Bill Simmons
Appearances
Plain English with Derek Thompson
How Gen Z Sees the World
Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
How Gen Z Sees the World
Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
How AI Could Change the Future of Music
Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
How AI Could Change the Future of Music
Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify. White Lotus, let's go.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
ABUNDANCE! With Ezra Klein
Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
ABUNDANCE! With Ezra Klein
Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
The End of Reading
Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
The End of Reading
Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify. White Lotus, let's go.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
Can a Vaccine Cure the World’s Deadliest Cancer?
Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.
Plain English with Derek Thompson
Can a Vaccine Cure the World’s Deadliest Cancer?
Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify. White Lotus, let's go.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Coming up, second pot of the weekend. Let's talk more Luka. Let's talk Super Bowl props next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I think you're right. We have seen it. Um, so bonus playing with those guys is a fun wrinkle. I mean, the Ray kind of sophisticated offensive coach could probably have fun with this team. I'm not sure Doug Christie's our guy for that. Um, and if I'm a Sacramento fan, um, I'm just bummed. I'm bummed that we didn't get the Atlanta pick. I'm bummed I didn't get at least three firsts.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I'm bummed I didn't at least get, I don't know, Sohan back, something. Could we have turned Keegan Murray into Devin Vassell? Makes the Spurs, they just didn't get any of it. And then from the Chicago side, this is the Reinsdorf middle. That's what they call it. can we be between 36 and 44 wins every year? Can we have the illusion of hope? I think in their case, like that team's not a contender.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I wanted to see, but zealous play more. I actually like him. Yeah.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
They had to carve out some, uh, some minutes for him. They got their first round pick back. I would assume the next move is Vucevic.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Being traded somewhere. Um, Maybe they moved Josh Giddey. I don't know. But it would seem like this is a move toward let's now finish in the bottom 10 in the league and try to get another good pick, right?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
So when you say a lot to be desired, you mean because he doesn't play defense?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
You're being kind. I like, I like how you are cutting guys down sometimes in the like nicest possible way. Yeah. He leaves a little to be desired. Like, is he a guy you could maybe score 70 points against in the reg? Yes, he is. Uh, anyway, Chicago. Now we can add them to the whole, uh, to the, to the capture the flag sweepstakes, try to get in there.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Um, last thing I'll say, and then we can move on to the Luca trade. Cause I'm really, I really have other stuff I want to say about Luca and everything that happened. This interesting moment for Darren Fox, uh, We see these guys call their shot, right? These guys that push them, push their way to another team.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
They're usually about half a level higher than Darren Fox, or they have some sort of playoff pedigree, like in Jimmy Butler's case. In this case, he doesn't have it. I think he's a player we've all thought was really talented. He's about to hit his late twenties. We've seen him in the playoffs. You know, he didn't leap out in any great way.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Don't forget, Super Bowl 59 is happening. It's all happening on FanDuel too. You can opt in and bet on a player to score an anytime touchdown. If they score the first touchdown of the game, they win their anytime TD bet and split 2.5 million in bonus bets with everyone else who used their token on that player.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
It's not like some Anthony Davis, that one year in the playoffs when he just laid waste to the Blazers. He doesn't have any of that. And I think we all think he's really good, but now this spotlight is completely different. You're playing in Sacramento. You're buried. You're just another team in the West with all these famous players and teams.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Now you're playing with the most famous international player that this league's going to have. It's a different level of scrutiny and everything.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
You know, when he's a crunch time guy for them, too, would be the other piece.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Crunch time. Fox, Castle, Vassell, maybe Sohan, Wemby. It's a pretty good defensive team. It's not going to make a lot of threes. There are going to be some bad shots. But defensively, that's a pretty interesting team. And you'd probably, I guess, target Fox and go after him and try to put him in pick and rolls. But other than that, those are all guys that I think would be in pretty good shape.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
So if you use it on like AJ Brown scores first touchdown of the game, 10,000 people use their token on AJ Brown. Each customer gets... I don't know, $250 in bonus bets. That's how it would play out. If the player scores the last TD of the game, the customer wins their anytime TD bet and splits the 2.5 million in bonus bets with everyone else who used their token.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Anyway, interesting trade. Anytime you can get San Antonio, Sacramento, and the Mediocre Bulls together for a three-teamer, you just thank your lucky stars. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. And we're going to talk about Luka. Day two. The FanDuel Kick of Destiny is back, and this time it's every Manning for himself. This Super Bowl, two legends taking the field.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
It's a sudden death field goal showdown. Peyton versus Eli, live from New Orleans. One kick, two claim. Ultimate family bragging rights. Bigger than the Super Bowl, honestly. Who will rise to the moment? Pick your winner now in the FanDuel app. And if you back the right brother, you earn a share of $10 million in bonus bets. The FanDuel Kick of Destiny 3. Make your free pick.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Don't forget to tune in to watch the showdown live during the Super Bowl 59 pregame show on Fox at 3 p.m. Eastern. made the best Manning win. FanDuel, official partner of Super Bowl 59. You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. No purchase necessary. Bonus issue does not withdraw the bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Avoid or prohibited seat terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Give them a problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, Kurt Goldsberry, you're sitting home on a Saturday night.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Luka Doncic is being traded to the Lakers. What's your immediate reaction?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Yeah, put Reeves in it. Put Reeves in the 2031 first in a swap and then I might think this happened.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I don't even think, I was saying it last night to Russell Mahoney, just we're reacting in the moment. I had some time to sit with it. I'm like, this is definitely the craziest NBA trade. There's never been anything like this. There's never been an inkling. I'm going to walk you through. I came up with the six levels of massive NBA trades.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
On that player, you are going to hear Cousin Sal and I talking about all of our favorite Super Bowl props. So we're going to hit this one specifically as well. My favorite anytime TV pick, a whole bunch of other stuff that's coming up in a second. Be sure to check out FanDuel's Super Bowl touchdown jackpot and all the ringer specials. Just look for it in the FanDuel Sportsbook app.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And I'm using mostly the 21st century trades as a litmus test because I was really trying to figure out, has there been a crazier trade than this? Level one, big deal, but we definitely had an inkling. So that's like Iverson to Denver, Carmelo to the Knicks, Chris Paul to the Clippers, even Kevin Love to the Cavs.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Big deal, but we knew we had a feeling and it wasn't like massive and we weren't going to be telling our grandkids where we heard the news. Kyrie to Boston, et cetera, et cetera. Level two, big deal, immediately one-sided and stupid. So it's a trade, you maybe add an inkling, but then you see and you're like, wait, what? That's all they got?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
So that's like Vince Carter to the Jersey, T-Mac to the Rockets, Joe Johnson to the Hawks, Harden to Houston's a great one for this. Gobert to the T-Wolves, they're like, wait, what? What happened? That's level two. Level three is the big deal out of nowhere that you feel like something tilted. That's Jason kid for Stefan Marbury in 2001.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
It's like, Whoa, those guys might be the two best point guards in the league. They just traded them for each other. Uh, Gasol to the Lakers, Darren Williams to Utah, where he had a feeling wasn't going great there. And all of a sudden they're trading them for Derek favors and two firsts. And it was like, Whoa. But then we move into this next level, level four, uh,
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
The mega deal, but we knew something was coming. So that's like Shaq to Miami. That's KG to the Celtics. That's Anthony Davis to the Lakers. Harden to the Nets. Durant to the Suns. We had a feeling. We knew, but it was still like, holy shit, that's a monster trade. Then you go to level five, the mega deal out of nowhere. This is where it gets pretty rare. That's Paul George to the Clippers.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
We know Kawhi's picking back and forth between Lakers, Clippers the whole week. We don't see the Paul George piece. Now, all of a sudden, they're on the same team. They're trading Shea Gilgis, Alexander, Danilo Gallinari, four firsts, two swaps, and another protected pick. And we're just like, what happened?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And I think that was the biggest shocking trade, at least this century, until we get to level six last night. What the fuck just happened? Did the reporter get hacked? It's never happened before. This is the first did the reporter get hacked mega trade. So you go backwards to the seventies, eighties, like will to the Lakers cream to the Lakers.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
They, every time we had a feeling, maybe somebody that a guy was available, but you talked to a bunch of NBA teams. Had you heard Luca was available? It was even conceivable. Hell no.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Like, well, so a good way to, somebody sent this to me that Bob McAdoo is the only real comparison we can ever do, who was around the same age range. He'd won the MVP twice and, All NBA guy. And it's the only one that's even in the ballpark of, from a talent resume standpoint already. But in that case, they were trying to save money and they basically sold them to Nick's.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
It's like Moses Malone, but that, but those like, we knew those guys were getting traded. Those guys were like trading or I'm going to do free agency. Moses Malone signed with Philly and they had to then come up with a deal. So that's like the caliber of dudes. Davis is another one in 2019 with the Lakers.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
So remember, Sal and I come in later with our annual Super Bowl props. We did not expect that to be The second segment on this podcast, because I'm bringing in Kurt Goldsberry, there's just some extra stuff since that trade happened last night. You know, we're reacting to that trade in real time. Now it's Sunday afternoon. PT.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Not like this where the guy didn't know he was getting traded. This has never happened.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Yeah, and people I've talked to, reading stuff, hearing stuff, it really seems like this starts in the finals last year when Boston kicks their ass and Luka's defense is a problem. And I think Kidd, was just like, we're never going to win the title unless this guy takes it a little more seriously on the other end and gets into better shape.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
So that's something they're talking about internally all the time. Comes into this season, still not in awesome shape, gets hurt, gets hurt again. And you have Polenka Nico Harrison who had this whole crazy long relationship together. Like these were two, two of the guys that Kobe was the closest to. So they've known each other like from the height of the Kobe era.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And, uh, they just start talking and the reporting all said they started talking in the beginning of January and they've been talking ever since. And I think it's a masterful job by Polinka to convince Nico not to shop them. Now, if you're going to be fair to Nico, uh, They're going to trade Luca. They know what they wanted. They wanted a big guy.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
There's no other big guy that they could have traded him for, right? So if you're going to make calls, you're calling Milwaukee for Giannis and you're calling Boston for Tatum. So when people talk about how do you not shop them around, they feel like, like Nico said in the press conference, whether you agree with it or not, They felt like they have a team that has a chance to win the title.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
They wanted to add somebody who could help them win the title this year. So that rules out basically everyone in the league and brings you to Tatum and Giannis. And they didn't call Boston. They didn't call Milwaukee. Now, if they called Milwaukee and said, do you have any interest in trading for Giannis? Or do you have any interest in trading Giannis?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And Milwaukee said, I mean, the only way we'd ever even consider doing that is if Luca was on the table. And then Nico goes, well, hold on. What are you thinking? And then you kind of stumble into it, but they didn't make the calls.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And we've learned a lot, we've read a lot, we've heard a lot, we've talked to some people, and we're gonna lay down a second set of thoughts a day removed from the most shocking trade, I think, in NBA history. So, Kurt Goldsberry next, then Cousin Sal doing Super Bowl props first. Once again, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Kirk Goldsberry is here.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And Nico said, we felt like we were heading toward a tumultuous summer that we couldn't avoid. So we're trying to get out of this now, which leads me to believe they, maybe they were split internally and paying him.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I was talking to my wife about it last night after we did the podcast. And she was just like, I don't understand why they traded Luca. Wasn't he in the finals? Like she knows nothing. She doesn't care. And I was like, yeah, they just, uh, you know, they just felt like, I guess they didn't want to pay him. I still don't know anything.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And she, and she goes, well, did they, did they try to trade them to other teams? Was that the best trade? And I was like, no, they just had one team. And she's like, that's weird, right? Like she was just like, I was trying to explain it to her. Like she was like a little kid in elementary school. It's like, yeah, usually when you're shopping, tell the other teams.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And then one of the funniest things I got this morning was one of my friends was like, Dallas is the team in your fantasy league that they just trade and you fucking lose your mind. And everyone's on email threads arguing about it because they can't believe they wasn't shopped. And that's basically what Dallas did here.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
A couple of kickers though, with this, that makes me wonder if maybe the general public has completely overrated the talent in this trade or were, or these two teams are just insane. Dallas put in a second round pick. So we're sitting there going, how is Max Christie in this trade instead of Austin Reeves? How is their 2031 first not in there? Why wasn't there like three years of swaps?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And as Rosilla made the joke last night, which was great, about Poenka like holding firm on the 31 pick, like the deal was going to go away. It was even crazier than that. He's like, not on my own firm. Give me a second round pick. And he got it. So that's how bad the Mavs, A, wanted to get rid of Luka, I guess. And B wanted Anthony Davis.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Well, so the thing with Polenka... I've just been marveling at... He's like a... It's like a character out of a succession or something. He is over and over again, figured out how to blame whoever was coaching the Lakers for whatever was wrong with them over any of his moves, right? The Westbrook trade, like you could point all these different things at point, but he always survives.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And then he somehow Jedi mind tricks, Nico Harrison with this Davis thing and talks to him for three weeks, convinces him not to shop them anywhere else. No, no. If you're going to trade Luca, like, It has to be for Davis. Who else in the league would it be? You have to get an all defensive center back. Like you're going to shop them like Milwaukee. Luca is not going to go to Milwaukee.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Like Milwaukee is not going to trade Giannis for him because Luca is never going to sign there. They know that Boston loves Tatum. They're not turning Tatum in a Luca. They love Tatum. That's their guy. Like, so now it's like bam out of bio. Like you can't trade Luca for bam out of bio. It's gotta be Anthony Davis. So he's just like, like kind of tilting it so that Niko's like, yeah, you're right.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
They want a tough defensive team, right? So they're thinking we can run our offense through Kyrie and AD. We have a bunch of shooters and tough defenders, and we could actually hang in the West in a real way if those two guys are healthy. necessarily be wrong, but it doesn't mean they should trade Luka Dacic. I think they're going to be pretty good this year.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
No, they're going to have real size with the two centers and Davis. They have wings that can play D. They have Kyrie, who's a crunch time guy. This is a pretty big offensive burden for him, but I can see how you talk to yourself into this, except for the part that you're giving up a generational talent who's having one of the first seven years of his career.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
There's only four other guys in the history of the league. Wilt, LeBron, Um, who are the other two? Will LeBron, uh, Kareem magic. No, there's one other one, but anyway, that are on this. Oh, Oscar Robertson that have the first seven years that Luca had in the history of the league. We're talking almost 80 years.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
We are taping this a little before 6 o'clock PT on Sunday night. I invited Kirk to talk about day two of the Luka Doncic Lakers trade because we covered it last night. A whole bunch more to discuss. More meat on the bone. But as we're preparing to do the pod, of course, there was another major trade. That included a team Kirk used to work for, the San Antonio Spurs.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
It's crazy. Stephen Curry took him three years to even become Stephen Curry, right? Luca immediately. And he made Western finals and finals. So I'm going to run through a couple of things I'm going to throw at you. just from reading, listening, talking to people, a couple of the narratives that didn't pass the sniff test for me are just things that I didn't hate yesterday that I wanted to.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
The first one, AD and LeBron and Clutch being blindsided by this trade, having no idea that it was in the works, finding out like we all did after the fact. As you know, I'm a conspiracy guy. I'm a sniff test guy. This has not passed the sniff test for me for this reason. buried in all of this stuff was Anthony Davis waved his trade kicker to go to Dallas. Yep. And he did it pretty quickly.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
So you have Anthony Davis blindsided by the trade who loves Los Angeles, who's in his little clutch triangle with LeBron and Rich Paul and out of nowhere gets traded to Dallas and he's so upset about it. that he decides to forgo $5.9 million and waive his trade kicker, money he's entitled to. And he's like, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. Forget it. I want to help you guys out.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
It just doesn't pass the sniff test for me. LeBron James, same thing. LeBron, you would think he would take this so personally. You trade my guy. This is my hand-pointed sidekick. you got to trade me now. Quietly today, it's like, nah, he's going to be here after the trade deadline. And then Clutch, same thing. Shams has a relationship with Clutch. Shams gets the scoop.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I just think they knew before the trade and I wouldn't bet my life on it, but that would be my bet.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And seems kind of fired up to go to Dallas, which this is why I wanted to do a second day pod. Raises a bunch of questions for me. It's like, you seem pretty pumped about this.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
You're not sticking them with the trade kicker and you seem like you like where you're going and you have this long relationship with Nico Harrison and you're getting away from the Lakers and maybe you feel like you're selling high in your Laker experience. You won a title. LeBron's 40 years old. eh, new challenge, Dallas, maybe I'll be the guy there in Texas.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Just seems like if he was pissed about it, you're making them pay the 5.9, and he didn't.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Right, that they had to throw in a second-round pick from Dallas' side just to get this done.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And then if LeBron was truly blindsided by this, just from his, let's say, some passive-aggressive behavior over the years from him with roster moves and lack of moves. And he just seems pretty fine with the events, at least so far. It's 6.30 now on a Sunday night. We haven't seen him
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Fox to the Spurs, Levine to Sacramento with some picks. Chicago basically gets their 2025 pick back and takes some contracts. And the headline, Kirk, is that San Antonio did not give up a lot for De'Aaron Fox. So why?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
really leak anything, say anything, and just seems okay because he's smart, because he gets to play Luka Doncic, and now there's this scenario where, hey, Luka, let me teach you some diet stuff. Hey, Luka, this is called a VersaClimber. What do you think of this thing? Hey, Luca, I see you're wearing about 265 right now. Do you realize if you weigh 250, this, this, this, this, this will happen.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Hey, Luca, here's why you keep hurting your calf. You're not doing like Luca basically inherits the greatest personal trainer in the history of the league. LeBron doesn't get hurt.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I think this is the scary thing of the tradesman. This is what my dad said today. He's like, I don't want Luke on the Lakers for a million reasons, but what if he figures it out?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I'm going to get in the craziest shape of my life. I remember for page two in 2004, when Shaq got traded, I wrote a column called the vengeance scale. And I ranked the vengeance scale from zero to a hundred. Cause I thought like, I was like Shaq, at least for the next couple of years is going to get in shape and dedicate his life to trying to win a title and stick this up the Lakers ass.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And he eventually did. Wade got hurt in 05. He did in 06. I think Luca, the competitive guy, he's both like crazy competitive, but also frustratingly competitive because if he was that competitive, he would be in better shape.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
But I think he's competitive enough that when somebody trades you, you're just going to be pissed when you're playing for the Lakers in LA and this incredible franchise and you get, you know, bathed in love from all that. You see the 77 jerseys, all that stuff. Um, it has a chance to really ignite them. And that would be the thing. I mean, I feel so bad for the Mavs fans.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I've talked to a couple of them today. Like they're just so devastated. They just can't believe this. And if I'm Mavs in the worst part of this trade is what happens if we lose in round two and Luca just goes on a heater for the next like eight years. And we're like, we fucking lost Jalen Brunson and Luca Donchic. And I was on a thread with some Red Sox fans.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
We were arguing about the Mookie Betts trade versus the Luka trade. And Luka, I think, is a more important asset because there's four untradeable NBA guys every year. In baseball, there's 25 guys on a team. But Mookie was our Luka, basically. And we'd actually won a title with him. And he really was a unique, amazing top five, top eight player. And we got, we didn't get Anthony Davis for him.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I'll just tell you that we got, we got Connor Wong and Jeter Downs and Alex Verdugo. And we got rid of David Price's contract. That was a trade. And it made me not like baseball. Like I don't really watch the Red Sox in the same way anymore. So for the Mavs fans, like I know some Mavs fans, like Jason Gallagher, who we used to work with, like he's,
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
He's talking about like his son is like, I'm following Luca to the Lakers. It's like a lifelong Babs fan. It's like, now I am a Laker fan. This is like that whole fucked up side of this is crazy.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
They were going to the arena with props. Somebody brought a coffin. They were having a protest. Somebody brought a coffin to say goodbye to the Mavs. It was like 30 threads of just visceral pain, dude. Well, and there's also some incredible conspiracy stuff already. I mean, God only knows what's true, half true, 10% true, but...
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I love this one that the owners have always wanted the Vegas team and their eventual goal is to basically flip franchises, move Dallas to Vegas so they can have their old casino thing. The expansion team that was going to go in Vegas would be the Dallas team. They'd pay whatever.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And the first way to do this was to be basically to torpedo the Mavericks franchise relationship with their fans by trading Luka Doncic. And it's like, I have no notes. That's one of the best conspiracy theories I've ever heard.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Okay, so why didn't they give up more picks to get Darren Fox, who I had number 20 on my trade value list?
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
That's what my dad said. I mean, the father of conspiracy bill, conspiracy bill senior, was like, this just feels like the Lakers were about to die and they had to put another star on their team. Because my dad was like, how does this team... keep pulling this off. Like all the Celtic fans were just getting pissed about this today because this is the team we hate the most.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
And it's just like, this team just steps in shit They're born on third base in the ultimate way. They fuck up the entire 2010s, the entire 2010s. Even like they take Lonzo Ball over Tatum. Like you can point to a million things. And it all leads to LeBron being like, yeah, you know what? I really want to live in LA. And they just miraculously land LeBron.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Then they have this clutch alliance where like, we're putting Anthony Davis on the Lakers. Nobody else trade for him. The Celtics are like, here are all these picks and we'll trade you Jalen Brown. They're like, nope. He's got to go to the Lakers. So now they get Davis and LeBron together.
Renewing Your Mind
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And then they get six years out of Davis and turn him into Luka Doncic, the best generational offensive prospect slash star slash heading into his prime guy since LeBron.
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Yeah, you could do an all-time nine-man rotation of NBA 75 guys that they've traded for or signed in for agency. Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Kobe, because they traded for Kobe. Gasol, Dwight, LeBron, AD, Luka. Those guys are all top 75 guys that they acquired.
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For us, the Celtics would be Robert Parrish and KG, I think would be the two best. And that's in 80 years, unless you count the Bill Russell trade because they flip draft picks. But yeah, it's really rare.
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Yeah, and then the flip side for the Mavs, this is, I mentioned the Mookie Betts trade. This is Edmonton trading Gretzky in 1988, which we did a 30 for 30. That was actually the first 30 for 30 ever. But Gretzky had already won titles for them. The whole point is Luka had not won the title for them yet. He had the promise of, oh my God, we have this guy for the next 20 years.
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Then we have the other weird piece, Kirk, about the Lakers who are playing well. They still have to do the trade. But the irony of them doing the trade right now was they had just started to look like a contender and they had an identity and they were big and physical and they'd figured out some of the spacing. Christie and Finney Smith were both playing well at wings.
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So they finally had competent wings they could put out there. So that was part of the trade last night was the timing of it was like, I just watched this team and they look really good. And now they just made the most shocking trade in the history of the league. Um, So a defense of the Luca trade from Dallas aside, I just want to do this as a thought exercise.
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So they kept Wemby, Fox. They added Vassell, Castle, who I think was a non-starter. Sohan, Harrison Barnes, Kelton Johnson, CP3, Champagny. Yeah. Pretty nice nine. Now CP3 coming off the bench. Maybe you play him with Fox. We've seen CP3 in OKC. He was playing with Schroeder and with SGA. Like he weirdly knows how to play with other small guards.
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If you're trying to zag, what's the defense? If you're like, you know what? Nico Harrison has figured this out and he's going to fucking show you that this trade was really smart. What's the defense?
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All right, I'll add to the defense. Anthony Davis anchored a finals team in 2020 that won it all. Defense wins championships. No defense stars don't win titles. Go find me one. I've seen a lot of no defense superstars take teams to round three, maybe even round four, but they don't win. How do we know he was signing here in 2026? We don't know. Got to get out early.
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The way to do this is to do it now. And we feel like we can get a lot of value. And then AD was the only guy we wanted. Luka was never going to Milwaukee. Boston went to Tatum. Bam's not good enough. KD's too old. Edwards makes no sense for either side. Jalen Brunson, no. So where are we shopping him to? We're going to trade him for a bunch of picks. Like we didn't want to do that.
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We feel like our team's good. I think that's the defense and it's moronic.
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They're so mad, they'd probably boo the finals trophy ceremony. Throwing their Luka Doncic jerseys at it.
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They still need one more trade. I think they need a little, somebody a little more, uh, heat checky who can create their own shot and they still have time to do it. Cause they have some contracts.
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I forget. So Rudy just texted us that, uh, the Warriors, Jimmy Butler trade talks have finally ended because the Warriors did not want to, uh, commit to an extension. And Jimmy Butler said, this is, uh, who reported this already? It was, uh, Wendy. Oh, Wendy reported. Yeah. So there you go.
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Um, yeah, I was thinking about the one thing we didn't talk about yesterday because we were so dumb, dumbfounded by the trade. Are there moves for the Lakers to, this year to become an interesting playoff team, because I'm positive.
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I, if LeBron is playing like he did last night and he can just stay somewhat, uh, healthy and fresh for a couple of rounds, that's not a team I want to see in round one or round two, then Luca with him. And you just have these two freaky physical six foot eight, six foot nine guys who don't really have a position who can, who both have crazy hoops IQs.
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And then if you can put the right team around them, which they're, inching closer to having, except they don't have any rent protection at all. And could they go get Nick Claxton was a rumor today. Could they take a flyer and Robert Williams? Could they get Clint Capella with the Hawks want to trade a Congo for, for the 2031 pick, which put Austin Reeves on the table. What could you get for him?
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If I'm a Spurs fan, I'm out of my mind that this was the trade because they gave up the 27 Spurs first. I don't care. I have Wemby. I'm going to be one of the best 10 teams in the league in 27. They gave up the 2031 Minnesota first. which hurts. That might be a real pick.
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You need him. House and I were talking about this today. You need him as your six-man injury protection for one of those two guys. Somebody who's 25 minutes a game. You always have to... you know, obviously the other two guys are way better offensively, but you always have two really good creators and Reese is turning into a pretty good creator, um, at all times.
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So could you, could you turn like Gabe Vincent, 2031, something else until like Nick Claxton.
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Here's the thing. They should think that way. And I didn't think they had a chance to win four straight rounds with the team they had because it was putting too much... LeBron looked good against the Knicks. He was awesome against the Knicks. To ask somebody to do that for 10 straight weeks, to me at age 40, is not realistic.
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But now they have a guy who can... We've already seen him single-handedly beat teams in a series who's now going to be pissed off trying to shove it up somebody's ass. So if I'm the Lakers, I feel like I could win the win three rounds now.
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I feel like we're going against OKC and it's like, we have LeBron and Luka and you guys are small and we're going to just try to bully ball you and you can, you know, do whatever, but you, we're still going to be a bitch to play. I can't believe I'm saying this, but like they have the six best, they were 21 to one last night. Now they're 18 to one.
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Some people are betting them, which is not surprising. But if they get a rim protector and they can play LeBron and Luka with some sort of shooting point guard, Finney Smith and the rim protector at crunch time with Reeves coming off the bench and some other pieces, I wouldn't want to see him in a series.
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Well, they have the miracle of Palenka keeping Reeves and the 2031 pick. So they, I mean, they go get that and that almost could be part of the trade, right?
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They got this, they gave up this 2025 Charlotte pick that is basically one through 14 protected and it's going to turn into two seconds. And Sacramento gets two first five seconds and they get Zach Levine, who I think we both really liked this year. I actually think he's an asset.
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Yeah, it's... I think he stays. It's a better career move. And I think he likes LA, right? You get traded. Your son has to come with you. That's weird. Going to Golden State. What ultimately are you going to happen? You get to play with Curry. It's an older team. You have a better chance of winning the title with the team you have now.
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If he's all about titles and like an unbelievable out of nowhere title run, which still dubious, but you go through all these teams and all right, they're playing Houston in round one. Are you going against Luca pissed off with LeBron as his sidekick? against like Fred Van Vliet?
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Well, they're going to be in a situation where they're going to have to sign Luka this summer and LeBron's going to opt into his deal. So they basically have one chance to align all the money because they're going to get crushed next year no matter what happens. But they're the Lakers and they shouldn't care because all of a sudden they have...
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this meal ticket of LeBron was about to end with the season tickets, the suites, everything else. You had the Clippers in their new arena, which is awesome. They, Lakers playing in the shitty Staples Center. And now it's like, now it's, now here's, come see Luka Doncic.
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And it's a guy that, you know, there's always been a weird thing with LeBron and the Laker fans because it's right after Kobe and there's this whole Kobe contingent. Luka had this awesome early relationship with Kobe and I could just see them being all in on adopting him.
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And also, he won't be the first guy to move to California and immediately lose 20 pounds and look awesome and be tan and get in shape. It's happened many times. This is what happens when you come out here. Perfect place for it.
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It's a born out third base team. It's frustrating itself. The thing with the Lakers though, they do have really good fans. I got to hand it to them. And they have an expectation. it's annoying that it's always going to somehow work out. Right. Even if they're in the 2010s, they kept ending up with these picks and it was a mess. And Kobe's last two years weren't great.
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And it was always like, we're the Lakers. This is going to work out. The Celtics used to have that in the eighties and nineties. It's like, well, now it'll work out. And then all of a sudden it didn't work out forever. And I was always like, just wait with this Lakers thing. When LeBron leaves, just wait. And now they had a Luka Dacic.
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The NBA doesn't allow it to do that. Kirk. Teams aren't allowed to talk to players from other teams. That doesn't happen.
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Dude, people don't leave the Lakers. Once you're here and you're on the Lakers and they're spending money and you're in the sunshine, you don't... Guys have not left the Lakers. Great players, they stay. That's what happens.
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I feel like I'm going to throw up. Right now, they're a five seed. They are tied with Denver in losses for the four seed, and they're only three back from Memphis. I think they have to get in the top half of that top four, right? So they can have at least one home series. I'm just, I'm all in on Luca. I completely believe in him as a terrifying offensive force.
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Vooch has to be feeling left out. Come on, guys. We could have gone 43 and 39 together. Why am I still in Chicago?
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And I think he needed a kick in the ass like this. I'm all in on him. Like, I feel like they can make the finals. I don't think it's crazy. We watched him do it last year. And he owns Oklahoma City.
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That's the one team they have to beat. And he plays great against them. And even this year, he had a good game against them. But, you know, and then you take a team like Denver. How do you beat a team like Denver with two really gifted offensive players? You know, and then there's the LeBron piece, too.
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This is like an amazing out of nowhere, you know, life raft for a chance to get another title and rewrite some of his shit.
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Well, that was the thing last night in the Knicks game. Physically... he was so impactful compared to everyone on the Knicks. It just didn't feel like they had a big enough athlete to handle him. And LeBron hasn't felt like that in a while. It really feels like maybe he knew that Luka trade was coming and that's why he was playing with a little, a little pep in his step.
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But, um, I just think those guys are going to be really hard to play. There's a flip side of this where, uh, Those two are a disaster on defense. You can't play the two of them with Reeves together. JJ, who is now realizing the weight of, holy shit, I took this Lakers job and now we have Luka Doncic. He's like, his hair's fucking falling out by April.
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When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.
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They aren't able to get the right rim protector. I would say it's 65-35 for me. that they could actually be an incredibly dangerous playoff team versus... But I was surprised with the people I talked to today. People kind of weren't seeing the immediate title picture. I think Luka, as long as he's healthy, he has to be... It's like Jokic.
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It's like when Denver looked like shit in the start of the season and we were all worried about them. It's like, well, they still have Jokic. I'm not counting them out yet.
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Well, I would say the Clippers... from a defensive roster standpoint, are actually built the best to kind of battle this team, which means maybe we'll finally get the Clippers-Lakers series we've been waiting for forever. But yeah, I just think in a series, it's going to be really hard to match baskets with them if Luka's right. And I don't know why he wouldn't be right.
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He was averaging 28 a game, by the way. I know he's having his worst statistical year, but... Yeah, this is an amazing turn of events.
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No foul today for them, though. Yeah. Yeah. Clippers versus Lakers. We could see it. Amazing trade. Congrats to the Spurs for getting Fox as well. I don't know. We have four days until the trade deadline, Kirk. I don't know what else to expect. We don't know where Jimmy Butler's going. There's still... What other things should we be watching? Jimmy Butler.
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Miami, God only knows what they're up to. Are Memphis and Houston going to feel like they should do something, which would be great for the Lakers if they didn't. Is Cleveland going to tinker with anything at all? Vucevic is another one. Can the Suns get up there and just deal with a pick and try to get a better rim protector?
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And can Milwaukee figure out anything? Would be my other question. Are they just stuck with the team they have?
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I was texting somebody about that today saying Cuban's got to be disconsolate. Because first of all, he trades the Mavs or sells the Mavs as the franchises are going up. He seems like he had a feeling like he might be involved. He's not. And then Luca, this is hand-picked like... if they win the title, he gets to take credit for that forever. Now they trade them.
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Kirk Goldsberry. Great to see you looking forward to your next piece. Um, and we'll see you in, uh, we'll see in Austin in a few weeks.
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Can't wait. Big live show coming. Um, good to see you. Thank you. Thank you, brother. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors.
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Paul versus Peter
All right, we're taping this on a Sunday afternoon. Sal, you hate this. It's Super Bowl week. It's supposed to be all NFL. And then the NBA holes come flying in with the most shocking trade in NBA history. And now you got to take a seat on the side.
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Yeah, what if we put Luka and LeBron on the same team? Will anyone complain about the ratings again?
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It really is true. Now, at this point, the only person I would refuse to believe got traded is Wemby. Yeah. I think everyone else in the league, you could talk me into a trade in a ridiculous scenario involving any player. Super Bowl, Chiefs-Eagles. We've had a week to either think about it or not think about it. There are a ton of props. Fando has amazing pages and pages of... Great stuff.
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Great links. We're going to have ringer specials on there later. Ringer Sunday pregame is going to have some stuff like we're we're good. Do you have a feel for the Super Bowl yet? And has it affected your Super Bowl props? The things that you think will happen in the game? Are you steering that way already?
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Yeah, and they still have a bunch of picks. They have the two, three, four spots, a lot of length, some potential shooting, although they haven't been shooting the ball this year, but ultimately you're hoping there's going to be some shooting. And they protected their nucleus and they still have another trade to make.
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I think about that all the time, how when I'm finally dead, how mad I'm going to be, not just that I'm dead, but I'm not going to know what's going to happen for the next 25 Super Bowls, NBA. It's like, oh, shit. Yeah. My lean is close game. I have two leans so far, and I'm still debating where to go with the game and probably will decide on Tuesday. But it feels like the line is off.
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and it feels like it's going to be a close game. Those are my two leans. I actually think the Eagles should be favored the more I stare at this. And I don't know what the Mahomes tax is at this point, but it feels like it's a field goal.
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Right, then the Chiefs should win the fourth game of a close game. I guess more like I don't think it's going to be a blowout. Like I don't think either of these teams is blowing out the other team. Could one of them win by 10 points, 12? Sure. But it feels like it's going to be a relatively close game, no blowout.
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I still feel like the only, the only like no way they're trading these guys on the Spurs would be Wemby now Fox and castle. And everyone else is still in play for me. And they have contracts they can put together. They're not going to trade for Jimmy Butler, but if you know, he was a little more enticing, that's the type of trade.
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And I just think the Eagles should be favored by like two and a half on a neutral field. They have more good players all over the place. They have an easier way to win than the Chiefs do. And you go back and you look at, as great as the Chiefs were, the fact that they were 17-2, week 18, they're basically 17-1, you throw every week 18. But...
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It just was harder for them week to week than when you watch this Eagles team just seems to be really crude. I mean, the Eagles have won 15 of the last 16 pretty easily.
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I'm leaning toward the Eagles and I'm just afraid to go against my homes, which is why the line is where the line is. That's why that's the whole point of this line is nobody wants to bet against the Chiefs. I wouldn't look into the line to him.
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It's a great wrinkle for him. Yeah. All right. But the Memphis GM.
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That's a playoff manifesto staple, especially at this time. You're just betting who you think is going to win. Don't worry about the line.
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Well, it matters for teasers and stuff. Yeah. You can get Philly above seven. Pretty tasty. All right. So every year, and we've been doing this forever, I actually researched this. We were the first people, the first two people ever to like Super Bowl props. Yo, you researched it, really? In the media, yeah. We were the first ones. I don't think a lot of people... Good.
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Nobody ever talked about Super Bowl props. That's true. We felt like we were really going on a limb. We did a pod, maybe the 2007 Super Bowl, and we floated some props, and everybody in the world was like, what are these? What are these guys talking about? No, all these years later, it's a cottage industry. I don't feel like we get the credit.
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There'd never been a Super Bowl prop before we did a podcast. I love it.
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That's actually not true, obviously. And the first time we watched the Super Bowl together... when it was the first day Jimmy Kimmel was doing a show and we were in charge of monitoring the Tampa Bay Oakland game. Right. And coming up with jokes. And we were in a van and you had this whole printout sheet of Super Bowl props that was like 58 pages.
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And we're just going through and there would be silence. Like, hey, Simmons. What about Rich Gannon over under completions? And that was just the whole ride. So we've loved this forever.
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Uh, maybe they could trade for Luca Donchic if he fails his physical and the Lakers. And it turns out he's 290 pounds. Um, but, uh, But this is an awesome trade for them. In my head, this was a four or five firsts and probably Sohan or Vassell in it. Seemed like that was it. But I guess if you're the Spurs, you're like, look, man, we're not giving up a lot for this dude.
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Yeah, because all the HTML would be off. It would be like the margins would be too small. You'd have like these little crazy, beautiful mind notes on each page. Now we just go to FanDuel and there's all these hyperlinks. Beautifully separated. It's great. Can we start with MVP? Because there's a couple. Mahomes is plus 110. Barkley's plus 280. Hertz is plus 370.
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And the most interesting one was the field versus Mahomes is minus 150. And we always look at this and we always like it. But if you think KC's not going to win... this feels like a fun MVP bet because you basically get everybody else. Yeah, that's true. I don't know if you could parlay it with other stuff.
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Or Xavier Worthy, like eight for 120. There's that like Julian Edelman type of game that's sitting there. There's like the big Kelsey game. I don't know if any, the way they use their running backs, I don't see how either running back would be in it. Right. So you're looking at a crazy worthy game, a crazy Kelsey game or my home. So Casey wins plus one 10 is nice.
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The problem with taking the field versus Mahomes, I guess you get everyone on the Chiefs too with that minus 150. So it's a parlay of the Eagle side, which you could just bet straight up for plus 110, but then you're covered on every other non-Mahomes thing. But I think the best value is Barkley. At plus 280.
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Because I think if they win, I think he's going to be the best player in the game would be my assumption. Like he gashes them a couple of times. He's been the best part of the playoffs. It's a narrative that makes sense to me. And I thought the odds were pretty good. What would the Hurts game have to be for MVP? So he's throwing two touchdowns, probably one deep one. It's probably...
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Plus 280 is still good if it's close to three. The Barkley bets that jumped out So I've never monitored this, but there was a 25 plus rushing yards each quarter for plus 750. Yeah. That I've never bet on. And I have no idea if that's a good bet or not. It seems terrible. Two touchdowns is plus 280. So you'd have to, you'd probably have to break one of those. Then maybe get one around five or six.
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He wants to come here anyway. He's from Texas. We'll just get him in a year and a half. So we can do this now and you'll get some stuff or we'll just wait. We're on no rush. We're not going to win the title. Um, one thing Eddie Johnson said on my pod on Thursday, I thought was a great basketball ex basketball player point was about Fox as a lefty with Wemby as a righty versus boxes.
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I thought the odds were pretty good. There was one where him and Kareem hunt 200 plus rush yards is three to one. So you figure if he got over like 130, 140, if he thought Hunt was going to be in the 50s, 60s, that could get there. Three to one's nice. But I think the one I like the most is 169 plus rushing yards, which would be a new record. It's five to one. So you can just bet on that.
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And basically the bet is, I bet that Saquon Barkley will break the record. 169, boom, five to one.
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So you like that one the most? Do you have any other Barkley bets?
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Okay. Yeah. So I had the Barkley one. The Hurts stuff, there's an anytime TD for him for minus 115. And that's just one tush push, right? If it's first and goal from the two, third and goal from the one. I got to say, I was surprised that was the line. I thought that was going to be like minus 140. It's almost like surprising if he doesn't get one. That one jump out to you?
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I really like that. So Fando has, they have that anytime touchdown that like either first one or last one of the game that they're putting a pretty big thing on that you could get in. If it's an anytime TD bet and it ends up being the first touchdown in the game, you end up in this bonus bets pool. If it's the last touchdown of the game, same thing.
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Fox is a lefty with Sabonis as a lefty, which I thought was cool, but I liked the idea of Fox, you know, not great when players push their way out of a team, but you know, he gave him a heads up. I'm not going to resign here. He's been pretty clear about that for the whole season. He picks San Antonio.
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And I think Kurtz was my favorite anytime touchdown bet. I bet that goes up. I think that's going to be like minus 135 by game time. Two other things with him. Longest run was 11 and a half yards. And it feels like every game they have that one run where it's like the delayed QB draw and he's running to the right or the left and he just goes for like 30 yards.
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And I can't believe that wouldn't happen in this game once. So 11 and a half, I really liked. And then longest pass of the game for him, 32 and a half yards. So, and this ties into some, some AJ Brown stats too. But when you look at the Chiefs, so they gave up against Buffalo, they gave up a 34 yarder, a 24 yarder and 23 yarder against Houston. They give up a 34 yarder, a 24 yarder and 24 yarder.
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So they do give up big plays when you watch where it's like that bend, but don't break, but you can get the, you can bust one on them. So I was thinking, I like that one too. The, the just longest one, 33 yard pass to somebody, AJ Brown, Devonta Smith. Maybe it's got it. Maybe Barkley on a wheel route. Yeah. I think they'll bust one.
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What'd you feel about passing yards? There's two. There's 210.5 is the over-under for Hurts. You could go 175 plus passing yards for him as minus 310. I think they're too goofy. I almost feel like the total pass yards is a stay away for him because we've seen games where they just run the ball all the time. We've also seen games where they vary it out. It doesn't make sense to me.
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So out of those Barkley Hurts, what's your favorite one? I think I like the rush yard record for plus five to one on Barkley just for the hell of it. I like your two touchdowns and I like the anytime TD and the longest pass, longest run for Hurts. I feel like you at least split those.
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He picks this whole Wemby circus that will become a circus in a good way because you're attaching yourself to one of the generational superstars in the league. You fit in nicely with him. Now you throw those lobs at the righty, as Eddie was pointing out. And it just feels like an incredible career move for Fox. It really does. It's like, wow, I totally get what you're thinking here.
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You're just going to need some luck to push it over the top. Too bad you can't hedge that. AJ Brown, I didn't really have any stuff I like for him. Some of the stuff isn't out yet. That usually comes Wednesday, Thursday, like the completion bets and things like that. Right. But AJ Brown just seems hit or miss to me. I'm staying away. Any other Eagles bets that you're fired up about?
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Yeah. Minus one time. Yeah. Cause one of the ones, one of the bets that's not out yet is the missed field goal thing for him. Cause he's right. Always feels like he, uh, he has one at some point. All right. So on the chief side, some Mahomes bets that jumped out to me over 29 and a half rush yards, just too many times with his legs. Like if you look at the biggest games he's played, uh,
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The completions, I'm sorry, the carries are more exciting to me. Five and a half carries. Because you get that 29 and a half rush yards. Yep. You have the potential that Neal's not going to bat. The carries are the carries. That's minus 140, so there's some cheese.
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This year, he was 11 for 43 against Buffalo. He was seven for 14 against Houston, including the three Neals at the end. Uh, in 2023, nine for 66 against San Fran, six for 15 against Baltimore and six for 19 against Buffalo. So the last five times he's had six or more.
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And then if you look at the super bowls, the other super bowls, the Philly one, six for 44, the Tampa one, five for 33, San Francisco nine for 29. So the only time he didn't get five and a half out of you know, eight of the biggest games of his career and all the super bowls is that one Tampa game when he had five, not six.
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So to me over carries minus one 40, I'm putting the juice on, I'm doing it.
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So the other one, if you want to do a yardage bet, I would recommend the 40 plus rush yards for Mahomes. That's plus 180. And again, 43 against Buffalo, 66 against San Francisco, 44 against Philly. So he's done it a few times. You're basically getting two to one odds. But I think he's going to need to do it in this game because Philly's the way they're going to probably play defense in him.
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They have those four guys. They play everybody else back. They fake blitz. They do all these different things. But if you're just rushing those four, he can just slide out and over and over again, find these pockets. Yeah. Yeah. I like him with his legs in this game and he's healthy too. We know he's healthy. He's healthy.
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Mahomes under two and a half sacks. That's a good one. Cause if, if he's over two and a half sacks, Casey's probably not winning. Right. So Kareem hunt is somebody that really fascinates me. Hmm. Anytime touchdown for him is plus 135. He scored in the last four games. Two touchdowns for him is plus 950. And the reason I mention it is because Mahomes, they don't run sneaks with him.
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So unless Mahomes scores from like the four yard line or the seven, like when it's around the goal line, they go with running backs. His 50 plus yards is plus 115 for rushing. 70 plus yards is plus 320. Most rushing yards in a game, if you like KC, is 7-1 for Hunt. But I was looking back at, the Houston game. And then especially the Buffalo game, he was 17 for 64 in that Buffalo game.
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And they threw to him once Pacheco is five for 12. I think the Eagles are big. Pacheco is like a little guy. I actually think hunt's going to be the guy for them in this game. And I feel like it's gravitating toward them anyway, or for that anyway, when, uh, the bigger the moment it is, it just seems like they like having hunt out there. So I kind of like all the hunt bets.
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Yeah, they've just never tried it since he got hurt. Along those lines, there was a Chiefs prop I liked. It was over four and a half guys that rushed the ball. And this basically goes down to P. Ryan. If P. Ryan runs the ball, they get to five. Because Worthy has at least one carry every game. Hunt and Pacheco. Mahomes is going to run. So you're basically betting on Piran.
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Piran has no runs in the playoffs. And the Chiefs always zag when they get to the Super Bowl. So I wonder, is there like the one that's like third and nine? Oh my God, it's a draw play to Piran. But I like the four and a half over.
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Oh, then it seems like, yeah, that would suck. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, my home stuff, I love this stuff with his legs, the hunt stuff. I think he's going to actually, you know, be pretty prominently involved. The guy that I can't get a handle on is Kelsey. You just figure the yards for all of his props are five yards higher than they should be. Because he's the most public prop bet there is.
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You can do 80 plus yards for him is plus 235. Seven plus receptions is plus 135. And then there's that 25 plus yards each half. Each half. Two to one. To me, he's a stay away. I didn't like how he disappeared in that last game. No N'Kobe Dean. So maybe that's a way for him to, but I just feel like they're going to take him out.
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Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.
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They go to him a lot too. Yeah. I like that one. So you agree that Kelsey's a stay.
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So I would do the first half, second half. That's it. Game props. My favorite ones. Both teams get a fourth down conversion is minus 124. I can't remember the last NFL game I watched where both teams didn't get a fourth down. The Eagles seem to get at least one every game. Minus 124 seems like a layup.
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There's another one that I wouldn't recommend, but I thought was interesting, just because I thought the odds would have been more... better for the better. Um, fourth down conversion in your own territory, minus one 14. Oh, wow. Like, why is that like plus one 60? Oh, wow. It's so weird to go, go in your own territory.
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But if that's minus one 14, then why wouldn't I just bet on both teams to get a fourth down conversion? Right.
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Um, so successful two point conversion, um, A bet that I think we've done the last couple of years and the odds still haven't shifted enough on it. It's plus 175. It feels like we have one every year.
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Maybe it's a stay away. How about a 60-yard reception for either team? Plus 435. 60-yard plus. Interesting. That's like one worthy down the sideline or one A.J. Brown. I wanted the odds to be better for that. Seems like a Super Bowl play maybe, yeah. And then this is one of my favorites. Philly wins the time of possession. Minus 128. I went back and looked and they've won like almost every week.
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And he's not just the best defender in the league. He's decidedly the best defender in the league already. He absolutely disrupts and devastates games with his defense and really fucks teams up already.
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It feels like. And if you think they're going to win the game, then they're going to win the time possession. I had the 087 at points as well. Did you have Jalen Carter over three and a half tackles and assists for plus 120?
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I mean, he's a fucking maniac. How is he not going to get four tackles and assists?
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My favorite prop. Yeah. And then we're going to take a break, and then you're going to go through all your crazy props. All right. Chris Jones sack. Plus 136. So what do we know? What have we seen from the Eagles? Hurts will go back. And if it's not there, he holds it on too long. We see guys go up the middle and get them. And it seems to happen twice a game.
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That's exactly what Chris Jones was put on the earth to do is to push the line back. And every once in a while, he gets to the guy. And I just was surprised. I thought that was going to be I don't know, even odds. Plus 136. Pretty good. Just free value.
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All right. So those are all mine. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. The cuz is going to rip through his favorites. And then the most important part of the podcast, the Gary Russell bet. Can't wait. Next. Here we go. This episode is brought to you by Workday. There are two kinds of people in the world, backward thinkers and forward thinkers.
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So whatever you're aiming for at that 5 a.m. club or squeezing in a late-night session, Peloton is ready whenever you are. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton at onepeloton.com. All right, guys, you have the floor. Rip through your bets, and then we'll do Gary Russell.
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Or Daniel buying four squares and then three other squares for little kids and then just winning it. Yeah.
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That looks great. That sounds way more fun than being in a pool.
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I couldn't land on the right one for the right odds. I was looking at. So you can bet Mahomes throws for the most pass. Good. Barkley does the most rushing. Easy. Oh, I'll get nuts with Xavier Worthy as most receiving, and that's my threesome. Plus 650 right there.
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Pay six, ten to one. So you're saying just do a whole bunch of them?
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And then we have Luka Doncic on the Lakers to bet on. We're fine.
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I mean, being in a really nice sunny city does have a way of making you feel bad when you're, you know, when you're pulling over the t-shirt and it's a little tight because you're about to walk around.
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Eagles first half, Chiefs game, plus 750. I mean, I could actually see that happening. I would have thought that would have been like plus 500. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one. Great one, Cous. All right. Cousin South Special. Fando should fucking give that to you. They should name that officially the Cousin South Special. People should know what it is.
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So this is like second and seven. Let's throw the quick out to Noah Gray for four. Let's take Goddard really quick. Little shovel pass.
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I saw that. So who's the guy who's still winning for receivers?
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I almost wonder if the move is to bet the over on Goddard, but then you also bet the Deami Brown bet. And you can hedge it either way, right?
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Playoff. So playoff leaders. That's such a fun one. I can't believe. So Goddard's the favorite at minus 125. Deami Brown is plus 280. Oh, it's 280 now? And then Worthy's 10 to 1. It keeps going. It keeps going.
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That's a long punt. That would almost have to bounce because the guy didn't pick it up.
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That almost would make me nervous that that line is so high. Like Fandle knows something.
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Yeah, but there's got to be some other player that's under 15. Devonta Smith is under 15.
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It seems like it would have to be a pass. That's at least 25 yards. Yeah. or a run that's at least 25 yards so the guy can get the full head of steam. Right. So that's why Barkley's the favorite for that one. So he's supposed to have the longest play. It's that simple? Yeah. I'm going to bet on Travis Kelsey. I just feel like he's looking fast lately.
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Just seems like... Just seems like... No, I would bet I'm worthy on that in the 3-1 odds and then hope that he gets...
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I don't know if Fox is on a, if this is going to be like a Chicago Bulls run for Wemby someday or a Lakers run or, you know, a Kobe Gasol run or a 2010 Warriors run. I'm not sure. Fox to me seems more like a Klay Thompson, Draymond Green level star. He's not like a true number two. He's not the Kobe to Shaq, something like that.
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Probably running back. Running back's plus 185. Tight end would intrigue me, though, because you have Kelsey Gray and Goddard.
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Yeah. I can't see Casey doing it with Mahomes. So it basically come down to Jalen Hurts. And then if you're Sirianni, do you want to rip off the Philly special or play like that? And then it doesn't work. Oh, look at fucking Sirianni. Trying to do the Philly special.
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But maybe, maybe the 21 to one, just to catch a pass could be interesting.
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That sounds I could probably get inside info on that. There's some sort of purple something. There's too much action on purple. Maybe it's maybe it's that Luca went to the Lakers. Now it's like a whole purple week.
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This is going to be the first. Hold on, I'm going to throw up again. You don't like that? No, just Luca. It makes me physically ill. Yeah. They're like, oh my God, he's lost 25 pounds and LeBron has him using the VersaClimber. It's like, cool. Nobody's going to win the title now for the next seven years.
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I'll never forget when Louis K gave us the inside info and risked his job so we could win that prop. Is Lewis going to be at this thing again? Did we win? Yeah, we won because he told us what was going to happen. He was in the building.
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It's like the best inside info. I had the flip side of it though. Nick Khan, my friend Nick Khan who runs WWE. Right. We saw his son at UFC a few weeks ago and we were talking Royal Rumble. And his son, Sonny, who's a great kid. And it was like, Sonny, what's going to happen to Rumble? And he goes, John Cena is going to win the world Rumble.
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It still feels like there's room for them to get one more awesome wing. And then that's the threesome. Wemby awesome wing Fox, and they have two years to figure it out. They're not going to win the title this year. They're not gonna win the title next year, but they have the pieces to figure this out. And as we're seeing now, not just with Fox.
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And then he's going to wrestle Cody Rhodes at WrestleMania. And we were like, holy shit. And then John Cena was one of the last two. And then he lost. So Sonny swerved us. He's learning from the best. Wow. Wow. If you can't trust WWE. I can't trust a nine-year-old son of the guy who runs WWE.
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Makes you almost think it's going to happen after the game. If the NFL was scripted, the Chiefs would win and then he would propose. So eight to one seems high.
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Also, that's a better bet than Chief's Moneyline because he's not going to propose if they lose. That's true. He's only proposing if they win. Right, right, right. The Chiefs have lost by 10. Hold on. Let's go to the field where Travis Kelsey has a special announcement.
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What are the odds of me being in New Orleans? I wish you would go.
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As you know, because you've seen it, New Orleans is terrible for me.
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I can't handle it. I can't handle it. So that doesn't mean I'm not going to go, but I know that it's a bad city for me.
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Roy Oysters. You know Roy Oysters. Roy Oysters is a new state of comedian. He's touring with Jeff Ross. He's going to be the first diss track. Yeah. All right. So... The quick setup for Gary Russell, this was a million years ago. We were doing a Super Bowl props, right around when we invented Super Bowl props in the 2000s. And you did the Gary Russell bet. You had this big bet.
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You were all excited about it. I thought it was going to be like Ben Roethlisberger, 280 yards or whatever it was. Nope. This was Cardinal Steelers Super Bowl. And your big thing was Gary Russell. What was that? To not score a touchdown. To not score a touchdown. You had studied it, researched it.
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Wemby is becoming a seductive spot in San Antonio for, if you're a player that wants to win, that wants to kind of be along for the ride for some titles and some playoff appearances and a place with no state tax, a really good organization, it becomes pretty enticing. So here's the small market model working.
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So he scores in the first quarter. And I think we were watching the Super Bowl together and we're just dying laughing. And then we get this email from somebody who said they were at a Super Bowl party. There's a male and a female. They both started laughing. They didn't know who each other were. They were like, do you guys listen? Do you listen to BS Report? And they ended up getting married.
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So the Gary Russell pod has led to, this pick has led to a marriage.
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It's the least sexy prop you can bet. But you're Adam and Lee. Hank Hanowski was the best one, I think.
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I was never going to count you out. I knew you would find something. You weren't going to quit on Gary Russell.
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Oh, my theory. Yeah, when a guy has really good high school, college, and then the pros. Yeah, they get recognized.
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Grew up in Michigan, played at Central Michigan University and the University of Michigan. Yep. Fifth round draft pick, six foot one and a half, 251. Oh, stud. He's won two Super Bowls, re-signed with the Chiefs on a three-year, $24 million deal in April 2024. He's not chopped liver, that Mike Dana.
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Paul versus Peter
Mike Dana. Great one. There we go. All right. That's our Super Bowl prop stuff. So you're doing a whole bunch of stuff this week. You're going to New Orleans. We're going to be doing a bunch of content. And eventually they'll give you a pick. Do you want to do parent corner quick? I could do it. I have one.
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Paul versus Peter
Yeah, that's it. So my son was going away this weekend and I drove him. He was going on some skiing trip, even though he barely skis. And I drove him to a friend's house so he could drop his stuff off there because they were leaving from the friend's house after school. So I drive Ben and his friend to school, which I haven't done in a while. Kid gets in, his friend gets in the back.
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Ben, who was sitting in the front with me, then goes and gets in the back. So now I have no passenger seat. And I don't know what, what's your, what's your stance on this? Cause I'm like, what am I the fucking Uber driver? He's like, well, I didn't want him to be alone in the back. I'm like, cool. There's no, this is crazy. There's nobody in the front seat.
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You guys aren't like eight, like you're 17. Like you should be in the front. He's like, well, I want to sit back here.
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So what are the passenger, what are the parent passenger rules when this happens? Like, cause I really feel like the kid should, your kid should sit in the passenger seat and then she wants to talk to his friend, turn around and talk to him, but don't like leave the passenger seat empty.
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No, they just wanted it. They're both on their phone. I don't even know. Maybe they're texting about me. It would have doofus on them.
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You're watching the road. Yeah, it's weird, man. I don't like it. So I'm on the record with that. Another bank complaint. Now, because we're roughly around the same size, he just comes into my closet and just takes... you know, Oh, I need a, I need a t-shirt that I'm tired of my own t-shirts. I'll just grab one of dad's and he just goes in and he picks. And then I never see a t-shirt again.
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And he also like picks out, he's ruffling through them. So it's like this pile in my shelf. So the whole thing of like, I hope my kid grows and we're around the same size someday. It's actually when it actually happens, it sucks. Cause he's just starts wearing my clothes. And then the third thing was, um,
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Paul versus Peter
He, he wanted to get some ski stuff for the trip and he's like, no, I'm going to do it myself. I'm gonna do it myself. I'm like, all right, this is going to be a disaster. Um, so he's like, no, no, I'm doing it myself. So he goes and he gets a couple of things and, uh, he thinks he's good. And then my wife came home and she's like, I thought we were going to get, no, he's like, I'm good. I'm good.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Verbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
So then he shows this bag of what he got and he got like 40% of the stuff and Is there a bigger heat check than the boys in that 16 to 18 range who are like the, I got this, I got this. And they just are fucking terrible at everything. Yeah. They don't have it. Guess what? You don't have anything. You're driving around with a broken windshield wiper that I told you to fix three weeks ago.
Renewing Your Mind
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And then it starts raining and you put the windshield wipers on, you scratch the windshield. Like you don't have anything. It's like, you're not smarter than me. I am positive. I'm smarter than you.
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But it's like you become this basketball coach where you're bringing somebody off the bench and the guy's just not listening to the plays and then like dribbling into a triple team. You're basically Bronny James. And you're just like, you're just supposed to run the pivot action to the side. This heat check age that boys have, It just makes me want to punch Ben like twice a week.
Renewing Your Mind
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I told you to get oil. Like I told you. I know you told me. Yeah, but you didn't get the oil.
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Does it get better? Archie's now about to hit his 20s. Does it get better?
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Because that was another thing with Ben. Our dog was sick for a week because he put the fucking cake frosting right next to the counter and then he blamed the dog. Right. Well, he shouldn't have gone up there and gotten it. Murph has an IQ of 20. You can't be like, what things he shouldn't have done. He's an idiot.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
I mean, you have one of each. So I don't know. I really think it's a boy thing. I don't. I just think they feel like they're always right. And they're also still stupid because they're not adults yet. And that front part of their brain hasn't fully formed. So it's a rare combination of irrational confidence and lack of experience with everything.
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Yeah. Just leave me alone. And then they're batting 28% on decisions. Sitting in the back seat. And then sitting in the backseat as I'm driving.
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Paul versus Peter
Yeah. All right, cuz. Good luck in New Orleans. There it is. We missed you. Come down, man. Who knows? Don't rule me out. I can't be ruled out. Good luck with the betting and all the picking this week. And I will see you on Sunday night after the Super Bowl.
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Paul versus Peter
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsberry and Sal. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, you can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have new rewatchables coming for you as well. On Monday night, we did Before Sunrise last week, doing Before Sunset On Monday night, that's going up.
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Brought in a fourth person with me and Sean and Chris Ryan to talk about one of my favorite movies of the 2000s. You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. I'm going to see you definitely for another podcast Tuesday or Wednesday. Not sure which day. So stay tuned. See you during the week.
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Paul versus Peter
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Paul versus Peter
By the way, how is that picked out in this trade? Cause Jalen Johnson just goes out and that Atlanta pick is going to be somewhere probably between nine and 14 in a really loaded draft.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
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Paul versus Peter
I'm just relieved that, and we got some of it with Chris Paul this year, but you know, I am a big, if you have a big guy, you have to have a good or very good point guard that can take care of them. If I have a good eater in my house, I want to have a good chef to cook for the, if I have a hall of fame eater in my house, not going to go to the crappiest grocery store. I want real meals for my guy.
Renewing Your Mind
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Um, Sacramento, uh, now has a team of Sabonis, Levine, DeRozan, Malik Monk, and Keegan Murray basically as the, I guess, the crunch time five. I guess that means some Monk playing some point, DeRozan having the ball. This is just turning into a let's just play our best five guys together. They don't really have another point guard. Um, maybe they'll try to get one.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
Maybe they could try to flip an asset into something, but it's just a weird team. And you mentioned earlier, it's a directionless team. It's a team. When we worked at Grantland together 10 years ago, we got a lot of comedy out of, they took Stauskas. What was that with the eighth pick? Yeah. And it was that video of Vivek going around the table like, Stauskas? Stauskas?
Renewing Your Mind
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Going around and we all got a kick out of that. They've just been a train wreck forever. Really since 2000. It's been 20 years of this. Then two years ago, they get the two seed. Light the beams happening. They got a little something with Sabonis and Fox together and it feels like they're on the right way. And this year, they fire their coach. They bring in Doug Christie.
Renewing Your Mind
Paul versus Peter
If you missed it, Ryan Rosillo, Rob Hone, and I, on Saturday night, out of nowhere, Luka Doncic gets traded to the Lakers for Anthony Davis and other stuff. And we just hopped right on. We did a podcast. You can find it on YouTube on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can find it on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. So this is the second podcast of the week. We'll get to that in a second.
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They start winning a couple games. It's like, whoa, okay, feeling good again. And then Fox has that trade request and it craters everything again. They lost by 180 points to OKC yesterday and became clear something was going to happen. What would you tell a Kings fan?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
The Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. I am recording this right after Lakers Mavs, just the very top here. Four things I wanted to hit coming off that game. Number one, the Luka Doncic trade is now kind of seeming stupid for Dallas. Oh wait, it was stupid immediately when it happened. This is just a disaster. I can't believe Nico Harrison actually went to the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
If you, you can make a case for McCarthy to be good next year, but they have a lot of cap space too. Thought that was interesting. And then, um, really nobody. Is there anybody else you were thinking long shot wise that you're like, I want to see what happens with their draft and free agency. And there might be value now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, they're trying to ban the tush push, so they're already getting on it right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They are so fucked up. Everybody who was going against the Eagles the last two rounds, because they really came on like a freight train in that Rams in the Rams Eagles game. And that was the worst the Eagles looked the whole playoffs just for that fourth quarter. I brought you on to do a little quarterback roulette.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Usually teams, we go into the offseason and teams need quarterbacks, but it feels like it's an unusual amount of... This could go this way. This could go this way. This could go this way. I wanted to go through all the scenarios, but we should start with the Rams before we go through the draft pick teams. The Rams, they have Stafford. They have the 26th pick. They have $44.3 million in cap space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
There's some weird Stafford stuff where if they trade him, they take a massive cap hit for this season, right? They save like $4 million, something like that. But long-term... Dead cap 45.3 and they would save 4.3. The new team that takes him, he'd count for 27 million, 4 million guaranteed this year and 31 million next year. Is it realistic to you that he gets traded?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We don't usually see this with a team trading an expensive quarterback and taking cap hit and then another team absorbing a big contract. Do you see him getting traded?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Sure, SGA, Anthony Edwards, that'll be great. Can't wait to watch those guys battle, but it's not going to have the baggage in the history of this rivalry. So depending on how long LeBron is able to play at this level, this is the best we're going to do. Could we get this as a 2-7 matchup in the NBA playoffs? So Lakers right now, 35-21. Two seed is conceivable for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, hold on on the $50 million a year, because that's two is making that Hertz is making that. So if I'm Matthew Stafford, I'm like, I'm worth $50 million a year. Look at that guy and that guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, and there's a lot of posturing through the press, which always makes me suspicious. The more posturing publicly, the more I usually think this is just people rolling up their sleeves, showing some biceps, but nothing's actually going to happen. I looked at all the scenarios for trade teams for him, and people were mentioning the Giants. Like you said, I have no idea why he'd want to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He already took an insane amount of punishment when he was on the Lions the first half of his career, right? He's 37 now. I also think Kyle turned the TikTok camera on. I think I was thinking about how LeBron and Brady have ruined our perspective with guys in their late thirties to the point now that like LeBron looks great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I think LeBron might be a second team all NBA guy at this point, the way he's playing in the way and how much he's he's invested in defense, especially the last month and a half where he's, he's been one of the top 10 guys in the league for two months now. And then you have Brady playing until he's 45, but there's really no other examples. You go like, oh, look at Chris Paul.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He's still doing really well in the Spurs. Like, yeah, he's 10 and eight, you know? I just, I would be so nervous with the Stafford thing. So if I'm the Giants, I'm not trading a third pick for him. Maybe it's like the third for the Rams have the 26 for the 26 in Stafford. And then I'm using all my cap space for Stafford. Where am I going?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'm going to be like, I'm in the same division as the Eagles. How does that make me better? The only team I think makes sense. is the Raiders. The Raiders have almost $100 million in cap space. They have Carroll. They have some blue chippers on both sides.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I don't think it's inconceivable that they could be pretty good next year if they had Stafford and then didn't give up the sixth pick in the trade. Is there any other team? Do you like that Raiders fit for him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Give me a break. Eagles twice a week or twice a year and Parsons twice a year. Come on. And Washington. Come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Dallas right now is the eight seed. There's a bunch of teams tied in between seven and 10. They're getting some guys back soon. If you want to get good ratings, NBA, I would rig a two, seven Lakers Dallas, I think would be the way to do it. Anyway, this is an awesome rivalry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'm just saying they have a couple of good players and they have cap space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They have Wilkins too. They have three blue chippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, a thing that you and I both love when we're doing the futures in the offseason is... New coach replacing an incompetent coach, which I think is the case here with the Raiders. And then way better QB replacing a bunch of shit QBs. They fit that recipe too. And there's some Washington parallels with them. And none of us had the balls...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
to pick Washington as a team that could potentially make the NFC title game or even the playoffs. But there was a recipe we all looked at. We're like, ah, man, they need too much help. But they did have the new coach who was way better than the old coach and the QB that could come in and potentially be way, way better than what they were getting in QB. Both of those things happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They hit some draft picks. They hit some free agents. I don't feel like the Raiders are that far away from that recipe. I don't think the Patriots are either. Those are the two teams that I think you have to take seriously. But for them, like, you know, if they were able to keep that six pick, get somebody awesome, trade for Stafford, nail one more pick, get two more guys in fridge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then all of a sudden you hope the chiefs go backwards. You hope the chargers kind of stay where they are. You kind of, you could talk yourself into it, I guess is my point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
That was my first takeaway tonight watching this where I'm just like, this is must watch TV every time these two guys, two teams play. Second one is the Lakers who were still, and I talked about on Sunday night, I think they're a wildcard contender. They're not one of the four contenders to win the title, but they might be fifth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, Carroll and Stafford over Gardner Minshew and Antonio Pierce. That's five wins. I don't even care who else is on the team that you have to be. I'm just making that a plus five. All right. We got to go through some of these, some of these teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We've built up so much drama. We got to take a break. Let's take a break. We'll come back. QB roulette. This episode is brought to you by Audi. The all-new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron. A huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
See terms at sportsbook.fander.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. All right. The Titans are on the clock at number one. They have $51 million in cap space. They have the same coach. They have the first pick of the draft and they have, we'll love us a quarterback who I think we can all agree. It's not happening. Um, There's two separate questions here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Why wouldn't they just take Cam Ward? I know you're starting to do your draft prep. People do not think he is the best player in this class. I think there's consensus. McShay had his great newsletter this weekend. Our draft guys are talking about it too. You can say there's either two or three elite players in the draft. right? Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And they're definitely the, I don't know what the ceiling is of this team yet. They're 15 and four in their last 19 now. They've been top five net the whole time. Rui at center, which they've done from time to time when AD was out, but they're doing it by necessity now because the Mark Williams trade got canceled. He's a little Carl Anthony Towns this year at times. And I mean that in a good way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then I personally, and as you know, I don't watch a lot of college football, but I've prepped for this draft a lot. It seems like Mason Graham to me is a home run pick and an elite guy. So those three guys, Cam Ward is not better than any of them, but QB matters the most. And if you can hit with the guy and the rookie scale, that's the best thing you can do. So two questions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Why wouldn't they just take Cam Ward? And if they didn't, Why wouldn't they trade back to a team that wanted to take Kim Ward? Because I think he should be the first pick. What are your thoughts on that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Seems like a top five worst owner right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
To be like, yeah, Vrabel's not our guy. Let me back the GM who I'm going to fire a year later. That just tells me you don't know what you're doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So there's two possible moves for them if it's not Cam Ward. One is you flip picks with the Giants one to three. If you think the Giants are fired up for him and are worried that they're not going to get him, that he's not going to fall to three, that somebody's going to trade above them, they just want to lock it down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I mean, would you trade down two spots if you could get a Giants future first out of it? I wouldn't do it for the second rounder. I think that's too much. And the history of the draft is if you're trading up for a quarterback, you've got to have another first in the deal. We've just, that's how it's gone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
If I'm the Titans and I need help everywhere and I could go from one to three and I know I'm still getting Carter or Hunter at number three and I'm getting a Giants pick, which I would really want because I don't think they're going to be good anytime soon. I would do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I don't know if I would do it if I was the Giants because like we discussed earlier, I don't know where I'm going if I'm the Giants. I just want a good player. But that's the only trade that makes sense to me for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like he's got size, he's got, he could stretch the floor. And he's just big enough that he can push against a post-up player. Not the, you know, not a rim protector, neither as Towns. But when you watch them and it's their crunch time today, and I think their crunch time just going forward, Reeves as the point guard, even though he's not a point guard,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, content MVPs, brand new owners and GMs who need to do something desperate because if it doesn't work out, they're getting fired anyway. Just the MVPs for 25 years for me. I don't really see any other moves...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
up to the one spot, unless it was the Raiders, and they dangled six, and a future first, and maybe even took a bad contract from the Titans because they have the cap space to actually absorb something. That's the only other one. The draft order is Titans, Browns, Giants. The Pats aren't trading up for Cam Ward. Jacksonville's not trading up for Cam Ward at number five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So it would really just be the Raiders, unless... There's a jet scenario that I think there's a more interesting version of this, but they have the seventh pick. And if Garrett Wilson was on the table with the seventh pick to move up to one, I'm at least having a meeting about that if I'm the Titans, but I'm probably not doing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We'll go back to that top of the draft. I'm just going to give everybody the possibilities. Here are the quarterback possibilities if you're looking for one. Cam Ward, who's going to be a top four pick. Shador Sanders, who I think is going to be, I would say, top eight pick. Maybe top nine pick. He's going to go in the first nine. I just don't know where. And we're going to know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Did he go to the combine or did he skip it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Because there's some athleticism stuff with him that's funny because his dad's Dion. But I think everyone talks about he's tough, he's smart, he processes everything. But athletically, he's not actually as athletic as you would think he is. So I'm sure that at some point, people are going to want to see it with their own eyes. And then there's the Jackson Dart late first round, early second round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Rui is the center, even though he's not a center. And then LeBron and Luka and Finney Smith as the wings. And they're all just really smart basketball players who can kind of fill in the blanks and not totally get burned. The rim protection is not going to be perfect.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Could he have like a Bo Nix rise out of nowhere? That's it for guys who could actually start for a team next year. Then you have Stafford. We talked about all the cap stuff with him. Sam Darnold, Garoppolo, Rogers, Russell Wilson, the corpse of Kirk Cousins, Jameis Winston, Justin Fields. And my guy, Joe Milton, who I don't know if you've seen, don't look at who's on Buffalo's team in week 18.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Just look at what Joe Milton is doing. Don't look to see if there are any starters on the field. Joe Milton, is he worth the first round pick? Probably.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Is there anyone else? I've listed all those QBs. Is there anyone else you had that is like, I could see that guy starting?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Should I put my seatbelt on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So the Colts have $30 million in cap space right now. And they have the 14th pick. And if they traded Richardson... I would assume there's some sort of cap hit to it, but not that much because he's on a rookie contract. So maybe that gets them into Darnold range. What's Darnold worth for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Before I tell you whether I like this idea or not, because the franchise tag for him would be $42.4 million. franchise tax because people were thinking, oh, you could see the Vikings franchise. That would be insane for them to do that. I personally think they have 60 million in cap space. You're just going to use all of that to franchise tag them and then hope you can trade them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
There's going to be guards like Kyrie tonight that they're just not going to be able to stay in front of unless it's a team defensive concept. I think it works. I'm bullish on this Lakers team as a contender. Everyone's like, oh, you hate the Lakers. You hate the Lakers. When the Lakers are good, I'm going to admit it. We were admitting it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Why would they do that? So what's he actually worth? Because he's not worth 44.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's almost like Hollywood actors. Where you have like you have your Tom Cruise types. And then you, you drop like majorly to the next, to the next level of like, yeah, we can put that guy in a poster, but it does, you know, you don't really have to spend a lot of money for it. I, I personally think 30 million for Darnold's too high, but I can't shake the last two games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I don't know how you get past that if you're running a team and you're thinking about... If the goal is to actually try to win the Super Bowl, there might be some other teams that just their goal would be competency. And then maybe it makes sense. But, you know, Mayfield, at least Mayfield had done, you know, he had pulled the Browns. He'd won a playoff game. There was some sort of history.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then he had a really good comeback year. And there was some stuff you could point to. I don't know. I'd be really nervous about that. So you think Colts potentially for him? I don't see it with the Raiders. The Steelers would be the other one. Just because they have the cap space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And if they could get him and sell him on the culture and be like 60 million for three years, make him a $20 million guy, maybe. Yeah. You seem suspicious.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We were doing pods all the way up until COVID happened in the 2019-20 season, saying the Lakers Clippers are the two best teams. I think the Lakers are a legit contender. And, you know, I think they can get away with these goofy lineups because they're really well coached and their best two players are really smart and know where to go and what to do. So that, that's my second takeaway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Mike Tomlin's like your buddy who just dates all kinds of girls. You have no idea what his type is. He's been all over the map. I mean, think of all the QBs. They've run in and out of there. He's trying to talk himself into Trubisky. You know, is he Russell Wilson? Great. Justin Fields. I don't. Does he have a type?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Can I ask you this? Are you an Aaron Rodgers team? Would you want to do a year with Aaron Rodgers? I'm out. There's no way I'm going near that dude. And from what we saw last year, he doesn't want to get hit anymore. He doesn't have legs anymore. Like, I just don't see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like they weren't gonna chant thank you, Nico, at him for two and a half hours. If I was him, I would have pretended to have COVID, the flu, bronchitis, I don't know what, but I would not have wanted to be in the building. That's just nuts. All right, three actual takeaways. This is already the best rivalry in the NBA. I'm the most interested in every Lakers-Mavericks game from now on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Derek Carr, I'm out. I'm blind out. Can I throw a name at you that I feel like his stock is too far down compared to what it should be? Garoppolo. OK, so terrible Raiders here, right? Immortalized in the Devante Adams wide receiver show, just him being pissed off the whole year. But we've also seen he's had success.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And there was a while where the biggest criticism for him would be like, well, when he's on the field, he's good. But he keeps getting hurt. He keeps getting dinged up. He takes hits. He's just it's the durability would be the question for him. And now we've moved into this phase of he's just not good at quarterback. And I'm not sure I believe that because.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You know, the Niners came pretty close to winning a Super Bowl with him, which is a lot more than we could say about anyone else we're talking about on this list except Rodgers, who's washed up. And I'm just like, if I'm going to pay $30 million for Sam Darnold, I would kind of rather pay $5 million for Garoppolo and try to build an offensive line around him so he's not taking big hits.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And do that because I've seen him do it before. I don't think he can do it if he doesn't have a line. But if you're actually blocking for him, It's not inconceivable to me that he'd be good. You agree or disagree?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Uh, ironically, Luca is not in any of my, my big three takeaways. Cause we know how talented he is. We know how good he is. And, you know, it was interesting. You would have bet, like if you were betting on Fandle, you're doing like the same game. They had the, the, uh, parlay boost token, the, uh, The obvious bet would have been, oh, Luka, revenge, points. And it never works out that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. Like, like if the Seahawks chair to Gino, which we'll talk about in a second. And they were like, we're going to bring in Jimmy cheaper price. I'd be like, that's a bad idea. You guys can't block. Like Jimmy's going to just take a lot of hits and run for his life. And he's going to suck like he did on the Raiders.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But if it was a team that had a little more stability, like I actually think the Steelers, if they can get their offensive line healthy next year, it's a good offensive line. Potentially they've certainly invested in it. And he seems like more of a Steeler type to me going backwards. Brown's at two. No QB and Watson out for the year of the Achilles thing. This is another team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like, why wouldn't they take Kim Ward if he was sitting there at two? They're never going to have another chance to sign a QB, trade for one. They're in this Watson hell. And everyone's like, well, do you see them take Hunter or Carter? I don't understand why they wouldn't take a quarterback if they liked Ward. Why wouldn't they?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Cousins and much rather have Garoppolo than Kirk Cousins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So I think he's going to retire and be on TV next year would be my prediction for him. Interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He's getting paid either way. He's getting most of the Atlanta money. Why does he want to keep playing? Yeah. He's had a great life. He's made a bunch of money and he'll be an immediate like I think like an aggressive TV candidate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's such an important point. The psychology of the people making the decision never gets factored into these mock drafts. If I'm running the Titans or if I'm running the Browns and I don't take Cam Ward and then he goes to the Giants at three and he's awesome, I'm getting fired. If I take Cam Ward, I'm buying two years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'm in the same spot like with Grigson and on the Colts with Richardson, where you take the guy... you're not really going to get criticized no matter what happens for two years. And there's always the illusion of hope with the QB you took, right? So with Cam Ward, I'm buying the illusion of hope for two years. I now I'm secure with my job. Same thing if the Giants were able to get him a three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
That's why I think there's no scenario where he's not one of the top three picks. And I'd be really surprised. I just, I don't understand why the Browns would pass on him when they are just completely fucked with this Watson thing. And I also think like, is it inconceivable Ward could go one and Sanders could go two? And we'd be like, oh my God, we've seen Mitch Trubisky go second in a draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He just did the classic other version of a Luka game where he filled out every part of the box score, got a triple-double, but he did not have the 40-point game, which I think when you think about revenge, it wasn't what we saw tonight, but he played a really smart offensive game and really controlled it and did a lot of good stuff. But that leads to the third thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like the closer you get to these drafts, like everybody thinks Cam Ward isn't as good as the top three quarterbacks in last year's draft, right? They don't even maybe think he's as good as Penix was last year. But when you're in these drafts and people need quarterbacks, all of a sudden the value just skyrockets for these stupid reasons. I think the Browns, They're so screwed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I don't know how they don't take a quarterback with one. Like, oh, cool. We have Travis Hunter. Great. I have nobody to throw the ball to him. And our defense is going to be in the field all the time. I'll probably get hurt. Giants at three. No QB except Drew Locke. Third pick, 38.7 million cap space. And this seems like another... Another QB spot for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
There's a pot like could you trade three for Stafford and 26? You could as we covered. I don't know how it makes sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It could be a Russell Wilson team, too. Like there's a case for Russell Wilson for a team like that. We say, hey, he made the playoffs last year. He's pretty good for the Steelers, right? We get him for cheap because he's still on that giant contract. He's in New York. He knows how to handle the city. You can talk to yourself in that. We're going to suck anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Why am I spending money on a quarterback if I'm not drafting one? Raiders at six. Six pick, 99.5 million cap space. There was stuff online as we were taping this morning about Pete Carroll talking to... The Seahawks guy, a lot of people wonder if Gino might get traded. What is Gino worth to you? Like, let's say the Raiders are like, Gino's our guy. We're going to get him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We're going to give him a new contract. This is the guy we want. He's competent enough. He can throw the ball. He's had some success. This is who we like. Is it a second round pick for Gino? Is it, we'll give you the six for Gino and the 18. What's the trade?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Gino in 18. Would you do that if you're the Seahawks? And then you use the money and you sign, I don't know, Sam Darnold?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
How about this? I wouldn't trade Gino Smith if I were the Seahawks. I wouldn't either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Draft an offensive line for him. Add a couple of people who can block because that was why you lost last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Watching LeBron reinvent himself on the fly, and I think this is his 22nd NBA season at age 40, when we thought we had seen every version of whatever was happening with him, I didn't think he ever had a chance to compete for a title again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He's like, look at all my come from behind wins. And then they're like, let's throw in the Cardinals tape of, of some of the throws you made that game jets at seven. Oh, by the way, with the Raiders, we feel like Stafford is a real possibility there. That's our favorite Raiders move, right? Or taking Sanders. Yes. There's one more Sanders piece that I forgot to mention during the Raiders part.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
If Sanders is at four for the Patriots, I don't know why they wouldn't flip picks with them at that point. If the Patriots... Sanders is still there and the Patriots signal... We're trading out of this pick because we have a bunch of people that want Sanders. You could just move up and take them. But give us your first next year. Four and six. We'll flip. Give us next year's first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And we'll throw in our third round pick next year. I'm doing that in five seconds if I'm the Pats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. Because if they're at six and they're basically talking themselves into Mason Graham or the, or the best left tackle at that point, who unfortunately people aren't positive. He's a left tackle, which makes me nervous. Will Campbell. It's like, No, he's almost definitely a tackle, but he does have short arms. He might be a guard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like, well, if he might be a guard, I'm not taking him in the top six. I'm just not. You can't spend a top six pick on somebody who might be a guard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I like him too. Do I have to take him with the fourth pick? Do I take him with the six pick? Can I, can I just move down and take him at nine? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, jet seven, no QB seventh pick 11.2 million in cap space. Another possible Sanders spot. Can I just, can I test drive you through a Pat's trade? The four to the jets for Wilson in the seven scenario, just for fun, just for shits and giggles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And almost immediately, he has figured out how to kind of coexist with Luka, how to let Luka have the ball way more than we've ever seen LeBron be comfortable with with a teammate since 2011 Miami. Playing off the ball and figuring out how to affect the game in all these different ways. And then when he gets the ball... doing LeBron things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Can you give me a who says no on that one? I know I got Nephi Kyle's attention.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I didn't say it was a fair trade for the Jets. I just wanted to walk you through the scenario. Yeah. What about four and our third, which is high up in the third round, for seven and Wilson? Is that more interesting to you? And the Jets take Sanders. I'm not doing that. We have to put our second in that for you to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Okay. Seventh pick in the draft. Does Sanders fall below seven? Because I don't see how the Jets don't take him at seven. I don't see any scenario where that doesn't happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So we definitely have Hunter, Carter, who now they're talking about how his shoulder's not 100%, which could knock him out of the number one pick. Come to the Patriots. Be our Willie McGinnis of this generation. Carter, Hunter, Graham, the two QBs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then it gets like, when you start talking about like, who do you think is going to be the six pick in this draft or in that top six, you'll get different answers from different people. Some people would say it's Campbell might be the quarterback from Michigan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Um, so for the jets, like if they're just sitting there and both quarterbacks are gone at that point, they're just, they're taking anybody a couple more teams saints. They have the ninth pick, no cap space and Derek Carr and Spencer Rattler. Good luck. No ability to trade. No ability to really do anything. Colts, we mentioned whether they move on from Richardson or not. Steelers, no QB whatsoever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
21st pick, $60.2 million in cap space. I'm not saying they're not a Stafford team. They could fit the contract in. Would you trade the 21st pick for Stafford if you're the Steelers? You have to feel like you could win the title if you're doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Hey, idiots like me were saying they were the best team in the AFC at the end of November. They really looked that way, and then they completely died. Have we found T.J. Watt's body yet? What happened to him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
This is a hybrid of 2011 Miami that first year when it was still Wade's team and he was kind of easing his way into it. He was still getting his stats, but there was a lot of time when Wade was cooking because Wade was one of the three best players in the league. And he's deferring to Luke, at least what we've seen so far, while also trying to figure out all these different ways to fit in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Would you trade 21 for Geno Smith?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I think I would too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
A couple more teams and then we'll go. The Niners, Purdy, one more year left on this deal, but this is the time when you blow up the deal. You give them the giant extension and you kind of have to decide how much is Brock Purdy worth? Probably more than a Mayfield contract, maybe less than a Tua contract, but Tua got the contract he did and that made me think he's probably worth the Tua contract.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But they have the leverage of... How about you take 85% of that to a deal and then you have the security, whatever happens this season, you know you have the contract. What if this season goes badly? This is a pretty big financial decision. You're locking it up. Do it now. That would be the psychology you'd try to use against them, I guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like, look at what happened to you the second half of last season. You fell apart. We're not going to have Debo Samuel next year. God only knows how long we're going to have McCaffrey. God only knows how long Trent Williams is going to be healthy. Like, you sure you don't want this now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He should hire Kirk Cousins as his advisor. Just to scare them. Seahawks, we mentioned Gino in the 18th pick. They're over the cap. So they basically have to figure out the Gino thing. Trading him is not going to really buy them flexibility. And then the last one is the Vikings. JJ McCarthy year two. Darnold would be the 44.2 million franchise tag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
They have the 24th pick and they have 60 million in cap space. And their team, we mentioned them earlier when we were talking about the Super Bowl odds. That's a team where the odds could shift pretty dramatically. Like 32-1 right now, they do a couple moves and a couple things. All of a sudden, I could see them getting the bump. I agree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Green Bay's the other one that I think we just kind of have to see how March and April go for these teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like he'll get like these sneaky offensive rebounds. He only had two assists today because he didn't have the ball that much, but he still ended up with, you know, I think he had 25 and 12, got some big rebounds. And then defensively,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, one thing, one question with them with him is, Would he be the number one pick in this draft if teams knew he was 100 percent healthy? Because I think people like McCarthy last year, McCarthy as a draft prospect seems like it's higher than Cam Ward or Sanders this year. Right. And we're talking about how Cam Ward has to be in the top three. So my guess would be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So you have to almost think of it that way for the Vikings. We used this capital last year with this great season. Didn't end the way we wanted it, but now we have cap space and this guy who's coming in who would be the number one pick in the draft potentially.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Oh, I think they say no. I just wanted to talk it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You know who won me a title? McCarthy. I'd have some calf space. I'm really interested in what the Chargers are doing because it seems like Bosa's out of there. And that's not as big of a deal as it probably is on paper because if you've watched him the last couple of years, I don't think he's been Mr. Reliable. But it's a big foundational piece for them that didn't totally work out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And you think about what happened with them last season where a lot of things lined up. Schedule. you know, some of the pieces they had. And now I don't like their scenario nearly as much this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
the first what two months of the season he was just atrocious defensively and all the advanced metrics backed it up and he's been way more active and um i'm just really impressed the defense the rebounding and the off the ball stuff is about as high level as it gets we were working on the ringer 100 stuff and um you know after the second month of the season i didn't think there was any case for him to be a top 25 player anymore
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So you're working on your annual 50 best free agents ever for the season list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
T Higgins has been number one on a lot of lists. Who's my number one guy I want the Patriots to get. Yeah. Is there a scenario where the Bengals keep T. Higgins at a huge price and pay Chase and pay Burrow and have a competent football team? Because I don't understand how they would do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, I'm sure he's looking at it like, dude, I want Jason Higgins. Like, like we're going to be awesome if we just have the three of us and we'll figure out the rest, but you still like the Eagles. They have a great owner. And, uh, who's, you know, perfectly willing to spend money, spend money up front. That's the game you have to do if you're going to play it that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And we, the Bengals have been cheap. I'm dealing with this right now at the Patriots. The Patriots have been cheap for the last 10 years. They have some real opportunity now cap space with the Drake May rookie contract to spend aggressively. Are they going to do it? Are they going to actually show out the cash? They haven't done it for a decade. We'll see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I'll give you my dream scenario for the past and we'll go. Trading back from four to six with the Raiders and either getting a future first or the Raiders second and a fourth, something like that. And then taking Mason Graham or the left tackle who's ever left. The left tackle might be a guard, might be a tackle, whatever. I'll take either of those. We just need good players. T. Higgins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Signing him. You're linebacker. I'm taking him. Is that okay? Are you okay with him being a Pat next year? Because he's coming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Good. Come to New England. And then I'm best player available after that in the draft because we need players everywhere. That would be my dream scenario. Get an asset from the Raiders because the Raiders feel a little gamey and desperate to me. And go all out for Higgins. All out. And then if Parsons is actually in the table... I think they have to investigate that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And if it was, you know, even with the fourth pick, I don't really like trading top five picks for, you know, guys in their mid twenties who are making big money. I don't know if that's an awesome NFL recipe, but for Parsons, I think you have to think about it. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But Garrett makes me more nervous. Older, a little erratic as a guy. I think there's been some weird stuff over the years. Uh, the team's not, it doesn't seem to ever be that good with him. And I, I, I just to give up like a top five pick for that and have to pay him all that money. I don't like, is that really changing my destiny? I don't see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I don't think there's nine players playing better than him right now. Like you go Jokic, SGA, Giannis, Tatum, those four. Luka from a pedigree has to be still a top 10 player. Mitchell, Brunson, Edwards. And then it's LeBron and Cade are probably the 10 best players in the league right now. There's been some injuries. We've lost some guys. But LeBron has to be in the top 10.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
What's Parsons worth if Dallas calls the Pats and says, we're ready to move on Parsons. We need your fourth pick plus blank.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Amazing stuff. Uh, she, when's your free agent piece coming out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
All right. Great, great tease. And we can listen to you on the Ringer NFL show as well. And the Philly special, a show that I've been trying not to listen to because I like when, actually, I'll start listening again because I like when the Philly fans are unhappy. I don't want to hear happy Philly fans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I like Philly fans freaking out about Paul George's podcast and Embiid having to have a bone taken from his hip to put in his, that's the Philly content I want. Good to see you, Sheil. Good to see you. Thanks. All right, my friend Dave Burnett is here. He is an executive producer of The White Lotus and a bunch of good stuff. Jury duty. What else? Do your credentials really fast. Sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Immaculate, Sidney Sweeney movie I'm very proud of.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
That was one of your first things, right? Do the quick backstory of how you got into this because you didn't start as a producer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And I think he's the second team all NBA guy the way this is going. He's been awesome. And, you know, at this point in his career, when he's done pretty much everything you could do, and we see a lot of the old superstars, Doug Collins always used to talk about how hard it is to coach an old superstar. He seems like he's completely bought into hey, we might actually have a chance to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like Ronnie James is like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So you went from UTA mailroom, worked your way up a little bit, but then eventually landed with Mike White and you opened a company with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Great times. Yeah. Early 2010s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that, that's how it got going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So what are the tricks before we talk to the history of white Lotus, which is fascinating? What are the, what are the tricks you learn with producing a TV show that like the common person wouldn't understand? Cause people just see producer. It's a name that gets thrown around when you live in LA and you're like, what do you do? I'm a producer. And people are like, Oh yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And they don't really know what that means or what you do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
What do I have to do? It doesn't seem like there's a lot of ego stuff, which you see with a lot of older players. Just how do I fit in? How do we win? How can I chip in? It's really interesting to watch. And I'm taking the Lakers seriously. So those are my big takeaways from Lakers. Mavs, we have a lot more on the podcast coming up. Hey, don't leave the podcast now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So you're a glue guy, problem solver. Yeah. So it's like that little more important than Finney Smith. Yeah. Almost like Andre Iguodala mid-2010s Warriors range.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And what's the right number of projects to have going at the same time? Because this is part of the problem is if you start doing well, then you start grabbing and all of a sudden you're doing like 10 things and you're not doing any of them well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
The timeline of it is always so fascinating to me when people get a deal done. It's crazy. Just getting the deal done. You have to have the meetings. You have to talk people into it when you do it. How many months is that? That's like four to six?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Best case scenario, four months. Probably. Somewhere four to eight months, maybe even like a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But that's where the case where HBO loves creators. Yeah. They love Mike. Yeah. He had an idea and they're like, done, go do it. Let's go. That's an anomaly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right. For whatever reason. So you get the deal done. So let's say four to eight. Yeah. Now you got to start writing outlines, scripts. That could be like another year. Could be another year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like when the rookie wins the Super Bowl title in the first year and thinks they're going to be back every year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We got to push this to January because Bob's away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I still got football and white Lotus for you next. We're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network, where I put up a brand new rewatchables on Monday night, me and Van Lathan and Joanna Robinson did crash the 2006 Oscar winner. It's the 20th anniversary of that movie. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
The meeting gets canceled. Oh, I thought we were meeting Wednesday. We got to push it. When's your next availability? I can't do it. And then that's 10 more days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's the most incompetent system I've ever seen, the way it's done and how hard it is just to get balls going. But then when you actually get going, now you're in the outline process. Then they have to approve that. Then you're in like, all right, now it's like the giant advanced outline. They have to prove that. Then it's like the first possible pilot script.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that goes, and this could be like another year and a half, right? A hundred percent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We didn't even have Anthony Davis tonight. We didn't have Gafford. We didn't have Lively. There's going to be a version of this game, at least for this season and next season, I would guess, where you have this big Mavericks team with a bunch of size, and then you have this weird Lakers team that's kind of playing small, but they're not small because their front court has 800 pounds of guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So do you think about it like, what's it like as a movie? What's it like as a scripted? You're trying to figure out the best model for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah. No, didn't he play Jerry West? No, no. No, who played? Oh, that was Jason Clark. Yeah. Got my Jason screwed up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We rarely do this on the rewatchables where we just bring a movie on just so we can pick nets with it for an hour and a half and make fun of it and do a whole bunch of things. I had a really good time. I thought this was a very entertaining episode. Every once in a while, we just got to do this to keep the muscles fresh. Anyway, you can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Do you feel like it's like a party where when the first star comes on, then it just becomes like dominoes?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
That's what everyone does with 30 for 30. We got Barry Levinson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
What's your, what's your best thing that you had that fell apart, but it still haunts you at night the same way, like the 1985 finals haunts me for the Celtics. That's a great question. Um, you don't have to say what the project exactly was, but was there one that you're just like the one that got away?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Do they die or do they just go in a coma?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right. It's just too hard. It's like having the OKC Thunder in 2010, but when they're on rookie contracts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Is there a moment when you know things are going well because people are now approaching with projects in a way... Can you feel that happening in real time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You can go to the Ringer Movies YouTube channel and watch it there as well. You can get all the videos and clips from this podcast. on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And then last but not least, Celtic City on HBO. Sunday night, March 3rd, HBO Max. It's going to be once a week. It's nine episodes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's never totally easy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So the ways it can go wrong, because we see this when I do the rewatchables research and it's always so interesting with the casting what ifs or this movie fell through and then they revitalized it years later, the same idea, but it's with totally different people, a different director. The ways it can go wrong is,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
like your music scenario where you have the people, you have the right people in your head, but then too much time passes and you lose them and you just can't find the next batch of people. Or you have it built around a star. There's a delay in the production. Yeah. Something bad happens. You lose the star. Now the studio doesn't want to make it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then the other one that's the famous one is the person who backed it on the studio side or the Hollywood side. They switched jobs or they got fired. And now the new guy or new lady comes in. It's like, well, that wasn't my project. I don't want to do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, because you also see this stuff where, like what happened with Levinson on that show where he starts to do the idol. Yeah. Then the idol becomes this whole thing that ties up. And then that entourage, not entourage, euphoria cast, they're on hold. They lose the momentum from the series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But that also happens with all these other projects, too, where you think, oh, we're going to start as soon as they're wrapped up with season four. And then it's like, oh, no, they're actually not going to be wrapped up. You have a whole set and a whole system in place that now is on hold. And then you have to decide whether you want to punt on the actor or not, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's one of the coolest projects I've been involved with and I'm really psyched for everybody to watch it. So, Mark it down. I know there's a lot of good TV on these days, but mark down a Celtic city. It's coming. I'll talk more about it on Thursday's podcast coming up for the rest of this podcast. She'll Kapati and I are going to talk about the quarterback situation in the NFL right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And that's why it's a tough business. One of the things that I'm always obsessed about, especially... We've talked about it on the podcast a bunch is why there's so many cooks in the kitchen with these projects. When, especially when you're talking TV and the entire history of TV and what's worked and what's not worked, it's usually like one vision.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like a couple executives trusting the person who had the vision and everybody kind of clearing out and letting them do their thing. And that's been most of the great shows we've ever had. And I don't understand why Hollywood just doesn't obey this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
When the Zoom is so big you can't fit everyone on your phone, something has probably gone wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We see that on the documentary side too with a lot of the stuff I've been involved with. The more people weighing in, and one of the things I try to do as a producer of those, and it doesn't always work, is you try to funnel the notes through one person so at least they only hear from one voice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But like when the Celtics thing I just did, which I'm really proud of, I think it turned out great, but there, you know, we had the Celtics, it's their IP. They have notes. You have the NBA. They're going to weigh in with their notes. And then we had our production side and it's like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
If you can pass a tipping point, especially if somebody is just in the abyss with whatever they're working on and they're just hearing all these different things and notes are conflicting, it can really fuck them up. It seems like every showrunner, director, whatever, you're going to hit this dark place with what you're working on. And you need at least one person to be like... I got you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I got you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And picking your battles, right? Picking your battles. Maybe give them this one because it's not worth fighting about because I really need to win this one later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
A lot of teams that need one, a lot of teams that can't find one, some guys that might be moving teams, some top 10, possibly top five, possibly top three quarterback prospects. that are going to make the draft more interesting. So we're going to cover all of that. And then my friend Dave Barnett is going to come on, who is an EP of White Lotus and has been a producer for a long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Wow. Well, you know, part of the problem is people feel like sometimes they just have to give notes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Or else it doesn't look like they gave a shit or watched it or did their job or cared. Yeah. So here's six extra notes just because I want to make sure my email is long enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So it's a weird process. One of the best behind the scenes experience I had was when we did the Andre the Giant doc because they just trusted us. Yeah. And it was, you know, Jason was the director who's great. I don't know if you met him, but... We just kind of figured out the framework and it just kind of went smoothly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And it was one of those things where afterwards I was like, man, I wish that's just how it went. It's just like a couple people figuring it out. Everyone else trusts those people. And there you go. And we'll talk about how unique White Lotus is, but we'll take a quick break and then we'll talk about this is a unicorn type of show. Anyway, break.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Okay, so White Lotus, which you were involved with intimately from the very beginning. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
the perfect kind of tv show from a production standpoint in a lot of ways you're not relying on a star because you can change the cast whenever you want you have one person writing the entire show almost as like an eight hour movie you have a network that completely trusts that person and you kind of have a blank canvas to be like all right we have this hotel Here's the premise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
We're going to dive into this. We can change locations every year. It's a show that I'm sure you probably thought was going to be a one-year show. And now you can potentially do eight or nine seasons of it. And you guys are controlling it and they trust you. This is like impossible. It never works out this way. So why does it ever work out this way?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
His story is interesting. His story is about White Lotus and just like what it's like when you see somebody as an executive producer of a scripted TV show. What is that job? What do they do? We're going to dive into all of it. I promise you're going to like it. So that is what's happening. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Gio Capani from the Ringer is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Wow. Cause that, cause so that's 2008. Yeah. Cause the whole premise of we're starting this show, but something weird happened. You're going to eventually discover what happened. That's like a very late 2010s premise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Because it's like they're talking about like the... I'm trying to think some of the stuff they did. I guess The Hitchhiker.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right. So it's 2013 range.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But the funny thing is the model you laid out earlier where you then don't have to rely on a fancy famous cast member. It's actually like a better model.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So you're calling it the honeymoon show. And the new guy's like, the honeymoon? What the fuck is this? And he's out. Gone. So now's our second strike, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And Mike is being pigeonholed now as like incredibly creative guy, but can't have like a giant show. Exactly. He's not like a big taste guy. Exactly. He's like a small critics love him type of guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And we basically had one- So it's Honeymoon Show, Jennifer Coolidge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
In some location.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
A roller coaster ride of a month for him. The Eagles win the Super Bowl in about as convincing a fashion as we've had in a while. And then on the flip side, the Sixers have spiraled into a fiery pit of hell. Do you care? Does anyone in Philly even care about the Sixers right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Wow, so he's like Bradley Cooper in Limitless, just cranking it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, at that point, they probably had like two things going because nobody could film anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You skipped over the casting piece of this when you're doing the thing that fast. So obviously the show has... really good casting, but who does that come from? Is it a team thing or did you hire an awesome casting person or is it just people you and Mike like?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, it's going to be if they end up in the sixth spot and it's a top six protected pick. And you're just holding your fingers crossed that nobody leapfrogs them. I think ending up at seven after how devastating the season would have been, that would be an all-timer. The Eagles thing, I'm still kicking myself for not picking them. I have so many regrets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And you're thinking, this is a one and done. We're out of here. How do we pull this off? This is finished.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So you finish the show. HBO loves it. I started hearing about it well before it came out. Like, hey, there's this show we have. It has a chance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But there's two genius things though. One is that you don't know where it's going and you kind of want to see, but the other thing that plays into the COVID piece, you got to go on vacation to Hawaii, which was great. You just got to go somewhere that wasn't like your house with the same family or friends that you were just staring at for the last nine months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I talked to you that first week before we got into Super Bowl week. I'm like, I'm taking the Eagles. I'm taking them. I really think they have a better team. And then by Wednesday, the Mahomes Kool-Aid had washed over me. And the fear of just... being wrong and having my heart like, God, I, and it just, that was it. That was the only reason I'm never doing that again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I remember texting Casey about it. Like, where's season two? And he's like, Mike's never doing a season two. There's no way. I was like, how do you not do a season two? Just go to a different location. He's like, yeah, we know. But Mike, that's not how he operates. He's not going to do it. So what changed?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And... But it's a lot easier for season two, I'm guessing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
If all the evidence is on one team like that, I'm just never doing that again. I'm never buying into this whole amorphous. Well, you got to do it. They win all the time. This is the stupidest thing you can do. And why did we do it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
To be like, yeah, come here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Then Luka trying to get revenge against his...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
There would have been a good title, Sexual Jealousy. That's a good title for like a Cinemax movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But yeah, that was when I got to know you a little bit and it was, you were just out of it. Yeah. You couldn't follow sports in the same way? Like nothing. I mean, do you remember one of our first Zooms?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Honestly. So you're worried about monsoons, mosquitoes, wind. There's always the tsunami thing, which is, you know, by the way, not, not a theme. Always a thing. Season three. But it's coming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
his old team and just a lot of different storylines that i think are great i we had this in the 2000s the seeds of it when shaq went to miami but kobe's lakers team wasn't good enough we had the seeds of it when durant went to golden state in 2016 and then there was going to be an okc golden state robbery but golden state was just way better than okc this
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And the problem solving. So it sounds like Italy was probably the easiest of the three seasons. Yeah. Hawaii is the hardest. And then Thailand's just a wild card every day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You said it's your favorite season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Your three friends think it's another shitty season. Yeah, of course.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
By the way, it's not slow. You need to watch, unfortunately, and we have to do this for the recap pods. You kind of have to watch them twice to kind of absorb everything that's in there. Cause it's like this dense, all this hidden shit going on and you can't just like watch it while you're like on your phone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, I mean, see, we don't have to spoil episode three, but snakes, fires, and tsunamis are some of the dream visuals going on in the third episode.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So you're almost doing like the Belichick salary cap move where you're just getting these awesome veterans to be like the middle linebacker, but you don't have to shoot your wad on Ryan Reynolds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So all the Eagles fans have told me the Pat Super Bowl, because it was the first one of two generations, basically, was a more emotional, better one. But this was, in a lot of ways, more satisfying. Especially the Jalen Hurts piece of it. which I think as we get away from that game and, you know, the days pass and it's just, weren't really sure what you had with that guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like, that they're there because their agent told them to be there because they know it's a good show, but they don't actually watch it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And Mike's no help. He's right in every single line. Every single line. I mean, well, Mike's the genius. Right. But it was funny because at one point when they were doing like one of the... I forget when the writer's strike was. And one of the things they were talking about how... Oh, this one, they don't have a writer's room. It's like, yeah, because it's like an eight-hour movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
He doesn't need a fucking writer's room.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But why wouldn't people just think of it as a seven hour movie, which is what it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
The two people, I don't know how they do it are him and Taylor Sheridan. Yeah. I don't know. I don't understand how Taylor Sheridan is producing this much content. I don't know. It really does feel like, like I made the limitless joke before, but he really does feel like the limitless, like we're going to find out. Yeah. He found some sort of something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then he was really awesome. I was watching some of the inside the NFL type stuff after that game. He was just great in that game. I mean, that was one of the better QB performances. So going forward, you know, for the money you're paying, all right, it's like, all right, we can win the Super Bowl with this guy. This is good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So is the number one thing that happens to you at the show, people suggesting locations for the next season?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like that or my other favorite thing is- Because if my wife came in right now, she'd be like, why don't you guys do a skiing season?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Mike says, no, definitely work with that. Italy hotel became, it became like one of the hottest hotels in the world.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You're like a VIP at a casino. They're sending you the private plane so you can come gamble there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And do you figure out the location first or do you figure out the idea?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Okay. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So Mike could be like, season four is about adultery. That's what I'm excited about. Okay. Let's think about locations that would be a good adultery location.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
What is the shelf life for the Seagulls team with all the stuff they've done with the cap? Because I know they were maneuvering and getting a little creative, but at some point that runs out, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You're just filing it away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So if he does season four, there's a podcaster. We'll feel like he's making fun of maybe this podcast we're doing right now. You never know. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
This is the part of the podcast where I pitch a White Lotus character for some season and it's awkward and you end up not doing it. I just feel like an NBA player going on vacation is the all-time just sitting there idea, which then you could really get involved with. I don't know if Mike cares, but I was thinking about it during All-Star break.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
All these guys went away and they went like a couple of guys you could see like we're like almost a little sunburned. But I was thinking like this, this is where I would love White Lotus to go one year is have like a basketball star. And we could all try to guess what pieces of stars you took to make this star.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Right. He went to Cabo, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Just to hang out with athletes. Yeah. And then it's like, do we get a real athlete? Do we get a fake athlete? Because the other one I was thinking was quarterbacks would be a good one too. During the off season, they go away, they bring whoever and you could have the guy brings... his wife, but also his girlfriend staying somewhere else in the hotel. And you got that whole thing going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Oh, I promise you he's seen the show. Magic watches all the TV. But he must be like, cause he must've been like, Who the fuck is this idiot, like grown man talking to me like he's a little boy. By the way, this happens to magic every day, like seven times a day. So I watched it a bunch of times. But it was amazing. People melt into puddles when they talk to him. Pussy's gigantic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I mean, you're tall, but he's... It's, it's, you just can't believe he's, he's six, nine and he's right there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I don't know what the right sport is, but it, I feel like it has to be NBA or football.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, our friend Tommy, Tommy Alter, who people know from this pod because he was involved with it for a long time. But he said from the moment Travis Kelsey did SNL, He's like, this guy's going to be an A-list action movie star. I'm calling it now. He planted his fight. He was the first one who pointed his flag. Oh, yeah. Because I feel like we need it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Like, Carry On, I know it crushed for Netflix. I didn't really love Taron Egerton as the lead. We're missing, like, these guys that, like, I grew up with in the 80s, 90s. These little bit of unintentional comedy, but can act, like, just barely good enough. But they're also, like, physical and awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It would have been funny if you caught him like during White Lotus season one and he was just like working for Murray Bartlett. He was like the 20th guy in White Lotus, just came down to Hawaii to hang out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
People like White Lotus season three? They're happy with it? Except for your three buddies, those fucking assholes?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
It's like... Well, that's why we did the pod the way we did it this year because... I love that. The one at a time. That's the only way to do it. You really have to like, oh, I think. And then an episode later, you're completely wrong. I'll be honest with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I like going on vacation with shows and people being in the right hands of creators. This show is perfect. Because I've never been to Thailand and I'm never going, especially after hearing some of the things that happened to you when you were there. I'm just never going. I told my wife. She's reconciled it. She can take my daughter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
There's no safari. That's not on the list, right? African safari.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, because that's the great thing about this show. You have all these locations. You have fucking 10 seasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Yeah, you figure it's four or five years for the window. Certainly, the Pats had three different windows during the Brady era. And as we've discussed in the past, all of them hinge on if you can nail a couple of drafts in a row, which is the Eagles did that. They're probably the best example of that, the drafts that they had the last couple of years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
All right, we'll leave on these two things. One, Luca, you must be over the moon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I mean, he's already skinnier. It took like a week. Like, it feels like he already lost like five pounds. Which I love.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
So your life is basically people talking about the Luca trade with you, people suggesting White Lotus locations, and then people trying to set you up. Those are your three things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But White Lotus is a hot show. You're probably getting some good offers for setups. I've heard rumors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
But yeah, it is. That's a nice one to drop at a party when you're talking to somebody. What do you do? I'm an EP on White Lotus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
All right, Dave, good luck with the rest of the season. Thank you for having me. Nice to see you. Thanks for coming over. Of course. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sheil and Dave. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify, and you can also watch on our YouTube channel, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
New rewatchables as well, if you missed it. Crash, that's up there. And then White Lotus, if you're in on that show, we've been covering it on the Prestige TV podcast. Me, Mallory, and Joanna doing the recap pods. And then afterwards, during the week... Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson with their Deep Dive Theory podcast. So we have all that going. And I love that show and I'm glad Dave came on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
And then looking out with that linebacker who now is going to become one of the top free agents, a couple of really shrewd signings where you pay... X amount for somebody, and then he turns out to be an A-lister. It's really impressive. You don't think there's an unexpected trade with them, though, right? Like, there's no, hey, here's the time to trade A.J.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Anyway, I will see you on this podcast on Thursday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Brown right now for draft capital so we can get it. Like, are they going to do anything crazy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
You don't think Parsons gets into play this year, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Well, it's the thing where... you've already committed to these other guys money-wise, and it's almost like you've made the mistake of doing that, and now you compound the mistake by doing the second thing. It's almost like the Embiid extension the Sixers did, where it's like, well, we're all in. Okay, here's the extension, and you're just making things worse. So...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
has a chance to be a really fun back and forth. Every time they play, it's going to be a fun game like the one tonight. And I'm looking forward to it. I would say for the rest of the 2020s, this is our best bet for an awesome NBA rivalry. Like Boston, Cleveland, maybe that'll get there. I doubt we're going to have all the storylines and the baggage that this one has. I don't know, Minnesota OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
Eagles plus 650 on FanDuel to win the Super Bowl again. They're the favorites. KC's 7-1, which I thought was ambitious because that's an aging team in a lot of respects. I don't know. They have the same offensive line problems that half the league has. It can't be like, well, we need a left tackle. Well, cool. 15 teams need a left tackle. Kelsey, don't even know if he's coming back or not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad
I thought that was... Pretty ambitious to have them tied with the Ravens. The Ravens are 7-1 too. I probably would have had the Ravens as the favorite coming out of the AFC. Detroit's down to 9-1. San Francisco's 12-1. Buffalo plus 750. And then we get into some intriguing teams. When you go into the longer shot odds, Texans 28-1 kind of jumped out to me a whiff. Vikings 32 to one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And we're going to do it again after we hear from our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're recording this on a Tuesday. Always fun to have this guy. I would do the future of everything concept, but he's on a little book tour. He's dressed up. Never seen him in a tie before. I'm just one of many stops, but I booked it super early.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
So why'd you name the book Abundance? I know the reason, but tell the audience.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Can I ask a super dorky writing question about what it's like to write a book with somebody else? Especially if you don't live in the same place or do you live in the same place?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
So it was somebody writing one chapter and somebody else is writing the next one and then you're sending the drafts and then somebody spruces it up, sends it. Like, how did you do it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Is this an audio book on Spotify?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Free audio book ad for Spotify. We're going to take a break, come back and do the future of everything. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. And bundling home and auto, it's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right, future of everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
This is a gimmick we try to do every six months. Little snapshot of where we are. So this is the first time we've done it in 2025. And we usually do politics, sports, tech, culture. Might replace health for politics, depending on what's going on. But you did your politics version. Mine was tied into it too. With people asking what happens to the Democratic Party, where does it go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I was thinking what happened is a better question. And thinking about it almost like you would think about sports. You think like JFK dies in 1963. By the way, the file is allegedly getting released as we're taping this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I'm never going to believe it until it actually happens. But how many Democratic candidates since JFK was assassinated, do you feel like actually inspired people and started some sort of wave movement?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I was in college. I can vouch for it. He, it was a, it was a, it was a movement. We were in it. We liked him. And it worked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
So that's so for the right now, other people could say, no, no, Jimmy Carter in 76. That was more of a Gerald Ford. Nobody wanted to vote for him again. Ted Kennedy was supposed to be the guy and then it wasn't going to happen. And Carter, by the way, I love Carter. Carter was probably my favorite president, but I don't think it was a Carter movement by any means.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I'm pumped because future of everything is clearly one of the nine most important things you're doing today. Derek Thompson, host of Plain English. New co-author of a book called Abundance with Ezra Klein that came out this week, today. And I'm just going to say it. I feel like you lucked out that this didn't come out last year. Timing seems perfect.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
It's just, I just think after the fact, I think you look back at Carter. I'm like, Oh yeah. Like the Malay speech. I I've talked about this before. I just, I, he just probably shouldn't have been president, but I liked how he stayed authentic to himself to the bitter end, even to the point that he was going to lose in 1980.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Um, Sanders had a little momentum too, but you know, it was definitely niche momentum. Um, you can't say Biden, uh, Biden was more like the anecdote. This is the only way this side can beat this side. So, all right, we got to go this. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is two people in 62 years. is not a good batting average.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
So when people say, well, all we need is we need to find somebody who can come in and whatever. It's like the batting average says you're probably not. That's probably not going to happen. So what's plan B? And I wonder when we start talking about that, because even I saw Josh Shapiro was on Bill Marshall last week. And I think he's, you know, he presents very well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
He's very well liked in Pennsylvania and checks a lot of boxes. And maybe he could be the third guy. It's just interesting to me that the batting average is so bad. 63 years is a long time, 62 years. And it's going to be 65 since JFK when we do the 2028 election. And you've had two guys that have inspired a party. So maybe that says more about the party.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Well, I think about when I was growing up as a kid and the Kennedys still had this outsized kind of hold over everything, right? And to the point that Ted, people are always keeping their fingers crossed for him. And he finally ran in 1980. But this was somebody who, you know, accidentally killed somebody in Chappaquiddick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
and swam to safety and did a reporter for eight hours and somehow still tried to run for president. And then, you know, was in Massachusetts forever. Um, but people love the Kennedy's so much. They were like, yeah, well, it was a rough night. They, you know, they're like overlooking whatever. And then after he went away, just think about like 84 Mondale Dukakis, like, Oh, just kind of way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And then Clinton shows up and he felt like just of the era, he felt like, MTV, like he was on MTV and it made sense. You know, he just, he made sense to like all the people I was in college with. I was like, ah, I could see that guy. Um, and then Obama had the same kind of moment. So we're headed toward, if you're thinking like generation, generation, this generation now, who's it going to be?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But I think you're right. It's almost has to be somebody who's outside the box from whatever this weird prototype that they've created. He's careful, non-authentic. I thought this was the thing that killed Kamala. Now, granted, Kamala was in a terrible situation. You have 100 days to run for president. Like in retrospect, that was crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
The whole point of running for president is to criticize the guy who has the job and she couldn't do it. But, you know, I still felt like, like, I still think she should have gone on the Rogan pod. I think that would have helped her. But she was, they were so worried about you know, putting out like what she ended up doing was SNL with Maya Rudolph. And it's like, cool.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
That's like the safest, easiest, most predictable thing you could have done. Um, whoever the next person is, I think has to have some sort of authenticity piece that's been missing for a long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And I do think that's why Sanders resonated even a little, because whether you agree with him or not, he really believed what he was saying. Like he really gave a shit about it and it really stuck with people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Mark Cuban can't run now because they just bring the Luka Doncic trade up over and over again. He is going to have to own that answer. And then they trade their best player. Why'd you sell the team? Why didn't you put in something that could have traded him? It'd be a tough one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
No, because if it had been the Lakers, we're doing well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Um, the, the real answer is we're not going to know for two more years, because if you look at the sea change elections, it's always somebody that came out of nowhere, 15 to 18 months before the thing. So, cause I always hear like the, you see the pieces or people talking about, here's a list of seven people. It's like, we don't know who the person is yet. The person is yet to materialize.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Anyway, uh, we're going to move to sports, your future of everything for sports. The thing you're fascinated in is what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Did you hear the thing Goldsberry and I did about the schedule last week? No, tell me. We did basically about how the NBA, the schedule is wrong and they need to move it six weeks so that it peaks in June and July, all the way through July. and get away from football as much as they can. If they could shorten it even better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I do wonder if we're heading, because I think what the success MLB had when Theo Epstein came in and changed some of the things they were doing and added the pitch clock and all things that would have seemed crazy 10 years ago, and they really worked, I think has been pretty eye-opening. I thought you were going with the future stuff, what was going to be after math.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
which I think is going to be AI. And I don't think a lot of people have talked about it yet. And it's not AI the way you think. It's for drafting and scouting. I think there's going to be all these AI programs that captures demeanor, facial expressions, the ways your eyes are, how you stand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
That's awesome. Yeah, it's beyond how do we fix this, which is always a fun column to write our podcast to do. After the election and then all the dialogue about where do we go? I don't even know. It's basically like, we have to fix this, but nobody knows how to fix it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
whether just these crazy things that would be like, this guy is more of an alpha because our AI program followed him and tracked him as he walked around a basketball court. It's going to be, I think we're headed toward weird fucking minority report shit like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Right, they're in March Madness watching people on the bench. And it's like, that guy's not paying attention to his coach. The AI program doesn't like that. I genuinely think we're moving that way. And I don't think the teams, it was just like what happened with math in the 2000s. The teams all had the analytics and they weren't sharing them. And there was a six, seven year stretch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
They knew how people were doing on corner threes. They knew how the plus minus, they had all that shit. They just weren't sharing it to us. I think AI is the next thing because AI is guys, you were, I think you came on maybe two years ago when we really started. And even then you came on again six months later and it had already shifted. I just think the profiling of AI is going to be a big thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
That's not my sports thing though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But it's going to be a five-year run where some people have it, some don't. Okay. And they'll get the advantage. It's like in baseball when they cared about defensive metrics for like five years and only a few teams cared, and then it evened out and everybody cared.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Not just body language doctoring. I should have mentioned this too. Running style. Trying to guess like how somebody's frame is, how they move, whether it's football, basketball, baseball. Do they move in a way that could be susceptible to injury later? And then the AI program has all this stuff from like, there's Mookie Betts. He never gets hurt. Why does he get hurt?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
What is different about his body than like Giancarlo Stanton? I think we're going to have all this stuff and I think they're working on it now. That is not my sports thing though. I agree with you. Math, math, we're moving towards something new and maybe it's a hybrid of 19 things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
So, and I don't even know if I'm right on this a hundred percent, but I feel like I'm 90% and maybe I'm five years early, but I've been thinking about the NBA. I'm going to call it a labor glut just because you like when you like phrases like memorable phrases. The NBA is getting older. in a way that is having an interesting effect now on rosters and talent and how young talent can break through.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And meanwhile, you guys have been working on, I mean, you have some solutions, but you're more trying to identify the problems and the problem areas and then possible solutions for those, right? That was the original intent? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
The league is just really deep. And I've talked about this a bunch, but I actually went and I looked at it trying to figure out, are we deeper and are older guys staying longer? And could this actually like fuck up the league a little bit? Like we're too deep. One of the reasons I was thinking about it is there's like this really good six man of the year race this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
usually there's like two six men. I'm like, ah, Jamal Crawford. Like, ah, Lou Williams. This year, there are like these game-changing six men all over the place, right? You have like Nas Reed. You have Ty Jerome. You have Peyton Pritchard. You have Beasley on the Pistons. Every team kind of has somebody awesome. And then if you look at the bench, there would be these games where
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Like Denver yesterday, two guys, Jokic and Murray didn't play. They beat the Warriors anyway. These other guys stepped up. They have Russell Westbrook, who's just kind of, all right, Russell, just have an old school, crazy triple-double where you have seven turnovers. Like, sure. So I went back and I looked up how many guys who have been in the league 11 plus years are still relevant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
This is 11 years or more. Now, LeBron is obviously the most. He's 22. CP3 is 20. KD, Horford, and Conley. KD's not on a playoff team. The other two guys are. They're in their 18th year. Russ, Brooke Lopez, Batum, DeAndre, 17th year. Curry, Harden, DeRozan, Drew, 16th year. And you go on down. And it's just a shitload of guys. The Kawhi draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
That draft had Kyrie, Kawhi, Vucevic, Butler, Valanciunas, Klay Thompson, and Tobias Harris all still playing. And I was thinking about when I was a kid, and it's funny because we just did this episode on Celtic City. John Havlicek retired and he played 16 years. He played from 1962-63 season to 78. It was like, oh my God, Hondo played 16 years. This is just where we're going now with the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And you think like guys like, you know, that like Giannis is a year 11 or he's a year 12 guy. Jokic is in his 11th year. Here's who's in their 11th year. Aaron Gordon, Embiid, Wiggins, Marcus Smart, Randall, Levine, Nurkic, Capella, Dinwiddie, Grant, Clarkson, Bogdanovich. So my question is, they actually really need to expand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Because if you have this older class of player that you just didn't really have before. So then I was like, well, they must've had it before. So we went back to 2014 top 26 guys in total minutes for the 2014 season, all 29 and under top 50 PR guys that year, only eight guys who were over 30. In the top 50 minutes per game that year, only three guys were 30 and over. Zach Randolph, 39th.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Kyle Korver, 42nd. David Lee, 50th. Those are the only guys 30 and over. This year, we have top 50 minutes per game, 13 guys, 29 and over. Top 50 PER, 13 guys, 30 and over. So it's not that many, but it's where the league's going. And we're just headed toward this league now where you can have a 16, 17 year career and it's not crazy. So does this mean we could have 40 teams?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Where does this go for the workforce?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Quinn Grimes is a great example. Yeah, because I was thinking... Well, like I used to do the trade value column when I wrote for ESPN and it was always, you know, I had trouble getting past 30. I tried to get a 40 or, you know, and the 30 to 40 guys, I was like, ah. And then when I did the exercise this year, I'd like easily got to 75 and had a bunch of honorable mentions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But you think about how the league works. Like you mentioned Grimes, who was buried on Dallas. goes to Philly, some guys get hurt, and now all of a sudden he's turning himself into a $50 million guy. Or you look at Austin Reeves on the Lakers, where LeBron goes out of the lineup for a couple games, and all of a sudden he's averaging 30.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
The Celtics have Pritchard, who if a couple guys get hurt, he could just come in and be awesome. And it just seems... the deepest it's ever been. And there's also the LeBron piece of it too, whether he's an outlier or not, because the stuff, you know, he's breaking every record.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Is this just like a Brady situation where you almost have to put them over here because he was so devoted to the conditioning and everything else just to get his body ready. That's all he cared about for 365 days a year. Some rules maybe went toward his way a little bit like it did with Brady. And you can't replicate that? Or is that the sign of where we might be going?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Because Durant's in year 18 and people are going to try to trade for him this summer. But then the flip side would be Paul George, who's in 2011 draft, whose body is now breaking down, which is a little more traditional of what we're used to. So I mean, it's just one of those things like if Giannis is a free agent in a year, Giannis was in the 2013 draft. He's got some miles on him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Are we in the new NBA or the old one? What is the aging process? I think it's going to be a big topic over the next five years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Embiid Odin, I think, is a better example. Like big, tall dudes. Well, there's that. But then there's the other piece about like, let's say I'm thinking about signing somebody who's been in the league eight years. And I take all the video of when they were in college and the first two years of their league and how they moved and how they jumped.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And then I'm able to take the video of them last season and have the AI program look at it and be like, what do you see? If you looked at Embiid in Kansas versus Embiid at the Olympics, it's no contest. It looks like two different people. And AI would, so maybe that's the way I could go. Anyway, I think we're headed toward interesting times with longevity.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
The last time I felt this way was the end of 2000s because I remember Gladwell and I writing a lot about like, where's this going? And then we saw where it went. Now I feel like we're moving to this new version of something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Well, because it was a lot of the stuff Nash and some other people were doing that decade. I remember we wrote one piece about it. It just seemed like there were real factors in place to extend careers. The dieting, the training, the equipment, the ability to study yourself on video. There are all these little things that were just going to help you grow and the guys were starting to use it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And I think JJ's done a great job as the Lakers coach this year. And he's kind of a new version of a coach that I think you kind of need to have with the way the league goes, where he's like really analytics, he's really video, and he's like a workaholic. And it's this new version of the kind of guys that have succeeded in the past.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But you watch the Lakers, they're like impeccably prepared for these games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
There's probably some biometric stuff in there too that I think some of the better teams are doing. To me, you basically have all the data possible, but we've had it for a while. I think people are getting better at figuring out what data matters. And sometimes it's simple.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
It's Joe Mazzola taking over the Celtics and being like, if we shoot 53s a game, we're going to make between 15 and 20 of them. And if we make 20, we then become unbeatable. And if we make 15, we're probably going to win anyway. So this is how we're going to play. And everybody on our team has to be able to play this way. We can't have a bad apple.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Every single person on the team has to be able to shoot. So that's like a philosophy crossed with math, right? Which I think is the next evolution of this. Before it was, if you look at some of the stuff Daryl was doing 20 years ago, it was like, Shane Battier, we have all these stats that say when he plays, his team is better. There's plus minus, there's defensive stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I remember I asked him once, Do you have stats that tell you how good somebody is defending the low post? And I think he said back to me, this is why we have Chuck Hayes. And I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah, Chuck Hayes is really good at this. So those are the advantages. But now everybody knows. We're going to take one more break. We're still going to do culture and tech really quick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
All right, we'll fly through this because you're on your book tour. You want to do culture or tech?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Well, it's funny because it's come around because in the 80s and 90s, they always had too many shows too. They would do, you know, the police dramas, a show like NYPD Blue, they tried to do 22 episodes of those. 90210 Melrose Place, they would have 32 episode seasons like that. And these were, you're basically on a soap opera schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And then I think when the cable started to have success and Sopranos was like 13 episodes, it tilted, right? And then it was like, oh, shorter, better. And then you've, you know, the network was over here trying to make as many as possible and the cable was over here. I thought where you were going And I think it ties into what you're saying. I think we've entered the white noise era.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I think the reason people don't care about what you're saying that much is because a lot of times the show's just on as they're doing two or three other things. It's like how you talked about the NBA. You kind of know what's going on with the NBA, but not really. I've watched shows... This would actually be a funny website.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I've watched shows where if I had to take a quiz after, I've watched entire shows, like 10 episodes. Like I just watched, what's that show? The show with James Marsden and Sterling K. Brown, Paradise. I watched every episode of Paradise. If I had to take a quiz and you asked me like, what's this person's name? What happened in episode three? I think I would get like a 50
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But I watched every minute of it. But I didn't really watch every minute of it. It was a great show to have on. It was a home run. And I would look up every once in a while. And I think Netflix knows this. I think Netflix has figured out some of their shows are just kind of like, have this on as you're doing other stuff. Isn't that the Meghan Markle show in a nutshell? It's interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I don't know what happens in that show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
It's the old way we used to watch SportsCenter where you just say, I'm just going to throw on SportsCenter and it's just going to run on a loop for four hours. And now people do that. I do this with, I'll go to Pluto and I'll be like, all right, cheers channel. I'll just throw that on for two hours as I'm doing something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Like I like how it's almost like different than listening to music, but not really because it's just sound that's happening and occasionally you look up and occasionally you look up. But I really do think I think you've stumbled into something because the degree of difficulty for keeping our attention has gone down so far. Like we're doing these White Lotus recaps, right? And I agree with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
If you just watch those first four episodes and you're not 100% locked in watching, you're basically just on vacation in Thailand and nothing's really happening. But we have to actually watch it to figure out. And there's like a lot of stuff buried in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
that I don't know if most people watch TV to look for that stuff anymore because they're just in Thailand wondering who the murder is gonna be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
One of the themes you hit pretty hard is what changed from the 40s and 50s and people trying to proactively come up with big picture ideas of how to change stuff, grow stuff, versus where we are now, wherever the hell we are now. What changed? What did you figure out? What was so different about post-World War II and the way we thought about everything versus the way we think about everything now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
You know what's different than this? Adolescence on Netflix. And I think one of the reasons it's being so well-received and it's excellent is it's just, they're not doing this. It's four episodes and they put a ton of thought into how they did it. And I actually like Paradise. I thought it was good, but I just, I think it's more like we're just damaged by how much TV...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
We were all watching, especially when we were all stuck inside that this is just kind of how it goes now. This is why Temptation Island on Netflix is going to do great this week. Look up every once in a while. They're in the temptation tank. Still being tempted. I'm going to look up. I'm going to stop sending the seaball. I want to see what happens. Now we're back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
All right, mine, I'm not positive this is going to work, but I do feel this way. Everyone's talking about how video podcasts are new talk shows, which, by the way, has happened years ago. I don't know why this became a narrative recently. I think the video podcasts are getting better because the equipment's getting better and more people are putting thought into how to do them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But we were doing video podcasts at Grantland in 2012. It's just everything looks better. The cameras are better. The studios are better. Everything's better. The question is what happens to actual talk shows? Because we always hear about video podcasts and new talk shows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And it got me thinking like, if Kimmel and Colbert and Fallon and Seth Meyers are the old school traditional late night talk shows, right? This format that we've had since the 1940s, basically. But then the new versions of them I mean, Mulaney's trying to do something on Netflix now. That's like a little 12 episode once a week run. Greg Gutfield is on Fox News.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Andy Cohen, I guess that's a talk show. First Take is sort of a talk show. They talk sports for two hours. It's regimented. It happens even though it's not like a Kimmel-type show. But then you think, and I include myself because I had a failed talk show on HBO. HBO, Showtime, Apple, Peacock, TBS, ESPN, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Fox, Comedy Central multiple times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
have all been launching talk shows over the last 10 years like it's the old model. Vice. None of them made it. And if one of them made it, I'm forgetting. Desus and Mero had a moment on Vice and went to Showtime and then that one broke up. But for the most part, this has been replaced by pods over the last 10 years and it's almost like we're finally realizing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And I wonder like when Kimmel and Fallon and Colbert leave, what happens to those time slots?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
That audience is going down for the TV, but all those shows do really well on YouTube. And that's what's kept them sustainable because they have awesome, huge YouTube footprints and social footprints. And that's how the shows have stayed relevant and in the conversation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Put up a new Prestige TV podcast. We did the White Lotus episode five recap, aka the Sam Rockwell episode. Fantastic. Check that out. It's a video podcast on Spotify. So is the new Rewatchables. We put up Days of Thunder. Me and Kyle Brandt and Chris Ryan. Tom Cruise's 16th rewatchables movies. He's got a three movie lead over De Niro and Pacino at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Or do they even try, though? Or do they just say, you know what? These three are the last three, right? Because Jimmy thought he was going to retire the last contract he stayed, you know? And it's like, at some point, if that show leaves, if he decides he's done, I don't even know how you replace it. How do you even, do you just throw somebody in there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Because we've seen, I just don't know what happens. Yeah. And maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it just gets all replaced by video putts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But you need to find the face of a show. Like the key with Jimmy was he got built up as that show because they just didn't cancel it. And he was able to get all his reps and build himself into an actual brand and it took a couple years. Would anyone have the patience to do that in 2025 when you're battling YouTube era and the YouTube economy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
He's like, I'm already making a shitload of money. No thanks. I'm going to be on every day. I can do once a week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But that's a bonus. The question is, could that exist again with the way the infrastructure is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Or it's Greg Gutfield. Tech. I don't know the answer to that. I was hesitant to do that one, but I feel like those three guys might be the last guys. Interesting. Because I don't know how you'd be able to build up the bench and make them as big as that generation because I thought when those guys all were building their shows, the model was still there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Now you saw Stewart come back to The Daily Show and reinvigorate it and show that you're going on. But he's also over 50. Last one, tech.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
We were doing so positive there for one second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
It's really good. I have one thing to add. Let's do it. This is a sub theory that I've had for a while that I think I've told my wife about. I don't know if I've said it on the pod. I think people who text too much That starts to become how you talk and just how you write. And just, and sometimes I'll meet people and I'm like, whoa, just their vocal patterns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I'm like, that's a person who texts a lot. It's like excited, thrilled, great. Like just like all these like exclamation point language. And you just think like, oh, that's somebody that probably can't put together nine straight sentences in a row.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Because when you're texting a lot, you're doing shortcuts and you're just trying to get the fastest possible thought out emotion, just trying to get it to somebody and then move on to the next thing. So it goes back to what you're saying. It's not just like the attention span's dropping. It's also how we're communicating. We're taking shortcuts to that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
If you're taking shortcuts to how you communicate, how are you going to communicate well? Mm-hmm. I worry about this with my kids the most. I feel like my daughter is a really good conversationalist, but she also texts a lot. I'm like, is this going to ruin her brain at some point?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Well, I'm going to get grim as well with my last one. So remember when COVID happened? And there was this whole wave afterwards where it was like, people have been telling this was going to happen for years, that the next pandemic was coming, that you have to be ready. And then people are like, look at this article in 2017. They laid out. Look at this in 2009. They laid out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
We knew this was, why didn't we know? I feel, I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like the next pandemic is actually going to be a massively crippling tech hack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
where the best, and it's going to be somebody who has bad intentions, the best way, like think about what's the best way to disrupt America other than all the easy ways to do it. It would be to disrupt how we use all of our digital stuff for like a long period of time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
If we lost the ability to communicate, to be able to pay for anything, to be able to consume for entertainment, to be able to turn on our alarm to protect our house, all of these different things. If somebody just incapacitated us in the worst way possible for like a week, What would happen?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And I know people think about this and worry about this, but now it's like, I just feel like with AI and all the stuff that people just seem to be getting better and better. When you think the old days of like just... Logging onto AOL in 1999 and how easy it would have been to just hack anybody's emails back then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And now we have all these buffers and different things and the iPhone and the iPad, they're constantly doing updates. And oh, you got to add this because they figured out some way to hack this. What happens if we get hacked and it's like a COVID level hack where we just get annihilated tech wise? Is that conceivable? It's the first time I've ever started thinking about this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
I think of the movie War Games from a million years ago. When the computer got start was thought they were playing chess and then decided to almost take us to the brink of a nuclear war. It was like, Oh, computers are scary. That was like 1982. Now we're like 17,000 levels beyond that. But, um, cause I was thinking, do you take money when you leave the house now? Do you have money on you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Just think about that. Think how crazy that is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Cause I was one of those people. I always wanted to have like a hundred dollars in cash in me at all times. The matter, the matter what age I was or at least 40 bucks or you just never know. I just always wanted to make sure I was covered. And now it's like, do you need, when do you use cash ever?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Unless you're tipping a Valley at a restaurant or a hotel or something, you could get through a month of your life without ever bringing out a dollar bill or a quarter. And what happens if that just goes away for two weeks?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And the other silver lining is I think there's a lot of people focused on this and worried about it. But it was something I was thinking of. All right. Well, that was a depressing ending. Derek Thompson, Abundance. It's out. You and Ezra Klein. You can listen to it on Spotify. You can buy it in a bookstore. You can buy the e-book. You can do all that. How long is the book tour? What are you doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Oh my God. Do you negotiate all of this with your wife? She signed off on this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Thank you, man. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Derek Thompson. Good luck with your book, Derek. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle as well. Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast every time on Spotify. You can also check out the Bill Simmons YouTube channel if you want to see clips and full episodes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And I'm going to be back on this podcast on Thursday. See you then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
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The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Yeah, you go back to the 60s, 70s, all the stuff you mentioned, post-Vietnam, post-the assassinations and all the conspiracy stuff that started during that era, which it's interesting to see how, and we talk about this a lot when we do rewatchables movies from that era, like how the movies reflect the mood of what America was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Like we did a Vietnam movie war series that we ran on Sean's big picture feed about all these different Vietnam movies, what they're actually trying to say about the disillusionment with people toward government, toward America, toward war, like just sending this whole generation of people just to get killed or come back named or paralyzed or God knows what.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And it feels like it started there and then it never really rallied out of it. And you look at the big politicians that made it. Reagan comes in the 80s and it's like, we're going to be the big American again. And we've got to beat Russia. And all of these politicians have kind of captured the mood of whatever the country is, which is where we are now with Trump.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
But I do feel like 60s and 70s, something shifts. We don't trust government anymore anymore. And I think that's part of why we can't fix any of this stuff, because do you trust the people who would want to fix it? I don't trust the people in California right now at the fires, like how they're trying to fix that. I don't think I don't trust one person who's in charge of any of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Speaking of video podcasts, Amy Poehler's new podcast, Good Hang with Amy Poehler. We launched it today. Very excited about it. You can listen to her talk to Martin Short. That's an episode. You can listen to her talk to Tina Fey. That's an episode. And we put a lot of time and work and effort into this. And Amy's the best. So I really hope this podcast becomes humongous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And that's a real thing. And I think a lot of people feel that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Well, you could feel it after the election. When it was this great big reckoning that probably should have happened years earlier, right? And then people, some of the stuff was, I don't know, kind of black comedy hilarious where you're like, really? You're saying all this now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
And I don't know why it wouldn't. Because again, Amy is the best. So congrats to her coming up on this podcast. Speaking of the best, we have Derek Thompson from the Plain English podcast. Every once in a while, he pops on and we talk about the future of everything. We have a gimmick for this. You've probably heard it in the past.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Like, you didn't realize that a lack of authenticity was maybe going to be a problem?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
this is podcast fault? You didn't have a better podcast front? What are you guys talking about? First of all, we need somebody who can inspire people from each party, right? Trump clearly inspired over half the country. That's why he won. So who's going to inspire people on the Democratic side? And we're going to talk about this when we do Future of Everything. But I was really surprised by
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
Everybody collectively going, whoa, now what? This didn't work. It was like watching, be like if the Phoenix suns ended the season and they're like, whoa, we finished 38 and 44. What happened? It's like, yeah, we were watching you lose games in real time. You're shocked now that that's your record.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson
So it feels like there's a reckoning now, but you know, like everything else that's going to depend on, can you find one, two, three, four people that will inspire people going forward? And I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Coming up, talking NBA Cup and the state of the NBA, boxing, land man, Timothy Chalamet. This is a great podcast. That's all next. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold Michelob Ultra. Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We had Bird and Magic in the league for a while. They don't play against each other in the finals, even though they have this great rivalry dating back to 79 when college basketball was way bigger than the NBA. Bird and Magic play each other during the same year CBS is like, you know what? We're showing all of these finals games live now. We're going to show them in primetime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We're going to really try to get behind the league. And they get Bird and Magic. They get a seven-game series. They get one of the great series in the history of the league. That happens. They have Michael Jordan on the Olympic team that summer coming into the league on the Chicago Bulls, the third biggest market they have. MJ happens. And then we're off. We get David Stern. We get Cable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We have USA and ESPN by that point. So as a little kid on the East Coast, all of a sudden I'm able, I couldn't see George Gervin and David Thompson or whoever in the 70s unless I went to the Boston Garden to see them. Now in the 80s, I can just pop on Cable. I can see Dominique Wilkins. I can see Isaiah Thomas. I can see Adrian Danley. Whoever I want, I can see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I can see Magic Johnson on the other coast. So that's happening. They're figuring out how to brand stuff better. Once MJ really gets going with the bulls, the NBA takes off. We get the NBA fantastic commercials and we have this incredible unicorn 15 year run bird versus magic Jordan, six titles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So you can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We have the Riley Knicks and Hakeem and Barkley and Isaiah's Pistons, the Blazers, Sean Kemp and GP Stockton and Malone. I didn't really like watching them that much, but I'm going to throw them in anyway. Uh, On and on and on it went. And it was the watershed time to ever be a basketball fan. It was the most talent concentrated into one area. Everyone's playing super hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The league was the most fun, I would say, in the late 80s, early 90s. And it just keeps, Jordan retires. They're fine because the Knicks make it that year. Jordan comes back. It becomes the biggest story, really, of anything other than maybe the decision with LeBron. Jordan wins three straight titles in a row in the Bulls, including the 72-win Bulls.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
as well next week on the rewatchables i think from next week is the first week we're going to be video pod on spotify for the rewatchables so you can watch it on our youtube channel ringer movies but more importantly you could watch it on spotify as you're listening to it you can just see our beautiful faces so stay tuned for that on this podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And the NBA just goes, it's just arrow pointing up. All of it's captured in the last dance. Well, what happens? We hit the danger zone again. MJ retires. Right after he retires, Lockout. No basketball for six, seven months. People are pissed because these guys are making so much money. The young guys are able to switch teams three, four years. Everyone starts getting mad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
All the ugly, casual racism stuff starts like percolating a little bit again. It's like as hip hop culture infected the NBA, Stern puts in a dress code. Wasn't great. Not great times. Well, what happens? We don't have an MJ successor. Grant Hill, KG, Tim Duncan, C-Web, Iverson, Shaq. We're an MJ successors. And then 2000, Kobe and Shaq. So we have Shaq and Kobe together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We kind of know something's happening with Kobe. And in the 2000 season, that's unicorn number four. Shaq and Kobe. Shaq fouls out of game four of the finals. Kobe comes in, puts on the Superman cape, wins the game. They end up winning the title. This is after they escaped against Portland the previous round. And now we have this crazy Kobe and Shaq run. That was like real drama, real theater.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They were great. The 2001 Laker team is probably one of the two best teams of the century. As of that's happening, a phenom named LeBron James is in high school. He's going to be in the 2003 draft with Carmelo and some others. And the league looks great from 2000 to 2003. That is our unicorn number four moment. Shaq and Kobe ending up on the same team in Los Angeles, California on the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Couldn't have worked out better. Well, we immediately hit the danger zone again in 2003. We have the Kobe incident and the trial. Not great. We have the 2003 and 2004 finals, which were rock fights, and ESPN Classic and NBA TV Hardware Classics, I think, are banned from showing any of those games. Defense got too good. The game got too physical. We had Kobe and Shaq falling apart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The game slowed down. The pace slowed down to the point that after the 2004 season, they had to add all these rule changes and these other legal defense stuff just to try to quicken stuff up again. And you had a league that was built around Tim Duncan. I think he's one of the seven best players of all time. Didn't really resonate with people like he should have. Dirk Nowitzki, German.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
KG, mostly stuck on bad teams except for 0-4. C-Web. Dwayne Wade. Angry Kobe. Young LeBron on crappy Cavs teams. it was grim. And I, if you remember, like when I was writing for page two, back when my fingers worked, I used to have a joke about how I was one of the last 20 NBA fans. And the joke was that the NBA kind of sucks now, but I still love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I, this was a gimmick that I would do because we were in real danger with the league culminating in the Oh six finals where we had the referee controversy with Dallas and Miami. And, uh, We've all agreed not to talk about the 2006 finals. Then the 2007 finals where the East was like in such bad shape. LeBron ends up making the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I'm going to start at the top with some thoughts about the NBA Cup, the final game, and also the state of the NBA because it's been a big topic lately. And I have some big picture thoughts about that. Chris Mannix joined us to talk about just the Jimmy Butler trade buzz in Vegas and some other NBA topics. And then really, I had him on to talk about boxing because we have a big card this weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's a heroic performance by him with just an awful Cavs team that I think would be a 14 seed if we had them in the season now. So things are grim. Things are bad. There's a lot of what's wrong. You can go back and search for my column archives, multiple what's wrong with the NBA column. What happens? Well, unicorn number five situation happens, 2008 to 2018.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
In short order, we get the probably illegal Pau Gasol trade where the Lakers just steal Pau Gasol. And nobody even else knows he's available. Thanks again to Chris Wallace for creating the second mini Kobe dynasty. Gasol and the Lakers. Now the Lakers are a contender. KG's already been traded to Boston. Now Boston's a contender. All of a sudden, we have Celtics-Lakers in 2008. And we're off, baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We're back. Kobe loses in 08, but wins the next two finals. Celtics are in there in 2010 against them. After 2010, LeBron, who can't get it done with Cleveland, the decision. Probably the single biggest off the court NBA moment that we've had other than MJ retiring. The decision. He changes teams. People lose their fucking minds. Goes to Miami. All of a sudden we have Miami LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We have aging but still fun Kobe on a contender Lakers. Aging but still fun Celtics. A bunch of great young players coming up like KD and Russ on the Thunder. It's just going and going and going. And then what happens? Curry and the Warriors show up. Curry reinvents basketball. He's hitting threes from all over the place with Klay Thompson. They have their little run.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This goes all the way through 2019. 2019 finals is the tipping point. Durant gets hurt. Klay gets hurt. That Warriors dynasty ends. Durant, we lose a year of his prime. We lose a whole year of Curry's prime with the Warriors. Really, two years. But that was our last unicorn stretch, 2008 to 2019. And then what happens? We're in danger again, starting in 2020. The bubble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The bubble ends this really fun NBA season we're having where LeBron and the Lakers, Kawhi and the Clippers, Giannis is on his way up, Jokic is on his way up, Embiid's on his way up, Tatum and Brown are on Boston, and it just feels like And then boom, the bubble, weird. The player movement becomes out of control. It just feels like every year guys are switching teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It starts to feel a little more like NBA 2K. Load management becomes a bigger story. The schedule's too long. We all hate it. They won't do anything about it. The three-point stuff. just gets worse and worse and worse. Now we have the Celtics shooting over 53s. So there's a sameness to a lot of the games that I think a lot of people are down on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I would encourage people to go back and watch some of the terrible post-ups in the 80s and 90s and see if you still don't like threes. But there's definitely a Curry effect with how the game is being played. The foreign stars are now all the best under 30 guys. And this is a league that dating back to Hakeem, who is just one of the best players I've ever seen in my life, but he wasn't from here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And he never resonated like an American guy. Now we have Jokic and Giannis and Luka and Embiid and Wemby and maybe even SGA if he can bounce back from a terrible NBA cup. and become, you know, a real guy this year, maybe take, okay, see the finals. Those are six guys that aren't from here And we're talking about when is the next star?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
My guy Usyk is fighting Fury, the rematch. So we're going to talk about that and some of the big heavyweight fights coming up. And then last but not least, CR, Chris Ryan. We did a couple things in studio yesterday that I taped for this podcast. One is about Landman, which is my favorite TV show of the decade, just hands down. Succession really started last decade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This is a league that's so beholden to the LeBron, Curry, Durant era and seems so afraid to pass the torch to the under 30 guys. You can see it with the TV schedule. OKC is on TV this year less than the Lakers, less than the Warriors because they keep feeding us LeBron and Curry. You watch ESPN, all the content they're doing on First Take and on the NBA Today, it's always Lakers, Lakers, Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They're playing the hits. And it's coming at the expense of trying to build up these new stars, which we even saw in the Olympics. I love the Olympics. I thought LeBron and Curry and Durant, watching those guys fend off Serbia and France, that was amazing stuff. but it did come at the expense of the next generation of guys who kind of needed a moment like that, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I think this league is, if there, if there's a criticism that I think is valid, it's, it's pushing these guys that have kind of already had their moment that were already great and trying to extract more great moments from them when there's probably not a lot of greatness left versus rolling the dice with some of the new guys, which is
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
you know, I see why they do it, but at the same time, like they gotta be pushing the younger guys more. And at the same time, like you have somebody like Edwards who is such a unique and original guy. And then he shows up for this season, he's shooting 12 threes a game and he's starting to look like everybody else I'm watching. So there's a sameness to the new guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And then you have somebody like Jokic, who is really bird and magic trapped in a Serbian seven-foot doughy body. But he's not from here. And for whatever reason, he doesn't cook with fans. I don't think the way he should. So my point, big picture, is that we've had five unicorn moments. And now we're due for a sixth. And this league has been around for eight decades.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And every time a unicorn moment, we're not even in the middle of one or we don't have one coming. Everybody thinks the NBA is in trouble. They're in danger. It's over. This is just the DNA of the league. And here's what's going to happen. There's going to be some new player that comes in, some new team, some new event. It's going to shift this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And all of a sudden we'll be like, oh, you know, it's like when we did the Vince McMahon documentary, Triple H had this great quote about when he was talking about when Stone Cold and Vince and that whole era. And he was like, I felt it's like an earthquake. It's like, did I feel that? Did something move? And you just kind of know from a narrative standpoint, something has moved.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And that's what the NBA needs right now. I don't know what that's going to be, but I'm going to bet on the 80-year history of the league and the fact that internationally, it's fine. This is an American problem. People are losing interest in America because they can watch fourth quarters of games on the NBA app. They can follow it like what Derek Thompson said on my podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You can follow the league without really watching it. So the ratings are down, but I'm not sure the interest is down. What they're missing, ironically, is what women's college basketball with the WNBA had, where Kaitlyn became somebody that people just wanted to watch. They just wanted to watch her games. They didn't care who she was playing. They didn't care what the stakes were.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They wanted to watch her. And that's why I think you could really make the case. She's more valuable than anyone the NBA has because she's the only must-watch basketball player right now other than the old guys in the NBA. So they have to figure out what is their unicorn moment. But my prediction is that it's the NBA. It's been 80 years. It's looked bleak before. They always bounce back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So I can say my favorite new show of this decade. And then we talked about Timothee Chalamet and the Bob Dylan movie and Chalamet's chances to win an Oscar? What should he do next? And more importantly, why hasn't he come on my fucking podcast yet? So we're gonna hit all that. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, I am taping this after the NBA Cup Final in Vegas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This is the league we have chosen. We're gonna take a break and we are going to come back with Chris Maddox. FanDuel wants you to win even bigger this NFL Thursday night. Right now, all customers can get a 30% catch-a-pass profit boost on the Thursday night football game. That means you can boost your NFL catch-a-pass bet by 30% and take home even more winnings during the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It's December. It's the season of giving, but let's be honest, you deserve a gift too. And what better gift than NFL Sunday Ticket? All the bye weeks are done. You need multi-view. You need the four games at once, especially with the early games. You got all these playoff implications.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
fantasy playoffs whatever else you're doing to make the season more exciting uh i always have the four games on the giant tv and then i try i'm lucky enough to have a couple other tvs because i do this for a living i try to have six games going at once so i could see everything but as we get later in the year and the games become even more meaningful sometimes i'll get wacky i'll just put one giant game on and then two smaller games on the tvs everyone's got their own thing
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You can skip the candles and the ugly sweaters this year. Gift yourself NFL Sunday ticket. Get the rest of the NFL regular season for only $49. What a deal. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS. You can get the Ringer Gambling Show as well, the Sunday Ringer pregame. Device and content restrictions apply to multi-view local and national games on YouTube TV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. All right. Chris Mannix is here. You can read him on Sports Illustrated. You can listen to his excellent boxing pod. He's got a basketball pod too. He's in Vegas. We're taping this before the NBA Cup tonight. So we're going to avoid that. You really came on to talk boxing. I'm going to save that. I'm going to put that over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Just quickly, some basketball stuff because you've been in Vegas for a couple of days. What's the big buzz? What are all the kids talking about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So I watched the fourth quarter in OT of the game last night against Detroit that they ended up losing in OT. He was incredible in that game. I think he had like a 35, 19, and 12, something like that. But it looked like playoff Jimmy was really trying hard. That team has a weird identity issue with Hero, who's been excellent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And it seems like over and over again at the end of games, it's just these Hero 27-footers or Butler. Bam's not involved really at all. And, uh, it's just, it's just a weird team to watch. It's not a team that's going to win four straight playoff rounds, but it seems like to me, we've seen this go a couple of different ways with the guy who maybe doesn't want to be there anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's got, you know, he's going to be a phrase at the end of the year. Maybe he's not, he's not happy. The team didn't give him an extension. He seems like he's moved toward the, I'm actually mad. I didn't get the extension and now I'm leaving after the year. I'm going to show everybody how awesome I am. And to me, I said this on the pod the other day, Houston's the team. You watch Houston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Were you there for the NBA Cup semifinals?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, and the other big part is an end-of-the-game guy, which they don't have. they, you really feel it. Like they have no chance in an OKC playoff series. They're just not going to be able to get shots they want. OKC just strangled them. You know, it's like, we're going to talk boxing later. It was like watching the boxer who just doesn't let the other guy breathe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And the guy just is trapped in the corner against the ropes, just trying to hang on. That's how I felt watching them offensively. Shangoon's probably the safest bet. I don't trust any of their perimeter guys. And they don't have that one guy who's like, all right, one point game, three minutes left, like kind of take us home. They go to Fred VanVleet. I don't trust Jalen Green at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Like he gone down the line, but I like a lot of their players and I do think they have an identity. And what's interesting is he fits in with the identity so perfectly. So I was saying a couple of days ago about Butler with Rozier. And then VanVleet's expiring's in there. And you load it with, you know, guys to make that, they have a bunch of expirings to make it work. And then they have picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And for Miami, it's just a reboot. They get cap space this summer. Nobody has cap space this summer. It's one of the crazy things. Yeah, and one other team, right? It's like Washington or, I think there's only two teams with 30 million and up. Miami could rig this. So all of a sudden they could have the most cap space and be, to me, it's a reboot destination thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The Milwaukee Bucks, they destroyed the Oklahoma City Thunder, who could not hit a shot. It happens. They looked young. They looked a little nervous. They looked like a team of young guys from Oklahoma City who had just spent the last five days in Las Vegas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
All of a sudden next year, they're a different team and a little more dangerous. And we've seen them do this multiple times in the last 20 years, right? Where it seems bleak, then all of a sudden they're back. So I'm working under the assumption they're trading them. You don't think they would possibly think that they could beat the Celtics and the Cavaliers and OKC?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I just can't believe they would think that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I saw you had that last week. As a Jokic guy, I loved it. And I was trying to talk myself into it. But that can't be the centerpiece. I mean, you don't think that, do you? Is Porter the centerpiece of a Butler trade?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
But now I don't have cap space next year. I do that. You don't. I'm committed to those three guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They looked like a team that didn't realize they were at the adult table where Giannis was sitting, who proceeded to unleash holy hell on them, which he's been doing basically for over a month now. I think the last 16 games, he's something like 34, 15, and 7. He doesn't shoot threes anymore. which I think, you know, not like he was jacking up 10 a game, but he was always shooting three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
After this year, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
you know who would root for that trade is the Celtics. Cause they'd be like, Oh wait, you're going to have Porter and hero and the same team in crunch time. This is great. It's like an all you can eat for who we're going to attack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Um, I I'm with you in the sense that I do like Porter as an asset a little more than I think other people, the contract, the back issues, like there's, there's real things to be scared about. Like the defense, the fact that he's been replaced during games and crunch time for Russell Westbrook for defensive purposes. Like there's red flags.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I love that he's played with Jokic for this long because that's like getting your fucking masters for how to play basketball. Right. There does seem like there's more there offensively. But to me, that's a guy I like. I'm looking at a team like Brooklyn or some of the other like Eastern Conference also rants. And if you're looking at Porter thinking like, you know what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens. People come over, they want a beer. They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or, I've never tried one of these. I've heard you talk about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
this is a guy who might be a 25 point game, point of game score on a different team. You know, right now he's in the corner a lot, or he's like just trying to play. Jokic and Murray are running everything. So what might that look like on a crappier team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
What could that look like on like the Pistons with what we watched, you know, with Tim Hardaway and Beasley are doing and Tobias Harris are doing that kind of shooting forward spot. What if you put Porter in there? So, yeah, listen, I would love to see Denver somehow improve this. I just don't know. I don't think Porter is enough to get somebody like Butler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And then Golden State feels like they shot their wad with the Melton thing. Now they can't put the salaries together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's certainly the most fun for the playoff run. I can't believe you said Jokic's defense was terrible. That really hurt my feelings as a number one Jokic lover. Because it's conditionally terrible because he's got great hands. He's he's jumping passing lanes. He gets steals like he's very active. He's good at breaking two on ones. There's things he does well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
But then you watch a game like the Kings last night where they're just getting basically whatever they want. And, you know, his lack of rim protection becomes more of a problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He, you know, would always kind of test it out. But now he's just like, I'm going to be early 2000 Shaq crossed with Spider-Man. And I think he's, as I'm recording this, he's plus 600 for MVP on FanDuel. And, you know, he's closed the gap with him and Jokic, as great as Jokic has been. Milwaukee seems like a real contender. OKC still seems like a contender. This is the league now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, and I think the too many minutes thing is a big problem, too. Is there any other Butler team? Because you threw out Denver the other day. Golden State and Houston were the two I was focusing on in the content I did. Is there... Is there anybody else we're not thinking of?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I don't know why Miami... And he would have to waive a no trade clause and he's not Bradley Beal anymore. If it was three years ago, Bradley Beal... I guess we could talk about it, but not the guy now. It doesn't seem like he can play for three straight weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I thought I was going to... Thursday, I had the Cam Johnson, Dennis Schroeder, Golden State. I did a whole thing about it. And I really thought that was going to be how it played out. And then they got Schroeder two days later. They didn't get Cam Johnson. And then the reporting people were saying they didn't want to put Kaminga on the table in a Cam Johnson trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I was really surprised by that because the contract that Cam Johnson's on versus what Kaminga is probably going to get for agency next year, 30 million, I'm guessing Johnson's like at 22. I'd just rather have Cam Johnson. I think he's a better asset.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I thought if they, and that's why I don't feel like that's dead yet because I think the more you stare at that, the more you think, ah, Cam Johnson at 22 is... just a good asset. That's like, if I was doing like top 30 best contracts in the league for non-rookie contract guys, Kim Johnson's in like the top 12, making 22 a year. So I don't think that's dead yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think they're holding on. The problem, though, you mentioned Schroeder before. I don't know if they can trade him in a trade where he's with other players because the trade deadline's early this year. It's like February 6th. So I think the trade they did for Schroeder, it's not in that two-month window where then you can repackage the guy for multiple guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
If you don't make threes, you know, you're probably not going to win if you're shooting 35 to 53s a game. If they're not going in, you don't have a chance, which ties into a bigger theme with what's going on with basketball right now. The last couple of weeks have been peak people asking me what's going on with the NBA. And, you know, part of it is the ratings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, that's great then. So they could do Kaminga... Wiggins, Schroeder, and they'd have to find a fourth guy somewhere like Podzemski, who I think they overvalued over the summer. I think it was one of the lessons of the summer. They're making him basically an untouchable, and he's just been really bad this year. Not totally his fault he's playing out of position, but he has been good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Why do you think it didn't work for him in Boston? Because this version of Schroeder now I really like, but in Boston, it just didn't work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I really like him too, because competitive... a good defensive player, like, just feisty. The feistiness now, you have him and you have Draymond and Kamiga gets a little feisty sometimes. Curry talks shit. Like, there's a little more of an identity with the team. The only other Butler I was looking at and trying to figure out anyway was the Cavs. Just... Does that even make sense?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Do they have the contracts? I just couldn't figure it out. And I'm not confident that they would do anything major anyway because they have great chemistry right now, and I don't think you'd want to fuck with that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Let me ask you, if salaries, if you could throw out salaries when you made trades, do you think the Celtics would trade Peyton Pritchard straight up for Giannis?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
How about Peyton Pritchard for Jimmy Butler?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This is an unbelievable season that he's having. I mean, this is beyond six man of the year. Like his per 36 stats now are nuts. Incredible. Shooting stats are nuts. He's in the running for one of the best six man seasons anyone's had since like John Havlicek for the Celtics. I can't believe what I'm watching.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So you can't even, you can barely put him in any trade. I would say if you're doing best contracts in the league, he's got to be in like the top three. He might even be number one. He's six million of the year. It's 7 million bucks. And also gives them the luxury of like, oh, Derek White's a little banged up tonight. We'll just play Pritchard. He'll score 29 in the starting spot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
because everyone loves to talk about ratings, even though the NBA just signed a $76 billion deal and the ratings don't ultimately really matter. It's an American thing more than a worldwide thing because the league's doing well globally. But when you look at big picture, what's going on with the league, you know, LeBron and Curry, they're old. They're making desperate changes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It's really great. I mean, the ceiling of this regular season Celtics team when everybody's back, I do feel like they have like a 16, 18 game winning streak in there somewhere before the season ends.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, if you're talking $7 million for Peyton Pritchard or $48 for Jimmy Butler, I think for the way this Celtics team's constructed, it is It really feels like you see this happen sometimes in basketball, in football, in baseball, in boxing. It seems like the game slowed down for him a little bit. He'll have these moments where all of a sudden he's doing old man post-up plays on shorter guards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's around the rim. He's like, oh, I'm going to do old man pickup basketball and just shoot a jump hook over this guy. It's been really impressive to watch. Speaking of boxing, big fight this weekend. My guy who I bet on every time he fights, I just parlay him with football teams. Usyk is the rematch against Fury. Usyk's never lost. Everybody's been looking forward to this fight. Is this to you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Will he finally get the credit he deserves as a main draw fight? Or what does Tyson Fury have left fight?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
My guy who no matter where I bet, I lose. Four against. I'm like 0 for my last six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Or I can't believe I didn't bet on him or whatever. Yeah. Every time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They just changed the all-star game again. They just did the NBA cup in Vegas. Too many foreign stars. That's another thing you keep hearing. The schedule is too long. I've been saying that for 20 years. We can't find any under 30 American superstars to carry the torch from LeBron and Curry. That's a valid thing. Too many threes. Too much sameness in the game. Can't really counter that. Too woke.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, the interesting thing about the first fight is the scorecards had it closer than I think I had it in my head when I was watching. I mean, Fury almost got knocked out. It seemed like it was a wrap. And he really got the shit kicked out of him. I think it was the ninth round. And then he definitely won the 12th round. The 11th round, I remember two of the judges gave it to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
One judge didn't, which was super suspicious. But I don't know. It was a split decision, but it really wasn't. I don't think anybody watching that fight thought, oh, I wonder who won. Fury's face looked worse. Everything looked worse. I just think Usyk reminds me so much of Pereira in the UFC where you just watch him and you're like, I don't know what the answer is to try to beat this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
At least in UFC, you could try to take the guy down and get him on the ground. With Usyk, I almost feel like it's got to be somebody like Bacoli just overpowering him and using a huge size. You know I'd bring Bacoli up. Just a huge size disadvantage because he is like a blown up cruiserweight. And maybe that's how to beat him. I just don't see Fury doing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
How dare you disparage Bacoli?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Nobody wants to fight Bacoli. He couldn't even get on the February 22nd card. They had to like push him to the next card, but he was supposed to. I mean, it seemed like Dubois was going to be the natural whatever. He didn't want to fight him. Dubois does not want to fight Bacoli.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Usyk has a lot of pieces of things that I've loved from guys in the past. Like he, as the fight goes on, it just seems like he shrinks the ring and figures out the exact distance, how to hit the guy with the little tiny punches that don't seem like a big deal. And then they kind of add up, but there's like pieces of Hopkins in there. There's pieces of Cesar Chavez in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The league's too woke. It's driven off a lot of possible fans. I'm not touching that one. It's an American problem and it's not a worldwide problem because again, worldwide, internationally, the league is doing really well, but it's an American problem. And yet the franchise values are the highest it's ever been. They just got the highest meteorites deal they've ever gotten.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Like they're just those guys that just, there's one fight, the first four rounds, and then the fight starts to shift and you can kind of feel it. And I don't really know what the answer is to beating him, but I just know I'm going to be betting on him every time he fights. He's 37. I don't know how many more of these he has left, but I mean, he, if you look back at his, he's 22 and oh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He beat Joshua twice, beat Dubois, beat Fury already, could be beating him again. He was dominant as a cruiserweight. Go back to the 2012 gold medal in that whole era. Like, he was beating all those guys. And I don't... Like, if he wins this, like... What's next? Because you could fight... Dubois and Parker are fighting February 22nd. So is Zhang and Cabell. So maybe it's one of those two?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Who's the next fight?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Which is one of the things that made Fury special was at his size. He was like kind of a sneaky good boxer, but not compared to this kid. I'm glad you brought up Chisora. I think he's lost to everybody in the division at this point, right? He's still going. So it's not over yet. So is there a cruiserweight that could move up?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They have, I would say 35 to 40 completely recognizable stars, whereas football might have 10. So it's not like this is a disaster, but this is what we do with the NBA. We love to panic. We love to talk about how things are bad. And it's a little like what SNL is like, where everybody's like, SNL's dead, SNL's done. And then guess what? SNL's gonna have its 50th year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, I remember that happened with Holyfield. It took him a couple to feel like he was a heavyweight, and then it happened. Well, on FanDuel right now, he's minus 166, Usyk, which I just think is nuts. I don't understand... at this point in his career from everything we've seen, how he's not minus 250 against everyone else in that division. Just blind.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
There's not one person that he shouldn't be minus 250 against.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, probably the maddest people get at you is is either something you wrote about LeBron or they didn't like how you scored round four in the third to last fight on the zone thing, right? People just go nuts about the scoring. I had to go nuts watching it. I get so mad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, the other thing, when you're sitting close, you might miss, like, the biggest punch of the round because the ref blocked you or, you know, it's not an exact science. Before we go, we got to talk about the supercard on February 26th, or February 22nd. I don't know if there's been a card like this like the third, fourth best fight on this card would be the best fight on a Saturday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
We've talked in the past about how the Saudis and all this overseas money and they're just like, we want everybody good to fight each other and that's what we want. This seems like the full culmination of that. This is one of the best boxing cards of all time. When you saw it all laid out, were you shocked? Like they didn't even have room for Bacoli.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This is an American problem, and this is eight decades of a recurring theme that I would call the NBA is in danger, that we're now living through again in December 2024. I want to go backwards. I want to go through eight decades of NBA history to show that for the most part, this is a league that's kind of always a little bit in danger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They were like, now we're moving you over, moving your fight later. This is one of the, we have super middleweight, lightweight, welterweight, better BF against B-ball, Dubois against Parker, Zhang's fighting Cabell. Like it's a fucking crazy card.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So you get these guys, this is UFC though. Like UFC has changed the thinking on this. Cause there'll be some UFC cards that you could watch for five straight hours. And they, they kind of want that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This is like Thanksgiving. It's like, should we have sweet potatoes and mashed potatoes and stuffing? And like, fuck it. Let's just go for it. To me, this is like a once in a decade kind of card. I don't know if they'll be able to replicate this many fights in a row. I've never seen anything like this where you literally can't miss the first of seven fights.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And the best thing is Stevenson, who I think is my least favorite good guy to watch. And now he's buried on this card with six other fights. So I don't have to... you know, be like, how do I get it? I don't really like watching this guy. And now it's like he's just one of the many, but somehow they left out my guy Bacoli. So I have to get, do I have to get Bacoli on a podcast?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Like football, dating back to the John Unitas beating the Giants in the late 50s, the greatest game ever played to that point. Football has always been solid. 50s, 60s, 70s, Super Bowl, the merger. It's just been going and going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Try to try to pump them up. What do I need to do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket of Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra. a superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2024, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra, registered light beer, St. Louis, Missouri. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I wonder like this card so good. I wonder if you almost need to play by play guys, uh, Is it too much to ask? It's almost like you have to go WWF or they have the two different play-by-play guys for the five-hour card. I don't even know if Gus Johnson would be able to go for seven straight hours with boxing like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
February 22nd. February turning into a surprisingly good sports month. It used to be like the dead month, but now all these different places have figured out like the trade. They moved the trade deadline up somehow against the Super Bowl and then a whole bunch of stuff happening. Chris Mannix, great to see you. Have fun at the NBA Cup tonight. I hope all's well with you. You got it, man. Thanks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The only time I ever remember people even wondering what the future of football was going to be like, and I was one of the ones wondering, was the early 2010s with concussions, Goodell. We had to add a bunch of stuff with Gates after it. It seemed like they had to change the way that football was being played because it was too violent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This episode is brought to you by Uber Reserve. You know what's a game changer for travel? Booking my ride in advance to the airport with Uber Reserve. Uber Reserve makes it easy to plan my whole trip. I just did this. Booking rides up to 90 days in advance to help squeeze the most out of traveling, especially if you're doing odd hours, rush hours, like early in the morning. You got to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Plus, with Uber Reserve, you'll get an assigned driver You get upfront pricing and you get extra wait time included. So go ahead, plan like a pro. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See app for details. All right, coming up, you're going to hear two things I taped with Chris Ryan on Monday. The first is about Timothee Chalamet in the Bob Dylan movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Tried not to have any spoilers in this, so we're going to play that. And then after that, we're going to move right to Landman. my favorite new show of the 2020s. So me and Chris Ryan right now. All right, I'm here with Chris Ryan. It is less than 10 days until the Bob Dylan movie comes out with Chalamet. A complete unknown. You've seen it. I have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I saw it over the weekend on the Producers Guild app. Must be nice. Low expectations. I don't want to step on your pod with Sean because I know you have a big pod coming out at Christmas. The thing that jumped out to me was how good Chalamet was. Yeah. And I intentionally tried not to read anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I wasn't that excited about the movie because I've never loved Bob Dylan just because my entire life, everyone's just talked about what kind of a moody dick he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
A lot of reading, a lot of philosophizing. I liked the music, respected it. My parents really liked him. He means a lot to my mom, but we kind of know him, the older version of Bob Dylan, where it's just like kind of, Kind of mutters. Anyway, Chalamet was great. Yes. As you know, I love when people sing in movies. Val Kilmer in The Doors was one of those.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I always thought he never got enough credit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. He does a really good job. And I don't understand why he's not a prohibitive singer. Best actor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And there was a moment there where it was like, where's football? Are you gonna let your sons play football? Are we gonna be watching this in 20 years? And guess what? COVID happened and everybody was like, you know what? I love football. And now football feels like it's the biggest it's ever been. If you're talking about basketball, It's always been on the line of being in danger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Chalamet, this is great for the Oscars. He'll definitely get nominated. And it will feel like a younger hit for Oscars. But I got to be honest, I wasn't positive he had a performance like this in him. I didn't see a musical side of Chalamet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. You shed your Grantland teen idol stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I hate that. But yeah, no. So now this opens up. He has this. I think he's going to win the Oscar. Yeah. I'd be surprised if he didn't. I think he'll get a lot of momentum because it's so surprising how good he is in this. Yes. In a movie, that probably shouldn't work. In a movie, I'm not even positive. I don't want to step on your take because you have the whole pot, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I'm not positive I love the movie that much, but I love the performances in it. I thought he was great. I thought, what's the Top Gun lady's name?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Norton.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Like, Walk the Line was the same thing. People were like, I love Phoenix. I loved Reese. The movie was solid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It has something in common with The Star is Born when we heard word about this. And then there was like the initial clips and you think, oh no. No, brother. Oh boy. Here we go. You know, we've seen people make, go this way and make the mistake. But anyway, you mentioned the press tour with Chalamet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Okay. I've wanted to have him on for years. I know he's a big Knicks fan. He seems like a genuine sports fan. He seems like a nut. And we put the stuff out. I don't know how his team decides. So this is the Chalamet, the challenge. Chalamet, come on the pod. Let's find out once and for all how much sports you know. I saw you on college game day. It was convincing. But I also know he's an actor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So you go back to the 40s and 50s, the first 15 years of the league. The league, by the time we got to 1954, the league was in complete chaos. The pace was too slow. There was no shot clock. People were just fouling each other, trying to dribble out the clock. George Mikan was dominating everything, and the league kind of sucked. And then they came up with a shot clock. That fixed some of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. And he could memorize, what, four or five pages of script of dialogue in one day. He couldn't have remembered like six picks that his buddy gave him. And I want to like really dive in with the Chalamet sports experience.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Let's have the deep dive mix combo that you've never really had on a podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, let's talk real college hoops. Do you gamble? Where do you gamble? What sites do you use? Are you a friend of FanDuel? How'd you do last week on NFL picks? How deep does this go? Do you play fantasy football?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
No, I'm doing well this year. I just had a bad last week because of your team, the Eagles. Yeah, come on. Let's really see it once and for all. Do you have takes on the Super Bowl? Lions defense is banged up. What do you think, Chalamet? Let's go. Why is NBA ratings down? NBA ratings down, why? What are your reasons?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Come on the pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I want to pitch him, which I've done in the past, I did with Michael B. Jordan to much success,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
a couple roles that I think he should play now if he wins the best actor what's next heist movie really well done rom-com and then what would be the third one just stuff for us so I pitched heist movie is he bad it's a sports movie sports movie coach for Greenwald I pitched him Timothy Chalamet as a iconoclastic offensive coordinator like the Ben Johnson story
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. He just kind of unravels because he was his quarterback. He only runs so many slants.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Starring Chalamet as the offensive coordinator of the Dolphins who's falling behind with gamblers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Another one's down. So sports movie, heist movie. Yeah. Does he need to be in a there's something wrong with the house movie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Or like if we're... I'm having fun with this, but if we're... If he's going to do the Leo playbook, just... checkmark, best director, one after the other. You work with all the greats. That's what Leo did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Chalamet, just the trailers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
If he wants to cash in though, you've come up with some spy franchise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. You come up with your own or Mission Impossible. You come up with your own version of that. But maybe you mix it with sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's Rich Paul crossed with a spy. It's like, clutch as a front for all the espionage work he's doing. Now it's just like the young Scott Boris story. That's true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It was still really violent. It was a lot like hockey back then. There wasn't nearly enough scoring. They had a big betting scandal. That was a big thing. There were barely any black players, kind of a problem. All the best black players were playing for the Harlem Globetrotters, other places, because they wouldn't let them in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, out of all these ideas, the best idea is Mike McDaniel crossing pain and gain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, whatever the case, shall we? Come on the podcast. Let's do this once and for all. Let's talk about future roles. You can run, but you can't hide, Tim. Let's talk Amar Stoudemire. Yeah. Let's talk Carmelo. Does he have thoughts on the Carmelo marrow pod? Like, I want to know all this stuff. Just come on the pod. Come open a six pack with Bill. Come on. You're going to win best actor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Come on the pod. This episode is brought to you by Bank of America. Money decisions don't have to be either or. With Bank of America, they can be yes and, as in yes to grabbing the latest merch and building up your budget for next season's tickets. Our digital tools help you create the future you want and help you keep enjoying today too. Do more with the bank that asks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
To learn more, Bose Personal Plus Sound System is an available feature. Bose is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Intelligent all-wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. All right, we're taping this after the sixth episode of Landman Ran. So there's spoilers in this. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
See, I was making my all-time TV rankings. All-time, like, anything ever broadcast on television or streaming. I think Landman's, like, third. This is the greatest show of this decade. I can't believe how much I love it. It's the first show in a while that... When we're getting toward there's five minutes left, seven minutes left, I'm like, oh, man, there's only seven minutes left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Please, no. I can't wait a week. This sixth episode was the best episode of the season. It was incredible. It's everything we want from a dumb TV show like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And when you think back to where the NBA was, even in the mid-50s when Russell showed up, it was regional. Everything was in the East Coast or like the Pennsylvania area, the fringes of the Midwest. There were no West Coast teams. And the NFL was bigger. College football and college basketball were bigger. Baseball was bigger. Boxing, horse racing. Name a sport.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Think of the three things you just mentioned. And it's like a hybrid of all of those things. One of the things, because we were talking to Fantasy about it. He'd only watched the first three and he's in like movies right now. And I feel like he hasn't paid 100% attention. Because if he did, he would understand. But I do feel like the second three episodes, the show really fell into place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It was almost like shared and needed a... get a feel for the actors that he had. And once he realized, like, I just got to let Billy Bob and Ali Larder cook in every scene possible. This is the most I've liked Billy Bob literally in 20 plus years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Right. It was like she hadn't finished her previous job yet. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, all right, so let's unwind this. So Billy Bob, this is basically the same theme as what he struck away with with Koster and Yellowstone. Yeah. A really good, likable, charismatic actor who hadn't been really great in a role in a while and then Sheridan just unlocks it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This is all of the things I love about Billy Bob Thornton. And even like there's a little of the Friday Night Lights coach in here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Right. Yeah. And this guy's been around forever. And when he's in the right role, he's perfect. But in this, he's like super perfect. Then Allie Larder, who I think all of us who had the Varsity Blues run. Then she had the Heroes run. And I think everybody likes her, but I hadn't seen her in anything. And this is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I was saying to you earlier, there's that story about Starship Troopers that Casper Van Diem He thought he was in a serious drama, like a Spielberg movie and everybody else knew what it was actually was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It was probably dead even with hockey. Get to the 60s. Russell's in there. We start finally getting some black stars. We get Elgin Baylor. We get Oscar. We get Will Chamberlain. And the 60s becomes, you know, Wilt versus Russell. Celtics dominance. It's still not going awesome. We still don't have like a definitive. The league is fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
She's Dion Waiters multiplied by 700. And her and Billy Bob are great together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Allie Larder's part is a hundred times bigger than that. Demi Moore has had eight lines and they filmed her from like 30 yards away in every scene. Yeah. And I don't know why she's in the show other than maybe they...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And he's wiry, and I don't know how tall he is, but yet still believable when he stands up for himself. And I was attached to him within two episodes. He starts hanging out. First of all, we didn't mention Michael Pena, who's in the credits in the first episode. Yes. And my shit detector's going off the whole time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Oh, yeah. But they basically did the same thing they did with Kyle Chandler. On Kingstown. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. So he dies. And then that sets off like his widow, all of a sudden, and you just know, it's like, oh man, this is going to go up. His friends, the dead guy's friends didn't like, they don't like where they, and you just kind of know, but I still love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It's a great point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I feel like he has complete handle on who his character is. what like his baggage is as a human being, who he has to answer to, that he can get mean. That's why episode six was so big because it was like, I know there's a dark side with this guy and we haven't really seen it 100% in the show. And then in episode six, you see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And the whole show's leading up to him confronting these guys who beat up his son. And the moment he locks in, You're just like, honestly, it's like watching like a Michael Mann movie or something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
moment and at the same time this is one of the most tumultuous decades in american history there's a whole civil rights battle happening there's assassinations all over the place and you know a league that's becoming a mostly black league had had a pretty strange fit among all that especially as russell is becoming one of the dominant athletes we've ever had and a huge spokesman along with ollie and jim brown and some others
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
This show checks so many boxes that just work for a TV show. Like, what is this world? This weird oil world. I don't really know this. Oh, now you're bringing me into it. Now I kind of feel like, what's it like for the crews that work, you know, on these oil rigs or like they're like, oh, this is like this whole little community with these little mini houses. Then it's like the ham part.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
What's it like if you own this thing? Who do you deal with? The ham part's interesting because I don't feel like that's fully baked yet. And I'm not sure how much time Ham had to film the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Who was getting a little flirty with Billy Bob and then Allie Larder's character squashed it. But she's just an assassin. Yeah. And so in episode six, she goes to see the widow and they're like, here's the check. And then they're doing a little back and forth and the widow smartly asks, well, wait a second, what do you guys get out of this? And she's like... just lays it out as cold as possible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Then the daughter is the other one. There's five or six really good characters that I want to know more about that I'm willing to go on a couple journeys with. But the most important thing to me, this is the best show Jon Hamm's ever done. You know, people say Mad Men. It's going to get aggregated. No, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
That's going on Hoopsite. People say Mad Men. I say watch Landman for a couple episodes. No, I'm psyched for him. I can't even tell. Maybe he only had five shooting days in a month. Billy Bob seems to be the only one who was fully committed for the six episodes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Well, and the thing with Sheridan and he figured out, he laid the groundwork for her with the first couple years of Yellowstone. He's made a bunch of shows, obviously, but to me, this is his apex. This is just like, he's taken all the lessons he's done on all these different shows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And he's like, how can I make the most entertaining show possible about the oral world in Texas with, and just let some actors cook.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. Yeah. And the ex-wife stuff, you know, that's not going to last. How that's going to go bad. But there's so many good touches. Like she goes back to get divorced, right? In episode six. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And he's like, well, bring your toothbrush. Yes. And she goes, there's a whole party in the back, but they... The other thing is I like the houses. Like it's just these weird, crazy mansions you would never see in any other walk of life. They've done a good job with that. For Sheridan though, I just feel like he's figured it out once and for all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
So the league is gaining steam from an impact standpoint, but it still hasn't hit the popular piece yet. And then we have our first unicorn situation. There's five unicorn situations total. And I want you to remember this because we're going to tie it back in at the end. So this first unicorn situation, the 1969 finals, which turned out to be Russell's last NBA finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think this is going to be the biggest show he's ever had. And I know Yellowstone was the biggest show of the last 10 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
That's the next iteration of this is some big-ass stars coming in because that's somewhat what happened with Yellowstone. But I think Yellowstone was a big show that we're all like, wait, is that a big show? And people were kind of stealth watching it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, and then COVID, it felt like everybody caught up and then all of a sudden that became the biggest TV show. Yeah. you know, it definitely went a little sideways once the Costner thing got weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. So this is like, there's the Prestige TV stuff that we talk about that we have the podcast named after it. And there's a certain like just elite scripted. Yeah, White Lotus kind of thing. And then there's like the Yellowstone side of stuff. There's this middle ground between those two worlds that's the hardest thing to like straddle both lines.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And I feel like this is one of the only shows that has done that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You know, where it's like, This show is not far away from being a real prestige show, but it doesn't want to be. Yeah, it wants to be funny and crazy and have music.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, the rest of the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
one of the big lessons I've learned that if my son ever watches this is maybe don't get involved with the widow as a kid. Just, just, just point blank.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Who has the friends that are threatening you with guns? The moment you like spend, you're just raking your front yard. There's multiple, maybe like fine. There's lots of fish in the sea, buddy. Yeah. Um, no, I like, I think all the actors in this are really good too. That's the other thing. Yeah. Like she's good. The, the actress who plays the widow, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Oh, is that true?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's the competition all time for a show like this? All time? I'm saying like that middle ground between prestige and like just going for it. I'm trying to think of other shows that were like this. Because like White Lotus was way more on the prestige side. You know, was goofy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
He's going for his 11th title. They're underdogs against the Lakers. We finally have a California team. We have Jerry West and Will Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor and the Lakers are favored to win game seven in LA. Russell beats them. And it turns out to be like the first great modern NBA finals game that we had.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just, this is the hardest competition.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
But this show's literally for everybody. I know. There's not one person in my life who wouldn't like Landman. And if they didn't like Landman, I don't, I'd have to reevaluate my relationship with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
like a part of this you'll like the oil stuff you'll like the the Cooper stuff you'll like the love affair between Allie Larder and Billy Bob Thornton there's something in here that you will like I couldn't get my dad to watch it and cause he's like ah Yellowstone I got sports I got a lot to I'm like dad if you don't fucking watch Landman I'm gonna like fly to Boston and I'm gonna just tie you up in front of the sofa and make you watch the episode so he started watching of course he's on My Paramount cause he doesn't know how to pay for any streamer
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And so he's like, yeah, I watched the first two. It's good. And then he watched the third one. He's like, third one was good. And then the fourth one is like texting me. Did you see Landman? So I went to watch the one last night after I did my pod on Sunday night. It had already been watched. I had to like start it over. My dad was just like, right. Yeah. So I was like, oh, he's all in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
There's no other explanation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I don't understand how he does it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Nobody, is there other people? Does he have like five people under him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
That's a good comparison. Yeah. And West Wing was close to the prestige side too, but it was just a really well done, well acted fun show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I just picture Sheridan in the writer's room and he's like, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah, he's just by himself with a dog and he's just like, man, I haven't had anyone blow up or had some terrible thing happen in an episode and a half. Yeah. I'm just going to have this guy step on a bunch of pipes and then fall under and get crushed by them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The next year, the Knicks, everyone in New York is like so delighted the Knicks are finally good at basketball. Like the Celtics are gone. They have a chance to win the title. 1970 finals, Willis gets hurt, comes back game seven, becomes one of the most famous games in NBA history. Also, Will kind of chokes. Uh, so we have that Kareem enters the league that same year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
It'd be funny if we had like the first take type of infrastructure for TV showrunners. And it was just like, it's Sheridan the goat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
That would be great. Yeah. Just an entire first take. Wind power.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
What's Allie Larder's character's name?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
I think her name is Allie Larder on the show. Angela. Angela.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
What a win for her. I'm so happy for her. I'm happy for Billy Bob. I'm happy for everyone on the show. I'm happy for us. Yeah. So it's 10 episodes? I think so. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Yeah. This is a beloved piece of art. Watch Landman. It's really good. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Chris Mannix. Thanks to Chris Ryan. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti. As always, thanks to Jack Sanders for helping out last night with Craig Horlbeck as we taped some stuff with CR. And I will be back on Thursday with another podcast. See you then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And then in 1971, he wins the title. He's the most Ballyhoo Ballyhoo college player. Um, to that point to somebody that's considered to be a successor to Russell and Wilt. So he's in the league. And then the next year, 71, 72, the Lakers went 33 straight. Jerry West finally wins the title. So you have this four year unicorn run, all these crazy events, and it propels the league up. A level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And all of a sudden now the NBA is looking really good. Well, we have to go back to the danger zone again. From 1973 to 1976, they overexpand. They make the classic mistake of they just add too many teams. The ABA has formed and is stealing a lot of the young players. So all of a sudden the quality of the play is starting to go down. The quality of officiating is starting to go down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
ABC loses the NBA to CBS because CBS kind of double crosses Rune Arledge, who's the most important sports executive probably of all time. And Rune Arledge is pissed and decides to counter Bergeron and the living shit out of the NBA. College football, college basketball, wide world of sports, the superstars competition. And he just makes it his life's mission to set the NBA backwards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
There's a salary boom that happens where all of a sudden you have, Um, some guys that aren't doing that well, who are making a lot of money and everyone's really aware of it. Sidney Wicks, Pete Maravich, Spencer Haywood. So there's animosity toward basketball players for the first time. The Nixon Lakers are, are, are done at that point by the time we get to the mid seventies.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
And they have the future of the league, or so we would have thought on paper, Dr. J, Julius Erving, he's in the ABA. He's not even on television. So the NBA not only is getting older with some of their older stars, like Havlicek, Jerry West, all the guys from the previous generation, Oscar.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
But Doc, the guy who's supposed to come in and carry the league with Kareem, is in the wrong league and not on TV. And I'm a young kid in Boston. I would have loved watching Dr. J. Not on TV. So, again, we're in danger. And then what happens? We have a second unicorn situation. The 1976 finals. Havlicek and Callens on Boston, two of the most famous guys in the league. They're playing Phoenix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Triple overtime game. I was lucky enough to be at the game with my dad. I was six years old. I might have slept through the fourth quarter in the first two overtimes. But it turns out to be the greatest game in the history of the league. Celtics win the title. The NBA is back. The ABA merges into the NBA that summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
All of a sudden we have Dr. J, David Thompson, George Girvin, George McGinnis, Moses Malone. All these guys are now in the NBA and the NBA has 22 teams and stacked and it's awesome. And that leads to Kareem jumping to, Kareem's already in LA. Walton's on the Blazers. The Blazers take off that year. And it's a late run. Second half of the year into the playoffs, they beat Kareem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
They end up beating Dr. J and Philly in the finals. Bill Walton, turns out maybe he's the next Bill Russell. Everybody's in love with the guy. He's got the beard. He takes the jersey off after they win. So this is unicorn number two situation. 76 finals, 77 finals. Basketball seems like it's in the best shape that it's been in maybe ever. What happens?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You go back to the danger zone, the late 70s into the early 80s. Wong gets hurt the next year, never really recovers. And it would be like when Binyama won the title this year and then just got hurt and we didn't see him for six years. The cocaine era happens. And the cocaine, that's hitting all the sports, that's hitting Hollywood, that's hitting the comedy circles. Cocaine starts to wipe out
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Order now for game day. Terms, taxes, and fees apply. See app for details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables last night. Chris Ryan and I did The Gambler, a movie that came out 10 years ago with Mark Wahlberg. One of our favorite gambling movies. A really kind of deep, fun movie to talk about and make fun of and also appreciate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Pretty much everybody starting in 1978, and it does some real damage to the NBA and cut short some careers, changes the course of some careers. Some young stars that they're counting on go sideways. So you have that. You have the Kermit Washington punch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
in late 1977 in that 77 78 season where he punches rudy tom janovich a white guy and all this ugly stuff surfaces up all the casual racism that people felt toward you know a mostly black league being being catered and sold to mostly white fans that all pops up and this crazy two-year run of of you can go back and read some of the old sports illustrated things about the league's too black
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
that it's never going to work. And it's just, it fucking goes crazy in a bad, bad, bad way. In a way that even as a little kid, I was kind of noticing the way they were talking about it. It was not great. We had the dumb owner apex back then. This is when basically anybody could buy an NBA team and you just had these dumb owners. Like the Celtics for a year had John White Brown. He was terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
Um, just dumb owners making dumb trades, not trying to build anything. So the teams that are just in constant chaos, you have the dumb commissioner apex to Larry O'Brien, who's awful. David Stern comes in and looks a hundred times better compared to him. A few years later, you have CBS fucking up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
The playoffs either do tape delaying the primetime games or making the NBA schedule weekend playoff games so that you're playing game three and game four of a series back-to-back days. So they could care less about the health of the players. They really didn't want to show the NBA because it wasn't doing that well. So you had that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
You had college hoops, the NFL, baseball, NHL, boxing, college football, and horse racing are all more popular in the NBA by the end of the 70s because they have the Washington-Seattle finals twice a row, which are great basketball finals, but not exactly a marquee finals. And all of it is eventually captured in Breaks of the Game by David Halberstam, the best sports book of all time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan
That comes out, I think, in 82. But the NBA, like the Lakers play the Sixers, I think, in 82 and 83. And... Some of those games weren't even on live television. They weren't on until 1130 on the East Coast. That's how bad it was for the NBA. So I'm going to say a little more dangerous than right now. Leading to our third unicorn situation, the 1984 finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, the NBA season hitting full stride. Don't miss your chance to win some money with America's number one sports book. I mean, post-trade deadline. We had one of the craziest trade deadlines we've ever had in the history of the league. We have Fox on San Antonio, Luka on the Lakers, Kuzma on the Bucks. Kidding. The Cavs got better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It's too much money, there's no way he walks away. It's too much money. And this is, one thing I think people forget with the super duper famous celebrities, it's expensive to be a super duper famous celebrity. Because everywhere you go, you're paying for some private jet. In his case, he got divorced. As much money as he's made, he still needs way more money to sustain the lifestyle he does.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And this is a $37.5 million check every year. He's not giving it up if he doesn't have to. It's not that hard of a job. It's 22 weeks. You study one game. You fly to the site. You have to keep in touch with the league a little bit, but not really. The stunning thing to me is Belichick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I, you know, this is not a midlife crisis because he's in his mid seventies, but even he was at Super Bowl, you know, he was at a couple of parties. He was walking around with his girlfriend. We saw him at the Fanatics party on Saturday. It's just surreal. This guy who was wearing this, you know, saggy hoodie on the sidelines who just could care less what anyone thought.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
You can put it in your phone. You can just listen to it. You can pull your phone out. You can watch it. You can go on your smart TV, your PS5, your Roku, your Apple TV, wherever you want to get it and watch it. on the Spotify app, whatever you want to do, knock yourself out. We are a video podcast from now on. I've had this podcast since 2007.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Now he's in the Dunkin' Donuts commercial. With the girlfriend and this girlfriend's five years older than my daughter, there was a lot of like, what the fuck is going on with this guy's stuff in New Orleans over the weekend? And he was wearing all the rings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I'm really starting to wonder, this is a working theory, I'm not done with it yet, but like 75 and up are just all bets off. It's just like literally are all bets off. We're talking about owners. Cause in sports as fans, we have to deal with so many, so many old people. And we, we all have old people in our family. You could see what happens as they hit their seventies, then their eighties.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And the judgment just gets a little, little nuts. And I just wonder with Belichick, like, I just, I can't believe some of this. I really find it hard to believe he's coaching North Carolina too. I get it. I understand why he did it. He didn't want to deal with owners anymore. He just wants to be a coach, all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
But yet at the same time, he's seems like the celebrity aspect of this has become really appealing to him, which I never in a million years would have guessed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
really strange relationship with his owner and just kind of kept his little, it's just basically in a cave, just, you know, going through film.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I thought that was the weirdest subplot of the weekend. Um, then the funny, other funny thing that I immediately thought of you. We always call it the Friday news dump. What the Sixers did with the Joel Embiid information that they held and held and held and pushed out right after the Eagles won the Super Bowl. It was, I don't even, what do we call it? This is a new level of news dump.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The Super Bowl title. We didn't want to bum out our city. This was our only chance to put this out. News dump. What is this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Why is there yellow tape and a door locked in the guest bathroom? Don't go in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Unprecedented. The best news dump I think ever. I never ever remember a team pulling that off better. This crazy and beat article where it's like, yeah, I'm probably never going to be healthy again. I may need surgery. I shouldn't have played the Olympics. It turns out all that. It's like, oh my God, if they put that out on a Tuesday, it would have been like a 36 hour story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Instead, it just kind of came and went in 10 seconds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So year 18, it's basically now, I guess, a TV show, a very low budget TV show, as you can see with my hastily put together posters behind me. This podcast, really fun episode, Brian Curtis talking Superbowl, Luca Trade, Day 10, still going. And then Matt Bellany talking SNL 50, the Oscars, Lively versus Baldoni, most famous celebrity right now. A lot of good stuff. It's all next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I remember when I was working on my HBO show and we were doing like the test shows and it was like three weeks before the show launched and the guy who hired me to do the show, Michael Lombardo, and he was a huge advocate. And like three weeks before it was like, Friday afternoon, like 3.15 in the afternoon. And all of a sudden the stuff was out that he was out at HBO.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And it was like, it was the only time I'd ever like really experienced the Friday news dump. It was so like perfectly calculated to just kind of sneak into the weekend with it. I was like, oh, this is how you do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Because there's any other day or moment, this would have been the biggest Hollywood story. And they were like, this is happening right here. It still happens. We're going to take a break and then we'll come back and we got to talk about this incredible Maverick situation. All right. So Curtis, you're from Texas. You're a lifelong Cowboys fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
You're a lifelong Mavericks fan, maybe not as much, but a student of the Mavericks. They've been in your life. It's been a rocky road. There's been a lot of ups and downs. Everything peaked in 2011 with Dirk Nowitzki and probably winning the title, beating Wade and LeBron and Bosh. And it got weird over the course of the decade. They miraculously end up with Luka Doncic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Cuban sells the team last year. They just seem like if you're picking six franchises you want to be for the next 10 years, they would have been one of the six because they had Luka. Out of nowhere, they trade him in the most shocking, craziest trade in the history of the NBA. And just when you think, all right, maybe this will settle down. It just hasn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It just keeps going up a level and up a level and up a level. What just your big picture watching this from afar? Holy shit. What is your take?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Oh, morning and through the afternoon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, and then this next level would happen at the home game yesterday where people are getting booed and they're removing fans, which... Did you see the guy? Removing fans for not doing anything that bad. They're just, like, being fans. Like, I've never seen people get pulled out of the arena for the stuff that they got pulled out of last night. Have you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
right it was almost like he flashed like he pulled it out out of a zipper absolutely and then they just got they were just dumping fans which is that's the worst thing you could do like it's not only did they do this crazy trade but they don't seem to understand like how angry it's made people and they don't really seem that interested in quelling the anger it's like they're just taking gasoline and pouring it on the fire you get escorted out of the arena for saying fire Nico for saying fire the GM yeah
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
First, we couldn't lose them on the video podcast. Our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, editor-at-large of The Ringer, Brian Curtis is here. We're recording on a Tuesday morning, action-packed. A lot of Brian's interests are in play. And we're going to talk about the Mavericks and one of the craziest NBA situations in a long time. But we'll start quickly with the Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, the other weird thing, and this kind of speaks to the incompetence behind the trade. How did they not anticipate any of this? Like they they're in Dallas, like Nico Harrison has been involved with the Mavericks longer than the owner. But he's there. He sees how popular Luka is. You go to any Mavericks game, it's Luka jerseys everywhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I mean, I would say it's a top four fans wearing the jersey of the best player NBA city. It's just everywhere. And little kids everywhere, 77, just everywhere. There was a couple when I was going to the finals, there was a couple Dierks. A couple of old school Mav stuff. But for the most part, it's just Luca. It's like a fucking Luca army. This was their guy. They've had him since he was 18.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
They thought they were going to have him until he was 40. So to not anticipate that part of it is like, man, I really think this makes us slightly better. But my life is going to suck for the rest of the time I live here. Just that alone. And then you have Palenka on the other end going, yeah, we got to keep this quiet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Nobody can find out because he knows the moment it leaks out, the Mavs fans are going to basically riot. I've never seen anything like this from a hubris slash lack of awareness perspective. dating unless you go back to like the 80s when the league was, you know, everyone was on cocaine and the league was fucking crazy and the teams are worth $12 million and weird shit happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
This is like out of the 80s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Everyone was saying this has never happened before with any Mavs team. We've never seen a coach just skip the presser. We're taping this at 10 o'clock PT. We might find out today Davis is out for like two months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I mean, the Patrick Dumont piece of this. Oh, my God. As it's evolved. I wrote down. The funniest outcomes of the Luka trade so far. Here we go. And it's a long list. Everyone made this point. A trade so bad, people thought Shams got hacked. Let's just start there. That's never happened before in the history of professional sports where we assumed the best reporter of a sport got hacked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Palenka dressing like a Fast and Furious villain for the post-trade conference. I loved. Just like decked out. Like he was about to do a concert in New Zealand. Like he used to be on New Kids on the Block and now he's got a solo career. I love this one. Everyone's still pretending... that Jason Kidd, JJ Redick, LeBron, Rich Paul, and Anthony Davis didn't know about the trade. This is my favorite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're still doing it. It's like, this is like Playhouse Theater. If people think Jason Kidd didn't know about this trade, I got like a bridge to sell you. It's unbelievable that they're still pushing this. AD, and we talked about this the day after the, on this pod, the day after the trade, like AD waved his trade kicker and gave up $5.9 million in like 40 minutes to make the trade work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's no way he didn't know. It's impossible. He has this huge house out here in LA. He loved being on the Lakers. He had to have known all these people knew and they're still doing it all these days later. Well, it was so important. We had to just keep it between the owners and, and, and, and Nico and, and Rob. And that was all, it couldn't get out. Why couldn't it get out? Why?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. Well, but then they said he didn't know until the 11th hour. It's like, you mean the 11th hour of a 24 hour day? Cause there's no fucking way you traded Luca without telling Jason Cade and talking him through it. Like, first of all, that's, that's insane. If you're running a basketball team and you're not going to walk through all the mechanics of here's door A and here's door B.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And also, like, they were complaining about Luka behind the scenes for, like, two years. And there's no way Jason Kidd wasn't a huge part of this trade. And by the way, Jason Kidd, not exactly the most stand-up dude over the years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, he's left a trail of bodies everywhere. Like, the Nets in 2007, all of a sudden, he got out of there. Like, this is not, like... Mr. Loyal, awesome team employee guy. So I've just give me a break on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then LeBron, like the way he reacted to the trade after, like if they if they really blindsided on this, there's no way, no way that he reacts the way he did, which was like, oh, yeah, well, wait and see. I just think everybody knew this was better. This is a better situation for LeBron. It actually gave him a chance to win a title. It was better for A.D. to go to Dallas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Anyway, that was one of my favorites. We mentioned Nico saying they kept the trade talks quiet because neither side wanted it to leak. You mean you didn't want it to leak because the moment it got out, there's no way the fan base would let you do it. uh, Patrick DeMont's interview over the weekend when he said Kobe was a culture builder.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And Kobe's coach in 2005 wrote an entire book about how awful it was to coach Kobe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Shaq's work ethic, which was like the most famous thing about Shaq. The whole, in my book of basketball, the whole thing I wrote about Shaq was that Shaq could have graduated with a four road. Instead he graduated with a three, seven and had a great time. Like that was Shaq. Um, Mark Cuban, a week late. doing the whole, I tried to stop it as soon as I found out, but it was too late.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Cause he probably was walking around for a week with everybody, just crushing them on the trade. And finally he had to like get some peace out to Mark Stein. Like, Hey, can you, can you put out that? I had nothing to do with this. Like there's really no blood on my hands. The Mavs trading Luca because he couldn't stay in shape and was always an injury risk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But then they got Anthony Davis who got hurt in the first game. Like you can't make this up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. This guy, this guy's better. Um, I liked, who knows, that Dave McBenneman story yesterday when it was like, LeBron's camp has noticed that Luka got what he wanted right away. That was an amazing sentence. And LeBron has been pushing for this stuff for years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
First of all, LeBron's played with, just in the last 14 years, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, and Luka Doncic. He plays on a Lakers team when they traded for A.D., They traded two top two lottery picks, Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball. They pushed Julius Randall out, who is another lottery pick. They traded the number four pick that became DeAndre Hunter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Hey, newsflash, the Cowboys didn't win another Super Bowl. What? It's been over three decades since the last time. We did have the Eagles win. We had the end of Mahomes. We had a lot of takes. Sal and I were doing stuff on Sunday night about, Mahomes getting kicked off Cote Island. What was the media reaction yesterday? What jumped out to you? What did you enjoy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
They put Josh Hart in the trade. They put Mo Wagner in the trade. They traded like two more swaps and picks, including the one that became Dyson Daniels. And they have another pick this year. Like they gave away like basically a decade of drafts. Combined with the two Westbrook trades, how much can you do for this guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So I almost don't believe that he couldn't have... There's no way he really feels like they're not doing enough for him. Anyway, that made me laugh. And then all the Mav stuff with just... Hey, let's hold our heads high and thank Luca for seven years. And he brought us to the Western finals and the finals. And this is great. Maverick. Good luck in LA. No, they did the opposite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
They just leak shit left and right. He's a fat piece of shit. Maybe he had a drinking problem. His calves could explode. Watch out for his Achilles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So you have a chance to get all these new look teams and maybe just ride Luka forever. and his point over in the Lakers to win as a parlay over and over again as he gets vengeance on the Mavericks. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Enjoy our new NBA player prop pages. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Who was the best... Who was central casting for best villain? Was it just Duke basketball in the 90s? Who was just the easiest to put right in there? Because even the Yankees, like... I hated the Yankees, but I was like, all right, Jeter, I kind of like. He seems like a nice guy. You know, it was more the fan base than the team itself. Duke basketball seemed like that was the easiest one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
a el... . . . . . ., en P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a a
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, I mean, imagine if Kyrie leaves. So he can opt out. There's some free agency stuff with him potentially. This could be a house of cards pretty quickly. And then the Davis piece of it, if he's just not healthy this year. They have a real chance not to make the playoffs because the West is so good. I was looking at the odds. I bet when I was in Louisiana over the weekend, I bet on Fando.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I bet on Golden State at like plus 155 to make the playoffs. They're plus 102. Tomorrow, they might be plus 170. Like the West is like, depending on who wins two games in a row, there's 11 good teams plus San Antonio. There's eight playoff spots. So if you have Davis out for a month, combined with Kyrie pulls something for a week, now all of a sudden you're sliding out of it. Fascinating stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Who thought Dallas would be this crazy as a sports city without the Cowboys being involved? I think that might have been the biggest shocker of all of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Or Jerry Jones possibly winning an Emmy for Landman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The most emotional TV cameo of the last five years. Who knew? Best thing he's done in 30 years by far. Unbelievable stuff. Oh, I almost forgot to do this. So I was saying to you last night when we were texting that this was the first NBA trade that I felt could be turned into a Ryan Murphy limited series on Netflix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah, yeah. When you're ruining stuff, that's always a good one. I'm trying to think who else. Like the Pats, because of the Spygate, I felt like that. In the first three Super Bowls, people were like, all right, enough with these guys. But it was a little like the Chiefs thing. But then when Spygate happened, then they became criminals, basically, and that moved it to another level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Where... Listen, not to compare this trade to the Menendez brothers and Ted Bundy and some of the other things they've done. But why not? But it feels like, you know, you have characters, you have intrigue, you have the Dumonts coming in as like the rich family screwing stuff up. You have Cuban as the old guy hanging on. You have Luca and whoever his entourage is and whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
They could Ryan Murphy that character up and make people like, no, no, Luca, it's three in the morning. You can't have Popeyes. You have LeBron and Rich Paul and AD and the Lakers side and Jeannie Buss and Jay Moore. Maybe Jay Moore plays himself. Anyway, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
We're going back and forth like the last dance a little bit. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Maybe we can bring her back. CGI now is amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Oh, that's really good. I mean, you could also go Chris Pratt putting the weight back on. After losing the weight and getting muscular the last 12 years, now he's going back trying to win an Emmy. Who do we like for Cuban? Cuban's like, it feels like Jeremy Strong in a zag. Nobody expecting Jeremy Strong here. He's got the Cuban wing on. He's super personable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And you're like, whoa, Jeremy Strong is Cuban? This is crazy. Why are they doing this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Could Ben Affleck be Cuban?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So J.K. Simmons, Nico Harrison could be 40 people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Actually, you could also do the thing with Dirk where it's like a 6'4 actor with a bad Dirk wig and it's clearly not Dirk because that's one of the staples of these shows where the guy doesn't actually follow sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah, that's probably Dirk. Dirk's like 6'2". What do we do with Luca? Luca's tough. This is where you get into like the Aaron Hernandez show, which I liked. And the guy didn't really look like Aaron Hernandez, but by the end of the show, you kind of felt like he was Aaron Hernandez. So you almost need, you need somebody that's big and a little doughy and that could be anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Maybe you're going with an unknown for that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
You have to pretend Italy, you have to pretend it's like Palos Verde.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I like this is actually a good series yeah this is pretty good and it's I think the Dumont the Adelson Dumont family I think features prominently in this yeah just like you really make Dumont like a villain and just a goofball who's like trying frantically trying to read up on NBA history like he's reading Halberstam breaks of the game somebody told me to read this I don't know who any of these people are
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It's just confused. Can we still get Bill Walton in a trade? Who's playing Skin and who are the Mavs radio guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Ben and Skin. Who's playing Ben and Skin?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Could people play me and Russillo and Mahoney doing the reaction pod or are we playing ourselves?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Skip with like some de-aging, like the Irishman. Cause we go back into the mid two thousands when he's saying that you can't win a title with Dirk DeWitzki, then it's like current skip. Unbelievable. Stephen A, Stephen A actor or Stephen A is himself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
They had the Taylor Swift thing, a lot of Kelsey, a lot of both Kelseys. A lot of commercials. They were moving a little bit toward the Trump side of stuff, which I think a couple people ruffled up. But for the most part, I don't know. My biggest issue with them was they made it so unfun to talk about the Super Bowl, which we talked about on Sunday night, where it's just like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
What about Donald Faison as Nico Harrison? Ooh, interesting. See, that'd be good. Yeah. All right. This is great. Ryan Murphy, get on it. Call us. We're, we're ready to do this. Brian Curtis. You can read him on the ringer.com. A great website. You can also listen to him on the press box. An awesome podcast. One of our, how many years for the press box been out? Eight. I think it's eight. Yep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
No, you were receptive. I forced fantasy. You were ready. Fantasy was forced. Fantasy took like, he was debating it like it was the Luka Doncic trade for weeks before he actually pulled the trigger. He seems to have gotten the hang of it. Yeah, he's doing all right. Curtis, thank you. Thanks, Bill. This episode is brought to you by Nissan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Some have credited him with Craig Horlbeck's rise as a media mogul.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
That was what he knew. Someday he could marry into the Adelson family and maybe run the Mavs. We just talked, Brian Curtis and I just talked about the Luca trade. And I was saying how the Ryan Murphy Luca trade miniseries on Netflix, I would just watch. And we had a whole bunch of casting stuff. Is there anybody just without you knowing what we talked about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Is there anybody that you feel like would have to be in that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I mean, honestly, Ryan Murphy would probably do that because he, Ryan Murphy clearly doesn't follow sports as we've seen from some of his other stuff. So he'd be like, yeah, we'll just cheat it and make him look like he's six foot eight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
What's your Ryan Murphy miniseries that he hasn't done yet that you can't believe he hasn't done yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Is there a Simpson-Bruckheimer one? Do you feel like there's an 80s Hollywood one that's sitting there for him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Who? Ovitz, like the Mike Ovitz when he was the most powerful agent in Hollywood. Does anyone think about that? Yeah. I don't know what's left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
If you pick them, you kind of feel it. You just say, well, Andy Reid's my home. You had no other reason. If you didn't pick them, you felt like an idiot. So it was, I think, the worst Super Bowl to talk about since I've been doing this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The problem is with an idea like that is I don't know if I'd want to spend time... I felt the same way about the Donald Sterling show. Ultimately, I just didn't want to spend six hours with Donald Sterling. Even if the show is good, there's some limits I have for...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah. SNL 50. One of the many reasons you're here. So it's Sunday. I got the music invite. I didn't get the, the other one. It's what? 200 people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So you have... Like, I talked to Jon Hamm about it in the last week, and he said he's going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So there's a level of, like, there's a guest host level where it's, like, Hanks, Jon Hamm. Like, there's probably, like, 20, 25 of those.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And then you have 50 seasons of Cass. Some of them are dead. Some of them are. But a lot of them are alive from the 80s on. And it's like Eddie Murphy. But then you get into, is Piscopo one of the 300? I would think he has to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Oh, really? And then you have the, uh, the music stuff because there's people like Paul Simon and, um, yeah, the friends of Lauren, but then also bands like if Bono wants to be there, like he was, he had one of the best music performances I've ever had. So he has to get in there. So I don't know how to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Nobody has a plus one, I'm guessing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It was the first time I ever got slaughtered on a Super Bowl and didn't feel bad really at all. I was like, what are you going to do? You can't go get some game. What was the other thing you were going to say about the villain thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, that's the other thing. You need the rich guy circles and you need the network circles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, they had to invite him because he could have basically destroyed SNL the last six years by doing Friday Night SNL on Netflix. And he loved the show and he didn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I am positive that as long as Lorne is there, he's never doing that because he loves the show and he loves Lorne. But the moment Lorne leaves, I think Netflix just takes that entire corner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So you you think like just the 300 people in this place, which is basically like having the NBA finals game seven in an arena that has 900 seats. You think they've been playing in this for like six months and they started out with a list of like 2000 names and levels.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And we do not think he's retiring after the year. I'm 99% sure he's not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
How did you feel about the documentaries and all the stuff that they did to lead to this moment?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The season 11 one I was so excited for because that's such a crazy stretch of the show where basically he leaves after year five, Ebersole comes in, the show is cratering and then Eddie Murphy saves it. They figure out a way to kind of keep Eddie Murphy, even though he's filming all the stuff in the first half of the show, they dole out the sketches to save it in season nine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And then season 10 becomes the all-star season with Billy Crystal, Martin Short, all those guys. And it's awesome. Season 10 is one of the best seasons in the history of the show. But then all those guys leave and Lauren comes back and Lauren tries to zag and hires all these young writers, young actors, new writing staff, whole thing. And just misses everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And I was like, they're doing a documentary. This sounds amazing. But it didn't dive into the Lawrence stuff. It didn't really dive into why he came back, like the failure of the new show, which he had tried to do where he owned it. He almost went bankrupt from the show. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah. And the Dick Ebersole thing where he was so mad that Dick Ebersole was being considered successful with the show. And that's a really fun dynamic, those two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
He has to be there. He saved the show. The show's dead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And he pulls Lovitz out. Lovitz is the only one. That's the other funny thing is Lovitz was the breakout star of that season, which tells you about the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I think when they did this for SNL 40 and we blew it, it was my last year at Grantland and we blew it out. We had a whole week. We did the March Madness bracket for people on the show. We did an awesome job. You can go back and read it for people listening. We had like 20 pieces. I wrote a piece right after the SNL 40 show, which was three hours long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And I think the headline was like, bloated SNL 40 was actually kind of perfect because that's what the show was. But the 40-year mark was really cool because... The show was still really good, really relevant, and still really, really good at breaking stars. And it had just come off that awesome cast with Hayter and Sandberg and Sudeikis and Will Forte and Armisen and Kristen Wiig.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And you look back at that cast, you're like, holy shit. We didn't even realize in the moment how loaded these, all of them went on to do all these other things. Yeah. And the last 10 years, they just haven't had the same success with the cast. And I think that's what's different. I look at these last 10 years and it's like, there's really no breakout stars that they've developed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Kate McKinnon was probably the last one. And she's not somebody who can carry her own thing. She's good as like being part of something. But that's what's changed in the last 10 years, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah, the only times they really did that over the course of the show, like Belushi was filming. He was filming 1941, I think in season four and flying back and forth. Eddie Murphy was doing movies when he was there. You made exceptions for like the major stars. It seems like they've they've made a lot more exceptions in recent years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The thing you said about the cast, one of the great moments of this podcast when I was at ESPN was I got to interview Lorne in his office, which was an incredible career move for me. Not move, career moment. It was just like, I can't believe I'm doing this. I had so many questions to ask him. I got to talk to him for an hour 20. Did he offer you popcorn? I don't think he offered me popcorn.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Maybe he might have. But I talked to him about the cast thing. And I talked to him about my theory about how the cast was like a basketball team and you had to have the starting five and the four or five people off the bench. But once you have 17 people, it's just too hard to get everyone involved. And he was explaining why he did it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And the reasons actually made sense where he was like, some people aren't ready for the first year or the second year. It really takes until year three that you got to develop people behind them. I think the thing they really fucked up in the last 10 years was using these celebrities for big parts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And I've said this before, not being able to break new stars with parts like Biden, Trump, these things. If you go back to the history of the show, the cast members were always playing the people in the zeitgeist. And they shifted away from that and started giving those parts to... These other people, they even did it in 24. Like Maya Rudolph as Kamala Harris.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Like, why can't that be a cast member? You know, and I think that's what shifted.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, I think the theory of using people like Alec Baldwin, I think was a huge mistake. I know it's like- No, it's a drug.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Right. And I remember right around when it started, Will Ferrell used to do that Janet Reno dance party sketch. Mm-hmm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I think that sketch is canceled. But Jane and Reno came on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
If I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was right in the early 2000s they started bringing the people there, parroting on. The show was really... Yeah, the show would go for it with celebrities. It was really mean-spirited in a way that I used to love and my friends all loved in the 90s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Having fun with it, but going after him. Totally. I agree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
How about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni? Totally. How is that not like a talk show where they hate each other and they're next to each other?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
But that's what's happened. That's the biggest thing that's happened in the show this century over the last 20 years. And I remember when Tina Fey came on as Palin all those times, and then they brought Palin on. And you talked about it. It's like a drug. They get addicted to the crowd reaction.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And then that became like, we're going to have fun with these celebrities, but we also need the celebrities. I remember when Andy Samberg did that Mark Wahlberg sketch. Hey, how's your brother? How's your brother? And it was really funny. And Mark Wahlberg got pissed and they ended up bringing him on the next week to kind of give Sandberg shit. And it was like, this isn't the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The show was like kind of mean and ruthless sometimes with celebs. And now it seems like it courts the celebrities in a completely different way, which I just think is a product of Lorne being an older guy who just, he's a celebrity himself. And that's how he sees it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So download the app today, Bet With FanDuel, an official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, and that's where Romo or probably Romo, but I think Aikman would have been the best because Aikman just doesn't give a shit anymore. Aikman, I think, probably would have been the hardest on him, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I can't believe it hasn't happened yet. No, it's like if Netflix had done this two years ago on Friday nights, I think SNL would have been in real trouble. They would have gotten the jump on them. The other way to beat SNL that nobody is... SNL just goes away from mid-May to late September. Yeah. And every four years you have these, you know, a political election.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
That's the most fun part to parody. Yeah. And like Netflix could have just launched a Friday night SNL show last May. Yeah. And just crushed it for four months. And by the time SNL came back, it would have felt like a dinosaur. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah. Well, this is an incredible run. The fact that it's been on for 50 years and my entire life. And I remember all the pieces of it. But. Um, it is amazing. There's nothing like, there's nothing like it, especially like the, the music, which I was really glad they did that music documentary, even though I thought they missed a couple of things that I was just stunned by.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
But, um, I just, I, I was always one of my favorite underrated things about the show was just catching all these acts at the greatest time of their career, right. As they're about to do this. And they would just over and over again, get these people. And then sometimes, um, you know, it would just go the other way. This was it. That was the highlight. And then it was gone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I can't wait to see what happens Sunday night. I mean, it's one of the one of the last must see 8 p.m. network shows. That's not sports or not an award show that we're probably ever going to have. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Do they go music or sketch would be my first question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
All right. So if they ask me, I would have... the four or five best people in the history of show on stage together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
But a couple of them are dead though. So that makes it, you know, it's sad to say, but it's a little easier. But you take one person from each era. You take Aykroyd. You take Eddie. You take somebody from the Hartman era. Maybe it's Dana Carvey. You have Will Ferrell. You have... Maybe Kristen Wiig.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Maybe Hader. No, but I'm saying you just you have like five or six to start. I think they're going to go with celebrities, though, to start. It'll be like Tom Hanks, Paul Simon. It'll be like the Five Timers Club, basically. Something like that would be my guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So, Chevy's still alive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
pretty risky there. I mean, some of them are like in their late 70s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I feel like he's going to take the easy way out and just start with like Paul Simon. Maybe. Like performing with Paul McCartney and like they'll start out with some song with some, with like an awesome band and that kicks it off. And then Chevy Chase, Chevy Chase, I think has to start the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Like, like officially be the one who like fall, they do some pratfall that they'll tape ahead of time and then it kicks to the credits would be my guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
We're going to take a break and then I want to talk to you about some Hollywood stuff that's going on. All right. I love having Bellini on in mid February because the Oscars is coming. It's usually just a fun time in general for Hollywood. Um, we have the Oscars in about two and a half weeks. Um, Conan O'Brien's hosting. The movies are weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Fantasy seems to be the only one who's happy with the movies. I just think fantasy is happy with movies every year. Um, And then we've had some really advanced level negging of different movies that has really hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah, well, I'm aware, but explain it to the audience.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And he would get mad when he held it too long and got sacked or had to run out, throw it out of bounds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah. And it seems like after 48 hours, the, uh, the second level analysis stuff is, Whoa, the Eagles actually like go the 2000 Ravens and that some of the other great Superbowl teams, let's, where do they go? Where do they rank ahead of them? And then it feels like people are kind of test driving, uh, some Mahomes stuff. And even people in my life where it's like, Are we sure?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Just because they pulled out all these close games, why don't they have explosive plays anymore? The guy's about to hit 30. Could you say he peaked a couple years ago just as an explosive, awesome quarterback? There's always all these excuses around him. Are we sure? Which I remember hit Brady in the late 2000s too. There was some are we sure stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, I mean, this is your background even before you got into what you're doing now. Yeah, I was a lawyer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah. There's real defamation potential here that the whole thing is you have to prove somebody had malicious intent with whatever they're doing. It can't be like, oh, I had this throwaway line on a podcast and then I shouldn't have said that. Malicious intent is the key. And it feels like there's malicious intent in this, which is what's so interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I don't think anyone feels really committed to anything. The biggest thing that shocked me And I feel like I say this every year and it feels like it's even, it just speeds up by probably an hour every year. But going back, we both loved like Sports Illustrated in the 80s. The Super Bowl would happen. People would talk about it. It would be on SportsCenter for four straight days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Okay. Because it seemed like part of his case was... they only took one side of this exchange. They had all access to all of this. They only decided to print this. And that, that got into interesting territory. Just reading about it. I was like, ah, there's something I can see the case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So you you think this is basically a nuclear war where both sides just blew each other up and there's no winners, there's no losers. It's not even a zero sum game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So Baldoni actually... by doing everything he's done, actually, like, was able to get an equal playing field again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, I don't know if you know this, but Blake Lively has my wife and daughter's support because both of them have landed on. I don't like that guy's face as the reason to side against Baldoni.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And then the Sports Illustrated will come out on Thursday with like the final statement of the game. And then that started to shrink as the internet came around. And it's kept shrinking. It kept shrinking. But even like when I was at ESPN, Sal and I used to do like Monday afternoon recaps of the Super Bowl. Then that became Monday mornings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And something you've been writing about and talking about for the last couple of years, some PR people who are just absolute barracudas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
What was the best crisis PR TV show ever? A couple of people have taken swings at this scandal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then Kendrick Drake, is that over? Do people care anymore? Is this going to be it? Or is there, is there like another level to this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I know, but it feels like it just keeps going and going. Does Hollywood care?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Where do you stand on... The NFL certainly cared.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
They also stuck up for him, though. I mean, I think there were some lawsuits behind the scene that they kind of aligned with Kendrick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
How about four years ago?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Then eventually we're just going immediately as fast as we could after the game. And now it feels like the shelf life to discuss the Super Bowl is 18 hours. Is it longer than that? Like, does anyone, even us leading the podcast with this today, I want to do it because I love talking about all the ancillary stuff with you, but it's like, is it too late?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I could feel them in the Superdome. Yeah, exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Speaking of Trump, Hollywood, they're in the second Trump term.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Versus the first Trump term. What are the differences you're seeing early on here?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, that's what my question is. Is there more fear of him this time around with some of the decisions big companies are making? Because it feels like there is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah. And what happens next? Like what happens if he goes to Disney and he's just take him off the air? I'm just going to cause incredible amounts of trouble the next four years. Or what if he goes through Paramount and says, Colbert's got to go for me to even think about doing this. So all of this would be bad for James Babydoll Dixon, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
But what happens if he makes that part of the thing and would somebody stand up to him or would they be like, eh, all right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Is it too late to talk about the Super Bowl on a Tuesday morning?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
But it's like you think they pay a hundred million a year for the show. It gets out. But it's like, oh, we were thinking about pushing. Like they could spin it a certain way. They could.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Hey, if you missed it, we launched a brand new podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network and Spotify. It is called Good Hang with Amy Poehler. First episode is dropping fairly soon. Within the next couple of days, you can follow it on Spotify. Video podcast too. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We put up a new rewatchables on Monday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Do you think the horrific fires and everything we're going through here in Southern California is going to change at all the way Hollywood thinks about... Southern California thinks about Hollywood as a business? Because I always felt like it was shifting that... So many people are filming stuff outside of... LA and California because the tax breaks are so much better in Canada.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
You go to freaking South Africa, you go to Atlanta. Um, and it always seemed like miss money. And I wonder, are they going to start thinking outside the box with stuff like that and maybe trying to bring people back?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
That's what I'm really hoping for. Most people aren't going to care about this, but we both know so many people who... you're making content and you're traveling to these crazy places and you're away from your family for four or five months. And it's just like, why are we doing it this way? Why aren't we filming as much stuff?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
You watch those TV shows, movies from the seventies and eighties and everything's in LA. And why, like, why can't we get back to that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I sat next to somebody at one of the Dodger playoff games. He's like, yeah, I'm about to go to South Africa filming this BET show. And I'm like, Is it like set in South Africa? It's like, no, no, it's just cheaper to shoot there. I'm like, what? You've hit multiple kids. It's going way. It's just, they feel like they have to fix that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Meanwhile, the only people that have figured out business in LA is the Dodgers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I know. We have to end on that. They've ruined baseball. They figured out how to make Japan the second revenue stream. They've owned it. They now own Japan and California. All of baseball is no longer fun. You've ruined it completely.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It's too late now. It's basically like the Japan Dodgers is a wrap.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
This is what I would say if I rooted for the team that was ruining a professional sport in real time. I would say, hey, these are the rules. Sorry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
No, I'm not actually mad at the Dodgers. The Lakers are the team that makes me mad. And if you're like the Clippers and you've really thought outside the box, you build this awesome arena. There's finally signs of the end with the Lakers, with LeBron hitting 40. They don't have any draft picks left. They're just going to suck. They're not especially well run. It's like, here we go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And there's no like nobody's nobody's parachuting in on like Monday at 3 p.m. with this amazing story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
We actually have a chance to maybe take this. It's way more fun to go to a Clipper game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
In one dumb trade, the Lakers are back. Luka's going to be the guy now for the next 10 years and none of it matters. And Luka will be the biggest star in LA in basketball. Do you think so? I do. I do. And there's no way for the Clippers to combat that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, they're about to because Luka just went to their most important franchise. And this is it. It's not even a test. He's going to be gigantically popular.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It's an interesting question. I think if it's going to happen, this is the team for it to happen. And if the trade can light the fire under him and make him truly great, and he can win like three titles in a row and average 30 a game and be the best guy in the league, like, yeah, that's going to happen. We would have said it wasn't going to happen with LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
There was a whole LeBron versus Kobe thing in 08, 09, 2010. He goes to Miami the first year. He sucks in the finals. It seemed like it wasn't going to happen for him. Like, you just never know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Yeah, but nobody saw the Space Jam sequel. It bombed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
We've talked about this many times on the pod. We have not seen it happen yet. I think if it doesn't happen in this case... with a guy on the Lakers, you know, especially if he becomes really good. I still like anecdotally, just, I'm sure you feel the same. Like all the LA fans are going bonkers. Like they can't believe. So this will be the test case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And I think this was the best possible guy for them to get.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
So let's let's end on this. Any LA celebrity, athlete, actor, musician, actress, you name it, walks into a restaurant right now in February 2025, who stops the restaurant the hardest?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Okay, so she's clear number one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The most like you're in mid-bite and you're just like, oh my God, it's Taylor Swift. So she's one. So who's two?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. So you're saying 25 and under, maybe it's Chalamet. Chalamet, maybe. Or Zendaya. I don't think it's Chalamet. Oh, Zendaya is a good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
There's no football star. I don't think Mahomes does it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
It's so funny that Taylor has this locked up in like a crazy, crazy, maybe nobody in the 21st century has locked it up like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
The guy who's figured out the best, the best version of a celebrity is Mookie Betts. He lives in, lives in LA. So there's a kajillion celebrities here. He's not that big. He's like 5'9", 5'10". Looks like a regular dude. He slides in. He just goes to Laker games. He goes to Clipper games. He can just go anywhere, and you kind of don't even really know. It's Mookie Betts. He has it the best.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
You know who's up there in a stop the restaurant party standpoint? I talked about the Sunday night at Shaq just because of the size and how recognizable he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I actually felt like the halftime show and the Kendrick Drake stuff and, um, how polarized in that show ended up being almost became more of a theme on Monday, at least in, in, on my text threads and the stuff I was reading, it was more interesting. to read how people were receiving stuff, the hidden meanings behind some of the stuff Kendrick did on the halftime and Serena being in it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Brady has it too. Brady's like 6'6". So when he comes in, he's like six inches, nine inches taller than everybody. You just notice him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Well, did. Once upon a time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Matt Bellany, you can listen to him on The Town. You can read him on The Puck, an excellent website. And then what else? Anything? That's it. What else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Someday, someday Craig Horvath will stop a restaurant someday. He will be going to happen soon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Uh, thanks, Melanie. Thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Brian Curtis and Matt Bellany. Thanks to Saruti and Kyle Gahow as well. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch this on Spotify. I hope you did because we're going video podcast from now on on Spotify and new rewatchables we put up on Monday night, the Blues Brothers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
If you missed it, I will have another podcast for you on Thursday. Enjoy the middle of the week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
That one had these levels that kept getting revealed. That used to be how the Super Bowl operated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Probably Brady somewhere in the first three Super Bowls where it was all Belichick and all the defense and Brady was kind of the supporting character in a lot of ways. Sure. I think it would be the only other time I can remember that happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
I mean, they basically put the game in his hands and dared him to beat them. And he did that with the Mahomes stuff. There's a couple of fun wrinkles that could come out. He could go the, you know, the NBA player route. Like if this was LeBron in the home spot, we'd already be getting the leaks about he needs more help.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
They didn't find him anyone this year when Rasheed Rice went out, they could have done this, that, and the other thing. They knew Kelsey was getting old. They've got to do more. He took less money. It would be, they'd basically make him a victim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
Oh, that would be another one too. Yeah, he had like a quad injury. He couldn't push off his right foot. Yeah, they'd be doing all that stuff. But it kind of doesn't seem like Mahomes, not only does he not do that stuff, but... He always seems at peace, win or lose after the game, right? I, we never see that stuff about, Oh, this year, Patrick Mahomes is different.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
We did the Blues Brothers in honor of SNL fans. You can watch it on the Ring of Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch a lot of the videos and clips from this podcast and the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. This is a big episode for us because this is our first video episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on Spotify. Every episode from now on, will be a video episode on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
He's just, he's pretty, pretty even keeled, which I think you have to be as a quarterback. The interesting thing to me, which we talked about Sunday night was I really do think Kelsey was going to retire if they won. And the Kelsey, will he or will he not retire? I think will be fun. But just in general, like it's really hard to keep these windows open.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
You know, with with NFL teams, we went through it with the Patriots a few different times. It all depends on the drafts. People wrote some good pieces about, you know, they missed on their left tackle pick this year. you know, Rasheed Rice, which would have been this awesome wide receiver pick for him. And so you can just tilt it a little bit or all of a sudden you're catchable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
And I think that was the thing that changed the most coming out of this season was like the Chiefs not only feel super catchable now, we don't have to do the thing where we just hand them the game when we're talking about it. Now it's like football has opened up for analysis. So I'm excited for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
From a, from a Superbowl standpoint, the Brady Fox thing at the end, $375 million, whatever it is, they certainly got a lot of ink and publicity and podcasts and, content. He was able to go on some of the Fox shows. He had a couple of decent moments like in traditional podcast interview stuff. I don't think from a game thing, I wouldn't even put him in the top eight game guys I heard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni
He's got this weird Vegas
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Coming up, NBA Cup, NBA, and a lot of NFL next. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold Michelob Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them. So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
If I'm Dallas Kirk, who's my guy that's going to be guarding SGA if I'm seeing them in round two or round three? Who's my stopper for SGA?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
He made a lot of threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Last year, they were too small, and they almost won the series anyway, OKC. And it came down to that play in the corner when SGA, the foul, when he played perfect defense, and they lucked out with that one. But they also didn't have Hartenstein last year, and Chet got overpowered in that series. Or Caruso. And Caruso was great tonight. He was great tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
A different team, and yet they almost beat them last year. So I'm feeling great if I'm OKC. The other thing... And who knows? Shams wrote this piece today about... You know, could Jimmy Butler get traded? Zach Levine? I know Jacoby has some thoughts on it. I'm like, OKC to me is the perfect type of team that could make trades because they have all these movable contracts, cheap contracts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They can add stuff together. They're not getting crushed by the apron. They have a million picks they could trade. I'm so confused by the trade rules. And I've read everything. And as you guys know, I'm the trade machine Picasso. Like, I take this seriously. I am just absolutely flummoxed by these rules. And even that thing today I read where it's like, yeah, Jimmy Butler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's like, I'm not sure anybody can add Jimmy Butler. From what I understand about these rules, it feels like they made him too hard, Jacoby. And I'm going to be useless at the trade deadline. I don't like it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And a lot of the archives we have from the TV episodes we've done. So go check that out and subscribe. We're gonna be experimenting a lot more with video podcasts on all the Spotify feeds too for Prestige and for The Watch and for my podcast and for The Rewatchable. So stay tuned.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, you're not doing that. Golden State's the team. I think it would be Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, I think Shams put in, he had the Texas teams. San Antonio would be super interesting for that, but I think they would have to resign them. And I don't know if that's on their timetable, but Golden State, I think has real urgency with, uh, You know, I'm not just a body language guy, but I'm also the trade detective. And I did notice this weekend, all of a sudden they're pushing Kaminga.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They're putting him in the starting lineup. Draymond Green's like, you can have my spot. When has Draymond Green ever been this magnanimous? Just there was a lot of red flags where I was like, huh, what are you guys doing? Almost feels like you're trying to showcase Kaminga for somebody. No, no, take my spot. Draymond Green, the guy who punched Jordan Poole, now he's Mr. Magnanimous, take my spot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I don't know, something that feels like the team because they're on a specific window with Curry, right? If you feel like you can contend for a title with Curry at age 36, he's already wearing down over the first five, six weeks. Butler makes sense for them. Kirk, you're nodding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
So you're saying they're like the farmer's market? Yeah. Come on over. We got pistachios. We got Kyle Anderson. The flowers over here. Organic. There's some chicken. Got chicken over here. Free sample. It's a full chicken. Some fruit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I think it's going to like really, really harm it. But so selfishly, I'm mad because I love making up fake trades and they're just going to be super unrealistic. But Jacob's, there's this flip side to it where I kind of like it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Where guys who are in situations they might not love, like to me, it's like if we're driving, you know, like say Jacoby, you have your three kids in the car and you're like, we're driving all the way to Washington, D.C. and we're not stopping. But your kids are like, Dad, can we stop? Can we get something? Can we stop, stop? And they just wear you down and you eventually stop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
If you like listening to podcasts on Spotify, you'll be able to watch the videos as well as we keep going, heading to the end of 2024 into 2025. Coming up. We waited for these two NBA Cup games to end on Tuesday night because, especially OKC Dallas had to see what was going on there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
This, all these apron rules are basically like the kids are trapped in the car for the entire ride now. Like if you're Brandon Ingram, it's like, I want to get off. Can we stop it? You're like, can't, sorry, can't trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But everyone's trapped in the car and you kind of have to make the best of it. And this is what the NBA used to be like. You're like, hey, you're stuck on your team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But look at Zach Levine's situation. He's playing well for Zach Levine. He's 22-5-5. I've watched a couple games where in the fourth quarter, he's as good as he's ever looked. And he could have checked out or been like, well, I'm going to nurse an injury until you guys trade me. But he's not going to get traded. So he might as well make the best of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's a little reminds me of what happened in football. Or in football, there's like never trades, right? Nobody's like, we traded our left tackle today for somebody starting outside linebacker. It's just everybody's kind of stuck on their team until the end of the year. And maybe that's what basketball is becoming, which is bad for podcast content, but it may be better for basketball, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It might be Jamal Murray. Like his extension hasn't even kicked in yet. Well, if he's going to look like he's looked, I mean, there's some other ones like Nurkic. I'm sure Phoenix would be dying to trade him in five seconds, right? But yeah, if you look at the best three teams, the Celtics, OKC, and Cleveland, none of them really have like the, oh man, I wish we didn't have this contract guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
All the contracts are pretty good. But I also feel like, it seems like people knew this era was coming. and the smarter teams were very careful. Even that OKC deal for Hartenstein, they overpaid him for three years based on what his market was, but it's actually a smart deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Wanted to break it down, so I reserved, almost like you could reserve an Uber black car or something, I reserved Dave Jacoby and Kirk Goldsberry to be on call after the NBA Cup, so they're gonna join me, and then, Craig Horoback and Kyle Branton and I, Kyle and I did a rewatchables that we recorded for later this month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That's how they got him, and it's not gonna kill them down the road, unlike how Juan Soto's gonna kill the Yankees in the last five years of his deal when he's just destroying them for 60 million a year. Or the Mets, I meant the Mets. Let's take a break. I have some NBA Cup questions for you, big picture, whether we actually like this or not. That's next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The NBA season is flying and FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook, wants to catch all the action. Right now, FanDuel giving everyone three months of NBA League Pass. All you have to do to catch every tip-off from Buzzer Beater is place any $5 bet on the NBA. You can trail me on Fridays. I've been pretty hot with these 30-on-30s we're doing on Fridays with NBA 30-point scores. So stay tuned.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I tweet those out on Fridays. Next time you get a hunch on who's going to win or how many points a player will score, You can watch your picks come to life live. You can even bet the NBA Cup games on Wednesday. Just visit FanDuel.com slash BS to get three months of NBA League Pass courtesy of FanDuel. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You must be 21 plus in President Select States or 18 plus in President DC. After a three-month free trial, the full price of League Pass will be automatically charged monthly, cancel any time, no refunds. Terms, restrictions, and embargoes apply. Limit one pass per customer. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
This episode is brought to you by PayPal. Sports fans, I know going to the big games can get expensive, so let's talk strategy. Let's talk how PayPal has changed the playbook. Now you can pay everywhere, online, in-store. either or both with the PayPal debit card. That's right, earn a 5% cash back up to $1,000 every month in the category you choose, like apparel and groceries. Think about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That's like getting cash back when you're picking up your game day snacks or grabbing a drink with the crew after the big game. I'm talking about real savings, like that energy drink keeps you hyped for the big game cash back. 17th purchase of merch from your favorite team cash back. Post game extra large pizza you order like clockwork. You get the idea. Every payment, everywhere, every time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Don't just pay, PayPal. Terms and cash back, limits apply. See PayPal app. The PayPal debit card is issued by the Bancorp Bank. NA pursuant to a license by MasterCard International Incorporated and may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. NBA Cup, does this work? Jacobs, it's year two. Here's my case for maybe it doesn't work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I didn't want the Celtics to make the quarterfinals or semifinals and have to play the two extra games. I wanted the rest for them. So that tells me fundamentally, maybe this doesn't 100% work, that I wanted my team not to make it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And then I made him stick around yesterday and me and Craig and Kyle just talked about NFL. And it went a whole bunch of directions. I had a great time. So this is a three-man podcast all the way through with two different three-man teams. It's all next. First, our friends from Pro Gym. All right, we're taping this. It is almost 9 o'clock Pacific time. Dave Jacoby stayed up late on the East Coast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, Luka was like, 100,000 we didn't get? Eh?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
What do you think, Kirk?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I know Embiid's disappointed. He wanted to get those two extra games in. I like the NBA Cup But I think that's the criticism. I was thinking, should there be a couple other things that you win if you win beyond just the money? What if you could get un-aproned for the rest of the season? I don't know why the players would care about that, but the fans, I think, would be...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Like the Phoenix Suns all of a sudden be like, wait, we're out of the lock separate apron for three months. It's like a get out of jail free card for the apron. What if you guaranteed the six playoff spot?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, you could think about the season a little differently. It's an advantage, right? You know you don't have to be in the playing game. You know you're going no lower than six. You can rest guys a little differently. It's a real advantage for the season, I think would be the appeal. But then if you're a team like Atlanta... Or even Houston, who's probably going to be a top six team anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But I think that would be pretty... Or Orlando, who's losing their entire team to torn obliques. You kind of want the sixth seed. I like that. The other one... That's really it. You could do a draft pick thing, but I don't know why the players on the team would care. It's like, oh, we've locked down the 15th pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
With Jacobs, we both have the reality background. You once upon a time were the czar of reality TV. Is there a reality thing we could steal for this? Like you win and you get to use that power to fuck over another team in some way? Like you could say... Oh, I haven't thought about it in that way. You get your cross and it's like the Celtics now...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
So say the NBA Cup quarterfinals, semis, and finals are all Elam ending. We just hit a certain score and the game's over? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Jacoby, would SGA be fun to play with? Absolutely. Be fun to play pickup with? Okay. He leads the league in unassisted baskets, so it's kind of one of those situations where you don't feel needed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, when we played, we had that one guy who was the stay on the court guy. where we knew we would basically just have to rebound and play defense, and he was going to score nine of the 11 points. I can't remember what his name was. Jalen Rose. I think it was Jalen Rose. Jalen was unfair. He was unfair to play it. Let's talk about the other game and whether we believe in Milwaukee Bucks yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I thought they played really well against the Celtics on Friday in a game that was about as intense as you get in December. There's no love lost between those two teams, Kirk Goldsberry. There's some Giannis Jalen stuff. There's some Giannis Al Horford stuff, I felt like. Tatum has a little bird in his saddle against them. I don't feel like anybody really likes playing against Dame that much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Kurt Goldsberry, sloppy seconds we're getting you today because you were doing some alt-casting. Hopefully you have enough energy momentum back. Guys, I'm going to start here. OKC beats Dallas. Jacoby, is OKC like a borderline lock for you in the West, or is there somebody else you're afraid of? Because the more I watch them, the more I just wonder who beats them in the West.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I always feel like people get annoyed by him. But that was a really intense game on Friday. But the Celts won. But what struck me was I thought the Bucs hung with them and could have won the game. And... Now that Green and Prince have been getting them three-point shooting, now that Portis, who looked like he was going to be out of the league first month of the season, now he's back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Now they have Middleton back. Giannis is averaging a 32, 12, and 6. I still don't feel like they're at that top echelon and maybe not even in the second echelon. But they're at least lingering because of Giannis now, right? I don't think they're lurking, but I would go lingering for them. Is that fair?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I'm a little worried about the Lopez piece of it. He looked really old in the Celtic game and I thought he was the biggest reason they lost. And it feels like there's a Giannis, Portis, Shooters, and Dame. And whether Middleton's in that or not, we'll find out. But that seems to be probably their most successful lineup, which is weird because Lopez was so essential to what they did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I don't know, Jacobs. I still don't feel like the Giannis-Dame thing is perfect. And maybe it will never be, but it almost feels like Dame, it's like, hey, Giannis isn't going to play tonight, Dame. You're going to have to take a lot of shots. I don't feel like he's shedding tears. You know what I mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I don't feel like they've totally figured it out yet, but they're kind of scotch taping it and duct taping it together now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
For Tatum, it's a dream. Tatum against the Bucs, he's like, this is awesome. Sorry, Kirk, I interrupted you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Are you a believer? Ime said this like three weeks ago about. He's like, if you look at all the teams that have won a title or made the finals, they're all like top five defense. Yeah, I think he's right. I actually think it's that simple.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Right. Well, and then when Dame wasn't on him, he was getting the switch button. They were asking a lot from Suggs in that game. In fact, this is a good time to bring in Steve Cerruti for two seconds because we have a very important Orlando Magic question. So at halftime, were you on Expedia or wherever looking for Hartford to Vegas tickets? Were you thinking about it? You were, weren't you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
People come over, they want a beer. They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or, I've never tried one of these. I've heard you talk about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious. There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket of Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
My friend, Sean Grandy, who is the radio guy for the Celtics, who's, I think, a good basketball kind of thinker with this stuff. Orlando is the team he's afraid of for the Celtics when they get everybody back because he thinks they're defensive upside. And they didn't have Isaac tonight either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
He thinks their defensive ceiling is the high... Some people would say it's Tibbs and Nix, but I just think it's going to be too easy to get...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
point the Knicks are in a weird position where their offense is probably going to be more dangerous than their defense in the playoffs but I think Orlando so the case for them would be the defense giving Franz all those reps without Paolo and now Suggs turning into like Russell Westbrook 2017 light like just doing everything on the magic Jacoby are you buying Suggs stock yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, the other piece with the Orlando that's been interesting with these guys going out is... I don't know. They took the... They took the training wheels off Anthony Black a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
He got, what's the hairdo he's rocking these days? He moved some hair stuff around. Yeah, and he's got, there's like a little bun in the back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Seems like a new guy. Like, I didn't know who it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But there's a lot of stuff to like with him. And I don't really know what his ceiling is. And I'm sure when we get to like game four of a playoff series and he's in the corner, teams are going to be like, go ahead, take that. But the fact that he's not a bust feels like a win, Cerruti.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
What do you think, Goldsberry?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Kirk, what do you see from the Magic?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And two games you didn't have to play. It's not like the NBA Cup was going to do anything for you. It's two more games where nobody's getting hurt. Oh, Cody's got time out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's tough. They're 30th in three-point shooting, 31%. They're 28th in corner threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Like, okay, the worst shooting team in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They're all fine. Why don't you have to do that to Cerruti? He's got, like, the best two guys have torn a bleach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Oh, I like how you used the alpha and beta. So Rudy, did you know where your oblique was five weeks ago?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Where did you think it was on your body?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I wonder if they even knew how to diagnose this in like the 80s. Like Bob McAdoo had a torn oblique for an entire year and had no idea because he's like, oh, my side hurts. They're like, Bob, take some aspirin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But how did two guys, I know everyone's asking this, but it is fucking weird. How did two guys get the same injury? It's like a haunted house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They were showing him different plays and he couldn't even know what the play was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Really weird. Rank your three, your three teams you're afraid of in the East. Boston, obviously one. Who's two?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Die Easy Knicks fan Dave Jacoby is upset. No. Number one offense in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Kirk, were you seeing 25 and 13 with 46% three-point shooting from Towns this year? Was that in your bingo card?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I thought it was going to go the other way. I thought it was going to be like, oh, they got to figure out how to get in the ball more because there haven't been enough. Instead, it's like this him and Brunson as a combo have been crazy. And then it seems like the Knicks fans really like him, too. That's the other thing that I think was up in the air.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I think I'd go slight edge to the Bucs because of just how crazy Giannis is this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It just seems like any time he wants to go downhill, he turns, so my daughter went to the game on Friday, because my dad got a COVID shot, and I don't know, first of all, why did he get a COVID shot? Great question. Second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I was like, nobody, dad, it's 2024. What are you doing? So he got a COVID shot and then go figure, him and my stepmom both felt like crap the next day. So my daughter got to go with her boyfriend and she hadn't seen Giannis in person. And it was, so she called me after and she was like, dad, is he like the best player of all time? Like, where does he, what's going on with that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
FanDuel agrees with you, but the odds for the OKC Thunder in the West, I thought they'd be a minus, but they're plus 190 in the West. And they just seem too athletic and too fast for maybe any team except the Celtics. Because I think at least the Celtics, it's the perimeter guys. You watch Dallas, and Dallas was on a good run. They'd won 11 and 12.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It just seems like every time he wants, he could just bulldoze over everybody and get a layup or a dunk. And I'm like, yeah, it's kind of.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
This fat guy is going to have 104 points this weekend, two games. But I think we've been watching the honest thing for so long, we forget just fundamentally how insane it is that he could just basically get to wherever he wants, no matter what the defense is. Middleton is the thing with them. To me, it's a 3A, 3B thing. And I want to know where we are with Middleton in March.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And then Orlando's kind of lurking as the... Who knows, team? Miami, it's interesting. And I don't think they have any chance to move up into this ladder, but they do seem like they've figured out something over the last two weeks with their team. Like, Hero carries the offense for three quarters. Butler kind of takes over late. Bam's having a really weird season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Like, all his field goal stuff and stuff around the rim is terrible. It's really, like, uncharacteristic. But for some reason, I could see them... maybe upsetting somebody in one round, but not more than that. And that's really it. I don't even know who else we would have in the East. Sruti, you seem like serenely confident, just focused on March and April.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, it took away the supermax, though, which is good for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That could have been like a salary cap nightmare to have two supermax guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Who criticized that? People did. Yeah, who's that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I think he's a third guy on a championship team And maybe even potentially has the ceiling of being a second guy if he was with somebody incredible, right? Like being the Jamal Murray, Drew Holiday spot if you get to play next to a Giannis or Jokic. All right, thanks for stopping in, Saruti.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Congrats on your heroic effort tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Before we go, Jacoby, you want to talk about Embiid?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
What do you got?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
to me, remember we said that joke about Twitter, like when Twitter was really like a place a lot of people went to that you just wish you could have certain stories and just not even see them, that you could meet the story. If the story was happening, you just wouldn't even know about it. That's how I feel about it. Embiid might play tonight. Embiid's not gonna play tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Embiid's gonna rest tonight. Embiid has some swelling again. Embiid's feeling better. I just, I'm just out. I'm tapping out. I can't do it. The chronic swelling was the most disturbing part of that story I thought this weekend. It's not even like he re-injured or anything. It was like, yeah, it's maintenance because he has chronic swelling. What does chronic swelling mean? None of it sounds good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They really felt like they were starting to turn into something. And they just look slow tonight compared to OKC. You put Luka, you put Kyrie, you put Klay Thompson. Najee Marshall, who was really good in the first half. Those are good players. Those are guys, this is the top five team in the league. And OKC just seemed faster overall. and younger and more athletic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Goldsberry, you were at San Antonio when this was going on with Kawhi. It was a little different. There was more mystery. And Kawhi was younger. He wasn't 7'3", carrying a bunch of weight. But this just has a stranglehold over your franchise after a certain point, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, this happened to the Celtics in 09 with KG. I don't know if you remember. KG got hurt. They were like 31 and five. They had some crazy record. And it was like, KG's coming back. And then it was just, is he coming back? And then it was like, team not sure. Still feeling pain. Nobody's saying anything. And it just turns into this
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Like you said, a black cloud where you don't know game to game we tweak. What's weird is that I guess he looked pretty good in that Bulls game. I didn't watch it. I just saw the highlights.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And Luka, I don't know, what was going on with Luka, Jacoby? What was your take?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, it's like when you see... like in a sports movie, there's like the, the fat old washed up guy who wanders on the court and just starts hitting like 20 footers. It just seems like a bead. He's so skilled from 18, 19 feet. It doesn't matter. They hadn't played for a month. All of a sudden he could just hit nine straight 20 footers. But,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
you know, not to be a party pooper, but, you know, they're in this stretch. They were calling it, Hollinger called it the NBA bye week, basically, where everybody has like one or two games over the course of eight days. And they're playing Chicago, then they have all this rest. So he can have a game. He's playing Vucevic. He's playing the Bulls who are a bottom five defensive team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And he can go out there, get a good run, get his points, not have to worry about playing the next day. It's hard to feel optimistic after that is my point. Like I want to see what their schedule starts to get harder. I think at the end of the year, they've got, did they have a road trip? Is he going to be on the road trip? Is he going to play?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Then there's the part that you mentioned about the teammates being asked about it. What do you think about Joel? How much do you guys miss Joel? It's just day after day. And You know, it's not awesome, especially when you're competing against teams like OKC, where it's like everybody's young and hungry, and they're all doing the post-game press conferences together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And they're hanging out, and they're ready to go. So I don't know how it plays out. I'll tell you this, though. The extension... Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Jacoby, who's your favorite rookie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I wish he made threes. He's like 28% from three, but everything else is there. He's fluid. I know. I like him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Good point. For what he's going to do, I think, this year, I think they're going to have real trouble keeping him out of the lineup. And there's a chance he's their second best player by the end of the year. I just like him. I like how hard he plays. He seems like the kind of guy OKC would have. Just like a really, really, really gives a shit two-way guy. He can't really shoot yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But I thought he was my favorite guy heading into the draft. I thought he's the guy I would have taken number one if I was Atlanta. And everything I've seen from him I would not waver on that one. I want to see more. Reed Shepard is the one I think I'm the most interested by because I don't think Van Vliet's had a good season and the shooting stats back it up. Like they're not good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And I wonder, you know, I know they have like a, I forget if it's a player option or a team option next year, but Reed Shepard within two years will probably be running that team. But I almost, that's one of those where you want like, Van Blee to have some very minor injury for three days or three games just to kind of see Reed Shepard get to drive the car out of the garage a couple times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's weird. I like this draft more than I thought, Kirk. There's a lot of guys. They're not superstars, but there's a lot of guys where I'm like, I kind of like that guy. Even Klingon on Portland. I like Zach Eady. There's a bunch of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, I think Memphis is so deep that I thought he would actually be this important, weird, just kind of throw a cannonball in the pool just to shake it up kind of thing, but they don't need it. They just have too many good bench guys. Their bench is crazy. And the fact that Aldama is actually good now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, true. Yeah, Sar... That's probably the worst possible situation for a guy like that. It's like your team's going to just be awful and you're just going to learn some bad habits. But too early to say what we talk about him. I mean, one other thing with Memphis, like another reason that Edie's probably not even going to play that much is that Brandon Clark...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
has, uh, I, I was so impressed with him in the Boston game, but just, it feels like he's got his explosiveness back and he's a really unique player, like that crazy undersized energy guy that always seems to be on good teams. So yeah, I like the draft. Um, we'll see with Dillingham.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You know what, though? I still think they're the number two team in the West for me if I had to say who can actually make the finals. I still have Dallas second. I don't think this is a great matchup for them. And I was trying to think of the rock, paper, scissors thing with the West. I don't know if you guys saw the OKC Houston game. Maybe it was 10 days ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That was the other one that I was super duper intrigued by, but it feels like they phased them out a little bit because they're trying to get their defense going. Um, so we'll see what happens with that. Who's your most disappointing team? Jacoby, Indiana.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Oh, you're going to zag on me? That's fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's probably Tommy Alter's fault. Who's your most disappointed team, Kirk?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Those are two great choices. Congratulations to both of you. But the answer is the Phoenix Suns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They don't have KD. Make excuses for big shot Bob Sarver. They're 13 and 11. They're like one in nine without KD. Okay. But guess what? They traded all their first round picks. They traded Mikael Bridges. They traded Cam Johnson. They traded DeAndre Ayton. They traded all their second round picks. They traded everything to have basically a three guy team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And one of the three guys has been in the league since 2007 and has a bunch of injuries and has gotten hurt twice. And I don't know why I fell for it. It made me mad. They were one of my favorite overs. I picked them to win the division. I thought they were going to be a 50-plus win team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Houston, I think, is the team in the West that can go toe-to-toe on this crazy, young, hungry pit bull, just speed, athleticism all over the place. I think that's the only way in the West... Nobody's going to overpower them. There's not going to be like, obviously not the Lakers, but the LeBron AD type situation where it's just, oh my God, they just got bully balled.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I forgot the fact that they're built around this guy who's been in the league for 18 years, asking him to be the rim protector, their crunch time scorer, to do 30 a game, nine rebounds a game, make 50% of your shots and 45% of your threes, do everything. And it's like, oh, guess what? He lasted a month before he got hurt twice. And I'm just mad at myself more than anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But you have to be disappointing when you trade players literally a decade of stuff for the team you have in your 13 and 11. So that's my answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. Especially now with all the apron stuff that happened, that trade looks even a hundred times worse. Like you would much rather have the flexibility now, but when you just consider all the assets they sent out for the team that they have now, and it's all hinging on, well, when Durant's healthy, Might not happen. You know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
He's 7'1", and he's had a lot of lower, below-the-hip injuries at this point, and they put a huge burden on him in playing big minutes. And I would just be nervous if I was the Suns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But counter, doesn't everybody have two good guys at this point?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I guess for me, Kirk, with Phoenix, there's always going to be, now that Nurkic is pretty much unplayable, so leaning on Plumlee now as their center, and Tyus Jones, these are like bench guys. These are guys that would be like 10th or 11th players on the Celtics or the Thunder, and these are two of their crunch time guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
70 plus million for Bradley Beal and Nurkic and Bol Bol. Is Bol Bol still on the team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Guys, thanks for staying up with me. It's a pleasure seeing you. Great seeing you in your weird, undisclosed New York City location at one in the morning. We don't know where you are. Be careful walking home, Jacobs. Kirk, great to see you. Even though we were your sloppy seconds tonight, I had a great time talking to you guys. I will see you soon, I'm sure. Thanks for coming on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They got out rebounded by 10 rebounds. I don't see that happening this year. I almost feel like you have to beat them with what they do. Is there anybody else you see, Kirk?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
All right, we're taping this part on a Monday. I did a Rewatchables taping with Kyle Brandt, who we haven't been together in a long time, really since Super Bowl with the Giants and the Pats that I never like to talk about. Craig Horlbeck is here too. Let's talk football. There's no reason for this. We just turned the mics on. Come on. Sal brought up last night on the podcast...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
about whether if you were... Granted, it's like a generic talk show segment, but it really got my brain turning about Josh Allen versus Mahomes. Mahomes, the resume, versus what we're actually watching week to week, game to game, like the shit that he's doing, the shit when they're down 35 to 13 against the Rams. And you're just like... not turning this off. I feel like Josh can bring this back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You've been on the bills thing forever. Yeah. So is anything different this year or is, is, are the, are the toys better for him? Is it just the experience? What is it? What's different between the years?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I can't count out Lamar yet for some reason, but I think it's like, FanDuel would say it's done. It's like, he's like a minus 500 favorite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And so it's like, I just... I'm out. I did this last week. I'm out on the Saquon. I just think like... I want it to. It would be cool, but I don't think they can do it. This is the dumbest way to think about it, but I also think it's the best way to think about it. When somebody gets hurt, what happens to the line? Like if Josh Allen got hurt, the Bills line moves by nine points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
If Barkley gets hurt, the Eagles line moves by like two and a half points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. So that's what, I hate that it has to be a quarterback pretty much every year unless the guy's having the most amazing season ever or there's no like awesome quarterback. But for the most part, this is the most, it's like saying like, no, the pilot's not the MVP of this airplane. It's actually the third flight attendant. Got those peanuts. She's killing it. It's like, you know who's the MVP?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The fucking pilot. Because we're crashing if the pilot doesn't make out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Right, and they have the dopey play with the QB sneak where they waste the time out. Is that this era?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I am. I am stunned that the Steelers have not gotten more credit this year. I don't get it. I don't know what else they have to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They're playing Christmas night, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The Josh thing, the way you laid it out, really makes me think of Peyton Manning, first half of the 2000s, where he had reached this point where he was the best regular season quarterback ever. He was the guy you would take first in fantasy, all that stuff. But you never felt like he was actually going to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And then they end up winning in 06, partly because the Pats choked away a 21-3 halftime lead. In the dome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The problem for the Chiefs is sometimes you can pass the point of no return with weapons. Because, and I said this last time on the pod, like, This did happen to Brady a couple of times where like 06, he was awesome. And we just had nobody. We had Lawrence Moroney and starting running back and Rashay Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney and Ben Watson. It was like, we just didn't have enough weapons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
When we needed third downs, there was that one guy to get open. There was that awesome running back. I don't think the Chiefs weapons are that bad, but there's been some Brady seasons where he was better than the team. And I wonder with Mahomes' shot, I thought he took a lot of hits on Sunday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Or should they have lost? And Allen missed that one throw to Diggs. There was one other play. Like, if you really watch that game closely, it was kind of amazing the Bills didn't win that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
No, there were some weird Patriot years wondering like how we were doing it week after week. But this is different because they're almost adding this degree of difficulty to the wins. And I'm not a lucky person with football. I never really bought into that because clearly they're good. Clearly, like the plays that he was making yesterday, especially in the last drive, that third and 15 was crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And then actually, I don't know who I put in third or just to beat OKC. Would you just have Houston third in general?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Right. The third and seven, you know, he's going to get it. So that's its own skill. I thought what concerned me if I was them was the Chargers, I thought, were really physical with them in the second half in a way that I don't remember seeing with the Chiefs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But you always felt like the Chiefs were going to lose. It was because they dropped the key third down pass or something. I thought the Chargers were pushing them back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And without their best receiver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I like them. So they'll be a six seed, right? Depends, yeah. They'll be whatever behind Baltimore and Pittsburgh. So a six seed would put them probably against either Buffalo or Pittsburgh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That's why they go in. That's why I'm so cautious with the Chiefs because of the Kelsey keeping him in the garage with the tarpon thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Like they're just clearly doing that. Yeah. We didn't see him for two hours in the game yesterday. You know, in fantasy, like people are still paying for him in fantasy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But then you watch Bowers, although Tampa was able to take him out a little yesterday. Bowers is just like Gronk crossed with Kelsey, crossed with like a sports movie tight end. He's open all the time. He's just crushing everybody. And Kelsey could probably do that in January in round two, but I don't think they're using that skill now. So I don't know if I had to rank them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I honestly think Pittsburgh's the safest bet out of the three because of the defense. More than Buffalo. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I think they could beat Buffalo in Buffalo because they can get some explosive plays. But I think Buffalo has a better chance of beating KC. Because the thing with KC that I can't wrap, I feel like if you can get 24 and up on them points-wise, you're probably beating them. Right? Buffalo beat them 30-21. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But Pittsburgh is more likely to play the 18-16, 19-16 type Kansas City game, which is better for KC. So I do feel like there's some rock, paper, scissors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I 100% agree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They knew they could beat Jameis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, but Kyle knows the way to beat the Bills is what the Rams did yesterday. You're just five yard run, four yard run, seven yard run, seven yard pass, three yard run, five yard. You're just chipping away, chipping away, chipping away. Like a punt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But what did they run for? The running game, I thought, was the most interesting part of that. Because Buffalo, I wouldn't say they're like a giant defense. No, not really. It feels like you can push them backwards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Okay. Just for me. But I like that pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I just think that Detroit-Philly talent pedigree... That's good. Especially if you have to go into Detroit round two, round three, and try to take those guys. Whereas the AFC, I don't really love any team. I feel the best about Pittsburgh. I certainly wouldn't feel awesome about Russell Wilson winning three straight playoff games. Yeah, and if this is the year to go against KC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
My holy shit playoff team would actually be the Chargers. I'm with you on that. They can block... And they can chase the passer. And once we get into January, if you can just do those two things, make a couple plays, not turn the ball over and win a couple ugly games. That's what the Chiefs did last year. You know, I was really impressed by that mystery. I think they're the Chargers in a loss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I thought they, I thought they really handled the Chiefs defensive line. I was surprised. And like Herbert misses wide open touchdown, right? He missed another guy like 35 yards down the field. Their running backs are among the worst in the league without Dobbins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Gus Edwards and Vidal. Like, come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And we always look for these angles on what makes the team special, who's going to be the sleeper. This was the first year where I was like, all I care about are coaches and QBs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I did all my over-unders and I was like, If you have a coach or a QB, I'm not even worried that the Chargers don't have receivers. I'm going over. I'm picking them to make the playoffs. They have Harbaugh and Herbert. Doesn't matter. That should be enough. Yes. Whereas like flip side, I don't know, Vegas, I don't understand their quarterback situation at all. I don't know what we're getting into.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I'm out. And I wonder sometimes is football just that simple? Is it all about the QB and the coach and the rest of it is like periphery?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That was my big mistake. I had the Jets over Buffalo in the division. That was my biggest regret. But Rodgers is washed. Like, he's, you know, if you knew he was going to be the 41-year-old washed Rodgers, I wouldn't have picked that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I got so deceived by all the Buffalo dead cap space stuff and transition year. I just, they snookered me. I think they snookered themselves.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The other thing, well, you're forgetting Memphis. And we have to mention that because Jacoby does a podcast twice a week on the mismatch. With somebody who's like, how the fuck could Kurt Goldsberry not mention Memphis for eight minutes there? What the fuck is he doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But like six days ago, everybody was thinking Detroit's defense is so banged up. Philly, the season parted for Philly. That's how I was feeling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. They're exactly frisky. They had a 98-yard drive almost to win a game with three minutes left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And I think also- And they don't really believe in Sirianni either, right? Definitely not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
This is a theory I heard about the Nuggets. you made me think of about like AJ Brown being pissed. Yeah. Like, that it was like, why isn't Jamal Murray playing better? It's like, cause Jokic does everything. This person I know was saying how NBA, it was just a theory. It's like, those guys are tired of just being like Jokic's towel boys and everything's Jokic, Jokic, Jokic. Oh, what a miracle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It must be to play with Jokic. Oh, he gets all the stats and like Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. Where's mine? I want you too. Cause they already won a title.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I mean, counter, is there a wide receiver who's gruntled?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
We have a lot of disgruntled receivers. Do we have gruntled receivers?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Do you buy Minnesota yet? I know that's been a, we, we, for three months, all of us who do podcasts and content, we're all just assuming this was your classic biking season where the stats say they should have been nine and eight and they went 14 to three, but every week, but yeah, the same Donald conversation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Is that true? He does the 15 second fast forward. Memphis right now is fifth offensive rating, seventh defensive rating. The per 36 stats are crazy for them too. Like Ja, who's really only playing like 28 minutes a game, but he would be 28 and 11 if he played 36. Brandon Clark looks great. So from a speed standpoint, Maybe, but I'd kind of like to see those guys play for 20 games, Jacoby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I say to Sal. During the NFC Championship, what happens now? I say to Sal on Sunday's pod, I don't know how they let him go at this point. Like when you have a quarterback that you're built, your team's built around these two awesome receivers that you have, right? You have a quarterback who's clearly clicking with them in a real way, who's made big plays over and over again down the stretch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Why do I have to start JJ McCarthy next year? Why can't I just trade JJ McCarthy? He's the eighth. It was seventh or eighth pick. What was he? Seventh? Seventh pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I know he's coming off a torn ACL.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But you think like I'm trading him for a high second and I get to pay Sam Darnold. I think Sal and I went through all the teams that need quarterbacks. There's probably four legitimate plus maybe Seattle if they don't pay Gino. Maybe Purdy. Sure. Six total. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, we did Million Dollar Picks Thursday and the house was like imploring me to put the Vikings in a parlay. And I was just like, it looks too easy. Something's wrong. I don't know. It makes me nervous. Nobody likes cousins. And we ended up doing it. And Falcon scored 7-0, and I'm texting House like, motherfucker, why did I listen to you, you fucking dick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, but here's the difference with Darnold. If you're just talking about what... If I have a franchise quarterback, what do I want? Do I want size? Well, he has that escapability. He has that cannon arm. Has that... Is he pretty good down the stretch or when you need him to make some plays? He's done that all year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Teammates like him. I don't know what he's missing. I watch quarterbacks for... 10 to 11 hours every Sunday. And most of them are bad. And he's actually pretty good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
We said this about Baker last year and then they signed him and he's been good this year. That's true. The best thing with Darnold is how young he is. What is he like? He's very young. 27, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
If I were them, I would try to sign him for like, hundred for four years, something like that. Try to get him like 25 a year and then try to trade JJ McCarthy. But supposedly he heard his ACL again. So maybe he doesn't even have the same. I just, that to me, that feels like the disaster is like, we had this guy, uh, Now we let him go because JJ's ready. And then what if JJ's not good?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And those receivers are like, what the fuck?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And I'll tell you this, they're dining a lot off that Celtics game on Saturday where the Celtics had played five and seven. They'd played Milwaukee the night before and it's like heated. My dad was saying it was like a third round playoff game kind of intensity. And then the next day the Celts have to run it back and they had no legs, they were dead. And Memphis kind of steamrolled them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You know, as a fan, I was in a situation once with a guy by the name of Tom Brady in 2001. Bledsoe gets hurt. Brady keeps his job, and we're kind of like... Is he going to be the starter? And we'll be like, I don't see what happens. And all of a sudden he won the Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I just, you never know. I like it. The thing is Detroit, Detroit's defense mess. And I don't see how it really gets better. Right. So at least there's a little bit of a hole there. Philly has all the chemistry stuff. Green Bay. I'm not sure I trust Jordan Love. And just in general, I wouldn't pencil them in. Like Minnesota can play with all of these teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They might be the three best teams of the week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I would at gunpoint pick them as well, but I don't feel great about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
No, I would still, life depends on it. I'm still doing Lions, KC. But I just think right now, mid-December. Is it mid-December? It is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I think Pittsburgh is the most complete all-around team right now. I don't know what that's going to mean.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Every fucking week, Russ makes three 40-yard plays or gets a pass interference. There's a play that moves the ball 35 to 50 yards, three times a game with him. And it happens every single week. And at some point, that's what they do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Where it's like the Chiefs get none of those plays. The Chiefs had one 30-yard play to Hopkins and he dropped it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
He does a lot of like running over to the sideline and barking at the OC and shit like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I would go Lady Gaga.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Really strong start. Um, considered a diva pretty early on, did some good stuff, faded a little bit, and then A Star is Born was her Pittsburgh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But, I mean, you root for Russ every week. Yeah. He's surprisingly good. There's just no other way to say it. He's been doing this now for two and a half months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But I don't think they should take too much out of that, Jacobes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, he likes weird. Tomlin likes weird. I mean, he works with Pickens, who's ready to start a giant fight at the end of every game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The other thing with Pittsburgh, their kicker. Is there another kicker you feel better about during any playoff game in bad weather than Boswell? He's like the new Tucker. He lined up like a 54-yarder yesterday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Tomlin, Boswell. I can't find the holes. It's really like, who's going to be that second receiver on third and nine? I know. But Mike Williams had a couple good plays yesterday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Louis. Right, with Arizona.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It especially happens with quarterbacks because it feels like the wrong offensive line... the wrong coach, the wrong team, and they could just get the shit kicked out of them for two years and just completely lose their confidence. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
No question. They just don't want to pay more than 10 to 12. I'm guessing they have a whole thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You talked about the comeback though with him and how unusual that is. The other thing that's unusual for me, I always feel like quarterbacks hit that point of no return. Yeah. It just doesn't seem like they want to get hit anymore, which Rodgers was clearly the last seven, eight weeks. It's like, that guy doesn't want to get hit anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Rodgers, Wilson last year to me, just seemed like he didn't want to get hit anymore. That's why when he's a free agent this summer, I was just like, well, who cares? The guy doesn't, you know, he's made enough money. He won a Super Bowl. He doesn't want it anymore. I know. but it seems like he's okay with getting hit again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
So I don't know whether Tomlin, I just think Tomlin, Tomlin and Reed to me levitate over everybody else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That was another guy with the futures. I just did over on the Rams. I get that they only have seven players. Doesn't matter. Just pick them. As long as they have the QB and two receivers, they can move the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Who's your holy shit team? I have the Chargers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Everyone's going to pick whoever the other team is. It's probably going to be the Chargers. She's going to be like that Browns game last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The Ringer fantasy show hates Stroud big brothering. Doesn't understand it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The Caleb moment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
He's weighing in with his big picture thoughts on everyone he plays against. And it's like, dude, you're in your second year. Settle down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They're 8-5. Baltimore's 8-5. Denver's 8-5 for the 5-6-7. So the key for the Chargers would have to be to somehow get that 5 seed and try to play Houston. But I don't know how realistic that is with their schedule. But if they can somehow get... What do they have left?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Tampa, Denver home.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Tampa, Denver at home for the chargers. Then at Pat's home Vegas, like they could sweep that definitely in Baltimore. I think he's going to have a lot of trouble sweeping. Cause they had that weird Christmas situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's funny that people get mad about the January Lamar thing. It's like... okay, when is it not going to happen? It's just until he doesn't do the January Lamar thing, that's the way it is. The Raven fans are very touchy about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
He looks like a UFC fighter. He's like this UFC middleweight hanging out outside the octagon waiting to see who's going to fight in the next UFC card. But it's Chad Holmgren. He's 7'1".
