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Plain English with Derek Thompson

How Gen Z Sees the World

0.697

Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

How Gen Z Sees the World

21.312

Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

How AI Could Change the Future of Music

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Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

How AI Could Change the Future of Music

21.312

Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify. White Lotus, let's go.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

ABUNDANCE! With Ezra Klein

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Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

ABUNDANCE! With Ezra Klein

21.312

Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

The End of Reading

0.697

Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

The End of Reading

21.312

Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify. White Lotus, let's go.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

Can a Vaccine Cure the World’s Deadliest Cancer?

0.697

Hey, it's Bill Simmons letting you know that we are covering the White Lotus on the Prestige TV podcast and the Ringer TV YouTube channel every Sunday night this season with Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson.

Plain English with Derek Thompson

Can a Vaccine Cure the World’s Deadliest Cancer?

21.312

Subscribe to the Prestige podcast feed. Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel. And don't forget, you can also watch these podcasts on Spotify. White Lotus, let's go.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Coming up, second pot of the weekend. Let's talk more Luka. Let's talk Super Bowl props next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I think you're right. We have seen it. Um, so bonus playing with those guys is a fun wrinkle. I mean, the Ray kind of sophisticated offensive coach could probably have fun with this team. I'm not sure Doug Christie's our guy for that. Um, and if I'm a Sacramento fan, um, I'm just bummed. I'm bummed that we didn't get the Atlanta pick. I'm bummed I didn't get at least three firsts.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

1028.34

I'm bummed I didn't at least get, I don't know, Sohan back, something. Could we have turned Keegan Murray into Devin Vassell? Makes the Spurs, they just didn't get any of it. And then from the Chicago side, this is the Reinsdorf middle. That's what they call it. can we be between 36 and 44 wins every year? Can we have the illusion of hope? I think in their case, like that team's not a contender.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I wanted to see, but zealous play more. I actually like him. Yeah.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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They had to carve out some, uh, some minutes for him. They got their first round pick back. I would assume the next move is Vucevic.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Being traded somewhere. Um, Maybe they moved Josh Giddey. I don't know. But it would seem like this is a move toward let's now finish in the bottom 10 in the league and try to get another good pick, right?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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So when you say a lot to be desired, you mean because he doesn't play defense?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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You're being kind. I like, I like how you are cutting guys down sometimes in the like nicest possible way. Yeah. He leaves a little to be desired. Like, is he a guy you could maybe score 70 points against in the reg? Yes, he is. Uh, anyway, Chicago. Now we can add them to the whole, uh, to the, to the capture the flag sweepstakes, try to get in there.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Um, last thing I'll say, and then we can move on to the Luca trade. Cause I'm really, I really have other stuff I want to say about Luca and everything that happened. This interesting moment for Darren Fox, uh, We see these guys call their shot, right? These guys that push them, push their way to another team.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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They're usually about half a level higher than Darren Fox, or they have some sort of playoff pedigree, like in Jimmy Butler's case. In this case, he doesn't have it. I think he's a player we've all thought was really talented. He's about to hit his late twenties. We've seen him in the playoffs. You know, he didn't leap out in any great way.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Don't forget, Super Bowl 59 is happening. It's all happening on FanDuel too. You can opt in and bet on a player to score an anytime touchdown. If they score the first touchdown of the game, they win their anytime TD bet and split 2.5 million in bonus bets with everyone else who used their token on that player.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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It's not like some Anthony Davis, that one year in the playoffs when he just laid waste to the Blazers. He doesn't have any of that. And I think we all think he's really good, but now this spotlight is completely different. You're playing in Sacramento. You're buried. You're just another team in the West with all these famous players and teams.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Now you're playing with the most famous international player that this league's going to have. It's a different level of scrutiny and everything.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Do you think the Spurs want to play like that?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Yeah, because he's old.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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In a good way for him.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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You know, when he's a crunch time guy for them, too, would be the other piece.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Crunch time. Fox, Castle, Vassell, maybe Sohan, Wemby. It's a pretty good defensive team. It's not going to make a lot of threes. There are going to be some bad shots. But defensively, that's a pretty interesting team. And you'd probably, I guess, target Fox and go after him and try to put him in pick and rolls. But other than that, those are all guys that I think would be in pretty good shape.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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So if you use it on like AJ Brown scores first touchdown of the game, 10,000 people use their token on AJ Brown. Each customer gets... I don't know, $250 in bonus bets. That's how it would play out. If the player scores the last TD of the game, the customer wins their anytime TD bet and splits the 2.5 million in bonus bets with everyone else who used their token.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Anyway, interesting trade. Anytime you can get San Antonio, Sacramento, and the Mediocre Bulls together for a three-teamer, you just thank your lucky stars. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. And we're going to talk about Luka. Day two. The FanDuel Kick of Destiny is back, and this time it's every Manning for himself. This Super Bowl, two legends taking the field.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Don't forget to tune in to watch the showdown live during the Super Bowl 59 pregame show on Fox at 3 p.m. Eastern. made the best Manning win. FanDuel, official partner of Super Bowl 59. You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. No purchase necessary. Bonus issue does not withdraw the bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Avoid or prohibited seat terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Give them a problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, Kurt Goldsberry, you're sitting home on a Saturday night.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Luka Doncic is being traded to the Lakers. What's your immediate reaction?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Yeah, put Reeves in it. Put Reeves in the 2031 first in a swap and then I might think this happened.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I don't even think, I was saying it last night to Russell Mahoney, just we're reacting in the moment. I had some time to sit with it. I'm like, this is definitely the craziest NBA trade. There's never been anything like this. There's never been an inkling. I'm going to walk you through. I came up with the six levels of massive NBA trades.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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On that player, you are going to hear Cousin Sal and I talking about all of our favorite Super Bowl props. So we're going to hit this one specifically as well. My favorite anytime TV pick, a whole bunch of other stuff that's coming up in a second. Be sure to check out FanDuel's Super Bowl touchdown jackpot and all the ringer specials. Just look for it in the FanDuel Sportsbook app.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And I'm using mostly the 21st century trades as a litmus test because I was really trying to figure out, has there been a crazier trade than this? Level one, big deal, but we definitely had an inkling. So that's like Iverson to Denver, Carmelo to the Knicks, Chris Paul to the Clippers, even Kevin Love to the Cavs.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Big deal, but we knew we had a feeling and it wasn't like massive and we weren't going to be telling our grandkids where we heard the news. Kyrie to Boston, et cetera, et cetera. Level two, big deal, immediately one-sided and stupid. So it's a trade, you maybe add an inkling, but then you see and you're like, wait, what? That's all they got?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

1587.13

So that's like Vince Carter to the Jersey, T-Mac to the Rockets, Joe Johnson to the Hawks, Harden to Houston's a great one for this. Gobert to the T-Wolves, they're like, wait, what? What happened? That's level two. Level three is the big deal out of nowhere that you feel like something tilted. That's Jason kid for Stefan Marbury in 2001.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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It's like, Whoa, those guys might be the two best point guards in the league. They just traded them for each other. Uh, Gasol to the Lakers, Darren Williams to Utah, where he had a feeling wasn't going great there. And all of a sudden they're trading them for Derek favors and two firsts. And it was like, Whoa. But then we move into this next level, level four, uh,

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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The mega deal, but we knew something was coming. So that's like Shaq to Miami. That's KG to the Celtics. That's Anthony Davis to the Lakers. Harden to the Nets. Durant to the Suns. We had a feeling. We knew, but it was still like, holy shit, that's a monster trade. Then you go to level five, the mega deal out of nowhere. This is where it gets pretty rare. That's Paul George to the Clippers.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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We know Kawhi's picking back and forth between Lakers, Clippers the whole week. We don't see the Paul George piece. Now, all of a sudden, they're on the same team. They're trading Shea Gilgis, Alexander, Danilo Gallinari, four firsts, two swaps, and another protected pick. And we're just like, what happened?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And I think that was the biggest shocking trade, at least this century, until we get to level six last night. What the fuck just happened? Did the reporter get hacked? It's never happened before. This is the first did the reporter get hacked mega trade. So you go backwards to the seventies, eighties, like will to the Lakers cream to the Lakers.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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They, every time we had a feeling, maybe somebody that a guy was available, but you talked to a bunch of NBA teams. Had you heard Luca was available? It was even conceivable. Hell no.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Like, well, so a good way to, somebody sent this to me that Bob McAdoo is the only real comparison we can ever do, who was around the same age range. He'd won the MVP twice and, All NBA guy. And it's the only one that's even in the ballpark of, from a talent resume standpoint already. But in that case, they were trying to save money and they basically sold them to Nick's.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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It's like Moses Malone, but that, but those like, we knew those guys were getting traded. Those guys were like trading or I'm going to do free agency. Moses Malone signed with Philly and they had to then come up with a deal. So that's like the caliber of dudes. Davis is another one in 2019 with the Lakers.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

176.709

So remember, Sal and I come in later with our annual Super Bowl props. We did not expect that to be The second segment on this podcast, because I'm bringing in Kurt Goldsberry, there's just some extra stuff since that trade happened last night. You know, we're reacting to that trade in real time. Now it's Sunday afternoon. PT.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Not like this where the guy didn't know he was getting traded. This has never happened.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Yeah, and people I've talked to, reading stuff, hearing stuff, it really seems like this starts in the finals last year when Boston kicks their ass and Luka's defense is a problem. And I think Kidd, was just like, we're never going to win the title unless this guy takes it a little more seriously on the other end and gets into better shape.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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So that's something they're talking about internally all the time. Comes into this season, still not in awesome shape, gets hurt, gets hurt again. And you have Polenka Nico Harrison who had this whole crazy long relationship together. Like these were two, two of the guys that Kobe was the closest to. So they've known each other like from the height of the Kobe era.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And, uh, they just start talking and the reporting all said they started talking in the beginning of January and they've been talking ever since. And I think it's a masterful job by Polinka to convince Nico not to shop them. Now, if you're going to be fair to Nico, uh, They're going to trade Luca. They know what they wanted. They wanted a big guy.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

1893.916

There's no other big guy that they could have traded him for, right? So if you're going to make calls, you're calling Milwaukee for Giannis and you're calling Boston for Tatum. So when people talk about how do you not shop them around, they feel like, like Nico said in the press conference, whether you agree with it or not, They felt like they have a team that has a chance to win the title.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

1912.914

They wanted to add somebody who could help them win the title this year. So that rules out basically everyone in the league and brings you to Tatum and Giannis. And they didn't call Boston. They didn't call Milwaukee. Now, if they called Milwaukee and said, do you have any interest in trading for Giannis? Or do you have any interest in trading Giannis?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And Milwaukee said, I mean, the only way we'd ever even consider doing that is if Luca was on the table. And then Nico goes, well, hold on. What are you thinking? And then you kind of stumble into it, but they didn't make the calls.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

195.643

And we've learned a lot, we've read a lot, we've heard a lot, we've talked to some people, and we're gonna lay down a second set of thoughts a day removed from the most shocking trade, I think, in NBA history. So, Kurt Goldsberry next, then Cousin Sal doing Super Bowl props first. Once again, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Kirk Goldsberry is here.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And Nico said, we felt like we were heading toward a tumultuous summer that we couldn't avoid. So we're trying to get out of this now, which leads me to believe they, maybe they were split internally and paying him.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I was talking to my wife about it last night after we did the podcast. And she was just like, I don't understand why they traded Luca. Wasn't he in the finals? Like she knows nothing. She doesn't care. And I was like, yeah, they just, uh, you know, they just felt like, I guess they didn't want to pay him. I still don't know anything.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And she, and she goes, well, did they, did they try to trade them to other teams? Was that the best trade? And I was like, no, they just had one team. And she's like, that's weird, right? Like she was just like, I was trying to explain it to her. Like she was like a little kid in elementary school. It's like, yeah, usually when you're shopping, tell the other teams.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And then one of the funniest things I got this morning was one of my friends was like, Dallas is the team in your fantasy league that they just trade and you fucking lose your mind. And everyone's on email threads arguing about it because they can't believe they wasn't shopped. And that's basically what Dallas did here.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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A couple of kickers though, with this, that makes me wonder if maybe the general public has completely overrated the talent in this trade or were, or these two teams are just insane. Dallas put in a second round pick. So we're sitting there going, how is Max Christie in this trade instead of Austin Reeves? How is their 2031 first not in there? Why wasn't there like three years of swaps?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And as Rosilla made the joke last night, which was great, about Poenka like holding firm on the 31 pick, like the deal was going to go away. It was even crazier than that. He's like, not on my own firm. Give me a second round pick. And he got it. So that's how bad the Mavs, A, wanted to get rid of Luka, I guess. And B wanted Anthony Davis.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Well, so the thing with Polenka... I've just been marveling at... He's like a... It's like a character out of a succession or something. He is over and over again, figured out how to blame whoever was coaching the Lakers for whatever was wrong with them over any of his moves, right? The Westbrook trade, like you could point all these different things at point, but he always survives.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And then he somehow Jedi mind tricks, Nico Harrison with this Davis thing and talks to him for three weeks, convinces him not to shop them anywhere else. No, no. If you're going to trade Luca, like, It has to be for Davis. Who else in the league would it be? You have to get an all defensive center back. Like you're going to shop them like Milwaukee. Luca is not going to go to Milwaukee.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Like Milwaukee is not going to trade Giannis for him because Luca is never going to sign there. They know that Boston loves Tatum. They're not turning Tatum in a Luca. They love Tatum. That's their guy. Like, so now it's like bam out of bio. Like you can't trade Luca for bam out of bio. It's gotta be Anthony Davis. So he's just like, like kind of tilting it so that Niko's like, yeah, you're right.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I guess you guys are the only suitor. And it worked.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

2338.577

They want a tough defensive team, right? So they're thinking we can run our offense through Kyrie and AD. We have a bunch of shooters and tough defenders, and we could actually hang in the West in a real way if those two guys are healthy. necessarily be wrong, but it doesn't mean they should trade Luka Dacic. I think they're going to be pretty good this year.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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No, they're going to have real size with the two centers and Davis. They have wings that can play D. They have Kyrie, who's a crunch time guy. This is a pretty big offensive burden for him, but I can see how you talk to yourself into this, except for the part that you're giving up a generational talent who's having one of the first seven years of his career.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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There's only four other guys in the history of the league. Wilt, LeBron, Um, who are the other two? Will LeBron, uh, Kareem magic. No, there's one other one, but anyway, that are on this. Oh, Oscar Robertson that have the first seven years that Luca had in the history of the league. We're talking almost 80 years.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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We are taping this a little before 6 o'clock PT on Sunday night. I invited Kirk to talk about day two of the Luka Doncic Lakers trade because we covered it last night. A whole bunch more to discuss. More meat on the bone. But as we're preparing to do the pod, of course, there was another major trade. That included a team Kirk used to work for, the San Antonio Spurs.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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It's crazy. Stephen Curry took him three years to even become Stephen Curry, right? Luca immediately. And he made Western finals and finals. So I'm going to run through a couple of things I'm going to throw at you. just from reading, listening, talking to people, a couple of the narratives that didn't pass the sniff test for me are just things that I didn't hate yesterday that I wanted to.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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The first one, AD and LeBron and Clutch being blindsided by this trade, having no idea that it was in the works, finding out like we all did after the fact. As you know, I'm a conspiracy guy. I'm a sniff test guy. This has not passed the sniff test for me for this reason. buried in all of this stuff was Anthony Davis waved his trade kicker to go to Dallas. Yep. And he did it pretty quickly.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

2454.762

So you have Anthony Davis blindsided by the trade who loves Los Angeles, who's in his little clutch triangle with LeBron and Rich Paul and out of nowhere gets traded to Dallas and he's so upset about it. that he decides to forgo $5.9 million and waive his trade kicker, money he's entitled to. And he's like, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. Forget it. I want to help you guys out.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

2481.167

It just doesn't pass the sniff test for me. LeBron James, same thing. LeBron, you would think he would take this so personally. You trade my guy. This is my hand-pointed sidekick. you got to trade me now. Quietly today, it's like, nah, he's going to be here after the trade deadline. And then Clutch, same thing. Shams has a relationship with Clutch. Shams gets the scoop.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I just think they knew before the trade and I wouldn't bet my life on it, but that would be my bet.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Now that we know it's been since January 7th, it's absurd.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And seems kind of fired up to go to Dallas, which this is why I wanted to do a second day pod. Raises a bunch of questions for me. It's like, you seem pretty pumped about this.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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You're not sticking them with the trade kicker and you seem like you like where you're going and you have this long relationship with Nico Harrison and you're getting away from the Lakers and maybe you feel like you're selling high in your Laker experience. You won a title. LeBron's 40 years old. eh, new challenge, Dallas, maybe I'll be the guy there in Texas.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Just seems like if he was pissed about it, you're making them pay the 5.9, and he didn't.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

2592.78

Right, that they had to throw in a second-round pick from Dallas' side just to get this done.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

2611.742

And then if LeBron was truly blindsided by this, just from his, let's say, some passive-aggressive behavior over the years from him with roster moves and lack of moves. And he just seems pretty fine with the events, at least so far. It's 6.30 now on a Sunday night. We haven't seen him

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

262.337

Fox to the Spurs, Levine to Sacramento with some picks. Chicago basically gets their 2025 pick back and takes some contracts. And the headline, Kirk, is that San Antonio did not give up a lot for De'Aaron Fox. So why?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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really leak anything, say anything, and just seems okay because he's smart, because he gets to play Luka Doncic, and now there's this scenario where, hey, Luka, let me teach you some diet stuff. Hey, Luka, this is called a VersaClimber. What do you think of this thing? Hey, Luca, I see you're wearing about 265 right now. Do you realize if you weigh 250, this, this, this, this, this will happen.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

2654.58

Hey, Luca, here's why you keep hurting your calf. You're not doing like Luca basically inherits the greatest personal trainer in the history of the league. LeBron doesn't get hurt.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

2670.47

I think this is the scary thing of the tradesman. This is what my dad said today. He's like, I don't want Luke on the Lakers for a million reasons, but what if he figures it out?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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They, I meant to say the FU potential.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I'm going to get in the craziest shape of my life. I remember for page two in 2004, when Shaq got traded, I wrote a column called the vengeance scale. And I ranked the vengeance scale from zero to a hundred. Cause I thought like, I was like Shaq, at least for the next couple of years is going to get in shape and dedicate his life to trying to win a title and stick this up the Lakers ass.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And he eventually did. Wade got hurt in 05. He did in 06. I think Luca, the competitive guy, he's both like crazy competitive, but also frustratingly competitive because if he was that competitive, he would be in better shape.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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But I think he's competitive enough that when somebody trades you, you're just going to be pissed when you're playing for the Lakers in LA and this incredible franchise and you get, you know, bathed in love from all that. You see the 77 jerseys, all that stuff. Um, it has a chance to really ignite them. And that would be the thing. I mean, I feel so bad for the Mavs fans.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I've talked to a couple of them today. Like they're just so devastated. They just can't believe this. And if I'm Mavs in the worst part of this trade is what happens if we lose in round two and Luca just goes on a heater for the next like eight years. And we're like, we fucking lost Jalen Brunson and Luca Donchic. And I was on a thread with some Red Sox fans.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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We were arguing about the Mookie Betts trade versus the Luka trade. And Luka, I think, is a more important asset because there's four untradeable NBA guys every year. In baseball, there's 25 guys on a team. But Mookie was our Luka, basically. And we'd actually won a title with him. And he really was a unique, amazing top five, top eight player. And we got, we didn't get Anthony Davis for him.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I'll just tell you that we got, we got Connor Wong and Jeter Downs and Alex Verdugo. And we got rid of David Price's contract. That was a trade. And it made me not like baseball. Like I don't really watch the Red Sox in the same way anymore. So for the Mavs fans, like I know some Mavs fans, like Jason Gallagher, who we used to work with, like he's,

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He's talking about like his son is like, I'm following Luca to the Lakers. It's like a lifelong Babs fan. It's like, now I am a Laker fan. This is like that whole fucked up side of this is crazy.

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They were going to the arena with props. Somebody brought a coffin. They were having a protest. Somebody brought a coffin to say goodbye to the Mavs. It was like 30 threads of just visceral pain, dude. Well, and there's also some incredible conspiracy stuff already. I mean, God only knows what's true, half true, 10% true, but...

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I love this one that the owners have always wanted the Vegas team and their eventual goal is to basically flip franchises, move Dallas to Vegas so they can have their old casino thing. The expansion team that was going to go in Vegas would be the Dallas team. They'd pay whatever.

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And the first way to do this was to be basically to torpedo the Mavericks franchise relationship with their fans by trading Luka Doncic. And it's like, I have no notes. That's one of the best conspiracy theories I've ever heard.

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Okay, so why didn't they give up more picks to get Darren Fox, who I had number 20 on my trade value list?

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Probably not happening.

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That's what my dad said. I mean, the father of conspiracy bill, conspiracy bill senior, was like, this just feels like the Lakers were about to die and they had to put another star on their team. Because my dad was like, how does this team... keep pulling this off. Like all the Celtic fans were just getting pissed about this today because this is the team we hate the most.

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And it's just like, this team just steps in shit They're born on third base in the ultimate way. They fuck up the entire 2010s, the entire 2010s. Even like they take Lonzo Ball over Tatum. Like you can point to a million things. And it all leads to LeBron being like, yeah, you know what? I really want to live in LA. And they just miraculously land LeBron.

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Then they have this clutch alliance where like, we're putting Anthony Davis on the Lakers. Nobody else trade for him. The Celtics are like, here are all these picks and we'll trade you Jalen Brown. They're like, nope. He's got to go to the Lakers. So now they get Davis and LeBron together.

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And then they get six years out of Davis and turn him into Luka Doncic, the best generational offensive prospect slash star slash heading into his prime guy since LeBron.

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Yeah, you could do an all-time nine-man rotation of NBA 75 guys that they've traded for or signed in for agency. Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Kobe, because they traded for Kobe. Gasol, Dwight, LeBron, AD, Luka. Those guys are all top 75 guys that they acquired.

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For us, the Celtics would be Robert Parrish and KG, I think would be the two best. And that's in 80 years, unless you count the Bill Russell trade because they flip draft picks. But yeah, it's really rare.

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Yeah, and then the flip side for the Mavs, this is, I mentioned the Mookie Betts trade. This is Edmonton trading Gretzky in 1988, which we did a 30 for 30. That was actually the first 30 for 30 ever. But Gretzky had already won titles for them. The whole point is Luka had not won the title for them yet. He had the promise of, oh my God, we have this guy for the next 20 years.

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Then we have the other weird piece, Kirk, about the Lakers who are playing well. They still have to do the trade. But the irony of them doing the trade right now was they had just started to look like a contender and they had an identity and they were big and physical and they'd figured out some of the spacing. Christie and Finney Smith were both playing well at wings.

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So they finally had competent wings they could put out there. So that was part of the trade last night was the timing of it was like, I just watched this team and they look really good. And now they just made the most shocking trade in the history of the league. Um, So a defense of the Luca trade from Dallas aside, I just want to do this as a thought exercise.

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Paul versus Peter

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So they kept Wemby, Fox. They added Vassell, Castle, who I think was a non-starter. Sohan, Harrison Barnes, Kelton Johnson, CP3, Champagny. Yeah. Pretty nice nine. Now CP3 coming off the bench. Maybe you play him with Fox. We've seen CP3 in OKC. He was playing with Schroeder and with SGA. Like he weirdly knows how to play with other small guards.

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If you're trying to zag, what's the defense? If you're like, you know what? Nico Harrison has figured this out and he's going to fucking show you that this trade was really smart. What's the defense?

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All right, I'll add to the defense. Anthony Davis anchored a finals team in 2020 that won it all. Defense wins championships. No defense stars don't win titles. Go find me one. I've seen a lot of no defense superstars take teams to round three, maybe even round four, but they don't win. How do we know he was signing here in 2026? We don't know. Got to get out early.

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The way to do this is to do it now. And we feel like we can get a lot of value. And then AD was the only guy we wanted. Luka was never going to Milwaukee. Boston went to Tatum. Bam's not good enough. KD's too old. Edwards makes no sense for either side. Jalen Brunson, no. So where are we shopping him to? We're going to trade him for a bunch of picks. Like we didn't want to do that.

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We feel like our team's good. I think that's the defense and it's moronic.

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They're so mad, they'd probably boo the finals trophy ceremony. Throwing their Luka Doncic jerseys at it.

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They still need one more trade. I think they need a little, somebody a little more, uh, heat checky who can create their own shot and they still have time to do it. Cause they have some contracts.

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I forget. So Rudy just texted us that, uh, the Warriors, Jimmy Butler trade talks have finally ended because the Warriors did not want to, uh, commit to an extension. And Jimmy Butler said, this is, uh, who reported this already? It was, uh, Wendy. Oh, Wendy reported. Yeah. So there you go.

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Paul versus Peter

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Um, yeah, I was thinking about the one thing we didn't talk about yesterday because we were so dumb, dumbfounded by the trade. Are there moves for the Lakers to, this year to become an interesting playoff team, because I'm positive.

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I, if LeBron is playing like he did last night and he can just stay somewhat, uh, healthy and fresh for a couple of rounds, that's not a team I want to see in round one or round two, then Luca with him. And you just have these two freaky physical six foot eight, six foot nine guys who don't really have a position who can, who both have crazy hoops IQs.

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And then if you can put the right team around them, which they're, inching closer to having, except they don't have any rent protection at all. And could they go get Nick Claxton was a rumor today. Could they take a flyer and Robert Williams? Could they get Clint Capella with the Hawks want to trade a Congo for, for the 2031 pick, which put Austin Reeves on the table. What could you get for him?

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Paul versus Peter

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If I'm a Spurs fan, I'm out of my mind that this was the trade because they gave up the 27 Spurs first. I don't care. I have Wemby. I'm going to be one of the best 10 teams in the league in 27. They gave up the 2031 Minnesota first. which hurts. That might be a real pick.

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Paul versus Peter

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You need him. House and I were talking about this today. You need him as your six-man injury protection for one of those two guys. Somebody who's 25 minutes a game. You always have to... you know, obviously the other two guys are way better offensively, but you always have two really good creators and Reese is turning into a pretty good creator, um, at all times.

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So could you, could you turn like Gabe Vincent, 2031, something else until like Nick Claxton.

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You're not sold on Jackson Hayes? Christian Wood?

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Here's the thing. They should think that way. And I didn't think they had a chance to win four straight rounds with the team they had because it was putting too much... LeBron looked good against the Knicks. He was awesome against the Knicks. To ask somebody to do that for 10 straight weeks, to me at age 40, is not realistic.

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But now they have a guy who can... We've already seen him single-handedly beat teams in a series who's now going to be pissed off trying to shove it up somebody's ass. So if I'm the Lakers, I feel like I could win the win three rounds now.

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I feel like we're going against OKC and it's like, we have LeBron and Luka and you guys are small and we're going to just try to bully ball you and you can, you know, do whatever, but you, we're still going to be a bitch to play. I can't believe I'm saying this, but like they have the six best, they were 21 to one last night. Now they're 18 to one.

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Paul versus Peter

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Some people are betting them, which is not surprising. But if they get a rim protector and they can play LeBron and Luka with some sort of shooting point guard, Finney Smith and the rim protector at crunch time with Reeves coming off the bench and some other pieces, I wouldn't want to see him in a series.

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Paul versus Peter

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Well, they have the miracle of Palenka keeping Reeves and the 2031 pick. So they, I mean, they go get that and that almost could be part of the trade, right?

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Paul versus Peter

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They got this, they gave up this 2025 Charlotte pick that is basically one through 14 protected and it's going to turn into two seconds. And Sacramento gets two first five seconds and they get Zach Levine, who I think we both really liked this year. I actually think he's an asset.

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Paul versus Peter

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Yeah, it's... I think he stays. It's a better career move. And I think he likes LA, right? You get traded. Your son has to come with you. That's weird. Going to Golden State. What ultimately are you going to happen? You get to play with Curry. It's an older team. You have a better chance of winning the title with the team you have now.

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Paul versus Peter

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If he's all about titles and like an unbelievable out of nowhere title run, which still dubious, but you go through all these teams and all right, they're playing Houston in round one. Are you going against Luca pissed off with LeBron as his sidekick? against like Fred Van Vliet?

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Paul versus Peter

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Well, they're going to be in a situation where they're going to have to sign Luka this summer and LeBron's going to opt into his deal. So they basically have one chance to align all the money because they're going to get crushed next year no matter what happens. But they're the Lakers and they shouldn't care because all of a sudden they have...

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Paul versus Peter

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this meal ticket of LeBron was about to end with the season tickets, the suites, everything else. You had the Clippers in their new arena, which is awesome. They, Lakers playing in the shitty Staples Center. And now it's like, now it's, now here's, come see Luka Doncic.

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And it's a guy that, you know, there's always been a weird thing with LeBron and the Laker fans because it's right after Kobe and there's this whole Kobe contingent. Luka had this awesome early relationship with Kobe and I could just see them being all in on adopting him.

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And also, he won't be the first guy to move to California and immediately lose 20 pounds and look awesome and be tan and get in shape. It's happened many times. This is what happens when you come out here. Perfect place for it.

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Paul versus Peter

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It's a born out third base team. It's frustrating itself. The thing with the Lakers though, they do have really good fans. I got to hand it to them. And they have an expectation. it's annoying that it's always going to somehow work out. Right. Even if they're in the 2010s, they kept ending up with these picks and it was a mess. And Kobe's last two years weren't great.

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And it was always like, we're the Lakers. This is going to work out. The Celtics used to have that in the eighties and nineties. It's like, well, now it'll work out. And then all of a sudden it didn't work out forever. And I was always like, just wait with this Lakers thing. When LeBron leaves, just wait. And now they had a Luka Dacic.

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And he'll probably be pissed off.

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Austin Reeves and Max Christie.

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They reunited an eighth seed for multiple years from the East.

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The NBA doesn't allow it to do that. Kirk. Teams aren't allowed to talk to players from other teams. That doesn't happen.

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Dude, people don't leave the Lakers. Once you're here and you're on the Lakers and they're spending money and you're in the sunshine, you don't... Guys have not left the Lakers. Great players, they stay. That's what happens.

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Paul versus Peter

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I feel like I'm going to throw up. Right now, they're a five seed. They are tied with Denver in losses for the four seed, and they're only three back from Memphis. I think they have to get in the top half of that top four, right? So they can have at least one home series. I'm just, I'm all in on Luca. I completely believe in him as a terrifying offensive force.

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Vooch has to be feeling left out. Come on, guys. We could have gone 43 and 39 together. Why am I still in Chicago?

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And I think he needed a kick in the ass like this. I'm all in on him. Like, I feel like they can make the finals. I don't think it's crazy. We watched him do it last year. And he owns Oklahoma City.

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Paul versus Peter

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That's the one team they have to beat. And he plays great against them. And even this year, he had a good game against them. But, you know, and then you take a team like Denver. How do you beat a team like Denver with two really gifted offensive players? You know, and then there's the LeBron piece, too.

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This is like an amazing out of nowhere, you know, life raft for a chance to get another title and rewrite some of his shit.

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Well, that was the thing last night in the Knicks game. Physically... he was so impactful compared to everyone on the Knicks. It just didn't feel like they had a big enough athlete to handle him. And LeBron hasn't felt like that in a while. It really feels like maybe he knew that Luka trade was coming and that's why he was playing with a little, a little pep in his step.

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Paul versus Peter

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But, um, I just think those guys are going to be really hard to play. There's a flip side of this where, uh, Those two are a disaster on defense. You can't play the two of them with Reeves together. JJ, who is now realizing the weight of, holy shit, I took this Lakers job and now we have Luka Doncic. He's like, his hair's fucking falling out by April.

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When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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They aren't able to get the right rim protector. I would say it's 65-35 for me. that they could actually be an incredibly dangerous playoff team versus... But I was surprised with the people I talked to today. People kind of weren't seeing the immediate title picture. I think Luka, as long as he's healthy, he has to be... It's like Jokic.

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It's like when Denver looked like shit in the start of the season and we were all worried about them. It's like, well, they still have Jokic. I'm not counting them out yet.

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Paul versus Peter

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Well, I would say the Clippers... from a defensive roster standpoint, are actually built the best to kind of battle this team, which means maybe we'll finally get the Clippers-Lakers series we've been waiting for forever. But yeah, I just think in a series, it's going to be really hard to match baskets with them if Luka's right. And I don't know why he wouldn't be right.

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He was averaging 28 a game, by the way. I know he's having his worst statistical year, but... Yeah, this is an amazing turn of events.

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Wow, until today.

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No, didn't they lose to Toronto?

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Paul versus Peter

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No foul today for them, though. Yeah. Yeah. Clippers versus Lakers. We could see it. Amazing trade. Congrats to the Spurs for getting Fox as well. I don't know. We have four days until the trade deadline, Kirk. I don't know what else to expect. We don't know where Jimmy Butler's going. There's still... What other things should we be watching? Jimmy Butler.

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Miami, God only knows what they're up to. Are Memphis and Houston going to feel like they should do something, which would be great for the Lakers if they didn't. Is Cleveland going to tinker with anything at all? Vucevic is another one. Can the Suns get up there and just deal with a pick and try to get a better rim protector?

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And can Milwaukee figure out anything? Would be my other question. Are they just stuck with the team they have?

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I was texting somebody about that today saying Cuban's got to be disconsolate. Because first of all, he trades the Mavs or sells the Mavs as the franchises are going up. He seems like he had a feeling like he might be involved. He's not. And then Luca, this is hand-picked like... if they win the title, he gets to take credit for that forever. Now they trade them.

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Kirk Goldsberry. Great to see you looking forward to your next piece. Um, and we'll see you in, uh, we'll see in Austin in a few weeks.

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Can't wait. Big live show coming. Um, good to see you. Thank you. Thank you, brother. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors.

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With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven-layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat.

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All right, we're taping this on a Sunday afternoon. Sal, you hate this. It's Super Bowl week. It's supposed to be all NFL. And then the NBA holes come flying in with the most shocking trade in NBA history. And now you got to take a seat on the side.

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Yeah, you did.

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I know we're still going. We're still doing our thing.

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Yeah, what if we put Luka and LeBron on the same team? Will anyone complain about the ratings again?

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It really is true. Now, at this point, the only person I would refuse to believe got traded is Wemby. Yeah. I think everyone else in the league, you could talk me into a trade in a ridiculous scenario involving any player. Super Bowl, Chiefs-Eagles. We've had a week to either think about it or not think about it. There are a ton of props. Fando has amazing pages and pages of... Great stuff.

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Paul versus Peter

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Great links. We're going to have ringer specials on there later. Ringer Sunday pregame is going to have some stuff like we're we're good. Do you have a feel for the Super Bowl yet? And has it affected your Super Bowl props? The things that you think will happen in the game? Are you steering that way already?

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Paul versus Peter

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Yeah, and they still have a bunch of picks. They have the two, three, four spots, a lot of length, some potential shooting, although they haven't been shooting the ball this year, but ultimately you're hoping there's going to be some shooting. And they protected their nucleus and they still have another trade to make.

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Is that true?

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I'm nuts, yeah.

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I think about that all the time, how when I'm finally dead, how mad I'm going to be, not just that I'm dead, but I'm not going to know what's going to happen for the next 25 Super Bowls, NBA. It's like, oh, shit. Yeah. My lean is close game. I have two leans so far, and I'm still debating where to go with the game and probably will decide on Tuesday. But it feels like the line is off.

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Paul versus Peter

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and it feels like it's going to be a close game. Those are my two leans. I actually think the Eagles should be favored the more I stare at this. And I don't know what the Mahomes tax is at this point, but it feels like it's a field goal.

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Paul versus Peter

4700.476

Right, then the Chiefs should win the fourth game of a close game. I guess more like I don't think it's going to be a blowout. Like I don't think either of these teams is blowing out the other team. Could one of them win by 10 points, 12? Sure. But it feels like it's going to be a relatively close game, no blowout.

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Paul versus Peter

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I still feel like the only, the only like no way they're trading these guys on the Spurs would be Wemby now Fox and castle. And everyone else is still in play for me. And they have contracts they can put together. They're not going to trade for Jimmy Butler, but if you know, he was a little more enticing, that's the type of trade.

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Paul versus Peter

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And I just think the Eagles should be favored by like two and a half on a neutral field. They have more good players all over the place. They have an easier way to win than the Chiefs do. And you go back and you look at, as great as the Chiefs were, the fact that they were 17-2, week 18, they're basically 17-1, you throw every week 18. But...

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Paul versus Peter

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It just was harder for them week to week than when you watch this Eagles team just seems to be really crude. I mean, the Eagles have won 15 of the last 16 pretty easily.

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Paul versus Peter

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I'm leaning toward the Eagles and I'm just afraid to go against my homes, which is why the line is where the line is. That's why that's the whole point of this line is nobody wants to bet against the Chiefs. I wouldn't look into the line to him.

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Paul versus Peter

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It's a great wrinkle for him. Yeah. All right. But the Memphis GM.

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Paul versus Peter

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That's a playoff manifesto staple, especially at this time. You're just betting who you think is going to win. Don't worry about the line.

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Paul versus Peter

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Well, it matters for teasers and stuff. Yeah. You can get Philly above seven. Pretty tasty. All right. So every year, and we've been doing this forever, I actually researched this. We were the first people, the first two people ever to like Super Bowl props. Yo, you researched it, really? In the media, yeah. We were the first ones. I don't think a lot of people... Good.

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Paul versus Peter

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Nobody ever talked about Super Bowl props. That's true. We felt like we were really going on a limb. We did a pod, maybe the 2007 Super Bowl, and we floated some props, and everybody in the world was like, what are these? What are these guys talking about? No, all these years later, it's a cottage industry. I don't feel like we get the credit.

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There'd never been a Super Bowl prop before we did a podcast. I love it.

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As far as we know.

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Paul versus Peter

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That's actually not true, obviously. And the first time we watched the Super Bowl together... when it was the first day Jimmy Kimmel was doing a show and we were in charge of monitoring the Tampa Bay Oakland game. Right. And coming up with jokes. And we were in a van and you had this whole printout sheet of Super Bowl props that was like 58 pages.

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And we're just going through and there would be silence. Like, hey, Simmons. What about Rich Gannon over under completions? And that was just the whole ride. So we've loved this forever.

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Uh, maybe they could trade for Luca Donchic if he fails his physical and the Lakers. And it turns out he's 290 pounds. Um, but, uh, But this is an awesome trade for them. In my head, this was a four or five firsts and probably Sohan or Vassell in it. Seemed like that was it. But I guess if you're the Spurs, you're like, look, man, we're not giving up a lot for this dude.

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Paul versus Peter

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Yeah, because all the HTML would be off. It would be like the margins would be too small. You'd have like these little crazy, beautiful mind notes on each page. Now we just go to FanDuel and there's all these hyperlinks. Beautifully separated. It's great. Can we start with MVP? Because there's a couple. Mahomes is plus 110. Barkley's plus 280. Hertz is plus 370.

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Paul versus Peter

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And the most interesting one was the field versus Mahomes is minus 150. And we always look at this and we always like it. But if you think KC's not going to win... this feels like a fun MVP bet because you basically get everybody else. Yeah, that's true. I don't know if you could parlay it with other stuff.

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Or Xavier Worthy, like eight for 120. There's that like Julian Edelman type of game that's sitting there. There's like the big Kelsey game. I don't know if any, the way they use their running backs, I don't see how either running back would be in it. Right. So you're looking at a crazy worthy game, a crazy Kelsey game or my home. So Casey wins plus one 10 is nice.

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Paul versus Peter

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The problem with taking the field versus Mahomes, I guess you get everyone on the Chiefs too with that minus 150. So it's a parlay of the Eagle side, which you could just bet straight up for plus 110, but then you're covered on every other non-Mahomes thing. But I think the best value is Barkley. At plus 280.

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Because I think if they win, I think he's going to be the best player in the game would be my assumption. Like he gashes them a couple of times. He's been the best part of the playoffs. It's a narrative that makes sense to me. And I thought the odds were pretty good. What would the Hurts game have to be for MVP? So he's throwing two touchdowns, probably one deep one. It's probably...

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5118.458

Plus 280 is still good if it's close to three. The Barkley bets that jumped out So I've never monitored this, but there was a 25 plus rushing yards each quarter for plus 750. Yeah. That I've never bet on. And I have no idea if that's a good bet or not. It seems terrible. Two touchdowns is plus 280. So you'd have to, you'd probably have to break one of those. Then maybe get one around five or six.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

514.329

He wants to come here anyway. He's from Texas. We'll just get him in a year and a half. So we can do this now and you'll get some stuff or we'll just wait. We're on no rush. We're not going to win the title. Um, one thing Eddie Johnson said on my pod on Thursday, I thought was a great basketball ex basketball player point was about Fox as a lefty with Wemby as a righty versus boxes.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5141.961

I thought the odds were pretty good. There was one where him and Kareem hunt 200 plus rush yards is three to one. So you figure if he got over like 130, 140, if he thought Hunt was going to be in the 50s, 60s, that could get there. Three to one's nice. But I think the one I like the most is 169 plus rushing yards, which would be a new record. It's five to one. So you can just bet on that.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5170.164

And basically the bet is, I bet that Saquon Barkley will break the record. 169, boom, five to one.

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Paul versus Peter

5195.577

So you like that one the most? Do you have any other Barkley bets?

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Paul versus Peter

5221.427

Oh, man.

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Paul versus Peter

5230.13

Okay. Yeah. So I had the Barkley one. The Hurts stuff, there's an anytime TD for him for minus 115. And that's just one tush push, right? If it's first and goal from the two, third and goal from the one. I got to say, I was surprised that was the line. I thought that was going to be like minus 140. It's almost like surprising if he doesn't get one. That one jump out to you?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5290.187

Yeah.

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Paul versus Peter

5312.11

What are the odds on that?

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Paul versus Peter

5326.395

I really like that. So Fando has, they have that anytime touchdown that like either first one or last one of the game that they're putting a pretty big thing on that you could get in. If it's an anytime TD bet and it ends up being the first touchdown in the game, you end up in this bonus bets pool. If it's the last touchdown of the game, same thing.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

534.2

Fox is a lefty with Sabonis as a lefty, which I thought was cool, but I liked the idea of Fox, you know, not great when players push their way out of a team, but you know, he gave him a heads up. I'm not going to resign here. He's been pretty clear about that for the whole season. He picks San Antonio.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5348.894

And I think Kurtz was my favorite anytime touchdown bet. I bet that goes up. I think that's going to be like minus 135 by game time. Two other things with him. Longest run was 11 and a half yards. And it feels like every game they have that one run where it's like the delayed QB draw and he's running to the right or the left and he just goes for like 30 yards.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5370.82

And I can't believe that wouldn't happen in this game once. So 11 and a half, I really liked. And then longest pass of the game for him, 32 and a half yards. So, and this ties into some, some AJ Brown stats too. But when you look at the Chiefs, so they gave up against Buffalo, they gave up a 34 yarder, a 24 yarder and 23 yarder against Houston. They give up a 34 yarder, a 24 yarder and 24 yarder.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5400.774

So they do give up big plays when you watch where it's like that bend, but don't break, but you can get the, you can bust one on them. So I was thinking, I like that one too. The, the just longest one, 33 yard pass to somebody, AJ Brown, Devonta Smith. Maybe it's got it. Maybe Barkley on a wheel route. Yeah. I think they'll bust one.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5430.661

What'd you feel about passing yards? There's two. There's 210.5 is the over-under for Hurts. You could go 175 plus passing yards for him as minus 310. I think they're too goofy. I almost feel like the total pass yards is a stay away for him because we've seen games where they just run the ball all the time. We've also seen games where they vary it out. It doesn't make sense to me.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5494.665

So out of those Barkley Hurts, what's your favorite one? I think I like the rush yard record for plus five to one on Barkley just for the hell of it. I like your two touchdowns and I like the anytime TD and the longest pass, longest run for Hurts. I feel like you at least split those.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

550.432

He picks this whole Wemby circus that will become a circus in a good way because you're attaching yourself to one of the generational superstars in the league. You fit in nicely with him. Now you throw those lobs at the righty, as Eddie was pointing out. And it just feels like an incredible career move for Fox. It really does. It's like, wow, I totally get what you're thinking here.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5529.324

Oh, wow. Those are way better odds than the Barkley plus 280.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5536.089

You're just going to need some luck to push it over the top. Too bad you can't hedge that. AJ Brown, I didn't really have any stuff I like for him. Some of the stuff isn't out yet. That usually comes Wednesday, Thursday, like the completion bets and things like that. Right. But AJ Brown just seems hit or miss to me. I'm staying away. Any other Eagles bets that you're fired up about?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5596.763

So what are the odds on the seven and a half?

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Paul versus Peter

5599.545

Yeah. Minus one time. Yeah. Cause one of the ones, one of the bets that's not out yet is the missed field goal thing for him. Cause he's right. Always feels like he, uh, he has one at some point. All right. So on the chief side, some Mahomes bets that jumped out to me over 29 and a half rush yards, just too many times with his legs. Like if you look at the biggest games he's played, uh,

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5624.081

The completions, I'm sorry, the carries are more exciting to me. Five and a half carries. Because you get that 29 and a half rush yards. Yep. You have the potential that Neal's not going to bat. The carries are the carries. That's minus 140, so there's some cheese.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5640.694

This year, he was 11 for 43 against Buffalo. He was seven for 14 against Houston, including the three Neals at the end. Uh, in 2023, nine for 66 against San Fran, six for 15 against Baltimore and six for 19 against Buffalo. So the last five times he's had six or more.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5658.507

And then if you look at the super bowls, the other super bowls, the Philly one, six for 44, the Tampa one, five for 33, San Francisco nine for 29. So the only time he didn't get five and a half out of you know, eight of the biggest games of his career and all the super bowls is that one Tampa game when he had five, not six.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5678.862

So to me over carries minus one 40, I'm putting the juice on, I'm doing it.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5711.437

So the other one, if you want to do a yardage bet, I would recommend the 40 plus rush yards for Mahomes. That's plus 180. And again, 43 against Buffalo, 66 against San Francisco, 44 against Philly. So he's done it a few times. You're basically getting two to one odds. But I think he's going to need to do it in this game because Philly's the way they're going to probably play defense in him.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5736.013

They have those four guys. They play everybody else back. They fake blitz. They do all these different things. But if you're just rushing those four, he can just slide out and over and over again, find these pockets. Yeah. Yeah. I like him with his legs in this game and he's healthy too. We know he's healthy. He's healthy.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5764.736

Mahomes under two and a half sacks. That's a good one. Cause if, if he's over two and a half sacks, Casey's probably not winning. Right. So Kareem hunt is somebody that really fascinates me. Hmm. Anytime touchdown for him is plus 135. He scored in the last four games. Two touchdowns for him is plus 950. And the reason I mention it is because Mahomes, they don't run sneaks with him.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5788.958

So unless Mahomes scores from like the four yard line or the seven, like when it's around the goal line, they go with running backs. His 50 plus yards is plus 115 for rushing. 70 plus yards is plus 320. Most rushing yards in a game, if you like KC, is 7-1 for Hunt. But I was looking back at, the Houston game. And then especially the Buffalo game, he was 17 for 64 in that Buffalo game.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5813.866

And they threw to him once Pacheco is five for 12. I think the Eagles are big. Pacheco is like a little guy. I actually think hunt's going to be the guy for them in this game. And I feel like it's gravitating toward them anyway, or for that anyway, when, uh, the bigger the moment it is, it just seems like they like having hunt out there. So I kind of like all the hunt bets.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5896.701

Yeah, they've just never tried it since he got hurt. Along those lines, there was a Chiefs prop I liked. It was over four and a half guys that rushed the ball. And this basically goes down to P. Ryan. If P. Ryan runs the ball, they get to five. Because Worthy has at least one carry every game. Hunt and Pacheco. Mahomes is going to run. So you're basically betting on Piran.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5918.448

Piran has no runs in the playoffs. And the Chiefs always zag when they get to the Super Bowl. So I wonder, is there like the one that's like third and nine? Oh my God, it's a draw play to Piran. But I like the four and a half over.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5940.904

Oh, then it seems like, yeah, that would suck. Yeah. Yeah. The, the, my home stuff, I love this stuff with his legs, the hunt stuff. I think he's going to actually, you know, be pretty prominently involved. The guy that I can't get a handle on is Kelsey. You just figure the yards for all of his props are five yards higher than they should be. Because he's the most public prop bet there is.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

5965.348

You can do 80 plus yards for him is plus 235. Seven plus receptions is plus 135. And then there's that 25 plus yards each half. Each half. Two to one. To me, he's a stay away. I didn't like how he disappeared in that last game. No N'Kobe Dean. So maybe that's a way for him to, but I just feel like they're going to take him out.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

60.177

Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6026.021

What are the odds on that?

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Paul versus Peter

6032.765

They go to him a lot too. Yeah. I like that one. So you agree that Kelsey's a stay.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6039.75

So I would do the first half, second half. That's it. Game props. My favorite ones. Both teams get a fourth down conversion is minus 124. I can't remember the last NFL game I watched where both teams didn't get a fourth down. The Eagles seem to get at least one every game. Minus 124 seems like a layup.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6074.396

There's another one that I wouldn't recommend, but I thought was interesting, just because I thought the odds would have been more... better for the better. Um, fourth down conversion in your own territory, minus one 14. Oh, wow. Like, why is that like plus one 60? Oh, wow. It's so weird to go, go in your own territory.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6094.661

But if that's minus one 14, then why wouldn't I just bet on both teams to get a fourth down conversion? Right.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6101.423

Um, so successful two point conversion, um, A bet that I think we've done the last couple of years and the odds still haven't shifted enough on it. It's plus 175. It feels like we have one every year.

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Paul versus Peter

6118.122

It's not true?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6136.889

It just says any successful two-point conversion is plus 175.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6147.535

Maybe it's a stay away. How about a 60-yard reception for either team? Plus 435. 60-yard plus. Interesting. That's like one worthy down the sideline or one A.J. Brown. I wanted the odds to be better for that. Seems like a Super Bowl play maybe, yeah. And then this is one of my favorites. Philly wins the time of possession. Minus 128. I went back and looked and they've won like almost every week.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

615.376

And he's not just the best defender in the league. He's decidedly the best defender in the league already. He absolutely disrupts and devastates games with his defense and really fucks teams up already.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6176.886

It feels like. And if you think they're going to win the game, then they're going to win the time possession. I had the 087 at points as well. Did you have Jalen Carter over three and a half tackles and assists for plus 120?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6191.31

I mean, he's a fucking maniac. How is he not going to get four tackles and assists?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6224.499

My favorite prop. Yeah. And then we're going to take a break, and then you're going to go through all your crazy props. All right. Chris Jones sack. Plus 136. So what do we know? What have we seen from the Eagles? Hurts will go back. And if it's not there, he holds it on too long. We see guys go up the middle and get them. And it seems to happen twice a game.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6248.749

That's exactly what Chris Jones was put on the earth to do is to push the line back. And every once in a while, he gets to the guy. And I just was surprised. I thought that was going to be I don't know, even odds. Plus 136. Pretty good. Just free value.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6273.459

All right. So those are all mine. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. The cuz is going to rip through his favorites. And then the most important part of the podcast, the Gary Russell bet. Can't wait. Next. Here we go. This episode is brought to you by Workday. There are two kinds of people in the world, backward thinkers and forward thinkers.

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Paul versus Peter

6296.255

Forward thinkers have plans 15 minutes from now and 15 years from now. They're not just one step ahead, they're 1,000 steps ahead. And when you're a forward thinker, you need a platform that thinks like you do. Workday's AI illuminates decision-making and reimagines how you manage your people and money for long-term success. Workday, moving business forever forward. Find out more at Workday.com.

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Paul versus Peter

6339.335

and everything in between. Peloton's got the tools to adapt to whatever goal you're chasing in this season of your life, and here's the real kicker. With Peloton's all-access membership, you can work out wherever you need to, at home, on the bike, tread, or row, or even on the go with the app. Take your favorite classes with you to the gym, on the road, wherever.

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Paul versus Peter

6358.819

So whatever you're aiming for at that 5 a.m. club or squeezing in a late-night session, Peloton is ready whenever you are. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton at onepeloton.com. All right, guys, you have the floor. Rip through your bets, and then we'll do Gary Russell.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6408.875

Or Daniel buying four squares and then three other squares for little kids and then just winning it. Yeah.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6435.962

That looks great. That sounds way more fun than being in a pool.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6440.105

Okay.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6447.312

I couldn't land on the right one for the right odds. I was looking at. So you can bet Mahomes throws for the most pass. Good. Barkley does the most rushing. Easy. Oh, I'll get nuts with Xavier Worthy as most receiving, and that's my threesome. Plus 650 right there.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6482.203

Pay six, ten to one. So you're saying just do a whole bunch of them?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6490.132

We got one game left. Pick two or three.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6493.915

And then we have Luka Doncic on the Lakers to bet on. We're fine.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6498.699

The NBA is here to save you. Crazy bets.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6507.046

Luka first gluten-free diet consultation.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6516.044

I mean, being in a really nice sunny city does have a way of making you feel bad when you're, you know, when you're pulling over the t-shirt and it's a little tight because you're about to walk around.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6550.981

Eagles first half, Chiefs game, plus 750. I mean, I could actually see that happening. I would have thought that would have been like plus 500. Yeah. Yeah. That's the one. Great one, Cous. All right. Cousin South Special. Fando should fucking give that to you. They should name that officially the Cousin South Special. People should know what it is.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6582.959

Yeah, both teams first pass. First completion, both teams.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6599.042

So this is like second and seven. Let's throw the quick out to Noah Gray for four. Let's take Goddard really quick. Little shovel pass.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6644.692

I saw that. So who's the guy who's still winning for receivers?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6677.803

I almost wonder if the move is to bet the over on Goddard, but then you also bet the Deami Brown bet. And you can hedge it either way, right?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6686.387

Playoff. So playoff leaders. That's such a fun one. I can't believe. So Goddard's the favorite at minus 125. Deami Brown is plus 280. Oh, it's 280 now? And then Worthy's 10 to 1. It keeps going. It keeps going.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6718.988

That's a long punt. That would almost have to bounce because the guy didn't pick it up.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6730.953

That almost would make me nervous that that line is so high. Like Fandle knows something.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6736.497

It's like a giant punt.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6764.382

Yeah, but there's got to be some other player that's under 15. Devonta Smith is under 15.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6771.11

Devonta Smith.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6776.386

Brown. Yeah. And A.J.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6813.426

It seems like it would have to be a pass. That's at least 25 yards. Yeah. or a run that's at least 25 yards so the guy can get the full head of steam. Right. So that's why Barkley's the favorite for that one. So he's supposed to have the longest play. It's that simple? Yeah. I'm going to bet on Travis Kelsey. I just feel like he's looking fast lately.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6836.101

Just seems like... Just seems like... No, I would bet I'm worthy on that in the 3-1 odds and then hope that he gets...

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

684.474

I don't know if Fox is on a, if this is going to be like a Chicago Bulls run for Wemby someday or a Lakers run or, you know, a Kobe Gasol run or a 2010 Warriors run. I'm not sure. Fox to me seems more like a Klay Thompson, Draymond Green level star. He's not like a true number two. He's not the Kobe to Shaq, something like that.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6866.51

Probably running back. Running back's plus 185. Tight end would intrigue me, though, because you have Kelsey Gray and Goddard.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6876.856

Tight end. Plus 420 first touchdown. I like that.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6908.43

Yeah. I can't see Casey doing it with Mahomes. So it basically come down to Jalen Hurts. And then if you're Sirianni, do you want to rip off the Philly special or play like that? And then it doesn't work. Oh, look at fucking Sirianni. Trying to do the Philly special.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6924.222

But maybe, maybe the 21 to one, just to catch a pass could be interesting.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6977.048

That sounds I could probably get inside info on that. There's some sort of purple something. There's too much action on purple. Maybe it's maybe it's that Luca went to the Lakers. Now it's like a whole purple week.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

6990.525

This is going to be the first. Hold on, I'm going to throw up again. You don't like that? No, just Luca. It makes me physically ill. Yeah. They're like, oh my God, he's lost 25 pounds and LeBron has him using the VersaClimber. It's like, cool. Nobody's going to win the title now for the next seven years.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7015.204

Nothing. He had no idea. He had no idea.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7056.451

I'll never forget when Louis K gave us the inside info and risked his job so we could win that prop. Is Lewis going to be at this thing again? Did we win? Yeah, we won because he told us what was going to happen. He was in the building.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7070.392

It's like the best inside info. I had the flip side of it though. Nick Khan, my friend Nick Khan who runs WWE. Right. We saw his son at UFC a few weeks ago and we were talking Royal Rumble. And his son, Sonny, who's a great kid. And it was like, Sonny, what's going to happen to Rumble? And he goes, John Cena is going to win the world Rumble.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

708.221

It still feels like there's room for them to get one more awesome wing. And then that's the threesome. Wemby awesome wing Fox, and they have two years to figure it out. They're not going to win the title this year. They're not gonna win the title next year, but they have the pieces to figure this out. And as we're seeing now, not just with Fox.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7088.848

And then he's going to wrestle Cody Rhodes at WrestleMania. And we were like, holy shit. And then John Cena was one of the last two. And then he lost. So Sonny swerved us. He's learning from the best. Wow. Wow. If you can't trust WWE. I can't trust a nine-year-old son of the guy who runs WWE.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7112.116

He's like, great job. Good job, son.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7156.147

Makes you almost think it's going to happen after the game. If the NFL was scripted, the Chiefs would win and then he would propose. So eight to one seems high.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7169.533

Also, that's a better bet than Chief's Moneyline because he's not going to propose if they lose. That's true. He's only proposing if they win. Right, right, right. The Chiefs have lost by 10. Hold on. Let's go to the field where Travis Kelsey has a special announcement.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7184.762

It has to be a win.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7205.79

Tommy Alter is my number one.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7213.773

What are the odds of me being in New Orleans? I wish you would go.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7223.173

Oh, that's right.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7225.234

As you know, because you've seen it, New Orleans is terrible for me.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7231.759

I can't handle it. I can't handle it. So that doesn't mean I'm not going to go, but I know that it's a bad city for me.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7249.614

Roy Oysters. You know Roy Oysters. Roy Oysters is a new state of comedian. He's touring with Jeff Ross. He's going to be the first diss track. Yeah. All right. So... The quick setup for Gary Russell, this was a million years ago. We were doing a Super Bowl props, right around when we invented Super Bowl props in the 2000s. And you did the Gary Russell bet. You had this big bet.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7272.148

You were all excited about it. I thought it was going to be like Ben Roethlisberger, 280 yards or whatever it was. Nope. This was Cardinal Steelers Super Bowl. And your big thing was Gary Russell. What was that? To not score a touchdown. To not score a touchdown. You had studied it, researched it.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

728.587

Wemby is becoming a seductive spot in San Antonio for, if you're a player that wants to win, that wants to kind of be along for the ride for some titles and some playoff appearances and a place with no state tax, a really good organization, it becomes pretty enticing. So here's the small market model working.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7294.17

So he scores in the first quarter. And I think we were watching the Super Bowl together and we're just dying laughing. And then we get this email from somebody who said they were at a Super Bowl party. There's a male and a female. They both started laughing. They didn't know who each other were. They were like, do you guys listen? Do you listen to BS Report? And they ended up getting married.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7313.767

So the Gary Russell pod has led to, this pick has led to a marriage.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7329.676

It's the least sexy prop you can bet. But you're Adam and Lee. Hank Hanowski was the best one, I think.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7340.362

Oh, yeah. That one hit. Yeah, Michael Humanoali.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7368.646

I was never going to count you out. I knew you would find something. You weren't going to quit on Gary Russell.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7383.81

Divorce.

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Paul versus Peter

7411.758

Yeah.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7416.099

He did. His name was mentioned a couple of times.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7436.025

Oh, my theory. Yeah, when a guy has really good high school, college, and then the pros. Yeah, they get recognized.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7459.124

Grew up in Michigan, played at Central Michigan University and the University of Michigan. Yep. Fifth round draft pick, six foot one and a half, 251. Oh, stud. He's won two Super Bowls, re-signed with the Chiefs on a three-year, $24 million deal in April 2024. He's not chopped liver, that Mike Dana.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7481.084

Mike Dana. Great one. There we go. All right. That's our Super Bowl prop stuff. So you're doing a whole bunch of stuff this week. You're going to New Orleans. We're going to be doing a bunch of content. And eventually they'll give you a pick. Do you want to do parent corner quick? I could do it. I have one.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7583.965

They've been hinting at it for a month and a half.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7640.484

Wow.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

7643.145

Yeah, that's it. So my son was going away this weekend and I drove him. He was going on some skiing trip, even though he barely skis. And I drove him to a friend's house so he could drop his stuff off there because they were leaving from the friend's house after school. So I drive Ben and his friend to school, which I haven't done in a while. Kid gets in, his friend gets in the back.

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Ben, who was sitting in the front with me, then goes and gets in the back. So now I have no passenger seat. And I don't know what, what's your, what's your stance on this? Cause I'm like, what am I the fucking Uber driver? He's like, well, I didn't want him to be alone in the back. I'm like, cool. There's no, this is crazy. There's nobody in the front seat.

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You guys aren't like eight, like you're 17. Like you should be in the front. He's like, well, I want to sit back here.

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So what are the passenger, what are the parent passenger rules when this happens? Like, cause I really feel like the kid should, your kid should sit in the passenger seat and then she wants to talk to his friend, turn around and talk to him, but don't like leave the passenger seat empty.

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No, they just wanted it. They're both on their phone. I don't even know. Maybe they're texting about me. It would have doofus on them.

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You're watching the road. Yeah, it's weird, man. I don't like it. So I'm on the record with that. Another bank complaint. Now, because we're roughly around the same size, he just comes into my closet and just takes... you know, Oh, I need a, I need a t-shirt that I'm tired of my own t-shirts. I'll just grab one of dad's and he just goes in and he picks. And then I never see a t-shirt again.

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And he also like picks out, he's ruffling through them. So it's like this pile in my shelf. So the whole thing of like, I hope my kid grows and we're around the same size someday. It's actually when it actually happens, it sucks. Cause he's just starts wearing my clothes. And then the third thing was, um,

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He, he wanted to get some ski stuff for the trip and he's like, no, I'm going to do it myself. I'm gonna do it myself. I'm like, all right, this is going to be a disaster. Um, so he's like, no, no, I'm doing it myself. So he goes and he gets a couple of things and, uh, he thinks he's good. And then my wife came home and she's like, I thought we were going to get, no, he's like, I'm good. I'm good.

Renewing Your Mind

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But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Verbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

Renewing Your Mind

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So then he shows this bag of what he got and he got like 40% of the stuff and Is there a bigger heat check than the boys in that 16 to 18 range who are like the, I got this, I got this. And they just are fucking terrible at everything. Yeah. They don't have it. Guess what? You don't have anything. You're driving around with a broken windshield wiper that I told you to fix three weeks ago.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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And then it starts raining and you put the windshield wipers on, you scratch the windshield. Like you don't have anything. It's like, you're not smarter than me. I am positive. I'm smarter than you.

Renewing Your Mind

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Yeah.

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But it's like you become this basketball coach where you're bringing somebody off the bench and the guy's just not listening to the plays and then like dribbling into a triple team. You're basically Bronny James. And you're just like, you're just supposed to run the pivot action to the side. This heat check age that boys have, It just makes me want to punch Ben like twice a week.

Renewing Your Mind

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And he'd probably take me in a fight.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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I told you to get oil. Like I told you. I know you told me. Yeah, but you didn't get the oil.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Does it get better? Archie's now about to hit his 20s. Does it get better?

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Because that was another thing with Ben. Our dog was sick for a week because he put the fucking cake frosting right next to the counter and then he blamed the dog. Right. Well, he shouldn't have gone up there and gotten it. Murph has an IQ of 20. You can't be like, what things he shouldn't have done. He's an idiot.

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I mean, you have one of each. So I don't know. I really think it's a boy thing. I don't. I just think they feel like they're always right. And they're also still stupid because they're not adults yet. And that front part of their brain hasn't fully formed. So it's a rare combination of irrational confidence and lack of experience with everything.

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Yeah, stop suffocating me.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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Yeah. Just leave me alone. And then they're batting 28% on decisions. Sitting in the back seat. And then sitting in the backseat as I'm driving.

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Paul versus Peter

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Yeah. All right, cuz. Good luck in New Orleans. There it is. We missed you. Come down, man. Who knows? Don't rule me out. I can't be ruled out. Good luck with the betting and all the picking this week. And I will see you on Sunday night after the Super Bowl.

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsberry and Sal. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, you can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have new rewatchables coming for you as well. On Monday night, we did Before Sunrise last week, doing Before Sunset On Monday night, that's going up.

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Brought in a fourth person with me and Sean and Chris Ryan to talk about one of my favorite movies of the 2000s. You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. I'm going to see you definitely for another podcast Tuesday or Wednesday. Not sure which day. So stay tuned. See you during the week.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

Renewing Your Mind

Paul versus Peter

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By the way, how is that picked out in this trade? Cause Jalen Johnson just goes out and that Atlanta pick is going to be somewhere probably between nine and 14 in a really loaded draft.

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Paul versus Peter

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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I'm just relieved that, and we got some of it with Chris Paul this year, but you know, I am a big, if you have a big guy, you have to have a good or very good point guard that can take care of them. If I have a good eater in my house, I want to have a good chef to cook for the, if I have a hall of fame eater in my house, not going to go to the crappiest grocery store. I want real meals for my guy.

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Paul versus Peter

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Um, Sacramento, uh, now has a team of Sabonis, Levine, DeRozan, Malik Monk, and Keegan Murray basically as the, I guess, the crunch time five. I guess that means some Monk playing some point, DeRozan having the ball. This is just turning into a let's just play our best five guys together. They don't really have another point guard. Um, maybe they'll try to get one.

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Paul versus Peter

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Maybe they could try to flip an asset into something, but it's just a weird team. And you mentioned earlier, it's a directionless team. It's a team. When we worked at Grantland together 10 years ago, we got a lot of comedy out of, they took Stauskas. What was that with the eighth pick? Yeah. And it was that video of Vivek going around the table like, Stauskas? Stauskas?

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Going around and we all got a kick out of that. They've just been a train wreck forever. Really since 2000. It's been 20 years of this. Then two years ago, they get the two seed. Light the beams happening. They got a little something with Sabonis and Fox together and it feels like they're on the right way. And this year, they fire their coach. They bring in Doug Christie.

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If you missed it, Ryan Rosillo, Rob Hone, and I, on Saturday night, out of nowhere, Luka Doncic gets traded to the Lakers for Anthony Davis and other stuff. And we just hopped right on. We did a podcast. You can find it on YouTube on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can find it on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts. So this is the second podcast of the week. We'll get to that in a second.

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They start winning a couple games. It's like, whoa, okay, feeling good again. And then Fox has that trade request and it craters everything again. They lost by 180 points to OKC yesterday and became clear something was going to happen. What would you tell a Kings fan?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.

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So they were plus eight on threes. Right. And they lost at home. But the key to this game, so Detroit, they shoot eight for 29 from three, no surprise. They've not exactly, Beasley's not going, not exactly like an awesome three-point team. But the Knicks, nine for 25 from three, right? So red flag number one. Red flag number two, Brunson four for 16. And it's hard to tell how hurt he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You can tail or fade my pick. Each week, I'm going to pick a player prop I'm going to go in. I'm going to say what I think is going to happen. You can either believe me or not believe me. I just hit on Sunday, I hit a plus 921 four-leg parlay. It was pretty impressive, I got to say. Let's see if I can keep the momentum going.

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Sometimes you can do, like he got hurt in game four and he came back and you get the adrenaline 20 minutes before your ankle starts to feel even worse than it did. He definitely looked hobbled around. He goes out at some point, probably like what, three, four minutes left in the fourth quarter. Then Tibbs has a chance to put him and Hart back in and doesn't use his last time out.

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And those guys are just standing there for a minute and a half. One of many bizarre Tibbs coaching decisions, but... What you said before about the quarters, this series has been even for a week and a half. And Detroit, they take the leads early in these games or they're close. They're never having really swoons. Their defense and their rebounding has always been able to keep them around.

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And Cade's been... you know, the most consistently good player in the series. I don't... If I'm a Knicks fan now, I'm just putting miles, even if I get through this series, I'm just putting miles on my guys who already seem worn down with the Celtics just getting rest and waiting. But do you think they... Who do you think wins a game six between these two teams based on what you've seen?

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It's like they're afraid he's going to get offensive fouls or something. I can't think of another reason.

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Well, you know my rule, Kirk Goldsberry. What? If you do something and the defense completely overreacts and doubles it because they don't have an answer for it, maybe do it again. Yeah. Give it a whirl. That might be a sign that it's something to do.

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So I have LeBron over nine and a half rebounds, I think is going to be the one. You can either back me or you can go against me. But if you do it, FanDuel is offering you an opportunity to have a 50% boost Either way. So you win if you like what I thought or you want to go against what I thought. Anyway, check out Fando Sportsbook on Wednesday to see what boost I'm betting, what bet I'm boosting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I thought the Knicks were going to win in five. It seemed like they were going to win in five tonight, and then Detroit had other ideas. I just continue to be underwhelmed by the Knicks. And I know now people could say, no, Brunson's hurt. Like, well... everybody on that team plays huge minutes. The more minutes you play, the odds are going to increase that you're going to have an injury.

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It's just the way it goes. But in general, like, I don't know. I'm not afraid of them. I said this before the playoffs. I'll say it again. I was way more afraid of playing Indiana than the Knicks. I think Indiana knows who they are. I think they have an identity. The Knicks, not sure what their identity is. It's a lot of Brunson. It's a lot of standing around. They can have these little spurts.

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Towns can get hot every once in a while. Sometimes their wings... look awesome. Other times, I forget they're out there. For all the quote-unquote awesome defense that their wings were supposed to bring, like, over and over again, you see guys get the kind of shots and plays they want, like Cade.

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You would think, like, with Bridges and Ananobi, it's like, we should be able to shut down Cade or limit him or whatever. And, you know, I don't think that's happened. And a lot of it has to do with CJ being able to get the switches he wanted. I get it. But I just don't, the balance of the team just doesn't seem right to me. And I've felt that way for a while.

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I don't think the fans like it either. You can feel like there's a weird energy from these Knicks games. The crowds were way better last year, I think. This year, there's a nervous energy and you can feel the frustration. It's coming through the TV.

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Well, so that game's going to be when? Is that a Thursday game? That is, yeah. I don't know. That's not great for the Knicks, right? That's two games later and Brunson's hobbling around and Hart got hurt at the end of that game and they have no bench to begin with.

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The Celts punted on Holiday for the series and kept their fingers crossed that he could get healed and they got out of it.

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Well, I want to talk about that. Let's take a quick break. We'll talk Boston-Orlando. Hey, it's NBA playoff time. Get in on the action with FanDuel Sportsbook, our friends, America's number one sportsbook. You think you know it's gonna go down? Well, check out Wednesdays because you can make those predictions count with the Hump Day Parlay Profit Boost.

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I just told you what it was. And then you can apply that profit boost. I love when the customers ride with me. I've been decent. So there you go. Coming up on this podcast. Kurt Goldsberry and I, we watched four basketball games. I was watching some hockey too. And we're reacting right afterwards to everything we saw.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Weekly parlay specials tied to top point scores, double doubles, whatever you want. I'm also gonna be doing a little special gimmick that you can find on FanDuel Sportsbook. where you can tail or fade me. I'm going to release my prop on Wednesday for the Lakers-Timberwolves game. And I think it's going to be LeBron over under rebounds because I like the over. I think it's nine and a half.

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But you can tail me on that or you can go against me. You can have either choice. Choose your own adventure. Don't be a spectator during this awesome NBA postseason. Head to findle.com slash BS and download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more. You can do hump day bets. You can do my little tail or fade bet.

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Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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You must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C., Opt-in required bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration of max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fando.com. Game problem call 1-800-GAMER. Visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant.

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Remember last year, people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula? One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? Degree listened. They admitted they messed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent, and thank God. You've got to love when a brand can own its mistakes.

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And it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores right now for under $4. Grab some. Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant. for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers. The original degree cool rushes back and it smells like victory for all of us.

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So Boston, Orlando, I was expecting a little bit more of a slugfest. It was a weird game. It was close. It was close. It was close. Palo got in foul trouble. And then the Celts went on one of those runs that they had a lot last year. They've had them intermittently this year, but more on the road than at home, weirdly.

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But they'll just have these third quarters or second quarters, whatever, where they'll just go on these 28-5 runs and guys are hitting threes and they just put the game away in five minutes, which is what happened. I will say... And I know I talk about Tatum a lot on this podcast and people are probably tired of it, but he's just, Tatum's just been awesome.

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And there's an edge to him that he just didn't have last year. And I think a lot of it comes from Missoula. I think Missoula spends a lot of time talking to him, talking in his ear, motivating him, pushing him, pushing to be bully, pushing to be tougher. Even that play when he got knocked down, when he got hurt in game two. or game one, and Mazula's like, get up, get up.

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He's just constantly trying to make him a beast, and you see it in these games. He's carrying himself down. He's got this little half sneer he does sometimes. I just think he's been awesome in these games. Is the new wrist thing

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It feels like you tried to break my wrist, but it's still here. Like one of those type of things.

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But the thing is, Orlando can't shoot. And... you know, they were the over under for them winning a game in this series was probably 0.5. They won their game, but they just cannot, they can't shoot. There was that as it was slippery in the third quarter, Franz took a three and it went like over the backboard and hit the, over the rim and hit the other side of the backboard.

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And then a little bit later, Zach Lowe, he came on last week on a Tuesday and we banged something fun. We did it again this week. We want to talk about Draymond Green and we want to look forward to Timberwolves Lakers. So that is the podcast today. First, our friends from Pearl Jam.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was one of those bricks. And it was just like, that's it. That's the highlight you need to know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, they didn't. They didn't have a three in the first in the first half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think the Celtics organization... has been really impressed with Orlando. And I think there's a sense of relief that that team wasn't healthier this year, that that team was probably the third best team in the East. If you just, you know, you think like Palo goes down for a while, Franz goes down for a while, Suggs goes down for... 60, 65% of the year. But that team is really tough.

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They're not afraid of the Celts. They match up on the wings with Brown and Tatum, at least physically. They rebound. They had a couple of playoff guys that weren't afraid to close on you. And I think if they just had a healthy team all year, I think that team would have been really good. And looking forward, like we were joking with Saruti about, you got to sign Ty Jerome.

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Bobby Marks had a tweet where he tweeted where they were sitting going into the summer. they've kind of paid the Piper already with some of their moves. They're like over, I think 200 million with their salaries right now. Cause Palo already kicked in Franz, you know, they paid KCP going down the line. Like they're, they're spending actual money now. And I don't, this is kind of the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So their best move is going to be Ken Suggs, come back, be healthy. And then can Anthony black make a leap? I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the Souths definitely respected them because they brought Tatum back. They probably should have waited one more game and they felt like they couldn't. And then they tried to roll the dice with not playing Drew and hoping he could be healthy for the Knicks series. Now he gets more time. But with the way the Knicks look, that second round series might not be as maybe grueling as you thought.

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If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

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I mean, the way the Knicks look, the way the Celtics have looked for the last almost two years, they have to be pretty heavy favorites to advance to round three. Indiana... had an incredible comeback against Milwaukee that I wasn't surprised by even when they were down seven with 45 seconds left. I had India and Moneyline in a bet and I was like, I'm not giving up.

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I feel like they might make a three. I didn't expect them to win. I thought maybe they had a chance to force another overtime. But Halliburton, and I'm texting, I have a friend who's a big Halliburton person and I was texting midway through the fourth quarter. I'm like, typical fucking Halliburton. God forbid he takes over and does anything. And then he took over and then some.

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Like down the stretch in the fourth quarter. It's almost like he forgets sometimes that he could just go right by people. And what was interesting about the end of the fourth quarter in the OT, he went by Giannis. He cooked Giannis, I'm going to say three or four times. You don't normally see somebody do that to Giannis. Including for the game-winning shot, I was stunned.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I thought Buckner. No, don't worry. I thought it. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, the dude, he hadn't had 30 points all year and he hadn't had eight threes all year. And he did it twice in three games. Trent, right? He literally carried them down the stretch and then had two boneheaded plays that cost them the season, basically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Recording this part of the podcast, 9.45 Pacific time, I thought the Clippers-Denver game was going to be a lot better. I thought Kirk Goldsberry and I would be talking about all these unbelievable narratives. Instead, all the narratives came in the first game of the day, in the second game of the day, and then the games got worse as they went along.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's a lot of interesting stuff, both from watching the game and the box score. Yeah. Brooke Lopez, seven minutes. Kyle Kuzma, 12 minutes. So Doc basically bailed on Kuzma, who was somebody they traded Middleton for, beloved buck, to get under the salary cap. They gave up A.J. Johnson, who some NBA people kind of like. And there's some swap, I think in 28, that they gave up as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it took Doc Rivers about four games to get tired of Kyle Kuzma. Giannis leaves a 30-20-13 on the court. including 18 defensive rebounds. And the game ends with him getting burned by Halliburton and then taunted by Halliburton's dad, who just looked deranged. I didn't understand what was happening. And I can't believe Giannis had the restraint.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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But then Giannis is saying good game to Ben Mathurin. And now he's like doing the Fredo Michael Corleone cup for the head. And just looked like he was going to... Everyone was talking about this 100 guys against a gorilla. It seemed like it was going to be 100 Pacers versus Giannis at one point. The Artest Melee too. Dude, what an ending.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Giannis was so mad. And Giannis does a good job in the press conferences of being like, you know, I try to be humble and blah, blah, blah. But Giannis is a fucking badass, man. He gets mad. Oh, yeah. The switch can go off with him. I really felt like there was going to be a massive melee at the end, which would have been bizarre.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Remember that other time when he went and grabbed the ball? Yeah, it was Mike Dunleavy Jr. That other time when he grabbed the ball from Indiana that started this whole... Yeah, so he gets a little feisty.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But Denver kind of put it on the Clippers tonight, Kirk. I did not see this coming. I thought Denver was lucky to be 2-2. I thought the Clippers were a better team. And Jamal Murray became playoff Jamal Murray again tonight. Harden was invisible. Where do you want to start? What jumped out to you tonight?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Also, in that building, which I know you've probably been there for a game, right? It's that and the Clippers Arena are the two best arenas. And just cool that that happened right there. I thought Neesmith, You look at the minutes, and it's not really an accident. Halbert and Siakam, Nembhard, Neesmith, and Turner just all playing huge minutes. Four of those guys were over 40.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Matherin, he switched the rotation a little. So Matherin and McConnell basically just come in for these little eight, nine-minute stretches. That's it. Some top end, not that much. But I think when we go to this next round, and I continue to think that they have a real chance against Cleveland to at least take it six or seven. throw some punches at them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But this Halburn piece, when he realizes he can get to the rim, who's stopping him on Cleveland? This is a good matchup for him. They don't really have a good defender to throw at him. I don't know. I just think they can hang in this series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Yeah, let's do it. Wait, can we do one more thing on Indiana? And then let's do Milwaukee.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Cleveland minus 480. Oh, dang. Yeah. I'm telling you, nobody's respecting the Pacers. All right, let's move to Milwaukee because... that did feel like I, sometimes you, you have a feeling when it's a guy's last game for a team. I remember LeBron in 2010. Yeah. Leaving Boston in a very strange last game in general by him, but then taking off his Jersey right at the end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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And there's something, some, he just felt like, oh man, this is probably not ending. Well, the honest thing ended a little differently and almost ended with a melee, but, uh, I'd find it hard to believe he's going to be a buck next year. I don't see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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I did the Woz Mahoney trade deadline pod and I was on the record adamantly. I did not see the Kuzma thing at all because he hadn't played a meaningful basketball minute or a good basketball minute for like a year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can we blame him a little? Because they did that Drew Holiday trade for Damian Lillard. because they were feeling some pressure with him to do something because they weren't sure if he wanted to stay or not. I thought it was a panic trade when it happened. I was in the minority, but they gave up swaps in 20 and 30. They gave up their 29 first.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They gave up Grayson Allen, who at least was a bigger contract they could put in a deal. And when you think about it, they kind of shot their asset wide with Damon Giannis that I just never believed that made them like a favorite in the East. I thought it was a little bit of a Hail Mary. And would they have been better off keeping Drew?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Maybe using those picks with Grace Now and Chris Middleton, whoever, and trying to add another piece to the foundation? I mean, in retrospect, yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Well, it starts with the original Drew Holiday trade, which helped win them the title. Right. But also included their 24 and 26 firsts and swaps in 25 and 27, plus the George Hill-Bledsoe contracts that they kind of were trying to get off of as part of the trade. But they're playing asset catch-up after that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the red flag was when Lazareed, the co-owner of He finished his managing partner thing and then he's like, I'm out of here. And he sold this steak to the Browns owner. I was like, oh, that's curious. And it was like, you know, he was like 2008, the big short. He knew it was coming. Where do you want Giannis to go?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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San Antonio is the high upside, holy shit, like galaxy brain explosion. And they have the assets, right, to do it. But that would be the one that I think made everybody go, oh no, what's that going to look like? I think that's a pretty weird fit

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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in some ways offensively, but in other ways, the fact that Wemby wants to be 25 feet from the basket and Giannis should probably be playing closer to the basket. Maybe that fits, but defensively, that sounds like an all-time nightmare from how are you going to attack the room against those two guys? You might as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. I mean, Russell and I talked about it a little on Sunday, just like the obvious one's Houston. Cause they have the, the problem for Milwaukee is they don't really have their picks. So it's not like they'd, you know, it's not like it makes sense for them to tank because what are they tanking for? They don't have their picks to tank for.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So what makes more sense is like them doing a two for one and a three for one and getting a couple assets back with that. So that's, that's the Rockets basically. That's one. And I think you're probably trying to get some sort of big piece. The Knicks are the other one that I think would be mildly intriguing if it was a town's, Bridges, Giannis going back with a contract. You start doing that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, if you said before the game, Jamal Murray's going to have his best game of the playoffs and his best game in a while, and also Russell Westbrook's going to come off the bench and score 21 points in 23 minutes, I would have said, uh-oh, the Clippers are in trouble. But I'm with you. They look slow to the ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's in the same spot there that he's in with Milwaukee. Miami sucks. I agree. They just got absolutely annihilated in the Cleveland series. They had their whole team. It's not like somebody was missing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, well, we'll see. I don't think he's there next year, though. It did feel like there was some sort of finality to it. But you never know with these guys. The key to me is he already won the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So when you've already won, it's like, ah, I don't know. I like it here. But there's always been some Brooklyn buzz. The problem with a team like Brooklyn is can you give the assets back that actually makes sense for Milwaukee who can't tank? What's the point of Milwaukee going 20 and 62 next year if their pick is going somewhere else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do they rig the draft for Cooper Flagg for the Spurs like they did with Tim Duncan in 1997 or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the good thing is there's other good guys. Like even if you get the third or fourth pick in this draft, you're going to get somebody who's like, even Edgecombe is like a real guy. Like if he, the Spurs got him and put him with Castle and all their wings, like that's an amazing outcome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Or they send both of them to Milwaukee in the Giannis trade. Giannis and Wemby. I mean, talk about an international basketball team. That's like the league's wet dream.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Giannis is the greatest international story they've ever had other than Hakeem. And, and Wemby is going to be the true galaxy face of the league. They're hoping four or five years from now, unless Anthony Edwards takes that too. Who do you have in Minnesota Lakers?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There was a moment in the fourth quarter for about four or five minutes where they looked like they did earlier in the series, but other than that... The Harden thing is just dumbfounding. He's now in his mid-30s. He was in the 2008 draft, 2009 draft? I can't even remember.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but Denver did the same thing on Saturday and it worked. And now we don't have to hear about it anymore because they won the game. JJ did it. I'm not defending JJ. I don't understand why you would have paid Gabe Vinson for five minutes. He was, I feel okay with Gabe Vinson out there. I didn't get that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Sports basketball, playoff basketball. No, it's the best. Sadly, it's going to be over soon. Have you seen anything that makes you think it's not going to be Boston? Okay. See,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And this has just been such a huge part of his resume, his career, how we're going to remember him 30 years from now as this amazing player. And just over and over again, it wasn't quite there in the playoffs. They really needed a big James Harden game Either last game or this game. One of those two. Does he have it in him anymore? Maybe we're, are we expecting too much?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Mitchell always does well against Celtics. They always get games. It'll be a good series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't either, but who knows with this Minnesota piece. And who knows with Golden State, because Golden State's loved playing OKC forever. And, you know, I'm just, if I had to bet, I would stick with my preseason OKC Boston. But I think Minnesota and Golden State, and then the way Denver played tonight, who knows. All right, Kirk Goldsberry. Writing for TheRinger.com, popping on our podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, our friend Zach Lois here. We're taping this before the four Tuesday games, but also before the two Wednesday games. And it's an awesome doubleheader of Golden State Houston. Lakers, T-Wolves. I covered it on my pod on Sunday. You covered it on the Zach Lowe show on Monday. But we're here to talk about Draymond Green. Then we can talk about those games at the tail end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Last week, we did Kawhi. We deep dove. This week, we're going to do Draymond, and we're going to deep dive. You wrote about him, I think, two years ago, maybe right after the pool incident.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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One of the things I was thinking about as we go into this, it's felt a couple times over the last three years that we might be at the end of the road with Draymond and the Warriors, right? And the pool punch was the first time. The second time was when are they going to be able to figure out his contract or not?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then even this year, when it didn't really seem like they had any moves, and the question became, well, I mean, maybe would Draymond be somebody that they might be trying to flip? He feels, I don't want to say on thin ice, but it's felt a little rocky. And now I feel the best about it that I felt probably since the, uh, the 22 finals, but even the 22 finals, he was getting yanked around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think he looked particularly great. He looks great now. And this Curry Draymond thing is now officially over a decade. And there's something really unique and special about it. Um, that just continues to persevere and you could feel it in that Houston game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cause I voted for him for 13 mile NBA this year. I thought maybe, you know, one of the first five games he could, he could own, I guess not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's the hardest thing to find in professional basketball now with the way guys move around. with the way now we have this first, second apron. I'm always thinking like we had the last episode of Celtic City and it's built around Brown and Tatum and it's just like, I don't even know if it's sustainable to have two guys making a max once it gets into the 60s, 70s anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What Brown and Tatum have, I don't think remotely approaches the Draymond-Curry thing because those guys actually had figured out how to elevate each other, which I think is the last level when you're talking teammates.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Clay was in there too, but really, Draymond, you could feel when Draymond wasn't in the game, what it meant to Curry, all the little pick and pops and handoffs and just that ESP that they had for each other. I can't think of, when I was growing up, they always talked about how the 70s Knicks had that I think Bird and McHale kind of got there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Jordan and Pippen almost defensively as athletes became so attuned. They almost seemed like a pair after a while. It's really hard to get to. And with Draymond, I always felt like there was going to be a shelf life and it was going to flame out. And he was just being more and more erratic as his career went on. He had the podcast. He's becoming unlikable in a lot of ways too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, you're just teetering on this balance beam with him. And he gets that first technical, and then you instantly get the flashbacks to 2016 Game 4. I'll always think LeBron knew what he was doing. I think it was a smart play. He tried to bait Draymond into retaliating, knowing that one more anything and Draymond was suspended for the next game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I remember he started playing when we were working together at Grantland. And it was the early days of the five-man lineups and the plus-minus stuff. Really early, like primitive. People are carving it out in stone, the numbers, trying to figure it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, you get like a virus if you download it in the websites. But there was some stuff with David Lee, and it was one of the first times. Because I remember there was that Grizzlies season. And I was on TV that year with Memphis where the Rudy Gay lineups versus the non-Rudy Gay lineups.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But remember they trade him and everyone went nuts. And the people who were actually like kind of studying this shit were like, eh, they might not miss him. And then they make the Western finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But there was a similar thing going on with David Lee, who had good stats, good counting stats, hustled, was the type of guy that in the old school way would be like, like that guy, good jump hook, like he does some good stuff. And he was a, you know, a good starter. But Draymond was in there and the lineups took off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's the Tom Brady. They passed on him every round until the sixth round. Same thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, he always had the confidence, right? So he won in high school and he won in college. And then he came to the pros. He wasn't playing that much. And I remember I was on Countdown. It might have been the 2013 season. We were talking about the Warriors in the playoff, 2013 or 14. And we were talking about how nobody could shoot on the Warriors other than Staff and Clay. I forget what it was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I made some joke about, you don't want Draymond throwing up bricks or stuff like that. And he came at me on Twitter. And I was like, look at this guy. I kind of like the face of this. So it was like, all right, that's cool. But he always kind of carried himself. Like, you guys don't realize how good I am yet. And then 2015, once Lee gets hurt and the rest is history.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I always think about luck with this stuff. Where you think, you know, it just became a story again recently about Bogut talking about the thing that I thought everybody knew, that Milwaukee had the choice between Ellis and Curry in that trade. And Curry's ankles were so... Are you dubious of that one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I always heard they gave them the choice. I don't think Lakob will ever admit it. Was Lakob even there at that point? He was, right? Whoever the owners were? Yeah. Cause I think there was this real feeling that Curry's ankles were always going to be an issue, you know, that, that this was never going to be a thing that healed. So you get luck with that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's luck number two. Luck number three is the Kevin Love trade, which is one of the most polarizing organizational should we do this or not sagas probably ever. To the point that they're asking people like us, would you do this? Wouldn't that have been ultimately, would that have been David Lee with Clay and maybe even Draymond in that trade too?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think Kerr was one of those who was like, I think the shooting that we have is like really special.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do you think he had like a winning time tantrum? Like the guy in winning time, do you throw a chair through the glass window?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, now we have the half court logo, Ben Simmons. he gets to the half core logo and he stops dribbling. Um, but then the other, the other luck thing was, uh, was the cap spike in 16 and all of these things come together. And really the only unlucky break, I mean, until 2019, the only unlucky break was that dream on, you know, punching LeBron in the balls. Have you watched that clip recently?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I have not. It is the most doobie. I forgot how awful it was. It might be number one for me for the league stepping in and trying to push a narrative. It is awful. It's comes up. He kind of swing because LeBron's standing over him. Like they get caught up and he's just standing over him like a little almost baiting him. And Draymond gets up and he kind of waves his hand.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I just still can't believe that happened. Because if you remember from what's the score in that Bucks game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I did a rare tweet. I tweeted that they had him guarding Jokic in the second half so we could remember that he was in the game because it was too hard to tell. They're built so that they could survive...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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so I want to talk about that game really quick is game four. When Draymond gets kicked out or gets the flagrant at the end or whatever it was, they go into Cleveland. They're up to one in the series. It's probably one of my favorite five Warriors games from that whole Curry era because they lay the smack down. Like Cleveland, they're toe to toe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Pulled away down the stretch and we're leaving that game going. They definitely have the best team. This is going to be the greatest season in the history of the NBA. And then the suspension happens in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, because Bogut was already out. And Curry was, Curry had the, what was his ankle injury? So they were kind of limping to the finish line as it was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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kind of an offensive no-show game from harden yeah the problem for them was denver denver went up a notch they kind of stayed the same denver got westbrook back which was huge for them because that was just 23 extra minutes from a bench guy they played jordan a little bit more i'm with you maybe the elevation going against an older team helped a tiny bit um

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The side of finals like that. And it was bogus. I feel like it was bogus. The Robert Horace shove. Um, when he shoved current to the scores table and a couple of, uh, current, uh, Nash into the scores table and a couple of Nash's teammates responded because you're going to, you're going to move toward your guy who just got decked in the scores table.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I thought that, and I thought the Miami, New York thing, uh, in the late nineties was those were the three that really stayed out to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The other thing is he comes back, Cavs blow them away in game five, game six, but Draymond comes back from game seven and plays the best game of his career. And I think he single-handedly keeps him in the game because Curry is running on fumes of his fumes of his fumes at that point. That game got super tense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The last five minutes is an all-time rock fight after LeBron hits the two threes over Azili because the Warriors are a guy short. And that Draymond game's wasted and he's I don't want to say he's the reason they didn't win the title that year, but that incident, I think they went in five. I just think they go back to Golden State and finish it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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of history. So I was talking about glue guys, right? He's better than a glue guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You, he's not, obviously not like a star role player. That seems too low too. But in the piece you wrote that you used their noun amplifier, how he amplified Steph and all these different ways. And I was thinking like, that's the right word amplifier. So I was going through like my favorite amplifiers. Because I think that feels like it's more status, right? It's that you're not a role player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're not a glue guy. You're like, I am actually better than a role guy. And not only that, but if you put me next to an awesome guy, I'm going to make that guy better. So Rodman, I think, is an all-time amplifier. I think Ben Wallace got there. In the mid-2000s, 03 to 07. Horry is a classic example. Seven titles, but you could kind of fit him in. He didn't need the ball. He could guard whoever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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He could guard different positions. You could always count on him to come through when it mattered. Michael Cooper. Bobby Jones. Paul Silas. KC Jones was the famous one from the Russell Celtics. And then there's some... There's two old, I put older in front of these guys' names. Older Andre Iguodala. Okay. So we're like around 15 range, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Coming up, I'm going to talk about a new sport I just heard about, basketball. It's next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables last night. We did Someone to Watch Over Me. It is a movie with Tom Barringer, Mimi Rogers, and Lorraine Bracco from 1987, directed by Ridley Scott. It is an absolute cable classic. It was a one for us, for me and Chris Ryan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then, you know, I start thinking about some of the stuff I used to write about back when my fingers worked. And this is a Clippers team that has just been snakebitten really since they moved to Southern California.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He could have been the best guy on a 45-win team in his prime, but older version. And then I think older Drew Holiday, too. Kind of the Bucs, Celtics era. And then the only other two I have, and they're maybes for me, are Derek Fisher and Bruce Bowen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I wanted to mark him down. But I think of all those guys, I think Draymond might have been the best amplifier. I think he might be the number one amplifier.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And that loss they had game four where they fought all the way back and then they lose on an alley-oop where the ball seemed like it was touching the tip of Aaron Gordon's fingers and it ends up counting because they couldn't overrule it. And that loss was so devastating. I'm watching the game tonight. I'm like, man, Maybe that beat the fight out of them a little bit. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Those four and threes you mentioned, he's got to be in the running for the best one in that situation. We see it all the time now, right? Even the Nuggets Clippers series, the Nuggets are trying to put Zubats in that situation. He's been doing really well. Those guys are really good at it. Hartenstein, they'll try to put him. Horford is somebody that gets in that situation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But through the league... When teams are trying to take out somebody, oh, let's do four and three and the guy at the foul line will make the bad decision. The thing with Draymond is the Warriors just know how to cut. It was amazing to watch Butler immediately fit into that, right? It took him like 10 seconds to be like, oh, if they're going to do that, I'm just going to cut. I'll get layups.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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It was hard to recognize in the moment for a little while because we were so used to these six foot six undersized guys getting drafted, going 15 picks too late. There was that whole Brandon Bash generation of NBA player in the 2000s. Where it was like, they couldn't shoot threes. They were bangers. They were second round picks or low value guys. They were all missing something, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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They were either three inches too short or they couldn't really rebound. David West was probably the best version of all of them. And Draymond just seemed like, oh, he's going to be in that bucket. And then to watch the player that he became. And then we didn't even mention the competitiveness. I don't think anybody...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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has ever been more of an alpha who probably, um, has a worse basketball reference page. Right. If, if like, we can't look this up on stat head on basketball reference, but it's like, who, who has the lowest points per game who carries himself like an alpha, he might be in the running.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It would have been funny if Emeo Doka was like, have you seen the other guys on my team? Where else was that going to go? Was it going to be the Fred VanVleet step back? Like, what were my other options? Did you watch Jalen Green tonight?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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He was engaged. He was engaged. Imei with four seconds left and no timeouts. Leaving Adams and Shangoon out there for the Scramble 3 situation was incredible. I don't know if he just passed out. I would have dusted off Reed Shepard and just been like, can you just do a Peyton Pritchard impersonation? I know you haven't played all series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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The other team knows it's coming. Going back to the amplifier thing and what you said about how unique Draymond is, if you take all the other best amplifiers... I don't think any of them work as well as he works with the Warriors because of the passing and the four-on-three stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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If you just put Ben Wallace on the Warriors, let's take that five-year Ben Wallace run and make it 10 years, and they would have been better from a rebounding standpoint. Defense, I'm not sure he would have been able to guard as many types of guys that Draymond guarded, but he was an incredible defensive player there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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and you don't really get anything else, and you get terrible foul shooting, and you start listing like, oh, well, you also get this, and that doesn't work. I can't even think of anybody else I would put in. Can you? It's almost like Hartenstein, but a more playmaking version of him, but for 10 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Well, like the 17 Warriors, which I think have a real case, especially as the years pass for best team. I don't know if I'd vote for them, but I think they have a case. And one of the cases is when you're putting out Draymond and Iguodala and Clay, who was a really, really good defender in the mid-2000s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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You have those three guys out there at the same time with Curry and then Durant as the 6'11 Spider-Man can protect the rim and do all these different things. That might be the best five-man lineup I've seen in person. Even the Bulls always had somebody who was a little bit iffy on the movie poster.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They broke the 2017 Cavs, and now as the years pass, it seems like the Cavs were like the underdog in the relationship. Meanwhile, they won the lottery three out of four years. They had Kyrie Irving. They traded a number one pick for Kevin Love. They had all these expensive role players like Tristan Thompson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think they had, what, one of the five biggest payrolls in the league, and they had LeBron James still in his prime. That was not hickory high, trying to make it through the tournament in Indiana in 1954.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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What's the best LeBron team to you? Tangent. We're still talking about Draymond, but tangent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think the first maybe two thirds of that 2013 Miami season is the answer. But when they got to the playoffs, it wasn't just that it got a little rocky with them. I thought Wade... That was when he really started to break down a little bit. And he just didn't feel like Dwayne Wade in the same way anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I do think the streak... Which was just great. I think the streak had a little do with that. I think it took a lot out of those guys. But I would say 2013. I also think, hard to say with COVID, what happens in that 20 season. But if you look back at the guys on that team, it's a pretty good team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Legit championship team. You have Davis, who's in his late 20s. You got Caruso in there. You have Caldwell Pope. You have Kuzma before he kind of went off the rails. And by the way... You got Dwight Howard protecting the rim. That team was talented.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The 20... Well, that was the year. That was the Durant-Clay combo injury.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that was also a COVID draft. I got to defend them a tiny bit on that. That draft, you go back in that draft, that draft is bonkers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that should have been Franz. How did they not know to take the IQ 6'9 forward guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, and you think like big picture with the Clippers, It's never easy with them in a playoff series. In the history of their franchise since they moved to Southern California, they've never won a playoff series in four or five games ever. Think about how impossible that is. That's crazy. They had the 2021 where Kawhi is averaging 30 a game and looking like one of the best guys in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Also, Klay and Draymond at weird points of their career where we weren't even sure if they were elite guys anymore or not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, and the game four, I'm with you. That one meant so much to the kind of Steph career, resume, all that stuff. But also, it seemed like they were never going to be in that situation again. You didn't even mention the Suns. That was another one. Were the Suns coming off the finals? What were they, like 50-6 at one point?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Just seeming like they're heading back and then just falling apart against... Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What's up? Let's take a quick break. All right, a couple more Draymond things, then I want to talk quickly about Golden State Houston. The generational defensive belt, which I'm not going to subject you to all the names since Bill Russell. I did make a list. Okay. But I think Draymond versus Rudy, basically for the post-Kawaii era, which is about the moment he steps on Zaza's foot,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All the way through is the argument for the last eight years. I would say Draymond. There's some nerds out there that would be resolute about Gobert and the Gobert rim protection stats. Gobert has more defensive player of the years. I think he's had more season to season probably success, but that's the argument for the last eight years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you're going to pick one guy who has the belt, it's those two, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He gets hurt. They end up losing the Western Finals. Only time they ever made it. They blew the 3-1 lead to Denver in 2020. They blew that 19-point lead to the Rockets in 2015 when they had a chance to close and go to the West Finals. They blew that OKC series in 2014 when Chris Paul, the point guard, just completely fell apart in game five when they could have had a lead coming back to Clippers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Steve Kerr said Draymond was the single best defensive player he's ever seen after game four. And he's been touting Draymond's defense a lot. He actually lobbied for him for defensive player of the year, which he doesn't. He's not a big award lobbyer, that Steve Kerr. But he played with Scottie Pippen. And he played with Dennis Rodman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I was just surprised. And Tim Duncan. But I mean, Pippen... That's a tough one. I would love to put like three drinks into Steve Kerr 10 years from now and he's not coaching Draymond anymore and actually get the actual answer for, is Draymond actually the best defensive player he's ever seen?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'll go through it quick. It was Draymond versus Rudy. So we're both going to say Draymond. Kawhi by himself. By the way, I thought of you when I was at that Clipper game Saturday and Kawhi just took the ball from Jamal Murray.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm going to go take the ball now. Jamal's like, wait, you can't take the ball. I said, no, I'm going to actually take it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Every time he does that, I thank you. I think Dwight Howard's in there for a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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08 KG, I think, has the belt by himself. Before him, Ben Wallace. And then it's a three-headed battle for a while between Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Rasheed Wallace. who I think has been lost in history now. But Rasheed Wallace was just an awesome defensive player when they decided to put him next to Ben Wallace.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And people still seem to think that Lakers series was like, whoa, that was weird. It's like Detroit killed them in that series. Anyway, would have them. Then there's like a GP versus Mutombo mid to late 90s kind of argument. Okay. Which... I'd probably, I don't even know where I land. I'd probably default toward GP for a little bit there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I'm just saying that Robinson won defensive player of the year a couple of times, but Hakeem was... Admiral was incredible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Hakeem also, the block steal stuff, that was one of my book, I made up the word stocks because it was like, there was just nothing like this guy putting up basically like seven blocks and steals a game. Pippen versus Robben was another one. And then it starts getting harder after that. But I do want to shout out Bobby Jones. I have another Draymond thing for you really quick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So from 2015 through 2025, he did not average 10 points a game. 9.6 points a game, 7.5 rebounds, and 6.6 assists.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Those are his per-game averages for like 11 years. 46% field goal, 32% from three. In the playoffs, that bumps up to basically 12, 9, and 6. But I was like, wow, that's weird. I wonder if anyone has anything remotely that looks like that. So I rigged basketballreference.com Who averaged nine points or less?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They had that 2006 against the Suns when they put in Daniel Ewing and he fouled Roger Bell on a three and the Suns ended up winning an OT. This is just the legacy of this team. And if you talk to any of their fans, it's almost a little like Junior Red Sox-ish before 2004. They build the hopes up. They convince themselves this is the year, and then they get kicked in the nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, stat muse, I don't try. Brassell and I hate stat muse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Under nine points, over five assists, and then rebounds, whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Everyone else is a guard. It's like Jose Calderon, Avery Johnson, Muggsy Bogues, Dick McGuire, Nate McMillan, Eric Snow, Brevin Knight, TJ McConnell, Rory Sparrow. This is like guys who played 600 games or more. And Draymond has way more rebounds than any of them, obviously. But there's like... Even basketball reference is like, I don't know what to make of this. I don't know. You got me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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I wonder if they should add almost like in chess where you have what's an ELO score for chess. Mm-hmm. I almost wonder if basketball reference should just randomly assign ELO scores defensively for every player. Like Draymond would be like, what, like a 97?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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yeah so that's that's basically all my Draymond stuff other than I don't know how much longer this goes there's a weird they've done a lot about this this year next year the contracts are aligned this is our last dance I don't know if I necessarily believe that but what's been cool is watching Butler and Draymond and that play yesterday it was like

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Draymond, like, they're going to go to Shengu and I'm going to stop him. And Jimmy's like, and I'm going to get the rebound. And then Jimmy comes flying in. He probably has, what, like 10 pounds of Toradel shot in his ass at that point. And it's starting to wear off. And he comes flying in and gets the ultimate Jimmy Butler in traffic rebound. Holds the ball, protects it, gets fouled.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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And he's like, that was my rebound. That was my rebound. Like the combo of those two guys, they're both insane. The rebound...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Forces a 14-footer when it should have been a 9-footer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I thought the Rockets were going to win last night. I wasn't expecting the Jalen Green stink bomb, but they did get a crazy Van Vliet game. But it came down to the fear. If you're taking the Rockets in this series... The fear was, what's going to happen late in games when both teams have to execute? How is this going to play out? And it executed. It happened the way it happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I still think they can win game six. What's a little scary is that Jokic didn't put a lot of miles on himself tonight. Murray carried everything. Westbrook carried some. They were able to arrest him. And he could just snap his fingers in Game 6 and dominate them like he did in Game 4. It's looking bleak for the Clippers. I might have been wrong on this series, Kirk. I'm bummed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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The reason I thought the Rockets were going to win because I didn't think Steph was going to have a big game. Because he put out so much on Saturday night. I was like, well, they're not getting that again. And Butler's hurt. How are they going to get to 100 points? I didn't realize Dylan Brooks was going to talk shit to Butler and just activate playoff Jimmy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And now it just feels like the rockets are going sideways and we're just going to wait for the honest trade now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Right. And there's been other guys over the years like that too. Remember when Ron Artest just elbowed James Harden in the head and basically knocked him out? And I don't think it was intentional, but I also think it was the same thing. It was like, hey, my elbow needed to go forward and that guy's head happened to be in the way and I had to do it. Some guys...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Bowen, it was never an accident, I never felt like. It was maybe a partial accident, but he would kick his... What was that? He kicked somebody in the face running by a three that time, remember? I can't remember who it was. He did. We kicked him right in the face.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Draymond with five fouls is the other one. He had five fouls yesterday. It felt like for an hour. And he's just doing the vertical, stopping everybody and never gets the sixth foul. It's pretty crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He never does that. And I notice that every time I'm in person and Saturday, it was at another level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No. Oh, he, I just, To me, there's so many litmus tests for how much people are actually watching basketball. And one of them is if somebody tries to tell me Jokic is a shitty defensive player, it's like, go fucking watch him in person. Just blow up plays. Just be like, are you going to do that? I'm going to dive right as you're about to do that pass.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now you're jumping in the air because you thought you had that guy. And now you're just kind of throwing it over your head. He's spooky. how he can reach it. He had a pass after the game three where they doubled him at the top, the top of the key.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Chris Dunn was in the corner on Christian Brown and he kind of leaked over and Jokic was facing the other way like this and Christian Brown is behind him this way. Chris Dunn comes over. He feels Chris Dunn and just whips the pass to Christian Brown. That's his signature. If you watch it, you're like, there's 10 seconds where you don't know he's there. How did you know he was there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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What was crazy about that play was he didn't know it was Chris Dunn who was coming over to double him. So he had to... Also, no, instinctively, Chris Dunn is coming over to double me, even though I can't see him. And then when he does that, it's like some fucking Star Wars shit when they put the helmet on Luke Skywalker. And they're like, Luke, just use the force. Like, he can do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6209.881

I think this has been an awesome basketball round of games. And we don't even know what's going to happen in these four that are about to happen. Quickly, Golden State, who do you think... you'd think they'd much rather play the Lakers or kind of would rather play the Lakers or wouldn't really want to play either if you had to guess, assuming they get there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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Especially from four weeks ago when they went head-to-head.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6280.068

Yeah, and plus there's the Edwards. How real is this? This is last year. So here it is. Anthony Edwards has joined the party. He's now a superstar. And this year there's now this next step that might be happening. I don't want to jinx it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6301.288

If you're starting a franchise right now, I want to do first text segment because I think I saw this today. Would you rather have Luca or Anthony Edwards next five years?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6318.552

Yeah, next five years. I think I'd still take Luca. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6327.657

With Luca, you're at least getting the what if he shows up on a mission this year piece. Like Shaq for those three, four years with Shaq in the late 90s. It's like, what if he takes this seriously one season? Now we're supposed to pretend that never happened. Okay. And then no chance Lakers come back? Kind of a chance? Sort of a chance? Or you feel like that was their desperation game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

633.339

It was to the left of the basket. He shot it at 1030 at night on a clock. It just was diagonal to the left. It was rough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6371.052

You know what they need to do? Hope that Anthony Edwards goes into, I got this mode. They're going to probably win game five because they'll get every call. Game six, you hope for some hero ball from Edwards. You hope for the Tom Thibodeau doc game seven, 2010 final strategy of let's try to use Edwards' desire to be the hero against him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6392.685

and maybe just hope he makes some bad shots and kind of shoots them out of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6404.393

He is certainly unafraid. Zach Lowe, we ran out of time. I was going to ask you to rank your favorite ringer people, but we can do that the next time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6422.978

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsberry and Zach. Thanks to Eduardo and Gahau for helping behind the scenes. Don't forget about new rewatchables. One up on Monday night. Someone watch over me. You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can watch all the stuff from this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel or as a video podcast on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

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I'm going to be back on Thursday with more stuff, some basketball, maybe a little bit non-basketball. We'll see. I'll see you in a couple of days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

6462.734

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

65.6

I broke down during this pod about as hard as I've ever laughed during a podcast. Uh, it gets super goofy. And, uh, after we do one for us, we always like to do a giant movie. So a giant movie is coming next week. Stay tuned for that. I hope you're checking out the ringer.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

677.762

Yeah, but I mean, the counter is they have been there. Kawhi has been the finals MVP in two different cities. Harden's been in the playoffs for his entire career. Derek Jones was in the finals last year. Norm Powell has been in big playoff games. Ty Lue coached in the finals a bunch of times. Van Gundy was in big games. Derek Jones was in the finals last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

696.206

This is about as experienced of a random team as you're going to get. They don't have the best part in the series, which is a problem. And they're just trying everything possible to mess with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

706.13

But I think the best thing that happened to the Nuggets in this series, other than Jamal Murray seems to be getting better as it's going along, Christian Brown's doing, it really seems like he's in Harden's head a little bit. He just, he's low to the ground and seems to have a sense of that herky-jerky style that Harden has. And he's kind of, he's doing the defensive herky-jerky version of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

729.565

And he's moving back and forth with it. And I think Harden's just having a lot of trouble going by him. In game four, in the fourth quarter, I think because Brown was tired, Harden started going by him in the fourth quarter. But I think it might have been tired legs more than anything. But Brown seems really confident against him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

782.606

Did Denver watching them these last five games, and especially game four, game five, did it change your opinion at all? about whether they could actually throw some haymakers at OKC?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

80.726

Hope you're checking about all of our, uh, ringer podcast stuff, the bill Simmons, YouTube channel, which we go live on Sundays with Priscilla. We kind of staggered it. We did a late live and an early one with Priscilla and van on Sunday. That was super fun. Fan duel, by the way, I've been working with them. we're going to start this new gimmick on Wednesday with Lakers-Timberwolves game five.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

851.875

Okay. See versus Denver. If that's what we end up with, um, It's an MVP battle, too, which is always fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

867.51

James Harden, man. I don't know. I had a couple people in my life who were like, why are you so high on the Clippers? They have James Harden. I'm like, no, James Harden was good this year. It's like, yeah, he's James Harden.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

882.679

I'm the one for Kim Kardashian. She told me this is it. It's going to work out this time for her. She's going to live happily ever after. We'll see what happens Thursday night. I'm going. The crowd will be great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

895.56

We're due for, if you had to pick a seven-game series out of the available choices, which are probably this one, Golden State-Houston, even though Golden State's up 3-1, Minnesota, and the Lakers, which will be 3-2 after tomorrow when the Lakers shoot 68 free throws, or Detroit versus the Knicks. Who would you go for a seven-gamer? Because we're getting one. That's just the rule.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Playoff Jamal, Playoff Harden, Farewell Giannis, and a Draymond Deep Dive With Kirk Goldsberry and Zach Lowe

985.142

25, 10, and 10 for Cade. Seven turnovers. It's been an extra three turnovers a game for him because he has the ball so much. But the stat that jumped out to me, Detroit, seven for 29 from three, and they went on the road. That's really hard to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

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You want to take the leftovers from the Phoenix list of 9,000 assistant coaches who have never had a head coaching job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

1762.845

just a phoenix grab bag like take the whole fired phoenix coaching staffs over the last five years and craft a coaching staff out of those guys like who's your guy who do you want you don't have an answer well that's an important part of the question yeah i don't i mean i have nick's friends who are like mike malone won a title two years ago he's available be huge for us like i'm not sure if

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

1836.397

I can't narrow it down. Wasn't it Grantland that did the video inside the draft room? Yeah. Yeah. What did they, what did they, they all called him on speakerphone and Vivek made them be like one, two, three. Yay, Nick or something like that. And you could see everyone being like, Oh my God. Go Nick. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

2057.633

Are we still in the Sacramento Kings mistake segments or are we done to talk about the Kings?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

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I'm concerned about my kid and her generation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

4777.969

We're like one report away from like maybe Christmas. Maybe, why not? Technology.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

4832.591

Like I have my entire Memorial day to just do things. Draft work. Is it, was this what it's like for the Hornets every year? My colleagues with the Hornets just are kicking around Charlotte for two months, trying to find out stuff to do, doing projects.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

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I would believe anything about Tom Cruise. I would believe literally anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

5237.714

I thought that was the Tyson zone. Is that not the Tyson zone? That's now Bath Salt?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

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I love Jalen Brown's involved all of a sudden. Spurs go 7-2.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Haliburton’s Brilliant Game 4, the Reeling Knicks, and OKC’s All Grown Up With Zach Lowe

991.925

It didn't even, it didn't, you can't fall apart if it never was. It's like, it's like, I read some, I read some headline last week about how the Sixers don't want to break up their duo, their star duo of Paul George and Joel Embiid. I'm like, duo? I'm almost as much of a duo with Paul George as Joel Embiid and Paul George is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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The Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. I am recording this right after Lakers Mavs, just the very top here. Four things I wanted to hit coming off that game. Number one, the Luka Doncic trade is now kind of seeming stupid for Dallas. Oh wait, it was stupid immediately when it happened. This is just a disaster. I can't believe Nico Harrison actually went to the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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If you, you can make a case for McCarthy to be good next year, but they have a lot of cap space too. Thought that was interesting. And then, um, really nobody. Is there anybody else you were thinking long shot wise that you're like, I want to see what happens with their draft and free agency. And there might be value now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Well, they're trying to ban the tush push, so they're already getting on it right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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They are so fucked up. Everybody who was going against the Eagles the last two rounds, because they really came on like a freight train in that Rams in the Rams Eagles game. And that was the worst the Eagles looked the whole playoffs just for that fourth quarter. I brought you on to do a little quarterback roulette.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Usually teams, we go into the offseason and teams need quarterbacks, but it feels like it's an unusual amount of... This could go this way. This could go this way. This could go this way. I wanted to go through all the scenarios, but we should start with the Rams before we go through the draft pick teams. The Rams, they have Stafford. They have the 26th pick. They have $44.3 million in cap space.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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There's some weird Stafford stuff where if they trade him, they take a massive cap hit for this season, right? They save like $4 million, something like that. But long-term... Dead cap 45.3 and they would save 4.3. The new team that takes him, he'd count for 27 million, 4 million guaranteed this year and 31 million next year. Is it realistic to you that he gets traded?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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We don't usually see this with a team trading an expensive quarterback and taking cap hit and then another team absorbing a big contract. Do you see him getting traded?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Sure, SGA, Anthony Edwards, that'll be great. Can't wait to watch those guys battle, but it's not going to have the baggage in the history of this rivalry. So depending on how long LeBron is able to play at this level, this is the best we're going to do. Could we get this as a 2-7 matchup in the NBA playoffs? So Lakers right now, 35-21. Two seed is conceivable for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Well, hold on on the $50 million a year, because that's two is making that Hertz is making that. So if I'm Matthew Stafford, I'm like, I'm worth $50 million a year. Look at that guy and that guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1284.918

Well, and there's a lot of posturing through the press, which always makes me suspicious. The more posturing publicly, the more I usually think this is just people rolling up their sleeves, showing some biceps, but nothing's actually going to happen. I looked at all the scenarios for trade teams for him, and people were mentioning the Giants. Like you said, I have no idea why he'd want to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1305.637

He already took an insane amount of punishment when he was on the Lions the first half of his career, right? He's 37 now. I also think Kyle turned the TikTok camera on. I think I was thinking about how LeBron and Brady have ruined our perspective with guys in their late thirties to the point now that like LeBron looks great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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I think LeBron might be a second team all NBA guy at this point, the way he's playing in the way and how much he's he's invested in defense, especially the last month and a half where he's, he's been one of the top 10 guys in the league for two months now. And then you have Brady playing until he's 45, but there's really no other examples. You go like, oh, look at Chris Paul.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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He's still doing really well in the Spurs. Like, yeah, he's 10 and eight, you know? I just, I would be so nervous with the Stafford thing. So if I'm the Giants, I'm not trading a third pick for him. Maybe it's like the third for the Rams have the 26 for the 26 in Stafford. And then I'm using all my cap space for Stafford. Where am I going?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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I'm going to be like, I'm in the same division as the Eagles. How does that make me better? The only team I think makes sense. is the Raiders. The Raiders have almost $100 million in cap space. They have Carroll. They have some blue chippers on both sides.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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I don't think it's inconceivable that they could be pretty good next year if they had Stafford and then didn't give up the sixth pick in the trade. Is there any other team? Do you like that Raiders fit for him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1424.987

Give me a break. Eagles twice a week or twice a year and Parsons twice a year. Come on. And Washington. Come on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

143.115

Dallas right now is the eight seed. There's a bunch of teams tied in between seven and 10. They're getting some guys back soon. If you want to get good ratings, NBA, I would rig a two, seven Lakers Dallas, I think would be the way to do it. Anyway, this is an awesome rivalry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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I'm just saying they have a couple of good players and they have cap space.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1480.794

They have Wilkins too. They have three blue chippers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1506.034

Well, a thing that you and I both love when we're doing the futures in the offseason is... New coach replacing an incompetent coach, which I think is the case here with the Raiders. And then way better QB replacing a bunch of shit QBs. They fit that recipe too. And there's some Washington parallels with them. And none of us had the balls...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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to pick Washington as a team that could potentially make the NFC title game or even the playoffs. But there was a recipe we all looked at. We're like, ah, man, they need too much help. But they did have the new coach who was way better than the old coach and the QB that could come in and potentially be way, way better than what they were getting in QB. Both of those things happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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They hit some draft picks. They hit some free agents. I don't feel like the Raiders are that far away from that recipe. I don't think the Patriots are either. Those are the two teams that I think you have to take seriously. But for them, like, you know, if they were able to keep that six pick, get somebody awesome, trade for Stafford, nail one more pick, get two more guys in fridge.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1568.464

And then all of a sudden you hope the chiefs go backwards. You hope the chargers kind of stay where they are. You kind of, you could talk yourself into it, I guess is my point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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That was my first takeaway tonight watching this where I'm just like, this is must watch TV every time these two guys, two teams play. Second one is the Lakers who were still, and I talked about on Sunday night, I think they're a wildcard contender. They're not one of the four contenders to win the title, but they might be fifth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1594.915

Well, Carroll and Stafford over Gardner Minshew and Antonio Pierce. That's five wins. I don't even care who else is on the team that you have to be. I'm just making that a plus five. All right. We got to go through some of these, some of these teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1618.657

We've built up so much drama. We got to take a break. Let's take a break. We'll come back. QB roulette. This episode is brought to you by Audi. The all-new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron. A huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1664.704

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1681.934

And sometimes there's some good stuff in the fourth quarters. You never know with the threes. You can jump in. Somebody's down 15. Screw it, jump in on their money line and ride the wave when they make a big comeback. You can combine your live bets in the same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout. However you wanna play, now is the perfect time to join. And I still love the futures.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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When I was in Boston recently, all the playoff stuff, who's gonna make the playoffs, you can parlay stuff together. I'm on the airplane. We're about to take off. I'm still making like teaming playoff bets together. Great stuff. New Fando customers get started with $150 in bonus bets. If your first $5 bet wins, visit Fando.com slash BS to join today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1744.017

See terms at sportsbook.fander.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. All right. The Titans are on the clock at number one. They have $51 million in cap space. They have the same coach. They have the first pick of the draft and they have, we'll love us a quarterback who I think we can all agree. It's not happening. Um, There's two separate questions here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1765.164

Why wouldn't they just take Cam Ward? I know you're starting to do your draft prep. People do not think he is the best player in this class. I think there's consensus. McShay had his great newsletter this weekend. Our draft guys are talking about it too. You can say there's either two or three elite players in the draft. right? Abdul Carter, Travis Hunter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

177.763

And they're definitely the, I don't know what the ceiling is of this team yet. They're 15 and four in their last 19 now. They've been top five net the whole time. Rui at center, which they've done from time to time when AD was out, but they're doing it by necessity now because the Mark Williams trade got canceled. He's a little Carl Anthony Towns this year at times. And I mean that in a good way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And then I personally, and as you know, I don't watch a lot of college football, but I've prepped for this draft a lot. It seems like Mason Graham to me is a home run pick and an elite guy. So those three guys, Cam Ward is not better than any of them, but QB matters the most. And if you can hit with the guy and the rookie scale, that's the best thing you can do. So two questions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1805.478

Why wouldn't they just take Cam Ward? And if they didn't, Why wouldn't they trade back to a team that wanted to take Kim Ward? Because I think he should be the first pick. What are your thoughts on that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

1913.754

To be like, yeah, Vrabel's not our guy. Let me back the GM who I'm going to fire a year later. That just tells me you don't know what you're doing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So there's two possible moves for them if it's not Cam Ward. One is you flip picks with the Giants one to three. If you think the Giants are fired up for him and are worried that they're not going to get him, that he's not going to fall to three, that somebody's going to trade above them, they just want to lock it down.

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I mean, would you trade down two spots if you could get a Giants future first out of it? I wouldn't do it for the second rounder. I think that's too much. And the history of the draft is if you're trading up for a quarterback, you've got to have another first in the deal. We've just, that's how it's gone.

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If I'm the Titans and I need help everywhere and I could go from one to three and I know I'm still getting Carter or Hunter at number three and I'm getting a Giants pick, which I would really want because I don't think they're going to be good anytime soon. I would do that.

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I don't know if I would do it if I was the Giants because like we discussed earlier, I don't know where I'm going if I'm the Giants. I just want a good player. But that's the only trade that makes sense to me for them.

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Like he's got size, he's got, he could stretch the floor. And he's just big enough that he can push against a post-up player. Not the, you know, not a rim protector, neither as Towns. But when you watch them and it's their crunch time today, and I think their crunch time just going forward, Reeves as the point guard, even though he's not a point guard,

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Yeah, content MVPs, brand new owners and GMs who need to do something desperate because if it doesn't work out, they're getting fired anyway. Just the MVPs for 25 years for me. I don't really see any other moves...

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up to the one spot, unless it was the Raiders, and they dangled six, and a future first, and maybe even took a bad contract from the Titans because they have the cap space to actually absorb something. That's the only other one. The draft order is Titans, Browns, Giants. The Pats aren't trading up for Cam Ward. Jacksonville's not trading up for Cam Ward at number five.

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So it would really just be the Raiders, unless... There's a jet scenario that I think there's a more interesting version of this, but they have the seventh pick. And if Garrett Wilson was on the table with the seventh pick to move up to one, I'm at least having a meeting about that if I'm the Titans, but I'm probably not doing it.

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We'll go back to that top of the draft. I'm just going to give everybody the possibilities. Here are the quarterback possibilities if you're looking for one. Cam Ward, who's going to be a top four pick. Shador Sanders, who I think is going to be, I would say, top eight pick. Maybe top nine pick. He's going to go in the first nine. I just don't know where. And we're going to know.

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Because there's some athleticism stuff with him that's funny because his dad's Dion. But I think everyone talks about he's tough, he's smart, he processes everything. But athletically, he's not actually as athletic as you would think he is. So I'm sure that at some point, people are going to want to see it with their own eyes. And then there's the Jackson Dart late first round, early second round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Rui is the center, even though he's not a center. And then LeBron and Luka and Finney Smith as the wings. And they're all just really smart basketball players who can kind of fill in the blanks and not totally get burned. The rim protection is not going to be perfect.

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Could he have like a Bo Nix rise out of nowhere? That's it for guys who could actually start for a team next year. Then you have Stafford. We talked about all the cap stuff with him. Sam Darnold, Garoppolo, Rogers, Russell Wilson, the corpse of Kirk Cousins, Jameis Winston, Justin Fields. And my guy, Joe Milton, who I don't know if you've seen, don't look at who's on Buffalo's team in week 18.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Just look at what Joe Milton is doing. Don't look to see if there are any starters on the field. Joe Milton, is he worth the first round pick? Probably.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is there anyone else? I've listed all those QBs. Is there anyone else you had that is like, I could see that guy starting?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So the Colts have $30 million in cap space right now. And they have the 14th pick. And if they traded Richardson... I would assume there's some sort of cap hit to it, but not that much because he's on a rookie contract. So maybe that gets them into Darnold range. What's Darnold worth for you?

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Before I tell you whether I like this idea or not, because the franchise tag for him would be $42.4 million. franchise tax because people were thinking, oh, you could see the Vikings franchise. That would be insane for them to do that. I personally think they have 60 million in cap space. You're just going to use all of that to franchise tag them and then hope you can trade them.

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There's going to be guards like Kyrie tonight that they're just not going to be able to stay in front of unless it's a team defensive concept. I think it works. I'm bullish on this Lakers team as a contender. Everyone's like, oh, you hate the Lakers. You hate the Lakers. When the Lakers are good, I'm going to admit it. We were admitting it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Why would they do that? So what's he actually worth? Because he's not worth 44.

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It's almost like Hollywood actors. Where you have like you have your Tom Cruise types. And then you, you drop like majorly to the next, to the next level of like, yeah, we can put that guy in a poster, but it does, you know, you don't really have to spend a lot of money for it. I, I personally think 30 million for Darnold's too high, but I can't shake the last two games.

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I don't know how you get past that if you're running a team and you're thinking about... If the goal is to actually try to win the Super Bowl, there might be some other teams that just their goal would be competency. And then maybe it makes sense. But, you know, Mayfield, at least Mayfield had done, you know, he had pulled the Browns. He'd won a playoff game. There was some sort of history.

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And then he had a really good comeback year. And there was some stuff you could point to. I don't know. I'd be really nervous about that. So you think Colts potentially for him? I don't see it with the Raiders. The Steelers would be the other one. Just because they have the cap space.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And if they could get him and sell him on the culture and be like 60 million for three years, make him a $20 million guy, maybe. Yeah. You seem suspicious.

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We were doing pods all the way up until COVID happened in the 2019-20 season, saying the Lakers Clippers are the two best teams. I think the Lakers are a legit contender. And, you know, I think they can get away with these goofy lineups because they're really well coached and their best two players are really smart and know where to go and what to do. So that, that's my second takeaway.

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Mike Tomlin's like your buddy who just dates all kinds of girls. You have no idea what his type is. He's been all over the map. I mean, think of all the QBs. They've run in and out of there. He's trying to talk himself into Trubisky. You know, is he Russell Wilson? Great. Justin Fields. I don't. Does he have a type?

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Can I ask you this? Are you an Aaron Rodgers team? Would you want to do a year with Aaron Rodgers? I'm out. There's no way I'm going near that dude. And from what we saw last year, he doesn't want to get hit anymore. He doesn't have legs anymore. Like, I just don't see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like they weren't gonna chant thank you, Nico, at him for two and a half hours. If I was him, I would have pretended to have COVID, the flu, bronchitis, I don't know what, but I would not have wanted to be in the building. That's just nuts. All right, three actual takeaways. This is already the best rivalry in the NBA. I'm the most interested in every Lakers-Mavericks game from now on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Derek Carr, I'm out. I'm blind out. Can I throw a name at you that I feel like his stock is too far down compared to what it should be? Garoppolo. OK, so terrible Raiders here, right? Immortalized in the Devante Adams wide receiver show, just him being pissed off the whole year. But we've also seen he's had success.

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And there was a while where the biggest criticism for him would be like, well, when he's on the field, he's good. But he keeps getting hurt. He keeps getting dinged up. He takes hits. He's just it's the durability would be the question for him. And now we've moved into this phase of he's just not good at quarterback. And I'm not sure I believe that because.

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You know, the Niners came pretty close to winning a Super Bowl with him, which is a lot more than we could say about anyone else we're talking about on this list except Rodgers, who's washed up. And I'm just like, if I'm going to pay $30 million for Sam Darnold, I would kind of rather pay $5 million for Garoppolo and try to build an offensive line around him so he's not taking big hits.

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And do that because I've seen him do it before. I don't think he can do it if he doesn't have a line. But if you're actually blocking for him, It's not inconceivable to me that he'd be good. You agree or disagree?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Uh, ironically, Luca is not in any of my, my big three takeaways. Cause we know how talented he is. We know how good he is. And, you know, it was interesting. You would have bet, like if you were betting on Fandle, you're doing like the same game. They had the, the, uh, parlay boost token, the, uh, The obvious bet would have been, oh, Luka, revenge, points. And it never works out that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Like, like if the Seahawks chair to Gino, which we'll talk about in a second. And they were like, we're going to bring in Jimmy cheaper price. I'd be like, that's a bad idea. You guys can't block. Like Jimmy's going to just take a lot of hits and run for his life. And he's going to suck like he did on the Raiders.

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But if it was a team that had a little more stability, like I actually think the Steelers, if they can get their offensive line healthy next year, it's a good offensive line. Potentially they've certainly invested in it. And he seems like more of a Steeler type to me going backwards. Brown's at two. No QB and Watson out for the year of the Achilles thing. This is another team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like, why wouldn't they take Kim Ward if he was sitting there at two? They're never going to have another chance to sign a QB, trade for one. They're in this Watson hell. And everyone's like, well, do you see them take Hunter or Carter? I don't understand why they wouldn't take a quarterback if they liked Ward. Why wouldn't they?