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Tua media is the worst, though. The Tua fan base. The Tua people who think he was good yesterday. He was 23 for 37, no picks. It's like, all right, I watched the game. He had 10 terrible throws. Like, stop. I don't trust Tua.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Now it's going to go the other way. Everyone's going to overvalue it in next year's draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I'm in the camp of, and I have three teams, two that did badly and one that's doing well. But I just... I just want to have a good QB. That's all I care about. I feel like I can patch together everything else, but like anyone who has Lamar or Josh Allen or Burrow in any of these leagues, you're just like, fuck, that guy's probably going to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Mahomes has turned into that too for different reasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Before we go, New York, because you're in New York, Giants versus Jets. Which team is more down? Which franchise fan base is more down in the dumps right now between those two?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They've hit that point where they're apologizing? It's been a while.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
What about the Danny Dimes playoff win in Minnesota?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, but they were like 9-8 that year or whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, it's tough because the Red Sox fans used to be like this too before we won the World Series where it's this rare combination of fatalism and thinking things aren't going to go wrong, but then before the season, like this crazy optimism. It's like, how are these two things the same? Where it's like March spring training in 2000, like, this is it. Here we go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The Vegas, the odds for the Boston team, they could always put them down because they knew all these dumbasses would come from Massachusetts and bet it. Yeah. And the Jets have those fans, too, that they actually think it's going to work out. And then there's people like Fennessey who's like, this is going to be a beautiful disaster. Sean had the best tweet ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, we haven't seen their... I mean, what we did get to see tonight, especially was the Hartenstein piece, the whole, the kind of rebounding center rim protection guy that they just haven't had. Like we were talking about some of the matchups with them. One of the things that's interesting with Houston is Houston's first in the league in rebounding. They're almost averaging 50 rebounds a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Like, it is an F. They basically had, what, seven one-score games that they had the ball in the last three minutes, but somehow didn't win any of them. I don't know how they fixed it either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The funny thing, I watched that whole Jets-Miami game because they had Miami in a parlay. Miami was terrible the whole game. They looked like they didn't want to be there. They looked like they were the team that was 3-10. And the Jets were into it. They were trying to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Their offense was better. And somehow Miami still won the game, and it was basically because the Jets, as usual, just fucked up completely with three minutes left. F. Pretty brutal. Yes. So what would you rate this season from A-plus to F-minus? What's the grade for the season so far through 14 weeks?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, just as a whole. For content, storylines, excitement, everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I mean, we did lose Aiden O'Connell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Okay, good. Maybe he'll be back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
What do you have for a grade?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Also, they're the rare public team that's actually really fun to watch every week. I genuinely enjoy watching their offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You feel like you do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I would be at an A-, but the Drake May thing puts me at a solid A. I'm just out of my mind about how fun this Drake May thing is. I can't believe he's this good already. I just can't believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's crazy that he's this far along and... You know, I've had terrible quarterbacks and I've had the greatest quarterback ever. Like, and you just, I don't know if he's going to be even in the ballpark of somebody like Brady, but he's clearly a franchise guy. Like worst case scenario, I feel like he could at least be like Herbert.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, I thought that new coach, I thought you guys bumped back Oh, no, that was the opposite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I think that was the only pick I lost, and it was over five minutes into the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You know what? Sometimes I like the counting stats. I know the fancy kids. They love the advanced stats. And Kirk's got his efficiency map. And I love all that stuff too. But sometimes I like to know who gets the most rebounds every game. And Houston's getting 50 a game. So to Jacoby's point, Kirk, like... I do feel like they need Chet and Hartenstein in a Houston series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I did. I was like, new coach bump. Definitely. They figured out Caleb just getting rid of the ball fast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Well, that was like when Antonio Pierce got the job and they were smoking cigars after the first win. And then within nine months, Devante Adams is like, give me the fuck out of here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Put up with the cigars.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The only interim coach who actually should have been hired was Pit Boss Rich, the Raiders guy. Oh, Tom Cable? Rich Persuccia, whatever. Oh, Versace. Yeah, Versace. Special teams coach. Pit Boss Rich. Rich Persuccia. He'd come in with like, all right, guys, I'll be back in 20.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
They were in the playoffs that time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
My dream is Drake May, year two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Vrabel. Brian Dayball, offensive coordinator. Let's go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's not a head coach opening though, Bill. What are you talking about? Well, there might be if we lose these last four games. The problem is we're going to go to Arizona and he's probably going to throw for like 360 and beat Arizona and then Mayo will keep his job.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Thanks for asking. Because I've obviously studied a lot. My dad is now wading into the draft waters as well. Just finding out about this TMAC character, this wide receiver. It doesn't feel like they're going to be a top five team, but there's no top five left tackle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Which sets us up for the trade down, which I'd feel great about if we had an owner that wasn't 83 years old and we had an actual GM and not an interim GM. But it feels like they have to trade back. I'm in the camp of, I would take Hunter if we had the third pick. Really? If he's there. He just seems like he's going to be a superstar. I'm going to change my mind on this a hundred times, but like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It just seems like sometimes these guys get in the draft and everybody's just like, that guy's special. And he just seems like that guy's special guy. You could have said this about Marvin Harrison last year, though. And he hasn't turned into that special. But there's no left tackle. This is the one draft where there's like no, even like a Joe Alt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
No. Who's the defensive line guy? There's like an awesome defensive tackle. That's another one. Like, what is it goes wrong to have like an awesome defensive tackle? It's like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
The father-son Vegas thing feels like a Raider.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But the flip side with Houston is I still don't really know who their go-to guy is. I watch them game to game and it's like, because they're my favorite league pass team. And it's like, really? We're doing the Fred VanVleet step back? That's our shot with 50 seconds left? I don't think they know. They'll go to Shangoon sometimes, depending on the matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. It is the most fun destination for those guys. Yeah. It's amazing. Because the team's a disaster every year anyway, so we might as well have the same.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I had somebody who knows stuff tell me about the Pats. Like, if that job did become available, they said, you know, it's actually like a destination job now. Yeah. Because of Drake May. I was like, I need a cigarette. Six to midnight, Bill. Just give me a lighter. I just need a cigarette. I just want to reflect this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
And if you're craving even more, we've got you covered with game day deals on pizza, burgers, tacos, and more. All season long. Uber Eats, official on-demand food delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms, taxes, and fees apply. See app for details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But I think with Vegas, the fun part would just be having some sort of personality with that franchise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
I like your theory. Thank you. All right. I'm going A, A minus, B plus. Kyle Brandt. Yes. Great to see you as always. Craig. Thanks, Craig. Pleasure. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacoby and Goldsberry. Thanks to Kyle and Craig. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti and Jesse Lopez. Thanks to Gahow and Jack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Thanks to you guys for making it through our second podcast of the week. I'm going to have another one on Thursday. I'm going to have an NBA six-pack. I'm going to have million-dollar picks. I'm going to have a guest. Stay tuned. Get ready to buckle up. I'll see you on Thursday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But it's kind of like a last shot by a committee team, which makes me nervous in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Five for nine from three. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Houston does have Dylan Brooks doing Dylan Brooks stuff. I think SGA would be the best guy in the West if Jokic wasn't averaging a 56.1 a game points, rebounds, and assists. He's in the 56 club right now. It's like him and Will Chamberlain. It's just the two of them. They're hanging out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Jokic is having the greatest statistical season of our adult lifetime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It's early, right? I mean, Denver hasn't won two straight games for a month. I don't know what's going on with Jamal Murray. Jokic, I promise you, isn't like, oh, cool, I scored 104 points this weekend. That's not what he's about. But I don't know if he has a choice. I want to see if it's 47, 48 wins is kind of the cutoff for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
But if you're a six seed or a seven seed, I think it gets tough if there's some real candidates. I think Tatum's a candidate. SGA is absolutely a candidate. Jacobs, I think the thing that would... really clinch it for SGA having an argument, maybe even becoming a favorite as if OKC just becomes like a 65 win team, which I think is in play as hard as the West is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
It seems like an accident when they lose. I'm always surprised when they lose, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You were like that, Jacobs. When you were taking a lot of shots, you were never happy. I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
You want to do no looks and you wanted to do good entry passes and just play team basketball. That's like Jokic. Exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
We did Disclosure, which is now one of the strangest movies of the 1990s. It's now kind of a comedy, as weird as that sounds. Me, Van Latham, Big Waz, we broke it all down. And you can watch it as well on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Speaking of YouTube channels, we launched our Ringer TV channel that has the Prestige TV podcast to watch. We're gonna do some fun, shorter videos on there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, because Murray is kind of like Jokic's basketball wife. And with Westbrook now, he's kind of flirting with the office assistant who just kind of moved into the office. And it's like, whoa, Jokic just went to get coffee with Westbrook. Does Murray know about this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck
That second game. The SGA thing, I always say this every year. It's just crazy to me after going to some of those games when he was a rookie that this is the guy he is now. That he's in a game with Luka where he just completely obliterates Luka and Luka's team. They have no answer for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Coming up, I'm going to bat around a 2025 NBA trade value list with Ryan Rosillo. It's fun. It's next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like Denver is not trading for him. Even if Miami was like, all right, fine. We'll take Porter and we'll take Zeke Nagy for four years. You can have Butler. I don't know if that changes Denver's ceiling. They already have enough outside shooting problems. If they were playing worse, I might think about it, but I actually really like the way they're playing, even though they lost last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
We'll see what happens. You're totally ruling out Phoenix. I don't think anyone wants Beal. And even if they wanted Beal, I don't know if he would agree to go to the trade. But I watched the game last night. I just don't think Beal's good. He's fine. He's a rotation guy. But for $50 million a year, that's the worst contract in the league. And he doesn't play every time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think there's a reason Phoenix has... tried to move away from that big three model with him. And I think there's a reason everybody is like, yeah, no thanks. Cool. Oh, I get Bradley Beal this year and the next two. No thanks. Like everyone throws Chicago and, you know, could he go to Milwaukee? Why would Milwaukee want Bradley Beal?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
They're going to have him and Dame at the same time trying to play defense. That's crazy. I just can't find a team for him either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That trade was horrible. That was the all time we took a $2 bill and turned it into three quarters and a dime because it gives us more flexibility. That's a team that they're at the blackjack table losing hand after hand going, give me more. I'm going to double down. Oh, you're kidding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're talking about the trade?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The actual Phoenix trade. You're acting like Phoenix is a rational team that puts thought into the shit they do. That trade was idiotic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but at that point, you're Tim Daly's character in The Sopranos, the screenwriter who's on the 48-hour gambling binge just getting killed. And he's like, just give me 25 grand more. I'm going to win this back. That's Phoenix and Ishbir right now. Just give me, let's split the picks up. We'll have some flexibility. We'll try to win this back. It's like, this ship has sailed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're not, you're not doing anything and you're not getting Jimmy Butler for what you have. And if, if anyone takes Bradley Beal and allows you to get Jimmy Butler, I can't imagine a team in the league that's dumb enough. Maybe I'll be wrong. Maybe they'll cut this clip out and be like, like, I don't see why anybody would want Bradley Beal. 50 million this year, 50 million the next two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
In the second apron era. Who wants that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'm trying to figure out my annual trade value list that we're going to run on ringer.com. So I brought in Rosillo as my conciliary. As we're taping, Sham Sharania breaks the news that Sacramento is now ready to explore De'Aaron Fox trades, which of course we did not talk about, even though this trade value podcast is almost two hours long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You think this bugs me? I just called my accountant. I just can't believe how much money I'm going to make the rest of the year. I'm fine. Let's take a break. We got to talk trade value. The FanDuel Kick of Destiny is back, and this time, it's every Manning for himself. This Super Bowl, two legends take the field in a sudden death field goal showdown. Peyton versus Eli, live from New Orleans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
May the best Manning win. FanDuel, official partner of Super Bowl 59. Must be 21 plus in president-select states or 18 plus in president DC. No purchase necessary. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambly problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-health.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard To learn more, the creditor and issue of this card is U.S. Bank National Association. Pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc., some restrictions may apply. All right, so the trade value rules really quickly. This is not a top 100 list. This has to do with age of the players, salaries mattering, contract length, happiness, and degrees, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So if you're talking about one player that's 35 versus an up-and-coming star that's 23, that's crazy. Alman Thompson's a good example. Yeah, Almond Thompson for Kevin Durant, if it was just this year, maybe you'd want Kevin Durant for the playoff run. But big picture as an asset for your team, for age, rookie contract, the whole thing, you'd want Almond Thompson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You'd want to be in the business of him for the next 15 years. So that's a good way to think about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, here's the thing. So I've been working on this list for two weeks. And there was a version of it a couple of days ago where I had him 20 and I emailed it to a friend of mine and I was like, does anything jump out? And he's like, Jesus, you have Thompson that high. And I'm like, I actually do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'll let you guess where Fox was in the rankings, but let's just say he was in the top 25. For trades, Miami, Maybe I think Butler has to be in it and a bunch of picks and, um, God only knows what else, or maybe, maybe it's built around Tyler here on picks, but Miami jumped out to me as a possibility. Brooklyn, if they want to trade some of their, uh, some of their big stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like, I don't know if you've watched the last four weeks, but what's happening here is, is really, really, really crazy. The athleticism, the defense, the rebounding, the fact that he's starting to figure out how to create his own shot, how to beat guys off the dribble. He didn't win the game in Boston last night. Like what happened in Boston last night? Wasn't like, Oh my God, what a great game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like he's been moving this way for five weeks and he's the best ass on, on that team. And it's not close. I think he's an automatic hangup. If you call Houston now, they don't need, they're like, what? No, we're not trading him. They hang up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You called him a 1% athlete. I think he's like a 0.1% athlete. I think you're, you're the best to ever do it. I don't know. I don't like, I just think athletically, He's on some rare plane that only a few guys I've seen have been at.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like when we're talking about young Kawhi, young Pippen, Westbrook, Derek Rose, those early years, MJ, obviously there's a, it's like a very small list and he's on it. And you saw some of the stuff he was doing on both ends last night. Like even Tatum going by him and getting, you know, layups or shots you want. Thompson's always almost there. Like he almost blocks it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like he, you really have to work to get by him. I just love watching him play. And I think the thing that is probably so hard to figure out when he, where was he? Overtime elite. Yeah. How do you figure out the competitiveness piece for a kid who's like 17 playing in some goofy league? Right. The thing that's great about him is how like relentlessly competitive he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like I just I'm such a huge fan. And for whatever reason, Jabari got hurt. They went a little smaller with him. It unlocked something. And now if I were them, I wouldn't trade for anybody. You know, they're a two seed. They've had some big wins this week. I wouldn't mess with this. Just let's see how far we can go. Let's keep pushing Thompson a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Let's nudge and see really what's there short-term, long-term. And next year we'll figure it out or this summer. Right? I think that's the move. Because the wins they had this week, you really have to start thinking... eh, but what if they did, what if they did this? Could they like make the finals? We've seen teams like out of nowhere and we've argued about this in the past.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If you have a chance to make the finals, how far do you go? In this case, I'd probably wait because I think all their flexibility comes this summer once they can trade those Shangoon and Jay McGreen deals. And so you want to know heading into the summer what to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And, um, the only thing that doesn't make sense with them is they're trying to tank this year, but it just seems like the kind of foundational guy for them. San Antonio definitely has the pieces to try to get him, uh, throw some picks in, they can make the contracts work and then try to pair him with Wemby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think he's a once a week guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And yet they did it yesterday. Four seconds left. They ran the play for him and they were like, just beat Jalen Brown off the dribble. and just do some crazy athlete thing. And even as he's like what you said earlier, it's almost like the baby deer on ice thing. Sometimes with him in offense where it's like, he's moving so fast, he can't even control it, but he still got the shot off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Jay broke Jalen's ankles. Um, It's the most fascinating development of the year for me. When we're talking about, I'm not surprised Wemby ascended the way he did. I'm not surprised SGA is having the year he is. Neither of us are surprised by anything with the Cavs. This is Thompson becoming like a top 20 trade asset. I did not have that on my bingo card.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But when you're shooting 50-40-90 or 50-40-80 for three months, I'm not going to go, I won't do all like the honorable mentions, second apron casualties, can't believe they missed the top 80, toughest omissions. But I did send you the list. And the toughest omissions for me, I'll just rip through them quickly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Reed Shepard, Jaden McDaniels, Anthony Black, Klingin, Matherin, Dillingham, Beef Stew, who I love at four years 60, but couldn't put him on. Terry Eason, Sohan, Thompson's brother, Peyton Pritchard, Mark Williams, and Nembhard. Is there anybody that jumped out on that list? You're like, oh man, they should have made the trade value.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then Houston, which we talk about in this podcast you're about to hear, which I think Houston's going to be afraid to do a major move, but they certainly have the pieces if they want to go get Fox, which I've been talking about for six weeks. If they wanted to turn Van Vliet and a bunch of their picks and maybe, you know, Cam Whitmore to make the contracts work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I like how competitive he is. He's a real alpha. There's no way he hasn't had conversations with buddies where one of his buddies is like, yo, this should be your team, not Halliburton's. He's like, I know. Just waiting. Just waiting for it to become my team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, because I like his contract, and he puts up numbers and stats, and he plays hard. But it's a good argument. All right, I'll bold Matherin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This year is a top 85. It's unusual. There were years in the mid 2000s when it was a top 40 and I was barely getting to 40, like barely, like squeezing shoehorning names in to try to get to 40. This year, I really probably could have done a top 100. The league is so deep. You don't really realize it until you're making a list like this. So the top 85, the
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The highest group is group O, quality assets, and just going from 85 to 75. Nikola Vucevic, who on the right night could have 40 points. DeJounte Murray, Kaminga, Jalen Wells, Herb Jones, Jared McCain, Walker Kessler, Kobe White, Jabari Smith, DeAndre Hunter has a good contract, and Cam Johnson, number 75. So that's the first group.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And your question, Easton was a tough one for me too because I really like him and I didn't know if I was overrating him or not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't think it's... 60-40. Thanks for doing splits with me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So in this quality assets list, the hardest one for me, whether to include him or not, was DeJounte Murray. who's got a fatter contract and whose teams never seem to do well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I don't know whether it's his fault or not, but at some point, if you're going to hit your 30s and this just keeps happening where every team you're on is either disappointing or underachieving and you're one of the main guys, I have to look at you. But that's one. And then Kaminga was the other one just because he's a free agent next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And, uh, and just try to go all in and get him and add him to the team. It would be risky because they're playing really well right now. But those were the ones that jumped out. Other than that, um, I don't really see a fit, but I guess, I guess we'll see. So Darren Fox on trade block, you were about to listen to the trade value breakdown for 2025.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I think that complicates the asset piece because if you trade for him, you also have to pay him. I put Jalen Wells in there because he's playing big minutes for this Memphis team and he's guarding the best guy in the other team every game. And at some point that's, that's got to matter. Like they're winning with him. He always has the toughest defensive assignment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I think for, for a team relying on two rookies like that with 82, like it's been, it's really unusual to see a team that's good. relying on guys who it's their first year in the league and in like significant roles, like Haiti come in and we're going to run offense through you and protect the rim. Like it's unusual. Anyway, I really, I really like, well, so I want to put them on there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
All right. Next group. This group is called before the second apron shit. I absolutely would have hung up, but what are you thinking? So this is six guys, number 74, Porzingis, Aaron Gordon, Damian Lillard, Zach Levine, Drew Holiday, and Pascal Siakam. All the big contracts that you would have felt better about two, three years ago. Is Dame too high, too low, or just right for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So his contract, this is year one. He had an extension. So it's basically five years and 150. So it's pricey. It's not crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So I think that makes his value higher just because you know, it's, it's just too, Jokic is at such a crucial point of his career and he's such an important player, not just for this generation, but just historically, like I just know Aaron Gordon's good with him. So I'm not trading him, you know, it would really have to take something for me to give up, give him up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This is where we're going to sort out the finalist. Rosillo is here. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this late Tuesday morning Pacific time. Ryan Rosillo is here. It's been a while for us. Once we get through football season, we're going to be doing Sunday nights again, talking hoops and a whole bunch of other stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You know, if, although he's been really good the last couple of weeks and I think we're all a little happier with what we're seeing, but I would be more worried about that because you can't miss on the $50 million contract. You can overpay a little bit on the guys making 30.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Levine should be behind Gordon. Okay. Do you like Levine? I do. I'm stunned. It's another shocking thing that's happened this season. Because I've watched him multiple times be the best guy on the court in games against really good teams. And it wasn't like once. We're talking seven, eight, nine times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Where it's just, he's really hard to defend and he's playing, I think as well offensively as he's ever played. And I, I just, I value the offense. He's a 25 points a game guy that can go toe to toe with whoever at the end of a game, you know, it's not nothing like I would rather have him than Dame at this point. Cause I can find, I can find point guards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think it's much harder to find these swings that can create a shot. Like if golden state somehow got Zach Levine and I don't think it would take a ton. he would be so huge for them because they have no other guy who can create a shot other than Steph. And how many times can you run Steph in a semi-circle and set him picks and do a little hand, like they have nothing else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
They have nobody else unless until Kaminga comes back. So.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I will fully admit he's flawed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's a 71 trade asset. It seems fair.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Jalen's had a couple of tough ones. Jalen Brown has had a couple of tough ones this year in that respect. Like if you just watch him. Me not helping on the maxi inbounds. He'll end up with the stats. But if you watch the game, he'll have games where he just does 20 things you don't like. And you could make a YouTube clip.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I just think he's had a really rough season compared to what happened last year, where he really, I think, won a lot of us over as this guy has taken a step up. And I feel like this year he's gone back to where he was two years ago. And there's just really, especially watching them in person two nights in a row, he's been really messy this year. And I'm waiting for it to...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
not be the case anymore, and I'm just not seeing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, that's the thing. So you're hoping in April it doesn't become messy anymore and it's back. But I'm just saying the regular season's been messy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, he doesn't have it, but I do think if you're going to complain about the rules, not you, but just in general, the second apron, how hard it is to do trades. Like the one good thing that's happened with all of this is it's forced guys like Levine to be like, I guess I'm stuck here. I'm just going to have to play well. And he's had for what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
For what he is, I think he's achieved whatever his talent ceiling is. I think he's achieved that. I also think now that Lonzo's kind of back, like Lonzo's getting thrown in these trade rumors. He's an expiring contract, 20 million. If you watch the Bulls, I'm not positive I would even trade Lonzo. I kind of like the bulls. I'm not even sure they should do anything. Wait, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't feel like any of their, any, they're not going to actually get anything for any of their players. So it's like, well, why am I doing anything? I'll just make the plan and try to upset somebody. I don't, it doesn't seem like any of their players are properly valued. It's like, I wouldn't just give away Vucevic. Oh, thanks. You're giving me two twos for Vucevic. I'm not doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'm not giving away Levine and taking back a bad contract. I'll trade Levine. I'll get Bradley Beal back. Why would I do that? Why would I give away Lonzo? I like watching Lonzo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Then go higher and just lose your pick outside the lottery. Let's take a break and then a really fun next category. This episode is brought to you by Viore. I love sports. I know you do too. I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear, especially, you know, I do a lot of walking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But I'm bringing you in right now, Rosillo, as the trade value list conciliary. A thing that I have now been doing for 25 years, a quarter of a century, the trade values list, which is not a rankings. It's a trade asset list. Trying to figure out who the biggest trade asset is. in the NBA is, but before we do that, what side are you on in Jimmy Butler versus Miami? Do we have to pick a side?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Next category, possible studs on rookie deals. Going from number 68 to 62, Koulibaly, Saar, Messi. Did you expect this from him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I like nine of their players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I have him at 66, Ware at 65. A stunning turn of events for him. And I was guilty of saying it too. It's like, oh man, imagine if... Miami had taken connect or Jared McCain. And then where the last few weeks has looked like a, you know, the kind of young big at a cheap price that anyone would want research. I'm never selling my stock on him. What case on Wallace at 63. And then Derek Lively at 62.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Those are our possible studs. on rookie deals. And for trade value purposes, having those guys, if those guys can play a rotation role and you're paying 4 million, 3 million, 6 million, that's where you want to be. Next group. Nope. He's worth way more to us than to you. Number 61, Devin Vassell. Now this trade value starts to get fun right around here. Number 60, Zubats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Wasn't prepared for him to be that high in the list, but I don't know how many Clipper games I have to watch where... He's the best center in the game. His contract is three for 58. Too high, too low, or right range for him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I think we do. Is this one of those things where you just have to go one side or the other?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Instead of a pocket pass, I would call it the tibia pass. It always ends up somewhere between the guy's feet and his knee. And the guy's seven feet tall. It's like, I'm pretty sure he's not going to be able to take that pass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The deliverer of said pocket pass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So two Clippers in the top 60. Next three I'm going to put in a row. Number 58, Scottie Barnes. Number 57, Trey Young. Number 56, Jamal Murray. Big contracts. Contracts you had to do. I don't think the team feels awesome about the contracts, but you kind of, it's like those no recourse contracts. Um, How would you rank those three? I have them. Murray had a young and Barnes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Is that the right, is that the right order for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So I'm one of the many reasons I'm glad you're here. I don't see the Scotty Barnes thing. like some others. And I might be too down on him, but I do think when you're the best guy in the team and the team doesn't win at some point, some of that's gotta be on you because I like, I think this, the Toronto team is actually pretty interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If you, if you watch them, they have guys all over the place. Even like, uh, uh, uh, it's like a 45% three point shooter. It's like their ninth man. Like they have skilled players. I don't understand why they're not better. Um, So anyway, you could talk me into him being 38 or you could have talked me into being here. And I, I aired on, I haven't really seen him be an impact guy on a winning team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Trey young, at least has been an impact guy on a winning team. Jamal Murray won a title Tyler hero. Who's number 55. And I think he's been a more efficient, better offensive player than all those other guys. I just would rather have Tyler hero at three for 93, then pay the max for Scotty Barnes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, this is one of the ones I really wanted to hash out. Like he's averaging twenty eight and six, twenty eight and six. this season. He's shooting 27% from three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I guess my fear for him, and this would actually be a good outcome for his career, but there was that Iguodala stretch in Philly when he was miscast as the lead guy who's like, I'm going to be the guy who carries our offense at the end of games. And I'm our number one guy. And guess what? The team never won.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then once that got repositioned as like, no, I'm actually an awesome overqualified player. number three guy or number four guy. And I'm going to guard the best guy in the other team. And I'm going to learn how to hit three points. And I'm just like completely additive. And then he found his destiny. I wonder if that's Scotty Barnes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I wonder if he's just miscast right now is we're going to run our offense through Scotty Barnes. I don't think you're going to win games. If you're running the offense through him, at least the player is now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's like a movie where they couldn't find the guy to put on the poster. And it's a bunch of character actors and role players. And it's like, ah, I don't know. Kind of wish we had Nick Cage in this one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
As a straight up deal though, like Scottie's making. Well, I don't mid forties, but that's part of the trade by thing. Norm's making 17 million a year, averaging 24 points a game. So you have to factor in the salary. Do I want to pay Scottie Barnes 45 or Norm Powell 17, whatever the numbers are. That's what, that's where this gets hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Because if I'm paying Scottie the number I'm paying him, I only have money to pay two, two and a half guys that much money. Right? So now I'm all in. He's got to be one of my best two guys on the team trying to win the title. And I don't know if he's that guy yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
When you factor in the salaries, yeah. If I'd rather pay Tyler Hero $30 million. But you might be right. That's why we're doing this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But that second apron is a part of this, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
OK, I'm going to move him down and I'm going to put him in a new spot. And I actually have a better category. You talk me into it. I'll move them up 10 spots. And I might be wrong. I will fully admit I might be too glass half empty. There's a couple guys in the league I'm a little too glass half empty on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I was like, damn, 50 spots. Well, Paolo's another one that I wasn't sure the right rank for him. All right, so we'll go 59 Harden, 58 Trae Young, 57 Jamal Murray, 56 Hero, and then 55 Isaiah Hartenstein, who is just a winning player on a good contract. And I value what he does. When he's out there, his team plays better. And I just feel like they wouldn't trade him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think he has an incredible amount of value for them. And that's that. Is Trey too low? Which way? Would you put him higher into the 40s or would you put him backwards? Because he's got a lot of intrinsic value to the Hawks, to the franchise as like their guy. And they built a pretty nice set of assets around him that complement what he does.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
you know, but I also, I'm not sure what his trade value would be around the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And had a contract for this year and a player option for next year. I think that's the unusual part about it, is that there was real years on the book left. I really feel like I want to pick a side, but I kind of see both sides. What's Butler's side? Give me the anti-Miami Heat side. I think Butler's side is his relationship has been bad with the Heat for a couple years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Oh, you think so, Dr. Boogadat's quote.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Every three weeks at Congo, it looks like Bill Russell in like 1963. It's got to mean something. Yeah. And I guess I wanted to put him in this list and I didn't, couldn't find a spot for him, but he's a top 85. Hey, next group.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This is a one person group. It's called, sorry, I can't answer your call. I'm taking a long, sad walk. Please leave message after the beep. And that is number 54, Joel Embiid. I have no idea what Joel Embiid's trade value. You could tell me that Philly has to attach picks to trade him. You could tell me people would offer picks for him. I have no idea. You could tell me anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I would believe it. And you don't know either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I would, if I want to sound a little... Can I DocuSign that right now? Can you just send that to me right now? I got a DocuSign. I have it open.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'll bring my own Sharpie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It was handled horrendously by the team. It was handled horrendously by Embiid. And it's gotten worse the whole season. And I know a bunch of Sixer fans, all of them are in that zone of just like, why aren't you just telling us what's going on? Why the secrecy? Why are you hiding things? Why is this so murky at all times? It's, you know, it just sucks the life out of the franchise, the fans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But then say you don't know because they tried to say in the beginning of the season, they tried to make it seem like, oh, he's doing some knee management stuff. And he clearly is not going to be able to play three games in a row. And if he does, you know, the other thing when he plays well and they're like strategically picking these games or it's like, hey, Charlotte tonight, you want to play?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Charlotte. Great. All right. Let me, let me give that a whirl. Um, but I don't think, does anybody think he's going to be able to play four straight playoff rounds?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Do you think he played three? Do you think he played two? What's going to be better about this two months from now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And he took them to the finals in 2000 and 2023. And I think at some point he felt like, you know, I brought you guys here. You guys tried to embarrass me in the press conference last year. You won't talk about an extension. You obviously don't care if I'm here two years from now. So what's the point of this? With that said... I don't think he's handled it well either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Also, we've been basketball fans for a long time. We've seen some things. And the direction this has gone, we just have a mental history of other guys where we've watched this kind of arc or lack of an arc. And it's like, C-Web, no, once the microfracture surgery goes through, it'll be fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He should be, you know, the only one I can remember where the guy was gone and it seemed bleak and then he came back and was really good was Amari Stoudemire. especially in the 2010 season, that first stretch with the Knicks in 2011, where it seemed like he had hit that point where you just could never rely on him again. And then he did rally back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Embiid's carrying, I don't know, 50, 60, 70 extra pounds and more inches and everything. And I just think Yao Ming was another one. Yeah, his feet aren't good. And then all of a sudden he was just out of basketball. I think with these tall guys, when it goes in this direction, the history of the league says it keeps going in that direction. Samson was another one in the late 80s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Got traded to Golden State. Oh, this will go great. Oh, new team. And his knees are better. And he was out of the league in three years. So the fact that he's just not playing basketball that much is historically a horrible sign.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
um next do you think there's a trade real quick though do you did you think of any trade that you would go this could actually be some because i don't even know how you would start the conversation no the the i think i mentioned this on a pot a couple weeks ago it's an all-time bullet dodge by the knicks because i do think they would have gone all in for him last summer and instead they went down this bridge's town's path instead which turned out to be
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Way better thing. But I think they would have given up the goods for him. I don't know if there's another team, though. You'd have to have a huge salary that goes the other way. It would have to be a pretty desperate team. And it would honestly be irresponsible to trade for him with the contract he has when you don't know if he can play or not. I wouldn't do that if I was an owner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Would you trade deal for him? So Beal three years left this year and the next two, but I get out of the Embiid business.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But that doesn't solve my Philly problem because I'm taking on another bad contract. I'd rather just keep my fingers crossed with Embiid. Next group, very valuable assets on very good contracts. Number 53, Nas Reed, who's making $12 million a year. He's one of the best contracts of the league. Lou Dort, another one who makes nothing. Norm Powell, Austin Reeves.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
who really should have listened to us when we were telling them to sign with the Spurs. Derek White, Jared Allen. The Spurs didn't listen. The Spurs didn't listen. Next group is valuable assets on not as good contracts. Move Scotty Barnes here to 47, thanks to his agent, Ryan Russillo. Shangoon at 46, Markanen at 45, O.G. Ananobi at 44.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think a lot of us, including me and you, have been in some pretty hairy professional situations where you ended up not liking people you worked with or the employer you had. And at some point, you still have to kind of do your job. And I think that's where it's tough to side with him. On the Miami side, Riley just seems like he's...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Um, I just don't love the contracts, but love the player marketing is the one that I think has been the weirdest one this season. Cause he's just, his stats aren't the same. You're paying him as a franchise guy who can, uh, you know, wait last year, he was winning games and beating teams, having best player in the floor games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Hasn't really been the same this year, but I also wonder if he's just on cruise control and cause they're tanking. Any thoughts or.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, who's his buddy? Who's the point guard on this team who's looking out for him and getting him good shots? I'm going to say nobody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, and also, it's two guys Golden State went after last year and didn't get. Him and Paul George. And for what they would have had to give up for Markkinen, maybe you're relieved a little bit if you're Golden State. Would have been a ton of draft picks. You're giving up Wiggins. You're putting Kaminga in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And for what you've seen from Markkinen this year, not that he's not a good player, but I just don't know what's your destiny if you're Golden State. If you're built around Curry and Markkinen. I don't know where that takes you. You're not in any different of a spot than Phoenix is. Group H, always the toughest guy to figure out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This group's called, you realize he has a no trade clause and he's 40, right? It's LeBron James. I don't, they're not trading him. I don't think anyone's trading for him and it's a useless exercise to talk about him. All right, next group. Let me save you some time. Fuck no. Really fun group here. Number 42. That's impressive. Castle, 41. Trey Murphy, 40. Josh Hart, 39. Dyson Daniels, 38.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Desmond Bain, 37. Darius Garland, 36. Jalen Suggs. We're getting into some real trade assets now. I'm fine to admit that I'm overrating Castle if you think I am. I just really like him. I'm all in. I have a house on Castle Island already. I'm in. I'm completely in on that guy. And the question would be, should he be that much higher than the other guys in the draft? In my opinion, yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think he's going to be a guy who could be a top three guy on a title team. And I think he's a really nice person for the Wembley experience as we travel through it for the next seven, eight years. That's a guy who can win titles with them. So I might override him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
tried to antagonize him and alpha dog him in a bunch of different ways, in ways that if you knew anything about Jimmy Butler, it's like, you get on this road and there's no going back. So I see both sides, but I will say this, they've torpedoed his trade value at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'm really interested to see what happens with them next two months and with San Antonio in general, because I actually think their record's lower than maybe it should be. We all went under on them. Or I went under on them. Maybe you went over on them before the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think, did you go over? No, I went under.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Just because I thought the West was too good and I didn't see the path for them to be in the high 30s. But they're in a lot of these games and Wemby's terrifying. And if Castle gets better down the stretch... Who knows? Trey Murphy I'm putting at 41 because I liked last year for him. I think they fucked him this year with the contract extension. Couldn't really work out all summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Didn't know if he was getting it. Then he gets it. Got hurt. But if you've watched him the last couple weeks, that's just the kind of guy you want on your team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I mean, I think you could just get him now for two expirings and they're like, good, take them because they're so worried he's going to opt into next year. The start of the season, I was thinking Houston should do Ahmed Thompson and Van Vliet and let's go all in and try.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
that I had him this high, but the guy plays 42 minutes a game, has crazy stats, and he's indispensable on a top five team, and he's on a good contract. So I had to put him there. Daniels, we both love. Bain, Garland, Suggs. No arguments on any of those. This next group, it's three people. It's called, if you tell Shams, I'll deny it to the death, but I am absolutely unequivocally 100% listening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Number 35, Zion Williamson. Number 34, LaMelo Ball. And number 33, Bam Adebayo. And I think Bam would be the surprise in that one. But I'm just prepared for anything with Miami. I don't know what they do, whether they blow it up. Who knows? Like, is Miami hanging up if you're like, we're here to talk about Bam? I just don't think they are. I think everyone on their team's available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Listen, I'm sorry. I could also put him in the next group. Just put him in another group. He shouldn't be in that group with those two guys. Okay. I'm going to move him down just, just to keep you happy. So it's so disrespectful. Same ranking, same ranking number 33. That's fine. He's in the next group, which is called. Sorry, we're pot committed here. Okay. Zion and LaMelo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I would trade for Zion. I would totally talk myself into he's in the worst possible franchise with the worst trainers and a weird fan base and a bad city for him. If we just bring him here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That's what I'm saying. If you're talking yourself into, oh, if we could just get him, we can mold him. He's the kind of guy that gets GMs fired. Where you're like, no, no, we got to do this because once we get him and then three months later, he pulls a hamstring and he puts on 20 pounds and you're like, oh my God, I'm going to lose my job. Why did I do this? That's him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I was thinking it was more like the Chris Webber, Mitch Richman type of trade where you're like, oh, you're giving us Mitch Richman even though he's 33? Fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I mean, we'll talk about Ahmed Thompson later, but to think like that, that was maybe an argument at the beginning of the season versus where we are now, where it's like, ah, would Detroit give up Tobias Harris and Tim Hardaway? for Butler and that's it. I don't know. Tobias is playing pretty well. Like that's where we're at with this Butler thing, which is insane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But that could be Golden State right now when we're talking about Hail Mary, we have to do something, crazy moves. Saying fuck it and going after Zion, that qualifies. Because if you strike oil with it, it's an amazing trade. If all the good things from the trade happen, it's the best trade anyone could make this decade. And yet, it's probably way more likely all the other stuff would happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's one of the toughest trade assets in a long time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
LaMelo. That's another one where he's a get coaches and GMs fired guy. His destiny, I've made this joke many times, but his destiny might end up being an awesome basketball reference page and Twitter, TikTok, Snapchat, one minute clips of this guy was a problem and that might be it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But you watch him on certain nights and he just seems completely unstoppable and like he can make any shot and you could get seduced by it. If it was him versus Zion, at least I know he's probably a better bet to play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Right between LeBron and those other guys. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So the Pelicans call the Spurs and they say, we'll give you Zion for Castle. And the Spurs say, no way. The smart answer is no way. Okay. I think you're right. That's a good, see, this is why you're a great trade value conciliary. That's a good note. I'm like mad dog. That's a good job by you, Ryan. That's just a great job right there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, the good thing is you let slights like that, you just forget about them overnight. Don't think about them again. Yeah, like it never happened. We're going to take one more break and do the top 33. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.
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Whatever you're into, it makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of Prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them, if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime.
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Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. All right, 33 guys left. This is Group E. Sorry, we're pot committed here. Rosella demanded Bam be put in this group and get away from Zyada Lamella. So Bam thanks you. He's 33. Mikael Bridges, Kyrie Irving, Jalen Brown, who was in the teens, I think three months ago and I think has dropped and we can talk about that in a second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
We don't have to. I'm not comparing ourselves to him in that way. I'm just comparing like what it's like to work for somebody when you're really frustrated with them. He's way more frustrated, I think, than either of us have ever been with anyone we've worked with. Like, he's doing shit, but he's doing stuff that...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Franz Wagner, Kevin Durant, And then Sabonis. And there's a couple of the contracts here. Jalen Brown, four years left, 236. Kevin Durant, two years, 106. That's this year, next year. Sabonis, four for 186. A little pricey. But what do you think of that order? Adebayo, Bridges, Irving, Brown, Wagner, Durant, and then number 27, Sabonis. Is that the right group for Durant? It is. Nudge them up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think it is the age and team performance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't think the Pacers do it. It's too hard to find a guy who's like, I love being Indiana's signature guy. I think it would take a lot for them to trade him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Listen, I'm a second chance guy. I'm a third chance guy. And I'm even a fourth chance guy. Um, Kyrie, not one of my, not one of my favorites for a long time. And, uh, He really won me over the last couple of years. Fine. He's a late bloomer, but I don't know. I think this is the right area for him because if he's your second best player, you can make the NBA finals. We saw that in June.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Coherent press conferences. Hasn't done really anything goofy in about a year and a half, two years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Two-year anniversary? That would have been a good anniversary for you as Penn to celebrate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think they'd have to, well, that's why I had Durant 28 and Brown 30, because I think if you're Boston and you have the chance to get out of the last two years of Jalen's contract and replace them with somebody that would keep you as competitive as you are right now, you'd at least have to have meetings about it. If you're Phoenix, why am I doing that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He's doing stuff that, you know, that's that's just seems like he's trying to sabotage everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'm already all the way in with this KD Booker thing. I can't really deviate from that at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Four years for two 36 in the last two years in the sixties, when we're in a second apron league now, it's just, it's, it's really hard to pay your second best player that contract. I think that's why he has to be dinked. It's not totally his fault.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Five years. I mean, it was like 280, 285, something like that. Now we're four years left at 236. So it's just a crazy number.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, he's 49.2 this year, 53, 57, 61, 64 in the 28-29 season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think he needs to unjack by about seven pounds of muscle after seeing him in person for two days. I was alarmed by how jacked he was. He looked like he should be with Jesse Ventura and Schwarzenegger and Carl Weathers in the Predator movie. That's how jacked he was. I just don't think that's... Didn't hurt Kevin Willis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And a tan. Oh, you don't have a potbelly and you're tan. You can play right now. Group D. Seven guys. Budding franchise guys. Tyrese Maxey, 26. Halliburton. Gulp, Carl Anthony Towns, number 24, John Morant, Brandon Miller, Brandon Miller, Jalen Johnson, and Chet Holmgren, who would have been higher, but he's had two major injuries already and he's like 22. And I had to ding him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Healthy Chet Holmgren, I think would be higher. Anyone on that list jump out to you in the wrong way or the right way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The contract for Towns, 49.2, 53.1, 57, 61. Those last two get a little hairy. But he's been awesome. And there's no way he's not a top 30 trade asset. Where he is exactly, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, that was the one. Is Ja too high on this list? And should he be backwards? Just because Ja doesn't play a lot. And it's like these one-off, then he plays two, then he's off one, then he's off three, then he's playing three more. It just seems like he's not available a lot. And it makes me nervous if that's my franchise guy. Because it's true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
When Tatum doesn't play, I'm like, what happened to Tatum? He's not playing? I just assume he's going to play every game. With Ja, it's like, whoa, Ja played a month in a row?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But they've been 19 games that he missed that have been spread out. They're sprinkled out. Like two, three, one, four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Don't forget to include that part.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If Memphis called Philly and said, we'll trade you Ja Morant for Tyrese Maxey straight up right now, I don't think Philly does it, which tells me I probably should add job behind Tyrese Maxey.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So maybe it's Halliburton 26, Ja 25, Maxie 24, Towns 23. I think that's the order. I think Maxie is a little more of a hang-up than Ja is for Memphis just because of the lack of availability and some of the stuff that's happened. Are you okay with Brandon Miller at 22?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And Jalen Johnson, 21, you're good with. Yeah, I love Jalen Johnson. Yeah, me too. Okay. Next group. Three guys. Group C. Only if they made us do it. Number 19, De'Aaron Fox. Number 18, Steph Curry. Number 17, Devin Booker. You heard me correctly. Steph Curry number eight is 18. Here's the case. I think you and I are probably among the two biggest Steph Curry fans in the media.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Three years, 178 million is the number. He's 36. And if he's the best player in a pretty average team... In the old days, that meant the team would have been good to maybe really good. Now it means pretty average. That's what we've seen. I just think he's, I don't think he's at a completely different point in his career, but he's at a slightly different point in his career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
This version of Steph Curry right now would not have won the 2022 finals. I think there's been a slight, slight, slight aging with him. But I also don't think they would ever trade him unless he went into the office and said, you guys have to trade me. It's time. So it's a tough one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. The passive aggressive trade request. Our roster is not good enough. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You have like five big men on your roster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I only think that only thing that would make sense to me would be Charlotte. if he wanted to finish his career there. But that's just, you're punting on everything. And I do think some people feel like relationships are really important and that they would rather spend the rest of their career understanding the impact of, I was on the same team that drafted me. We won titles together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I ended up retiring with some of the people I played with. I think he cares about that. So it's stupid to even have him on a list like this. Booker was an interesting one because... I have him 17th. I don't have him in either of the top two groups. You could make a case that he should be, but I just haven't liked that. That team seems super disjointed and unhappy for three straight years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And he's the best guy on it. And at some point it, you know, he's 28. Uh, I just couldn't get there, but I'm also willing to be talked into nudging him up if you think we should.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, let's go through it. Group B, we can go through each guy, and you tell me if any of them would trade this guy for Devin Booker. So I'll move Booker up to Group B. So he's 17. Number 16, Jalen Williams. I think they would rather have Williams on the contract he's on younger. His age is timed to SGA and Chet and some of the draft picks they have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I just think they would rather have Jalen Williams and Booker. As weird as that sounds from a basketball standpoint. It's also a team that doesn't really make trades ever. So you're good with that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Right? Jay Williams doing, you know, between him and Dort, that's part, I think, what makes their defense so special is everybody on that team can switch in all these good ways. There's high-end defenders. Like, SJ is probably the worst defender out of their crunch time guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That's why it's so unfun to talk about OKC trades because it was like, I like all these guys that wouldn't trade. Like, oh, we got to improve the Wiggins spot. Do you? I'd rather like see what I have with the Wiggins. And all these guys like playing with each other, which you got to value. It's really hard to make a trade if you have chemistry like they have. I wouldn't touch it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's a really fun basketball trade. Thompson for Booker. I'd be terrified to trade Thompson at this point. I just couldn't do it. Just from what we've seen in the last five weeks, to me, it's an automatic hang up. I just can't do it. I don't know what's there. The ceiling is opening up and there's real Kawhi potential now. There's Pippen potential now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
There's potential for all-time guys when you watch him. This is beyond just, oh man, that guy's really good. We're at another level of it now. And everyone can see it. You could see it last night with the Celtics game. He was the best guy in the game. He's in a game with Brooks hits 10 threes, Tatum's in the game, Jalen Brown's in the game, and Thompson was the most impactful guy in the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But how many years was Kawhi in college? At least three, right? Yeah. Yeah, so Thompson's at the stage right now where basically Kawhi was a rookie in the Spurs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You know, I'm going to, I'll move him to 16. I'll move Thompson to 17 and I'll move Jalen Williams to 15. My only fear with Thompson is this was, it's like, remember that five weeks when I'm, when Thompson was like, looked like the greatest prospect of any swing man in 10 years. And then, and then he shot 9% from three in March. So I'm just going to be careful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I don't want to put too much pressure on him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, you think like in the old days, I want to go to Phoenix. All right. How are we? Exactly. They spent three weeks. Now it's like, yeah, you're not going to Phoenix. Guess what? We're not taking Bradley Beal. We're not. There's no scenario where we take them. Nobody else is taking them. And on top of the Bradley Beal is a no trade clause. So Phoenix is out. Stop saying you want to go there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, it's fair. 14, Cade Cunningham. Congrats, by the way. I know you've been accepting kudos and plaudits for the last couple months. You never gave up. you were, I think, driving the Cade bandwagon. It's been really special this year. And his team's not good. They have some fun role players. They have some fun veterans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But the amount of responsibility he has game to game, this is the argument with LaMelo Ball. The LaMelo Ball defenders would say, well, his team's not good. Well, Cade's team's not good either. And that team is going toe-to-toe night after night and has a chance to... be a pretty fun playing team. I like watching him and he's been really special. So he's number 14 for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think he's on an island somewhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
They should be an ABC sitcom where he has to live with Killian Hayes. It's just the two of them in some beach house in Aruba. Just ordering the staff around. It's like below deck to 2023 Pistons. Monty Williams and Killian Hayes. Evan Mobley, number 13. Big win for me. You had your victory lap with Cade Cunningham. Huge victory lap for me with Evan Mobley. I never gave up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I kind of gave up a little bit. And then Jaron Jackson, number 12.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'd rather have the size than the guard. If I have somebody who can anchor a championship defense, I'm just picking that. If all things are equal. Like we've seen, there's games when Mobley hasn't played where the Cavs look just completely different. You know? And I don't know. I'm really impressed. But Jackson, who you mentioned earlier, that's been the stunner for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You know, and that's a big win for Chris Vernon, who was always like, you guys are always... shooting your wad about Mobley. What about Jaron Jackson, who has better numbers every year and has been in more playoff games? Jaron Jackson's been awesome, and there's a fuck you to him this year that I really like. He had that Wembley game this year where he's like, fuck this guy. I don't like this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'm going to go at him. He's had a few of those this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Our guy, we're not dead with Scoot. Science of life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Anyway, Moby 13, Jaron Jackson 12. I think that's the right order.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, he's had an awesome year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, I ended up voting for Durant, but I stared at it. I did Wemby, Jokic, and I looked at Durant and Jaron Jackson for like a half hour. And I really wanted to vote for Jaron Jackson. And I just was like, ah, it's the all-star game. It's KD, you know, he's the vet. And I just, it's not his fault that his team is run in the worst possible way, but I really wanted to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think it's at the spite point where they just send them. This last thing that happened this week, now it just seems like they don't even care. They just want to get him out of there and try to move on. I think it's gotten that bad. I don't know why they want another team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I think I actually wish I had done it. I think you made the right call.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I wish you had texted me because you could have talked me into it in like 20 seconds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. The LeBron on off court numbers, when we had to do the vote, it was just, there's no way you could vote for him. He was like a minus, minus eight, something like that. Um, I think it's, I think it's a little, well, I did it this morning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, it's, it's, it's gotten better cause they're playing better. Um, when we, when we had to do the vote though, it wasn't great. So Jaron Jackson's played 45 of 47 games for the Grizzlies, which is awesome. Um, And he's having his best season all the way. He's 23-6. He's easily their most indispensable player, and they're really good. So kudos to him. I have Davis 11.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You saw the last couple games. He really big-boyed Boston. The game last night. If he's playing the right shitty team, you really do feel like he could be a 40-20 guy. He's been really good. A week ago, I was wondering if they should trade him to Golden State. Now Golden State's gone one way, and the Lakers feel like they have some momentum. The Finney-Smith thing really helped them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It feels like they finally have enough guys to at least guard perimeter guys decently now. And they don't have to play connect as much. So Reeves can be like the one guy you can kind of hunt, but that's it. Vincent's playing better. And then LeBron's had a little more energy on defense. Just a little tiny bit. But I'm a little more hopeful for them than I was a week ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
A week ago, I was like, this team's done. They have no chance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And bullied them too. Right. They knocked them around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
They're at least a bitch in the round one. That's where they've at least taken this season. The Celtics had weird coaching in that game. There was a weird energy. They'd played the OT game the night before. The Warriors game was the one that really impressed me because I thought the Warriors needed the game. They wanted the game as national TV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Um, I wasn't sold on the Lakers at all, but I, I, they did the same thing they did to Boston on the Thursday. It was like, oh shit, this, this team's big. Davis is really engaged. LeBron seems like he, um, kind of starting to like the roster a little bit. And I really think Reeves who killed the Celtics, uh, has turned into a very fun offensive player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And Redick's not afraid to run shit through him and marginalize LeBron for a couple, you know, half a quarter in crunch time. Like if Reeves has the right matchup, they'll go to him, they'll actually use him, which they weren't doing last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Well, especially transitions, the other thing. His transition stuff is still great. You know, like his ability to read at half court. Oh, there's only two guys there. I'm just going to go through them and I'm bigger than them and I'm going to get a layup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He still has all the stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The Lakers have been up and down, but they're in a nice little spot right now. So this Untouchables group, Group B, Davis 11, Jalen Brunson 10, Donovan Mitchell 9. And Mitchell's had, I just love the year he's had. And they're not playing huge minutes. He's really deferred and just seems like he's been an awesome teammate this year. And I think he's the biggest reason they're winning. Last group.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
So this is a big argument coming out of the gate. This last group, completely and utterly untouchable. And I had Paolo number eight. And I struggled with that more than I think any other name in the list, whether he should be in this final group or be in the group that we just went through.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And I couldn't shake those first couple games before he got hurt this season, how young he is and how I just wouldn't trade him. I just wouldn't be able to do it. To me, he's a completely, utterly untouchable, but is he too high?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I wouldn't say he's 100%. I'll worry about that in March.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'd have him behind him. Me too. Well, Anthony Edwards is our number seven. Taking some shit this year. A little bit of a backlash season. You knew it was coming. You knew the backlash season was happening. It was going to start with the Olympics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
It's part of the process. How do you handle adversity? How do you handle annoying media questions about adversity? How do you handle tough losses? We're fine. Tatum, number six. Giannis, number five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Tatum's... What'd he turn? 20... Tatum's 26? So Giannis is two years older than him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
No, I didn't think that at all. I thought Giannis was 28.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And like taking, pushing the Detroit's aside and teams that are like, oh, it'd be fun if they got Jimmy Butler. Golden State's the only team that's actually desperate. Golden State is at an actual crossroads as a franchise, as an organization for the decade. You know, they're just not good enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Two things. Responsibility. It's among the toughest in the league what he does every night. Durability. It's surprising when he doesn't play. And when you saw, and I saw those back-to-back L.A. games in person. both teams' strategy was just beat the shit out of Tatum. Make him work. Don't let him get to his, if he's going to get to his spot, make him have to shove his way there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Always have a guy behind him. Always chip him. Like he's almost treated like the Pats treated Marshall Falk in that Super Bowl. Everybody's, every smart team's game plan is push him, nudge him, shove him, just make it hard for him for four quarters. Or like Ben Coates in the end zone. Or my guy Ben Coates getting tackled by four dolphins at the same time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Um, but he just keeps coming back and that if there's a one disappointing thing with me, with him, it's just like when you play like the Clippers backups, that's the kind of game this year where SGA is like, I'm going to have 55. Don't worry. Everybody can take the night off. Tatum's missing that one kind of, uh, look out. I'm scorched earth tonight. but that's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
That if you're going to nitpick, that's really the only nitpick where it's like, ah, tonight's the night where Tatum just scores 47 and we kill whoever we're playing. He's just not that kind of player, but I think it's okay. He gets everybody involved. Um, and this is the best he's ever played. We agree. I can't put him ahead of Luka Doncic at four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like Luke has never been number one in the rankings and it probably might not ever happen because of the durability thing with him. Whereas like Shea is number three. I have Jokic too. And then for the first time, a new number one. We've only had, I think, 10, 11, 12 number ones ever. Victor Onoyama. Oh. Yeah, not Pritchard. Wemby, number one, I think he has to be. It's great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Jokic is having one of the great offensive seasons in the history of the league and is the best teammate since Bird of Magic and Curry. And if you want to win a title, he'd be the first pick. But I don't know, from a trade asset standpoint, the Spurs aren't even like, They're not... You're saying the word, hey, would you ever trade Vic? And they're hanging up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And the stat that they're one in 20 heading into the fourth quarter when they're not winning, to me, that's like, we got to go one way or the other, guys. Are we going to try to get better and do some sort of crazy all in trade? Or are we going to start going the other way and start trading off people and just tanking this season and throwing it away? And do we go that way?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're just getting the V and the I out. It's a hang up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
You're like, what? Oh, they call you back. So are you good with that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Would you put the finals MVP above or below resurrecting Westbrook's career as the greatest feat of his career? If you had to rank them one, two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He gives them durability minutes and stats. They needed all three, but right. I think Danny chat wrote a great piece for the ringer about this last week. It's the most unlikely connection of any two players we've had in a while. And I, For me, like, you know, as an obvious giant Jokic fan, this is, like, the stuff that made Bird and Magic so special. They could resuscitate guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Like, Magic did this with Bob McAdoo. You know, Bird did this with Walton in 86. And even, like, bit players like Seechding and whoever. Gerald Henderson. Yeah. But the fact that Jokic took Westbrook, who not only was not an asset, but this might've been the only team in the league that would have signed him. And somebody were like, Oh my God, how's this going to work? Holy shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But right now they're in some middle ground. And that's where like, you know, if you and I are in the Warriors office with the Lake Oaks and the GM and they're like, what do you guys think? At some point, I'd be like, look, man, I think when Jimmy gets traded, he's going to be really good. I think he's going to be possessed and you might get an awesome year out of him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then turns him and they have this like real ESP thing now. And Jokic loves them. I think that's, I think that's such like a feather in his cap, just historically that he can, he can basically play with any player in the league and make them better, which is like the highest level of basketball you can reach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
his point of view on that he was disrespected marginalized and not used correctly and then blamed for everything and thrown into every single trade rumor possible so yeah he wasn't a huge fan
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And then it turned out Westbrook was one of the better cutters in the league. Like, who knew? I've been watching him since 2008. And all of a sudden, he's like this supernatural first-step cut, almost like a wide receiver coming off the line of scrimmage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And this is the only way you could flip your destiny as a franchise. You might be able to get this guy for 12 cents on the dollar. And in a playoff series, nobody's going to want to see him. Do you two years from now? Do you care two years from now? You're going nowhere anyway. So that's the one team I think I could see. And there's trades. They have a bunch of contracts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And will teams get used to it after two weeks of games where they're like, oh, all right, game four. Now I understand what they're doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I can't believe we just spent three minutes talking about Russell Westbrook, but it was totally worth it because it speaks to Jokic. Like the fact that, um, look at what we did today. I said, Trey young was too low. I took Harden's side and something. I was incredibly, incredibly concerned about that Denver team. And now I think they're fine. And they'll be there in the end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
We'll see if they can get a buyout guy or just one other piece. Maybe they can dump Zeke Nagy and have some trade flexibility. Anyway, Group A. Paolo, number eight. Anthony Edwards. Giannis, six. Tatum, five. Doncic. SGA. Jokic. in our new number one, Victor Wimbinyama, who probably at some point this season is going to have like a 40-20-12 block game with like seven assists.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
He'll have some box score that we've never seen before, but we've seen 30 Jokic box scores I think I've never seen before this year. All right, that was fun. This is going to go up on TheRinger.com later in the week, the official list. Mike Consigliere, Rosillo, thank you so much for doing this. You have two more podcasts this week for you, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Loaded? Loaded. Loaded. Okay. Great to see you, Russell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti as always. I will be back with another podcast on Thursday. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can watch the new rewatchables we did before sunrise. That is on the Ring of Movies YouTube channel. And I'll see you on Thursday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Wiggins would have to be in it, but that's the only one I see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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Call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline is here, by the way.
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The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The bigger question is that just gone now based on how this year has gone? Like, hey, his agent's Bernie Lee, who's a very nice guy. Hey, Bernie, Jimmy's in every two years contract at this point. That's just the way it is. There's nobody in the league that's going to go for for him based on the behavior. That's that's what he's forfeited on the bright side.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
If he's still really good every two years, he'll get an awesome contract. I think he's in that James Harden kind of zone now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
The only reason you do it is because you love Curry. You feel like you owe it to him to at least be competitive for a couple rounds. And this is a way to honor that. That's it. You're not beating, you're not winning four straight playoff rounds with or without Jimmy Butler. I don't think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
I'm so glad you brought this up. Riley's old. He's acting erratically, which makes sense because he's like 80. 80-year-olds are erratic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I almost feel like he's coasting until the trade, and when he gets traded to wherever, he's going to unleash holy hell. That's why the Detroit... option is so fascinating to me for him because that's a, that's a team that would actually need him. That's a team that just wants to be good, relevant in some way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
We did Before Sunrise, 30th anniversary of a movie that I love very much. Me, Chris Ryan, Sean, Fantasy. You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Rosillo came on. We started taping this late morning on Tuesday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo
And that's a team that has a really, really good player, you know, and they bring some things to the table. They're pretty well coached. Um, he raises their ceiling in a way that I think is intriguing. They're not going to win the title with them. And I think that's why whoever is trading for him is not a team that he can win the title with. And I think that's another reality of this.
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Yeah. Wait, we got to talk before we did. You really came on to talk to Bachelor, but we just did 15 minutes on NBA. Juju, though, going down last night was such just an all time, all time. Oh, no. I was so bummed out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
We're going to talk big picture about March Madness, what we have coming, things we've noticed, favorite things. Then I asked Anthony DeBundo to come on and talk about his five favorite MLB bets heading into a new season. And then last but not least, our old friend Callie Curry is going to come on to talk about the Bachelor franchise. which is in complete disarray. What's going to happen to it?
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it was just a gut punch. Cause now she misses next year too. And it's just, that's like a, at least a 15 month injury. Um, I just couldn't believe it. And at the same time, like I would always, I would watch her and she was so violent with how she played, like the torch she put on her legs. And you know, this, the, the, just like the ACL stuff with female athletes is so scary to begin with.
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Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So I can't say I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe it. But it was, she seemed like she was superhuman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. It felt like there was going to be a moment with that UConn USC play game. If she was playing, we're going to have an answer for like, all right, how much of this was Caitlin and how much of this is just where we are now? Cause like, there was no way I was missing that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Some of them are, you don't know if you actually did it. And then other ones where you're just like an excruciating pain. And that was unfortunately the one for that.
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Great news though. I'll go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just thought the way she played was a one-on-one. I've never seen any female basketball player play like that. The side-to-side stuff she could do going full speed, there was nobody like her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Who do you have winning the tournament now? Just out of curiosity.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
But I think... By the way, I didn't either because her usage rate was too high. You can stop that over the course of a tournament.
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So yeah, college basketball, baseball, The Bachelor. You're not getting this anywhere else. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Callie Curry is here. You can hear her on the Ringer Reality TV podcast. I haven't talked to you since you've lived in Charlotte for the year. Yeah.
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I'd go UCLA. You have UCLA? I think I'd pick UCLA now. I like their team. And I like that they have real size. Real size.
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I'm looking at the odds right now just so we know what they are. National champion, UConn's plus 155. Yeah, UCLA is 7-1. I like that as like a long shot bet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I actually, we always have it on because it's one of those shows you can kind of throw on as you're doing something else. So I did catch most of it. It just feels like a, I wouldn't even say a broken franchise. It's an expired franchise. I think this is a 20 year structure of a show that is now no longer surprising or that interesting. And I don't think they know what to do anymore.
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Not as excited for that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, it seems almost like you're doing a sociological experiment at this point. I don't get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's a great point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Right. Well, I think this is why we have a 7% success rate with the couples that come out of the show. Would be one of the reasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Interesting, because they probably spend way more time just chilling and hanging.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It's been interesting to watch the franchise evolve over the... Or not evolve... Over the 20 years. Because like Survivor was in some of the same boat where it's like they have this game. Here's the premise. And then people are like, okay, I'm kind of used to this. And then they would tweak certain things and do the tribes differently. And they were always trying to innovate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You can't really innovate with The Bachelor. And I think... And you think like how many shows have passed it from around, like even Temptation Island on Netflix. Did you watch that? My wife dove in. I watched it too. And she thought it was good. And I might have seen a couple episodes myself, but it was just, it's like a smarter version of the same kind of idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And it just, The Bachelor feels like it's out of like the 1980s at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah. No, no question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
But, you know, it hasn't been a great season, but what would have been your Charlotte NBA impressions?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So you wouldn't try to blow it up and try to actually change the show in some way. Because we should mention the biggest thing that's changed is in the last seven, eight years with all these reality shows, it used to be one of those things where they're like, it would be awesome if somebody just got drunk and then got mad at somebody else and they just started screaming at each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And the producers are now really scared of that. Yeah, it really hurt the challenge. I mean, the challenge is ruined now. It's like a sporting event now. It's not even a reality show. But it was more fun to watch train wreck TV like that. Like think about Bad Girls Club 15 years ago. I watched that too. The most insane show of all time. And now they're kind of afraid to go there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And these streamer shows have kind of figured out that middle ground of these people are still crazy, but we're not crossing lines here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I mean, that might be one of the changes we need to put in. Part of what The Bachelor used to do is they would have those people there until six in the morning. And they would have all the girls just drinking champagne, not eating. And they would kind of wait till two, three in the morning when they started getting crazy and sloppy. That was part of the blueprint.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You can't do that anymore, obviously. So I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Because people are still turning out. Yeah. The people in my house and it's terrible and we're still... There's a safety to it. Where it's like, I know what this is. I don't really have to pay attention. Oh, we're going to get to the thing now where it's the two women who hate each other. And we're going to have to go on a date with the three of them. And one person can get voted off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Like, I know all the beats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I saw a bunch of it. Yeah. I mean, I saw that. I didn't see the last hour, but it was on in the house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I thought the other one was going to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
No, the family visit was when you could see his wheels turning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
My rule with the bachelor is always like, who's the one he's going to most want to have sex with? That's who usually wins. Well, I can see him wanting to have sex with Juliana. Juliana was like, whatever, you could just see. He had a little extra hop on the step.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
She's a Massachusetts girl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, that's the other thing. Easy is another one. I don't mean easy in the derogatory way. I mean easy, like easy to hang out with. Those are the ones that always make the final two because it's the one way The Bachelor mirrors real life. Like, Yeah. That is what you want. People who are easier to hang out with is usually who you want, like your son to marry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It was like, hey, how about no drama whatsoever? How about the stable, awesome person?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Right. Be a buddy. Not like the runner up. I don't know. There was some I thought it was interesting how she her personality flipped the moment she became clear. There was this new side of her that I guess she was
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It was like she became a different person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah. I think the fundamental flaw with this show... is that the people watch it after the season. And if you're going to end up together and you're going to pick somebody, and then you watch them on the dates with the other people, and you watch those conversations, and you watch him tell somebody, I love you, or whatever they say. I don't know how you bounce back from that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Sadly for me, my daughter is now at the age where I'm like, my worst case scenario for... One of the many for me with her would be if she went on one of these shows. And I just can't imagine watching somebody you care about on one of these shows like, oh, my God, like this guy was just making out with this other person in a hot tub.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, he was getting around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
First of all, thank you for asking. Um, I've discussed this with my, with my, um, with my wife and it would definitely be the good cop, bad cop thing where my wife would be the one who's like, Oh, she seems great. And then they'd show me in the camera, kind of side-eyed the guy. And then I would definitely pull them out to the deck and for the talk. And I would, I would be abs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And by the way, the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit the ringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, Boston, we are coming to do a live sold out rewatchable show on Thursday and then the Coolidge Corner Film Festival.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I would make that guy absolutely miserable for 15 minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You don't think you'd even be on camera?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Doc likes the cameras.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So that's where you get Austin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
That's why Austin comes in. He plays the hard-driving interview family member role.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And that's it. Sometimes you just have the bad juju and then that's how it goes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, we're in hometowns right now. Here, come meet Austin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
That's, that's what, that would be my role. Well, the thing is, I think if, if you have no experience whatsoever with celebrity or, or being like, if you're just some random family in the middle of nowhere and your kid makes the final four and you're like, we're all going
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It's also interesting the way they meet the families is like the most, like nobody would do this anymore where it's like, meet my family. Here's 12 people sitting in a circle and we're going to have a really awkward conversation with four cameras filming us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So is Seth, he's officially in his like wise vet stage of his career. That's where we've landed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Like just taking young guys under his wing and telling them about the week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Oh, he got to that stage?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
The Charles Lee piece when he left the Celtics, just unanimous approval rating, right? And he went there and I told you that. I was like, everybody in Boston absolutely fucking loves this guy. And then it seems the same things happen in there and they're losing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Sounds like you need some advice from the sports are. I don't know if you want to bring them in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
The most obvious fix. And I don't know if they have any authority whatsoever. They probably don't. But the most obvious fix seems to be you have to stay somewhere for two years. And that's coaches and players. You just have to, that's the rule. And if you transfer after one year, maybe you have to sit out the next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Give me the Doc Scouting Report, my old podcast partner who ditched me, ditched ESPN, went back to coaching the Bucs. I've been studying his faces and just seeing like he seems pretty happy with the team, trying not to text him too much, but he seems okay with everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
But there has to be, it seems to me like a little more stability and it can't just be like, you know, it's 2K and you're just resetting the rosters every April. Because I don't think it's sustainable. I think it's going to be really hard for people to follow. And I still feel like they can get paid in the same way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Right. And that's what that was one of the reasons that made me think of it, because that the flip side of it is you can also kind of nudge people out faster, too. Right. So there's no stability in any direction. So I don't know. It feels like something like that. And like if Cooper flag goes to Duke. He can't just be like, next year I'm on St. John's. I've just changed my mind.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Now Rick Pitino has won me over. And maybe that would help a little bit. But I don't know. The horse might have left the barn on this one just in general. Sometimes with sports, things just get so wacky that you almost can't fix it. You just kind of have to hold on and... That's just kind of where you are. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Well, here's the thing, because it goes beyond just like, oh, this is weird. This guy was on this team. Now he's on this team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I think when you lose conferences, you lose the whole point of why we had conferences in the first place, which is to make it easier on people who are allegedly in college to play their sport and then also stay in college, which is why you had like the ACC, the way like it used to be back when Tate was a baby. Um, you know, everybody was kind of around each other, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And the Pac-12 or the Pac-10 back in the day, it was like everybody. So when you traveled somewhere, it wasn't like you're traveling cross country to play a conference game. I have, we have some friends out here, one of them who have college athletes and one of them runs at Berkeley. It's just cross country.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And they'll have these meets and they're like, yeah, we have to fly across country because we're playing some, you know, some school in the East Coast. And it's like, how is this a college experience? Like you're just on a plane back and forth for three straight months. So that's where like, if you had a real sports star, I think they would be looking at this like, look, this is really stupid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Like if you're going to have these mega conferences, at least make regions with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Well, that's the bigger thing. Football should be over here and the rest of college should be over here. Because now, with how big women's basketball is... You could argue men's and women's basketball kind of cancel each other out from like a scholarship thing. It's not there with the revenue yet, but it might be someday. The soccer is the same thing where the soccer on both rosters is the same.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And, but football is what screws it up and football having to match all those scholarships on the other end. And you end up with people who just wanted to run cross country on an airplane every week. Like that part makes no sense to me. I personally really miss football. The regional stuff, because those are my favorite rivalries. And I just can't, maybe I'm too old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I just can't make sense of some of these matchups now. But it started, this has been going on for a while. You know, this was, the Big East was the first one where it's like, wait, they're going to be there. And then the ACC, and they're going to be, and it's just, you know, it's a brain breaker. Maybe it's just gone. Tate, I don't know. Maybe this just never comes back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
What if nobody has a brain? That's the fear. It's like, what if there's not that one person?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Kyle, when you're growing up, Kentucky's biggest rivals other than Louisville were who?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So it's not really like a Clippers-Lakers thing. You could almost get too mad at them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So you miscode. Coach K. It's like a canker sore that you miss having in your mouth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
What was that? He did an ad recently that inflamed my... Yeah, whatever that was. I was like, oh, man, this fucking guy. Look at him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Duke, Coach K, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, it started with that fake Laker thing. That just was ridiculous from beginning to end. And then he's just kept it going. I think he saw Coach K void. He's like, how do I get the next generation of Tates to hate my guts?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
What are some things I can do? Should I just flip out at the Maui, whatever the Maui tournament's called and act like Jackass Shore?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So he's got the Hurley family. He's an ultimate bandwagon jumper. He can't resist.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
He just wouldn't leave. He wouldn't leave the Olympic team. He just had to grab on to more people and more legacies. LeBron, everybody. Let's do five favorites quick. So I don't know. I told you guys to come up with three each and maybe they'll overlap and we'll only do four. But five favorite things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
as we head forward to a weekend with a lot of really good teams playing each other and a lot of good players. And this is like an excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent NBA draft that's coming with some of these guys that is going to be really fun to talk about. Tate, what's your number one favorite thing heading into the next round?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
He was in that top five combo and now he seems like he's in that 9-0-11.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Maybe not the future number one pick. Oh. There's been... Yeah, Kyle knows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
There's been some, hmm, are we sure he's the number one pick stuff with him? Next year's draft is going to be, or two years from now, is going to be just as crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I do like the idea of an NBA owner who just seems like a smiling, nice guy, no evil side to him at all, just quietly funding the state's only relevant college in basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Kyle, does Igor fit the... where nobody kind of knows what he is, and then Sam Presti takes him with the ninth pick, and everybody's like, fuck. Is he one of those guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I'm going to choose to believe it's true. Very Thundery. I can't wait to mispronounce his name 19 different ways. So we're going with... That's everybody. Yegor? It's not Agor? Yegor. Okay, I'll get it. I'll get it by draft time. I'll be ready. Yeah, I'll do some practices. I'll be ready by the time we're ready for the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, I got the sense that it's been refreshing for him to be around pro, anti, no agenda pros, basically. Just people who do their job and all like each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
How is this even conceivable you could do this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Well, right now in Fando, they're plus 950 to win the East because unfortunately for them, they're in Duke's bracket. But they don't have to play Duke until the weekend if they can make it. Yep, Sunday. We'll see. All right, Kyle, what's your first one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, I... I only pre-peep when you give me the heads up, like with Queen, where you're like, can you do a deep dive on this guy? And then I'll do it. But I'm always like kind of waiting for somebody to trigger me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So he's on Maryland for the people listening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, so I did study him. He's one of the few guys I really deep dove because I was fascinated by him because he's such an anomaly for wherever. As you know, I treat college basketball like it's the feeder system, much like the real world used to be the feeder system for the challenge. There's nobody like him now. He doesn't seem like he can really rebound or defend the rim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
But then you watch how sophisticated his offensive game is, and honestly, it's a little Embiid-ish. I'm talking about last few years before he got hurt and Embiid-ish. The stuff he does facing the basket is really nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It just seems like if he's where he is now with some of that stuff, four years from now and he can start doing a little bit of the one-leg stuff or take it to the basket, jump hook, like... I don't know what he is. And I don't know if he's just going to end up being a good stats, bad team guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
But he's another one that you put on like that weird OKC team and just like, hey, this guy's going to come in and we're just going to run offense through him for seven minute stretches. Like, oh, shit, this guy. I am not positive he's a winning player at the next level because of the rebounded defense. What do you think, Tate?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
All of our favorite Boston heist movies that whole weekend. So you can check it out. The ringer.com slash events. Get tickets there. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables last night. We did Blue Chips. It was actually one we had kind of talked about before, eight years ago, before we had the category. So we brought it back for the NIL era.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
He's an interesting player prop guy. Because I could see him dropping like 35 in one of the games coming up. Absolutely. You could also see him, you know, had dropped nine and fell out in 19 minutes. But I like him. That was a good recommendation. He was definitely something. Like, I think the DL, even though his game's different, DL's a good comp because DL was like, what is this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So then you still have to go to Washington, like plays with Sar and Sar could be the shot blocker. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. The NBA feels like there are all these like weird, talented, flawed big man now that it's almost like this new era of the situational big man. The Klingons like this on Portland. Edie's definitely like this on Memphis. Luke Cornett's like this on the Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
These guys that make sense only in certain situations or matchups. And then you see them and they're good. And then they might not even play the next time. Tate, what's your next one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
He might actually die. Yeah, he might not make it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Tough bracket for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Kyle, what's your next one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah. Well, that's like your brother-in-law is the ultimate example of that, right? That's like every time somebody joins the Warriors, it just happened with Jimmy Butler. There was the big story about him talking about Steph. Like, I can't believe what an amazing teammate he is. And all he wants to do is win. And he's the first guy there and blah, blah, blah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Bronny's game is totally different than LeBron's.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I was thinking in The Bachelor, in the first couple episodes, somebody will make it, get the last rose that you can tell the person didn't want to pick, but the producers are like, you got to. Yeah, you got to keep them. You got to give the lady a rose because we need her for the next episode because she'll be really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I wish there were producer picks for March Madness where somebody could have done that with Rutgers. They'd be like, yeah, look, I know they didn't qualify, but we got to producers pick them. We're going to make them 15th seed. We needed those two guys in the tournament. Like, it's outrageous that they're not in there. Right there in the ringer draft, Ace is four and Dylan's two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And they're not, we didn't get to see them at all. It's frustrating, Tate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Captain's pick is great. We have no rules in college basketball anymore anyway. Couldn't they captain's pick somebody and just cram them in for the first four?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
What's your next one, Tate?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
But it's the recurring theme with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You know, phenomenal bench reactions from him too when he's not playing. I mean, some of the best, like really harkens back to Cobra Kai and Karate Kid 1. Like a couple of the guys on there coming forward. Can we be honest?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
No question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Duke's fascinating. Cause they're like a real basketball team. Oh yeah. I mean like, like a real one, like they can come in, you know, could they win eight games of the NBA? Like maybe, but they have a lot of different pieces, the seven foot two guy. So he popped up in our ringer draft guide, but he's had some moments where you go, wait, what's going on here? Like, this is not Hashim Thabit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Like he can move his feet. He can go side to side. He can guard guards from 20 feet away. I was impressed by him. And then, you know how I feel about Knipple. I just, he's going to go six spots too late. He'll go like 16 or 17. It's going to be annoying. I'm just telling you now, people are going to talk themselves out of him and he'll have like a 12 year career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Like there's no question that guy is going to be a good basketball player at the NBA. I'm positive. But he'll go six rounds late.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Oh, it's like one of those families? Yeah. You like those. You got to get in on those families.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I'm counting on Kelly Flagg, who's a massive, gigantic Celtics fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Kyle, turn the TikTok camera on. I'm counting on Kelly Flagg to stick to her guns. The Celtics, a team that she loves very, very much. We have never seen somebody come into the NBA draft and just play out their rookie contract. pass up that, oh, I better take that one. No, no, he loves the Celtics. Five years, just plays with whoever drafts him, jumps right to the Celtics by age 24.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah. That seems to be the fulfilling thing. I think that's why Steve Kerr is like, I'm never leaving as long as he's here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
We're waiting for him. We're going to have the cap space ready. We got a new owner. Come home. Come home, Cooper. You don't even have an NBA team yet. Come home to Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I'm going to the Celtics. Bird rights. The right move is to be Larry Bird. But like, seriously, if you love the team that much, what do you want to play for them? I always feel like, I don't know. I'm holding out hope. Tate, if you could have played Div 1 college basketball, you would have played at UNC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You would have gone like to NC State. You would have gone to UNC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
This has been Tate's case for Steph for the last 10 years. Steph's now 37 and still on Golden State. So I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Well, I wonder if Charlotte got flagged. It does kind of, you know, because they're already talking about the Warriors. It's a two, three year plan here with the Draymond, Steph, and Butler contracts. So who knows? Maybe age 40 Steph comes to play with Lomelo. I would buy season tickets that night. Yeah, Tate's moving back. You're moving back if that happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Were you worried about him a couple of months ago before they made that trade? Because as a longtime Steph fan and Steph watcher, he started to get that body language look of like the weight of world is on my shoulders and I'm too old to be able to carry this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
We're not turning on the TikTok camera for him, Kyle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
All right. I'm turning it back on. That sounds great. Maybe the two of them together. Finally. The four five combo. I love it. I'm with you on Duke, though, that it's been a while. I mean, we've had fun, different versions of teams, but it's a team that at least has a little bit of the Florida late 2000s or I guess mid 2000s feel where you're just like, man, all these guys are really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, you'd think that 2019 team, it was more a collection of assets than a team. Oh, it was horribly built. Wasn't a team that made sense as a basketball team. The Duke team, you watch, you're like, shit, all right, they need size. Let's play flag and the 7-2 guy together. Right. You know, they just seems like they have an answer for everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I'm disappointed Caleb Foster isn't playing more because I thought,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I know. He was such a good high school player though. I'm keeping my stock with him, Kyle. What do you got for the next one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, that was ugly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
He's a scratch handicap in golf now. Do you realize how good Tate is at golf? There's this whole Tate golf thing happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Nephew Kyle's dad was like, just like, we played golf with Tate today. What in the hell? Couldn't believe how good Tate was. Maybe we need to do like a golf series with you, Tate, where you just play golf with like famous NBA players and just shoot it with like cool cameras.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, you play golf and you pitch weird things to the players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
All right, we'll pitch it. What's your next one, Kyle?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Go on a Reddit board and slam somebody you don't like. It's 15 minutes. You can do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
This is my number one pet peeve in all sports now is this. I went to OKC Clipper Sunday night and it was an awesome game. It was so good. And it was super physical and athletic and really competitive. And then all of a sudden the refs are like, you know what would be cool? Let's just slow this down like four different times with long fucking reviews of nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And the funniest thing is they're reviewing some things, but then other things aren't reviewable, but are just as important to the game. So they go, I can't review that. I missed it when it happened. And we're not allowed to review that. But, but let me spend 10 minutes on this. I hate it. I just hate it. Nobody likes it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Why did we turn into a sport where they, we do stuff where nobody likes something and they're like, let's double down twice as much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, they got the, it's like the new guy buzz. Sometimes a TV show will have this when the new person joins a TV show and it's like, oh, good season of the show. New energy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah. I was I was way more glass half full on it because I really thought Jimmy still had his fastball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And was just kind of had it in his back pocket waiting for the right situation. But, you know, it's the dream on Jimmy piece was going to be the fun part. But it seems like they really clicked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
,,,,,,,,. P. P. P. P. P.實... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... a,�. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. Yeah, there's some positivity.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It's interesting, especially with some of the young guys they have. They voted the best farm system in baseball. Campbell's made the roster. He's going to play. They have Roman Anthony waiting. And it feels like they have some moves maybe to do in June, July, whether they wanted to trade for one more veteran or maybe even...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
you know, maybe, maybe you move Devers at that point and try to flip him for another big money dude that plays at a position. I don't know. They're way more interesting than they were. And then stories back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, we don't. The Dern thing, was it a one-year superstar fluke or is this just who he is now? There's a lot of good storylines with them. And, you know, the fact that the Yankees, it looks like Arrow pointed down and then Baltimore, who I can't believe they have worse odds to win the division in Boston. It seemed like Baltimore was going to be a juggernaut for the rest of the decade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
The other case with that over-under with the Red Sox is they really lost the narrative in Boston the last few years. And the Celtics just leapfrogged them in the biggest possible way. And there's still the huge hockey fan base. Then Drake May shows up for the Pats. And
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I just felt like it was heading the wrong direction and maybe this is their chance to, oh, you don't think we're still the Red Sox? And then they blow it up. All right, what's your next thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
When they traded for Crochet, I got excited. I did because I was just like, really, they don't give a shit about this team anymore and trying to make it better. And they did that. The Bregman thing almost felt like, I think it was an overpay considering what the production has been the last six years, but he's still a good right-handed hitter who might be awesome in Fenway. He's a pro.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I think he's been important for the leadership for them. So I get it. Did they overpay for him a little? Probably. Um, but it's, there's definitely a look, the lineup has more balance and it's going to be fun to see how they integrate the young guys. So yeah. Am I ready to jump back on the, on the watching it every day and watching what happens bandwagon? I am.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I felt that way. I went to the Clippers OKC game on Sunday. And now Kawhi's healthy and who knows how long that's going to last. But he looks really, really good. And I was sitting there going, this would be a crazy eight seed. This team, they have two like Hall of Fame scorers slash players. Zubats is a top six center.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I think I've officially licked my wounds from the Mookie bets trade. Cause the Luca trade made the Mookie bets trade seem like a walk in the park. Like it's hard to even get mad anymore. All right. What's it, what's your next bet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Well, I'm in that crazy AL keeper league with my friend Henshigan. And we had Ben Rice for $5 trying to decide, Oh, is this, he might actually get a badge. Should we, let's, let's at least do the process and look at them. And it's like, he's starting against righties for the Yankees. The guy hit like one 80 last year. So that, that was the first time I was like, Oh man,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
This, uh, where, where's this going? Like Marcus Stroman's actually gonna, gonna start for them and, and they're trying to get like 180 innings at him. I don't know. It seems like they're, it seems like a transition year potentially. And I gotta be honest, nothing would make me happier because I get to torture Jacko and JJ and, uh, and the other Yankees fans of my life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
He's not happy. He's not happy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It reminds me a little of... Remember the Cowboys... April, May, June, when all of us were like, wow, that over-under is way too high. I don't think they're going to be very good. And then they actually had to move the over-under down. And then we got toward the season and people tried to start talking themselves back into them. And it's like, I don't know, man. I'm not seeing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And then they weren't good. It feels a little like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. You can check that out. You can also check out the Prestige TV podcast, White Lotus, Episode 6. We broke that down as well. Speaking of the Prestige TV pod, me and Sean Fantasy and Joanna Robinson on Wednesday did We're going to break down the first couple episodes of the studio, Seth Rogen's new Hollywood show, which we were all really intrigued by.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
They have role guys all over the place. They have Norm Powell, who's like instant offense. They have one of the best coaching staffs and they have, they actually have a home court advantage finally, which is the craziest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
That sounds great. I love how we started this. All right. You have three more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
They're the good team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Would you think plus 350 for the A's to win 80 plus games on FanDuel? Does that intrigue you at all?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
The whole thing where they drop their first name is almost unparalleled. I can't remember anything remotely like that before. Even when you look at them on the different betting odds. Yeah, it just says athletics. Yeah, you're right. It's like Washington football team. Which they should have kept. It was pretty funny. Yeah. All right. What's your next one? I like all three of these so far.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
First round buy betting? Wow. You're waiting six months to find out if you got a buy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I'm doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Do the Dodgers, to win a record 117-plus regular season games at plus 630, intrigue you at all? That's a lot of wins, man. You only have to have 45 losses.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
What happened?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And I got to say, the Dodger fans... I've always liked them. Always gotten along with them. I always thought they had a great fan base. A little cocky lately. I'm not going to lie. A little cocky. I've had to, I was with the Dodger fan recently and I had to remind, he was talking about two World Series this decade. I was like, that first one doesn't count. Nobody's counting that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
There's signs of life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It's a fake World Series. It's got seven asterisks next to it. And you won the one in 81. That was the strike season. Like you have two asterisk titles. Settle down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Signs of... It's like they were in the... What do they put? The hole where the coffin goes? They were in there and the dirt was starting. And then all of a sudden, Katie was like, Hey!
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Another who knows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Oh, he's throwing one on one. I mean, you never heard of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Plus 135 to win the NL on FanDuel. And it feels suspicious to me. I thought it was going to be a minus odds. And it was like plus 135. Hmm. What do they know? And then in the American League, the Red Sox have the third best odds right now. They're eight to one. So people have, I think, been banging them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You made me think of something before we get to your last bet. So House always does, he calls it the Mahomes layaway playing MVP bet. Or just bet it every year and it's going to hit some years. And same thing with the, Sal does it with the Chiefs. Like just bet the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl every year. Just do it now. It's going to hit every other year, two out of every three years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
And just have these things you can bet on the NFL and know you're probably going to be in the mix. Is there anything like that with baseball this year? Or anything this decade other than the Dodgers? Is there anything else you'd even put? Any player, any home run total, anything?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
That's a good point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
That would be the only other one I could even think of if he just became Mr. Met this year and became the most popular player in the city, basically. That's the only thing I could think of. What's your last bet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, I still feel pretty good about...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Seeing them over the Clippers, but it's a good point. Like the fact that they're the nine seed is nuts because you think about like the seven, eight, nine teams in the East and it's a little bit of a drop off once you get past Detroit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So we got, I'm looking at, what do we have for a win total for them? Is it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Plus 148 for them to win 90 plus games?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Who's winning Champions League?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Barcelona. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Who's the Colts quarterback next year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Don't get too close to him on Richardson Island. You might get hit by a football that goes over somebody's head.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Can't they just have him work on just... Here's a 20-yard pass. There's that guy over there. Can't you just throw it to where the guy is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Yeah, a little bit better. I have a random Charlotte question. So Seth, your husband, is on a team that is like the way station stop on the schedule because they're not having a good season, right? You're on the East Coast trip. A couple of these teams are in the lottery. So when these teams come in, It's kind of like it's a no-win situation for the other team. They're supposed to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Stock is low. I like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Great. All right. Good to see you, Dibundo. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Tate and Kyle and Callie and Dibundo. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal for producing. As always, don't forget, you can watch clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And we're also doing it as VideoPods on Spotify every time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You just see it, watch it, throw it in your pocket. You don't have to watch it. Then you can watch it again, whatever you want to do. I'm not sure if I'm back on Thursday yet. We're going to play it by ear. But I will be in Boston on Thursday night for a live rewatchable show. And then we'll be in Coolidge Corner all weekend for the Coolidge Corner Boston Movie Heist Movie Film Festival.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
I think there might be a couple of tickets left available. You can check it out at theringer.com slash events. So see you later in the week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
You might rest a couple guys. And that's just kind of been the whole season. What's it like to just go to the games when you're rooting for the team that's kind of in that weird spot?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
What is it specifically?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So that is coming on Prestige as well. And don't forget about FanDuel Sportsbook, where player performance doubles every Tuesday, all the college basketball stuff. And then we have a bunch of A bunch of bets we're going to talk about, not just for college basketball, but for the MLB later. We have Tate Frazier and Kyle Mann coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Well, and then unfortunately, he just got hurt again. But you also had that weird... Charlotte had that weird trade where they made the trade. Have you ever seen a situation like that before?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Interesting. Go, let's hear it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Well, also these teams all... They get the preliminary medical stuff. So it's not like there's a ton of surprises. I genuinely think for some reason they got buyer's remorse and got scared and backed out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
So you were surprised when you heard about the trade. You're like, why are they trading him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
It hasn't happened in like, I don't know, 16 years. Then Connect comes back and he's like, hey, good to see you again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Right. Well, they really need him. Yeah, I went to the game. I went to the Bulls game Saturday night and they're just, it's so clear they're one big guy short. Like they're playing Rui at backup center and they, you know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
We'll talk about that later, but the one mistake you can make, I think, is when you're drafting this high. to take somebody just out of need. I have never seen that really work, right? Danny Kelly, how many drafts have you covered for us at this point? Has the, ah, this is too high, but we really need this guy. I just don't remember that ever really working.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
There's gonna be some podcast stuff on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel where you can find all the clips and episodes from this. I actually did a video about three of my favorite unforgettable things that I saw going to a game in the 21st century so far. So you can check that out on my YouTube channel. All right, coming up, we are just talking football today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Craig, who's your, I wouldn't be shocked if they went in the top four guy because mine is the tight end. I think Tyler Warren. Really? I think between four and nine, all of those guys are right around the same if you don't need Travis Hunter, which I don't know if the Pats do because they just spent on a quarterback.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
But I just feel like you could talk yourself into the running back or the tight end pretty easily. And you could talk yourself into Membo. And you could talk yourself into the edge rusher from Georgia.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Craig, who's your sleeper?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah, sometimes it worries me when there's only one really good guy at a position because by comparison to the other guys, you can almost overrate them, right? It's like, I don't know, going to a bar and there's one good-looking person in the bar and you're like, man, that guy's so handsome. And it's like, yeah, that girl is so incredible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah, that's the only part that worries me with that. I do wonder with the Penn State tight end, though, with everybody so...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
worried about offensive lines how can we block like that guy is an old school I can block I can catch and like even for the Pats if you just add him and it's like this would be Drake Mays number one move the chain guy this guy will help us with the block we'll figure out the left tackle but at least we have like I don't know if you take him at four but you could talk me into it all right I think that's a huge mistake
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I imported all three fantasy guys, Danny Kelly, Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck from our Ringer Fantasy Show and our Ringer Draft Show. More since the Ringer Draft Show right around now. All three of them are on and we're going to be breaking down our favorite things about free agency in March. I have some awards to hand out. There's a lot of draft subplots in it too. So stay tuned. Check it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Unless you thought this guy is awesome. That would be the thing. If you think he's... a top three guy at the position for the next 10 years, I think you have to think of it differently.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I wouldn't do it. I'm just prepared for anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I think you guys should do this with your podcast. Talk about it's like a generational fantasy football podcast. Right. I think when the word generational is used, people just pay attention more. DK, do you buy the whole gentees on par with Bijan and Saquon for running backs in like the last 12 years as like that caliber of prospect?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Well, for the Pats, I hope it's Carter or Hunter. And if it's not that, it's a trade down. We're going to take a break and we'll be back with the generational fantasy football guys from the ringer right after this. All right, we are going to rip through the first couple of days of free agency. I did a gimmick. It's a gimmick I used to do way back when. You guys have done it on your podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I didn't tell you what it was. trying to just blindside you, um, giving out awards, but the awards are all from the glory years of comedy as Craig Horlbeck has anointed the two thousands, right? This is the end. Just all of the movies from there. I'm just giving out awards. I wrote some down. Maybe you'll even come up with a couple as we're talking. Uh, the first award, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
is the Seth Rogen, Katherine Heigl knocked up award for we've known each other for a week. Let's do this. That goes to the Seattle Seahawks, Danny Kelly's favorite team. They traded Gino and they traded DK Metcalf for a third and a second. And then they said, we're all in. we're ignoring the last two weeks of the season. They didn't happen. Sam Darnold, three years, 110 million. Let's do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Let's get married. Uh, Danny Kelly, walk us. I know you did this on your pod yesterday, but walk, walk my audience through this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's the Mayfield contract, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Basically the same thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Certainly a new era. You're right on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're recording this. It's 11 PT. I have the ringer fantasy football guys here, Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Craig Kohlbeck. And there's only one domino left that would really affect this conversation. And of course, it's Aaron Rodgers, who maybe by the time you hear this, he'll have a team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Who wears a visor. A field tilter. Who's kind of in his prime. With an initial acronym as a first name.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Is there a possibility of Stephon Diggs coming off another injury, just being surly about Sam Darnold being his quarterback, but you're paying him $17 million a year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah, don't even listen to this part. Um, Danny, other Danny and Craig, um, I kind of like Gino Smith. I thought he was running for his life the last two years. They couldn't block for him at all. He was good at the end of games. He wasn't great, but he was good. And I get that he's 34 years old, but, um, I don't know. This just feels like moving chairs around on a boat that's sinking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
What was your take, Craig?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's like he's on the Jets again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
A little bit. Sorry, Danny. Danny, you can remove your ears now. Take your earmuffs off. Hyphus, what do you got?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
But he's the heavyweight champ now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
On paper, getting seven years younger, Getting a third round pick and seemingly going sideways at quarterback is a strategy that makes sense. But I thought, I just thought Gino was in a really hard situation last year. I was shocked to find out Gino was 34. I somehow didn't realize he was that old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And it sent me on a Geno deep dive that led me to the ESPN piece about when his teammate punched him in 2015. And I read like four stories about that. And I was like, how has this not been an untold episode yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I mean, for Vegas, he's got Bowers, who's got one of the best weapons in the league. I assume they'll probably have a couple signings coming, I would guess. He's going to be in some fun games. New scene, new scenario. I'm happy for him. I didn't really like what the Seahawks did. DK, I'm sorry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Next award. Normal. It's the Brick Tamlin killed the guy award. For the seemingly okay situation that got completely out of hand way too fast, and that would be the left tackle drought. This hit the point. Craig, you rooted for Dan Moore as your left tackle for years. My God. Was there ever a world in any game where you were like, this guy, I bet he's going to make $20 million a year next year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Because it happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
So we have him. We have Jalen Moore, who wasn't even a starter, to KC for two for 30. Yep. The Ravens re-signed Ronnie Stanley for $60 million, a guy I wanted for the Pats, and then I texted with Mallory, Ravens fan, and she's like, I didn't want us to keep him. He gets hurt all the time. Too many false starts. So congrats to them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
But he couldn't resist taking an extra two days to decide between two teams that don't really want him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Allard Johnson on the Rams for $3 for $58 actually seems like one of the best deals anyone got. And then Washington Trades... a second for Tunsell, which was shocking on paper. And then I think everyone kind of realized the Texans weren't exactly like the, uh, the hogs in the eighties.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Um, and now we have this draft coming where we'll Campbell and, and Membo and banks might all go five to six spots too high. Cause we still have what? Six, seven teams that still don't have a left tackle. Not to mention Trent Williams of the Niners who could retire like tomorrow and nobody would be surprised. And Armstead on Miami, like God only knows what happens to him year to year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
What about you? How are you feeling about your new 34-year-old tackle? He's not even a left tackle. He's a right tackle. We still don't have a left tackle. DK, what happened here? Why are we out of left tackles? Why is this such a drought?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, we're going to talk football in March. Why not? It's next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah. Who wants him less? If you guys had to pick between Danny wants him less. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Would you say it's the second most important position now behind quarterback because of how scarce it is? Would you put it over every other position?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Would you, Haifetz?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
This is why the Pats are going to take Bimbo. Craig, are you an Anchorman 1 fight guy or an Anchorman 2 fight guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Can you walk me through that? Why do you want Aaron Rodgers? Because he looked terrible last year and anytime he got pressured, the stats are like truly abysmal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I genuinely think they made Anchorman 2 as a movie that people wouldn't think was good for 15 years and would have this belated, you know, it's actually really awesome, Anchorman 2. I think we're right heading into the zone right now where it's going to come back and become a thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Still haven't done Anchorman on the rewatchables. Craig doesn't want to do it. Oh, here's one for you, Craig. The Dracula the Music Award for I Can't Believe This Actually Worked Out. It's Dracula the Musical. Yeah. There's no way that should have been a good scene. And it turns out to be one of the best, funniest scenes of the movie. The odds were like 200 to 1.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I feel like the Patriots free agency has worked out. I can't believe it. We had all this money to spend. We have a cheap owner. They were saying how free agency wasn't that good. I get it. We overspent a tiny bit on Milton Williams. I love Spillane. He was one of my favorite non-Patriots on Sunday Ticket every Sunday. The guy's just an absolute animal. Enjoyed Matt Collins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I do like locker room.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
We're trying to get locker room, guys. We're trying to win our locker room. But Jamal Williams on the Saints just got waved. Let's bring him in, too. Let's get locker room, guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Anyway, I'm genuinely excited for the Pats defense. Craig, talk me out of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Barmore coming back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Gonzalez and Davis. Wow, you can zag on this. Go ahead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Spillane's like an old school 2003 Pats guy. Like I could have totally seen him next to McGinnis and Vrabel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
DK, when do we get the text from Mina in June or July that she studied all the defenses and thinks the Pats can have the top five defense? June 20th? When is that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
We've been aligned for the entire 2020s with our two dumb franchises and just doing dumb shit and spending money on the wrong guys and picking the wrong players and just the overall sense of there's no plan at all. You're still in that. You're still mired in that hell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And maybe this won't work out, but I actually like that there seems to be a plan for the Patriots where they're like, let's build through the lines. Let's get culture guys. Let's get guys who, if you go to the Reddits of each team that lost the guy, like I went to the Raiders Reddit, 110 posts about Spillane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
People were like, oh man, I'm happy our guy got a bag, but it really bums me out. I was like, okay, this is great. The Harold Landry Titans Reddit wasn't awesome. That was the one where there might've been an overpay, but I also think that's Rabel's guy. But Typhids, do you at least feel like there's a plan here?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Heifetz, you're just shaking your head sadly. So Rodgers going to the Giants and just throwing Malik Nabors on a bad Giants team in the same stadium where he sucked last year just sounds absolutely miserable, even by Giants standards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Spillane is like the guy in the program who just was out of control. And then it turned out, but I'm not saying he did that, but it was just like, he's everywhere. And you're like, oh my God, this guy's a maniac. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Well, and then the Nats DC had him. Yes. So they, I mean, because he was on the Lions last year. That was one of the things that seems like they were grabbing a lot of dudes that they had a history with, which made me feel...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Even 2016, there's not really... Don't forget about trading back out of the Trent McDuffie spot and then taking Cole Strange right in front of Karloftis. The all-time double win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Craig, if they take Hunter four and say he's going to be our number one receiver, but we're also going to use him as a nickelback, is that one of the most exciting developments of the season? Because it would be for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Maybe he could just be awesome as a pro. Can you do a little more attractive of the musical before we move on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
All right. Next one. The Borat stays at an old Jewish couple's bed and breakfast award for. Oh, I have a bad feeling about this one. That goes to the Jets and Justin Fields. Two years, 40 million. We've all kind of glossed over this. And I got to say, I've heard some takes about he was doing well with the Steelers before they put in Russ. It's like, no, he wasn't. No, he wasn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Craig, you're a Steelers fan. You were watching those games. Did Justin Fields ever at any point make you feel like we've got our guy? No. Lock him down. Of course not. We watched those games. It was like the whole reason Russell Wilson got the job is because Fields wasn't quite good enough as the starter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Neil O'Donnell was another great one way back when. You left out one thing with your Jets blueprint. Which I agreed with. I thought you did a great job. Like around week six when it starts getting sad and they come back from commercial and it's like... Chiefs 34, Jets 3, and they're just showing a sad guy in the stands with a Fields jersey on. That's the last piece of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Because the Jets fans will buy in and they will buy the jersey. And then around week 6, week 8, it's sad. I just... I don't think he's a starting quarterback in the sense of you can actually win playoff games with him. DK, you agree with that, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah, and I think the fans will want him to succeed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's the Seth drinks too much and accidentally headbutts Emma Stone award. This goes to the Jaguars. I never understand what they do year after year, but this year they waived Christian Kirk so they could spend one year, 10 million on Deami Brown. And I just wanted to flag it. It's a seemingly small thing. Nobody's hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's an innocent kind of dopey free agency thing, but it just, to me, sums up the Jaguars. Like, just keep Christian Kirk and don't waive him and don't take the cap hit on him. Now you're taking a cap hit on him and you're paying Deami Brown who had... What, one good playoff game? I just, I don't think the Jaguars will ever get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And one of the reasons they'll never get it is because the owner's son who runs the team also runs AEW and writes all the scripts for it every week. And I just don't think they're on the ball is my take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
He was doing an AEW bit, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Danny Kelly, you don't have a dog in this race.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's been terrible the whole time. And somehow they almost beat the Patriots in a pivotal game in Foxborough. And we're leading in the second half with Blake Bortles. And that was like the one moment. I think for your show next year, I think Craig shows up for the combine with an old school Ray Allen Sonics jersey and tries to pick a fight with Jordan Schultz because his dad is the reason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
But you cover football for The Ringer and you're on our podcast. You must have some sort of opinion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's a good battle. I think it's good publicity for the show, and I just think it's a good game plan. Anything else on the Jags before we move on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
The Jags, they never disappoint. All right, this next award is from Bridesmaids. It's the Annie takes sedatives and has a drink on the airplane award for single worst game plan. That goes to the Cincinnati Bengals, who seem to be the only team that doesn't realize you should just pay your guys six months early instead of a year and a half too late.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And a lot of people have been talking about this this week, but they're just fucked because they haven't taken care of Chase. They franchise tag Higgins. He'll probably hold out. Hendrickson wants to trade. And then in the middle of this, they paid $8 million a year for Mike Gusecki, which is like, so you guys need to find money, but you're also going to pay this tight end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
This is the easiest position to find anybody for a million dollars. I don't understand what they're doing. I will say this, though. Trey Hendrickson last year was unblockable down the stretch. I know their defense sucked, but that guy was beast. And I don't understand any of this. Danny Kelly, can you explain one aspect of it or are they just cheap? Is it they're just cheap is the answer?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I'm vacuuming my house instead of working.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I'm really hoping for Joe Burrow to go NBA player on this whole thing. The best thing about the NFL is if Joe Burrow is represented by Clutch and just leaking passive-aggressive stuff out, they better take care of these guys or else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
But nobody takes that seriously in the NFL because it's such a facelift. He really needs to own it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah, that's terrible. Are you upset Kristen Wiig didn't make more comedies, correct? You know, there was like two more bridesmaids in her and just she didn't want it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Listen, wedding crashers is coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Oh, we have, this is happening. It's right, right now. Coincidentally, it's our next to word. It's the Melissa McCarthy. Look away, look away. Is that a word? Which has to go to the Saints. I don't think there's a more depressing team in the league than the Saints.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I tried to understand the Derek Carr thing where they're paying him more this year, but they also don't really want him as their quarterback. And it just seems like they're punting on this season. And they're like, well, from a million years ago when Sean Payton was here and we just kept pushing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Like, I don't really fully understand the NFL salary cap and all the machinations of it because it just seems like you can just keep shoving money forward and do what the Chiefs do and some other teams. But the rub of it is this Derek Carr situation where... you can't shove it anymore. And the guy stinks. And now it's like, and now you're in this Russell Wilson, Denver type of situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I would be so bummed out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Like the Sixers. They're just screwed with Paul George and Embiid now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's brutal. And they have the ninth pick. And if Sanders is there, I think they have to take them, right? When are they other, you know, unless they just don't, I just don't know what they do, but is there, Craig, is there a team you'd less want to be a fan of than the saints right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
They're number one, right? No. Even if your jets are giants, like giants, you can be like, Oh, we have Malik neighbors. Well, we're in New York. Well, we have a good defensive line. I don't know what the case is for the saints. No, it's bleak.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah. Well, I went to Saints Reddit just to see what the vibe was. It's grim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
They really don't like Derek Carr. They weren't doing backflips about Chase Young for three years for $57 million. I'll tell you that much. Yeah, what does that solve? Yeah, and they lost a few guys, and it's pretty grim. All right, next one. This is for Craig. It's the Step Brothers Catalina Wine Mixer Award for Single Funniest Concept.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And that goes to the Steelers if they sign Aaron Rodgers and have him throwing footballs to DK Metcalf and George Pickens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah, you should get Isaiah Stewart from the Pistons and just have him just suit up and just try to start fights. Heifetz, what's the worst idea paying a second round pick and $30 million a year to DK Metcalf, knowing that George Pickens is going to take this personally and immediately also want to get paid, or having Aaron Rodgers as your starting quarterback for those two guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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If you had to pick a worse idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Stop dating meat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Going on a darkness retreat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I think I was like one of the last three Pickens defenders. Craig's probably last. Craig's there. But when he... When they ended the game with the Browns Hail Mary on the Thursday night and instead of trying to catch a pass, he just decided to start a fight during the play. At that point, I was like, I think even I'm out on George Pickens because it's just insane behavior.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Oh, Sarah Marshall, we're back again. The Peter Brenner hooking up with Sarah Marshall Award for I'm happy for you, but are we sure this is a good idea? Yeah. Chris Godwin, three for 66. And everyone's saying, no, this is great. That's a great price. He took a discount. Did he? Did he take a discount? Because he had a torn ACL a couple of years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
He had like a really badly broken ankle last year. So now he has two major leg injuries. He's about to hit his 30s. And like I was I got to say, I was worried this was going to be like a Pat's overpay. I was worried they were going to give him like three for seventy five or something. I don't know if this guy's going to stay healthy. Why are we just penciling in Chris Godwin to be awesome again?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
People are saying he got a deal on it. Heifetz, you had that with Saquon, right? He came back from the ACL and it was an extra year before he looked like Saquon again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Craig, is that Sarah Marshall scene when they hook up again and then stop? Is that a top 20 aborted blowjob scene for you in movie history? Top 10? Where would you go? Single white females won? I have a giant folder under my bed. I'd have to go through that. Check that out. You can do it on Rewatchables on Monday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It's like that colonoscopy juice you drink when you're about to get the colonoscopy. Oh, yeah. It's a cleanse. The cleanse juice. The problem is we all watch football every week. Yeah, he's not Enigma, he's Enema. That's his follow-up documentary. That's the second documentary. He didn't want to get hit last year. It was obvious. And I just, I don't think he's a winning quarterback anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
The Mitch hooks up with a high school senior award for, Oh, this is an aging. Well, this goes to two aging guys, the Rams dumping aging Cooper cup. So they could overpay aging Devante Adams two for 46. I don't understand this either. Unless they just think Cooper cops, Cooper cups body is, is shot, which I would probably tend to believe them. Hype, what'd you think of this one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
So Adams is Jimmy Butler in that scenario?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I got to say, I was really I like Ty Fitz's football terminology during that little rant there. I think Devontae Adams. You've come a long way. It's good. You're talking X and Y, spacing. I was impressed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's Craig like two years from now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
He won't be on my fantasy team, Craig. Devontae Adams won't? I don't. It checks a couple boxes for me. Guy getting older. Guy didn't have as good of a season last year, as the stats say. Guy changing teams again, who's a receiver. That always makes me nervous. I don't like when receivers change in general.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, my wife vetoed it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I can't afford to get divorce hyphens. That's, that's really what it came down to. She's like, you're not playing again. This, this could be a real issue for us. And I was like, okay, good to know. Oh, let's go to, this is the end. Nice. The Michael Sarah. And this is the end of work for most hilarious cameo. It's going to go to somebody you're not expecting. Anthony Richardson. A two-year cameo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Like I honestly, I'd rather not, not trying to push Joe Milton on everyone. Cause I know it's in my best interest as a Pats fan, but I would much rather just roll the dice with a young guy and hope they were good versus running back last year's Aaron Rogers and saying, well, now he's a year more removed from his horrible Achilles injury. And maybe he'll be crisper this time. I just don't,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Passed through our life. Amazing combine. Got super excited. Went flying up the draft. Oh, my God. He's like Cam Newton with a... And I guess we're done now. Kind of like Michael Cera in that movie where he's just... Michael Cera's been murdered. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Danny Dives is standing over him holding a... So they signed Danny Dimes for one for 14 and the Colts are saying we want these guys to compete and in the words of James Babydoll Dixon, I wish them a lot of luck. That sounds like quite a competition. What are your thoughts, Craig?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Is Dimes qualified for your two years after the injury rule?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I almost this almost made me wonder, do they do this as a way to boost Anthony Richards confidence? Like if they think this could still be our guy, well, what do we do? Well, we'll bring in this guy to challenge him. But the guy hasn't been good in three years and he's going to kick this guy's ass. It's almost like, isn't that what Joe Flacco was?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, well, I guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
No, it's like the beginning of Rocky 3 when Mickey was like staging all these tomatoes for Rocky to make Rocky think he was this invincible champ. And I think Daniel Jones might be a tomato.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
That was like when Kevin Clark almost got... I think he did get hit by a car. He got hit by a car more than once. No proof of vision on Kevin Clark or Daniel Jones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
As I've said on the pod, I think even you guys, I think Brady has ruined everyone's ability to look at this stuff rationally because Brady's ability to play until he's 45, much like LeBron, who is now 40, and every day it's like, LeBron now has the most... offensive rebounds by a 40 year old ever. And they're just listening to stats because nobody else can play that long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Should have been standing there. One of the ones... That's true. Why was he on the sidewalk? The Matt Damon Zero Trip Cameo Award for the most unexpected moment of joy for all of us was the Bills just randomly getting Josh Palmer. I thought of Craig immediately. Craig's never, you have the most stock in this guy. This guy, he doesn't know. Do you have a texting relationship with him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Like, are you friends with him? If he's in town, do you eat dinner with him? Like, how does it work?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I like him too. I was playing a Madden season with Drake May and I traded for Josh Palmer. I just put him right on the pads. Guys, I was thinking that rant Craig just did about Josh Palmer. Yeah. When he, during the five spots, during the, as you guys are getting closer and closer to the drafts,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
You can just run that as a video, like on a loop, like in speed with Keanu Reeves standing next to the bus driver. And Craig could go like, P, just run the same rant over it. Like you'll get a glass of water and just run the Josh Palmer rant and go. I'm excited for Josh to Josh Heifetz. Josh squared. There's something there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
There's all kinds of ways.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah. I liked him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I like Josh. I'm rooting for him. We don't have to talk about this next award, but I'm just going to throw, because we talked about the top, but the Damien Cockburn dropping his cast into the jungle award for craziest idea that just might work is if the Giants can just take Sanders at three and send Hunter or Carter down. I'm going to be focused on this for the next six weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Next award, the Danny McBride making breakfast award for the transaction that randomly brought me the most joy. Kenny Pickett traded to the Cleveland Browns for DST in a fifth. I stared at this for 20 minutes. How did they decide that a draft pick should be involved? Does this mean the Browns are going to start Kenny Pickett? How did Harry Roseman get a draft pick for Kenny Pickett?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And if you're the Browns and you're one of the stupidest teams of the last 10 years, should you just ever trade with the Eagles under any circumstances? I loved all the aspects of this trade. Does anyone want to take a crack at trying to explain this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I just think Brady's ruined it for everyone else. I don't think it's, I think the Kirk cousins path of how this goes is the more realistic way this should probably go. But Aaron Rogers got what he wanted because we just spent five minutes talking about him on this podcast. Could have picked the team yesterday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Sign here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Who's the Eagles backup now? McKee? Tanner McKee? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I would add that to the sad Kenny Pickett facts. Tanner McKee made him expendable, apparently.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Heifetz, is there a chance Craig is talking himself into Kenny Pickett as like a sleeper stealth fantasy starter in like August 10th?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Okay. Because you've always kind of deep down liked him a little bit, Craig.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I lost some stock on him. I'll tell you that much. I bought some stock before that 23 season. I invested.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah, my new rule is I'm just going to ignore every single thing that happens in the preseason and just stick with what I thought in July. All right. Only a couple more. The Simple Jack Award for most inevitable box office bomb. The Miami Dolphins. When do the over-unders come out? When? When can they come out, Fandle? Fandle, can you just put out a Dolphins over-under now? I'm going under.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I don't care what it is. Is it eight and a half? Under. Seven and a half? Under. Six and a half? Fine. Under. They can't make the under low enough. And Zach Wilson for $6 million, we rented home. But it was like, the Tyreek trade request is coming. They lost Javon Holland. Today, there was an article about, hey, They got a chance for Joey Bosa. They're one of the finalists. It's like, cool.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
So I have this whole gimmick I wanted to... Before we do that, I couldn't help but notice how free agency seems like it might be affecting the draft. Because, for instance, the Patriots, and we'll talk about them later, but they really loaded up on their defense. They got another awesome defensive tackle to put, hopefully, with Barmore if he's healthy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
He plays four games a year. That fits right in with the rest of the best guys in your team. They are still 43 to one on FanDuel to win the Super Bowl. I'd like to announce I'm booking that bet. If anyone wants to bet 43 to one on Miami Dolphins, I will book the action right here on the Bill Simmons podcast. That team's going to suck. Simple Jack right there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Tyreek on the team in September, Danny? I'm going to go no. No. Feels Chargers-y to me. Feels like the Chargers have been quiet, so they just lose Josh Palmer. They desperately need some speed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Yeah. I think Dolphins are going to be terrible. Craig, anything to add on Dolphins before we go to the last award? It's like the Mad Men quote. I don't think about the Dolphins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I'll actually have two more awards. I have the I Love You Man Award. for sneaky best signings. Cause I think I love you, man has become the sneaky best comedy of the two thousands. It just came out. There were too many comments. It just kind of came and went. And, uh, I think it's a solid, I think it's a rewatchables candidate. I think it's really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It just came out. 09 was just a glut. It was like when the draft has receiver gluts and there's just so many. It's like, whoa.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
All right. So sneaky best signings. I mentioned how much I like the Spillane signing to New England. I just love that guy. But I, Drake Greenlaw to the, to the Broncos really jumped out to me because that's another one where it's coming off the injury and now there's been enough distance and he just fits in with what they do. I just, that one jumped out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I was like, ah, that's a, that's a really good one. What, what was your favorite sneaky signing DK? Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I think... You could say Josh Palmer, even though we already talked about him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
No, it was, because they got rid of Carlton Davis and basically paid DJ Reed less to play the same position.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
What do you have, Heifetz?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
So that removes Mason Graham from them at number four. There's no way they take him now. You have... The Vegas at six who traded for Gino, you have the Jets at seven who signed Justin Fields. Makes me wonder why either one of those teams would want Shador Sanders.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I thought the Pats were going to get him and they went with Carlton Davis instead because the DC coached him. But I also think it felt like an attitude pick. He's like a big shit talker, like tough guy. And I think they want the defense to have guys like that. But I thought DJ Reed was really good last year. And I agree with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
I thought the games I watched, it felt like he was even... What do you have for your sneaky signing, Craig?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Did Aaron Rodgers get signed yet? Because I only have one more award. He's just going to wait till Thursday. He's milking it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Enema from Religion of Sports. May 25th. All right. Last award. The waking up in a trash Vegas hotel room with a splitting hangover, a random baby, a tiger in the bathroom, a missing tooth, and a missing buddy award goes to the San Francisco 49ers, who lost everyone on their team. I know. And they weren't good last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
They lost Tufanga, Ward, Greenlaw, Kinlaw, Debo, Aaron Banks, Jalen Moore, Hargrave, Yusek. They overpaid Ayuk, who immediately got hurt. They locked up McCaffrey right before his inevitable injury that everybody knew was happening. And now they're about to overpay Brock Purdy. This feels like a car going off a mountain in slow motion. It might have already gone off the mountain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
DK, you have to be ecstatic because there's no team you hate more than the 49ers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And the two guys I heard McShay and his partner talk about yesterday, like, is there a scenario where Travis Hunter falls out of the top five? Is there a scenario where Sanders just falls because nobody in the top nine wants him? I guess my first question, Craig, is the fact that fields is on the jets. and Geno's on the Vegas, cross those teams off for you as a Sanders destination.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
When you said Andy Reid timeline, I immediately thought to the year when they went like 4-12 and he got fired.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
One question that I think people will probably start thinking about when we get to August, because there were so many coaching jobs that flipped, is what are going to be the big coaching jobs in January 2026? And if you're just going, if you had to like handicap it, I would say the Niners and the Dolphins would be the two. Is there another? Is this the Steelers? Would you throw on there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Craig, to be fair, I said big coaching job.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
But I just feel like they've lost a lot of games in the third, fourth quarter. A lot of big games over the years, even going back to Patriots 28-3. I don't know how that doesn't hang on him at least a little bit. Like that team never comes through when it matters over and over and over again. And even, you know, I, I don't know. I, I think he's a good coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And I, is he one of the 12 best coaches in the league? Sure. But I don't, I wouldn't value him like that to me. I would value somebody like Tomlin way more where, and I know Tomlin drives, you've had him forever, Craig. He probably some things about him that drives you crazy, but he hasn't had a good quarterback since like 2015. Yeah. 16, whatever that last good Roethlisberger year was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
True. I just, I think he's fine. But if he's like the savior in New York, first of all, his interviews are a little weird. Kendall Roy-ish. Yeah, he's a little, I don't know how that would play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
But he's also a no Brock Purdy away from he would have been fired two years ago because that Trey Lance thing would have run the franchise into the ground. So I don't know the answer, but I don't know. Would you put him, DK, would you put him in like your top five coaches? Because I would not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Well, but to be fair, that was the Andy Reed thing. Cause that was when I was writing football columns and basketball columns all the time. And Andy Reed, uh, I had him in the playoff manifesto. I was like, never bet on Andy Reid in the playoffs. He was like rule number six and he had a lot of bad ones and they piled up and it got to the point where you said, yeah, this guy has a fatal flaw.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
So I don't know. But it does feel like this feels like the end of the line for the Diners in a lot of different ways. All right, so we didn't get to talk about the Joe Milton sweepstakes, the Bears beefing up both lines, J.J. McCarthy time. For the movies that I think we hit every movie except we didn't talk about Mean Girls. Didn't talk about Dodgeball. Pineapple Express.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Any award you want to just pull out of your back pocket, Craig? Just with no prep at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
We didn't do Road Trip. Bang. What's bang? Don't. Don't. But who does that go to, though? I used to carry this when I was a prostitute.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Don't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
All right. That's good. All right. This is fun. So when's your next podcast? Tomorrow. All right. Well, maybe Rodgers will have decided, but my guess is he won't. Who's going to milk this for all he wants? Two teams left. Danny, Danny, Craig. Great to see you guys as always. Craig, I'll see you tomorrow when it's threatening to become sports movie month on the rewatchables.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Do you want to announce it now? No, but it's another sports movie. I've never seen it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
All right, great. Good to see you guys. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Danny and Danny and Craig. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti as well. Don't forget, you can watch all the clips and videos from this pod on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Don't forget about Rewatchables, Best in Show, Prestige TV, Hittin' White Lotus. Episode five's coming Sunday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
And I will see you on this podcast on Thursday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did best in show. It was me and Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson. You can check it out on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well, or you can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. Joanna Mallory and I also did a recap of season four of episode four of White Lotus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Heifetz, what's more realistic? The Raiders take Shader Sanders or the Raiders take Tyler Warren so they could have taken a tight end in three straight years with a top pick in the NFL draft if you had to pick one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
So four tight end offensive impossible? Is it like a four receiver? Could you just put all of them on the line?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Danny Kelly, I have a counter for both of their takes. Tom Brady on the record a lot with how we rush young quarterbacks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
How these guys need time to stay there and learn how you want to integrate them. That's what happened to him with the Patriots. He had like a year plus where he didn't think he was going to play and it was so helpful to him. If there's anybody who's going to talk themselves into, we already have Geno Smith, but let's also take Sanders six and put him in the Geno Smith, Tom Brady QB camp.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
It would be the Raiders. I don't think it makes sense. I can't cross them off yet though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Well, the Patriots are screwed because at four, we're all really hoping somebody trades up to four and they can move back and take a tackle. Jets aren't going to trade up, I don't think. Raiders aren't going to trade up, I don't think. That leaves the Saints, who just seem like they're in hell. We'll talk about them later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Heifetz, my best chance for the Pats, for either Carter or Hunter to follow the Pats at four, is if your Giants take Sanders at three. And to this point, now it is 11.13 a.m. PT. They still have not signed Aaron Rodgers. But if they don't get Aaron Rodgers, the Sanders thing at three becomes a little more realistic, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
This show is getting lit. I can't wait for everybody to see episode five. We're actually recording that episode this week in episode five. It goes up a few levels. I'm just warning you. But I think the show has been really good. It's been really fun talking about it. We're doing a ringer. 100 best sports moments of the century thing that you can find on the website. We've done videos.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
So there's a chance. So the Giants could take him at three. They could also trade back, potentially, because nobody else would take him. And then the Saints would be the only other one that needs him. I have no idea if the Sanders family would even want to go there. But, you know, he's not good. These quarterbacks are not good enough to go 1-2, and you guys are doing a lot of the legwork on this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Craig, is there any scenario where the quarterbacks go 1-2? Because last time I checked, Cleveland doesn't need a quarterback and just traded for one that we'll talk about in the next segment. Why wouldn't they just take Sanders if he was good enough?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Wow. What do you think, Danny Kelly?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Heifetz, who's the most shocking person you could see actually going in the top four of this draft?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Membo could be the fast riser guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
Cause I know Craig, did you, did you mention, did you measure your arm length? Is it over 33 inches? Do you think you could block? Could you block an edge rusher? Because you got to get to 33 plus inches, apparently. Will Campbell's only at 32. How does that translate to height?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
You just need to get your hands far enough out to shove the guy back. And apparently Will Campbell, that extra half inch. There's no way we could take him for it. I've said this before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
The Pats cannot take Will Campbell fourth when we're not positive if he's a guard or a tackle. I've said that already. I just feel like if there's any doubt whatsoever, at that point, just take Membo because everyone's like, he's definitely a left tackle. We don't know how good he is, but I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm on a lot of threads. I like what the Pats did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Welcome to the Bill Simmons podcast. Before we get to the pod, I want to talk about Kyrie Irving and the Dallas Mavericks and this crazy situation. Kyrie out for the year, tore his ACL, came out today. And Kyrie is, I've had a rollercoaster ride with over the years where didn't really like him on Cleveland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So this whole- So you have four teams in the top seven, basically, that desperately need a quarterback. Yes. Which is why Kim Ward has to go first. And it's not even going to matter whether he should be the first pick. And usually, what is it? It's 50-50 with a quarterback that high. Those are the guys from the last 25 years. It might even be like 35-65 for him to be good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But he's still got to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They have their first round pick next year. And what we've seen with this injury over the years is it's almost a two-year injury. You lose the guy this year. But even when he comes back, we saw this happen with Jamal Murray in Denver. Either they don't come back the season after or when they come back, they're not the same person. So you almost have to think you lose a year and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Drake may have had Brissette, which I think was a bonus considering he didn't have a coaching staff, but at least he had Jacoby Brissette.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Is there, I was texting with Todd McShay about this this morning. Isn't a likely scenario that quarterbacks go one-two, even if it makes no sense whatsoever? Because nobody's been able to explain to me why the Browns wouldn't take a quarterback. When Deshaun Watson isn't playing again, they're absolutely screwed with the cap. There is no possible way they can acquire anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And this is their one chance to actually add somebody. So I don't, what was the, I mean, there's been the Sanders stuff and the stories about the stories and the narratives behind the narratives. We've gone in nine different directions. Oh, we're just getting started. Just wait. Yeah. It's going to get worse and worse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And it's also, he's, you know, got a famous father who might decide I want to nudge him toward a certain team and is going to know some tricks. Some other families don't, which if, by the way, I think that should happen more often. I think that should happen with Cooper flag in the NBA. Like you have the leverage pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like we always talk about player empowerment with the NBA and pick your team and try like, It's never with the rookie. We saw it with Eli Manning, where he didn't want to go to San Diego, ended up with the Giants. I'm always amazed that doesn't happen more often. But if Deion is like, I want Sanders on Vegas. That's just how this is going to play out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It would be pretty hard for the rest of the league to stop that. Anyway, I feel like there's a one-two scenario with the QBs, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You're right. It wasn't even two weeks. It was eight days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It's like a Hawaii trip.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It was like... He had White Lotus season four. I've lost $80 billion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They don't have control of their own pick from 27 to 30. And on top of this, They have to watch Luka, who's already rejuvenated. You can see it. When we talk about face of the league, face of the league, like Luka on the most famous basketball franchise we have, all due respect to the Celtics. You can watch the Celtics City documentary. But the Lakers, I think, are the...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Which is why the Giants would have to leapfrog the Browns at two to get Cam Ward, which is why I think Cam Ward is going to be the first pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Are you talking about the Drew Locke game? That's what it's called now, right? The Pats had the Joe Milton game. But Drew Locke was incredible in that game. Because I bet on the Colts, Drew Locke was lights out. I mean, you can make a case like, yo, look at that drew lock tape. Maybe we, maybe we have the solution in house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So you have Shador next to Jackson Dart, potentially. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Wow. So he could be a drop chip on the shoulder guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm going to zag. Let me hear. Son of a famous person. Tough. Seems like he's smart. It seems like the thing that people are worried about with him is the athleticism more than anything. But he's got the toughness and the competitiveness that they like. And I do feel like as we get closer, the teams start talking themselves into the pluses.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Because the minuses aren't like, this guy's kind of a wuss. This guy's not a leader of men. You know, they're more like... Not a diva.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
LeBron showed up, really liked him, didn't like him as much, came to my favorite team, was all in. It couldn't have ended worse. Became probably my least favorite basketball player. Goes to Brooklyn. That goes terrible. Goes to Dallas. You guys are so stupid. And then over the last two years, or last maybe year and a half, I really grew to like him as a basketball player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
the premier franchise in the league. The Celtics are the most successful. The Lakers are in LA. They've had the most stars. Luka's in there now. There's an energy that's completely different at these games. And the Maverick fans who already got kicked in the nuts with this trade in the worst way I think we've ever seen in basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
There's the other piece of that when you think about quarterback prospects, because there's two versions of it, right? There's a quarterback who had the weight of the college on their shoulders. And then there's the guy who was on an awesome team where the program was kind of the star and they were the quarterback of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And some of the guys that have succeeded, especially recently, you know, Drake May just, he stayed in North Carolina. He was the whole program. He took all the leadership responsibilities and it was, even though the record kind of came and went, but he was whatever. Bo Nix was in the spotlight in real ways in different colleges. And then Jaden Daniels, same thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And then he has that OSU year where I just wonder sometimes, is it better to, in college, you're really the guy, at least for a year, does that prep you in a certain way to, whereas you look at like a Trubisky. Like I would study, if I was a team. Hey, Anthony Richardson. Anthony Richardson has 14 starts. Have somebody study like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like the ones that didn't work and like, what are the common denominators? And one of them is like not enough starts. Like that was a Trey Lance thing too. How big was the spotlight? How much pressure were they under on this limited level? And how did that go to the, how is that going to transfer? Sanders had like a giant spotlight on him for three years there, which I think is a positive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They were in the limelight. It was those two and Dion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Purdy parallel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Now they have to watch this guy blossom as their team already just fell apart. And You know, I tweeted this earlier today and I really mean it. I went to those three 2011 finals games in Dallas when they came back and they beat Miami. They actually lost the first game, which was Dwayne Wade, I think the best game I've ever seen him play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It's going into a new situation, having to meet a bunch of people. Yeah. Um, I know we're a little bit all over the place, but like, can we go back to the experience though for a second? Cause yeah, I think this is actually the case for Darnold who I think is now an underrated asset. He had 27 games at USC, right? Where he started. Yep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And then if you go in as a pro, he started 73 games over the last eight years. He's at a hundred career starts now and look great until those last two weeks. Is that a Minnesota offensive line issue? Was it a scheming issue? Was it just that he played two great teams? Like, I feel as we get closer to free agency, there's going to be teams tilting it and going glass half full.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Because if you can get him for less than the Baker. What's the number? Well, let's say you can get him for 15 to 20. Let's say you can get him to. No, 15 to 20. Yes. The question is, if you can do that, like 30 to 40. But you're telling me the Raiders wouldn't want to spend 20 million a year on Sam Darnold if they couldn't get the thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That would be Brady just being like, this guy doesn't have it. I'm out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Right. It was like a regular season Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That was Darnold. I mean, if it's Aaron Rodgers versus Darnold, come on. Kyle's going to turn the TikTok camera on because I have a very important Tom Brady point. Okay, let's go. Tom Brady. I love Tom Brady. Brought me six Super Bowls. One of my favorite athletes of all time. This is a dangerous thing where you have him...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
running a football team, thinking he knows what's best with quarterback because he was a great quarterback because all of the evidence with the great players we've ever had, name the sport, mostly they're not good at this. They think they're seeing things that other people don't see, and it's not actually rational.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like Magic Johnson, Lonzo Ball got hurt, obviously, but Magic Johnson took Lonzo Ball over Jason Tatum, right? You have like Wayne Gretzky ran a hockey team. How did that go? I'm trying to think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But Michael Jordan ran the Charlotte Hornets slash Bobcats for the big Sean May guy. Couldn't have been worse. Like steered them toward Kwame Brown. The wizard steered them toward Kwame Brown over Pau Gasol and those guys because he liked what he saw from Kwame Brown in a workout. Like, I don't know if I trust the greatest players ever on stuff like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And then they come back, they win game four, they win game five. And a big reason they won those games was their crowd was incredible. I don't know where they rank in the best basketball fan bases, but for me, they're in the top seven. And, you know, I used to love the Warriors fan base even before the Curry stuff happened. There's the Knicks, no matter how bad the teams are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So Jerry West is a positive. There's some that wouldn't. I'm just saying it's not a slam dunk, but I think part of the problem is if you and I are in that room with Tom Brady, And we're like, yo, man, we think Darnold. He might dismiss him right away. And Brady's like, I'm out. I watched that game. He doesn't have it. I'm out. Are we going to argue with Tom Brady? Yeah. So it's just you now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Now it's like this one voice that just sees what he wants to see. I'm fascinated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Could there be some new owner syndrome with this? Yes. Where they're like, yeah, let me make a splash. Got to get somebody really good. Got to get Chip Kelly's offense. Yeah. Got to find the right person. Nice, mobile, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I can't believe Rodgers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
If you're the Seahawks... And you can get a high second round pick for Gino Smith and then spend 20 million a year on Sam Darnold for three years and just invest in your offensive line and be like, if we can actually block for this guy with the guys we have, we can actually do this. I would do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Or available for TV. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You might be doing TV for him on network TBD in about six months. Don't laugh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I need to take a breath.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
If Jared Siddham makes more money than Sam Darnold, what are we doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
At this point, go take a look at Joe Milton's Week 18 game tape and talk yourself into that if we're going down to Jared Siddham. Don't laugh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like he was, he was really good in that last game. Let's take a break. I got lots more to cover with you. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's winter or it's the tail end of winter. You can now get almost anything you need for the coldest stretch of the year delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a snow plow delivered. You can get snow peas delivered.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
If you went to a game and they liked the team, it was just a great place to see a game. You can feel the love. And I really feel like the Dallas fans, everything they had built from 1980 on, like had gotten to that level. They really loved this team. They appreciated Dirk. Um, they really wanted him to come through.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Snow angel? No. Angel hair pasta, sure. Sunshine, that's a no. A bottle of wine, that's a yes. Yes, Uber Eats can get you that along with a side of garlic bread and creme brulee to top all of it off. Little angel hair pasta, bottle of wine. Sounds great. Get almost, almost anything for your winter delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. All right, so quick tangent that I'm going to bring back to the NFL. In the NBA, the bleakest situations right now are the Suns and the Sixers and now the Mavericks who made this catastrophic Luka trade and then Kyrie's out for the year. And it's just, you just look at those and you go, wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
this three, four year window here, pretty bleak. Who, in your opinion, like, especially like being around everybody last week, who are the bleak franchises other than the Browns? We're just going to grandfather them in. The Browns have to be number one bleak, but who else is in that conversation?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Would you say that's the gold standard of bleak right now? It has to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
The Browns fans feeling good all of a sudden.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And then in those, those three games, especially the last two, and they started to shift the narrative on Dirk and you could just really feel the love and, and the pure euphoria. Um, and then Luca shows up, becomes their guy and they're like, we're in, we have 20 air season tickets for this dude. We'll buy his jerseys. We love this guy. This is our guy. We'll have some ups and downs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And Drake May.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Thanks. Justin Fields. So you'd have Jets, who else? Because I would say at least with the Jets, there's a lot of talent there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, they're already letting DJ Reed go, which I thought was kind of shocking. He was good last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, come to the Pats, DJ Reed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Wait, hold on. I was going to end with the Pats. So Jets bleak, Browns bleak. Would you throw the Saints in there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Wait, when you say he's in the same boat as Kirk Cousins, are you talking about the Titanic? What boat is that? Is that boat still floating?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
What happened with the Raiders last year is... the point for that, you just don't want to have a season where you're the Raiders and you realize like by the third preseason game, like, wow, our quarterback suck. This is going to be terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Would you go bleak for the Cowboys? Semi bleak? No. Medium bleak?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Right. Well, the off season, especially this part. And when we had an afraid to see draft is all about how do I convince my fan base to, to be potentially excited about something and the Cowboys can be like, Hey, Dak's healthy. We got Parsons. We have three of the best players in the league. Yeah. We're the Cowboys. What's the case for the Saints?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
We have no cap space and Derek Carr's coming back. And we hired the ninth coach who got hired. And we're in the NFC South. Never know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Maybe he won't always be in shape, but this guy's special and we're going to win the title with him. And it's going to be amazing. And the trade pulled that away. They're still pissed about it. Now you have this. And this situation is not so bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Do you feel like it's less bleak in Jacksonville? Oh, dude. It's better. Okay, give me stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
We were joking after it happened that the real reason the family that owns the team did this is because they wanted to sabotage basketball in Dallas and move it to Vegas. uh, move the team to Vegas because the Dallas team, the Dallas fans would hate them so much that you'd almost have to move. It's almost like there's a precedent of this, like George Shin and Charlotte.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And he's like, he writes every episode. He runs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You should do something where you come into the ring and you get hit with a chair.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He's probably trying to book Ian Rappaport and Schultz to have some sort of Starbucks match. He would love that. They can whip lattes at each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm going to give you a possible bleak candidate and you're going to be upset. Why are we so negative? Let's be positive. I'm going positive. One second. Okay. Are the dolphins in the bleak zone? Tyreek probably pushing for the trade. McDaniel, even though he got an extension, I'm sure he's definitely on first coast fired watch, I would think. Tua, who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Classic salary cap team where they had to pay these guys and now it's all fucked up. And they're in a division with the Bills. The Pats are going to be better. The Jets won't be better. But I wonder if they're on bleak watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
What's he doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, he was good. I liked him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm not sure I think that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I have real concerns about McDaniel. I have real concerns about Tua. And I have real concerns about we're going to wake up three days from now and Tyreek Hill's like, I want to be a Charger. Let's make that happen, guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It would be the Chiefs? Yeah. Is that even possible? The Chiefs just have an unlimited salary cap. I don't know how they do it. It's like, hey, we're going to franchise tag our left guard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He, his name became so bad in Charlotte that he actually moved the team to New Orleans. It's obviously ridiculous. It would never happen. But that, but the Kyrie injury on, on, on top of everything else is the first time where I started thinking to myself,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
An incredibly disappointing season by his standards last year. The Super Bowl was a disaster. So I hope he's motivated. The anti-bleak watch, the you-go-to-combine... And these teams are like, it's like the sky has opened. It's after it's rained for a week straight. And all of a sudden it's the first sunny day and everybody's like, I want to go outside. We don't have to talk about the Pats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I talk about them too much. We can do that at the very end. But who else is in that? Washington. The skies have opened. Washington.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Let's go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Ask me how great Jada Daniels is. I'd love to talk about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Can I give you my, can I give you my 30 second Debo take as an intermission? Mm-hmm. San Francisco being like, yeah, we're good. Take them. It reminded me of the Celtics with Marcus Smart. And this is where I bring the Celtics into a football podcast. Fine. Like they knew something. Well, it was in watching him. And this was the case Priscilla and I made on the podcast after that trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It was like, that dude's body's been through a lot. We watched him for the last nine years. He took a million charges. He was on the floor all the time. And I think they're getting out a year too early instead of a year too late with his body. So what happens? He goes to Memphis, he breaks down and he has not been healthy ever since.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Holy shit, like that's actually how bad this might get where they might have to be like, hey, can we have the Vegas expansion team instead and we'll just sell Dallas and maybe or make Dallas the expansion team or we'll move operations to Vegas and you can make Dallas the expansion team and call it the Mavericks and keep it the history. That's how bad this is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, he's like a veteran on Washington. So I look at Debo and like you, I watch football every week. Debo took a fucking ton of hits. The way they used him, he was like a crash test dummy. And I just wonder if they were like, I think we took this as far as we can go. If it starts to dip, it could be on somebody else's team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It was like you on TV last year. That was the same thing. I just felt like a giant chip on your shoulder.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Send me anywhere. Contract year. Let's go. So the Washington thing, the vibes are unbelievable. Unbelievable. Great coach, great GM, franchise QB, most beloved guy in Washington, even more than Ovechkin. House is like, can't even come up with somebody on par with him at this point. You have to go back to like the Gibbs era. Who else is the skies aparted? Give me another team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Did you say Chargers, Rosie? Rosie Chargers or not totally?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And also it might be out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And they have a little more money this year, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So there's good, like high second round running back. candidates for that. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And I'm really feeling for the Mavs today because the combo of that trade, losing Davis in his first game and then losing Kyrie for a year and a half probably. I honestly can't think of another NBA situation like this where a fan base has taken in the teeth like this. So shout out to them. I think it's a sad basketball day because Kyrie was playing great. I loved watching him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And also they become me and nephew Kyle. And every time we're together, Kyle's like Kyle's waiting for Abdul Carter to fall to four because of some amorphous foot thing. And then he's buying the Jersey like that day. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And the free agents- It's funny how that works when you have a good quarterback and a good coach. No doubt. It's funny how that shifts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Oh, Will Campbell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, but he had the short arms. I was on multiple short arm threads. That's okay. He couldn't even get to 33 inches with his reach. How's he going to hold back Michael Parsons with those short arms?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm high on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm on McShay says there's three elite guys in the draft. And that was how I was feeling anyway, knowing nothing, but doing all the prep. And it just feels like, but the thing is with defensive tackle, that's the easiest position to get in free agency. There's a million of them. True. If you're trying to put together a team of assets, which is what they need to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That's probably not where you go, but I want an, I want an all pro in this draft. You have to get an all pro in this draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But if you're- No, that's a trade back. That could be your guy. You flip picks with the Jets or the Saints or whoever, or even Vegas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
The only thing that worries me with TMAC is their wide receiver class is so bad that when somebody is the best looking person at a party of ugly people, they look fucking so handsome or beautiful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It sounds great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But that's what worries me. But if they want him, I think he's in the 8 to 12 range. I don't think they can't take. Well, the team that I could see taking him is Jacksonville at five because it seems like it's their decades mission to just keep spending capital on wide receivers to try to talk themselves into Trevor Lawrence. The Patriots can't block.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm just going to say that they can't take Will Campbell at four because we don't know if he's a left tackle or guard. But I think I think that moving back. into the six to 10 range and taking a receiver tackle. It's hard to argue with, but you'd have to have a team wanting to move up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I can see Carter for the Pats, though. Oh, dude. I think if there's a scenario where people get worried about, well, what's going on with this foot or any of that shit, and two quarterbacks go in the top three and Hunter goes at, like... It's Carter. That would be the dream. It's Carter. That's Willie McGinnis, the 96, although 95 or 94 or whenever he got him all over again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
this really feels like this kills the Mavericks now for the rest of the decade. So wanted to mention at the top, let's get to the rest of the podcast. This episode is brought to you by Nissan. If you're planning on an adventurous 2025, you're going to need a car that can keep up with you and conquer anything. in your path.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, but we took him like fourth or fifth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And it was like, Hey, this guy is like going to be our, this guy is going to go chase the quarterback now for the next 10 years for you guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
At the combine, we did bleak, we did happy. Who's the, what the fuck is that team doing team? That people were just kind of gossiping about. Like they were like, you know, the friend in the, the friend in the neighborhood who were like, what's going on in that house? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Franchise tagged Higgins already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So we always talk about how you can basically afford three giant guys in the NFL, the way the cap is. And if you can pull off four, well, you got to count Burrow though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So if you're doing Burrow with the two receivers, that's an insane use of Kappa. It's insane. They just waived Alex Kappa too. They waived Alex Kappa, which was unexpected. Although he didn't have a great year, but they're losing guys already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You can't build a team around a quarterback and two receivers and expect that's going to work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And they're cheap. They're like the Pats. They're cheap. I mean, Vrabels try to change the Pats, but Bengals are cheap. Pats are cheap. So on top of, at least the Chiefs are like spending when they try to do this gymnastics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Burrow would be a dick. Don't you think? Like if it gets to the point here, He will put, he will be like an NBA star putting pressure on them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So yeah, The Higgins-Chase, when they play together with Burrow, the numbers are undeniable. They're undeniable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Right. But if you're looking at Higgins and Sheil had him as his number two free agent, he had Darnold number one only because there's no quarterbacks. But the Higgins thing would be, well, what about the games without Chase?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And you look at those, what happens when the defense is targeted against him versus I think T Higgins is amazing. I think that would be my dream Pats guy. I wouldn't give up the first pick for him, obviously, but the second pick, the second rounder I would do in a heartbeat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
T Higgins is fucking great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
If you take a guy in the top 10, he's got to be your quarterback.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Two for 35?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Do you have it out after one year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm like, by the way, I had COVID those last two games. Sorry. Sorry, guys. I can't believe you guys didn't get sick. Why'd you make me play? Should it make me nervous that the Pats are probably going to spend on Ronnie Stanley? Because I still don't understand why the Ravens would let Ronnie Stanley go as their left tackle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm not nervous. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They said they didn't like Josh Sweat. I think Vaughn is a real possibility, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, the move is what the Commanders did last year. Getting those guys that weren't the A-list guys, but they were like, it's almost like the White Lotus cast strategy. No doubt. It's like, we're going to get Carrie Coon. Bring me Carrie Coon. Yeah, Carrie Coon's a really good actress. Washington just went out and got like nine Carrie Coons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, maybe it does.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, Austin Eckler is Greg Gary, the evil guy. I mean, that guy's been in all three seasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He has that and he was the drug dealer in 90210. He's got one of the great IMDbs of all time. Yeah, he got... He got Dylan hooked on drugs. Khalil Mack. What are the Chargers doing? Bosa and Mack?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I liked how he talked about everything, how he took some responsibility. It was like everything I wanted from an athlete. I really liked watching him and I grew to respect and like him as a player. And they make this Luka trade. It is the least popular, most shocking, most indefensible trade in the history of the league. It's getting worse by the day. The fans are just so angry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Last question. Houston is the most interesting offseason team to me because I don't know how far away they are from being impactful. I thought they were in the mix last year, especially if you look back at how the season went, how they were able to play against the Chiefs defensively. What they were missing feels easy to add. I like their coaching staff. I like their division.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always secure cargo. I hope you stayed because I have football and the Oscars and Gene Hackman coming up next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Rocky. That's right. The original Rocky. The Oscar-winning Rocky.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They're in a great division. That could easily be like a 14-3 team next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They had bad luck.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They lost two receivers by the time we got to the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
In retrospect, that was the red flag game for the Super Bowl, looking back, as I still continue to kick myself for not just having the balls take fillers. You've mentioned this on quite a few pods. That Houston game was a bad sign for the Chiefs. They hung around like they did with the, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
We have to go. I have to go talk to Wesley Morris about the Oscars.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Great move. Onora's good. You should see Onora. Is it good? Yeah. Schrags, we'll talk to you before the draft. Great to see you as always. You're the man, Bill. Thank you. My old longtime friend, Wesley Morris, is here. We used to work together at Grantland. He's at the New York Times. Did not talk to him right before the Oscars, although we talked a couple months ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
We were waiting until after the Oscars, which was a very strange Oscars and was dominated by a movie called Enora. What you liked. I did like Enora. Chalamet did not win. Demi Moore did not win. I'm going to start here. We haven't talked. We've only texted a little bit. I was so happy. Mikey Madison won. I thought that was the best performance of any movie I saw.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And I did not see the brutalist yet. Um, but I thought she was awesome. And this whole, sometimes this will happen in sports too, where they'll just decide, well, to be more, she's been waiting forever. She's got to win. And that was an important movie. And I was just like, what the fuck? Like Mac, Mikey Madison should win. Now, do you agree or disagree with that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Cause I feel like you might disagree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
The movie that made Sly Stallone an A-plus list superstar that created the template for all sports movies. That was me and Chris Ryan and Van Lathan. You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify. You can also watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. I also, another podcast this week, we did the episode three recap of The White Lotus. You can find that on the Prestige TV podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
She was really good in that. I can't believe she didn't get nominated, actually.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Dickinson, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Would that have been supporting actor for you or actor?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That's how I felt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I thought it was a very strange movie year. I didn't feel like a lot of stuff jumped out. And I, you know, we always talk about how it's a little bit like sports where you look back years later and like, Oh, what was that year? Oh, that was the year Nora won all this stuff. Um, I just thought I didn't know her really at all other than TV stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And, um, you know, she was once upon a time in Hollywood working actress. She was like the 11th person. And once upon a time in Hollywood, um, and I just felt like I liked those movies sometimes where it's just like, Oh, this person's a star. I'm watching her become a star during the movie. I thought it was a pretty, pretty out there performance. It's a crazy movie. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
that I think has some flaws, which we talked about in the past. But I just thought it was a really memorable performance. But I also felt that way about Nicole Kidman. If she had won in that category over her, I still wouldn't have agreed, but I would have understood it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You can find all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And... You can watch us. I hope you're watching us as a video podcast. So we launched the first episode of Celtic City yesterday on HBO. First of nine episodes. You can also watch it on Max. Please check it out. The feedback's been awesome. Thanks to everybody who reached out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You're bringing in your 40 plus year history with her movies and that became part of the performance for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Can I do my history?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Um, I went back to, to be more in general hospital cause I was watching general hospital in the early eighties. That's where she broke in. Yep. Uh, was with her through the Brad pack years. Uh, It was amazing to watch her. It felt like she fizzled out and then became a big star. I think she was really under, like we did a disclosure for rewatchable. She's just great in that movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
She's just a 10 out of 10 smoking hot, incredibly confident. But I swear to God, I think the best scene of her entire career, you're going to laugh. And this is one of my, one of my takes that I'll probably take shit for it. I don't really care. You're you, you're used to it. Go on. When, When Rob Lowe breaks up with her in about last night. Oh. And he says he doesn't love her anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I honestly think that's the best acting moment of her career. And apparently he ad-libbed it and it wasn't in there, but the way she reacts to it, you could just see it go through her entire body. I think she's had some really great acting moments over the years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You know, this is if you care about basketball, you care about sports history. My hope with this stuff is you could potentially get sucked in if something is just really well done. And I think our thing is really well done. And I think the early feedback is that people are like, wow, I learned a lot. This is fucking awesome to watch. When's the next one? So it's once a week. Check it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like G.I. Jane's another one. Disclosures like that. I think she's good in Ghost. I think in St. Elmo's Fire, she has a couple moments where you're like, I would run through fiery hell to get this girl to like me, right? And she's a one-on-one where I don't even know... There's a little Kathleen Turner in there just because of her voice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But she was drop dead beautiful in the 80s and then kind of transformed over the 90s. So we've been there the whole time with her. But part of what I thought was interesting about this movie, because you're right, it's a career retrospective of her. I actually feel like her career should have been better. I think I think she could have made this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I think she could have made better movie choices when she had her peak. Like you think about even like making a movie like Strip Cheese. That was like a paycheck movie. That's like what we get mad at some actors doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That's like I want to work with my husband. That movie sucks. I don't like that movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, that movie sucks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
She became the biggest contract. That was the biggest salary anyone made in Hollywood.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
She's good in Indecent Proposal. I'm not arguing the success. I just wish there were a couple of awesome movies in there where she was like going for an Oscar. And I don't think that was even on the radar for her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like think about the Scarlet letter. So that's where we disagree. I think, I think she had it in her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
What if she was the prostitute and leaving Las Vegas instead of Elizabeth Shue? Probably too old. No, she's too... I mean, too old when they made that movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, that's her worst part.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Part of the problem is the mid nineties did not have a lot of great female parts. If you go back, even you look at, you go back and look at the Oscars during some of those stretches, like, could she have been Sharon Stellan's part in casino? No, you don't think so. Why?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Could which she really could have been too famous for. But she could have she could have been one of the disclosure was basically her basic instinct. Could she have been Annette Bening in American Beauty?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No. So you think she's more limited than I do? I think I feel like there was more there. She also got married to Bruce Willis. They became a giant celebrity couple and they had three kids. So that that that probably hurt the output of movies she was making at some point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Celtic City on HBO. and Max. Coming up on this podcast, I'm going to talk to our old friend Peter Schrager, what he found out at the Combine, is there draft stuff, free agent stuff, who has the bleakest situation in the league, we're hitting all that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
She stuck with Mr. Holland even after he almost ran away with a 17 year old. Still stayed there with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Tubi just is always trying to get me to rewatch it. I'm like, no, Tubi. No, not biting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You did? Tubi sucked you in? Tubi was like, just throwing the fishing rod at you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
We don't have to spend 10 minutes on mortal thoughts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And then Wesley Morris comes on to review the Oscars, to talk about the movie year we just had, and really to talk about Gene Hackman, because we had to get in that as well. Though we did a lot of Demi Morris stuff too, and then he's going to give us his favorite TV show at the end. It's all next, first our friends from ProJab. All right, taping this on a Tuesday morning, Pacific time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It's like a bad thumb in Louise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And it came around right around the same time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Oh, they had their accents. Bruce Willis had a crazy facial hair thing going. It's like, come on, Bruce Willis. So what was your favorite Demi Moore performance? before this movie? What was your number one? Because my favorites, I loved her in About Last Night, which I, as you know, I think is the first modern rom-com. But I thought she was great in that. I thought she was great in Disclosure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I think she's great in Ghost.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You don't like disclosure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I don't like that. If you're just making a random movie and you're just showing up for 11 days of shooting, it's a good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, it taught us what happens when you go to hell. Goblins come out of the street and they pull you down. They shadow goblins and that's it. You're fucking in hell from that point on. They have the code.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Roberts. Yeah. You had the five. That was impressive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Loaded, loaded year. Jesus Christ.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Holy shit. And then the next year was loaded too. And then in the mid nineties, uh, Nothing will top her turning on the lights in About Last Night because I think we've been in the dark long enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That movie has some groaner lines. You got to watch it. She's really great in it, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Haven't seen it in a while. It's really, really, really an enjoyable romp. How'd you feel about the best actor?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
the winner or the the nominees just how it played out i so here's my sports angle on chalamet great for a great career move not to win oh yeah great career move he's way better way better now next movie this happened to leo too this is oh when's he gonna win you want to get into that when's he gonna win zone because now it just helps you with the celebrity of being an actor
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like you have to be in The Revenant. He'll have to crawl out of a dead bear. Oh, my God. I have to get the shit kicked out of him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Uh, here's the thing. Can I, can I throw this theory at you? Okay. I think what happened with this Oscars run and with Chalamet in general, we always, I mean, how many pods did Sean do about who's the next big star? We've done pods about who's the next big actor in Hollywood? Are we ever going to have one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, is this ever going to happen again? Does the way the system, the way it's structured now... Does it just make it impossible because we just throw like some DC comics or Marvel suit on them after they become famous? I think what happened with him, SNL really helped. Going on college game day, the way he navigates, you could feel it in the Oscars telecast too. He was kind of in that Leo spot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They kept going to him. They kept showing him. Oh, people were mentioning him. And it just felt like it was kind of his Leo early 2000s moment. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I think he has about as high of an approval rating of an actor that we've seen in a long time. I think really since Leo, when Leo was in that aviator stage, And we were like, you know what, man, this guy is, he's handsome. Everybody likes him. He's a really good actor and he stands for the right things. He wants to work with good directors. He wants to challenge himself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I know, I know Chalamet's SAG speech didn't go over fantastic when he was talking about how he wanted to be one of the greats, but I loved it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm glad he said it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It was authentic, which is all we want from athletes, celebrities, whoever. Just be just fucking say what you want. Be yourself. Be yourself. Don't try to be some manufactured. I think people are going to like this version of me and this will help me if I appear this way. Like, I don't think he's like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Peter Schrager's here. Haven't talked to him in a while. He was just at the Combine. A lot of people are saying he was the one that broke up the Starbucks fight. I don't think you got a lot of credit for that. You were like third man in, just trying to keep peace at an Indianapolis Starbucks. Combine, crazy place. You love it. I love it. Is that your favorite week of the year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Maybe he'll turn into that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He's the guy who was waiting outside MSG for...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He liked some of the accoutrements.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He liked the spoils.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I gotta say, I think the way Leo handled his career was brilliant. No notes. I mean, just like, he studied some of the old greats. I don't need to do a shitload of interviews. There needs to still be a little mystery about me. And he kept the mystery. For better and worse. Because that also allows people to... You know, he's doing this. He's at this party. He is a pussy wrangler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like, that's an actual phrase used with Leo. But yeah, that guy's his pussy wrangler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I like it. Who else? I mean, there's been De Niro for a while. He had a real mystery and then something snapped in the 90s. And we went the other way with it. What do you mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, he just started doing a ton of movies. He started going on SNL. Part of De Niro, like De Niro is this mythical figure. It's like, who is this guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But does he seem any more known to you? No, he's actually ironically a terrible interviewer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So wait, because I have a couple other things I want to hit with you. So your best actor was who?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You can know somebody who didn't get nominated. Yeah. Who is the best male performance for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Forget it. He's whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I haven't seen it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, yeah, that's true. A lot of hotel room carpets. And I want to talk about Hackman and I want to talk quickly about White Lotus. So any other Oscar thoughts? Because we're going to take a break.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I mean, we can do this now. Okay. I just think we've been talking about the Oscars for a while. I think sometimes things morph over time culturally. You know, like when we were talking about All-Star Weekend a couple weeks ago on the podcast, I think it was, maybe it was Vanner. I can't remember. I'm sorry. I can't remember who said it, but about whether it just had a cultural expiration date.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And yeah, things can just shift and yeah, things can shift and change. I think about people used to care about regular season baseball and now they just care about their own teams. Like as you get older, you just see like things sometimes run their course. And with the Oscars, Whether people care about who wins the way they did in 1982, I just don't know if they do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Especially the younger generation. The younger generation was probably like, did Chalamet win? My kids, I have a 17-year-old, 19-year-old who are pretty sports culture in the mix, at least a little bit because of me. They didn't care about the Oscars. But when we were kids, I'm older than you, but both of our generations, like we really cared who won.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And I just, I wonder if that's just shifted now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But part of it is like the NBA issue, right? When they talk about face of the league and my whole case is like, when somebody really matters, we won't have this conversation because we'll know that person mattered. Like if there's another Titanic, there's another big ass movie or there's another big ass star with an awesome performance, people are going to care if that person or that movie wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
This year didn't have a movie like that. And it's always going to suffer when that's the case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So we were making less movies. There was no confusion between, is this something I watch at home on my TV or do I go to the theater to see it? We had way less TV competition with the high-end stuff. We had all the best actors were just doing movies. And now it's like you might see a really great actor just do a TV show instead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So it just feels like it's splintered in a whole bunch of different ways. I still care. I still care about the history and how current stuff relates to it. But I think I'm like an anomaly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, we don't count.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Conclave supporter. Okay. You don't like it? I thought the twist was stupid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I was more interested in... Who did you want to win? I just like being in the world as they try to figure it out and undermine each other. It was just a classic old school movie. I didn't feel like it needed a twist.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I've heard this case. I just personally didn't work for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They are like scorn lovers multiplied by 100. They raised the season ticket prices this week. Everybody goes nuts again. This is the angriest fan base that we've had in a while. And here's Kyrie, who's, by the way, they're putting crazy minutes on him. He's in the 2010 draft. or 2011 draft. He's been in the league for a while. He's a point guard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Like we did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
We did Rocky for the rewatchables that went up last night. And Rocky won Best Picture.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
We did three and four. Rocky is now a prequel for Rocky III. That was part of my case for not doing it. Rocky III is the best movie of the 80s. I agree. I mean, sort of. Rocky wins. All the president's men, network and taxi driver don't win. And then you go to the best actor. And it's just you're just looking at it like, oh, my God. And granted, it was almost 50 years ago. Like, oh, my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, so it was Jordan Schultz and Ian Rappaport, two NFL insiders, for lack of a better word. And it would have been funnier if it was because Rappaport made some sort of crack about, your dad cost Seattle the Sonics. And that was like, it was like way more deep seated, but it just seemed like some insider kerfuffle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Look at the movies we were making. Go back to 2014. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, 12 Years a Slave, Captain Phillips, Dallas Buyers Club, Gravity, Her, Nebraska, The Wolf of Wall Street.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Right. Let's take a quick break. I want to talk about Hackman. Okay. Gene Hackman died earlier this week and he was old. It wasn't like a big surprise. Hopefully the details of how he died aren't too awful, but I have a feeling they might not be great. But he was somebody that had this awesome, awesome, awesome career forever. And then just walked away and didn't, we never kind of saw him again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He almost did the Johnny Carson going to Malibu and I'm out. That's it. I'm done. Um, there was nobody really like him that I can think of. It's like a, he's a true one-on-one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And, you know, even like we, in the rewatchables, we've done, I think, I think we did like eight Hackman movies, something like that, where, and you would never think like he would be one of the more rewatchable actors, but he just over and over again, we're popping the stuff. And what was interesting was,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
watching as his career evolved was how the other actors would talk about what it was like to kind of be in a movie with them and it was like almost like you're going against them and it's I was trying to think of like how many actors are discussed that way where it's like I'm with Hackman gotta raise my game today I gotta raise my game this week like he reached that part of it too there was just nobody like him but you could go way back like
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Downhill Racer, which I think Fantasy and I are going to do on Rewatchables at some point. It's an awesome movie. It's probably the first great modern sports movie, even though it's not totally modern, but he's even great in that. And that was, what, 1969? So there wasn't a career quite like this. Will we ever have another Gene Hackman?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah. I'll take it. You're tapping into horny hacks already? Yeah. That horny side? Yeah, we talk about that on the Rewatchable sometimes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
The big thing I'm looking at, and there's already been some buzz about the Giants trading up I don't know. Do you feel like it was true that the Giants could have had Stafford and they had the draft pick compensation? Rich Eisen reported that yesterday. Do we feel like that is 100% accurate that the Rams were just ready to trade Stafford to the Giants or no?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It's like 58 years old. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Um, well, but the other piece of that was it somehow allowed him to play all these different parts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That he could be like, he could be a basketball coach. He could be in a buddy cop movie. He could be the bad guy in a buddy cop movie. He could be somebody that's, you know, running a submarine. He could be somebody who's the president.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah. He could be somebody who's like trying to figure out the heist and he's in charge of the heist. Or he could be the person who is like working on the heist. He could be the sports movie coach. Like he could do literally anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Him and Jack Cates in 48 Hours are my favorite cop characters that are also completely indefensible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No Way Out was like that. That was another one where he's just kind of sleazy, right? But sleazy, powerful, and you could just kind of see it. The other thing with him that I thought was cool, you could just throw him in other great parts and he makes sense. You could put him in The Godfather. He's just, just be Tom Hagen. You're going to be Tom Hagen instead of Duvall.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
And it's like, yeah, Hackman would have been fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Could have pulled it off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Could he have... Nicholson's all-time incredible in Chinatown, but could the movie have survived if it was Gene Hackman in Chinatown? Probably. It still would have worked. It would have been fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah. That's the thing. And that's why I think he's so unique because it's almost like a basketball player that could... could play like a bunch of different positions and guard a different bunch of it. And it's just like, oh, when we have this guy, we basically can do anything we want.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
How about, are you a heartbreakers person? Oh. Sigourney Waver and Jennifer Love Hewitt. Horny Hacks is out in full bloom.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That's how I got to know him, by the way. That was my first Gene Hackman movie. That was my first Gene Hackman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Right. Like, could he have done Liam Neeson and taken? I think he could have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
So he never did like Tommy Lee Jones in Blown Away just as a crazy Irish terrorist blowing up shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, because I would never think he was, I would never think he would not be in control when I see Gene Hackman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, you're right. I totally get what you mean. But what the other part is, he didn't bring...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Gene Hackman the famous celebrity person into the role that kind of baggage that some other like I would see Dustin Hoffman or Nicholson and you're always thinking it's Nicholson you're always thinking it's Dustin Hoffman this is a good distinction too Hackman could kind of blend into the different parts and where it's like oh I love Gene Hackman but then you'd kind of like Enemy of the State's a good example he's Gene Hackman
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But you're watching. He just kind of blends in and out. Now, all of a sudden, he's this weird guy. I don't know what he's up to. And is he going to help Will Smith or not? You kind of just forget he's Gene Hackman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Oh, yeah. I mean, just everybody talks about it after like, whoa. Yeah, that was I went to grad school when I did acting with Gene Hackman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, I think it's professionalism. Just going onto the set, knowing exactly who you are, like real confidence, a little bit of a charisma. You're not going to back down anybody. I think he had some size to him too, which I think is unusual for Hollywood.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, no. Probably like a second or third?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Your crazy point is good because I wouldn't have wanted to see Gene Hackman in The Shining.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I just wouldn't have bought it. I just don't think it works.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
What's interesting is he could play the president. He could have played the president's conniving chief of staff. he could have played, he basically could have played every part in the white house, could have played the vice president who doesn't like the president. He could have played the, the guy, the military general who works for the president.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
They just go, go through anybody that is involved with the president and he could probably play every part. Whereas like if Nick, when Nicholson's the president, You're kind of like, ah, it's Jack Nicholson. Like even when Jack Nicholson is in broadcast news and he's good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But you could argue Hackman might've been better on that part, right? You know, you know what's interesting? Because he still feels like Jack Nicholson in broadcast news. I'm not buying him as like a network anchor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, whatever he was. No, no, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He could like the Robert Prosky part. Like he was like working with Holly Hunter. Yeah, he could have been that guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, the other thing, you know, and obviously we've done almost 375 rewatchables movies at this point. Part of, part of what becomes somebody's legacy is the rewatchability of some of the movies they made. And he just had such a great instinct for this guy. And then sometimes like he didn't, he thought Hoosiers was going to be a bomb.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That ends up being the biggest basketball movie anyone's ever made. Right. And lives on forever and ever. He was, he was pissed the whole time he was making it. He was like, nobody's going to see this shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah, I think it was because it took him so long to realize, just turn the ball to Jimmy Chitwood. Clear out. Clear out. Don't overthink this. Stop running plays. We don't need four passes anymore. We have a generational star on our team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It was one of the last ones anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
One great thing about him he's just in a movies with most of the great stars from like three different generations of movies. Yeah. Right. He, I think Denzel might be, I'd be interested to see what the list is, but we always talk about six degrees of Kevin Bacon and it's like one degree of Gene Hackman. You could just go through Nick. He's worked with like Redford. Like it doesn't matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You go 50 years or 45 years, however long he was. And he's going to be in a movie. Like it'll be like, like Travolta was paying homage to him. And it was like, Hackman made so many movies. What was it? Get Shorty was his Travolta movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Yeah. But you go through and you'd be like, just shout an actor out. Did they work with Gene Hackman? And they probably did. Shout an actress out. They probably did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He did a movie with Richard Gere, Julie Christie, Kate Capshaw and Denzel Washington and J.T. Walsh. Can you name the movie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Richard Gere, Julie Christie, Kate Capshaw, and Denzel Washington as Arnold Billings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
It was Lumet Power.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Tooby, throw that shit on the main screen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, it's later. It's 86. 86, okay. It was right when Hollywood was like, hey, Richard Gere, what's going on here?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Why are we making all these, why are all these bombing? Are you not a movie star anymore?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Well, this raises the second... Well, Richard Gere's too handsome. That's part of the problem. Yeah. But we've talked about Richard Gere when he taps into an internal affairs and officer gentleman. That's Richard Gere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Hackman... As the guy in Pretty Woman would have been really interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
That's the one they wouldn't make, but that's the more realistic one. That's the more realistic one where he's like an older, dirty fucking guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Then they tried Whore on the Street. That didn't work. They just kept trying titles. Just kept going for stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He's making so many movies. Anyway, Gene Hackman, first bout Hall of Famer. Give me your one minute review of White Lotus through three episodes. Are you caught up?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Wow. You're into the pit that much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm not. Should I be watching? People keep telling me to watch it. Let me tell you. It's like ER crossed with 24.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
You know what? How many takes do they need to do? Say no more. I'm going to watch. You don't need to sell me anymore. This is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm going to watch it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Oh, I'm so happy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I never gave up on the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He was on that, what was that movie with the train, the crazy train? I thought he was on that movie that turned into a TV show, Snowpiercer. Snowpiercer train?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
No, he's in the TV version, I think. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. You're right. You say so. I'm glad he's back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
All right. Wesley Morris. Great to see you as always.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti as well. And don't forget Celtic City. You can catch up on the first episode on Max, new rewatchables, Rocky, Prestige TV podcast, episode three, White Lotus. Check out theringer.com, a great website. And I will see you on Thursday on this podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I mean, the Giants are so stupid. What's the point of trading for Stafford? What, are you going to win the Super Bowl in the next three years? There's nothing. You're going to give up a possible starter slash all-pro in the second round because you want to go 7-10? What's the alternative?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
I'm bumping them up to 11 wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Sure. So that's a wash, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Come on. They have no chance. I would be going the other way and trying to trade guys to get more picks and trying to reboot it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
He's playing the last six weeks, 38.7 minutes, which led the league. So they're throwing this huge burden on a guy who hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr., And they're talking about how they rebuilt themselves. This was about a title window. They trade for Davis. He gets hurt in the first game. They put this crazy load on Kyrie. He breaks down. It's after the trade deadline.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But this is the point. Then talk yourself into Cam Ward if you think he can be a top three pick. I mean, so this is why I brought up Stafford because the stuff has started today about they're going to leapfrog to one. They're going to take them one. It just feels like Cam Ward's going first in this draft. He very well might. It doesn't mean he's the best player. It doesn't mean it makes sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
But there's three teams right now who just have no idea who their quarterback is going to be. The Raiders have the best chance to probably stumble into one because they have all the cap space. The Giants, I don't know how they get one that actually make my case that I just laid out. How are you going to make the playoffs? Like you're better off betting on a guy who maybe can become the guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
Definitely be cheap. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris
The Jets fans didn't like him. Can we throw them in? Can we throw in how he looked last year where he had no legs and didn't want to get hit and was terrible?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Even college, G League, Europe. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Phoenix and Philly. I think it's been a really, really crazy, weird season. But I think when you see all of these teams that are either falling apart down the stretch, throwing away second halves, resting guys or sitting guys out for the season with fake injuries, like foot contusion. Back stiffness.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We've never been better at fake injuries. This is another case for me that we should be at 70 games. Why do we need this extra month of 12 teams not giving a shit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I was amazed he played 30 games. And then they had the list of all the games he's played. I mean, when you look at the Zion and Ja, that combo and that draft and how few those guys have actually been, how few times those guys have actually been available in games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He has not done a podcast since... I think beginning of October, something like that. So he had a lot of takes to get off. And I had a blast. We went for two hours. It's super fun. Zach Lowe is back. He's here. Coming up first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, my old friend Zach Lowe is here. He is joining The Ringer and Spotify. We're back, baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Pretty incredible for how much time we spent talking about that lottery coming up, how important it was, how transformative it could be. And then, you know, either of those guys could stay on the court.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And the vibes are, are off. I think, you know, people have been writing about it, but I think the teams that have been interacting with them and playing them are kind of like, ah, you know, same thing with Phoenix. You could feel it early on with that Phoenix season. I think to me, the Philly thing was not surprising to me at all. Um, I went under on them and the over-unders.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I didn't like the Paul George site signing and was trying to be careful about how I framed it. I thought it was the wrong city for him. I thought it was super risky. I knew how they had to do it, but I wasn't surprised how it played out. I was, I'm still stunned by Phoenix and you know, it's one of those things you look back and you're like, how did we get this so wrong?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Why did we think like Budenholzer was going to come in and unleash this awesome offense? And it's been the opposite. Why did we misread the chemistry thing? Why did we discount role players? I still don't have an answer because if you're doing the all NBA exercises, Booker and Durant credential wise, are kind of in the mix for a third team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And yet I don't know if I can do it because of how bad that team's been week, week to week to week. I don't have an answer. So you're watching this from, from home. Are you like, what would you have written if you could have written a son's piece in January?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, if you're going one to 10, how close-knit does a team look when you're watching them in person? And 10 would be any team that Tim Duncan was on where he had his arm around every single player on his team during every timeout and every foul stoppage. And that was just the feel-good, we love each other kind of era. That was one of the reasons I'll defend Tim Duncan to the death.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
His team's always had... that tightness, that closeness, you could see it when you went to the games. And the Suns were like a one and a half or two. I was shocked. They just looked like vessels passing in the night. Timeouts, nobody talking, people shooting foul shots, just five guys standing in different things, like all the check marks of things you don't want. And I think you and I are
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I hate using the word defenders, but I think we've been pretty pro KD and his legacy and how great he's been over the last almost two decades. It gets tough when you look at these last few years. I think it's going to become part of how people remember him, that he was on just a series of unhappy teams. He still has a chance to fix it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Maybe this summer, wherever he goes, maybe after his max count. He's already talked about how he'll take a minimum contract to end his career on a good team. But it's not nothing. This has been four years of, hmm, what's wrong with KD's team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think KD has a legitimate argument for best scoring forward in the history of the league. When you look at the peak years he had, plus the totality of all the seasons, things like that. You mentioned all the what-ifs, though. Just one thing, and then we'll move on. The Seattle thing, I think, is a bigger what-if than 2016. If that team just stays in Seattle...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And that was, I think that should have been a top seven or eight market just from an owner spending money. They had all this money moving in from the tech world that was already there and that was gonna keep getting bigger. And I just think there's this alternate universe where Howard Schultz doesn't sell The Sonics stay there. And Durant's still in Seattle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And he's the most beloved athlete in the history of the city. Or at least since Ken Griffey. But he's in the running for most beloved Seattle athlete ever. And I really think that's a parallel universe that could exist. He never leaves. That team grows together. They spend money. They win titles. And we're discussing him in a completely different way. And I think that's real.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We launched a podcast that is called The Zach Lowe Show. It's going to be Monday next week. There's a YouTube channel that's already up, and you're going to be doing a bunch of stuff for us, and I couldn't be more excited about it. This is a great week. Great to see you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, it's going to happen, especially after the Celtics got six billion plus, which was the number Adam Silver wanted the whole time. I talked about it last summer. They wanted to get to six. Now they can get six for the two expansion teams. I'm not positive who the two teams are going to be. I think it's 100% Vegas and 90% Seattle. We'll see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Um, but I'm really hoping in Seattle and if it's not one of the expansion teams, I think there's a couple of teams that could potentially be franchise movers. We're going to take a break and come back and play. Uh, we had to do a gimmick on your return to the pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Now it's time for today's player bundles segment presented by State Farm. So it's tough to crown the best play in football history. No one can deny the magic when the right two players work together to pull off the unexpected. I hate admitting this and I was at the game and it almost broke my heart and I'm still bummed out about it. But the helmet catch,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think has to be considered the best play in football history. The Patriots tried to go 19 and 0. The Giants, Eli's running around. There's nine holding penalties on the play. They don't call any of them. Chucks it up into the middle of the field. And David Tyree jumps up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Makes a catch that probably would have been the most incredible catch of the year anyway, because he catches the ball against his helmet and it somehow doesn't get dislodged when he lands. Two guys are on him. Keeps the drive going. The crowd made a sound that I can't even describe. And I think that's probably the craziest play in football history.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Offensively, defensively, you go Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl against Seattle, I think would be the leading contender for that. But you know what else is better together? than David Tyree and Eli Manning. I can't believe I'm praising them. Bundling your home and auto insurance with the personal price plan from State Farm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Availability, amount of discounts and savings. and eligibility vary by state. Hey, before we do our gimmick, can we talk briefly about Lakers-Houston last night? Because I watched the whole game. I was really interested in Houston and how... they would play the Lakers and what a weird matchup that is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And like the amount of athletes they have, could they basically just kind of overrun the Lakers a little, a little like what the bulls did the game I went to when the bulls just tried basically ran them off the court and the Lakers fell asleep and they let it happen. And it was like, well, what, what would this look like?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
What will this look like as they whip all of these athletes at the Lakers for two and a half straight hours? And my fear in the back of my head for the Rockets was this is going to be a close game in the last eight minutes and the Lakers are just going to out-execute them. And I'm not going to love the shots the Rockets took. There's going to be those mismatches.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
The toughest thing with the Lakers now is you have those three guys that And the third guy is Reeves, who is a guy that on most teams, I think is now like a 23 to 25 points a game guy who can not only create his own shot, but create shots for other people. And now you're putting your worst defender on him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And you're just constantly trying to, it's like whack-a-mole trying to figure out who do you stop? And the Rockets lost. And I don't think it was an accident. I think if those teams played in a playoff series, that would be the result. What was your take watching it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Houston is still the number two. They have a, as we're taping this, they have a one loss, basically a one and a half game lead over Denver and the Lakers are kind of surging toward them. But the two spot means you're looking at golden state, Minnesota, the Clippers, unless Memphis drops down there. And I don't,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I was worried you might just sit out the whole year and we wouldn't get you for the awards, the playoffs, anything. But I think to me, the catalyst was the Luka trade. That was the moment where you were like, oh my God, I need a platform. Give me a platform right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I just feel like Houston, when I watch them, as good as the record's been, and I've enjoyed them, and I think they're in the running for league pass MVPs this year, I feel like they're a year away. They're a move away. The move probably involves Shangoon or Green, but they don't have that, like, I got this guy in offense, which is why the Booker option would have been so interesting for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't know what they do, but don't you think like one year from now, I'm really interested to see where they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
No. And it's, I feel the same way. Every time I watch them, there's three or four moments where I just kind of step out of the watching experience and go, how did this happen? How did we let this happen? How did we let this happen to the Lakers? What were some of the other big things that, you know, you were gone for four fifths of the season. What were some of the other stuff you wished?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Oh man, I wish I had a column or, oh man, I wish I had a podcast. I would love to chime in on this. What were some of the big stories?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Or Hartenstein. Now, the OKC with the Hartenstein piece of it, because he's always been really good at the foul line and he's always been good in those four on three situations. So when he's out there, it gets tougher. But I still feel like, hey, Jalen Williams, can you beat us? is going to be a strategy. Chet's a little different because Chet always gets his points in the flow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They're not like, oh, let's run our three Chet plays. But Jalen Williams, they need. They need him to beat guys off the dribble. They need him to do that little pull-up from 15 feet. And he's really good, but that's a different spotlight. And we haven't seen it. We didn't see it in the NBA Cup. We didn't see it last year in the playoffs. We just haven't seen him do it on a big stage yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I think the problem with the NBA cup is it was cool as it was happening, but now we have two years in the bank and it's meaningless. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Like the bucks don't even have remotely the same team anymore. They've, You know, they're keeping their fingers crossed on Kyle Kuzma corner threes. They don't know when Dame's coming back. They're a team that's going in the wrong direction. And it doesn't matter that they win the NBA Cup. I don't know how to fix that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's the nightmare scenario for the Lakers. And I'm in the camp of don't get sucked into, oh, the Lakers expertise, veteran, like two scores. This is the kind of team, like when I, when I saw OKC on Sunday night, play the Clippers and they were missing a couple of guys. So they had to play Dort and Caruso and Wallace together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it was like, Jesus Christ, this is the most terrifying perimeter defense I've ever seen in my life. Uh, those three together, they have all these looks. I think the Celtics are the same way where the Celtics can, because of Porzingis and Horford, and then they can have like the, all of a sudden there's four white guys out there and all of them can shoot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
All of a sudden they're playing double bigs. All of a sudden Tatum is playing stretch five. Like they have different looks, but the OKC, uh, the wrinkles they have to me are the second biggest reason that you're going to pick them to win the NBA title. If you're going to pick them and I'm about to give you the number one reason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I do whatever I want. I just made up these rules 10 minutes ago. I'm going to the apex superstar category. Okay. And I'm taking SGA because, um, You know, we have a week and a half left and Jokic, who's one of my favorite players, non-Celtics probably ever, having the best statistical season he's ever had. And I think he's carried a massive load.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And at this point, I still think I'm voting for SGA. I mean, the odds, it's not a controversial pick. The odds are... way, way up there for them. But the piece that's interesting to me heading into the playoffs, it isn't just can OKC win the title. It isn't just can Sam Presti, who's, you know, done a pretty incredible job for almost two decades here. Is this all going to finally work out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Are we in an 86 Celtics with also having the number two pick in the draft coming up scenario of, holy shit, not only is this the best team in the league, but they also have this asset and all these young players and what the hell are we going to do? They're in that zone. But for SGA... There's no zone, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
The only case is the Celts after they won the 86 title with bias coming for those 48 hours before he tragically died, which recovered in Celtic City. uh, in episode five. That's the only other thing I could think of where they went 67 and 15. There are 50 and one at home.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They had a three time MVP and they were adding somebody who worst case scenario was going to be as good as, you know, in that Barkley, Carl Malone thing. That's the only thing I could think of. Here's the case for SGA. Why I took them here. If they win the title and they just kick everybody's ass and they end up finishing, uh, I don't know, can they get to, what, 69, 70 wins for the season?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They end up being like an 84, 85, 86-win team, which would put them on the short, short list, with him at the lead. on top of the fact that he's having one of the greatest offensive seasons in the history of the guard position. Like it's, it's up there with any Oscar season. I talked about this a couple of weeks ago, any Jordan season, any Kobe season, like pick a great guard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He's either doing better than one of their best seasons or he's right there. And then if he just keeps that rolling through the playoffs and, And we finished mid June and we're like, holy shit, the Thunder just went 86 and 16 and SGA averaged 35 in the playoffs. And this is now Michael Jordan. I think he's the most intriguing guy to me in either conference. He has the most at stake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I hate nobody's talking about these guys enough and nobody's giving these guys enough credit conversation on talk shows because I feel like we've talked about OKC a lot all over the place. It's just the way the infrastructure is going to go. They're always going to talk about LeBron and the Lakers and the big ass teams a little bit more. Just how it goes. I actually feel like we haven't
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
totally talked about how great SGA is as a scorer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I feel like we're like a couple conversations, videos, breakdowns short because watching it in person and watching all the moves he has and watching the yo-yo shit he does and how helpless defenders are against him when they know what he's trying to do and how he can get to the rim, how he uses contact, how every team thinks he's getting all the calls and they're pissed off the whole game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's just, it's really a master performance. He's really great. And I think going against him in a finals is fucking terrifying, no matter what round, but especially like for the Celtics. And they have the perfect team to stop him, right? They have wings with size. They have weight. They have holiday. They have rim protection with Porzingis. It's everything you'd want.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I still think he'd get 35 a game against him. I don't think it matters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
How did he create the space?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Right. It's so funny how it's evolved because when I was going to see him as a rookie on the Clippers and it was like, ah, this guy's kind of Rondo-y. I could see him like a, you know, elite defensive player and a good playmaker. Like he's really interesting player. He's definitely going to be really good. But this is like, he's one of the best guards I've ever seen in person ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't, I don't know how long that list is and I'll probably have to figure it out at some point, but it's, it's on the short list of the, the best, most impactful guys. Like the Clipper game I went to Sunday, he couldn't buy a shot. Just was one of those. The ball was rolling around the rim. The ball was hitting the back. Like he was getting all the shots he wanted. They just weren't going in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it was kind of shocking to watch. It was like, Oh my God. Shay's not getting bounces? He always gets bounces. Anyway. All right. We're on a slow pace. We've only done two. What's your next guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You try to destroy me. Like OKC is going to try to destroy the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't know. I just think they like... They've been number one seed for like a month. I don't really understand why their defense went sideways. I'm with you on Mobley. There's going to be... I think he's their most important guy in a Celtics series. More important than Mitchell, anyone else they have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And there's going to be two or three times in that series where he has an open three in the last four minutes of a game they need. And I'm not sure if it's going to go in or not. And it might and it might not. But that's going to be the thing. If he's hitting threes and doing all the other stuff and looking like late 90s KG on top of the three-point thing, then they could win the title.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But there's no question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You know, I'm going to continue that conversation with my next pick because I have some thoughts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'm going to grab in the defensive stud category. Okay. Lou Dort. Wow. Okay. I haven't done all my defensive player of the year work, and I'm not going to say I think it should be this guy. I really want to study it because I think it's really interesting that there's no clear-cut guy. I'll just say this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Lou Dort is the best defensive player I've watched this season in multiple games, and I've been shocked by some of the shit he's done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
What he did to Jalen Brown in the game in Boston was startling. And we were arguing on Sunday's pod about how tall he is because I was watching him stand next to other dudes. And I swear he looks like he's 6'2". Maybe he's like 6'3", whatever he is. But he guards everybody. And the thing with him that you know how... good of a defensive player he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
People get actively bummed out when he's on them. He had a game, I think, a week or two weeks ago when he just was like, I'm just going to take out Desmond Bain today. Desmond Bain went one for 12. He destroyed Brown in the Boston game. I went to that Clipper game and he could guard everybody in the Clippers. I've been to two OKC Clipper games where Harden just has this look like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
This is the worst two and a half hours of my life, all these dudes, but especially Dort. And I just think, right, I know Daniels has been amazing. So good, by the way. The hands, the steals, the poke checks, the athleticism. He's won games with his defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Wait, can I say one thing on Daniels? Yeah. Because I completely agree. And obviously not allowed to bet on the awards. I always want to mention that. But I always look to see, like, am I missing something? Like, Dort was 26-1 last week. And I'm like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I haven't done all my work yet, but if you just put a gun to my head right now and said pick a defensive player of the year, I think I'd pick Dort because he was the best defender I've seen. I felt the same way about Daniels. I thought he was going to be favored for most improved player, but it's Cade. Daniels is plus 110. I'm not shocked that Cade's better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He was the number one pick in the draft and he has a better coach and whatever. Daniels was thrown into the DeJounte Murray trade, basically. You know, he was one of the prizes, but it wasn't like, oh my God, they traded Dyson Daniels. It was like, I don't know what that guy is. And now you watch him and he's like an absolute keeper.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I don't know why he wouldn't be the most improved player of the year. I don't get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, they missed him in that Clipper game I went to. Not having him on Kawhi, you could feel the difference because that's 6'8 type of guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, it's, this is why, you know, sometimes this happens. You have to pick a player and it's probably not Lou Dort, but whatever OKC is doing defensively, it almost needs like, you need like a defensive players of the year award just to capture the fucking havoc. And they start immediately and the teams, you can see it in their faces really like, oh my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
This really, you're going to defend me 90 feet. Yeah, we are actually, we're going to make your life miserable for two and a half hours. And then Wallace is going to go out and Caruso is going to come in. Oh, Hey, how about, we're gonna throw some blue door on you. That team's a nightmare. Make your next pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Ah, he was on my list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
There was a lot of stuff to work with there. Now, I think Mobley and Tatum are in the finals of... Oh, I didn't realize you were kind of a bully deep down. Both of those guys, I think, have asserted themselves in ways that we always wondered, is it in there? And Tatum, who's been awesome, right? He's been one of the top three or four players in the league for most of the decade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
The NFL Draft is in four weeks. Don't forget to listen to Todd McShay's show or subscribe to his newsletter because he has some great, great, great draft stuff. Check it out. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables last night. It was Good Will Hunting, the episode that we did live in Boston last Thursday at House of Blues. So much fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, I'm not banking on Mitchell Robinson. No, you can't. Celtics are a nightmare matchup for Towns. There's so many different ways to attack him and mess with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, it's been interesting because there's been some Celtic games where they haven't wanted to tip anything at all. And then there's been other games when they've tried to send a message. And that was one of the messages. I like the Towns pick. I don't really know what he is, but this is going to be the best version ever of it, right? He's never going to be better than he is this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He's never going to be in a better situation as a stretch five slash flimsy rim protector on a really good team. So we'll see. I actually have been shocked by how well that trade worked out. I think if you had told me what's going to be a disaster, Paul George on the Sixers or Towns on the Knicks and had like a betting line on it, I would have said minus 160 Paul George.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Top five, whatever rankings you want to do. But he's in there. He's first team all NBA multiple times. There was that small piece of like... Does he really want to stick it to the other team? Does he want to eviscerate the guy he's going against? Does he want to send a message? Does he want to bully somebody? Does he want to take offense to how he's being defended?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
but I think there would have been some towns action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
What are we going to do without podcast P? Um, all right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
On the line? Some good legacies on the line. There's going to be a lot of legacy talk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
This is it. He has to come through tonight. I think the Tatum legacy case is by far the most interesting of all the legacies, except for the Laker guys. And I don't want to take the Laker guys. I'll leave them to you. The Tatum thing coming back from last year where he doesn't win either award. And then he goes to the Olympics, misses the first two practices, just had a kid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
ends up not playing, buried on the bench, and then his transformation this year, and if he actually comes through into the much tougher playoff competition this year and becomes the guy that we've been watching the last couple months, I think there's a real edge to him. I've been so impressed. Look, I know the Celtics have been locked in the two-seed forever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I've been so impressed with how they've looked the last month or so. And I know when teams get locked into playoff spots, they have a tendency to drift one way or another, or you can have a tendency to overreact to what you're seeing. I'm seeing a really mentally tough team. And I think Missoula is fanatical about...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
this whole season about what it's like to defend a title, what it takes, what kind of mental edge you need, how you have to have a bullseye, how you have to have a chip on your shoulder. I think he's been motivated them a lot. I think he's been really challenging them. And Tatum has been the guy that he's challenged the most and Tatum does the most
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And now he's in a situation where if they win the title, this is no 1A, 1B situation anymore. He's the best guy in this team. And he's one of the best three to four guys in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
No, I'm just saying there was like 1A, 1B stuff last year with those guys. They were a pairing. They're not really a pairing anymore. He's the best guy on the team. And if he rips through and they win back-to-back and he's by far the best guy... Now it's a different conversation about where he is career-wise, where he is historically.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
People start looking at his decade, the All-NBAs, all the playoffs. And there's some real great stuff sitting for him now. So I just wanted to capture the moment there, Zach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I don't know whether it was, you know, not winning the awards during the championship season last year or what happened in the Olympics or just age, the fact that he's 27. But I personally see... a little bit of an edge to him that I don't think was there last year. And I think it's really helped the Celtics team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, there's a strength thing with him. Remember like LeBron in the late 2000s when we were like, he's got to get stronger. He's got to start posting up people. He's got to be more physical. And then there was some moment, probably when he got to Cleveland again after the Miami thing, where all of a sudden physically he just seemed imposing. And you could feel it and you could feel the shift.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it's like, you can't guard LeBron with that guy anymore. A little of that's happening with Tatum when they try to put smaller guys on him. He just is bullying people and he's really strong now. I've been really impressed. I think he's, I think he's checked every box for me. I was worried last summer, you know, his three point shot was going sideways. He's benched in the Olympics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It was like, oh my God, where's this going? And instead it went the best possible way. What's your next pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Oh, I thought you were going someone else. Jesus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
No, there's plenty of time for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You look at like, I think they're 15 and one in their last 16 playing for nothing. They're the two seed. They've been the two seed forever, but there's an edge to them now. And they go on the road. I feel like they're, they have that little swagger that I think you need on a back-to-back team. I think he's a big reason for it. And then Moby, same thing. Like just seems like he's,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Giannis just putting up 30, 12, and 6 every game. And it was like, how did I just watch?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Not a pushover anymore. Anybody else in that group with those two that dug down and found something that you were surprised by?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I guess Reeves would be another one, right? That had a little more in there than maybe we were expecting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,, ,,,,,, ,,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
,,,,,,, as a human being. Like, shit like that. Shit that goes beyond basketball. I just think he is an all-timer. I hope he keeps coming to games after he retires. He has moved into the fabric of the team in the city in a real way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
No, you don't. All right. We got to, we got to move with some pace now. What's your next pick? Why don't you take Trey Young somewhere? Let's talk about him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You've taken two crossroads guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
It's a delight. And it's why you do the Jimmy Butler trade, which I described as not a Hail Mary, but throwing in a double coverage on third and 14 and hoping your guy makes a play. They had to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I would have put Kaminga in it too if I had to. If it was a choice between the first round pick or Kaminga, I would have thrown Kaminga in there. It's a great pick. I have nothing to add.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
you know, the Utah thing wasn't, he, he had some good moments there and it got a little rocky near the end. And then he goes to Cleveland and it was a weird trade. They gave up a lot. And then the next couple of years, people like me, and maybe even you were talking about, he eventually wants to ends up in New York, which I'm a hundred percent sure is true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Um, and then the next door closes with Brunson, Brooklyn falls apart. Um, And it becomes one of those situations where it's like, maybe this is the best spot for me. I really think that he probably went through that thought exercise and landed there. Like we have really good players. Maybe I could be on a championship team. How do I elevate these guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And, you know, we talked about how he slipped a little since the all-star break, but the, the game the other night was a good example of like, he still has that that think to him, you know, that when you're in a playoff series, we're in a game six, game seven, I need somebody who can go toe to toe with whoever the best guy is in another team. I think he has it. And he has a chance to,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
To now not only be a first team all NBA guy, but to maybe play in the finals. I think he's a great guy. I've always heard good things about him. He does a lot of good charitable stuff and seems like a good teammate. I think the Cavs guys all love him. And I'm just happy he's in that moment because I like him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Okay. All right, you're up. I can't believe we haven't done hot seat coach yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Well, we could do... Why don't we just do fat... Let's each do a hot seat coach. We don't have to talk about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Oh, all right. That's fair. I think the seat... It's like an inferno. I don't know if it's hot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't see how he comes back. I just think this is who Ishby is. I think he just every year is like, all right, none of this was my fault again. Who can I blame? I have tips for this category. Oh, my God. Yeah, I sure do. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Defensively, They're pretty easy to score on. Offensively, the numbers are great and the Brunson Towns thing is legendary, all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I just feel like from a creativity standpoint, the stuff you mentioned earlier and I've been talking about all year and the Knicks fans don't want to hear it, but I just don't understand why you're trading all that stuff for bridges and then you don't give a shit about using them ever. I think there's a version of this team That is way scarier to me as a Celtics fan than they've tapped into.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah. Well, I, I, you know, when I went with that Clipper OKC game last week, And I was watching the intensity and the physicality of it. And it kind of helped frame where my brain was for the playoffs because I feel like whatever competitiveness I was watching that game and how high level it was. So I left the game and I'm driving home and I'm like, how many teams could actually get to that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't think he's used the bench enough. I think he's played the guys way too many minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We both like Tibbs. I think there's a real question of whether his coaching style can be sustainable for nine months if you're trying to win a title, and we're going to find out. Brunson stepped on somebody's foot. You can't say it was the minutes that caused it, but I don't think it's sustainable how he coaches, and I don't think he's been creative enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I do think... Can I quibble with the Minutes thing too? Because it's those two things together that I think are the biggest red flags.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. Prestige TV pod. I did White Lotus episode seven. Recap for that. And that is on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel as well as a video podcast on Spotify. We've been putting a ton of video pods up. on Spotify, including today's guest, Zach Lowe. We announced late Sunday night that he is going to be joining The Ringer and Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Counter. He has awesome guys on offense. You and I could have done that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He's on the hot seat for me. If they lose to that weird Bucks team in round one, or they get absolutely smoked by the Celtics in round two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Or do you say he's taken them as far as they could go? Well, we'll find out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
What's your next pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it's interesting that the Clippers are one of the teams, right? We don't know what's going to happen with the West. Memphis is still in the middle of the pack in the playoff thing, but they might be the eighth seed by the time we actually finish the season. It's going to be roulette left and right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So I'm going to make that hot seat wild card. So we had hot seat coach and that was supposed to be hot seat player, but we'll make it a wild card pick player coach. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Maybe they can hire one of the 17 fired Grizzlies assistant coaches.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Like... So Rudy right now is high-fiving people in his living room. I have for my hot seat wildcard, Julius Randall. We don't need to talk about it. There's a scenario where he just completely torpedoes Minnesota in round one and people are like, that guy sucks. You can't ruin them. He ruined Minnesota. Got to get him out of here. We all see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But I see a team like Minnesota, and I think fundamentally they could get to what I watched in that game, right? Intensity, competitiveness, defense, switching, physicality. I think the Warriors might be able to get there as weird as that sounds with how late they've gotten in the season. The question for me is the Lakers because they're big. And we went to the Laker game together last week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
What's your next pick? You still haven't picked an Apex superstar.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Obviously the game we went to, he scored what? 21 points in the first eight minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And so you wouldn't have traded Anthony Davis and Max Christie in a number one for him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You wouldn't have taken that as a trade offer. If you were the Mavs, you would have said no. I would have been your move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
When, when do we have to stop pretending that that was the case, but I can't pretend that LeBron and Rich Paul and Anthony Davis didn't know about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Should we do an RIP for the people who had the 48 hours of, I'm not sure these guys can play together? That was... One of my favorites. Unbelievable. That was great. That was a nice little basketball IQ test.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They're missing a rim protector. LeBron has to rebound. I think a little more than maybe he's ever had as a burden in his career. And same for Luca, like they're going to have to patch some stuff together, but ultimately it's a pretty physical team and kind of a different way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
They both have an inside-outside game and can pass. And the other thing is they don't have to play all the minutes together. That's the piece I thought of right away, and I wasn't alone, of like, well, fuck, one of these guys is going to be out there for two and a half hours.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And the crowd likes the team. They're going to be tough to beat in LA. Yeah, the... Well, that leads to my third banana pick, which is Austin Reeves. We don't need to spend 10 minutes on it, but I think he's the best third score on a team, not just this year, but in a while. When you're talking about a guy that
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Might be able to score in the thirties, even if the whole team's playing, but also one of our two guys is out. Can you score 40 tonight? He can do that. There's nobody, nobody has that in the NBA right now. And nobody's had it for a while. I was trying to think of like best third scores on really good teams. And you go backwards to Steph, KD, and then Klay was the third scorer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
But even as great as Klay was and as great of a shooter as he was, you couldn't run the offense through him. They can run the offense to Reeves for like six, seven minutes, and he actually can create shots for himself or other people. It's pretty great. So there's a lot of good third bananas. I think he's the best one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Um, do you think they have that in them that when we're talking about intensity, competitiveness, the defense, the banging, we saw it last night. It seems like they do, but I'm a little suspicious just because of how much of the load is on a 40 year old LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
By the way, that's a team to watch, and we haven't even mentioned them yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Maybe just trading with each other. Well, I mean, this Kings thing now, it's a decade and a half almost. We did that Grantland draft room, war room short when they let us behind the scenes. Remember that? It's on YouTube somewhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And Vivek is kind of nudging people towards Stauskas. They sing to him. Don't they like sing or chant something on the phone? They call him like, one, two, three, something. I'm going to make this quick. My crossroads guy is Kawhi Leonard. And here's why.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
His bounce is there if you see it in person. I don't know how long it's going to last. And it's gotten to the point when he's out there with the other guys they have. The Clipper fans, I think rightfully so, are like, we can hang with any team in the league. And the reason he's a crossroads thing is, I think the Clipper fans are at the crossroads with that feeling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
This is now over a half decade of, well, if Kawhi can just dot, dot, dot. And I think this is it. And if he gets hurt again or he falls apart in some way or he's not there or in round one all of a sudden, game three, Shams is reporting Kawhi Leonard is doubtful for tonight. I just don't think the Clipper fans want to do it again. This has been... five years of this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So it's a crossroads from a sense of you can't realistically think you can win the title if he's one of your highest paid guys and best guys in the team when he hasn't been able to make it through a season in a half a decade. And that's it. You don't need to have anything else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I do the list every week. He was on my third team this week. I don't know if he's going to stay, but he's in there. Who do you have for a defensive stud? That's a hole for you right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Let's do Amin Thompson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I don't care that everything... You saw him in person this year, right? Yeah. Yeah, we were texting about it. It's different in person. It's like, all these guys are amazing athletes and yet he's a better athlete than all the amazing athletes. It's crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'm going to use a second banana pick because I have one. And I'm going to take Jimmy Butler just because I feel like he needs to be in any sort of most intriguing guys heading into the playoffs list. It's been really fun to watch him. I don't know what happened with Miami. And I think blame goes everywhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And it seemed it got really, really, really deeply, darkly personal with him and Pat Riley. about as personal as it's gotten with an executive and a player maybe ever. And I think it affected everything to the point where both sides needed to move on and they did. And he went to Golden State and he's clicked with Draymond and the Warriors took off immediately and it's prolonged Steph's prime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And I can't wait to watch him in a playoff series again because he's fucking awesome in the playoffs. So where they land, we'll see who they're playing. We don't know. Um, but it's great to have them involved because I did not like this Miami version of Jimmy this year. It was just felt like a wasted, wasted talent this year. It's like, this guy's good. He still has it in him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
We're just going to throw a season away for no reason. So he is, uh, my second band of pig. All right. I don't know if I did this correctly, but it seems like we only have two spots left. I still need my leap guy. I'm going to give you a wild card, Beck, so we can get to 25. I just want to point out we haven't taken Nikola Jokic yet in this intriguing thing. You have the floor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
You haven't been able to talk about him for five months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So we'll make Jamal and Jokic the co-wildcard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I was thinking more wildcard, like Jokic just rips through the West. Beats OKC by himself, makes the finals again. And we're like, oh, my God, this is one of the eight greatest players of all time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Talked about him a little on Sunday. Tyrese Halberton.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So they're in that four or five spot against Detroit. it looks like, assuming Milwaukee stays in six. And we all like Detroit. It's a feel-good story. But I just think Indiana has a better team than them. Detroit's going to try to muck it up and there's a chance we might be really celebrating the 20th anniversary of the Artest Melee in an actual way with the same uniforms.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Don't say that. Don't do that. I'm just a little worried. Detroit clearly loves brawling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, it's great. Thanks for the jersey. Thanks for the jersey. I just want to mention, James Johnson's on the Pacers. So I'm prepared for anything in a Pacers Pistons series. But with Halliburton, the way he's played the last three months, he fully looks back to where he was the first two months of the previous season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
There's a path here for him playing the Pistons around one going toe to toe with the Cavs in round two, where it's just like we leave that series like, wow, Halliburton has been the best guy through four games. Holy shit. Are the Pacers going to beat the Cavs? They could just run up and down the way the Cavs defense has been the last month or so. There's some vulnerabilities.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I guess my question is, how good is Halliburton? Is there a level for him to go up in the playoffs? Was last year just a fluke of injuries and the fact that the East wasn't deep and they snuck into the Eastern finals and it didn't mean anything? Or did that actually mean a little more than we realized? I'm just intrigued. So I have him as my possible leap guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, there's like 10 years ago, Obi Toppin is in the running for sixth man of the year because we had way less six better of the year candidates. And we're like, hey, what about we're just trying to talk ourselves into candidates? I mean, he comes in and swings games every once in a while.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I just realized with the categories that I put Luca down twice for you and that Jokic can be your legacy guy. So moving in here, here's where we land.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Apex superstar. I had SGA. You had Luca. Okay. Beloved bench guy. I had Horford. You had Malik Beasley. Crossroads guy. You have cat. I have Kauai. Defensive stud. Lou door for me. I'm in Thompson for you. Feel good. Star step Curry for you. Donovan Mitchell for me. Hot seat coach. Controversial category. Budenholzer for you. Tibbs for me. You jerked backwards and screamed out, whoa!
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Hot seat wildcard. You went with Jamal Morsley on the Orlando Magic who can no longer score. I went with Julius Randle. Legacy guy. I have Tatum. You have Jokic. Second banana, you took Jalen Williams and Chet Hormigan together. I allowed it. I took Jimmy Butler. Third banana, Austin Reeves for me, Levine for you. The leap, Mobley for you, Halliburton for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Trade machine guy, Giannis for you, Ja for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
That gimmick actually worked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I'm really glad to face you. We didn't pick LeBron James. Maybe we should put him as another wild card.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Okay. He'll be fine. Hopefully he's okay with not being mentioned as one of the 25 most intriguing players in the playoffs. He's kind of legacy and printed onto it. We don't even need to have him in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, yeah. He's lingering above. I'm sure there'll be some LeBron fans out there who'll be upset. They didn't even pick LeBron. Welcome back, Zach. Fuck you. Zach Lowe, you start your podcast on The Ringer next week. It's called The Zach Lowe Show. So I guess you're going to have to do that. Welcome to The Lowe Show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
I remember losing the BS report once upon a time. And it hurt, and it just became the BS podcast, and then that's how it went. Your YouTube channel, we launched that as well. There's going to be some writing stuff that we'll talk about as the playoffs get closer. That's a TBD. And anything that I didn't leave out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
10 years since we've worked together steadily and we're back and it's great to have you back. It's great to have you in the basketball conversations. I had a fantastic time. Great to see you as always, my friend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
All right. Welcome back. All right. That's it for the podcast. You can watch it on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can always watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. I hope you're watching Celtic City. We put up an awesome episode, episode five. It was about the mid 80s and Larry Bird. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
Yeah, and the thing that jumped out to me, seeing them a couple of times in person recently, is athletically, he doesn't... Yeah, I remember there was a moment with Karl Malone in the early 2000s, where he still looked like Karl Malone, his hair was going, but physically he was about as imposing. But athletically, there was just some slip, and you could feel it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And you could feel that when Jordan was on the Wizards. Now, granted, it was a different era. They have way better ways to stay at the top physically now. But you could see, like, oh, he's losing this, he's losing that. LeBron will have these moments where it's like, this guy looks athletically as devastating as he was 10 years ago. He hit that block last night in the Houston game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
He launched the Zach Lowe Show, which you can subscribe to on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's going to be a video podcast twice a week, Mondays. Thursdays, maybe a couple other stunt special pods episodes during the course of the playoffs. Who knows? Writing as TBD. We talked about that when he comes on here in a little bit. We want to do a big gimmick for Zach's return pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
where he was up and he read it and it was like, you know, it wasn't a chase down block, but it was half court, but he was up in the air. I was like, all right. Uh, yeah, I think round one is going to be a little easier for them with all the breaks. Round two is where round two is the separate the men's from the men from the boys round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
And that's where the teams with the bench, like Cleveland and OKC in Boston, it's such an advantage. I mean, he's playing every other day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe
So embarrassing. If you kept a list, if the expanded standings had a list of, wow, you just didn't care tonight games, other than the lottery teams and the teams that are tanking, Phoenix would easily be the number one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up. Ends on May 5th, 2025. See official rules at mcglobalture.com slash rules for price and detail. Message and data rates may apply void where prohibited. All right, come back. We're into the AFC North. There's a world where this is the best division next year. depending on what happens with Cleveland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Like, if they took Sanders at second and he was good right away with the rest of the team they have, maybe. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Baltimore, so the AFC North is playing the AFC East and the NFC North. Pretty tough. Pretty tough. So for easy games, if the Bears are even mediocre to decent, there's no easy games in the NFC North. And then in the AFC East, maybe the Jets, maybe the Dolphins, maybe the Pats, but maybe two of those three teams are like pretty frisky. So that's a pretty tough one. Baltimore first place schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're going to have Sunday night games, Monday night games. They're in the running for a Christmas game, a Thursday game. You know, they're going to have another monster schedule because they want to put Lamar on TV. I predicted 11 and a half for this. That's exactly what I said. Where are we? The answer is 11 and a half.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
That's one of those, if the schedule stuff was a little easier, I would have gone 12 and a half. But I think you almost have to do the docket by one game just because you know it's probably headed for them. Okay.
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Last year, Pittsburgh 10 and 7. Second place schedule. We talked about the AFC East, NFC North. And as far as we know, they don't have a quarterback yet. Now, they're running out of possibilities because the Giants signed two of the guys. Rodgers is still lurking and just seems like he's milking it. There's Jackson Dart possibilities, I guess, maybe. They wanted to try to Bo Nix that situation.
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Not a lot of other options after that unless they want to play the Mason Rudolph card. And yet, this is a team every year that goes over there over. Do you think they factored that in with the silver under pick or not?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Or trade for not Kenny Pickett, but somebody of that ilk. Yeah. Give up like a sixth round pick. It's pretty brutal. I can't believe they didn't figure this out. So I guessed eight and a half. That's what it was last year. Sounds great. What'd you have? I said seven and a half.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
NFL win total over-unders came out today and cousin Sal and I decided we missed guess the lines. We're just going to do it again. We're going to play guess the lines with the over-unders. We intentionally did not look at them. They came out on Fandle right before we taped this podcast. And that's what you're about to hear. But first, Pearl Chip. All right, taping this on a Thursday.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
What is it? You're right. Seven and a half. Yeah. Wow. You're doing better than me. You're up. You're plus two on me right now. And there's been, there's been some juice already. That is minus one 20 as we're taping this. It is one 51 Pacific East time juice on the over. Yeah. Okay. Because Mike Tomlin wins nine or 10 games every single year. And that's just what he does.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Maybe even 16. Rodgers going to the Steelers is probably the most fun outcome from a content standpoint. And there's a chance that Steelers fans will just hate his guts by November. But we'll see how it goes. Cincinnati. I had the hardest time with this one. I think of anyone in the AFC. They're playing the AFC, San Francisco North. Third place schedule. They re-signed their receivers.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
They have Burrow. We'll see what happens with Hendrickson. Middle of the first round pick. I couldn't get to the 10 range with them. I went nine and a half. What'd you do?
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You're fucking killing me.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
One thing with this one, though, there's already a lot of juice on the under. It's minus 130, the under 10 and a half. So I might be right in two months. I don't see 11 wins for this team. That's a lot. That 11 wins makes them one of the four best teams in the AFC. And you would take Buffalo over them. You'd take Casey over them. You would definitely take Baltimore over them.
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And then, then it comes down to, would you take, take like, are they in the Texans chargers kind of class? Yeah. Or higher than that. Because that over-under says they're higher than that.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Yeah, and we still don't know what's happening with Hendrickson. Yeah. Cleveland, 3-14 last year. Fourth place schedule. and no cap space whatsoever. Kenny Pickett maybe is the quarterback unless they take Sanders.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
It was Pickett. Somehow Philly got like a six round pick out of it to trade Pickett, turn Pickett into Dorian Thompson Robinson.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
He's like a six rounder. That's got to be it. I went low.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Nailed it. Five and a half. Is it? Okay. Yep. So, juice on that one, too, already. Minus 125. So, people are banging the over. If you're banging the over, there's a case for it. You have to think they're taking Sanders and that he's going to be good right away. Right? He's Bo Nix next year for them. And... I don't know. I guess that's the case.
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Titans are. I think Titans. I think Cam Ward is pretty locked into that one. All right. McShay had some intel in his newsletter that he thought there was a possibility the Giants were trying to trade up to one and basically got the word that Titans were taking Ward. Everyone seems to think he's going first. The odds reflect it. Right now, he is minus 1,200 on FanDuel to be the first pick.
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I told our guy Jack at FanDuel, I said I wanted them to have the Bill Simmons runs around his house with his arms up in the air screaming euphorically, one, two, three, four draft scenario that I want to be able to bet. Oh, let's hear it. Ward goes first. Cleveland takes Sanders second. Giants take Travis Hunter third.
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And then we get Abdul Carter fourth in that I'm running around my house like this. That's fine. And I want to be able. And by the way, we should be able to bet that they don't have the exact order draft things yet because I think it's too far away. They usually do it two weeks before the draft. I want it now. Yeah. We're within a month. Like fucking put it up. Let's go.
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I want to bet all kinds of scenarios.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Abdul's fine. All right, AFC South. Now, they're playing the AFC West and the NFC West this year. What are your thoughts on that?
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That was a tepid endorsement.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Oof. Okay. Well, that number's about to drop for the AFC. So Houston, 10-7 last year, and then they're playing the West and the West.
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I think you could argue they're worse. Right? I don't know when Tank Dell's coming back. Diggs is gone. He was gone anyway. They traded Tunsell. They got a second-round pick for him. The AFC South, I'm assuming, will be a whiff better than it was last year. And they're playing a first-place schedule. I wanted to go 10.5, and I couldn't get there. I went 9.5. What'd you do? That's what I have.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
We'll see. I did think about the round 10. Yep, 9.5. Ooh! Breaking. You got it, right? Yeah, not only do we get it right, minus 160 on the under. So that's the biggest. So the most action we've seen so far is that. Minus 160. Vegas doesn't like Houston.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Cousin Sal is here. Normally, we just play Guess the Lions during the NFL season. We haven't seen Sal since the Super Bowl. The saddest look on his face every year, knowing that it's come to an end. And now we came up with a new idea. Thursday, I'm doing a pod. You are available. Fandle dropping. NFL over-under win total. So we said last night, I'm not going to look.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Fire their offensive coordinator?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Indianapolis, 8-9 last year. Second-place schedule. Our guy DeBundo is a little higher on the Anthony Richardson. Don't count this guy out. He was banged up last year. This is going to be the FU comeback year for Richardson. If that doesn't happen, Daniel Dimes is right behind him. What'd you get?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
And it's seven and a half. And minus 110 both ways. Not a lot of Colts, actually. All right. So you're still up plus two on me, but we've nailed the last couple. Okay. This one was a hard one. Jacksonville. Third place schedule. West and West. Four and 13 last year. Hmm. You know, I don't know what this team does. I don't understand it.
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Like they waive Christian Kirk and then just sign another receiver for the money. And now they're paying two fine receivers, a double salary, basically.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I'm not. Fifth pick in the draft could be Gentee. Could be Tyler Warren. Everybody likes him as like an awesome tight end. They just keep throwing resources at the receiver position. It never happens. But I was between five and a half and six and a half for this. New coach was the big thing for me. And I went six and a half. What'd you have?
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You did not go too high.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You want to cash out?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Is there a bet back? What's that bet back thing Findo has? Not only is it seven and a half, minus 130. So action on the Jaguars. What am I missing? On the top. What are we missing? Just bad division?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
our agent, James Babydoll Dixon. Yeah, baby. Likes to wish luck from people. Wish luck to some people from time to time. Some people recently got some luck.
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Yeah, there's some people in the Hollywood industry who might have been phased out of their jobs. Luck was wished by James Babydoll Dixon. I wish everyone a lot of luck going over Jacksonville minus seven and a half. I'm just telling you right now, that's insane. I don't see it at all. You really have to believe this is the year with Lawrence. It's like, it's now year six.
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Like, yeah, I'm not saying it's not going to happen with him, but I'm not betting that scenario. Right.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
you're not going to look and we're going to guess the lines. We made our guesses and we'd go through every team and see and see what our instincts were. What do you think?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
At least two of the home games. Tennessee, 3-14 last year. West and West, fourth place schedule. Cam Ward, we're assuming they take him first. Yeah. I don't know their offensive line situation, if it's much better than it was last year. I was trying to think, is this the safest bet to be the worst team in the league in the AFC next year? Tennessee. Is there any team you like less?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
No, I had. So initially I penciled in five and a half. And then after I did all the divisions for the AFC and I was like, Man, who's the worst team? We see this every year. There's a four and a half, there's a three and a half, and there's none of those in the AFC that I had. So I ended up with a four and a half. So we'll see. The answer is five and a half. Wow. Okay. Nailed me again.
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Not only is it five and a half, it's up to minus 130.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So if you're doing that, you're expecting Cam Ward to get drafted and be good right away. Right. And you're going to say like rookie Cam Ward is significantly better than Will Levis, which it's not inconceivable.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
My favorite with that with you is when you then get mad at Will Levis, like this was his fault. Like you bet on him. It's like, I can't believe this Will Levis. It's like, you can't. No signs at all? He threw the game.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Right, if you had to make a movie about it, that's what it would look like. Well, here's the thing. We only had the Jets at five and a half. Cleveland at five and a half, and Tennessee at five and a half so far. We have no four and a halves. Mm-hmm. So one of those three will be at four and a half by like June or July, because that's just how this shit goes. That's right.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Mm. Okay. Going to the AFC West, which might be good for all we know. Mm-hmm. Kansas City, 15-2 last year. Playing the AFC South and the NFC East. So you're talking... Um, giants are going to suck. Three of those AFC South teams might suck. Houston might not be very good. Sorry. Your Dallas team might not be very good. And Washington and Philly would be the two hard games out of those eight.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, we launched Good Hang with Amy Poehler. It's doing great. You can get it as a video podcast on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
And, but they'll have the first place schedule. They're going to be in all the night games, but, um, that's about as good of a, is there a better division draw than AFC South NFC East, maybe West NFC West AFC South. That's pretty good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So I went 12 and a half for this.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
It's light. It's 11 and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Do your spiel. Just do it. You do it every year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Super Bowl 7-1 for them. Mahomes 8-1 MVP. Yeah. At the Mahomes layaway MVP bet plan, was that your idea or House's? I can't remember.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I just do it. Just say bet that every year and it'll win three out of five times.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Yeah, we should have gone live. This should have been an event. It should have been like when the NFL releases the schedule. Right. We should have been the one announcing the Fando over-unders for each team. Trying to guess what they were. Yeah, we'll work on this. I think next year we can do an even bigger version of it. I know you go right from football to...
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
just to a series of wagering on sports you don't really know that well other than basketball. I'm sure you made a shitload of preseason baseball bets, March Madness. Yeah. You got some golf coming. There's some weird tennis stuff happening. What's the dumbest thing you've bet on in the last six years?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
All the parts of the world?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
. . . . . ., en P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P, the,pl實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . a in paid him to go away, and then went to the Steelers who completely quit on everybody in the last four weeks of the season.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
It's a continent? I don't know. Are they our 51st state?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
And now you have Dayball and Shane basically trying to save their jobs, telling us, we don't want to take a rookie quarterback three because we won't be here when he starts being good. And now there's Wilson versus Russell. is Wilson versus Winston's nuts.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
What was that? Yeah. I picked a four and a half for this. I think this is going to be our first four or three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Were you able to bet on Stephen A. versus LeBron?
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Five and a half. You win again.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I might want to book that five and a half from people.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Division odds... Giants 20-1. Is that the biggest one we've had so far? Cleveland's 23-1. Dallas 7-1. Washington plus 250. Eagles minus 165. I don't mind that. Washington's a play. Washington's a play. I don't mind that one at all. Okay.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I don't agree with that Giants number at all. In fact, I'm going to make my first like market down prediction. I think that's four and a half by the summer. Right. I don't think that stays there.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Stephen A., they started first take today. Two minute intro from the show credits of Molly and went to Stephen A. 17 straight minutes. And it was incredible, compelling TV. He's an artist. Was it really? I was really into it. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. He's really good. Yeah. I don't know where this goes, but I'll tell you this.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Is it higher? It is 10 and a half. That's bad. That's wrong. Well, I'll tell you this much. There's action on the under of all things.
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Minus 140 under 10 and a half.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
They lost both coordinators. Yeah. That's not nothing. Right. They had a horrible end to the season. Yep. And it's the Detroit Lions. They lose Carl Davis to your team.
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They replaced him, though. They replaced him with a cornerback everybody likes. They did. Yeah. I don't know. And we haven't seen the draft yet.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So you would bet the Lions plus 120 at over 10 and a half right now. Oh my God.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I really liked that one too. I almost, that line's so suspicious. I almost feel like we don't know something.
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Like, what do they know that we don't know?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Dan Campbell has been deranged all off season. Minnesota was 14-3 last year. This is so hard. And they changed their quarterback from the great Sam Darnold to J.J. McCarthy, who we have not seen play NFL yet. Tough for schedule, second place. This is the biggest drop-off, 14-3, but I went 9.5 for them. I don't see how it can be in the 10s.
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Eight and a half. Yes. That is plus 115 right now. You're really good at this. Guessing the over-unders. Your final destiny. This is it. You found the gimmick. We've been podcasting since 07. You figured it out. Unbelievable.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
If you're going to do the who has more to lose sweepstakes, I'm going to say LeBron has more to lose. If this just gets worse and worse and worse. Interesting. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm not saying he has more to lose. I'm saying he's just more famous. Yeah. Stephen A. Like, this is great.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I think you've clinched. I think I'd have to like get all the rest ones just to tie you. That's it. What a, what a beating this was. Yeah. So that is a full fledged. We don't trust JJ McCarthy number. So that's the biggest drop off five and a half from 14 and a half, five and a half drop off and JJ McCarthy might be good.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Vikings. Dare I say a little, nobody believes in us. And there's still some Aaron Rodgers. 14-3 last year. A lot of the guys are still in this locker room. They went 14-3. Yeah. All right. Green Bay. They went 11-6 last year. Third place schedule. And I'll probably regret this, but I went 9.5. I did think about the 10.5. It's got to be 9.5. And it's 9.5.
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Plus 115 on the over. So they're minus 135 on the under.
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Yeah. So division odds now, Detroit plus 110, Green Bay plus 250, Bears plus 450, and Minnesota with the worst odds of anyone at plus 550. But I should have done that after we did the Bears.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Maybe I can cheat. Well, I had eight and a half for them anyway. They're five and 12 last year. NFC East, AFC North. They spent a lot of money in the lines. They're going to have a high draft pick. And with the way the division's kind of fallen back to them a little bit, it seems like an eight and a half. What'd you have?
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Not touching that. Not touching Green Bay. That is a stay away. Okay.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Two more. NFC South, Tampa Bay, 10 and 7. Feel good story. Playing the NFC West and the AFC East. So potentially, I don't really love anybody in the NFC West. And we might not love three of the four teams in the AFC East. So this is a nice little scenario for the South. And then, you know, they're bringing their receivers back, bringing the team back. It felt like a nine and a half to me, Sal.
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I'm at the stage now where I'm bringing in the shortstop to pitch the ninth inning. He's throwing his knuckleball.
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I'm going to make the Walton Goggins finding out that his friend had sex with everyone in Thailand face. Minus 125 action for the Bucs, FYI.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Maybe that's how Stephen A. wins. He becomes the next president and he abolishes the NBA max contract. That'll be his first thing. Okay. NFL regular season win totals. So we're going to go by, you want to go alphabetically or you want to go by divisions?
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New Orleans. Oh, no, not New Orleans. Atlanta is next. So they're playing a second-place schedule, plus the NFC West, plus the AFC East, and they went 8-9 last year. Full year of Pennix. I put 8.5 for these guys.
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I don't know why you keep doing the round numbers, but I'm not going to question your process since you're beating me by six teams. Seven and a half is our answer. Wow, you won that one too. Motherfucker.
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I was feeling so good after my 27-5, but now I'm in shambles. No, you're good. It's such a good year last year. Then I lose the Super Bowl. I get killed, KC, and now my whole thing's falling apart. Maybe the under should be me.
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I care about dumb shit like this. So it matters. New Orleans. God, are they going to be terrible? Five and 12 NFC West, AFC East and the third place schedule. And they're in cap hell. They brought back car with this weird, well, we're screwed anyway. How about we'll guarantee your money. They have the ninth pick in the draft.
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New coach, but they had like the last pick of the coaches. It was like they went to go get a dog from the kennel and every other choice was gone. And they're like, we have this one left. Any interest? I went five and a half and it might be a win too high.
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Six for me. You hit it again. Really? You doing this round number thing is bullshit. There's been no round numbers the whole time. I'm just trying to do this correctly. You should try harder. This is like the most you've ever cheated. There are round numbers. I looked last year. Pick five and a half or six and a half. So I was like, I'll just take six. And it's like price is right.
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You're just gaming the system.
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Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Well, it's six and a half this time. We haven't had a round number yet. Wait, is it six and a half or six? Yeah, it's six and a half. You won because you picked six because you cheated. Oh, okay. Oh, I see. And then last one is Carolina. Five and 12 last year somehow. I still can't believe I didn't win my, when I was in Boston that time. And I bet the adjusted under four and a half wins for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
And somehow Bryce Young came in and just smoked it. They ended up with five wins. I lost. I still, and the other one was the adjusted under on the pats, three and a half. And, and, uh, Joe Milton came in at the end. Joe Milton.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Joe Mullen, the next state horse quarterback? Anyway, he came in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Then at the car accident.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I won't try to find out at the casino you went to. I went five and a half for the Panthers. I did too. Okay. The answer is six and a half. Jesus. What the hell?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Divisions. Tampa, plus 135. Atlanta, plus 230. New Orleans, plus 480. And Carolina, action. Started out in the fourth slot, but now they're plus 410. People are banging the Panthers. What am I missing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
We, one of our locks that we hit was that they would have less than 30 wins, which they did. And then we had an NFC East first, uh, first South bet. I think just the top two teams in the NFC East almost beat the entire NFC South.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I got to be honest. We've done 28 teams. I think my single favorite is New Orleans under six and a half so far. Why are they going to be good? What is good about them? What's the case?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
The total shot. Is that Steph's fault that it was Senate? Like, should he have retweeted the angle and said that it didn't actually go in?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
If we were to say who's going to have the worst record in the league next year, they would at least be one of the teams we batted around. NFC West. They're playing the NFC South and the AFC South. That's the best draw, right? Yeah, that's the best draw. I thought the NFC West was probably going to suck this year, but that made me rethink it. The Rams are in the one spot with the schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
They were 10-7 last year. First place schedule on the one hand, but then playing the Souths kind of messed with my head a little bit. I went 10 and a half for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You can also get it on the Amy Poehler Good Hang YouTube channel. Go check it out. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a Prestige TV podcast yesterday. We covered the studio, the first two episodes. People like the show. Me, Sean Fantasy, Joanna Robbins talked about that. I'm also gonna be there on Sunday night, White Lotus, episode seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Minus 145. Listen. I think this is going to be ultimately good for me because I think my instincts will be the correct instincts. I do. I like them because of their schedule and because I don't think their division is going to be good. Yeah. Do you like Arizona, San Francisco, or Seattle this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Flipped up into Adams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Yeah, I mean, one of the great things about this process is, especially after the draft, when we get to the summer, I'm sure we'll flip-flop on a bunch of these instincts. But I just think the Rams, best coach, they've had success. Stafford's kind of near the end. This seems like a pretty good division bet type of thing for me. Seattle, they were 10-7 last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Same South versus South, second-place schedule, and I went 8.5 for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I hit this one. Eight and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I did. Really? I won one. I'm remembering all of this for Guess the Lines this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I don't know. I didn't like the Cooper Cup signing at all. There were so many bad stats about him getting open over the last five years. In 2020, he was open 90% of the time, and it was down to like 14. The thing with Darnold, though, he was 14-3 last year. I know. So now he's an eight-win quarterback. That's the only thing that makes me nervous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
But I want to see if they fix their offensive line completely through the draft. We'll see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Arizona was eight, nine last year. And if Seattle's eight and a half with this South, South thing, I think they, I think Arizona has to be eight and a half. So that's what I picked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I said seven, seven round number. It's higher. Eight and a half plus one on five. Well, at least I'm ending in a way with my fans can at least have some hope.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You took out your starters. You're like Buffalo in week 17 and Joe Milton let you up. Plus 105. And then last but not least, San Francisco. who lost so many people. It's like a whole paragraph of all the people they lost. This is so tough. And yet they were six and 11 last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
That was the rebuilding year, but now they're in a rebuilding year and they're going to have to pay Purdy, but they are playing the South and the South. I said six and a half. Would you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Okay. Wow. This is the biggest disparity we've had.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
How is this right? Ten and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Yeah. Okay. Divisions. Let's do divisions. We'll start with the AFCs, Buffalo Bills. They went 13 and four. We're going to tell you the only things that we know that we did work on were what other two divisions each team is playing. Right. So the Buffalo Bills were 13 and four last year. Next year, they're playing the AFC North. Not awesome. NFC South, pretty good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I thought this was like a blow it up or building air for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Not the Rams? I'm going to tell you right now. I'm stunned by that. Yeah. San Francisco plus 155 Rams plus one 80 Seahawks plus four 90 Cardinals plus 500. So I have to bet this now, if I was four wins off, even though we don't know what's happening in the draft, that has to be an automatic bet for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Also like, how do we know McCaffrey's even going to be remotely where he was? Exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Well, that was really fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I forgot to mention Mac Jones. The MVP is Lamar plus 450, Allen plus 550, Burrow plus 600.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I hope that's not true. For the conference, they have the third best odds, nine to one. What am I missing? What's happening? I think it's way more likely they have a year from hell again and Shanahan is like out of there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I didn't see anything that made me think that they're going to be awesome. I thought they lost a shitload of people. I mean, do we feel like they hit their drafts the last couple of years? Like, You know, they're trying to trade Ayuk as we speak, and I don't even think they can do that. Nobody wants to play there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You hated that. That was the maddest I've ever seen you non-sports related.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
But I know it's going to happen. I know it's happening now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
No, I did not like it right away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So I'm going to say that's about an average. It's a wash. Yeah, it's a wash.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
He set it up that this is what death is like. You don't know when it's coming and everything goes black. Bullshit. So my son, like five days ago, for spring break went to Portugal and Spain. Cause he's in this, he plays the upright bass and he's in this jazz band. So a bunch of the jazz people went to play in all these places.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So they, my wife drives them like in the middle of the night to the airport. Cause they have like a six o'clock flight and then he's flying for two days straight. I wanted to read you all of our interactions with him since he's been gone. He's been gone since Friday night and WhatsApp because they don't have messages, anything. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
First of all, she only hears from him once on WhatsApp, then puts me on a text with them. Miss you guys too. That was, that was one. We are in Rondo and are about to perform in four minutes, second form of communication with him. Sent us one, two pictures of, you can see, of a tree and a mountain. Nice. My wife asks, how was the performance? No answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Sends a picture of the dog, misses you, nothing. Um, performances have been great. It's super nice out here. That was the third communication. Miss home though. T H O. Great picture. Um, need a photo of your face. My wife says nothing. Then silence again. Hey guys, super long day. We left at nine and just got back. My wife responds. That's your report. Anything else happening? Is it any fun?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Sends us back this picture.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I couldn't see. It's just a picture of him and his friend with the mouth behind them. And he says, it is fun. It's just a lot. Yeah. And that's it. Those have been all of our interactions with them. Has he tried to call us once? Only one picture of his face. And I have no idea if he's even alive in Spain right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Yeah, I'm never... I'm going to go 5-27 next year. I'll never top 27-5.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I was trying to, my wife and I were talking about, I was trying to remember, was I this much of a dick when I was 17? And I think the answer is probably yes, right? We didn't want to deal with our parents in any way, shape or form when we were 17.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So maybe that's a little, yeah, but maybe we- It's hard to believe there was one moment where he's like, you know what? I'm going to send my parents an update. Just a long paragraph. Here's the best thing I ate. Just check in, say hi to grandma for me, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I was an international bass player. Yeah. How about that he went to Portugal and Spain, two countries I haven't been to yet. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I didn't mean to mention Portugal and Spain in a non-soccer context.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Anyway, that's Parent Corner. The other thing is, we're doing this live rewatchables tonight in Boston. And, uh, you know, my daughter goes to college here. So I left her a ticket and I'm like, you're gonna come tomorrow night. And she's like, I don't know. It's, uh, you know, it's a big night. Meaning like it's a big night where they go out. So she's 50, 50.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Oh, I just, I might need to have more kids is what that's where I've really ended. But you know what? Those older guys, when they just like all of a sudden they have the second family and like, huh, that's weird. Maybe I just need to start again. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
She shows up by accident. 50-50. Might go, might not. Depends on what's going on tonight. You son of a bitch. You guys are doing good fellas tonight? No, we're doing Good Will Hunting tonight. Oh, Good Will Hunting. Yeah. Goodfellas is playing at the Low Coolidge Corner Film Festival. Oh, man. That's going to be so much fun. So much fun. All right, Sal. Congrats on absolutely kicking my ass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Thank you. If that was a baseball game, that would have been 17 to 3. What's your favorite MLB future?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Those are crucial. We don't know what's happening in the draft. None of this stuff. Just like... And we're trying to guess... What do we think FanDuel thought would be the perfect over-under? Because the goal of this, when they're putting out these over-unders in March, how do we get the most action both ways on the over-under? Last year, Dallas, they put it a win too high.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Oh, that sounds amazing. All right, check that out. That's on Against All Odds, right? Against All Odds. But you're also on the Mirror Gambling show, too. That's right. Yeah. All right. So there you go. How are you doing on March Madness, by the way? Are you winning?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I've been following. I'm just doing a bit. I like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I was on the thread we have with JJ and Raheem and house just, Oh, my bracket.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
But anyway, we did all right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Good job, BU. Great to see you. Thanks to Kyle and Sarudin Gahal. As always, don't forget, you can watch us on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel or as a video podcast on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Everybody bet... Well, I'm sorry it was your team, but everybody bet the under. everybody kept that in the end there and they had to move it from 10 and a half to nine and a half, which was a really bad sign. So one of the things we're interested this year is snapshot of in March when this comes out and then how does it shift? They'll start putting action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
If people are banging the over, like if people start banging the Patriots over, they'll make it a minus one 40 minus one 45. So you'll get a sense of like, Oh, who is America really starting to get behind, which can either be a good thing or a bad thing. Right? So Buffalo, I went with 11.5. So, 11 and a half wins as the over-under. What'd you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You have to do a .5, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
11 and a half. I knew this would be a new way for you to get bad. Meanwhile, you wouldn't guess the lines last year. And there's been a lot of talk about you and whether you've been cheating. This doesn't count. This doesn't count. Like, are you using PDs? What's going on over there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Well, we should also mention, this is crucial too, minus 140 already. At least I'm in Boston, so I can do a live bet as we're talking. But minus 140 already, which makes me wonder, did they bump that at some point? But I think Miami's probably either the same or a little worse than last year. Jets, who knows? The Pats are the only one that you could say they'll definitely be better. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
We already have that one in the bank. It's the last one we were able to tape ahead of time because it looks like no screeners spurred. the last episode, the 90 minute one. So we're gonna be doing that live two Sundays from now. New rewatchables coming Monday night. We are doing, I'm in Boston right now. We're doing Good Will Hunting tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
As far as we can tell, Buffalo didn't get worse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
They're going to get the seven Bosa games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Where he looks awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Oh, I forgot to mention one variable that you have to factor in is the schedule. So we're doing this by how they finished last year. So AFC is Buffalo's first place scheduled next year. Yeah. They'll have a bunch of night games. So all that stuff, Miami eight, nine last year, AFC North NFC South second place schedule. And, uh, Whatever this is, I might make a live under bet right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
What do you have for this one? I have nine. Nine? Wow, you really went round numbers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Yeah. Yeah. They're eight, nine. I might be low. I said seven and a half. I don't like the vibe of that Dolphins team at all. And the answer is eight and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I'm going under. Yeah. That's a guaranteed under for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You want to imitate JJ talking about this or should I do it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I don't know, bro. Eight and a half is low. It's a must-win season for McDaniel. It's a must-win. He's got to win 10 games or is that keeping his job, bro?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
You think he goes under?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
All right. Eight and a half. Even money both ways. My prediction is that's going to be an under bet for a lot of people. All right. Jets are next. They were 5-12. Third place schedule next year. Justin Fields now a quarterback. Seventh pick in the draft. We'll see what they do with that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
The one thing that could affect this is if they take Shadur Sanders with the seventh pick and basically get nothing out of that first round pick because they already took Fields. So I'm going to say six and a half for these guys. What do you have? All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I think that's too low. Don't you? New coach, Aaron Glenn. Fields, different look than Rodgers. than Rodgers, but not necessarily a worse luck. Seventh pick in the draft. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So you can hear that as a podcast of the live show on Monday night. And then we're sticking around all weekend. Coolidge Corner, a place that I lived for a little bit once upon a time. We're doing a little Coolidge Corner Film Festival. They have a theater that's been there forever and they've actually taken care of it. And it's one of the best places to see movies in Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Yeah, maybe the home Pats game, the home Dolphins game, maybe?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Carolina, if it's home against Carolina?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I think that's about fair. If it's home against New Orleans?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
And then maybe one other shit team? All right. All right, this is the most exciting one. The Patriots, 4-13. New coach. Just spent money all over the place on a bunch of different positions. They have the fourth pick in the draft. Seems like about a 50-50 chance they're getting Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter. Drake May year two. To say the coaching staff will be better is an understatement.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
And they're going to have a fourth place schedule and they get to play the NFC South. There's a lot of things lining up for them to be the Washington of this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
10 and a half, I'd be insulted. I think it should be 12 and a half. What do you have? I have seven and a half. Yeah, that's what I had too. And the answer is... Seven and a half. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Minus 115 already. All right. So you're up 2-1-1 with me right now. Yeah. Does that go up? What if they get Abdul Carter or Chaunter in the draft? Does that go up? Well, you're very influential.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
I'm not. That one I'm not. I'm... I'll work. By the end of April, I'll be over the moon on the Diggs signing. Right now, I'm kind of still confused. Although it does seem like they can get out of it after a year. But the 32-year-old receiver coming off ACL surgery, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Well, the question is, could you be better than that? And that's what we said with Washington last year, where they checked every box and both of us were, we both jumped on the over, but we kind of drew the line at could they be a playoff team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
It's the recipe that works every year. And the question is whether it's the Patriots or another crappy team making the jump. It's, Did you improve your coach? Do you have a QB? Is your schedule easy? If you have those three things, it becomes very realistic to go from four to 10 wins. We see it all the time. And I think they're a great candidate for this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
Did they greenlight that yet? Yeah. It's just about Drake May. It's not about the Patriots. It's we're just with it's like Truman Show. Remember that movie Truman Show? It's that with Drake May. We just we follow him around. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to do the rest of the divisions. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA finals. One of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level, but all the historical legacy stuff. It's my favorite. You've heard me talk about it on the podcast many times. Speaking of finals, Michelob Ultra has given me the chance
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
So we're showing heist movies, Boston movies all day, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I think we did nine movies total. Me and Sean and Chris are going to Be there for a couple of them to talk afterwards. So if you're interested, I think there might be some tickets left. It's theringer.com slash events to go check that out. So this is fun. This is like an unexpected Christmas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal
to win tickets to the NBA Finals, which I hope Boston is a part of. Not only do they make a superior beer, they're also helping fans like you get closer to the game. Michelob Ultra, superior is worth playing for. Check out MichelobUltra.com slash NBA Finals to enter for a chance to win tickets. Michelob Ultra courtside NBA Finals, sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to U.S.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
You just stumbled into the answer. These next two months are about building back Zion up as a genuine asset and then trying to get out of that. Get out of that situation as fast as you can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I am. No matter what. To me, if he's healthy for two months, trade when the value's high. There are 11 losses behind Phoenix for the 10 seed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
So there's no scenario where they catch fire, unfortunately. One of the things about trading McCollum is then you can play Jordan Hawkins more. It's weird. They're deep, but they also have a terrible record. They make no sense as a team of assets. Anyway, next one. I didn't know it was going to be today. What's today's date? January 22nd.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I thought it was going to be after the Celtics game the next day when we celebrated the annual Lakers holiday, passive aggressive trade day, when some report comes out that LeBron and AD or just LeBron aren't happy with the roster. It happened today. It was January 22nd. I wish I had had FanDuel put odds with all the different days in January when it was going to happen, but it happened today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
LeBron and AD apparently really want them to improve the roster. They're not that happy with it. I don't know what the move is, KOC. When you're paying those two guys a hundred plus million dollars a year and you have Reeves, your roster's pretty good. And maybe look in the mirror a little bit. And I went through everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
If it's Rui and Vanderbilt and Vincent and two firsts, I don't even know what you're getting. Who's available? If it's a top 50 player, nobody wants to trade a top 50 player. So you're looking at people like Zach Levine. And if they got Zach Levine, I just don't think they're a contender in the West. They would have the same problems they have anywhere where they can't guard anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I would never, Reeves is a hang up for me. If somebody called about Reeves at 12 billion a year, it's like, yeah, I'm sure you do want Austin Reeves. Fuck off, hang up. I don't know what the move is for them. I don't know how they're a title contender. And I have some ideas zagging the other way. But what do you think?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Making up for it today with a special basketball podcast. Our old friend Kevin O'Connor is coming in. We're going to talk about a bunch of teams that are in trouble. We're going to talk about fake trades. What's realistic? What's not? Where are people like Jimmy Butler going? Could there be a surprise? The trade deadline is February 6th. We're breaking all of it down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
If I was a Laker fan, I would be losing my mind at this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
We're going to mortgage basically the next six years so we can fulfill the charade that we're a title contender? There's no chance against Oklahoma City.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I wouldn't do it. I would zag the other way. And if Reeves is in a trade, they're just flat out stupid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I have an AD idea. Okay. I think they should think about zagging the other way and trading AD. And, you know, it's a really interesting thing to bring up to Laker fans because I think they're grateful they won the title in 2020, but I also feel like they don't want to lose the entire decade trying to pretend that they can win a title with these two guys as their best players because they can't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And you watch them. First of all, did you see that stat about how their record versus what the record actually is? Like how far the expected win rate or whatever that stat is? Which backs up what I've watched. They've lucked out with some schedule stuff. I don't think they're that good. And I think they know they're not that good. Whatever their record is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They're going to play the Celtics tomorrow night. And LeBron will have his A game. And they're just not good enough defensively at the Celtics play well. Granted, the Celtics can go seven for 50 from three and get smoked in a second game back to back. But defensively, they're just not good enough. And I don't know if Walker Kessler is changing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And the Magic lost their two best players for most of the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I just don't see it. I would not... give away the rest of the future just because LeBron wants a better team. Part of it is you insisted on the Anthony Davis trade. You guys won a title for it. You gave away all of these assets. You struck oil with Reeves. That was one of the luckiest things that could have happened to any team to get a guy. Was he undrafted or a second round?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah. And then they get him on this crazy contract because he didn't go out and shop himself. So he's like $12 million a year. That's one of the best contracts in the league. So if you just look at those three things and the role players they have, you would think they would be better than they are, but can't guard anybody. Last team is Miami. So the Butler thing is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
this is about as bad of a player team situation as we've had in a while. It's also the NBA I grew up with where stars would just get mad at teams, stars miss planes. You know, even data going into the two thousands, this would happen with people like Vince Carter. I don't know what his trade value is anymore. And I don't think you probably do either. I don't know what he's worth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I can't decide because he can opt in next year. He's such a headache. He's 35. You know they have to trade him. Why am I offering anything for him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is 4 o'clock Pacific time. There's reasons for that, which I'll get to. Very excited to have Kevin O'Connor here. You might remember him from many, many, many years at The Ringer. He is now at Yahoo. We have not done a podcast during this basketball season. What better time, KOC, than fake trade season for us to reunite?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
If that's the trade, you're doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Bradley Beal for Butler straight up, which would be just an insane trade for Miami to make. I don't know why they would take on an extra year of Bradley Beal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
This wasn't one of my fake trades. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
The part that has to be true is A, Beal would want to waive his no trade clause to go to Milwaukee, which I find hard to believe. B, Milwaukee would want Bradley Beal for this year and the next too. You just have to assume that that might be true. I don't think it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
The trade I came up with was Butler to the Suns, Beal to the Bucs. Miami gets Chris Middleton, Steven Adams from Houston, and Cam Whitmore from Houston. And Houston gets Brooke Lopez. And that actually works. So Houston would be taking on seven, eight million to turn Adams and Whitmore into Lopez, basically. And then all the contracts work. Bucks just get Beal? Bucks just get Beal, that's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
See, I'm saying no if I'm the Bucks. I think I am too. But I think when people talk about four-teamers, five-teamers, It's a trade like that, and I think a team like Houston has to be involved turning Adams and one of their younger, cheaper assets into a better center.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
That's good work, KFC. Here would be my counter. I don't understand why the Bulls have to get rid of Zach Levine. He's played really well this year. I actually think he's an asset. I don't want to keep him. We did the Ringer 100. I had him in the 30s. I watched him single-handedly beat the Knicks, the Celtics. The better the competition is, the more he goes up a level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
If I was Milwaukee and I could turn Chris Middleton or another contract into Zach Levine, I'm doing that in five seconds. He's way better than Bradley Beal. Plus, he plays. Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And he has... And this year he has the ball a lot, which is like for the Lakers. He makes no sense because he's not going to have the ball nearly as much and he can't play defense. Right. So if you're trading for him, it has to be a situation like the Rockets won't do it. But he's somebody that makes a ton of sense for me if I'm the Rockets, even though he'd hurt a little defensively.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
He's somebody in the last five minutes of a game can actually like match baskets and with whoever the best player on the other team is. I think that's his superpower. Not a lot of guys... Like, the Suns don't necessarily need that, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But if you're talking about the Bucs, who already have Dame and Giannis, but you're improving the Middleton spot with him, basically, the way Middleton's been playing this year, like... I think about it. We're aligned, though. I think Levine's been good. I hate seeing him get thrown into these trades like he's not an asset. I think he's an asset.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
The only reason to trade him is if you feel like your team doctors who have spent a lot of time with him are like, sell high right now. This is it. He's going to get hurt in two months. That's the only reason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I would keep him. I think he's going to be worth more, especially like next year, there'll only be two years left on his deal. They're going to be a playing team unless Philly can catch them. And I wouldn't want to play that team in a winner-take-all where all of a sudden it's a tie game with five minutes left and Zach Levine is doing some of the stuff we've seen him do this year. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
We're aligned on that. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. Fake trade time. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. From the first whistle to the final drive, FanDuel, taking the NFL playoffs to the next level. Right now, new customers can bet $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if you win. That is $300 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet.
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An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into, It makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yes, of course. So, unfortunately, we had to take this a little late on Wednesday because I was flying back from Boston this morning. And then there was a Wi-Fi issue on the plane And I'm like, is this going to work out? Am I going to be able to do a podcast today? The Wi-Fi miraculously came back. And then I was on my iPad for hours making fake trades.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com. Rated R. All right. I have some fake trades that I don't think will happen, but I thought would be fun to throw at you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And then I want to hit a couple that I do think could happen, should happen, probably won't happen, but at least are realistic. Trade number one. Bradley Beal for Paul George straight up. Who says no?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
All right. Let's say he didn't have no trade clause. Okay. So Bradley Beal has two years left after this year. Paul George has three. The Sixers called Phoenix and said, we'll give you Paul George right now for Beal. And the sons are like, really? Okay. And they decided to do it. Beal has that connection with Embiid. Remember Embiid was pushing for him a couple of years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Coming up, it's fake trade season. Let's go. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here, and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sportsbook any way you want. Fun markets. Who have the most yards? Tons of same-game parlays. Offensive titties in the next drive. So much more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I think Phoenix blinks faster with a no than Philly in that trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I think Phoenix says no faster, but who knows? All right, next one. Three-teamer. Oh, this is... Miami gets Kevin Durant. Philly gets Jimmy Butler. Phoenix gets Joel Embiid in a 2029 first. And Philly gets a 2029 first. Philly's just out of the Embiid business. They turn Embiid in a 2029 first from Miami into Jimmy Butler. And they're just out. Never going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
It leads me to this question. Would Philly ever consider trading Embiid, A? B, would anyone consider trading for Embiid when he plays 40 games a year, max? Is he untradeable? Is he tradeable? I have no idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Can you imagine Josh Harris, who also owns Washington, who's playing for the NFC title? on Sunday and he gets a call about Sixers and he's just like, I don't even care. Just whatever. Just don't make any trades. I'll deal with that this summer. I just care about football. That's it. Sixers are a loss. Get them out of here. By the way, Bob Myers helped Washington with the football team, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
He was on that advisory committee and he, and I just feel like he's looming with the Sixers thing. And I don't think I'm alone. There's been some Bob Myers, Philly buzz that I think has been building. Cause I think he had a good experience with Josh Harris. Have you heard this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And I think a couple of times the lady next to me was like, what's this guy doing? What is this trade machine that he has? But before we do that, a bunch of teams I want to hit, just big picture, that kind of relate to this in some ways. Biggest one, Dallas. I think Dallas is in real trouble now. This lively injury, it's a foot injury, and they're saying out two to three months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Then when the, whenever the NBA is going to do that, I think Bob Myers is lurking in general, but I would not, If there is a fall guy, which we talked about earlier, it's going to be Nick Nurse and Daryl Morey. Unfortunately, I think the fact that Bob Myers is... Yeah, maybe it's both. One thing that Bob Myers does... builds the culture.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
That's what he was famous for, the Warriors, and you bring him into Philly. So if it gets really bad, I just wouldn't be surprised.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Or would he try to make it work in the bead? I think he's a, how do we get this to a better place all the way around guy before we decide to blow this up, would be my guess. That's what I'm thinking too, yeah. Okay. So we both think Embiid, nothing happens until this summer. I think more because the rest of the league would be like, yeah, cool. Embiid, no thanks. Third trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Do we think Brandon Ingram has any value? Not really. Very little. Making like 33, something like that, but it's expiring.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
If you're Detroit, would you rather have Ingram for one year or Tobias Harris for two?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah, I think that's the right answer. All right, so I'm going to get rid of them in that trade. And I'm going to knock it down to, is there something with San Antonio and McCollum? Sorry, CJ, I threw you into a trade. McCollum, San Antonio has Trey Jones expiring. Zach Collins, this year, next year, like $16 million.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They have a little wiggle room where they could actually make a trade and take a bigger salary back. So there's ways to finagle it where they're basically just giving up an expiring Collins, who is a guy next year they could give up. They have a million picks. I want to see the Spurs add one or two guys, and that's going to be a recurring theme for the rest of my fake trades.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
There's another version of this where it could be McCollum and Ingram together. going from New Orleans to San Antonio, and then New Orleans gets Jones, Collins, Harrison Barnes expiring, and at least one 2025 first. I want to see San Antonio do something. If you have a top seven player, you can't pretend you don't have a top seven player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
If you have tradable stuff and a million picks, what's wrong with at least tweaking it and going for it a little bit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
It's impossible to go under 500 in Wembley. What's their record now? 19 and 22. 19 and 22. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But so you're saying there's right now there's one, two, three, four, five, six. Seven teams they're definitely not catching from a loss standpoint, plus Philly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And as I've said a million times, I never trust feet injuries. I always feel like they're not being honest about how long the timetable is because I'm not sure they know. And I always go worst case scenario. Three months takes us into the playoffs. It takes us into round one. And on top of it, Lucas hurt. And I just, I thought Dallas was going to be there in the end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Okay. Well, I have another Spurs trade for you. Okay. This will never happen. None of these four trades I did, none of them are happening. This is just a fun exercise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
This is the official blow it up trade for Philly. Where San Antonio gets Paul George, Kyle Lowry, and Tyrese Maxey. Wow. Philly gets Barnes, Zach Collins, Jones, Kelvin Johnson, CP3, And a slew of firsts, like just the San Antonio, like six firsts, seven firsts, whatever you do. And basically Philly just gets out of this whole thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They do the super tank and they sell high on Maxi knowing they have McCain. This will never happen. I just want to do it as a thought experiment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah. San Antonio overpays. They pay 140 cents on the dollar, 170 cents on the dollar with all the extra picks they have, just with the end game being Maxi, Castle, Wemby, Vassell, and this is our team going forward. It'll never happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Would you still have Shepard over Castle with that pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Who do you have number one in a redraft now? Just throw all the teams out. Who do you think the best asset is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Why do you think he hasn't been better in Houston?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah. I kept all my stock. I haven't sold an ounce of Reed Shepard stock, but I love Castle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I would have taken Castle first heading into the draft. I would take him first now. I love how competitive he is. I feel like he's getting better. I think physically in like four years, I think he's just going to be like just a beast. I can't wait to see how he grows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
This is the first time I got worried.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They're going to luck out at some point. There's going to be a team going sideways that wants to rebuild and trades their expensive point guard. You know, could it three weeks ago, you could have said maybe it's Sacramento, but they kind of righted the ship a little bit, but at some point there's going to be somebody with some leverage and a team that is ready to, uh, to blow it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Anyway, that trade's never happening. So don't aggregate it. Um, did you have a fake trade that's never happening, but you still were enchanted by it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Put them in the, you're saying a chance. All right. Let's move into trades. We could actually see happening, even though if they probably won, I'll get you. What's your first one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And Simons has some Orlando connections, I think. Yes, he's from Florida. He's always been rumored as a possible magic thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I think what we've seen the last five, six games, which I've been monitoring very closely, plus the Billups quotes too. Billups seems like really fired up about him all of a sudden, but stuff's clicking. Things are happening. They're starting to move the team toward him. They're also in the tanking situation. So it's perfect. Just let him make his mistakes. But I'm with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They probably, Simon's probably needs to go for the scoop piece. I don't know what he's worth. So if you're saying like Orlando gives up a first, that's going to be a bottom half of the first round first, unless it's this year's draft because their record isn't nearly as good as it would have been because of all the injuries. So they own their own first the next six years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I would probably want this year's first from them if I traded Simons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Because going forward, they're probably going to be a top eight or nine team. So, all right, that's a fun one. My first one. I want to get Cam Johnson, who's been floated around a lot. Brooklyn clearly wants to trade him. I've decided Detroit should be the team that gets him. And Detroit has the Tim Hardaway expiring. They have a weird situation with their pick because New York owns their pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
So it's like protected and it just keeps rolling over. But then you can't trade 2025 or 26 because eventually it'll be realized in 27. So I was thinking, I wonder how the Knicks would help them out. and remove the protections from the pick so that Detroit could trade this year's pick, try to get Cam Johnson and maybe that other Knicks pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Then I started thinking, you don't see teams do this as much, but what if the Knicks traded Mitchell Robinson to Detroit as part of the deal? And as part of the deal, they got this giant trade exception and they forfeited their rights to the Detroit first. And they got Dayron Sharp back from the Nets. And they just got a backup center making $10 million less than Robinson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And then the Nets would be like, we'll give you D'Angelo Russell too. He's available. And the Knicks are going, no thanks. But is there something there where It could be a three team or not a two. The Knicks could get something out of it, cut some salary, create an exception. Maybe it's just Cam Johnson for Tim Hardaway in a pick. And it's a later pick. But is there something there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Because I feel like there is. I would like the Pistons. I want to see them get better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Detroit could actually take it because... To Detroit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I did it in the trade machine, and it all worked because there's trade exception stuff, too. Anyway, it could just be Cam Johnson and Hardaway in a pick, and we could make it easier because that works, too. I mean, I'm intrigued.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
If I were the Knicks, I'd be thinking of a way to dump Mitchell Robinson in a trade and get a cheaper big back and try to get some cap space, some apron relief, some luxury tax relief, and some flexibility with some sort of trade exception would be my dream scenario.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I just, if I'm Utah, why do I have to trade Kessler if I'm Utah? Is what I keep coming back to every time I see his name in trade rumors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Why am I trading this guy? Yeah, I'm sure you do want him. He's a young guy and a super cheap contract and he produces and he protects the rim. Why do I have to trade him? Like they're probably, I would assume they're going to try to be good next year or try to be better. How many years in a row can you throw away? Yeah, there's something there. I think the Knicks have to think that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Oh, you think they're throwing away another one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Where's the Bantz and the Brockton rankings right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
No, Hagler's got to be one, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I need to take a break before I throw this next trade at you, so we're taking a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven-layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat. In this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food, no matter what you're craving.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Well, they're screwed in this respect. Right now, they're seventh in the West. They're 23-20. Doesn't look like Luka's coming back until the All-Star break. There's teams that are just settled in way ahead of them now. The top four, Oklahoma, Houston, Memphis, Denver. I just don't think they're catching any of those teams, especially with the way Denver's playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
What if San Antonio traded for Jordan Poole and Jonas Valanciunas? and gave up Jones and Collins and a first round pick and kind of dabbled in getting better, but didn't really do it and didn't really give up anything. And if you're Washington, you're like, this is great. Now we got rid of the one guy who can actually win games for us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Um, we got rid of a center that keeps getting mentioned in these trade, but we, we know what happens with these centers. They always end up going for second round picks. Nobody gives up a first round pick for the $9 million. Pretty good center. Um, But if you're San Antonio and you could add just Jordan Poole and Valanchunas for nothing, like basically nothing, why wouldn't you do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
What if 2022 finals, Jordan Poole is really Jordan Poole and Draymond Green just punched it out of him for two years. I think he's worth taking our, it's this year and the next two on his contract. He's overpaid. There's no question. But if you're San Antonio, what do you care? You're not spending that much money anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
So now you're looking at, I don't have home court advantage any round. I don't know when Lively's coming back. They also made a lot of trades already. They don't have like a shitload of assets. You know, they've already made a lot of their moves and they would have to dip into the clay PJ Washington, like that kind of group to improve with their need to improve.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Legitimately good this year. I actually like watching them on the wizards this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Well, you can tell who's not watching the wizards when people are like, what if they can get Kyle Kuzma? And it's like, you obviously haven't watched a wizards game this year. He's been one of the worst players of the week. Nobody wants Kyle Kuzma.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I still think you want to be competitive in a real way now, which is what Preston did with OKC the last couple years, right? Yes. Just because he lucked out in a bunch of different ways. But his skill as a GM, but also guys blossoming maybe faster than he thought. But all that stuff was good for them. Those games that OKC played the last two years led to this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I think if you're San Antonio, you want to start thinking that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Can this year and next year lead to two years from now where a 60-win team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They're tough at the end of games. They have the same problem Houston has, where it's, you know, if he's not getting the ball in the right spots, it's really, or Vassell is really the only other one I kind of trust with the ball. CP's too old now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But I mean, at least I feel like he can get the shot that he wants. I don't know if it's going in. But it's really hard for them to create offense down the stretch. And Jordan Poole, no issues creating his own shot. Jordan Poole, no issues. So we're aligned on that one. I would love to see them do something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
So I'm sure their game plan is just going to be, we're probably going to be in that seven to 10 range. Let's hope lively comes back. Let's hope Luca gets going. We'll be there in the end, but pretty tough, man. If you're in those playing games and then you're on the road every round and We haven't really seen a lot of success with that recipe, KOC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Do your Zion one. You must have a Zion to the Spurs one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I'm all in. I mean, there's multiple ways that could go. I don't know how many picks would have to be involved, but I think putting Zion... I talked about this a couple weeks ago. Rolling the dice with Zion, with that team, with the spotlight of being Wembley's teammate, different organization, a lot of history, titles, Tim Duncan sitting there courtside every once in a while. I would just...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Do it. Can I give you a three-way of just kind of, it's like a Yankee swap in Christmas? Sure. Milwaukee gets Tobias Harris, making $25.3 million this year on the books for next year too. Minnesota gets Chris Middleton, $31.7 million. Detroit gets Julius Randolph, $33.1 million. This actually works in the trade machine. So Detroit's taking...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
almost $8 million extra salary to quote unquote upgrade from Harris to Randall, maybe for this year, maybe this year and next year. If you opt in Minnesota saving a little money and getting rid of the Julius Randall issue, that's kind of haunted them all season, even though I think he's a good basketball player, just doesn't make sense for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
So they would say 1.6 million, which with the tax becomes like 20 million or some crazy number and just kind of people passing stuff around. kind of like it. And Milwaukee's saving money. But I kind of like the idea of Randall on Detroit because even Monday, everyone was going nuts about Cade. Cade had 10 turnovers in that game. He has the ball all the time. He kind of needs one more person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
So you don't want Randall anywhere. Is there a team you want, Randall? Brooklyn? Brooklyn? So you think he's become a good stats, bad team guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I like saving money if I'm Milwaukee, and I like saving a little money if I'm Minnesota and getting rid of the Randall piece. And for Detroit, I think the bet would just be Randall was 24-10 and was an all-NBA forward a couple times for the Knicks and got put in one of the worst possible situations in Minnesota for him as a basketball player, where it just doesn't make sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Maybe there's an actual asset here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Oh, it's definitely partly his fault because he doesn't know how to play any other way. But that's the thing. It's like, well, maybe on a different team, there's something more here. I would think about it. But I also think Detroit probably has better moves. I like Cam Johnson for them more than Randall. But Randall's not, to me, he's not a sunk cost. Beal is a sunk cost to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I don't see a scenario where he's worth that money ever again. Randall, I'm not positive. I'm sure you do too. I know some Knicks fans who still swear by Randall and were like, guy's getting a bad rap. He was really good for us. Those people are out there. Then there's other Knicks fans who can't stand him. Give me a trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And he makes way less money than Nurkic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Portland probably has to throw something else in there to make this salary.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Nurkic for Williams. Oh, yeah, it does. I mean, I would do it just to get off the Nurkic money next year and save the luxury tax. Nurkic is... I don't know if... He's not the worst contract in the league, but when you think about... He's one of the most untradeable, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah. It was hilarious earlier in the year when the Suns fans were thinking that they could turn Nurkic into Vucevic somehow. It's like, what planet are you on? Nurkic has been awful. Nobody wants Nurkic. Now they traded for Nick Richards and he doesn't play at all. So... I would do that for both teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Cause Nurkic had, the only thing is if you're trading a center, if I'm Portland, do I want to get a center back? Is it worth it just to get a random pick? Is there a way to make that a three-way deal where Nurkic goes somewhere else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I have one more big trade, so give me one more from you before I do my big one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Danny Chow wrote about it for us. It's the most improbable relationship we've had in the NBA this decade. Jokic and Westbrook somehow like joining forces in a positive way. I don't understand it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I don't like it. And I'll tell you why. I think if that team loses in the playoffs, it's going to be because of their inability to guard wings. Right? Cam Johnson's not helping me with that. So if I'm using my last trade chip, and I agree, their shooting's great. That always helps. But I don't think he's playing crunch time for them because now I have Garland out there and Cam Johnson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Like if I'm playing Tatum and Brown, who's guarding Tatum and Brown if I'm playing those guys together? So I feel like if they're going to do a trade like that and go into the major attacks, I need somebody who can potentially guard Jason Tatum in the last five minutes of a game six in Boston. And I don't think it's Cam Johnson. That would be my count.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They're playing really well. Like, I guess that's my other question with them is, like, they seem like they all love playing with each other and they're having a great season. Like, sometimes continuity is the move, right? Mm-hmm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Maybe it's easy to defend Jalen Brown lately.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Hey, he's going to try that fall away again from the foul line. That would be great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But now I have two guys I can pick on. I'm using Cam Johnson's guy to set the screen for Garland. And it's like a feast now. Could be. It's an interesting one because on the other hand, you could say, well, we're just going to outscore everybody. Now we have Cam Johnson. We're scoring 120 points a game and we'll figure out how to get some stops.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I'd be really scared to do that much if I was Cleveland because it seems like one of the few teams we have right now that actually really likes playing with each other. How many teams when you watch these games, how many teams actually seem like they all like each other? It's less than five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They're the number one version of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Boston really likes each other, even though they're not playing that well. I'd put them on that list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I think Boston's bored right now. No question. Do you have another one? Because I have one big one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah. It's an Anthony Davis trade. The thinking is we've gone as far as we can go. We've done everything we could for you, LeBron. You've been here since 2018. We won a title together. We went and got your guy, Anthony Davis. We drafted your son and gave him a no-cut contract.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Every time you've pushed us to do something, we've done it, including the Russell Westbrook trade, which you were hands off after that happened. We've taken this as far as we can go. And we're not going to mortgage any more of the future for this because for the first time ever, the Clippers have a better arena than us. And probably a better team. And there's something cool happening with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And we're going to get back your buddy Draymond Green. Schroeder's expiring, Kaminga, Jackson Davis, Golden State's 25 and 27 firsts, and a 20, 2029 pick swap. That's LA's call. We're cashing in. What do you think?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They're getting Draymond, Schroeder, Kaminga. They get to roll dice to them. Jackson Davis. And if you're the Warriors, you still have enough left and you're going to build around Davis and Curry going down the stretch and you could probably get creative with some other moves. It's kind of fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
All right, so let's just say that this year's number one, which would be in the middle of the draft, and a 27 unprotected first. So now I don't think the Lakers do it, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I think the only team... that you could talk yourself into this being a realistic scenario as the Lakers. Because Draymond gets to live in Los Angeles and play with LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Draymond might be like, this sounds great. I've always wanted to be on the Lakers. Let's do it. I also think it's way harder to find an Anthony Davis trade that makes sense than people realize. Because I see, I have people in my life, it's time to trade Davis. It's like, where? Like you're not trading me Houston. They can't even trade Shangoon this year. Like it would have to be like this summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Right. And at that point, LeBron's 41. And, you know, people probably know you go around the league. You would have said in the past, oh, that maybe they get Carl Anthony Towns and some picks for him. But Carl Anthony Towns is playing great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And you go around the league, I think it's really hard to find the right trade for him that he'd be excited about to put him on a team that could actually win a title. Could it be Oklahoma City? No. They're not mortgaging everything for Davis when they have Shea's big contract coming up and they got to pay Jalen Williams soon. They're going to have to play Chet Holmgren soon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And they're not trading Chet for him. So you go through all the teams and I think it's way harder to figure out. I even was like, oh, Orlando will be a good one. Go look at their contracts. What's the Orlando trade? They can barely even match all the contracts to get to where AD is. So I go and say it was the only one that made sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
The problem is like the way the league is now with these different rules, it's really hard to make like a five for one, right? You need that one awesome $28 million contract that you can put in a trade like that. And they just don't have it. So they could put, you know, they could put, you said, what'd you say, Cole Anthony?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I'm not, not sure if he has 25 this year. That is pretty high. Yeah. 80, 80 is 42, $43.2 million.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Is Cerruti on this zoom or no? Carter has a trade description. Cerruti, pop on for a second. Let's talk this out. What's up, guys? You knew this was coming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I think you'd have to do four unprotected firsts. Probably throw in the Denver first that you have that rolls over and then maybe a swap. How many picks is that, KOC?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Can I pause button you right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
You'd have a starting front line of 80. No, hello. And France, the timeline is like now when all those guys come back, I don't want to play that team. You're right. See that team in a playoff series. The timeline is this year. If you do that, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
KOC, this is the part where I remind you that the Knicks traded five first-round picks for Mikael Bridges.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah, but here's the flip side of this is why it was stupid to give up on Denver a month ago. If you have one of the best six players in the league, you just have to be taken seriously in the playoffs. So the question for me is, Can he get back to the right shape? When can Lively come back? Can they sneak out? Like, if they're playing Houston in round one at 2-7, they could beat Houston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They have Shengdun and a bunch of stuff and go get them in July.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They're jumping the line and grabbing them now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
It would be a better case if you were like... I'm not sure we should trade for Anthony Davis, who was super injury prone during the year that Palo and Franz both suffered the exact same injury and Mo Vonder got hurt and Suggs got hurt. We do not want to bring our karma to Anthony Davis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah, what's Anthony Davis' oblique situation? Is it okay? Oh my God. He just meets those guys and he like strains it. Orlando is the only other one. I went through everybody else. I just, you know, there's like Sacramento. If you could do like a Sabonis Davis like that. But I don't know where that gets either team. You know, I think it's Orlando.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I will say this. That trade I laid out. if that actually happened, would be one of the most fun trade moments of the 21st century. There's so much going on in that trade in all different directions that it just feels like we would talk about that for 10 straight days. Thanks to Rudy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
KOC, any last trades before we go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I know, but how many contenders, teams that actually have a chance to win the title are a realistic option for a 40-year-old guy making $50 million a year with no trade clause? I can't find a single team. Even if you said like, oh, Cleveland, he wants to come back home. It's like, if I'm Cleveland, do I want to? That's a pretty aggressive reshaking of the roster. I wouldn't do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I don't know if Houston has another gear. So I'm sure they're not totally panicking yet, but... It's not great. You know, and you think like Lucas 26 now, they made the finals last year. They really went all in on this season and Oklahoma City kind of took their spot. But yeah, I'm not, I'm not a full level panic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah. Well, also, like, you have such a good thing. Now you're bringing somebody who, you know, the two generations of guys in the league like Revere. It's really hard for him to be like, all right, just set some picks and hit a couple corner threes for us like he's going to have the ball. Um, I don't know what the team is for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
So, and I don't, I don't, I don't think he wants to leave LA anyway. So it's not realistic. Davis as a trade is more realistic to me, but, um, I just don't, the Lakers organization, I just, I don't understand why they kowtow to these guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Now the Lakers are taking Beal. I don't want to turn LeBron into Beal. No, thank you. Also, if you're the Lakers and you trade LeBron, all of a sudden your games, if you're going to actually rebuild Or you're going to blow it up or whatever. People go to the games to see LeBron. He's one of the greatest players in the history of the league. That's still a draw.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And they're still in this mix where they seem relevant. People who don't actually watch basketball that much think they're still a contender. And there's an illusion of competitiveness that is... To me, not real, but you at least have that. Once you start blowing this up, now you're where you were in the mid-2010s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
He's not close to being the same guy that he used to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But LeBron doesn't play defense anymore. I don't understand how anyone could put him in the top 12 to 15 at this point. So you don't have him up there? I don't. I don't. I would have him in the top 25. But I think it's really hard to beat good teams When you have multiple holes on defense, like they have, I think that's a fair statement.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Like when they have, they're playing Reeves and connect and LeBron all at the same time. It's like, you can't play defense that way. So, and I'm not, what position is the perfect position for him? Ideally, right? It's the four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And then you have really playing with them. Really, you want to have perimeter guys and you want shooting. But that would mean LeBron would have to guard bigger guys and rebound more and step up on that. And it just doesn't seem like he has enough in the tank to do that anymore. So they're in a weird conundrum with him because he gets his stats. You can catch the right night. He looks great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But I don't see it night to night. And we get to the playoffs. It's every other game. You know, so if, like, if I was the Lakers advisor, would either of us say, like, you guys have a chance to make the finals with this team? You're one move away? I don't think they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I don't like the fact that they're not going to have home court any round, every round. And I also don't know what the trade move is. So next one is Philly. who is borderline shut it down territory, but you also look at the East and it's like, yeah, they could make the playing game. And what if they have those guys in mid-April and they're all healthy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
You would need so much luck. You'd need an OKC injury. You'd need something weird to happen. You'd have to go down and there would have to be a dumb thing that happened with...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Yeah. It's tough when you win the title, you go one of two ways. You can either come out the next season, like a bat out of hell, or you just assume you could turn it on anytime you want. And they've, they started out one way and I think they've settled into the other way where it's like, we're, we're fine. We're fine. I don't like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
They don't have home court in the last two rounds, the way this is shaken out though. I don't think that's nothing, you know, it's all fine until it's game six at home with a game seven in the other place, you're down three, two for the series and you fall behind by like nine in the second quarter. And the fans are like, Oh my God, like our season might, We'll see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I'd like to see them have one streak, KOC, because I think that's what separates the real teams from everybody else. These teams that could just rip off 11 straight, 12 straight. Last year, they were a 25-game winning streak threat for every month of the season, and this year they can't play five good games in a row. Who worries you most besides Cleveland in the East? Still Milwaukee? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Milwaukee always because Giannis. Orlando a little bit because of the defense. I'm still like Orlando. I'm not just saying this to make Cerruti's night. Orlando's just kind of hanging out over there with this crazy defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And I don't really know what the answer is, but the big thing is their first pick is top six protected, which everybody's been talking about all week. And I thought about how OKC gets that pick, right? If it's like seventh in a really good draft, then I'm sure you've become fascinated by. This is the Sam Presti revenge on Daryl Morey. The James Harden trade, 2012, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
The defense scares me because this Celtics team can look really clumsy and really static, and the toilet ball offense can go into full effect. And with all those guys they have, they have just guys to throw at Tatum and Brown. And I don't like the way the guards on the Celtics have played for two months. We're taping this before I go to the Clipper game tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
and I'm going to the Laker game tomorrow night, I really want to see it in person. Like, are these guys, do they look different athletically? Is this just a funk that's going on? So I guess we'll find out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And the Knicks, obviously... I wouldn't look forward to seeing them in a series either because they have good basketball players. And Brunson's really good. And Towns has been playing great. So, you know, I do think when you play that team for two weeks, a little easier to figure out. But, you know, the East is way better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
You think last year was like a walk in the park, which wasn't their fault, but that's what it was. This year, a little different. Milwaukee, we'll see if they make one more move, too. The team they have right now, I wouldn't be afraid of, but they're one move away from me being more afraid, right? If they were to get Levine, That would be scary because he kills the Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
All right, KFC, good to see you again. You can follow his podcast, subscribe, listen to it, and you can read him on Yahoo as well. Great to see you. Great to see you too, Bill. Have a good night. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to KOC. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And I will be back tomorrow night with yet another podcast. We're going heavy on the football tomorrow, as you would probably expect. See you in 24 hours. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And it became this thing that became this curse over OKC. And they never got to the finals. And Darryl kind of made his career in a lot of ways. The flip side of this, OKC gets this pick because Philly has to dump Al Horford, right? And now this pick is paralyzing Philly with their decisions because...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
you maybe want to just throw away the season and yet you can, if Embiid is going to be healthy in two weeks. So what do you do if you're Philly?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
No, but I'm saying is, would Tobias Harris listen to this and be like, yo, I've been better than Paul George. At least I played him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
There's no way they're going to be the seven or the eight seed. they're going to be nine or 10, but they could still sneak in because they'd have to win two playing games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
And it's going to be either Nurse or Daryl. And I don't know which one it's going to be, but we're very close at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
No, they don't seem like they... We've seen this happen over the course of the NBA history. Don Nelson was a great coach. He took over the Ewing Knicks at one point in the mid-90s. And I think he lasted like 45 games. It just didn't work. I don't know if it's that bad for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But when you don't have two of your best three guys basically never playing, you know, they had this huge stretch last week. It was like four and five against all good teams. And Embiid missed all the games. And then they were like, he's probably out at least another week. If you look at their schedule, any game where he would come back, it's a good team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
There's always like a Boston or a Cleveland. There's somebody on there. And I don't think he's going to come back until he's healthy. I don't think he wants to come back at his ass kick. So I don't know if you're Nick Nurse, what do you do on that? But the Paul George piece is the shocking thing. I guess we should have known he's been in the league a while that it was possible, but I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
He was always hit or miss, but he hit and he's not hitting anymore. There's it's more misses or I forgot you were out there than hits.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did a Rewatchables mailbag. I had a great time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Who do you think is the most relieved? Orlando? The Clippers? I wonder who else would have been in the mix on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Would you use McCain, who's out for the year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Long-term, McCain-Maxie is your backcourt? Is that a backcourt that makes sense to you from a basketball standpoint?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
I have Paul George coming up later when we get to the fake trade section of this podcast because it's a fascinating topic. So we agree, Philly's not shutting it down. They still have a chance to be a 9 or a 10 seed. If they can get all those guys healthy for two months, that's still the plan. And if I'm Daryl Morey, like that's a better chance than keeping my fingers crossed in the lottery. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Next one. New Orleans is in what the fuck land where they suck. But now that all their guys are back, they're actually like pretty solid and really talented. And Trey Murphy's been playing great. And they might be too talented to be a full tank team. I'll have Brooklyn and teams like that. They have some good trade assets. Ingram as an expiring is hurt right now. Zion year to year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
You can get out CJ McCollum overpriced, but reasonable to, for somebody who needs a scoring something. And then I guess Murray, that roster doesn't really make sense. I don't even know what the move is. What do they do? What do you do if you're running new Orleans?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
See, now he's going to be upset at me again because he thinks I always throw him in trade rumors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Especially now that he's hurt. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor
Thanks to everybody who sent in emails. We came up with new categories, couple theme months, slightly tweaked the structure of the show. Had some laughs. It was me and Chris Ryan and producer Craig Horlbeck. If you want to watch that, it is on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. If you want to watch anything from this podcast, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We did not do a podcast Tuesday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Welcome to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. So I went to the Lakers game last night. It was my first Luka Doncic in-person experience. I got to see some of the number 77 jerseys. Did I look around and wonder, are there more 77s than 23s in the audience? I might've looked at a couple sections and wondered about it, but something cool really happened during the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
But the buzz in the arena, And I've been going to Laker games. I moved here in November 2002. The only other time I felt it at a Laker game like that was when Kobe was playing. And I remember the first time I moved to LA in mid-November and I went to a Laker game maybe two weeks later. Somebody brought me. I'd never been to a Laker game before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They have to get to year two, not the Browns. Correct. The people making the pick have to get to year two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So we're checking a bunch of different boxes that make the NFL draft and the NBA draft so much fun, right? Yes. There's desperation. You have decision makers like, I might not be here in a year. What's my big swing? Well, we have no salary cap space. I have the second pick in the draft. Nobody's really going to probably trade up for this. And even if they do, I won't have a quarterback.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
We're going 6-11, 7-10 next year. See that. You have the Miles Garrett piece who is going to leave, get a trade. Yep. Something happened. He gave that one interview where they asked him, are you comfortable with what's going to happen to quarterback? And he's like, oh, yes, I am. I was like, oh, what is it? Why is he comfortable now? There's no free agent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Russell Wilson's not making him comfortable. I wouldn't flag that one. Then you have Sanders playing footsie on social media with the top Indians prospect, which I thought was notable. You had the dad... who if his son goes second in the NFL draft, it's more money, it's more prestige, all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah, and as people listen to this, they're going to be like, well, of course Simmons wants him to go second because that's going to push out the two best guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You know, grew up going to Celtic games, East Coast my whole life. Just had always hated the Lakers, hated the Showtime, never really understood it. And... I go to this game and the thing that jumped out to me, it was Kobe and Shaq. It was, you know, there was right after they'd won the three Pete, they lose the meadow three season, but it's Kobe and Shaq. It's, typical really good home game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, to be fair, this started in Cleveland. Like there's people that cover the team. There's people who follow the team. And they're just kind of reading the tea leaves. And it's for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. It's really the only chance for them to get a quarterback who might make it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And this is the most fun part of the stretch for the draft where you have 50-50 odds usually with a quarterback this high, right? This might be 40-60. But you start looking hard at the 40. You're like, well, Stefanski. Well, we have a good foundation around him. Well, we have no chance to get a quarterback. What if we can turn him into something? Like, you know, Rosillo has a theory.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
He would just take a quarterback every year in the first round, I think. Because it's like, let's just keep throwing the darts. And at some point, you hit the balloon. In this case, if you're them, you have no other way to get a quarterback. And you are absolutely murdered by the Deshaun thing. The Giants won...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
That's a little tough for one because they're not in the same salary cap hell that the Browns are in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They're in the same desperation thing, right? If they hit on Sanders, they could save the jobs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
This isn't Mitch Trubisky either because this kid comes with real fame already. People have watched him in college. They've watched him do good things. They like his dad. He's got some pizzazz. Whereas like Trubisky, it's like, hey, he started 13 games and he's like Darko Milicic basically. Hey, on paper, this guy's amazing and there's really no evidence at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
The thing that jumped out to me just sitting there was like, oh my God, these fans love Kobe. They love him. And it was my big takeaway from the night. And there's reasons for that. He's drafted by the team. He's a teenager. They get to watch him go through the stages. Then they win titles with him. Shaq shows up from Orlando. He'd been there
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And he's also had a big spotlight on him for the last couple of years. And abnormally large for QB. There's one other piece. So you were talking about how he didn't do well in a couple of those interviews. Or the vibes were off and it...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
No, just like, hmm, doesn't seem like he's that interested in coming to our team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So there's an NBA version of this during the COVID draft when LaMelo ends up going second to Charlotte. And the story I always heard was they have to do Zoom interviews and it's like the most fucked up draft process ever. And they do the LaMelo thing and he's just really off in it. And he's distant and just seems like he doesn't really give a shit about the Warriors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And it affected how they thought about whether they should take him or not. And then it turns out he probably knew he was going Charlotte. He probably wanted to go there. And you kind of perform what your expectations are for where you want to go, right? So if it's a team, and I can totally see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
If it's a team you don't really want to go to, you turn into Tom Cruise in Risky Business where you're like, I don't really want to go to University of Illinois. I want to go to Princeton. So if he has an inkling, that he could go second. He knows in Cleveland, like obviously LeBron was there, like you can become a big star in Cleveland, but I can see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And it's a good situation because their team wasn't bad last year. Like it's not, they're not that far away from being a little more impactful maybe if they had a decent QB.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And there's no trade-up team, we don't think, because the Raiders got Geno. I don't think that the Jets just went in on fields. I don't see them trading up anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Oh, it seems like he's the Bo Nix of this draft. Absolutely. Bo Nix ends up going, what, 12? He went 12. It seemed inconceivable. He was second round, second round, second round. Oh, maybe late first round. Then all of a sudden he's 12.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Another team that's in salary cap hell and just completely screwed and have to get a quarterback somehow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I don't know, four years in Orlando, comes to the Lakers. So he's a little bit of a hired gun, kind of like LeBron now. And they love both of them together, but they really love Kobe. And you could feel that during the rest of the run. Especially the 06 season, I remember going to a bunch of games that year. It was after the trial.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, in the McShay Report, a very excellent newsletter that everybody should subscribe to. It pops right into your... It's like, I woke up this morning, seven o'clock, looking at text, Celtic Salt and Sudden God Salt. Then your newsletter came. I'm like, what a great morning. I haven't eaten that coffee yet. It's kind of nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You have the Giants trading up to 19 for Dart. You have fake trade. 34 and 65 and a 26 third rounder to the Bucs. Yeah. For pick number 19. So in that scenario, the two quarterbacks go one, two. They take Hunter third. And I want to talk about that in a second. And then move up and take Dart. And now they're like, we've got Dart. We've got neighbors. Yo, Travis Hunter. Who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Maybe he'll play both sides of the ball. And all of a sudden now there's energy with the Giants.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, and let me stop you one second there. Yeah. I refuse to read another mock draft that doesn't have those four going in some order. I still see drafts from like good places where they're like number four Patriots, Will Campbell, and then Jacksonville takes Abdul Carter at five. And I'm like, I promise you that's not happening. No, no. If Abdul Carter isn't four, they're taking Abdul Carter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So don't buy the jersey yet. Tell my buddy Jay Buck, like, don't buy it yet. Wait till, like, end of April.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
But Hunter makes a whiff more sense for the Giants, but I thought you laid it out correctly. It makes a little more sense, but if they took Carter, it's not like that's stupid. They would just have an amazing defensive line.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They weren't very good, but he just single-handedly scores 35 points a game. And just at some point after everything that happened with him, in Colorado, it changed the tenor of the relationship of the fans with him in a way that people were like, this is our guy. We are sticking with him through thick and thin. Shaq's gone. Our team's not going to be very good, but this is our guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, you put him and neighbors together just from an athlete standpoint.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah, otherwise you're looking at a trade back. And in a trade back, I don't know who's trading up and what you're getting. I mean, I told you my dream trade would be the Jets move up to four. Pats get Garrett Wilson. Pats give up their second round pick. So it's basically seven and 39 for... you know, for like, whatever the Pats end up with seven and Garrett Wilson in the deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And I'm like, I'd sign up for that. Why would the jets do that? I have no idea, but that's my, that's where you lose me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I can't listen. I can't apologize for my dreams. No, not at all. But the thing with the Pats is, I'm not, I'm not a big draft for need guy when you're not one guy away from winning the Superbowl. This Pat's thing is going to be like a three year, you know, completely. They don't need to be like, we need a left tackle because that way we'll go eight and nine next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Like they just need, they need awesome players and it really doesn't matter what position they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You're taking him three, four spots too high, but you kind of have to do it. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
No, it's Lombardi's old thing about blue chippers. We call them red chippers. And then the guys below that. But the teams that usually are around the Super Bowl sniffing around, you look and they have five, six, seven, eight blue chippers. Yes. The Pats only have Gonzalez and Drake May right now. Plus the nose tackle they got from the Eagles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, don't you think we'll know? We'll know with Cleveland and Sanders, right? That's not going to leak out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And you could really feel it that 06 season. And, you know, the only time I can remember where the basketball player was bird with the Celtics, where it was just like, 100% approval rating. Everybody's all in. This is our guy. We believe he can do anything. And I felt like Kobe got to the point with the fans, really in the mid-2000s, you could feel it the most. And there was always buzz with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
There's a lot of people with interest in that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
But still, until you hear the name, you're not going to... Because the only thing that worries me is, are the Browns... And I would do this if I ran a team. Do you pretend you're drafting Sanders because you want to see if the Giants are going to flip out and maybe offer you something to flip picks with you? And you wanted Abdul Carter all along.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I always feel like... Yeah, of course. I'm just going to represent that I'm going to potentially take somebody... But the Giants would know...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
But they could say, if you don't swap picks with us, we have somebody that's coming in hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yes. And then you have the Giants are now trying to use all their intel, like find out from our guy in the Jets how real this is. And that's what makes the draft so much fun. You're basically all playing poker with each other. But it's some of the worst poker players who ever lived. Yes. So the biggest questions are Carter versus the other than the QBs, Carter versus Hunter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Just who has more value? And that really seems like whoever just needs whatever they do more, but they're pretty equal. You have Carter above Hunter, but not by a shitload, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And this is also our best chance to get a number one receiver because we struck out trying to get all these different guys. Now you're looking at Stefan Diggs and Brandon Ayuk and people are coming off major injuries. It gets a little. And it's a receiver draft that sucks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
It sounds like such a fun wrinkle for whoever gets him, where if you play him at receiver, but he's also like your dime back. And it's just like, he's in now. Oh my God, he picked one off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I was like, oh my God, are they going to throw it to him? Right. So that would be cool. This tournament season, Fando has given you the power to take control of your bets and introducing the bet back token, the ultimate game changer that lets you bail on any bet that's not going your way by turning it into bonus bets. It's simple. One of your bets is not heading in the right direction in the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And that year was the year that he had that huge Toronto game, the 81. But in general, he was a threat to do whatever night after night after night. LeBron, as great as he is, was always like a totality of what he was doing. If you love basketball, how do you not absolutely love what he's doing? But the ultimate LeBron game would be like 32 points, 15 assists, 12 rebounds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
The Q6 e-tron is not just the new EV. It's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. Then the draft really starts at five. Yeah. And you had Mason Graham going to the Jags in mock draft 2.0. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Luka came out. He always tests these first quarters. And this is something he always did in Dallas too. You kind of want to watch the first quarter of a Luka game because you never know what the ceiling is going to be. Like at some point, he's going to score 75 points in a game. It's going to happen. And he usually tests that first quarter to see how much he's feeling it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Right. So I was going to say that the boys to stay kid at six to the Raiders, but then you also love Hampton and we could have two running backs in the top 12, even though one of the only things we've learned about the draft is don't take running backs that high. Right. It's, it's a disposable position. Like I was looking at the 2016 draft in the NFL. Don't ask why.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And like everybody in that draft seems so old now, like Zeke Elliott's in it. 2016 draft is like not that long ago. Like Jalen Brown was in the 2016 draft. And he's just hitting the prime of his career. And Zeke Elliott seems like he's 48. So you think about that with running backs and it's like, all right, so I'm going to draft somebody that I have for six years. I get Mason Graham.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
He might play till he's 36. he might, he might have two giant contracts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah. So if you're taking a running back, that guy, that high, you better think it's like, this is Saquon Barkley, B. John Robinson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So if Will Campbell had 34-inch arms, he'd be the fourth pick in the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
It's a little like Jokic. We're not gonna tell our grandkids we were at a game where Jokic had 30, 20, and 15. It's amazing to watch. There's something different when somebody might have the chance to really go off. It's the rarest thing in basketball. And there was that feeling in there for a couple minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
If you were a GM, would you ever take a running back in the top 12?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I don't think I would either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
That's my dream scenario for the third round for the Pats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You know this though, when there's too many... Guys start dropping because nobody ends up taking, like even think about last year with the wide receivers that got so stupid and the Pats ended up with the 10th guy in the first 35 picks who was a receiver. Right. You know, I think there's a, they know all of a sudden Cooper goes to the Eagles at 39. He's the third best defensive back on the board.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I don't know. I just feel like when there's a glut, it really fucks things up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
But I would say the Gibbs and the success Detroit had with him as a weapon would make people think like, ah, maybe in the 12 to 15 range. I always look with the draft, you know, and I'm already starting to think about NFL over-unders and the win totals. And can somebody get, like when the Eagles got Jalen Carter that year, it's like, oh, that's getting that guy at nine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Jesus, like that might affect. And when you look at the teams that are picking the first 15. Yep. The one that jumped out to me was the team you mentioned, the Bears. And I have no idea if they're going to be good. And they're in a brutal division. And who knows with Caleb. But they spent a lot of money. They have the QB on the rookie scale.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And then if they just crush the 10th pick somehow and got somebody awesome, then you just have to start thinking like, ah, look at this. Like that Tyler Warren, the tight end. I don't know where he's going to go. He could go five. He could go 12. But like... if they got him at 10, that's somebody that could play right away and be, you know, potentially like an impact dude right away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So that was the team I was looking at. And then the only other one was, uh, was Atlanta just cause I think Atlanta with Pennix and they have some talent, the division sucks. Like if they are able to nail that pick, that could be a good one too.
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So it was that plus, you know, there's performance with him where Los Angeles just makes sense As a team that he plays for, he's working the crowd. At one point in the first quarter, some guy in red, he got fouled. And Luka has 20 at that point. He gets fouled. The guy, this dumbass with the drinks, like, ball don't lie.
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Yeah.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I can't believe that. Well, that's what with TMAC, I wonder like, this is the reverse of a glut. When there's nobody at a position, he's the only probably first round graded wide receiver. He's one of the only two that you could even see going in there. And somebody just needs a receiver and you get people in our office like, ah, fuck it, we need a receiver. And all of a sudden he's going 11th.
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you know, cause we see that version of the draft too. I just like, wow, you're taking them here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So does somebody look better if there's not, if there's not a lot of competition in a draft and then they start to look like the hottest girl at the bar?
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So you have two, okay.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
All right, two more questions.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I've watched some YouTube on him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Feel a little burned after a poke last year in the 30s with the receiver. I'm hurt. My guard's up.
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Second to last question. Who is the holy shit, this guy's going here, top 15 guy, if you had to guess, the guy who just goes 10, 11 spots higher than you ever could imagine. Last year, it would have been Bo Nix. If we were talking about that draft, five weeks for the draft, and you said Bo Nix is going to go 12, I would have been like, what? That's insane. He's not going 12.
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Who is the that's insane guy?
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Um, is there a weird left tackle? Like maybe on paper guy that we're not, that could be late. Like memo already.
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And Luka hears it and he turns around and he starts talking to the guy, talking shit to him. And now he's just interacting with this whole section. He does things... That I think are pretty rare from a basketball standpoint. He does hear the crowd. He does interact with people. He does talk shit. He talks shit to the refs. He talks shit to everybody he's playing against.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Last question. Russillo stretches for a half hour, goes out to Manhattan and tries to run the 40. But he's stretched. He's limber and he's ready. And we have scouts there and a stopwatch. What is Russillo running right now in the 40?
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Because he's really got a lot of muscle right now, which I think would hurt for the speed, but it also may help. Maybe he's in great shape.
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So publicly, you'll go 493.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
What weightlifting out of all those things they do in that, what would he crush? The bench press.
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The bench. So huge bench press. That's what the teams are talking about after. Like, Jesus, Rosillo benched 580. But I don't see him as a fullback. So I'm trying to figure out where we're going to roll him. Oh, you see him like a, what was that guy in the Niners? Jusek?
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Like a guy Belichick would have taken in 2007, just like I just want him for special teams.
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I like his attitude.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
He's still mad about it. We'll talk about it all the time. All right, McShay, subscribe to his newsletter. It's great. Listen to the McShay Show. Also great. You can find that on YouTube as well. Great to see you as always. All right, YouTube. Chris Mannix is here. You can read him on Sports Illustrated. You can listen to his podcast. What's the podcast called? Open Floor still? Open Floor, yeah.
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Like he almost got into it at one point with Peyton Watson. And you're watching. It's like, oh, watch out. Luke is pissed now. He just feels like he belongs in LA. And that was my big takeaway. I was thinking about like, if you're going to have the perfect Laker for central casting, You'd want somebody who's a little polarizing, which Luka is, right?
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Open Floor. Where was that on the title list as you were coming up with title names? The top one were like two taken. Titles are so hard now.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They're like, no, got to keep going. Speaking of basketball, an eight episode HBO drama could be written about the Celtics sale. where we found out today $6.1 million to somebody that 12 hours ago, nobody knew who he was. I mean, probably some rich people knew who he was. People knew he was the final bidder, but now Bill Chisholm is going to be the next owner of the Boston Celtics.
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He paid a record price. It was not an accident. where Washington, the commanders went for 6.05, Celtics go for 6.1. I have a million thoughts, but what was your immediate reaction to the price?
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My first reaction, because I love being right, was I was saying last summer that this was going to get to six and that's what the NBA wanted. And guess what? It got to six. I think that was a huge thing for the NBA with the expansion coming. Six has to be the number. That's what we want.
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I think it was a big thing for the family, especially Irv, the 90-year-old legend, who was not going to have any sort of inside job. There's a whole Steve Pagliuca, who's the number two owner of the Celtics right now, that everybody assumed he was going to get it. And I can't wait to dive into that piece with you. It was made clear from the beginning. There's no inside job.
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This will go to the highest bidder. The most money wins this. And nobody really believed it, but that's how it played out. And it got to 6-1. And my guess is that The Pagluca group and maybe even one or two of the other ones got to the six. The point one is so fascinating to me. The point one, sometimes this is how it goes. This is how Larry Elson lost the Warriors.
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Where it's like, no, he had it, he had it, he had it. Then the other side, I think, went to, I forget what it was, like 400, 360, whatever it was. And he's like, nope, that's my final offer. And he didn't get it. And over and over again, the guys that get these teams are the ones that are like, oh, you want to break the Washington record? All right. All right. Point one. Done. And that was it.
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That's how he got it. So the Steve Pack Luga piece is incredible that he didn't get it and that he came really close and he did a long post today that was posted on social media. That was, I think, one of the strangest posts I've ever read from somebody who didn't own a team. I couldn't believe he did that.
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Great player, hasn't won the title yet, little out of shape, doesn't really play defense, will have quarters where he just looks terrible, then a quarter where he's awesome, and there's always the potential of something more And he's still great. He's still one of the five best players in the league. But it's like, I wonder what else is there. So you have that.
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OK, but this is the number one thing I want to talk about. Go ahead. Well, it's just so you have these two guys. Wick's dad puts up the most money for the team. Wick's the one that's organized in the group. And it starts out, I think, with four people that put up the money.
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They they get the price and then their job after they get the price is to then go find a group of minority people to then take off offload some of the money they just committed to, which, by the way. That's what Chisholm's doing right now. He's trying to, he is now, he's already put the feelers out.
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He's trying to put together a little syndicate to offload some of the money that he's already promised. So that's in motion now. So they get the four, but Paggs was always, it was like Wick and he's the owner and the dad put up the most money, but also here's Paggs. And they've had this uneasy co-owner alliance, but Wick was always the face of it.
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And it was always a little awkward and you could feel it when they were like a trophy. You know, that's when that Lazarie and Eden's had that too. Some of these co-owner like Goober and Lakob, same thing where it's like, it's my team, but you have to be here and you hold, let's hold the trophy together. And it's always super awkward.
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And I don't know how great it was going by the end, because I think when, when Pagliuca tried to buy the Nets, And I don't think Wick found out from PagLuca is my understanding. And I don't think it's been great since then. And I think the reverse of that was PagLuca found out that the Celtics were being sold the same way we all did. It was, it was, he was not tipped.
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You have the performance aspect, which Kobe was unbelievable at. And LeBron's great at too. But Kobe, there was a demeanor to him at these games, especially as he really bought into it. That was just awesome. You have the no ceiling in any game you go to with Luka. which I think is as rare as it gets. And it's the thing that I think made Curry so special the last 10 years.
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He was not giving a heads up. So I don't think that relationship has been great for the last year. And this specifically, the way he reacted to the sale tells me that this is, this is going to get ugly. And I have some reasons for why this got bad near the end, but what else have you heard on this?
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Well, so I think he, from what I had heard, he had the money to get to five, which is where they were hoping it was going to be in the fives because that's a realistic price for a franchise that doesn't have an arena.
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The growth spec side wanted more. They wanted more. They're pushing the number up. And I think one of the ways this really went sideways, there was a moment in this process where stuff was getting leaked out about the sale and there was an unflattering piece about
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you know, that it came out and I don't even know what Wicks exact stake is, but how small Wicks stake allegedly was with the Celtics and they're shooting too high and there was stuff. And I, I don't think that went great for pegs and whether, whatever he may have done or not done.
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And he, maybe he did nothing, but I think there was a feeling that somebody was trying to neg the price and make it lower to try to make it. And I think you look at 90 year old or gross back and, who's like one of the great business people, the last, like really respected, respected as a thinker. And he's tutored a bunch of people and he's a mentor to a lot of people.
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And he's just, he's rich for a reason. And I don't think it went over very well. That stuff started coming out that they wanted too much for the team. Cause ultimately who's saying that it's either, it's like the Fenway group who I don't think ever was going to try to do it anyway, or somebody that was already actively trying to buy the team. And there weren't a lot of people at that point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So I think from the moment that happened, when those stories came out, It started to get dicey. And there's a lot of people in the organization who are rooting for him to get it because he was stability. It's like if he comes in, everything will remain the same. And I think when that happened, people started getting nervous.
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I do think I was kind of rooting for him, too, because I wanted things to stay somewhat the same.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
It's like, am I at the game right now where Curry's going to hit 15 threes? Am I at the game right now where Curry's going to get 70? There's a one-on-one aspect with Luka that I think is important. There's nobody in the league remotely like him. like remotely, all the stuff he's doing. Like he got in the first eight minutes of the game I went to last night.
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That's why we don't we don't know how it leaked out or what happened. But I think once it happened, It changed the tenor of this whole thing where they were like, okay, fuck, fuck all you people. Now we're going to get the price we want. Um, and there, you mentioned like there were a lot of people kicking the tires on it. You know, it was double figures. It got whittled down to five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Lori was in it, the Eagles owner. And then for whatever reason, dropped out right after the Superbowl or before the Superbowl, right around the Superbowl. I think it was after, who knows? Um, but it went from five to four. And Chisholm was the mystery guy to me. Even if you were Googling him today, there just isn't a lot of information about him. He grew up on the North Shore, went to Dartmouth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
His son plays soccer at Dartmouth and graduated in 19. He's on this weird tech fund, hedge fund thing, and he's apparently a huge Celtics fan. And that's all we know. But this is why it's so amazing when somebody buys a team like the Celtics. You go from I could walk by you and have no idea who you are to now you're one of the Kings of Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And I think that's, I think Wicks had a really hard time with that over the last year, knowing that there's some end game where when you're the owner of the Celtics, the room treats you a little differently than when you're not. And I think he's aware of that.
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Granted, Denver's missing their two best guys, but he beats everybody off the dribble for eight minutes in a row. And he's doing the herky-jerky stuff. He's banging people. It's like, it felt like he could post up whoever he wanted. He could go by whoever he wanted. He could make 27 footers. Oh, and he's an awesome passer too. So you have that.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So his statement, and it was funny because they released this statement from Boston Business Partners, which is the group that owns the team. Witt's the first quote in it. And he says that Chisholm asked me to run the team as CEO and governor for the first three years and stay on as his partner. stay on as his partner. And I'm glad to do so. And then the next paragraph is a quote from Chisholm.
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I've never seen somebody buy a team and not be the first quote in the press release. Everybody was saying Wick was trying to do this, and it seems like he actually pulled it off. And you mentioned the Cuban piece. I never believed that as it was happening, it seemed inconceivable to me that somebody was going to buy a sports team.
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And then just let somebody who didn't know that we've, we just don't see that really happened ever. And the times we've seen it happen, we're like Pat Croce and the Sixers, you'd be the government. And then it would always go badly within a year. So it says three years. It doesn't mean it's going to be three years.
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So if I gave you like the FanDuel over under, and I gave you the two and that like, like boxing two and a half rounds, is it, would you go over under? If you gave me two and a half for the over under, I don't know what I'd bet. I go under.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So it's Chisholm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
No, I don't know. How were you saying it? We know so little about this guy. I don't even know how to pronounce his name. I thought it was Chisholm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Can he put a social media thing on and be like, here's how to pronounce my name? Please call me Bill. I refuse to believe his name's William. It's got to be Bill. His son's name's Will, which tells me he's a Bill. So here's one of the many things that I don't get about this. For that kind of price... and you're not going to quote unquote, be the governor for the first three years.
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You have the Hollywood redemption comeback story because the Mavericks gave up on him You could say they traded him, they got a lot back. Well, obviously they didn't get a lot back, but they gave up on him. They didn't believe that they could win a title with him. They didn't want to pay him $330 million. LA loves that. You have the Lakers... outwitted another team to get him, which is it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, now he's in his mid fifties. He graduated from Dartmouth in 91. So he's in, this is prime NBA owner, NFL owner range, like from mid fifties, all the way through to mid seventies, a 20 year run. He's got the son. I have no idea if the son's going to be groomed to have a role with Pat Gluka. His son, I think would have been a big part of it.
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We'll see with this same thing with if Lori had gotten it, I think his son would have been a big part of it. Um,
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I just find it hard to believe you're going to buy this team, do the victory lap, do the press conference, figure out where your tickets are, have these huge decisions like, oh my God, if we get bounced in round two of the playoffs, we're losing a shitload of money on top of this $200 million luxury tax bill that's coming. Let me just turn over all the decision-making to Wick. That seems crazy.
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And we haven't really seen it happen in anything else. So I'm like you. I'm watching it. I'm skeptical.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So some of the questions that are left is, was this the highest offer? I'm going to assume it was. Had to be. But he's doing a lot of debt and all this stuff to, to, whereas I, cause I thought it was notable. Pat Gluka said in this thing, we had a real offer. He sounded like a guy who didn't get the house he thought he was going to get. It's like, I had a real offer. I offered you all cash.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't understand why you went with this other person. They didn't offer you all cash. Um, I don't understand the WIC part at all. And there's another piece of this too. And I'm sure you've been around the team a lot. He's pretty devastated that they're selling in the first place. And he's talked about it pretty openly to people that ask him about it.
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So he does it in this Lakers game. They're playing Denver. There's no Jokic. There's no Murray because God forbid you go to an NBA game and see all the stars on both teams. There's no LeBron either. Luka comes out. He scores 20 of the first 33 points.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And it's been a theme that has been going around the last couple of months that his dad pushed for this, his dad wanted to do it for the estate planning, all this stuff they said. But I think especially with winning the title last year, the team being really good this year, I think Wicks had a really hard time with this. Even harder than maybe he's let on publicly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So just staying on now for two more years, but knowing that there's an endgame, it's a really weird variable. I'm excited because he's a great owner and I hope he stays on and has the same impact he had, but... It's weird. It's weird to feel bad for somebody who just sold something for $6.1 billion, but I just don't think he wanted to sell. I don't.
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I gotta be honest. It feels like the Laker fans have their swagger back a little because, you know, you think like really since the Kobe Nash Howard year, and then they just sucked forever and they drafted in the top four and the picks were like pretty hit or miss and they missed out on guys like Tatum. And then they end up with LeBron basically because LeBron just wanted to move to LA.
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And you stuck with Tatum and Brown. And you became the best owner in Boston by 2025, hands down.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah, I would say he was one of the most successful sports owners of this century. I'd agree. He took a team that had really no assets other than Pierce and no cap space and was able to rebuild it. It's the PAGS piece of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, he didn't get the Nets. He ran for governor, didn't get that. And then everyone thought he was getting the Celtics and he didn't get that. He has the Italian soccer team, but I just, he's gotta be dying today. Just dying. But I think we all felt like this was probably coming. Like I had hit a point where I didn't, I wouldn't have bet on him.
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And I think a lot of people, but the thing that I'm gonna be interested to see if it floats out over the next couple of days is, did he have any chance? Had this turned into a situation where they were like, we're just not selling to this guy.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And then they end up with Davis because LeBron made them trade everything for Davis. So now they end up with those two guys. But for the most part, I wouldn't call it the shrewdest team over the years. Ben Reeves is a great pick. And then Luka is the greatest trade maybe in the history of the league, at least since the Bill Russell trade. So you have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, and he released a statement right after they put the team for sale, right? He got one up that day, too. That day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I would say yes. There's another piece of this expansion coming. That's now we've established a price, 6 billion if you want in, 12 billion. Teams split it 30 ways. That's $400 million in cash the owners get. They don't share with the players. So Chisholm is buying in here at 6.1. He knows he's getting 400 billion back over the next couple of years with this expansion fee.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So it's really 5-7 because that's what... You know, that's what Cuban forfeited. That's what the Grosbecks forfeited by selling now. You get that money that maybe goes to the luxury tax. I was trying to walk my dad off the ledge this morning because my dad's just like, the Luca thing has spooked my dad. He was like, you can't say like the new Dallas owners, everything seemed great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And then they're trading Luka Doncic for a day in a first and Max Christie. Like, yeah, I'm worried we're going to do something stupid now. I knew what we had with WIC. And it's hard to talk someone off the ledge on that. Yeah. I'm more worried, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Derek White, what are you doing to me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You're not trading Jalen Brown to the wherever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Two weeks after the title.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I was more worried about Drew. Because Drew's like low 30s and the right team that wants a vet and you think you're the Celts and you're like, this is kind of a luxury to have a guy like this. Those are, it's, it's in that white holiday grouping that could be the first to go unless I hope they keep Tatum and Brown together forever. And I love having those guys as a combo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And then you have the night-to-night with Luka where you show up in the building and And you don't know where you're going to get. And you can't put a price on that. It goes beyond the trade. It goes beyond the fact that they fleeced Dallas, that they have somebody who's about to hit the prime of your career. This guy has a chance. to be Kobe for these guys. And that's the difference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And I think historically they have a chance to be something really special. Just two guys playing together their whole careers like that. One draft apart, winning titles like that's how many pairings have done that? Like, and how many pairings have fallen apart before they got to that point? So, but you know, if you're paying $130 million a year for two guys, It's almost impossible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, the team's in a weird spot. They're stuck at 2nd. you have Cleveland stuck at first and the Knicks probably stuck at third. And you have a month of the season left and all crappy teams for the most part on the schedule. And it's like, let's try to keep everyone healthy. Let's try to give these guys the minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
They're doing this interesting strategy with the best guys, Tatum and Brown, but they either won't play them or they'll play them real minutes. They're not doing like play 25. Like they're either playing a playoff game minutes or not playing them. And they have the luxury to do whatever they want and try to get Shireman and people like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I think they're, I just think they're better than the Knicks and that if they lost to the Knicks, that would be catastrophic because they've had their number all year and everything's heading toward this Cleveland series. And Cleveland's just lost three games in a row. And for the first time, it's the Russian is cut. It's just a little bit of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And I just think they feel like if everyone's healthy and KP's in there, we're going to be in the finals again. It seems to be the attitude, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
LeBron came in 2018. He'd been in the league 15 years. He belonged to Cleveland. So it's a business arrangement. It was year to year, and it was great, and it's worked out awesome, and they have a chance to make the finals this year. But it was always a little bit of an arrangement. Kobe is different.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, one other thing is they kind of blew the home court against OKC if they are able to get to the finals. They just lost that in five days. They had a chance to basically control their own fate the whole way, and now OKC, and you know they'll turn it on. So from a Celtics standpoint, that's potentially looming down the road. I love the way Tatum's playing, and...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
For me, I just want to know who's on the team in round two. Is KP there? Am I reading stories from people like you with like, KP, hopefully in game three, he'll be back. If we're going down that road, I think it's going to be really hard to win. And then the West, who the F knows beyond OKC. I've changed my mind 20 times in the last week. even since we did the Sunday pot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I don't know what to expect in the West, so we'll see what happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Well, and there's been... If you look at the history of the team, there's been some Al Horford moments over the years where most of the time they've let the guy go and kept their fingers crossed. In this case... You could make a case he's the most beloved Celtic teammate that we've seen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I was trying to think, I was talking to somebody about this, about is anybody more loved by the people that play with him and coach him than Al Horford? Like that Laker game was so fascinating when the Lakers were going at him and he started talking shit and Tatum was talking shit. And apparently there was just a lot of shit talking on both sides. They kept going at Al. He's talking shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And when he came out of that game, the bench like went, Like crazy. They were so fired. They just absolutely love him. And I think that would be a really tough one to leave. That's even, that's not James Posey. We want a title with you. Oh, it would suck if you left. This is like, he's in the fabric. Tatum and Brown grew up with the dude. So you're right. That's probably the first big test.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
My feeling is if you spend that amount of money on a team and you want to impress people in the city you grew up with, you're probably going to spend money the first couple of years. But we've seen these new owners come in and they're absolutely nuts. Here are my ideas. We're going to do this. We're going to zag when everybody's zigging. And it's like, oh boy, here we go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And when you go to the Staples and you see the statues when you walk in, and we were talking about, like, last time we were walking in, Like, is Luca going to get a statue here someday? You know, the statues are really smart. You go and you see Jerry West, you see Kobe, you see Magic, you see Shaq, and it's like, whose statue were they? Could LeBron get a statue? Maybe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Because that would be five years from now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
You think there's a new arena in 10 years?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I don't see, we should have talked about that sooner. I don't see how you spend this kind of money, but then also don't buy, build an arena.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
There's stuff there in 93 that, that the place they were looking at for the Olympics was, If you go back and read the Olympic stories from 2014, there's a specific spot like past where Emerson plays soccer and lacrosse. Like when you're driving by going toward the Cape, there's this whole section that is the spot that they're going to make like the hub of the Olympics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And I feel like that, I think it's called like the rail yard or something. I think that's where the arena would go. That's really the only open spot that's in the city in the right way. Or it could be Seaport, but I mean, Seaport's already really hard to get to back and forth now for putting 19,000... Fans there will be a little rough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I would put it right on the other side of the hill in Charlestown. We're going right in the town, like 12,000 seat arena. Let's fucking go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
It's bottom third in the league in terms of... Well, there's another possibility of it, too, where you can... There's a second part of this where you try to buy the Jacobs side and the Bruins in the arena and try to own everything. Because if they leave that arena... The Bruins are screwed, right? They had this 35-year-old. When was Fleet Center?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Maybe if they make the finals this year, maybe he's going to get one anyway. But Luca, what's sitting at stake now for him is... Not only can he become the face of the league. Earlier in the year, we're talking about face of the league, face of the league. Like this is it. This guy has a chance now to be the face of the league. Could he win titles here? Could you get a statue?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So 30-year-old arena, and then you're going to lose your basketball team? In like 2005 years, I don't see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Mannix, before we go, where am I with Bacoli? Oh, he's back. May 3rd. You told me not to bet on him. I did. You told me it was a money grab. I did. You told me he was flying across the world and had 14 hours before the fight and was just going to try to throw some bombs and it probably wasn't looking great, but he was getting paid more than he's ever been paid in his life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I didn't sell any of my stock on your advice, but I'm still a little worried because he got his ass kicked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I didn't tell you, but I put a small bet on because I was in Boston for that fight. I bet Bacoli, I know, but I can't not bet Bacoli KO. It's like a blind bet. I'm just betting it every time. I had to do it. So Canelo May 3rd, are we excited for that fight?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And you could feel a buzz building in the arena that is the sound you only get to hear when this is happening with Curry, when Curry's hitting threes. You go back in time, like when Kobe was feeling it some nights, when Michael Jordan was feeling it some nights. It's the rarest sound you get at a basketball game where everybody's like, holy shit. You start looking at the scoreboard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And could you be one of the big celebrities in LA where night after night after night, people are going to these games to see him, to see what happens with him. And you can feel the buzz already. There's more celebrities at all these games. The energy is different. And I'm not saying it was bad before. But the energy reminded me of what it was like when I went to that Kobe game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And the NFL will have started at that point and college football will be going. So it's going to be an insane weekend. Well, we'll see how much boxing Netflix does. So they're definitely intrigued that that Tyson fight, I think, was a jaw dropper for them. And it seems like they're going to be dabbling a little bit more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So what's the fight of the year? If you have to bet on one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Canelo Crawford's not the fight of the year. No, just what's going to be 2025's fight of the year when it's December 31st. So Canelo Crawford's not going to be it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
All right. Mannix, great to see you. You too. Thank you. You got it. All right. Thanks to McShay. Thanks to Mannix. Thanks to Suri and Gahal and Kyle. As always, I hope your March Madness brackets go great. Don't forget to check out Good Hang with Amy Poehler. Two episodes up. Rewatchables, Days of Thunder, Prestige TV. If you missed White Lotus, that's up there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And then Celtic City, episode four, coming Monday night on HBO and Max. Larry Bird shows up. And guess what? He was really good at basketball. So that's what we got today. I will see you on a Sunday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
It's the same thing. And you kind of either have that or you don't. And he has it. And it's one of the many reasons why that trade is fucking incredibly stupid. So I just want to mention that. Let's get to the rest of the podcast. You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more.
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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents, select states, game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, we launched a new podcast for The Ringer on Spotify. It is called Good Hang with Amy Poehler. Two new episodes, Tina Fey and Martin Short. Check it out. It's awesome. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
I put up a new rewatchables on Monday, Days of Thunder. I got to be honest, I didn't realize how many people like this movie. A lot of buzz out there. People are pumped that we did this. New Prestige TV podcast went up Sunday night after White Lotus. We did episode five. We have episode six, In the Bank. That is coming Sunday night immediately after White Lotus ends.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
we don't have the screener yet for episode seven. It's going to get dicey folks. There's only two episodes left and we have not seen episode seven. So I will, I will keep you posted. I know you're on the edge of your seat. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Check them out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
And we are going to have Todd McShay talking about the NFL draft a little bit later, but first Chris Mannix talking Boston Celtics sale and some NBA stuff as well. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're bringing in the new owner of the Boston Celtics, Todd McShay. Congratulations. Can't wait to see what you do with the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah, big six with no arena. So you have the McShay Show for us. You have the McShay Report, an excellent newsletter that is really becoming more and more exciting as we're within five weeks of the NFL draft. And I obviously have some special interest because my favorite team is picking fourth. But I wanted to go through some of the stuff you have in here. I feel bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Anytime I have you on, I feel like I'm stealing something from Russillo. Do I have to work this out with him? I don't know. I just feel like I'm going to his fridge and grabbing like his grapefruit juice and taking like a big swig. No, you're like, you're like team Rosillo. I always feel bad. Yeah, but we're all on the team now, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Great. That's a good way to put it. I'm going to tell him that. Um, It's starting to look like 1-2 for the QBs, which is what you laid out in Mock Draft 2.0. Cam Ward to Tennessee. Sanders to the Browns. Can we go through all the breadcrumbs of this Cleveland Browns-Sanders at number two, please? Let's hear it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
So with like four and a half minutes left, the Lakers had 33 points and he had 20. And now everybody's like out of their minds. They just can't, oh my, is he gonna, could he score 100? Could he get third in the first quarter? Of course, from that point on, he goes down. He stunk in the second quarter. He wasn't good in the third quarter either. They win easily because the Nuggets had nobody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Do you like how I was on deep social media trying to find weird people talking about this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Right. It was almost like he was meeting with his accountant for 15 minutes or something. He was trying to sell them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix
Yeah, because the perception is, because it's Deion's son, you just in your head, you're like, oh, he's got to be an amazing athlete. And he's actually a way more traditional quarterback.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
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A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I actually... Oh, you lost the crap. It's 30 degrees outside. We can't antagonize them. I love you, Texas. I actually think even KD would admit Nets over Knicks was a mistake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I think the San Antonio thing would be great because KD really does have genuine affection for... For University of Texas, even though he was only here one year, but the way he talks about it, it'd be cool.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Which is what he needs. Yeah, he does. Because you don't want to be the guy who played for 25 years and everyone's like, eh. Like Vince Carter. Yeah. Vince Carter got retired by Toronto. Yeah, he's, like, got a retirement ceremony every week. And it's like, he played for the Nets for four years, the retiring number.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It was like, I thought he was dead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It feels like there's a lot of rehabilitation stuff with retired stars whose careers didn't turn out perfectly. Like Carmelo's another one. And then Dwight Howard's like, I'd like to figure out how to do this, but I'm too much of a mess. I can't. But in general, it's funny how...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Like, we hear way more about Carmelo and way more about Vince Carter now than Tim Duncan, who's one of the best seven players of all time. But it's kind of, in one way, it's Tim Duncan's fault because he doesn't do, like, the post-career, look at me, look at me. Remember, like, he just doesn't, he doesn't care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Tim Duncan's at a bar and somebody's like, yeah, Karl Malone was better than Tim Duncan. He over here is like, I don't care. I won five titles. He doesn't. Karl Malone can have this one. I kicked his ass all the time. This episode is brought to you by McLobe Ultra. McLobe Ultra, a superior light beer and the ultimate trophy. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand.