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Cousins and much rather have Garoppolo than Kirk Cousins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I think he's going to retire and be on TV next year would be my prediction for him. Interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's getting paid either way. He's getting most of the Atlanta money. Why does he want to keep playing? Yeah. He's had a great life. He's made a bunch of money and he'll be an immediate like I think like an aggressive TV candidate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's such an important point. The psychology of the people making the decision never gets factored into these mock drafts. If I'm running the Titans or if I'm running the Browns and I don't take Cam Ward and then he goes to the Giants at three and he's awesome, I'm getting fired. If I take Cam Ward, I'm buying two years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm in the same spot like with Grigson and on the Colts with Richardson, where you take the guy... you're not really going to get criticized no matter what happens for two years. And there's always the illusion of hope with the QB you took, right? So with Cam Ward, I'm buying the illusion of hope for two years. I now I'm secure with my job. Same thing if the Giants were able to get him a three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's why I think there's no scenario where he's not one of the top three picks. And I'd be really surprised. I just, I don't understand why the Browns would pass on him when they are just completely fucked with this Watson thing. And I also think like, is it inconceivable Ward could go one and Sanders could go two? And we'd be like, oh my God, we've seen Mitch Trubisky go second in a draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He just did the classic other version of a Luka game where he filled out every part of the box score, got a triple-double, but he did not have the 40-point game, which I think when you think about revenge, it wasn't what we saw tonight, but he played a really smart offensive game and really controlled it and did a lot of good stuff. But that leads to the third thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like the closer you get to these drafts, like everybody thinks Cam Ward isn't as good as the top three quarterbacks in last year's draft, right? They don't even maybe think he's as good as Penix was last year. But when you're in these drafts and people need quarterbacks, all of a sudden the value just skyrockets for these stupid reasons. I think the Browns, They're so screwed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know how they don't take a quarterback with one. Like, oh, cool. We have Travis Hunter. Great. I have nobody to throw the ball to him. And our defense is going to be in the field all the time. I'll probably get hurt. Giants at three. No QB except Drew Locke. Third pick, 38.7 million cap space. And this seems like another... Another QB spot for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's a pot like could you trade three for Stafford and 26? You could as we covered. I don't know how it makes sense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It could be a Russell Wilson team, too. Like there's a case for Russell Wilson for a team like that. We say, hey, he made the playoffs last year. He's pretty good for the Steelers, right? We get him for cheap because he's still on that giant contract. He's in New York. He knows how to handle the city. You can talk to yourself in that. We're going to suck anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Why am I spending money on a quarterback if I'm not drafting one? Raiders at six. Six pick, 99.5 million cap space. There was stuff online as we were taping this morning about Pete Carroll talking to... The Seahawks guy, a lot of people wonder if Gino might get traded. What is Gino worth to you? Like, let's say the Raiders are like, Gino's our guy. We're going to get him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're going to give him a new contract. This is the guy we want. He's competent enough. He can throw the ball. He's had some success. This is who we like. Is it a second round pick for Gino? Is it, we'll give you the six for Gino and the 18. What's the trade?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Gino in 18. Would you do that if you're the Seahawks? And then you use the money and you sign, I don't know, Sam Darnold?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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How about this? I wouldn't trade Gino Smith if I were the Seahawks. I wouldn't either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Draft an offensive line for him. Add a couple of people who can block because that was why you lost last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Watching LeBron reinvent himself on the fly, and I think this is his 22nd NBA season at age 40, when we thought we had seen every version of whatever was happening with him, I didn't think he ever had a chance to compete for a title again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's like, look at all my come from behind wins. And then they're like, let's throw in the Cardinals tape of, of some of the throws you made that game jets at seven. Oh, by the way, with the Raiders, we feel like Stafford is a real possibility there. That's our favorite Raiders move, right? Or taking Sanders. Yes. There's one more Sanders piece that I forgot to mention during the Raiders part.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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If Sanders is at four for the Patriots, I don't know why they wouldn't flip picks with them at that point. If the Patriots... Sanders is still there and the Patriots signal... We're trading out of this pick because we have a bunch of people that want Sanders. You could just move up and take them. But give us your first next year. Four and six. We'll flip. Give us next year's first.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we'll throw in our third round pick next year. I'm doing that in five seconds if I'm the Pats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Because if they're at six and they're basically talking themselves into Mason Graham or the, or the best left tackle at that point, who unfortunately people aren't positive. He's a left tackle, which makes me nervous. Will Campbell. It's like, No, he's almost definitely a tackle, but he does have short arms. He might be a guard.

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It's like, well, if he might be a guard, I'm not taking him in the top six. I'm just not. You can't spend a top six pick on somebody who might be a guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I like him too. Do I have to take him with the fourth pick? Do I take him with the six pick? Can I, can I just move down and take him at nine? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, jet seven, no QB seventh pick 11.2 million in cap space. Another possible Sanders spot. Can I just, can I test drive you through a Pat's trade? The four to the jets for Wilson in the seven scenario, just for fun, just for shits and giggles.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And almost immediately, he has figured out how to kind of coexist with Luka, how to let Luka have the ball way more than we've ever seen LeBron be comfortable with with a teammate since 2011 Miami. Playing off the ball and figuring out how to affect the game in all these different ways. And then when he gets the ball... doing LeBron things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can you give me a who says no on that one? I know I got Nephi Kyle's attention.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I didn't say it was a fair trade for the Jets. I just wanted to walk you through the scenario. Yeah. What about four and our third, which is high up in the third round, for seven and Wilson? Is that more interesting to you? And the Jets take Sanders. I'm not doing that. We have to put our second in that for you to do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Okay. Seventh pick in the draft. Does Sanders fall below seven? Because I don't see how the Jets don't take him at seven. I don't see any scenario where that doesn't happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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So we definitely have Hunter, Carter, who now they're talking about how his shoulder's not 100%, which could knock him out of the number one pick. Come to the Patriots. Be our Willie McGinnis of this generation. Carter, Hunter, Graham, the two QBs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then it gets like, when you start talking about like, who do you think is going to be the six pick in this draft or in that top six, you'll get different answers from different people. Some people would say it's Campbell might be the quarterback from Michigan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, so for the jets, like if they're just sitting there and both quarterbacks are gone at that point, they're just, they're taking anybody a couple more teams saints. They have the ninth pick, no cap space and Derek Carr and Spencer Rattler. Good luck. No ability to trade. No ability to really do anything. Colts, we mentioned whether they move on from Richardson or not. Steelers, no QB whatsoever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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21st pick, $60.2 million in cap space. I'm not saying they're not a Stafford team. They could fit the contract in. Would you trade the 21st pick for Stafford if you're the Steelers? You have to feel like you could win the title if you're doing that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Hey, idiots like me were saying they were the best team in the AFC at the end of November. They really looked that way, and then they completely died. Have we found T.J. Watt's body yet? What happened to him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is a hybrid of 2011 Miami that first year when it was still Wade's team and he was kind of easing his way into it. He was still getting his stats, but there was a lot of time when Wade was cooking because Wade was one of the three best players in the league. And he's deferring to Luke, at least what we've seen so far, while also trying to figure out all these different ways to fit in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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A couple more teams and then we'll go. The Niners, Purdy, one more year left on this deal, but this is the time when you blow up the deal. You give them the giant extension and you kind of have to decide how much is Brock Purdy worth? Probably more than a Mayfield contract, maybe less than a Tua contract, but Tua got the contract he did and that made me think he's probably worth the Tua contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But they have the leverage of... How about you take 85% of that to a deal and then you have the security, whatever happens this season, you know you have the contract. What if this season goes badly? This is a pretty big financial decision. You're locking it up. Do it now. That would be the psychology you'd try to use against them, I guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Like, look at what happened to you the second half of last season. You fell apart. We're not going to have Debo Samuel next year. God only knows how long we're going to have McCaffrey. God only knows how long Trent Williams is going to be healthy. Like, you sure you don't want this now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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He should hire Kirk Cousins as his advisor. Just to scare them. Seahawks, we mentioned Gino in the 18th pick. They're over the cap. So they basically have to figure out the Gino thing. Trading him is not going to really buy them flexibility. And then the last one is the Vikings. JJ McCarthy year two. Darnold would be the 44.2 million franchise tag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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They have the 24th pick and they have 60 million in cap space. And their team, we mentioned them earlier when we were talking about the Super Bowl odds. That's a team where the odds could shift pretty dramatically. Like 32-1 right now, they do a couple moves and a couple things. All of a sudden, I could see them getting the bump. I agree.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Green Bay's the other one that I think we just kind of have to see how March and April go for these teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

376.424

Like he'll get like these sneaky offensive rebounds. He only had two assists today because he didn't have the ball that much, but he still ended up with, you know, I think he had 25 and 12, got some big rebounds. And then defensively,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Well, one thing, one question with them with him is, Would he be the number one pick in this draft if teams knew he was 100 percent healthy? Because I think people like McCarthy last year, McCarthy as a draft prospect seems like it's higher than Cam Ward or Sanders this year. Right. And we're talking about how Cam Ward has to be in the top three. So my guess would be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

3814.551

So you have to almost think of it that way for the Vikings. We used this capital last year with this great season. Didn't end the way we wanted it, but now we have cap space and this guy who's coming in who would be the number one pick in the draft potentially.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Oh, I think they say no. I just wanted to talk it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

3866.476

You know who won me a title? McCarthy. I'd have some calf space. I'm really interested in what the Chargers are doing because it seems like Bosa's out of there. And that's not as big of a deal as it probably is on paper because if you've watched him the last couple of years, I don't think he's been Mr. Reliable. But it's a big foundational piece for them that didn't totally work out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And you think about what happened with them last season where a lot of things lined up. Schedule. you know, some of the pieces they had. And now I don't like their scenario nearly as much this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

389.477

the first what two months of the season he was just atrocious defensively and all the advanced metrics backed it up and he's been way more active and um i'm just really impressed the defense the rebounding and the off the ball stuff is about as high level as it gets we were working on the ringer 100 stuff and um you know after the second month of the season i didn't think there was any case for him to be a top 25 player anymore

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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So you're working on your annual 50 best free agents ever for the season list.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

3931.392

T Higgins has been number one on a lot of lists. Who's my number one guy I want the Patriots to get. Yeah. Is there a scenario where the Bengals keep T. Higgins at a huge price and pay Chase and pay Burrow and have a competent football team? Because I don't understand how they would do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4001.693

Well, I'm sure he's looking at it like, dude, I want Jason Higgins. Like, like we're going to be awesome if we just have the three of us and we'll figure out the rest, but you still like the Eagles. They have a great owner. And, uh, who's, you know, perfectly willing to spend money, spend money up front. That's the game you have to do if you're going to play it that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4023.168

And we, the Bengals have been cheap. I'm dealing with this right now at the Patriots. The Patriots have been cheap for the last 10 years. They have some real opportunity now cap space with the Drake May rookie contract to spend aggressively. Are they going to do it? Are they going to actually show out the cash? They haven't done it for a decade. We'll see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4041.483

I'll give you my dream scenario for the past and we'll go. Trading back from four to six with the Raiders and either getting a future first or the Raiders second and a fourth, something like that. And then taking Mason Graham or the left tackle who's ever left. The left tackle might be a guard, might be a tackle, whatever. I'll take either of those. We just need good players. T. Higgins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Signing him. You're linebacker. I'm taking him. Is that okay? Are you okay with him being a Pat next year? Because he's coming.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4090.447

Good. Come to New England. And then I'm best player available after that in the draft because we need players everywhere. That would be my dream scenario. Get an asset from the Raiders because the Raiders feel a little gamey and desperate to me. And go all out for Higgins. All out. And then if Parsons is actually in the table... I think they have to investigate that one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4114.861

And if it was, you know, even with the fourth pick, I don't really like trading top five picks for, you know, guys in their mid twenties who are making big money. I don't know if that's an awesome NFL recipe, but for Parsons, I think you have to think about it. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4147.26

But Garrett makes me more nervous. Older, a little erratic as a guy. I think there's been some weird stuff over the years. Uh, the team's not, it doesn't seem to ever be that good with him. And I, I, I just to give up like a top five pick for that and have to pay him all that money. I don't like, is that really changing my destiny? I don't see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

416.604

I don't think there's nine players playing better than him right now. Like you go Jokic, SGA, Giannis, Tatum, those four. Luka from a pedigree has to be still a top 10 player. Mitchell, Brunson, Edwards. And then it's LeBron and Cade are probably the 10 best players in the league right now. There's been some injuries. We've lost some guys. But LeBron has to be in the top 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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What's Parsons worth if Dallas calls the Pats and says, we're ready to move on Parsons. We need your fourth pick plus blank.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Amazing stuff. Uh, she, when's your free agent piece coming out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4281.42

All right. Great, great tease. And we can listen to you on the Ringer NFL show as well. And the Philly special, a show that I've been trying not to listen to because I like when, actually, I'll start listening again because I like when the Philly fans are unhappy. I don't want to hear happy Philly fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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I like Philly fans freaking out about Paul George's podcast and Embiid having to have a bone taken from his hip to put in his, that's the Philly content I want. Good to see you, Sheil. Good to see you. Thanks. All right, my friend Dave Burnett is here. He is an executive producer of The White Lotus and a bunch of good stuff. Jury duty. What else? Do your credentials really fast. Sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Immaculate, Sidney Sweeney movie I'm very proud of.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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That was one of your first things, right? Do the quick backstory of how you got into this because you didn't start as a producer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And I think he's the second team all NBA guy the way this is going. He's been awesome. And, you know, at this point in his career, when he's done pretty much everything you could do, and we see a lot of the old superstars, Doug Collins always used to talk about how hard it is to coach an old superstar. He seems like he's completely bought into hey, we might actually have a chance to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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So you went from UTA mailroom, worked your way up a little bit, but then eventually landed with Mike White and you opened a company with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4557.079

So what are the tricks before we talk to the history of white Lotus, which is fascinating? What are the, what are the tricks you learn with producing a TV show that like the common person wouldn't understand? Cause people just see producer. It's a name that gets thrown around when you live in LA and you're like, what do you do? I'm a producer. And people are like, Oh yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And they don't really know what that means or what you do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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What do I have to do? It doesn't seem like there's a lot of ego stuff, which you see with a lot of older players. Just how do I fit in? How do we win? How can I chip in? It's really interesting to watch. And I'm taking the Lakers seriously. So those are my big takeaways from Lakers. Mavs, we have a lot more on the podcast coming up. Hey, don't leave the podcast now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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So you're a glue guy, problem solver. Yeah. So it's like that little more important than Finney Smith. Yeah. Almost like Andre Iguodala mid-2010s Warriors range.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And what's the right number of projects to have going at the same time? Because this is part of the problem is if you start doing well, then you start grabbing and all of a sudden you're doing like 10 things and you're not doing any of them well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4743.224

The timeline of it is always so fascinating to me when people get a deal done. It's crazy. Just getting the deal done. You have to have the meetings. You have to talk people into it when you do it. How many months is that? That's like four to six?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Best case scenario, four months. Probably. Somewhere four to eight months, maybe even like a year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4777.021

But that's where the case where HBO loves creators. Yeah. They love Mike. Yeah. He had an idea and they're like, done, go do it. Let's go. That's an anomaly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Right. For whatever reason. So you get the deal done. So let's say four to eight. Yeah. Now you got to start writing outlines, scripts. That could be like another year. Could be another year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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It's like when the rookie wins the Super Bowl title in the first year and thinks they're going to be back every year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4836.31

We got to push this to January because Bob's away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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I still got football and white Lotus for you next. We're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network, where I put up a brand new rewatchables on Monday night, me and Van Lathan and Joanna Robinson did crash the 2006 Oscar winner. It's the 20th anniversary of that movie. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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The meeting gets canceled. Oh, I thought we were meeting Wednesday. We got to push it. When's your next availability? I can't do it. And then that's 10 more days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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It's the most incompetent system I've ever seen, the way it's done and how hard it is just to get balls going. But then when you actually get going, now you're in the outline process. Then they have to approve that. Then you're in like, all right, now it's like the giant advanced outline. They have to prove that. Then it's like the first possible pilot script.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4883.543

And that goes, and this could be like another year and a half, right? A hundred percent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

49.854

We didn't even have Anthony Davis tonight. We didn't have Gafford. We didn't have Lively. There's going to be a version of this game, at least for this season and next season, I would guess, where you have this big Mavericks team with a bunch of size, and then you have this weird Lakers team that's kind of playing small, but they're not small because their front court has 800 pounds of guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4958.039

So do you think about it like, what's it like as a movie? What's it like as a scripted? You're trying to figure out the best model for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

4990.932

Yeah. No, didn't he play Jerry West? No, no. No, who played? Oh, that was Jason Clark. Yeah. Got my Jason screwed up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

500.058

We rarely do this on the rewatchables where we just bring a movie on just so we can pick nets with it for an hour and a half and make fun of it and do a whole bunch of things. I had a really good time. I thought this was a very entertaining episode. Every once in a while, we just got to do this to keep the muscles fresh. Anyway, you can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Do you feel like it's like a party where when the first star comes on, then it just becomes like dominoes?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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That's what everyone does with 30 for 30. We got Barry Levinson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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What's your, what's your best thing that you had that fell apart, but it still haunts you at night the same way, like the 1985 finals haunts me for the Celtics. That's a great question. Um, you don't have to say what the project exactly was, but was there one that you're just like the one that got away?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5160.492

Right. It's just too hard. It's like having the OKC Thunder in 2010, but when they're on rookie contracts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5176.027

Is there a moment when you know things are going well because people are now approaching with projects in a way... Can you feel that happening in real time?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

520.295

You can go to the Ringer Movies YouTube channel and watch it there as well. You can get all the videos and clips from this podcast. on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And then last but not least, Celtic City on HBO. Sunday night, March 3rd, HBO Max. It's going to be once a week. It's nine episodes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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So the ways it can go wrong, because we see this when I do the rewatchables research and it's always so interesting with the casting what ifs or this movie fell through and then they revitalized it years later, the same idea, but it's with totally different people, a different director. The ways it can go wrong is,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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like your music scenario where you have the people, you have the right people in your head, but then too much time passes and you lose them and you just can't find the next batch of people. Or you have it built around a star. There's a delay in the production. Yeah. Something bad happens. You lose the star. Now the studio doesn't want to make it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5260.374

And then the other one that's the famous one is the person who backed it on the studio side or the Hollywood side. They switched jobs or they got fired. And now the new guy or new lady comes in. It's like, well, that wasn't my project. I don't want to do this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5365.68

Yeah, because you also see this stuff where, like what happened with Levinson on that show where he starts to do the idol. Yeah. Then the idol becomes this whole thing that ties up. And then that entourage, not entourage, euphoria cast, they're on hold. They lose the momentum from the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5383.31

But that also happens with all these other projects, too, where you think, oh, we're going to start as soon as they're wrapped up with season four. And then it's like, oh, no, they're actually not going to be wrapped up. You have a whole set and a whole system in place that now is on hold. And then you have to decide whether you want to punt on the actor or not, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

545.138

It's one of the coolest projects I've been involved with and I'm really psyched for everybody to watch it. So, Mark it down. I know there's a lot of good TV on these days, but mark down a Celtic city. It's coming. I'll talk more about it on Thursday's podcast coming up for the rest of this podcast. She'll Kapati and I are going to talk about the quarterback situation in the NFL right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And that's why it's a tough business. One of the things that I'm always obsessed about, especially... We've talked about it on the podcast a bunch is why there's so many cooks in the kitchen with these projects. When, especially when you're talking TV and the entire history of TV and what's worked and what's not worked, it's usually like one vision.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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It's like a couple executives trusting the person who had the vision and everybody kind of clearing out and letting them do their thing. And that's been most of the great shows we've ever had. And I don't understand why Hollywood just doesn't obey this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5519.898

When the Zoom is so big you can't fit everyone on your phone, something has probably gone wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5549.608

We see that on the documentary side too with a lot of the stuff I've been involved with. The more people weighing in, and one of the things I try to do as a producer of those, and it doesn't always work, is you try to funnel the notes through one person so at least they only hear from one voice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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But like when the Celtics thing I just did, which I'm really proud of, I think it turned out great, but there, you know, we had the Celtics, it's their IP. They have notes. You have the NBA. They're going to weigh in with their notes. And then we had our production side and it's like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

5581.094

If you can pass a tipping point, especially if somebody is just in the abyss with whatever they're working on and they're just hearing all these different things and notes are conflicting, it can really fuck them up. It seems like every showrunner, director, whatever, you're going to hit this dark place with what you're working on. And you need at least one person to be like... I got you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And picking your battles, right? Picking your battles. Maybe give them this one because it's not worth fighting about because I really need to win this one later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

566.252

A lot of teams that need one, a lot of teams that can't find one, some guys that might be moving teams, some top 10, possibly top five, possibly top three quarterback prospects. that are going to make the draft more interesting. So we're going to cover all of that. And then my friend Dave Barnett is going to come on, who is an EP of White Lotus and has been a producer for a long time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Wow. Well, you know, part of the problem is people feel like sometimes they just have to give notes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Or else it doesn't look like they gave a shit or watched it or did their job or cared. Yeah. So here's six extra notes just because I want to make sure my email is long enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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So it's a weird process. One of the best behind the scenes experience I had was when we did the Andre the Giant doc because they just trusted us. Yeah. And it was, you know, Jason was the director who's great. I don't know if you met him, but... We just kind of figured out the framework and it just kind of went smoothly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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And it was one of those things where afterwards I was like, man, I wish that's just how it went. It's just like a couple people figuring it out. Everyone else trusts those people. And there you go. And we'll talk about how unique White Lotus is, but we'll take a quick break and then we'll talk about this is a unicorn type of show. Anyway, break.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Okay, so White Lotus, which you were involved with intimately from the very beginning. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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the perfect kind of tv show from a production standpoint in a lot of ways you're not relying on a star because you can change the cast whenever you want you have one person writing the entire show almost as like an eight hour movie you have a network that completely trusts that person and you kind of have a blank canvas to be like all right we have this hotel Here's the premise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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We're going to dive into this. We can change locations every year. It's a show that I'm sure you probably thought was going to be a one-year show. And now you can potentially do eight or nine seasons of it. And you guys are controlling it and they trust you. This is like impossible. It never works out this way. So why does it ever work out this way?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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His story is interesting. His story is about White Lotus and just like what it's like when you see somebody as an executive producer of a scripted TV show. What is that job? What do they do? We're going to dive into all of it. I promise you're going to like it. So that is what's happening. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Gio Capani from the Ringer is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka’s Revenge, NFL QB Roulette, and Tales from 'White Lotus' With Sheil Kapadia and Dave Bernad

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Wow. Cause that, cause so that's 2008. Yeah. Cause the whole premise of we're starting this show, but something weird happened. You're going to eventually discover what happened. That's like a very late 2010s premise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because it's like they're talking about like the... I'm trying to think some of the stuff they did. I guess The Hitchhiker.

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But the funny thing is the model you laid out earlier where you then don't have to rely on a fancy famous cast member. It's actually like a better model.

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So you're calling it the honeymoon show. And the new guy's like, the honeymoon? What the fuck is this? And he's out. Gone. So now's our second strike, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Mike is being pigeonholed now as like incredibly creative guy, but can't have like a giant show. Exactly. He's not like a big taste guy. Exactly. He's like a small critics love him type of guy.

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And we basically had one- So it's Honeymoon Show, Jennifer Coolidge.

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A roller coaster ride of a month for him. The Eagles win the Super Bowl in about as convincing a fashion as we've had in a while. And then on the flip side, the Sixers have spiraled into a fiery pit of hell. Do you care? Does anyone in Philly even care about the Sixers right now?

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Wow, so he's like Bradley Cooper in Limitless, just cranking it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, at that point, they probably had like two things going because nobody could film anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You skipped over the casting piece of this when you're doing the thing that fast. So obviously the show has... really good casting, but who does that come from? Is it a team thing or did you hire an awesome casting person or is it just people you and Mike like?

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Yeah, it's going to be if they end up in the sixth spot and it's a top six protected pick. And you're just holding your fingers crossed that nobody leapfrogs them. I think ending up at seven after how devastating the season would have been, that would be an all-timer. The Eagles thing, I'm still kicking myself for not picking them. I have so many regrets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you're thinking, this is a one and done. We're out of here. How do we pull this off? This is finished.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you finish the show. HBO loves it. I started hearing about it well before it came out. Like, hey, there's this show we have. It has a chance.

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But there's two genius things though. One is that you don't know where it's going and you kind of want to see, but the other thing that plays into the COVID piece, you got to go on vacation to Hawaii, which was great. You just got to go somewhere that wasn't like your house with the same family or friends that you were just staring at for the last nine months.

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I talked to you that first week before we got into Super Bowl week. I'm like, I'm taking the Eagles. I'm taking them. I really think they have a better team. And then by Wednesday, the Mahomes Kool-Aid had washed over me. And the fear of just... being wrong and having my heart like, God, I, and it just, that was it. That was the only reason I'm never doing that again.

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I remember texting Casey about it. Like, where's season two? And he's like, Mike's never doing a season two. There's no way. I was like, how do you not do a season two? Just go to a different location. He's like, yeah, we know. But Mike, that's not how he operates. He's not going to do it. So what changed?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And... But it's a lot easier for season two, I'm guessing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If all the evidence is on one team like that, I'm just never doing that again. I'm never buying into this whole amorphous. Well, you got to do it. They win all the time. This is the stupidest thing you can do. And why did we do it?

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There would have been a good title, Sexual Jealousy. That's a good title for like a Cinemax movie.

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But yeah, that was when I got to know you a little bit and it was, you were just out of it. Yeah. You couldn't follow sports in the same way? Like nothing. I mean, do you remember one of our first Zooms?

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Honestly. So you're worried about monsoons, mosquitoes, wind. There's always the tsunami thing, which is, you know, by the way, not, not a theme. Always a thing. Season three. But it's coming.

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his old team and just a lot of different storylines that i think are great i we had this in the 2000s the seeds of it when shaq went to miami but kobe's lakers team wasn't good enough we had the seeds of it when durant went to golden state in 2016 and then there was going to be an okc golden state robbery but golden state was just way better than okc this

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And the problem solving. So it sounds like Italy was probably the easiest of the three seasons. Yeah. Hawaii is the hardest. And then Thailand's just a wild card every day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Your three friends think it's another shitty season. Yeah, of course.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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By the way, it's not slow. You need to watch, unfortunately, and we have to do this for the recap pods. You kind of have to watch them twice to kind of absorb everything that's in there. Cause it's like this dense, all this hidden shit going on and you can't just like watch it while you're like on your phone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I mean, see, we don't have to spoil episode three, but snakes, fires, and tsunamis are some of the dream visuals going on in the third episode.

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So you're almost doing like the Belichick salary cap move where you're just getting these awesome veterans to be like the middle linebacker, but you don't have to shoot your wad on Ryan Reynolds.

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So all the Eagles fans have told me the Pat Super Bowl, because it was the first one of two generations, basically, was a more emotional, better one. But this was, in a lot of ways, more satisfying. Especially the Jalen Hurts piece of it. which I think as we get away from that game and, you know, the days pass and it's just, weren't really sure what you had with that guy.

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Like, that they're there because their agent told them to be there because they know it's a good show, but they don't actually watch it.

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And Mike's no help. He's right in every single line. Every single line. I mean, well, Mike's the genius. Right. But it was funny because at one point when they were doing like one of the... I forget when the writer's strike was. And one of the things they were talking about how... Oh, this one, they don't have a writer's room. It's like, yeah, because it's like an eight-hour movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But why wouldn't people just think of it as a seven hour movie, which is what it is.

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The two people, I don't know how they do it are him and Taylor Sheridan. Yeah. I don't know. I don't understand how Taylor Sheridan is producing this much content. I don't know. It really does feel like, like I made the limitless joke before, but he really does feel like the limitless, like we're going to find out. Yeah. He found some sort of something.

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And then he was really awesome. I was watching some of the inside the NFL type stuff after that game. He was just great in that game. I mean, that was one of the better QB performances. So going forward, you know, for the money you're paying, all right, it's like, all right, we can win the Super Bowl with this guy. This is good.

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So is the number one thing that happens to you at the show, people suggesting locations for the next season?

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Like that or my other favorite thing is- Because if my wife came in right now, she'd be like, why don't you guys do a skiing season?

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Mike says, no, definitely work with that. Italy hotel became, it became like one of the hottest hotels in the world.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're like a VIP at a casino. They're sending you the private plane so you can come gamble there.

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And do you figure out the location first or do you figure out the idea?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Mike could be like, season four is about adultery. That's what I'm excited about. Okay. Let's think about locations that would be a good adultery location.

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What is the shelf life for the Seagulls team with all the stuff they've done with the cap? Because I know they were maneuvering and getting a little creative, but at some point that runs out, right?

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So if he does season four, there's a podcaster. We'll feel like he's making fun of maybe this podcast we're doing right now. You never know. Yeah.

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This is the part of the podcast where I pitch a White Lotus character for some season and it's awkward and you end up not doing it. I just feel like an NBA player going on vacation is the all-time just sitting there idea, which then you could really get involved with. I don't know if Mike cares, but I was thinking about it during All-Star break.

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All these guys went away and they went like a couple of guys you could see like we're like almost a little sunburned. But I was thinking like this, this is where I would love White Lotus to go one year is have like a basketball star. And we could all try to guess what pieces of stars you took to make this star.

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Just to hang out with athletes. Yeah. And then it's like, do we get a real athlete? Do we get a fake athlete? Because the other one I was thinking was quarterbacks would be a good one too. During the off season, they go away, they bring whoever and you could have the guy brings... his wife, but also his girlfriend staying somewhere else in the hotel. And you got that whole thing going.

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Oh, I promise you he's seen the show. Magic watches all the TV. But he must be like, cause he must've been like, Who the fuck is this idiot, like grown man talking to me like he's a little boy. By the way, this happens to magic every day, like seven times a day. So I watched it a bunch of times. But it was amazing. People melt into puddles when they talk to him. Pussy's gigantic.

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I mean, you're tall, but he's... It's, it's, you just can't believe he's, he's six, nine and he's right there.

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I don't know what the right sport is, but it, I feel like it has to be NBA or football.

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Well, our friend Tommy, Tommy Alter, who people know from this pod because he was involved with it for a long time. But he said from the moment Travis Kelsey did SNL, He's like, this guy's going to be an A-list action movie star. I'm calling it now. He planted his fight. He was the first one who pointed his flag. Oh, yeah. Because I feel like we need it.

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Like, Carry On, I know it crushed for Netflix. I didn't really love Taron Egerton as the lead. We're missing, like, these guys that, like, I grew up with in the 80s, 90s. These little bit of unintentional comedy, but can act, like, just barely good enough. But they're also, like, physical and awesome.

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It would have been funny if you caught him like during White Lotus season one and he was just like working for Murray Bartlett. He was like the 20th guy in White Lotus, just came down to Hawaii to hang out.

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People like White Lotus season three? They're happy with it? Except for your three buddies, those fucking assholes?

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It's like... Well, that's why we did the pod the way we did it this year because... I love that. The one at a time. That's the only way to do it. You really have to like, oh, I think. And then an episode later, you're completely wrong. I'll be honest with you.

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I like going on vacation with shows and people being in the right hands of creators. This show is perfect. Because I've never been to Thailand and I'm never going, especially after hearing some of the things that happened to you when you were there. I'm just never going. I told my wife. She's reconciled it. She can take my daughter.

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There's no safari. That's not on the list, right? African safari.

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Yeah, because that's the great thing about this show. You have all these locations. You have fucking 10 seasons.

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Yeah, you figure it's four or five years for the window. Certainly, the Pats had three different windows during the Brady era. And as we've discussed in the past, all of them hinge on if you can nail a couple of drafts in a row, which is the Eagles did that. They're probably the best example of that, the drafts that they had the last couple of years.

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All right, we'll leave on these two things. One, Luca, you must be over the moon.

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I mean, he's already skinnier. It took like a week. Like, it feels like he already lost like five pounds. Which I love.

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So your life is basically people talking about the Luca trade with you, people suggesting White Lotus locations, and then people trying to set you up. Those are your three things.

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But White Lotus is a hot show. You're probably getting some good offers for setups. I've heard rumors.

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But yeah, it is. That's a nice one to drop at a party when you're talking to somebody. What do you do? I'm an EP on White Lotus.

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All right, Dave, good luck with the rest of the season. Thank you for having me. Nice to see you. Thanks for coming over. Of course. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sheil and Dave. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify, and you can also watch on our YouTube channel, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.

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New rewatchables as well, if you missed it. Crash, that's up there. And then White Lotus, if you're in on that show, we've been covering it on the Prestige TV podcast. Me, Mallory, and Joanna doing the recap pods. And then afterwards, during the week... Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson with their Deep Dive Theory podcast. So we have all that going. And I love that show and I'm glad Dave came on.

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And then looking out with that linebacker who now is going to become one of the top free agents, a couple of really shrewd signings where you pay... X amount for somebody, and then he turns out to be an A-lister. It's really impressive. You don't think there's an unexpected trade with them, though, right? Like, there's no, hey, here's the time to trade A.J.

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Anyway, I will see you on this podcast on Thursday.

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Brown right now for draft capital so we can get it. Like, are they going to do anything crazy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You don't think Parsons gets into play this year, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, it's the thing where... you've already committed to these other guys money-wise, and it's almost like you've made the mistake of doing that, and now you compound the mistake by doing the second thing. It's almost like the Embiid extension the Sixers did, where it's like, well, we're all in. Okay, here's the extension, and you're just making things worse. So...

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has a chance to be a really fun back and forth. Every time they play, it's going to be a fun game like the one tonight. And I'm looking forward to it. I would say for the rest of the 2020s, this is our best bet for an awesome NBA rivalry. Like Boston, Cleveland, maybe that'll get there. I doubt we're going to have all the storylines and the baggage that this one has. I don't know, Minnesota OKC.

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Eagles plus 650 on FanDuel to win the Super Bowl again. They're the favorites. KC's 7-1, which I thought was ambitious because that's an aging team in a lot of respects. I don't know. They have the same offensive line problems that half the league has. It can't be like, well, we need a left tackle. Well, cool. 15 teams need a left tackle. Kelsey, don't even know if he's coming back or not.

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I thought that was... Pretty ambitious to have them tied with the Ravens. The Ravens are 7-1 too. I probably would have had the Ravens as the favorite coming out of the AFC. Detroit's down to 9-1. San Francisco's 12-1. Buffalo plus 750. And then we get into some intriguing teams. When you go into the longer shot odds, Texans 28-1 kind of jumped out to me a whiff. Vikings 32 to one.

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.

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Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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anything you throw at it. Learn more at the all new 2025 Nissan Armada at nissanusa.com. Towing capacity varies by configuration. See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always secure cargo. All right, taping this part of the podcast with Zach Lowe. It is 1220 afternoon ET. So we don't know anything that happened in the Tuesday night games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then old friend Zach Lowe, now at The Ringer, now at Spotify. We taped something earlier today about Kawhi Leonard because the moment had arrived. Let's have a Kawhi Leonard conversation. Then Peter Schrager talk a draft. This is an awesome podcast. Can't wait for you to listen to it. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, I am taping just the top part of the pod here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're going to look backward, but look big picture. I want to talk Clippers Nuggets with you, and I want to talk about Kawhi Leonard with you. Clippers Nuggets is everything we want from a round one playoff series. Who do you think is going to win this series, by the way, now that you've seen two games?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They got out-rebounded by 18 last night and won. They survived a really great Michael Porter performance compared to his complete no-show in game one, and that didn't matter. But the Kawhi piece was the piece, and it got me thinking, you and I have known each other for basically Kawhi's entire career. I think we first...

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met each other at least like on email or wherever in 2011, which is here he was drafted. I thought one of the best pieces you ever wrote for Grantland was the Kawhi George Hill trade piece, which was, I think, I just remember when you wrote it, I was like, I feel like this is where basketball writing is heading. It's not just like, this is some sort of... It was sourced. Why did they do this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I don't think anyone's doing that again. For some reason in the early 2010s, people were like, here's some information.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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So then Kawhi, he has a couple different arcs. There's never been a career like this. And I said to you, just come on my podcast. We're not going to do an hour and a half. Let's talk about Kawhi Leonard because I can't remember really anything like this. I think it's the second biggest what-if career of all time. I'm going to start there. I think Bill Walton is still number one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I think Kawhi's second, where it's been a great career. He's making the Hall of Fame anyway. He was NBA Top 75. But there's this extra gear and it came down to bad luck and injuries, which happens so much in the NBA. But you see stuff like last night and you go back and you look through some of the history and you're like, could this guy have been like one of the 15 best players of all time?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I'm talking like... Oh. I'm talking high levels. So now you're talking like... I'm talking he's in the Durant, Barkley, Giannis, maybe heading toward where that Shaq, Moses, Akeem level. How high could it have gone? I don't know. I just don't know. Now, health is a huge part of this. Durability is a huge part of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And the best guys ever have always managed to stay on the court has been one of the things. And he wasn't able to do that, which is why it's a what if. But his best was up there with everybody from this century.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Contested shots. Right. It just... What we saw last night in game two, which is why I want to do this segment, because I don't feel like it's possible to overreact to it. What he did last night was as good as I think I've ever seen him play. And this is a guy who's had some amazing, amazing moments. But yeah, I mean, if you go through it, there's so many what ifs with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Where you start with like, what if the 2017 playoffs when he gets hurt, right? I don't think they would have beaten Golden State. I think that's one of the three or four best teams of our lifetime. But it would have been a good series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, he's going to be throwing punches. What if he signs off on the 2018 Boston trade? It's a really good what if. When Boston was trying to come after him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, that at least would have been Jalen Brown and some other stuff. I think Boston was really hesitant to actually consider talking about it because he was making it so clear this is a one-year thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It is 10 o'clock at night, almost. Just got home from Lakers, Minnesota. Game two played in Los Angeles, California at the Crypto. Used to be called Staples. I still call it Staples. It's Crypto. A must-win game for the Lakers. They did win. It was a weird one. I really wanted to have like some sort of awesome take to play off of or some grand thing to say.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And wink, wink, I'm going to a different city after when Toronto didn't care. There's the what if Kawhi just re-signs with Toronto in 2019 because they had a pretty good nucleus. Yes. you know, and you think like the league was a little bit weird there in 20 and 21, 22, could they have gotten back?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I think after, yeah. Um, There's the what if Kawhi signs with LeBron and the Lakers in 2019, which is what we thought was going to happen. And I don't even know, can they get Anthony Davis at that point? Probably, I don't know if they could, maybe they could have fit all this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I can't remember the details of it, but maybe if you get Kawhi, you don't need Anthony Davis and you're using those picks for other things. You're building around those two guys. Those two guys make sense together. What if he starts getting hurt? Within a couple months after that trade, and now LeBron has no running mate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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What if COVID doesn't happen is a really good what if for really a bunch of different people in 2020. But especially when you think about where the league was at that moment, Milwaukee was kicking everybody's ass. The Lakers and Clippers were the two best teams in the West. And it felt like there were three teams and then everyone else. And we were headed toward this LA versus LA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Then the COVID, the bubble, things get weird, whatever. And then... You know, the last one is what if he stays healthy in 2021 when he gets hurt and then Paul George elevates. But I forgot this. He played 11 playoff games that year in 2011 and he averaged 30 a game in the playoff games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And then kind of left. I went to the game where he kind of left near the end of the game. It's like, oh, that's not great. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Like they wanted to leave over trying to try to win the title. Seemed to be a feeling that was pretty pervasive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, and then you think from a Quipper standpoint, the most tortured NBA franchise we have, and 21 is just wide open. You look back at that season, it's like Bucs team that I'm not even sure was the best Bucs team. The Suns make it, right? And I think there's a bunch of teams that are like, oh, we could have beaten that if this had happened or this had happened or this had happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And I could do the first take thing and just list all the guys who need to step up. Nas Reed. Nas Reed, nine points. He's got to step up. Dante DiVincenzo, four points. You got to step up. I'm not going to do that. I have two takeaways. One slightly negative, one slightly positive. Other than the Lakers were supposed to win tonight. They took care of business.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And that ends up being our finals and the Bucs wins. But Bucs win. But I think the 22 Bucs team... you could make a case if Middleton's healthy that year, they're probably a better team than the 21 team. So anyway, a whole bunch of what ifs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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From the what if career standpoint, Walton's still number one for me because he just wins multiple titles in the late 70s and goes down as one of the best 15 guys ever. He, Kawhi is second. And then my other two for my lifetime were Andrew Toney, who really only played five years and then his feet went on him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But I just think would have been a hall of fame two guard and probably the second best two guard in the league behind Jordan. And then Bernard King was the other one, the 28, he's 28 years old when he blew out his knee. He's averaging 33 a game that year, which in 19, mid 80s standards is like 40.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And came back, but was never really the same, but he was the forward scoring Michael Jordan of that era. And then the only other one I have is Yao.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yao is the one where it's like, ah, man, we kind of forget that Yao only played like eight years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Samson's a good one. I don't... I'm not sure he knew where... Yeah, he got hurt, but I'm not... I've always felt like he spent four years in college and then it's like, am I a center? Why am I on the perimeter this month? I'm never sure he totally figured that out from like a ceiling standpoint. Yao could have been... 23 and 10 for like 15 years. But I think the China national team murdered him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then there's some other ones. There's like the TMAC and C-Web. But those are guys like they had good careers and they got hurt a little bit later. But I think those are my five. Anybody else you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, and then you think there's only three guys who ever won finals MVP for two teams and the other two are LeBron and Kareem. I have my 42 club that I still stand by as one of the dumbest, but accurate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, I got to 42 because it was the best way to cut off as many Karl Malone seasons as possible. Points, rebounds, and assists.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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If you go 42 club who made the finals... Since Michael Jordan. Shaq has three. LeBron has six. Kobe once in 01. Iverson once in 01, didn't win the title. Duncan in 03, 45.4. Kawhi in 19, 45.4. Giannis in 21, 48.1. Jokic in 23, 53.5. And Luka last year, 47.0. Gives you a sense of, first of all, how great that 19 season was. But then also like, That's where we are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And the only outlier in all that is probably Iverson, who just, he took a ton of shots, but wasn't like a points, rebounds, assists like some of these other ones. Even Kobe only made it once. And then the other thing with Kawhi, well, how many guys have gone from incredible glue guy to awesome A-plus list scorer. I was trying to think like SGA. Kawhi was a better glue guy than SGA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But where you thought their career was going to be one thing, and then it became something completely different. How many guys can you think of who were like, wow, I just didn't see this. Because we were working together and we were going to those finals games. I never thought Kawhi would be a guy who averaged 30 a game in the playoffs. That was inconceivable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Somewhere in that vicinity. 39 minutes. Rui Hachimura, who got hit in the face. He's wearing like a Batman mask. 34 minutes. Finney Smith, 38 minutes. So they basically did a Tibbs on this game. And the positive comment here is just the LeBron stuff is just incredible. He's 21-11-7. Big energy plays. Big defense. And I'm watching it going...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It was such a team win. And he did. You know, LeBron's numbers are actually pretty good when you look back at that series. But he did a good job of at least going toe to toe with LeBron, which is why I think he won. And his stats are good. He was in an interesting spot there. The first couple of years we were working together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Where he was the go-to guy, if you were talking about, you know who I really love? And he was the guy. Who's that now in 2025 where the, you know who I really love? It's like a Jalen Johnson, but on a better team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But he didn't have the pedigree of those guys, right? But it was one of those things coming out of the gate where they were like, yeah, there's something here with this guy. But I always thought his, I thought he was going to be Pippen. And Pippen was a better, like, kind of passer, creator than him. He had the ball more than Kawhi did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But to me, the best, still to this day, the best three perimeter players I've ever seen in person. And maybe, maybe a man Thompson can get here. Wow. Maybe. I don't know. What is he, 22? But the best I've ever seen in person, Pippen won, Kawhi, and Rodman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I need a long athletic perimeter to shut down this score. Who am I picking? Those are the three guys. And then after that, we can argue, but those three guys have to be on the list. Is there anybody else you would add?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Like, is it, um, you're talking about guys who could guard everybody from LeBron James to Tony Parker. Like you just, anybody basically from six, one to six, 10, they can handle. And also maybe even like you could throw quiet yoke at this point. And it's not like crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, I remember one of my last pieces I wrote for Grantland, we did this art drawing because we were talking about how Kawhi was like an octopus. He hit this level the second half of that 2015 season coming off the finals MVP. And that second half of the season, where there was a lot of storylines going, right? Like Curry, the Warriors are winning 67 games. Curry's about to win an MVP.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Blake has become one of the best five guys in the league. LeBron's in his first Cleveland season. Harden is starting to really kick ass on Houston. And it felt like this sea change of like this new generation of guys coming taking over kind of taking the steering wheel of the league. And then Kawhi was in there just wrecking everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And I remember we did this octopus drawing of him and it's, you can find it probably in the, one of the last ground, but Kawhi's face on this octopus. Cause he would just kind of be on the quarterback. I'm just going to take the ball. And he would just go over and grab the ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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This team is in basically the same situation the Warriors are in, where they're going to have to go small to be truly effective, right? The Warriors have Draymond, who is this undersized center. You can kind of get away with it. And they're always at their best when Draymond's at the five and they can surround him with shooters and stuff and do that thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I'm just going to grab it. So that stretch he had on the Spurs, basically from the second half of 15, 16, 17, leading to him stepping on Zaza's foot. Yeah. He was as good as any... And we have Durant humming on OKC at that point. We have kind of the last stages of Carmelo. We have LeBron on Cleveland. We have a lot of good forwards. And it's just this amazing forward stretch. I have him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I was thinking most talented small forwards in my lifetime. Just talented. I'm not going best career in that stuff. And LeBron's one and Bird's two. And then Kawhi versus Durant, if you're just talking Apex... It's a pretty good argument. That's almost a 3A, 3B thing. Durant's had a better career because he was more durable. I don't know the answer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I mean, it's not awesome to play him at small forward, but you can do it. But really, he has the ability to either go stretch five with him and just go smaller, or you can play him with a center. It was just more flexibility in a lineup than maybe LeBron had up until later in his career, where LeBron was like, he needed certain things around him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Those guys you could kind of mold, whatever your roster is, you could kind of mold them a little bit. But I really think those are the four best quote-unquote small forwards I've seen in my lifetime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This Lakers team, by default, is at their best when they're basically playing LeBron and Rui as the quote-unquote centers, even though they're not centers. And they're just scrambling, hustling on defense. And they're just trying to protect the rim. They're trying to get away with the physicality that you can get away with when you have LeBron James and Luka Doncic on your team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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No, it's fine. The last couple of years were a little rocky. He's wearing the back brace.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, I have my own basketball reference list. You had to play at least 20 games in a playoff season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Per game. And he had to get at least six rebounds. Here's that list.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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You're making the finals. Michael Jordan. LeBron James, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq, Kawhi, LeBron again, Giannis, LeBron a third time, Jokic. That's our list.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, you're in the Dirk, maybe a little edge above Dirk, and you're in the Duran area.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And just be physical from the gate and just keep scrambling, keep trying, keep trying, keep having energy. And LeBron was playing so freaking hard. I don't know if it came across the same way on TV, but he was playing like it was a game seven when Minnesota was trying to come back there near the end. And I was thinking there's been so many iterations of him over the years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Your guy, Hakeem, 95, 22 playoff games, 33 points a game, 10.3 rebounds, 4.5 assists. If you're criminally underrating Hakeem, you can go to hell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Or either of those guys. Yeah, a couple other quick things with him. Three first-team OMBs, three second-team OMBs. That's it for Kawhi because he kept getting hurt. You could say he's responsible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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You could say he's responsible for title teams in San Antonio, Toronto, and maybe Oklahoma City this year. Because he wants the Clippers. I'm only coming to the Clippers if you give me Paul George and that leads to... Lots of stuff that's still going on. The last 10 years of the playoff games, including the two that we just had, 2016 through the 25 playoffs...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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He's 28 and eight, 51% shooting, 39% from three, 88%, 66 games. It's a 10 year stretch, kept getting hurt. And then, oh, in the 2019 Raptors, 30 and nine, four assists, 49% field goal for the whole playoffs. But here's the other thing with him. And this is crazy. 733 regular season games total. That's his career, which seems low considering he was in the 2011 draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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So here's the list. Magic, Bird, Casey Jones, Cooper, Tommy Heinsohn, Kawhi, Duncan, Sam Jones, Russell is our top nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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When I play, my team wins almost 73% of the time. And yet I can't stay on the court. And by the way, there are Clipper fans probably listening to this going, you motherfuckers. He's going to get hurt in game three because you guys did this segment. But there's never been a career like this where he might be

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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he might end up being like the best guy in the West for the next, you know, this round and the next two, which, you know, I didn't see you talked about giving up on this. I gave up on giving up on this. I was like three levels beyond giving up on this. Even when he came back during the season, I was like, all right, this is stupid. He's just going to get hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He comes into Cleveland the first six, seven years, and it's like, what is this? He's Magic Johnson crossed with... Dr. J. That's what it seemed like. That's where we were headed. And then it's like, well, wait, he's more of a scorer than we thought. He had that 48-point game against Detroit. So the 1.0 version was like, what is this? Well, wait, there's some Jordan stuff here too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But would you rather catch the Thunder sooner or later? Would you rather catch the Thunder after they've just completely demolished this crappy Memphis team and now all of a sudden they're moving up in weight class? And they need that one game to adjust almost?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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We're saying like this, you're only doing this because you have a new arena. This is fool's gold. You just want to bring people in and make them feel okay that they can recognize a couple of players.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, and they know they can play with OKC. They have a real identity, which I think is so hard to find. And there's two teams in the East that have an identity.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, the Knicks do not have an identity. They just do not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They do not have an identity. Remember when we did that pod and I said Tibbs was my wild card? Don't be surprised. I'm feeling better about that prediction.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, good call. Okay, I'll accept it. Clippers have an identity. And unfortunately, it's built around this awesome player. And they just kind of never know with him. I heard Marcus Morris today. I saw him on ESPN Talk. He played with Kawhi and he loves him. And he was like, Kawhi was the first guy there. The guy works his ass off. He gets this reputation that he doesn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But the guy worked as hard as any team that I had. But if you talk to people around the Clippers... And Kawhi is always this thing like, yeah, we don't know. He does his own thing. He's kind of over here and we just kind of keep our fingers crossed that he's going to be awesome. The difference this time versus some of the other times, he just looks good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like when you watch him, like his side to side stuff and the athleticism, it feels like it's back. He's got lift on his jumper. Like he made a couple of jumpers last night. In traffic with a hand in his face, and he's able to elevate now like he used to, and he just has that line drive shot he can get over anybody. And he's such a weird player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's no player like him now who's like, I just want to get this 14-footer. I just want to get to my spot and get it, and I'm going to get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's putting up 27-7-7 every game. What is this? Then he has the four MVPs in five years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and basically moves into like queen of the chess i remember writing a column about it like queen of the chessboard where he just masters um the ability he's like the swiss army knife crossed with the best all-around offensive player in the league he can score when he needs to he's setting people up he's the best athlete in the league and he's just mastered whatever version that is then he goes to cleveland

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Denver was basically an underdog heading into the series. Clippers were minus 118 favorites. Denver wins game one. I talked about this Sunday night. It flips just a little. Denver became a minus 118 favorite, whereas the Minnesota things flipped wildly. Now on Fando, the Clippers are minus 180 to win this series. And honestly, if you tell me

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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no way to know this, but if you're like, Kawhi's playing the rest of the series and he'll be at the level you're seeing, I don't see how Denver wins. I also think Denver has some real issues. It goes beyond the Westbrook stuff. It's just rocky. Like, you gotta be, for what this Clippers team is with Kawhi, you have to be pretty sure of who you are and what you are and...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The Nuggets, all they know is that Jokic is fucking awesome. And I don't think they know anything else about their team, right? And they're beyond six guys. They don't even know who the seventh guy is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

3391

I thought last night as a giant Jokic watcher, as I know you are too, but last night the guy seemed like he was physically beaten up last night. He's had 20 minor injuries, nothing major, but I sound like I'm making excuses for him. He sucked last night down the stretch. He was bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, he was four for eight from three last night. I just remember... It triggered me in the memories of the Minnesota series last year when I just thought he lost his legs as that series went on because they were just absolutely murdering him game after game and they had so many big bodies to throw at him. Then by the end of it, the three-pointer started to go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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When he starts missing free throws, I always feel like that's a bad sign, but I just think the burden he's carrying on this team, especially not knowing if Porter's going to show up or not. Porter showed up last night and rebounded. I don't know if he's going to show up for game three. This seems like a team... And we've watched a lot of playoffs, and I'm even older than you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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This seems like a team teetering on this could really go badly in these next two Clipper games. Or... they'll just look... Jokic will be great in game three and be like, oh, what were we worried about? But I just feel like they're... If I go through every other team, the Knicks have real problems. We knew this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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puts on more weight. Now he's got this weird post-up power game and that's where he kind of moves through the mid-2010s there where it's like he's still the magic, not really Doc anymore hybrid. It's more like a magic Karl Malone hybrid with a little Jordan thrown in, not that much, but really magic in Karl Malone's body using the physicality.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I don't really change anything I thought of the Knicks other than I was surprised how well the Pistons have played. The seven and the eight quarters, they look good. They've won a horrible quarter and it's a 1-1 series. The Knicks, we knew they didn't have a bench. We knew they were going to have to play too many minutes with those guys. Denver... I could just see this going any direction now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And I think the Clippers are better than them. So we'll see with Kawhi.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It was the most we've ever texted about an MVP. And you did a classic Zach rope-a-dope, and you went... Although I could feel you going toward Kawhi.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The LeBron MVP conversation goes every once in a while. The only one he has a case for after 2013 is the 18 one when Harden beat him. And the numbers were around the same. I voted for Harden too, but Houston won 65 games and...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And that's why he didn't win, which nobody remembers from basketball reference.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Basketball reference doesn't capture that, unfortunately. But that's the one that I think people mentioned, but Harden clearly should have won that year. All right, Zach, you have a podcast coming Thursday?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Are you on Kaminga Watch, or have you just sold out your stock and given up?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

375.755

And that peaked in the 2018 season where he's bully balling anybody. And that's basically where He's been, he added the three-point shot. So like the 3.50 version of this was that Carl Malone magic combo with the three-point shot. I don't know what this version is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I don't think Steve Kerr does either. Zach, fantastic to see him. So glad you're with us. Thanks for coming on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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All right, we're taping this part of the podcast early my time on Tuesday morning because Peter Schrager is about to fly to Green Bay. for the NFL draft. Why are we having the NFL draft in Green Bay, the single hardest city to get to out of all the NFL cities? Why are we doing this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

3846.07

What's the longest stretch? What's the longest day you've had? How many shows have you done in one day? Did you do a three-show day yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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You love this stuff, though. You're ready to do multiple hours at a time. I mean, you were just on Get Up an hour ago, and now you're on this podcast. You're ready to go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And I don't know if he really knows either because they have this incredible offensive player on their team, Doncic, who 31-12-9 tonight. And all they're doing the whole game is trying to get Gobert to get switched on to Luka. That's it. That's the offensive strategy for the most part. Where's Conley? Can we torture him? Oh, he's not in. Let's go after Gobert.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, it does feel like the Knicks fans didn't have enough time to enjoy whatever the team that kind of blossomed last year was. And then all of a sudden, it just blew up. I personally don't think Tibbs is the right coach for the team that they currently assembled. And maybe we'll find that out after the year, whether they agree with me. But they played the two games against the Pistons at home.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And they lost seven of the eight quarters, basically?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Multi-sport capability, passion, optimism. We're going to talk NFL draft, which we haven't talked about in the last five, six weeks as I've thrown myself into it. I don't even know where to start because on the one hand, it feels like a draft that can go chalk. You were on Get Up today reporting that teams are trying to trade up for two or three. Yep.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And we don't even really know for who, whether it's like a Travis Hunter play, is it an Abdul Carter play, is it? I just refuse to believe Sanders is a top three pick at this point. Even if the Giants wanted to take him at three, why wouldn't they just flip picks with the Patriots and try to get like a third round pick or anything? Why would they take him at three? Why not move back?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I want to move back one spot. I can't imagine in a million years he goes three. I'm not even sure he goes in the first round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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This is the Bo Nix Denver last year, right? No doubt. You know what? We like him. We'll just take him 12. Can we get him at 28? Sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And LeBron's over in the corner watching for key possessions. And it's really weird to watch in person because he still looks like LeBron. He's still as athletic as... you know, as he was in his post-prime, he can still create his own shot. He still was doing all the same, you know, looking for teammates, all that stuff. And then there's times he just seems marginalized.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Shepter had a tidbit about how, which I agree with, that some organizations slash coaching staffs would be afraid of taking Sanders because Deion is just looming over you as your replacement as head coach the moment you take his son, which I think ties into what I see with the Giants. And, you know, I have some intel on the Pats. The Pats don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The Pats don't know what the Giants are going to do. And the Pats are heading into this draft prepared to not know up until the Giants are on the clock and then building out all their scenarios from there. But I think the intel a lot of people are having are you have the people who, they might not be there in a year in the Giants, right? The GM, the coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Coming up, I'm talking NBA playoffs. I'm talking Kawhi Leonard. I'm talking the NFL draft. It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Minority Report. It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. You can watch this video podcast on Spotify. You can watch it as... a YouTube video on our ringer movies, YouTube channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, they just, can we just take the best possible player and whatever. You have the long-term planning people who are like, maybe we can, you know. maybe we could turn this pick into a bigger asset, and then you have the owner, who knows what the family thinks. So you basically have three different sides, all who have these vested interests.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

4338.8

Like what if Dayball's like, I'm going to get fired unless we take Sanders at three and he's good. If Sanders is at three and he's good, I might keep my job for a little bit. He might also think the opposite way and be like, if we take Sanders, I'm definitely getting fired. No doubt. No doubt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It's so interesting how many different agendas are going on and what a mess they've been for the last decade, which is just a fact.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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You kind of forget he's out there for a couple of possessions. And he's figured out always how to be involved in the game, even if he's not involved in the play. And he's always moving. He's always hustling. He's using his brain. And it was really cool to watch. I was really impressed. So for them, he's kind of a little dream on defense, I guess. Better rebounder.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Lamar had like what, like a 20 pick swing for where he could go. Like it would have been shocking if he was in the high teens. It would have been shocking if he fell to the second round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, that's the Patriots with Brady. They passed on him in the fourth round and the fifth round. No doubt. And then they took him in the sixth round. So it's smart, but you also passed on him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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A couple other things just because... Wait, can I ask you a question before you do the couple other things? Yeah. What's the craziest team in round one that could take Shador that you think there's actually like a 1% chance it could happen? So it's completely insane, but also you could see it. Is there a team? There's two teams. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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We'll still sign for maybe, you know, but not at 11, but maybe a trade back. Yeah. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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He had how many rebounds he had tonight? 11 rebounds. Trying to protect the rim every once in a while and then just keeping energy, attacking, trying to get offensive rebounds and picking his spots. And when they need him, you know, he missed a few wide open shots today, which was uncharacteristic for him. But I thought it was really cool to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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All right, we'll hold on to the Niners because I want to come back to them. What was your couple other things that you had off this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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That would also add- And meanwhile, people are saying like, eh, he might be Andy Dalton, Teddy Bridgewater, like that level. That's probably the ceiling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Listen, after Nick's last year... I just think that's the league now. If you like your guy, who's going to remember 10 years ago what number in the draft he was? If you want your guy, you want your guy. And if you talk yourself into a QB, which is the make or break position every year, you're going to do it. And it doesn't really matter where you take him. Three is too high.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And whatever balance they found tonight is just how they're going to have to play. And I don't know if it's sustainable, but when you think about it, I said this before, to win three rounds in the playoffs, you have to go 12 and nine. So can this team be slightly above 500 for three rounds? Maybe. I personally don't think either of these teams are going to win three rounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Did Fubo come after you when you were a free agent? I'm waiting for the Fubo. No Fubo talks?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Can we just all agree, and maybe I'm saying this selfishly as a Pats fan with the fourth pick in a three-part draft, the most fun outcome to all of this is the Pats and Giants flip picks. The Pats take Carter. Sanders goes to the Giants at four. And we just get to talk about that for the rest of the offseason, heading into the thing. And maybe he's a little better than we thought.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And the Giants fans will talk themselves into him almost immediately. Them taking Carter is just a weird pick. That's another piece of this. That team has holes everywhere. I would say the only thing they don't really need to address in the 2025 draft is the defensive line.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And then on the other end... Did you pay for Burns? Burns, they spent a lot of money on Burns. You're almost like, do you take Carter? Maybe you shop Thibodeau at that point and you decide not to pay him. For a team that has holes everywhere, it just seems like such a weird pick to me. But that's how top-heavy this draft is until we get to Gentee. who's the wild card of everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I want to talk about that. Let's take a break quick. All right. Jenty, the running back. Just a beast. He's doing the thing where he's just calling out teams. If you take me, I'm going to be awesome. Here's my letter. Here's my promise. It's a position that you think back to when Zeke Elliott was in the draft and he was awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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That was 2016 and he seems like he's 100 years old now and he's like 31. It's a seven, eight year shelf life. You might get the guy in the rookie contract plus one more contract. If you get eight, nine, 10 years out of a running back, it's amazing. And yet, he has a chance to be immediately one of the top five guys at his position.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Now it's a position that when you're paying for it, when you see like free agency and you see the numbers different positions get, What did Barkley get? What was his last contract? Like 16, 17 a year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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16, 17 range? It was 12, yeah. So McCaffrey is like somewhere in the 12 to 14 with some bonus?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Right, so the high end is 16, 17. If I have one of the top five left tackles, that high end is... you know, in the high 20s. If I have one of the best nose tackles, that high end is what the Patriots played Williams. That's, you know, that's in the mid 20s. If I have a cornerback or a receiver, cornerback might be high 20s. Receiver, the market now is like low 30s. Quarterback is 50s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Um, edge rusher that's in the thirties now. So I look at like where the pats are picking at four and it's like, you can take gente. You have a top five guy at your position going forward, but it's a position that is valued at 13 to 16 million a year at the highest possible end of it. But if you take the edge rusher from Georgia and he's good, that's now like a $28 million a year guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I think it's going to be OKC Clippers. Whoever wins that series will be in the finals. I thought that before the playoffs. I think that now. But when you think of what they did tonight on FanDuel, That's moved down to minus 112, the Lakers. Minnesota was, I think they were minus 180 after they won game one. So this series is just swinging back and forth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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So I don't understand why teams don't just think this way. Like, what are the best players worth in our salary cap? And why don't they just shift their drafts that way? But they don't think that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And eventually you have to... You're getting an $8 million guy that's worth $28 million. who's getting you 15 sacks, that's why I would just be talking about this constantly if I ran an NFL team. That's why the Will Campbell thing, if Will Campbell goes four and he's the 15th best left tackle in the league, it's like, that sucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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We don't even have one of the best 14 left tackles, but he's still worth like 29 million a year as a left tackle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The pushback I got last night... Like a rich man, Jameer Gibbs, basically?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It's like my guy Drake May in North Carolina. No doubt. My home is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5217.835

Here's the problem. I just was looking up as you were talking the 2023 draft. Let's go. Bijan goes eight to Atlanta. Solid pick. Everybody was like one of the best running back prospects of the last decade. This guy's awesome. I like it. Jalen Carter goes ninth. Yeah. What's a more important position? Who's going to make more money on their second contract?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And I picked Lakers in seven before the series. I will say this, and this leads to my second point because I want to talk about Edwards for a second. Minnesota has to win this in six. I don't, I know, like I said on Sunday's pod, this team doesn't care where they play. They're not afraid of anybody. And I certainly didn't think they seemed afraid tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Like you think, and it's like, now you look back and you're like, wow, that was stupid. Now there are reasons Jalen Carter fell to nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5263.278

It's a great question. Jameer Gibbs goes 12. You were all excited about it. We were doing podcasts that year and you were like, this is an amazing pick. This is like a toy for the Lions that this weapon they just get to use and move around. I think the difference with Jente that would really fuck with me if I was in a draft room is that he's just three downs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5285.096

You have a guy who doesn't basically have to come off the field and who can play however many downs, touches, whatever. Yeah, look at the Patriots. They don't have enough left tackle. If they had him and Drake May, does this become Peyton Manning, Edgerton James for seven years? And you can keep him on third down. Now he's probably our best receiver on the field anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5311.795

I don't think they should take him at four, but I'm sure they've had the conversation. But it seems like if he goes to the Bears at 10, I wonder if that's like a Gibbs kind of toy situation. Like, whoa. I don't see him going past 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The Lakers just had more energy than they did. but this is going to be a tough place to play a game seven because of how good of a, how smart of a player Luca is offensively combined with how smart LeBron is and just the way they can pick their spots, how the energy of the crowd can kind of keep sustaining them and how JJ now realizes I can't play Jackson Hayes anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5447.481

A couple of things in Campbell's favor, just in general. Van Lathan, giant OSU fan, absolutely loves him. Thinks he's a warrior. He was in the ESCC just battling all these dudes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Van and Jaden Daniels was another one. He absolutely loved Jaden Daniels. Van's been good. Is he big on Nas Reed?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5467.554

I don't remember his Nas Reed takes. Campbell, so he shows up, what is he, 18 as a freshman? And he's just immediately thrown into the fire. Like a man's man, leader, played every play, tough as nails. I heard this tidbit about Vrabel. I don't know if you've heard it. And it seems insane and I loved it. And I'm going to share it here. Apparently when he's working out people...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5495.703

He has this thing about body mass and feeling like banging bodies. And if it's the right kind of player that they're looking at, he'll actually put on the pads and bounce against them to feel what their body's like. Like he's a big, how sturdy are you? How physical?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5523.529

No, it's real. Okay. So I would say like Will Campbell, who poor Will Campbell, that his arms aren't an inch longer, right? An inch is like this big, by the way. And it's like, oh, Couldn't get to 34 inches. I don't know. Meanwhile, there's a bunch of... Like, Sean Slater's been pretty good. Yeah. That was the knock on him. Joe Thomas has been okay. Yep. But it just feels like Will Campbell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5548.323

I could see Bray will put in the pads on him and hitting him and be like, yeah, this is my kind of body mask guy. I just think they're going to take him. Yeah. And it's like, look, if he...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5557.583

Maybe he won't ever be one of the eight best left tackles in the league, but this is a guy who would be, he's going to be a leader, he's durable, and he will be in the top half of left tackles, which is all you need because you can't find them. They're not falling out of trees, period.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5589.718

Could you be a four-time All-Pro at left guard? Is that a loss? Quentin Nelson went sixth overall. Is Quentin Nelson a loss for the Colts?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

5600.888

He was the best at his position for a decade. I think he'd sign up for that. But that's what, when you're picking fourth, or you're picking fifth, or you're picking third, if you're in the top five, I have to get a blue chipper. And the only way I'm not doing that is if there's some quarterback that I'm doing my 50-50 coin toss on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Would that guy from Pittsburgh who nobody had ever heard of who signed as a free agent, the left tackle? More? Yeah. Yeah. Didn't he get like 20 million a year? 20 million. Yes. And, and everybody was like, we're not sure he's a starter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

564.53

I basically have six guys, six and a half backs. I just think it's going to be, a hard place to win when they can always just default to, all right, Luca, where's Gobert? Let's do that again. And I think Minnesota, you know, they have three and four at home. The longer the series goes, the Lakers are probably just thinking, can we just somehow get this to seven?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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So when you think of it that way, if Campbell could just be the 14th best left tackle in the league, if that's his ceiling, it's like, well, that's probably a $29 million player. And you have him for five years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But he was in the conversation. No, no, he was a fast riser, though. There's no question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Obviously, I've done a lot of Membu work. I have two questions. One, did Vrabel put the pads on with him yet? Bang and feel him out and put him in some wrestling moves. Does Vrabel like his body mass? That would be one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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So that door is not shut yet. So this is what I know and what I've heard with the Pats, where there's two types of players you're picking, right? And Belichick, I think his mistake, especially over the last 10 years, was he would default toward these winning programs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And you're getting guys from LSU, Alabama, who have already been maximized because those teams have the greatest possible college coaching staff. So you're getting somebody out of there and they've already been really well-schooled. They've been whatever's in there, a lot of it's been pulled out. And that's why it's safer bets to take some of these guys, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The question for the Pats is they have an awesome coaching staff now that they feel really good about. And can you look at some of these guys from schools that maybe weren't the greatest, maybe didn't have a defensive coordinator making $2 million a year or whatever, and maybe there's some raw gem stuff worth there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And it's like, well, what happens if we take this raw, awesome piece of something who already has blue chip talent and we pull him into our universe and we coach him up? I think that's what Washington thought last year with some of their guys, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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They thought like they went and got these B-list veterans, put a bunch of like smart, just tough vets, and then kind of took some chances on, eh, that guy was never in the right situation. Let's give him a test drive because we love our nucleus. I think that's how the Pats are feeling, which is why I think Membo can't be ruled out at four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But let's also get assistant coaches who are overqualified at all these different spots, which is kind of what the Pats are doing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And then he took Cole Strange. Right. Well, they went older. That was a new strategy near the end. Older guys who they could come in right away and be plug and play, which also didn't really... work that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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If we're just going to trade wins, whatever. If we have that seven at home, we would have so many advantages. They're so hard to officiate to, you know, the way that everybody's bouncing off everybody. So I still feel like this is seven. And if you're telling me these two teams are playing in a game seven from what I watched tonight, I would still slightly tilt toward the Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, but who, what team is that? Because if you go through it, it's not anybody else in the top five. It's not, I don't think it's the Raiders. I don't think it's the Raiders. It's not the Jets. The Panthers are too far away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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If I were them, I wouldn't. The Bears were the one I was looking at as a move-up team. The Bears are a trade-back team. Because they have some talent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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They went up and got Trey Lance. I don't see it. I don't see any of those teams in the top 15 being a, whoa, if we get this guy. Do you? Miami Dolphins? I don't know. They're a mess. Come on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The only team that does seem crazy to me is the Raiders. Just because new coach. New coach, new GM. Tom Brady making a splash. They fall in love with Hunter. They think he can play both ways. And... From what you talk to everybody and you do the on the record, then off the record, and you love hearing little tidbits about character and all the stuff that sometimes you can't even use, injury stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Is anyone worried about Carter and the stress thing in his foot? It's not a stress fracture, but it's not great either. What is that? I'll say this. His dad, like there's like all this stuff you're hearing about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, listen, if you're a great edge rusher, you got to be a little selfish.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But, you know, would I be surprised if Minnesota wins? No. So the first take is Lakers did their job today because there was another scenario in this game where they go down 0-2 and it just feels like everything's going to self-combust. But that did not happen. Second piece. Edwards had a weird game. And, you know, he's young. He's 23, 24. I can't remember.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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All right. So you be the Giants and I'll be Vrabel. Who's taking the phone call for the Giants for a trade? Joe Shane. Okay. You be Joe Shane. I'll be Vrabel. Okay. Joe, how are you? Hey, what's up, Mike? You know what you're doing at three yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I have an idea. We can flip picks three to four. I'll give you my second next year and I'll give you my fourth next year and you just move back one spot. That's my offer. And also, I'm willing to talk about it a little bit. Who am I taking at four if that's the case? What are you implying? If you like Sanders, why do you have to take him at three? Take him at four and get some stuff back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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What was the little extra for that? I can't remember for Trubisky. Wasn't that much, right? It was like a second?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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What happens if you, Joe Shane, comes back and says... I'll flip spots with you, but I want your first next year and I'll give you my third.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Jesus. I got to hang up. I got to talk to Kraft. I got to talk to Kraft and yell at him for not tanking week 18.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Yeah, see, the Pats need so many things. They're probably better off just staying at four and taking Will Campbell. But if they think Carter is Michael Parsons and the price would be flipping picks with the Giants, I think the Pats are going to be good next year. I don't think they're going to win the Super Bowl, but I think they could go 9-8, 10-7 if they hit a couple picks. Roster's better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Coach is better. If they think they can get a left tackle who can start next year at the top of the second round, I think you have to think about trying to trade up a spot. And I can't believe they're in this position because Buffalo out-tanked them, which I'll never get over.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Joe Milton just looking like Dan Marino out there. Mike, wait. Just hand the ball off and the guy's going to fall down. I have some lingering questions. Last year, the shocker was Pennix. Yeah. If you had to handicap this... What is the Penix bomb of this year? What is the shocker? You just had to have one guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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You can see all the clips from this podcast on the bill Simmons, YouTube channel, including us going live on Sundays with Priscilla. So subscribe to that channel. You'll get all of our live stuff when we're, when we're doing it. Uh, NFL drafts coming on Thursday. We have the ringer NFL draft guide. We have Todd McShay's newsletter and his podcast with the ringer NFL draft show. We have the, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And, you know, he had nine assists in the first game and played with the energy and pizzazz. I think he was hurt. Like the shoulder was bugging him. Basically didn't do anything. Wouldn't shoot in the first quarter as the Lakers are taking a big lead and ends the game. He has, I'm going to say zero assists. Yeah. 25.0 assists. Ends up taking 22 shots, but didn't really shoot in the first quarter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Do you think Vrabel put the pads on with him yet? Vrabel might want to wrestle with him a little bit. Put him in a headlock, see what he's like. So you have your mock draft coming on Wednesday. Yep. And this has been a mock draft that has been very successful by mock draft standards. So you'll send spots to teams and do who's missing, what's crazy, what jumps out at you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Gray Zabel almost seems like a fake name. Gray Zabel. I'm going to get the jersey for you. It's like, yeah, there's this new HBO show starring Gray Zabel. Have you seen it? I have one draft take about a top 10 guy. Let me hear. Now, granted, I parachute in and I barely watched college season. You're good. Dude, you're good. You love this shit. I think I'm pretty good about whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I've had some good moments over the years. Tet scares me. You're not alone. Here's why. Because the Pats, who have done the worst job ever of drafting receivers since forever. And here's where I've landed with receivers. And it sounds stupid, but it's really not. I just want guys who are open. When I'm watching the clips, the guys are wide open. I want speed and I want the ability to get open.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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These guys, he's a big guy. He's unbelievable. Catches in traffic. Nobody uses his body. I would just rather not take a chance on those guys. We've had those guys. Like we had the Nikhil Harry. I think when you get to the pros and everybody's more covered than they were in college and guys have people draped around them all the time, I just think it's harder to succeed. I just want speed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The Chiefs don't do this. The Chiefs are like, let's get Xavier Worthy. He's fast. That's his guy. Guess what? We'll run plays for him and he'll just be open. And then our quarterback will throw him the ball. Ladd McConkie was another one. It's like, ah, what is he? It's like, I don't know, he's always open. That seems positive. I just, I wouldn't, now if you were in the teens, it's different.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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But if you're talking about like Jacksonville at five, And it's a guy whose biggest skill is how good he is in traffic and how physical he is. It just makes me nervous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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This is the last level for him and he's not close yet. He might be two years away from me yet. And we saw him do it for a stretch last year in those first two rounds where he put together, I think it was seven, eight games where there was just a real mastery of the moment, the game, the other team, how to set up everybody, just how to impact the game for four quarters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The basement or the floor could be... The ceiling is Mike Evans who said one of the best wide receiver careers start to finish of anyone in the last 30 years. Good ceiling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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That's why I'm scared about him because this is what happens with the draft. When you're in this cluster and you're way better than everyone else in the cluster, but it's a bad cluster. This is the same thing with the quarterbacks. No doubt. Jackson Dart wouldn't have gotten drafted in the first 45 picks last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It feels very Dallas Cowboys-y at number 12 to me. Got the same type of body type as CeeDee Lamb, though. No, I'm just saying like, ah, now look at me, Dak and these two, this is the Eagles blueprint. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I think he goes in the teens. So I want to talk about the Niners at 11. Yeah. Sal and I did guess the lines over-unders for the first time ever this year. And I was four and a half, I was four wins off on the Niners. I thought it was going to be six and a half. It was 10 and a half. It's still 10 and a half on FanDuel, even though there's a bunch of action. There's minus 130 under.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And there's reasons for it. The schedule, the divisions they play. They have fourth place schedule, all that stuff. And yet I'm looking at the Niners at 11. Do they think they're good? No. And if they do think they're good, are they going to get aggressive? Are they going to try to move up? Will they try to move back? They feel like a pivot team to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The Bears are staying at 10 and they're going to take a weapon, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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He did not have that tonight. I'm not surprised because I think, as I've said before, 26-27 is when I really think a guy turns into who they're going to be. And right now he is 23 years old. He turns 24 on August 5th. This is what they need from him if they're going to win three straight rounds because the conference is just better this year. Just this. So you win this series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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You're trying to get all the way up to three for Carter. See, I think Mason Graham is the guy who could potentially fall five, six spots. He might. The... you know, awesome middle of the line guy. There was a moment where I would have been psyched if the Pats took him, but then they signed Williams. So it makes sense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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So was that eight? Eight. This is like, how does he not have a reality show? I love it. And his wife is the best.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I'm like, God bless him. I love that man. His new child, Aaron Rodgers Salah. Yeah, the Niners to me, major wild card. Miami, a team that kind of needs everything and is being held hostage by whatever the hell is going on with Tyra Kill. Another question for you. Yeah. do the Rams just draft a QB or is that weird? Yeah. Cause they think they can win the Superbowl. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Cause we hear about the teams that second round is like, we'll trade up and get our quarterback. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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All right, here's my big prediction. It's not even a crazy prediction because I think it's in the ether.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Okay. I think Cousins ends up on the Steelers. Go on. It's been floated out there. There's been scenarios. There's a couple things that don't add up. And you read some of the intel from people like Schefter, where the Falcons are like, yeah, we trade him, but you got to pay some of his salary. And teams are like, well, we'll pay 10. It's like, no, it's got to be 20.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The Falcons have no leverage at all. What are they going to do? They're going to pay Kirk Cousins a gazillion dollars to be their backup? They have to trade him. They have to trade him this week and they have to trade him to a team that is going to start to freak out that they don't have a quarterback yet, which is basically the Pittsburgh Steelers. So if the Steelers can be like, fine,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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we'll pay $11 million or $12 million, whatever. The Falcons, this is a sunk cost. Any money they can get back to dump his contract, they've got to do it. You can't keep him. They probably feel like they're going to be pretty good. They're in a crappy division. Who knows? I just think he ends up on the Steelers, and I don't think the Sanders thing is as important for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Everybody has them taking Sanders. I feel like they could pass on him at 21, maybe get him in the second round and still get Cousins. I, by the way, think Cousins is washed and I think it's a mistake.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Now you're playing Golden State probably next round, I would guess. Maybe Houston if Houston crawls back, but probably Golden State. And then after that, you're playing the winner of OKC and I assume the Clippers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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You'd rather pay Joe Flacco $4 million than Kirk Cousins $10. Or pay 10 for Kirk Cousins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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At least you're getting a guy that everybody loves being a teammate of.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Can we agree it's kind of dumbfounding that they've had no solution and it's past mid-April now? They have no quarterback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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There's a sense of the moment slash mastery for him that went a little sideways in the Dallas series and the conference finals last year and same thing this time where the guy that he's going to be that he's not yet you kind of feel it in games like tonight. He just seemed young to me tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It's ridiculous. Okay. I think we hit everything. Except Kyle Brandt, some hurtful comments on the last Rewatchables. I didn't listen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I'm giving you a platform. How are you guys doing? Kyle and I are good. You guys are like a married couple. It's sad. It's sad. How many years was it? It was a divorce that he had nothing to do with. It wasn't even a divorce. It was like, I don't know what it was. I fell in love.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Well, you know what's going to have to happen? The three of us are going to have to do rewatchables. That's how it's going to have to play out. That's going to have to be the reunion ending.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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We're going to have to figure out a rewatchables for the three of us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Art house theater guy? Black box theater we want to talk about. Was there hazing stuff at ESPN when you came in as the new guy? Did anybody just like not talk to you for a week and shit like that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It's like Minority Report. No, we're all happy for you. I love you for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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I love working with you and I love being a part of your world. All right. Well, it's great to see you. Safe travels to Green Bay. Good luck with the Knicks. I'll be interested to see if we hit any of this stuff. And if Rabel is at the draft and wants to put the pads on and try to get you in some wrestling moves, just be ready for it. That's it. You might want to feel your body best. I know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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All right. Schrags, great to see you. Thank you. All right. You're the man. Thanks, dude. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Zach and Schrags. Thanks to Gahal and Saruti as well. And don't forget, I have a new podcast coming on Thursday. Don't forget to catch up on Celtic City on Max, episode eight, the KG era. It's an awesome one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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So if you missed it, try to, I know there's a lot of basketball games on right now, but try to squeeze that in. And then new rewatchables, Minority Report. You can go check that out. as a video podcast on Spotify or on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Don't forget to subscribe to my channel, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And I will see you on Thursday, NBA playoffs and the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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He seemed like a young, awesome player that just seemed good that they won game one and didn't seem desperate in the right way. And that's fine. That's where you won the game, you're going back to Minnesota, you win three, and you're done. And you get to the next round. But I think what he'll learn in situations like this, like when you're talking like 27-year-old Ant,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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It's going to be hectic, but I will see you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The thing that he's going to learn that I don't think he really fully realizes yet is like, this is a, you know, go for the jugular game. This is like, if we go up 0-2, they're not going to come back. We're going to have three games in Minnesota. And he just didn't have that tonight. And again, I don't know how hurt he is, but it was a weird one from him. Minnesota also couldn't make a three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Part of that had to do with how the Lakers are scrambled around, but Minnesota finished five for 25. after they went like 30 for 40 in game one, I think. But it was a game that Ant just couldn't match the intensity of the other team. Randall was ironically really good. He had 27.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Physically, I noticed, especially in person, watching the bodies bang, because you always get a better sense of it in person. Um, he, he bangs with LeBron. He bangs with Luca. Like he's as big and as strong at Rui. He's as big, as strong as anyone in the Lakers. And it actually seems like a really good matchup. The problem for Minnesota is the Conley piece. Conley, uh, zero points today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Oh, for five had some wide open shots and just looked old and they didn't really know what to do. Um, defense got in foul trouble right away, but, uh, I'm still not positive who the best five guys are as a unit on this Minnesota team. And I think not positive they know either. So I don't know what's going to happen in this series. It's really going to depend on two things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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the ringer NFL show, uh, we're covering the draft and all these different ways. I'm going to be talking about a little bit later with our old friend, Peter Schrager. Now at ESPN. Yeah, he's going to be on. Uh, but first at the very top of the podcast, I went to Lakers, Minnesota tonight, came back, race back from the game. and can give you my quick takes on what I saw in game two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Can the Lakers get away with playing those four guys as many minutes as they played them tonight? Because I think they're going to have to to win four games. That's one. And then the second is, does Ian have it in him to be the best player in this series? because I don't see another scenario that they win three more games unless he can rise up a level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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He had that incredible dunk in the third quarter. That was breathtaking. But this feels like it's an Ant versus Lucas series. That was my takeaway tonight. I think LeBron is going to do what he did tonight, and he's going to... He's a fixed cost in this series. I know what I'm getting from him for the most part.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The threes are gonna come and go, but for the most part, we're gonna get the energy and the creativity like we had tonight. Luka is the wild card because he might have 45 points in game three. And then Ant on the other end, what can he create? And how much can they survive this weird Gobert thing? He was really bad today.

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Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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He was six and six, some Butterfinger moments, and they just kept attacking him and attacking him and attacking him. And ultimately, who's their best five? So this is why we love seven-game series. This is going to keep moving and keep changing. But when I think back to this game, during the summer, I'm going to think of just how fucking hard LeBron played. I really respect it.

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Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Guys, you know, it's like the Brady thing. You know, when Brady was at the tail end of his career, he just, the competitiveness almost went up because there's legacy stuff and you're comparing your career to like the best parts ever. And there's some sort of drive that has to kick in to keep the process going.

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Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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And what we saw from LeBron tonight was really, I know the box score was pretty pedestrian, but, um, man, he really gives a shit. I really respect it. Uh, we're going to take a break and we're going to come back and Zach Lowe and I are going to talk about Kawhi Leonard. The NBA playoffs in full swing. There's no better way to be part of the action with FanDuel, America's number one sports book.

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Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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Ageless LeBron, Kawhi’s Crazy Career and NFL Draft Burning Questions With Zach Lowe and Peter Schrager

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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It exacerbated all the things I was worried about, which is ball handling, Conley's age, the fact that they don't really have a backup point guard, that it seems like Edwards is going to have to have the ball a lot. And I think OKC was ready for that, especially in the second half. You could say like, oh, you're going to have Edwards bring it up.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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We're going to actually make it really difficult for him. And OKC, especially at home, with the ability to snap the switch for four minutes... I'm worried for Minnesota. Um, cause I'm trying to think what's the roadmap for them to be awesome in this series. When you think how bad OKC played for the first half of this game, basically for them, and then they still win the game easily.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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But we had to balance that out with a guy whose team is going bad, Ben Thompson. who is going to yell at me about my Giannis Moby trade idea and tell me where Giannis should actually go. So we got a lot going on in this podcast. Wanted to say RIP to George Wendt, who played Norm Peterson on Cheers and did a whole bunch of other good stuff too. He was a great SNL host.

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Um, I guess it starts with Edwards. It was only 18 points. Um, typical, like weird feeling it out. He does this sometimes he didn't, there was a Laker game like this too. There was the first game of the warrior series. where it's like this, it's almost like a feel out game, but it lasts the whole game.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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And then the game's over and they lost, but I would assume he's going to come out way more aggressive.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I want, yo, we're playing the best team in the league and I'm in their house and I'm stealing this game from them. I didn't feel that at all in this game. Now, he did get hurt in the first half, and I don't know if that tweaked whatever was going on. Randall also had a huge first half, so maybe back off, but he's got to win the swagger battle with this. You beat OKC by...

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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It sounds stupid, and it's the opposite of second spectrum. And I liked your second spectrum voice that you broke out, by the way, your nerdy second spectrum voice.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I think for him, he's got to be talking shit. He's got to feel like... He's the alpha on the court. I didn't feel that at all in this game. Randall, ironically, was the one that was starting to carry himself that way. And it was interesting to watch OKC swing their everything they were doing defensively to try to just kind of take him out. I mean, the Caruso piece of this.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I was thinking how, as you know, I always want more awards because I think we need stuff to commemorate the season well after the fact and be like, oh, that was the season when this happened and this happened and this happened. If we had a role player of the playoffs award, I feel like Caruso would be like minus 700 on FanDuel to take it at this point.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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To watch somebody guard Randall, Edwards, and Jokic well... in a 48 hour span, who else is doing that?

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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You have to think of it like it's, it's a movie poster and it can't be somebody who would be one of the two or three faces in the movie poster or in the, like the TNT, uh, when they're doing the commercial for the game, it would be weird if they were in the game. Like Julius Randall is not eligible.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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He was in a bunch of movies, but Norm became, I think, a big part of his legacy. Cheers was one of my favorite shows ever. I was almost ready to say it was my favorite show ever, but I don't even know. Now that I'm older, it's really hard to have a favorite show ever. But you definitely have that top, top list of most favorites, most shows you'd love the most. And I love Cheers so much.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I think he is because if you're doing the Nuggets movie poster, it's the three guys, right? So it'd be Christian Brown in that case would be your role player.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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When he's looking up and it's like, oh, there's 11 minutes and 10 seconds left in the fourth quarter. I probably can't come back yet. They told me they wanted me to get to nine minutes. How did that? Oh, God. Russ just turned the ball over again. Oh, now it's 1050. Let's talk. Can we talk a little more about Ant?

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Yeah. Case and Wallace was in there for a little bit and you, okay. So it was, that's two guys. You just completely forgot we're on the team. And then they're just kicking ass for three straight minutes. I think the thing that okay. See, seems like they love is if somebody is going straight up one-on-one and almost like the old school one forward.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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And it's like, I'm going to go one-on-one, beat a guy and just try to get to the basket. They're like, great, please try that. We're ready in so many different ways. It seems like you got to attack them on the sides with angles.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Because I feel like the Celtics fell into the same kind of issues with Tatum when it would go bad, when it was always like him 40 feet from the basket straight ahead versus when they would put him on the left or the right and he could kind of veer toward the paint and decide like what to do off the dribble. I always felt like he was better.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Maybe that's what they're going to have to do with Edwards. And I thought they found something the first half of the Gobert pick and rolls and then they just stopped.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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And, uh, I just thought Norm, when you talk about like the great supporting characters, which I think is a little different than a star of a show, you know, like you think Seinfeld, Seinfeld was the star of Seinfeld, but I think George and Elaine were also stars. And then Kramer was like the, at least for the first few years, like the kind of supporting character sidekick.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Yeah. Well, the problem if you're the other team, that's playing whoever, the favorite, you kind of have to win game one, I feel like, to pull off an upset. The Thunder were 68-14 this season. They're 8-3 in the playoffs. Now you have to beat them four out of six times, basically, to send them packing. And that includes winning at least one game on the road, right?

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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And I guess game seven on the road. Just a tall task. I thought this was the game they had to steal, especially OKC. Definitely seemed tired that first half. Randall's playing great. This is the game he probably takes. So I don't really know. In terms of tweaks, I feel like it's going to be easier for OKC to tweak this and use the last quarter and a half to their advantage.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Hey, we worked with FanDuel long hours trying to figure out a great idea for the NBA playoffs, and we stumbled into a really good one that we've been doing for the last couple weeks. We've won two weeks in a row. It's called Tail or Fade. I make a prop that I like. And you can either back me or you can go against me.

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And it's hit the last two weeks and it's going to hit again this week because we were going Carl Anthony Towns under 24 and a half points. It's the first under prop that I've done. And by the way, if you think I'm wrong, fade me, go the other way. I think he's going to score 25 points or more.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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If we win the bet together, go trash talk your friends because they didn't believe in us. I believe in us. We're going to do this. Fandle.com slash BS. That's where you can find, that's where you can download America's number one sports book and make every moment more. You must be 21 plus in president select states or 18 plus president in DC.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Opt-in required bonus issued as non-retirable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandle.com. Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant. Remember last year, people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula?

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One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? Degree listened. They admitted they messed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent, and thank God. You've got to love when a brand can own its mistakes, and it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores right now for under $4. Grab some.

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Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers. The original degree cool rushes back, and it smells like victory for all of us. Are you ready to... wrap your head around OKC actually winning the title. I know they're the favorite all year.

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And he was awesome, but there's, it's so hard to pull that off to thread the needle when you're not like one of the biggest stars of the show. Yeah. But you're still awesome. And Norm is like, I think the number one example of it. There's some other one. Everybody has if it's generational. You know, the shows you like for me, it's the shows that I grew up watching in the 70s and the 80s.

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I know we've talked about it, prepared for it. They were an incredible regular season. But they still seem so young to me when I'm watching it. It just seems like they're going to win this and it still feels like they have their future ahead of them, which is a really unusual place for a champion to be. You know what I mean?

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Seven wins away now. And it doesn't I feel like Denver might have been the best chance to beat them.

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It sure feels like it. The Denver thing really put some chest hair on them. And I was talking to some people yesterday about the Denver game. Obviously, they didn't break Jokic. He's incredible. But it was interesting to watch him run out of solutions. And I potted right afterwards with Rosillo, but I was still thinking about the game after. When they just weren't able to get him the ball.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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It's unbelievable. For long swaths of the game. And finally, Jokic, he really didn't shoot that much. I think he had 17 points at halftime. He might have finished with 20. I felt like they broke the nuggets a little bit in that game. That's another team. It's not just that you have a chance to win the title. You're also leaving wreckage of teams behind.

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I don't know what happens to that Denver team going forward or what the moves are or how you fix... kind of this nucleus that feels like it's just not going to be good enough anymore. But that's a piece of it. And it goes back to something I talked about on Sunday and you've talked about in your pod too, is it feels like there's some sort of shift this season.

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That we're moving into the second half of the decade, literally. And all the teams that mattered the first half of the decade, for the most part, are going by the wayside. And now we have this new... kind of new crop of teams that are just going to be in our lives. The question for me is whether Minnesota can stay there with the tax stuff, regardless of what happens in this series.

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You're always going to lean toward those. And if somebody is younger than me, maybe it's the 90s or 2000s. If they're older than me, maybe it's the 50s, 60s. But for me, it was like Norm and Stanley Roper and Vinnie Barbarino. There was all these.

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Are they going to be able to pay Nas Reed? Do they have the pockets to do that? How are they going to handle Randall if he opts out? Which I think there's a chance he might.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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This is too, this is too far for me. This is, this is why we're talking it out.

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They did something with him. He did the drive down the middle. where it seems like he's going to do a scoop shot, and then he just whips it out to the side. And I forget which OKC player was like, you're passing it to the corner, and just stood there and took the ball and the pass.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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When he passes up a two-foot layup for a kick out to the corner. All right, so you think more Gobert.

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Three-point luck has to change. Ant goes way more alpha-y. Shea doesn't get the same calls. McDaniels is able to actually stay in the court and be McDaniels. I think that's the recipe. I still don't know if it's enough.

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all these supporting characters who just would crush it every time they came on television and uh norm was the best and norm was so good that there's long youtube entrances of just all the times he would walk into the bar and have some joke off of sam's thing and then i thought it was notable that in the final episode which is still the most watched tv show i think of the last 40 years it's like 80 million people watched it

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That's what I had, too. I thought Minnesota would get two wins somehow.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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So quickly on Randall, I was looking up because I was bored once that game got out of hand. I was looking at Randall's weird career. You know, he's averaging for his career 19 and nine. And I looked up how many guys have played 700 plus games and averaged 19 and nine. What do you think the number is? Number of players in the history of the NBA. 19 and nine. 19 points, nine rebounds a game.

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Jokic, Bird, Giannis, Wilt, Elgin. Pretty good start. C-Web, Charles Barkley, Randall, Kareem, Carl Malone, Bob Lanier, Tim Duncan, Bob Pettit, Anthony Davis. I guess nine's a lot. Nine is a lot. Shaq, David Robinson, Hakeem, Walt Bellamy, Bob McAdoo, Patrick Ewing, Elvin Hayes, Spencer Haywood, and Moses Malone. That's like an incredible list.

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm President of Select States. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

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Multiple Hall of Famers, guys, multiple guys who are in the top 20 all time. And then if you go that same list where 3.5 assists a game, then that list goes down to 10. Are you making a Julius Randle Hall of Fame case right now? Is that what you're doing? I got to say, I did not realize I'd kind of given up on Randle as like a real asset.

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but I've been so impressed with him in the playoffs that it's making me reevaluate. Like, did I get something wrong? Did he get better? Was he this good the whole time? I have Knicks fans in my life Some of them are like, couldn't stand watching him. And then others are like, the guy was awesome for us. 24 and 10 every night, four assists, five assists. Guy's a warrior.

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And he's just, I don't know how it happened, but he's probably the most polarizing guy in the league, right? For the discourse, how far it's gone in different directions.

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They had the number two Lonzo Lonzo's in there. I'm about to give you that, that Lonzo was on there. Thomas Bryant, he's in the playoffs right now. KCP, Caruso, Jordan Clarkson, Channing Frye, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Brooke Lopez, Larry Nance, Gary Payton, and Zubats all had minutes on the 2018 Lakers.

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Now, some of them left during the season with trades, but yeah, the Caruso piece of it, First of all, that he was in the G League nine years ago. That picture of him and Mark Dagnall is unbelievable. Them in the G League together. It's just like an unbelievable photo.

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the last two minutes of the show are Norm and Sam, uh, closing down the bar for that night. And Norm has a poignant comment and he walks off and, um, there's a reason they did it that way. So when I think of the best, um, character guys and 30 minute shows and it's him, um, It's not a long list. It really isn't. Mr. Roper from Three's Company, I always loved.

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But the fact that it just took this long for him to be fully appreciated like he's being in these playoffs when it probably should have happened in 2020. all the stuff he was doing then. I still love that trade for both teams. I think Giddy for Caruso is one of the most fun trades of the last five, six years. Perfect trade for both teams.

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All the stuff Caruso is doing on OKC is wasted on a 41 and 41 Bulls team. This is where he should be. Good trade.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Well, that's the case. Ben Thompson's coming up later because I had to bring him on to yell at me about my Giannis for mobile trade. What was your take on that trade, by the way?

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Boogie Cousins was on some show today saying that he thought Dallas should trade the Cooper flag pick for Durant. Which I thought was bold because he said they're Dallas's windows right now.

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I'm just passing along information. I will respectfully disagree with DeMarcus Cousins. I saw the clip.

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I'm keeping flag. Yeah. Thanks anyway, everybody. Thank you. Thank you for all your offers. I'll be keeping, I'll be keeping flag, I guess. Yeah. Even Mobley. I just flags still 18 and he's going to come in. He's by the way. Yeah. You don't watch college basketball. Um, he's going to be your favorite player.

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Who did you have in Nick's Pacers out of curiosity? Nixon seven. Knicks in seven.

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People that just, every time they were in a scene, they owned it. And that's happening less or less now. I know everybody loves Raymond. I wasn't a religious watcher at that show, but Brad Garrett's character, I think, was always like that. It's a hard needle to thread where you just come in and you kill it every time. But I really thought he was just amazing. So anyway, I was sad today.

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No, I have either Pacers in six or Knicks in seven. I think it's one of those two outcomes.

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And don't stand next to wind horse. He's just try to be like, like, or defend wind horse. If anyone comes at him, like use some, use some karate. I mean, that still made me mad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Well, we'll see. We have some Knicks fans coming up after you. There's a Jalen Brunson moment lurking right now that could take on Joe Namath winning the third Super Bowl ever proportions if he could actually pull it off. He's eight wins away. Did you, did you ever see any version of this with the Knicks where they could actually like win the title?

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They're pretty massive underdogs in that Celtics series. Do you see it was like the fifth biggest upset of the 21st century in basketball? That's serious.

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There's been some pretty crazy Celtics losses during this Tatum-Brown era. You know, like Game 7, Cleveland, 2018, when they missed, I think, every three they took. Or it felt like it.

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I know, but it's just... I think it's still one of the four worst three-point shooting performances in the history of the playoffs.

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He died at 76. I want to... One of my favorite TV supporting actors and gave us one of the great characters we've ever had in a sitcom. Anyway, RIP to him. All right, coming up, we're going to talk to Zach Lowe and let's bring in our friends from Pearl Jam. It is 8.13 Pacific time. Zach Lowe stayed up late tonight.

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That was another one of the worst ones ever. The 2022, that Game 4, when Steph just levitated above the game. The game seven, 23 against Miami when Tatum gets hurt a minute into the game.

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Right. And then game one and two. And I don't even know, those games are just going to be lumped together in Celtics history. It's not like, oh, game two. It's like, just those two together will be discussed. Like, just how do you lose two games in a row at home to start a series down 20? But I did feel, and I said this to you in the next segment, I really did feel like the Knicks...

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Played the best I've seen them play all year in the second half of game four and then all game six like that. That was like the full potential of whatever this team is. Plus, they finally have a bench, even though it's two people.

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He was eye-openingly available for months during the season, Robinson. I'm kind of surprised nobody tried to scoop him up, but I think from an injury standpoint... I think he just had this thing to him. It's almost like where Rob Williams was after a while with the injuries. Is he going to play? How many games in a row am I getting?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Long way to go. Before we go, last question. Because I'm already in trade mode and draft mode. Because now we only have one game a day. There's more stuff to think about. Is there a team you feel like could be a holy shit trade team that we're not talking about enough yet? It's funny because... Is there a team you're on watch with out of the 30?

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So this is like right up my... Okay, so we'll tee that up for Thursday.

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You're going to laugh. It was Atlanta. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I had somebody ask me, because he's heard some of the Giannis content we've done on different pods. Oh, boy. And he was like, why isn't Atlanta in the Giannis combo? And I was like, what do you mean? And he's like, well, Jalen Johnson's awesome. He's on their team. He just got hurt.

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Everyone forgets that he didn't play the second half of the year. But as a centerpiece of a trade... That's a really good centerpiece. They don't have their next couple picks, but they have picks later, and it would be pretty easy for them to put something together and basically turn it into Trey and Giannis and keep Giannis in the East.

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Look, I wasn't saying it was going to happen, but the question was, why wouldn't Atlanta take a swing? They don't have their picks anyway.

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He's the front of it. Yeah, but there's way more in the trade than Jalen Johnson.

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But the next one's a swap with the Spurs. But they own 28, 29, 30, 31. Then they have an extra Bucks, New Orleans pick. And they also have Risa Shea if you wanted to get excited there.

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But I thought the same thing with Atlanta where it's, they had some upheaval. They're kind of a no man's land. Why not, if he's available? They've done weird shit before.

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I wish Miami had one more guy because there's a bam and all your picks for Giannis type of framework that I think would work, but it just puts Giannis in the same situation as in now.

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You know? I don't think... I mean, San Antonio has a ton of picks. but I don't think I said this to Ben later. I'm sorry. I'm stepping on a segment that's coming later, but I just don't, if I'm Giannis, I'm not getting traded unless I'm guaranteed. I'm going to be one of the best four teams, which is why going back to Cleveland, that's why the mobile thing made sense to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So it's like, if he gets traded there, mobile is the guy coming back. I now know I'm the favorite in the East and I'm okay. Approving that trade at that point, but I guess we'll see. All right. Thursday, you're talking, uh, coming off the next game that you're going to go to, uh, And then doing some, uh, some of this, some of this stuff, some of this, who's going to do some crazy stuff. Let's go.

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Maybe some end of the year Greenwich high school, uh, varsity sports wrap up. Oh God. Swim team rap.

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All right. So listen, I've talked a lot about the Knicks on this podcast really since I've had in 2007. And I brought in a bunch of people on. Two of them are here today. But I just wanted to say, you know, Sean Fantasy, Ariel Hawane, a lot of times when I brought you in, it's usually it's out of a moment of sadness or like there's faint hope, but it's not really going to work out the right way.

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I was kind of deep down hoping we were going to get a really fun Timberwolves-OKC game one. And then for about a quarter and a half, it felt like we were heading that way. And then OKC does the thing that they do from time to time, where their defense just shifts. It's shapeshifters. they just turn it up a different way. And then all of a sudden the game's over and you're like, what happened?

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But it's it's usually somebody one of you being sad. And this is a very happy time for the Knicks. Eastern Conference Finals starts tomorrow. You've beaten the defending champion, Boston Celtics. And I thought it was only fair to invite you both on. Sean's got like a golf tan sunburn thing going. You've just like lost your mind. Mission Impossible is coming out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ariel looks at the happiest I've ever seen him. This is so I don't know, Sean, you go first.

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Sean, you want the feeling to go away? Are you ready to play some basketball?

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How is this an 18 point game? It was just, they were just up by two a second ago and that was it. So I don't know. You take anything away from this or is it just typical game one?

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Well, I know, Sean, you've come on sometimes and you've just laid some bombs and laid some wood on some rivals because you turned into a sports fan, Sean. I hate Carl Anthony Towns after that series and it's going to be tough for me to refer him for a while. No rational reason for it.

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It's just he started playing well in game six and started puffing his chest out a little bit and the wheels had come off not just the Celtics series but the season and probably the era and he became the target. But that... Ariel, where did you land on Townes? Are you still trying to figure him out? What UFC fighter is he?

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Come on, but he must drive you crazy because he would drive me crazy if he was the center on my team. I would go nuts.

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I mean, I will say Sean never gave up on Mitch Rob. Good. You were, you were waiting for those 15 minutes in the playoffs. That was the weirdest thing about the series was by the end of the series, all of a sudden the Knicks had the seven man rotation that makes sense as like a four round playoff team, which I was not expecting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We should have been. We were minus 800 favorites. Why wouldn't we have been cocky? You guys barely beat the Pistons. You wrote about this. We were up 3-1 and beat them in six. Every fourth quarter was either or.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We lost the series in the first two games. And the fourth quarter, you played in game four, which was incredible basketball. We would have been down 3-1 in the series with Porzingis, who's like zombie Porzingis. Hauser, the sprained ankle. Jalen Brown, we find out after he had this torn meniscus that they were kind enough never to tell us about for two months.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think we could have won three in a row, looking back. I think it would have been a tall task. You would have had one game where you at least played one awesome half. And I just don't think they would have won three straight with the team they had. Now, before in March, I wouldn't have said that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Game four was hard. Tatum played one of the best games of his life. And we were down nine when he got hurt. Can I work up some Indiana animosity for you guys? Oh, please.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I know Halliburton. You're already there. It sounds like 10 out of 10. Hatred. Annoying.

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Um, Reggie Miller doing the announcing annoying. That means you have to see the, the eight, nine seconds and the threes and the Spike Lee trash talk. We're going to be force fed that not looking forward to that. Aaron, Aaron Neesmith as a, as a quote unquote Brunson stopper, just following them around every year and doing agitator stuff. Like, um, where do you stand on him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know of Campaign. I'm going to be counting on that one. Plus, you have more guys to hate, Sean. You have TJ McConnell. Hate him. I'm sure you'll work a healthy amount of animosity toward him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then Matherin, who gets into it. He's like those Detroit guys. He'll get into it two, three times in a series. He'll get some double techs. He's fun to root against. Rick Carlisle makes some annoying faces. I feel like the animosity is going to be... Plus all the... All the old 90s videos. It just feels like this will be a really good old school. A lot of hate on both sides.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Indiana has a slightly better team, but you have the Brunson piece. And that's why I think this is the line has shifted. So now it's like Pacers minus or Pacers plus 124. Knicks are favored. but you're the healthiest you've been all year. And I said this to Rosillo on Sunday. I think second half of game four and game six were the best I've seen those five guys play together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you really haven't had all five together for long stretches. So that would be the case combined with the energy in those Knicks games. It's easy to hit those threes when you're playing Milwaukee without Dame, when you're playing a Cleveland when everyone's terrified because they feel like the series is sliding.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's a little different to do the pull up 25 footers in MSG when like Chalamet is stink eyeing you. You know, all the celebs. Sean, was there a celeb that you were like, come on, you haven't been to a game in 25 years. How are you dining on this right now? Anyone you want to call out or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ariel, where are you staying on Tibbs these days? And what was your darkest moment with him the last couple of years?

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Yeah, it felt like this was the game about 30, 40 minutes in. It's like, all right, they're going to get this one if they're going to get a game, right? Everything's going well. Rando's playing out of his ass. And OKC looked nervous. And OKC looked a little tired from maybe that seven gamer. And it was interesting when Ken Rich Williams came in. Love it. Kenny Hustle, baby. Unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Coming up, a ton of basketball, a whiff of UFC, a whiff of Giannis trades. Action Pack Pod next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchables for you on Monday night. We did Close Encounters of the Third Kind as part of Big Ass 70s Week. It couldn't have gone better. I had a great time. You can watch it on the Ringer Moves YouTube channel.

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Gandolfini would have played his starters too much, I feel like. Like, he played Paulie and Christopher a lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, that's the thing. What happens is you just spend a lot of money over the next 72 hours. There's t-shirts and hats you need. I can't wait. There's mugs. And they keep coming and the hats keep changing. And then the DVDs come out. So you got to get those. It never ends. But you had... I mean, Sean's kid is young. You have kids now that are actually at the right age to...

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experience to just basically go completely apeshit if they actually kept going.

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Like, would he have been the fifth best Nugget? Where do you have him ranked on Nuggets? Could he have played 35 minutes a game for the Nuggets?

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My buddy Sully's kids who were like early 2000s kids. And that was kind of how they saw sports because they didn't have any of the DNA because like when they were little, Brady won the first Super Bowl and then the red side. And they just kind of assumed that's how it was. And they're surrounded by all these tortured older people who are just waiting for the other shoe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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The thing with Sean, I've known Sean since 2012. This is easily the best sports run he's been on. But Soto, you got rid of Aaron Rodgers, your least favorite New York athlete ever. And then the Knicks run. This is kind of weirdly the peak.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So when he did that, I'm like, is this... A tactical move or did he extend the bench today because he was worried his team was a little worn out or what's going on? And did he lose faith in Caruso all of a sudden? And then Caruso came in and played one of the great stretches he's had in the playoffs. So that answered that question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Yeah, you know, something you said, Ariel, was about the Knicks gear being everywhere. That was one of my favorite things about living in Boston when that would happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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When there was some big series or some big game coming up and just the city would just assume the identity of the franchise, which is really hard to do in New York, but was always why you knew Brooklyn was never going to really make it as the second alternative franchise. NBA team. Cause the case was as soon as the Knicks get their shit together, this is how it's going to play out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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And it feels like it's played out even more than that. Right? Like I gotta say, like the outpouring has been just watching it from 3000 miles away, even feels bigger than I expected. And I had high expectations.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I didn't like the wind horse stuff. I didn't like it at all. Hated that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's going to be, I think it's already one of the harder tickets in the history of basketball. And then there's the combo of Dolan just hoarding all the tickets and not giving any to the league. And so it's just like, hey, I'm taking care of my people. Steve Schrippa has been coming here the whole time. He's going to stay in his seat. Like, hey, he's weirdly loyal in a way that I love.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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What was the darkest moment for you, Ariel? Sean said it was when they signed Randall. It was rock bottom for him. What was rock bottom for you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A friend of mine, pretty connected, had good seats for one of the games, game four, game six. And sitting next to him was one of the, it was like Starks, one of those guys. I was like, oh my God. And then he just happened to be in the area where like six of them were. And it was like his young adulthood came to life. And he was just like almost having a seizure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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It is crazy how many, to me, like, look, I'm not a Knicks fan. I'm obviously a giant basketball fan. when we start moving into the Marbury era, that gets a little where it's like, Hey, look, there's Marbury. It's like nothing good happened with Marbury the entire time he was with the Knicks. Like there's some of those, but I think he's a son of New York though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Yeah. I just think the Celtics version of when we bring the greats back is a little, you usually have to have had one good thing happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Before we go, since I have both of you here, there's a UFC movie coming out with The Rock. that The Rock is allegedly a real Oscars contender for. So, and Sean follows this stuff obsessively. And then this is Ariel's domain. Ariel, what have you heard? Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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So the things I was worried about heading into this game, what are we getting from Mike Conley, who's old? Going against this gauntlet. You called on Sunday's pod or Monday's pod. You said you thought OKC's defense is now going way up there. I want to see it for four rounds because I I'm still licking my wounds from jumping the gun with Minnesota last year when they look good in round two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What's funny is they've been cranking out boxing movies pretty consistently for a hundred years. And just when you think like they've made enough boxing movies, then another one comes out, another one comes out. I thought the one about the female boxer, Carissa Shields, I thought that was actually good. The fire inside, yeah. But you would have thought...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You would have thought there would be more MMA and there just hasn't. All right. So Sean, we did, you've talked about this on your pod a bunch. We did a video on ringer movies about, um, about, is it ever going to happen for the rock? Why is, is, is the movie star thing as the ship sailed? And then you see this trail and it's like, okay, maybe we're back in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The problem is with UFC and MMA in general, it's such a passionate, loud audience. But then I always wonder like how big is the actual audience, right? Like I know Netflix is thinking about, you know, it's been reported. Do they want to get in and grab some pay-per-views? Like I wonder if Netflix got some pay-per-views, Ariel. and it's just going to all these different countries.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And all of a sudden I was comparing them to the 89 Pistons. So I'm just I have the training wheels on for all defense takes in these playoffs. But I, you know, the bones are there. I think what makes them special is, is the different looks and how they can do the big and small, how they can put like a, we're just going to try to get a lot of steals lineup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Does that make MMA bigger or did we hit the ceiling already? Like, is there new people to find? Because I think this ties into the movie. How much audience is left that's out there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Yeah, because you think, Sean, with the MMA audience that's kind of dormant, for a movie to really hit for the rock, you've got to hit different countries. He hits different countries anyway, and if that audience is there. So this could be the rare combo of an awards contender that actually makes real money that's not a franchise. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My advice to him would be don't overpromote it. don't feel like you need to be all over the place with it. Like be a little discreet. Cause I don't feel like the over promotion stuff works with the awards. And this is like his one chance, but I hope, I hope we get more MMA stuff just in general. I'm always amazed that that's not a lane for movies right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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They, they have looks like a football team that I don't really remember seeing. I guess the, the, you know, you go back to the 89 Pistons and teams of that ilk that could kind of change their look depending on what you had. They're on pace. But what they did today is they do it over and over again. They just go on these runs and they're defense fueled, which is so unusual in the league, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Are we weighing a Belichick's girlfriend now? What other hits do you want to take here?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We won the title last year. I'm in a five-year grace period. All right, guys. Good luck. against the Pacers in round three. I'm happy for both of you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I think it's either Pacers in six or Knicks in seven. I don't think the Pacers can win a game seven against a healthy Knicks team with the way the arena will be. But we'll see. My fear for you guys... There's a couple health guys I do not trust on your team who have stayed reasonably healthy so far.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Townsend, Ananobi, not to mention Mitchell Robinson, who every game you get out of him feels like a miracle. So I just, you know, these playoff games are hard. They're intense. I feel like the Pacers are probably a little more durable when this thing gets really physical than maybe the Knicks are. But who knows? You might have the team of destiny thing. And the Brunson thing is unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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when he rooting against that guy in a playoff series in the fourth quarters, I just felt like he was going to score on us. And we had like, we had holiday on him. We were throwing Tatum and Brown on him. And I just felt like he was going to get when he shook holiday on that, uh, that one shot. I can't remember if it was game one or game two coming off the inbounds with like 10 seconds left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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94 feet. The horror. There is going to be some 94 feet. They're going to try to put some miles on your guy. They're going to try to wear him down. I'm cool with it. Good luck. Thanks for coming on. I'm glad you were finally able to come on under happy circumstances. It was a pleasure to see both.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The runs that we usually have in the league are threes or somebody getting hot. This team can have runs based on steals and pressure and picking up guys at half court. That one sequence, I know you know what I'm about to say. When Edwards was bringing the ball up, and Caruso kind of jumped on him. And then he almost lost.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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All right. He's been on this podcast many times. You know him from the Stratechery newsletter, one of the pioneers. He's also a giant Bucks fan. His name is Ben Thompson. And if I'm going to make fake Giannis trades, really?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Can I explain the thought process behind it? And then you can tell me how offended you should be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Well, first of all, I don't think you should trade Giannis, which I said in the pod. I think you should keep Giannis because especially with the way the East is going. Oh, it's so bad. It's so bad. It's embarrassing. But if you're going to trade him, you can't do the Kevin Durant, get a bunch of picks back and go for the future because you don't have any of your own picks. That makes no sense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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So I need to get a good player back. And I'm shopping on that Evan Moby level, looking at 80 cents in the dollar.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He almost fell over for a backcourt just because of the pressure and then got it back and then just like launched a terrible three. Nobody else is doing that in the league. And I think that's what makes them special is they just throw things defensively. They're like, I've not seen that anywhere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Giannis being underrated, that's just Bucs bullshit. He's second, third, fourth, or first in the MVP voting every single year. It's not like he falls to nine. He's always in the top three or top four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Wait a second. So if you're keeping Giannis versus trading, if you're trading him, you have to trade him to a place that has a chance to win the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that's a conundrum though. Portland doesn't want Giannis because they're on their own timeline and he's not going to want to go to New Orleans. So you're not getting those picks back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Giannis, though, I'm staying in Milwaukee over going to Philly and rolling the dice with Embiid. Why am I doing that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, that's the thing. It's New York and Indiana. The Celtics are probably out of the mix. Your team's in there. Detroit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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You can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, on FanDuel, on FanDuel Sportsbook, I am going to be doing another episode of tail or fade, which I have won the last two weeks in a row. We're going to be doing Carl Anthony towns under 24 and a half points. Uh, and you get a little 50% profit boost on that, all kinds of good stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you're saying the window, eight-year window, it's now closed, blow it up, rebuild around Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, if you go through the contenders, Oklahoma City, if they lose one of the next two rounds, I guess would be a possibility. But if I'm Oklahoma City and I'm taking the giant money Giannis is making combined with all the other money they're going to have to shell out,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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You're just whipping the takes out tonight. Sam Presti doesn't really want to win. That's a take. I would say he wants to win. He's trying to build a 10-year sustainable project.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I mean, that's how I feel about the Celtics from 2016 and now. It's a nine-year run. They won one title, but at least we had the one title. You had the Giannis thing. Everyone is like, oh my God, Giannis, how is he in this situation? Well, you made two massive trades where you gave up a shitload of assets and it paid off with the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Then it didn't pay off with Dame, but that's how you get in this situation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you talked about, so if you go through the contenders, Knicks, I mean, I don't see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, what if the Knicks fell short in one of the next two rounds and then there's some sort of towns with bridges for Giannis? The problem is they don't have any picks to throw in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Unless they win the title, then it's not a mistake. Exactly. No, that's the thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, because 30 teams, a lot of talent. It's way harder to keep a team together like we're seeing now with the Celtics and some other ones. I always compare the guys. In the era first, you got to start there with who are you going against and how much did you stand out? Both of those guys qualify. I think both of them are in that Shaq, Moses, Hakeem kind of area.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Somewhere in that 11 to 16 range. And I think what Jokic has done year after year offensively might give him a little bit of a trump card.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, wait. So let's go back to the exercise of going through all the contenders. Because you mentioned Houston. I want to come back to them. Knicks are out. Lakers are out. Denver's out. Indiana, I just can't imagine the right trade for that. You start going down the list. Minnesota.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I noticed it while not really having a dog in the race. Sometimes guys really have trouble figuring out when to slide in and out. I think that's what's been so impressive over the years with Jalen Brown is he feels like it's Tatum's team, but he has a sense of when to come and go depending on the moment. Well, at least when we had those guys together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the only other team, there was a Memphis one too for, I'm ignoring you. There was a Memphis, like a Jaron Jackson one. But the reason I thought of the Mobley was because you get a guy under contract for five years. He's one of the 15 or 16 best guys in the league and still has some room to go. I think he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When I do ringer 100, I have him in... I forget what I had him in the last one, but... You know, he just won defensive player of the year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's not going to be Ahmed Thompson either. I hate to break it to you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you're saying number two, Devin Vassell to make the contracts work. One other contract and then more picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then you're basically like, I don't care about our own picks. Yeah. Those are sunk costs. Let's just try to figure this out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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By the way, I looked at my ringer hundred that I turned in for the last time we did it, which is a couple of weeks ago. I had Moby 13th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the real move is to keep Giannis and take it into the season, say he's staying, see how it goes, and then he'll probably have just as much, if not more value from December to February, I would think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but I'm not doing that trade if I'm Houston if I have to also give up Thompson because I need him to be one of my best three guys to actually try to win the title if I'm actually trading for Giannis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Thompson was their best player in the playoffs, though. Dan Vliet, Dylan Brooks, like that. I don't think that's it. You need Thompson. You need all the stuff he does.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Yeah. No, so you're thinking, so you would do Thompson, I think the Van Vliet contract probably has to be in it to make the honest thing work.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Stick him in the corner and just tell him to jack up threes if they happen to pass him the ball. And that's kind of what he does.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I know, but see, the problem is, the reason I like the Cleveland trade for him... was because, all right, if I'm leaving Milwaukee, I have all these ties here. I've been here since 2013. I want to go to a place where I'm now the favorite to win the title. That's not the case if he goes to Houston or San Antonio.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you flip him in Mobley, he is now the favorite to come out of the East, like unquestionably with the team they already have. And that's what I thought was the appealing piece.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I think you have to look at it from the Giannis perspective because you're throwing him a solid by trading him because he's your guy. And if you want to put him in a good situation in the Bucs defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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What if he calls? He's like, I will go to these three spots. And Houston's not one of them. Then it gets a little... I personally don't think going to San Antonio guarantees him anything. I don't know if Wimbanyama... Do we even know he's going to be playing 60 games a year with his... His body makes me nervous. He's already gone down once.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Like, like you're in the West. I'm in the West instead of the East. If I'm in, if I'm on Cleveland, I'm cruising. I have to worry about the Knicks and the Celtics two years from now. And, trade?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Do you think Cleveland, what if Milwaukee came back and said, we'll do it if it's Mobley and Garland. So what we can have the same playoff performance Cleveland has had. And we'll dump, we'll dump, we'll give you honest and dump a contract on you. And you can have the honest and Mitchell. Then I don't think that makes sense. If I'm Cleveland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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You leave out the part that he has a ring already. It's not like he has to go chase it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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So when I voted for him for third for MVP, should I put little stars next to it to show how much I cared? Or what did you want from me? Put a little chocolate on it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I don't want to... Tatum was better the first 55, 60 games of the year. And then Giannis came on like a freight train.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I will say one thing. Can I do one Giannis critique? He does get a free pass for when his teammates don't play well when they're next to him. It's always their fault. It's a little bit of LeBron. LeBron-ish.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Grayson Allen was really good on Phoenix the year he left Milwaukee. I don't know. It's just, we kids clubbed with Giannis a little bit. Giannis fucked up on the Halliburton drives in that game that they blew. Like, Halliburton went by three times in a row. I thought he was this octopus on defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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All right. So, so we go, you're, you're in favor of keeping Giannis or Godfather offer from St. Antonio Houston. Cause the one other thing we didn't mention when Davis went to the Lakers, uh, The Lakers really wanted Davis because of LeBron and they had this window and they were going to do whatever it took. Ishpia, when he really wanted Durant, he's like, fine, I'll throw in Cam Johnson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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I'll do anything it takes. I don't know who the I'll do anything it takes to get Giannis team is yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Ben Thompson. You can follow or subscribe to the Stratechery newsletter, which has been an essential piece of... Does not have any NBA talk, which is probably best for everyone. No, it's good. Good to see you. Thanks for getting up early for us. Talk to you later. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Fantasy and Ariel and Zach and Ben and Gahal and Eduardo for producing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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You can watch these as video podcasts on Spotify. If you did not know that, you can check out the Bill Simmons YouTube channel for all the clips and videos from this and new rewatchables episode, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. You can check that out as well because that's on the Ring of Moves YouTube channel or on the Spotify as a video podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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So I'm going to be back on Thursday. We'll have lots to discuss, including a surprise guest. So stay tuned. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.

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The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Well, if you're Minnesota, the one thing you're going to come out of the game is we have to get a better whistle on these SGA calls.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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Look, I tweeted this in real time, and I never tweet during games usually. But I just thought Shea, and I don't care. I didn't bet on the game. I didn't really care who won. I just hope we have a long, fun series. But I feel like Shea is getting this whistle that nobody else in the playoffs is getting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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where there's little touch fouls or these bumps where you're not even sure who initiated the bumps and he's just getting it. And I think with Minnesota, you can see this. You saw it in the Lakers series. You saw it in the last series. McDaniels can just have four or five fouls immediately and you don't even know what happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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So go check out Fando sports book on Wednesday, coming up on this podcast, going to talk to Zach Lowe about game one. Okay. See Minnesota at the top. Going to talk to Aro Hawani and Sean Fennessy, two long-suffering Knicks fans who always come on this podcast to talk about the Knicks when things are going bad. So I thought it was only fair to bring them on when things are going good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And when he has fouls, I think Minnesota is a different team because he's their swing guy. Every team has a swing guy. I feel like he's their swing guy. And once you put foul trouble on him and he's not as aggressive, then it comes down to like his aunt or, you know, are the threes going to go in or is aunt going to go nuts? The bench guys were also really bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And there's officially a Nas Reid storyline that's developed where he's been bad for three weeks now. where he hasn't looked like this guy, like when they, when they really got hot, when Randall was out, I think it was like February range. And he was like 20 to 25 at night and, you know, seven, eight rebounds a game. It was like really impactful.

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I don't think he's figured out how to impact the team. Now that Randall is looking like Randall. And, uh, today he was one for 11. Obviously it's about as bad as it's going to get, but you do that. Alexander Walker's three for 11 and, and Dante was three for 14. Um, They're not really built to survive three shit bench games, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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And you said that about even Missoula is like, I don't know. That's a lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Invincible OKC, Knicks Nirvana, and Acceptable Giannis Trades With Zach Lowe, Ariel Helwani, Sean Fennessey, and Ben Thompson

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He doesn't have cable right now. He has no cable streaming right now.

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

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And we're going to do it again after we hear from our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're recording this on a Tuesday. Always fun to have this guy. I would do the future of everything concept, but he's on a little book tour. He's dressed up. Never seen him in a tie before. I'm just one of many stops, but I booked it super early.

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So why'd you name the book Abundance? I know the reason, but tell the audience.

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Can I ask a super dorky writing question about what it's like to write a book with somebody else? Especially if you don't live in the same place or do you live in the same place?

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So it was somebody writing one chapter and somebody else is writing the next one and then you're sending the drafts and then somebody spruces it up, sends it. Like, how did you do it?

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Is this an audio book on Spotify?

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Free audio book ad for Spotify. We're going to take a break, come back and do the future of everything. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. And bundling home and auto, it's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.

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Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right, future of everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is a gimmick we try to do every six months. Little snapshot of where we are. So this is the first time we've done it in 2025. And we usually do politics, sports, tech, culture. Might replace health for politics, depending on what's going on. But you did your politics version. Mine was tied into it too. With people asking what happens to the Democratic Party, where does it go?

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I was thinking what happened is a better question. And thinking about it almost like you would think about sports. You think like JFK dies in 1963. By the way, the file is allegedly getting released as we're taping this.

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I'm never going to believe it until it actually happens. But how many Democratic candidates since JFK was assassinated, do you feel like actually inspired people and started some sort of wave movement?

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I was in college. I can vouch for it. He, it was a, it was a, it was a movement. We were in it. We liked him. And it worked.

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So that's so for the right now, other people could say, no, no, Jimmy Carter in 76. That was more of a Gerald Ford. Nobody wanted to vote for him again. Ted Kennedy was supposed to be the guy and then it wasn't going to happen. And Carter, by the way, I love Carter. Carter was probably my favorite president, but I don't think it was a Carter movement by any means.

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I'm pumped because future of everything is clearly one of the nine most important things you're doing today. Derek Thompson, host of Plain English. New co-author of a book called Abundance with Ezra Klein that came out this week, today. And I'm just going to say it. I feel like you lucked out that this didn't come out last year. Timing seems perfect.

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It's just, I just think after the fact, I think you look back at Carter. I'm like, Oh yeah. Like the Malay speech. I I've talked about this before. I just, I, he just probably shouldn't have been president, but I liked how he stayed authentic to himself to the bitter end, even to the point that he was going to lose in 1980.

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Um, Sanders had a little momentum too, but you know, it was definitely niche momentum. Um, you can't say Biden, uh, Biden was more like the anecdote. This is the only way this side can beat this side. So, all right, we got to go this. But I guess the point I'm trying to make is two people in 62 years. is not a good batting average.

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So when people say, well, all we need is we need to find somebody who can come in and whatever. It's like the batting average says you're probably not. That's probably not going to happen. So what's plan B? And I wonder when we start talking about that, because even I saw Josh Shapiro was on Bill Marshall last week. And I think he's, you know, he presents very well.

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He's very well liked in Pennsylvania and checks a lot of boxes. And maybe he could be the third guy. It's just interesting to me that the batting average is so bad. 63 years is a long time, 62 years. And it's going to be 65 since JFK when we do the 2028 election. And you've had two guys that have inspired a party. So maybe that says more about the party.

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Well, I think about when I was growing up as a kid and the Kennedys still had this outsized kind of hold over everything, right? And to the point that Ted, people are always keeping their fingers crossed for him. And he finally ran in 1980. But this was somebody who, you know, accidentally killed somebody in Chappaquiddick.

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and swam to safety and did a reporter for eight hours and somehow still tried to run for president. And then, you know, was in Massachusetts forever. Um, but people love the Kennedy's so much. They were like, yeah, well, it was a rough night. They, you know, they're like overlooking whatever. And then after he went away, just think about like 84 Mondale Dukakis, like, Oh, just kind of way.

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And then Clinton shows up and he felt like just of the era, he felt like, MTV, like he was on MTV and it made sense. You know, he just, he made sense to like all the people I was in college with. I was like, ah, I could see that guy. Um, and then Obama had the same kind of moment. So we're headed toward, if you're thinking like generation, generation, this generation now, who's it going to be?

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But I think you're right. It's almost has to be somebody who's outside the box from whatever this weird prototype that they've created. He's careful, non-authentic. I thought this was the thing that killed Kamala. Now, granted, Kamala was in a terrible situation. You have 100 days to run for president. Like in retrospect, that was crazy.

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The whole point of running for president is to criticize the guy who has the job and she couldn't do it. But, you know, I still felt like, like, I still think she should have gone on the Rogan pod. I think that would have helped her. But she was, they were so worried about you know, putting out like what she ended up doing was SNL with Maya Rudolph. And it's like, cool.

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That's like the safest, easiest, most predictable thing you could have done. Um, whoever the next person is, I think has to have some sort of authenticity piece that's been missing for a long time.

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And I do think that's why Sanders resonated even a little, because whether you agree with him or not, he really believed what he was saying. Like he really gave a shit about it and it really stuck with people.

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Mark Cuban can't run now because they just bring the Luka Doncic trade up over and over again. He is going to have to own that answer. And then they trade their best player. Why'd you sell the team? Why didn't you put in something that could have traded him? It'd be a tough one.

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No, because if it had been the Lakers, we're doing well.

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Um, the, the real answer is we're not going to know for two more years, because if you look at the sea change elections, it's always somebody that came out of nowhere, 15 to 18 months before the thing. So, cause I always hear like the, you see the pieces or people talking about, here's a list of seven people. It's like, we don't know who the person is yet. The person is yet to materialize.

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, the future of everything with Derek Thompson next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Anyway, uh, we're going to move to sports, your future of everything for sports. The thing you're fascinated in is what?

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Did you hear the thing Goldsberry and I did about the schedule last week? No, tell me. We did basically about how the NBA, the schedule is wrong and they need to move it six weeks so that it peaks in June and July, all the way through July. and get away from football as much as they can. If they could shorten it even better.

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I do wonder if we're heading, because I think what the success MLB had when Theo Epstein came in and changed some of the things they were doing and added the pitch clock and all things that would have seemed crazy 10 years ago, and they really worked, I think has been pretty eye-opening. I thought you were going with the future stuff, what was going to be after math.

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which I think is going to be AI. And I don't think a lot of people have talked about it yet. And it's not AI the way you think. It's for drafting and scouting. I think there's going to be all these AI programs that captures demeanor, facial expressions, the ways your eyes are, how you stand.

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That's awesome. Yeah, it's beyond how do we fix this, which is always a fun column to write our podcast to do. After the election and then all the dialogue about where do we go? I don't even know. It's basically like, we have to fix this, but nobody knows how to fix it.

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whether just these crazy things that would be like, this guy is more of an alpha because our AI program followed him and tracked him as he walked around a basketball court. It's going to be, I think we're headed toward weird fucking minority report shit like that.

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Right, they're in March Madness watching people on the bench. And it's like, that guy's not paying attention to his coach. The AI program doesn't like that. I genuinely think we're moving that way. And I don't think the teams, it was just like what happened with math in the 2000s. The teams all had the analytics and they weren't sharing them. And there was a six, seven year stretch.

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They knew how people were doing on corner threes. They knew how the plus minus, they had all that shit. They just weren't sharing it to us. I think AI is the next thing because AI is guys, you were, I think you came on maybe two years ago when we really started. And even then you came on again six months later and it had already shifted. I just think the profiling of AI is going to be a big thing.

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That's not my sports thing though.

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But it's going to be a five-year run where some people have it, some don't. Okay. And they'll get the advantage. It's like in baseball when they cared about defensive metrics for like five years and only a few teams cared, and then it evened out and everybody cared.

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Not just body language doctoring. I should have mentioned this too. Running style. Trying to guess like how somebody's frame is, how they move, whether it's football, basketball, baseball. Do they move in a way that could be susceptible to injury later? And then the AI program has all this stuff from like, there's Mookie Betts. He never gets hurt. Why does he get hurt?

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What is different about his body than like Giancarlo Stanton? I think we're going to have all this stuff and I think they're working on it now. That is not my sports thing though. I agree with you. Math, math, we're moving towards something new and maybe it's a hybrid of 19 things.

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So, and I don't even know if I'm right on this a hundred percent, but I feel like I'm 90% and maybe I'm five years early, but I've been thinking about the NBA. I'm going to call it a labor glut just because you like when you like phrases like memorable phrases. The NBA is getting older. in a way that is having an interesting effect now on rosters and talent and how young talent can break through.

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And meanwhile, you guys have been working on, I mean, you have some solutions, but you're more trying to identify the problems and the problem areas and then possible solutions for those, right? That was the original intent? Yeah.

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The league is just really deep. And I've talked about this a bunch, but I actually went and I looked at it trying to figure out, are we deeper and are older guys staying longer? And could this actually like fuck up the league a little bit? Like we're too deep. One of the reasons I was thinking about it is there's like this really good six man of the year race this year.

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usually there's like two six men. I'm like, ah, Jamal Crawford. Like, ah, Lou Williams. This year, there are like these game-changing six men all over the place, right? You have like Nas Reed. You have Ty Jerome. You have Peyton Pritchard. You have Beasley on the Pistons. Every team kind of has somebody awesome. And then if you look at the bench, there would be these games where

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Like Denver yesterday, two guys, Jokic and Murray didn't play. They beat the Warriors anyway. These other guys stepped up. They have Russell Westbrook, who's just kind of, all right, Russell, just have an old school, crazy triple-double where you have seven turnovers. Like, sure. So I went back and I looked up how many guys who have been in the league 11 plus years are still relevant.

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And the number was 50.

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This is 11 years or more. Now, LeBron is obviously the most. He's 22. CP3 is 20. KD, Horford, and Conley. KD's not on a playoff team. The other two guys are. They're in their 18th year. Russ, Brooke Lopez, Batum, DeAndre, 17th year. Curry, Harden, DeRozan, Drew, 16th year. And you go on down. And it's just a shitload of guys. The Kawhi draft.