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Alcohol available only in select markets. Shay, where do you stand on X-Player podcasts? Have we hit peak crazy yet, or are there two years left to go? Because you go to Hoopsype now, and every day it's some guy who made the All-Star team once who's like, I was toe-to-toe with LeBron for five years there. And you're like, what team are you on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Chris, does Embiid have a podcast that he does once a month? Does Embiid have a podcast? No. Just like once a month he does it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I remember the 2019 Celtics, the year was the year after the conference finals. Just to make it about you, we can't talk about you for a minute. No, when you know something's wrong with a season, and you're like, maybe this will be the game, and it turns around, and then it doesn't. And then by December, January, you're just kind of like, oh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
This is going to be one of the... It's like every Jets season for Sean. But it's just like... I'm sorry. That was a call for it. I apologize. We're talking about the Sixers. Well, but you know it's not going to come back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
We were talking about this earlier. Who is the number one celebrity or athlete that's attached to Austin, where Austin goes? Is it Glenn Powell or McConaughey? All right, so it's Powell and McConaughey in the finals, right? Do those guys have beef? Do those guys have a little tension?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah. I'll tell you, that reminded me of the 2019 Celtics. All right, so let's go. I'll give you McConaughey and Powell. So who says McConaughey? McConaughey. Who says Glenn Powell? All right. McConaughey.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Wow. They did not like twisters. McConaughey's really figured it out. Yeah. Because he goes to a lot of the Texas games, too. He's like an assistant coach now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
See our... Scale of 1 to 20, how genuine is Bradley Cooper's Eagles fandom, would you say? 1 to 20, I'll give you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Water's warm. Shay, who's your favorite celebrity attached to a team celebrity?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
First up, the Prince of Philadelphia, Chris Ryan. Next up, the self-proclaimed king of Letterboxd, Sean Fennessey. And last but not least, from the heart of Texas, the one, the only, Shea Serrano. It's a Grantland reunion, everybody. How you feeling, Shay? I feel fantastic. I feel so good. Sean went to a DVD store for like two hours today. What store was that, Sean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Come on. What about you, Sean? Favorite celebrity fan of one of my teams? Of a tie to a team, any team. The one you feel is the most genuine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
No, he abandoned the Jets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
A couple more quickies. Speaking of Austin, if Austin tried to steal the Spurs from San Antonio...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Where is this arena they're playing tomorrow? It's a nice one, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Sean, who's winning Best Picture at the Oscars? I had that on my list. Nora. Nora. Which... Yeah, Nora gang. Yeah, hell yeah. Thank you. Because it did the DGA, PGA, WGA, whatever the hell, that triple crown.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Well, there's a lot of sex in that movie. There is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And a lot of old people that vote for the Oscars.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I thought they were very well done. Yeah. Very tasteful. Very tasteful. Very tasteful. Yeah. I thought for the character it made a lot of sense. It did. It did. Really strong writing. So the last movie that did those three but then didn't win Best Picture was Crash.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So Nora... What if it's not an aura?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Didn't you watch eight episodes of Gabby Petito today?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah, so Netflix has this new documentary. This girl is a vlogger and just a lot of vlogging footage. And I got sucked in three episodes. Guess what? She didn't make it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It was probably longer than that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
These true crime things, I love when the guys, the killers, make the same mistake every time. This guy in the new one Once somebody is dead, they take the phone and they send texts back and forth like the police aren't going to figure that out. These people are so stupid. Anyway. Wait, what were we talking about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Oh, Brutalist. No, so I watched a combined 14 minutes of Wicked, Amelia Perez, and The Brutalist. They send me all the screeners. Sometimes I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to watch this. I'll watch three minutes. I'm like, I'm out. And then other ones, I'll keep going. I don't have time to watch 50 Oscar screeners. There's terrible basketball to watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
But I do want to watch The Brutalist. That just feels like you got to be in a mood, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Did you like it, Shane?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I would have you give your Oscar bets to everybody, but they can't bet here in Texas. What the hell, Texas? Boo! There's some FanDuel people here. They love this. Best actor? Chalamet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
No. No. Really? What happened?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You know what? Better for the career if he doesn't win. I agree. It builds up. It gets a Leo thing going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So good in that movie. You thought for striptease.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Speaking of movies, Shay, are we scared about Heat 2? I'm scared about it. There's been a lot of conversations in our circles. Sequels are tough, man. It's almost better off not happening than having one. We were just talking about Den of Thieves 2.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
What's the most disappointing you've ever been in a sequel, Sean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Eddie was like 20 pounds overweight for some reason. I didn't understand why Jack hates... Why he was in jail for five more years and then they just fought the whole time. But then at the end, Keo ends up being the Iceman. It sucks. And it's like, what the hell? Because then it ruins how you watch the first movie. Where it's like, this guy was the Iceman the whole time? And it just like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It was like a Jedi mind trick. It really bothered me. None of you guys have even seen it. I don't like when it ruins the movie before it with what they do with the sequel. When they go retroactively backwards and it fucks up what was in your head already. It really annoyed me. You think that could happen to Heat 2? That's what I don't want. I don't want my... brain chemistry to get.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I mean, we've seen heat 430 times. That's definitely affected our brain chemistry. Yeah. Shay, you were early on the WNBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
No, you were early.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You were the first player in the WNBA. And now we're at the point with Caitlin Clark. Mm-hmm. Would you say she's the biggest under-30 basketball star we have, or would you go with somebody else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Is it actually Jha? I know, Ja doesn't play. I mean, Ja plays, he just misses games left and right. But kids love him. Like, younger generations love Ja. Shea's not going to like this, but he's going to respect it. Tatum's got Tim Duncan-itis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Luca? I just don't understand the... When they say Tatum's boring... I don't really know what that means in the context of the NBA now. It means that they're frustrated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Is he not doing enough Instagram videos? What's boring?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Well, it comes down to authenticity, right? Yeah. So KD, whether you like him, don't like him... can bitch about the Warriors' decision, whatever. He really seems like who he is. He's the most authentic of, I think, all these guys. Tatum's pretty authentic. He's just, you know, plays basketball, works out, loves his son. I don't know. CR, what's your answer?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah. Bronny is the best thing that's ever happened to go into a Laker game because if it's a blowout, everyone stays for Bronny. You can just leave and get your car. It's like, this is great. I'm out of here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah, what is up, Austin? So I was here for the Dallas Super Bowl in Texas. When was that, like 2010? 2010. And it snowed like an inch and nobody could get anywhere because they had no snow plows. And that was when I realized, oh, yeah, Texas doesn't do well with cold weather. We are going to do a bunch of stuff with you guys today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Before we get to the big thing we're doing, who's winning the finals? Give us a pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I mean, I'm sticking with Celtics-OKC because it was the preseason. I think Cleveland's really good. I actually think that they've somehow become underrated and undervalued. The Hunter trade was great. They're going to have home court every round for the first three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
My dad's getting a little gamey with him lately. Hasn't really liked some of the subs. He's come home complaining a couple times, but he's fine. It's a hunger thing with them. We just saw with the Eagles and the Chiefs, like... We always forget the hunger piece with sports where the Chiefs, they're complaining. It's like, oh, the Super Bowl, we do this every year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And the Eagles are like, I'll fucking kill five small children to win this one game. And at some point, the hunger piece is a real thing. And you're playing like Cleveland or OKC, these teams that have never been there, and you won last year. It's that little extra something. That's the part that worries me, I think. All right, it's time. So you guys don't know what we're about to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
The lamest and most overused gimmick at a live show is to do a draft of something. And we're gonna do that anyway. But we have a twist. We are going to draft sports movie characters who play basketball, and we're going to make a team out of them. And the catch is going to be for the two assistant coaches, the GM and the owner, are going to be from heist movies. And we're going to build our team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And I swear this is all going to make sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
We're picking a starting five, a six man, a bench player who has to be a real bench player. It can't just be like a starter who's coming off the bench. We're going to pick a basketball movie coach. So it's like Coach Carter, those type of things. And then two assistants from a heist movie. A GM from a heist movie and an owner from a heist movie. So much stuff. This is going to be very long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
We have a big, fun, crazy draft in the second part of this podcast. But we're going to start. We're going to do a hodgepodge thing. Let's start with All-Star Weekend because it just happened. Sure. Boom. Oh, wow. Tough beat. Second lowest ratings ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It's not going to be that long. Shay, you have the first pick since you drove an hour to come here. All right. Wait, I have notes. Let me get my notes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
By the way, I forgot to say three rules for this. No cartoon characters. Space Jam's out. See, a lot of Lola Bunny fans. How dare you groan at our dumb rules that we made up five minutes ago. No NBA players as themselves, except with one exception, if you want. But it can't just be like, I take... Whoever, Jason White, Choco Williams, because he was in Eddie playing Jason White, Choco Williams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And then... Well, you can, but that's just the only one you can take. Right, right, okay. And that's it. And nobody from Celtic Pride, because that movie sucked. But you're not allowed to do that. And we'll go snake fashion. Sean, you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I knew you would.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You know, it's really... We did He Got Game. I can't remember when for Rewatchables. I just... Ray Allen was just such a one-on-one with his basketball style.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Like, I just miss... I wish there was somebody like him now, but it's even fun to watch him in that movie. Just, like, his shot, the way he carried himself, the whole thing. C.R., you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I could have told you he wouldn't. He's dominant in blue chips. It's young Shaq. Skinny Shaq. How do we feel about blue chips? Pro blue chips. Great movie. I think... It's one of those movies that I was disappointed by for like 15 years. And then around 2009, I was like, this movie's fucking awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And they had all the best guys from 1993. They're just running like real games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
All right, I guess I'm up. With two picks. So there's a lot of guys left on the board that I like, and I'm taking an owner pick out of the gate. Wow. I'm sorry, a GM pick. I'm taking Neil McCauley from Heat. Okay. I have to have him. He's got to be on my team. Why are you so interested in what I do, lady? I really feel like... You know, he's methodical. A little Sam Presti-ish. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It's like you call Neil McCauley and you're like, we need Paul George because that's how we're going to get Kawhi Leonard. Neil McCauley would hold out for SGA in the six first rounders. But what is his version of going back for Wayne Groh? It's a good question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You know, you don't want to do that. But that's why I'm here, because that's where you talk Neil out of, like, don't, no, dude, we won the Paul George trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I was really impressed with some of his heists. Put in the stuff on the, you know, what are those things called? The things that break the tires? Yeah. Not only the ambulance, but then putting that across the way. I don't know. I just like how it is. You got the job. All right. All right, my other pick. So, I mean, this is a layup, but Fish That Saves Pittsburgh, Julia Serving plays Moses Guthrie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
um and it's right his knee he still has his knees i'd say it's like right after the aba nba merger and he's just crushing it in real life he's in the movie there's a playground scene where he takes a girl on a date that's the best starts dunking for her with slow motion with like romantic music best and uh It's just lights out. Tour de force. Women love that, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So that's Wimby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
They love it. Well, it started 50 years of people doing that on dates. Anyway, he's on my team, too. So there you go. Shay. No, Chris, you're up. Oh, we're going to go around. Yeah, we're going back. We're sneak drafting. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I didn't know there was another one coming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah, that was AI when you were watching. Woody was, Woody as Billy Hoyle, very Austin Reeves-ish when you watch Austin Reeves now. That kind of herky-jerky crossover.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
That was kind of an issue for... CR, do you see Neon Boudot and Billy Hoyle running a lot of pick and roll or high school stuff?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I didn't think Wesley Snipes was good at basketball. I never bought the high dribble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And then when we did the research for Rewatchables, it was like he had never really played basketball and they had to put him through like a basketball clinic. And I was like, I fucking knew it. I could just tell. Whereas like Woody, you could just see like he had the flow to him. So anyway, congrats, Sean. Great pick. Yeah. I feel like Giannis didn't pick up a basketball until he was like 15.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Kind of a similar situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
CR, what did you think of my idea that we split the game up and the Sunday game is just guys from the top five seeds and they play for home court advantage in the playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Well, you went for toughness. Yeah. Wood Harris, Bonham McCall, and a 7'6 guy who played one game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I'm putting him in your bench spot. Okay. Well, I don't know what you mean by that, because raindrop! I had him on my board. What do you have, CR? Disney, your turn? No, it's... I picked... No, you're doing two now. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Fantasy's third pick was what? Did you make a third pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
My turn? Kyle, cut this out of the pod. I can't believe this is still happening. Kyle, cut this. No, you go, and then I go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It's a great pick. He did quit on his team. And came back. He did come back. All right, that's a good pick. He was on my board. Yeah, no shit. I bet he was on your board. Now, I'm going with guys who were awesome in real life when they were making the movie, which brings me to Hustler from Fast Break, a movie that none of you have ever seen. Fast Break, a movie that came out in 1979.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Bernard King plays Hustler, who's like a pool guy who ended up not going to college, but he was an All-American. And if you watch Fast Break, it's just Bernard King just being amazing. So I'm putting him with Dr. J. And I'm kicking ass with those two guys. Plus, I have a team of Moses Guthrie, Hustler, and Neil McCauley as my GM. I'm feeling great. So there's two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And then I'm so excited this guy's on the board. I need a center. He's a little undersized. In Teen Wolf... You can't make him your center? Are you serious? I'm not taking Teen Wolf. Oh, okay. No, you're taking Big Body. If you've watched Teen Wolf enough, number 45, white guy. Teen Wolf, you know, he turns into a wolf than he did in the last game. He got all the praise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
The school rallied around him. They're selling merch. Teen Wolf, are we sure he's good? No, well, he was great. Number 45 is just fucking carrying them. You watch that movie, he's protecting the rim. He's rebounding. He's doing everything. It's like heroic to watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I don't know what his name was, and I don't even know if he was in the credits, but if you watch, he's like 15, 12, and 5 in the final game. This is an iconic draft from you. So I'm going number 45 on Teen Wolf as my fourth pick. Chris, you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Imagine if he was wearing shorts. This guy's wilt. You know, now if they did above the rim now, those would be all threes. Yeah. There was a couple of threes in there, though, wasn't there? He had 10 threes. Yeah. In that game. 10 for 10. I thought he was just taking like 17 footers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Get on second spectrum. Use money from the top of the key. So I have Shep from above the rim. I like that. That's a really good pick. And he goes in with your team of quitters. Jimmy Chip would quit. Shep quit. Neon tried to quit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yes. I thought you were going to go Edwards there. Shit, Shea has two picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Sean, Van thought that it might have culturally expired. Which has happened a few times in our lifetime. Specifically with some actors, too. Like who? I don't know, who have culturally expired. Like Kevin Spacey? Well, that's... That was good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
He's so cool. He's such a cool guy. Such a cool guy. Great. He came by myself. It was 10 in the morning. He was wearing a leather jacket. It was 78 degrees outside. And he stunk of cigarettes. And I was just like, you're fucking awesome. Sean, you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Goddamn. Android guy? Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Wow, that's quite a team you got.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Bedazzled Guy, Wood Harris, Monty McCall, Android, and Snake Plissken on Shay's team right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Oh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Nice job. That's a really nice pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Not enough balls for that team. I think I need a glue guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I have two picks. It's a big part of the draft for me. I need a guard. Right now I have number 45 from Team Wolfe at center, Moses Guthrie, Hustler, and Neil McCauley as my GM. And I'm going to take Butch McCray from Blue Chips. Keeping my philosophy of real-life basketball players playing characters, this is Penny Hardaway. He had not ended up on Orlando yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And I just want to tell you, because this was over 30 years ago, them drafting Penny Hardaway... No! To play with Shaq, but they were both in a movie together. Might have been the single coolest thing in 1993. I think that's why they drafted him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Anyway, so we'll take him. And then I can't believe he's still on the board. I think I'm going to use him as my bench guy. But Fletch during the dream sequence. Fletch with the afro. You know, it's not a long scene, but you can see there's a lot going on there. He's just a force. The other team didn't know what was happening, so Fletch with the afro is my bench guy. What do you got, CR?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah. A lot of guys left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So you're going a little smaller.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Give me air, bud. It's a movie that only makes sense when you have a kid. Yeah. Because it came out, and I was like, this is the fucking stupidest thing ever. And then you have, like, a five-year-old, and they're like, what is... It's like Gone with the Wind for a five-year-old. It's the greatest cinematic achievement anyone's made. A dog scoring baskets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I just want to say, we've known each other a long time, and you had seven player spots. You not taking Timo Kroos from Coach Carter is the most shocking moment of my year so far. I don't need him. I don't need him. I just can't believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president-elect states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, this is weird. I'm in Austin, Texas. It's freezing cold. We have a Grantland reunion. It's coming up next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Don't forget about the rewatchables. We did Wayne's World this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I'll take Blake Lively as my owner. So you're taking Krista from the town. Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe somebody threw out the Ed Norton. My scouts did look at it. The two-hand dunk. His real name was Derek Vineyard. I'm not taking him. Team chemistry was too risky. Just didn't seem like a great move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I'm taking, as my owner... Danny Ocean.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Interesting. There you go. Handsome. Good at his job. He'll represent us well. I think the fans will like him. And he's got a Rob Palenka-y kind of vibe to him. Could see him talking Nico Harrison in a Give Me Away the Farm. I have some questions about Neil reporting to Danny. That's one of the reasons we have Danny. Yeah. Yeah. Uh...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And then for one of my assistant coaches, I'm just going to lock him down. Also from Heat. Michael Chiaretto, played by Tom Sizemore. I just feel like you need him every once in a while for that. For me, the action is the juice. Like you just need him in the room for the big moments. So he's on there too. I got him. Sorry, CR.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You get five picks now. You always have one pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
How do you see Jack working with Sandy Lyle on your team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You know, just as an aside on Coach, because he was on my board. He was the one who had the three rules. Always get 12 hours of sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the first name as a city. And never go near a lady who has a dagger on her body. You stick with that and everything else is cream cheese. That was Coach Finstock. An absolute legend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
All right, Sean, we're running out of spots. You have two assistant spots, a GM spot. I don't know, that's Shay. I have a GM spot still. Yeah, you have a GM spot still.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Can I ask the crowd, where do you guys stand on Triple Frontier? Yeah, see, that's why it's on the list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
CR, do you think you have one pick or two right now? I think I have one. Don't flip it on me. I just didn't understand what you were doing. What do you got? What do I have left? You need a forward spot, a bench spot, an assistant coach, and a GM. All right, for my bench spot, I'm going to go Jackie Moon from SemiPro.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So, you have Jimmy Chitwood, Billy Hoyle, Jim Carroll, and Jackie Moon. Christmas franchise is playing in Utah. What? Or Boston, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So now I have two. I really need a coach, but you need a coach too, right? Oh, you took a coach. Who needs a coach? I did. Am I the only one that needs a coach?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Well, the fact that we're coming up with ideas like this tells you how grim it is for All-Star Weekend. Mm-hmm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Oh, yeah. All right. So I need one more assistant. I thought long and hard about Jim from The Town, but I just feel like somebody would get murdered. That's probably a bad idea. But I really like this guy, and I think he's like a Tom Thibodeau, 2008 type. I know exactly what you're going to say. Who am I going to say? Give her a little taste. No. Fergus from The Town?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I'm taking Merriman from Den of Thieves. good planner, takes his work seriously, family guy. Donnie planned that heist. Merriman, family guy. Yeah, but Donnie... I got family here, bro. Benny Hanna. He's trying to enjoy a nice silent dinner with his family. So I got Merriman, so that gives me... I have all my assistants. I'm not hiring my head coach yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I still need a guard, and I still need a sixth man. And Teen Wolf is still on the board. And you know what? Not any longer. So I'm taking Teen Wolf. I'm going to have Scott Howard and Teen Wolf. I get them both. And we'll just decide game to game if he's going to be the human or the Teen Wolf. And maybe even during the game, he'll turn into Teen Wolf.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
But I think it'd be really hard to prepare for. You're like, is he going to do the Wolf thing today? Or is it just going to be, oh, he's just a 5'4 point guard who can't dribble today. But the other team's going to be on their toes, so I'm taking Teen Wolf.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And can we do that breaking the... Edward, that would be funny for the social video they make where people are like, what the fuck happened in Austin?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You just entered a world of shit. Every December, he's going to be talking about how he needs more help. Like, I don't know if Shep from above the rim is enough and forward. Got to get a better score.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
All right, Fantasy, you're up, and you need a... I need two assistants. And you need a center. I have you with three spots left. What about Wancho Hernan Gomez? I have him at... You can have him at seven. I have him at forward. Do you have a center? Ricky Rowe is at four. Here's what I have for your team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Jesus Shuttlesworth, Bo Cruz, Uncle Drew, Sidney Dean, Ricky Rowe, and Sandy Lyle as your six players. And Wancho Hernan Gomez. Yeah, that's... That's Bo Cruz. That's six guys, yeah. But you can have a seventh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Coked out wearing a turtleneck. Shay, do you like ambulance? I do like ambulance, yeah. It just hasn't gotten me yet, but I know it will. It'll get you. It's just one of those things. I know it's going to happen at some point. It just hasn't happened yet. Let us know. Yeah, I'll let you know. I'll keep you all posted. Shay, you got two. All right. So here's Shay's team. Oh, tell them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Bedazzled Brendan Frazier, Snake Plissken... Wood Harris. What was his character? Muta?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Monica McCall. Android guy. What movie was that? Prometheus. Yeah. Air Bud. Spaceman. Coach Finstock coaching. And Dalton Russell is the owner. So you need two assistants and a GM. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Or Iguodala.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Did you just tell me that Ray Merriman was a bad pick? Did I hear you say those words?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
He's an assistant. He's just there for the defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Shay, how would David Stern have handled the NBA in 2025? Oh, my God. I think about this a lot. He's like the angry grandparent you had that you were like, oh, man. He would have been so mad. I hate grandpa. He's so annoying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
That's right. Well, where are you putting him? Because you can't put him at forward because Tom Cruise is 5'8". Is he? Is he guard? He's your sixth man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
All right. That's a good pick. Thanks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
See, cocktail's a good example. They didn't make a Cocktail 2, and thank God. Because Cocktail 1 didn't need a sequel, and they would have fucked it up, and it would have been like him owning the bar, and then we would have had the memory of Cocktail 2.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Done. CR, you need an assistant and a GM.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
How do you feel about the coaches meeting with birdie from above the rim, rusty from oceans, 11 and drunk shooter game plan into that. I would love to be a part of that dinner out. You know, Chris, this culture she's building. All right. So I have two picks left and I need a coach. And I'm not taking Norman Dale because I've written about this, but if you watch Hoosiers, he's secretly terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I don't know what he was doing. Almost doesn't design the last play of the game for Jimmy Chitwood. Yeah, he abandons him. Jimmy Chitwood was 20 for 21 in the game. He's like, all right, we're going to do this instead. Not doing him. Pete Bell, I looked at for a while. But, you know, he had a point shaving scandal on his team. I can't have that in my locker room.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So I got to go with my guy, Gabe Kaplan and fast break. You could see when I do the podcast, you see the fast break poster behind. I love Gabe Kaplan. He was in fast break and welcome back Cotter at the same time, which has still never been approached in Hollywood history. Sean, can you think of a twofer like that? I can't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I mean, you said it, I didn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Gabe Kaplan gets the job. He's got to go to Las Vegas, and he just cheats and gets all these people who shouldn't be in college. He does all these crazy things, and he's my coach. I still need a sixth man, though. And it's not going to be Ed Norton in American History X. Sorry to disappoint you guys. You know, man, there's some good ones left. Kyle Watson in Above the Rim, I'm going to go with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You know, great value late in the thing. It was a little me first for the first, what, hour of the movie? Yeah. Little like LaMelo on Charlotte, just getting his stats as the team loses. And then slowly figured it out and became a team guy. Set up Shep, road Shep in the final game. Like Schroeder's arc, right? Where we're like, oh, a little too ball first, maybe me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah, so he's my sixth man. What do you got for your last pick, Chris?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Yeah, you know, you need a... A GM. Oh. And I took Neil McCauley off the fucking board.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Because he invented the internet? Yeah. Sean, last pick. You need an assistant coach. Yeah, easy one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
It's not a long-term project.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Now You See Me was a movie that came out in the theater? Yeah. It made like $300 million. It's a good movie. Is that not on the list for you? Now You See Me? So people who didn't get taken... Junior from Coach Carter did not get taken. The guy from the year up there did not get taken. Sala.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Flatch from Hoosiers, who all he did was go through a trophy case, put a bandage on it, and keep going, trying to rebound. He didn't go. We mentioned American History X guy. Lewis Scott from Celtic Pride. Nobody jumped on that. Buddy from Hoosiers who quit the team came back and really became a lockdown defender. Shades of Dyson Daniels on the Hawks this year. Nobody took the like Mike guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Calvin Cambridge. Nobody took Andre 3000's character from Semi-Pro, Clarence Withers. Yeah, Chris took Jackie Moon. I thought... Nobody took the kid from Finding Forrester. Yeah, Jamal Wallace. Liked his game. How about Odin James from O? Was he on anyone's board? No, but that's funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
This is a rough podcast for Eddie because there were no Eddie picks, including Stacey Patton, played by Malik Sealy. Would you have included Kevin Garnett from Uncut Gems as eligible? Yeah, that could have been a good pick. Nobody took Quincy McCall. You took his wife. Quincy was a bust. Strap from Hoosiers and Chubby from Teen Wolf were the big bench guys that I think were pretty shocked by.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And then nobody took Jim. I guess nobody wanted Jim in the locker room. So here are the teams. And you guys can decide who won. Chris Ryan. Neon Boudot, LeBron from Trainwreck, Shep from Above the Rim, Jimmy Chitwood, Billy Hoyle, Jim Carroll from the Basketball Diaries, Jackie Moon, and a coaching staff of Birdie, Rusty, and Shooter. With Kelso as the GM and Krista from the town as the owner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Do people in Austin... So do you lean toward the Spurs? Or like what's the... Okay. So when the Mavericks... So you guys are just Luka fans? Okay. So when the Mavericks traded Luka, you guys are just laughing your asses off?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So that's Krista's team. Fantasy has Bo Cruz at center, a little undersized. Jesus Shuttlesworth, Ricky Rowe, Uncle Drew, Sidney Dean. I wrote somebody down twice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And Sandy Lyle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
People want to get your guys in foul trouble and see if Brian Flanagan or Sandy Lyle... That's very Tibbs of you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Jack from the way back as your coach. Yep. Danny Sharp, Bodie is your assistant. Tom from Triple Frontier. I'm so glad I got an ovation from the crowd. And then Joe Cabot is your owner. And then my team, a little undersized with number 45 from Team Wolfe at center, but the guy's a fighter, man. I just believe in him. Moses Guthrie and Hustler, two real NBA players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Butch McCray, a guard with Teen Wolf. That backcourt's amazing. I think Fandle just made me the favorite. Kyle Watson coming off the bench with Fletch with an afro. Gabe Kaplan, Merriman, and Michael Chiaretto as my coaching staff. Neil McCauley as the GM and Danny Ocean as the owner. And then here's Shea. All right, so I didn't read the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Bedazzled Brendan Fraser, Stake Plissken, Wood Harris, Manu McCall, Android, Air Bud, Spaceman, Coach Finstock, Donny, Eisenberg, TT from Set It Off, and Dalton Russell. Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby. Is that our winner? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
This feels like a hometown verdict. We never had a chance. He already said he was going to fight all if he stole the Spurs from San Antonio. Now you're rooting for his team? All right. What was the most surprising pick for you, C.R. ?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
That's going to wrap it up for us. Sierra, what are you working on? You still podcasting? Just cranking out different stuff, yeah. Still doing the watch? Yeah. Oh, the watch? Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Because we have like 40. Do you think you've been on half of them at this point?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Sean Fennessey got the Oscars coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You excited? Scale of one to ten?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Ringing endorsement for the pod there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
What are you doing, Bill? What am I doing? I'm just getting ready for the playoffs, baby. We got a... The Celtics thing on HBO Celtics City March 3rd. So, no, don't boo. It's a great achievement. It's an NBA doc as much as a Celtics doc. I really think you guys will like it. So we got that coming. We got some good music box stuff coming as well. SG back on the Red Sox? Pregnant? Excited?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And USA Canada, the most important sporting event of our lifetime tomorrow night. Thank you all for coming out. Thank you for the freezing cold weather and the pneumonia. And we love seeing you guys. Thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Chris and Sean and Shay. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
As always, don't forget you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch it on Spotify. Hopefully you're watching on Spotify right now. And I will see you on Sunday with Rizella.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
What was your reaction when you heard the trade CR? I never had you. Is Dirk here? Only people I didn't have on a podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Don't forget about the Prestige TV podcast. We're doing White Lotus and Severance covered all of it. I'm there on Sunday nights as well. My Sunday night podcast with Priscilla is coming back
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
I know you're a student of journalism, Sean. Have you been following some of these features with the Mavs? We weren't actually going to give Luca the Max extension. People didn't realize because we're idiots. So we weren't going to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Just be like, what year did the ABA and NBA merge? He's like, ah, 1988.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Don't you? Well, I like the fact that we always seem to have six to eight terrible run teams. That's great for us for content. But the real thing that's interesting is the Lakers are villainous again. Because they pull off this trade. And then they trade for Mark Williams. And then they just void the trade. They're like, we don't like it. This hasn't happened in like two decades.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
And Mark Williams is like, I'm healthy. I'm fine. No, actually, no thanks. And then the trade deadline passed. Charlotte couldn't trade him. But like if somebody did this in your fantasy league. It would be the angriest chain of emails ever. And people would stop talking. It's like, Bob's not invited to Gary's wedding now. Oh, it's because of Mark Williams' trade? Yeah, that's what happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
this sunday i think i hope hopefully hopefully russo knows we'll have to tell him uh anyway what you're about to listen to is me and sean fennessey and chris ryan and shay serrano going to austin texas where for some reason it's 30 degrees was not on the agenda for me but uh we're here anyway and we put together a big show at the paramount theater uh there was 1100 people
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Seriously, they haven't voided their trade in 15 years yet. And apparently when you make a trade, you send the team the medicals and they can look at them. So I think they just said, fuck it, we don't want this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Are you guys on my side that more people knew about this trade than everyone's letting on? Because I think a lot of people knew and then they're all like, we didn't know. Found out last second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
No offense to him, I don't believe it. I think both coaches knew. I think Anthony Davis knew. I think the agent knew. He had to waive the no trade clause. I'm just never going to believe it. They're never going to convince me. I think LeBron knew. But Luca had no idea. I think Luca was the only one that didn't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
The Mavericks were like, yeah, he didn't know because he was out there getting fucking drunk and eating fried chicken. Lazy motherfucker. It's like binging Netflix. So, Shay, the Luka Doncic movie, when they make it, is it a TV movie, like a Ryan Murphy type of movie? Is it a sports movie? Is it a dark, seedy drama that Sean would really like and do multiple big picture episodes of?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Or is it a heist movie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You want to walk through the heist movie with Luka Doncic with Palenka as Neil McCauley?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
What you're laying out, though, because then Cuban, maybe Cubans like. Cause he's bitter that he sold the team. So he wants them to destroy the team. And he's like, he's like drugging Nico Harrison. Yeah. This is like, it's getting dark. It's like traffic. That would be great. Kevin Durant. You guys like Kevin Durant, right? He loves Austin. KD's a little bit of a nomad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
You know, starts out in OKC nine years there, goes to Golden State, goes to Brooklyn, goes to Phoenix, almost gets traded in the deadline. And yet I think we all like him. I always feel like I'm like a KD defender. You saw the clip this week from the new Netflix series about the Olympics. And KD just starts crying. He loves basketball so much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Like, I really think he's one of the most genuine athletes ever. that we have, but also takes a ton of shit. Shay, what do you want his next five years to look like?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
So two years, like Wemby's first. I can't believe he's in the finals this young. He's only 22. And he's part of that with Daniel Fox. I like that. What do you think, Shaq?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
apparently that are coming to this. I'm taping this before the show. I hope it goes well. Wish us luck. Let's bring in Pearl Jam. Why the fuck is it so cold? What the hell? We could've gone to Chicago or Winnipeg. Thanks to Michelob Ultra for sponsoring this. We're so happy to be here. We love being in Austin. I'm gonna introduce, you guys don't know who's here tonight, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey
Thunderstruck 2?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Coming up, I have an NBA midseason power poll plus college football. A lot of it next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And instead of getting towns and bridges, they basically took all those assets and just had Embiid. And then what happened with Embiid this year, 13 games, 389 minutes, was happening in New York after they had this super fun team last year. It's a bullet dodge, my friends. Anyway, they are number 23, and I think we can cross them off as the title contender. I'm ready to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You can wear it when you're training, traveling, lounging around the house. Go get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. Here's the deal. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons. Once again, V-U-O-R-I.com slash Simmons. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I don't have any rewatchables for you this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
New Orleans, up to 22. They're 10 and 32. We knew they would be a what the fuck happened to that team in the West, and they're the team. They had a stretch where their body language was the worst in the league. Their home court, when they do the wide shot, all the seats in mid court, like maybe one third of them are full. The energy is just super, super, super weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They should probably be doing everything possible to suck at this point. And yet, when you watch them, which I've watched a couple games, they've turned into a really fun league pass team. Trey Murphy's playing great. Zion's back. Murray's back. They're a good team when everybody's playing. They're not a great team, but they're a good team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You would think they were like a six to 10 playoff seed potentially with everybody. They haven't had anybody, but they're 10 and 32. And I don't know what the move is because it's really hard for them to tank when they have as many good players as they do. I mean, one thing they got to get credit for, they just nail their draft pick every year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Like Messi has a chance to win rookie of the year this year. Every year it seems like they hit their pick. Trey Murphy, who they just re-signed, but Hawkins. I like all these guys. And they have a bunch of trade assets. Ingram, 36 million expiring. Zion, 36.7 with outs every year. McCollum, 33 and 30.6. Sorry, CJ, for mentioning you in a trade rumor. Murray, 29.5. They have moves.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I just don't know what the move is. And my guess is they'll probably limp along for the next month and try to figure out what they are and if they keep winning games. Maybe start trying to talk themselves into or run it to 10 seed, which would kind of be insane. But what else are you going to do? You have all these good basketball players who are trying to play hard. This is a team to watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's a team to watch from a spoiler standpoint, from a trade machine standpoint. And then the Zion piece of it, where he just, he goes away for four or five, six weeks, whatever it was, comes back and looks really good. It doesn't look fat or out of shape. And you're like, whoa, this is going great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And then the story comes out, they have to suspend him because he's repeatedly late to practices and stuff. And you just got this guy just never, ever going to get it. I would still trade for him if I was a team like San Antonio. We'll get to that in a second. Next category, the trade machine heroes. Phoenix, number 21. They're 19 and 20.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Their last 15 games, they're basically 22nd net, 26 defense for points per 100 possessions. This team's just not good. You can talk yourself into, oh, they just got... I don't see it. I watched them play whoever, and I'm very invested in them because this is going to be probably the first FanDuel Super Boost we've lost since 2020. We thought they were going to get 47-plus wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We thought they were going to shoot a bunch of threes. Brasilo House and I were all aligned on it. And then you watch them, and I just don't see it. They can't rebound. They can't protect the rim. The guys don't seem like they like playing with each other. You watch them play a team, I don't know, like pick a bad team. Like they'll play like Charlotte or Washington or whoever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And you're watching the back and forth. You're like, I'm not sure they're much better than this other team. The league's just really good and really deep. And what's funny, Katie and Booker are both over 36 minutes a game, and they've actually had them for most of the year. It's a team that makes more sense on paper in 2017 than in 2025 when you need depth. They just threw away depth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We did record a long, giant mailbag that we're going to run on Monday's episode, and then we'll be back to a normal schedule after that. So thanks for your patience on that one. You can also check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel for a lot of the old rewatchables we've done, as well as the Spotify archives. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where we're still doing 30 on 30.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The Beal trade was Chris Paul, Shamit, 2024, 26, 28, and 30 first round swaps with Washington and a bunch of seconds for Beal. And it was a terrible trade when it happened. I hated it. I thought they left themselves with no outs. I was not a giant Beal guy. And now he's at 50, 53.7 and 57 million for this year and the next two with a no trade clause and they can't trade him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
He knows they can't trade him. I'm not sure he gives a crap. They have Nurkic at 18 and 19. They have Grayson Allen at basically 16 this year and then three more years after that. And those are their trade assets. And nobody wants Beal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Not one team. I don't know what they do. I do know this. I was thinking about the worst big threes of all time. Because we did use the big three. I didn't. But we used the big three word with Durant and Booker and Beal. This is up there for worst big three of all time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But I think the answer, as much as I love Steve Nash, is Kobe and Dwight and Nash that one year at the Lakers when people were calling them the big three. And then Nash was like his body just completely broke down. Kobe hated Dwight. That's probably our worst big three. You could talk me into LeBron and AD and Russ.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Some people try to get it going when Russ and Paul George and Carmelo were on the same team that one year. But this is like a possible Mount Rushmore, oh my God, I can't believe we called them the big three kind of situation. It's also another unhappy Kevin Durant team. So we have the 2019 Warriors, unhappy. 2022 and 23 Nets, unhappy, unhappy. 2024 Suns, unhappy. 2025 Suns, currently unhappy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I'm just flagging it. Maybe it's a coincidence.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And it's like, well, Jimmy Butler really wants to go to Phoenix. Cool. You're going to have to trade Kevin Durant or Devin Booker for Jimmy Butler because you're not getting him for Bradley Beal. Nobody wants that contract. Nobody wants Bradley Beal. I think he's the number one trade asset you don't want in the entire league. Sorry, Bradley Beal, but it's true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The Suns are the guy in your fantasy league who texts you and tries to trade you DeAndre Swift for Brock Bowers. Hey, I see you need a running back. What about Swift for Bowers? And you're just like, dude, stop. Nobody wants Beal. Nobody wants Nurkic. It's like, yeah, you're not getting Vucevic for Nurkic and a couple of number twos. Stop. It's not happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The whole league is annoyed by the Suns. It's a really important point. Everyone in the league is like, Ishby is just on a bender and this team is insane and stop calling us. Miami at number 20, speaking of Bradley Beal. They're 20 and 19.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's weird, they're, you know, in the top half of the league in offense and defense, they're getting an awesome Tyler Hero year, who at the end of some of these games has really been a pretty special offensive player sometimes. You watch, you catch a certain heat game with two minutes left and he's just like slicing and dicing somebody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think that's one of the reasons Butler might not have been 100% happy with this Miami situation because when you watch him, there's games where Hero just seems like a way better option at the end of games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Bam's offensively is just taking a huge step back, and I don't really know whether it's an aberration or what's going on there, but it's worth mentioning that I don't think he's as big of an asset as he was last year. Maybe it'll come back. But if you don't get a star back in a Jimmy Butler trade, what's the point of this team? Because your top two is Bam and Hero. Congratulations.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's a profit boost token. We do it on Fridays. Any 30 plus point score or 30 on 30 special bet gets boosted with a little profit boost. Like for instance, Shea Gilgis Alexander is playing Dallas on Friday. The team that knocked him out of the playoffs. They don't have Luka. If you think he's going to get a little revenge game, just put a little 30 plus on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I don't know where that's getting you with the way the league is now with how deep and awesome it is. So with Jimmy, no deal works with Houston and Memphis because they don't want them. Dallas or Milwaukee, they don't have anything they could trade back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Sacramento, there's like a DeRozan, Herter, Trey Lyles, or Keegan Murray, but if I'm Sacramento, I don't want to deal with Jimmy Butler and trade for him, and then he's unhappy in Sacramento, and then he's opting in for 50 plus next year. I'm not doing that. Denver, I don't think Miami takes Michael Porter Jr. plus Najee, which I think that would basically have to be the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I'm also not sure Jimmy Butler solves whatever issue Denver has because they're already shaky enough with three-point shooting, and then they're going to get rid of Michael Porter Jr. I don't like that trade for anybody. Plus, Denver's playing better. Phoenix, they're not taking Beal. Golden State's not trading Wiggins and Kaminga and other stuff for Jimmy Butler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And if I'm Miami, I'm not trading Jimmy unless I can get Zion in a three-way. I mean, a basketball three-way. Ingram and McCollum together from New Orleans with Butler and Regier going out. I would consider that. I don't know why New Orleans would do that. Tobias Harris and Tim Hardaway's expiring, plus maybe a protected pick from Detroit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's a little more interesting because Kate has become a top 20 player in the league. And if you're the Pistons, you could just turn, you basically make a 30 cents in the dollar trade and get Jimmy Butler and hope that he's excited for the next year and a half. Paul George mentioned earlier, no way. And then there's maybe a trade where you just get cap space back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But I thought for sure Jimmy Butler was going to get traded. And then the more I kind of sniffed around, talked to different people, tried to figure out the trades. I don't think there's a trade. So I don't know what happens here. And maybe there's a surprise team. Like, oh my God, the Pistons traded for him. There's one team coming up later that we'll mention for this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But I'm really having trouble and I'm the trade machine, Picasso. We'll take a break and we'll finish the PowerPoll right after this. Sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you can get a 30% profit boost from The Ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. That's right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The Ringer, teaming up with America's number one sportsbook to give you a 30% profit boost when you either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game to have both teams score 30 plus points in the first quarter. Looking at the Friday slate, I would target...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Shea on OKC going against Dallas, the team that knocked them out in the playoffs last year to get a little revenge 30 plus. So you can go there, look at all the matchups, pick whatever you want, ride with that pick, make your own, look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduel.com slash BS for your choice to score a bigger payout this Friday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Don't miss your chance to find out how much more 30 can be worth with FanDuel's 30 on 30. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fielder.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto? That's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, next category for the Power Poll is the feel-good upstarts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Get the profit boost token, and all is great. So look for 30 on 30 on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Coming up on this podcast, it's basically mid-season NBA, so I wanted to get down a giant power pole and count everybody from 30 to one. So we did that, and it took longer than I thought. Sorry, I had a lot to say. Followed by Joel Anderson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
That can only be the Detroit Pistons. I have them number 19th. They're 21 and 19. They had a huge bummer with Jaden Ivey getting hurt, which a game that I was actually watching when it happened in a play that, the guy diving for the loose ball goes into the side of somebody's leg that you just think would happen more often in the NBA and never does. And then when it happens, it's awful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But that was a bummer because they were really starting to figure out something with him and Cade. I really liked when he would come set to pick for Cade and they would kind of do this small man's pick and roll thing. So Cade is basically 24, 7, and 10. And he's 45%, 38% from three. He's gonna be on the all-star team. And he's turned into an awesome asset.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And we were unclear the first couple years, especially with the way the team was losing. But I am willing to redo now my number one pick since Tim Duncan list, where... There's eight definitive nos. You would not take this guy again. Ayton, Fultz, Simmons, Bennett, Oden, Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Oluwakandi. I still can't believe Oluwakandi went first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The late 90s were unbelievable for basketball content. I really wish I'd had a bigger audience back then. The sort of list, there's seven guys. Zion, Wiggins, Wall, Bogut, Kmart, Elton Brand. I'm going to put Risa Shea in there too because I like Risa Shea. He's like 19. We have no idea what's going to happen with him. But that's like a sort of. You can see it. There's a case for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Some of those guys like Zion and maybe even Wiggins, maybe the next five years will even boost them into the yes category. And then the yes guy, you would take this again. Wemby, Paolo, Edwards. Three great ones. Three great number one overall picks there. Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard, LeBron, Yao. That was 10 the last time I did this. We have two additions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think Carl Anthony Towns is officially a yes. he's been a really good number one overall pick, especially the fact that he was part of a really good Minnesota team last year that almost made the finals. And then this year, you know, one of the, one of the best 12 players in the league so far. So he's in there. And then I think Kate is a yes though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think when you think about, did that number one overall pick, did that work? Did that kind of work? Did that not work? He definitely 100% worked. So kudos to him. I'm still interested to see what they do with Tobias Harris and Hardaway as trade bait, because you can get to 41 million with them. They also have this 14 million under the cap situation. So there's a lot of fun stuff they can do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And the fact that they're over 500, even without Ivy in an Eastern conference, that has been pretty weird. I'd like to see them do something. All right, next team, Sacramento number 18. They are 20 and 20. This team would have been a three seed six years ago, and now they have a fired coach, and I don't know what the hell they are. They fired Mike Brown. They lost the first game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They won a couple goofy games that they shouldn't have won, and now got the momentum, and now all of a sudden the vibes are good. It's like, see, that's why we fired Mike Brown. I'm not sure that was the difference. Obviously not in the locker room, but I just think they had some bad luck earlier in the season and they got some better luck later. Now DeRozan's starting to look better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Fox missed a couple games. I was watching them because House and Sal and I and Hench, we did a parlay over under wins total bet like three weeks ago and one of them was Sacramento under. I think it was like 42 wins. And we were like, Sacramento, this team's falling apart. And then they fired the coach five days later. And now it's coming back with Doug Christie, former star of basketball wise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I don't know what happens with them. I'll tell you this though. There was a moment with the Kings where it felt like they were full Kangs. And you go, they're 13 coaches in 20 years. They had that light to beam season. Then they overextended Sabonis. They did the Barnes extension. Vizenkov, that signing was terrible. They blew the Devin Carter pick. They did the Rosendale.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Recent addition to The Ringer, who we're going to talk sports culture and a lot of college football, then Van Lathan comes in to talk about the championship game and Joel's five favorite things in college football. So that is part one of this podcast because... I'm going to do a part two later with NFL and Million Dollar Picks. That's going to go up, I don't know, 10, 11 hours from now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And it's just like, oh, the Kings are back. But now they're playing well. So I don't know. I'm sure their fans are confused too. Interesting playing team, by the way. Because Fox, you know, Fox and Sabonis, they have two of the top 25 guys in the league. So I'm not positive I would want to see them in the 8-9 game. Lakers, I have 17th, 21 and 17.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They're still in the bottom 10 in the league on defense. They're in the bottom five in the league rebounding. Two things that scare me. There was a Dallas game last week when Dallas abused Austin Reeves to the point that I thought Reeves' corner was going to throw in the towel. And that's the rub with this Lakers team is that any smart team can just attack them defensively.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And it's like, pick your guy. Do you want to attack Reeves? Oh, Connect's out there? Let's attack him. Oh, LeBron's decided not to move around on defense today. Let's just start doing back cuts and making him move around. They're just too easy to score on. I like the Finney-Smith trade though. And Max Christie's playing better and I don't dislike the roster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think they have real issues that are going to surface in the playoffs. But as a regular season team, especially when LeBron plays well or Davis plays well in any given game, it feels like they can beat just about anybody except for like seven teams. But for the most part, this team not even close to being a contender to me. I can't. It would be a miracle if they won one round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And the LeBron plus minus stuff is pretty strange. Like I did that like a week ago, I looked it up. He had the worst plus minus of anyone who's playing 30 minutes or more in a winning team. It was minus 6.2. It's mostly the defense, but if I were them, if Jeannie Buss asked me what to do, I would tell them not to trade any assets. I don't understand the point of doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
There's no scenario where they make the finals. There's no trade out there that would put them in the finals, so. Golden State, number 16, probably in a similar situation. I think the difference is they're in top five defensive rating. They have a bunch of tradable stuff and they desperately need a second scorer. And you could see a world where if they got a second guy who could help out Steph,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Maybe they become friskier. They're well coached. They have a lot of continuity together. The problem is if you get somebody like Jimmy Butler, you're going to have to give up Wiggins in the trade. Now I'm losing stuff defensively. I'm losing other assets. So the trade that makes sense to me is Vucevic. And it's made sense for, I would say, about a month and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And it's basically, you know, Looney can be in and he makes $8 million. Moses Moody, put Peyton's expiring in there or another, Kyle Anderson, whatever you need to do. Throw in a pick and just add Vucevic and kind of have him playing off with Curry. I think somebody told me this. Curry's never had a stretch five in his entire career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Every guy in the league has played with somebody, a three who could make a three, and he's just never had it. Curry's at an interesting point in his career because they've cut his minutes down to like 31 minutes a game. His per 36 is still right around where you want it to be. Like his 26 a game, 45%, 42% from three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But I did my ringer 100 and I couldn't justify putting him in the top 10 anymore, at least right now. It could change in a month. But if he's your best player on a team and the supporting cast is solid, you're just not a contender.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So that is the schedule. Everything is okay here in Southern California. Definitely better than it was three days ago. Still terrible, but we got through all the wins on Tuesday and Wednesday. And now the recovery and all that stuff is... In full swing, I'm gonna talk about some charities and stuff that I like in part two of the podcast. So here's part one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So when I did my top 100, I had Jokic first, Giannis second, I put Shea third, Tatum fourth, Luka fifth for now because he's hurt and there's durability stuff with him that I'm not positive about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And Curry versus... Edwards and Brunson, I think, is the big question there. But those guys are just more reliable night to night at this point. Curry's 36. It's just the way it is. If it was one game with my life on it, it's a different question. But if we're talking about a regular season, I don't see how he's in the top 10 right now. That could change. Next category, the young and funds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Oh, by the way, with Golden State, I don't... This is not the Jimmy Butler team for me. Not worth it. The young and funds... I only have one team in this, Atlanta. I have them 15th, 21 and 19. They got Trey going a little bit. We talked about Trey like a month ago. He's up to 23 a game, 12 assists. His shooting percentages are up a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And he's had some good games when other guys weren't playing. You can kind of see, oh, this is a game I get to shoot 33 times. I still really like this team as like a stealth. You'll beat them in round one, but it's probably not going to be that easy. Their three-point shooting is the thing that's been really hurtful to them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Daniel's 31%, Risa Shea 28%, Jalen Johnson 32%, Bogdanovich 34%, not as high as he used to be. I'm still in on these guys. And they've never had all their guys together for more than like two weeks. So when everybody comes back, I don't think they're a trade team to try to get a better asset, but I think they're gonna be around 44, 45 wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
That's where I have them penciled in, just because the East is gonna really start tanking. That brings to the next category, secretly scary round one opponents. You could talk yourself into Atlanta being there, but Indiana number 15, definitely. They're 22 and 19. They're 11th in pace this year. They were second last year, so they're a little slower. I think that's Siakam related.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They're ninth in offense this year. They were second last year. But the last 15 games, they're fourth in offense. They've had no knee Smith for 35 games. Hal Burns had a weird year, and every time it seems like he gets going, something happened. He just hurt his hamstring. In general, I like this team. And I like what I've seen from Walker the last couple weeks from them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I want to see this team in March. This team is like a pause button. Let's see what you look like on March 10th. And then San Antonio is the other team like that. They're 19 and 20. They're always hanging around these games and they haven't quite figured out how to close them. I think last night was a really good example against Memphis, which was an awesome game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They played the most fun game of the season against Denver a couple Fridays ago. That was the... Wemby is officially here. We knew he was already here, but he's officially here now game where Jokic praised him afterwards and talked about how he was generationally special. Really cool moment. Wemby's 25-11, four assists, four blocks a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Their defense is sixth in the last 15, which is why you have to consider them a scary playoff team. Wemby... We should have a different defensive player of the year award now because he should just get it every year. We should actually have the number two guy should get a separate award. Nobody's ever winning this award again until Wemby's like 35, assuming he stays healthy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I was talking about him with somebody yesterday. He's a foot longer than everybody realizes when they're playing. One of the most fun things about watching him is every... every game there's four or five moments where somebody is in the paint and they think they're going to get them or they think they're going to shoot a floater or they think they're going to get a layup past them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Gonna do the mid-season power pole in one second. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. It's the January 16th, almost mid-season NBA Power Poll. We're going to go from team number 30 all the way down to team number one. Separated by sections. I'm going to get off a bunch of takes. So going backwards, there's five teams that are just openly tanking right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And they just forget he's got this extra foot that his body goes up. And they're always like, Oh, and even as they're shooting it, he's going up and they're realizing mid shot. Oh God, he's going to block this. And they can't stop it because their body has already committed to it. But, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The fact that he's growing like he is, which is not surprising, and then Castle has shown some stuff like he did last night against Memphis. Castle, I think the second half of the year is worth watching as what's his ceiling. This is a terrifying round one team. I don't want to see Wemby in a series, period.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
There was a play last night in the fourth quarter where he ended up with the ball on the left side of the foul line where if he turned into the paint, he could have shot a jump hook. And he never goes there. He's always around the three-point line. They always run stuff with him 25 feet from the basket.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And in this play, he had the ball because a play broke down and they gave it to him on top of the foul line. And the other team immediately panicked. He had, the point guard came down and doubled him. Then he turned into the lane. The third guy came in. So now he's being triple teamed. And then somebody back cut and he was able to pass the guy and get a layup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And it made me think like when he realizes that the foul line is where he needs to be, that's his spot. The same way Nowitzki realized it, the same way Duncan figured out his spot. I talked about this with Kurt Goldsberry a couple of weeks ago. What are his spots on the floor? That left side of the foul line
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
where he can turn and he can either shoot a little 15-footer or he can put his head down into the paint, jump hook, or pass to a cutter, but everything is coming with his right hand. He can hold the ball up like it's a fucking grape. That's the key to Wemby, I think, going forward.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
If he figures out that spot, plus he has the top of the key and the ability to shoot threes, those two things combined, I just think he's going to be an absolute bitch in the playoff. And I'll tell you something else. This is the number one, holy shit, I can't believe they traded for Jimmy Butler team, where the Spurs just say, fuck it. This guy's the sixth best guy in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Maybe we should see what's up. Um, would they do that with their culture? I don't know. This is also a holy shit. They traded for Zion team, which if I was dispersed, that would be the guy I targeted. Bring them into our organization, our culture, put him with Wemby. Now this is the most terrifying circle on anyone's schedule. It's like, oh my God, we have to play Wemby and Zion today. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Next category, puncher's chance, Minnesota. I can't rule them out yet. They're 21 and 19. I have them 12th. They're up to fifth in defense. They were first last year, but now they're fifth, so that's better. Here's the thing. They finally realized something that I've touted on this podcast many, many times over the years and in my column, and it's something I just instinctively believe in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Just play your best five guys. Stop worrying about positions. Oh, we need somebody who's... People always do this with point guards where it's like, well, that guy looks like a point guard. Mike Conley, Godspeed, great career. Really enjoyed him. Incredible teammate. Everybody loves him. It's over. It happens. This is what happens to point guards. He's done. It's a wrap.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So they realized a couple weeks ago we should just play DiVincenzo. and not have a point guard. And DiFrancengio is reinvested and has been playing really well and they're playing better. There's a Conley with Randle where that can get them to about 43 million. They'd have to take somebody back who makes less than that. I don't know if they'd even trade Conley.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
There's no trade for him straight up because he's got another year after this one. But there's still a move with them. And part of that move has to be maybe get Julius Randle out of here. The thing with the Towns trade, which I think has just worked out horribly for them. And this was the worst case scenario of the trade, which was that it boxed them in. Nobody really wants Randle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Now they had to re-sign Conley. Nobody wants him. But it was a financial trade. And it's yet another reason why Glenn Taylor is one of the five worst NBA owners we've had. The move to trade towns and then extend Gobert to try to get him on a cheaper deal was just a fucking double whammy. You can't bounce back from that. And the lesson, as always, is A-Rod is a loser.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The sleeper, number 11, Orlando. They're 28th offensively. There's only two teams in the league worse per 100 possessions than Orlando. And yet, They're four games over .500. Their defense and their camaraderie and their feistiness and their competitiveness has just carried them in all these games. They're opposing rebounding their first. Teams are only 40.6 rebounds a game against them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So they're dominating the boards. They're great against the three. Teams are 31% against them with the three. And they get steals. They get all this stuff. The zombie magic. Unfortunately, they can't shoot and they can't score. Paolo came back. Franz is eventually coming back. And nobody wants to play this team. They're six seed, seven seed, eight seed. I don't want to see them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The Celtics are the three seed and Orlando's the six seed. I'm bummed. That's a really hard team to play. It did make me think, though, this is a good example of NBA depth being deeper in a significant way than it was 13 years ago. You're talking about players like 75 to 300 are so much better than they were in the early 2010s. They have De Silva. Oh, let's just throw him in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
He's not even playing. Now he's in there and we're going to him in crunch time. But Tadzee. I think that's how you say his name. Isaac, Cole Anthony, Anthony Black. These guys are all good. I was looking at the 2012 Celtics, a team that was up 3-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals with a chance to go to the finals. This was their 5-10 guys in that series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Michael Pietras, Brandon Bass, Keon Dooling, Marquise Daniels, Greg Steamsma, and Ryan Hollins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I'm putting them in the capture the flag territory for Cooper flag. Getting a lot of buzz lately, that Cooper flag. I don't care if they do six foot seven. He's going to be awesome. Washington, six and 32. Charlotte, nine and 28. Toronto, 10 and 31. Utah, 10 and 29. That's our 30 to 27 rankings. What's interesting is none of those teams... really have an awesome trade piece.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Still can't get a feel for if this team is a contender or not. They're the league's best coach, solid team. The bottom seven offense, top five defense. They have a pretty good home court advantage now. They have Kawhi at least at the point where I'm interested to see where it is in March and April.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They have this Norm Powell jumping from 14 points a game to almost 24 at age 31, which I think we need a new award. I would get rid of Clutch Player. I never know how to vote that. I would replace it with the Tommy from Goodfellas. Look at this fucking guy. That would be my award. And Norm Powell would win because I have no idea how we went from 14 to 24, but we did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Harden is interesting because on the one hand, he's one of the reasons that they've overachieved. On the other hand, a lot of his best games seem to come against shit defenses or mediocre teams. And then the worst games, if you really watch carefully, it's like against Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Boston, Minnesota. So there's some fool's gold with the heart and pace, 35% from three, 44% on twos.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
He seems like he's the same, but he's not. He can still give you a good quarter, but not a whole game. And they really need Kawhi back for me to take them seriously. So that's the last non-contender for me until we see with Kawhi. All right, next group, definitely lurking. Milwaukee, I have them ninth, 21 and 17. They still have Giannis. That's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They're shooting threes way better than I think anyone expected. They're in the top three there. Really good in corner threes. And I don't want to see them in the playoffs. That's okay. Because that's the 3-6 possibly if it's Boston-Milwaukee. I don't want to see Milwaukee. I don't want to see Orlando. Actually, the way Boston's playing, I don't want to see anybody. But they're lurking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Dallas is lurking. I'm not willing to make any sort of big judgment with Dallas. Luke has missed 19 games. Kyrie with some back stuff that's a little scary because he's been in the league for a while and he's a guard. And I always worry about aging guards hitting their early mid-30s. This is a let's see in March team for me. Also not a lot of moves, but Luca turns 26 next month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Just pointing that out. Usually you have your apex season age 27, age 28. So we're in range and it's not this year, but it's a wait and see team for me. Then Houston, number seven. You could talk me into Houston being fifth. You could talk me into them being 12 because I don't think there's an extra gear. I think they're here. And they're here every game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And when we get to the playoffs, they're still going to be here. They don't have the ability to do this because offensively, it's just too choppy. They're really keeping their fingers crossed with Jalen Green. I watch a lot of Houston. I really, really, really like watching Houston. We're going to talk about it with Joe Anderson in a second. But the Jalen Green piece is the piece.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
43% field goal, 35% threes, 2.6 assists. 4.2 free throw attempts. I'm just reading those stats because this is your crunch time guy. And the odds are he's not going to score or create a shot from somebody else in the biggest moments of the game. So that's one. At least not yet. He's young. Maybe it's in there. And then Van Vliet's the other one who's 15 points a game, six assists.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
His clutch numbers are probably the worst in the league. And those are kind of their two options at the end of games. So, it just turns into a rock fight. And the rock fight recipe, they're third to last in three-point shooting, 28th. They're first in rebounds. And it's just, you watch the last five minutes and it's like watching 90s basketball again. So,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Utah has a couple smaller ones, like Sexton's interesting. Clarkson, although he's not having a great year. Brooklyn at number 26 is our big entry for this. They're 14 and 27. They lost by 59 points last night, and it felt worse. Cam Johnson would be the potential move for them. Pretty decent contract. We've talked about it before on the podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You know, could they turn Van Vliet and a bunch of stuff into Fox? I don't think Sacramento, if I'm Sacramento, I'm not trading Fox, but that's the only way this changes, I think. Otherwise, I'm fine. Joel and I talk about it in the next segment. I'm fine with Houston. Just, hey, this is great. We're a top four seed. Let's see what happens in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Let's see if Jalen Green has another gear. Let's see what Shingun can do. Jabari Smith, let's just see what this looks like for a year and then we'll decide in July who we are. I think that's the move. The contenders. I have six contenders. Number one is Memphis, who's top seven offense defense. Brandon Clark's back. Angry Jaws back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Duncan on Wemby last night, even though it didn't count, still fun. Their bench is just, I've never seen anything like this bench. Brandon Clark, Huff, Aldama, Wells, Kennard, Eady, Laravia, Pippen. I mean, sometimes a couple of those guys will start, but They just can survive and injure anybody in the team for a week and you don't even notice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The LaRavia contract was weird where they did the Jalen Smith thing, didn't renew it. And now I guess he's a trade piece, but he's playing really well. I want to shout out Wells. I used to do when my fingers worked and I had a column, I used to have my Bill Simmons all-stars for random guys in the league I just love. I love Wells.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Wells watch Memphis and watch if the other team has, you know, a really good swing. And Wells is a lot of times the guy guarding the swing and really being a pain in the ass. But I, that guy, there's something there with Wells.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And that's why when you think about, like I've heard Cam Johnson mentioned with them and they could easily trade Marcus smart and LaRavia for Cam Johnson, throwing some picks and, and, and, improve that market smart start. I would want to see what I have with these guys for another couple weeks before I think about a trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And the team seems like they have good chemistry, they really like each other. There's a regular season versus playoffs conundrum with them, that the team in the regular season is perfect with the depth, but in the playoffs, when you have to, when the same team is seeing you six, seven times in two weeks, is there an extra gear? It's the same issue Houston has.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Morant plays three DNP, plays five, misses eight, plays one DNP, plays five DNP, plays two and a half, gets hurt DNP, plays three, misses five. This is, he's just not on the floor enough. And that's why it's the hardest to take them seriously when we have to think about, can they win four straight playoff rounds? We do not have evidence that Morant can play for two months in a row.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So until we do, I have them as a pseudo contender. I do want to mention, Jaron Jackson's been awesome this year, and I loved watching him go at Wemby last night. He really, he's one of those guys who, when he's going against Sabonis, Davis, Wemby, like you really could see him being like, I'm taking the challenge tonight. Denver, number five. Let's go. Jokic, 24 and 16, fourth in offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Their three-point shooting is still abysmal. They're bottom three in the league, but Murray is starting to show signs. As always, online criticism works. No, TV criticism, maybe that works. But Murray does look a little bit better. Jokic has been, you know, they're 25 plus points better when he's out there versus when he's not out there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The Wembley-Jokic battle two Fridays ago was the highlight of the year. He's doing stuff offensively that doesn't seem conceivable. It seems like it's out of the 1962 season. And right now, I don't think he's the MVP because of what SGA is doing and what he means to that OKC team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's basically $22 million a year for a couple years. Could he go to Memphis for Smart and LaRavia and a first baby? I couldn't find a lot of trades for him because a lot of teams don't have contracts to patch together around that mid-20s stuff, or if they do, like some of the second apron teams, what they're sending out has to be more than what Cam Johnson makes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But what's changed is now they're a top four seed and whatever happens these next two months, maybe he can play himself into that combo. They have a GM and coach that famously... Doesn't seem great. I've heard that they don't talk. I find that hard to believe, but it's the worst kept secret in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
There was a thing where they presented Malone with some sort of Wednesday and Calvin Booth is the GM and he presented in this jersey. And I was like studying the clip because I was like, I thought these guys didn't interact. I love that Russell Westbrook is relevant on this team. And they really needed him. They needed him when Murray was kind of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
you know, flame it out a little bit there for a while. They needed him in days when Aaron Gordon, when he got hurt for, they just needed his energy, his rebounding, how weird he is, the fact that he just puts up stats. And he's been really good for them. Like, I think he's been way outkicked his coverage of what they ever could expect of Westbrook. But I was, I wrote down
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Putting him on this Jokic team, I'm not sure if it's like Daniel Day-Lewis in an Apatow comedy or Will Ferrell in a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, but it's so weird, I'm kind of into it. It's just constantly weird. There's a lot of no, no, no, Russ shots with like three minutes left where he just decides, I'm gonna take this corner three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But he plays really hard and it really seems like Jokic likes him. So I think he's been a bonus. I think he's kind of saved them in some respects because he's not afraid and he puts up stats. Number four, the Knicks. The Towns trade is just amazing. Just an incredible trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I know their defense dropped, but just when you think like the two assets they gave up versus the one they got back and how great he's been, it's an amazing trade. 25 and 14, 55%, 45% from three. Really has a chance if we were doing the old school center forward guard for all NBA. Really has a chance to be second team all NBA. Might make second team all NBA anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think I'd rather have him than Anthony Davis at this point, as crazy as that sounds. He's younger and I just think he's more impactful day to day. The tip stuff is the thing to watch. The minutes that he's putting on these dudes. Last night, overtime. He's just hard played 49 minutes. Brunson's playing... 40 plus minutes and really hard games and also doing two thirds of the stuff offensively.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And I just feel like he's going to burn these dudes out. And as a Celtics fan, this is where I take my basketball analyst part out. Just as a Celtics fan, please, Tibbs, continue to play these guys 40 plus minutes a game. Thank you. The Celtics, number three, 28 and 12. Second offense, sixth defense. Started out 16 and three. They are seven and seven in their last 14 games. So what's going on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Well, you win the title and it could go one of two ways. Either you have a huge chip on your shoulder and it's like, we got the bullseye, come get us, and you just kick everyone's ass. That would be like the 92 Bulls. Or then the more typical way it goes is you got a little bit of an on-off switch. You feel like you can still turn it on and it's going to be there when it needs to be there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The Celtics had a road trip the other night where the first two games were Houston and Minnesota and they just played really well. And it was one of those road trips where it's like, all right, we still got it. And then they immediately fell apart after and lost some games. They're losing games at home. They're not shooting nearly as well. Like last year, there were...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's a little complicated, but Memphis was the one team I was kind of looking at. A fun topic with the Nets is what's Ben Simmons' next contract? Probably minimum. Would somebody get frisky around like July 6th and be like, ah, Ben Simmons, all NBA a couple years ago. And all of a sudden he's making two years for 20. Who knows? I really like this draft though. And I'm just starting to get into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They were 39% on threes and 49% just field goal in general. So very close to where Cleveland is this year. This year, they're 46 and 36. So it's not dramatic, but it's a little dramatic. It's three points a game. They don't rebound as well as they did last year. They were second in rebounding last year. They're ninth this year. Tatum has a way bigger rebounding burden than he used to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And White has just really fallen off the last 20 games, and I think he's hurt. And I think he's been hurt for a month plus, and I just think he's playing hurt because he was incredible the first five weeks, and he hasn't been. Drew's older. Drew is a little more hit or miss than maybe he was last year. I'm still not worried. But what worries me is this. Last year was a cakewalk to the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It wasn't their fault. It was just the way it played out. If they fall to a three seed, potentially that's Milwaukee or Orlando in round one. Milwaukee is Giannis. Orlando potentially defensively could be a real issue for them, especially if you watch the stagnant Celtics offense lately. Knicks round two, not having home court. Cleveland round three, no home court.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's like night and day compared to last year. So there's stuff, you know, KP's just coming back in a real way. Tatum's been stupendous. Fifth in scoring, 18th in rebounding. Plays his ass off every night. Plays defense. He's just a top five guy in the league by any calculation. Jalen's shooting numbers are down. So it's all little stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And I'm willing to say it's more in the camp of we won last year. We're kind of hibernating until the playoffs. I don't love it though with the younger team. And I don't love the white stuff at all. I want to really know what's going on with them. The schedule is rough. They really need that two seed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And if I'm the Knicks, if I'm the Knicks, I'm playing Jalen Brunson in heart 48 minutes a game trying to get that two seed. I think that's what they should do. Wink, wink. Cleveland, number two, 34 and five. First offense, they're basically the 2021 Celtics. They've basically recreated what that Celtics team was. They're 50% on field goals, 40% from threes. They can play defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
The Celtics had those two forwards that were a huge mismatch for everyone, Brown and Jalen. The Cavs more have that same thing with the guards, with Mitchell and Garland. What's crazy is they really, really, really played the minute stuff well. Mitchell's 31 a game. Mobley's 30 and a half. Garland's 30.3 and Allen's 29. And what's their record? 34 and five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Those guys are sitting for one third of every game. They're killing teams. And it's very similar to Boston last year. And I said this a couple weeks ago, I'll say it again. I take them really seriously. I do not think this is a regular season team. I think they're really good. And I think Mitchell is ready for a bigger moment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And Mitchell might, if you're doing a draft of all the guys this year, when we get to the playoffs, who might have started here and went up to here, like Jalen Brown last year, Mitchell's the number one candidate. And I would have Wemby number two. Just while we're here, things you're not allowed to say on pregame shows about Cleveland or OKC anymore. People got to start talking about SGA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We're talking. People got to start realizing how good Donovan Mitchell is. We know. People got to start talking about Jalen Williams. We are. People got to start talking about Evan Mobley. We are. People got to give more props to the job Sam Presti has done. We have. People gotta take OKC more seriously. We are. They're the favorites on FanDuel. Which takes me to OKC, the favorite. 33-6.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
First in defense by a lot. This is one of the great defenses. Regular season-wise, anyone is put together. They force turnovers at an absurd rate. Everybody seems to, the only real weakness they have is opponents can rebound on them a little bit. They've shown the ability to come back in games from double digits.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They did against Minnesota and the Clippers and the Knicks and the Celtics, which I think is significant. Chet, I don't know when he comes back, but they're doing all this without Chet. When Chet comes back, this becomes a nightmare team. I don't think they make a trade. My guess is they don't. If they made a trade, they'd probably try to improve the Wiggins spot or the Isaiah Joe spot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Once football ends, I'm going to throw myself into it a little bit more because it's fun. But flag, love, two record kids, the Lithuanian kid at Illinois. I think there's real stakes. And I think we're going to see some pretty incredible tanking as we get on the stretch. The next category is the pre-tankers. which includes Portland at 25. They're 13 and 26.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And I just don't think Presti rolls that way. If you go back and you look at the KD Russ Harden era, Harden was really the only trade he made during a five, six year stray. He did the Jeff Green Perkins. That was pretty early before they made the finals. And then he did the Harden trade, which was a financial trade. But for the most part, he's a continuity guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And I think they roll with what they have. Their playoffs could look like round one, maybe it's San Antonio, maybe it's the Lakers, maybe it's the Kings or the Warriors. Round two, Denver or Dallas. Round three, Memphis or Houston. And I don't see anybody beating these dudes. And the biggest reason is SGA, who is out off of the following guys head-to-head just this season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
45 against Harden, 45 against Hal Burton, 40 against Ant, 39 against Luka, 36 against LeBron, 35 against Curry, against Boston and Tatum. He did 33-11-6. Played the Knicks twice, 39 and 33. Best player in the league this season. He's got to be the MVP because he's meant the most to the best team in the league. Now, you could say, well, why didn't we do this with Tatum last year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
He's just been more impactful day to day than Tatum is. And I can't believe this is the guy I watched as a kid on the Clippers as a rookie. I never in a million years would have thought that this would become one of the best, most creative scoring guards I've ever seen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Him and Brunson, watching those guys just over and over again get the shots they want and create the shots they want against these defenses that are designed to stop them, is pretty nuts. Is it going to work in a series? It really depends on Jalen Williams. That's going to be it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's because at some point during a seven-game series, you're going to try to take out SGA and you're going to send second guys in them and you're going to make other team and you're going to make the three-point shooting beat you and you're going to put the ball in the hands of Jalen Williams and you're going to say, you know what, dude? Go for it. If you beat us, so be it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And from what we've seen him in the playoffs last year and even in the NBA Cup this year, I'm not positive he can do it, but that's the play against them once we get to the playoffs. They're the best team in the league. I think they have a legitimate chance had 70 games because of their depth, 70 wins because of their depth. So could they get to 70-12, 71-11?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's possible because night to night, game to game with how good their defense is and their scoring and their three-point shooting, I think they can get there. Anyway, that is our half-season power poll. Coming back, we're going to talk to Joel Anderson from The Ringer and then eventually Joel Anderson and Van Lathan about college football. See you in a second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
If you catch them on the right night, they look pretty good. It's a weird team. They remind me of when you go through one of those old basketball handbooks or basketball reference and you go to the 1979 season and you just look at the players on teams. You're like, hmm. That's an interesting team. What were they thinking there? They have three centers and no point guards and eight wings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
In this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food, no matter what you're craving. From two-for-one pizza to buy one, get one wings, Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week. All season long. Uber Eats, the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. All right, Joel Anderson is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We have a whole long history. How many times did we almost work together before we actually decided to work together?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I thought there was a 2014 too. Wasn't there a Grantland era? We definitely talked then. We talked in 16. We talked in 20. And it just, for whatever reason, never worked out. Now all of a sudden you're with The Ringer and we couldn't be happier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's so funny. Yeah, because we had talked as usual. I probably forgot to follow up two weeks later. And then So anyway, it finally worked out. But we always felt like, back to the Grantland days, you know, sports culture, real life stuff. Like, we always liked the people who dabbled into all these different circles. You're like the epitome of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You care about all these different crazy, all the stuff you've done in the past. What was the... The best narrative podcast, what was the one you were proudest of, of all the stuff you did?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
What was the most surprising thing you learned about Tupac and Biggie when you worked on that one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
What the hell is this team? That's kind of Portland right now. I also think DeAndre Ayton probably should have played in 1979. Might have been a better year for him. I don't know what this team is. I don't know what the point of it is. And I'm not sure they know either. I don't know what the trades are. Ayton is now untradeable, I think. He's been pretty bad. Scoot?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
How many years before somebody does the Drake Kendrick version of that podcast thing? Do we need time to pass? What's the right amount of time to actually let everything settle and then dive into it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah. I don't know what the right level of distance is. And especially in the documentary era. It really feels like that shortened. You know, like the last dance to me, what was that, 22 years?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
From the last season. That was kind of the perfect amount of nostalgia time. It really was. It really was. Because you want people... You want them to have enough distance that they can really say shit after the fact, right, in the interviews. And The Last Dance is a good example. I've certainly had all that. But also, there's a whole new generation moving up that wants to learn more about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So, yeah, I just feel like that window is shortened now. Now it's like 10, 12 years and not 20.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah, I think Isaiah probably has more of a case for feeling like he was completely betrayed by it. Yeah, he just comes off like the villain. Pippen's more complicated because they tell the whole story about, you know, in 94 when MJ's gone and he doesn't want to come back in the game. That was a big part of his legacy. Like when I wrote about him in my book a million years ago,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
A lot of what I wrote in the Pippen part was about it's unfair that that moment framed his career when he was like the most selfless teammate, awesome guy to play with, one of the best 30 players ever. But I think if you really watch The Last Dance again, the last episode, it circles back and talks about how much pain he was in in the 98 finals. But part of me wonders, did Pippen even finish it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Because by the end of it, it's like heroic watching him go through this stuff. But I mean, big picture, what changed is I think sports people are so much more hesitant now to be in docs unless it's about them, unless they're the stars. You don't want to be the bad guy in a sports doc.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think the Isaiah thing, we dealt with it with the Celtics when we did this nine-part Celtics doc that's coming out in 2025. Yeah. 15 years ago, we would have gotten everybody. This time around, it's so much harder to get people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
is the one they have to figure out if they can unlock as an asset. He had 39 points two nights ago. My stockbroker called me immediately. But before that 39 point game was trending toward the most wrong I've ever been about a lottery pick in the last 35 years. And I actually made a list. I went through and I tried to remember guys that I was super high on and why didn't it work out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Sadly, no. But it's just, I think, the way it is going forward because... in the late 2000s especially, nobody really knew what documentaries were. They weren't like, they weren't made like they are now where it's like they're leading Netflix and they're leading HBO and whoever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So I think the stakes feel higher and people either feel like if it's not about them or if they're not getting paid, they're, They just don't want to be in it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
i need something out of this for myself right um and actually though now that you mentioned it i would watch the scotty pippen documentary you know well he so his whole background which they went into a little in the last dance but you know it's he was about as broke as it gets growing up as a kid like his i think his dad was uh basically couldn't work was handicapped and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So that kind of led to all the financial decisions he made were just trying to grab money, grab these extra long contracts where you're not getting paid. Never being able to bet on yourself because you needed money so bad. And it was like this eight-year spin cycle for him. Just bad contract after bad contract. And unfortunately with sports, like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You make a couple bad decisions, you can't get out of it. Now we have the NBA where you have, like, Jimmy Butler or Bradley Beal stuck in situations they don't like, but they're making $50 million a year. So it's like, I don't really feel that bad for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's such a mid-2020s... thing where it's like here on the one hand, I see the case for Jimmy, like brought the team to the finals in 20 and 23 was expecting them to make some sort of upgrade. It's not Miami's fault. I don't think necessarily that Portland didn't want what they were offering for Dame lowered, but they didn't get anybody else. So he's doing the, I'm not getting enough help thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I kind of see it. I also see the Miami side of like, we're paying you 50 million a year. You're the best guy in the team. We're paying you to be there, you know, for nine months a year. We don't want to have to wonder when you're playing or not. And why are you unhappy? So it's, it just feels like a bad marriage. Like it's the classic bad sports marriage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Going backwards, I think these were the biggest misses for me. Wiseman, 2020. Not 100% my fault. Mostly my fault. Not 100% my fault. It was the COVID year. He had barely played at Memphis. Theoretically, he made sense as this big guy who could pass. It just didn't work out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I remember making those points when he was being, when he was being shopped to the different teams. And then everybody was like, you're just Celtics fan. You don't want Miami to get Dame. It's like, look, there's some evidence that he's an awful defensive player. He's also a little guy hitting his early mid-30s, which we have a lot of evidence with that, that that gets a little dangerous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I actually think he's been a little better in Milwaukee this year than I was expecting. But the Jimmy thing is in such a strange spot now because he also has this player option next year. So if you trade for him, you're also paying him next year. So it's a two-year commitment. It's his only leverage over Miami because if they don't trade him, then he could just opt in and now they're paying him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So now he's screwed up one year instead of two for them. But if you're Miami, you don't want to take a bad contract back. So if Philly's like, all right, fine, take Paul George. You can have him this year and the next three. Miami's going to be like, no way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
thing like he's not going to allow them to be bad yeah because they have some good assets and right they're a little bit better than being in the middle but they're not they're not a top six playoff team Right. Heroes playing the best he's ever played. And if Jimmy comes back the way that he could actually play, they're pretty interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They're not going to make the finals again, but I don't, I don't, it's an unsolvable one because what you don't want to do is compound a mistake by taking somebody else's mistake. That's why Bradley Beal's never happened in a million years. But if Phoenix plays worse and worse, eh, maybe now Durant becomes a possibility, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And at least you're taking advantage of somebody else's misfortune to get out of yours.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So to recap, you're not totally fired up you didn't get a generational super duper star.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I forgot about your Rockets connection. I think they're the most fascinating team to be a fake GM for when you just look at their assets? Cause they're, they're 26 and 12, you know, or at least when we're taping this on a Wednesday, every time I feel like they're going to maybe tail off a little bit like Jabari Smith got hurt and you think, all right, here we go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I don't have a ton of regrets about it like I do with Scoot, where I just thought Scoot was going to be this downhill Russell Westbrook, unbelievable athlete guy, and we just haven't seen it. I have no excuses with Scoot. Wiseman, there's some excuses. Lonzo in 2017, I was super high on. And he just got hurt. So I don't feel bad about that. Jabari Parker, 2014, I really liked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Cause this team is not a 26 and 12 team. They last five minutes of a game. They can barely get a decent shot off. And it's going to dip. And then they just keep winning and winning. And they're really mentally tough. They play good D. They have good coach. And I don't know what I would do. I don't know what the tweak is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
There's not. At least right now. No, there's not. So the question you have to ask when you're in a situation like them is... Like OKC two years ago. They were like basically a 500 team. They played really well together. They had a certain ceiling to what they were doing. And he was very hesitant of trading anything for it. Then last year... Same thing, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They ended up, they really could have beaten Dallas. They could have made the finals, but they were still really hesitant about making a move. And then this year was when they made the move. And I think if I was Houston's conciliary, unless I could get Darren Fox for Van Vliet and some picks, like if that was really sitting there, you have to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Like if you can, if you can basically just change your point guard position, cause Van Vliet, I, I admire the guy plays hard. He's an overachiever, but he's just, when he has the ball with three minutes left in a tie game, you, I don't have any confidence in scoring. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You don't mind him having the ball. No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So they could get like a, like a Fox type level guy, like a Booker somehow became available. Um, Um, that's the only thing I would think about. I w I want another year with Jalen green. Cause I still don't know what he is. Yep. Um, yeah. Same thing with Jabari who I, I think I like a little more than most. And then I think their number one asset is Thompson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Like if I'm just like, if I'm ranking their trade assets, I think he might be number one for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah. At least I think, yeah. I know a couple people that have seen it, seen the Rockets in person this year separately in different cities and all of them texted me after and were like, oh my God, like this guy athletically. And it was same, same feeling I got too, where it's like, Just certain guys move differently. You know, and this is a league of these awesome athletes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
These are some of the best athletes we've produced as a country. And yet some guys still stand out. And he was one of the guys that you're watching going, man, it just feels like he's a split second faster, more athletic. He can bend in any way, more explosive. Like he's just, I don't know what his ceiling is, but from what I've seen so far, there's no reason to me that
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Like a Pippen would be the ceiling for me. And I don't think that's a crazy thing to say. No, not at all. I mean, how old is he again? He's like 20? Yeah, he's like 21. 20 or 21, something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Now, his knees were made of Fusilli, so I don't know how much blame I can get for that one, but he also belonged to this different era. He made way more sense in the 1990s and 2000s, what his game was, the scoring small forward who couldn't guard anybody. And then as the league shifted, it's like, is he a four, is he a three? So I feel a little bad about that one, but not scoot level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Well, we don't know offensively. We don't know is the shot ever going to be there. Scottie always... You know, he was basically going to Michael Jordan basketball camp every day. So the IQ stuff from MJ kind of eventually morphed. But he was always such a good playmaker and, like, passer. And, you know, he had a little weird post-up game. And I don't know if that stuff's in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
But the defensive athleticism stuff... Like if you're doing grades, he's A plus. A plus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Well, one fun thing that, one fun thing that's happening with Houston, Memphis, Oklahoma City. And then I'm going to say half of Minnesota. But you have some real alpha-y defensive teams, athletes. They're all kind of around the same age range for the most part. And when you watch the league pass, you'll be like, oh, Houston's playing Memphis. This game's going to be fucking awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You know, oh my God, Houston's OKC tonight. Oh my God, I can't wait. So there's this little subset now of the league that's like basically the sons of LeBron. All of them were probably... They don't even remember the NBA when LeBron wasn't in it. And they're... It's something, you know what I mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They beat somebody and Zion was, I don't know if they're auditioning him. I'm on the record. It's the most fun trade that we can come up with in basketball right now is Zion to the Spurs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
No, I'm telling you. No. What? Put Zion with Wemby. Zion, trade their stuff a couple picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Put him in a different organization.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Get him the ball. You're out. Why don't you like that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah. He's, he's playing it all out. I, I, I wouldn't compare, this isn't an exact comparison because Randy Moss was better than Zion and Randy Moss did more stuff than Zion and he was healthier than Zion. But there was a moment when, when Randy Moss was on the Raiders that year and they were a dumpster fire and you know, everything was wrong. He wasn't playing that hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And his asset as a trade asset slipped to the point the Patriots stole him for like a fourth rounder. It was a fourth round pick. It was crazy. All right, right. But they got him and then he was immediately rejuvenated. I do wonder like if that happens, whoever gets Zion, if they could just get him in the right thing, would that be like the best trade you could make?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Michael Kidd Gilchrist in 2012, I loved. I liked him at Kentucky. I just thought he was going to be an incredible... Three and D guy. Once he learned how to shoot threes, guess what? Never learned how to shoot threes. He had some weird elbow thing. His elbow was always like, uh, I forget what it was like a childhood injury or something. He just could never shoot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's the worst organization in the league. That's a huge part of this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And he's at least showing flashes too. Even in the playing game before he got hurt. He was taking it to LeBron in a way that was unusual.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah. Well, I know new Orleans is bad for me when I'm there for four days. So I can't imagine when you're here with some of the vices that he has. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's like Vegas. Yeah. Vegas is fun for three days. This is too much. The thing with him, these are the NBA players I grew up with where these guys, they have so much talent. They're so awesome. but they never find the right spot, right situation, whatever. And then it just never happens. Oh, Van Latham's here. He's going to join us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We'll take a, we'll take a quick break, come back and talk some college football with Van. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Whatever you're into, it makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of Prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them, if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. All right, Van Lathan is here. He's joining us. We're going to talk college football. Yes. It's the first time you guys have been on a podcast together? Yeah, ever. A lot of respect for this guy, yeah. Likewise, man, likewise. College football. I'm going to let you guys carry this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
This one is probably my worst one since scoot. Um, Derek Williams in 2011, uh, I still don't know what happened here. When you think like where the league was going, 2011, that's right when Curry was starting to blow up a little bit of Golden State. Maybe a year later was when the Curry and the threes started. But Derek Williams on paper, like the perfect stretch for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I'm just going to be the point guard to set you up. I'm going to be like Reed Shepard in the G League, just running fast breaks and raining threes. We have Joel's five favorite things for college football. Before we do that, Notre Dame, Ohio State. Every person I know who gambles on college football is like, just throw Ohio State in a parlay. It's a wrap. They're too big. They're bigger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They're better. Like this is, this is done. They were the eighth seed this year. Yeah. Is this done? Does Notre Dame, is there nobody believes in this case?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Like a Pittsburgh Steelers situation? Exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Two follow-up questions off this one. Ohio state was the eight that ranked eighth heading into the playoffs. So a year ago, they're not in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So now they're going to, they're heavily favored to win the title. So what does that mean? Big picture? Were we just doing this wrong the last 20 years? Do we have to go back and go through all the times when maybe the wrong team won? No, no, no. What does it mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Like just exactly what you'd want. Somebody, good athlete who could rebound and shoot threes. And I don't really know what happened. He went to Minnesota. It just, it just, I'd love to do his career again. I'm not going to admit 100% defeat on it, but I'll admit 90% defeat. Ricky Rubio, 2009. My two favorite guys in that draft were Curry and Rubio.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Yeah. I watched that game and it was, the announcers were shocked as it was happening. I mean, yeah. What's your take?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Right, so like that Michigan loss in the old system is catastrophic for them. It's like one of the worst losses in the history of Ohio State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It's going to be like Washington with Jaden Daniels when he wins the Super Bowl in three weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Also like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I don't even remember that happening. Is that the Patriots?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And not in that order, because I liked Rubio more. I thought Rubio was going to be a generational point guard. I was all in. I'm not positive I was wrong. Because, first of all, he goes to that weird Minnesota team, they have 100 point guards. He doesn't come over right away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Get in problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Viore. I love sports. I know you do too. I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear. Especially, you know, I do a lot of walking. I walk around LA. I make calls. I listen to podcasts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Notre Dame. Can you walk me through the relationship Notre Dame has now in 2025 with America? Because I know what it meant in the 70s and 80s. To me, it felt like the biggest school on the planet forever. And then all of a sudden it wasn't. And then it came back. And now where are we in 2025? I mean, I think it's still probably personal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Right as it's starting to really happen for him on the T-Wolves, Kobe crashed into his knee and he blew out his ACL and he just, he was never the same. I would love to do his career over again. I still feel like I was right on him and it just didn't happen. So, still not as bad as Scoot. And then the last one, Jay Williams in 2002.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Do I get to count my Celtics title from 1950?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
You know what really happened? Shaq went to LSU. Shaq went to LSU and it bankrupted the whole school for like 10 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think I have a column in the archive somewhere where I thought he was a better pick than Yao Ming. I'm not positive I was wrong. Jay Williams was a really exciting guard. I remember we talked about this on, he came on my podcast like seven, eight years ago. He was an electric Westbrook Rose kind of athletic point guard that he was definitely something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Can I throw our hottest take at you guys? Most important guy this century for the SEC, Dante Culpepper. Why? Because if Saban picks Drew Brees over Dante Culpepper, he never goes to Alabama.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
With Les Miles? With Les Miles? For real? I don't know if that hottest take worked, but I wanted to fire it up anyway. I still think Saban's in the NFL now if he has Drew Brees. He would have had Drew Brees for 15 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Then he had the motorcycle accident, we'll never know. So out of all of these, I think Scoot was just the biggest miss for me because I thought athletically what he was as a downhill guy and as a competitor, I just thought he was going to be awesome. And I missed it. And I'm still holding on to stock. Maybe it'll turn around. 39 points the other night. Not giving up yet. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Can we switch gears? Cause we're running out of time. All right, Joel, rip it off. Your five favorite things about college football this season. Van and I are the audience. I made you have a list. You can go five to one or one to five. Your choice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Well, he went to UNLV and then left after three games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And I thought... Well, the follow through is they didn't fucking pay him. Whatever the money was, I just don't think he got it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
There was a third piece to it, though, which is you have, like, thousands of these business deals being cut left and right, right? With teenage kids or kids who are 20, 21 with these different colleges. They're probably not. They're just like, yeah, yeah, we'll get you $25,000 by... So there's so much room for sleaziness that I don't think we've ever seen before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We've only had this with boosters before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
or protect the schools either you're just seeing a lot of promises not being met we'll see how who has the power at the end of the day it's either the wild wild west or it's like that new netflix show where just everybody gets brutally murdered what's that show american something the western about tim riggins is on it it was on netflix it's like set in the 1800s everybody just kills everybody oh is that roots
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Number 24, Chicago. They're 18-23. Super fun team. Great league pass team. Levine has been awesome. Levine has rejuvenated himself as a trade value asset to the point that if you're ranking him against all the other guys who are definitely available, you'd probably want him the most. You definitely want him more than Beal. So he's 23, five and five. He's like a 50, 40, 80 guy this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
No. No, it's Peter Berg's new show. It's called American something. It's about Wyoming and just, it's like 1883 more bound. Anyway. All right. Wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I would also add for Saban, I loved when Shane Gillis made fun of him and Saban didn't know how to handle it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Saban had no sense of humor about it. He was like, who the fuck is this guy? He's saying we cheated? By the way, how does he know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
No, he was just talking. He made a paying the players joke.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I think as a fourth-rounder, he's a must. Once you get past the second round, you're just throwing darts against the dartboard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It feels like he's going to have some moment where somebody starting running back will get hurt next year or a year from now. And that guy's going to go in and have like 110 yards and be the big fantasy pickup. Yeah. God only knows. I mean, that dude beasted against Texas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
He's had good games against really good teams. Like he had two really good games against Knicks. Really good game against Boston. Two really good games against Memphis. A really good game against San Antonio. He's putting up big stats against excellent defensive teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It felt like they were almost running like a goal line defense on him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
So anyway. So Hunter's your favorite because obviously I'm moving into, I have the fourth pick in the draft with my beloved Patriots because we fucked up the last game of the season. But Carter is one of the guys, the fan base is kind of, we have a new coach. He wants to build around the lines. We're like, look at this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I mean, you should be amazing pass rusher, but he's probably not going to be there for, I feel like he's going to go before that, man. Yeah. I mean, it feels like a Willie Anderson situation, right? He'll just go second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Or we, I think that's where we probably end up. So you would play Hunter D back or receiver?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Because it seems like the move with him, and maybe he ends up on the pats, I don't know, but cornerback... and then special packages, and maybe third and eight and up he comes in, and he's like your third receiver. And so maybe he's like 10 offensive plays a game and then cornerback, which even that would be like nobody's doing that now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I remember as a kid, or I wasn't a kid, I guess I was in college, when Deion... He was the D-back, but then every once in a while they would play him at receiver. Every time he came in, it was so fucking exciting. I was like, are they going to throw a bubble screen? Are they just going to throw a deep for him? It was like, you couldn't take your eyes off it. All right, number one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
and I think he's a really interesting trade piece as we head toward the deadline, because I don't know why Chicago wouldn't, wouldn't want to explore trading him. Um, but compared to bail and some of the other ones, even Jimmy Butler, who you just have no idea where his head's at. I think he's a legit trade asset. I think Vucevic is a legit trade asset.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
With the stakes for Ohio State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I could not believe it. I love this theory that that loss was worse than the high of winning a title. But let me tell you something. That's a really interesting seesaw. And it diluted home, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Do you guys like Ohio State fans?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I will always, for the rest of my life, think Mahomes got a concussion in that Bengals game at the end of the first half. Right. And he was never the same after that moment. And that was when they lost. And I still can't believe they didn't make the Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
We have to run. Van, a pleasure. Joel? Awesome to finally have you on. Yeah, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
On the other hand, why, why give those guys away? Like you're, you're, you're going to be a top 10 draft pick anyway, probably. Um, I don't know why I would just be like, yeah, sure, take Vooch for a protected first. I'd rather just keep him and hope his value goes up. Regardless, this is the perfect Jerry Reinsdorf team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Joel and to Van. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti for producing. As always, don't forget, you can watch clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And don't forget, part two of the Thursday extravaganza is coming later tonight. NFL, lots of it. See you in a couple hours.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
They're mediocre, they're fun to watch, they're not in the luxury tax, and keep cashing those checks, Jerry. Next category, we just did the pre-tankers. I'm calling this category the rock and the hard place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Four and 19 against above 500 teams. Yikes. Paul George, he's played 26 games. He's shooting 42%. 2.7 free throw attempts a game. As you know, I love free throw attempts because it tells you, does somebody go to the basket or not? He doesn't go to the basket anymore. Not sure what he's doing. He was 5.3 free throw attempts two years ago. Just in general, looks old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I don't know if this is a phase because he was hurt before the year. Maybe his conditioning wasn't there. Maybe podcasting. Maybe he's proving that podcasting is more grueling than you guys give it credit for. He doesn't look the same. And he doesn't look the same to the point that I think if Philly called Miami and said, we'll give you Paul George for Jimmy Butler, I don't think Miami does it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Here are two words that will change everything. Viore clothing. a line of active wear that is unbelievable. The best thing about Viore is you can lounge around in it, you can work out in it, you can go outside, you can go shopping down in your local wherever, and you never feel like you're either underdressed or overdressed. You're just comfortable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I don't think they want any part of three more years after this year of Paul George. So he's hit that point already, unless he can show on a basketball court that he's better than that. Because right now we're not seeing it. I didn't like when he complained about playing the five when it beats out. And he said it was, this is just not that fun for me. You're trying to win games. You're 15 and 24.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
Maybe do whatever it could take to make the team better. Rough signing. So you have that. The Nick Nurse thing has gone terribly and I am not ruling him out for the Amazon NBA studio show next season. I think he's got to be in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
For his career, he's missed 404 games now. And he's played 446. So he's edging toward 50-50, I played or I didn't play, for my entire career. They had a 4-5 this week. That was the biggest stretch of their season. Playing all playoff teams, all really good teams. He missed the first two. We'll see what happens with the others. He's got knee stuff plus a foot thing and...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
It just doesn't seem like it's going to happen again in the same way. I remember Goldsberry asked me earlier in the year, is he in like a 2008 Shaq stage, Embiid? 2008 Shaq played. He was, I think, third team on NBA. Embiid doesn't play. And when you miss 404 games, over the course of 11 years, yikes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
When he did play, offensively looks great, can still get to the free throw line, can still make that little 20-footer at the top of the key, is still big and huge. He falls down all the time, falls down more than ever. I think his fall down per 48 minutes is the highest it's ever been. The thing that was really alarming with him was the Golden State game a couple weeks ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
I'm not sure if you guys saw it, but Golden State was just doing the thing where they just, everybody's cutting and moving and passing and the ball's flying around. They're doing the 2014 Spurs thing. And Embiid was wandering around like a drunk guy outside of the bar at 2.15 in the morning trying to keep up with it. And if you watch that one game,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
you would say to yourself, it is impossible to think that this team could win four straight playoff rounds, which if they make the playoffs now, they'd have to win at least one playing game, maybe two. They'd have to play Cleveland in round one, right? Then you'd have to play the winner of whoever the four or five is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan
And then the Knicks Celtics would be waiting in the last, I mean, there's no way. So I was thinking like, The Knicks, who they always had this relationship with Embiid, with Leon Rose and Wes, and those were his guys. And it was always like, well, if he ever gets unhappy in Philly, the Knicks will trade for him. Can you imagine if the Knicks went all in for Embiid last summer?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, what's funny is Minnesota is a really good road team. They're 20 and 15 now on the road, which I think other than OKC is the best record in the West. The Clippers are a terrible road team. They're 14 and 20. I don't think the Lakers care where they play. And they're going to have Laker fans at any whatever. I think it matters for Houston, though. Houston, I kept waiting to fall off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And it felt like it was going to happen a couple of times, but they're kind of lingering around, hanging around. And Lakers-Houston would be a really, really fun kind of old school, new school series. I don't know how the Lakers are going to hold on if LeBron misses three to four weeks here. And who knows?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
We've seen him recover really fast sometimes and recover really slow other times when there was less at stake. But when you take him out of it... But you take his you take the rebounding defense second playmaker thing on top of all the other stuff they've already lost. And it just feels like insurmountable for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Their next ones are at Denver Friday, home Suns, home Spurs. Might be able to go two and one in those three. Home Nuggets, home Bucks, home Bulls. Josh Giddey Renaissance is here. At Orlando, at Indiana, at Chicago, at Memphis, home Rockets. That's the rest of the month. So they have to go 500 in that stage. But do you care if you're the seven seed?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And then I brought my dad on because he wanted to do a Boston sports report and went to the OKC Celtic game last night. And I had to indulge him. Anyway, that is next. Here are our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Kurt Goldsberry is here. You can read him on TheRinger.com. You can listen to him on various Ringer podcasts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So you're probably playing the Clippers in the 7-8 game, right? With real stakes because you don't want to see any part of OKC in round one. And you're playing the Clippers at home. Like it would suck to be the seventh seed and have the extra game. But if I'm Golden State, I'm fine. You know, all right, fine. We'll beat the Clippers in the 7-8 and we'll just play the two seed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Like it's not a complete disaster. It's a disaster if you lose though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So do you like the 7-8-9-10 or would you go 7-10-8-9?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Part of me wonders if it should be 7-10, 8-9, and then the 7 still doesn't necessarily... It's not a win or go home for the 7-10. They would still get to play the 8-9 with home court. But the way they have it, I think, probably makes more sense. And the 7-8 is usually a really good game. I mean, part of the problem with playing this year is... The 10 seed in both conferences sucks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
At least in the West, they have an excuse because of what happened to Dallas, the Zombie Mavericks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But they're still the 10 seed. The Zombie Mavericks with Spencer Dinwiddie and... Uh, I don't even know what center they'd have left and PJ Washington. They might actually be the 10 seed. Phoenix is just like, guys, we've been trying to make this clear for two months. We want to have the season from out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
We don't want to be in there, but you go to the, the East and it's like, ah, all right, Chicago, Chicago is 27 and 38. It might be in there. And then you look at Miami, who's 29 and 36. They've lost five. Joe House on the Ringer Gambling Show for the last two weeks, he's convinced Miami's tanking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And his thing on the last two weeks on the Ringer Gambling Show is bet against them second half, live bet against them. They take a lead first half, then they throw it away second half. I don't know if that's true. but they're a fucking mess, and Bam looks terrible lately.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Anyway, I think the 9-10 in the East has a chance to be one of the more depressing playing games we've had, maybe the number one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Bulls, Heat, who don't even want their pick, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I know, but how long do we have to wait for Orlando?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Sucks us out for the year. Magic are a cross off to me. Atlanta at least has all of these wings when they get everybody back and healthy and then the random Trey Young who the hell knows game. And they have some size that could always be the Okongwu in a playing game with like 24 rebounds. I feel like Orlando is a cross off. Sorry, Saruti.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I mean, look at this. The Cavs are going to get Orlando, Miami or Chicago. Unless one of those teams beats Atlanta. But yeah, I think Atlanta is like, I'm not going to say they're frisky. But they're 32 and 34. I've watched them a lot. I have an overbet on them. And just in general, I kind of enjoy watching them. And I think they're not bad. You know, they're in the Western.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, the Hawks. Unfortunately, Jalen Johnson out for the year. But, you know, this is why you believe in Zach Riesesche. This is why I spent the number one pick on him. Let's take a break. And then we'll talk about OKC and Boston. This episode is brought to you by Audi. The all-new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
When you pick a player to score more than 30 points, this is a lot of fun. You can make a little more money, root for somebody to get 30. I tweet my picks. On Friday, there's some good games on Friday, including Clippers Atlanta, Memphis, Cleveland, Orlando, Minnesota. So we'll come up with a couple of good possibilities. And FanDuel, remember, is the home for all of your favorite prop bets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So whether you want to ride with my picks or make your own, just look for 30 on 30. and the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to FanDuel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday night. Don't forget, I'm going to tweet my pick. Make every moment more with FanDuel. You must be 21 plus. The president select states are 18 plus and president DC. Opt-in required.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Bonus issue is now in trouble. Profits boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at Sportsbook.FanDuel.com. Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. Hey, before we talk about OKC in Boston quickly, the bottom seven right now, Washington 13 wins, Utah 15, Charlotte 16, New Orleans 18.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
That's going to be our bottom four for capture the flag. Then we have Philly, 22 wins. Brooklyn, 22 wins. Toronto, 23 wins. Russillo's furious. Toronto's making a run at their season over out of nowhere, even though they were supposed to be tanking. So Philly right now is in the five spot. They keep their pick if it's in the top six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
He is based in Austin, Texas, where we saw each other after a depressing Spurs-Suns game with no Wemby and with the Suns team imploding. We have something really good that we're going to talk about later in the pod, this big picture idea that I'm excited to throw at the world. Short term, There's been some stuff going on as we hit these last 20 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And they're doing everything that they scratch Paul George for reasons that remain unclear for the season and beads out. And Philly's going for it. And I think if they get the five spot, it'd be pretty hard for them to get jumped twice. So in a weird way, this could work out for our guy, Daryl Morey. You went to Sloan Conference in Boston. Weirdest Sloan Conference ever?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
That would be... Really good draft. If you get in the top five in this draft, you're getting like a legit dude.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And so they have to do this. How crazy would that be after all the hype and buzz about them if they ended up with like a top three pick? I mean, honestly, that'd be insane. What were the odds? I guess the odds were actually half decent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
The Embiid thing's tough. We've been down this road with injured older centers and you're just kind of held hostage by it for a couple of years. And then somebody will write this story. Embiid's knee feels the best it's ever been. And Embiid, full scrimmage today. And then he plays two games, he gets hurt again. And it's just this cycle you don't want to be in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Washington, Utah, Charlotte, New Orleans. The shocker in that group is New Orleans. We knew somebody in the West was going to have the year from hell, and they were a really good candidate. But for them to be in the top four of the lottery is nuts with the kind of talent they have. I mean, honestly, it's crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So here are my OKC Celtics takes. And we might call my dad at the tail end because he went to the game after you go. But... First of all, OKC has beaten Boston twice and I watched both games and I thought they deserve to win both games. And I thought SJ was the best player in each game. There was no KP last night, but OKC didn't have Jalen Williams. So I'm not going to make excuses.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
The free throw advantage was way skewed toward OKC. I thought that was more a result of how both teams played and what they're trying to do. The Celtics took 63 threes, which is fucking absurd.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But the thing that has jumped out to me over and over again with OKC, they play so fucking hard and they're so physical and they're so good defensively and the switching that they do and they're just so committed to a certain level of intensity and competitiveness. It's going to sound like I'm making an excuse for the Celtics and I'm not. I think I've watched it over and over again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And I talked about this with Russillo two Sundays ago, that there's always a team right around now that starts making a surge like Dallas did last year, like the Celtics did a couple of years ago. And it's like, who, who's the team? We talked about possibilities kind of glossed over Minnesota. And Minnesota kicked Denver's ass last night. The three-point shooting has gotten way better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I think teams have a lot of trouble going through an NBA schedule and then you play OKC and they're playing like they play. And it's like you can see it like the guys and then the quotes after the game. Tatum said it. Jalen Brown said it. We didn't do a good job of matching their intensity. This is why this OKC team has been so special as a regular season team. They're fucking animals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
You watch them. It's like every guy in the team is completely beasting out, going crazy. They're just like... And if you're not ready for it, you can see it. And you can fight back. You can claw back. They do it again. And they just over and over again make these teams look bad from how hard they're playing. So my question to you is... It's a one-night thing that works.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Could you get used to it over two weeks if you're playing them in a series? Over the course of seven games, would you eventually figure out how to match what they're doing, at least competitively and physically?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Didn't matter. Didn't notice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
It was nine free throws when the game was being decided. So they weren't good in line at all. But they got three at the end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, not only are we going to talk about basketball, I'm going to fix basketball next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
They're 11-0 in the last 11 Randall games. Stuff's kind of happening, yet they're in the seventh seed. Golden State's 37-28. Minnesota's 38-29. Are you a believer yet? Easy schedule. Just a great matchup for them against Denver. Is something happening? What are you seeing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I was talking to, obviously, have a lot of Celtic fans in my life, some of whom don't watch a lot of OKC. And all the Celtic fans were so mad at SGA for like... the fucking foul baiting and all that stuff. And it's like, this is, he does this every game. He's the hardest guy in the league to guard like hands down. Uh, Russell and I talked about it the other day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And when we're talking about the MVP stuff with him or Yoko, she's having one of the best guard seasons in the history of the league. And I haven't seen a team figure out completely how to guard him yet. It seems like part of the strategy is try to throw bigger guys on him like the Celtics did with Brown. You'd think on paper, with Derek White and Drew Holiday, perfect guys to go against him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But he always gets the matchup he wants. He always gets the shot he wants. He's always either able to get to the rim, get a foul, or do a little pull-up. And I haven't seen anyone stop him yet. And if you're going to make the case for OKC to win the title. It's like they play harder than everybody else and nobody can stop their best guy. Seems like two pretty good things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But don't low scorers do this, though? The reason I still think Brunson's the best flop foul baiter guy is he's also doing it off the ball. He's doing it when he's on defense. He's just flopping around like a marlin. SGA is just purely trying to get to the free throw line. He's like, whatever trick I can do to get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I thought you were going to say Scoot Henderson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
My guy is back. Scoot Henderson. Marcelo and I are alive. I'm so excited. He was unbelievable. He looked like fucking 2010 Russell Westbrook yesterday. I was going nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Listen, that game played the hits for things that are going to drive Celtic fans crazy. Tyler Ford as the ref. I think there's a lot of he-doesn't-like-us stuff. The free throw advantage spoke for itself. SGA is super frustrating. And then Jalen had his worst game in a couple of years, you know, and you can't survive no KP and a horrible Jalen game like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
If you're on positives for the Celts, Tatum was awesome again. I mean, I just feel like he's gone up. We're still, and I, we talked a couple of weeks ago about, I still feel like it's in play that he could make, go to that last level. Marcelo thought I was being a little too optimistic on it. I think he's at least going up a half level. And I think there's an intensity and competitiveness to that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I just don't feel like was totally there. That physicality that is just at another level. They're also, Maz is putting a bunch of minutes on him, which I like and don't like, but like he played 45 against the Lakers and I think 42 last night and he wants to be out there. And I think that's the best thing the Celtics have going for them right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, there's definitely hungrier candidates and hunger becomes such a big part of this as the season goes along. I it's funny, like I'll get texts from people sometimes or I'll hear it on a show or a podcast and We have to do this thing now about OKC's not getting enough credit. When will people start talking about OKC? First of all, I think people are talking about them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And we did this on Sunday. I'm at the point with this where if you're not taking OKC and Cleveland seriously as the two best teams in the league that have the two best chances to win the title, I just feel like you're not watching the season. They're passing. Cleveland's had two 15 game winning streaks. I don't know what else they have to show us. That team is awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And Mitchell is having a great year. And if like they play OKC in a series, he'll think he's as good as SGA. Like to me, they check all the boxes and OKC now that Chet's back. That was when we're talking to my dad, I think later. But my dad came away like he hadn't really seen a great check game in person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
chet's been a fucking beast since he came back you know and i just think they can go small and big i think okc is awesome i think beating them in a series is going to be really really really hard especially with their good home team too they get a good crowd it's a weird place to play their fans are like really rabid they affect the game they affect the refs and uh I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
They're the favorite on FanDuel for a reason. They have the best team. And they have a guy who can score on every team in the league whenever he wants. That matters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And that place is insane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
It hurts your head. That was my takeaway in the 2012 finals. I actually had a headache after the home games. I was like, this is too loud. My head hurts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
The Spurs were one of the... Dude, I wrote the... I wrote the Grantland piece after the Spurs killed... somebody about how this had a chance to be like a generational team. And I think, okay, see, swept them after I wrote the piece, like they just like destroyed them. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, especially when you have, you're putting young and hungry guys in there. Yeah. And you know, look, you look at the game yesterday and you go back and watch the fourth quarter, which I did this morning, the Celts missed wide open shots. a bunch of them in the fourth quarter, whereas OKC actually made some shots.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And the big guy you have written behind you, I think because you want to remind yourself to talk about him, was Wallace. Wallace made the two dagger shots of the game. And Wallace was awesome. And Wallace is one of those guys, like I do the trade value list. I was like, where does this guy go? Because there's no way they're trading him. What's he worth? If somebody's like, yeah, we'll do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
in march well what are you saying that's what's he doing differently because in the in the first part of the year it looked like a bad spacing fit it looked like a weird who's who should take the shot this time and it just it just seemed off so what changed i think he's playing he knows his teammates better and he's making better passes like at his best he's a scorer who can also pass and i think during this stretch i haven't looked it up i think he's leading the team in assists so yeah
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
We'll give you this awesome player. Give us back Wallace and some picks. Presti's going to go, no, thanks. You know what I mean? I'm actually going to keep Wallace. Thank you, though. Thanks for your interest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
By the way, 21 years old. Born on November 2003. Two years in, they have him at least for two more. you know, I SGA, I'm sure we'll work with them a tiny bit for salary stuff, but they're going to have to pay Chet and they're going to have to pay Wallace and they're going to have to play Jalen Williams on top of SGA. That's going to be really hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, the other thing is, OKC has way better variables than the Celtics do. If you're telling me I'm getting everybody for four rounds with the Celtics, I feel great. But I have Horford, who's I think 39, who's still playing 28 minutes a game and they're still counting on him in a real way. I have Drew Holiday, who's 34, who's got a fucked up hand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I have Porzingis who I just have no idea when he's playing and when he's not playing at this point. And it's like a pleasure to see him, but I don't trust that he's going to be out there a hundred percent of the time. I have Pritchard who's hit or miss depending on the game and the matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Whereas like I look at OKC and it's like, it would really have something weird would have to happen for any of those guys to get hurt. They're all young. They're all, you know, same thing for Cleveland. Yeah. It's a mostly young team that's, you know, you'd have like Darius Garland got hurt last year because he broke his jaw. Somebody hit him in the head.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But I just think the durability and consistency of those young guys, when you combine the hunger piece of it, it's going to be a challenge for the Celtics. This is going to be a way different journey for them this year. Like even right now, they're 2-7. They'll play the Hawks. Let's say the Hawks are the seventh seed. They'll beat the Hawks. That's not going to be like the most fun series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Like the Hawks are, you know, they're not going to roll over. Then they'll have the Knicks or Detroit in round two. That's not going to be easy. And then they play Cleveland or Milwaukee probably. And that's before we get to the finals. And I need all my guys to stay healthy the whole time. Like it's, it's just gonna be way harder.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And they won last year, which you can't sleep on. Like it's so much harder to do it the second time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So I watched the entire Knicks Portland game last night as my wife and I also watched Paradise. So I had it on the iPad, watched going back, kind of back. Paradise is the perfect show you can watch while you're also doing something else. The Knicks have had, they pulled out some of these, some of these late ones. And I kind of think they needed that game last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I thought Bridges really needed it. Bridges was threatening and just become like this appendage. And I thought that was a really big game for them. Towns hit a couple of huge threes down the stretch in the fourth quarter. But I actually think these this Brunson injury, which you never want anybody to get hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But I think it's a it's a weirdly OK thing for them because now they have to use this different muscle. I thought they were way too reliant on him. And now it's like, hey, guys, Mikael Bridges is a good offensive player. Maybe you should give him the ball every once in a while. Hey, Towns is a good matchup for the last two minutes of a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So I think they're going to figure some things out about the supporting cast that's going to help him when he comes back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I look at this constantly and they're the one outlier where you're like, why is this team there? It's because they have, you know...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
He's turning into 2016 Klay Thompson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
When they rebound, the rebounding is the other thing. They get second chances. They control the boards. They have size and they're nasty. It's like a nasty team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I like that every guy in the Pistons is ready to get in a fight. Talked about it before, but I just, I love their attitude on everything. And by the way, they have a realistic chance to get the four seed. So we're taping this Thursday morning. Milwaukee's 36 and 28. Indiana's 36 and 28. Detroit's 37 and 29. Yes. And playing better net rating wise. Name a stat from the last 25 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I'm going to look it up right now as we're talking. Just last 25. This is nuts. I have all these bookmarks for the net ratings. And I have like 15, 25, and 20. Detroit, 69 in the last 25. And their sixth offensive rating. They have the second best D, as you mentioned. Like that's a, that's not a small sample size. 25 games is fucking, that's almost two, two months. It's like seven weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Wow. It's beyond the breakout. Would you vote for him for most improved? Most improved.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I'll give you them right now. Do you have a vote? I can't remember. No, I do not have a vote. I have a vote, so I'm not allowed to bet on this. I always want to mention that. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Oh, he's the favorite. Minus 270. Is Mobley in there? Dyson Daniels is plus 220. Mobley is 100 to 1. Now, I will get... The crazy one is Pritchard as the favorite for six man at minus 240.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Malik Beasley's plus 300, which tells me nobody's watching the Pistons. Cause I would have thought Beasley should be the favorite at this point with how important he is. And he's like their, you know, their number two crunch time guy. And I tied Jerome is down to 25 to one. It used to be 55 to one. I think he's in there too. And then I guess Nas at 25 to one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I, I don't really think of him as a bench guy because it feels like he starts so much and there's always somebody hurt, but. He's in there too. Who would you have? Would you go Beasley?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Oh, for improved, you'd go Cade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, you know what? The thing with Beasley that I noticed at the end of games when they're coming out of timeouts and the other team knows they're probably going to run a play with him coming around on a three. And they're like treating him like he's Clay Thompson, 2016. This is not, this is now like, Oh, this is a nice story. We've we're well beyond that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Teams are treating him like he's a real guy. Cause he's been a real guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
There's just no good stats with Milwaukee. Like, last 25, they're 12th. Right? Mm-hmm. Last 20... their 16th. And then you go, if we do, yeah, well, last 15, same thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Oh, nine. That's not bad for last 15. So there's signs of life, I guess. Um, but last, but Detroit's played better for them for seven weeks is I guess the, uh, the big point. Um, Let's take one more break and then let's do our thing. I'm really excited for this. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So when I was in Austin, Texas last month for a live show, we went to your sports business class at the University of Texas in Austin, had a bunch of really smart people who had been working for a while on a big project. So you explain what the project was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Especially the live betting and the, yeah, all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So right now the season is 82 games. It starts on October 22nd this year. It ended on April 13th. It's 24 weeks, 82 games. The play-in is the mid-April. First three rounds of the playoffs this year starts April 19th, ends June 2nd. So it's seven plus weeks for those three rounds. And the final starts June 5th and ends June 22nd. And your students decided what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So two things with that. They're launching the season October 22nd. They're going against the World Series. They're going against the NFL season has really kicked into gear. All the teams are starting to play better. It's like the height of college football.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Oh, yeah. Every four years, a presidential election is coming. And they're just popping right in the middle of that. And people are like, cool, thanks. The way they have it structured now, they're basically going against the NFL for the first 11 weeks of the NBA season. So it's like 45% of the season. They're just going head to head against the NFL. Now the playoffs, there's less games eventually.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
They have the, I talked about how stupid this was a couple weeks ago. NFL ends, Super Bowl ends. The NBA's already done their trade deadline, so they lose that whole bump from whenever that happens. And then they go right to the all-star break. And what happens during the all-star break? There's no basketball and everybody's complaining about how bad all-star weekend is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So that's, that's your first arrival. And then what always happens is we hit the end of February and there's good basketball games and people are like, whoa, the NBA has got really good. It's like, no, the NBA was really good. Actually. You just, you, you were concentrated on the football. So I was like in 45 days seemed like a lot to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And I did all these different, I sketched it out a bunch of different ways. And I think 45 days is around the right number. So the first thing I did was 42. So if you move everything 42 days, that's six weeks, right? That starts the season on December 3rd, the week after Thanksgiving. At least that's what would have happened this year. You start December 3rd, 24 weeks, ends May 25th.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, it's interesting because in this run, they're 16-9 in their last 25, basically. I think 16-8 last 24. So the record's better. The schedule's been pretty easy, but they did go 2-1 against OKC and they beat Denver twice, which I think are good signs, especially now that the Lakers don't have a center. Maybe those are the two teams they have to look at. I was studying it today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Play in May 27th to May 30th. First three rounds, May 31st ends July 21st. And then the finals go July 24th ends August 10th. That seems too late to me. I love second. To me, the goal should be, how do we get away from football as much as possible? How do we take advantage of all of June instead of having the finals end on like June 18th, June 19th? Why are we throwing away June?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And then could July really work for us? And I think we both agree it could. And your students, I mean, talk about the case they made for July.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, I don't think this shit matters anymore. The whole model of, like... TV goes from September to May and we have three networks and we release stuff and we have sweeps and like it's fucking out. Shows can hit any time of the year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, so there's two big things. One, the number of weeks you could just get away from football is just 100% positive. That's it. Like you're not equal to football. You're not going to be. It's a way bigger audience. You don't have the gambling fantasy stuff that football has. You don't have the ability for everybody to mobilize around Sundays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And football is getting better and better at doing their own schedule. They're better at, oh, here's a Friday game. Oh, now we're going to have two Christmas games. Oh, now we're going to tackle Saturdays. Like football is just going to get better and better at killing the NBA during these first two months. So the more you can get away from that, the better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And then I just feel like for the NBA, April, May, June, July should be the peak months and all of July. So one of the things I was looking at If you moved everything 42 days, but you had a 76 game regular season. So everybody loses three home games, three away games. Sorry, you guys just signed a $76 billion deal. You'll be fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
That would start the season on December 3rd, but ended on May 11th, 22 weeks, 76 games. Play in May 13th to May 16th. First three rounds, May 17th to July 7th. Now we're talking. Finals, July 10th to July 27th. And now all we've done is we've targeted basically post-NFL draft our three best months of the season we don't have to worry about the NFL at all. It's out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And the only thing we'd have to worry about is like the freaking Olympics. But I don't think the NBA players should send our guys to the Olympics anyway. So we're fine. Um, with that. So I've asked NBA people about this in the past and they said the biggest reason they wouldn't move it is because of the summer schedule, because we need our summers. It's the two months off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I test wise, I didn't really notice it until the last week. Um, just that they seem happier playing together. I thought last night they looked like last year's Timberwolves was, was noticeable. They might feel like they have Denver's number, but looking at all the numbers, um, The three-point shooting is way better, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Our kids are home from school, whatever. Counter. You'd still have August. During July, you're working anyway with the Vegas Summer League. That's become like almost a two-week event. I would get rid of Vegas Summer League completely and use that so that we're done July 27th. The draft is July 31st. Tone down Summer League. Don't make it this huge thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And then you basically get August and September and half of October off before we get the preseason. That makes way more sense to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, if you're being smart about this, everything moving later also means the trade deadline is after the NFL season. Your all-star break, an all-star game, if you have one, now that's moving to mid-March, maybe even during March Madness. Maybe you just don't have an all-star game anymore and you just have all-star break is March Madness. I still love Chris Ryan's idea of having
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
all-star break actually just be bi-weeks with 10 team bi-weeks, three weeks in a row, or each set of 10 teams gets one week off. And I would get rid of the all-star game. I don't think it works that they want to have some sort of big corporate event, make that the NBA cup whenever you have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But the big thing to me that we know we're right is because some of the stuff that they're already doing, is a reaction to the fact that football is just killing them, right? Yeah. Moving the TNT Barkley show from Thursdays to Tuesdays during the NFL season is a direct concession that you're getting destroyed on Thursday nights. Right. Just period.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So Nas in his last 25, he's 41% from three and he's 18 and seven and he's having a really nice free agent run. We talked about him on the Worst Contracts pod talking about how all these moves they've made, especially the Gobert extension, might have screwed them to keep Nas. And then Timberwolves fans are like, we're keeping Nas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Doing this NBA Cup thing is a direct concession that nobody gives a shit about the NBA in late October, November, and December. And you need to do something to be like, hey, we're over here. They just need to move it. And here's the other thing, Kurt Goldsberry. We know expansion's coming, 32 teams. If there's ever a time to go to a 69-game schedule, it's when they do these expansion teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Because 32 games, you play the other 31 teams twice. You have four 18 divisions. So you play everybody twice and you play everyone in your division one more time and it's 69 games total. All right, so let's start the season December 10th. Let's end it May 4th. Let's play a 20 week season. Let's start the play in May 6th and May 9th. Let's play the first three rounds, May 10th to June 30th.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And let's start the finals July 3rd and on July 20th with a 69 game schedule. There's no fucking way you can tell me that's not going to be better for the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
addition to the calendar uh and i think you're right i think we could survive in july i don't know about summer league in august that's that's a tricky part there will be people who are annoyed you just have it for the don't make it as big of a thing as it was and just make it like i thought the if you're going to do a counter on this the hardest thing to figure out is the college season ends kids graduate but you wouldn't be able to have the draft until july and end of july
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Please check out the Prestige TV podcast. We are doing double episodes. Every week about White Lotus. I'm on one of them on Sunday nights, the recap pod. And then Joanna and Rob midweek doing that as well. Plus we're covering Severance. I think it's the final week of that too. New rewatchables coming on Monday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So none of those kids would know where they're playing, who they're working out for, for an extra six weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Maybe you have the draft between the regular season and playoffs. I don't know. But that's the only part I couldn't figure out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I think that's fine. Right. Those kids are all working out on themselves. All right. Screw the rookies. So just I'm going to go through this one more time. 69 game regular season once we have 32 teams starts December 10th, ends May 4th. We could even say we'll give everyone next week. We'll start May 11th. But let's say May 4th. The playoffs are done first three rounds on June 30th.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Finals goes July 3rd, right before July 4th, which would be cool through July 20th. And we're done on July 20th. So we basically, if you shorten the season and then move it and it's a month longer, and now I'm concentrating all my best stuff in May, June, July, that's how you win. And this is how they have to think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And if they don't start thinking this way, I'm going to really start thinking that they need the leadership at the top. I know they got this giant media deal, but these are easy fixes that they should do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And it's like, well, you made this Carl Anthony Towns trade to save money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And I think that it's not a rumor anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Which leads me to believe you're not keeping Nas, especially if you have this new ownership. But who knows? He's playing 33 minutes a game and he's been great. Conley in his last 17 is shooting 48% from three. And he looked like dead legs washed up the first six weeks of the season, right? That surprised me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, one of the cool things that your students did, I mean, there's all this anecdotal evidence we have anyway that football is just destroying everyone else and that it's an absolute monster. But then the college football piece, not just NFL, where college football really crests from the end of August Mid-November, probably. And then we start getting it. So it's probably mid-November range.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So you're going against two monoliths every weekend, right? I just don't know why you would do that if you don't have to. The only thing, my big takeaway is, and I didn't really think about it until I was in your class, It makes zero sense to start on October 22nd, October 23rd, anywhere in October. It's fucking stupid. They shouldn't do it anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And if they want to move it to mid-November, even that makes more sense. But first week of December makes the most sense. And they just have to start thinking that way. And I really think if you're just trying to get basketball NBA nirvana for how a season should go, it should be 69 games. It should start in December and it should end in July. And they're going to win if they do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Hey, I have a question. How much fucking revenue do you need? we're going to have guys making $75 billion a year. Like how much is, how much is enough? You just signed a $76 billion deal. Like do what's best for the sport, try to grow the sport. And this is the best way to do it. You mentioned the alternative league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So it's, it's being pushed by Maverick Carter, who's LeBron, one of his business guys. And when I heard about it, I just thought it was bullshit because I didn't think it was real because initially everyone thought those guys were getting the Vegas team. And then I think it's wide open. I don't think they have any inside track at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
more than anything I didn't think they were going to get anything out of him anymore and it seemed like he wasn't going to be able to play a crunch time for them and then DiVincenzo is the other one since Christmas he's missed some games but 16 points a game 47% from three and he's playing 29 minutes a game so you say how they don't have a second score and you're right but they've been able to patch it like Nas will have a big game
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And in fact, there's other groups that I would bet on before them. And I thought this was a ploy by them to pretend they're doing raising Saudi money and blah, blah, blah. And ultimately, all right, we'll drop it if we get the Vegas team. That's not the case. They have got a shitload of money for this and a plan. And everything I've heard, is that it's kind of real.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I don't know if they have all the money yet, but they have enough that could you form a six-team league and convince five, six, seven stars to basically jump when their contracts... I think the contracts would have to be over, but I look at Luka. He's down in 26. Like that's somebody like, all right, if he's, could this be a live situation? What does he carry? Does that mean loyalty to the NBA?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
He just got traded. So like, could you pay, could you build a league and have like six, seven Luca type guys? Hey, Luca, here's a hundred million dollars a year. You're playing a 35 game season and, uh, and you're going to be the face of one of the faces of this league. Like, I think it's real. And I think the NBA owners are a little more worried about it than I think has been reported so far.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And it's also that we're in a world right now where rich people throw money at sports stuff. It's just a fact. We're in a world now where the Saudis and everybody on that side of the world is pumping incredible amounts of money into UFC and the WWE and boxing. They've completely transformed boxing. To think that they couldn't decide to just do that with basketball is nuts. It's not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
You mentioned that it's a global game. They also have players that I think unlike with some of the golfers, You have players that have huge social media footprints. that if they switched leagues or went or did something else, they'd actually be able to promote themselves, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And it's like, I remember when, uh, when my contract was almost up with ESPN and it seemed like people thought I was going to leave and they were writing about it. It's like, well, you can't leave ESPN, can't leave the machine. It's like, guess what? And then all of these people over the next 10 years, including myself, were able to leave and start stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And it's like, you don't need the fucking machine. I don't think the basketball players need the machine. I think if they were part of another league, I think I think people would pay attention to it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Dante have a big game. Randall might have like, it feels like they're all rotating. Who's the second guy. Um, and they're pretty good. I'm surprised Dillingham isn't having a bigger impact for them, but maybe they don't need them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Jason Gallagher's kid. Just repeated mentions on the pod. You're right, though. They're just going to follow. They'll follow him there. And guess what? They'll probably follow him, too, when he's playing for the Singapore Giants. That's what soccer's taught us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, I'll tell you this. The NBA has to start taking all this shit seriously. They're throwing away the first two months of the season every year. The season's too long. Nobody likes it. The players don't like it. There's all these solutions that they're unwilling to explore. They're going to add two teams and somehow keep an 82 game schedule, which is fucking stupid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And they have all this money that they already got. that allows them now the luxury to rethink this whole system. And that's how they should be thinking. And if they're not thinking that way, they need new people to run the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, you'd also have a situation like Philly is now punted on their season. You don't have to watch the zombie Sixers for the next two months, not give a shit. Like, all right, we're, we're out way sooner, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
and try to get better at stuff. And that this is going to require real vision. And it's not just like, we've come up with the NBA cup. We've added a new event to all-star weekend on Saturday. It's like, we're not talking about that. Like you have a chance to actually fix it. All right. Kurt Goldsberry was fun to sit in your class. Shout out to your students. That was a great presentation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Uh, I will see you soon. Sad. Everybody in Austin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
All right, my dad is here complaining to me all during the OKC Celtic game. It's been a tumultuous year for him. He just adopted a new puppy. Lost, sadly lost Sally a couple months ago. You thought you were going to be a one dog family. And then all of a sudden you're telling me you're getting a puppy. Ruby is the name.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And now you're up with a puppy that's peeing on pads and scratching and biting you. And was it worth it? I guess is my question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
All right, good, congratulations. So you went to the Celtic game last night and you hadn't seen this version of OKC in person. What was your in-person takeaway of the Thunder?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I should mention my dad's not a Tyler Ford guy. Not at all. If you see Tyler Ford doing a Celtic game, just know my dad's upset immediately.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah. See all the Celtic fans were saying this, but we shot 63 threes. So at that point, you're probably not going to get a shitload of free throws. You know, I, you weren't going to the basket enough. I also think Kirk and I talked about the game a little bit, but I left some stuff for you. I thought Dort was like the worst possible guy to guard Jalen. I thought Jalen could not solve him at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
He's just strong. He's smaller and he just couldn't figure him out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So this is 51 or 52 years season tickets for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
How many guards have you seen in person that were better than SGA? Oh, I mean, Jordan, obviously. Yeah. Would you, would you put him on like the, like second highest level, highest level? Like he's unstoppable. Um, and we were throwing everybody at him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Oh, yeah. I don't know if you got a vote this year, but I'm going to pass it along anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
No, you don't get a vote. The SGA, the inability for us to control him reminded me of Andrew Toney a million years ago. I was thinking of some of the other, because I remember we went to that finals game in 08. when they beat the Lakers that year. But Kobe, there was that game too when the Lakers started coming back. And Kobe all of a sudden was unstoppable for like two minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I'm sorry he's going to be on New Orleans next year, but you guys are right. Or Washington, wherever he's going to go. Somebody with calf space. Brooklyn? Who knows? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And there's the crowd, you can feel the energy kind of die because you're going, oh my God, what do we do? SGA is a little bit like that. Like I was thinking about a series against him And you'd think like with Holiday and Derek White and then some size with Brown and Tatum, this is the right kind of team to stop him. But I'm not sure anyone's stopping him this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Right. No Porzingis? Are you going there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, but the problem is, and you and I talk about this constantly, Porzingis has hit the point where It's exciting to have him. You notice when he's in the game and he just hasn't played enough and there's this reason, that reason, another reason. And now I'm at the point where you think about having to get through the Knicks and Cleveland and OKC potentially.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I don't think they can win all three of those rounds without Porzingis. And I have no idea if he's going to be available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Right. I don't get it. You've gone to a lot of these games. What's up with the, why aren't they better at home this year? What is it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I mean, the thing is, if I showed you, if you didn't even watch the game and I just showed you the stat sheet and it was like, we shot 63 threes and 12 free throws, we lost. That's a guaranteed loss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Can you give us your, your Tatum? You've watched every season of Tatum's career you've been going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I feel like he's gone up half a level. I thought he was awesome in the Laker game. I thought he was really good last night. It certainly wasn't the reason they lost. And in general feels like he's gone up a notch. So what are you seeing in person?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I like when he goes to the basket, but then pulls up and takes that 15-footer. I feel like that's unstoppable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, I didn't enjoy watching it on TV. I mean, the biggest thing that shifted this year is we left last season, Tatum and Brown were kind of 1A, 1B. Yeah. And Tatum has really... Jalen has had some good stretches and some bad stretches, but Tatum... the amount of stuff that he's doing game to game on both sides is he's also the best rebounder on the team. He defends everybody on the other team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
He runs the offense. I think he's having an awesome season. Like to me, he's clearly the number three MVP and there's, there's some Giannis people are like, well, Giannis is 30 and 12 and six, but I just think the Celtics are more successful and Tatum has as big of a burden. And he's also running the offense. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's why I don't think Pritchard, he's favored to win six man, but I've just seen too many games where I don't think he's impactful enough. Whereas like Cleveland, that Ty Jerome will come in and he'll just swing the game when he comes in. There's games where Pritchard doesn't do that. But I also think the amount of money they're paying for
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
the top six guys in this team, it's really hard to have a bench. You know, like it's just, it's just hard to find that ninth, 10th, 11th guy when you're shelling out the amount of money that they're paying. So it makes sense. But I agree. I thought OKC just seemed so much deeper last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Trying to put miles on Tatum, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
By the way, we did that to the Lakers on Saturday. That was one of the big reasons they were making Luka and LeBron really work just to bring the ball up, which I don't understand why more teams don't do against them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Sounds like he's won you over. It sounds like the Randall fan club might have to make room for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So would you have us, you've said you saw a Boston Cleveland game in person too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Would you have us third with those three right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
What's the Patriots fever right now with the free agents and the number four pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah. It's tough. It's tough when the case for somebody is he has two arms, two legs and a head and he plays left tackle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I think it's a wrap. There's some bad stats with him about getting open year by year the last five years, where last year he just doesn't get open anymore. We don't need another guy who can't get open. We already have five guys who can't get open. Here's where I've talked myself into.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Um, well, first of all, I'm, I'm, I'm praying the giants take Sanders cause they don't have a quarterback and it seems like Rogers might go to Pittsburgh and they haven't done anything else. So it's like, please take Sanders. I'm, I am all in. I'm planting my flag in this cause they don't need a Graham cause they beefed up the defensive line. I'm all in on Travis Hunter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I'm all in on taking him at receiver at four. And then maybe in the dime packages, he comes in and play some D back, but just can, can you turn him into a top five receiver? I think you could. That's your number one receiver. You also have the flexibility. Maybe he can play on the other side of the ball a little bit. It's just like, he's, it just seems like he's a short thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I want a sure thing at the number four. I want like a blue chipper who would be a $35 million player a year someday. That's what I want.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
If you don't get one of those two, trade back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I do love the Drake May-Hunter idea. It would be super fun. But I think this has been a really fun draft to follow, especially like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
we just need two teams to take a quarterback ahead of us and then it shoves the guys down and you're just watching the giants not get anyone not make the stafford trade not get a free agent i'm feeling i'm feeling optimistic that you know what happens in these drafts teams get really anxious i don't have a quarterback
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I can't wait. It's going to be the most exciting draft we've had in a while because to pick this high and potentially have it work out. Marshan, can we talk Marshan for a second?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
That was the worst part for me was Florida just, come on. Out of all the teams, that's who you're going to trade them to?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And he's a legend. He's going to retire as a Hall of Famer, all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well... They also have this weird bench because Shannon had a couple of really good games for them. Like when they beat OKC by three last month, end of February, Shannon played 29 minutes in that game. Alexander Walker played 35. McDaniels played 42. Nas played 40. They didn't have Gobert.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But it's the Danny Ainge thing, right? Where Danny Ainge used to say, if I was running the Celtics in the late 80s, I would have traded Bird and McHale and started over. You can't be loyal to the memories. He traded Kevin Garnett in 2013. It's like the best thing for the team is to make the move. But I don't know. You get like a late pick in the first round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
It's not like this is making or breaking your future.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
It's a conditional second that can turn into a first. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
All right. I know he took this one hard. He did take this one hard. Uh, there's nobody left. I mean, who's like, who's going to be the, well, pastor next to your number one Jersey in the stands now, but other than that, nobody left from 2000, early 2010s, that whole run. Right. No, the,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, it's a whole generation now that they won the cup the month I started Grantland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
That's a million years ago. You have like 20-year-old kids now that barely remember it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Right. That's how, yeah, I forgot. That's how you measure dog years or living dogs. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Uh, cause they have that. And then the other thing is the Celtics sale that somebody today, did you see it? There's four left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And the bids are, the final bids are coming in Friday. There was five and Lori dropped out. The Eagles owner, I think pretty soon after the Super Bowl was out, they thought there was going to be five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So that's one of the things about, well, one of the things is nobody knows the composition of all the groups. So you have all these minority partners who are going to throw money, but nobody knows what side they picked with the four left and who's on whose team. So it's, it's a lot of, but tying to the Bruins, I think part of the play would be you'd build a new arena
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And so you're paying for the team, but then you also know, like in the 2030s, there's going to be some sort of basketball arena that you build that's like what the Clippers did. So it's really, you're like 10 billion all in. So you need like capital behind that. But for the Bruins, it's not great because they're going to be stuck in this other building. They'll be the only tenant in seven years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And then the team hasn't been, you know, it's definitely arrow pointing down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Isn't that crazy? Remember driving by the garden and just seeing the carcass of half of a stadium for that whole winter in 94?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
They didn't have Randall, but they, they're able to, the nine through 11 guys, which is something I think Cleveland has. Yeah. I think the Celtics have to some degree. And OKC has 20 guys. It literally doesn't matter on OKC. They could be like, oh, Jalen Williams isn't playing. Fine. We got three more guys. We could just slot in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah. No, I think the Lakers are in the same boat. The Staples was built, I think, in like 99 or 2000. It's quote unquote state of the art, but it's really not. It sucks. And now they're in this, what do you do? And you have the Clippers who have this incredible arena. So I know that's going to be a piece of the Celtics purchase. You have to think arena.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I mean- There's one part. If you go back and you read, remember when we were going to have the Olympics in Boston before it got shut down? They had a whole plan for where it was going to be. And one of the big locations was going to be on 93 past where Emerson is going toward Quincy and the Cape. And there's this whole section. Yeah. And I think that's where the arena would go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I think that's the location. And I think it's open. So whatever, it'll definitely, something's definitely going to happen over the next 10 years. But the big thing for me with the Celtics sale is like, Pag Luca is one of the four guys left. He's the number two owner right now. He's the one that if he gets it, you have the stability, you keep the organization intact. If the other three guys...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Any of those guys get it. Who knows? They just come in like, here are my ideas. I'm bringing in my own guys. And you could have just complete dysfunction.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Well, they all want to do their one thing, and then you end up in the Luka Doncic situation where you have the new Dallas owners. They're like, yeah, let's trade them. We get Anthony Davis and a pick, Max Christie. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Um, the tax bill is pretty crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah. I think like some of it will depend on what happens in the playoffs, but yeah, I'm, I'm prepared as a fan. I'm prepared. And you are too. Like, I don't know what's going to happen. You're going to have this new owner group paying six plus billion dollars, uh, the team, let's say they don't win the title. And then they're looking at a tax bill of $200 million on top of what they just paid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I'm just going to tell you what it is right now. Days of Thunder with Tom Cruise. It's officially sports movie month. Tom Cruise, 16th rewatchables movie for him. Congrats to him. just setting all kinds of records. Great guy. Uh, so you got that coming up. You can watch that on the ringer movies, YouTube channel, or you can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And it's like, all right, first move. I've decided to do this. God only knows what that's going to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Oh, really?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But I do like their depth and they have a little more depth, Minnesota, than I was thinking. It also seems like they're getting a little more than McDaniels was starting to look like a possible worst contracts guy. But he got going too. And then, you know, the big thing for me when you're thinking about the late surgers is do you have like one of the best nine guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, I might have some extra. So they jacked it like 10%?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
So now it's like, what is it now? Like $400 a ticket? No, not that high. Is it up there? We can talk after. Jesus. They flex the tickets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
If Philly comes in again, they could probably tank those tickets and knock them down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah. It's funny, like, when you had... We used to go to the games in the 70s, and it was all blue-collar. All, like, just... the most normal people possible. And then the eighties, we just started watching them go away one at a time. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And I remember the guy, the guy with the hat, with the mustache, like that guy who's, and all of a sudden he was gone and just, and it just, and then by the time we got to the fleet center, it was just completely different.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But you're like, I think you're like in the top six of longest runs now or top five. Yeah, I should be. I think. Should honor you at halftime or something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Right, right, right. It sounded like it should be straight through.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Right. We had that in the episode two of Celtic City. They mentioned how the Lakers trying to win their first title in Los Angeles. And, you know, they're not counting the Minnesota titles at all. And then in the 80s, all of a sudden they're like, yeah, and those five titles we won in Minnesota. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I'm sure if OKC wins the title this year, they're not going to be like, it's our second title following the one we won in Seattle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Do you have one of the best eight guys? Do you have one of the best six guys? Edwards is somewhere in the 10. You know, you could have him, you could have him eight, you could have nine, wherever. But during this little 24 game stretch where they're 16 and eight, he's 29 a game, 8.9 free throw attempts and 10.4 threes. And I mentioned that because I felt like the threes were too high before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
I'll tell you, the Luka thing is maddening because they love Luka. And the energy at the home games is completely different already. And this is like LeBron, like obviously one of the most popular NBA players of this century and one of the most famous and one of the best. But he's been on all these other teams and...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
it's always year to year with him and he's a Laker, but it's, it's a little more of a hired gun. They look at Luca and they're like, this guy's 25. Like this guy might be in our life for the next 15 years. Like you can just feel the energy shift.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
No, that's it. That's the door gets slammed. That's not happening. Don't worry. Don't ever worry about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
All right. Good to see you. Congrats on your dramatic debut in episode three, Celtic city.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Yeah, probably not. I don't think you need to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
All right. All right. Good to see you. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kirk and my dad. Thanks to Kyle and Sarita and Gahal as well. Don't forget new rewatchables coming Monday, prestige TV, Sunday night, white Lotus recap, and you can get all this as video podcast on Spotify, which is what you should do. I will see you on Sunday with Priscilla. Have a great weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And I want, I, I ultimately like in the playoffs, I think the free throws have to be next to the threes. I want like in a playoff series, I want 10 and 10 from him, something like that. But, um, you know, he has some stinkers every once in a while. He'll have like the six for 19. He'll have the seven for 29.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But for the most part, like I'm kind of happy where he's at in this season after the season, where are you at with him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Just like you can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify. Uh, we're also brought to you by fan dual sports book, where I hope you're checking out the 30 on 30, which we do every Friday. I tweet out my pick, try to get 30 plus score, a little boost. So stay tuned for that. All right, coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
It's a great point. OKC, 68 in their last 24, including four losses of either one or two points. Fifth net rating. And they play OKC really well too, which we should mention. Denver, they're built to beat Denver. And they have all these athletic wings to throw at Murray. And they have size to throw. Not as much size as they had last year with Towns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
But they still have a bunch of size to throw at Jokic. And it's just a good matchup for them. Doesn't mean they'll beat them in the playoffs, but it's a nice matchup. OKC was interesting because when they played those games, and I thought those games were really fun to watch. There was a competitiveness, fuck you, athleticism piece that you rarely... Physicality, you saw it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
We're going to talk about OKC Boston in a second. OKC, even though I think the myth on them is they're undersized when they're really not anymore, or they're skinny... they're really physical. And I thought, I think Minnesota likes it and they like playing it. And I thought those games, I thought that was a good sign for them that they hung with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
They also have a lot of guys to throw at SGA who nobody has shut down all year, but they probably have the best chance. And they have a guy on their team who's not afraid of any of them. You mentioned the matchups. So we're taping this in the morning on Thursday and Golden State and Minnesota are basically fighting for the sixth seed. Golden State has 37 wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Minnesota has 38, but Minnesota's played more games. And there's a world where Minnesota gets six and Denver gets three. And that's our 3-6. And Denver's like, fucking A. God damn it. Why is that our team? Just the matchups in general, like, Golden State, I'm sure, doesn't want to see Denver at all because Yoka Jones them. Minnesota would be delighted to see Denver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
You just go through and it's like what you said. It becomes a little rock, paper, scissory. I was waiting for Houston to drop out But Houston's kind of hung on here. Houston still has a three-loss lead over Golden State and a four-loss lead over Minnesota, and they're the five seed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
And then the Lakers, who we don't know how long LeBron's going to be out, that's another team that could potentially drop, but they'd have to drop a lot down the stretch. So a lot of shit going on, but we could end up, listen to this, Goldsberry, we could have Minnesota-Denver as a 3-6. We could have Golden State-Memphis as a 2-7. And we could have Lakers-Houston as the 4-5 with M.A.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Adoka and Dylan Brooks against LeBron. The two guys who have really gone at him in the last two years. That'd be super fun. And then the other one that's in play is the 1-8 with OKC and the Clippers. You know, the Clippers trade SGA to OKC. OKC has their pick this year, and there's just all this history between those teams. So that would be the most fun version, I think, of the four matchups.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad
Kirk Goldsberry and I are going to talk about some things we've noticed as we head into the home stretch of the NBA season. And then more importantly, Kirk's class did this big study of how to fix the NBA season. And we're going to dive into that. And it's really cool. And I urge you to continue to listen through the pod until we get to that part.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't foul out on your chance to win with America's number one sports book. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Plus enjoy our new NBA player prop pages, your one-stop shop for player props that include FanDuel's exclusive performance trends.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah. And then it would be Cleveland against somebody crappy. Before we get to where it's, and I'm sorry, I may be a tangent, but am I the only one who thinks Cleveland is clearly the favorite right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I thought the Philly Super Bowl really fucked me up, Paz.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You were in New Orleans eating fried oysters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
No, I've had a lot of regrets and I've spent a lot of time thinking about what went wrong with my Super Bowl pick because my instincts are telling me Philly. I've talked about this. But I do wonder sometimes if hunger is the most underrated thing noun in sports. And that's what worries me about Cleveland versus Boston. As Boston plays hard, Tatum plays hard every night, the team gives a shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You hit that, you get 30% on top of what you win. Be sure to claim the PBT, place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel website. Sportsbook app. So I think this is the fifth year we've done it. Me and Big Waz and House, we draft the worst contracts in the league. It sounds like a negative podcast. It's actually very positive because we have a lot of laughs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
But Cleveland hasn't been there before. And every guy in that team, when they play the Celtics, it will be the most important two weeks of their life. And the Celtics can't say the same. And there's that little edge of like game seven at home, Donovan Mitchell, with like, holy shit, I could actually make the finals. This is my moment right now. The Celtics had that last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Going back to back is really hard. The history of the NBA is like, this is the single hardest thing you can do in the NBA is win the second time in a row. And that's what worries me that the health, What am I getting from Porzingis? What am I getting from holiday? And then this Cleveland team that just can play everybody 30 minutes a game or less. They have incredible depth. They have a bench.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
They have a huge lead. They're going to play somebody absolutely shitty in round one, right? Like truly shitty. Whoever that eight, nine, that is going to be a shit team. They're going to get a sweep in that. And they're just going to be fresh. In round two. And that, you know, that's a real thing. So those are my concerns. Who would be the fourth seed in the East? I'm blanking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I mean, Milwaukee's playing better than Indiana.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
They had a tough loss last night. Why is this guy Schroeder has been really good on the Pistons? That was a sneaky trade. I don't know why Miami didn't want him, especially when Terry Rozier has died, as we're going to cover in the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
They played him. He came off the bench yesterday. Harden went nuts yesterday. And Schroeder kind of took him in the fourth quarter and was just doing a whole bunch of German Schroeder things on him and just defending him full court and annoying him. And Harden was getting madder and madder. I think that Detroit team, that Detroit Knicks series is going to be an absolute bitch for the Knicks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And I can't wait because they are going to be trying to get in the fights. try, you know, shoving matches, get chippy. They're going to try to work on towns. They're going to try to hit Brunson. They have wise. Where do we, so I talked about the Sunday, Ron Holland, who's I think averaging an altercation every 10 minutes. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I agree. I like how feisty they are. Feisty team. OK. We're going to we're going to take a break and then we're going to do the worst contracts draft. House, are you playing FanDuel 30 on 30?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We have a great time talking about it. We're going to talk Warriors, Lakers at the top with House and Waz and then dive into the worst contracts of 2025 in the NBA. This is always a blast. Can't wait. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we've been doing it every year since 1977. The worst NBA contracts draft. One of my favorite times of the year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Just grab his 30 on 30 and you're ready to go. FanDuel, the home for all your favorite prop bets, whether you want to ride with my picks, because I'll be making picks on Friday on Twitter, or make your own. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduels.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday night. Make every moment more with FanDuel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You must be 21 plus presidents. Like states are 18 plus president in DC where Joe House is. Peter Schrager giving DC a lot of love recently. on this podcast. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-returnable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration, max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fender.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Available on DoorDash, by the way. Enjoy responsibly 2025 Anheuser-Busch Michelob Ultra light beer, St. Louis, Missouri must be 21 plus to order alcohol, alcohol available only in select markets. All right, it's time. The worst contracts draft. I think this is our fifth one. It's either four or five might be the fifth one. And the rules are as follows. We go, we go in a not snake fashion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We just go in a circle. Um, I'll read the, you have to say the contract or I'll say it after you pick the guy. And the thing is, it's almost like reverse NBA trade value. The worst contract in the league, the one you wouldn't want the most, the most untradeable contract, the one that if you were a fan of the team, you'd be like, oh my God. And there's one clear winner this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We'll see if it goes. House, did you want the first pick or you didn't? Because we have one wrinkle this year. Coaches and GMs are now eligible for the worst contracts draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
In the GM case, we don't even know what the contracts are, but you could still take a guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Doesn't matter. Anyway, House or Waz, one of you can have it. Do you want the first pick, Waz, or do you want it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
This is an interesting case because it actually is untradeable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Hold on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Shams is reporting he's exercised it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I would argue we should name it after Andre Blatch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I know, but they gave him an extension and then amnestied him before the extension kicked in. We're never going to top that. That's never going to happen in the history of the league ever again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Right, that could be the John Wall too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Well, it's also funny that the way they got him was Chris Paul was an expiring, right? That they could have bought out after his next year. And then they had Aiton who they wanted to get rid of. And they somehow turned that into Beal. And then another guy who's going to be in this worst contracts draft a little bit later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It was like they took two things where they actually would have had some flexibility and now they're just stuck. I just want to mention, His last two years, he's averaging 18 a game with 51, 40, 42, 82 percentage splits. And on paper, you could go to Basketball Reference in 50 years and be like, Bradley Beal wasn't that bad. This contract's devastating.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
When do you think his last season playing 61 games was?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We always wait for the perfect week of the season. Far enough away from the playoffs, right after the trade deadline, guys start getting sidelined, scratched, bodies start breaking down. Perfect time to do this. And we have a couple doozies at the top. House, just thinking back this decade, who was your favorite worst contract of the decade before the guys this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
The 2018-19 season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah. How many playoff games do you think he's played since he lost to the Celtics in the Kelly Olenek game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He's played 15 total. So they're not making it this year. So that'll be eight playoff games, 15 playoff games in eight years for Bradley. Anyway, a stunning number one pick, but I kind of liked it. Bold. People tomorrow in the papers would be like, Big Wasp pulled with his first pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We didn't have the same depth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It was probably the Ben Simmons, right? When he had all that money left, was he number one or somebody else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And we don't even know how much he makes and he's number two in the worst contract draft. Yeah, I did something on my pot at the top on Tuesday and I was thinking about it. Cause remember like when LeBron left Cleveland the first time and they would do those franchise values every year. And the last year he was on Cleveland, they were like the number two team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And then a year later they were like 28th. And it was just, they went from being like worth, I don't know, a billion point two to like being worth like 500 million. This is 15 years ago. If Luca wins the title with the Lakers this year, You could argue Dallas might, like this might be a, they have to move in the middle of the night and go somewhere else. Like just break leases.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Like who is the guy in the Colts? Ursae?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
They just moved to Baltimore in the middle of the night one night. It might be a move in the middle of the night one night. I don't know how they recover. And the way sports is consumed now with all these little kids get attached to players instead of teams. And all these kids love Luca. I don't know how they come back. Like, wow, this might be like a death blow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You had to get twice as much in the trade. And then even then, I'm not sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Well, did you see? Did you see kids thing? Do you see kids thing about he was he took real offense that people thought it was the increased workload that that hurt Kyrie's knee. And he's like, it was a fluke injury. It was like, dude, offense. We've been following the NBA our whole lives.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Like this is Klay Thompson going down the 2019 finals because he was playing like crazy minutes and doing some crazy workload. And then all of a sudden his his leg blew out like this is what happens in the league. The more you put on these guys, the more likely it is they're going to break down. Dumbass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
When they shook out a trade and backed out, became the first team in 15 years to back out of a trade? It was a smart back out. Good back out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So the better move would have been to back out of the trade because of the physical, because of the reaction. But now you've lit a fire under Luca. That would have been a better outcome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It was unbelievable to you as it was happening and the no trade pushed it over the top. Is there anybody else you would put, Waz? Would you put Simmons above that or no?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I mean, why would he even want to stay in Dallas now? He should resign. Great point. Here's the thing. I'll make a prediction because we saw this in 2011 when Cleveland miraculously won the lottery the year after LeBron left. I just think Dallas wins the lottery now. I'm going to bet on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I'm going to bet on it on FanDuel. No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Dallas wins the lottery.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We got safe basketball at Dallas. Oh, they got Cooper flag. Everything's okay. You don't like this idea, House? Like 101 odds?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
God, you guys took that so seriously. I'm up. I don't know how he's still on the board. It's very reminiscent of the 2014 NBA draft when he fell to three. Vince Carter was half man, half amazing. He's half man, half available. He's Joel Embiid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Five years, $299.5 million left. By the end of this season, because he's been scratched for the rest of the season, 452 games played, 440 games missed. It's a very sad story. I don't mean to sound so excited talking about it. I'm just excited he was still on the board. I'm just going to read through his injuries, guys. In college, stress fracture in his lower back, mismarch madness.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Right before the draft, stress fracture, navicular bone in his foot, 2014. Rebroke the same thing, 2015. Left meniscus tear, 2017. Fractured orbital bone, 18. Finger surgery, 2020. Right meniscus tear, 2021. So he tore meniscus in both legs. Torn ligaments, right thumb, 22. Fractured same orbital bone, 22. Right torn lateral meniscus, 23.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
There's two different meniscuses, I guess, in his right knee. Tore both of them. Bell's palsy, 24. And then this year... They don't they're not even telling us what the injury is. It's just left knee swelling management that now he's out. And what's weird is the left knee was the one that's only been operated on once unless they're not telling us about one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And then the right knee, which isn't even the one that's having all the swelling, has two operations, four years left. it's, there's no way out of this. And we've seen with the big centers, like once you keep breaking down like this, there's really no path back. And maybe if there's a path, it's 50, 60 games. brutal contract was. Why did they do the extension? Will we ever figure this out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Why did they do it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, but why? Why? they said, so they do the extension, but then bond temps writes that piece right before the season starts about how Philly finally has their plan to peak in the playoffs. And Embiid says, I'm never playing back to backs again for the rest of my career. That would have been my extension red flag. Call me nuts to just add the 3 million, three years and 170 million to a contract.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I'm already worried about house. What, from what you saw from Embiid in the Olympics, would you have given him an extension?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Oh, yeah, there was the Westbrook one. I forgot. Yeah, we had that Wall-Westbrook trade combo. Yes. Simmons was five years for 177, and I think the last four was just complete regret by everybody who had him. So we should mention, you know, we've been trying to stay positive on the pods with our Ringer NBA coverage. This isn't a sadly negative podcast, but we have fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Oh, yeah. You can't get used to the smell of shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Didn't look as explosive. No, they used his size really well, but you could tell he wasn't 100%.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
By the way, that's a red flag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He would have been 32 and had played 60% of the games in his career. Listen, I've known Darryl a long time. I think if there's a flaw with him, I think he wants to be liked by players. And we saw that when the Harden thing fell sideways. And I just think he likes Embiid. and wanted to take care of them and, and chose to see it as a glass half full versus a glass half empty thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And I think the owners like can be too. And ultimately like that was what was so funny about last week when they're leaking out, like this was Daryl's fault. Daryl did this. It's like the owner makes the decision. They just stop. It's that one person is, is signing that extension. And one person is asking all the questions and getting all the answers for it. But
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We don't, there might be some like insurance wrinkles with this that, you know, cause we found out more info about Zion's contract as he, as the months came out and there might be some wrinkles with this, but as of yet, we have not heard of any. And this just seems like a straight $300 million for a guy who doesn't seem like he's going to be able to play that much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He'll be 31 next year. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We have not seen. The only person we've seen retire is Andrew Luck. Yeah. Like just walk away from money. And that was seemed like a more like, I don't want to put my body through this anymore. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Hey, there's great contracts, great trades, great teams. The storylines are awesome right now. How sweet. We haven't talked on the pod. We have the Warriors and Lakers as legitimate contenders all of a sudden. It's unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
A lot of a tragic figure. I mean, everybody likes him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Right. Well, House and I are old enough to remember doing this dance with Bill Walton way, way, way back when. Yeah. Yao Ming, Greg Oden, Ralph Sampson. There's been a lot of big dudes that their bodies couldn't hold up because... Just fundamentally, it's really hard for a 7'3 person to run up and down a basketball for nine months a year and jump up and down and land on things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You're playing with fire. All right, we're going to take one more break, and then we'll do the rest. All right, come back. Waz is up. There's one big kahuna still left on the board.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I honestly thought these two could be one, two in the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Amazing. So Paul George is four years to 11.6. Three years after this one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He's dropped.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I couldn't figure out a way to look this up because I'm not smart enough. But when somebody drops six points a game, just fundamentally, when somebody goes from 22 to 16 and they played their like year 12 or later, it usually doesn't come back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
The league feels like it's been supercharged over the last couple of weeks. We were like worried. Oh, my God, this is just going to be Cleveland, Boston, OKC and literally nobody else. And now all of a sudden Denver's in there. The Lakers, the Warriors, the Knicks are kind of lingering a little bit. But was super fun NBA season all of a sudden.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I remember talking about this with Jermaine O'Neal 20 years ago, when you go from being a 24, 10 guy or 22, 11 guy, and now you're like a 15 and nine guy, it doesn't come back. And that, that would be my fear with Paul George. And I don't, they said like, something's wrong with this finger, but it doesn't explain the lack of explosiveness. It's
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Wow, we could have foreseen it. This is bad. House, this is one of those, we see this in sports sometimes, you had to do it, but you didn't feel awesome about it as you're doing it. Signings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Well, next year is year 16 for him in the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
The year after that will be year 17. And then the last year of this contract will be year 18. Not feeling great about it. And he's another one that's had some physical stuff, right? He's got the rod in his leg and all kinds of things. Well, House, you're up in the... there's, I think there's one prime time guy left here, but we'll see if you take them. Oh, interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I think there's, I think there's one good one left, but let's see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It's round two and houses already like flummoxed and can't figure out how to pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Can we give the contract? Because he's on the last year of his rookie deal, which is $10 million. Next year, we're kicking in five years, $224 million. So you're not a fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I've been saying this for a while, and the Toronto fans get mad. I'm not against Scottie Barnes becoming potentially a guy, but they've been... He's been treated from day one like he's a future franchise guy. Remember, he wasn't in the KD trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You go really good? I think he's a good player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Controlling the ball at the end of the game. It's that Iguodala Philly situation, right? Where it's like, all right, you're not really a number one guy, but if you're a number three guy on an awesome team, you might be awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I love it. House has replaced Trump as the number one enemy of Canada.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It's good. And you warned us about Bradley bill. You've warned us about guys in the past. Scotty Barnes averaging 28 and six. He's shooting 27% from three. And the team loses year after year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He turns 24 in August. Listen, they need him to be a number one guy if they're going to pay him that kind of money. That's right. I agree. I like the pick. You used history. Thank you. I think this young guy might be a Max guy, so I'm giving him a Max when there's no actual evidence he's a Max guy. Look at his stats and his basketball reference page is really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We have seen this go wrong many times. I like the Wiggins seat too. Well, guys, I feel like I've already won the draft. I got Joel Embiid with the third pick. Kawhi Leonard still on the board. I don't know. What are you guys doing? Kawhi Leonard, three years, $149 million. He's played 20 games this season. He's played 249 games in six years for the Clippers. He's played 15 playoff games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
What is he, Cal Ripken Jr. all of a sudden?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I watched last night and it's like, there's Kawhi during a timeout wearing a, you know, jogging suit. It's like, oh, I guess he's not playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Never know if he's going to play. You go to a Clipper game, it's like, oh, Kawhi's warming up. He's going to play. This is great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It's the fact of him not being available. So the case for this contract, they had a really fun Lakers game a couple nights ago. And Kawhi played, played 40 minutes. 13 for 23, 33 points, 10 rebounds, and looked like he was every bit as good as Luke and LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Two of the highest IQ guys we've had in the last 30 years on a basketball court. I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out. It's been really fun to watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And that's why he did it. Now, if you saw a tweet tomorrow and it's like Kawhi Leonard has been shut down for the next three weeks, wouldn't be surprised at all. And that's why for 50 million a year. It's fair. I got to put him on there. 249 games in six years for the Clippers is nuts. Waz, you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Like they, who are they competing against five years, 90 million for Patrick Williams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
The bulls are your, your guy in your fantasy league, your, your friend that you haven't talked to in 12 years, who doesn't really make any moves. And then every once in a while we'll spend $58 in the free agent auction. And you're like, Oh, there he is. It's like trying to finish sixth place. what's this guy doing? I just likes being in the league. He likes being on the email threads.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Uh, they're embarrassing. I, I had Patrick Williams too. He's 26 minutes a game somehow this season, averaging 37% from, uh, on field goals house. And, uh, I've never, I just don't get it when I watched them. He doesn't really jump out of the TV. There seems like there's 20 guys like him. I don't know why you would pay him. I think five years from 50 would have been Insane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
This is crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It looks like he's completely lost his ability to play basketball. Because I looked up when they made the trade last year. Because I remember thinking like... Oh, getting Terry Rozier for what they gave up like a first for him. I would much rather do that than give all the shit you had to give up for Dame Lillard, which included Tyler Hero, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So when they traded for him last year, he played 30 Charlotte games, 23.2 points a game. Yeah. 36% from three. Yeah. And was playing awesome and was like crunch time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah. This year... His stats are almost half. He's 11.8 points a game. He's shooting 40%. He's shooting 29% from three. And I test wise, he might be the worst rotation guy in the league. And I don't know what happened. And there's lots of theories floating around, not hard to find, but you know, it really seems like whatever, there might be a scandal with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
There might not with some of this betting thing, but it really seems like it sent him into an absolute tailspin, but they keep playing him as the part I don't get house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Orlando's 29-34. Atlanta's 28-34. So they could fall to the ninth seed pretty easily if they wanted to. The shocking thing to me is they are a bottom half of the league from a talent standpoint. The weirdest thing to me that I think helps your theory house is why they didn't want Schroeder. Why don't they want him? Great point. Like they, they actively try to not keep him in the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It's like that guy actually would have been a really fun heat that would have helped you. And now instead you're playing Terry Rozier. I don't, I've never seen some, somebody who is not past this prime, right? He was, he's, I think he was, I'm going to say he's 30. I've never seen somebody greater.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I've never seen somebody crater where last year you're watching going, man, Terry Rozier, could he make the all-star team to this guy is now the worst rotation guy in the league. Good pick house. Um, I feel really bad with my next pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
doesn't make me feel good i almost want to take a shower after um he's somebody i did not like for a long time and he really won me back over the last couple years i really respect him i really feel bad for him i feel for him and this is way too soon but i have to take kairi irving um he only has two years left at 84.9 million he's not playing this year and i don't think he's playing next year
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Well, regardless, this Kyrie, the ACL injury, when it happens at this point in the season, it's usually a season and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We saw it with Jamal Murray. In football, you can come back in less than a year. In basketball, it doesn't seem like you can. So basically, he's not going to play again on this contract. And I feel bad, but I don't see a worse contract left than two years, 84.9 for a guy who can't play. So not his fault. It's tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
With a lot of scary history for small guards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So we have a Celtic Laker game Saturday night. That's You know, other than that first Cleveland OKC game is probably the most fascinating game of the season. And it's two guys that the Celtics have real history with. Right. They played Luke in the in the finals last year. And then LeBron has been their biggest foil of the 21st century, both on the same team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Wait, you're saying that a team owned by Patrick Dumont who just traded the most popular guy in the history of the franchise since Dirk DeWitzki and then talked all kinds of leaky shit about him after they traded him would do something shady?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You're up now. Go ahead. Actually, let's take one more break and then you're up. All right. Let's go speed round from now on. Waz, you're up. Who do you got?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
To be fair, it's three years, $120 million extension.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And it's still awful because that's $40 million a year for a guy that New Orleans could not trade for a solid year as an expiring contract.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Also, I love putting a worst contract on here that hasn't officially kicked in yet. Kudos to everybody involved. It's on its way. Musayu Harry, who, remember there was that moment when it was like, could the Knicks just turn over the entire franchise to him? Is this guy the next, see the next guy? And he did a great job with the Raptors in the 2010s, but holy shit, the last five years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I disagree with basically everything they've done. I just don't understand it. House, you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
They're so weird to watch just as a team. Now they have no center. Did no point guard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, it's time. The annual NBA worst contracts draft with House and Wise. It's next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed it, we did a rewatchables on Monday night. It was Rocky, the 1976 Oscar winner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
First of all, classic house, backhanded compliment, talks about what a great fit he is, then complains about the contract. The extension was four years for 207.8. That kicks in starting next year. I'm personally fine with it. I had him way later in the draft. I had him way later in the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Long arm Jackson. But you watch that and you're like, I don't know why this is working, but it's working. And this is a team I would not want to see in a series when everything slows down and you have to play the same team every time for two weeks. And I just don't want to see these guys under any circumstances. And LeBron looks rejuvenated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I think House has moved into the clear number one spot for a guy who's going to take the most shit online from this draft. And I can't wait for it. I'm going to read you the salary years for my pick. Yet another great pick. I feel like I'm dominating the draft now. $43.827,587 this year. So almost $44 million this year. Three-year extension kicking in for $109.5 million next three years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
That's right. The Stifle Tower himself. Rudy Gobert. I had him circled.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
This is a really interesting one. They had him at 43.8 this year and 46.6 next year. And they thought they would get all smart. They're like, hey, Rudy. Let's wipe out that player option for the 46.6, and we'll give you the three years 109. And then we'll turn Carl Anthony Towns into DiVincenzo and Julius Randle. And it's a reallocation of money. It's going to be great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So Rudy Gobert, who is having the worst statistical season he's had, is it fair to say he is unplayable? in a Lakers series, an OKC series, and a Golden State series?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You think he sees the court in a Lakers series? You think he sees a fourth quarter in a Lakers series with Luka and LeBron in the game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And then he got played off the court by Luka Doncic in the next series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
But why? That's not why they did it. I would be fine if that's why they did it. They did it because of the money, because they are worried about how much money they're paying. They didn't want to pay Townsville what he was paying. And they looked at it as like, we can get off this Randall deal, hopefully next year, because they'll have an awesome season for us. They'll go into free agency.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Guess what? Julius Randall will be opting into the $32 million next year. So they didn't get out of that contract. Deep and Shenzo, they're going to lose. And now they're stuck with Rudy for three more years. And I don't know, man. They're going to lose Nas Reed now. Nas Reed is gone. Like he's done. He's leaving. They can't keep him out. There's no chance they keep him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And by the way, LeBron started to look rejuvenated two weeks before this trade. I'm just flagging that. I'm just flagging that. Yeah, he's got – Hopping his step from about two weeks earlier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He is going to New Orleans. He'll go to Brooklyn. He could go to your Washington Wizards. He's going to be making $35 million a year next year and will not be in Minnesota.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He's not happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I can't believe this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I'm going to be texting you guys when he's sitting on the bench in the fourth quarter of a Lakers series, watching LeBron and Luka run pick and rolls. Waz, you're up. But Julius Randle's still available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Four for one, 14 for him. I mean, it could be worse. They could have traded Dyson Daniels in the weight house. You're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You're just taking him anyway?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Did you say Jimmy Curry? You've already had your first malapropism of the pod. I did say it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I like it. You know, I'm upset that Patrick Williams is gone because this is right where I thought I was going to be able to get him. But he's not he's not on the list anymore. I got to do a manual quickly. We got to go back to the Raptors. Wow. Unbelievable. Got to do it one more time. He's in the first year of a deal that pays him five years, 162.5 million. And I kind of like Emmanuel quickly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Like he's 38% from three. He's instant offense off the bench, but his destiny on any good team on an actual good team would be a sixth or seventh man, a bench score, instant offense. That's how you'd want to ideally use him. And you don't pay 30 plus million dollars a year for a guy like that. You pay like 14 million dollars a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You pay the Celtics are paying Peyton Pritchard seven million a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Right. Right. That would, if we were doing the best contracts, that's when it was up there. For sure. I just, it's just too much money. If it was five for 100, I'd be like, all right, I guess. But, uh, when you're talking about that much and now you're basically locked into Barnes and Ingram and quickly as your three expensive guys, where the fuck are you going at that point?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
What, what, what do you think is going to happen? Wait, you're going to win. 38 games? I honestly do not understand what Toronto is doing. Anyway, Waz, you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Well, he blew out his knee, but you're saying next year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
All right. House?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I didn't know where to put him on the board because he technically has four for 163 left, but they have all these different outs for games played, for weighing him, and it seems like a movable contract. I also think teams would have traded for it in February if they had put it out there, and I know teams kick the tires on it. I'm positive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And I think New Orleans was like, no, we need, but maybe this summer we could see something. He's looking at these games though. I did too. I want it to work. Um, okay. Well, I need a white guy. And, uh, this is very similar to, to what I just laid out with Emmanuel quickly, uh, Grayson Allen at four years, 70 million to basically be my ninth man. Like, yeah, he's shooting 43% from three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He's Sam Houser. He's in that kind of level of like those white dudes the Cavs have. There's a bunch of these guys. And guess what? None of them are making 17, 18 million a year. They're all making like three. They're making four. They're making two. They're making, oh man, we found this guy in the waiver wire. They're not making this. So congratulations, Matt Ishbia. You did it again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I mean, he's making Austin Reeves money. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. He's making more than Austin Reeves. He's making more than Austin Reeves. That's correct. He's nowhere near as good. I'm glad you brought up Austin Reeves because fuck the Spurs again for not making an offer that summer. I said it that whole month and everybody's like, why are you just saying this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Because you want the Lakers to lose him. It's like, no, I'm saying because Austin Reeves is good and he should have gone. Now that's somebody, if he got a quickly deal, I would have been like, all right, a little high, but I would do it. Waz, who do you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I'm sorry. I love when you do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So they're paying him four for 186. It's year one of the new extension. Listen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Because I want to win 43 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I think there's a world where you could build an awesome team around him, but I think it's really hard. Like you really have to put a lot of thought into every other player in that roster because he does have some limitations, but you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Wow. Every year, Sabotus just takes strays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We're going to get to play golf at Bel Air with Doc. We got to praise him. Now you pissed off another fan base.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And wait for the playoffs, Al.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, it's very Dan Campbell, Lions-ish, those speeches he does. And, you know, it's little stuff with him, like the pulling back Dalton Connect, right? Guy gets traded out of nowhere, goes to Charlotte, meets everybody on Charlotte. Trade gets rescinded. It's like, ooh, hey, man, good to see you again. How have you been? Boy, this is awkward. And yet he's he's, you know, inspiring him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
For my next pick, First of all, House has won the draft for pissing off the most fan bases. He locked it up two rounds ago. Milwaukee's not going to be pissed. Oh, yeah. Don't be mad. The Dame fans. There's a whole Dame hive. I can't believe this guy's still available. Three years, 66 million. Contavious Caldwell Pope. Goes to Orlando.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Leaves Denver. Christian Brown comes in and is immediately like twice as good as he was. Goes to Orlando. Oh, my God. Twice as good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Here are the stats. 60 games. 8.6 points. 2.1 rebounds. 1.8 assists. Congratulations on all that. 31% from three. Yeah. He's rocking the 9.0 PER.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And he's playing 30 minutes a game. And you could argue, if anyone playing 30 minutes or more a game, he might be the least useful player. And I know there's good defense. Look, he's a good defensive player. There's metrics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Great locker room guy, all that. But I promise you they were looking for more than what he's given them this year with this contract. So he is my pick. Wiles, who do you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
That's part of the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Well, can we get the deal? One for 12. And then next year, three for 105 as an extension.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And by the way, good content for us because he's going to be in 58% of the fake trades we make in June.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
When we get to David Booker and we try to, it's like, well, Jalen Green will be in it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He cannot create anything for anybody else. That would be the criticism.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah. There was a moment last year when it really felt like it all came together and I have not seen it. It was waiting. House, you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You always forget to say the contract. Three years, $85 million. That counts this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Everyone's getting groggy. We're nearing the end of the draft. And I haven't really pissed off the fan base yet. And I also haven't made Waz laugh hysterically with a pick yet. And I think this is going to be it. It's the most controversial pick of the late rounds. I got to do it. Four years, 163 million. John Morant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Listen, it's the end of the draft. I'm just trying to get value. I'm just trying to get value. Why doesn't he play? Why doesn't he play?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
What's going on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It's not like he's a huge part of the team, but he's one of their best nine guys. They kind of need him. I've been fascinated watching and I've talked about this in the pod before, but watching LeBron just like his fucking Terminator brain recalculating how he should be used. with Luca having the ball this much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He's 25. What are we preserving him for? He should be playing every game. He can't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So this year he's played 38 games this year. He played nine games last year. He plays 29.4 minutes a game. He doesn't even play 30 minutes a game. And they are kid gloves bubble wrapping him. And now yesterday he didn't play well. And he's like, I don't know if my shoulder is going to be good the rest of the year. So now I have a fundamental shoulder issue on top of all the other baggage. Like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Look, there's 10 teams that are paying in that contract without blinking. I'm just flagging it. We're near the end of the draft. The contract, the numbers are pretty high for somebody who doesn't seem like he's going to play all the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Who do you got, Wes?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And he's a very good defender, but I will also say that Tatum and Brown aren't exactly quaking in their boots when they see him. And that was one of the reasons they did that thing. I'm with you. For the injury issues with him that always are lingering, 212 is a scary number.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Where his team has been high fiving and shaking hands and celebration after games. It's a unique experience for him. We're missing the winning component now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And I think he immediately embraced, I don't need to actually use as much energy as I used to. This is actually really good for me. Now I'm like picking my spots in short bursts. It's very similar to that first Miami season when Wade was awesome. And he didn't know how to pick his spots that year, especially as we got in the playoffs. And now, you know, he's such a good three-point shooter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Woz took Bradley Beal to kick us off. House took Nico Harrison. I took Joel Embiid. And then it went Paul George, Scotty Barnes, Kawhi Leonard, Patrick Williams, Terry Rozier, Kyrie Irving. I felt bad about that one. Brandon Ingram, Jamal Murray, Rudy Gobert, DeJounte Murray, Ben Simmons, just an emeritus just has to be picked anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
If they're making a million bucks, House just hasn't been on the board. Honorary. I took a manual quickly. Then Grant Williams, Zion Williamson, Grayson Allen, Dematis Sabonis, Dame Lillard, Contavious Caldwell-Pope, Jalen Green, Andrew Wiggins, John Morant, O.J. Ananobi, LaMelo Ball, and the last pick of the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
only because he has to, another guy, he's like Ben Simmons, he has to be in their house. He's so excited. Zach Levine, three for 141. We got to have him. Can't leave Zach. Zach was outside the door knocking, like, hey guys. I thought that was the worst contract party. Hey, anybody home? Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I mean, the case for that, even though he's had a really good year, is the Bulls traded him and didn't even get good stuff back. They got a hill of beans. They just got bad contracts from other teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So apologies to the following people for not getting picked. Julius Randle, two for 64. Jimmy Butler, three for 159. Chris Middleton on house is with us. Two for six. Yep. Zach Collins, two for 35.7. Part of that contract is still happening. How is he not in our draft?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Kevin Herter, two for 35.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Terrence Mann, one for 11 this year, then kicks in three for 47. Lori Markkinen, five for 237. I did look at him for the last couple rounds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I almost took him over John Morant. Gary Harris, two for 15. Just had to put it under their principle. Buddy Heald, four for 38. Can't believe he didn't get drafted. Teams are trying to sign him as an undrafted free agent for the draft right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He wasn't in 2011. Now he is. But then he's also figured out the defense rebounding. It's a really great team to watch right now. And I'll say this. I know a lot of Laker fans, as this was, I can't even describe how euphoric they are. They went from like, this is a wrap. I don't like watching this team. I can't take another AD up and down. He's hurt. He wants to play the four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I had a wonderful time. Me too. It was the worst contracts draft. My favorite part is that everyone's going to be the maddest at house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I feel like maybe the Memphis fans come after me a tiny bit. Waz, who's coming after you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Definitely Sacramento. Oh, Sabonis. Yeah, the Sabonis hive coming at you. This was a blast though. Thanks to Saruti and thanks Kyle. Thanks Gahal. As always, you can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify. I don't know why you would, because you just finished the podcast, but it's also going to be available on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
You can listen to the house on fairway rolling and on the, uh, ringer gambling show. You can listen to wise. I'm group chat with Mahoney and barrier on the ringer NBA show. Great to see you fellas. Thank you. Yeah. Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and president DC gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
LeBron's padding his stats. He's not playing defense. This sucks. We're fucked for the decade. In a flip, it's like they inherited money from some aunt they never knew. It's like, my aunt just gave me $10 million. I hadn't seen her in 12 years. That's the attitude. They're going absolutely crazy house, and I might have to move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
No, it's at least basketball. I think it's the craziest, most invincible trade we've had in basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And we said this when the trade happened. And I know I said this on this pod. This is the greatest thing you ever did for Luka Doncic. we talked about this was when we did the trade deadline pod, like a week after it's like, well, yeah, maybe you were worried about some stuff, but you just did him the greatest favor you could have ever done them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Can't believe we didn't do it yet. It was me and Chris Ryan and Van Lathan. So please go check that out. You can check it out on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. As well. I'm also on the Prestige TV podcast every Sunday night doing White Lotus recaps with Joanna and Mallory. And we have a great time doing that. We're brought to you by Fandle Sportsbook as well, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah. Now, now he's going to have a comeback. And that's the other thing with LA is LA loves comeback stories. LA loves like, Oh, Ben Affleck. He's he's made gone baby gone. He's back. He looked like he had it rock bottom. Now he's putting his career back together. And this Lucas, as great as he is, but he was a little bit of a comeback story. It's gonna be fun to watch him get in better shape.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Embrace vegan food. Embrace smoothies. Embrace the Versa climber. All this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He needs a celebrity relationship soon. He's going to be playing all the hits. It's going to be great. Fellas, I don't want to see this team in a playoff series if I'm basically anybody. And I'm sure there's going to be ways as we keep watching them that you can solve some of their deficiencies. But right now, it's just...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
If you have two guys who are putting up 60 points a game, I just don't want to see a team like that. So that story has been great. And then Golden State. Oh, excellent. The Jimmy thing is excellent. Can we officially say that worked out way better for them than getting KD? Because when we did the trade deadline, we were like, hmm, I don't know. What are we getting from Jimmy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And we were all bullish on the Jimmy part. But I think now that we've watched it, the fact that he can give them this two-way defense stuff doesn't really necessarily need the ball. You don't get all of the up-and-down personality stuff that, sadly, KD brings to the table from time to time. We saw it the other night on TV. Wait, wait, wait, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
I'm just talking this season, House.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
We've seen Jimmy's teeth this season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
He didn't want to go to Golden State House. If he did want to, is what I'm saying. If it had been in his brain that that was where he wanted to land. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. I mean, he didn't want to go to Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, 16, 17 Golden State. That was the last full happy season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
And they're doing the 30 on 30 podcast. those little profit boosts that we do. Every Friday, you have to pick a 30 points plus score. Who's going to get at least 30? Look at all the matchups. I'll tweet out my picks who I think might have the best chance to do it. And if you hit, you get 30% profit boost on it. So let's say Jokic on Friday night is like, I don't know, minus 128.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Right. It's crazy. The other thing, it's so funny with basketball, how you can just add one guy and the entire team slides into place, right? Like, now Moody is kind of doing a Wiggins impersonation defensively, and he was really good the other night in that Knicks game. Pods, who had the ball too much, and they were almost using him as like a second...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
second playmaker because they didn't really have another choice. Now he just is who he is, which is a guy on the side who can hit some threes and rebound and play hard. And then Draymond doesn't have to worry about anything at all other than throwing entry passes to Jimmy or setting screens for Steph. And you feel, Russell and I talked about it Sunday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
It's like you can see it's like a different human being, Steph now. Steph had weight of the world on his shoulders. Just looked like he had played nine games in 10 nights every night. And now he's skipping around. The way he played at MSG, he's a little tweaked ankle. And he's just dancing and prancing the whole day, which was awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
So, you know, it's funny because we talked, I don't know how many months ago, about how this league was a prisoner of the LeBron Steph eras. And they couldn't move on and create these new stars. So now, ironically, they might get these two. The thing to watch for me is, can Golden State get into the 4-5? Mm-hmm. Can they get OKC in round two? Because I want to get them earlier than later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
Um, and, and I think avoid that Lakers Denver combo, let those guys beat the hell out of each other. And cause those are, those are going to be tough matchups for them, but if they can play OKC, I know OKC is excellent and they're a really good young team and they're having a great season, but Golden State OKC, they've already had awesome games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre
That's a team that I think Golden State feels like we can play with this team. Um, And I just feel like if we end up, we could have a round two where we could have Celtics-Knicks, we could have Lakers-Denver, and we could have Golden State-OKC. Those would be three of the four series. And I don't even know who the other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Coming up, part one of our special live trade deadline extravaganza next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
The sequel to Before Sunrise was four of us, me, Sean, Chris, Mallory. You can watch it on Ringer Movies' YouTube channel. You can also watch, Sean and Chris and I did a trailer reaction to the new Jurassic Park movie, which I think is called Jurassic Park Money Bag, so you can watch that on YouTube as well. You can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Let's talk about this, yeah, because this is part of the Butler conversation. So if you look at the West, OKC, Memphis, Houston, Denver, and the Lakers, who we're going to talk about. The Lakers are 29 and 19. And I think Arrow pointing up, I think all five of those teams are in the playoffs, right? So there's one playoff non-playing spot left. We have the Clippers at 29 and 22.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Looking a little creaky. Yeah. Minnesota 28 and 23. They've looked creaky the whole time. We have four teams with 25 losses, Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix, Golden State. So now that's 11. And then we have San Antonio at 22 and 26 with some good vibes. There's 12 teams that have a chance. Four of those teams are not going to make the playoffs. And I can stare at that list forever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And it's like, what would your, who would your four be? Like, who's your number one? Would you have San Antonio as your number one pick for not making the playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So if they went on like a five-game winning streak, they'd be in the ballpark? Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Okay, so now it gets fun. Who's your number two pick for, sorry, the West is too loaded, you're not making the playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Well, can I give you the Fando odds? See, this is cheating. Spurs plus 370 has the highest odds to make the playoffs. So they agree with us on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And say, I've ruined my own draft. I should have looked at this after. Okay. Sacramento plus 290. Yeah. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
They basically have thrown away the point guard position. But when you watch them, especially in crunch time, it kind of makes sense with Malik like running stuff and it's not that crazy. And then when they did the Valanciunas trade, I was like, what the fuck is that? That makes no sense to me. You can't play him and Sabonis at the same time. And I was like, wait a second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And I started getting like flashbacks to bad FIBA games. And I'm like, oh, those guys were teammates. And then you go read it and those guys are boys. They've figured out how to weirdly either play with each other or not. And they got them for free. And they just have all these professional and veteran basketball players. I would put Phoenix over them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Phoenix is plus 198 on FanDuel to make the playoffs. I think the Phoenix thing, like the stuff you hear like through the grapevine about like the locker room. Shocking. Our guy, Coach Bud. Maybe a little Donnie Nelson on the Knicks-ish where it's just like not working out at all. You're not going to believe this, Waz, but it seems like KD might be on another unhappy team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
There's been no track record of that over the years. That's never happened, literally. Booker looks just miserable at all times. Weird year for him. And then Beal is getting heckled at home games. So I would have them second and Sacramento third. What do you have? What's your order for the top three?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
On the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, that's where we went live and we did a part one and a part two heading into the trade deadline. This is the part one that we started at 1.45 ET heading into the 75 minutes right up to the trade deadline. We recapped a bunch of stuff that already happened, tried to anticipate stuff. So when you listen to it, keep an ear for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So Dallas is minus 110 and Golden State is plus 126. And I got to be honest. I would bet on Golden State to make the playoffs over Dallas. I think this Dallas thing could go bad. We haven't had the three-week Kyrie injury. I don't trust AD's health. The team's weird. There's big three stuff going on, but Klay's in the big three. It's like, we're done. 2020's Klay in the big three is out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And also the fan base is so angry and so hostile. And the vibes are just so brutal that I could see it tailspinning. I really could.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Golden State 25 and 24, Dallas 26 and 24. And my guess is you got to get to maybe 46 wins to be, it's not just about being one of the six playoff teams, but you want to be seven or eight. You don't want to have to win the two road games in a row. I want to talk about the Jimmy FU factor. We're going to take a break for the podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you can get a 30% profit boost from the ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. FanDuel, the ringer, teaming up to give you a 30% profit boost when either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game. Just looking at the Friday slate,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I don't know. You could ride the SGA train. He's dropping 50 points left and right. He's playing Toronto. They can't guard anybody. You could do Cade Cunningham against Philly. You can do Giannis against Atlanta. I like that one. There's some good ones. I'll tweet out my picks when we get to Friday. But if you want to ride those or make them your own, look for 30 on 30.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
on America's number one sportsbook, FanDuel Sportsbook and their app, or head to FanDuel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday. Don't miss your chance to find out how much 30 can be worth with FanDuel's 30 on 30. You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt-in required bonus issue does not withdrawable profit boost tokens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at Sportsbook.FanDuel.com. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. You sign up for something, forget about it after the trial period ends, then you're charged month after month after month. The subscriptions are there, but you're not using them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And then part two is coming a little bit later. That is... Everything right after 3 p.m., the official trade deadline and our final thoughts, plus my million-dollar picks for the Super Bowl, which we barely talked about this week. Sorry, sometimes basketball wins. I hate to break it to everybody. Anyway, here is me, Rob Mahoney, and Big Waz talking NBA trade deadline, part one. Let's go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. So, and I've said this before, and I feel really strongly about it. I actually thought that was a great trade for Golden State. I don't think they gave up really anything. I know they loved Andrew Wiggins, but just fundamentally, it was an NBA 2K trade where you're just cheating the system and you're basically just turning Wiggins into Butler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
The protected pick, whatever. Yeah. The key to me would be if you're looking at it going, is Butler still good? Can he still be that guy? Because we didn't see it last year. He kept missing games, missed the playoffs. This year was spotty. And I think I talked about this more in a pod, but like five, six weeks ago, he had a game in Detroit. when he was just awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And that was, you can go back, you can watch it on League Pass. That's all you need to see. This was not one of those, oh, Jimmy made some threes and had a good game. He was fucking awesome. He was pissed off. I think he was mad at Miami. I think this was his trade value audition tape. And he just ran amok in this game. And I just think that's what he's going to do in Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I don't know if it's going to last two months. I don't know if it's going to last a year and two months. I think two years from now, it could be a catastrophe for them where they're just like, oh my God, we have Draymond and this guy. What the hell? But short term with Curry's window, you got to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, there's the crunch time piece, but there's also the every four games, he's just going to be awesome in a game. Right now, this Warriors team, unless Steph is awesome, you saw it last night against Utah. Yeah. They can just suck for five minutes and all of a sudden blow a game. They've blown a lot of uncharacteristically close games. You know, I'm going to say this knocking on wood.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I love Steph. He's at a different point of his career. He can still hit the heights, but he can't do it nearly as consistently.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
He's at a different point of his career. He just is. But I still think he could be a really great piece of a good team. With Butler... The question for me is that Detroit thing that he did that I saw, is that like a once every two weeks thing? Could he dial that up? Could he carry them? Because they're going to kind of need to jump on his back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And then when Kaminga comes back, if they keep him, and now they have some scoring off the bench, they have less guys in the team, which I think was a weird thing for them too. They had like 12, 13 guys that needed to play now that they've got the numbers down. But I just thought fundamentally it was an awesome trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I still don't feel great about it as a basketball fan, but I just think that's... We just have these moments where this guy who's making 52 and then 52 next year, it's not even the final year of his deal. He has a contract next year with a player option he can opt into, and he's just decided, I don't like my situation anymore. I'm going to torpedo it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I really feel like whenever the next CBA comes up, how do they figure out a wrinkle for this? Because if you're like a Miami fan, you just have to be like, what the fuck just happened?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
That's a tough one to say, though, when you're just missing games left and right last year, which I think was Miami's problem. It's like, dude, first of all, you're under contract for this year and next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
and play more but then Riley did the old guy thing that was that's what he does though he did it to LeBron two days before LeBron left and LeBron took it personally I kind of love every time he does it but the question is do you need an old crazy guy running your basketball franchise because he clearly doesn't he gives no shits anymore
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I don't know what my camera is, but this is the Bill Simmons Podcast, YouTube Live, presented by Nicola Beltre, Superior Light Beer, the official beer sponsor of the NBA. That's Rob Mahoney. That's Big Waz. So we're about to go live here, and a big trade happened. Cleveland gets DeAndre Hunter for Levert Niang, two second-round picks. Second-round picks, giant commodity, Waz.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Even Hassan Whiteside. He's like, I'm fucking, I just wish it ended better. So they also got Golden State's first, which is top 10 protected for two years in a row and then unprotected. I'm not scared. I still have Steph during that home run. Poor Dennis Schroeder. Can the guy just find a house to live in? Unfortunate remarks about trade culture.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Because last time I checked, every professional sport has trades. Oh my God, yeah. But he's kind of stuck in this new rule with the apron where if you're over $12.8 million... nobody who's over a certain apron can buy you out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I thought there was like a 12.8 million level too for like certain, so there's like eight teams he just can't even get bought out and go to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
One thing I didn't get with Miami, because I actually, there was a world where they just get Wiggins, Kyle Anderson, and Schroeder for...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I'll just tell you, my dad and I talking last night, Miami just has a slew of guys who killed the Celtics and Dennis Schroeder kills the Celtics for some reason. Wiggins had a lot of success against them in 22. Kyle Anderson's just weird in general. And we were like, I hope they don't keep all these dudes. Because if we see them in like a 2-7 series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
You really worried about this version of the Heat?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Another guy who I've always kind of liked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Okay, that makes two of you. I don't want to play Miami. They fucking pulled Jedi mind trick shit against Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Too soon? Come on. He was absolved. Stop it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Miami has cap space now. They're under the tax. They have a trade exception. And maybe they'll do one more thing before the 45 minutes from now deadline. I don't know, man. The way Hero's playing... Bam's been playing better. Yeah. Ware, out of nowhere, feels like they have a little bit more of an identity. They have some shooting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
We'll see if they can get more from Rogier, who's been really bad ever since they made that trade. But just as a sneaky, you're down 2-1 in a series against them, wondering what happened. I still feel like they're on the radar for me. Nobody else in the East is. That's the only team, once you get past the four seed, that's the only team I'd be like a little worried about in a series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I guess the Bucks, now that they got Kuzma, because he was red hot. I mean, he was playing great this season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And then two first-round swaps. We don't know what they are. I like this trade more than Rob. Because I like DeAndre Hunter. And you're like, go ahead, do your thing. I'm a skeptic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
He was doing great this season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I've never seen plus minuses that could get to like minus 59.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Was he really doing this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Rob, is this happening right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
He's been actively bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Absolutely. I think he's in the running for worst player of the season. Wow. If we were doing LVP, if you've actually watched Wizards games, I think he's one of the worst players I've seen this season. Can he just flip the switch and put it back? I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Is it that bad? Like they have a bunch of young guys. They have Jordan Poole playing pretty well this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Is it that bad? You're a veteran on the team. You didn't want them to trade you last year. They're trying to trade you to Dallas. You're like, I want to be here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
There was a stretch two weeks ago when he had zero points in two of three games. Like, goose eggs. It was a lot of alternating. But somehow he's shooting like 45% from three or some crazy thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Waz, we're recording this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Dwight Howard was on that team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I think Doc's going to hate Kyle Kuzma. I think he's going to be like, I can't believe we traded for this guy. Why didn't my scouts tell me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I'm going into our YouTube chat. Thanks to everybody who's sending questions. Rap Stallion says, hey, if it weren't for Kuzma, we might not have the nickname Din Shitty. I forgot about that. I forgot about the Kuzma Dinwiddie feud. So people want to know if they can trade Jordan Poole. He's playing pretty well this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
We're going to soon find out. I think they did the Vucevic trade and they're just like... Mic trap. No more trades for us. We did it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
It turns out he was their MVP. Who?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I thought it was Palo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So with the Milwaukee, that Kuzma trade, which is really a money trade, they have to waste their first round pick they took last year, AJ Johnson, got under the apron, which raises the question, why did the CBA suck so much? How did the league just turn into just people trying to get under the apron, make financial moves, save tax money? How did they... I know it's like on the one hand, you have...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
The NBA, the owners, Adam Silver, probably the smartest lawyers on the planet. And then on the other side, you have like a couple players, some dude who took the job because they thought it'd be cool to get a picture with LeBron. And they just, they get worked every time. But this is disgusting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Is that Levert though? I mean, Levert's a little ball stopper.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I've never seen it be the number one reason for this many trades before. We've always had like financial implications and stuff, but this is different. You have eight, nine, 10 teams that are just like, we're doing this because it gets us under apron one, apron two, apron three. I also think the fans don't, want to take the time to understand it. They don't care. It's confusing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And it turns into this have-have-not of basketball conversation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
You love the Hawks. I did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Well, it seems like they were... So I talked about this. We talked about this, about the Zach Levine thing, where... It's harder to trade Zach Levine. So Zach Levine then goes, all right, I guess I'll roll my sleeves up and I'm going to have an awesome season for Chicago. It's not like I can go anywhere. But for every Zach Levine, there's been 10 other ways that this went wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And it just seems like there's more player movement. There's more guys getting bought out. There's more roster turnover. We had another trade, by the way. What do we get? The Clippers have traded Terrence Mann. a beloved Clipper guy forever, who always had the T-man game, and Bones Highland, who couldn't have been more available, for Bogdan Bogdanovich in three second round picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Now we're talking. The Clips needed like a heat checky, off the bench kind of guy like this. I was really hoping Denver would get Bogdanovich because he has the Jokic thing. But as you know, Denver's not allowed to make trades or spend money. I think they're a zero apron team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
This happened in the Celtics five years ago where they either have giant contracts or small contracts that know in between. And you can't get the $16 to $20 million guy because you literally can't put the contracts together. Bogdanovich and the Clippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
He's been an underrated post-Olympics slowdown guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
10 points a game. Yeah. The shooting percentages are bad. Well, you know how normally 50-40-90 is the standard for percentages? He's a 37-30-88 guy. Not what you want. 7.6 PR. It's like nearing Bronny James level of... Sorry, Wes. But last year, 17 a game. Yeah. And...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I always feel with him like, first of all, Atlanta could not have been more of a wrong team for him. I don't know if Trey Young is the catalyst for him. I want to see him on a team that's like, you're coming in, you're going to play eight minutes, we're going to run plays for you. We're going to run you off picks, go nuts, do your thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And then for the Hawks, Terrence Mann, another long swing guy. There's some Clipper fans in my life who are like, when are they going to unleash this guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Bones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
But then he failed an IQ test. He wasn't happy playing with Nikoli Okic, which is like the number one IQ test.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Almost borderline, we could replace DN Waiters and the Rewatchables with the Bones Island heat check. It's almost like a personality heat check. All right, so Atlanta...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, it's like, we already lost the pick. What do we care if it's 4, 12, 15? I would personally care. I would be like, oh my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
We've seen this happen in the past. I remember the Clippers, that one year when they traded their number one to get rid of Baron Davis' contract. Yeah, we're just going to eat it. And then it turned into Kyrie Irving.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I just wouldn't want to, wouldn't want to find out. Speaking of teams that we don't know what the hell they're doing. Toronto traded for Brandon Ingram. What is this? I did a tweet where I did the power rankings of teams that I don't know what you're doing. And I didn't put Toronto in the top five because I haven't known what they're doing for like over a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
They just every year trade their pick. They get a guy who's kind of likable. He doesn't seem to make sense with any of the other players they have. And I have no idea why you would trade Bruce Brown, Kelly Olenek, and a pretty mediocre first. That's Indiana's pick. Yeah. to then pay Brandon Ingram when you're already overpaying Scottie Barnes, you're overpaying quickly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
RJ Barrett's making a shitload. I just don't understand their team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I did. I think this is a trade for our Celtics series where you're thinking we got to go against Tatum and Brown for two weeks potentially. We need a wing with size. We're not totally fired up about this LeBert and Yang situation. Can Hunter be the guy? And I don't know. I like the trade. I don't care about swaps. Cleveland's going to be good the whole decade. Niang and Levert, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And Brandon Ingram's been available since June? Like back in the days when we had video stores and you would just stroll by the new release section, you'd be like, huh, domestic disturbance with John Travolta and Vince Vaughn. I don't think so. And then you'd walk around for 15 more minutes and then you'd pick up the VHS tape again. Ah, Travolta and Vince Vaughn.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And then you'd stroll around again. Like that's Brandon Ingram. People were just strolling by the new release aisle for him for nine months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I'm already frustrated. He has a top five body of like, oh man, you're going to get hurt. Just when you see him in person, he's so skinny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Occasionally. Here's the red flag for me beyond all the other red flags. So you had Golden State. who was definitely strolling around that new release video store over and over again. Steve Kerr, who coached Brandon Ingram on one of those FIBA teams. No shot. And by the end, Brandon Ingram was like, he's sick. He can't play in the last two games because he was just out of the rotation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And Golden State, who desperately needed anything. And this was like the layup trade of all time. Give up nothing for Brandon Ingram. And they were like, we're good. We're not doing that. And then Miami, they're sitting there too. Hey, we can turn, whatever. And Miami's like, we're also good. And then you have Toronto who's like, we don't think we can get free agents ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So this is how we get free agents. And then they talk themselves into it. I don't like it. I don't like it at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Never, ever. And he's ball stopper-ative.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Would there be a worse team to be, like, the fifth guy? Than this one? Meaning you never get the ball passed to you? It's like you're the, like, Agbaje. You're like, fuck. Oh my God. I'm just going to be in the corner over here, guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I was wondering if he was like a sneaky trade deadline piece. And Toronto have been frisky lately. Especially on D. They've guarded really well. Well, their fans are frisky. They're like always taking everything personally. I mean, they did win the title in 2019.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
There's reasons to boo the national anthem right now. Right. 2019, they won the title. And since then, Masai's just been on a heater. It's like when Obama finished the presidency. He's like, I'm opening a production company and I'm playing golf. Messiah's like, I'm going to trade for Brandon Ingram.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Because they feel like they can't sign a free agent? I guess. Did Danny Chow like this trade?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I can't imagine. I'm going to say Brandon Ingram is not a Danny Chow type of player. Doesn't strike me as one. And then the New Orleans side of that trade, just quickly. So they're down to, as assets, Trey Murphy, the best player on the team, who I think is their only untouchable. He's been really good. Zion Williamson, wildcard, could get traded next half hour.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Second round picks, whatever. And Hunter's on a great deal. I think he's making like 17. It's not too bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
CJ McCollum, always in trade rumors. Herb Jones, Hawkins, Missy. Alvarado and DeJounte Murray, who will not be playing for at least a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And their first-round picks are fine, but not their whatever. They used to have like, oh, look at all those first-round picks. They've kind of taken all of them. But you go back to that AD trade. Dude, I go back to 2019 all the time. But look at all the people in this trade. DeAndre Hunter, Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, who I think was way more of an asset back then than he got hurt. Josh Hart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Mo Wagner. I forgot Mo Wagner was there. 22 first, which became Dyson Daniels. The 23 swap didn't apply. And then the 25 first pick. It was a lot. When you look back at like, they did get a lot of players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I think anytime you can get somebody under 20 who can play in the last five minutes of a round two playoff game, That's a pretty good deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
A ton of assets that look awesome on paper, but no longer play it in the team. Yeah, it didn't quite work out. And the Lonzo thing was the thing that I think hurt them the most because I actually really think Lonzo... And we're seeing this diminished version of him in Chicago who's still like a really additive player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, but going forward, I don't know what this team is. I don't know how long they're going to be in New Orleans. I don't know how long Zion's going to be in the team. I don't know what the plan would be going forward with this roster. And the Murray trade is catastrophic. I would have traded him already. Same. I don't think it's ever happening in New Orleans. So you just have to accept that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
It's like we all said how Jimmy Butler for Wiggins is a trade that makes no sense on paper. But if you're Miami, you don't have Jimmy Butler anymore. You have the ghost, you have zombie Jimmy Butler who's not an asset. So now you turn him into a guy who can play defense and rebound and hit some threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
We knew somebody was going to suck in the West heading into this season. We're like, there's just too many good teams. There's too much talent. Who is going to be the out of nowhere, this team sucks team? New Orleans has played 15 games and won 12th. That would not have been on my bingo card. Like they have so much talent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
You can feel something stinky maybe with them, the way they're hitting the Trey Murphy thing, Zion, you never know. But this is 12 wins is nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
What did you think of him being like, I'm shutting this down. I don't want to go to Golden State. If you trade for me, I'm going to be unhappy because that's confirmed. I heard all the same stuff everybody else had. It seemed like on Tuesday that was going to be a three-way trade. I think it was really close. And it basically came down to, are we sure KD is on board with this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And the feedback was he's not. He doesn't want to go back. So, Rob, you're in the Bay. Why did he want to go back?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
A Steve Kerr piece, the Draymond piece, this will be bad for my legacy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I went back and looked at his 2019 game log splits because he was really good to start the year. And then after the Draymond thing, I forgot like, he was like 21 a game, 33% from three. And then in the playoffs, he ran back up and he was awesome. But it was damaging for months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And I just, you know, that's what's so funny when you see these stuff now, these podcasts or these guys do these fake things together. And it's like Draymond and KD, no, no, we're good. It's like, There's no way they're good. Like Katie's never forgiving whatever happened, whatever was said. No. And there's that piece. There's probably a Steve Kerr piece.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
But from a basketball standpoint, if I was him, I would have rather been on Golden State. Just like it's a no-brainer. I don't want to be in this Phoenix team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And even it's not... Honestly, just put a bullet in my head there. I just wouldn't be able to handle it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Can we bring in Conspiracy Bill for a second? Let's do it. I thought he was already in the room with us. No, we bring him in. Okay. I'll put a hoodie on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Are we sure there's that lingering bitterness with KD for the Achilles injury and maybe how that was handled by the team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Conspiracy Bill is here. I'm just asking. I have no inside information. Please don't aggregate this. I just always thought it was a little weird. He hurt his calf, came back and blew out his Achilles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
it's risky to make a trade when you're doing really well to just mess with the chemistry and the vibes of what you have. But going back to the Boston thing, like I'm looking at Hunter's last season. Cause I remember him just playing well against the Celtics, my favorite team. And they had, they played them four times last year in the regular season and he was good in three of the games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I wonder what the people think on the chat. I'm going to look in the chat for this. Oh man, that really got the chat going. People want a 90 minute conspiracy bill. So maybe I just put it on the hood every time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
It's out of control. We're saving all Luka Laker stuff for part two. We're on trade deadline watch. We have Cody Zeller and Houston's 2028 second round pick going to the Rockets so Atlanta can get under the luxury tax. Oh, sources tell Freep Sports that Dennis Schroeder will end up with the Pistons as part of the massive Jimmy Butler deal. Fund the Pistons. I'm just getting a little frisky.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Could I get the sixth seed? I have an awesome player. I have a team that is tough and likes playing with each other and gets a little aggro in some of these games. I have the scariest guy in the league in Beef Stew.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Oh, here's a fun one. In the Bogdanovich trade, the Clippers got three second round picks back, including their own pick. We're trading so many second round picks. Teams are now reacquiring their own picks. You don't love any pick like your own pick. We finally got it back. They should do the welcome home jumbo jump.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I don't know. Like these teams love trading these picks. Then they can just put like they've acquired four third round picks and a second round picks. More bites at the apple, Bill. Um, So if we say the Lakers things for part two, what else jumped from the trade deadline for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Of course not. That's a very mature version of us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I'm okay with it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I thought it was like, the more I stared at it, it was like 62 cents on the dollar for what they paid. I can't believe... Sohan or Vassell were not in the trade. And I don't know What the Bulls, the more I stared at the Bulls part of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Um, and then they played in the playoffs. I can't remember what he did against playoffs, but, um, I don't know. I'm sure they're trying to figure out Tatum and Brown, that's the mountain. Who's out there that's had some success against those guys? And then they're studying these hunter things. I just don't really understand it from a hawk's perspective.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Every time they make a trade, you're always like, wait, what are they getting? And it just seems like now it's like, cool, we get Zach Collins for two years. And like, I just don't get them at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Do we know that better deals were available earlier than this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah. I think Golden State was trying to get him. before they went down the Butler Road. But I think that was sitting there. I thought he was the sneaky trade piece of this whole thing. His contract's bad, but it's not that bad. It's this year, next year, and then it's an expiring. He was playing great. I think I'd said this before, but he plays well against good teams, which I think matters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And I don't know what to make of that Sacramento team. We talked about it earlier, but I just... You can tell me they're going to win 10 of their next 12. You can tell me they're going to lose 12 in a row. It's a weird team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
A wise GM told me once, you always want to have six or seven dumb teams that you can trade with at any time in a 30-team league. Sacramento has just always managed to be one of those teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Kahn's running a team in France right now. We have 12 minutes left in the deadline. And so far, we're in Cody Zauer, Dennis Schroeder land.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
But you have Nick Claxton and Cam Johnson still sitting there. The Nets, are they trying to stink or not stink?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Like, because they don't have their first round pick unless it's like, what is it, like top 10 protected? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So Denver is my number one. I don't know what apron Denver's in, but they seem perfectly content to stay in that apron and not do anything. I was even wondering, like when Middleton got moved to Washington, would they try to make a move with Porter?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
and use that Middleton contract, get one other, try to do like a three for one, something like that, and maybe jump on the chance to dump Porter somewhere. But Porter's actually been playing pretty well lately.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So it seems like he's there. Murray, they're already all in on. Jokic obviously isn't going anywhere. Gordon, they extended. And they just don't really have the flexibility. But if they do like the Zeke Nagy with Sarich, some swaps, second, third, and fourth round picks, and just, I don't know, what could you get for that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
A couple YouTube chat questions as we wait for a trade. Daniel wants to know if we can discuss Butler's jersey retirement in Miami and whether that would happen. Who's retired over there? I'm already on the record.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
After Vince Carter's number got retired in New Jersey and Toronto, I think everyone is eligible now. Yeah. Especially Vince in Toronto. If that can happen, I'm fully prepared for Jimmy Butler in Miami. I think that should happen, but we'll see. It'll probably be after Pat Riley's dead. Maybe like 15 years from now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah. Russell Martin says Sacramento turning into the Bulls is so sad. This is disrespectful to Damanis Sabonis. It's not. They're better than the Bulls. They're the Bulls with Damanis Sabonis. Yeah. That's a meaningful difference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
A couple people are asking about KD. Katie to the Spurs? Katie to the Grizzlies? Katie to the Rockets?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
What's the most interesting of those three?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I was wondering how you were going to make this insulting for a second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
In the two out of every five games when Ja doesn't play for some reason. Is Ja not playing today? No, he's got bronchitis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
But they're being very cautious. Should I be surprised when I put the Grizzlies on league pass and it's like, here's John Moran. He's playing tonight. He's like him and Joel Embiid. I can't believe you're on my TV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
agenda is strong. My biggest regret is not voting for him as an all-star starter. I didn't have the balls. I wasn't strong enough And then Rosillo, of course, did it. And then I was super jealous of it. Because when you watch him, there's definitely an aggro Jaron Jackson this year. Especially in crunch time. They'll run offense like Bam out of bio style.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
He'll bring the ball over midcourt and be telling people where to go. Drive at people too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So if the Rockets traded... I'm trying to think what the KD trade would be, but I think Van Vliet would have to be in it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Because they can't trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
If it was like Van Vliet, Terry Eason... a bunch of picks and Phoenix just gets a reboot and then they get out from under, you know, the money stuff next year. I just, I wouldn't do, I'm not wavering from my, I wouldn't do anything if I'm the Rockets this year because I don't think they're winning the title. And I want to, I want to move into the summer and make a move with Jalen Green or Shingun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Come on, you're adding years to him. He's like 36, 35. Mahoney, where do you stand on KD right now as an impact guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I was actually looking at this. I did a little, I actually did some homework for this pod because it's my job. I was looking at KD this year versus KD career. So his last 15 years from 2010 to this year, he's 28 a game. This year he's 27. He was seven rebounds for those 15 years. He's six this year. He's five assists. He's four this year. For those 15 years, 51%. He's 52 this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
39% for three, 40 this year. 7.6 free throw attempts for those 15 years. 6.1 this year. Yep. He's 91% of what he normally is. And the only slippage I really see is when I watch because he just looks a little creakier, stiffer than he used to be. He used to be like such a... One of the smoothest players in the league. He was so smooth. He's not... He's still smooth, but he's not like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Is there anything else you've noticed?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
The Grizzlies trading Marcus Smart and a 25 first round pick to the Wizards in a multi-team trade that sends a couple second round picks to Memphis. Memphis creates roster flexibility and cap stuff with the move. We also have Sean saying Kevin Porter Jr. to the Bucs for Mahjong Bo Champ.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I've gone to a couple of Kevin Porter games where you watch and you're like, this guy's pretty good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Can we talk about the smart thing though? So they trade smart, two first round picks. They trade two first-round picks. Basically, Porzingis for Smart is the trade, right? And Smart shows up and he's been banged up the entire time, which I think is... I tried to say this delicately when the trade happened. I think the Celtics felt like this car has a lot of miles on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Let's sell a year too high than a year too late. And I wonder, because he's been expiring this year or next year? Can't remember. Let's find out. But he still feels like a playoff guy for me. And I remember the Lakers tried to get him a year ago. And I wonder if that ends up being a Laker possibility would be my guess. I'll find out as you guys talk. Marcus Smart, anything left in the tank?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So I just looked it up. That pick's on protected that the Spurs have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Yeah, I don't know what's left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So, yeah, with Marcus, whether there's anything left in the tank or not, as somebody who watched a lot of his career, most of his games that he played, just that style of play, you're just not aging nicely. All the fucking abuse that his body took, all the charges he took, all the big guys he had to go against, and... I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I just want to get to the world where he's retired and he's the lead analyst with Drew Carter on Celtic Games. Maybe with Scal. We can keep Scal. But I think Marcus Smart will be an incredible... post-career local Celtic guy would be my hope.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So it's not, you can't even call it a tank trade because what are they tanking for to give San Antonio a better pick? Yeah. And by the way, that pick... The Darren Fox thing, the more I think about it, unconscionable that Sacramento doesn't get that pick. They get two picks and they get this flimsy Charlotte pick that really turns into two seconds. Not real. You watched Darren Fox last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
So they did that weird thing with LaRavia where they didn't extend his option. So he was a free agent after the year. And then he started playing really well. And they kind of fucked it up. So the Kings got LaRavia.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I like him. I was hoping the Celtics would get him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I wonder if there's... Now I'm starting to wonder if there's some KD potential.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
But that awesome two games with Booker where they scored like 90 points each game together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Hey guys, we have to end part one of the podcast, but we're staying on YouTube. Don't leave. We're just ending part one of the podcast, which will go up pretty shortly. All right, that's it for part one of the BS podcast. Remember, part two is coming pretty soon, right after the trade deadline. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, Gahow. and Saruti for producing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
As always, you can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. See you for part two. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I'm just not trading him unless I get that Atlanta pick. Especially after Jalen Johnson goes out. It's like that might be... You know, somewhere between 7 and 10. You're giving me that pick if I'm trading De'Aaron Fox. Somehow San Antonio keeps it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
But then you see what happened last night and you're like, this is why you get Darren Fox.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
You have this guy who's this really special, potentially generational player. He's in year two. We've seen the timetable of some of these guys goes way faster than we expect. Yeah. Now you had Fox. So Hunter, it was the 2023 playoffs when he played Boston and he basically put up 17 and six, 37%. But, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
I always felt like, I'm not saying he shut down Tatum or Brown or anything like that, but I always felt like it's the 6'8 guys that are the guys that you want against us. So from a Cleveland standpoint, I just wonder if that game changed their mindset at all. But I like the trade from them. Big picture. So Butler happens yesterday, not quite worthy of an emergency trade. emergency trade pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Who thought about it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Well, Tuesday night when it seemed like Durant might go to the Warriors and it was a three teamer with Butler going to Phoenix and whatever going to, that was emergency trade worthy. I was ready for that one. Yesterday with Butler after he sulked for four months and didn't want to go to Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And then it was like, well, can we frame it as it's a two year extension, but it's really a one year extension because he was already in a contract. So you made an extra, I don't know, 61 million bucks, maybe 69 million bucks, whatever it is, to basically torpedo this Miami situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Would you do that for $69 million was? Would you just completely torpedo a situation to Miami? So probably, yes, he would do it for less.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
How about six point nine million dollars?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Can I give you can I do a performance theater of how the Miami Phoenix trade talks went? We would love it. Just every couple of days. What about Beal for Butler? No, Durant we would do. Okay, we'll call you back three days later. Hey, Beal maybe for Butler? No, Durant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
And I think it just went on and on. And every time Miami's like, no, Durant. We're not taking Bradley Beal. Nobody wants Bradley Beal. And then they're telling Butler, no. we're not taking Bradley Beal. And Butler's like, well, I'm gonna act like even a bigger dick. Like, fine. We can just keep doing this. We're not trading you for Bradley Beal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Before Sunset.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Without the no trade clause, is he more tradable to you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Because you think you get him this season, you have him next season, you can trade him as an expiring. But with the no trade, you're stuck with him for three years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
You honestly cannot. One of my many hot takes of this two-part Trade Deadline podcast I think Bradley Beal's playing kind of well for the Suns. Have you watched him lately? Like he's actually playing defense and he's playing hard and seems dedicated. He's been trying. But I just don't want to pay him $50 million. It's not like he's a disaster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
What do we say when they made the trade? We were like, this is stupid. This is too much money. Why are you doing this? We said it when Washington gave him the contract in the first place. Why are you doing this? This is too much money. Why'd you put the no trade clause in? This was a comedy of errors. And now Phoenix. So they made a trade. They did. They finally dumped Nurkic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Um, Nurkic, they used one of those three picks they got from that stupid trade they made with the 2031 first that they gave up that they're going to regret. And they got back. What was it? One of the Martins. They got back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
Moves around every year. Yeah. Uh, they got back a couple seconds cause everyone loves seconds now. Sure. Got to get those seconds. Get that 1 in 20 chance you might have gotten a player. It looks good in the tweet. 1 in 18 chance we maybe got a rotation guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
The sons are like somebody who remodeled their whole house and then built like a giant movie theater in the house. And then six months later, we're like, why did we do this movie theater? We should have done, bring the contractor back. We've got to change that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
That was the Nurkic, whatever that complicated DeAndre Ayton trade where they're like, we got to get out of the Chris Paul business. If we turn him and DeAndre Ayton into Nurkic and Beal and we do all these swaps that kill all of our leverage, we'll be fine. And then six months later, they're like, oh, fuck. Now what do we do? And they're just constantly working in their house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre
and they've just destroyed their house. Their house has no value left. They paid $10 million and put in $10 million for a house that's now worth $7 million.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know, I trust Joe House on hoops if he's actually watching as much as anyone in my life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this has been the case since the late 80s. And I think he was more afraid of the bust potential with Sar than anybody. And he's been saying all year, like, he likes them. Doesn't, isn't positive what he is ultimately, but there's definitely, uh, some Ibaka stuff in there and he's not afraid to shoot and his stroke's pretty good. And you can kind of see what he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
We were doing goodwill hunting for everybody coming to that, uh, to that live show. We did goodwill hunting, I think in the first two years of the pod, but way more categories. Plus we got Rosilla this time, perfect movie to do in Boston. And then we're going to have a Coolidge corner, uh, Film Festival, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Check out theringer.com slash events.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like he was drafted as a stretch five. If they were lucky enough to get flag in the draft, you put him like SAR would be the ideal guy to put flag next to, I would say, um, with those two together. So it feels like they have something. All right. So you'd go SAR three, Buzellus four, and I would go Buzellus three, SAR four. It sounds like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Well, I thought the guy we haven't mentioned yet is McCain, who got hurt and was looking like the most ready rookie and is only, I don't even know if he's 20 yet. But I think from what we saw from McCain before he got hurt, I might take him above Reed. Because I know Reed's not playing and I know it's not his fault.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I know it's probably not a great situation for him, but I also think it's weird that he's not playing. I thought it's not like Houston does need him. And they had a stretch where Van Vliet was out for a few weeks and he still wasn't really playing. And I, maybe he's just a guy that needs big minutes and isn't capable of coming off the bench and playing 15.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But I promise you, they thought they were getting a little more from him this year than this with the shooting, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. You're not playing defense nearly at the level I want to be at. So you're just not going to play. Sorry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I'm saying it more from I just loved what McCain was doing when he was playing. I see what he is. He's a combo guard. So you would take him fifth. You might be right, by the way. I don't know if either of us are necessarily even right, but I think I would take him right now over Reed. But I think it's close.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then after that, we move into this, you know, you got Bub Carrington, you got Jalen Wells, the kid on Memphis. Edie's still there. Ware's still around. Eve's Meecy. Yeah, Meecy on New Orleans. Ron Holland, the fight starter. And then Klingon. I think would be the kind of the next group. And then it becomes a question of what do you like? Quentin Post. Quentin Post. Shannon's out there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
There's still some tickets left, I think, for some of the theater, for some of the movie stuff. Me and Sean and Chris are going to be there probably talking after a couple of the movies. So there you go. Coolidge Corner all weekend. I don't think there's going to be a live show with me and Rosillo on Sunday night in Boston. I think we're just going to do the pod regularly. We'll see, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's a weird, fun draft. But I think if we're looking at who has the best chance to be really good coming out of this draft, I think we hit the top six, right? Is there anybody else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You could see it last night. He's great at alley-oops, kind of knows where to go and what to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, he's definitely, I would say, you know, like he's after wear. There was a three-week stretch where it seemed idiotic that Miami didn't take connect and that they took wear over him. And now I think, you know, it's also not like Miami's playing well. The one that's, I think, the most polarizing with different people I've talked to is Klingon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
whether this is just kind of who he is, a guy who can block some shots, who's a little slow, doesn't really have any offense or whether this is somebody that could potentially be the anchor of a really good team. And I think the fact that he's getting actual minutes for them and they've been a good basketball team for, you know, two plus months here and really competitive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I, I think he's a piece and feel the same way about Edie. I don't know if they're ever, uh, you know, one of the four best guys on an awesome team? Probably not. But could they be in an eight-man rotation on a really good team? I think they could.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Well, it's tough when you're playing with Denny and Denny all of a sudden turns into Larry Bird. In the last six weeks when he looks like he's doing an 85 bird impersonation. It's unbelievable how good he is. Even he's saying like, I've never played this well in my life. I don't know what's happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. I just assume he's that point. Yeah. Right. If you see him, it's like a bonus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You never know. Could there be a last second live show? Maybe. Anyway, we're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where they have these player performance doubles, two-leg parlays made for you specifically. Take an NBA player prop, like Luka's going to score 30, the Lakers are going to win. And they have a ringer player boost token. on these, placed on any of the games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And so really it's a six and then it's kind of a, let's see, depends on who you like, but we should talk about Ron Holland for a split second, who was the fifth pick in the draft. Yeah. He is still 19 years old. He carries himself like he's 32. They throw him out there. He plays real minutes every game. Sometimes he's pretty good. Sometimes he'll make some shots. He's physical.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
He's a little early era, and I don't mean this in a melee standpoint, Ron Artest-ish. Actually, it reminds me of Ron Artest. Hopefully, he won't go charging into row three at some point in his career. But they took him pretty high, and I'm not against it. They took him fifth overall. We don't have him in our top six, but I wouldn't rule him out. Would you? We'll say he's 19.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
He's definitely going to be going into the other bench for the bench-clearing bra. He'll be the first guy behind him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, I would have said eight a game. Yeah, he was 31% from three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't remember playing that. I didn't have league pass that year, so I can't say the 2000 Bulls were on my TV a lot that year. And he couldn't shoot either. Same size. He reminds me of him a little bit. Any Bub Carrington thoughts before we move on? Yeah, I like Bub a lot. Kaishan George?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
50-second pick. Collier. Had a couple moments on Utah. He was like averaging seven, eight assists a game for like a month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And it's good if you hit them. And there's a lot of good games on Tuesday, including Dallas and the Knicks and Golden State Miami. So stay tuned. I'm going to tweet out my pick on Tuesday. Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. This Tuesday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's just a pickup game that never ends with the Utah Jazz. Just 15 guys not knowing if they're getting run. Who knows? We'll see how long Will Hardy enjoys that. And Dillingham just doesn't play. Shannon Jr. had some fun moments when people were out, and then Talk to me about your Charlotte guy that you loved. Salon? It's kind of a mess. But you were expecting that? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
In retrospect, six might have been a whiff too high for him. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know when he's out there is not a compliment. Oh, I think it is. I think Buzella's falling to 11. is probably like looking back at the draft, who knows with all these dudes, they're all like babies basically. But that's the one that I think is going to seem weird down the road. McCain, whatever. We knew that McCain was falling too far as it was happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But Bezelis, like a team like Charlotte, that would have been a really nice pick for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So coming up, the original plan for this podcast was we're going to do two thirds of a podcast and then put the topper after OKC Clippers tonight. So what happened? We started taping at 1045 a.m. Pacific time and we just kept going for two hours and we just had a full podcast. So we're just going to put it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's really like that team is like, if I move, I might get the ball. God, you love the Bulls. I did. I really did. I thought... Look, it was the perfect opponent for them. But I've liked that. I mean, what have they won? Like seven of the last nine? They've been on my radar for a couple of weeks here because I've been trying to figure out playing stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I've been scouting some teams, watching Miami just on the cruise ship to hell and just thinking like, could any, watching Atlanta a little bit, could anybody, you know, emerge and be a possible seventh seed in a team that's playing the Celtics? And I think if the Bulls got the seventh seed and played the Celtics, the Celtics would beat them. But that's not a fun series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And those guys will be run and gun, go, go, go the whole time. You're nuts. I don't love it. You're nuts. I'm just saying it's not a fun series. I'm not saying the Celtics would lose. I just, I don't like playing teams with gimmicks that are really confident in their gimmick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I know. What are they? Like eight of their last 10, seven of their last nine, something like that. I mean, they traded Levine. And they're playing better now. Yeah. By the way, your guy, your guy who you sold your stock on a couple of years ago, Red Velvet, called the broker and like, just unload it. Just get rid of it. Did I? Yeah. Just get rid of it. I don't want it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Maybe you're still in. I don't know. In my head, you sold it. I don't remember. I certainly haven't heard you talking about him that much. But Red Velvet, Red Velvet seemed a little back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Six white guys started the game last night. Six of the 10. My wife just, cause I brought my wife and she's like, is this unusual? She was stunned.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I've been telling Van a lot. We're coming back. Flag, we're coming back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Celtic City on HBO and Max, 9 p.m. Monday night. Larry Bird shows up. The early 80s begins and it's awesome. Please check it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thanks again to Workday for sponsoring that segment. I had a good time. Learn more at Workday.com. We're going to take a break and come back with more basketball. Hey, let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that FanDuel has right now. Player performance doubles. We do them on Tuesdays. Two-leg parlays already made for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Let's say you think Luka is going to score 30 and the Lakers are going to win in a game. Well, now you can bet on that because FanDuel will take a player prop add it with that player's team to win. And then on top of it, Fando is giving all customers a profit boost token exclusively for those bets on Tuesday that you can use. Head to Fando.com slash BS and you get your profit boost.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I'm also going to be tweeting my pick on Tuesday. My favorite player slash team prop win matchup, a player performance double. And you can make every moment more with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. Opt-in required. Bonus issue. Profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So I hope nothing absolutely insane happens to OKC and the Clippers in that game tonight that we regret not talking about. But this is how. We landed. It's a very good podcast. It's all coming up next. First, our friends from ProJab. All right, we staggered this podcast, so this part of the pod we are taping at 11 a.m. PT. We want to do some 2020 sliding doors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA finals. One of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level, but all the historical legacy stuff. It's my favorite. You've heard me talk about it on the podcast many times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Speaking of finals, Michelob Ultra has given me the chance Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I also wanted to tell you about the Bulls-Lakers game I went to last night. Did you happen to see any minutes of that game? Yeah, I watched the entire second half. So the Bulls, first of all, are turning into a very belatedly fun end-of-the-season league pass team because they kind of know who they are, and they play really fast, and they have two good guards that attack, attack, attack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And you could tell pretty early this wasn't going to be the Lakers' night with the way how hard the Bulls were playing and how much they were attacking the rim. They're out setting threes. Yeah. It did make me wonder if there was a little bit of a blueprint in there to beat this Lakers team with go, go, go, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep attacking. They don't really have a rim protector.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
,,,,,, I guess if you took them one at a time, that kind of made sense. But the points they gave up, they gave up one-third to the Clippers, 123 to the Kings, and 123 to the Suns. And that is not good, Russillo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Throw it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They don't really want to run up and down. They want to slow things down. And I was trying to think of anyone else in the West That could basically replicate that. And it's obviously OKC. And it may be last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And that's a guy that you would think the Cavs would be pretty well equipped to face. By the way, we should mention we're recording all this before they play Utah today and they might be able to get back on the horse. I was alarmed by a different thing in that Suns game that if you're just projecting, what does the streak mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then what does it mean going forward when they play Boston, whenever they play Boston? They couldn't stop Durant. They couldn't stop them. And as a Celtics fan, when I look at the Cavs and think of how the matchups could favor the Cavs, how the matchups could favor Boston, ultimately it comes down to Tatum. Can they slow down Tatum? Can they stop him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
A big 6'9", point forward who has the ball, and that's why they traded for DeAndre Hunter. That's why they have to play a Coro, even though they probably don't love playing the minutes they have. But that's why Strews becomes an issue when it's a bigger team with wings like what Boston has. I watched that game. I'm like Durant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That was the, I thought that was the best game I've seen him play all year. And he was really, really engaged. I think he took 29 shots. He was like 17 for 29. But if you're Boston, you watch that game and you're like, this is, this is the Tatum window in a series with these guys. Can they stop them? I don't know if they can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I don't know if it's overreaction or not, but last night made me really think like I think I think they would be in a heap of trouble in an OKC series with the athletes and the speed. And I'm not positive they can match it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No. Well, the other thing is you can kind of find your matchup, the matchup that you want against them. And you can do that against any team in the league. And they do, you know, if they have those two guards out there, you're going to try to hunt one of them. Certain teams like hunting Allen and bringing him out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I think one of the issues I have with the Cavs, and I don't even know if it's an issue because it'll probably solve itself, but I'm still not positive what their best five is. especially against different matchups and it might not matter, but I think they need Hunter to be that fifth guy. And he just hasn't been in a lot of big games. You know, and we talked about this last week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
He had that huge shot in the corner against Orlando and he had to sign the backboard with it. You know, if you're guarding Kevin Durant or Jason Tatum and Hunter has to be the guy, he doesn't have a shitload of reps. I really liked that trade for them, but, um, I guess the good thing for them is the schedule is about to get easier. Utah. Well at Portland's not easy anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
San Antonio home at Detroit. And then they're mostly home the rest of the way. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Struis would be the other guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
This mattered. Really good teams, I don't think, lose four games in a row and they have real stakes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think it matters. Can I make the case?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, you can't. Well, here's the case. They have the one seed sewn up. No. They had a two-game lead on OKC for home court in the finals. And home court in the finals matters more than it ever has now because we went back to the 2-2, 1-1-1. So they had this in their grasp. And I also think one of the reasons I like them is they've been so consistent and so good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And after a while, you go, look, man, the numbers are the numbers. This is the best three-point shooting team in the league. They're awesome defensively. They're able to hold their own against all these good players. And then they just get smoked defensively. in those last three, especially Orlando throwaway, that's a weird game. You know, you're on Sunday, it's early.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You think you're going to extend the streak right before you go on the road. But the other ones, they had real trouble against Kawhi and DeRozan and Durant in back to back to back. That's a real thing that I think is going to ultimately, if you're the Celtics and even if you're the Knicks, you're looking at that and you're like, Hey, this is good for us. The Knicks? Come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
If the Knicks beat the Celtics, I'm sorry. I didn't want to leave them out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Do I think the Knicks are going to be in round three? No, I don't. I think Boston's going to beat them. I just didn't want to leave them out because we have New York listeners trying to cater.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I think that matters in that combo. They have done it yet because that was a really competitive, awesome series. So you can't say they've never been in a situation like that. Okay, so we agree. You at least have to point to that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know who doesn't need seasoning? Shea. I think we're good. I don't think there's a playoff scenario where he can't get every fucking shot he wants in a series. And Chet is the one you'd worry about in a series like this. But Chet got his ass kicked in that Dallas series. And if that didn't make him, he came back bigger, stronger. Hartenstein had a bunch of playoff stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Like, really, the only one that worries me for real is Jalen Williams just because he's going to have the ball a lot. And what did he learn from that Dallas series? Because it's going to happen again. They're going to just send the two guys at Shea. They're going to make Jalen Williams have the ball all the time. Or Isaiah Joe or whoever it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They kept him in near the end. We were driving home and they were like, they're keeping Giddey in in case he can get two more steals. I was like, whoa. Giddey was incredible. And by the way, let's take a victory lap. We were like the only two people in America who liked that trade for the Bulls last summer. So I'm victory lapping that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
How are those guys going to function when they're just like, hey, look, Shea's not beating us in this game. We'll play four on three against you guys. Go ahead, knock yourselves out. And who's going to step up? And that's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Right. Cause now we're playing four on three. So good at the foul line in that four on three situation. It is like the all time. That signing was incredible. We got to take a break and then we're doing slide indoors. All right, gimmick we almost did last week, and then we got so caught up with other stuff we forgot to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
We're calling it 2020's sliding doors, the biggest what-ifs of the half-decade, because it is the half-decade now. Five years ago was COVID.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Rocky start doing better. Um, and I asked you to write down the biggest, what ifs for you from this decade? I wrote down my own list. I'm sure we have a lot of the same stuff. Um, we are not doing this draft style. We're just doing like, we can just go back and forth. The biggest things we've seen. What's, what's the biggest sliding door? What if for you in this first five years of this decade?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I have a bunch too. I'm ready. I'm ready for however you want to do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Oh, wow. That's a great one. Yeah. Was that in the mix?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I mean, I'm just saying, but when that happened, I'm trying to remember when during that draft, were we wondering if, yeah, you're right. We were wondering if they would go two or three with that. Oh shit. I just blew your mind.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And by the way, I have the people scouting tracks for the scoot victory lap near the end of the season. And improbable, I'd given up, but we both never sold our stock. And now I'm ready to run around the track and wave to our fans. I'm not ready for that one yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
On that pick, though, they traded for the pick because that was an OKC pick, right? And OKC got out of 16. traded it to Houston and got these two like super conditional first round picks that I don't even think have really turned in anything. So they definitely traded up for Shangoon. The question is, do you do that if you also have Mobley? I don't think so.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That would have been an amazing combo. All right. So you're saying if they draft Mobley, no Jalen Green and no Shingun already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I did all the legwork on this. And those firsts were kind of those conditional rollover, rollover, rollover. And I don't think it's one of the weird Presti moves where it's like, why don't you just take certain good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Well, basketball reference will have that. It has that trade pocket at the bottom of the guy's pages and you read the trades and you're like, wait. Dude, it's my homepage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
The answer is definitely yes, because part of the reason they did that Mitchell trade was they were like, we feel like we've hit a home run with Evan Mobley. Now we're going to get it. We've sped up our timeline now. Let's fucking go for this because we think Mobley's that good. You're not doing that if you have Jalen Green. I don't think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
For what they gave up with marking in and five firsts and all the other shit and the Kessler. I mean, that trade was expansive. They did it because they love Mobley. I don't think it was that many firsts. It was three firsts and two swaps, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, I don't think they do it. So now we've altered the destinies of Cleveland, Houston, and Utah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
All right, that's a really good one. Great start. Here's my number one. It's an injury one, which I don't usually love for what ifs, but Murray tearing his ACL when he did Like to me, the ultimate what if sliding door thing is the title shift, right? This is one where he tears his ACL and it's right after the COVID when they started it. It's after the bubble. They start the season late.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It sounds like a victory left for both of us anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So he tears his ACL.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Murray tears his ACL on April 12th, 2021. Like a little bit before the playoffs. So he misses the 21 and the 22 playoffs. The Suns ends up making it in 2021 with a team that looking back is like, wow. Not only was that team pretty awesome, but that team came really close to winning the finals. But now I look at that team and it's like, would this team be like a five seed in the West?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then Golden State makes it in 2022 because Murray doesn't come back in time. And that's the one where if you're Denver, I mean, Denver ends up winning it in 23. I think Denver, if they have healthy Murray the whole time, I just would have them over that Golden State team. It's great. It is. Steph was because you had Clay at a weird point in his career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Draymond was at a weird point in his career. I just think Denver would have been better. But you think they would have won back-to-backs? No, I think they would have won 22, and then I don't know what happens in 23.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. No, because Miami beat them in 23. They didn't even get to the finals. I don't know how it goes. no matter how you want to do it. But I just think they would have won the title sooner than that. It's the only injury we'll talk about. I know the net sliding doors will probably come up during this, but this is the only one where
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I'm really confident that the 21 or 22 finals would have played out differently in some way. So I think this was the biggest injury. The honest sprained ankle in 2020, I think was a really underrated sprain injury when he got hurt in game four against Miami. And then Miami ends up going all the way through, through the bubble. I think you could argue that could have been Milwaukee that year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then Kyrie and Harden going down in 21, I think. I think those are the three biggest injuries where you could say the title probably swung because this happened or almost probably swung. So I would have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Whole time. Even during that Memphis series. And then the Celtics, when they lost the first game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They were up 3-1. I don't know. It was like, wow, this is what we're... One of these teams is probably making the finals. It was a weird time for the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Because of that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think if we were doing which best player in the playoffs do you trust the least, Ja would be the number one pick in that draft. I just don't. What am I getting from him? How many games is he going to play? Is he going to play seven games in a row? I just don't. I don't trust that because I haven't seen it. And I also don't think like. I don't think you're wrong on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think in a playoff series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
At least I know Harden would play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
James Harden is a new man in year 19, year 17.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
That's another one. So I think jazz in that thing too. That's a good draft. You should do that with somebody like you next week. All right. Um, talk about a few games. I'm going to do a second sliding doors. And then I'll throw it back to you because it's tied into the injury thing with Murray.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think they win in 22. Yeah. Because Jokic was that good by then. And their supporting cast was good. I think they would have been the best team. Which ties into the other one. It's kind of a 1A, 1B. The what if the 2021 Nets don't break down is a great one. Because they had that Celtics series where they looked like they might have a chance to be the greatest offensive team of all time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And they're actually playing well together. And then I think Kyrie got hurt. Kyrie sprained his ankle. Harden hurt his hamstring. Tried to keep playing. There's so many... And then they end up losing because KD steps on the line. But... You know, Milwaukee barely beats them getting incredible injury luck and they still barely win. It takes them overtime game seven to beat them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So then you got all the, if those guys don't get hurt, does Giannis ever make a finals? Do the Nets actually win the title? How do we talk about Kevin Durant now? Are those guys all still together? Do we talk about Harden? Like you just mentioned Harden five minutes ago. Well, what if they won the finals that year? How do we talk about him? How do we talk about Kyrie? Who gets traded?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Does Kyrie even end up on Dallas? Does Harden end up on two more teams? Does KD end up on Phoenix? It's like that is one of those, when you talk about sliding doors, There's an alternate universe. And Zach Lowe always used to call them the greatest hypothetical team. There's an alternate universe where we talk about that team, like they're the 99 Rams. We're like, oh my God, remember that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Those guys. And then they scored 130 a game and went 14 and 16 and two in the playoffs. Jesus Christ. But didn't happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming up because it is still sports movie month. So we did Blue Chips. It was me and Bain Lathan and Chris Ryan. And the reason we did it was because we did it like in 2017. We didn't even have the categories yet. So we decided March Madness. Let's just go. Let's bring this baby back. So much fun to talk about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I honestly Giannis cause I don't think there's a path for him. Otherwise I think that was their one best chance to win. And if he doesn't win there, he starts to move into that Barkley area. And it becomes the dominant theme with him for the last couple of years, even before the Dame trade. We're like, whoa, is Giannis ever, is he ever going to make the finals? How good can he be?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
We're just doing that for three years. And not like he'd give a shit. He's not even from America. He doesn't understand how stupid half the shit is that we obsess over. But I just think that I think he would have been the guy for this decade. I don't know. How good is he? Giannis and Jokic both took that off the table.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Luca at least made the finals last year, but Luca, you know, if it doesn't happen for the Lakers for a couple of years, we'll be doing with him, but this is what we do. It's a, it's a, you, it's a, you guys, I don't feel like we're in the, you guys on this as much, but I know it is though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think for Giannis, it would be... Because you think Jokic has the chance to be one of the 10 best players of all time, whereas Giannis is in that 10 to 20 range probably.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Plays his fucking ass off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Two bad luck injuries with him too in the playoffs, like at the wrong times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Are people actually doing that? Cause I remember him just being this incredibly sympathetic figure, basically, you know, cause Glenn Taylor, he lost all those picks and the Joe Smith thing, Marbury left. And then it was just like, his supporting cast was so bad. At least the stuff I was writing back then was like, we got to rescue this guy from Minnesota almost became the narrative.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Well, that's the thing. But I do think there's people in the NBA, and I've certainly considered the case, that if you're going to beat OKC, it would have to be with a pretty weird, different type of team that has a lot of... You know, guys who have been in big situations and then a big physical hard team to play with multiple scoring options would be the case for LA against OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Giannis, I think has had more help than KG did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Right, they got one really good Cassell year and it felt like a miracle. It's like, oh my God, their point guard's averaging 17 and 8.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, I can tell you, Giannis is, we're talking about the Hakeem, Shaq, Moses kind of area. Right. And where do you think Jokic is? Jokic is on like the bird and magic suite, like knocking on the door now. Like I am the natural legacy to you guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know, I think I would have Steph's fourth ring over all of them. I think it vaulted him into a completely different area. No kidding.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I do, because those guys still have a chance to win another one. And Steph didn't. And Steph, there always would have been a little asterisk next to him. And all it did was put him right with Kobe and West and right in that group. And he's probably leading the way in that group. I mean, you can never say, oh, the first one, LeBron, all his teammates got hurt in 15.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then the next two, you had Durant. That's why he won. There was always a yeah, but with him and the yeah, buts were gone. We talked about it when it happened. Giannis, MVP voting since 19, 1-1-4-3-3-4. And he's going to be three or four this year, probably four. Seven straight years in the top four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I did not, but I liked your reasoning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
OKC hasn't been there. LA is not going to be afraid to be on the road. What I saw last night, you can really use the defaults of Luka and 40-year-old LeBron against them. And LeBron actually was trying harder than Luka and he was trying to chase down blocks. Luka, he can get carried away with the refs. I thought LeBron looked great last night physically. He looked fast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think I still, if I had to do MVP right now, I would still put Tatum three and Giannis four because I just think what Tatum has done this year has been incredible. being point forward, guarding five positions, being the best rebounder in the team and having more team success.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't, I don't know what else you would want, you know, and Giannis is having the same 30, 12 and six that he has every year. And, you know, it's some of the same stuff with him down the stretch of games, the way teams play him. I, I think he's, I don't want to say hard to play with, but you kind of have to tailor the team to what he can and can't do. And he's really a center.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And if you just think of him as a perimeter center, it probably makes more sense. But I just think Tatum's been slightly better this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I was talking to a Knicks fan yesterday. Who do you not want to see in the three spot if it's between Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana? Who's the not, I don't want to see that team? And the case for Milwaukee is I just don't want to see Giannis for two weeks. How is that even a conversation? Well, because those are the three choices.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Obviously, Detroit, you'd want to see the most because it's Cade and a bunch of guys that have been there. But Indiana is a team that plays really well against them, that pressures them. They have those guards that just pressure full time. They have a ton of confidence against them. They're deep. And Milwaukee is kind of a messed up team. Like they're not that good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I wouldn't want to play the Pacers. Pacers are number one for me. I'd rather, I'd rather take my chances with this Bucks team and Kuzma and some of the bench dudes. And I, you know what, let's give Giannis is 30 and 12 every night. We're still beating these guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Well, and they're also going to, they're going to really pressure Brunson who's coming off an injury. They're going to make him dribble for 90 feet. Every time it's going to foul him 30 times. We're going to hack them. We're going to talk shit. I would not want to see them. Let's take a, let's take a break and then we'll finish sliding doors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