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That draft had Kyrie, Kawhi, Vucevic, Butler, Valanciunas, Klay Thompson, and Tobias Harris all still playing. And I was thinking about when I was a kid, and it's funny because we just did this episode on Celtic City. John Havlicek retired and he played 16 years. He played from 1962-63 season to 78. It was like, oh my God, Hondo played 16 years. This is just where we're going now with the league.

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And you think like guys like, you know, that like Giannis is a year 11 or he's a year 12 guy. Jokic is in his 11th year. Here's who's in their 11th year. Aaron Gordon, Embiid, Wiggins, Marcus Smart, Randall, Levine, Nurkic, Capella, Dinwiddie, Grant, Clarkson, Bogdanovich. So my question is, they actually really need to expand.

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Because if you have this older class of player that you just didn't really have before. So then I was like, well, they must've had it before. So we went back to 2014 top 26 guys in total minutes for the 2014 season, all 29 and under top 50 PR guys that year, only eight guys who were over 30. In the top 50 minutes per game that year, only three guys were 30 and over. Zach Randolph, 39th.

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Kyle Korver, 42nd. David Lee, 50th. Those are the only guys 30 and over. This year, we have top 50 minutes per game, 13 guys, 29 and over. Top 50 PER, 13 guys, 30 and over. So it's not that many, but it's where the league's going. And we're just headed toward this league now where you can have a 16, 17 year career and it's not crazy. So does this mean we could have 40 teams?

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Where does this go for the workforce?

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Quinn Grimes is a great example. Yeah, because I was thinking... Well, like I used to do the trade value column when I wrote for ESPN and it was always, you know, I had trouble getting past 30. I tried to get a 40 or, you know, and the 30 to 40 guys, I was like, ah. And then when I did the exercise this year, I'd like easily got to 75 and had a bunch of honorable mentions.

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But you think about how the league works. Like you mentioned Grimes, who was buried on Dallas. goes to Philly, some guys get hurt, and now all of a sudden he's turning himself into a $50 million guy. Or you look at Austin Reeves on the Lakers, where LeBron goes out of the lineup for a couple games, and all of a sudden he's averaging 30.

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The Celtics have Pritchard, who if a couple guys get hurt, he could just come in and be awesome. And it just seems... the deepest it's ever been. And there's also the LeBron piece of it too, whether he's an outlier or not, because the stuff, you know, he's breaking every record.

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Is this just like a Brady situation where you almost have to put them over here because he was so devoted to the conditioning and everything else just to get his body ready. That's all he cared about for 365 days a year. Some rules maybe went toward his way a little bit like it did with Brady. And you can't replicate that? Or is that the sign of where we might be going?

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Because Durant's in year 18 and people are going to try to trade for him this summer. But then the flip side would be Paul George, who's in 2011 draft, whose body is now breaking down, which is a little more traditional of what we're used to. So I mean, it's just one of those things like if Giannis is a free agent in a year, Giannis was in the 2013 draft. He's got some miles on him.

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Are we in the new NBA or the old one? What is the aging process? I think it's going to be a big topic over the next five years.

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Embiid Odin, I think, is a better example. Like big, tall dudes. Well, there's that. But then there's the other piece about like, let's say I'm thinking about signing somebody who's been in the league eight years. And I take all the video of when they were in college and the first two years of their league and how they moved and how they jumped.

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And then I'm able to take the video of them last season and have the AI program look at it and be like, what do you see? If you looked at Embiid in Kansas versus Embiid at the Olympics, it's no contest. It looks like two different people. And AI would, so maybe that's the way I could go. Anyway, I think we're headed toward interesting times with longevity.

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The last time I felt this way was the end of 2000s because I remember Gladwell and I writing a lot about like, where's this going? And then we saw where it went. Now I feel like we're moving to this new version of something.

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Well, because it was a lot of the stuff Nash and some other people were doing that decade. I remember we wrote one piece about it. It just seemed like there were real factors in place to extend careers. The dieting, the training, the equipment, the ability to study yourself on video. There are all these little things that were just going to help you grow and the guys were starting to use it.

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And I think JJ's done a great job as the Lakers coach this year. And he's kind of a new version of a coach that I think you kind of need to have with the way the league goes, where he's like really analytics, he's really video, and he's like a workaholic. And it's this new version of the kind of guys that have succeeded in the past.

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But you watch the Lakers, they're like impeccably prepared for these games.

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There's probably some biometric stuff in there too that I think some of the better teams are doing. To me, you basically have all the data possible, but we've had it for a while. I think people are getting better at figuring out what data matters. And sometimes it's simple.

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It's Joe Mazzola taking over the Celtics and being like, if we shoot 53s a game, we're going to make between 15 and 20 of them. And if we make 20, we then become unbeatable. And if we make 15, we're probably going to win anyway. So this is how we're going to play. And everybody on our team has to be able to play this way. We can't have a bad apple.

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Every single person on the team has to be able to shoot. So that's like a philosophy crossed with math, right? Which I think is the next evolution of this. Before it was, if you look at some of the stuff Daryl was doing 20 years ago, it was like, Shane Battier, we have all these stats that say when he plays, his team is better. There's plus minus, there's defensive stuff.

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I remember I asked him once, Do you have stats that tell you how good somebody is defending the low post? And I think he said back to me, this is why we have Chuck Hayes. And I'm like, really? And he's like, yeah, Chuck Hayes is really good at this. So those are the advantages. But now everybody knows. We're going to take one more break. We're still going to do culture and tech really quick.

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All right, we'll fly through this because you're on your book tour. You want to do culture or tech?

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Okay, go ahead.

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Well, it's funny because it's come around because in the 80s and 90s, they always had too many shows too. They would do, you know, the police dramas, a show like NYPD Blue, they tried to do 22 episodes of those. 90210 Melrose Place, they would have 32 episode seasons like that. And these were, you're basically on a soap opera schedule.

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And then I think when the cable started to have success and Sopranos was like 13 episodes, it tilted, right? And then it was like, oh, shorter, better. And then you've, you know, the network was over here trying to make as many as possible and the cable was over here. I thought where you were going And I think it ties into what you're saying. I think we've entered the white noise era.

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I think the reason people don't care about what you're saying that much is because a lot of times the show's just on as they're doing two or three other things. It's like how you talked about the NBA. You kind of know what's going on with the NBA, but not really. I've watched shows... This would actually be a funny website.

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I've watched shows where if I had to take a quiz after, I've watched entire shows, like 10 episodes. Like I just watched, what's that show? The show with James Marsden and Sterling K. Brown, Paradise. I watched every episode of Paradise. If I had to take a quiz and you asked me like, what's this person's name? What happened in episode three? I think I would get like a 50

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But I watched every minute of it. But I didn't really watch every minute of it. It was a great show to have on. It was a home run. And I would look up every once in a while. And I think Netflix knows this. I think Netflix has figured out some of their shows are just kind of like, have this on as you're doing other stuff. Isn't that the Meghan Markle show in a nutshell? It's interesting.

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I don't know what happens in that show.

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It's the old way we used to watch SportsCenter where you just say, I'm just going to throw on SportsCenter and it's just going to run on a loop for four hours. And now people do that. I do this with, I'll go to Pluto and I'll be like, all right, cheers channel. I'll just throw that on for two hours as I'm doing something.

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Like I like how it's almost like different than listening to music, but not really because it's just sound that's happening and occasionally you look up and occasionally you look up. But I really do think I think you've stumbled into something because the degree of difficulty for keeping our attention has gone down so far. Like we're doing these White Lotus recaps, right? And I agree with you.

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If you just watch those first four episodes and you're not 100% locked in watching, you're basically just on vacation in Thailand and nothing's really happening. But we have to actually watch it to figure out. And there's like a lot of stuff buried in there.

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that I don't know if most people watch TV to look for that stuff anymore because they're just in Thailand wondering who the murder is gonna be.

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One of the themes you hit pretty hard is what changed from the 40s and 50s and people trying to proactively come up with big picture ideas of how to change stuff, grow stuff, versus where we are now, wherever the hell we are now. What changed? What did you figure out? What was so different about post-World War II and the way we thought about everything versus the way we think about everything now?

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You know what's different than this? Adolescence on Netflix. And I think one of the reasons it's being so well-received and it's excellent is it's just, they're not doing this. It's four episodes and they put a ton of thought into how they did it. And I actually like Paradise. I thought it was good, but I just, I think it's more like we're just damaged by how much TV...

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We were all watching, especially when we were all stuck inside that this is just kind of how it goes now. This is why Temptation Island on Netflix is going to do great this week. Look up every once in a while. They're in the temptation tank. Still being tempted. I'm going to look up. I'm going to stop sending the seaball. I want to see what happens. Now we're back.

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All right, mine, I'm not positive this is going to work, but I do feel this way. Everyone's talking about how video podcasts are new talk shows, which, by the way, has happened years ago. I don't know why this became a narrative recently. I think the video podcasts are getting better because the equipment's getting better and more people are putting thought into how to do them.

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But we were doing video podcasts at Grantland in 2012. It's just everything looks better. The cameras are better. The studios are better. Everything's better. The question is what happens to actual talk shows? Because we always hear about video podcasts and new talk shows.

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And it got me thinking like, if Kimmel and Colbert and Fallon and Seth Meyers are the old school traditional late night talk shows, right? This format that we've had since the 1940s, basically. But then the new versions of them I mean, Mulaney's trying to do something on Netflix now. That's like a little 12 episode once a week run. Greg Gutfield is on Fox News.

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Andy Cohen, I guess that's a talk show. First Take is sort of a talk show. They talk sports for two hours. It's regimented. It happens even though it's not like a Kimmel-type show. But then you think, and I include myself because I had a failed talk show on HBO. HBO, Showtime, Apple, Peacock, TBS, ESPN, Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, Fox, Comedy Central multiple times.

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have all been launching talk shows over the last 10 years like it's the old model. Vice. None of them made it. And if one of them made it, I'm forgetting. Desus and Mero had a moment on Vice and went to Showtime and then that one broke up. But for the most part, this has been replaced by pods over the last 10 years and it's almost like we're finally realizing it.

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And I wonder like when Kimmel and Fallon and Colbert leave, what happens to those time slots?

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That audience is going down for the TV, but all those shows do really well on YouTube. And that's what's kept them sustainable because they have awesome, huge YouTube footprints and social footprints. And that's how the shows have stayed relevant and in the conversation.

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Put up a new Prestige TV podcast. We did the White Lotus episode five recap, aka the Sam Rockwell episode. Fantastic. Check that out. It's a video podcast on Spotify. So is the new Rewatchables. We put up Days of Thunder. Me and Kyle Brandt and Chris Ryan. Tom Cruise's 16th rewatchables movies. He's got a three movie lead over De Niro and Pacino at this point.

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Or do they even try, though? Or do they just say, you know what? These three are the last three, right? Because Jimmy thought he was going to retire the last contract he stayed, you know? And it's like, at some point, if that show leaves, if he decides he's done, I don't even know how you replace it. How do you even, do you just throw somebody in there?

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Because we've seen, I just don't know what happens. Yeah. And maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe it just gets all replaced by video putts.

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But you need to find the face of a show. Like the key with Jimmy was he got built up as that show because they just didn't cancel it. And he was able to get all his reps and build himself into an actual brand and it took a couple years. Would anyone have the patience to do that in 2025 when you're battling YouTube era and the YouTube economy?

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He's like, I'm already making a shitload of money. No thanks. I'm going to be on every day. I can do once a week.

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But that's a bonus. The question is, could that exist again with the way the infrastructure is?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Or it's Greg Gutfield. Tech. I don't know the answer to that. I was hesitant to do that one, but I feel like those three guys might be the last guys. Interesting. Because I don't know how you'd be able to build up the bench and make them as big as that generation because I thought when those guys all were building their shows, the model was still there.

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Now you saw Stewart come back to The Daily Show and reinvigorate it and show that you're going on. But he's also over 50. Last one, tech.

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We were doing so positive there for one second.

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This is a great one.

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It's really good. I have one thing to add. Let's do it. This is a sub theory that I've had for a while that I think I've told my wife about. I don't know if I've said it on the pod. I think people who text too much That starts to become how you talk and just how you write. And just, and sometimes I'll meet people and I'm like, whoa, just their vocal patterns.

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I'm like, that's a person who texts a lot. It's like excited, thrilled, great. Like just like all these like exclamation point language. And you just think like, oh, that's somebody that probably can't put together nine straight sentences in a row.

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Because when you're texting a lot, you're doing shortcuts and you're just trying to get the fastest possible thought out emotion, just trying to get it to somebody and then move on to the next thing. So it goes back to what you're saying. It's not just like the attention span's dropping. It's also how we're communicating. We're taking shortcuts to that.

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If you're taking shortcuts to how you communicate, how are you going to communicate well? Mm-hmm. I worry about this with my kids the most. I feel like my daughter is a really good conversationalist, but she also texts a lot. I'm like, is this going to ruin her brain at some point?

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Well, I'm going to get grim as well with my last one. So remember when COVID happened? And there was this whole wave afterwards where it was like, people have been telling this was going to happen for years, that the next pandemic was coming, that you have to be ready. And then people are like, look at this article in 2017. They laid out. Look at this in 2009. They laid out.

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We knew this was, why didn't we know? I feel, I hope I'm wrong, but I feel like the next pandemic is actually going to be a massively crippling tech hack.

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where the best, and it's going to be somebody who has bad intentions, the best way, like think about what's the best way to disrupt America other than all the easy ways to do it. It would be to disrupt how we use all of our digital stuff for like a long period of time.

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If we lost the ability to communicate, to be able to pay for anything, to be able to consume for entertainment, to be able to turn on our alarm to protect our house, all of these different things. If somebody just incapacitated us in the worst way possible for like a week, What would happen?

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And I know people think about this and worry about this, but now it's like, I just feel like with AI and all the stuff that people just seem to be getting better and better. When you think the old days of like just... Logging onto AOL in 1999 and how easy it would have been to just hack anybody's emails back then.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And now we have all these buffers and different things and the iPhone and the iPad, they're constantly doing updates. And oh, you got to add this because they figured out some way to hack this. What happens if we get hacked and it's like a COVID level hack where we just get annihilated tech wise? Is that conceivable? It's the first time I've ever started thinking about this.

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I think of the movie War Games from a million years ago. When the computer got start was thought they were playing chess and then decided to almost take us to the brink of a nuclear war. It was like, Oh, computers are scary. That was like 1982. Now we're like 17,000 levels beyond that. But, um, cause I was thinking, do you take money when you leave the house now? Do you have money on you?

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Just think about that. Think how crazy that is.

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Cause I was one of those people. I always wanted to have like a hundred dollars in cash in me at all times. The matter, the matter what age I was or at least 40 bucks or you just never know. I just always wanted to make sure I was covered. And now it's like, do you need, when do you use cash ever?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Unless you're tipping a Valley at a restaurant or a hotel or something, you could get through a month of your life without ever bringing out a dollar bill or a quarter. And what happens if that just goes away for two weeks?

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And the other silver lining is I think there's a lot of people focused on this and worried about it. But it was something I was thinking of. All right. Well, that was a depressing ending. Derek Thompson, Abundance. It's out. You and Ezra Klein. You can listen to it on Spotify. You can buy it in a bookstore. You can buy the e-book. You can do all that. How long is the book tour? What are you doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh my God. Do you negotiate all of this with your wife? She signed off on this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Thank you, man. Thanks for coming on. Good to see you. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Derek Thompson. Good luck with your book, Derek. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle as well. Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast every time on Spotify. You can also check out the Bill Simmons YouTube channel if you want to see clips and full episodes.

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And I'm going to be back on this podcast on Thursday. See you then.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson

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The Future of Everything With Derek Thompson

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Yeah, you go back to the 60s, 70s, all the stuff you mentioned, post-Vietnam, post-the assassinations and all the conspiracy stuff that started during that era, which it's interesting to see how, and we talk about this a lot when we do rewatchables movies from that era, like how the movies reflect the mood of what America was.

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Like we did a Vietnam movie war series that we ran on Sean's big picture feed about all these different Vietnam movies, what they're actually trying to say about the disillusionment with people toward government, toward America, toward war, like just sending this whole generation of people just to get killed or come back named or paralyzed or God knows what.

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And it feels like it started there and then it never really rallied out of it. And you look at the big politicians that made it. Reagan comes in the 80s and it's like, we're going to be the big American again. And we've got to beat Russia. And all of these politicians have kind of captured the mood of whatever the country is, which is where we are now with Trump.

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But I do feel like 60s and 70s, something shifts. We don't trust government anymore anymore. And I think that's part of why we can't fix any of this stuff, because do you trust the people who would want to fix it? I don't trust the people in California right now at the fires, like how they're trying to fix that. I don't think I don't trust one person who's in charge of any of that.

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Speaking of video podcasts, Amy Poehler's new podcast, Good Hang with Amy Poehler. We launched it today. Very excited about it. You can listen to her talk to Martin Short. That's an episode. You can listen to her talk to Tina Fey. That's an episode. And we put a lot of time and work and effort into this. And Amy's the best. So I really hope this podcast becomes humongous.

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And that's a real thing. And I think a lot of people feel that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you could feel it after the election. When it was this great big reckoning that probably should have happened years earlier, right? And then people, some of the stuff was, I don't know, kind of black comedy hilarious where you're like, really? You're saying all this now?

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And I don't know why it wouldn't. Because again, Amy is the best. So congrats to her coming up on this podcast. Speaking of the best, we have Derek Thompson from the Plain English podcast. Every once in a while, he pops on and we talk about the future of everything. We have a gimmick for this. You've probably heard it in the past.

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Like, you didn't realize that a lack of authenticity was maybe going to be a problem?

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this is podcast fault? You didn't have a better podcast front? What are you guys talking about? First of all, we need somebody who can inspire people from each party, right? Trump clearly inspired over half the country. That's why he won. So who's going to inspire people on the Democratic side? And we're going to talk about this when we do Future of Everything. But I was really surprised by

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Everybody collectively going, whoa, now what? This didn't work. It was like watching, be like if the Phoenix suns ended the season and they're like, whoa, we finished 38 and 44. What happened? It's like, yeah, we were watching you lose games in real time. You're shocked now that that's your record.

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So it feels like there's a reckoning now, but you know, like everything else that's going to depend on, can you find one, two, three, four people that will inspire people going forward? And I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Coming up, talking NBA Cup and the state of the NBA, boxing, land man, Timothy Chalamet. This is a great podcast. That's all next. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold Michelob Ultra. Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them.

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We had Bird and Magic in the league for a while. They don't play against each other in the finals, even though they have this great rivalry dating back to 79 when college basketball was way bigger than the NBA. Bird and Magic play each other during the same year CBS is like, you know what? We're showing all of these finals games live now. We're going to show them in primetime.

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We're going to really try to get behind the league. And they get Bird and Magic. They get a seven-game series. They get one of the great series in the history of the league. That happens. They have Michael Jordan on the Olympic team that summer coming into the league on the Chicago Bulls, the third biggest market they have. MJ happens. And then we're off. We get David Stern. We get Cable.

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We have USA and ESPN by that point. So as a little kid on the East Coast, all of a sudden I'm able, I couldn't see George Gervin and David Thompson or whoever in the 70s unless I went to the Boston Garden to see them. Now in the 80s, I can just pop on Cable. I can see Dominique Wilkins. I can see Isaiah Thomas. I can see Adrian Danley. Whoever I want, I can see.

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I can see Magic Johnson on the other coast. So that's happening. They're figuring out how to brand stuff better. Once MJ really gets going with the bulls, the NBA takes off. We get the NBA fantastic commercials and we have this incredible unicorn 15 year run bird versus magic Jordan, six titles.

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We have the Riley Knicks and Hakeem and Barkley and Isaiah's Pistons, the Blazers, Sean Kemp and GP Stockton and Malone. I didn't really like watching them that much, but I'm going to throw them in anyway. Uh, On and on and on it went. And it was the watershed time to ever be a basketball fan. It was the most talent concentrated into one area. Everyone's playing super hard.

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The league was the most fun, I would say, in the late 80s, early 90s. And it just keeps, Jordan retires. They're fine because the Knicks make it that year. Jordan comes back. It becomes the biggest story, really, of anything other than maybe the decision with LeBron. Jordan wins three straight titles in a row in the Bulls, including the 72-win Bulls.

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as well next week on the rewatchables i think from next week is the first week we're going to be video pod on spotify for the rewatchables so you can watch it on our youtube channel ringer movies but more importantly you could watch it on spotify as you're listening to it you can just see our beautiful faces so stay tuned for that on this podcast

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And the NBA just goes, it's just arrow pointing up. All of it's captured in the last dance. Well, what happens? We hit the danger zone again. MJ retires. Right after he retires, Lockout. No basketball for six, seven months. People are pissed because these guys are making so much money. The young guys are able to switch teams three, four years. Everyone starts getting mad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All the ugly, casual racism stuff starts like percolating a little bit again. It's like as hip hop culture infected the NBA, Stern puts in a dress code. Wasn't great. Not great times. Well, what happens? We don't have an MJ successor. Grant Hill, KG, Tim Duncan, C-Web, Iverson, Shaq. We're an MJ successors. And then 2000, Kobe and Shaq. So we have Shaq and Kobe together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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We kind of know something's happening with Kobe. And in the 2000 season, that's unicorn number four. Shaq and Kobe. Shaq fouls out of game four of the finals. Kobe comes in, puts on the Superman cape, wins the game. They end up winning the title. This is after they escaped against Portland the previous round. And now we have this crazy Kobe and Shaq run. That was like real drama, real theater.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They were great. The 2001 Laker team is probably one of the two best teams of the century. As of that's happening, a phenom named LeBron James is in high school. He's going to be in the 2003 draft with Carmelo and some others. And the league looks great from 2000 to 2003. That is our unicorn number four moment. Shaq and Kobe ending up on the same team in Los Angeles, California on the Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Couldn't have worked out better. Well, we immediately hit the danger zone again in 2003. We have the Kobe incident and the trial. Not great. We have the 2003 and 2004 finals, which were rock fights, and ESPN Classic and NBA TV Hardware Classics, I think, are banned from showing any of those games. Defense got too good. The game got too physical. We had Kobe and Shaq falling apart.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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The game slowed down. The pace slowed down to the point that after the 2004 season, they had to add all these rule changes and these other legal defense stuff just to try to quicken stuff up again. And you had a league that was built around Tim Duncan. I think he's one of the seven best players of all time. Didn't really resonate with people like he should have. Dirk Nowitzki, German.

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KG, mostly stuck on bad teams except for 0-4. C-Web. Dwayne Wade. Angry Kobe. Young LeBron on crappy Cavs teams. it was grim. And I, if you remember, like when I was writing for page two, back when my fingers worked, I used to have a joke about how I was one of the last 20 NBA fans. And the joke was that the NBA kind of sucks now, but I still love it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And I, this was a gimmick that I would do because we were in real danger with the league culminating in the Oh six finals where we had the referee controversy with Dallas and Miami. And, uh, We've all agreed not to talk about the 2006 finals. Then the 2007 finals where the East was like in such bad shape. LeBron ends up making the finals.

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I'm going to start at the top with some thoughts about the NBA Cup, the final game, and also the state of the NBA because it's been a big topic lately. And I have some big picture thoughts about that. Chris Mannix joined us to talk about just the Jimmy Butler trade buzz in Vegas and some other NBA topics. And then really, I had him on to talk about boxing because we have a big card this weekend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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He's a heroic performance by him with just an awful Cavs team that I think would be a 14 seed if we had them in the season now. So things are grim. Things are bad. There's a lot of what's wrong. You can go back and search for my column archives, multiple what's wrong with the NBA column. What happens? Well, unicorn number five situation happens, 2008 to 2018.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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In short order, we get the probably illegal Pau Gasol trade where the Lakers just steal Pau Gasol. And nobody even else knows he's available. Thanks again to Chris Wallace for creating the second mini Kobe dynasty. Gasol and the Lakers. Now the Lakers are a contender. KG's already been traded to Boston. Now Boston's a contender. All of a sudden, we have Celtics-Lakers in 2008. And we're off, baby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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We're back. Kobe loses in 08, but wins the next two finals. Celtics are in there in 2010 against them. After 2010, LeBron, who can't get it done with Cleveland, the decision. Probably the single biggest off the court NBA moment that we've had other than MJ retiring. The decision. He changes teams. People lose their fucking minds. Goes to Miami. All of a sudden we have Miami LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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We have aging but still fun Kobe on a contender Lakers. Aging but still fun Celtics. A bunch of great young players coming up like KD and Russ on the Thunder. It's just going and going and going. And then what happens? Curry and the Warriors show up. Curry reinvents basketball. He's hitting threes from all over the place with Klay Thompson. They have their little run.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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This goes all the way through 2019. 2019 finals is the tipping point. Durant gets hurt. Klay gets hurt. That Warriors dynasty ends. Durant, we lose a year of his prime. We lose a whole year of Curry's prime with the Warriors. Really, two years. But that was our last unicorn stretch, 2008 to 2019. And then what happens? We're in danger again, starting in 2020. The bubble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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The bubble ends this really fun NBA season we're having where LeBron and the Lakers, Kawhi and the Clippers, Giannis is on his way up, Jokic is on his way up, Embiid's on his way up, Tatum and Brown are on Boston, and it just feels like And then boom, the bubble, weird. The player movement becomes out of control. It just feels like every year guys are switching teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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It starts to feel a little more like NBA 2K. Load management becomes a bigger story. The schedule's too long. We all hate it. They won't do anything about it. The three-point stuff. just gets worse and worse and worse. Now we have the Celtics shooting over 53s. So there's a sameness to a lot of the games that I think a lot of people are down on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I would encourage people to go back and watch some of the terrible post-ups in the 80s and 90s and see if you still don't like threes. But there's definitely a Curry effect with how the game is being played. The foreign stars are now all the best under 30 guys. And this is a league that dating back to Hakeem, who is just one of the best players I've ever seen in my life, but he wasn't from here.

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And he never resonated like an American guy. Now we have Jokic and Giannis and Luka and Embiid and Wemby and maybe even SGA if he can bounce back from a terrible NBA cup. and become, you know, a real guy this year, maybe take, okay, see the finals. Those are six guys that aren't from here And we're talking about when is the next star?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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My guy Usyk is fighting Fury, the rematch. So we're going to talk about that and some of the big heavyweight fights coming up. And then last but not least, CR, Chris Ryan. We did a couple things in studio yesterday that I taped for this podcast. One is about Landman, which is my favorite TV show of the decade, just hands down. Succession really started last decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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This is a league that's so beholden to the LeBron, Curry, Durant era and seems so afraid to pass the torch to the under 30 guys. You can see it with the TV schedule. OKC is on TV this year less than the Lakers, less than the Warriors because they keep feeding us LeBron and Curry. You watch ESPN, all the content they're doing on First Take and on the NBA Today, it's always Lakers, Lakers, Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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They're playing the hits. And it's coming at the expense of trying to build up these new stars, which we even saw in the Olympics. I love the Olympics. I thought LeBron and Curry and Durant, watching those guys fend off Serbia and France, that was amazing stuff. but it did come at the expense of the next generation of guys who kind of needed a moment like that, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And I think this league is, if there, if there's a criticism that I think is valid, it's, it's pushing these guys that have kind of already had their moment that were already great and trying to extract more great moments from them when there's probably not a lot of greatness left versus rolling the dice with some of the new guys, which is

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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you know, I see why they do it, but at the same time, like they gotta be pushing the younger guys more. And at the same time, like you have somebody like Edwards who is such a unique and original guy. And then he shows up for this season, he's shooting 12 threes a game and he's starting to look like everybody else I'm watching. So there's a sameness to the new guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And then you have somebody like Jokic, who is really bird and magic trapped in a Serbian seven-foot doughy body. But he's not from here. And for whatever reason, he doesn't cook with fans. I don't think the way he should. So my point, big picture, is that we've had five unicorn moments. And now we're due for a sixth. And this league has been around for eight decades.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And every time a unicorn moment, we're not even in the middle of one or we don't have one coming. Everybody thinks the NBA is in trouble. They're in danger. It's over. This is just the DNA of the league. And here's what's going to happen. There's going to be some new player that comes in, some new team, some new event. It's going to shift this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And all of a sudden we'll be like, oh, you know, it's like when we did the Vince McMahon documentary, Triple H had this great quote about when he was talking about when Stone Cold and Vince and that whole era. And he was like, I felt it's like an earthquake. It's like, did I feel that? Did something move? And you just kind of know from a narrative standpoint, something has moved.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And that's what the NBA needs right now. I don't know what that's going to be, but I'm going to bet on the 80-year history of the league and the fact that internationally, it's fine. This is an American problem. People are losing interest in America because they can watch fourth quarters of games on the NBA app. They can follow it like what Derek Thompson said on my podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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You can follow the league without really watching it. So the ratings are down, but I'm not sure the interest is down. What they're missing, ironically, is what women's college basketball with the WNBA had, where Kaitlyn became somebody that people just wanted to watch. They just wanted to watch her games. They didn't care who she was playing. They didn't care what the stakes were.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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They wanted to watch her. And that's why I think you could really make the case. She's more valuable than anyone the NBA has because she's the only must-watch basketball player right now other than the old guys in the NBA. So they have to figure out what is their unicorn moment. But my prediction is that it's the NBA. It's been 80 years. It's looked bleak before. They always bounce back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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So I can say my favorite new show of this decade. And then we talked about Timothee Chalamet and the Bob Dylan movie and Chalamet's chances to win an Oscar? What should he do next? And more importantly, why hasn't he come on my fucking podcast yet? So we're gonna hit all that. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, I am taping this after the NBA Cup Final in Vegas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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This is the league we have chosen. We're gonna take a break and we are going to come back with Chris Maddox. FanDuel wants you to win even bigger this NFL Thursday night. Right now, all customers can get a 30% catch-a-pass profit boost on the Thursday night football game. That means you can boost your NFL catch-a-pass bet by 30% and take home even more winnings during the game.

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Bet on over-unders, spreads, player props, and so much more. Plus, if you win, you'll get paid instantly. Chargers-Broncos Thursday night. I want to find out more about Herbert's ankle, but I think this is a kitchen sink game for the Chargers. And if his ankle's okay, I think I like that minus three. But don't wait. Download America's number one sportsbook. Take advantage of a profit boost today.

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The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Must be 21 plus in present select states or 18 plus in present in DC. Opt-in required. Max wager amount applies. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including token expiration. See terms for both offers at sportsbook.fando.com. Gamble and prom call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV.

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It's December. It's the season of giving, but let's be honest, you deserve a gift too. And what better gift than NFL Sunday Ticket? All the bye weeks are done. You need multi-view. You need the four games at once, especially with the early games. You got all these playoff implications.

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The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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fantasy playoffs whatever else you're doing to make the season more exciting uh i always have the four games on the giant tv and then i try i'm lucky enough to have a couple other tvs because i do this for a living i try to have six games going at once so i could see everything but as we get later in the year and the games become even more meaningful sometimes i'll get wacky i'll just put one giant game on and then two smaller games on the tvs everyone's got their own thing

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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You can skip the candles and the ugly sweaters this year. Gift yourself NFL Sunday ticket. Get the rest of the NFL regular season for only $49. What a deal. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS. You can get the Ringer Gambling Show as well, the Sunday Ringer pregame. Device and content restrictions apply to multi-view local and national games on YouTube TV.

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The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. All right. Chris Mannix is here. You can read him on Sports Illustrated. You can listen to his excellent boxing pod. He's got a basketball pod too. He's in Vegas. We're taping this before the NBA Cup tonight. So we're going to avoid that. You really came on to talk boxing. I'm going to save that. I'm going to put that over.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Just quickly, some basketball stuff because you've been in Vegas for a couple of days. What's the big buzz? What are all the kids talking about?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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So I watched the fourth quarter in OT of the game last night against Detroit that they ended up losing in OT. He was incredible in that game. I think he had like a 35, 19, and 12, something like that. But it looked like playoff Jimmy was really trying hard. That team has a weird identity issue with Hero, who's been excellent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And it seems like over and over again at the end of games, it's just these Hero 27-footers or Butler. Bam's not involved really at all. And, uh, it's just, it's just a weird team to watch. It's not a team that's going to win four straight playoff rounds, but it seems like to me, we've seen this go a couple of different ways with the guy who maybe doesn't want to be there anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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He's got, you know, he's going to be a phrase at the end of the year. Maybe he's not, he's not happy. The team didn't give him an extension. He seems like he's moved toward the, I'm actually mad. I didn't get the extension and now I'm leaving after the year. I'm going to show everybody how awesome I am. And to me, I said this on the pod the other day, Houston's the team. You watch Houston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, and the other big part is an end-of-the-game guy, which they don't have. they, you really feel it. Like they have no chance in an OKC playoff series. They're just not going to be able to get shots they want. OKC just strangled them. You know, it's like, we're going to talk boxing later. It was like watching the boxer who just doesn't let the other guy breathe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the guy just is trapped in the corner against the ropes, just trying to hang on. That's how I felt watching them offensively. Shangoon's probably the safest bet. I don't trust any of their perimeter guys. And they don't have that one guy who's like, all right, one point game, three minutes left, like kind of take us home. They go to Fred VanVleet. I don't trust Jalen Green at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Like he gone down the line, but I like a lot of their players and I do think they have an identity. And what's interesting is he fits in with the identity so perfectly. So I was saying a couple of days ago about Butler with Rozier. And then VanVleet's expiring's in there. And you load it with, you know, guys to make that, they have a bunch of expirings to make it work. And then they have picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And for Miami, it's just a reboot. They get cap space this summer. Nobody has cap space this summer. It's one of the crazy things. Yeah, and one other team, right? It's like Washington or, I think there's only two teams with 30 million and up. Miami could rig this. So all of a sudden they could have the most cap space and be, to me, it's a reboot destination thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Milwaukee Bucks, they destroyed the Oklahoma City Thunder, who could not hit a shot. It happens. They looked young. They looked a little nervous. They looked like a team of young guys from Oklahoma City who had just spent the last five days in Las Vegas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All of a sudden next year, they're a different team and a little more dangerous. And we've seen them do this multiple times in the last 20 years, right? Where it seems bleak, then all of a sudden they're back. So I'm working under the assumption they're trading them. You don't think they would possibly think that they could beat the Celtics and the Cavaliers and OKC?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I saw you had that last week. As a Jokic guy, I loved it. And I was trying to talk myself into it. But that can't be the centerpiece. I mean, you don't think that, do you? Is Porter the centerpiece of a Butler trade?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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But now I don't have cap space next year. I do that. You don't. I'm committed to those three guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They looked like a team that didn't realize they were at the adult table where Giannis was sitting, who proceeded to unleash holy hell on them, which he's been doing basically for over a month now. I think the last 16 games, he's something like 34, 15, and 7. He doesn't shoot threes anymore. which I think, you know, not like he was jacking up 10 a game, but he was always shooting three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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you know who would root for that trade is the Celtics. Cause they'd be like, Oh wait, you're going to have Porter and hero and the same team in crunch time. This is great. It's like an all you can eat for who we're going to attack.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, I I'm with you in the sense that I do like Porter as an asset a little more than I think other people, the contract, the back issues, like there's, there's real things to be scared about. Like the defense, the fact that he's been replaced during games and crunch time for Russell Westbrook for defensive purposes. Like there's red flags.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I love that he's played with Jokic for this long because that's like getting your fucking masters for how to play basketball. Right. There does seem like there's more there offensively. But to me, that's a guy I like. I'm looking at a team like Brooklyn or some of the other like Eastern Conference also rants. And if you're looking at Porter thinking like, you know what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens. People come over, they want a beer. They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or, I've never tried one of these. I've heard you talk about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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this is a guy who might be a 25 point game, point of game score on a different team. You know, right now he's in the corner a lot, or he's like just trying to play. Jokic and Murray are running everything. So what might that look like on a crappier team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What could that look like on like the Pistons with what we watched, you know, with Tim Hardaway and Beasley are doing and Tobias Harris are doing that kind of shooting forward spot. What if you put Porter in there? So, yeah, listen, I would love to see Denver somehow improve this. I just don't know. I don't think Porter is enough to get somebody like Butler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then Golden State feels like they shot their wad with the Melton thing. Now they can't put the salaries together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's certainly the most fun for the playoff run. I can't believe you said Jokic's defense was terrible. That really hurt my feelings as a number one Jokic lover. Because it's conditionally terrible because he's got great hands. He's he's jumping passing lanes. He gets steals like he's very active. He's good at breaking two on ones. There's things he does well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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But then you watch a game like the Kings last night where they're just getting basically whatever they want. And, you know, his lack of rim protection becomes more of a problem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He, you know, would always kind of test it out. But now he's just like, I'm going to be early 2000 Shaq crossed with Spider-Man. And I think he's, as I'm recording this, he's plus 600 for MVP on FanDuel. And, you know, he's closed the gap with him and Jokic, as great as Jokic has been. Milwaukee seems like a real contender. OKC still seems like a contender. This is the league now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Well, and I think the too many minutes thing is a big problem, too. Is there any other Butler team? Because you threw out Denver the other day. Golden State and Houston were the two I was focusing on in the content I did. Is there... Is there anybody else we're not thinking of?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know why Miami... And he would have to waive a no trade clause and he's not Bradley Beal anymore. If it was three years ago, Bradley Beal... I guess we could talk about it, but not the guy now. It doesn't seem like he can play for three straight weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I thought I was going to... Thursday, I had the Cam Johnson, Dennis Schroeder, Golden State. I did a whole thing about it. And I really thought that was going to be how it played out. And then they got Schroeder two days later. They didn't get Cam Johnson. And then the reporting people were saying they didn't want to put Kaminga on the table in a Cam Johnson trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I was really surprised by that because the contract that Cam Johnson's on versus what Kaminga is probably going to get for agency next year, 30 million, I'm guessing Johnson's like at 22. I'd just rather have Cam Johnson. I think he's a better asset.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And I thought if they, and that's why I don't feel like that's dead yet because I think the more you stare at that, the more you think, ah, Cam Johnson at 22 is... just a good asset. That's like, if I was doing like top 30 best contracts in the league for non-rookie contract guys, Kim Johnson's in like the top 12, making 22 a year. So I don't think that's dead yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think they're holding on. The problem, though, you mentioned Schroeder before. I don't know if they can trade him in a trade where he's with other players because the trade deadline's early this year. It's like February 6th. So I think the trade they did for Schroeder, it's not in that two-month window where then you can repackage the guy for multiple guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you don't make threes, you know, you're probably not going to win if you're shooting 35 to 53s a game. If they're not going in, you don't have a chance, which ties into a bigger theme with what's going on with basketball right now. The last couple of weeks have been peak people asking me what's going on with the NBA. And, you know, part of it is the ratings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, that's great then. So they could do Kaminga... Wiggins, Schroeder, and they'd have to find a fourth guy somewhere like Podzemski, who I think they overvalued over the summer. I think it was one of the lessons of the summer. They're making him basically an untouchable, and he's just been really bad this year. Not totally his fault he's playing out of position, but he has been good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Why do you think it didn't work for him in Boston? Because this version of Schroeder now I really like, but in Boston, it just didn't work.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I really like him too, because competitive... a good defensive player, like, just feisty. The feistiness now, you have him and you have Draymond and Kamiga gets a little feisty sometimes. Curry talks shit. Like, there's a little more of an identity with the team. The only other Butler I was looking at and trying to figure out anyway was the Cavs. Just... Does that even make sense?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do they have the contracts? I just couldn't figure it out. And I'm not confident that they would do anything major anyway because they have great chemistry right now, and I don't think you'd want to fuck with that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Let me ask you, if salaries, if you could throw out salaries when you made trades, do you think the Celtics would trade Peyton Pritchard straight up for Giannis?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is an unbelievable season that he's having. I mean, this is beyond six man of the year. Like his per 36 stats now are nuts. Incredible. Shooting stats are nuts. He's in the running for one of the best six man seasons anyone's had since like John Havlicek for the Celtics. I can't believe what I'm watching.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you can't even, you can barely put him in any trade. I would say if you're doing best contracts in the league, he's got to be in like the top three. He might even be number one. He's six million of the year. It's 7 million bucks. And also gives them the luxury of like, oh, Derek White's a little banged up tonight. We'll just play Pritchard. He'll score 29 in the starting spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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because everyone loves to talk about ratings, even though the NBA just signed a $76 billion deal and the ratings don't ultimately really matter. It's an American thing more than a worldwide thing because the league's doing well globally. But when you look at big picture, what's going on with the league, you know, LeBron and Curry, they're old. They're making desperate changes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's really great. I mean, the ceiling of this regular season Celtics team when everybody's back, I do feel like they have like a 16, 18 game winning streak in there somewhere before the season ends.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, if you're talking $7 million for Peyton Pritchard or $48 for Jimmy Butler, I think for the way this Celtics team's constructed, it is It really feels like you see this happen sometimes in basketball, in football, in baseball, in boxing. It seems like the game slowed down for him a little bit. He'll have these moments where all of a sudden he's doing old man post-up plays on shorter guards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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He's around the rim. He's like, oh, I'm going to do old man pickup basketball and just shoot a jump hook over this guy. It's been really impressive to watch. Speaking of boxing, big fight this weekend. My guy who I bet on every time he fights, I just parlay him with football teams. Usyk is the rematch against Fury. Usyk's never lost. Everybody's been looking forward to this fight. Is this to you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Will he finally get the credit he deserves as a main draw fight? Or what does Tyson Fury have left fight?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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My guy who no matter where I bet, I lose. Four against. I'm like 0 for my last six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They just changed the all-star game again. They just did the NBA cup in Vegas. Too many foreign stars. That's another thing you keep hearing. The schedule is too long. I've been saying that for 20 years. We can't find any under 30 American superstars to carry the torch from LeBron and Curry. That's a valid thing. Too many threes. Too much sameness in the game. Can't really counter that. Too woke.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Well, the interesting thing about the first fight is the scorecards had it closer than I think I had it in my head when I was watching. I mean, Fury almost got knocked out. It seemed like it was a wrap. And he really got the shit kicked out of him. I think it was the ninth round. And then he definitely won the 12th round. The 11th round, I remember two of the judges gave it to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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One judge didn't, which was super suspicious. But I don't know. It was a split decision, but it really wasn't. I don't think anybody watching that fight thought, oh, I wonder who won. Fury's face looked worse. Everything looked worse. I just think Usyk reminds me so much of Pereira in the UFC where you just watch him and you're like, I don't know what the answer is to try to beat this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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At least in UFC, you could try to take the guy down and get him on the ground. With Usyk, I almost feel like it's got to be somebody like Bacoli just overpowering him and using a huge size. You know I'd bring Bacoli up. Just a huge size disadvantage because he is like a blown up cruiserweight. And maybe that's how to beat him. I just don't see Fury doing it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Nobody wants to fight Bacoli. He couldn't even get on the February 22nd card. They had to like push him to the next card, but he was supposed to. I mean, it seemed like Dubois was going to be the natural whatever. He didn't want to fight him. Dubois does not want to fight Bacoli.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Usyk has a lot of pieces of things that I've loved from guys in the past. Like he, as the fight goes on, it just seems like he shrinks the ring and figures out the exact distance, how to hit the guy with the little tiny punches that don't seem like a big deal. And then they kind of add up, but there's like pieces of Hopkins in there. There's pieces of Cesar Chavez in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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The league's too woke. It's driven off a lot of possible fans. I'm not touching that one. It's an American problem and it's not a worldwide problem because again, worldwide, internationally, the league is doing really well, but it's an American problem. And yet the franchise values are the highest it's ever been. They just got the highest meteorites deal they've ever gotten.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Like they're just those guys that just, there's one fight, the first four rounds, and then the fight starts to shift and you can kind of feel it. And I don't really know what the answer is to beating him, but I just know I'm going to be betting on him every time he fights. He's 37. I don't know how many more of these he has left, but I mean, he, if you look back at his, he's 22 and oh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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He beat Joshua twice, beat Dubois, beat Fury already, could be beating him again. He was dominant as a cruiserweight. Go back to the 2012 gold medal in that whole era. Like, he was beating all those guys. And I don't... Like, if he wins this, like... What's next? Because you could fight... Dubois and Parker are fighting February 22nd. So is Zhang and Cabell. So maybe it's one of those two?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Which is one of the things that made Fury special was at his size. He was like kind of a sneaky good boxer, but not compared to this kid. I'm glad you brought up Chisora. I think he's lost to everybody in the division at this point, right? He's still going. So it's not over yet. So is there a cruiserweight that could move up?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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They have, I would say 35 to 40 completely recognizable stars, whereas football might have 10. So it's not like this is a disaster, but this is what we do with the NBA. We love to panic. We love to talk about how things are bad. And it's a little like what SNL is like, where everybody's like, SNL's dead, SNL's done. And then guess what? SNL's gonna have its 50th year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, I remember that happened with Holyfield. It took him a couple to feel like he was a heavyweight, and then it happened. Well, on FanDuel right now, he's minus 166, Usyk, which I just think is nuts. I don't understand... at this point in his career from everything we've seen, how he's not minus 250 against everyone else in that division. Just blind.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, probably the maddest people get at you is is either something you wrote about LeBron or they didn't like how you scored round four in the third to last fight on the zone thing, right? People just go nuts about the scoring. I had to go nuts watching it. I get so mad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Well, the other thing, when you're sitting close, you might miss, like, the biggest punch of the round because the ref blocked you or, you know, it's not an exact science. Before we go, we got to talk about the supercard on February 26th, or February 22nd. I don't know if there's been a card like this like the third, fourth best fight on this card would be the best fight on a Saturday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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We've talked in the past about how the Saudis and all this overseas money and they're just like, we want everybody good to fight each other and that's what we want. This seems like the full culmination of that. This is one of the best boxing cards of all time. When you saw it all laid out, were you shocked? Like they didn't even have room for Bacoli.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is an American problem, and this is eight decades of a recurring theme that I would call the NBA is in danger, that we're now living through again in December 2024. I want to go backwards. I want to go through eight decades of NBA history to show that for the most part, this is a league that's kind of always a little bit in danger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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They were like, now we're moving you over, moving your fight later. This is one of the, we have super middleweight, lightweight, welterweight, better BF against B-ball, Dubois against Parker, Zhang's fighting Cabell. Like it's a fucking crazy card.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you get these guys, this is UFC though. Like UFC has changed the thinking on this. Cause there'll be some UFC cards that you could watch for five straight hours. And they, they kind of want that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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This is like Thanksgiving. It's like, should we have sweet potatoes and mashed potatoes and stuffing? And like, fuck it. Let's just go for it. To me, this is like a once in a decade kind of card. I don't know if they'll be able to replicate this many fights in a row. I've never seen anything like this where you literally can't miss the first of seven fights.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And the best thing is Stevenson, who I think is my least favorite good guy to watch. And now he's buried on this card with six other fights. So I don't have to... you know, be like, how do I get it? I don't really like watching this guy. And now it's like he's just one of the many, but somehow they left out my guy Bacoli. So I have to get, do I have to get Bacoli on a podcast?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Like football, dating back to the John Unitas beating the Giants in the late 50s, the greatest game ever played to that point. Football has always been solid. 50s, 60s, 70s, Super Bowl, the merger. It's just been going and going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket of Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra. a superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2024, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra, registered light beer, St. Louis, Missouri. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I wonder like this card so good. I wonder if you almost need to play by play guys, uh, Is it too much to ask? It's almost like you have to go WWF or they have the two different play-by-play guys for the five-hour card. I don't even know if Gus Johnson would be able to go for seven straight hours with boxing like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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February 22nd. February turning into a surprisingly good sports month. It used to be like the dead month, but now all these different places have figured out like the trade. They moved the trade deadline up somehow against the Super Bowl and then a whole bunch of stuff happening. Chris Mannix, great to see you. Have fun at the NBA Cup tonight. I hope all's well with you. You got it, man. Thanks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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The only time I ever remember people even wondering what the future of football was going to be like, and I was one of the ones wondering, was the early 2010s with concussions, Goodell. We had to add a bunch of stuff with Gates after it. It seemed like they had to change the way that football was being played because it was too violent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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This episode is brought to you by Uber Reserve. You know what's a game changer for travel? Booking my ride in advance to the airport with Uber Reserve. Uber Reserve makes it easy to plan my whole trip. I just did this. Booking rides up to 90 days in advance to help squeeze the most out of traveling, especially if you're doing odd hours, rush hours, like early in the morning. You got to do it.

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Plus, with Uber Reserve, you'll get an assigned driver You get upfront pricing and you get extra wait time included. So go ahead, plan like a pro. Reserve your Uber ride up to 90 days in advance. See app for details. All right, coming up, you're going to hear two things I taped with Chris Ryan on Monday. The first is about Timothee Chalamet in the Bob Dylan movie.

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The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Tried not to have any spoilers in this, so we're going to play that. And then after that, we're going to move right to Landman. my favorite new show of the 2020s. So me and Chris Ryan right now. All right, I'm here with Chris Ryan. It is less than 10 days until the Bob Dylan movie comes out with Chalamet. A complete unknown. You've seen it. I have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I saw it over the weekend on the Producers Guild app. Must be nice. Low expectations. I don't want to step on your pod with Sean because I know you have a big pod coming out at Christmas. The thing that jumped out to me was how good Chalamet was. Yeah. And I intentionally tried not to read anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I wasn't that excited about the movie because I've never loved Bob Dylan just because my entire life, everyone's just talked about what kind of a moody dick he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A lot of reading, a lot of philosophizing. I liked the music, respected it. My parents really liked him. He means a lot to my mom, but we kind of know him, the older version of Bob Dylan, where it's just like kind of, Kind of mutters. Anyway, Chalamet was great. Yes. As you know, I love when people sing in movies. Val Kilmer in The Doors was one of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. He does a really good job. And I don't understand why he's not a prohibitive singer. Best actor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And there was a moment there where it was like, where's football? Are you gonna let your sons play football? Are we gonna be watching this in 20 years? And guess what? COVID happened and everybody was like, you know what? I love football. And now football feels like it's the biggest it's ever been. If you're talking about basketball, It's always been on the line of being in danger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Chalamet, this is great for the Oscars. He'll definitely get nominated. And it will feel like a younger hit for Oscars. But I got to be honest, I wasn't positive he had a performance like this in him. I didn't see a musical side of Chalamet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I hate that. But yeah, no. So now this opens up. He has this. I think he's going to win the Oscar. Yeah. I'd be surprised if he didn't. I think he'll get a lot of momentum because it's so surprising how good he is in this. Yes. In a movie, that probably shouldn't work. In a movie, I'm not even positive. I don't want to step on your take because you have the whole pot, but...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I'm not positive I love the movie that much, but I love the performances in it. I thought he was great. I thought, what's the Top Gun lady's name?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Like, Walk the Line was the same thing. People were like, I love Phoenix. I loved Reese. The movie was solid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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It has something in common with The Star is Born when we heard word about this. And then there was like the initial clips and you think, oh no. No, brother. Oh boy. Here we go. You know, we've seen people make, go this way and make the mistake. But anyway, you mentioned the press tour with Chalamet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Okay. I've wanted to have him on for years. I know he's a big Knicks fan. He seems like a genuine sports fan. He seems like a nut. And we put the stuff out. I don't know how his team decides. So this is the Chalamet, the challenge. Chalamet, come on the pod. Let's find out once and for all how much sports you know. I saw you on college game day. It was convincing. But I also know he's an actor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you go back to the 40s and 50s, the first 15 years of the league. The league, by the time we got to 1954, the league was in complete chaos. The pace was too slow. There was no shot clock. People were just fouling each other, trying to dribble out the clock. George Mikan was dominating everything, and the league kind of sucked. And then they came up with a shot clock. That fixed some of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. And he could memorize, what, four or five pages of script of dialogue in one day. He couldn't have remembered like six picks that his buddy gave him. And I want to like really dive in with the Chalamet sports experience.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, let's talk real college hoops. Do you gamble? Where do you gamble? What sites do you use? Are you a friend of FanDuel? How'd you do last week on NFL picks? How deep does this go? Do you play fantasy football?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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No, I'm doing well this year. I just had a bad last week because of your team, the Eagles. Yeah, come on. Let's really see it once and for all. Do you have takes on the Super Bowl? Lions defense is banged up. What do you think, Chalamet? Let's go. Why is NBA ratings down? NBA ratings down, why? What are your reasons?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And I want to pitch him, which I've done in the past, I did with Michael B. Jordan to much success,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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a couple roles that I think he should play now if he wins the best actor what's next heist movie really well done rom-com and then what would be the third one just stuff for us so I pitched heist movie is he bad it's a sports movie sports movie coach for Greenwald I pitched him Timothy Chalamet as a iconoclastic offensive coordinator like the Ben Johnson story

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. He just kind of unravels because he was his quarterback. He only runs so many slants.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Starring Chalamet as the offensive coordinator of the Dolphins who's falling behind with gamblers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Another one's down. So sports movie, heist movie. Yeah. Does he need to be in a there's something wrong with the house movie?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Or like if we're... I'm having fun with this, but if we're... If he's going to do the Leo playbook, just... checkmark, best director, one after the other. You work with all the greats. That's what Leo did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. You come up with your own or Mission Impossible. You come up with your own version of that. But maybe you mix it with sports.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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He's Rich Paul crossed with a spy. It's like, clutch as a front for all the espionage work he's doing. Now it's just like the young Scott Boris story. That's true.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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It was still really violent. It was a lot like hockey back then. There wasn't nearly enough scoring. They had a big betting scandal. That was a big thing. There were barely any black players, kind of a problem. All the best black players were playing for the Harlem Globetrotters, other places, because they wouldn't let them in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Well, out of all these ideas, the best idea is Mike McDaniel crossing pain and gain.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Well, whatever the case, shall we? Come on the podcast. Let's do this once and for all. Let's talk about future roles. You can run, but you can't hide, Tim. Let's talk Amar Stoudemire. Yeah. Let's talk Carmelo. Does he have thoughts on the Carmelo marrow pod? Like, I want to know all this stuff. Just come on the pod. Come open a six pack with Bill. Come on. You're going to win best actor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Come on the pod. This episode is brought to you by Bank of America. Money decisions don't have to be either or. With Bank of America, they can be yes and, as in yes to grabbing the latest merch and building up your budget for next season's tickets. Our digital tools help you create the future you want and help you keep enjoying today too. Do more with the bank that asks.

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what would you like the power to do? Explore tips and more at bankofamerica.com slash yes end. This episode is brought to you by the all new re-imagined Nissan Kicks. From the bold new exterior to the performance and tech features like intelligent all-wheel drive and a Bose personal plus sound system. Cars, where I live, I live in the Los Angeles area and cars

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or one of the most important things you can have because you're in them a lot because you got to drive around all over the place. You know what's fun? To have a nice car for an everyday commute, to have music and the ability to do hands-free stuff and just to feel safe. You can do it. Drive the all new reimagined Nissan Kicks today. Head over to Nissan USA.

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To learn more, Bose Personal Plus Sound System is an available feature. Bose is a registered trademark of the Bose Corporation. Intelligent all-wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. All right, we're taping this after the sixth episode of Landman Ran. So there's spoilers in this. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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See, I was making my all-time TV rankings. All-time, like, anything ever broadcast on television or streaming. I think Landman's, like, third. This is the greatest show of this decade. I can't believe how much I love it. It's the first show in a while that... When we're getting toward there's five minutes left, seven minutes left, I'm like, oh, man, there's only seven minutes left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Please, no. I can't wait a week. This sixth episode was the best episode of the season. It was incredible. It's everything we want from a dumb TV show like this.

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And when you think back to where the NBA was, even in the mid-50s when Russell showed up, it was regional. Everything was in the East Coast or like the Pennsylvania area, the fringes of the Midwest. There were no West Coast teams. And the NFL was bigger. College football and college basketball were bigger. Baseball was bigger. Boxing, horse racing. Name a sport.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Think of the three things you just mentioned. And it's like a hybrid of all of those things. One of the things, because we were talking to Fantasy about it. He'd only watched the first three and he's in like movies right now. And I feel like he hasn't paid 100% attention. Because if he did, he would understand. But I do feel like the second three episodes, the show really fell into place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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It was almost like shared and needed a... get a feel for the actors that he had. And once he realized, like, I just got to let Billy Bob and Ali Larder cook in every scene possible. This is the most I've liked Billy Bob literally in 20 plus years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Well, all right, so let's unwind this. So Billy Bob, this is basically the same theme as what he struck away with with Koster and Yellowstone. Yeah. A really good, likable, charismatic actor who hadn't been really great in a role in a while and then Sheridan just unlocks it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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This is all of the things I love about Billy Bob Thornton. And even like there's a little of the Friday Night Lights coach in here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Right. Yeah. And this guy's been around forever. And when he's in the right role, he's perfect. But in this, he's like super perfect. Then Allie Larder, who I think all of us who had the Varsity Blues run. Then she had the Heroes run. And I think everybody likes her, but I hadn't seen her in anything. And this is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I was saying to you earlier, there's that story about Starship Troopers that Casper Van Diem He thought he was in a serious drama, like a Spielberg movie and everybody else knew what it was actually was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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It was probably dead even with hockey. Get to the 60s. Russell's in there. We start finally getting some black stars. We get Elgin Baylor. We get Oscar. We get Will Chamberlain. And the 60s becomes, you know, Wilt versus Russell. Celtics dominance. It's still not going awesome. We still don't have like a definitive. The league is fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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She's Dion Waiters multiplied by 700. And her and Billy Bob are great together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Allie Larder's part is a hundred times bigger than that. Demi Moore has had eight lines and they filmed her from like 30 yards away in every scene. Yeah. And I don't know why she's in the show other than maybe they...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And he's wiry, and I don't know how tall he is, but yet still believable when he stands up for himself. And I was attached to him within two episodes. He starts hanging out. First of all, we didn't mention Michael Pena, who's in the credits in the first episode. Yes. And my shit detector's going off the whole time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Oh, yeah. But they basically did the same thing they did with Kyle Chandler. On Kingstown. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. So he dies. And then that sets off like his widow, all of a sudden, and you just know, it's like, oh man, this is going to go up. His friends, the dead guy's friends didn't like, they don't like where they, and you just kind of know, but I still love it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And I feel like he has complete handle on who his character is. what like his baggage is as a human being, who he has to answer to, that he can get mean. That's why episode six was so big because it was like, I know there's a dark side with this guy and we haven't really seen it 100% in the show. And then in episode six, you see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And the whole show's leading up to him confronting these guys who beat up his son. And the moment he locks in, You're just like, honestly, it's like watching like a Michael Mann movie or something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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moment and at the same time this is one of the most tumultuous decades in american history there's a whole civil rights battle happening there's assassinations all over the place and you know a league that's becoming a mostly black league had had a pretty strange fit among all that especially as russell is becoming one of the dominant athletes we've ever had and a huge spokesman along with ollie and jim brown and some others

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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This show checks so many boxes that just work for a TV show. Like, what is this world? This weird oil world. I don't really know this. Oh, now you're bringing me into it. Now I kind of feel like, what's it like for the crews that work, you know, on these oil rigs or like they're like, oh, this is like this whole little community with these little mini houses. Then it's like the ham part.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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What's it like if you own this thing? Who do you deal with? The ham part's interesting because I don't feel like that's fully baked yet. And I'm not sure how much time Ham had to film the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Who was getting a little flirty with Billy Bob and then Allie Larder's character squashed it. But she's just an assassin. Yeah. And so in episode six, she goes to see the widow and they're like, here's the check. And then they're doing a little back and forth and the widow smartly asks, well, wait a second, what do you guys get out of this? And she's like... just lays it out as cold as possible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Then the daughter is the other one. There's five or six really good characters that I want to know more about that I'm willing to go on a couple journeys with. But the most important thing to me, this is the best show Jon Hamm's ever done. You know, people say Mad Men. It's going to get aggregated. No, no.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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That's going on Hoopsite. People say Mad Men. I say watch Landman for a couple episodes. No, I'm psyched for him. I can't even tell. Maybe he only had five shooting days in a month. Billy Bob seems to be the only one who was fully committed for the six episodes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Well, and the thing with Sheridan and he figured out, he laid the groundwork for her with the first couple years of Yellowstone. He's made a bunch of shows, obviously, but to me, this is his apex. This is just like, he's taken all the lessons he's done on all these different shows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And he's like, how can I make the most entertaining show possible about the oral world in Texas with, and just let some actors cook.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. Yeah. And the ex-wife stuff, you know, that's not going to last. How that's going to go bad. But there's so many good touches. Like she goes back to get divorced, right? In episode six. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And he's like, well, bring your toothbrush. Yes. And she goes, there's a whole party in the back, but they... The other thing is I like the houses. Like it's just these weird, crazy mansions you would never see in any other walk of life. They've done a good job with that. For Sheridan though, I just feel like he's figured it out once and for all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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So the league is gaining steam from an impact standpoint, but it still hasn't hit the popular piece yet. And then we have our first unicorn situation. There's five unicorn situations total. And I want you to remember this because we're going to tie it back in at the end. So this first unicorn situation, the 1969 finals, which turned out to be Russell's last NBA finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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I think this is going to be the biggest show he's ever had. And I know Yellowstone was the biggest show of the last 10 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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That's the next iteration of this is some big-ass stars coming in because that's somewhat what happened with Yellowstone. But I think Yellowstone was a big show that we're all like, wait, is that a big show? And people were kind of stealth watching it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, and then COVID, it felt like everybody caught up and then all of a sudden that became the biggest TV show. Yeah. you know, it definitely went a little sideways once the Costner thing got weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. So this is like, there's the Prestige TV stuff that we talk about that we have the podcast named after it. And there's a certain like just elite scripted. Yeah, White Lotus kind of thing. And then there's like the Yellowstone side of stuff. There's this middle ground between those two worlds that's the hardest thing to like straddle both lines.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, where it's like, This show is not far away from being a real prestige show, but it doesn't want to be. Yeah, it wants to be funny and crazy and have music.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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one of the big lessons I've learned that if my son ever watches this is maybe don't get involved with the widow as a kid. Just, just, just point blank.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Who has the friends that are threatening you with guns? The moment you like spend, you're just raking your front yard. There's multiple, maybe like fine. There's lots of fish in the sea, buddy. Yeah. Um, no, I like, I think all the actors in this are really good too. That's the other thing. Yeah. Like she's good. The, the actress who plays the widow, um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what's the competition all time for a show like this? All time? I'm saying like that middle ground between prestige and like just going for it. I'm trying to think of other shows that were like this. Because like White Lotus was way more on the prestige side. You know, was goofy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's going for his 11th title. They're underdogs against the Lakers. We finally have a California team. We have Jerry West and Will Chamberlain and Elgin Baylor and the Lakers are favored to win game seven in LA. Russell beats them. And it turns out to be like the first great modern NBA finals game that we had.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But this show's literally for everybody. I know. There's not one person in my life who wouldn't like Landman. And if they didn't like Landman, I don't, I'd have to reevaluate my relationship with them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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like a part of this you'll like the oil stuff you'll like the the Cooper stuff you'll like the love affair between Allie Larder and Billy Bob Thornton there's something in here that you will like I couldn't get my dad to watch it and cause he's like ah Yellowstone I got sports I got a lot to I'm like dad if you don't fucking watch Landman I'm gonna like fly to Boston and I'm gonna just tie you up in front of the sofa and make you watch the episode so he started watching of course he's on My Paramount cause he doesn't know how to pay for any streamer

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And so he's like, yeah, I watched the first two. It's good. And then he watched the third one. He's like, third one was good. And then the fourth one is like texting me. Did you see Landman? So I went to watch the one last night after I did my pod on Sunday night. It had already been watched. I had to like start it over. My dad was just like, right. Yeah. So I was like, oh, he's all in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's football season and Uber Eats is dropping undefeated deals on all your game day favorites. This week's score, buy one, get one free six-piece boneless wings from Buffalo Wild Wings now on Uber Eats. And if you're craving even more, we've got you covered with game day deals on pizza, burgers, tacos, and more. All season long. Uber Eats, official on-demand food delivery partner of the NFL.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's a good comparison. Yeah. And West Wing was close to the prestige side too, but it was just a really well done, well acted fun show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, he's just by himself with a dog and he's just like, man, I haven't had anyone blow up or had some terrible thing happen in an episode and a half. Yeah. I'm just going to have this guy step on a bunch of pipes and then fall under and get crushed by them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The next year, the Knicks, everyone in New York is like so delighted the Knicks are finally good at basketball. Like the Celtics are gone. They have a chance to win the title. 1970 finals, Willis gets hurt, comes back game seven, becomes one of the most famous games in NBA history. Also, Will kind of chokes. Uh, so we have that Kareem enters the league that same year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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It'd be funny if we had like the first take type of infrastructure for TV showrunners. And it was just like, it's Sheridan the goat.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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What a win for her. I'm so happy for her. I'm happy for Billy Bob. I'm happy for everyone on the show. I'm happy for us. Yeah. So it's 10 episodes? I think so. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. This is a beloved piece of art. Watch Landman. It's really good. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Chris Mannix. Thanks to Chris Ryan. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti. As always, thanks to Jack Sanders for helping out last night with Craig Horlbeck as we taped some stuff with CR. And I will be back on Thursday with another podcast. See you then.

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The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and president DC gambling problem. Call 100 gambler, visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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And then in 1971, he wins the title. He's the most Ballyhoo Ballyhoo college player. Um, to that point to somebody that's considered to be a successor to Russell and Wilt. So he's in the league. And then the next year, 71, 72, the Lakers went 33 straight. Jerry West finally wins the title. So you have this four year unicorn run, all these crazy events, and it propels the league up. A level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And all of a sudden now the NBA is looking really good. Well, we have to go back to the danger zone again. From 1973 to 1976, they overexpand. They make the classic mistake of they just add too many teams. The ABA has formed and is stealing a lot of the young players. So all of a sudden the quality of the play is starting to go down. The quality of officiating is starting to go down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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ABC loses the NBA to CBS because CBS kind of double crosses Rune Arledge, who's the most important sports executive probably of all time. And Rune Arledge is pissed and decides to counter Bergeron and the living shit out of the NBA. College football, college basketball, wide world of sports, the superstars competition. And he just makes it his life's mission to set the NBA backwards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's a salary boom that happens where all of a sudden you have, Um, some guys that aren't doing that well, who are making a lot of money and everyone's really aware of it. Sidney Wicks, Pete Maravich, Spencer Haywood. So there's animosity toward basketball players for the first time. The Nixon Lakers are, are, are done at that point by the time we get to the mid seventies.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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And they have the future of the league, or so we would have thought on paper, Dr. J, Julius Erving, he's in the ABA. He's not even on television. So the NBA not only is getting older with some of their older stars, like Havlicek, Jerry West, all the guys from the previous generation, Oscar.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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But Doc, the guy who's supposed to come in and carry the league with Kareem, is in the wrong league and not on TV. And I'm a young kid in Boston. I would have loved watching Dr. J. Not on TV. So, again, we're in danger. And then what happens? We have a second unicorn situation. The 1976 finals. Havlicek and Callens on Boston, two of the most famous guys in the league. They're playing Phoenix.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Triple overtime game. I was lucky enough to be at the game with my dad. I was six years old. I might have slept through the fourth quarter in the first two overtimes. But it turns out to be the greatest game in the history of the league. Celtics win the title. The NBA is back. The ABA merges into the NBA that summer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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All of a sudden we have Dr. J, David Thompson, George Girvin, George McGinnis, Moses Malone. All these guys are now in the NBA and the NBA has 22 teams and stacked and it's awesome. And that leads to Kareem jumping to, Kareem's already in LA. Walton's on the Blazers. The Blazers take off that year. And it's a late run. Second half of the year into the playoffs, they beat Kareem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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They end up beating Dr. J and Philly in the finals. Bill Walton, turns out maybe he's the next Bill Russell. Everybody's in love with the guy. He's got the beard. He takes the jersey off after they win. So this is unicorn number two situation. 76 finals, 77 finals. Basketball seems like it's in the best shape that it's been in maybe ever. What happens?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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You go back to the danger zone, the late 70s into the early 80s. Wong gets hurt the next year, never really recovers. And it would be like when Binyama won the title this year and then just got hurt and we didn't see him for six years. The cocaine era happens. And the cocaine, that's hitting all the sports, that's hitting Hollywood, that's hitting the comedy circles. Cocaine starts to wipe out

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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Order now for game day. Terms, taxes, and fees apply. See app for details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables last night. Chris Ryan and I did The Gambler, a movie that came out 10 years ago with Mark Wahlberg. One of our favorite gambling movies. A really kind of deep, fun movie to talk about and make fun of and also appreciate.

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Pretty much everybody starting in 1978, and it does some real damage to the NBA and cut short some careers, changes the course of some careers. Some young stars that they're counting on go sideways. So you have that. You have the Kermit Washington punch.

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in late 1977 in that 77 78 season where he punches rudy tom janovich a white guy and all this ugly stuff surfaces up all the casual racism that people felt toward you know a mostly black league being being catered and sold to mostly white fans that all pops up and this crazy two-year run of of you can go back and read some of the old sports illustrated things about the league's too black

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that it's never going to work. And it's just, it fucking goes crazy in a bad, bad, bad way. In a way that even as a little kid, I was kind of noticing the way they were talking about it. It was not great. We had the dumb owner apex back then. This is when basically anybody could buy an NBA team and you just had these dumb owners. Like the Celtics for a year had John White Brown. He was terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, just dumb owners making dumb trades, not trying to build anything. So the teams that are just in constant chaos, you have the dumb commissioner apex to Larry O'Brien, who's awful. David Stern comes in and looks a hundred times better compared to him. A few years later, you have CBS fucking up.

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The playoffs either do tape delaying the primetime games or making the NBA schedule weekend playoff games so that you're playing game three and game four of a series back-to-back days. So they could care less about the health of the players. They really didn't want to show the NBA because it wasn't doing that well. So you had that.

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The NBA’s Danger Cycle, Plus Usyk Is Invincible, ‘Landman’ Can’t Lose, and Chalamet Will Win the Oscar With Chris Mannix and Chris Ryan

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You had college hoops, the NFL, baseball, NHL, boxing, college football, and horse racing are all more popular in the NBA by the end of the 70s because they have the Washington-Seattle finals twice a row, which are great basketball finals, but not exactly a marquee finals. And all of it is eventually captured in Breaks of the Game by David Halberstam, the best sports book of all time.

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That comes out, I think, in 82. But the NBA, like the Lakers play the Sixers, I think, in 82 and 83. And... Some of those games weren't even on live television. They weren't on until 1130 on the East Coast. That's how bad it was for the NBA. So I'm going to say a little more dangerous than right now. Leading to our third unicorn situation, the 1984 finals.

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

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Brooks, who, you know, has tried to make his decade's mission to be LeBron's rival to very little success. And then Steven Adams, who's always willing to bang into somebody, but that's just such a weird matchup.

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Yeah, I think that might be an NBA TV exclusive. Do they still have the NBA TV series? They do, right? The OKC versus whoever? Yeah. That might be squandered. OKC Dallas, I think you just shoved that over on NBA TV. OKC Memphis. Maybe it's on Tubi.

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OKC Memphis would be a fun series because the thing about Memphis, I don't think they have any title aspirations whatsoever, but they are fun to watch. The high scoring games. The other team is always going to have two guys in the 30s.

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I can't say it was the greatest Jaron Jackson performance. And I, you know, I really agonized. I ended up leaving him off third team on NBA, making way for a couple other guys. And it was, I just saw too many of those where it's like, he's good, he's solid, but you're also forgetting he's out there for large chunks of time. He's not, He's impactful, but not totally.

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And I don't know, that was a game where I feel, especially with like Golden State, as small as they were going, it felt like he could have kind of dominated that game. And I just, I think the situation is what it is.

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I think it needs a sponsor. Is there a dysfunctional product that could be the sponsor? Dallas and Sacramento, two of our most dysfunctional franchises. Whatever that product is. Maybe, is it like a... It's probably some sort of pharmaceutical product. Or maybe it's... Maybe it's like a CBD thing because you have to kind of get a little buzz on as you watch the dysfunction.

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But yeah, I have no idea. You could tell me Dallas is just ready for the season and I would believe it. Sacramento is always a rollercoaster ride and both of them had really, really, really abnormally strange seasons. Like the Sacramento, the firing Mike Brown, going to Christie, just giving up on Fox a year early for reasons that remain unclear, bringing back the Levine to Rosen combo.

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I don't know. It feels like two teams that I think are going to look a little bit different next season, whatever happens.

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I said on Zach's pod, I wonder if it's a 1-2-3 Cancun situation for Dallas. Like, we just got booed for two months. Like, let's get ready to call it a vacation. But I don't trust Sacramento either. Are we still lighting the beam in Sacramento? Or did we decide of going 500 for six months, maybe it's not beam-worthy anymore?

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Let's take a break. I want to bring in Saruti, Orlando Magic fan, to discuss the bizarre Atlanta-Orlando game we watched tonight. So, quick break right now. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Our friends, we're coming down to the stretch of the plan, heading into the playoffs, the best place to get in on all the action for all the best games, FanDuel.

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America's number one sports book. With FanDuel, there's so many ways for you to play. They've got all your favorite bets, player props, all kinds of things. They have futures. They have series bets. There's a bet I really like. Lakers to beat the Timberwolves for the series, the Knicks to beat the Pistons, and the Celtics to beat the Magic.

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It was a fascinating one. Kurt Goldsberry, I love the playing game. 8-9 is great. Super fun. We get a blowout. We get a fun game. We get some young trade rumors coming out of the first game and then the second game. Memphis, a team that I was not a huge fan of, who I think is now 12 and 18 in their last 30, put up a spirited fight.

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If you parlay those three together on FanDuel right now, minus 113. Kind of like it. Bet on the infrastructure of LeBron, Luka, and the refs. Here's your chance for the next two weeks. If that sounds good, you can score an even bigger W on Wednesdays because FanDuel is giving you a profit boost for all of tonight's action on the second day of playing games. So check FanDuel Sportsbook.com

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app to see how much you got head to Fando.com slash BS for more info make every moment more with Fando official sports betting part in the NBA must be 21 plus president select states are 18 plus president DC opt-in required minimum three-leg parlay required bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens restrictions apply including any token expiration max wager amount see terms at sportsbook.fando.com game prom call win a hundred gambler

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or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well, you can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken Parmesan delivered. I love chicken Parmesan. A cabana, that's a no. But a banana, that's a yes.

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A nice tan, sorry, no. But a box fan, happily, yes. A day of sunshine, no. A box of fine wines, yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. All right, so Rudy is joining us, the Ringer's Ironman.

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Just had a child, but loves the NBA playoffs and so wired from Cole Anthony Knight that he had to join us. Was that a better Orlando win or a more fun Atlanta loss for you?

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Wow. It's Goldsberry. If I heard that correctly, that was Cerruti saying that win was a double win because Trey Young was so annoying in that game. Orlando might not trade for him this summer. So we won twice. That's how I interpreted that.

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It's a tough one. Well, it's one of those things that'll go into the offseason now and it'll be a narrative. And I think he was going to be in trade rumors anyway for a bunch of different reasons. And... You know, I remember Paul Pierce at this point with the Celtics in the mid-2000s. Things weren't going great.

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There's a couple moments of this game where I was wondering if Golden State was actually going to blow this and be in this bizarre scenario of losing to San Antonio, losing in overtime in the last day of the season, then blowing this Memphis game at home, and now all of a sudden fighting for their lives just to play OKC, who just won 68 games, but instead they escaped. Now they play Houston.

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And then he had that thing with the Indiana where he showed up for the press conference with his head bandaged. And it was like, oh, man, is he trying to get traded? What's going on here? They ended up keeping him. But we've seen different players hit this specific point. And it does feel like fork in the road now for Trey. He was 2018 draft. This is seven years. You know...

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I don't know what you get for him. Is it like a jaw type of level for a trade? Is it a level below? Is LaMelo too high? Do you try to do your version of that DeJounte Murray, like some picks and an asset? Just get out of it? What would you do, Kirk?

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That might be a coaching thing, though. I don't even know if that's a roster thing. It would be nice if the offense evolved even a tiny bit.

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Kirk, all right, you're in the front office. Everybody gets together and you have the Trey Young conversation. And the problem with the Trey Young conversation, the stats are there. And the conference finals thing is the thing that screws it up because you can't say good stats, bad team guy because he made the conference finals.

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And you probably have to go back and really look through, well, how'd they make the conference finals? What happened? And then you have to really analyze that goofy Sixers series, which was the end of Ben Simmons' career. It was a shortened season. And how do you...

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How do you judge, was this just a fluke or are we not giving him enough credit because he was one of the four teams left in a playoffs? I don't know what the answer is.

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Yeah, and I just wonder who the team is. So, Suri, do you have Anthony Black and a contract? No? You're hanging up.

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I mean, Sacramento can never be ruled out. With their last 12 years track record, you can't rule them out. The San Antonio would be the wild card for me. I know. For people who aren't watching this on video, Kurt just made a face and leaned backwards in disgust when I mentioned that.

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It's not exactly like, oh. It might get to a point where if you feel like you can get him for 50 cents on the dollar, his contract's not that much longer. I don't know.

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Yeah, plus with the apron, everything's harder, like moving contracts, you know, everything. Suri, did you want to make the case for Orlando in round one against the Celtics?

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Yeah, you bet your best chance is almost on the road in Boston where the Celtics just seem to fall asleep every home game for whatever reason.

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, we're going to talk play-in, NBA playoffs, plus Nick Khan from WWE next. We're also brought to you by The Ringer.

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Listen, it's a couple years of Orlando having good games against Celtics. My dad, of course, who's always skies falling in his text sometimes as we get to our playoff time, he really wanted Atlanta to win because he's like, Orlando makes me nervous. Sorry. We've had trouble against them over and over. Now, this is with Suggs. Suggs was always a big piece of that is the difference.

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Plus, it seems like the Celts are happy. Kirk, Celtics sweep, plus 126 on FanDuel. 4-1 is plus 168. And Cerruti's two-game prediction, that would net you plus 610. Celtics 4-2.

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It's one of those weird subplots of this entire Warriors run dating back to 2013. abject sloppiness at the worst possible moments in crunch time. And they somehow won four titles and go down as one of the most memorable teams of this century. And yet, at the end of games, they're up three. And I'm watching and just expecting something stupid's going to happen.

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Four for 21 from three iconic. It's a box score right out of the, uh, early 2010s. Um, all right. So Rudy, I guess we're natural rivals for, uh, for the next two weeks. I look forward to it. All right. Thanks for popping on later. Uh, Kirk, You did a shooting column on TheRinger.com. Yeah. A great website.

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And you gave out the shooting excellence awards, including the Wardell Award for Best Shooter of the Year, Steph Curry, which is the number one award and the most important. That's like your best picture, basically. Is anyone ever going to win this award other than Steph Curry? How did you frame this in your mind mentally? Could somebody win it when he's still playing?

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Could somebody come and take it? And if somebody did take it, who would that be?

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I looked at his stuff long and hard because I was debating. I gave him a test drive for that last first team all NBA spot. I gave him a test drive for fifth spot MVP. So I was looking at all the stats and First of all, he won the three point title this year for three pointers made, which Curry has owned. If Curry's healthy, he just says he just wins that every year.

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As long as he plays 68 games, you know, 65, whatever. Edwards hit 320. Malik Beasley at 319. Curry at 311. And nobody else had over 266. But. I don't think people realize how many threes he takes and makes.

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People like us realize it, but I don't think, if you ask the average person on the street who made more threes this year, Steph Curry or Anthony Edwards, I don't think anyone would say Anthony Edwards. So you have that, but he also took, he made 415 free throws, which was sixth. He took 496 free throws, which was fifth. So he's moved into that kind of late 2010s James Harden.

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Curry's going to dribble the ball off his foot. Somebody's going to lob a pass across court that's going to get picked. A dumb foul. It's for a team that fancies itself on high IQ stuff. And they do have... You know, an unbelievable basketball IQ. They sure do dumb sloppy things at the worst possible times. It's really, really, really odd. I don't get it.

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A little bit of that. But then he's also doing all this other stuff, including the defense and the athleticism. And I just, I was really, really happy with where we landed in this Ant journey. And now we have this Lakers series where we're going to find out, can he go up a little bit of a level here?

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I couldn't believe that he wasn't the favorite for six million of the year. I voted for him. I voted for him over Pritchard. I watched, I obviously watched the Celtics the most. I thought Pritchard had an excellent, excellent season off the bench, but Beasley, you know, the Celtics could survive whether Pritchard was good or not.

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He could go one for eight for three points and it just wouldn't matter. The Pistons couldn't survive Beasley having a bad game against a good team. Like they actually really, really needed him. He was probably, you know, Durin is their second most important player, I think, because of all the rim protection, rebounding, the alley-oop stuff that he gives them.

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And Beasley's probably, it's probably 2A Durin and 2B Beasley. Um, but with the shot and I've talked about it before, but the shocking thing was how they would run offense for him and big spots in the games. Like they, they really would come out of timeouts and be like, we're running this play and you're going to like the same way you would treat Clay Thompson. So to me, it wasn't close.

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I thought I, I didn't think it was close. I thought he was clearly sixth man of the year.

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Yeah, he, you know, one of the things that screws up the six man stuff when you look at it is some guys will have these games as starters and their stats will jump way up when they're the starter. And then when they're the reserve, the stats are different. You can look at all this stuff with the splits. Easily, it didn't really matter.

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He was just as impactful no matter how many minutes he got when he brought him off the bench. He started 18 games. Stats were like four points better, but it wasn't dramatic.

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Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Loose with the ball. A little loose. Yeah.

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Nas Reed had a couple of those where he started and had big games. Beasley was... You know, he averaged 16 points a game and I don't think he played. Did he play? I'm looking at it now. Sorry. 27.8 minutes. I don't know. Shot 41.6 from three. Took nine a game like that. These are crazy numbers for a six man. It's one of the better six man seasons we've had.

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I forgot we're not done with Atlanta yet. We have them again. We have them again no matter what. We're saying goodbye to them for the year, but no, we're going to have them again.

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By the way, I noticed the same thing with Miami because that line, I think it's like Chicago by one. I loved... I loved Orlando tonight. And I also like Golden State. But they were favored by like 6-7. It's not amazing. I think the two favorites are going to win. Tomorrow's a harder match of games. And I really like the Chicago thing. I think they're fun to watch.

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But the same thing, you made the key point with Miami. The numbers are pretty good for them. just his last 15 and bam, I think finally looked like bam and had a couple of real kick-ass games, but in jet, you know, a couple of times they played teams that are trying to tank stuff like that. But, um, I, I just would be surprised if they lost tomorrow. I'll say that.

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Giddy's hurt and playing, which that part makes me nervous, where he's questionable, but he's going to play it. I don't like that.

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By the way, the other one, I refuse to make a pick. But if you actually forced me to make a pick, I'd probably take Sacramento. Yeah. I don't feel great about it, though.

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I didn't realize. Oh, Dirk Nowitzki. I forgot. Oh, yeah, that's right. The MVP who won a title.

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But he also, that doesn't include that he was like 42% from three?

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But you bet you... I mean, some of the stats with him, like that shooting stat you just mentioned, there's like nine different things you could say about his season from either using counting stats or advanced stats. that are just dumbfounding. I mean, nobody had, I'm pretty sure nobody had been in the top five in points, assists, and rebounds per game in the same season.

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And he's in the top three. But he was also second in steals. And then he also shot 42% from three. And then he was also like, it was like a 19 point difference when he was on or off the court offensively for them. It's just like, you start going through this stuff and it was like, he did eight things that just don't happen ever.

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Well, let me big picture on Golden State, a team that I was really bullish on. And this will be this is now prison of the moment, Bill. This is my time of year. This is when I really shine overreacting over and over again and trying not to react. But I think Golden State's lineup stuff is a little alarming for a team that I thought really had a chance to win two, three straight rounds.

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Two, by the way, yeah, A plus candidates. This is not a, I have to talk myself into an MVP player.

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Did you vote for the Ringer 100? I can't remember. No, I didn't do it. It's too tense for you? Well, I sent my last list and It's interesting. So 100 players. I obviously took it seriously and really tried to rank everyone correctly and put time into it. OKC had seven of the top 96 for me. They had number two, 17, 18, 62, 65, 79, and 96.

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Because I put Kaysan Wallace in my top 100 because I think he's unbelievable. Denver had one, 41, 60, and 78. And Jamal's not even in the top 40 for me at this point just because he's been so erratic this year. Even when he starts playing well, then he gets some dumb injury again. The league is so deep.

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You start comparing him to somebody like Desmond Bain tonight who's had a really good season and showed up when it really mattered. But anyway, the point is I thought that was interesting. This one jumped out at me too. I had seven Houston guys in my top 100. 31, 43, 72, 73, 81, 83, and 95. It's not nothing. And then you look at Golden State, six, 28, 40, and we're done. It's three guys.

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You know, so that's not everything, but it is kind of instructive when you start looking at talent in a big picture of guys, teams compared to other teams. And one team has seven top 100 guys, the other team has three. Now, granted, one of them is number six.

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Kaminga is now just out. Yeah. Not only is he out, but you look at the box score today. Curry led the team in rebounds. That doesn't seem ideal. They got killed on the boards. Edie's size, I thought, what did Edie finish with? 17 rebounds. Edie's size really bothered them in this game. And it still feels like a team that's kind of... grasping for stuff.

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Yeah, I mean, they're bringing in Tari Eason for 17, 18 minutes a game. And it's just like, you're unleashing him for those minutes. And it's like, oh, let's put him and Thompson together. Watch this. Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to do. I hate any series taking the team that doesn't have the best player. The Warriors clearly have the best player.

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And then when you saw how Jimmy could flip the switch tonight with all the time off between the games. But the Warriors, the fact that Steve doesn't seem to really trust what his roster is makes me nervous. Because that felt like he had a handle on it three weeks ago. It really did. I felt that Laker game when they beat the Lakers a couple weeks ago. And I was like, oh, this team knows who it is.

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They know who their guys are. And now we're heading into the playoffs and I'm not sure they know. So I guess we'll find out.

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We're going to go. Unless you got any University of Texas updates for us.

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All right. Great to see you. Your beard's looking as good as ever. Nice little salt and peppery. Really nice. Thank you, brother. Good to see you. Thanks for staying up with me. All right, my friend Nick Khan is here. He is the president of WWE. They have WrestleMania coming up. Do you want to hear my WrestleMania 40 years ago story?

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I didn't have a lot going on. No girlfriends to be seen. And the fact that they had a WrestleMania pay-per-view with Hulk Hogan and Mr. T was in the running for biggest thing that happened to me in 1995, maybe not related to the Celtics or Boston team. Couldn't wait. Felt like there was a real moment where wrestling fans were kind of shoved to the side. We were kind of at the kids' table.

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We were the booger eaters. We weren't taken seriously. And then all of a sudden MTV and Hogan, and it's like, no, no, no. Now it's our time. The wrestling fans matter. But you were also a wrestling fan, so you remember it.

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We somehow had cable in Connecticut because I was going to high school in Connecticut.

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We somehow were able to order it on cable and watch it that way. But I don't think everyone had that option. Some people had to go to weird closed circuit places and stuff.

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So what was the crowd the most fired up for at the LA Sports Arena?

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Yeah, the closed circuit era is so hard to explain to young people. I saw Duran Leonard won. I saw Hearns Leonard, the Boston Garden closed circuit. So that was what, November 1981, something like that? Yes. Saw that in the garden and just about everybody was rooting for Hearns and I was outraged.

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Yeah, and like a really crappy screen, and it wasn't even, it wasn't like it is now. Like if you did like a watch party now.

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Well, I want to talk about WrestleMania in a second, but since the last time you came on, we actually finished a Mr. McMahon documentary for Netflix. It was a multi-year odyssey. I still can't believe it ran. Six episodes, six hours. A big history of WWE. Vince was prominently involved. You guys were, Vince was gone at that point, but the whole situation was pretty weird.

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And if Jimmy wasn't awesome in that first half, I think this game could have slipped away from them. But the big question for me, I was on Zach's pod on Monday. I didn't even realize that Kaminga got benched in that last game. I thought he was hurt because why wouldn't they play him? They need somebody like him. This game was just a Kaminga game. This was an athletic, physical.

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And I think pulling it off was one of the craziest achievements I've ever been involved with. I still can't believe it actually aired. It felt like it was dead seven times?

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So what was the response like internally? And like, you're in charge of WWE, you're doing this giant documentary that's, you know, it's warts and all of a pretty controversial guy who's involved in a big legal proceeding. And did you get people going like, why are you doing this? Why hasn't this been killed?

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What was the kind of what kind of feedback did you get from people on it?

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Yeah. It certainly ran the gamut of emotions. I was really proud of how it was done. And I thought it was the hardest thing I've ever been involved with just to make. Especially when the story kept changing.

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Yeah. These things are documents. I feel the same way about the Celtics thing we're doing right now, where it's like... You hope that 20 years from now, people will watch it. It'll be some sort of snapshot of what happened.

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I mean, that's different because these big-ass documentaries spread over a bunch of years. There's a certain level of expectations that come with them now, and you kind of have to exceed those. People just assume they're going to be infomercials or they're not going to be good, and they're prone to not want to watch it over a while. You almost have to convince them, no, no, this is a good one.

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They needed his rebounding. They needed size. And they still buried him. So I guess he's just out. I don't get it.

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Yeah. We wanted to do like, just have an interview, a hundred people tell the story of the city as it intersected with the team and you know, I think in trying to do these and we felt that same way when we did the Vince one, you don't just want to tell the story. You want to also be levitating above it, trying to actually say something. I think that's when it gets hard.

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And like in wrestling, there's been so many documentaries at this point, just about everybody's been done and they've been, kind of varying degrees of quality and the ones that seem to, um, resonate the most there's is like two different audiences for it. There's like the diehard wrestling fans who like, like dark side of the ring and all like the nitty gritty stuff.

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And they're just going to eat those up. And those are basically for them only. And then the question with the wrestling stuff is how do you, how do you get like our wives to watch? How do you get like our kids to watch? How do you get a much bigger audience for it than just the people that were going to watch it anyway?

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He is, but he's, you know all the stages. He's in the stage now where the next stage will be like age, what, 24? When all of a sudden you come back hard. So he's in the I'm too cool for this now. Yeah, we're going to have to, you might have to pile drive him.

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Yeah, he's too cool for it now. I understand. But the thing is, he's not too cool. That's the thing.

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It's the cycle of being a wrestling fan. So now he's here, and then eventually he'll be back here.

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Well, and then Sonny also, when we saw him, He deceived us on what the WrestleMania was going to be. So you've already trained him to swerve. People trust little kids with information. We thought we were getting inside info for how WrestleMania was going to play out. And what he told us wasn't true. I really respected it.

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I wouldn't believe that. But that's what happened. He told us Cena was winning Royal Rumble. And we were like, wow, Nikon's kid. He's got to get that kid in line. He told us the wrong thing, or he told us the right thing, and then it turned out to be the wrong thing.

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So that was the biggest decision you guys have made with a character in the company. I don't even know since when. This was somebody that you protected for 20 years. You never turned him over. He was always a good guy. Even as the crowd, he's polarizing and is 50-50. But that was the cool thing. But he always tried to stand for something. He was a role model. It helped.

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The thing I always heard was the merchandise made it so much easier to just sell a bunch of stuff because there was always this next generation of kids coming. And then you finally turned him right near the end out of nowhere.

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Because when they did it at WCW with Hogan, That was kind of a form of desperation. Hulkamania had petered out with WWE and then was petering out with WCW again and they flipped it at the perfect time and just jump started it.

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Yeah, because we went to the show in LA the day before the fires, which seems like it was seven years ago. Yep. And you guys had your first Netflix show. There was a popularity with him that it felt like a little nostalgia tinged with. We kind of know this is the end. And it was probably the most tied into him that I felt like I had seen a crowd in a long time.

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Where people were like, we love this guy. We know, we can see the finish line now. And it was one of, that was the two legacies from that night were that, and then Hogan just got booed out of the arena, which I can't imagine you guys ever thought would happen, right?

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podcast network where we put up a new rewatchables on monday night we did can't hardly wait which was the height of the teen high school movies in the late 1990s it was me and joanna robinson you can watch that as a video podcast on spotify you can also watch that on the ringer movies youtube channel if you miss celtic city on hbo and on max we put up episode seven which was the uh

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We always talk about wrestling. It's like the NBA where you have like draft classes or eras or generations and the talent kind of ebbs and flows. And I can't tell. I think that the company right now seems like it's as successful as it's ever been. Right. And it seems like wrestling, at least for you guys, the WWE version of it is the most successful it's ever been.

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I don't know how much of that is. How you've handled the behind the scenes the last five years, you and Triple H and some others. Or is it just a talent boom? Obviously it's both, but what's the seesaw? Like being smart behind the scenes versus like, if you had this much talent, it's probably gonna happen anyway, right? Like what's the seesaw?

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And Roman's crew, I think, was another one. That was one of the best crews. That's another 50, 60 years of wrestling, crews. You know, like the four people, the five people. And it's like, oh, these guys might turn on each other. Oh, no, they're fine. No, they might turn on each other. That's the legacy of wrestling.

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It's like, wait, is there anything special about being in this place?

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They kind of lost the narrative fast. Yeah, no, it seems like this is the best run, but you still needed the main guy. And it felt like the big thing this decade was just getting Cody Rhodes and first of all, stealing him from your competition, but then also seeing that you could build him as the face of the company, which I got to be honest, I didn't see. I thought he could be one of the guys.

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I didn't realize he could be... the center of everything, which I think he is.

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Yeah, I guess you could say Butler played 39 minutes. And maybe they just don't want to play Butler with Curry and Kaminga. And I think the lineups were, the plus minus stuff with those three together were pretty bad for most of the season. And maybe they just made a decision. If we're going to play Draymond, he played 30 today, but he's a foul trouble on Butler 38.

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To his credit, he's never really talked about what happened with those guys.

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He moved on and he's in a better spot. It felt like it probably got a little credit grabby over there. That was just knowing nothing, just from reading and following the breadcrumbs and reading stuff like Meltzer's Newsletter and weird shit like that, where you're just like, ah, it seems like there's a lot of people in this kitchen right now claiming that they cooked the pot roast.

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Compliments are currency. Another Dave Jacoby. James Babydoll Nixon, too. That's one of his mantras.

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Nice compliment. Nice currency. We're at the Masters. It's just a slew of, it's like watching the anchorman fight with all the anchors, except nobody's fighting. Everybody's trying to get along, but it's all these different people with competing agendas being like, hey.

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Or just hire former clients. Just put them... Put them on camera. Put them in. Or like CM Punk, who for some reason you were always kind of involved in. That was one of those where I was like, Nick's nuts. Like this guy's... this guy's a cancer. Like, you can't let this guy, and it's been, seems like it's been great.

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that's just not a lot of room left for Kaminga. But then you look at the rest of it, like Heald played 12, Peyton played 19, Looney played nine, Post played 21 and was pretty good. I just, for this specific game, if I'm Memphis, I'm like, hey, that's great. Please don't play Kaminga because he's somebody that could carry some offense. I mean, when you have 75 points for two guys,

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I think, because I certainly feel this way about myself back in the earlier days, I think when people have trouble dealing with somebody who's not good or doing a bad job or has no, like, and for some reason back in the day, I would take that really personally. It would make me upset. I would try to fix it. I would get all wrapped up in it. And I think as you get older, you're like, you know what?

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Most people are terrible. And once you kind of realize that, it's like, I just got to navigate around. It'll be fine. Once you realize that it's, it's a different, different way of living. And I, for whatever reason, it took me until my mid forties to realize it.

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Coming in to sit in on a meeting and have some bad ideas and screw everything up. Right. And then tell us to lead with the Lakers.

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Yeah, if you take incompetence personally, it's probably not a great way to be.

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It's the same thing. Like club coaches in youth sports. It's the same thing. That's why when you find somebody that's actually really good, you treasure it. No question. Wow, this teacher my daughter has is amazing. I'm so happy this person exists.

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No, it is true. Yeah, so it's been... I think CM Punk probably got a little... a little older, maybe put some stuff in perspective, tried a couple things, had a couple failures.

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And one of the other big things you did was splitting up WrestleMania, which I'd like to credit you at least partially with that one. I don't know. You might deserve all the credit, but that was one of those things. That was an idea that was sitting there for years. The event was so long. You just, you almost needed like an IV for eight hours. My son would never move. He was in that stage.

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You're like, I'm not going to the bathroom. I'm not going anywhere. And it was just these terminally long shows and the audience would die over the course of the show.

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And, you know, Peyton is your third leading scorer who just had wide open shots the entire game. Not great. I don't... You know, on the one hand, first round's great for Golden State because of the breaks between the games, right? It's the same thing for the Lakers. The older teams, first round is where you want to be, where you might play Saturday, Tuesday, Friday, Sunday.

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Well, especially the crowd is... Dude, they're on a rollercoaster doing the thing. They're excited. They're intense. Like, you know, do you have breaks? It's really anything longer than four hours I think is really hard, right?

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That was another thing. This is why I get mad with the NBA. You actually looked at the schedule and were trying to figure out weekends that would be advantages for you guys.

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The good news, it's the only mistake college football made. They've nailed everything else. It's been perfect with having these giant, ridiculous conferences and teams that are 3,000 miles apart. When kids are supposed to be in school flying cross country.

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It's one thing I love about UFC. It's fast, dude. It's so much easier to follow for casual fans like me. I just want to watch the pay-per-views. I watch every pay-per-view. I love UFC. I'm not going to watch 52 weeks a year. I'll listen to Ariel's podcast sometimes.

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I'll read some stuff occasionally, but for the most part, I'll fully admit, I'm a little better than a casual fan, but I'm a casual fan, and it's so much easier to follow when there's not 95 fucking belts.

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Yeah, number three is fighting number eight, and I know what the featherweight division is. Cool. Totally.

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Well, so baseball did this almost out of necessity, where they were like, we have a major problem. We have to fix this. And there's other leagues. Football is just a monolith at this point. They can do whatever they want. They're going to go to 18 weeks. you know, whenever they want, it's going to work.

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And basketball is the one that it feels like is going to have to start to get a little more innovative with the schedule and everything. You always look at stuff like, why not? Why can't we do this? Like, all right, I get that we did it that way, but why wouldn't we do it this way?

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You just have all the stuff. But on the other hand... It just feels like some of the teams in the West are still going up, whereas the Warriors have kind of leveled off and now are completely dependent on having big games from Steph and or Jimmy. And they're going to this Houston series where they're going to be able to throw just a shitload of dudes at Curry.

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I don't understand why people that run big things like that don't all just think that there's such a fear of, oh, well, that's the way we've always done it. We can't move from that. That's what the fans are used to. I don't feel that way at all, do you?

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Would you ever have taken your son to a Dodger game with the old rules, your nine-year-old son? It was like, make me home at 1.30 in the morning.

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That's a tough one because on the one hand, every baseball fan makes the pilgrimage to Cooperstown once. But you don't do it 10 times.

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No, it feels, you're right. There should be a big version of it. But you guys, the WWE Hall of Fame was an idea that's sitting there forever. That hasn't happened yet.

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I want the actual, I can walk into it. I can go around. There's videos. There's, I mean, maybe you could be the ones that finally did the Pantheon idea that I've always wanted to do with the levels. If you're five level Hall of Fame and you get to the top level and it's just like Hogan, San Martino, like all the great greats.

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Hogan has to be in it. Sam Martino. John Cena. Ric Flair. Yeah, I get that. Cena's probably the shaky spot. I think Hogan and Flair have to be in it.

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Talking five years, you know, I think rock potentially, but rock is another one where the actual apex wasn't long enough. Like if you're going to hall of famer, the career has to be part of it. Like, like flair and Hogan, how long they lasted was amazing. And even San Martino wasn't as long as those guys. Who do you, who do you think it is?

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Roman's thinking, yeah, I mean, he's definitely in the conversation now.

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And we already saw it with Amin Thompson two Sundays ago and try to wear him down. They also have a bunch of wings to throw at Butler. which brings back the Kaminga thing. But it feels like Kaminga is now in the attic with the Christmas ornaments and we're just not going to see him again.

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Rock didn't have his extra five years when he was just kicking ass, like basically Hogan's late 80s.

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I'm not just saying that as like a WWE homer. WCW never had anything like that.

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His feud with Hogan, I mean, with Vince, when that really hit, there's nothing like that. It rejuvenated the entire company.

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Well, the other thing with Hogan and Stone Cold, it's the only two times they shifted the actual popular culture. right? Hogan, definitely in the eighties. And he's part of this whole patriotism boom that's like Sly Stallone and Schwarzenegger and like, we're Russians are the bad guys. And we were like big USA. Like he was right in the middle of that. And then Stone Cold, right.

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As we tried to cover this in the Vince doc a little bit, um, right. As something was shifting in America and people were just getting edgier in general. And he just felt like he was one of the people, him and DX, um, Felt like they were at the forefront of something. NWO was like that too, but he was at the top of it. Of like, it's okay to be the anti-hero.

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When you think about him as an anti-hero, which hadn't really happened in wrestling before. I mean, there are pieces of it in different guys, but nobody had been like, I'm going to just own this. And I would have been a heel 10 years ago, but now everyone's rooting for me. Then it moves into the Tony Soprano. I was just going to say that. That's kind of what TV became in the 2000s.

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Do you feel like you could argue now there would be a moment to tap into that, but where the UFC seems to be the one that's tapping into this side of the universe, right? You could see all the people that were at UFC the other night, and it's been this side that was one of the reasons Trump won the election again.

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But this whole movement basically against the far left, but wrestling has avoided it this time around. Yeah.

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And UFC definitely has an attitude of, we don't judge. We don't judge over here in UFC. Come in. If you like watching people in the octagon, welcome aboard.

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Yeah, like Jerry Buss. We don't judge. The Lakers owner does his own stuff. We don't care.

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Well, we had Simpson and Bruckheimer. There's like a million of them.

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I'm just talking from a combat standpoint, but you don't have the boxing piece yet. But then, I mean, the last time you were on the pod, we talked about this and this is your favorite sport. And it feels like, just me knowing nothing from afar, it feels like there's a boxing opportunity slash momentum for something, for somebody to corral at least a big piece of it.

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But nothing's happened with it yet. You can announce whatever, but you still need... To me, it's like, okay, they're going to do this. That means they're going to acquire something, but you haven't acquired the something yet.

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So this is all going to be one-off stuff, not like something... That potentially has a chance to be UFC, WWE.

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Because I saw the first thing and I'm like, all right, they're just kind of planting a flag, but nothing is actually happening. But now you're saying something's going to happen.

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Yeah, because why wouldn't Houston be able to do the same thing that Memphis just did with Edie and Jackson when they put their double big lineup? I would think that would be a nightmare for the Warriors.

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The Saudis, I think, have shown a little bit of the blueprint because the cards are better. And the card they had in, what was it, February was awesome. Even though they had, you know, one fight fallout last minute. They had to fly out of shape. Bacoli, my guy. Hey, you're sad.

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Listen, Bacoli got paid. He took one hit. His trainer's like, we're done.

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That sounds pretty enticing. How has Netflix changed your business? The scope of it?

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Were you surprised that you, it seems like every week you're trending as like the number one TV show for 36 hours.

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Yeah, I think talking to the Netflix people, I think the pleasant surprise for them was people watching it, like the people in Europe waking up.

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Sometimes that's coming on, they're asleep, but waking up and watching them getting these pockets of viewership from when either people woke up or pockets of viewership from people they didn't expect would get up early to watch it or stay up late and just watching how the different parts of the world interacted with it.

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I know that there's some areas that they were probably hoping maybe you had a star that you could develop that would be exciting for that specific area.

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Well, there's a line you don't want to cross, which has been crossed a couple times, where it's like, we really want to get this part of the world going and watch this. And then if the person doesn't have the chops, it gets a little dicey.

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So if you were going to create stars from scratch and you could pick any part of the world, I would assume India and Brazil would be two big ones.

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So anyone listening from those countries, get your shit together.

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Not great. Better. Any other big predictions for the year for WWE?

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Is it better to even have stuff on a streamer like that versus like, how do you, your YouTube, you guys were one of the first people to blow out a YouTube presence. And now you have what, 15 years of YouTube videos at this point, one of the biggest channels anyone has.

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Like, is it just sometimes you think the way YouTube has grown and skyrocketed, does it just make more sense to double down on that?

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Isn't that funny how different that is when they launched the network? What was that, 10 years ago?

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I think that was when I did the pod with Triple H. Right around there. And it was the right move at the right time to do that. And it was like, we're going to go on demand. We'll own our rights. People will pay for this. We'll make more from it this way. Now the mindset is completely different. We want as many people to see our stuff as humanly possible. And we want to be tied to platforms.

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Maybe the biggest big ever. Now Apple probably leads the way with bigs where they get 30% on apps.

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What were you going to do? Then you wouldn't be able to show what you wanted.

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I want to talk about the TV business in one second. Yes, sir. Do you feel like you have a rival? Because like two years ago... could make the case last year. It seemed like now, now it just seems like you guys are all powerful again. And AEW is not a rival in the same way. Their kind of moment, just, I have no dog in the race.

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I don't really care, but it's just from a, from afar, it seems like their moment came and gone and they're like just firmly number two now.

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Well, and this is Houston-Golden State, just a classic old school NBA playoff matchup. The young guys against the older guys, right? It's not like Golden State's washed up, but they're older and their guys have a lot of playoff years, a lot of playoff memories. But it's, you know, this is the 87 Celtics against the Pistons. This is the 91 Bulls against the 91 Pistons.

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Well, your biggest issue is sometimes you don't want too much talent because you only have so many spots to put people and you end up just kind of wasting people.

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I'm not saying bench people, but you sign somebody and then within a couple of weeks, you know, they're barely being used because you have too many people.

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Not us. Not awesome. From a TV standpoint, you're one of the world's most astute media watchers. And we always end up talking about ESPN when we do this stuff. But since the last time we talked... Netflix is in sports in a huge way, as you personally know. Amazon's in. We had this whole basketball deal shake out and it feels like everything is moving toward streaming stuff.

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And the networks are kind of holding on for dear life and overpaying to keep up the fight. Most notably ESPN, which I think has had a really rocky couple years. And for what they paid with basketball, especially, There's probably going to be some repercussions with that in other parts.

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And it seems like they've moved behind like big talent contracts, a couple of big right fees, and then try to cut costs elsewhere, almost like a movie where you're like, we want to get our four guys for the poster and we'll get a really good director, but maybe we can save money over here. What do you see the future of the networks that you used to work with?

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Like we've just, we've seen this over and over again over the years. The 00 Lakers against the 00 Blazers. And in this case, you know, I thought Houston would be favorite in the series. Because they're the two seed. They have home court in game seven. They just kicked their butt a couple, 10 days ago. What do you think the odds are on FanDuel because they came out?

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the very depressing 1990s, including Rick Pitino, who's in the documentary, and Ryan Russillo. You've heard him on this podcast, but he was in there as well. You can check out the first seven episodes of Celtic City on Max. So there you go. Coming up on this podcast, I'm going to talk to Kurt Goldsberry about the playing games tonight, Tuesday night.

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Well, they they missed on UFC for a while and then belatedly got into it. And that's been OK, although those rights are coming up, right?

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Boxing, Hard Knocks, documentaries. They had a foothold of something.

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It's a weird one because I think that thing that's changed from maybe 15 years ago was the sense of like, we also want to do great stuff. Like there was a bar for... we at least a couple times a year want to be looked at as a place that did an awesome thing or like, you know, inspired somebody in some way or did some piece of content that could really impact people.

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Yeah. Well, I think they've just kind of We're showing games. We got games and highlights and that's kind of what we are for the most part. And, you know, they'll still do some other stuff, but maybe when to have ambition like that, when you have a company the size of that, I think maybe it's too hard to juggle everything.

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You've been corrupted by Amy Howe a tiny bit to look at the odds.

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So you think for ESPN, it's the grind of, you know, where Amazon and Netflix can just parachute in and out of stuff that they want. ESPN has a 365 day responsibility still at this point to have stuff. And I think they have way more competitors than they used to. I remember when FS1 got there, you know, in 2013, it was like, here comes FS1. And ESPN's attitude was like, how dare you?

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And I thought the same way. I was like, we're going to crush these guys. Come get us. Now there's seven, eight different people with real money coming at you. And it's really hard to stay on top.

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Well, you remember the FS1 thing because you made a lot of money just parlaying the two networks.

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You remember that as the heyday. Those were the clients who made a lot of money. Nick Kahn, the greatest year in Nick Kahn's life. It's like, oh, you're like at a school auction getting the two drunk parents bidding. Do I hear 20K for the trip to Mexico? 22!

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I think that's going to move. And we did, Russell and I did the live Clippers Nuggets line on Sunday and it was way higher than now. It's like, I think the Clippers are favored now, but before the Nuggets were like minus 160, that Rockets line is going to drop because all the dudes that they can throw at Curry, home court, youth, the fact that Curry's banged up

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I think people, it's like anything else. As the years pass, people remember the best 10 or 12 and think.

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Oh, there you go. Um, yeah, I don't know. Well, so the, the, uh, WB, all that stuff, any predictions, any predictions for anything?

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I don't know. You always have the, the, uh, Warner brothers, like everything that they're trying to like work around the fringes now with, uh, they didn't get MBA, but now they're, I can't tell. There was a big piece about them this week.

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I read it. It was one of those, I have a lot of information going in all these different directions and the reader is just going to have to figure out what to make of this. But the basic premise was Warner Brothers stuck between these two worlds, this world that used to exist and this world that's about to happen, kind of feeling like that maybe is a strategy.

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I thought that was pretty interesting. I don't know if I agreed with it.

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I can't wait to explain DirecTV to my great-grandkids 50 years from now. Yeah. So they used to come in, they would put a dish on top of our house. They would give us a receiver. If you canceled DirecTV, you would have to mail the receiver back or it would cost you $500. Nobody would answer if there was an issue. I can't wait to- Bill, how about this part of it? It's a documentary.

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Can I just put you on hold for one second, sir? Please don't, no. Please, no. Don't put me on hold. How about when they'd hang up on you after a while? And then you're just starting the process over again. One of the happiest days of my life was moving to streamer stuff full-time and not having DirecTV.

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It was like one of the first things I ever splurged on. Correct. Yeah.

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I can get all the football games, and then I get all the basketball games.

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The fact that Jimmy hasn't played like this kind of level of basketball over and over again in a couple years where you're just like, hey, Jimmy, we need you now for 39, 40 minutes a night. And the lack of like that third scorer. I don't know who I'm picking yet. I'm going to wait till Thursday. I really want to analyze it. But to me, this series is an absolute toss up.

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Who buys, who becomes the next Agra successor? Who takes over? Who's your money on?

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Interesting, because they have the four, it's really three candidates coming from inside. Matt Bellany wrote a really good piece for Puck, our guy Matt. I read it.

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Oh, he's loaded. It's crazy. He's on TV shows now. He's doing great.

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Yeah, he's on the studio. But he had a whole piece about could Disney go after Sarandos? Which A, I was really jealous of. Great idea. I don't know how I just so mad that I didn't come up with that. B, really interesting idea. Like if you're going to do an outsider, why not do like a maverick outsider? And one of the things I was wondering was like, would I even want that?

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Would you want your successor to be somebody who would actually be a little more cutting edge maybe than you are? And maybe somebody that could reinvent some things and modernize your company in some different ways. I don't know. I thought that was fascinating. And then if you're Sarandos, would you want to do that? Are you already in the Disney of now? Do you even need to leave Netflix?

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Listen, algorithms don't lie. They don't lie. The algorithms are a window into your soul. It's like, do you like true crime documentaries where somebody got kidnapped and they couldn't find the killer for three episodes? I do. By the way, think about it. You're going to love this Gabby Petito doc. Totally.

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And I think the double big lineup and all the people that could throw a Curry are real advantages for Houston.

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I'm ready for Bundy again. They haven't done Bundy for five years.

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I don't know. I think I'm good with Dahmer for a while. Manson, I was like, I gave it a, you know, I like Manson stuff. Yeah. But it was one of those. It was like, all right. I don't know if How much I learned from that. But yeah, they're rerunning the hits now.

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You know what happened? I was just talking with Fennessey and Chris about this. COVID happened. It came out. It had its whole run through 2019. We were at Sundance. We did a live rewatchables of that movie. maybe beginning of February.

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And then it was about to have this whole run with the Oscars and, and, um, all the way through and it just would have moved. And then COVID happened and COVID messed everything up. That really did. Like convert, just people didn't have the same conversations about anything. So I always felt like that was weird. Cause it's, it has been five plus years since that movie came out. Phenomenal.

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There's probably something since then, but yeah, it's pretty rare.

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Yeah, that's when you have to really know the movie and fast forward.

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Bathroom Bra with Tony Soprano and Patricia Arquette is pretty brutal.

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All right, thing you're most excited about for WrestleMania this weekend, if you had to pick one thing.

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You think that's the number one, I haven't watched wrestling all year, but this is the one thing I should care about storyline?

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Maybe LeBron. We'll see with him. But these guys, they're such aberrations. You can't even...

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Right, you have Lakers Minnesota instead. Yeah, I'm coming Saturday. I'm going to be at the Triple Threat.

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I sure hope the Celtics. OKC is going to be really good. There's artists nobody believes in us building with them. The Clippers are excellent. Cleveland's really good. There's like five teams that could take it this year. It's unusual.

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Although, Knicks-Lakers would be bigger. It's not going to happen this year, but I think if you had New York-LA, the Knicks not having won since 73, and then generations of Knicks fans, that's probably bigger.

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No. OKC, maybe the Clippers. I'm not going to rule out the Lakers, but Clippers are in there, Lakers. OKC's a heavy favorite.

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I can't, I can't, I know all the Cooper fans are just nervous that the rug's going to get pulled out with Kawhi again, but they've been, they've been awesome. And then, you know, you can't count out Denver just because they have Jokic, but I can't see them winning three rounds in a row. But it says they're in a spot a little bit like you guys where they just have a shitload of talent right now.

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You just have these matchups where you're like, cool, Clippers, Denver. Sick. This is like, you know, four of the top 25 guys in the league are in this series.

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SGA, Giannis, Tatum, Luka. Tatum's sick. Luka's sick. Brunson. All right. Well, I'll see you in Vegas this weekend.

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All right. That's it. Thanks to Nick Khan. Thanks to Kurt Goldsberry. Thanks to Gahow and Jesse as well. Thanks to Saruti. And we will be back on Thursday. I have a fully fledged action-packed podcast for you. So I'll see you on Thursday.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Some punishing post-up stuff. Maybe somebody starts making a couple threes from the corner that you wouldn't totally expect. Yeah, the ceiling of their team is pretty high. I just don't know if they can hit it.

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It feels like we've had a lot of Warriors Rockets over the years. And it also feels like Steven Adams has played the Warriors in a few playoff series over the years. Dylan Brooks. There's weird history between these two teams and some of the players, which makes no sense because Houston's such a young playoff team. But if I was a Houston fan,

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I would look at tonight's game and be like, that's our blueprint. Big size on the boards. Try to play up and down and as chaotic as possible. Try to get them into where they were getting sloppy on offense. Use your athleticism. Try to wear these dudes down and hope at least one or two of your guys can get a little heat checky. Because if you catch the Rockets on the wrong day,

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Some awards stuff, some best shooter stuff, some playoff stuff. And then after that, Nikon President WWE. He comes on at least once a year. We talk wrestling, we talk UFC, boxing, and a bunch of sports media stuff. So that's the podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, taping this a little after 10 o'clock. Just watched Gold State hold off Memphis in the playing game.

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when it just looks like a rock fight for them for the last seven minutes. You're like, what's going on with this team? They're in a little bit of the same position as Golden State. with they're not positive who their best five is to close the game. It kind of depends on the situation. That always makes me nervous when I get to the playoffs. I kind of like to know who's my five, right?

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That's like the best thing about the Celtics and some of the best teams is the Cavs. Okay, see, they kind of know who their five is. But the other best thing that Golden State has going for them how much would the league want a golden state Lakers series in round two? Yeah.

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I wouldn't want to be Minnesota or Houston from a, Hey, like I'm just going into those series and be like, guys, we're probably not getting a ton of calls over the next two weeks. So just how are we going to handle this? Are we going to be cool with this? Cause that's probably how it's going.

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Well, how about if the Lakers beat Minnesota? and it's Houston, Golden State, and the other side, that's also a complete no-lose for the NBA because Houston Lakers would be an awesome series that has the same kind of bad blood all over the place, including Ime, who got kicked out of a game for calling LeBron a bitch. which was amazing.

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0.089

It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, the NBA season hitting full stride. Don't miss your chance to win some money with America's number one sports book. I mean, post-trade deadline. We had one of the craziest trade deadlines we've ever had in the history of the league. We have Fox on San Antonio, Luka on the Lakers, Kuzma on the Bucks. Kidding. The Cavs got better.

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It's too much money, there's no way he walks away. It's too much money. And this is, one thing I think people forget with the super duper famous celebrities, it's expensive to be a super duper famous celebrity. Because everywhere you go, you're paying for some private jet. In his case, he got divorced. As much money as he's made, he still needs way more money to sustain the lifestyle he does.

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And this is a $37.5 million check every year. He's not giving it up if he doesn't have to. It's not that hard of a job. It's 22 weeks. You study one game. You fly to the site. You have to keep in touch with the league a little bit, but not really. The stunning thing to me is Belichick.

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I, you know, this is not a midlife crisis because he's in his mid seventies, but even he was at Super Bowl, you know, he was at a couple of parties. He was walking around with his girlfriend. We saw him at the Fanatics party on Saturday. It's just surreal. This guy who was wearing this, you know, saggy hoodie on the sidelines who just could care less what anyone thought.

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You can put it in your phone. You can just listen to it. You can pull your phone out. You can watch it. You can go on your smart TV, your PS5, your Roku, your Apple TV, wherever you want to get it and watch it. on the Spotify app, whatever you want to do, knock yourself out. We are a video podcast from now on. I've had this podcast since 2007.

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Now he's in the Dunkin' Donuts commercial. With the girlfriend and this girlfriend's five years older than my daughter, there was a lot of like, what the fuck is going on with this guy's stuff in New Orleans over the weekend? And he was wearing all the rings.

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I'm really starting to wonder, this is a working theory, I'm not done with it yet, but like 75 and up are just all bets off. It's just like literally are all bets off. We're talking about owners. Cause in sports as fans, we have to deal with so many, so many old people. And we, we all have old people in our family. You could see what happens as they hit their seventies, then their eighties.

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And the judgment just gets a little, little nuts. And I just wonder with Belichick, like, I just, I can't believe some of this. I really find it hard to believe he's coaching North Carolina too. I get it. I understand why he did it. He didn't want to deal with owners anymore. He just wants to be a coach, all that stuff.

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But yet at the same time, he's seems like the celebrity aspect of this has become really appealing to him, which I never in a million years would have guessed.

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really strange relationship with his owner and just kind of kept his little, it's just basically in a cave, just, you know, going through film.

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I thought that was the weirdest subplot of the weekend. Um, then the funny, other funny thing that I immediately thought of you. We always call it the Friday news dump. What the Sixers did with the Joel Embiid information that they held and held and held and pushed out right after the Eagles won the Super Bowl. It was, I don't even, what do we call it? This is a new level of news dump.

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The Super Bowl title. We didn't want to bum out our city. This was our only chance to put this out. News dump. What is this?

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Why is there yellow tape and a door locked in the guest bathroom? Don't go in there.

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Unprecedented. The best news dump I think ever. I never ever remember a team pulling that off better. This crazy and beat article where it's like, yeah, I'm probably never going to be healthy again. I may need surgery. I shouldn't have played the Olympics. It turns out all that. It's like, oh my God, if they put that out on a Tuesday, it would have been like a 36 hour story.

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So year 18, it's basically now, I guess, a TV show, a very low budget TV show, as you can see with my hastily put together posters behind me. This podcast, really fun episode, Brian Curtis talking Superbowl, Luca Trade, Day 10, still going. And then Matt Bellany talking SNL 50, the Oscars, Lively versus Baldoni, most famous celebrity right now. A lot of good stuff. It's all next.

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I remember when I was working on my HBO show and we were doing like the test shows and it was like three weeks before the show launched and the guy who hired me to do the show, Michael Lombardo, and he was a huge advocate. And like three weeks before it was like, Friday afternoon, like 3.15 in the afternoon. And all of a sudden the stuff was out that he was out at HBO.

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And it was like, it was the only time I'd ever like really experienced the Friday news dump. It was so like perfectly calculated to just kind of sneak into the weekend with it. I was like, oh, this is how you do it.

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Because there's any other day or moment, this would have been the biggest Hollywood story. And they were like, this is happening right here. It still happens. We're going to take a break and then we'll come back and we got to talk about this incredible Maverick situation. All right. So Curtis, you're from Texas. You're a lifelong Cowboys fan.

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You're a lifelong Mavericks fan, maybe not as much, but a student of the Mavericks. They've been in your life. It's been a rocky road. There's been a lot of ups and downs. Everything peaked in 2011 with Dirk Nowitzki and probably winning the title, beating Wade and LeBron and Bosh. And it got weird over the course of the decade. They miraculously end up with Luka Doncic.

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Cuban sells the team last year. They just seem like if you're picking six franchises you want to be for the next 10 years, they would have been one of the six because they had Luka. Out of nowhere, they trade him in the most shocking, craziest trade in the history of the NBA. And just when you think, all right, maybe this will settle down. It just hasn't.

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It just keeps going up a level and up a level and up a level. What just your big picture watching this from afar? Holy shit. What is your take?

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Well, and then this next level would happen at the home game yesterday where people are getting booed and they're removing fans, which... Did you see the guy? Removing fans for not doing anything that bad. They're just, like, being fans. Like, I've never seen people get pulled out of the arena for the stuff that they got pulled out of last night. Have you?

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right it was almost like he flashed like he pulled it out out of a zipper absolutely and then they just got they were just dumping fans which is that's the worst thing you could do like it's not only did they do this crazy trade but they don't seem to understand like how angry it's made people and they don't really seem that interested in quelling the anger it's like they're just taking gasoline and pouring it on the fire you get escorted out of the arena for saying fire Nico for saying fire the GM yeah

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First, we couldn't lose them on the video podcast. Our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, editor-at-large of The Ringer, Brian Curtis is here. We're recording on a Tuesday morning, action-packed. A lot of Brian's interests are in play. And we're going to talk about the Mavericks and one of the craziest NBA situations in a long time. But we'll start quickly with the Super Bowl.

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Well, the other weird thing, and this kind of speaks to the incompetence behind the trade. How did they not anticipate any of this? Like they they're in Dallas, like Nico Harrison has been involved with the Mavericks longer than the owner. But he's there. He sees how popular Luka is. You go to any Mavericks game, it's Luka jerseys everywhere.

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I mean, I would say it's a top four fans wearing the jersey of the best player NBA city. It's just everywhere. And little kids everywhere, 77, just everywhere. There was a couple when I was going to the finals, there was a couple Dierks. A couple of old school Mav stuff. But for the most part, it's just Luca. It's like a fucking Luca army. This was their guy. They've had him since he was 18.

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They thought they were going to have him until he was 40. So to not anticipate that part of it is like, man, I really think this makes us slightly better. But my life is going to suck for the rest of the time I live here. Just that alone. And then you have Palenka on the other end going, yeah, we got to keep this quiet.

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Nobody can find out because he knows the moment it leaks out, the Mavs fans are going to basically riot. I've never seen anything like this from a hubris slash lack of awareness perspective. dating unless you go back to like the 80s when the league was, you know, everyone was on cocaine and the league was fucking crazy and the teams are worth $12 million and weird shit happened.

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Everyone was saying this has never happened before with any Mavs team. We've never seen a coach just skip the presser. We're taping this at 10 o'clock PT. We might find out today Davis is out for like two months.

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I mean, the Patrick Dumont piece of this. Oh, my God. As it's evolved. I wrote down. The funniest outcomes of the Luka trade so far. Here we go. And it's a long list. Everyone made this point. A trade so bad, people thought Shams got hacked. Let's just start there. That's never happened before in the history of professional sports where we assumed the best reporter of a sport got hacked.

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Palenka dressing like a Fast and Furious villain for the post-trade conference. I loved. Just like decked out. Like he was about to do a concert in New Zealand. Like he used to be on New Kids on the Block and now he's got a solo career. I love this one. Everyone's still pretending... that Jason Kidd, JJ Redick, LeBron, Rich Paul, and Anthony Davis didn't know about the trade. This is my favorite.

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They're still doing it. It's like, this is like Playhouse Theater. If people think Jason Kidd didn't know about this trade, I got like a bridge to sell you. It's unbelievable that they're still pushing this. AD, and we talked about this the day after the, on this pod, the day after the trade, like AD waved his trade kicker and gave up $5.9 million in like 40 minutes to make the trade work.

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There's no way he didn't know. It's impossible. He has this huge house out here in LA. He loved being on the Lakers. He had to have known all these people knew and they're still doing it all these days later. Well, it was so important. We had to just keep it between the owners and, and, and, and Nico and, and Rob. And that was all, it couldn't get out. Why couldn't it get out? Why?

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Right. Well, but then they said he didn't know until the 11th hour. It's like, you mean the 11th hour of a 24 hour day? Cause there's no fucking way you traded Luca without telling Jason Cade and talking him through it. Like, first of all, that's, that's insane. If you're running a basketball team and you're not going to walk through all the mechanics of here's door A and here's door B.

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And also, like, they were complaining about Luka behind the scenes for, like, two years. And there's no way Jason Kidd wasn't a huge part of this trade. And by the way, Jason Kidd, not exactly the most stand-up dude over the years.

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Like, he's left a trail of bodies everywhere. Like, the Nets in 2007, all of a sudden, he got out of there. Like, this is not, like... Mr. Loyal, awesome team employee guy. So I've just give me a break on that.

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And then LeBron, like the way he reacted to the trade after, like if they if they really blindsided on this, there's no way, no way that he reacts the way he did, which was like, oh, yeah, well, wait and see. I just think everybody knew this was better. This is a better situation for LeBron. It actually gave him a chance to win a title. It was better for A.D. to go to Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Anyway, that was one of my favorites. We mentioned Nico saying they kept the trade talks quiet because neither side wanted it to leak. You mean you didn't want it to leak because the moment it got out, there's no way the fan base would let you do it. uh, Patrick DeMont's interview over the weekend when he said Kobe was a culture builder.

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And Kobe's coach in 2005 wrote an entire book about how awful it was to coach Kobe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Shaq's work ethic, which was like the most famous thing about Shaq. The whole, in my book of basketball, the whole thing I wrote about Shaq was that Shaq could have graduated with a four road. Instead he graduated with a three, seven and had a great time. Like that was Shaq. Um, Mark Cuban, a week late. doing the whole, I tried to stop it as soon as I found out, but it was too late.

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Cause he probably was walking around for a week with everybody, just crushing them on the trade. And finally he had to like get some peace out to Mark Stein. Like, Hey, can you, can you put out that? I had nothing to do with this. Like there's really no blood on my hands. The Mavs trading Luca because he couldn't stay in shape and was always an injury risk.

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But then they got Anthony Davis who got hurt in the first game. Like you can't make this up.