All right, what do you have for your next sliding doors?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No question. I thought he looked great. And was playing hard. But yeah, I think if you keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, they're going to start to bend a little bit because they don't want to play that way. And the other thing they did was they pressured Luka, which I don't understand why teams don't do this against the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't understand why they don't do it against Boston with Tatum. Anybody that has a non-point guard dribbling the ball up, I don't understand why it's not 80 feet of pressure. Giddy was in and around Luka all night. Luka was just getting more and more pissed. Finally got a technical. He must have shoved them three or four times. They were talking shit during the free throws.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And that's another way to get at this Lakers team is you can really fuck with Luka. He takes everything personally. You can just be like, hey, like think about OKC, like, hey, Lou Dort, just fuck with Luka this whole series. Just stand around him, stand next to him in timeouts. Luka's like a big, can I have my personal space guy? And Giddy was just not having it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
His decade is fucking brutal. Like not doing the Brunson thing, selling the team to these schmucks that trade Luca within a year and then not getting nearly enough for the team. Not to mention all the behind the shit stuff, behind the scenes shit that was going on with that organization. Rough decade for our guy Cubes. And now he's trying to distance himself desperately from the Luca trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And he'll do any interview and talk about how he can't believe. And oh my God, I had no idea. It's like you did sell the team to these dudes. This is your fault. Just like it was Howard Schultz's fault when he sold the Sonics to these fucking dudes from Oklahoma City who were clearly going to move them. Cubans sold the Mavericks to these guys and they obviously don't know what they're doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So I thought, look, they played out of their minds. And as you said, they were making crazy threes. The Bezelis thing is... is a real wrinkle. I don't think that's an overreaction thing. But anyway, I was just thinking like blueprint-wise, athletes-wise, OKC, that's the game they're going to watch. That's the game they're going to show their guys. Like, watch this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And they traded Luka Doncic, which is the most insane thing that's happened in the NBA this century. Other than maybe the Artest melee.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I honestly, I don't want to, I'm not that interested in somebody giving interviews about how they wouldn't have traded Luka Doncic if they still on the team. It's like, well, you sold the team. I want to stay on this. Why'd you sell the team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It was $3.5 billion. It might even have been less.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They own their arena.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's a top eight or nine market in the league. And they had Luka Doncic, who's worth a billion dollars by himself for value. No question. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Nobody who actually was in basketball circles believed that that's how it was going to be played out. And by the way, we're going through the same thing now with Wick and the new owner. Unless that's in writing, that he is going to be the governor for the next three years and that's part of the sale, I don't know if he's going to last two years, one year. We have no idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But see, I want to stay on that because this is exactly where I wanted to go because...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No. He's been a terrific player. I think he's one of the most important NBA owners of the 21st century. He's in the top three. And he had a great first two decades. I'm just saying the stretch here, starting with Brunson to the end, it's really bad for him. It gets mentioned in the first paragraph of... everything about this. And he has to get blamed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, I'm saying what happened in the Mavs over the course to where they are now, where their fan base is in a full revolt with the team. I don't know. He's got to get some blame for that. He does. And don't sell the team to these people who obviously didn't know what they were doing. And then be like, oh, I never would have traded him. I thought you loved the Mavericks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Watch what speed and athleticism and pace can potentially do if we meet this Lakers team. All right, I want to do a special gimmick here and it's going to be brought to you by Workday. Are you a forward thinker? Then you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do. Workday, the AI platform that helps propel your organization, your workforce, and your entire industry forward.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I thought you loved their fans. I thought you loved Luka. That's crazy. That's crazy to say that after the fact. You have to take some blame. I should have vetted these guys better. I wish I hadn't sold the team. He didn't do any of it. He's just been like, oh, I never would have done it. Cool. Guess what? You don't have Luka Doncic anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And he did that trade again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
No, here's what I believe. I think it's very possible, and I don't know for sure, that part of the conditions when they got to the final four were like, we're going to consider the bids or favor the bids that Wick is in there for three years as the governor in the transition. And if you can get to like six billion and you have that in there, you're going to have a better chance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And there might've been some of the other bids that were like, all right, our offer is five, eight, and we take over the team immediately. Um, I just don't know if that's in there or not. And I don't know if this is Cuban 2.0 or like, no, no, he's going to run the team. And then nine months from now, the new guys like, Hey, WIC. I took your courtside seats. So I moved you over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You're going to be in a suite from now on and all this stuff that happened to Cuban. We knew the Cuban thing was done. And I can't remember if we talked about it or not when he wasn't involved with the Western Conference trophy presentation and all that stuff. And then there was stuff that you were hearing during the finals about They wouldn't let him sit. They wouldn't give him the courtsides.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
He was scrambling to sit courtside and the team only gets two. There was just a lot of buzz that, oh, he didn't play this one correctly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They want to own the team. That's why I have no idea where we're going with the Celtics. What was your last sliding door? Because we're almost done with this segment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
into the future. I wish we could use it for the NBA draft in the best possible way, because that's what we're about to talk about. Workday, moving business forward forever. All right, so this is a no prep segment. I did not do prep for it either. I just thought of it last night watching Bozellas, who I really, really, really like. And I was just like, instant right now, blink test, redraft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I'll just rip through really quick. The what if Dame goes to Miami is fun because it has a whole bunch of ramifications. Miami offered Hero, Lowry, and 28 and 31st. Phoenix, if this all happens, Phoenix, the DeAndre Ayton and Kamara for Nurkic and Allen, that trade doesn't happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
But I'm not positive Grayson Allen's in it because that was part of like you know, trying to get Dame and they had to move money off and put Grayson Allen somewhere. Who knows? The Bucks don't lose Drew to the Celtics. They get a 29 first and swaps in 28 and 30. Portland Portland ends up getting, they trade Drew to Boston for Brogdon Williams, a 24 Golden State first and a 29 Boston first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Basically, what I wrote down is every team is worse off except Portland and Boston. The Bucs are worse off with Dame and the fact that it didn't elevate them the way they thought. Even though Dame's been, I think, good this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
High test wise, he's looked really good. Stats are good. Heat are way worse off. Phoenix is worse off. So yeah, it's just a weird one. I think it helped the Celtics win the title as the biggest sliding door from that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think if you do that Dame trade, you then have to do the extension with Jimmy because you can't do all that and then not have a Jimmy relationship.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't think you can... You can't give up all that for Dame and be like, we're trying to win right now. Also, I didn't factor in whatever happened to Bam Adebayo in the last year. What happened? Why isn't he an impactful top 20 guy anymore? Does... If Dame's on that team, is he?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So they're a mess right now. I know they're better. It makes Butler if he's happy and they took care of an extension and they might be a contender. So that's a good one. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. I think they would have taken care of Butler in that scenario. So I feel like it's two guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think they might've thought it was, but you're right. It might've been a Sun situation where the league got way deeper and this recipe you had for a big three didn't make as much sense in 25 as it did now. I think it would've helped them more last year. Also might've helped them get some, some, some buyout dudes and who knows? I think that would add struggle, trouble against Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Let's do a top eight. No prep whatsoever. Just top eight, gut feeling. My one would still be Castle. Would your one still be Castle, or is there anyone in this draft you like more than him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify. You can watch it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well, where we also put up a reaction on the Happy Gilmore 2 trailer that I actually pitched them my idea for the sports movie sequel I want to see the most, and it involves basketball. So you can go check that out on our YouTube channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
A couple more quick ones. What if Fishby doesn't have new owner syndrome? Because he did that KD for Bridges, Cam, Crowder, four firsts and a swap. It also led to the second Beal trade, which saved... He basically saved Washington and saved Brooklyn with those two trades. So that's got to be thrown in there. What if the Udoka scandal never happens? Do the Celtics win in 23?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
What happens to the Rockets? Does any of this even matter? Did it all play out exactly the way it should have played out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
He might be third row Joe. What if Danny just doesn't blow up the Jazz in 22 coming off a 49-33 season? when they lost to Dallas because Luca was hurt half the series, but Brunson went nuts. And it seemed like, what is this? This team's broken. Jalen Brunson just lit them up, but nobody knew he was Jalen Brunson yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then they ended up making those two massive trades to Cleveland and to Minnesota and basically create these new, you know, real contenders. Yeah, totally. For two other teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
What if Golden State takes LaMelo and Franz in those two drafts? Again, stupid. No, it isn't stupid because I wrote it down. No, but I mean, it's like this is like in a draft, you can do this all the time. But it is. There is this alternate universe where they take LaMelo and they take Franz. Did they win the 22 title at that point? Maybe they don't. Are they better now? Maybe they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. It's just a step retire. Steps like I'm done. I'm out. Does LaMelo fit in their system? Do they trade him within a year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I will say, Kamingo over Franz, which I think was argued... Really extensively in Golden State's side. And the whole case for Franz was he's an IQ guy. He's movement. He fits into what we do. That just would have been a better pick for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think they finally realized that the, that they, as long as Steph and Draymond were on the team, hoops IQ had to be the number one thing. Maybe they struggled with that for a couple of years. Two more quick ones. This is just a funny one. What are you saying about Wiseman and Kaminga? What if COVID never happened?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And I went back and I looked at the standings and I remembered, and I actually listened to like 10 minutes of a pod we did that Sunday before COVID of the Lakers finally beat the Clippers. And we did a pod about what does this mean to the Lakers and say, like, but the Clippers had already beaten them twice. But the Lakers, when COVID happens, the Lakers are 49 and 14.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They're number one in the West. The Clippers are 44 and 20. And the Nuggets are 43 and 22. And those are going to be our three teams, basically. Milwaukee was 53 and 12th. And Giannis was about to win his second MVP. And Milwaukee, I just forgot this. Milwaukee was like, that was the big obstacle. That was the one. And then it was like LA versus LA. And then here's Giannis over here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And how is this going to play out? And COVID happens. They come back and Giannis gets hurt in the first round. And that's how Miami jumps in. The Clippers completely fall apart in the bubble. So COVID never happens. I don't know what happens that season, but it's probably Milwaukee or the two LA teams. I think the title comes from one of those three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I think it would have been way better for the Clippers. Here's my last one. This is just for you because this is like the ultimate dumb sliding door thing. What if Philly doesn't bail on Al Horford after one year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
November 2020, coming out of the bubble season, heading to the next season, Darryl has just taken over. And Horford's got three years left on his deal. They trade him with Maldon, Micic, and a 25 first for Danny Green. That was the trade. They put OKC, they put, OKC puts Horford on ice for a year. They trade him to the Celtics for Kemba in the 16th pick. What happens to the 16th pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Interesting. Okay. Would it make the case for Risa Shea? Because he stumbled a little, and now it's coming back a lot, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
They pass on Shengun and Trey Murphy with the pick they get from Horford and trade it to Houston for two heavily protected Detroit-Washington picks. That was kind of a bad trade, but they just could have taken Shengun or Trey Murphy. Celtics make the 22 finals with Horford. They win the 24th title with Horford.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And Philly is now tanking in 25 to keep this pick that they gave up because they decided Al Horford was a bad fit with Joel Embiid, who doesn't fucking play. Guess who you needed a backup center for? Joel Embiid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
What's crazy is that Al Horford had negative value. They're like, you got to take, if you take Al Horford, I need, I need, I, you also have to throw in a pick. You got to take this guy back. That's how bad it was. And now he's like one of the most beloved Celtic teammates probably ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
You know, it would have been a fun, I mentioned, forgot to mention one other, what if with this, if the, if the, the Horford shade doesn't exist for the Celtics, they're stuck with Kemba for one more year, but they take Trey Murphy with the 16th pick. who's kind of like the perfect interchangeable swing to come in. That's another one. But what ifs? Those are our favorite ones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Somehow we went for almost two hours, so we don't have to do the thing at the top of the podcast. I think we're good with the pod. March Madness. I'm sure you're enjoying it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Do you think he should have done the press conference after and done the... Chris Ballin's not walking through that door, St. John's fans. Bill Winnington's not walking through that door. Walter Barrett's not walking through that door.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Could have been my guy, Brady Dunlop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
It's too bad. Yeah, they're missing. I'm sure he'll just recruit two shooters now. I think he should stay for a little while because I think it became a real thing in New York. I think he's smart enough to realize at the point of his career that he's been in where he's basically done everything and he's made a shitload of money. Why not try to be the king of New York for one more year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I mean, nobody's ever resigned from as much money as he had at stake with the Celtics, where he's just like, I resign. You can have the money back. That never happens ever. It's like, let's negotiate a buyout for three weeks. He's like, I'm out. Here's my facts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Spike, can we talk?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. He didn't need another team. He didn't need to add a second one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Very possible. Uh, Rosillo back on your pod on Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah. We're doing, uh, I don't know what we're doing. All right. Well, I'll see you, uh, in Boston, Massachusetts this week, because we're doing. A live rewatchable show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
We're doing Good Will Hunting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Thursday at night. It's sold out. It's at House of Blues. We're doing that. And then I'm making you come to at least a couple Coolidge Corner Theater. You got to come to it. You got to come see like Heat or Goodfellas or one of those movies, The Town. You got to go see one of them in a theater with us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Right. We had a category in the rewatchables called blind call to Rosillo. And every time we called, you didn't answer because you never answer your phone. And then this time I did the call and Van goes, call back, call second time. Or Craig said that. Maybe he had his second time maybe to go through a call. You answered and you did about a minute on blue chips. It was great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
All right. I'll see you in Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Priscilla. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle. As always, don't forget about Prestige TV tonight. Doing a podcast episode on White Lotus, episode six. New rewatchables coming on Monday. We did Blue Chips, Celtic City on HBO and on Max, 9 p.m. Monday night. The first Bird episode, we're going into the 80s. As you can tell, I enjoyed it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
And then on this podcast, I'm definitely going to be having a podcast on Tuesday. Not sure about Thursday yet. So at least Tuesday, you're going to have me. I will see you on Tuesday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I had him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I had I had him in the blink test. No prep. He was number two to me. And I just like Castle a little more because I can see him as a top three guy on a contender down the road. Research a probably. The hoops IQ is there. I like that he's always moving. He's not like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just going to stand over here. He moves. If they get a rebound, he'll take off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
He'll try to get... He'll think like, oh, maybe if I bust my ass on this, I'll get the ball and I'll be able to get a dunk. I don't think Trey... I think Trey's both fun to play with sometimes and then really not fun to play with other times. But he seems like he's getting better. So I would have him... I'd have him second. And I think that's a pretty good pick for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Where this gets interesting is the third pick, because I think those are clearly one, two. I would have Castle first. You'd have Reese's shape first. But I think that's the one, too. But the third from what you've seen, who would you take? Whoa, I think this is where it gets hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
but I also saw SAR a week ago and I'm like, Jesus Christ, this guy's Serge Ibaka with three point range. Like this set, this looks great. But, uh, Look, I've watched Bozelis on TV a few times. I actually like watching the Bulls, full confession. I was excited to see him in person last night. And of course, just randomly saw the best game he could possibly have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
The Prestige TV podcast, we're still covering White Lotus, episode six. Sunday night on HBO, right after it ends, you can go there and you can listen to me and Mallory and Joanna breakdown episode six, which was fantastic. I am going to Boston in a couple of days because we're doing a live rewatchables at house of blue.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
I don't really know what he's missing from that position because he can shoot. I like his stroke. He goes to the basket. He's really athletic. And there's a little bit of a fuck you to him that I really saw for four quarters last night. He's not afraid. It's a little feisty. And I just could clearly see, I see what he is for the next 10 years. And I think they nailed that pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
So for me, it's either Saar or him for that third spot. And I'd probably lean toward Bezelis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo
Right, if he was like the Wizards point guard instead of Jordan Poole.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Also, he might not be the number one pick next year because there's a couple dudes in next year's draft that everybody loves. You know you're the number one pick now. Yeah, so Cerruti says the lottery is May 15th. He'd have a month to look at it. We have not had a scenario where somebody tried to power play the top pick or one of the top picks in a while. Like Danny Ferry famously did it
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
When I was in college, because he didn't want to go to the Clippers, ended up shoving his way to the Cavs. Steve Francis basically did it. He got drafted, was unhappy about it, had one of the funniest NBA draft reactions probably ever, where he just seemed like he was being tortured, that he went to Vancouver, put the hat on, just kept looking up, and then finally pushed the trade to Houston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It really hasn't happened since then. And I actually wonder why it doesn't happen more often, because... You know, we've been in this player empowerment era for 15 years now, but we haven't had a rookie come in and say, nah, I actually don't want to go to Charlotte. So you can either trade the pick to somebody I want to go to, or I'm just going to go back to Duke.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Me and Russell, we're also going to talk about Duke and just a colossal collapse last night that we have to discuss. So that's all coming next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this at 10.30 Pacific time. We're going to do the made-up NBA awards for the 24-25 season in a second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I think he has real leverage now at the NIO to at least pretend he might want to do that. The problem for that theory is I don't think there's like a truly horrible team to go to this year. in the NBA, do you? Like even Charlotte, like is that a bad situation? Like they have a new front office, new owner. Everybody likes Charles Lee. They have some assets. Like that's not a disaster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Washington's not a disaster. I don't see a team where I'd be like, oh man, I feel so bad for him. He went there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You're stumbling into it based on bad organizational stuff. Yeah. Don't say sorry. They, they played the season wrong and would somehow get compensated with that would be nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, the Cleveland fans got mad at me. That was absurd. But I got your point. It's like, come on. Three times in five years, the same team's going to win the number one pick. What are we doing? Like, what are we doing? Philly, I think if you're talking about what would be the most interesting basketball situation for him, the Philly one would be, at least on paper, the most interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know if it would be the best for him because now he's on the Embiid. Are you playing or you're not playing clock? He's on the Paul George... whatever the hell's going on there, but at least he'd have good guards. But I think Washington would be the most fun for him from a, just as a basketball fan, just because of the weird pieces they have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I think he would fit in with the guys they have and, you know, be, be some sort of connector.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, there's some tough advanced metrics with him, like the perimeter shots, like that 15 to 20 feet range. You saw it last night. He missed it. But the thing is, he's 18. He's a year younger than he probably should be. I'm just like, if you're just looking, go back and look at Tatum tape when he was at Duke or first year Celtics. He had a couple of things he could do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And other than that, he was like a baby deer in the woods trying to figure everything out. And Flagg is... And what I see from an all-around game is closer to the Tatum now than that Tatum in 2018. But I don't really know if he has a comp. I don't think he's the same kind of natural scorer, but there's so many other awesome things he does. I can't wait to see him in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And the bummer for him is just from a big picture standpoint, he had a chance to have this start to finish college season that just would have been mentioned with Davis in 2012, Carmelo and some of the great seasons. Now that's pulled away. I don't think this loss sticks to him though. It really felt like a team collapsed to me. Yeah, that shot, they'll replay it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But big picture, here's a first take segment for you. is it better to lose or win a game like this if you're trying to become a great NBA player someday? Do you need like, Do you need the agony, the thing to go back to during the summer, the pain of that one loss and be like, I never want to have that feeling again? In some ways, you could argue that's actually probably better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Bird always said like getting his ass kicked by magic in the final game was actually a really good thing for him. It gave him like a whole other level of drive. So I don't know. There's a dumb silver lining. Could have been too easy if they won right away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
If MJ had missed that shot, maybe he wins eight titles. Maybe he never plays baseball again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
When was the last time we had a college basketball loss like this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. That's a good one. That was 2008, right? That was like 17 years ago. Just doesn't happen the same way. Wait, one more thing on the NCAA. Um, you talked about the Florida guy last week and how much you liked him. Yeah. And then you watch him last night and he just looks like he's doing a Jamal Murray impersonation. And I guess now he's crept into the, uh, into the first round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Wanted to talk about the Final Four last night, specifically an unbelievable, unfathomable Duke collapse. One of the all-timers. Something that brought me back to where we were in college sports in the 80s, when shit like that seemed to happen way more often. Just watching. When did you start wondering... oh my God, are they going to blow this? Because for me, it was when they got the steal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I don't really know the knocks. He's not as tall as Murray is. And he's older. He's 22, which they always seem to penalize guys with. But, um, he's been impressive enough that I'm now rooting to see him go to a decent team in the draft, maybe a team where he could, uh, play. I'm talking about Clayton, but, uh, but I, I've, I've just been, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
really, really, really blown away by his shot making and how he seems to have a sense for when his team needs him to do something, right? If he's on Duke last night, Duke doesn't lose the game. So where do you see him? I know you only started doing the draft stuff, but where do you see him in that whole context? Does this even matter when these teams are looking at this in June?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I would add the way he finishes after he bounces into somebody in a drive and still finishes with touch. That's the thing that reminds me of Murray the most. When Murray's really going, he has this ability to kind of bounce off dudes and finish anyway. I think he's really impressive. I was mad. I had a... I had the Auburn Duke parlay last night, which then I had to chase with Duke Clippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So it was a double loss for me last night. But I just thought Auburn was better. And then as you're watching him take over the second half, you're like, why the fuck did I bet against this guy? This guy thinks he's the best guy in this tournament. I'm not doing that again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The most important question I'm going to ask you before we go to the break. Do you think stripping the inbounds passer should be worth more than one technical?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It was the 77-76 was the first time I was like, oh my God, they might actually lose this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You think it should be, I think it should be, it should be a two tech that it's just such a crazy thing to do. I just think it should be an extra, add an extra tech to it for how stupid, how stupid it is. And then that guy came back and made some big plays. He wasn't phased at all. All right. We got to get to the made up NBA awards. We're gonna take a break. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Welcome to a special part of the show, which is brought to you today by Audi with their all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron. So we're going to do made up NBA awards in a second, but just quick check-in because we got four games left. The biggest thing that's at stake right now is this defensive player of the year award, which Draymond has. There's like a good media campaign for him right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Rob Mahoney and I talked about a little bit on Thursday and both of us thought Didn't, didn't really see it, but Draymond's the favorite basically based off this last 25 games. A large favorite shoe, right? Yeah. Basically based off this post Jimmy Butler trade stretch that seems to ignore the rest of the season. I'm not voting for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm either voting for Moby or Dort because I just thought those guys were better. And I want to look at, I'm not going to decide today, but did you have Draymond all of a sudden as the defensive player of the year or are you leaning somewhere else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
There's some clutch defense with him, too. He'll make the single biggest play in the fourth quarter defensively, little stuff like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Well, the all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron, a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage of the panoramic digital stage plus an optional screen for front seat passengers. Perfect for watching the latest sports documentary.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The Q6 e-tron, not just the new EV, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. All right, made up awards time. So we did this last year. I had a fantastic time. We're doing it again. Have a bunch of awards. I couldn't remember last year if I sent you all the nominees. I don't think I did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I think I just sent you the awards and left you on your own to come up with like a winner. But I have nominees for each category. So we're going to rip through them. And the first one, His Unicorn of the Year, which Wemba Nyama won last year. We created it for him. He got hurt. I don't think... Would you say he's eligible? I mean, he could basically win every year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'd like to come up with a new name for this, right? Can we zag a little?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents, select states, game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG-HELP.com. Coming up, we're gonna do the made up NBA awards for 24, 25 with Ryan Rosillo next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Will Chamberlain? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I haven't seen that one yet. 500 pounds is a lot. A lot, especially with long arms. Really strong guy. Nominees I have, Wemby again, Ahmed Thompson, LeBron at age 40, Dyson Daniels, or Zach Eady for Unicorn of the Year. We could just vote for Wemby again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You can put chat in there. Make the case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I like the Chet one. If we can't give it to Wemby, I think Chet is a good backup choice because I've never really seen another player like him. So I think you're right. I wanted to give this to Ahmed Thompson, but I feel like he's been in the vicinity of other guys we watch. But I still feel like to have enough athletic ability that people go to see you play basketball,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And you seem like a better athlete than anyone at a basketball game with all the best athletes. Feels unicorny. So at least he's a medalist. So we'll give it to him. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It's like a Michael Phelps in the Summer Olympics one year, just grabbing medals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you very much. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, but you're taught in like seventh grade not to do that. Don't get trapped in the corner is the number one thing for the inbounds pass. The number two is just don't throw it up for grabs under your own basket. And they somehow did both.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . la in ,,,,,,, ,,,, ,,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
He's been good last month. I've been impressed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Maybe the word's defunct. I looked at the research numbers. It was high volume.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, they had a drought that felt like a half hour with all the challenges and all the reviews and all the other things. First of all, there was a play in this game. I'll be interested to see if you've seen it because I can't remember ever seeing somebody try to strip the inbounds passer before and getting a technical. I feel like that might've made history for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Cam Thomas's stats are basically almost exactly the same as last year. So he's probably the winner, even though I feel, I felt way better watching him this year than it did last year. But yeah, we don't really have the, that's why even like LaMelo, I was like, eh, I don't know. Maybe we leave this to funk this year. What's, we got some media awards coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So let's take a break before we get to this. All right. This is one of the big categories. This is like in the Oscars when all of a sudden they're doing like, you know, best supporting actor. Like, whoa, we're doing this now. It's the Perk Thinks Jokic Pads His Stats Award for Worst Sports Media Take of the Year about basketball. I'm sure you have a couple nominees written down, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I wrote down four. Perk saying Steph shouldn't be an all-star. All of Colin Coward's Tatum takes, like all of them for five straight months, which I went on his show two weeks ago and made fun of him for. Marcus Morris has been debuting some Jokic stuff lately that I really want to talk about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And then Gilbert Arena saying Bronny would be top five for rookie of the year if he played 36 minutes a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Any other ones that jumped out for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It probably happened at some point in my life, but I don't remember. But that happens. And I thought, oh, that's gotta be two techs in the ball. It was only one tech. So they go up six, but they have the ball. And then from that moment on, the game just completely fell apart for them. And they had, there was bad defensive stuff. Like flag got beat for a layup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Was there anybody that Jokic shoved from behind really hard and knocked him out for 20 games?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So you think that was in the meeting? He test drove it, and they're like, that's great. You should say that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
All right. Next category is the most shameless LeBron related media moment of the year. And unfortunately, there were too many this year with people in the media. And we're just going to skip this award, including a couple last week that I was just stupefied by. Let's move on. The Virginia Beach Kings Award for most contrived story on a slow news day. I'll give you the nominees.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
This is, I think, another action-packed great category. Stephen A. versus LeBron for 10 days. The story that Minnesota at the deadline came really close to getting Kevin Durant, even though they're on the 13th apron and it's like physically impossible for them to make any sort of trade that would have allowed it. I enjoyed that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Anything, any story that involves an ex-player in a podcast taking a shot at a current player, throwing that in there. Any story that made it seem like Joel Embiid was now ramping up to play, throwing there. And then my favorite, Paul George has paused his podcast to concentrate on the 76ers season. I thought I had no notes. I thought that was a tour de force. Some blame me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Oh, some blame you for that? What else do you have for most contrived story on a slow Tuesday?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You were going to do a Kamara open?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They gave up that three when they were up six. When all they did was basically just you know, a little, uh, a lazy high screen and both guys jumped on the one guy and all of a sudden somebody else was wide open. They gave up the, uh, inbounds pass steal, uh, wide open three guy comes flying in from the weak side and dunks it. And then, you know, the guards on Duke were terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I think my favorite contrived story is the Durant trade, though. That was my favorite. I can't believe Minnesota was floating that out like there was ever a chance in a million years they had a chance to get Kevin Durant when all the rules make it literally impossible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They said, what would it take to get Giannis? And we were like, what are you talking about? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The McKeskey Award for Best American White Guy. Previous winners included Chet Holmgren, Tyler Hero, Kevin Love, and Mike Miller. So this is a prestigious one. Mike Miller actually was close to having the white belt here. He had it. He won it. Somewhere in the mid-2000s, he grabbed it. I'm not saying it's wrong. Sometimes it's a weak field. This year, it's a strong field.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Chet Holmgren, Tyler Hero, Austin Reeves. We'll throw Pritchard in there just to have four candidates. But this is probably the best category we've had. Now, Holmgren's missed a punch of time, so I'm going to penalize him and make it between Hero and Reeves. And I got to say, I think it's Reeves. It's Holmgren if we don't care that he missed the games because he's the best out of those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But I think if you're going by this season, it's Reeves.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You're right. Chet's the best out of those guys. We don't have the all NBA rules where it's 55 games or more. We're just going best white guy. He's the best white guy. Dennis Rodman Award for best ongoing distraction. Nominees. Embiid. What's going on with his knee? Is he going to play today? Uh-oh, setback. Oh, he's ramping up. Ah, setback. Oh, he's ramping up. Zion. Is he playing? Oh, he's hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I really think like, if you go on big picture, um, the fact that you're trying to win a title, but you don't really have that one, I got a guy's guard. It really seems like that blows up in games like that. You're playing a big football stadium. There's a crazy pressure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Whoa, he had 38 points and 17 rebounds last night. Where is he? He's not there anymore. John Morant. Jimmy Butler in Miami. Not the Jimmy Butler going on stage. Jimmy Butler in Miami. And then last one, here's where I'm going to put our guy Mark Cuban for his It's Not My Fault media tour. After probably two weeks of getting hammered by everyone in Dallas, why did you trade Luka Doncic?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Since him explaining that they didn't, he finally felt the need to give multiple interviews, rubbing salt into the open wound of the Luka trade. So who do you have for this best ongoing distraction? Biggest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I think you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Yep. I think you're right. Plus, watching how great of a teammate and contributor and the way the Golden State guys are talking about him, how amazing he is. He can score nine points, have five rebounds, and still impact a game in these 19 ways. Steph loves him. Draymond loves him. Kerr loves him. I think it's the right answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I think he's played a lot of minutes the last 25 games in a way that hasn't really happened in a while. And I've noticed a little bit of the same thing, that it seems like he's a little bit dead legs-y. But, you know, they're in the grind now. They're trying to get trying to get a top three, top four seed. I don't think they have any choice. I was surprised he played on Friday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But I think these guys, you know, at this point, it's such a dramatic difference to be three or four versus falling down. Eight is the scary one. Nobody wants to be eight. People will play these guys and back to backs, whatever. Nobody wants to be it. So that's it. Oh, the Jim Coughlin Award. For you thinking better than me. Last year, this was won by the LeBron JJ pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I guess we could give it to the Nash LeBron pod this year to mind the game. I don't know if you had any other candidates.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And then your sphincters start to get a little tight and you kind of need that one guy who's like, I got it, I got it, I got this. And they didn't have anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
That's a good note. Oh, this is a great one. The Andre Blatch Award for most immediately regrettable extension. And somehow we had six nominees, including Joel Embiid. I'm throwing Laurie Markkinen in. Jamal Murray, throwing him in. Brandon Ingram happened during the season. Patrick Williams and Scotty Barnes. The answer is obviously Joel Embiid, but it's just fun that we had six nominees.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And Markkinen, I shoehorned a couple in there that probably weren't that regrettable, but it is Joel Embiid is our answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Five for 90.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up another Rewatchables on Friday night. We did The Saint, me and Kyle Brandt, because Val Kilmer died last week. And normally we put Rewatchables up on Mondays, but we decided, screw it, we put it up three days early. So you can find it as a video podcast on Spotify. You can find it on The Ringer Movies.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Would you consider changing the name next year from Andre Blatch to Joel Embiid Award if Embiid doesn't come back next year? Or did Andre, having an extension that got in the steed and making NBA history that way, should that just cement the award for him forever?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Early internet too. Early social media internet, which made it more fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The 2025 Ewing Theory Award for star most likely to be Ewing Theory next season. I have Ja Morant, Zion, and Booker as my three candidates.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It's like some of the Draymond stuff. He gets he gets punished for a different level of scrutiny because of the past behavior. Welcome to life. The Lou Brown Award out of nowhere team that surprised us the most, Detroit, Portland, and Houston, I think are the three. And I would have to say as great as the Portland, Houston out of nowhere seasons were, it has to be Detroit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
That team was all-time rock bottom last year and turned into a really fun league pass team. They're going to be a six seed, probably playing the Knicks in round one. There's going to be at least one awesome near fight in that thing. Cade turned into a real guy. And for me, it's Detroit. Who is it for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Probably a one parter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Let's, uh, we'll take one more break and then we have some good awards left. All right. One of our big categories, the ML car trying to trade for a retired Michael Jordan award for goofiest, but possibly real off season subplot. I have five. What ifs for you? This is for the summer. What if the Lakers shop Luca? What if Katie opted out and signed for a vet minimum to chase a title?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
What if LaMelo Zion and job were in the same three team trade? What if Paul George demanded a trade? And what if Phoenix said, fuck this and just stretch Bradley Beal? Those are my five nominees for goofiest but possibly real offseason subplot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Send the checks every two weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
There's only one way to do it at this point. And it's happened a couple of times in the history of the NBA. I remember Reggie Theus was a good one. I can't remember if he was on the Bulls or the Kings, but he just got benched and they just didn't play him. And they basically tried to break him. The cap situation was way different back then than it is now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But that's Phoenix's last resort is to just not play him anymore. And, you know, be like, all right, we'll keep paying you, but you're just not going to play basketball. So I think it might be a game of chicken. He might be OK with it, though. That's the problem. Whatever I watched in that Boston game, I was really startled by. I hadn't seen anything remotely approached that in a while.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
In the social media era, it doesn't really happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Um... So Phoenix stretching Bradley Beal, which nobody's been stretched with two years and a hundred million left on their deal. But as a way to get under the second apron and just basically take the hit for the next five years, it's not inconceivable. Um, the Zaza Picouli award for the one rule that absolutely needs to be changed. What did you have for this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I like it. I have two runner up and then my number one. I'll make the annual plea. Please don't let coaches challenge block charges anymore. Let's just say the call is the call and we just move on. I never want to watch another replay of a review of a block charge. I don't think guys should be able to have to eat the field goal attempt on a half court shot. I just get rid of that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Make it a team shot the same way they have like team rebounds. Um, because then I think it would inspire more people to try to take half quarter, three court shots. And we might have a couple.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I also think we should have 20 second instant replay challenges where within 20 seconds, it's like you think no, and we just flip it and keep the game going versus like the five minutes. But here's my big one. And you know what? I almost had this last year and I think it's gotten worse this year and I really hate it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I don't know where, where the end game is, but the rolling the ball and the inbounds pass is, So the clock starts, but the shot clock doesn't start. And this whole game of like, the ball's just going to roll and we're going to kill time. And then somebody's like, all right, fine. I'm going to run. First of all, somebody's going to get injured on this at some point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Somebody's going to dive into somebody else's legs and somebody's going to lose their knee. I just think it's so fucking stupid. You roll the ball and the shot clock should start and the game clock should start. I don't know why they do it this way. And I would change this. So that's my passion for this year, Priscilla.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Well, 20-second quickie reviews. I left this award open for you, the Ben Simmons Award for Best Ben Simmons Moment. I figured you'd have something and you could just go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Well, so you went positive Ben Simmons moments.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I was going to go for the, uh, the preseason media day for the nets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The 2010 Baron Davis Award for single best mail-in. This is, I think, the toughest category we've had so far because you could make a small case for Paul George on the Sixers most years, but not this year. Jimmy Butler on Miami and Bradley Beal just the whole season. And it is like bird magic in the mid 80s. We could argue about this for days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I personally think it's Butler on Miami because he was willfully trying to force their hand to get traded and doing all kinds of things. But I also can't shake Beal and I don't want to have co-winners. So I'm going to let you pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Because at least Butler, something... really seemingly catastrophic happened with him and Pat Riley. And there was some sort of breach, whoever was right, whoever was wrong, that made it impossible for Butler to play even at a decent level for them anymore. He was just broken in Miami.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
We got to rip through a couple awards here. The Shane Battier Award for Sloan Conference Statner Darling DuJour. This just happened, that big article on Jokic's defense and him kicking passes and how he's had the most kick passes ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
in this decade and more kick passes this whole thing about Jokic like the actually his defense by the way I've always felt this way I think when you take like the best players I still feel like I felt this way about Steph I felt this way about Bird and Magic once upon a time even though Magic would get torched by small guards but those guys were always they're always in steals they were always like could read what the other team was doing they're always good coming out of timeouts on defense
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But I like this whole Jokic thing. And then the other candidate for this is Jokic's on-off stuff is just the most incredible it's ever been. I mean, when he plays, they have like a 125.4 rating or something like that, which would be the best ever. And when he doesn't play, they're 30th in the league on offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So they're either best all time or worst in the league, depending on whether he plays or not. There's so many good advanced stats that I swear, I think there's going to be some late Jokic momentum for MVP next week, even though it seems like Shea has it locked up. I think the stats are so crazy. And I don't want to spoil next week's pod. The stats are so crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And the season has been so unbelievable. Fandle has Shea at like minus a thousand or something like that. I don't know if it's over yet. That's all I'm going to say.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Nobody's leaning anywhere. The David Kahn award for worst GM performance. So my big question is, is this now become the Nico Harrison award? Did he do enough to supplant David Kahn? Who took Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio over Steph Curry among 17 other terrible things he did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So just one bad night?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Well, nominees, Nico Harrison, Sacramento firing Mike Brown and then panic trading De'Aaron Fox, New Orleans throwing Dyson Daniels into the Murray trade, Miami's entire handling of the Jimmy Butler deal, or Denver being 5 million under the second apron and not having a bench. Those would be my David Conner word, worst front office nominees, but the answer is Nico Harrison.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Great. Let's add him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
since god knows when no not top 20 but pretty good yeah not top 20 but close yeah i mean i just i just want to shout them out you have this amazing asset you have to spend when you have an asset like that and they're not doing it and they own other teams it's not good of the money it's very strange to me you know what though is this might be the i drafted these guys i brought in pickett i brought in
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Watson you know I brought in Swather you know just trust me I know what I'm doing well I don't think you do because I think a lot of people would want to play Denver in the playoffs the way this is shaking out Denver and Memphis are the two teams I think people are fine playing as great as Jokic is it'll be funny if they get bounced out the
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Let's see. Can we have him? He's outside the building. I would say them and Memphis are the two best candidates for the 4-0 sweep in round one. If we were going to have a shocking... I can't believe that team got swept. I would have Denver or Memphis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The Vitaly Potapenko Award for Worst Deadline Trade, named after the time Rick Pitino during a strike season gave up an unprotected first-round pick for Vitaly Potapenko that turned out they could have either taken Sean Marion or Andre Miller, and they didn't get either because they got a backup center.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So I don't love Miami dumping Dennis Schroeder for no reason when they got him in that deal when they clearly kind of want to be a playoff team, I guess. But at the Mark Williams trade, When you have Luka and you have this chance in the West for the Lakers to do that trade and then to back out of it and then just kind of get nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And now it's unquestionably going to haunt them in the playoffs that they don't have a center. I have to nominate that. Deadline is the trade is the Mark Williams cancellation trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I mean, we saw one Friday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
The double big lineup. They had some issues. They kind of got pounded on the boards in a way that I was like, oh, okay. We'll fly in the ointment. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Houston relentless made a couple of big shots, made a couple of big defensive plays like blocking can nipple when they were down six on that layup was, you know, Duke had the opposite play on the other end and they fouled the guy. Um, I was thinking about the big picture thing for me, obviously flag. Nobody's going to remember this game in five years. Nobody's going to hold it against him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
No, I mean, for like, for the flag NBA arc, when he's like playing on Charlotte or whatever, age 24, he's in the playoffs. Nobody's going to be like, Hey, remember that time in the semifinals?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
youtube channel as well uh i'm taping this right now it is late sunday morning pacific time tonight on the prestige tv podcast me and mally rubin and joanna robinson are going to be reacting to the white lotus season finale we're doing it live
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Then he sucked in the last two minutes. Did he suck? Well, he gave up a couple big defensive plays, gave up a big rebound. He had the foul that over the back, which was, I thought, one of the worst foul calls in a while. But what I was going to say was... I pushed back on that he sucked. Well, he sucked in the last two minutes. He did. Sucked in the last two minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
. . . . .. the en P P P P P P P P P P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a a
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They gave up like an absolute slaughter of a run and he was a big part of it. Defensively, he was in multiple plays where his guy either beat him in the basket or he gave up a wide open three on that switch. That was his fault. When it's 7-7-7-1, 100% his fault on that. Gave up the weak side rebound.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Oh, on the Torture Clippers? Yeah. Well, if you go to the last 25 games, which is a huge sample size, they're fifth in net rating. And when Kawhi plays and looks like the way he's looked really for a few weeks now, I just wouldn't want to see that team. And honestly, I wouldn't want to see Minnesota either if I'm OKC. We both think they're going to make the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But it just sucks that those are two possible 1-8 matchups. Like you play, you're going to win 68, 69 games. And that's your prize. We only have a couple of words left. We can rip through this. The white chocolate was a problem award. For 2025 guy whose season was much better in 40-second Twitter highlights, I'll give you Ja, Zion, LaMelo, Jordan Poole, or Russell Westbrook. Who do you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It feels like that game, I mean, that's another team that might fall to 7-8. That game was a catastrophic loss. Like to waste that level of where Jokic got to that game and to have it 19 times and then blow it. And they haven't won since. Look, he's fine as your ninth guy. And as your guy, we're resting all the starters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Russ, can you just go out there and do everything and put up a 32, 10, 10, let us hang around. But I just don't know how you play him in crunch time in some of these games. It's too much of a wild card. It's too risky, right? The risk exceeds the reward. Can't do it. You've Jokic and Murray and Gordon and Porter and Braun. That's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Russ should never play in crunch time for them in a playoff game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm just saying, he's not sending that two minutes to the Hall of Fame committee and be like, here's my case. It was bad. The whole team was bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
How many minutes do you think he's played this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Total minutes. How many do you think he played?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
2,002 minutes heading into tonight's game. He's played 2,000 minutes. That's crazy. They paid nothing for him. So for that, it's a win. The loss is when he's actually involved in the plot, when they're desperately trying to not fall into that... Six, seven, eight range. And they had a pretty good foothold for the three spot. And now it's looking pretty grim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I thought he was the best guy on that team by far. But what I was going to say is that last shot, it's so funny how that fork in the road moment of like, he gets the shot he wants. I thought it was going to go in. and he front rimmed it. But if it goes in, now it's like this completely different conversation, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Oh, he would have been killed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Especially top five guy in the week. All right. Three words left. The Travolta and Pulp Fiction comeback of the year. Jimmy Butler, the Lakers as a franchise, or Scoot Henderson? Who do you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Okay, me too. Well, this is it. The second most prestigious award we have. It's the 2025 Shamit Face Award. This is your award. I know you put a lot of time and thought and effort into this, so who do you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
What do you like about it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It's a note when you see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Last award, the 2024 League Pass MVP Award. Most reliably entertaining guy day after day for six months. My winner is Nikola Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
as an alternative independent spirit awards kind of winner?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
You know, it's funny you mention this because... It's not a rational confidence because he's rational and confident. But I do think if it's 1-8 and it's OKC Minnesota... I think out of anybody in the league, he's the one who would go into that series going, I don't care what the record is. I'm better than everybody in that team. And like really genuinely, truly believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
They survived the scare and he has like his Larry Bird Carmelo moment and oh my God, and he finishes with 29 points and he's headed for the thing. And instead you're looking back like, ah, that was really rough. I thought he got tight. I thought the whole team got super tight. Proctor looked like He didn't want to dribble anymore by the end of the game. But that's the thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. He's 23. Yeah. It's, That's a good one. But Jokic, this Jokic season, and it doesn't look like he's going to win the MVP, but holy shit, man. There's been 10 games from him this year that you're just like, I just can't believe somebody's doing this. Like when you go look at the Wiltshire stats on basketball reference, like, oh my God, it wasn't just a 50-point-a-game year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
There was this other season he had 44-a-game. Like, what was that like to watch that? Not that Jokic is putting up points like that, but just the day-to-day, like it honestly feels like any box score is conceivable. He's had box scores where like there's no way anyone in basketball could ever have this. And he's had five of those this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
But then when you watch how he's just how he does everything for them, like he's their only real rebounder. He runs the offense. He scores all their stuff in crunch time. He sets up everybody else, like everything he does. It's just I've never seen anything like it day to day. We didn't have league pass in the 80s for, you know, the great players of that era.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And we only got to watch Jordan when he was on, you know, TNT. We didn't get to watch this night after night. This is fucking crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm keeping an open mind for the last week of the season. It's really tough for me not to vote for somebody who's going to win 68 games and have one of the great guard seasons in the history of the position offensively. Especially when I try to value the winning piece. If he's going to win 20 more games than Denver. But the more I stare at this, that 60-10 game broke my brain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
That was unbelievable. I've never, have you ever seen somebody just get the ball 25 feet from the basket and the other team knew what he was going to do and he would still back around and just get like a three foot sky hook? Like what the fuck? I know they were missing some guys in Minnesota, but I just thought that game was just nuts. Wasn't just the points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It was how he was getting the points and how easily he was doing everything. It was nuts to watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
These guys are flags 18. These guys are all kids. That's what always makes me nervous when I watch college sports. I feel so bad that these guys are so young at the stage they're at, you know, which is the kind of spotlight and tension and pressure. I don't think I think you're wrong, though. I don't think it's going to hang on flag in the same way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Um, all right. Those are our made up NBA words for 2025. Congrats to all the winners and the nominees. Yeah. Next time I see you will be Sunday night. We will know the playoff matchups. We will do some all NBA stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
We might have to go, uh, might even have to go two parts, but I can't remember that like looking at the West standings and some games are happening right now as we talk, but this West standings, the volatility of these last, uh, seven days is going to be bonkers to watch. Anyway, good to see you, Russillo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I'm three in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I don't know if Joe's watching it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
That'd be amazing if they went back to the well. A double jerk. All right, I'll see you in a week. See you then. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle Gahow as well. Thanks to Saruti. And don't forget White Lotus tonight on the Prestige TV podcast. And you can watch it live on the Ringer Dash TV right after that show ends.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And don't forget, we put up a rewatchable. It's the same. It's up. We put it up three days early. So that's what we got going. I'm going to be back on this podcast on Tuesday and I'll see you then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I thought he was really good for for almost the entirety of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Well, if we're doing the scale, the C-Web timeout game was clearly like, we'll be remembering this. Right. When he called the when he called the timeout that they didn't have at the end of that thing, that was like, oh, shit, this one's going to fall. I also think college basketball meant more when that happened. But in this case, I don't know. I just thought I thought his team really stunk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
on the ringer dash tv youtube channel right around 7 30 pt 10 30 et right after that episode ends we'll be going live and then you can listen and watch as a video podcast on spotify or get it on the ringer dash TV YouTube channel. So that's everything we got going. Don't forget about one shining podcast as well. They had a live reaction to the final four last night, which we're still in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
And I watched Duke a bunch of times this year. That was that stretch in the second half I thought was by far the worst I've seen them. It's kind of inexplicable that they couldn't score for that long. I didn't really understand anything they were doing either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
What did he do good in the last two minutes? Because I watched it a couple of times today and I was like, ah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
There was a YouTube clip and I watched the last two minutes a couple of times because I was so fascinated by it. When you have these things that fall apart, It's almost like game six, 86, where you're like, you're watching each pitch. You're like, oh, that could end the game. Ah, that could end the game. And that Duke thing was the same thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
There was 10 plays in 90 seconds where you're like, ah, if they get that one, they win. Get the rebound, they win. You know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It was the way Houston was pressing on those inbounds passes and how physical they were. You could have called a bunch of stuff that way either. And they weren't. And then flags getting boxed out going backwards. Um, and I thought the guy took his right arm and kind of hooked flag from behind a little bit from at least one of the angles. Either way, it's just not a foul.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Now Houston got the ball anyway, but the issue for me is like, make them have to make a shot to win the game. Don't bail them out with some chintzy call that the guy was like, it seemed like he was just dying to call. He was calling it as they were still like, as flag was tipping the ball. I just didn't, I didn't get it. At that time in the game, I thought it was pretty inexcusable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
So from a flag standpoint, you don't think there's any way he goes back, right? Because that's another narrative. I don't see why he would. Like start the clock, start the clock on your max extension. I don't know. Why would you wait another year to do it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Stefan Diggs, 69 million for three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
It's really 20 for one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
In four years, he can sign a max when he's 22 years old. I don't know why you would delay that for any reason. He's also ready to play in the league. It's not like one of those situations where...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
I are about to talk about a little bit. Uh, and then coming up right after the Monday night title game, uh, you can get that as well. Coming up on this podcast. We did it last year. We did the made up NBA awards with one week to go in the season. I had a great time. So we're bringing the gimmick back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
you know and watching him a lot it's been interesting like espn ran a comps thing about him and i'm not positive there's a specific comp there's pieces of different guys there's some stuff he does that reminds me of tatum even though they're completely different players but like body size the fact that he can impact the game the tatum version now in all these different ways but then there's pieces of other dudes i just think if i were him i'm coming in there's a weird scenario though where he could potentially wait to see who gets the pick
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo
Right? Can he pull out by like... the lottery happens mid May and he, I think he can pull out like the end of May, something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka Gets Traded to the Lakers… What??? | With Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney
This message comes from Fred Hutch Cancer Center, whose discovery of bone marrow transplants has saved over a million lives worldwide.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Luka Gets Traded to the Lakers… What??? | With Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't miss your chance to win some money with America's number one sports book. I mean, post-trade deadline. We had one of the craziest trade deadlines we've ever had in the history of the league. We have Fox on San Antonio, Luca on the Lakers, Kuzma on the Bucks. Kidding. The Cavs got better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So I don't know people like this podcast, for instance, maybe, uh, maybe overreacting to the first two months, but the Murray thing was scary because the Paul George thing was also scary. And guess what? That continues to be completely terrifying. So, you know, there was real signs of danger, but Murray played himself out of it to his credit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So right now we have OKC Memphis. Denver is the top three. Denver threatening to pass Memphis. Houston Lakers. And Houston just, you know, has not been good for a couple weeks, but they've had some injuries. Lakers, I don't know what happens with them, 32-20. Clippers, 30-23, have been confusing for about a month now. They're fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then we move into that Minnesota-Dallas-Sacramento-Golden State thing. And we're going to talk about it when we do the NBA six-pack. The most notable thing is the Spurs feel like they've fallen out. And I think Phoenix is not dead yet. But people are definitely around the table like Jon Hamm and Landman. They're definitely around the hospital bed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And maybe the doctor's like, you might want to say your goodbyes soon. They're almost at that point. But it feels like we actually might know the 10 playoff teams now. Unless you think Sacramento can fall out of this because like they had a bad loss with New Orleans tonight. They've won some goofy games. They're 20, 27. They honestly could be like 22 and 34.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Please check out TheRinger.com because we have a bunch of good content this week, including some really good SNL stuff. We have... a fun MBA project coming next week. So stay tuned for that as well. And then the big news for the Ringer Podcast Network, starting this week, starting Sunday night, White Lotus is starting on HBO. Last season, Joanne Robinson and I
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So if Phoenix was going to catch a team, that would be the team I pick. But what do you think? Do we have our 10 now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Confidence in the Kings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You made a point earlier about Minnesota and how something about them seems comfortable against OKC, which is something you couldn't really say about a lot of teams. I think that might be just a lot of length on the perimeter and interchangeable guys and just people to throw at SGA. Today was the recipe for how you beat OKC in a playoff series where one, SGA doesn't have a good game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then two, they don't make a ton of threes. And, you know, it is a team, and I guess you could say this about any team in the league, but I really feel with them when they're down like 12 points, And you go, I mean, this is it. This is how you beat them. And then they win like their next 13 by an average of 20 points a game. But they can have that, you know, you can hit them with the haymaker.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So if they're down 3-2 in a playoff series on the road in a game like today, that would be the recipe, I think. I still don't 100% trust anyone else on their team offensively except SGA. Yeah. And that's the one thing that gives me pause with like, just pencil them in. Like they have the best odds to win the West and it's an easy pick for the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But that's the one thing that makes me nervous when it's really nerve wracking gut crunch time. Ball crunch time? Gut crunch?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Who, who am I going to if like Shea has five fouls late in the third quarter and I just need somebody to get me offense for like six minutes. That's what makes me nervous with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
we did the recaps of White Lotus season two. And I think we might've done season one too. I can't remember. Anyway, season two we did. We added Mallory Rubin this season. White Lotus will end on HBO. We will be putting our podcast up as a video podcast on Spotify on the Prestige TV pod. And you can watch it on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel as well. Our recaps.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
We talked about it a little last week. I'm in the camp. They're playing so well. They look so good. And Wiggins, especially, that was the spot you would have improved. But he was just playing really well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah. So, all right. We trade Wiggins and contracts and a few of our picks to try to get DeAndre Hunter. Are we even better? Wiggins was playing really well. Yeah. Would you rather pay Wiggins, like a much smaller contract, or Hunter, 18 million a year? I can see why they... They always value the continuity.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And it's one of those things that if it's in May and they lose in round two, we're going to be like, why didn't they make a trade?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And a close team, too, that really seems like... That's where... Even the Cavs messing with what they have. It gets a little dangerous when you have a team that clearly likes each other. For sure. Dallas is the only other team, just quickly. Who knows when Davis comes back?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
The way Kyrie has played and kind of... I mean, this is one of the great 180s we've had by an athlete, Kyrie, the last two years, where I think he senses the moment in the city of Dallas... And the press conferences, the interviews that he's given, the way he's played where he's like, no, no, I got this. Come over here. Like, don't abandon the ship yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
If they can get Davis back in time, I don't know if they can, but if they can, it is an interesting team. You know, they have size, they have length, they have defense and the fans who seem like they were going to revolt against this team even three days ago. Like, I don't know. They were into the game today. They were cheering those guys and, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You know, so they're kind of, I guess, over here on the side, depending on where they land. Right now they are 30-26, but no Davis for at least a month. So they'll be somewhere between 8-10, I would say, in the play-in, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They beat a heat team that just looks mediocre every night now. It just looks like it's the, uh, the end of the line. Um, I I'm thinking about the gut crunch. It's like a nineties exercise machine. Like I'm doing, I'm doing it. Yeah. You got crunch right now. Call now it's half off. Uh, we're going to take a break and then we're going to rip off an NBA six pack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then on Wednesdays, Rob Mahoney and Joanna Robinson will have the precaps for Prestige. They're also covering Severance on the Prestige TV pod. as well. So very excited. We love White Lotus. One of our favorite shows since we've had Grantland and the Ringer. We're talking since 2011. This is one of the OGs, one of the most fun TV shows to talk about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Speaking of Superior, let's unpack six major things going on in the basketball world right now. We have to start with the 76ers. So, I was thinking big splash teams in the last 25 years that just ended up being disappointing. Going back to post lockout, the 1999 Rockets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
When they put Barkley and Pippen and it came together and they were like, look at this. And then it was bad. The 2004 Lakers, even though they made the finals, that was still kind of disappointing the way it ended. But the big ones, 2013 Lakers with Dwight and with Nash.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
The Prokerov-Netz post-KG trade with Pierce and Joe Johnson and Darren Williams and Prokerov. Oh my God, he's going to basically do what the Dodgers just did in baseball. It didn't happen. 2019 Celtics, after they made the Eastern Finals without Kyrie. Kyrie came back. Hayward came back. Tatum, Jalen Brown. I think I went on Jalen and Jacoby's ESPN show and predicted them to win in the mid-60s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
That did not happen. The 22 Lakers with LeBron. and AD and a new addition, Russell Westbrook.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They ended up winning 33 games. And then the, uh, the nets after the foot on the line season, of course, the, uh, Katie Kyrie Harden thing, where does the Sixers just sucking? They're 20 and 34. Where does this rank on the, I can't believe this is happening scale for you because there were some signs, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah, so there was some Paul George stuff that came out today from Shams that he had a screwed up finger tendon on his left hand. He's getting injections for it. I'm sure that's true, but it doesn't explain the fact that he looks just slower and more plodding and doesn't seem to have nearly the same burst and just seems like... Not only a step slow, but a second slow. Yeah. It is processing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And I don't know how that's the left-hand tendon thing. I don't get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So anyway, that's coming on the Prestige TV pod. Coming on this podcast, I'm going to talk to Rob Mahoney actually about what's going on in the West. What's up with the Warriors? Can they turn it around and we're going to open an NBA six pack? And then I had a whole SNL 50 thing I wanted to do about My favorite sketches, episodes, characters, musical performances.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
He hasn't helped himself with some of the comments either. No. Like when he complained about playing the five. There hasn't been a lot of, I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whatever. If they need me to play there, I'll play there. It's just there's a lot of like basic. You have to look at how the outside world is looking at you stuff with him. That just seems to be missing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Well, the biggest thing they got was the Eagles had a playoff run and won the Super Bowl. That's very true. And Curtis and I talked about it on Thursday, this rarely seen Super Bowl news dump after they won when they were like, hey, Embiid might get surgery again. I don't know where this is going. And they just snuck that one out under the dead of night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But I think if Philly had been knocked down in round one, the Eagles... And then, you know, people really had a chance to stare at the Sixers season with the kind of season Maxie's having, where he's almost averaging 28 a game. Yabasele, they really lucked out with that. And they're still, they're 20 and 34. They're six and 14 in their last 20. In that last 20, they have the 23rd net rating.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So they're just been a bottom eight team for, you know, a good 40% of the season here. They've only gotten 17 games from Embiid. And yet they're only, uh, a game and a half behind Chicago for the 10th seed and Chicago doesn't want to keep winning? So they might stumble in anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Orlando is 27 and 29 in the seventh seed and they haven't been happy with their team for two months. No. Atlanta is 26 and 29. They're the eighth seed. They made two like borderline dump trades, the Hunter trade and the Bogdanovich trade. Those are trades you make when, um, you don't care where your season is going. They can't really dump cause they don't have their first round pick. But, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It all makes sense when you listen to it. That's at the tail end of this pod. My fingers actually worked. I wrote some stuff. So there you go. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Rob Mahoney is here. We are taping this part of the podcast late on Thursday night, 8 p.m. PT. Just watched a bunch of basketball and tied into what I want to talk about with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then you have Miami at the nine seed, 25 and 28, who just like, you know, I think they'd be maybe the second worst team in the West. Would you rather be Miami or Portland right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I want to audible to that as the second thing of the six pack. But before we do, the Embiid thing, do we see him again? He's played 17 games. Does he play 20?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
The problem is making the playoffs. Embiid could never play 14 games in four weeks. It's never happening. So even if you like miraculously won both playing games, I don't know where that's getting you. All right. The second thing you mentioned the draft pick. OKC gets Philly's first after the top six. So Philly keeps it first six spots. If it's the seventh pick, OKC gets it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But this is one of many things. This is the all-time, what the hell is happening in the first round thing. It's batshit. It's either 15 or six. There's so many teams. There's a couple of things I can't even really figure out who gets to pick. Yeah. So it's about half the league. OKC gets Phillies first after top six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They get Utah's first after the top, if it's out of the top 10, but Utah's probably going to keep that pick. Miami gets Golden State's first if it falls out of the top 10. I think that's probably happening. Atlanta gets Sacramento's first if it falls out of the top 12. I think that might happen. The Knicks get Detroit's first if it falls out of the top 13. I think that's happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So we already have four teams that are going to give their pick to somebody else. OKC gets Miami's first. If they don't make the playoffs, basically. So that's 50-50. We'll see. Then we have San Antonio gets Atlanta's first. Utah gets Minnesota and Cleveland's first. The Pelicans get the Lakers first. Brooklyn gets New Orleans first, Milwaukee's first, and the Knicks first. I think that's right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Does Brooklyn get New Orleans first?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I'm going to take that one out. Brooklyn gets Milwaukee's first and the Knicks first. Keep in the air. Orlando gets Denver's first. And then we have this trade where OKC can swap... and get the best pick from the Clips or Houston, their choice. Houston can take the second best pick and swap it to Brooklyn for Phoenix's first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Phoenix, I guess, loses the pick either way, and then the Clips get the worst of all those. I'm going to figure out that sequencing in about a month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
All of those picks I laid out, what is the most alarming to you for the team losing the pick? Oh, great question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
One thing I was thinking with all the OKC things in play, let's say they get the seventh pick from Philly. Yeah. And let's say they get Miami's pick because Miami's a playoff team and then they have their own pick. Yeah. And then they can also swap with the Clippers or Houston. So that's a middle. So they'll have four picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Three. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Three, including Philly's pick, which could be in the 7, 8, 9 range.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But then they have all these other picks because they have a million kajillion picks. Yep. And we've been watching this going, what are they going to do with all these picks? They already like their roster. They only have a couple of spots anyway. Could this be the year that they take that 7th, 8th, 9th Philly pick, if that's the pick, add like eight picks to it and just say, give us Cooper flag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Here's the all time mother load of picks. Like let's say Charlotte gets the first pick and they could just trade back like six spots. out of the Cooper flag spot and just get a war chest of the, the all time most picks ever in a trade from OKC just to move back six spots. You'd have to have like a four hour meeting about that. I feel like Cooper flags really good. Yep. I love him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I'm probably the highest on him out of, out of, uh, you know, cause he's a big intangibles guy and I know I'm going to overreact as we get closer to June. But you'd have to really think about it because it's not a Wimbinyama pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Stretch four. Can play some three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Doesn't need the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah, and I know whoever gets the first pick wouldn't want to trade him, but there's a price for everything, and there's a price to make you go, holy shit, you're going to offer me 220 cents in the dollar for this pick? But I honestly think that's what OKC has to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
The West, we're going to start with. You had Golden State win today. You had Dallas hold on and win. You had Minnesota beat OKC. And then you look at the West and you have all these teams jammed together. Golden State's the 10 seed with 27 losses. Minnesota's... The seventh seed with 25 losses. I'm the most interested in the Warriors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah. I don't even know how they fix it. And Adam Silver should not be the one explaining who gets what. They should maybe hire Bobby Marks just for three hours as his assistant, just to be over on the side, just letting out whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Well, OKC and San Antonio, San Antonio is the other team. Like if Atlanta's pick miraculously got in the top four and it got to like four, San Antonio would have enough assets to really try to climb three picks. So it'll come down to how generationally you think Cooper Flagg is. And, you know, I don't think he's in the Wemby Anthony Davis sure thing class.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You really have to believe in some other stuff. I personally think there's no way he misses because how competitive he is. But, you know, six, seven and a half. There's things you could, to me, he's the perfect stretch for, but we'll see. All right. Next thing on the six pack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Speaking of the draft, the Brooklyn Nets, the team that just won't tank, the team that has players telling reporters, hey, we're going to try to keep winning games. If you don't like it, don't root for us, which I love. So they're 20 and 34. They're one and a half games behind Chicago for the 10th seed. Which is tied with Philly, but does it feel the same as Philly to you, Rob?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Not even a little bit. They have a great coach. They made the mistake of... They kept Cam Johnson and Nick Claxton, but they also have D'Lo on the... I'm so happy not to be on the Lakers anymore. I'm going to go nuts. They're 6-1 in their last seven. Their defense held all seven opponents to under 100. Seventh net rating over that time. They bought out Ben Simmons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They traded Schroeder and they traded Finney Smith. And yet they're still hanging around. And this was not the plan. They made a trade with Houston. I'm sorry, with Houston to try to get their picks back and give them Phoenix picks. And they were going to tank. Now, I don't know. They might make the playoffs. What would you do if you were running Brooklyn?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Think of fake injury or think of playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And I've watched every minute of all of their games since they made this Jimmy Butler trade. And there's something here. And I don't know what it is yet, but I like it. I don't know where it's going to go. Their ceiling feels a little higher. I don't think they're going to win the title, but they're the most intriguing team to me. That's not Denver. The Lakers are obviously OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I saw this happen a decade ago with Brad Stevens and the Celtics and we were all going nuts because we wanted them to lose. But ultimately, you do build some sort of a weird DNA That you didn't just roll over, which brings me to the next person on my six pack list or next team, Charlotte, who has achieved peak tank. I don't know if you've looked at their box scores.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They tried to trade Mark Williams and couldn't get rid of him. And now I guess he's just in limbo as they fight about whether that trade was legal or not. Brandon Miller had surgery, which is too bad. They signed Alfred Payton and Taj Gibson, and both of them are playing. They have to play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They took on Nurkic in a salary dump. And Nurkic has now found his destiny where, you know, he'll have like a 27 rebound game where they still lose by 28. And then they also have LaMelo Ball, who's one of the great, great stats, bad team guys of the last 30 years. I thought it was hilarious that people are like, wow, how did he get left out of the All-Star game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
He just jacks up shots and they lose. He's not an All-Star. That's unkind.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Would you want to play with him for six months a year? Be honest. Would you want to be his small forward? Would you want to be Brandon Miller?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
This is the only team. I really like Charles Lee. I think he's a good coach. This is the only team I don't want Cooper Feig to go to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They certainly are. They're working it. Next one on the six pack. The Chicago Bulls. putting together the finishing pieces of an epic 10-year run, starting in the 15-16 season, 42-40, 41-41, 27-55, 22-60, 22-43, 31-41, 46-36 in the 22 season, lost in the first round, 40-42, 39-43, 22-33 with a chance to make the play-in again. This is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Reinsdorf's like manifest destiny just to, to, uh, to not pay luxury tax, to be somewhere near the plan, to not actually be a threat, to not really have a direction. It's like, are they tanking? Are they like they re-sign Lonzo Ball? They could have traded them for a first round pick that came out. Now they kept them, uh, They have Giddy. They have Kobe White. Kind of like Budzelas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I think they're the fourth most intriguing team to me, Rob.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Vucevic is still there. They overpaid Patrick Williams. I don't know what this team is. They don't either. And this is just what we're doing in the third biggest city in America, Rob. Apparently it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Also, what qualifier isn't a very good player, a star?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I don't think they have one very good player. I don't think Kobe White's very good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Very good to me is like if my son came home from school and I said, how did your history test go? And he said, very good. Okay. I'm thinking that's like an A minus. Very good is like really positive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They got nothing from Levine. They have no extra first-round capital other than this weird protected first-rounder they have from Portland that they'll probably never get. They have an absentee landlord as an owner. I think I would take every single team in the East's future over theirs. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah, Charlotte, the Brooklyn Picks. Yep. Even Philly, I have Maxie, and I have... you know, hopefully some tradable assets and maybe Embiid will come back. Maybe I could turn Embiid into something. I would rather have every other roster in the East over Chicago's. I don't even know what their number one asset is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Jordan Poole's probably better than anyone on the Bulls.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But I thought somebody should have traded for him. We talked about it last week. I actually think he's really figured some shit out and he's at least done it on a big stage before. But Jordan Poole's had an exceedingly... Yeah, I like Koulibaly and Saar and Carrington. They've got guys. They're okay. They're going to have cap space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
If I was a Chicago Bulls fan, I would be losing my mind. Rightly so. They're in the third biggest city in America. The Celtics are about to sell for between six and six and a half billion. So the Bulls are worth somewhere around there. Why can't they just sell the team if they're not going to run it correctly? It's a great question. How long can you live off the Jordan?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And how long can you be like, oh man, if D Rose didn't get hurt in round one, oh man, that was 13 years ago. I know. Last one on the six pack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You wanted to talk about the Suns, who have a net rate in their last 15 games of 18th, who in their last 58 games, including the playoffs, are 26 and 32, who tried to trade Kevin Durant for about a week before they told him or his agent or his manager that that was even happening. And now it's like, yeah, this summer they're probably going to trade KD. This is grim. What are you seeing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Well, the problem is they had a certain coach last year that they made the scapegoat for everything. Frank Vogel, who won the 2020 title. Um, they brought in coach bud, completely different philosophy. He's going to unleash these guys offensively and they're even worse. But to me, it's a talent problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I was, I was looking, I look right around this time where you have like, like I would say, okay, see Boston and Cleveland are the three best teams, right? In some order. And then you think like, they probably have the best rosters, the nine man rotation, uh, who would you take on a team like Phoenix? How many of their guys, other than the top two, would even play for one of the top three teams?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So that would be either Beal. Yeah. He would. I think Beal would play off the bench for at least Boston and Cleveland. I don't know about OKC. Maybe. Who's he playing over?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So you're giving him Isaiah Joe's minutes? Sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
OK, so he's in the seven, eight or ninth man range for the top three teams. Fair?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
OK.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
First guy off the bench. I would still rather bring Pritchard off the bench before him, but that's just me. Grayson Allen or Royce O'Neal, do they play for any of the top three teams in the top nine of their rotations?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah, it feels like I rounded them out. I also, like you mentioned the rebounding, the offensive rebounding, the free throws. That game yesterday that they played against Dallas, where it basically came down to Moody makes a corner three, I think they win. If Jimmy just goes to the basket with his right hand instead of crossing over, going to Kyrie, they might win that one too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Nick Richards?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Maybe Boston, like the Kata, the random Kata game. Maybe Nick Richards is getting that asset. I bring this up because it's just grim what Phoenix did with all the stuff they traded away. And, you know, I defended the Durant trade when it happened, or at least the idea of it. Even that night, none of us understood why Cam Johnson was in it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But when you're throwing in as many assets as they did, but then also paralyzing themselves to trade other picks and... I don't see you now. And I don't really know what Katie is worth this summer either. Yeah. That's not like a miraculous parachute out of here. He's going to, but that it's going to be his 19th season next year. What do you, what do you, what are you getting for him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Are you getting like Jalen green and a, a first and a... I don't know. What are you actually getting for Kevin Durant at this point in his career? He's got one year left in his deal?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
How many teams did Luka fuck up during his career in the Mavs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Because that game seven definitely was some sort of weird kados with the Suns. Yep. The Minnesota, the fact that they beat Minnesota, I don't know if they trade towns if they make the finals. Probably not. Then Dallas themselves. That's another one. Yeah. Right. So there's already... There's three with the blood on his hands. Yeah, the Phoenix thing feels like a wrap.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
We have not heard a lot from Ishbia lately. No. There are no fixes. And then they're in a conference where this can't happen. We're going to have San Antonio coming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
OKC's already there. Jokic, you're going down the line. It's like there's... This is it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But the symmetry of the team seems to make sense now because Jimmy, even though, what is he, 6'5", 6'6"?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Well, the sad thing is Brooklyn had... a few of those picks that they gave back to Houston to get their pick back so they could tank. And now they're not even tanking correctly, but they, those Phoenix picks are looking pretty juicy before we wrap up the six pack San Antonio. When do they throw the flag into this season? They're just far enough away that you could talk me into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
What does throwing in the flag look like? Some Wemby rest management. Some Wemby, hey, we need to sit him down for three games. We're worried about some fake tendinitis and some fake part of his body.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Counter?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
All right, wherever he is. There's a post-up element with them that they just didn't have before unless it was Kaminga. And when it's Kaminga, you lose some of the IQ stuff. With Butler, you don't. You get the IQ stuff. So now you have him with Draymond, with Steph. And it's funny to call them a high IQ team because they also make some of the stupidest plays you'll see every night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Portland could pretty easily pass them. They could be the third worst team in the West. And they would be either four or five or six teams worse than them in the East. They could be in the six to nine range with that draft pick, which puts you in... lottery mode. I actually really thought that they were going to make a little bit of a run and they just can't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I thought Boston really exposed some of the issues with them. I don't know if you're watching the game. They attacked Wemby in a really unique way that I haven't seen teams do before. And just in general, it just looked like two different classes of teams. And then you think the Warriors got better. I don't really see the path for them. Anything else you want to hit before we go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Rob, we're both on the Prestige TV podcast. Doing White Lotus. I'm doing the recap with your TV wife, Joanna Robinson, and Mallory Rubin on Sunday nights. And then you and Joanna are doing the pre-caps, diving into theories on Wednesdays. You can find that on, that's gonna be a video podcast on the Prestige feed. That's also on our Ringer-TV YouTube channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
What are you the most excited about White Lotus?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You live vicariously. Just like nice TV. Just kind of zone in. See the trees. There's a lot of monkeys. There's a lagoon. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Really good. Anyway, you can hear us both on the Prestige TV pod. You can hear Rob on the Ringer NBA show on group chat as well. And you can read him on an excellent website called theringer.com. Mahoney, good to see you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Saturday Night Live premiered on October 11th, 1975, the same night as game one of the World Series between Pete Rose's Big Red Machine and my beloved Boston Red Sox. I turned six two weeks earlier. I have one hazy memory from that shutout victory for the Red Sox in game one. It was Louis T on teetering around the bases, somehow scoring. while wearing a puffy blue warmup jacket. It was amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Was I sleeping later that night when John Belushi declared his intention to feed his fingertips to the Wolverines? Of course I was. But the 75 Red Sox were my first favorite baseball team and SNL eventually became one of my favorite TV shows ever. For the rest of the 1970s, SNL thrived in some alternate universe that just would not include me. We all knew about the show in school.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I don't think any team has sloppier, worse turnovers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
We knew it was funny. We noticed the commercials. We knew our parents stayed up to watch it, but we couldn't sample it until fourth grade because something special happened that year. That's when best of SNL shows started popping up in prime time as fillers for NBC's canceled shows. Suddenly the nerds, the coneheads, the wild and crazy guys, the cheeseburger guys, they all became part of our lives.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Needless to say, I loved everyone. I loved everything, but I really loved John Belushi. The Samurai Guy, Joe Cocker, the Chocolate Donuts commercial, the But No update monologues. This human being actually existed every week on some show way past my bedtime? How is this fair? How could I watch more? How could I get there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
We didn't have DVR, YouTube, or social media in 1979, as you could probably guess. Once that week's SNL host said goodnight, the episode vanished into thin air. The only time you would watch it again is if it was in a rerun that summer. So I was out of luck until fate intervened. That same winter, my parents separated and I became an only child with an insane amount of leverage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Leverage used for self-serving proclamations like, I don't care what my bedtime is. I'm staying up late for Saturday Night Live. So one of my first live SNL shows was hosted by Margot Kidder during Kidder's brief apex between Superman and Amityville Horror. Two movies that I like. You wouldn't remember this apex unless you're over 50 years old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But one of SNL's underrated traits as an American pop culture institution is It catches 90% of our most famous actors, actresses, and musicians at the exact point when they are precisely the most famous. Think about that. The most famous. That's SNL. The best sketch from that show? Kidder's Lois Lane character threw a birthday party for Bill Murray's Superman character.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And she invited some various superheroes to come along. And I'm watching it live. I'm just sitting there waiting for my guy Belushi. And at the three-minute mark, the doorbell rings. Kidder opens the door. There's Belushi. Strolls in cackling. He's covered in green. He's dressed like, oh my God, he's dressed like the Incredible Hulk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And even now you can listen for the audience laughing and clapping just at the mere sight of John Belushi. Because in 1979... There was no safer comedy wager in America than John Belushi as the Incredible Hulk. So he ambled over to Superman, shakes his hand, screams in mock pain. Oh, let go, let go, let go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then later he annihilates the bathroom with an Incredible Hulk poop as everyone recoils in horror. He comes out. Come on, take it easy. It's not supposed to smell like roses. I never laughed so hard in my life. This was done. This was a wrap. I had a new favorite guy, a new favorite show. I stayed up for a few more season four episodes, and then Belushi left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
He left with Dan Aykroyd for Hollywood, but I still watched all of season five. Once NBC started airing one-hour Best of Best in L shows on Wednesdays in the fall of 1979, suddenly kids like me could retroactively experience every famous sketch. Did NBC realize? Did they realize they were cultivating the next generation of SNL diehards? Of course they didn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
This was the same year they trotted out Super Train. There wasn't a dumber TV network than NBC in 1980, so we can call it a happy accident. But that summer, I made my father bring me to two R-rated movies, Caddyshack and the Blues Brothers, just to see Chevy and Murray and Belushi and Aykroyd. And that fall, we bought a cumbersome VCR and SNL became part of my life for good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Over the next five decades, the most important sketches and moments hinged on four impossible to totally measure questions. Factor number one, What was the impact in the moment? For instance, you might have a personal history of the Wayne's World franchise that's colored by two movies and a whopping 19 SNL sketches. You heard me, they did 19.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Maybe Wayne and Garth stopped making you laugh 25 years ago. I sure hope not because we're doing Wayne's World on Monday's Rewatchables. That still holds up, by the way. But the first Wayne sketch happened on Leslie Nielsen's February 89 show, not long after Mike Myers joined the cast when he was simply the guy in the credits who had the same name as the killer from Halloween.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
That's how we knew him. Then they did Wayne's World. Everything killed. Wayne killed. Garth killed. The whole cable show in a basement angle killed. You watched the sketch in the moment. You thought, I want more of these guys. Do this sketch again. And for me in the moment matters more than everything else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You know, you know, with more cowbell, Barry Gibb talk shows, Star Trek convention, Mr. Belvedere, you always know right away with SNL. So that's factor number one. Factor number two is the sketch still funny right now. A little less important because comedy, you know, sometimes doesn't age that great. Sometimes the things we thought were funny in 1994, we don't think are as funny now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It's also hinging on something that happened in the moment, sometimes, which is like one of the last Wayne's World sketches ever, which happened in 1994's Heather Locklear show, yet another host apex. And in the sketch, Wayne starts dreaming that he ended up in Melrose Place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Now, this is something that would make no sense to anybody who's under 40 and can't remember Melrose Place if they watched in 2025. But in the moment, It was one of TV's hottest shows. Sandler parroting Billy the Pee-Whip Boyfriend was the highest of high comedy. You have to believe me. Everyone despised that Billy character, only the internet didn't exist yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And we couldn't properly ridicule him. So Adam Sandler spoke for everybody. And that matters, even if the sketch itself hasn't aged well. Factor number three, does the sketch have any belated significance that transcended the sketch itself? Okay, here's a good example.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Will Ferrell's first SNL season, 1995, 1996, that followed the critically reviled season 20, which nearly submarine the show and left New York Magazine's infamous takedown cover story as its enduring legacy. How about that as a legacy? That summer, NBC makes a fuss. They're blowing up the cast. They're blowing up the writing staff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And you had a real sense the show was on life support, which would have been the third time in 20 years. We felt that way. So season 21, Merrill Hemingway is hosting the first episode. I'm visiting my buddy Jim Grady in Connecticut and we play shuffleboard until 4 a.m. at Sam's in Port Chester, where I'm still the GOAT.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
One of those nights when I woke up on Sunday morning with my contact lenses still in my eyes, unable to remember how I ended up on the sofa and wondering why I didn't have a blanket. Nobody else was awake. I loaded up SNL on Jim's TV and I watched through bleary eyes as Farrell's first big sketch comes on. Get off the shed. And again, I'm hungover as all hell. I can barely see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And this new cast member is jumping right off the screen at me. Who is this guy? He dragged at least four wheezy post-cigarette binge cough laughs out of me. And at some point, Jim heard me laughing and rolled out of bed and I immediately replayed Get Off the Shed for him. And now Jim was saying, who is this guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Later, Farrell plays a husband who kept coming up with off-color excuses to derail his wife and get her off the phone. That character was funny too. Combining the impact of those two sketches. You knew that your life in 1995 was suddenly 0.77% better with this Will Ferrell guy. You knew right away. And two decades later, Get Off the Shed isn't one of Ferrell's 10 funniest SNL sketches.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Husband Excuses probably doesn't crack the top 30. But that first episode mattered. There was a new sheriff in town. You needed to start watching SNL every week again. And that matters in the big scheme of things, right? So that's the third factor. The fourth factor, it's a cousin of In the Moment. Did you know immediately that something truly spectacular had just happened?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
All right, let's go back to 1975. Richard Pryor is about to host the 11th episode. They've already banked 10. SNL has already established itself as TV's most groundbreaking show. No comedy show belonged to the baby boomer generation until SNL showed up. This is a generation that devoured Rolling Stone. They devoured their rock music. They hated Vietnam and Nixon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They revered George Carlin, Richard Pryor. They loved improv. They loved Harper Lampoon. They despised traditional sitcoms and variety shows like Carol Burnett. They needed their own show. So after 10 episodes, Michaels, Lorne Michaels, figures out a show-to-show structure for that specific audience that barely looks different than the one today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Sketches, weekend update, music, comedy performances, short film, basically in that order. I don't think he ever intended the show to reach 30 million people some nights, but who the fucking predict this shit? So Pryor was that generation's hottest comedian. which meant no season one episode carried higher expectations. Chevy Chase had already become a huge star. What happens?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It becomes SNL's first Pantheon show. Pryor's monologue, predictably great. Exorcist parody kills. Pryor and Belushi did Samurai Hotel. And everything peaks with word association, which is a sketch that pitted two of comedy's biggest stars against one another, Pryor and Chevy Chase, who's the breakout guy for season one. And thanks to a sizzling performance by Pryor,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
The racial tension that builds during that sketch still plays 50 years later. It's not a sketch that's aged well, but it's one of the most important SNL moments ever because nobody had ever tried anything like it on live television before. This was dunking from the foul line shit. This was Dr. J in the ABA contest. That was word association.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So my favorite SNL episode ever also had my favorite SNL sketch ever and my favorite musical performance ever. This was when Stevie Wonder hosted. And they do this sketch called the Stevie Wonder Experience. This is eight years after Pryor, 1983. Wonder hosts right as Eddie Murphy is doing this wicked and slightly controversial impression of him. And Eddie's a huge star at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It's also a team that when Kaminga comes back becomes even more interesting because now they'll have multiple things to look at. They can ride him. There's some Butler Kaminga stuff already. I don't know if you've seen it. A little hint of I might take this guy under my wing. Okay. A little mutual admiration society stuff. Maybe I'll take him to Jimmy Butler grad school.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You're watching the show live and you're thinking, There's no way that he's going to do Stevie in front of Stevie, right? But you're secretly kind of hoping he would. So it finally happens in a sketch with Joe Piscopo, who's playing an agent. He brings in Stevie, who's a celebrity impersonator, and they audition for Murphy, who's a music executive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And the catch is that Stevie's character bills himself as the Stevie Wonder experience, only he's doing a Stevie impersonation. It's horrible. And Murphy goes, no, no, no, no, you're doing it all wrong. and proceeds to slip on a pair of sunglasses and the crowd goes batshit. And he does Stevie with Stevie standing right next to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So I'm 13 when this happened, which is probably the best age to fall in love with SNL, even though I was already in love. And you can think I'm crazy. I don't care. But the most exciting non-sports TV moments of the early eighties were this sketch, Letterman taking a show to LA and having Carson as a guest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Michael Jackson singing Billie Jean and doing the moonwalk on the Motown 25 special, which was amazing. Reagan getting shot by Hinckley. Roddy Piper smashing the coconut in Jimmy Snuka's head in the premiere of Thriller on MTV. And I can't accept any other arguments. Anyway, Eddie brings the house down with an impression of Stevie singing My Sharia Mornings. Unbelievably crushes it, kills it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Stevie's standing right there. Crowd settles down. Stevie tries his impersonation again. It's still terrible. Eddie takes over, nails it a second time. Crowd settles down. Scene shifts back to Stevie for one last attempt. And only this time, fake Stevie suddenly turns into real Stevie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And he belts out an acapella version that's, you can't even describe how good it is because nobody brought it quite like Stevie in his prime. He nails the last note and the studio erupts like someone made a mid-chord shot to win a tournament game. If you watch the tape, Piscopo breaks character. He lets out this delighted yelp. That's how remarkable it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So I know he's a first bout Hall of Famer. I know he's a musical icon. but I can't imagine Stevie Wonder ever bringing the house down quite like that. And Eddie pushed him there. Of course, Eddie never breaks character. He waits for the applause to die down and waits an extra second. And then he finally says, nah, man, it still sucks. Huge laugh, perfect ending.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
One of the greatest sketches in the history of the show. And at that specific moment, You would bet anything that Murphy would be one of the biggest stars in the world someday. But that's what made him such a unicorn. By sheer coincidence, by dumb luck, an SNL show that desperately needed energy and diversity and a real star stumbled into someone basically created by God to appear on the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So of the biggest stars in SNL history, Only Eddie broke into show business on the show. He was a cast member at 19. He was the show's meal ticket by 20. He was a movie star by 21. And he was a full-fledged super duper star by 22 and headed to Hollywood for good at 23. We will never see it again. He's the most talented SNL cast member ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
He's the only one to host the show when he was starring on it. And for that and many other reasons, I have Eddie as the SNL GOAT cast member, and I'll fight people in a bar if they want to come up with somebody else. Here's the thing. Only Eddie and Will Ferrell could carry an entire season by themselves. This is like you're using the 2009 LeBron and the Cavs analogy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So download the app today, Bet With FanDuel, an official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
How many guys could you win 60 games with if they were the only really good guy in the team? That was Eddie and Will Ferrell, and that's really it. So if you're building the hypothetical GOAT SNL cast, I think you have to have Eddie and Farrell or I can't take the list seriously. It's non-negotiable. But what would the rest of the cast look like? Well, three things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Not teach him the stuff from the last year in Miami, but the first couple years. One of the things that's been so much fun to watch with these Golden State games is just having Butler back As an invested, happy, engaged guy in the sidelines doing like fish bumps. Just super competitive aggro and not looking like he just lost his dog. And that he wants to just walk off the court.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
First of all, SNL needs to move like a basketball team. You need an eight-man rotation. You need one wild card off the bench. You want enough minutes for everyone. This is always the mistake the show makes over the years when they have these big, fat, swollen casts. You have a 90-minute show with commercials. It's really about 67 minutes of content. You have weekend update.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You have two musical acts. So maybe five, six sketches max plus a couple update things. You don't need 17 people. You need eight, maybe nine. So we'll have the wild card. We'll have the Dion Waiter spot. That's one. Second, the best SNL cast members can either carry a sketch or glue guy a sketch. And the glue guy thing is super important because that's what Phil Hartman was the best at.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You have to be able to do both. You can't just be a one man show. And in this case, it's a lot like basketball. Can you take over a game? Can you set other people up? Can you play characters? Can you play the straight man? Can you sell other people? Can you do anything? You want a whole cast of these people. Again, you got to think like it's a basketball team. You want the ball to move around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then the third thing is I was trying to include different errors to the best of my ability. So Eddie and Farrell ran. I got seven spots left. Phil Hartman was the best glue guy in the show's history. Dana Carvey, who I think is the most underrated male cast member now, he would have thrived on any cast for the entire 15 years and was a force of nature. Same for Bill Hader.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So there's five, and I don't think you can leave any of them off. Eddie, Farrell, Hartman, Carvey, Hader. Best female cast member ever. It's still Gilda Radner. It's not fun to say because she was on the first cast and she kind of had the title to begin with. And then other people probably tried to take it from her, not knowing, but she's still the best.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
She's the best female cast member in the history of the show. Kristen Wiig was right up there. So she's included to that seven. And I thought Maya Rudolph was the most underrated female cast member ever. She could carry any type of sketch. She could do all the musical stuff. So that would be my eight. And then obviously for the wild card, I got to have Belushi.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So I have Eddie Farrell, Gilda, Wig, Hartman, Hater, Carvey, Maya, and Belushi. I'm rocking with those nine. My weekend update guy, Norm MacDonald. Come on. Still living on social media 30 years later. They're still running his jokes from update. So I have Norm. I'm turning over all digital videos. I'm doing a time machine loop here to Andy Sandberg and Adam Sandler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They're just going to work together, even though they're from different eras. Knock yourself out, guys. And then I have the following 10 hosts, Tom Hanks, John Goodman, Steve Martin, Chris Walken, Alec Baldwin, Dave Chappelle, Emma Stone, Ariana Grande, Melissa McCarthy, and Candice Bergen. If you're drawn from all the eras, that's the best 10 you're going to come up with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But remember, this is my list. Doesn't mean it's right. I've only been watching the show for my entire life. What do I know? All right. 10 best episodes ever. So these are my 10. They might not be your 10. These are mine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Stevie Wonder, 1983, which had the Stevie experience, had the Canon camera ad, Dion the hairdresser, and three Stevie songs, including him singing Overjoyed, which is the best musical moment in the history of the show. That's one I won't argue about. Go watch it if you don't believe me. The crowd goes nuts and just keeps cheering. It's like a sporting event. So I have that episode.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Richard Pryor, 1976. which also had two standups from him too. It had Samurai Hotel, Word Association, the Chevy Weekend Update. That's the first great SNL show. Jim Carrey in 1996, which was the last episode of the aforementioned comeback season. This is Carrey at the peak of his powers. He's coming off... He'd had the mask and he's Ventura. He's Dumb and Dumber.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
He's suddenly one of the biggest movie stars and SNL had rejected him. So he comes out with a huge chip on his shoulder. There's Fireman Bill, Night at the Roxbury, Joe Pesci's show with Jimmy Stewart, does the cheerleaders, does Jacuzzi Lifeguard. Also, you had Norm on Update who was on fire and you had a David Spade Hollywood Minute. So this is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So I'm glad to have him back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Probably the best show of the last 30 years that they had. And by the way, Soundgarden was the guest. Steve Martin in 1978. This was why they considered to be the best show of the Belushi-Ackroyd-Murray era. Blues Brothers as the musical guest. Steve Martin said, it was the peak of me. Actual quote, King Tut did the wordless guild, the dancing scene, wild and crazy guys, medieval barber.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
There was a point counterpoint on Weekend Update with Jane Curtin and Dan Aykroyd that I always enjoyed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
when uh jane would make her point and then dan would go jane you ignorant and uh a joke that would not fly 50 years later but it was really funny because that's what newscasts were like back then it was these males just dominating the show and the woman was over there so they're paired in that really funny nerd science fair was on that as well all right fifth one tom hanks in 1988 which i think is in the running for best season opener ever and probably was this had the bush to caucus debate
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Dan Aykroyd as Bob Dole. John Lovitz as Dukakis going, I can't believe I'm losing to this guy. So I have that. There's a parody of the movie, Big. Dennis Miller's on update. They do the all-drug Olympics on this one. They played a game show called Jew, Not a Jew. That's actually pretty funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
They did the Girl Watchers thing with Lovitz and Hanks where they're just like, my forehead's just a little too big and all that stuff. Mr. Short-Term Memory, Hans and Franz. Great episode. So this is, I think the most underrated episode for me, David Allen Greer in 1995.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
they do the wake up and smile sketch where the teleprompter and the morning show breaks and they all kind of turn on each other. Lord of the fly style. It's unbelievable. It's one of the 10 best sketches. So that's on there. Spade does Hollywood minute. Will Ferrell does a Brian Boitano impersonation. Ted Koppel as doing a Michael Jackson, Jack Obacco.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
David Allen Gray plays Brian Gumbel off camera as like this real kind of basically like a crazy hood. It's hilarious. And then Norm was on update. So I'm putting that one on there. You also had, uh, Daryl Hammond on that show as Bill Clinton reviewing American president and talking about how much he loved that the, uh, the wife died and then silver chair was somehow the musical guest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So you have that William Shatner in 1986, this had Star Trek convention and Alzheimer's Sweeney sisters at Christmas, uh, TJ hooker parody. They had the star Trek five restaurant enterprise. This is one of the top seven shows ever. They've did a wonderful life parody. Tom Hanks in 1990. Hanks with two of the top seven for me. This is the one when Aerosmith came on. Aerosmith was on Wayne's world.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Hanks was the groupie doing the siblings, siblings, short term memory, tales of ribald, ribaldry, um, girl watchers, Miller and update, probably the best SNL cast of, of that era. Um, So I have that. I have Eddie Murphy's comeback show in 2019, which was emotional because nobody ever thought he was going to come back after the show made fun of him a couple of times. He finally came back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
He did all his old characters and it was awesome. Christopher Walken in 1992, where he did Trivial Psychic, Perot and Stockdale, The Continental, Stock Talk. There was a Sinead O'Connor parody. There was a Pat sketch. There was a Hollywood Minute and Jay and Brady on Weekend Update and Arrested Development. So that's... That's my top 10.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I also have, as Honorable mentioned, Timberlake in 2006 when he did Dick in a Box and Barry Gibbs Show. Lindsay Lohan in 2004 when she was in that famous Debbie Downer sketch. There was also a really funny Harry Potter sketch. Sting in 1991, which had the Sinatra group in it and some other stuff. Eddie Murphy when he came back to host in 1984.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
John Goodman in 1998, when he, when, uh, this is the episode they did Neil Diamond storytellers, but he also played Linda trip with Monica Lewinsky. Uh, there was a morning latte thing. It's just a really good episode start to finish. And then Adam Sandler, 2018, when he came back, he played the Farley song, which is, I think one of the most emotional moments in show history. And then, uh, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Betty White in 2010 when she came back. It was really fun. So for my favorite sketches ever, and these are in no particular order, the Tony Bennett show, the first time Baldwin did this when he had David Guest and Liza Minnelli on it, lines were crossed. That is still one of the five funniest sketches for me. It makes me laugh so hard. They sing a song together. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It's making me laugh thinking about it. The Sinatra group with Phil Hartman when there was a parody of the McLaughlin group and he's got Billy Idol on there and Luther Campbell and he's just killing everybody. I watched this in college with my buddy Jacko, who was my roommate at the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
We watched it on a Sunday morning after we woke up, but I think we watched it five times and we were talking like Sinatra, yelling at Steve and Edie for the rest of the week. Stevie Wonder experience I mentioned. The Neil Diamond Storytellers, that's the one where... Will Ferrell as Neil Diamond. Just going off the rails and being like, this is a song about my hatred of immigrants.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Just incredible stuff. Mr. Belvedere fan club. This is a fan club for Mr. Belvedere, Tom Hanks hosting, where they're all deciding how to interact with Mr. Belvedere. And it's really about fan obsession, but it's really, really good. Jackie Rogers Jr., Jack Potwad. That's with Martin Short. That was the funniest character he played on there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Dysfunctional Family Dinner with Sarah Michelle Gellar when Will Ferrell with the family is like just kind of eating, but then they would yell at each other and calm down. More Cowbell, you know that one. Buckwheat Gets Shot and Buckwheat Died, those two are classics. The first Barry Gibb talk show, I have that one. Debbie Downer at Disney, a classic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Greg the Alien, I think the most underrated Will Ferrell sketch where he's hosting a sports show, but he might be an alien. Star Trek convention with Shatner when he has all the Star Trek people and he's like, what's wrong with you people? And starts yelling at them. Reagan, the mastermind. Phil Hartman is Reagan. The Referee Pittman show is one of my most underrated ones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
John Goodman as Referee Pittman. It's a talk show and all the... All the people in the audience are like, hey, referee Pittman, how do you shove your head up your ass? Is it like, do you have to bend out? And it's just, they're just making referee jokes. Chippendale sketch with Chris Farley. Comedy killers, which was like Jeopardy, but with comedy killers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then the final answer ends up being the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Incredible. Unfrozen caveman lawyer. Dysfunctional family feud.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Trivial Psychic, Farley the first time he did Matt Foley, Nick Cage and Tiny Elvis, Wake Up and Smile, which I mentioned earlier, Night at the Roxbury with Jim Carrey, which was just unbelievable because they had done the sketch a couple of times and then he came in and just physically was somehow outshone both of those guys. Election Night 2016.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I don't have a lot of ones from the last 10 years just because you got to age with those, but Election Night 2016 with Chappelle. When everyone at the party is talking about how this is the worst thing that ever happened and Chappelle's doing Chappelle's stuff, great. And then Bargatze's Washington Dream thing was really good and they've done two of those.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
But that was, I think, of the last five years, probably the... probably one of the greats. And then the only other one I forgot to mention was the Joe Montana one, Sincere Guys Do. And Joe Montana is the biggest star in football and he's on there and you can hear his thoughts and his thoughts were, I'm going to go upstairs and masturbate. And it just was like shocking to hear Joe Montana say that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
So that would be my episodes. And then just for the hell of it, musical acts. Best musical performance ever. Stevie Wonder overjoyed. Second best. Paul Simon when he sang the boxer right after 9-11. Really great. I think one of the best moments in the history of the show with all the New York firefighters standing there and Giuliani. It's really special.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Queens of the Stone Age when they played Little Sister in 2002 and Pharrell came out and did the cowbell. Amazing. U2 did I Will Follow at the end of an SNL episode in 2004 and ended up kind of... They broke the fourth wall and kind of went in the audience. That was amazing. The bus boys saying boys are back in town in 1983, right at Eddie's apex. And Eddie just went out and sang it with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And Dallas in the first half of last night's game tried to use the Draymond-Jimmy Lack of shooting from deep thing against them. And then Golden State figured that out. They went with a small ball thing. Dallas didn't have their centers last night, so it's hard to make too much out of it. But they went small. I guess Jimmy was the four. And then they had Moody and Pazemski and Curry with Draymond.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And it felt like a moment. Run DMC, walk this way, 1986. White stripes, dead leaves. in 2002, which is just like Jack White and Meg White at their fucking apex. It's awesome. Billy Joel sang Miami 2017 in 1981. It's really good. Nirvana, Teen Spirit, 1992. Blues Brothers, Soul Man, 1978. Really fun to watch though. Outkast sang Mrs. Jackson in 2002. Pearl Jam Porch, In 1992, you know I love that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You know I love Porch and Pearl Jam. Hole was awesome. They sang Violet in 1994. I would encourage you to find any of these, by the way. Billie Eilish, Bad Guy, 2019. Visually, it was amazing. Cannon Crowe sang Round Here in 1994. And it was their first song, not their second one. And they crushed it. And it basically made them a hit band. which is the power of that show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
If you crushed SNL, your albums took off. Sinead O'Connor, Last Day, 1990. Last Day of Our Acquaintance, 1990. The Prince song that was actually her song. And she's incredible in that. And then two years later comes back and does the Pope thing and almost commits a career suicide. Although now I think it's played out better for her. Kendrick in 2014 sang I. And it's great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Bowie did the Man Who Ruled the World in 1979, which was, I think, one of the coolest visual ones. Eminem and Dre sang still in 1999. And it's awesome. And then the last one I would recommend if you want to go look up any of these is Stevie Nicks' Stand Back in 1983. Because there's some guy that is dancing during the performance. You'll know it when you see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It's a moment unlike anything ever in the show. And also, it's a really good song. So that's what I got. Those are all my SNL thoughts. I can't wait to watch SNL 50. If you want to read what I thought about SNL 40, it's in the Grantland archives actually from 10 years ago. But that's it. Those are all my thoughts. I word dumped them out to you on the pod and on the YouTube.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
You can watch me actually stumble through this. So there you go. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rob Mahoney. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal as well. Don't forget, Prestige TV podcast this weekend, White Lotus. Sunday night, me and Joanna and Mallory are going to be breaking all of it down. New rewatchables coming on Monday, Wayne's World.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And that will be the first video podcast on Spotify. Very excited about that. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on this feed on Sunday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And it was fun. They were like hustling around and it was old school Draymond. Here's the thing I'm watching with them. And I've been watching this for a while. And I really started thinking about it with the Ringer 100, with that exercise of... just trying to rank the best players against each other. And Curry was just a blind top seven, top eight guy. I'm not positive he's there anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And I don't know where he is in the top 20. But there's two things I've noticed. One is the consistency of being great just doesn't seem there. He's become a once a week, I'm awesome guy. He doesn't have the great kick-ass games that he used to have. And I actually went through... And I just looked at two things, because this is hard to kind of quantify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
How do you measure somebody's ceiling as a great player versus where it's been the last 10 years? He's 36 years old. You can look at all the counting stats. They're down a little bit, but not like too much. But the thing that was interesting to me, so in 2016, his second MVP season, he had 13 40 plus point games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then if you go on basketball reference, that weird game score thing they have that I think I mostly like, it's at least, it's something. You know, if you're in the high 20s or higher, that means something good happened with the game you played.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It's that you did a bunch of things well in the same game at kind of an unusually high level. So about 29 is a really nice game score in basketball reference. Again, arbitrary. But he had 24, 29 plus games from a game score standpoint in 16. This season he has three. This season, he has zero 40-point games. So even if you go back to 2022, he had seven 40-point games in their final season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
We added a new podcast to the Ringer Podcast Network and Spotify. It is Good Hang with Amy Poehler. She's great. It's going to be a huge, big, fat, awesome podcast. Subscribe, follow on Spotify. Premieres next week. We're also brought to you by the Ringer. podcast network. I put up a new rewatchables in honor of SNL 50. We did the Blues Brothers, me, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
He had 10 29-plus game-scorer games. In 23, he had 13 29-plus game-scorer games. The point is, every once in a while, Steph Curry was like, we're not losing tonight. I'm Steph Curry. I'm just going to have an awesome game. And that's really not what I'm seeing from him in the same way this year. And I wonder if it changes after the All-Star break, or is this just who he is at age 36?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
I don't know the answer. What do you think?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah, if you're saying what defender makes a guy who's in the paint who realizes he's open run full speed at him like he's running out of a cabin in a horror movie. Steph is still number one in this. The other piece of it is they had to work so hard to get him offense in the first half of the season with this goofy team they had. And he also had to play a lot because their record wasn't that good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And I do wonder with the reset of the break and then the Jimmy piece of it and the symmetry of the offense coming into play a little bit and then Kaminga comes back, maybe it'll be easier for him to rack it up and have. The thing that would make him special were like the 16-point third quarters and just the little scoring barrages. That's what's not happening anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then you throw in the sloppiness. Like their clutch record this year, I think they're just like 500. And they've blown a bunch of dumb games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
The reason I think it's important, and I'm not doing the ESPN thing where it's like, just A block, just talk Warriors or Lakers, and that's it. That's the rule. I really do think there's something here. I think there's something here with the Butler, Curry, Draymond thing. I kind of like their role, guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And I think if they can hang around, hang around, hang around, there's a competitive kind of intuitive infrastructure that some of these other teams don't have. Like, I don't trust Houston to have it. Memphis, I don't know what to make of anymore. I just assume Ja's not playing now. When I turn Memphis on, it's like surprising to see him. It's one thing after another with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And then Minnesota is a mess. I don't try... Especially when Edwards has... Edwards has had two really, really, really awful games in a row. They did win tonight. They beat OKC. But just... I don't, maybe Minnesota would be the only one I see that I could see in the conference finals. I don't think it's gonna be Dallas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
OKC Denver, is there anybody else you have on your radar to maybe make the West finals and do like what Dallas did last year? Dallas catches fire. They have that streak. All of a sudden they're in conversation. Who is that this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
It was a podcast you can watch as well on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Starting next week. Video podcasts on Spotify of The Rewatchables. Everyone going forward, you'll be able to watch on the Spotify platform. We're doing another SNL movie next week. I might even spoil it at the end of this podcast. So you can stay tuned for that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
And yet... And Gobert didn't play tonight either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Murray came back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Yeah, we had like a heart-to-heart with 1,100 Nuggets fans. Like, this Murray thing is bad. Like, you guys, this is alarming what's happening. But... The best case scenario was, ah, he just needs to play himself in shape. Yep. And he did. He played himself in shape. And he looked noticeably skinnier within three weeks. His burst came back. The 55-point game he had this week was not an aberration.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney
Like, he's been blowing by people and looked like Murray. So now, all of a sudden, those Jokic 48-point games, like, those are out the window. You don't need them anymore. Now he's back to being the... By the end of the third quarter, he's got 22, 12... nine. Porter's also playing better. They just look like the Nuggets again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And now we're going to be working together again because Zach Lowe is coming to The Ringer and he's coming to Spotify and he's going to have his podcast and we are going to launch it Next week, Zach is going to be on my podcast on Tuesday. We're going to catch up on basketball and a whole bunch of things. Get ready. We have a trailer coming. We have the podcast name.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That wasn't the way to go at Rosillo. I would have attacked Blake Ladley in the town.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But will this change when I watch Memphis, especially in the last four minutes?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's just going to the basket. Right. And he's probably if he's not the most electric guy in the league going to the basket with the game on the line, he's in the top three. And that's what you're doing over and over again. I would say this with with other guys, too, in a playoff series. I kind of feel like I know what Memphis is doing in the last three minutes. And guess what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They're going to give Joe the ball. He's going to go to the basket. And over the course of four rounds, either I'm stopping it or he's getting hurt. And I think that's the point of the career that he's at. And that's why, you know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's, Verno, he's played 301 games in six years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
301 total.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
We were doing, are the Grizzlies the stealth title contender in the league before the season? Now I'm going to do a celebration if they win one round?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
True. Okay. So now, do I think. I have a question for Rosillo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Russillo, is job better in any way from three years ago? No, it's way worse. From what you've seen. You think it's worse?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think he might even, I don't even know if Zach knows this, but there might be a TikTok. So lots of good stuff coming. But obviously Zach's one of the best people I've ever worked with and was really hoping at some point in life we would get to work together again. So it's happening and it's going to be in time for the end of the NBA season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, there's two questions, right? Can he grow up and mature? We've seen guys do it, especially as they hit their mid-20s. The other problem is the durability thing. I was shocked. I was looking at his basketball reference. I thought there was one season when he played. He hasn't played more than 2,100 minutes in a season ever. I look at something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And then you look at like the three point shootings, not better. The free throw attempts are going down from where they were a couple of years ago. I just, all that stuff worries me. The team's getting worse. This coach just got fired. And it seems like, you know, I don't know if this is, I was asking around trying to get, trying to get basically gossip about the situation from people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
What do you think happened? And the consensus, which may or may not be true, is that the organization and the GM was higher on Ja as the face of a franchise than the coach was. And that became a real issue between the two sides.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You don't think that's true?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Do you think Taylor felt like he could succeed with Ja long term?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But that is an issue, though. That's part of the Ja thing, that you're building a franchise around a guy who you don't know if he's going to be out there or not. That's a real thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
We're going to get his awards, which I always loved reading, and then we'll get him for the playoffs and beyond. So, Zach Lowe, welcome aboard. Couldn't be happier about it. Coming up, I'm going to talk to Ryan Rosillo and Chris Vernon at the very top because we've got to find out what's happening in Memphis. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, recording just after 6 p.m.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
What the Pistons did this year when they got some of their old guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Oh, is that true?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's Contra 29.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But, Bruno, they violated my too many guys theory too. How many guys in that roster are like, I could be playing 35 minutes right now? You can't have more than like 11 of those. Like I saw Gigi Jackson got sent to the G League, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Oh, it's Desmond Bain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I have a question for Ursula. And, Verno, you're not allowed to answer because you would be too positive on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
If I have Ja and Bain and Triple J... for the next five years? Is that enough? Is that, could that be my version of a big three or do I need to start thinking where am I going to be two years from now? And do I need to trade Bain or, or, uh, or Ja? Can I build around those three guys and build an actual title team around those three guys?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, here's the thing. To me, this is the crux of the issue.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, they were down big.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He was awesome. And then they just gave up layups on the other end. This is the NBA that I, you know, in the 90s, This was the NBA that was kind of so fascinating and so depressing. At the same time, we had all these awesome players and teams just giving up on them or wondering if they should give up on them or I don't want to trade this guy because they might blossom.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And they went everywhere from Kenny Anderson, Leitner, Derek Coleman. But then there would be the C-Web trade where Washington's like, ah, I don't know. We know the talent's in there, but Fine. We just got to bring a vet. Let's get Mitch Richmond. Then C-Web goes to the Kings and he's awesome. And I think that's the fear when you have one of these guys, you're not winning with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I mean, they're winning, but they're not going to actually like win the title of job right now. You don't want to trade them either because you don't want to trade them. And then two years from now, you look like a complete shithead because he's in the Western finals averaging 32 a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And what happened to Ja?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Russillo is here as always on Sunday nights. Chris Vernon joining us from Memphis. Memphis was in the news this week. They fired their coach. It was shocking. I guess it wasn't that shocking if you looked at their record last 25 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Can you walk us through how much he means to Memphis? Because that's the part we're still in. I can get like what? Like how popular is he on a scale of one to ten? What does he mean? Big picture.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But, Verno, before we find out from you what happened, Russillo, give us your 30-second reaction to finding out Memphis had fired their coach with three weeks left in the season when they were a top-five seed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I went to the Chicago game a week ago. He was fighting with literally every ref. He was arguing with the players of the other team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
All right. Now, Verno's inside take. Verno, you're in Memphis. You also host the mismatch for us. But you're in Memphis. You're doing all the pregame shows. You have the radio show. This is your city. Were you surprised?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, I think Houston will be underdogs against all three teams if Kawhi is playing. I'll wait to see if Kawhi is playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
There must be Cleveland today without Kawhi.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He looked awesome. I saw him in person on Sunday night against OKC. And it just seems like he has his bounce. I don't know how long it's going to last, but he had the same bounce that he had like five, six years ago. And he's so big. Now, they didn't have Jalen Williams in that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But OKC, other than Jalen Williams, doesn't even have somebody, even Dortz, who I think has a chance to be defensive player of the year, as crazy as that sounds. Dortz is like 6'2". He's guarding Kawhi. Kawhi's got a legitimate six inches on him. Can we talk about Houston for a second? They're 14-6 in their last 20. Dortz is not 6'2", by the way. Oh, I think he's 6'2".
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
How tall do you think he is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I'm telling you, I was watching him in the game and I was sitting next to Mike Tolan, who I share the seats with, and we were trying to figure out how tall he was as he stood next to other players. We were like, that dude looks 6'2". But Jack guys always look shorter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Bain's like 6'7".
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, here's the thing with Houston though. 7-2 against the Cavs, Celts, and Clippers. OKC seems to be the only team that has their number. But the Jalen Green, has he sucked you in post-All-Star break, Rosillo? 22-6-5. They're talking about how the assist numbers are up. He's creating for other guys. Are you buying in yet or no?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The Van Vliet step back with two seconds left for the shot clock?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Hold Minnesota for a second. One other thing happened with Houston. Your guy, Eason, has started to come on for them. To me, I think there's a couple teams, Verno, that I just can't figure out what the ceiling-basement situation is. And it sounds like a cop-out to be like, yeah, I don't know. But Minnesota's like that for me and Houston's like that for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I can actually see with the amount of athletes and the defense that Houston has. I could actually see them just destroying somebody in round one. We're like, oh, my God, the Rockets are here. And I could also see them shooting 22 percent from three during entire series getting blown out. Same thing for Minnesota, where you see him on the right night and you're like, shit, they're fucking loaded.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And they look like they like playing with each other. And then you catch them another night. It's not there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Those are my two teams where I just I don't know what to think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That's what the Celtics did in Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, you have the second guy and then you have the knock yourself out guy. And we haven't talked about this. Somebody is having a, Hey, if he's going to make it, knock yourself out. Uh, somebody is now, if we did the all NBA team for that, Kyle Kuzma has my first team vote right now. Cause teams are playing Milwaukee. They're just like, that's right. Yo Kuz. Go ahead. Feel free. No, take it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Because there's like, oh, shit, Reeves is in the corner. Oh, shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Oh, I forgot to guard Luka for a second. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Or McDaniels is one for ten.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You know, on Minnesota... There's some good advanced metrics for them, too. Like, their last 25 games, their sixth net, last 15, their fourth net, all the three-point shooting has been really good for them. Edwards has been better the last two months. They got a really good coach, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, I'm trying not to get sucked in with them, but conversely, the Nuggets, who I think, Rosello, I think we haven't really talked about it, but I think we have equal concern. with our guy Joker. I just feel like their best, when they play the really good teams, it just doesn't seem like they have enough. Like they're 0-7 against Boston, Cleveland, and Minnesota.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
In their last 50, their 20th net and their negative net. And it just feels like there's certain nights where if Jokic isn't awesome, they're going to almost get blown out. You know, I'm really worried about them in the playoffs because I don't want... That's a team, like if you were going to say, what team is going to get swept in round one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
and everybody would be shocked, that would be one of my candidates. And by the way, I also wouldn't be surprised if they made the Western Finals. That's why the West is so fucking hard to figure out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Does anyone have more knock yourself out guys than Denver, though? I mean, Denver has half of their start. Half of their 10 minute rotation is go ahead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So last 25 games, there were 11 and 14, 15th net rating, as you mentioned. And I didn't even realize that they hadn't had a good win in that long until you texted us that. And I went back and looked at the schedule and I was like, oh my, my God. I, I guess Priscilla, the thing that with, when you do something like this,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah. You know, I will say this... If you, Verno, please tell your new coach, the Finnish guy, what's his name? What's Finnish guy's name?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Frank Isola's brother, Tomas Isola.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Coach T.I., listen, if you play the Lakers, and this to me is coaching malpractice if anyone doesn't do this in the playoffs, you got to pressure those fucking guys 94 feet. Luka and LeBron bring the ball up. Neither of them want anybody to bug them until they get to midcourt. Luka gets actually mad. He almost punched Josh Giddey in the game I went to last week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
LeBron will just pass it immediately. And you just got to like... You got to wear those guys down. It's almost like a football game where you're just like running up the middle, trying to make the defensive line tired.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, but I think you're going to have to like if OKC plays the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Right. In the playoffs, though, if I'm like like if they play Memphis or Houston or whoever, that's those are the perfect teams to play. Hey, Tyrese and 94 feet with these guys. When you're in the game, you got to do it because I do think you can wear them down. Those guys have a big responsibility and they can't guard anybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, they do have some wild card guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I like how it's played this year. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Verno, we're going to let you go. Say hi to everybody in Memphis. Say hi to my favorite team tomorrow. I hope they do well against you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It was like our fifth game in seven nights, something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
it makes me think that they think they still have a chance to make the Western finals and it wasn't going to happen with the current situation, but if they can change the coaching, maybe they have a chance to make the Western finals. And I think I disagree, but on the other hand, like this was the team everyone wanted to play in the West.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No excuses.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
How dare you? How dare you? Bye, Verna. Thanks for coming on. We're going to take one more break. And now for a special part of the show brought to you by Workday. Are you a forward thinker? Then you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do. Workday, the AI platform that helps propel your organization, your workforce, and your entire industry into the future.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Workday, moving business forever forward. Rosillo, we've watched two weeks of March Madness. Your single favorite non-Cooper flag prospect that you've seen? The one that just puts a hop in your step?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Clayton jumped out to me as well, and I looked at our draft guide to see if he was in the top 14, and he wasn't. And I don't think he's even a first-round pick right now, right? But... I don't know. I thought the same thing you did. He seemed completely unafraid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Guys have fooled us of March Madness though, where they look awesome and they make big shots and we go, but that guy, those were some big ass shots because it wasn't just that last one you mentioned.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, thanks again to Workday for sponsoring this segment. Learn more at Workday.com. So we're going to do a gimmick called the NBA Forgotten. Teams that just don't get talked about enough on shows like this. And we did a couple of them, actually. We did Minnesota. We did the Rockets. Talked some Clippers. There is this Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee trifecta.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You know, like if you were in the 6-7-8 range, you were like, man, it would be really cool if we could play Memphis. So I think that's why you make the change. But I don't think they have enough talent to be dangerous in the West. Do you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And it looks like where we're landing now, Detroit... um, is not going to play the Knicks, which is a huge bummer. And we're, because I was really excited for that series. We, before we started recording today, Detroit gets into another altercation in Minnesota that we probably could have predicted. I wish there was a way to bet on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Does Stewart lead the league in standover guy moments this year? Is he our number one standover guy guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But if I compared him to run our test, maybe with you on this podcast a week ago, I said there was run our testy vibes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
The Prestige TV podcast, we broke down episode seven, the second to last episode of White Lotus, season three, me, Mallory, Joanna. You could check that out on Spotify on video. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed our Prestige TV podcast about White Lotus Episode 7, go check that out. Rewatchables is coming Monday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So you think Beef Stew is just going to randomly come in and throw the quick punch as he's going to break it up?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That was the Indiana Pacers issue. Yeah. You can't have our test with Steven Jackson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, I looked at, it's funny you did the last 50. I did the last 25 before today because they got shellacked in the second half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah, I did it this morning. 17-8 in their last 25 before today. They were third net rating, but they were fifth offense, second defense. And I put in all caps as a question to ask you, At what point do we take the Pistons seriously? Because that's a really big sample size.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I remember like three weeks ago, we talked about, could there be a team like Dallas last year where we just didn't take them seriously, but there were all these signs in the last 30 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Right. So with Detroit, they add Schroeder, who is in the equivalent of Gafford and P.J. Washington, but he did give them a little extra balance and, and a different look and crunch time. And he's somebody who's been in big games and he's another guy who's, and I mean this as a compliment, he's a fucking dick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They just have a team full of guys who are like, I don't care if you think I'm a fucking dick. I'm going to keep coming. And I'm going to know you and I'm coming after you. Who knew he had this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I'll start with the Pistons. Okay. I think Cade is the best player in a Pistons Pacers series. As good as Halliburton's been the last two months. I just, I think Cade is, I think he's a top 10 to 12 guy. So you got that. Pistons can rebound and defend. They're plus four, plus five rebounding every single game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And they have multiple guys that can... I think Schroeder's a huge pest in a Pacers series. And by the way, the reason we're talking Pistons-Pacers is it looks like this is going to be the 4-5. Beasley and Hardaway are making six threes a game, 40%. And they make big threes at the end of games. They run plays for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I mean, one of their plays, they'll be down, you know, 1.40 seconds left, and they'll run a big play to send Beasley coming off some sort of screen, and he'll make it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Um, and I like that. I know Kate's missed a couple of games here, but their best guys for the most part play unless they're got suspended for fighting, which is going to happen today. Um, I think they're a real team. I was really excited for them to play the Knicks because I genuinely thought they could beat the Knicks in a series. Pacers is a little more interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Now, you mentioned that even in the last 25 games, they're top eight in net. Halliburton is the numbers that jumped out to me. Since New Year's, he's 20 and 10, 51%, 44% from three. And that's in 33 games. They're 24 and nine in those games. And eye test wise, it seems like he's back. We were worried about him, but it seems like he's back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And you noticed that the other day in the Laker game, when Carlisle went offense defense with him, And it was fucking stupid. And they weren't able to get it back in the last 50 seconds. It was one of the reasons they lost. My thing with Indiana, they shoot themselves in the foot so many times in these games. I feel like they're in every game. It doesn't matter who they're playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They're winning or they should be winning. And yet you watch them in the last couple of minutes. You're like, why are they doing that? Why is that guy out there? Why was that their play coming out of the timeout? I think their fans are just as frustrated as, uh, as I probably am watching them. I think they're, I think the ceiling of that team is really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And it feels like they're their own worst enemy. A lot of the time. That's my Pacers takeaway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You were 18-0 against the worst five teams in the East?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, it almost seems like they just want offense, and they don't even care about having a guy out there who can stop the other guy because they think they can outscore whoever they're playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think it was more impressive than the Atlanta, that weird Atlanta-Philly series, because Philly just completely fell apart during that series. I mean, Atlanta was down big in some of those games. The Indy That goes back to the point I made earlier. They completely fucked up game one when Jalen hit the shot in the corner and they completely fucked up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think game three and game four, they could have won both of those games. And Carlisle is a really good coach, but he does some end of the game stuff that I just, I don't understand. And the teams do weird stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They were in three of those four, though, in like a real way. But this goes back to my point. I think Indiana's good. Like, I'm actually, I'm pro-Indiana. I think that if they're in the four seed, if it's a 4-5 and it's Indiana-Detroit and I'm Cleveland, I'm like, fuck. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,, ,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I like watching really good basketball teams. I'm a snob. I like watching good sporting events and good teams. And the quality does seem a little higher. But Duke is like... When you watch them, the ceiling of the guys they're putting out there and how they play together... which is I talked about this with Tate and Kyle the other day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like, it's not just like, oh, they have four, like that 2000, what was that? 2019 Duke team. And it was like Zion and RJ Barrett. And it's like, look at all these lottery prospects, but it didn't feel like a team. this Duke team now feels like an actual basketball team that you would have put together like a GM, like the way they play together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think that's been really interesting to watch because I had just gotten to the point with college basketball. I was like, this all feels fucking random. Everyone's just chucking up threes and some of them will go and some of them won't. But that, but I think the quality has been higher.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And the other thing is some of the teams feel like they have different identities almost, which is the way college, when we really love college in the eighties and nineties, the teams would have these, different personas like St. John's is like, Oh, the pressing team, Texas tech was like, these guys are just fucking huge. Like they're just like big bully ball team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So that, that part's been really fun to watch from afar, knowing fun, knowing nothing. Um, and then you watch, you know, the games today and it's like, Jesus Christ, Houston, it's the athlete team, you know? So that, that part I've enjoyed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah. They were just kind of spacing it out for him and chucking it to him. And he was doing this. They didn't want to double their face ups. It was pretty interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And some of these guys aren't even going to potentially even play in the NBA or some of the threes, like the threes that Clayton Jr. is making. The artistry feels like it's gone up a level versus where we were before. Now, some stuff has changed. When we did Blue Chips for the rewatchables and you watch Bobby Hurley is in that movie and he's just like the old school classic point guard head up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I'm just going to set up. Those guys seem to be kind of gone and they've just been replaced by these... all these different shooting point guards that all seem like they, they, every team has like three of them. And then flag is another one who just seems like a complete anomaly for what we're watching. But for the most part, like you watch some of the shop making and it's, it's really high level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It's going to be the live show that we did in Boston at House of Blues. Me, Russillo, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy. A great time was had by all. I had a ball. It was awesome. It was great to finally do one in Boston. So that is coming and you'll be able to watch that on the Ringer Moves YouTube channel or you can watch it as a video. on Spotify. We have big announcement.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I just wonder if, Maybe it's the camps. Maybe it's people following like the previous generations and stealing the best things from them as they watch and they're playing when they're eight years old. But it just seems like people are getting better at basketball. Is that crazy? Like there'll be finishes in traffic where guys are bouncing off each other and doing like spin, spin layups.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Like Jesus Christ, that's like a round two NBA playoff shot. This guy's like the fucking fourth guy in Florida.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I probably didn't. And probably not the Illinois guy either, the pick and roll guy with the long last name. I didn't spend enough time with him either. But that's why we have YouTube when I'm jumping in late on the draft, falling in love with different people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Who is going to be a more reliable superstar?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Who do you like more as a prospect coming into the draft?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
We both really love Zion coming out of college. I'm going to say Cooper is more of a sure thing. So he'd be ranked slightly higher just because whatever he's doing is going to translate so well. There's less variance with the ceiling. And Zion was always like had the higher ceiling, but he was always in the air. There was always the injury fear with him. I just think Cooper's a safer bet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Verno drove him to the airport. He just wanted to make sure he got on the plane.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, Cooper's the best, he's the best kind of ceiling prospect that's come out of college since Zion, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Davis at Kentucky, Zion, like if you're just going like the last 15 years, I think he's Cooper's in that conversation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, it's interesting though, because it's different than the typical college guy that comes in because you stick them on these different teams and he can kind of fulfill whatever you were missing. You know, he goes to Charlotte. He just has this immediate impact in all these different ways for them. Right. He goes to Washington. You put him next to SAR. Same thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I just be, I just don't think there's a team that's like, yeah, this is going to be a weird fit for us. Um, and I can't wait, but we'll see. We'll see with, uh, We'll see with some of these other Duke guys too, because the seven foot two guy is fascinating. I'll watch it. I don't know what to make of that guy. Can nipples good too. He's so I'm already on the record.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He's going to go five spots too late in the draft and it's going to be stupid. I don't know if it'll be, he should have gone 11 and he ends up going 16. He should have gone 14. He ends up going 19.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Teams will talk themselves out of them. I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Also, do you have a philosophical adjustment to having Cooper Flagg on your team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Should I have the best guy in six years of my team? And the answer, you know, I stumbled into it, but it was yes. It's really nice to have them. We were in Boston for the rewatchables. We did Good Will Hunting on Thursday and the weather was terrible the entire time, except for like one hour, one half. You split. You lasted two days. You were out. I left a day early.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And the first day we were there, the Red Sox were 1-0. people are feeling great. And now they're one in three and everyone's freaking out about Raphael Devers. Baseball is back, baby. We've already run the gamut of emotions in four days. I'm on three Devers panic texts and wondering that, and the Yankees are using the torpedo bats and really running the gamut of emotions already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Major League Baseball. I don't understand these torpedo bats at all. How did we still figure out how to innovate with baseball bats? In 2025. How did we not run out of every possibility with these things? I just didn't understand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You just can't use aluminum bats seems to be the only, and you can't cork your bat. Those seem to be the two rules. I don't get it. And of course, it's the Yankees that have figured this out. So we're off to a great start.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And I saw Judge wondering, should he get a torpedo bat? Because it's been working for him the last two years. He doesn't want to change it up. I just think when you have something called a torpedo bat, it's probably going to get banned from the league within a year. Just the name itself. It's like, how long is this going to last? Probably over under three months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Um, any last things before we go that you wanted to hit anything weird, any book you're reading, what'd you read in the plane home?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Did you do the, I saw your dad play at Avalon in 1994. You didn't do any of that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I flew back today and I had the games, but the Wi-Fi, we just, it's 2025 and the Wi-Fi just, I don't know why I thought I'd be able to prepare for a lot of this pod and that the plane would come through, but I made it work. But I just feel like the Wi-Fi should be 100% at this point on planes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
No, it was February 2004. We're going to Houston. So we were in writer's guild. So it was first class. It was in first class. I was sitting in a seat and one of the other writers was like two rows behind. And I was like, I want to sit with him. Asked the person next to him to switch seats with me. And they switched seats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And then five minutes later, Jacqueline Smith from Charlie's Angels sat in the seat right next to the one I gave up. And she was still smoking hot at that point. She was probably, I don't know, early 50s. That was better for her. What would you have done? I would have been next to her for three hours. And it was like, I love Charlie's Angels. So I would have, I don't know how that would have gone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
But the most fun, this is, I don't know if I told you this one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know, 22 years ago? I don't know. I think I would have froze. I think I went at a bad lead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
That's what my scouting report says. Yeah. The scouting report can move in, in different areas. Here's, here's my best airplane story. I've never told this story to you. Flying back, Superbowl, Colts,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Flying back. And I'm flying back day of the game because I don't want to be there when Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl. I'm still pissed off about the AFC title game. And I'm sitting next to this lady. And the plane never, it doesn't take off for like an hour. It's like a stuck on the runway situation. So I started talking to the lady. And it was Rick Riley's girlfriend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
but she didn't know who I was. And she starts telling me about how Rick Riley's gonna leave Sports Illustrated and he thinks he wants to go to ESPN, but he doesn't really like writing his column anymore. But so much money, he's gonna have to. And she's just giving me all this stuff. And I'm like, oh my God. And goes through this whole thing. He's probably gonna do the deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Or he might go back to Sports Illustrated, but he doesn't really like writing it anymore. And I'm like, oh my God. So then she's like, what do you do? And I'm like, oh, ironically, I work for ESPN. I write a column for them. And so she's like, oh, that's so weird. But how long have you had the column? Blah, blah, blah. So then she's texting with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
And she looks at me and goes, he's telling me not to tell you anything. But I feel like so now you can't tell anyone. But now I feel like it's almost 20 years later. I could probably tell that story because I felt bad because she was nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
You're sitting next to Simmons. You don't say anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I think he was talking himself into it, which was really instructive to me because I was, you know, I'm still like trying to climb the ladder and I'm like, this is great. This guy doesn't sound like he's that hungry anymore. I can beat this guy because I'm a competitive psycho.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Well, he took a shot at me. We made up. I think he came on the pod at one point, but yeah, he took a shot about how long my columns were. And I was like, what do I do? I'm just over here, motherfucker. Did you have to go to therapy for that? No, it made me mad. I was like you. I went into like fucking gym in the town mode. Like, whose car are we taking?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
They gave him a talk show, a whole bunch of stuff. He was writing the column for the magazine. It was an instructive lesson to me. I came home and I told my wife, if you're ever sitting on a plane next to anybody, don't start talking about my career or my contract, my contract negotiations with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So you were telling us what was going to happen. You were texting me in-house. You were telling us revenge season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It was a strategic move by him where he felt like he was crippling Sports Illustrated by doing that. And it was he wasn't wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
I don't know if that was true, but it was the right narrative. I think Sports Illustrated, I'm figuring out the web destroyed Sports Illustrated.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Yeah. Well, that was a fun one. By the way, Rick Riley's girlfriend, wife, whoever she was, she was very nice. I don't want to get in trouble now if they're still together. It was also 20 years ago. Who cares? All right. That's it, Rosillo. So you got two podcasts this week. Next week, we have something fun for the Sunday episode. And then we're in the homestretch here. Good to see you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thanks for coming to Boston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
It was a really fun one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Thank you. See you next week. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Ryan Rosillo. Thanks to Chris Vernon for joining us. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle. As always, don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can always watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. New rewatchables coming tomorrow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Good Will Hunting, Prestige TV podcast, White Lotus episode seven is up. And last but not least, the Zach Lowe Show is coming. So get ready to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Very excited about that. We will see him on this podcast on Tuesday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
So once upon a time at Grantland, I used to work with a guy named Zach Lowe. We hired him from Sports Illustrated and he became an awesome, awesome basketball writer and podcast for us over the next few years. I left Grantland. We have not worked together for 10 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Enough foreplay. This to me is a whole Joss situation. And Joss doesn't play enough and Joss is not reliable enough. And I wrote down, can you actually compete for a title if you can't count on your best guy emotionally or physically? Now think about like Embiid is in that class, right? Kawhi and the Clippers. Not Kawhi before the Clippers, but Kawhi during the Clippers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Is he going to be out there? What am I getting? Is he going to be out there in April? I have no idea. C-Web on the Kings after the 0-1 playoffs. Is he playing? Is he not playing? I don't know. Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, Kyrie before Dallas, Zion right now. If you don't have that reliability with your best guy, can you even have a chance to win a title? And I think the answer is no. He's 25 now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
He made all NBA second team three years ago. And this year he's missed 30 games already. And it's not even like a Brunson thing where he got hurt. And he's out for six weeks. He'll miss eight games. He'll miss six games. He'll miss three games. When you go to work, do you even know if Ja's playing? That's the season he's had.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Memphis Lowdown, and Forgotten NBA Playoff Teams With Ryen Russillo and Chris Vernon
Super. But is that going to be his career? I guess is my question, because maybe he just seems like a nagging injury guy to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Coming up, the last edition of Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal. We're going to talk Super Bowl. We're going to talk conference finals. It's all next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, Romo, I thought, that was about as good as he's been in a few years. I thought he was all over the game, spotting stuff, spelling stuff out, telling us what was going to happen. With the Buffalo piece, the defense had a couple injuries, and it was pretty... I don't want to say flimsy, but it was, it was okay. Never like a great defense to begin with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
They reminded me a little of what happened to Washington today. Washington probably were lost anyway, but when it came out over the weekend that they were losing their run, stopping defensive tackle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You can kind of pass the point and overturn. And it felt like they're secondary. I just didn't trust the people that had that poor Benford got two concussions and A week, it looks like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
We did this live on YouTube, which you can follow if you want to, on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Please subscribe. We are going to be breaking down the two games today and... What's coming up in the Super Bowl. And I have a very action-packed parent corner for you. So it's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are on YouTube.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And it was like the first series. Yeah. Yeah. But you have these things where you've already decided mentally where you're going in a game. And it's already like, if you're taking Washington, it's a pretty flimsy case. It's like, they're not going to turn the ball over. Jaden Daniels is going to go up a level. He's going to be able to match Philly and Hertz is going to kind of suck.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Like that was the case. The other case was Philly's going to run all over them. Washington's not going to run out turnovers and Philly's going to blow them out. You can see the two cases. It was like, ah, I like the Washington case more. So I took that one. And then you find out their run stuffers done well. When I didn't really like the run defense to begin with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And it's like a 15 yard difference when he's out and when he's like, Oh, this isn't a great sign. But yeah, I mean, we'll talk about that game later, but Philly was also great. The Buffalo thing, this might've been their best chance. Cause I'll say this. I still think Baltimore might've been the best team from a talent standpoint.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And I watched in this game, I guarantee like the Ravens, the Ravens fan watching this game today, you had to, I was texting Mallory about it and she's like still sick. Yeah. Cause you watch what was working against the chiefs. The Ravens were better at pounding the ball, running the ball, being physical. And they had a better defense than the bills. And I'm sure they felt like shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
If we'd just gotten in there, we could have beaten that team. but they didn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Does it seem like football is just now about The turnover battle who wins, how you did on fourth and one and fourth and two, because there's so many of them now and the variance of those is huge. And did you just avoid having a massive fuck up? And it seems like in a game like this in Buffalo, all season was kind of pulling off games like this and their luck finally ran out today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And I know the Buffalo fans last week were pissed because everyone was dwelling on how Baltimore blew the game. And they're like, well, we also won the game. We didn't mess up. We didn't make mistakes. This game, they made some mistakes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's a point and a half. That's stupid. The line was too low. I think if it was Chiefs by three, it was a different thought process. But the one and a half, how can you not... we did, we did this last year. You had the Ravens too last year, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And the AFC title game. And that, that was my never again moment. I was just like, as long as they're in a half. Yeah. Yeah. As long as the chiefs are the chiefs, it's just not worth it. Cause they're going to figure this out year after year. So, um, on the plus side for Alan, before we get to some of the negative stuff, That pass he threw to Matt Collins before halftime was fantastic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I don't... The list of QBs who can hit that one with the speed and the accuracy that he hit is not... It's basically him and Drake May.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You're serious. It was him, Drake May, a couple others. But he hit that one. He also had that big drive to... you know, give them the lead in the third quarter. He had the other comeback drive when it was 29, 22, he brought them down again and they scored. And I was thinking like, cause I don't, I don't, I don't blame this loss on Alan in any respect.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
He's in that zone now that I'm not sure you want to be in as a great athlete. And I would call it the Tommy Hearns zone where he, You're awesome, you're memorable, you're a generational talent, and yet you're the other guy in the sports movie over and over again. How do you get out of that? How do you snap out of that? Hearns was in all these great sports moments, and he lost most of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
But he was still great. He's one of the best boxers I've ever seen in my life. He was a 101. Nobody liked him. Six foot one, 147. Crazy punchy power. He fought everybody. And yet his legacy was like, he lost the Leonard fight. He lost the Hager fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I think Lamar is a little bit of a different case because he's kind of come up short in these big moments. Allen's had these moments. So he's Roberto Duran? Who's Lamar? Drake May. No. Who is Lamar? I feel like Lamar's story hasn't... I'll answer that next year. I'm not quite ready to label him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's tougher. What boxer didn't come through every time it mattered? I don't know who that is. The point with Josh is they've lost games where he was really good in the game. I thought he was really good in the game today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You know, if you're a Bills fan, you're like, man, Josh has to do more. That's not why he lost.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I thought the play calling was atrocious. I thought the OC, I just don't understand some of those third and short, fourth and short. It felt like anytime they play action, they had guys all over the place. Mm-hmm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah. Sometimes the toss is too soft. Right. That one kind of whipped it to the point that Cook might have, like, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
We've had a real resurgence with good running backs. This position that everybody thought didn't matter, and then you look around, it's like Barkley and Jameer Gibbs and Cook and gone down the line. It seems like it's more important than it used to be. Back to the Al and Tommy Hearns thing for a second. The sad shot at the end when the team's running out the clock.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Cousin Sal is here taping the BS podcast after another magical NFL playoff game. Sal, I've had the worst weekend, and I can't wait to talk to you about it. This game reinvigorated me. It poured a Red Bull and a coffee and a giant line of cocaine into my body. I am ready for this podcast, baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And then cut to the guy losing QB just sitting on the bench with that deer in the headlights look. It's a tough one. You don't want that to be legacy. In a weird way, from a career move standpoint, I actually think he gains human interest stature. Because now he's come so close. And he just can't get over this. Next year's Chiefs-Bills game is even more interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
This year's game was so interesting. Kyle Brandt did a Rocky IV mountain parody game. With him as Sly and Mahomes as Drago. And I don't even know what next year's version of that is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, and then there's the Buffalo piece of it too, right? So it's always lingering with the Bills game. Like even it's 29-28. They had just scored a touchdown. They have all this momentum and there's Bass. And I'm sitting there going, I've watched Bass miss this. Like you're watching the PAT intently. It's like, it's the Bills. I've seen Bass miss this. I'm not positive this is going through.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I'm thinking about Casey minus one and a half, minus one. And he made it. But the baggage of the Bills is another thing. There's some franchises like the Lions, that playoff loss they had two weeks ago. Or last week. Last week. It was last week. Yeah. It feels like January has been 75 days. Yeah. That playoff loss they had, they haven't had a lot of those because they're never in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Meanwhile, the Bills have had, you know, it feels like a hundred of these.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I think it's a hard ask though, Sal. I know. Because you look around the AFC and there's just a bunch of teams that feel like they're poised to maybe jump up a level or teams that had bad luck in 24. What are the Texans going to look like next year? You know, even in their own division, what could the jets be better next year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
If they, if Aaron Glenn turns out to be a good coach, could the Patriots be next year's Washington? Keep my fingers crossed. Could the chargers make a jump up? Could the Broncos like you go on down and it's just, I don't, I think the AFC is just going to be better next year. And I can't wait to pick all the over unders correctly with you again. You're going to do a good job.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You did such a good job though last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, you know, they lose Rasheed Rice. before the season. He's just a non-factor. This guy who seemed like he was going to be Mahomes' number one target. They're able to patch together. Smith-Schuster was so bad in the preseason for the Pats. It was like, can anyone take this guy from us? And then he's making big plays today. Hopkins, who really didn't do that much today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Kelsey, who looked like he was 55, but then Worthy becomes the key guy. This number one pick that they really shrewdly traded up for. Their drafts, The way that they've nailed the drafts, this is the difference between them and what happened in the second part of the Pats dynasty in the late 2010s when they just started missing drafts. The Chiefs are getting Karlaftis. They're getting McDuffie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
They're getting Worthy. Over and over again, they're nailing guys who are playing big roles in these playoff games. And that's how the Pats, that's why it ended. The 16, 17, 18 drafts, they just weren't getting people and that was it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
32 to 22, I think. Yeah, they ran 32. Oh, 32, 34 attempts. 34 passes, 32 carries. Yeah. And the Chiefs were 35 carries, 26 passes. Did some really, did people look at this box score like 75 years from now, assuming the earth hasn't melted yet and be like, whoa, that game, that seemed pretty close. Right. Travis Kelsey. Well, he did nothing. What did the bills went by?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, well, then Hollywood Brown had that huge brain fart on the, on the play when he was open and didn't realize he was standing out of bounds. Right. That's another thing with the Chiefs. Hollywood Brown was supposed to be their big. Right. You know, this big guy that helped them out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
They keep finding little things around the fringes, like the kick returner. Made a couple big plays today. You know, these guys, they are always able to locate them. And it's really its own skill because that's the biggest way you can...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, don't you think part of it is everybody and their brother had the Kelsey over?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I think that was that and Dallas Goddard were the two. Dallas Goddard hit his, but those two seemed like they were the... They gave everyone free Barkley money and then they're like, no, no, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
What a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So one other thing. So we'll be talking about the Chiefs going for the three-peat. And I was going through looking who's three-peated in the last 50 years, which is half a century. That's a long time. Jordan's Bulls twice. The Jacoby Lakers. The late 90s Yankees. The Canadiens. Four in a row in the 70s. And then the Islanders four in a row in the 80s. And that's really it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Unless you want to count the Comets in the first four years of WNBA. This three-peat thing. especially in the age of parody, the Pats never did it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah. So there's going to be a lot of stuff over the next two weeks about Chiefs Eagles. We had this already. The Chiefs are back. Come on. Here's where I've landed. And I feel like I've been here for most of my life, but really, especially as I get older, I really like true greatness. Like, I really appreciate this Chiefs team. I bet on them. I really wanted them to cover the bet, obviously.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And the Steelers. It was the Eagles game. And the Niners. It was the Nick Foles, Doug Peterson game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
We didn't do a three-peat in a game where Brady threw for over 500 yards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Like, think about that. That was how we didn't get it. But this is fucking hard. And you have these games where it's like they tipped our pass to the wide open guy on a fourth down. We missed the two point where the guy was, his foot was out of bounds. We missed the field goal at the end of the first half and we needed those. There's so many things to get that right for three years in a row.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
In a league with a salary cap, it feels impossible. Mahomes is great, but it's not like Mahomes was like... throw everyone on my back. I'm going to carry us all through the season. I don't even think he was one of the three best QBs this year. But he's Mahomes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, it's an interesting one. Like my dad really doesn't like when the Chiefs do well because he wants the Pats to be better historically than the Chiefs. My thing is like whatever the Pats did, that's what they did. The Chiefs belong to this different generation. And if the Chiefs win three in a row, it doesn't diminish what the Pats did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
But I think other Pats fans are like, really need the Chiefs to lose, need the Bills to come through. It depends on your perspective on it. I personally was more, I'm probably leaning more toward it would be cool if the Bills never won and we were like the last good AFC East team. But I'm more spiteful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah. That's pretty specific. If the Bills never get one and then now with Vrabel and Drake May and $130 million in cap space and whoever we get number four and all of a sudden we can try to take the AFCs from him. I'm in that mindset.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So much is left for him to do that. Brady won seven. Brady beat Mahomes twice. Brady had the Atlanta game, which is the greatest feat probably any quarterback's pulled off in a game. There's a long way to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
But I also really like the fact that every once in a while in sports, you have this measuring stick, not just for the sport, but for all the sports, right? Like, I hated the Yankees in the late 80s, you know, late 90s. I hated that team. But I respected the shit out of them. When Arizona beat them in 2001, it was like, this is momentous. Wait, the Pats were able to get that in the mid-2010s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Eagles, Washington. Seems like so long ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I wrote down, Daniels kept trying to throw on a Superman cape and his teammates kept pulling it off. That's my half of my take of the game. The other take is the Eagles are really talented and just had more talent all over the place and actually played really well. I thought Hurts was good. They used A.J. Brown correctly. Barkley was incredible. Their defense made a couple mistakes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You know, we cut with those yet another punch fumble play a couple stops when they needed it. There's a different version of this game without a couple of the turnovers that I think would have been really fun to watch if it was the Washington with, within a score with 10 minutes left with the ball. But instead it became a, an absolute blowout.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I, I don't feel terrible about picking Washington, but you knew in the first quarter it was a bad pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, it was like Dan Quinn ran out of plays. I was really surprised they went for it. I know the book probably said it was a wash, take the points, all that stuff. But the longer they're on the field, the longer the Eagles' offense isn't on the field. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Barkley gets it. De'Ami Brown has the punch fumble. Eagles score again. Washington's about to punt. I thought it was the most obvious. I swear. I'm not just saying this. I was watching the line. Cause I was like, this is the most obvious fake punt situation I've ever seen. Cause they know if they're putting it back. And I'm watching it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And I was watching the whole play develop and I'm like, Oh, they're doing it. Like as it was happening, it was in the Eagles were completely blindsided, which I didn't really understand. But then they ended up settling for, I thought they were, they only had one guy to cover two guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And Philly beat them with Foles and Peterson. It was like, this feels momentous. I think you need teams like that. When the Warriors lost in 2019, you need teams every once in a while that are truly great. And then you see how everyone measures up. And they did it again. I don't know when this stops. Of course you do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, I wrote down it was 14-6. Washington had run 30 plays and Philly had won seven. And Washington was losing by eight. Yeah. And then Elliott missed the field goal. Right. McLaurin scores. It's 14-12, and Washington goes for two, which I didn't understand at all. I don't understand how you're not going for the fourth and three, but then you're going for the two. It's second quarter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Who cares if it's 14-13? So they don't get that, and then you start doing the math. 14-12. Uh-oh, this is going to be a two-score game soon. Um, and then Philly made a couple of big plays. Like AJ Brown had that big fourth and five catch. I thought Hertz was good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Like if, if Hertz had shown what he showed today in previous games, I probably would have taken Philly, but I didn't, we hadn't seen it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
20 and 12, under two minutes left, and the guy fumbles the kickoff and gives Philly the ball back. Now it's 27-12. It's 20-12, minute 44. I feel like that could have gone down, gotten a field goal, and it's 20-15 halftime. Right. Instead, it's 27-15 halftime. And then Philly gets the ball and they stop them top of the third quarter. But then Washington just kind of flamed out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
They got the three and out and then Philly got the touchdown. That was that. And then right when it seemed like Philly or Washington might be able to drive down and get the super fun cover. Eckler fumbled. Right. And that was that. I thought Daniels was a winner in the game regardless. I thought he was really, really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And a couple of... The fact that they put that team together with duct tape kind of got exposed. Oh, yeah. Great season for them, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Four straight road games. Yeah. They lose their best guard and they lose their run stuff for going into Philly. And yet, I kind of needed a seat from Philly. I wasn't positive they had it. Like, just in general. Like, I... You know, were they going to do weird shit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, then they have this weird center situation where one guy's got the knee brace and the other guy has a bad back. And Brady kept talking about it because I think he knows how important the center is because he played QB. That never really mattered.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I hate that we have to say tush push. My God. So do we need to ban this play? Or is it just not going to be until somebody breaks their back in a tush push and then they're like, we have to stop this. Somebody was seriously hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
We care about physical safety.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So would you get rid of it? Because Buffalo tried a couple times and it didn't work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Eagles big picture. Do you feel better about them than you did a week ago? Or do you feel like Washington outkicked its coverage and gave a valiant underdog effort? But this is what happens. This is the March Madness team that made the final four. Now they're playing UNLV in 1990 and it's Larry Johnson and Stacey Ogman. They're going, oh, all right, this is running out now. I like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, Saquon, who's, if they win the Super Bowl, I think will go down as the most popular Philly athlete. Just moving into that, basically taking the Bryce Harper spot, but in the pantheon of guys that the Philly fans love. He was 15 for 118 in three TDs today. The touchdown was spectacular, the first one. Last week, he was 26 for 205. So in the two games, he's 41 for 323 with five touchdowns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And it's like, you remember in the late 90s when Terrell Davis was just ripping off these crazy postseasons. With the stats, you go back and you look and you're like, holy shit. That's why he made the Hall of Fame for those two years. And this feels like a very Terrell Davis-y postseason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
His rookie season, I think I said to you on this podcast that I thought he was the best running back I've ever seen. And we fought about it. And then it became a clip that got... No, we just argued about it. I was like, this is the best running back I've ever seen. I'll send out the... It's somewhere on Twitter. And we cut a social clip about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And then when he hurt his knee and then he was in the Giants and it became one of those like, oh my God. That was one of my worst takes. But now I think I'm back in it with the take. Like what running backs that you've seen in your life I guess the one thing with him, the pass catching, like he even dropped the one today. The pass catching is a little iffy with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I still have Peyton as the best running back I've ever seen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, Terrell Davis is in there. I still think for one game, Emmitt has to be discussed seriously. If it's like 22 degrees outside and I need a running back who will rush the ball 35 times today, who's your pick? I'd probably take Emmitt. So I guess it would depend. Terrell is still the most dominant, um, running back on a good team. I've seen just felt like it was six yards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Every time Peyton was the best all around, just special running back. Uh, but Barkley's wait, it's, it's, it's a little video game issue with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Could he get to 2,500 for the regular season playoffs combined? Oh, I think so. Yeah. That's in there, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, shit. I forgot that they played. What did he have in the Green Bay game? Oh, 25 for 119. Yeah, so he's been over 100 in the three games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So he'll get over 2,500 combined.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So who's your number one running back ever? Is it TD? Well, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I mean, he wasn't on, I promise you, he wasn't on on the East Coast more than twice a year for his entire prime. But you always, he, the clips are amazing. The NFL film stuff was amazing. And then the way everyone talked about how he's the best blocking running back ever. He's the best pass guy. Like he checked all these boxes that nobody in that era was like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Tomlinson hit some of that stuff too, but I was, the Peyton stuff is the most fun NFL films to me other than Barry Sanders. For sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, my Barry Sanders take, I've done this before, but my Barry Sanders take is probably in your wheelhouse. Yeah. I'm like in the, probably the minority, but I would rather have Emmitt Smith than Barry Sanders. Yeah. I'd rather have the four, five, six yards of pop than the guy who every once in a while can run for 70. Yeah. but was always looking to break the big play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I've had a million arguments.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, that Buffalo doesn't get the two point. And Casey gets the ball down one fourth quarter and you're just going, Mahomes is taking this down. He's going to score. He's going to get the two point and they're going to be up seven. I was already mentally in the stage of if Buffalo then gets the ball and scores the TD, will they go for one or two? Like the Chiefs hadn't even done anything yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So we have Jalen Hurts in the second Super Bowl, which is twice as many appearances as
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
We have Nick Sirianni in the Super Bowl where it looked like he was going to get fired in September or early October. And since then, I think they've lost once. against Andy Reid, who is now 28 and 16 in the playoffs in his sixth Super Bowl. And starting to really legitimately breathe down Belichick's neck. And his breath smells like barbecue. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven-layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat. In this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food, no matter what you're craving.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
From two-for-one pizza to buy one, get one wings, Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week, all season long. Uber Eats, the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL, Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. Let's do Guest Alliance because Guest Alliance is brought to you by Hookah and Bondi9, their new daily trainer. Bondi9. What was your favorite Bondi?
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Now it's back. Bondi 9 is the best one they've had. Guess the lines. You already won. You won your first title. I got to say... Um, my team has noticed a lot of, a lot of talk with this win and now we're, we're rededicated for next season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And I, I just sheepishly accepted my trophy and just kept my head down. My fans shouldn't have done that. You won once and you're talking a lot of shit. So next year it's on baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, you know what's really annoying? The NBA has their trade deadline the Thursday of Super Bowl week. Oh, really? When it should either be this week or next week. Just for content, the NBA just shoots themselves in the foot over and over again. I've never seen anything like it. Why would you have your trade deadline during Super Bowl week? It's so fucking stupid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You just knew they were going to go down and do it. I mean, the Mahomes thing, just big picture. This is now five Super Bowl appearances before age 30. He's 20 and three in the playoffs. He's beaten Josh Allen, who I think along with Burrow, but I think Allen over Burrow and probably over Lamar, Allen's his number one rival. He's beaten him four times in a row now in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I don't understand it. By Thursday, everyone is either at the Super Bowl or talking about the Super Bowl. I just don't get it. I don't understand how they screw up shit like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You think Jimmy Butler's going to the Dodgers?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I pulled out my starters, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Why did the football scores get so weird? We never had 29 versus 29-29 in the fourth quarter. Never happened our entire childhood. Like everything's weird. The lines are weird. Everything's weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
One and a half. That's it for Guess the Line. That's not it for the Bondi 9, which delivers peak plushness for everyday miles overhauled from top to bottom. They've increased the stack height and added a new premium foam midsole to deliver that soft, resilient ride that's become synonymous with the Bondi. Everybody Bondi, visit hookah.com, H-O-K-A.com to learn more about the Bondi 9.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
What's everything up? Tell me. Let's talk about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
For our fans on YouTube. Yeah. On the YouTubes. Barkley over under. Can I guess somebody's? Yeah, do it. Barkley over under. I'm going to say 85 and a half. No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
What did James Cook have today?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Why was that a bad guess? 114 is a lot for the Super Bowl. That means you're probably winning if you rush for 114.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Plus, the Chiefs can kind of try to jam the line and make him Florida Devonta Smith. I dare you. I'm betting the under. Okay. Do they have Mahomes rushing attempts yet? Because that's my favorite bet. Oh, okay. You got to be careful. He had 11 rushes today. That bet hits every single time. Mahomes in the playoffs first. rushing attempts is the safest prop in sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, wait. Oh, yeah, I do see it. Okay. What do you think? I think they jack it up to like five and a half because it keeps hitting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
He takes gigantic... The nail-down factor kills the rushing yard thing. They got to figure that out. But you get three free. We didn't talk about that moment today when the official was slapping the... slap it in Washington with the newspaper because they kept jumping off sides. And he's like, if this happens one more time, we're awarding a score to Philadelphia.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So what would have happened from a gambling standpoint? Who gets the score? Oh, right, right, right. We were trying to figure that out. Is there a way we could have bet on this? Could we bet on this at the Super Bowl? No player on Philly scores a touchdown. Yeah, the scolding score.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I didn't even know that was... Not even close. I feel like they made that up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And he just feels like it feels like that Brady versus Mahomes, that first playoff game that the first playoff loss Mahomes had. Brady beats him. And then it's like he just handed a torch to him. And he's like, all right, go ahead, take it. And now it just feels like the Chiefs became the Pats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I think the ball wasn't hitting the hash mark and the chain was actually on the hash mark. So they knew it, just missed it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Wow. You're a put a chip in the ball guy. Well, what are we doing? The chain. Do you get along with the, make the goalpost hires guys? Do you guys have meetings together or you're like rival gangs? There's a big meeting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's a little stupid. So what do we have for the over under? Can I guess that one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
49 and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You know what? I'll give you a win for this week. I'll give you that win for that. I got one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So the two games today went crazy over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I mean, over by 15, 20 points, usually there was a lot of dialogue about, well, Eagles, Washington, each team only gets seven possessions. There'll be these slow games. It's like, nope, that's wrong. And then KC Buffalo, they kept moving the ball up and down the field.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So for a super bowl rematch, there's not a lot of those either. Pat's giants was probably the most famous one of this century, but we've had some other ones when we were growing up Steelers, Cowboys. was like an exciting rematch. I think, I get the feeling people now don't like rematches as much. Right. Like the KC Philly, we've already done this. I wrote it in the Jalen Hurts thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
People like to complain. Or the Mahomes thing. Yeah, like Buffalo or Washington being in there would have been content fodder. Right. But I think this is a really good game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
My son who follows football on TikTok and through YouTube shorts, he watched most of the second half with me. And at one point he turned to me and said, dad, isn't every football season the same? Like the Bills come super close and then they lose. The Chiefs make the Super Bowl. They play somebody from the other team. It seems good. Then the Chiefs win. And I was like, nope. Nope. You're wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I'm going to lie to you right now. No. The answer is no. That's not true at all, son. Every season is way different. There's no chip in the ball. Of course, it's the same. Yeah. Now, Jaden Daniels, you never know, son. Right. Jaden Daniels last week in Detroit. You shocked the world, son.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
My son, I always impress my son by predicting what plays are going to happen. I've been playing a lot of Madden lately. I'm like, oh, empty back. I think he's going to, and half the time, that's how predictable some of these plays are though. I think it's actually a bad sign if I'm on my couch and I can figure out where the ball's going. half the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Especially on those swing screen passes you can kind of see. Do you do that when you're watching the games? Do you try to predict what they're going to do? Sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Romo doesn't do it anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
The one I got wrong, I would have bet my life on, it was before the Samuel touchdown when Buffalo tied it. Yeah. It was like third and goal from the five. I would have bet my life that Allen was going to do the QB draw on that play. Take off. Yeah. I just think it's been so obvious. They've been relying on it to the point that I think even they realize they probably can't do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Can I ask you when the shotgun from the one started? Listen, you know my least favorite plays are fourth and goal or fourth and short, fourth and one. The QB not over the center. To me, you're just throwing away an advantage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's the cousin of, it's a tie NBA game with under 10 seconds left and they do the ISO where then the guy does a step back three to win the game. But it was a tie game. It's like, we just need a basket. You don't need to do your step back 27 footer. Yeah. Um, same thing for the shotgun snap. I don't understand it. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I also don't understand why my homes doesn't sneak, which we always talk about. Right. Cause he got hurt that one time, like five years ago, like they can't sneak them anymore. And it was kind of like, they can't, he can't just like lean down and burrow in and go for half a yard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's really impressive. We have two weeks to talk about the Super Bowl on your podcast, on my podcast. People are going to be in New Orleans, a whole bunch of things. You have a new Cowboys coach. Oh, we could skip. We can go right to parent corner, right? We don't have to talk about this. You hired Marty Schottenheimer's son, Brian. They are related. I had a feeling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I wouldn't say Brian was a red hot coaching candidate. Mm-hmm. which might be a good thing or a bad thing. He's the kind of guy I would have expected. Oh, the Patriots have hired Brian Schottenheimer as the QB coach for Drake man, but like good hire veteran. He's your head coach. Yeah. I don't understand it. Why didn't you hire Cliff Kingsbury?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
At least he's like from Texas and he's young and you could make excuses for the first job. It's like, maybe you didn't get along with Kyler Murray. Like I don't understand Brian Schottenheimer at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Career assistant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
No, look at the Washington fans this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, you have on the flip side, Buffalo, Alan comes out first drive. He throws two picks that get dropped. Right. Alan fumbles twice, pulls back. Both of them recovers. Both of them, including on that fourth and one, I did have a moment where I thought to myself, maybe this doesn't happen. Cause I remember in the Pats Eagles Superbowl, uh, which I sadly watched with nephew Kyle, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You're making the joke.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
What's good. Like, is it possible he doesn't have as much money anymore because he paid Mike McCarthy to the last minute of the contract and then just let it expire. And then he's obviously trying to save money with this coaching hire. Really weird. He's an actor. There are better versions of this guy out there. Maybe the landman thing. I think he said that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
That's just nonsense. Well, it was an interesting one because the Jets interviewed, I think, 230 possibilities for their head coach. And I don't even think he cracked that list. And they were interviewing people that you didn't even know were still professionally working.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Does the interview start like, Brian, what went wrong with your career? Why are you still here, Brian? Why did it peak five years ago? Conversely, I'm on an absolute high with the Patriots again. Why not? Vrabel's putting together this awesome coaching staff that's like the complete opposite of what we had last year. We have all these overqualified. We have Doug Marone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Doug Marone almost beat the Pats in a round three playoff game five years ago. He was a good head coach. I'm really pumped. I really feel like, I think the Washington thing has given all the Pats fans so much energy that it's like, they did this in a year. They just, they hit the quarterback, they did all that. So now I'm going to be more into this NFL draft than I was last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
He even took a win today, I felt like. I thought he was, you know, he maybe a couple of passes were a little low. But for the most part, like his poise and the way he kind of kept them at that two point conversion he had was great. I just thought he still seems very, very cool.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, the cool thing for us, selfishly, just like for the Sundays where we're trying to watch all these games at once, we just want as many fun QBs as we can get. And now it seems like at least May and Daniels are two more to the list. Hopefully, Caleb can get there. Hopefully, Herbert will take some sort of leap. Hopefully, the new Jacksonville coach will resuscitate Lawrence.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
We might get into a situation where half of the teams have a fun QB. Wouldn't that be something?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I wouldn't JJ McCarthy's good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, the one thing we know is we're always going to have bad owners and Oh, yeah. Bad coaches.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
By the way, the Celtics, here's a little tidbit. The Celtics, it was the first round of the buyers that they had to cut down all the prospective buyers. And like, I don't know, five people made the first round, four or five people. One of the people was the Eagles owner. Really? Jeffrey Lurie, who's apparently from Massachusetts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So he was... Because there's been a couple like, hmm, I wonder who these guys are. And there was a couple I couldn't figure out, but that's one that... Do you like that? I mean, that happened with your Red Sox too, right? Isn't there like a whole... So the precedent is Josh Harris owned the Sixers and then bought Washington's football team. The Crockies owned the Nuggets and they owned the Rams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Even did the bitter end. They've all, I don't really remember what the score was, but the Pats did get the ball with like a little over two minutes left and they're on like the 20. And we were all like, we're winning this. And then when Brady got stripped, it was, it was so shocking. It was like, Oh my God, somebody beat us. Um, that's, there was a moment in this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So there's been a couple of NBA, NFL things. But I mean, I always thought the Eagles were one of the best run... Football teams, right? So if he bought the Celtics, that's a decent outcome. There's a couple of decent outcomes in this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, and you're way more likely to have a mediocre to bad coach and a bad owner. All right, anything else before we hit parent corner? Did you hit the sad point of the season yet? Oh, yeah. You're just going to wrestling tournaments on a Saturday and thinking about how you have no games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into. it makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them, if I'm excited to do that.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Alcohol available only in select markets. Parent corner. You go first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It w it was when Buffalo was driving, wondering if they were going to go for two or not and thinking like, Oh, what happens if like they go for two, they get it. And Casey, just something weird happens and all of a sudden they're punting and they're down one and Buffalo has a chance to just run out the clock on them. But that's the thing. Casey's avoided this. They say, what'd they say?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Wow, the announcers must have loved it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, he's... This is great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So 10 and 11, Harrison's 11. Yeah. Those are really emotional ages for boys sports. There's a lot more crying than I was ever prepared for, like in the baseball and the basketball, like kids really melt down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It made me think how funny it would be if, like, we did this as adults. Like, if it was, like, in the game today. Like, Don Cacade drops the pass. He's just sobbing on the sidelines. When did they grow out of that? At age 12?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
17 straight, one possession wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah. Cause I, I was visiting our cousin Jimmy yesterday. Yeah. Uh, in South Bay and, uh, I called you to see if you were around and I just heard whistles in the background. And I'm like, oh, I forgot. On Saturday, you just drive around to different sporting events. Yeah, that was it. My parent corner. So my wife went away for a couple of days with some friends. She still lives here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's not a Michelle Obama thing. And I was left alone with me and Ben and the dog.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Murph, who if you've noticed has not been really on parent corner all year. Cause he's four, like he really is blossomed into a great dog, mature, no accidents. We have no gates in any of the rooms in the house, anything like that. Well, um, my son had, uh, had a friend over and they made a cake and, uh, it was a female friend. And, um, he left the, the, you know, there's the frosting left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I think he left the frosting on the counter, but maybe not enough distance for Murph not to get it. So I come home on, on Thursday and in the, in the TV room There's just the remnants of something. And it's like white. It almost looks like somebody spilled cocaine powder. And I'm like, what is that? I'm smelling it. And it just smells like icing. And I'm like, oh my God, Ben.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So now I'm on Murph watch. Nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. And then Saturday morning, the apocalypse. I noticed him sneak away a couple of times. Usually he's always where I am. Right. If I'm home. And I noticed him sneak away a couple of times. Like, that's where Murph, where are you going? He's like, I'll be right back. It was a poopocalypse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
My office that I'm in right now, multiple shits. I can smell it. Our living room, which we had a gate so that nobody could go in there. That was a dog for months and months. And finally, we don't need the gate. It's ugly. Murph never goes in there. Double shit on the rug in there. What was the other place? Oh, and then the TV room. like ruin the rug that like, so like three different shits.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Um, and I had already closed the doors for it. So anyway, I, we have this machine that I would recommend anybody as a dog who likes to shit in their house, this water tank machine where you can scrub it and it picks the shit up. And I saved two of the rugs, but I haven't saved the third one. And, uh, and he ruined it.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And so last night I was like, I, so I didn't have a good night's sleep Friday night. And I'm like, last night, I'm like that. Hopefully the shit's done. I lock all the doors. He's locked in, in our bedroom. There's no rug for him to pee on. The bathroom doors close or poop on bathroom doors closed. There's nothing he can get to. And I'm like, now I can just get a good night's sleep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Got the pod tonight with the two games. Like, I just want to be like rested and prepared. Fall asleep at one o'clock. Like 245, I just hear him circling around in the room, which means he has to go. So bring him down. It's pouring rain. Goes out. He does whatever. Comes back. Towel him off. Hour and a half later, we repeat it again. 5.45, let's do it a third time.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And now I'm up and I've been up since 5.45. So I don't know what I look like, but three shits. And I haven't told my wife because she's away. And so I guess this is, if she hears this, this is how she's going to find out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Well, did you reprimand your son or no? Oh, he's like, it wasn't my fault. He shouldn't have jumped on the counter. I'm like, no, it's 100% your fault. If you leave something on the counter that like if you left poison on the counter and he ate it and he died, is that his fault or yours? He's a dog. He has an IQ of 20. So I've been mad at him all weekend. Right.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And just like, I've never picked up this many shits. So it was like he had never shit in the house. And then it was like a year and a half of shit saved up. Jesus. Just dropping them everywhere. So anyway, Murph's back. What did they make? A wedding cake? What the fuck? How much ice did he eat? I don't understand. And then I was like, do I have to take him to the vet today? Yeah.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And I'm like, I'm not fucking taking him to the vet. The games are about to come on. If he dies, he dies. I was like, it was like Drago. Creed. If he dies, he dies. But it was just... And I actually felt bad for him because last night I was like, I'm not even bringing him in. Just stay outside for two hours. And then I kind of forgot about him. I was watching a movie for Rewatchables.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And then I remember I heard him barking. I came back down. I brought him in. And he was like so emotionally destroyed. He's like, you left me out there. I didn't think you were going to come get me. So anyway, it's been a rollercoaster weekend. And I've had, I think, three hours of sleep. Wow. Can I say something? The lesson is don't get a dog.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's almost like a cheating spouse where it's like, I'll be right back. I just got to go to the bathroom. And then they're on a phone call in the closet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, the dog. The dog. Yeah, yeah. No, he's like, I'll be right back. Just going to go get some water. And it's like, what rug haven't I shit on yet? So anyway, I'm looking at our chat. What are they saying? People... Chris Schemmer says, I love how Bill still contends he's never done blow. I have never done cocaine. I swear on my kids. I'm not even positive I've been in the same room with it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I'm like very virginal with cocaine. I'm not going to ask you if you've done it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It was the start of Goodfellas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah. So anyway, Murph ruined my weekend. Yeah. And it looked like the two bets were going to ruin my weekend. And then the Chiefs came through, which brings us full circle. There we go. Can always count on the Kansas City Chiefs to save your weekend. Especially when they're the second team. I thought Romo was outstanding today. I want to mention that as well. Really good.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Right. He didn't have an incredible game. He ran for two touchdowns. He only threw for one. Yeah. The stats, the team stats were pretty even.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I really thought he did a great job. Romo, we were in rough shape with him a couple of years ago. It just didn't seem like he was putting in the work, but it feels like he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I think he did cocaine. That's it for, that's it for parent corner. That's it. So next time I see you will be next Sunday. We're going to be doing our annual Super Bowl props podcast.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's amazing. We always used to have to wait, right? Until the second week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You know we had that Pacers bet? Oh, yeah. Tell everybody what that is. Tell me. No, we did. Well, it's Pacers over... Minnesota under, Sacramento under. We did like four weeks ago. Now it seems like Sacramento might screw us because we need them to be under 42 inch. I think the Pacers... are about to make a little run here. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I'm just talking about from a gambling standpoint next couple weeks. I like when I'm, they have other guys back. I just think there's something interesting about them that I've been monitoring. What did we get? A lot of the teams in each conference, that's, and I think Golden State's on the flip side.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I think, did you see this, that Golden State is 1-20 after the third quarter when they don't have a lead? Right. To me, Golden State, if they don't make a trade, like this is, this season's a punt. Yeah.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, we're going to hit that one. We got it at like 41.5.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah. What's their record? That doesn't matter. Yeah, no, I don't know. Their record is... 25 and 20. So 47, they'd have to go 22. 22 and 15. 22 and 15? Yeah. That's pretty good. That seems like it comes out until last week. Yeah.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
46.5 is high. So we definitely hit that one. Golden State is 41.5 now. And unless they do a desperation trade, that one might be going under. The only other one... that I think I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Lakers look good in that Celtic game. I know. And then they look good against the Warriors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And I'm starting to wonder if maybe they found a little something because there's a physicality to them. I wrote them off. I thought they should have traded Anthony Davis and it's only two games. I'm not zigzagging, but I'm just watching them because I saw a team in that Boston game in person that It just seemed like they were figuring out an identity that I didn't think they had.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And then they did the same thing against Golden State. This was a tough stretch. Like this physical team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, they're seven games over 500. Right. And... I wasn't even considering them potentially being good until those last two games. Because they're defending way better than they did. They have enough shooters now. Gabe Vincent's giving them something. That he was not giving earlier in the season. So I don't want to plant a flag on it yet, but I might have been wrong about them.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, is he?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
No, Bronny's the best thing that happens to go into Laker games now because people want to, they want to see him, but they usually the game's over. Right. So we, I took Hench to the Laker game. We got out of there. We were out of the garage in like 30 seconds. Cause every, it was like the easiest time. Yeah. Lakers are up 20.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Usually people are fleeing, but everybody kind of wanted to stick around. Nice. Um, everyone just wanted Hench to leave, I think. Oh, he was in rare form. Yeah. The only other one is Cleveland. I was thinking about this for next year, that team that starts out super hot. Yeah. They're ridiculous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And then around the 40 game mark, they're huge favorites in every game, but they, they relax a little bit and they lose a couple. And I, I want to remember that for next year.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Wow. What's crazy is the Thunder Coach is 30-1, and that guy's doing an amazing job. He lost Holmgren for the whole season, basically. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Joker at plus 230 for MVP on FanDuel seems like really good odds. As you know, I'm not allowed to bet. All right.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
No, but I'll tell you. Here's why. Because... First of all, it's only game 45. Second of all, there's really only two candidates right now. But Denver's a four seed now. Like you can't win the MVP unless it's either a shitty year or you're like a top three team. They're probably going to be a top three team in the West. Which puts him in play and he's having this historic offensive season.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It's at least an argument. So that's the hedge on Shea?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Oh, when we were telling people early. Yeah. Yeah. If you're just talking value. Yeah. It's a two-person race. There's no one else. I would be really surprised. Oh, man.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah. Everybody's triple figures. Anybody else? No, it's those two. So if you wanted to hedge it, I would hedge it with Jokic. The rookie of the year is funny because all of a sudden Ware on Miami became the favorite because he was good for two weeks. Like that's how bad. I still think Castle plus 310 is probably a little.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, this was a weird game because Lombardi, shout out to Lombardi, always used to talk about the middle eight, the last four minutes of the first half, first four minutes of the second half. The Chiefs have the ball, and they're driving down in the last four minutes of the first half. They get that crazy worthy call that... We do this all the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, and then most improved, that one always changes right around mid-February. All of a sudden, people get excited. Same for defensive player of the year. I think six man's a little more open than Pritchard being minus 170. Because he hasn't been... Just looking at those odds, Ahmed Thompson, who's been incredible, especially lately, he's 8-1.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
He's having, I think, a more impactful year than Pritchard is. You could argue Thompson's the best rocket right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Are you doing content with Tate this week? Yeah. What do you want me to ask him? Is he focused yet on Charlotte trading for Curry? That was always his dream scenario. Oh, interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I don't think Golden State's ever traded Curry. But Tate's dream was Golden State was going to become mediocre. And at some point, the move was just to cash in Curry during the last stretch of his career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
He goes back to Charlotte. First round pick? You grew up there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Anyway, ask Tate. See what he thinks. All right. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal. Thanks to Saruti, even though he's not here. You can watch all of our stuff on YouTube. Please subscribe for us. And then I got a new rewatch of us coming tomorrow. So that's the podcast. Sal, congrats on the Guest Alliance title again. Good job by you. Good job by you, buddy. And good job by the Chiefs. Thanks, everybody.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I still don't understand the rules of football, and I watch football. Neither guy had possession, and the ball touched the ground, and it just seems like that's a dead play. Nobody gets it. They should have gone back to the 20 instead of the 5. Whatever. So they score... And you start going, wow, this could be a blowout. They're up 21-10. They stop the Buffalo here at the end of the half.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year, by the way.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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And who knows, one of them could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. Once again, LinkedIn.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Hookah.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
These are perfect. Everybody, Bondi. Visit hookah.com, H-O-K-A.com to learn more about the Bondi 9.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
They get the ball. The Chiefs at the start of the play. Well, they didn't stop them. The Bills scored, but they didn't get the two. But I'm saying before the Bills went down, it felt like the Chiefs were going to blow the game open. I got you. Yeah, yeah. Right. Buffalo comes back down. He hits Matt Collins in that touchdown. It's 21-16.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Now, all of a sudden, the Chiefs get stopped at the top of this. So they actually lost the middle eight because then Buffalo came down and took the lead. And they still won the Chiefs somehow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Yeah, I thought they were going to get last possession in the first half, first possession second half. You score both times, you're up 28-10. Yeah, they did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
No, that turned out to help Buffalo. The challenge had been overturned. I don't, you're right. They probably don't get the first half. Right. And that was the one real mistake that the chiefs made was, uh, Leaving Hollins open on that one play. Hollins ended up having two big plays. His over-under for catches was basically... I think it was one catch. It was around even.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It was minus 130, something like that. If I'm Buffalo and I leave this game, do you leave this game going, how did we not win that game? Or do you leave that game going, we're just like... three plays short. Every time we play this team, we have the fourth, the one, the QB sneak where Alan actually gets stuffed. Wait, who knows if he actually got stuffed or not, but they call that Casey ball.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You have the Kincaid play where, um, I don't know. That was the fourth and five spags caused the blitz. You knew it was coming. Alan makes a great, just to jump up and heave it toward Kincaid was great, but they had that wide shot of it. And it seemed like the ball was almost like spinning.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
It was almost like a, like a, when a baseball, when they hit like the, the pop fly, that just is like, has some weird thing to it. And Kincaid dropped it. And I'm sure he's going to take shit tomorrow, but I actually thought that seemed like a pretty tough catch. Did you think that was a drop or a catch?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
But it's the kind of play that a D-back drops over and over again. Yeah. Like the tip play at the line or the flutter. And it's, oh, I can't believe he dropped that. But Kincaid was on offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
Weird. Well, so the Chiefs have the ball after the two-minute warning. The Bills don't get it. And the Bills need to get a stop. Did you think they were going to get the stop? Because I did not. And as it turns out, they had two chances to get a stop because the Bills scored. They got the first down on second down, but the guy stepped out of bounds. So now they had this fresh set of downs. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
And each time the Chiefs were able to get the eight, nine plays. Conversely, Buffalo had a bunch of chances. to make a big plan of fourth and one or fourth and five, fourth and three. And there was a couple they didn't get. So I would assume that would probably be driving them crazy too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
They did get that when they were down, what was it, seven, when they got the fourth down play in the end zone to Samuel. Which was a nice play.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
They'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Verbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I do have a new Rewatchables episode coming for you on Monday night. Can't wait for you to hear it. You can also watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. Coming up on this podcast, Cousin Sal is joining me.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
So Buffalo missed two points, right? Mm-hmm. Then they missed a fourth and short. And you would think with Allen, they would be the most devastating team in the league with any fourth and one, fourth and short. Two point. Which was, I don't know, one of the legacies of this game. It was kind of shocking not to see them get certain plays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I felt like the Chiefs were slightly better just because I felt like their defense... I trusted their D a little bit more to maybe get a stop when they really, really, really, really needed it. Even that, you mentioned that spag splits on the last play, that fourth and five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
This goes back to what I was saying earlier about how fun it is to have a team like this, that we have a real history with it. You know, we root for these NFL teams and the entire team changes over in two years, you know, or you have these teams, like look at what's going to happen to the Cowboys and they haven't even made the Super Bowl, but two years from now.
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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
two years from now, are Dak, C.D. Lamb, and Prescott all going to be on the team? Probably not. You know, and that's usually how it plays out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
You're right. But in this team, same infrastructure. It's Mahomes. It's always some cast of running backs and wide receivers with Kelsey. Yeah. They always have a decent line. Chris Jones is always there. Andy Reid always is doing some funky plays that seem like they're going to work. And then Spaggs, every time they need it, seems to dial up the perfect blitz.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
That blitz on Allen was a great call. I was waiting for it the whole game, and it didn't seem like they could find it. Then they found it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal
I did.
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
the premiere on Friday night had a bunch of people that I got to talk to Joe Mazzola about the town. So exciting. Joe Mazzola, I'm making him come on the podcast. He was a, he was a really fun Hank, but, uh, but we had a really fun premiere of episode five, which was about, um, a part of the eighties with the Celtics.
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It wasn't. Well, they also, it's weird with Bridges and OG. I texted during the game because one of my favorite Rizzolo jokes is though, was Tobias Harris out there? Oh no, he was out there for the last hour. Like I always think of you anytime I'm watching a game and I'm like, oh, it's Mikhail Bridges. I forgot he was playing. It's exciting.
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then OG, but both of those guys had these really like quarter long stretches where they might inbounds the bottom. Like, oh yeah, Bridges, there he is. They haven't figured out the same way the Celtics, I think, with White and Holiday, who can take a backseat because Tatum has the ball a lot. They'll run the place for Porzingis.
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Jalen Brown will have his first five minutes of the second quarter as my dad's just bitching in the stands the entire time about the shots. And White and Holiday have figured out how to kind of sneak in and out and get little fast break layups or get like threes in the corner. And they're always involved.
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And what I saw today and what I've seen on TV too is there's just games where Bridges and OG just aren't involved.
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They were throwing everything at Brunson. They were really disciplined.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, you know, I was ready to almost leave the pod with Tatum. And then he had this really terrible stretch where I was like, this is still like the last hump for him. Because the first half of that game, his two-way game, and you saw it in the Philly game too. And I feel like it's getting better as the year goes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
His passing, it feels like he's going to be between seven and ten assists almost every game now when he's locked in. His rebounding. And his Swiss army knife stuff that he does on D where he can guard basically everyone on the other team. I do feel like he's going up a level, but there's that still that last piece where it's like, he never has like the awesome 48 minute.
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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Oh my God, he blew my doors off game. It's like three quarters of the four. And I think that's the last level for him. If you want to be on that SGA Jokic level, you've got to do it for the whole two and a half hours. And right now he's at about an hour 45. Does that sound too nitpicky?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So, you know, that's in my wheelhouse, but, uh, very excited for everybody to watch it. And we'll be talking about a bunch over the next, um, next few weeks. So I wanted to mention FanDuel because on Tuesday on FanDuel Sportsbook, you have the Mavs and the Lakers playing for the first time since the blockbuster trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, because sometimes when I watch him... When he's really going well, I feel like he's got all the pieces, but at this point, I think it would have happened. I think we would have had some sort of nudge where we would have some crazy stretch, you know, that all the greatest players have had. Like what SGA just had. Where SGA was just like, I'm just going to score 50 points a bunch of times now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And my team's just going to win every game. And it's just, that's the last. So he's like a level below. And that, you know, all the MVP ballot stuff, the MVP is basically done. It's the top two guys. But I think Tatum's, I think he's been the third best guy in the league this year. I would put him against Giannis. I would pick Tatum. I think he's had a bigger impact on a winning team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I know his team's been a little bit better, but he's... The durability thing is the piece with him that I just think he doesn't get credit for. He fucking plays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And guarding towns on the other end. There's nobody in the league doing that other than him, basically.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So it's the first Luka revenge game of I'm sure there's going to be like 40 Luka revenge games. FanDuel is giving all customers a 50% same game parlay boost. for that matchup. So just go all in one way or the other, because the easy way to do this is be like, I'm going to take the Lakers and I'm going to take the overs for the Luca.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That's how I felt today watching it. I just feel like he's maximized a lot of stuff that he's been working on the last couple years. And if you took this version of Tatum and you put this version in the 22 finals, I think they'd beat the Warriors. And he wasn't even close to being able to do 40% of the stuff that he could do now. I love the rebounding. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And I love the durability and the fact, you know, JJ said something about this because he was talking about the Lakers. This was even before the Dallas game when he was, you know, because they're way better on defense, the Lakers. I think they're like third in defensive rate in the last 20 games. And, you know, they were even playing better before the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And somebody asked him what was different. And he's like, you know, The NBA is about just playing hard, just making sure your team plays hard every night. And I think that's a skill that Tatum, where if he's taken off a quarter in Charlotte, you really notice it because of the level of intensity that he has game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
When he doesn't have, you're like, oh shit, what's wrong with Tatum? What's he doing? He's just jacking up shots. Why isn't he rebounding? Like, it's really, like, glaring. So anyway, I think he should get probably more credit for that. I don't know if there's an extra half step for him. Maybe we'll find out in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I don't think it's ever going to be as easy. Like that, for the Jokic stuff, that Jokic night-to-night, it's just easy for him to create shots for everybody. The best possible shots, right? Last night's a bad example, but for the most part, SGA is just like, he's just getting the 35. Yeah. He's just getting to 40. It doesn't matter what you're doing. He's just going to get to where his points are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And I think Luka is in that category too. I don't know if Tatum's ever going to be at that level, but I think to me, he reminds me, it's a weird one. And I know I'm thinking about it probably because we just finished this nine part Celtics docuseries. But to me, he's more like a Havlicek type guy. He's this Swiss army knife that does all these different things for your team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's never the best scorer in the league. He's never the best assist guy, but he just, he's just additive. And I think that's the level that he's gotten to. So he probably reminds me of Havlicek the most, even though he's taller and, you know, he's got size, all that stuff, but just like they could play small ball center with them if they wanted.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He could also play point guard for them if he wanted. Yeah. Um, the other thing with the South side, I think Cornette has been playing really well and Pritchard's been up and down hazards coming back, but they're getting more of a bench than I think. And then Horford being able to only play like 18, 20 minutes, their benches is back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And I think I, I wouldn't be surprised that they went on a little run here over the next, uh, next three, four weeks. Cause they haven't really had a run this season. You know, we're going to talk about that after the break. Some teams that we think might make an actual run. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a streak.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like, have you been, have you felt like they've had one kick-ass three-week stretch other than, like, you'd have to go back to November? I just don't remember it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
If you're going to take the overs, go big, go like 40 plus, go 10 assists, try to stagger it. So you get this huge thing or go the other way and just assume just about everybody's going to be going on the over with Luca. So zag, Do a couple unders. Do the couple unders with the Mavs to win. Either way, 50% same game parlay boost. And remember, goes live on Tuesday. Look for it then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Let's take a break. And I want to talk about teams that can make an actual run. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance. With the personal price plan and bundling home and auto, it's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. So I want to talk about intriguing subplots with 30 games left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And some of them are easy to figure out and some of them are a little harder to figure out. But the number one subplot to me, and I can't believe I'm even saying this and it makes me mad that we're in this position, but what can you do? I think the Lakers are the number one subplot to watch over the next 30 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
The Denver game was so interesting last night to see like the real Luka in a Lakers game and to watch, you know, their centers, whatever. They're just double teaming Jokic. They're just going to be happy with Westbrook and those, like whoever. Fine, shoot 16 for 41 from three. We don't care. We got to take out Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But the thing that I really noticed that people talked about when they made the trade was just 48 minutes of Luka and LeBron or Luka or LeBron. But you always have somebody out there who just has this crazy IQ and is a really good offensive player. And I've never wavered from thinking Luka was going to be awesome on this team. I just thought it was scary last night. And if I'm in the West...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think there's four teams that can win the title and we can talk about a couple of wild cards. I think the Lakers are an official wild card for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
What's your explanation for that? Other than just they're playing hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Claim the PBT, the profit boost token. Place your bet for Tuesday's big game. Look for it in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Coming up for the first time. On Sunday this year, I think it's like year seven for us. Ryan, Marcilla, we're going to talk basketball and basketball and more basketball. And we're just sprinkling some goofier stuff as well. He's next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, they did the same thing that that Celtics game that we both went to in L.A. where they kicked the Celtics ass. And part of it was they just were really well prepared. And they used a bunch of things against the Celtics that I'd kind of been waiting for, you know, somebody to do. Like, oh, you're going to try to force it to Porzingis? Great. That's going to throw your whole team out of whack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like, keep giving the ball. And Porzingis had a good first quarter. Nobody else did. And then it's like, oh, here's the top of the second quarter. This is when Jalen tries to get his offense for six minutes. We're going to make it really hard for him. And you were just watching it going, oh, this team's got their shit together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Last night against Denver, you would think, well, why doesn't everybody do that against Jokic? First of all, it's hard to do it. Second of all, it's hard to commit to it. And your guys have to be really disciplined with it. But they also have smart players. Everyone makes fun of Luka's defense, but he's still a really smart basketball player, right? LeBron...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think has been noticeably better on defense for, what, a month and a half now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
The first month of the season? Where it was like, oh my God, he's just not playing. He's a DH now. Now he's really active. And they just have size and physicality that I think... You saw it against the Celtics. They bullied the Celtics. Now, you know, slightly different team. But when they have those... When they have Rui and LeBron and Luke all together, like those... Like 800 pounds of dudes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I wrote down... You tiered us up? No, I wrote down things I like about them. And the number one thing is just always having Luka or LeBron out there. One of the two or both. I think it's just... It's just really hard to play them. You don't have a moment like you had with the Knicks today where Brunson has to sit down. It's like, all right, it's campaign time. Cross your fingers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like, the Lakers just never have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this 4.15 East Coast time because I'm in Boston. Just went to the Celtics' Knicks game. It's another emotional year for us, Rossello. Sundays with Rossello. We're back. We made it. Another basketball season to talk about, complain about, break down. Plus, we have a whole bunch of other things, too. We have the NFL drafts coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's going to think he can get to 20. The fact that the defensive numbers are like, if they were ninth or 11th, the Lakers, I'd be like, okay, that's a little fluky. There's probably some, when you're in the top five, when you're in the top three, like that's not fluky at some point. I think JJ is a legitimately good coach. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And I thought what they did last night to Joker, who is terrible because they made him terrible. But then you just look at it. It's just that at some point it's math. Last night, LeBron and Luka had 59, 19 and 12. If you're going to get numbers that look like that from your best two guys, you're going to be heard from from a couple of playoff rounds. So if I was a Laker fan, I'd be excited.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But this is why we all went. That's what the trade happened. This is fucking crazy. You don't just get to add the fourth best guy on your team. In the league to your team, just, you know, for Anthony Davis, Max Christie, who, by the way, has been playing great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, they're probably trying to outscore. Yeah, the Luka dialogue was... I feel like a lot of the sports dialogue is just getting worse because it's just this quick rush to whatever judgment. He could have one bad game, his first Laker game, and everyone's like, oh my God, this is why the Mavs traded him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Nobody thinks of the human element of, this guy thought he was going to be the next Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. He had no idea the trade was coming. They trade him. He's got to move to LA. He's got to figure out where he's going to live. He's taking shit about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's got a drinking problem and that he eats too much and they didn't want to give the max and they're just, you know, laying into him left and right, leaking stuff to make him look bad. On top of that, he's got to figure out how he fits into this new team. He's got to play with LeBron, who's this guy he grew up watching, right? He's got to figure out how he fits in offense, new coaching staff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's not in shape. It's like, oh, you think this is going to go bad for like a week? Yeah, and he hadn't played. He hadn't played in two months. He hadn't played basketball. Perkins tweeted three days ago, it's going to be another two, three weeks before we see the real Luka he is to get in basketball shape, get his legs under. And then last night, he tweets, like I said, give Luka time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's like, yeah, no kidding. We got to give Luka time, sure, to adjust to his new team and get back in shape. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to figure this out. He's had one of the five best offensive starts to anybody in the history of the NBA in their first seven years. I think we're going to be okay with Luka Doncic. I'm not worried. But people were worried. I don't know what happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Who did you respect that was worried? Well, but some people have platforms. This is kind of what you do. You just go nuts. Get mad. Luka Doncic was terrible. This is why the Mavericks traded him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's fair. We can talk to Elon about it. Have you been hanging out with him much lately? I haven't talked to him. Lakers have the six best odds on FanDuel right now, so it's not a hot take to say, oh, I think they're a title contender. I think that's where they are. I think they're in that wildcard team. I went back and I looked at... I think this needs a name.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I came up with post-All-Star late bloomer, but I think we could do better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, these teams that over the course of the last 30 games at some point got their shit together and became a real contender. So the reason I thought of this was because we watched it happen with Dallas last year. Dallas was 16-4 to finish the season. They were fifth net. They just... Remember they had a big winning streak, then they had a losing streak, and then they started winning again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And at some point... it felt like there might be something there in a real way, right? 2023, it happened with the Lakers. They were 16-7 down the stretch, fourth net. They ended up making the Western Finals. 2022 is when the Celtics, were they 25-25, then went on the run. Their last 22 games, they were 17-5, first in net.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It might have been, maybe 24-25. They made the Finals. I threw out the two strike, not strike, the COVID years. And then in 2019, Portland, finished the last 25, 19 and six, fourth net, and they made the Western finals. So this does, there is a team, there's a track record of a team we didn't think was in the top three or top four moves up there. And for me, it's either the Lakers or Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And we're taping this right now as Golden State's playing and they're beating up on Dallas. But those would be my two picks. Golden State or the Lakers. And I'd probably lean Lakers because of Luka and the talent. Who would you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That's fair. But I don't think they... Would you necessarily say they would be an out-of-nowhere team? I guess it could conceivably happen. I think they're more likely to have more injuries and weird shit happen than to go on a run. But maybe I'm wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I'm sure you have some movie and music thoughts. Maybe some Oscar thoughts. Maybe some White Lotus thoughts. I never know what you're up to. How are you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Oh, no, I'm just saying there's a scenario with these brackets where if they're not four or five, if they can somehow avoid OKC to the Western Finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, so they would have to get to two or three. OK, all right. I think it's completely, completely reasonable. Right now, they're 34 and 21. Memphis is 37, 19 and Denver is 37 and 20. I think they have to leapfrog. I don't think they'd want to play OKC, but I also wouldn't blindly pick OKC against Luka LeBron either. Would you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I mean, I would pick them to win, but I wouldn't be like, oh, lock it in, write it in marker that OKC is 100% winning. I'd be a little nervous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You want to talk some James Polk? I don't know where you want to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I still have Denver and OKC in the Western Finals. But I think if you start thinking about series by series, game by game, this Lakers team is scary, especially with the fact that they're actually well coached. Right. And there's their matchup team. I think they're a team that could win on the road in a game seven. Right. How many teams could actually go on the road and win a game seven?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's not the longest possible list. This is a team that would not be afraid to go on the road. I think the Vincent thing is important for them, too. because that's a guy who they signed who's been banged up or sucked for a year and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then people forgot that he wasn't good, that people forgot that he was actually good and valuable in Miami and was in big games for them and kind of knows where to go and what to do. He's one of those guys. And you need a guy like that on a weird team like this. And the fact that Reeves has gone up a level and JJ loves Reeves. I mean, the best thing JJ and LeBron have done
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
have been just pump Reeves up, pump him up, make him really think he's this gifted offensive player. And I think he's playing with so much confidence now. How many teams have a third guy who's as good of an offensive player as Reeves is? It's not a long list.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Okay, we'll save it for later. I just went to Celtics-Knicks. I have just the slew of thoughts. We're watching the game. I'm sitting with my dad. And I just think the Knicks are a bad matchup for the Celtics. And we're saying that the whole time. We're like, this team can't play with us. And the Celtics get up to like in the mid-20s. It's like 24, 26. And then the Knicks come roaring back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I was thinking somebody on Cleveland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
When you're talking about good offensive players, a good litmus test is that guy scored 45 last night. Are you surprised? Right. Like if Derek White scored 45, I'd be like, what? Did he make like 12 threes? What happened? But Reeves had that game the other day when everybody was hurt. What did he have? Like 38, 40? No, he had 45. He was 14 to 26. That's right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That trade made me mad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Because you liked D'Angelo Russell so much? No, because I wanted the Lakers to not be good. I said, fuck, they got Finney Smith? Finney Smith's good. He's an additive player. There were some guys around the trade deadline that I was wondering... I still can't believe the Lakers didn't go after Nick Clarkson. Was he available, though? I don't know what... What are the Nets doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I mean... Playing their ass off. I know, but they traded to get their picks back for some tanking plan, and then they just can't stop beating teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Watford was like, I gotta get this video to the scouts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
In that Philly game, they had a couple moments where they blew the lead and were like, all right, valiant effort.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Somebody else would hit a three and they'd be winning again. Whatever Philly is doing to Embiid is one of the weirdest subplots of not just the year, but the decade. I have no idea why he's playing. And he looks miserable. He's falling down, I think, twice as much as he's ever fallen down. Looks like he's legitimately hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think this is the highest the last couple weeks. He had that play when he ran in to contest a play in the corner and just kind of went into the third row. He couldn't stop. It's pretty brutal. So the case for Golden State, really quick, to be the late bloomer, is just the combo of... Jimmy, I don't know what it is about Steph.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They come roaring back, man. Brunson and Towns. And we're watching like, should we be scared of it? Should we be scared? And then now it's like, it's nine, it's seven, then it's six. But we slowly realized that Tibbs has just left his starters in basically the whole game. And that's one of the reasons they're hanging around. And my dad's freaking out. I'm like, no, there's no way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It would be the greatest feature somebody wrote, but it just seems like everybody that passes through Steph's life, they turn into Gandhi for like the first three weeks. Like the way they talk about him, it's just like this religious experience to be Steph's teammate. And Jimmy is like so happy. Like there was that clip of him diagramming plays in the huddle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
This is a guy who was just sitting next to the water cooler the last three months of the Miami season. And now he's like, Draymond, come here. I have an idea for a high screen. And he's just so invigorated. And I think they're legitimately dangerous looking at their schedule. Um, and they're beating Dallas today as we're taping, but they got Charlotte Orlando's a mess at Philly. Great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
At Charlotte, at Knicks, at Nets. And then they have a seven-game homestand against Detroit, Portland, Sacramento, Knicks, Denver, Milwaukee, Toronto. It's a team that could go on a 12-2 run, and I wouldn't be surprised. So that would be the other one I'm kind of looking at. I guess the thing to watch is whether Curry can go up a level again or not, because we haven't seen it this year from him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That's the thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Towns isn't going to play like 46 minutes. Like we're fine. And then the Celts end up finishing him off. Here's where I'll start with you. Does Tibbs know that the regular season, especially in the East, doesn't really matter and that you just want to be one of the first four seeds and that to put miles like the miles that he put on some of his guys today is insanity? I don't get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. I want to watch it for a couple weeks. Like Butler, he's averaging almost 10 free throws a game for Golden State. As we're taping this, they're beating Dallas by... 20, and he's already 6 for 6. He's plus 24 in the game, but watching the way he's playing with these guys, it's weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It reminded me of when Moss got to the 07 Pats and was just so delighted to be in a real offense with Brady, and he was just like... skipping around. Right. And just so happy and, uh, had so much space and knew that if he was going to do whatever the ball was going to be there and Butler watching the space that he has, but also the connection he has with Draymond, I wasn't prepared for.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I wish we were watching the game right now. Um, but the, the high IQ thing he has with Draymond, I think has been fun to watch where he's posting up and Draymond's at the top. They're playing this weird two man game, but everybody's so scared of the Curry shooting. Um, I'm not counting this team out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Who is it? Brian who?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Pool guy in Melrose Place? I feel like you're making this up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So is there anybody else you would put on the late bloomer list?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So I had them marked down. They've been so, I mean, they were six and 14 in their last 20. So there's only a way to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So the other three I had marked down, it's not going to be Detroit, even though there's a lot of good Detroit numbers for the last 20, 25 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Not only is Detroit... for the people listening, probably locked into the sixth seed. It's not like an easy series for the Knicks. They're going to be favored. I would pick the Knicks, but I don't know if that's like the easiest series possible for them. The other two teams I have, Minnesota, just because, who knows, 31 and 26, but maybe something happens. Is Randall playing? I'm out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Is that good or bad? If Randall's playing, you're out. Okay. And then the only other one, I mean, Dallas, I guess we have to watch, but the only other one I was thinking was the Clippers. If there's a long, healthy Kawhi stretch, a Bogdanovich resurgence, they're really well coached like the Lakers. Could something blossom with them in March? I wouldn't rule it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
All right, more 30 games left subplots. So your pick would be the Lakers. I think I agree with you, but I have Golden State a little closer to them than you do for a possible late bloomer. Anybody else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I just don't understand it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They are. I just think they're unquestionably better when he's not out there for them. I don't know. I've been watching basketball my whole life. It's just, he screws up the spacing. He, he, He might be a good player on other teams for that team. He does not make sense to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Here's what I don't love with Minnesota. Okay, give it to me. As you know, I'm on the Amp bandwagon. There's been a lot of really high-volume field goal games for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Just the last two weeks, 28, 25, 28, 33, 18, 32. I don't think they're winning three playoff rounds with that happening, would be my point. And I don't really know. I haven't watched enough Minnesota the last three weeks to understand why that's happening. But it's just a lot of three. Like he took 14 threes in a game. He took 15 threes in a game, 17 and 14. Just a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then I look at the free throws. Like in one game, he had 28. They went by 19. He had 28 shots and 18 free throws. 25 shots and 15 free throws. it's just, it's a lot of ant. I don't, that's pretty easy to stop when you get to a playoff series. So I wish they had a little, but I don't know if they have a lot of other choices.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You made you doubt yourself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You did a good job on the lamello usage rate, shot rate stuff. You talked about that in your pod a couple of weeks ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They have the top Instagram handles in the NBA. Him and Lonzo have two of the top five for most viewers. People like the balls.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Oh, before I switch topics, that Minnesota Houston game when Dylan Brooks was talking shit to Ant and they got into it a couple of times and then that game just got more and more competitive and heated and kept going and kept going is in the running for my favorite game of the season. I love that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I wonder, is Dylan Brooks, does he do that again? Or is he like, all right, here's somebody I shouldn't do that to again. Or does he double down on it the next time they play? And what happens in a playoff series?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's definitely going to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
This is different, though, with Ant. I actually think he might double down because he might think Ant might punch him in a series, and then he would take Ant out of the series, basically.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Brooks is a better player now, though, than he was in that Lakers series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That's why with Thompson, it's like at least when he's driving to the basket, And he kind of doesn't know where he's going or what's going to happen. But he always goes by whoever's guarding him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Just feels like he's, depending on the matchup, he's kind of one of those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So look, I mean, none of this was... That's one of those where they could have probably flipped Steven Adams and one of the 90 picks they have to get Capella or somebody who could actually play a little bit more for them. I had them on my list for subplots for the last 30 games because they're 3-8 in their last 11, 18th in net. They've dropped to 35 and 21 for the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And they're a 5 seed right now, but... Like if I'm Golden State and I'm five losses back from them with a bunch of time left, I feel like I can catch them. Because I thought Houston was overachieving with some of the stuff that was happening to them the first two months. The league, their conference is getting better. Clippers are better. The Lakers are better. The Warriors are better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And I don't know if they're going to stay in the top six. That would be my pick to drop out. What do you think?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Because that's one of the subplots that's left is who are the 10 teams going to be? And more importantly, who are the play-in teams going to be? And then how can you avoid... that eight spot where you have to play OKC in round one, which would just suck no matter who you are. You know, it does feel like Phoenix is going to drop out and we should talk to them to talk about them. They're 27 and 29.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
They have three more wins than your Portland Trailblazers, your favorite team. They're six and they're last 15. They're 19th in that. I know you talked to Goldsberry about this and you're a pot on Friday, but I sat at that game with Goldsberry and the Suns were absolutely alarming in person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Oh, my God. I mean, we were pretty close to the bench, so I could really watch it. They weren't talking to each other. You know, you judge certain things, like how many guys get up after a big play on the bench. What are guys doing during timeouts? What happens when a star player walks by his coach? Does he acknowledge him? Does he talk to him? Does he just kind of stop by?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Does one of the star players yell at the coach? Well, KD yelled at Bud twice during that game. There was near the end, One of my favorites is when one of the stars, there's somebody shooting free throws at the other end and one of the stars moves to the furthest part of the court away from everybody just to go sulk in the corner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That was KD near the end because he was so mad the way they used him in that game and the team played like crap. They were playing all the hits and it is not a team that seemed very happy. And I don't know. I actually, we were talking and it was like, I don't think Bud was trying to get fired.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But it was the kind of coaching where you were like, if that guy's trying to get fired, I would point back to that game where it's like, you're just leaving Grayson Allen out there for the entire crush time and get killed by Darren Fox. It was weird. It was a team that was not on the same page in any respect and seemed unhappy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That was my takeaway leaving for two and a half hours, an unhappy team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Did he do that? When was that? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, you know what they unfortunately tried to do is they tried to trade him and didn't tell him. And I think that was the death knell. Because, you know, the way the NBA works.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You think that this whole season you don't think he wanted to be there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I don't know. Well, I never know what to believe with Durant stuff, but I'd always heard that he likes Phoenix. But I think it was a pretty unusual move by them to shop him around quietly with the don't tell anyone in a league where somebody is immediately going to tell somebody. And that's how they found out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I just thought that was the kind of thing you do when you're trying to burn the relationship. Well, Luka never found out. Um, I listen, I test while I've been watching three in his whole career. He's at a slightly different point in his career. Physically. You can see it. He's as amazing as he is. And we've never seen a guy with that kind of size and shooting and athleticism.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, he had, we're looking up and I'm looking at the thing. I'm like, I don't feel like Towns has come out. My dad's like, no, no, he's come out. And then he played 33 of the first 36 minutes of the game. Right. So he just went all in on that third quarter with his starters, basically. And they were trying to hang around. And it was, but the Celtics were playing their bench guys too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's a little bit creakier than he used to be. You can see it when you watch it. And it makes sense because he's been in the league since 2007. Like this is, this is how it goes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president-elect states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Sundays with Russillo are back next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch of us coming for you on Monday. We did an Oscar winner. You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
the bill thing was interesting to watch in person because he was in a funk to start the game and wasn't really trying hard. And then there was a moment where you could almost see him be like, Oh shit, this is on TV and there's fans. And then he started trying harder. Um, But, you know, it's an unhappy team. I will promise you that that team does not make the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
There's no solution for whatever is wrong with them. And I don't you know, it's it's probably the all time new owner syndrome example we're going to have other than Prokhorov, which I think is number one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Fair. Fair. It's unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, think about it. If we bought the Pelicans, would we just keep the roster intact for a year? Or would we just be going out to dinner every night trying to figure out what our first trade was going to be? I feel like they would be the latter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So I think Prokhorov was worse than the Luka trade. And here's why. Because the Luka trade, as ridiculous and absurd as it was, and it's going to go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the league, and maybe in the history of sports. So putting that aside, at least there was a strategy in place that I genuinely think they believed. The strategy was insane. It makes no sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And, you know, trying to keep their guys fresh for the fourth quarter. And then that fourth quarter started and you could see it at the game. You could see like Hart, who was, I thought really good. He's like, any stoppage, you could see his chest heaving. And Towns started to slowly die because Towns was awesome. But he ran out of gas. And the Celtics knew it. They started targeting him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It made no sense when it happened. It's indefensible. But they had a plan and a strategy. Prokhorov, his plan was, let's spend as much money as possible and do whatever it takes. I don't care about picks. Let's keep going, going, going, going. And then it didn't work for a year. And he was like, I'm out. No more money. I'm not spending anything. He just zagged the other way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But now they had no more picks left. I just don't feel like anyone's ever going to top that. Two strategies that one was worse than the other. And in the span of two years, and he just demolished basketball in Brooklyn for no reason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's like digging a hole for a street. It wasn't even one house. It was like nine houses. Which way do you want these highways going? North, south? I didn't realize the sun came that way. I'm out. Let's not do this. Just spell the lots.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Also, the iconic part of the reason you're getting rid of Luka because he's not a safe enough risk physically and his devotion to the game. And then you trade for Davis who gets hurt an hour into his first game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
This is your dream. This is what I want to happen to you. You marry into the rich family that's thinking about getting into professional basketball. This is it. This is the path.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then Towns finally twisted his ankle. But I just watch stuff like that. And I know we've talked about this tip stuff forever about how he doesn't care about the minutes. But I think it's really reckless. This team just needs to get to the playoffs with these five guys being able to play 40 minutes a game when we get to the playoffs. They don't need to do it now. You look at the standings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I remember when John Walsh sat me down and told me that my 10 was everyone else's seven. What did you say? Thanks, John. Just to relax on everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Most meaningful thing John Walsh ever said to me. Um, to care about the relationships with the people you have professionally, because those are things going to last after you do whatever you're doing professionally, which I think took me a long time to realize.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's a good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Um, more storylines for you. I almost don't want to get to Philly. I feel like Philly is like the... Let me ask you then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, but I'm saying I want to almost save Philly. Philly's like the fucking huge dessert we have coming out that's got the table where the guy's going to do a baked Alaska. That's how much excited I am to talk about Philly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think I've had it like once in my life. Philly is 20 and 36. They have the sixth worst record in the league. They've lost seven straight. And they owe a top six picks to OKC. And now they're in the zone where it's like, should we just fucking... Should we tank it? What do we do? And it's funny, I wrote down, could this hit mid-2010 Brooklyn proportions for them?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Or I was thinking of like the single weakest situations we've seen in the NBA. And I think the bleakest they can get, and I've certainly rooted for Celtics teams that had pieces of it. Like when the Vin Baker trade, when it became clear that there was no way of getting out of his contract.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It just doesn't matter after the top four and whether they're going to be two, three or four. I don't really feel like it matters. I think it matters for them to be healthy, you know, and any Knicks fan I know is like, well, just wait till we get Mitchell back. It's like, all right, so that's going to be your big X factor in the playoffs. This guy who barely ever plays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And you just start looking ahead and you're like, wow, this is... So we're going to have this for three more years. And we're just fucked. And that slow realization comes in. And I think it's hitting some of the Sixers fans with the George Embiid money. So you have that on top of... You might give the seventh pick in the draft to OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You might not even get a draft pick out of this season if you can't land the plane on this lottery. What would you do? I would tank.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's not. It's not going to look better tomorrow. And then Paul George, he's like, yeah, my finger, I'm taking shots. It's like, well, why can't you move? Why do you seem slow half the time? Are there other injuries you have that you're not telling us about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
What are they doing over there? Do we feel like we went strongly enough on us being concerned from the moment they did that contract to the start of the season? Because I feel like both of us danced around, including in combos with each other, recorded, where I was trying to be diplomatic. But deep down in my soul, I just felt like this was a bad fit. And it's been way worse than I thought.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
keeping your fingers crossed on him, keeping your fingers crossed on Towns and six foot one Brunson and Nananobi who always gets hurt to just be able to roll like this for 40 minutes a game. I think it's irresponsible. I don't get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, I'm personally more disappointed because we had Phoenix in that big super boost, which I haven't lost all decade. So that was kind of like all of us were aligned on. We think Phoenix is going to be really good. I can't wait to watch this offense. And they've all been healthy, which is the weird part. To me, that's almost more surprising.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I can't say I'm surprised that Embiid broke down and that Paul George looks a little long in the tooth. What's surprising to me is how miserable everybody seems and the fact that there's no outs. To go 20 and 36 is really hard. That's a bad record. Now you're on pace for... what's that like 27 and 55. Like you're just, there's a reason they're in the standings.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Can I push back on one Paul George thing now? Yeah. Cause you said ultimately you're going to remember him as like kind of disappointing. I think he's exactly, it was exactly the best version of whatever career we ever would have thought it was going to be. I don't, like, he made conference finals a couple times. He had that one nice playoff series with the Clippers after Kawhi left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He also had a couple where he wasn't that great. I still, like, I would still take him over Vince Carter and Carmelo and people like that from a success standpoint. You'd take him over Melo? I wouldn't take him as a player from, like, I have Melo ranked in the top 75, but I'm just saying, like, his achievements... I think he's achieved more than Carmelo did as a player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He made it further in the playoffs twice. Or three times. He was in the conference finals three times. And he was second team All-NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I've heard that argument, but it doesn't explain 09 when I felt like they pretty easily could have beaten the Lakers. And I don't feel like he had a good enough series personally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You got me on the one. 2019 first team on Bay. I don't know. I think you said if you're going to compare him versus Carmelo and I was a Carmelo defender forever. But I also feel like now Carmelo has become a little overrated in retirement, which I think happens depending on if you have a podcast after retirement or not. I don't know. We were there for the Carmelo thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He was an incredible scorer. But the Denver years, pretty much all the way through until 2009 were disappointing. Right? Then pushing his way to the Knicks and making them basically trade all these assets that actually could help him if he stayed. I think that he gets dinged on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Paul's going to be taking a month off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, what would scare me for a Philly fan is we've seen this with other players that all of a sudden we're at a different level and you knew it right away. Like I always remember Jermaine O'Neal. Jermaine O'Neal had those two years where he was getting traded around and people were still acting like he was 24 and 10. Jermaine O'Neal just wasn't anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Usually when the stats drop this dramatically, they don't come back. That's, that's what we've learned. You can go on basketball reference. You can look at any of these guys. There's some sort of level, especially if it's second half of your career, when your stats go from like here to here, and that's just who you become. And we think it's coming back and it just never does. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I'm still going to defend Paul George's 2018. I feel like that was a really good year to start to finish. Even like that Phoenix series, like he was kind of carrying them. It was like he'd kind of reached his, the 2019 OKC year was good. And then that Quipper run. I don't know what it is for Carmelo. What is it? The 2013 Knicks season, right? The regular season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's a double pushback?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It would be a fun podcast just to discuss Paul George's career for two hours. There's been a lot of ups and downs because the bubble was really bad. The year after was really great. you could go all over the map with it. A couple more storylines quickly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Oh, do you? I didn't mind it. They paid nothing for him. He costs like five bucks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Good for him. It's a nice team for him. Hey, Ben, just play some defense and bring the ball up for us. Can you do that? Occasionally do the thing where you drive really hard and then kick it back out to somebody. That's all we need from you. Grab some rebounds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
If I'm paying Ben Simmons the minimum, I'm okay with it. If I'm paying $43 million a year for him, not as okay. Some quick storylines, quickly. Is John Moran ever going to be John Moran again?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
34 games, he's missed 22. He's averaging 20 a game, 30% from three. Free throw attempts down to 5.9. They're 23-11 with him, 14-8 without him. And there's moments and flashes, but... I was kind of expecting more from this season. We'll see. Maybe this, this is why maybe Memphis could be the late bloomer, even though they have a good record.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Could he just go on a heater the next 20 games and look like jogging? But it's, it's not the guy from three years ago. I'll tell you that much, at least not yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, and then Towns is somebody that I just think, and I thought he was really good in the first, in the second and third quarter. I thought he was really good. But he's also somebody I think you have to be a little careful with. He hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr. over the years, you know? But when they got back in the game, Brunson got cooking, which he does from time to time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Be good for four weeks in a row with you. Yeah. Put up like a 28 and 10 for a month. Um, so I'm watching that and it's hard to take Memphis seriously, not knowing what we're getting from that dude. Even though I love like Jaron Jackson, I think it's been one of the big winners of the season. I thought he went up a level. It's noticeable. He's an all-NBA guy for me right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Cleveland versus OKC for home court. 46-10 versus 45-10. Taping it before both of their games today. But I think that's the storyline at some point because one of those teams could get a game seven. And those are the only two teams left. Same thing for MVP where it's SGA versus York. Although it seems like SGA is... Kind of got it locked up. He's minus 500. It would take a lot at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Next one. This is specifically for you. Can the Pistons, how frisky can we get? How much friskiness should I be prepared for? Do I need to put on a frisky jacket to combat their friskiness?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
What do you think their record is in their last 28 games?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
19 and nine. Last 20 games, they're seventh in net. Cade Cunningham, your guy, you never gave up on him. You own the most amount of stock. You were just buying other people's stock when they were down. And he's averaging 25 and nine and has, if we kept track of who is the best player in that game as an award, I feel like he would have about 25 of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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20 of them, 19 of them, 22, somewhere in there. Uh, but he's been awesome and they can rebound and they're tough. That's what I like. They're tough. It's a tough, like kind of, it's a veteran team. And with some wild cards, beef stews out there, there's some elbows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Uh, the Celtics got, they did the same kind of the offense slowed down, but towns who had Tatum and a bunch of forwards guarding them, which Celtics strategy. And then, and then towns was like, I'm going to actually use my weight and I'm going to bulldoze into dudes. And you know, the refs were letting him do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Maybe he'll get invited to the Hall of Fame when Cade goes. I actually was... I've been sketching out all NBA every week just as an exercise. Good for you. Getting those reps in when no one's looking. Just part of the pod process. I have Cade. I think there's a real case for him for second team all-NBA right now. Who are your four guards?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, you figure Mitchell... Like, SGA Mitchell are first team. And Brunson's going to be second team. And if you're going to go at least a little traditional and say, I want to put a guard... as my fourth, you know, but basically the fourth guard and second team on BA it's between him and Edwards. And I think that's really it. What about Kyrie? Kyrie's in there and Curry's in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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If you're, if you're betting on the Curry bump, um, I had Kyrie and Curry and Edwards all 13, but I mean, it's all like, I didn't really, I spent five minutes on it, but I was just, I was like, Hmm, I wonder where Kate is. and Cade to me with what he's done with Detroit, they lose Ivy and they somehow keep going and how hard he plays every night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I, I'd have trouble leaving him off second team right now. It's him or Edwards. And you can talk to me in Edwards cause of the defense. And, but you know, they have the same right teams have the same record and you could say Edwards has more talent. So at least it's a good argument. So anyway, um, Kato would have on there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So the reason I wanted to mention them, though, is because I think they're going to be kind of a bitch in the playoffs. Just for one round. I don't necessarily think they're going to beat the Knicks. I just think they're going to be really physical, super excited to be there. And they have a really good guy at the end of these games who's not afraid of whoever the best guy on the other team is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And it's an unusual six seed for a conference that I think is pretty awful. Once you get past the first four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Some are asking. He never gave up a stock. He's still holding on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And all of a sudden he went from like zero points to 20 and about, I don't know, it felt like 20 minutes of real time, not even game time. So when you watch the Knicks, when you see them, when they're all playing well and you see the five guys and they'll have these eight minute stretches where it makes sense. I just don't think with the way he plays the minutes in the bench, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So a couple more subplots and then we'll go. I mentioned the all NBA battles. What's weird is the top five seem like they're locked in unless a Mitchell Brunson development can happen. But I don't know how Mitchell's, if Cleveland's going to have the best record in the East and maybe the best record in the league, he's probably going to be first team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Anyway, worst rookie of the year race in a while. Castles, Castles minus 175 on FanDuel. It doesn't even start. I went to the game Thursday. I didn't start. Um, Tenth playoff spot, Russian Roulette in the East. Orlando, seven. Miami, eight. A game and a half back. Atlanta 9 at 26-30, and then you have three teams that legitimately don't want to even make the playing game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Chicago at 10, 22-34, Philly 20-36 now, or 35, and then Brooklyn 20-35. Chicago, Philly, and Brooklyn I don't think want to be in the playoffs. Maybe Philly's just going to have to stumble into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Which is almost what happened at Dallas that year. And then Dallas ended up keeping the pick and getting lively. Remember, they were right on the edge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I still stand by my foundation. You know what? I look back at my playbook and... The thought process was you have Luka Dacic. You always have a chance if that guy's in your team. The next year, they made the finals. Was I wrong?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I have no idea who's going to be the 10th seed. And what'll be funny is if it ends up being Chicago, which I think would be the team I would bet on out of those three. Chicago, a team that openly tried to sabotage their own team at the trade deadline and still might make the playoffs. So you have that. Then you have Tankapalooza. The Cooper flag stuff's heating up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Washington has a four-win lead over everyone else. They only have nine wins. New Orleans, Utah, Charlotte, Toronto, Philly is our top six. And Utah's hilarious because every once in a while, they look really good. I watched some of the Houston game. And Houston was really trying to win and Utah's like, nah, we're going to do this and watch this and then we'll do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And they just look really confident from time to time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I don't really take them seriously as a championship contender, which is one of the things I want to talk to you about today. I think they're one level below. I really only think it's OKC and Denver and the Celtics and Cleveland right now. And I have room for a bunch of other people that these next 30 games can climb in. But I think the Knicks are a level below those four teams right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Trying to think. How many did the mid-80s Lakers win? They won five? Nine finals in 12 years. Listen, if this season, if any great thing happened through 50 games other than Dallas making the dumbest trade I've ever seen, we might be alive with Scoot. We haven't talked about this on a pod. We might be alive. We might be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
there's enough there and he's young enough that I feel okay. This isn't like where I was mentally, you know, a month and a half ago with this, where it felt like a sunk cost. Now I'm, you know, he's gotten better. He's getting so big. Uh, last thing. And Dallas got killed as we were taking this to go and stay, but, um, they're not getting their bigs back until the first week of March.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You can also check out our Ringer Movies YouTube channel where it's going to be as well. All the videos and clips from this podcast are on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. But... We are now a video podcast on Spotify. So, uh, you can watch it. You can listen to it, whatever you want to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
What do you, where do you have them in your head? Because that's another subplot for the last 30 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, the good news for them. it looks like they're going to keep the 10 seed no matter what happens, unless Phoenix gets their shit together, which, um, I don't think will happen. And I didn't make one be a subplot because we already know how that's going to play out. It's such a bummer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I thought San Antonio was kind of lurking as a party crasher for, uh, maybe a nine or a 10 seed, but now that one shot and they're going to sink back. Um, and the one B thing is a bummer. We don't, there's really not a lot to say about that one. Um, So if I had to bet, so Sacramento you would have as a 10 seed, 30 games left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Is there anything you've seen from Sacramento that got you excited since all the trades?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, I think San Antonio is out. I have Phoenix and San Antonio out, and I have Sacramento as the 10. I think that's how that plays out. And maybe Dallas passes them and becomes the 10 and Sacramento's 9. But I think that's something. It looks something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I could see Sabonis and Valanciunas back for you. I've loved it. You excited to see those guys? I know you watch a lot of Lithuanian Olympic tape. All right, any other subplots before we go that you care about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, I asked you, I said... we should talk at the end of the pod or near the end of the pod every Sunday about one rabbit hole we fell into over the course of the week. Cause I think we both fall into a rabbit holes, either a book rabbit hole or, um, some sort of YouTube or somebody sends you a video and you're like, what's that? And then you're watching seven of them. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I really want to talk about this Lorne Michaels book I was reading, but we don't have to do that today. So somebody sent me a Reddit thread about the Silver Springs performance by Fleetwood Mac in 1997 in the dance. I don't know if you're familiar with this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, so this is why, this is why the deep dive so much fun. Um, So Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, they're together as a band in the early 70s. And then they end up joining Fleetwood Mac, right? Both of them together and they're dating and they're in a hot relationship. And they write the first album there together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Rumors, the most famous album they made, they broke up as they're making that album. And then a couple other people in the band broke up too. Basically, everybody in the band's breaking up with somebody they're dating in the band, and that's what the album becomes. So they cut out Silver Springs, which is this song she wrote about Lindsey Buckingham. And they cut it out of Rumors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's a great song. They put it on the B-side instead, and it becomes one of the biggest albums ever, but Silver Springs is the B-side. And she's mad about it forever because it's one of her best songs. So when they do the dance... Now they've broken up. Lindsay's with somebody and they go on stage and they do this and they rehearse it and she's playing it the same.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But then when they do it for the actual concert film and the album, she really gets into it and starts kind of staring at them, giving some side-eye stares as she's doing it. All performative. I think I've seen this. It's one of the best clips on YouTube is Stevie Nicks...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
by the last like minute and a half of the song, and he's just playing, and now she's like turning over and walking toward him, and she's now like, and her eyes are starting to bulge out, and she's like, you'll never forget, I forget the lyrics, the voice of the woman that haunts you, and she's just like yelling it out, and he's just like, all right, cool, and he's just playing the guitar.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, and then at the end, she's like, the lyrics in the song are, you'll never get away from the voice of the woman that loves you. And she's like, you'll never get away. You'll never get away. And she's like, and it's a thing. And it's become, ever since YouTube popped up, it's become a thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then there's all these theories about the performance, how much of it was performative, how much it was a stage. This Reddit thread that I got sent was about how
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
they're preparing to do this comeback thing and they might've gotten involved a little bit again and make, because they have these different interviews where they're talking about what a good place they're in and they're, they have interviews together where they seem a little lovey dovey and maybe, maybe some sparks will fly, maybe not. But then by the time they do the dance, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
it's clear to her that she, that he's with somebody else, like for whatever, because here's the piece. He has a kid the next summer. So this is what the thread.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
With somebody else. By the time they do this performance, he probably knew they're having the kid. And this was when it maybe died for Lindsay. So the theory was for Stevie. So the theory was when she's singing this, it's like within a few weeks of after she found out, maybe they don't have a chance to get back together. And she's pouring it on in the thing. But it's a legendary YouTube clip.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Anyway, I read, I spent an hour and a half reading everything I could read about this on the internet yesterday. At 2.30 in the morning, Boston time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It was a really bad first half. It got a little better as the game went along, but it was not a great game for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's the 70s music stuff. Everybody's got a story that is at least worth an hour of your time that goes in a bunch of different directions. The other thing I found out was there's a 1977 performance of Silver Springs because people thought they never really played it that much. That's on YouTube in black and white of like an original performance of her, like right after they broke up singing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
So I watched that too. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I know that. And then later, I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just a chance. You'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you. This is when she kicks it up in the performance. And then the end is, was I such a fool? I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just a chance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
You'll never get away from the sound of a woman that loves you. And then it just keeps going and going and going. Yeah. Anyway, it all played out on stage, and it's amazing, and it's one of the best YouTube clips.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
What you just laid out reminded me of what happened in Vegas when they were building the casinos and the themes got stupider and stupider. And they were like, we're going to have a casino. It's New York, New York. It's going to be like going to New York in a casino. And then somebody else would be like, whoa, I'm going to make a casino called Aladdin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And we just go and it's like being in a fantasy. And then somebody else was like, I'm going to create Paris. And it's just going to be like going to Paris. Except somebody else said, I'm doing Venetian and it's going to be like going to Italy. Some of these casinos stayed and then other ones just, you know, failed miserably.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I wonder if that's going to happen with NBA trades where the KD trade was basically your version of them completely fucking up that last pyramid before they got better at it. Or maybe the Luka trade will be the last one and then we'll just get better at trades from that point on. Maybe not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It was really funny sitting next to my dad because he's like an old married couple with the Celtics team because he's been watching these guys so long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And so like the start of the second quarter, Jalen Tatum's out and it's going to be like Jalen's five minutes where it's like that part of the concert where it's like Keith Richards has a new song for you and he's going to come out and play like his song. And my dad's just like, Watch this. Jalen's just gonna, he's just gonna try to get some shots off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Like this is, just watch what's gonna, and it was like, he knows the team. He's been going to the games too long. He knows like every part of it. And it was just really funny because our record is like 39 and 15. We won the title last year. And it just proved to me, my 77-year-old dad, you're just never gonna be happy with sports. He's complaining about Jalen, who's awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, they're down big in every game at some point in the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He'll watch the TNT ABC sometime, but he watches every Celts game. Which is kind of adorable because that's how he finds out sometimes about other teams. Like guys, like he went to see Wemby right before the break and it was his first Wemby game. And it was just his scouting report really made me laugh because it was like, he's so long. He's not wrong. You think you have him and then he blocks it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was like, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Well, I like with the older fans how cut and dry it becomes. Like my dad just wanted the Red Sox to sign Bregman. He's like, we need a right-hand hitter. He's going to be good in Fenway. He looked up no stats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He had no, there was no BIP. There was no average annual salary.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, he's like, we need a right-hand hitter. And he's been really good in Fenway. He can't, you know, he can't lay down any of the stats of Bregman actually in Fenway, but that's just where he stands and that's the way it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's the Doc Rivers as a GM strategy of when I played Byron Mullins that time when he hit those threes. We got to get him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, I didn't do that. But I will say, I looked at his stats and noticed that he hadn't had a really awesome year since 2019, which made me nervous. But then MLB released their top 100 players. And he was like 57. I was like, yeah, baby. Bregman. Kind of sucked me back a little bit. The Red Sox had four of the top 100.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Christian Campbell, LaMarcella Mayer, Roman Anthony.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
No, you know what? I have 20 words for you right now. The Luka trade made me feel better about Mookie. It actually, it was a trade that was so much worse than the Mookie trade, which was reprehensible and awful. Cause at least we won the title with Mookie. Like they never even won the title with Luka. And then they traded them for, you know, they probably got more in the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
But I really identified with the Mavs fans because what they were feeling after the trade was like Red Sox fans on steroids and HGH, how we felt with Mookie. But at least with the Mookie thing, we had time to prepare and it seemed like it was headed that way for a year. It's like, oh man, this is not going to end well. Luka, they had no idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And then Manfred just daggers. We, we didn't want to be on a declining platform or whatever he said that I couldn't believe that, but you know, he's, He's setting the table because he needs to negotiate with other people. And he's trying to make it seem like ESPN was a bad partner. And that's why our ratings were down because they didn't push the game. I get why he did it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's just really unusual. But I think baseball is a local sport. And I think we've known that for 10 years. And you and I have personally talked about it 10 times. I don't think people want to say, oh, it's Sunday night. I'm going to watch the Cincinnati Reds play the Milwaukee Brewers. Like nobody's doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
All right, we got to go. Rossello, good to see you. We'll see you next Sunday. And next Sunday when Celtics City starts, the last segment of the pod, we're going to do some sort of topic based off of whatever the first episode was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
That's what the people wanted. They kept asking. Good to see you, Rosillo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle and Serena and Gahal as well. Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast. You can also check out clips on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have a new Rewatchables coming on Monday night. That is a video podcast as well on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And you can check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel for entire videos of that as well. I'm going to see you on Tuesday. Enjoy the next couple of days and I'll see you Tuesday.
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Uh, one thing to promote Celtic city, our nine part Celtics docu series that we did for HBO and max is going to be Sunday, March 3rd, the first episode, nine straight weeks in a row. Uh, Spent four years on this, obviously meant a lot to me. And I think we did an awesome job. I can't wait for everybody to see it. I'm in Boston because we did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
I think the Celtics are a very bad matchup for them with all the guys they have to throw up Brunson with all the ways they can attack towns with the fact that their two wings are just better than the next two wings. And those guys are really good. And, you know, I thought Josh Hart was fantastic today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And especially just watching, you know, there's stuff you can see on TV, but then in person, just the motor that he has. And now he's just trying to catch his breath every time the game stops. You can watch him. He's just like taking these big breaths because he knows he's got to like go like a rabbit again. But I think it's a bad matchup for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
And Cleveland weirdly is, I think, even though Cleveland's been great and they have 10 losses and they're playing after we tape this. I think Cleveland's a more realistic series for them than the Celtics are. With the size the Celts have. Now, the question with the Celtics is, poor Zingas we saw today. He was moving great. Are we getting that guy in April and May?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Drew, they've been really kid gloves with the whole season. Chad Finn of the Boston Globe was writing that he's on the DJ plan. I thought that was great. I'm going to steal it from him. He's just on that, yo, man, just be there in April, May, June. We don't care about right now. Feel free to just whatever. Pick your spots. Today, he gave a shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
When he gives a shit and poor Zingas is healthy, this team is still, in my opinion, the best team in the league. I just don't know. Is that team going to be there in April and May? We'll see.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
Oh, because I had a Brunson thing for you. Something important happened today. There was a moment. My dad and I agreed. I think he's become the preeminent flopper in the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
It's just a whole bunch of them. He's doing it on both ends. He's doing it on defense and offense. By the way, kudos to him because it's working. But I think Harden's getting a little older, right? Maybe his best flopping days... probably 2018, 19 range. Trae Young was there for a second, but I think some of the rule changes have gotten his head. Brunson's top of his game. He's flopping on picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
He's flopping coming off screens. He's flopping when somebody bumps into him on a drive. He's flopping for charges. I think he's the complete package. It was some of the best flopping I've seen. He's all first team, no question. Yeah, maybe I'm premature. I mean, he's clearly in the running for MVP. Maybe I'm vaulting him up too high. But just what I saw today, I was in awe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Their last Superbowl win was deer antler Ray Lewis season. Right. So that was, uh, nine years ago, 11 years ago, 10 years ago, the blackout. Yeah. 14, 15 where I was at Grantland you and you were working for doing stuff for Grantland. So yeah, it was 10, 11 years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
What do you mean you're doing the anniversary of House Hits 3? You're going to try to throw up on House again?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Well, so I don't know where Lamar ends up now because he's definitely not on that Carl Malone level, but he also really needs one of these games. And it felt like he was finally going to get it. And there's this whole alternate universe where Mark Andrews just holds on to that one. And we've moved into this whole other sliding doors of more Buffalo pain. Oh, my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And now we have this Bill's Chiefs game, which we'll talk about when we do Guess the Lines. But the Chiefs, this all somehow worked out. I feel the best for them out of anybody, right? Son of a bitch. There's four teams left. I feel the best about the Chiefs, the team that we kind of looked at side eyes for 12 weeks, wondering what the hell was going on with them. And now I like them the most.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There are these keep a drive alive calls, which is like that Will Anderson allegedly hitting Mahomes in the head or whatever. that play was when he didn't. Which feels like if we're going to review everything in the NBA and not nearly enough in the NFL, it feels like there's some sort of middle ground where they could look at that again and go, oh yeah, he didn't hit Mahomes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I can't believe I'm about to say this because I hate it in basketball and I hate it in soccer, but I really hate it in basketball, especially during the glory days of this with Hardin and Trey Young and some of these people. I just hated it. I kind of enjoy when Mahomes does it because he's turned it He's turned it into some art form that we didn't know existed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
You missed my Thursday pod. I talked about some wildfire recovery stuff, some charities that I really liked. So the five that I mentioned, the Wildlife Recovery Fund, calfund.org, SoCal Fire Fund, that is eifoundation.org, LAFD Foundation Emergency Fire Fund. That is supportlafd.org. World Central Kitchen, wck.org. And then Habitat for Humanity, which is habitat.org. I donated to all of those.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That thing that that one play when he was running out of bounds and he had the guy behind him and he slowed down like he was trying to get a call on a three point shot. I've never seen a quarterback do that before. Like the fact that He is so locked in on the situations at all times. Or when he does the quick slides as the guy's starting to dive, hoping to get a hit to the head.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He's exploited these rules that were intended to protect all quarterbacks, including him. And he's taken it and he's turned it against the defense in this really creative way. I got to respect it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's, it's, it's kind of, it's like those people that they do the clear magic marker on their license plate so that the, the, the speeding cameras can't catch it. It's like, I got to respect it. It's pretty ingenious. All right. He has like five tricks like that. But, um, the thing, here's the thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And I was on multiple texts this weekend and I go nuts when people say this and we were together with, for the first game and somebody said it when we were all together, this whole thing that he's inherited the Tom Brady Patriots getting, I know you don't like that. Yeah. This drives me crazy. This drives me crazy. I'm going to keep saying it. I was there for all those Patriot games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Sure, the tuck roll, which was, by the way, interpreted correctly. But we are the only team where the team was, we had a deflate gate fake controversy as we were trying to win a Super Bowl. And then we won the Super Bowl. And then they suspended our quarterback way later anyway. And there's still no evidence. Everything has been debunked. We had a four-game suspension.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm positive that hasn't happened to Patrick Mahomes yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So was Peyton Manning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I will fully admit that he would get whiny and he would turn and he would yell at the rest, but Peyton Manning did too. Both of them did. Wasn't like it was just, it wasn't like Brady was the only one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm in a defending Brady mode because even like his announcing, which has not been great, I'll be the first one to admit. And I know we've talked about it, but he does have moments of insight. During the game. We should hope so. Yeah. For 37 million a year. But there are moments like he caught the 12 men on the field. I've never seen an announcer catch that before. That was nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He had, I thought, when Goff threw that interception on the post pass, the deep one. And Brady was explaining, like, it actually was the right throw, but he should have led him right to left because he threw it straight. He loved the cornerbacks, love cutting that pass. And I was like, OK, here we go, Tom Brady. Don't throw a terrible ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then it's five more minutes of him just talking about big play. I got to get this. And I'm like, oh, God damn it. But I blame Burkhardt as much as Brady because I don't think Burkhardt sets him up enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's no Collinsworth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
There's just no way. They were going to go through the back door, Mike, and now they're going through the front door. The Rams might take this, Mike. My balls are so frostbitten.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Mike, I lost consciousness five minutes ago, Mike. Let's take a break for the podcast. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. From the first whistle to the final drive, FanDuel takes the NFL playoffs to the next level. Right now, new customers can bet $5, get $300 back in bonus bets if you win. $300 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The FanDuel app gives you everything you need for live bets, same game parlays, so much more. Plus, when you win, you'll get paid instantly. On Thursday, we're going to be talking about our favorite million-dollar picks. And we've got to make a comeback because we did not do well in round two. But I think... I think, uh, I think we're in a pretty large group for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Bonus issue does not withdrawable bonus bets. which expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I talked about it on Thursday. And if you want to help out everybody out here. That's how you can do it. So my schedule is going to be a little strange this week because I have to actually do a little unexpected traveling. So I'm not sure I'm going to have a Tuesday night podcast, but I will have two other podcasts. So it might be a Wednesday night, Thursday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. Chiefs Texans, we'll go backwards. I'd like kudos to ESPN.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
First network ever to play in the air tonight by Phil Collins before a sporting event. Nobody ever thought of it. They should try Pressure by David Bowie the next time or Queen. That would be good. Or Billy Joel's Pressure. Yeah. Or Billy Joel's Pressure. Yeah. There's songs I'm just good with now. Songs that we like that we've grown up with that should just be banned from sports now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And I feel like I've been doing this for 10 years, but we're really at a crisis point. In the air tonight, pressure. Anything from pre-89, just get it out. Let's go. Let's move to music from the last 35 years. We can do it. I'm positive. Let's go. There's been a lot of good music.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
in the air tonight. I honestly cannot believe we're still playing that first 40 minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So that Chiefs-Texans game starts with a long special teams play followed by the Texans guy has like a meltdown, throws his helmet down, shoves his coach, and if the game has barely started... And the Chiefs go three down. It's three nothing. And then the Texans go back and it's tied at three. And it's just like, this is the weirdest game I've ever watched. But the Texans hung around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I don't know if they actually should have won the game, but the game was, I think, closer than all of us thought. Their defense was good. Ultimately, I was never in real fear for the Chiefs. Were you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
But the receivers that we'd never heard of all year were making actually were like, that's his first pass attempt that's ever been thrown to him. It's round two. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It might be a two part on Thursday, but it's not looking like a Tuesday podcast right now. So stay tuned. I promise I'll have two more. Plus you get the rewatchables mailbag. is coming. All right, coming up, Cousin Sal and I, we went live on YouTube, which you can watch with us on Sundays. We only have two left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I know, but it's like what we were talking about earlier with that Baltimore Buffalo game. Like they don't beat themselves.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Houston had that play. It was a fourth and 10 in the second half. And they kind of rushed it to the line. And who was the announcer? It was Aikman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He's like, I don't like this. They should call timeout. They were just going too fast. Fourth and 10. I think he got sacked. It's like it's the little things you just can't do against the Chiefs. And then the other thing is January Kelsey, who's just a different human being than regular season Kelsey, who they put in the garage with that car tarp over him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
You know, and then just like maybe take it out for a spin on Sundays for 10 minutes. But in the playoffs, they actually use him and their offense just felt a little more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He looks like it's a snowy field, even though it's not. It looks like he's got the snow field cleats on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah. That's been the last really since Romo got attention. He's Aikman took it up a notch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
That was the best team this year, I think, right? That was my favorite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Houston special teams, that was another thing. It was a three-hour murder for them. That was another reason they lost. Missed field goals, missed extra point, kick return, all kinds of shit. They just weren't ready to win that game. in KC. We got a lot of Taylor Swift shots. Shout out to Tommy Alter in the background. I don't know if you saw him a couple times. Oh, nice. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Caitlin Clark, all the greats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And then the safety... So this had one of the great gambling moments, I think, of the decade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And this has been a cottage industry now because of Instagram reels and TikTok. I don't know how long we've been talking about these stupid... Sure. This was beyond a bad beat. This was 14 seconds left. I still don't know what the point of the safety was. I guess to chew up... So basically... He runs, Reza runs backwards, runs around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It really feels like he's going to get like stripped or it's going to be like a touchdown in the end zone or something terrible. Then he gets out and then they punt again. So I guess it saves seven seconds. So I guess my question is, was that worth it? All the things that could go wrong with your punter running around backwards in cold weather.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
We'll have next week and then post-Super Bowl, but you can go to the Bill Simmons YouTube channel and watch us, which is also where you get all the clips and videos. But the Cousin and I reacting right after the Ravens blew it against Buffalo. That's next. First, our friends from Pro Jam. These are the faces of two guys who just lost a decent amount of money. Cousin Sal is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm positive I would just rather punt it and get rid of the ball and you can have the extra seven seconds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
How many block punts are you if you're actually trying not to get your punt blocked? I don't know. It felt like an overthink. It was a little much. So the other thing was the line was eight and a half all week. When we were doing ringer Sunday pregame show on Saturday, it was eight and a half before you guys started the show. And then as the game got closer, jumped to nine and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So people got that Chiefs line somewhere around those two numbers, and then it ended at nine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It does feel like that should be a Twitter account or an emergency alert.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So if you're betting Casey up, you win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Cause we have the Washington that they cleaned up that Washington game made their playoffs. You think it did? Oh my God, yeah. It wasn't just the game. It was all the Lions bets. It was the Lions to win the NFC. It was the Lions Super Bowl bets. They were like really badly exposed with the Lions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Coming up, the cuz and I reacting to a pretty wild round two of the NFL next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And then on top of it, everybody and their brother, including us, had some sort of tease with the Lions, the Eagles, the Chiefs, Ohio State, whatever. The Lions were in a lot of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
The kids really do love the same-game parlays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Does Harrison like the same-game parlays? Is he old enough yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Six months from now, when he turns 11, maybe he can do them. By the spring. No, I think Washington made Fando a lot of money. I think there were a lot of futures that could have been pretty bad because there was a moment, and we had some Lions bets, they were somehow undervalued even though they were clearly the best team on paper in the NFC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm going to go on the record. I just blanket hate the safety running around to kill time to send it from 13 to 11 or whatever, 11 to nine. I'm just out. I don't like that play. Yeah. I don't trust safeties. I don't trust kickers. I don't trust any special teams like guys running around and all of a sudden he like gets and all of a sudden the ball's rolling around the end zone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I just, I'm not taking the risk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Don't run out of the end zone. Stupid. Yeah, there's a couple things. Maybe I've just been watching football too much for too many weeks in a row, but I can't watch another fair catch in the five-yard line. I just can't. Or the fair catch in the seven. I can't watch the guy... punting on the other team's 40, somehow punting it out of bounds anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It just seems like anyone we know should be able to just punt like a little dribbler 25 yards that rolls out on the 10. It just doesn't seem that hard. The holding on the kickoff, I just like, I would tell everyone on my team, like that guy today on the Ravens who gets the hold where he's just bear hugging the dude from behind. It's just an automatic, you're waived at this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
If you hold on a kickoff, you're waived. I'm with you. I'm taking your job.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
You have one job. Don't hold anyone. That's it. Don't hold anybody on the other team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I don't get it either. Well- This was a great weekend for the Chiefs because I think the Ravens would have been a much tougher opponent for them than the Bills. I also think... They'll probably not say this publicly, but I think there's a lot more animosity with Buffalo than maybe Baltimore. I think that Buffalo Chiefs thing is a real thing. And I just like the Chiefs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I can't wait to do guest lines for that one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Come on, let's play again. We get it when it counts. It's very similar to the Pats-Colts dynamic that didn't really totally shift until the 2006 AFC title game. Right. So maybe that'll be the Bills version of that. Maybe they will be the Indy, but the problem is the game's in KC. All right, next one. We'll go Eagles-Rams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
We'll save the Lions game for last because that's going to be really fun to talk about. It'll be hurtful. I was thinking with Eagles-Rams... This is like the perfect Eagles win for the Eagles fans that we know in our lives, right? Kind of ugly. They had the game. They kind of fucked it up in the last four minutes. Sirianni and Hurts, still a lot of question marks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It was a win, but it also was kind of like you escaped by the skin of your teeth. And then the only thing everyone can agree on is that Saquon Barkley is like the greatest Eagle of all time. And they all love Saquon Barkley. And he had another like magical game. It was basically like an AI spitting out an Eagles win in round two of the playoffs was how I felt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
They get another one, but they get to say, oh, I forgot Jake Elliott. That's another one. Jake Elliott missed the two extra points, but made some big field goals, but they could be bad at him. They could be bad at some of the strategy. It was perfect. Hurts. Strange one. He had the long touchdown drive. He ends up, he throws for 128 yards. Last week, he threw for 131.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It is Sunday night. We just watched the Ravens barely lose to the Buffalo Bills, which I guess is going to be remembered, sadly, as the Mark Andrews game. Right? It's got to be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So he's still 41 yards away from a 300-yard game. That's going to have to take him three games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I don't completely trust them when I watch them. We both had the Eagles in a tease, but they were also six and a half. They somehow not cover, but I never feel a hundred percent comfortable with him. And then the AJ Brown is another one. Like he had another huge drop. He had like a touchdown and screwed it up. So they've been getting nothing out of him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I don't remember how many things Devonta Smith did in that game. Goddard seemed like he was like the most reliable receiver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh my God. Well, and they fucked up the end of the second quarter too. That was another one. They're up three drive. All of a sudden they're going backwards. Then they're just letting the clock run out. Cause he took a sack. He took another bad sack for that safety. Yeah. So, um, I, Washington's a live dog to me. Like, like they're, they're the classic playing with house money, a lot of momentum.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
They're really good on offense. They're definitely not afraid of the Eagles. They beat them last year when they sucked, you know?
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I was going to say, if I told you in late August... Two NFC East teams will be playing to make the Super Bowl on the third weekend in January. You'd have been so pumped. Yeah, that's not as fun to consider it that way. This is amazing. I can't believe we're one win away from the Super Bowl. We're playing the Giants? How did this work out?
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It was two teams, and then the other two choices were the Commanders or the Giants. Right. You wouldn't have ever thought. We both like the Commanders. We went over on them. I mean, they have 14 wins.
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Yeah, I think we did a podcast segment probably four weeks ago where we were wondering if they had the three best teams. Yeah. Well, they didn't. They don't. Fast forward to the end of the movie. They did not. There was a cold weather element to the Seagulls game too. Yes. With the toughness, the Rams. Nakua had a huge drop. Kyron Williams had the fumble. Stafford had the fumble.
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No, no, we're going to name this after me. Really good tight end, had a great career, and unfortunately, big fumble fourth quarter. Big drop. Two-pointer. Lamar, 3.30 left. the whole legacy drive coming, you know, like whatever, whatever happens is going to set the discourse and where it lands is he actually comes through. They have a touchdown drive, but then they lose anyway. So I don't know.
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And we live in LA. We talk about this a lot on the pod about how we're both from the East Coast. I was a guy that was always like, I wouldn't throw a coat on when it was 20 degrees outside unless I really had to. The wind chill was bad. Lived out here for three years. Then when I go back East, I'm fucking freezing every time. And I get it.
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When the Rams go to Philly, it's like, I get why Nakua probably, you know, like... Passed us through his hands. It's hard to get used to.
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Yeah, Schrager asked me during the game. He texted me. Do you think, is this a good way to decide a playoff matchup where the weather comes in and you have a situation like that Eagles-Rams game today? And to me, 100% yes.
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It's such a huge part of football. I even think back to that Chargers-Bengals game when we were kids in 1980. I love that Chargers team. And then they go to Cincy and it was like minus 230 degrees and the Bengals just beat them. But it's like, that's why you play for home field advantage. Like you want, you know, you want people to come to your house.
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And especially if it's like a team like Miami last year playing in, um, or they Buffalo or KC Kansas city. Yeah. It's it's just part of football.
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Yeah, I think that's the right take. Yeah, because I remember one of the years when we beat the Colts, I say we, talk about the Patriots like I was on the team. There was one like super, it was the one when the fans were chanting, cut that meat at Peyton Manning because they had the cut that meat commercial.
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And it was just freezing. They scored three points and it was like a combo of our defense plus like just how cold it was. And it was like, that's why we won. It was really, that was it. The cold weather has been, a big advantage for the Pats over the years. I think Buffalo's won a couple of the Chiefs, definitely. But I like it.
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Right, yeah. Or a dome team.
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Well, because sometimes it'll be two cold weather teams in bad weather. And those are usually great too. Like the Packers. What was that? Packers Giants 08. Packers Giants. Yeah. Freezing. It was like one degree. But at least the Giants were used to it. I did not feel like the Rams were that used to it today. Really good Rams here. Definitely.
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Not only did they make the final eight, it felt like... They were pretty close in that game, and it was very similar to the Baltimore thing, where it was just they made some dumb turnovers. Philly had a couple of dumb plays on their own end, but not as dumb as the Rams.
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Can I give a shout out to Jack Wilson, the producer of the Ringer Sunday pregame show?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Text from Jack Wilson, 1230 Pacific time. This is when the Rams are looking good in the Eagles game. It's like first quarter, the Rams are moving the ball. Text me, if the Rams win and House comes to LA next weekend, do we want to bring JJ out too? Since Raheem is in Vegas, that's easy because then we can all do the show in LA. Great. It wasn't even the end of the first quarter yet.
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I don't know what we do with the lawyer thing. I was thinking about it though, as we were like younger, um, when we would watch sports, we'd watch like people like Carl Malone and a rod and, um, pre-2006 Peyton Manning, people like that. And it was like really fun to call people chokers and, oh, this guy chokes. Oh, and this guy, when it matters, he can't show up.
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So I just sent him back, jinx text. Yeah. And then Jack texts me back, shit, sorry, don't tell House. house is finding out right now.
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No house is happy. Cause he just, now that's a short ride to, uh, to Philly. I talked to house today, actually before the Philly game. Um, he, uh, he's, you know, obviously out of his mind, but we were talking about how crazy it would be if it was a Baltimore, Washington. Oh yeah. Like Superbowl have two teams located closer to each other ever played in a Superbowl.
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And we were like, this has to like, it's never been a New York, New York jets versus like, no, that's never happened. And it was almost like too weird. So the gods decided, yeah, this isn't happening.
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I feel like they're going to keep... It's all fine now. Let's take another break for the pod, and then we will talk about Washington and the Lions. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Hills Pet Nutrition. Hills Food, Shelter, and Love Program provides science-led nutrition for cats and dogs in shelters across America. They've helped more than 15 million pets find new homes.
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And it was like this really fun pre-internet thing that we would do.
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Washington lions game of the weekend, possible game of the year. Certainly the most dramatic. I was at, uh, I went to UFC last night and I was just like, I'm going to watch this game when I get home. But I was kind of checking my phone. And every time I checked my phone, the score was different. What are those games? But, uh, uh, this will be my first question for you. Is this it for the lions?
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Was this their window these two years? Can they get back? Is it ever going to get better than this for them?
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Well, it's all the same question.
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You either came through or you didn't. You were either in this group or this group. And that's just kind of the way we talked about sports before the discourse got smarter. But now... As I get older, I feel like I'm rooting for people not to fall in that bucket, to not be the Karl Malone, Greg Norman, A-Rod, Chris Webber.
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I don't think their defense was why they lost the game. No? I'll just read you some plays. 45 is a lot of points, but you don't think so? Third and one. They're up 7-3 in the Washington 25. They're passing for some reason and Goff gets strip sacked over and over again. Remember the first month of the season when the Lions didn't start out well? Yeah. And they were throwing the ball a ton.
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And we were talking about them in the pod and I was saying, I'm still in on the Lions. I just think they're a running team that for some reason is trying to air it out. I think they need to flip the seesaw and become like a pound the ball running team. They went back to... The old first month of the season lines. Again, they threw the ball over 40 times. Gibbs touched it 20 times total. Yeah.
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He was, every time he touched the ball, it was 10 yards. It barely seemed like he had it. So that play was terrible.
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Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Keep him in the game. He should be in the game on every third and short.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I hate that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You have Goff sailing the pick six. And if you freeze it, his receiver is in the middle of four guys. He's surrounded by a gang of players. It would have had to have been the all-time perfect throw. He sails it, picks six, almost gets concussed. He throws that end of the pick at the end of the second quarter on the post play where the guys open. He throws it to the wrong spot.
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And then the Jamison Williams... That option pass with the receiver, it's the biggest series of the game. It's 38-28. You have to score. You still have the whole fourth quarter, basically. You have to get three or seven. And they put the entire game in the hands of a receiver who never throws. And of course, he makes a dumb decision. It's not that it's like, oh, he shouldn't have thrown it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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you shouldn't put him in the position to throw it. That was a classic Ben Johnson. Just like, look at me. Hey, look at me. Watch these cool plays. It's like, you know what works? Fucking Jameer Gibbs. Just give him the ball.
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And I'm watching Lamar and I'm like, after the first two turnovers, I'm like, God damn, if he loses this game, it's really hard. You're on let down mountain now and it's really hard to get off. Weren't you thinking about that?
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If you give Harrison a giant package, And you park across the street from FedEx. You're like, now cross the street and deliver it. And I want you to... And he fucks it up. Is that your fault or Harrison's? Uh...
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Yeah. Cause it's like, here's Jamison Williams. He's rolling out to the right and the guy's not open. He's not a quarterback. It's like, Oh my God, I can't believe he made a terrible decision and threw the ball. Yeah. But we see this happens every week in football.
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Their defense had two fuck-ups. The McClure and the RPO touchdown. And both guys, it was comical how bad the tackling was. So that was bad. The fourth and two inside the five, they're down three. It's 31, 28. And they have 12 men on the field inexcusable. But for the most part, like I thought Daniels was incredible. And to just say all the lines, defense, the lines came up big a couple of times.
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Like they came up the first quarter. They were really good. The beginning of the third quarter, they stopped him on the first drive to get the ball back. Daniels that like that throw he made to Diami Brown, that 50 yard Russell Wilson moon ball where he's covered by two guys and just catches it in stride on fourth and two, like some of the RPO stuff, like nobody's stopping that.
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I just think if they don't turn the ball over, they outscore the commanders and they win. Daniels was great. They're zero blitzing. Daniels was great. They didn't turn the ball over once.
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The field was a disastrous, but I mean the fourth quarter yardage, the game was once they, once it's 38, 28 and Williams throws that pick, the game's over. I'll say this with Daniels. I said this to house today. Um, and we should have the Daniels house, especially his combo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's just, he was so good in that game and he had a couple of highlight plays, but for the most part, he's just, he's always doing the right thing. He's always calm. He never turns the ball over. Like if you compare him to Lamar today, um, you know, I think it's a real conversation. Is it where he ranks on like what playoff QBs would you trust the most? Cause yeah.
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What he did last week against Tampa, what he did in that Detroit game on the road in a dome where it's super loud and he didn't fuck up once for three hours, that's fucking surreal.
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all together.
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All the guys were pretty... What is it? Flacco, Purdy, and... Sean King. Sanchez? Yeah, Sanchez.
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Really?
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Yeah, Big Ben was the other one. All right. No, I think the comparison to me... I think my homes is the comparison, even though my homes, he had like a gap year, his first year on the chiefs, but you'd think like Daniels was in college for five years. My homes was in college for three and then at the gap year. So they're around the same age.
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And then my homes goes in that first full year as a starter and he's incredible. And he almost beats the paths and he almost beats Brady. I think that's, that's the level it's at. And we saw like when we were kids, like Marino, uh,
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as a rookie he was awesome that first year and then that second year made the Super Bowl but or didn't make the didn't make the yeah he didn't make the second one he made that's when he had like 47 47 touch yeah so but it's on that level already and it's it's a weird one because the Pats
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I love Drake May and I'm fine with how it turned out, but we, it was a big one of, there was two months leading up to that draft last year. It was like, is Washington going to take Drake May or Daniels and who do we want? And every past one, we're all talking about the same thing. And it came down, Daniels was three years older. Well, he was in college for five years. He's going to get hurt.
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He's so, he's so skinny. Yeah. And, you know, he got hurt during the middle of the year. How's someone talking about this today? They kind of threw us off their scent because they played really well for the first like six weeks. He got hurt. And then it was pretty rocky and he was clearly hurt for four or five weeks.
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Then Eckhart got hurt and they didn't really start to become the team they were in the first month. I don't feel like until that Tampa game. right? Or maybe like week 18.
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Or Tampa second and one, they get state, they have a chance to potentially go up for second one, get stuff. Third one, they screw up. It's the snap at the wrong time. All of a sudden they're kicking a field goal and they never got the ball. You know, I'm sure Tampa is like, we should have beaten these guys. Now they're in the fucking NFC title game. This sucks.
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But the last piece with Daniels, I don't want to say, I really wanted to ask you who would you rather have and have Daniels versus all of these veteran quarterbacks we have, but we need to see him win a cold weather game before we have a full feel for, you know, like this at Detroit was a dome. He's going to be going to Philly next week. It's going to be cold.
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The field's going to be, you know, of fucking concrete. He's going to have this big defensive line. And if like he's, if he's as good as he was in Detroit in that scenario, I don't know what the ceiling is at that point.
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Yeah. it's why it was a good hire, even though we all kind of were like, Oh my God, Dan, really Dan Quinn. You could add Ben Johnson, but right. I, when somebody's had real success, the first time they were a coach where you can go back and watch that Superbowl and, um, 13 plays in a row have to go well for the Pats for the Falcons not to win the Superbowl.
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Yeah. Yeah. Some of it was his fault, but, but he's clearly like a good coach. He was great for you on Dallas.
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So it's, it's funny how it works out. It's, I mean, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm on some Pats threads where Washington has now become the North Star for the Pats. Where it's like, they sucked last year, they got the second pick, they had nothing. They get the franchise QB, they get a good coach, they get a good coaching staff, they make some smart signings, they have a good draft.
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Some of the guys that were already on the team, they coached up so that they're actually better assets than were a year ago. They had an easy schedule. all these things where it's like, why can't that be the Pats? So thank you, Washington. You've given us hope here with the... Football's great. New England, yeah. You never know.
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Well, we talk every year about the circle of teams... that have a chance to win the super bowl. And then it comes down to these goofy plays like Mark Andrews dropping the two point like Tampa, not getting a first down when it's second to one. And for the, like, what level are you at? How can, how close can you be to winning a super bowl? I did not have Washington in the circle.
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Even heading into this Detroit game, I thought the line was too high. I never would have played Detroit nine and a half. I kind of like some of the alternate Washington lines. Like they were plus three and a half. They're plus one 90. And yet their defense seemed like it was such an overmatch. In that Lions game, I couldn't figure out how their defense was going to stop them.
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Well, he was the reason they could never get in front in the first place. He had... Yeah. He sailed the pick... They score on the first drive. Buffalo comes back and scores. Baltimore has the ball again. They just look like they're in control. The running game hasn't even gotten going yet. And then he sails a pick 20 yards over somebody's head to the safety.
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And the answer was Jared Goff has to completely suck. Yeah. That was the one factor I didn't factor in. It's like, what if Jared Goff is just terrible? And he was.
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Right. What if they have an option pass with their receiver on their biggest drive of the game? Yeah. So... And then we also had the Teddy Bridgewater has come into the game moment, which was pretty exciting. Teddy Bridgewater was coaching high school and all of a sudden it seems like Goff's concussed and anyone who had the Lions in a tease is like, oh my God, I can't even imagine.
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I can't imagine what that game was like. Like talk about the extremes of like, if you're a Lions fan, And you're like, you're in there with the Bills and the Vikings and all these tortured franchises, but you also don't really have any terrible playoff losses because you've just been terrible. You know what I mean? I have losses to point to.
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And now you have one of the worst losses we've had this decade where you can go back and just drive yourself crazy with 20 plays.
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Well, think about it. They might lose both their coordinators. I know. They're never going to be... You can never trust Goff in the same way again. I don't think.
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But it wasn't the case. Really tough loss. Tough loss for us. We had Lions Super Bowl bets that I somehow didn't properly hedge with Washington. You know what happened?
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We were duty for kicking the teeth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So if those teams play 10 times, how many times do the commanders win? Would you say three?
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Maybe four?
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Because I watched the whole game this morning knowing what happened. And I thought it was going to be way more one sided toward Washington. And I'm watching and I'm like, the fuck did the Lions lose this game? Every time they give the ball to Gibbs, he rushes for 12 yards or it's like a 15 yard screen pass. It's like, what what happened in this game?
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And they come back from commercial and Romo's saying how, this is Matt Milano. He forced that pressure. And I'm watching, I'm like, I don't think so. I think Lamar just like gacked the play and just sailed the play. And then later that fumble he had when they're driving and it was a bad snap, picks it up and ends up getting stripped. But that was like, you know, that was like a Mac Jones fumble.
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Dana's was great. And by the way, they hit those fourth downs. You feel like every fourth and two, fourth and three, that's the situation where I always feel like they're going to get it. There's other teams. Yeah.
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Sorry. Yeah, his fingers are embedded. Jada Daniels, we have a lot of Washington fans in our life. This is just one of the most unbelievable turnarounds I can remember. We had, even when this happened to the Pats fans with Brady, We were still immersed in that whole Brady or Bledsoe. Who's the starter?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And then we had this crazy, you know, Cinderella run to the Super Bowl, which you lost a lot of money on. Right. And even at the end, we were like, okay, Brady, I guess. Like, he's good. But this Jaden Daniels thing, this is... Like if you're just talking about the elite QBs that you feel the best about, he just has to be in the first sentence now with all these other guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's one of the best rookie years I can remember.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He's on that Mahomes 2018 level of like, this guy's here now. He's gonna be here for 20 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I know, but we were there for the RG3 thing. It was really fun to watch. Yeah. This is different. First of all, this guy's pulling out huge wins. He's this double threat. He's incredibly accurate. I have a lot of regrets. I really wish... I know we say this after the fact, but I really wish I had put more thought into the nobody believes in us part with Washington.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Because you could feel it in the game and especially the quotes after. That team's got a chip on its shoulder. I don't know. I felt like... Looking back, a team that has a shitty defense or a mediocre defense, whatever you want to call the Lions defense, favored by a big spread against a team that's clearly good offensively, that completes a lot of passes and can run the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm never doing that again. I'm taking the underdog the next time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm going to add that to the playoff manifesto. It's like bad defense, team that completes 70% of its passes and doesn't turn the ball over. The other thing that happened, which I don't know if that's going to get momentum this week or not, but Kingsbury, the Washington OC, grew up in Texas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Is it like, could that be the Cowboys coach? And when you watch what he's done with Daniels and with Washington's offense, is that a better option than some of the options I've seen, which you showed me? Yes, it's a better, of course. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's a little strange. It went awful for him in Arizona. And there's a chance it went awful because maybe there was stuff. Maybe it was a weird organization, weird quarterback. Kyler's tough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
That was like a Dorian Thompson Robinson fumble. That's like, these are the shitty quarterbacks we watched during the season. They make stupid plays like that. You're not supposed to make a play like that in this game. when it's like the best quarterback in the league versus the best quarterback in the league. Neither guy is Patrick Mahomes, but it was this big showdown and just two crappy plays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I can't really 100% hang on him for that. All right, we're going to take one more break for the pod and we're going to do Guess the Lines. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Winning is a great feeling, but let's be honest, it's even better with a prize like Michelob Ultra Superior Light Beer. And that's exactly what you'll get with Play You for an Ultra on DoorDash.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So before we do Guess the Lines, we were all together. Yeah. We went to Shakey's today. The original Shakey's we used to go to, Shakey's Pizza, which we've joked about for years and years in this pod, was on Santa Monica. in a not awesome area of Hollywood. And we used to go there and it was pretty grim. Well, that's gone. It did not survive COVID. There's a chance it could have started COVID.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
We're not sure. It either started in Wuhan or at Shakey's in Santa Monica. So we had to go to Shakey's on Sunset Boulevard past the 10, past where Netflix is, a little down further going toward... you know, that the Scientology place. And, uh, and we all went and it was like a really nice time. They had a lot of TVs and it was pretty clean and it wasn't the shakies I was accustomed to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
We'll post on Instagram. We took a Shakey's team photo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And then just died in Landman. It felt like we had to go pay our respects to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And it just felt like the whole game was off after that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Is that a spoiler? Kyle, is that... Did I just spoil Landman? It came out a week ago. What is this, on Sunday? How long do I have to wait? It was a week ago. Kyle? At least eight days, it turns out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I think you could call it a spoiler. I think you could definitely call it a spoiler. Thank you, Kyle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Can we find out in the chat? Do people... Are they in the YouTube chat? Do they...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm going on a YouTube chat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Let him find out if this is a spoiler. Yes. Tom says, yes, that is a spoiler. One week is not enough. Matt Smith says, massive spoiler. Two weeks is the window. Did we decide that? Was that one of President Biden's last verdicts before he fell into this event?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
God damn. I guess I'd spoiled. Sorry. YouTube guys are great. My bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
My bad, everybody. I just Jared Goff the podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Did he die at Shanky's? What happened? Did he eat something bad? Mojo potatoes? I wasn't positive he died, which means that they could always bring him back next season. All right. Good. Ham seemed in good spirits, though. I think he had a good time. It's fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
There was a moment where it felt like an L.A. sports bar. There were people rooting for the Rams. It's true. There was a basketball game on on one side. I was like, all right, Shakey's. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I walked to and from to Shakey's and a couple of interesting moments in the way. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah. I was watching, I did this yesterday too. I was walking, watching the game on YouTube TV. which I love YouTube TV. I'm so mad I didn't have it, but I'm not just saying that because we've done stuff with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
But I was thinking, because eventually I'm going to die by getting hit by a car in LA somewhere when I'm walking, because I'm going to be looking at my phone and somebody's just going to pancake me. But it will probably 50% chance it's during a football game that I'm watching on my phone and I'm just walking across the street. And it's like, what happened to Bill? Yeah, that was it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It finally happened. It's either that or me not wearing a seatbelt somewhere are going to be the two ways I go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I got to say, every time Collinsworth talked, I was walking faster. Collinsworth was giving me energy. It was like a Gatorade. Interesting. He was having a great time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I didn't walk during the Brady thing. But yeah, because that was the... Going to UFC yesterday, which I want to talk about after we do Guess the Lions. Guess the Lions. So let's set up the drama for Guess the Lions. You haven't beaten me since 1932, right before World War II. Right. Before that. Yeah. You are up one week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So I can still win. I have to win this week and I have to hit the Super Bowl and beat you both weeks basically to win. You could clinch. You could beat me this week. And I honestly don't remember the last time you've won.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
No, I forgot to make a guess for the other one. I have the Eagles-Washington. All right. So that's your old game. That's three Eastern. Three Eastern. Fox. Right? Yep. All right, so I'll just give you my thought process. It's in Philadelphia. Philadelphia was favored by six and a half against the Rams. Now they're playing Washington, a team that's done pretty well against them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I think the line has to be less than six and a half. And I'm going to say Eagles by five. Vegas zone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's five and a half right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So now you've basically clinched at least a tie for the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Better schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
A sadder last 10 years. I'll tell you this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Kansas City hosting the Buffalo Bills. Mm-hmm. I thought about putting this in the Tic Tac Zone and I'm not going to. I'm going to say Chiefs by two and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Is it two and a half right now? Now I'm looking. Hold on. It's one and a half. I don't trust you. I don't trust you. I'm looking right now. Go ahead. America's number one sportsbook.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
One and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Wow. So, Washington to 11 and a half. Chiefs to plus four and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah. I'm just spitballing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Why do we have to tease it? We can pick two winners.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I felt that way about the Ravens. It turned out it wasn't a winner. It was a big L loser. Well, congratulations. Thanks, buddy. Nobody's happier for you than Dave Jacoby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I would think so. I think that's a fair place to start. Is this President Trump has weighed in on this? Our new president started tomorrow. Can that be one of his first rulings? Is the spoiler alert ruling?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's not doing well. What? It's not? It's going badly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Thanks. It's in bad shape. This edition of Parent Corner is brought to you by Hookah and Bondi9, their new daily trainer. So you go first and then I'll go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm sort of scared for a second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I know. I thought they were a better team. You did. That's a great game. I mean, that's such a great win for Buffalo. Three turnovers to none. Baltimore misses both two-point conversions. Two plays that I didn't like, right? The first one felt a little rushed. Neither one of them was just, we're going to ram the ball down your throats and score. The second one, you're rolling Lamar out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yes. I watched you during Jimmy's wedding. You tried to shove Dixon into the wedding cake and knock over a $25,000 wedding cake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
We've told that story before. I don't think people... Dixon, if he was almost like... I barely tried. He was like, no, you tried. It was like a Jedi mind trick. He was Jaden Daniels on the RPO, like just reading the defense. He saw you out of the corner of his eye and he jumped out of the way and...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah, he would have flapped right into the cake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
This feels early. What's going on in Manhattan beach? Oh, I don't know. Is that early?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Oh, just, I remember I was reading a Judy Blume book when I was a kid. Remember Judy Blume? Yeah, sure. And there was a wet dream reference in the book and my dad was driving and And I was reading the book and the pastor said, I was like, dad, what's a wet dream? Like, I didn't know. And he was like, I was like steering, coming traffic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I remember like eighth grade was when, uh, when that dialogue started.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
This YouTube chat's kind of fun. Uh, yeah. That apparent, somebody said it's called embarrassing the children. One Oh one. Um, uh, my parent corner, I took, I took Ben to UFC last night and, um, it was at the Intuit dome. where the Clippers play, which is my favorite arena. I, I sound like I'm the show. Oh, I loved it the whole time. No, I'm in. Oh, I'm in. I love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It felt like the entire defense was going. He did have Andrews open, but that's not an easy play. It's 10 degrees outside. It's freezing. He's already fumbled a play before. He's falling backwards. We've seen guys drop that. It wasn't like an absolute, you know, he should have caught it, but it wasn't a layup. Also, his ass was hanging out too, kind of. It really was. He's almost naked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Um, and, uh, running a Corolla and Corolla is all excited. Um, And I'm with Ben and see Corolla and Corolla's like, I got a special guest. It is a special guest. You're going to be surprised. I'm like, is it Joe Biden? He's like, not as high as Joe Biden, but high, almost as high. I'm like, all right. And it was Kevin Costner. Wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So we're in this row and Corolla is sitting between Kevin Costner and Mel Gibson. And then a couple of seats down is Anthony Kiedis, the Red Hot Chili Peppers lead singer. And sitting next to him is my son, Ben. Cause we were in this row of seats and he's just like talking to the red hot chili peppers guy watching UFC. And it's like the greatest, greatest night of his life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Like he's been waiting for this UFC card forever. And I was like, this is pretty cool. Like I'm glad I'm, you know, we, we spend a lot of time together, obviously, but I was like, I'm glad we could do this. And he's really pumped. It's nice. So just when I think it had, we've peaked Pereira's there, uh, Uh, like our favorite guy sitting over to the left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So now he's like staring him down and he's like, how do we get the picture? How do we, like, we're just trying to figure out the prayer picture, but he's sitting and there's like a barrier in front of him. There's people. And now I'm like, what happens if we go over? Do we do like get Ben in the selfie? Like, like, how do we do it? And also the guy doesn't speak English.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
There's no way he knows who I am. Like, And ended up bailing on it and not being able to do it. But like for the last two hours, just trying to figure out, can we get the prayer picture? So then we found out after that Frank Ocean was there. who is like one of Ben's favorite artists who never leaves his house. He's like a recluse. And it was like, he was there too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So Ben's like, maybe it's not true because he saw it on like freaking Snapchat or whatever. So we're leaving after and we're in the bottom where all the cars are and O'Malley's coming out and he's dressed like a crazy person in a good way. Ben's like, this is it. We got to get. And so we get the O'Malley picture. So it was a level B. It was great. It was one of the best pictures he's gotten.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
But we didn't get Pereira. How should we have attacked the Pereira picture, in your opinion? Well, how far away was he? He was like, we were, we were on one thing. So he was like probably 90. We were sitting at six o'clock. He was at nine o'clock basically.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He had a huge guy next to him, like huge scary guy next to him. And he was really into it because Hill and Uri were fighting. So he was like locked in like a motherfucker for that fight. Like, cause he's beaten both of those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Well, then he came over to take a picture with Mel. So that was another thing. So he was like 15 feet away, but there was like 10. So we just couldn't pull it off. But that was the single most exciting celebrity moment. that I've seen Ben from an excitement standpoint. Really? That we've been in the same room with. And we've, you know, we went to a lot of cool wrestling events.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
You were with us for a couple of months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
We had Nikki Bella twerking. Eight feet from him. Two feet from us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
UFC is a 10 right now. Right. Wrestling was a 10 when he was like from age six to age 10. Yeah. And now it's like a five UFC is like a full complete 10. Yeah. But the funny thing with Pereira, cause part of it was, you know, if it's like an actor, right. If it was like whoever you'd be like, all right, we go over like, you know, they'll, they'll do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
But Pereira is just as intimidating when you're just watching him just exist. Yeah. Yeah. As he is when he's in the ring. Like he he was just motionless staring at the two guys like and he doesn't move. It's like watching Michael Myers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So it's not like the number one guy. You just want to be like, hey, buddy, can I get a picture? Because it looks like he's just about to kill somebody at all times. I was riveted by him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I know it's just, Pereira's locked in. The two best fights were Yuri and Hill. That was just a savage. Light heavyweight is such a great weight class. The guys just beat the shit out of each other. Every punch or kick seems like it could end it. And then Rob came out and just, from the moment he came out, he stole the show. He had the crowd.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And the crowd was, for at least a couple of the matches, incredibly loud and really into it. They were in with Murab. They were just living and dying with every time he did that. It was great. I had a great time. The main event sucked, but that wasn't their fault. Well, they had to move it around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Zero punts. Three turnovers. They missed two two-points. And, uh, and yet they, it felt like if it got to overtime, I thought they were going to win. And I thought they did a good job against Buffalo in the second half too. Like, you know, Alan had a chance to put the game away in that last drive when they're up. What was that? They were up five. Right. And they ran that same QB draw.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It was like you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Oh, you did that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Adam, he came over a few times and he was progressively less sober each time and having a great time. One of the funny things about UFC is after the fight, a guy loses everything. You know, in the crowd, they'll, they'll cheer one guy or the other guy, but then they lose and they'll, sometimes they'll interview the loser and the crowd are still like booing the guy. It's bad enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
The guy just lost. Like he's like reevaluating his career and it's like, yeah, let's bring him in. And they're fucking booing him. Everyone becomes an Eagles fan all of a sudden. Yeah. It's really, it's UFC is great. It's like one of the best in person things. The crowd's hilarious. Everything about it's really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
They properly did the whole, you know, they paid tribute and all that stuff. All right. The Bondi 9 delivers peak plushness for everyday miles, overhauled from top to bottom. They've increased the stack height and added a new premium foam midsole to deliver that soft, resilient ride that's become synonymous with the Bondi. Everybody Bondi. Visit HOKA.com to learn more about the Bondi 9.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Multiple people texted me today that he slowed down on pass rush.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He kind of paused between the two words. Yeah, so you think somebody talked to him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah. Well, that's it for the podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
That's it. Next time I talk to you, yeah, guess the lines. We're just going to play it out of pride, I guess. We'll still do it. It'll be like the Pro Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's funny you're wearing the Mets hat. Yeah, you don't have to sweat out the Super Bowl, the Cowboys, and neither of us have to sweat out baseball because the Dodgers are just, I guess, going to win the next five World Series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah, the 90s, early 2000s. The Giambi, Kevin Brown, and Randy Johnson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Like a lefty reliever from Dubai who becomes the most popular person in Dubai.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Well, the other thing we thought of was how the Seattle Mariners really missed this because they had Ichiro. They were way ahead of the game. They knew how much this stuff's worth. And they should have just been like, we're the Japanese-American team. They screwed up. Everyone in that country will root for the Mariners.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It was like when I played Madden against Ben and he's just running the same play. And I'm like, I, by the fourth card, I'm like, oh, you're going to run the play where you do this and just put two guys there. He ran the QB draw seven times. And they finally were ready for it. They had to kick the field goal and it felt like they just left the door open a tiny bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
They will associate their best guys with us and will just overpay for every guy. And instead, they just gave that to the Dodgers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
They had it. Each row was huge. Yeah. Well, anyway, so we're not going to have to care about baseball. I'm on the fence. I might drop out of league of dorks. No, I've been talking about it. Yeah. It's too hard. It's just too old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
No, it's just that we haven't won in a few years. It makes me feel bad about myself. I really want to reevaluate some of my fantasy league stuff. I'm in too many fantasy football leagues.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Guillotine was good. I think we have to figure out our version of that. Have you gotten sad about no football yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
The Masters. We're going to the Masters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
If FanDuel comes through, we're going to the Masters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I think they will. Well, the thing we're having, we have a very special guest coming with us this year, potentially. Is it Kevin Costner? No, it's going to be James Babydoll Dixon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He always clears it with the waifu. he won't just say yes. He'll say, it's a, it's a, it's a hesitant. Yes. I will let you know for sure tonight because he's, he's, and he's very happily married. I think this is one of the reasons he never makes decisions where I'm going away for a week without making it a collaborative effort. It's something to aspire to, or you can just call him a giant wuss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Like, I don't know which side you want to be on that, but.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's all for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Well, it's watching him and the masters on Augusta without a cell phone. is going to single-handedly bring me out of the funk of that we started out here in January, where it just seems like this is going to be the worst year ever. But now it's giving me hope and strength. Because you have to give your cell phone at the front, but I know he's going to bring three cell phones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Plus there was a great, I mean, it was a great weekend for weird gambling shit. Baltimore minus one and a half is lingering the whole time. The moment they missed the two point, it's like, of course they're going to win 25, 24.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
He'll have one in his shoe. He'll have almost like when people in prison movies put a shank in their shoe. He'll have an iPhone in his shoe somehow. There's no way he's not going to have a phone for eight hours.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So what would he. So if he does check the phone, but he'll have a pack of cigarettes. Yeah. That was my next question for you. One pack or two. He'll just have one, right? They let you do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Outdoors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
All right. Yeah. Nephi Kyle. He smoked. He smoked in the Masters. He was very excitedly. He loved it. Yeah, because you're not holding a phone. I might start smoking too. There's so many great possible variables. It's really giving me strength. Like him getting super golf analyst-y as we watch guys in the sixth hole and him repeatedly telling us how hard the shot is and doing all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
It's going to be great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
We're talking like 10, 12 years ago. Yeah, exactly. So he's going to have to demand he stays in a house that has a lock on the bedroom door that he's in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Because otherwise, horrible things are going to probably happen to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Oh, man. All right. Cuz, congrats on the Guest Alliance title this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Good job by you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle and Sarudin Gahal for producing. Remember, you can watch all the stuff we do on this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And we'll also be, I think, starting in February, officially, we'll be a video podcast on Spotify. So Only a couple weeks left until that happens. New Rewatchables, Rewatchables mailbag going Monday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So stay tuned for that. That will also be on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. And as for the schedule for this podcast, probably not a podcast on Tuesday night, but definitely two more podcasts over the course of the week. So that's the schedule. You will hear from me at some point midweek. Stay safe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
On the way so I never said I don't have a few years with him On the way so I never said
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And then Jake Elliott in the game before, just a random missed PAT out of nowhere. Now they're up 13 instead of 14. They're favored by six and a half. It's like, of course the Rams are going to score. This is preordained now. And then the Casey one was the worst one. The absolute worst.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or
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Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Allen, 127 yards passing. Cook, 67 yards. Allen was 10 for 20 rushing. Shakir was their best receiver at 67 yards. The next guy had 15. And they won. Ravens finished with 416 yards. Buffalo, 273. And they won. But that's the thing. I lost the Lions because of the big tease. I had the Lions with the other three favorites. I had a bet today with the Chiefs. I had the Chiefs and the Eagles combined.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I had the Eagles and Ravens. So I scrambled back in real life a little. But the two games that I had wrong were the Lions and the Ravens. I'm not even positive I had them wrong because of just what you said. It's like... Turnovers. Okay. The one that we always talk about, like nine out of 10 times, you can kind of have a feel for a football game. And then that 10th time is the wonk game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
This felt, this game felt wonky, but that's the thing. It's 12 degrees and it's in Buffalo. And that's why so many people pick Buffalo. It's like Josh Allen home. They're used to this weather. And that was it. But man, I thought, I thought the Ravens were the best team in the league. I really did. I thought they were the best. I felt no one was picking Buffalo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
They're going home before round three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
That was huge. And getting the ball at the top of the third quarter. Yeah, Henry and Hill combined were 22 for 134. Lamar was six for 39, just for rushing. But they were doing most of the stuff they wanted to do on offense. The first Lamar pick was egregious. The fumble was stupid. And then the Andrews fumble, they were driving. It felt like, you know, it felt like they had at least...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new Rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did a pretty expansive mailbag. It's really fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I should have written this down, but I felt like they had at least four 25-yard pass plays. They had at least, I'm going to say, four or five runs of 10 to 20 yards between Hill and Henry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I'm like, holy shit, we're the Bills. We never win games like this. This is a fucking miracle. Usually, if you bring in the Buffalo Bills history, it's Andrews fumbles that two-point, but then he holds on to it. OT, coin flip. Baltimore wins it. They go down. They win the game. You need a missed field goal now for Buffalo. Yeah. They win an OT. It's like, oh, my God.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I mean, when Tyler Bass hit that long field goal, even then, I was like, oh, that's unusual for Buffalo. So maybe the vibes are shifting for them. This was your Super Bowl pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So they had that first great TD drive. They had the pick. They had the fumble. They had the first and goal from the two when they just for whatever reason just went backwards and ended up getting a field goal instead of a touchdown. They had that third and 12 from Buffalo 29 in the third quarter when they were down 11. And they just get a delay a game. Now it's third and 17. They get five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
They kick a field goal instead. But it was a lot of like little Raven stuff that usually if they lose a game like this, it's the stuff that happens. It's the reason they had the five losses during this season when you could look at all five and be like, oh, I'm not sure they should have lost that game. But that's who they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
I felt like with the two tight ends, with the way they could run the ball and with the way Lamar could just kind of take off and scramble, they seemed kind of unstoppable and they could just kind of never keep it going for more than five minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Even like that big kick return at the end, they get it to the 35, 33. Holding penalty. Now they're starting at the 12th. Right. You know, but I don't know. Obviously, we've never played football at the highest possible level in 12 degree weather. Speak for yourself. I don't know. I don't know how to factor that in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
Yeah, I even thought Chiefs-Texans was pretty good. So the Ravens heading into this game since 2018, including the playoffs, were 0-9 when they were trailing by 10-plus points at halftime. And now they're 0-10. And the only other team that is winless during that span is the Oakland-LA-Vegas Raiders, 0-26. Wow. So no comebacks, 10-plus. And I guess that's the Lamar era, right? 2018 on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
And yet I thought they were going to win. And I felt like it was going to happen. And especially when he made that improv play on the final drive to Wallace, when he ran out, bought some time, hit him over the middle. I was like, okay, Lamar, here we go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal
So stay tuned for that. You'll be able to watch it on Ringer Movies. By the way, we announced that the Bill Simmons Podcast is going to be live in Austin, Texas on Wednesday, February 19th at the Paramount Theater. Tickets are on sale at theringer.com slash events. And I'm not sure who my special guest is, but there's some really good options. So stay tuned because it's going to be fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I think it'll be a good series. I think OKC will win. But imagine saying that six weeks ago about Golden State. They looked like they were dead.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It was a nine episode series and we'll be dropping episodes, I think twice a week over the course of the next month, especially relevant now that OKC is the favorite to win the NBA title. So anyway, you can check that out. And then last thing, Fandle Sportsbook doing player performance doubles, two leg parlays on Tuesdays, player prop combined with a team to win. And we're doing a ringer PBT
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
No, it's just, I think the thing that I've noticed already with Butler, I think it's so hard to just kind of move into that Golden State system and figure out how to play with Steph the right ways. And Butler's already figured it out. He's like, oh, I got the ball in the corner, but now I see Steph floating around behind me. I'm going to screen my guy and give back to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Like he's already, it feels like he's played like a hundred games with them, you know? And the only reason I mentioned the OKC thing, and I think OKC is the best team in the league. I just feel like they've had, I believe in the model of we've played this team really well over the years. Cause I feel the same way about Milwaukee and Cleveland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Cleveland's better than Milwaukee, but Milwaukee's played good games against them. I've watched some of them, like their battles. They have a real issue with Giannis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't love the Durant-Shangoon mix. I don't like them as a combo because I can't play any of their real tall guys who can protect the rim with those two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I know. It's weird. And their record is kind of... They've hung around. I think we all thought they were going to dip. Booker makes way more sense to me with Houston than Durant does. Booker is exactly what they need. That's one of those. If you just replace Jalen Green with Booker, you'd be like, holy shit, okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But 06, remember, you remember this. Nobody else does. Pierce was awesome that one year when they went like 35 and 47. Pierce was incredible. He was like carrying, there was like nobody. So the question is, is he more Paul Pierce or is he more Ray Allen?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
a profit boost token on any player performance bet placed on Tuesday games. You get one choice. I'm going to tweet out my picks on Tuesday. We've got some good games. Milwaukee Golden State on Tuesday, Cleveland and the Clippers. Stay tuned for my picks. Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The pace was way slower back then. Everybody was, you know, 27 a game back then was like 32 now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Pierce is the right comparison. You're right. Cause Pierce was a little better than Ray Allen as a two way guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Ishby did that in the interview. He talked about it. Everyone wants to blow it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The Celtics had a bunch of assets and they had at least cap space coming down the road and moves to make in the last three years of that decade. And I think the difference with the Suns is what are the moves? Because even if you trade Durant, you got to get contracts back I don't even think they're allowed to take two guys back for him because they're so far over the apron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
So you almost have to take one guy back or trade him to a team that could take on the cap space. You got to get assets back, but then you got to turn those assets into more booker help. You aren't able to sign anybody in free agency and you have no picks. Like, the Celtics that year, they had Al Jefferson, and they had Rondo, and, you know, they had Gerald Green, who weirdly had value.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They had Ryan Gomes. They had first-round picks to trade. Like, the Phoenix doesn't have any of that. I would be... If I was a Suns fan, I'd be so bummed out. Because I don't think there's anything worse than being unwatchable, but also having no hope for the next couple years. And I don't see how you have hope if you're them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You keep them at that point, at least for another year. And you try to make the best of rant deal you can. And yeah, you fire everybody who told you you shouldn't trade for Bradley Beal with a no trade clause. I think whoever's left in the building who was like, I do it. They have to go. You just have to clear, clear the deck.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
This Tuesday coming up, Priscilla and I are going to talk a lot of NBA stuff. We are just disgusted with the Suns. Intrigued by the Cavs. OKC, where are they going? We have a lot of fun little gimmicks for you. We'll talk about season number two. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are taping this. It is 4 o'clock on a Sunday afternoon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Cause that's like, we did the worst contracts draft and was took Bradley Beal first. And he was right to trade for that. When you have no, to trade for a contract with no outs. is the most irresponsible thing you can do as a franchise. And then the Embiid contract's probably second. Well, I don't know what they do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And it's one of the most shocking things I can remember in recent NBA history because we thought Phoenix was going to be good. Like legit good. And they're the opposite. They're awful. We'll take a break. I have a couple more things to throw you related to this. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
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We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA finals. One of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level, but all the historical legacy stuff. It's my favorite. You've heard me talk about it on the podcast many times. Speaking of finals, Michelob Ultra has given me the chance
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residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up. Ends on May 5th, 2025. See official rules at McGlobaltric.com slash rules for price and detail. Message and data rates may apply void where prohibited. All right. So I mentioned the, I just don't have an answer with the Suns. I got really mad about the Austin Reeves thing over the weekend with the Spurs. And I almost did a whole tweet thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I was like, I think I've already tweeted about this. I went back and saw what they used their cap for that summer. It was Chetty Osmond and Cam Payne. And they just could have had Reeves. I don't think they ever made, the story I heard was that Reeves and his camp was waiting for an offer, waiting for an offer. And the Spurs were like, we're going to get one, we're going to get one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And then the Lakers smartly were like, you got to tell us by tonight if you're doing this. And the Spurs were just too late, never did it. And then after the fact, we're like, yeah, you know, we're a year away. But I was just, it made me so mad thinking two Texas teams have rebuilt the Lakers and The Mavericks and the Spurs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The Lakers are just headed toward the cliff with old LeBron and AD hitting his mid-30s and no real ability to rebuild. And now they're going to be really good for the next 10 years. And it's because of these two dumbass Texas teams. It makes me so mad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I'll do it every three weeks. He's Reeves is legitimately good. Like could Reeves make the all-star team? I think he could not this year, but like in the next three years, could he be an all-star? Yeah, I think he could. Is he as good as like Jeff Hornacek was? I think he is like Reeves is. I want to do a third banana list with you and see where he ranks in the third bananas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I just, I just can't believe we were talking that whole season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
How? I don't, that's where, you know, and the Spurs have done good stuff over the years. Like they nailed the Castle pick last year. No, I mean, in recent times, they nailed the Castle pick. Right. I'm just saying the Spurs track record's been pretty good. Spurs track record's good. I'm talking recently. Maybe not as good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I think Reeves is a miss. It's a huge miss. They had the cap space. Trade him. He's an asset. Or sign him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. So that's one. Another one I don't have an answer for. That almost sounded like cowherd right there. Thank you. Still don't have a real answer for why the Embed extension happened. And here's another one you and I have talked about for a while. And there's still some buck passing going on with it. And nobody's really owned it yet. I've heard various stories about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I've gotten some intel on it. Can you share? Give me what you've heard. He means a lot to Philly. It's the right thing to do. If his body breaks down, we'll be able to cover it with insurance anyway. It'll be a huge distraction if we don't do this. We should just do it. And odds are he's going to be healthy. Was the case.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They make every decision that's even 10% as important as this. They're making the decision. It's ridiculous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Good news. No, it's so true. Well, and the owner can become the boogeyman sometimes when you talk to teams where if it was a draft pick that you're like, wow. And the owner really pushed for that. So that's kind of, we shouldn't listen to him on that. So you never know what's real and not real.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
There's some of that stuff too. We know the teams. I don't want to list them because I don't want to betray anybody. But there's some teams where they use owners as a boogeyman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
All the March Madness stuff just came out. Our long national nightmare is over. Another Phoenix Suns nationally televised game is behind us. How much longer, Rosillo? Here's the case for the season being too long. We don't have to go through the death march of the last 20 Suns games, among other things. But God, can't they move stuff around? Can't they flex? What can they do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Josh has run companies. He owns two professional sports teams that are very expensive and have a lot of employees. He's not just passing off that decision to somebody else. This is not a defense of Daryl because I'm sure Daryl really wanted to do it too. But to make it seem like you had to be talked into it, but deep down you knew it was a bad idea. Like, get the fuck out of here. Stop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I try to be fair too. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And by the way, the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit the ringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, going to talk a lot of basketball, and somehow we're barely going to talk about March Madness. I'm sorry. We love the NBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, you have two more years for him anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Take a year. Here's another one. I just don't have an answer for it. Oh, this is a good one. Is Denver good? Ooh, now you're cooking. Are they good? Like if they lost 4-1 in round one, would you be like, I can't believe it. There were no signs at all. If they made the Western finals, would you be like, I can't believe they made the Western finals. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
To me, they are like, I don't know what to expect. They're like one of those boxers that they could knock somebody out. They could get knocked out. It could be, or they're almost like a UFC fighter. I don't know what UFC fighter that would be like. Gaethje. Gaethje might just get fucking cold cocked. Rock cold? He might have an awesome fight today. I watched a lot of the Laker game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I watched the fourth quarter of the Washington game last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
No, but I watched almost that entire Laker game. when they didn't have Luka and they didn't have LeBron. And they're just hanging with Reeves and Connect. That's what made me so mad about Reeves on Friday night. And Denver was trying and they were home and they needed the game. And they're barely hanging on against this like G League Laker team with Reeves. And I was just like, what the fuck?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Like to me, we talked a week ago about the MVP of the Oak Edge. Like it's, I don't know what scenario would happen for SGA not to win the MVP at this point after the week he had. But is Denver good?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They hate having you watch them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They hate watching each other as they play basketball together. It's a pretty rare situation of a team that seems reasonably talented on paper that we have these teams that bring the best out of each other. And this team just brings the worst out of each other for whatever reason. I have no answer for it. I was going to have a little segment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Like coming out of the gate, you would think you have between 52 and 56 points per game from two guys. You should be in every game at that point, no matter how bad your defense is, whatever you're missing. You should at least be hanging around. They're down 10, 15, 20. Nobody seems to care. I was going to do a little segment later, but we can do it now called, I just don't have the answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Plus, you can put Brunson on the side for some of these plays, and he's a 45% three-point shooter. You don't need to... I just think when you're in a playoff series, if you're running offense the way the Knicks run offense, I think over the course of two weeks, it gets easier and easier to at least get used to it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And the more wrinkles they have, I think they're a really interesting offensive team, and I know some of the stats are already pretty good for them. My last one. How hurt do you actually think LeBron is?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The time the injury happened at the end of the Celtic game and they had already lost. I just... The stuff in the state championship game, like him jumping around on the sidelines. By the way, smart for him to rest up and get his shit together for the playoff run. But, you know, we were talking about this in these... Or at least the media was in these grave terms. LeBron, I...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
This might be the rest of the year. I think he's fine. And I think the Lakers have to be taken seriously and I'm not going to waver from that point. Like they showed him shooting today. I think he's fine. Would be my takeaway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I didn't realize until the state championship. I think he's fine. I'm not worried about it. Okay. Okay. One thing I was thinking about with the Cavs, and then we'll take a break.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I watched the entire game. I'm sure you watched a bunch of it, too. I thought it was a bad loss for Cleveland because I was excited for their streak, and I really wanted them to win because I was like, I love streaks. Once we get over 16, I'm in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I didn't bet on them. I just love streaks. And there was some stuff in there that I just am filing away in the back of my head because I think they're really good. I still think they're the favorite in the East, but there's a Hunter shot at the end of the game in the corner, right? Not a lot of huge. I'm going to say DeAndre Hunter hasn't been in a lot of huge games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And if I had like a son's friend who was like, what do you think's wrong with this team? And I was like, I honestly don't know. I don't know why it's even worse than it was last year when it was like, oh, it's Vogel's fault. Maybe it's Nurkic's fault. Well, they traded Nurkic. It's still bad. I don't understand it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The game started to feel a little big, right? The streak's on the line. They go to him. He's wide open the corner. It hits the side of the backboard. And I was like, oh, okay. Are you saying Hunter lacks seasoning? Just saying. You can go into these playoffs and be 68 and 14, but they have a bunch of guys who have never really been in these massive games. Like Mitchell has.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Strews has been in a couple of big games. But there's some guys that have been. And sometimes when the series or the game isn't working out the way you think it is, and all of a sudden you're in the corner and you're like, oh, shit, I got to make this. You haven't been in that spot. I don't know. I just filed it away. Do you file anything away from that game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You're just like, hey, we didn't hit threes. That's why we lost. Let's move on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It's definitely one of the higher percentages of two seconds left on the shot clock, fall away 20 footer with the hand in your face. They've got to be in the top three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Well, I did a lot of Cleveland work this morning thinking that they were going to win this game and we would lead with the streak. Here's the one thing I can't figure out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I get it. Guys, teams miss stuff all the time. The question for me is what's your thing if you're going to win the title? right? I went back, I went through the last 10 years, like last year, the Celtics, what was their thing? Ultimately, if you just strip it down, you could describe it in five words. It was like Tatum and Brown are really good together. They're durable. They play well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Usually one of them is having a good game. It's a really special combo. And if we had to, and there's a bunch of other reasons, but let's start there. That's why they won the title. 23, Jokic and Murray. Really special combo. Just that they hit a level. They were the best. And that's why they won. 22, Curry, our guy. 21, Giannis. 20, LeBron and AD.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And Poole. 19, Kawhi. Just went to a great level. And they had a really fun team. And he was the center force.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I hope not. Did not. Did not take a lot of time at all. Curry, KD, and Klay for two years. LeBron and Kyrie. Curry and Klay. That's the last 10 years. The question for me was, I think about could Cleveland win the title? How do we talk about it after and be like, what was their thing? And I think it would have to be the guards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I think we would have to say, like you could mention all the other things, but you say, man, their guards were fucking awesome. That's why they won the title. I don't really know what else it would be other than like them shooting 50% from three for the last two rounds, something like that. So I'm just trying to compare them. The last team that you really left the season going, man,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I can't believe they got to that level was the 14 Spurs, right? And they had, going back, they had really good players, but they just like, they meshed and they were awesome. And it made sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, and they were driven. They had the hunger. So with Cleveland, I think it would be the guards. Unless, what do you think? Would it be something different? If we're talking about them in July, oh yeah, Cleveland, of course they won. They had this, this, this. Like, what would be the first thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I would still shade it toward Cleveland in that matchup because of the hunger piece.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, if my life depended on it, I would pick Cleveland, but I don't feel great about it, but I think they're a safer bet. I was going through some of the stats with them, and you know, first of all, they're 56 and 11, which is nuts. Like they still have a chance to get to 69, but they're first in offense. They're shooting 39% from three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They have nobody over 31.3 minutes a game, which is incredible. They've been really fanatical about keeping everybody fresh for the playoffs, which I think is really going to help them. Hunter's at 51% from three for them. But heading into today, Strews is 42 and Jerome is 44. So their role guys are showing up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And then two 15-game winning streaks in the same season. Fifth time it ever happened. It doesn't mean you're going to win the title, but the 71 Bucks and the 2000 Lakers did it. 97 Jazz did it. They made the finals. 07 Suns did it. That was the Robert Horry year. They were the second best team in the league that year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And then you look at some of the historical stuff with teams that won 68 games, four titles, two failures. 67 wins, nine titles, four failures, 66 wins, 12 titles, five failures. The odds are like if they win 66, 67, 68 games, the odds are they're going to make the finals. We talked about this last year with the Celtics. Like you can pick them apart, say they shoot too many threes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
The math is saying they're going to make the finals and they're going to beat Dallas. And you can either trust the math or not. With Cleveland, there's a lot of math in their favor if they can finish the season strong. But they have a tough schedule. They still have like eight road games left. So they might drop. They might end up in the mid-60s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I personally think, Russillo, OKC to me makes much more sense of us talking about them in July and be like, holy shit. SGA, nobody could guard them all year. That team could go big. They could go small. They were deep. They were incredible defensively. The coach is great. They had home court the whole time. It makes sense to me why they won the title.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Cleveland, I'm having a tougher time envisioning it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And then you have a Celtics team that I think has been really careful about the regular season because the last season. You know, though, and one of the things I think that's been so great, I love the Tatum season, like just a plus I positive reviews, five stars. I'm going to, I'll do the tip, like whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Potentially might be, could be, could be breaking out the Cabernet for him. The Tatum to 25 Tatum Cabernet. Um, they've done five times this year. Where they're just like, Jason, we're just going to play a bunch of those. Like, Bailey Shireman's going to play today. Is that cool? You think you can give us like 35 minutes?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Just the two of your teammates at all times are going to be guys who are usually in the G League. but we're going to try to beat Brooklyn anyway. Are you cool? We'll just run, just don't get hurt, but also play really hard. And he's just, he does everything. I think his defense has been great. Like, and Giannis has really come on too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I think that's a good argument, Giannis or Tatum for the number three for MVP. But the top four that we have this year, I think has been pretty awesome. And then Mitchell, I think is a good fit choice too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You're properly rating it. So there's another piece that I can't shake is the hunger piece of it. The Celtics having already won and Cleveland never winning. There was John Krasinski, who writes for The Athletic, covers Timberwolves, different one. But he led a thing. He wrote about Minnesota and Denver this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
No, no, we both like him. This was his first two paragraphs. He said, long after the Timberwolves had vanquished the defending champion Denver Nuggets on their home floor in Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals last season, a Nuggets official emerged from the locker room and started walking down the hallway of the parking lot. They remind me a lot of us last year, he said, shaking his head.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
They just wanted it so damn bad we couldn't match it. I think that's like the number one thing to think about when we go in the playoffs. I think OKC and Cleveland are going to be maniacs because they've never won. And if you're the Celtics, you won last year. There's this extra gear you have to have when you're going back to back. You have to be able to match
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
whatever that other team is bringing, that's like all I want. Like, it's like the Eagles chief Superbowl, same thing. The Eagles just wanted it more than the chiefs. Now they were better. There are all these other reasons, but ultimately that was a way bigger game for them because the chiefs had already won. And I just keep thinking about that with these playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I was thinking about it Wednesday night, watching OKC play the Celtics. The Celtics kept trying to match the intensity of the game. And OKC just was like hungrier. I think SGA is like, he's fucking on a mission. Have you seen that guy play a bad game? Does that guy ever suck anymore? He's unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I think it's really hard to win back-to-back. That's my biggest fear with the Celts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Let's take one more break. I mentioned that I wanted to do this, and then I remembered about 40 minutes after I said we're going to do it. Best third guy in the league. Should this be an award? It'd make more sense than the clutch guy award. So I'll just give you by record in descending order, best third guys. Darius Garland, Chet Holmgren.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Derek White, Van Vliet, Desmond Bain, Austin Reeves, Aaron Gordon, Draymond, Pick a Nick, Brooke Lopez, Nas Reed, Zubach, Miles Turner. Who is the best third guy in the league? Because I think you can make a real case it's Holmgren. I can't believe how good Holmgren is. If he's healthy, I can't believe how good he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Let me add him. Just put him on there. Great. Did he get in a fight in the last four days? Did he have to be separated from anybody?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Nothing would make me happier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, you know what else is funny when they're on on the same night where there's an awesome game? Like if you watch them after you watch like Celtics Thunder the other night and how hard everybody's going, every possession and the switching and the scrambling and the intensity and the aggressiveness. And then you watch the Suns like basically playing like it's an all-star game.
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Cade had a rough game until he got kicked out. It wasn't great for him.
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It's next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new White Lotus recap on the Prestige TV podcast, me, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson. Episode five is an all-time, all-time banger, and we are breaking it down. As soon as you finish that episode, you can listen to our recap. Also, I have new rewatchables coming on Monday. It's kind of
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I don't think he gets enough credit in the scariest guys of the century ranking, Stephen Adams. Because what did he have, like 17 brothers and sisters? He was clearly in 7 million fights. He's from New Zealand. I don't feel like there's any NBA altercation on a basketball court that he would even break a drop of sweat to be involved in.
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He could have been in there, test melee, smiling as people were climbing over the roads.
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The New Zealand people, because they're mostly with us, but it'll be a new story right now in New Zealand that we're even talking about him. They love all Steven Adams conversations.
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Or Chad. I don't know why any of those three guys got thrown out.
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You know, there was an article on ESPN on Friday. It wasn't a now they tell us because the season's still going, but there was some breadcrumbs strewn throughout, including some good Ishbia quotes. There was a hilarious Bradley Beal quote about, I've got my no trade clause, I'm doing great. But reading that piece, they're basically saying, look, Ishbia's gone bookers and untouchable.
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Hmm. No, I, no, I have a couple of thoughts. Um, I think when you're throwing out somebody out of a game, you have to factor in what their reputation is day-to-day, week-to-week as a player. And Cade's not a guy who gets technicals and gets thrown out of games. You can't throw him out. I don't think they would throw LeBron out in that situation.
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There's just certain guys you got to... Whereas if it was Draymond, I get it.
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Just like Cade, I thought that was an awesome game. You're in Detroit. You've got a great crowd. It was a good battle. I'm not throwing guys out of that game if I don't have to. It was a bad job by the refs. I thought Bickerstaff should have been mad. But I think you're right. I think you hit on something with the SGA thing. He is trying to wrestle a fucking shark in a boat.
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He did a couple moves last night. There was there. Well, first of all, it seemed like he might have shoved off, but the guy went like 10 feet backwards. But he had another move where he dusted somebody on that yo-yo move he does and then just went right in the lane. And there was a center waiting for him. And he went into the guy, held it, whipped it left handed. It went in.
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He's doing shit night to night now. That's at the highest possible offensive level that I've seen from a guard. And it's night after night after night now.
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Stop. Come backwards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Do you think he – Go ahead. Is he the number one guy that when they talk about breaking ankles – If somebody actually broke their ankles defending somebody, he would be like a minus 800 favorite on Fanville to be the ankle breaker guy. Guys fly backwards. Guys try to stop. He just like completely embarrasses. And he's embarrassing good defenders. Like pick a guard in the league.
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Like he does that yo-yo thing and it just works. I think he's peak of his powers right now.
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I think you would have. I think if you were a head coach, I think you would have been a great every once in a while press conference, killing the ref, sticking up for your guy's guy. Wouldn't happen often, maybe twice a year. But I think I could have totally seen you doing the press conference last night like JB did. Bang the table at the end, storm out. I feel like you could have done it.
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I would have been more like the quiet, sarcastic. I can't believe you threw me out for that just because I made 14 barbs in a row under my breath. You would have done like a Stan Van Gundy routine. I'm getting thrown out for that just because I called you a dumb motherfucker under my breath 10 times as you ran by and then you finally got mad and threw me out. What? What did I do?
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That's the one guy, like, you know, he's basically saying we're trading Durant in the summer, which everybody knows. I don't think anybody should be an untouchable on this team. The way the last three years have gone, if I was, if the two of us were in a room, we were the conciliators for Ishby, and he's like, well, we can't trade Booker. I would be like, we can't? Really?
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That would have been my move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was trying to think of, as you were talking, I was trying to think of that coach-referee relationship or player-referee relationship. And it's the thing, I think, as both you and I got to know people in the league better and just get under the hood a little bit. And it's so fascinating which guys hate other guys. Certain coaches have certain refs that they just detest.
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Like everybody's available in my opinion on that team. I know they're going to build around Booker, but from what we've seen from him, the last couple of playoffs and then this season and last season too, I just don't feel like there's an untouchable guy in this team. If the Rockets were going to overpay for Booker, I would just think about it at least. I wouldn't just say blanket. No way.
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And the ref knows they're detested. And then it's like, oh, Tuesday night, we got this guy. Fucking, fucking hate this guy. You know, and this is a huge part of the league. Or, you know, it came out a little bit with the Chris Paul, Scott Foster stuff. But every player has one or two people that they just see and like, ah, this fucking guy. And I wonder, like, OKC, part of their magic.
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SGA doesn't talk any shit at all, right? He just does his job, keeps his head down. Dagnall, I think, argues with the refs probably the least of any coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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When he gets hot, though, he can get really hot. But it's only a handful of times. Missoula will get after it every once in a while, and especially if you've sat close to the Celtic game. He's doing a lot of stealth. He's riding refs left and right. Some of the better coaches are really good at not having it seem like on TV, like they're riding the guys, because that's what the refs hate.
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They don't want to be embarrassed. They don't want to look like they're taking shit. So sometimes you'll see like, Kerr's really good at it. He'll walk over to a ref and it'll seem like he's talking to the guy in a really conciliatory way, but he learned this from Popovich. He'll come over and be like, hey, you realize you fucking suck, right? Like that was the worst fucking call ever.
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There's a smile on your face and it seems like they're just talking, but he's like laying into the guy. But he also can become unhinged. Like Kerr will have an unhinged moment.
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The former players, Redick does this now too. Redick will just lose it every once in a while.
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Well, Bill Kennedy was the guy that he... Him and Bill Kennedy, they literally hated each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But if you're the ref, you're reffing the Clippers and you're like, fuck. Exactly. I hate these guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We're not trading them. You like Booker more than I do though.
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Stevens used to do that. Stevens was always the most mellow and just had that kind of calm demeanor. But you know another thing they... So Tatum... I think Tatum's one of the... Like Tatum is just a great guy. He's a good role model.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's just a good guy. But Tatum does like three, four terrible, stupid things with refs that he can't stop doing. He does the wave... You do that, you don't get the call and you're walking back and you do the fuck you wave.
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You're just getting a technical for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's not even like you might as well go toward them and like shake your fist or something. But he does this passive aggressive stuff, which I think they hate even more. Like, fuck you. I'm teeing you up for that. Fuck you. How dare you wave at me? But the best one I ever saw going to games over the years was dealing with the refs was Jordan. But I think there was so much star power with Jordan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I almost feel like this helps the goat case. If you're talking goats, the way the refs were just in his pocket. And I'm not talking about him getting calls. I'm talking about like they're in the dead spots when people are shooting free throws before the game. These guys treated him like, you know, it was like Beyonce walking on stage and they were like in the Bayhive.
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You know, they just it was especially the last three years after he came back. He just had a command of the fans, the refs, the room. He got every call he wanted. If he was upset at a call, he could say whatever he wanted. If he was yelling at a ref, the ref was like kind of bummed out. It's like, oh, Michael Jordan doesn't like doesn't like how I'm reffing today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like you can actually see them like they would just kind of lose it. He was the best. Kobe had a little of that in the second part of the Kobe too.
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Right. And it was like, it was over. That's it. That's done. Yeah. He's a good one. Uh, second best third banana. That was a good tangent for us. Chet Holmgren one. Would you have Derek white to Garland Bain Reeves? Who's your third banana?
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Bridges is in there. Draymond. Nas Reid has been playing great. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So Garland number two? So you go Holmgren one, Garland two, or Garland one, Holmgren two?
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Reeves is in the mix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's the whole point of this exercise. Had him right there too. Had him seven. And then Nas, the way Nas is playing was the other one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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All NBA watch. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Thank you. Thank you.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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If you were Booker, why would you want to stay?
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,.
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,.
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a in ,,,,,, And Russell had 16.2. So in the playoffs, which is that's 160 games, not a small sample size. you got six more points a game from Wilt and Russell was better than everything else. But Russell was also like the greatest teammate of all time and the best defensive player of all time. I don't know what we're arguing.
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It's like we're not going to tank. We have too much pride to do that. So we're going plan B and not everybody thinks that they should do plan B, but that's what we're going to do. It's like, OK, cool. You have no draft picks. You have no way to improve your roster. You're not going to be able to sign free agents. You're over the apron.
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And then the other thing was the, the supporting cast, which I debunked pretty quickly. Like, yeah, Russell first five years of Wilt's career, Russell had better teammates than the next, the rest of Wilt's career. He always had the best teammates, you know, so that you can't say that one either. Um,
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Yeah, he's weirdly become underrated, partially because there's no stats that capture some of the stuff he did. Like, we didn't keep track of Blackstone 1973. So you're just like, yeah, Russell had a lot of blocks that game. And that's how we talked about him in like game seven of a conference finals, whereas like kept track of points and rebounds. So yeah, I think he's underrated.
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kind of moved into sports movie month. So we're doing Days of Thunder. Tom Cruise, his 16th rewatchables movie. So you can check that out. That's on video on Spotify as well, or you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. We have the Sonic Boom podcast that we did in 2019 for Luminary. It's now available on the Ringer Podcast Network.
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He's fallen out of the GOAT conversation, even though he won the most. Everyone in his era always talked about how incredible he was and there was no greater winner, all that stuff. So obviously there's some hybrid, but to me, he's still in the top four all time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You're not going to get nearly what you think you're going to get for Durant. You're just not. He's going to be in year 19 next year, and he's not as impactful two ways as he used to be. And if anything, I would think he's a pretty big injury risk at the age he's at. I just don't think people are ponying up big packages for him. Who's doing it? We go through teams right now.
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It would be, it would basically be what Jonathan Isaac was doing last year in the magic and those 20 minute stretches multiplied by five, but he would have been doing it for eight straight months every year. Wow. We were like, Holy shit. Russell had 17 blocks.
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Yeah, I mean, that's certainly how we felt working on it. Because I just think people forget. And it's like, ah, there was only eight teams back then. Yeah. I remember during the last dance, you and I were doing those pods and we were so stunned how little everybody knew about the Jordan Bulls. It was one of the first times I really felt old.
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Remember there was that Rodman episode and everybody was like, Rodman, what was up with that guy? And we were like, what? He's just assuming everybody knew Rodman was this crazy up and down roller coaster ride that they were able to just kind of corral in time for these three straight post seasons.
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Find me the team that's going to be like, yeah, Durant, right now.
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And basically people like my son just had no idea, which of course they wouldn't, but you just kind of forget because we know all the beats. So that was one of the things we were trying to do with the Celtic series anyway.
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for, for me, I didn't want to fuck it up. I mean, we had so many good people behind it, but I felt like I would have been so mad if somebody else did it and didn't get stuff right. So for me, it's like, just let's not fuck this up. We got one chance. Let's try to make the best version of this. And you know, I, I think what was the one like last, like last dance, I think did a great job.
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of here's this piece of unless you were his teammate right well well that's true but i mean the stuff that people got mad about was pretty honest and that was all that stuff that was in the books too it was just a lot of people to know about it you know and isaiah was mad about how he was portrayed in it which i get i understand but that was right what you think was going to happen
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But what is it, though? Let's say Miami strikes out an off-free agent. It's like, all right, let's go for KD. What's the offer? Like two years ago. Yeah, but it's the kind of team like that. It's like a semi-desperate team. There's other teams that I think with what you've seen from Durant the last couple of years with how unhappy his teams are. And I should mention, I like Kevin Durant.
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Yeah, that was Isaiah's reputation. That's why he got left off the dream team. He was a pretty polarizing guy when he played. So I think when you're doing these things, you have a responsibility to tell the history, be as fair as possible, weigh the agendas of the different people who are doing interviews for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because as the years pass, it becomes super easy to tweak stuff however way you want to make yourself look better. And these are documents. If you're doing them correctly, they're documents.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I remember it came out that, or maybe I'd mentioned that I was writing my basketball book in the late 2000s. I think I probably told you this story, but I'll say it again. Um, and I went to a Celtic game during the KG season and some guy came up to me. He was an older guy. It was like my dad's age. And he was like, Hey, it was like at halftime games. Like, Hey, you're writing that basketball book.
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I saw, saw you writing a basketball book. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, you better get Russell, right? Russell was the best. you don't understand. Russell was the best. I was going to those games. Russell was the best. Just make sure your book covers that. He walked away. I was like, all right, like little stuff like that matters.
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Like this guy was like, just went out of his way to tell me that for 12 seconds. Went and got a beer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's been on a lot of unhappy teams now in the 2020s. I would be scared if I had a young team. Like, let's bring in this guy as the widely leadership vet. Like, can you do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The crazy thing with Wilt was how many people, players, and coaches who either played with him or against him or coached with him or against him. just murdered him. And I don't know whether that was the era or if he was that frustrating, but people just had no problems talking about how he didn't want the ball in the clutch. He's a pain in the ass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, he did get traded twice during the prime of his career, which is usually a red flag. Anyway, Celtic City, third episode, the all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron, a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, the most advanced tech of any Audi ever, experience technology that puts you center stage
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with a panoramic digital stage, plus an optional screen for front seat passengers, perfect for watching the latest sports documentary. The Q6 e-tron, not just a new EV, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at outofusa.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. Speaking of books, John Feinstein passed away.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Um, and he wrote one of the great sports books of all time, season on the brink, which, um, I think breaks of the game is the best sports book ever. Oh, I'll fight that one probably to the death. Cause I don't think anyone's going to top it. And then there's four or five, six books after that, that have to be mentioned. And season on the brink would be one of the first ones for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I remember reading it on an airplane. Um, and the airplane could have crashed and I would have been like, hold on, hold on. I'm on page 68. Like I just, I don't think you can overstate how little information we had in the eighties and to have some reporter just go behind the scenes with Bobby Knight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It was this mythical figure and just capture everything, how insane the guy was, how he dealt with the players and, and the story of that season. And, uh, You know, I just, it was such a memorable experience. I probably read that book five, six times over the course of my life. So after you read a book like that, you know, like the rest is gravy legacy wise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And during a week like this, he wrote a bunch of books, but that book was an all timer. I feel like it changed the way people approach sports books after that. And, uh, and it's a hall of famer for me, Rosillo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Good walk spoiled was a good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, sports books were in a weird spot because they used to be like those autobiographies that were written by the player, but they obviously weren't written by them. And when they made a splash, it was usually like when Spark Aloud did the Bronx Zoo and was shitting on Reggie Jackson in it and they excerpted it in Sport Magazine. It was like, oh my God, he said that about Reggie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And that's kind of where we were. There was some good... or autobiographies like Kareem. Kareem had a decent one. Wilt had a really good one. Bill Russell had two good ones. But for the most part, there wasn't books like this. Halberstam breaks into the game when he spent like a year just immersed in the NBA. It didn't hit like this season on the brink did because of the Knight stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Because Knight got mad was the difference. The way Knight reacted to the book became part of the story. And Knight was... I don't know, the first in the 70s, 80s, 90s, one of the three or four biggest coaches, period. I don't even know how to describe them now. We don't have coaches like that anymore. Like you talked about Dan Hurley before. Nate was like 100 times bigger than Dan Hurley. Totally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that book, that Red book was written, I think, three different times by three different authors. It was like stories about Red. I read all of them. I enjoyed them. That book came out in 86. Another really interesting thing happened with it. Then they had the Steve Alford, Keith Smart year after the book.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And I didn't have like a favorite college basketball team after the BC gambling scandal. I was kind of a free agent. And that book made me like the Indiana, just kind of like, oh, I know those guys. And when that run happened and then they beat DC and Syracuse, you know, and one of the worst no timeouts of all time. Another one that's forgotten.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Go watch that game on YouTube, young people listening to this. Keith Smart hits a shot with like three seconds left and Syracuse just completely botches. I don't know what they're trying to do. Anyway, it was so interesting watching that run with the background of this book and how vivid it was and all the characters and Offred and everybody else. It's a really great one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It's worth, it's worth, it's not that long. I think it's totally worth rereading. And I'm going to read it at some point over the next six weeks because everybody talking about it got me fired up. And we talked about what Russell would be like now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Can you imagine taking 1986 Bobby Knight and just dropping him into college sports in 2025 in the NIL era and social media and people getting triggered? I think he would get fired within five minutes. Um...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
He's a good character in Breaks of the Game, too. There's some good Bobby Knight stuff in there. Before we go, give us three minutes. What do we need to know about March Madness?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You're a big Harry Trish guy, I remember.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I'm surprised that's all he said.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
You should have come back with something from like some sort of German history thing just to fuck with her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
dumb asses I remember my friend Ben who I could talk about this story now because he's not with the person anymore but the Patriots game when they lost to the Ravens in the playoffs in like 2011 when Ray Rice just first play yeah no it might have been the Jets game what was the one where Ridley got knocked out it was the Jets the rematch after they killed them yeah it's the Jets game um
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
He came over halftime with his girlfriend, who I don't even think he'd been dating that long. But I was like, you should come over and watch the game with me and my dad. And it was like Pats fans. And then he showed up with the girlfriend. The moment I saw her, I knew the Pats were going to lose. I was just like, the vibe's off in the room. I feel like we're controlling this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But the Jets just went on a run right after they showed up. So I make fun of them about it now, but I thought it was a bad sign.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
So now the Johnnies are back. Nephew Kyle is all into.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't think you guys are going to be closer than right now. You know, can I say one St. John's thing? Because I've been, and we've probably even talked about this. I've never understood why NBA teams don't add presses if they have depth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Like, I feel like on the side of OKC was just like, hey, with our seven through 12 guys, let's just have a press that we can do for three minutes and the team will never know when it's coming. It would be one of the great weapons we could have in basketball, especially against certain teams that don't necessarily have that. Patino tried it as like an actual regular season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
We're going to do this for long stretches. I'm just saying a little three minute thing like, oh. That Austin Reeves is going to be the point guard right now? Let's press this guy for three minutes with the press that we've been working on. I just think there's something there that would work if you had the athletes. But I like that when they do it in college because it just seems so terrifying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Florida's plus 390. No, they're second. Duke's the favorite, plus 320.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I don't even try to fake it during the championship weekend anymore. I'm just like, oh, I'll jump in when the tournament starts. I've lost. It's another thing I've just given up as I've gotten older because I'm choosing to watch OKC in Detroit. for some reason game 68. Yeah, but I was excited. He's already locked up on one seed and for some reason I'm picking that over like a college hoops game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Uh, we're still out. You're doing two pods this week. We'll be back on this pod next week. Um, we were going to do a gimmick for today, but then we farted around with all this other stuff, which is my fault. So we'll do the gimmick next week that I was really excited about, but I thought would have been really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Somehow we still killed two hours, uh, without doing the giant gimmick that I thought we were going to do. Um, we'll back that pack next week. And then, uh, thanks to Gahal and Kyle and Sruti as well for producing new rewatchables coming Monday night. We did days of thunder. We're still a cruise Kidman. Oh, no kidding. Maybe sort of. Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It's really good. We're a little critical of cruise. Not going to say he's on autopilot in it, but it's, it's, he's done better. It's still great. I mean, he's still, he still puts up 25, seven and eight, but you know, it's not like you won't be telling your grandkids about cold trickle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
No, it's harder. It's harder. Harder. Yeah, it's great. We broke it down. Anyway, that's tomorrow. And then Prestige TV, The White Lotus, episode five, which is a capital B banger, which you got to watch tonight. Capital B pulsating in bold banger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Adolescence on Netflix is good to check that out. Anyway, we're so good to see you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, it's less the market for the players and more the desperation of the suitors. You know, the Warriors are staring at that Jimmy Butler trade for two months. And it got to the point with Steph, like, Steph's going to be 37. We're going to waste another year. He's already breaking down. We have to do something. And you talk yourself into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And also the price dropped, which I think really helped them as well. It got to the point where it was basically a first Wiggins and that was it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And you can get it on our Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. If you remember, the Sonics were one of the most iconic franchises in the NBA. They won the 1979 title. And then all of a sudden, they packed their bags for Oklahoma. And Sonic Boom tells the story of basketball and politics, wealth and power. revealing new truths about the NBA's greatest heist.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But the Butler thing is a really... To me, like this ties into it. If they had gotten Duran instead of Butler, do you think the Warriors would be playing this well? Because I would argue one of the things that I think, and I've watched a ton of Golden State. Like I am just so fired up about the Steph comeback. Steph's now making like a second team all NBA run.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
Like it's kind of stealth, but I think by the time we get to the end of the season, I think he's in the top 10 conversation. But I think what's made this run special for these guys is that Butler doesn't care what his stats are. Everybody on that team is sacrificing. Butler will have games where he doesn't even really shoot. Like he's doing like the 2015 Iguodala. I'll just play some defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
I'm over here if you need me. Oh, you need me? I'll score right now on my guy. But for the most part, he's completely bought in. I don't know if Durant at this point in his career would be able to do all the glue guy stuff that Butler's doing. I don't know if he's that kind of player anymore. To me, he's like, we need him because like Orlando. That's a weird fit, right? They have Paolo and Franz.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
It makes no sense. But Orlando needs somebody who can be like, I can score a bucket right now. I got this. Clear out. It's a team like that that needs scoring. I don't know if it was Golden State necessarily.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
There's some swagger shit with him too that I think is really important. That team has an arrogance to it again, and I mean that in a good way. That team's got its thing back. And I think he brought it back. Draymond started playing a little bit better and started carrying himself a little more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
And the combo of them... I remember the Pistons when they lost Mahorn in the expansion draft after they won the first title. Devastating. Well, they had that whole bad boy thing. He was such a big part of that. And then he left... And it was kind of like, oh, now it's just Lambert and Isaiah and Rodman. And then Rodman had to kind of step up and fill in that bad boy thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo
But the combo of Draymond and Butler, I think, and Moody, you can see it's infected him in a good way too. Like he's carrying himself now. And I just think that team has real playoff toughness. I'm really watching them now as a team. I don't think they can beat OKC necessarily, but they love playing OKC. They've had great games against them. I think they'll be happy to go toe-to-toe with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't foul out on your chance to win with America's number one sportsbook. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Plus enjoy our new NBA player prop pages, your one-stop shop for player props that include FanDuel's exclusive performance trends.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, it's a pastime to complain about all-star weekend. It's been 20 years of it. This was especially bad though, because it was so, so over the top overproduced. I just want to see basketball. I don't need to see, I don't need games to stop for a half hour. We don't need to honor the TNT guys forever. We don't need all these different, we don't need like a slam dunk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Let's remember Vince Carter in 2001, whatever that was. And we got to do that for 10 minutes. And then he comes out and, has to talk to the crowd. I don't know who that's for. It's not for you and I, but it's also not for teenagers. It's not for eight-year-olds. I honestly don't know. People just want to see three-pointers and dunks and a good game. Just go back to that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
In what way? With the three-pointers or something else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
We are going to do Minnesota, Detroit, and Golden State to make the playoffs. Parlay, plus 160 are the current odds. FanDuel is going to boost this for us because they're our friends. They're going to add a 30% ringer profit boost token on all to make the playoffs and to make the play-in futures. So you can take that little Minnesota, Detroit, Golden State thing, which I love.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That was one of the most famous all-star games ever. It was 1977, the year after the merger and Dr. J's first NBA all-star game. And that was when he, I can't remember if he dunked on Kareem or Bill Walton. It was one of them. And it was one of his most famous dunks, but he like Tomahawk threw it down and he was just awesome in the game in general. It really meant something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And it was cool to have all these guys and one game. And that, that faded out by the time Jordan retired the first time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
To me, there's two issues. One is the competitiveness and two is the style. And I think you can pick, you can fix both. And I'm going to have a fix for you that I'm going to throw.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right after this break. All right, Van, it's time. We're fixing the all-star game. And this is the best I've ever felt about a fix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And I actually really feel like I have it. Saturday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Slam dunk. And then the first All-Star game. And then Sunday, three-pointer in the second All-Star game. I'm going to explain. We need the all-star week and have coherence again. It needs to be East versus West.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
We also need stakes. And the whole thing about, well, home court advantage for the finals should go to which conference wins. You can't really do that when you have all these guys who could give a shit about, like, Trae Young's not, just wait, I have a fix. Trae Young's not going to care if the East wins because he's not going to be in the finals, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So if you make home court the prize, you go to a 40 minute game, go FIBA rules. So it moves faster and feels different. And you have eight man teams from the East and the West, right? So we pick, we pick 24 all-stars total, but only 16 of them play in the big game on Sunday with the home court advantage at stakes. Here's the catch. Only players from top five seeds can be in the all-star game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So everyone who's in the Sunday game is actually going to care about home court advantage. So I have it seven on each side plus an eighth person who's a commissioner pick. So eight versus, but we start everything at 7 p.m. We have the three-pointer, three-point contest, first round of it, first half of the game, three-point contest at halftime, and then the second half of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And here's what the teams would be. So we would have, Um, so the West, these are all top five seeds. Okay. Jokic, Jaron Jackson, LeBron, SGA, and Harden as the starters. Jalen Williams and Shingun coming off the bench and Curry as your exemption pick. So it's eight. East, Tatum, Towns, Giannis, Brunson, Mitchell, Mobley, and Jalen Brown. And then the exemption pick would be Cade Cunningham.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's basically going to come down to Golden State, and I believe in Golden State. I'm with you, Draymond. One of the rare times I'm with Draymond. So you can bet that plus 208 and it's going to be available basically from when you hear this podcast all the way until the Lakers Hornets game on Wednesday night. Fando with a ringer future specials tab that you can find really easily.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And we're just fucking going for it. Whoever wins gets home court advantage. Everybody who's in that game is actually going to care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Because this is like, we might get a game seven at home if we win this. Certainly. So then you move to the other thing, the Saturday game. You take the remaining all-stars. There's eight. Wemby, Siakam, Trae Young, Garland, Dame, Anthony Edwards, AD, and Hero. And you have them play the eight best future guys. Castle, the Thompsons, the first, second-year guys. They play those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
$2 million prize, $250K per person if you win. 8v8, same thing, 40-minute games. And you have the slam dunk after it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That's the Saturday game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So that's Saturday game, slam dunk. That's Saturday. Sunday is three point. And then this home court advantage finals game with all the top five, all the best players in the league with actual stakes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I have the eight best Rising Stars against the eight remaining All-Stars who weren't top five seeds. So then we would have to change how we pick the All-Star game a little bit. So we'd have to have at least seven from the top five seeds to be in this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Then guess what? You don't get to fucking play in the all-star game anymore. That's the other thing with this. That's my next wrinkle. Oh, the game's not good enough for you. Don't fucking come next year. You're not eligible. That's it. Adam Silver, the enabler. Let's start hitting people with a ruler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
LeBron, you're playing on Saturday night or next year. He's not going to want to play. Okay, or next year, you're not in the game. This is it. Once you diss us with this weekend, you're out. You don't get to play for home court advantage after that. Let's put real pressure on these dudes. It's like this is an honor and a privilege to be in this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
How much leverage do you feel like the league has to do that? I'm asking, seriously. Well, this is an Adam Silver question because Stern would have been able to do it. Adam wants to be everybody's buddy. That's the difference. Yeah. So again, I'm going to read you the teams. Okay, go for it. East.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Tatum, Towns, Giannis, Brunson, Mitchell, Mobley, Jalen Brown, and then Cade Cunningham is the exemption pick. Versus Jokic, Jaron Jackson, LeBron, SGA, Harden, Jalen Williams, and Shingun. Curry is the pick. 8v8. 40 minute games, three subs. That's it. Everyone's playing. We're fucking going home court advantage for the finals at stake. I'm watching that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's going to include that parlay and some other eligible selection. So claim the PBT in the carousel, apply it to my booster, other futures bets. that you like. All right. We're going to bring in Van Lathan in one second. Pearl Jam's coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Victor still a privilege to be here. Go whoop on all these future stars. And by the way, next year, get a top five seed. So you can be in the Sunday game, right? Because then it would lead to some top five seed jockeying. It's like, oh, shit, there's a week to go until they pick the all-star. We got to get in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You've grabbed a carrot, which is I play for a top five team. So I am in our biggest profile game. Here's the other thing I forgot to mention. This is what they lose with the stupid, oh, guys from different teams. And you have Jalen Brunson playing against Towns. I like when teammates are on an all-star team together. Like this team I laid out, Tatum and Brown get to play together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Mobley and Mitchell get to play together. And then Brunson and Towns gets to play together. And that's like an advantage in a game like this, right? You have SGA and Jalen Williams get to play together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, and it's like, hey, it's crunch time, man. We're the two seed. This could be like a game seven in the finals. But everybody who'd be in that game, including LeBron on the Lakers, has at least a puncher's chance to play in the finals. And then you go down to the runner-up dudes. Wemby, sorry. Like, you're not a top five seed yet. You don't get to be in the Sunday game. Here's the thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Work your way up there, buddy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Saturday night. Huge audience right after the slam dunk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
250 grand. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I would. I think they have to be that. But do you think it's that important? It's not like you're taking money from these dudes. You're just saying like, look, man, you didn't give a shit about this weekend. So we don't want to have you back. Yeah. It's a privilege to be here. You're representing the league. We're trying to build new fans. We're trying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I don't know if you knew this, but during the SNL 50, the music show on Friday night, Eddie Vedder came out and he sang Tom Petty, The Waiting, which was great. And then launched into Corduroy, which is the theme for this podcast. Thank you, Eddie. Here's Pearl Jam. All right, I made Van Lathan come over. We're going to talk about NBA All-Star Weekend, your new favorite sport, hockey.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Because the other thing with this, if I did that Sunday thing, I would start that at seven o'clock. Right? I want kids to watch it. I want kids to be up at 10 o'clock.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I want kids to watch it. Like the way they started last night, you had kids, it was like almost 11 o'clock at night and there's some stupid thing and they're playing to 40.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Like, it's just like, what are we doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I can't tell because I know they make a lot of money from it. It's a corporate event. That's what they do. I mean, if it were up to me, it would be two nights. That's it. I think it's too many nights. I think this break is... Like right now, there's no sports. We're taping this on a Monday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
If this hockey thing wasn't happening, there'd be nothing happening right now other than college basketball and people put down mock drafts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Spring training's coming back. I saw the new Red Sox double play combo. I got a little excited about it. We got Bregman. No, I think they need to... Some sort of juice or really seriously think about not doing it anymore. Those would be my two options at this point. Because here's the thing, it's bad for the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's bad to have a bad weekend where every type of fan you have is like, that sucked, I didn't like it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, and then you have Draymond, too, on the announcing team just killing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So two things. One, he was right. I give him credit for saying it. Two, you don't want somebody who's on TV when it's this thing you're trying to push and so do your fans just shitting on it, which I think is a real problem for them because football doesn't let football people do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
When the football guys are out there, everything is very like, let's go to so-and-so who talked to Pat Mahomes and it's like this glowy, glossy light set and Mahomes says nothing for three minutes. They throw it back and Gronk's talking about what a great guy he is, and it's just how they do football. But I don't know. I kind of like it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I don't want to see critical shit when I'm about to watch a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You would go if it was a good event. You would go if it was like East versus West with finals home court at stake and people actually giving a shit. Like I've been at all-star games when people gave a shit. And maybe it was just for a fourth quarter, and it's fucking cool. It was one of my favorite things.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I mean, the real week to do it is that dead week between conference championship games and Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
where they could maybe do it then. But that's also a good week for basketball because that's the one week people kind of drift toward watching games night after night after night. The question to me is like, do they care? And they claim they do. It also feels like who's deciding this? Because whoever decided the structure of this last weekend, I don't understand it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's not like an entertainment person. It's not somebody who can look at basketball objectively. So who is it? Is it like the owners? I wonder who's spearheading this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And then 20 years ago, it started to shift. And then they would have a couple good ones. But people forget the bad ones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You go one out of every three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I remember leaving the stadium for a couple of those being like, never again, never going again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So I'm saying is. Dwight Howard. But Dwight Howard, that was great stuff, though. Was it? Yeah. You weren't into it? I don't like watching centers dunk in the dunk contest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He jumped. Should Wimby be in the dunk contest?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Have I told you my nobody should be allowed to use props in the dunk contest rule? I feel like I'm going to hear it now. Well, just like, what the fuck is a car doing on the court? And also, we've already seen it. Like, come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I think that's about it. But I think the human has to be facing you like they're a defender. Right. Make it look at least a little like basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You're a true patriot now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I either want real stars or just find me the best dunkers, three-point shooters, whatever. I think they made a huge mistake not putting a couple of WNBA players in the three-point contest, too. I just think people like the WNBA. Like, Caitlyn should have been in the three-point contest. Just period.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It was the three fights in nine seconds got you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And I would have had an Eskew, like I would have had at least two WNBA players and I would have made the three point contest longer. And I think it would have been more interesting. Like they own the WNBA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's not like it would be like this crazy, you know, it's basically like what NBC used to do in the nineties where they'd be like, now the friend stars are going on ER, you know, and they do those crossover shows. Yeah. Just fucking bring Caitlyn. Why can't she be at All-Star Weekend? I'm into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Me too. I started getting emails after the second fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I know where you're going. Right. Counter. Counter. Are you turning the channel? That's where we have to go back to with all this stuff is are you turning the channel? It's like Andre Jackson from the Bucks is dunking. I'm pretty sure I can go get a tea right now and maybe come back for Mac McClung trying to jump over at Kia.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But if it's like three point contest and Tyler Hero just went and now here comes Caitlin Clark. I'm fucking watching. I'm not turning the channel for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They broke up, got back together, got an apartment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
This is why I'm telling Adam Silver's got to dress up like a dominatrix and make these motherfuckers play hard again. Seriously. I don't think it's that dire because I think if you have stakes and you have stars, you can still win with a basketball sporting event. And here to bring a full circle to the hockey, we just watched all these Canadian USA dudes really give a shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It wasn't just the three fights. That game was really, that was like a game seven. It was physical. Like McAvoy had that awesome check on McDavid. Like nobody hits McDavid like that. They were fantastic. They really cared. So you can't tell me that these guys in the NBA, you can't pull that out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, I would really care if the Celtics had a chance to get home court in the finals because they won this All-Star game. Certainly. Now I'm watching that with Celtics friends. What are you doing to make it interesting for them? For the players. Got to be money. Home court matters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Home court matters for the top five seeds. That's a real thing. And then for everybody else, money. Throw money at it. Throw some money at it. It worked for NBA Cup. They threw money at NBA Cup and people, the guys that played kind of gave a shit about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
In an exhibition that meant nothing, that nobody even knew what it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Donate that to somebody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But it had the problem that we're trying to fix with this. You have guys in the game who don't care because they're not going to make the World Series. Right. So what do they care about, you know, where a Game 7 of the World Series is? In this case, if you had all the top five seeds... They're going to care. Let's take one more break and we'll get to ref beats. Okay, cool. Kendrick versus Drake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Day 280. I don't know. It's like the Iranian hostage crisis. Day 310. Still going. Kendrick's having like, this is like driven Kendrick to like A++ levels. He's just dominating. Coming off Super Bowl show. Drake still seems like he's interested in continuing the beef. Yeah. He's like, keeps coming out of his corner. The trainer's like, no, no, no. I'm going to throw the towels.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
One more round, one more round. Is this the last rap beef ever for you? No, no. The last huge one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So this is just going to keep happening?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So we need, it's fundamentally, we need this in the deal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And the people in Montreal care. Did you hear how quiet it got the last five minutes of that game? Yep. They were super quiet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That's why most rap beefs happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He's like the crazy guy in the street who's just yelling outside somebody's window.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, the reason I asked why is this going to be the last big one is because Drake lost it so decidedly. I wonder if it becomes like NBA All-Star Weekend where it becomes not worth it. The risk reward thing is almost too great because Drake would be this casual that everyone looked back at. Other people think he's just going to go away for four months, come back and be fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Okay, explain.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
The internet in full bloom we've never had for one of these, the way we have the internet and the shape it's in in 2025.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
No-holds-barred. Yeah. No-hold-barred internet in every respect. Right. And you can go as personal as you want. You can do AI stuff now. There's all these different ways you can make the other side look bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
My son Ben Simmons, not the Clippers Ben Simmons, he says it's over. Drake's dead. Nobody cares. That's his 17-year-old L.A. take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's longer than three rounds, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Greatest, greatest, one of the greatest boxing photos ever. Hagler like this with his hands up and in the back you can see Hearns being like carried back to his corner. Yeah. Fucking classic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Do you give Massachusetts credit for Hagler or no?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Brockston.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That was the hardest fight for me. Cause Sugar Ray was my guy, but Hager was basically a Boston team. So I picked Sugar Ray. Cause Sugar Ray was my favorite from like the 76 Olympics on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I thought he did. It's one of the great arguments, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
There's other people who are like passionately convinced Hagler won and they get really mad if you bring it up. I just think he was sloppy and wasn't landing and he was off balance the whole fight. I didn't think he fought a good fight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, we're taping this before all the Monday games. The Thursday finals is going to be in Boston, USA against somebody, hopefully Canada, because I can't wait to see USA versus Canada in Boston. It'll be awesome. But that's not why you're here. You're here for a few reasons. We're going to try to fix NBA All-Star Weekend and decide whether it could even be fixed. Is it a sunk cost?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I'm not surprised to see me blinking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, sound off is important because the crowd was really behind Leonard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, he went to Italy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Hagler wasn't the same after the Mugabe fight. He had a lot of boxing miles on him at that point. Wasn't the same going into the Mugabe fight either. Early 80s Hagler against that version of Leonard, he knocks him out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He planned out. He would steal, like, the last 20 seconds of rounds. Like, he really figured out how to win a scorecard against Marvin Aguilar. Anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, but what do you do after you've decidedly lost the biggest rap beef at least in the last 10 years, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Last 12 years?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
21st century?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, it's tied to the generations too much, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's almost like arguing about different eras of basketball. Well, but the only reason why I say it is because Biggie Tupac was like, the whole art form was still evolving as that was happening, you know, and it was so tied into like this incredibly influential decade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And here we're, we're already set. Music is music is what it is. Everybody's figured out their versions about it. So it's like, it's almost amazing that it got to this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You have a theory about, well, do your exploration theory.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, the other way to help your argument is the best song that came out of this whole beef becomes one of the best songs of the decade. Yeah. At least most famous, most influential, will be most discussed 20 years from now. And people are like, the 2020s, what were the big songs? It'll be one of the first ones mentioned. All the other rap beef songs, none of them hit the heights that this did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I mean, this is basically... I'm not going to say Michael Jackson thriller territory, but like that one level below.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They weren't playing Hit Em Up at the Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's like, all right, it's halftime at Chargers Niners. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's a tough one. I don't know how Drake bounces back from it. It's also, there's a talent issue too. As successful and great as Drake's, some of his stuff has been, Kendrick's just levitating at a slightly different level. Whether you, how much you like his music, whatever, like he's the best artist that the genre has produced in the last 12 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Kendrick's a one-on-one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You think Drake, because Kendrick's short. I think Drake really missed the, I think like his disresponse could have just been like an entire short song.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But he didn't really go after it. I think that's like his one move left and it'll probably be clumsy and not work well. He should have sampled short people. Just a whole short song. Just like, just mocking Kendrick for being short. It's like his only move left now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, Kendrick's going on tour. Going on tour. And this will just keep going and going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
All right, so you're Drake's Tom Hagen. You're his conciliar. He hires you for a week. What are your two pieces of advice for Drake?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, how about this? Maybe he was. They just didn't give him the chance. They just decided he wasn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Let me tell you what, my Kraut McFriend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Cheers is like this. And yet Seinfeld lives on and Friends lives on. But then like Family Ties didn't. So you just kind of never know when it's going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, I can't wait.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He said it's done. He's like, nobody cares about Drake anymore. Ben Simmons quote, my 17 year old son who knows everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I like your idea of him attacking different parts of the country correctly. Almost like he's running for an election. He's like, all right, where's Kendrick week? I can get him in the South. Can I get him in the Northeast? Like just start picking different pockets culminating in the Superbowl show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, but it's almost like wrestling. I always feel like pop artists, different musicians, different genres, you got like an 8 to 12 year shelf life. Yeah. And then you got to start figuring out next acts. Like you think about even like somebody like Hulk Hogan, right? Comes in, hits big in the 84 range.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And by the time we get to like when he turned in WCW, yeah, that was like 11, 12 year mark because it was like his character had run its course the way he was doing it. He's got to flip it. Now I'm going to darken my beard and become Hollywood Hogan. Think about how many musicians have been able to even... Hit musicians, big hits, have been able to last longer than 10 years. It's not a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
By the way, another one is funny actors, like comedians. Like comedians in movies churning out funny stuff that we care about. It's like 8 to 10 years. But those comedians... Then they have to audible. Then they start. You make a drama. Now all of a sudden you're on like a streamer show. Like you got to start.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And I think it's really tough to stay relevant in music for that long because eventually the new kids that are listening to it are going to determine who's hot. And they don't want to root for like, they don't want to like their dad's music.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And if you have your Kanye playlist, maybe roll the windows up as you're jamming along to it right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I 100% agree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. Not great. Been a lot to my family over the years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You're not cranking it at a July 4th party. Yeah, it's all of the lights. Hey, I got seven Kanye songs in a row here for everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That's the thing. That's why you roll the windows up. Roll them up. Van Lathan, good to see you. We're doing rewatchables. Van's going to be on rewatchables on Monday and then Higher Learning and Ringiverse as well. Thank you. All right. We couldn't let SNL 50 go by without an appearance from our friend Jim Miller, who has been on here many times. He wrote the oral history of SNL.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
He is an even bigger SNL student than I think I am, which I don't even know how that's possible. But we just had a three and a half hour Sunday night show last night that featured almost everybody ever who's been involved with the show who's still alive. What was your biggest takeaway from last night?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I think one of the coolest Sandler, I thought kind of, I don't know if anyone wins a three and a half hour SNL episode with that many people in it, but Sandler's thing was great. And it was when you saw him, it was like, is this going to be funny? Is it going to be poignant? It's going to be both, but he really nailed it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And then for me, the highlight was just seeing Eddie Murphy and Will Ferrell on a sketch together. Cause I think those to me are the goats. Those are the two best people in the history of the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, there's no question. And not, not only that, but I think he was the only person who was probably overqualified to be in the show. Like, Hey, he ascended out of it. It was like, he was like moonlighting on the, on the show almost by the end where I don't, I don't know if that phenomenon has ever been recaptured.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, a couple of people have done that, I guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So the big people missing, Hayter, and we don't know why they didn't come, but Hayter and Aykroyd, I think were the two that jumped out to me the hardest. Colin Quinn. Yeah, but I think Hayter would have been involved in multiple sketches because you'd think like, Molly Shannon was in multiple sketches. The way they were using different people and how... how great Hayter was as a glue guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Has it happened already to All-Star weekend?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I just think he would have been all over the place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. And then Dana Carvey was the other one that I was surprised by because he's been on the show this year and he had said he was looking forward to being on it. So I'm not sure what happened with that, but I think he would have been involved.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So a lot of it has to do with How being a sports fan has changed from the late 70s to the early 2000s to now, right? When I was a kid, the All-Star Game was amazing because it was like George Gervin, David Thompson, people like that were never on television. So to have like some of my favorite Celtics in a game with people like Walter Davis, it was like I never got to see those guys play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So do you feel like part of it was SNL 40 felt like the original version of this and the 50th is, you know, they're basically rerunning a lot of the stuff they did in SNL 40 with 10 years of newer cast members, only a couple of whom have come even 20% as close to hitting the heights as some of these other people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president-elect states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, we're going to try to fix NBA All-Star Weekend plus hockey? SNL 50? HBO? Lots more next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. There was some stuff that didn't surprise me. Like you knew Paul Simon was going to lead the show. That was just the way it's going to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. But Paul was like, he hosted the second show, which was basically, it turned out to be a Simon and Garfunkel reunion. The sketches were shoved to the side. And I think Lorne was so worried after that first show, what would even be in the second show? He geared it towards Simon and then Simon became... you know, this guy that's been on over and over and over again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And now, you know, it's pretty striking how old he looked and how old McCartney looked. And you'd be like, that makes sense because this show's been on for 50 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It really mattered. That peaked in 87. Best all-star game we've ever had. You remember that, right? Rolando Blackman made the free throws with time expired to send it to overtime. I have no recollection.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, and it was basically a musical show with a couple of sketches in it. That second episode thing, I've thought about that a lot because when you're creating a show, especially if it's a drama, you're spending a year plus on the pilot, right? And you're getting notes from all these people and you're going back and then finally you cast it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And you're casting these people who have never played the characters before. And it could be a year long process. You make it. And now all of a sudden you have to make eight more episodes, nine more episodes. And you're doing that as fast as it took to do the entire process for the pilot. So it is something that I always think about when I watch new shows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, and it probably wasn't until the prior episode that the show really knew where it was going and what it was, which was the 11th episode of the first season, right? There was a couple other good ones until then, but about midway through that season, the show became the show, but they ran the pot. They ran the first episode on a Saturday night in the 1130 spot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I guarantee if you watched it, you'd have a great time. Okay, cool. Goes into overtime. Tom Chambers becomes James Worthy during the game. Magic's just feeding him. Bird's in it. Jordan's in it. Everybody's in it. It's amazing. And I think the last good all-star game was 2001. Because I did a running diary of the 03 All-Star game, which was Jordan's last one. It went into overtime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And it's, it's like Carlin's does three different monologues. The Muppets are on there. Like that, that shows all over the place. They have no idea what it is yet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, and the amount of people that watch the show as it was happening in the 70s versus how it's consumed now, which says so much to do about the choices we have now and just how we consume entertainment. Like in 1978, if you didn't see the show live, it wasn't on again until they ran the reruns in the summer. That was it. You missed it. You just heard word of mouth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh my God, they had the sketch last night. Now it's like you can miss the show. And if there's something amazing in it, there's a big moment. You just watch it the next day on YouTube.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah. The surprise of I'm watching this. I don't know what's going to happen. That's just shifted into something completely different. But what's weird is the show, at least from an audience standpoint in 2025 is still big. I think it's like probably the biggest non-sports property that exists.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And if you just look at the basketball reference, it's like, oh, that must have been a good game. It wasn't. 01 was the last one. I think what's changed. So I remember I got league pass in 2000 because I got a direct TV dish. I got to see all these guys constantly. Social media comes in. The internet comes in. And it's just not special in the same way to see all these guys on a court.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, we'll see how long that lasts. Some stuff from the show that jumped out to me. So Meryl Streep, who'd never been on the show, never hosted. And how many times do you think they asked her?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Weird that she never did it. She seems pretty fun. And she lives in New York City or she lives in Connecticut, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That makes more sense to me. Because of dyslexia and the cue cards? No, because he's Tom Cruise. He's weird. I don't know what to make of Tom Cruise. Going any direction with Tom Cruise, I don't know. He's a big movie star. He's a big movie star. He's more likely to jump a motorcycle over some mountain than he would be to host a live sketch show where anything could happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, I think he would definitely say the latter. So he never did it. Meryl Streep never did it. And then the other one who never did it was Jack Nicholson, who was partying with all these people in the 70s, especially. You know, he's in the Belushi books like he's early and often. So, by the way, so is De Niro, who was there last night to De Niro finally broke and hosted.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But I think Nicholson and Streep are the two biggest stars that never hosted the show. Right. Two most famous actors other than Cruise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Those are the three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, he did the Joe Pesci show. Yeah, that was the best one. When Jim Brewer was... Jim Brewer, probably his best thing when he was doing the Pesci things. So anyway, I love seeing Meryl Streep with Kate McKinnon, even though that Alien Encounter sketch, which is great, but it's the same sketch every time. They're just rerunning all the beats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I know, but that's when you know... The Meryl Streep ad was fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And she's just trying to make everybody else laugh. So we had that. We had Black Jeopardy with Eddie Murphy playing Tracy Morgan next to Tracy Morgan, which was, that was the first time I really laughed in the first, I don't know, 30 minutes where I was like, oh my God, they're doing this. I mean, it was super exciting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
No, you didn't need anything else with Eddie. Yeah, there's no question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Eddie was one of the big winners last night. They tried the Lawrence Welk thing with Scarlett Johansson and Kim Kardashian, Gasteyer, Kristen Wiig. That's the same sketch every time. The Q&A from the audience was captivating, especially with the nice TV, nice widescreen, because every time they cut to somebody in the audience...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You could watch, you could see everybody who was in like a specific section. I wasn't even really listening to the Q&A. I was like, wait a second. Oh, oh, there's that. And there's that person. And I almost feel like that's, they intentionally do that, right? So we could just see who's there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So they have, that's problem number one. Is there anything you want to add to that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Really smart way to get a bunch of people involved in the show. I got to say the most surprising person, I don't know why Kevin Costner was there because he's never hosted the show. It just felt like they needed a star. And he seems like he's pretty available in general, like he was at UFC last month. But Letterman being there was shocking to me. That was somebody that's never hosted the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And I never felt like I had a real connection to it in any way, but maybe he did and I'm missing something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I was surprised by that. I was surprised Bill Murray ranked the weekend update people and started with Colin Quintent, who wasn't there. That just felt like a direct shot. But that was, it actually felt like old school Bill Murray, like his pace and his timing was really good, I thought.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So we had Mulaney's New York Tribute, which was like this big giant movie that moves through the through the eras of New York that I actually thought was was really well written and interesting. I'm not positive it 100 percent worked, but I liked it. They ran back. Don't look back in anger. One of the great pieces of content that was ever produced.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And from start to finish, they didn't just run a minute of it. They actually know which I thought mattered.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
No question. I was watching with my wife, and my wife didn't totally understand why they... She's not a big SNL student.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Mine was more illegal because I lived in an apartment. I wasn't supposed to have a DirecTV dish. And I had to lie and pretend I owned the house to get DirecTV. Because it was literally illegal to have it if you just rented.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, she was like, why did they... why'd they run that? That was weird. And I was like, well, here's the backstory. Like they ran that Belushi lives in the, and he was actually the one that died first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So we had the stagehand. We had the in-memoriam thing I thought was probably my favorite part of the show. when they did the In Memoriam of all the times they've crossed the line, I'm like, are they gonna show Uncle Roy? They gotta show Uncle Roy. And then they, Uncle Roy, the most indefensible sketch probably in the history of the show, but it was the 70s and shit happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
The lecherous babysitter trying to creep on Gilda Radner. But they went through all of it and I loved it because it's like, you know what? Comedy changes. The definition of what's funny and what isn't funny changes. It's not, you can't go back retroactively and litigate it. This was stuff that ran. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And then Debbie Downer, which I think has belatedly become one of the most famous sketches in the history of the show. It was funny when it happened, but I think as the years have passed, it's one of the go-to ones people mention.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I would have, if they had asked me, I would have had Neil Diamond Storytellers with James Brown and just brought Eddie and Will together and just had them do. I just think that would have gotten the biggest wow from me out of basically anything they could have done if they had just done those two together. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
But that doesn't help the Lawrence Welk sketch. I mean, Lawrence Welk isn't in there. That's the thing. If you're going to do Lawrence Welk, I would have rather, yeah, anyway, what were you going to say?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
So there's some Lawrence stuff with this. You know, there's five years where he's not on the show. Right. And Ebersole is running the show and that's been fraught. Yeah, Gene and Gene Dominion initially, she gets fired, Ebersole takes over. You've written about this a ton. It's been talked about a ton. It's always been a little icy with the two of them, but credit dating back to 75.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It was notable to me that Eddie was really the only person from that five-year run that was prominently involved in anything. Like there was no Piscopo at all. Julie Lee Dreyfuss was in the Q&A and that's it. it was a show that just kind of pretended those five years didn't, Billy Crystal wasn't anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Martin Short was in it, but Martin Short has become kind of an honorary host slash cast member along the lines of Steve Martin. But he was a big part of that season 10 cast. But for the most part, he pretends that doesn't happen those five years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. Never went to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Not used at all for anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
The cast after, Carvey, not there. Hartman, not with us, sadly. Same with Jan Hooks. And Myers was really the only one. They went to Levitt's. pretty briefly, but the show was a little geared toward those last, basically last 30 years. The other notable thing to me, the last 10 years of cast members, Pete Davidson, Bo Nyang, they got attention.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That was MJ's last game. He wasn't good in it. It went into overtime. It wasn't a great game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Marcelo got in on one of those sketches because I think out of anyone on the new cast, he seems to be the one they think they might have hit, might have struck oil on a little bit. But other than that, that show was not a big win for the current cast, which I think was different from SNL 40 when the current cast was a little more involved.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
you know, many popular with his social, his social game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
No, he became a weekend update guy, you know, and it wasn't like he was, he was never like, let's build all the sketches around him. Like he would with Will Ferrell, somebody like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, it had a couple moments.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
And a couple of movies too. So the Lorne piece of this, I'm assuming there's not going to be an SNL 60 with Lorne Michaels. That would be insane. People always thought... Well, he could show up for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
No, but he's not going to be producing. Last night, he was sitting in an aisle seat like three, four rows up. So he wasn't producing it. He actually seemed like he was an audience member for it. I'm sure he decided every sketch and who was going to be there and who was going to sit where. But it felt like he was a little more detached than he was probably.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, that was 10 years. Yeah, that was the last one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Right. So what happens now to Lorne? What's your prediction?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Were you surprised A, Chevy Chase not featured in anything? Was that because of physical health or something else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Interesting. Well, he certainly has burned some bridges over the years, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I think it's safe to say. Yeah. So that one was weird. And then Conan O'Brien. Not involved last night. Is that still going to the when he took the Tonight Show and didn't didn't include Lorne and his version of Tonight Show, which people have always said that was one of the reasons Leno was able to kind of double cross him and try to get the show back because he wasn't protected by Lorne.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I don't know. Where does that stand?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I'm not talking about Conan being petty. I'm talking about, is there still some Lauren pettiness with that whole thing? Because I had always thought there was. No? No. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Do you agree with the David Stern theory with Lorne that I think we've talked about before about the moment you give up this job, you give up this power and influence that's just never going to be the same and that's one of the reasons you keep it for as long as you can. Everyone's returning your call the moment you call them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, because you can't. Mac McClung was fun, but I don't care about Mac McClung. They might as well pull somebody from the stands. He's not an actual NBA player. He's like in the G League. So at that point, just go get people from YouTube and have them dunk. It's not like Mac McClung's playing NBA minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Before we go, any predictions for the second half of the decade for ESPN? Another place you wrote a book about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, they've had it for the last, I don't know, two plus decades. But how's it going to be different with this contract?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I feel like it's just getting louder and dumber, the coverage around it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
How do you feel from people working there, happy to be working there standpoint in 2025? Because you always have a good vibe of workplace happiness.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
That's what I'm hearing as well. HBO, another place that you wrote a book about, new series coming out March 3rd, Celtic City, nine parts, Celtic's docuseries. It's really good. But wait, how are you feeling about HBO these days and the Time Warner empire?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, I think with the Max app, it just shouldn't be that hard to find the best shows HBO's ever done or the new shows. You feel like you're wading through all these different choices and sometimes somebody's going on there like, I just want to watch Sex and the City.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, the best way to fight off any sort of weirdness is to just keep putting out good stuff, which it seems like they had to push a lot of stuff to 2025. And it seems like they are going to have a bunch of good content this year. And the question will be, how can they push it in the Max app the best possible way?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Thanks. It was a lot of time. Anything else you're working on before we go? Got a secret project you want to tell us about now? Just writing, writing, writing. What are you writing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Oh, all right. Mysterious Jim Miller. Thanks for your SNOW50 recap. Good to see you as always. Hey, thanks for having me, man. All right. Thanks to Van Lathan and Jim Miller. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, you can watch clips and videos from this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch this as a video podcast on Spotify. I hope you did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
We will be coming back on Thursday, actually, after the big Austin live show. We're going to run that on this feed. It's going to be good. I promise. And don't forget, new rewatch was coming Monday night, Wayne's World. So I will see you on Thursday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
We did Wayne's World in honor of SNL. 50, a little bit later, Jim Miller is going to be coming on to talk about the big three plus hour SNL 50 show and our biggest takeaways. Also having Van Lathan on at the beginning of this podcast to talk about NBA All-Star Weekend. And can we save this thing? Is this just the sunk cost at this point? Plus we have some other stuff we're going to cover.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They don't want to get embarrassed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
They don't want to end up on Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, you name it, because they got dunked on because they missed the three, anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, the three-pointers are the other big thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's turned into the worst. So the game itself has turned into just a terrible pickup game with no defense. Now that's the way it used to be for two and a half, three quarters. But the great thing about the all-star game was it would settle into being an awesome game. And it was always a nice little snapshot of like who mattered that season. You'd see the five guys on each side, East versus West.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
You'd have a feel for like, all right, these are the guys now. This is it. Like everybody else got to play. Now who are 10 guys that really matter? once they started messing with the teams and doing like the thing they did this weekend. And I flagged it from the beginning, the rising, the four teams. And one of them is the rising star. That's just stupidity. Yeah, it really is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
It's like, nobody wants to see Zach Eady and Steve and Stefan Castle, all these dudes who I like, but we don't see them on Sunday night. This is like, this is where you promote the biggest stars you have. There's nothing fun about watching these guys who have been barely in the league against like Steph Curry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
LeBron didn't play. LeBron's like, I'm good. Do you think it's weird he just decided not to play five hours before the game? It's incredibly weird. It's just a rare loss for him because there's no way you're not taking a loss and taking shit for that. So why? Everybody wants to see him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Well, you love basketball, we should say.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Yeah, the closest is Castle, who is probably like the third or fourth best Spur. And the Spurs have their five games under .500. He's a rookie. And he was by far the biggest star in the slam dunk contest. That's not good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.com. You know, I didn't do great at my Super Bowl bets. And, you know, I got seduced like a lot of other people with the Pat Mahomes thing. So I'm trying to make it up to you guys. We have the seasons coming back after this all-star break. I basically forced FanDuel to come up with a playoff prop for me. And this is what we did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
Can I give you a dunk idea? I just thought of this as you were talking. What about dunk battle? Okay, what's this? It's just one guy challenges another guy at All-Star Saturday. And it's just one-on-one. So like the Thompson twins are like, dunk contest, two of us, let's go. And the dunk contest is just like four one-on-one just for pride battles. Like Giannis is like, you know what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller
I'm tired of this Wimbinyama shit. Let's go dunk contest right now. You versus me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And then the other thing I don't miss is either he throws the pick or a terrible pass. and the defense is celebrating, and then you just know you're going to get the cut to Mac Jones just kind of stomping off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I do think some quarterbacks, like Wentz was... really good for Philly and now and then all of a sudden wasn't good right like Jameis was always up and down he never had a moment where he seemed awesome but our guy Josh Freeman was awesome for like a year oh yeah Mack was never awesome but it seemed like he was going to have at least a 10 year career and be Andy Dalton
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, I had Mack. Mack was on my board. But my next guy is Richardson on the Colts. Who... Cannot complete 50% of his passes, which in the NFL in 2024, when you're not allowed to hit the quarterback, you're not allowed to hit receivers over the middle. You just have all of these advantages all over the place to not even be able to complete half your passes. It's a real obstacle for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And sometimes they can overcome it, especially in close games. Like they came back and beat the Pats, but against the, the Broncos, it was so bad that it led to the worst play of the year. Yeah. If there was a worst play every year, like the ESPYs, the worst play, what was that year when Jacoby Myers lateraled backwards and it got intercepted by the Raiders and scored?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
We were like, oh my God, I can't believe it. There was a pick six on a double pass that swung the Colts-Broncos game. And this is a game where Jonathan Taylor dropped the ball before he ran into the end zone to celebrate. And somehow that wasn't the worst play of the game because this was worse. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Have you ever seen that play before?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
No, I've never seen that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And it made me sad because Lombardi, who took this UNC job for Belichick, And this is the kind of shit that he used to love. And it definitely would have been a big podcast thing for him. But now we're going to have to carry the slate that Shane Steichen has to call a double pass that gets picked off for a pick six because this quarterback can't complete an eight yard pass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I don't know what you do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I had this coming up later, but I'm happy to discuss this now, because... Do people black out when they're about to score? It's the only thing I can think of. Is it like having an orgasm where you just kind of lose perspective? You just like lose the ball. What other explanation could there be? Do you literally like black out?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold, Michelob Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them. So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens. People come over, they want a beer. They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or I've never tried one of these.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Oh, that'd be nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, just cross the goal line with a ball. Come on. But the thing is, it's not like this happens once every seven years. This happens like four times a year in college and pro football. It feels like it happens once a month, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Because the other thing that always drives us crazy is when the guy reaches to try to score near the goal line and the ball gets batted out or he fumbles it through the end zone. That's more understandable because it's like, all right, the guy's doing everything he can to try to score. This is just, it's a full-fledged blackout. Yeah. All right, so I had Richardson, so you're up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
There's some good ones left still.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It's been really bad for two weeks now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, Jameis is like, he's like s'mores. It's amazing to have s'mores once in a while. They're the greatest thing ever. But if you ate it every night, you would just get diabetes and eventually die. Jameis is super fun. Toast Jameis and marshmallows. Let's get a fire. Oh, put it in the...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I don't know. I guarantee Chang's having a great time listening to this. Jameis has 13 touchdowns and 12 picks this season, which I mentioned because he didn't play for the first half of the season. He's a 30-30 guy. Six games? Right. He's got a lot of work to do to get to 30-30. Well, there's still some good guys left. I...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I'm going to go Rattler just because the fact that his coach decided at some point this week, let's try Hainer. To me, that's got to be on Rattler's resume. He was actually pretty good in the comeback today against Washington, but I'll go Rattler. All right, you take in... We have three left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
We have Bryce Young's left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I actually forgot how Sam Howell's unique trait of just standing in the pocket slowly collapsed on him like a building. Right. He did it four times in the game. He never veers out. He's like, ah, ah, ah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
for like, I don't know, one pass. And I wrote down, cause Stroud was already like kind of struggling in the Houston game. And I wrote down, we got to talk about, could Stroud versus Bryce be an argument again? And then Bryce proceeded at four picks. I might've said that on a podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
All right, so I guess I have to take Cooper Rush, and then you could have the last pick and take Wash Rogers if you want.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
That Jets-Jaguars game. I thought was an absolute delight between some of the quarterback moments, some of the game management, and then the Jets, who really all they had to do was kneel, do something, and they just could have kicked a field goal and the Jaguars would have the ball back with 10 seconds left. Instead, the Jets charge it and score. What's that coach's name? Ulbrich?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
The guy who's going to get fired when the season ends. They can't interview Bill Belichick or Mike Vrabel, apparently, even though the season's not over. Um, so they just let, and then all of a sudden it seems like Jacksonville can come back down And it was just one of the dumber things. It kind of got under the radar because it was two terrible teams. Who cares? They're both 3-10.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But it was just kind of stunning. Nobody does shit like that anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
You hate that there's even a 3% chance that that's true. There's three scenarios. One is the Jets are full of shit and leaking this and it's not true because they hate Belichick and want to make him look bad. Right. The second scenario is that he kicked the tires with them. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Not because he wanted to work with them, but because he wanted to gauge interest just in general, what the league interest was in him. And then the third door is that he actually wanted to work for them, which I will never believe for the rest of my life, that Bill Belichick, the guy who hated the Jets...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
hated them every time the Patriots played them would try to pour it on and embarrass them in games like despise them then got his 12 media gigs this year and lob shots at the Jets the entire season and Woody Johnson like can't stand them and now he wants to work for them I'm just my shit detector is going off left and right he clearly they they all these different people reported it including our guy Schrager so I something happened but I don't I don't
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I don't know what it was. It almost feels like when the Turk and the Godfather is like, hey, let's meet Luca Brasi. We'll try to bring him over. And then all of a sudden, Luca's getting like the fork stabbed in his hand on the table and they're like strangling him. I wonder, like, is Belichick trying to pull a move on the Jets? Interesting. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I just don't think he would ever work for them. I just don't believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Would you take a call from Aaron Rodgers' media company? Hey, we want to hire you, Sal. Yeah, would you work for Aaron Rodgers?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Aaron, you know, he's misunderstood. I just don't believe it. I honestly think Bill Belichick would rather retire than work for the Jets. I don't believe it. And also, they don't have a quarterback. If he was going to be in the NFL, it would be to try to break the Shula record. He's like, good luck on that team. I just don't believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So I don't know why they had communications, but I don't think he was like, man, I hope I get this awesome Jets job. They haven't made the playoffs since 2012. Yeah. Well, they should just ask him. He'll tell the truth. I think this worked out great for him. This North Carolina thing. I know I did a pod on it the other day. The more I read and listen here, everybody like this is amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Louis, Missouri. This podcast is presented by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I have a new Rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did a Mark Wahlberg movie. It's now 10 years old. It's time to do it. The Gambler, a movie that has sucked Chris Ryan and I in, and we had to talk about it. And it's an interesting week to do that since I did not do well on my picks this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
He has this. He was already the greatest NFL coach ever. Now he could have this last act in North Carolina and like kick ass for them. It's cool. Everybody loves him there already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah. Well, it's also not like Jim Harbaugh going to Michigan and having to like build the whole thing and recruit people. And like college football now, you're just basically buying a team. Right. And you're just trying to outmaneuver people and steal people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
All right. The big game today was Detroit Buffalo. who are basically the same team, I realized as I was watching. I know Buffalo won, but need the lead, explosive offense, unstoppable, and can't get stops. So it's kind of like whoever is up 10-0, the game's over. And in this game, for whatever reason, Buffalo took the early lead, and then Detroit's playing catch-up after that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But it's a recipe that usually does not work to actually win the title. is my point. Like even, I read this stat. Here's a good stat for you. So Buffalo scored 30 plus in eight games in a row. Right? Pretty hard to do. The other teams who have done that, the 2000 Rams, 2007 Pats, 2010 Pats, and the 2013 Broncos. Zero Super Bowls with those teams. Wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So they'd be, you know, they always have a chance to break the trim, but I just feel like we've seen teams like this that are awesome offensively with an awesome player. But if you can't get stops at some point, that's killing you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Because it was terrible. Let's do it. It's a terrible decision. It's terrible because if it was a sneak onside kick with the old rules, I'm all for it. I get it. You have to announce it's an onside kick. So it's basically... Yeah, but you say it low.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
What is it? Like 6%, 7%, something like that? I know. So that's one out of every 12 converts. So they're basically saying their defense...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But you can check that out on Monday night on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can follow all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And you can catch up with us live when we do these Sunday night ones on which we also put on Spotify as video. Yeah, a lot of video stuff going on for us right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
can't stop buffalo's offense 11 out of 12 times and that an outside kick is better option than that there's no way you could tip a pass there's all different ways to stop an offense 11 out of 12 eight yards of play it's kind of the same thing right you probably look up and down nobody gets onside kicks we've seen like one recovered the whole year it's like you might as well freaking buy a lottery ticket i mean like the
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
If you're just doing percentages, it's no contest. Your defense, they could fumble a shotgun snap. They could drop a pass. All kinds of things could happen. Onside kick, it's basically a miracle. Um, so Detroit, the reason I picked them and lost was I thought they were going to run the ball down Buffalo's throat. And I don't know why I wouldn't have thought that because Buffalo can't stop the run.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Detroit's great at it. Detroit 15 carries for 48 yards. Yeah. Golf ends up throwing 59 times for four 94 and five TVs. But the team that ran the ball down somebody's throat was Buffalo. and they ran for almost 200 yards, including Allen. They ran for four TDs, 28 first downs, 559 yards. And this is what, you know, I get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
If you're picking Buffalo in this game, you're saying Detroit's defense cannot handle Josh Allen, and that turned out to be the correct answer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But lost this one. It's so stupid. The season's kind of screwy. It really is. Well, how about this? Buffalo, in the last two weeks, has given up 86 points, over 1,000 yards, and 53 first downs. In the last two weeks. I know the Josh Allen thing is super fun, but this is not how you win Super Bowls. And somebody's going to get them at some point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Unless he would have to be superhuman in a way very few guys in the history of the league have just thrown a team in their back, I think, to win with the defense he has. But Detroit's defense is worse. And they lost three more guys today. They lost McNeil. McNeil might be out for the year. So it's never been a better spot, I don't think, for...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
for this Eagles team that everyone gave up on, including me, three months ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Because they got Detroit last week of the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And a game that we had thought for weeks and weeks, that would be the game where Detroit rested everybody and Minnesota is going to be favored by 11 and a half. That's not happening. Yeah. Here's the bad news for Detroit. This is another stat I read. No team has ever allowed 45 points in a home game and then won the Super Bowl. Wow. So they did that today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
No, apparently not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But Cousin Sal is going to join in a second. We're going to talk about a rollicking Sunday. Just a bizarre set of early games. Then some late games that seem promising and then were disappointing, but weirdly, weirdly interesting for the season. And a whole bunch of other stuff, including parent corner. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are live.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
That's true. Well, on the positives for Buffalo. There's a mini, he's not good enough to be a Ewing Theory guy, but there's a little mini Ewing Theory case for Stefan Diggs now. They lose him and they're more exciting, more fun. Josh is having the best year ever. They beat Casey and they beat Detroit. That's good. That's good news.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I think the big thing for me, though, is I would have said eight weeks ago, Who is going to finish the season as the most exciting guy in the league? And Lamar would have been like a minus 1,000 favorite. Like Lamar, we talked about on this pod, like Lamar almost had to be on a multi-view screen because he's so exciting. And Josh kind of leapfrogged him, it feels like, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
He's the most exciting guy in the league now. I don't think Lamar even got less exciting, but the shit Josh is doing... It's like watching a senior in high school playing like the freshman team. Yeah. And he's just like, I'm going to fuck around. I'm trying to impress this girl in the stands. I'm just going to do some stuff. Yeah. And just like demolishing them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, the thing with Josh, I was thinking about like the great quarterback seasons. So since we were in college, 1989, only six quarterbacks have won MVP in Super Bowl in the same season unless I miss somebody. Mahomes was the last one in 22. Manning did it in 06. Oh, Manning didn't do it in 06 because Tomlinson won, so he's out. Kurt Warner, Favre, Steve Young in 94, and Montana in 89.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Brady never did it? My guy never had the MVP, but then also won. He won it in 07 and 17, but they didn't win the title those years. But then there's this different title. when somebody has a season like the one he's having that it's just like a memorable season. Like Rogers had that awesome 2011 season, but then the giants beat him in the playoffs. But that whole regular season is incredible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Cam had that awesome 2015 season. You know, Brady had that awesome Oh seven season that was like iconic. And then they lost anyway. And I wonder which camp is Alan going to be. And if I had to bet, I would probably bet. he's going to be in that Brady 07 side. Like, incredible, memorable, unbelievable season, but it wasn't good enough to win the Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I think it's a team that outscores them and gets the lead on them first and makes them play from behind, basically. It's not easy. I think that's how it would have to do. That's how it would have to happen. But the best teams are in the NFC. But yeah, you're right. This could be a year. It would be great. Did you pick them to win or you picked them to make? I picked them to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I picked them to beat the Lions. That'd be amazing for you. Certainly a tone for a lot of sins of predictions you made in August.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
That wasn't your fault. But yeah, I mean, the fun thing about Buffalo is that it's just super fun. But, you know, the Jim Kelly teams are also super fun. So at some point, we'll see if this can translate. But the thing that's been so cool about it is just...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It was like this thing, I remember I talked about it after Bill Walton died when I went to see him and he was talking about Larry Bird and he was talking about this last level when it's like not just the performance but the artistry of the performance and how you resonate with the crowd. It feels like Alan's gone to another level with some of this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Like he's just so great to watch on some of these plays. Like my wife was sitting down with me for like a quarter and she's just like, that guy's amazing. Is he the best guy in the league? I'm like, yeah, he actually is. Yeah, good call. But he's just like, he just jumps out of the TV now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, and, and for anybody who would say, no, he's been like this for a few years. He hasn't because he made turnover. He had a shitload of turnovers last year. He doesn't turn the ball over anymore. His decision-making is just way better this year. Yeah. Haley Steinfeld. Maybe that was it. He's got it all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Next game was Philly-Pittsburgh, which I stayed at the craps table one hand too long or one shoot too long with Pittsburgh. They were great to me this year. Pickens not playing. I like the under. The case for them was low scoring game. you know, rock fight 16, 14, 20. But what I didn't surprise was Philly moved the ball on them. Like they had some long ass drives and walk gets hurt at the end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
That was a bad boss for Pittsburgh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Did the ball for 40 minutes. Yeah. Did 26 first downs. They were 10 for 17 on third down. And the case for Pittsburgh in this game was their defense is going to be able to stand up to Philly, and they just didn't. With that said, the rookie fumbles the punt for Philly. Pittsburgh gets the ball. All of a sudden, they're on the three-yard line.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It is almost 8.30 Pacific time. Sal, this is the first time I've ever done a live podcast right after losing a 13-point tease. Oh, yeah. Because the Packers decided to just throw it late for a touchdown, and then the Seahawks just decided to hand the ball off the last three minutes. This is why you don't do 13-point teases, Sal. This is what I learned today. They're super dumb.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And then this goofy penalty happens where the guy keeps blocking after the whistle. Right. There's no more devastating penalty than the we're about to score. Oh, 15 yards. Now we're on the 18. It's it's a fucking gut punch. Yeah. So they they squander that. And then Najee fumbles when they're driving again. They have this great drive going and he just fumbles a pitch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And it really came down to to those two plays. I didn't feel like they were that far away from them. But Philly played better, obviously.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I in the back, back, back of my head, I was a little worried about the games today just because of how weird this stretches. We talked about in the ringer Sunday pregame where these teams play today, then Saturday, then Wednesday. There's four times. Right. And it's just I don't neither of us are going to understand just what the mentality is to be ready.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But no, you also have to be ready two more times over the next week and a half, basically. So I don't know. They didn't seem like Pittsburgh today. No, for sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
How would you, what would you call it? He's like the secret MVP. It's like when they don't have George Pickens, they just don't get three explosive plays a game. Right. I do think, I made a mental note watching the games today, like, just for the Super Bowl. you need to be able to run the ball and you need like three explosive plays a game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And if you can't do that, I think you're like an automatic cross off. Yeah. I mean, it's like they're only, yeah. Eagles, the Eagles can do it. That's, you know, and obviously Buffalo can too. Tampa chargers, which I wisely stayed away from Tampa drops 40 on the chargers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Mike Evans had a two-touchdown game, which is a fantasy playoff, so of course he was going to do that. Right. And then Cardinals-Pats, that was another West Lake gamer. Mm-hmm. There might be a mutiny with the Pats fans soon. The coaching is so bad. It's indescribable. I just can't believe it. And then the coach comes after the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
We have Drake May, third and one, fourth and one, like the key sequence of the game. And they don't sneak with him either time. And another time they had him in the shotgun on fourth and one. It's like this guy's almost 6'6". Like pretty sure we could QB sneak them. I know we can't block, but maybe take them. So they don't, they get stuffed and that flips the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I don't know how I kept winning them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And someone asked Mayo about it after. And he's basically like, yeah, I don't know what we were doing. Like it was literally like he just threw the OC under the bus. Then they asked Drake May about it, who seems to be the only person on the team who's devastated after every loss. He's just like crestfallen on the sidelines.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And they talked to him after and somebody asked him like, why don't they ever sneak you? And he's like, honestly, I don't know. I'm almost, I'm six, five. Like it's a play that's worked my whole career. I don't know why we don't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Jesus. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
He's unbelievable. For three quarters, they just hand off and have him throw bubble screens and do nothing that he's really great at. And then they'll fall behind by 20. And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, you should throw him down, wing it downfield. And then he's like, perfect 40-yard pass. You should roll out. It's like, oh, he does that. It's like, you just did that the whole game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I don't understand why they don't play with tempo. It's super frustrating. We have two good players because Gonzalez completely shut down Harrison.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Shut him down. They went to him multiple times. Shut him down. I didn't think it was a great win for the Cardinals because it actually felt like the game was a little closer. It's weird. I think they're the only team with seven wins, right? Or does Seattle have? I think they're the only ones. Seattle is eight. Oh, yeah, you're right. Arizona is the only seven win team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But we should talk about that because Seattle loses. And now we have the Rams losing. are in the three spot and Seattle's now out of the playoffs, which we were talking this morning. I have Seattle division, Seattle to make the playoffs, Seattle over like all that's, all that's a mess. Don't play. Um, I thought Seattle was going to be green Bay and was very bullish on Seattle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And I've liked green Bay the whole year, but I just, I just thought this was a Seattle week and green Bay finally played the game that I've felt like they could play the whole year. And that of course I had the other side. They were great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
The first two drives today, he looked like Terrell Davis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
They kind of wrote me in thinking their defense was good. And then Jacobs really big boyed them, I thought. And they gave up some big plays. They had a couple of bad pass interferences. They just played like shit. It's a Sunday night game at home. You're underdogs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
You need the game because the Rams miraculously beat Buffalo and beat the Niners in a five-day span, which the odds of that were probably 7-1. So then they have the Rams sitting there at 8-6, and they can't believe it probably. They're like, A, how are we 8-6? B, how are we leading a division?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, so the Rams, they lost to Miami by eight. They barely beat the Pats. And they lost to Philly by 23. They lost to Philly 37-14 in Week 12. And at that point, they were five and six. With Buffalo and San Francisco looming and Seattle in week 18, Arizona week 17, they beat New Orleans, which was a little closer than it was 21-14. That game was actually kind of close.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Beat Buffalo, beat San Francisco. Now they're playing Wash Rogers at the Jets next week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And have a legitimate chance now for like 11 wins. It's fucking crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Arizona is not good. And it wasn't just the couple of ways the Pats screwed up today. Kyler had his terrible Kyler pass that he does once a game. And he throws it right after we got stuffed on third and one and fourth and one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Kyler throws this jump pass and gets drilled as he's throwing it. We intercept it. We're on like their 15th. And they call a roughing the passer. Right. The guy's jumping up in the air to block the pass and then kind of just hits Kyler because he's trying to block it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, this was my first semi-ass-kicking in a long time. It's not bad, then. Four games I really liked, and I was just dead wrong on three of them. I disagree, though, because I thought the early games were so... Incompetent and awful and poorly played. And there were so many bad QBs and so much weird shit. I actually kind of enjoyed it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It was ridiculous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So the cards are seven and seven. And yet they barely... I know they didn't barely beat the Pats by the score, but I swear the Pats were weirdly in that game. They lose to Seattle twice in three weeks, and then we see Seattle just get the tar kicked out of them tonight. So I'm going to be selling on Arizona.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
No, I don't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Buffalo home for the Chargers. Kind of fun. I don't know in a million years how the Chargers could keep up with Buffalo points. They could probably play out like the Tampa game today. Yeah. Pittsburgh home for Denver. We didn't talk about that Denver game enough because Denver was super lucky. I'm sure like Knicks was terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Knicks had three picks, you know, and we talked about all the Colts stuff. Yeah. But Denver is going to be probably a six seed against Pittsburgh. Yeah. Or Baltimore, hopefully, but maybe Pittsburgh. Right, a Baltimore could pass him. And then Houston, Baltimore would be the 4-5 unless Pittsburgh and Baltimore flip. So Pittsburgh-Denver looks incredibly shaky to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And then so what's the maybe you put Lamar on the Sunday, this early Sunday game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So the NFC is would be right now Philly versus Washington. Solid Rams versus Green Bay. Excellent. And then Tampa, Minnesota, which I think is a good game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
That can't be the shakiest game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And then the interesting one is I think Amazon's getting the Saturday night game, which is usually like the best game. I don't know what that is with those six matchups. It's probably Rams-Green Bay, I would think, in L.A.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
The Rams have Jets on the road, Arizona and Seattle at home. Seattle is Minnesota at home, Chicago and the Rams on the road.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I think I hit everything. We didn't talk about Dan Quinn screwing up that Washington game and screwing up everybody's teases. I guess that was the last thing we didn't hit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I guess we should have known. Every TV something stupid was happening. And there were some of the worst quarterback play. I mean, who did we have in the early ones? We had Mack Jones. Mm-hmm. Levis. He got benched. Yep. Jameis, he got benched. Hainer got benched. Rattler, DeVito, Boyle. Bryce Young should have been benched. Cooper Rush, and Zombie Rogers. We're all playing on different TVs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So you don't think they could have spiked it in time? Because I actually think they could have spiked it with like a second left. Maybe. He could tackle like nine seconds left. But yeah, it was incredible that the clock, there's literally no reason for the clock to stop. Yeah. But then Quinn, they're up seven with the ball and it looks like they're running out the clock.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
McLaurin drops the touchdown or it sailed. I forget whose fault that was. I guess Daniel sailed it on him a little. Yeah. And it looked like that was going to be, and now all of a sudden they kick a field goal. God misses it. Now, freaking Spencer Rattler, he's coming back down. And all of a sudden, House is his last sentence.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
They haven't played a game that's impressed me in like two months. Right. You know, I mean, and you think like they had a couple wins there that they shouldn't have won. They could probably be three wins lighter, right? What's their record now? They're nine and five. They could easily be six and eight. Well, the Hail Mary game. There was that other stupid game. Yeah. And then this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Let's do Guess the Lions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Oh, let's do that quick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I just feel like the holiday season hasn't officially started until Mahomes has some sort of injury. Is that right? Yeah, he's got to start limping around. That's how he gets ready for the playoffs. It's like how a bear needs to sleep during the winter. Same thing. He needs some sort of limp, and then he's fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
You don't think Netflix throws him in a plane and gets him to Germany for all kinds of stuff to pump into his ankles?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
No question. Well, I agree with you because I guessed my Texans game assuming he wasn't going to play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Because... I think if it's a choice, you want to just wait. You can't play him in both if he's got a bad wheel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
We have to play the Chargers who can barely get to 20 points. Guess the lines. We have games Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and then Wednesday. This is an official don't get divorced stretch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Especially with the holidays. Yeah, they're really, really trying to fuck with our marriages now. They don't make it easy. Yep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Chargers home for the Denver Broncos. And I made the line Chargers by three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
You know, speaking of Tampa, that NFC South bet, which is one of the only futures I really truly care about because we made such a big deal about it. Yeah. NFC under 30 wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, I'll tell you that Tampa win, I didn't love it, but we are right now at 22 wins with three weeks left. And teams play each other, so I feel like I've clinched it. NFC East is at 29 wins. They're seven wins higher. This was one of our big bets before the year. We made FanDuel create this prop. NFC East, more wins than the NFC South, and it was minus 175.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
That was big.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yep. Chiefs-Texans in KC. And neither of us think Mahomes is playing. And I'm going to make Houston the favorite. I'm going to say Houston by one and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I said two. It is two and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I wonder how many times the Chiefs have been home dogs. Week 18.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
He can't play. No way. Andy Reid moved one win closer to Belichick, by the way. Where is he now? He is at... Hold on, let me get it. He is...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Do you want to do that? Now, I had this for later. Let's do the bad QB draft now. The Week 15 bad QB draft. Of everyone we saw today, and I have a 12-person list. Wow, okay. Who is your worst one today?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
271 he's 31 away and he's five playoff wins behind him too somehow the NFL yeah NFL will give him the record this year but yeah you've done enough it's fine please catch Belichick please catch Belichick we've decided to tamper with your salary cap space so you have more money to spend okay the other Saturday game Ravens Steelers
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
which I think I would have had Ravens by two and a half as recently as like three weeks ago. But I got to say Ravens by four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, tell the audience, what was our bet? It was division champs, Chiefs, Ravens, Bills? Chiefs, Ravens, Bills, Texans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It literally was stupid because we're losing. Yeah, it is. It's always stupid. Yeah, I think the Steelers are going to be, even if they have pickings, it's not going to be 100% pickings. but yeah, that's a lot of points to lay in a second time. They've played AFC North Raven Steelers game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I don't know. I was texting with the fantasy guys because Craig's a big Steelers fan during that game. And it was like Steelers bingo. It was hitting all the check marks of dumb penalty to pull them out of a touchdown. And TJ Watts hurt. It hit like nine of the check marks. Nodging. Yeah. The stupid fumble. Sunday marquee game. I think it's Eagles-Washington, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Isn't that our best Sunday game? We need to go Vikings-Seahawks. You would have said Minnesota-Seattle probably before tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Eagles going for 11 in a row. Second time they played. Their games are always weird. And it's in Washington. So I'm going to say Eagles by three and a half. Oh, man. Really? I said five. And you got it exactly. It's three and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Because these two teams play weird games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I think you should be. I think they had a little smoke and mirrors those first six weeks. Daniels has not been the same since he got hurt, whatever week that was. He was like lasers to everybody the first five weeks. Sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So I only have two watchable games and part of it is because we have two Saturday games that pulled two good ones out, but there's only two good games on, on, and these aren't even that good. One of them is Vikings at Seattle, which I, that's it for Seattle. I think if they lose and the Vikings are definitely going to be favored. I have the Vikings, uh, by three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Sam Howell against the Vikings defense would not make me feel good. No. So then the other one I have for a watchable, you're going to laugh, but Jags Raiders in Vegas. Really? All kinds of draft pick ramifications in this. Not that, I mean, does anyone even care past Sanders? No. People aren't going to care where Hunter gets drafted. Sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Will people care where the Boise State running back gets drafted?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah. All right. Jags at Raiders. This is probably the Raiders' last chance. This is a huge game for the Patriots. Because the Patriots aren't going to win again. We need Mac Jones to somehow pull off a win. But I have the Jaguars favored by two in Vegas. So that's what I had. I swear I did. And it's Vegas by one and a half. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I do not know who their quarterback is. Is it the Riddler?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I might bet this game. Fairly watchables. Bill's Patriots, I think has to be 14. So I'm going to say 14. Yeah, I went 16 and a half. It's 14 and a half. You get that. Five to four, you're up. One thing with the Pats, they have cheap touchdown potential at the end because that's the only time they kind of let May do his thing. They had another interception that wasn't his fault today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I don't know if you saw Boutte. Yeah. When he throws it to him. He did the receiver thing where he just flings it up in the air for the safety. That needs a name. That needs to be named after somebody. There had to be some receiver who did that better than anyone. Somebody's keeping track of these stats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
That guy fucked up and cost you an interception. Lions, Bears, and Chicago... With this Lions defense, I think putting high lines on them at this point is pretty risky. I'm going to say Lions favored by six and a half in Detroit. I mean, in Chicago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, here's another home dog for us. The Jets. Because they're going to be playing the Rams in Giants Stadium. Yeah. The Jets have been moving the ball a little more the last couple games. Now, granted, it's because of their opposition. But, you know, they're a little. I think Rodgers with the Enigma coming out soon. I think he just looks freer and happier.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I'm going to say the Rams by three and a half at the Jets. And this has all the makings of an everybody loses on the Rams bet. I see JJ picking them right now on the Sunday pregame show. Although I shouldn't talk shit because I got killed today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Don't blow this. Don't blow this, Rams. Come on. This has all the makings. The Rams... The next couple games, who do they have after this? They have... This is all West, right? NFC West for them after this? Yeah, they're home for Arizona-Seattle. Say, all right, we'll take care of the Jets. And then we got Arizona-Seattle. And then all of a sudden, they're down 10-0.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Garrett Wilson had a 90-yard touchdown. And Puka's going in the blue tent. Hopefully he doesn't. I'm not going to win for that. 49ers-Dolphins in Miami. I stared at this one for three minutes. You want another three? 49ers by one was where I landed in Miami. Oh, wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
See, that's why I knew I was off in some direction. Man. So mad. So mad. I just want to point out the dolphins aren't good. Maybe shouldn't be favored by two and a half over any decent team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Remember, we used to do that as a bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
What his career winning percentage was. I might have to bring that back. Not a bit anymore. Real shit. Yep. I was asking Lombardi because he came up with DJ Mikey Mack for McDonald's, like Shane Steichen. He reminded me we already came up with Thailand Shane for Shane Steichen. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's playing Madden on Twitch against somebody in Thailand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
He's like, I'm going to call a double pass reverse. Oh, no, I got picked off. Reset. Poopfecta, four games. There's some really bad games this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Because remember, we've already done Raiders-Jags, which is a Poopfecta, but I put it in the matchables. Falcons home for the Giants. I have Falcons by nine. What do you have?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
He really is the worst. Well, he's the worst in the sense that he tantalizes you with the potential of something that seems pretty awesome. That too. And then just pulls the rug out from underneath you. Today he had three picks and threw a pass that led his teammate right into an oncoming train, basically. And the game got stopped for 20 minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Colts-Titans. Another one I don't really want to watch any minutes of. It's in Indianapolis, and I had the Colts favored by five and a half. That's what I had. It's four and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, that's a bad one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Cardinals at the Panthers. It's another one. Just be careful with this one. My friends, I have Cardinals by three and a half. That's what I had to four. It's four and a half. Vegas on. Man, they're throwing Vegas on getting sacked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Two Vegas sons in a row. I don't know if we could do a pre. By the way, Cleveland, Cincinnati is fairly watchable. Jameis is fairly watchable the rest of the way. Yeah, I'll move that up. I'll move that up to the fairly watchable. The Browns are really bad, though. Poor Nick Chubb broke his foot today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
You love the Bengals. I don't put bad teams in teases. Sunday night also stinks. Bucks at Dallas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
You would have been making yourself crazy. So good. McCarthy won his job back, though. Is that the Belichick shadow hanging over him now? Well, that's going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Sunday night, Tampa at Dallas. I have Tampa by four and a half. Hmm. I get this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So we have seven home underdogs next week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I might scale it back. Didn't have a great week this week after an unbelievable run. Monday night, Packers, Saints.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I have Packers by 11 and a half. I don't know if it's Saints.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I've been on this bandwagon the whole time and he's been a divisive guy since college and the Dolphins fans are really protective of him. But to me, everything has to be perfect. And every play and situation and the teammates and he's got to throw the ball within two seconds and it's got to be a quick slant. And every once in a while, a receiver is just going to get crushed over the middle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I guess I should have just said that because it's never 11 and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It just got way out of the Seahawks by 15 and a half plus 15 and a half. Come on. Couldn't hit that. Let's do parent corner. What do you got?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And then every once in a while, he's just going to throw the ball to the other team and the weather has to be good. And in a dome, he's great. And it's all these excuses. It's like if you hired like a personal chef who is a pizza chef. Yeah. And you were like, but I, you know, I don't want to eat pizza seven days a week. And the guy's like, OK.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I'm telling you now, I'm putting him in seven parlays with NFL teams. Every team I like, I'm just putting Usyk in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Him and Pereira are the two most reliable comeback guys on the planet. I'm just going to keep doing it until one of them loses.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Is there a good undercard too? There's a couple good... Is there on this? I thought there was at least one good fight before it. My guy Bacoli is not fighting until January, though. Yeah, what happened there? He's not even on that great card. I know. Yeah. I know. Anyway. So my daughter's come back from college actually late tonight. And my wife was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
was ordering all this food to pick up because we need, my son's a weird eater, my daughter's the weirdest eater ever. She wanted to get food and she's like, you know, the maggots coming home. And we realized that we have nicknames for everyone in my family that happen organically based on eating habits.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So we call Zoe the maggot because she's that one that's like with the slice of pizza, you just look down and there's just like the cheese is gone. Or like there's a piece of sourdough toast and just all the stuff around the crust is just gone. You're like, oh, the maggot must've gotten it. My wife has always been the rat because it'll be like slice of pizza or a bagel on the counter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And just like a very small, almost imperceptible part of it is missing. And you're like, I thought that was like a bigger pizza slice. And she's just carefully cut like one eighth of it off. So we always call her the rat. Like she rats it up. It's good. And then my son is the raccoon because he like never eats. And then he goes downstairs. Everyone's asleep at like 1130. And.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
just starts you know all of a sudden all this food's gone and you're like oh my god the fucking raccoon got in the kitchen again so then I was like so what's my nickname then and she's like you're just like a bear you just eat a lot and then you sleep And I was like, I feel like that's insulting. I'm just the bear? Yeah, hell yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And it's not like I'm like a... But I guess that's how it... Because I have like big... You know, I don't eat a lot and then I'll have a big dinner. So she said I'm the bear. You're the bear? I guess I'm the bear. Tell her you want a second opinion. I feel like... Can I be like a panda? Yeah, you have to be a specific bear or something. What's an animal that just kind of basically...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
that snacks during the day once or twice and then has like a big dinner. That's what every animal I am. I don't know who that is. And is the clogger taken? You can't tell you how it's taken. So our fridge is like, you know, my daughter comes home and there's like four different coffee-made creamers because she likes to make these homemade lattes that she drinks two sips of.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And then like day five, it's like, hey, I made a pizza again. It's like, yeah. Like, what about chicken? Anything like could you eat? Can you make a soup? No, no. I actually whipped up this really good meatball pizza. And at some point he's just serving pizza. And that's to him. He's serving pizza day after day after day in these games. I just think he's a 500 or worse quarterback.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
So all of a sudden the fridge has like this thing. My son has all the weird food he eats and it's just like a free-for-all. So anyway, it's good to be back. The Simmons family is back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Stuff's crammed in. There's coffee made on top of like, you know, my son's kelp noodles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It's very possible. Did you see Evil Jason Bateman in Carry On yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, he was evil in Ozark, right? I said he wasn't on the poster. I didn't know he was in the movie. I started watching it and it was like, there's Jason Bateman. It's like, you didn't tell me Jason Bateman was in this. That feels like it's a big deal. It's definitely him, huh? Maybe he didn't want to know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, I don't. Can't say when I was there for 30 for 30 that the Jet Sack Exchange was on any of the master list for ideas. Just leave it at that. All right, so what do you got to plug?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It worked out way better than that because with him at Lombardi as a combo and I don't have a college football team. So now like I actually have a college football team I would genuinely care about. Awesome. I'll bet on their over. I'll put bets in. So I carry even more. I'm going to be all in. I'll wear it. They're going to be good. I was looking at hats on fanatics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I couldn't find the right hat. I got to find the right hat. Because it feels like it's got to be like the light blue with just the logo, but I couldn't find one that I liked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, we've been going for 80 minutes and you didn't bring this up. So you had the Ravens just straight, straight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I get so worried with those games where you cannot come up with a single incentive for the heavily favored team to even care in the game. Oh, I see. That's what I get worried. Off a bye.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah. I think him going to Vegas or the Giants, I just think is just for us, for people who want content. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Isn't what makes him special that in college he can do both sides, but in the pros, that's completely unrealistic?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It would seem like the move would be to play him a cornerback and then bring him in for third down and eights. Gadget plays. Special gadget plays. Yeah. Almost using him like the old Percy Harvin kind of model.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Cuz, good job by you. Great to see you as always. Thanks to Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti. And then we didn't have Gahow today, but Richter. John Richter. John Richter. Got rewatchables coming on Monday night. We did The Gambler, ironically, with Mark Wahlberg. Oh, you son of a bitch. That's a good one. And then we'll be back next week. Sal, good job by you. See you later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Thanks, everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Well, Chang would say one-day-old Krispy Kreme is one of the most delicious desserts. Oh, he puts it in a pan with the ice cream. He pans it, pan fries it. He's a magician. That's not fair. Yeah. Yeah, there's this place in LA I don't want to name, but it's a donut place. And you walk in and when you go in to buy donuts, you're like, oh, I'll just... Can I get a half dozen donuts? You think...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Do you make the donuts individually? It's like a weird foofy LA thing. I know what you're talking about. Where it's like, no, no, tell us what donut you made and then we're going to make it right and it's going to be like fresh for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And then you're in the donut shop for 10 minutes and by the time the donut comes out, it's like I could have already put down like two sprinkled donuts by the time I was waiting for this donut. Maybe that's Tua. I don't know. It's called Tua's. It's Tua's of LA. I just want the Dolphin fans to admit deep down they know. Like stop defending this. Just stop.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Like I was big on Mac Jones for that first year when he was a rookie and he made the playoffs and he played in the Pro Bowl. And I was like, this guy's a game manager. He can do it. And he just got worse and worse. And eventually you just have to give up and say, you know what? I was wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
The Bill Simmons. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. Sports fans, I know going to the big games can get expensive, so let's talk strategy. Let's talk how PayPal has changed the playbook. Now you can pay everywhere, online, in-store. either or both with the PayPal debit card. That's right, earn a 5% cash back up to $1,000 every month in the category you choose, like apparel and groceries.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Mac Jones is not a starting QB, which I then thought again today, as I watched him today, Mac Jones, not really a starting QB. Two is not somebody that's going to win three playoff games in a row ever at any point in his career. There's no situation where that's going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
No, I like it. It's a passionate trap. My daughter's boyfriend, huge Dolphin fan, when we text all the time about Tua, and he vacillates between defending Tua, but then also... getting mad when he has games like he had today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, I know. My number one is this Hayner person that played for the Saints today who lasted about, I don't know, a half. And then they were like, you know what? Maybe Spencer Rattler is better than you. Like, I don't know how bad Spencer Rattler is that he lost the competition to Hayner, but Hayner was in there for a brief period I don't know, what, an hour and a half against Washington?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Too long. Nothing was happening. And we knew a bunch of people that had Washington in teases, and it just seemed like you were in safe hands with Hainer. Then Rattler comes in and it's worse for Hayner because it's like, oh no, Rattler's in. Uh-oh. So I would have Hayner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Oh my God. Well, it's so funny. Like the first year at Grantland, we did the bad QB draft. We created this whole scoring system. Jacoby wrote a piece about it every week. He did all the scoring. And the premise was like, there's just so many, this is the glory days of bad QBs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
But you would think at some point it would get better and it just hasn't, you know, like three point shooting got better in basketball and in baseball, like pitchers throw faster and you know, there's more strikeouts, like things change. And for whatever reason, quarterback play has not changed in football.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Who's your next pick?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
I'm just laughing because I knew who you were going to take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
He's number two for me. Well, did you see Titans-Bengals today? It was the first game with 10 turnovers and 20 plus penalties since 2006. Wow. 18 years since we've had that kind of incompetence. And you could feel it. If you had multiple TVs and that was one of the games, you could feel the incompetence. So he had three interceptions and a pick six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
as one of the three, which maybe we call the Levis from now on. He would have had more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Yeah, they should have explained to Brian Callahan the full DeLome and how important that is. What was that? Five picks, including a pick six, was the full DeLome. Yeah, go for the record. He's bad, but that's one of those things where we knew he was bad last year. My fault.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Think about it. That's like getting cash back when you're picking up your game day snacks or grabbing a drink with the crew after the big game. I'm talking about real savings, like that energy drink keeps you hyped for the big game cash back. 17th, purchase a merch from your favorite team cash back. Post-game extra large pizza, you order like clockwork. You get the idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
No, no. But I'm saying the Titans, they get rid of Rabel. They're bringing this new coach. The GM wins this power struggle because Will Levis is his guy, new coach, and now they need a QB. Congrats. Um, can I have Boyle and DeVito as a combo for my next pick? Sure. A dual entry. Sure. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
You could have, I couldn't at one point they changed QBs and I just couldn't tell the difference on my, cause I had, they were on a TV that had no sound. I had no idea that DeVito even left to the concussion. Impossible to say. DeVito does this after every play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
No, you understood how bad it was because he was rolling out and he was four yards behind the line of scrimmage. Right. And the guys were coming and he was going to do the Zach Wilson where he's just going to chuck it out of bounds. And instead he did like the stutter step out of bounds and then seemed like he talked shit to one of the defensive linemen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
And it was just like, you lost four yards for literally no reason. There was no reason to lose four yards in that play that any of us could think of. But it's funny, like, having watched him as he... I swear he was really solid as a rookie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
It's not even... It's like comparing a Ferrari to, like, a Cherokee.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
now sure it is now no why what was always like an awesome suv that you could go cross country with and the stereo was going to work and right you know we always knew what he was but it was like can you be this awesome game manager and um just kind of not make mistakes and be smart but the stuff that he was doing today it was all stuff he did the last two and a half years for the pats
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal
Just the inexplicable sailing it over somebody's head. The terrible red zone stuff. Just missing a wide open guy. The scramble out of bounds for no reason. It is who he is.
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Over the last five seasons, the 2020s, they're 51-33. It was like, you would never think if you said to somebody who is the best team in the NFC this decade, I don't think they would have been a top four guest for anybody, but I think they are. It's either them or Philadelphia. They have a better record and more playoff wins.
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And then the loss today, like, you know, I think they would have had a chance in round two against whoever they played. But the Mayfield thing, When you think about, he goes to Cleveland, plays for four coaches his first three seasons. He wins their first playoff game with that franchise, right? Since they came back.
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He tore his labrum in his left shoulder, second game 2021, has the year from hell. They end up paying him to go away, 11 million in Carolina, and go into the Sean thing. And now Baker, he's not a top five quarterback, but he's in the top 10 or 11. And you just think, like, this whole thing is one of the biggest disaster decisions start to finish in the history of the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
And we make fun of the South every year. It's our fault. Yeah. The thing, if you're talking about just QB assets and we always talk about a rookie QB, how that's the best asset you can have, but they have him, his contract compared to the other monster contracts where every other superstar is making 50, 55 million a year, whatever they're on the cap for.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I think he signed for like 30, 30 plus a year, something like that. So definitely a better asset. Anyway, that was a great game for for the weekend because up until that point, it felt like it was the worst weekend ever for a variety of reasons, real life reasons, the actual games. It was just one of those weekends you're like, Man, I used to love round one.
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And this time I feel stupid watching football.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends.
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Yeah, weirdly the NBA might be in the best shape for a round one this year because they have so much talent and they have some teams in the 7, 8, 9, 10 range that the play-ins will be fun. Now you're mad at me about the Sacramento.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, because I saw your mind go to the Sacramento, Indiana, Minnesota bet we made.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The Sacramento under, Indiana over, and the Minnesota under. And after we did it, Sacramento fired their coach. And now they're just pulling games out of their ass. Game after game after game. Let's take a break and we'll talk about the other games. I hope you're using FanDuel for the NFL playoffs right now. All customers can get a no-sweat NFL same-game parlay for the Vikings versus Rams game.
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Opt-in required, minimum three leg parlay required. Refund issues as a non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply, including token expiration. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by the White Lotus season three.
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One of my favorite shows, beautiful locations, twisted characters, unexpected scenarios. The White Lotus is going to Thailand. You know, I'm excited. I mean, we're doing prestige TV again, me, Mallory and Joanna Robinson. We're doing right after every show, putting a recap episode on the prestige TV, same luxury, new reservations for all of us. How are they going to make the show better?
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The answer is the show's great no matter where it is. I'm excited to be in a new country with our weird, mysterious, probably creepy White Lotus gang, but I love this show. And you can watch a new season of the Emmy Award-winning HBO original series, The White Lotus, premiering February 16th at 9 p.m. on Max. All right, so our schedule before we get to the rest of the games.
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We have Houston and Kansas City. That's an ESPN game. On Saturday, it's the first one. We need a name for the round two first game on Saturday. It's not a Shakey's game, but it's a better restaurant that... you know you can probably rent a table for... Get a table for like $20, $25. You wouldn't exactly have your wedding reception there, but it's serviceable and solid.
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It's kind of exciting, but not totally. I don't... I also don't want to insult any possible sponsors we might get, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I did not have a podcast for you on Tuesday and Thursday last week for obvious reasons. It was the worst week ever.
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Kyle says the Texas Roadhouse game. Texas Roadhouses are fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was going to say the Bianco Pizza game, but I don't want Bianco to be mad at me. Because Bianco could do like a pizza pop-up. But you might take that personally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Even though I'm complimenting it because I love Bianco Pizza. Houston at KCESPN. Then Saturday night, Washington at Detroit. Sunday, NBC. Either Minnesota or the Rams playing in Philadelphia. So we get Collinsworth in Philadelphia. Oh, Mike, it's so cold. My nipples are frozen, Mike. I can't even feel my nipples.
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Baltimore at Buffalo. So the storylines, I guess, would be Casey going for the three-peat. It officially starts now. Jaden Daniels and the exciting, rejuvenated Washington Commanders against the team that's really been America's team this year, the Detroit Lions, where they've just been on every week. We like watching them. We know all the characters at this point.
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Dan Campbell's like the dad in a Friday sitcom. Then, I don't know. What's more fun? Minnesota, Philadelphia, or Rams, Philadelphia? Probably Minnesota-Philadelphia, right? For the history of some of the games they've had?
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And then Baltimore Buffalo is the great. That's it. That's what's decided. You rarely get this. You get this in basketball sometimes. You rarely get this in the NFL where it's like, we've argued about this all year. I think it's been a fun argument. I don't feel like it ever degenerated anything bad. I'm still not positive who I think the MVP is. Like I left on the weekend.
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I'm like, I don't, I, both of those guys were awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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In the history of Southern California, there was just so much devastation, so much heartache, so much fear, so much terror. And ultimately, everything about it was awful. And some people stepped up, fire department, police department, first responders, TV reporters on the ground, helicopter pilots dropping water.
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All right, the game before the good game was Packers-Eagles, which was a classic Philadelphia win where they're up 10-0 and their fans are just complaining. And the game has no flow. You don't really understand what's going on. I actually watched with a couple of Eagles fans today and they're cutting to A.J. Brown. He's reading a book at one point because he's pissed off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's not getting the ball. Everyone's like, what's wrong with Hurts? Is he healthy? What's going on with him? And they just kind of limped their way to a convincing win that was never in doubt. And they went by double digits and they, you leave the game and you go, what just happened? Are the Eagles good? I'm not, it's just was typical.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They've really made it seem like it's now a reality show where it's like season 41 of the challenge. Just put 10 guys in a pile. Whoever has the ball when we pull everybody apart, they get the ball. I texted you a couple of times over the weekend. I watch football every weekend. I feel like I understand all the rules. I still don't understand what an intentional grounding is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
CJ Stroud, that was one of the biggest plays in that Chargers game. It just seemed like a cut and dry intentional grounding. And they're like, Now I got it over the line of scrimmage and he was out of the pocket.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
He was two feet to the left. How was he out of the pocket? It just seemed like an automatic. He definitely did an intentional grounding because he was about to get sacked. So they said it wasn't. And then I always felt like if the guy clearly had the ball in the pile before he disappeared into the pile, usually the guy gets the ball back. Of course.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
But this time they were like, nope, he didn't totally have it yet. It's like, he didn't? Seemed like he had it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't understand. I've said this over and over again, watching them. I don't understand their offense. I don't understand why it's so slow and deliberate and has no pace and has no pep and just seems laborious at all times. I don't get it. I don't understand. We were joking about it in the first quarter. We're watching like, here we go. 39 seconds to the next Saquon handoff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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This would be 37 seconds. And it's just, they play with no pace. They, they play with no unpredictability at all. They never try to put any sort of pressure. You'd think like if you have Saquon as a running back with Hertz's ability to run and pass and the receivers they have, you could almost go no huddle and just put a defense, you know, put them on their back pedal. They don't do anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
They're just like, don't do all your subs, get all your guys in and out, do what you need to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
all of the people in various communities who banded together to get toiletries and extra clothes and all kinds of things people need if their house has just burned down or they've been evacuated. So there was some good that came out of some awful. And it was as awful as it gets. And I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I wasn't sure that we should do a podcast today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So, I don't know. I actually rewound it. It seemed like the D-back had an angle and maybe could have chased him down 30 yards downfield. But yeah, he definitely slid a little early. There was a couple moments today with covers and over-unders because you had that play. You had Matt Collins about to go. He's setting up the bills on the two-yard line. Terrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Next touchdown covers, every tease and adjusted over if you had 41, 42, whatever. And then what was the other one? Was that the Baltimore-Pittsburgh just ending at 42 points? That felt like that could have been harder, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Oh, and then the Chargers-Texans game somehow going over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. Well, and he's not even... When they're celebrating at the end, he seems on the side. He's such a polarizing guy within the Eagles... Like I know a lot of Eagles fans, none of them have a handle on him at all, but yet they've been winning and they've been successful with them. Right. But you watch and it's just, I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
There there's, when you look at like what we saw from Allen and Mahomes in somewhat similar offensive situations from a weapon standpoint, and they're just so electric and I guess Hertz just doesn't have that. level in him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Read inner excellence, but borrow a copy from AJ Brad. I was thinking Eagles fans. Cause they've, the team has been successful. But they also love complaining about them, and I don't really blame them. But it's like the friend who's married to the guy that you always feel like they're going to get divorced, and they're never divorced, but she's always complaining about him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That's kind of the Eagles fans with this team. Yeah, you'd think they'd root for the Panthers all these years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Didn't you go 13-4? Green Bay was kind of the hipster Super Bowl contender this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They were like the alternate pick. I know we had money on them. We both loved Detroit with the one seed and some Super Bowl bets. But then Green Bay was kind of the, well, here's plan B if the Detroit thing doesn't work out. They ended up going 0-6 against Philly and Minnesota and Detroit. And this was more alarming to me. I'm throwing out the Brazil game in week one because that game was stupid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're playing it. I don't understand what that field was. In the other games against those three teams, they fell behind by 21 to Minnesota, by 17 to Minnesota. They fell behind 21 to Detroit. They were down 10 to Detroit, and they were down 10 today, 10-0. This was them against any good team. They just immediately spotted 10, 12, 17 points, whatever it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And there was a couple of times where they would kind of come back. What changed today was they lost Watson before the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
And then they lose two more weapons. So they couldn't even do the comeback thing that Love was pretty good at. I thought Love had a really bad year for what my expectations were. If my expectations were an A minus, I thought he was like a C plus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Sal and I have reacted after round one, really since 2007. And I don't know if we should have done a podcast, but we decided we wanted everything to feel normal again for an hour. So we decided to talk football and we talked about California at the tail end. But I wanted to just give my best to everybody out there who's been affected by this in some way because... I just can't believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, they beat up Miami on Thanksgiving. There was that Thanksgiving and the week after. We should remember this for next year because there was a moment where Green Bay looked like the most dangerous NFC team. Pittsburgh looked like they had the one seed locked up. They had already beaten Baltimore. They had a two-game lead. They, I think, were 10-3.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it just felt like they were going to be 13-3. They never won again. They were 10-3 and... And that was it. I think they lost their last five and just completely fell apart. We can talk about that later. But yeah, those were the two teams that I think really fell off. And then conversely, Washington came back. I think because Daniels got healthy was probably the main reason for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then Houston died. And then... Just randomly, their defense came back at some point during that Chargers game, which we're going to talk about in a second. But I think those were kind of the variance teams. I guess the Chiefs might have been the other one because the Chiefs were looking so creaky there. And we were like, this offense, they're just going to be able to score 20 points anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then they gradually figured that out. Everything else just kind of went toward what we thought.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, one thing on Green Bay, because I want to move to Bills and Steelers. I thought their D was good. And I thought they did a good job today. I thought Jacobs was good. Earl Campbell run, his old jersey coming apart. It's fun. I like Watson as a player, but I don't think it should be a dramatic difference. I like their tight ends, Kraft and Musgrave.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know what... I don't remember... I don't know if Musgrave was hurt or if he played or what happened, but...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
If you pause in a playoff game and the road team is getting the opening kickoff and fumbles on the kickoff. It's almost like the live bet. You almost want to bet everything on the other team no matter. It just feels like the worst omen possible for the rest of the game. But the bottom line is Jordan Love wasn't good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And there's probably some reasons for it that have to do with some of the weapons being gone. But he made some really bad throws. And I never felt like last year, especially in the playoffs, it felt like he was elevating. I didn't feel that way at all down the stretch here.
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Let's take one more break and then we'll do Bills and Steelers. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Winning is a great feeling, but let's be honest, it's even better with a prize like Michelob Ultra Superior Light Beer. And that's exactly what you'll get with Play You for an Ultra on DoorDash.
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You can challenge your friends to a game racer match and send the winner a Michelob Ultra because Superior is always worth playing for. Participate and play you for an ultra and send the winner an ultra through DoorDash today. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser-Busch McGlobe Ultra Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 or older to order alcohol.
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Alcohol available only in select markets. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into. It makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of Prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that.
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I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. All right, so I'm lumping Bill's Broncos and Steelers Ravens together because, This whole season. Cause everyone else did on a teaser.
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Cause we, we did on teaser. It was the, we call it the anchor tease or the anchor parlay, whatever you wanted. Yeah. My favorite was either these eight or eight and a half point teases you could do with them on a, on FanDuel and basically put anyone else you want, move the line eight points, eight and a half points. It's right around even odds.
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And I don't think, I know you can see it from the video and the pictures, but I don't think you can fully believe how awful this is. So hopefully we can get through it. Hopefully we can rebuild it. Hopefully there's a light at the end of the tunnel here, but right now it's hard to see. So anyway, we're going to talk some football. We're not going to start with Pearl Jam.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it just seemed like a free way to gain eight points with everybody. It won with Tampa. It didn't win with the Chargers. It won with Houston. It won with Washington.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Look, there's a lot of storylines for the year. Washington and Jaden Daniels, the Lions, the Vikings coming out of nowhere, the Chiefs going for a three-peat. There's a lot going on. But this Josh versus Lamar thing ended up being the most fun thing to argue about. And as I said earlier, I never thought it got ugly because both guys have been great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And what's cool is both guys peaking at the right time. So today, Buffalo rushes 44 for 210. And experimented with putting like the sixth offensive lineman out there as a tight end and just like bully balled their way through the first half. And then Baltimore yesterday, 50 carries for 299. Buffalo had the ball 41 minutes. Baltimore at 39-33.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So two teams that love having the ball, running it down your throats, playing each other with two magical quarterbacks who also in the playoffs run the ball more. This is like one of the best games of the decade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Denver was going to make us sweat it out in the first quarter. That was just the law. There was just too much. And then I was thinking about if you tease them and Buffalo could win by one, but you still don't cover the tease. There are all these different ways. But then Buffalo was like, we got this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think combining the two of them, I think they're the two best how do you stop this offenses we've had in a while. And I'm not ready to talk about them historically, and one of them might score seven points next week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But just when you're watching the moment in these playoff games, now that these quarterbacks don't have to worry about saving their bodies to the playoffs and can actually run and try to do stuff. Daniels was like this too with Washington. I just don't know what the move is when it's like third and four. It's like you almost have to guess what the play is, Tecmo Bowl style. Charge Allen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's still going to stiff arm the first guy, roll out, and try to hit somebody side-armed as he's rolling. And then Lamar is just like, he's like covered in grease. Even if you stop him, he's going by you. So I don't...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We're just going to get to the five games. Then we're going to talk California at the end of the podcast. So that's the plan. Here we go. We're taping this a little after 8.15 Pacific time. Definitely the worst week either of us have had since we moved to LA. And we're going to talk about all the awful California stuff later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Allen had a play in the first half when he was going around the corner and the guy knew what he was doing. And it was, I think it was a third down and the guy basically beat him to the spot. And Alan just went around him, went down the sideline and got eight, took a guy on, knocked him over too. Instead of like put his Jersey down over the puddle so that Alan could step over it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's getting ridiculous. But, but it's just, both of those guys just have these, oh my God. How do you stop this? Now, Baltimore might not have Zay Flowers next week. That's not nothing. Buffalo seems like they have their full team and they really feel like they've, they've every, I don't know where they got this offensive line from that. You know, we did a lot of prep before the year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I remember liking certain things about their team and definitely they had an offensive line was one of the strengths. Now it feels like one of the best three offensive lines in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, he's had like 15 touchdown catchers this year. I guess the difference is Baltimore is built to stop the run. They're really good at it. They're number one in the league. Buffalo is not. So if you're going to say, all right, both of these teams are going to go bully ball, I think Baltimore has a better chance to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Baltimore yesterday, as they broke Pittsburgh's spirit completely and totally, they had that 13-run, 85-yard touchdown drive where they did not pass, which is just a fuck you. Yeah. Honestly. That's just, you're just pulling it out at that point and just, and waving it around like a fucking lasso. 13 runs in a row. Hey, hey, hey, Tom Lynn, have some of this. Like, it's such a fuck you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
It really is. Like, not one pass. That's just like, you're like, let's break these guys. They're off. Hey, he's telling Harbaugh like, hey, I was thinking about just calling runs over and over again until we score just to fuck these guys. He's like, yeah, do it. Go for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, we were betting on them over and over again, and they were overachieving and looking great. And the Philly game was when it turned. They got their asses kicked by Philly, and we all said, ah, stayed at the craps table a game too long on that one. It felt like that three days and 11 days, three games and 11 days kind of broke them. I was thinking about possible excuses for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We'll start with football and then we'll circle back around because there's a lot to cover on that. But we want to hit the... The football first, as weird as that sounds, Sal. We had four really lousy games and then a really good one. Tampa-Washington. Washington wins their first playoff game in 20 years and it ends up being a doink that puts it over the top.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The three days and 11 days somehow didn't break Baltimore, Casey, or Houston. They all gained strength of it, but I guess Pittsburgh could blame it. Russell Wilson maybe is like a house guest that just kind of stays too long. It's like fun to have in the guest room for two months. Yeah. Month three, it's just leaving the fridge open and you're like, oh man, this guy. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Gotta get off the couch. All right. Tomlin, 18 years, the 18 year itch. I don't know if that's a, is that a thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No. Was that wrong? Yeah. You were wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Come on. Well, in the moment, was that wrong?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
My whole point was they're the best team right now. December or whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I'm not blaming you. That's fine. I'm going to wipe my tears. I went 27-5 and over under his handkerchief. Oh, wow. You have that? So I looked at their last six playoff losses for Pittsburgh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Gave up 36 points to the Pats. 45 to the Jaguars, 48 to the Browns, 42 to the chiefs, 31 to Buffalo last week. And then, uh, 28 to the Ravens this week, which really could have been more if the Ravens wanted to score more. Tom was supposed to be this like awesome defensive coach. We always talk about the ugly 18 to 16 games in January. It just goes away. What happens?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I thought the first two months, I thought they had the best defense in the league. Yeah. As the... DJ Watt got hurt at one point and it never felt like he was totally the same. They had some secondary injuries. But the first two months, they were like the flying around defense. And that... Who was calling him out? Who was the announcer for that Pittsburgh game? It was... Not Collinsworth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
This week? Oh, it's Herbstreet. Herbstreet, yeah. Was... You know, he's not exactly like Mr. Supercritical. He was like calling them out in the first half. It's like, it's a playoff game. Where's the fight from this team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Something weird happened. I don't know what happened with this team, but whatever we saw the last five weeks was not what we saw in the first three months from them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Yes, for the Patriots. The Steelers, they famously only had three coaches in 130 years or whatever the thing is. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I think they go in for the after-the-season meeting with the owner, and they're like, what happened this year, Mike? And he's like, I don't know. We paid $3 million for our quarterbacks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That did not make up for the other four games from an entertainment standpoint, but really entertaining. I'm wondering, is Washington this season, they're not the best team, but they're kind of the Daniel Bryan team Uh, Brett hit man heart. Like you always have a good match when you're in a, in a match with Washington. They're one of those teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Interesting. Now, if Darnold shits the bed again tomorrow, he might not be available anymore. Right, right, right. Darnold could go from two weeks ago, we were talking about why won't they just pay him now? And now two weeks, safety sucks again. I'd be like, well, at least they have JT.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's not a ton of options for them. That's not a bad thought. The other guy, they could trade for Joe Milton. I'll send them some week 18 Buffalo Pats game tape. Joe Milton lighting up the Bill's second string, pretending it, you can pretend it was the first string. Chargers, Texans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It was AI Shakey's. AI created a Shakey's broadcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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6-0, charges are up after they just gave away possible touchdowns on two straight drives. The Texans are an absolute mess. Third and 16, they snap the ball over Stroud's head. And it seems like it's either going to be a safety, a touchdown, something great. This is right after the intentional grounding, they don't call.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And he picks it up, rolls out, everyone's charger stops, throws it to midfield, and immediately turns it to a different quarterback. And from that point on, the Texans never look back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So was that for you? Is that a Houston is so resilient there that nobody believes in us game? Or is that a we might never get there with Justin Herbert game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're not going to win the title, but they've been the most fun team this season, right? They've been in the most fun games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Everything was going their way and he still couldn't close the game. Five years, zero playoff wins. He's three games over 500. You include the playoff games, he's one game over 500. I was actually researching quarterbacks who never won a playoff game and the best one ever is Y.A. Tittle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Interesting. Had some, was in some big spots, apparently never won one. And then Andy Dalton was the other one. Andy Dalton never won a Shakey's game? Never won. 0 for 5. But the famous one was Stafford. First 12 years, 0-3 in the playoffs, never won anything. So maybe this is a Stafford type thing, but it's really unusual for a guy this talented to, to not win. So you have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then you have, you know, we used to joke about the Delome. The Delome was, was four picks with a, with the fumble. And then the Delome, the full Delome, I think was five picks with a fumble. And one of them had to be a pick six or something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But I think people used to throw interceptions way more in the old days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Todd Marinovich had one. Jim Kelly. Richard Todd. Joe Ferguson. Tommy Kramer. The one we watched together, the first Super Bowl we watched together, Tampa, Oakland. Oh, yeah. Rich Gannon, five picks, three pick sixes. So that was, I guess the full Gannon is five picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So only three guys have thrown five picks with an interception, DeLome, Gannon, and Kramer. The last two to do it were Brian Hoyer in 2016 and Carson Palmer the same year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He did the four with the... He had the pick six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I think you move pretty quickly into, I got to get this guy more than one receiver. There's a nerd case for blaming the offensive coordinator and the play calling, but the football nerds love Justin Herbert no matter what he does. Here's the bigger question to me. Quarterbacks you'd rather have for the next eight years than Justin Herbert.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So take it to 2033. It's really just that? I'll list them to you and you tell me when to stop. Yeah. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow. Take all four of those, right? Yeah. Would you take Jaden Daniels?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Come on. Let's see a little something else. If the charge is off for Justin Herbert, for Drake May straight up, fuck yeah. What are you talking about? Rather have Drake May in a rookie contract 100 times out of 100.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Mayfield or Justin Herbert. He's been in the league since, what, 2017?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So you'd go four years, you'd say yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Dak, you wouldn't say eight years, but if I said four, you would take Dak for four. I think I would, yes. Darnold?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Would you rather have Jared Goff or Justin Herbert? I'd rather have Herbert. Herbert. Yeah. Would you rather have Caleb Williams or Justin Herbert? Herbert right now. Why would I? Yeah. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The point of that exercise is as bad as he was in that game and he's never won a playoff game, he's still one of the top 10 QB assets no matter what your preference is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't love the adversity piece with him. Like when it feels like when the wheels start coming off, it doesn't get better for him. Right. You know, it, it, it feels when it's going good, he seems great. And then that's a whole other goes the other way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right, let's take a break and then we'll do guest lines. This episode is brought to you by Viore. I love sports. I know you do too. I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear, especially, you know, I do a lot of walking. I walk around LA. I make calls.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I listen to podcasts. Here are two words that will change everything. Viore clothing. a line of active wear that is unbelievable. The best thing about Viore is you can lounge around in it. You can work out in it. You can go outside. You can go shopping down in your local wherever, and you never feel like you're either underdressed or overdressed. You're just comfortable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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House did not have the cojones to actually take Washington in the ring or Sunday pregame show. He did some bogus Tampa over. It was his way of covering his bases.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You can wear it when you're training, traveling, lounging around the house. Go get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing in the planet. Here's the deal. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons. Once again, V-U-O-R-I.com slash Simmons. All right, so we're going to do guess the lines round two. We only have three games that have lines.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We're going to come back Monday night after Minnesota and the Rams and do a little short, maybe 25-minute pod where we talk about the game and then guess the line because we like to guess every line. It's not our fault they changed, made it a three-day round one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They love Glendale. They love how like middle of the road between the two teams it is for some reason. It's like we put it in Arizona. It's perfectly neutral. The NFL just feels like it's the most neutral territory possible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's not the first time they've went to Glendale. I'm with you. Why not go to Vegas? Go to Vegas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Okay. I'll do the AFC games first. All right. Chiefs Texans in Kansas City. The only reason I was scared of Houston in that... I really liked the Chargers in that Chargers game. Houston had a whiff of nobody believes in us. And then you look at them more and you're like, there's a reason nobody believes in you. You guys have sucked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The only things that would make anyone believe in you are the models on home underdogs during the playoffs and some of the stuff housed it on the show. There's... gambling nerd metrics that we should believe in you. But from what we've watched from a football standpoint, you guys have sucked. Yeah. So I don't feel bad about missing that as a nobody believes in us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But in this game, it's going to kick up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I think the Washington fans were believing that they actually had a real chance to win this one. And the line reflected it. It was Tampa by three. But this came down to a couple plays for me. So... Washington, they're down four. And Tampa gets the goal line stand, right? And it goes to fourth and five. There's like, I don't know, less than 10 minutes left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You know, the thing with that game, though, I really thought the Chargers offensive line was going to be able to handle the edge rushers on Houston. They have good tackles. And yet over and over again, Houston was coming on the edge and they completely disrupted them. Right, right, right. I just pegged it wrong. Anyway, Chiefs Texans, I have Chiefs by nine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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All right, don't get mad, but I hit this exactly. Seven and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
So I jacked it up because I thought they would not want us to tease the Chiefs. Mm-hmm. And I thought they'd put it at nine so that even if you teased them, you still had Chiefs minus three. Chiefs seven and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, why are we going crazy about it? I can understand it after week 12, week 13 range when we were really worried about the Chiefs and it really felt like... Or were they 12-1? It felt like they could have been easily 8-5 or 7-6 with five different plays. I like the way they ended the season up until when they didn't have to play anymore. I thought they were more explosive.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I thought Pacheco, once he came back, that run the ball better. I just liked how they looked more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The only case would be the Houston pass rush again. Casey's tackles aren't great. Some sort of dumb Casey first half where they have three points, you know, 20 minutes into the game. And then... Mixon...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Bills-Ravens is our second game. I had this all week, battling back and forth between minus two and a half, minus three. And I think I'm wrong. But I have the Bills and Buffalo favored by three against the Baltimore Ravens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh, you think the Ravens will get the nod? I'm just, every time we're in the 1.5 tic-tac zone, sometimes by Wednesday, all of a sudden it's like, wait a second, Baltimore's favored a Buffalo now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Maybe they arrived the same way I've kind of arrived mentally. I like the Ravens. You do? I do. I forgot to do this before. I had this Derrick Henry thing I was going to do with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I always think the team should kick the field goal, take the points, make it a one-point game. Tampa doesn't do it. Fourth and five is a lot when you're inside the 10. I just didn't trust that they were going to get it. I thought it was a mistake. Tampa gets the big stop. They have the momentum going the other way. Fumble. Now we're going back again. Now it's fourth and two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was looking up, I was trying to think of how many guys were awesome from like the first moment they played in high school all the way through and they're still awesome now. Like, I think LeBron's been like that, right? LeBron was awesome as a ninth grader all the way through. He's been awesome for 26 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Henry, as a freshman in high school at Uli in 2009, rushed for 2,465 yards and 7.9 yards a carry. He was like 14 years old. He finished his career. He ran for 12,124 yards in high school, 8.7 yards per carry, and 153 touchdowns, right? So he's...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't know if he's the greatest high school running back ever, but whenever anybody writes that article, he has to be one of the first people mentioned. It's like Emmitt Smith and you go through. You have to have Henry in the first couple.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So then he goes to Alabama. They're stacked at running back. He plays anyway. Second year better. And then third year, 2,219 yards, 5.6 to carry. turns pro, and he's rushed for 11,423 yards in nine years. He's had three years where he ran for over five yards a carry, and then another year he was 4'9". This last year, he ran for 5'9 a carry in 1921. It's the second best year of his career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's nobody like him. He's a complete 101. We've never seen a running back who does the things that he does. I can't compare him to anybody... we've ever, like there's pieces of like Christian McCoy, Eric Dickerson. I don't know who he is. Yeah. And he's exactly as good as he was when he came in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I don't know how long it continues, but it's weird that we had that one playoffs when we talked about him, when the tight, when the Titans were like nine and eight or nine and seven, and then they made it all the way to the AFC title game. And it was like, Oh my God, it's Derek Henry more valuable than any quarterback. And, That was the only time he had a moment in the sun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And now you watch him, especially in that playoff game. And it's like, are we just completely underrated Baltimore? And is this Lamar Henry thing? Are we going to look back at this and think this was one of the most amazing combos we've had in the league this century? Anyway, that's why I like the Ravens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But how are you this great as a running back for 15 straight years?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's still unstoppable. He was unstoppable as a freshman in high school. 15 years later, nobody could stop him. It's amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's 4'9 per carry for his career. Yeah. And then 5'0 in the postseason. Usually we always talk about running backs. It's like a shelf life of four years, five years, maybe six years. This guy's going to, you know, he's floating around in free agency and people are like, I might be too old. And it turned out he was just on a team that didn't have quarterbacks for four years. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it was like on the 11th, fourth and two, a little more manageable. I was okay with them going in second time, plus there was less time in the game and Daniels delivers, comes through, right? So now Washington's up three. Tampa goes all the way back down. They have this great drive. Baker has a scramble. It's second and one on the 11th. And there's like less than five minutes left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think this guy's one of the all-time freaks. I think Moss was a freak. I think Lawrence Taylor was a freak. We talk about the freak athletes that we've watched since we've been alive and love football. And Henry, it's a short list, but he's definitely on it. He's a one-on-one to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Senior year, 13 games, 4,261 yards. Wow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But it does, like you see, there's like the videos of Lamar from high school where he has like a couple just freaky... You know, he has that one, that run into the end zone where he just stops and the guy goes by him and he just pauses and then he goes in. And it's just like some of these dudes, they just had it when they were 14. Then there's the late bloomer types.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Even Cooper Dijon, have you seen the basketball footage of him? Like doing two hand slams? I don't know. These guys are good athletes. These guys are good athletes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, I just think Henry is one of the all-time freaks since we've been watching football. He's phenomenal. I would put him at the top, top, top freak level of all these dudes. And I wonder, is he the key guy in round two? The reason I brought that up. Is he the key guy in round two, not Lamar? Because the Bills, they're medium-sized. They're not big. I do feel like you can batter and ram them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And he just softens them up and then Lamar can do his stuff on the sides. But why did you make this line three if you like Baltimore so much? I was just trying to guess what Vegas would have because I think Vegas really likes the Bills.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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To me, I want to bet them straight up because there's still the Lamar playoff stuff still makes me a whiff nervous. So I wouldn't want to tie it with another bet. I'd rather tease the Chiefs with one of the NFC teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's crazy. I guess he got hurt for like eight games one year in Tennessee, but there's just no wear and tear at all. He's like a car that has 200,000 miles on it that can still go 200 miles an hour.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was on a text thread about this this weekend. I was saying it's like the kid in the little league world series game, the Cody Webster kid, who's just bigger than everybody else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then that kid grows up and he's, that's the highlight of his life, right? Derek Henry was probably that kid at age eight and he's still that guy now and he's 30. He's been that guy for over two decades. He still looks like you watch and you go, how's anyone tackling this? All right. Third game, Detroit home for Washington.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They run this like QB option run with Baker gets stuffed. Then the next play, like fumbled snap, Bucky Irving always tackled four yards behind the line. All of a sudden they're kicking a field goal. And it was like, it just like tush push it. You have first down, first down goal to go. And you have a chance to control your destiny. Then Washington comes back down. Two huge plays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You know where this is going. It's going right in the Vegas zone for me. Detroit by five and a half. Ooh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We still have to do it for posterity. You don't have to start your guys. You can be like when the Chiefs rest in Week 18. Yeah. You can look up some Derrick Henry High School footage. You can go over that somewhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think that's ridiculous. I don't understand that at all. With Detroit's defense? Because they look good against Minnesota because Darnold sucked? And sailed like 10 passes. Now we think Detroit's defense is back. They gave up 40 plus points like three weeks before that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They get the one seed. They get a week off. They get Washington in round two that just pulled out yet another crazy win, but still has a rookie quarterback. The leap of just thinking mentally of Washington, I know they won 12 games. They're a good team, but just thinking about them in the NFC title game, that seems like a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think I'd be the most afraid of the Vikings, as crazy as that sounds.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Don't you think? Because I do think there's a world where those were the two best teams, not just in the NFC, but the whole league potentially. Withstanding the whole Chiefs playoff pedigree and all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's got two weeks. With the way Hertz looks, I wouldn't be as scared of the Eagles as I would have been four weeks ago. Right. Don't you think? Yeah. I mean, he had 39 yards at halftime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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That little weird screen pass flick play.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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All right, so we're going to... We'll save the rest of it for tomorrow when we react off. All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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This is great. This could be your first title. This could give hope to Buffalo fans, Minnesota fans, Washington Commanders fans, Lions fans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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How many great high school to their 30s athletes can you think of who were great the entire time all the way through? Because I guess like in basketball, basketball happens way more easy to figure out. Football happens with the quarterbacks, but the running backs and the receivers, I would argue it doesn't really. Emmett was like that. Emmett was awesome. Emmett was great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But it was a really nice play. They get it. They go down in the field goal territory. Then that awesome third one by Daniels, which is that was the play of the game. That's why he's special. But Sal, like over and over again in the last like five, six, seven minutes of these games, he's just pulling them out. I'd be scared of them if I was Philadelphia. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He was a high school college pro guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But other than that, I don't know. So Rudy, are there other guys that I'm not thinking of? How many guys were awesome high school college pros? So we just got to turn his zoom on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. Oh, Peyton's a good one. Was Peyton awesome like ninth grade on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He just couldn't beat Florida. Yeah. I guess Randy Moss, but then Randy Moss had to transfer when he was in college and the college went a little sideways for a second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So Rudy, when Henry got when he went, fell to the second round after the Alabama season, did that seem like the right range for you or did you think everybody was a big mistake?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, you know, I was looking at one of those lists where they had the 50 best. Tony Dorsett was apparently one of the great high school running backs of all time. And then he was really good at Pittsburgh too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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His Cowboys run was probably eight or nine years. Pretty great. Yeah. Yeah. Right in there. All right. Thanks. Suri, who do you like in the title game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh, wow. What's the line in the Ohio State?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Thanks, Rudy. All right. Should we skip parent corner this week and talk California? We could, yes. We should mention that as we're recording this on a Sunday night and we got noticed a couple hours ago that there's like a severe wind thing coming on Tuesday. So... It's hard to say where we're going next, but this was already the worst week since I've been in LA. By far, not even close.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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One of the biggest natural disasters in American history. And I can't wrap my head around it all of these days later. And you're over in the Manhattan Beach area. I don't know how much you've dealt with some of the areas that were affected when we're talking Palisades and Malibu and Eaton, Altadena were the big four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, we knew, we knew a lot of people from friends of friends, people, my kids went to school with who lived in different parts. And, and, uh, I, it's, I don't even know how to describe this to people who don't live in California, like the wide swath of devastation. Um, the Palisades just basically being gone, whole parts of Malibu just being gone, eating all to Dina.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like I, I, it's one of those things when you see it, when you watch it on TV, um, and it's happening in other areas and it's like, man, that seems awful, but you don't really fully understand it until you live there. And I don't, I know Ella come back. I know everybody bounces back eventually, but, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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man, it's really hard to even understand how the rebuilding is going to happen and how long it's going to take. And you just see those wide overhead shots of these different areas. And it's just like, it's just so awful. And it's just been an awful week. And it just feels like it's not going to get better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, and I got all excited. I actually looked this up because I thought it was Washington-Philadelphia before I realized I was confused by the standings. Do you know how many times Washington and Philadelphia have played in the playoffs?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, it doesn't seem like it's over yet. We'll see. I mean, we've been here, I've been here since 02 and you've been here a few years before that. And there's been wind events and it's been windy. And I remember over and over again, especially like even taking my daughter to soccer tournaments and it would be like 35 degree, 35 mile an hour winds in Lancaster and stuff like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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For some reason, these winds seemed a little, they were pointing them out a couple of days before like, hey, this is pretty scary this time around. And then everything that happened was so much worse than you ever, ever could imagine. Even heading through Tuesday, like it was starting the Palisades. And then all of a sudden by mid, early Tuesday night here, you really felt like this could go on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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in a, in a direction you just never could have been in your worst nightmare imagined. But, um, first responders, fire department, police department, um, the helicopter pilots dropping the water, all the, all the TV people who were out there braving the elements. I mean, that, that one of the things that was, um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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really inspiring was how many people were trying to get out there, trying to tell us what was going on. And for a lot of people watching TV, not knowing if it was their neighborhood, their house. Um, and it was, you're just relying on all these people, these Twitter accounts, like that LA scanner account.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, but, and it turned out to be just a 10 out of 10, the worst case scenario that we could have had.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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One. Really? One. It was the Mark Rippon year. Washington beat them 20-6. When they won the Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, I'm going to, I wanted to really kind of dive into it and see which ones I trusted. And maybe on the next podcast could talk about some of the, some of the possibilities. So, you know, some of the stuff's going to get rebuilt. And I'm sure it's going to take a while. There's some other stuff that I don't know how stuff comes back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Houses that were from 1940, 1950 that you would never build the same way. And some pieces of California that just had real special characters. Certainly one of the reasons I wanted to live here. Being near the ocean and just some of the coolest parts of the country I'd ever seen. And then on top of it, just...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think losing your house and having no power over that and just knowing all the stuff that you kept and everything's gone. Like I don't, there's very few worse feelings than that. So it's just so much pain and so much heartbreak out here. We try to do podcasts, try to talk football and try to keep people's minds off it for an hour, but it's really, really horrible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I really hope we've hit the end of it and that it's not going to get worse. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Interesting. That was the only time they've ever played in the playoffs, which is weird because they played twice a year. I would have guessed it was like... And they've been in the league this whole time. I would have guessed... It would have been like eight, seven, ten. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, that's it. Best of luck to everybody out there. We're really sorry about everything that happened. On one of the later podcasts that we do, hopefully this week, we'll try to have some, maybe even tomorrow when we come back tomorrow for that last game, maybe we can try to figure out a couple of good things that we actually trust and a couple ways to get the word out to try to help people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I know that was a Monday night. It feels like it was a hundred.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
So anyway, well, we're really feeling for everybody out there and it's, it's just really heartbreaking. I really come to love LA too. And, uh, you know, it's just, uh, it's just hard to wrap your head around, especially places that you've been to a million times. And now you think, well, wait a second, what's that going to look like now? But hopefully we can all get through this and figure it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Sal? I will see you tomorrow night. Let's do it tomorrow. Good job by you, Billy. Good job by you. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal for producing. You can watch this video on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel as well. And we will see you on Monday night. Please, everybody, stay safe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
What did you think of Tampa potentially going for a down three with like four minutes left? That would have been like a fourth and three after they got stuffed twice. Yeah, it was like fourth and three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Well, especially the end of the first half when he was mismanaging everything and somehow they scored anyway. I thought they should kick the field goal. And yet when they kicked the field goal, I thought Washington was going to come down and get the game-winning field goal. It was weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I didn't think they should go for it, but I also thought they were going to lose because they didn't get those two plays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here, and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sportsbook any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I tried to order Vita Vea at Peter Luger's. They didn't have it. I mean, big picture. And we know a lot of Washington fans. This was the official fuck you Dan Snyder game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
You know, not, it was one thing. It's a cute story. They had a Hail Mary. They got into the playoffs. Yeah. You know, Dan Quinn, it's a family atmosphere. They have a front office that actually knows what they're doing. Adam Peters, like they've turned the organization around. That makes them look bad enough. But now you have this awesome playoff win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Now they're playing Detroit, a team that doesn't have the most awesome defense, at least until week 18 when they look pretty good against Minnesota. But Darnold also left a lot of throws. If I'm Washington, I feel like I can go in there and at least match points with Detroit. Who the fuck knows, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Well, you knew somebody was going to get screwed with the Sunday to Saturday. I guess it would be worse if it was the Monday game. But yeah, first playoff win in 20 years. And like, you know, the Patriots hired Mike Vrabel this weekend, which was felt like it was headed that way for five days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
But I was getting intel that it was getting a little hairy on Friday night and Chicago was making a run at him. And, you know, and you think like, oh man, if we don't get him and we don't get better, all of a sudden we're looking at the Pete Carroll range of guys. But they get Vrabel, they have Drake Medealvo, there's Capspace, they have the fourth pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
And, you know, they had probably one of the worst rosters in the league, if not the worst. They're in a division with Buffalo. There's all these reasons not to believe. But I watch a team like Washington. I'm like, they turned it around in a year. That team was a fucking, you know, shit can. And they drafted the right quarterback. They changed the coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
They brought in a really good coaching staff. And all of a sudden they have 13 wins. So it's not like they're like a nine and 18 that snuck in. Like this team's won 13 times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
You need the coach, you need the QB. And I can kind of figure out everything else, right? But if I don't have those two things, where am I going? And you need at least like a solid coach, maybe better than that. And you need a top 10 QB potentially. And now they have the two things. And now they can try to build their roster. But I thought the way Washington did it was the blueprint.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
They had a lot of really smart second-level free agent signings, kind of going after the B-list guys, like the best of the B-list, and they spent a lot of money on their coaching staff. So it seems replicable. The Pats have a really super easy schedule. Anyway, I was inspired by Washington. The difference is Daniel's in his mid-20s. He was in college for...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
and hopefully Drake may can get there well I'm hoping now I thought I mean I've talked about Vrabel a bunch of times on the pod I just felt like he was hands down the best coaching candidate available we'll see with Ben Johnson but there's a big difference between calling plays and actually having to run a whole team and build a whole culture I think I thought Tampa Washington was the hardest game to pick who'd you have in that game
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
What'd you do? I just, I had all those, I never did million dollar picks this week, but I had all those anchor teasers with Buffalo and Baltimore, eight, eight and a half point teases. So Green Bay covered by half point. The Tampa covered today. I had a lot of trouble with the Chargers lost yesterday. I had a lot of trouble with Washington-Tampa because I like the same thing about both teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I like their offenses. I like the way their quarterbacks were playing. And I thought that both of them were really these close-knit teams. You know, I was reading the stories about Tampa heading into the out of the week 18 and like that Mike Evans play that we were joking about last week about, oh my God, that was kind of risky to go for it, to go for a thousand yards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
You have the game, you're like the playoffs are on the line. And you read the stories about it and guys were saying it was like the highlight of their careers. Like they all love Mike Evans. And they were like, this record meant a lot to him. He got hurt. He didn't think he was going to be back in time to try to break it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
And there was just all this stuff and you could just feel the love coming out of that. They love Baker Mayfield. They play hard for him. So I was like, man, this is almost two teams. I wish these two teams were playing two other teams so I could pick both of these teams. It was one of those because everything you read about Washington is the same thing. Dan Quinn, he's turned the vibes around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
The mood is completely different. And they end up winning the mood ball, I guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal
I had written down, because there seemed like they were going to possibly win at one point. I was researching them. They had a case for being the best 2020s NFC team. And they still might have the case even now. Because they're one of the only two NFC teams that won a Super Bowl. They've had four division titles. They were 6-3 in the playoffs heading into this game today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Coming up, we figure out a way to talk about OKC, basketball, sports media, a lot of stuff with Priscilla and Brian Curtis next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I am on the Prestige TV podcast recapping White Lotus every Sunday night, right after the episode runs on HBO and on Max. Me, Joanna Robinson, Mally Rubin. You can hear our recap.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Oh, he's probably going to shoot here and he's already like releasing the ball and he's just so good at it now. He's so good from 18 feet that the model I was thinking was solo was, uh, It's like the most efficient version possible of where Kobe was getting to in that 03 to 09 range.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And Kobe would try to swing between these three-pointers, get into the line, and then this 15 to 18-foot range jump shot. And SJ's just more efficient at it. He's 53, 54% per game on some of these. And they're just always going in. And I think about the Celtics. It's like, how do you stop this? What's your move? Like, do you just say drew holiday on him all the time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, then they're just going to get him in switches until he gets the guy that he wants on him. And then he does it to them. But it's, this is why he's going to win the MVP. I think because when you watch them against these good teams, he always seems to get his points, no matter what the other team is doing. And that's going to be the case for him ultimately. Plus the wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It seems size.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
If they, you know, long rebounds or if they get a steal, they just finish plays. And SGA is really good in the open four, too, which I think that's probably the fourth way he's getting his points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Just watched OKC Denver. I'm a little groggy today, Russillo. OK. Daylight savings combined with going to bed last night, wanted to throw something on, flip through the cable guide because I'm old and I still flip through cable guides. Castaway just started a movie I've seen 100,000 times. I did a solo rewatchables for and I'm like, I'll just watch the beginning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
That's another piece that makes it not that fun to quote unquote, talk about them because they all like each other and get along and they do interviews after the game. There's no like, ah, I wonder is Jalen Williams jealous about SGA, but there's none of that shit. So SJ is 33 a game, 53% field goal, plus 17.6 net rating heading into this game. Although a lot of the OKC guys are way up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
31.1 PR, which is really rare for a guard. That's top 20 all the time. And he plays every game, which I'm always going to say this over and over again. Durability should matter a little more when we talk about all this stuff. But if you compare it to Curry in 2016, when the Warriors went 73-9, 30 points a game, 35 and seven basically. And he had all the 50, 45, 90 percentage stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
MJ in 92, when the Bulls went 67 and 15, he was 30, six and six, 52% played 80 games. Kobe, probably his best season was 03 for team success combined with the stats, 37 and six. And then Harden in 2018 when they went 65 and 17, he was 36 and nine. So as crazy as this sounds, he's having the best statistical season of any of these guards combined with like, did you win in the mid 60s or higher?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So if you're talking about, because I've heard some people be like, Jokic has to be the MVP again. I just think SGA, I don't know who I'm voting for yet. I'm taking it to the last week as always. But watching SGA do this over and over again in these big games, just get to his 40 points. His team is usually winning. He's doing it day after day after day. He has a dramatic effect on everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I just think he's checking all the boxes. It would be hard for me to believe he's not going to win if they win 66 games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He had a triple-double on Friday night in the beginning of the third quarter and then a second triple-double during the game on Friday. He put together two different triple-doubles in one game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I'm up till like 1.45 in the morning, which was really 2.45 in the morning. And I just loved that movie. But I had to ask you, what's your castaway move coming out of the gate? You're just stranded on the island. Like, do you figure out how to do a home gym? Like what, about a year in, what does your island look like? I've actually thought about this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
SGA's minus $600,000. I'm not deciding until the last week, but everything SJ is doing, I find it hard to believe he's not going to win. I think he's going to win too. With the team record and everything else. But I'm with you. If I'm just starting from scratch... And who is the best player in the league? It's really hard for me to think. It's not game to game. All the stuff Jokic does.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think he's been in a harder spot this year with his team. Not knowing where you're getting from Murray the first two months. Gordon's been up and down the last like six weeks with injuries. Westbrook, they're relying on in this insane way now. They don't have a bench at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
SJ has at least, if you're gonna like, and it's not his fault, but he at least knows when he leaves the game, they're not gonna immediately crater. Um, but it's a good battle. It's a really good battle. I hope it doesn't get, uh, I hope it doesn't get cantankerous as we get closer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Also, it's good to talk to, like, if you talk to people who actually coach in the league or run teams, um, Jokic is still the bar for the teams. It's a little like Mahomes. Mahomes wasn't the best player in the league last year in the NFL, but he was still the bar that people pointed to when they thought like, Who do we have to get by to actually win the title? You looked at Mahomes first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think you look at Jokic first.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, if OKC wins tomorrow and they win the back to back against Denver, it's probably going to be a wrap at this point. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then let's talk about lessons from Lakers Boston last night. One of the best parts of the tournament is when an underdog takes down a powerhouse. This was in my formative years with March Madness in the 80s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It is because there's no music for like 50 minutes. So it's peaceful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
enjoy responsibly 2025 anheuser-busch mcglobal ultra light beer st louis missouri must be 21 plus to order alcohol alcohol available only in select markets one thing i forgot to mention about okc that philly pick is such a monkey wrench in this draft if that ends up being seven eight or nine i just i kept thinking about it watching that game like what does this team even need
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What do they look... It's like, yeah, we got to upgrade. Every part of the team I kind of like. So anyway. All right. Lakers-Celtics. Felt like a massive basketball game last night. It felt like real theater. And the Lakers were a little compromised. No Rui and no even Jackson Hayes. I can't believe I'm saying it. But not having both of those guys. Having no centers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, having no centers was an issue against a team that has size and can drive the basket. Celts didn't have KP. But that game... was really fun to watch. Tatum was awesome. Um, the crowd was really interesting about, I knew multiple people that were there and there were some Laker fans there. I think there was some secondary market Laker fans.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So there was a real energy in the arena and the Lakers just couldn't keep up. It was unsustainable with, uh, those two guys and then LeBron breaks down anyway. But what, what big lesson did you take from that game? Anything? Horford,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He's really comfortable at least banging with LeBron, which is funny because there was that whole stretch when LeBron just owned the Hawks. And even though his minutes are the same this year, it doesn't feel like they've used him in the same ways. They've been way more bubble-wrappy with him. And then if they really need him, they'll unleash him in a game like that. I agree with you. He was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He's awesome. I don't understand how he's still doing it. I was surprised the Lakers didn't try to get Reeves going a little bit more because I think that's somebody the Celtics have had trouble matching up with. Just those kind of herky-jerky guards in general seem to do okay against them. But I thought the Lakers just got too trapped into this idea of what they thought they... They wanted to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It was also a really weird Luca game who clearly wasn't 100%. My dad was, my dad went to the game. He was texting me and he was just like, what's wrong with Luca? Like I started getting those texts pretty early. Like something's not right. He doesn't seem right. And just, he just seemed off. And then, LeBron got hurt, which he tweaked the groin. We'll see how long he's out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But this is the problem when you're overcompensating for these other things that are missing. And you can fly around and you can look really good in a Thursday night game, but it's not sustainable. You can't put that kind of rebound and defense pressure on LeBron. So they might drop down now to the four or five seed. We might get...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Lakers-Warriors round one is not inconceivable at this point, which I think would be just a nuts series. One thing I noticed before LeBron got hurt, this is the most fun I think I've had watching him since that since the COVID season. Just some of the decisions, some of the ways he was attacking the Celtics, how comfortable athletically he was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Episode four is this weekend. It's on the Prestige TV. You can also watch it on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel. And then the rewatchable is Monday night. We're doing best in show. Yeah. Christopher Guest. Dogs. It's me and Mally Rubin and Joanne Robinson, my White Lotus crew. It's threatening. It becomes sports movie month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It was actually looking a little 2018 LeBron-ish to me, that whole run he had in the Cavs team, but he has obviously better teammates. I still would not want to see this team in a series, even if they don't have a center. I assume they're going to have at least Ruby and Hayes when they get to a series. But how fast that they can make up these little eight-point whatevers
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I just, I'm just still taking them seriously. Last night didn't change anything for me. And then from a Celtics standpoint, I thought Bob Ryan had a great tweet about it. He said, this Celtics team is like a gifted child with a concentration problem. That was Bob Ryan's take on last night's game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Because how many times have they been up 22, 23 and they just fuck around for six minutes and the lead seven and the crowd's groaning and we're like, come on guys, let's finish the game here. They do it over and over again. And last night was another example. So those are all my takeaways.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I know, you're like the new Diane Cannon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Tatum didn't come out for the first 19 minutes of the game. He played 45 last night. He just played all the way through. Yeah, he went all the way through. They took him out for like a minute in the second quarter. I was like, Jesus. I think they really wanted it because the Lakers kicked their ass. It was interesting, though. My dad, after the game, because I FaceTimed him this morning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
We were breaking it down. And he was like, I thought they were scarier with Davis. Which I thought was a great zag by him. I don't know if he's eligible now to come on first take and just like zag hard against Perk and SAS. But he was just like, I thought that team was really hard for us to play because how big and how physical they were.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And now it's like, you know, and he's made the same point that I was thinking watching the game and the announcers talked about too. Like Jalen loves playing against Luka for some reason. I don't know what it is. But Luka brings out the best out of Jalen. And Jalen really feels like he goes into these Luka games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like we're at least going to be a draw in these games and the rest of my team is better. So yeah, I still feel like when it comes down to the playoffs and those two guys trying to figure out At least one of them's out there all the time. All the shit we've talked about forever. I actually think we can't talk about this Lakers team enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Wait, can I say one thing on a loan? Yeah. Yeah, of course. You don't think the wife would be like, wait a second. What just happened? You spent four months training for this show. You quit the day. Are you just a quitter? What are our kids going to be like? Did you pass along your quitting DNA to our children? I could, I mean like stay a second night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
This is such a fascinating situation to have this one guy who's one of the greatest players of all time, who's playing as well as he's played in five years. And then this other guy who had a chance to be the future of the league, who's on his team. I think I've watched every quarter of the Lakers since these two guys have been playing together. I can't get enough of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It's a, I've watched too much of this team thing. When they're up 23, I don't feel safe at all. I'm just waiting for stupid shit to happen. And that's, that's the biggest criticism I can have against them. They're up 91, 69. I'm like, all right, there's going to be a run here. I'm just going to just hopefully, hopefully Joe Maz will call, sniff it out, call timeout before it gets too bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And then it happens. You look at the net rating. So the last 20 games, they're still fourth. They're 15-5 in their last 20. They're plus 7.8. They haven't been as kick-ass as I think they were in this stretch last year. And if you look at the top six teams who I think are Cleveland, OKC, and Boston drop off, Denver, Lakers, Golden State as the teams that have a chance to win the title.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Minnesota, I think, has to be considered maybe as a wild, wild, wild card. Who the fuck knows? And then Detroit has just been awesome with advanced metrics for like 25, 30 games. And that's been our top eight. I just would have thought the Celtics would be doing a little bit better. That's if you're going to talk about like as a Celtic fan, what am I concerned about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They're not dominating like they did last year in some of these games. Whereas OKC... it feels like OKC is usually going to be up 20, 25 against a shitty team. And the Souths, it's like, well, maybe they will. Now they've been resting dudes. Like they had that Portland game the other night where they were just like, hey, Pritchard and White, just shoot the lights out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They had another game where it's basically just Tatum and a bunch of G leaguers. So they've been using the schedule and that is some of the net rating stuff. But I'd like to see them go on one little streak here before the playoffs. A little like what Cleveland's doing right now. A little kick-ass stretch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah. Try to make it like four days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
No, you're right. It might. Let's talk All-NBA. We're going to bring in Brian Curtis in a couple minutes. Let's talk All-NBA really quick. I can't remember with 20 games left, the first team already being done. Because it's going to be Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, SGA, and Mitchell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Um, especially with a, there might've been some sort of LeBron push with how good he's been the last like six, seven weeks. But now if he's going to miss some time, that's probably out. Uh, I don't see there, if there's any way, I don't see any of those guys losing their spot. I think that's a wrap. Um, but then we get to the second and third teams and I think it's going to be a free for all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Where, you know, if you only want to take two guards for the second team, it's Edwards and Brunson and Cade. You have to pick two. Or you can tweak it and cheat and just put all three of them on there. I think LeBron is clearly a second team all NBA at this point with the way he's played the last two months. And then centers between Towns and Triple J if you want to do a center for the hell of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I also feel like Mobley and Jalen Williams have to be on there just because of how well their teams are. I think both of those teams should have two All-NBAs. And then after that, you could talk me into 15 guys. But is there anything, as you kind of look, because we're going to do this every week, we'll call it All-NBA Watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Is there any sort of storyline you're looking at to see, could this guy pass this guy? Could this guy lose his spot? Because for me, KD is not an All-NBA guy if they're going to be an under 500 team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So LeBron versus Mitchell for a first-team spot, basically? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's really tough for me because Cleveland, Mitchell's so important in what Cleveland does. I really feel like wins should matter at least a little in this. I feel like his stats would be better if the team wasn't as good as it is. There's some games where he plays like 28 minutes. It's not his fault.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They're beating teams by 25.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And Mitchell's been awesome in big games, too. Yeah, I think he deserves it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
LeBron, like the last six weeks, it's something like 29, 10 and seven. Something like that. And he's playing defense again. And he's like their best rebounder. So I don't know. He had forged his way into the combo. There's no question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, my dream in life was for my wife to be on Survivor because I think she just would have kept winning challenges. But she also goes crazy if she's not eating regularly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So if you had to pick two of Edwards, Brunson, Cade, if you're going to go traditional, how would you rank those three just with the all-NBA seasons they're having? Because I would have Brunson, Cade, Edwards third. Because I think what Cade's doing on Detroit is unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Ant's stats are great. Records are on there. It's a battle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, if Brunson misses four weeks with that ankle injury, maybe that flips. Not his fault, but that might be the thing. Do you have Cat second team? It's Cat versus Triple J. I think there's been some tough Cat games lately. You agree? Yeah. Been a couple cringers. Yeah, but he's been so good. He didn't even take a shot in the Laker game in the fourth quarter or OT.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They didn't even run a play for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So she would have been like, they would have been constantly trying to vote her off. And then she just would have saved her ass again at the next challenge. You know, I... I always have wanted to know somebody that I really know in my life who went on one of those shows and I'm still waiting. Maybe it'll be you. Maybe you don't know anyone in Tasmania.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I get it. I just think with Jackson on Memphis... Um, that team's 38 and 24, although they've lost four straight and they never seem to know if jobs playing or not. And, uh, he's the most reliable guy they have. I would, I had towns, but I don't, I didn't, he's, he's not in a, in pen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I right now had towns, LeBron Edwards, Brunson and Kate. I had them all in, but I'm not going to keep it that way. Cause I'm, I'm still going to go traditional, even though they gave us the out to fuck around with the position. What about Mobley? I had Mobley third team. And if, and if it has to be two forwards, I would move Mobley to second team because of the defense and some of the other stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I got to say, like, I think Jalen Williams has to be a third team right now with the record of that team. And, uh, And then it's just wide open after that. Cause I, the way Jalen Brown has played for the last four or five weeks, I think he's played himself back into the combo. Harden's got to be in there. Halliburton has been a lot better lately. Garland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah. He's in the conversation again. Garland is in like the distant conversation. What about Steph? Who would you go? Steph or Garland? Well, Steph is the other one. And the way Steph has been playing, I would have Steph over Garland because I think what's happening to Steph, Steph's the one to watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Steph's the one with the arrow pointing next to him on the record charts because he's got the swagger back. Did you end up watching Pistons Warriors last night?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I had it on one of the small TVs. Big Stu. Big Stu is just like, I'm getting, he's like, I'm starting something with somebody. He's on the bench. He starts something anyway. But they played two really good games this year, Pistons and Warriors. Pistons making a late run for league pass MVP. The Rockets had it locked up 40 games into the year. Now the Pistons are like, they're climbing up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They've just had a lot of good ones. The Pistons made it hard on them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
No, somebody that I'm actually like is in my life. where I'm like, oh my God, this is gonna be amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Kerr had a, they had one of those post-game locker room speeches after the Brooklyn game. Kerr gave a speech and, you know, it was basically like an NFL film speech, but at the end was talking about we know we're going to win these close games now. We know how good we are in these close games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like he basically, their whole thing for the first 45, 50 games of the year was, why do we suck in the clutch? We have Steph Curry. Why aren't we winning these games? How are we blowing these games late? What the fuck is happening? This team now, and you can feel it last night with the Pistons game, which was a tight game and it was a back and forth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I was watching and thinking, where is he going to win? The key play of the game was, Jimmy Butler, left corner, takes Tobias off and hits like an 18-footer. And it was like, they just didn't have that. You couldn't go to Wiggins in that spot, right? It's just whatever happened, that Butler trade, everyone fell into place. Moody became a better defensive guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I'm taking them very seriously still. Golden State. Could they win four straight rounds? Probably not. But would I want to see them in any round? Yeah. Would I want to see them in any round? No. Would they be totally comfortable playing OKC? Yes. They love playing OKC. Those games are always good with that. It was wide open and crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I think they could absolutely hang with them in a series. I don't think they would win it, but I think they could hang.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You wouldn't just drink like a lot of coconut, like there's probably some nutrients you could. There's no way. All right, do your castaway. What was your castaway take?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
P.J. Tucker on the Knicks now. They said experienced veteran and an enforcer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
On paper, it makes sense. We're going to take a break and come back with our friend Brian Curtis. All right. We're bringing in a third party here to spruce things up. It's like an episode of White Lotus. Brian Curtis is here, editor-at-large of The Ringer. You can hear him on the Press Box. A great podcast. Also Dallas fan. Is Dallas going to be okay, Curtis? Give us the update.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I was like, is that the reason you sold the team? Yeah, I'm not going to buy that story, Mark Cuban. How bad can this get worse? How would it get worse at this point? I don't know. Rosillo, do you ever remember an NBA fan base being this upset at a team before since you follow basketball? Seattle. Seattle. Oh, yeah. I guess that's the last level. The team actually has to just move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Let me ask you this. Would you rather be a Sonics fan or a Mavericks fan? Well, if you're a Sonics fan, you know you're at least getting an expansion team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I thought about that last night, too, because he goes to the top where he tests out whether he wants to hang himself on the top of the island. And wouldn't the move be to just set everything as high as possible, the highest peak of the island, set it on fire as much as you can so you're getting... At some point, they've got to notice. Although they did say it was a 500,000 square foot radius.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Why he sold when he did, what the reasons for, there's some not so conspiracy conspiracy theories about it. It was an organization that had gotten into some trouble behind the scenes in a couple of different ways. There was always rumors about maybe he wasn't as liquid as people thought. And it was a deal that he made like a year before the deal actually happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And weirdly, he sold pretty low for what the value of the franchise probably was, considering he had a top five guy. There's still some stuff that hasn't added up for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, because people just bought what he was saying was like, no, no, I'm still going to be involved. And that's it's never worked that way ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, it's interesting because he's not getting villainized at all for the Luca thing. And it's a little similar to when the Sonics left Seattle and everybody blamed the guys that bought the team and then moved them to OKC. We did the Sonic Boom podcast about it. But Howard Schultz, the guy that owned the Sonics, the Starbucks guy,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He was just as big of a villain because he sold the team to these guys knowing they were probably going to move him. But then he's like, well, I didn't know that, you know, you can play dumb, you can do all you want. In this case, Cuban selling the franchise to these guys who clearly didn't know what this family that clearly didn't know what they were doing, who knows what their intentions were.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And it's almost like, could he have put in the deal? You're not allowed to trade Luka Dacic for the entire 2020s. Like maybe he should have put something in there like that. But that's not why we brought Brian Curtis on. NBA media discourse in 2025.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It feels like we're in the weirdest place we've ever been, culminating on Thursday night between the third and fourth quarter of a Lakers game on national TV. LeBron James walks over and gets in Stephen A. Smith's face about stuff he said about his son. And it goes viral that night. And Stephen A., He feels like he had to address it. Right, Rossello?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He might not have addressed it otherwise, but once it went viral, he didn't want to. Might not ever come up. He had to address it. And then it's this two, three day cycle Where are we going, Curtis? What's the end game here? What is the end game with just the media getting louder and louder and becoming part of the story in all these different ways?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Something that I'm not sure anybody likes, but it just feels like we're getting more and more of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
In the Curb Your Enthusiasm trip shack seats, same seats.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I doing it during a game was pretty unusual.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't know if that's happened before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, especially he's, what, six inches taller, five inches taller. He looks intimidating.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah. I did this when I did the solo castaway pod during the first two months of COVID, I did this, but I'm always amazed the husband doesn't wake up. That's my favorite part of the movie. Cause Hank's he's back. Helen Hunt won't see him. And then that first night he just says, fuck it and takes a cab to her house. Husband's just sleeping through it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Right. Yeah, he's 6'1", not a point guard, not a shooter, glue guy. Who's the comp? Is it Davion Mitchell, ultimately? That was the question. Could it be Davion Mitchell, who's like a ninth man?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, I think when you get to the opening night and you put the Griffey's courtside and you do all that stuff, you're bringing attention to something and then to expect people not to discuss it and the merits of it, I think seems pretty naive. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Or did he go, what the fuck? We were amazing. I don't know. I just feel bad for Bronny. That's why we haven't really talked about it that much on this pod. He seems like a nice kid. I've always heard good things about him. I don't necessarily think he has to be in this situation, but to expect people not to talk about it It's pretty nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Trying to talk themselves into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
This happens in every other walk of life. Why can't it happen here?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I know it's raining, but that first night I'm probably going to be sleeping with one eye open knowing my, knowing my wife is, is, is just in a tizzy that the love of her life actually survived. I'm probably going to be up for a couple of days there. Just making sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What's the bigger picture thing? Take LeBron out of it. That Stephen A., who I think has been promoted by the network a certain way, right? As like a star on the level of the stars that we're watching in these games, right? Right down to the playoff games when they're two, instead of having the walk-ins with,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
you know, Jalen Brunson or whoever, it's Stephen A walking into a Knicks game and they're covering it like he's an all NBA guy. And this just seems like the philosophy of the network now is to be loud, loud, loud, loud, loud. It used to be some sort of a balance of like, let's do some really good stuff and let's have a couple pieces of what we're doing be loud.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But for the most part, we're going to try to be a whole bunch of things. And now it seems like the Loud is winning, Curtis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What do you think, Russell? Do you feel like there's been a subtle shift of how they're presenting stuff? Is this just the way social media and the way people follow sports in 2025? Is this just they're serving the red meat to the people who want to eat the red meat? What is this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
a couple of days earlier, Barkley had that whole thing. He starts the show. They clearly planned on, I'm going to take some shots at the competition. And then Steve and they spun it after, like, he wasn't talking about me, Charles and I are good. And it was like, I think he was talking about your whole, the first take and countdown.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He was definitely talking about the way ESPN covers basketball, which you're a part of. It wasn't just directed at Perkins, but then Perkins came back and that was another thing that happened. And all of this happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think the same day where we had rival guys on two different networks taking shots at each other who might end up, you know, they're not really working together because they're producing a show out of Atlanta and then the Steve May thing. And it's just like, is this just what we are now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
100%.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
On the rewatchables, because we did Rocky last week, Best in Show this week, and two more spots left. I don't know. Could be another sports movie month. Hey, FanDuel Sportsbook. They have some really fun bets right now. Player performance doubles, two-leg parlays already made for you. Take an NBA player prop, combine it with a bet on that player's team to win. We have a ringer, PBT we call him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, it's eight minute halftimes. It's an hour after the game. Eight minute halftime. Are you serious? I mean, I'm saying an eight minute segment just in a row. ESPN segment might be three minutes. You know, you have four people. You got to move it. You got to move around. They'll actually have a conversation. I was always jealous of it. Yeah, I feel like with ESPN,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
these pregame, postgame, halftime shows, the postgame show is always going to win, Curtis, because you're reacting to something we just saw. It's the same reason why we do a lot of emergency pods or pods right after games, because it's like, this just happened. What'd you think is always going to win? And ESPN, a lot of their stuff is steered toward coming up later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What do you think is going to happen? I think this is going to happen. I think Jalen Brown's going to have a big game. It's just not because you're, you know, there's only so much you can do with that stuff, but being able to react to what just happened is a huge advantage. The other thing is the TNT show is a comedy show. Like my wife will be sitting next to me, like on her phone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And when those guys come on and she sees Barkley, like she's interested for six minutes because she thinks those guys are funny. And I don't, you know, no other show has that. I don't think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, maybe the move would have been to bow out. OKC Denver. So there's this, and I don't know if I just noticed it this year, but it might be every year where we have to, there's this new thing the media does and it's not new where they lecture people that we're not talking about somebody enough or we got to give these guys more credit. It's like this lecture thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They're doing it out of Atlanta still though, right? They're basically being simulcast on ESPN. I guess they're moving there. Do you think they're worried things are going to change?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, do you feel... So his main critique was all they did was talk about the Lakers and the Celtics and the Knicks. And Stephen A. 's response was, well, we have two hours and we have eight segments. And if you do, I haven't watched a lot of two-hour first takes, but they do bounce around a lot of stuff. What they lead with... is usually the biggest teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Marcelo, they've been doing that since you were a young pup there. They're always going to push people toward talk Lakers, talk Cowboys, talk Yankees, like whoever the biggest teams are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
That's how they sell the headlines of the stuff, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It's a way of talking about a team because you don't really have anything that interesting to say. So you look in the camera and you lecture people about, we're not talking about OKC enough. I don't know what we're doing, people. And you do that thing. We did this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What is the strategy, if you had to describe a big picture content strategy for them as we head into the heart of the mid-2020s here, Curtis, what would it be?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And that includes the social media strategy and how they use a lot of those clips because they're just pushing interest and fervor toward that flagship thing, which begs the bigger question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I remember the first time I really noticed this was that the year after the Suns made the finals and they were awesome because I think I did it. where the Suns were really good that second year and nobody was talking about them. And at some point there was a week where I was like, we're not talking about the Suns. What are we doing? I did it. Right. We did it. We all did it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, so where does the stuff like all the weird original stuff they do on ESPN Plus go? Like some of the stuff Omaha does, like does that stuff, is that part of their plan or is it just going to be game rights and reaction shows? And that's the future of the company.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Hmm. Um, on the, uh, on the Barkley being on ESPN next year, piece of it, and just that show in general, Look, who knows? It doesn't feel like it's going to go great. It's just it's like one of those when when Conan took over Jay Leno show and Jay Leno didn't want to leave. And there was just even before it started, you're like, ah, this something feels off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I just somebody delivering a show to ESPN that they're not in control of, which we're seeing now with McAfee, which I'm sure they have mixed opinions on. Um, but just in Barkley who just doesn't give a shit anymore is the other piece of this. Right. And Kenny, I'm not sure he really cares.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like they're just going to go and they're going to push and they're going to tweak and they're going to do their thing. It's, it really has a chance to be fascinating. I think, and I don't know how it plays out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Around the horn going away. Which leaves some sort of hole, which I guess there's been rumors about an hour-long PTI, which I just feel like would happen over Kornheiser's dead body. I was going to say. He's been my friend for a long time. Does Tony want to do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think we probably did it together. And then I think the Celtics did it last year. I think the Celtics hit that point where there was kind of not a lot to say. They shot a lot of threes. They hadn't won anything yet. And I feel like OKC is in this zone this year. I have some theories for this. OK. Basically, the subject heading would be, why is it not that fun to talk about OKC yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He's so maniacally precious about the format of that show and how sustainable it's been for this whole century to then just double it. and be like, all right, more of us, and we're going to have an interview. I just don't see him at his age wanting to do that. Yeah, but didn't he write a book called Back for the Cash? He might have enough cash, though. I think he has enough cash.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But I do wonder, I was thinking of PTI and there might be a chance to reinvent that show a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Because when you think, and I've talked a bunch about how the content cycle has shifted in the last 15 years that I've been doing this, where it's just gotten faster and faster to the point that Sal and I went from taping Monday afternoons in the late 2000s, Guest Alliance, to now we're doing it like literally right after an NBC game ends. And you have these guys coming out at 5.30 ESPN.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And it's like, if you don't watch that show when it's happening, it's got like maybe a two, three hour shelf life because we're going right into sports. So it's like Luka Doncic's first game back in LA. First home game. What do you think is going to happen tonight, Wilbon? Like you can't listen to that nine hours later. So I do wonder, is there a chance to reinvent the show?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Do you think it's just too stuck in its ways at this point, Curtis, or what happens?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Do you rebuild it? Do you rebuild the structure? Cause I think if you were doing that show now, you'd probably want it to be on at 10 in the morning. I think you would want it to be on coming off the night or nine in the morning. You'd want it coming off the night before with the same format go, I think would be a bigger advantage. I think the five 30 is really hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I mean, have you thought about that? We're so low. Like, I remember the six sometimes when we do pods late, I feel like it's like, this feels almost stale now when it's going to come out. Yeah. Think about what the six o'clock sports center was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It's pretty rare at that point. You're thinking about the games that are about to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Because they just dusted Denver tonight and they have a guy who's going to win the MVP. And yet everybody's like, what is your opinion for why this is not fun yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What do you think, Curtis? What is PTI two years from now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You just run video podcasts of stuff you already did. Just just kind of chew up innings with that and save a ton of money. It is an interesting question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I had a great TV viewing experience the other day. Although it was a sad one too, but the Bruins are trading Marshan and there were rumors like he might be going. And my dad texted me. I'm like, what? So I'm trying to find like, is there an NHL trade deadline show? What's going on here? ended up on the NHL network. It was just two dudes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
The show is out of like 1981 and they're going through info and it's this thing is happening. I was watching it consuming in a way. And I, like that's, that's where those shows still have an impact. where it's like, this just happened. How do I get information about it? You know, you'll see it like NBA trade deadlines like that or like the day of free agency in the NBA on July 1st.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Or NFL, something happens on a Tuesday. You know, there's a trade or somebody's out for the year. It seems like the immediacy of this just happened. How do I just get any sort of information? I don't even care. I honestly don't know the names of the two guys who hosted this NHL show, but I watched it for like 45 minutes. Like they did. They didn't. It's a, it's a conditional second.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What's going on? Um, yeah, that's my NHL network story. Priscilla seems like he's enjoying it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He was their number eight prospect.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
There were trades and there is like a five person trade and I didn't know who any of the five people were. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Surprised they did that. You have to have opinions on that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Curtis would like this story. So I'm a kid. I'm staying at my mom's house in Connecticut. And I don't think it was the fan. It was even a New York sports station that wasn't a fan. And Dave Sims was hosting like a NBA draft show. And you remember being a kid in the eighties, there's just no information.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You don't know any, you might be like sports illustrated, might have like, here's, here's how we think the top 13 in the draft is going to be like, Oh my God. Like there was just nothing. You couldn't find anything about anything. And there was this radio show and they just did the draft for like three, four hours. And I, I, like you could have, a bulldozer could have driven through my, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Do you think wind horse is like, fuck man, I was going to play golf tomorrow. Now I'm on a connecting flight to Hartford because they need me to get in there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I got to say, the Luka thing he did when the Celts went up 3-0 in the finals, because I actually watched that. After Luka got traded, I'm just consuming everything, trying to figure out what could have happened. And it was like a pre-planned monologue in his head. He's doing it stand up on the court. He clearly had something to say.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I'm about to have fun talking about SGA with you just like three minutes from now, but I'm just flagging that for you now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He also clearly had information from somebody on the Dallas side that colored why he was doing this. And he was really convicted about it. And he was like, this is a real problem for this team. That this guy is handling big games and big moments like this. He hurt the team today. He's got to fix this. And now when you look back at that moment, I haven't talked to him about it, but
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You know, that was probably the genesis of when that trade happened, that finals, where we still think it's the dumbest NBA trade of our lifetimes, but that was probably where they were like, this fucking guy And it just, that was it. And they just start complaining about him and complaining about him behind the scenes. And that's it. But yeah, people are, there's still good journalism out there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I also feel like the bar of people kind of policing it has been really good. I think people are getting away with a lot less chicanery and putting out false shit. Nobody wants to be wrong. I think people are really careful about when they put something out. And occasionally we get a fight at a Starbucks at the combine. We're from Howard Schultz's son. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Did you leave the press box with that? Or was that just a deep dive investigation after the fact?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You've done it, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I haven't really talked to you about this, but McShay and I text a little bit now. Interesting. I'll just sometimes text him football stuff and then he'll text me back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, I'm on a thread with Solo's roommate and conspiracy theorist extraordinaire, Timmy. And it's one of my favorite threads.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It started with a UFO conversation in Denver and then we just kept going. Hey, welcome to a special part of the show, which is brought to you today by Audi with their all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron wanted to do. This isn't like, we're not going to do like a recap of Celtic city each episode, but I want to do like one little piece of,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
from each episode that I thought we could talk about in a modern context. So the first episode, a lot of it's about Bob Cousy, who I feel like has this fascinating, big picture, whatever he means in the context of American sports in the 21st century. It's either underrated or overrated, but it's not what I think people think. He's the most popular player of the first 15 years of the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He was the first exciting player the league ever had. And he actually should be discussed maybe a little more reverentially than he is. And instead, the only time he's been discussed this decade was JJ when he did the plumbers, that whole plumbers thing that he did when he kind of disparaged the first 15 years of the league and people got upset about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But Curtis, just as a sports historian, Bob Cousy, big picture. What are your immediate thoughts?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah. Even Boston last year, who'd had the scars and had some tough losses and gotten in the finals and it was still the same thing. Well, you know, we'll see, we'll see if they can win four rounds. Um, I think there's a couple issues with OKC. None of them are their fault. One is that they're new. Two is that there's nothing polarizing about them whatsoever. There's no argument.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Every once in a while, Bob Boos is still alive and he's still proud to be a Celtic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It's interesting to look at the anniversary teams because they would do... They did like a 25th anniversary team for the NBA in like 1971. And Koozie was... you know, clearly on that. He's one of the 10 guys. And then you do, you know, the 40th anniversary, he's still there, and the 50th anniversary.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But just as the years pass, you just start getting shoved out, right, for the newer guys or the legends. And the thing with him, there's all these different time machine guys that would be so much fun if you could just take them out and put them in a different era. Like, you could take... I don't know, Jason Tatum right now and put him in 1955 and people would be like, what's happening?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Koozie would be fun in the reverse. Like if he just came into the way the league's played now or it's just like, he's just going nuts, throwing like these behind the back crazy passes. He's always trying to do fast breaks. How does this play out, Rosillo?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You think they'd play off him? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, have you ever, Kuzis talked about this. When you dribbled back then, you, you couldn't carry the ball. You couldn't carry it under. You had to literally dribble like that. And you're playing in these shitty sneakers. It's like night and day. It's like comparing automobiles from the 1950s to now. I think the passing, the highlights are still really fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
We had a bunch of them in the first episode. The behind the head, the way he would bring guys in. Everybody was in play when he was the point guard. I do miss, I feel like that type of point guard is... doesn't really exist anymore, right? You're almost like a score slash distributor. Now you're more like a Darius Garland type. Rondo is probably maybe the last...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
There's no like, I'm going to sit in a sports bar and have an OKC argument about Jalen Williams or Chet Holmgren. They've just done everything correctly. They've added talent really smartly. They built a fun team. I think their eight, nine-man rotation is pretty unassailably put together. They have all these picks coming. And there's no zag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
kind of piece of whatever Kuzi was way, way back then. The way Rondo played, I think, was... I don't know if we'll see it again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Curtis, in the 80s, it was Koozie and Heinsohn. with Mike Gorman. Kuzi was the third guy, a bunch. And it was amazing. And it's still like up there for my favorite announcing teams of all time because Kuzi and Heinsohn had this, you know, amazing relationship where they over, I think they overlapped for one year at Holy Cross. They played together for,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Oh no, they didn't overlap at Holy Cross, but they both went to Holy Cross and then they played together with the Celtics, I think for seven years. So they just, there was this real friendship with them. And they were also like pretty critical of, you know, they had a combined like 15 rings. So they'd be critical of the players they were watching. And it was just like hanging out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It was like a podcast. It was amazing. Kuzi had that, there were just names he couldn't say because he had that crazy French accent. like he Rajan Rondo just would have been unachievable for Kuzu. There's no way he was even going near it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Especially when the team was bad. Well, Curtis, you remember Bill Walton when he did the NBC in the mid-90s. was considered so negative. I think they had to take him off. I think it actually like he, he was like too critical because it's another thing. Like, but Walton was one of the best 30 players, 35 players of all time. So he would watch somebody suck and he would just call it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And whenever there's not a zag, I think people have struggle. They struggle to figure out like, well, how do we talk about this then? Because you just end up going, this team's great. This team's awesome. But you watch them today and this team, I think the thing that is so impressive to me is that they can linger in these games and they'll be up like four, they'll be up three, they'll be up six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I think it got too negative even for, uh, NBA coverage. You remember that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He's killing everybody. It's funny because he's such a happy, joyous guy. It just was a thing. Anyway, the all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron, a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration. the most advanced tech of any audio ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage or the panoramic digital stage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
player performance bet placed on any of the Tuesday games. So Washington, Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana. That's a fun one because Indiana always plays well against Milwaukee. Maybe grab some Halliburton with Indiana to win. Stay tuned for my picks on Tuesday on Twitter. Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
What's your car strategy when you have the kid in the car, Curtis? iPad, just nothing. Look out the window. What do you do?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Well, you got a panoramic digital stage in the Audi, plus an optional screen for front seat passengers. Perfect for watching the latest sports documentary. The Q6 e-tron, not just the new EV, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. Before you go, Curtis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
So ESPN premiered their three-man lineup after the All-Star or three-broadcaster lineup. Doris, Richard Jefferson, and Breen. NBC announced that they're signing Reggie Miller to be the person next year. And it's just weird to me. It seems like in the NBA, for whatever reason, and maybe it's because they make too much money as players and the studio gig is easier. You get to whoever you want.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But it seems like the big names kind of gravitate to the studios. and not the games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Because you love Van Gundy. And I still, I went like I'd probably was too down on Van Gundy because I didn't really think about what it was going to be like when we didn't have him. And I really missed him in a game like last night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
But then they'll just have this 8-0 run out of nowhere and all of a sudden the game's 14-15. It's not even threes. It's like defense. It's a second chance rebound. It's SGA just scoring six points in a row. I think they're really scary. Do I think Denver could beat them in a series or the Lakers just by slowing things down by the pressure going up?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Three-person's hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't think there's enough time in basketball for the three people. And even like the Breen, Van Gundy, Jackson. Jackson really laid out. I mean, Jackson was... I don't know. It was Van Gundy's broadcast and then Jackson would chime in with stuff. But the balance, the usage rate... Jackson was lower. I think it's a hard thing to navigate because those games, it goes by so fast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
You have like a five, six minute stretch. That's just, it's going, going, going, going. I thought Steve Kerr was the best one that I'd heard. Um, there was even a moment this year when I was thinking when it seemed like the worst season might be going sideways, like, oh shit, could we get Steve back for TV? Cause that would be incredible. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I think it's probably a coach who's recently... I think Doc could have been really good last year if he hadn't left after 40 games. I think it's probably a coach... who has recently gone against everybody he's calling the games is probably the biggest advantage for this. And then the ability to actually be candid about what they're seeing. He's got to be done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I'm out. And now I'm going to be letting it fly from now on. But the other problem is, I think Wade could have been really interesting if he had just been like, all I want to do is be a TV color guy for games. But Wade's made $400 million or $380 million, whatever it was. He owns a piece of Utah. So I don't know if the money is the same. Whereas the NFL could be like, no, Tom Brady, come do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Here's $35 million. Or hey, Troy Aikman, keep doing this. Here's a lot of money. The money is just different. I just don't think it matters as much in basketball. In football, there's a weightiness you kind of need. for a big game, you really want to be in good hands with the right announcers. You really want to have them walk you through stuff and teach you stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I don't know if basketball needs that as much. Do you think it needs it, Priscilla? Like, do you feel like we needed like the greatest announcers ever for OKC Denver today? Because for the most part, you kind of know what's happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Legs did a good job today. That was one of the reasons I thought about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I wouldn't say no way, but OKC just has so many advantages. You mentioned the two bigs thing today. Their malleability now when they do that versus when they can go small, that's something they just didn't have last year. But the SGA piece of it, I was looking at it. I was looking at all the best guard seasons. He's having one of the best guard seasons, non-MJ, in the history of the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
One thing I liked about Van Gundy that I miss now, and I actually thought the game last night needed, maybe Jefferson could get there. There is a, you know, there's the what's happening in the game. You have that whole piece. What are the storylines coming to the game? Van Gundy was really good at like the Celtics last night. Tatum just doesn't come out for the whole first quarter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
They start the second quarter. Joe Maz leaves him out. He plays in the first 18 minutes of the game. And at some point during that, because I was texting with Celtic friends about it, we're like, oh shit, we're treating this like a game seven. Like this is really interesting that we're treating the game this way. Like we're going big minutes for the best guys in the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Like, hmm, this is an interesting subplot that's developing. And they just didn't talk about it on the broadcast. And I always thought Van Gundy, stuff like that didn't slide by him. And that's like kind of the last thing is like, when some sort of big thing is developing out of a game, you got to see it immediately. And if you don't, then why are you there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I remember when Jalen and I did a game with Tariko, we did like a Celtic Laker game, 2013 or 14. And Tariqo just let us do our thing for like 42, 43 minutes. Then last five minutes, it was like, OK, guys, I've got this. Then he just took over the last five. And I was like, oh, yeah, because it's ultimately it's a play by play sport. All right. I could talk about this stuff all day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Curtis, what do you care about this week for the pot or anything?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
We got the Cuban interview. That one is like, just apologize. You got it wrong. If you're going to have a platform, apologize when you fuck stuff up. That's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
That's fine. Cuban Cuban. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
When you're talking about team success, his like his production, his consistency. That was his, his, uh, 40th 30 point game today. He had another 40 point game, the way that he's played against other big teams, how consistent he is night to night, how unstoppable he kind of is. Um, I think that's probably the number one talking point with them now for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
He did express concern that Luca did not seem healthy. That was his thing. My dad was always scared of the Lakers with Davis. That was a real thing for him. He's always scared of teams with size in the playoffs when things slow down. So there you go. Before we go, quick question, Marcelo. So I was tweeting about, does the NFL salary cap matter when it goes up $30 million a year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
No, it's unbelievable. Why do we do these like hundred best free agents coming up and all of them are just going to resign with their teams because you can just spend whatever you want. Miles Garrett having a change of heart. Right. That was great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Let's ride.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, the more I'm thinking about it. Once you put that four... in the yearly salary instead of the three. I really started to like Cleveland a lot more. Is this bad for Parsons and the Cowboys though? It feels like it might be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, because with the cap, I get it. I understand. It keeps going up. And all you're doing is just pushing money to the next year and hoping that at some point you don't have to pay the piper. And then if you get in a Russell Wilson Denver situation, that's when it goes bad. Where it's like you keep pushing the money and then it's like, oh, this guy didn't work out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Now we are completely fucked for an entire season. But for the most part, it just seems like these teams can just... You know, Dallas is going to be able to afford Parsons. It just seems like all these teams can afford whoever they want. Well, because they can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Doesn't seem like it. Well, there's one way. I mean, you can, but not really.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
If you have the Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson, like big money thing that goes completely wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
It's like, where does this SGA season rank against some of the other great guard seasons we've seen in our lifetime? When you talk about Kobe and Harden and Curry and even somebody like Jordan, statistically, he's moved into that stratosphere, which to me is the biggest surprise.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, the Pats needed a left tackle and still do. And there was this long list of free agent left tackles and now all of them are gone. And then it's a complete panic on the Pats fans text threads because it's like our two choices now are to overpay somebody who's not good or to take a guy who might end up being a guard instead of a tackle with the fourth pick in the draft.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And it's just like, I thought we were getting Ronnie Stanley. That was on everybody's list. Oh, wait, he's going back to the Ravens. I don't get it. My favorite cap thing ever was that whenever the hockey lost its mind and people were given like 20-year contracts as a cap, Remember that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And it was like, this guy's going to have a 20-year, $80 million contract, and it gets spread out. It's like, what's going on? All right, Brian Curtis, great to see you as always. Russillo, I will see you next Sunday. I'm sure we'll see you at a home Lakers game since you're the new Diane Cannon. Kovalchuk, 17 years, $102 million with the Devils.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It would not be good. All right. Good to see you. See you next week, Priscilla.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. I hope you watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. Don't forget about the rewatchables coming Monday night. We did best in show. Threatening to become sports movie month. Who knows? And then a prestige TV podcast where we're hitting white Lotus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
We're also covering severance on there too. I'm not on that pod, but I am on the white Lotus recap pods on Sunday nights. And I have an absolute shitload of fun doing those with Mallory and Joanna. I will see you on this podcast on Tuesday. I,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
This Tuesday, I have Ryan Russillo come up in a second. We taped right after this. the OKC Denver game. And then Brian Curtis is going to join us midway through to talk about some of the crazy sports media shit that's going on and also some big picture sports media stuff. So this is an action-packed two hours. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping. It's 1230 Pacific time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Yeah, and they're in the same issue the Celtics are in with that top of the second quarter, top of the fourth quarter. Can Jalen Williams run the offense for like four or five minutes, which is the Jalen Brown issue with the Celtics sometimes. The SGA piece of it, just because I've been watching him really closely because I've been trying to think like if the Celtics see him in the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
Is there a way to defend this? What is he doing exactly? Right. And he's got basically three different things that he vacillates between. He has that thing. You just go to the basket. Like if you, if you fall asleep for a split second, he's got this first step and he can get to the rim and he can finish. But then he also has the, I'm going to pretend I'm going to do the get to the rim thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And I just stop. And there's no way your body momentum can stop with me. And then I'm going to be elevating as you're still trying to catch up. And I make a 15 footer. But then the third thing he does, and I don't know how you stop it. And he did it a couple of times in the fourth quarter today. He has the ball like, you know, top of the three, three point line, top of the key.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
And people are defending him and they're doing everything perfectly. And it just seems like he's trying to decide what to do and whether he wants to swing the ball. And then he'll just, he'll, he'll make like a subtle and all of a sudden he's shooting. And every single time the team is a split second late, I'm realizing he's about to take an 18-footer. And I don't know how he does it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis
I've never seen a guard... get these shots that he wants without the defense realizing that that's the shot he was setting up for. Like Brunson will do different versions of this, right? He has his little spots on the court and he has that herky jerker style, but I always know he's going to shoot SGA shooting as I'm registering.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Coming up Sundays, basketball, Rosillo, you know, the drill it's next. We're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network. We're having new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did an Oscar winner. You'll be able to watch that as a video podcast on Spotify. You can watch it on the ringer movies, YouTube channel as well. Uh, if you love the Oscars, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
So, uh, they could pass the buck and I'm not defending Darrell because I thought, uh, I would have rather resigned than give and beat that extension.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I would have been like, listen, I just, can you, can we just talk buyout? Cause this is the dumbest. I can't believe we're doing this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But then we're now in the bus-throwing stage with this Philly situation, and they're in a weird spot because if they get the seventh pick and they don't end up with one of these top six picks in a draft that's awesome, this is a catastrophic, we haven't had a season this bad for a team in 10 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Cleveland had a big Friday. We're covering it all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are taping this a little after 1230 Pacific time. Just watch Celtics Nuggets that we're going to talk about later. The star of Shot Caller 2 is here, Ryan Russillo. You look great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
We're two years away from that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Also, you watched him in the Olympics. You watched him in the Olympics not look 100%. So if you don't sign him, you still have under contract for two years. You can't do the wait and see that. What's he going to do? Like hold out? You know, it was just it's a catastrophic decision. And it was bad when it happened. We talked about it when it happened. We talked about it in our season preview.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
What did you think? Just out of curiosity, what was the worst decision than that extension?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Oh, fair. I thought you were talking off season. Yeah. Yeah. Lucas, you're right. Luca trades, uh, number one entrenched. I've gone to three Lakers games. Yeah. You're like, when are you buying a Jersey?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, it's the thing he used to do in Dallas. And I've been interested in why, because I know JJ knows it. I think JJ has done a really good job this year. Luca is one of those, do I have it or not in the first quarter guys, which I think Tatum's a little bit like this too, where they'll use the first quarter to see. Steph does it all the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And I think the Lakers have already been like, yeah, you figure out in the first quarter how you are. And I've been so impressed by LeBron just kind of all right, I'll, I'll wait and see too. And then I'll see where I fit in today. And then he always gets his stats and he's been, you know, I'm sure you saw it in person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I have this alternate pin-down defense I'm working on. Pin-down three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And even when you're watching them, it still feels like they have legitimate holes. And yet, collectively, they've figured out how to cover up for a lot of them. I still feel like the right kind of point guard can just get whatever shot they want. And then the bench, some of the bench guys I just don't trust at all, but it works.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And everybody, it's like JJ said this a couple weeks ago, that the biggest lesson he learned as coach during the season was it's all about whether your guys play hard. And it's the most simple point ever. It wouldn't be an interesting mind the game episode. But I think this is the recurring theme for the best teams in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
The listeners can't hear it, can't see it, but you got like a, it's like an early 2000s Red Sox setup guy, Fu Manchu kind of look. Is that a Van Dyke or a Fu Manchu?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Like all of them give a shit game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half. And the Lakers, to their credit, it's impressive. And then you look at Philly on the flip side of that. where how many times did you watch a Philly quarter where you're like, this is the worst thing I've ever seen? What's happening? How are they allowing this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Same for the Phoenix Suns, where they're just like, yeah, I'm just going to go in the corner. If I'm not getting the ball, I might not run back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Be careful. Be careful attacking him long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And they're like fourth in the last 20, I think, too. So it's getting better. Every 10-game stretch is better than the last 10-game stretch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You get two-way LeBron back as part of all this because he was one-way LeBron for two months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
He's been really good. The Philly thing, I don't know what the answer is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
The thing is, they're probably going to be sixth, and all it takes is one team to jump them. It's this incredible lottery thing because... If they don't keep the top six, one team jumps them and they fall back to seven. And then OKC gets that pick and OKC's, what, going to be like a 64-win team? Probably going to be in the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
They're going to get the seventh pick, eighth pick in this awesome draft that I've been dabbling in a little bit. I'm starting to get some draft opinions. We don't have to do that today, but this looks like if you're in the top five in this draft, you're getting somebody that is going to be legitimately exciting. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Like if you get edge call him with the fifth pick, it's like that guy might be awesome. He might be, um, you know, like an all NBA wing in seven years. I don't know. This draft draft just seems stacked, especially compared to this rookie class we just had. So anyway, uh, the Philly thing. Wow. And the Eagles won.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And I think the Philly fans are still riding a high, but, uh, it's hard to imagine a bleaker situation. Unless you're the Suns, because I think that one's slightly bleaker. There's really only the, we got to trade Booker move, and it just seems like they're adamant they're not going to trade him. I just don't think they're going to get a lot for Durant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Last year of his deal, making 50 plus million. I don't know what you're getting for him. You're 19 in the league. Clearly not exactly the same as where he was seven years ago. What are you getting for him? Not that much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Washington would be the most fun for me or San Antonio would be my reckless speculation. What do you have something better?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I love the bored with your face moments. Not just you, but me. I have them too, where you're just like, ah, fuck it. Grow a mustache. Didn't you do it for PTI? I did. We did. We did mustache week. Me and Levitard, we just both grew like big bushy, like buddy cop mustaches. Yeah, it's fun. Lately, I've been shaving.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Or is there a Booker trade that you just overwhelm them? I know you don't want to trade Devin Booker, but how about this? And for Phoenix, it's the only get out of jail free card they have, basically. And Houston has some Phoenix picks too, is the other piece of that. So I just don't think Ishby is going to be like, okay, cool. Now we're going to tank.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
We're going to do the process for a couple of years. I think that dude is wired the opposite way, where we can get out of this. If we could just do this. My favorite story of the whole post-trade deadline was that Minnesota was trying to trade for Durant. That was my favorite.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I just want to know how that trade's possible between Phoenix and Minnesota when they're both like well over the second apron. What is the scenario where those two teams could have made a Kevin Durant trade? It's like, well, if Minnesota had been able to shed some apron stuff, cool. Where were they doing that? Just, hey, can you guys take Randall? Sure, we'll take him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
How are they shedding apron? I can't take some of the, some of the, after the fact. And I know where it's coming. Like Minnesota is like, you know, they leak it to whoever. We're kicking the tires on Durant. We really try to, yeah, you can run with this. We're really trying to get them. How? You're not getting Kevin Durant. Who are you trading for him? You can't make a two for one in the apron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. And Milwaukee had no idea he was available. It's great. There's some really good ones. Let's, uh, let's take a break. And then, uh, There's one big topic I want to hit with you. This episode is brought to you by Miclobe Ultra. Miclobe Ultra, a superior light beer and the ultimate trophy. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
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This is going up before the Oscars, but Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins will be reacting to the Oscars, I think right after the telecast. So check out the big picture for that. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where I don't know if you know, but we're doing these player performance doubles with FanDuel. Two leg parlays already made for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Alcohol available only in select markets. Let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that FanDuel has right now. Player performance doubles. Check them out. Two leg parlays made specifically for you. They take an NBA player prop. They combine it with the bet on that player's team to win. There's a bunch of them. Pick the one you like. So if it's like, I like Denver tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I also think Jokic is going to have 10 rebounds. Let me do those together. You can ride their pick or my pick because I'm tweeting mine out on Tuesday or make your own pick. Fando giving all customers a profit boost exclusively on Tuesdays for these bets. So head to Fando.com slash BS to get your profit boost. Make every moment more with Fando, America's number one sports book.