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Right. This guy, this guy's better. Um, I liked, who knows, that Dave McBenneman story yesterday when it was like, LeBron's camp has noticed that Luka got what he wanted right away. That was an amazing sentence. And LeBron has been pushing for this stuff for years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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First of all, LeBron's played with, just in the last 14 years, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Love, Anthony Davis, and Luka Doncic. He plays on a Lakers team when they traded for A.D., They traded two top two lottery picks, Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball. They pushed Julius Randall out, who is another lottery pick. They traded the number four pick that became DeAndre Hunter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Hey, newsflash, the Cowboys didn't win another Super Bowl. What? It's been over three decades since the last time. We did have the Eagles win. We had the end of Mahomes. We had a lot of takes. Sal and I were doing stuff on Sunday night about, Mahomes getting kicked off Cote Island. What was the media reaction yesterday? What jumped out to you? What did you enjoy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They put Josh Hart in the trade. They put Mo Wagner in the trade. They traded like two more swaps and picks, including the one that became Dyson Daniels. And they have another pick this year. Like they gave away like basically a decade of drafts. Combined with the two Westbrook trades, how much can you do for this guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

1991.839

So I almost don't believe that he couldn't have... There's no way he really feels like they're not doing enough for him. Anyway, that made me laugh. And then all the Mav stuff with just... Hey, let's hold our heads high and thank Luca for seven years. And he brought us to the Western finals and the finals. And this is great. Maverick. Good luck in LA. No, they did the opposite.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2011.844

They just leak shit left and right. He's a fat piece of shit. Maybe he had a drinking problem. His calves could explode. Watch out for his Achilles.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

22.765

So you have a chance to get all these new look teams and maybe just ride Luka forever. and his point over in the Lakers to win as a parlay over and over again as he gets vengeance on the Mavericks. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Enjoy our new NBA player prop pages. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2377.11

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2548.206

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

260.937

Who was the best... Who was central casting for best villain? Was it just Duke basketball in the 90s? Who was just the easiest to put right in there? Because even the Yankees, like... I hated the Yankees, but I was like, all right, Jeter, I kind of like. He seems like a nice guy. You know, it was more the fan base than the team itself. Duke basketball seemed like that was the easiest one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2664.506

a el... . . . . . ., en P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a a

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2833.954

Well, I mean, imagine if Kyrie leaves. So he can opt out. There's some free agency stuff with him potentially. This could be a house of cards pretty quickly. And then the Davis piece of it, if he's just not healthy this year. They have a real chance not to make the playoffs because the West is so good. I was looking at the odds. I bet when I was in Louisiana over the weekend, I bet on Fando.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2858.808

I bet on Golden State at like plus 155 to make the playoffs. They're plus 102. Tomorrow, they might be plus 170. Like the West is like, depending on who wins two games in a row, there's 11 good teams plus San Antonio. There's eight playoff spots. So if you have Davis out for a month, combined with Kyrie pulls something for a week, now all of a sudden you're sliding out of it. Fascinating stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2887.123

Who thought Dallas would be this crazy as a sports city without the Cowboys being involved? I think that might have been the biggest shocker of all of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2907.892

The most emotional TV cameo of the last five years. Who knew? Best thing he's done in 30 years by far. Unbelievable stuff. Oh, I almost forgot to do this. So I was saying to you last night when we were texting that this was the first NBA trade that I felt could be turned into a Ryan Murphy limited series on Netflix.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

292.48

Yeah, yeah. When you're ruining stuff, that's always a good one. I'm trying to think who else. Like the Pats, because of the Spygate, I felt like that. In the first three Super Bowls, people were like, all right, enough with these guys. But it was a little like the Chiefs thing. But then when Spygate happened, then they became criminals, basically, and that moved it to another level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2929.551

Where... Listen, not to compare this trade to the Menendez brothers and Ted Bundy and some of the other things they've done. But why not? But it feels like, you know, you have characters, you have intrigue, you have the Dumonts coming in as like the rich family screwing stuff up. You have Cuban as the old guy hanging on. You have Luca and whoever his entourage is and whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

2953.314

They could Ryan Murphy that character up and make people like, no, no, Luca, it's three in the morning. You can't have Popeyes. You have LeBron and Rich Paul and AD and the Lakers side and Jeannie Buss and Jay Moore. Maybe Jay Moore plays himself. Anyway, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3039.558

We're going back and forth like the last dance a little bit. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3067.958

Oh, that's really good. I mean, you could also go Chris Pratt putting the weight back on. After losing the weight and getting muscular the last 12 years, now he's going back trying to win an Emmy. Who do we like for Cuban? Cuban's like, it feels like Jeremy Strong in a zag. Nobody expecting Jeremy Strong here. He's got the Cuban wing on. He's super personable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3093.469

And you're like, whoa, Jeremy Strong is Cuban? This is crazy. Why are they doing this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3146.151

Actually, you could also do the thing with Dirk where it's like a 6'4 actor with a bad Dirk wig and it's clearly not Dirk because that's one of the staples of these shows where the guy doesn't actually follow sports.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3158.478

Yeah, that's probably Dirk. Dirk's like 6'2". What do we do with Luca? Luca's tough. This is where you get into like the Aaron Hernandez show, which I liked. And the guy didn't really look like Aaron Hernandez, but by the end of the show, you kind of felt like he was Aaron Hernandez. So you almost need, you need somebody that's big and a little doughy and that could be anybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3188.722

You have to pretend Italy, you have to pretend it's like Palos Verde.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3195.686

I like this is actually a good series yeah this is pretty good and it's I think the Dumont the Adelson Dumont family I think features prominently in this yeah just like you really make Dumont like a villain and just a goofball who's like trying frantically trying to read up on NBA history like he's reading Halberstam breaks of the game somebody told me to read this I don't know who any of these people are

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3221.517

It's just confused. Can we still get Bill Walton in a trade? Who's playing Skin and who are the Mavs radio guys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3241.266

Could people play me and Russillo and Mahoney doing the reaction pod or are we playing ourselves?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3249.95

Skip with like some de-aging, like the Irishman. Cause we go back into the mid two thousands when he's saying that you can't win a title with Dirk DeWitzki, then it's like current skip. Unbelievable. Stephen A, Stephen A actor or Stephen A is himself.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

326.972

They had the Taylor Swift thing, a lot of Kelsey, a lot of both Kelseys. A lot of commercials. They were moving a little bit toward the Trump side of stuff, which I think a couple people ruffled up. But for the most part, I don't know. My biggest issue with them was they made it so unfun to talk about the Super Bowl, which we talked about on Sunday night, where it's just like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3266.673

What about Donald Faison as Nico Harrison? Ooh, interesting. See, that'd be good. Yeah. All right. This is great. Ryan Murphy, get on it. Call us. We're, we're ready to do this. Brian Curtis. You can read him on the ringer.com. A great website. You can also listen to him on the press box. An awesome podcast. One of our, how many years for the press box been out? Eight. I think it's eight. Yep.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3293.223

No, you were receptive. I forced fantasy. You were ready. Fantasy was forced. Fantasy took like, he was debating it like it was the Luka Doncic trade for weeks before he actually pulled the trigger. He seems to have gotten the hang of it. Yeah, he's doing all right. Curtis, thank you. Thanks, Bill. This episode is brought to you by Nissan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3311.753

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3337.805

Anything you throw at it. Learn more at the all-new 2025 Nissan Armada at nissanusa.com. Towing capacity varies by configuration. See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always secure cargo. All right, the one and only Matt Bellany is here. You can read him on Puck. You can listen to The Town, an awesome podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3362.729

Some have credited him with Craig Horlbeck's rise as a media mogul.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3380.76

That was what he knew. Someday he could marry into the Adelson family and maybe run the Mavs. We just talked, Brian Curtis and I just talked about the Luca trade. And I was saying how the Ryan Murphy Luca trade miniseries on Netflix, I would just watch. And we had a whole bunch of casting stuff. Is there anybody just without you knowing what we talked about?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3422.409

I mean, honestly, Ryan Murphy would probably do that because he, Ryan Murphy clearly doesn't follow sports as we've seen from some of his other stuff. So he'd be like, yeah, we'll just cheat it and make him look like he's six foot eight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3446.061

What's your Ryan Murphy miniseries that he hasn't done yet that you can't believe he hasn't done yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3454.725

Is there a Simpson-Bruckheimer one? Do you feel like there's an 80s Hollywood one that's sitting there for him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3471.092

Who? Ovitz, like the Mike Ovitz when he was the most powerful agent in Hollywood. Does anyone think about that? Yeah. I don't know what's left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

349.506

If you pick them, you kind of feel it. You just say, well, Andy Reid's my home. You had no other reason. If you didn't pick them, you felt like an idiot. So it was, I think, the worst Super Bowl to talk about since I've been doing this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3495.851

The problem is with an idea like that is I don't know if I'd want to spend time... I felt the same way about the Donald Sterling show. Ultimately, I just didn't want to spend six hours with Donald Sterling. Even if the show is good, there's some limits I have for...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3539.042

Yeah. SNL 50. One of the many reasons you're here. So it's Sunday. I got the music invite. I didn't get the, the other one. It's what? 200 people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3587.921

So you have... Like, I talked to Jon Hamm about it in the last week, and he said he's going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3593.284

So there's a level of, like, there's a guest host level where it's, like, Hanks, Jon Hamm. Like, there's probably, like, 20, 25 of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3623.14

And then you have 50 seasons of Cass. Some of them are dead. Some of them are. But a lot of them are alive from the 80s on. And it's like Eddie Murphy. But then you get into, is Piscopo one of the 300? I would think he has to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3651.855

Oh, really? And then you have the, uh, the music stuff because there's people like Paul Simon and, um, yeah, the friends of Lauren, but then also bands like if Bono wants to be there, like he was, he had one of the best music performances I've ever had. So he has to get in there. So I don't know how to do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

369.052

It was the first time I ever got slaughtered on a Super Bowl and didn't feel bad really at all. I was like, what are you going to do? You can't go get some game. What was the other thing you were going to say about the villain thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3701.224

Well, that's the other thing. You need the rich guy circles and you need the network circles.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3717.318

Well, they had to invite him because he could have basically destroyed SNL the last six years by doing Friday Night SNL on Netflix. And he loved the show and he didn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3740.845

I am positive that as long as Lorne is there, he's never doing that because he loves the show and he loves Lorne. But the moment Lorne leaves, I think Netflix just takes that entire corner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3767.19

So you you think like just the 300 people in this place, which is basically like having the NBA finals game seven in an arena that has 900 seats. You think they've been playing in this for like six months and they started out with a list of like 2000 names and levels.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3824.631

And we do not think he's retiring after the year. I'm 99% sure he's not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3845.708

How did you feel about the documentaries and all the stuff that they did to lead to this moment?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3915.475

The season 11 one I was so excited for because that's such a crazy stretch of the show where basically he leaves after year five, Ebersole comes in, the show is cratering and then Eddie Murphy saves it. They figure out a way to kind of keep Eddie Murphy, even though he's filming all the stuff in the first half of the show, they dole out the sketches to save it in season nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3937.732

And then season 10 becomes the all-star season with Billy Crystal, Martin Short, all those guys. And it's awesome. Season 10 is one of the best seasons in the history of the show. But then all those guys leave and Lauren comes back and Lauren tries to zag and hires all these young writers, young actors, new writing staff, whole thing. And just misses everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3958.993

And I was like, they're doing a documentary. This sounds amazing. But it didn't dive into the Lawrence stuff. It didn't really dive into why he came back, like the failure of the new show, which he had tried to do where he owned it. He almost went bankrupt from the show. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

3973.925

Yeah. And the Dick Ebersole thing where he was so mad that Dick Ebersole was being considered successful with the show. And that's a really fun dynamic, those two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4018.67

And he pulls Lovitz out. Lovitz is the only one. That's the other funny thing is Lovitz was the breakout star of that season, which tells you about the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4046.468

I think when they did this for SNL 40 and we blew it, it was my last year at Grantland and we blew it out. We had a whole week. We did the March Madness bracket for people on the show. We did an awesome job. You can go back and read it for people listening. We had like 20 pieces. I wrote a piece right after the SNL 40 show, which was three hours long.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4068.055

And I think the headline was like, bloated SNL 40 was actually kind of perfect because that's what the show was. But the 40-year mark was really cool because... The show was still really good, really relevant, and still really, really good at breaking stars. And it had just come off that awesome cast with Hayter and Sandberg and Sudeikis and Will Forte and Armisen and Kristen Wiig.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4093.684

And you look back at that cast, you're like, holy shit. We didn't even realize in the moment how loaded these, all of them went on to do all these other things. Yeah. And the last 10 years, they just haven't had the same success with the cast. And I think that's what's different. I look at these last 10 years and it's like, there's really no breakout stars that they've developed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4112.438

Kate McKinnon was probably the last one. And she's not somebody who can carry her own thing. She's good as like being part of something. But that's what's changed in the last 10 years, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4199.636

Yeah, the only times they really did that over the course of the show, like Belushi was filming. He was filming 1941, I think in season four and flying back and forth. Eddie Murphy was doing movies when he was there. You made exceptions for like the major stars. It seems like they've they've made a lot more exceptions in recent years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4240.339

The thing you said about the cast, one of the great moments of this podcast when I was at ESPN was I got to interview Lorne in his office, which was an incredible career move for me. Not move, career moment. It was just like, I can't believe I'm doing this. I had so many questions to ask him. I got to talk to him for an hour 20. Did he offer you popcorn? I don't think he offered me popcorn.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4265.459

Maybe he might have. But I talked to him about the cast thing. And I talked to him about my theory about how the cast was like a basketball team and you had to have the starting five and the four or five people off the bench. But once you have 17 people, it's just too hard to get everyone involved. And he was explaining why he did it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4284.062

And the reasons actually made sense where he was like, some people aren't ready for the first year or the second year. It really takes until year three that you got to develop people behind them. I think the thing they really fucked up in the last 10 years was using these celebrities for big parts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4301.411

And I've said this before, not being able to break new stars with parts like Biden, Trump, these things. If you go back to the history of the show, the cast members were always playing the people in the zeitgeist. And they shifted away from that and started giving those parts to... These other people, they even did it in 24. Like Maya Rudolph as Kamala Harris.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4326.072

Like, why can't that be a cast member? You know, and I think that's what shifted.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4332.196

Well, I think the theory of using people like Alec Baldwin, I think was a huge mistake. I know it's like- No, it's a drug.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4381.838

Right. And I remember right around when it started, Will Ferrell used to do that Janet Reno dance party sketch. Mm-hmm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4396.689

If I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was right in the early 2000s they started bringing the people there, parroting on. The show was really... Yeah, the show would go for it with celebrities. It was really mean-spirited in a way that I used to love and my friends all loved in the 90s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4451.265

How about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni? Totally. How is that not like a talk show where they hate each other and they're next to each other?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4464.616

But that's what's happened. That's the biggest thing that's happened in the show this century over the last 20 years. And I remember when Tina Fey came on as Palin all those times, and then they brought Palin on. And you talked about it. It's like a drug. They get addicted to the crowd reaction.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4478.808

And then that became like, we're going to have fun with these celebrities, but we also need the celebrities. I remember when Andy Samberg did that Mark Wahlberg sketch. Hey, how's your brother? How's your brother? And it was really funny. And Mark Wahlberg got pissed and they ended up bringing him on the next week to kind of give Sandberg shit. And it was like, this isn't the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

4499.026

The show was like kind of mean and ruthless sometimes with celebs. And now it seems like it courts the celebrities in a completely different way, which I just think is a product of Lorne being an older guy who just, he's a celebrity himself. And that's how he sees it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

45.24

So download the app today, Bet With FanDuel, an official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

456.069

Well, and that's where Romo or probably Romo, but I think Aikman would have been the best because Aikman just doesn't give a shit anymore. Aikman, I think, probably would have been the hardest on him, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I can't believe it hasn't happened yet. No, it's like if Netflix had done this two years ago on Friday nights, I think SNL would have been in real trouble. They would have gotten the jump on them. The other way to beat SNL that nobody is... SNL just goes away from mid-May to late September. Yeah. And every four years you have these, you know, a political election.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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That's the most fun part to parody. Yeah. And like Netflix could have just launched a Friday night SNL show last May. Yeah. And just crushed it for four months. And by the time SNL came back, it would have felt like a dinosaur. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Yeah. Well, this is an incredible run. The fact that it's been on for 50 years and my entire life. And I remember all the pieces of it. But. Um, it is amazing. There's nothing like, there's nothing like it, especially like the, the music, which I was really glad they did that music documentary, even though I thought they missed a couple of things that I was just stunned by.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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But, um, I just, I, I was always one of my favorite underrated things about the show was just catching all these acts at the greatest time of their career, right. As they're about to do this. And they would just over and over again, get these people. And then sometimes, um, you know, it would just go the other way. This was it. That was the highlight. And then it was gone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I can't wait to see what happens Sunday night. I mean, it's one of the one of the last must see 8 p.m. network shows. That's not sports or not an award show that we're probably ever going to have. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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All right. So if they ask me, I would have... the four or five best people in the history of show on stage together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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But a couple of them are dead though. So that makes it, you know, it's sad to say, but it's a little easier. But you take one person from each era. You take Aykroyd. You take Eddie. You take somebody from the Hartman era. Maybe it's Dana Carvey. You have Will Ferrell. You have... Maybe Kristen Wiig.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Maybe Hader. No, but I'm saying you just you have like five or six to start. I think they're going to go with celebrities, though, to start. It'll be like Tom Hanks, Paul Simon. It'll be like the Five Timers Club, basically. Something like that would be my guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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pretty risky there. I mean, some of them are like in their late 70s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I feel like he's going to take the easy way out and just start with like Paul Simon. Maybe. Like performing with Paul McCartney and like they'll start out with some song with some, with like an awesome band and that kicks it off. And then Chevy Chase, Chevy Chase, I think has to start the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Like, like officially be the one who like fall, they do some pratfall that they'll tape ahead of time and then it kicks to the credits would be my guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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We're going to take a break and then I want to talk to you about some Hollywood stuff that's going on. All right. I love having Bellini on in mid February because the Oscars is coming. It's usually just a fun time in general for Hollywood. Um, we have the Oscars in about two and a half weeks. Um, Conan O'Brien's hosting. The movies are weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Fantasy seems to be the only one who's happy with the movies. I just think fantasy is happy with movies every year. Um, And then we've had some really advanced level negging of different movies that has really hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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And he would get mad when he held it too long and got sacked or had to run out, throw it out of bounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Yeah. And it seems like after 48 hours, the, uh, the second level analysis stuff is, Whoa, the Eagles actually like go the 2000 Ravens and that some of the other great Superbowl teams, let's, where do they go? Where do they rank ahead of them? And then it feels like people are kind of test driving, uh, some Mahomes stuff. And even people in my life where it's like, Are we sure?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Just because they pulled out all these close games, why don't they have explosive plays anymore? The guy's about to hit 30. Could you say he peaked a couple years ago just as an explosive, awesome quarterback? There's always all these excuses around him. Are we sure? Which I remember hit Brady in the late 2000s too. There was some are we sure stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Well, I mean, this is your background even before you got into what you're doing now. Yeah, I was a lawyer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Yeah. There's real defamation potential here that the whole thing is you have to prove somebody had malicious intent with whatever they're doing. It can't be like, oh, I had this throwaway line on a podcast and then I shouldn't have said that. Malicious intent is the key. And it feels like there's malicious intent in this, which is what's so interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I don't think anyone feels really committed to anything. The biggest thing that shocked me And I feel like I say this every year and it feels like it's even, it just speeds up by probably an hour every year. But going back, we both loved like Sports Illustrated in the 80s. The Super Bowl would happen. People would talk about it. It would be on SportsCenter for four straight days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Okay. Because it seemed like part of his case was... they only took one side of this exchange. They had all access to all of this. They only decided to print this. And that, that got into interesting territory. Just reading about it. I was like, ah, there's something I can see the case.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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So you you think this is basically a nuclear war where both sides just blew each other up and there's no winners, there's no losers. It's not even a zero sum game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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So Baldoni actually... by doing everything he's done, actually, like, was able to get an equal playing field again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Well, I don't know if you know this, but Blake Lively has my wife and daughter's support because both of them have landed on. I don't like that guy's face as the reason to side against Baldoni.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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And then the Sports Illustrated will come out on Thursday with like the final statement of the game. And then that started to shrink as the internet came around. And it's kept shrinking. It kept shrinking. But even like when I was at ESPN, Sal and I used to do like Monday afternoon recaps of the Super Bowl. Then that became Monday mornings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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And something you've been writing about and talking about for the last couple of years, some PR people who are just absolute barracudas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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What was the best crisis PR TV show ever? A couple of people have taken swings at this scandal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Yeah. Yeah. Um, and then Kendrick Drake, is that over? Do people care anymore? Is this going to be it? Or is there, is there like another level to this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I know, but it feels like it just keeps going and going. Does Hollywood care?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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They also stuck up for him, though. I mean, I think there were some lawsuits behind the scene that they kind of aligned with Kendrick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Then eventually we're just going immediately as fast as we could after the game. And now it feels like the shelf life to discuss the Super Bowl is 18 hours. Is it longer than that? Like, does anyone, even us leading the podcast with this today, I want to do it because I love talking about all the ancillary stuff with you, but it's like, is it too late?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Speaking of Trump, Hollywood, they're in the second Trump term.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Versus the first Trump term. What are the differences you're seeing early on here?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Well, that's what my question is. Is there more fear of him this time around with some of the decisions big companies are making? Because it feels like there is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Yeah. And what happens next? Like what happens if he goes to Disney and he's just take him off the air? I'm just going to cause incredible amounts of trouble the next four years. Or what if he goes through Paramount and says, Colbert's got to go for me to even think about doing this. So all of this would be bad for James Babydoll Dixon, by the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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But what happens if he makes that part of the thing and would somebody stand up to him or would they be like, eh, all right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Is it too late to talk about the Super Bowl on a Tuesday morning?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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But it's like you think they pay a hundred million a year for the show. It gets out. But it's like, oh, we were thinking about pushing. Like they could spin it a certain way. They could.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Hey, if you missed it, we launched a brand new podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network and Spotify. It is called Good Hang with Amy Poehler. First episode is dropping fairly soon. Within the next couple of days, you can follow it on Spotify. Video podcast too. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We put up a new rewatchables on Monday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Do you think the horrific fires and everything we're going through here in Southern California is going to change at all the way Hollywood thinks about... Southern California thinks about Hollywood as a business? Because I always felt like it was shifting that... So many people are filming stuff outside of... LA and California because the tax breaks are so much better in Canada.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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You go to freaking South Africa, you go to Atlanta. Um, and it always seemed like miss money. And I wonder, are they going to start thinking outside the box with stuff like that and maybe trying to bring people back?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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That's what I'm really hoping for. Most people aren't going to care about this, but we both know so many people who... you're making content and you're traveling to these crazy places and you're away from your family for four or five months. And it's just like, why are we doing it this way? Why aren't we filming as much stuff?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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You watch those TV shows, movies from the seventies and eighties and everything's in LA. And why, like, why can't we get back to that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I sat next to somebody at one of the Dodger playoff games. He's like, yeah, I'm about to go to South Africa filming this BET show. And I'm like, Is it like set in South Africa? It's like, no, no, it's just cheaper to shoot there. I'm like, what? You've hit multiple kids. It's going way. It's just, they feel like they have to fix that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Meanwhile, the only people that have figured out business in LA is the Dodgers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I know. We have to end on that. They've ruined baseball. They figured out how to make Japan the second revenue stream. They've owned it. They now own Japan and California. All of baseball is no longer fun. You've ruined it completely.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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It's too late now. It's basically like the Japan Dodgers is a wrap.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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This is what I would say if I rooted for the team that was ruining a professional sport in real time. I would say, hey, these are the rules. Sorry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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No, I'm not actually mad at the Dodgers. The Lakers are the team that makes me mad. And if you're like the Clippers and you've really thought outside the box, you build this awesome arena. There's finally signs of the end with the Lakers, with LeBron hitting 40. They don't have any draft picks left. They're just going to suck. They're not especially well run. It's like, here we go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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And there's no like nobody's nobody's parachuting in on like Monday at 3 p.m. with this amazing story.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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We actually have a chance to maybe take this. It's way more fun to go to a Clipper game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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In one dumb trade, the Lakers are back. Luka's going to be the guy now for the next 10 years and none of it matters. And Luka will be the biggest star in LA in basketball. Do you think so? I do. I do. And there's no way for the Clippers to combat that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Well, they're about to because Luka just went to their most important franchise. And this is it. It's not even a test. He's going to be gigantically popular.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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It's an interesting question. I think if it's going to happen, this is the team for it to happen. And if the trade can light the fire under him and make him truly great, and he can win like three titles in a row and average 30 a game and be the best guy in the league, like, yeah, that's going to happen. We would have said it wasn't going to happen with LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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There was a whole LeBron versus Kobe thing in 08, 09, 2010. He goes to Miami the first year. He sucks in the finals. It seemed like it wasn't going to happen for him. Like, you just never know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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We've talked about this many times on the pod. We have not seen it happen yet. I think if it doesn't happen in this case... with a guy on the Lakers, you know, especially if he becomes really good. I still like anecdotally, just, I'm sure you feel the same. Like all the LA fans are going bonkers. Like they can't believe. So this will be the test case.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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So let's let's end on this. Any LA celebrity, athlete, actor, musician, actress, you name it, walks into a restaurant right now in February 2025, who stops the restaurant the hardest?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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The most like you're in mid-bite and you're just like, oh my God, it's Taylor Swift. So she's one. So who's two?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Right. So you're saying 25 and under, maybe it's Chalamet. Chalamet, maybe. Or Zendaya. I don't think it's Chalamet. Oh, Zendaya is a good one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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It's so funny that Taylor has this locked up in like a crazy, crazy, maybe nobody in the 21st century has locked it up like this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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The guy who's figured out the best, the best version of a celebrity is Mookie Betts. He lives in, lives in LA. So there's a kajillion celebrities here. He's not that big. He's like 5'9", 5'10". Looks like a regular dude. He slides in. He just goes to Laker games. He goes to Clipper games. He can just go anywhere, and you kind of don't even really know. It's Mookie Betts. He has it the best.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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You know who's up there in a stop the restaurant party standpoint? I talked about the Sunday night at Shaq just because of the size and how recognizable he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I actually felt like the halftime show and the Kendrick Drake stuff and, um, how polarized in that show ended up being almost became more of a theme on Monday, at least in, in, on my text threads and the stuff I was reading, it was more interesting. to read how people were receiving stuff, the hidden meanings behind some of the stuff Kendrick did on the halftime and Serena being in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Brady has it too. Brady's like 6'6". So when he comes in, he's like six inches, nine inches taller than everybody. You just notice him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Matt Bellany, you can listen to him on The Town. You can read him on The Puck, an excellent website. And then what else? Anything? That's it. What else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Someday, someday Craig Horvath will stop a restaurant someday. He will be going to happen soon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Uh, thanks, Melanie. Thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Brian Curtis and Matt Bellany. Thanks to Saruti and Kyle Gahow as well. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch this on Spotify. I hope you did because we're going video podcast from now on on Spotify and new rewatchables we put up on Monday night, the Blues Brothers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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If you missed it, I will have another podcast for you on Thursday. Enjoy the middle of the week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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That one had these levels that kept getting revealed. That used to be how the Super Bowl operated.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Probably Brady somewhere in the first three Super Bowls where it was all Belichick and all the defense and Brady was kind of the supporting character in a lot of ways. Sure. I think it would be the only other time I can remember that happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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I mean, they basically put the game in his hands and dared him to beat them. And he did that with the Mahomes stuff. There's a couple of fun wrinkles that could come out. He could go the, you know, the NBA player route. Like if this was LeBron in the home spot, we'd already be getting the leaks about he needs more help.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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They didn't find him anyone this year when Rasheed Rice went out, they could have done this, that, and the other thing. They knew Kelsey was getting old. They've got to do more. He took less money. It would be, they'd basically make him a victim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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Oh, that would be another one too. Yeah, he had like a quad injury. He couldn't push off his right foot. Yeah, they'd be doing all that stuff. But it kind of doesn't seem like Mahomes, not only does he not do that stuff, but... He always seems at peace, win or lose after the game, right? I, we never see that stuff about, Oh, this year, Patrick Mahomes is different.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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We did the Blues Brothers in honor of SNL fans. You can watch it on the Ring of Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch a lot of the videos and clips from this podcast and the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. This is a big episode for us because this is our first video episode of the Bill Simmons podcast on Spotify. Every episode from now on, will be a video episode on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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He's just, he's pretty, pretty even keeled, which I think you have to be as a quarterback. The interesting thing to me, which we talked about Sunday night was I really do think Kelsey was going to retire if they won. And the Kelsey, will he or will he not retire? I think will be fun. But just in general, like it's really hard to keep these windows open.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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You know, with with NFL teams, we went through it with the Patriots a few different times. It all depends on the drafts. People wrote some good pieces about, you know, they missed on their left tackle pick this year. you know, Rasheed Rice, which would have been this awesome wide receiver pick for him. And so you can just tilt it a little bit or all of a sudden you're catchable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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And I think that was the thing that changed the most coming out of this season was like the Chiefs not only feel super catchable now, we don't have to do the thing where we just hand them the game when we're talking about it. Now it's like football has opened up for analysis. So I'm excited for that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavericks Fans Revolt, ‘SNL 50’ Guesses, Oscars Watch, and Super Bowl Leftovers With Bryan Curtis and Matt Belloni

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From a, from a Superbowl standpoint, the Brady Fox thing at the end, $375 million, whatever it is, they certainly got a lot of ink and publicity and podcasts and, content. He was able to go on some of the Fox shows. He had a couple of decent moments like in traditional podcast interview stuff. I don't think from a game thing, I wouldn't even put him in the top eight game guys I heard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

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Coming up, NBA Cup, NBA, and a lot of NFL next. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold Michelob Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them. So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If I'm Dallas Kirk, who's my guy that's going to be guarding SGA if I'm seeing them in round two or round three? Who's my stopper for SGA?

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Last year, they were too small, and they almost won the series anyway, OKC. And it came down to that play in the corner when SGA, the foul, when he played perfect defense, and they lucked out with that one. But they also didn't have Hartenstein last year, and Chet got overpowered in that series. Or Caruso. And Caruso was great tonight. He was great tonight.

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A different team, and yet they almost beat them last year. So I'm feeling great if I'm OKC. The other thing... And who knows? Shams wrote this piece today about... You know, could Jimmy Butler get traded? Zach Levine? I know Jacoby has some thoughts on it. I'm like, OKC to me is the perfect type of team that could make trades because they have all these movable contracts, cheap contracts.

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They can add stuff together. They're not getting crushed by the apron. They have a million picks they could trade. I'm so confused by the trade rules. And I've read everything. And as you guys know, I'm the trade machine Picasso. Like, I take this seriously. I am just absolutely flummoxed by these rules. And even that thing today I read where it's like, yeah, Jimmy Butler.

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It's like, I'm not sure anybody can add Jimmy Butler. From what I understand about these rules, it feels like they made him too hard, Jacoby. And I'm going to be useless at the trade deadline. I don't like it.

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And a lot of the archives we have from the TV episodes we've done. So go check that out and subscribe. We're gonna be experimenting a lot more with video podcasts on all the Spotify feeds too for Prestige and for The Watch and for my podcast and for The Rewatchable. So stay tuned.

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Well, you're not doing that. Golden State's the team. I think it would be Golden State.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I think Shams put in, he had the Texas teams. San Antonio would be super interesting for that, but I think they would have to resign them. And I don't know if that's on their timetable, but Golden State, I think has real urgency with, uh, You know, I'm not just a body language guy, but I'm also the trade detective. And I did notice this weekend, all of a sudden they're pushing Kaminga.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're putting him in the starting lineup. Draymond Green's like, you can have my spot. When has Draymond Green ever been this magnanimous? Just there was a lot of red flags where I was like, huh, what are you guys doing? Almost feels like you're trying to showcase Kaminga for somebody. No, no, take my spot. Draymond Green, the guy who punched Jordan Poole, now he's Mr. Magnanimous, take my spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know, something that feels like the team because they're on a specific window with Curry, right? If you feel like you can contend for a title with Curry at age 36, he's already wearing down over the first five, six weeks. Butler makes sense for them. Kirk, you're nodding.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you're saying they're like the farmer's market? Yeah. Come on over. We got pistachios. We got Kyle Anderson. The flowers over here. Organic. There's some chicken. Got chicken over here. Free sample. It's a full chicken. Some fruit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think it's going to like really, really harm it. But so selfishly, I'm mad because I love making up fake trades and they're just going to be super unrealistic. But Jacob's, there's this flip side to it where I kind of like it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Where guys who are in situations they might not love, like to me, it's like if we're driving, you know, like say Jacoby, you have your three kids in the car and you're like, we're driving all the way to Washington, D.C. and we're not stopping. But your kids are like, Dad, can we stop? Can we get something? Can we stop, stop? And they just wear you down and you eventually stop.

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If you like listening to podcasts on Spotify, you'll be able to watch the videos as well as we keep going, heading to the end of 2024 into 2025. Coming up. We waited for these two NBA Cup games to end on Tuesday night because, especially OKC Dallas had to see what was going on there.

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This, all these apron rules are basically like the kids are trapped in the car for the entire ride now. Like if you're Brandon Ingram, it's like, I want to get off. Can we stop it? You're like, can't, sorry, can't trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But everyone's trapped in the car and you kind of have to make the best of it. And this is what the NBA used to be like. You're like, hey, you're stuck on your team.

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But look at Zach Levine's situation. He's playing well for Zach Levine. He's 22-5-5. I've watched a couple games where in the fourth quarter, he's as good as he's ever looked. And he could have checked out or been like, well, I'm going to nurse an injury until you guys trade me. But he's not going to get traded. So he might as well make the best of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's a little reminds me of what happened in football. Or in football, there's like never trades, right? Nobody's like, we traded our left tackle today for somebody starting outside linebacker. It's just everybody's kind of stuck on their team until the end of the year. And maybe that's what basketball is becoming, which is bad for podcast content, but it may be better for basketball, right?

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It might be Jamal Murray. Like his extension hasn't even kicked in yet. Well, if he's going to look like he's looked, I mean, there's some other ones like Nurkic. I'm sure Phoenix would be dying to trade him in five seconds, right? But yeah, if you look at the best three teams, the Celtics, OKC, and Cleveland, none of them really have like the, oh man, I wish we didn't have this contract guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All the contracts are pretty good. But I also feel like, it seems like people knew this era was coming. and the smarter teams were very careful. Even that OKC deal for Hartenstein, they overpaid him for three years based on what his market was, but it's actually a smart deal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Wanted to break it down, so I reserved, almost like you could reserve an Uber black car or something, I reserved Dave Jacoby and Kirk Goldsberry to be on call after the NBA Cup, so they're gonna join me, and then, Craig Horoback and Kyle Branton and I, Kyle and I did a rewatchables that we recorded for later this month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's how they got him, and it's not gonna kill them down the road, unlike how Juan Soto's gonna kill the Yankees in the last five years of his deal when he's just destroying them for 60 million a year. Or the Mets, I meant the Mets. Let's take a break. I have some NBA Cup questions for you, big picture, whether we actually like this or not. That's next.

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I tweet those out on Fridays. Next time you get a hunch on who's going to win or how many points a player will score, You can watch your picks come to life live. You can even bet the NBA Cup games on Wednesday. Just visit FanDuel.com slash BS to get three months of NBA League Pass courtesy of FanDuel. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA.

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You must be 21 plus in President Select States or 18 plus in President DC. After a three-month free trial, the full price of League Pass will be automatically charged monthly, cancel any time, no refunds. Terms, restrictions, and embargoes apply. Limit one pass per customer. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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This episode is brought to you by PayPal. Sports fans, I know going to the big games can get expensive, so let's talk strategy. Let's talk how PayPal has changed the playbook. Now you can pay everywhere, online, in-store. either or both with the PayPal debit card. That's right, earn a 5% cash back up to $1,000 every month in the category you choose, like apparel and groceries. Think about it.

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That's like getting cash back when you're picking up your game day snacks or grabbing a drink with the crew after the big game. I'm talking about real savings, like that energy drink keeps you hyped for the big game cash back. 17th purchase of merch from your favorite team cash back. Post game extra large pizza you order like clockwork. You get the idea. Every payment, everywhere, every time.

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Don't just pay, PayPal. Terms and cash back, limits apply. See PayPal app. The PayPal debit card is issued by the Bancorp Bank. NA pursuant to a license by MasterCard International Incorporated and may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. NBA Cup, does this work? Jacobs, it's year two. Here's my case for maybe it doesn't work.

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I didn't want the Celtics to make the quarterfinals or semifinals and have to play the two extra games. I wanted the rest for them. So that tells me fundamentally, maybe this doesn't 100% work, that I wanted my team not to make it.

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And then I made him stick around yesterday and me and Craig and Kyle just talked about NFL. And it went a whole bunch of directions. I had a great time. So this is a three-man podcast all the way through with two different three-man teams. It's all next. First, our friends from Pro Gym. All right, we're taping this. It is almost 9 o'clock Pacific time. Dave Jacoby stayed up late on the East Coast.

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I know Embiid's disappointed. He wanted to get those two extra games in. I like the NBA Cup But I think that's the criticism. I was thinking, should there be a couple other things that you win if you win beyond just the money? What if you could get un-aproned for the rest of the season? I don't know why the players would care about that, but the fans, I think, would be...

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Like the Phoenix Suns all of a sudden be like, wait, we're out of the lock separate apron for three months. It's like a get out of jail free card for the apron. What if you guaranteed the six playoff spot?

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Well, you could think about the season a little differently. It's an advantage, right? You know you don't have to be in the playing game. You know you're going no lower than six. You can rest guys a little differently. It's a real advantage for the season, I think would be the appeal. But then if you're a team like Atlanta... Or even Houston, who's probably going to be a top six team anyway.

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But I think that would be pretty... Or Orlando, who's losing their entire team to torn obliques. You kind of want the sixth seed. I like that. The other one... That's really it. You could do a draft pick thing, but I don't know why the players on the team would care. It's like, oh, we've locked down the 15th pick.

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With Jacobs, we both have the reality background. You once upon a time were the czar of reality TV. Is there a reality thing we could steal for this? Like you win and you get to use that power to fuck over another team in some way? Like you could say... Oh, I haven't thought about it in that way. You get your cross and it's like the Celtics now...

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So say the NBA Cup quarterfinals, semis, and finals are all Elam ending. We just hit a certain score and the game's over? Yeah.

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Jacoby, would SGA be fun to play with? Absolutely. Be fun to play pickup with? Okay. He leads the league in unassisted baskets, so it's kind of one of those situations where you don't feel needed.

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Yeah, when we played, we had that one guy who was the stay on the court guy. where we knew we would basically just have to rebound and play defense, and he was going to score nine of the 11 points. I can't remember what his name was. Jalen Rose. I think it was Jalen Rose. Jalen was unfair. He was unfair to play it. Let's talk about the other game and whether we believe in Milwaukee Bucks yet.

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I thought they played really well against the Celtics on Friday in a game that was about as intense as you get in December. There's no love lost between those two teams, Kirk Goldsberry. There's some Giannis Jalen stuff. There's some Giannis Al Horford stuff, I felt like. Tatum has a little bird in his saddle against them. I don't feel like anybody really likes playing against Dame that much.

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Kurt Goldsberry, sloppy seconds we're getting you today because you were doing some alt-casting. Hopefully you have enough energy momentum back. Guys, I'm going to start here. OKC beats Dallas. Jacoby, is OKC like a borderline lock for you in the West, or is there somebody else you're afraid of? Because the more I watch them, the more I just wonder who beats them in the West.

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I always feel like people get annoyed by him. But that was a really intense game on Friday. But the Celts won. But what struck me was I thought the Bucs hung with them and could have won the game. And... Now that Green and Prince have been getting them three-point shooting, now that Portis, who looked like he was going to be out of the league first month of the season, now he's back.

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Now they have Middleton back. Giannis is averaging a 32, 12, and 6. I still don't feel like they're at that top echelon and maybe not even in the second echelon. But they're at least lingering because of Giannis now, right? I don't think they're lurking, but I would go lingering for them. Is that fair?

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I'm a little worried about the Lopez piece of it. He looked really old in the Celtic game and I thought he was the biggest reason they lost. And it feels like there's a Giannis, Portis, Shooters, and Dame. And whether Middleton's in that or not, we'll find out. But that seems to be probably their most successful lineup, which is weird because Lopez was so essential to what they did.

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I don't know, Jacobs. I still don't feel like the Giannis-Dame thing is perfect. And maybe it will never be, but it almost feels like Dame, it's like, hey, Giannis isn't going to play tonight, Dame. You're going to have to take a lot of shots. I don't feel like he's shedding tears. You know what I mean?

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I don't feel like they've totally figured it out yet, but they're kind of scotch taping it and duct taping it together now.

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For Tatum, it's a dream. Tatum against the Bucs, he's like, this is awesome. Sorry, Kirk, I interrupted you.

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Are you a believer? Ime said this like three weeks ago about. He's like, if you look at all the teams that have won a title or made the finals, they're all like top five defense. Yeah, I think he's right. I actually think it's that simple.

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Right. Well, and then when Dame wasn't on him, he was getting the switch button. They were asking a lot from Suggs in that game. In fact, this is a good time to bring in Steve Cerruti for two seconds because we have a very important Orlando Magic question. So at halftime, were you on Expedia or wherever looking for Hartford to Vegas tickets? Were you thinking about it? You were, weren't you?

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People come over, they want a beer. They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or, I've never tried one of these. I've heard you talk about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious. There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket of Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra.

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My friend, Sean Grandy, who is the radio guy for the Celtics, who's, I think, a good basketball kind of thinker with this stuff. Orlando is the team he's afraid of for the Celtics when they get everybody back because he thinks they're defensive upside. And they didn't have Isaac tonight either.

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He thinks their defensive ceiling is the high... Some people would say it's Tibbs and Nix, but I just think it's going to be too easy to get...

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point the Knicks are in a weird position where their offense is probably going to be more dangerous than their defense in the playoffs but I think Orlando so the case for them would be the defense giving Franz all those reps without Paolo and now Suggs turning into like Russell Westbrook 2017 light like just doing everything on the magic Jacoby are you buying Suggs stock yet?

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Well, the other piece with the Orlando that's been interesting with these guys going out is... I don't know. They took the... They took the training wheels off Anthony Black a little bit.

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He got, what's the hairdo he's rocking these days? He moved some hair stuff around. Yeah, and he's got, there's like a little bun in the back.

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But there's a lot of stuff to like with him. And I don't really know what his ceiling is. And I'm sure when we get to like game four of a playoff series and he's in the corner, teams are going to be like, go ahead, take that. But the fact that he's not a bust feels like a win, Cerruti.

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And two games you didn't have to play. It's not like the NBA Cup was going to do anything for you. It's two more games where nobody's getting hurt. Oh, Cody's got time out.

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It's tough. They're 30th in three-point shooting, 31%. They're 28th in corner threes.

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They're all fine. Why don't you have to do that to Cerruti? He's got, like, the best two guys have torn a bleach.

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Oh, I like how you used the alpha and beta. So Rudy, did you know where your oblique was five weeks ago?

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I wonder if they even knew how to diagnose this in like the 80s. Like Bob McAdoo had a torn oblique for an entire year and had no idea because he's like, oh, my side hurts. They're like, Bob, take some aspirin.

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But how did two guys, I know everyone's asking this, but it is fucking weird. How did two guys get the same injury? It's like a haunted house.

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They were showing him different plays and he couldn't even know what the play was.

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Really weird. Rank your three, your three teams you're afraid of in the East. Boston, obviously one. Who's two?

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Die Easy Knicks fan Dave Jacoby is upset. No. Number one offense in the league.

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Kirk, were you seeing 25 and 13 with 46% three-point shooting from Towns this year? Was that in your bingo card?

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I thought it was going to go the other way. I thought it was going to be like, oh, they got to figure out how to get in the ball more because there haven't been enough. Instead, it's like this him and Brunson as a combo have been crazy. And then it seems like the Knicks fans really like him, too. That's the other thing that I think was up in the air.

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Yeah, I think I'd go slight edge to the Bucs because of just how crazy Giannis is this year.

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It just seems like any time he wants to go downhill, he turns, so my daughter went to the game on Friday, because my dad got a COVID shot, and I don't know, first of all, why did he get a COVID shot? Great question. Second.

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I was like, nobody, dad, it's 2024. What are you doing? So he got a COVID shot and then go figure, him and my stepmom both felt like crap the next day. So my daughter got to go with her boyfriend and she hadn't seen Giannis in person. And it was, so she called me after and she was like, dad, is he like the best player of all time? Like, where does he, what's going on with that?

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FanDuel agrees with you, but the odds for the OKC Thunder in the West, I thought they'd be a minus, but they're plus 190 in the West. And they just seem too athletic and too fast for maybe any team except the Celtics. Because I think at least the Celtics, it's the perimeter guys. You watch Dallas, and Dallas was on a good run. They'd won 11 and 12.

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It just seems like every time he wants, he could just bulldoze over everybody and get a layup or a dunk. And I'm like, yeah, it's kind of.

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This fat guy is going to have 104 points this weekend, two games. But I think we've been watching the honest thing for so long, we forget just fundamentally how insane it is that he could just basically get to wherever he wants, no matter what the defense is. Middleton is the thing with them. To me, it's a 3A, 3B thing. And I want to know where we are with Middleton in March.

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And then Orlando's kind of lurking as the... Who knows, team? Miami, it's interesting. And I don't think they have any chance to move up into this ladder, but they do seem like they've figured out something over the last two weeks with their team. Like, Hero carries the offense for three quarters. Butler kind of takes over late. Bam's having a really weird season.

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Like, all his field goal stuff and stuff around the rim is terrible. It's really, like, uncharacteristic. But for some reason, I could see them... maybe upsetting somebody in one round, but not more than that. And that's really it. I don't even know who else we would have in the East. Sruti, you seem like serenely confident, just focused on March and April.

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That could have been like a salary cap nightmare to have two supermax guys.

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I think he's a third guy on a championship team And maybe even potentially has the ceiling of being a second guy if he was with somebody incredible, right? Like being the Jamal Murray, Drew Holiday spot if you get to play next to a Giannis or Jokic. All right, thanks for stopping in, Saruti.

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to me, remember we said that joke about Twitter, like when Twitter was really like a place a lot of people went to that you just wish you could have certain stories and just not even see them, that you could meet the story. If the story was happening, you just wouldn't even know about it. That's how I feel about it. Embiid might play tonight. Embiid's not gonna play tonight.

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Embiid's gonna rest tonight. Embiid has some swelling again. Embiid's feeling better. I just, I'm just out. I'm tapping out. I can't do it. The chronic swelling was the most disturbing part of that story I thought this weekend. It's not even like he re-injured or anything. It was like, yeah, it's maintenance because he has chronic swelling. What does chronic swelling mean? None of it sounds good.

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They really felt like they were starting to turn into something. And they just look slow tonight compared to OKC. You put Luka, you put Kyrie, you put Klay Thompson. Najee Marshall, who was really good in the first half. Those are good players. Those are guys, this is the top five team in the league. And OKC just seemed faster overall. and younger and more athletic.

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Goldsberry, you were at San Antonio when this was going on with Kawhi. It was a little different. There was more mystery. And Kawhi was younger. He wasn't 7'3", carrying a bunch of weight. But this just has a stranglehold over your franchise after a certain point, right?

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Yeah, this happened to the Celtics in 09 with KG. I don't know if you remember. KG got hurt. They were like 31 and five. They had some crazy record. And it was like, KG's coming back. And then it was just, is he coming back? And then it was like, team not sure. Still feeling pain. Nobody's saying anything. And it just turns into this

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Like you said, a black cloud where you don't know game to game we tweak. What's weird is that I guess he looked pretty good in that Bulls game. I didn't watch it. I just saw the highlights.

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And Luka, I don't know, what was going on with Luka, Jacoby? What was your take?

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Yeah, it's like when you see... like in a sports movie, there's like the, the fat old washed up guy who wanders on the court and just starts hitting like 20 footers. It just seems like a bead. He's so skilled from 18, 19 feet. It doesn't matter. They hadn't played for a month. All of a sudden he could just hit nine straight 20 footers. But,

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you know, not to be a party pooper, but, you know, they're in this stretch. They were calling it, Hollinger called it the NBA bye week, basically, where everybody has like one or two games over the course of eight days. And they're playing Chicago, then they have all this rest. So he can have a game. He's playing Vucevic. He's playing the Bulls who are a bottom five defensive team.

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And he can go out there, get a good run, get his points, not have to worry about playing the next day. It's hard to feel optimistic after that is my point. Like I want to see what their schedule starts to get harder. I think at the end of the year, they've got, did they have a road trip? Is he going to be on the road trip? Is he going to play?

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Then there's the part that you mentioned about the teammates being asked about it. What do you think about Joel? How much do you guys miss Joel? It's just day after day. And You know, it's not awesome, especially when you're competing against teams like OKC, where it's like everybody's young and hungry, and they're all doing the post-game press conferences together.

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And they're hanging out, and they're ready to go. So I don't know how it plays out. I'll tell you this, though. The extension... Yeah.

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I wish he made threes. He's like 28% from three, but everything else is there. He's fluid. I know. I like him.

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Good point. For what he's going to do, I think, this year, I think they're going to have real trouble keeping him out of the lineup. And there's a chance he's their second best player by the end of the year. I just like him. I like how hard he plays. He seems like the kind of guy OKC would have. Just like a really, really, really gives a shit two-way guy. He can't really shoot yet.

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But I thought he was my favorite guy heading into the draft. I thought he's the guy I would have taken number one if I was Atlanta. And everything I've seen from him I would not waver on that one. I want to see more. Reed Shepard is the one I think I'm the most interested by because I don't think Van Vliet's had a good season and the shooting stats back it up. Like they're not good.

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And I wonder, you know, I know they have like a, I forget if it's a player option or a team option next year, but Reed Shepard within two years will probably be running that team. But I almost, that's one of those where you want like, Van Blee to have some very minor injury for three days or three games just to kind of see Reed Shepard get to drive the car out of the garage a couple times.

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It's weird. I like this draft more than I thought, Kirk. There's a lot of guys. They're not superstars, but there's a lot of guys where I'm like, I kind of like that guy. Even Klingon on Portland. I like Zach Eady. There's a bunch of them.

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Well, I think Memphis is so deep that I thought he would actually be this important, weird, just kind of throw a cannonball in the pool just to shake it up kind of thing, but they don't need it. They just have too many good bench guys. Their bench is crazy. And the fact that Aldama is actually good now.

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Yeah, true. Yeah, Sar... That's probably the worst possible situation for a guy like that. It's like your team's going to just be awful and you're just going to learn some bad habits. But too early to say what we talk about him. I mean, one other thing with Memphis, like another reason that Edie's probably not even going to play that much is that Brandon Clark...

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has, uh, I, I was so impressed with him in the Boston game, but just, it feels like he's got his explosiveness back and he's a really unique player, like that crazy undersized energy guy that always seems to be on good teams. So yeah, I like the draft. Um, we'll see with Dillingham.

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You know what, though? I still think they're the number two team in the West for me if I had to say who can actually make the finals. I still have Dallas second. I don't think this is a great matchup for them. And I was trying to think of the rock, paper, scissors thing with the West. I don't know if you guys saw the OKC Houston game. Maybe it was 10 days ago.

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That was the other one that I was super duper intrigued by, but it feels like they phased them out a little bit because they're trying to get their defense going. Um, so we'll see what happens with that. Who's your most disappointing team? Jacoby, Indiana.

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It's probably Tommy Alter's fault. Who's your most disappointed team, Kirk?

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Those are two great choices. Congratulations to both of you. But the answer is the Phoenix Suns.

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They don't have KD. Make excuses for big shot Bob Sarver. They're 13 and 11. They're like one in nine without KD. Okay. But guess what? They traded all their first round picks. They traded Mikael Bridges. They traded Cam Johnson. They traded DeAndre Ayton. They traded all their second round picks. They traded everything to have basically a three guy team.

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And one of the three guys has been in the league since 2007 and has a bunch of injuries and has gotten hurt twice. And I don't know why I fell for it. It made me mad. They were one of my favorite overs. I picked them to win the division. I thought they were going to be a 50-plus win team.

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Houston, I think, is the team in the West that can go toe-to-toe on this crazy, young, hungry pit bull, just speed, athleticism all over the place. I think that's the only way in the West... Nobody's going to overpower them. There's not going to be like, obviously not the Lakers, but the LeBron AD type situation where it's just, oh my God, they just got bully balled.

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And I forgot the fact that they're built around this guy who's been in the league for 18 years, asking him to be the rim protector, their crunch time scorer, to do 30 a game, nine rebounds a game, make 50% of your shots and 45% of your threes, do everything. And it's like, oh, guess what? He lasted a month before he got hurt twice. And I'm just mad at myself more than anything.

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But you have to be disappointing when you trade players literally a decade of stuff for the team you have in your 13 and 11. So that's my answer.

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Yeah. Especially now with all the apron stuff that happened, that trade looks even a hundred times worse. Like you would much rather have the flexibility now, but when you just consider all the assets they sent out for the team that they have now, and it's all hinging on, well, when Durant's healthy, Might not happen. You know?

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He's 7'1", and he's had a lot of lower, below-the-hip injuries at this point, and they put a huge burden on him in playing big minutes. And I would just be nervous if I was the Suns.

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I guess for me, Kirk, with Phoenix, there's always going to be, now that Nurkic is pretty much unplayable, so leaning on Plumlee now as their center, and Tyus Jones, these are like bench guys. These are guys that would be like 10th or 11th players on the Celtics or the Thunder, and these are two of their crunch time guys.

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70 plus million for Bradley Beal and Nurkic and Bol Bol. Is Bol Bol still on the team?

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Guys, thanks for staying up with me. It's a pleasure seeing you. Great seeing you in your weird, undisclosed New York City location at one in the morning. We don't know where you are. Be careful walking home, Jacobs. Kirk, great to see you. Even though we were your sloppy seconds tonight, I had a great time talking to you guys. I will see you soon, I'm sure. Thanks for coming on.

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They got out rebounded by 10 rebounds. I don't see that happening this year. I almost feel like you have to beat them with what they do. Is there anybody else you see, Kirk?

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All right, we're taping this part on a Monday. I did a Rewatchables taping with Kyle Brandt, who we haven't been together in a long time, really since Super Bowl with the Giants and the Pats that I never like to talk about. Craig Horlbeck is here too. Let's talk football. There's no reason for this. We just turned the mics on. Come on. Sal brought up last night on the podcast...

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about whether if you were... Granted, it's like a generic talk show segment, but it really got my brain turning about Josh Allen versus Mahomes. Mahomes, the resume, versus what we're actually watching week to week, game to game, like the shit that he's doing, the shit when they're down 35 to 13 against the Rams. And you're just like... not turning this off. I feel like Josh can bring this back.

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You've been on the bills thing forever. Yeah. So is anything different this year or is, is, are the, are the toys better for him? Is it just the experience? What is it? What's different between the years?

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I can't count out Lamar yet for some reason, but I think it's like, FanDuel would say it's done. It's like, he's like a minus 500 favorite.

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And so it's like, I just... I'm out. I did this last week. I'm out on the Saquon. I just think like... I want it to. It would be cool, but I don't think they can do it. This is the dumbest way to think about it, but I also think it's the best way to think about it. When somebody gets hurt, what happens to the line? Like if Josh Allen got hurt, the Bills line moves by nine points.

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If Barkley gets hurt, the Eagles line moves by like two and a half points.

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Yeah. So that's what, I hate that it has to be a quarterback pretty much every year unless the guy's having the most amazing season ever or there's no like awesome quarterback. But for the most part, this is the most, it's like saying like, no, the pilot's not the MVP of this airplane. It's actually the third flight attendant. Got those peanuts. She's killing it. It's like, you know who's the MVP?

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The fucking pilot. Because we're crashing if the pilot doesn't make out.

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Right, and they have the dopey play with the QB sneak where they waste the time out. Is that this era?

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I am. I am stunned that the Steelers have not gotten more credit this year. I don't get it. I don't know what else they have to do.

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The Josh thing, the way you laid it out, really makes me think of Peyton Manning, first half of the 2000s, where he had reached this point where he was the best regular season quarterback ever. He was the guy you would take first in fantasy, all that stuff. But you never felt like he was actually going to win.

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And then they end up winning in 06, partly because the Pats choked away a 21-3 halftime lead. In the dome.

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The problem for the Chiefs is sometimes you can pass the point of no return with weapons. Because, and I said this last time on the pod, like, This did happen to Brady a couple of times where like 06, he was awesome. And we just had nobody. We had Lawrence Moroney and starting running back and Rashay Caldwell and Jabbar Gaffney and Ben Watson. It was like, we just didn't have enough weapons.

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When we needed third downs, there was that one guy to get open. There was that awesome running back. I don't think the Chiefs weapons are that bad, but there's been some Brady seasons where he was better than the team. And I wonder with Mahomes' shot, I thought he took a lot of hits on Sunday night.

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a superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2024, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra, registered light beer, St. Louis, Missouri. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's football season and Uber Eats is dropping undefeated deals on all your game day favorites. This week's score, buy one, get one free six-piece boneless wings from Buffalo Wild Wings now on Uber Eats.

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Or should they have lost? And Allen missed that one throw to Diggs. There was one other play. Like, if you really watch that game closely, it was kind of amazing the Bills didn't win that game.

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No, there were some weird Patriot years wondering like how we were doing it week after week. But this is different because they're almost adding this degree of difficulty to the wins. And I'm not a lucky person with football. I never really bought into that because clearly they're good. Clearly, like the plays that he was making yesterday, especially in the last drive, that third and 15 was crazy.

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And then actually, I don't know who I put in third or just to beat OKC. Would you just have Houston third in general?

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Right. The third and seven, you know, he's going to get it. So that's its own skill. I thought what concerned me if I was them was the Chargers, I thought, were really physical with them in the second half in a way that I don't remember seeing with the Chiefs.

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But you always felt like the Chiefs were going to lose. It was because they dropped the key third down pass or something. I thought the Chargers were pushing them back.

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I like them. So they'll be a six seed, right? Depends, yeah. They'll be whatever behind Baltimore and Pittsburgh. So a six seed would put them probably against either Buffalo or Pittsburgh.

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That's why they go in. That's why I'm so cautious with the Chiefs because of the Kelsey keeping him in the garage with the tarpon thing.

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Like they're just clearly doing that. Yeah. We didn't see him for two hours in the game yesterday. You know, in fantasy, like people are still paying for him in fantasy.

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But then you watch Bowers, although Tampa was able to take him out a little yesterday. Bowers is just like Gronk crossed with Kelsey, crossed with like a sports movie tight end. He's open all the time. He's just crushing everybody. And Kelsey could probably do that in January in round two, but I don't think they're using that skill now. So I don't know if I had to rank them.

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4988.742

I honestly think Pittsburgh's the safest bet out of the three because of the defense. More than Buffalo. Yeah.

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I think they could beat Buffalo in Buffalo because they can get some explosive plays. But I think Buffalo has a better chance of beating KC. Because the thing with KC that I can't wrap, I feel like if you can get 24 and up on them points-wise, you're probably beating them. Right? Buffalo beat them 30-21. Yeah.

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But Pittsburgh is more likely to play the 18-16, 19-16 type Kansas City game, which is better for KC. So I do feel like there's some rock, paper, scissors.

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Yeah, but Kyle knows the way to beat the Bills is what the Rams did yesterday. You're just five yard run, four yard run, seven yard run, seven yard pass, three yard run, five yard. You're just chipping away, chipping away, chipping away. Like a punt.

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But what did they run for? The running game, I thought, was the most interesting part of that. Because Buffalo, I wouldn't say they're like a giant defense. No, not really. It feels like you can push them backwards.

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I just think that Detroit-Philly talent pedigree... That's good. Especially if you have to go into Detroit round two, round three, and try to take those guys. Whereas the AFC, I don't really love any team. I feel the best about Pittsburgh. I certainly wouldn't feel awesome about Russell Wilson winning three straight playoff games. Yeah, and if this is the year to go against KC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My holy shit playoff team would actually be the Chargers. I'm with you on that. They can block... And they can chase the passer. And once we get into January, if you can just do those two things, make a couple plays, not turn the ball over and win a couple ugly games. That's what the Chiefs did last year. You know, I was really impressed by that mystery. I think they're the Chargers in a loss.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I thought they, I thought they really handled the Chiefs defensive line. I was surprised. And like Herbert misses wide open touchdown, right? He missed another guy like 35 yards down the field. Their running backs are among the worst in the league without Dobbins.

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And we always look for these angles on what makes the team special, who's going to be the sleeper. This was the first year where I was like, all I care about are coaches and QBs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5277.926

I did all my over-unders and I was like, If you have a coach or a QB, I'm not even worried that the Chargers don't have receivers. I'm going over. I'm picking them to make the playoffs. They have Harbaugh and Herbert. Doesn't matter. That should be enough. Yes. Whereas like flip side, I don't know, Vegas, I don't understand their quarterback situation at all. I don't know what we're getting into.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm out. And I wonder sometimes is football just that simple? Is it all about the QB and the coach and the rest of it is like periphery?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5312.402

That was my big mistake. I had the Jets over Buffalo in the division. That was my biggest regret. But Rodgers is washed. Like, he's, you know, if you knew he was going to be the 41-year-old washed Rodgers, I wouldn't have picked that.

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5337.335

I got so deceived by all the Buffalo dead cap space stuff and transition year. I just, they snookered me. I think they snookered themselves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The other thing, well, you're forgetting Memphis. And we have to mention that because Jacoby does a podcast twice a week on the mismatch. With somebody who's like, how the fuck could Kurt Goldsberry not mention Memphis for eight minutes there? What the fuck is he doing?

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But like six days ago, everybody was thinking Detroit's defense is so banged up. Philly, the season parted for Philly. That's how I was feeling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5399.558

Yeah. They're exactly frisky. They had a 98-yard drive almost to win a game with three minutes left.

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And I think also- And they don't really believe in Sirianni either, right? Definitely not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5461.28

This is a theory I heard about the Nuggets. you made me think of about like AJ Brown being pissed. Yeah. Like, that it was like, why isn't Jamal Murray playing better? It's like, cause Jokic does everything. This person I know was saying how NBA, it was just a theory. It's like, those guys are tired of just being like Jokic's towel boys and everything's Jokic, Jokic, Jokic. Oh, what a miracle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5485.48

It must be to play with Jokic. Oh, he gets all the stats and like Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr. Where's mine? I want you too. Cause they already won a title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5513.937

We have a lot of disgruntled receivers. Do we have gruntled receivers?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5533.963

Do you buy Minnesota yet? I know that's been a, we, we, for three months, all of us who do podcasts and content, we're all just assuming this was your classic biking season where the stats say they should have been nine and eight and they went 14 to three, but every week, but yeah, the same Donald conversation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is that true? He does the 15 second fast forward. Memphis right now is fifth offensive rating, seventh defensive rating. The per 36 stats are crazy for them too. Like Ja, who's really only playing like 28 minutes a game, but he would be 28 and 11 if he played 36. Brandon Clark looks great. So from a speed standpoint, Maybe, but I'd kind of like to see those guys play for 20 games, Jacoby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I say to Sal. During the NFC Championship, what happens now? I say to Sal on Sunday's pod, I don't know how they let him go at this point. Like when you have a quarterback that you're built, your team's built around these two awesome receivers that you have, right? You have a quarterback who's clearly clicking with them in a real way, who's made big plays over and over again down the stretch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Why do I have to start JJ McCarthy next year? Why can't I just trade JJ McCarthy? He's the eighth. It was seventh or eighth pick. What was he? Seventh? Seventh pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But you think like I'm trading him for a high second and I get to pay Sam Darnold. I think Sal and I went through all the teams that need quarterbacks. There's probably four legitimate plus maybe Seattle if they don't pay Gino. Maybe Purdy. Sure. Six total. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, we did Million Dollar Picks Thursday and the house was like imploring me to put the Vikings in a parlay. And I was just like, it looks too easy. Something's wrong. I don't know. It makes me nervous. Nobody likes cousins. And we ended up doing it. And Falcon scored 7-0, and I'm texting House like, motherfucker, why did I listen to you, you fucking dick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but here's the difference with Darnold. If you're just talking about what... If I have a franchise quarterback, what do I want? Do I want size? Well, he has that escapability. He has that cannon arm. Has that... Is he pretty good down the stretch or when you need him to make some plays? He's done that all year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Teammates like him. I don't know what he's missing. I watch quarterbacks for... 10 to 11 hours every Sunday. And most of them are bad. And he's actually pretty good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We said this about Baker last year and then they signed him and he's been good this year. That's true. The best thing with Darnold is how young he is. What is he like? He's very young. 27, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5791.531

If I were them, I would try to sign him for like, hundred for four years, something like that. Try to get him like 25 a year and then try to trade JJ McCarthy. But supposedly he heard his ACL again. So maybe he doesn't even have the same. I just, that to me, that feels like the disaster is like, we had this guy, uh, Now we let him go because JJ's ready. And then what if JJ's not good?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I'll tell you this, they're dining a lot off that Celtics game on Saturday where the Celtics had played five and seven. They'd played Milwaukee the night before and it's like heated. My dad was saying it was like a third round playoff game kind of intensity. And then the next day the Celts have to run it back and they had no legs, they were dead. And Memphis kind of steamrolled them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, as a fan, I was in a situation once with a guy by the name of Tom Brady in 2001. Bledsoe gets hurt. Brady keeps his job, and we're kind of like... Is he going to be the starter? And we'll be like, I don't see what happens. And all of a sudden he won the Super Bowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just, you never know. I like it. The thing is Detroit, Detroit's defense mess. And I don't see how it really gets better. Right. So at least there's a little bit of a hole there. Philly has all the chemistry stuff. Green Bay. I'm not sure I trust Jordan Love. And just in general, I wouldn't pencil them in. Like Minnesota can play with all of these teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would at gunpoint pick them as well, but I don't feel great about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, I would still, life depends on it. I'm still doing Lions, KC. But I just think right now, mid-December. Is it mid-December? It is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Pittsburgh is the most complete all-around team right now. I don't know what that's going to mean.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Every fucking week, Russ makes three 40-yard plays or gets a pass interference. There's a play that moves the ball 35 to 50 yards, three times a game with him. And it happens every single week. And at some point, that's what they do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Where it's like the Chiefs get none of those plays. The Chiefs had one 30-yard play to Hopkins and he dropped it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He does a lot of like running over to the sideline and barking at the OC and shit like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Really strong start. Um, considered a diva pretty early on, did some good stuff, faded a little bit, and then A Star is Born was her Pittsburgh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But, I mean, you root for Russ every week. Yeah. He's surprisingly good. There's just no other way to say it. He's been doing this now for two and a half months.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, he likes weird. Tomlin likes weird. I mean, he works with Pickens, who's ready to start a giant fight at the end of every game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The other thing with Pittsburgh, their kicker. Is there another kicker you feel better about during any playoff game in bad weather than Boswell? He's like the new Tucker. He lined up like a 54-yarder yesterday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Tomlin, Boswell. I can't find the holes. It's really like, who's going to be that second receiver on third and nine? I know. But Mike Williams had a couple good plays yesterday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It especially happens with quarterbacks because it feels like the wrong offensive line... the wrong coach, the wrong team, and they could just get the shit kicked out of them for two years and just completely lose their confidence. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No question. They just don't want to pay more than 10 to 12. I'm guessing they have a whole thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You talked about the comeback though with him and how unusual that is. The other thing that's unusual for me, I always feel like quarterbacks hit that point of no return. Yeah. It just doesn't seem like they want to get hit anymore, which Rodgers was clearly the last seven, eight weeks. It's like, that guy doesn't want to get hit anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Rodgers, Wilson last year to me, just seemed like he didn't want to get hit anymore. That's why when he's a free agent this summer, I was just like, well, who cares? The guy doesn't, you know, he's made enough money. He won a Super Bowl. He doesn't want it anymore. I know. but it seems like he's okay with getting hit again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I don't know whether Tomlin, I just think Tomlin, Tomlin and Reed to me levitate over everybody else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That was another guy with the futures. I just did over on the Rams. I get that they only have seven players. Doesn't matter. Just pick them. As long as they have the QB and two receivers, they can move the ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Everyone's going to pick whoever the other team is. It's probably going to be the Chargers. She's going to be like that Browns game last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Ringer fantasy show hates Stroud big brothering. Doesn't understand it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's weighing in with his big picture thoughts on everyone he plays against. And it's like, dude, you're in your second year. Settle down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're 8-5. Baltimore's 8-5. Denver's 8-5 for the 5-6-7. So the key for the Chargers would have to be to somehow get that 5 seed and try to play Houston. But I don't know how realistic that is with their schedule. But if they can somehow get... What do they have left?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Tampa, Denver at home for the chargers. Then at Pat's home Vegas, like they could sweep that definitely in Baltimore. I think he's going to have a lot of trouble sweeping. Cause they had that weird Christmas situation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6367.41

It's funny that people get mad about the January Lamar thing. It's like... okay, when is it not going to happen? It's just until he doesn't do the January Lamar thing, that's the way it is. The Raven fans are very touchy about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He looks like a UFC fighter. He's like this UFC middleweight hanging out outside the octagon waiting to see who's going to fight in the next UFC card. But it's Chad Holmgren. He's 7'1".

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Tua media is the worst, though. The Tua fan base. The Tua people who think he was good yesterday. He was 23 for 37, no picks. It's like, all right, I watched the game. He had 10 terrible throws. Like, stop. I don't trust Tua.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now it's going to go the other way. Everyone's going to overvalue it in next year's draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6453.997

I'm in the camp of, and I have three teams, two that did badly and one that's doing well. But I just... I just want to have a good QB. That's all I care about. I feel like I can patch together everything else, but like anyone who has Lamar or Josh Allen or Burrow in any of these leagues, you're just like, fuck, that guy's probably going to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Before we go, New York, because you're in New York, Giants versus Jets. Which team is more down? Which franchise fan base is more down in the dumps right now between those two?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, it's tough because the Red Sox fans used to be like this too before we won the World Series where it's this rare combination of fatalism and thinking things aren't going to go wrong, but then before the season, like this crazy optimism. It's like, how are these two things the same? Where it's like March spring training in 2000, like, this is it. Here we go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Vegas, the odds for the Boston team, they could always put them down because they knew all these dumbasses would come from Massachusetts and bet it. Yeah. And the Jets have those fans, too, that they actually think it's going to work out. And then there's people like Fennessey who's like, this is going to be a beautiful disaster. Sean had the best tweet ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, we haven't seen their... I mean, what we did get to see tonight, especially was the Hartenstein piece, the whole, the kind of rebounding center rim protection guy that they just haven't had. Like we were talking about some of the matchups with them. One of the things that's interesting with Houston is Houston's first in the league in rebounding. They're almost averaging 50 rebounds a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, it is an F. They basically had, what, seven one-score games that they had the ball in the last three minutes, but somehow didn't win any of them. I don't know how they fixed it either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The funny thing, I watched that whole Jets-Miami game because they had Miami in a parlay. Miami was terrible the whole game. They looked like they didn't want to be there. They looked like they were the team that was 3-10. And the Jets were into it. They were trying to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Their offense was better. And somehow Miami still won the game, and it was basically because the Jets, as usual, just fucked up completely with three minutes left. F. Pretty brutal. Yes. So what would you rate this season from A-plus to F-minus? What's the grade for the season so far through 14 weeks?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, just as a whole. For content, storylines, excitement, everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Also, they're the rare public team that's actually really fun to watch every week. I genuinely enjoy watching their offense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would be at an A-, but the Drake May thing puts me at a solid A. I'm just out of my mind about how fun this Drake May thing is. I can't believe he's this good already. I just can't believe it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's crazy that he's this far along and... You know, I've had terrible quarterbacks and I've had the greatest quarterback ever. Like, and you just, I don't know if he's going to be even in the ballpark of somebody like Brady, but he's clearly a franchise guy. Like worst case scenario, I feel like he could at least be like Herbert.

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Well, I thought that new coach, I thought you guys bumped back Oh, no, that was the opposite.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think that was the only pick I lost, and it was over five minutes into the game.

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You know what? Sometimes I like the counting stats. I know the fancy kids. They love the advanced stats. And Kirk's got his efficiency map. And I love all that stuff too. But sometimes I like to know who gets the most rebounds every game. And Houston's getting 50 a game. So to Jacoby's point, Kirk, like... I do feel like they need Chet and Hartenstein in a Houston series.

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I did. I was like, new coach bump. Definitely. They figured out Caleb just getting rid of the ball fast.

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Well, that was like when Antonio Pierce got the job and they were smoking cigars after the first win. And then within nine months, Devante Adams is like, give me the fuck out of here.

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The only interim coach who actually should have been hired was Pit Boss Rich, the Raiders guy. Oh, Tom Cable? Rich Persuccia, whatever. Oh, Versace. Yeah, Versace. Special teams coach. Pit Boss Rich. Rich Persuccia. He'd come in with like, all right, guys, I'll be back in 20.

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It's not a head coach opening though, Bill. What are you talking about? Well, there might be if we lose these last four games. The problem is we're going to go to Arizona and he's probably going to throw for like 360 and beat Arizona and then Mayo will keep his job.

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Thanks for asking. Because I've obviously studied a lot. My dad is now wading into the draft waters as well. Just finding out about this TMAC character, this wide receiver. It doesn't feel like they're going to be a top five team, but there's no top five left tackle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Which sets us up for the trade down, which I'd feel great about if we had an owner that wasn't 83 years old and we had an actual GM and not an interim GM. But it feels like they have to trade back. I'm in the camp of, I would take Hunter if we had the third pick. Really? If he's there. He just seems like he's going to be a superstar. I'm going to change my mind on this a hundred times, but like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It just seems like sometimes these guys get in the draft and everybody's just like, that guy's special. And he just seems like that guy's special guy. You could have said this about Marvin Harrison last year, though. And he hasn't turned into that special. But there's no left tackle. This is the one draft where there's like no, even like a Joe Alt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No. Who's the defensive line guy? There's like an awesome defensive tackle. That's another one. Like, what is it goes wrong to have like an awesome defensive tackle? It's like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

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But the flip side with Houston is I still don't really know who their go-to guy is. I watch them game to game and it's like, because they're my favorite league pass team. And it's like, really? We're doing the Fred VanVleet step back? That's our shot with 50 seconds left? I don't think they know. They'll go to Shangoon sometimes, depending on the matchup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. It is the most fun destination for those guys. Yeah. It's amazing. Because the team's a disaster every year anyway, so we might as well have the same.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

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I had somebody who knows stuff tell me about the Pats. Like, if that job did become available, they said, you know, it's actually like a destination job now. Yeah. Because of Drake May. I was like, I need a cigarette. Six to midnight, Bill. Just give me a lighter. I just need a cigarette. I just want to reflect this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

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And if you're craving even more, we've got you covered with game day deals on pizza, burgers, tacos, and more. All season long. Uber Eats, official on-demand food delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms, taxes, and fees apply. See app for details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night.

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But I think with Vegas, the fun part would just be having some sort of personality with that franchise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

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I like your theory. Thank you. All right. I'm going A, A minus, B plus. Kyle Brandt. Yes. Great to see you as always. Craig. Thanks, Craig. Pleasure. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jacoby and Goldsberry. Thanks to Kyle and Craig. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti and Jesse Lopez. Thanks to Gahow and Jack.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

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Thanks to you guys for making it through our second podcast of the week. I'm going to have another one on Thursday. I'm going to have an NBA six-pack. I'm going to have million-dollar picks. I'm going to have a guest. Stay tuned. Get ready to buckle up. I'll see you on Thursday.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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But it's kind of like a last shot by a committee team, which makes me nervous in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Houston does have Dylan Brooks doing Dylan Brooks stuff. I think SGA would be the best guy in the West if Jokic wasn't averaging a 56.1 a game points, rebounds, and assists. He's in the 56 club right now. It's like him and Will Chamberlain. It's just the two of them. They're hanging out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Jokic is having the greatest statistical season of our adult lifetime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's early, right? I mean, Denver hasn't won two straight games for a month. I don't know what's going on with Jamal Murray. Jokic, I promise you, isn't like, oh, cool, I scored 104 points this weekend. That's not what he's about. But I don't know if he has a choice. I want to see if it's 47, 48 wins is kind of the cutoff for me.

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But if you're a six seed or a seven seed, I think it gets tough if there's some real candidates. I think Tatum's a candidate. SGA is absolutely a candidate. Jacobs, I think the thing that would... really clinch it for SGA having an argument, maybe even becoming a favorite as if OKC just becomes like a 65 win team, which I think is in play as hard as the West is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It seems like an accident when they lose. I'm always surprised when they lose, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You were like that, Jacobs. When you were taking a lot of shots, you were never happy. I know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC’s Revenge, NBA Cup Nitpicks, and NFL Season Fun Grades with David Jacoby, Kirk Goldsberry, Kyle Brandt, and Craig Horlbeck

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You want to do no looks and you wanted to do good entry passes and just play team basketball. That's like Jokic. Exactly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We did Disclosure, which is now one of the strangest movies of the 1990s. It's now kind of a comedy, as weird as that sounds. Me, Van Latham, Big Waz, we broke it all down. And you can watch it as well on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Speaking of YouTube channels, we launched our Ringer TV channel that has the Prestige TV podcast to watch. We're gonna do some fun, shorter videos on there.

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Yeah, because Murray is kind of like Jokic's basketball wife. And with Westbrook now, he's kind of flirting with the office assistant who just kind of moved into the office. And it's like, whoa, Jokic just went to get coffee with Westbrook. Does Murray know about this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That second game. The SGA thing, I always say this every year. It's just crazy to me after going to some of those games when he was a rookie that this is the guy he is now. That he's in a game with Luka where he just completely obliterates Luka and Luka's team. They have no answer for him.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

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But T-Mac for all that Orlando run when Grant Hill was hurt.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And I don't think this Jokic thing is as bad because Gordon's obviously really good. Christian Brown's been good.

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Porter's a good three-point shooter. It's not that bad, but at the same time, it does hurt.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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You went over on the Sixers.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I didn't want you to applaud yourself because you did go. By the way, I went under on the Clippers and under on the Lakers.

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It was like, welcome to the season, Jamal Murray.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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When my son leaves the pantry open and my beloved dog Murph is just like, cool, I'm going to eat all the potato chips. Is that Murph's fault or is that Ben's fault? That's right. That's right. Russ sometimes in crunch time, he's just going to eat all the potato chips.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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They're just not good enough. Here's Russ's value. We're giving everyone the night off. Russ, can you do everything and try to keep us close for this game against Charlotte, who's tanking anyway? Sure. Can we bring a conspiracy bill for a second?

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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He turned his hat backwards. It's like an over-the-top conspiracy bill. I wonder if Jamal Murray is healthy. Oh, okay. And if they feel like they're got teams going the wrong way in the playoffs and Jamal Murray is not a hundred percent healthy and they lose. And then that becomes the excuse for why they fell apart down the stretch. And then it becomes harder to clean house and fire everybody.

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And now you just do it now. So there's no excuse. you 50 50, maybe he's going to be where he was in December for the playoffs. Maybe not, but either way, it's a queen. It's a reset button either way. It's just, listen, I'm not saying conspiracy bill. I'm still conspiracy bill.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Listen, conspiracy bill just came in. I'm not saying he's always right. Sometimes he's crazy, but something doesn't pass the sniff test about the timing with this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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He needs to squeeze the PED juice out of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Like Porter Jr. Wizards? Flag, Sar, Porter?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We're going to take a break and bring in Cousin Sal, and we're going to do the West, where Denver fits in, and whether we think there's any chance. Where Denver fits out. Or where Denver fits out.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Let's take a break, and then Sal's going to come in. Swing it to the biggest golf event of the year with FanDuel, where every putt and drive can bring you closer to victory, or in my case, closer to all the putts and drives. Speaking of FanDuel, our friends over there have some amazing offers. For the first major this week at Augusta, check it out. All customers get from FanDuel a no-sweat bet.

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All right, we're recording this on Tuesday, early evening in Augusta, Georgia, East Coast time. We're here for the Masters. We brought a whole crew, including Nathan Hubbard, your fairway rolling partner, Cousin Sal. He's going to be joining us later. David Chang and baby doll James Dixon, who's still talking. You can't hear him. But we're going to do a bunch of segments for this pod.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And even if there will be a hole-in-one this week, don't forget to check out our Ringer specials on FanDuel Sportsbook as well. We made a bunch of Bunch of bets and props. FanDuel, your go-to for betting on Augusta. Tee off of the variety of bet types and live bet stuff as the tournament drama unfolds. So don't wait.

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Visit FanDuel.com slash BS to download FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook and swing for some green. Must be 21 plus in president select states or 18 plus in president DC. Opt-in required bonus issued as non-retrievable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandler.com.

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Give them a problem call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Nissan. If you're planning on an adventurous 2025, you're going to need a car that can keep up with you and conquer anything.

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See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always secure cargo. All right, Cousin Sal is here, our friend. We walked the course today. We're going to talk about that later. The Masters. Your agent, James Babydoll Dixon, is here. What a day. So much fun. We'll talk about that next segment.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We're going to talk about the Denver Nuggets and the West and basketball and the NBA playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We did above average on our locks. I'm really upset about how we handled the Pacific. The LA teams, Sacramento and Phoenix. Phoenix and the two LA teams ruined my over-unders.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We have FanDuel. I introduced these to you. Kind of buried on the FanDuel Sportsbook NBA page where they have two advance each round. And I don't remember seeing those last year. I was incredibly fascinated by them. So round two, to make round two, that means you're winning in round one. And we're taping this before a couple of the Tuesday night games.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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There's going to be some standing shenanigans. We have five teams that have 32 losses. Denver is one of them who just fired their coach, Gia. Is Denver in a post Malone time period right now?

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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OKC is minus 1300 to make round two house. And that jumped out to me immediately because what if they played Minnesota or the Clippers? I think OKC would beat either of those teams, but I don't think they're 13 to one favorites to beat the Clippers if that was the series. Or Golden State?

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I should have mentioned that too. So Clippers are plus 130 to make round two. Minnesota is plus 154 to make round two. Memphis is plus 350. But OKC is minus 1300.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We did not expect... What happened when we left the Masters? Because when you leave the Masters, you have to give your phone. You're not allowed to have your phone on the course. We didn't have our phone for six hours. So literally anything can happen. And we're thinking we leave the course and we're going to find out the market has dropped like 150 points.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We let Vandal, but you added something wrong here. And then the Lakers are minus 172. Gold State's minus 152. Denver is plus 106. And Houston is plus 114, which is another one that jumped out to me because they're going to have, we know they're the two seed. They're playing as well as they played all season. And it's two seven. And I just think they're going to be favored.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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So if I get them a plus one 14, that's great. But I think that whole list, what shocked you the most out of those eight teams? So, I mean, that's weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Every once in a while, they're like Memphis had that year where they were the two seed, but nobody believed in it and there was good value in them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Because they'll have home court.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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So right now, Minnesota's 7 and Memphis is 8. And Houston's 2. Argo will be playing one of those. Golden State has two easy games in the next two. It's bizarre. Denver just fired their coach. They've lost four in a row. And they're going to be playing the Kings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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the Grizzlies at home, and then at Houston in the last game of the season, which Houston might not care about because they'll have the two seed locked up. So I don't know. I think Minnesota versus Houston, just fundamentally, if that's a 2-7 series house, where would your money be in that series?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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So maybe that explains these prices. I guess the problem for Fando and just trying to set these prices in general is if you have one upset, one anything happening. Yeah. Now all of a sudden I have Denver plus 106, but all of a sudden they're in the seventh spot playing Houston. And maybe they'd be favored in that series because of Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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He just took out. Now, Curry, the problem with Golden State and why they're going to be so hard to figure out is they're an older team. Right. Their best three guys are either old or getting old. And they have a situation like they play two really hard Thursday, Friday games, and then they play Sunday against that young, big, powerful Rockets team, and they just looked old. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Yeah, some sort of bad tariff news. And instead, all these texts about, oh my God, Nuggets, can you believe Denver? And they fired their coach and their GM. And we're going to be one of many podcasts who talks about this tonight. But a true stunner. I don't remember. I have a bunch of thoughts on this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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But at the same time, I thought the Rockets, they beat OKC and Golden State in the same weekend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Yeah. They're good. With nothing to play for. And they talk a bunch of shit. They're good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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He was talking shit to Steph.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I should have flagged this for you. Houston was plus 790 like five days ago to make the Western Finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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As a two-seed, they were basically getting eight-to-one odds. And if you just price that out, they're going to be the favorites or close in both series, right? Houston's plus 470 now. I think looking at the odds, the shocking thing to me is how much respect they give the Lakers and how afraid. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I'm just saying the Lakers are being treated almost like they're a defending champ type situation. They're minus 172 to win a round. They're plus 168 to win two rounds. And there's a chance they might, you know, maybe they don't even have home court in round two, right? Potentially they couldn't, but it just seems like a lot of respect.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Well, the problem is if Denver drops to seven out of nowhere. Yeah. And it's Houston versus Denver in a 2-7. I think looking at the odds, the best odds to me seem to be Minnesota to make the West finals. I think the odds have adjusted correctly. But Minnesota basically 7-1 to make the West Finals to win two rounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I really wanted the Clips to have better odds because I thought maybe they would be the sleeper pick. But plus 420 to win two rounds, there's no value at all. No, no value. And there might be underdogs both rounds. That doesn't make sense. And if you really wanted to get nuts, do Memphis plus 1550 to win two rounds. That's insane.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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But there's a chance they could get the seven seed and be in the 2-7, right? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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But to fire your coach and GM with a week to go in the season, when you have a chance to be like a top four playoff seed, this is like the NBA we grew up with. The NBA is going nuts again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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So that's basically what 1550 is. So, House, for that first round, the advance to round two, if somehow the Clippers are the eight seed and OKC's the one seed... and you have OKC at minus $1,300 to advance to round two, I would be fucking nervous with that one. I don't think the Clips can beat OKC, but I think they can make you nervous if you have a lot of OKC money, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, all hell breaks loose in Denver. I'm at the Masters. This podcast is nuts. It's next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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So to make the finals, this is three rounds. OKC is minus 145. Lakers plus 650. I just don't think that's... They're going to be underdogs in two of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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You have to... Lakers plus 650, Golden State 7-1, Denver 10-1, Clips 16-1, Minnesota 21-1, Houston 24-1, and Memphis 70-1. So the case for Golden State or the Lakers is this. Other than that, they have famous players and a good infrastructure and all that stuff. What does your record have to be? What's the worst possible record you could have to make the Western Finals?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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A little math question for you guys. I mean, including the playoff, like all that. First three rounds, what's the worst record you could have and still make the finals? 4-3, 4-3. Yeah. 12-9. 12-8. 12-9. Yeah. So if you think of it that way, it's like, could a team with Luca and LeBron go 12 and nine over 21 games? It's like, yeah, that seems realistic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Could Golden State go 12 and nine for three rounds? And it's like, yeah, they're going to have a game like they had Sunday where they look old. Steph has three points. You know, even think of like when they played Memphis a couple of years ago in 22. Yeah. And they got blown out in game five and they just won in game six. When you think about 12 and nine, it's just not that hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Think about the Lakers like 12 and nine. Let's say there's three incredible Luka games. There's three. Let's give LeBron two incredible LeBron games. All right, now I have five. Let's give Reeves... One awesome game. Sure. Where they win just because Reeves is great. Now I have six of the 12. All right, now let's have LeBron and Luka are awesome in the same game game. There's two more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

2141.418

You can get to 12 pretty easily.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

2157.29

Well, so here's the case for OKC. Yeah. they're gonna finish the season 68 and 14 67 and 15 and then it becomes math right so over six months they lost 14 times right and now we're gonna get to the playoffs and they're gonna lose nine times in 21 games right that's where it gets stupid this was the case for the celtics last year at some point the math takes over

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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But OKC did get their ass kicked the other day against the Lakers. And it's like, why did they get their ass kicked? Were they showing anything? Did they call off the dogs? Or did this actually mean something? I don't know. Houston seems to be, I would say, most disrespected in the West.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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But they're going to be the two seed. And they're going to have home court in the first two rounds. True story. 24-1 is a good price.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

226.117

And Denver... Memphis being the other one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

260.37

Well, but think back to the 80s, though. I remember, didn't Larry Brown, like he was coaching the Nets and he just left for Kansas City or for Kansas University with like two weeks ago in the season, they fired him. It was the kind of thing that would happen all the time with the league we loved.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And the league, even though it still has your Sacramento's and these, but now I feel like, here's my theory. I'm going to throw this theory at you. I'm listening. The league is so deep now and there's so much talent. It ties into something we talked about when we did the over under pods with Ursula. It's like shit. there's gonna be some unhappy teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Teams that thought they were gonna be really good, teams that have max guys, teams that have this model that used to work of, we have three stars, we have two really good stars. And they're going to be like two games under 500 in February wondering what they'll happen. And I'm looking at the West because the West is a way deeper conference than the East.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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. . . . .. ac P P P P P P P P P P P P P,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a sol to in in in in in in in in in in in in in a. Ch P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P What's the case? In the first place... By the way, 22 to 1.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And then, Sal, you jumped on a bandwagon. Why is that? He's a bandwagon guy. I haven't heard anyone else take him. Bandwagon pick. Oh, so many people. Really? I love it. 16-1 on Fando. What was your case?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We did hit one bet already at the Masters that we'd run into Scott Van Pelt, and he would take us to the Butler Cabin, and we would get a group photo, which I put on my Instagram.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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The Butler Cabin. I haven't seen House that excited before. Probably, I'm trying to think of a scenario where you would have the look on your face that you had, and I think it involves the word free massage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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The East is more like a traditional, you have the really good teams, you have some good playoff teams, some mediocre teams, and then crappy teams, right? That's the model we're used to. The West, like everybody's talented and everybody thought they were going to be in the mix. So look at all the teams that were unhappy just this season. Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Kudos to Nathan Hubbard, who's asleep right now because he had 14 pieces of pizza. But he was like, let's go up there. We'll run into someone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Baby doll only got scolded three times for smoking. For smoking, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we ran an SVP, saw the Butler cabin, which was about the size of the room we're in now, almost. It's weird, it's small.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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You know, it's also always fun to run into Van Pelt cause he's gigantic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Six, six, five. You always forget how like tall he is. Yeah. And just famous. What a homie. Great guy. Um, My master's winner is Rory McIlroy at plus 650. I always make fun of you for being sentimental about Rory. You do. Somebody that drove us around a little bit the last two days, Matt, who we've been fortunate enough to get to know a little bit. And he had some Rory intel about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Rory was kind of... popping back here and play the course and just making a couple extra trips.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

3279.471

Just that Rory seemed especially focused this year. And I just like the moment. I mean, he's running out of time, you know, from a... He's in his extended prime now, I would say. I don't think there's a lot more years where he's in the mix like this as a favorite. And this feels like, to me, if it's going to happen, it's got to be this year or next year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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traded their best player, one of the five best guys in the league. They just said, fuck it. We don't like where this is going. They trade him. The Lakers were unhappy too. They were trying to do all kinds of stuff mid-season. They make a trade. Memphis fires their coach. Denver just fired their coach at GM. Sacramento fired their coach, traded their best player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I mean, remember when we get in our forties, are we still on your prime at this point in golf? I mean, Tiger won in 2019.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I don't know. We're around when it should happen again pretty soon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Is he the number one player or team you've live bet the most? Oh, wow. And then I'll ask Sal. I think for Sal, it's the Chiefs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Those are my three. I think mine are the Brady Pats. Oh, that's a good one. Like halftime bets, stuff like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We're coming back. Man, I miss those days. All right, we're going to take a break and come back and do a little Masters draft. All right, for this last segment, I always make fun of NFL pregame shows when they have too many people on, and we're about to have a six-person segment. But we only have four mics, so I think it's going to work well. Dave Chang joined us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Nathan Hubbard joined us. Hello. And James Babydoll Dixon is here. Yo, Babydoll. So glad to be here with you guys. We have never been at the Masters together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Never been in the Masters with Sal. I've been with Chang. I've been with Nathan. I've been with House, obviously, who no longer has a mic. Maybe that's a good thing. You guys don't need to share the mic. We're going to bring Chang in. But I want to share the mic. Well, Chang has a bum shoulder.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

3487.78

Yeah. He's playing hurt. He's an inspiration to all of us and to everybody except Tiger Woods, who's not here. But there's a lot of good golfers here. Nathan, we didn't talk about, we both picked Rory to win this Masters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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What was your case quickly?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

3518.812

See, that was much better and much smarter and more stat-driven than my take, which is like Rory's now hitting his mid-late 30s. And the vibes are good. If it's ever going to happen, it's happening right now. And Matt, our guy, told us that he's been here a couple times. That was my case. Plus 650. We're going to do a draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Phoenix tried to trade everybody on their team but Devin Booker for four months. They fired their coach last year. They're probably firing him again. That's six teams in the West house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

3535.218

You didn't trust Matt with your phone, but you do with the Masters pick, huh? No, I wanted to put my phone. I like getting my phone. We all left our phones with Matt, but Simmons, I don't know where Matt's going to go. What if his car gets stolen? Okay. We're doing this draft and FanDuel is going to put odds on it. And we are going to do a Thursday, Friday draft. The 48 hour frenzy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

3556.219

I think we're calling this. Each of us are going to be two golfers. lowest score wins and people can bet on this on FanDuel Sportsbook. So if you like my pair more than everyone else's pair, put some odds on it. You don't have a mic. You can't talk. You talk when I talk to you. You sound like Alec Baldwin's wife. You're sharing baby's mic. Do you have something to say?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I think you have to mix all of the sandwiches on the, on the course. Oh, that's pretty good. And then eat them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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All right, let's do the draft, and then we're going to interrogate Baby on some stuff. Chang, I'm going to give you the first pick of anyone for Thursday, Friday. So it's not to win the tournament. Just who do you think is going to be the leader Thursday and Friday or have a really good score?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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But at least that's not like, okay. All right, that's not a Hail Mary. This Denver thing is a Hail Mary.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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All right. I'm going fifth and I'm taking Beefy Bryson, Bryson DeChambeau with my fifth pick. All right, House, you get to hold the mic down. You get two straight picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We're going to the playoffs and we're going to get smoked and everybody wants to play us and we're in a situation where on Saturday, Sunday, teams might be tanking to try to get a matchup against us. That's the level Denver was at with the way they were playing lately.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

3818.464

R.I.P. Well, then he had to change caddies. All right. I'm up. I'm taking Zander. God. Wow. Steady pick. Best guy on the board. Wow. Big year last year for him. Maybe it'll continue at the Masters. So how says Rahm and Thomas? I have Beefy Bryson and Xander as my two. Baby, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Koepka... Listen, I love on this podcast when people suck up to the Swedes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

399.709

It's a good question. I'm going to try to answer it. Good. I think they thought their season was shot. I think they decided... I think they're right. This coach-GM situation, they were going to get rid of both of them. Josh Kroenke basically said that in the press conference. We're going to do something after the season. Why not now? Why not see if we can save it? This is a Hail Mary.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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All right, so here's who we have. Chang has Scotty and Straka. Sal has Morikawa and Cam Smith. Nathan has Rory and Lowry. Baby has Bergie and Kepka. I have Bryson and Xander, and House has Rahm and Thomas. FanDuel, at some point tomorrow, will have odds on all of these pairings with our names. And people can bet on this for Thursday, Friday. And I'm getting all the info from them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4040.815

Who got bet on the most? I really want to have the most bets. You do?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4049.037

Looking at this, I think House is going to have the most bets. I do, too. Rahm and Thomas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4053.678

I think House will have the most action, which makes House public, which means he's not going to win. They're public. So there we go. That's it for our big draft. Check it out. I think we're calling it Ringer 48-hour frenzy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And then we might do, we were talking about maybe something with the 16th hole number of people that hit the water.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Thursday, Friday. Something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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That's where we go. All right. We're going to take one more break and then come back with some more master stories. And now for a special part of today's show, Forward Thinkers of the Game brought to you by Workday, in which we discuss the players who brought something fresh to the court. When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. They asked me to talk about a player that made me think of what I just said. Steph Curry. If you think 21st century, what NBA player impacted professional basketball and basketball the most?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

41.348

We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you liked White Lotus, go check out Prestige TV. Go check out The Watch because we covered everything that happened in the season finale. I put up a new Rewatchables, The Saint, that went up over the weekend because Val Kilmer passed away, so we want to pay homage to him. I am at the Masters right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4122.412

The three-point shooting, the skill that Steph brought to it, not only revolutionized how they played basketball in the NBA, but then inspired this whole new generation of players in high school and college and even affected the women's game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Players like Caitlin Clark, it all basically starts with Steph when his career really starts taking off with the Warriors in 2013 and 14, and it changed the geometry of basketball. So that's one example. Anyway, You can learn more about how Workday is changing everything at Workday.com. All right. Now it's just the four of us. Nathan and House have Fairway Rolling. They're taping tomorrow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4161.752

They're doing their big master's preview. So I want people to listen to that. What you can't get on Fairway Rolling is what it was like to walk the course with baby today. What a day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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It was like a sports documentary narrative series that nobody signed up for.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I think House was. I think House really loves listening to anyone talk about golf.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

430.458

A point to a team that's had Jokic as their best player during this half decade he's had. That's one of the great half decades anyone's had offensively in the history of the league. And they have one title to show for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4307.457

Well, so Sal, Baby does this thing where he's convinced everybody who's ever met him knows who he is. Most famously, when he accosted Oprah Winfrey in Jimmy's dressing room and did Oprah, Oprah, you remember me, you remember me, and she didn't. And then he's like, no, Oprah, you remember me. Right. And it's a famous story. So we were wondering if he would do that today in the golf course.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Well, so can I get your background? So 17, and he's like, I'm going to... I'm going to get Cam Smith's attention.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4356.469

Yeah, with the Wake Forest thing. Yes. And we're like, baby, definitely don't do that. He's doing a practice round. He's trying to figure out distances. He's not going to acknowledge you. He's like, no, no, no. I think I can get him. Yes. So he's walking by eating a banana. And what happens? Cam, Cam.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4397.528

He seemed like he paused for a split second. Yeah. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4404.383

Well, so then there was another one that I thought was a better one. So they're Rory McIlroy. Chang, how dubious were you of this? When Baby said, I can get Rory to come over on the 18th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4462.743

Can we unwind that for a second?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4464.403

I don't want to say I'm neighbors with him at the Bears Club, but I'm neighbors with him at the Bears Club.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4489.677

So that Bears Clubhouse, that was like the fourth Colbert extension? Oh, shit. When he tried to sign the fees to the houses.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4530.041

There's like five things you kind of have to see at the Masters. And one of them is you have to stand behind the 18 tee to see how hard that is to just thread the needle with the amount of pressure that you might be facing on 18. It's like dead uphill.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4548.624

Only really one spot to hit it and 19 things can go wrong. Not to mention all the people lined up that you feel like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4621.726

And you guys are neighbors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4661.585

No. Well, as it turns out, these guys are practice rounding and trying to figure out their shots and the distances on every drive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4676.333

I would have been concerned.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4694.474

Sal, can you tell the origin? But there's always tomorrow. Can you tell the origin of the baby doll story? Because you named him baby doll.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4742.569

So you were hoping because everyone calls you Baby Doll and you call everybody Baby Doll.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4747.333

Somewhere in Rory's head, as he's figuring out the course, how his swing is, the distances, that the baby doll would trigger like a Pavlovian response.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

476.237

Are they 5-9 over their last 14? Yeah. I saw they're 12-13 last 25.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4783.438

Is that the Wayne Gretzky quote? You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

481.418

They don't play defense. 19th net rating. 22nd defensive rating in their last 25 games. And we like looking at the net rating stuff. It's a nice little snapshot. You know, sometimes you can overreact to it one way or the other. Sometimes you have teams that are in the vicinity of where their playoff spot's going to be. Maybe they cool the Jets a little bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4871.172

We're shy about you told the person who made us a pimento cheese sandwich.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4904.12

No, when he was like right there with Stewart. Right. It's like neck and neck.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

4954.807

He said he needed a hat because the sun was hot and for some reason he was scared about skin cancer for once.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

501.38

Other times, it's a real sign either something's going really wrong or really right. Like with the Clippers, with Kawhi back, all their net rating stuff is really good here for two solid months now. And it's like, let's take this team seriously.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

5016.426

I think one of the masters is so polite. Yeah. And when people would get mad at baby for smoking in areas that you weren't supposed to smoke in, it wasn't like a... Sir, you're going to have to put that out. It was more like a disappointed, sir, can you please?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Baby, what's the worst, most depressing designated smoking area you've ever smoked in? Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

513.606

Detroit, who I think is going to be a six seed, I'm not taking them 100% seriously, but the math is the math, and the math says they're a pretty good team. Denver, the math said this team can't guard anybody. The on-off stats with Jokic, which I mentioned Sunday with Russillo, and are the case if you're going to talk MVP for him, which I think today probably hurt that cause a little bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

537.863

But the on-off for him where they were the best offense in NBA history when he's on the court and they're 30th in the NBA when he's off the court, that's all you need to know. There's never been a disparity like that in the history of basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

556.537

And look, I think this is... Well, when you say team building, though, do you blame Mike Malone at all? Because you and I both watch a lot of Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

5794.621

I was, I was thinking, cause I was thinking about today, cause I'd been to, uh, I went to the U S open, uh, I went to a couple of golf tournaments in the last couple of years. And all these other courses, like basically every other course that has a tournament, they're also, the tournament comes in and out. It's the courses and built for the tournament.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

5813.054

It's built for 52 weeks a year of having members. And then they kind of shoehorn the tournament into it. And there'll be porta potties and weird cart paths and the parking's weird and Things are disjointed. All this place cares about is this week, right? I mean, they have other stuff. They have the members and all that stuff, but it's all like a long game for this one week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And every single thing has to be perfect from the moment you show up to when you walk toward the thing and you go through the gates. Every single thing you see... they've really put thought into. And I just I appreciate that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

5869.227

Well, and then we talk about this every time we come, but the no phone thing is actually a real advantage. Even Sal, we were worried about Sal. I think I did okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Well, I went to my pocket like seven times for the first half hour.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And then I felt like... you know, it was a little like a little weight low to see when Saxon starts reading halfway through the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And it's like, maybe there's more interesting. Maybe that, maybe that's funny. Maybe I can test myself.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And it's like, you were like, maybe I don't have to try to figure out how to bet on this practice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Chang, were you disappointed Sal didn't eat more?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We're going to be back Thursday for more stuff. Yeah. Chang, you have a beautiful face. Sal, you have a beautiful life. Baby, you're just beautiful in general.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Thank you. Thank you to you three. Thanks to House of Nathan as well. Thanks to Gahow and Kyle and Eduardo for helping us out today on the pod. And we're going to be back on Thursday. Don't forget to check out the Prestige TV podcast and the rewatchables as well. If you missed White Lotus, if you missed our rewatchables, we did on The Saint with Val Kilmer.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And I hope you're checking out Celtic City on Max as well. We will see you on Thursday. Must be 21 plus and president-select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and president DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Yeah, because they were, so they were like 5 million under the second apron. But next year, they're going to get killed by the apron. And I think they seem really scared of it. And, you know, there's some real money stuff with this team that has to be mentioned.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I have a bunch of people we did not expect when we were walking off the course and got our phones back today that Denver had cleaned house. So I'm going to talk about that at the top with Joe House. We're going to talk NBA. We're going to talk Western Finals odds and a whole bunch of stuff with Sal and House. And then we did a bunch of Masters stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I think around the league, if you talk to people who know shit or who have a vested interest in it, they're like, thank God Denver's not spending more money. They have this incredible asset and they seem pretty good being middle of the road. It's the same thing people felt about the New England Patriots during the last 10 years of Tom Brady. Thank God they're not spending more than they are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Then you look at the Philadelphia Eagles in your division and they're super aggressive and they're like trying to maximize the moment. I think that's what most fans want. I would not say Denver's doing that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I'd say middle of the road. They have the best player in the league, and they're not even a second apron team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I have a couple other theories in this. The play-in, I think, puts a crazy amount of pressure on these teams. Not only do you not want to be in the play-in, you're in a situation where you could just lose two play-in games and then you're not even in the playoffs, which was a real thing for Denver, right? True story.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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So this is why it's not a panic move, but it's a total panic move where you're like five days left. Everybody wants to play us. Our defense is in shambles. We lost a catastrophic game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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game in overtime to minnesota that really feels like that tilted their season in all these different ways like does malone still have a job if they win that game maybe well they didn't play two of their guys that game right i mean i know but it was just how they lost and how bad westbrook was it was and how great yokich was it was agonizing so you have that piece um

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

732.028

You know, a lot of times when we're hinting at stuff in pods and we're talking about stuff and we're talking about scuttlebutt around the league and people go, where's that coming from? And shit gets aggregated, but it always seemed hazy. This Booth Malone thing, I mean, I talked about it. Everybody who's had a podcast has alluded to or talked about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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I almost, and I really regret I didn't do it. You know you have the tweet lined up and you have the draft? Yeah. there was something Malone got something for, like he won the most games in Nuggets history. There was some sort of ceremony and it was like a short video and it was Calvin Booth giving him something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I had this really sarcastic tweet and it was like rare footage of Calvin Booth and Mike Malone interacting. And I was ready to tweet it out. And I was like, you know what? That's not worth it. That's going to become a thing. People will be mad. And I was just like, I didn't do it. But that's how bad it was. I had this tweet lined up like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Because just that they interacted seemed like it was an amazing event.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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The media part of it or the Coach GM part?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Well, you know we're getting the now they tell us piece. TM Brian Curtis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Ramona kind of wrote it in the beginning of the season. I think Zach, if Zach had been writing for ESPN, I think Zach would have... had something pretty major at some point.

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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We created a little draft that you can bet on a FanDuel Sportsbook and a whole bunch of Other fun props, bets. And then last but not least, James Babydoll Dixon. He comes in. We've talked about him on the podcast a bunch. And we talked to him and Chang and Sal about Augusta and smoking and some of the stuff that makes Augusta what it is. So that is all coming up. First, our friends from Pearl Jam.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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So you don't think it's Zeke Nagy extension? Reggie Jackson. Peyton Watson, who could be something eventually, maybe someday. There's some really bad team building. We knew there might be signs of trouble. Kevin O'Connor, when he was writing for The Ringer, did that big piece about the Nuggets and their team building. And Calvin Booth gave all these secrets in the piece.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Which is like GM 101, don't do that. If you're doing stuff that's working, don't talk about it. What is the upside? What's the upside of... Here, let me tell this reporter all of these things we're doing that we think are cutting edge. How are you winning with that? Now you're just giving your secrets to the other 29 teams in the league. Again. And he does this whole link thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And it was just weird because it felt credit grabby. And anytime something's credit grabby, You know, like, well, why is this guy doing it? Obviously, he had a thing with Malone and it was already there jacking. Where's the boss?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Remember he tried to disown it after? He was like, I don't know. I thought I was off the record.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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And it was fucking bullshit because KFC did a good job with that story. Anyway, so this thing was a problem all year. I think it affected the team and then they finally acted. I'm going to throw this at you. The great NBA asset wastes. Oh, no. So remember when we were kids and Kareem was just on shitty teams for like seven years?

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Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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He was on the Bucs forever. They had nobody. Like basically Bobby Dandridge and that was it. Oscar was washed up. And he was still great. And then finally he's like, I'm going to LA. Goes to the Lakers, but they trade a lot to get him. Then the Kermit Washington fight happens.

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And it's just, it felt like there's seven years there where it's like, Jesus, is Kareem, he's the best player in the league. Is he going to be on a really good team? And then magic shows up and the rest is history. But there's been some good ones over the years. Like even LeBron in the mid 2000s on those Cleveland teams. I was like, oh man, they're traded for Ben Wallace now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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Oh, they're paying that much for Anton Jameson? Kobe mid-2000s, partly his fault because he's a check out. T-Mac for basically the entire 2000s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver’s a Mess! Plus, Live at the Masters With the Simmons Crew

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That was a good one. Moses when we were kids on the Rockets.

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The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Coming up next, are you feeling positive, Kirk Goldsberry? I'm feeling extremely positive, Bill Simmons. We are going to go so positive on the NBA, and that's next. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here, and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sportsbook any way you want. Fun markets.

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In a lot of ways, they inverted what the Celtics did last year, where instead of being built around these two great wings like the Celtics were with three-point shooting and defense, they inverted it where they're built around these two great guards with three-point shooting and with defense. And if you're not ready for them on the wrong night,

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or you think you're ready for them, but you're not, or they're hitting shots, they're basically unbeatable. I don't know how this is going to translate to the playoffs yet, but the fact that we have them and OKC, who is on a winning streak right now, who's going to win 60-plus games, who's just a regular season monster,

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And then the sleeping giant Celtics team who just clearly is on cruise control now until March, April. But then some of the other teams we have, like just the depth of contenders at the top and the unpredictability of figuring out, even though I'm in the, oh, it's going to be OKC Boston camp. But like I watched Cleveland last night, I'm like that Cleveland's going to be tough.

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Like Boston's got to get their shit together. Cleveland's probably getting the one seed. Boston's going to have to win a playoff game in a series in Cleveland. And that team is about as confident as it gets right now. So I would throw them in too in the all positive pod.

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It's aged really nicely. Are you a fan, Kurt Goldsberry, Friday Night Lights? Of course. I mean, it's Texas. It's like the New Testament of Texas, I think. I love it. Well, now the movies become underrated, which is one of the things, one of the reasons we want to do that podcast. Anyway, you can watch that on The Ringer Movies. You can watch it as a Spotify video podcast as well.

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Well, don't count out the zombie magic. Of course. They're just kind of wandering around in a dark, empty building with like, it's Tristan De Silva. Ugh. And he's like, fucking where'd this guy come from? You know, the Knicks, they're a half game behind the Celtics. All the Celtic fans I know, including myself, are very focused on it. They have two players playing just out of control. Fantastic.

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And I want to talk about them in a little bit. The big thing for them is they got Bridges going. And I remember saying at the start of the year, I don't know, three weeks in, I was like, what was the point of this Bridges trade? If they're just going to make him this accessory that stands in the corner, like this is a really good offensive player.

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Who's we've watched him carry a Nets team a couple of years ago and they would actually run crunch time stuff. Why are they just kind of sticking them over there? You look at his November stats. He was, you know, 14.7 points a game, 29% from three. He took, in November, 15 games. How many free throws do you think he took?

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Yeah, he took six. So I look at that and I'm just like, you're just playing in this guy in the corner. And that was what the eye test was backing him up. But in December, it really seems like they tried to get him involved. He had that big day last week, but he's at 21 and a half a game now. And it's, he's kind of moved into that him and Ananobi kind of sharing that number three score thing.

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Some of that's predictable, but some of it, you know, was seemed pretty bleak for him in November. It's like, what are we doing with this guy? Especially with everything you gave up now. I think they've figured out at least the four. The thing that worries me about them is there's going to be a couple of buyout guys in February. And that's a number one buyout candidate team.

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Because you're going to a team that has a chance to make the finals. You're going to play. You get to be in New York City. If I'm making buyout destination, if I'm whoever, I'm looking at them.

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But who else was on that team? Is Chris Jenkins available?

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The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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You can watch all the videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons podcast. YouTube channel. You can hear Kirk Goldsberry. He's popping all over the place in the Ringer NBA show. He's written some pieces for the Ringer. He's going to be on in one second with me because we are doing the all positive end of the year NBA podcast. It's next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam.

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This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan.

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Uber Eats, the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into. it makes it even better.

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I love, because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them, if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime. Visit amazon.com slash prime to get more out of whatever you're into. All right.

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Two more things on the Knicks that tie into what you said about why this has been a good season in the All Positive MBA podcast. We have to keep going on this. One, Towns. Last two years, 21, eight rebounds. This 50-40 guy, I kind of felt like he had maxed out from a potential standpoint, but It was hard to tell how much it had to do with Gobert being on the court with him.

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He was always 25 feet from the basket on offense. Ant was starting to have the ball a lot. And it was like, well... Maybe on this next team, there's a case. If you're playing him as like the stretch five, but he also has this rebounding block shot burden. Maybe there's something else here. Well, there's something else here. He's 24 and a half points, 13.5 rebounds, 55% field goal, 45% from three.

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Eye test wise, the most fun I've had watching him And the concerns we had in the summer about, ah, this guy in New York, I don't know, man, he's a little weird. I don't, this kid, there's a version of this where this goes bad. It's been the opposite. I think this is actually, they brought out the best in him and I think they've really responded to him. And I think they have a great fan base.

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I think they understand like, Let's constantly get this guy going. Let's really be super duper, super duper supportive of him. And it's working. And this is the most fun I've had watching him play basketball on top of the Brunson piece and how good those guys are playing off each other already, you know, and that's only going to get better as the season goes. So gigantic win.

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Did you see this from towns? Had you given up?

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They took a real gamble with how expensive that deal was. And you're like, and we talked about it last summer. I didn't love the deal for either team. It made more sense from a talent standpoint for the Knicks, but the money was so disarming. You just look at it and you're like, man, if we miss on this, there's no moves up, man. We are now pushing all the chips in.

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But it worked out and it's been great. And I really like Towns, even though he's such a dumbass sometimes on the court. And we would always, Russell and I would always make fun of him during the playoffs because he would just, you know, get the fifth foul in the third quarter and the worst, but 40 feet from the basket, just bumping over somebody on a pick.

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but he seems like a good guy and by all accounts he is. And you could see when he came back to Minnesota, you know what he meant to the franchise, but just how his Knicks teammates reacted to him in Minnesota when they showed the video, it's just like clearly really liked.

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And I'm just glad it worked out because we've seen this league, a lot of these guys, sometimes when it feels like they can go either way from a talent standpoint, sometimes it goes the wrong way. Like you look at Zion right now, um, Leading to the second thing, this I also love about the league and the All Positive NBA podcast.

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Dallas not locking up Jalen Brunson leads to this amazing kind of sliding doors domino situation. It leads to Brunson and New York and all of these other things that happen with them where they become a really fun, legitimate contender for a fan base that's needed for 20 years. It eventually leads to Kyrie in Dallas and him rejuvenating his career.

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And being one of the 15 to 20 most fun guys to watch in the league again, I'd given up on that. It happened. It caused a Brooklyn rebuild because Kyrie had a chance to go to Dallas, right? So that leads to whatever and them trading Kyrie and KD. So why is the Brooklyn rebuild important? Because Donovan Mitchell, who wanted to go to New York City, and I will die on that hill, had nowhere to go.

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All right, Kurt Goldsberry is here. We are taping this on Tuesday morning, New Year's Eve, trying to put this up before everybody goes out. And we are doing an all positive NBA podcast. Kurt, the NBA is taking a lot of hits, even on this podcast in a couple of ways. A lot of complaining.

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Brunson goes to the Knicks, becomes the guy. Well, he can't go there. Brooklyn sucks. Well, what am I going to go there for? And you kind of, it's like, you know what you got. You don't know what you don't have. And he's looking around this Cleveland team and it's like, man, this team's really good. Maybe I should stop thinking about what's next and just kind of lock it down here.

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Signs the extension. Now they become a legitimate contender. That team falls into place. That team's super selfless. And honestly, as weird as this sounds, I think it starts with the Brunson thing. And now we have a Knicks legitimate contender. We have Kyrie as a piece of a finals team last year. We have the Cavs as a legitimate contender and Brooklyn as the most fun summer team next summer.

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Zion's next. There you go. Who can save Zion? One other thing with Brunson and then you're up next with Positive. I'm just in disbelief how good Brunson is. And I think we take it for granted now in a way because he's just does it night after night with this herky jerky, these different spots of the court, his ability, even at the end of games to always get the shot he wants.

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The crunch time stats with him are out of control. Like John Schumann had in his power rankings thing yesterday that Brunson, he was on a crunch time streak where his usage rate was like 46%, which is like, you know, 98 finals Jordan, not, not as high as, as that. And over and over again, teams know what they're going to do. And he gets the shot he wants.

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I actually liked the signing for them when they got him. Because I really like Brunson. I also never in a million years thought he was going to be this good. I thought he could be the piece of a really good team. Maybe the best guard on a contender. not this. And you watch him night to night and all the other guys kind of make sense as awesome crunch time guys.

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Even somebody like Shay, it's very old school. He's just going to get, he's either going to get to the rim or he's going to get like his little 12 to 15 spot. I've seen that. I've seen there are guys in the seventies that did that.

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a lot of nitpicking, a lot of people forgetting what the league was like 10 years, 20 years, 30 years ago, and holding on to some ideal of something I'm not positive really existed. But what I want to do today is no negativity at all, all the positive storylines, all the things I'm excited about.

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They have great fans and they have a great building and the league's better when the Knicks are involved.

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It's an awesome, awesome, awesome matchup. And the fear for me is just the miles they've had to put on Al Horford already combined with Porzingis, who just can't seem to play two games in a row. You know, I think the Celts match up great with them.

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And in a way, that's probably the team the Knicks wouldn't, I would think definitely the team the Knicks wouldn't want to face because they just have these guards that they can throw at Brunson. They can counter Towns with their own stretch fives. And then they have these wings that are better than the Knicks wings. But we might not ever see that Celtics team this year.

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I mean, again, this is the all positive NBA pod, but you really need luck with health. And they had luck with Jalen and Tatum all decade. You know, they got luck with Porzingis for the most part. They were able to get to the playoffs and get just enough out of them to make it. They got luck with White and Horford. And we know with the NBA, like you can't count on that year to year.

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So give me another one. Give me an all positive.

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But before we get into it, do you think this is overboard with people complaining about the season this year? Because I actually feel like we hit that point about two weeks ago.

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I couldn't agree more. The gold medal game was a great sign by him. The Christmas Day Knicks game was a great sign by him. I had him down as well for the draft. I wrote down Wemby's slow burn into a potential monster crunch time guy. Wemby to me has turned into, when I'm home watching NBA, if he's in the fourth quarter and it's close, he's on a TV now. And that wasn't the case last year.

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Last year it was more of like, that team's a mess. It really makes me mad that I don't have a point guard. If he does something cool, I'll see it on social media. This year, it's kind of like, now that Chris Paul, which, you know, go figure, they needed a point guard. And he's almost my age, but still knows what to do, how to get the ball in the right spots. But his last 18, he's 29 and 10.

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Dang. 4.1 blocks a game. And the nitpick is 4.6 free throws a game versus 11 threes a game. And that's going to be the tilt that I'm watching for at the end of these games. Because what's so much fun to watch in these crunch times is where they get in the ball and then what he does. And he still has that like... sometimes he plays lower than his size.

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who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers.

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You know, he'll do like these turnarounds where he's, he's like falling down or he's, you know, I think once he eventually realizes just, I'm going to get eight feet from the basket, get me the ball. I'm taller than everyone. I'm just going to get a good shot, but it's really fun watching him figure it out.

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No, the last time I'm going back 40 years, but Samson, the first couple of years on the Rockets and Wemba Nyama, uh, Pretty similar offensively, except for the three-point shooting. But Samson had the same stuff. He was just figuring out what his body was. He had some really good stuff. He was always around the rim in big moments. And he was kind of nice around the foul line. And then he got hurt.

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We kind of never saw where it was going to go. With Wemby, the thing that I'm watching for as the season keeps going, they're a 500 team. We had them, I think, under 35 for the season. They're clearly going to be in the playoff mix because he's just too good. They also have some trades to make potentially. But what I want to watch from him is the last five, six, seven minutes of the game.

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Where are your shots coming from? Are you just going to settle for threes? Are you going to start figuring out I need to be six, seven feet from the basket and around the rim on rebounds and stuff like that? What have you been watching from him with the evolution of that over the last year?

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How is he not 21 yet? Him and my daughter's boyfriend turning 21 in the same week. That's just nuts to me.

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I love true patriot Kirk Goldsberry is one of my favorite Kirk Goldsberry's. Always keep an eye on the gold medal in FIBA.

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But a team that makes more sense than those first couple years of LeBron teams. I mean, he inherited such a bad roster those first couple years. They spent three years just trying to extricate themselves from these awful roster decisions. And I think that 06 season was kind of the first time. It was like, all right, this kind of looks like a team that LeBron should have. Wemby's further along.

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They have some possible trade stuff if they wanted. My big thing, if they made me the Wemby consultant, he needs to figure out where his like three spots on the floor, right? And I thought this was something when Duncan came into the league and he came in as a finished product almost because he had been in college for four years, but he had his spots, right? He was, he had right block, jump hook,

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He had that left, left a little bit further away, 10, 11 feet where he could shoot that bank shot or drive into the lane, hit the jumper. Like he knew where his spots were. Wemby spots are basically the three point line. And then he's showing signs of a possible Dirk foul line, something. but I don't know if he even knows what it is yet.

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Remember like how long it took Dirk to just figure out like top of the key. This is my domain now. I'm, I'm now grabbing this and taking it. And I don't, for me, the Wemby spot, I think would be the left block where he could either shoot a bank shot or a little 10 footer or go into the lane with a little running jump hook.

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And I don't know how you would defend it, but he hasn't figured that out yet.

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Yeah, and this happens with anything. This happens with bands. It happens with actors. It happens with writers where you just become convinced things were better five years ago, 10 years ago, and that's just the way it is.

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Bede took eight years to figure out where his spot was and it's free throw line.

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I like the foul line area for him too, because we saw it with Dirk. We saw it with Embiid. We've seen it with a couple others. Just because it's really hard to send a second guy you know, you can almost create enough space there where you can pass to either corner. You got like a guard over there. So maybe that'll be it. I'd love to see them find one more guy just for the record. All right.

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That would be the guy I would be at least having a meeting about when we get back after New Year's. Like, all right, hey guys, 1.30, we're going to have our one and a half hour at the Aaron Fox meeting. And we've had our best three scouts watch his last 20 games. And what would this look like with him?

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You got to talk that out and really figure it out because this is a top 20 guy that might become available in a month. you know my next one for the all positive NBA podcast and I couldn't be more delighted I've already talked about them on the pod in the past so we don't have to spend too much time on it but the Atlanta Hawks graduating

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From fantasy team that just made trades that Woody Johnson's kids would make for the Jets. And we're like, we'll just put DeJounte Murray and Trey Young together. By the way, a trade that I kind of liked when they did it. At the time, I thought DeJounte Murray still played defense, but came to find out he didn't. The way they crafted this team.

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The NBA is really good right now, and we're going to go through a whole bunch of things, but I just want to start here, and we're going to go, yeah, I asked you to come up with some things you want to hit as well. I have a bunch of them. The number one thing I want to hit, though, is just basketball is better played now than it ever was. And it's not close. It's not an argument.

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putting Trey with all these wings and all these interchangeable guys on defense who can help him in some ways, or, you know, the Daniels-Murray trade, which was the trade of the year and maybe the trade of the last couple years. The Risa Shea pick, who I just really like Risa Shea. I liked him in the preseason. I like him during the season. He's 19 years old. He's playing 24 minutes a game.

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I don't know if you saw their comeback against Indiana when they scored 50 in the fourth quarter. Risa Shea was a big part of that. They have two centers who basically can just rebound and finish lobs and that's it. And it's a team that was architected. I'm going to make up that word correctly. And I just want to appreciate the moment because so many, like, look at the Kings. You go the other way.

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We can talk about them in the all negative NBA pod, but the Kings doing all the fantasy basketball moves like DeMar DeRosa, maybe has stuff left in the tank and on and on and on. And now they're a mess. Atlanta, like just really smartly crafting a team that can exact the most out of Trae Young. Because they knew they didn't really have a chance to... Trae Young had no value anymore.

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They weren't going to be able... You're basically just selling them off for 40 cents on the dollar. All the moves they made were great. And the fact that Hunter turned out to be a guy, kind of belatedly, I just really like the team. They're 18 and 15 now. And I think they're a team that's not going to be a playing team. I think they're going to be one of the six playoff teams.

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He is a great... Did you see this with him?

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It just didn't seem like he could shoot. It always seemed like he had quick hands and he was something, but this is crazy to watch. I mean, you could argue just Murray for Daniels would have made sense, but yeah, he's, it was really interesting watching him guard LeBron a couple of weeks ago.

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The players are more skilled. They shoot better. The games are more high scoring. The scoring is better in the games. The defense is better. The skill is better. I would urge people to really watch closely some of these games. One of the things that's changed for me, just from a skill level that I constantly marvel at, especially I went to a Clippers Warriors game in person a couple of days ago,

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Yeah, that was the one guy where it was like, okay, well, maybe you might be the best defensive perimeter guy in the league, but if somebody's 6'9", 270, that might still be a problem for you. But it seems like everybody else, where he's really tough and what the Knicks should watch out for is if we get Knicks, Hawks in like a round one and Daniels on Brunson is bad for the Knicks.

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Like that's just flat out not good.

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There's some love for his wardrobe and his look, too. Every time they cut to him in the sidelines, I'm like, is this a bit? What's he doing?

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I couldn't agree more. Great Barrier Thief is, I don't know who came up with that, but kudos. Can I give you, what do you think Atlanta's over under is on FanDuel right now? They're 18 and 15. So we're- So wins, because they update the wins. What do you think they're, because I bet this twice and I might go back for thirds. What do you think it is right now? 43 and a half. 42 and a half.

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I'll take the over, I guess. To me, they're top six teams. So right now, it's Cleveland, Boston, Knicks, Zombie Magic at 2014, Atlanta's fifth, and Milwaukee's sixth because they've had the Damiana stuff. So they're only 16 and 14. And then underneath them is Miami, Indiana, Chicago, Detroit. Philly lurking now at 13 and 17 with a chance to get to 500 if... We'll see.

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They have a tough schedule in January. I'll be interested to see how many games a beat actually plays. But I think Atlanta is going to be a top 16.

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I just thought Philly played that game like it was a game seven and Boston played it like it was another game in the schedule. And it's going to happen. I didn't take that much away from it.

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I don't think they were ready for what was going to happen. Here's the Celtics stretch coming up that I'm going to be really interested in. Thursday at Minnesota, Friday at Houston, Sunday at Oklahoma City, Tuesday at Denver. And we're going to have a much better idea after those games. They'll play two awesome games, probably have one shitty game, and then one either or game would be my guess.

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But last year, they would have ripped through and won all four of those games. And that's the difference. Last year's team had a chip on its shoulder. They wanted to rip through the schedule. Every time they lost, it felt like an accident. This year, we'll see. Could they go on four on those? I wouldn't be surprised. Let's take a break, and then I have a couple more for you.

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This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome. And now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors. with the future of the empire.

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At stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2, now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If you want to take control of your finances, Apple Card is where it starts. A credit card that can give you up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. I have one, I can tell you this is true.

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The ability for people to just drive and then throw these one handed, perfectly placed passes to guys in the corner. Nobody was doing that 10 years ago. And now you have 70 like Tyler Hero is basically Joe Burrow on those. And, you know, you wouldn't think of him as a good passer. But I'm just so impressed over and over again with how skilled these dudes are.

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I know and love Apple Card. So many places I can use it, especially during a busy time here with football, basketball, the holidays. All at once, I can use my Apple Card on tickets to a game, a gift from my dad, or even tickets as a gift for my dad. Plus, anytime there's a new Apple product, It's a lot easier. Apply for an Apple Card today. It's easy. Just go to the Wallet app on your iPhone.

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Again, that easy. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. This episode is brought to you by Pepsid Complete. We all know that one of the best parts of game day is the food. On Sundays, Nephew Kyle comes over. Sometimes we'll get healthy. We'll get some salads. Sometimes we'll get a little ambitious.

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We'll get some sandwiches. It's always the best part of my food week. Well, until heartburn strikes, then it's not as great. You get heartburn from time to time. Gotta watch out. You don't wanna be rolling around in bed all night. Thankfully, Pepsin Complete starts to work instantly. It lasts all day.

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The all positive NBA podcast returns with Kurt Goldsberry's next one. What do you got?

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I have no notes. I do worry about them a little bit with how ESPN does basketball and whether they'll have enough time to actually do content before, during, and after games.

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I think the Turner people share some of that concern too. All right, my next one for the All Positive NBA pod. Brooklyn as an old school tanking trade machine team. They said it couldn't be done with the second apron era. They said the Picasso, the trade machine, wouldn't be able to paint during February. Well, guess what? Brooklyn's already made two trades.

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They have this giant Ben Simmons expiring. They have a determined thing to be bad. They have Cam Johnson. who I think there's going to be a little bit of a fun bidding war. And he actually has a tradable contract. Don't sleep on Nick Claxton. Maybe, you know, he's a contract in the low mid twenties as a rim protector kind of alley-oop guy. Like could Atlanta turn Capella into Nick Claxton?

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I don't even know if that makes them better, but there's stuff like that floating around with them. But then big picture, uh, if they do this correctly, I mean, let's say, I think they're definitely trading Cam Johnson. He's 28 years old. They should, they definitely want to get worse. If they also traded Claxton,

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And I don't think people see it or the people that do see it, maybe we're not loud enough, but am I crazy thinking these guys are just better than they used to be?

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They'd be like $120 million under the cap heading into the summer, which now gives everybody leverage. Like somebody like Jimmy Butler or Miami is like, where are you going to go? And he's like, well, I actually do have a place to go. It's right there. It's Brooklyn. They become leverage for Zion.

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Basically, they become the island of misfit toys for every player and team that we don't know what they're going to do this summer. I really appreciate that they exist because if they didn't, I don't know what we would do for fake trades.

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Well, you mentioned this on the Ringer NBA show yesterday. There's also a really fun scenario where Cam Thomas is the only guy left just shooting 40 shots a game. And it's like just the perfect, can Cam Johnson average, could he basically do Kobe 2006 for the last two months of the season? Cam Thomas has 81 points.

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10 years ago. I got a text yesterday and a friend of mine was like, hey, you have Jokic on a TV, right? He has a chance to get a 40-20-10. I'm like, I'll put him on now. I wasn't going to watch Denver-Utah. There were better games, but fine.

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Oh, like the 22 man in football where they just have a wide shot just focused on him doing stuff? Yeah.

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So, second in points, third rebounds, third assists, first in three-point shooting. It's fucking crazy. It'll never happen again.

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But you made the guy chubby. Yeah. I have some quick ones. The Pistons are not the Pistons anymore. The Pistons were so sad for so long and now they're a fun watch. I would rank them as my stealth most fun Eastern Conference watch behind the Hawks. Cade, I think is one of the 16 or 17 has to be on the all-star team guys for what he's doing night to night.

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And they also have an interesting trade bait piece that I'm not sure they even think about doing this year. Maybe they do, but they have Harrison Hardaway at 41 million combined. They have all kinds of flexibility in all kinds of directions. And I'm just watching them because they're right around 500. The East is a little bit weird after that six spot. Cade is a guy.

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Ivy is compared to when Monte Williams was playing Killian Hayes over him. That's what a dramatic come around that's been. I like what they've done with Beasley and Harris and Hardaway. Just the same thing you talked about with San Antonio. We're just like veterans who've been in the league for a while who kind of know how to show up and just be professional.

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But there's also like, hey, could this be like a Jimmy Butler out of nowhere team? Could this be like, just fuck it. Let's add Zach Levine to this. Like, could this be a, I don't know who, like go through the week, go find guys that might be able to, could this be a Cam Johnson team?

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Well, it's basically Rashid. Rashid was the guy everyone pointed to and said, Oh my God, this guy, he can shoot from outside. He can post up. And we, we held them up to this crazy level. And he was like 16 points a game.

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I feel like there's a trade for them and I think they should do it because Cade's really, really, really good and way better than I thought he was going to be. I think he's an absolute guy. I would love to see them get one more guy.

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Right. Orlando two years ago. Like, yeah, you see, there's, you can see the breadcrumbs to something really good happening with them. And I think they've at least reached that point. OKC a couple of years ago.

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Goldsberry, they just did this trip. They did a three-game trip at Phoenix, at Lakers, at Kings. Won all of them. Yeah. And it had a dramatic, uh, come from behind win against the Kings too. So that's one. I wanted to mention the Pistons and, uh, and I wanted to mention the zombie magic really quick. They're 20 and 14. Paolo's played five games. He's really played four and a half games.

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Cause he got hurt. Franz has played 25 games, really 24 and a half. Cause he got hurt. Um, They're shooting 30.8% from three. They are running crunch time plays for Tristan Da Silva and Jalen Suggs. They lost Mo Wagner, who you'd be like, oh, they lost Mo Wagner. Like, Mo Wagner was important for them? And they're 20 and 14, and they're just hanging around. And they're a really hard team to play.

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Like, they beat the Celtics last week, and I'm watching it going, I don't understand why. how we're going to lose this game. But it made sense when you were watching it because Orlando was just ready for the challenge, playing super hard.

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Mosley, to me, I wasn't sure about Mosley, but what he's getting out of that team, Atkinson's the coach of the year favorite, but I think Mosley, this team finishes with like 46, 47 wins, not having Palo, not having Franz. That's fucking insane. So he's got to be in there.

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Yeah. The worst case there are eight seed. If you're the one seed, you're like, really? I got these guys now they're healthy because I assume Paolo and Franz will be back. So I wanted to mention them. What do you have? Because I have two more.

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I would throw in Chris Paul too. I had actually for the all positive playing off that, the fact that the Lakers aren't a disaster, I'm going to remove my abject hatred for the Lakers and the Yankees, the two teams I hate the most. it's also not good when the Lakers are bad. It's the same thing. Like we talked about the Knicks, like the league's just more fun when the Lakers are competent or good.

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Even I would admit that. And I can't stand them. There was a moment when this seemed like the season was going to get really dark. And that this LeBron season was going to get dark. The season was going to get dark. The JJ thing was going to get dark. The defense was absolutely abominable. They kind of rallied around it and passed it. LeBron going away for eight days.

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I think the schedule really helped. They really lucked out right as things were creating and all of a sudden we had that NBA Cup thing. They've had some good schedule luck. They got to play Sacramento three times right as Sacramento was completely falling apart. but I feel like they've kind of saved this a little bit, you know, like the fact that Max Christie's a competent rotation guy.

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Now he wasn't a month ago. The fact that they were able to get Finney Smith for what basically giving up nothing. Um, they're not going to be bad, I guess is my point. And I think if you're talking about like, I don't want to watch LeBron on an awful team. Like this guy carried the league this century, you know? And, um, at least they're relevant, I guess is my point.

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I think them just sucking and not having their pick, it's just like a dark story. And at least that's not going to happen. And now I think I'm going to pour gasoline on myself and set myself on fire that I just praised. It's fine.

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I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.

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Well, it's also good because they're on fucking national TV all the time because those are the teams they put on. So we might as well have them be good over terrible.

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I think people want to see them in the playoffs. Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing them in the playoffs. I'm just, the question for me is, did I want to see them at all during the season? And now at least we can say, all right, this is kind of a fun team. Come on. In the playoffs, I want to see them. They're not making like round three in the playoffs. Come on.

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I don't even think it's close. And I also think it's probably the best top 50 we've ever had by far. Like I was looking at 2025 versus 2005. So in 2025, we're averaging 113 points a game. In 2005, we averaged 97.2. 16 points less. We're shooting better now. We're 46.4% field goal. We were 44.7 in 2005. Three-point shooting slightly better, 35.9. It was 35.6. Assists were five higher a game.

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LeBron's too old. I don't see him being able to... Once we get into the part of the schedule where you have to play like every other... I just don't see it. I don't see how he would have the energy. We saw in the beginning when they were playing in big minutes, he lasted a month. He had to take an eight-day sabbatical. Davis is the one... maybe he could throw the team on his back.

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I finished Smith. I've always liked, I thought his quotes were really interesting after the trade. Like he's a really smart player. It's the kind of guy that's worked well with LeBron where he was talking about how they used him and in Brooklyn. And it was a lot of like top of the key threes and a lot of him with the ball. And he's like, I'm actually better off if I'm in the corner.

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That was when I was at my best with Luca. Now I get to go back to that. I was like, all right, this guy, this would be a good one for them. Um, I have another one for you. This is mostly positive. There's a negative component to it, but I don't want to focus on that. Zion Trades. This has been a big topic on text and talking to different people who know things and people involved with teams.