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You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. All right. I hate devoting an entire segment to this, but it's been bugging me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
That feels like a move now to be like, yeah, I'm going to shave like a couple of times a week. Back with the shaving.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And I just feel like we have to talk about it because it became a huge topic on Friday. And I always judge this stuff by anecdotally, if people in my life are asking about us, like, ah, fuck, we probably have to talk about it. But LeBron started this whole thing with the face of the game and how negatively everybody's covering the league. And there was a Gilbert Arenas clip on first take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
talking about how nice everyone was back in the day to the stars, and now they're not. And I just, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because I've been here the whole time. I think I have a really good handle historically of the league and all the ebbs and flows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Thank you. I think this is the nicest era to be an NBA star that we've ever had. And, um, it's amazing to me when, when people dwell on the negativity, there's other reasons for the negativity, but if you go backwards and you look at the seventies and the eighties and nineties and two thousands and how players were treated and discussed, it is no contest compared to right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Um, that's the first thing. And I have some stuff I want to do, but give me your initial take on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But that's the point. It's not just the NBA. Everyone has more access to the alternate side of what you want to hear in all vocations in life. It's not an NBA thing. It's an everything thing. So to say it's just devoted to the NBA to me is like ludicrous. This is just what life is like now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Well, so this is the problem with this argument is that if you actually go through it, everybody has gone through the exact same stuff that the guys go through now. So I'm going to do my three minute first take monologue. We have time. 1970s. People hated the NBA. The games were tape delayed and people bitched about the league and were writing crazy pieces about this league doesn't work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
There's actually pieces you could read in Sports Illustrated. The league's too black. What are we going to do? Like it could not have been more negative. I promise you. Dr. J, beloved star, gets to Philadelphia. He's ripped for not winning a title for the first six years until Moses gets there. That's a huge narrative of the Dr. J thing. He can't come through when it matters. Magic Johnson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Westhead gets fired in 81. He's booed at home. He's devastated, destroyed, crushed. It's most selfish guy. What's wrong? These are the modern athletes. He went through all that shit and he's talked about it. He's crushed after the 84 finals to Larry Bird after the title in his back pocket. Right, he already would. Larry Bird had already won two in the 85 finals. There was the bar fight thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Everyone was mad at him in Boston. But then in the 90 season, when he came back from the heel surgery, took a ton of shit about being selfish. Barkley was basically driven out of Philly by the media. Hakeem almost got traded in 92 because it got so bad with him in Houston. Isaiah... Just got the reputation as you're an asshole, you're a backstabber. They left him off the dream team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Michael Jordan, beloved now, too selfish to win for seven years. Up until the 91 finals, it's like he shoots too much. All he cares about is his own points. He can't win with this guy. And then after he went twice, remember in the 93 playoffs, it was so negative about the gambling stuff. He stopped talking to everybody. He stopped talking to the media. And then he retired.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And people are like, is he retiring? Because it's too much pressure. Kevin Johnson took a ton of shit, couldn't stay healthy, 94 finals. Pippen didn't take the shot in the 94 playoffs and still carries it 30 years later. David Robinson, too nice, loser. Well, didn't he come back in? Right, when they come back in and then wore that, you know, for 30 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Dream Team 94, I promise you, was not popular when it happened. People were not happy with it. Shaq, in the entire 1990s, people bitched about Shaq. When is he going to take basketball seriously? Why does he do all this other stuff? Why is he doing movies and music? Patrick Ewing could have won the big one. Carl Malone, who took more shit than Carl Malone in the last two finals he was in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Iverson, which I think has come around and is like this beloved figure now. He was not beloved in the 90s, in the early 2000s. He took a ton of shit. Christian Laettner, bust, disappointment. All those late 90 guys, when we head into that lockout, remember how much people, how mad people were at the league? These guys are making so much money. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There was any Anderson can't feed his family, all that shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's like, I can't identify with somebody who's making that much money. That was an attitude through the 90s. I have a couple more. Jason Kidd traded twice, took a ton of shit. Chris Weber. One of those trades. Well, one of those trades had to happen. But the Dallas trade, Chris Weber was an all-time hot potato guy and we called him out all the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
His Washington career was incredibly disappointing. He got to Sacramento and it's like, watch C-Web. He's going to turn completely away from the basket to hit the ball to make Bibby. He wants no part of this. We made fun of him. Kobe, I would say was the most picked apart athlete in the 2000s. I wouldn't even say football player. And that you might go Peyton Manning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But there was a lot of Kobe stuff that then when he won the two titles at the end of the decade, then they kind of circled around the other way. But it got right. And there was the trial. There was a whole bunch of stuff with Kobe. But if you go to the 0-4 finals, 0-5, 0-6, 0-7, him not shooting in the second half of that Suns game, and how nuts we all went after the fact. Not great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
T-Mac, can't win. Vince, quit on Toronto. He's soft. KG, can't win. Dirk, who took more shit than Dirk from 06 to 2011. He's soft. He's a choke artist. He's a loser. I think he took probably, other than Kobe the most, Dwight Howard. I keep going. The point is, For whatever reason, this has been the league. And I think it's because you have these personalities that drive teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
People feel really attached to them. Either they're defensive and passionate about them or they're mad at them. And that's just the ebb and flow in the league. I honestly think it's better than it's ever been with this stuff. You can find hate anywhere if you go online. Doesn't mean that people hate. LeBron has like 50 million Instagram followers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It is funny. So how many years ago was that? Like early 2010s range?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I feel like people destroyed them back in the day. I thought that was a big narrative of his career. It's like, yeah, he's super fun, but he's Bird of Magic won titles and he didn't. My point is, this has been a narrative that we've heard forever. And if you don't win titles and you don't come through, In the NBA, you're going to take crap. But I also feel like that goes for the NFL, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Cam was still in college. So it's like, I think it's 15 years ago that game. I remember between the first and second years when I was on the countdown show and I showed up for something during the summer and I had a beard and everybody was like, you're not going to have that on TV, right? Like they were freaked out by it. It does feel like the beard, the beard stuff has shifted.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It goes for baseball with somebody like Clayton Kershaw. This is what we do with sports. If you don't win the title... We don't even do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
He said that, that was when I did that interview with him at the Sloan Conference. That's when he started talking about the unhappiness with the players. And that was 2018 range. So it's been a storyline for seven years. Yeah. It's like why aren't our players happier?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, we have Otani and nobody's like, oh, Otani, face of the league. I don't know where the face of the league is. It's more personal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You got helmets on during game. I've said this forever. Basketball is the most naked sport. Whether you're at the game or you're watching TV, you feel like you have this connection with players. Yeah. That's just different than the other sports. It just is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Especially if you're going and you're watching them and you're watching them during timeouts, you're watching them interact in foul lines and during free throws. And I think the social media aspect of it where they can connect to fans immediately, they can see feedback immediately. Obviously, that's not awesome. But I think in some ways it's better for them too because...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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you know, in the old days you could just like, whatever. Like I think of back to the Peter Vesey, New York post pieces of the eighties. And he would just like, you know, he was just absolutely completely eviscerate people. He called Alonzo morning, the Oregon groaner. Right. Uh, it's, uh, it's just a little different now. Um, and you can mobilize people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then COVID, it just was full bloom. COVID was kind of the apex mountain for beards. Everyone was just like, I don't care anymore. Yeah, that cranked it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You can mobilize all your followers against somebody. There's, I, the, the face of the week thing. Yeah. What? That's another one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, I think it goes together. I think, I think with the face of the week thing, we, we probably see it the same way. You don't talk about it. It's not like the people magazine sexiest man of the year issue where we just nominate somebody. Yeah. Is that who it was this year? You, uh, you kind of take it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And when you think about, when I was in the 80s loving basketball, I was never like, I wonder who the face of the league is right now. We didn't talk about it. We didn't talk about it in the 90s. Bird and Magic, because Magic won a title as a rookie and Bird won the title in his second year, the league just sort of shifted to them because they won. And then Bird had the three MVPs, two titles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Then Magic had three MVPs in four years. And he won two titles. And it was just obvious those were the guys. And then Jordan beat Magic in the 91 finals. And guess what? That made him the guy. And then Jordan went through all the 90s. And then it was like Shaq and Kobe together. I guess this is their league now. And then that fell apart. And in the mid-2000s, we're like, Duncan, Spurs, sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, no... It wasn't like we're like Tim Duncan's now the face of the league. Because one of the cases you see with this face of the league stuff is like, oh, if Tatum wins three in a row, he's now the face of the league. I don't think it works that way. It kind of organically happens. Kobe had it at the end of the 2000s. Eventually it shifted to LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then it shifted to LeBron and Curry together. And that's... Just kind of what happened. We can't nominate Anthony Edwards. It's not like this would happen in tennis sometimes, especially in the eighties. It'd be like Boris Becker. See the face of tennis now. Cause he won Wimbledon once. It's like, it's not how it works. You kind of ease into it. Nobody would pick Agassi.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then it eventually became, Oh, it's Agassi and Sampras. What about it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I, he, it never took, it kept falling off him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, but the point with the face of the league now is like, yeah, it's still Stephen Curry. And then somebody is going to have to win a couple of titles and take it from him. But if Wendy comes in and wins two straight titles and he's the best part in the league, he's the face of the league. I just don't know what that means. We're solo. What does the face of the league mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think the two of them together are really in the last 10 years, uh, I do. I think it's the two of them together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So he's not going to try to win the finals? If he wins the title and he's the best player in the league, guess what? you get whatever this amorphous, made-up face of the league thing is because you become the guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But there's a popularity piece that Jokic just doesn't have. He's just not going to have. That's why to me, it's Curry and LeBron are the meal tickets to the league. They're the guys who are going to be in the Saturday 830 game the most. They're the guys who are going to sell the most jerseys, have the most interest. And if they're on a good team, people are going to care the most.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, I would just have an opinion on his opinion. I don't think it's true, though. Because I think when you hit the point where you're kind of the guy in the league or one of the two guys, there's a lot of great stuff that comes with that. You know, you make the most money, you make the most money off the court. You probably have the best chance to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You can convince the most people to come play with you on like a, you know, on a buyout contract. You can put the most pressure on your owners to do whatever you want them to do. You can make them trade everything they have for Anthony Davis. Like there's real benefits to it. I don't think it's like this heavy burden. I think for Ant, it's more a scrutiny thing that he's probably talking about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like, hey, if you hit this level you're going to be picked apart in a way that's just a little different. But that's, I mean, that could be anybody, right? That could be Timothee Chalamet right now. That could be whoever is like, whoever you think is the biggest hip hop star right now. It doesn't, it just kind of comes to the territory if you're the best at anything you do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I don't, I don't know why that would be a burden. There's, there's good and bad to everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You're not going to change your mind. There's a topic for us. There's nothing else we could say about the suns this year at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right. Or how you treated all-star weekend, which was, you know, the first time the football season ends, the first time basketball is really in the limelight for real is all-star weekend and that everybody treats it like shit. And it's like, we're supposed to say thanks. Yeah. Like what's our, what's our role? Everyone went to all this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I've talked to a bunch of people to all star weekend and they were all like, it was fucking miserable. It sucked. It was awful. And the timing of it is so bad. For all the good players, like nothing, you don't care.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But that's just life. I think everybody... I don't think that's a basketball situation. I think that's... What part isn't like that? I'm just saying like the internet breeds that. If you go to... Are you like that to your family? No, I'm saying you go and then Twitter applies. You go on a Reddit. I remember I was at a...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I went to Goldsberry's class in Austin and they did all these studies on different things about how to follow basketball. And one of the, one of the things was about NBA Reddit, just the percentages of positive tweets versus negative tweets are not a post negative post comments versus positive about the league. And if I just told you they did that, what would your response be?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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What would you think it would be? It would probably like, what would the ratio be for you? Just guessing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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No, it wasn't that bad. I prejudice you with my lead in, but it was like 35, 65 or 30, 70, something like that. But just people are more prone when they're on any sort of forum like that to be negative than positive. You just have to know that going in. I would argue that people at the games... are way nicer, way nicer. It's not even close.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I would love for people to go in a time machine and go to like the fleet center in 1996, just get a feel for what those two hours were like with like an angry, you know, fan base that didn't like the product and just had the freedom to just yell at everybody. Like it's, now I look now, I think it's actually like a pretty nice experience. Like there'll be stories about, oh, there was a heckler
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
who yelled at somebody, they kicked him out. It's like, fuck it, hey, like there was 30 of those. I remember going to a Golden State Sacramento game when I was visiting my buddies in San Francisco in like 98. And I had no idea that the Golden State fans hated Chris Webber so much. So it was 99, it was that first season. And they were just booing him, yelling him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It was like a two and a half hour Chris Webber roast. in the stands, anything he did, they're going nuts like that. Those days are over. We don't see Durant and OKC. That comeback game was probably the last time anything like that happened, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Well, baseball, everyone's on their phone. So that's probably the safest place you can be an athlete. People aren't even looking up unless a foul ball's coming at them, which can't happen because there's a net.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And what could you yell at the other players and stay in the park?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We're not defending the past. It's just the way it was. I just think every era is a little bit different. Listen, if players feel a certain way, I'm certainly going to tell them not to feel that way. I do think a big piece of this is self-inflicted, though, by the league. The schedule's too long.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
If we had a 70-game season or a 60-game season, I don't have to watch these extra 20 games of the Suns, right? There's more urgency for the games. The load management stuff, which we've talked about ad nauseum, that made it hard for fans to connect with the league and players, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Well, but I think it made it hard. It was something that got brought up. And I do think it mattered to fans that they bought a ticket and the guy wasn't there. That's a real thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I would have a beard way more often, but mine just gets white and it actually, it used to hide some stuff, but now it's like you actually look younger when you don't have the beard. There's been some weird phases since, ever since I could shave. I think sideburns were a really weird stretch in that 92 to 94 stage inspired by Brandon and Dylan on 90210.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Or, or like Philly before the start of the season, when there was pieces about here's their plan to win a championship. And it was like, Hey, a part of the plan is that a beat stock could play back to back soon. Right. But here's what they're trying to do. They're trying to be healthy. But Embiid's not going to play back-to-backs anymore. His name might be fucked up. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Or the Philly situation or all of it. I just feel like for us, like one of the reasons I think we connected and became friends and we like doing the pod together is we really love basketball. Like both of us will be watching these random games on stupid nights and we really give a shit about it. And... You can't just talk about all the stuff you like. You got to have a little balance both ways.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But I think we celebrate the game as much as we criticize it. There's other shows and personalities that I think kind of dine in the, this gets me attention if I do this. I don't feel like we do that. I always feel like we're having a conversation about things we like and don't like about the league. I love watching Detroit right now. I could do 10 minutes on Ron Holland right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I fucking love Ron Holland. Ron Holland's, I haven't even watched, I probably watched 15% of the Pistons games or pieces 20%. Ron Holland seems like he's ready to get into it with everybody on every team. He's like 19 years old. I really like watching them. I appreciate the Pistons. I'm excited to watch them play the Knicks in round one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then all of a sudden people were doing different sideburns things for like a year and a half. That was weird. Um, there was also the high flat top look was in for a little bit. Like there's definitely been some weird stages looking back on what was going on there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think if you lose that side of things, it becomes harder for me to take your criticisms seriously. You still have to fundamentally like what you're watching. I don't feel like some people out there do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I thought he was going to get fired this weekend. I really did. I thought there was going to be like a Don Nelson next thing. All right, let's take a quick break because I want to keep talking about this. So one last thing on the, uh, on whether people are too critical or not. I can't believe we spent this much time talking about, but I do think it's interesting. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
it seems like the rise of the X player podcasts and voices has contributed to this whole, when everybody's like, we're, we spent too much time comparing the past to the present. And I think the social media piece of that too, where you see all these videos and these breakdowns of this guy against this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Um, I just really hope that people realize, and I like some of the X player stuff, how unreliable they are as narrative narrators. Um, Um, these are people that were playing the entire time. They might have opinions based on who they're against. It's not like they spend a ton of time thinking about different eras of the league and stars and comparing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
So, and you'll just see stuff on the, on these shows or pods or on your, on your social feed where you're like, what are we doing? Like, like, I just feel like the discourse is, big picture about basketball as it relates to errors in the past is like the worst it's ever been. And I don't think that's helping with some of this stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
That was just one example. Where I'm just like, just go back. Go read some of the books. Go read Phil Jackson's book about Kobe in 2005. You can't just pretend stuff didn't happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
What a terrible thing to do during a break at a show. Right, because then what happens?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, you left. Right. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I was talking about the X players.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Although there has been some good content lately. Did you see the Vernon Maxwell on All the Smoke talking about when Hakeem slapped him? That was one of the best three minutes I've spent all year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I love Barnes and Captain Jack because I think when they talk about basketball and the history and how it relates now, I actually believe in their opinions on it. I've had them on the pod and we were arguing about Kobe versus Duncan, who was the guy in... No, they both were Kobe. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. But they made compelling cases for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And it's like, that's what's fun about basketball is arguing about different things. I have never, the first time I ever remember even thinking about who the face of the league was, was when MJ was retiring and we were kind of like, what do we do now? And then it was like, is it Grant Hill? It went on for years. Is it Iverson? But it was more like there was such a void.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
NFL has never really had to deal with it because they always have two or three quarterbacks who are just there ready to roll, right? Like Brady and Manning had it forever. And then Aaron Rodgers was just right there. And then he moves in. And then all of a sudden Mahomes showed up and he's there. And Joe Burrow. And they always have two or three dudes. Josh Allen's in there now. Lamar.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Um, maybe a couple other guys will pop in over the next couple of years, but they always have the four to five, the NBA, there will be stretches. We felt it in the mid two thousands. It was like, what do we do? Kobe's on shitty teams. We thought it was going to be him. Shaq's getting old. Duncan's not clicking with people, you know, um, is it Dwayne Wade? Oh, Dwayne Wade. Oh, six finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Maybe it's Dwayne Wade. And it was just a lot of that for, um, Basically all the way through until we ended up with LeBron and Kobe as kind of the guys. But I just think it's way more organic than us deciding. Ant can be the face of the league if he kicks everybody's ass and wins the title and is clearly the best guy in the league. That's how it happens. There's no other scenario. Right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And then he's selling shoes and people talk about him and people like my mom know who he is. Those are all the checkpoints you have to hit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
you know, when you see it, that's probably not going to work as like the lead guy. And I think Grant Hill was a good example. Grant Hill was awesome, but I never felt like he was, there was like a sense of like, almost like danger missing with him. Right. And then Duncan was the same thing. Duncan was the best guy. I still have Duncan like sixth or seventh all, I think I am seventh all time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Take an NBA player prop, combine it with a bet on that player's team to win. And starting this week, We will have a ringer PBT on a player performance bet placed on one of the Tuesday games. Rockets, Pacers, Warriors, Knicks, Bucks, Hawks, Nets, Spurs, Clippers, Suns. I'm going to tweet out my pick on Tuesday. Stay tuned.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I feel like that was baseball related because baseball really had that big comeback in the late 90s, early 2000s. Steroids driven, Yankees driven, Yankees versus Red Sox, Bonds and the home run McGuire. And then the relievers and the home run sluggers all started having weird facial thing and it just took off. Remember Duncan tried it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Um, and I still think he was the best guy of the two thousands. And yet there was never a moment where people were like, Duncan, like they ignored a lot of the stuff that he did. They focused on the wrong things and he just didn't care, right? And I think Tatum is a little bit like that now where Tatum's never gonna be the best guy in the league, I don't think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But he could be the most successful guy of this decade, right? He could be the guy when we leave the 2020s, the guy that was the best guy in the most title teams, but he doesn't have that sense of, That whiff of something, that same thing with Duncan and Grant Hill, where it's just like you have to pull on everybody and there's something about Tatum that seems like it doesn't click with people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I don't know what it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But was really polarizing when he was playing. I think people like you and I were probably in the minority of, like, I fucking love Iverson. I love how hard he plays. But there's other people that... You know, we're like, eh.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But as far as like, but is that everything though? It's not just the NBA. I feel like that every aspect of life is like that now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, the whole concept of celebrity and how fast people can get it and then how fast they can lose it. I feel like that process has definitely been sped up. I say it with like my daughter when I'm always, I'm always asking her like, what are you watching? Who do you care about? What's your favorite podcast? What's your favorite video podcast? And it always seems to change.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Every, I think it was the canceled podcast, but I think now they had some shit. What's interesting is it's like the same cycle over and over again where she really likes somebody and then be like, why don't you listen to that podcast anymore? Oh, they had a meltdown. Oh, one of the co-hosts got canceled. Oh, they ended up turning on each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Duncan had a year in the early 2000s when Duncan went with like the shaved head. Got a little like your look right now, but it was like, what are you doing? You're Tim Duncan. Why are you trying this? What are you trying to look like? He almost looked like Dennis Haysburg.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And it's just like the internet just like hyper charges all of these kind of rises and falls with all of these different social media characters. It's hard to keep up with. Basketball, you have the same rise and fall stuff, but the guys are making $50 million a year. That's like Kevin Durant's on the top of the world in 2018. And then he's down and then he's up and then he's down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Then he goes to Phoenix. It's going to be great. Now he's down. Oh my God, they're trading him. Now he's going to, maybe he gets traded to San Antonio in July. It's like, oh, Kevin Durant can teach Wimbinyama how to win. And it's just like a fucking rollercoaster. And maybe that's what LeBron was talking about. That the scrutiny and the rollercoaster ride of all this is really hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And if you're the face, I'm sure it's a bigger rollercoaster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Well, that's where it gets, that's where it's hard to take it seriously where it's like, so you didn't want this the whole time when you're doing Nike ads in 2003 and you did a special to change teams. And so you, you didn't want, you weren't excited for this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
He definitely has such a big platform now. When he talks about stuff candidly, it really does have reactions that last two to three days sometimes. He does make people think. Um, I think that, you know, the mind, the game pod about some of the dialogue about that, about we had to do this pod to save basketball discourse. I take stuff like that probably a little bit personally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Cause it's, he's basically, I don't know. We spent like going back to Graylin and the ringer. We've, we've tried to elevate discussion on pods and writing and all this stuff. And, uh, I think a lot of people have. So when somebody is saying nothing's elevated, you're kind of like, well, I mean, we're trying, you know?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Remember we did that one podcast right after they changed the CBA and both of us were so freaked out and we were doing, it was like, we were like trying to take a boat and cross the Pacific ocean. We were like, but then there's this other, we were like so nervous. We didn't understand it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, so I don't know if we have the answer. My point is I think the NBA has always had more than a twinge of negativity to it. And I think it has to do with the personalities and the experience of going to games and having those guys right in front of you and the fact that there's a connection that's just different. Baseball used to have it. I think the net has really hurt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I know why they have it. I get all the reasons. But the net is just tough. You think the net has ruined baseball? I'm not saying it's ruined baseball. I think it's tough. I think it's tough. I don't even notice it. Really? Yeah. Oh, man. I used to love the energy of like, this might be the pitch where a foul ball comes over here. Oh, you like being on your toes. Loved it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Nobody's on their toes anymore in baseball. Middle linebacker. People are just crossing the highway, not worried about getting hit by a car when they go to a baseball game. Now you just be on your phone for 20 minutes. You feel the energy around it. It's definitely different. Let's take one more break and then we got to talk about the Celtics weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So I'm going to give you biggest red flags for every contender. Just quickly, you tell me if you agree. I didn't prep you for this. Cleveland, lack of playoff experience. I would go, which just jumps to your head immediately. That's the only thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Save that because I want to come back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Boston, hunger, health, and mileage would be my three. Just the mileage on the guys from the 100-game season last year. The fact that they won last year. A team like Cleveland is just going to be a whiff hungrier. And the health of Porzingis and Drew, I think, would be the three things that worried me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. Where... Everything's happening 40 feet from the basket. Oh, we got this. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I like the term hunt happy. Congratulations on that. Here's... I agree with you, by the way. I wish they would just run plays every once in a while to mix it up. Just every once in a while, just put Tatum at the foul line and give him a Dirk Nowitzki post-up just so it's not the same thing over and over again where we're just hunting guys, hunting guys, hunting guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Because I do think the defenses can get in the rhythm of knowing it's coming and figuring out tricks. Denver, and we'll talk about that game in a second, but they just have no room for error at all. If they're not making threes, it gets tough. If anyone, if Gordon's out or Murray's hurt or even Brown's hurt, it gets super tough for them. If Westbrook just sucks, it's almost like they can't
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
They can't fight it. And it's just, I think they could win three straight rounds. I think they could go four and three and three straight playoffs series or four and two, but it's not going to be a team that's like ripping through the playoffs. There's just too many ways. It seems like it go wrong. Game to game would be my red flag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He went he went blonde for a bit. I've never died or done anything. I just can't do it. I'm just like, if nature is taking me a certain direction, so be it. It's the way it's going to have to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I have them fourth as well, but I also feel the Jokic piece... When we get to a playoff where they just are playing the same team for two straight weeks. I think that's good for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I know. Well, the thing that's alarming, the open threes today, how many just wide open threes they took compared to, did they even shoot 40%?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that's what would scare me if I'm them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, the celebrity game really shook you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And if I'm Denver, I feel great. It was a one possession game. I didn't have Gordon, who's my third most important guy. And I still, if I'm Denver, and I know I can be in crunch time in the playoffs with Jokic and Porter and Gordon and Murray and Brown, I still feel really good about where I'm at. If I could just get into fourth quarters with those five guys, not get crushed on those Jokic minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But, you know, even like somebody like Torrey Craig feels like they could have helped them. I kind of like the Celtics sneaking out the Torrey Craig move. Denver doesn't have enough guys I trust. OKC, red flag, just the second score, lack of experience thing. Just ultimately, if they're down four on the road in a really big playoff game and... A team is just swarming Shea and double teaming him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Who's stepping up? I just want to see it. I'm not down on it, but we just haven't seen it. It's very similar to the Celtics last year. I just want to see what happens with that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Do you want to do favorite bench guys right now? Want to do a team? Because my favorite bench guy is Ty Jerome, just hands down. Ty Jerome comes in and the score changes immediately. He does nine things. I love Ty Jerome. I genuinely think he's going to make $60 million this summer. I'm predicting that now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Oh, nice. Joining on Thursday. Great. I'm a huge fan. I love when he comes in. He it's exactly, he's like the most pure bench guy in the league comes in. It's going to play as eight, nine minutes, however long it is. He's going to affect the game. He's going to make a shot. He's going to have energy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Um, and in that Friday night South, the game, I was like, fuck, I, I hope they don't close with Ty Jerome. Cause Ty Jerome is a problem. Um, by the way, Wiggins is up there for me as a favorite bench guy too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Ty Jerome, Wiggins. I'm trying to think who else are my favorites. I still enjoy Quentin Grimes. I wish he was on a good team. A bunch of the Detroit guys. They play a million dudes. They're playing 11 guys. Detroit brings their guys in and they're all playing really hard and they're ready to rough people up and get in fights. Red flag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Lakers is easy rim protection and defending at the other team's point guard. If it's somebody who can get to the rim, I think it's going to be a problem for them that they could figure it out. And then Golden State turnovers and ball handling. They still have the dumbest turnovers. Doesn't matter who's on the team. They're just going to have dumb turnovers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
They're going to have really bad turnovers and crunch time. I think it's aging Steve Kerr and like dog years watching. I think it drives him nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's the fatal flaw for Steph.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And then the last red flag, Memphis. I know you want to do some Memphis stuff really quick, and then we'll circle back to the Friday-Sunday Celts games if there's anything left. But the jaw not being able to make outside shots doesn't seem like it, and how everything is so dependent on him just getting to the rim.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I just feel like it's going to be easy to stop in a playoff series, and it, for me, lowers their ceiling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You 10 out of 10, your luck factor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
This happened to Boston last year, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
There's just this weird... When you say around the league, there's a feeling like there's not a total respect. This was the Boston situation last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Does it ever happen? This circles back to the Cleveland piece a bit because I think Cleveland... is fucking terrifying. I've said this to you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I want to see who's healthy on the Boston side. Okay, look, let's just... If you said go to the head right now, what do I think is going to happen? I think it's going to be really hard to win a game seven in Cleveland. I think Mitchell... could not be less afraid of the Boston Celtics. And he's been this way for most of the decade. He loves playing them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
They have two awesome guards, one who didn't play Friday, and they have length with swings, and they can't stop him. And if it gets to a situation where there's a couple big playoff games in a series, he's going to think he can beat whoever the best Boston guy is. And he did it on Friday night. He was the best guy on the floor in the second half. Um, they have length. Mobley's better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Mobley was awesome in that fourth quarter on Friday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Well, but there was no Porzingis, no Drew. So it's hard to overreact one way or the other. But the Mitchell piece and their bench, which is real. Hunter, who has always done pretty well against the Celts, who has size, who can at least make guys think and they don't have to play a Coro. I think Cleveland's really good. And you know what my other reason is? They only have 10 losses.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Oh, that little, he was smaller, right? Josh somebody?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's March 2nd. Cleveland's good. They should be the favorite. And Boston is the favorite on Fandle. They're minus 150. Cleveland's plus 270. I think Boston could beat Cleveland.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I think they could, right. No, but Boston was the prohibitive favorites, and the odds have not caught up to Cleveland yet. They're plus 270, and they're going to have home court advantage twice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
in uh any boston series that's a real thing um right go ahead well i like the way they match up against okc too there's some garland stuff with them that boston they really went after it in the friday game where they're like we're just gonna attack them we're gonna bully him we're gonna use our wings and um and their refs were awful my dad was the most upset about the refs that he's been in two years coming home um could not believe tatum had five free throws
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Look, you can excuse that game any way you want. That was an awesome win for Cleveland. To fall down like they did, to have Tatum do the get the fuck out of here thing, and then for them to come back, and them knowing that Mitchell might be the best guy in the series if you're just talking about who can score in a fourth quarter on both sides.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
So if I'm Cleveland, I'm delighted by how the season's going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
He's getting all the shots he wants. He gets the threes he wants. He gets the matchups he wants. He gets the runners he wants. He can get to the rim. And this will be like, you did that drew holiday extension, right? You did it to make him feel good about last season, heading into the playoffs, but ultimately you're trying to go back to back. And that's a lot of money for a guy who's 34.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
So were you the guy who tried to Josh Hutchinson? Were you the guy who tried too hard in the celebrity game? Cause in my game, it was the actor, Jesse Williams, who just was going all out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Who's got now like a fucked up finger, but this is, that's going to be the series for drew holiday, that Mitchell series, what he can do against Mitchell will be the entire contract. Because I don't think anyone else, White doesn't seem like he can get a handle on him. And they're just putting everybody else in switches and it's going to have to be Holiday, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's mid 2000s Wade with three point range is what he reminds me of because he can get he can get to the basket. He can get in the paint, but he also has this three point shot that Wade never had. And he's just so athletic. And it's just who is the right guy to guard him when he's feeling it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But that was one of the best Tatum games he's ever had. He was like he was just the matchups and spots he was picking. I thought he was incredible in that game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I agree with you. I couldn't believe the odds. I couldn't believe they were plus 270 with home court. I was stunned. The thing you mentioned... Down 25-3 and then you win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I'm glad you mentioned that Allen not playing in crunch time because I actually thought there was a chance they were going to bench Garland in crunch time and play Ty Jerome because he was so good in that game. They have different lineups they can do, right? They can go a little smaller. They go a little bigger. They can go big in their backcourt.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
If they feel like Garland is too much of a defensive liability and Mitchell's feeling it, they can just yank him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook page. app. Last thing to plug before we get to the podcast, Celtic City, the documentary series we did about the Boston Celtics. It's nine episodes over nine weeks. It is on Max and HBO. It premieres Monday night. Get ready for it. Once a week. It's old school. You can watch an episode. You can think about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
one threat I was on was convinced that Joe Maz didn't play Torrey Craig in that fourth quarter and did all that Hauser stuff because he didn't care about the game because they're the two seed anyway. He wanted Cleveland because Joe Maz is, you know, he looks at things completely different than everybody else, but he's like, I don't really care about this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I'm going to try this and see if it works. If it doesn't work, I just won't do it if we're actually in a playoff series. The Porzingis piece, I think, is still going to be a genuine problem for the Cavs if he's healthy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
That's the matchup because the other thing is he allows, when Mitchell's going to the basket, now there's somebody coming over with their hand up who's just a little bit of a different person to contend with.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
If we're doing percentages and it's, we're going to a hundred percent, a hundred percent percentages, Boston, Cleveland, that's it. I would say it's like, you love when I do this. I would say it's like, I'm writing it down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I would say it's 55, 45 Cleveland in my mind. I think there's more outcomes when Cleveland beats Boston than vice versa. And I think that Game 7 in Cleveland really matters. And everyone always discounts this shit. And we've had some upsets. We had Minnesota go into Denver and beat them in a Game 7. I know there's games where that happens. But Mitchell, this might be like a Mitchell year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I wouldn't rule it out. And it's also, he's an interesting MVP guy now because... It's obviously Shane Joker as the top two. And I think Tatum's third. But if Cleveland ends up like 67 and 15 with all the stuff, you almost have to have a cab in the top. It'd be weird for them not to have someone in the top three. And it's clearly Mitchell. But amazing year by him. Kudos to him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I was a little iffy on him last year with... some of the decision making. This year, I'm not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
You think about, you think about that Friday game and again, no Drew, no KP, but Tatum had 46, 16 and nine in the Celtics lost at home. That's a little alarming. Tatum had, I think, the best all-around regular season game I've ever seen him have. And especially the rebounds with him, which just every game now it feels like he's going to get to 10-plus rebounds and 7-plus assists.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
His decision-making was amazing, and the Celtics still lost. So if I'm Cleveland, I feel great about that. All right. I think we agree on that. And I would still have OKC. I guess the last piece we didn't talk about and we probably should really quick is just maybe there's not a lot to talk about that the Lakers... I just think both of us are taking them seriously as a real playoff team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Just because... It's two weeks. You just have to go four and three to get to the next round. Is that a team that can go four and three every two weeks? I think it is. So I'm taking them seriously. I still feel like Denver is above them. And I like your idea of Denver being in the slight layer under the top three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I would still have them fourth, whether you're going to like under tier it or however. And then Lakers, Golden State is the next two. I just think is how I'd have it. I wouldn't have the Knicks with those two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
If Mitchell's there in round one, then I'm going to reconsider, but I just don't trust it. Do you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
How focused are you on Pistons-Knicks? Because I'm like a 10 out of 10.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
He was out there in crunch time on Friday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
That would be a good NBA award at the end of the year that we should vote on the joy is back award. Where we have to vote whose joy was the most back. Who's the joy of back winner this year? Next year, like the odds on Fandles posting 26 odds and like KD is a minus 300 favorite for the joy is back. He hasn't been traded yet. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I think it's so hard to draft in football. It just seems like it's a fucking crapshoot. Can you imagine having a top four pick right now trying to decide whether you're going to get fired if Cam Ward doesn't work out for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I just think it's harder. I'm not willing to get in an hour debate about it. I just think there's more players, there's more positions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Belichick took the kill Harry over DK Metcalf and AJ Brown.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Belichick traded out of the Trent McDuffie pick and passed up on George Karlaftis to take Cole Strange. I just think the draft is like, it almost like breaks their brains how stupid some of this shit is. NBA is more simple. It's like you're going, like your ED point. Do we want to take a guy who has a chance to be potentially like an awesome guy someday?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Or do we just take 12 and nine from Zach Eady for the next five years? Memphis was like, that sounds great. We'll do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But we both like Dini. We both thought he was a rotation guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Well, it's a weird thing with Ja because all Ja does is go to the basket. So then you have Zach Eaddy just kind of wandering around. Not great. Can't really post up Zach Eaddy and have Ja Morant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's two hours into the pod. I'm groggy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Team debate? I don't know. The more drafts I watch, sometimes it seems easier than ever. Zach Eady clearly was going to be a rotation guy. I couldn't believe there was even a dialogue about it. He's 7'5", and he has good hands. You're going to get four good years out of him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
No, I don't. I don't like Memphis or Houston. I just think it's too early for both of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I don't know who our Joy's back guy is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
They're like a regular season team that I just have less faith in the playoffs about because of, I don't know. I just think teams are going to have better options in crunch time when we get to April, May. And they're trading baskets in the fourth quarters. I just, I don't think their defense is as good as I thought it was going to be. The team's put up big point numbers on them. You notice that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I think for next year, it's probably off the board. Maybe it's Kyrie. Maybe Kyrie because the trade was so late last year or the turnaround was so late last year. Maybe he's grandfathered in and he's the favorite this year. I don't know. He would have won it last year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
They're way more run and gun than I think I was expecting from them this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
No, I know, but they'll have these games where they're like 126 to 125, shit like that. That Knicks game was a wild game. That was not a defensive game. Um, yeah. So I got, I have the same six that I had before. Um, and next, Hey, Robinson looks awesome for them. Maybe we could reevaluate that in a month. Do you want to do a quick deep dive before we go? I do. What do you want?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Um, you go, we can, we can do it fast. We'll do it in like three minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Okay. Any, any new news with the pyramids?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Did they ever master the pyramids? Was there ever a moment where like with baseball where they they just figured out guys got to get on base and that's get on base any way you can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, that's my question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Um... I really, Ben and I watched Shane Gillis on SNL last night and had a great time and laughed a lot. And I started thinking about how I think he could have been the biggest star on the show in the last 10 years. And that set me down a long deep dive of how he didn't end up on the show. And I was watching different clips. Here we go. And there was, well, we'll leave that aside.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
But there's all this different videos and stuff. And one of them was this like two minute video of Louis C.K., just blistering Shane Gillis, like half fun, but half whatever, because he was so mad that he was doing an ad, but also about to throw the podcast to a Patreon. And he was like, how much money do you need to make from this podcast? Do you really need the money that bad?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And Shane Gillis was like, I actually do. But I was just down this whole Shane Gillis rabbit hole thinking about how interesting it would have been if he had just become like Will Ferrell on SNL. And I don't think I was alone with that last night because I thought some of the stuff last night was great. The monologue was as awkward as it's ever been.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Like a back to back Donovan Mitchell, who I don't think was completely miserable last year, but I do think has, has like an added level of joy this year. And I think he would be somebody I would at least accept the thing. Uh, Paul George probably would be last in the voting. He'd be the, the joy is not back. If that was an award.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's just such a bizarre fit of performer and audience, like whoever's in that crowd where they're just... The band behind them, which a lot of people were pointing out, the band's like... Can we laugh at that one? Can we do that? But his sketches and the couple of beers thing was fucking great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I thought they really felt like they were pushing the envelope a little bit in a way that reminded me of some of the best eras of the show. And it was just like, man, this would have been so interesting if there's this alternate universe where he's just on the shit, like nothing happens. He never says the dumb shit and it never comes back to haunt him. And he's just on the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Just kind of doing that same ride that like Will Ferrell did and Phil Hartman, some of these other guys, like what would have been the destiny of that? Anyway, I was deep diving that for an hour last night because I couldn't sleep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
And even though it's like that stop start thing he does, if you're not used to it, you're kind of like, what's he doing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, no, it's Jimmy Butler. Oh, perfect.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I think, I think it was bad for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah, I do. I think it set him back a couple of years. Um, but, uh, and, but ultimately became part of his story and he got over it. But, um, you know, I don't think it was, I don't think it was good for him. That, that thing that really helped him was putting that comedy special on YouTube. And it was just great. The one, I think he did it in Austin, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
That was the one when Ben was like, who's this guy? And we were just, we'd watch it over and over again. And we thought it was just so fucking funny. Like the Trump stuff, everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Jimmy Butler's like he had five points the other night when Steph had 56 and they interviewed him in the locker room and he was like just delighted. He was saying, I'm just so pleased to be here for this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Well, and that's also, that was the bones of SNL. And it was a lot of the SNL 50 stuff. Um, when they're going back through the old cast and you think like that seventies cast, especially part of what made, made that great was they just didn't give a shit. They tried everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I think it would have been like five years. And I think he probably would have done stand-up stuff. And then I don't know what the next thing is. But I think he'd be... I think it would have been really good for him. And I also think the show needed somebody like him, which was, I think the reason Lauren, the new Lauren book that came out has a little piece on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Like he wanted a different type of cast member than they had. And somebody that did a lot of stuff Shane did. So I think it would have been really good for him. I also think he would have played Trump, which would have been huge for him because he's really good at it. And you've seen him do it a bunch of times anyway. Yeah. Good deep dive. Anything you got to plug before we go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Oh, congrats. Good luck with the facial hair. I will see you in a week. We'll see what's changed in the world of basketball. Good to see you. Thanks to Saruti and Kyle Gahow as well. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And you can watch it as a video on Spotify as well. I will see you. New rewatchables coming Monday night. We did an Oscar winner, Rosillo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I'll text you about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Oh, we're taping this for the Oscar. I was really hoping Mikey Madison would win Best Actress because I thought that was the best performance I saw this year. But it doesn't seem like, as we're taping this, it doesn't seem like she's going to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I thought she was awesome. Best pick. I think Onora is going to win. And by default was part, but I didn't see the brutalists. So I'm not going to pretend I wasn't worse. I just still didn't see it. I will at some point. I just didn't see it. And I didn't do the thing where it's like, I got to see every movie before, you know, I just didn't get to it yet. I'll say that at some point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Come on with both of us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Russillo, see you next Sunday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It's like, oh, there's Jimmy Butler's teeth. They're back. Uh, giving these perfect long monologue answers. And if, if I was on the heat, I'd be so pissed. Like, oh my God, really? Was that happy? Yeah. You're this happy. Steph is like this much of a joy to be with. Apparently is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
It seems that, I mean, that's another one is Steph is our joy MVP of just like, he just parcels out joy to other people. He's able to like transfer it to them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Then the next week, another one comes on. It's almost like how they have with White Lotus. That's Celtic City. So please check that out. We spent a lot of time on it. Really proud of it. So Celtic City. Monday, March 3rd. Get ready. All right, coming up. Got a lot of weird basketball topics to talk about with Rosillo. Some big picture stuff, some alpha dog stuff in the league between the teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
was somewhere between a third and nine and a third and 13. And the guys kind of covered and you throw it anyway. But the odds of Jimmy Butler just going to Golden State and being good immediately were pretty high. And then the odds of him enjoying playing with Steph, that seemed pretty high. And then just watching the weight of the world be immediately lifted off steps.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
This would have been a more fun segment if they hadn't gotten crushed by Philadelphia last night. Yeah, but he didn't play. I did not watch. Quentin Grimes went nuts. Butler didn't play. Can you believe Dallas traded Quentin Grimes? Whoa, how about, can you believe Philly traded for Quentin Grimes when it was clear that they were supposed to be headed toward a tank thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
I'm intentionally not, this is not an over-prepared bod because I wanted to do more back and forth stuff and not have like set segments. You nailed it so far because I didn't know we were doing any of this. There's definitely a couple big picture stuff I want to hit, but the Philly thing, which I was going to mention later, but we should talk about now because we had,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Embiid, there was a report yesterday. Embiid went to the owner. It felt like this week was about Philly trying to subtly pin stuff on Daryl Morey, the GM. That would, you know, like that was something I saw on a show. Well, Daryl Morey was the one pushing for the Embiid extension. Right. Because if we're going to go down that road.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
Yeah. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. We have to hit this quickly because this is absurd and I'm not going to allow it. Ultimately, one guy owns a basketball team. And when it's that amount of money and it's that big of a decision, that guy's making the call. He's not deferring to the GM. He's not going, I don't want to do this. And that's a lot of money. But Daryl says we should.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo
So I'm just going to do it. It's not happening. That's not how the league works. Like the reason Kaminga is still on the Warriors is because Joe Lacob didn't want to trade Kaminga. There's no other reason. Joe Lacob likes Kaminga. He wants, he doesn't want to give up on him. And that's why he wasn't part of any of those trades. The owners control the show and they're going to decide what happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Coming up, more NBA. That's right. You're not going to bully me away from talking to NBA. I'm going to do it on this podcast next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, there's long memories with the voting. I think that's a really good point about Kyrie. I've actually, like Kyrie was one of my least favorite basketball players. I really appreciated the way he's turned his career around the last couple years. You got to hand it to him. I thought he acted like a pro last year. I thought he showed up and that's all we ever wanted from him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But he also wasn't showing. When you're not playing basketball, when you're acting erratically and giving weird press conferences.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I 80% agree, but even Kyrie last year was like, yeah, I acted like a jerk. There's some things I would take back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
We have a 30 on 30 profit boost token. On Fridays, where you can boost any 30-plus point score or 30-on-30 special bet on this Friday's slate on FanDuel. You know why this is good for this week? Because we have the all-star snubs. We have people playing who didn't make the All-Star team, who then try to take it out on whoever their next game is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
What you just said about Kyrie and the teammates made me think of Westbrook and how Westbrook's teammates always loved him. Lakers accepted. I don't know, you know, although I do think a lot of the Lakers had him, but obviously it didn't work out well at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But the teammates always swore by Westbrook, even when there was stuff about, you know, him stat padding, him trying to grab all the free throw rebounds, all that stuff. And all his teammates loved him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Did you play like with anybody like that? Where it's just like a beloved teammate guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Like a star that you played with who was like just everybody was all in and loved him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So the worst teammate you've ever had is Justin?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah. For the East snubs. if you want to call them snubs. They took four guards, three forwards, really no center. And the one that jumped out to me was Maxie, but I also wouldn't have put them ahead of Garland, Dame, Hero, or Cade. So I was actually fine with the entire East team. The 12 guys they landed on, I thought were the 12 all-stars. Do you have a...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I 100% do not. And I got to say, I was a little surprised he made it, but I also understand why they made it because of the, the, whatever the winning attitude was with how the selections happened this year. I think they wanted two cells.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think if you weren't watching game to game and just looking at the stats and you know, the fact that he's been durable, I think, I think people like us that have watched a lot of the games, like, man, he hasn't played that well for a month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Like Philadelphia playing Dever, Tyrese Maxey, ideal candidate. Toronto versus Chicago, Zach Levine, he didn't make it. He's probably mad about it. Just try to match... the anger and the resentment of the snub with the game and you're good. Uh, be sure to claim the PBT and place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel sports book app.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, the bigger thing is there was no guy that, oh, my God. Like, I think if Jalen Johnson had been healthy the whole year and was healthy now, I think he would have had a real chance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I felt like Mobley had to make it. But to me, Mobley and Jaron Jackson were non-starters. They had to be on the team for the two-way stuff they're doing on really good teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Especially at crunch time. Which I think was the thing with Jimmy. If you watch Miami... Basically, everything last three minutes was revolving around here. And I don't know if Jimmy was a giant fan of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I don't know. That's the big... I mean, that goes to the... You guys have talked about this a bunch, but the post-Olympics... What happened to some of these guys? Why did it take so much out of them? Bam's the weirdest one because his offense just went sideways. We had to take a break. And then I want to talk about the Butler trades and the Fox trades and what we think is going to happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
We either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game to have both teams to score 30 plus points in the first quarter. I talked to Fando about this. I thought we needed some sort of gimmick, and it's been super fun. And for this week, coming off the All-Star game, you got to go with the snubs. You got to go with Tyrese Maxey.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You know what else you can look for? We did that trade by a calm, uh, podcast with Priscilla on Tuesday where we hashed out the final list. I got his help. I finally settled on a top 85. And then we ran it on theringer.com today, and I wrote an intro for it. The fingers actually kind of worked. It was like 1,200 words, but that's like 20,000 words for me. I mean, I can barely type.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline is here, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So we talked about Jimmy Butler before, and it seems like Golden State, we're taping this, it's 6 o'clock Pacific time right now, Thursday. Seems like Golden State's going to be the team if there's a move, unless there's some surprise out of nowhere team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I was looking at possible trades, and I think Wiggins has to be in it because there's got to be some sort of fat salary, and it's either Wiggins or Draymond. I just don't think they're going to trade Draymond. He just... I just think that's Steph's guy. That's just like he's over here. You can't touch him. But it would have to be Wiggins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think it has to be Schroeder because he's an expiring. And then there's a Kaminga piece to it where Kaminga, if Golden State doesn't want to pay him, and it could potentially be Wiggins, Kaminga, and Schroeder. And maybe like whatever else, little small thing needs to come in. So there's two separate questions here. Is that a lot to give up for a guy who's been unhappy for a year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And then also, if you're Miami... you might actually be pretty good down the stretch if you turn a guy who's not really playing at all into Wiggins, who's looked really good the last couple weeks and most of the season. Kaminga coming off the bench and then Schroeder at point guard?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But would you pay him? Cause he's, you're going to have to pay him next summer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But anyway, I wrote an intro. I had fun. And then we laid out the whole list. It's got stats. It's got the money, all that stuff. So very excited about that. You can go read me on theringer.com. Yeah, you can read me. Remember those days? Coming up, Justin Termini and Eddie Johnson, who I call into their show all the time on Sirius, and they owed me one. So they are coming on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They don't. Cur is the only real trade asset they have. I don't know what the other move is. They almost got marketing, they almost got Paul George, and they're probably thanking their lucky stars neither of those trades happened because they would have given up everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, but the problem is, in 2022 when they did it, the league was completely different. I just don't think the league was nearly as good. There was some injury luck with some teams that went sideways, and they kind of snuck in. They rode Curry, who I think was at a slightly different point in his career, too, in 22 versus now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think that 22 team would not be able to do that in 25 with how deep the league is and how good it is. I agree. I... I'm torn on it because, Justin, you remember in the early 90s with the Celts, when we had the big three and the question was always, how long do we keep these guys? Well, we can't trade. We got to keep these guys together. They won titles for us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And the Celts were able to rebuild on the fly a little bit with Reggie Lewis, who was a godsend. Brian Shaw, Dee Brown, they had Ed Pinckney. And they had this cool young old thing and it... It was pretty good. Like they weren't going to win the title, but they were in the mix. Like they, you know, they had two really good seasons and then Bird and McHale's health just couldn't hold up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I don't even think the Warriors are close to that level, you know? So if I'm them, it's either a question of, do we owe this to Curry? Because we're never trading him. So if you feel that way, then you got to do the Butler deal and give up whatever and try to hope that you catch lightning in a bottle with him. Or you got to think about trading Curry. And I just don't think they're going to do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, I had Devin Booker in the top 20. He was not. You saw the wrong thing. See, this is, you get fooled by social media.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You said he was behind him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Muscle nose. I had him number 16. I did have him behind Jalen Williams and Cade Cunningham. I did have him behind Evan Mobley and Jaron Jackson. I think that's fair.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, Jalen Williams on a rookie contract. Like, would you rather pay Jalen Williams $9 million a year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, it's about talent. It's about time of their career. It's about the salary. It's all those things. It's basically, you're telling me Phoenix wouldn't rather have Jalen Williams on a rookie contract the Devin Booker for 50 million a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
We're going to talk basketball, and it's next. First, our friends from Pro Gym. All right, we're taping this late Thursday afternoon. I go on their show all the time. All the time. And they owed me, so they're coming on. Eddie Johnson, just determined. You can hear them on Sirius NBA every afternoon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Wait, I'm going to state really quick. Let's say Butler goes back there. Let's say they, let's say they get a 50 cents, 40 cents of the dollar. Let's say she's Wiggins, Looney and Schroeder and some protected pick. And that's a trade. Miami is like, please take them, give them away. And Butler flips the switch. Like he's done a couple of times this year to show everybody still has it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
does that team intrigue you at all?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, I look at it like ceilings, like your regular season ceiling versus your playoff ceiling. So I see a team like Houston, and I'm really impressed by them. Like a young team, kind of a weird collection of assets. They barely have even one all-star, but when you watch them, it makes sense together.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I don't know if there's another gear for them, if they're playing the same team six, seven times in two weeks. I think they'd get easy. But when you think about like Boston, Cleveland, especially the Knicks, There's another level I feel like they can go. The question for me with OKC, because I think everybody's going to defend them the same way. They're just going to trap Shea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They're going to send two guys at them. They're going to make Jalen Williams and some of these other guys basically have the ball in big moments, a lot like how people are defending the Celtics. The smart teams of the Celtics are trapping Jason at the top. They're sending two guys at him. They really want Jalen Brown to decide the games now because he's not playing that well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I just don't know if Jalen Williams can win four straight playoffs in a row for you. And how is Shea going to figure out how do I be regular season Shea when I'm just seeing this constantly? So I think the West is open is my point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
The Clippers game, I think, unfortunately, was a bad game for the Celtics long-term because the Clippers coaching that game was so smart. They basically laid out the blueprint or reminded everybody of the blueprint of what to do against the Celtics. And Van Gundy was amazing in that. Both of those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And now, like, Houston was basically doing a lot of the same stuff that the Clippers did in that game. And if you have... Big swings, you can protect the rim a little bit, and you just keep blitzing Tatum and making everyone else beat you. Basically, what it's going to come down to is, can Jalen Brown get back to where he was last year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Because last year, we were arguing about 1A, 1B with Tatum and Brown. That argument's over. It's 1-2, and we need... Can Jalen get back to 1B?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm not, we're not down on him either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And we're really here to talk about Eddie's finals pick, which was Minnesota versus Philadelphia before the season. I looked it up. That finals pick is three games under .500, Eddie. Like if it can't get over 500, do you just retire at the end of the year? Like what's your plan?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm a patriot, Justin. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I care about my country.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, what if I said this to you? The 2025 champion will come from the East.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I mean, by the way, what you just laid out was the reason the Lakers won all those titles in the 80s because they never had to play anybody. The East was just killing each other. And the Lakers were like, ah, we got to play the Spurs in the Western Finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, that's your worst point you've made.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Those 80s Lakers had two rivals, both of whom flamed out immediately. The 86 Rockets, who were the absolute all-time kryptonite team for them, and that team implodes with drugs. And then the Mavs, that same era, Roy Tarpley stays healthy, and they actually have to go through those two teams that they... As you know, I hate the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
The luck that they had in the 80s was unbelievable with their opponents.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I mean, you know. There's a lot to hate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I would lean toward the East to produce our champion, but I'm also not tied to it for a bunch of reasons. One, all the stuff you laid out about how competitive it's going to be. But two, there's still some West teams. I'm not crossing up Denver at all. I know they've had a goofy year. I'm just not crossing them off yet because of how good yoga is. Of course you're not. I'm just not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He's been definitely a hundred percent better. We talked about him a month ago on your show and I was terrified that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, but he's playing better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
The league is better. I mean, I just think it's so admirable for the very small market Denver Nuggets to...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm going to whisper this one. Clippers, is there something there? As a playoff team? If Kawhi can actually start to look like... I saw him the other day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Justin, any comments on that one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Is that a 28-minute limit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Because, Justin, they have Zubats, who's turned into not an all-star center, but he was maybe in the borderline slot list. Harden and Powell. Kawhi, all these role players. And I think they have a top three coaching staff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Justin cares about that more than I, we're not going to bat a thousand. We're going to get some stuff wrong. There was no sign, none that the Clippers were going to be a possible playoff team. You were worried about Kawhi, but also they lost Paul George, who was important for them. And they replaced him with a bunch of dudes. And it's like, and then when you watch them, the team makes sense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Derrick Jones is a really good ad for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Kawhi comes in. All he's doing is taking Batum's minutes and some Terrence Mann minutes. It's like, this is legit. Even if he plays 25 minutes a game, Harden, I still feel like the right teams can take him out because he doesn't have the same burst that he did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
If he's going against a Houston or a Memphis, teams with young, big wings that can throw at him, I think it's hard for him to get his shots. I'll tell you another thing. I've talked about it before. Eddie, have you done a game at Intuit yet?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They have a borderline home court advantage now, which is nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They never had anything before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Right. Yeah, no, I think that team's really interesting to me. The Spurs, if they got Fox, which we should talk about. I want to watch this next two Wemby months because they're 20 and 24 right now. And somehow they're only five games out of the five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
It's probably a lot of picks. Actually, let's talk about that. We'll take one more break. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Hills Pet Nutrition. Hills Food, Shelter, and Love Program provides science-led nutrition for cats and dogs in shelters across America. They've helped more than 15 million pets find new homes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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Participate and play you for an ultra and send the winner an ultra through DoorDash today. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser-Busch McGlobe Ultra Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 or older to order alcohol. Alcohol available only in select markets. This episode is brought to you by Hookah. I've got to talk to you guys about the Bondi 9, the new daily trainer from Hookah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Visit hookah.com, H-O-K-A.com to learn more about the Bondi 9. Darren Fox. I was taping a pod on Tuesday with Versillo. And then all of a sudden this trade thing came out and I was like, boy, that's weird. And that's like, he has a specific team. And then it turns out he wants to go to the Spurs. I haven't talked about this on my pod. I know you've probably talked about it in your show, Justin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I had great career move by Darren Fox, trying to go to the Spurs. Like this is like trying to join the hit TV show. That's going to be the number one show on TV for the next 10 years. Like it's, I get why he wants to do it. They need somebody like him. The question for me is, what is the timetable for the Spurs? Do you even need to do this now? What's the point of it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You have no chance to win a title. If he wants to play for you this bad, why not just wait until he's a free agent? Why am I giving up stuff for him now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Plus, Fox, they were a two-seed two years ago. He was the best guy on that team. So it's not like teams haven't succeeded with him. I guess the way I'm looking at it, the risk would be If we don't do this now, what if somebody trumps him? What if somebody else trades for him? What if we lose this opportunity? So then who are the other guys out there? Because they clearly need somebody like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They need somebody. Give him the car keys. Let him run shit. And it's like you start looking around the league. Who else is it? Like Garland's not leaving Cleveland. Garland was the guy to get last summer and they probably should have tried to overpower them. Do you wait on Hope Maxey? Hope Philly just goes so far sideways that maybe they would just want a complete rebuild.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You go through all the rosters and he's kind of the best fit for what they need.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, that was the worst one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Because that makes Luke look like a loser. Honestly, like he's just going to This is the same shit we make.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, he went to Wade was one of the three best players in the league when he went there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Wade was probably the third best player in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
In the 2011 playoffs, he was the best part of the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He wasn't chopped liver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Are you in the matrix where Joel Embiid plays basketball games? Because we're living here on planet Earth when he's in street clothes every game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So if you're San Antonio and you can trade for Fox, keep Castle because Castle is just, I'm not even discussing him. Not discussing Wemby. And you can potentially keep Vassell. And then you add Fox. And I don't care. Take your pick. What picks do you want? I would probably do it as long as it wasn't an insane amount of picks. I don't know what these teams are doing with all their picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I really like that Atlanta team, too. I thought they were like a six seed kind of range sleeper. And then they just can't get healthy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So is the league more fun if there's a Fox to San Antonio trade this year? I think it is. We basically sacrificed Sacramento as a playoff team and replaced them with San Antonio.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
If Chris Paul was in the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You think Sacramento could still patch it together? They'd have an older team, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So why'd you try to trade him? Why'd you trade him from Phoenix? Why'd you sign off on that deal?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Why are you blaming me? Remember that year when Eddie thought Yusuf Nurkic was good? We had to like kindly remind him over and over again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He should be on a lottery team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Eddie, he's in his 30s. It's not happening. Give up the ghost.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
This is too much Nerkich talk already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
He's already packed. He goes to the Suns games and he has all his suitcases in case the trade happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I remember this story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
We messed up the other two picks, though.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Oh, my God. Bird would have put Eddie in the Hall of Fame. He'd be like Michael Cooper.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So you've been in the league since 1981 in various capacities. Have you ever seen anything remotely approaching Wemby in person?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So when you're on the plane after a game, are all the Suns players and coaches just talking about him for the next half hour?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Did they invite you for the poker games?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Jesus. Well, in your day, you're sitting in airports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
People are coming up to you in the gates. That was such a fascinating era.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Just eating like McDonald's with a two-hour connection in Kansas City, trying to go somewhere else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Right. He's like, are you a basketball player? So we should talk about the Suns. You'd, uh, cause you weren't on Justin's show today, so he didn't get the, uh, the privilege, pleasure, honor of, of your reaction to the ESPN story about some of the sun stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I, my take, and I've said this before is I actually think the sons, the team they built is a team that really made sense in the 2010s, but the league is just way better now. in that star system, which a bunch of teams have, where they have the two really good guys, it just doesn't work the way it did. Like you, you really need seven to nine guys who can be good at all times built around the two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I don't know how they, they're kind of down this road down. I don't know how they fix it. I know they freed up some picks, but is this even fixable in your opinion? You're at every game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
What do you see, Justin?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I had the same reaction. You don't do that because they basically turned the $2 bill into, you know, a dollar and two quarters. You don't do that unless you know you're about to do something. So then everybody's like, all right, can't wait to see what it is. A week passed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Well, my guess is they're trying to use one of the picks to dump Nurkic on another team, right? So then maybe he's in a three-team or a four-team trade, whatever. But either way, once you dump him... you have more flexibility to do the next move.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Tough one for me because that was one of my best bets heading into the year was Phoenix over 47 now. Eddie, you've watched Durant now for almost two years up close doing every game. Is there anything... that stood out that you just had no idea until you're watching him night after night?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So it's like something he was doing from like age six. Yeah. That's just part of his life every day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I keep waiting for signs of slippage with him because he's been in the league for 18 years now, Justin. Yeah. You know, there's moments when he looks a little stiffer than maybe when you go back and you watch like the early OKC stuff and he's just such a crazy freak, seven foot and just so it's a whiff stiffer, but he has all the same shots and he's so smart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
It's almost like what was happening with LeBron near the end when you just kind of know where to go, where to be. You can read everything and you know exactly what your best play is. I don't really see a lot of slippage. I don't know how much longer this goes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
The first year, though, they had the bad luck injuries. And that's the big what ifs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You know, there's something Eddie said about when we talk about LeBron once, when you think like when somebody gets to the league, did they maximize whatever the potential of what they could have been, right? I think LeBron's the best example of this. Whatever you thought the ceiling was, and he had the most expectations of just about anybody. And then he hit all the expectations.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I agree with Justin, which won't be the last time in this podcast. Sorry, Eddie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think Durant's like that too. And yet he's always going to have this thing about switching teams, right? And that's going to become part of the legacy. But what's, what's interesting to me about legacies is just watching Vince Carter, right? He gets his Jersey retired in Toronto and in New Jersey. He's in New Jersey for four and a half years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I just don't think anybody gives a shit after a while, right? So even Toronto where you would think, Out of any fan base would be the maddest at a player who left. And even they were like, yeah, we don't care. And I just think when Durant, when he retires, everybody's like, oh, what's going to happen? Who's going to retire his number? I think he'll get his number retired at OKC and Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I think his legacy will be fine. At the rate they do it, they'll probably do it in Brooklyn. Brooklyn might. If they're going to do Vince Carter, maybe KD's next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Maybe. I'm not ruling anything out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
It is crazy how that works out. The Toronto thing really blew my mind.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah. I get like, there were some good times in it too, but it's, I guess there's a statute of limitations for all this stuff. But back to KD, like, I just think all that stuff washes away. He won two titles. He's one of the best, either 15 or 20 players ever, depending on, you know, what your list is. And that's just going to be the legacy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
You mean not all-star Devin Booker. Embiid, a lot of wear and tear. Bad injury history of big men over seven feet who hit their thirties and have been in the automobile shop a lot, shall we say. So I think if I'm Philly, I'm just terrified. One of the things I put up a trade value list today where I ranked the best trade assets in the league. And we did at 85 this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I'm going to respectfully disagree. I think Golden State won 73 games. Curry was hurt in that 2016 playoffs. In Cleveland, the next two years, Kyrie, LeBron got rocky. Kyrie left.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
those there were no big shots they were winning the series in four or five games but he hit the big shots i mean he hit the big shots in that series and then so that's the difference but this is the thing like if you just go back to that clay thompson game the sliding doors of it okc just beats golden state then okc plays cleveland in the finals and it feels like the next nine years of the league is just different i don't know how it plays out like what if okc beats cleveland
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And then it's like LeBron doesn't get the title in Cleveland. Does he stay in Cleveland until he gets the title? What happens? What happens to Golden State if Durant doesn't go there? It's probably the biggest what-if of this century.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
This is finally, we can all agree on Westbrook at the same time, which I don't know if it's ever happened. I love Westbrook and Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's the thing. It's weirdly bad for LeBron, Eddie. This is like in the Jokic versus LeBron argument. This is not, this is an L for LeBron.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
That's the one real nitpick with LeBron is everybody else has to fit toward him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But some of the best players of all time fit to the teammates.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And I had him be number 54 on the list. And a couple of people reached out to me in NBA circles and were like, you could have put him 254th. Nobody is trading for him in that contract. I'm not positive. I feel like it's gotten to that point. But Justin, do you feel like Is he even tradable at this point? Or is it just like we have no idea what to expect with this dude anymore?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
also though the fact that westbrook is seems like he's like 95 as explosive as he was 12 years ago like he's just an all-time freak it's ridiculous even lebron like slowed down and got bigger and changed some of what he did westbrook seems like he's just like in like i don't know i don't understand yeah even though i said he should retire i'm happy that he uh is not because i do love his mental approach it's awesome we need a guy that cares every single night as much as what they
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I flew to Oklahoma City at the end of 2010 because I just wanted to go to a game. I really liked watching OKC and I just kind of wanted to see them before they ascended to whatever was going to happen with them. And I went to a practice and And at the end of the practice, they were running the wind sprints. And KD and Russ were beating everybody in the wind sprints.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
They're like busting each other's ass trying to beat some random day in December in the middle of the season. And they're flying back and forth trying to beat each other. And I really think all those early years where they're competing against each other and Harden's trying to compete against them probably had some weird...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
you know, carry on effect to the fact that we're in the mid 2020s and all those guys are still unimportant teams, you know, doing their thing. Cause now they're on their mid thirties.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Um, before we go quick, quick, quick game. A, do you believe, uh, Do you believe in Cleveland as an actual title contender, Justin?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I don't think I don't think it was a thought. I think I don't know if he was 100 percent happy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Right now in FanDuel, they're plus 850. They have the third best odds for the title. The Celtics are plus 210. OKC is plus 230. Don't make a Terry Rozier joke.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So my fear, I think the Knicks are really good and you can see them getting better and you know, they're going to get a buyout guy and they'll have an eight man rotation. You know, they're all going to play too many minutes and somebody will probably get hurt. But I think the ceiling, I'm really impressed by them, especially offensively.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I do wonder with the, with the amount of stuff they're putting on Brunson, how sustainable that is for nine months. That would be my biggest fear if I'm a Knicks fan. It's not a big guy. We just haven't seen teams built around small guards. be able to survive for nine months. The only guy that really did it was Isaiah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And they got great crowds, but that's why I like Cleveland a little bit more. I like the way they've handled the regular season. They're winning, but you look at their minutes, and everybody's like 30 minutes and below. They're really... They're really kind of pushing toward wherever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, 36 minutes and up for the top two. Do you believe in Zion at this point, Eddie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
But what's funny about you laying that out, though, is that he came into the league as one of the best assets for the number one pick that we probably had this century.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
The one thing I've learned a couple of things, I guess, fall in sports and trying to come up with things to say and studying stuff. If the guy doesn't want it, there's not a lot else you can do. And I think you could say that if you're a parent and you have a kid that's good at a certain sport, you can't force the kid to be awesome at the sport. At some point, they're going to have to give a shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And he says all the right things sometimes, but it just doesn't seem like he gets it. And now he's headed toward his mid-20s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
And at some point, it's either going to happen or it's not up here. And it just doesn't seem like it's there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Yeah, I'm on that line, Eddie, but you probably would bet on the talent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Oh yeah. Well, that contrasts that to your Durant story.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Durant probably ever since he could hit the 10 foot rim with the ball, he's probably been shooting jumpers for three, four or five hours a day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So yeah, that that's the thing. And I, I actually think Tatum has this, I think Tatum and Brown has it too. And maybe it's a good thing that they, you know, they're a little competitive in a good way with each other. But I think they come in every year. Like this year, Jalen got too big, but at least... there was intent behind it. Right. He's like, I need to, I need to survive the nine months.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Tatum always adds to a few year after year. I know. I want Jalen to lose a little.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
This is a bigger issue with the league than I think people realize. Guys that have an extension coming, and they're afraid to get hurt, so they stop working out all during the summer. There's a list of things like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think it just happened to Trey Murphy. I think he started out the season shitty, and now he looks like Trey Murphy again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Cause I think everybody, here comes the anti-patriot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I do think if I could do, if I was the czar of our Olympic basketball program, I would go 25 and under for the team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I want, like, people like Ahmed Thompson on our 2020 Olympic team. Like, let's give them the experience, put them on that stage, and maybe have, like, one or two people over 25 as, like, the adults.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Just get a dual passport and move out of here. Guys, thank you for all the time. This was great. Now I feel better when I pop on your show out of nowhere when I'm driving around. I just text Justin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, but there was a reason you guys couldn't do it last week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
No, this was fun. I had a great time. Uh, you can listen to you guys every, what is it? Four to seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
All right. Safe travels. Great to see you guys. Thanks for coming up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
All right, that's it for the pod. Thanks to JT and Eddie. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, don't forget, you can watch the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch Before Sunrise. On the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, the latest rewatchables we did. I will see you on Sunday. We're not going live because there's no football game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So now I went from, I agreed with everything you said, Justin. I also agree with Eddie. There's always a sucker out there who's going to talk themselves into it. We see it over and over again. I never would have thought the Clippers were going to give Kawhi an extension. After he just kept missing the playoffs. They're like, here, take this. Like, we see it over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I never thought Zion would be able to get any sort of a multi-year anything. And he did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I mean, that's a fair comment. There you go. Phoenix is the sucker at the poker table that all the other poker players are trying to keep at the table.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Do we not have a luxury tax anymore? I think the subject's going the other way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I think if I had to make my they'd be crazy enough to trade for him list, I think Golden State would do it just because I think Golden State right now, it's not Hail Mary time for Golden State, but they're like, it's third and 13, third and 15. And I think they just need to do anything. Phoenix is definitely, if Phoenix could turn Beal and Embiid, they would do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
What are you talking about?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Did something happen with Bradley Beal professionally that I'm missing? We wouldn't do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Thank you. Speaking of the Phoenix Suns, the All-Star rosters came out today, and I had surprisingly very few quibbles. I would get to my one quibble. But I did notice that the great Devin Booker, who we're on a lot of texts with Eddie where we have to hear about the virtues of Devin Booker and how great he is, did not make the All-Star team. Your defense, Eddie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So I go both ways, but first of all, I don't like the word snub with the all-star game when we have a lot of good players, right? If you go back 20 years, which I wrote about in the trade value intro today, like we, we didn't have a crap load of talent in like 2007. So if you got snubbed from the all-star game, you feel it. Now we have so many good players. Like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
I, the most surprising one was Kyrie more surprising than Booker. I didn't like the thought of having two sons, all stars when there are 500 team, but I think Kyrie, what he's done without Luca and the fact that he's just day to day, night to night, showing up, carrying them. I thought he should have made it. I, that was the biggest snub to me. I don't understand why we had all these centers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Before Sunrise, a 90s classic. You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have our friends at FanDuel who every Friday, 30 on 30 is happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Um, I have no idea why Shingun, if you're going to have four centers, how does Shingun make it over Sabonis? But then Eddie, the other side of it is I do like when they reward the guys on winning team. And it's like, yeah, I get it. Houston should have an all-star.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
So Shingun makes it over Sabonis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine
Um, but I don't understand the Kyrie part and I would have Kyrie overhearted.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
That's the number one thing with them. And that's the thing you read from literally everybody who passes through his life in some capacity is maniac competitor. They say that over and over again. And the older I get, the more I feel like, whether it's football, basketball, name a sport, that's the number.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
If you really want to be truly great, that's the number one quality that everybody seems to have. Just maniac competitor, maniac competitor wants it so bad. Oh, he's not that great at this yet. He's just going to keep going and going until he can go up a level. And I'm with you. If you were going to use him as a point forward, I don't think his ball handling is good enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
to do that in the NBA right now, but he's 18. But it's one of those things that I could just see him. He's like, all right, I got to work on this. I'm going to absolutely be a psycho and work on this constantly. All right, I got to work on catch and shoot threes. I'm going to just shoot 10,000 of these until I get it. I just think that's who he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He's at the top. Next two, Larry Bird, John Havlicek. I don't need to make the case for Larry Bird. I have him as the sixth best guy ever. Three straight MVPs, three titles. But here's a fun Larry Bird fact. MVP from 1980 to 1988. Fourth, second, second, second, first, first, first, third, second. That's over nine years. Larry Bird was amazing. And I think he even would have been better now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And all the best guys ever, and not that he has a chance to be that good, but all the best guys ever had that. So if you're adding that, Whoever gets them. And I'm already worried about the lottery because there's a couple of teams where I'm like, oh man, I just don't want him to go there. You know, like which ones?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, I, you know, like I don't want him to go to like a bad team where we had this NBA infection that we've had for 50, 60 years where we take these great talented players and just stick them in bad situations. Like, like what happened with LeBron and Cleveland the first couple of years, or he's done the worst possible team. And he turned out to, you know, it turned out great for him, but
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
You just lose a couple of years. The best case scenario is what happened with Bird. There's no scenario like that this year in the NBA that that could happen. But Bird goes to the 79-80 Celtics and they already have like good players. They go from 29 wins to 60 plus, but they had really good players in that team and he just elevated all of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
So, you know, like I don't think Portland can get in there, but I think Portland is a team that, you know, if he was on a team like that, that would be really interesting. Philly. Yeah. You know, if somehow Embiid came back, if they if they were able to stay in the top six, San Antonio would be the dream of all the teams putting him next to Wemby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I can't think of a better like sidekick for Wemby, assuming Wemby is going to be all right next year. Yeah. They have a couple of bites at the apple. But when you start talking about like just throwing them on Washington, I don't know how many of the guys in the Wizards are even going to be in that team in three years. You know, you really want to build around him in the right way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
John Havlicek, In the running for most underrated NBA superstar of all time, eight titles, 25,000 points, played 16 years, which is like playing 25 years now. I don't know how he did it. His three-year peak, 27, nine and eight. His four-year playoff peak, 27-9-6, was one of the most clutch players of his era, if not the number two clutch guy behind Jerry West.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It's interesting because one of the guys that he reminds me of, he has nothing in common with physically really, but it's KG. Because KG was 7'1". Their bodies are completely different. I think KG was probably a better athlete. But the way as a help defender and a rim protector... and just how he's moving a second before the play is moving. And he always seems to know where shit's going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
That's the KG quality. I mean, that was, that was one of the things that made him so special. He doesn't have the same size. He doesn't have the same arm length. Um, and he's not as like a scary competitor, but he's fierce.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Like KG was, you know, and I think that's another guy who is a good comparison for him where you, you talk to, like we were doing the Celtics doc and we had so many stories from these people that played on those Oh eight Oh nine teams where they were just like, the guy was,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
a lunatic like we have these random scrimmages and you know beginning of October four weeks before the season started and he's caked in sweat and screaming at everybody and there's just certain guys like that that's why the fit's gonna be so important like New Orleans that one would worry me because of uh You know, they've been a tortured franchise for 50 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It just seems like people go there and bad things happen. Utah's a weird fit just because of the players they already have. Toronto is kind of the other one I was looking at where they have... you know, some interesting offensive players and a couple of Barnes. I don't know what Barnes is still, but they have some talent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And could that be a place where he could go in and he just becomes a centrifugal force? How much is what happens over these next month here, the AC tournament and March Madness? Does it affect anything with him and how people are going to feel about him?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, right. You've sent in your verdict already. Is he the most sure thing guy you've studied since you started doing this with us?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
So you say it doesn't matter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
You know, you could be in the team you have five years from now. Maybe nobody's on that team from right now anyway. Yeah, because Wemby was a sure thing except how tall he was and the history of guys over a certain height. So even though he was a sure thing and he checked every box, he wasn't a sure thing because... It's just hard when you get that big.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And we have the history of, it's just, it's too complicated. So it's always in the background. Every time he would land on a foot, anything, you're always nervous. Luka, to me, at least for me, was the surest thing. Just kept watching what he did that year overseas and how sophisticated his offensive game was. And I thought Anthony Davis was a sure thing. I was incredibly excited for Zion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And the greatest thing about him, all-time Swiss Army knife guy. Had this whole career as a six-man. He could play guard. He could play forward. Whatever your team needed, He could do it. And then eventually he ended up as a forward during the last couple of titles. But there's never been a career quite like that where you're just winning when you come in, you're winning when you leave.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I thought, you know, holy shit. But there was always that fear factor with Zion because he was so in the air all the time. Those guys always make you a little nervous. Anthony Davis was like, this guy's definitely going to be on a really good team at some point in his career. You just see it at Kentucky.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Now it took longer than we thought, but those are the guys, at least recently that I think jump out. Am I missing anyone?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, because you look at somebody like John Moran, you're like, all right, this guy who can't shoot from the outside. He's an electric athlete, but he's in the air. He's banging bodies all the time. There's things that make you nervous. If I'm taking a guy like this, I want it to be like... I know I'm going to have this guy for 12 to 15 years at the highest possible level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And for something for that not to happen would have to be like a legitimate fluke. It's not a legitimate fluke of like when Benyama hurts his knee or his foot or anything, because we see that with centers. But, you know, I think Anthony Davis, to me, it seemed like, man, I really hard to come up with a scenario where he's not awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Chris Paul was a short thing to me as a point guard. I was, that was like, there was no way he wasn't going to be really good. And Durant was another one from that era that if you actually watched that whole season and watched all the, just how easy it was to get whatever shot he wanted and how unusual of a player he was. It was like, there was no way this guy is going to be awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Where I usually get in trouble are the the guys who have the athleticism, but it's hard to tell what the motor is or what the competitiveness is or situations like Dwight Howard. It's like, how did the guy's 18? He's got Adonis body. I have no idea. You know, would you bet your life? LeBron was an easy one. Yeah. You know, in 03, all you had to do was watch him in high school twice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And like, there's nothing like this right now. Six foot eight and a half, like athlete like this, this is going to be insane. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Right, you can grow out of it. But there are red flags, though, like Ben Simmons, that LSU season, and then him just ditching the team with, like, a few weeks left, and it was like, that didn't go great. Whereas if it was somebody like Cooper Flagg or if KG had gone to college, there's just no way they're not finishing the season and being a complete psychopath the entire season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And then the next level. So Bob Cousy, if I had to do a Mount Rushmore, he would be the fourth guy for that. Six rings, won an MVP, best non-center of the first 15 years of the league. The first fun, entertaining player in the history of the league. That's relevant. First great point guard ever. Relevant. 10 first all-NBAs, two second all-NBAs. He was just a dominant player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
There's stuff you can learn. To me, Flagg is as sure of a thing as I can remember. The best thing about him from an NBA standpoint is you can just see what he's going to be. Like there's such a clear position that now exists in the way, in the way the league is that I would just assume somebody is going to end up using him a lot. Like the Celtics use Tatum. It's going to have the ball a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He's going to bounce around depending on what the matchup is. It can be a little bit of a Swiss army knife, the same way Tatum is. Um, and can you be a crunch time guy? Maybe. Is he going to be better off as a completely overqualified number two? I think he's better than that. But yeah, that's your worst case scenario for him. It's going to be really great. All right. We're taking a break.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
So I asked you any NBA trend stuff that you've noticed this year. You're a big style of play, comparing stuff to history guy, as am I. Anything you've noticed this year that jumped out? You're like, hmm, well, this is something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
By the time he retired, he was basically the Babe Ruth of the league when he retired. And then he passed the torch to his teammate Russell and Elgin and Wilt and everybody else. But that's the top four. So the other two on that level that I would put, Dave Cowens, who was one of the most important players of the 70s, won an MVP, won a couple titles, and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, the discipline of we know what types of players we want to put together and we're never deviating from this. Right? The Celtics had this last year with Brissette. They really like Brissette. Incredibly popular teammate. Good athlete. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
you know, whether he's an NBA rotation guy, I don't know, but they ended the year and they're like, we're just, we're not playing anybody who can't make a wide open three if the ball goes to them. Right. So then they're testing out guys, different guys this year. And it's Jordan Walsh gets a cup of coffee and they started playing my guy, Jaden Springer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And I, they just came to the decision, like everybody in the, everybody in Florida needs to be able to shoot a three. That's what we're riding with. So then they end up with Torrey Craig. And then smart guys who all of them can guard somebody or at least not get completely embarrassed in space.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
None of them need the ball, need to be like ball stoppers because they already have two semi ball stoppers with Tatum and Brown.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, you can have one, two. And even those guys are trying to get better at it. And that's it. And then OKC, it's pretty clear what they're trying to do. They're just getting fantastic athletes. They want the ability to go bigger or smaller depending on who they're playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And they want guys who can fit with Shea because as great as Shea is, he's another one who is, I don't think he's the easiest guy to play with sometimes. He has the ball a lot, especially when he's feeling it. You got to have guys who aren't going to be like, all right, now it's my turn to shoot. They don't have any, it's my turn now. They don't have any of those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
right and shay's team they all know it and chet as such he's another one who's just so additive like that going back to the cooper discussion from i think chet cooper have a lot in common yeah actually he's just like he's just there to help and chip in and uh he takes nothing off the table and then jaylen williams is now their wild card and that's the guy i think when they get to the playoffs that's he's going to decide series for them because you're not going to take out shay
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
The 70s Celtics or the 70s Knicks, those were the best two teams of that decade. And he was the most important player, him or Havlicek at least, for this entire Celtics run. So he's on there. And then Sam Jones, who's another underrated all-time guy, who didn't even really get to start because the league was so stacked. They had eight teams, nine teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
but you can limit him a little bit. You can make it hard for him. You can send doubles at him. You can do all the stuff that teams are trying to do Tatum over the last couple of years. And eventually you're going to need the Jalen Brown guy to step up and make some plays. And you're going to need the side guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
That's when I, especially, I don't know if you saw their, uh, them fall apart against Minnesota in that second game and down the stretch and no T, but I still feel like, you know, until you've done there and you have the scars, uh, And you've lost a couple of those and you have these guys who've just, they've kind of been through a few of those.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Like I still never going to a hundred percent trust it. But then you have a situation with the 2015 Warriors where it's like, I don't trust it. And then they're hoisted the trophy, you know, but anyway, back to your original point. I think you're right. Those two teams that I think Cleveland, I think deserves credit for understanding who they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And even that Hunter trade, I thought was such a good trade. they needed this specific thing. They went out and got it. All of their guys compliment each other. And to me, those are the three. Those are the three with Denver as the wild card for the top four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He was coming off the bench behind Bill Sharman, who was also awesome. Didn't get to start until the last two-thirds of his career. But is one of the great clutch players in the history of the league, even now, and made all kinds of crazy shots. We covered some of them in the documentary. So Russell, then Bird and Havlicek, then Koozie Collins and Sam Jones. Then these next four, pretty easy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, Golden State is a good example of knowing who you are because the Brandon Ingram trade was sitting there for them for whatever season. They're like, this is the kind of guy that doesn't work out for us. He needs a ball. He's a little bit of a ball stopper. Him playing without the ball isn't awesome. Kerr had him in Team USA. Didn't work out great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He basically didn't even... I don't even think he played the last two games. But they kind of held the fort. And then they... Which ties into... We want to talk about Jimmy. Bring in Jimmy and you're keeping your fingers crossed that he's going to behave himself. But knowing that there's a hoops IQ element with him...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But then now there's this whole low post and space and Steph pulling guys away and basically you're able to play four on three a little bit with Jimmy as your low post guy, as weird as that is. They've never really had a low post guy like that since... I don't know. Durant, if you count him, but he's kind of like a medium post guy. David Lee going way back. I guess you could throw him the ball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Little bogey, maybe. There's a tiny bit of bogey, a tiny bit of David West. But Butler, it's been, and we're taping this before they play tonight, but it's been really fun to watch the different space that they have now. Steph's stats have immediately gotten better. I mean, he's just, it's already had an effect on him. And the more, I loved the trade when it happened. We were really bullish on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I bet on the Warriors when I was at the Super Bowl to make the playoffs on FanDuel. Um, the more I'm staring at it, like I do, there are some Rasheed Wallace 04 parallels. Ooh. Where, um, you know, both of those guys, neither of them had actually won a title, but gotten really close. Both of them were just unbelievably talented. Both of them wore out their welcome at the road place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And both of them were, um, a non-sexy asset because of what had happened, but they were still assets. And then it's like, what if we can take this and move this here into this culture with these people? What does this look like? It's very hard to pull those trades off. We've seen a lot of people try to pull off the 2004 Rashid trade. They might've done it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
This is a team that had no championship ceiling at all. And now they're a team that we have to at least mention.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Iguodala is a good one for that because some of the defense that he brought to the table is some of the stuff Butler's doing for them too. I'm really intrigued by them. And Lakers are another one. I think he's going to fit in easier with Golden State than this Lakers situation. I've already gone on the record. To me, they're a legitimate contender. But it's a pretty dramatic trade for mid-season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Kevin McHale, who is one of the 40 best players of all time. And I think if he doesn't hurt his foot, maybe even can climb up into a potential, I don't know, in the 20s. I don't think it's out of the realm that he could have been in a KG Barkley area, but was never able to recover from all the playoff games they played. But best low post player I've ever seen, him and Akeem. Paul Pierce.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
The history of the league is it's really hard to make a trade like that halfway through the year and then actually have it lead to you making the finals or better. There's some examples, but not somebody as talented as Luke is. The league is so much more fun than it was a month ago because Golden State was not fun to watch. I hated watching the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And now you have these two that it just feels like we have enough teams. I think Memphis is really interesting because, you know, Ja, Ja will have these games where he's like nine for 25, but he makes the two biggest shots of the game. He's not making threes at all. He still plays the same kind of reckless offensive game that always works out for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He hasn't really evolved from that at all, but he's still like they're down six down a point or down one with six seconds left. I just feel like he's scoring. He's one of those guys, you know, like in a playoff series, I'm not positive I'd want to see them. And I also don't think they could win the title. So I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I think the league got really interesting and I was not interested a month ago. How about you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It's fun to think of teams even five, 10 years ago and how they would have competed in the league now, the way how deep everything is. Because I do think the league is just better. And I think that the teams are deeper in a way that that whole model of the mid-late 2000s. I'm not sure. Like the 2017 Warriors would still be awesome.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But you go to like that 2019 Raptors team that won. And I know Kawhi was awesome. But he wasn't as awesome in the last two rounds as I think. When we think back and we think like, oh my God, playoff Kawhi in 2019. It was like, all right, the last two rounds not quite as good. They got a really good Van Vliet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
one series and you know they patched it together they had some really good competitors but I look at that team now and it's like with that team would you pick that team ahead of Boston or Cleveland in a playoff series from what we have this year I wouldn't with Gasol and Kawhi and Siakam I think Ananobi missed the playoffs Dan Tweet Lowry I just I think that's that's the third best team in the East so you go back and you look at some of these like that Bucks team that won in 21 and
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I don't think that team could win now. That Phoenix team that made the finals, built around Booker and CP3 and DeAndre Ayton and Bridges and Cam Johnson, that team's not making the finals now. There's no way. That league's just better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
The Murray injury was a big one that year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
The title changes everything for him, right? If the KG trade doesn't happen, who knows what happens with the second part of Paul Pierce's career. Instead, he belatedly develops into this awesome playoff guy, crunch time guy down the stretch. He just has this whole second career. Also really durable and an excellent scorer and went head to head against LeBron. A lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I think people think I'm doing a bit and trying to reverse Jinx Cleveland when I talk about how good I think they are. I think that team's really good. I think it's going to be really hard to win a seven-game series against them, especially when they have a game seven.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And the biggest thing that's changed, everyone's talked about how Mitchell, when they gave him the contract, and he's just pulled back enough that it's still his team, but other guys get to shine. Garland's healthy, but Mobley's the big difference.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Cause I feel like his three is going in now, you know, last year it was like, please shoot that you're not making that you there's no way it's gonna be ugly line drive. Now he's shooting with confidence and, um, it's a team that has four of the best 50 guys in the league. Mitchell's in the top eight. Mobley's probably in the top 20 to 22 at this point. And then Hunter is a fifth guy is nuts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And I gotta be honest, like everyone's already given the six man award to Peyton, to Peyton Pritchard. who's, it's weird. You have to watch him because his stats are better than Ty Jerome. And part of the reason they're better is because he's had games where he played in place of Wade or no Jalen Brown. And they just let him go off and I'll have like 29. So maybe that's why he should win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I think Ty Jerome's been the best bench guy in the league. Especially in these big games. He's like swinging games. Pritchard will have games against certain teams when he just looks like an undersized guard who can't do anything and teams are attacking him. Ty Jerome looks like, it's like, is this guy a $100 million player? What is he?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
So I just don't think that sixth mate of the year is over yet because I think he's been playing great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Cade's the favorite on FanDuel, and I think that's justified.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, the leap that he made. Now, this is like usually most improved is either one of two things. It's either I was here, and now I'm here, or it's like nobody was even fucking talking about me last year, and now I'm here. Cade becoming a top 10, top 12 guy in the league, which I think he is. You've seen it during this win streak. You saw it last night. Yeah. that's probably the winner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But yeah, Peyton Pritchard is my, is he's plus one. Oh, Beasley. I forgot about him. He's three to one. And like Ty Jerome, Ty Jerome's 50 to one on Fando. I'm like, is there a better sub than him? I guess they have Ahmed Thompson as a, as a six-man candidate. That's a weird one. I feel like he's a starter, but what do I know? I guess Beasley's a good choice, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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My point is, I don't think Pritchard has that award locked up by any means. Beasley's been amazing for Detroit. If he'd played like this on Milwaukee last year, they might have been able to survive until Giannis came back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, yeah, they, the defensive player of the year, Moby is the favorite for that one too, which, you know, some of this stuff's going to play out and then rookie of the year, um, which is just grisly right now. Castle is the favorite, but this is among the worst rookie of the year candidacy classes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Are we in Michael Carter Williams territory where, uh, we might be, well, that was tough because he just had fake stats on a team that stunk. Um, but yet I still like this rookie class. Where, where do you stand on it? You obviously did a lot of work on it last year for us. The you happy, unhappy, medium, unclear. Where are you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And his team's won against LeBron at not a super young point in LeBron's career either. So he's in there. Jason Tatum, who I think right now I have him fourth level and I have him ninth overall, definitely has a chance to leapfrog a couple of these guys pretty soon. I think especially if they won back-to-back titles this year, I think he has to go into the top six at that point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Are you surprised by Shepard, though? Because you were pretty high on him at least being like a bench guy right away, right? I'm kind of amazed he's not playing at all for Houston. I don't really know the reasons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, it seems like it's the worst it's been.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Some signs the other night. I'm all in. I haven't sold any of my Dillingham stack.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I like that he seems like a great teammate and a real competitor too, which I like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh, that's a good one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Who's your favorite non-Cooper flag college guy right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I'm fascinated by the other Rutgers guy. And I know he's either going to break hearts. Ace? I'm fascinated by Ace. I don't know what he is. If I was a GM, I think I'd be afraid to be like, all right, this is my third pick. I'm going all in on this guy because... There's a chance it just is not going to translate to the NBA in the right way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But there's another alternate universe where it's like, this guy seems legitimately unstoppable. Yeah. And what is this going to look like if he just figures out a couple things? His offensive... The shot making is just really unusual. I don't want to compare it to Durant because that's like, you know, sainted ground.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But there's some stuff he does where I just don't think he'd be fun to play with, at least not yet. You know, it just seems like the ball's going to him. He's shooting. He's one of those guys. But there's some shot-making stuff with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Bill Sharman, who is the best two guard in the league for the first 15 years of the league. Warren's mentioning just first team all NBA year after year. Good score. And also weirdly, I think People seem to think he was the toughest guy from that era. He was just cold cock people for the hell. I didn't like the way you set that pick on me. I'm just punching you. So I'm putting him in there.
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You think he could be that good defensively?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You take him and you're either, it's going to work out and you're getting a four year extension or you're, you're going to be on NBA TV in a year. It is a risk reward pick, but I am fascinated by him and his teammates really good too. I mean, as his teammate is a way more traditional, this is the kind of guy we've seen succeed in the NBA over and over again. I don't have a lot of takes on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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On him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's really crafty. He's going to be a really good NBA player. I don't know if he's going to be an all-NBA guy, but he'll be good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The foreign guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I gotta say, I've been impressed by Duke, just the team that they have. They have a bunch of guys that I could just see on NBA teams down the stretch, but I admittedly have not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I mean, one of the wrinkles for me is I've never watched women's college basketball during the regular season before, and I've actually watched women's college over men's college a couple times, which has been really surprising to me. So I feel like I'm not as versed on the men as I usually would be at this time of year. But I have watched...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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a bunch of Duke and, um, for them to not at least make like the final four final two, I just feel like something really bad would have had to happen during a game. Like they just go ice cold. They just seem really complete. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then the final level, the last five, Kevin Garnett, who was only with the Celtics for six years, but that 08 team. And then the first half of 2009, they make the 2010 finals. They almost make it again in 12. And a beloved Celtic too. I think the most popular Celtics ever. Since my dad has had season tickets now since the 73, 74 season bird was the most popular.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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There's finally, we finally have more time to watch stuff. Hey, so I want to talk Celtics a little bit because we got the big documentary Celtics city coming on March 3rd, Monday on max and on HBO. Um, you follow the history of the league. You try to intersect it with the guys we're watching now. Is there anybody from all of the different Celtics errors that you would love to have seen in 2025?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh man, that's a great question. I mean, bird, bird, you can't count bird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Cause I feel like McHale is now a unicorn that will never happen again because whatever version of McHale happens in 25, that guy's just shooting threes all the time. It's up, which started to happen to McHale near the end of his career. He started stretching them four more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I just don't know if a low post guy would ever have that arsenal moves anymore because you'd be, it would just be banged in your brain to shoot threes and clear space, get out of the way for other people. I don't see it happening again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Just like a little shangoon shangoon on Houston. Tiny bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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McHale became a better passer than... because he played with Bird. It was that osmosis thing. I think if McHale's on another team, he's probably like 1.1 assists a game. But I think when you play with somebody who's just always making extra passes, there's no way you don't start doing it. It's one of the great things about basketball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, I guess like you would have had, McHale would have been a center. You would have put shooting all the way around him and just tried to get him on the low post with space. And that would have been a good one. The types like the Parrish types, Those guys now, they're just valued completely differently in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Because back then, every team needed one or you needed a center to guard the other centers. And now, those guys are like $15 to $20 million players. Or you'll see a team like the Lakers. They're just like, I guess we're just not going to have a center. Or it's somebody like the way the Celtics use Porzingis and Horford as these stretch fives with size that...
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you know, ideally you can kind of play them off the ball and then have them come flying in on the paint. It's just, there's not a lot of parish types now. Detroit probably plays the closest to what an old, older era team plays like, right? Yeah. They have size and rebounding and they're tough and nasty.
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And I really think the next two were probably Callens and Garnett in some order. And I don't know who was ahead of who, but in terms of just beloved by the crowd and the fans, Garnett has to be up there. Tommy Heinsohn only played for like eight or nine years because this was the smoking drinking era.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They have a couple shooters and then they have one really good offensive player and it's just kind of, it's like a 1991 type of team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. We had a few of those. Havlicek's definitely one, um, who was, uh, incredibly important player to the league in the seventies, especially as one of the legacies to Russell and the Celtics, but also like as the ABA is getting more and more fun, he's one of the few stars they had left. Uh, Reggie Lewis was a big one. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Um, and we hadn't really seen that, you know, we, we have a lot of Reggie stuff and the last third of the series. And, uh, I just think he's one of those that kind of came and went. People remember he died, but they don't remember how good he was and how important he was to the Celtics. That was another one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Then there's moments as you go through where you're trying to explain the impact of somebody. Koozie. I mean, Koozie is a big part of the first episode. How important he was to the league. The league just wasn't entertaining. They didn't have a shot clock for eight years. And it was just a bunch of... You've seen some of the old videos. It's brutal. And it's just a lot of big guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it's a lot of set shots and running hooks. And then Koozie comes in and he's... easily the most fun player in the league. And he's the most fun player in the league probably for the first 15 years of the league until Elgin and Jerry West and Oscar kind of get going. And the way he ran fast breaks and just some of the old footage. It's like, it's impossible not to enjoy
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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the way those teams played. It's so different. It's the same sport, but it has no correlation to what we're watching now. Everything's about three on two, three on one, two on one, four on two. Can we get a layup? Can we get a layup? Can we get a layup? And that's like the driving force.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Now you're running in the same place and the guys are splitting out to the corners and Kuzi would be running and he'd be like doing like over the head tosses to somebody in the corner. It's just completely different. So yeah, there is some pressure with some of that just to explain like, hey, here's why this person was special for four minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think they were just having cigarettes at their timeouts, but was an awesome, awesome forward and a big score rebounder came through a couple of times in the playoffs, outplayed some forwards out really good, like Bob Pettit. So he's in there, Robert Parrish, 13 years, I think, with the Celtics, maybe 14, three titles. Wasn't on that Kareem level as a center, but was on that second level.
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And then it was really, really physical. You know, you're just, people are just like, it was more like hockey. They called them cagers, you know, the first 15 years of the league. So it's a, it's a different sport. The other thing with the assists, like they're scoring all these points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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You only got an assist if it was like the guy is catching the ball and like laying in or the guy is catching it and shooting immediately or they didn't count it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Oh my God. I mean, they complained, they must complain about so many different things, but, uh, like the equipment they had, the money they didn't make, uh, all the statistical rules against them. But, uh, but yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And then, you know, it's, it's, we try to use the Celtics as a lens to look at the league and the sport and how it changed and how it intersected with America and all these different ways. And, it is hilarious how the footage changes over the years. Even you watch the stuff from the 80s, like we have a big part about the Boston Philly series in 1981, which is like probably my favorite series ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But that becomes... it's just a UFC fight. It's like a 10 man UFC fight. There's no spacing at all. Every time somebody goes to the basket, they're just getting clobbered and it becomes this kind of hybrid of like rugby basketball and UFC by the fourth quarter. And that's like, you just wouldn't, you wouldn't really see that.
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Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. We did this big docuseries for Max and HBO that premieres on March 3rd, Monday. It is about the Boston Celtics.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We see elements of that sometimes with the big tense games, but not like that. There's not, there's not, there will never be another series like that. I don't think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah, that's how the 85 Lakers won the finals. They just stacked it. And if you watch some of the footage from that, Danny Ainge and DJ, they're not just wide open from three. They're wide open from like 18. So Lakers are so packed. They're just not letting McHale and Bird beat them. And they're just like, take those 18 footers all day. And the Celtics kind of didn't know how to respond.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And when you watch it now, you're just like, why didn't you guys move back? You would have just had wide open threes. You would have made one out of every three. The points per possession would have been more, but... You know, nobody really thought that way. There's a lot of good stuff. I think for the basketball junkies, I think they're going to be pleasantly surprised.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We were able to pack a lot of stuff in this thing. You believe in the Pistons yet, by the way? I forgot to ask you about them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think he even had a second team on NBA, so he's on there. JoJo White. Another guy really underrated from the 70s. I had him in the pyramid when I did my book in 2009 and had his most famous moment other than winning two titles was the triple overtime game, which is one of the great performances by a non-superstar that we've ever had in the finals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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It's a tough one. And Marcelo never wavered on Cade. Neither did I. I don't understand it. But I think, you know, he was a different guy than he was this year. Yeah. And everyone's admitting, really, from the last couple months, anyone who listened to any of our stuff or any of the stuff we were doing, it was like something really good is happening with Cade Cunningham here. Mm-hmm.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And it keeps going and going and going. And the veteran shooters they put around them, I think is a good model for how to build a team. It's interesting though, Like right now they're sixth. They have a chance to bump to four or five. If I were them, I'd want to be in that sixth spot and I'd want to play the Knicks because I think they could give the Knicks a shitload of trouble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're a really tough physical team. They're probably, if they're not the best rebounding team in the league, they're in the top three. Um, I just would want to see them in a playoff series and it's probably a year too early. It's probably like what Orlando is like last year. It was like, Oh, watch out for these guys. And then they shoot 20% in a game seven.
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But, uh, when you can rebound and you have veteran shooting and you have one guy that you can go to in the last five minutes, I just, I'm taking you seriously. So I knew they were going to beat the Celtics last night. No Jalen Brown, third game and fourth night. It's kind of a bad matchup. Celts are kind of stuck in the second spot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Like that felt like a loss, but it's still a really nice win for Detroit. Like they've won eight straight. I'm taking them. I'm taking them seriously as at least the first round upset threat. I think you have to think of them that way now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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their top five net last 15 games or plus 7.6. That's like you're, if you're in the top five for a 15 to 20 game stretch at this point of the season, I think you have to be taken seriously. Anyway. All right, Kyle, man, I'll, I'll, we'll, you'll come back at some point when we're in the March madness throws, but it was good to see you as always.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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All right. Susan Morrison is here. She works for the New Yorker. She wrote a big biography on Lorne Michaels that came out last week or this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Last week. And how long were you working on it? Because it felt like this was like almost a decade's worth of work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think he played 60 of the 63 minutes I went to that game. I barely remember it. But there was the famous image of him just sitting on the court at the end because he was so wiped out. But he was just a top 10 NBA player for six, seven years. And then Jalen Brown's my last guy. I think he belongs. You win a title, he wins finals MVP. the durability with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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How did you convince him to do it? Because you got some, I mean, you spent an entire week behind the scenes in an episode Jonah Hill hosted last decade, but also it just seemed like you got a lot of Lauren time, which is pretty unusual.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The fact that in the 2020s, this team is just relevant year after year because of the Tatum-Brown connection. I think he has to be in there. So toughest cuts for me, Paul Silas, Dennis Johnson, Cedric Maxwell, Ray Allen, Don Nelson, Casey Jones. Red Auerbach as the coach. That's all I got for you. That's my Celtics pyramid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I was shocked that he let you hang by his side for an entire show like that, especially if they're having pretty candid conversations about Jonah Hill was the host that week and the psychology of getting a host to either buy into a sketch or sometimes like him not wanting to promote mid-90s. Lauren didn't want to promote it, even though Jonah Hill had this movie he directed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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He's like, we don't do directors. We only do actors. But all the little tidbits you got from that, I just couldn't believe... he allowed, he allowed you in that inner circle. But do you think part of it was because he knew the book was coming out so much later than that episode that it was okay? Like if he had done it and it had just all run like a week later, I think that would have been weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But seven years later, it seemed okay. Cause there's a lot of other stuff in there too. Like they're having problems with Leslie Jones that week. And she's hitting that point where she's probably outgrown the show and everybody's realizing it. But You had all this stuff in there that after seven years, it seemed more benevolent than maybe in 2018.
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Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Coming up, gonna talk basketball with Kyle Mann and we are gonna talk Lorne Michaels with his biographer. It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Crash. We are going to do another Oscar winner. this coming Monday night.
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Well, because if you go back to the 80s and there was that great book that Hill and Weingrad wrote about the first 10 years of the show. And as they're finishing that up,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Woodward comes out with the book about Belushi and they talk about in the Saturday Night Live book that came out about the 10 years, like there was a chill with those guys because they felt like they were burned by the Belushi book. They'd given Woodward all this access and then he just steered the book toward basically the cocaine downfall of Belushi.
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And it seemed like they were, they basically made it seem like Lauren kind of scaled back right at the end. And he hasn't really done anything since. And I was wondering like, did he feel like, All right. Was it because you even have a quote in the book about basically he's like the less talking you do about how well you're doing, the better off you are, which I thought was interesting.
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But then at the same time, he's letting you do this book.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So you can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify, check out our ringer movies, YouTube channel as well. That's also where Sean fantasy will be going live with his big picture crew right after the Oscars on Sunday night on his big picture podcast, which is also available as a video on Spotify. Uh, we're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.
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Yeah. I felt that same way when he let me do the pod in his office. I think he knew, like, I love the show and, you know, it meant a lot to me. And I had a lot of history with it. What struck me when I interviewed him, first of all, his recall is amazing. Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I was really surprised by just how specifically he could remember stuff going back to the seventies and eighties, like it happened yesterday. But the thing that you mentioned earlier about how this book could be like a, almost like a, like a business class for management. That was his sense of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
how to direct people, how to nudge people, the different points of a career you hit, um, knowing what the shelf life is of a relationship with somebody and whether they're going to leave or actually whether they're going to stay under the umbrella and just kind of stay there or they're just going to go. And are they going to come back?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It seems like he's probably put more thought into this than just about anybody. Cause a lot of people have managed successful companies and,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
not a lot of people have managed a successful company that also has to do with all the things that come with fame and managers and agents and the temptations and, you know, whether you stay loyal to the infrastructure of the show or you leave and you do something else. And it just felt like he had put like an extraordinary amount of thought into it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And that was one of the things I loved about your book is like, it's really in there. Like you really feel like all these different examples of like, it's time for them to go or they're going to find out the hard way that they shouldn't have left. Like he, it just seems like that's like one of the legacies of Lauren basically.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But it's the thing, like if it lasts more than 15 minutes, you just stay an asshole or you had some quote like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
30 on 30 lives on our profit boost token, which we're doing every Friday, the rest of the way, I think, except for March Madness. You can bet on any 30 plus point score you want on Fridays. I tweet out my picks. I love this because I love just looking at the, the matchups, how many teams, uh, if you played four games in five nights, any of that stuff, and just try to guess who's going to go off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah. Just like, oh, I learned this from Flip Wilson. Oh, I learned this from Lily Tom and he just takes it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, you did a good job with this because there's a couple eras with that. Where he just trusts the infrastructure and that there's going to be upheaval above him. And if he could just kind of hold on to the steering wheel. And the thing he says over and over again to people is you just got to stay in the air. You just got to keep it going. How do I stay on?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Because the most famous stage for this was probably the Don Ulmer era, the mid-90s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He's trying to get rid of the show. And Lorne could have escalated it, turned it into nuclear war, and maybe he gets bounced. But he just kind of...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
So be sure to claim the PBT. Place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Don't forget about TheRinger.com. Don't forget about Celtic City premiering Monday night, March 3rd on HBO and Max. And we're going to have it every week for the next nine. So buckle up because it's a really good one. Coming up on this podcast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, you have a couple good stories about the shelf life of the moment you have. One of them was the Smothers Brothers, right? Where it's like they were cool and then you fade, you turn into something else. He could feel it probably happened in the early 80s when Letterman became the cool show, which you talked about too. SNL is all of a sudden a little late and Letterman is now the new person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I mean, one of the great things about this book, I knew so little about that five-year stretch when he wasn't on SNL. And just like grabbing all of these different ideas and things and really none of them worked out other than just getting Broadway video to buy a bunch of IP from the show, which turned out to be really smart financially, but all the creative stuff, none of it really worked out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But it also, I mean, you laid out part of why he went back to SNL in 1985 is it didn't seem like he totally knew what to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And this was like the one thing that he knew he was good at and he had tried all these other things and it just never totally fit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, we should mention the show's probably dying if he doesn't come back. Yes, they were going to yank it. They were going to cancel it. He's got that guilt trip part of it, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I'm going to talk to Kyle Mann, our old friend from The Ringer, about Cooper Flag. It's time. It's late February. We got to do it. And we're going to talk about a bunch of NBA trends and some other stuff as well. And then Susan Morrison, who wrote the definitive Lorne Michaels biography that came out last week. I loved it. I just made her come on. We spent an hour and just talked about Lorne.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, I like that part of the book.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, I liked how you laid that out, that some people, their weakness is they can't stop tinkering with something. And it could be anything, right? It could be a magazine feature you're editing. It could be documentary. It could just somebody that never feels like it's done and they can't make final decisions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But when you're out on Saturday, 1130, one of my favorite things about your book was that process of going between dress rehearsal, And and you laid out everything that happened in that Jonah Hill show from dress rehearsal. Yeah. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
So when they go live, when Lauren turns into like a different human and he's just like, all right, here's what we and it's like the one time all week where he's just he has to make decisions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, one thing that was, and I'd never really thought about it correctly until I read what you wrote, but like, I never thought of all the factors. I would always think like, Oh, he'll just pick the seven funniest things, but the stuff he's weighing about, like, is this cast member and the cast too much? Um, Did the audience respond in the dress rehearsal?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Are we going to have the right amount of energy in this part of the show? So he's like he's on some different plane that it seems like only he can see this, which makes me wonder how anybody can take that job after even though he's 80. Right. But like, how do you come in? And there are all these other factors beyond just what's funny, what's not funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Now, maybe somebody would just approach it completely differently and be fine. But I just hadn't thought about it before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I had a great time. So that's the podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. J. Kyle Mann is here from The Ringer. Hasn't been on in a while. Missed talking hoops with him. I was waiting to pull the Cooper flag ripcord with him. And then this week, Jim Boeheim compared him to Larry Bird. And I was like, all right, let's officially have the combo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It's just, so the whole week is about him peaking for that hour. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, one of the great things about that week you spent with the show was the show that's in dress rehearsal and then gets the sketch that gets bumped is this Beavis and Butthead sketch that they couldn't figure out. And then they end up doing it with Ryan Gosling last season. And it's one of the best shows of the decade. And it's like, holy shit, that's the same sketch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It was dead for five years and came back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I mean, they must have like 10 of those a year where they're like, I can't believe he didn't pick that one. Let's just like save it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Right, right, right. Yeah, there's reasons he didn't do it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Right. Well, I mean, going through the years, One thing I appreciated was he was really, really grateful for some cast members that popped up at the right times. And the guy that he really effusively praised was Dana Carvey, who I still feel like is the most underrated star of the 50 years. He doesn't get mentioned in the Mount Rushmore, but he should.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And he was basically... Lauren has these different quotes. She was like, this guy was a machine. This guy could do everything. We were able to ride him for the late 80s, basically. And it seems like... He felt that way about Ackroyd. He felt that he wasn't there for Eddie Murphy, but Eddie's in there. Will Ferrell was like that. Was there anybody else that he talked about where it was just clear?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Lauren was like, this is a Mount Rushmore guy for me or lady.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Right, he's a force of nature. Well, you had that great thing about Ackroyd about how if they needed to do the sketch in three minutes instead of three and a half, he would talk faster to make them move it along.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It is about eight decades, how they intersect with the NBA and the city of Boston. and America and all the great players and robberies and feuds. And we're all really proud of it. So Monday, March 3rd, it's coming. In the meantime, I have a little pyramid for you. Celtics pyramid. I narrowed it to 15 players and we're gonna do it right now. Here it is. 15 players. And the catch is,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Right. Hayter said once to me that the unbelievable thing about her was every single character she ever did was slightly different than there was no like, Oh, I'll do this and I'll just have a wig on. It was like, each thing was slightly different than the other thing. Like she was just re just inventing new people each time, which they were like, how does she do that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, I'm with you. I did my all-time cast, and she was the one... That was like one of the toughest cuts for me. Because I just feel like for four or five years, she was... It could do anything. I also like the people that can sing and perform and do sketches and do characters. There's some sort of total package thing that... I think only a few of them have really pulled off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I was going to wait until we got to March Madness, but now I couldn't even make it out of February. He's gotten better every week. The highlights have been fun. The game situations have been fun. It's crazy that he's only 18 years old and is the all around guy that he's already seems like he's becoming a Duke. I think people are raising their ceilings to him. I hate the word generational.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Um, we're going to take a break and come back and I want to talk about Lauren as Confucius. Okay. All right. Lauren as Confucius, which seems to be a recurring theme with everybody who's been in his orbit. He just dropped shit. Like I, I just, I took down some couple of things from your book that I screenshotted. He was talking about Belushi taking Chevy Chase's overnight fame, the hardest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And he said, there's a certain kind of person who, if they're not famous by 26, they're going to burst into flames. Yeah. Which I thought was like, yeah, he's, he's probably seen that too. These people that come on the show and they're like so anxious to have it all happen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But it seems like he seems to feel like, except for the rare exceptions, like Carvey, you almost need two years on the show before you can become who you are. Like what, what did you find out when you're researching the book? Like what's the, what's the arc of a cast member to actually be really good on the show?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah. Well, then there's someone like Kristen Wiig comes in and she's just immediately, you could tell she's going to be on the show for seven years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And the week I was there... Eddie Murphy did that too with Raheem Abdul-Muhammad. The first time he did that, that was it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It feels like it's getting thrown around too much. I think a better word is just unique. There's just not prospects like this anymore who are as good on both ends and as additive all over the place. And I'm trying to debate how excited to get about this because, as you know, these are my type of players. I'm just trying to make everyone better. I'm just super competitive. How can I fit in?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But yeah, that was another Lauren Confucius thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
What if I'm both? Yeah, you had a,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
the one I mean this is another one we was talking about Chevy Chase when he said the idea that you could feel things for somebody and then you run out of it I realized so people burn out of relationships and he said that about he said that about a family member but he was talking about Chevy Chase like sometimes the professional relationship it just is what it is it's supposed to be four five six years and then it's over and that's it's like real life
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, the fame back then too, it's 30 million people watching the show potentially on a Saturday night. It's just different level.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I think that's one of the reasons I connect with the... the whole structure of the show because it's a lot like sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
You have to constantly think about like, all right, this person's taken off. I probably only have them for two more years. Now I got to develop a bench behind them. Another thing that I loved, I should have mentioned this three minutes ago, but his hatred of agents and managers and how... how just their agenda doesn't align.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
You know, all they're doing is just trying to get whoever the most amount of money possible. Yeah, they don't care about career. They don't care about relationships and how he tries to navigate that. But it's like one of the few things he can't hide his contempt for, which is like these people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
They're half asleep, yeah. More stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
These are my favorite guys. So how excited do I get, Kyle, man?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah. Well, yeah, it's like a live sporting event. Well, you had stuff in there about how a compliment from him is... It's rare. So when you get one, it means something. But it is... The cast members that succeed the best, I've talked about this, it's like a basketball team where... When you play basketball, it's not just about, oh, clear out, I'm going to score.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Like you're trying to make other people better. You're trying to connect with people. You're trying to move without the ball and set picks. And those are the people that always do best on the show. Here's another Lauren quote. The trouble with a thankless job is that no one thanks you. But you could put the shit in like fortune cookies.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And he talked about why he's devoted to the show. When it takes every ounce of my strength to get it on and there's nothing but resistance and nobody seems to give a fuck, then I want out because you can only give up your life for something greater than you. So far, it's been worth it. Now he's 80 and he's still giving up his life for the show. But there's other reasons for that, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Like the moment he's not running SNL, you're not getting your calls returned in quite the same way. Like there's a power that comes with the show that I think he's aware of.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He had a story about that you have in the book that I'd never heard about when Ray Charles was on the show. And he was going to be reunited with all these people that he had done all this great stuff with. And he's like, are you excited to see them? And Ray Charles said, most of them owe me money and wasn't excited at all. And he's like, all right, I'm going to tuck that story away too. Exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Down the road, you know, these special relationships I allegedly have might not be so special 20 years from now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Right. Well, and also when he went, when he stopped doing SNL after the first five years, you have a thing about, yeah, the phone's not quite ringing. Yeah. The same way. There's some Conan O'Brien stuff in this book that I've believed and felt for a while that you really got into.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And, you know, not like in a New York Post page six kind of way, but it was, you know, that he was the one person who did The Tonight Show and he moved to L.A. and he kind of left Lauren out of it, which has been atypical for everybody who's passed through the universe. And it seems it seemed a little chilly. Could you feel that when you were reporting it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But became a really fun performer on the show in his own weird way, which you covered nicely. He became a character somehow. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, but they also broke the rule where he found out from somebody else, not them, which seems like the one way to really cross Lorne.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, and I said this at the time when all that was happening because we were doing podcasts about it. I just don't think what happens to Conan happens if Lauren's involved. He was too powerful and he meant too much to NBC. And if like the whole Leno, it just wouldn't happen. I think Conan's protected.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
A couple other things that I loved. When he brought Rob Lowe in for Wayne's World, he likes to hire people who've just had a flop because they work twice as hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Conan said about Lorne, A lot of people, myself, this is to you. A lot of people, myself included, think that Lauren has a secret and Lauren has made a career out of letting people think he has a secret. I think Lauren's real secret was to communicate to me, you have to figure out this show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
He's basically saying, I actually don't think Lauren has the secret, but he'll have like a really good thought starter that you can then take and run with it. That's how I interpreted that, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It's that they just trust his take on, if he's really passionate about one thing, they'll trust him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
You had a lot in the book about the imitation game with Lauren, which has started like, God only knows since the seventies and, um, and how aware Lauren is of it and how many different iterations they were and all these different, you know, the writers would have their thing and then Bill Hader would have his thing and it would just go on and Carvey and all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And Lauren would just seems like he's fine with it. Right. Cause you make fun of the boss. That's what happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Oh, interesting. Like just the family members?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
When do you think he realized that he was just going to be on the show and this was it? Like what year? It was somewhere between probably late 80s, early 90s where he just, all right, this is my life. This is what I'm doing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And a New York institution too, like simultaneously, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Even me, I hate New York. And even that, I remember rooting for the Yankees in the playoffs, hoping they'd get one for the city.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It's interesting because when they missed the moment, which I think, and you wrote in the book that after Trump got elected, when the way they started the show, it just didn't work. I didn't think it worked in the moment. I think people behind the scenes didn't feel like it worked. And now I don't think anybody looks back and thinks, oh, what a great moment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
A couple other things you were talking about in beats when she came back for the, uh, anniversary show. And he's kind of saying like, Oh, her career didn't kind of go the way maybe she thought it was going to go. And he said, um, you were like so many others who started the show beats. Michael said, didn't understand heat. They didn't understand that you're hot for about two or three years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And if nothing else happens, you go to the back of the line again, which it seems like he was painfully aware of with himself too. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
What's the most fair criticism you heard from him, from the people who were interviewing? That was like a recurring criticism.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
About him, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Right, he paid for funerals. He paid for Michael McDonaghy's funeral, even though he didn't like him. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, you're dealing with the ambitious people in their twenties and thirties. I mean, I'm sure I look back at some of the stuff I did like way back when I'm like, God damn it. Why did I do that? Yeah. And I'm sure they have a lot of those moments, especially a pressure cooker where it's Hunger Games every week. Everyone's pitted against each other. He said, you have this near the end.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
You can't spend the last half of your life watching the first half of your life, which is how he felt about nostalgia. Is that one of the reasons he's still working at age 80?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, the biggest thing that's helped him is that there's hasn't been a kick-ass threat competitor to come in. And I always thought Netflix, I just can't believe Netflix hasn't challenged him yet, but I think it's because Sarandos loves the show so much. He just doesn't want to challenge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, and comedy too. They're like at the, you know, they have this whole Netflix is a joke week out here. And the one thing that's missing is like an SNL type show, but I just don't think they're doing it until Lauren leaves.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, congrats on the book. I had you for an hour. I could have gone longer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
I thought it was so enjoyable because I'm so fascinated by him. But the management and perspective on success and loyalty and all that stuff, I just thought it was really cool. I love the way he laid it out. And the behind the scenes stuff with that Joan Hill show was just awesome. Like as a diehard SNL person, like I just thought it was so interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Well, congrats. Go get the book. Thank you. Thank you. Good to see you. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti. As always, don't forget, you can watch this as a video on Spotify. You can watch it on YouTube, on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can watch all of our rewatchable stuff on the Ringer Movies channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
And we have Celtics City, Get Ready, Monday night, March 3rd, HBO and Max, episode one, a nine-week journey about the Celtics and basketball and America and Boston and life. So that's happening. Enjoy the weekend. I'll see you with Priscilla on Sunday afternoon. We're going to tape, I think, right after the Denver Celtics game, which should be a barn burner. So enjoy the weekend. See you then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, if you're creating a stretch forward guy for the whatever, however we play basketball now, it would probably look something like this, right? Maybe you'd make him an inch taller. What is he, six, seven and a half without sneakers?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah. So maybe you'd add an inch there, but he's got the long arms. But this is everything you want for somebody next to some sort of big man who could have his hands around the rim and... and do all that stuff. When you try to compare them to people, Bird is the obvious one that everyone keeps like Bayham did just because it's a white guy who does a lot of stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
There's more Tatum with me than I think maybe, and maybe there's a Duke parallel with them too, but the way the Celtics use Tatum now as a point forward who can defend all these different positions on defense. I feel like that's going to be Flagg's destiny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
The difference is when Tatum came into the league, we knew he had a chance to be like a special player, but there were so many things that still needed to happen with him. He was a scorer. He felt a little Durant-ish. But there wasn't any semblance of the passing game that he has now or the defensive level that he's gone up to or even how much better of a rebounder he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
It has to be the Celtics version of them. So this isn't like Kevin Garnett. I'm not taking Kevin Garnett's whole career. It's just Kevin Garnett on the Celtics. Anyway, pyramid. Top level. One guy, Bill Russell. I have him as the number three all-time guy. 11 of 13 titles. The most important on and off court NBA star ever. Relevant. Greatest winner in the history of sports. Also relevant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Flag's kind of already doing all those things, and I just don't know what he looks like when he's 25. Because I assume he's just going to keep working as three point shot and eventually he'll just be like a 40 to 45 percent three point shooter. I assume he'll add a couple of low post things. I assume he'll get really good at passing out of double teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
But for the most part, to be this close to a finished product at age 18 from a skill standpoint, that's what's so unusual, I think.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, he got indoctrinated in the 86 Celts highlights from his great mom. One of the great moms of the last 40 years just showing him highlights.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison
Yeah, they would be like driving in the car watching like a DVD player and she had like old Celtic games because she wanted them to play like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The Ringer Sunday pregame show is my favorite Sunday morning show. You can watch it on YouTube TV. Just subscribe to it on YouTube TV. It pops up at 11 a.m. ET, 8 a.m. PT. You can watch it on FanDuel TV. You can watch it on FanDuel's Fast Channel as well. JJ, Raheem, House, Cousin Sal. For an hour and a half, breaking down all the games that are about to happen in the NFL on Sundays.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
If you're Houston and you can turn Fred VanVleet in your picks and Terry Easton in a Fox, you're doing it. If you're San Antonio... and you have a chance to add Fox to your mix, and you think you can resign him and put him with Wemby and Castle and some of your swings, and you just give up the pick strobe you have, you're probably thinking about that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But to get a top 15 guy who's a point guard who's in his prime, this is about as interesting of a trade piece as we've had, not counting when Durant suddenly becomes available, but a younger guy on his way up, like... I don't know. You thinking for DC? We trade all your picks? No. Five picks to Jordan Poole plus seven swaps? Oh, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's not a this season play as much as we now have a guy. We need a perimeter guy, preferably a guard, somebody who can handle his business, run the team, play off Wemby, who's like a clear, awesome number two. I mean, Fox is about, he's a top 20 player. That's about as good of a number two as you're going to get. Right. And he's available. Potentially. If I was the Kings, I wouldn't trade him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I would be like, no, we're not. We're keeping you. Sorry.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They have a DeRozan issue, though. I think they they might have bought a car that they might have. The odometer was turned back on. Yeah. Happens sometimes. It was like, I thought this car had 95,000 miles on it. Maybe it was 195,000.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think he'd be gone already if there was a trade. I just don't think there's a trade. And the most notable thing that seems to have happened in the last... couple, maybe the last week or so, is that Houston doesn't seem interested in him. They're like, we're good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Kuzma being in any trade rumors is hilarious. You've been watching him. I don't know what his trade value is, but I'm guessing it's low.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
If you can get a version out of him that hasn't existed for two years. Yes. So the Warriors have been mentioned with Butler. And I just, I don't know what the point is house because I just don't know if that's making a huge difference for them. You could talk yourself in a curry dream on a Butler, the old guys, let's make a run. But I, I just think the league's too good. They started out strong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They've gone the other way. They have a lot of like tradable pieces that have the minutes are all over the place, but he healed now all of a sudden scores five points a game. Podzemski is in the same asset. So. I don't know why Miami would want their stuff or want to pay Kaminga however much. I don't know what else. You had under for them, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
My man got right to come on. Come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. And there's a, I think we talked about this before the year. We were trying to figure out overrunners with the West. There were so many good teams. Some teams are just going to end up not being happy. And right now it's Sacramento and it's Golden State. And San Antonio is a little better than we thought. Denver is a little worse than we thought. Minnesota is a little worse than we thought.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But we knew it was going to be some... The NFL was way more easy to figure out this year, I think, than the NBA. The Celtics, you went under, I went over. And I am not going to... overreact to anything with the Celtics yet. Um, you were on it a little more about how hard it is to repeat. That was part of your under case, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. Well, so glass half full, Tatum and Brown are healthy. Athletically, physically, they seem great. Brown's a little hero, probably this year. Their shooting stats are down with him a little. I haven't loved that. There's little stuff I don't love, but nothing I'm super concerned about. Like they lost to Orlando on Monday night. this depleted zombie magic team. Orlando played great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I watched the game. The Celtics tried hard. They played well. Orlando just played awesome. They made big shots. They were super feisty. They were really fighting, and it was a really good game. It was an okay loss. The Philly game yesterday, that was Philly treated like a game seven. They came in, they really wanted to prove something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They couldn't have played harder and the Celtics couldn't match it. And, you know, I'm not, I'm not worried about that either. I think White's has been the same all month. Holiday was hurt. Porzingis keeps getting these dumb little injuries. Pritchard sometimes just doesn't show up. Yesterday, he sucked. I'm not going to really evaluate the Celtics team until the West Coast trip next month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That's all we'll know. All right. That's when we'll, we'll have a feeling for them. I don't love that they're four back from the calves, but, uh, but yeah, that's, so those are the big NBA storylines to me is just Milwaukee's better. Like Milwaukee, I think has moved back into contender ish kind of feeling Denver clearly needs to do something. And I don't know what the fix is for them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Um, Phoenix, I guess is the one kind of what's going on with this team. Um, that we thought was a contender. And I just say, it just seems like they have the worst centers in the league and they can't keep these guys in the same court.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But, uh, but for the most part, I don't, I don't think there's been any, any major surprises this year, other than Minnesota being as bad as, as they've been, even though they won yesterday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think you and Rosillo both did. Oh, great job. Yeah, the surprises were Houston, Memphis, Clippers, and then just San Antonio being a 500 team. I'm still not If it's okay, I'm still a little dubious of the Clippers. They're only 17 and 13. I mean, it is okay, yeah. They're only 17 and 13, and they put a lot on Harden.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I also think the way the NBA did this NBA Cup schedule combined with the Christmas schedule, Which, hey, newsflash, I'm going to criticize the NBA again. I just think they've completely mangled all of this. Like, why aren't there Christmas Eve games? Why are they just punting on a day where there's no sports? Why are they punting on these days when there's clearly no sports?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
When instead of like they load up the Monday, there's like 14 games on Monday. You can't even watch them keep track of anything. And then Tuesday, nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We did that on Spotify as a video podcast, so you can watch it on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Kind of weird. Yeah. So the reason I bring that up with the Clippers is the way they've structured this December thing, I think it's been good for the old guys. You know, like people like LeBron, Harding, Curry, you're not playing like four and seven. You're not playing five and eight. You're not, uh, you're not having these back to backs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You're not nursing these little injuries because you're not playing that much basketball. But now we're about to hit this stretch, especially when we get to January. where the schedule just gets really hard and it's going to advantage the young guys. It's going to advantage a team like San Antonio that has Webby and Castle and Vassell and all these young dudes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And I think it's going to hurt a team like the Clippers because the amount of offensive responsibility they're putting on Harden I don't know if it's sustainable once we get into these 16 games in 29 days kind of territory before February. So I'm watching that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think it's good for teams like Oklahoma City, Houston, Memphis, even a team like the Celtics that are built around two younger guys, Cleveland, you know. But then you look at a team like Orlando, 19 and 12, but really depleted. And once you're depleted and you get into these schedule things, kind of a nightmare. Milwaukee, it's good for it because Giannis is an alien.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Atlanta, it's good for it because they're built around all these young guys. Indiana, a team that we bet on earlier this week. I think it's good for them. So anyway, I would watch out. If you had to pick a final, who would it be?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Hope you had an awesome holiday. The sports was really fun. We were about to talk about all the basketball and the rest of the million dollar picks, which we did a little early batch, me and house on Tuesday for YouTube only. Probably should have given more of a heads up on that, but we wanted to get some Christmas picks in. We did really well.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, we'll see because they have, I mean, they have a pretty, they have a wet, they have a West coast trip coming up and then a whole bunch of games in January. I mean, they just in January from January 1st to the 19th, They have 11 games and that's not counting two games at the end of December too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So, you know, the way they're constructed, there's no way Embiid's going to play more than half of those games, I would assume. I don't love what I've seen from Paul George. I'd like to throw my voice into that chorus. Just doesn't look as comfortable. He doesn't seem 100% healthy to me. So I want to wait a month on that. But competitively, they looked really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The Caleb Martin is just like a Celtics killer at this point. I don't know what it is about Boston, but he rises to the occasion on it. So their season looked dead. Now they're 11 and 17. The problem for them is they have no room for error. That's right. You know, no more margin for error at all. Yeah. Like that, like one more maxi three week ankle sprain or indeed goes out for a month.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And all of a sudden you're looking at like the 10th playoff spot. Cause there's teams like Chicago and Detroit haven't really gone away. And I don't know if those are trade teams or not. Everyone thinks Chicago is, but I don't, they're not gonna be able to trade Levine. Who's taking Levine at that money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Somebody desperate enough. Maybe it's Vucevic. Sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I'm trying to think how they could hurt themselves. It would be trading one of those two guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
One thing that's a little different with the Lakers is Max Christie, who looked like a zero. He's actually been pretty good for them. for the last couple weeks. He's been okay. He's been passable. They can play him in crunch time. He might actually make an open shot. He can play defense a little bit, but it's something they didn't have a month ago. Anyway, all right, that's our NBA report.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We're going to take a break, come back with Million Dollar Picks. Sometimes the basketball 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you can get a 30% profit boost from the ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. We're teaming up with America's number one sports book to give you a 30% profit boost.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
When you either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game, just go nuts. I'm looking at Friday's slate. I always tweet my picks on my Twitter account on Friday because I like to look on Friday morning, see who's playing, see what the matchups are. You can join me, ride my picks, or just make your own.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday. Don't miss your chance to find out how much more 30 can be worth with FanDuel's 30 on 30. And speaking of FanDuel, don't forget about the Ringer Sunday pregame show on FanDuel TV and FanDuel Fast Channel and on YouTube TV.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Now we're going to keep the magic going later in this podcast. After we talk hoops, after the very top, I'm going to talk about this Jimmy Butler, Miami situation for a second. And then last but not least, my daughter who always comes on near the end of every year to do her teen culture awards. And it's a bittersweet year because she's coming on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. All right, million dollar picks. We're already up house. We won $300,000 on Christmas Day. Thanks to the Ravens. Merry Christmas. And thanks to the Chiefs. And we still have a Seahawks bet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We're taping this before the Seahawks game, but we have a Seahawks bet with Baltimore minus nine and a half adjusted. And the Seattle Moneyline, that was plus 312. So we could be up another like 155K after tonight. I like some of the games this week. I know you already did ringer gambling show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I didn't hear it yet because it's not up, but, um, the big game and the hardest one to figure out in a while. And I think the most even great matchup we've had all season is this Vikings Packers game in Minnesota and the Vikings. It's, it's around one, one and a half right now. It's Vikings one and a half. You can make really strong cases for each team. I think there's a lot of public.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
kind of love and affection for the Packers right now, which would make me a little nervous for them. Um, green Bay lost to them earlier in the year and green Bay is 10 and two in the last 12 weeks with two Detroit losses. And people are leaning green Bay in this house and we have to treat it like a playoff game means more to Minnesota. Cause if they can win this, They beat Detroit next week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They're the one seed. Right. Green Bay's pretty locked into the five or six seed. Not sure it matters. Where are you leaning on this one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And this is the last year we're doing teen culture because this is the last holiday she's going to be a teenager. She turns 20 next year. So we had a lot of stuff to cover. It was very, very fun. We actually did it as a video piece this year too, which you'll eventually be able to watch on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, along with all the other stuff we're doing on here. It's all next.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That game was over. They were up like four touchdowns. And then there was a lot of garbage time stuff with green Bay and it, it kind of belatedly somewhat became a game, but not really. Yeah. Okay. It was a lot of end of the game. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So I guess where I've landed in this game is if it was in green Bay, I would like green Bay. And cause it's in Minnesota. I like, I like Minnesota more. I just think these teams are dead even. Yeah. And you throw in the home field. There's one other piece with Minnesota though. First of all, I do think they're better than people realize. And we've talked about this a bunch on this podcast, but
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
they became a yeah, but team and we've had, yeah, but teams before that I thought was justified. Like there was that cousins Vikings team a couple of years ago that we were like, well, this team's not good. Well, this record's ridiculous. Look at it. They played the Vikings are eight. No with Hawkinson. Yes. Which I think matters. Yeah. The Vikings are sixth and DVO a green base. Third.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The Vikings are second against the run. They're first in creating turnovers. They have a top five pass rush. But the thing I really like the most about them is these two receivers they have with Hawkinson. I always feel like they can get a drive if they need it. And if this game's in the fourth quarter in their home, I just like their chances to go down the field.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Like one stat that I think is, I saw this and I was like, how is this the best total? But it is. They lead the league in least amount of percentage they've trailed when they're on offense in the game. They've only trailed for 22% of their snaps on offense. They've been trailing in the game, which basically means they're always ahead. They're always in charge.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They're always in the lead, which is good for home. But then they also have the ability at the end of games to get a drive if they need it and to make a big play if they need it. And Green Bay is going to do cover too. Like they, their defense actually matches up pretty good with the Vikings. But I like this Vikings team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And to me, it's like, if you believe in this Vikings team, you kind of have to take them this week. So if you don't, you're basically saying, I don't believe in this team. I don't know. Do we go that far? Yeah, I think this is a playoff game. I do. I think this is playoff rules this week. I think we have to approach it like playoff manifesto.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I'm saying for Minnesota, it's a playoff game. They win this game. They have a chance to be the one seed. They play Detroit. There's also a conspiracy bill. Would you like to enter this for one second? Go ahead. There's no Sunday night week 18 NBC game right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
First, our friends from Pearl Jam. Recording this Thursday mid-afternoon, it was after I had already recorded the rest of the podcast, but something happened with Miami Heat and Jimmy Butler that I had to mention here at the top. House and I had talked about Jimmy a little bit later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's either Minnesota, Detroit or Rams, Seattle, which we might not get if the Rams just beat Arizona this week, which we're going to have coming up a million dollar picks. The only other possibility is Minnesota, Detroit, but Minnesota has to win this game. And if that doesn't happen, Now we're into... Who'd you have? Carolina versus Atlanta?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Special guests. I pop on there from time to time. Playoffs were blown out. We're going to be Saturday, Sunday, the first two weeks. We're going to be live in LA on Saturday and Sunday in round one. So be ready. The Ringer, Sunday pregame show. Subscribe, follow, check it out. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
How is that good to have Carolina-Atlanta as the last game of the season?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Carolina is itch to spunky, but go ahead. I just wonder, do they... Does Minnesota get some calls in this game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Can't stay away. We have a big little nest egg of million-dollar picks, and this is the best game in a while. We have to put a bet on it. Go ahead. Let me give you something that I thought was interesting. Green Bay since week five. They're nine and two with two Detroit losses, right? Yeah. Here's who they beat. Matthew Stafford in week five with no Puka, no cup. Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Kyler Murray, CJ Stroud, no Collins in that game. Trevor Lawrence barely beat him. He had his best game of the year through for 300 plus yards against them. They won by three. Caleb Williams. They were up, Chicago's up the whole game and should have won and then Green Bay won it late. Brandon Allen on San Francisco. Tua on cold weather on Thursday night Thanksgiving.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Geno Smith and whatever the fuck was going on with the New Orleans quarterbacks last week. Those are all their wins. They haven't played anything remotely approaching Sam Darnold, Hawkinson, Addison and Jefferson and Aaron Jones. This is by far the best complete offense they've played. Now do Minnesota.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, I know Minnesota is the same thing, but I'm saying you can't use that case against Minnesota and then not use it against Green Bay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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But that's the irony of this. Both teams' most impressive win the last like two and a half months with Seattle, who also might not be good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Right? I don't think there's a wrong answer. I just feel like people have tilted more toward the Packers, and I feel like it's dead even. Well, Minnesota's favored. Well, they're at the minus one half because they're home. But I'm just saying. If this was in Green Bay, Green Bay would be minus one and a half over Minnesota.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So we're taping this at 1117 Pacific time. Yeah. December 26th, Thursday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The line is completely flipped. It's now Green Bay minus one and a half over Minnesota. So somebody stepped in. That's a syndicate play. That's a syndicate play. So the line moves three points. And now it's Minnesota minus 102 plus 1.5. and Green Bay minus 116. Somebody's taking a stand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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So you think Green Bay is going to get to minus two and a half?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Vikings being plus one and a half means they're now in tease territory.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, we can do it right away. We're taping million dollar picks as we speak. Good point. Any interest in throwing them in with the Miami Dolphins in Cleveland? Mm-hmm. There's going to be rain. So you tease Miami down to... Miami down, or we could basically do... Yeah, tease Miami. What is Miami? Six and a half?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We took out the part that isn't relevant anymore because Pat Riley came out and he said definitively, the Miami Heat are not trading Jimmy Butler. He's going to be on this team for the rest of the season. Came out and said it. Put it out in a statement so people could read it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
To a half? No, tease Miami down to Moneyline and do Miami plus seven and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What I want to see is where Jameis is listed in terms of, did you read, I was on Brown's Reddit today, which is one of the darkest places in the internet. It's just absolutely brutal. There's even on Brown's Reddit, there's even, um, Uh, should we make a run at Kirk cousins this off season?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
No. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That's a thread on Brown's Reddit. Oh yeah. It's dark, man. It's, it's some of the darkest shit you'll see. But, uh, Brown's Reddit was saying that apparently Jameis is hurt too. And if anything happens with DTR, it's Bailey Zappy time. Oh, well, now I'm feeling better. OK, now we can do Miami. Fine. Now we're good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's Bailey Zappi injured Jameis or it's DTR who has one touchdown and nine career picks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
For some reason, you're worried about Jameis. To me, I'm not worried about Cleveland's offense in this game. I'm worried about the Dolphins in the rain just doing a classic Dolphins stink bomb.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, the reason I brought them up for a teaser is just, You know, at some point, these teams, the franchises are kind of steering them toward a top five pick, right? I don't think the Giants want to win. The Raiders are stupid. They couldn't help themselves last week. But there's certain teams that I just feel like are good with not winning another game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And Cleveland to me feels like one of them. Like if you're Cleveland, Bailey Zappi is the move this week. We had Bailey Zappi on the pads. He is not a competent quarterback. You want to put him out against Miami next week. You want to bench like, or you want to rest like a defensive starter who's a little banged up. Like you, there's subtle stuff you can do to make sure you don't win again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because for sure, because there's a couple like Tennessee plays Jacksonville. Both those teams are three and 12. One of them are going to be four and 13 after four and 12 after that game. So Cleveland can jump up a spot there. The Pats might beat the Chargers for all we know. Like they they might be able to nudge up. Yeah, that was what I was thinking about. And plus, Miami really needs the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We don't see NBA teams do this that often, but I think it speaks to a bigger picture thing that we've discussed on this podcast a couple times now this month with this new first apron, second apron, how much harder it is to do trades. The NBA is starting to look a lot more like the NFL. It is so much harder to deal somebody during the season than it used to be, which is what Riley said.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They're still in the playoff race. Yeah, still in the race for sure. So maybe, because I have another tease I want to do with the two LA teams. Okay. So maybe we'll mark down something with Vikings Dolphins just for fun. Next one, and I'm split on this one too, is Bengals Broncos. You said on the Ringer Gambling Show that you like Cincy at home, minus three, in what's going to be bad weather.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're kind of technically alive still. Denver...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I was checking in with my buddy Gus. My buddy Gus, my only person in my life who truly knows the Broncos. And he was telling me when Moss got hurt, we're in major trouble. This guy, Levi Wallace is a disaster.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Levi Wallace has been cut. Released. He's not even on the team anymore. So long, Levi. Moss is back. So I feel like that. I know it's one guy, but I really feel like that's going to flip their secondary. He's an important guy. Yeah. There'd be no doubt. There's some other cases for them. Do you have more on your case? Because I was going to add some counters.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Last six weeks, Denver's fifth in DVOA, despite some of the secondary stuff and despite some of the turnovers by Knicks. Cincinnati's 29th against the run, their defense. Cincinnati's 30th QB hits. So basically, this is the perfect team for Denver to play with Bo Nix with the way kind of how up and down they've been. This is a team that will not pressure him, hit him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They're just not going to do anything. Denver's defense... They're first in hits, first in hurries. They're going to be able to pressure the Bengals' offensive line, not exactly like a juggernaut.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Well, then the Dallas game the week before, Dallas was going to beat them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right? Dallas is going to beat them. And Dallas is pressuring them and doing stuff. So I look at Cincy's wins. Here are the quarterbacks. Have you done this? No. Quarterback Cincy beat this year. Andy Dalton. Danny Dimes. Deshaun Watson and Thompson Robinson. Same game because I think that was the one Watson got hurt. Minshew. Cooper Rush. Will Levis. Thompson Robinson. It's not great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We're not dealing them during the season. We'll figure it out during the offseason. Butler's $48 million and then $52 million player option next year, which odds are he's going to exercise because nobody has cap space this summer. The only team is Brooklyn. He's going to go to Brooklyn. They're going to be rebuilding and just sign Jimmy Butler. I mean, it's conceivable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't think since he's good is where I'm really landing. And I think we think they're good because Burrow's good. No other real aspect of their team is good other than the receivers and Burrow. Now you can make the counter case when they have Chase and Higgins together with Burrow. They've just been really good and been able to move the ball. I get it. But I kind of like the Denver plus three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
In bad weather.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Or nine days rest. They're playing Saturday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This one... This one I love. The all-LA money parlay. Yes, this is wonderful. Great. Rams, home for the Cardinals. All the Rams have to do is win, and they win the NFC West. Chargers at the Pats. All they have to do is win. They're minus four and a half. And there's some subtle cases against them, right? Their offense isn't that good. They have trouble getting first downs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's the type of team, even if they had a lead, Drake May in the second half, doing stuff. There's a Ladd-McConkie piece that I don't think can be undersold with the fact that the Pats had that pick, traded back three spots for a guy who basically doesn't play, who had played three snaps. McConkey's just him running a mock in this game is almost a lock.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't know what the player props are for him, but chargers need the game. Rams need the game, and it just feels like a classic LA money parlay, and it's minus 114 on FanDuel, and I would like to partake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I just would have bet on it. And Pat Riley is looking big picture and looking at an NBA that now operates way more like the NFL, where it's way harder just to do big, complicated deals. And he didn't like the deals that were out there. And they clearly kicked the tires with a bunch of teams. Houston, I think, came out and said they weren't interested.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I had the Colts. That goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is certain teams are just done winning games this season. The New York Giants are one of those teams. The Giants are like, we're out. We are done. We are done. It's a wrap. You had them in the Ringer Sunday pregame last year. Or last week. Last week, yeah. And I was choosing. It was dumb.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I had already chosen Carolina as my underdog. No, it wasn't that bad. It was plus 350. Right, that's right. You knew within a quarter. It was like, oh, the Giants are done for the season. The Drew Locke pick six.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Oh, anchor strategy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Anthony Richardson, I just can't get there. If there's any quarterback who's ready to just single-handedly kill all of our Week 17 parlays and teasers, it's him. So I just want to proceed with caution.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. So a couple things with that Rams game really quick. Rams are sixth in DVOA last six weeks. Thanks to Aaron shots for that. They've won eight of their last 10. And I don't think people realize how grim this Cardinal situation got. Yeah. Missing both of their starting tackles on offense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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They're like, they're pulling practice squads in practice squad guys in that are now going to be starting for them. James Connor is hurt. Yeah. Play may not play. Their defense is falling apart. Hubbard had 152 yards last week. Carolina scored 36 on them. Sure did. It just is grim. And there's a reason the line is where it is. And, uh, cause initially I was like, Oh, cards upset baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And I looked at all the numbers. I was like, Oh my God, this is no way they're winning.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Chargers-Pats, the case for being nervous about this would be the Pats played well against Buffalo for about an hour and a half last week. I would just point you to 10 horribly game-managed, coached, executed plays. They can't help themselves. They surprisingly did not have a lot of penalties last week. Those penalties will come back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I think they're holding out for Darren Fox, which House and I talk about in a second. But you go around that Golden State. What's the point of them trading for Jimmy Butler? They're not even really a contender right now. And they're going to give up all these assets so they can try to be the fifth best team in the West on a very short window. I'm not doing that if I'm Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The Pats are just incapable of playing three good hours in a row. So for them to beat the Chargers, the Chargers would really have to fuck the game up. And I don't know if they're a fuck the game up team. I mean, that would be, you would have Jared Mayo beating Jim Harbaugh. You would have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You would have a team that would decide in week 17, maybe we shouldn't throw backward passes inside our own 10. Maybe we should punt down 10 with eight minutes left. Something would have to dramatically change with the penalties, the coaching, the execution. I could see them potentially backdoor covering that minus four and a half, but I did not see them winning. Yeah, I'm good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We're on the same page. All right. And then the last one I want to talk about, you mentioned the Colts Giants. I mean, we don't need to talk about that. Eagles Cowboys, that line has dropped too. It was 10, nine and a half all week. Now it's seven and a half on FanDuel. And I had had a bet that I mailed you last night or this morning. Oh, hold on. I see six and a half. Oh, shit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's still dropping, huh? Something's going on. Yeah, six and a half. Well, Hertz might not play is what's going on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. I had wanted to do an alternate, um, alternate bet with Dallas to four and a half when it was nine and a half, it was like plus one 72. That's now plus one 26. Um, which I still like more than the six and a half. But, um, so if we had the Cowboys, um, And we do an over of like, what, 37 and a half? I don't know. What are you thinking?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Do you think all the value's gone because of the Hertz thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I'm sure Phoenix would talk about Bradley Beal for Jimmy Butler, but why would Miami want to turn Jimmy Butler into Bradley Beal? Why would they want to do any of these trades? They already have somebody who... when he's pissed off and playing well, he's a top 30 guy. They're not just going to take more contracts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Oh, well, sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yes. Cause now we're talking that that's, those are the numbers. Okay, great. Yeah. I'm into that. That's a good one. Or doubt. Yeah. Cause I don't want to tease Dallas with another team. I want to confine it to the game. Great. Good. Yeah. Me either. That's fine. Dallas. That's like nothing better than the go beat Philly. Dallas plus 10 and a half. with the over of 30 and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And Philly's done, right? There's nothing for them to play for. I think it would be insane for them to play Jalen Hurts. I don't understand why they would do that at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I agree. All right, it's time. Million dollar picks. Part two, holiday week. We're already up $300,000. Plus, we have this Seahawks bet coming that we could win. All the Seahawks have to do is win on Thursday night and we're up another 155. Come on, Gino. Come on, Gino. Our big bet. We are doing an all LA parlay. The LA Rams to finish business against a cards team that is arrow pointing down.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Rams have been really good last six weeks. Rams just to beat the Cardinals. Just to beat them. That's it. Just all they have to do is win the game. parlayed with the LA Chargers in New England against my beloved New England Patriots, who are feisty but are incapable of playing well for three straight hours. Chargers Rams just have to win. Minus 114, house. Are we going big? We love LA.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I've somehow figured out a way to be more furious that the Pats won this game and knocked themselves out of a top five pick. I don't want the Pats to win anymore. Let's just get weapons. Let's finish in the top two. And then we can trade back for a team that needs a quarterback and get a lot of assets from my guy, Drake May. Please don't win this game, Pats. We're putting $250,000 on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Chargers, Rams, minus 114. We talked a lot about Bengals versus Denver and Cincinnati in the rain. Cincy minus three. Cincy with no good wins whatsoever. Cincy a team that just loves to shoot themselves in the foot. I'm going to take adjusted Broncos plus seven and a half. Oh, okay. And I'm going to put that with the Chargers and the Rams for 50K. That's plus 169, House. That's fine.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You want to be in business. You want to be in business with Bo Nix these nights. I'm not going to get away with that business. It's a Sean Payton, Denver. The secondary is good again. Like just a little sprinkle. Love it. Uh, two more that we like the Cowboys going against this Eagles team that Jalen hurts. We don't know what's happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The line is dropping as we're taping the pot on Thursday morning. Uh, the line dropped from nine and a half to six and a half for the Cowboys plus six and a half. We're going to bring them back up to Cowboys plus 10 and a half over 30 and a half minus one 15 hundred K. That's fine. I mean, if you want to do smaller, that's fine too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You know, you go around the league, like what if Sacramento wanted to make some crazy bid for him with DeRozan and Keegan Murray and a first round pick? Well, you know, do you want the Rosen's contract for the next couple of years after what we've seen from him this season? So you just look through the league and you can't find the trade. And I think that was the situation Miami was in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Let's just put 50K. All right, 50K on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Michael Parsons, the only guy with a podcast who's playing well. Only athlete podcast is actually succeeding at sports these days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, what would happen if Jerry formed a media company and then just paid $100 million for the Michael Parsons podcast? That would be an interesting idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Last one. Colts against the Giants. We both love the Colts. We do love the Colts. The Giants do not want to win football games anymore. They do not. They're good. They have told us. They're done. It's a wrap. It's a wrap. Colts first half game. They have to win the first half. They have to win the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Combined with the Vikings plus seven and a half, because we have to have some sort of scratch on this incredible Vikings Green Bay game that we argue about. You like Green Bay a little bit more. I like the Vikings a little bit more. The line has shifted. It was Vikings minus one half all week. As we're taping this, it's Green Bay minus one and a half.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Now we're going to grab those Viking points, bring them up to plus seven and a half. That is minus 113. I would like to put 100K on that if we could.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And then we also have this Dolphins game that we can completely stay away from. Dolphins against the Browns in the rain. Some Billy Zappy potential. Also two in bad weather. Dolphins need the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
probably a stay away i think it's a stay away okay i'm fine staying away from uh from the dolphins good so that's it and we should mention one of the reasons i like minnesota is because the nfl needs a very good week 18 sunday night game in minnesota detroit would do the trick collinsworth they'd have to hose him down well i can't wait to see him i haven't seen anything like this
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That is a stay away. I wish you the best. Thank you. Anyway. We are up 1.764 million for the season pending the Seahawks game. And hopefully the LA Parlay will take us over the 2 million mark. Those are the Holiday Edition Part 2 Million Dollar Picks for Week 17. House, I hope you ate a lot yesterday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Houston was the one team that made sense and it just didn't seem like they were interested in him. So I think Riley is trying to flip this. The narrative is so strong that something was going to happen. That he went the other way and he was like, no, he's going to be here the whole season. So now Jimmy knows he can't go anywhere.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I have a smash burger place for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I have an Indian food place for you. Ooh. I have some wrinkles for you for this trip. What a parlay. Can you do salads for the week before you get here? I'll try my best. You got to like really clear the intestines. I'll try my best.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I can't wait. How's great to see you. Happy belated Christmas. Happy holidays to all. This episode is brought to you by the White Lotus season three. One of my favorite shows, beautiful locations, twisted characters, unexpected scenarios. The White Lotus is going to Thailand. You know, I'm excited. I mean, we're doing prestige TV again, me, Mallory and Joanna Robinson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We're doing right after every show, putting a recap episode on the prestige TV, same luxury, new reservations for all of us. How are they going to make the show better? The answer is the show's great no matter where it is. I'm excited to be in a new country with our weird, mysterious, probably creepy White Lotus gang, but I love this show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And you can watch a new season of the Emmy Award-winning HBO original series, The White Lotus, premiering February 16th at 9 p.m. on Max. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Winning is a great feeling, but let's be honest, it's even better with a prize like Michelob Ultra Superior Light Beer. And that's exactly what you'll get with Play You for an Ultra on DoorDash.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You can challenge your friends to a game racer match and send the winner a Michelob Ultra because Superior is always worth playing for. Participate and play you for an ultra and send the winner an ultra through DoorDash today. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser-Busch McGlobe Ultra Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 or older to order alcohol.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Alcohol available only in select markets. All right. We are taping this the day after Christmas. It's an emotional time here on the BS pod. My daughter Zoe Simmons is here. We're doing the end of the year teen culture awards, which I think we've done every year for the last few years. We might have missed one. You've been doing this since, I don't know, you were 12, 13, something like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But this is the last year. You're 19. Next year, you're not a teenager.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, no awards for next year. Really appreciate this one the way you have it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
No, we'll call it the 20-something awards next year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And I feel like it retires itself at that point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You're hanging it up?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What's going to happen to you? Teen culture awards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Turn in a new leaf. This is it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So we call it the young woman awards? What do we call it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The young woman awards? I think not.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Young adult awards?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We'll see if it figures itself out next year. For now, this is looking like it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So if he could really just blow this up now, that's not great for him. That's going to make teams less excited to sign him this summer. It could veer the other way where now Jimmy's like, well, if I'm going to be here, I might as well make the best of it. He could start playing better. Other stuff might happen. There might be some teams, some star might get hurt. Some situation might go sideways.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Thanks for putting no thought into that. All right. So end of the year awards. We have a whole bunch of categories. I'm just going to set you up. Most important category every year is the TV show of the year. What was it this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This year we selected Tell Me Lies as my TV show for the year. Reason being, this is probably the most emotional a show has ever made me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Why?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because it kind of depicts perfectly like a super toxic college relationship. I think it struck a chord within a lot of people my age, especially as a college student. And the show actually casted people that look like the age that they're supposed to be playing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So that's a big thing for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
For me, that's the most important thing that a TV show can do. The people on the show have to look like the age that they're trying to play. That actually makes it a much more emotionally difficult situation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Like sex lives in college girls. I'm not sure those girls look like college girls. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I haven't even watched it yet because I've seen the cast and it's just like, this doesn't look like people that I'd be running into in my ethics class next week. Like this is not, these people are like the older people coming back to college trying to figure it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So what? So tell me lies. There's a lot of sex in it. Let's be honest. It's not a show I would watch with you. That's okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That's for sure. That's for sure. But with my girlfriends, my best friend from college, my roommate, we would sit there and wait for each episode to come out every week and watch it together with our like headphones individually and our computers and just like completely jaw on the floor every single time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Oh wait, cause you don't have a TV. We don't have a TV. So you press play at the same time?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We'd like sync it up. But it was, I mean, jaw-dropping every single episode. It just, it got so crazy. But the manipulation of the main character, Steven, that he does to his little girlfriend, Lucy, is like, he almost makes you think that you're crazy because of how good of a manipulator he is. But the show is incredible. And that was made true with, like, all the...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets, who have the most yards, tons of same game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
attention it got on TikTok and they actually renewed it after they were going to cancel it before it got all the attention.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It did get pretty much canceled. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So TikTok really saved this show this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Can you explain how TikTok saves a show? Because this is, and there's some other parts that we're going to talk about later with this, but TikTok taking a show either in a good way or a bad way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's weird because now that social media is such a prominent thing, even a shitty TV show can become super popular. Even a shitty song, like no matter what it is, if people will ban behind it, that's what makes a song or show successful. And I've been talking about it a lot with my friends and it feels like a lot of producers of TV shows and song makers or whatever it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They're trying to appeal to the social media eye rather than the critics or the other people that actually like establish whether a show or a music video is good enough. It's more about like if you get the TikTok people behind you, that will make you successful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I mean, it's definitely made the content that's being put out there worse.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because it's catered to all of these people that like have short attention spans or whatever it is. But this show caters exactly to people like me who found it through TikTok. I didn't even know about the show until I saw a little clip of it on TikTok and I binged through the whole thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And then Miami in the early February can go crazy. Listen, we didn't think we were going to trade him. We thought he was going to be here all year, but then this offer happened and they cover their bases. But Pat Riley. He's, you know, he's, I think he's late seventies, early eighties. Now it's like that old Seinfeld joke when old people are just like, fuck it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It checks a lot of Zoe boxes, including we go back and forth in the future and everybody's older and younger.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. I like a little, a little time sequence, but it's, the show is phenomenal. It was easily my, my top number one show this year. I think as a college student, it, that really was what hit home for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So that's great. So like when I was in college, 90210 hit home with all of us, which is a relative normal show. You're saying for your generation, a super toxic guy fucking with all these different people on the show. This is really resonating with your generation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That sort of thing is like never been depicted. And it also uses social media as a tactic of manipulation that the main character uses, which a lot of TV shows don't incorporate social media.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's kind of like a blacklisted, like you can't do it because that will take the characters out of the show, whatever. But people like me, we're always on our phones. Like it's not realistic to have a TV show that doesn't incorporate like the use of manipulative text messages or Snapchats or whatever it is. And like this show actually has that. Or non-texting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Or ghosting. Or being ghosted. So it's like this is the most realistic depiction of like a toxic college relationship, which is why I loved it so much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Do you think you like toxic relationship shows because all of your relationships have been non-toxic and pretty normal?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think so. It's like, oh, this is what it's like. But I know it hit home for a lot of people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right. So that's TV show of the year. Favorite content of the year. Do you want me to read the list and you can just go? Yeah, go ahead. So some of this has to do with shows you binged.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because you like binging shows. Right. You like either you're doing homework while a show's on. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I like white noise shows is how I'd put it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, number one is the Gilmore Girls, which you finally stumbled into. What was it about this show?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, I always I stayed away from it because I knew I would love it. I tried to start it a few different times and was kind of bored while watching it. But this year, again, my roommate was like, you need to watch this show. You will love it. So I sat myself down and I watched the first season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The first season wasn't the most interesting because Rory, the main character, was like a fresh high schooler. in New Haven, Connecticut. And I was like, what is this? This is not my jam at all. But then as the show continues on, it kind of just, it feels like a warm hug is how I describe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think a lot of Gilmore Girls lovers would describe the show as just like a warm, comforting, like when you're in need of feeling like you're around family or you just need your spirits uplifted, that's where you go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Mom-daughter show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Mom-daughter show. Which...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What would be your mom-daughter show? Ours would be a lot more realistic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The thing about Gilmore Girls is like it's supposed to be a perfect world. And Lorelai had Rory when she was like 16 years old. So there's a really short age gap between them, which makes their relationship more like sister to sister. But the show itself is incredible. It's definitely unrealistic, but it kept me interested for seven seasons. Didn't it stay too long, though?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The last two seasons were not great, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, I mean, some parts could have been cut out, but honestly, the last two seasons were my favorites because Roy was... in college going through college, which once again is my favorite form of TV show when the main character is going through college. And she was having boyfriends and all these different things and whatever. So I actually liked the show as it progressed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And they just start backing out of the driveway and they don't, uh, they don't care if somebody's coming back and out of the driveway. Here I come. Pat Riley's been at this point for a while. And it's really fun to watch somebody like that run an NBA team. He had obviously had it with these Butler trade rumors and, and just was like, you know what? There's no good trade for this guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But I loved Gilmore Girls just as something to fall back on when college days were getting hard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, one other binge watch show is This Is Us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't like when you watch shows that are sad because you assume the mood of whatever the show is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Which thank God you didn't assume the mood of Tell Me Lies. Right. But This Is Us, like it's an emotional journey. So you were kind of an emotional person as you watch this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, but this is different. I don't think it was a Grey's Anatomy COVID situation where I was just completely put out and unable to act every day. This show definitely hits the heartstrings, but in a good way. I loved this show. It kept me interested, and it was so unrealistic to the point where I almost wasn't emotionally affected by it because it's like, when would this ever happen ever?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. Okay. Yeah. Next one, the unfiltered podcast. This is one of your favorites. Basically unfiltered.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It was the merging of two different podcasts that I really like on Spotify. The unfiltered podcast is hosted by Zane Hijazi and Heath. They were like two of David Dobrik's best friends who kind of diverged and made a podcast. And then the other one was pretty basic, hosted by Remy Cruz and Alicia Marie. And they like joined forces and made this podcast all together. So that's what it is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But what do you like about it? You're not telling us anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, I was just explaining what it was.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, Remy Cruz has a salad that you pointed out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's a tuna bowl, a salmon bowl. But I've loved all of these YouTubers. It's like more of a nostalgic thing for me because I've watched them since I was like 13, ever since I started watching YouTube. And they join forces and they have a Patreon page, which I really love. And they'll go and do like they'll film a high episode or a mukbang episode or them like going to like on Halloween time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They went to the Halloween like scare fest, whatever. It's just like a really fun, airy, light podcast where it's kind of like girls versus boys and they'll do challenges and stuff. But it's just easy to watch. I like it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Video pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Video pod.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We Live in Time is the next one on the list. I don't even know what that one is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That was the movie that came out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Oh, the cancer movie?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Andrew Garfield and Florence Pugh. I loved this movie. I saw this like a month or two ago. Needless to say, I think mom will watch it like 15 times when she finds it. But it was great. I love Andrew Garfield. I love Florence Pugh. I love British accent. Everything about the movie was phenomenal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I tried to watch this movie with the two of you and left after like 40 minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. Which I don't know why, because it was also a cooking movie, which is like, that's everything that I need. Cancer, cooking, Andrew Garfield, British accent. I'm in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Wow. That's your algorithm. I skipped that one. Blink Twice, Channing Tatum.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This was great. Did you see this one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I did.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I really love this movie because I'm a big psychological thriller person. I prefer that much more than I do a slasher. Right. Like I love Get Out. I love all those types of movies. So this one I thought was phenomenal. And I love when a movie takes me on a vacation. This movie was on a great resort. Things kind of started to get weird. We didn't exactly know why. It kind of revealed itself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We're keeping him. Here's my statement. And it was old school and I kind of loved it. But this soap opera is probably not over, I'm guessing. Anyway, we are now throwing to me and Joe House talking basketball, million dollar picks, and I'll be wearing a different shirt. You can look forward to that. All right, we're taping this. It is 1030 Pacific time. Joe House is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Channing Tatum's gorgeous. It was a beautiful combo of things. I loved this movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Speaking of going on vacation, you did a White Lotus rewatch that you put on favorite content of the year, even though you'd already seen the show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
A hundred times. And I would watch it again and again. I think this is the single best TV show series ever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Ever? Okay, The Goat.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
To me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Granted, you've missed a lot of great TV shows. You didn't watch Sopranos. You didn't watch Mad Men, Breaking Bad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I said to me. I didn't say to anyone else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I'm just saying there's some meat on the bone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This is my number one. And re-watching it back, all of the little details and the things that I missed the first time I watched it, it's like, wow, this show is phenomenal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The Therapus podcast? Therapus. Therapus?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Therapus. This pod is great. I think this is a perfect example of like new upcoming podcasts that are kind of trying to take like the TikTok vibes and bringing it over to a podcast. This is hosted by Jake Shane, but he just brings on all of his celebrity friends like Sophia Richie, who I love. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
all sorts of different celebrities and he does this segment called the tell me what's wrongs and he'll have his fans send in like a bunch of things that have happened to them crazy things and then him and the celebrity will give them advice on how to deal with it and then they'll prescribe them with different things to like fix that situation but he's just so funny and light and airy i love his podcast i just i enjoy listening to it i like happy things
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
When you say the TikTok piece of it, so it's a lot of people like trying to self-diagnose, figure out what's wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yes. And it's like an interactive podcast where his fans are basically like the basis of the podcast. He's answering people's questions and giving them advice with a celebrity, which I think is super effective. And it's personable. Like when I listen to it, I feel like I'm his friend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
L.A.? Where is he taping that out of?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
L.A.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Okay. Waited for an invite from Jake from Therapus. Therapus or Therapus?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Therapus. Like octopus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Okay. The Idea of You. Another content of the year choice for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think mom watched it about 50 times over.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, should I have been concerned about that? That she was obsessed with the movie about a woman meeting a younger guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Anne Hathaway is phenomenal and she only gets more beautiful. And this movie, it had to happen and they executed it perfectly. Like it was about time that a movie like this came out where a celebrity falls in love with a hot mom whose life has fallen apart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I like that. So I happened to watch this one with mom and the ending was Kind of pushing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, it was pushing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Can we spoiler alert the ending? People have probably seen this. So they agree to break up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because, you know, she's, what, 15 years older and he's becoming a pop star. And basically they break up because it's screwing up her daughter. Right. Her daughter's having an issue with it. So she's like five years from now, my daughter's in college. Give me a call. It's like, all right. And then she's watching some TV show when he's on. He's like, I'm going to LA. It's five years later.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Of course, she's still single, even though she's gorgeous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. No guys can be seen for her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Just hanging out on a Thursday night, sees it. And then all of a sudden he shows up at the end and they have kind of a look.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And it's a happy ending.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Happy ending.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And then he gets to go through menopause and all the great old lady stages with her. Happy for both of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Interesting that the daughter piece in that movie, like a selfish mom making a decision to get involved with a celebrity and then ruining her daughter's life, which actually happens a lot in real life. So I liked it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's a stripped down BS podcast this week. You know, two pods this week. We did something for YouTube. We put some million dollar picks up there. A lot of sports yesterday during Christmas Day. How'd you handle the family... Christmas Day, how to consume sports while also pretending to be a family member part of Christmas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Your last one for favorite content of the year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I didn't realize you liked long legs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You guys love this. We saw this together in the theater. I was not as big of a fan, but you and Ben were. Yeah, I don't know why.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I saw it like four times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Did you really?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I did. I saw it four times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, you're a bad judge with movies because you have a movie theater like 50 yards from where you go to college. So you can just go at 10 o'clock.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But I thought this movie was really good. Out of all the horror movies that came out this year, this was my number one. Again, because I really don't like gore. I haven't even seen Smile 2 yet. I know you guys have seen it and I should see it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Smile 2 was good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But there's something unappealing about it to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You know why Smile 2 was good? Because the lead actress is great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. But it's like, that's just not my... Long Legs was much more my type of movie. I also like being on the side of the detectives.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I like kind of trying to figure it out with them. And I thought the girl that played the main character was phenomenal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And you liked Heretic too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Heretic, yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Heretic?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I love Hugh Grant. I think he's great. And seeing him in this sort of light was really interesting. It added a lot of depth to him as an actor.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So you like detectives chasing something creepy. Right. Something's wrong with the house. It's been a staple.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And the whole vibe of that movie was good too. Just the way it was filmed, like the lighting, every attention to detail hit the checkbox for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right. We're going to take a break and then come back with the rest of your awards. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Life's always changing. One season you're trying to break personal records and the next you're just looking for a solid routine. Peloton is here for all of it with workouts that flex to fit your schedule, whatever it looks like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear, especially, you know, I do a lot of walking. I walk around LA. I make calls. I listen to podcasts. Here are two words that will change everything. Viore clothing. A line of active wear that is unbelievable.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The best thing about Viore is you can lounge around in it. You can work out in it. You can go outside. You can go shopping down in your local wherever. And you never feel like you're either underdressed or overdressed. You're just comfortable. You can wear it when you're training, traveling, lounging around the house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Go get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. Here's the deal. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons. Once again, V-U-O-R-I.com slash Simmons. All right. So we're continuing the teen culture awards. Last year, we're ever doing this. My daughter turns 20 next year. New category show you'd most want to go on. What's the answer?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This was the Mystic Kitchen's last meal show, which I've binged every single episode, even of the celebrities that I don't care for. And I find it the most interesting thing that I've ever watched in my life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because you think about how weird your last meal would be where it's like cottage cheese, pickles, hummus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That, but it's like, it's such an intimate thing to find out about a celebrity. Like this is the last thing that you would eat. Like I was watching, I'm trying to think of a good episode that I really love. But I mean, every celebrity that goes on there, it's just like, what are you putting on your plate right now?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So you feel like compared to hot ones where it's just people like they're burning from chicken, right? Chicken wings. You want to know, you feel like this is a window into their actual personality.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's like, this is the last thing that you would put into your body on the planet. And I think the host, Josh, I don't know how to pronounce his last name. He's great too. He's really intelligent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What's your last meal then?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I wish I would have had more time to think about this one. I think a huge Caesar salad with some sort of chicken on it would absolutely be up there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But you'd have to have pickles.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. Pickles, cottage cheese, all the works, hummus, carrots. But that's like, am I really going to eat that on my last meal? I think I'd need a huge cheese board and a Caesar salad with chicken on it and a Diet Dr. Pepper and a milkshake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right. The last meal. I'll check that one out. Breakout stars for this year for you. Yeah. You had three people. Trinity Radman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I love her. I watched her on the Call Her Daddy podcast last week. Not only was that episode super moving, I just think she is so smart and so cool and so normal considering her entire situation. As for a celebrity, this is the one person where I'm like, wow, I could actually see myself being friends with her. She's so normal and cool and stylish. I really love her. I idolize her, honestly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And we really need her for the U.S. Women's World Cup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And she's a phenomenal soccer player on top of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
She's the best forward we've produced probably since Abby Wambach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
She's great. I truly love her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So what did you like about that episode? Just the way she talked about her dad or just like her perspective on fame? Like, what was it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't know. Yeah, I think that was a really tough topic for her to talk about. And she'd obviously never talked about it for a reason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. And even while having that really tough conversation, she still remained so classy. And like, even though she was airing everything out, she was never speaking poorly on him because she knew there was no point in doing that. So I just like appreciated the way that she approached that situation, the way she held herself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Like, I just think she's going to be, obviously she's already really successful, but she's going to continue to be super successful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I like her too. Next one is Sophia Richie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I love her. This is Lionel Richie's daughter.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So she's just a guest? What does she do? Does she have content?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
She has a TikTok. Her wedding was like the royal wedding last year. It was like there was so much stigma around it. And she looked beautiful and she's phenomenal. But she's an influencer type. I don't know how to categorize her. I don't want to because I don't specifically know her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What do you like about her? Is she funny? She's hilarious.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
She's like the most normal celebrity that similar to Trinity Rodman that I've ever witnessed. She's just so normal and down to earth. But I also really like her style and the way that she dresses and carries herself. I like to emulate the outfits that she does. She's like the epitome of an influencer to me, like how all the influencers should be.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Normal, normal people are coming back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. Normal people are, and she's funny.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Crazy, not, not as successful in 2024.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Graydon Cutler and Haley Batchelder. Yeah. Who are they?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Haley just joined the Call Her Daddy force or the Unwell content, but she has a new podcast on Spotify, which I really love called Extra Dirty. Extra Dirty?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What does that mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because it's like a sex podcast. It's kind of like how Alex Cooper used to be before she got married. Right. But I really like her. I think she's super funny. She started off in like short form videos on TikTok talking about like all of her quests out in New York City, the guys that she would meet, the things that she'd do, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Not great job by the games, but the broadcast was fine. And then NBA had a really good day. I was thinking, though, the Wembley Knicks game was so good. And I was just thinking big picture about, you know, there's been so much what's wrong with the NBA stuff. And some of it's founded, some of it's stuff we've been complaining about forever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
She's like not, I don't relate to her all that much, but I really like watching her content a lot. And Graydon's her best friend who's always making weird food combinations, which you know I love.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Okay. Storyline of the year, you went with the TikTok band.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I just thought this is so interesting because what's going to happen to all of these influencers? I really don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You mean if TikTok goes away in like April?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. It's like all of these people that have given up their jobs and have been making their livelihood by making TikTok videos. Now what happens to them? Like, I genuinely don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Instagram Reels?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I guess so. But like, I'm never even on Instagram Reels like that. Yeah. I like Instagram Reels, but like TikTok is, it's so, it's such a well-oiled machine. Like it really reels you in. And now that there's this whole TikTok shop thing, which is Amazon equivalent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I can see how it's so detrimental to little kids because all of these videos will be promoting things that you can buy on TikTok shop. You'll literally watch the video and you can click on the thing at the bottom and you're purchasing something all of a sudden. So it's definitely an evil thing. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But I'm most curious to see what will happen to all of these influencers and people that have devoted their lives to making TikTok videos that are no longer going to have any job.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I'm good with TikTok going away. Favorite developments. You mentioned Patreon earlier. So you're talking about like special Patreon only. I love Patreon. Like this special content.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This really feeds into like the secrecy feeling like you're friends with your favorite influencer. Obviously, I have to pay $10 a month or whatever to have the Patreons of the people that I'm subscribed to. But it's so interesting because it's almost like a whirlpool into what old YouTube looked like before all of the monetizations and whatever were put in place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's like you can really just lay it all out with no care at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Okay. So you're saying I should start a Patreon?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't know if I want to see whatever you do on Patreon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Thank you. Spotify video is another one you were talking about. You like when Spotify, which is good because we're tripling down on this, but you like either watching or listening to a podcast depending on where you are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, I think it's a great advancement and it's really helpful to see the person that's talking space. Like that's just something that I connect their words so much better with whoever they are by watching the video. And I'll just put it up on the treadmill if I'm working out or if I'm in the car, I won't watch the video. But like, I like that you have the option.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think that's a really good advancement.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right. Well, you're going to keep getting it. Most fascinating trend. So two things here. You have the last days of original influencer content. What does that mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And then some of it is real issues, which is basically how do you find these under 30 American stars that people are going to give a shit about? Like they care about Steph and LeBron. And yet the Steph LeBron thing last night was the solution and the problem at the same time. Yeah. Because it was the same thing for the Olympics too, right? It was awesome watching those guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think we were talking about the canceled podcast when we... Well, so we can... The canceled podcast is the other piece of that. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So you're talking about there's the end of some sort of era that people don't even know is an era.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
People know. It's like the YouTube Vine era of like all of the way that old social media used to be, the way that influencers used to behave. It was like so much more raw and like upfront and people were openly crazy about And Tana Mongeau is like the face of that when I think of old YouTube because she's just like the epitome of she's been everywhere and done everything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Similar with Trisha Paytas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So people beefing, getting canceled, coming back. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's like the cockroach syndrome where it's like you can just be openly crazy and there was really no problem with it. And you'd get canceled and you'd come back and it would just be a continuous loophole where now cancel culture is like you're canceled forever. For whatever it might be. And you're done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But the canceled podcast, similar to its name, it really was like the last era of that. It felt like because Brooke Schofield and Tana Mongeau would like air out all of this shit that happened, all these crazy stories of living in L.A., going out in Hollywood, whatever it was. And now Tana's in a happy relationship. So is Brooke.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And they just kind of are diverging into like this regular influencer, whatever the new
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
spotify world so do you have to basically not be in a healthy relationship to be a good podcaster apparently so or just to be an interesting influencer because i asked you what would happen if alex cooper just got divorced and you got super excited you're like whoa if she started dating again that would be amazing well that was her her whole bag all of her podcasts and stories were about like having random hookups and running around new york city and like being a degenerate and whatever
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And now she's happy and super successful. And I'm so happy for her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But her content definitely reflects that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. She's doing more interview stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And I love like her story about hooking up with the Red Sox guy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And like her story about her times in Paris. Like all of when she does the old stories about everything that used to happen to her. I was like, wow, this is good content like this. I miss this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Next category is couple I want to break up because I'm jealous. Couple I hope they break up, I guess. You're not literally hoping for a breakup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
No, but I'm just jealous. I wish I could be Olivia Jade. She's dating Jacob Elordi, but she never talks about it, which is really interesting to me. You're dating one of the hottest guys on earth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And he's tall, which you love.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right, and Australian. And he's not in any of her content. She's still alive. I love her YouTube videos. I'm a big fan of Olivia Jade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Interesting. Big comeback for Olivia.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, she's also a good influencer where she just keeps it classy. She's not too crazy. I really like her content a lot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And a hell of a rower.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. Okay. But I do like her a lot and I'm jealous of her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Grossest internet moment of the year. We had the, you had the Sydney Sweeney body shaming stuff from a couple weeks ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't want to say like grossest, like I was grossed out, like grossest, like wow, society is really horrific.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, that's what I meant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, this was awful. Because I saw TikTok videos alluding to it, but not the pictures, just being like, wow, what happened to Sydney Sweeney, like all this stuff. And I was expecting to see something horrible. And she just looks completely normal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Hey, the old guys, look at it. They still got it. But it's still coming at the expense of everybody else. Like even yesterday, it's in that eight o'clock. It's in the best spot. It's after football's over. And that's the signature game. And it's basically two 500 teams. And it's guys that have been in the league since 2003 and 2009, respectively. And yet OKC wasn't on Christmas Day.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And she's filming a movie about a female boxer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, she's like actually putting some muscle on. Like she looks similar to how like most females look. And I was just like, this is ridiculous that in this day and age with all this cancellation stuff, people will still talk like that. I found that super disheartening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What did you think of her post refuting all the, or did you see the post she did?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You know, I've always been a big fan of her. I think she's wonderful in White Lotus and I love Euphoria. And her straying away from the character that she usually plays is an interesting thing to me. I'm excited to see the movie. I thought that her response definitely made me like her a lot more.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. Well, two people you didn't really like. Feud of the year. Although I guess you're on the Blake Lively side. Blake Lively versus Justin Baldoni. So this was a big thing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This situation is gnarly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This has been like a nine-month story on social media, and now it blew up again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, there's been lots of back and forth because originally when the movie was being promoted, Blake Lively was kind of promoting the show up in your florals to the movie, and Justin Baldoni was taking more of the domestic violence awareness side.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But they also weren't promoting it together. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And people were really criticizing Blake for being insensitive of the entire intention behind the movie. But it turns out that there was some reasoning behind it. I think the situation is horrible. And looking at the intimate details of it, it's really, really weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So I know all the mainstream journalism media angles reporting on it. What is the TikTok Instagram version?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, people have been saying that he...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
was being very strange during all of their sexual scenes yeah and even the girl that played the younger version of blake lively he was making really crude comments about her sex scenes with the younger character that was supposed to play atlas yeah um and on top of that he like walked in on her in her trailer this is all legend we should mention multiple times yeah a legend
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Um, but like a lot of really disgusting sentiments came out of this, just like really uncomfortable, seemingly like minor versions of, um, sexual abuse, but it's really.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, the fact that she had that meeting and put all that stuff in there, like from now on, we will no longer, you will no longer add kissing scenes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And people are really trying to turn it on Blake Lively at the beginning. Like Blake Lively is an asshole and she's like mean to reporters and everyone was turning on her. But it seems like there was a lot more to the situation. It's really sad.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What's your generation's relationship with Blake Lively?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
For a second there, people weren't liking her, but I think she's she's widely loved because of Gossip Girl and all of the movies that she's done. I mean, I like her.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
She's a friend of Taylor Swift. I think she's in good shape.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, but I don't I don't know. She's not within my area.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right, we're going to be delicate with this next one. By the way, mom's take on Justin Baldoni was, I never liked his face.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, I don't like his either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That was it. He played the role that he played a little too well. 2025 career advice is the next category. Right. And I just have in the notes, dangerous Disney. You don't like when the Disney stars hit this phase when they get older and then they have to prove how dangerous they are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, it just seems like this is a common thing that happens between Sabrina Carpenter and Olivia Rodrigo and all of these really popular Disney influencers that are now trying to desensitize themselves and escape from the Disney world.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. By being super provocative. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And like in a lot of ways it works and I support it. But then there's times where it's just like this feels like it's kind of over the top, like you're trying to prove something here. And sometimes it's like feeding into that Disney thing is is not always a bad thing. I just think that sometimes it's a little too trying to get out of the box.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Giannis wasn't on Christmas Day. Wemby was buried at the beginning of the day. And this is like, you're kind of doing this to yourself. But at the same time, I get it because Stefan LeBron was awesome. So I don't really know what the answer is. It's like you could go glass half full, glass half empty on it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Do you think Zendaya did that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
No, I think she played her cards perfectly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, I think she's the role model, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Because she's super sexy. Like, I think she's beautiful. But she was a Disney star for a long time. And she kind of like shifted over to being who she is now from who she was then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
What helps that she's an awesome actress. Right. And got an iconic TV show. And did a lot of movies and stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. But that's the way to do it. Like, that's the poster way to do that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't know what the answer is, but I have written down makeup tip of the year. I don't even know if we came up with this one. You don't have one? All right. We'll move on to the next one. College food and drink weird budget MVPs. All right. This is stuff when you're in college, you're racing around, especially like you, you're playing sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You have only like 30 minutes to eat, 20 minutes to eat, 10 minutes to grab something. I have a bunch of food here. So what do you want to start?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I want to start off by saying Starbucks saved my life.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The dining hall usually closed before soccer practice would be over. And there were countless times where the Starbucks next door to me would provide my meals. I think I ate strictly Starbucks for probably two months straight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So you support the Starbucks. I support Starbucks. So you have, I wrote down Starbucks egg bites.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yes, absolutely.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Spinach feta wrap.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yes, yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And matcha latte was a big one for you this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I love a matcha latte. I'm obviously a college student and I need as much energy as I can get. Yeah. And coffee, sometimes I'm just not in the mood for it. And matcha actually gives me the caffeine boost that I need without the comedown. Because sometimes from coffee, I'll get tired a few hours after having it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Matcha makes my entire body feel fantastic. And it's a good, healthy energy boost because it's green tea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
In that Starbucks that's next to your dorm, there's probably, what, 10, 11 people that work there? How many of them knew who you were?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Oh, we're friends. I have a friend every morning that I say hello to. It's wonderful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But the fact that the Steph LeBron game was so good and sucked up so much oxygen from the day is actually kind of part of the problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Chompsticks?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Oh, yes. Chompsticks. I'll put hummus on them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Can you explain what chompsticks are? Because most people don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's a meat stick. I guarantee you most people know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's like a long meat stick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, it's a jerky, but it's made out of turkey. And it's delicious. Me and mom were on the ski mountain the other day and she was appalled because I was putting mustard on my chomp sticks. But chomp sticks, I don't regret it one bit. Chomp sticks are my MVP in 2023.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So that would have been, that's the answer to the question. Weirdest thing I did with my food in 2024, putting mustard in a public place on chopsticks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Or like the pickles dipped in the cottage cheese with the hummus. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. That was the last MVP was hummus, pickles, and cottage cheese.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
So you would just walk to this Trader Joe's in Boston. buy a bunch of weird food and then cram them into a small college refrigerator.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Into my little fridge. And no one would touch that fridge in my suite. They all knew. They open it up and it's like, this is a crime scene.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, there's like, is there any pizza in there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, that's why I'm like a good, good as a roommate because no one wants to eat my stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Like even if anyone was trying to eat my things, no one would want to.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Last category. Advice to my younger self as an athlete and future strong woman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Oh, future strong woman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't know. I was projecting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You're projecting?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Things you learned now that you're 19 and a half, things you wish you could have told yourself at age 12, 13, 14.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Sure. Well, I think on a relationships standpoint, because that was partially what I was thinking of when we wrote this down. And this is advice that I give to my friends a lot of the times. In a relationship, you have just as much power as the other person and succumbing to like whatever they want at all times is super unhealthy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And I think that that's definitely something that I've learned over the years, just like not folding over. I've definitely become a lot more feisty since I've gotten to college. I think in middle school, as you know, a lot of people like walk all over me because I am a nice person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And I would like allow that to happen. But standing up for yourself is something obviously that you learn with age.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's been nice to have you home when we taught you how to be bullied again. But me and mom just telling you what to do and yelling at you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Exactly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's good. Complaining about you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. As a soccer forefront or just sports in general, I think you cannot continue on if you don't love it. That's something that I have learned to be true. I've gone through injury last year where I thought I might have to quit. There's been lots of times in my life where it's like I don't want to miss any more birthday parties or any more friend playdates.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I feel like I'm losing friends, like I don't want to do this sport anymore. And pushing through that and knowing that you have the love to push through the sacrifices is the most important thing. You won't make it if you don't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, you know, that's interesting because I think that's the number one thing I learned as a parent too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
That if the kid doesn't love it, there's nothing you can do as a parent.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You can't make someone love something. You'll burn them out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Like I've seen it. You had two real injuries and each time you could have said, I don't want to play anymore and it's not worth it. But each time you really wanted to keep playing and you fought to get back and healthy, which you did again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Recently. But I've seen other people or they're...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, I've seen it happen time and time again where it's like people I've played with that are dying for it to be over. Yeah. Because it's like they either feel like they were forced to do it or like they were doing it for somebody else. And in part, I'll always play for you because I know how much you love to watch me play. But I mostly play because of how much I love it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And if I didn't love it, I would not be able to do it for as long as I have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. And you're playing. I mean, you're in a more physical position, too. So it's not like your body's pretty banged up by the end of the season if you're playing big minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right. But I think that also feeds into like the giving yourself the right nutrients and like being a healthy person in general. Because there's a lot of like, I don't know, on TikTok especially, it's like what I eat in a day as a fat person is literally like all over my For You page. Like there's a lot of people promoting really unhealthy eating or like what I eat in a day as a skinny person.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Like these are literal headlines of videos that I've watched. Like this lady Liv Schmidt who was canceled all year because she was underweight and like kind of
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
promoting an unhealthy eating style it seems like she's like adapted a more healthy eating style but with social media and with tiktok there's a lot of promotion of the way that people eat and it's it's not anything like we've ever had before because social media was never so big so it's also making people think about food right more than maybe they would Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It's like it becomes people's entire universes. And I've definitely dealt with that. And as an athlete, it's important to give yourself the right nutrients. I think that's important, too. That's what I've learned.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
The more time we have with social media, I do wonder if... it reemphasizes things that are potential problems anyway.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Like food or if you think you have some sort of hang up or something wrong.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, yeah. It's like people self-diagnose themselves all the time. People change. And it's hard because when you feel like you're in a really tough place and you don't know what's wrong with you and then you see somebody else that might be having similar symptoms to you and you finally feel like you're being heard or like you found the solution. Yeah. that's a really gratifying feeling.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But in the end of the day, it's probably not what you have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And it's like people go down this rabbit hole and social media was not something that we were intended to have as human beings. And it's like, you have all of this insight on people's lives that you would never cross paths with otherwise. So it like creates a really weird
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
universe for a lot of people like me where it's like i'll be seeing all these food videos or all of these like whatever sorts of videos that i i normally wouldn't ever see or pay attention to so it's just weird well one other thing you learned in 2024 is you could be a good nurse I could nurse. Yeah, I could.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Honestly, I think your boyfriend hurt his leg and was in a cast for six weeks and you had to take care of him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But you did a good job. It seems like you did a decent job.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I tried my best, but that's, yeah, that's something I had to learn. Rolling someone around in a wheelchair is not as easy as it looks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You finally got to be in a Grey's Anatomy episode.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I know. I almost pushed him into traffic a few times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right. Anything else before we go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't think so.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Happy New Year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Happy New Year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Good to see you. That was it for Teen Culture. I guess we'll have to come up with another name if we do this again.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. We'll fix it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You turn 20 in the beginning of May.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I don't know what we'll call it at that point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah, we'll figure it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right. Good to see you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Bye.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Joe House. Thanks to my daughter, Zoe Simmons. Can't believe I was able to book her. Thanks to Saruti and thanks to Kyle. Thanks to you guys for listening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, who wouldn't? Curry looked great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, you say this is the journey we're on, though. I still go back, and I talked about this a couple weeks ago, but the Olympics are a chance to showcase some of the younger guys and give them some new memories that they can... they can make a foundation of our experience with them as superstars. And yet those moments went to the old guys. Christmas still going to the old guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
And I just think they're stuck in the middle. I remember when we were in college in the early 90s, This transition felt a lot more organic to the MJ, Barkley, Hakeem, Drexler, all the Stockton and Malone, Sean Kemp GP. It just felt like it was organically shifting generations. It doesn't feel as organic this time around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
We got it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Well, Wemby, I was talking about this with Van and a couple other people on text this week. Wemby has two things going against him that historically has not been great for somebody really captivating the American public. One, he's tall. Tall people in our lifetime, it's never really totally worked. It's hard to identify with centers. You know, it's why Shaq Shaq's a one of one. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But even Shaq, we were there in the nineties. Shaq was pretty polarizing in the nineties, right? People were, well, he was a huge superstar. He put up huge stats, but it took a while. Charismatic. I mean, he was, but it took a while. I really feel like it was the three at Lakers titles. Yeah. that was like, all right, Shaq's arrived.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But remember there was like the 96 Olympics, like some of the movies he did, some of the rap albums, like the Lakers underachieved. I know, but did you feel like he was the most popular guy in the league? I didn't. Like it was MJ's league and then MJ retired and we were like, who's going to be next? And I don't think anyone thought the answer was Shaq.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
But that the point is Shaq. So Shaq's probably become the closest, but it's usually a perimeter guy. Sure. That becomes, that's why I like that AJ DeBansa. Anyway, the, the Wemby thing, he's got that and he's got the foreign thing, which is another huge thing. You know, we've never really seen a foreign guy captivate this country. We can see worldwide it might be great. Who is the most popular?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Who would you say is the most popular? We've had some great ones. I mean, you're the historian. Well, Hakeem, I think, was the best historian. foreign player of all time, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Sure. Dirk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Right there. Giannis is in there. Jokic.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah. None of them are face of the leagues. Jokic right now is on the best offensive heater this decade of anyone in a long time. And nobody, I mean, part of that is he's not Mr. Personable, but, um, Yeah, it'll be interesting to see with Wemby. We've just never seen it. We've watched a lot of centers come into the league since we've loved this league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Walton was probably that one, and we were kids when that happened, but when Walton and the Blazers, that felt like he was the face of the league for a year, but Kareem never resonated. We watched Ewing come in. It just kind of never happened for him. He also wasn't amazingly fun to watch. Samson had a blip. And then it just wasn't going to happen with him. And you go on and on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
It just centers are tough. Dwight Howard.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
I think the thing that'll tilt it for Wemby is if he keeps just having crazy games like the one yesterday. He's going to just have these 40.10 block. Like he's in the playoffs and... You know, he's putting up like 40, 15. If it's just stuff we've never seen before, that might actually work. But it's going to take a while. Needs to be on that national stage. You know, we had them as...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
Did you go under for them before the year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Pepsod Complete. We all know that one of the best parts of game day is the food. On Sundays, Nephi Kyle comes over. Sometimes we'll get healthy. We'll get some salads. Sometimes we'll get a little ambitious. We'll get some sandwiches. It's always the best part of my food week. Well, until heartburn strikes, then it's not as great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They're an 11 seed... but they're 15 and 15 in a really hard conference. And there's a feistiness. They play defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
They have a guy who's not afraid of whoever the other team star is. And I'm prepared to chalk that up to a loss, that San Antonio thing. I think they'll get over 35. And they also, there's trade possibilities with them too. You know, I mean, there was a lot of the Darren Fox stuff started last weekend. It really should have started a month ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons
You know, he's this year, he's a free agent after next year. The team feels like the DeRozan thing just, it's not happening. They started thinking of Fox and the Fox stuff is so much more enticing. for teams like Houston and San Antonio than Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler's 35. He's been unhappy the whole year. Fox is a different animal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold Michelob Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them. So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens. People come over, they want a beer.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I could have told you he was going to be boring.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You can find all of it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. This Monday coming up, we are going to do a Christmas movie. We did Home Alone 2. It was with Kyle Brandt. It was the first time we'd ever done a podcast together in the same room. So that part was fun. But this is, we had a blast doing this one. So that's coming on Monday. You'll be able to watch that actually on Spotify.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It's just not fun. So I'm thinking like with the cup, what this ties into another thing that makes me mad is they're so afraid of football. to the point they take inside the NBA, which is just the Thursday show. On Thursday nights, I watch the NBA and they're like, we have to move it away from football. Football's eating our lunch. They move it to Tuesdays. Doesn't feel the same.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They have this NBA cup. They decide the semifinals are going to be Saturday because it's the one day we can kind of get away with not going against football. And then they keep everybody there for three fucking days because they don't want to go against a Monday night doubleheader, which by the way, was Minnesota against Chicago and Kirk Cousins' corpse against the shitty Raiders team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It's like, why are you afraid of that for? Maybe go try to beat them head to head. But they're doing all this stuff where they're just retreating and they're so scared of the NFL. And meanwhile, it's like, maybe you should try to throw some counter punches. Like, the NFL is going to beat you either way. Like, even the WNBA, which we thought it was all crazy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The WNBA playoffs are going head to head against the NFL. Guess what? They did okay. They had fans. Like, people had... They had their own fan base and people... Watch that shit. So, House, why are they so scared? I just feel like when you operate from fear, you're going to lose every single time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
That's what makes the most sense. Yeah, you're talking 70-game schedule instead of starting near the end of October. you're starting maybe like third week in November, you're easing into it. And then you really kick into gear and Christmas. Cause one of the things I was thinking with the cup was you made the point earlier, the games are, the games are all really fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The courts are fun, but we've only had four games in this super complicated scoring system trying to lead to, Oh, and then these four teams made it. And this team didn't make it because their point differential was plus 36. How about this? Have more fucking games. Like instead of four NBA cups, let's have six, let's have seven, let's get it so that it goes all the way through.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And you can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And we just launched a Ringer TV YouTube channel that's got the Watch app. It has the Prestige TV pod, has a bunch of fun Hall of Fame stuff and like direct to video stuff that we did. That's where we did the Landman thing last week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And then we get to January and then the week to do it. In my opinion, there's that week between the conference title game and the super bowl. It's a dead week. Nothing's happening. Football has finally calmed down basically starting Sunday night and just try to own that week. Right. You have like you basically have a clean slate. You're going against nothing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You're going against you're not going against college football. You're not going against anything and make that the signature week. They're going the opposite way. Not only do they wrap up all this stuff, but the trade deadline is on the Thursday of Super Bowl week. That's another one I don't get. The trade deadline is one of the most fun days of the season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You're just burying it in the Superbowl when all your media members, all your corporate, everybody is just talking football, football, football. So I just, to me, there's, this is just easy structural stuff I don't get.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Or would you? Because maybe Atlanta is one of the best teams in the East. Maybe you would get Atlanta.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Well, House, I mean, we go so far back. We remember when like USA and ESPN started showing cable games, right? We were like... Oh, it was amazing. All the teams. Oh, my God. That's what a Clippers arena looks like. You just you had no idea. And then the SportsCenter highlights are taking off at the same time. We were just so starved for any sort of NBA action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Now it's flipped the other way where, you know, it's like having the most full fridge possible. I was telling somebody the other day. I feel like I watch as much basketball as I ever did, but I watch it completely differently now. I don't care if I see the ESPN game on Wednesday night as it's happening. But what I do is I try to watch as many fourth quarters as I can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Or if like I'll I'll look at the game recap and I'll be like, oh, Houston did had a 37 to 10 run in the second quarter on Wembley. I'm like, all right, I'm going to watch that and I'll just queue it up. And it's so much more on demand. And House, I don't feel like that reflects in the ratings. So when they say the ratings are down, I'm not positive I believe it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So please go subscribe to that as well. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where we've been doing these 30 on 30 profit boost tokens every Friday. I've been boosting 30 point scores for you. If they get to 30 points and you bet it, you get boosted. I tweet out my picks on Friday and I did really well the first three weeks. Last week was not well, but it was weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I do think that they have a star issue, which I talked about Tuesday. House and I didn't miss Michael Jordan in the 90s when he played a playoff game. It was non-negotiable. You didn't miss Jordan in the playoffs period. Unless like you had a substantial event that superseded it. Otherwise you watch Jordan. They don't have a guy like that now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Well, Wise watches every Hawks game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So when we get expansion, it's like a 62 game schedule.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So I sign up for that. Everyone I've ever mentioned that who's in any sort of decision-making ownership, they're all like, Don't even talk about that on a podcast. It will never, ever happen. It's too much money. There's no way. And it's like, you guys already made all this money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
This is my favorite Woz take.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It was one of those weeks where there wasn't a lot of scoring. So be sure to claim the PBT, place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30. on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Coming up, gonna talk to House and Big Waz about the NBA Cup. Big picture, did this work? How can we fix it? What should it look like next year? So we did that. And why has the NFL cast such a shadow over the NBA?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Like I say, you're saying like national games, you get your own team. Like if you live like house in Washington, he gets to still watch the Wizards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
But maybe you get to pick like three other teams and then if you want the whole package, it's like $1,000. And it's just like completely prohibitive. There's some idea there that make it I'm not against that house. Or maybe they're just... That's it. You get your own team. You can pick three other league pass teams. Other than that, just enjoy that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Sergeant was. He's laying down the law.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I think he's right. I remember we did the Juice WRLD doc for HBO and Max. And it was just like, it just got pirated out of control. And that was the first time I was like, oh, wow, this still was happening on like a major level. But you're right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Especially as we head to this next era where you're going to need Amazon, you're going to need Peacock, you're going to need cable to get ESPN or whatever the ESPN package is. And you'll have to pay for the week pass stuff too. I mean, it's our job. So we get all this stuff, but yeah, it's, I've said it a thousand, hundred times. The schedule is the number one way to fix this. And they won't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They just won't. It would make it more special. The guys would be playing. They'd be healthier. Even what they did recently with this weird bye week where there were no games and stuff. It actually made me miss the NBA. I was like, last night, where the fuck is the NBA?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
76, maybe it should be 60. This is the issue, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It makes me mad. Anyway, we talked about that too. Then House stayed for million dollar picks. Then Peter Schrager came on to talk about dysfunction with the Jets, the weird Christmas schedule, and all the strange coaching stuff that might be happening pretty soon. It is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, it's 2 p.m. Pacific time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You're right, it's beyond the franchise. Sportico did this thing in the franchise values, which I always think are corny because there's no real way to know. It only takes one dumb person to be like, here's 11 billion. But they had the pie chart of how the Celtics... I think it was Sportico. Maybe it was somebody else.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They had a pie chart of all the Celtics' revenue because they don't own their own arena. And they had it earmarked for the Celtics making $102 million from the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Assuming they made, you know, got to like four rounds. And you could see it was like, Jesus Christ, that's a... crazy amount of money. But I, you know, that's part of why some of these bigger market teams, they go all in on luxury tax because they feel like it's almost like a bet. You know, can we make that money back the longer the rounds go?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I, if, if they put me in charge, I would at least go to 70 games. I mean, you could talk me into the 60 would be even better 62, but they won't. This is something Steve Kerr has been Steve Kerr at one point. I think he like hand wrote a long letter to Adam Silver, like in the last year, like it, like it was like the 1840s. Like he's dear Adam, it is Steve Kerr.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I'm here on the, on the outskirts of Wyoming writing a letter with a feather and a pen. Um, but he wrote a letter, like just like basically begging him to cut the schedule down. And I remember talking to doc about this last year when he got back in and he was trying to take over the box and, And he was just like, we just don't practice. Like, I just got here. Our staff's changed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
He's like, we still get to practice and I don't get to play as much golf. But he was saying, and this is something any coach I've ever talked to, they always talk about this. There's these schedule bumps.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
where you just can't work on anything and you end up like in a hotel conference room in some banquet room running through like how you're going to do, how you're going to charge the guy with the ball and shit like that. So I don't know. All right. So short term, Vegas next year for this or no was?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So maybe the answer, if they strung it out to six games instead of four, they moved it to January, and they really, this is going to be a direct contradiction of what I said about not being wusses about going against football, but you target that week between the conference championship and the Super Bowl, which we know is open every week. We know when it is. So this year would be February 2nd.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
How about Tuesday's the quarterfinals? Then we go to Vegas Friday, Sunday, the week before the Super Bowl. And it's just Friday night doubleheader. Sunday's the final. Everyone just goes to Vegas one weekend. You're in Thursday or Friday morning. You're out Monday. You're not going against football at all.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You have six games instead of four to determine exactly, you know, you're going to get the right order probably of the teams in some form. You might have one outlier. And the only thing we would know for sure is that the Washington Wizards won't be there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Two more in January after Christmas that lead up to the quarterfinals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It can't be, it can't like really be, you know, Emirates airlines could fucking get private jets for everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, the PJs for the fans. Oh, the party plane. Not the money. OKC party plane. Did we lay it on this for a fix? Six instead of four. Target that weekend before the Super Bowl weekend. And maybe have the trade deadline right after on like the Tuesday.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or, I've never tried one of these. I've heard you talked about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious. There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket. Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra. a superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The Nuggets can't even trade for Jimmy Butler, who would probably be dying to go there. And they can't do it with the fucking apron. It's like, well, Zeke Nagy has to be in it. And please don't look at Michael Porter's back x-rays. And we have no pics. Yeah, it's really sad. All right, Woz. Great to see you. Who's winning the title, by the way?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Joe House is here because we're going to do Million Dollar Picks in a little bit. Big Waz is here. He was just in Las Vegas for the NBA Cup. Is it still going or is it finally over?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I think, unfortunately for them, I think OKC might be their kryptonite team. That's the one team that just too much speed athleticism. I guess what they have going for them is just Jalen Williams and any game that means anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They're going to be in your mentions, Bill. Oh, Lord have mercy. Just have one awesome game when there's a real spotlight on. Come on. Who are you talking about? Jalen Williams. Jalen Williams. Yeah, right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
He stunk in the Dallas series last year. He stunk in the second NBA. I just, I have a lot of Jalen William stock. I'd like for him to come through. I mean, the other reason they lost, they just couldn't hit a three, which is now happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You think he's going to be all right? Yeah. I have OKC Dallas. I still feel like I want to see what happens with the Butler trade because see, Butler's clearly, this is happening soon. And if Houston got him without, changing too much what I like about them, I'm intrigued by them too. House, can you imagine Imei
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And Jimmy Butler, how fucking alpha that team's going to be if they keep doing Brooks. They're like a biker gang.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And E-May looked at LeBron and called him a bitch and asked him what he was going to do. That happened last year. Put him and Jimmy Butler? I just think that's happening imminently. So we'll see where he goes. All right, Waz, great to see you. Later, y'all. Come back with million-dollar picks. Sometimes in basketball, 30 points can be worth more than 30 points.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Right now, you can get a 30% profit boost. from the ringer with fan duels, 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. We've been doing this for the last few weeks with America's number one sports book, a 30% profit boost. I'm going to either pick a player to score more than 30 points or better on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets line. Like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You can bet on both teams to score 30 plus points in the first quarter if you wanted to. Look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sports app or head to fanduel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout on Friday. I'll be tweeting out my picks on Friday. Had a great first three weeks. Didn't do well last week, but hopefully we'll make a little bit of a comeback. It's really fun to bet these.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Don't miss your chance to find out how much more 30 can be worth. with FanDuel's 30 on 30. Must be 21 plus in present and select states or 18 plus in present and DC. Opt-in required, bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Oh, is that what happened? Yeah. So walk us through the Vegas piece of this and whether it's a good idea, because I really I really want us the three of us to help the NBA. I think the NBA needs help in a bunch of different ways with their scheduling and some of their idea generation. But what what worked for you in Vegas and what didn't work for you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. All right, house. Week 16 is here. We had a rough week 15. First time I got my ass kicked by a weekend in a while. Lost $510,000 for million dollar picks, but we're still up for $1.254 million. And I like a lot of the stuff this week. The only thing that really changed for me last week, and I was just wrong, like Pittsburgh, Philly, whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Like some of the losses, like whatever. I just had the wrong side. I get it. Seattle Green Bay, I had way wrong. I thought like this is the time Seattle is going to show everybody that they might actually be like a little sleepery. And instead, Green Bay absolutely kicked their ass.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And Green Bay, I almost wish I had gone into that game thinking one of these two teams is going to emerge as the NFC sleeper. I was shocked by how they got their ass kicked. What did you think of that game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Green Bay, Seattle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Buffalo, Detroit. That was another one. Right. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Tampa Chargers. I stayed away from that. Thank God. Yeah. The Seattle defense. They had done Arizona twice and the Jets and the Niners when they were banged up. And it made us kind of threw us off a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah. So when I was going through the games this week, you know. look, if I'm going to lose a week, I'm going to go back to the drawing board. I'm going to get back in the lab, try to figure out how I can get better. And I was really looking back, really trying to go over some of the numbers versus the schedule and who played.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And so like we have these Saturday games, Texans, Chiefs, Mahomes isn't playing. Texans are favored by two and a half. Mahomes comes back. It seems like now it's Chiefs by three and a half in Houston. And the numbers would say, hey, watch out for Houston in this game. They have the number one defense in DBOA. They're going to be able to really pressure the Chiefs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They just haven't played enough good teams. And they haven't looked good in the games they've played. And I'm just looking at this going, are the Chiefs really going to... They're really just going to lose in Houston to this Houston team that can't seem like they can stay out of its own way offensively, that can't really block...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And definitely unquestionably has a good defense, but I don't want to say they're the good, bad team, but they're kind of one level above that, but below the Chiefs, Ravens, Bills level. You know what I mean?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The other thing that worries me about it is Just when the team also then has to play on Wednesday, I just don't know what that does. We talked about this a little last week. I don't know what that does mentally for how you have an edge for that game, any of that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And yet I don't want to stay away from the other Saturday game because I think we see it the same. The Ravens minus six and a half Steelers. I want to, there's a lot of like stuff with Lamar and watch out at the Steelers on him. And I think without Pickens, I just, I just don't see the Steelers getting there. You would have to be,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
almost the greatest hits of bad Raven Steelers games from a Baltimore perspective, miss field goals, Lamar doing something dumb, the, the tipped interception, all kinds of stupid shit, the 50 yard pass interference that the Steelers gets, give them a new drive. And as we, we stayed with, we stayed at the craps table with the Steelers, I think one way too long last week. Yeah. They're 10 and four.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I think if they're 10 and five, that's fine. Um,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, but they're still making the playoffs. Yes, they are. And Baltimore lost them already. So if you're taking Pittsburgh, you're saying we're almost taking their touchdown underdog. On top of it, they would be beating Baltimore twice in the same season. They'd Baltimore be nine and six after this. So they wouldn't, you know, they'd be like a six or seven. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I just think the Ravens win. And I don't, I don't want to lay the points. I just want to take their money line and put it with stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They got their asses kicked last week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah. All right. So we're marking down Ravens' money line. Ravens' money line. That's the way to play it. So I have newsflash for you. I want to do either all money lines or adjusted underdog lines this week and tie them with a couple games. But let's hit the games really quick. Eagles minus three and a half against Washington. This is another one where I think I just like the money line.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I just want to grab the Eagles money line and put it with something else. I don't trust the hook. I don't 100% trust this Eagles team. And I bet in this situation before, as have you, where you bet the Eagles and Jalen Hurts just has a super weird game and has some weird injury that they're not sure how much he's hurt and he's throwing a triple coverage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. This comes down to two things. Other than the Philly being way better than Washington. They have the best running attack in the league. Your team is 28th against the run. Washington is the third best running attack in the league. Philly's number one against the run. Your team hasn't looked really that good in six, seven weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And you've been calling it out week after week, talking about like, yeah, the schedule's catching up to these guys a little bit. They were overachieving early. It's starting to come back to earth. I just don't think they're in the same ballpark as Philly. I don't trust the hook. I don't trust the cheap TD. I'd rather do Philly Moneyline. Anything make you nervous?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They're playing for a one seed. It's not like they're like, oh, I don't know. Should we try this week? Like they were trying to get a bye week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You just got to win the Atlanta game or the Dallas game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Those are the two games. Although, taking Kirk Cousins' corpse out of there, you're probably sad to see him go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
No, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Yeah, Kyle's going to have to bleep that. Viking Seahawks in Seattle. And this isn't a reactionary. Seattle sucked last week. So I want to now go against them again because we really try not to do that. If anything, that's like the worst thing you can do. We try. I am a petty better. Yeah, me too. And Seattle, I'll be honest.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Seattle hurt my feelings last week. I was wounded.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
This buddy is gone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Bye-bye. It was, it started like four, one o'clock West Coast time by 1.30. I was like, all right, cross that off. Yeah. So I just think this is a horrible matchup for them. I don't like the matchup at all. Minnesota's defense, Minnesota's ability to throw to either receiver, have explosive plays, mix the running game in. And I also think Minnesota's good. And the line is Vikings by two.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I think this is Vikings are a top five team. Seattle's we learned last week is somewhere in the middle. And this is just bad luck. They played Green Bay and the Vikings back to back at home. And those games are just really hard. And I think the Seahawks are going to lose.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Or like injured Gino doesn't sound great to me either. I don't even like 100% healthy Gino that much.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Metcalf got hurt and just hasn't looked the same. Lockett, I guess, is at like a different point in his career. I'm not sure what happened to him. Kenneth Walker got hurt. So now it's like just one running back. And then, you know, JSN's been their awesome receiver. But that's only going to take you so far. All right. So we agree. We'll take the Vikings are minus three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And I don't care because we're going to use the money line for them, too. Yeah, fine. Great. Uh, so a pass on the Raiders pass on the lions. I looked at long and hard at Rams jets for the jet side, uh, I thought when it was three and a half, the Jets have actually been playing pretty well lately. Yeah. I don't trust the Rams. A lot of momentum behind them going west coast to east coast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
But I just don't want to bet on the Jets, especially with all the dysfunction this week that I'm going to talk about later with Peter Schrager. This athletic story that came out. And Garrett Wilson today gives a quote later in the afternoon about, do you think you'll be with the Jets last year? He's like, honestly, I don't know. There's a dysfunction... smell from them that I don't like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So I feel like that's a stay away. But what's not a stay away for me is another dysfunctiony team. The 49ers in Miami.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
49ers plus one and a half. Which one is the dysfunctiony team?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The Niners, I feel like probably should be favored in this game. As weird as their season's been. Adjust it on FanDuel to plus four and a half. I think we can get a little frisky with some people I want to put them with. But just fundamentally, Niners plus four and a half. Does that sound appealing to you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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San Francisco first half game is plus 165. I'm just mentioning that. Let's see. So minus... The odds just aren't great for those. It's unfandled minus 112 for the minus 2.5. They don't. Well, they... The Christian's going to get mad at you now. I know, we just can't get any value. Yeah, well, they know. That's like a smart move to bend it. So they want to keep you. So the money line is plus 106.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Plus 106. So it moved a little bit. It moves a tiny bit, but not enough to me. You're just better off doing the plus 106. But I can also offer you plus four and a half at minus 215 that we could put with Usyk. One of the many things I want to put with Usyk.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
That's what I was thinking. Well, I was going to do this later, but let's just say that Niner's plus four and a half with Usyk is plus 141.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, he's like minus 145 range. Okay. All right. Well, we'll come back to them. We both like the Niners. I really like the Bengals, but I refuse. I'm just not doing it. I'm just not. I don't trust them. Great instinct. Just stay away. Good luck today. I know they have a chance to make the playoffs depending on what happens with Denver tonight.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They are a leg in as a money line. Well, that was my question. Do we do Bengals money line? I just don't trust their defense. Oh, you can't trust it. It's the quarterback now. I don't know what that's going to look like. Oh, I have an idea. I have a suspicion. Cards minus four and a half in Carolina. I watched the cards pretty closely against the Pats. They're not very good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I don't like that's ridiculous Bucks Cowboys another stay away with that Bucks defense and then the two big ones for me the Bills to beat the Patriots and the Packers to beat the Saints on Monday night no Camara Rattler's gonna put I think I wanted to vote week 16 to just that being in every bet that we have. Both of them are minus 1100 on FanDuel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And could we use those teams together as swing bets with other money lines that we like?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Pats, home for the Bills, are getting 14 and a half. DeBundo today on The Ringer and his excellent gaming column recommended the Pats plus 14, cold weather, blah, blah, blah. I just don't see any scenario, like Barmore got scratched. I don't see any scenario where the Patriots beat the Bills. Like, none. All they've been doing all week is talking about the coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And then Packers-Saints, Monday night, Packers still playing for stuff. Saints, I don't know what they're playing for, but you got to watch them firsthand last week. Did they impress you in any way? No, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
All right, so going back to where we were before, Bill's money line, Packer's money line is the anchor. We're using the anchor strategy this week. Love it. Put that with the Vikings money line, minus 104. Okay, that's a nice even money play. Put that with the Eagles money line, minus 120. Fine. You put that with Usyk, minus 104. Yep, see? We're doing it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And we laid out the main strategy on Tuesday about Usyk, why it just... Just all in on him. We could also use Usyk as an anchor with the Ravens money line. Ravens money line Usyk plus 121. Niners plus four and a half with Usyk plus 141. Jets plus 7.5 and Usyk plus 128. My bad. Ravens, Bunny, and Usyk was plus 121. So all of those are plus, and now we just get to move that shit around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I'm going to take the Jets off for reasons we discussed, but we do have the other two. Can't do the Jets. So Niners plus 4.5, Usyk plus 141. And then the Ravens money line, maybe that's the move. And I think that's it. We just use anchors of Usyk, undefeated, the best boxer of the last few years. And then Bill's Packers money line parlay. And we just go. I mean, this is great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I don't know. I, I've already bet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It's like, queue it up, make the case for the Bengals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
That's an incredible wildcard weekend. Buffalo, Cincinnati. That's our Saturday night Amazon game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Cincinnati with Usyk. Minus 102. Great. Great. Great. All right, so we're putting a lot on Usyk. Jesus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
How's the finals watching on TV? It reminded me not a little of the bubble. Oh, interesting. Where the crowd was like blacked out. I couldn't really tell if the audio was bad or if people were just in a coma. I couldn't tell how many people were there. And Giannis was just killing it. Obviously, he killed it the whole time he was there. But It just something about it doesn't work.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I'm on the record. Usyk and Pereira in the UFC. I'm just betting them every time they decide to do combat until they lose. I'm doing the blackjack. I'm stacking my bets on those two guys. And it's been working for multiple years. Okay. Usyk hasn't lost ever. And he's been so much fun to bet on. This would be the wipeout. Million dollar picks. Week 16. We are up $1.254 million.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Coming off a bad week where we learned some lessons. Looked in the mirror a couple times. Don't take bad offenses. Explain the anchor strategy to the audience one more time, House.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So you don't get a lot of value, but... On Fandle, you get some value.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So we're using two anchors. The first one are the Buffalo Bills just to beat New England in New England and the Green Bay Packers just to beat the Saints. two of the worst teams right now. The Pats are one of the four worst teams. Saints are one of the 10 worst teams. Putting those two money lines together with the Vikings, with their money lines. So the Vikings are minus three in Seattle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And we're just going to something about the minus three. We're just going to take the, let's just take the money line on it. Take the money line. Sam Darnold's due to throw a pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
We're just covered. Just win the game, Minnesota. So that's minus one Oh four. No offense to Seattle. We still have a bunch of bets with them. Nice little hedge against our bets too, though. That's right. And then the other one is the Eagles money line, which if you put with the Bills and the Packers, the Eagles just to beat Washington, they're minus three and a half point favorites.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You put those three together, minus 120. So we're going to put 200K down on those two events. 200K on each bet. Next one, the Ravens money line on Saturday against Pittsburgh. This will probably be a weird, ugly, strange game. The weather's going to be freezing cold. Bad weather. It's a Derrick Henry game. We don't like the Ravens minus six and a half. Just the money line.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
We're putting that with Alexander Usyk, who hasn't lost in his life, as a parlay. Plus 121. Excellent. Excellent. We're going to put 200K on that. Niners. Niners. Plus four and a half adjusted in Miami. We get to bet against Tua again. What's more fun than betting against Tua and the DJ, Mike McDaniel? It's great. Niners adjusted plus four and a half with Usyk is plus 141. We'll put 150 on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Put a little less.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Fair enough. And then Bengals money line with Usyk. That's minus 102. Bengals just to beat the Browns and whoever the hell is on their team this week. No Nick Chubb. They're on their third quarterback. I don't know if they're trying to tank. I do don't know. They had their first round pick. What do you want to put on that one? 200 or 100? 100's enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, we'll do a little 100K just for fun because it's Sunday and there's no games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I'm sure it works if you're there, if you work for the league, if you're in the teams is like, this is great. We're all here. But I feel like there's a better idea. So where'd you stand just on the semis and the finals?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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The anchor strategy. You don't want to put Chiefs plus three and a half in this? Chiefs plus three and a half. With Usyk?