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What is Zion as a trade asset? What's he worth? Would you do it? Is this salvageable? ESPN wrote a piece about it this week about how goofy his deal is. Basically, it's not guaranteed for the last three years, but you can keep picking it up. So it's almost like an NFL contract with no real salary cap ramifications. Somebody's going to talk themselves into it.

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If you're New Orleans, you probably have to cut bait at some point. And I think it's going to be a really fun story over the next six weeks, which is why I put it in the all positive NBA storyline, because I still think Zion's incredibly talented. I think he plays for the single worst franchise you could play for in the NBA at this point. I want to see him go to a place

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that will treat him like a plant and water him every day and put him in the sun and put little chemicals and try to help him grow versus where he is now, which is the worst situation you can be in. Would you trade for Zion?

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And yet, that's not what can happen. He can't go to the Kings. He can't go to Portland. This goes back to my plan analogy. I get your point. Those franchises are like, hey, this could be an incredible roll of the dice. To me, he has to go to an awesome organization that will really put some thought and love and care into this. Um, and to me, it's Miami or San Antonio.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If I'm Miami, this is the guy I'm really thinking about. And especially if I, if this Butler thing keeps going sideways and could it be a three way or whatever, um, Could we get Zion? Could we save this? Could we salvage this? Could we turn him into an awesome asset? And is there a world two years from now where we have Bam and Zion and Tyler Hero and that's like our version of a big three?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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They're shooting 21.5 more threes a game. But Everyone points to that. And really, we change long twos and bad post-ups for threes. And I'm fine with the trade. I would rather watch somebody shoot a three. I think when people, including me, have complained about the NBA, and again, we're trying to go all positive, There's a sameness to what they're watching.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Because Hero's been fantastic this year. He's just a really, really elite offensive player now. You're not getting anywhere. If Michael Pena wrote about this today for...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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for the ringer if Bam and Hero are your two guys you're not doing anything you still need that awesome somebody so Zion and then San Antonio is one of those like if San Antonio traded for Zion guess what the reaction in the league would be oh shit right that would be it it's like oh no Wemby and Zion oh no And I think those are the two teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Maybe there's some others, but those are the two I was focused on. He sent him to Chicago. He sent him to Detroit. I don't know how it's different.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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But the contract isn't nearly as risky as what makes this so fascinating. It's a risk, but it's also not a risk. It depends what you give up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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There's weight stuff and there's game stuff where over and over again, you can get out of it. So, you know, we'll see what happens. But I just keep thinking of the teams that if they traded for him, what the reaction would be. Right. And Miami and San Antonio are the two where people are like, oh, fuck. Oh man, they're going to figure this out with them. We've just seen it in the NBA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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And I don't know what else to do with that New Orleans team because Ingram clearly has no trade value. As an expiring free agent, they would have traded him already. They're in a weird spot with CJ and DeJounte who they just traded for. They have all these picks. I just, I don't know what to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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And guess what? Nobody wants to go there. But now we're not being positive anymore. Do you have one more? Because I have two more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

4646.493

It's like scrimmaging in a hotel conference conference. What are those rooms called?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

4656.218

Yeah. Well, playing off what you just said in the all positive NBA draft, I kind of love how weird the 2024 draft is and how many guys I kind of like. Reese O'Shea, mentioned him already. Steph Castle, all in. You get a little bit of a rookie wild where you're saying, but I'm all in. Messi on the Pelicans. He's a real center.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I think he's like 15 years old, but he's definitely a real center who will get a big contract. Jared McCain. This Jalen Wells kid on Memphis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Zach Eady on Memphis, who's averaging like 11 and eight. And you feel his presence in some of these games. And there's matchups against certain teams where it's kind of, I really liked him in the draft because I just felt like there's going to be games and nights where he just sucks to play against, you know, it's like, we don't have a guy. Porzingis is out tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Now we have Lou Carnette, you know, trying to stop Zach Eady, uh, Dalton connect, uh, I like Donovan Klingon. Tristan Da Silva was a pretty polarizing prospect, but I think he's been a borderline revelation on the magic. Bob Carrington, who a lot of people liked. I don't think Saar, I'm not willing to say he's a bust. I think there's something there. I really like Bud Zealous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I don't know how much you've watched him on Chicago, but I almost feel like they have to trade Zach Levine just to get him to play. I like the way that guy, I like how he runs the floor. I like how athletic he is. I like him. And I think he's a little feisty. He's got a little chip on his shoulder. And then Ron Holland and Dillingham and Jacoby Walter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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And what it really is, it's not the threes. To me, it's the pick for the guy 30 feet from the basket at the top. It's the over and over again of two guys in the corner and one or two picks coming up for somebody like Tatum, whoever it is, Jaylen Bartzak, it could be anybody. And just seeing that over and over again, the sameness of it, I think that's what people are thinking of.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

4757.861

There's something there with all three of those guys. So that's a lot of guys that I think all have a chance to be a starter in the NBA, which is basically what we're looking for in the draft. There's no high ceiling superstar, Wemby type version, but it's a fun draft. Do you like this draft or am I overreacting?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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We just haven't seen him. We haven't really seen him yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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And they're trying to play defense and there are two seeds and they don't have time for a project. Hey, can you be Mark Price someday? They don't want to, they don't care. They want to win games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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For what they are and what they're trying to be, probably makes the most sense. I still really like Castle. I liked him the most heading into the draft. I just think he has it. There's that guy has all the, he checks all the boxes of what I want and the shooting, I think we'll get there eventually. But for them, I think you're right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I think for, if you're just trying to have these interchangeable, tall athletic dudes, he makes more sense for them. So check out Bud's Ellis though. I'm, I'm, I'm in on him. They might've actually stumbled into, uh, one of them. All right. Here's, here's another one I had for you. And this is coming up. I took my daughter to the Clipper game the other night. I got to give them credit, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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That is the best NBA arena, hands down. Best atmosphere. Everything... Everything Ballmer did where there's no TVs in the lobbies, there's no TVs in the clubs, there's no TVs when you're going to buy a hot dog, everything is built around get back into your seats. He wants people in there. He's got that whole section behind the court that really does, they start chants, they do all kinds of things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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There's more energy at those games. than Laker games. They really have flipped this where the Lakers now look like they're the rinky-dink franchise with the Staples Center, which is just old now and doesn't have the same vibe as this Clippers thing. This is the first time the Clippers have ever turned the tables on the Lakers and made them feel like they're just kind of more modern and more on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's not the fact that we're shooting more threes because they're making more threes and we have more skilled players. I don't know how you fix the sameness and I'm not sure I care. Where do you stand on that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

4963.377

The Lakers still have bigger stars. But I'll tell you this, that letting Paul George go over the third, fourth year thing, they did offer him three years. So I don't want to praise them too much, but not going for trying to patch it together with, with defense role guys, flexibility, and then banking on Harden and Powell being able to carry all the offense. It works. Dan Gundy on the defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

4991.553

It works. They're really well coached. Smart team that's taken advantage of this crazy, you mentioned it earlier with aging superstars. Harden, this is the best he's looked in a while. I don't think he had, never has the ball too much. I think he's found the right balance of, he takes over when they need him, but he doesn't have it all the time. And I think they're really hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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They win these games at the end of games. Like you watch like the last five minutes, like I feel like they're going to get stops. What they're getting from zoo bots, who I just want to mention was traded for Mike Mascala by magic Johnson and the Lakers. One of the worst trades the last 10 years. Um, but they have an actual home court advantage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I think they're a playoff team and I was completely wrong on them. I thought they're going to suck. They're good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

5064.836

Yeah, because here are the minutes he's taking. He would be taking... Coffee's playing almost 25 minutes a game. Porter was playing 20 minutes a game. Derek Jones said they're going to need even when Kawhi comes back. And then Batum was playing 18 minutes a game. So they have minutes where it's just, he's an immediate upgrade of this kind of patchwork, you know, wings that they have. I'm with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I'll tell you this. Body language doctor was really studying them. Happiest I've seen Kawhi on the bench in a couple of years. A lot of Kawhi Harden stuff during the timeouts. Kawhi, at one point in the fourth quarter, Harden wasn't playing and they were talking during a timeout. And Kawhi was doing the exaggerated overlap thing with Harden. It seems like they actually like each other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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The vibes are great. Everyone seems like they love Van Gundy. And in general, I don't think they're going to go away, was my takeaway from what I've watched, but also seeing them in person. It was interesting, Golden State, finally did the one thing I don't think teams realize that they should do. Nobody on the Clippers can dribble. I don't know if you've noticed this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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They can dribble in the half court, like Harden obviously can dribble, but nobody wants to dribble the first 50 feet of the court. So it'll be like Chris Dunn, it'll be Harden who doesn't want to work at all. Norman Powell, they really don't have anybody. And I was with my daughter and we're watching. I'm like, I don't understand why they won't press.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I don't understand why people don't press the Clippers. I'm saying that my daughter who barely knows anything about basketball. And then the Warriors started pressing in the fourth quarter and they started getting all these turnovers. And she's like, dad, how'd you know? And I was like, because nobody on the Clippers can dribble. But that's their one weakness is they don't have like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I think pressure is an issue for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Yes, I do. I really do. Even that game, there were Warriors fans at that game Saturday night, but the Clipper fans were loud. And I think they liked the team. The Harden thing, I just can't believe because he was my least favorite player to see in person. And actually kind of enjoyed the two games I've been to. I've actually enjoyed them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I was saying to the guy, Mike Tolan, I shared tickets with, I was like, I'm actually going to go to a bunch of Clipper games. Like I like going, I had a good time. Uh, the vibe's good. It's just the thumbs up. So bomber, like, I don't know how much, what, what did he spend? Like however many billion dollars, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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It was fucking worth it because he's not like the black sheep brother of the Staples Center anymore. You know, he actually has good NBA dates and there's a real vibe in the arena. So thumbs up. Great job, Clippers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

5238.04

That's great for the all positive NBA podcast. A Kawhi comeback to what already exists. If he can be healthy. It's just a really fun story. Kawhi, if you throw away the playoffs last year, but before he got hurt beginning of last year, he looked like one of the 15 best guys in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I think Harden, the word in the street is he's, he's matured with some of his off the court stuff is, is the word in the street. Who knows? Uh, Last thing just quickly is the all-star arguments are going to be great for the all-positive pod. We have just the guards of the West, SGA, Harden, Anthony Edwards, Kyrie, Curry, Booker, Fox, and Ja. I'm positive all those guys can't make the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Centers, Jokic, Wemby, Sabonis, Davis, Shangoon, and Jaron Jackson. on a really good Memphis team, Houston might not have an all-star. They're a two seed. Um, and then you go with the, uh, with the East, if Brunson and Mitchell and Kate, I'll make it. We still have to figure out Maxie Dame, Trey hero and Garland. We have to figure out how many calves all-stars there are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

5342.167

Um, I just think there's a lot of good players. And when everybody starts doing their all-star pods in two weeks, people like, holy shit, a lot of good players, uh, and then we'll complain about the All-Star game. But we're not going to do that. We're all positive about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Well, SGA Harden has to make it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Ant has to make it. I think Kyrie has to make it. And I think Curry has to make it. So that's five guards. And we haven't talked about Booker Fox or Jaya Jaya. You can maybe dig on some of the missed games, but, uh, but that's crazy that we're Booker and Fox aren't going to be in the all-star game. I think that's where we're heading. So the league is loaded.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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That's it for the all positive NBA podcast. Unless you had any, uh, last, last things. That was good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Listen, I'm feeling positive about that. I'm feeling positive about everything in general as we head to the end of 2025. What a positive ending. This is great. We didn't even talk about the Kings. I had a whole, I was going to make fun of the Kings. I'm not going to do it because this is the all positive NBA podcast. Thanks, Kyle Creighton. for producing. I think Cerruti's on this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I think Gahal's on this as well. Next time you see me, it'll be 2025 on the Thursday podcast. Enjoy New Year's. Have a great New Year's Eve. Kurt Goldsberry, good luck with Texas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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This episode is brought to you by Hookah. I've got to talk to you guys about the Bondi 9, the new daily trainer from Hookah. The Bondi 9 delivers peak plushness for everyday miles overhauled from top to bottom. They've increased the stack height and added a new premium foam midsole to deliver that soft, resilient ride that's become synonymous with the Bondi. And look, I walk a lot.

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I walk all around LA. You need good shoes for that. These are perfect. Everybody, Bondi. Visit hookah.com, H-O-K-A.com to learn more about the Bondi 9.

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Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Well, and the other thing, and one of the things that I think has been so great about this season, we have so many good guards, you know, and I look back to like that first half of the 2000s when everyone was complaining and I was doing my bit about how I was one of the last 20 NBA fans. Even the guys that were the best guys, they were all like doing Jordan imitations to some degree.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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There were these guards that had the ball for a shitload. And even you look at the, uh, the All-NBA and the All-Stars from that. It was like that was the Gilbert Arenas era. That was T-Mac with the ball all the time. That was Kobe with the ball all the time. That was why we latched on to Steve Nash and the Sun so much because the style they were playing was different.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

602.805

Wade had the ball all the time. LeBron had the ball all the time. But it wasn't the same kind of smart offense we have now because the spacing wasn't the same. You had these guys that had the ball all the time, but they're also playing with centers clogging the lane. And, you know, we had power forwards back then. They kind of didn't know where to put them because they couldn't space.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

619.919

You had like the Vin Baker, Antoine Walker, like these guys that were just, I guess Antoine could shoot some threes. So Maurice Stoudemire, people trying to figure out how to use these these big guys and now those big guys can pop out and they can do pop and picks. And I just think the product's better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

637.031

I don't, I don't think there's go back and watch, go on YouTube and watch just a random 2005 regular season game. We were all like, what are we going to do about this league? This is bad. How do we fix this? And I think they fixed a lot of it. And to me, it's a positive, not a negative.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Yeah, I don't either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Well, I have, this is another thing I have which ties into this. The watchable basketball across the board, I think people really take for granted now. And I would urge people to go back and look at the bottom rung of teams in 2015. That was when we had Philly in the process. Or in 2005, you just had these broken teams that were stuck with these terrible salary cap roster decisions, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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You had the Marbury Knicks. You had the Celtics stuck with... Paul Pierce and Ricky Davis and Vin Baker's terrible contract, which turned into Rafe LaFrance's terrible contract. You go around the league, even like LeBron was stuck on a terrible Cavs team for three years. You go around the league, there was 10 to 15 unwatchable teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I look at the bad teams now and the bad teams, Portland, Charlotte, Washington, New Orleans, Toronto, Utah. I can watch all of those teams. Yeah. I like watching Utah. New Orleans is the most fascinating five and 28 team I think we've ever had in the history of the league. Like, I watched them last night play right down to the wire against the Clippers. Charlotte's got LaMelo and Brandon Miller.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Portland, where our Justin Barrier is located now, like, Portland's fun to watch. They've got a lot of weird pieces. They have guys who can spring for 35 at any night compared to where we were 10 years ago. It's no contest. The league is so much deeper and more entertaining. Do you see that too? Is there anybody I'm missing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

847.3

I remember the first year I did Countdown. There weren't five playoff teams you wanted to see. I remember it was either 2013 or 14. There was just some Bulls net series that felt like it was going on for five weeks. That was in 2013. We had Memphis make the conference finals with that Zeebo Gasol. Nobody could make a three. They had no spacing at all. There was some good stuff too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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The 2014 Spurs were just a revelation and really great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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And I think when people think about basketball before we moved into this three crazy era, the 2014 Spurs and especially what they did to Miami, that's kind of the ideal for the old way of basketball that tied to the 1970 Knicks and the 74 Celtics and the Russell Celtics, ball movement, everything built around a big guy, guards who could attack

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Those days are over because everybody can shoot threes down and we're just not going to have a team like the 2014 Spurs again. But I would urge people to go back. Even Miami, who had LeBron during this incredible MVP heat check run and Wade and Bosh, they're pretty tough to watch in 2014, right? They could barely put together seven guys. Now all the best teams have seven or 11 guys, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables last night. We did Friday Night Lights. It is basically the 20th anniversary of that movie. Came out 20 years ago. Meet Mallory Rubin, one of the best football movies of all time.

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Pritchard's the seventh guy in the Celtics and can score 25 any night. So I just think it's no contest right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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Did you have the Cavs on your list?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The All-Positive NBA Show With Kirk Goldsberry

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I just, they killed golden state last night. The cats are 27 and four. They're like, when we're talking about the, in the all positive NBA podcast, um, The Cavs are just great to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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Coming up, I'm going to bat around a 2025 NBA trade value list with Ryan Rosillo. It's fun. It's next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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Like Denver is not trading for him. Even if Miami was like, all right, fine. We'll take Porter and we'll take Zeke Nagy for four years. You can have Butler. I don't know if that changes Denver's ceiling. They already have enough outside shooting problems. If they were playing worse, I might think about it, but I actually really like the way they're playing, even though they lost last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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We'll see what happens. You're totally ruling out Phoenix. I don't think anyone wants Beal. And even if they wanted Beal, I don't know if he would agree to go to the trade. But I watched the game last night. I just don't think Beal's good. He's fine. He's a rotation guy. But for $50 million a year, that's the worst contract in the league. And he doesn't play every time.

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The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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I think there's a reason Phoenix has... tried to move away from that big three model with him. And I think there's a reason everybody is like, yeah, no thanks. Cool. Oh, I get Bradley Beal this year and the next two. No thanks. Like everyone throws Chicago and, you know, could he go to Milwaukee? Why would Milwaukee want Bradley Beal?

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The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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They're going to have him and Dame at the same time trying to play defense. That's crazy. I just can't find a team for him either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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That trade was horrible. That was the all time we took a $2 bill and turned it into three quarters and a dime because it gives us more flexibility. That's a team that they're at the blackjack table losing hand after hand going, give me more. I'm going to double down. Oh, you're kidding.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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You're talking about the trade?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

1119.077

The actual Phoenix trade. You're acting like Phoenix is a rational team that puts thought into the shit they do. That trade was idiotic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

1146.667

Yeah, but at that point, you're Tim Daly's character in The Sopranos, the screenwriter who's on the 48-hour gambling binge just getting killed. And he's like, just give me 25 grand more. I'm going to win this back. That's Phoenix and Ishbir right now. Just give me, let's split the picks up. We'll have some flexibility. We'll try to win this back. It's like, this ship has sailed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

1165.049

You're not, you're not doing anything and you're not getting Jimmy Butler for what you have. And if, if anyone takes Bradley Beal and allows you to get Jimmy Butler, I can't imagine a team in the league that's dumb enough. Maybe I'll be wrong. Maybe they'll cut this clip out and be like, like, I don't see why anybody would want Bradley Beal. 50 million this year, 50 million the next two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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In the second apron era. Who wants that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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I'm trying to figure out my annual trade value list that we're going to run on ringer.com. So I brought in Rosillo as my conciliary. As we're taping, Sham Sharania breaks the news that Sacramento is now ready to explore De'Aaron Fox trades, which of course we did not talk about, even though this trade value podcast is almost two hours long.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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You think this bugs me? I just called my accountant. I just can't believe how much money I'm going to make the rest of the year. I'm fine. Let's take a break. We got to talk trade value. The FanDuel Kick of Destiny is back, and this time, it's every Manning for himself. This Super Bowl, two legends take the field in a sudden death field goal showdown. Peyton versus Eli, live from New Orleans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

1252.433

One kick, two claim. Ultimate family bragging rights. Who will rise to the moment? Pick your winner. Now in the FanDuel app. And if you back the right brother, you'll earn a share of $10 million in bonus bets. The FanDuel Kick of Destiny 3. Make your free pick. Don't forget to tune in to watch the showdown live during the Super Bowl 59 pregame show on Fox at 3 p.m. Eastern.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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Visit usbank.com slash smartlycard To learn more, the creditor and issue of this card is U.S. Bank National Association. Pursuant to a license from Visa USA, Inc., some restrictions may apply. All right, so the trade value rules really quickly. This is not a top 100 list. This has to do with age of the players, salaries mattering, contract length, happiness, and degrees, right?

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So if you're talking about one player that's 35 versus an up-and-coming star that's 23, that's crazy. Alman Thompson's a good example. Yeah, Almond Thompson for Kevin Durant, if it was just this year, maybe you'd want Kevin Durant for the playoff run. But big picture as an asset for your team, for age, rookie contract, the whole thing, you'd want Almond Thompson.

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You'd want to be in the business of him for the next 15 years. So that's a good way to think about it.

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Well, here's the thing. So I've been working on this list for two weeks. And there was a version of it a couple of days ago where I had him 20 and I emailed it to a friend of mine and I was like, does anything jump out? And he's like, Jesus, you have Thompson that high. And I'm like, I actually do.

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I'll let you guess where Fox was in the rankings, but let's just say he was in the top 25. For trades, Miami, Maybe I think Butler has to be in it and a bunch of picks and, um, God only knows what else, or maybe, maybe it's built around Tyler here on picks, but Miami jumped out to me as a possibility. Brooklyn, if they want to trade some of their, uh, some of their big stuff.

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Like, I don't know if you've watched the last four weeks, but what's happening here is, is really, really, really crazy. The athleticism, the defense, the rebounding, the fact that he's starting to figure out how to create his own shot, how to beat guys off the dribble. He didn't win the game in Boston last night. Like what happened in Boston last night? Wasn't like, Oh my God, what a great game.

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Like he's been moving this way for five weeks and he's the best ass on, on that team. And it's not close. I think he's an automatic hangup. If you call Houston now, they don't need, they're like, what? No, we're not trading him. They hang up.

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You called him a 1% athlete. I think he's like a 0.1% athlete. I think you're, you're the best to ever do it. I don't know. I don't like, I just think athletically, He's on some rare plane that only a few guys I've seen have been at.

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Like when we're talking about young Kawhi, young Pippen, Westbrook, Derek Rose, those early years, MJ, obviously there's a, it's like a very small list and he's on it. And you saw some of the stuff he was doing on both ends last night. Like even Tatum going by him and getting, you know, layups or shots you want. Thompson's always almost there. Like he almost blocks it.

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Like he, you really have to work to get by him. I just love watching him play. And I think the thing that is probably so hard to figure out when he, where was he? Overtime elite. Yeah. How do you figure out the competitiveness piece for a kid who's like 17 playing in some goofy league? Right. The thing that's great about him is how like relentlessly competitive he is.

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Like I just I'm such a huge fan. And for whatever reason, Jabari got hurt. They went a little smaller with him. It unlocked something. And now if I were them, I wouldn't trade for anybody. You know, they're a two seed. They've had some big wins this week. I wouldn't mess with this. Just let's see how far we can go. Let's keep pushing Thompson a little bit.

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Let's nudge and see really what's there short-term, long-term. And next year we'll figure it out or this summer. Right? I think that's the move. Because the wins they had this week, you really have to start thinking... eh, but what if they did, what if they did this? Could they like make the finals? We've seen teams like out of nowhere and we've argued about this in the past.

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If you have a chance to make the finals, how far do you go? In this case, I'd probably wait because I think all their flexibility comes this summer once they can trade those Shangoon and Jay McGreen deals. And so you want to know heading into the summer what to do.

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And, um, the only thing that doesn't make sense with them is they're trying to tank this year, but it just seems like the kind of foundational guy for them. San Antonio definitely has the pieces to try to get him, uh, throw some picks in, they can make the contracts work and then try to pair him with Wemby.

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I think he's a once a week guy.

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And yet they did it yesterday. Four seconds left. They ran the play for him and they were like, just beat Jalen Brown off the dribble. and just do some crazy athlete thing. And even as he's like what you said earlier, it's almost like the baby deer on ice thing. Sometimes with him in offense where it's like, he's moving so fast, he can't even control it, but he still got the shot off.

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Jay broke Jalen's ankles. Um, It's the most fascinating development of the year for me. When we're talking about, I'm not surprised Wemby ascended the way he did. I'm not surprised SGA is having the year he is. Neither of us are surprised by anything with the Cavs. This is Thompson becoming like a top 20 trade asset. I did not have that on my bingo card.

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But when you're shooting 50-40-90 or 50-40-80 for three months, I'm not going to go, I won't do all like the honorable mentions, second apron casualties, can't believe they missed the top 80, toughest omissions. But I did send you the list. And the toughest omissions for me, I'll just rip through them quickly.

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Reed Shepard, Jaden McDaniels, Anthony Black, Klingin, Matherin, Dillingham, Beef Stew, who I love at four years 60, but couldn't put him on. Terry Eason, Sohan, Thompson's brother, Peyton Pritchard, Mark Williams, and Nembhard. Is there anybody that jumped out on that list? You're like, oh man, they should have made the trade value.

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And then Houston, which we talk about in this podcast you're about to hear, which I think Houston's going to be afraid to do a major move, but they certainly have the pieces if they want to go get Fox, which I've been talking about for six weeks. If they wanted to turn Van Vliet and a bunch of their picks and maybe, you know, Cam Whitmore to make the contracts work.

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And I like how competitive he is. He's a real alpha. There's no way he hasn't had conversations with buddies where one of his buddies is like, yo, this should be your team, not Halliburton's. He's like, I know. Just waiting. Just waiting for it to become my team.

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Yeah, because I like his contract, and he puts up numbers and stats, and he plays hard. But it's a good argument. All right, I'll bold Matherin.

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This year is a top 85. It's unusual. There were years in the mid 2000s when it was a top 40 and I was barely getting to 40, like barely, like squeezing shoehorning names in to try to get to 40. This year, I really probably could have done a top 100. The league is so deep. You don't really realize it until you're making a list like this. So the top 85, the

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The highest group is group O, quality assets, and just going from 85 to 75. Nikola Vucevic, who on the right night could have 40 points. DeJounte Murray, Kaminga, Jalen Wells, Herb Jones, Jared McCain, Walker Kessler, Kobe White, Jabari Smith, DeAndre Hunter has a good contract, and Cam Johnson, number 75. So that's the first group.

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And your question, Easton was a tough one for me too because I really like him and I didn't know if I was overrating him or not.

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I don't think it's... 60-40. Thanks for doing splits with me.

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So in this quality assets list, the hardest one for me, whether to include him or not, was DeJounte Murray. who's got a fatter contract and whose teams never seem to do well.

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And I don't know whether it's his fault or not, but at some point, if you're going to hit your 30s and this just keeps happening where every team you're on is either disappointing or underachieving and you're one of the main guys, I have to look at you. But that's one. And then Kaminga was the other one just because he's a free agent next year.

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And, uh, and just try to go all in and get him and add him to the team. It would be risky because they're playing really well right now. But those were the ones that jumped out. Other than that, um, I don't really see a fit, but I guess, I guess we'll see. So Darren Fox on trade block, you were about to listen to the trade value breakdown for 2025.

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And I think that complicates the asset piece because if you trade for him, you also have to pay him. I put Jalen Wells in there because he's playing big minutes for this Memphis team and he's guarding the best guy in the other team every game. And at some point that's, that's got to matter. Like they're winning with him. He always has the toughest defensive assignment.

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And I think for, for a team relying on two rookies like that with 82, like it's been, it's really unusual to see a team that's good. relying on guys who it's their first year in the league and in like significant roles, like Haiti come in and we're going to run offense through you and protect the rim. Like it's unusual. Anyway, I really, I really like, well, so I want to put them on there.

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All right. Next group. This group is called before the second apron shit. I absolutely would have hung up, but what are you thinking? So this is six guys, number 74, Porzingis, Aaron Gordon, Damian Lillard, Zach Levine, Drew Holiday, and Pascal Siakam. All the big contracts that you would have felt better about two, three years ago. Is Dame too high, too low, or just right for you?

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So his contract, this is year one. He had an extension. So it's basically five years and 150. So it's pricey. It's not crazy.

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So I think that makes his value higher just because you know, it's, it's just too, Jokic is at such a crucial point of his career and he's such an important player, not just for this generation, but just historically, like I just know Aaron Gordon's good with him. So I'm not trading him, you know, it would really have to take something for me to give up, give him up.

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This is where we're going to sort out the finalist. Rosillo is here. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this late Tuesday morning Pacific time. Ryan Rosillo is here. It's been a while for us. Once we get through football season, we're going to be doing Sunday nights again, talking hoops and a whole bunch of other stuff.

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You know, if, although he's been really good the last couple of weeks and I think we're all a little happier with what we're seeing, but I would be more worried about that because you can't miss on the $50 million contract. You can overpay a little bit on the guys making 30.

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Levine should be behind Gordon. Okay. Do you like Levine? I do. I'm stunned. It's another shocking thing that's happened this season. Because I've watched him multiple times be the best guy on the court in games against really good teams. And it wasn't like once. We're talking seven, eight, nine times.

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Where it's just, he's really hard to defend and he's playing, I think as well offensively as he's ever played. And I, I just, I value the offense. He's a 25 points a game guy that can go toe to toe with whoever at the end of a game, you know, it's not nothing like I would rather have him than Dame at this point. Cause I can find, I can find point guards.

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I think it's much harder to find these swings that can create a shot. Like if golden state somehow got Zach Levine and I don't think it would take a ton. he would be so huge for them because they have no other guy who can create a shot other than Steph. And how many times can you run Steph in a semi-circle and set him picks and do a little hand, like they have nothing else.

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They have nobody else unless until Kaminga comes back. So.

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I will fully admit he's flawed.

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It's a 71 trade asset. It seems fair.

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Jalen's had a couple of tough ones. Jalen Brown has had a couple of tough ones this year in that respect. Like if you just watch him. Me not helping on the maxi inbounds. He'll end up with the stats. But if you watch the game, he'll have games where he just does 20 things you don't like. And you could make a YouTube clip.

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I just think he's had a really rough season compared to what happened last year, where he really, I think, won a lot of us over as this guy has taken a step up. And I feel like this year he's gone back to where he was two years ago. And there's just really, especially watching them in person two nights in a row, he's been really messy this year. And I'm waiting for it to...

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not be the case anymore, and I'm just not seeing it.

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Well, that's the thing. So you're hoping in April it doesn't become messy anymore and it's back. But I'm just saying the regular season's been messy.

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Well, he doesn't have it, but I do think if you're going to complain about the rules, not you, but just in general, the second apron, how hard it is to do trades. Like the one good thing that's happened with all of this is it's forced guys like Levine to be like, I guess I'm stuck here. I'm just going to have to play well. And he's had for what?

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For what he is, I think he's achieved whatever his talent ceiling is. I think he's achieved that. I also think now that Lonzo's kind of back, like Lonzo's getting thrown in these trade rumors. He's an expiring contract, 20 million. If you watch the Bulls, I'm not positive I would even trade Lonzo. I kind of like the bulls. I'm not even sure they should do anything. Wait, I don't know.

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I don't feel like any of their, any, they're not going to actually get anything for any of their players. So it's like, well, why am I doing anything? I'll just make the plan and try to upset somebody. I don't, it doesn't seem like any of their players are properly valued. It's like, I wouldn't just give away Vucevic. Oh, thanks. You're giving me two twos for Vucevic. I'm not doing that.

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I'm not giving away Levine and taking back a bad contract. I'll trade Levine. I'll get Bradley Beal back. Why would I do that? Why would I give away Lonzo? I like watching Lonzo.

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Then go higher and just lose your pick outside the lottery. Let's take a break and then a really fun next category. This episode is brought to you by Viore. I love sports. I know you do too. I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear, especially, you know, I do a lot of walking.

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But I'm bringing you in right now, Rosillo, as the trade value list conciliary. A thing that I have now been doing for 25 years, a quarter of a century, the trade values list, which is not a rankings. It's a trade asset list. Trying to figure out who the biggest trade asset is. in the NBA is, but before we do that, what side are you on in Jimmy Butler versus Miami? Do we have to pick a side?

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Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. Next category, possible studs on rookie deals. Going from number 68 to 62, Koulibaly, Saar, Messi. Did you expect this from him?

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And I like nine of their players.

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I have him at 66, Ware at 65. A stunning turn of events for him. And I was guilty of saying it too. It's like, oh man, imagine if... Miami had taken connect or Jared McCain. And then where the last few weeks has looked like a, you know, the kind of young big at a cheap price that anyone would want research. I'm never selling my stock on him. What case on Wallace at 63. And then Derek Lively at 62.

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Those are our possible studs. on rookie deals. And for trade value purposes, having those guys, if those guys can play a rotation role and you're paying 4 million, 3 million, 6 million, that's where you want to be. Next group. Nope. He's worth way more to us than to you. Number 61, Devin Vassell. Now this trade value starts to get fun right around here. Number 60, Zubats.

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Wasn't prepared for him to be that high in the list, but I don't know how many Clipper games I have to watch where... He's the best center in the game. His contract is three for 58. Too high, too low, or right range for him?

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Yeah, I think we do. Is this one of those things where you just have to go one side or the other?

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Instead of a pocket pass, I would call it the tibia pass. It always ends up somewhere between the guy's feet and his knee. And the guy's seven feet tall. It's like, I'm pretty sure he's not going to be able to take that pass.

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The deliverer of said pocket pass.

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So two Clippers in the top 60. Next three I'm going to put in a row. Number 58, Scottie Barnes. Number 57, Trey Young. Number 56, Jamal Murray. Big contracts. Contracts you had to do. I don't think the team feels awesome about the contracts, but you kind of, it's like those no recourse contracts. Um, How would you rank those three? I have them. Murray had a young and Barnes.

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Is that the right, is that the right order for you?

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So I'm one of the many reasons I'm glad you're here. I don't see the Scotty Barnes thing. like some others. And I might be too down on him, but I do think when you're the best guy in the team and the team doesn't win at some point, some of that's gotta be on you because I like, I think this, the Toronto team is actually pretty interesting.

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If you, if you watch them, they have guys all over the place. Even like, uh, uh, uh, it's like a 45% three point shooter. It's like their ninth man. Like they have skilled players. I don't understand why they're not better. Um, So anyway, you could talk me into him being 38 or you could have talked me into being here. And I, I aired on, I haven't really seen him be an impact guy on a winning team.

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Trey young, at least has been an impact guy on a winning team. Jamal Murray won a title Tyler hero. Who's number 55. And I think he's been a more efficient, better offensive player than all those other guys. I just would rather have Tyler hero at three for 93, then pay the max for Scotty Barnes.

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No, this is one of the ones I really wanted to hash out. Like he's averaging twenty eight and six, twenty eight and six. this season. He's shooting 27% from three.

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And I guess my fear for him, and this would actually be a good outcome for his career, but there was that Iguodala stretch in Philly when he was miscast as the lead guy who's like, I'm going to be the guy who carries our offense at the end of games. And I'm our number one guy. And guess what? The team never won.

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And then once that got repositioned as like, no, I'm actually an awesome overqualified player. number three guy or number four guy. And I'm going to guard the best guy in the other team. And I'm going to learn how to hit three points. And I'm just like completely additive. And then he found his destiny. I wonder if that's Scotty Barnes.

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I wonder if he's just miscast right now is we're going to run our offense through Scotty Barnes. I don't think you're going to win games. If you're running the offense through him, at least the player is now.

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It's like a movie where they couldn't find the guy to put on the poster. And it's a bunch of character actors and role players. And it's like, ah, I don't know. Kind of wish we had Nick Cage in this one.

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As a straight up deal though, like Scottie's making. Well, I don't mid forties, but that's part of the trade by thing. Norm's making 17 million a year, averaging 24 points a game. So you have to factor in the salary. Do I want to pay Scottie Barnes 45 or Norm Powell 17, whatever the numbers are. That's what, that's where this gets hard.

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Because if I'm paying Scottie the number I'm paying him, I only have money to pay two, two and a half guys that much money. Right? So now I'm all in. He's got to be one of my best two guys on the team trying to win the title. And I don't know if he's that guy yet.

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When you factor in the salaries, yeah. If I'd rather pay Tyler Hero $30 million. But you might be right. That's why we're doing this.

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But that second apron is a part of this, though.

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OK, I'm going to move him down and I'm going to put him in a new spot. And I actually have a better category. You talk me into it. I'll move them up 10 spots. And I might be wrong. I will fully admit I might be too glass half empty. There's a couple guys in the league I'm a little too glass half empty on.

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I was like, damn, 50 spots. Well, Paolo's another one that I wasn't sure the right rank for him. All right, so we'll go 59 Harden, 58 Trae Young, 57 Jamal Murray, 56 Hero, and then 55 Isaiah Hartenstein, who is just a winning player on a good contract. And I value what he does. When he's out there, his team plays better. And I just feel like they wouldn't trade him.

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I think he has an incredible amount of value for them. And that's that. Is Trey too low? Which way? Would you put him higher into the 40s or would you put him backwards? Because he's got a lot of intrinsic value to the Hawks, to the franchise as like their guy. And they built a pretty nice set of assets around him that complement what he does.

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you know, but I also, I'm not sure what his trade value would be around the league.

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And had a contract for this year and a player option for next year. I think that's the unusual part about it, is that there was real years on the book left. I really feel like I want to pick a side, but I kind of see both sides. What's Butler's side? Give me the anti-Miami Heat side. I think Butler's side is his relationship has been bad with the Heat for a couple years.

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Oh, you think so, Dr. Boogadat's quote.

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Every three weeks at Congo, it looks like Bill Russell in like 1963. It's got to mean something. Yeah. And I guess I wanted to put him in this list and I didn't, couldn't find a spot for him, but he's a top 85. Hey, next group.

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This is a one person group. It's called, sorry, I can't answer your call. I'm taking a long, sad walk. Please leave message after the beep. And that is number 54, Joel Embiid. I have no idea what Joel Embiid's trade value. You could tell me that Philly has to attach picks to trade him. You could tell me people would offer picks for him. I have no idea. You could tell me anything.

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I would believe it. And you don't know either.

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I would, if I want to sound a little... Can I DocuSign that right now? Can you just send that to me right now? I got a DocuSign. I have it open.

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I'll bring my own Sharpie.

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3579.016

Just watch my defense.

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It was handled horrendously by the team. It was handled horrendously by Embiid. And it's gotten worse the whole season. And I know a bunch of Sixer fans, all of them are in that zone of just like, why aren't you just telling us what's going on? Why the secrecy? Why are you hiding things? Why is this so murky at all times? It's, you know, it just sucks the life out of the franchise, the fans.

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But then say you don't know because they tried to say in the beginning of the season, they tried to make it seem like, oh, he's doing some knee management stuff. And he clearly is not going to be able to play three games in a row. And if he does, you know, the other thing when he plays well and they're like strategically picking these games or it's like, hey, Charlotte tonight, you want to play?

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Yeah. Charlotte. Great. All right. Let me, let me give that a whirl. Um, but I don't think, does anybody think he's going to be able to play four straight playoff rounds?

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Do you think he played three? Do you think he played two? What's going to be better about this two months from now?

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And he took them to the finals in 2000 and 2023. And I think at some point he felt like, you know, I brought you guys here. You guys tried to embarrass me in the press conference last year. You won't talk about an extension. You obviously don't care if I'm here two years from now. So what's the point of this? With that said... I don't think he's handled it well either.

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Also, we've been basketball fans for a long time. We've seen some things. And the direction this has gone, we just have a mental history of other guys where we've watched this kind of arc or lack of an arc. And it's like, C-Web, no, once the microfracture surgery goes through, it'll be fine.

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He should be, you know, the only one I can remember where the guy was gone and it seemed bleak and then he came back and was really good was Amari Stoudemire. especially in the 2010 season, that first stretch with the Knicks in 2011, where it seemed like he had hit that point where you just could never rely on him again. And then he did rally back.

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Embiid's carrying, I don't know, 50, 60, 70 extra pounds and more inches and everything. And I just think Yao Ming was another one. Yeah, his feet aren't good. And then all of a sudden he was just out of basketball. I think with these tall guys, when it goes in this direction, the history of the league says it keeps going in that direction. Samson was another one in the late 80s.

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Got traded to Golden State. Oh, this will go great. Oh, new team. And his knees are better. And he was out of the league in three years. So the fact that he's just not playing basketball that much is historically a horrible sign.

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um next do you think there's a trade real quick though do you did you think of any trade that you would go this could actually be some because i don't even know how you would start the conversation no the the i think i mentioned this on a pot a couple weeks ago it's an all-time bullet dodge by the knicks because i do think they would have gone all in for him last summer and instead they went down this bridge's town's path instead which turned out to be

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Way better thing. But I think they would have given up the goods for him. I don't know if there's another team, though. You'd have to have a huge salary that goes the other way. It would have to be a pretty desperate team. And it would honestly be irresponsible to trade for him with the contract he has when you don't know if he can play or not. I wouldn't do that if I was an owner.

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Would you trade deal for him? So Beal three years left this year and the next two, but I get out of the Embiid business.

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3826.291

But that doesn't solve my Philly problem because I'm taking on another bad contract. I'd rather just keep my fingers crossed with Embiid. Next group, very valuable assets on very good contracts. Number 53, Nas Reed, who's making $12 million a year. He's one of the best contracts of the league. Lou Dort, another one who makes nothing. Norm Powell, Austin Reeves.

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3848.581

who really should have listened to us when we were telling them to sign with the Spurs. Derek White, Jared Allen. The Spurs didn't listen. The Spurs didn't listen. Next group is valuable assets on not as good contracts. Move Scotty Barnes here to 47, thanks to his agent, Ryan Russillo. Shangoon at 46, Markanen at 45, O.G. Ananobi at 44.

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I think a lot of us, including me and you, have been in some pretty hairy professional situations where you ended up not liking people you worked with or the employer you had. And at some point, you still have to kind of do your job. And I think that's where it's tough to side with him. On the Miami side, Riley just seems like he's...

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3873.926

Um, I just don't love the contracts, but love the player marketing is the one that I think has been the weirdest one this season. Cause he's just, his stats aren't the same. You're paying him as a franchise guy who can, uh, you know, wait last year, he was winning games and beating teams, having best player in the floor games.

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3894.503

Hasn't really been the same this year, but I also wonder if he's just on cruise control and cause they're tanking. Any thoughts or.

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3944.506

Yeah, who's his buddy? Who's the point guard on this team who's looking out for him and getting him good shots? I'm going to say nobody.

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3979.278

Well, and also, it's two guys Golden State went after last year and didn't get. Him and Paul George. And for what they would have had to give up for Markkinen, maybe you're relieved a little bit if you're Golden State. Would have been a ton of draft picks. You're giving up Wiggins. You're putting Kaminga in there.

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And for what you've seen from Markkinen this year, not that he's not a good player, but I just don't know what's your destiny if you're Golden State. If you're built around Curry and Markkinen. I don't know where that takes you. You're not in any different of a spot than Phoenix is. Group H, always the toughest guy to figure out.

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This group's called, you realize he has a no trade clause and he's 40, right? It's LeBron James. I don't, they're not trading him. I don't think anyone's trading for him and it's a useless exercise to talk about him. All right, next group. Let me save you some time. Fuck no. Really fun group here. Number 42. That's impressive. Castle, 41. Trey Murphy, 40. Josh Hart, 39. Dyson Daniels, 38.

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Desmond Bain, 37. Darius Garland, 36. Jalen Suggs. We're getting into some real trade assets now. I'm fine to admit that I'm overrating Castle if you think I am. I just really like him. I'm all in. I have a house on Castle Island already. I'm in. I'm completely in on that guy. And the question would be, should he be that much higher than the other guys in the draft? In my opinion, yes.

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I think he's going to be a guy who could be a top three guy on a title team. And I think he's a really nice person for the Wembley experience as we travel through it for the next seven, eight years. That's a guy who can win titles with them. So I might override him.

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tried to antagonize him and alpha dog him in a bunch of different ways, in ways that if you knew anything about Jimmy Butler, it's like, you get on this road and there's no going back. So I see both sides, but I will say this, they've torpedoed his trade value at this point.

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I'm really interested to see what happens with them next two months and with San Antonio in general, because I actually think their record's lower than maybe it should be. We all went under on them. Or I went under on them. Maybe you went over on them before the season.

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I think, did you go over? No, I went under.

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4188.676

Just because I thought the West was too good and I didn't see the path for them to be in the high 30s. But they're in a lot of these games and Wemby's terrifying. And if Castle gets better down the stretch... Who knows? Trey Murphy I'm putting at 41 because I liked last year for him. I think they fucked him this year with the contract extension. Couldn't really work out all summer.

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When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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Didn't know if he was getting it. Then he gets it. Got hurt. But if you've watched him the last couple weeks, that's just the kind of guy you want on your team.

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424.901

I mean, I think you could just get him now for two expirings and they're like, good, take them because they're so worried he's going to opt into next year. The start of the season, I was thinking Houston should do Ahmed Thompson and Van Vliet and let's go all in and try.

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4248.749

that I had him this high, but the guy plays 42 minutes a game, has crazy stats, and he's indispensable on a top five team, and he's on a good contract. So I had to put him there. Daniels, we both love. Bain, Garland, Suggs. No arguments on any of those. This next group, it's three people. It's called, if you tell Shams, I'll deny it to the death, but I am absolutely unequivocally 100% listening.

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4272.756

Number 35, Zion Williamson. Number 34, LaMelo Ball. And number 33, Bam Adebayo. And I think Bam would be the surprise in that one. But I'm just prepared for anything with Miami. I don't know what they do, whether they blow it up. Who knows? Like, is Miami hanging up if you're like, we're here to talk about Bam? I just don't think they are. I think everyone on their team's available.

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Listen, I'm sorry. I could also put him in the next group. Just put him in another group. He shouldn't be in that group with those two guys. Okay. I'm going to move him down just, just to keep you happy. So it's so disrespectful. Same ranking, same ranking number 33. That's fine. He's in the next group, which is called. Sorry, we're pot committed here. Okay. Zion and LaMelo.

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4322.084

I would trade for Zion. I would totally talk myself into he's in the worst possible franchise with the worst trainers and a weird fan base and a bad city for him. If we just bring him here.

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4335.255

That's what I'm saying. If you're talking yourself into, oh, if we could just get him, we can mold him. He's the kind of guy that gets GMs fired. Where you're like, no, no, we got to do this because once we get him and then three months later, he pulls a hamstring and he puts on 20 pounds and you're like, oh my God, I'm going to lose my job. Why did I do this? That's him.

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4377.082

I was thinking it was more like the Chris Webber, Mitch Richman type of trade where you're like, oh, you're giving us Mitch Richman even though he's 33? Fine.

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I mean, we'll talk about Ahmed Thompson later, but to think like that, that was maybe an argument at the beginning of the season versus where we are now, where it's like, ah, would Detroit give up Tobias Harris and Tim Hardaway? for Butler and that's it. I don't know. Tobias is playing pretty well. Like that's where we're at with this Butler thing, which is insane.

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But that could be Golden State right now when we're talking about Hail Mary, we have to do something, crazy moves. Saying fuck it and going after Zion, that qualifies. Because if you strike oil with it, it's an amazing trade. If all the good things from the trade happen, it's the best trade anyone could make this decade. And yet, it's probably way more likely all the other stuff would happen.

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It's one of the toughest trade assets in a long time.

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The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

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LaMelo. That's another one where he's a get coaches and GMs fired guy. His destiny, I've made this joke many times, but his destiny might end up being an awesome basketball reference page and Twitter, TikTok, Snapchat, one minute clips of this guy was a problem and that might be it.

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4520.1

But you watch him on certain nights and he just seems completely unstoppable and like he can make any shot and you could get seduced by it. If it was him versus Zion, at least I know he's probably a better bet to play.

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Right between LeBron and those other guys. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So the Pelicans call the Spurs and they say, we'll give you Zion for Castle. And the Spurs say, no way. The smart answer is no way. Okay. I think you're right. That's a good, see, this is why you're a great trade value conciliary. That's a good note. I'm like mad dog. That's a good job by you, Ryan. That's just a great job right there.

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Yeah, the good thing is you let slights like that, you just forget about them overnight. Don't think about them again. Yeah, like it never happened. We're going to take one more break and do the top 33. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.

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Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime.

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4706.014

Whatever you're into, it makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of Prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them, if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. All right, 33 guys left. This is Group E. Sorry, we're pot committed here. Rosella demanded Bam be put in this group and get away from Zyada Lamella. So Bam thanks you. He's 33. Mikael Bridges, Kyrie Irving, Jalen Brown, who was in the teens, I think three months ago and I think has dropped and we can talk about that in a second.

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473.889

We don't have to. I'm not comparing ourselves to him in that way. I'm just comparing like what it's like to work for somebody when you're really frustrated with them. He's way more frustrated, I think, than either of us have ever been with anyone we've worked with. Like, he's doing shit, but he's doing stuff that...

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4753.125

Franz Wagner, Kevin Durant, And then Sabonis. And there's a couple of the contracts here. Jalen Brown, four years left, 236. Kevin Durant, two years, 106. That's this year, next year. Sabonis, four for 186. A little pricey. But what do you think of that order? Adebayo, Bridges, Irving, Brown, Wagner, Durant, and then number 27, Sabonis. Is that the right group for Durant? It is. Nudge them up.

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I think it is the age and team performance.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4802.522

I don't think the Pacers do it. It's too hard to find a guy who's like, I love being Indiana's signature guy. I think it would take a lot for them to trade him.

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Listen, I'm a second chance guy. I'm a third chance guy. And I'm even a fourth chance guy. Um, Kyrie, not one of my, not one of my favorites for a long time. And, uh, He really won me over the last couple of years. Fine. He's a late bloomer, but I don't know. I think this is the right area for him because if he's your second best player, you can make the NBA finals. We saw that in June.

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4856.118

Coherent press conferences. Hasn't done really anything goofy in about a year and a half, two years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4871.48

Two-year anniversary? That would have been a good anniversary for you as Penn to celebrate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4888.269

I think they'd have to, well, that's why I had Durant 28 and Brown 30, because I think if you're Boston and you have the chance to get out of the last two years of Jalen's contract and replace them with somebody that would keep you as competitive as you are right now, you'd at least have to have meetings about it. If you're Phoenix, why am I doing that?

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490.763

He's doing stuff that, you know, that's that's just seems like he's trying to sabotage everything.

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4906.702

I'm already all the way in with this KD Booker thing. I can't really deviate from that at this point.

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4945.404

Yeah. Four years for two 36 in the last two years in the sixties, when we're in a second apron league now, it's just, it's, it's really hard to pay your second best player that contract. I think that's why he has to be dinked. It's not totally his fault.

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4968.319

Five years. I mean, it was like 280, 285, something like that. Now we're four years left at 236. So it's just a crazy number.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5009.875

Yeah, he's 49.2 this year, 53, 57, 61, 64 in the 28-29 season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5039.753

I think he needs to unjack by about seven pounds of muscle after seeing him in person for two days. I was alarmed by how jacked he was. He looked like he should be with Jesse Ventura and Schwarzenegger and Carl Weathers in the Predator movie. That's how jacked he was. I just don't think that's... Didn't hurt Kevin Willis.

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5085.839

And a tan. Oh, you don't have a potbelly and you're tan. You can play right now. Group D. Seven guys. Budding franchise guys. Tyrese Maxey, 26. Halliburton. Gulp, Carl Anthony Towns, number 24, John Morant, Brandon Miller, Brandon Miller, Jalen Johnson, and Chet Holmgren, who would have been higher, but he's had two major injuries already and he's like 22. And I had to ding him.

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5116.591

Healthy Chet Holmgren, I think would be higher. Anyone on that list jump out to you in the wrong way or the right way.

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5136.266

The contract for Towns, 49.2, 53.1, 57, 61. Those last two get a little hairy. But he's been awesome. And there's no way he's not a top 30 trade asset. Where he is exactly, I don't know.

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5160.346

Well, that was the one. Is Ja too high on this list? And should he be backwards? Just because Ja doesn't play a lot. And it's like these one-off, then he plays two, then he's off one, then he's off three, then he's playing three more. It just seems like he's not available a lot. And it makes me nervous if that's my franchise guy. Because it's true.

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5185.672

When Tatum doesn't play, I'm like, what happened to Tatum? He's not playing? I just assume he's going to play every game. With Ja, it's like, whoa, Ja played a month in a row?

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5202.186

But they've been 19 games that he missed that have been spread out. They're sprinkled out. Like two, three, one, four.

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5244.71

Don't forget to include that part.

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5296.889

If Memphis called Philly and said, we'll trade you Ja Morant for Tyrese Maxey straight up right now, I don't think Philly does it, which tells me I probably should add job behind Tyrese Maxey.

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5348.675

So maybe it's Halliburton 26, Ja 25, Maxie 24, Towns 23. I think that's the order. I think Maxie is a little more of a hang-up than Ja is for Memphis just because of the lack of availability and some of the stuff that's happened. Are you okay with Brandon Miller at 22?

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5375.876

And Jalen Johnson, 21, you're good with. Yeah, I love Jalen Johnson. Yeah, me too. Okay. Next group. Three guys. Group C. Only if they made us do it. Number 19, De'Aaron Fox. Number 18, Steph Curry. Number 17, Devin Booker. You heard me correctly. Steph Curry number eight is 18. Here's the case. I think you and I are probably among the two biggest Steph Curry fans in the media.

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5409.019

Three years, 178 million is the number. He's 36. And if he's the best player in a pretty average team... In the old days, that meant the team would have been good to maybe really good. Now it means pretty average. That's what we've seen. I just think he's, I don't think he's at a completely different point in his career, but he's at a slightly different point in his career.

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5431.726

This version of Steph Curry right now would not have won the 2022 finals. I think there's been a slight, slight, slight aging with him. But I also don't think they would ever trade him unless he went into the office and said, you guys have to trade me. It's time. So it's a tough one.

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5475.99

Yeah. The passive aggressive trade request. Our roster is not good enough. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

5483.334

You have like five big men on your roster.

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5534.987

I only think that only thing that would make sense to me would be Charlotte. if he wanted to finish his career there. But that's just, you're punting on everything. And I do think some people feel like relationships are really important and that they would rather spend the rest of their career understanding the impact of, I was on the same team that drafted me. We won titles together.

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The 2025 NBA Trade Value List With Ryen Russillo

5557.25

I ended up retiring with some of the people I played with. I think he cares about that. So it's stupid to even have him on a list like this. Booker was an interesting one because... I have him 17th. I don't have him in either of the top two groups. You could make a case that he should be, but I just haven't liked that. That team seems super disjointed and unhappy for three straight years.

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5578.078

And he's the best guy on it. And at some point it, you know, he's 28. Uh, I just couldn't get there, but I'm also willing to be talked into nudging him up if you think we should.

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Well, let's go through it. Group B, we can go through each guy, and you tell me if any of them would trade this guy for Devin Booker. So I'll move Booker up to Group B. So he's 17. Number 16, Jalen Williams. I think they would rather have Williams on the contract he's on younger. His age is timed to SGA and Chet and some of the draft picks they have.

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I just think they would rather have Jalen Williams and Booker. As weird as that sounds from a basketball standpoint. It's also a team that doesn't really make trades ever. So you're good with that?

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Right? Jay Williams doing, you know, between him and Dort, that's part, I think, what makes their defense so special is everybody on that team can switch in all these good ways. There's high-end defenders. Like, SJ is probably the worst defender out of their crunch time guys.

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That's why it's so unfun to talk about OKC trades because it was like, I like all these guys that wouldn't trade. Like, oh, we got to improve the Wiggins spot. Do you? I'd rather like see what I have with the Wiggins. And all these guys like playing with each other, which you got to value. It's really hard to make a trade if you have chemistry like they have. I wouldn't touch it.

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It's a really fun basketball trade. Thompson for Booker. I'd be terrified to trade Thompson at this point. I just couldn't do it. Just from what we've seen in the last five weeks, to me, it's an automatic hang up. I just can't do it. I don't know what's there. The ceiling is opening up and there's real Kawhi potential now. There's Pippen potential now.

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There's potential for all-time guys when you watch him. This is beyond just, oh man, that guy's really good. We're at another level of it now. And everyone can see it. You could see it last night with the Celtics game. He was the best guy in the game. He's in a game with Brooks hits 10 threes, Tatum's in the game, Jalen Brown's in the game, and Thompson was the most impactful guy in the game.

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So I would not trade him.

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But how many years was Kawhi in college? At least three, right? Yeah. Yeah, so Thompson's at the stage right now where basically Kawhi was a rookie in the Spurs.

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You know, I'm going to, I'll move him to 16. I'll move Thompson to 17 and I'll move Jalen Williams to 15. My only fear with Thompson is this was, it's like, remember that five weeks when I'm, when Thompson was like, looked like the greatest prospect of any swing man in 10 years. And then, and then he shot 9% from three in March. So I'm just going to be careful.

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I don't want to put too much pressure on him.

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Well, you think like in the old days, I want to go to Phoenix. All right. How are we? Exactly. They spent three weeks. Now it's like, yeah, you're not going to Phoenix. Guess what? We're not taking Bradley Beal. We're not. There's no scenario where we take them. Nobody else is taking them. And on top of the Bradley Beal is a no trade clause. So Phoenix is out. Stop saying you want to go there.

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Yeah, it's fair. 14, Cade Cunningham. Congrats, by the way. I know you've been accepting kudos and plaudits for the last couple months. You never gave up. you were, I think, driving the Cade bandwagon. It's been really special this year. And his team's not good. They have some fun role players. They have some fun veterans.

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But the amount of responsibility he has game to game, this is the argument with LaMelo Ball. The LaMelo Ball defenders would say, well, his team's not good. Well, Cade's team's not good either. And that team is going toe-to-toe night after night and has a chance to... be a pretty fun playing team. I like watching him and he's been really special. So he's number 14 for me.

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I think he's on an island somewhere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They should be an ABC sitcom where he has to live with Killian Hayes. It's just the two of them in some beach house in Aruba. Just ordering the staff around. It's like below deck to 2023 Pistons. Monty Williams and Killian Hayes. Evan Mobley, number 13. Big win for me. You had your victory lap with Cade Cunningham. Huge victory lap for me with Evan Mobley. I never gave up.

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I kind of gave up a little bit. And then Jaron Jackson, number 12.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'd rather have the size than the guard. If I have somebody who can anchor a championship defense, I'm just picking that. If all things are equal. Like we've seen, there's games when Mobley hasn't played where the Cavs look just completely different. You know? And I don't know. I'm really impressed. But Jackson, who you mentioned earlier, that's been the stunner for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.

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You know, and that's a big win for Chris Vernon, who was always like, you guys are always... shooting your wad about Mobley. What about Jaron Jackson, who has better numbers every year and has been in more playoff games? Jaron Jackson's been awesome, and there's a fuck you to him this year that I really like. He had that Wembley game this year where he's like, fuck this guy. I don't like this guy.

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I'm going to go at him. He's had a few of those this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Our guy, we're not dead with Scoot. Science of life.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Anyway, Moby 13, Jaron Jackson 12. I think that's the right order.

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No, he's had an awesome year.

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No, I ended up voting for Durant, but I stared at it. I did Wemby, Jokic, and I looked at Durant and Jaron Jackson for like a half hour. And I really wanted to vote for Jaron Jackson. And I just was like, ah, it's the all-star game. It's KD, you know, he's the vet. And I just, it's not his fault that his team is run in the worst possible way, but I really wanted to do it.

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I think it's at the spite point where they just send them. This last thing that happened this week, now it just seems like they don't even care. They just want to get him out of there and try to move on. I think it's gotten that bad. I don't know why they want another team.

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I think I actually wish I had done it. I think you made the right call.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I wish you had texted me because you could have talked me into it in like 20 seconds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. The LeBron on off court numbers, when we had to do the vote, it was just, there's no way you could vote for him. He was like a minus, minus eight, something like that. Um, I think it's, I think it's a little, well, I did it this morning.

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No, it's, it's, it's gotten better cause they're playing better. Um, when we, when we had to do the vote though, it wasn't great. So Jaron Jackson's played 45 of 47 games for the Grizzlies, which is awesome. Um, And he's having his best season all the way. He's 23-6. He's easily their most indispensable player, and they're really good. So kudos to him. I have Davis 11.

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You saw the last couple games. He really big-boyed Boston. The game last night. If he's playing the right shitty team, you really do feel like he could be a 40-20 guy. He's been really good. A week ago, I was wondering if they should trade him to Golden State. Now Golden State's gone one way, and the Lakers feel like they have some momentum. The Finney-Smith thing really helped them.

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It feels like they finally have enough guys to at least guard perimeter guys decently now. And they don't have to play connect as much. So Reeves can be like the one guy you can kind of hunt, but that's it. Vincent's playing better. And then LeBron's had a little more energy on defense. Just a little tiny bit. But I'm a little more hopeful for them than I was a week ago.

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A week ago, I was like, this team's done. They have no chance.

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And bullied them too. Right. They knocked them around.

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They're at least a bitch in the round one. That's where they've at least taken this season. The Celtics had weird coaching in that game. There was a weird energy. They'd played the OT game the night before. The Warriors game was the one that really impressed me because I thought the Warriors needed the game. They wanted the game as national TV.

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Um, I wasn't sold on the Lakers at all, but I, I, they did the same thing they did to Boston on the Thursday. It was like, oh shit, this, this team's big. Davis is really engaged. LeBron seems like he, um, kind of starting to like the roster a little bit. And I really think Reeves who killed the Celtics, uh, has turned into a very fun offensive player.

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And Redick's not afraid to run shit through him and marginalize LeBron for a couple, you know, half a quarter in crunch time. Like if Reeves has the right matchup, they'll go to him, they'll actually use him, which they weren't doing last year.

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Well, especially transitions, the other thing. His transition stuff is still great. You know, like his ability to read at half court. Oh, there's only two guys there. I'm just going to go through them and I'm bigger than them and I'm going to get a layup.

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He still has all the stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Lakers have been up and down, but they're in a nice little spot right now. So this Untouchables group, Group B, Davis 11, Jalen Brunson 10, Donovan Mitchell 9. And Mitchell's had, I just love the year he's had. And they're not playing huge minutes. He's really deferred and just seems like he's been an awesome teammate this year. And I think he's the biggest reason they're winning. Last group.

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So this is a big argument coming out of the gate. This last group, completely and utterly untouchable. And I had Paolo number eight. And I struggled with that more than I think any other name in the list, whether he should be in this final group or be in the group that we just went through.

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And I couldn't shake those first couple games before he got hurt this season, how young he is and how I just wouldn't trade him. I just wouldn't be able to do it. To me, he's a completely, utterly untouchable, but is he too high?

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I wouldn't say he's 100%. I'll worry about that in March.

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I'd have him behind him. Me too. Well, Anthony Edwards is our number seven. Taking some shit this year. A little bit of a backlash season. You knew it was coming. You knew the backlash season was happening. It was going to start with the Olympics.

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It's part of the process. How do you handle adversity? How do you handle annoying media questions about adversity? How do you handle tough losses? We're fine. Tatum, number six. Giannis, number five.

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Tatum's... What'd he turn? 20... Tatum's 26? So Giannis is two years older than him?

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No, I didn't think that at all. I thought Giannis was 28.

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And like taking, pushing the Detroit's aside and teams that are like, oh, it'd be fun if they got Jimmy Butler. Golden State's the only team that's actually desperate. Golden State is at an actual crossroads as a franchise, as an organization for the decade. You know, they're just not good enough.

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Two things. Responsibility. It's among the toughest in the league what he does every night. Durability. It's surprising when he doesn't play. And when you saw, and I saw those back-to-back L.A. games in person. both teams' strategy was just beat the shit out of Tatum. Make him work. Don't let him get to his, if he's going to get to his spot, make him have to shove his way there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Always have a guy behind him. Always chip him. Like he's almost treated like the Pats treated Marshall Falk in that Super Bowl. Everybody's, every smart team's game plan is push him, nudge him, shove him, just make it hard for him for four quarters. Or like Ben Coates in the end zone. Or my guy Ben Coates getting tackled by four dolphins at the same time.

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Um, but he just keeps coming back and that if there's a one disappointing thing with me, with him, it's just like when you play like the Clippers backups, that's the kind of game this year where SGA is like, I'm going to have 55. Don't worry. Everybody can take the night off. Tatum's missing that one kind of, uh, look out. I'm scorched earth tonight. but that's it.

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That if you're going to nitpick, that's really the only nitpick where it's like, ah, tonight's the night where Tatum just scores 47 and we kill whoever we're playing. He's just not that kind of player, but I think it's okay. He gets everybody involved. Um, and this is the best he's ever played. We agree. I can't put him ahead of Luka Doncic at four.

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Like Luke has never been number one in the rankings and it probably might not ever happen because of the durability thing with him. Whereas like Shea is number three. I have Jokic too. And then for the first time, a new number one. We've only had, I think, 10, 11, 12 number ones ever. Victor Onoyama. Oh. Yeah, not Pritchard. Wemby, number one, I think he has to be. It's great.

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Jokic is having one of the great offensive seasons in the history of the league and is the best teammate since Bird of Magic and Curry. And if you want to win a title, he'd be the first pick. But I don't know, from a trade asset standpoint, the Spurs aren't even like, They're not... You're saying the word, hey, would you ever trade Vic? And they're hanging up.

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And the stat that they're one in 20 heading into the fourth quarter when they're not winning, to me, that's like, we got to go one way or the other, guys. Are we going to try to get better and do some sort of crazy all in trade? Or are we going to start going the other way and start trading off people and just tanking this season and throwing it away? And do we go that way?

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You're just getting the V and the I out. It's a hang up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're like, what? Oh, they call you back. So are you good with that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Would you put the finals MVP above or below resurrecting Westbrook's career as the greatest feat of his career? If you had to rank them one, two.

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He gives them durability minutes and stats. They needed all three, but right. I think Danny chat wrote a great piece for the ringer about this last week. It's the most unlikely connection of any two players we've had in a while. And I, For me, like, you know, as an obvious giant Jokic fan, this is, like, the stuff that made Bird and Magic so special. They could resuscitate guys.

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Like, Magic did this with Bob McAdoo. You know, Bird did this with Walton in 86. And even, like, bit players like Seechding and whoever. Gerald Henderson. Yeah. But the fact that Jokic took Westbrook, who not only was not an asset, but this might've been the only team in the league that would have signed him. And somebody were like, Oh my God, how's this going to work? Holy shit.

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But right now they're in some middle ground. And that's where like, you know, if you and I are in the Warriors office with the Lake Oaks and the GM and they're like, what do you guys think? At some point, I'd be like, look, man, I think when Jimmy gets traded, he's going to be really good. I think he's going to be possessed and you might get an awesome year out of him.

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And then turns him and they have this like real ESP thing now. And Jokic loves them. I think that's, I think that's such like a feather in his cap, just historically that he can, he can basically play with any player in the league and make them better, which is like the highest level of basketball you can reach.

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his point of view on that he was disrespected marginalized and not used correctly and then blamed for everything and thrown into every single trade rumor possible so yeah he wasn't a huge fan

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And then it turned out Westbrook was one of the better cutters in the league. Like, who knew? I've been watching him since 2008. And all of a sudden, he's like this supernatural first-step cut, almost like a wide receiver coming off the line of scrimmage.

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And this is the only way you could flip your destiny as a franchise. You might be able to get this guy for 12 cents on the dollar. And in a playoff series, nobody's going to want to see him. Do you two years from now? Do you care two years from now? You're going nowhere anyway. So that's the one team I think I could see. And there's trades. They have a bunch of contracts.

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And will teams get used to it after two weeks of games where they're like, oh, all right, game four. Now I understand what they're doing.

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I can't believe we just spent three minutes talking about Russell Westbrook, but it was totally worth it because it speaks to Jokic. Like the fact that, um, look at what we did today. I said, Trey young was too low. I took Harden's side and something. I was incredibly, incredibly concerned about that Denver team. And now I think they're fine. And they'll be there in the end.

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We'll see if they can get a buyout guy or just one other piece. Maybe they can dump Zeke Nagy and have some trade flexibility. Anyway, Group A. Paolo, number eight. Anthony Edwards. Giannis, six. Tatum, five. Doncic. SGA. Jokic. in our new number one, Victor Wimbinyama, who probably at some point this season is going to have like a 40-20-12 block game with like seven assists.

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He'll have some box score that we've never seen before, but we've seen 30 Jokic box scores I think I've never seen before this year. All right, that was fun. This is going to go up on TheRinger.com later in the week, the official list. Mike Consigliere, Rosillo, thank you so much for doing this. You have two more podcasts this week for you, right?

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Loaded? Loaded. Loaded. Okay. Great to see you, Russell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti as always. I will be back with another podcast on Thursday. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can watch the new rewatchables we did before sunrise. That is on the Ring of Movies YouTube channel. And I'll see you on Thursday.

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Wiggins would have to be in it, but that's the only one I see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline is here, by the way.

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And who knows, one of them could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

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The bigger question is that just gone now based on how this year has gone? Like, hey, his agent's Bernie Lee, who's a very nice guy. Hey, Bernie, Jimmy's in every two years contract at this point. That's just the way it is. There's nobody in the league that's going to go for for him based on the behavior. That's that's what he's forfeited on the bright side.

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But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night.

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If he's still really good every two years, he'll get an awesome contract. I think he's in that James Harden kind of zone now.

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The only reason you do it is because you love Curry. You feel like you owe it to him to at least be competitive for a couple rounds. And this is a way to honor that. That's it. You're not beating, you're not winning four straight playoff rounds with or without Jimmy Butler. I don't think.

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I'm so glad you brought this up. Riley's old. He's acting erratically, which makes sense because he's like 80. 80-year-olds are erratic.

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Yeah, I almost feel like he's coasting until the trade, and when he gets traded to wherever, he's going to unleash holy hell. That's why the Detroit... option is so fascinating to me for him because that's a, that's a team that would actually need him. That's a team that just wants to be good, relevant in some way.

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We did Before Sunrise, 30th anniversary of a movie that I love very much. Me, Chris Ryan, Sean, Fantasy. You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Rosillo came on. We started taping this late morning on Tuesday.

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And that's a team that has a really, really good player, you know, and they bring some things to the table. They're pretty well coached. Um, he raises their ceiling in a way that I think is intriguing. They're not going to win the title with them. And I think that's why whoever is trading for him is not a team that he can win the title with. And I think that's another reality of this.

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action.

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Yeah. Wait, we got to talk before we did. You really came on to talk to Bachelor, but we just did 15 minutes on NBA. Juju, though, going down last night was such just an all time, all time. Oh, no. I was so bummed out.

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Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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We're going to talk big picture about March Madness, what we have coming, things we've noticed, favorite things. Then I asked Anthony DeBundo to come on and talk about his five favorite MLB bets heading into a new season. And then last but not least, our old friend Callie Curry is going to come on to talk about the Bachelor franchise. which is in complete disarray. What's going to happen to it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1031.977

it was just a gut punch. Cause now she misses next year too. And it's just, that's like a, at least a 15 month injury. Um, I just couldn't believe it. And at the same time, like I would always, I would watch her and she was so violent with how she played, like the torch she put on her legs. And you know, this, the, the, just like the ACL stuff with female athletes is so scary to begin with.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1055.604

So I can't say I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe it. But it was, she seemed like she was superhuman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1111.312

Yeah. It felt like there was going to be a moment with that UConn USC play game. If she was playing, we're going to have an answer for like, all right, how much of this was Caitlin and how much of this is just where we are now? Cause like, there was no way I was missing that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1157.834

Some of them are, you don't know if you actually did it. And then other ones where you're just like an excruciating pain. And that was unfortunately the one for that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1205.99

I just thought the way she played was a one-on-one. I've never seen any female basketball player play like that. The side-to-side stuff she could do going full speed, there was nobody like her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1222.011

Who do you have winning the tournament now? Just out of curiosity.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1229.358

But I think... By the way, I didn't either because her usage rate was too high. You can stop that over the course of a tournament.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

125.911

So yeah, college basketball, baseball, The Bachelor. You're not getting this anywhere else. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Callie Curry is here. You can hear her on the Ringer Reality TV podcast. I haven't talked to you since you've lived in Charlotte for the year. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1266.906

I'd go UCLA. You have UCLA? I think I'd pick UCLA now. I like their team. And I like that they have real size. Real size.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1299.417

I'm looking at the odds right now just so we know what they are. National champion, UConn's plus 155. Yeah, UCLA is 7-1. I like that as like a long shot bet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1310.191

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1332.656

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1352.865

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1371.866

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA finals. One of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level, but all the historical legacy stuff. It's my favorite. You've heard me talk about it on the podcast many times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1390.202

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1442.031

I actually, we always have it on because it's one of those shows you can kind of throw on as you're doing something else. So I did catch most of it. It just feels like a, I wouldn't even say a broken franchise. It's an expired franchise. I think this is a 20 year structure of a show that is now no longer surprising or that interesting. And I don't think they know what to do anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1501.808

Yeah, it seems almost like you're doing a sociological experiment at this point. I don't get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1547.282

Right. Well, I think this is why we have a 7% success rate with the couples that come out of the show. Would be one of the reasons.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1559.201

Interesting, because they probably spend way more time just chilling and hanging.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1578.768

It's been interesting to watch the franchise evolve over the... Or not evolve... Over the 20 years. Because like Survivor was in some of the same boat where it's like they have this game. Here's the premise. And then people are like, okay, I'm kind of used to this. And then they would tweak certain things and do the tribes differently. And they were always trying to innovate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1598.353

You can't really innovate with The Bachelor. And I think... And you think like how many shows have passed it from around, like even Temptation Island on Netflix. Did you watch that? My wife dove in. I watched it too. And she thought it was good. And I might have seen a couple episodes myself, but it was just, it's like a smarter version of the same kind of idea.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1622.765

And it just, The Bachelor feels like it's out of like the 1980s at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

166.504

But, you know, it hasn't been a great season, but what would have been your Charlotte NBA impressions?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1663.183

So you wouldn't try to blow it up and try to actually change the show in some way. Because we should mention the biggest thing that's changed is in the last seven, eight years with all these reality shows, it used to be one of those things where they're like, it would be awesome if somebody just got drunk and then got mad at somebody else and they just started screaming at each other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1682.293

And the producers are now really scared of that. Yeah, it really hurt the challenge. I mean, the challenge is ruined now. It's like a sporting event now. It's not even a reality show. But it was more fun to watch train wreck TV like that. Like think about Bad Girls Club 15 years ago. I watched that too. The most insane show of all time. And now they're kind of afraid to go there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1702.985

And these streamer shows have kind of figured out that middle ground of these people are still crazy, but we're not crossing lines here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1717.387

I mean, that might be one of the changes we need to put in. Part of what The Bachelor used to do is they would have those people there until six in the morning. And they would have all the girls just drinking champagne, not eating. And they would kind of wait till two, three in the morning when they started getting crazy and sloppy. That was part of the blueprint.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1770.839

Because people are still turning out. Yeah. The people in my house and it's terrible and we're still... There's a safety to it. Where it's like, I know what this is. I don't really have to pay attention. Oh, we're going to get to the thing now where it's the two women who hate each other. And we're going to have to go on a date with the three of them. And one person can get voted off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1801.275

I saw a bunch of it. Yeah. I mean, I saw that. I didn't see the last hour, but it was on in the house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1840.982

My rule with the bachelor is always like, who's the one he's going to most want to have sex with? That's who usually wins. Well, I can see him wanting to have sex with Juliana. Juliana was like, whatever, you could just see. He had a little extra hop on the step.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1863.31

Yeah, that's the other thing. Easy is another one. I don't mean easy in the derogatory way. I mean easy, like easy to hang out with. Those are the ones that always make the final two because it's the one way The Bachelor mirrors real life. Like, Yeah. That is what you want. People who are easier to hang out with is usually who you want, like your son to marry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1882.24

It was like, hey, how about no drama whatsoever? How about the stable, awesome person?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1896.969

Right. Be a buddy. Not like the runner up. I don't know. There was some I thought it was interesting how she her personality flipped the moment she became clear. There was this new side of her that I guess she was

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1935.019

Yeah. I think the fundamental flaw with this show... is that the people watch it after the season. And if you're going to end up together and you're going to pick somebody, and then you watch them on the dates with the other people, and you watch those conversations, and you watch him tell somebody, I love you, or whatever they say. I don't know how you bounce back from that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1956.375

Sadly for me, my daughter is now at the age where I'm like, my worst case scenario for... One of the many for me with her would be if she went on one of these shows. And I just can't imagine watching somebody you care about on one of these shows like, oh, my God, like this guy was just making out with this other person in a hot tub.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

1990.342

First of all, thank you for asking. Um, I've discussed this with my, with my, um, with my wife and it would definitely be the good cop, bad cop thing where my wife would be the one who's like, Oh, she seems great. And then they'd show me in the camera, kind of side-eyed the guy. And then I would definitely pull them out to the deck and for the talk. And I would, I would be abs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

20.461

And by the way, the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit the ringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, Boston, we are coming to do a live sold out rewatchable show on Thursday and then the Coolidge Corner Film Festival.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

2034.161

That's why Austin comes in. He plays the hard-driving interview family member role.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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And that's it. Sometimes you just have the bad juju and then that's how it goes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

2066.793

That's, that's what, that would be my role. Well, the thing is, I think if, if you have no experience whatsoever with celebrity or, or being like, if you're just some random family in the middle of nowhere and your kid makes the final four and you're like, we're all going

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

2099.037

It's also interesting the way they meet the families is like the most, like nobody would do this anymore where it's like, meet my family. Here's 12 people sitting in a circle and we're going to have a really awkward conversation with four cameras filming us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

217.98

So is Seth, he's officially in his like wise vet stage of his career. That's where we've landed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

227.063

Like just taking young guys under his wing and telling them about the week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

273.281

The Charles Lee piece when he left the Celtics, just unanimous approval rating, right? And he went there and I told you that. I was like, everybody in Boston absolutely fucking loves this guy. And then it seems the same things happen in there and they're losing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

2749.599

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3071.027

Sounds like you need some advice from the sports are. I don't know if you want to bring them in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3076.934

The most obvious fix. And I don't know if they have any authority whatsoever. They probably don't. But the most obvious fix seems to be you have to stay somewhere for two years. And that's coaches and players. You just have to, that's the rule. And if you transfer after one year, maybe you have to sit out the next year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

308.608

Give me the Doc Scouting Report, my old podcast partner who ditched me, ditched ESPN, went back to coaching the Bucs. I've been studying his faces and just seeing like he seems pretty happy with the team, trying not to text him too much, but he seems okay with everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3096.835

But there has to be, it seems to me like a little more stability and it can't just be like, you know, it's 2K and you're just resetting the rosters every April. Because I don't think it's sustainable. I think it's going to be really hard for people to follow. And I still feel like they can get paid in the same way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3121.616

Right. And that's what that was one of the reasons that made me think of it, because that the flip side of it is you can also kind of nudge people out faster, too. Right. So there's no stability in any direction. So I don't know. It feels like something like that. And like if Cooper flag goes to Duke. He can't just be like, next year I'm on St. John's. I've just changed my mind.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3143.655

Now Rick Pitino has won me over. And maybe that would help a little bit. But I don't know. The horse might have left the barn on this one just in general. Sometimes with sports, things just get so wacky that you almost can't fix it. You just kind of have to hold on and... That's just kind of where you are. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3205.249

Well, here's the thing, because it goes beyond just like, oh, this is weird. This guy was on this team. Now he's on this team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3211.744

I think when you lose conferences, you lose the whole point of why we had conferences in the first place, which is to make it easier on people who are allegedly in college to play their sport and then also stay in college, which is why you had like the ACC, the way like it used to be back when Tate was a baby. Um, you know, everybody was kind of around each other, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3233.836

And the Pac-12 or the Pac-10 back in the day, it was like everybody. So when you traveled somewhere, it wasn't like you're traveling cross country to play a conference game. I have, we have some friends out here, one of them who have college athletes and one of them runs at Berkeley. It's just cross country.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3251.238

And they'll have these meets and they're like, yeah, we have to fly across country because we're playing some, you know, some school in the East Coast. And it's like, how is this a college experience? Like you're just on a plane back and forth for three straight months. So that's where like, if you had a real sports star, I think they would be looking at this like, look, this is really stupid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3270.735

Like if you're going to have these mega conferences, at least make regions with them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3281.503

Well, that's the bigger thing. Football should be over here and the rest of college should be over here. Because now, with how big women's basketball is... You could argue men's and women's basketball kind of cancel each other out from like a scholarship thing. It's not there with the revenue yet, but it might be someday. The soccer is the same thing where the soccer on both rosters is the same.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3302.195

And, but football is what screws it up and football having to match all those scholarships on the other end. And you end up with people who just wanted to run cross country on an airplane every week. Like that part makes no sense to me. I personally really miss football. The regional stuff, because those are my favorite rivalries. And I just can't, maybe I'm too old.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3321.164

I just can't make sense of some of these matchups now. But it started, this has been going on for a while. You know, this was, the Big East was the first one where it's like, wait, they're going to be there. And then the ACC, and they're going to be, and it's just, you know, it's a brain breaker. Maybe it's just gone. Tate, I don't know. Maybe this just never comes back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3383.915

What if nobody has a brain? That's the fear. It's like, what if there's not that one person?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3416.327

Kyle, when you're growing up, Kentucky's biggest rivals other than Louisville were who?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3458.065

So it's not really like a Clippers-Lakers thing. You could almost get too mad at them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3494.987

So you miscode. Coach K. It's like a canker sore that you miss having in your mouth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3514.119

What was that? He did an ad recently that inflamed my... Yeah, whatever that was. I was like, oh, man, this fucking guy. Look at him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3561.769

Yeah, it started with that fake Laker thing. That just was ridiculous from beginning to end. And then he's just kept it going. I think he saw Coach K void. He's like, how do I get the next generation of Tates to hate my guts?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3576.586

What are some things I can do? Should I just flip out at the Maui, whatever the Maui tournament's called and act like Jackass Shore?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3617.911

So he's got the Hurley family. He's an ultimate bandwagon jumper. He can't resist.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3624.253

He just wouldn't leave. He wouldn't leave the Olympic team. He just had to grab on to more people and more legacies. LeBron, everybody. Let's do five favorites quick. So I don't know. I told you guys to come up with three each and maybe they'll overlap and we'll only do four. But five favorite things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3639.597

as we head forward to a weekend with a lot of really good teams playing each other and a lot of good players. And this is like an excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent NBA draft that's coming with some of these guys that is going to be really fun to talk about. Tate, what's your number one favorite thing heading into the next round?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3693.897

He was in that top five combo and now he seems like he's in that 9-0-11.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3723.311

Maybe not the future number one pick. Oh. There's been... Yeah, Kyle knows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3731.215

There's been some, hmm, are we sure he's the number one pick stuff with him? Next year's draft is going to be, or two years from now, is going to be just as crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3753.146

I do like the idea of an NBA owner who just seems like a smiling, nice guy, no evil side to him at all, just quietly funding the state's only relevant college in basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3774.968

Kyle, does Igor fit the... where nobody kind of knows what he is, and then Sam Presti takes him with the ninth pick, and everybody's like, fuck. Is he one of those guys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3796.807

I'm going to choose to believe it's true. Very Thundery. I can't wait to mispronounce his name 19 different ways. So we're going with... That's everybody. Yegor? It's not Agor? Yegor. Okay, I'll get it. I'll get it by draft time. I'll be ready. Yeah, I'll do some practices. I'll be ready by the time we're ready for the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

381.127

Yeah, I got the sense that it's been refreshing for him to be around pro, anti, no agenda pros, basically. Just people who do their job and all like each other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3872.315

Well, right now in Fando, they're plus 950 to win the East because unfortunately for them, they're in Duke's bracket. But they don't have to play Duke until the weekend if they can make it. Yep, Sunday. We'll see. All right, Kyle, what's your first one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3932.48

Yeah, I... I only pre-peep when you give me the heads up, like with Queen, where you're like, can you do a deep dive on this guy? And then I'll do it. But I'm always like kind of waiting for somebody to trigger me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

3981.337

Yeah, so I did study him. He's one of the few guys I really deep dove because I was fascinated by him because he's such an anomaly for wherever. As you know, I treat college basketball like it's the feeder system, much like the real world used to be the feeder system for the challenge. There's nobody like him now. He doesn't seem like he can really rebound or defend the rim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4003.769

But then you watch how sophisticated his offensive game is, and honestly, it's a little Embiid-ish. I'm talking about last few years before he got hurt and Embiid-ish. The stuff he does facing the basket is really nice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4018.401

It just seems like if he's where he is now with some of that stuff, four years from now and he can start doing a little bit of the one-leg stuff or take it to the basket, jump hook, like... I don't know what he is. And I don't know if he's just going to end up being a good stats, bad team guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4035.832

But he's another one that you put on like that weird OKC team and just like, hey, this guy's going to come in and we're just going to run offense through him for seven minute stretches. Like, oh, shit, this guy. I am not positive he's a winning player at the next level because of the rebounded defense. What do you think, Tate?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

41.33

All of our favorite Boston heist movies that whole weekend. So you can check it out. The ringer.com slash events. Get tickets there. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables last night. We did Blue Chips. It was actually one we had kind of talked about before, eight years ago, before we had the category. So we brought it back for the NIL era.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4104.459

He's an interesting player prop guy. Because I could see him dropping like 35 in one of the games coming up. Absolutely. You could also see him, you know, had dropped nine and fell out in 19 minutes. But I like him. That was a good recommendation. He was definitely something. Like, I think the DL, even though his game's different, DL's a good comp because DL was like, what is this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4149.403

So then you still have to go to Washington, like plays with Sar and Sar could be the shot blocker. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. The NBA feels like there are all these like weird, talented, flawed big man now that it's almost like this new era of the situational big man. The Klingons like this on Portland. Edie's definitely like this on Memphis. Luke Cornett's like this on the Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4171.752

These guys that make sense only in certain situations or matchups. And then you see them and they're good. And then they might not even play the next time. Tate, what's your next one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

428.243

Yeah. Well, that's like your brother-in-law is the ultimate example of that, right? That's like every time somebody joins the Warriors, it just happened with Jimmy Butler. There was the big story about him talking about Steph. Like, I can't believe what an amazing teammate he is. And all he wants to do is win. And he's the first guy there and blah, blah, blah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4329.981

I was thinking in The Bachelor, in the first couple episodes, somebody will make it, get the last rose that you can tell the person didn't want to pick, but the producers are like, you got to. Yeah, you got to keep them. You got to give the lady a rose because we need her for the next episode because she'll be really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4347.248

I wish there were producer picks for March Madness where somebody could have done that with Rutgers. They'd be like, yeah, look, I know they didn't qualify, but we got to producers pick them. We're going to make them 15th seed. We needed those two guys in the tournament. Like, it's outrageous that they're not in there. Right there in the ringer draft, Ace is four and Dylan's two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4367.181

And they're not, we didn't get to see them at all. It's frustrating, Tate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4384.979

Captain's pick is great. We have no rules in college basketball anymore anyway. Couldn't they captain's pick somebody and just cram them in for the first four?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4473.322

You know, phenomenal bench reactions from him too when he's not playing. I mean, some of the best, like really harkens back to Cobra Kai and Karate Kid 1. Like a couple of the guys on there coming forward. Can we be honest?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4496.969

Duke's fascinating. Cause they're like a real basketball team. Oh yeah. I mean like, like a real one, like they can come in, you know, could they win eight games of the NBA? Like maybe, but they have a lot of different pieces, the seven foot two guy. So he popped up in our ringer draft guide, but he's had some moments where you go, wait, what's going on here? Like, this is not Hashim Thabit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4522.124

Like he can move his feet. He can go side to side. He can guard guards from 20 feet away. I was impressed by him. And then, you know how I feel about Knipple. I just, he's going to go six spots too late. He'll go like 16 or 17. It's going to be annoying. I'm just telling you now, people are going to talk themselves out of him and he'll have like a 12 year career.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4540.852

Like there's no question that guy is going to be a good basketball player at the NBA. I'm positive. But he'll go six rounds late.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4556.238

Oh, it's like one of those families? Yeah. You like those. You got to get in on those families.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4584.009

I'm counting on Kelly Flagg, who's a massive, gigantic Celtics fan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4589.972

Kyle, turn the TikTok camera on. I'm counting on Kelly Flagg to stick to her guns. The Celtics, a team that she loves very, very much. We have never seen somebody come into the NBA draft and just play out their rookie contract. pass up that, oh, I better take that one. No, no, he loves the Celtics. Five years, just plays with whoever drafts him, jumps right to the Celtics by age 24.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

459.895

Yeah. That seems to be the fulfilling thing. I think that's why Steve Kerr is like, I'm never leaving as long as he's here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4614.846

We're waiting for him. We're going to have the cap space ready. We got a new owner. Come home. Come home, Cooper. You don't even have an NBA team yet. Come home to Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4629.755

I'm going to the Celtics. Bird rights. The right move is to be Larry Bird. But like, seriously, if you love the team that much, what do you want to play for them? I always feel like, I don't know. I'm holding out hope. Tate, if you could have played Div 1 college basketball, you would have played at UNC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4646.66

You would have gone like to NC State. You would have gone to UNC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4659.164

This has been Tate's case for Steph for the last 10 years. Steph's now 37 and still on Golden State. So I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4672.148

Well, I wonder if Charlotte got flagged. It does kind of, you know, because they're already talking about the Warriors. It's a two, three year plan here with the Draymond, Steph, and Butler contracts. So who knows? Maybe age 40 Steph comes to play with Lomelo. I would buy season tickets that night. Yeah, Tate's moving back. You're moving back if that happens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

469.785

Were you worried about him a couple of months ago before they made that trade? Because as a longtime Steph fan and Steph watcher, he started to get that body language look of like the weight of world is on my shoulders and I'm too old to be able to carry this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4712.318

All right. I'm turning it back on. That sounds great. Maybe the two of them together. Finally. The four five combo. I love it. I'm with you on Duke, though, that it's been a while. I mean, we've had fun, different versions of teams, but it's a team that at least has a little bit of the Florida late 2000s or I guess mid 2000s feel where you're just like, man, all these guys are really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4771.584

Yeah, you'd think that 2019 team, it was more a collection of assets than a team. Oh, it was horribly built. Wasn't a team that made sense as a basketball team. The Duke team, you watch, you're like, shit, all right, they need size. Let's play flag and the 7-2 guy together. Right. You know, they just seems like they have an answer for everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4788.11

I'm disappointed Caleb Foster isn't playing more because I thought,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4796.794

I know. He was such a good high school player though. I'm keeping my stock with him, Kyle. What do you got for the next one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4814.084

He's a scratch handicap in golf now. Do you realize how good Tate is at golf? There's this whole Tate golf thing happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4824.771

Nephew Kyle's dad was like, just like, we played golf with Tate today. What in the hell? Couldn't believe how good Tate was. Maybe we need to do like a golf series with you, Tate, where you just play golf with like famous NBA players and just shoot it with like cool cameras.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4905.731

Go on a Reddit board and slam somebody you don't like. It's 15 minutes. You can do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4943.897

This is my number one pet peeve in all sports now is this. I went to OKC Clipper Sunday night and it was an awesome game. It was so good. And it was super physical and athletic and really competitive. And then all of a sudden the refs are like, you know what would be cool? Let's just slow this down like four different times with long fucking reviews of nothing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4963.104

And the funniest thing is they're reviewing some things, but then other things aren't reviewable, but are just as important to the game. So they go, I can't review that. I missed it when it happened. And we're not allowed to review that. But, but let me spend 10 minutes on this. I hate it. I just hate it. Nobody likes it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

4978.63

Why did we turn into a sport where they, we do stuff where nobody likes something and they're like, let's double down twice as much.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

533.462

Yeah, they got the, it's like the new guy buzz. Sometimes a TV show will have this when the new person joins a TV show and it's like, oh, good season of the show. New energy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

549.901

Yeah. I was I was way more glass half full on it because I really thought Jimmy still had his fastball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

557.79

And was just kind of had it in his back pocket waiting for the right situation. But, you know, it's the dream on Jimmy piece was going to be the fun part. But it seems like they really clicked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5711.195

,,,,,,,,. P. P. P. P. P.實... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... a,�. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. Yeah, there's some positivity.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5730.374

It's interesting, especially with some of the young guys they have. They voted the best farm system in baseball. Campbell's made the roster. He's going to play. They have Roman Anthony waiting. And it feels like they have some moves maybe to do in June, July, whether they wanted to trade for one more veteran or maybe even...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5748.803

you know, maybe, maybe you move Devers at that point and try to flip him for another big money dude that plays at a position. I don't know. They're way more interesting than they were. And then stories back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5791.584

Yeah, we don't. The Dern thing, was it a one-year superstar fluke or is this just who he is now? There's a lot of good storylines with them. And, you know, the fact that the Yankees, it looks like Arrow pointed down and then Baltimore, who I can't believe they have worse odds to win the division in Boston. It seemed like Baltimore was going to be a juggernaut for the rest of the decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5844.817

The other case with that over-under with the Red Sox is they really lost the narrative in Boston the last few years. And the Celtics just leapfrogged them in the biggest possible way. And there's still the huge hockey fan base. Then Drake May shows up for the Pats. And

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5859.745

I just felt like it was heading the wrong direction and maybe this is their chance to, oh, you don't think we're still the Red Sox? And then they blow it up. All right, what's your next thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5877.218

When they traded for Crochet, I got excited. I did because I was just like, really, they don't give a shit about this team anymore and trying to make it better. And they did that. The Bregman thing almost felt like, I think it was an overpay considering what the production has been the last six years, but he's still a good right-handed hitter who might be awesome in Fenway. He's a pro.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5897.521

I think he's been important for the leadership for them. So I get it. Did they overpay for him a little? Probably. Um, but it's, there's definitely a look, the lineup has more balance and it's going to be fun to see how they integrate the young guys. So yeah. Am I ready to jump back on the, on the watching it every day and watching what happens bandwagon? I am.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

591.59

I felt that way. I went to the Clippers OKC game on Sunday. And now Kawhi's healthy and who knows how long that's going to last. But he looks really, really good. And I was sitting there going, this would be a crazy eight seed. This team, they have two like Hall of Fame scorers slash players. Zubats is a top six center.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

5917.919

I think I've officially licked my wounds from the Mookie bets trade. Cause the Luca trade made the Mookie bets trade seem like a walk in the park. Like it's hard to even get mad anymore. All right. What's it, what's your next bet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6017.754

Well, I'm in that crazy AL keeper league with my friend Henshigan. And we had Ben Rice for $5 trying to decide, Oh, is this, he might actually get a badge. Should we, let's, let's at least do the process and look at them. And it's like, he's starting against righties for the Yankees. The guy hit like one 80 last year. So that, that was the first time I was like, Oh man,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6038.459

This, uh, where, where's this going? Like Marcus Stroman's actually gonna, gonna start for them and, and they're trying to get like 180 innings at him. I don't know. It seems like they're, it seems like a transition year potentially. And I gotta be honest, nothing would make me happier because I get to torture Jacko and JJ and, uh, and the other Yankees fans of my life.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6067.33

It reminds me a little of... Remember the Cowboys... April, May, June, when all of us were like, wow, that over-under is way too high. I don't think they're going to be very good. And then they actually had to move the over-under down. And then we got toward the season and people tried to start talking themselves back into them. And it's like, I don't know, man. I'm not seeing it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

61.357

It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. You can check that out. You can also check out the Prestige TV podcast, White Lotus, Episode 6. We broke that down as well. Speaking of the Prestige TV pod, me and Sean Fantasy and Joanna Robinson on Wednesday did We're going to break down the first couple episodes of the studio, Seth Rogen's new Hollywood show, which we were all really intrigued by.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

613.283

They have role guys all over the place. They have Norm Powell, who's like instant offense. They have one of the best coaching staffs and they have, they actually have a home court advantage finally, which is the craziest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6148.342

That sounds great. I love how we started this. All right. You have three more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6220.713

Would you think plus 350 for the A's to win 80 plus games on FanDuel? Does that intrigue you at all?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6270.76

The whole thing where they drop their first name is almost unparalleled. I can't remember anything remotely like that before. Even when you look at them on the different betting odds. Yeah, it just says athletics. Yeah, you're right. It's like Washington football team. Which they should have kept. It was pretty funny. Yeah. All right. What's your next one? I like all three of these so far.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6309.637

First round buy betting? Wow. You're waiting six months to find out if you got a buy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6428.051

Do the Dodgers, to win a record 117-plus regular season games at plus 630, intrigue you at all? That's a lot of wins, man. You only have to have 45 losses.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6492.553

And I got to say, the Dodger fans... I've always liked them. Always gotten along with them. I always thought they had a great fan base. A little cocky lately. I'm not going to lie. A little cocky. I've had to, I was with the Dodger fan recently and I had to remind, he was talking about two World Series this decade. I was like, that first one doesn't count. Nobody's counting that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6510.786

It's a fake World Series. It's got seven asterisks next to it. And you won the one in 81. That was the strike season. Like you have two asterisk titles. Settle down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

655.217

Signs of... It's like they were in the... What do they put? The hole where the coffin goes? They were in there and the dirt was starting. And then all of a sudden, Katie was like, Hey!

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

6603.271

Plus 135 to win the NL on FanDuel. And it feels suspicious to me. I thought it was going to be a minus odds. And it was like plus 135. Hmm. What do they know? And then in the American League, the Red Sox have the third best odds right now. They're eight to one. So people have, I think, been banging them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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You made me think of something before we get to your last bet. So House always does, he calls it the Mahomes layaway playing MVP bet. Or just bet it every year and it's going to hit some years. And same thing with the, Sal does it with the Chiefs. Like just bet the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl every year. Just do it now. It's going to hit every other year, two out of every three years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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And just have these things you can bet on the NFL and know you're probably going to be in the mix. Is there anything like that with baseball this year? Or anything this decade other than the Dodgers? Is there anything else you'd even put? Any player, any home run total, anything?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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That would be the only other one I could even think of if he just became Mr. Met this year and became the most popular player in the city, basically. That's the only thing I could think of. What's your last bet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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Seeing them over the Clippers, but it's a good point. Like the fact that they're the nine seed is nuts because you think about like the seven, eight, nine teams in the East and it's a little bit of a drop off once you get past Detroit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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So we got, I'm looking at, what do we have for a win total for them? Is it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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Don't get too close to him on Richardson Island. You might get hit by a football that goes over somebody's head.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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Can't they just have him work on just... Here's a 20-yard pass. There's that guy over there. Can't you just throw it to where the guy is?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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Yeah, a little bit better. I have a random Charlotte question. So Seth, your husband, is on a team that is like the way station stop on the schedule because they're not having a good season, right? You're on the East Coast trip. A couple of these teams are in the lottery. So when these teams come in, It's kind of like it's a no-win situation for the other team. They're supposed to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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Great. All right. Good to see you, Dibundo. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Tate and Kyle and Callie and Dibundo. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal for producing. As always, don't forget, you can watch clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And we're also doing it as VideoPods on Spotify every time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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You just see it, watch it, throw it in your pocket. You don't have to watch it. Then you can watch it again, whatever you want to do. I'm not sure if I'm back on Thursday yet. We're going to play it by ear. But I will be in Boston on Thursday night for a live rewatchable show. And then we'll be in Coolidge Corner all weekend for the Coolidge Corner Boston Movie Heist Movie Film Festival.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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I think there might be a couple of tickets left available. You can check it out at theringer.com slash events. So see you later in the week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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You might rest a couple guys. And that's just kind of been the whole season. What's it like to just go to the games when you're rooting for the team that's kind of in that weird spot?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So that is coming on Prestige as well. And don't forget about FanDuel Sportsbook, where player performance doubles every Tuesday, all the college basketball stuff. And then we have a bunch of A bunch of bets we're going to talk about, not just for college basketball, but for the MLB later. We have Tate Frazier and Kyle Mann coming up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, and then unfortunately, he just got hurt again. But you also had that weird... Charlotte had that weird trade where they made the trade. Have you ever seen a situation like that before?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, also these teams all... They get the preliminary medical stuff. So it's not like there's a ton of surprises. I genuinely think for some reason they got buyer's remorse and got scared and backed out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you were surprised when you heard about the trade. You're like, why are they trading him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It hasn't happened in like, I don't know, 16 years. Then Connect comes back and he's like, hey, good to see you again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Well, they really need him. Yeah, I went to the game. I went to the Bulls game Saturday night and they're just, it's so clear they're one big guy short. Like they're playing Rui at backup center and they, you know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's 38. He did play for the Bears, which is interesting. Yes, he did. He's made Notre Dame, like, kind of likable, too, to the neutral, you know? Totally. Like me. Yeah, like, it's like, ah, Notre Dame, like, you know, unless you're a fan, you kind of hate them. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I kind of like this Notre Dame fan because you go from Brian Kelly, who, you know, with all due respect, you know, not a very likable dude. And now it's like, wait, Marcus Freeman, this guy's awesome. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know if it'd work, but I think he would win the PR fight at least at the start. Absolutely.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's like Cliff with more success, like right at the college level, essentially, because he's actually won some games, even though I do like Cliff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's got Marcus Freeman vibes. He's got Marcus Freeman vibes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The thing is, it's kind of fleeting, though. Lincoln Riley, a couple years ago, was like, hey, is this guy going to be an NFL coach? And now it's like, is he going to get fired? Is he any good? So... It's tough. I think the offensive guys are always sexy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Kirk Ferentz all those years. It was always like, is Kirk Ferentz going to get a job?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The problem with Nebraska is of all the down historic programs, they're probably the hardest one to bring back because it's just how do you get talent there? You used to just get all the big offensive linemen and whatever. Blackshirt defense. Yeah, that's a huge turnaround.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's why I'm surprised, Drake, that like most of these guys, like why isn't quarterback like almost more important? Like Harbaugh, I feel like the second time around was like, all right, I'm not going to a place that doesn't have a quarterback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, absolutely not. That's a Jaguars problem. I think he's going to be fine. I don't know if he's going to be like a top five guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that's why I think the best job, Schrags, is like if Ben Johnson wants the Jags job and he goes, hey, I'll take the job if you fire Balky. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you're the Raiders, you're going to be terrible regardless. At least take a swing on somebody who has upside. I know what Mike McCarthy is. Mike McCarthy went to the Cowboys press conference and basically said he didn't do any homework on the team. This is not a guy with all due respect.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If I'm the Raiders, I'd hire Deion over McCarthy because at least you're kind of entertaining and people are talking about you. And maybe his son goes there and maybe it works out with Mike McCarthy. What are you getting?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I don't know if he's going to be a good coach. But in two years, you're in the same spot. The Raiders are going nowhere. So what's two years? If it doesn't work out in two years, you're probably at the same spot you are now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers in Vegas? Who says no? Definitely.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Vikings Get Rammed, Dallas’s Next Coach, and Bad NFL Owner Habits With Cousin Sal and Peter Schrager

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this reminds me a couple years ago it's actually many years ago now remember we were having the like would you rather start your franchise with Brad Stevens or Giannis right and we were people were actually like oh man Brad Stevens you know culture like you never know Giannis wasn't quite Giannis yet at that point it was a good argument though I love I love KOC but that's that's that's insane yeah yeah one pick would you trade what do the Jets have like I do one pick 10th pick Jets have the 7th pick in the draft yeah that seems intense yeah

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Real quick, Schrager. Yeah. The Rex Ryan thing? Is that a thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Vikings Get Rammed, Dallas’s Next Coach, and Bad NFL Owner Habits With Cousin Sal and Peter Schrager

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Chalamet's had a good run here. Maybe, you know, you get him. Yeah, Chalamet could do it. That'd be great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

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It was 40 to 1 today. Should have bet it. Come in. I had a whole conspiracy bill outfit I was going to wear that my daughter helped picked out. But I'm so depressed after the Tatum thing. I'm not doing any props. I'm just playing it straight. You're black doing a cry on your props. I'm not going to wear the props. But this was just a hilarious outcome. I just...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I couldn't believe it when they leapt into the top four. First of all, who did it for ESPN? Kevin DeGande? He screwed up. He said Philly lost their pick and Philly had it. We hadn't even found out what was going to happen. And then Philly goes in there. So we have three people jump into there and it's Dallas, San Antonio, Philly, and then Charlotte was the only one that belonged.

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And it's just, we go to commercial and it's like... Come on. Dallas isn't going to win this. Come on. There's no way. There's no way this is going to be the outcome. Stop it. Come on. What were you thinking as we got to the final four other than our buddy Charks?

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I'm feeling, I'm feeling the, this is the all time night for me to feel that way. Yeah, listen, they had 8.5% odds to move into the top four and 1.8% to win the thing. So when we went into commercial, I was like, all right, 8.5% makes sense. Charlotte had 14%. Charlotte's probably going to win. Dallas will get like two, three, or four.

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I was more mad that Philly somehow got their bacon saved and ended up staying in the top six. I think that was another thing, House, for conspiracy bill. They couldn't let OKC have the seventh pick in the draft. They had to maybe do something on that. What?

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Not going to speculate too much on the Tatum thing, but it did not look good. Worst case scenario is an Achilles. Best case scenario is like torn ligaments in his ankle or some sort of bad ankle injury. But either way, like done for the series and God only knows for how long. What was your reaction when you saw Kyle? Did you think Achilles right away?

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I'll give you the actual numbers. 0.014 for that top three to go the way it did, which I think says it all. And Utah somehow falls to five. And House's stupid team, the Wizards, who were either one of the worst or second worst teams of the season, and they fall to six. And you can't make this shit up, House.

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They traded Anthony Davis or they traded Luka Doncic for Anthony Davis and Cooper Flagg. If I presented that trade to you in January, we at least would have had a phone call about the house. Sure. I'm not saying they intentionally won the trade. I'm just saying history, the way it works out. It's like, all right, if we're going to trade Luka Doncic and we get Anthony Davis and Cooper Flagg,

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A trade that everybody thought was the fishiest trade in the history of the league, but it happened. And now it's paid off for Dallas. Just on paper, Anthony Davis and Cooper Flagg for Luka Doncic is in the realm of a fair basketball trade.

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Kyle, just make the 45 second case that how much better he is than the next possible prospect in the lottery. Like you have to take him, right?

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I mean, he's a young, young, young fella, but go ahead. Right. He's still taking like the long naps and getting up at three in the afternoon. I think he can play right away next year and be good.

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So for what they're trying to do, the question for me now is, could they flip Gafford or Lively and try to get one more score and try to buy time and just be in the playoff picture and then hope that Kyrie can come back April range and be in really good shape. I do wonder there's two trades. Actually, there's three trades and I don't think they should trade flag. I think they should keep them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But would you, would you trade him to get Luca back would be the first trade. That would be the funniest outcome of all that, right?

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That would be hilarious. I mean, they'd have to throw in contracts, but what would the Lakers do if they called and said, hey, we want Luka back. We'll give you Cooper Flagg and some contracts. Second, now, I'll do a quick Giannis thing. That story today, I don't know what the hell that story was about.

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Giannis is now open to discussions about maybe what can happen down the road in the summer and the season. Did he ask for a trade? No.

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And by the way, he almost asked for a trade two years ago. I would assume every player who's one of the best players in the league who hasn't made the conference finals in four years and who the second best player on his team just had a season-ending injury and probably isn't playing next year I would assume they're probably open-minded about some things about their future. Did he ask for a trade?

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No. How is this a story? This is what I call the Monday news thump house. We had the Friday news dump. The Monday news thump. Actively open-minded. Monday news thump. Let's start the news cycle on a Monday morning with a story that's not really a story, but we get a whole day of conversation out of it.

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Wait, so Giannis is open-minded about maybe some other alternatives than playing for a 43-39 team? Really? He's going to take some time to think about that? Anyway, if they tried to offer this pick for Giannis, which would be more on the timeline that Kyle Mann mentioned.

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They'd have to match some contracts back, but Anthony Davis with Giannis, that's not nothing. And then the third thing is, and I don't think they should do this either. So I vote no on the first two trades. What would they have to throw in with the number two if you're San Antonio to move up one spot? Oh my God. Now it gets interesting.

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If you really, and again, I would not trade flag, but if San Antonio was like, we'll just flip spots and here's a whole bunch of stuff.

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I probably would include anyone except Castle and obviously Wemba Nyama. But I just wonder, could Dallas actually turn this into a real haul? You didn't exclude De'Aaron Fox? You're putting him on the table? Well, what am I going to do with him and Kyrie? Kyrie's still on the team. Kyrie ain't playing next year, buddy. I know, I know it's not.

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So they could try it out lively with Anthony Davis and Flagg, and that's their front line, and he could guard, you know, perimeter scorers, right? And get away with it. No, why are you making gestures?

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OK, OK, OK. Also, he can grow into it. Maybe he's like a 25 to 20 minutes. Listen, there's no centers. Everybody needs a center. And if they wanted to shop Gaffer, I mean, ironically, the Lakers are a team that could use a center. Maybe we could have a little Gaffer-Austin Reeves trade, finally. The Mavs could throw in more stuff.

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Then they're the eight seed. Remember that game? I think house that I bet on Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, House did this earlier and I'm going to do my version of I'm not saying these lotteries were rigged. But if we ever found out 60 years later that a lottery was rigged, these would be my candidates. Here's my list. Number one, Patrick Ewing, New York Knicks 1985 with the seven envelopes and whether they froze the side of one of them. It would have been the easiest one to rig. Put it that way.

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Number two is the Kyrie Cleveland 2011 after LeBron went to Miami. Number three was the 2019... Thanks for trading Anthony Davis to the Lakers. Now here's Zion Williamson. Number four was, thanks for buying the New Orleans basketball team. Here's young Anthony Davis as your prize, 2012. Number five was the 2014. Man, LeBron just needs one more asset and he might go back to Cleveland.

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Ah, we'll give them number one pick. And then number six for me would be LeBron in Cleveland in 2003. Sending him... Home. Back to Ohio. Home versus sending it to Memphis. So I'm not saying the NBA rigs the lotteries. I'm just saying if we ever found out 60 years from now that there was more than one shooter for JFK and there was one rigged lottery... Those would be my, uh, my choices.

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Yeah. House. Usually with the Achilles, the guy almost doesn't seem like they knew it happened and they grab like for something behind their thing. So I was, I was studying it like, well, he's grabbing the side of his ankle. Maybe it's not, but it doesn't look great. And the irony of it was that was one of the best games of his career up to that point.

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The against the arguments was how San Antonio just got Tim Duncan and Victor went down somehow. Right. Those would be the two. Uh, San Antonio at number two, Kyle. So there, they get a lot. I mean, there's so much basketball news today. The Knicks are up three, one Tatum. God only knows how bad that injury was. We still don't know. Flag goes to Dallas. Nico Harrison, I guess saves his job.

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And yet buried in underneath all of this is, oh shit. I hope San Antonio doesn't get another awesome pick and they end up getting number two, which you think is going to be Dylan Harper, right?

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Hey, news just broke that Giannis is open-minded about barbecue tonight. But would also consider Ty. So did Frank. House, what needs to be in a Giannis trade if the number two pick is the prize of the trade to get Giannis? What else needs to be in there? Do I have to get Castle if I'm Milwaukee? Is it number two and I have to get both? Am I good with number two and a bunch of picks?

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Does Devin Vassell have to be in that trade? Who else needs to be in it?

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I mean, he's single-handedly kept the Celtics in that game for three plus quarters and was outrageously good.

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But they don't have their own picks is the problem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm President of Select States. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you need contracts to put in for Giannis trade is part of the problem.

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If I think Harper is going to be this good, what is Wemby, like 21? So young. What kind of timetable am I in anyway? And I'm the king of, hey, if you have somebody who's awesome, the timetable should start pretty soon. But Wemby's still pretty young. From a Harper standpoint, your absolute ceiling on him, could he be the second best guy on the title team?

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Is that the ceiling or would you say third best guy?

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So they just had the worst coach ever? Like how do you have two top four picks?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Like a little James Harden-ish? There's like a whiff of James Harden in there?

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House, what do you want San Antonio to do? Just the long haul? Just keep adding young pieces? Then you can maybe lure a free agent in two years? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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That was a wink-wink special, though. What's that mean? We'll trade for you now and we'll give you a big contract in the summer or whatever. That's already done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I forget who, I forget who said this on my pod. I really apologize. I think it might've been Goldsberry. I can't remember. about Fox playing with Sabonis, two lefties rolling off with the throwing the lob. Was that you Kyle Mann?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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How weird it is to have a lefty driving left, but throwing lobs to a lefty where it's like, now you have the Wemba Yama and it just like makes more sense for the lobs. Um, Philadelphia, number three. Oh, one more thing on San Antonio. So we ended up beefing up those two teams. We might've lost Jason Tatum tonight for a year.

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Cleveland's completely self-combusted and the West just, we always have, we go in these phases where it seems like finally the West, we're finally going to get a league with a little more balance. And now the league feels more imbalanced than it's ever been.

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I think we're going to have an Indiana-New York Eastern Conference Finals, potentially, unless the Celtics can miraculously come back, which I wouldn't necessarily bet on. But now you look at the two best guys in this draft that everybody feels the best about are both going to the West, combined with Lucas still there, et cetera, et cetera. All right, Philly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I asked you to send me a mock draft, Kyle, of just the top six or seven, and you had Ace Bailey going here to Philly. who is the most polarizing high draft prospect I can remember. People don't know what to make of this dude. And I got to admit, I haven't done the full deep dive of him yet, but pretty unusual. One of those guys who could have 27 points, zero rebounds and zero assists.

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It looked like the Knicks were about to pull away when that play happened. And the irony, normal pass to Jalen Brown, who just didn't have it the whole night. He was fouls, turnovers. And for some reason, the pass just to flex off him goes back to Tatum. Tatum jumps for it. has the injury, but the Knicks, you know, it was really just Tatum and white tonight for the Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Wait, we got to say what those points were because I was texting them to you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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I was saying Daryl loves fill-the-box score guys. He loves like the 18 points, 8 rebounds, 7 assists, 3 steals. What's not to love? Ace is kind of the opposite. But Kyle, you had Ace going to the Sixers anyway, but I thought you had a good case for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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We needed him to get to six foot five to be, I think the third pick, right? Cause you were worried he was going to basically be like a two guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We needed him to be a little bit bigger so he could guard basically every position.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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My money would be on Edgecombe. It just feels like more of a Daryl pick. Meanwhile, House, you're not getting either guy. That's a true story. Both of them are off the board by the time the Wizards are out.

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Um, even before that injury, nobody else really showed up. The Porzingis minutes were horrible. The two older guys, Horford and Andrew holiday brought nothing to the table. Pritchard didn't really give them the boost off the bench. And then conversely, Brunson was awesome. Um, Bridges made some big, big, big little eight, 10 footers. OG made a couple of threes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Or do you package three and Paul George and try to get somebody?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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It's like, Hey, any interest in the last three years of Paul George's contract, but you also get the number three pick in the draft. And then, you know, I wish the Rudy was on the zoom quick so I could throw out the Franz Wagner for Paul George and number three. Oh, that's not fair. That's not an interesting trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's my favorite. When people list the Giannis teams and they're like, in Miami, it's like, where the fuck is Miami trading? They're trading him out of bio for Giannis. And then he has, Giannis has nobody on his team. Yeah, great. A couple more interesting things about Philly. Two GMs saved their jobs tonight, it feels like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because if that pick falls to seven, I don't think Daryl gets fired tomorrow, but I think he really needed that pick. Um, now, now there's positive momentum in a whole bunch of different ways. And then Nico Harrison, obviously we were headed toward, you know, God only knows what, you know, we didn't talk about this with the Dallas piece. I forgot to mention it. I know a lot of Mavs fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Uh, I won't, I won't name two of them that have told me this, that, um, after the Luca trade just did not want to root for the team anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then they got flagged and they're like, I'm still out. I don't know if I believe that you've got, you got a message tonight. I don't know if I believe that. I think that's just that's somebody being wounded. But I think I think they come back for flag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The league is built around luck. You can make the worst trade in recent history of professional sports, and then it works out. You can be playing the best game, one of the best games of your career, and all of a sudden be rolling around in a heap. Now I'm depressed again. I can't believe this Jason Tatum thing. I feel like I'm like one of those things where I'm in shock and it hasn't set in yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then I'm going to look back two hours from now and be like, how did I do an hour long YouTube live?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, could Philly be good next year would be another question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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They got McCain and the number three pick coming back next year. And then maybe keep your fingers crossed. Who knows? Embiid possibly, sort of, maybe.

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Towns had some big minutes, even though he's getting torched on defense. Robinson had a couple of rebounds. The Knicks just, God, they just looked like a better all around team up until the injury.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Charlotte ends up with the fourth pick, and that's going to be whoever Philly doesn't take between Bailey and Edgecombe, or is there a Trey Johnson potential there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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There's no chance he can go second, right? You would just rule that out, cross it off. It's not happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do you think Harper has second locked up? Cause I think, I think when teams work out edge comb and really look at the, it's just the kind of guy you need and the kind of guy you've needed in the NBA for 20 years, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Well, and then you have Con Knipple going to Utah at five. And I just want to say he's my favorite in this draft just because I like him because he's a listener. So shout out to him. Hey, yeah, he listens. There's a picture of him, um, reading my book when he's like eight years old. So he's about now my favorite part in the draft. Cause I'm selfish.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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I only found it out last week. Cause I kept talking about how much I liked him. Cause remember, I kept saying that I thought he was going to go five spots too late, but now it seems like he's not going to go five spots too late. You think he's going to go in the top seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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He's my favorite player. It's a picture of him as a kid reading my book. That's all I need. I don't need any other data.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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I just, you could just tell, you know, my certain, the people who are always moving without the ball are additive. Those are always the guys I'm going to be drawn to. So number six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Um, but isn't the whole point of SAR is like, he, he's basically can be Serge Ibaka, right? So you can, You can play those two together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Yes. Yeah, it's just... I don't think he gets past six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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I've done, admittedly, not nearly enough work on this draft yet, but it felt like the five guys... And then I would throw in... I think Trey Johnson's going to go... I think you probably have Knipple... two spots too high. I think I'd be surprised if he goes top five because I think Trey Johnson will be the other one that rises up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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And I think teams will, and I say this, having the most knipple stock, as we get closer to the draft, he's the type of guy teams start talking themselves out of because they go to the combine and sound like, oh man, this guy jumped 43 inches.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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And so Knipple will probably be in that seven to nine range would be my guess, which, by the way, some decent teams in there, including New Orleans. Poor Brooklyn, by the way. Not poor Brooklyn, because it was all self-inflicted. But, you know, they were trying to tank more than anybody. Their coach was Dennis Schroeder. They had these guys winning games early.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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They had to get rid of guys, dump guys. And then ended up kind of in the vicinity of everybody else. And now they're eight. So not awesome. And then the other one was Houston, I guess, that was having dreams of maybe climbing up in the top four, but was not able to do that. All right, Hal. So it seems like we figured out who you want to draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Yeah, I was worried. I was really worried about this game for a bunch of different reasons. But the one-day rest for the older guys on the Celtics versus having the home game and then having to do it again on Wednesday night. House, before the injury, you're watching it. And I was saying to you, I was worried about this game because the Knicks hadn't played a good game in this series yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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If you're doing the house formula, there's probably some cocktails. Were there cocktails?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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For a birthday present, Adam Silver delivered the number six pick to us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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All right. We're going to pack it in. Thanks for joining me. Don't forget, I'm going to be on Zach Lowe's podcast tomorrow. He's going to talk about behind the scenes. He said it was pretty crazy as people were realizing what was happening with the balls. So I'll be on there tomorrow. Thanks to Gahal. Thanks to Eduardo as well. I really hope by some sort of miracle, Jason Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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It wasn't as bad as it seemed, but I guess we will find out tomorrow morning. Thanks to everybody who stayed on the YouTube stream as well. See you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org.

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Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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What were the odds they were just going to go through two weeks and not have a good game? I thought they were pretty good tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Coming up, this went from it was supposed to be a really fun podcast to not a fun podcast at all. But we're going to try to go through it next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming for you on Tuesday night. We did Death Wish. It is big ass 70s month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Yeah. There was one point I looked at Tatum and wait, where I combined 13 for 25 from three. And then the Celtics were still like down by a point. I'm like, that's not a good sign. If you had told me. that that was going to be the number. It was six minutes, seven minutes left in the fourth quarter that those two guys were going to have that and they would still be losing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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So Jalen rollercoaster game. Before Tatum got hurt, I just thought he was so good on both sides. I mean, he had five steals, two blocks. He was all over the place, just over and over again, attacking towns, attacking towns, attacking towns, and really kept them in it. And the irony of what happened late was that it felt like this was going to be

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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you know, potentially another version of the Jason Tatum game. He's had a couple of those. Like he had the game in Milwaukee, he had the game in Philly, but this was, I thought the best all around game I had seen him play a couple of dumb threes here and there. But for the most part, uh, was, was awesome. Did the Knicks seem like a finals team to you, Kyle?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Yeah. The offense just fell apart in the last quarter and a half of the game where you could just feel it. You can feel when that, the ISO ball stuff starts, the balls, they stop running plays. They stop going, Oh, let's post up holiday in this player. Let's run a little pick and pop with Derek way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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I am going to be on Zach Lowe's podcast on Tuesday late morning because he has Tales from the Lottery. Hopefully we'll find out what happened to Jason Tatum because he got hurt at the end of game four today and it did not seem good. And we're about to talk about that. as well as one of the craziest lotteries in the history of the week with Joe House and Jay Kyle, man. That is all next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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And it just becomes all one-on-one stuff, clear out, you know, the one for kind of offense, which I don't know how it's,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Brunson made some great, great, great shots. And the Celtics fell asleep to a couple of times. Like they left them open from three. They didn't switch over in time and they just kind of let him get into a groove because you can kind of always feel when he's about to go on one of his little runs. But I thought Bridges really helped too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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And I didn't think Tibbs did a good job offensively the first three games, but I thought they mixed it up better in this game. It felt like everybody was a little more involved. So this could go down as... We'll see what happens with Tatum, but this could go down as one of the darker Celtic days. I mean, honestly, because especially the timing of... Not to mention, he's at the peak of his career.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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He's never had a major injury, Tatum. And if this is a major one, it doesn't just take him out for this playoffs, but it takes him out for, I think, all of next year, too. Uh, as you said, he is late twenties and you just wonder, like, is he going to be able to get back to the point that he was at tonight? So we'll find out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Because I can't like somehow houses fan base didn't crack the top two for, for, uh, Most depressed. Yeah. Well, we'll see what happens with Tatum. But this speaks to A, how hard it is to win a title. B, how important injury luck is. And C, how hard it is to just put together some really good years in a row.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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Even to be in the finals two years in a row with how basketball is played now and how physical and intense it is. Tatum was playing 40, 43 minutes a night and doing everything. He was the leading rebounder on the team. He was guarding Brunson. you know, a few times in this series. And, and today he was kind of their best option to guard Brunson. He was the point forward over and over again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're live. I really wanted to cancel this. Tonight was not a good night for Celtic fans. Holy shit. Really tough loss in MSG. I don't know how long. J. Kyle Mann is here. Joe House is here. We're going to talk about the lottery later. We're going to play off the next Celtics game as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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He's attacking the rim. I thought when heart tripped him, I couldn't, I thought that was a dirty play. They didn't even review it. Um, but he, you know, he was getting pounded on the whole game and, uh, You know, you need some luck with this stuff. We're gonna take a break for the podcast. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

783.076

Remember last year, people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula? One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? Degree listened. They admitted they messed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent, and thank God. You've got to love when a brand can own its mistakes.

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Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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And it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores right now for under $4. Grab some. Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers. The original degree cool rushes back. And it smells like victory for all of us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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The real reason you guys are on is because we're going to talk lottery. But for the... I'm going on Zach Lowe's podcast tomorrow. We're going to... Zach went to the lottery. And I'm basically going to set picks and rebounds for him as he's going to talk about what it was like to be behind the scenes for that. So, House, you had... What were your odds? You had the second best odds?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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You forgot about 2011 when they had the decision. And then the year after Cleveland won the lottery and got Kyrie Irving.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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So the best way to get the pick is to trade your best guy to the Lakers. And then the miracles will align.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Tatum Suffers a Devastating Injury, and Dallas Wins a Wild NBA Lottery With J. Kyle Mann and Joe House

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I know. We had a worst contracts pod and I did a 35 second spiel on how we had to bet on Dallas to win the lottery because it was clearly how we were headed. It's all in one of the podcasts. And House was like, come on, that's crazy. And it's like, it's not crazy. It's like 101 odds. Let's bet it. Of course, we didn't bet it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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We'll talk about that later, but the one mistake you can make, I think, is when you're drafting this high. to take somebody just out of need. I have never seen that really work, right? Danny Kelly, how many drafts have you covered for us at this point? Has the, ah, this is too high, but we really need this guy. I just don't remember that ever really working.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's gonna be some podcast stuff on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel where you can find all the clips and episodes from this. I actually did a video about three of my favorite unforgettable things that I saw going to a game in the 21st century so far. So you can check that out on my YouTube channel. All right, coming up, we are just talking football today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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Craig, who's your, I wouldn't be shocked if they went in the top four guy because mine is the tight end. I think Tyler Warren. Really? I think between four and nine, all of those guys are right around the same if you don't need Travis Hunter, which I don't know if the Pats do because they just spent on a quarterback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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But I just feel like you could talk yourself into the running back or the tight end pretty easily. And you could talk yourself into Membo. And you could talk yourself into the edge rusher from Georgia.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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Yeah, sometimes it worries me when there's only one really good guy at a position because by comparison to the other guys, you can almost overrate them, right? It's like, I don't know, going to a bar and there's one good-looking person in the bar and you're like, man, that guy's so handsome. And it's like, yeah, that girl is so incredible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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Yeah, that's the only part that worries me with that. I do wonder with the Penn State tight end, though, with everybody so...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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worried about offensive lines how can we block like that guy is an old school I can block I can catch and like even for the Pats if you just add him and it's like this would be Drake Mays number one move the chain guy this guy will help us with the block we'll figure out the left tackle but at least we have like I don't know if you take him at four but you could talk me into it all right I think that's a huge mistake

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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I imported all three fantasy guys, Danny Kelly, Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck from our Ringer Fantasy Show and our Ringer Draft Show. More since the Ringer Draft Show right around now. All three of them are on and we're going to be breaking down our favorite things about free agency in March. I have some awards to hand out. There's a lot of draft subplots in it too. So stay tuned. Check it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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Unless you thought this guy is awesome. That would be the thing. If you think he's... a top three guy at the position for the next 10 years, I think you have to think of it differently.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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I wouldn't do it. I'm just prepared for anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

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I think you guys should do this with your podcast. Talk about it's like a generational fantasy football podcast. Right. I think when the word generational is used, people just pay attention more. DK, do you buy the whole gentees on par with Bijan and Saquon for running backs in like the last 12 years as like that caliber of prospect?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1324.579

Well, for the Pats, I hope it's Carter or Hunter. And if it's not that, it's a trade down. We're going to take a break and we'll be back with the generational fantasy football guys from the ringer right after this. All right, we are going to rip through the first couple of days of free agency. I did a gimmick. It's a gimmick I used to do way back when. You guys have done it on your podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1344.597

I didn't tell you what it was. trying to just blindside you, um, giving out awards, but the awards are all from the glory years of comedy as Craig Horlbeck has anointed the two thousands, right? This is the end. Just all of the movies from there. I'm just giving out awards. I wrote some down. Maybe you'll even come up with a couple as we're talking. Uh, the first award, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1368.467

is the Seth Rogen, Katherine Heigl knocked up award for we've known each other for a week. Let's do this. That goes to the Seattle Seahawks, Danny Kelly's favorite team. They traded Gino and they traded DK Metcalf for a third and a second. And then they said, we're all in. we're ignoring the last two weeks of the season. They didn't happen. Sam Darnold, three years, 110 million. Let's do this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1394.306

Let's get married. Uh, Danny Kelly, walk us. I know you did this on your pod yesterday, but walk, walk my audience through this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1468.537

Certainly a new era. You're right on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

147.482

First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're recording this. It's 11 PT. I have the ringer fantasy football guys here, Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Craig Kohlbeck. And there's only one domino left that would really affect this conversation. And of course, it's Aaron Rodgers, who maybe by the time you hear this, he'll have a team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1506.319

Who wears a visor. A field tilter. Who's kind of in his prime. With an initial acronym as a first name.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1516.907

Is there a possibility of Stephon Diggs coming off another injury, just being surly about Sam Darnold being his quarterback, but you're paying him $17 million a year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1548.274

Yeah, don't even listen to this part. Um, Danny, other Danny and Craig, um, I kind of like Gino Smith. I thought he was running for his life the last two years. They couldn't block for him at all. He was good at the end of games. He wasn't great, but he was good. And I get that he's 34 years old, but, um, I don't know. This just feels like moving chairs around on a boat that's sinking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1613.452

A little bit. Sorry, Danny. Danny, you can remove your ears now. Take your earmuffs off. Hyphus, what do you got?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1726.614

On paper, getting seven years younger, Getting a third round pick and seemingly going sideways at quarterback is a strategy that makes sense. But I thought, I just thought Gino was in a really hard situation last year. I was shocked to find out Gino was 34. I somehow didn't realize he was that old.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1744.335

And it sent me on a Geno deep dive that led me to the ESPN piece about when his teammate punched him in 2015. And I read like four stories about that. And I was like, how has this not been an untold episode yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1778.243

I mean, for Vegas, he's got Bowers, who's got one of the best weapons in the league. I assume they'll probably have a couple signings coming, I would guess. He's going to be in some fun games. New scene, new scenario. I'm happy for him. I didn't really like what the Seahawks did. DK, I'm sorry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1799.829

Next award. Normal. It's the Brick Tamlin killed the guy award. For the seemingly okay situation that got completely out of hand way too fast, and that would be the left tackle drought. This hit the point. Craig, you rooted for Dan Moore as your left tackle for years. My God. Was there ever a world in any game where you were like, this guy, I bet he's going to make $20 million a year next year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1849.063

So we have him. We have Jalen Moore, who wasn't even a starter, to KC for two for 30. Yep. The Ravens re-signed Ronnie Stanley for $60 million, a guy I wanted for the Pats, and then I texted with Mallory, Ravens fan, and she's like, I didn't want us to keep him. He gets hurt all the time. Too many false starts. So congrats to them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

186.094

But he couldn't resist taking an extra two days to decide between two teams that don't really want him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1867.756

Allard Johnson on the Rams for $3 for $58 actually seems like one of the best deals anyone got. And then Washington Trades... a second for Tunsell, which was shocking on paper. And then I think everyone kind of realized the Texans weren't exactly like the, uh, the hogs in the eighties.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1885.316

Um, and now we have this draft coming where we'll Campbell and, and Membo and banks might all go five to six spots too high. Cause we still have what? Six, seven teams that still don't have a left tackle. Not to mention Trent Williams of the Niners who could retire like tomorrow and nobody would be surprised. And Armstead on Miami, like God only knows what happens to him year to year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

1909.162

What about you? How are you feeling about your new 34-year-old tackle? He's not even a left tackle. He's a right tackle. We still don't have a left tackle. DK, what happened here? Why are we out of left tackles? Why is this such a drought?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

20.448

And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, we're going to talk football in March. Why not? It's next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

200.818

Yeah. Who wants him less? If you guys had to pick between Danny wants him less. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2012.682

Would you say it's the second most important position now behind quarterback because of how scarce it is? Would you put it over every other position?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2095.558

This is why the Pats are going to take Bimbo. Craig, are you an Anchorman 1 fight guy or an Anchorman 2 fight guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

210.667

Can you walk me through that? Why do you want Aaron Rodgers? Because he looked terrible last year and anytime he got pressured, the stats are like truly abysmal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2132.694

I genuinely think they made Anchorman 2 as a movie that people wouldn't think was good for 15 years and would have this belated, you know, it's actually really awesome, Anchorman 2. I think we're right heading into the zone right now where it's going to come back and become a thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2162.136

Still haven't done Anchorman on the rewatchables. Craig doesn't want to do it. Oh, here's one for you, Craig. The Dracula the Music Award for I Can't Believe This Actually Worked Out. It's Dracula the Musical. Yeah. There's no way that should have been a good scene. And it turns out to be one of the best, funniest scenes of the movie. The odds were like 200 to 1.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2184.938

I feel like the Patriots free agency has worked out. I can't believe it. We had all this money to spend. We have a cheap owner. They were saying how free agency wasn't that good. I get it. We overspent a tiny bit on Milton Williams. I love Spillane. He was one of my favorite non-Patriots on Sunday Ticket every Sunday. The guy's just an absolute animal. Enjoyed Matt Collins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2210.034

We're trying to get locker room, guys. We're trying to win our locker room. But Jamal Williams on the Saints just got waved. Let's bring him in, too. Let's get locker room, guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2222.184

Anyway, I'm genuinely excited for the Pats defense. Craig, talk me out of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2231.23

Gonzalez and Davis. Wow, you can zag on this. Go ahead.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2267.452

Spillane's like an old school 2003 Pats guy. Like I could have totally seen him next to McGinnis and Vrabel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2295.972

DK, when do we get the text from Mina in June or July that she studied all the defenses and thinks the Pats can have the top five defense? June 20th? When is that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2366.562

We've been aligned for the entire 2020s with our two dumb franchises and just doing dumb shit and spending money on the wrong guys and picking the wrong players and just the overall sense of there's no plan at all. You're still in that. You're still mired in that hell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2382.512

And maybe this won't work out, but I actually like that there seems to be a plan for the Patriots where they're like, let's build through the lines. Let's get culture guys. Let's get guys who, if you go to the Reddits of each team that lost the guy, like I went to the Raiders Reddit, 110 posts about Spillane.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2401.072

People were like, oh man, I'm happy our guy got a bag, but it really bums me out. I was like, okay, this is great. The Harold Landry Titans Reddit wasn't awesome. That was the one where there might've been an overpay, but I also think that's Rabel's guy. But Typhids, do you at least feel like there's a plan here?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

245.871

Heifetz, you're just shaking your head sadly. So Rodgers going to the Giants and just throwing Malik Nabors on a bad Giants team in the same stadium where he sucked last year just sounds absolutely miserable, even by Giants standards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2483.934

Spillane is like the guy in the program who just was out of control. And then it turned out, but I'm not saying he did that, but it was just like, he's everywhere. And you're like, oh my God, this guy's a maniac. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2504.611

Well, and then the Nats DC had him. Yes. So they, I mean, because he was on the Lions last year. That was one of the things that seems like they were grabbing a lot of dudes that they had a history with, which made me feel...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2589.128

Even 2016, there's not really... Don't forget about trading back out of the Trent McDuffie spot and then taking Cole Strange right in front of Karloftis. The all-time double win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2647.275

Craig, if they take Hunter four and say he's going to be our number one receiver, but we're also going to use him as a nickelback, is that one of the most exciting developments of the season? Because it would be for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2677.543

Maybe he could just be awesome as a pro. Can you do a little more attractive of the musical before we move on?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2688.771

All right. Next one. The Borat stays at an old Jewish couple's bed and breakfast award for. Oh, I have a bad feeling about this one. That goes to the Jets and Justin Fields. Two years, 40 million. We've all kind of glossed over this. And I got to say, I've heard some takes about he was doing well with the Steelers before they put in Russ. It's like, no, he wasn't. No, he wasn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2712.064

Craig, you're a Steelers fan. You were watching those games. Did Justin Fields ever at any point make you feel like we've got our guy? No. Lock him down. Of course not. We watched those games. It was like the whole reason Russell Wilson got the job is because Fields wasn't quite good enough as the starter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2805.363

Neil O'Donnell was another great one way back when. You left out one thing with your Jets blueprint. Which I agreed with. I thought you did a great job. Like around week six when it starts getting sad and they come back from commercial and it's like... Chiefs 34, Jets 3, and they're just showing a sad guy in the stands with a Fields jersey on. That's the last piece of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2829.117

Because the Jets fans will buy in and they will buy the jersey. And then around week 6, week 8, it's sad. I just... I don't think he's a starting quarterback in the sense of you can actually win playoff games with him. DK, you agree with that, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2891.584

Yeah, and I think the fans will want him to succeed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2954.782

It's the Seth drinks too much and accidentally headbutts Emma Stone award. This goes to the Jaguars. I never understand what they do year after year, but this year they waived Christian Kirk so they could spend one year, 10 million on Deami Brown. And I just wanted to flag it. It's a seemingly small thing. Nobody's hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2973.788

It's an innocent kind of dopey free agency thing, but it just, to me, sums up the Jaguars. Like, just keep Christian Kirk and don't waive him and don't take the cap hit on him. Now you're taking a cap hit on him and you're paying Deami Brown who had... What, one good playoff game? I just, I don't think the Jaguars will ever get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

2992.75

And one of the reasons they'll never get it is because the owner's son who runs the team also runs AEW and writes all the scripts for it every week. And I just don't think they're on the ball is my take.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

303.78

Danny Kelly, you don't have a dog in this race.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3050.767

It's been terrible the whole time. And somehow they almost beat the Patriots in a pivotal game in Foxborough. And we're leading in the second half with Blake Bortles. And that was like the one moment. I think for your show next year, I think Craig shows up for the combine with an old school Ray Allen Sonics jersey and tries to pick a fight with Jordan Schultz because his dad is the reason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

307.261

But you cover football for The Ringer and you're on our podcast. You must have some sort of opinion.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3076.96

It's a good battle. I think it's good publicity for the show, and I just think it's a good game plan. Anything else on the Jags before we move on?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3116.013

The Jags, they never disappoint. All right, this next award is from Bridesmaids. It's the Annie takes sedatives and has a drink on the airplane award for single worst game plan. That goes to the Cincinnati Bengals, who seem to be the only team that doesn't realize you should just pay your guys six months early instead of a year and a half too late.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3137.794

And a lot of people have been talking about this this week, but they're just fucked because they haven't taken care of Chase. They franchise tag Higgins. He'll probably hold out. Hendrickson wants to trade. And then in the middle of this, they paid $8 million a year for Mike Gusecki, which is like, so you guys need to find money, but you're also going to pay this tight end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3157.387

This is the easiest position to find anybody for a million dollars. I don't understand what they're doing. I will say this, though. Trey Hendrickson last year was unblockable down the stretch. I know their defense sucked, but that guy was beast. And I don't understand any of this. Danny Kelly, can you explain one aspect of it or are they just cheap? Is it they're just cheap is the answer?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3224.806

I'm vacuuming my house instead of working.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3230.688

I'm really hoping for Joe Burrow to go NBA player on this whole thing. The best thing about the NFL is if Joe Burrow is represented by Clutch and just leaking passive-aggressive stuff out, they better take care of these guys or else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3246.056

But nobody takes that seriously in the NFL because it's such a facelift. He really needs to own it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3268.969

Yeah, that's terrible. Are you upset Kristen Wiig didn't make more comedies, correct? You know, there was like two more bridesmaids in her and just she didn't want it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3298.265

Oh, we have, this is happening. It's right, right now. Coincidentally, it's our next to word. It's the Melissa McCarthy. Look away, look away. Is that a word? Which has to go to the Saints. I don't think there's a more depressing team in the league than the Saints.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3315.942

I tried to understand the Derek Carr thing where they're paying him more this year, but they also don't really want him as their quarterback. And it just seems like they're punting on this season. And they're like, well, from a million years ago when Sean Payton was here and we just kept pushing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3333.434

Like, I don't really fully understand the NFL salary cap and all the machinations of it because it just seems like you can just keep shoving money forward and do what the Chiefs do and some other teams. But the rub of it is this Derek Carr situation where... you can't shove it anymore. And the guy stinks. And now it's like, and now you're in this Russell Wilson, Denver type of situation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3387.168

Like the Sixers. They're just screwed with Paul George and Embiid now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3424.634

It's brutal. And they have the ninth pick. And if Sanders is there, I think they have to take them, right? When are they other, you know, unless they just don't, I just don't know what they do, but is there, Craig, is there a team you'd less want to be a fan of than the saints right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3441.052

They're number one, right? No. Even if your jets are giants, like giants, you can be like, Oh, we have Malik neighbors. Well, we're in New York. Well, we have a good defensive line. I don't know what the case is for the saints. No, it's bleak.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3467.639

Yeah. Well, I went to Saints Reddit just to see what the vibe was. It's grim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3476.749

They really don't like Derek Carr. They weren't doing backflips about Chase Young for three years for $57 million. I'll tell you that much. Yeah, what does that solve? Yeah, and they lost a few guys, and it's pretty grim. All right, next one. This is for Craig. It's the Step Brothers Catalina Wine Mixer Award for Single Funniest Concept.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3498.291

And that goes to the Steelers if they sign Aaron Rodgers and have him throwing footballs to DK Metcalf and George Pickens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3555.987

Yeah, you should get Isaiah Stewart from the Pistons and just have him just suit up and just try to start fights. Heifetz, what's the worst idea paying a second round pick and $30 million a year to DK Metcalf, knowing that George Pickens is going to take this personally and immediately also want to get paid, or having Aaron Rodgers as your starting quarterback for those two guys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3640.12

I think I was like one of the last three Pickens defenders. Craig's probably last. Craig's there. But when he... When they ended the game with the Browns Hail Mary on the Thursday night and instead of trying to catch a pass, he just decided to start a fight during the play. At that point, I was like, I think even I'm out on George Pickens because it's just insane behavior.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3661.012

Oh, Sarah Marshall, we're back again. The Peter Brenner hooking up with Sarah Marshall Award for I'm happy for you, but are we sure this is a good idea? Yeah. Chris Godwin, three for 66. And everyone's saying, no, this is great. That's a great price. He took a discount. Did he? Did he take a discount? Because he had a torn ACL a couple of years ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3684.795

He had like a really badly broken ankle last year. So now he has two major leg injuries. He's about to hit his 30s. And like I was I got to say, I was worried this was going to be like a Pat's overpay. I was worried they were going to give him like three for seventy five or something. I don't know if this guy's going to stay healthy. Why are we just penciling in Chris Godwin to be awesome again?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3764.103

People are saying he got a deal on it. Heifetz, you had that with Saquon, right? He came back from the ACL and it was an extra year before he looked like Saquon again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3847.061

Craig, is that Sarah Marshall scene when they hook up again and then stop? Is that a top 20 aborted blowjob scene for you in movie history? Top 10? Where would you go? Single white females won? I have a giant folder under my bed. I'd have to go through that. Check that out. You can do it on Rewatchables on Monday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

390.418

It's like that colonoscopy juice you drink when you're about to get the colonoscopy. Oh, yeah. It's a cleanse. The cleanse juice. The problem is we all watch football every week. Yeah, he's not Enigma, he's Enema. That's his follow-up documentary. That's the second documentary. He didn't want to get hit last year. It was obvious. And I just, I don't think he's a winning quarterback anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

3918.16

The Mitch hooks up with a high school senior award for, Oh, this is an aging. Well, this goes to two aging guys, the Rams dumping aging Cooper cup. So they could overpay aging Devante Adams two for 46. I don't understand this either. Unless they just think Cooper cops, Cooper cups body is, is shot, which I would probably tend to believe them. Hype, what'd you think of this one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4004.038

So Adams is Jimmy Butler in that scenario?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4009.622

I got to say, I was really I like Ty Fitz's football terminology during that little rant there. I think Devontae Adams. You've come a long way. It's good. You're talking X and Y, spacing. I was impressed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4092.328

He won't be on my fantasy team, Craig. Devontae Adams won't? I don't. It checks a couple boxes for me. Guy getting older. Guy didn't have as good of a season last year, as the stats say. Guy changing teams again, who's a receiver. That always makes me nervous. I don't like when receivers change in general.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4125.017

I can't afford to get divorce hyphens. That's, that's really what it came down to. She's like, you're not playing again. This, this could be a real issue for us. And I was like, okay, good to know. Oh, let's go to, this is the end. Nice. The Michael Sarah. And this is the end of work for most hilarious cameo. It's going to go to somebody you're not expecting. Anthony Richardson. A two-year cameo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

413.925

Like I honestly, I'd rather not, not trying to push Joe Milton on everyone. Cause I know it's in my best interest as a Pats fan, but I would much rather just roll the dice with a young guy and hope they were good versus running back last year's Aaron Rogers and saying, well, now he's a year more removed from his horrible Achilles injury. And maybe he'll be crisper this time. I just don't,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4149.009

Passed through our life. Amazing combine. Got super excited. Went flying up the draft. Oh, my God. He's like Cam Newton with a... And I guess we're done now. Kind of like Michael Cera in that movie where he's just... Michael Cera's been murdered. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4172.303

Danny Dives is standing over him holding a... So they signed Danny Dimes for one for 14 and the Colts are saying we want these guys to compete and in the words of James Babydoll Dixon, I wish them a lot of luck. That sounds like quite a competition. What are your thoughts, Craig?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4212.97

Is Dimes qualified for your two years after the injury rule?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4284.875

I almost this almost made me wonder, do they do this as a way to boost Anthony Richards confidence? Like if they think this could still be our guy, well, what do we do? Well, we'll bring in this guy to challenge him. But the guy hasn't been good in three years and he's going to kick this guy's ass. It's almost like, isn't that what Joe Flacco was?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4311.318

No, it's like the beginning of Rocky 3 when Mickey was like staging all these tomatoes for Rocky to make Rocky think he was this invincible champ. And I think Daniel Jones might be a tomato.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4340.529

That was like when Kevin Clark almost got... I think he did get hit by a car. He got hit by a car more than once. No proof of vision on Kevin Clark or Daniel Jones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

435.173

As I've said on the pod, I think even you guys, I think Brady has ruined everyone's ability to look at this stuff rationally because Brady's ability to play until he's 45, much like LeBron, who is now 40, and every day it's like, LeBron now has the most... offensive rebounds by a 40 year old ever. And they're just listening to stats because nobody else can play that long.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4354.561

Should have been standing there. One of the ones... That's true. Why was he on the sidewalk? The Matt Damon Zero Trip Cameo Award for the most unexpected moment of joy for all of us was the Bills just randomly getting Josh Palmer. I thought of Craig immediately. Craig's never, you have the most stock in this guy. This guy, he doesn't know. Do you have a texting relationship with him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4375.515

Like, are you friends with him? If he's in town, do you eat dinner with him? Like, how does it work?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4414.342

I like him too. I was playing a Madden season with Drake May and I traded for Josh Palmer. I just put him right on the pads. Guys, I was thinking that rant Craig just did about Josh Palmer. Yeah. When he, during the five spots, during the, as you guys are getting closer and closer to the drafts,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4430.174

You can just run that as a video, like on a loop, like in speed with Keanu Reeves standing next to the bus driver. And Craig could go like, P, just run the same rant over it. Like you'll get a glass of water and just run the Josh Palmer rant and go. I'm excited for Josh to Josh Heifetz. Josh squared. There's something there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4499.542

I like Josh. I'm rooting for him. We don't have to talk about this next award, but I'm just going to throw, because we talked about the top, but the Damien Cockburn dropping his cast into the jungle award for craziest idea that just might work is if the Giants can just take Sanders at three and send Hunter or Carter down. I'm going to be focused on this for the next six weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4519.72

Next award, the Danny McBride making breakfast award for the transaction that randomly brought me the most joy. Kenny Pickett traded to the Cleveland Browns for DST in a fifth. I stared at this for 20 minutes. How did they decide that a draft pick should be involved? Does this mean the Browns are going to start Kenny Pickett? How did Harry Roseman get a draft pick for Kenny Pickett?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4548.529

And if you're the Browns and you're one of the stupidest teams of the last 10 years, should you just ever trade with the Eagles under any circumstances? I loved all the aspects of this trade. Does anyone want to take a crack at trying to explain this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

456.572

I just think Brady's ruined it for everyone else. I don't think it's, I think the Kirk cousins path of how this goes is the more realistic way this should probably go. But Aaron Rogers got what he wanted because we just spent five minutes talking about him on this podcast. Could have picked the team yesterday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4603.924

Who's the Eagles backup now? McKee? Tanner McKee? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4608.308

I would add that to the sad Kenny Pickett facts. Tanner McKee made him expendable, apparently.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4624.822

Heifetz, is there a chance Craig is talking himself into Kenny Pickett as like a sleeper stealth fantasy starter in like August 10th?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4635.207

Okay. Because you've always kind of deep down liked him a little bit, Craig.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4652.461

I lost some stock on him. I'll tell you that much. I bought some stock before that 23 season. I invested.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4682.786

Yeah, my new rule is I'm just going to ignore every single thing that happens in the preseason and just stick with what I thought in July. All right. Only a couple more. The Simple Jack Award for most inevitable box office bomb. The Miami Dolphins. When do the over-unders come out? When? When can they come out, Fandle? Fandle, can you just put out a Dolphins over-under now? I'm going under.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4709.167

I don't care what it is. Is it eight and a half? Under. Seven and a half? Under. Six and a half? Fine. Under. They can't make the under low enough. And Zach Wilson for $6 million, we rented home. But it was like, the Tyreek trade request is coming. They lost Javon Holland. Today, there was an article about, hey, They got a chance for Joey Bosa. They're one of the finalists. It's like, cool.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

473.082

So I have this whole gimmick I wanted to... Before we do that, I couldn't help but notice how free agency seems like it might be affecting the draft. Because, for instance, the Patriots, and we'll talk about them later, but they really loaded up on their defense. They got another awesome defensive tackle to put, hopefully, with Barmore if he's healthy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4733.687

He plays four games a year. That fits right in with the rest of the best guys in your team. They are still 43 to one on FanDuel to win the Super Bowl. I'd like to announce I'm booking that bet. If anyone wants to bet 43 to one on Miami Dolphins, I will book the action right here on the Bill Simmons podcast. That team's going to suck. Simple Jack right there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4772.863

Tyreek on the team in September, Danny? I'm going to go no. No. Feels Chargers-y to me. Feels like the Chargers have been quiet, so they just lose Josh Palmer. They desperately need some speed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4798.194

Yeah. I think Dolphins are going to be terrible. Craig, anything to add on Dolphins before we go to the last award? It's like the Mad Men quote. I don't think about the Dolphins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4808.805

I'll actually have two more awards. I have the I Love You Man Award. for sneaky best signings. Cause I think I love you, man has become the sneaky best comedy of the two thousands. It just came out. There were too many comments. It just kind of came and went. And, uh, I think it's a solid, I think it's a rewatchables candidate. I think it's really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4832.94

It just came out. 09 was just a glut. It was like when the draft has receiver gluts and there's just so many. It's like, whoa.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4849.389

All right. So sneaky best signings. I mentioned how much I like the Spillane signing to New England. I just love that guy. But I, Drake Greenlaw to the, to the Broncos really jumped out to me because that's another one where it's coming off the injury and now there's been enough distance and he just fits in with what they do. I just, that one jumped out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4868.013

I was like, ah, that's a, that's a really good one. What, what was your favorite sneaky signing DK? Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4878.245

I think... You could say Josh Palmer, even though we already talked about him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4888.917

No, it was, because they got rid of Carlton Davis and basically paid DJ Reed less to play the same position.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

493.753

So that removes Mason Graham from them at number four. There's no way they take him now. You have... The Vegas at six who traded for Gino, you have the Jets at seven who signed Justin Fields. Makes me wonder why either one of those teams would want Shador Sanders.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4945.978

I thought the Pats were going to get him and they went with Carlton Davis instead because the DC coached him. But I also think it felt like an attitude pick. He's like a big shit talker, like tough guy. And I think they want the defense to have guys like that. But I thought DJ Reed was really good last year. And I agree with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4964.645

I thought the games I watched, it felt like he was even... What do you have for your sneaky signing, Craig?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

4997.659

Did Aaron Rodgers get signed yet? Because I only have one more award. He's just going to wait till Thursday. He's milking it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5012.303

Enema from Religion of Sports. May 25th. All right. Last award. The waking up in a trash Vegas hotel room with a splitting hangover, a random baby, a tiger in the bathroom, a missing tooth, and a missing buddy award goes to the San Francisco 49ers, who lost everyone on their team. I know. And they weren't good last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5031.941

They lost Tufanga, Ward, Greenlaw, Kinlaw, Debo, Aaron Banks, Jalen Moore, Hargrave, Yusek. They overpaid Ayuk, who immediately got hurt. They locked up McCaffrey right before his inevitable injury that everybody knew was happening. And now they're about to overpay Brock Purdy. This feels like a car going off a mountain in slow motion. It might have already gone off the mountain.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5056.743

DK, you have to be ecstatic because there's no team you hate more than the 49ers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

512.058

And the two guys I heard McShay and his partner talk about yesterday, like, is there a scenario where Travis Hunter falls out of the top five? Is there a scenario where Sanders just falls because nobody in the top nine wants him? I guess my first question, Craig, is the fact that fields is on the jets. and Geno's on the Vegas, cross those teams off for you as a Sanders destination.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5126.431

When you said Andy Reid timeline, I immediately thought to the year when they went like 4-12 and he got fired.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5138.222

One question that I think people will probably start thinking about when we get to August, because there were so many coaching jobs that flipped, is what are going to be the big coaching jobs in January 2026? And if you're just going, if you had to like handicap it, I would say the Niners and the Dolphins would be the two. Is there another? Is this the Steelers? Would you throw on there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5167.152

Craig, to be fair, I said big coaching job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5199.477

But I just feel like they've lost a lot of games in the third, fourth quarter. A lot of big games over the years, even going back to Patriots 28-3. I don't know how that doesn't hang on him at least a little bit. Like that team never comes through when it matters over and over and over again. And even, you know, I, I don't know. I, I think he's a good coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5221.676

And I, is he one of the 12 best coaches in the league? Sure. But I don't, I wouldn't value him like that to me. I would value somebody like Tomlin way more where, and I know Tomlin drives, you've had him forever, Craig. He probably some things about him that drives you crazy, but he hasn't had a good quarterback since like 2015. Yeah. 16, whatever that last good Roethlisberger year was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5250.452

True. I just, I think he's fine. But if he's like the savior in New York, first of all, his interviews are a little weird. Kendall Roy-ish. Yeah, he's a little, I don't know how that would play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5270.426

But he's also a no Brock Purdy away from he would have been fired two years ago because that Trey Lance thing would have run the franchise into the ground. So I don't know the answer, but I don't know. Would you put him, DK, would you put him in like your top five coaches? Because I would not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5330.698

Well, but to be fair, that was the Andy Reed thing. Cause that was when I was writing football columns and basketball columns all the time. And Andy Reed, uh, I had him in the playoff manifesto. I was like, never bet on Andy Reid in the playoffs. He was like rule number six and he had a lot of bad ones and they piled up and it got to the point where you said, yeah, this guy has a fatal flaw.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5351.091

So I don't know. But it does feel like this feels like the end of the line for the Diners in a lot of different ways. All right, so we didn't get to talk about the Joe Milton sweepstakes, the Bears beefing up both lines, J.J. McCarthy time. For the movies that I think we hit every movie except we didn't talk about Mean Girls. Didn't talk about Dodgeball. Pineapple Express.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5374.215

Any award you want to just pull out of your back pocket, Craig? Just with no prep at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5380.08

We didn't do Road Trip. Bang. What's bang? Don't. Don't. But who does that go to, though? I used to carry this when I was a prostitute.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5393.43

All right. That's good. All right. This is fun. So when's your next podcast? Tomorrow. All right. Well, maybe Rodgers will have decided, but my guess is he won't. Who's going to milk this for all he wants? Two teams left. Danny, Danny, Craig. Great to see you guys as always. Craig, I'll see you tomorrow when it's threatening to become sports movie month on the rewatchables.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5414.528

Do you want to announce it now? No, but it's another sports movie. I've never seen it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5421.829

All right, great. Good to see you guys. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Danny and Danny and Craig. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti as well. Don't forget, you can watch all the clips and videos from this pod on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Don't forget about Rewatchables, Best in Show, Prestige TV, Hittin' White Lotus. Episode five's coming Sunday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5442.905

And I will see you on this podcast on Thursday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5471.454

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

5492.709

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

58.834

We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did best in show. It was me and Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson. You can check it out on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well, or you can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. Joanna Mallory and I also did a recap of season four of episode four of White Lotus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

585.612

Heifetz, what's more realistic? The Raiders take Shader Sanders or the Raiders take Tyler Warren so they could have taken a tight end in three straight years with a top pick in the NFL draft if you had to pick one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

606.324

So four tight end offensive impossible? Is it like a four receiver? Could you just put all of them on the line?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

619.694

Danny Kelly, I have a counter for both of their takes. Tom Brady on the record a lot with how we rush young quarterbacks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

627.922

How these guys need time to stay there and learn how you want to integrate them. That's what happened to him with the Patriots. He had like a year plus where he didn't think he was going to play and it was so helpful to him. If there's anybody who's going to talk themselves into, we already have Geno Smith, but let's also take Sanders six and put him in the Geno Smith, Tom Brady QB camp.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

648.382

It would be the Raiders. I don't think it makes sense. I can't cross them off yet though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

713.473

Well, the Patriots are screwed because at four, we're all really hoping somebody trades up to four and they can move back and take a tackle. Jets aren't going to trade up, I don't think. Raiders aren't going to trade up, I don't think. That leaves the Saints, who just seem like they're in hell. We'll talk about them later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

729.119

Heifetz, my best chance for the Pats, for either Carter or Hunter to follow the Pats at four, is if your Giants take Sanders at three. And to this point, now it is 11.13 a.m. PT. They still have not signed Aaron Rodgers. But if they don't get Aaron Rodgers, the Sanders thing at three becomes a little more realistic, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

81.23

This show is getting lit. I can't wait for everybody to see episode five. We're actually recording that episode this week in episode five. It goes up a few levels. I'm just warning you. But I think the show has been really good. It's been really fun talking about it. We're doing a ringer. 100 best sports moments of the century thing that you can find on the website. We've done videos.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

821.095

So there's a chance. So the Giants could take him at three. They could also trade back, potentially, because nobody else would take him. And then the Saints would be the only other one that needs him. I have no idea if the Sanders family would even want to go there. But, you know, he's not good. These quarterbacks are not good enough to go 1-2, and you guys are doing a lot of the legwork on this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

843.534

Craig, is there any scenario where the quarterbacks go 1-2? Because last time I checked, Cleveland doesn't need a quarterback and just traded for one that we'll talk about in the next segment. Why wouldn't they just take Sanders if he was good enough?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

904.528

Heifetz, who's the most shocking person you could see actually going in the top four of this draft?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

963.154

Cause I know Craig, did you, did you mention, did you measure your arm length? Is it over 33 inches? Do you think you could block? Could you block an edge rusher? Because you got to get to 33 plus inches, apparently. Will Campbell's only at 32. How does that translate to height?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

985.452

You just need to get your hands far enough out to shove the guy back. And apparently Will Campbell, that extra half inch. There's no way we could take him for it. I've said this before.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly

999.655

The Pats cannot take Will Campbell fourth when we're not positive if he's a guard or a tackle. I've said that already. I just feel like if there's any doubt whatsoever, at that point, just take Membo because everyone's like, he's definitely a left tackle. We don't know how good he is, but I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm on a lot of threads. I like what the Pats did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

0.229

You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

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A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1074.642

Yeah, this is the dream game for Josh Hart other than he was one for five from three because this is a kryptonite guy for the Celtics for how they're composed. This undersized dude that you kind of... You have to just leave him open, but when you leave him open... He's basically doing the Drew Holiday version of what Drew Holiday does, multiplied by three. And just, he's around, he's annoying.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

108.833

We just said, screw it. We went live on YouTube and I talked to Zach Lowe about the NBA. Speaking of the NBA, uh, on FanDuel, we are doing a tail or fade concept that we had that we tried last week. I pick a player prop on Wednesday's games, uh, you decide whether you want to tail it or fade it and you get a big profit boost either way. So I think we're going to do SGA scores.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1097.57

The Celtics are not a great rebounding team. They're like a team rebounding team. Tatum's probably the best rebounder on the team. And that's the kind of team heart. They don't have the Durin on the team. So he was, I thought, all over the place, just being frisky and annoying. And I mean, he ended up being finished with 29 points and he was six for 11 from three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1118.024

I'm not sure he could play better than that. But I thought what was notable was he was carrying himself like he was as good as those guys. So there's a recipe in place because the other thing that's alarming, I mean, they played 51 for Bridges, 45 for Hart, 43 Brunson, 45 Ananobi, which is just like, this is just what this is at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1138.658

But they seemed healthier and fresher than the Celtics, right? Tatum seemed fine. Drew was moving good, white. But for the most part, you got Horford out there playing huge minutes because Porzingis can't play. Horford ends up at 34. I thought, because this became your kind of game where it was like, all right, the Knicks want to get Brunson on Horford. The Celtics want to get Tatum on Towns.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1164.541

And that's just what we're going to do for the last five minutes of the game. We want this match. You want this match. I was wondering... If Missoula would go super small with Tatum at the five and put Pritchard out there instead of Horford. Do you think that was in play? Maybe. Maybe. Because then now you're switching. Now I guess you would hunt Pritchard in that scenario with Brunson. Maybe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1188.496

I think I like that matchup more for the Celtics than Horford.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1211.064

It was a play with the food, settle game. And... Everyone who's watched the Celtics team in the last couple of years, they've watched the team goes up between 17 and 25 in the third quarter. And then for whatever reason, it just drops and they'd go too slow. And we've seen it. We've seen it 50 times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Yeah, Michael Pena wrote about that for The Ringer, that they basically just emulated the Orlando strategy. And Towns in particular, there were plays where he just was kind of wandering around like a drunk guy leaving the bar at two in the morning and the Celtics were just trying to find him so they could torture him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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But listen, what Orlando did, that's basically you're forcing the Celtics into the play with your food strategy. I'm not super nervous yet. I don't know why. But I just feel like everything went right down the stretch for the Knicks in that game. And the Celtics just, it was a weird game. The Jalen Brown thing makes me more nervous than the Porzingis thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Because I think they can win without Porzingis this series. Long term, I don't know if they can win four rounds. But if Jalen's going to be, you know, he was seven for 20. He was one for 10 from three. And I just don't feel like athletically he looks like he did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I know, but I wasn't counting on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Oh, no question. But to me, Porzingis is a bonus. You know, when you miss half the season... And you look like you did in the last series. Where I was thinking about is, can they get him right if they get through the Knicks to this next round?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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30 plus points in game two is going to be the player prop. So check out FanDuel and you can check out the odds for that and apply your profit boost as well. All right. Without further ado, here's Zach Lowe. And without further ado, here's Pearl Jam. All right, we are impromptu live because we were taping the BS podcast with Zach Lowe. It is 9 o'clock Pacific.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Because you come off that Knicks-Pistons series, and you're like, all right, they barely beat a Pistons team that doesn't have half as much talent as the Celtics. Like, come on. Listen. One of the great Knicks wins in a while. I know a lot of Knicks fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I don't think the hopes were super high, but the Brunson piece of it, the fact that this guy can be this great at the end of games, really, you feel like you have a puncher's chance. And this would be, you know, if they could somehow do this, this would be a phenomenal, phenomenal upset. Right. I mean, they were the Celtics where I think they started out minus 1000 for the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I think they ended up like minus 800. And I think the general feeling was that the Knicks were going to lose and Tibbs was going to get fired. So now doors open. Who the hell knows?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Last thing I'll say, and then we'll move on to the OKC game. Tatum, who I think has been spectacular and has been playing the best he's ever played. And I thought he was awesome in the Orlando series. And just in general, as a two-way guy and as a dominant kind of bully force, really went to another level. I don't know if it was a full step up, but it was somewhere between 50 and 75% a step up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1473.59

And you could just watch it day in, day out. I thought yesterday was not a good game for him at all. And I'm really interested to see how he responds because that was three years ago, Tatum, watching him. And they need him to be the best player in this series to win. And maybe basketball, I was thinking about this, actually. Maybe we just overthink all of basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Maybe it just comes down to who has the best player who's going to play the best in the series. And that's just all we should look at. Maybe that's what the Denver OKC series is. Maybe that's just going to come down to who's going to be better, Jokic or SGA, and that's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Well, the other piece of this now is the Knicks have three home games. And if they take care of business in all three, they advance to the next round. And everybody's going to talk about how incredible and amazing and awesome that crowd is going to be. And it will be. Um, but I also feel like the Celtics team in some ways, I trust the more of the road.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Um, I don't know what happens to them at home, especially when they have these big leads and the energy just kind of dips, but the game's going to be incredible. The tickets I think are going to be for this series, probably the hardest Knicks tickets since 1999. Yeah. right? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Oh, it'll be. I, so what I was hearing from the Celtics side was it was finals level to get in the door, just even game one. Like that's how hard it was. Nick's is even harder. And then it has the added thing of the Adam Silver, James Dolan, whatever is happening there. And, you know, I think the Knicks take as many tickets as possible and give them to whoever they want.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And just in general, I think for the demand versus, oh yeah, I can help you out. There's no, I can help you out with these Knicks camps anymore. It all comes down to Dolan because he controls everything. And the Dolan, Adam Silver thing is just bizarre. This is the, this is the feud between, that everybody in the league talks about, but nobody actually talks about out loud, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I think it's way angrier and weirder. Like at this point, he's just the dissenting vote and basically any chance he can get, he's going to do it. And it's just gotten super weird. So that's this other variable of this, but Boston, New York, amazing. All right. We were in full swing with the NBA playoffs and there is no better place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1689.961

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.finder.com. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant. Remember last year, people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

1756.23

Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers. The original degree cool rushes back, and it smells like victory for all of us. I think OKC should be more nervous than the Celtics, and here's why.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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That game yesterday, it reminded me a little of, I know we're not supposed to care. What's it called now? The Commissioner Cup?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Emirates Cup. And Milwaukee kind of kicked their ass in the last game. And it's like, this means nothing, but just something to file it away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Put the banner up. But that game, there was a big bully on the other side. And then OKC fell behind and it just became Shea and is anybody else going to help me? And then nobody was helping him. And the game yesterday, which it felt like OKC was going to win for 44 minutes. And then Denver just hung around, they hung around, they hung around. And Jokic was, I mean, that was an all-timer from him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And I said to Zach, why don't we just go live for the people that are on YouTube that just want my panicked Celtics reaction after one game. I'm actually not that panicked, but we have... An incredible Monday night. We had this whole other plan that we're still going to do at the end of this, but was not expecting all the basketball yesterday. Two fantastic games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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But as it got closer and closer... And it just became Shea, anybody else? Is anybody else going to do anything? And they just seemed young. They got out-rebounded by 20. They got a really good Shea game. They got an unexpectedly good Caruso game. I mean, statistically. They got 20 points from Caruso, but they just gave up a monster Denver game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And Denver's down to five guys, and they're a little like the Knicks. They're like, here are five, and maybe we'll get 15 minutes out of Peyton Watson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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as the fifth? I am, because I think Porter's legitimately hurt. People have been kind of talking about it and whispering about it, but I think Porter...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Like there's, he's legitimately hurt and I don't know what they can count on from him. So they're down to five plus injured Porter plus like a whiff of Peyton Watson and a whiff of Deandre Jordan. Then that's their team and they don't care.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Is there a support group for this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I want to talk about the Celtics first, but which team should be more panicked right now? Celtics or OKC, in your opinion?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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You left out one piece. They fouled the guy 70 feet from the basket. Yeah, instantaneously. Why not let him dribble 40 feet, kill three seconds, and then foul?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I was one of only two people out of 100 that voted him for best coach of the year. You know, have you found the other one yet? I'm not going to be bullied into group think votes. I thought the team won 68 games and was missing one of their two centers for half of the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I still don't understand that part. I thought there were cases for both sides.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Because Darius Garland's face wasn't broken because Mobley's a year older. Because Mitchell re-signed and knew he was going to be there because Ty Jerome was awesome. Like, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I do. I used to do this with Popovich, too. I don't like for some reason, if you're too successful from a team standpoint, then you somehow get penalized as a coach. Like the sweet spot is there has to be a jump in wins from a year before to the year after. Like Emea Doka got more votes than Dagnall. Dagnall won 68 games. They beat everybody. Anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Well, he screwed up. But it was a two-part screw-up. It's whether you foul with Jokic on the floor as one piece, but then the other piece is when you fouled and that you didn't rip off. Foul was six seconds left or seven seconds left. There were so many great things about that stretch down the last three. Jokic, the bully ball, jump hook on Caruso.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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was just like, there's just nobody, nobody does that. There's nobody who's like, oh, you have this. I'm at the top of the key. I'm just going to work you down 15 feet and then scoring you. But then the other one, that three he hit over Hartenstein, where he was like doing the pump fake, faint, pump fake, faint. And Hartenstein's like, you know, he's what, 6'11"?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm President of Select States. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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He didn't have like a huge margin of error, and he just fucking drained it right in his face. Tough shot. And then the next play, they do the right thing. They triple team him. He finds Russ. Russ is open by 12 feet, misses. Gordon gets the rebound and somehow didn't score. And then it felt like OKC had the game. And then, of course, they didn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Swarm. That was Game 4 Clipper Series Jokic in that game, too. he was an absolute animal. And the, you know, that clip that went viral today of him just screaming at the entire huddle and, and everyone's just like staring at him. Like they're watching a UFO. Like he has complete command of the entire bench. He, I mean, 42 and 22 and six assists in a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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They put that list up of the guys who've done that. And it was not a long list and it was all the, uh, some of the best players in the history of the league. Um, I felt like I've watched him do have a game like that 12 times this year. It wasn't like, it was like, whoa, this is a career game from Jokic. I was watching it going crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I wonder what OKC's move is here because Chet, who I think is awesome, I think he's a top 20 trade asset, didn't seem big enough against him. And then Hartenstein.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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What do you think about, do you think we'll see Dort mess around Jokic and hoping to get the Jokic turnaround elbow in the face flagrant foul every game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Yeah. I did not think this was going to be a series. Yeah, you were adamant. You were adamant. I have to text messages to prove it. I just didn't think with five guys or five and a half or six, whatever the depth that OKC has. It just seemed like a tall task.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And then you watch OKC looking a little wide eyed and young and you, you know, it's the mistake we always make with this stuff is forgetting the playoff experience piece. And they just don't have a lot of it. Like who was the guy that showed up for OKC yesterday other than SJ?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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It was Caruso who played in a bunch of big games, you know, and that's, so maybe, maybe this is becomes a longer war because there's no way that Denver wins the first one. They'll win at least one in Denver, right? This is probably 2-2 after four. And this is going to keep going. And we'll see. We'll see, you know. A young OKC team. What do you got?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Because we are now in real sphincter tightening time. Let's go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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So the case for the Celtics is what you laid out, specifically the Porzingis piece. Because you go into this series and you go, all right, am I getting a healthy or a relatively healthy Porzingis? I know I'm getting a healthy Sam Houser. Well, he gets hurt. And then what am I getting from Jalen? Where is he? And then also, how much am I getting from Drew? Because Drew had this hamstring.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And I think somebody who takes real pride in being a champ and being part of something special, because I could feel it in those Clipper games I went to where, especially game four, where him, Jokic, and Murray all had that attitude of, we are not fucking going down. We are not losing this team. And you know who's becoming like that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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He's ready for all of it. I think this is an amazing story because they fired their coach with like a week to go in the season and their GM. And they basically, you do the, you're basically announcing, we don't like how this team was coached and we don't like how the roster was put together, which is usually insulting to about half of the roster, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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But somehow I think during the course of that Clippers series, they found something, you know, but I look back at that series, like the Clippers should have won game one. They just threw it away in a bunch of ways. And then game four, they had it. They had it in the last minute and it really felt like that series should have been at least three one Clippers. And then the Nuggets flipped it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And by the end of it, then James Harden decided to become James Harden again. And that was that. But I feel like the Nuggets have found whatever identity. I also feel like watching Jokic last night, it really showed how well the Clippers were able to defend him those last couple games. Like Zubats, Zubats has to be like, see? See how well I did? Look at all the stuff he's doing in this game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I was trying to hold him down. Same for Batum. But anyway, that was a nice little prepping for this OKC. That was a war. And by the end of it, they had really conquered that Clippers team. The OKC is minus 320 to win this series right now in FanDuel. And the Celtics are minus 370, which I think is notable. So they think...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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The Fando and the betting community think Denver has a slightly better chance. There's more of a recipe, in my opinion, for them. The Celtics-Knicks thing seems to hinge more on injury stuff, health. Can the five Knicks guys keep playing big minutes like this and seem as athletic and competent as they did last night? And the Denver one...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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This is more of a look in the mirror for OKC, it feels like. All right, you guys ready for this? Because this is a team that won the title two years ago that has the best player in the league, and they are up for this. So what do you got?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Well, Drew actually looked, I thought, really good. He seems healthy. Porzingis looked terrible in the first quarter, like alarming, like texting people, like, what's going on with Porzingis? Then we never see him again. And he has this mystery illness that I've never gotten a real answer for what it is. And then they lose Hauser too. So all of a sudden now you're basically down to six guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Well, we didn't even talk about the Westbrook piece yet. There's this great video. The Nuggets studio announcer is watching the Gordon three and they inbound the Paul. They get the rebound. They throw it to Russ and Russ is dribbling over midcourt and all three guys are like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then he passed it to Gordon and Gordon hit the three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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But that's that Russ rollercoaster ride, especially like he is now prominently involved in this game and he's been really good for them. I got to hand it to him the last couple of games, the right amount of energy. He hasn't done like a lot. I got this. It's like, okay, I guess I've got this shots, but not a lot of clear out. Like guys, I figured it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Like even him passing to Gordon, I thought was a win because two years ago, I think he just tries to go to the basket.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Gordon hit the three, and I don't know if you noticed in the video, Russ just screams like an absolute maniac. He wanted it so bad because you forget about the OKC piece where he's, I would say, the most popular player in franchise history even now. SJ is probably in the process of taking it. And then he goes back against his old team. He's been on so many teams now, you forget that

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Joe House talking himself into him. I think that's probably my favorite. It's more like a friend memory of Joe House being like, look, the guy plays hard every day and he's inspired Beal. I mean, what else do you want from me? So if you had to pick one team to lose and be upset between Boston and OKC, I'm telling you right now, I came from the future.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

295.59

The counter would be, they got every shot they wanted for, 45 minutes, basically, right? They missed a record amount of threes. Nobody has ever missed 41 threes in a playoff game. They missed 45. There was some crazy stats this morning about how open those threes were, how lost towns looked on the defensive rotations. So I'm sure Missoula is like, look, we just, this is going to happen sometimes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I'm like, one of these two teams is going to lose. Who do you think it would be?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Um, I would say, okay, see, but maybe, uh, maybe I'm too optimistic on, on young Jason Tatum, who, who I thought was awesome this year. And I fully expect, but man, if OJ and Anobi is going to play like that. Woof. Uh, all right. Taking one more break for the podcast. And then, uh, we're going to do our town's Porzingis thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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I asked you cause we've been doing deep dives on Tuesdays, which is, was the original plan today before those two games are awesome. And Towns is kind of unlike any other player in the history of basketball for what the perception of him is, what his career achievements are from like an All-NBA, hasn't made the finals, two 13 All-NBAs, that's it. Seems like he's going to be second team this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Pretty frustrating. I would say he's probably the Knick The Knicks fans probably have a love-hate relationship, just being kind. But then you see stuff like, all right, how many players in NBA history have averaged 24 and 11? And it's like Kareem, Wilt, Bob Pettit, George Mikan, Elgin Biller, Towns, Embiid, and that's the entire list. What is this career? We've seen 10 years of it. What is it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Tries really hard. He can get in little funks sometimes if he's not getting the ball. It's the one thing you could ding him on. If it's a game where he's a stretch five afterthought, he can get a little sulky. The fouls are still really bad. He, especially at the end of games, you know he's going to have one. You're just kind of waiting on it. I was looking up his playoff game log.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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In the last 18 playoff games he's played that finished in single figures. So we're assuming they're close or relatively close. He's had five or six fouls in 11 of the 18 games. So, you know, like if it's a close series with a lot of up and down stuff, he's either going to foul out or be in foul trouble or be lingering around that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Is he going to be able to stay in this game for the last three minutes?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

320.066

We're going to miss shots. We can't panic. Don't change who we are. With that said, I hated the last couple of Tatum shots in regulation. To me, that's the worst of the Celtics. When they're just settling, they're playing with their food, they're letting the shot clock go down, and they're not attacking a team that just doesn't have rim protection.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3209.302

Let's make this our mission. Can you get off the foul by three Facebook group and we can start this instead?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3268.739

Is that when he said afterwards that other than losing, what was his quote about other than we lost, I still thought we had the best team. I think... He had some crazy... Remember that crazy quote where people were like, what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3290.476

Well, I'll tell you this. I probably gave up on him as somebody who could be part of a possible finals team two years ago after that five-game Denver series. And then last year... clearly there was more there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3305.496

And the fact that Edwards was so high on him and, and really seems invested in building him up and trying to turn him into somebody special and a, and a running mate like that, that, that wasn't nothing. I do think that Nick's traded for him partly because they didn't have a center and they had this window after the bridges trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3323.385

And they had no idea when Robinson was coming back and they had no idea if Randall could play with those two wings. And it was a little bit of a fuck it trade combined with, we know this guy cause he's, Wes was with them in Kentucky. It was a little bit of a roll of the dice. I think it's turned out about as well as you could have guessed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3344.734

For what their options were in September, not knowing if Mitchell Robinson was even going to play 40 games and who else was out there, we just saw Phoenix got completely submarine by the fact that it's hard to find a center, among many other reasons. I think the trade was a success. I still wonder... Is there another level for him or is this it? It feels like this is it. Year 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3368.89

I don't like, do you see him becoming all of a sudden the most imposing guy in the Celtics series? I don't. I think we are where we are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

339.197

And there's specifically that last possession with, what, 20 seconds left. Tatum's diddling around the top. He gets Robinson on him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3404.523

Yeah. So what kind of team is that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3436.064

Can you remember another player since you've been covering the league that people seem to be more out on, but in on at the same time where people he's frustrating, but everybody seems to think he's a good guy. Usually you'll get like, when somebody's polarizing or up and down, or maybe I can't trust this guy in a playoff series, there's some character stuff you'll hear about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3459.661

I don't really hear... Everybody seems to like Towns and be rooting for him, but at the same time, they don't really trust him to come through in a series. I just can't think of other guys like that. I'm racking my brain. It's unusual, right? He occupies this... He was the number one pick in the draft, and... I went, I, we're going to talk about the draft quickly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

348.799

He's diddling on the top. Gets down to seven seconds. It's wide open. All he has to do is go by Mitchell Robinson. I'm pretty sure he can do that. And he's going to be able to get to the rim or kick out. And he doesn't do either. And he settles for this 28-footer. Misses it. And then Brunson should have won the game. And he missed the shot that he makes all the time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3482.439

Like if you did the draft over again, either he or Booker would be the number one pick, right? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3493.849

Unbelievable. So that draft for people who don't remember it. Towns is one. If you're going tiers for the redraft, Towns and Booker, who would you have? Booker or Towns? If you could go back in a time machine and pick one of those two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3515.194

Then the next two picks are Porzingis and Miles Turner. Porzingis went 4th, Turner went 11th. And then if you're thinking next four picks just for what the career success was, Norman Powell, number 46, Bobby Portis, 22, D'Angelo Russell, number two, and Terry Rozier, number 16. So we've just immediately gotten wonkier than wonky.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3537.443

And then after that, guys who played were Oubre at 15, Richardson at 40, Looney at 30, Nance, 27, Lyles, 12, and Campaign, 14. And then there was a Justice Winslow at 10 that I want to talk about. But the bus you mentioned.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3553.475

That's a big one for you. That's the sliding doors of the last 10 years of the Celtics. The bust. Jaleel Okafor, third. Marin Ozone, fifth. Cauley Stein, sixth. Moody, a seventh. Stanley Johnson, eight. Frank Kaminsky, nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3576.784

And have been... Five through 10. I mean, you have six, I would say busts in seven picks. And you also have Danny Ainge frantically offering all his picks because he loves Justice Winslow to Miami at eight to hang up on him. And then Charlotte at nine. And I think it was like three or four picks. I think at least one of the Brooklyn picks was in that. So that's basically Brown or Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3601.548

It's just not on the team. If Michael Jordan says, wait, you're giving me four picks. I guess I don't have to take Frank Kaminsky. Right. Not Stanley Johnson was Detroit, not Miami. And then Miami's at 10 and they're, they're, they're like, fuck you. We're taking justice. Winslow. This is one of the weirdest drafts of the last 20 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3660.002

But when you get Yoko, it should you get Yoko at like number 42 or wherever that was. So, yeah. So Porzingis was fourth and he was the third best guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3669.948

in this draft and he's another one like for his career he's 20 and 8 he's 46 37 83 for the percentages which is fairly close to towns um he's missed 218 games and played 501 last four years he's missed 31 17 25 and 42 and he's hurt again and he turns 30 in august And next year is a $30.7 million expiring.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3694.231

And a lot of people have been talking about how this Celtics team is not going to look the same next year because of the tax.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3703.296

Six-month story, yeah. This is part of the sale, the whole thing. I would say Porzingis would be, if this is the final run for him and he gets traded in the offseason... Um, and he'll be a cult hero in Boston forever. Um, I also think it might be hard to trade him because this first second apron and nobody has cap space. And when people say like, oh yeah, they'll just trade one of those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3727.641

It's like, where nobody has cap space. You're just getting back a salary that then makes as much money as the guy you're trading.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3742.169

Right. But there's still, if the goal is to save luxury tax money, there's no like Chris Paul, his contract expires on June 30th and you can trade it, trade for it and then waive it. I don't think there's a guy like that this year. So they're looking at stuff like John Collins on Utah for Porzingis. Utah wanted to get Porzingis two summers ago and they weren't able to get him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3763.953

Well, that would save the Celtics $4 million, plus all the tax stuff that comes with the $4 million. So that's God only knows. And now you have John Collins instead of Porzingis, and you're not the same team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3777.224

You're looking at what the Lakers want to do, ruining Maxi Kliba's expiring. The Celtics and Lakers can't trade with each other. I'm just saying, this is way harder than I think people realize, not to mention he's been hurt. And I think he's probably going to be on the team. Um, what's when you think of him though, cause we were doing the whole unicorn.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3797.159

That was a whole narrative with him and Giannis and some others in 2017. Is this career slightly better than you thought? Slightly more disappointing than you thought or right around the same?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3899.762

I've never gotten an answer on it. So it seems like the legs were covered, although I don't love the way he's moving. I thought there was that one play when Josh Hart was under the basket around him and Porzingis just misread it and he stumbled in a way that I was like, usually he's not stumbling like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

391.49

Nine good things can happen. One bad thing can happen is you take a step back against the seven footer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3921.226

Yeah, that was weird. Because in the Orlando series, I think it was game two, even though he didn't make a shot for three games. he still really impacted one of the first two games. I think it was game two. And he looked like Porzingis defensively. And it's like, all right, the shot's going to come. This guy's a 40% three-point shooter. The guy yesterday, I guess we'll find out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3940.232

But, you know, it just has this dramatic effect that, Because now Horford has to play more. Now your rotation is shorter. Now you're really relying on Sam Hauser, who, of course, sprains his ankle. But it messes it up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3963.664

Well, there's going to be more Cornette.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

3988.179

No, I don't trust Shireman. Torrey Craig? I mean, played a little, and then we haven't seen him. And I'm not really sure why. Maybe he just didn't crack. We only had five playoff games, six playoff games. But I guess it would be Torrey Craig. It's whoever you don't want the Knicks to just be like, oh, this guy's in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4006.975

Like, Shireman comes in, the Knicks are going to be like, let's just get him in a pick and rolls and get Brunson on him and let's go. Keita? Keita time? Maybe a Keita versus Mitchell Robinson matchup. When Mitchell Robinson's out there, maybe you cater it up. I swear to God this is true.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4065.65

Well, what do you think the Knicks' ultimate goal is in this series? Because I think it would be, can we just get the Celtics to play one-on-one basketball and have as many people as possible playing as many minutes as possible where we're not just getting torched playing one-on-one defense? So if that's the case, then that means Precious would play more, I would think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4130.45

Well, it's weird to me that the Celtics don't look at the metrics of when they walk it up like that, when you can feel the pace go away from the game and how it just seems like it's bad for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4143.296

But he's not on the sidelines going, push it, push it, stop walking it up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4168.55

Poor Ty Lue. How many times do you think he's just been staring out at the ocean or wherever he lives just thinking of, I can't believe James Harden tricked me? I can't believe I bought in. I can't believe I believed. Why didn't I listen to all the people in my life who have coached him or played with him? Why? Why did I trust this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4194.203

Well, you talked about, you always talk about the Doc face. Yeah. In some of the playoff games where it'll cut to Doc and Doc just has that frozen look like, oh God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4211.538

Harden, it's tougher because he's got the beard. It's more of like a hardened demeanor where he's just like, look, man, I'm just, I am not going to shoot. I'm not going to look toward the rim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4236.709

That'd be a good new show. Last take. Just everyone looking at each other. Like, uh-huh. Yeah. Last take. Yep. So Porzingis, a lot less to discuss, but how, how, how long do you think he's, is he playing when he's 35?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4264.344

It's not, the history is not great. Like the, the people like Kareem, uh, you know, are real outliers when you compare them to some of the other people we've had, the Ralph Sampson. I mean, even somebody like Embiid. It's just, it's, you see them in person. It's just a lot of legs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4295.736

You know what I was doing? I was aggregating, aggregation hunting. I was trying to get aggregators in a switch so I could go one-on-one. What was the trade? We were just talking about if the Lakers, obviously they need to find a center, right? There's not a lot of centers. So you could talk yourself into the Quinn Capella type of guy, or you could be like, well, fuck it. LeBron's 41.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

43.936

Coming up, I'm gonna talk to Zach Lowe about playoff basketball. Are the Celtics and OKC in trouble? Next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where last night we put up one of the biggest rewatchables episodes that we've ever done. We did Star Wars, the one from 1977 that they now call Star Wars Chapter Four, A New Hope, or whatever the hell they say. I call it Star Wars.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4318.423

Let's take a swing. Could we talk Philly into, here's a bunch of expirings. And here's a first round pick and maybe a conditional one more first round pick. And we'll take your Embiid problem. And we'll be the ones that as our fingers crossed that he's ever going to play again. And you guys can just get out of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4336.115

You'll draft, you know, you're hopefully have a top five pick if the lottery works out your way. And by the way, the Bruins yesterday in the NHL lottery, Zach, fifth pick supposed to be there in the fifth spot. Worst case scenario, they could move back two spots. Two teams jumped them, finished seventh. It was the Phillies sixer scenario. I thought the Bruins were good. Are they not good anymore?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4359.264

They were bad last year. Yeah. Okay. So they had the, you know, the worst case scenario happened and it just made me think of Philly. Like this is it. Two teams jumping Philly and they dropped to seven and OKC gets that pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

436.803

Well, and the Knicks succeeded because they got the game in the last five minutes, which is where you want to be against the Celtics in a close game because they might get a little three happy. And their five guys looked really good together down the stretch, except for Towns on defense, who just seemed lost for most of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4382.902

Very fun teams, the 93, 94. I would always trade for Peter Kalima just to give them one more wing. Okay. In the NHL 94. Yeah. I'd always try to cheat.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4392.507

Yeah. So you think Embiid has zero trade value? It was just the thought bubble for the Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4436.588

Yeah. But what about the Lakers? I, you know, I, I mean, I, I shouldn't say that so flippantly, uh, Oh, I'm going to say it flippantly. You do that trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4479.844

Well, we had it's an insane group of guys in the lottery. And then there's a couple of teams that have been completely irrelevant forever. Right. And Charlotte or Washington gets flagged. And it's like that nobody's thought about those teams for 100 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4527.615

Ace Bailey is a little unicorny with just how unusual of a prospect he is, where he's like 6'9", 100 pounds, and is just this crazy one-on-one player. I've just started getting the lottery. I'm trying to figure out how Rutgers was an NIT team with two of the top three players in a loaded draft. That gives me the little Ben Simmons...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

453.27

But I thought that was the best Ananobi, certainly against the Celtics game. One of the better games I've seen him play. And the reality is he was the best wing in the game. I mean, I thought he was Tatum and Brown like he was easily the best guy out of those four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4550.28

you know, retro, like, huh, why are we so sure Ben Simmons is this good when LSU didn't make the tournament? How about Markel Fultz? It's another one. What was he like 10 and they went like 12 and 20 when he was there. I mean, I don't know that you have two of those guys and you can't, you can't be like a 500 team. So that, that part makes me nervous. Flag's going to be unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4572.447

Um, the OKC part's the biggest, in a weird way, the biggest part of the lottery though, if they get just the seventh pick with all the other assets they have, and they steal it from Philly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4599.542

He's going to go five spots too late, and he's going to be a good rotation guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4615.871

People are going to talk themselves out of him, and then he's going to be just... He's one of those guys. You're going to put him in NBA games and be like, oh, yeah, this guy belongs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4627.603

Well, the 7'2 kid... Maluach. He's gigantic. I don't know if anyone knows what to make of him as a prospect. Like, you could tell me he could... go in the top, top seven. I wouldn't be like shocked. I didn't, that's the thing. I think when we get closer to the draft, I do think there's going to be some moves, but yeah, they had a bunch of, they had a bunch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4647.041

That's why it was so devastating when they couldn't pull it off. Cause it seemed like they had by far the most talented team. And sometimes that doesn't matter in college basketball. I hope this is rare for you to study draft tape.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4694.104

That's all. I thought you were going to miss the lottery with your sprained MCL. But so you're going to play. I'm good. I'm good. I'm going to gut through it. That was a LeBron joke. He missed the Mech. LeBron missed the Mech alley yesterday because his sprained MCL.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4712.297

You know what the NHL did yesterday? They did the lottery like it wasn't done and then they announced the cards. They just did it live, almost like mid-80s David Stern style. I was wondering if the NBA would ever want to do that. Just make it a longer show. Like show the actual ping pong balls? Yeah, like bring the fucking ping pong balls out. Just do it that way. Why wouldn't they do it that way?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4749.315

I think I would want to see the ping pong balls and the guys reacting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4764.107

Unless it's ML Carr in 1997 with the frozen face smile.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4773.631

I mean, a top seven. What if in the history of the league, because they lost the pick completely and then it went to Detroit who then screwed the pickup regardless. But yeah, that could have been LeBron in Memphis. I don't know what happens to Cleveland at that point. I guess maybe they take Carmelo. Yeah, there's sliding doors all over the place. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4795.006

Your next podcast is going to be Thursday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4802.511

We'll see what happens. Zach Lowe, thanks for joining us. Thanks to everybody who joined in on the YouTube live feed. And thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Zach and Gahal and Eduardo. Thanks to everybody at the Rewatchables crew who put up our three and a half hour Star Wars podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4822.575

Go check that out on the Spotify video feed or on Ringer Movies where you can watch both parts all at once on Ringer. on YouTube, but don't forget Celtic city. We did not have a new episode this week because the series concluded, but now you can binge all of them. So go check out max for Celtic city. I will be back on this podcast on Thursday. Hopefully the Celtics show up on Wednesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4847.333

We will see until Thursday. I don't. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

4884.225

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

592.685

Yeah, Dan Greenberg, he had a post with four photos of layups the Celtics missed, where you just look at it and you're like, especially that Jalen Brown lefty, the holiday layup under the basket. They had a couple of those. Chris Forsberg had the NBA tracking. 56 busts and 63 pointers. were open or better, which means you have at least four plus feet of space, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

619.818

So they shot on wide open threes, they were seven for 24. Usually they're 41% on those. And then on the open threes, they were seven for 32, which was 22%. So Missoula's gonna look at all that stuff and say, we always make those shots, we're fine. The thing the Knicks did to them a few times, especially as it got into nut crunch time, They were scrambling. They were shots late at the shot clock.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

646.794

Shot clock expiration plays. And that was about as frazzled as I've seen the Celtics. From a crunch time thing, I think a big piece of it, we just got to be transparent. Jalen's not the Jalen from last playoffs. He's not as athletic and as kind of run you over as he was last year. The Jalen in the Dallas series last year, It's a different version of him. He's clearly not 100%.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

65.069

I grew up with that movie. Never really loved it, but I dove into it. And I gotta say, You know, I'm in my 50s. Star Wars won me over. It took this long. It was me, Van Lathan, Sean Fantasy, and Chris Ryan. We went for two parts. We went for almost three and a half hours. You can watch it on Ringer Movies. You can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

674.553

And he was, I thought, bad last night. And he couldn't make a three. And I just think he was easily, out of all the wings plus heart, he was the fifth, I think the fifth out of those five guys. And that's almost more alarming to me than Porzingis. Because this is the level he's going to be at with his knee. The Knicks have a chance in the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

704.033

He says he didn't have the same lift, right? A lot of them were short. Yeah. Like it just like kind of, it's like when Kawhi doesn't seem like he's a hundred percent healthy and all of a sudden his lift just drops by a whiff. So that part worries me. And then the Porzingis piece, they've been dealing with this all year. He put 42 games. Yeah. And it's been a question all year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

723.677

Is he going to show up? And what version are we getting? He did not look good other than, I think, one defensive game against Orlando. I did not think he looked good in that Orlando series. And he was awful last night, like as we discussed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Well, we didn't mention Josh Hart yet in the right way because I thought the. Hmm. My battery saver just went on. What's going on? This is a lot of live YouTube drama here. Yeah. Oh, my God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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What's going on here? Josh Hart, as they were coming back. I just thought he was everywhere. And even it said he only had 11 rebounds. It felt like he had his hands on 28 of them. And it just felt like he was always tipping stuff or he was around or he, you know, just was in the mix over and over and over and over again. And I thought he was the Celtics. It was a set. They were 17.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And I thought it was one of the most fun episodes we've ever done. We even, the blind call to Rosillo category worked because he picked up. So we got Rosillo's take on Star Wars as well. So you can check that out. wherever you get your rewatchables podcast coming up right now. Uh, I was going to tape with Zach Lowe about Townsend Porzingis. And then last night the games were so freaking good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And I think they were like seven for 30 from three or something terrible. And it's like, man, if we're up 17 shooting like this, this is going to be a really short series. And then I thought Hart and Ananobi specifically kind of took control of that comeback. And then Brunson did the rest. And we even talk about those three, those threes Brunson made.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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You could hear that, that sound, the crowd makes that sound like, Oh boy. which is reserved for a rare, small collection of players. And once he got into that zone, you could feel it. You could feel like, oh, this is bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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Okay, Ricky, we get it. You love him. You love him. We get it. I like Brutson. He's definitely a hard guy to root against because he's such an overachiever. But when I hear that, I'm just like, Jokic is in the league. We can't just hand somebody as this person is the best person at the end of the game when Jokic is at the level he's at right now. And ironically, OKC was the next game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Celtics-OKC Panic Check, Plus the Towns/Porzingis Careers With Zach Lowe

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And it's like, I'm pretty sure Jokic is just as good in the clutch. And I feel like he's going to make the right decision every time, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Welcome to the Bill Simmons podcast. Before we get to the pod, I want to talk about Kyrie Irving and the Dallas Mavericks and this crazy situation. Kyrie out for the year, tore his ACL, came out today. And Kyrie is, I've had a rollercoaster ride with over the years where didn't really like him on Cleveland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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So this whole- So you have four teams in the top seven, basically, that desperately need a quarterback. Yes. Which is why Kim Ward has to go first. And it's not even going to matter whether he should be the first pick. And usually, what is it? It's 50-50 with a quarterback that high. Those are the guys from the last 25 years. It might even be like 35-65 for him to be good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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They have their first round pick next year. And what we've seen with this injury over the years is it's almost a two-year injury. You lose the guy this year. But even when he comes back, we saw this happen with Jamal Murray in Denver. Either they don't come back the season after or when they come back, they're not the same person. So you almost have to think you lose a year and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Drake may have had Brissette, which I think was a bonus considering he didn't have a coaching staff, but at least he had Jacoby Brissette.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Is there, I was texting with Todd McShay about this this morning. Isn't a likely scenario that quarterbacks go one-two, even if it makes no sense whatsoever? Because nobody's been able to explain to me why the Browns wouldn't take a quarterback. When Deshaun Watson isn't playing again, they're absolutely screwed with the cap. There is no possible way they can acquire anybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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And this is their one chance to actually add somebody. So I don't, what was the, I mean, there's been the Sanders stuff and the stories about the stories and the narratives behind the narratives. We've gone in nine different directions. Oh, we're just getting started. Just wait. Yeah. It's going to get worse and worse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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And it's also, he's, you know, got a famous father who might decide I want to nudge him toward a certain team and is going to know some tricks. Some other families don't, which if, by the way, I think that should happen more often. I think that should happen with Cooper flag in the NBA. Like you have the leverage pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Like we always talk about player empowerment with the NBA and pick your team and try like, It's never with the rookie. We saw it with Eli Manning, where he didn't want to go to San Diego, ended up with the Giants. I'm always amazed that doesn't happen more often. But if Deion is like, I want Sanders on Vegas. That's just how this is going to play out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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It would be pretty hard for the rest of the league to stop that. Anyway, I feel like there's a one-two scenario with the QBs, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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It was like... He had White Lotus season four. I've lost $80 billion.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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They don't have control of their own pick from 27 to 30. And on top of this, They have to watch Luka, who's already rejuvenated. You can see it. When we talk about face of the league, face of the league, like Luka on the most famous basketball franchise we have, all due respect to the Celtics. You can watch the Celtics City documentary. But the Lakers, I think, are the...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Which is why the Giants would have to leapfrog the Browns at two to get Cam Ward, which is why I think Cam Ward is going to be the first pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Are you talking about the Drew Locke game? That's what it's called now, right? The Pats had the Joe Milton game. But Drew Locke was incredible in that game. Because I bet on the Colts, Drew Locke was lights out. I mean, you can make a case like, yo, look at that drew lock tape. Maybe we, maybe we have the solution in house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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I'm going to zag. Let me hear. Son of a famous person. Tough. Seems like he's smart. It seems like the thing that people are worried about with him is the athleticism more than anything. But he's got the toughness and the competitiveness that they like. And I do feel like as we get closer, the teams start talking themselves into the pluses.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Because the minuses aren't like, this guy's kind of a wuss. This guy's not a leader of men. You know, they're more like... Not a diva.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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LeBron showed up, really liked him, didn't like him as much, came to my favorite team, was all in. It couldn't have ended worse. Became probably my least favorite basketball player. Goes to Brooklyn. That goes terrible. Goes to Dallas. You guys are so stupid. And then over the last two years, or last maybe year and a half, I really grew to like him as a basketball player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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the premier franchise in the league. The Celtics are the most successful. The Lakers are in LA. They've had the most stars. Luka's in there now. There's an energy that's completely different at these games. And the Maverick fans who already got kicked in the nuts with this trade in the worst way I think we've ever seen in basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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There's the other piece of that when you think about quarterback prospects, because there's two versions of it, right? There's a quarterback who had the weight of the college on their shoulders. And then there's the guy who was on an awesome team where the program was kind of the star and they were the quarterback of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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And some of the guys that have succeeded, especially recently, you know, Drake May just, he stayed in North Carolina. He was the whole program. He took all the leadership responsibilities and it was, even though the record kind of came and went, but he was whatever. Bo Nix was in the spotlight in real ways in different colleges. And then Jaden Daniels, same thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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And then he has that OSU year where I just wonder sometimes, is it better to, in college, you're really the guy, at least for a year, does that prep you in a certain way to, whereas you look at like a Trubisky. Like I would study, if I was a team. Hey, Anthony Richardson. Anthony Richardson has 14 starts. Have somebody study like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Like the ones that didn't work and like, what are the common denominators? And one of them is like not enough starts. Like that was a Trey Lance thing too. How big was the spotlight? How much pressure were they under on this limited level? And how did that go to the, how is that going to transfer? Sanders had like a giant spotlight on him for three years there, which I think is a positive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Now they have to watch this guy blossom as their team already just fell apart. And You know, I tweeted this earlier today and I really mean it. I went to those three 2011 finals games in Dallas when they came back and they beat Miami. They actually lost the first game, which was Dwayne Wade, I think the best game I've ever seen him play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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It's going into a new situation, having to meet a bunch of people. Yeah. Um, I know we're a little bit all over the place, but like, can we go back to the experience though for a second? Cause yeah, I think this is actually the case for Darnold who I think is now an underrated asset. He had 27 games at USC, right? Where he started. Yep.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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And then if you go in as a pro, he started 73 games over the last eight years. He's at a hundred career starts now and look great until those last two weeks. Is that a Minnesota offensive line issue? Was it a scheming issue? Was it just that he played two great teams? Like, I feel as we get closer to free agency, there's going to be teams tilting it and going glass half full.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Because if you can get him for less than the Baker. What's the number? Well, let's say you can get him for 15 to 20. Let's say you can get him to. No, 15 to 20. Yes. The question is, if you can do that, like 30 to 40. But you're telling me the Raiders wouldn't want to spend 20 million a year on Sam Darnold if they couldn't get the thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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That would be Brady just being like, this guy doesn't have it. I'm out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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That was Darnold. I mean, if it's Aaron Rodgers versus Darnold, come on. Kyle's going to turn the TikTok camera on because I have a very important Tom Brady point. Okay, let's go. Tom Brady. I love Tom Brady. Brought me six Super Bowls. One of my favorite athletes of all time. This is a dangerous thing where you have him...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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running a football team, thinking he knows what's best with quarterback because he was a great quarterback because all of the evidence with the great players we've ever had, name the sport, mostly they're not good at this. They think they're seeing things that other people don't see, and it's not actually rational.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Like Magic Johnson, Lonzo Ball got hurt, obviously, but Magic Johnson took Lonzo Ball over Jason Tatum, right? You have like Wayne Gretzky ran a hockey team. How did that go? I'm trying to think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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But Michael Jordan ran the Charlotte Hornets slash Bobcats for the big Sean May guy. Couldn't have been worse. Like steered them toward Kwame Brown. The wizard steered them toward Kwame Brown over Pau Gasol and those guys because he liked what he saw from Kwame Brown in a workout. Like, I don't know if I trust the greatest players ever on stuff like this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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And then they come back, they win game four, they win game five. And a big reason they won those games was their crowd was incredible. I don't know where they rank in the best basketball fan bases, but for me, they're in the top seven. And, you know, I used to love the Warriors fan base even before the Curry stuff happened. There's the Knicks, no matter how bad the teams are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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So Jerry West is a positive. There's some that wouldn't. I'm just saying it's not a slam dunk, but I think part of the problem is if you and I are in that room with Tom Brady, And we're like, yo, man, we think Darnold. He might dismiss him right away. And Brady's like, I'm out. I watched that game. He doesn't have it. I'm out. Are we going to argue with Tom Brady? Yeah. So it's just you now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Now it's like this one voice that just sees what he wants to see. I'm fascinated.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Could there be some new owner syndrome with this? Yes. Where they're like, yeah, let me make a splash. Got to get somebody really good. Got to get Chip Kelly's offense. Yeah. Got to find the right person. Nice, mobile, whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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If you're the Seahawks... And you can get a high second round pick for Gino Smith and then spend 20 million a year on Sam Darnold for three years and just invest in your offensive line and be like, if we can actually block for this guy with the guys we have, we can actually do this. I would do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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You might be doing TV for him on network TBD in about six months. Don't laugh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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If Jared Siddham makes more money than Sam Darnold, what are we doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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At this point, go take a look at Joe Milton's Week 18 game tape and talk yourself into that if we're going down to Jared Siddham. Don't laugh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Like he was, he was really good in that last game. Let's take a break. I got lots more to cover with you. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's winter or it's the tail end of winter. You can now get almost anything you need for the coldest stretch of the year delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a snow plow delivered. You can get snow peas delivered.

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Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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If you went to a game and they liked the team, it was just a great place to see a game. You can feel the love. And I really feel like the Dallas fans, everything they had built from 1980 on, like had gotten to that level. They really loved this team. They appreciated Dirk. Um, they really wanted him to come through.

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Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Snow angel? No. Angel hair pasta, sure. Sunshine, that's a no. A bottle of wine, that's a yes. Yes, Uber Eats can get you that along with a side of garlic bread and creme brulee to top all of it off. Little angel hair pasta, bottle of wine. Sounds great. Get almost, almost anything for your winter delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets.

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Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. All right, so quick tangent that I'm going to bring back to the NFL. In the NBA, the bleakest situations right now are the Suns and the Sixers and now the Mavericks who made this catastrophic Luka trade and then Kyrie's out for the year. And it's just, you just look at those and you go, wow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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this three, four year window here, pretty bleak. Who, in your opinion, like, especially like being around everybody last week, who are the bleak franchises other than the Browns? We're just going to grandfather them in. The Browns have to be number one bleak, but who else is in that conversation?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Would you say that's the gold standard of bleak right now? It has to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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And then in those, those three games, especially the last two, and they started to shift the narrative on Dirk and you could just really feel the love and, and the pure euphoria. Um, and then Luca shows up, becomes their guy and they're like, we're in, we have 20 air season tickets for this dude. We'll buy his jerseys. We love this guy. This is our guy. We'll have some ups and downs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Thanks. Justin Fields. So you'd have Jets, who else? Because I would say at least with the Jets, there's a lot of talent there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Well, they're already letting DJ Reed go, which I thought was kind of shocking. He was good last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Wait, hold on. I was going to end with the Pats. So Jets bleak, Browns bleak. Would you throw the Saints in there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Wait, when you say he's in the same boat as Kirk Cousins, are you talking about the Titanic? What boat is that? Is that boat still floating?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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What happened with the Raiders last year is... the point for that, you just don't want to have a season where you're the Raiders and you realize like by the third preseason game, like, wow, our quarterback suck. This is going to be terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Would you go bleak for the Cowboys? Semi bleak? No. Medium bleak?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Right. Well, the off season, especially this part. And when we had an afraid to see draft is all about how do I convince my fan base to, to be potentially excited about something and the Cowboys can be like, Hey, Dak's healthy. We got Parsons. We have three of the best players in the league. Yeah. We're the Cowboys. What's the case for the Saints?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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We have no cap space and Derek Carr's coming back. And we hired the ninth coach who got hired. And we're in the NFC South. Never know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Maybe he won't always be in shape, but this guy's special and we're going to win the title with him. And it's going to be amazing. And the trade pulled that away. They're still pissed about it. Now you have this. And this situation is not so bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Do you feel like it's less bleak in Jacksonville? Oh, dude. It's better. Okay, give me stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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We were joking after it happened that the real reason the family that owns the team did this is because they wanted to sabotage basketball in Dallas and move it to Vegas. uh, move the team to Vegas because the Dallas team, the Dallas fans would hate them so much that you'd almost have to move. It's almost like there's a precedent of this, like George Shin and Charlotte.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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You should do something where you come into the ring and you get hit with a chair.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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He's probably trying to book Ian Rappaport and Schultz to have some sort of Starbucks match. He would love that. They can whip lattes at each other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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I'm going to give you a possible bleak candidate and you're going to be upset. Why are we so negative? Let's be positive. I'm going positive. One second. Okay. Are the dolphins in the bleak zone? Tyreek probably pushing for the trade. McDaniel, even though he got an extension, I'm sure he's definitely on first coast fired watch, I would think. Tua, who knows?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Classic salary cap team where they had to pay these guys and now it's all fucked up. And they're in a division with the Bills. The Pats are going to be better. The Jets won't be better. But I wonder if they're on bleak watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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I have real concerns about McDaniel. I have real concerns about Tua. And I have real concerns about we're going to wake up three days from now and Tyreek Hill's like, I want to be a Charger. Let's make that happen, guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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It would be the Chiefs? Yeah. Is that even possible? The Chiefs just have an unlimited salary cap. I don't know how they do it. It's like, hey, we're going to franchise tag our left guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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He, his name became so bad in Charlotte that he actually moved the team to New Orleans. It's obviously ridiculous. It would never happen. But that, but the Kyrie injury on, on, on top of everything else is the first time where I started thinking to myself,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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An incredibly disappointing season by his standards last year. The Super Bowl was a disaster. So I hope he's motivated. The anti-bleak watch, the you-go-to-combine... And these teams are like, it's like the sky has opened. It's after it's rained for a week straight. And all of a sudden it's the first sunny day and everybody's like, I want to go outside. We don't have to talk about the Pats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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I talk about them too much. We can do that at the very end. But who else is in that? Washington. The skies have opened. Washington.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Ask me how great Jada Daniels is. I'd love to talk about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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Can I give you my, can I give you my 30 second Debo take as an intermission? Mm-hmm. San Francisco being like, yeah, we're good. Take them. It reminded me of the Celtics with Marcus Smart. And this is where I bring the Celtics into a football podcast. Fine. Like they knew something. Well, it was in watching him. And this was the case Priscilla and I made on the podcast after that trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

2998.33

It was like, that dude's body's been through a lot. We watched him for the last nine years. He took a million charges. He was on the floor all the time. And I think they're getting out a year too early instead of a year too late with his body. So what happens? He goes to Memphis, he breaks down and he has not been healthy ever since.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

300.14

Holy shit, like that's actually how bad this might get where they might have to be like, hey, can we have the Vegas expansion team instead and we'll just sell Dallas and maybe or make Dallas the expansion team or we'll move operations to Vegas and you can make Dallas the expansion team and call it the Mavericks and keep it the history. That's how bad this is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3018.562

Yeah, he's like a veteran on Washington. So I look at Debo and like you, I watch football every week. Debo took a fucking ton of hits. The way they used him, he was like a crash test dummy. And I just wonder if they were like, I think we took this as far as we can go. If it starts to dip, it could be on somebody else's team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3061.763

It was like you on TV last year. That was the same thing. I just felt like a giant chip on your shoulder.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3074.583

Send me anywhere. Contract year. Let's go. So the Washington thing, the vibes are unbelievable. Unbelievable. Great coach, great GM, franchise QB, most beloved guy in Washington, even more than Ovechkin. House is like, can't even come up with somebody on par with him at this point. You have to go back to like the Gibbs era. Who else is the skies aparted? Give me another team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3190.717

So there's good, like high second round running back. candidates for that. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

321.197

And I'm really feeling for the Mavs today because the combo of that trade, losing Davis in his first game and then losing Kyrie for a year and a half probably. I honestly can't think of another NBA situation like this where a fan base has taken in the teeth like this. So shout out to them. I think it's a sad basketball day because Kyrie was playing great. I loved watching him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3210.594

And also they become me and nephew Kyle. And every time we're together, Kyle's like Kyle's waiting for Abdul Carter to fall to four because of some amorphous foot thing. And then he's buying the Jersey like that day. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3225.906

And the free agents- It's funny how that works when you have a good quarterback and a good coach. No doubt. It's funny how that shifts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3248.221

No, but he had the short arms. I was on multiple short arm threads. That's okay. He couldn't even get to 33 inches with his reach. How's he going to hold back Michael Parsons with those short arms?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3264.227

I'm on McShay says there's three elite guys in the draft. And that was how I was feeling anyway, knowing nothing, but doing all the prep. And it just feels like, but the thing is with defensive tackle, that's the easiest position to get in free agency. There's a million of them. True. If you're trying to put together a team of assets, which is what they need to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3282.588

That's probably not where you go, but I want an, I want an all pro in this draft. You have to get an all pro in this draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3344.098

But if you're- No, that's a trade back. That could be your guy. You flip picks with the Jets or the Saints or whoever, or even Vegas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3360.047

The only thing that worries me with TMAC is their wide receiver class is so bad that when somebody is the best looking person at a party of ugly people, they look fucking so handsome or beautiful.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3395.044

But that's what worries me. But if they want him, I think he's in the 8 to 12 range. I don't think they can't take. Well, the team that I could see taking him is Jacksonville at five because it seems like it's their decades mission to just keep spending capital on wide receivers to try to talk themselves into Trevor Lawrence. The Patriots can't block.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3415.899

I'm just going to say that they can't take Will Campbell at four because we don't know if he's a left tackle or guard. But I think I think that moving back. into the six to 10 range and taking a receiver tackle. It's hard to argue with, but you'd have to have a team wanting to move up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3445.07

I can see Carter for the Pats, though. Oh, dude. I think if there's a scenario where people get worried about, well, what's going on with this foot or any of that shit, and two quarterbacks go in the top three and Hunter goes at, like... It's Carter. That would be the dream. It's Carter. That's Willie McGinnis, the 96, although 95 or 94 or whenever he got him all over again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

346.069

this really feels like this kills the Mavericks now for the rest of the decade. So wanted to mention at the top, let's get to the rest of the podcast. This episode is brought to you by Nissan. If you're planning on an adventurous 2025, you're going to need a car that can keep up with you and conquer anything. in your path.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3469.149

And it was like, Hey, this guy is like going to be our, this guy is going to go chase the quarterback now for the next 10 years for you guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3503.496

At the combine, we did bleak, we did happy. Who's the, what the fuck is that team doing team? That people were just kind of gossiping about. Like they were like, you know, the friend in the, the friend in the neighborhood who were like, what's going on in that house? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3567.987

So we always talk about how you can basically afford three giant guys in the NFL, the way the cap is. And if you can pull off four, well, you got to count Burrow though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3578.393

So if you're doing Burrow with the two receivers, that's an insane use of Kappa. It's insane. They just waived Alex Kappa too. They waived Alex Kappa, which was unexpected. Although he didn't have a great year, but they're losing guys already.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3596.358

You can't build a team around a quarterback and two receivers and expect that's going to work.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3601.24

And they're cheap. They're like the Pats. They're cheap. I mean, Vrabels try to change the Pats, but Bengals are cheap. Pats are cheap. So on top of, at least the Chiefs are like spending when they try to do this gymnastics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

363.887

The Nissan Armada Pro 4X is that car with a twin turbo V6 engine ready to propel your adventures up to 8,500 pounds of towing capacity to haul all your favorite toys and space for eight passengers. This unshakable fortress will chew up and spit out anything you throw at it. Learn more at the all new 2025 Nissan Armada at nissanusa.com. Towing capacity varies by configuration.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3642.976

Burrow would be a dick. Don't you think? Like if it gets to the point here, He will put, he will be like an NBA star putting pressure on them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3688.396

So yeah, The Higgins-Chase, when they play together with Burrow, the numbers are undeniable. They're undeniable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3702.366

Right. But if you're looking at Higgins and Sheil had him as his number two free agent, he had Darnold number one only because there's no quarterbacks. But the Higgins thing would be, well, what about the games without Chase?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3716.283

And you look at those, what happens when the defense is targeted against him versus I think T Higgins is amazing. I think that would be my dream Pats guy. I wouldn't give up the first pick for him, obviously, but the second pick, the second rounder I would do in a heartbeat.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3772.036

If you take a guy in the top 10, he's got to be your quarterback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3799.439

I'm like, by the way, I had COVID those last two games. Sorry. Sorry, guys. I can't believe you guys didn't get sick. Why'd you make me play? Should it make me nervous that the Pats are probably going to spend on Ronnie Stanley? Because I still don't understand why the Ravens would let Ronnie Stanley go as their left tackle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3832.637

They said they didn't like Josh Sweat. I think Vaughn is a real possibility, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3851.91

Well, the move is what the Commanders did last year. Getting those guys that weren't the A-list guys, but they were like, it's almost like the White Lotus cast strategy. No doubt. It's like, we're going to get Carrie Coon. Bring me Carrie Coon. Yeah, Carrie Coon's a really good actress. Washington just went out and got like nine Carrie Coons.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3877.746

Yeah, Austin Eckler is Greg Gary, the evil guy. I mean, that guy's been in all three seasons.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3889.533

He has that and he was the drug dealer in 90210. He's got one of the great IMDbs of all time. Yeah, he got... He got Dylan hooked on drugs. Khalil Mack. What are the Chargers doing? Bosa and Mack?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

39.96

I liked how he talked about everything, how he took some responsibility. It was like everything I wanted from an athlete. I really liked watching him and I grew to respect and like him as a player. And they make this Luka trade. It is the least popular, most shocking, most indefensible trade in the history of the league. It's getting worse by the day. The fans are just so angry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3922.162

Last question. Houston is the most interesting offseason team to me because I don't know how far away they are from being impactful. I thought they were in the mix last year, especially if you look back at how the season went, how they were able to play against the Chiefs defensively. What they were missing feels easy to add. I like their coaching staff. I like their division.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

393.188

See Nissan Towing Guide and Owner's Manual for additional information. Always secure cargo. I hope you stayed because I have football and the Oscars and Gene Hackman coming up next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Rocky. That's right. The original Rocky. The Oscar-winning Rocky.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

3946.04

They're in a great division. That could easily be like a 14-3 team next year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4004.55

In retrospect, that was the red flag game for the Super Bowl, looking back, as I still continue to kick myself for not just having the balls take fillers. You've mentioned this on quite a few pods. That Houston game was a bad sign for the Chiefs. They hung around like they did with the, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4039.209

We have to go. I have to go talk to Wesley Morris about the Oscars.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4047.56

Great move. Onora's good. You should see Onora. Is it good? Yeah. Schrags, we'll talk to you before the draft. Great to see you as always. You're the man, Bill. Thank you. My old longtime friend, Wesley Morris, is here. We used to work together at Grantland. He's at the New York Times. Did not talk to him right before the Oscars, although we talked a couple months ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4064.218

We were waiting until after the Oscars, which was a very strange Oscars and was dominated by a movie called Enora. What you liked. I did like Enora. Chalamet did not win. Demi Moore did not win. I'm going to start here. We haven't talked. We've only texted a little bit. I was so happy. Mikey Madison won. I thought that was the best performance of any movie I saw.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4088.776

And I did not see the brutalist yet. Um, but I thought she was awesome. And this whole, sometimes this will happen in sports too, where they'll just decide, well, to be more, she's been waiting forever. She's got to win. And that was an important movie. And I was just like, what the fuck? Like Mac, Mikey Madison should win. Now, do you agree or disagree with that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

412.947

The movie that made Sly Stallone an A-plus list superstar that created the template for all sports movies. That was me and Chris Ryan and Van Lathan. You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify. You can also watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. I also, another podcast this week, we did the episode three recap of The White Lotus. You can find that on the Prestige TV podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4167.447

She was really good in that. I can't believe she didn't get nominated, actually.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4287.458

I thought it was a very strange movie year. I didn't feel like a lot of stuff jumped out. And I, you know, we always talk about how it's a little bit like sports where you look back years later and like, Oh, what was that year? Oh, that was the year Nora won all this stuff. Um, I just thought I didn't know her really at all other than TV stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4306.497

And, um, you know, she was once upon a time in Hollywood working actress. She was like the 11th person. And once upon a time in Hollywood, um, and I just felt like I liked those movies sometimes where it's just like, Oh, this person's a star. I'm watching her become a star during the movie. I thought it was a pretty, pretty out there performance. It's a crazy movie. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4328.626

that I think has some flaws, which we talked about in the past. But I just thought it was a really memorable performance. But I also felt that way about Nicole Kidman. If she had won in that category over her, I still wouldn't have agreed, but I would have understood it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

439.313

You can find all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And... You can watch us. I hope you're watching us as a video podcast. So we launched the first episode of Celtic City yesterday on HBO. First of nine episodes. You can also watch it on Max. Please check it out. The feedback's been awesome. Thanks to everybody who reached out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4539.207

You're bringing in your 40 plus year history with her movies and that became part of the performance for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4561.206

Um, I went back to, to be more in general hospital cause I was watching general hospital in the early eighties. That's where she broke in. Yep. Uh, was with her through the Brad pack years. Uh, It was amazing to watch her. It felt like she fizzled out and then became a big star. I think she was really under, like we did a disclosure for rewatchable. She's just great in that movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4580.733

She's just a 10 out of 10 smoking hot, incredibly confident. But I swear to God, I think the best scene of her entire career, you're going to laugh. And this is one of my, one of my takes that I'll probably take shit for it. I don't really care. You're you, you're used to it. Go on. When, When Rob Lowe breaks up with her in about last night. Oh. And he says he doesn't love her anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4605.849

I honestly think that's the best acting moment of her career. And apparently he ad-libbed it and it wasn't in there, but the way she reacts to it, you could just see it go through her entire body. I think she's had some really great acting moments over the years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

462.082

You know, this is if you care about basketball, you care about sports history. My hope with this stuff is you could potentially get sucked in if something is just really well done. And I think our thing is really well done. And I think the early feedback is that people are like, wow, I learned a lot. This is fucking awesome to watch. When's the next one? So it's once a week. Check it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4624.704

Like G.I. Jane's another one. Disclosures like that. I think she's good in Ghost. I think in St. Elmo's Fire, she has a couple moments where you're like, I would run through fiery hell to get this girl to like me, right? And she's a one-on-one where I don't even know... There's a little Kathleen Turner in there just because of her voice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4643.721

But she was drop dead beautiful in the 80s and then kind of transformed over the 90s. So we've been there the whole time with her. But part of what I thought was interesting about this movie, because you're right, it's a career retrospective of her. I actually feel like her career should have been better. I think I think she could have made this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4663.018

I think she could have made better movie choices when she had her peak. Like you think about even like making a movie like Strip Cheese. That was like a paycheck movie. That's like what we get mad at some actors doing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4675.904

That's like I want to work with my husband. That movie sucks. I don't like that movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4696.544

She became the biggest contract. That was the biggest salary anyone made in Hollywood.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4714.736

She's good in Indecent Proposal. I'm not arguing the success. I just wish there were a couple of awesome movies in there where she was like going for an Oscar. And I don't think that was even on the radar for her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4727.148

Like think about the Scarlet letter. So that's where we disagree. I think, I think she had it in her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4736.36

What if she was the prostitute and leaving Las Vegas instead of Elizabeth Shue? Probably too old. No, she's too... I mean, too old when they made that movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4796.983

Part of the problem is the mid nineties did not have a lot of great female parts. If you go back, even you look at, you go back and look at the Oscars during some of those stretches, like, could she have been Sharon Stellan's part in casino? No, you don't think so. Why?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4826.206

Could which she really could have been too famous for. But she could have she could have been one of the disclosure was basically her basic instinct. Could she have been Annette Bening in American Beauty?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4837.743

No. So you think she's more limited than I do? I think I feel like there was more there. She also got married to Bruce Willis. They became a giant celebrity couple and they had three kids. So that that that probably hurt the output of movies she was making at some point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

484.307

Celtic City on HBO. and Max. Coming up on this podcast, I'm going to talk to our old friend Peter Schrager, what he found out at the Combine, is there draft stuff, free agent stuff, who has the bleakest situation in the league, we're hitting all that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4876.62

She stuck with Mr. Holland even after he almost ran away with a 17 year old. Still stayed there with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4895.039

Tubi just is always trying to get me to rewatch it. I'm like, no, Tubi. No, not biting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4901.658

You did? Tubi sucked you in? Tubi was like, just throwing the fishing rod at you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

497.076

And then Wesley Morris comes on to review the Oscars, to talk about the movie year we just had, and really to talk about Gene Hackman, because we had to get in that as well. Though we did a lot of Demi Morris stuff too, and then he's going to give us his favorite TV show at the end. It's all next, first our friends from ProJab. All right, taping this on a Tuesday morning, Pacific time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

4984.755

Oh, they had their accents. Bruce Willis had a crazy facial hair thing going. It's like, come on, Bruce Willis. So what was your favorite Demi Moore performance? before this movie? What was your number one? Because my favorites, I loved her in About Last Night, which I, as you know, I think is the first modern rom-com. But I thought she was great in that. I thought she was great in Disclosure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5017.983

I don't like that. If you're just making a random movie and you're just showing up for 11 days of shooting, it's a good one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5050.742

Well, it taught us what happens when you go to hell. Goblins come out of the street and they pull you down. They shadow goblins and that's it. You're fucking in hell from that point on. They have the code.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5150.96

Holy shit. And then the next year was loaded too. And then in the mid nineties, uh, Nothing will top her turning on the lights in About Last Night because I think we've been in the dark long enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5163.065

That movie has some groaner lines. You got to watch it. She's really great in it, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5168.407

Haven't seen it in a while. It's really, really, really an enjoyable romp. How'd you feel about the best actor?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5176.565

the winner or the the nominees just how it played out i so here's my sports angle on chalamet great for a great career move not to win oh yeah great career move he's way better way better now next movie this happened to leo too this is oh when's he gonna win you want to get into that when's he gonna win zone because now it just helps you with the celebrity of being an actor

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5215.65

Like you have to be in The Revenant. He'll have to crawl out of a dead bear. Oh, my God. I have to get the shit kicked out of him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5231.573

Uh, here's the thing. Can I, can I throw this theory at you? Okay. I think what happened with this Oscars run and with Chalamet in general, we always, I mean, how many pods did Sean do about who's the next big star? We've done pods about who's the next big actor in Hollywood? Are we ever going to have one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5252.898

Well, is this ever going to happen again? Does the way the system, the way it's structured now... Does it just make it impossible because we just throw like some DC comics or Marvel suit on them after they become famous? I think what happened with him, SNL really helped. Going on college game day, the way he navigates, you could feel it in the Oscars telecast too. He was kind of in that Leo spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5278.769

They kept going to him. They kept showing him. Oh, people were mentioning him. And it just felt like it was kind of his Leo early 2000s moment. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5310.2

I think he has about as high of an approval rating of an actor that we've seen in a long time. I think really since Leo, when Leo was in that aviator stage, And we were like, you know what, man, this guy is, he's handsome. Everybody likes him. He's a really good actor and he stands for the right things. He wants to work with good directors. He wants to challenge himself.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5330.866

I know, I know Chalamet's SAG speech didn't go over fantastic when he was talking about how he wanted to be one of the greats, but I loved it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5356.311

It was authentic, which is all we want from athletes, celebrities, whoever. Just be just fucking say what you want. Be yourself. Be yourself. Don't try to be some manufactured. I think people are going to like this version of me and this will help me if I appear this way. Like, I don't think he's like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

537.891

Peter Schrager's here. Haven't talked to him in a while. He was just at the Combine. A lot of people are saying he was the one that broke up the Starbucks fight. I don't think you got a lot of credit for that. You were like third man in, just trying to keep peace at an Indianapolis Starbucks. Combine, crazy place. You love it. I love it. Is that your favorite week of the year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5478.847

I gotta say, I think the way Leo handled his career was brilliant. No notes. I mean, just like, he studied some of the old greats. I don't need to do a shitload of interviews. There needs to still be a little mystery about me. And he kept the mystery. For better and worse. Because that also allows people to... You know, he's doing this. He's at this party. He is a pussy wrangler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5502.343

Like, that's an actual phrase used with Leo. But yeah, that guy's his pussy wrangler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5533.962

I like it. Who else? I mean, there's been De Niro for a while. He had a real mystery and then something snapped in the 90s. And we went the other way with it. What do you mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5548.481

Well, he just started doing a ton of movies. He started going on SNL. Part of De Niro, like De Niro is this mythical figure. It's like, who is this guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5558.449

But does he seem any more known to you? No, he's actually ironically a terrible interviewer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5568.638

So wait, because I have a couple other things I want to hit with you. So your best actor was who?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5578.304

You can know somebody who didn't get nominated. Yeah. Who is the best male performance for you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5811.422

Well, yeah, that's true. A lot of hotel room carpets. And I want to talk about Hackman and I want to talk quickly about White Lotus. So any other Oscar thoughts? Because we're going to take a break.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5853.154

I mean, we can do this now. Okay. I just think we've been talking about the Oscars for a while. I think sometimes things morph over time culturally. You know, like when we were talking about All-Star Weekend a couple weeks ago on the podcast, I think it was, maybe it was Vanner. I can't remember. I'm sorry. I can't remember who said it, but about whether it just had a cultural expiration date.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5878.266

And yeah, things can just shift and yeah, things can shift and change. I think about people used to care about regular season baseball and now they just care about their own teams. Like as you get older, you just see like things sometimes run their course. And with the Oscars, Whether people care about who wins the way they did in 1982, I just don't know if they do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5903.385

Especially the younger generation. The younger generation was probably like, did Chalamet win? My kids, I have a 17-year-old, 19-year-old who are pretty sports culture in the mix, at least a little bit because of me. They didn't care about the Oscars. But when we were kids, I'm older than you, but both of our generations, like we really cared who won.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5930.64

But part of it is like the NBA issue, right? When they talk about face of the league and my whole case is like, when somebody really matters, we won't have this conversation because we'll know that person mattered. Like if there's another Titanic, there's another big ass movie or there's another big ass star with an awesome performance, people are going to care if that person or that movie wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5951.814

This year didn't have a movie like that. And it's always going to suffer when that's the case.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

5998.633

So we were making less movies. There was no confusion between, is this something I watch at home on my TV or do I go to the theater to see it? We had way less TV competition with the high-end stuff. We had all the best actors were just doing movies. And now it's like you might see a really great actor just do a TV show instead.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6017.926

So it just feels like it's splintered in a whole bunch of different ways. I still care. I still care about the history and how current stuff relates to it. But I think I'm like an anomaly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6062.833

Conclave supporter. Okay. You don't like it? I thought the twist was stupid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6076.496

I was more interested in... Who did you want to win? I just like being in the world as they try to figure it out and undermine each other. It was just a classic old school movie. I didn't feel like it needed a twist.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

62.928

They are like scorn lovers multiplied by 100. They raised the season ticket prices this week. Everybody goes nuts again. This is the angriest fan base that we've had in a while. And here's Kyrie, who's, by the way, they're putting crazy minutes on him. He's in the 2010 draft. or 2011 draft. He's been in the league for a while. He's a point guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6235.629

We did Rocky for the rewatchables that went up last night. And Rocky won Best Picture.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6243.933

We did three and four. Rocky is now a prequel for Rocky III. That was part of my case for not doing it. Rocky III is the best movie of the 80s. I agree. I mean, sort of. Rocky wins. All the president's men, network and taxi driver don't win. And then you go to the best actor. And it's just you're just looking at it like, oh, my God. And granted, it was almost 50 years ago. Like, oh, my God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

625.442

Yeah, so it was Jordan Schultz and Ian Rappaport, two NFL insiders, for lack of a better word. And it would have been funnier if it was because Rappaport made some sort of crack about, your dad cost Seattle the Sonics. And that was like, it was like way more deep seated, but it just seemed like some insider kerfuffle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6284.747

Yeah, 12 Years a Slave, Captain Phillips, Dallas Buyers Club, Gravity, Her, Nebraska, The Wolf of Wall Street.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6303.786

Right. Let's take a quick break. I want to talk about Hackman. Okay. Gene Hackman died earlier this week and he was old. It wasn't like a big surprise. Hopefully the details of how he died aren't too awful, but I have a feeling they might not be great. But he was somebody that had this awesome, awesome, awesome career forever. And then just walked away and didn't, we never kind of saw him again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6332.61

He almost did the Johnny Carson going to Malibu and I'm out. That's it. I'm done. Um, there was nobody really like him that I can think of. It's like a, he's a true one-on-one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6344.219

And, you know, even like we, in the rewatchables, we've done, I think, I think we did like eight Hackman movies, something like that, where, and you would never think like he would be one of the more rewatchable actors, but he just over and over again, we're popping the stuff. And what was interesting was,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6359.444

watching as his career evolved was how the other actors would talk about what it was like to kind of be in a movie with them and it was like almost like you're going against them and it's I was trying to think of like how many actors are discussed that way where it's like I'm with Hackman gotta raise my game today I gotta raise my game this week like he reached that part of it too there was just nobody like him but you could go way back like

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6381.371

Downhill Racer, which I think Fantasy and I are going to do on Rewatchables at some point. It's an awesome movie. It's probably the first great modern sports movie, even though it's not totally modern, but he's even great in that. And that was, what, 1969? So there wasn't a career quite like this. Will we ever have another Gene Hackman?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6422.048

Yeah. I'll take it. You're tapping into horny hacks already? Yeah. That horny side? Yeah, we talk about that on the Rewatchable sometimes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

644.627

The big thing I'm looking at, and there's already been some buzz about the Giants trading up I don't know. Do you feel like it was true that the Giants could have had Stafford and they had the draft pick compensation? Rich Eisen reported that yesterday. Do we feel like that is 100% accurate that the Rams were just ready to trade Stafford to the Giants or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6469.173

Um, well, but the other piece of that was it somehow allowed him to play all these different parts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6475.96

That he could be like, he could be a basketball coach. He could be in a buddy cop movie. He could be the bad guy in a buddy cop movie. He could be somebody that's, you know, running a submarine. He could be somebody who's the president.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6494.478

Yeah. He could be somebody who's like trying to figure out the heist and he's in charge of the heist. Or he could be the person who is like working on the heist. He could be the sports movie coach. Like he could do literally anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6578.428

Him and Jack Cates in 48 Hours are my favorite cop characters that are also completely indefensible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6648.388

No Way Out was like that. That was another one where he's just kind of sleazy, right? But sleazy, powerful, and you could just kind of see it. The other thing with him that I thought was cool, you could just throw him in other great parts and he makes sense. You could put him in The Godfather. He's just, just be Tom Hagen. You're going to be Tom Hagen instead of Duvall.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6682.586

Could he have... Nicholson's all-time incredible in Chinatown, but could the movie have survived if it was Gene Hackman in Chinatown? Probably. It still would have worked. It would have been fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6694.695

Yeah. That's the thing. And that's why I think he's so unique because it's almost like a basketball player that could... could play like a bunch of different positions and guard a different bunch of it. And it's just like, oh, when we have this guy, we basically can do anything we want.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6718.298

How about, are you a heartbreakers person? Oh. Sigourney Waver and Jennifer Love Hewitt. Horny Hacks is out in full bloom.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6739.172

That's how I got to know him, by the way. That was my first Gene Hackman movie. That was my first Gene Hackman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6762.176

Right. Like, could he have done Liam Neeson and taken? I think he could have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6776.688

So he never did like Tommy Lee Jones in Blown Away just as a crazy Irish terrorist blowing up shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6794.288

No, because I would never think he was, I would never think he would not be in control when I see Gene Hackman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6826.613

No, you're right. I totally get what you mean. But what the other part is, he didn't bring...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6831.767

Gene Hackman the famous celebrity person into the role that kind of baggage that some other like I would see Dustin Hoffman or Nicholson and you're always thinking it's Nicholson you're always thinking it's Dustin Hoffman this is a good distinction too Hackman could kind of blend into the different parts and where it's like oh I love Gene Hackman but then you'd kind of like Enemy of the State's a good example he's Gene Hackman

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6854.125

But you're watching. He just kind of blends in and out. Now, all of a sudden, he's this weird guy. I don't know what he's up to. And is he going to help Will Smith or not? You kind of just forget he's Gene Hackman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6866.651

Oh, yeah. I mean, just everybody talks about it after like, whoa. Yeah, that was I went to grad school when I did acting with Gene Hackman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6879.261

Well, I think it's professionalism. Just going onto the set, knowing exactly who you are, like real confidence, a little bit of a charisma. You're not going to back down anybody. I think he had some size to him too, which I think is unusual for Hollywood.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6974.733

Your crazy point is good because I wouldn't have wanted to see Gene Hackman in The Shining.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

6988.877

What's interesting is he could play the president. He could have played the president's conniving chief of staff. he could have played, he basically could have played every part in the white house, could have played the vice president who doesn't like the president. He could have played the, the guy, the military general who works for the president.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7008.871

They just go, go through anybody that is involved with the president and he could probably play every part. Whereas like if Nick, when Nicholson's the president, You're kind of like, ah, it's Jack Nicholson. Like even when Jack Nicholson is in broadcast news and he's good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7025.391

But you could argue Hackman might've been better on that part, right? You know, you know what's interesting? Because he still feels like Jack Nicholson in broadcast news. I'm not buying him as like a network anchor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7047.424

He could like the Robert Prosky part. Like he was like working with Holly Hunter. Yeah, he could have been that guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7148.513

Well, the other thing, you know, and obviously we've done almost 375 rewatchables movies at this point. Part of, part of what becomes somebody's legacy is the rewatchability of some of the movies they made. And he just had such a great instinct for this guy. And then sometimes like he didn't, he thought Hoosiers was going to be a bomb.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7166.722

That ends up being the biggest basketball movie anyone's ever made. Right. And lives on forever and ever. He was, he was pissed the whole time he was making it. He was like, nobody's going to see this shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7179.113

Yeah, I think it was because it took him so long to realize, just turn the ball to Jimmy Chitwood. Clear out. Clear out. Don't overthink this. Stop running plays. We don't need four passes anymore. We have a generational star on our team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7306.971

One great thing about him he's just in a movies with most of the great stars from like three different generations of movies. Yeah. Right. He, I think Denzel might be, I'd be interested to see what the list is, but we always talk about six degrees of Kevin Bacon and it's like one degree of Gene Hackman. You could just go through Nick. He's worked with like Redford. Like it doesn't matter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7331.443

You go 50 years or 45 years, however long he was. And he's going to be in a movie. Like it'll be like, like Travolta was paying homage to him. And it was like, Hackman made so many movies. What was it? Get Shorty was his Travolta movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7344.151

Yeah. But you go through and you'd be like, just shout an actor out. Did they work with Gene Hackman? And they probably did. Shout an actress out. They probably did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7377.014

He did a movie with Richard Gere, Julie Christie, Kate Capshaw and Denzel Washington and J.T. Walsh. Can you name the movie?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7388.547

Richard Gere, Julie Christie, Kate Capshaw, and Denzel Washington as Arnold Billings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7405.895

No, it's later. It's 86. 86, okay. It was right when Hollywood was like, hey, Richard Gere, what's going on here?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7415.287

Why are we making all these, why are all these bombing? Are you not a movie star anymore?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7433.767

Well, this raises the second... Well, Richard Gere's too handsome. That's part of the problem. Yeah. But we've talked about Richard Gere when he taps into an internal affairs and officer gentleman. That's Richard Gere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7447.073

Hackman... As the guy in Pretty Woman would have been really interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7456.256

That's the one they wouldn't make, but that's the more realistic one. That's the more realistic one where he's like an older, dirty fucking guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7472.026

Then they tried Whore on the Street. That didn't work. They just kept trying titles. Just kept going for stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7501.742

He's making so many movies. Anyway, Gene Hackman, first bout Hall of Famer. Give me your one minute review of White Lotus through three episodes. Are you caught up?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7554.778

I'm not. Should I be watching? People keep telling me to watch it. Let me tell you. It's like ER crossed with 24.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7653.77

You know what? How many takes do they need to do? Say no more. I'm going to watch. You don't need to sell me anymore. This is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

7676.223

He was on that, what was that movie with the train, the crazy train? I thought he was on that movie that turned into a TV show, Snowpiercer. Snowpiercer train?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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No, he's in the TV version, I think. I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. You're right. You say so. I'm glad he's back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti as well. And don't forget Celtic City. You can catch up on the first episode on Max, new rewatchables, Rocky, Prestige TV podcast, episode three, White Lotus. Check out theringer.com, a great website. And I will see you on Thursday on this podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

781.8

I mean, the Giants are so stupid. What's the point of trading for Stafford? What, are you going to win the Super Bowl in the next three years? There's nothing. You're going to give up a possible starter slash all-pro in the second round because you want to go 7-10? What's the alternative?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

828.842

Come on. They have no chance. I would be going the other way and trying to trade guys to get more picks and trying to reboot it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

85.861

He's playing the last six weeks, 38.7 minutes, which led the league. So they're throwing this huge burden on a guy who hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr., And they're talking about how they rebuilt themselves. This was about a title window. They trade for Davis. He gets hurt in the first game. They put this crazy load on Kyrie. He breaks down. It's after the trade deadline.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

851.595

But this is the point. Then talk yourself into Cam Ward if you think he can be a top three pick. I mean, so this is why I brought up Stafford because the stuff has started today about they're going to leapfrog to one. They're going to take them one. It just feels like Cam Ward's going first in this draft. He very well might. It doesn't mean he's the best player. It doesn't mean it makes sense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

872.45

But there's three teams right now who just have no idea who their quarterback is going to be. The Raiders have the best chance to probably stumble into one because they have all the cap space. The Giants, I don't know how they get one that actually make my case that I just laid out. How are you going to make the playoffs? Like you're better off betting on a guy who maybe can become the guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Mavs Fans in Hell, Bleak NFL Situations, an Oscars Recap and RIP Gene Hackman | With Peter Schrager and Wesley Morris

949.988

The Jets fans didn't like him. Can we throw them in? Can we throw in how he looked last year where he had no legs and didn't want to get hit and was terrible?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.

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Even college, G League, Europe. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Phoenix and Philly. I think it's been a really, really crazy, weird season. But I think when you see all of these teams that are either falling apart down the stretch, throwing away second halves, resting guys or sitting guys out for the season with fake injuries, like foot contusion. Back stiffness.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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We've never been better at fake injuries. This is another case for me that we should be at 70 games. Why do we need this extra month of 12 teams not giving a shit?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1100.232

I was amazed he played 30 games. And then they had the list of all the games he's played. I mean, when you look at the Zion and Ja, that combo and that draft and how few those guys have actually been, how few times those guys have actually been available in games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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111.963

He has not done a podcast since... I think beginning of October, something like that. So he had a lot of takes to get off. And I had a blast. We went for two hours. It's super fun. Zach Lowe is back. He's here. Coming up first, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, my old friend Zach Lowe is here. He is joining The Ringer and Spotify. We're back, baby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Pretty incredible for how much time we spent talking about that lottery coming up, how important it was, how transformative it could be. And then, you know, either of those guys could stay on the court.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the vibes are, are off. I think, you know, people have been writing about it, but I think the teams that have been interacting with them and playing them are kind of like, ah, you know, same thing with Phoenix. You could feel it early on with that Phoenix season. I think to me, the Philly thing was not surprising to me at all. Um, I went under on them and the over-unders.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I didn't like the Paul George site signing and was trying to be careful about how I framed it. I thought it was the wrong city for him. I thought it was super risky. I knew how they had to do it, but I wasn't surprised how it played out. I was, I'm still stunned by Phoenix and you know, it's one of those things you look back and you're like, how did we get this so wrong?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1211.991

Why did we think like Budenholzer was going to come in and unleash this awesome offense? And it's been the opposite. Why did we misread the chemistry thing? Why did we discount role players? I still don't have an answer because if you're doing the all NBA exercises, Booker and Durant credential wise, are kind of in the mix for a third team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And yet I don't know if I can do it because of how bad that team's been week, week to week to week. I don't have an answer. So you're watching this from, from home. Are you like, what would you have written if you could have written a son's piece in January?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1310.407

Yeah, if you're going one to 10, how close-knit does a team look when you're watching them in person? And 10 would be any team that Tim Duncan was on where he had his arm around every single player on his team during every timeout and every foul stoppage. And that was just the feel-good, we love each other kind of era. That was one of the reasons I'll defend Tim Duncan to the death.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1329.58

His team's always had... that tightness, that closeness, you could see it when you went to the games. And the Suns were like a one and a half or two. I was shocked. They just looked like vessels passing in the night. Timeouts, nobody talking, people shooting foul shots, just five guys standing in different things, like all the check marks of things you don't want. And I think you and I are

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I hate using the word defenders, but I think we've been pretty pro KD and his legacy and how great he's been over the last almost two decades. It gets tough when you look at these last few years. I think it's going to become part of how people remember him, that he was on just a series of unhappy teams. He still has a chance to fix it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Maybe this summer, wherever he goes, maybe after his max count. He's already talked about how he'll take a minimum contract to end his career on a good team. But it's not nothing. This has been four years of, hmm, what's wrong with KD's team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think KD has a legitimate argument for best scoring forward in the history of the league. When you look at the peak years he had, plus the totality of all the seasons, things like that. You mentioned all the what-ifs, though. Just one thing, and then we'll move on. The Seattle thing, I think, is a bigger what-if than 2016. If that team just stays in Seattle...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And that was, I think that should have been a top seven or eight market just from an owner spending money. They had all this money moving in from the tech world that was already there and that was gonna keep getting bigger. And I just think there's this alternate universe where Howard Schultz doesn't sell The Sonics stay there. And Durant's still in Seattle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he's the most beloved athlete in the history of the city. Or at least since Ken Griffey. But he's in the running for most beloved Seattle athlete ever. And I really think that's a parallel universe that could exist. He never leaves. That team grows together. They spend money. They win titles. And we're discussing him in a completely different way. And I think that's real.

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We launched a podcast that is called The Zach Lowe Show. It's going to be Monday next week. There's a YouTube channel that's already up, and you're going to be doing a bunch of stuff for us, and I couldn't be more excited about it. This is a great week. Great to see you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Well, it's going to happen, especially after the Celtics got six billion plus, which was the number Adam Silver wanted the whole time. I talked about it last summer. They wanted to get to six. Now they can get six for the two expansion teams. I'm not positive who the two teams are going to be. I think it's 100% Vegas and 90% Seattle. We'll see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1604.182

Um, but I'm really hoping in Seattle and if it's not one of the expansion teams, I think there's a couple of teams that could potentially be franchise movers. We're going to take a break and come back and play. Uh, we had to do a gimmick on your return to the pod.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1643.117

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The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Now it's time for today's player bundles segment presented by State Farm. So it's tough to crown the best play in football history. No one can deny the magic when the right two players work together to pull off the unexpected. I hate admitting this and I was at the game and it almost broke my heart and I'm still bummed out about it. But the helmet catch,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1706.44

I think has to be considered the best play in football history. The Patriots tried to go 19 and 0. The Giants, Eli's running around. There's nine holding penalties on the play. They don't call any of them. Chucks it up into the middle of the field. And David Tyree jumps up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1722.907

Makes a catch that probably would have been the most incredible catch of the year anyway, because he catches the ball against his helmet and it somehow doesn't get dislodged when he lands. Two guys are on him. Keeps the drive going. The crowd made a sound that I can't even describe. And I think that's probably the craziest play in football history.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1742.433

Offensively, defensively, you go Malcolm Butler in the Super Bowl against Seattle, I think would be the leading contender for that. But you know what else is better together? than David Tyree and Eli Manning. I can't believe I'm praising them. Bundling your home and auto insurance with the personal price plan from State Farm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1760.855

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1779.67

Availability, amount of discounts and savings. and eligibility vary by state. Hey, before we do our gimmick, can we talk briefly about Lakers-Houston last night? Because I watched the whole game. I was really interested in Houston and how... they would play the Lakers and what a weird matchup that is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1798.979

And like the amount of athletes they have, could they basically just kind of overrun the Lakers a little, a little like what the bulls did the game I went to when the bulls just tried basically ran them off the court and the Lakers fell asleep and they let it happen. And it was like, well, what, what would this look like?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1814.59

What will this look like as they whip all of these athletes at the Lakers for two and a half straight hours? And my fear in the back of my head for the Rockets was this is going to be a close game in the last eight minutes and the Lakers are just going to out-execute them. And I'm not going to love the shots the Rockets took. There's going to be those mismatches.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The toughest thing with the Lakers now is you have those three guys that And the third guy is Reeves, who is a guy that on most teams, I think is now like a 23 to 25 points a game guy who can not only create his own shot, but create shots for other people. And now you're putting your worst defender on him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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And you're just constantly trying to, it's like whack-a-mole trying to figure out who do you stop? And the Rockets lost. And I don't think it was an accident. I think if those teams played in a playoff series, that would be the result. What was your take watching it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1971.28

Houston is still the number two. They have a, as we're taping this, they have a one loss, basically a one and a half game lead over Denver and the Lakers are kind of surging toward them. But the two spot means you're looking at golden state, Minnesota, the Clippers, unless Memphis drops down there. And I don't,

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198.004

Yeah, I was worried you might just sit out the whole year and we wouldn't get you for the awards, the playoffs, anything. But I think to me, the catalyst was the Luka trade. That was the moment where you were like, oh my God, I need a platform. Give me a platform right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

1991.011

I just feel like Houston, when I watch them, as good as the record's been, and I've enjoyed them, and I think they're in the running for league pass MVPs this year, I feel like they're a year away. They're a move away. The move probably involves Shangoon or Green, but they don't have that, like, I got this guy in offense, which is why the Booker option would have been so interesting for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2015.065

I don't know what they do, but don't you think like one year from now, I'm really interested to see where they are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2191.801

Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No. And it's, I feel the same way. Every time I watch them, there's three or four moments where I just kind of step out of the watching experience and go, how did this happen? How did we let this happen? How did we let this happen to the Lakers? What were some of the other big things that, you know, you were gone for four fifths of the season. What were some of the other stuff you wished?

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Oh man, I wish I had a column or, oh man, I wish I had a podcast. I would love to chime in on this. What were some of the big stories?

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2794.15

Or Hartenstein. Now, the OKC with the Hartenstein piece of it, because he's always been really good at the foul line and he's always been good in those four on three situations. So when he's out there, it gets tougher. But I still feel like, hey, Jalen Williams, can you beat us? is going to be a strategy. Chet's a little different because Chet always gets his points in the flow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2813.843

They're not like, oh, let's run our three Chet plays. But Jalen Williams, they need. They need him to beat guys off the dribble. They need him to do that little pull-up from 15 feet. And he's really good, but that's a different spotlight. And we haven't seen it. We didn't see it in the NBA Cup. We didn't see it last year in the playoffs. We just haven't seen him do it on a big stage yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think the problem with the NBA cup is it was cool as it was happening, but now we have two years in the bank and it's meaningless. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2887.975

Like the bucks don't even have remotely the same team anymore. They've, You know, they're keeping their fingers crossed on Kyle Kuzma corner threes. They don't know when Dame's coming back. They're a team that's going in the wrong direction. And it doesn't matter that they win the NBA Cup. I don't know how to fix that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2998.561

It's the nightmare scenario for the Lakers. And I'm in the camp of don't get sucked into, oh, the Lakers expertise, veteran, like two scores. This is the kind of team, like when I, when I saw OKC on Sunday night, play the Clippers and they were missing a couple of guys. So they had to play Dort and Caruso and Wallace together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it was like, Jesus Christ, this is the most terrifying perimeter defense I've ever seen in my life. Uh, those three together, they have all these looks. I think the Celtics are the same way where the Celtics can, because of Porzingis and Horford, and then they can have like the, all of a sudden there's four white guys out there and all of them can shoot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All of a sudden they're playing double bigs. All of a sudden Tatum is playing stretch five. Like they have different looks, but the OKC, uh, the wrinkles they have to me are the second biggest reason that you're going to pick them to win the NBA title. If you're going to pick them and I'm about to give you the number one reason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I do whatever I want. I just made up these rules 10 minutes ago. I'm going to the apex superstar category. Okay. And I'm taking SGA because, um, You know, we have a week and a half left and Jokic, who's one of my favorite players, non-Celtics probably ever, having the best statistical season he's ever had. And I think he's carried a massive load.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And at this point, I still think I'm voting for SGA. I mean, the odds, it's not a controversial pick. The odds are... way, way up there for them. But the piece that's interesting to me heading into the playoffs, it isn't just can OKC win the title. It isn't just can Sam Presti, who's, you know, done a pretty incredible job for almost two decades here. Is this all going to finally work out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Are we in an 86 Celtics with also having the number two pick in the draft coming up scenario of, holy shit, not only is this the best team in the league, but they also have this asset and all these young players and what the hell are we going to do? They're in that zone. But for SGA... There's no zone, by the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The only case is the Celts after they won the 86 title with bias coming for those 48 hours before he tragically died, which recovered in Celtic City. uh, in episode five. That's the only other thing I could think of where they went 67 and 15. There are 50 and one at home.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3164.437

They had a three time MVP and they were adding somebody who worst case scenario was going to be as good as, you know, in that Barkley, Carl Malone thing. That's the only thing I could think of. Here's the case for SGA. Why I took them here. If they win the title and they just kick everybody's ass and they end up finishing, uh, I don't know, can they get to, what, 69, 70 wins for the season?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3187.544

They end up being like an 84, 85, 86-win team, which would put them on the short, short list, with him at the lead. on top of the fact that he's having one of the greatest offensive seasons in the history of the guard position. Like it's, it's up there with any Oscar season. I talked about this a couple of weeks ago, any Jordan season, any Kobe season, like pick a great guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3210.834

He's either doing better than one of their best seasons or he's right there. And then if he just keeps that rolling through the playoffs and, And we finished mid June and we're like, holy shit, the Thunder just went 86 and 16 and SGA averaged 35 in the playoffs. And this is now Michael Jordan. I think he's the most intriguing guy to me in either conference. He has the most at stake.

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I hate nobody's talking about these guys enough and nobody's giving these guys enough credit conversation on talk shows because I feel like we've talked about OKC a lot all over the place. It's just the way the infrastructure is going to go. They're always going to talk about LeBron and the Lakers and the big ass teams a little bit more. Just how it goes. I actually feel like we haven't

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totally talked about how great SGA is as a scorer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I feel like we're like a couple conversations, videos, breakdowns short because watching it in person and watching all the moves he has and watching the yo-yo shit he does and how helpless defenders are against him when they know what he's trying to do and how he can get to the rim, how he uses contact, how every team thinks he's getting all the calls and they're pissed off the whole game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's just, it's really a master performance. He's really great. And I think going against him in a finals is fucking terrifying, no matter what round, but especially like for the Celtics. And they have the perfect team to stop him, right? They have wings with size. They have weight. They have holiday. They have rim protection with Porzingis. It's everything you'd want.

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And I still think he'd get 35 a game against him. I don't think it matters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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How did he create the space?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. It's so funny how it's evolved because when I was going to see him as a rookie on the Clippers and it was like, ah, this guy's kind of Rondo-y. I could see him like a, you know, elite defensive player and a good playmaker. Like he's really interesting player. He's definitely going to be really good. But this is like, he's one of the best guards I've ever seen in person ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't, I don't know how long that list is and I'll probably have to figure it out at some point, but it's, it's on the short list of the, the best, most impactful guys. Like the Clipper game I went to Sunday, he couldn't buy a shot. Just was one of those. The ball was rolling around the rim. The ball was hitting the back. Like he was getting all the shots he wanted. They just weren't going in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it was kind of shocking to watch. It was like, Oh my God. Shay's not getting bounces? He always gets bounces. Anyway. All right. We're on a slow pace. We've only done two. What's your next guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You try to destroy me. Like OKC is going to try to destroy the Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know. I just think they like... They've been number one seed for like a month. I don't really understand why their defense went sideways. I'm with you on Mobley. There's going to be... I think he's their most important guy in a Celtics series. More important than Mitchell, anyone else they have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3798.477

And there's going to be two or three times in that series where he has an open three in the last four minutes of a game they need. And I'm not sure if it's going to go in or not. And it might and it might not. But that's going to be the thing. If he's hitting threes and doing all the other stuff and looking like late 90s KG on top of the three-point thing, then they could win the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But there's no question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, I'm going to continue that conversation with my next pick because I have some thoughts.