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All right, I just looked it up when we're doing this house. Chiefs adjusted to plus four and a half with Usyk to win. Plus 112.
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I kind of believe in that little redheaded former assassin, Carson Wentz, to be good for one game and to try to get himself like a three-year, $50 million contract as next year's Baker Mayfield with somebody.
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No way. I'd actually be excited if he played. All right. That's our last one. Chiefs plus four and a half with you, Sick. 100K on that. Those are the Million Dollar Picks. for week 16. So you did a fairway rolling end of the year awards with our guy, Nate?
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Did you give the Hawk to a here's my Bitcoin? I'm going to take all your money award or was that that wasn't handed out?
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Well, how about the new live commissioner is the brother of somebody who is our favorite basketball player we ever played with at Holy Cross.
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It's a great guy. Tremendous. We really, really love playing with his brother. He's got to be retired at this point. Who, Sean O? Yeah. There's no way he's still playing in his mid-50s. It was so great to just see him and be like, oh, man, let's get on Sean's team. Let's get on Sean's team. Nice little bounce passes on the break. Great stuff. All right, House. Happy gambling.
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We will see you, I think, next year. We'll be here next week for Million Dollar Picks. Fingers crossed. All right, we're taping this. It is 2.30 Pacific time. Peter Schrager is in our New York Spotify ringer studios looking super snazzy. This is the most professional we've felt in a while. Really weird stretch of the schedule right now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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We have two Saturday games with teams that are also all going to be playing on Wednesday. Do you think the league will ever do anything like this again? Is this a one-time thing?
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Well, and then you have, it works out for the Broncos because he's like, yeah, yeah, fuck it. Let's go. We'll go right in. And meanwhile, the charges are all banged up. Yeah. So you're giving them three less days to heal, which I thought probably was an unintended consequence. Yeah. Over and over again, it just seems like everything's working out great for the Bills.
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This is, I don't know how they pulled it off. But the KC, the whole Mahomes goes down. Then Netflix is worried about their Wednesday game. But then Mahomes, I heard Raheem say this on the Rear Gambling Show today, where Mahomes is like LeBron, where he gets these injuries and it seems like he's going to be out for six weeks. And then he's fine two days later. He's just one of those guys.
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Well, you know why we know he's going to play? Because the line moved six points.
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There's one other stake beyond the one seed and all that stuff. It's Mahomes kind of lost his spot in line this season. And now he's turned into this, well, when the playoffs come, he's going to turn it on. But I think just from an entertainment standpoint and from... honestly, a ceiling standpoint. Allen and Lamar Jackson have just been better. Even Burrow's been more fun to watch.
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And Mahomes is just grinding these games out. It always looks like he has seven injuries. And he's having one of those seasons you have when you're 37, but he's still in his 20s. And he's played a lot more games than probably some other quarterbacks the last few years. And the weapons have been in and out. The tackle situation has been dicey. I get it. But it's just interesting.
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I just think Allen and Lamar have blown him out of the water during this regular season. But you also feel like we're going to get to the playoffs and Mahomes is probably going to yank it back.
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So I did a thing on Sunday with Sal about the year Allen's having and how actually it's a bad sign for Buffalo Super Bowl hopes when you have these teams with the awesome quarterback having the MVP year combined with a defense that can't really stop anybody. The signs are bad.
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Yeah, I went through it just in general. But then this week, Aaron Schatz had a tweet. What's he got? About... Basically, in the last 30 years, 11 teams went 9-5 and then made the Super Bowl. And the reason he did it was because for DVOA, which has been an essential part of kind of studying falling football most of the century, the Ravens are 9-5.
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They're shoved aside a little bit right now, I think, especially as Buffalo's gotten the thing, but... 11 out of 30 teams have made the Superbowl and some good teams like 2016 Atlanta was nine and five, the 2002 Raiders, you can go on down the line, 2023 Casey last year.
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And I don't know the fact that they're number one in DVO way and not being talked about, they have this Pittsburgh game coming up this weekend. Um, there's six and a half point favorites against Tomlin and the Steelers when Lamar has struggled against them, you know, for his whole career basically. But, um, I do wonder if they're starting to get a little sleepy.
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Like I was looking at their, their title odds, their AFC odds, and maybe they're the undervalued team. Cause everyone's on green day now in the AFC. That was, I was a week late on that one. Maybe it's Baltimore and the AFC. What are your Baltimore thoughts?
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Going against the guy who now has the Justin Tucker championship belt.
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Chris Boswell headed for 200 fantasy points. Yeah, so Baltimore's first in offense. Pittsburgh's seventh in defense for DVOA. And yet Pittsburgh got their asses kicked by Philly last week. And I thought it was a more alarming game than a usual loss because they lost in ways that I wasn't
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I just weren't on my bingo card, like them just getting manhandled, them giving up a 22-play drive to basically finish the game. But if you're a Steelers fan, you look at it and you go, well, we got screwed on that penalty where there was clear video after of the guy. They're just like punching our guy. Darnell Washington, yeah. And then they're driving down.
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It seems like they're going to maybe tie the game and Najee fumbles. And it's like, yeah, we're a little closer there than you thought. I thought they got pushed around and manhandled and beaten up. And now they're heading into these next two games, Saturday, Wednesday. This just feels like this all flipped at the worst possible time. What are your Pittsburgh feelings?
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Yeah. Part of me wonders, and I've been riding them the whole time. Part of me wonders if they outkick their coverage a little bit this season, just in general, you look back at some of the games they won, some of the schedule stuff.
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Their most impressive win was probably that first Baltimore game just for really pulling it out and seeming, but that it just shouldn't matter this much that George Pickens is hurt. I like George Pickens. he's their biggest threat though.
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I know, but it just, it shouldn't be just an absolute deal breaker to be able to, you know, cause then they're running the ball all the time, but they're running it for three yards of carry. Cause everyone knows they have to run the ball. Let me like, cause my, my thought is like, I wonder if this is a Lamar, a Lamar, oh, I can't beat Pittsburgh. No doubt. Here we go. And he looks great.
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Pittsburgh loses again. And it's like, holy shit, Pittsburgh's in a... I'm trying to think of whatever narrative comes out of that game. And that feels like a likely narrative to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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On FanDuel right now, Allen's 9-1, basically. He's a 9-1 favorite. And Lamar is plus 650. And that feels out of whack to me because Lamar having an awesome game against Pittsburgh. And then what you said, everything else he's doing is going to be major games. Josh is going to be on my top right multi-view for the Pats-Bills game, and that's about it. He's just going to be in witness protection.
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With all that said, there is another scenario where Lamar sucks against Pittsburgh again, and Pittsburgh wins 18-16, and Justin Tucker misses a couple field goals. The whole thing. Speaking of awards, I wanted to ask you this. Yeah. I hate when people do interviews and they say, I wanted to ask you this. I should just ask you. My bad. I'm still trying to get better at this.
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Coach of the year. Ooh. Do you know who the favorite is? Have you looked at this?
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So he is. He's the only one with minus odds. He's minus 190. Dan Campbell dropped a little bit because his entire team got hurt, apparently, last fall.
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I guess the pregame speeches only go so far. Sean Payton, six to one. Dan Quinn, 10 to one. Tomlin, 15 to one. McDermott, 30 to one. And then you have to press the see rest of the bets link. to go on FanDuel to go to Sean McDermott 30-1, Sirianni, Bowles.
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There's Andy Reid at 35-1.
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I just don't understand that.
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We are underestimating it because he's the 10th best odds on Fandle right now. And apparently nobody's betting on him.
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You think like, All the weapons they lost, the fact that they had the bullseye on them all year, all the close games they played that they had to pull out. I think he would be my number two choice. I actually think what O'Connell's been doing on Minnesota, that team is so well coached and so well prepared.
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Salvaging Darnold and turning him into a guy that's now probably a $30 to $35 million a year guy in the open market.
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Yeah, he also said a few fourth quarter like they need to drive through.
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Yeah, they are the one seed. They would have all the tiebreakers. I mean, Detroit probably needs that one seed more than any team has needed a one seed in a while. I don't know how much it's going to help. I might be off Detroit right now. I don't know, man. Would you say that somebody had the graphic of all the people on IR by each team? Detroit had 22 guys. I have it here. Detroit had 22.
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Then the next team was the Browns at 18. Yeah. And the Dolphins and Giants at 15. So the Lions had basically, if you go to like the fifth most IR team, they have almost, you know, 60% more than like the fourth place. I've never seen anything like it. I don't even know. I know you have some Lions connections. Do they even have an explanation for how they can have this many injuries?
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No, it's heartbreaking. Do you look at the training staff and go, are we doing something wrong?
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That was when I closed the door on my Lions one seed bet.
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They could basically do the Buffalo where they just outscore everybody. But what really made them special was that Montgomery-Gibbs combo. I know. It was a top three running back situation anyone had. Now they don't have it. I know.
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the Pats had a year like that where like Troy Brown was playing Nickelback and just, it just felt like everything was going wrong the whole year and they still almost made the Superbowl, but they had the Brady Belichick infrastructure. It's a little different. Jared Goff was never won a Superbowl and Campbell was never, you know,
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But we've seen teams, the Colts had years where it just felt like their defense had passed the point of no return and they were somehow in the AFC title game. I'm not willing to rule them out, but I got to say the Montgomery thing, that was the one that made me go, because their defense sucked anyway. They were going to have to win, like Buffalo's going to have to win.
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Yeah, but you know what's been lost though? I think if they're healthy, I really do think they win the Super Bowl and they're the best team. I think starting the year for whatever their talent was in this situation and the guys at the points of the careers they're at, I think they had the best team.
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Well, that's why I care about this as a topic because fundamentally the premise behind the tournament works because the games are more fun to watch. So you start there. You said something that I think is a bad sign for the league and maybe ties into the stuff I did on Tuesday on my pod.
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And I think that's why it feels so wide open now because sometimes you just... Remember there was that year, the year Brady got hurt, 08. Yeah. When all of a sudden we just ended up with that weird Pittsburgh-Arizona Super Bowl. It's like, what the fuck is this?
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Don't you feel like something weird like that could happen this year? I'm prepared for like any Super Bowl matchup, right?
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Yeah, could they just score 37 on the road against whoever?
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If you're just saying talent now for who's left, It seems like the Eagles have the most talent in either conference, just all sides of the ball. If you're just going to do a ranking of grading all the players. And yet I don't even think the Eagles fans, even the Eagles fans have like their guard up with it. And there's always seems to be some weird stories popping out and chemistry stuff.
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And so part of me wonders, is that a red herring? And then the other part of me wonders like every time there's smoke like that, it never turns out well for the team. So I don't know what to think of them either. They would have to be the team that if gone to your head, you would pick, but I don't feel good about it.
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Oklahoma City is the best team in the West, and they have Shea, who's the fourth best player in the world or the fifth best player in the world, depending on what your rankings are. Giannis is the second best player in the world, maybe the first best player if you want to have the Yoko Giannis conversation. I don't want to do that here.
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Yeah. Even watching the Eagles, it doesn't seem like a team that's having like the most unbelievable time ever together. And I don't know. You notice different vibes from different teams. Maybe they'll come together. I wouldn't rule it out. But you did make me think of something. And maybe it's like two weeks too early to figure this out.
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But who is the best candidate for the nobody believes in us team in the playoffs? Because that Eagles team is a great example that 2017 Wentz goes down. Everyone writes them off. Oh, they're done. And then they it's it's the it's the force that has been kind of the most dominant playoff force year after year after year. Is it Detroit? Does Detroit have the best nobody believes in us case?
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We don't even believe in them anymore.
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The thing with them is they're the, no, no, fuck you. Nobody should believe in you guys. You guys are barely winning every game. I saw you losing the Jets on a Thursday night in person. No, it's your fault. You can't even score 20 points. You can't block. I would say KC last year was a good example of this when they lost that Raiders game. People were like, I'm out. I'm out.
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They're not going to do it again.
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And I thought they used that to their advantage.
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And he's playing out of his mind, and it's the most fun version of him that he's been in a game. So on paper, it's a great matchup, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee. And yet you laid out like, oh, it's too bad the Knicks weren't in there. It's too bad the Warriors aren't in there. Maybe that's just what the league is.
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Yeah, because I think Pittsburgh is maybe entering the waiting room for this combo, especially if they lost to Baltimore this week. They're like, all right, we're done. They're out. Fun run. I can't believe you won 10 games. You guys are out. Watts hurt now. And then Tomlin feeds off that. But yeah, I would say Detroit has to be the odds on favor for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Maybe Tampa too, with just not being considered at all. And Tampa's had some good wins. Their offense is excellent. Like they're over 400 points already, you know, and they dropped 40 in the chargers and
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You know who didn't write them off? Me and Sal, because they were in such a bad division. Nobody is allowed to be, even Carolina, you could barely write off. Is seven wins going to be our champ in this division?
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Yeah, we're getting that. It's under 30. We're getting that. The, uh, the panics cousins thing was coming for a while. And I knew when they did that mile an hour stat for cousins, it was 36 miles an hour. It was just, you could, you could see it the way they called the game with the Raiders where they just weren't going to let him do anything. Is there any way to spin this?
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Like if like, let's say I'm Arthur blank. How are you spinning this to me? That is it, is it like, Hey, look, this is why we had to invest in Pennix. Like these are assets. If you go one for two, it's a win. Like what, what do you say to Arthur Blank at this point?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Why not get that Raider game? I don't understand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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And even when I was going back and trying to figure out all the unicorn situations that have happened over the years, Almost every time it's somebody in a big market, right? It's Magic and Bird, Boston, LA. It's Michael Jordan in Chicago. It's Kobe and Shaq in LA. It's Curry and the Warriors happening in San Francisco, in the Bay Area.
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Yeah, it's weird because week one, he looked like that. And then everybody took the Eagles in week two, which is now looking back, one of the weird results of the season. The game's over. Somehow they don't. And then also Natalina has the bomb. Saquon dropped the pass. Yeah. And then it comes flying back down the other way. And it's like, Kurt's back. And it turned out he wasn't back, but.
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Look, we've seen teams get out of these giant, awful cap hit things. Russell Wilson, Denver, you know, takes a huge hit with him. And they're somehow going to be like a 10-win team this year. So it's not awful. I'm, to me, more interested. Like, this makes the season more fun now that we get Pennix. You suddenly get this new guy. With all these weapons. And it's like, what if this guy's good?
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Because, you know, they have a chance to maybe, you know, it's not a puncher's chance to maybe catch Tampa if Tampa has a dumb loss.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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I want to talk about the... No, I want to talk about the Jets after that because there was a crazy article there. So big athletic article today about the Jets and the ownership and the Suns and EA ratings and Jerry Judy. This became an immediate everybody texting everybody the same thing. It's on every NFL team's Reddit. It's it just became one of the stories of the year.
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A lot of anecdotal stuff that I think had been floating around, plus some new information. And guess what? The TLDR was like, hey, the Jets are super dysfunctional, which we knew already. But I think what I didn't realize was how kind of medley... Woody Johnson is. And people had always said when he was doing the ambassador thing, it was nice. Woody's out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
But then when he came back, that's when it got a little crazy again. So in retrospect, both of us were bullish on the Jets. You were even more bullish than I was. But this team was so dysfunctional. It's not like we didn't know they were dysfunctional. So what made any of us think that this team was going to suddenly become functional? And is there any way out of this with this owner?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The only real time where we had a marquee kind of thing was LeBron in Miami and Cleveland. And LeBron almost became like his own franchise to some degree because he became so big. But house.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Which is always the most dangerous thing for a piece like this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Just structurally, if we put this, if we put the semifinals in New York and either you had both games at MSG or you had one game at Barclays and the other game at MSG and it had to be, you could hustle back and forth and potentially get both. And then you had the finals two days later at MSG. And now we have celebrities. Now it's way easier for people to come in and out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And Wickersham and I talked about this last week because I genuinely think one of the reasons Belichick went to college was he was like, it's not the right franchise situation with the right kind of ownership. There's no meddling son of the owner, anybody kind of messing with me. I probably don't want to do it anyway, right? So after I put that pod up, some different people reached out to me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And a friend of mine was saying, you should do something on your pod about the difference between NBA owners and NFL owners. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So that's the thing. He was saying like, what's different about NFL owners versus NBA owners? NFL owners, they own these big, giant, billion dollar companies. They're in a suite. They're detached from the fans. They get to do what they want. They'll put their son in charge here. They'll do whatever. But there's still a sense of detachment. Whereas NBA owners, they're in the crowd.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They're with the game. They're kind of in the mix for... And the type of people that have been buying NBA teams aren't like these NFL, like just these super rich families passing down the team to different generations. The NBA, a lot of the owners they have are people that...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
either came up with the money themselves because they were rich or they thought outside the box or they were some family that bought in or there's somebody like that Matt Ishbia who's like the self-made guy who's like, I know how to do everything. And it's like all over the place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
But the point is, there's so many of these jet situations in the NFL and I don't feel like there's the same in the NBA. There's different levels of owner incompetence in the NBA, but it's somehow... a different lane than NFL incompetence. The Jets have been like this for 15 years, right? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Now there's like vibe and energy and we're playing it in the most famous basketball arena we have. Isn't that just better?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, season tickets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, I go to a couple of board meetings and that's it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
This was figured out in the NBA over the course of the last 20 years because these groups would buy franchises, but really like one guy was in charge and you would have these people putting in real money and they're like, fuck, I'm not in charge of anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I think the newer owners that buy teams like that and have minority groups, they're strategically picked to bring one value thing to the whole equation that they kind of need, whoever it is, whether it's somebody who's forward-facing, somebody who's really smart, somebody who might know how to build a new arena. I think when I look at some of the NBA stuff,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The family that operates the most like an NFL team, like the dysfunctional generation-by-generation NFL team that just... is the Lakers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
That's the team where the dad had the team really from the 70s on. He passed it down to his kids. They'll never get rid of it. They don't have the kind of crazy money to, you know, like basically their money comes through the team. That's it, from the Lakers. But there's like 10 NFL teams that operate like the Lakers do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I think the Giants are like that, even though I know people speak highly of the Maras. The Giants have been one of the most dysfunctional franchises for over a decade now, and they don't seem like they have a plan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It's a multi-billion dollar company, but then the other, some, some of the people that have come in the last decade, ShotKon, Tepper, Tepper, Haslam, Haslam, the, uh, and then the Washington, Josh Harris. Yeah. Yep. Um, which is like the new kind of modern owner where they're buying these franchises. But it's just part of a bigger portfolio for them, right? Totally.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It's not like you're not living or dying with the success of the team. Who is the NFL owner that was like sitting on the bench like Cuban was with the Mavs forever, right? Arthur Blank. Arthur Blank was the guy, to be honest. One of the biggest companies in the world. And then he just shows up and he'll come down the sidelines. But...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Uh, it's just, it's funny how the stakes somehow seem lower for the football owners because just owning a team in this league that is like one of the best businesses in the world.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They're 100% not selling the team. Even Snyder, who they were, they're basically trying to set his franchise on fire and he wouldn't sell the team. What are some good examples of how it should work that aren't just like the Steelers passing a franchise down? Like to me, it seems like the Cronkies with the Rams just realizing like, hey, we have a good front office and a great coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Let's just trust these guys. That seems how it should work on paper.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
He's the positive upside of a legacy kid. I would say you'd point to him as like, that's a success story of a legacy kid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
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Yeah. Cause it seems like all of these guys have the son who, or in Jerry Jones's case, the daughter that everybody likes Charlotte, who everybody thinks is good, but everyone has the son for the most part. And then if you ask other people, um, I'm talking NBA, NFL, whatever. Like, so what's the sun like? And it could go one of three ways. They could be like, oh, he's good. He's really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Like, it's almost like surprising. Or they'll be like, you know, he's pretty sharp, I guess.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Well, then there's the third one where it's like, what's the sun like? And they go. You know. And then you're like, oh, it must be a disaster. Yeah. This guy must be the absolute fucking worst.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Entertainment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Well, where it gets dangerous is like the Jaguars where Shad Khan, who owns a bunch of stuff and he's just got an incredible amount of money and they've spent money in the arena. Football team's a mess. The son's kind of running the team, but he's also running AW full-time. And a soccer team. And the soccer team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And if you're Belichick, and even if that was a job that was, you thought, oh, if I wait a month, maybe they'll just give me the car keys. It's like, what is that job? I have a weird ownership situation. I'm in Jacksonville, Florida, and I have no idea if my quarterback will ever be good. And those will be my mid-70s.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The more I think about it, I actually really like that North Carolina job for him because college jobs these days... unless you're in a perfect NFL situation, like I think Carbot Chargers, that's like a perfect situation. Totally. Right. Or the Broncos.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
We need you, Sean Payton. Here are the car keys. And I just don't think that situation is there for anybody. Like if you're, if you're Vrabel now, and I think Vrabel is the best candidate of all these guys. If you're Vrabel, what's the situation where you're like, oh, oh, that's a no brainer. I got to do that. Is it even Cincinnati?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
But that's my question. What's the job this year?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You're basically waiting for the Pat's job. If you're waiting an extra year, you're like, this Pat's thing's going to go badly. I'm just going to wait until it falls apart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Well, that's because Kraft hired the guy five years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
But that leads to the second part of the question is, is December the right time to have the NBA Cup?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I don't think it was a slap in the face that they didn't give him a look. I think the Mayo thing had been done for a couple of years. So that was one of my questions for you, actually, to do a little coach watch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Because we have Jet Saints Bears open.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Watching the last three weeks of the season. Peterson, I'm guessing that's a wrap in Jacksonville, right? Yes, I would think. So there's four spots. Dayball seems like he's coming back. And my guess is they'll give him one more year and then they'll hire new people for the front office and that's how that plays out. But maybe they won't hang.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
That's a big talking point right now with the Pats fans. Because if you really are completely all out on Mayo... And I was 100% out. And then a couple of the players stuck up for him this week. So now I'm like, all right, I'll give it one more week. But Drake May stuck up for him. Dietrich West stuck up for him. But he's been just awful.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I think he said four times this year in the preseason where he said something that everybody's like, wait, what just happened? And then the next day he had to clarify something I said yesterday. Yeah. And I don't know how many more of those he gets. The Arizona game was alarming, but they got Buffalo this week. They got Buffalo in the last week, which might actually mean something for Buffalo.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
So to me, Mayo's on the coach watch list, even though I don't think Kraft will fire him after a year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
But the thing is, that's fine that they don't want to admit a mistake and maybe he deserves a second year. The difference is, Vrabel... I just think Vrabel is a great coach. If that's going to cost you Vrabel, you're in the same situation like the Jets were in where they could have had Vrabel a year ago probably and they brought back Salah when it clearly wasn't going to work. Pierce on Vegas?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Interesting. I mean, look, I've been depending on how the next three games go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
All right. Here are the three I got to get your take on. And I'm watching this for the next three weeks. There's always a surprise. I can't believe they let go of that guy coach.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
The nominees. Mike McDaniel in Miami.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Shane Steichen in Indianapolis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco. Those would be my three. I'd be shocked if they, if they were let go one day after the season, but I also wouldn't be shocked. And then I guess maybe you could put Zach Taylor in there, but I actually think there's a chance the Bengals could make the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Right. When you decide to have a team of like half rookies and undrafted free agents, maybe you don't want to pay two coaches. So McDaniel, Steichen, Shanahan rank in order of what would surprise you the most.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah. And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier with these, these owners are just so different than the NBA owners. Steven Ross is like, ah, fuck. Yeah. How many, how many coaches in my path? Fuck it. I don't care. And just, what does he care? He's got a kajillion dollars. Some of these guys are old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, I mean, that's for the Pats fans who have been horrified by how sloppy the Pats have been and the terrible strategy and just how awful they look. The thing that a lot of us have focused on is that Kraft's just in his 80s. And you don't have a ton of these seasons left, right? And you can't be like, yeah, let's see one more year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
They're in such a unique situation with Drake May, like on a rookie contract where it's like the single best asset you could have in sports. And they have a lot of work to do. And do you want to set that back a year? I don't know if you do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Like, and it has absolutely gone terrible. Off top of your head, how many teams have benched a quarterback this year? Benched or injury? Benched? Benched. Four. Ten. Okay. That's a lot. Cousins, Levis, Daniel Jones, Brissette, Fields, Jameis, Richardson, Flacco, back and forth, Bryce Young, Minshew, and I'm counting that Hainer guy. Tanner Rattler, somebody got benched in that. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
There's benchings all over the place. That's one third of the league benched their quarterback this year. How are we getting worse?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Am I crazy to think Zach Wilson should have gotten one more chance with somebody to at least start a game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
How is Wentz not quarterbacking a team either? That's another one. There's been a lot of dialogue with the Chiefs where they're like, Reed asking Mahomes, how is this guy a backup? He's so good. It's like, well, you got to look at that Indianapolis game. All right, next topic. The Calais Campbell release, we rarely see, so Miami is officially out of it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You rarely see, this happens in basketball right before the March 1st deadline. You rarely see a guy get released by a team who could actually hop onto a playoff team. and have a dramatic impact, but I feel like he could. He could.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I'm just, I'm on pins and needles wondering where he goes. It's like the hardest asset to just stumble into in week 17 would be a guy in your defensive line that could push it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
If he actually wants to win a ring, go to the Chiefs. Go to the Chiefs. Just go to the Chiefs. Just be next to Chris Jones. Just bang some bodies around. Okay. You watched Aaron Rodgers' entire Netflix doc?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I refuse to watch it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
It has nothing to do with... I would actually watch it to spite Jimmy. He's my friend. No, I just don't want to spend... I don't want to spend, you know, valuable TV time with Rodgers.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Those guys are really good at what they do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
I'm sure it's well done. I just don't want to hang out with Rodgers for two hours.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Jesus. You almost made me want to watch the first part.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Well, so you're saying I should watch this over La Palma, the Norwegian disaster flick, where everything's dubbed, or series that's the number one TV series on Netflix right now? Is this the number one? I don't know. La Palma. I gotta see it. I like when you start watching those and then five minutes in, you realize their mouths aren't moving with the words. You're like, oh, now I get it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
These people are Norwegian.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Oh, and he does interviews with 11 of his teammates.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Ben and I were watching, we were both working at the kitchen table last night, watching Halloween 6 with Paul Rudd. Yeah, that's a classic movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Just really, really, really into Michael Myers. It's just an incredible performance.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
All right, we have to go because my computer is about to run out of batteries. It was fun. Schrager, great to see you as always. You're the man, dude. Thanks. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Peter Schrager. Thanks to Joe Haas and Big Waz. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti for producing as always. I'm going to be back on Sunday live. with Cousin Sal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah, Giannis had that clip from 2015 when the Bucks and the Bulls had that series and he got mad at Mike Dunleavy and he did the 50-foot charge and just knocked him into the first row. Giannis is not just a cuddly dude. That dude has an edge that they try to pretend he doesn't. I don't know why they would pretend he doesn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
You'll be able to watch it on YouTube as we're doing it. It'll be on Spotify video afterwards as well. Enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the greatest sports day in a while on Saturday too. It should be super fun. Can't wait to talk about it Sunday. Have a good weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
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Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. It's The Gambler with me and Chris Ryan. It was a one for us. We had a great time. 10-minute serial conversation there.
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Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Yeah. Yes. Right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Let's go with Giannis. It just feels like there's two things that they did wise that I just, the more I look at it, I just don't like. One is they could use the Olympics and even like the Netflix starting five show, like just push new people, push, like put the fucking Wagner's on starting five. Let's let, let's hang out with those goofy Germans and see what their life is like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Like, let's try to develop new people. And then the Olympics, same thing. Should anyone over 30 even be on the Olympic team? Maybe we should have it should be all like, you know, younger players are in their prime players or guys trying to have a moment because we were in this situation in the beginning of the 2010s with Durant and Russ.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
And remember, it was the same conversations about, well, who wants to watch OKC? It's a whole bunch of young team. They should be putting LeBron on and Kobe and the Celtics and Carmelo. And meanwhile, all the real basketball people are like, I fucking love watching that OKC team. Right. And then it took a while. Took a while.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager
Finally, 2014, when they played the Spurs, it felt like we had enough history with OKC and they became a thing. But I I don't know why they don't push the younger guys more, why they're so beholden to the guys who have already done it. And to me, it's just about ratings. But the ratings are going down. So it's not working.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Hey, Wemby and the Spurs are going to be in Austin next month, and I decided I wanted to see Wemby in Texas, and I have to go. I'm going to see him live. But while I'm in town, let's get together. Let's do a live show. Paramount Theater in Austin on Wednesday, February 19th. Tickets go on sale tomorrow at 10 a.m. Central Time. Again, live, Austin, Wednesday, February 19th.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Who's this competition for that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Is there any explanation for the weird pace of the Eagles offense and the lack of unpredictability and just how there's a sameness to every drive? There's a methodical nature to it and they never zag. They never keep you on your toes. Why do they do it that way? I just don't understand it as a football fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So just save as few plays as possible. Keep the clock moving. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed part one of this podcast, we put it up earlier today and it was a mid-season power poll. that I got a lot of takes off on and really had a good time.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Possible new rule. This is not in the manifesto. I'm just going to throw it out here as a possibility. Possible new rule. Beware of any home playoff favorite with a frustrated fan base that might kind of hate the team, coach, and or QB.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So for the lean for a million-dollar picks, I think House and I, we were talking about it earlier. If I had to bet it straight up, I would take the Eagles, and I think the Rams won their game. I think the biggest manifesto rule is we're the team that looked too good last week. I think they fit. I like them more on a tease or a parlay though. And I think that's the play with them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And if, you know, if they screw us, they screw us. But I think that's the way to go. You, are you safe with that shield?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And Haas, you're on board with that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Let's do Chiefs-Texans really quick. Chiefs minus eight and a half over the Texans. I still feel like if they call the intentional grounding on Stroud or if that fumble shotgun that goes over his head bounces to the left and the Chargers are up 13-0, that game's probably over. It was like it gave Stroud the superpower. I wasn't really impressed with either of those teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Meanwhile, you got Casey, three wins from a three-peat. Andy Reid could have 29 playoff wins by mid-February. Mahomes could be 18 and three in the playoffs by mid-February. They're plus 350 for the Super Bowl, which seems high because I think I clearly think they're going to win this game. And now you're just you basically have plus 350 for two games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
The the one that jumped out to me, though, this was in the bundles column about how Casey has failed to cover every seven plus spread this season.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Oh, and seven, even though they want all of those games shield. So this looks like the classic, just put them in a tease parlay because this is just what they do. They went by seven, they went by four, they went by three. And yet I like how the chiefs look lately. This is the best version of them we've seen this year. Could this be a little bit of a breakout party for them? Where are you leaning?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And then Joel Anderson and Van Lathan joined me to talk about college football and a whole bunch of other stuff. The Ohio State Notre Dame game, Joel's five favorite things. Really fun pod, but we had to keep going because football is happening this weekend. Round two, NFL playoffs. I have Sheil Kapati and Joe House joining us.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So Chiefs, eighth run, eighth against the run, fourth QB hits, six QB hurries, 11th tackles behind the line of scrimmage. House, there's a random non-nerd sports hack talk case with Mahomes where it's been Lamar and Josh for three, four weeks here. And Mahomes is kind of shoved to the side. He's like old guy Mahomes, even though he was like 27, 28. It's like, oh yeah, and Patrick Mahomes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
But all the hype with this Lamar versus Josh and everyone talking about them the whole year and the Ravens and they're the best team. And it's just fucking fuel for that. Everything we know about Mahomes, this is absolute fuel for this dude. And I wonder if this is, he pulls it out this week, House. And he waves it around and he does the lasso. And he's like, this is the first game of the weekend.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Hey, by the way, I'm Patrick Mahomes. And he just does 17 Mahomes things and reminds us how great he is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
We're gonna break down every game, our favorite parts of each matchup, and then we're gonna do some million dollar picks. I mentioned I wanted to talk about the wildfire recovery efforts out here in Southern California. Look, there's a lot of great things happening. I wanted to pass along five charities that I really like. The Wildfire Recovery Fund, which is calfund.org.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Winter still has to go through me. I just, I think those certain guys are like Brady was always wired like this and he's talked about it pretty openly. Like these guys take everything personally. They take every slate. They notice everything. They pretend they don't, but they do. Shield. Is this add up to it all? This could be an FU performance from Mahomes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So one bet, and this is something we saw last week with the quarterbacks that you don't want them to run during the first 18 weeks of the season. But when we get to the playoffs, you start using your legs more. And this has been, we've cashed in on this with Mahomes so many times. Like he's basically even odds, 25 plus yards this week. Against Houston. We know he does this in the playoffs.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
In the playoffs, he starts moving around more, taking more chances using his legs. So, you know, I thought last week I was mad that I didn't think of that with Lamar. It was so obvious that, of course, they were going to do that. Of course, he was going to use his legs like that. With the Texans, their D-line's really good. That's the one, like their ends can put some pressure on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And the Chiefs tackles make me nervous. And as I play the game out on my head shield, that's the one thing I keep coming back to is like, let's say this is just one of those weird, classic, ugly first half Chief playoff games. They're putting pressure on Mahomes. They get the one long Nico Collins pass. Chiefs guy fumbles a punt. And all of a sudden it's like 10-7 Texans at halftime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
We're like, what the hell is going on? My tease is in danger. What's happening? I don't see another scenario other than that. Is there anything else we're not thinking of?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
He's an unusual quarterback because during the same game, it can feel like he lost his confidence and then he completely gained it back and it's like has swagger. And it's all happening over the course of three hours. And you saw it happen last week. The playoff manifestos for this one. This is a big one. Rule number six, never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe it has a chance to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And this has been something that's been really helpful over the years. And if, look, if you bet, if you pick Casey minus eight and a half and they don't cover the odds of threading that needle between the higher number and them winning, like, you know, we call it, I, I'm just, I just want to pick winners and not worry about the line.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It's set up by the California Community Fund. That's just trying to get money to all the places we need as Southern California is obviously in a major, major crisis right now. The SoCal Fire Fund, which you can find at eifoundation.org, eifoundation.org.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So maybe a little bit less on that, but I don't think Houston has a chance to win. I don't think they're good enough. Um, so that's one, but where of all dome teams playing outdoors, especially in cold weather, boom, Texans, there's a beware of any team that reminds you of the 2007 giants rule. I just want to, I don't think the Texans remind me of the 2007 giants, but I just wanted to talk it out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
There's a couple similarities, right? Mix and run in the ball, kind of a younger erratic up and down quarterback like Eli in 2007, a good pass rush, a really good coach. There's elements, but I'm not willing to go there. Sheila, you agree? I don't think so. Yeah, that would shock me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Rule number 16 is take one last look at the quarterbacks. It's Mahomes versus Stroud. Mahomes has lost three times. He lost the D Ford game to Brady. His first year as a starter, where if D Ford doesn't say it's one of the great breaks in the history of Boston sports, D Ford jumping offsides. You have that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
You have him get his ass kicked by the, by Tampa in the super bowl where, you know, there's real reasons for that. Tampa's defense was great. They were able to pressure him the whole game. It was a, it was a little bit of a goofy Casey season. So that was the second one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And the third one was the game House and I lost incredible amounts of money on when the Bengals beat the Chiefs, where Mahomes got concussed at the end of the second quarter and they pretended he wasn't. But something happened and he was never the same the rest of the game. My point is, it's very unusual for Patrick Mahomes to lose in the playoffs.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And I feel pretty safe about putting money on him against the Houston Texans, guys. Yeah, agreed. I think we're unanimous. Okay, great. We're going to take a break and hit the other two games. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. From first whistle to final drive, FanDuel takes the NFL playoffs to the next level.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It provides immediate long-term support for community-centered recovery initiatives that aid students, school employees, and families impacted by the January 2025 fires. The third one is the LAFD Foundation Emergency Fire Fund, which you can find at supportlafd.org. They provide vital equipment and fund critical programs to help the LAFD save lives, protect communities.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Right now, new customers can bet $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if you win. That's $300 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet. The FanDuel app gives you everything you need for live bets, same game parlays, so much more. Plus, when you win, you'll get paid instantly. We're ripping through million-dollar picks. At the end of this podcast, I like round two. We have some good props as well.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So stay tuned for that. Visit Fando.com slash BS to join today. Get started with $300 of bonus bets. Again, Fando.com slash BS. You can go check out the ringer specials as well on the NFL page. Make this playoff season unforgettable with Fando, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. Must be 21 plus in president select states or 18 plus in president DC.
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First online real money wager, only $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions by receipt terms. At sportsbook.fando.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. All right, our third game, the Lions against the Washington Seawords, the beloved team of Joe House. So here are the rookie quarterbacks that have made the conference title, Game House.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Daniels is the most talented of all of those guys. His team needs him the most out of all of those guys. And I'm just pointing that out because it's so Brady first year as a starter made the Super Bowl. Mahomes first year as a starter almost made the Super Bowl. So if you think he's on that class, maybe that's a better comparison.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Does Daniels have it in him to win two playoff games and drag this team to the conference title game?
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Paramount Theater, some special guests. Basically, the BS podcast just doing its thing. Tickets go on sale Saturday at 10 a.m. Central Time. Details will be available at theringer.com slash events very soon. Hope to see you there. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Then there's World Central Kitchen, wck.org. Their relief team is in Southern California right now supporting first responders and families impacted by wildfires in the LA area. They have a link at the top when you go right to WCK to help Los Angeles specifically. And then last but not least, Habitat for Humanity, which has really gotten involved in the last week.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So everything House just laid out, Shiel. This is why I'm not betting it because I always lose on over-unders, but the over-under seems so high to me. It's 55 and a half. The Lions, I think, are 33 and a half, the over-under for their total points on FanDuel. And I agree with House.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I think Washington's going to try to have these long-ass drives and try to keep it to seven possessions on each side, and that's it. Why does everybody think this is going to be a shootout?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Also in a dome. against a not that good defense. It doesn't seem like the crowd's going to bother him because it doesn't seem like anything bothers him. And the amazing thing is how much they fucking trust him, House. Some of the things they were asking him to do in the second half, it was like he's 32 years old.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
That little lob screen pass that was one of the key plays of the game, nine things can go wrong in that play, but they trusted him. It just seems like over and over again, he has the wherewithal to know what to do in the right spots. He's really exciting. I think the line's too high.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Um, I, I'm not going to put like a ton of money on Washington or anything, but I, you know, I was looking at the outline of Washington plus four and a half is plus one 82 on Fando that I think this could be a close game. It reminds me of some of the games last year when we had, you know, green Bay, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
As a, as a big underdog, we had Tampa as a big underdog with the Rams or an underdog at one point. Like I think they can score. And I think even if they're down 14 plus, they can make, you know, get a cheap touchdown down the stretch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
They have a disaster response fund set up on their website at habitat.org for the wildfires. So I'm committing $250,000 total, 50K apiece to the five that I just mentioned. And if you're listening, do whatever you want. Do whatever you can. There's no right answer for any of this, but that's what I'm doing at least. All right, we are going to talk football right now with Sheil and House.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
That's my fear. Like you just, I always write down all the different stats and see how the teams match up in the offense versus defense. And you just see that Washington defense 30th against the run Detroit six with the run. And that was without Montgomery the last couple of weeks. And there, the fear would be Detroit just rushing, you know, 49 carries for 270 yards.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
One of those games manifesto rules, but where have the, nobody believes in us team is Washington or nobody believes in us team house. Cause it seems like there's belief.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Bradley Beal was the other one. God damn it. Let's just, let's, let's move on. Well, you're talking about Washington stars with huge balls who came through in big moments. That was the other guy that jumped to mind for me. You got a bunch of pick swaps for him. You're a dick. Two more manifesto rules. Never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe it has a chance to win.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I don't necessarily think Washington's going to win, but I also don't really believe in that Detroit defense either. And part of the calculus, when you think about we're back in on Detroit, partly because their defense looks so good against Minnesota. And then the Rams who were 26, the DVOA also looked awesome against Minnesota. And some, where do we stand on the Detroit defense right now?
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
For what we know, guys coming back, all that stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And I'm not just saying that because you're here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
House, is it possible for you to talk about the resurgence of Washington football over the last 12 months without breaking into tears?
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So Washington ultimately is a football town and this brought it back after Dan Snyder basically injected medicine into everybody's bodies to put them into a medical coma the entire time he was an owner.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Stay safe out there in Southern California. Hope everybody's good. We're going to talk some football right now. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is Thursday afternoon, Pacific time. Joe House is here because we did Million Dollar Picks. We did not get to do them last week. We're going to try to bounce back strong this week.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
She when I met House in nineteen eighty eight. And we went to college together. You were a year ahead of me, but 88, 90, 88, 89, 90, 91. And the Washington was like, they were probably the team. There was a bunch of successful teams in the 80s, but they were the most consistently successful over like a 12-year span all the way through the Ripon Super Bowl.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And that's how I knew you as this confident football fan. And then I gradually watched it get beaten out of you.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Think about how bad that was for me. Well, we both sucked in the 90s and then it went back. But is it weird for you that Washington has hope again? Because you've probably kind of given up on them as an Eagles fan.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It's funny that you can be good at owning one team and then bad at owning the other team. Yes. But it's basically like you would think it was something in the same skill set. All right, so we're going to lean toward, so Lions and a parlay or tees, we're all good with that?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And then maybe a little hedge, Washington bet, like a little tiny one house?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
All right, the big kahuna, Ravens-Bills, which flipped. It was Bills minus one and a half, and now it's Ravens minus one and a half, as predicted on this podcast with Sal on Sunday. There's so many ways to go with this. And a couple of people have brought up versions of this, but I feel like I've been alive long enough that I've seen a lot of these.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Like people throw in like the great QB matchups and they just grab two people who are really good. To me, it's different than a great QB matchup It's a point of the career QB matchup, which I think is completely different and a lot more special, right? So I wrote down, like, when we were in college, Montana and Elway played in the Super Bowl. And it was really meaningful.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Elway felt like this one-man band. Montana had a chance to be, like, the greatest ever. And it was like, who's winning this? And just that moment felt important. Elway Favre was really fun. Elway had already won. Favre was kind of the next Elway. Elway's trying to go back to back. Favre's like the next guy. That was like a QB moment.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
06, some people would say 03, 04, but Brady wasn't Brady really until 06. I don't personally think. 06, he had nobody. The Colts were the team. He goes in there in Indianapolis. It's Brady versus Manning. Manning's never beaten him in a big game. Manning comes back from 18. That was awesome. Brady versus Russell Wilson.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Would you put that in there for where we were with Russell Wilson in 2014 in the Super Bowl, already winning a Super Bowl title? Felt like he was heading toward Rodgers. Is he not quite good enough, Sheil?
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
All right, we'll cross off then. 2018... Brady versus Mahomes in KC, AFC title game. And then same thing 2020 when Brady was on the Bucs. That was the last time that Brady Mahomes was like the old, the old Wison champion versus the new upstart. This Lamar Josh battle is so unusual because neither guy has won. And they're at this awesome point in their career.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Even like I mentioned, 06, 98, Montana, Elway, like one side had won. This one, neither guy has won. And they're competing against each other for the right to now have to then beat Patrick Mahomes. It's a really unusual game. Sheil, can you remember any matchup quite like this in football? We've seen it in basketball, but not in football.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Well, and they're one of ones, too.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
House, I know how you feel about this game. This just seems like a terrible matchup for Buffalo. I just don't like the matchup. It's like a basketball team that's just going against an awesome center and doesn't have enough size to defend the center, right? It's like those three Shackiers in the Lakers where they would just play whoever. They play the Sixers, the Nets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And you just felt like, man, they just... They don't have the size. I just think Baltimore has too much size for this Buffalo defense. I don't see a world... where that Buffalo defense can win the game, which means Allen just has to be perfect and has to have one of the great moments of his career, I think, to beat them. You agree on this seems stacked for Baltimore angle, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And we brought in the real star of the Ringer Sunday pregame show, Shio Kapadia, who comes in every couple weeks like Dion Waiters and just crushes it. Big heat checks from you. Congrats on that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Sheil, I watch Hard Knocks because they're doing the AFC North. So I actually watched this week's episode. And they had a lot of like behind the scenes stuff of before the game and during the game. And Lamar is just so fucking confident. And all the stuff they capture, like a confident in a way that I just don't remember seeing in the previous things. I think, I think they all know something.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
They have something special with this combo with the Lamar and Henry that it's just unusual. It's different. It stands out. It's hard to stop. And they have a swagger to it. You could just kind of see it. And, and what was really interesting about it, they had Cam Hayward mic'd.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And near the end of the first half, when the, when the Ravens got that last touchdown and the Steelers are on the field and he's like, we got to try to strip the ball. Like I'm, I'm dead. Like I, like they're wearing us down. We got to like force a turnover. Cause he knows he was like, they were like killing them. Um, I just don't see why that wouldn't also happen to Buffalo's defense.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So is there, what, what world does, does Buffalo win this game?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Two playoff manifesto rules. Rule number nine, severely discount anything that happened in the first five to six weeks of the season. That's a good one. That's a good one. When we go back to week four, week five, guys are out. It's just stupid. I always discount that. Rule number 16, take one last look at the quarterbacks. Here's the difference. This isn't just Allen versus Lamar.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It's Allen versus Lamar and Henry. Yeah. I like James Cook. He's good. The Henry thing is different. And especially if they have a lead in the way they can keep it. I also feel like Baltimore's defense is just awesome against the run. And we saw it again, like for Pittsburgh, it was just the all time worst case scenario matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So for Alan, I think to beat them, he's going to have to do stuff with his legs. He's going to have to use his different receivers. It's going to be a lot of like moving the ball, 10, 11, 12 play drives. I just think Baltimore is the best team guys. Now, we've been in this spot heading into round two, and usually it doesn't work out with whoever we think that team is. I think they're really good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And I'm always a little slow. The catch is the playoff Lamar piece. And what's interesting about this matchup is the stakes for both guys, if one of them really fails in this spot. We talk about legacy a lot in sports, but Lamar kind of needs this game. If he loses this one now with the better team,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Then I think it opens up a conversation where, cool, you're the regular season guy, but every year in January, we see the same thing happen. What are you doing wrong? Talk about playoffs with quarterback shield. Is that fair to hang the losses on them like we do? Semi-fair, a little bit fair? Where do you stand?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Shield, this is what success looks like. Success comes with a backlash. You're feeling the backlash now. Minus 110 or better. Listen, that's all I look at. And then I go with the pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
We're going to take a break and come back and do Million Dollar Picks. Shayla, you're going to stay on. We'll do Million Dollar Picks for round two. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into. It makes it even better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I love, because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime. Visit amazon.com slash prime to get more out of whatever you're into.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If you want to take control of your finances, Apple Card is where it starts. A credit card that can give you up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. I have one. I can tell you this is true. I know and love Apple Card. So many places I can use it, especially during a busy time here with football, basketball, the holidays.
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All at once, I can use my Apple Card on tickets to a game, a gift from my dad, or even tickets as a gift for my dad. Plus, anytime there's a new Apple product, It's a lot easier. Apply for an Apple Card today. It's easy. Just go to the Wallet app on your iPhone. Again, that easy. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Can we go right to the Eagles-Rams game? We're going to break down all four games. Sheil is a Philly student. You can see him on the ringer Philly special sometimes. So I do the playoff manifesto and I'm going to read all the rules in a second. The playoff manifesto goes back to the late nineties. I've been honing it, cultivating it, working it, adding rules, taking out rules.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Terms and more at applecard.com. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year, by the way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn. With unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common, LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying. In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. All right. Million dollar picks round two. I'm going to throw out some possible bets. Ravens minus one and a half we talked about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Shields sounds like he's you just like the dog. You don't feel like you're, you're just afraid of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I just, I felt before I even knew what the line was, I was like, I just like the Ravens. I think it's a bad matchup for the bills. If the bills were playing the chiefs, I'd feel better about it. I just don't like the Ravens bills. So we're probably going to put something on Ravens minus one. Now there's a couple parlay teaser options that, with Chiefs, Eagles, Lions on FanDuel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
We did a little eight-point tease, even odds. Oh. We could take the Eagles all the way to plus one and a half. I know it infuriates Raheem, but it's actually better odds than the Moneyline Parlay to do the eight-point tease and to bring everything down. There's a seven-point tease that's plus 120. And there's a six-point tease that's plus 140.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So you would have Baltimore, I'm sorry, KC minus two and a half, the Eagles minus two and a half. Oh no, the Eagles even, Lions minus two and a half. So my instinct is the eight-point tease, and you just have to win the Chiefs, you just have to win the Lions, and then you get the free point and a half in the Eagles game, and that's even odds, and who's going to fuck us? Is my instinct.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Any alarms for either of you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I think that Lions 33 and a half is too high, but I don't want to bet it because I could also see a world where they score like 50 points. But I just think it's too high. I think they're trying to sucker you into. It's a lot of points, especially with how we laid out the game. I like the Mahomes 25 plus rushing yards bet.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
That's one 15-yard scramble when he does the thing where he sticks the ball out at the end and then gets a cheap shot and tries to pretend he got knocked unconscious for a second to try to get the flag. And two more scrambles. It's like a four for 27 shield. Does that make sense to you?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Eagles Rams has more manifesto rules attached to it than any playoff game I can ever remember.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Which one do you like more? The 4.5 runs or the 25 plus yards?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
You can do both. Yeah, no, I'm doing parlay him, but that's plus one 10 on Fando. I'm going to mark that one down. So Kelsey and Hopkins to both score touchdowns.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It has red flags. It has come hither. This is good. It is all over the map, which is what I could imagine you're probably feeling with this Eagles game, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It's been interesting watching them integrate him into their offense. And it seems like they really like him inside the 10. Usually it's Kelsey. It seems like they like him too. I've always had bad luck with the TD bets, but I mentioned that. Stafford and Stroud to both throw a pick. So two road QBs against good defenses. Both throw a pick. Plus 195.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Henry and Barkley both scored touchdowns plus 134 on Sunday. The little Sunday running back stud touchdown parlay. Henry with Hurts bumps to plus 175. Tush pushy. Something. Five yard scramble. Play both. Hurts TD plus 175. Play both. Josh Allen touchdown is plus 105.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I think it's around minus 110 probably.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
House, have you ever experimented with the longest rush? I feel like I'm doing an exotic tequila shot.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Barclay's minus 120 for Barclay, 19 and up. And then for Henry, it's probably, I'm going to guess the same. That will be 20 and a half minus 120. So if you try to hit both of them, probably split one, maybe lose a little big or hit both. What do you think, House? parlay him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
All right. So we're going to add that one. Plus 236. And then there's some most rushing yards that I thought were interesting. Henry plus 320. Barkley plus 155. The Barkley plus 155 I thought was a little delectable. Gibbs plus 550, but Montgomery is probably going to be back. So I don't know how many carries he's going to get.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
But the rushing receiving one I really liked was McLaurin plus 850 for most receiving yards this weekend. Some garbage time stuff. One long one. House seems dubious.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So we got to go through the manifesto. Before we do, House. You're leaning Eagles. You're Eagles-ish, too, for this game, correct?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
So plus eight 50, most rushing, most receiving for the weekend. I think it's worth that little dabble.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
And then the last one, Washington plus four and a half plus one 82. Is it worth a dabble?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It's like a very, very hairy middle, which is why you probably don't do it. If you take the Lions, you're just rooting for the Lions.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
See, I've never seen House do this before with gambling where he doesn't want to jinx his own team. It's really interesting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It's time. The Million Dollar Picks, round two, here with Joe House and Shiel Kapadia. We're up 1.867 million for the season. We took last week off. We're coming back strong. First bet, an eight point tease on FanDuel with the Chiefs minus eight and a half, the Eagles minus six and a half, and the Lions minus eight and a half. We're teasing all them down. It is even odds on FanDuel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
We are breaking the Raheem Palmer rule. We're teasing the Eagles through the zero. I can see him like almost having a convulsion right now, but Eagles to plus one and a half, the other two just to win. That's plus 100. We're going to put 300K on that. Next bet. The Ravens. Minus one and a half. Sheil was nervous about this one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
House and I just think it's no disrespect to the great people of Buffalo. Bad matchup. Wrong team, wrong time. Ravens minus one and a half. We are putting 250K on that one. And then we're going to dabble on some stuff. Some 10K. Mahomes, four and a half runs over, plus 110. Saquon and Henry. Saquon, 18 and a half yards over longest run. With Henry, longest run, 20 and a half, plus 236.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
That's Red Shield. I think so. Each bus runs were good. It's a great one. Stafford Stroud, both to throw one interception as the road quarterback in potentially bad weather games, plus 195. So we're doing McLaurin over 68 and a half receiving yards? One dude's two small McLaurin bets?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
McLaurin over 60 and a half. McLaurin to have the most receiving yards of the weekend, plus 850, where there's two games outdoors. He's one of the only ones indoors. And what do you want to put in the parlays? 25K or 10K? I mean, not the parlays, the prop bets.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
10K. And those are the million dollar picks for round two. Shale, happy gambling. Good luck with the Eagles. House, happy gambling. Good luck with the Washington. Whatever your name is now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
All right. Thanks, guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
35 degrees, maybe worse. Rain and snow, potentially. Matthew Stafford coming from LA. I'll go through some of the manifesto rules because it really is eye-opening. Rule number one, beware of the looked a little too good the previous playoff round team. That couldn't be more Ramsey. Rule number three, beware of the nobody believes in us team. Don't try to talk yourself into one either.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE NY or text HopeNY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
February 6th trade deadline is here, by the way. Just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team That starts with better insights from LinkedIn.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
With unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common, LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions. LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Once again, LinkedIn.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Hookah. I've got to talk to you guys about the Bondi 9, the new daily trainer from Hookah. The Bondi 9 delivers peak plushness for everyday miles overhauled from top to bottom.
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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I think the Rams are trying to, there's a nobody believes in us case. Rule number four, a sad one, but beware of any team that might use a major off-field distraction as a galvanizing force leading up to a game. We saw that last week, the Rams, all the terrible stuff in LA. It really seemed like it affected them in the game positively.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Rule number six, never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe that it has a chance to win. I'm going to stop there before I keep going with the rules. Do the Rams genuinely have a chance to win, Sheil?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Unfortunately, it was the sports movie for him where the final scene was him, his teammates lifting him up after the Packers game and going nuts. And the movie should have just ended. Yeah. But there was 20 minutes to go in the movie. And he got his ass kicked by the Lions in last week against the Rams. Sheil, we didn't talk about this on the pod, at least with you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Were you surprised that Darnold cratered like that? Because he roped me in. He roped me in. He roped Salen. Did he rope you in? He kind of half roped you in, right, House?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Green Bay show. What happened?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
I stayed at the craps table too long with Sam Darnold and with the Steelers heading into December. Just should have taken my chips, gone with House to get some food, some 2 a.m. pizza, and just would have been super happy with it. Hey, House, when he said the Daniel Jones mistake... which I think is a great way to frame it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
That's basically been the philosophy of the Washington Wizards for the last 40 years, right? The Daniel Jones mistake. This guy showed some hope. Here's a lot of money.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Well, you know, Embiid, he'll be back eventually when there's not four really tough games in five. When do you play Charlotte? Embiid's going to be back for that one. Circle it. Embiid's got Charlotte circled. Is there a Toronto game? Oh, I'll play against Toronto. That's great. All right. More manifesto rules. We're not even done with this game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Beware of all dome teams playing outdoors, especially in cold weather. Yikes. Rule number eight. Beware of any and all aging QBs in cold weather unless they drink half their body weight in water and like 40 things Tom Brady did. Rule number 15. This is working against the Eagle Shield. Okay. Make sure the team with a home field advantage actually has a home field advantage.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Philly's in that weird zone. The fans... They get fickle really fast. They get upset really fast. There's an ornery vibe in that stadium. Do you feel that changes this week with the snow and the rain or does it get worse?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
It's the only out of the four home games house. it's the only crowd that I feel like you might be able to take out in the first quarter. I don't feel like you're taking out Buffalo. Casey's been there too many times. Detroit's going to be a mad house. I don't feel like that crowd's going to get nervous, but I feel like you can get to the Philly crowd.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Cause there's that model of the Eagles, that first quarter, 39 seconds of play. It's just, it just feels clumsy and discombobulated. It's zero, zero after the first quarter. Don't you think house? Like there's, well,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
The only thing I didn't believe about everything you just said is when you said the good people of Philadelphia. You don't like Philadelphia. Who are you kidding? You don't. Buddy. You don't like Philadelphia. You don't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
After at about the 45 minute mark when everyone else is finished and the house is still eating somehow.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House
Two more rules. Take one last look at the quarterbacks. And remember, there's plenty of time to bet against any QB or coach. This is specifically a Hertz question. So I know, is Hertz, what does he command on your Eagles text thread, Shiel? How much of the conversation is what's up with Hertz? Like 40%, 20%, what is it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That would be a good t-shirt, the fuck-off Mavericks. Two things. One, I've never seen, it's almost like when they have those probability things of like a coin toss and it's like, this guy rolled, flipped a quarter and 23 straight times it came up heads.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The Mavericks, 23 straight times, have made the wrong decision, where I've completely disagreed with whatever they decided to do, starting with not shopping the trade. Not shopping.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You go on through every single piece, then the trade happens, the way they handled it, the way Mark Cuban didn't do anything, and then all of a sudden went on his little tour pretending he didn't have anything to do with it, even though he didn't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What was it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The Mavericks had a concussion?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
It doesn't matter. To me, that's irrelevant. It was still the stupidest trade of our lifetime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Get Austin Reeves in the trade, fuckfaces. I have no argument with anything that you say.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Also, if they had called us in, I've said this before, but did anyone bring up, yo, you might be lighting a fire under him. This is already a stupid trade. But the person you're trading, you're basically killing off that person and he's going to be a much more motivated version of the same person, which is going to be bad for, like, just don't do this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I wonder what, off to your Davis point, I wonder what happens if they bring him in for a physical, they already have the outcry and then they fail him in the physical the way the Lakers failed Mark Williams. And they void the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That would be an amazing outcome. In a text thread.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, I think a lot of teams felt that way.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
All the other teams. 31 teams in the league or 30 teams in the league. And the two expansion teams. They also would have traded everything. That's right. Well, so the one thing is just I can't believe how many decisions in a row the Mavericks screwed up. Even to this week with the way they handled everything was amazing. The second thing, you know, and we've been moving this way now for 20 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Maybe Jordan even started it in the 90s where fans like they play more than a team. We've never seen a trade where the fans went with the player, right? So true. We saw LeBron fans follow him to Cleveland, Miami, back to Cleveland, LA, just because they were LeBron fans. We've seen the phenomenon in the 21st century of, I just like this player, I'm following him wherever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Maybe it's Kevin Durant, whoever it is. We've never seen a fan base kind of switch sides against the team But yeah, it kind of makes sense because you think like people get divorced all the time. Sure. Right? Yeah. What is it? Like 50% of marriages end in divorce? That's the stat. Why did you say it so nervously? You got something to tell me? No, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But this could be the first ever, I've divorced my team and now I am following Luca on the Lakers and that's my new team. I felt like there was real seeds in the stands last night. I don't know if it was just Laker fans. Some of those fans might have just been Mavs fans who are now like, fuck it, I'm a Laker fan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But this could be the next 10 years. Every time he comes back, the Lakers are treated like it's a home game for the Lakers in Dallas. That is going to happen. I expect that. Well, there's only one outcome now, and this has been the conspiracy the whole time, but that the family gets the Vegas team and they make the Dallas team the expansion team. That's actually a realistic outcome now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The league can't countenance that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What if Cuban bought the team back? Mark Cuban, conquering hero, coming out. I shouldn't have sold the team. I'll take them back now. My bad. Maybe it's worth less because they've destroyed a billion dollars of value.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
We didn't plan on this. Let's do it right now. Teams you would rather own than the Mavericks. I'll just list every team. OKC, Cleveland, Boston, Houston, the Knicks. You'd want to own all of those teams over the Mavericks. True story. Lakers, Indiana?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I'd rather own Dallas. Minnesota?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Milwaukee?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
We're going to talk a lot of golf. We're going to do a big baby doll deep dive later. We have a lot of good stuff coming up on this podcast. But Joe House is here, and we stayed up late to watch Minnesota-Memphis, a game that yet again had dramatic Western Conference ramifications. Minnesota wins. Minnesota now the 7 seed. Memphis now the 8 seed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I'd rather have Milwaukee. Detroit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Rather have Detroit. How about that? If I told you two years ago you'd rather own the Detroit Pistons than Dallas Mavericks. Well, two years ago, no. You'd say no way. Orlando? Orlando? Yeah, I'd rather have Palo in Florida. No state tax.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Sacramento?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, that's the first one. Atlanta, I'd rather have Atlanta. Me too. Chicago, I'd rather have Chicago and be in a major city. Miami, heat culture. Come on. Phoenix. Phoenix.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Because you inherit the crazy luxury tax and all the terrible front office stuff. I think I'd rather have Dallas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I'd rather have Portland. San Antonio, obviously.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Brooklyn? Black Sheep, New York scene, but I might get Cooper Flag in two months. That one's close. And I have a bunch of picks. I'd rather be Brooklyn. Philly? Depends on where that pick is. Five years from now. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Okay, there's another one. Not even close. Would you rather be Charlotte or Dallas? Dallas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What if you got the flag pick? So Dallas, unless Charlotte gets the flag pick. And I'd rather be Utah. Would you rather be the Wizards or Dallas? Would you rather own Washington or Dallas? So me, if it was me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I think I'd rather have Dallas.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So the point is, it was less than six teams. Yes. And a year ago, you would have put Dallas in the top eight. They were in the finals with Luca. They were in the finals. Come on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So maybe Mark Cuban buys them back for like $2.5 million. $2.5 billion? Yeah, he gets it back for a billion cheaper. I'm in a really conflicted spot, by the way. Why? Because I kind of enjoy Luka. I do want him to stick it to them, but he's on the Lakers, the team that other than the Yankees, I hate the most. Yeah. And this is like really agonizing for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
They have Austin Reeves, who I really enjoy watching. They have Luca, who I enjoy the comeback thing. The LeBron thing's fascinating.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
We're basically ESPN classifying the league with these two teams.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
OKC, Cleveland, Detroit. Show us some new people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The irony of that, Lakers-Warriors round one, the biggest ratings in round one history. And Adam Silver like, ah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Looking like they're going to get absolutely slaughtered by OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Two things happened. Football ended. And the league figured out how to get Luka Dacic to the Lakers for 80% off. Unbelievable. Who are you picking for the West right now? Still OKC?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, me too. All right. We're going to take a break. Come back with House and Nathan talking Masters. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. It's the final stretch of the NBA season. The playoff picture changing literally by the minute. From three-pointers to steals to assists, FanDuel has so many ways to bet your favorite player props.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The $250 in bonus bets make every moment more with FanDuel, official sports betting partner. All right, taping this 7 o'clock Eastern time, this part of the podcast. Joe House is here. Nathan Hubbard is here from our Fairway Rolling podcast. We've been at the Masters all week. We went to round one today.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Unless.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Unless they lose the 8-9 game. So Memphis, 12-17 in their last 29. That includes a coach firing. 21st net rating in those games, not counting tonight. And they would play their Sacramento or Dallas in the 8-9 game. And we were watching them this whole game. And I've watched them a few times. They can't guard anybody anymore. It just feels like anyone can go off on them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Trying to keep it a little big picture just because by the time some people hear this, the Masters Round 2 will be going. Things change. I'm pretty sure Justin Rose isn't going to be at minus 14 in two days. He's at minus 7 now. Scott is at minus 4. Why are you making a... Never say never.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, whatever. He's not going to be minus 14 after two days. It's not likely. Big picture stuff. First thing, the gallery excitement thing because we did not have Tiger Woods this time around. And I was trying to think who, and we were able to watch practice rounds on Tuesday. The par three was yesterday. These guys were messing around. Nathan and I had a great moment.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, tell the moment when we stumbled into those guys on the fifth hole yesterday. On the fifth hole?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
We were like, these guys are nice at loose. But the big thing is Rory, the gallery moves a little differently. And it made me wonder if he now has... The conch, as they said in Lord and the Flies, the conch, is that what it was called?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Two straight double bogeys down the stretch. Suboptimal. House, how did we get here where he's the number one gallery guy? Because it was Tiger forever. And if Tiger was here, it would still be Tiger. And Rory, when you see him in person, he's jacked. He's not gigantic. Nice little Irish guy, but the fans fucking love him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So you're going authenticity, which is a big term in the mid-2020s. They say that. People think Rory's authentic. Turns out authentic wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Slightly star-crossed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Just enough.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, I am still at the Masters. We're going to talk a lot about golf and we're going to do some NBA at the top.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
More terrible Rory putts and shots today or more meals for you today? What was the bigger number? Meals, for sure.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So Rory's improbably a clear number one. I feel like Tiger had that spot forever. Mickelson was in there for a little bit. For a little bit.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
If they go a little smaller, they can get bullied. They can't guard anybody's perimeter, point guard, scoring guard type guy. It's a mess. And I just don't think they're any kind of threat whatsoever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, I'm saying way back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
He had it a little bit. It's a pretty small group of people in general. But I asked you who you think the top four is right now for gallery, just watching the way the gallery moves. And when you're at the Masters... especially when the tournament starts, people, they'll go two holes ahead anticipating when the person's coming. They want to get like a good spot so they can get as close as possible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Or you'll have the gallery just following, which is like you said today when Tiger's in the Masters when he was playing, it was like two separate tournaments happening. It was like the gallery following Tiger. 25 deep. And then everybody else who's also in the tournament. Right. So it's interesting to watch. And the number two guy on my list, I was pretty surprised by it. It's Bryson. It is.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Like, clearly unquestionably. And I got to say, he's edging closer to the Rory spot than I thought. And people, so what is it?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But he's not crushing the ball like he did four years ago, like as far, right? It's...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
He's matured. He's still hitting the piss out of it. But not like, we'll never see it again like it was a few years ago. I mean, it's interesting the way you lay it out. It's like, it's basically the Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, Memphis was winning at halftime.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
We knew this because you had a first-half bet on Minnesota. I did. Yeah, you played that perfectly.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What's the coach's name? Coach B.O. ?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
T-O-B-O.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The new Memphis coach who apparently didn't have any defensive playbook stuff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What a disappointment. When you think where that team was three years ago versus where they're heading going forward and what their assets are.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The most interesting thing they have going is, oh, John Morant, he's doing a grenade now. He was doing the gun before. Now he's doing the grenade celebration. It's like, how about play some fucking defense, Ja Morant? How about that? Why don't you guard somebody?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
,.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
,.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
If you're the Wizards GM? No.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
If you got the fourth pick in the draft, would you trade Jordan Poole and the fourth pick for John Morant?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Who could have guessed?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Unbelievable stuff. Everybody loves a comeback. Beefy Bryson and Beefy Nathan. When do we eat again? Do we eat for the next podcast segment? No, I'm going to need that. Nathan and I are both going on a diet after this week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
He was housing Bojangles last night, dipping in a ranch, eating... The rice thing Chang made late? At 1.30 in the morning. I'm feeling great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Unbelievable. We come back from a party and we're kind of hungry and Chang's just there making stuff. He's like... Chang's the true hero. He's a bigger hero than Scotty Scheffler.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So, does our fourth master's together? At least, yes. Anything different? Anything better or worse? Because I think the thing that always strikes me is that I get the exact same feelings, vibes every time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What about the par three people picking up their kids?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
He'll forever hold that against Russell Henley. This is an old guy thing for me. I don't know how we started involving young kids into professional sports. Everyone has kids. Congratulations. You had a kid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
We have kids now taking shots in the par three, these people that are waiting. Everybody's like, here are my kids. Whiffing it into the water. They're not even good. Here are my four kids. I actually wonder, did anybody who had their kids in the par three yesterday play well today? No, that's... I bet Justin Rose didn't have his kids out there. Maybe he did. Bryson doesn't have kids. That's right.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
When you have little kids like that, and we've all had little kids, you're just constantly worried they're going to do something stupid. When they're six, five, seven... And you have them out in a group of public people like I would have been terrified of Ben. Ben would have like run into the freaking water and jumped in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
As my friend Polly Walnuts once said, remember when is the lowest form of conversation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I just wanted something to be grumpy about. I love the masters. Less kids. I didn't fly here to see other people's kids. Yeah, how about this? Don't go. You don't have to go to part three. Well, we did it. We only saw like one hole.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
There we go. But we did see Butler Cabin. We did see Butler Cabin.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Except he's too tall. All right, so you guys, when are you doing the next Fairway Rolling?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You should both bring your kids in to chip in on the podcast. It'll be like the par three. Definitely not doing that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You know what's funny, though? You're going to be doing that at the same time your son is watching Clippers Warriors for playoff position, and his head might explode. You might be cleaning up shrapnel of his head. Well, that'll be an interesting way to bring him into the pod, then.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, I get it. Well, so Ant has grabbed, and we knew this happened already, but Ja had that cool young on the rise superstar spot and Ant grabbed it and was awesome tonight. Now, who knows? This could flip around, but Minnesota plays Brooklyn and Utah at home. Two teams that don't want to win games anymore.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That's part of my job. I convinced Chang's wife to have another kid. I'm just... Lord have mercy. It's all about the kids. All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks. All right. Taping this part of the podcast with David Chang, Cousin Sal, James, Baby Doll Dixon, one of the biggest celebrities here at the Masters this week. Sal, what were the highlights other than we... So let me set the scene.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You don't have your phone at the Masters. Mm-hmm. And if you're with a group of people, the goal is don't get separated from the people. It's the worst thing you can do because you have no way of contacting them. So you take it from here.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So we picked this spot. We're like, we're going to be there three o'clock. And then we're going to move. And you come back. You meet us with house. And it's me and Chang and Nathan. You don't have baby doll. And I immediately panic because I'm like, this is it. This is now a kidnapping movie. We might never see him again. We've turned in our phones. So we have no way. He doesn't have a phone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
His phone's with my phone. And it's just a complete mess. And how late were you, baby? And when did you actually show up? Let's see. And why did you feel like you had to buy more stuff? It was shopping. Yeah. You spent almost $5,000 on stuff this trip, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Should we have just left them?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I like to get my steps in and see the course. You want to go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Worst case scenario, they're going to be a seven seed unless there's some sort of massive collapse. Golden State is at Portland, home for the Clippers next two. So Minnesota could potentially climb to six. Where they'd play the Lakers, potentially. I assume the Lakers, they play home Houston at Portland. I don't know. This is so... I feel stupid even bringing up all the matchups.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That's a problem for Sal. Don't step up from church.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, then the other thing that happened today was more your fault because... How was this my fault? I mean, I almost got tasered. Well, let's see if we're talking about the right... We were able to get... Well, we were able to get access to this special pro shop that's like for members only because somebody slipped us a badge. So a couple of us went in to see if there was anything.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, we earned the badge. Yeah, you did TV today for ESPN. I wasn't invited. Um... But baby comes out with another bag of stuff. And what happens next, Chang?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, I want to get into that. But in this case, it was a pretty mild-mannered one. You just took the bag and you whipped it into a roped-off area.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
To a place where there was a suddenly pissed off security guard wondering why that happened. Fully restricted area. And then multiple people came over. No, no, no. He threw it over the head of the security guard. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That's what happened. So then baby's trying to get the bag back. They're deciding whether they want to kick us out or not. And Sal thinks this is all hilarious.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But you know Obama, though. You could have said like, Barack, baby doll.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, the number one thing I ever saw you do to baby doll was Jimmy's wedding. Oh. Which was a great weekend and just a really lovely night. And everybody had a great time. And near the end, we're all talking. We're in the corner of wherever the giant reception is. And we're talking. I think you're smoking. Of course. And they're bringing the cake out.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And it's the three of us and Louis and I think Jimmy. And they're bringing this giant cake out. And they're walking by us. And we see the cake. And you just know from knowing the cuz for 15 years.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You put it together. Cake.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And Sal's watching the cake. Tongue in cheek. Sal Strong went to the side of his mouth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And you put it together and you just jumped sideways right as Sal was about. It was one of the greatest athletic moves I've ever seen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
As Sal was about to try to push you, and then Jimmy admitted after, it would have been worth it. Even if you ruined the cake, the story would have been better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
It's one of the great what ifs in wedding history. I did a Jedi mind trick. I didn't even touch you that time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
If Baby had blown out his Achilles jumping sideways, would that have made it funnier or less funnier?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
My point is, if it's 2-7 and it's Houston, Minnesota... First of all, that's an awesome series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we launched the Zach Lowe Show this week. He did three episodes. You can watch them as video podcasts on Spotify. You can listen to them wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on Zach's YouTube channel that we launched as well. So check it out. I might pop on there. Next week, FanDuel Sportsbook.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Second of all, there's definitely going to be some sort of altercation. Altercations. I don't know what it'll be, but there will be an altercation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
When do you think the cuz is peak of fucking with you? What was the peak year? If he was an athlete, what would you say?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So like first year Jimmy show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I remember when I started working for Jimmy show and you were so legendary for fucking with everybody. Yeah. And then we went to San Diego for that Super Bowl thing. And I stayed in a room with you and people were like, you're staying in a room with Sal? And I was like, yeah, what's the problem? They're like, oh, good luck. Don't fall asleep.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And then by the time we went to bed that night, I was sufficiently nervous. It was like I was in Shawshank waiting for fucking Boggs to come get me. I didn't know what was going to happen, but you left me alone because I think I was the new guy. You probably didn't think about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
It really is. It's your magnum opus.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You and I have had this. We've known each other since 1988. We never like to bet a playoff series where we don't have the best player in the series. Houston, Minnesota, 2-7. The 17 would have the best player in the series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But this is the side, like people know Sal on my podcast from Guest Alliance and we've been together forever, but they don't know this other side of Sal as much. Right. I see. I think the best Sal story is the security camera on J.K.L. in the outside of Jimmy's office when our friend Brad started choking on a sandwich, which he would choke from time to time because he doesn't have all his teeth.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But he started choking and he waved over. Our friend Scott. Scott comes over. It starts performing the Heimlich on Brad, who's choking to death. And instead of being concerned, you could see Sal in the back of the footage running over, grabbing his phone and videotaping Brad choking to death. Instead of helping Brad. Two things I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I had to document it for myself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
It is true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
This is also true.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I didn't even think of that. I know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, Chen cooked dinner last night. We had some Fando people over some other people. It was very fun. And for some reason, Baby decided to give a toast.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Baby was very social for about an hour and a half and then disappeared to make a one and a half hour business call at nine o'clock. and was just gone the rest of the night and then claimed, I was very social. I was. I talked to everybody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Now, Houston has a bunch of awesome defensive players and athletes. They do. To throw at that best player. They could. Not only do they have Ahmed Thompson, who's been coming on like a freight train. I think it has to be heard from in all defense. Tremendous. Not only have Dylan Brooks, who will try to start 19 fights with Ant.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, he shouldn't be... You know, part of the secret... We've known Baby for a while. He's known him longer than me, but part of his secret is compliments are currency. That's what he does. He always figures out a nice way... to be like just hanging out with Chang one day and be like, you know, it's just amazing everything you've accomplished. That's right. I was talking to somebody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
He probably didn't talk to anybody. I was talking to somebody the other day about just how incredible your journey's been, and it's just awesome to see, baby. Great job, baby. Thank you, baby. And then you feel great, and you're like, you know who I love? Baby doll. I'm a businessman.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
He had a text that used the pseudonym. Is that wrong? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That's hilarious. One of the other things I love with babies.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What the masters when you run into competitors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I don't, I mean, they leave and then one person, then they leave. And I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And I don't know if you remember that game they had earlier in the season, which was one of the most fun games of the season. They also have Tari Eason.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Do you belong to more or less than former President Barack Obama?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I'm sure they're delighted to have him. Absolutely. As opposed to having you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So this is like, on paper, the perfect team To just throw dudes over and over again at Ant. So my guess is, because of what I just said about, oh, you never want to not have the best player in a series, there's going to be Minnesota stuff. But I kind of like Houston if that's the matchup.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
He claims it's, I feel like you write it off. Like, what do you do? I don't write it off, no.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
What's the point of having nine country club memberships?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
doing that because he today we watched him have a long emotional um reunion with somebody from an old country club that he no longer belongs to yeah that one i i left that was one on long island i i i upgraded so i i didn't need that one of your country clubs has obama in the club yes have you played with obama i did not play with him no i asked him when we were going to play
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Mr. President. You call him Mr. President? Absolutely. I wouldn't call him that. You don't first name?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
This is another segment I wanted to do. This reminds me. Last time we talked about greatest celebrity smokers that you've had cigarettes with. We wanted to do blank canvas if you could have a cigarette top three people you would want to have a cigarette with that you haven't had a cigarette with? Is Obama in the top three? Like you're at the Vineyard Country Club. You see him out there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Maybe he sees you out there. I'm going to say yes. So he'd be in the top three?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Who else?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Oh, I don't even think it was really a closet smoker. I think it was in the Rose Garden, pinching butts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Is there anybody you really... I mean, Sinatra would have been amazing.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Johnny Carson?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Johnny. You remember me, Johnny. Yeah. Yeah, Carson would be good. Those old 70s Carson shows.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
There's not a lot of smokers left. I'll tell you who I smoked. I mean, you had three with Chang last night. of violently coughing this morning. I was violently coughing this morning. But it was more for you, like, I mean, it's a Mount Rushmore cigarette for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, this literally happened. That's so wild to me. Well, you know what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah. He went over, pulled out of parliament and immediately got heckled by baby. Yeah. It was parliament.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Are not. It's like double A baseball for cigarettes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Doing parliaments.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So the honor was mine. So what's the greatest single out of nowhere cigarette you've had with somebody?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Oh, can we guess?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Peter Dinklage. Wait, let's see. Peter Dinklage would have been a good one. Queen Cersei? Nope. Jon Snow. Boom.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, but he was good tonight. He's figured out where he fits in on this Minnesota team from a bully ball standpoint. Memphis went a little small in that game tonight. And he was like, cool, I'm going to absolutely, he does that thing, he keeps banging into you, banging into you, does a little fade away. Or he goes to the basket. I don't know. I do like him going to the basket.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I remember at Jimmy's wedding, we were out where the food trucks were and the valets, the three of us, for like an hour and a half, just smoking, watching the people come by. And then Sal just started to show up, which I won't talk about. But we had it. It was like an hour. Then my wife, both of our wives were like, where are you? Where are our guys? We were out with baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
This could lead to a Kid Harrington resurgence.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Sounds like you need to watch Game of Thrones again. I do. I need to bone up on some of these facts.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
After the Tuesday pod, we had some people say, baby should host a smoking podcast for The Ringer. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I don't know. I mean, you're the artist. Maybe you were so recognized. Maybe you have like video podcasts are becoming more and more popular. Maybe it's one smoke a baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I feel like he's found his identity a little bit on this team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
It's like the.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
First gas Chappelle.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You give them credit for the wins lately, though? They've had some nice wins.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
There's bad advanced metrics for them in the half court. There's half court stats that are bad. There's crunch time stuff that's terrible. Yes. And that would be the hope if you're Minnesota, is you have a guy who could score, and Houston potentially doesn't. And it's the Fred VanVleet step back. But I don't know, man.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Houston feels like the perfect team to just frustrate Ant, throw all kinds of shit at him, throw little staggered little double teams at him, just get him so that he wants to go into hero ball mode against really good defenders and... It's a really interesting series. So as unexcited as that would be about Memphis OKC or Sacramento OKC or the corpse of Dallas OKC.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah. Nico! Yeah, so then here's the other thing. So it looks like the Lakers are going to be the three seed. Now, they could blow the Houston game on a... They have a home game against Houston who they... I don't know. It just feels like the Lakers... really like where they are right now against most teams. But let's say 3-6 is Lakers-Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
We're doing 30 on 30 on Fridays where you can bet on 30-point scores for the last Friday of the NBA regular season. I'll be tweeting out my picks at some point on Friday. Coming up on this podcast, Joe House and I stayed up late here on the East Coast to watch Minnesota-Memphis. Minnesota.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
My wife likes that movie.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
There was a moment there, though, when it seemed like the show was going to continue with him hosting the show and Larry in retirement.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
No, I finally found the right question.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Were you angry, disappointed? What's the third thing he does? Disappointed? We more insulted, disappointed, or angry when the Larry Sanders thing didn't work out? I was rip shit. What's the most rip shit you've been? Is that number one? No. What's number one? All right. So one through seven involves Daniel Callison, then eight is what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
There was some... Yeah, I know what you're talking about. There was some possible shanking in the works that you found out about. That's all I'm going to say.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Oh, yeah. What happened with the gnomes?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That pissed me off. You said a lot of times. The masters, they have these gnomes that you can get in different parts of the course, and people show up at 6.30 in the morning and try to buy the gnomes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
All-timer. All-time fun first round. Yeah. Just a history series. But we watched this happen two weeks ago, and the Lakers are a really good matchup for Golden State because they can go small. Any team where they can play Draymond at the five is a win for Golden State.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I don't really fully understand.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
You want to put them in one of your seven houses. Yeah, I want to display them, of course.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So here's why... I was disappointed.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But here's what's disappointing about... You getting screwed over on the gnome today that he thought he was getting. I'm positive Sal would have broken it at some point. I know you were thinking about it. Oh, baby, let me see what that would have been.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Do you have any opinions, Shane?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I'm staying with Straka. He did look strapping.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I do wonder if Beefy Bryson might, this could be the moment for him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I think it's going to be one of the big guns. This feels like a big guns tournament. Like a Schaffler kind of thing? Yeah, just one of the real – this feels like a moment this weekend. And just in general, a crazy sports weekend with this – all this stuff happening in basketball all at the same time. Because God forbid the NBA isn't on a weekend where other major shit is happening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I have an answer, but do you want to answer that, Chang, in your opinion?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Oh, I like where you're going with this. They want to rig it a little bit?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So I was thinking today, cause I was talking to somebody who hadn't been here before and you know, we're walking the course, there are huge golf fans. Um, and I was trying to explain why I love the masters. It's the only sporting event that's exactly the same every year, but the people have changed, you know, and it goes back so far.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And you know, I've been here four times and each time it feels the same. The holes are the same. It's still cool in all the same ways. But the really cool thing is, like you said, your first Masters that you remember was like 1970? Yes. Billy Casper won in 1970. I was eight years old. Yeah, so I vaguely remember the 75 one as my first one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But I just remember Nicholas in the 70s and hoping he would win the Masters and becoming attached to him. But then you just think these different generations just move through. It's the exact same course. there's nothing else really like it. They don't play the World Series or the Super Bowl. Nothing has the continuity. And even in golf, all the tournaments are in different places.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
It'll be like, oh, cool, the US Open's in Pebble Beach this year, but it might not have been for... So it's just, I think that's what it is. And even when we were talking in the last segment about seeing speed, And like Spieth is on the 12th hole and you're just like, ugh. Right, right. As they say, tradition like no other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
The players have baggage with the course and the holes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And they hit these different stages. Like you saw Freddie Couples today. Now he's the old guy. He takes the Tom Watson spot. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, and especially like being able to be that close to all these famous golfers. Yeah. Where you could just be like all of a sudden. There's Rory. He's three feet away walking by us. Why is he ignoring me?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
So if somebody wanted to ask you to cook the dinner, that would be your number one dinner you've ever cooked?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, so we could get that. and then Denver Clippers. But, you know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Augusta called. I did not like their offer. They wouldn't even pay for a sous chef, baby.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That fucking place.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Wow. That was like when Ralph Cox got cut from the 1980 Olympic hockey team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Baby, a pleasure as always. Sal and Chang, thank you. Thanks, bro. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sal and Babydoll and Chang and House and Nathan. Don't forget to listen to Fairway Rowan on Sunday right after the Masters ends. You can get their recap podcast there. Don't forget about Zach Lowe's new podcast, The Zach Lowe Show.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Don't forget that I'm coming back on Sunday night with Rosillo. We're going to wait until after all the Sunday night games and the masters and, uh, and we'll try to break down early preview of the playoff picture and everything we saw over the weekend. I am looking forward to that. Don't forget about Celtic city on max. First six episodes are up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Um, we just finished the bird error about to go into the nineties on Monday night on HBO. So stay tuned for that and, uh, enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Counter. We're going to have some sort of matchup where you're like, shit, I wish these teams were playing in round one. It's going to be somebody. If Kawhi is healthy with Clippers, that's a fun matchup just period against anybody. And then this Denver team, we were studying the internet video of Denver beats the Kings. Adelman's first game as the interim coach. Gives a little speech.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
locker room seemed kind of raucous for him after. And it really made me think like it might even been worse than they were letting on just the vibe.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Lakers. It's, you know, it's never, it's never happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Has it ever happened?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I don't think it's ever happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I feel like we've had moments. I remember in 06 when the Lakers were up 3-1 against the Suns and then they fell apart and then Kobe didn't shoot in the second half because he was so mad at everybody. That was the year it was supposed to be Lakers-Clippers. Other than that, I don't... I don't think it's ever happened.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
L.A.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
That's another one. Golden State probably feels like they have a more complete team, better bench. They'll just let Jokic have his 35, 15, 12 and take out everybody. Denver, the one thing they did, they started Pickett and played him big minutes and seems like they try to confine Westbrook And he was two for 11 in 17 minutes. Seems like a good idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
convincing we're going to talk about that with the west picture looks like for the playoffs headed into the final weekend of the season and then we talk about the masters me and house and nathan hubbard our fairway rolling house we were at the course all day today noticed a lot of stuff we're going to talk about that and then last but not least we had james baby doll dixon on the tuesday pod uh
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
But some of the stuff that came out, The Athletic had a piece about how Westbrook was a big lightning rod with Booth. And it sounds like everything was a lightning rod with those guys. But Malone was playing Westbrook too much. The front office was really upset about that. I mean, he's a nightmare in these crunch times.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Where do you stand on just firing a coach in the last month or the last week of the season? Because we did not grow up with shit like that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
If it was all about this was such a poisonous thing, why not fire the GM and then figure out? They must have also felt like the coach had just completely lost the team. It's the only explanation.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Yeah, but they're patient with all their coaches, though, in all the sports.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
This time they weren't.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
I think they felt like, you know, we have one of the great offensive players of all time. We're going the wrong way. Can we still salvage this? These West matchups are fucking crazy to figure out. Why not?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, they're announcing this was done the way it was. So at least if we do this, maybe it's not done. But this version is done.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Do this is fire the coach, try to change the energy around the team. The energy. Put somebody in there who's actually going to play, you know, the younger guys and not Russell Westbrook. I don't know.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Can we talk about what we saw in that? Now, granted, Chang was...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
making dinner for 20 people so we had the laker game on and we're trying to watch then we caught up on all the highlights but uh i happen to be watching live when luca just started breaking down during that whole you called us all over yeah i couldn't believe it i because i was like is he getting choked up it's not sound on it's not believable i can't ever remember in the history of sports a situation like this with a team i'm talking about dallas not lakers
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
And then we made Slovenian t-shirts for him and did a video to thank him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
A lot of questions from listeners, from people in my life. What's going on with that guy? So we dove into it with me and Sal and Chang and Babydoll, and we went for a full hour with them. So this is quite a podcast. I think we should bring in our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this past midnight on the East Coast because we are here in Augusta, Georgia.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll
Well, he wanted to work out his injury on his own.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But Luka and Reeves out there at the same time, it's just really tough when you're playing a slashing kick team like the one today. Plus Butler, there was a couple times he was like, oh, you're putting this guy on me? And he would just go right to the basket. So it's a weird team. I I'm still afraid of them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
If you talk, I've talked to a couple of former famous players who are all the famous players who used to play are really high in this Lakers team. I think except Barkley, just because they see like the talent and the potential, but I wonder could that end up being this team's legacy? Are we seeing things that maybe aren't quite there, but we're projecting what we think is there?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Or is this just a team that can't really rebound or defend anybody?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, I watched the Indiana Laker game with my dad last week. And the one thing I don't think this Lakers team is going to be... And the Pacers wouldn't do it all the time. We were going nuts because we're just rooting against the Lakers. We're just like, spread them out, go to the basket. Spread them out, go to the basket. Spread them out, go to the basket.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And then sometimes Indiana would just settle for these 26-footers. Like, dude, just go to the basket. You're going to get to the basket. And I think more and more teams are starting to realize this. Just go to the basket. There's going to be nobody waiting for you. We're going to get there. On the Lakers side... Um, I just think LeBron's playing unbelievable. So good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I just, I don't really understand it. Um, that from an all around standpoint, it's probably, this is the most he's looked like 2013 range LeBron. He was 10 for 15 tonight. It's not like he's taking a shitload of shots and has the ball all the time. He's picking his spots, the defense. He's trying to rebound.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Can I still be a 40 minutes a game guy in the playoffs? We're going to find out on Sunday. Stay tuned. Coming up on this podcast, Rob Mahoney and I, we wanted to talk about Lakers-Warriors tonight because it was an important game and had a lot of playoff implications. And also just to see those two teams play who they are right now after the trades and what they look like against each other.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
He didn't really rebound tonight as much as he usually has, but the all-around stuff's been really great. I also don't know if that's sustainable when we get to mid-April going every other day. Big picture, neither of these teams wants that play-in game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That's just extra miles on the car. That's like, oh, we're going to go... all the way cross country to LA, but on the way, we're going to go this way and stop at the Grand Canyon. Like they don't want to stop at the Grand Canyon. It's just like, we want this trip to be straight as possible. Lakers are four, Golden State is five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Normally that sounds great, but the T-Wolves are seven, one behind the Warriors in the last column. And then the Lakers are two over them. And the Grizzlies are, who won an amazing game tonight against Miami. It was like, I, it was one of, I watched it. It was one of those, I don't know who's winning this game. And then jaw once again, comes through at the end, crazy shot, right?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
When it seemed like Memphis was just going to free fall into the eighth seed. And it was like, oh shit. Okay. See Memphis. We have our NBA TV series. I don't need to watch one second of this. We're going for a sweep, but Memphis wins. And now this is a mess. And I don't, I don't know how much you want to do on Western conference playoff roulette, but, uh,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
The only thing I can think is I would just much rather be in that 2-3 area so I don't have to see OKC for a little while. And I wonder, as we get into the final week, who starts getting a little chicanerous, just made up that word, to try to nudge their way. I have my eye on Denver.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
After they lost that Minnesota game, I think they're like, whatever. May the chips fall where they may. If I'm the Lakers, I don't want to see OKC until round three because that's the one team I don't think the Lakers can beat. Do you think I'm crazy? I just don't like that matchup for them in any way, shape, or form.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
They're so good. And Jokic is having the best year of his career. And with six games left, I don't think I'm going to vote for him for MVP.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I'm not sealed up, but I'm like 98% there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I just feel like we're going to be in the high 60s with this OKC team. And it's not... You can't do the thing where... wow, you know, you can put anybody in that top spot. That team's still really good because every game I've watched and all the games I've seen OKC in person, nobody can guard Shea Gilgis-Alexander. No. Nobody in the league.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I haven't, I saw that against the Clippers game I went to last week. He had a bad shooting game, but he, all the shots were good. They just didn't go in.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So we talked about that. Plus, White Lotus season finale. And then my old friend Kevin Wilds came on and we talked about, is April the greatest take month? Talked about Will Chamberlain. Talked about a bunch of stuff. And then we did a slew of half-baked ideas. So that's the pod. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, recording this a little before 10 o'clock Pacific time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
They made him work for everything. He still got all the shots he wanted. He's shaking his head because he's like, I can't believe this isn't going in tonight. With that said, I don't think Minnesota would be afraid of them at all. I'm not defending it, but I just don't think that team has fear of any matchup. I think they would waltz into that series and be like, yeah, sure, let's beat them.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Um, and that's the team they could see. And I think the Clippers know they can play with them because they've had really good games against them. Yeah. Whether they can beat them, I don't know, but they're not going to be afraid of them. So I would, if I'm OKC, those are the two I wouldn't be like super pumped about.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, and all the advanced stats back it up and they can shoot. And I'm with you. I'm never going to love Randall. But there's a physicality with him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But there's a physicality with him lately that I think there's a little bit more of an identity to the team as a whole when you watch them. Where they've got size, identity, and Ant is just... There's no player on any other team that he doesn't think he's better than for better or worse. And that's just the way it goes. I...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I thought Denver, Minnesota, I thought that other night I had already put my pot up with Zach on Tuesday before those two games. And to watch Curry and Jokic do that back to back, I know you guys talked about it in your pod, but just that five hours of two of the great offensive players in the history of the league really, really having a night. And it just was all in a row.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And it got to the point with the Nuggets and it seemed like so many different times they had that game or they were going to lose that game. And then it really seemed like they had it. And then Russ, Who? is just wandering around with a fucking pitchfork ready to just stab somebody with it. If you see it in these crunch times, you're just terrified.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
He's the Texas Chainsaw Massacre guy if you're rooting for Denver. But he's not even doing that. He's stabbing himself.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It's a disaster. He was already horrible in the crunch time overtime section where there was eight times where you're like, just take him out. You're better off just not having him out there. He just didn't have it. And then he has that stretch in the last 10 seconds. And it was one of those games where you're like,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
when we get to game 82 and Sunday and we're trying to figure out all the playoff matchups, I feel like we're going to go back to that game and be like, remember that stupid game when Russ screwed up the Denver game. And now, now Denver's in the, in the four spot playing the Lakers and the four or five, and then the loser or the winner plays. Okay.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
See, and they could have been three and played Houston around too. And just felt like one of those. And conversely, Minnesota who, if they can get to, uh, Even if they're in the 7-8 and they can get that 7. But I just want to play Houston. That's where I've landed with all these things. I want to play Houston. I want to play Memphis.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Those are the two teams that I just think are a level below all these other ones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, it's like they'd have to drop two more it looks like.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, and the other thing that really helps Houston is their half court in the last six, seven, eight minutes is pretty brutal. It can be. But against Denver's defense, it doesn't have to be that brutal.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, those guys, they're going to have their team, hopefully, in this last week. Russ, I just can't imagine he sees crunch time again. You can't do it. It's too risky. Probably not. They play the Warriors on Friday night. Yeah. They end the season with the Rockets, which could be an all-time... Wait, what are these two teams up to? We're just guys...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
One team's just scratching multiple starters right before we go.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I haven't checked the schedule. Did that work? But didn't they do the non-games and then the important games? Didn't they stagger them in some way?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, so then the other piece is this Dallas Sacramento Phoenix factory of sadness and Portland somehow still alive, even though they've, they're just like, can we just get Cooper flag? Oh no, we want to get Dallas at 38, 39 Sacramento, 36 and 40 and Phoenix at 35 and 41.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I mean, I've gotten to the point where I'm rooting against Phoenix cause I don't want to see them in the play in, but I don't want to see Sacramento in the play in either. And I don't, I don't want to watch Dallas at all. I mean, Dallas might host a playing game where the crowd is chanting fire Nico about the general manager as the playoff, as the playing game's going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So I just kind of want to get to the final eight and see where it goes. The Clippers thing, the Clippers thing is the most interesting where they land. Cause if that's, that's just, that's just a horrible one, eight draw for a team that goes 69 and 13. Here's your reward. The Clippers they're healthy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, they're healthy for, yeah, I guess today. Wait, before you go, Draymond Green, Defensive Player of the Year. Um, I'm sure that helped today. He had a nice, big, awesome stop. Nationally televised game was all over the place. I thought that was the most, it's the Lakers. He's always a little weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Cause I think especially when it was against LeBron and AD and you always felt like he was kind of a tempered Draymond because those were his friends and he wasn't doing like usual Draymond shit tonight. He was not tempered. Um, I thought he was very alpha E and looked like the Draymond that we're, we've become accustomed to. Defensive player of the year. Yeah, I think he's going to win.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Rob Mahoney is here from the Prestige TV podcast. Oh, wait, you do basketball, too. I forgot. Occasionally, yeah. So we watched some basketball just now. Warriors, Lakers. A game that they used to kind of shove down our throats and we used to like it because Steph and LeBron weren't playing, but they were two ultimately harmless teams. And now they're actual contenders.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Is he a defensive player of the year for you? I don't think so.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I think it's a great point. Because the other one I was looking at was Lou Dort. I talked about that with Zach. Just separating everything, he's the best defensive player I've seen this year. But they're so afraid to give the perimeter guys that award. But he's done the most interesting stuff on defense for me.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It might have. But that was a little bit like this year. This year, I mean, the problem with this year is Wemby should win defensive player of the year every year and he got knocked out. And it's, you know, it's just almost like a political convention where the candidate everybody thought was going to win is out. And now it's all of a sudden there's 10 people arguing on stage. I just,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I don't feel like any of these are the greatest possible candidates. No. It's the same thing with Rookie of the Year, where it's like, all right, I guess we got to vote for somebody.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It's the most fun... award subplot since it looks like MVP is a wrap. Coach of the Year is just like, just do a shot and do a whip it and then just pick one of six guys. Is there a wrong Coach of the Year choice? I'm leaning toward Dagnall right now and he's definitely not going to win, but it's like if they win 70 games, I'm probably going to vote for him. Atkinson's good. Bickerstaff's good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Just pick five guys. It's easy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And it was a fascinating enough matchup with a lot at stake. And we decided to wait until afterwards to do a little pot about it. So what'd you learn? What was your number one thing you learned?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Jalen Williams, 65. It's not like this team's been a healthy juggernaut all year. The first two months of the year, they didn't have a center for one of those months. None of it mattered.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
None of it mattered. Crazy. There you go. Well, for the listeners... You can skip forward from right here if you're not watching White Lotus because I have to talk White Lotus with Rob for one minute. So if you don't care about that, just skip forward ahead to Kevin Wilds because we're going to keep going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But if you do care about White Lotus, stick around because I'm going to ask you about White Lotus. 90 minute season finale. Yep. They won't send us screeners. Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin and I are going to be downtown LA watching it live, going live right after on YouTube, have no idea what's going to happen. Is this going to be crazier than we expected?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Or is it going to be like weirdly disappointing and more like thoughtful, existential, Buddhist? Like we're going to have like almost like a philosophical religious experience or is there just going to be bodies everywhere?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I went back and watched the first scene. Gunshot. Pause. Gunshot. Pause. Gunshot. Gunshots.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Didn't see any monkeys. Well, I mean, I don't know. They're going Tarantino. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I wanted to figure out one thing to overreact to. Yeah. That's what we do on these Thursday night pods after I'm a little groggy. I don't know if the Lakers can rebound and defend at the level you need to be to actually win four straight playoff rounds for nine straight weeks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And that was in the back of my head this whole time that these guys were so talented, the three guys together, that maybe it would have mattered. And then you watch a game like this when they're getting, you know, how many, the Warriors had 14 offensive rebounds. Yep. You know, they were, I wouldn't say hunting different matchups, but they certainly got a lot of threes that they liked.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
,,,,,,, Well, what's crazy about the 60s, and this is how I ended up deciding to write a Chamberlain Russell chapter when I did my book. When I was doing all the research, so many people weighed in on Wilt. And it was players. It was stuff that never happens now. Like long paragraphs from like Bill Bradley saying, here's why Wilt's a loser. Just laying out like in the book that he wrote.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
They ended up going 19 for 42 from three. And defensively, they basically was small ball against small ball, which the Warriors are like delighted to do that. So if I'm the Lakers, I'm not too upset because Luka didn't play well, right? On the other hand, I didn't get anything from my bench either. And I really have an issue at center. I don't have, I have Hayes and that's about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And you're just like, holy shit. Like people could just never decide who this guy was, whether he won or not. Even Russell was pretty critical of him.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That's going to come back because we're in the so-and-so is a problem era of social media. This is how I was thinking about Wilt last week because one of those accounts fed me game six, Bucs-Lakers, 1972. Bucs are defending champs. They have Kareem. Kareem's just killing everybody. Wilt in the last game. Is it the blocks? He's blocking Kareem's skyhook. This was fed to me. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
This was fed to me. It was riveting.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Why are we being fed the same stuff? I know. It was the For You. It's the For You tab. They know we like basketball. So this sent me on some deep dive rabbit hole. I went to Basketball Reference. When I did my book, they didn't have the box scores past like 1986. So I went to Basketball Reference and I was like, I got to find out more about this series.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It was Oscar Robertson and Kareem on one side and West and Will Chamberlain on the other. So it's four of the best 12 players ever in a series. That seems like a big deal. The Lakers won 33 games that year. Milwaukee had won the title the year before. Kareem's killing everybody. So I went and looked at the stats and it made me even more confused.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, I read every Sports Illustrated story about it. And it was 2-2 after four games. And then the Lakers won the last two. And one of the keys to the series was Jim McMillan, who struggled with weight during the first part of his career. His teammates called him Pudgeball. But then he lit it up in the series. And I was like, imagine this now. This would be like two days of Jim McMillan.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Jim McMillan arguments. I wish we had a little...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And I'm playing Rui and I have this oversized, I have some size, but it goes back to that Mark Williams trade, which is still, you know, could be a sliding doors, what if for the season for them. But if he came into the game today, with what we saw from him after the trade deadline,
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But the, the league back then, like they just, you know, it was a pretty, it was doing okay. But you have this series that really, if it happened now, it would be this incredible series where you have like some of the greatest players of all time battling like real stakes back to back versus a 33 game winning streak. I didn't know anything about it. So yeah, Will.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I have no idea why he stopped shooting. I would watch like a 15 episode Will Chamberlain thing. There we go. If it was done correctly. Start working on it. Because then he did. Start working on it. Then he did. He just quit and started playing volleyball. Like he had that whole stretch. Very interesting. Was he playing professional volleyball? Yeah. Played professional volleyball.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, there was another thing that got fed to me with, it was Wilt Chamberlain when he was 16 playing with pros and he's the same Wilt Chamberlain body, but he's super skinny and just like completely dominating everybody. I think, I think Will's underrated as a Twitter. Cause sometimes young Shaq will have a moment on social media too, where he's just like going full court and dunking over guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, because I'll go to Twitter. And now it, like, defaults to the For You page. But the For You page is getting better. And it's just serving me basketball now constantly. So, like, the other day I went on and it was Kobe – against Rip Hamilton in a 1996 McDonald's all America practice. And it was like, watch Kobe light up Rip Hamilton. I'm like, absolutely. How many minutes is this?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Can I watch this? This looks great. This is great content.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, that's right. Instagram, it gets, they definitely, Instagram is a little gamier with the stuff they push. It's a little seedier. It's like two in the morning, kind of wandering around New York City, kind of seedy. Twitter, they'll push you mostly the sports and then something horrible that you don't have any interest in, like some sort of hardcore political or whatever.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But I like the basketball stuff. So what sports storyline right now are you the most fascinated in? What is it? Is it NBA related?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
How about that there were two different measurements? One was 32 and a half, and then the other was 33, and he's like, I'm actually a 33.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, I didn't get that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, and there's no answer, so you could just talk about it in circles forever and nobody knows until we see the playoff.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That's the 2016 Warriors, right? Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
They lost because they suspended Draymond for game five.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It's a tough suspension. It's funny because Adam Silver has been in the circles recently because there's this growing conspiracy thing that I don't know how this would be true, but it's been a fun one to monitor that the league pushed for the Luka trade to the Lakers. I mean... It's a great one, though. It's turning into this generation's version of the frozen envelope with the Ewing lottery.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I just can't. It's because there's no other explanation for the trade. So now the conspiracy people have nudged that way to that one. And I can't wait to get aggregated incorrectly for it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That was the first one. Listen, did I hop on that tricycle and take it around for a little spin in my living room? I did. I did. I tested it out. It's pretty ludicrous. I like the league brokering a trade strategy. It's pretty funny, especially because they killed the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers 15 years ago.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But that's the thing. When there's no explanation for something, that's when conspiracies start. When it's just like, this is the dumbest trade ever. There has to be a reason this happened. None of the reasons fit. That's when you have conspiracies. Just bad call.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So skin's hanging off Nico Harrison's body right as the trade's being called in?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
The only move for him is just to resign. Because at some point, you only have one life, we think. And if your life just for the next two years is you've committed this reviled transaction. And the whole point of like being a GM or whatever for a team, other than running the team, picking the players, but you also want to go to the games. and be like, yeah, that's my team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And now that's been, I just don't understand what the win is for him at this point.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So wait until after the draft, make sure you didn't get in the top three.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I'll never waver from that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
This is good. So the best case scenario for him is the Lakers suck in the playoffs. they underachieve in some way or it doesn't work out. And there's more questions about Luca, even though there shouldn't be questions, but a little like after the finals last year, like, huh, he wasn't that good in the finals. And the Celtics really attacked him on defense. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Maybe, maybe this could be a James Harden of this generation kind of guy. He'd have that. And then you would have whoever wins the title. It's like, man, like OKC wins the title. Holy shit, their defense. Wow. That's right. Defense wins championships. Then Nico's like, see what I mean? I'm just trying to tell you guys.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You know what's funny? I have probably a hot take off the trade. If they had gotten Reeves in it with how good Reeves is. Yes. And it was Reeves and Anthony Davis and two firsts. Like we're in the ballpark of like, now I can start to see it. You can at least talk me into it after two drinks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I can't believe we're talking about this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, it's the not getting enough is to me, if we're doing a seesaw, it's 70% you didn't get enough. And then 30%, I can't believe you traded Luka Doncic. But it's still the 70% of you just didn't get enough. Mikhail Bridges got, was it five first round picks? Yeah, two of them were kind of. But yeah, it's still Davis is Davis is like a top 12 guy, but he's a little injury prone.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But yeah, it's I don't know what you do because you've you've hurt the sport in a city in a way that we've kind of time out. Never, never seen.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Did not hurt. Well, that's what I mean. It's hurt the sport in one city, but it helped in the other cities. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I have an announcement for you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
They traded Mookie Betts, I think February 2020. It's like a couple weeks before COVID.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, I'm going to do the tweet, but then I'm going to dive into it a little more. Love it. The Red Sox were never the same for me after that trade. They'd won four titles. Baseball was changing. My basketball, football fascinations were growing every year. All these different reasons for it. It just was not life and death for me like it used to be. But it was really about the trade.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I think it was like five straws that broke the camel's back because I love Mookie Betts. Like the whole point of sports is to... You want Tom Brady for 20 years. You want Jason Tatum for 20 years. Like you get one of these guys. It's like Dallas with Luca. You get one of these guys. This is like one fourth or one fifth of your life potentially that you're disguised on your team.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And Mookie was like everything I wanted from a good player.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So they trade him. I'm never the same. And it really made me... but now with this, uh, with the Red Sox, with Christian Campbell and with Roman Anthony gumming and hopefully mayor, but especially how much fun it's been to watch Christian Campbell, these first few games.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Um, and it's very similar to Mookie's rookie season where he just like, he's swinging from the heels on everything, but his bats hitting everything. And you just, you don't want to miss is that bats the way he carries himself. He had this thing the other day, Cora talked about where he said, um, he doesn't call his teammates, teammates, um, Did you hear this? No. He doesn't say teammate.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
He says friend. Love it. He's like, these are my friends. My friend, Raphael Devers, he doesn't use the word teammate. I was like, this guy's out of Central Castings, 22. He's the most exciting rookie they've had since Mookie Betts. But then Roman Anthony, who's coming at some point this year, who's the best prospect in baseball. And you know what?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I'm like, I was on the Castaway Island with Tom Hanks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, I was doing some spearfishing, sleeping in a cave, talking to a volleyball, but I think I'm back.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It's the only sport where when somebody's just an awesome prospect... It makes the most sense in baseball when you just see somebody and you're like, that guy's fucking awesome. I guess that can happen in basketball too, but not in the same way because they're a little younger and they're competing against like grown ass men.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
In baseball, sometimes you have these dudes come in and you're like, wow. You see some of the Roman Anthony highlights and you're like, Are you worried about Devers on the flip side? My dad is. It's a big conversation with my dad. He had a hit yesterday. He was like, he came in fat in camp. It's his fault. He was like, offset about it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I think baseball has become the new David Stern NBA where every first month of the season, they have some sort of controversy now. Like this year, it's the torpedo bats. I was all in. I read every torpedo bat thing. I've been watching the Yankees quips of them. I was like, wow, this is, why is this legal? How are they doing this? Why don't other teams? Like, it's really fascinating. Loved it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I'm surprised.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, they're not tall but they're big. They're big, but then in games like this, where it's just you see the other team that can move the ball around, that can get to the rim, that has a bunch of different options, that has bench scoring, that can exploit their bench against the Lakers' bench, then you start to get a little nervous.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Let me tell you something. I look back at, uh, some of the kids sports that I had to sit through and baseball's way up there is the worst. Really? Yeah. Was he any good? No, no. It wasn't about whether... He was actually good. And I think the COVID thing kind of ended the baseball career. Oh, it stinks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It was just... It's the seating, like the worst possible seating situations, the long drives everywhere, the games... Um, nobody has control over the pitches over the mound. The ball's going everywhere. Kids are crying. Like if you go 10, that sweet spot with the boys between eight and 11, anyone's a candidate start crying during the game. Oh yeah. Everyone's like, it's just a rollercoaster ride.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But the sports I missed, um, Um, thank God gymnastics. That sounds horrific. Swimming sounds awful. Just from the parent standpoint. Uh, and then track and field. Those are the big three of the ones you don't want your kid to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Good to be outside at least. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
We can't appreciate it.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You know what was part of the baseball thing for me? I thought the parents were especially annoying. It's a tough parent crowd, but the guy who has to go right behind home plate, videotape all his kids' pitches, and he's blocking everybody. And then the two parents who get a little chirpy with kids on the other team, you're like, dude, these kids are 10. Shut up. It's a pretty bad scene for that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Oh, that's really smart.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That's great. That's really smart. See, you're always a thinker.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Coming up, Warriors, Lakers, White Lotus, half-baked ideas. Action Pack next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Hey, I got a new Rewatchables coming this week because Kyle Brandt and I, we decided to do The Saint because Val Kilmer passed away. And we want to talk about Val Comer. We want to talk about a very bizarre movie that we both love.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
When Ben was playing third base, I would sit in left field and I really enjoyed it because nobody was out there. I was still close enough to see what was going on with him. He'd occasionally get the foul ball hit toward me. And there were no parents.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I mean, Curry finished with 37, 10 for 21, is starting to play his way towards second-team All-NBA, I feel like. Might already be there. Especially because... it does seem like Brunson's coming back in time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
When the parents don't understand baseball. Isn't that a strikeout? No, it's three. It's two strikes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah. No, it's only two outs. We're not adding any. Haven't had three outs yet. We'll take a break. We'll do half-baked ideas. All right. So you've been doing half-baked ideas with me pretty much ever since I've had a podcast. For whatever reason, none of them have been sold for millions of dollars. They're happening, though. Every once in a while, one of them happens.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, one of them got turned into a movie, The Purge. We didn't get any credit. We did our leap year movie. It became The Purge. I'll always believe it. The...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you for that one. Start ripping them off. I have three bonus ones too, but I'll intersperse mine later because this is your show and your gimmick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It's almost like getting a concussion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So you brought him in the house. That's the worst thing you can do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And I, do you believe in legacy stuff at all with this? Like, do you feel like, uh, almost like in boxing where you got to actually beat the champ to take the title? Like if it's, he's on the bubble, second team or third team, same for LeBron. It's like, eh, I'm going to edge you towards second team for the pedigree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Ragu? Tomato sauce?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It's like days. Isn't it like seven, eight, nine days? It's like burning popcorn multiplied by a hundred.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So what else? I feel like that can't be the only job for the, for the animal wolf. It's gotta be, there's gotta be a couple other things like bit by a rattlesnake. He knows what to do with that.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
He's got like five specialties.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Tough one for the dog, man. Getting sprayed close by a skunk. It's honestly a concussion.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Maybe that's not the right way to think about it, but for both of those guys, that's what I'm probably going to end up doing because of the pedigree.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So it's like a grilling a cheeseburger smell just a lot of the time.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Was there another level of this where it's almost like you have a surround sound system in your house, but instead it's a surround smell system? And you're like, today I'm going to pass out the smell of burgers being grilled. And they just go through your house?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Can AI come up with that? AI can do everything. AI is overrated. Pizza burning on a wood grill smell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It smells great. You made me think of LA Live. walking to where we both used to do TV and do TV shows, and Grantland was there, that there was that restaurant that would spew out the hot air from the air conditioning that smelled like food, like burgers and dogs, but it was like this hot, humid, disgusting version of the smell.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And when you walked through it, you got hit by it every time, and you would always forget it was there.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Was it good or no? Bad. Bad smell. It was like a hot, heat... Across from Tatsuya? Hot, heat, like... kind of food that was already made, gross smell. Oh, I remember that. And I got hit by it last week. And you didn't like it? Going to my car in the garage. Did not like it. All of your odors sound much better.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I talked about this two weeks ago. Brady screwed it up in football. Now we just assume Aaron Rodgers shouldn't be watching.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It's really only Brady and LeBron. That's right. They're the only two that made it into their forties and stayed good.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Also a good way for the old guys to stick around.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, the Warriors are 20 and four since that Butler trade in the games that he's actually played. He was quiet today for the most part, but also wasn't quiet. I felt like he was present in the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Hey. Yeah, like Terrell Owens trying to cook Will Johnson.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Do you want my worst one, a decent one, or one that I'm actually afraid to give out because I feel like it's an actual idea?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Okay. Um, remember masterclass when all the Malcolm Gladwell teaches you how to write a book and is that still a thing? I don't know if it's still a thing or not. And you would watch these tutorials, but it was like, they would just get all these awesome people. Yeah. What is the biggest question couples ask one another every week?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
The number one thing, couples who are married, who are somewhere between my age group and your age group, even though we're pretty close to each other. The number one question. Number one question we ask week after week.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That's a good one. Yeah, that's probably, I had that number too. Number one. Should we watch this? Yeah. It's like, hey, Netflix. Go check Netflix. What's on there? Temptation Island.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Should we watch this? Watch one episode? What's this new show, Adolescence? Oh. Celtic city on max sports documentary at a team. I don't know. Is this a good one? Should we watch this? This is the, there's so much content. You never know what to watch, what not to watch. What's good. What's not good. Okay. And then you end up like you're on Google.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You're checking out like, Oh, did vulture write a recap of this? They did. Oh wait, the ringer wrote a piece that said, they said this was good. Oh, I heard on the, like there's this extra step. Well, not with Master Critic. Okay, go ahead. We're doing all AI for movies, TV, reality. So reality, it's like, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And then there was a couple spots where he took over and he would get to the... He has a sense for when they need him. I really like the way this team plays together. The Kaminga piece was the question for me. Trying to shoehorn him in and you could have... I even looked at his props today heading into the game and his over-under for points was 13 and a half. And I was thinking like...
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That feels way too high to me, but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's way too low. It was one of those. And then, you know, he was out there for big stretches in crunch time. They were playing him and Draymond, Podzemski, Curry, and Butler. And that was their five. And it was interesting because I don't know if we've seen those five guys together before. in a big situation like that before.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
They had size. Kaminga was doing the thing where he's kind of floating around the baseline and doing these weird little back cuts. They could switch a little bit on defense with all that, but it also helps that Pazemski had, you know, as you said, one of the best games of his career. But the Kaminga thing, what'd you see? What'd you notice?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Thank you.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
,,,,,, . . . . . .. a P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P,實... , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a el... ,,,,,,, Followed by Melissa, Amy, Jessica, Heather, and Angela. By the way, names that no longer exist. Those kids are not... Oh, Saruti says it's infiltrated his IG algorithm. Saruti's about to have a kid. Oh, nice. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Saruti, what's the name? Saruti, just come on the Zoom. So this 100% exists?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Has this ever happened in half-baked ideas where there's been a half-baked idea? Like, is this a sign that we're getting old?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah. Go all like seventies. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, but now that you shouldn't be Jalen, Suriti, don't name your kid Jalen if you're having a boy.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
See, the reason I thought this was a half-baked idea, because the move is just don't do anything that everybody else is doing in the last 10 years. Go back, like there's no Jennys anymore. Jenny was the most popular name when we were growing up. And there's like, nobody wants to name their kid Jenny because all the adults all know people named Jenny and they want to zag.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But really the move is to zag the other way and go with Jenny. I know, but everyone is zagging. That's the problem.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Kathleen. Yeah, look, the trending names right now, Wilds. Rachel, I believe, is in the Bible.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, the trending names right now. Arthur, Birdie, Celeste, Daphne, and Dorothy. So like the 1920s and 30s names are coming back. We'll probably have a Marge and a Madge, all that stuff. I like those. So Rudy, the thing you just, you just have to avoid having the name that your kid just has to have the last name initial next to their name for eight years. Yeah.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah. I was, Zoe was in one class where there were three Zoes. And we were like, we thought like there were, maybe we were just naive. Anyway, Cerruti. All right, that one's fully baked. Thanks, Cerruti. Good job, Cerruti. What's your next one, Wiles? I've got, no, that one's no good. I can't believe they're baby name consultants that this is a job. I'm just stunned by this.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Bring them back. Yeah. Bring your Charlotte. You're playing out the string, put a band in there and it's happier. And it's great.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Nobody likes it and they do it because if you don't do it, it gets too quiet in the arena and then people can yell stuff and then people get upset. The band thing, I would say one of the reasons is it's taking up space somewhere. Oh, boo hoo. Well, that's, I'm just saying these guys are all greedy. That's why we have 82 games instead of 70 because these guys are grabbing every dollar they can.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Ballmer could have done it. Ballmer could have been like, I'm building the best arena ever. And by the way, we're going to have a band and not like a college band. It's going to be like a big ensemble, Doobie Brothers kind of band that during timeouts, it's like when a late night TV show goes to commercial and all of a sudden the band kicks in. That's what we're doing, folks.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I think Steve Ballmer should do that. Maybe he's listening.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Great one.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Oh, so you jump, but you don't shoot till you're like near the foul line? Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I'm trying to think of the situation. So you need to be like a three-on-two?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So you think this is the new Eurostep?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I remember that game. That was awesome. When that happened, you won the game. Yes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Tatum's been messing around with this one-legged thing that's pretty fun.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I kind of enjoy it. What's your last one?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Oh, you're performing other people's half-baked ideas? Would Bill Byrne do this in his Hulu specials? Like, hey guys, while you're still here, my buddy has a whole bit I'm going to do.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, it's true. Well, the Kaminga, the on-off numbers with him were pretty rough, even though it was a limited sample size. They were really good with Santos. Kind of strangely good with Post, too. And Post was out there today doing the whole, I'm not afraid of anybody. I'm not afraid of you, LeBron. Talking shit. LeBron was like, what's going on with this guy?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I'm intrigued already.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So we're just putting it up this week. So Monday's podcast will be this weekend. The Saint. Be ready for it. You can watch it as a video on Spotify or you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. And then Sunday night, White Lotus. Season finale, right after it ends, we're going live on Ringer-TV, the YouTube channel that we have.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
A bigger room would be nice.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah, I would say for the spouses, that's probably a better thing. You're getting divorced?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
See, I like the idea of the transfer portal in general because it works for NBA coaches. It works for sports media people.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
All right, here's my last one. Okay. You know, NBA fantasy has just been destroyed. It's the worst. It's been the worst for 15 years. There's too many injuries.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
It sucks. It is like the opposite of fantasy football. And I think it's really hurt basketball because fantasy basketball was fun in the 90s. That's a good take. And then as the years went along, you know, whereas football, you care all the way through, partly through the prism of your fantasy guys. And then you think about the end of the season, guys getting shut down, teams tanking.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, how do you make that more fun? That's impossible. Well, that's why I have NBA injury fantasy league. Okay. So there's all-star break happens. We have our draft and you can draft players that are going to get prematurely shut down, but you could also draft injuries. And you can draft either as the rounds go along. So maybe end up with six players and six injuries.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And then if the player you drafted gets the injury you drafted, you get triple points. These are fake injuries? No, these are the injuries they use. I'll read you some of the injuries that they use to shut down players this year.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Tyrese Maxson, finger tendon.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Zion Williamson, lower back contusion. CJ McCollum, bone contusion in his foot. Paul George, some issues with his left abductor muscle. This is my favorite, Laurie Markkinen, who's missed some time, with patellofemoral nonchondriosis with associated subchondral edema.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But Kaminga against the Lakers has always been interesting because athletically, size-wise, physicality-wise, he can kind of battle and bounce with those dudes. And I always feel like Kerr likes throwing him out there against the Lakers because, you know, Kaminga, the best thing about him is... He's like, oh, LeBron James and I are equals.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
That could be a first round pick.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Darren Fox, extender tendon surgery. So you just, you have like 25 things. 25 kind of fake injuries that you couldn't really, the league couldn't really crack down on, right? Like, oh, lower back stiffness. I guess take, I'll take your word for it. Neck issues.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You draft all those, then you draft all the players in the tanking team and then you try to mix and match and try to, oh, I have Paul George and I had a left abductor muscle. 30 points. And then you go. Half-baked idea. But you can't drop bad injuries. You can't be like torn ACL. No, you can't drop real ones. It's all like the fake ones.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Like corneal irritation. Oh, that's a great pick. I thought I was going to get corneal irritation in the fourth round.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Yeah. It may even be a 5% idea.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Wilds, I had a great time. You can hear Wilds and watch him on First Things First on FS1. Yeah, thank you. Are you traveling for the playoffs? You doing anything?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Say hi to the fans. Say hi to the crew. Great to see you as always. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Mahoney. Thanks, Kevin Wilds. Thanks, Kyle and Saruti and Gahal for producing as always. Don't forget, you can watch this podcast as a video podcast on Spotify and you can watch videos on Bill Simmons YouTube channel.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You can watch me and Joanna and Valerie do the season finale White Lotus instant reaction. Our Prestige TV podcast. We're doing it live on YouTube on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel. And then also this weekend, putting up The Saint, the rewatchables that Kyle Brandt and I did after Val Kilmer passed away. We are just putting that up early because it felt like we could jump ahead three days.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So get ready for that as well. And then Monday night, Celtic City. Catch up on the first five episodes of Celtic City on... Max, episode five was my favorite episode, so we'll see if you dig it. Enjoy the weekend, and I will see you two times on Sunday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You guys didn't realize we're in the same plane in the NBA pyramid.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
So I think I'm a little higher on the Warriors than you, it sounds like, from a ceiling standpoint. I actually really like where they are. What are your hesitations?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, they interviewed JJ before the fourth quarter with Ali LaForse, and he was friendly and curt. I mean, unfriendly and curt. Unfriendly. Yeah. Yeah, he just was like, you could tell he was just really pissed off about how the game was going.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And I was trying to figure out what pissed him off, whether it was like, I can't believe Podzemski, really, he's going to make all those shots, or I don't like something we're doing defensively. Maybe it was a bunch of stuff. The thing that was pretty weird about this game, And again, try not to overreact.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
Well, I'm trying not to now. Okay. Because it's Luka Doncic and he's one of the best players in the world. That's fair. It was a pretty uninspiring performance by him tonight. Um, I'm not really sure what was going on with him. He seemed out of it. He wasn't even like really bitching at the refs as much as usual as he would. Didn't seem upset at anyone on the warriors.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And just in general, it was a, it was a strange performance for him. He was the third best guy on his own team. And arguably the fourth best guy because Rudy was really good tonight, too. And that's the one I thought the Warriors were going to have so much trouble matching up with him. But they seem like they matched up really well with him. He was still doing some good kickout passes. Of course.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
He was throwing his size around, but it just was not your typical Luka game. And LeBron, who started out slow... I think sensed it pretty early and he really came on and was just able to flip this switch and ended up with over 30. But I, so I don't know what to make of the Luca thing. I think the Luca Laker experience has been pretty weird.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
There's been like flashes of just all time, crazy brilliance. Yeah. he'll be amazing and not that great in the same game and up and down. And it seems like he's in better shape than he was defensively. It's still not good. He was really rough tonight. And I'm going to say work in progress, but we've had, this is two plus months now.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
And we are recording our reaction podcast with me and Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson. So you can watch us live on YouTube on Ringer-TV or just wait and watch it as a video podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I will also be doing a Sunday podcast with Rousseau that day as well. We'll see. I'm like LeBron. Can I still play at that kind of pace?
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
One of the things... I agree with you. One of the things I noticed with them, and I'm wondering if the Warriors unlocked it a little bit, because JJ, this team is such a weird team to coach that I think he was doing some math formula stuff with them almost, where it's like, Luca's going to take over the first eight minutes of the game.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
I'm going to play Luca by himself and LeBron and Reeves together. And I'm going to, I'm basically, I'm turning the game into like 10, nine, 10 different segments. And the segments are going to go like this. And then in the fourth quarter, we'll do this. And it felt like the Warriors were kind of ready for all the segments. It's like, oh, we know what you're going to do in the first eight minutes.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
You're going to get Luka going. Well, we're not going to let him get going. And just on and on it kind of went. And the one variable they couldn't really prepare for is LeBron just all of a sudden was just playing great. Yeah, just turning it up.
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes
But I do feel like it's just a little bit gimmicky still with the Lakers, as talented as they are, because to not have rim protection, to play those three guys at the same time, and LeBron has been so much better on defense, but I don't know how sustainable that is when we're playing every other day in the playoffs.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Dan, I have told you, Patrick, I have told Dan this a number of times. It is always better to watch your kid do it than do it yourself. So I am guessing you're totally fine with your son being the best cornerback in the family.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Patrick, I'm wondering what it was like playing for your dad in high school, knowing that you were better than he was.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Patrick Sr., I coached my daughter in lacrosse for like 10 years, and she ended up going to Northwestern. It's like the Alabama of women's lacrosse, okay? And so, Patrick Sr., I am wondering if you did this because I did it all the time. I would go out of my way to yell at my daughter because I wanted to save face with the rest of the team. Did you?
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
Eric Moulds, two times a season. Like, get the hell out of here. What are you doing? You're insulting the man.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
All right.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
For the players.
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)
I officially think Pittsburgh's the best team in the AFC. Come on. You can't after a Jameis game. You can't claim that. I think they're the best team. I feel the safest about them if you start nitpicking all these AFC teams. Really? I feel the most comfortable with Pittsburgh.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Brutal. Listen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I love guy talk. Terrible at his job. Terrible. Should not be working this job.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
When Fabian's like, but like, who's in the booth?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Terrible. So you think like a couple minutes?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Just walks right out. On the one hand, doesn't have the balls. On the other hand, at the White Lotus, like we hear from Fabian later when he's talking to Belinda, you have to be like so delicate with these people. So I think he was trying to give Tim the opportunity to just like leave the gun on the counter and walk away and we can all pretend that this never happened.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
You know, like that kind of handling.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Yeah. Mallory, I know you related to several people inside of this episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I'm so excited to talk to you about it. In frankly shocking fashion. What does that mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Did you relate to Fabian when he said, I have antacid if your stomach upset, I get digestion issue when I'm nervous. I did.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Lorazepam. She's going to have to drink herself to sleep.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
With apparently withdrawals from lorazepam are like intensive and kind of immediate. So I don't know what's going to happen to Vicky over the next couple of days because she was like chewing those things down. By the way, I also found out that apparently lorazepam is sweet and just dissolves on your tongue. So we don't have to worry about Tim taking them dry.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
They're just a sweet little candy. I'd like to apologize to Tim Rattler for that and that alone.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Incredible Parker Posey stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Bill Clinton wrote books. Hillary Clinton wrote five books. The list goes on. That just absolutely killed me. No, but everything she's... She thinks they're in Taiwan. That was a revelation. It's insane. But when... Piper says, okay, I lied to you. I'm not here for my thesis. I'm here to check out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She says, the reason I wanted to come here was to check it out, and I did. And I really like it. Piper, you briefly walked through the monastery once. What do you mean you checked it out and you liked it? Literally the equivalent of watching one Instagram reel. Yeah, exactly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Shelter girls like you are constantly getting brainwashed and turned out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Someone needs to take Vicky's like the Netflix documentaries away from Vicky. Yeah, absolutely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I was going to say that's a class. It sounds like Vicky should have a podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Mike White, son of a son of a preacher. But like, you know, the Catholics, I guess, are. Open season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Also, yeah, I think the one extra layer of that is that I think also she's right. That's what I think is also true about Vicky here. Not that they're in Taiwan, obviously. And not that you can't explore Buddhism or whatever, but the fact that Piper has not put enough thought into this. Yeah, for sure. Yes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Have you been enjoying the clip of Parker Posey from like It's Good Morning America or whatever? I saw that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She's like, hopper. No. Buddhism. Yeah. It's great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think everyone has come all the way back around on all of the accent work on this show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Something that, yeah, something that Jason Isaac said on the official podcast, he was talking about how, first of all, Piper is his favorite child. Clearly. Is Tim's favorite. Yeah. That he, that she can do no wrong, that anything she wants, she's like the princess, she can have whatever she wants, which is, by the way, what Saxon accused her of earlier. Yep. And then also that like,
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
All of this is bullshit. He's like, she's not staying here. Saxon's not going back to the office. Like none of, nothing is happening for them in the future as far as Tim is concerned right now. But here's my question for you. And Rob and I did talk about this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
On a show like White Lotus where there's never consequences for the extremely rich, do you think there's a possibility that this whole thing hounding Tim just like blows over before the season's over?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I don't know. I just like, Mike White just like really likes to let rich people off the hook as a commentary for the fact that rich people get off the hook all the time. So, you know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I like it. To, like, watch him spin out for a week and then nothing happens.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
We heard from a lot of listeners that occasionally, apparently most men in the UK are not circumcised. So we got a lot of emails saying that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No, stunt case.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Oh, interesting. However, Mallory has a counter move, which is... Jason Isaacs is a Jewish man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
You guys go and I'll tell you the answer. Okay, so... The episode four has aired. I just want to say really quickly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I just want to say really quickly. Thank you for that. I just want to say really quickly. The amount of restraint that we have shown for the sake of content, not asking you right away what the answer was, but said, reveal it on the pod, Bill. We've been very patient.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah. Devastating. Geez. Thanks for doing that research though, Bill. I really appreciate you getting to the bottom of things. What does that go big or go home quote mean then? What is that about? It's been a prosthetic every season, right? It was prosthetic for Steve Zahn and Steve Zahn. Yeah, exactly.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, you really were. However, Vlad in this episode... Right. That's got to be real. That thing was swinging.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Or do you actually have to hold your dick to shake it? I cannot wait to see what your husband texts you about this episode. And my question is, is next week finally going to be the episode where Mallory doesn't make hand gestures? I mean, it depends on what, you know, the show gives us to work with.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
It went exactly how we said from the beginning, which is that Jacqueline was going to push Valentin on Laurie and then fuck him herself. A number of episode one predictions bore fruit here in episode five.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That really made me laugh. Honestly, he's really great. I'm really obsessed with your, like, Arnold Schwarzenegger Russian accent. It's just the same accent for all countries.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Oh, CrossFit. Should we?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I wouldn't die. Okay, I have multiple things about this. First of all, I think underrated greatness actually is Leslie Bibb's terrible dancing. Oh my God, the face. Skate.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Great stuff. Carrie Coon, great dancer. There are some moves that were a little like... Julia Stiles saved the last dance little like top that teen witch.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
A little like. Yeah. White girl hip hop. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No, she felt judged by them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She's like, yeah. No, she was like, they were like looking and like laughing and stuff like that. It was very much like Jacqueline at the retiree pool is the way those girls were looking at her. And so then she was just like, yeah, it's like, look at those old women dancing with those guys.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And so she just, yeah, she just like smeared herself on Alexi and on, and grabbed Valentin to be like, I'm hot and I deserve to be out here. That was my interpretation of what that was.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Also Galaxy Quest. Yeah. Incredible Galaxy Quest.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Especially when they were like pressuring Kate.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
deeply relate. I think we should just go to bed. Time to go to bed. Mallory and I were like, that's us. And she's, she's lodging her objections. She's like, should we just call it a night? Like, haven't we done enough? And Jacqueline doesn't even dignify this with a response or a conversation because Jacqueline's like, this is my vacation and you're just my sidekicks.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
So whatever I want to have happen is what's going to happen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Sure.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Jacqueline, who is, like, passed out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Well, I think they said it was their friend who was fighting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
First of all, I want to say, Alexi, I'm really disappointed because I think he promised us that snake tattoo went all the way down.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And he absolutely did not.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Their word is trash.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Barely anywhere. But as you mentioned their muscles, I looked it up. Julian, who plays Alexi, Julian Kostov, holds over 60 medals as a professional swimmer, including a bronze medal at the Balkan Games 2007. And then Arnas, who plays Valentin. Is that on WB?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No, he has a supporting actor Oscar. Mike White once again mining the supporting actor field for... He goes on Wiki and just looks at the supporting categories.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I would watch the Vulcan games. That sounds interesting to me. And Ernest, who plays Valentin, is a boxer. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I loved this, actually.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think he's just like, this is, okay, we met all those criminals on the yacht and their young girlfriends. This is the idea that this is a haven for criminal activity. People who are criminals who are escaping the repercussions come to the White Lotus.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He's like, yeah, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No, no, I think he's just like... He just doesn't want anything to be ruffled. He's like, you might be mistaken. We shouldn't be gossiping about guests. P.S. He's not a guest, but okay, Fabian. Yeah. Some of the guests have colorful pasts, right? So it's just like... But then he ends it with, I think you'll survive.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That very insidious evil where he's not like a villain villain. He just wants everything to be calm and does not want to ruffle any feathers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Who's next? But yeah, I think this is a perfect casting because you can definitely... Sam Rockwell and Wong Goggins feel like they're just pals. And we mentioned before that Sam Rockwell... That Leslie Bibb is his partner. So it's just like couples that film in Thailand together. Stay together? I don't know. What a fun family excursion for them. Chamomile tea and pajamas at the pool party.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Something didn't sit right with him. It doesn't help that this guy recently played a notorious film Nazi, right? Oh, interesting. That vibe doesn't help. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But I also just love when she was like, blah, blah, Greg, and he's like, Gary? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But on a scale of one to ten, how is there might be a murderer after me? There's a giant lizard in my...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Great. Finally. Just brothers being brothers. Brotherly love.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Correct.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She likes that innocent look and how they shake. Little rabbits.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She's a riot. She's great. I'm a fresh breeze, baby. Mere hours before he's going to smooch his brother.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
What's worse?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Another death. Well, it's two things.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He could kill her.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But that line was about Chelsea. Yeah. She was like, you're a romantic. Every model that I knew was a romantic wound up broke or broken hearted or dead.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's not my take on Chelsea at all. You think she's materialistic?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think even if he's in the rest of the season, he can go for the guest actor, which is the easier one to get and what he should go for.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think that we have a broken hearted or worse than she was like, what's worse? What's worse than being broken hearted?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I just think I really do think that Chelsea's motivation is like this hippie soul connection.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I was going to say. Yeah, it's a Gretzky. What's that one? Very sporty. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Yeah. That's a sports quote. Sure is. And I knew it. Just wanted everyone to know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's Buddhism.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No. No.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Favorite moment. That was great. That's the sort of my understanding. Please do email me if I get Buddhism wrong. But like the idea of Buddhism is every life you purify yourself towards nirvana. So the idea is like, each time, sort of like quantum leap, you're trying to be a better, like each time you're trying to be a better person.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I think if I had to guess, I don't know. I would say he's in like two, three, but he's not coming back to the White Lotus with them. This is a character that stays in Bangkok. So if Rick's coming back to the White Lotus, I don't think he's coming with them.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Just one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Here's what I thought was like the most, there's a lot of telling three. And which one are you on?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Which one are you on? That sounds kind of nice.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I feel like I'm also on my second.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
One more to go.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
One day I'm going to take you down is what Lachlan says to Saxon. Yeah. And there's something in their dynamic that is just sort of like he is attracted to his brother. I think we've known that since episode one in its own way. But also like
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
hates his brother do you know like that's in the mix this idea of like I want to be you I want to have sex with you possibly and also it's a very White Lotus sort of like Jackie Shawna thing and also just like I hate you you're constantly tormenting me at the same time you know
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I was going to ask a creepy question about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Big dog on the space cat. Space cat is the name of the boat, but he of course is the big dog.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
160 K a week to charter the space cat.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Just spinning out of control sort of thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Should have hung up with them. Instead, she wanted to tell them what a badass lawyer she is. That was amazing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He gets to play the director.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Before she went to scratch her ass and snore a little bit. The dance. She was like feeling herself so much. It was very sad. It really sucks. Jacqueline sucks. She does.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Is this where the night ends? That's my question.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Googling HBO incest moments. I didn't have to Google any of it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But Lockie goes back in for the longest.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I usually hate these exercises, but I will say this. If the genders are switched in this scene, this is like one of the most horrific things. If a girl was, like, rubbing her eyes and drugged out of her mind and there were two guys on the couch laughing and sort of, like, cheering and all this like that, that is horrifying. This is horrifying.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Like, it's... It's, like... And I like that... I don't like it, but I like that a character like Saxon, a character...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Here's my main question, because I actually have no doubt in my mind that some upsetting combination of people are about to have sex on this boat. Schwarzenegger posted a great thing on Twitter where it's like him and Sam DiBolo who plays Lachlan. It's just the two of them. He's like, what bad could happen on a boat? Hmm. The question... Actually, my question right now is, is Chelsea involved?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Because I would like Chelsea to not be involved. You know what I mean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Because, like, Chelsea... I would like no one to be involved. I would clearly not like brothers to have sex on the boat or whatever. Yeah, let's go to bed.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Kate was right. Kate is always not. Maybe not about the election. Not about the election.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But I think that like Chelsea, Chelsea calling Rick and him not picking up and then Rick calling Chelsea and her not picking up. That shot is so good when, like, it's the phone. And then, like, Chloe's, like, legs in the air and stuff like that. But, like, is Chelsea going to do something she regrets on this boat?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Well, that's where the stakes are high.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Mike White thinks it's... Was it? No. Who was it then? Definitely not. Who was it? Probably Quinn. Mike White thinks it's Belinda this season. That's who he says is the moral compass. What? No, it wasn't.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She goes back to Jane. She went back to her husband who she didn't love because she... Felt bad for her. Well, sure. I felt bad for her until she went back to Shane.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But then I lose my- That's going to be Chelsea. Maybe. Wow. Maybe.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And we go.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yep. I am her and I am fucking me.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Definitely back. Gives him the bag with the gun. Yeah. Yeah. Has to play the director in the con.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But it's up there. No, I mean it. And also just visually a very, very cool shot. I was just talking to our pal Sean fantasy. in the hall about like the visuals of White Lotus this season. I think this episode in particular. Did he mention anything about color grading? He didn't, but you know, I could tell that he wanted to.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Well, so when he was, yeah, when he was talking to Sitala back when he was originally starting his con, he's like, I got a friend who's a director in Bangkok.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, absolutely.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Wow. Well, no, no, but he lost his identity because, like, his identity was, I'm a big swinging dick, I'm, like, the provider, I'm the dad, I'm... leader at the club, I'm a pillar of the community, I cover his lineage, and now I'm nothing. I'm poor, I'm broke.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
She said, just come on in. That's what she said. She said, just come straight to the villa. Yeah. And she has an overnight guest.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
They used to party together. Yeah. They used to party wild together.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Oh, no. No home base.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No, but like all of the color, the neons, the like flashing lights in the full moon party and the pool party. I don't know what their light system was. at the pool party, but it looked amazing. But in that scene, in the Goggins-Rockwell scene, there's, like, this wide shot where they're all sort of, like, doubled exposure on top of each other. On the mirror. Yeah. That was really cool.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
This and that. This and that. Okay, yeah. So Sam Rockwell's Californian. And I was just curious. Walton Goggins, Southern boy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Shock and like not dismay, but like shock people. Shock people with two brothers kissing. Shock people with this monologue from Sam Rockwell. And I'm still trying to figure out like I love this show. I'm still trying to figure out what it is Mike White is trying to do with this. Like he's given interviews about it, but like this idea that he wants to make queer sex transgressive and shocking.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I still don't fully understand what his motivation is behind it, but that is something that he wants. What do you call it? Borderline edgelord mentality is what he called it about himself. And so I just think that's provoking.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Am I the son of a vague do-gooder, like this sort of thing? Am I the son of Jim Hollinger, something that he might discover when he comes face-to-face with him? Or can I choose to be something else, which is what Amrita was suggesting to him. It's like, you can break this karmic cycle. You don't have to do this right now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I definitely think that's true.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But also that gun is in that room. I think it's also really interesting that like he, both he and Chelsea have this like, Chelsea has a speech to Chloe where she's like, Rick is always walking around like a sad sack, like everything, you know, she's like, bad things have happened to me. You don't see me walking around complaining about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
First of all, we don't know anything about Chelsea's life at all.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
So, like, what did happen to her? And also, she's throwing herself a little bit of a pity party in that moment while she's saying, you don't see me complaining at all. She's complaining right now. And then we see Tim here at the end of the episode be like, I've had all this pressure on me my whole life. There's never been a minute where I haven't been expected to, you know, achieve. From day one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That was a really cool shot. That was awesome.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, from day one. And it's just sort of like, my God, this lack of self-awareness running around.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Well, this is the theme of a lot of the visions we've seen in the opening credits of like, Vulnerable animals actually becoming like sort of predators, which I think is interesting. And then the predator becoming the prey.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
So if you think about like Saxon in his sort of like alpha predator mode at the beginning of the season and then like he's just stumbling around bleary eyed saying don't take advantage of me inside of this episode. I think that's really interesting and upsetting. And I am very nervous. Can I run one theory by you that I think is interesting?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. It's a shootout. Yeah. Let's say it's not monkeys. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
What if Belinda- Gets in touch with Interpol. I don't know how, but like calls the authorities on Greg Gary.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Tim thinks the authorities are there for him. The feds are there for him. Rick thinks the authorities are there for him because of whatever happens in Bangkok. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
A day and another day or two for them to show up. My theory is a theory that's floating around. But I like this idea of the authority.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I was really impressed. I like the theory that the authority show up and there's so many different people who could be like, oh, shit. Right. The feds are here.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yep. All the expats on the yacht. Oh yeah, the Russians could be like, oh no, the cops are here because we smashed and grabbed the boutique.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That the fancies are going to.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Oh, what is it? Triangle of trust?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
It's been demolished.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
We talked about this earlier, this idea of, like, is Rick open to some sort of spiritual awakening? Is Tim open to some sort of spiritual awakening?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, but, like, is Tim Ratliff the last person on our list? Well, actually, Saxon's my last, but he was, like, the second-to-last person on my list of someone who might have a spiritual awakening at the White Lotus. Is he about to have some sort of moment?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
No.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Greg Gary, who did a murder.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Sure. Who's your least redeemable White Lotus character?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But also Chelsea and Chloe are right there.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
To be like, here's your gun. Bye. Like, that's not what this is. Another Chekhov's gun has entered the chat. Yeah, yeah. In a really nice leather duffel. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I still could make that choice. My thing on this is like, If they go further than this, if we get a Challengers or an Ito Mama Tambien sort of situation, there is no coming. That is with you for the rest of your life. Because those two things you mentioned are not brothers. Right. They're transgressive in their own right, but it's not two brothers. Very close friends. Yeah. Very close friends.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Matching men. Let's do matching men.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Fight Night's a really good call. I think I love a con personally. So whatever that's going to be. And I love Scott Glenn. So.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's what you want to know. And Tim. You're just dying for a monastery tour.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Yeah, I will say we can get to this later if we want to. But when he was like, I looked great. I was like, have we ever seen Sam Rockwell in drag before? And I couldn't find anything. But Walton Goggins, of course, like very famously was in drag for his appearance on Sons of Anarchy. played this great character, Venus Van Damme.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Looked amazing, actually. And I was just like, Sam, I would like you to put your money where your mouth is. Again, we have three episodes left. I would like to see the evidence.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Can I float a theory by you? Yeah. Well... Rob and I were talking about this about in previous seasons of White Lotus with Armand and Tanya, we never have a character who dies who has like strong emotional attachments to other characters because you don't want to end the White Lotus season on like a grieving family. That's not something they've ever done before.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
You've never had anyone at the airport montage at the end like actively majorly grieving. Right. So will he do something different this season? Maybe. But if any of the Ratliffs died, if Rick or Chelsea died, that would be such a bummer note to end a season that is usually sort of like tragicomic.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Oh, in terms of the opening. Yeah, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Daphne. Daphne.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Right.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
You think everyone dies at the end of the season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Or Greg Gary does.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I disagree with both of you. I think Piper... is going to decide she wants to live with privilege. She's going to fall back in with her family. That's what happens on White Lotus. She doesn't want to be a Buddhist.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
But he didn't start as the rebel.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
That's true.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
I know. He couldn't jack it. So that once a 16-year-old loses their porn iPad. So did Lachlan. Lachlan lost his iPad. So that was my second thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Who am I? What should I do?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
This idea that like the whole Sam Rockwell monologue is, a lost person trying to figure out who they are. Who am I? And where can I find that? Can I find it having sex with thousands of women, dressing up differently, or Buddhism and sobriety, I guess. And then Tim Ratliff... Who's praying to his Christian God at the end of this episode wants to know, what should I do?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Which is like a callback to what Saxon said earlier, where there's like two kinds of people in this world. They're people who just want to be told what to do. And so like, who am I? What should I do? These are the big questions. These are what we search for answers for inside of spirituality. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
He ended up on the other side of that guidance. He usually is the drug. I don't need drugs. I am the drug.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
Well, yeah, just Jacqueline being a person who needs to feel vital, young, have attention. But this is something you think he's trying to say something bigger with that?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And I think also, I really agree with you. And I think also this idea that at the White Lotus, when you're at the White Lotus, you have achieved so much luxury. You have had so many desires in your life fulfilled. Every desire you could possibly want is probably filled. And how existential, how lost are you when that happens to you? How lost are so many of these privileged people?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse
And so for Jacqueline, who has so much to just need that much more, or for Sam Rockwell to have like, fucked his way through Bangkok. And he's just like, and yet I need more. I feel hollow. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So you're convinced every time there's somebody on the phone it's a famous actor or actress?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We'll take a break. Then we're going to rip through the episode. We open with a Parker Posey dream sequence.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
this is what it looks like before a tsunami.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And then Lockie's there with like, Lockie's there.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Then she wakes up
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Husbands on the balcony having urgent... I just don't think she's curious enough as a spouse. I don't care how many secrets you're burying in a marriage. You're going to notice when it hits this kind of tipping point where there's something clearly horrible happening.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But it's not even a question. Something's clearly going on.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Is the show now self-aware that we're going to become attached and concerned for the characters, and now that's why six are in play?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So apparently it's a certain, Dave was telling me about it today when I did the thing with him. It's a certain Southern draw, but there's like a weird British piece
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's a big passion point for the cast, I think, that they actually spent an incredible amount of time figuring this out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So I don't think it's as simple as like if it was a Boston or a Rhode Island accent where I would just be like, that's not right. Nothing simple about a Rhode Island accent.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Wow. They played the card this episode, that's for sure. By the way, they said it was at the next resort over.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Or just ends with a tsunami. Everyone just gets wiped out. And then everyone dies in a tsunami. Except Naomi Watts, who manages to hold on to a piece of glass. And Tom Holland. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Well, at the family breakfast, we get stuff like... Dude, these breakfasts look great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I have never seen such lush colors.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm just deeply compelled. This is why Mallory and I can't be on White Lotus, because in this breakfast, we're getting stuff like dreams might not predict the future, but they're a window into something. Yeah. We all dream about fires. Mallory and I would just be like... Where's the half and half? We just wouldn't be coherent for like a half hour until the coffee kicks in.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
These people are just having full philosophical conversations.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And Lori's like, you got nothing but time.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You got nothing but time. Probably the best backhanded compliment of the series so far.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Wild stuff. The dad's on Robin, can't stop looking at his phone. We find out the FBI's in his office with a warrant.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I wrote down... This is a pretty great, my life is falling apart in slow motion sequence for a TV show that I can't remember who else did anything like this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, think about him in the first episode where he's like this aggro, like just, I've seen this guy in a TV show and then by the end of the third episode, he's a sleeping pill chugging fucking maniac.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's a good point. Who survived the shower camp shot? I don't think so. Yeah, nobody.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, now that you've apologized about your feelings on his accent.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So you go Isaac Emmy corner number one right now. Over Goggins?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think Goggins is... But I think... Goggins has shown more stuff already in three episodes. He's done... I don't know.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Snake Goggins.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Astonishing stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So I interpreted it completely different than you. Tell me. The Tim Ratliff and the son. I think the whole thing, it's like, this is the classic, yeah, you're going to take over the business, but the son really has nothing to do. He said multiple times.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like, I don't like, yeah, but the office needs me and it made him feel important. Oh, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He says, you're going to have a phenomenal career. I can see it. I know it. There's literally no evidence other than that your son's a jackass. But if all of this father-son stuff feels really fake and like, I had this company, my son, whatever, I'm going to shoehorn him in. And it's funny because he's nipple babying.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But Patrick Schwarzenegger, who we talked about, and that kind of became a little bit of a story this week with the nipple baby thing. I just think he's really good.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And as we talked about in a previous episode, he's half Arnold, who's a performer and a charismatic guy. It makes sense to me he would be a good actor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Your own reality. But the son has no insight in the business was the thing that became clear. But he loves to work.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like if we were all hanging out doing like a ringer retreat and the whole day I was just on my phone freaking out and you were like, can I help? Can I help? And I was just like, like there's some sort of power move with that. That it's like, I don't even want to discuss what's going on here. You can't help. That's why the Sonny's got some fake office on the side and he's not doing anything.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think all this shit's intentional.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I just think Piper Ratliff sounds like the perfect rich kid name.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Although we did call him Saxton with a T for half of one episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think Joanna started it and then I took it around with it. I won't. Except for him. Well, we also have Lockheed shows the data tsunami video and Saxon got a blender. That was our big things.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Mentioning it. Yeah. Another character mentioning, well, you've had two near-death experiences already.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Nobody's been more excited to get a blender. He's fucking jacked.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think Pam is in the running for most underrated performance of the season. I love Pam. Incredible. She's perfect at that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
okay yeah since the beginning how wonderful for you how wonderful for you when she looks in the bag yeah this isn't even that much right carrot when she has the stare down of him like are you gonna put your phone in there that was great you know so I had some nitpicks with that okay what do you got people didn't turn off their phones first thing you're doing is turning off the phone oh yeah
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Not just so it's turned off, but also for the battery.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Tim's using a 2012 Samsung. I don't know what phone that was. Not only was it not an iPhone, but I don't know what that was.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
What's the iPhone rule?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, the feds come shoot out with the dad?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I just want to say there's no scenario where I give up my phone for five days.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Literally none.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
There's no vacation scenario that exists where I would be like, yep, no phone five days.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, Mal, I like this. So he breaks in, but then there's something else in there.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, my gosh.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Is it Guy Talk or Gay Talk? Was I saying that wrong? I think it's Guy Talk. I think it's Guy Talk. We were all saying it wrong.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I mean, Guy Talk.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Sitala. Sitala.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, we had Goggins, the matron.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I have a guy in Bangkok. You're going to be in Bangkok? Yeah. Would you love a meeting?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So Stevie Nicks oversprings. She's doing it. I'm probably, if you want to do our, I wasn't going to start the pot this way, but as well, our most worried about character power rankings. Sure. Gay talk's number one for me. I just feel like he's going to be dead unless, not a spoiler alert because everyone's seen episode three, unless he's involved in the robbery. Oh, no.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm going to keep calling her the matron. That's fine.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I feel like I'm in the right group for this question. So Ares and a Scorpio. Did either of you have thoughts on this?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
How big of a horoscope person are you?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I feel like Joanna could be stealthy in a tiny bit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm always jealous of the horoscope people. I feel like they do have this extra perspective.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm Libra, which I'm like a classic Libra apparently. I'm a Virgo. What does that do?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Very susceptible to germs.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
A lot of postmates orders.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Creative and passionate.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the thing about these horror, like I miss being whatever the next one was by like a day.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It was like one of those. Or maybe like I was a day into, it could have been like one day earlier, all of a sudden I'm like a different sign. Yeah, you would have been a Virgo.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was also year of the cock. Hell yeah. On the Chinese food menu.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, there you go. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You're the cock Libra.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The fancies get off for time with the energy healer, which they steer toward our girl Carrie Coon.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So what's her game plan? She just wants Lori to get laid? I don't understand. Why is she pushing this so hard?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And they're doing a nice little end around with him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
More plots.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So we're calling it guy talk now?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Okay. And MOOC?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
FanDuel Parlay, where they'll do this with sports bets where they'll be like, you can have Saquon Barkley and somebody else to score a touchdown. And if one of them scores, you win the bet. I would do that with Guy Talk and Mook. So you don't believe in star-crossed lovers? This is not the Mike White universe that I inhabit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Rob's got good radar for this stuff. I don't know. That might be a good take.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, that's a compliment.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's hard to step out of the creeps.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I just want to say creep radar would be an incredible podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Just Creep Radar once a week. It's like, all right, Creep Radar.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Let's dive into Patrick Schwarzenegger. I'm voting no.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Creep Radar.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Post-COVID Creep Apex.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Nobody knows. Lockie and Saxon by the pool. Oh, man. Makes them drink the energy drink. Says, don't you want the big dogs to respect you? You want to be neurotic your whole life and end up a virgin?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Nailed it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Gym cell.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Gym cell. Incredible stuff. That's great. That sounds like another Ringer podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Gym cell corner.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Gym cell is really good. Talk to her about it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Gym cell.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, I like that you used Greg Gary. Thank you. Been trying to get that going all podcast.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He had a great laugh in this scene when, I don't know, I just, I really enjoyed Patrick Schwartz saying it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And he just was like, ha, ha, ha. But it was, like, genuine. I don't know. I think he's doing a good job. He is. Little stare down with Chloe. Oh, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Gagging therapy session really quick. I've done a lot of bad things. I've made a lot of mistakes. Says his father was murdered. I can't get my life back. Maybe I can still get some satisfaction. How did you interpret this, Joe?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Which is sad because we all like Chloe.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, Chelsea. I know. That's the whole thing.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Which is Chelsea who rules. You guys are fine, Rick.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Right. Totally forgave him immediately.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
There's some deep shit going on with him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Sometimes people can just feel like they're broken and that's it. And they're just like, I've now latched on to my brokenness and that's just the way I am.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Did you just use the character's name?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, that was really impressive. The therapist, would you call her Amarita? She was saying Amarita, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't know any characters' names. It takes me like four episodes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm for the common people.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'm calling Carrie Coon, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Tall lady.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Rick's probably our best hope.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The daughter.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I just did it again. I didn't call her by her name. I called her the daughter. But you knew what I was saying instinctively. Piper feels like she's— But we know she has a big appointment on Friday.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Listen, smart move by her to get away from the rat lifts.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's like, oh, my close relationships with my brother who asked me about my sex life, my date-rapey older brother, my crazy mother, and my dad who's just completely unraveling. I'm going to stay here.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
iPad Quinn? Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And now he's in Gladiator 2. It's like CR on the beach.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Or state of mind. Yeah. And sometimes they leave because they fell off the boat, landed on their head and drowned.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's another way to go. Energy session with Lori. And then we also had the corrective posture session with Lockie. So I really spent a lot of time thinking about this. And it was going to be a Google deep dive. Maybe I'll do it this week. The defensive position. Left foot on your knee. You're protecting yourself with your female side. I don't know if this is true. Sometimes like I have a bad back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find House of R. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Sometimes it's easier for me to throw a foot on one leg or the other. Like we do the live podcast. I got to keep my iPad up. So I don't know. I immediately got defensive. I got in a defensive sitting posture. Hearing that. Listening to him talk about posture. Okay. So now I don't want to do that rabbit hole. But do you guys believe in defensive postures? I know this is defensive if you do this.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's defensive. I do that sometimes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Fair. Which is basically what he said. Are there defensive standing postures?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like hands in your pockets?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, the guy basically said Lockheed sat like a loser. That was his therapy session. It's like everything you're doing isn't working, buddy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Just what an 18-year-old wants to hear who's struggling with his sexuality.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was just about to dive into her.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She thinks Greg's wife killed herself by walking in the ocean. Which, by the way, if somebody said that, what happened to your ex-wife committed suicide by walking into an ocean?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But also, why would he tell her anything?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, it's his fault because he's staying at Away Lotus. Absolutely. I mean, we covered that last episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So. I thought that was the best acting of the show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, Greg Gary's kind of very hidden double take where he's like, you could just see for like a split second, his eyes bulging out. And then he got his shit together.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I have a Greg Gary present for you guys.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's the best high in the world. Oh, believe me, it's not the best high in the world. That's like 30 plus years ago. Just don't trust Craig Gary when you see him in anything. John Grease?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Called out by the other bodyguards as a wuss. He's got to prove his manhood a little bit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Has he ever been trustworthy ever?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's the one. Chelsea and Rick get high and go to a snake show. How'd you feel about this? This is the weirdest sequence in the show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I mean, I think the answer to this for pretty much everybody is no. But do you guys like snakes? Because I don't like snakes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And I'm in Thailand.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Snake show is an immediate no thank you. It's a no.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
This is the calm before the storm episode, literally, because they're going on a boat. And I think this was just establishing snake fire and tsunami. I think they're trying to tell us all bets are off.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
They're not free.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But these are two pretty dramatic vacation events. Like if you went on a vacation, you'd be like, hear about what happened to Mal in Thailand. She was in a store and there was a huge robbery and she almost got shot. Like, oh my God. And it's like, hear about Mal in Thailand. She went to a snake show. She got bit by a snake. And I'll be like, absolutely not. Mal did not go to a snake show. Oh, man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Great. Those are two crazy things to happen.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, Chelsea got bit. That was a very well done, tense scene.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Just all the snakes. It's like, oh, God, I'm not enjoying this. But, you know, it was definitely weird. Rick got one of the sleeping pills.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He was also upset after the robbery.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Tim ate a sleeping pill. There's a double date with Greg Gary. He's invited over on the boat tomorrow. And then the fancy cougar dinner. Let's dive into it. All right. After this break. All right. The fancies are out to dinner. Carrie Coon hasn't been touched by a man like that in some time. Hasn't been not touched.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You know what's funny? People don't believe that.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But here's what we learned about Leslie Bibb's character. What's her name on the show? Kate. Kate. Not a new age person.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She's a church going Texas lady.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
There's no question. Did you vote for Trump? Well...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Silent, smiling, MAGA conservative Texas lady.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I have no interest in watching ahead. People in my life who know me and allegedly either like me or love me are like, no, you're watching ahead. Come on.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's the no trust triangle.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I actually thought this was my favorite scene in the episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I love their reactions.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. They're like, because that now we're going back to, we all grew up together. I thought we would all think the same about everything. It's like, clearly this lady is a lot different than you two.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Husband sounds great. Sounds like a fun hang. Love to go to a Cowboys game with him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. Sounds like a connected dude.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Wish we'd seen him last week in Texas. Could have taken us out.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, there's no chance. Let's start planning that Austin trip.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, right. All right. So what are the lessons? They don't really talk that much.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It's probably like some tech stuff. How you doing, honey? So good. Saw that Instagram photo. You look so great. It's like all surface fake shit.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
They were editing it during the election.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You guys studied the trailer. I did not study the trailer. I haven't watched the trailer. At all. I feel like that's cheating.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We don't watch the news.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I loved how they did it because it wasn't necessarily political, but it was about how something like this is such a great little window into the fact that the three of them don't really know each other.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Or like she could have pulled out like a giant thing of cocaine and just started like banging it out. And they would be like, whoa, you're doing that now? Like it's on that level of like, I didn't realize you're this now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Or it's a habit, the same way cocaine is, where it's like, I'm in Texas.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, bumping churches.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You guys are still doing that one, right? Yeah, we're cranking it out. That's what we do.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
She's like, and I like Theo Vaughn.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
What's up, sweetheart?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Anyway, I love this scene. Yeah, it was really good. And then Belinda, who for the most part was a snore fest with her scenes until she decided, I'm going to go see if that's actually Greg. And she's probably getting it. I think she's in the murder rankings.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That's where they landed on. Doing the interview today, I forgot how haphazardly they put together season one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Make a show on COVID. They're still figuring out the show as they're doing it. They have to go back and refilm some of the ending and they assume it's a one and done. And then by season three now, this is like, this show might be on eight seasons. Like, so, Greg Gary becoming like the serial killer of White Lotus. Like, I'm not against it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I know, That's true. He's the only one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Does he better on the boat?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But what if she what if she finds out day of it's like, we're all going on the boat. You should come.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It could be Greg Gary in the closet.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Guy talk, is he getting fired?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We have that plot. No. That plot's looming.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We have Saxon going on the yacht, hopefully having sex with Chloe, which I'll enjoy that whole subplot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And Greg Gary to find out and be pissed off.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I would say yachts are the single most important property in any HBO show.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Succession. Sopranos, which you didn't watch. The Game of Thrones. Did they have yachts in the 1300s or no? They did. They had some yachts.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Some incest. Then White Lotus. We've had multiple yacht stuff. We had the cliffhanger in season, or not cliffhanger, the end of season two.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was thinking I really miss Succession.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I just miss it. I hope another show pops on that I enjoyed as much as that one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Snakes fire, monkeys, tsunamis, tsunami videos. A toilet snake? Watch this guy just stand here on the beach as the tsunami overtakes him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
No, I love White Lotus. But White Lotus, the characters change every year. The succession. Because I was thinking with the yacht, I was thinking of some of those Some of those yacht scenes they had in Succession were so great.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I feel like after five years, everyone's just going to look at each other and go, fuck it. Let's bring this thing back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Sounds like a great scene.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, we know that's going to be a theme. Last thing, we didn't talk about Rick and Chelsea when she said, you released a bunch of venomous snakes today. You're fucking deranged. Snakes are evil. Read the Bible. Evil things shouldn't be treated like shit. It only makes them more evil.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So we're just... Snakes are evil.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Snakes are evil and cats are kind of deep down evil. Well, deep down.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Deep down.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Deep down.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Some of my favorite Instagram videos are cats just fucking with dogs and little kids, which backs my point.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, Tim's like, I would sign up for that right now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Cats have a dark side.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Cats have a dark side. We all know. And then things are closing in on Tim Ratliff is where we leave the episode. Boy, are they. He doesn't do drugs. To a major way.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
MVP of the episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think it's Goggins. I have Goggins.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So lorazepam, can you walk me through how powerful this is? Is this basically... Why are you both looking at me? Well, because you know the name of the pill.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Is it like an elephant tranquilizer type of sleeping pill?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Because obviously Parker Posey has been chugging them down every night and is like half immune to them at this point.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But people like the mushroom scene, which I stay out of because I'm terrible at drugs, as Mallory knows.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, now you know too. I'm just bad at drugs. It's fine. I have a lot of strengths and I have some weaknesses.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Horoscope info. Yeah. But the mushroom where some people can be like, oh, I'll do a 10 milligram or I'll do a double. And then other people can do like a single and they're completely demolished for the rest of the night. I would imagine sleeping pills works like that too. You can develop like a weird tolerance for it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think that's the season.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
That was the Jalem Rose corollary. Jalem Rose, my friend who's like six, eight and a half. And he's drinking wine and it's just like he's just... It's just going to take more wine to knock him sideways. So if you get a bottle with him and you have two glasses and he has two glasses, it's like he's had half a glass. Yeah. Because he's just got... You know, it's got more height to play with.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
MVP, so we split on Goggins. Yeah. Predictions. I don't want to step on you and Rob, but predictions for episode four. We know we're going on a yacht.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
This felt like a transition episode to me, and I feel like episode four is going to be a massive episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think Rick goes to Bangkok, which means we get Chelsea...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think so too. Either she sees something she shouldn't see or she flirts with somebody she shouldn't flirt with.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. By the time people hear this, I think that will have already run. But Dave Bernard with the EP of it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, rich people can be trashy.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So who's on the boat? Let's figure this out. The Doubleday crew's on the boat.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Saxon's on the boat. That's five.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So three plus Saxon.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But it's possible it's just the four of them with Saxon in the Rick spot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I can't wait to go on the boat with this crew.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Something bad's going to happen. All right, that's it for episode three, right? Anything else?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He said this whole season came out of like this fever dream Mike White had. In the hospital. In the hospital.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Snakes.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The fact that cats have a dark side. You have to admit cats have a dark side.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
But Halo, would Halo kill a mouse if it was in your house?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Cats are predators.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't really like mice, but we did have a- Would you kill a mouse if it was in your house, Bill? The most interesting thing, would I kill it? No, I would try to scoop it outside.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Just for karma points.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Like a magazine? I was dating a girl once. We were staying at her parents' house, and I went down to get water, and I heard this weird sound. And it was their cat was in the foyer, had a mouse cornered and was just like slowing in. It wasn't just like, I'm killing the mouse. It was like, I'm really going to enjoy this next five minutes before I kill them. And it was like watching Wild Kingdom.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I've never seen anything like it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Could it be a monkey?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Location scouting and get so fucked up. He's like in this, they gave him some steroid that was too strong. Yeah. And he went into some haze for two days. Yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, it's probably a monkey.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Do I have to get one just for our relationship, for the stories?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
My wife really wants one. I just don't like kitty litter. Are you in on this?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Would it be a male cat or a female cat?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Doing deep dives. When does Severance end?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
A plus season? A, A minus?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Do you believe that it's Apple's biggest show ever?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I don't know. How is it bigger than Ted Lasso? That show is like a phenomenon.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
How about this? I'll watch it when you watch The Sopranos. Okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
All right. Good to see you, bud.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Came out of the haze and was like, I have season three.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, I miss him. I haven't done a pod with him. He's still doing the watch, though, right?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
And it's literally season three.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
When you say when you get sick, you mean once a month when I get sick?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You do get sick a lot.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The fancies?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
At some point, everybody's going to have a lace something.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Still doing that. Great. You can watch this on video on Spotify. You can watch it on Ringer-TV, our wonderful YouTube channel that breaks down. Right now, we're doing White Lotus and Severance.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Here's what we know for episode four. We're going on a boat and I can't wait.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We're going on a boat. Greg Gary's hosting.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Saxon's going to be there with no shirt on, just doing Saxon stuff.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Saw some glances.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We're going backwards. Big takeaways from episode three before we got to rip through it. Tsunami, snakes, and fire.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Ratliff's about to be.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
He's basically like, I'm going to enjoy these next five days, my drug, whatever, stupor.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The end of the vacation will happen. They'll hand me my phone back and I'm going to jail. Yeah. Zen, I don't want to know anymore. I'm going to drop my phone in the bag.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So they plant the toxic fruit in episode one.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The pills are now heading toward the... Yeah, okay.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Could you eat the toxic fruit but not die?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Eventually, we'll get the zombies back.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So it could be like the suicide where he doesn't actually die. He eats the fruit thinking it's going to kill him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
The other one I was thinking was he makes a toxic fruit smoothie. but then gets distracted and then Lockie drinks it because he thinks it's a power shake. Bill!
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I had Lockie number two in my power rankings behind Gay Talk. Oh, man.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
What happens in Last of Us? Is it zombies? Yeah, mushroom zombies. Great. We're going to talk about White Lotus now. It's coming up next. Tsunami, snakes, and fire. Episode three is coming for us. Let's do this. Well, shit's going down. Episode three. We're heading toward something. What are we heading to?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
So those two I would have as top two. I mean, Rick has to be on there just because we know Rick's going to commit some violence and then come back to haunt him.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You guys were weird after Goggins after the first episode, and now he's full Goggins in it.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Great, great Goggins.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I think he's moved into the Emmy leaderboard rankings. I think he's number one right now.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah. So we have Belinda's now in danger. That's a big takeaway. We're going to go through all these when we break down the episode.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Greg Gary. Pornchai.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It felt like something was going to happen there. Oh, yeah.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was nervous.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I was like, are we... Oh, I'm shipping it hard. Is this going to be our first sex scene? Belinda and this guy? Really?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It wasn't a sex scene.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It was a PG. It was a PG-13, maybe. PG-13. That's not what we do on White Lotus. We go hard on White Lotus. That's true.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You're signing up for that? Do you want that for you? Is that your number one spa treatment now?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I wouldn't know what to do during the energy massage session.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
I'd be way too awkward. But what if you didn't feel it right away? Is it just, you just get your money back? No. Like, you have to, like, buy in if you're the massagee.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
You set to go with it?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
It was tough.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, time to find... This guy's going to be here for a week. I'm going to step in.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, this guy's in shape.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
This will be a fun two days.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We can't do that in two straight seasons.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh, I think it's a sneak away in the cabin. Sneak away in the boat. Like the little guest cabin in the bathroom. Because Greg Gary knew right away.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Oh. You throwing Saxon in the power rankings?
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Yeah, who's not in peril? I know. Basically just the daughter. She's the only one I feel good about.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Well, we have... Rick killing somebody in Bangkok is happening. Or on his way to Bangkok to do something not great. Those are big sequences. But he's got... Okay, so we know that...
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
We did not talk about that on the pod.
The Prestige TV Podcast
‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff
Not surprising, because they've done this. Yeah. They did it in season two. Did they do it in season one?