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I'm going to grab in the defensive stud category. Okay. Lou Dort. Wow. Okay. I haven't done all my defensive player of the year work, and I'm not going to say I think it should be this guy. I really want to study it because I think it's really interesting that there's no clear-cut guy. I'll just say this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Lou Dort is the best defensive player I've watched this season in multiple games, and I've been shocked by some of the shit he's done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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What he did to Jalen Brown in the game in Boston was startling. And we were arguing on Sunday's pod about how tall he is because I was watching him stand next to other dudes. And I swear he looks like he's 6'2". Maybe he's like 6'3", whatever he is. But he guards everybody. And the thing with him that you know how... good of a defensive player he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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People get actively bummed out when he's on them. He had a game, I think, a week or two weeks ago when he just was like, I'm just going to take out Desmond Bain today. Desmond Bain went one for 12. He destroyed Brown in the Boston game. I went to that Clipper game and he could guard everybody in the Clippers. I've been to two OKC Clipper games where Harden just has this look like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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This is the worst two and a half hours of my life, all these dudes, but especially Dort. And I just think, right, I know Daniels has been amazing. So good, by the way. The hands, the steals, the poke checks, the athleticism. He's won games with his defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Wait, can I say one thing on Daniels? Yeah. Because I completely agree. And obviously not allowed to bet on the awards. I always want to mention that. But I always look to see, like, am I missing something? Like, Dort was 26-1 last week. And I'm like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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I haven't done all my work yet, but if you just put a gun to my head right now and said pick a defensive player of the year, I think I'd pick Dort because he was the best defender I've seen. I felt the same way about Daniels. I thought he was going to be favored for most improved player, but it's Cade. Daniels is plus 110. I'm not shocked that Cade's better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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He was the number one pick in the draft and he has a better coach and whatever. Daniels was thrown into the DeJounte Murray trade, basically. You know, he was one of the prizes, but it wasn't like, oh my God, they traded Dyson Daniels. It was like, I don't know what that guy is. And now you watch him and he's like an absolute keeper.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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And I don't know why he wouldn't be the most improved player of the year. I don't get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4054.336

Well, they missed him in that Clipper game I went to. Not having him on Kawhi, you could feel the difference because that's 6'8 type of guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Yeah, it's, this is why, you know, sometimes this happens. You have to pick a player and it's probably not Lou Dort, but whatever OKC is doing defensively, it almost needs like, you need like a defensive players of the year award just to capture the fucking havoc. And they start immediately and the teams, you can see it in their faces really like, oh my God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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This really, you're going to defend me 90 feet. Yeah, we are actually, we're going to make your life miserable for two and a half hours. And then Wallace is going to go out and Caruso is going to come in. Oh, Hey, how about, we're gonna throw some blue door on you. That team's a nightmare. Make your next pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4158.06

Ah, he was on my list.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

426.434

There was a lot of stuff to work with there. Now, I think Mobley and Tatum are in the finals of... Oh, I didn't realize you were kind of a bully deep down. Both of those guys, I think, have asserted themselves in ways that we always wondered, is it in there? And Tatum, who's been awesome, right? He's been one of the top three or four players in the league for most of the decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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The NFL Draft is in four weeks. Don't forget to listen to Todd McShay's show or subscribe to his newsletter because he has some great, great, great draft stuff. Check it out. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables last night. It was Good Will Hunting, the episode that we did live in Boston last Thursday at House of Blues. So much fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Yeah, I'm not banking on Mitchell Robinson. No, you can't. Celtics are a nightmare matchup for Towns. There's so many different ways to attack him and mess with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4429.448

Yeah, it's been interesting because there's been some Celtic games where they haven't wanted to tip anything at all. And then there's been other games when they've tried to send a message. And that was one of the messages. I like the Towns pick. I don't really know what he is, but this is going to be the best version ever of it, right? He's never going to be better than he is this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4446.137

He's never going to be in a better situation as a stretch five slash flimsy rim protector on a really good team. So we'll see. I actually have been shocked by how well that trade worked out. I think if you had told me what's going to be a disaster, Paul George on the Sixers or Towns on the Knicks and had like a betting line on it, I would have said minus 160 Paul George.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

447.332

Top five, whatever rankings you want to do. But he's in there. He's first team all NBA multiple times. There was that small piece of like... Does he really want to stick it to the other team? Does he want to eviscerate the guy he's going against? Does he want to send a message? Does he want to bully somebody? Does he want to take offense to how he's being defended?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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but I think there would have been some towns action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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What are we going to do without podcast P? Um, all right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4506.322

On the line? Some good legacies on the line. There's going to be a lot of legacy talk.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4514.875

This is it. He has to come through tonight. I think the Tatum legacy case is by far the most interesting of all the legacies, except for the Laker guys. And I don't want to take the Laker guys. I'll leave them to you. The Tatum thing coming back from last year where he doesn't win either award. And then he goes to the Olympics, misses the first two practices, just had a kid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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ends up not playing, buried on the bench, and then his transformation this year, and if he actually comes through into the much tougher playoff competition this year and becomes the guy that we've been watching the last couple months, I think there's a real edge to him. I've been so impressed. Look, I know the Celtics have been locked in the two-seed forever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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I've been so impressed with how they've looked the last month or so. And I know when teams get locked into playoff spots, they have a tendency to drift one way or another, or you can have a tendency to overreact to what you're seeing. I'm seeing a really mentally tough team. And I think Missoula is fanatical about...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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this whole season about what it's like to defend a title, what it takes, what kind of mental edge you need, how you have to have a bullseye, how you have to have a chip on your shoulder. I think he's been motivated them a lot. I think he's been really challenging them. And Tatum has been the guy that he's challenged the most and Tatum does the most

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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And now he's in a situation where if they win the title, this is no 1A, 1B situation anymore. He's the best guy in this team. And he's one of the best three to four guys in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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No, I'm just saying there was like 1A, 1B stuff last year with those guys. They were a pairing. They're not really a pairing anymore. He's the best guy on the team. And if he rips through and they win back-to-back and he's by far the best guy... Now it's a different conversation about where he is career-wise, where he is historically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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People start looking at his decade, the All-NBAs, all the playoffs. And there's some real great stuff sitting for him now. So I just wanted to capture the moment there, Zach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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And I don't know whether it was, you know, not winning the awards during the championship season last year or what happened in the Olympics or just age, the fact that he's 27. But I personally see... a little bit of an edge to him that I don't think was there last year. And I think it's really helped the Celtics team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4753.205

Yeah, there's a strength thing with him. Remember like LeBron in the late 2000s when we were like, he's got to get stronger. He's got to start posting up people. He's got to be more physical. And then there was some moment, probably when he got to Cleveland again after the Miami thing, where all of a sudden physically he just seemed imposing. And you could feel it and you could feel the shift.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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And it's like, you can't guard LeBron with that guy anymore. A little of that's happening with Tatum when they try to put smaller guys on him. He just is bullying people and he's really strong now. I've been really impressed. I think he's, I think he's checked every box for me. I was worried last summer, you know, his three point shot was going sideways. He's benched in the Olympics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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It was like, oh my God, where's this going? And instead it went the best possible way. What's your next pick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4814.836

Oh, I thought you were going someone else. Jesus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4822.139

No, there's plenty of time for that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

484.155

You look at like, I think they're 15 and one in their last 16 playing for nothing. They're the two seed. They've been the two seed forever, but there's an edge to them now. And they go on the road. I feel like they're, they have that little swagger that I think you need on a back-to-back team. I think he's a big reason for it. And then Moby, same thing. Like just seems like he's,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Giannis just putting up 30, 12, and 6 every game. And it was like, how did I just watch?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

4991.397

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

502.179

Not a pushover anymore. Anybody else in that group with those two that dug down and found something that you were surprised by?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

5096.82

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

521.975

I guess Reeves would be another one, right? That had a little more in there than maybe we were expecting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

5443.939

Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,, ,,,,,, ,,,,,,,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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,,,,,,, as a human being. Like, shit like that. Shit that goes beyond basketball. I just think he is an all-timer. I hope he keeps coming to games after he retires. He has moved into the fabric of the team in the city in a real way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

5754.095

No, you don't. All right. We got to, we got to move with some pace now. What's your next pick? Why don't you take Trey Young somewhere? Let's talk about him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

5768.697

You've taken two crossroads guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

5885.669

It's a delight. And it's why you do the Jimmy Butler trade, which I described as not a Hail Mary, but throwing in a double coverage on third and 14 and hoping your guy makes a play. They had to do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

5903.035

I would have put Kaminga in it too if I had to. If it was a choice between the first round pick or Kaminga, I would have thrown Kaminga in there. It's a great pick. I have nothing to add.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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you know, the Utah thing wasn't, he, he had some good moments there and it got a little rocky near the end. And then he goes to Cleveland and it was a weird trade. They gave up a lot. And then the next couple of years, people like me, and maybe even you were talking about, he eventually wants to ends up in New York, which I'm a hundred percent sure is true.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Um, and then the next door closes with Brunson, Brooklyn falls apart. Um, And it becomes one of those situations where it's like, maybe this is the best spot for me. I really think that he probably went through that thought exercise and landed there. Like we have really good players. Maybe I could be on a championship team. How do I elevate these guys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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And, you know, we talked about how he slipped a little since the all-star break, but the, the game the other night was a good example of like, he still has that that think to him, you know, that when you're in a playoff series, we're in a game six, game seven, I need somebody who can go toe to toe with whoever the best guy is in another team. I think he has it. And he has a chance to,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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To now not only be a first team all NBA guy, but to maybe play in the finals. I think he's a great guy. I've always heard good things about him. He does a lot of good charitable stuff and seems like a good teammate. I think the Cavs guys all love him. And I'm just happy he's in that moment because I like him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6036.058

Okay. All right, you're up. I can't believe we haven't done hot seat coach yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6044.627

Well, we could do... Why don't we just do fat... Let's each do a hot seat coach. We don't have to talk about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6056.249

Oh, all right. That's fair. I think the seat... It's like an inferno. I don't know if it's hot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6076.66

I don't see how he comes back. I just think this is who Ishby is. I think he just every year is like, all right, none of this was my fault again. Who can I blame? I have tips for this category. Oh, my God. Yeah, I sure do. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Defensively, They're pretty easy to score on. Offensively, the numbers are great and the Brunson Towns thing is legendary, all that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6123.338

I just feel like from a creativity standpoint, the stuff you mentioned earlier and I've been talking about all year and the Knicks fans don't want to hear it, but I just don't understand why you're trading all that stuff for bridges and then you don't give a shit about using them ever. I think there's a version of this team That is way scarier to me as a Celtics fan than they've tapped into.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

613.72

Yeah. Well, I, I, you know, when I went with that Clipper OKC game last week, And I was watching the intensity and the physicality of it. And it kind of helped frame where my brain was for the playoffs because I feel like whatever competitiveness I was watching that game and how high level it was. So I left the game and I'm driving home and I'm like, how many teams could actually get to that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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I don't think he's used the bench enough. I think he's played the guys way too many minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6188.7

We both like Tibbs. I think there's a real question of whether his coaching style can be sustainable for nine months if you're trying to win a title, and we're going to find out. Brunson stepped on somebody's foot. You can't say it was the minutes that caused it, but I don't think it's sustainable how he coaches, and I don't think he's been creative enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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I do think... Can I quibble with the Minutes thing too? Because it's those two things together that I think are the biggest red flags.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

63.962

You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. Prestige TV pod. I did White Lotus episode seven. Recap for that. And that is on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel as well as a video podcast on Spotify. We've been putting a ton of video pods up. on Spotify, including today's guest, Zach Lowe. We announced late Sunday night that he is going to be joining The Ringer and Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Counter. He has awesome guys on offense. You and I could have done that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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He's on the hot seat for me. If they lose to that weird Bucks team in round one, or they get absolutely smoked by the Celtics in round two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Or do you say he's taken them as far as they could go? Well, we'll find out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6362.162

What's your next pick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

637.679

And it's interesting that the Clippers are one of the teams, right? We don't know what's going to happen with the West. Memphis is still in the middle of the pack in the playoff thing, but they might be the eighth seed by the time we actually finish the season. It's going to be roulette left and right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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So I'm going to make that hot seat wild card. So we had hot seat coach and that was supposed to be hot seat player, but we'll make it a wild card pick player coach. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6489.215

Maybe they can hire one of the 17 fired Grizzlies assistant coaches.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6495.123

Like... So Rudy right now is high-fiving people in his living room. I have for my hot seat wildcard, Julius Randall. We don't need to talk about it. There's a scenario where he just completely torpedoes Minnesota in round one and people are like, that guy sucks. You can't ruin them. He ruined Minnesota. Got to get him out of here. We all see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

650.33

But I see a team like Minnesota, and I think fundamentally they could get to what I watched in that game, right? Intensity, competitiveness, defense, switching, physicality. I think the Warriors might be able to get there as weird as that sounds with how late they've gotten in the season. The question for me is the Lakers because they're big. And we went to the Laker game together last week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6520.731

What's your next pick? You still haven't picked an Apex superstar.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6563.223

Obviously the game we went to, he scored what? 21 points in the first eight minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6603.85

And so you wouldn't have traded Anthony Davis and Max Christie in a number one for him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6611.21

You wouldn't have taken that as a trade offer. If you were the Mavs, you would have said no. I would have been your move.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6644.245

When, when do we have to stop pretending that that was the case, but I can't pretend that LeBron and Rich Paul and Anthony Davis didn't know about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6690.916

Should we do an RIP for the people who had the 48 hours of, I'm not sure these guys can play together? That was... One of my favorites. Unbelievable. That was great. That was a nice little basketball IQ test.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

672.24

They're missing a rim protector. LeBron has to rebound. I think a little more than maybe he's ever had as a burden in his career. And same for Luca, like they're going to have to patch some stuff together, but ultimately it's a pretty physical team and kind of a different way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6751.59

They both have an inside-outside game and can pass. And the other thing is they don't have to play all the minutes together. That's the piece I thought of right away, and I wasn't alone, of like, well, fuck, one of these guys is going to be out there for two and a half hours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6815.615

And the crowd likes the team. They're going to be tough to beat in LA. Yeah, the... Well, that leads to my third banana pick, which is Austin Reeves. We don't need to spend 10 minutes on it, but I think he's the best third score on a team, not just this year, but in a while. When you're talking about a guy that

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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Might be able to score in the thirties, even if the whole team's playing, but also one of our two guys is out. Can you score 40 tonight? He can do that. There's nobody, nobody has that in the NBA right now. And nobody's had it for a while. I was trying to think of like best third scores on really good teams. And you go backwards to Steph, KD, and then Klay was the third scorer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6857.938

But even as great as Klay was and as great of a shooter as he was, you couldn't run the offense through him. They can run the offense to Reeves for like six, seven minutes, and he actually can create shots for himself or other people. It's pretty great. So there's a lot of good third bananas. I think he's the best one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

688.399

Um, do you think they have that in them that when we're talking about intensity, competitiveness, the defense, the banging, we saw it last night. It seems like they do, but I'm a little suspicious just because of how much of the load is on a 40 year old LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

6890.791

By the way, that's a team to watch, and we haven't even mentioned them yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7005.316

Maybe just trading with each other. Well, I mean, this Kings thing now, it's a decade and a half almost. We did that Grantland draft room, war room short when they let us behind the scenes. Remember that? It's on YouTube somewhere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7020.446

And Vivek is kind of nudging people towards Stauskas. They sing to him. Don't they like sing or chant something on the phone? They call him like, one, two, three, something. I'm going to make this quick. My crossroads guy is Kawhi Leonard. And here's why.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7044.725

His bounce is there if you see it in person. I don't know how long it's going to last. And it's gotten to the point when he's out there with the other guys they have. The Clipper fans, I think rightfully so, are like, we can hang with any team in the league. And the reason he's a crossroads thing is, I think the Clipper fans are at the crossroads with that feeling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7066.649

This is now over a half decade of, well, if Kawhi can just dot, dot, dot. And I think this is it. And if he gets hurt again or he falls apart in some way or he's not there or in round one all of a sudden, game three, Shams is reporting Kawhi Leonard is doubtful for tonight. I just don't think the Clipper fans want to do it again. This has been... five years of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7090.9

So it's a crossroads from a sense of you can't realistically think you can win the title if he's one of your highest paid guys and best guys in the team when he hasn't been able to make it through a season in a half a decade. And that's it. You don't need to have anything else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7171.28

I do the list every week. He was on my third team this week. I don't know if he's going to stay, but he's in there. Who do you have for a defensive stud? That's a hole for you right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7186.948

Let's do Amin Thompson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7198.779

I don't care that everything... You saw him in person this year, right? Yeah. Yeah, we were texting about it. It's different in person. It's like, all these guys are amazing athletes and yet he's a better athlete than all the amazing athletes. It's crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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I'm going to use a second banana pick because I have one. And I'm going to take Jimmy Butler just because I feel like he needs to be in any sort of most intriguing guys heading into the playoffs list. It's been really fun to watch him. I don't know what happened with Miami. And I think blame goes everywhere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

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And it seemed it got really, really, really deeply, darkly personal with him and Pat Riley. about as personal as it's gotten with an executive and a player maybe ever. And I think it affected everything to the point where both sides needed to move on and they did. And he went to Golden State and he's clicked with Draymond and the Warriors took off immediately and it's prolonged Steph's prime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7284.357

And I can't wait to watch him in a playoff series again because he's fucking awesome in the playoffs. So where they land, we'll see who they're playing. We don't know. Um, but it's great to have them involved because I did not like this Miami version of Jimmy this year. It was just felt like a wasted, wasted talent this year. It's like, this guy's good. He still has it in him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7305.79

We're just going to throw a season away for no reason. So he is, uh, my second band of pig. All right. I don't know if I did this correctly, but it seems like we only have two spots left. I still need my leap guy. I'm going to give you a wild card, Beck, so we can get to 25. I just want to point out we haven't taken Nikola Jokic yet in this intriguing thing. You have the floor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7326.464

You haven't been able to talk about him for five months.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7427.012

So we'll make Jamal and Jokic the co-wildcard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7439.824

I was thinking more wildcard, like Jokic just rips through the West. Beats OKC by himself, makes the finals again. And we're like, oh, my God, this is one of the eight greatest players of all time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7458.723

Talked about him a little on Sunday. Tyrese Halberton.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7465.305

So they're in that four or five spot against Detroit. it looks like, assuming Milwaukee stays in six. And we all like Detroit. It's a feel-good story. But I just think Indiana has a better team than them. Detroit's going to try to muck it up and there's a chance we might be really celebrating the 20th anniversary of the Artest Melee in an actual way with the same uniforms.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7486.981

Don't say that. Don't do that. I'm just a little worried. Detroit clearly loves brawling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7498.584

Yeah, it's great. Thanks for the jersey. Thanks for the jersey. I just want to mention, James Johnson's on the Pacers. So I'm prepared for anything in a Pacers Pistons series. But with Halliburton, the way he's played the last three months, he fully looks back to where he was the first two months of the previous season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7521.169

There's a path here for him playing the Pistons around one going toe to toe with the Cavs in round two, where it's just like we leave that series like, wow, Halliburton has been the best guy through four games. Holy shit. Are the Pacers going to beat the Cavs? They could just run up and down the way the Cavs defense has been the last month or so. There's some vulnerabilities.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7542.885

I guess my question is, how good is Halliburton? Is there a level for him to go up in the playoffs? Was last year just a fluke of injuries and the fact that the East wasn't deep and they snuck into the Eastern finals and it didn't mean anything? Or did that actually mean a little more than we realized? I'm just intrigued. So I have him as my possible leap guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7601.158

Yeah, there's like 10 years ago, Obi Toppin is in the running for sixth man of the year because we had way less six better of the year candidates. And we're like, hey, what about we're just trying to talk ourselves into candidates? I mean, he comes in and swings games every once in a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7641.147

I just realized with the categories that I put Luca down twice for you and that Jokic can be your legacy guy. So moving in here, here's where we land.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7651.87

Apex superstar. I had SGA. You had Luca. Okay. Beloved bench guy. I had Horford. You had Malik Beasley. Crossroads guy. You have cat. I have Kauai. Defensive stud. Lou door for me. I'm in Thompson for you. Feel good. Star step Curry for you. Donovan Mitchell for me. Hot seat coach. Controversial category. Budenholzer for you. Tibbs for me. You jerked backwards and screamed out, whoa!

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7681.783

Hot seat wildcard. You went with Jamal Morsley on the Orlando Magic who can no longer score. I went with Julius Randle. Legacy guy. I have Tatum. You have Jokic. Second banana, you took Jalen Williams and Chet Hormigan together. I allowed it. I took Jimmy Butler. Third banana, Austin Reeves for me, Levine for you. The leap, Mobley for you, Halliburton for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7705.064

Trade machine guy, Giannis for you, Ja for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7717.192

That gimmick actually worked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7720.621

I'm really glad to face you. We didn't pick LeBron James. Maybe we should put him as another wild card.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7728.884

Okay. He'll be fine. Hopefully he's okay with not being mentioned as one of the 25 most intriguing players in the playoffs. He's kind of legacy and printed onto it. We don't even need to have him in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7748.308

Yeah, yeah. He's lingering above. I'm sure there'll be some LeBron fans out there who'll be upset. They didn't even pick LeBron. Welcome back, Zach. Fuck you. Zach Lowe, you start your podcast on The Ringer next week. It's called The Zach Lowe Show. So I guess you're going to have to do that. Welcome to The Lowe Show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7775.912

I remember losing the BS report once upon a time. And it hurt, and it just became the BS podcast, and then that's how it went. Your YouTube channel, we launched that as well. There's going to be some writing stuff that we'll talk about as the playoffs get closer. That's a TBD. And anything that I didn't leave out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7804.31

10 years since we've worked together steadily and we're back and it's great to have you back. It's great to have you in the basketball conversations. I had a fantastic time. Great to see you as always, my friend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7821.717

All right. Welcome back. All right. That's it for the podcast. You can watch it on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can always watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. I hope you're watching Celtic City. We put up an awesome episode, episode five. It was about the mid 80s and Larry Bird. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

7907.059

Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

838.766

Yeah, and the thing that jumped out to me, seeing them a couple of times in person recently, is athletically, he doesn't... Yeah, I remember there was a moment with Karl Malone in the early 2000s, where he still looked like Karl Malone, his hair was going, but physically he was about as imposing. But athletically, there was just some slip, and you could feel it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

857.883

And you could feel that when Jordan was on the Wizards. Now, granted, it was a different era. They have way better ways to stay at the top physically now. But you could see, like, oh, he's losing this, he's losing that. LeBron will have these moments where it's like, this guy looks athletically as devastating as he was 10 years ago. He hit that block last night in the Houston game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

87.778

He launched the Zach Lowe Show, which you can subscribe to on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. It's going to be a video podcast twice a week, Mondays. Thursdays, maybe a couple other stunt special pods episodes during the course of the playoffs. Who knows? Writing as TBD. We talked about that when he comes on here in a little bit. We want to do a big gimmick for Zach's return pod.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

876.371

where he was up and he read it and it was like, you know, it wasn't a chase down block, but it was half court, but he was up in the air. I was like, all right. Uh, yeah, I think round one is going to be a little easier for them with all the breaks. Round two is where round two is the separate the men's from the men from the boys round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

894.957

And that's where the teams with the bench, like Cleveland and OKC in Boston, it's such an advantage. I mean, he's playing every other day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 25 Most Intriguing NBA Playoff Guys With Zach Lowe

975.022

So embarrassing. If you kept a list, if the expanded standings had a list of, wow, you just didn't care tonight games, other than the lottery teams and the teams that are tanking, Phoenix would easily be the number one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

0.229

You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1009.404

residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up. Ends on May 5th, 2025. See official rules at mcglobalture.com slash rules for price and detail. Message and data rates may apply void where prohibited. All right, come back. We're into the AFC North. There's a world where this is the best division next year. depending on what happens with Cleveland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1035.756

Like, if they took Sanders at second and he was good right away with the rest of the team they have, maybe. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1051.479

Baltimore, so the AFC North is playing the AFC East and the NFC North. Pretty tough. Pretty tough. So for easy games, if the Bears are even mediocre to decent, there's no easy games in the NFC North. And then in the AFC East, maybe the Jets, maybe the Dolphins, maybe the Pats, but maybe two of those three teams are like pretty frisky. So that's a pretty tough one. Baltimore first place schedule.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1077.318

They're going to have Sunday night games, Monday night games. They're in the running for a Christmas game, a Thursday game. You know, they're going to have another monster schedule because they want to put Lamar on TV. I predicted 11 and a half for this. That's exactly what I said. Where are we? The answer is 11 and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1103.044

That's one of those, if the schedule stuff was a little easier, I would have gone 12 and a half. But I think you almost have to do the docket by one game just because you know it's probably headed for them. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1120.492

Last year, Pittsburgh 10 and 7. Second place schedule. We talked about the AFC East, NFC North. And as far as we know, they don't have a quarterback yet. Now, they're running out of possibilities because the Giants signed two of the guys. Rodgers is still lurking and just seems like he's milking it. There's Jackson Dart possibilities, I guess, maybe. They wanted to try to Bo Nix that situation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1146.121

Not a lot of other options after that unless they want to play the Mason Rudolph card. And yet, this is a team every year that goes over there over. Do you think they factored that in with the silver under pick or not?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1185.07

Or trade for not Kenny Pickett, but somebody of that ilk. Yeah. Give up like a sixth round pick. It's pretty brutal. I can't believe they didn't figure this out. So I guessed eight and a half. That's what it was last year. Sounds great. What'd you have? I said seven and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

119.731

NFL win total over-unders came out today and cousin Sal and I decided we missed guess the lines. We're just going to do it again. We're going to play guess the lines with the over-unders. We intentionally did not look at them. They came out on Fandle right before we taped this podcast. And that's what you're about to hear. But first, Pearl Chip. All right, taping this on a Thursday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1202.455

What is it? You're right. Seven and a half. Yeah. Wow. You're doing better than me. You're up. You're plus two on me right now. And there's been, there's been some juice already. That is minus one 20 as we're taping this. It is one 51 Pacific East time juice on the over. Yeah. Okay. Because Mike Tomlin wins nine or 10 games every single year. And that's just what he does.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1236.417

Maybe even 16. Rodgers going to the Steelers is probably the most fun outcome from a content standpoint. And there's a chance that Steelers fans will just hate his guts by November. But we'll see how it goes. Cincinnati. I had the hardest time with this one. I think of anyone in the AFC. They're playing the AFC, San Francisco North. Third place schedule. They re-signed their receivers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1262.167

They have Burrow. We'll see what happens with Hendrickson. Middle of the first round pick. I couldn't get to the 10 range with them. I went nine and a half. What'd you do?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1287.341

You're fucking killing me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1297.044

One thing with this one, though, there's already a lot of juice on the under. It's minus 130, the under 10 and a half. So I might be right in two months. I don't see 11 wins for this team. That's a lot. That 11 wins makes them one of the four best teams in the AFC. And you would take Buffalo over them. You'd take Casey over them. You would definitely take Baltimore over them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1320.868

And then, then it comes down to, would you take, take like, are they in the Texans chargers kind of class? Yeah. Or higher than that. Because that over-under says they're higher than that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1350.554

Yeah, and we still don't know what's happening with Hendrickson. Yeah. Cleveland, 3-14 last year. Fourth place schedule. and no cap space whatsoever. Kenny Pickett maybe is the quarterback unless they take Sanders.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1370.982

It was Pickett. Somehow Philly got like a six round pick out of it to trade Pickett, turn Pickett into Dorian Thompson Robinson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1380.164

He's like a six rounder. That's got to be it. I went low.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1392.989

Nailed it. Five and a half. Is it? Okay. Yep. So, juice on that one, too, already. Minus 125. So, people are banging the over. If you're banging the over, there's a case for it. You have to think they're taking Sanders and that he's going to be good right away. Right? He's Bo Nix next year for them. And... I don't know. I guess that's the case.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1431.427

Titans are. I think Titans. I think Cam Ward is pretty locked into that one. All right. McShay had some intel in his newsletter that he thought there was a possibility the Giants were trying to trade up to one and basically got the word that Titans were taking Ward. Everyone seems to think he's going first. The odds reflect it. Right now, he is minus 1,200 on FanDuel to be the first pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1469.58

I told our guy Jack at FanDuel, I said I wanted them to have the Bill Simmons runs around his house with his arms up in the air screaming euphorically, one, two, three, four draft scenario that I want to be able to bet. Oh, let's hear it. Ward goes first. Cleveland takes Sanders second. Giants take Travis Hunter third.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1490.33

And then we get Abdul Carter fourth in that I'm running around my house like this. That's fine. And I want to be able. And by the way, we should be able to bet that they don't have the exact order draft things yet because I think it's too far away. They usually do it two weeks before the draft. I want it now. Yeah. We're within a month. Like fucking put it up. Let's go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1507.079

I want to bet all kinds of scenarios.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1515.663

Abdul's fine. All right, AFC South. Now, they're playing the AFC West and the NFC West this year. What are your thoughts on that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1534.952

That was a tepid endorsement.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1548.782

Oof. Okay. Well, that number's about to drop for the AFC. So Houston, 10-7 last year, and then they're playing the West and the West.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1560.209

I think you could argue they're worse. Right? I don't know when Tank Dell's coming back. Diggs is gone. He was gone anyway. They traded Tunsell. They got a second-round pick for him. The AFC South, I'm assuming, will be a whiff better than it was last year. And they're playing a first-place schedule. I wanted to go 10.5, and I couldn't get there. I went 9.5. What'd you do? That's what I have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1585.842

We'll see. I did think about the round 10. Yep, 9.5. Ooh! Breaking. You got it, right? Yeah, not only do we get it right, minus 160 on the under. So that's the biggest. So the most action we've seen so far is that. Minus 160. Vegas doesn't like Houston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

160.534

Cousin Sal is here. Normally, we just play Guess the Lions during the NFL season. We haven't seen Sal since the Super Bowl. The saddest look on his face every year, knowing that it's come to an end. And now we came up with a new idea. Thursday, I'm doing a pod. You are available. Fandle dropping. NFL over-under win total. So we said last night, I'm not going to look.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1610.012

Fire their offensive coordinator?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1628.781

Indianapolis, 8-9 last year. Second-place schedule. Our guy DeBundo is a little higher on the Anthony Richardson. Don't count this guy out. He was banged up last year. This is going to be the FU comeback year for Richardson. If that doesn't happen, Daniel Dimes is right behind him. What'd you get?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1675.059

And it's seven and a half. And minus 110 both ways. Not a lot of Colts, actually. All right. So you're still up plus two on me, but we've nailed the last couple. Okay. This one was a hard one. Jacksonville. Third place schedule. West and West. Four and 13 last year. Hmm. You know, I don't know what this team does. I don't understand it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1696.528

Like they waive Christian Kirk and then just sign another receiver for the money. And now they're paying two fine receivers, a double salary, basically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1709.271

I'm not. Fifth pick in the draft could be Gentee. Could be Tyler Warren. Everybody likes him as like an awesome tight end. They just keep throwing resources at the receiver position. It never happens. But I was between five and a half and six and a half for this. New coach was the big thing for me. And I went six and a half. What'd you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1739.231

You did not go too high.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1744.274

You want to cash out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1746.555

Is there a bet back? What's that bet back thing Findo has? Not only is it seven and a half, minus 130. So action on the Jaguars. What am I missing? On the top. What are we missing? Just bad division?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1773.627

our agent, James Babydoll Dixon. Yeah, baby. Likes to wish luck from people. Wish luck to some people from time to time. Some people recently got some luck.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1784.074

Yeah, there's some people in the Hollywood industry who might have been phased out of their jobs. Luck was wished by James Babydoll Dixon. I wish everyone a lot of luck going over Jacksonville minus seven and a half. I'm just telling you right now, that's insane. I don't see it at all. You really have to believe this is the year with Lawrence. It's like, it's now year six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1806.571

Like, yeah, I'm not saying it's not going to happen with him, but I'm not betting that scenario. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

182.688

you're not going to look and we're going to guess the lines. We made our guesses and we'd go through every team and see and see what our instincts were. What do you think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1826.923

At least two of the home games. Tennessee, 3-14 last year. West and West, fourth place schedule. Cam Ward, we're assuming they take him first. Yeah. I don't know their offensive line situation, if it's much better than it was last year. I was trying to think, is this the safest bet to be the worst team in the league in the AFC next year? Tennessee. Is there any team you like less?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1865.465

No, I had. So initially I penciled in five and a half. And then after I did all the divisions for the AFC and I was like, Man, who's the worst team? We see this every year. There's a four and a half, there's a three and a half, and there's none of those in the AFC that I had. So I ended up with a four and a half. So we'll see. The answer is five and a half. Wow. Okay. Nailed me again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1895.381

Not only is it five and a half, it's up to minus 130.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1900.822

So if you're doing that, you're expecting Cam Ward to get drafted and be good right away. Right. And you're going to say like rookie Cam Ward is significantly better than Will Levis, which it's not inconceivable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1927.788

My favorite with that with you is when you then get mad at Will Levis, like this was his fault. Like you bet on him. It's like, I can't believe this Will Levis. It's like, you can't. No signs at all? He threw the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1952.345

Right, if you had to make a movie about it, that's what it would look like. Well, here's the thing. We only had the Jets at five and a half. Cleveland at five and a half, and Tennessee at five and a half so far. We have no four and a halves. Mm-hmm. So one of those three will be at four and a half by like June or July, because that's just how this shit goes. That's right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

1977.303

Mm. Okay. Going to the AFC West, which might be good for all we know. Mm-hmm. Kansas City, 15-2 last year. Playing the AFC South and the NFC East. So you're talking... Um, giants are going to suck. Three of those AFC South teams might suck. Houston might not be very good. Sorry. Your Dallas team might not be very good. And Washington and Philly would be the two hard games out of those eight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

20.449

And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, we launched Good Hang with Amy Poehler. It's doing great. You can get it as a video podcast on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2014.036

And, but they'll have the first place schedule. They're going to be in all the night games, but, um, that's about as good of a, is there a better division draw than AFC South NFC East, maybe West NFC West AFC South. That's pretty good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2032.312

So I went 12 and a half for this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2040.54

It's light. It's 11 and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2045.664

Do your spiel. Just do it. You do it every year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2089.331

Super Bowl 7-1 for them. Mahomes 8-1 MVP. Yeah. At the Mahomes layaway MVP bet plan, was that your idea or House's? I can't remember.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2104.193

I just do it. Just say bet that every year and it'll win three out of five times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2142.768

Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2311.155

Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

233.663

Yeah, we should have gone live. This should have been an event. It should have been like when the NFL releases the schedule. Right. We should have been the one announcing the Fando over-unders for each team. Trying to guess what they were. Yeah, we'll work on this. I think next year we can do an even bigger version of it. I know you go right from football to...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2396.115

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

251.431

just to a series of wagering on sports you don't really know that well other than basketball. I'm sure you made a shitload of preseason baseball bets, March Madness. Yeah. You got some golf coming. There's some weird tennis stuff happening. What's the dumbest thing you've bet on in the last six years?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2550.575

Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2643.071

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

289.918

All the parts of the world?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2894.147

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2924.225

. . . . . ., en P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P, the,pl實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . a in paid him to go away, and then went to the Steelers who completely quit on everybody in the last four weeks of the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

295.623

It's a continent? I don't know. Are they our 51st state?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

2986.926

And now you have Dayball and Shane basically trying to save their jobs, telling us, we don't want to take a rookie quarterback three because we won't be here when he starts being good. And now there's Wilson versus Russell. is Wilson versus Winston's nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3014.5

What was that? Yeah. I picked a four and a half for this. I think this is going to be our first four or three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

302.208

Were you able to bet on Stephen A. versus LeBron?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3028.45

Five and a half. You win again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3034.041

I might want to book that five and a half from people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3042.571

Division odds... Giants 20-1. Is that the biggest one we've had so far? Cleveland's 23-1. Dallas 7-1. Washington plus 250. Eagles minus 165. I don't mind that. Washington's a play. Washington's a play. I don't mind that one at all. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3069.076

I don't agree with that Giants number at all. In fact, I'm going to make my first like market down prediction. I think that's four and a half by the summer. Right. I don't think that stays there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

314.98

Stephen A., they started first take today. Two minute intro from the show credits of Molly and went to Stephen A. 17 straight minutes. And it was incredible, compelling TV. He's an artist. Was it really? I was really into it. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. He's really good. Yeah. I don't know where this goes, but I'll tell you this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3199.744

Is it higher? It is 10 and a half. That's bad. That's wrong. Well, I'll tell you this much. There's action on the under of all things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3217.244

Minus 140 under 10 and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3239.054

They lost both coordinators. Yeah. That's not nothing. Right. They had a horrible end to the season. Yep. And it's the Detroit Lions. They lose Carl Davis to your team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3254.687

They replaced him, though. They replaced him with a cornerback everybody likes. They did. Yeah. I don't know. And we haven't seen the draft yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3272.463

So you would bet the Lions plus 120 at over 10 and a half right now. Oh my God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3279.166

I really liked that one too. I almost, that line's so suspicious. I almost feel like we don't know something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3286.889

Like, what do they know that we don't know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3294.052

Dan Campbell has been deranged all off season. Minnesota was 14-3 last year. This is so hard. And they changed their quarterback from the great Sam Darnold to J.J. McCarthy, who we have not seen play NFL yet. Tough for schedule, second place. This is the biggest drop-off, 14-3, but I went 9.5 for them. I don't see how it can be in the 10s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3332.046

Eight and a half. Yes. That is plus 115 right now. You're really good at this. Guessing the over-unders. Your final destiny. This is it. You found the gimmick. We've been podcasting since 07. You figured it out. Unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

334.184

If you're going to do the who has more to lose sweepstakes, I'm going to say LeBron has more to lose. If this just gets worse and worse and worse. Interesting. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm not saying he has more to lose. I'm saying he's just more famous. Yeah. Stephen A. Like, this is great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3352.686

I think you've clinched. I think I'd have to like get all the rest ones just to tie you. That's it. What a, what a beating this was. Yeah. So that is a full fledged. We don't trust JJ McCarthy number. So that's the biggest drop off five and a half from 14 and a half, five and a half drop off and JJ McCarthy might be good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3374.757

Vikings. Dare I say a little, nobody believes in us. And there's still some Aaron Rodgers. 14-3 last year. A lot of the guys are still in this locker room. They went 14-3. Yeah. All right. Green Bay. They went 11-6 last year. Third place schedule. And I'll probably regret this, but I went 9.5. I did think about the 10.5. It's got to be 9.5. And it's 9.5.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3401.178

Plus 115 on the over. So they're minus 135 on the under.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3409.201

Yeah. So division odds now, Detroit plus 110, Green Bay plus 250, Bears plus 450, and Minnesota with the worst odds of anyone at plus 550. But I should have done that after we did the Bears.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3431.567

Maybe I can cheat. Well, I had eight and a half for them anyway. They're five and 12 last year. NFC East, AFC North. They spent a lot of money in the lines. They're going to have a high draft pick. And with the way the division's kind of fallen back to them a little bit, it seems like an eight and a half. What'd you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3477.173

Not touching that. Not touching Green Bay. That is a stay away. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3493.139

Two more. NFC South, Tampa Bay, 10 and 7. Feel good story. Playing the NFC West and the AFC East. So potentially, I don't really love anybody in the NFC West. And we might not love three of the four teams in the AFC East. So this is a nice little scenario for the South. And then, you know, they're bringing their receivers back, bringing the team back. It felt like a nine and a half to me, Sal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3537.809

I'm at the stage now where I'm bringing in the shortstop to pitch the ninth inning. He's throwing his knuckleball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3550.394

I'm going to make the Walton Goggins finding out that his friend had sex with everyone in Thailand face. Minus 125 action for the Bucs, FYI.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

356.263

Maybe that's how Stephen A. wins. He becomes the next president and he abolishes the NBA max contract. That'll be his first thing. Okay. NFL regular season win totals. So we're going to go by, you want to go alphabetically or you want to go by divisions?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3566.787

New Orleans. Oh, no, not New Orleans. Atlanta is next. So they're playing a second-place schedule, plus the NFC West, plus the AFC East, and they went 8-9 last year. Full year of Pennix. I put 8.5 for these guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3589.318

I don't know why you keep doing the round numbers, but I'm not going to question your process since you're beating me by six teams. Seven and a half is our answer. Wow, you won that one too. Motherfucker.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3606.077

I was feeling so good after my 27-5, but now I'm in shambles. No, you're good. It's such a good year last year. Then I lose the Super Bowl. I get killed, KC, and now my whole thing's falling apart. Maybe the under should be me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3627.153

I care about dumb shit like this. So it matters. New Orleans. God, are they going to be terrible? Five and 12 NFC West, AFC East and the third place schedule. And they're in cap hell. They brought back car with this weird, well, we're screwed anyway. How about we'll guarantee your money. They have the ninth pick in the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3655.189

New coach, but they had like the last pick of the coaches. It was like they went to go get a dog from the kennel and every other choice was gone. And they're like, we have this one left. Any interest? I went five and a half and it might be a win too high.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3675.227

Six for me. You hit it again. Really? You doing this round number thing is bullshit. There's been no round numbers the whole time. I'm just trying to do this correctly. You should try harder. This is like the most you've ever cheated. There are round numbers. I looked last year. Pick five and a half or six and a half. So I was like, I'll just take six. And it's like price is right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3699.627

You're just gaming the system.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3705.108

Well, it's six and a half this time. We haven't had a round number yet. Wait, is it six and a half or six? Yeah, it's six and a half. You won because you picked six because you cheated. Oh, okay. Oh, I see. And then last one is Carolina. Five and 12 last year somehow. I still can't believe I didn't win my, when I was in Boston that time. And I bet the adjusted under four and a half wins for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3730.18

And somehow Bryce Young came in and just smoked it. They ended up with five wins. I lost. I still, and the other one was the adjusted under on the pats, three and a half. And, and, uh, Joe Milton came in at the end. Joe Milton.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3749.513

Joe Mullen, the next state horse quarterback? Anyway, he came in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3761.599

Then at the car accident.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3769.662

I won't try to find out at the casino you went to. I went five and a half for the Panthers. I did too. Okay. The answer is six and a half. Jesus. What the hell?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3792.769

Divisions. Tampa, plus 135. Atlanta, plus 230. New Orleans, plus 480. And Carolina, action. Started out in the fourth slot, but now they're plus 410. People are banging the Panthers. What am I missing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3815.202

We, one of our locks that we hit was that they would have less than 30 wins, which they did. And then we had an NFC East first, uh, first South bet. I think just the top two teams in the NFC East almost beat the entire NFC South.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3839.467

I got to be honest. We've done 28 teams. I think my single favorite is New Orleans under six and a half so far. Why are they going to be good? What is good about them? What's the case?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

384.534

The total shot. Is that Steph's fault that it was Senate? Like, should he have retweeted the angle and said that it didn't actually go in?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3861.722

If we were to say who's going to have the worst record in the league next year, they would at least be one of the teams we batted around. NFC West. They're playing the NFC South and the AFC South. That's the best draw, right? Yeah, that's the best draw. I thought the NFC West was probably going to suck this year, but that made me rethink it. The Rams are in the one spot with the schedule.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3880.573

They were 10-7 last year. First place schedule on the one hand, but then playing the Souths kind of messed with my head a little bit. I went 10 and a half for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

39.77

You can also get it on the Amy Poehler Good Hang YouTube channel. Go check it out. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a Prestige TV podcast yesterday. We covered the studio, the first two episodes. People like the show. Me, Sean Fantasy, Joanna Robbins talked about that. I'm also gonna be there on Sunday night, White Lotus, episode seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3904.186

Minus 145. Listen. I think this is going to be ultimately good for me because I think my instincts will be the correct instincts. I do. I like them because of their schedule and because I don't think their division is going to be good. Yeah. Do you like Arizona, San Francisco, or Seattle this year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3943.498

Flipped up into Adams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3950.6

Yeah, I mean, one of the great things about this process is, especially after the draft, when we get to the summer, I'm sure we'll flip-flop on a bunch of these instincts. But I just think the Rams, best coach, they've had success. Stafford's kind of near the end. This seems like a pretty good division bet type of thing for me. Seattle, they were 10-7 last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3975.338

Same South versus South, second-place schedule, and I went 8.5 for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3983.537

I hit this one. Eight and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

3990.244

I did. Really? I won one. I'm remembering all of this for Guess the Lines this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4001.949

I don't know. I didn't like the Cooper Cup signing at all. There were so many bad stats about him getting open over the last five years. In 2020, he was open 90% of the time, and it was down to like 14. The thing with Darnold, though, he was 14-3 last year. I know. So now he's an eight-win quarterback. That's the only thing that makes me nervous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4019.384

But I want to see if they fix their offensive line completely through the draft. We'll see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4028.433

Arizona was eight, nine last year. And if Seattle's eight and a half with this South, South thing, I think they, I think Arizona has to be eight and a half. So that's what I picked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4041.766

I said seven, seven round number. It's higher. Eight and a half plus one on five. Well, at least I'm ending in a way with my fans can at least have some hope.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4057.084

You took out your starters. You're like Buffalo in week 17 and Joe Milton let you up. Plus 105. And then last but not least, San Francisco. who lost so many people. It's like a whole paragraph of all the people they lost. This is so tough. And yet they were six and 11 last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4074.474

That was the rebuilding year, but now they're in a rebuilding year and they're going to have to pay Purdy, but they are playing the South and the South. I said six and a half. Would you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4085.201

Okay. Wow. This is the biggest disparity we've had.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4096.26

How is this right? Ten and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

410.61

Yeah. Okay. Divisions. Let's do divisions. We'll start with the AFCs, Buffalo Bills. They went 13 and four. We're going to tell you the only things that we know that we did work on were what other two divisions each team is playing. Right. So the Buffalo Bills were 13 and four last year. Next year, they're playing the AFC North. Not awesome. NFC South, pretty good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4117.379

I thought this was like a blow it up or building air for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4121.763

Not the Rams? I'm going to tell you right now. I'm stunned by that. Yeah. San Francisco plus 155 Rams plus one 80 Seahawks plus four 90 Cardinals plus 500. So I have to bet this now, if I was four wins off, even though we don't know what's happening in the draft, that has to be an automatic bet for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4148.462

Also like, how do we know McCaffrey's even going to be remotely where he was? Exactly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4156.469

Well, that was really fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4162.811

I forgot to mention Mac Jones. The MVP is Lamar plus 450, Allen plus 550, Burrow plus 600.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4176.694

I hope that's not true. For the conference, they have the third best odds, nine to one. What am I missing? What's happening? I think it's way more likely they have a year from hell again and Shanahan is like out of there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4193.061

I didn't see anything that made me think that they're going to be awesome. I thought they lost a shitload of people. I mean, do we feel like they hit their drafts the last couple of years? Like, You know, they're trying to trade Ayuk as we speak, and I don't even think they can do that. Nobody wants to play there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4307.467

You hated that. That was the maddest I've ever seen you non-sports related.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4315.292

But I know it's going to happen. I know it's happening now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4319.934

No, I did not like it right away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

433.47

So I'm going to say that's about an average. It's a wash. Yeah, it's a wash.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4343.478

He set it up that this is what death is like. You don't know when it's coming and everything goes black. Bullshit. So my son, like five days ago, for spring break went to Portugal and Spain. Cause he's in this, he plays the upright bass and he's in this jazz band. So a bunch of the jazz people went to play in all these places.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4370.909

So they, my wife drives them like in the middle of the night to the airport. Cause they have like a six o'clock flight and then he's flying for two days straight. I wanted to read you all of our interactions with him since he's been gone. He's been gone since Friday night and WhatsApp because they don't have messages, anything. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4394.206

First of all, she only hears from him once on WhatsApp, then puts me on a text with them. Miss you guys too. That was, that was one. We are in Rondo and are about to perform in four minutes, second form of communication with him. Sent us one, two pictures of, you can see, of a tree and a mountain. Nice. My wife asks, how was the performance? No answer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4423.997

Sends a picture of the dog, misses you, nothing. Um, performances have been great. It's super nice out here. That was the third communication. Miss home though. T H O. Great picture. Um, need a photo of your face. My wife says nothing. Then silence again. Hey guys, super long day. We left at nine and just got back. My wife responds. That's your report. Anything else happening? Is it any fun?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4455.791

Sends us back this picture.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4458.873

I couldn't see. It's just a picture of him and his friend with the mouth behind them. And he says, it is fun. It's just a lot. Yeah. And that's it. Those have been all of our interactions with them. Has he tried to call us once? Only one picture of his face. And I have no idea if he's even alive in Spain right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

447.662

Yeah, I'm never... I'm going to go 5-27 next year. I'll never top 27-5.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4481.025

I was trying to, my wife and I were talking about, I was trying to remember, was I this much of a dick when I was 17? And I think the answer is probably yes, right? We didn't want to deal with our parents in any way, shape or form when we were 17.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4496.873

So maybe that's a little, yeah, but maybe we- It's hard to believe there was one moment where he's like, you know what? I'm going to send my parents an update. Just a long paragraph. Here's the best thing I ate. Just check in, say hi to grandma for me, whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4521.502

I was an international bass player. Yeah. How about that he went to Portugal and Spain, two countries I haven't been to yet. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4535.029

I didn't mean to mention Portugal and Spain in a non-soccer context.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4540.632

Anyway, that's Parent Corner. The other thing is, we're doing this live rewatchables tonight in Boston. And, uh, you know, my daughter goes to college here. So I left her a ticket and I'm like, you're gonna come tomorrow night. And she's like, I don't know. It's, uh, you know, it's a big night. Meaning like it's a big night where they go out. So she's 50, 50.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4562.094

Oh, I just, I might need to have more kids is what that's where I've really ended. But you know what? Those older guys, when they just like all of a sudden they have the second family and like, huh, that's weird. Maybe I just need to start again. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4584.334

She shows up by accident. 50-50. Might go, might not. Depends on what's going on tonight. You son of a bitch. You guys are doing good fellas tonight? No, we're doing Good Will Hunting tonight. Oh, Good Will Hunting. Yeah. Goodfellas is playing at the Low Coolidge Corner Film Festival. Oh, man. That's going to be so much fun. So much fun. All right, Sal. Congrats on absolutely kicking my ass.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4602.587

Thank you. If that was a baseball game, that would have been 17 to 3. What's your favorite MLB future?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

463.639

Those are crucial. We don't know what's happening in the draft. None of this stuff. Just like... And we're trying to guess... What do we think FanDuel thought would be the perfect over-under? Because the goal of this, when they're putting out these over-unders in March, how do we get the most action both ways on the over-under? Last year, Dallas, they put it a win too high.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4662.915

Oh, that sounds amazing. All right, check that out. That's on Against All Odds, right? Against All Odds. But you're also on the Mirror Gambling show, too. That's right. Yeah. All right. So there you go. How are you doing on March Madness, by the way? Are you winning?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4688.97

I've been following. I'm just doing a bit. I like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4692.714

I was on the thread we have with JJ and Raheem and house just, Oh, my bracket.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4712.814

But anyway, we did all right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4715.156

Good job, BU. Great to see you. Thanks to Kyle and Sarudin Gahal. As always, don't forget, you can watch us on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel or as a video podcast on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4751.519

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

4772.77

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

483.768

Everybody bet... Well, I'm sorry it was your team, but everybody bet the under. everybody kept that in the end there and they had to move it from 10 and a half to nine and a half, which was a really bad sign. So one of the things we're interested this year is snapshot of in March when this comes out and then how does it shift? They'll start putting action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

500.116

If people are banging the over, like if people start banging the Patriots over, they'll make it a minus one 40 minus one 45. So you'll get a sense of like, Oh, who is America really starting to get behind, which can either be a good thing or a bad thing. Right? So Buffalo, I went with 11.5. So, 11 and a half wins as the over-under. What'd you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

526.368

You have to do a .5, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

543.033

11 and a half. I knew this would be a new way for you to get bad. Meanwhile, you wouldn't guess the lines last year. And there's been a lot of talk about you and whether you've been cheating. This doesn't count. This doesn't count. Like, are you using PDs? What's going on over there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

565.51

Well, we should also mention, this is crucial too, minus 140 already. At least I'm in Boston, so I can do a live bet as we're talking. But minus 140 already, which makes me wonder, did they bump that at some point? But I think Miami's probably either the same or a little worse than last year. Jets, who knows? The Pats are the only one that you could say they'll definitely be better. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

58.394

We already have that one in the bank. It's the last one we were able to tape ahead of time because it looks like no screeners spurred. the last episode, the 90 minute one. So we're gonna be doing that live two Sundays from now. New rewatchables coming Monday night. We are doing, I'm in Boston right now. We're doing Good Will Hunting tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

592.707

As far as we can tell, Buffalo didn't get worse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

601.916

They're going to get the seven Bosa games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

604.939

Where he looks awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

614.482

Oh, I forgot to mention one variable that you have to factor in is the schedule. So we're doing this by how they finished last year. So AFC is Buffalo's first place scheduled next year. Yeah. They'll have a bunch of night games. So all that stuff, Miami eight, nine last year, AFC North NFC South second place schedule. And, uh, Whatever this is, I might make a live under bet right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

638.486

What do you have for this one? I have nine. Nine? Wow, you really went round numbers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

655.009

Yeah. Yeah. They're eight, nine. I might be low. I said seven and a half. I don't like the vibe of that Dolphins team at all. And the answer is eight and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

664.733

I'm going under. Yeah. That's a guaranteed under for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

670.996

You want to imitate JJ talking about this or should I do it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

676.883

I don't know, bro. Eight and a half is low. It's a must-win season for McDaniel. It's a must-win. He's got to win 10 games or is that keeping his job, bro?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

692.054

You think he goes under?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

695.276

All right. Eight and a half. Even money both ways. My prediction is that's going to be an under bet for a lot of people. All right. Jets are next. They were 5-12. Third place schedule next year. Justin Fields now a quarterback. Seventh pick in the draft. We'll see what they do with that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

713.098

The one thing that could affect this is if they take Shadur Sanders with the seventh pick and basically get nothing out of that first round pick because they already took Fields. So I'm going to say six and a half for these guys. What do you have? All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

752.853

I think that's too low. Don't you? New coach, Aaron Glenn. Fields, different look than Rodgers. than Rodgers, but not necessarily a worse luck. Seventh pick in the draft. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

76.785

So you can hear that as a podcast of the live show on Monday night. And then we're sticking around all weekend. Coolidge Corner, a place that I lived for a little bit once upon a time. We're doing a little Coolidge Corner Film Festival. They have a theater that's been there forever and they've actually taken care of it. And it's one of the best places to see movies in Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

774.497

Yeah, maybe the home Pats game, the home Dolphins game, maybe?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

783.341

Carolina, if it's home against Carolina?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

786.182

I think that's about fair. If it's home against New Orleans?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

790.244

And then maybe one other shit team? All right. All right, this is the most exciting one. The Patriots, 4-13. New coach. Just spent money all over the place on a bunch of different positions. They have the fourth pick in the draft. Seems like about a 50-50 chance they're getting Abdul Carter or Travis Hunter. Drake May year two. To say the coaching staff will be better is an understatement.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

811.135

And they're going to have a fourth place schedule and they get to play the NFC South. There's a lot of things lining up for them to be the Washington of this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

821.581

10 and a half, I'd be insulted. I think it should be 12 and a half. What do you have? I have seven and a half. Yeah, that's what I had too. And the answer is... Seven and a half. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

834.089

Minus 115 already. All right. So you're up 2-1-1 with me right now. Yeah. Does that go up? What if they get Abdul Carter or Chaunter in the draft? Does that go up? Well, you're very influential.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

857.433

I'm not. That one I'm not. I'm... I'll work. By the end of April, I'll be over the moon on the Diggs signing. Right now, I'm kind of still confused. Although it does seem like they can get out of it after a year. But the 32-year-old receiver coming off ACL surgery, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

890.128

Well, the question is, could you be better than that? And that's what we said with Washington last year, where they checked every box and both of us were, we both jumped on the over, but we kind of drew the line at could they be a playoff team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

916.396

It's the recipe that works every year. And the question is whether it's the Patriots or another crappy team making the jump. It's, Did you improve your coach? Do you have a QB? Is your schedule easy? If you have those three things, it becomes very realistic to go from four to 10 wins. We see it all the time. And I think they're a great candidate for this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

944.524

Did they greenlight that yet? Yeah. It's just about Drake May. It's not about the Patriots. It's we're just with it's like Truman Show. Remember that movie Truman Show? It's that with Drake May. We just we follow him around. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to do the rest of the divisions. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

965.417

We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA finals. One of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level, but all the historical legacy stuff. It's my favorite. You've heard me talk about it on the podcast many times. Speaking of finals, Michelob Ultra has given me the chance

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

97.177

So we're showing heist movies, Boston movies all day, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I think we did nine movies total. Me and Sean and Chris are going to Be there for a couple of them to talk afterwards. So if you're interested, I think there might be some tickets left. It's theringer.com slash events to go check that out. So this is fun. This is like an unexpected Christmas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Guess the 2025 NFL Over/Under Win Totals With Cousin Sal

985.086

to win tickets to the NBA Finals, which I hope Boston is a part of. Not only do they make a superior beer, they're also helping fans like you get closer to the game. Michelob Ultra, superior is worth playing for. Check out MichelobUltra.com slash NBA Finals to enter for a chance to win tickets. Michelob Ultra courtside NBA Finals, sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to U.S.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1022.096

You just stumbled into the answer. These next two months are about building back Zion up as a genuine asset and then trying to get out of that. Get out of that situation as fast as you can.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1035.29

I am. No matter what. To me, if he's healthy for two months, trade when the value's high. There are 11 losses behind Phoenix for the 10 seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1047.013

So there's no scenario where they catch fire, unfortunately. One of the things about trading McCollum is then you can play Jordan Hawkins more. It's weird. They're deep, but they also have a terrible record. They make no sense as a team of assets. Anyway, next one. I didn't know it was going to be today. What's today's date? January 22nd.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1070.197

I thought it was going to be after the Celtics game the next day when we celebrated the annual Lakers holiday, passive aggressive trade day, when some report comes out that LeBron and AD or just LeBron aren't happy with the roster. It happened today. It was January 22nd. I wish I had had FanDuel put odds with all the different days in January when it was going to happen, but it happened today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1092.126

LeBron and AD apparently really want them to improve the roster. They're not that happy with it. I don't know what the move is, KOC. When you're paying those two guys a hundred plus million dollars a year and you have Reeves, your roster's pretty good. And maybe look in the mirror a little bit. And I went through everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1112.657

If it's Rui and Vanderbilt and Vincent and two firsts, I don't even know what you're getting. Who's available? If it's a top 50 player, nobody wants to trade a top 50 player. So you're looking at people like Zach Levine. And if they got Zach Levine, I just don't think they're a contender in the West. They would have the same problems they have anywhere where they can't guard anybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1130.632

I would never, Reeves is a hang up for me. If somebody called about Reeves at 12 billion a year, it's like, yeah, I'm sure you do want Austin Reeves. Fuck off, hang up. I don't know what the move is for them. I don't know how they're a title contender. And I have some ideas zagging the other way. But what do you think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

121.59

Making up for it today with a special basketball podcast. Our old friend Kevin O'Connor is coming in. We're going to talk about a bunch of teams that are in trouble. We're going to talk about fake trades. What's realistic? What's not? Where are people like Jimmy Butler going? Could there be a surprise? The trade deadline is February 6th. We're breaking all of it down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1218.778

If I was a Laker fan, I would be losing my mind at this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1223.421

We're going to mortgage basically the next six years so we can fulfill the charade that we're a title contender? There's no chance against Oklahoma City.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1235.759

I wouldn't do it. I would zag the other way. And if Reeves is in a trade, they're just flat out stupid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1244.061

I have an AD idea. Okay. I think they should think about zagging the other way and trading AD. And, you know, it's a really interesting thing to bring up to Laker fans because I think they're grateful they won the title in 2020, but I also feel like they don't want to lose the entire decade trying to pretend that they can win a title with these two guys as their best players because they can't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1265.813

And you watch them. First of all, did you see that stat about how their record versus what the record actually is? Like how far the expected win rate or whatever that stat is? Which backs up what I've watched. They've lucked out with some schedule stuff. I don't think they're that good. And I think they know they're not that good. Whatever their record is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1285.639

They're going to play the Celtics tomorrow night. And LeBron will have his A game. And they're just not good enough defensively at the Celtics play well. Granted, the Celtics can go seven for 50 from three and get smoked in a second game back to back. But defensively, they're just not good enough. And I don't know if Walker Kessler is changing that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1316.165

And the Magic lost their two best players for most of the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1326.931

I just don't see it. I would not... give away the rest of the future just because LeBron wants a better team. Part of it is you insisted on the Anthony Davis trade. You guys won a title for it. You gave away all of these assets. You struck oil with Reeves. That was one of the luckiest things that could have happened to any team to get a guy. Was he undrafted or a second round?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1352.555

He was undrafted, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1356.538

Yeah. And then they get him on this crazy contract because he didn't go out and shop himself. So he's like $12 million a year. That's one of the best contracts in the league. So if you just look at those three things and the role players they have, you would think they would be better than they are, but can't guard anybody. Last team is Miami. So the Butler thing is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1378.17

this is about as bad of a player team situation as we've had in a while. It's also the NBA I grew up with where stars would just get mad at teams, stars miss planes. You know, even data going into the two thousands, this would happen with people like Vince Carter. I don't know what his trade value is anymore. And I don't think you probably do either. I don't know what he's worth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1398.045

I can't decide because he can opt in next year. He's such a headache. He's 35. You know they have to trade him. Why am I offering anything for him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

142.361

First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is 4 o'clock Pacific time. There's reasons for that, which I'll get to. Very excited to have Kevin O'Connor here. You might remember him from many, many, many years at The Ringer. He is now at Yahoo. We have not done a podcast during this basketball season. What better time, KOC, than fake trade season for us to reunite?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1437.982

If that's the trade, you're doing that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1442.226

Bradley Beal for Butler straight up, which would be just an insane trade for Miami to make. I don't know why they would take on an extra year of Bradley Beal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1462.972

This wasn't one of my fake trades. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1469.382

The part that has to be true is A, Beal would want to waive his no trade clause to go to Milwaukee, which I find hard to believe. B, Milwaukee would want Bradley Beal for this year and the next too. You just have to assume that that might be true. I don't think it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1486.051

The trade I came up with was Butler to the Suns, Beal to the Bucs. Miami gets Chris Middleton, Steven Adams from Houston, and Cam Whitmore from Houston. And Houston gets Brooke Lopez. And that actually works. So Houston would be taking on seven, eight million to turn Adams and Whitmore into Lopez, basically. And then all the contracts work. Bucks just get Beal? Bucks just get Beal, that's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1511.444

See, I'm saying no if I'm the Bucks. I think I am too. But I think when people talk about four-teamers, five-teamers, It's a trade like that, and I think a team like Houston has to be involved turning Adams and one of their younger, cheaper assets into a better center.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1623.762

That's good work, KFC. Here would be my counter. I don't understand why the Bulls have to get rid of Zach Levine. He's played really well this year. I actually think he's an asset. I don't want to keep him. We did the Ringer 100. I had him in the 30s. I watched him single-handedly beat the Knicks, the Celtics. The better the competition is, the more he goes up a level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1647.152

If I was Milwaukee and I could turn Chris Middleton or another contract into Zach Levine, I'm doing that in five seconds. He's way better than Bradley Beal. Plus, he plays. Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1679.557

And he has... And this year he has the ball a lot, which is like for the Lakers. He makes no sense because he's not going to have the ball nearly as much and he can't play defense. Right. So if you're trading for him, it has to be a situation like the Rockets won't do it. But he's somebody that makes a ton of sense for me if I'm the Rockets, even though he'd hurt a little defensively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1699.692

He's somebody in the last five minutes of a game can actually like match baskets and with whoever the best player on the other team is. I think that's his superpower. Not a lot of guys... Like, the Suns don't necessarily need that, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1711.739

But if you're talking about the Bucs, who already have Dame and Giannis, but you're improving the Middleton spot with him, basically, the way Middleton's been playing this year, like... I think about it. We're aligned, though. I think Levine's been good. I hate seeing him get thrown into these trades like he's not an asset. I think he's an asset.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1801.936

The only reason to trade him is if you feel like your team doctors who have spent a lot of time with him are like, sell high right now. This is it. He's going to get hurt in two months. That's the only reason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1826.902

I would keep him. I think he's going to be worth more, especially like next year, there'll only be two years left on his deal. They're going to be a playing team unless Philly can catch them. And I wouldn't want to play that team in a winner-take-all where all of a sudden it's a tie game with five minutes left and Zach Levine is doing some of the stuff we've seen him do this year. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1848.781

We're aligned on that. We're going to take a break. We're going to come back. Fake trade time. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. From the first whistle to the final drive, FanDuel, taking the NFL playoffs to the next level. Right now, new customers can bet $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if you win. That is $300 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet.

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An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1910.36

Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into, It makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1933.466

Visit amazon.com slash prime to get more out of whatever you're into. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome. And now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

195.46

Yes, of course. So, unfortunately, we had to take this a little late on Wednesday because I was flying back from Boston this morning. And then there was a Wi-Fi issue on the plane And I'm like, is this going to work out? Am I going to be able to do a podcast today? The Wi-Fi miraculously came back. And then I was on my iPad for hours making fake trades.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1958.522

With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com. Rated R. All right. I have some fake trades that I don't think will happen, but I thought would be fun to throw at you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1975.551

And then I want to hit a couple that I do think could happen, should happen, probably won't happen, but at least are realistic. Trade number one. Bradley Beal for Paul George straight up. Who says no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1993.773

Bradley Beal says no.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

1995.634

All right. Let's say he didn't have no trade clause. Okay. So Bradley Beal has two years left after this year. Paul George has three. The Sixers called Phoenix and said, we'll give you Paul George right now for Beal. And the sons are like, really? Okay. And they decided to do it. Beal has that connection with Embiid. Remember Embiid was pushing for him a couple of years ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

2.179

Coming up, it's fake trade season. Let's go. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here, and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sportsbook any way you want. Fun markets. Who have the most yards? Tons of same-game parlays. Offensive titties in the next drive. So much more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

2020.157

I think Phoenix blinks faster with a no than Philly in that trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

2041.629

I think Phoenix says no faster, but who knows? All right, next one. Three-teamer. Oh, this is... Miami gets Kevin Durant. Philly gets Jimmy Butler. Phoenix gets Joel Embiid in a 2029 first. And Philly gets a 2029 first. Philly's just out of the Embiid business. They turn Embiid in a 2029 first from Miami into Jimmy Butler. And they're just out. Never going to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

2085.008

It leads me to this question. Would Philly ever consider trading Embiid, A? B, would anyone consider trading for Embiid when he plays 40 games a year, max? Is he untradeable? Is he tradeable? I have no idea.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

2121.469

Can you imagine Josh Harris, who also owns Washington, who's playing for the NFC title? on Sunday and he gets a call about Sixers and he's just like, I don't even care. Just whatever. Just don't make any trades. I'll deal with that this summer. I just care about football. That's it. Sixers are a loss. Get them out of here. By the way, Bob Myers helped Washington with the football team, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

2143.373

He was on that advisory committee and he, and I just feel like he's looming with the Sixers thing. And I don't think I'm alone. There's been some Bob Myers, Philly buzz that I think has been building. Cause I think he had a good experience with Josh Harris. Have you heard this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think a couple of times the lady next to me was like, what's this guy doing? What is this trade machine that he has? But before we do that, a bunch of teams I want to hit, just big picture, that kind of relate to this in some ways. Biggest one, Dallas. I think Dallas is in real trouble now. This lively injury, it's a foot injury, and they're saying out two to three months.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Then when the, whenever the NBA is going to do that, I think Bob Myers is lurking in general, but I would not, If there is a fall guy, which we talked about earlier, it's going to be Nick Nurse and Daryl Morey. Unfortunately, I think the fact that Bob Myers is... Yeah, maybe it's both. One thing that Bob Myers does... builds the culture.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's what he was famous for, the Warriors, and you bring him into Philly. So if it gets really bad, I just wouldn't be surprised.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Or would he try to make it work in the bead? I think he's a, how do we get this to a better place all the way around guy before we decide to blow this up, would be my guess. That's what I'm thinking too, yeah. Okay. So we both think Embiid, nothing happens until this summer. I think more because the rest of the league would be like, yeah, cool. Embiid, no thanks. Third trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

22.091

It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Do we think Brandon Ingram has any value? Not really. Very little. Making like 33, something like that, but it's expiring.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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If you're Detroit, would you rather have Ingram for one year or Tobias Harris for two?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I think that's the right answer. All right, so I'm going to get rid of them in that trade. And I'm going to knock it down to, is there something with San Antonio and McCollum? Sorry, CJ, I threw you into a trade. McCollum, San Antonio has Trey Jones expiring. Zach Collins, this year, next year, like $16 million.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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They have a little wiggle room where they could actually make a trade and take a bigger salary back. So there's ways to finagle it where they're basically just giving up an expiring Collins, who is a guy next year they could give up. They have a million picks. I want to see the Spurs add one or two guys, and that's going to be a recurring theme for the rest of my fake trades.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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There's another version of this where it could be McCollum and Ingram together. going from New Orleans to San Antonio, and then New Orleans gets Jones, Collins, Harrison Barnes expiring, and at least one 2025 first. I want to see San Antonio do something. If you have a top seven player, you can't pretend you don't have a top seven player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you have tradable stuff and a million picks, what's wrong with at least tweaking it and going for it a little bit?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's impossible to go under 500 in Wembley. What's their record now? 19 and 22. 19 and 22. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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But so you're saying there's right now there's one, two, three, four, five, six. Seven teams they're definitely not catching from a loss standpoint, plus Philly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And as I've said a million times, I never trust feet injuries. I always feel like they're not being honest about how long the timetable is because I'm not sure they know. And I always go worst case scenario. Three months takes us into the playoffs. It takes us into round one. And on top of it, Lucas hurt. And I just, I thought Dallas was going to be there in the end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Okay. Well, I have another Spurs trade for you. Okay. This will never happen. None of these four trades I did, none of them are happening. This is just a fun exercise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Well, Zion's coming later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is the official blow it up trade for Philly. Where San Antonio gets Paul George, Kyle Lowry, and Tyrese Maxey. Wow. Philly gets Barnes, Zach Collins, Jones, Kelvin Johnson, CP3, And a slew of firsts, like just the San Antonio, like six firsts, seven firsts, whatever you do. And basically Philly just gets out of this whole thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They do the super tank and they sell high on Maxi knowing they have McCain. This will never happen. I just want to do it as a thought experiment.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. San Antonio overpays. They pay 140 cents on the dollar, 170 cents on the dollar with all the extra picks they have, just with the end game being Maxi, Castle, Wemby, Vassell, and this is our team going forward. It'll never happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Would you still have Shepard over Castle with that pick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Who do you have number one in a redraft now? Just throw all the teams out. Who do you think the best asset is?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Why do you think he hasn't been better in Houston?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Yeah. I kept all my stock. I haven't sold an ounce of Reed Shepard stock, but I love Castle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would have taken Castle first heading into the draft. I would take him first now. I love how competitive he is. I feel like he's getting better. I think physically in like four years, I think he's just going to be like just a beast. I can't wait to see how he grows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is the first time I got worried.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're going to luck out at some point. There's going to be a team going sideways that wants to rebuild and trades their expensive point guard. You know, could it three weeks ago, you could have said maybe it's Sacramento, but they kind of righted the ship a little bit, but at some point there's going to be somebody with some leverage and a team that is ready to, uh, to blow it up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Anyway, that trade's never happening. So don't aggregate it. Um, did you have a fake trade that's never happening, but you still were enchanted by it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Put them in the, you're saying a chance. All right. Let's move into trades. We could actually see happening, even though if they probably won, I'll get you. What's your first one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Simons has some Orlando connections, I think. Yes, he's from Florida. He's always been rumored as a possible magic thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think what we've seen the last five, six games, which I've been monitoring very closely, plus the Billups quotes too. Billups seems like really fired up about him all of a sudden, but stuff's clicking. Things are happening. They're starting to move the team toward him. They're also in the tanking situation. So it's perfect. Just let him make his mistakes. But I'm with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They probably, Simon's probably needs to go for the scoop piece. I don't know what he's worth. So if you're saying like Orlando gives up a first, that's going to be a bottom half of the first round first, unless it's this year's draft because their record isn't nearly as good as it would have been because of all the injuries. So they own their own first the next six years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would probably want this year's first from them if I traded Simons.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because going forward, they're probably going to be a top eight or nine team. So, all right, that's a fun one. My first one. I want to get Cam Johnson, who's been floated around a lot. Brooklyn clearly wants to trade him. I've decided Detroit should be the team that gets him. And Detroit has the Tim Hardaway expiring. They have a weird situation with their pick because New York owns their pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So it's like protected and it just keeps rolling over. But then you can't trade 2025 or 26 because eventually it'll be realized in 27. So I was thinking, I wonder how the Knicks would help them out. and remove the protections from the pick so that Detroit could trade this year's pick, try to get Cam Johnson and maybe that other Knicks pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Then I started thinking, you don't see teams do this as much, but what if the Knicks traded Mitchell Robinson to Detroit as part of the deal? And as part of the deal, they got this giant trade exception and they forfeited their rights to the Detroit first. And they got Dayron Sharp back from the Nets. And they just got a backup center making $10 million less than Robinson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then the Nets would be like, we'll give you D'Angelo Russell too. He's available. And the Knicks are going, no thanks. But is there something there where It could be a three team or not a two. The Knicks could get something out of it, cut some salary, create an exception. Maybe it's just Cam Johnson for Tim Hardaway in a pick. And it's a later pick. But is there something there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because I feel like there is. I would like the Pistons. I want to see them get better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Detroit could actually take it because... To Detroit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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I did it in the trade machine, and it all worked because there's trade exception stuff, too. Anyway, it could just be Cam Johnson and Hardaway in a pick, and we could make it easier because that works, too. I mean, I'm intrigued.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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If I were the Knicks, I'd be thinking of a way to dump Mitchell Robinson in a trade and get a cheaper big back and try to get some cap space, some apron relief, some luxury tax relief, and some flexibility with some sort of trade exception would be my dream scenario.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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I just, if I'm Utah, why do I have to trade Kessler if I'm Utah? Is what I keep coming back to every time I see his name in trade rumors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Why am I trading this guy? Yeah, I'm sure you do want him. He's a young guy and a super cheap contract and he produces and he protects the rim. Why do I have to trade him? Like they're probably, I would assume they're going to try to be good next year or try to be better. How many years in a row can you throw away? Yeah, there's something there. I think the Knicks have to think that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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How can they package stuff?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Oh, you think they're throwing away another one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3078.951

Where's the Bantz and the Brockton rankings right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3084.586

No, Hagler's got to be one, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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I need to take a break before I throw this next trade at you, so we're taking a quick break. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven-layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat. In this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food, no matter what you're craving.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

314.215

Well, they're screwed in this respect. Right now, they're seventh in the West. They're 23-20. Doesn't look like Luka's coming back until the All-Star break. There's teams that are just settled in way ahead of them now. The top four, Oklahoma, Houston, Memphis, Denver. I just don't think they're catching any of those teams, especially with the way Denver's playing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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What if San Antonio traded for Jordan Poole and Jonas Valanciunas? and gave up Jones and Collins and a first round pick and kind of dabbled in getting better, but didn't really do it and didn't really give up anything. And if you're Washington, you're like, this is great. Now we got rid of the one guy who can actually win games for us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Um, we got rid of a center that keeps getting mentioned in these trade, but we, we know what happens with these centers. They always end up going for second round picks. Nobody gives up a first round pick for the $9 million. Pretty good center. Um, But if you're San Antonio and you could add just Jordan Poole and Valanchunas for nothing, like basically nothing, why wouldn't you do that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3307.373

What if 2022 finals, Jordan Poole is really Jordan Poole and Draymond Green just punched it out of him for two years. I think he's worth taking our, it's this year and the next two on his contract. He's overpaid. There's no question. But if you're San Antonio, what do you care? You're not spending that much money anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So now you're looking at, I don't have home court advantage any round. I don't know when Lively's coming back. They also made a lot of trades already. They don't have like a shitload of assets. You know, they've already made a lot of their moves and they would have to dip into the clay PJ Washington, like that kind of group to improve with their need to improve.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Legitimately good this year. I actually like watching them on the wizards this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3346.262

Well, you can tell who's not watching the wizards when people are like, what if they can get Kyle Kuzma? And it's like, you obviously haven't watched a wizards game this year. He's been one of the worst players of the week. Nobody wants Kyle Kuzma.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3419.751

I still think you want to be competitive in a real way now, which is what Preston did with OKC the last couple years, right? Yes. Just because he lucked out in a bunch of different ways. But his skill as a GM, but also guys blossoming maybe faster than he thought. But all that stuff was good for them. Those games that OKC played the last two years led to this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think if you're San Antonio, you want to start thinking that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Can this year and next year lead to two years from now where a 60-win team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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They're tough at the end of games. They have the same problem Houston has, where it's, you know, if he's not getting the ball in the right spots, it's really, or Vassell is really the only other one I kind of trust with the ball. CP's too old now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I mean, at least I feel like he can get the shot that he wants. I don't know if it's going in. But it's really hard for them to create offense down the stretch. And Jordan Poole, no issues creating his own shot. Jordan Poole, no issues. So we're aligned on that one. I would love to see them do something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

349.578

So I'm sure their game plan is just going to be, we're probably going to be in that seven to 10 range. Let's hope lively comes back. Let's hope Luca gets going. We'll be there in the end, but pretty tough, man. If you're in those playing games and then you're on the road every round and We haven't really seen a lot of success with that recipe, KOC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3490.777

Do your Zion one. You must have a Zion to the Spurs one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3498.738

I'm all in. I mean, there's multiple ways that could go. I don't know how many picks would have to be involved, but I think putting Zion... I talked about this a couple weeks ago. Rolling the dice with Zion, with that team, with the spotlight of being Wembley's teammate, different organization, a lot of history, titles, Tim Duncan sitting there courtside every once in a while. I would just...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3519.008

Do it. Can I give you a three-way of just kind of, it's like a Yankee swap in Christmas? Sure. Milwaukee gets Tobias Harris, making $25.3 million this year on the books for next year too. Minnesota gets Chris Middleton, $31.7 million. Detroit gets Julius Randolph, $33.1 million. This actually works in the trade machine. So Detroit's taking...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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almost $8 million extra salary to quote unquote upgrade from Harris to Randall, maybe for this year, maybe this year and next year. If you opt in Minnesota saving a little money and getting rid of the Julius Randall issue, that's kind of haunted them all season, even though I think he's a good basketball player, just doesn't make sense for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So they would say 1.6 million, which with the tax becomes like 20 million or some crazy number and just kind of people passing stuff around. kind of like it. And Milwaukee's saving money. But I kind of like the idea of Randall on Detroit because even Monday, everyone was going nuts about Cade. Cade had 10 turnovers in that game. He has the ball all the time. He kind of needs one more person.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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So you don't want Randall anywhere. Is there a team you want, Randall? Brooklyn? Brooklyn? So you think he's become a good stats, bad team guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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I like saving money if I'm Milwaukee, and I like saving a little money if I'm Minnesota and getting rid of the Randall piece. And for Detroit, I think the bet would just be Randall was 24-10 and was an all-NBA forward a couple times for the Knicks and got put in one of the worst possible situations in Minnesota for him as a basketball player, where it just doesn't make sense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Maybe there's an actual asset here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Oh, it's definitely partly his fault because he doesn't know how to play any other way. But that's the thing. It's like, well, maybe on a different team, there's something more here. I would think about it. But I also think Detroit probably has better moves. I like Cam Johnson for them more than Randall. But Randall's not, to me, he's not a sunk cost. Beal is a sunk cost to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't see a scenario where he's worth that money ever again. Randall, I'm not positive. I'm sure you do too. I know some Knicks fans who still swear by Randall and were like, guy's getting a bad rap. He was really good for us. Those people are out there. Then there's other Knicks fans who can't stand him. Give me a trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he makes way less money than Nurkic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3723.925

Portland probably has to throw something else in there to make this salary.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

3728.428

Nurkic for Williams. Oh, yeah, it does. I mean, I would do it just to get off the Nurkic money next year and save the luxury tax. Nurkic is... I don't know if... He's not the worst contract in the league, but when you think about... He's one of the most untradeable, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Yeah. It was hilarious earlier in the year when the Suns fans were thinking that they could turn Nurkic into Vucevic somehow. It's like, what planet are you on? Nurkic has been awful. Nobody wants Nurkic. Now they traded for Nick Richards and he doesn't play at all. So... I would do that for both teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Cause Nurkic had, the only thing is if you're trading a center, if I'm Portland, do I want to get a center back? Is it worth it just to get a random pick? Is there a way to make that a three-way deal where Nurkic goes somewhere else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I have one more big trade, so give me one more from you before I do my big one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

388.025

Danny Chow wrote about it for us. It's the most improbable relationship we've had in the NBA this decade. Jokic and Westbrook somehow like joining forces in a positive way. I don't understand it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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I don't like it. And I'll tell you why. I think if that team loses in the playoffs, it's going to be because of their inability to guard wings. Right? Cam Johnson's not helping me with that. So if I'm using my last trade chip, and I agree, their shooting's great. That always helps. But I don't think he's playing crunch time for them because now I have Garland out there and Cam Johnson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Like if I'm playing Tatum and Brown, who's guarding Tatum and Brown if I'm playing those guys together? So I feel like if they're going to do a trade like that and go into the major attacks, I need somebody who can potentially guard Jason Tatum in the last five minutes of a game six in Boston. And I don't think it's Cam Johnson. That would be my count.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're playing really well. Like, I guess that's my other question with them is, like, they seem like they all love playing with each other and they're having a great season. Like, sometimes continuity is the move, right? Mm-hmm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

4013.766

Maybe it's easy to defend Jalen Brown lately.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

4016.747

Hey, he's going to try that fall away again from the foul line. That would be great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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But now I have two guys I can pick on. I'm using Cam Johnson's guy to set the screen for Garland. And it's like a feast now. Could be. It's an interesting one because on the other hand, you could say, well, we're just going to outscore everybody. Now we have Cam Johnson. We're scoring 120 points a game and we'll figure out how to get some stops.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'd be really scared to do that much if I was Cleveland because it seems like one of the few teams we have right now that actually really likes playing with each other. How many teams when you watch these games, how many teams actually seem like they all like each other? It's less than five.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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They're the number one version of that.

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Boston really likes each other, even though they're not playing that well. I'd put them on that list.

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I think Boston's bored right now. No question. Do you have another one? Because I have one big one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. It's an Anthony Davis trade. The thinking is we've gone as far as we can go. We've done everything we could for you, LeBron. You've been here since 2018. We won a title together. We went and got your guy, Anthony Davis. We drafted your son and gave him a no-cut contract.

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Every time you've pushed us to do something, we've done it, including the Russell Westbrook trade, which you were hands off after that happened. We've taken this as far as we can go. And we're not going to mortgage any more of the future for this because for the first time ever, the Clippers have a better arena than us. And probably a better team. And there's something cool happening with them.

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And we're going to get back your buddy Draymond Green. Schroeder's expiring, Kaminga, Jackson Davis, Golden State's 25 and 27 firsts, and a 20, 2029 pick swap. That's LA's call. We're cashing in. What do you think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're getting Draymond, Schroeder, Kaminga. They get to roll dice to them. Jackson Davis. And if you're the Warriors, you still have enough left and you're going to build around Davis and Curry going down the stretch and you could probably get creative with some other moves. It's kind of fun.

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All right, so let's just say that this year's number one, which would be in the middle of the draft, and a 27 unprotected first. So now I don't think the Lakers do it, though.

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I think the only team... that you could talk yourself into this being a realistic scenario as the Lakers. Because Draymond gets to live in Los Angeles and play with LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Draymond might be like, this sounds great. I've always wanted to be on the Lakers. Let's do it. I also think it's way harder to find an Anthony Davis trade that makes sense than people realize. Because I see, I have people in my life, it's time to trade Davis. It's like, where? Like you're not trading me Houston. They can't even trade Shangoon this year. Like it would have to be like this summer.

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Right. And at that point, LeBron's 41. And, you know, people probably know you go around the league. You would have said in the past, oh, that maybe they get Carl Anthony Towns and some picks for him. But Carl Anthony Towns is playing great.

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And you go around the league, I think it's really hard to find the right trade for him that he'd be excited about to put him on a team that could actually win a title. Could it be Oklahoma City? No. They're not mortgaging everything for Davis when they have Shea's big contract coming up and they got to pay Jalen Williams soon. They're going to have to play Chet Holmgren soon.

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And they're not trading Chet for him. So you go through all the teams and I think it's way harder to figure out. I even was like, oh, Orlando will be a good one. Go look at their contracts. What's the Orlando trade? They can barely even match all the contracts to get to where AD is. So I go and say it was the only one that made sense.

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The problem is like the way the league is now with these different rules, it's really hard to make like a five for one, right? You need that one awesome $28 million contract that you can put in a trade like that. And they just don't have it. So they could put, you know, they could put, you said, what'd you say, Cole Anthony?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm not, not sure if he has 25 this year. That is pretty high. Yeah. 80, 80 is 42, $43.2 million.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is Cerruti on this zoom or no? Carter has a trade description. Cerruti, pop on for a second. Let's talk this out. What's up, guys? You knew this was coming.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think you'd have to do four unprotected firsts. Probably throw in the Denver first that you have that rolls over and then maybe a swap. How many picks is that, KOC?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can I pause button you right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You'd have a starting front line of 80. No, hello. And France, the timeline is like now when all those guys come back, I don't want to play that team. You're right. See that team in a playoff series. The timeline is this year. If you do that, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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KOC, this is the part where I remind you that the Knicks traded five first-round picks for Mikael Bridges.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but here's the flip side of this is why it was stupid to give up on Denver a month ago. If you have one of the best six players in the league, you just have to be taken seriously in the playoffs. So the question for me is, Can he get back to the right shape? When can Lively come back? Can they sneak out? Like, if they're playing Houston in round one at 2-7, they could beat Houston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They have Shengdun and a bunch of stuff and go get them in July.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're jumping the line and grabbing them now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It would be a better case if you were like... I'm not sure we should trade for Anthony Davis, who was super injury prone during the year that Palo and Franz both suffered the exact same injury and Mo Vonder got hurt and Suggs got hurt. We do not want to bring our karma to Anthony Davis.

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Yeah, what's Anthony Davis' oblique situation? Is it okay? Oh my God. He just meets those guys and he like strains it. Orlando is the only other one. I went through everybody else. I just, you know, there's like Sacramento. If you could do like a Sabonis Davis like that. But I don't know where that gets either team. You know, I think it's Orlando.

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I will say this. That trade I laid out. if that actually happened, would be one of the most fun trade moments of the 21st century. There's so much going on in that trade in all different directions that it just feels like we would talk about that for 10 straight days. Thanks to Rudy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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KOC, any last trades before we go?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I know, but how many contenders, teams that actually have a chance to win the title are a realistic option for a 40-year-old guy making $50 million a year with no trade clause? I can't find a single team. Even if you said like, oh, Cleveland, he wants to come back home. It's like, if I'm Cleveland, do I want to? That's a pretty aggressive reshaking of the roster. I wouldn't do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know if Houston has another gear. So I'm sure they're not totally panicking yet, but... It's not great. You know, and you think like Lucas 26 now, they made the finals last year. They really went all in on this season and Oklahoma City kind of took their spot. But yeah, I'm not, I'm not a full level panic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Well, also, like, you have such a good thing. Now you're bringing somebody who, you know, the two generations of guys in the league like Revere. It's really hard for him to be like, all right, just set some picks and hit a couple corner threes for us like he's going to have the ball. Um, I don't know what the team is for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, and I don't, I don't, I don't think he wants to leave LA anyway. So it's not realistic. Davis as a trade is more realistic to me, but, um, I just don't, the Lakers organization, I just, I don't understand why they kowtow to these guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now the Lakers are taking Beal. I don't want to turn LeBron into Beal. No, thank you. Also, if you're the Lakers and you trade LeBron, all of a sudden your games, if you're going to actually rebuild Or you're going to blow it up or whatever. People go to the games to see LeBron. He's one of the greatest players in the history of the league. That's still a draw.

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And they're still in this mix where they seem relevant. People who don't actually watch basketball that much think they're still a contender. And there's an illusion of competitiveness that is... To me, not real, but you at least have that. Once you start blowing this up, now you're where you were in the mid-2010s.

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He's not close to being the same guy that he used to be.

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But LeBron doesn't play defense anymore. I don't understand how anyone could put him in the top 12 to 15 at this point. So you don't have him up there? I don't. I don't. I would have him in the top 25. But I think it's really hard to beat good teams When you have multiple holes on defense, like they have, I think that's a fair statement.

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Like when they have, they're playing Reeves and connect and LeBron all at the same time. It's like, you can't play defense that way. So, and I'm not, what position is the perfect position for him? Ideally, right? It's the four.

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And then you have really playing with them. Really, you want to have perimeter guys and you want shooting. But that would mean LeBron would have to guard bigger guys and rebound more and step up on that. And it just doesn't seem like he has enough in the tank to do that anymore. So they're in a weird conundrum with him because he gets his stats. You can catch the right night. He looks great.

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But I don't see it night to night. And we get to the playoffs. It's every other game. You know, so if, like, if I was the Lakers advisor, would either of us say, like, you guys have a chance to make the finals with this team? You're one move away? I don't think they are.

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I don't like the fact that they're not going to have home court any round, every round. And I also don't know what the trade move is. So next one is Philly. who is borderline shut it down territory, but you also look at the East and it's like, yeah, they could make the playing game. And what if they have those guys in mid-April and they're all healthy?

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You would need so much luck. You'd need an OKC injury. You'd need something weird to happen. You'd have to go down and there would have to be a dumb thing that happened with...

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Yeah. It's tough when you win the title, you go one of two ways. You can either come out the next season, like a bat out of hell, or you just assume you could turn it on anytime you want. And they've, they started out one way and I think they've settled into the other way where it's like, we're, we're fine. We're fine. I don't like that.

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They don't have home court in the last two rounds, the way this is shaken out though. I don't think that's nothing, you know, it's all fine until it's game six at home with a game seven in the other place, you're down three, two for the series and you fall behind by like nine in the second quarter. And the fans are like, Oh my God, like our season might, We'll see.

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I'd like to see them have one streak, KOC, because I think that's what separates the real teams from everybody else. These teams that could just rip off 11 straight, 12 straight. Last year, they were a 25-game winning streak threat for every month of the season, and this year they can't play five good games in a row. Who worries you most besides Cleveland in the East? Still Milwaukee? Yeah.

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Milwaukee always because Giannis. Orlando a little bit because of the defense. I'm still like Orlando. I'm not just saying this to make Cerruti's night. Orlando's just kind of hanging out over there with this crazy defense.

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And I don't really know what the answer is, but the big thing is their first pick is top six protected, which everybody's been talking about all week. And I thought about how OKC gets that pick, right? If it's like seventh in a really good draft, then I'm sure you've become fascinated by. This is the Sam Presti revenge on Daryl Morey. The James Harden trade, 2012, right?

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The defense scares me because this Celtics team can look really clumsy and really static, and the toilet ball offense can go into full effect. And with all those guys they have, they have just guys to throw at Tatum and Brown. And I don't like the way the guards on the Celtics have played for two months. We're taping this before I go to the Clipper game tonight.

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and I'm going to the Laker game tomorrow night, I really want to see it in person. Like, are these guys, do they look different athletically? Is this just a funk that's going on? So I guess we'll find out.

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And the Knicks, obviously... I wouldn't look forward to seeing them in a series either because they have good basketball players. And Brunson's really good. And Towns has been playing great. So, you know, I do think when you play that team for two weeks, a little easier to figure out. But, you know, the East is way better.

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You think last year was like a walk in the park, which wasn't their fault, but that's what it was. This year, a little different. Milwaukee, we'll see if they make one more move, too. The team they have right now, I wouldn't be afraid of, but they're one move away from me being more afraid, right? If they were to get Levine, That would be scary because he kills the Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That would be one of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, KFC, good to see you again. You can follow his podcast, subscribe, listen to it, and you can read him on Yahoo as well. Great to see you. Great to see you too, Bill. Have a good night. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to KOC. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I will be back tomorrow night with yet another podcast. We're going heavy on the football tomorrow, as you would probably expect. See you in 24 hours. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it became this thing that became this curse over OKC. And they never got to the finals. And Darryl kind of made his career in a lot of ways. The flip side of this, OKC gets this pick because Philly has to dump Al Horford, right? And now this pick is paralyzing Philly with their decisions because...

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you maybe want to just throw away the season and yet you can, if Embiid is going to be healthy in two weeks. So what do you do if you're Philly?

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Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.

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No, but I'm saying is, would Tobias Harris listen to this and be like, yo, I've been better than Paul George. At least I played him.

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There's no way they're going to be the seven or the eight seed. they're going to be nine or 10, but they could still sneak in because they'd have to win two playing games.

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And it's going to be either Nurse or Daryl. And I don't know which one it's going to be, but we're very close at this point.

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No, they don't seem like they... We've seen this happen over the course of the NBA history. Don Nelson was a great coach. He took over the Ewing Knicks at one point in the mid-90s. And I think he lasted like 45 games. It just didn't work. I don't know if it's that bad for them.

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But when you don't have two of your best three guys basically never playing, you know, they had this huge stretch last week. It was like four and five against all good teams. And Embiid missed all the games. And then they were like, he's probably out at least another week. If you look at their schedule, any game where he would come back, it's a good team.

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There's always like a Boston or a Cleveland. There's somebody on there. And I don't think he's going to come back until he's healthy. I don't think he wants to come back at his ass kick. So I don't know if you're Nick Nurse, what do you do on that? But the Paul George piece is the shocking thing. I guess we should have known he's been in the league a while that it was possible, but I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He was always hit or miss, but he hit and he's not hitting anymore. There's it's more misses or I forgot you were out there than hits.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did a Rewatchables mailbag. I had a great time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Who do you think is the most relieved? Orlando? The Clippers? I wonder who else would have been in the mix on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Would you use McCain, who's out for the year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Long-term, McCain-Maxie is your backcourt? Is that a backcourt that makes sense to you from a basketball standpoint?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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I have Paul George coming up later when we get to the fake trade section of this podcast because it's a fascinating topic. So we agree, Philly's not shutting it down. They still have a chance to be a 9 or a 10 seed. If they can get all those guys healthy for two months, that's still the plan. And if I'm Daryl Morey, like that's a better chance than keeping my fingers crossed in the lottery. Okay.

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Next one. New Orleans is in what the fuck land where they suck. But now that all their guys are back, they're actually like pretty solid and really talented. And Trey Murphy's been playing great. And they might be too talented to be a full tank team. I'll have Brooklyn and teams like that. They have some good trade assets. Ingram as an expiring is hurt right now. Zion year to year.

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You can get out CJ McCollum overpriced, but reasonable to, for somebody who needs a scoring something. And then I guess Murray, that roster doesn't really make sense. I don't even know what the move is. What do they do? What do you do if you're running new Orleans?

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See, now he's going to be upset at me again because he thinks I always throw him in trade rumors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Especially now that he's hurt. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Fake-Trade Fiesta With Kevin O’Connor

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Thanks to everybody who sent in emails. We came up with new categories, couple theme months, slightly tweaked the structure of the show. Had some laughs. It was me and Chris Ryan and producer Craig Horlbeck. If you want to watch that, it is on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. If you want to watch anything from this podcast, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We did not do a podcast Tuesday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Welcome to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. So I went to the Lakers game last night. It was my first Luka Doncic in-person experience. I got to see some of the number 77 jerseys. Did I look around and wonder, are there more 77s than 23s in the audience? I might've looked at a couple sections and wondered about it, but something cool really happened during the game.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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But the buzz in the arena, And I've been going to Laker games. I moved here in November 2002. The only other time I felt it at a Laker game like that was when Kobe was playing. And I remember the first time I moved to LA in mid-November and I went to a Laker game maybe two weeks later. Somebody brought me. I'd never been to a Laker game before.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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They have to get to year two, not the Browns. Correct. The people making the pick have to get to year two.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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So we're checking a bunch of different boxes that make the NFL draft and the NBA draft so much fun, right? Yes. There's desperation. You have decision makers like, I might not be here in a year. What's my big swing? Well, we have no salary cap space. I have the second pick in the draft. Nobody's really going to probably trade up for this. And even if they do, I won't have a quarterback.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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We're going 6-11, 7-10 next year. See that. You have the Miles Garrett piece who is going to leave, get a trade. Yep. Something happened. He gave that one interview where they asked him, are you comfortable with what's going to happen to quarterback? And he's like, oh, yes, I am. I was like, oh, what is it? Why is he comfortable now? There's no free agent.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Russell Wilson's not making him comfortable. I wouldn't flag that one. Then you have Sanders playing footsie on social media with the top Indians prospect, which I thought was notable. You had the dad... who if his son goes second in the NFL draft, it's more money, it's more prestige, all that stuff.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Yeah, and as people listen to this, they're going to be like, well, of course Simmons wants him to go second because that's going to push out the two best guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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You know, grew up going to Celtic games, East Coast my whole life. Just had always hated the Lakers, hated the Showtime, never really understood it. And... I go to this game and the thing that jumped out to me, it was Kobe and Shaq. It was, you know, there was right after they'd won the three Pete, they lose the meadow three season, but it's Kobe and Shaq. It's, typical really good home game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Well, to be fair, this started in Cleveland. Like there's people that cover the team. There's people who follow the team. And they're just kind of reading the tea leaves. And it's for a lot of the reasons you mentioned. It's really the only chance for them to get a quarterback who might make it.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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And this is the most fun part of the stretch for the draft where you have 50-50 odds usually with a quarterback this high, right? This might be 40-60. But you start looking hard at the 40. You're like, well, Stefanski. Well, we have a good foundation around him. Well, we have no chance to get a quarterback. What if we can turn him into something? Like, you know, Rosillo has a theory.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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He would just take a quarterback every year in the first round, I think. Because it's like, let's just keep throwing the darts. And at some point, you hit the balloon. In this case, if you're them, you have no other way to get a quarterback. And you are absolutely murdered by the Deshaun thing. The Giants won...

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That's a little tough for one because they're not in the same salary cap hell that the Browns are in.

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They're in the same desperation thing, right? If they hit on Sanders, they could save the jobs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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This isn't Mitch Trubisky either because this kid comes with real fame already. People have watched him in college. They've watched him do good things. They like his dad. He's got some pizzazz. Whereas like Trubisky, it's like, hey, he started 13 games and he's like Darko Milicic basically. Hey, on paper, this guy's amazing and there's really no evidence at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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The thing that jumped out to me just sitting there was like, oh my God, these fans love Kobe. They love him. And it was my big takeaway from the night. And there's reasons for that. He's drafted by the team. He's a teenager. They get to watch him go through the stages. Then they win titles with him. Shaq shows up from Orlando. He'd been there

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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And he's also had a big spotlight on him for the last couple of years. And abnormally large for QB. There's one other piece. So you were talking about how he didn't do well in a couple of those interviews. Or the vibes were off and it...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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No, just like, hmm, doesn't seem like he's that interested in coming to our team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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So there's an NBA version of this during the COVID draft when LaMelo ends up going second to Charlotte. And the story I always heard was they have to do Zoom interviews and it's like the most fucked up draft process ever. And they do the LaMelo thing and he's just really off in it. And he's distant and just seems like he doesn't really give a shit about the Warriors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

1522.797

And it affected how they thought about whether they should take him or not. And then it turns out he probably knew he was going Charlotte. He probably wanted to go there. And you kind of perform what your expectations are for where you want to go, right? So if it's a team, and I can totally see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

1539.703

If it's a team you don't really want to go to, you turn into Tom Cruise in Risky Business where you're like, I don't really want to go to University of Illinois. I want to go to Princeton. So if he has an inkling, that he could go second. He knows in Cleveland, like obviously LeBron was there, like you can become a big star in Cleveland, but I can see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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And it's a good situation because their team wasn't bad last year. Like it's not, they're not that far away from being a little more impactful maybe if they had a decent QB.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

1595.506

And there's no trade-up team, we don't think, because the Raiders got Geno. I don't think that the Jets just went in on fields. I don't see them trading up anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

1617.859

Oh, it seems like he's the Bo Nix of this draft. Absolutely. Bo Nix ends up going, what, 12? He went 12. It seemed inconceivable. He was second round, second round, second round. Oh, maybe late first round. Then all of a sudden he's 12.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Another team that's in salary cap hell and just completely screwed and have to get a quarterback somehow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

167.188

I don't know, four years in Orlando, comes to the Lakers. So he's a little bit of a hired gun, kind of like LeBron now. And they love both of them together, but they really love Kobe. And you could feel that during the rest of the run. Especially the 06 season, I remember going to a bunch of games that year. It was after the trial.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

1715.168

Well, in the McShay Report, a very excellent newsletter that everybody should subscribe to. It pops right into your... It's like, I woke up this morning, seven o'clock, looking at text, Celtic Salt and Sudden God Salt. Then your newsletter came. I'm like, what a great morning. I haven't eaten that coffee yet. It's kind of nice.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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You have the Giants trading up to 19 for Dart. You have fake trade. 34 and 65 and a 26 third rounder to the Bucs. Yeah. For pick number 19. So in that scenario, the two quarterbacks go one, two. They take Hunter third. And I want to talk about that in a second. And then move up and take Dart. And now they're like, we've got Dart. We've got neighbors. Yo, Travis Hunter. Who knows?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

1756.232

Maybe he'll play both sides of the ball. And all of a sudden now there's energy with the Giants.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Well, and let me stop you one second there. Yeah. I refuse to read another mock draft that doesn't have those four going in some order. I still see drafts from like good places where they're like number four Patriots, Will Campbell, and then Jacksonville takes Abdul Carter at five. And I'm like, I promise you that's not happening. No, no. If Abdul Carter isn't four, they're taking Abdul Carter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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So don't buy the jersey yet. Tell my buddy Jay Buck, like, don't buy it yet. Wait till, like, end of April.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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But Hunter makes a whiff more sense for the Giants, but I thought you laid it out correctly. It makes a little more sense, but if they took Carter, it's not like that's stupid. They would just have an amazing defensive line.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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They weren't very good, but he just single-handedly scores 35 points a game. And just at some point after everything that happened with him, in Colorado, it changed the tenor of the relationship of the fans with him in a way that people were like, this is our guy. We are sticking with him through thick and thin. Shaq's gone. Our team's not going to be very good, but this is our guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Well, you put him and neighbors together just from an athlete standpoint.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Yeah, otherwise you're looking at a trade back. And in a trade back, I don't know who's trading up and what you're getting. I mean, I told you my dream trade would be the Jets move up to four. Pats get Garrett Wilson. Pats give up their second round pick. So it's basically seven and 39 for... you know, for like, whatever the Pats end up with seven and Garrett Wilson in the deal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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And I'm like, I'd sign up for that. Why would the jets do that? I have no idea, but that's my, that's where you lose me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

1973.25

I can't listen. I can't apologize for my dreams. No, not at all. But the thing with the Pats is, I'm not, I'm not a big draft for need guy when you're not one guy away from winning the Superbowl. This Pat's thing is going to be like a three year, you know, completely. They don't need to be like, we need a left tackle because that way we'll go eight and nine next year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Like they just need, they need awesome players and it really doesn't matter what position they are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2018.091

You're taking him three, four spots too high, but you kind of have to do it. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2060.393

No, it's Lombardi's old thing about blue chippers. We call them red chippers. And then the guys below that. But the teams that usually are around the Super Bowl sniffing around, you look and they have five, six, seven, eight blue chippers. Yes. The Pats only have Gonzalez and Drake May right now. Plus the nose tackle they got from the Eagles.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Well, don't you think we'll know? We'll know with Cleveland and Sanders, right? That's not going to leak out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

209.563

And you could really feel it that 06 season. And, you know, the only time I can remember where the basketball player was bird with the Celtics, where it was just like, 100% approval rating. Everybody's all in. This is our guy. We believe he can do anything. And I felt like Kobe got to the point with the fans, really in the mid-2000s, you could feel it the most. And there was always buzz with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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There's a lot of people with interest in that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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But still, until you hear the name, you're not going to... Because the only thing that worries me is, are the Browns... And I would do this if I ran a team. Do you pretend you're drafting Sanders because you want to see if the Giants are going to flip out and maybe offer you something to flip picks with you? And you wanted Abdul Carter all along.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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I always feel like... Yeah, of course. I'm just going to represent that I'm going to potentially take somebody... But the Giants would know...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2133.82

But they could say, if you don't swap picks with us, we have somebody that's coming in hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2144.783

Yes. And then you have the Giants are now trying to use all their intel, like find out from our guy in the Jets how real this is. And that's what makes the draft so much fun. You're basically all playing poker with each other. But it's some of the worst poker players who ever lived. Yes. So the biggest questions are Carter versus the other than the QBs, Carter versus Hunter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Just who has more value? And that really seems like whoever just needs whatever they do more, but they're pretty equal. You have Carter above Hunter, but not by a shitload, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2231.96

And this is also our best chance to get a number one receiver because we struck out trying to get all these different guys. Now you're looking at Stefan Diggs and Brandon Ayuk and people are coming off major injuries. It gets a little. And it's a receiver draft that sucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2272.29

It sounds like such a fun wrinkle for whoever gets him, where if you play him at receiver, but he's also like your dime back. And it's just like, he's in now. Oh my God, he picked one off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2290.744

I was like, oh my God, are they going to throw it to him? Right. So that would be cool. This tournament season, Fando has given you the power to take control of your bets and introducing the bet back token, the ultimate game changer that lets you bail on any bet that's not going your way by turning it into bonus bets. It's simple. One of your bets is not heading in the right direction in the game.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

230.982

And that year was the year that he had that huge Toronto game, the 81. But in general, he was a threat to do whatever night after night after night. LeBron, as great as he is, was always like a totality of what he was doing. If you love basketball, how do you not absolutely love what he's doing? But the ultimate LeBron game would be like 32 points, 15 assists, 12 rebounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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The Q6 e-tron is not just the new EV. It's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. Then the draft really starts at five. Yeah. And you had Mason Graham going to the Jags in mock draft 2.0. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

24.065

Luka came out. He always tests these first quarters. And this is something he always did in Dallas too. You kind of want to watch the first quarter of a Luka game because you never know what the ceiling is going to be. Like at some point, he's going to score 75 points in a game. It's going to happen. And he usually tests that first quarter to see how much he's feeling it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2402.58

Right. So I was going to say that the boys to stay kid at six to the Raiders, but then you also love Hampton and we could have two running backs in the top 12, even though one of the only things we've learned about the draft is don't take running backs that high. Right. It's, it's a disposable position. Like I was looking at the 2016 draft in the NFL. Don't ask why.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2422.027

And like everybody in that draft seems so old now, like Zeke Elliott's in it. 2016 draft is like not that long ago. Like Jalen Brown was in the 2016 draft. And he's just hitting the prime of his career. And Zeke Elliott seems like he's 48. So you think about that with running backs and it's like, all right, so I'm going to draft somebody that I have for six years. I get Mason Graham.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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He might play till he's 36. he might, he might have two giant contracts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2455.366

Yeah. So if you're taking a running back, that guy, that high, you better think it's like, this is Saquon Barkley, B. John Robinson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2579.939

So if Will Campbell had 34-inch arms, he'd be the fourth pick in the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

259.108

It's a little like Jokic. We're not gonna tell our grandkids we were at a game where Jokic had 30, 20, and 15. It's amazing to watch. There's something different when somebody might have the chance to really go off. It's the rarest thing in basketball. And there was that feeling in there for a couple minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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If you were a GM, would you ever take a running back in the top 12?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2624.075

That's my dream scenario for the third round for the Pats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2635.719

You know this though, when there's too many... Guys start dropping because nobody ends up taking, like even think about last year with the wide receivers that got so stupid and the Pats ended up with the 10th guy in the first 35 picks who was a receiver. Right. You know, I think there's a, they know all of a sudden Cooper goes to the Eagles at 39. He's the third best defensive back on the board.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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I don't know. I just feel like when there's a glut, it really fucks things up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2687.076

But I would say the Gibbs and the success Detroit had with him as a weapon would make people think like, ah, maybe in the 12 to 15 range. I always look with the draft, you know, and I'm already starting to think about NFL over-unders and the win totals. And can somebody get, like when the Eagles got Jalen Carter that year, it's like, oh, that's getting that guy at nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2708.044

Jesus, like that might affect. And when you look at the teams that are picking the first 15. Yep. The one that jumped out to me was the team you mentioned, the Bears. And I have no idea if they're going to be good. And they're in a brutal division. And who knows with Caleb. But they spent a lot of money. They have the QB on the rookie scale.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2728.205

And then if they just crush the 10th pick somehow and got somebody awesome, then you just have to start thinking like, ah, look at this. Like that Tyler Warren, the tight end. I don't know where he's going to go. He could go five. He could go 12. But like... if they got him at 10, that's somebody that could play right away and be, you know, potentially like an impact dude right away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2749.875

So that was the team I was looking at. And then the only other one was, uh, was Atlanta just cause I think Atlanta with Pennix and they have some talent, the division sucks. Like if they are able to nail that pick, that could be a good one too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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278.377

So it was that plus, you know, there's performance with him where Los Angeles just makes sense As a team that he plays for, he's working the crowd. At one point in the first quarter, some guy in red, he got fouled. And Luka has 20 at that point. He gets fouled. The guy, this dumbass with the drinks, like, ball don't lie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2831.337

I can't believe that. Well, that's what with TMAC, I wonder like, this is the reverse of a glut. When there's nobody at a position, he's the only probably first round graded wide receiver. He's one of the only two that you could even see going in there. And somebody just needs a receiver and you get people in our office like, ah, fuck it, we need a receiver. And all of a sudden he's going 11th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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you know, cause we see that version of the draft too. I just like, wow, you're taking them here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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So does somebody look better if there's not, if there's not a lot of competition in a draft and then they start to look like the hottest girl at the bar?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2952.59

Feel a little burned after a poke last year in the 30s with the receiver. I'm hurt. My guard's up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2962.719

Second to last question. Who is the holy shit, this guy's going here, top 15 guy, if you had to guess, the guy who just goes 10, 11 spots higher than you ever could imagine. Last year, it would have been Bo Nix. If we were talking about that draft, five weeks for the draft, and you said Bo Nix is going to go 12, I would have been like, what? That's insane. He's not going 12.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

2991.167

Um, is there a weird left tackle? Like maybe on paper guy that we're not, that could be late. Like memo already.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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And Luka hears it and he turns around and he starts talking to the guy, talking shit to him. And now he's just interacting with this whole section. He does things... That I think are pretty rare from a basketball standpoint. He does hear the crowd. He does interact with people. He does talk shit. He talks shit to the refs. He talks shit to everybody he's playing against.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Last question. Russillo stretches for a half hour, goes out to Manhattan and tries to run the 40. But he's stretched. He's limber and he's ready. And we have scouts there and a stopwatch. What is Russillo running right now in the 40?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3124.514

Because he's really got a lot of muscle right now, which I think would hurt for the speed, but it also may help. Maybe he's in great shape.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3157.08

What weightlifting out of all those things they do in that, what would he crush? The bench press.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3163.103

The bench. So huge bench press. That's what the teams are talking about after. Like, Jesus, Rosillo benched 580. But I don't see him as a fullback. So I'm trying to figure out where we're going to roll him. Oh, you see him like a, what was that guy in the Niners? Jusek?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3180.45

Like a guy Belichick would have taken in 2007, just like I just want him for special teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's still mad about it. We'll talk about it all the time. All right, McShay, subscribe to his newsletter. It's great. Listen to the McShay Show. Also great. You can find that on YouTube as well. Great to see you as always. All right, YouTube. Chris Mannix is here. You can read him on Sports Illustrated. You can listen to his podcast. What's the podcast called? Open Floor still? Open Floor, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

320.004

Like he almost got into it at one point with Peyton Watson. And you're watching. It's like, oh, watch out. Luke is pissed now. He just feels like he belongs in LA. And that was my big takeaway. I was thinking about like, if you're going to have the perfect Laker for central casting, You'd want somebody who's a little polarizing, which Luka is, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3211.812

Open Floor. Where was that on the title list as you were coming up with title names? The top one were like two taken. Titles are so hard now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3230.35

They're like, no, got to keep going. Speaking of basketball, an eight episode HBO drama could be written about the Celtics sale. where we found out today $6.1 million to somebody that 12 hours ago, nobody knew who he was. I mean, probably some rich people knew who he was. People knew he was the final bidder, but now Bill Chisholm is going to be the next owner of the Boston Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3255.75

He paid a record price. It was not an accident. where Washington, the commanders went for 6.05, Celtics go for 6.1. I have a million thoughts, but what was your immediate reaction to the price?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3344.85

My first reaction, because I love being right, was I was saying last summer that this was going to get to six and that's what the NBA wanted. And guess what? It got to six. I think that was a huge thing for the NBA with the expansion coming. Six has to be the number. That's what we want.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

3359.918

I think it was a big thing for the family, especially Irv, the 90-year-old legend, who was not going to have any sort of inside job. There's a whole Steve Pagliuca, who's the number two owner of the Celtics right now, that everybody assumed he was going to get it. And I can't wait to dive into that piece with you. It was made clear from the beginning. There's no inside job.

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This will go to the highest bidder. The most money wins this. And nobody really believed it, but that's how it played out. And it got to 6-1. And my guess is that The Pagluca group and maybe even one or two of the other ones got to the six. The point one is so fascinating to me. The point one, sometimes this is how it goes. This is how Larry Elson lost the Warriors.

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Where it's like, no, he had it, he had it, he had it. Then the other side, I think, went to, I forget what it was, like 400, 360, whatever it was. And he's like, nope, that's my final offer. And he didn't get it. And over and over again, the guys that get these teams are the ones that are like, oh, you want to break the Washington record? All right. All right. Point one. Done. And that was it.

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That's how he got it. So the Steve Pack Luga piece is incredible that he didn't get it and that he came really close and he did a long post today that was posted on social media. That was, I think, one of the strangest posts I've ever read from somebody who didn't own a team. I couldn't believe he did that.

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Great player, hasn't won the title yet, little out of shape, doesn't really play defense, will have quarters where he just looks terrible, then a quarter where he's awesome, and there's always the potential of something more And he's still great. He's still one of the five best players in the league. But it's like, I wonder what else is there. So you have that.

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OK, but this is the number one thing I want to talk about. Go ahead. Well, it's just so you have these two guys. Wick's dad puts up the most money for the team. Wick's the one that's organized in the group. And it starts out, I think, with four people that put up the money.

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They they get the price and then their job after they get the price is to then go find a group of minority people to then take off offload some of the money they just committed to, which, by the way. That's what Chisholm's doing right now. He's trying to, he is now, he's already put the feelers out.

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He's trying to put together a little syndicate to offload some of the money that he's already promised. So that's in motion now. So they get the four, but Paggs was always, it was like Wick and he's the owner and the dad put up the most money, but also here's Paggs. And they've had this uneasy co-owner alliance, but Wick was always the face of it.

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And it was always a little awkward and you could feel it when they were like a trophy. You know, that's when that Lazarie and Eden's had that too. Some of these co-owner like Goober and Lakob, same thing where it's like, it's my team, but you have to be here and you hold, let's hold the trophy together. And it's always super awkward.

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And I don't know how great it was going by the end, because I think when, when Pagliuca tried to buy the Nets, And I don't think Wick found out from PagLuca is my understanding. And I don't think it's been great since then. And I think the reverse of that was PagLuca found out that the Celtics were being sold the same way we all did. It was, it was, he was not tipped.

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You have the performance aspect, which Kobe was unbelievable at. And LeBron's great at too. But Kobe, there was a demeanor to him at these games, especially as he really bought into it. That was just awesome. You have the no ceiling in any game you go to with Luka. which I think is as rare as it gets. And it's the thing that I think made Curry so special the last 10 years.

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He was not giving a heads up. So I don't think that relationship has been great for the last year. And this specifically, the way he reacted to the sale tells me that this is, this is going to get ugly. And I have some reasons for why this got bad near the end, but what else have you heard on this?

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Well, so I think he, from what I had heard, he had the money to get to five, which is where they were hoping it was going to be in the fives because that's a realistic price for a franchise that doesn't have an arena.

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The growth spec side wanted more. They wanted more. They're pushing the number up. And I think one of the ways this really went sideways, there was a moment in this process where stuff was getting leaked out about the sale and there was an unflattering piece about

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you know, that it came out and I don't even know what Wicks exact stake is, but how small Wicks stake allegedly was with the Celtics and they're shooting too high and there was stuff. And I, I don't think that went great for pegs and whether, whatever he may have done or not done.

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And he, maybe he did nothing, but I think there was a feeling that somebody was trying to neg the price and make it lower to try to make it. And I think you look at 90 year old or gross back and, who's like one of the great business people, the last, like really respected, respected as a thinker. And he's tutored a bunch of people and he's a mentor to a lot of people.

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And he's just, he's rich for a reason. And I don't think it went over very well. That stuff started coming out that they wanted too much for the team. Cause ultimately who's saying that it's either, it's like the Fenway group who I don't think ever was going to try to do it anyway, or somebody that was already actively trying to buy the team. And there weren't a lot of people at that point.

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So I think from the moment that happened, when those stories came out, It started to get dicey. And there's a lot of people in the organization who are rooting for him to get it because he was stability. It's like if he comes in, everything will remain the same. And I think when that happened, people started getting nervous.

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I do think I was kind of rooting for him, too, because I wanted things to stay somewhat the same.

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It's like, am I at the game right now where Curry's going to hit 15 threes? Am I at the game right now where Curry's going to get 70? There's a one-on-one aspect with Luka that I think is important. There's nobody in the league remotely like him. like remotely, all the stuff he's doing. Like he got in the first eight minutes of the game I went to last night.

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That's why we don't we don't know how it leaked out or what happened. But I think once it happened, It changed the tenor of this whole thing where they were like, okay, fuck, fuck all you people. Now we're going to get the price we want. Um, and there, you mentioned like there were a lot of people kicking the tires on it. You know, it was double figures. It got whittled down to five.

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Lori was in it, the Eagles owner. And then for whatever reason, dropped out right after the Superbowl or before the Superbowl, right around the Superbowl. I think it was after, who knows? Um, but it went from five to four. And Chisholm was the mystery guy to me. Even if you were Googling him today, there just isn't a lot of information about him. He grew up on the North Shore, went to Dartmouth.

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His son plays soccer at Dartmouth and graduated in 19. He's on this weird tech fund, hedge fund thing, and he's apparently a huge Celtics fan. And that's all we know. But this is why it's so amazing when somebody buys a team like the Celtics. You go from I could walk by you and have no idea who you are to now you're one of the Kings of Boston.

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And I think that's, I think Wicks had a really hard time with that over the last year, knowing that there's some end game where when you're the owner of the Celtics, the room treats you a little differently than when you're not. And I think he's aware of that.

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Granted, Denver's missing their two best guys, but he beats everybody off the dribble for eight minutes in a row. And he's doing the herky-jerky stuff. He's banging people. It's like, it felt like he could post up whoever he wanted. He could go by whoever he wanted. He could make 27 footers. Oh, and he's an awesome passer too. So you have that.

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So his statement, and it was funny because they released this statement from Boston Business Partners, which is the group that owns the team. Witt's the first quote in it. And he says that Chisholm asked me to run the team as CEO and governor for the first three years and stay on as his partner. stay on as his partner. And I'm glad to do so. And then the next paragraph is a quote from Chisholm.

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I've never seen somebody buy a team and not be the first quote in the press release. Everybody was saying Wick was trying to do this, and it seems like he actually pulled it off. And you mentioned the Cuban piece. I never believed that as it was happening, it seemed inconceivable to me that somebody was going to buy a sports team.

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And then just let somebody who didn't know that we've, we just don't see that really happened ever. And the times we've seen it happen, we're like Pat Croce and the Sixers, you'd be the government. And then it would always go badly within a year. So it says three years. It doesn't mean it's going to be three years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So if I gave you like the FanDuel over under, and I gave you the two and that like, like boxing two and a half rounds, is it, would you go over under? If you gave me two and a half for the over under, I don't know what I'd bet. I go under.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, I don't know. How were you saying it? We know so little about this guy. I don't even know how to pronounce his name. I thought it was Chisholm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can he put a social media thing on and be like, here's how to pronounce my name? Please call me Bill. I refuse to believe his name's William. It's got to be Bill. His son's name's Will, which tells me he's a Bill. So here's one of the many things that I don't get about this. For that kind of price... and you're not going to quote unquote, be the governor for the first three years.

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You have the Hollywood redemption comeback story because the Mavericks gave up on him You could say they traded him, they got a lot back. Well, obviously they didn't get a lot back, but they gave up on him. They didn't believe that they could win a title with him. They didn't want to pay him $330 million. LA loves that. You have the Lakers... outwitted another team to get him, which is it.

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I mean, now he's in his mid fifties. He graduated from Dartmouth in 91. So he's in, this is prime NBA owner, NFL owner range, like from mid fifties, all the way through to mid seventies, a 20 year run. He's got the son. I have no idea if the son's going to be groomed to have a role with Pat Gluka. His son, I think would have been a big part of it.

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We'll see with this same thing with if Lori had gotten it, I think his son would have been a big part of it. Um,

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I just find it hard to believe you're going to buy this team, do the victory lap, do the press conference, figure out where your tickets are, have these huge decisions like, oh my God, if we get bounced in round two of the playoffs, we're losing a shitload of money on top of this $200 million luxury tax bill that's coming. Let me just turn over all the decision-making to Wick. That seems crazy.

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And we haven't really seen it happen in anything else. So I'm like you. I'm watching it. I'm skeptical.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So some of the questions that are left is, was this the highest offer? I'm going to assume it was. Had to be. But he's doing a lot of debt and all this stuff to, to, whereas I, cause I thought it was notable. Pat Gluka said in this thing, we had a real offer. He sounded like a guy who didn't get the house he thought he was going to get. It's like, I had a real offer. I offered you all cash.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't understand why you went with this other person. They didn't offer you all cash. Um, I don't understand the WIC part at all. And there's another piece of this too. And I'm sure you've been around the team a lot. He's pretty devastated that they're selling in the first place. And he's talked about it pretty openly to people that ask him about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So he does it in this Lakers game. They're playing Denver. There's no Jokic. There's no Murray because God forbid you go to an NBA game and see all the stars on both teams. There's no LeBron either. Luka comes out. He scores 20 of the first 33 points.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it's been a theme that has been going around the last couple of months that his dad pushed for this, his dad wanted to do it for the estate planning, all this stuff they said. But I think especially with winning the title last year, the team being really good this year, I think Wicks had a really hard time with this. Even harder than maybe he's let on publicly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So just staying on now for two more years, but knowing that there's an endgame, it's a really weird variable. I'm excited because he's a great owner and I hope he stays on and has the same impact he had, but... It's weird. It's weird to feel bad for somebody who just sold something for $6.1 billion, but I just don't think he wanted to sell. I don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I gotta be honest. It feels like the Laker fans have their swagger back a little because, you know, you think like really since the Kobe Nash Howard year, and then they just sucked forever and they drafted in the top four and the picks were like pretty hit or miss and they missed out on guys like Tatum. And then they end up with LeBron basically because LeBron just wanted to move to LA.

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And you stuck with Tatum and Brown. And you became the best owner in Boston by 2025, hands down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I would say he was one of the most successful sports owners of this century. I'd agree. He took a team that had really no assets other than Pierce and no cap space and was able to rebuild it. It's the PAGS piece of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, he didn't get the Nets. He ran for governor, didn't get that. And then everyone thought he was getting the Celtics and he didn't get that. He has the Italian soccer team, but I just, he's gotta be dying today. Just dying. But I think we all felt like this was probably coming. Like I had hit a point where I didn't, I wouldn't have bet on him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think a lot of people, but the thing that I'm gonna be interested to see if it floats out over the next couple of days is, did he have any chance? Had this turned into a situation where they were like, we're just not selling to this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then they end up with Davis because LeBron made them trade everything for Davis. So now they end up with those two guys. But for the most part, I wouldn't call it the shrewdest team over the years. Ben Reeves is a great pick. And then Luka is the greatest trade maybe in the history of the league, at least since the Bill Russell trade. So you have that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, and he released a statement right after they put the team for sale, right? He got one up that day, too. That day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would say yes. There's another piece of this expansion coming. That's now we've established a price, 6 billion if you want in, 12 billion. Teams split it 30 ways. That's $400 million in cash the owners get. They don't share with the players. So Chisholm is buying in here at 6.1. He knows he's getting 400 billion back over the next couple of years with this expansion fee.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So it's really 5-7 because that's what... You know, that's what Cuban forfeited. That's what the Grosbecks forfeited by selling now. You get that money that maybe goes to the luxury tax. I was trying to walk my dad off the ledge this morning because my dad's just like, the Luca thing has spooked my dad. He was like, you can't say like the new Dallas owners, everything seemed great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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And then they're trading Luka Doncic for a day in a first and Max Christie. Like, yeah, I'm worried we're going to do something stupid now. I knew what we had with WIC. And it's hard to talk someone off the ledge on that. Yeah. I'm more worried, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're not trading Jalen Brown to the wherever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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I was more worried about Drew. Because Drew's like low 30s and the right team that wants a vet and you think you're the Celts and you're like, this is kind of a luxury to have a guy like this. Those are, it's, it's in that white holiday grouping that could be the first to go unless I hope they keep Tatum and Brown together forever. And I love having those guys as a combo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then you have the night-to-night with Luka where you show up in the building and And you don't know where you're going to get. And you can't put a price on that. It goes beyond the trade. It goes beyond the fact that they fleeced Dallas, that they have somebody who's about to hit the prime of your career. This guy has a chance. to be Kobe for these guys. And that's the difference.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think historically they have a chance to be something really special. Just two guys playing together their whole careers like that. One draft apart, winning titles like that's how many pairings have done that? Like, and how many pairings have fallen apart before they got to that point? So, but you know, if you're paying $130 million a year for two guys, It's almost impossible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the team's in a weird spot. They're stuck at 2nd. you have Cleveland stuck at first and the Knicks probably stuck at third. And you have a month of the season left and all crappy teams for the most part on the schedule. And it's like, let's try to keep everyone healthy. Let's try to give these guys the minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're doing this interesting strategy with the best guys, Tatum and Brown, but they either won't play them or they'll play them real minutes. They're not doing like play 25. Like they're either playing a playoff game minutes or not playing them. And they have the luxury to do whatever they want and try to get Shireman and people like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think they're, I just think they're better than the Knicks and that if they lost to the Knicks, that would be catastrophic because they've had their number all year and everything's heading toward this Cleveland series. And Cleveland's just lost three games in a row. And for the first time, it's the Russian is cut. It's just a little bit of that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I just think they feel like if everyone's healthy and KP's in there, we're going to be in the finals again. It seems to be the attitude, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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LeBron came in 2018. He'd been in the league 15 years. He belonged to Cleveland. So it's a business arrangement. It was year to year, and it was great, and it's worked out awesome, and they have a chance to make the finals this year. But it was always a little bit of an arrangement. Kobe is different.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, one other thing is they kind of blew the home court against OKC if they are able to get to the finals. They just lost that in five days. They had a chance to basically control their own fate the whole way, and now OKC, and you know they'll turn it on. So from a Celtics standpoint, that's potentially looming down the road. I love the way Tatum's playing, and...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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For me, I just want to know who's on the team in round two. Is KP there? Am I reading stories from people like you with like, KP, hopefully in game three, he'll be back. If we're going down that road, I think it's going to be really hard to win. And then the West, who the F knows beyond OKC. I've changed my mind 20 times in the last week. even since we did the Sunday pot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know what to expect in the West, so we'll see what happens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, and there's been... If you look at the history of the team, there's been some Al Horford moments over the years where most of the time they've let the guy go and kept their fingers crossed. In this case... You could make a case he's the most beloved Celtic teammate that we've seen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was trying to think, I was talking to somebody about this, about is anybody more loved by the people that play with him and coach him than Al Horford? Like that Laker game was so fascinating when the Lakers were going at him and he started talking shit and Tatum was talking shit. And apparently there was just a lot of shit talking on both sides. They kept going at Al. He's talking shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And when he came out of that game, the bench like went, Like crazy. They were so fired. They just absolutely love him. And I think that would be a really tough one to leave. That's even, that's not James Posey. We want a title with you. Oh, it would suck if you left. This is like, he's in the fabric. Tatum and Brown grew up with the dude. So you're right. That's probably the first big test.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My feeling is if you spend that amount of money on a team and you want to impress people in the city you grew up with, you're probably going to spend money the first couple of years. But we've seen these new owners come in and they're absolutely nuts. Here are my ideas. We're going to do this. We're going to zag when everybody's zigging. And it's like, oh boy, here we go.

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And when you go to the Staples and you see the statues when you walk in, and we were talking about, like, last time we were walking in, Like, is Luca going to get a statue here someday? You know, the statues are really smart. You go and you see Jerry West, you see Kobe, you see Magic, you see Shaq, and it's like, whose statue were they? Could LeBron get a statue? Maybe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't see, we should have talked about that sooner. I don't see how you spend this kind of money, but then also don't buy, build an arena.

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There's stuff there in 93 that, that the place they were looking at for the Olympics was, If you go back and read the Olympic stories from 2014, there's a specific spot like past where Emerson plays soccer and lacrosse. Like when you're driving by going toward the Cape, there's this whole section that is the spot that they're going to make like the hub of the Olympics.

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And I feel like that, I think it's called like the rail yard or something. I think that's where the arena would go. That's really the only open spot that's in the city in the right way. Or it could be Seaport, but I mean, Seaport's already really hard to get to back and forth now for putting 19,000... Fans there will be a little rough.

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I would put it right on the other side of the hill in Charlestown. We're going right in the town, like 12,000 seat arena. Let's fucking go.

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It's bottom third in the league in terms of... Well, there's another possibility of it, too, where you can... There's a second part of this where you try to buy the Jacobs side and the Bruins in the arena and try to own everything. Because if they leave that arena... The Bruins are screwed, right? They had this 35-year-old. When was Fleet Center?

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Maybe if they make the finals this year, maybe he's going to get one anyway. But Luca, what's sitting at stake now for him is... Not only can he become the face of the league. Earlier in the year, we're talking about face of the league, face of the league. Like this is it. This guy has a chance now to be the face of the league. Could he win titles here? Could you get a statue?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So 30-year-old arena, and then you're going to lose your basketball team? In like 2005 years, I don't see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Mannix, before we go, where am I with Bacoli? Oh, he's back. May 3rd. You told me not to bet on him. I did. You told me it was a money grab. I did. You told me he was flying across the world and had 14 hours before the fight and was just going to try to throw some bombs and it probably wasn't looking great, but he was getting paid more than he's ever been paid in his life.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I didn't sell any of my stock on your advice, but I'm still a little worried because he got his ass kicked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I didn't tell you, but I put a small bet on because I was in Boston for that fight. I bet Bacoli, I know, but I can't not bet Bacoli KO. It's like a blind bet. I'm just betting it every time. I had to do it. So Canelo May 3rd, are we excited for that fight?

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And you could feel a buzz building in the arena that is the sound you only get to hear when this is happening with Curry, when Curry's hitting threes. You go back in time, like when Kobe was feeling it some nights, when Michael Jordan was feeling it some nights. It's the rarest sound you get at a basketball game where everybody's like, holy shit. You start looking at the scoreboard.

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And could you be one of the big celebrities in LA where night after night after night, people are going to these games to see him, to see what happens with him. And you can feel the buzz already. There's more celebrities at all these games. The energy is different. And I'm not saying it was bad before. But the energy reminded me of what it was like when I went to that Kobe game.

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And the NFL will have started at that point and college football will be going. So it's going to be an insane weekend. Well, we'll see how much boxing Netflix does. So they're definitely intrigued that that Tyson fight, I think, was a jaw dropper for them. And it seems like they're going to be dabbling a little bit more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So what's the fight of the year? If you have to bet on one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Canelo Crawford's not the fight of the year. No, just what's going to be 2025's fight of the year when it's December 31st. So Canelo Crawford's not going to be it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right. Mannix, great to see you. You too. Thank you. You got it. All right. Thanks to McShay. Thanks to Mannix. Thanks to Suri and Gahal and Kyle. As always, I hope your March Madness brackets go great. Don't forget to check out Good Hang with Amy Poehler. Two episodes up. Rewatchables, Days of Thunder, Prestige TV. If you missed White Lotus, that's up there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then Celtic City, episode four, coming Monday night on HBO and Max. Larry Bird shows up. And guess what? He was really good at basketball. So that's what we got today. I will see you on a Sunday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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It's the same thing. And you kind of either have that or you don't. And he has it. And it's one of the many reasons why that trade is fucking incredibly stupid. So I just want to mention that. Let's get to the rest of the podcast. You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA.

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The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more.

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Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents, select states, game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, we launched a new podcast for The Ringer on Spotify. It is called Good Hang with Amy Poehler. Two new episodes, Tina Fey and Martin Short. Check it out. It's awesome. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network.

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I put up a new rewatchables on Monday, Days of Thunder. I got to be honest, I didn't realize how many people like this movie. A lot of buzz out there. People are pumped that we did this. New Prestige TV podcast went up Sunday night after White Lotus. We did episode five. We have episode six, In the Bank. That is coming Sunday night immediately after White Lotus ends.

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we don't have the screener yet for episode seven. It's going to get dicey folks. There's only two episodes left and we have not seen episode seven. So I will, I will keep you posted. I know you're on the edge of your seat. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Check them out.

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And we are going to have Todd McShay talking about the NFL draft a little bit later, but first Chris Mannix talking Boston Celtics sale and some NBA stuff as well. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're bringing in the new owner of the Boston Celtics, Todd McShay. Congratulations. Can't wait to see what you do with the team.

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Yeah, big six with no arena. So you have the McShay Show for us. You have the McShay Report, an excellent newsletter that is really becoming more and more exciting as we're within five weeks of the NFL draft. And I obviously have some special interest because my favorite team is picking fourth. But I wanted to go through some of the stuff you have in here. I feel bad.

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Anytime I have you on, I feel like I'm stealing something from Russillo. Do I have to work this out with him? I don't know. I just feel like I'm going to his fridge and grabbing like his grapefruit juice and taking like a big swig. No, you're like, you're like team Rosillo. I always feel bad. Yeah, but we're all on the team now, right?

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Great. That's a good way to put it. I'm going to tell him that. Um, It's starting to look like 1-2 for the QBs, which is what you laid out in Mock Draft 2.0. Cam Ward to Tennessee. Sanders to the Browns. Can we go through all the breadcrumbs of this Cleveland Browns-Sanders at number two, please? Let's hear it.

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So with like four and a half minutes left, the Lakers had 33 points and he had 20. And now everybody's like out of their minds. They just can't, oh my, is he gonna, could he score 100? Could he get third in the first quarter? Of course, from that point on, he goes down. He stunk in the second quarter. He wasn't good in the third quarter either. They win easily because the Nuggets had nobody.

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Do you like how I was on deep social media trying to find weird people talking about this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luka Buzz, NFL Draft Scoops, and a Huge Celtics Sale With Todd McShay and Chris Mannix

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Right. It was almost like he was meeting with his accountant for 15 minutes or something. He was trying to sell them.

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Yeah, because the perception is, because it's Deion's son, you just in your head, you're like, oh, he's got to be an amazing athlete. And he's actually a way more traditional quarterback.

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It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't foul out on your chance to win with America's number one sports book. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Plus enjoy our new NBA player prop pages, your one-stop shop for player props that include FanDuel's exclusive performance trends.

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I actually... Oh, you lost the crap. It's 30 degrees outside. We can't antagonize them. I love you, Texas. I actually think even KD would admit Nets over Knicks was a mistake.

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I think the San Antonio thing would be great because KD really does have genuine affection for... For University of Texas, even though he was only here one year, but the way he talks about it, it'd be cool.

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Which is what he needs. Yeah, he does. Because you don't want to be the guy who played for 25 years and everyone's like, eh. Like Vince Carter. Yeah. Vince Carter got retired by Toronto. Yeah, he's, like, got a retirement ceremony every week. And it's like, he played for the Nets for four years, the retiring number.

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It feels like there's a lot of rehabilitation stuff with retired stars whose careers didn't turn out perfectly. Like Carmelo's another one. And then Dwight Howard's like, I'd like to figure out how to do this, but I'm too much of a mess. I can't. But in general, it's funny how...

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Like, we hear way more about Carmelo and way more about Vince Carter now than Tim Duncan, who's one of the best seven players of all time. But it's kind of, in one way, it's Tim Duncan's fault because he doesn't do, like, the post-career, look at me, look at me. Remember, like, he just doesn't, he doesn't care.

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Tim Duncan's at a bar and somebody's like, yeah, Karl Malone was better than Tim Duncan. He over here is like, I don't care. I won five titles. He doesn't. Karl Malone can have this one. I kicked his ass all the time. This episode is brought to you by McLobe Ultra. McLobe Ultra, a superior light beer and the ultimate trophy. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand.

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McLobe Ultra, crisp, refreshing, only 95 calories. a superior light beer. No matter the game, sport, or season, superior is worth playing for. Always be prepared for a win in order. Michelob Ultra today. Available on DoorDash, by the way. Enjoy responsibly. 2025 Anheuser-Busch Michelob Ultra light beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 plus to order alcohol.

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Alcohol available only in select markets. Shay, where do you stand on X-Player podcasts? Have we hit peak crazy yet, or are there two years left to go? Because you go to Hoopsype now, and every day it's some guy who made the All-Star team once who's like, I was toe-to-toe with LeBron for five years there. And you're like, what team are you on?

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Chris, does Embiid have a podcast that he does once a month? Does Embiid have a podcast? No. Just like once a month he does it?

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I remember the 2019 Celtics, the year was the year after the conference finals. Just to make it about you, we can't talk about you for a minute. No, when you know something's wrong with a season, and you're like, maybe this will be the game, and it turns around, and then it doesn't. And then by December, January, you're just kind of like, oh.

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This is going to be one of the... It's like every Jets season for Sean. But it's just like... I'm sorry. That was a call for it. I apologize. We're talking about the Sixers. Well, but you know it's not going to come back.

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We were talking about this earlier. Who is the number one celebrity or athlete that's attached to Austin, where Austin goes? Is it Glenn Powell or McConaughey? All right, so it's Powell and McConaughey in the finals, right? Do those guys have beef? Do those guys have a little tension?

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Yeah. I'll tell you, that reminded me of the 2019 Celtics. All right, so let's go. I'll give you McConaughey and Powell. So who says McConaughey? McConaughey. Who says Glenn Powell? All right. McConaughey.

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Wow. They did not like twisters. McConaughey's really figured it out. Yeah. Because he goes to a lot of the Texas games, too. He's like an assistant coach now.

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See our... Scale of 1 to 20, how genuine is Bradley Cooper's Eagles fandom, would you say? 1 to 20, I'll give you.

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Water's warm. Shay, who's your favorite celebrity attached to a team celebrity?

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First up, the Prince of Philadelphia, Chris Ryan. Next up, the self-proclaimed king of Letterboxd, Sean Fennessey. And last but not least, from the heart of Texas, the one, the only, Shea Serrano. It's a Grantland reunion, everybody. How you feeling, Shay? I feel fantastic. I feel so good. Sean went to a DVD store for like two hours today. What store was that, Sean?

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Come on. What about you, Sean? Favorite celebrity fan of one of my teams? Of a tie to a team, any team. The one you feel is the most genuine.

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A couple more quickies. Speaking of Austin, if Austin tried to steal the Spurs from San Antonio...

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Where is this arena they're playing tomorrow? It's a nice one, right?

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Sean, who's winning Best Picture at the Oscars? I had that on my list. Nora. Nora. Which... Yeah, Nora gang. Yeah, hell yeah. Thank you. Because it did the DGA, PGA, WGA, whatever the hell, that triple crown.

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I thought they were very well done. Yeah. Very tasteful. Very tasteful. Very tasteful. Yeah. I thought for the character it made a lot of sense. It did. It did. Really strong writing. So the last movie that did those three but then didn't win Best Picture was Crash.

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Yeah, so Netflix has this new documentary. This girl is a vlogger and just a lot of vlogging footage. And I got sucked in three episodes. Guess what? She didn't make it.

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These true crime things, I love when the guys, the killers, make the same mistake every time. This guy in the new one Once somebody is dead, they take the phone and they send texts back and forth like the police aren't going to figure that out. These people are so stupid. Anyway. Wait, what were we talking about?

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Oh, Brutalist. No, so I watched a combined 14 minutes of Wicked, Amelia Perez, and The Brutalist. They send me all the screeners. Sometimes I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to watch this. I'll watch three minutes. I'm like, I'm out. And then other ones, I'll keep going. I don't have time to watch 50 Oscar screeners. There's terrible basketball to watch.

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But I do want to watch The Brutalist. That just feels like you got to be in a mood, right?

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I would have you give your Oscar bets to everybody, but they can't bet here in Texas. What the hell, Texas? Boo! There's some FanDuel people here. They love this. Best actor? Chalamet.

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You know what? Better for the career if he doesn't win. I agree. It builds up. It gets a Leo thing going.

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Speaking of movies, Shay, are we scared about Heat 2? I'm scared about it. There's been a lot of conversations in our circles. Sequels are tough, man. It's almost better off not happening than having one. We were just talking about Den of Thieves 2.

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What's the most disappointing you've ever been in a sequel, Sean?

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Eddie was like 20 pounds overweight for some reason. I didn't understand why Jack hates... Why he was in jail for five more years and then they just fought the whole time. But then at the end, Keo ends up being the Iceman. It sucks. And it's like, what the hell? Because then it ruins how you watch the first movie. Where it's like, this guy was the Iceman the whole time? And it just like...

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It was like a Jedi mind trick. It really bothered me. None of you guys have even seen it. I don't like when it ruins the movie before it with what they do with the sequel. When they go retroactively backwards and it fucks up what was in your head already. It really annoyed me. You think that could happen to Heat 2? That's what I don't want. I don't want my... brain chemistry to get.

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I mean, we've seen heat 430 times. That's definitely affected our brain chemistry. Yeah. Shay, you were early on the WNBA.

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You were the first player in the WNBA. And now we're at the point with Caitlin Clark. Mm-hmm. Would you say she's the biggest under-30 basketball star we have, or would you go with somebody else?

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Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.

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Is it actually Jha? I know, Ja doesn't play. I mean, Ja plays, he just misses games left and right. But kids love him. Like, younger generations love Ja. Shea's not going to like this, but he's going to respect it. Tatum's got Tim Duncan-itis.

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Luca? I just don't understand the... When they say Tatum's boring... I don't really know what that means in the context of the NBA now. It means that they're frustrated.

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Well, it comes down to authenticity, right? Yeah. So KD, whether you like him, don't like him... can bitch about the Warriors' decision, whatever. He really seems like who he is. He's the most authentic of, I think, all these guys. Tatum's pretty authentic. He's just, you know, plays basketball, works out, loves his son. I don't know. CR, what's your answer?

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Yeah. Bronny is the best thing that's ever happened to go into a Laker game because if it's a blowout, everyone stays for Bronny. You can just leave and get your car. It's like, this is great. I'm out of here.

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Yeah, what is up, Austin? So I was here for the Dallas Super Bowl in Texas. When was that, like 2010? 2010. And it snowed like an inch and nobody could get anywhere because they had no snow plows. And that was when I realized, oh, yeah, Texas doesn't do well with cold weather. We are going to do a bunch of stuff with you guys today.

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Before we get to the big thing we're doing, who's winning the finals? Give us a pick.

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I mean, I'm sticking with Celtics-OKC because it was the preseason. I think Cleveland's really good. I actually think that they've somehow become underrated and undervalued. The Hunter trade was great. They're going to have home court every round for the first three.

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My dad's getting a little gamey with him lately. Hasn't really liked some of the subs. He's come home complaining a couple times, but he's fine. It's a hunger thing with them. We just saw with the Eagles and the Chiefs, like... We always forget the hunger piece with sports where the Chiefs, they're complaining. It's like, oh, the Super Bowl, we do this every year.

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And the Eagles are like, I'll fucking kill five small children to win this one game. And at some point, the hunger piece is a real thing. And you're playing like Cleveland or OKC, these teams that have never been there, and you won last year. It's that little extra something. That's the part that worries me, I think. All right, it's time. So you guys don't know what we're about to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The lamest and most overused gimmick at a live show is to do a draft of something. And we're gonna do that anyway. But we have a twist. We are going to draft sports movie characters who play basketball, and we're going to make a team out of them. And the catch is going to be for the two assistant coaches, the GM and the owner, are going to be from heist movies. And we're going to build our team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're picking a starting five, a six man, a bench player who has to be a real bench player. It can't just be like a starter who's coming off the bench. We're going to pick a basketball movie coach. So it's like Coach Carter, those type of things. And then two assistants from a heist movie. A GM from a heist movie and an owner from a heist movie. So much stuff. This is going to be very long.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We have a big, fun, crazy draft in the second part of this podcast. But we're going to start. We're going to do a hodgepodge thing. Let's start with All-Star Weekend because it just happened. Sure. Boom. Oh, wow. Tough beat. Second lowest ratings ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's not going to be that long. Shay, you have the first pick since you drove an hour to come here. All right. Wait, I have notes. Let me get my notes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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By the way, I forgot to say three rules for this. No cartoon characters. Space Jam's out. See, a lot of Lola Bunny fans. How dare you groan at our dumb rules that we made up five minutes ago. No NBA players as themselves, except with one exception, if you want. But it can't just be like, I take... Whoever, Jason White, Choco Williams, because he was in Eddie playing Jason White, Choco Williams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then... Well, you can, but that's just the only one you can take. Right, right, okay. And that's it. And nobody from Celtic Pride, because that movie sucked. But you're not allowed to do that. And we'll go snake fashion. Sean, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, it's really... We did He Got Game. I can't remember when for Rewatchables. I just... Ray Allen was just such a one-on-one with his basketball style.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, I just miss... I wish there was somebody like him now, but it's even fun to watch him in that movie. Just, like, his shot, the way he carried himself, the whole thing. C.R., you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I could have told you he wouldn't. He's dominant in blue chips. It's young Shaq. Skinny Shaq. How do we feel about blue chips? Pro blue chips. Great movie. I think... It's one of those movies that I was disappointed by for like 15 years. And then around 2009, I was like, this movie's fucking awesome.

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And they had all the best guys from 1993. They're just running like real games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, I guess I'm up. With two picks. So there's a lot of guys left on the board that I like, and I'm taking an owner pick out of the gate. Wow. I'm sorry, a GM pick. I'm taking Neil McCauley from Heat. Okay. I have to have him. He's got to be on my team. Why are you so interested in what I do, lady? I really feel like... You know, he's methodical. A little Sam Presti-ish. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like you call Neil McCauley and you're like, we need Paul George because that's how we're going to get Kawhi Leonard. Neil McCauley would hold out for SGA in the six first rounders. But what is his version of going back for Wayne Groh? It's a good question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, you don't want to do that. But that's why I'm here, because that's where you talk Neil out of, like, don't, no, dude, we won the Paul George trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was really impressed with some of his heists. Put in the stuff on the, you know, what are those things called? The things that break the tires? Yeah. Not only the ambulance, but then putting that across the way. I don't know. I just like how it is. You got the job. All right. All right, my other pick. So, I mean, this is a layup, but Fish That Saves Pittsburgh, Julia Serving plays Moses Guthrie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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um and it's right his knee he still has his knees i'd say it's like right after the aba nba merger and he's just crushing it in real life he's in the movie there's a playground scene where he takes a girl on a date that's the best starts dunking for her with slow motion with like romantic music best and uh It's just lights out. Tour de force. Women love that, by the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They love it. Well, it started 50 years of people doing that on dates. Anyway, he's on my team, too. So there you go. Shay. No, Chris, you're up. Oh, we're going to go around. Yeah, we're going back. We're sneak drafting. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, that was AI when you were watching. Woody was, Woody as Billy Hoyle, very Austin Reeves-ish when you watch Austin Reeves now. That kind of herky-jerky crossover.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That was kind of an issue for... CR, do you see Neon Boudot and Billy Hoyle running a lot of pick and roll or high school stuff?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I didn't think Wesley Snipes was good at basketball. I never bought the high dribble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then when we did the research for Rewatchables, it was like he had never really played basketball and they had to put him through like a basketball clinic. And I was like, I fucking knew it. I could just tell. Whereas like Woody, you could just see like he had the flow to him. So anyway, congrats, Sean. Great pick. Yeah. I feel like Giannis didn't pick up a basketball until he was like 15.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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CR, what did you think of my idea that we split the game up and the Sunday game is just guys from the top five seeds and they play for home court advantage in the playoffs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you went for toughness. Yeah. Wood Harris, Bonham McCall, and a 7'6 guy who played one game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm putting him in your bench spot. Okay. Well, I don't know what you mean by that, because raindrop! I had him on my board. What do you have, CR? Disney, your turn? No, it's... I picked... No, you're doing two now. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Fantasy's third pick was what? Did you make a third pick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My turn? Kyle, cut this out of the pod. I can't believe this is still happening. Kyle, cut this. No, you go, and then I go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's a great pick. He did quit on his team. And came back. He did come back. All right, that's a good pick. He was on my board. Yeah, no shit. I bet he was on your board. Now, I'm going with guys who were awesome in real life when they were making the movie, which brings me to Hustler from Fast Break, a movie that none of you have ever seen. Fast Break, a movie that came out in 1979.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Bernard King plays Hustler, who's like a pool guy who ended up not going to college, but he was an All-American. And if you watch Fast Break, it's just Bernard King just being amazing. So I'm putting him with Dr. J. And I'm kicking ass with those two guys. Plus, I have a team of Moses Guthrie, Hustler, and Neil McCauley as my GM. I'm feeling great. So there's two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then I'm so excited this guy's on the board. I need a center. He's a little undersized. In Teen Wolf... You can't make him your center? Are you serious? I'm not taking Teen Wolf. Oh, okay. No, you're taking Big Body. If you've watched Teen Wolf enough, number 45, white guy. Teen Wolf, you know, he turns into a wolf than he did in the last game. He got all the praise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The school rallied around him. They're selling merch. Teen Wolf, are we sure he's good? No, well, he was great. Number 45 is just fucking carrying them. You watch that movie, he's protecting the rim. He's rebounding. He's doing everything. It's like heroic to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know what his name was, and I don't even know if he was in the credits, but if you watch, he's like 15, 12, and 5 in the final game. This is an iconic draft from you. So I'm going number 45 on Teen Wolf as my fourth pick. Chris, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Imagine if he was wearing shorts. This guy's wilt. You know, now if they did above the rim now, those would be all threes. Yeah. There was a couple of threes in there, though, wasn't there? He had 10 threes. Yeah. In that game. 10 for 10. I thought he was just taking like 17 footers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Get on second spectrum. Use money from the top of the key. So I have Shep from above the rim. I like that. That's a really good pick. And he goes in with your team of quitters. Jimmy Chip would quit. Shep quit. Neon tried to quit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yes. I thought you were going to go Edwards there. Shit, Shea has two picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Sean, Van thought that it might have culturally expired. Which has happened a few times in our lifetime. Specifically with some actors, too. Like who? I don't know, who have culturally expired. Like Kevin Spacey? Well, that's... That was good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's so cool. He's such a cool guy. Such a cool guy. Great. He came by myself. It was 10 in the morning. He was wearing a leather jacket. It was 78 degrees outside. And he stunk of cigarettes. And I was just like, you're fucking awesome. Sean, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Bedazzled Guy, Wood Harris, Monty McCall, Android, and Snake Plissken on Shay's team right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Not enough balls for that team. I think I need a glue guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I have two picks. It's a big part of the draft for me. I need a guard. Right now I have number 45 from Team Wolfe at center, Moses Guthrie, Hustler, and Neil McCauley as my GM. And I'm going to take Butch McCray from Blue Chips. Keeping my philosophy of real-life basketball players playing characters, this is Penny Hardaway. He had not ended up on Orlando yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I just want to tell you, because this was over 30 years ago, them drafting Penny Hardaway... No! To play with Shaq, but they were both in a movie together. Might have been the single coolest thing in 1993. I think that's why they drafted him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Anyway, so we'll take him. And then I can't believe he's still on the board. I think I'm going to use him as my bench guy. But Fletch during the dream sequence. Fletch with the afro. You know, it's not a long scene, but you can see there's a lot going on there. He's just a force. The other team didn't know what was happening, so Fletch with the afro is my bench guy. What do you got, CR?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Give me air, bud. It's a movie that only makes sense when you have a kid. Yeah. Because it came out, and I was like, this is the fucking stupidest thing ever. And then you have, like, a five-year-old, and they're like, what is... It's like Gone with the Wind for a five-year-old. It's the greatest cinematic achievement anyone's made. A dog scoring baskets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just want to say, we've known each other a long time, and you had seven player spots. You not taking Timo Kroos from Coach Carter is the most shocking moment of my year so far. I don't need him. I don't need him. I just can't believe it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president-elect states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Hey, this is weird. I'm in Austin, Texas. It's freezing cold. We have a Grantland reunion. It's coming up next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Don't forget about the rewatchables. We did Wayne's World this week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'll take Blake Lively as my owner. So you're taking Krista from the town. Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe somebody threw out the Ed Norton. My scouts did look at it. The two-hand dunk. His real name was Derek Vineyard. I'm not taking him. Team chemistry was too risky. Just didn't seem like a great move.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Interesting. There you go. Handsome. Good at his job. He'll represent us well. I think the fans will like him. And he's got a Rob Palenka-y kind of vibe to him. Could see him talking Nico Harrison in a Give Me Away the Farm. I have some questions about Neil reporting to Danny. That's one of the reasons we have Danny. Yeah. Yeah. Uh...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then for one of my assistant coaches, I'm just going to lock him down. Also from Heat. Michael Chiaretto, played by Tom Sizemore. I just feel like you need him every once in a while for that. For me, the action is the juice. Like you just need him in the room for the big moments. So he's on there too. I got him. Sorry, CR.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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How do you see Jack working with Sandy Lyle on your team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, just as an aside on Coach, because he was on my board. He was the one who had the three rules. Always get 12 hours of sleep. Never play cards with a guy who's got the first name as a city. And never go near a lady who has a dagger on her body. You stick with that and everything else is cream cheese. That was Coach Finstock. An absolute legend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, Sean, we're running out of spots. You have two assistant spots, a GM spot. I don't know, that's Shay. I have a GM spot still. Yeah, you have a GM spot still.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can I ask the crowd, where do you guys stand on Triple Frontier? Yeah, see, that's why it's on the list.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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CR, do you think you have one pick or two right now? I think I have one. Don't flip it on me. I just didn't understand what you were doing. What do you got? What do I have left? You need a forward spot, a bench spot, an assistant coach, and a GM. All right, for my bench spot, I'm going to go Jackie Moon from SemiPro.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, you have Jimmy Chitwood, Billy Hoyle, Jim Carroll, and Jackie Moon. Christmas franchise is playing in Utah. What? Or Boston, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So now I have two. I really need a coach, but you need a coach too, right? Oh, you took a coach. Who needs a coach? I did. Am I the only one that needs a coach?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the fact that we're coming up with ideas like this tells you how grim it is for All-Star Weekend. Mm-hmm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, yeah. All right. So I need one more assistant. I thought long and hard about Jim from The Town, but I just feel like somebody would get murdered. That's probably a bad idea. But I really like this guy, and I think he's like a Tom Thibodeau, 2008 type. I know exactly what you're going to say. Who am I going to say? Give her a little taste. No. Fergus from The Town?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm taking Merriman from Den of Thieves. good planner, takes his work seriously, family guy. Donnie planned that heist. Merriman, family guy. Yeah, but Donnie... I got family here, bro. Benny Hanna. He's trying to enjoy a nice silent dinner with his family. So I got Merriman, so that gives me... I have all my assistants. I'm not hiring my head coach yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I still need a guard, and I still need a sixth man. And Teen Wolf is still on the board. And you know what? Not any longer. So I'm taking Teen Wolf. I'm going to have Scott Howard and Teen Wolf. I get them both. And we'll just decide game to game if he's going to be the human or the Teen Wolf. And maybe even during the game, he'll turn into Teen Wolf.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I think it'd be really hard to prepare for. You're like, is he going to do the Wolf thing today? Or is it just going to be, oh, he's just a 5'4 point guard who can't dribble today. But the other team's going to be on their toes, so I'm taking Teen Wolf.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And can we do that breaking the... Edward, that would be funny for the social video they make where people are like, what the fuck happened in Austin?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You just entered a world of shit. Every December, he's going to be talking about how he needs more help. Like, I don't know if Shep from above the rim is enough and forward. Got to get a better score.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, Fantasy, you're up, and you need a... I need two assistants. And you need a center. I have you with three spots left. What about Wancho Hernan Gomez? I have him at... You can have him at seven. I have him at forward. Do you have a center? Ricky Rowe is at four. Here's what I have for your team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Jesus Shuttlesworth, Bo Cruz, Uncle Drew, Sidney Dean, Ricky Rowe, and Sandy Lyle as your six players. And Wancho Hernan Gomez. Yeah, that's... That's Bo Cruz. That's six guys, yeah. But you can have a seventh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Coked out wearing a turtleneck. Shay, do you like ambulance? I do like ambulance, yeah. It just hasn't gotten me yet, but I know it will. It'll get you. It's just one of those things. I know it's going to happen at some point. It just hasn't happened yet. Let us know. Yeah, I'll let you know. I'll keep you all posted. Shay, you got two. All right. So here's Shay's team. Oh, tell them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Bedazzled Brendan Frazier, Snake Plissken... Wood Harris. What was his character? Muta?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Monica McCall. Android guy. What movie was that? Prometheus. Yeah. Air Bud. Spaceman. Coach Finstock coaching. And Dalton Russell is the owner. So you need two assistants and a GM. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Did you just tell me that Ray Merriman was a bad pick? Did I hear you say those words?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Shay, how would David Stern have handled the NBA in 2025? Oh, my God. I think about this a lot. He's like the angry grandparent you had that you were like, oh, man. He would have been so mad. I hate grandpa. He's so annoying.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's right. Well, where are you putting him? Because you can't put him at forward because Tom Cruise is 5'8". Is he? Is he guard? He's your sixth man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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See, cocktail's a good example. They didn't make a Cocktail 2, and thank God. Because Cocktail 1 didn't need a sequel, and they would have fucked it up, and it would have been like him owning the bar, and then we would have had the memory of Cocktail 2.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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How do you feel about the coaches meeting with birdie from above the rim, rusty from oceans, 11 and drunk shooter game plan into that. I would love to be a part of that dinner out. You know, Chris, this culture she's building. All right. So I have two picks left and I need a coach. And I'm not taking Norman Dale because I've written about this, but if you watch Hoosiers, he's secretly terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know what he was doing. Almost doesn't design the last play of the game for Jimmy Chitwood. Yeah, he abandons him. Jimmy Chitwood was 20 for 21 in the game. He's like, all right, we're going to do this instead. Not doing him. Pete Bell, I looked at for a while. But, you know, he had a point shaving scandal on his team. I can't have that in my locker room.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I got to go with my guy, Gabe Kaplan and fast break. You could see when I do the podcast, you see the fast break poster behind. I love Gabe Kaplan. He was in fast break and welcome back Cotter at the same time, which has still never been approached in Hollywood history. Sean, can you think of a twofer like that? I can't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Gabe Kaplan gets the job. He's got to go to Las Vegas, and he just cheats and gets all these people who shouldn't be in college. He does all these crazy things, and he's my coach. I still need a sixth man, though. And it's not going to be Ed Norton in American History X. Sorry to disappoint you guys. You know, man, there's some good ones left. Kyle Watson in Above the Rim, I'm going to go with.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You know, great value late in the thing. It was a little me first for the first, what, hour of the movie? Yeah. Little like LaMelo on Charlotte, just getting his stats as the team loses. And then slowly figured it out and became a team guy. Set up Shep, road Shep in the final game. Like Schroeder's arc, right? Where we're like, oh, a little too ball first, maybe me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, so he's my sixth man. What do you got for your last pick, Chris?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, you know, you need a... A GM. Oh. And I took Neil McCauley off the fucking board.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Because he invented the internet? Yeah. Sean, last pick. You need an assistant coach. Yeah, easy one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Now You See Me was a movie that came out in the theater? Yeah. It made like $300 million. It's a good movie. Is that not on the list for you? Now You See Me? So people who didn't get taken... Junior from Coach Carter did not get taken. The guy from the year up there did not get taken. Sala.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Flatch from Hoosiers, who all he did was go through a trophy case, put a bandage on it, and keep going, trying to rebound. He didn't go. We mentioned American History X guy. Lewis Scott from Celtic Pride. Nobody jumped on that. Buddy from Hoosiers who quit the team came back and really became a lockdown defender. Shades of Dyson Daniels on the Hawks this year. Nobody took the like Mike guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Calvin Cambridge. Nobody took Andre 3000's character from Semi-Pro, Clarence Withers. Yeah, Chris took Jackie Moon. I thought... Nobody took the kid from Finding Forrester. Yeah, Jamal Wallace. Liked his game. How about Odin James from O? Was he on anyone's board? No, but that's funny.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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This is a rough podcast for Eddie because there were no Eddie picks, including Stacey Patton, played by Malik Sealy. Would you have included Kevin Garnett from Uncut Gems as eligible? Yeah, that could have been a good pick. Nobody took Quincy McCall. You took his wife. Quincy was a bust. Strap from Hoosiers and Chubby from Teen Wolf were the big bench guys that I think were pretty shocked by.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And then nobody took Jim. I guess nobody wanted Jim in the locker room. So here are the teams. And you guys can decide who won. Chris Ryan. Neon Boudot, LeBron from Trainwreck, Shep from Above the Rim, Jimmy Chitwood, Billy Hoyle, Jim Carroll from the Basketball Diaries, Jackie Moon, and a coaching staff of Birdie, Rusty, and Shooter. With Kelso as the GM and Krista from the town as the owner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Do people in Austin... So do you lean toward the Spurs? Or like what's the... Okay. So when the Mavericks... So you guys are just Luka fans? Okay. So when the Mavericks traded Luka, you guys are just laughing your asses off?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So that's Krista's team. Fantasy has Bo Cruz at center, a little undersized. Jesus Shuttlesworth, Ricky Rowe, Uncle Drew, Sidney Dean. I wrote somebody down twice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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People want to get your guys in foul trouble and see if Brian Flanagan or Sandy Lyle... That's very Tibbs of you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Jack from the way back as your coach. Yep. Danny Sharp, Bodie is your assistant. Tom from Triple Frontier. I'm so glad I got an ovation from the crowd. And then Joe Cabot is your owner. And then my team, a little undersized with number 45 from Team Wolfe at center, but the guy's a fighter, man. I just believe in him. Moses Guthrie and Hustler, two real NBA players.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Butch McCray, a guard with Teen Wolf. That backcourt's amazing. I think Fandle just made me the favorite. Kyle Watson coming off the bench with Fletch with an afro. Gabe Kaplan, Merriman, and Michael Chiaretto as my coaching staff. Neil McCauley as the GM and Danny Ocean as the owner. And then here's Shea. All right, so I didn't read the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Bedazzled Brendan Fraser, Stake Plissken, Wood Harris, Manu McCall, Android, Air Bud, Spaceman, Coach Finstock, Donny, Eisenberg, TT from Set It Off, and Dalton Russell. Yeah, baby. Yeah, baby. Is that our winner? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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This feels like a hometown verdict. We never had a chance. He already said he was going to fight all if he stole the Spurs from San Antonio. Now you're rooting for his team? All right. What was the most surprising pick for you, C.R. ?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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That's going to wrap it up for us. Sierra, what are you working on? You still podcasting? Just cranking out different stuff, yeah. Still doing the watch? Yeah. Oh, the watch? Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Because we have like 40. Do you think you've been on half of them at this point?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What are you doing, Bill? What am I doing? I'm just getting ready for the playoffs, baby. We got a... The Celtics thing on HBO Celtics City March 3rd. So, no, don't boo. It's a great achievement. It's an NBA doc as much as a Celtics doc. I really think you guys will like it. So we got that coming. We got some good music box stuff coming as well. SG back on the Red Sox? Pregnant? Excited?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And USA Canada, the most important sporting event of our lifetime tomorrow night. Thank you all for coming out. Thank you for the freezing cold weather and the pneumonia. And we love seeing you guys. Thank you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Chris and Sean and Shay. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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As always, don't forget you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch it on Spotify. Hopefully you're watching on Spotify right now. And I will see you on Sunday with Rizella.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What was your reaction when you heard the trade CR? I never had you. Is Dirk here? Only people I didn't have on a podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Don't forget about the Prestige TV podcast. We're doing White Lotus and Severance covered all of it. I'm there on Sunday nights as well. My Sunday night podcast with Priscilla is coming back

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I know you're a student of journalism, Sean. Have you been following some of these features with the Mavs? We weren't actually going to give Luca the Max extension. People didn't realize because we're idiots. So we weren't going to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Just be like, what year did the ABA and NBA merge? He's like, ah, 1988.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Don't you? Well, I like the fact that we always seem to have six to eight terrible run teams. That's great for us for content. But the real thing that's interesting is the Lakers are villainous again. Because they pull off this trade. And then they trade for Mark Williams. And then they just void the trade. They're like, we don't like it. This hasn't happened in like two decades.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And Mark Williams is like, I'm healthy. I'm fine. No, actually, no thanks. And then the trade deadline passed. Charlotte couldn't trade him. But like if somebody did this in your fantasy league. It would be the angriest chain of emails ever. And people would stop talking. It's like, Bob's not invited to Gary's wedding now. Oh, it's because of Mark Williams' trade? Yeah, that's what happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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this sunday i think i hope hopefully hopefully russo knows we'll have to tell him uh anyway what you're about to listen to is me and sean fennessey and chris ryan and shay serrano going to austin texas where for some reason it's 30 degrees was not on the agenda for me but uh we're here anyway and we put together a big show at the paramount theater uh there was 1100 people

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Seriously, they haven't voided their trade in 15 years yet. And apparently when you make a trade, you send the team the medicals and they can look at them. So I think they just said, fuck it, we don't want this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Are you guys on my side that more people knew about this trade than everyone's letting on? Because I think a lot of people knew and then they're all like, we didn't know. Found out last second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No offense to him, I don't believe it. I think both coaches knew. I think Anthony Davis knew. I think the agent knew. He had to waive the no trade clause. I'm just never going to believe it. They're never going to convince me. I think LeBron knew. But Luca had no idea. I think Luca was the only one that didn't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The Mavericks were like, yeah, he didn't know because he was out there getting fucking drunk and eating fried chicken. Lazy motherfucker. It's like binging Netflix. So, Shay, the Luka Doncic movie, when they make it, is it a TV movie, like a Ryan Murphy type of movie? Is it a sports movie? Is it a dark, seedy drama that Sean would really like and do multiple big picture episodes of?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You want to walk through the heist movie with Luka Doncic with Palenka as Neil McCauley?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What you're laying out, though, because then Cuban, maybe Cubans like. Cause he's bitter that he sold the team. So he wants them to destroy the team. And he's like, he's like drugging Nico Harrison. Yeah. This is like, it's getting dark. It's like traffic. That would be great. Kevin Durant. You guys like Kevin Durant, right? He loves Austin. KD's a little bit of a nomad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You know, starts out in OKC nine years there, goes to Golden State, goes to Brooklyn, goes to Phoenix, almost gets traded in the deadline. And yet I think we all like him. I always feel like I'm like a KD defender. You saw the clip this week from the new Netflix series about the Olympics. And KD just starts crying. He loves basketball so much.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Like, I really think he's one of the most genuine athletes ever. that we have, but also takes a ton of shit. Shay, what do you want his next five years to look like?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So two years, like Wemby's first. I can't believe he's in the finals this young. He's only 22. And he's part of that with Daniel Fox. I like that. What do you think, Shaq?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Basketball Movie Character Draft LIVE From Austin, Texas, With Shea Serrano, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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apparently that are coming to this. I'm taping this before the show. I hope it goes well. Wish us luck. Let's bring in Pearl Jam. Why the fuck is it so cold? What the hell? We could've gone to Chicago or Winnipeg. Thanks to Michelob Ultra for sponsoring this. We're so happy to be here. We love being in Austin. I'm gonna introduce, you guys don't know who's here tonight, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Coming up, I have an NBA midseason power poll plus college football. A lot of it next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And instead of getting towns and bridges, they basically took all those assets and just had Embiid. And then what happened with Embiid this year, 13 games, 389 minutes, was happening in New York after they had this super fun team last year. It's a bullet dodge, my friends. Anyway, they are number 23, and I think we can cross them off as the title contender. I'm ready to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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You can wear it when you're training, traveling, lounging around the house. Go get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. Here's the deal. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons. Once again, V-U-O-R-I.com slash Simmons. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I don't have any rewatchables for you this week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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New Orleans, up to 22. They're 10 and 32. We knew they would be a what the fuck happened to that team in the West, and they're the team. They had a stretch where their body language was the worst in the league. Their home court, when they do the wide shot, all the seats in mid court, like maybe one third of them are full. The energy is just super, super, super weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They should probably be doing everything possible to suck at this point. And yet, when you watch them, which I've watched a couple games, they've turned into a really fun league pass team. Trey Murphy's playing great. Zion's back. Murray's back. They're a good team when everybody's playing. They're not a great team, but they're a good team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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You would think they were like a six to 10 playoff seed potentially with everybody. They haven't had anybody, but they're 10 and 32. And I don't know what the move is because it's really hard for them to tank when they have as many good players as they do. I mean, one thing they got to get credit for, they just nail their draft pick every year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Like Messi has a chance to win rookie of the year this year. Every year it seems like they hit their pick. Trey Murphy, who they just re-signed, but Hawkins. I like all these guys. And they have a bunch of trade assets. Ingram, 36 million expiring. Zion, 36.7 with outs every year. McCollum, 33 and 30.6. Sorry, CJ, for mentioning you in a trade rumor. Murray, 29.5. They have moves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I just don't know what the move is. And my guess is they'll probably limp along for the next month and try to figure out what they are and if they keep winning games. Maybe start trying to talk themselves into or run it to 10 seed, which would kind of be insane. But what else are you going to do? You have all these good basketball players who are trying to play hard. This is a team to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's a team to watch from a spoiler standpoint, from a trade machine standpoint. And then the Zion piece of it, where he just, he goes away for four or five, six weeks, whatever it was, comes back and looks really good. It doesn't look fat or out of shape. And you're like, whoa, this is going great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And then the story comes out, they have to suspend him because he's repeatedly late to practices and stuff. And you just got this guy just never, ever going to get it. I would still trade for him if I was a team like San Antonio. We'll get to that in a second. Next category, the trade machine heroes. Phoenix, number 21. They're 19 and 20.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Their last 15 games, they're basically 22nd net, 26 defense for points per 100 possessions. This team's just not good. You can talk yourself into, oh, they just got... I don't see it. I watched them play whoever, and I'm very invested in them because this is going to be probably the first FanDuel Super Boost we've lost since 2020. We thought they were going to get 47-plus wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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We thought they were going to shoot a bunch of threes. Brasilo House and I were all aligned on it. And then you watch them, and I just don't see it. They can't rebound. They can't protect the rim. The guys don't seem like they like playing with each other. You watch them play a team, I don't know, like pick a bad team. Like they'll play like Charlotte or Washington or whoever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And you're watching the back and forth. You're like, I'm not sure they're much better than this other team. The league's just really good and really deep. And what's funny, Katie and Booker are both over 36 minutes a game, and they've actually had them for most of the year. It's a team that makes more sense on paper in 2017 than in 2025 when you need depth. They just threw away depth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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We did record a long, giant mailbag that we're going to run on Monday's episode, and then we'll be back to a normal schedule after that. So thanks for your patience on that one. You can also check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel for a lot of the old rewatchables we've done, as well as the Spotify archives. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where we're still doing 30 on 30.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The Beal trade was Chris Paul, Shamit, 2024, 26, 28, and 30 first round swaps with Washington and a bunch of seconds for Beal. And it was a terrible trade when it happened. I hated it. I thought they left themselves with no outs. I was not a giant Beal guy. And now he's at 50, 53.7 and 57 million for this year and the next two with a no trade clause and they can't trade him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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He knows they can't trade him. I'm not sure he gives a crap. They have Nurkic at 18 and 19. They have Grayson Allen at basically 16 this year and then three more years after that. And those are their trade assets. And nobody wants Beal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Not one team. I don't know what they do. I do know this. I was thinking about the worst big threes of all time. Because we did use the big three. I didn't. But we used the big three word with Durant and Booker and Beal. This is up there for worst big three of all time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But I think the answer, as much as I love Steve Nash, is Kobe and Dwight and Nash that one year at the Lakers when people were calling them the big three. And then Nash was like his body just completely broke down. Kobe hated Dwight. That's probably our worst big three. You could talk me into LeBron and AD and Russ.

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Some people try to get it going when Russ and Paul George and Carmelo were on the same team that one year. But this is like a possible Mount Rushmore, oh my God, I can't believe we called them the big three kind of situation. It's also another unhappy Kevin Durant team. So we have the 2019 Warriors, unhappy. 2022 and 23 Nets, unhappy, unhappy. 2024 Suns, unhappy. 2025 Suns, currently unhappy.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I'm just flagging it. Maybe it's a coincidence.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And it's like, well, Jimmy Butler really wants to go to Phoenix. Cool. You're going to have to trade Kevin Durant or Devin Booker for Jimmy Butler because you're not getting him for Bradley Beal. Nobody wants that contract. Nobody wants Bradley Beal. I think he's the number one trade asset you don't want in the entire league. Sorry, Bradley Beal, but it's true.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The Suns are the guy in your fantasy league who texts you and tries to trade you DeAndre Swift for Brock Bowers. Hey, I see you need a running back. What about Swift for Bowers? And you're just like, dude, stop. Nobody wants Beal. Nobody wants Nurkic. It's like, yeah, you're not getting Vucevic for Nurkic and a couple of number twos. Stop. It's not happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The whole league is annoyed by the Suns. It's a really important point. Everyone in the league is like, Ishby is just on a bender and this team is insane and stop calling us. Miami at number 20, speaking of Bradley Beal. They're 20 and 19.

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It's weird, they're, you know, in the top half of the league in offense and defense, they're getting an awesome Tyler Hero year, who at the end of some of these games has really been a pretty special offensive player sometimes. You watch, you catch a certain heat game with two minutes left and he's just like slicing and dicing somebody.

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I think that's one of the reasons Butler might not have been 100% happy with this Miami situation because when you watch him, there's games where Hero just seems like a way better option at the end of games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Bam's offensively is just taking a huge step back, and I don't really know whether it's an aberration or what's going on there, but it's worth mentioning that I don't think he's as big of an asset as he was last year. Maybe it'll come back. But if you don't get a star back in a Jimmy Butler trade, what's the point of this team? Because your top two is Bam and Hero. Congratulations.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's a profit boost token. We do it on Fridays. Any 30 plus point score or 30 on 30 special bet gets boosted with a little profit boost. Like for instance, Shea Gilgis Alexander is playing Dallas on Friday. The team that knocked him out of the playoffs. They don't have Luka. If you think he's going to get a little revenge game, just put a little 30 plus on it.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I don't know where that's getting you with the way the league is now with how deep and awesome it is. So with Jimmy, no deal works with Houston and Memphis because they don't want them. Dallas or Milwaukee, they don't have anything they could trade back.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Sacramento, there's like a DeRozan, Herter, Trey Lyles, or Keegan Murray, but if I'm Sacramento, I don't want to deal with Jimmy Butler and trade for him, and then he's unhappy in Sacramento, and then he's opting in for 50 plus next year. I'm not doing that. Denver, I don't think Miami takes Michael Porter Jr. plus Najee, which I think that would basically have to be the trade.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I'm also not sure Jimmy Butler solves whatever issue Denver has because they're already shaky enough with three-point shooting, and then they're going to get rid of Michael Porter Jr. I don't like that trade for anybody. Plus, Denver's playing better. Phoenix, they're not taking Beal. Golden State's not trading Wiggins and Kaminga and other stuff for Jimmy Butler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And if I'm Miami, I'm not trading Jimmy unless I can get Zion in a three-way. I mean, a basketball three-way. Ingram and McCollum together from New Orleans with Butler and Regier going out. I would consider that. I don't know why New Orleans would do that. Tobias Harris and Tim Hardaway's expiring, plus maybe a protected pick from Detroit.

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It's a little more interesting because Kate has become a top 20 player in the league. And if you're the Pistons, you could just turn, you basically make a 30 cents in the dollar trade and get Jimmy Butler and hope that he's excited for the next year and a half. Paul George mentioned earlier, no way. And then there's maybe a trade where you just get cap space back.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But I thought for sure Jimmy Butler was going to get traded. And then the more I kind of sniffed around, talked to different people, tried to figure out the trades. I don't think there's a trade. So I don't know what happens here. And maybe there's a surprise team. Like, oh my God, the Pistons traded for him. There's one team coming up later that we'll mention for this.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But I'm really having trouble and I'm the trade machine, Picasso. We'll take a break and we'll finish the PowerPoll right after this. Sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you can get a 30% profit boost from The Ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. That's right.

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The Ringer, teaming up with America's number one sportsbook to give you a 30% profit boost when you either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game to have both teams score 30 plus points in the first quarter. Looking at the Friday slate, I would target...

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Shea on OKC going against Dallas, the team that knocked them out in the playoffs last year to get a little revenge 30 plus. So you can go there, look at all the matchups, pick whatever you want, ride with that pick, make your own, look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduel.com slash BS for your choice to score a bigger payout this Friday.

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Don't miss your chance to find out how much more 30 can be worth with FanDuel's 30 on 30. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in DC. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fielder.com.

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Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto? That's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.

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Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. All right, next category for the Power Poll is the feel-good upstarts.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Get the profit boost token, and all is great. So look for 30 on 30 on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Coming up on this podcast, it's basically mid-season NBA, so I wanted to get down a giant power pole and count everybody from 30 to one. So we did that, and it took longer than I thought. Sorry, I had a lot to say. Followed by Joel Anderson.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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That can only be the Detroit Pistons. I have them number 19th. They're 21 and 19. They had a huge bummer with Jaden Ivey getting hurt, which a game that I was actually watching when it happened in a play that, the guy diving for the loose ball goes into the side of somebody's leg that you just think would happen more often in the NBA and never does. And then when it happens, it's awful.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But that was a bummer because they were really starting to figure out something with him and Cade. I really liked when he would come set to pick for Cade and they would kind of do this small man's pick and roll thing. So Cade is basically 24, 7, and 10. And he's 45%, 38% from three. He's gonna be on the all-star team. And he's turned into an awesome asset.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And we were unclear the first couple years, especially with the way the team was losing. But I am willing to redo now my number one pick since Tim Duncan list, where... There's eight definitive nos. You would not take this guy again. Ayton, Fultz, Simmons, Bennett, Oden, Bargnani, Kwame Brown, Oluwakandi. I still can't believe Oluwakandi went first.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The late 90s were unbelievable for basketball content. I really wish I'd had a bigger audience back then. The sort of list, there's seven guys. Zion, Wiggins, Wall, Bogut, Kmart, Elton Brand. I'm going to put Risa Shea in there too because I like Risa Shea. He's like 19. We have no idea what's going to happen with him. But that's like a sort of. You can see it. There's a case for it.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Some of those guys like Zion and maybe even Wiggins, maybe the next five years will even boost them into the yes category. And then the yes guy, you would take this again. Wemby, Paolo, Edwards. Three great ones. Three great number one overall picks there. Anthony Davis, Kyrie, Blake Griffin, Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard, LeBron, Yao. That was 10 the last time I did this. We have two additions.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I think Carl Anthony Towns is officially a yes. he's been a really good number one overall pick, especially the fact that he was part of a really good Minnesota team last year that almost made the finals. And then this year, you know, one of the, one of the best 12 players in the league so far. So he's in there. And then I think Kate is a yes though.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I think when you think about, did that number one overall pick, did that work? Did that kind of work? Did that not work? He definitely 100% worked. So kudos to him. I'm still interested to see what they do with Tobias Harris and Hardaway as trade bait, because you can get to 41 million with them. They also have this 14 million under the cap situation. So there's a lot of fun stuff they can do.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And the fact that they're over 500, even without Ivy in an Eastern conference, that has been pretty weird. I'd like to see them do something. All right, next team, Sacramento number 18. They are 20 and 20. This team would have been a three seed six years ago, and now they have a fired coach, and I don't know what the hell they are. They fired Mike Brown. They lost the first game.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They won a couple goofy games that they shouldn't have won, and now got the momentum, and now all of a sudden the vibes are good. It's like, see, that's why we fired Mike Brown. I'm not sure that was the difference. Obviously not in the locker room, but I just think they had some bad luck earlier in the season and they got some better luck later. Now DeRozan's starting to look better.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Fox missed a couple games. I was watching them because House and Sal and I and Hench, we did a parlay over under wins total bet like three weeks ago and one of them was Sacramento under. I think it was like 42 wins. And we were like, Sacramento, this team's falling apart. And then they fired the coach five days later. And now it's coming back with Doug Christie, former star of basketball wise.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I don't know what happens with them. I'll tell you this though. There was a moment with the Kings where it felt like they were full Kangs. And you go, they're 13 coaches in 20 years. They had that light to beam season. Then they overextended Sabonis. They did the Barnes extension. Vizenkov, that signing was terrible. They blew the Devin Carter pick. They did the Rosendale.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Recent addition to The Ringer, who we're going to talk sports culture and a lot of college football, then Van Lathan comes in to talk about the championship game and Joel's five favorite things in college football. So that is part one of this podcast because... I'm going to do a part two later with NFL and Million Dollar Picks. That's going to go up, I don't know, 10, 11 hours from now.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And it's just like, oh, the Kings are back. But now they're playing well. So I don't know. I'm sure their fans are confused too. Interesting playing team, by the way. Because Fox, you know, Fox and Sabonis, they have two of the top 25 guys in the league. So I'm not positive I would want to see them in the 8-9 game. Lakers, I have 17th, 21 and 17.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They're still in the bottom 10 in the league on defense. They're in the bottom five in the league rebounding. Two things that scare me. There was a Dallas game last week when Dallas abused Austin Reeves to the point that I thought Reeves' corner was going to throw in the towel. And that's the rub with this Lakers team is that any smart team can just attack them defensively.

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And it's like, pick your guy. Do you want to attack Reeves? Oh, Connect's out there? Let's attack him. Oh, LeBron's decided not to move around on defense today. Let's just start doing back cuts and making him move around. They're just too easy to score on. I like the Finney-Smith trade though. And Max Christie's playing better and I don't dislike the roster.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I think they have real issues that are going to surface in the playoffs. But as a regular season team, especially when LeBron plays well or Davis plays well in any given game, it feels like they can beat just about anybody except for like seven teams. But for the most part, this team not even close to being a contender to me. I can't. It would be a miracle if they won one round.

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And the LeBron plus minus stuff is pretty strange. Like I did that like a week ago, I looked it up. He had the worst plus minus of anyone who's playing 30 minutes or more in a winning team. It was minus 6.2. It's mostly the defense, but if I were them, if Jeannie Buss asked me what to do, I would tell them not to trade any assets. I don't understand the point of doing that.

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There's no scenario where they make the finals. There's no trade out there that would put them in the finals, so. Golden State, number 16, probably in a similar situation. I think the difference is they're in top five defensive rating. They have a bunch of tradable stuff and they desperately need a second scorer. And you could see a world where if they got a second guy who could help out Steph,

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Maybe they become friskier. They're well coached. They have a lot of continuity together. The problem is if you get somebody like Jimmy Butler, you're going to have to give up Wiggins in the trade. Now I'm losing stuff defensively. I'm losing other assets. So the trade that makes sense to me is Vucevic. And it's made sense for, I would say, about a month and a half.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And it's basically, you know, Looney can be in and he makes $8 million. Moses Moody, put Peyton's expiring in there or another, Kyle Anderson, whatever you need to do. Throw in a pick and just add Vucevic and kind of have him playing off with Curry. I think somebody told me this. Curry's never had a stretch five in his entire career.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Every guy in the league has played with somebody, a three who could make a three, and he's just never had it. Curry's at an interesting point in his career because they've cut his minutes down to like 31 minutes a game. His per 36 is still right around where you want it to be. Like his 26 a game, 45%, 42% from three.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But I did my ringer 100 and I couldn't justify putting him in the top 10 anymore, at least right now. It could change in a month. But if he's your best player on a team and the supporting cast is solid, you're just not a contender.

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So that is the schedule. Everything is okay here in Southern California. Definitely better than it was three days ago. Still terrible, but we got through all the wins on Tuesday and Wednesday. And now the recovery and all that stuff is... In full swing, I'm gonna talk about some charities and stuff that I like in part two of the podcast. So here's part one.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So when I did my top 100, I had Jokic first, Giannis second, I put Shea third, Tatum fourth, Luka fifth for now because he's hurt and there's durability stuff with him that I'm not positive about.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And Curry versus... Edwards and Brunson, I think, is the big question there. But those guys are just more reliable night to night at this point. Curry's 36. It's just the way it is. If it was one game with my life on it, it's a different question. But if we're talking about a regular season, I don't see how he's in the top 10 right now. That could change. Next category, the young and funds.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Oh, by the way, with Golden State, I don't... This is not the Jimmy Butler team for me. Not worth it. The young and funds... I only have one team in this, Atlanta. I have them 15th, 21 and 19. They got Trey going a little bit. We talked about Trey like a month ago. He's up to 23 a game, 12 assists. His shooting percentages are up a little bit.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And he's had some good games when other guys weren't playing. You can kind of see, oh, this is a game I get to shoot 33 times. I still really like this team as like a stealth. You'll beat them in round one, but it's probably not going to be that easy. Their three-point shooting is the thing that's been really hurtful to them.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Daniel's 31%, Risa Shea 28%, Jalen Johnson 32%, Bogdanovich 34%, not as high as he used to be. I'm still in on these guys. And they've never had all their guys together for more than like two weeks. So when everybody comes back, I don't think they're a trade team to try to get a better asset, but I think they're gonna be around 44, 45 wins.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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That's where I have them penciled in, just because the East is gonna really start tanking. That brings to the next category, secretly scary round one opponents. You could talk yourself into Atlanta being there, but Indiana number 15, definitely. They're 22 and 19. They're 11th in pace this year. They were second last year, so they're a little slower. I think that's Siakam related.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They're ninth in offense this year. They were second last year. But the last 15 games, they're fourth in offense. They've had no knee Smith for 35 games. Hal Burns had a weird year, and every time it seems like he gets going, something happened. He just hurt his hamstring. In general, I like this team. And I like what I've seen from Walker the last couple weeks from them.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I want to see this team in March. This team is like a pause button. Let's see what you look like on March 10th. And then San Antonio is the other team like that. They're 19 and 20. They're always hanging around these games and they haven't quite figured out how to close them. I think last night was a really good example against Memphis, which was an awesome game.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They played the most fun game of the season against Denver a couple Fridays ago. That was the... Wemby is officially here. We knew he was already here, but he's officially here now game where Jokic praised him afterwards and talked about how he was generationally special. Really cool moment. Wemby's 25-11, four assists, four blocks a game.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Their defense is sixth in the last 15, which is why you have to consider them a scary playoff team. Wemby... We should have a different defensive player of the year award now because he should just get it every year. We should actually have the number two guy should get a separate award. Nobody's ever winning this award again until Wemby's like 35, assuming he stays healthy.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I was talking about him with somebody yesterday. He's a foot longer than everybody realizes when they're playing. One of the most fun things about watching him is every... every game there's four or five moments where somebody is in the paint and they think they're going to get them or they think they're going to shoot a floater or they think they're going to get a layup past them.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Gonna do the mid-season power pole in one second. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. It's the January 16th, almost mid-season NBA Power Poll. We're going to go from team number 30 all the way down to team number one. Separated by sections. I'm going to get off a bunch of takes. So going backwards, there's five teams that are just openly tanking right now.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And they just forget he's got this extra foot that his body goes up. And they're always like, Oh, and even as they're shooting it, he's going up and they're realizing mid shot. Oh God, he's going to block this. And they can't stop it because their body has already committed to it. But, uh,

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The fact that he's growing like he is, which is not surprising, and then Castle has shown some stuff like he did last night against Memphis. Castle, I think the second half of the year is worth watching as what's his ceiling. This is a terrifying round one team. I don't want to see Wemby in a series, period.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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There was a play last night in the fourth quarter where he ended up with the ball on the left side of the foul line where if he turned into the paint, he could have shot a jump hook. And he never goes there. He's always around the three-point line. They always run stuff with him 25 feet from the basket.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And in this play, he had the ball because a play broke down and they gave it to him on top of the foul line. And the other team immediately panicked. He had, the point guard came down and doubled him. Then he turned into the lane. The third guy came in. So now he's being triple teamed. And then somebody back cut and he was able to pass the guy and get a layup.

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And it made me think like when he realizes that the foul line is where he needs to be, that's his spot. The same way Nowitzki realized it, the same way Duncan figured out his spot. I talked about this with Kurt Goldsberry a couple of weeks ago. What are his spots on the floor? That left side of the foul line

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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where he can turn and he can either shoot a little 15-footer or he can put his head down into the paint, jump hook, or pass to a cutter, but everything is coming with his right hand. He can hold the ball up like it's a fucking grape. That's the key to Wemby, I think, going forward.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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If he figures out that spot, plus he has the top of the key and the ability to shoot threes, those two things combined, I just think he's going to be an absolute bitch in the playoff. And I'll tell you something else. This is the number one, holy shit, I can't believe they traded for Jimmy Butler team, where the Spurs just say, fuck it. This guy's the sixth best guy in the league.

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Maybe we should see what's up. Um, would they do that with their culture? I don't know. This is also a holy shit. They traded for Zion team, which if I was dispersed, that would be the guy I targeted. Bring them into our organization, our culture, put him with Wemby. Now this is the most terrifying circle on anyone's schedule. It's like, oh my God, we have to play Wemby and Zion today. All right.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Next category, puncher's chance, Minnesota. I can't rule them out yet. They're 21 and 19. I have them 12th. They're up to fifth in defense. They were first last year, but now they're fifth, so that's better. Here's the thing. They finally realized something that I've touted on this podcast many, many times over the years and in my column, and it's something I just instinctively believe in.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Just play your best five guys. Stop worrying about positions. Oh, we need somebody who's... People always do this with point guards where it's like, well, that guy looks like a point guard. Mike Conley, Godspeed, great career. Really enjoyed him. Incredible teammate. Everybody loves him. It's over. It happens. This is what happens to point guards. He's done. It's a wrap.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So they realized a couple weeks ago we should just play DiVincenzo. and not have a point guard. And DiFrancengio is reinvested and has been playing really well and they're playing better. There's a Conley with Randle where that can get them to about 43 million. They'd have to take somebody back who makes less than that. I don't know if they'd even trade Conley.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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There's no trade for him straight up because he's got another year after this one. But there's still a move with them. And part of that move has to be maybe get Julius Randle out of here. The thing with the Towns trade, which I think has just worked out horribly for them. And this was the worst case scenario of the trade, which was that it boxed them in. Nobody really wants Randle.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Now they had to re-sign Conley. Nobody wants him. But it was a financial trade. And it's yet another reason why Glenn Taylor is one of the five worst NBA owners we've had. The move to trade towns and then extend Gobert to try to get him on a cheaper deal was just a fucking double whammy. You can't bounce back from that. And the lesson, as always, is A-Rod is a loser.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The sleeper, number 11, Orlando. They're 28th offensively. There's only two teams in the league worse per 100 possessions than Orlando. And yet, They're four games over .500. Their defense and their camaraderie and their feistiness and their competitiveness has just carried them in all these games. They're opposing rebounding their first. Teams are only 40.6 rebounds a game against them.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So they're dominating the boards. They're great against the three. Teams are 31% against them with the three. And they get steals. They get all this stuff. The zombie magic. Unfortunately, they can't shoot and they can't score. Paolo came back. Franz is eventually coming back. And nobody wants to play this team. They're six seed, seven seed, eight seed. I don't want to see them.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The Celtics are the three seed and Orlando's the six seed. I'm bummed. That's a really hard team to play. It did make me think, though, this is a good example of NBA depth being deeper in a significant way than it was 13 years ago. You're talking about players like 75 to 300 are so much better than they were in the early 2010s. They have De Silva. Oh, let's just throw him in.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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He's not even playing. Now he's in there and we're going to him in crunch time. But Tadzee. I think that's how you say his name. Isaac, Cole Anthony, Anthony Black. These guys are all good. I was looking at the 2012 Celtics, a team that was up 3-2 in the Eastern Conference Finals with a chance to go to the finals. This was their 5-10 guys in that series.

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Michael Pietras, Brandon Bass, Keon Dooling, Marquise Daniels, Greg Steamsma, and Ryan Hollins.

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I'm putting them in the capture the flag territory for Cooper flag. Getting a lot of buzz lately, that Cooper flag. I don't care if they do six foot seven. He's going to be awesome. Washington, six and 32. Charlotte, nine and 28. Toronto, 10 and 31. Utah, 10 and 29. That's our 30 to 27 rankings. What's interesting is none of those teams... really have an awesome trade piece.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Still can't get a feel for if this team is a contender or not. They're the league's best coach, solid team. The bottom seven offense, top five defense. They have a pretty good home court advantage now. They have Kawhi at least at the point where I'm interested to see where it is in March and April.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They have this Norm Powell jumping from 14 points a game to almost 24 at age 31, which I think we need a new award. I would get rid of Clutch Player. I never know how to vote that. I would replace it with the Tommy from Goodfellas. Look at this fucking guy. That would be my award. And Norm Powell would win because I have no idea how we went from 14 to 24, but we did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Harden is interesting because on the one hand, he's one of the reasons that they've overachieved. On the other hand, a lot of his best games seem to come against shit defenses or mediocre teams. And then the worst games, if you really watch carefully, it's like against Houston, OKC, San Antonio, Boston, Minnesota. So there's some fool's gold with the heart and pace, 35% from three, 44% on twos.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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He seems like he's the same, but he's not. He can still give you a good quarter, but not a whole game. And they really need Kawhi back for me to take them seriously. So that's the last non-contender for me until we see with Kawhi. All right, next group, definitely lurking. Milwaukee, I have them ninth, 21 and 17. They still have Giannis. That's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They're shooting threes way better than I think anyone expected. They're in the top three there. Really good in corner threes. And I don't want to see them in the playoffs. That's okay. Because that's the 3-6 possibly if it's Boston-Milwaukee. I don't want to see Milwaukee. I don't want to see Orlando. Actually, the way Boston's playing, I don't want to see anybody. But they're lurking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Dallas is lurking. I'm not willing to make any sort of big judgment with Dallas. Luke has missed 19 games. Kyrie with some back stuff that's a little scary because he's been in the league for a while and he's a guard. And I always worry about aging guards hitting their early mid-30s. This is a let's see in March team for me. Also not a lot of moves, but Luca turns 26 next month.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Just pointing that out. Usually you have your apex season age 27, age 28. So we're in range and it's not this year, but it's a wait and see team for me. Then Houston, number seven. You could talk me into Houston being fifth. You could talk me into them being 12 because I don't think there's an extra gear. I think they're here. And they're here every game.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And when we get to the playoffs, they're still going to be here. They don't have the ability to do this because offensively, it's just too choppy. They're really keeping their fingers crossed with Jalen Green. I watch a lot of Houston. I really, really, really like watching Houston. We're going to talk about it with Joe Anderson in a second. But the Jalen Green piece is the piece.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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43% field goal, 35% threes, 2.6 assists. 4.2 free throw attempts. I'm just reading those stats because this is your crunch time guy. And the odds are he's not going to score or create a shot from somebody else in the biggest moments of the game. So that's one. At least not yet. He's young. Maybe it's in there. And then Van Vliet's the other one who's 15 points a game, six assists.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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His clutch numbers are probably the worst in the league. And those are kind of their two options at the end of games. So, it just turns into a rock fight. And the rock fight recipe, they're third to last in three-point shooting, 28th. They're first in rebounds. And it's just, you watch the last five minutes and it's like watching 90s basketball again. So,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Utah has a couple smaller ones, like Sexton's interesting. Clarkson, although he's not having a great year. Brooklyn at number 26 is our big entry for this. They're 14 and 27. They lost by 59 points last night, and it felt worse. Cam Johnson would be the potential move for them. Pretty decent contract. We've talked about it before on the podcast.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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You know, could they turn Van Vliet and a bunch of stuff into Fox? I don't think Sacramento, if I'm Sacramento, I'm not trading Fox, but that's the only way this changes, I think. Otherwise, I'm fine. Joel and I talk about it in the next segment. I'm fine with Houston. Just, hey, this is great. We're a top four seed. Let's see what happens in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Let's see if Jalen Green has another gear. Let's see what Shingun can do. Jabari Smith, let's just see what this looks like for a year and then we'll decide in July who we are. I think that's the move. The contenders. I have six contenders. Number one is Memphis, who's top seven offense defense. Brandon Clark's back. Angry Jaws back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Duncan on Wemby last night, even though it didn't count, still fun. Their bench is just, I've never seen anything like this bench. Brandon Clark, Huff, Aldama, Wells, Kennard, Eady, Laravia, Pippen. I mean, sometimes a couple of those guys will start, but They just can survive and injure anybody in the team for a week and you don't even notice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The LaRavia contract was weird where they did the Jalen Smith thing, didn't renew it. And now I guess he's a trade piece, but he's playing really well. I want to shout out Wells. I used to do when my fingers worked and I had a column, I used to have my Bill Simmons all-stars for random guys in the league I just love. I love Wells.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Wells watch Memphis and watch if the other team has, you know, a really good swing. And Wells is a lot of times the guy guarding the swing and really being a pain in the ass. But I, that guy, there's something there with Wells.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And that's why when you think about, like I've heard Cam Johnson mentioned with them and they could easily trade Marcus smart and LaRavia for Cam Johnson, throwing some picks and, and, and, improve that market smart start. I would want to see what I have with these guys for another couple weeks before I think about a trade.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And the team seems like they have good chemistry, they really like each other. There's a regular season versus playoffs conundrum with them, that the team in the regular season is perfect with the depth, but in the playoffs, when you have to, when the same team is seeing you six, seven times in two weeks, is there an extra gear? It's the same issue Houston has.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Morant plays three DNP, plays five, misses eight, plays one DNP, plays five DNP, plays two and a half, gets hurt DNP, plays three, misses five. This is, he's just not on the floor enough. And that's why it's the hardest to take them seriously when we have to think about, can they win four straight playoff rounds? We do not have evidence that Morant can play for two months in a row.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So until we do, I have them as a pseudo contender. I do want to mention, Jaron Jackson's been awesome this year, and I loved watching him go at Wemby last night. He really, he's one of those guys who, when he's going against Sabonis, Davis, Wemby, like you really could see him being like, I'm taking the challenge tonight. Denver, number five. Let's go. Jokic, 24 and 16, fourth in offense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Their three-point shooting is still abysmal. They're bottom three in the league, but Murray is starting to show signs. As always, online criticism works. No, TV criticism, maybe that works. But Murray does look a little bit better. Jokic has been, you know, they're 25 plus points better when he's out there versus when he's not out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The Wembley-Jokic battle two Fridays ago was the highlight of the year. He's doing stuff offensively that doesn't seem conceivable. It seems like it's out of the 1962 season. And right now, I don't think he's the MVP because of what SGA is doing and what he means to that OKC team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's basically $22 million a year for a couple years. Could he go to Memphis for Smart and LaRavia and a first baby? I couldn't find a lot of trades for him because a lot of teams don't have contracts to patch together around that mid-20s stuff, or if they do, like some of the second apron teams, what they're sending out has to be more than what Cam Johnson makes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But what's changed is now they're a top four seed and whatever happens these next two months, maybe he can play himself into that combo. They have a GM and coach that famously... Doesn't seem great. I've heard that they don't talk. I find that hard to believe, but it's the worst kept secret in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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There was a thing where they presented Malone with some sort of Wednesday and Calvin Booth is the GM and he presented in this jersey. And I was like studying the clip because I was like, I thought these guys didn't interact. I love that Russell Westbrook is relevant on this team. And they really needed him. They needed him when Murray was kind of

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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you know, flame it out a little bit there for a while. They needed him in days when Aaron Gordon, when he got hurt for, they just needed his energy, his rebounding, how weird he is, the fact that he just puts up stats. And he's been really good for them. Like, I think he's been way outkicked his coverage of what they ever could expect of Westbrook. But I was, I wrote down

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Putting him on this Jokic team, I'm not sure if it's like Daniel Day-Lewis in an Apatow comedy or Will Ferrell in a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, but it's so weird, I'm kind of into it. It's just constantly weird. There's a lot of no, no, no, Russ shots with like three minutes left where he just decides, I'm gonna take this corner three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But he plays really hard and it really seems like Jokic likes him. So I think he's been a bonus. I think he's kind of saved them in some respects because he's not afraid and he puts up stats. Number four, the Knicks. The Towns trade is just amazing. Just an incredible trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I know their defense dropped, but just when you think like the two assets they gave up versus the one they got back and how great he's been, it's an amazing trade. 25 and 14, 55%, 45% from three. Really has a chance if we were doing the old school center forward guard for all NBA. Really has a chance to be second team all NBA. Might make second team all NBA anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I think I'd rather have him than Anthony Davis at this point, as crazy as that sounds. He's younger and I just think he's more impactful day to day. The tip stuff is the thing to watch. The minutes that he's putting on these dudes. Last night, overtime. He's just hard played 49 minutes. Brunson's playing... 40 plus minutes and really hard games and also doing two thirds of the stuff offensively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And I just feel like he's going to burn these dudes out. And as a Celtics fan, this is where I take my basketball analyst part out. Just as a Celtics fan, please, Tibbs, continue to play these guys 40 plus minutes a game. Thank you. The Celtics, number three, 28 and 12. Second offense, sixth defense. Started out 16 and three. They are seven and seven in their last 14 games. So what's going on?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Well, you win the title and it could go one of two ways. Either you have a huge chip on your shoulder and it's like, we got the bullseye, come get us, and you just kick everyone's ass. That would be like the 92 Bulls. Or then the more typical way it goes is you got a little bit of an on-off switch. You feel like you can still turn it on and it's going to be there when it needs to be there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The Celtics had a road trip the other night where the first two games were Houston and Minnesota and they just played really well. And it was one of those road trips where it's like, all right, we still got it. And then they immediately fell apart after and lost some games. They're losing games at home. They're not shooting nearly as well. Like last year, there were...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's a little complicated, but Memphis was the one team I was kind of looking at. A fun topic with the Nets is what's Ben Simmons' next contract? Probably minimum. Would somebody get frisky around like July 6th and be like, ah, Ben Simmons, all NBA a couple years ago. And all of a sudden he's making two years for 20. Who knows? I really like this draft though. And I'm just starting to get into it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They were 39% on threes and 49% just field goal in general. So very close to where Cleveland is this year. This year, they're 46 and 36. So it's not dramatic, but it's a little dramatic. It's three points a game. They don't rebound as well as they did last year. They were second in rebounding last year. They're ninth this year. Tatum has a way bigger rebounding burden than he used to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And White has just really fallen off the last 20 games, and I think he's hurt. And I think he's been hurt for a month plus, and I just think he's playing hurt because he was incredible the first five weeks, and he hasn't been. Drew's older. Drew is a little more hit or miss than maybe he was last year. I'm still not worried. But what worries me is this. Last year was a cakewalk to the finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It wasn't their fault. It was just the way it played out. If they fall to a three seed, potentially that's Milwaukee or Orlando in round one. Milwaukee is Giannis. Orlando potentially defensively could be a real issue for them, especially if you watch the stagnant Celtics offense lately. Knicks round two, not having home court. Cleveland round three, no home court.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's like night and day compared to last year. So there's stuff, you know, KP's just coming back in a real way. Tatum's been stupendous. Fifth in scoring, 18th in rebounding. Plays his ass off every night. Plays defense. He's just a top five guy in the league by any calculation. Jalen's shooting numbers are down. So it's all little stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And I'm willing to say it's more in the camp of we won last year. We're kind of hibernating until the playoffs. I don't love it though with the younger team. And I don't love the white stuff at all. I want to really know what's going on with them. The schedule is rough. They really need that two seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And if I'm the Knicks, if I'm the Knicks, I'm playing Jalen Brunson in heart 48 minutes a game trying to get that two seed. I think that's what they should do. Wink, wink. Cleveland, number two, 34 and five. First offense, they're basically the 2021 Celtics. They've basically recreated what that Celtics team was. They're 50% on field goals, 40% from threes. They can play defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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The Celtics had those two forwards that were a huge mismatch for everyone, Brown and Jalen. The Cavs more have that same thing with the guards, with Mitchell and Garland. What's crazy is they really, really, really played the minute stuff well. Mitchell's 31 a game. Mobley's 30 and a half. Garland's 30.3 and Allen's 29. And what's their record? 34 and five.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Those guys are sitting for one third of every game. They're killing teams. And it's very similar to Boston last year. And I said this a couple weeks ago, I'll say it again. I take them really seriously. I do not think this is a regular season team. I think they're really good. And I think Mitchell is ready for a bigger moment.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And Mitchell might, if you're doing a draft of all the guys this year, when we get to the playoffs, who might have started here and went up to here, like Jalen Brown last year, Mitchell's the number one candidate. And I would have Wemby number two. Just while we're here, things you're not allowed to say on pregame shows about Cleveland or OKC anymore. People got to start talking about SGA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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We're talking. People got to start realizing how good Donovan Mitchell is. We know. People got to start talking about Jalen Williams. We are. People got to start talking about Evan Mobley. We are. People got to give more props to the job Sam Presti has done. We have. People gotta take OKC more seriously. We are. They're the favorites on FanDuel. Which takes me to OKC, the favorite. 33-6.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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First in defense by a lot. This is one of the great defenses. Regular season-wise, anyone is put together. They force turnovers at an absurd rate. Everybody seems to, the only real weakness they have is opponents can rebound on them a little bit. They've shown the ability to come back in games from double digits.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They did against Minnesota and the Clippers and the Knicks and the Celtics, which I think is significant. Chet, I don't know when he comes back, but they're doing all this without Chet. When Chet comes back, this becomes a nightmare team. I don't think they make a trade. My guess is they don't. If they made a trade, they'd probably try to improve the Wiggins spot or the Isaiah Joe spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Once football ends, I'm going to throw myself into it a little bit more because it's fun. But flag, love, two record kids, the Lithuanian kid at Illinois. I think there's real stakes. And I think we're going to see some pretty incredible tanking as we get on the stretch. The next category is the pre-tankers. which includes Portland at 25. They're 13 and 26.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And I just don't think Presti rolls that way. If you go back and you look at the KD Russ Harden era, Harden was really the only trade he made during a five, six year stray. He did the Jeff Green Perkins. That was pretty early before they made the finals. And then he did the Harden trade, which was a financial trade. But for the most part, he's a continuity guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And I think they roll with what they have. Their playoffs could look like round one, maybe it's San Antonio, maybe it's the Lakers, maybe it's the Kings or the Warriors. Round two, Denver or Dallas. Round three, Memphis or Houston. And I don't see anybody beating these dudes. And the biggest reason is SGA, who is out off of the following guys head-to-head just this season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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45 against Harden, 45 against Hal Burton, 40 against Ant, 39 against Luka, 36 against LeBron, 35 against Curry, against Boston and Tatum. He did 33-11-6. Played the Knicks twice, 39 and 33. Best player in the league this season. He's got to be the MVP because he's meant the most to the best team in the league. Now, you could say, well, why didn't we do this with Tatum last year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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He's just been more impactful day to day than Tatum is. And I can't believe this is the guy I watched as a kid on the Clippers as a rookie. I never in a million years would have thought that this would become one of the best, most creative scoring guards I've ever seen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Him and Brunson, watching those guys just over and over again get the shots they want and create the shots they want against these defenses that are designed to stop them, is pretty nuts. Is it going to work in a series? It really depends on Jalen Williams. That's going to be it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's because at some point during a seven-game series, you're going to try to take out SGA and you're going to send second guys in them and you're going to make other team and you're going to make the three-point shooting beat you and you're going to put the ball in the hands of Jalen Williams and you're going to say, you know what, dude? Go for it. If you beat us, so be it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And from what we've seen him in the playoffs last year and even in the NBA Cup this year, I'm not positive he can do it, but that's the play against them once we get to the playoffs. They're the best team in the league. I think they have a legitimate chance had 70 games because of their depth, 70 wins because of their depth. So could they get to 70-12, 71-11?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's possible because night to night, game to game with how good their defense is and their scoring and their three-point shooting, I think they can get there. Anyway, that is our half-season power poll. Coming back, we're going to talk to Joel Anderson from The Ringer and then eventually Joel Anderson and Van Lathan about college football. See you in a second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends.

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They'll be family. Ideally. They'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven-layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat.

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If you catch them on the right night, they look pretty good. It's a weird team. They remind me of when you go through one of those old basketball handbooks or basketball reference and you go to the 1979 season and you just look at the players on teams. You're like, hmm. That's an interesting team. What were they thinking there? They have three centers and no point guards and eight wings.

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In this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food, no matter what you're craving. From two-for-one pizza to buy one, get one wings, Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week. All season long. Uber Eats, the official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. All right, Joel Anderson is here.

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We have a whole long history. How many times did we almost work together before we actually decided to work together?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I thought there was a 2014 too. Wasn't there a Grantland era? We definitely talked then. We talked in 16. We talked in 20. And it just, for whatever reason, never worked out. Now all of a sudden you're with The Ringer and we couldn't be happier.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's so funny. Yeah, because we had talked as usual. I probably forgot to follow up two weeks later. And then So anyway, it finally worked out. But we always felt like, back to the Grantland days, you know, sports culture, real life stuff. Like, we always liked the people who dabbled into all these different circles. You're like the epitome of that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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You care about all these different crazy, all the stuff you've done in the past. What was the... The best narrative podcast, what was the one you were proudest of, of all the stuff you did?

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When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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What was the most surprising thing you learned about Tupac and Biggie when you worked on that one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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What the hell is this team? That's kind of Portland right now. I also think DeAndre Ayton probably should have played in 1979. Might have been a better year for him. I don't know what this team is. I don't know what the point of it is. And I'm not sure they know either. I don't know what the trades are. Ayton is now untradeable, I think. He's been pretty bad. Scoot?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4216.901

How many years before somebody does the Drake Kendrick version of that podcast thing? Do we need time to pass? What's the right amount of time to actually let everything settle and then dive into it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4265.578

Yeah. I don't know what the right level of distance is. And especially in the documentary era. It really feels like that shortened. You know, like the last dance to me, what was that, 22 years?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4277.69

From the last season. That was kind of the perfect amount of nostalgia time. It really was. It really was. Because you want people... You want them to have enough distance that they can really say shit after the fact, right, in the interviews. And The Last Dance is a good example. I've certainly had all that. But also, there's a whole new generation moving up that wants to learn more about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So, yeah, I just feel like that window is shortened now. Now it's like 10, 12 years and not 20.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4355.868

Yeah, I think Isaiah probably has more of a case for feeling like he was completely betrayed by it. Yeah, he just comes off like the villain. Pippen's more complicated because they tell the whole story about, you know, in 94 when MJ's gone and he doesn't want to come back in the game. That was a big part of his legacy. Like when I wrote about him in my book a million years ago,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4378.476

A lot of what I wrote in the Pippen part was about it's unfair that that moment framed his career when he was like the most selfless teammate, awesome guy to play with, one of the best 30 players ever. But I think if you really watch The Last Dance again, the last episode, it circles back and talks about how much pain he was in in the 98 finals. But part of me wonders, did Pippen even finish it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4403.49

Because by the end of it, it's like heroic watching him go through this stuff. But I mean, big picture, what changed is I think sports people are so much more hesitant now to be in docs unless it's about them, unless they're the stars. You don't want to be the bad guy in a sports doc.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4420.055

I think the Isaiah thing, we dealt with it with the Celtics when we did this nine-part Celtics doc that's coming out in 2025. Yeah. 15 years ago, we would have gotten everybody. This time around, it's so much harder to get people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

443.163

is the one they have to figure out if they can unlock as an asset. He had 39 points two nights ago. My stockbroker called me immediately. But before that 39 point game was trending toward the most wrong I've ever been about a lottery pick in the last 35 years. And I actually made a list. I went through and I tried to remember guys that I was super high on and why didn't it work out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4441.072

Sadly, no. But it's just, I think, the way it is going forward because... in the late 2000s especially, nobody really knew what documentaries were. They weren't like, they weren't made like they are now where it's like they're leading Netflix and they're leading HBO and whoever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So I think the stakes feel higher and people either feel like if it's not about them or if they're not getting paid, they're, They just don't want to be in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4496.102

i need something out of this for myself right um and actually though now that you mentioned it i would watch the scotty pippen documentary you know well he so his whole background which they went into a little in the last dance but you know it's he was about as broke as it gets growing up as a kid like his i think his dad was uh basically couldn't work was handicapped and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4519.188

So that kind of led to all the financial decisions he made were just trying to grab money, grab these extra long contracts where you're not getting paid. Never being able to bet on yourself because you needed money so bad. And it was like this eight-year spin cycle for him. Just bad contract after bad contract. And unfortunately with sports, like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4537.606

You make a couple bad decisions, you can't get out of it. Now we have the NBA where you have, like, Jimmy Butler or Bradley Beal stuck in situations they don't like, but they're making $50 million a year. So it's like, I don't really feel that bad for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It's such a mid-2020s... thing where it's like here on the one hand, I see the case for Jimmy, like brought the team to the finals in 20 and 23 was expecting them to make some sort of upgrade. It's not Miami's fault. I don't think necessarily that Portland didn't want what they were offering for Dame lowered, but they didn't get anybody else. So he's doing the, I'm not getting enough help thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4605.356

I kind of see it. I also see the Miami side of like, we're paying you 50 million a year. You're the best guy in the team. We're paying you to be there, you know, for nine months a year. We don't want to have to wonder when you're playing or not. And why are you unhappy? So it's, it just feels like a bad marriage. Like it's the classic bad sports marriage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Going backwards, I think these were the biggest misses for me. Wiseman, 2020. Not 100% my fault. Mostly my fault. Not 100% my fault. It was the COVID year. He had barely played at Memphis. Theoretically, he made sense as this big guy who could pass. It just didn't work out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I remember making those points when he was being, when he was being shopped to the different teams. And then everybody was like, you're just Celtics fan. You don't want Miami to get Dame. It's like, look, there's some evidence that he's an awful defensive player. He's also a little guy hitting his early mid-30s, which we have a lot of evidence with that, that that gets a little dangerous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I actually think he's been a little better in Milwaukee this year than I was expecting. But the Jimmy thing is in such a strange spot now because he also has this player option next year. So if you trade for him, you're also paying him next year. So it's a two-year commitment. It's his only leverage over Miami because if they don't trade him, then he could just opt in and now they're paying him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So now he's screwed up one year instead of two for them. But if you're Miami, you don't want to take a bad contract back. So if Philly's like, all right, fine, take Paul George. You can have him this year and the next three. Miami's going to be like, no way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4734.332

thing like he's not going to allow them to be bad yeah because they have some good assets and right they're a little bit better than being in the middle but they're not they're not a top six playoff team Right. Heroes playing the best he's ever played. And if Jimmy comes back the way that he could actually play, they're pretty interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4752.959

They're not going to make the finals again, but I don't, I don't, it's an unsolvable one because what you don't want to do is compound a mistake by taking somebody else's mistake. That's why Bradley Beal's never happened in a million years. But if Phoenix plays worse and worse, eh, maybe now Durant becomes a possibility, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And at least you're taking advantage of somebody else's misfortune to get out of yours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4839.237

So to recap, you're not totally fired up you didn't get a generational super duper star.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4882.218

I forgot about your Rockets connection. I think they're the most fascinating team to be a fake GM for when you just look at their assets? Cause they're, they're 26 and 12, you know, or at least when we're taping this on a Wednesday, every time I feel like they're going to maybe tail off a little bit like Jabari Smith got hurt and you think, all right, here we go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

489.51

I don't have a ton of regrets about it like I do with Scoot, where I just thought Scoot was going to be this downhill Russell Westbrook, unbelievable athlete guy, and we just haven't seen it. I have no excuses with Scoot. Wiseman, there's some excuses. Lonzo in 2017, I was super high on. And he just got hurt. So I don't feel bad about that. Jabari Parker, 2014, I really liked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4901.648

Cause this team is not a 26 and 12 team. They last five minutes of a game. They can barely get a decent shot off. And it's going to dip. And then they just keep winning and winning. And they're really mentally tough. They play good D. They have good coach. And I don't know what I would do. I don't know what the tweak is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4935.704

There's not. At least right now. No, there's not. So the question you have to ask when you're in a situation like them is... Like OKC two years ago. They were like basically a 500 team. They played really well together. They had a certain ceiling to what they were doing. And he was very hesitant of trading anything for it. Then last year... Same thing, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4956.599

They ended up, they really could have beaten Dallas. They could have made the finals, but they were still really hesitant about making a move. And then this year was when they made the move. And I think if I was Houston's conciliary, unless I could get Darren Fox for Van Vliet and some picks, like if that was really sitting there, you have to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

4976.431

Like if you can, if you can basically just change your point guard position, cause Van Vliet, I, I admire the guy plays hard. He's an overachiever, but he's just, when he has the ball with three minutes left in a tie game, you, I don't have any confidence in scoring. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So they could get like a, like a Fox type level guy, like a Booker somehow became available. Um, Um, that's the only thing I would think about. I w I want another year with Jalen green. Cause I still don't know what he is. Yep. Um, yeah. Same thing with Jabari who I, I think I like a little more than most. And then I think their number one asset is Thompson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5015.097

Like if I'm just like, if I'm ranking their trade assets, I think he might be number one for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5041.93

Yeah. At least I think, yeah. I know a couple people that have seen it, seen the Rockets in person this year separately in different cities and all of them texted me after and were like, oh my God, like this guy athletically. And it was same, same feeling I got too, where it's like, Just certain guys move differently. You know, and this is a league of these awesome athletes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5064.816

These are some of the best athletes we've produced as a country. And yet some guys still stand out. And he was one of the guys that you're watching going, man, it just feels like he's a split second faster, more athletic. He can bend in any way, more explosive. Like he's just, I don't know what his ceiling is, but from what I've seen so far, there's no reason to me that

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5088.585

Like a Pippen would be the ceiling for me. And I don't think that's a crazy thing to say. No, not at all. I mean, how old is he again? He's like 20? Yeah, he's like 21. 20 or 21, something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Now, his knees were made of Fusilli, so I don't know how much blame I can get for that one, but he also belonged to this different era. He made way more sense in the 1990s and 2000s, what his game was, the scoring small forward who couldn't guard anybody. And then as the league shifted, it's like, is he a four, is he a three? So I feel a little bad about that one, but not scoot level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5110.473

Well, we don't know offensively. We don't know is the shot ever going to be there. Scottie always... You know, he was basically going to Michael Jordan basketball camp every day. So the IQ stuff from MJ kind of eventually morphed. But he was always such a good playmaker and, like, passer. And, you know, he had a little weird post-up game. And I don't know if that stuff's in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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But the defensive athleticism stuff... Like if you're doing grades, he's A plus. A plus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5156.199

Well, one fun thing that, one fun thing that's happening with Houston, Memphis, Oklahoma City. And then I'm going to say half of Minnesota. But you have some real alpha-y defensive teams, athletes. They're all kind of around the same age range for the most part. And when you watch the league pass, you'll be like, oh, Houston's playing Memphis. This game's going to be fucking awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5179.429

You know, oh my God, Houston's OKC tonight. Oh my God, I can't wait. So there's this little subset now of the league that's like basically the sons of LeBron. All of them were probably... They don't even remember the NBA when LeBron wasn't in it. And they're... It's something, you know what I mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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They beat somebody and Zion was, I don't know if they're auditioning him. I'm on the record. It's the most fun trade that we can come up with in basketball right now is Zion to the Spurs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5232.151

No, I'm telling you. No. What? Put Zion with Wemby. Zion, trade their stuff a couple picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5243.355

Get him the ball. You're out. Why don't you like that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5273.468

Yeah. He's, he's playing it all out. I, I, I wouldn't compare, this isn't an exact comparison because Randy Moss was better than Zion and Randy Moss did more stuff than Zion and he was healthier than Zion. But there was a moment when, when Randy Moss was on the Raiders that year and they were a dumpster fire and you know, everything was wrong. He wasn't playing that hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5295.689

And his asset as a trade asset slipped to the point the Patriots stole him for like a fourth rounder. It was a fourth round pick. It was crazy. All right, right. But they got him and then he was immediately rejuvenated. I do wonder like if that happens, whoever gets Zion, if they could just get him in the right thing, would that be like the best trade you could make?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

532.868

Michael Kidd Gilchrist in 2012, I loved. I liked him at Kentucky. I just thought he was going to be an incredible... Three and D guy. Once he learned how to shoot threes, guess what? Never learned how to shoot threes. He had some weird elbow thing. His elbow was always like, uh, I forget what it was like a childhood injury or something. He just could never shoot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5350.388

It's the worst organization in the league. That's a huge part of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5364.855

And he's at least showing flashes too. Even in the playing game before he got hurt. He was taking it to LeBron in a way that was unusual.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5389.409

Yeah. Well, I know new Orleans is bad for me when I'm there for four days. So I can't imagine when you're here with some of the vices that he has. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5405.72

It's like Vegas. Yeah. Vegas is fun for three days. This is too much. The thing with him, these are the NBA players I grew up with where these guys, they have so much talent. They're so awesome. but they never find the right spot, right situation, whatever. And then it just never happens. Oh, Van Latham's here. He's going to join us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5426.732

We'll take a, we'll take a quick break, come back and talk some college football with Van. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5444.148

Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5471.027

Whatever you're into, it makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of Prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them, if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5492.616

Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. All right, Van Lathan is here. He's joining us. We're going to talk college football. Yes. It's the first time you guys have been on a podcast together? Yeah, ever. A lot of respect for this guy, yeah. Likewise, man, likewise. College football. I'm going to let you guys carry this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

551.859

This one is probably my worst one since scoot. Um, Derek Williams in 2011, uh, I still don't know what happened here. When you think like where the league was going, 2011, that's right when Curry was starting to blow up a little bit of Golden State. Maybe a year later was when the Curry and the threes started. But Derek Williams on paper, like the perfect stretch for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5511.441

I'm just going to be the point guard to set you up. I'm going to be like Reed Shepard in the G League, just running fast breaks and raining threes. We have Joel's five favorite things for college football. Before we do that, Notre Dame, Ohio State. Every person I know who gambles on college football is like, just throw Ohio State in a parlay. It's a wrap. They're too big. They're bigger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5532.551

They're better. Like this is, this is done. They were the eighth seed this year. Yeah. Is this done? Does Notre Dame, is there nobody believes in this case?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5654.004

Like a Pittsburgh Steelers situation? Exactly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5729.486

Two follow-up questions off this one. Ohio state was the eight that ranked eighth heading into the playoffs. So a year ago, they're not in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5739.534

So now they're going to, they're heavily favored to win the title. So what does that mean? Big picture? Were we just doing this wrong the last 20 years? Do we have to go back and go through all the times when maybe the wrong team won? No, no, no. What does it mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

574.721

Like just exactly what you'd want. Somebody, good athlete who could rebound and shoot threes. And I don't really know what happened. He went to Minnesota. It just, it just, I'd love to do his career again. I'm not going to admit 100% defeat on it, but I'll admit 90% defeat. Ricky Rubio, 2009. My two favorite guys in that draft were Curry and Rubio.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5795.469

Yeah. I watched that game and it was, the announcers were shocked as it was happening. I mean, yeah. What's your take?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5848.775

Right, so like that Michigan loss in the old system is catastrophic for them. It's like one of the worst losses in the history of Ohio State.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5905.786

It's going to be like Washington with Jaden Daniels when he wins the Super Bowl in three weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

5919.255

I don't even remember that happening. Is that the Patriots?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

596.651

And not in that order, because I liked Rubio more. I thought Rubio was going to be a generational point guard. I was all in. I'm not positive I was wrong. Because, first of all, he goes to that weird Minnesota team, they have 100 point guards. He doesn't come over right away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

60.304

Get in problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Viore. I love sports. I know you do too. I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear. Especially, you know, I do a lot of walking. I walk around LA. I make calls. I listen to podcasts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

6065.209

Notre Dame. Can you walk me through the relationship Notre Dame has now in 2025 with America? Because I know what it meant in the 70s and 80s. To me, it felt like the biggest school on the planet forever. And then all of a sudden it wasn't. And then it came back. And now where are we in 2025? I mean, I think it's still probably personal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

612.624

Right as it's starting to really happen for him on the T-Wolves, Kobe crashed into his knee and he blew out his ACL and he just, he was never the same. I would love to do his career over again. I still feel like I was right on him and it just didn't happen. So, still not as bad as Scoot. And then the last one, Jay Williams in 2002.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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You know what really happened? Shaq went to LSU. Shaq went to LSU and it bankrupted the whole school for like 10 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

631.075

I think I have a column in the archive somewhere where I thought he was a better pick than Yao Ming. I'm not positive I was wrong. Jay Williams was a really exciting guard. I remember we talked about this on, he came on my podcast like seven, eight years ago. He was an electric Westbrook Rose kind of athletic point guard that he was definitely something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Can I throw our hottest take at you guys? Most important guy this century for the SEC, Dante Culpepper. Why? Because if Saban picks Drew Brees over Dante Culpepper, he never goes to Alabama.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

6501.779

With Les Miles? With Les Miles? For real? I don't know if that hottest take worked, but I wanted to fire it up anyway. I still think Saban's in the NFL now if he has Drew Brees. He would have had Drew Brees for 15 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

652.459

Then he had the motorcycle accident, we'll never know. So out of all of these, I think Scoot was just the biggest miss for me because I thought athletically what he was as a downhill guy and as a competitor, I just thought he was going to be awesome. And I missed it. And I'm still holding on to stock. Maybe it'll turn around. 39 points the other night. Not giving up yet. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Can we switch gears? Cause we're running out of time. All right, Joel, rip it off. Your five favorite things about college football this season. Van and I are the audience. I made you have a list. You can go five to one or one to five. Your choice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Well, he went to UNLV and then left after three games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And I thought... Well, the follow through is they didn't fucking pay him. Whatever the money was, I just don't think he got it.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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There was a third piece to it, though, which is you have, like, thousands of these business deals being cut left and right, right? With teenage kids or kids who are 20, 21 with these different colleges. They're probably not. They're just like, yeah, yeah, we'll get you $25,000 by... So there's so much room for sleaziness that I don't think we've ever seen before.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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or protect the schools either you're just seeing a lot of promises not being met we'll see how who has the power at the end of the day it's either the wild wild west or it's like that new netflix show where just everybody gets brutally murdered what's that show american something the western about tim riggins is on it it was on netflix it's like set in the 1800s everybody just kills everybody oh is that roots

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Number 24, Chicago. They're 18-23. Super fun team. Great league pass team. Levine has been awesome. Levine has rejuvenated himself as a trade value asset to the point that if you're ranking him against all the other guys who are definitely available, you'd probably want him the most. You definitely want him more than Beal. So he's 23, five and five. He's like a 50, 40, 80 guy this year.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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No. No, it's Peter Berg's new show. It's called American something. It's about Wyoming and just, it's like 1883 more bound. Anyway. All right. Wow.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I would also add for Saban, I loved when Shane Gillis made fun of him and Saban didn't know how to handle it.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Saban had no sense of humor about it. He was like, who the fuck is this guy? He's saying we cheated? By the way, how does he know?

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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No, he was just talking. He made a paying the players joke.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I think as a fourth-rounder, he's a must. Once you get past the second round, you're just throwing darts against the dartboard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It feels like he's going to have some moment where somebody starting running back will get hurt next year or a year from now. And that guy's going to go in and have like 110 yards and be the big fantasy pickup. Yeah. God only knows. I mean, that dude beasted against Texas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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He's had good games against really good teams. Like he had two really good games against Knicks. Really good game against Boston. Two really good games against Memphis. A really good game against San Antonio. He's putting up big stats against excellent defensive teams.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It felt like they were almost running like a goal line defense on him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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So anyway. So Hunter's your favorite because obviously I'm moving into, I have the fourth pick in the draft with my beloved Patriots because we fucked up the last game of the season. But Carter is one of the guys, the fan base is kind of, we have a new coach. He wants to build around the lines. We're like, look at this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I mean, you should be amazing pass rusher, but he's probably not going to be there for, I feel like he's going to go before that, man. Yeah. I mean, it feels like a Willie Anderson situation, right? He'll just go second.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Or we, I think that's where we probably end up. So you would play Hunter D back or receiver?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Because it seems like the move with him, and maybe he ends up on the pats, I don't know, but cornerback... and then special packages, and maybe third and eight and up he comes in, and he's like your third receiver. And so maybe he's like 10 offensive plays a game and then cornerback, which even that would be like nobody's doing that now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I remember as a kid, or I wasn't a kid, I guess I was in college, when Deion... He was the D-back, but then every once in a while they would play him at receiver. Every time he came in, it was so fucking exciting. I was like, are they going to throw a bubble screen? Are they just going to throw a deep for him? It was like, you couldn't take your eyes off it. All right, number one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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and I think he's a really interesting trade piece as we head toward the deadline, because I don't know why Chicago wouldn't, wouldn't want to explore trading him. Um, but compared to bail and some of the other ones, even Jimmy Butler, who you just have no idea where his head's at. I think he's a legit trade asset. I think Vucevic is a legit trade asset.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I could not believe it. I love this theory that that loss was worse than the high of winning a title. But let me tell you something. That's a really interesting seesaw. And it diluted home, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I will always, for the rest of my life, think Mahomes got a concussion in that Bengals game at the end of the first half. Right. And he was never the same after that moment. And that was when they lost. And I still can't believe they didn't make the Super Bowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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We have to run. Van, a pleasure. Joel? Awesome to finally have you on. Yeah, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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On the other hand, why, why give those guys away? Like you're, you're, you're going to be a top 10 draft pick anyway, probably. Um, I don't know why I would just be like, yeah, sure, take Vooch for a protected first. I'd rather just keep him and hope his value goes up. Regardless, this is the perfect Jerry Reinsdorf team.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Joel and to Van. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti for producing. As always, don't forget, you can watch clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And don't forget, part two of the Thursday extravaganza is coming later tonight. NFL, lots of it. See you in a couple hours.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off.

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February 6th trade deadline this year, by the way. Just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn.

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With unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common, LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions. LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying.

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In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons.

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Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

761.455

They're mediocre, they're fun to watch, they're not in the luxury tax, and keep cashing those checks, Jerry. Next category, we just did the pre-tankers. I'm calling this category the rock and the hard place.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Four and 19 against above 500 teams. Yikes. Paul George, he's played 26 games. He's shooting 42%. 2.7 free throw attempts a game. As you know, I love free throw attempts because it tells you, does somebody go to the basket or not? He doesn't go to the basket anymore. Not sure what he's doing. He was 5.3 free throw attempts two years ago. Just in general, looks old.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I don't know if this is a phase because he was hurt before the year. Maybe his conditioning wasn't there. Maybe podcasting. Maybe he's proving that podcasting is more grueling than you guys give it credit for. He doesn't look the same. And he doesn't look the same to the point that I think if Philly called Miami and said, we'll give you Paul George for Jimmy Butler, I don't think Miami does it.

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Here are two words that will change everything. Viore clothing. a line of active wear that is unbelievable. The best thing about Viore is you can lounge around in it, you can work out in it, you can go outside, you can go shopping down in your local wherever, and you never feel like you're either underdressed or overdressed. You're just comfortable.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I don't think they want any part of three more years after this year of Paul George. So he's hit that point already, unless he can show on a basketball court that he's better than that. Because right now we're not seeing it. I didn't like when he complained about playing the five when it beats out. And he said it was, this is just not that fun for me. You're trying to win games. You're 15 and 24.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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Maybe do whatever it could take to make the team better. Rough signing. So you have that. The Nick Nurse thing has gone terribly and I am not ruling him out for the Amazon NBA studio show next season. I think he's got to be in there.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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For his career, he's missed 404 games now. And he's played 446. So he's edging toward 50-50, I played or I didn't play, for my entire career. They had a 4-5 this week. That was the biggest stretch of their season. Playing all playoff teams, all really good teams. He missed the first two. We'll see what happens with the others. He's got knee stuff plus a foot thing and...

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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It just doesn't seem like it's going to happen again in the same way. I remember Goldsberry asked me earlier in the year, is he in like a 2008 Shaq stage, Embiid? 2008 Shaq played. He was, I think, third team on NBA. Embiid doesn't play. And when you miss 404 games, over the course of 11 years, yikes.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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When he did play, offensively looks great, can still get to the free throw line, can still make that little 20-footer at the top of the key, is still big and huge. He falls down all the time, falls down more than ever. I think his fall down per 48 minutes is the highest it's ever been. The thing that was really alarming with him was the Golden State game a couple weeks ago.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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I'm not sure if you guys saw it, but Golden State was just doing the thing where they just, everybody's cutting and moving and passing and the ball's flying around. They're doing the 2014 Spurs thing. And Embiid was wandering around like a drunk guy outside of the bar at 2.15 in the morning trying to keep up with it. And if you watch that one game,

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you would say to yourself, it is impossible to think that this team could win four straight playoff rounds, which if they make the playoffs now, they'd have to win at least one playing game, maybe two. They'd have to play Cleveland in round one, right? Then you'd have to play the winner of whoever the four or five is.

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Part 1: An NBA Midseason Power Poll, Plus OSU vs. Notre Dame with Joel Anderson and Van Lathan

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And then the Knicks Celtics would be waiting in the last, I mean, there's no way. So I was thinking like, The Knicks, who they always had this relationship with Embiid, with Leon Rose and Wes, and those were his guys. And it was always like, well, if he ever gets unhappy in Philly, the Knicks will trade for him. Can you imagine if the Knicks went all in for Embiid last summer?

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You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

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Well, plus he was awesome in game one. I thought he was the best player on the court.

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And then we haven't seen it the same way. There was a couple of things. I thought the Celtics were doing a couple of things a little bit differently defensively. One is they were fine with Josh Hart taking threes until he made about five. He made them. Then they shifted their defense. But initially, it was like, we're good with that. We're good with that.

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It really seems like they studied the tape of Bridges. What did Bridges end up with today? He was nine points today. He's four for 14. He's got that weird... It's like the guy you play pickup with all the time where they have this one shot. Yeah. And then eventually you figure it out and you're like, fuck, why didn't I figure that out six months ago? He does this jump shot.

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It's like a hop step, 45 degree angle delivery shot. And, and white couldn't time it. And then finally this game, they started like timing the jumper a little bit better.

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But he always bends back. He would he would rather take a 10 foot shot than an eight foot shot from the same place where his feet are at. He's always going backwards. I think it was screwing up white. He couldn't gauge it.

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I just think he's at a slightly different stage of his career and Minnesota is really, really good. So we'll talk about that. We'll talk about Minnesota versus whoever wins tomorrow night, um, with Rob Mahoney tomorrow night. We'll see if the Joker has one more great performance in him. Um, Stay tuned. So that's tomorrow night.

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They were more aware of it. It didn't seem like they were surprised by his offense in this game. And then, you know, the other one was they were just really aggressive with Brunson. And, you know, they just fell asleep in game four. Like, the reason he got going in the third quarter of game four is because their defense sucked. They fell asleep. They lost him a couple times.

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They just didn't do a good job. They did a good job today. And it helped that he got 6,000, 10 minutes.

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I don't know why. Isn't that the story of Towns' career, though? It always seems like the Celtics guarded him with Drew Holiday a bunch of times today. And teams just feel like they can get away with it because Towns is more comfortable 25 feet from the basket. But yeah, you're right. He torched Horford a couple times in game two.

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Right. Well, you know what's interesting about him? He's a streaky low post score. Usually people are streaky three point, but he gets in like these grooves on the low post when you watch it. You're like, how does he not average 40 a game? And then he just won't shoot another eight footer for a month.

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I mean, he didn't take that many shots. But yeah, he only took two threes. He took a shot at the key.

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Nothing to do with it. Mizzou did two things tonight that the Celtic fans have been calling for for a while. One is he finally punted on Porzingis. Listen, Porzingis, huge part of last year's team. When he's healthy, he's a 20-point scorer. He's unicorny. We concede all that.

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Well, he's unicorny too. And in this series and in this whole playoffs and really since March, he's been zombie Porzingis. He's been poor zombie. There's no other way to put it. And he's such a liability. They're playing these two big lineups that they're just getting annihilated on in the previous games. And then finally today, they punted on it.

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Today's podcast, talking to Dave Jacoby about Celtics-Knicks game five, the Tatum injury, the fallout, some thoughts after having a day to sit with it and the Knicks, the spot they're in, and a whole bunch of topics that came out of tonight, the Luke Cornett game. And then WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert came on to talk about the upcoming season, where the league is at big picture.

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They started the second half with Cornette, which is what they should have done. And the irony of the Cornette piece, he's been a really good bench guy all year. He's been good in the home games. The crowd really likes him. I'm just telling you. I love Cornette. And they've played games. They've been really careful because they kind of knew they were going to be the two seed for four months.

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And they would have games where they didn't play Tatum. They would have games where they didn't play Brown. And they had all these guys. These guys are all used to playing without one of the two stars. And Cornette was always a big part of some of those games. I can't say I was shocked that he played that way. Seven blocks is shocking, but...

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I was waiting for him to play more for a couple games now.

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Well, in this game, he helped with the rebounding, which was the other big thing that changed. They just took the rebounding more seriously. Robinson was really good again. I have a theory. Robinson, he's had stretches during his career. where you're like, why isn't this guy the next Bill Russell? Why aren't we talking about him like we talk about Russell, Chamberlain, and Kareem?

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You'll catch him for four minutes and like, is this the best player in the NBA?

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He couldn't even hit the net. And they were all free throws that he was making the same way where they would hit the front of the rim, bounce over and go in like it was at a carnival. He prestiged, they prestiged Mitch Robinson tonight.

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I'm still trying to figure out how Chalamet got courtside. Chalamet. I have more stuff to talk about with this game, but we got to take a quick break. Hey, as you know, I like to create things. We worked with Fando on a new betting concept. We call it tail or fade. We've done it for a couple of weeks in a row. We hit last week. I make a player prop pick.

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You either get to decide to back it, which is a tail, or go against it, which is a fade. But either way, you get a 50% boost either on the over or the under. So if you check out FanDuel Sportsbook on Thursday for the OKC Denver game, what we did was we did yokeage, points, rebounds, I think over 40 and a half. So if it's a combined thing, it gets to 41 rebounds.

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You win the bet and you win your little 50% profit boost on that bet. I'm going over. I'm my guy, Jokic. If you want to tail me, join me. If you want to go against me, fade me, whatever you want to do. I love when the customers ride with me. They won last week, by the way. Can't wait to make fun of those who fade me and lose. So for Thursday, Jokic, 40 and a half over. Go check it out.

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And by the way, go to fanduel.com slash BS and you can download America's number one sports book and you can bet on lots of stuff, not just Taylor fading me, but you must be 21 plus in present select states or 18 plus in present in DC. Opt-in required bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount.

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See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gamble problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Loom, by Atlassian. Some things are just unnecessary.

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And I just wanted to pick her brain because the league is at a fascinating moment right now as it heads into almost its third decade. So that was a really fun conversation. We taped that on Monday. And before we get to the podcast, just wanted to remind everybody on FanDuel, I'm doing Taylor Fade every week, and we're going to be doing it for Thursday night's OKC Denver game.

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We see players, I don't want to name them, but players who can't help getting a dumb flagrant, dumb foul, dumb technical at the worst possible times, and you bang your hand against your head and you go, why do they do that? Why is that so unnecessary? Why don't they get it at this point? Well, it's just as unnecessary as tedious business meetings. Good thing you can use Loom.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Instead, use Loom to simultaneously record both your screen and yourself to share a quick update, to provide feedback, to train a colleague, everything in between. Plus, add Loom AI to your meetings for instant written notes and recordings. Try Loom right now. at loom.com. That is L-O-O-M.com. So obviously a pretty traumatic 48 hours for Celtic fans.

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Yesterday was just awful because there was no news at all. And even me, I couldn't, you know, I knew it wasn't great, but nobody, I mean, they just shut down. They didn't say anything. And the reason they did it was because they went and they immediately put them into surgery. They just didn't want to say anything until they found out it was successful surgery. But the longer it went on,

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you know, by one o'clock in the afternoon, my time, I'm on threads. Like maybe it's not an Achilles. Maybe, maybe it's like he tore his plant, his plantar fasciitis muscle, whatever the fuck that thing is. Like, who knows? Maybe it wasn't, or maybe it's worse. Maybe he tore his Achilles and like ankle ligaments. And it was like this catastrophic, and your mind just starts racing.

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Then all of a sudden you find out what it is and start thinking big picture. I was Googling all the, you know, all the different comebacks. Kobe was eight months, came back, then got hurt three weeks later, which is why I only played six games a year. Durant was longer, but everybody felt like Durant could have come back for the playoffs and just didn't.

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The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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But you start, your mind's just going everywhere. And there's that Jalen Brown piece that, Maybe with all the money that this team is due, maybe they blow it up next year. Maybe this is the summer to trade Jalen Brown. What's he worth? You start going down rat road. What would people get for him? Is it worth it to trade him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Or could he carry the torch for a year until Tatum comes back in February? it's really split what he's worth with the Celtic fans that watch him every day. Cause the more you see somebody, they become like your spouse where you start thinking of all this stuff. Like, ah, that drives me crazy. When they do that, you stop seeing, you can't relate to that at all. I get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Um, but he was really good tonight. And to me, that's the reason not to trade him. because I still feel like he's one of the 20 best guys in the league. What he did tonight is the case for like, don't blow it up. Maybe Tatum can be back in February. Maybe you only have to shave her on the salary sides. Maybe you're a five, six, seven seed. Maybe Tatum rounds in the shape until April.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Maybe Jalen Brown can hold this fort with the infrastructure, Missoula, and the fact that the East is going to suck. To me, this game is going to make me think of that this summer. What do you think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And that is going to be a prop with Jokic points rebounds. I'm going over. I would advise you to tell me, but you can go check it out. They add a profit boost to it. So go check out the FanDuel Sportsbook app before the game on Thursday. Anyway, big podcast coming first. Our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, recording this part of the podcast a little before 7PT.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I made a lot on you there. Sorry, but the four minute, four minute first take intro.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Those four players are not going to be... White's the only one who doesn't go. Are you sure? Yeah, for what his value is and his age and all the stuff he brings to the table, I think he's one of the 40 best guys in the league. If you're making a list, like when I do ringer 100, he's always in the 40 to 45 range. For what he's making money-wise, you have to keep him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, but Porzingis, they still have to get a contract back. It's not like they can just be like, here, take his contract. Well, but you still have to get some sort of money back. You're not just wiping the slate. You're taking back like Rui Hachimor or whoever it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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17 points at 30 minutes. He's good. But they could patch it together with the infrastructure because this team plays really well together and they have a certain style slash system.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I think either Horford, depending on if he wants to chase the title or just stay in Boston. one of the most beloved Celtics teammates slash veterans they've ever had in the history of the franchise. I'd be surprised if he was like, all right, I'll see you guys later. I'm going to play for Orlando. I guess he's going to be 40 next year. I don't, you know, you don't want to start just chasing stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

1929.3

He already won the title last year. It's not like he needs a ring. But I think it's probably Porzingis or Drew. That would be one of those two. And Drew probably has a little more value based on what's happened to Porzingis at this point. Now, his contract's not great. He's got three years left after this. But the type of guy, the winning guy. Well, you try to do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So you're trying to get somebody with less money that you're shaving. If they shave $7 million off in a trade, it turns out it's like $70 million with all this repeater tax, all this stuff. So that's, I think, what they would be trying to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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There's bigger trades if you wanted to go nuts where it'd be like Jalen Brown and Drew Holiday to Houston and you get a bunch of stuff back, but you're taking $20 million less in salary and you're basically rebuilding while also staying good. I know, but that's why that stuff's not going to happen. I'm just saying.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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The big monster, if you were playing this as a video game and it wasn't human beings and real people, He'd be like, oh, I'll just do this and I'll just build the round table. But they're not doing that. Especially the new owner. He's not going to want to come in and be like, I blow stuff up to save money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Or it might even be as simple as Sam Hauser gets traded this summer because a lot of teams could use a really good three-point shooting. He's not making it. Shooter is not making a ton of money. And then you figure out in February where you are and whether you want to shave salary or not because Porzingis has been expiring at that point. But I can't. I think the Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I just can't believe we're having this conversation. It was inconceivable a week ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Jalen had 26 points, 12 assists and eight rebounds. And my fear for the game today was he can't dribble. Um, and I just, I just thought the Knicks would be like smothering him and be like, this guy can't dribble. Let's go get him. But he was pretty comfortable running the offense. And, um, and I thought, I just thought he did a good job. I thought he was patient. He only took 17 shots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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My fear was he was going to take like 30, but he didn't. And they were pretty democratic, as you said, with the, uh, with the ball. So, you know, the question is, was this a moral victory or something more? Did they figure out something in this game that they can take? So they figured out the cornet piece.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, they figured out ball movement, the cornet piece, and just continue to hope Towns isn't a complete idiot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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But you and I figured out Porzingis couldn't play in this series two games ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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No, he hasn't. The only time he's been good, there's been some decent defensive stuff where he's just had his arms up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yes. But did I expect him to turn into Taco Fall? I didn't. I didn't realize that was going to be his new role on this team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Oh, my God. This Jalen Brown piece, though. There's no way, right? Because I want Tatum and Brown to retire together. I don't want them to trade Jalen Brown. And yet around the league, people are like, watch, Jalen's going to be the one who goes. They're going to blow it up. And I just, I don't see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Can I talk about Tatum's first eight seasons with you for a split second? Because I continue to think he's incredibly underrated and it sadly took a major, major injury for people to go, oh man, that guy was really good. This is too bad. I don't think anyone took more shit unnecessarily. All he did was get better every year and really give a shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm President of Select States. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Okay. There's been nine guys since the merger season who in their first eight seasons played over 20,000 minutes and scored 13,000 points or more and had 3,000 rebounds or more and 2,000 assists or more. MJ, LeBron, Bird, Barkley, KD, Harden, Pierce, Tatum, and Mark Aguirre, weirdly. There's been 14 guys ever in their first eight seasons

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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who played 100-plus playoff games and scored at least 15 points a game in those games. Bird, Tatum, Duncan, Kobe, Worthy, Kawhi, Jalen, Magic, Parker, McHale, Pippen, Manu, and Byron Scott. And there's been four guys who have played 100 playoff games in their first eight years and had 28-4 as their stats. 20 points a game, eight rebounds, four assists. LeBron, Wilt, Bird, Elgin, and Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Once upon a time, you knew him as the czar of reality TV, and he ran all of the audio and video for Grantland, a job that many people have tried to take credit for, but I can promise you he did it 100% himself. Now he is the host of The Mismatch, along with Chris Vernon, among many other things. My guy, Dave Jacoby, is here. Die easy, Knicks fan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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What was so interesting about his career from a historical standpoint was how much postseason... mileage and success that he had. He's 72 playoff wins. He's just turned 27. It's so, like Jordan didn't have nearly that many playoff wins by the time he was 27. Like even, you know, LeBron didn't have a hundred wins by the time he was 27.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So he was amassing this career that one of the best things about it was the durability and the fact that year after year, he was playing into May and June potentially. And he was on a really good team in a good spot. And he was, I think, one of the three most durable guys of this century. Him and Giannis and LeBron, where it almost seemed like an accident if they even sprained their ankle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, Giannis had one where he fell and broke a bone in his back. But for the most part... Playoff availability.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, yeah. And in a minute, that's all gone. But I just thought that first eight years he had was really crazy. I never thought about it until that injury.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And he'll always bring defense and rebounding and he'll help the game in other ways, even if a shot isn't going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, so I would argue the Celtic fans feel the opposite. Like he's a beloved Celtic. And I think the reason he's beloved is because all he does is like work his ass off, try to get better, be a good example. Doesn't ever say anything controversial, doesn't ever get in any kind of trouble, obviously. And all he is is just additive in all these different ways.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And I think when you watch it day in and day out, that's what you notice when you're a fan of the team. I think if you're not a fan of the team, And you're judging people by, are they interesting? Are they up and down? Can I have conversations about them?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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There's just not a lot of Tatum conversations, but like he's not as nearly as good as Tim Duncan, who's one of the, I have him as the seventh best player ever, but Tim Duncan used to take a lot of the same shit. He wasn't as interesting as Kobe. Remember? He wasn't as fun to watch as Steve Nash. He wasn't, he didn't care as much as KG. He wasn't as vocal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And there were always, every time he got compared to anybody, even now, all these X player podcasts, they always shit on Duncan or they, you know, go out of their way to talk about, Oh no, Kobe was better. Kobe was way better. You know, but I just think some guys do that. You don't think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I did book this before we knew the results of Game 5, just for the record.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Did you think LeBron was like the most personable guy on the planet? The first eight, nine years of his career, this was even a knock on him during that time where people are like, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Nobody could get a handle on him for the first almost and really until like the second or third Miami years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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We always had like KG, Anthony Edwards. Those are the kind of players that people seem to gravitate to. Anthony Edwards is the best example. Because they all seem authentic. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, well, it's not the first time I've heard that. I think my argument for Tatum is he doesn't try to be anything he's not. You know, he's not trying, he doesn't want to host SNL and he doesn't want to be in an Adam Sandler movie. He doesn't want to do any of that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I mean, one of the things, some of the, some of the like little stealth combos I've had are just people worried about, removing basketball from his life, how's he going to handle the next four or five months? He's never had a major injury. He's been hooping basically since he was growing up in St. Louis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Everything is about like trying to get better, trying to get better, trying to catch people, trying to hit different levels and trying to be one of the 10 best players in the league, trying to be one of the best five, trying to win a title. Can I be the best player in the league? And not only is that chase over, but your body's been like really injured for the first time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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How are you going to handle that? You know, and I think the good thing for him is Kobe was his idol, which you mentioned before, but Kobe had the exact same injury and really documented what it was like to have that injury and how he fought back from it and how he, you know, the work starts now, how great do you want to be?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And I don't know, he, he weirdly laid like the Bible for how to attack something like this for somebody like Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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What did you think was going to happen? Yeah. I mean, I guarantee you didn't think we would be calling this on the podcast title for this episode. The Luke Cornette game. But that was that was the outcome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Hmm. Well, he's one of those guys within the organization. Absolutely beloved. Um, Just, you know, you have a lot of different people over the years who could be the face of a franchise and he's really embraced it. He's embraced the relationships with the guys who used to be on the team, the former stars and just kind of gets it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Gets, you know, he came in when he was 19 and just kind of gets that this is a slightly different franchise than the usual franchise that has a lot of history and, you know, a lot of baggage, good and bad. Um, but it's, it's the bummer for this is it took him getting injured.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I think for people to appreciate, you know, people, especially in this day and age, you're picking apart, you're picking apart. This guy doesn't do this. This guy doesn't say, you know, you know what it is. He was the fourth best guy in the league and he was still getting better. And he was playing probably the best all around game of his career in the game that he got hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And there was still room for him to get better and better. And now who knows what, if he hit that limit or not. Durant came back, and I felt like he was just about where he left in that 21 playoffs against Milwaukee, right? Yeah. Scoring-wise, it felt like he came back. So that would be the hope, and it seems like they caught it pretty early. But man, I was thinking...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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it has to be one of the worst NBA injuries from a, from a hitting a guy at a certain point of his career. And also what it meant to like a team like Bill Walton hurting his foot. That probably changed the course of a couple of titles. It's been a couple of these. It's,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Derrick Rose is one where it felt like that was the team that was positioned to battle LeBron for the 2010s, and then he's just gone. So we've had these. Sampson in 86 when he fell and hurt his back. He was never really the same after that. There's been a few of these, but it's hard to remember a first-team OMBA guy just getting wiped out for not just the playoffs. Brandon Roy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I was like, it used to be his gimmick was the three point shooting. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Brandon Moriarty, he wasn't as good as Tatum though. You know, like Tatum's been first team on NBA four years in a row. And one of the things that was, was so amazing about him is it felt like he was indestructible. You just felt like just pencil him in for 39 minutes a game and he'll get 13 rebounds in every game. So it's a tough one. The only thing I can compare.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yesterday was brutal. What happened? Take me through it. I was just farting around all day. I did a power walk. I was on Twitter. I was just basically refreshing Twitter, waiting for the word and checking my texts. Um, now when you get older as a sports fan, it starts reminding you of things that happened. So the obvious one was the Brady ACL. That's the only other time I remember.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And then when Cam Neely got hurt in the Pittsburgh series and then when I was in college, that was another one. But, um, but at that point we didn't know he was going to, it was going to change.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, I think the Brady one was the worst one. Cause that was when you just start thinking in terms of, this is how long it's actually going to be versus when you're younger and it's like, oh, it could be back in February. He'll be fine. But you're like, no, this is actually probably two years and the whole team might be different and maybe they missed their window.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Oh, I definitely had that thought. I don't know how you don't, especially with the financial stuff and the money. But they're so good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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They just beat the Knicks. Then you start thinking of the window of like, From 22, 23, 24, 25, they make the finals in 22 and Curry just goes to another level and they're not ready yet. They lose. 23, they get to the game seven against Miami. I'll still, I'll always wonder what would happen if Tatum doesn't sprain his ankle in the first 40 seconds of the game because I still feel like

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I just thought he was going to be awesome that game. 24, they win. This year, Cleveland gets bounced. They have a chance. But here's the other thing. The Knicks were about to go up 3-1 in that series with Taylor. They were winning anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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They might have won the key game of the series right before he got hurt. It was already over. They were down 70. OG was getting that. OG was getting that loose ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

3105.11

Yeah, I remember writing about it. OKC make the finals in 12. They do the hard end trade. Westbrook gets injured in 13. In 14, San Antonio beats. And then all of a sudden, they get to the Klay Thompson game. Klay catches fire. They lose that in seven. They had this stretch of like, oh, that team's going to be in the finals the whole decade. And they won one finals game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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The over-under was probably 10 finals games. They won one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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You talk about windows. I would say this is the window for the Knicks. is almost more dramatic. The Celtics get nudged out of this, potentially. Cleveland's out. You have Indiana now, and I think you have home court, right? Yeah, what do you think, dude? And then you just think like, all right, OKC, not afraid of them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Young team, Brunson versus SGA head-to-head, we could take that, or whether it's Minnesota. But yeah, I mean, the Knicks have never had a window... that looked as good as this. Even in 99, they had no chance in that Spurs series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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They won it. The one what if, I mean the obvious what if with the Rockets in 94, but the bigger what if for me is that 93 Bulls series. They were every bit as good as the 93 Bulls. They were right there and that was an either or series and you could drive yourself crazy with that. This is an amazing chance for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, which is so weird. But, I mean, there was one of the first 30 for 30s was made about the Knicks Pacers mid-90s rivalry. It's a real thing that exists. But, by the way, it was a really good documentary.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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There was no, no, like four hours there of, are you guys worried about the Pacers at all? And then people reassuring each other. No, no, we're not worried about them at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, Jalen's in that. Yeah, he must be. TNT's Jalen Rose? TNT's Jalen Rose, killing it. Racing Dwight Howard to the monitor?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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What are you doing there, Dwight? How about that question?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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FanDuel updated their Knicks Celtics odds. Oh, God. And the Knicks are now minus 270. They were, I think, minus 620 heading into today's game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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This is the volatility of this. For the playoffs, I mean, for the conference, Knicks are plus 125 and Indiana is also plus 125.

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The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, what's crazy about game four, the Tatum injury puts a little bit of a black cloud over what would have been one of the great Knicks wins ever and still is. Oh, one of the great games, dude. One of the great games. But now, now you have this Friday night game six ticket in New York City, which I think will be the hardest Knicks ticket to get. I don't even know when.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I don't know if the demand for the 99 finals was even up there because it just feels like there's more Knicks fans now. There's two new generations of Knicks fans since 99. Everyone's going to want to be at this game and it's going to be an incredible game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I'm always, I always find that amazing. You know, I go to a few basketball games and people will tape like the national anthem and They'll record the cheerleaders. They're like, yeah, cheerleaders. This is all being recorded by professionals. I was actually getting mad. The game for Clippers Nuggets, which Jokic played one of the best games I've seen in person in a long time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And there were a couple influencers sitting in front of us, just oblivious to it. And just hoping that the game would be closed so they could tape the thing and then do this. Yeah. And I'm just, I just wanted to like, just hit them over the head with a Coke can. It's just like, how can you not focus on this guy is one of the best basketball players of the last 30 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And he's like painting a masterpiece right now. And you guys are fucking on Tik TOK. Get off our lawn, Jacoby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And who's watching this video in 40 years? Your kids are like, oh, yeah, I'm still deleting dad's iCloud. He's at some Clipper game. Just taking photos of the cheerleaders.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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It disappears in 24 hours. Speaking of Jokic, I was so bummed. I just, I just love that guy. I was so bummed out last night. The first three plus quarters. That was unbelievable. Watching him do that to OKC where he's deciding every moment of every situation. And just single-handedly dragging the Nuggets to the finish line. And then it just came down to Lou Dort made a couple shots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Jalen Williams made a three that I never thought was going in. And the Nuggets missed basically every open shot they took. And all of a sudden Nuggets were going home and they look like they're screwed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, with Russ, they're like, yo, did you see that Ramona story about Russ with the unnamed teammate? Let's leave him open. Porter's got one arm. Russ is pissed about the story. We'll leave him open. If that Peyton Watson comes in, leave him open. Strother open. You're just pointing at guys that just are going to be open.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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If you had freeze-framed that and it was the biggest shot of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I would have said 10% odds. I didn't think. You could have talked me into an air ball or a hits the side of the backboard before it hits the rim. I just thought no chance. But he's pretty good in that game. I still don't trust him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Oh, it's going to be worse if it's Pacers-Knicks this year. It'll be even worse. And let's be honest, it's probably going to be Pacers-Knicks. I'll just tell you my mindset. First of all, I was hearing, my dad was there. And it was a late arriving crowd because it was a 7 o'clock start plus a shitload of traffic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah. The coach afterwards was talking about how, you know, I had to play a little Russian roulette there basically with the okay. So I just had to keep them out there and keep our fingers crossed. It's like, yeah. Cause what else were you going to do? The, the moment he comes out, you're going to be minus 10. The second he steps out of the game, it's weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I felt that first of all, I thought that was the best playoff game. I think of the whole playoffs just from a quality.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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This was like exceptionally well played. Like the execution defense, the execution was just went to a whole other level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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But I was just thinking about all the stuff Jokic had to just see and deal with. It was like a quarterback just being blitzed every play, just trying to figure out what to do. So weirdly, like I voted for him for MVP. I feel better that I voted for him after watching that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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But SGA was equally awesome down the stretch and showed all the reasons why if you voted for him, you'd feel good about that, right? He's got a good team. But when they really needed him, he made just about every play it felt like to help them. So it was weird to watch a game where both guys won. They had that moment where they kind of traded baskets for a second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And I was like, what a great MVP race that was. Because both of these guys are incredible. And Jokic is... There's just nobody like this. I keep talking about it on the pods. We're not going to see anything like this again for a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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You know, It's he approaches basketball. It's like when you, when you watch golf and they talk about Scotty Scheffler, uh, 24th last week, fix something in his swing. And he said he was leaning back a little bit on his drives and then he'll just rip a drive straight down the fairway. Like, oh yeah, I fixed the swing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Jokic is like doing that during a series where it's like, Nikoli Jokic didn't have a great game four. He noticed some things in the tape. He fixed his whatever. And then it's just like, he's completely solved OKC, who's doing the same thing. But now instead of speeding him up, making him do things he doesn't want to do, he's just on it. Like he's got them on a fucking yo-yo. I thought,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And there were some Knicks fans because I think some Celtic fans after the Tatum injury were like putting the tickets on. So you could hear the Knicks things. They show Chalamet at one point courtside. And it turned into a not in our house. We can't let this happen. Every time you heard the Knicks three or some sort of good Knicks play in the first, you know, 40 minutes of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I just thought he was so awesome in that game. It's a much more fun series if Denver wins that game and we get to really see OKC with their backs to the wall.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, it's like, OK, guys, go to Denver. Let's see if you can win this one. Cleveland was in a similar situation yesterday and they just cratered from it. They couldn't handle it. It was a full-fledged cratering.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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It happened to him in Utah, too. I'm wondering maybe it's him. Maybe it's not the sporting guest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Maybe he's just eating too much of the food in the fridge and everybody else is just hungry and forgets how to eat.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Perfect situation for them. I'm sure they're going to learn some things from this tape. I'm sure Luke Cornett's not going to do that again. I'm sure they're going to attack Jalen Brown a little differently, but still some pressure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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They've been down 14 plus in every single game of the series, including today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, there you go. He was really wrong about Memphis. He thought Memphis had a window. They never even bought the window.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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It's smart. It's a great way to play it. It's a good move. Dave Jacoby. We got to do another rewatchables at some point too. People are still bringing up Project X. It's one of the highlights of their lives. Yeah. All right. Good to see you, my friend. Good to see you too. All right, we're recording this on a Monday, but it's going to run Wednesday. Kathy Engelbert is here, WNBA commissioner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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First, like, real-time 40 minutes. And you could hear the loud Knicks fans, and it was like, this would be really awful. If the Knicks, like, win this, their fans are celebrating. It cuts to the end, the wide shot. Only the Knicks fans are left. Chalamet is pointing at people. I was like, I just, we got to win this. It turned into Hoosiers, and the Celtics rose to the challenge, Jacoby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Pretty exciting season coming ahead, including a new San Francisco expansion team. As you know, my life with the WNBA has been complicated because I was not a fan for a long time. And then as the years passed, really started to get into it the last couple of years. And I don't think I'm alone in that, right? How many new fans...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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or converted fans have drifted in the last couple of years that you've seen?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, it feels like when the whole Steph Curry era of how basketball got a little smaller, the shooting expanded out, there was more slash and kick stuff. And I think that's helped the league more than anything for WNBA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Like when you go back and you look at the games from 20, 25 years ago and they were resembling, you know, everybody had like big players and you're trying to post up and establish. And now when you watch it, like the pace of it's better now, um, the skills bet. Like I, I just, I like, I went to a finals game and I was like blown away by, uh, by the quality of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Um, and also there's a bunch of good players. You're in like a really nice little talent boom here. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, it's the old school motto that I'm sure we both grew up with, where you'd watch the players in college for a couple of years. they would come to the NBA, you'd feel like you knew them. You know, like Ewing was at Georgetown for four years. It was like, I knew that guy by the time he got to the Knicks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And the NBA, I think the one thing, not that the NBA is doing badly, but the one thing that they lost a little bit as the one and done era started was just not having these guys would come in and they would go to bad teams. And, you know, for every Anthony Edwards, there'll be other guys that... might show up on a team, not make the playoffs for five years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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You just didn't have the same connection. You have this advantage now. I mean, you're using college basketball as this amazing feeder system. You know, like when Juju got hurt during the tournament, I was like, ah, like... I was so excited to see if she, what, what team she, if she was going to come out for the draft, what team she might go for. Um, but you just feel like a different connection.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Coming up, the Celtics are still alive and we're going to talk some WNBA. Yeah. How about that podcast? It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I have a new Rewatchables coming next Monday because it's still big ass 70s month. We did Death Wish this week. Next week, we're doing Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Steven Spielberg, 1977. Huge movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So Paige Beckers, I feel like she's been in college for forever. Whereas like Cooper flag was at Duke for six months, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, and then the number two pick in the draft is. The YouTube clips were nuts. And it seemed like one of those things, like obviously Becker's going to go first. She's famous. Like you can build a franchise around her and she's excellent. And she's won everywhere she's been. Then you have this French kid that when you watch, I did a token YouTube deep dive on her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I was like, I'm not quite sure I've seen this before in women's basketball. So how do you like market somebody like that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, with her, like the dunking, everybody gets excited if a woman's part dunks. It's going back to like, you know, the 80s. The way she moves is just different. And to me, when I was watching, I was like, I don't know if I've seen a player navigate the court like this at this size. So that'll be fun. You know, you mentioned how the league's in this awesome place right now, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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You 13, you have the San Francisco team is going to be launching. I think you have Portland and Toronto coming down the road.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So let's talk about that, though, because the history of when professional sports leagues grow and things start to get a little good and then they start expansion for a couple of expanding because you get the expansion fees. There's interest. There's money in there. What's the what's the right number of teams? Because for me, I don't think it should be more than 16.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Like, I'm really hoping that you don't all of a sudden you're at 24 and you end up in a situation where the the teams, you know, everybody just has one good player and that's it. Like, how do you know what the right number is?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Low supply, high demand is a good thing, but yeah, you go back, you go back 60, 70 years with sports. Yeah. This is how you get in trouble when you're like, hey, we're doing good. Let's grab some teams. So you had a year and a half ago, Portland and Golden State were the expansion teams. And I think it was like, what was it? 50 million was the fee.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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But Portland was 50 and now the price is like 125 to get in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So it's already gone up two and a half times in a year and a half?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Okay. So that's 22 home games. And then the playoffs...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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All right. So before you took the job, you're looking back at the 2010s, which the WNBA was in such bad shape that Diana Taurasi, who's the best player in the history of the league, just decided to skip a season because it wasn't worth enough money for her. And she was making more money overseas. And it seemed bleak.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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It seemed like a business that wasn't going to make it and that the NBA was basically subsidizing almost like a charity case. So what flips over the last eight years, other than Caitlin Clark? What are the big reasons? But even before Caitlin came into the league, this was happening. So style of play. What else do you think it was?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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You remember once upon a time, our guy Ben Affleck, 03 range, Red Sox had him win a World Series in over a decade. And he brought J-Lo, Yankee fan, grew up in the Bronx, literally called Jenny from the Bronx and brought her into the good Red Sox seats for Red Sox Yankees. And it was like... I'm glad you're here, Tim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I would throw in two other things. One is the women's final four that Friday night on ESPN, especially that semifinals doubleheader. It felt like all this and it was doing well, but it felt like something shifted with that where that really became like a casual sports fan event, not just the real basketball fans, but everybody. And all of a sudden that those games seem to really matter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And then that becomes the feeder system. The other thing you had a couple of owners that actually gave a shit. and looked at their franchises and their place in the league and tried to innovate. It seemed like the size with the Liberty, like what Mark Davis did with Las Vegas with, what did he do, giveaway tickets for like three years to try to build support?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was really trying to get people in the building to give a crap about it. And that seems like, you know, those are those are, I think, two of the sterling leaders of the league now. But it seems like because the owners really care. So it's almost like a neighborhood where once people start fixing up their house, then everybody feels like they have to fix up their house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So you have the players union, there's going to be a CBA that you're going to have to negotiate with them. You have all this interest from all these people who either buying franchises already did and the prices have gone way up, but yet the business model hasn't been proven to be successful yet. So you're still investing in it. It's still growing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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The attendance has gone way, way up the last couple of years. You're in this new meteorites deal where I think you at least tripled what you were making before. Yeah. but you're only still doing 44 games a year plus the playoffs. Also you have, what's the thing you had where people bought in, they bought percentages of the teams. So you have like the syndicate that owns a piece of the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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We're not going to have our buddy to have nine beers and he's throwing up behind the tent pole and asking the caddy master for darts. Afterwards, we're going straight home. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, I kept, you know, from the moment Tatum's tragic injury happened when we found out the results. And then I got some people in my life who are like, is there a Ewing theory possibilities here? And just for the record... First of all, I love Jason Tatum. Second of all, I'm not eligible because they won the title with him last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So you took that investment. It's almost like a startup business. Thought they were a startup. Doing like a round. Getting people to invest. No different than if you had like an AI company or something. People buy in, use that money, throw it back in the league in all these different ways. And it actually paid off. The part that... So it's funny. This has come full circle almost where...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

5510.114

A lot of the good stuff that was happening for WNBA the first 20 years solely happened because of the relationship with the NBA and basically Stern pushing it and being like, you have to show the NBA. It has to be on TV. Like basically forcing the networks to take it as part of the NBA package. Now in this last deal,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I was watching from afar going, would WNBA have been better off not being attached to the NBA at all? Would they have been better off being on their own, like doing their own thing just entirely?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, so how do you make sure you're not perceived as being too big yet? Because the next step for this is like charter plans for every team. Salary cap goes way up and things start happening financially that maybe don't. capture where the league is economically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So you're the one in charge of balancing that, especially when you have a bunch of agents coming in, you have players who expect to be paid certain way. I've seen some of the quotes already from people who play for the league who, you know, rightly want as much money as they could possibly make.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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The whole point of the Ewing theory is the team never won the title, best player gets hurt, and then the team rises to the occasion without him in some way. With that said... it did open the door for some stuff that has been pretty frustrating about this Celtics team where they ought to band together. They had to get a little more creative offensively. There was a lot more cutting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So everybody got chartered last year because two years ago, that was a big...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So do you think, could you see a world where there's almost like what they're talking about in the NBA where there's, a European version of the league and there's some sort of you WNBA season happens, that season happens. And then there's like a world finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

5869.781

So you have to figure out the CBA. What's the timeline for the next deal?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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There was a lot more ball movement and some of the stuff that would handicap this team in the past where it was either Tatum or Brown with the ball, just dribbling, especially when they had a lead and the lead would start to further away. And then it just turned into one-on-one basketball. That never happened in this game because the guards were more involved. Cornette was cutting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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All right, so here's my big nitpick. I hate that these games go against NFL on Sundays. Like, huge. I heard that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So that was the counter. You guys actually did really well going against football. It was like this almost like an alternative football audience that just crashed homes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

6033.903

Yeah. Well, the other challenge seems to be you're basically like the matriarch of this family and you want all the kids to get shine in all these different ways. But then you've also stumbled into this phenomenon in Caitlin that's like... a once a decade thing. Like the last time it really happened in sports was probably Steph Curry in 2014, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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When the Warriors thing really started taking off and you could just feel the energy shift. I remember going to a Warriors game the year before the 73 win season and just get in there early because I wanted to see media people. And people were in the arena just in case he was still going to be there for warmups. I was like, ah, this is this is like different. This has not happened for a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

607.47

The passing was really good. That was by far the best game they played in the playoffs, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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You have this now with Caitlin. So how, how do you balance pushing her versus like making sure like Asia Wilson, her shoe just sold out in five minutes. So it's not like some of the other players aren't doing well, but how do you balance making sure you're not just too focused on her and, But you also don't want to not focus on her not enough. You know what I mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Like I said on a pod, I think she's the most popular under 30 team sport athlete we have. Now that Mahomes is 30, I think, Anyone under 30? I think she has anyone in any sport at this point, just from a recognizability.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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That always helps when a guy's flame shooting out of Derek White's ass was a bonus. But the Knicks had Josh Hart made more threes in a half hour than he made all playoffs, it felt like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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She could have gotten a couple of calls in the finals. I thought, I thought she could have gotten some superstar calls. I was upset about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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If the gambling comes, that's when you really know. Because I know like Fandel was saying, they actually had like real interest, especially as it went to the playoffs. So that's like a whole other... a whole other, like that's what you know you're doing okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Caitlin, five plus threes with Indiana to win. Yeah, that's just where we are with some sports viewership at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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So you're kind of stuck with your schedule now going May, October. There's no way to go to 50 games. It's just too hard with the basketball playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, you're also, you have the college season ends April 4th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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You know what's interesting? The WNBA is actually good for fantasy. You just made me think of that when you were talking before about the football fantasy because NBA fantasy stinks now because the season's too long and all the injuries and guys go and it's just like, there's no rhyme or reason to it. And I was like an original, I was playing fantasy basketball in the 80s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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WNBA is actually because the shorter season Um, works better. Now you got my brains turning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah. All right. All right. Sounds like everything's going good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, they missed the boat with Tarasi because she's the best.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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She's a great hang. She's just cool. I never understood that one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Who knows? She should have been more famous. I need a team this year. Last year, I had the Lynx because I bet on them halfway through the season. Almost pulled it off. But this year, because Boston doesn't have a team yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, congrats. You guys are in great shape. Thanks for coming on. I'm glad you're doing well. Don't expand too fast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Settle the CBA thing. Keep the league going. All right. Good to see you. Thanks for coming on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo. Thanks to Kathy Engelbert for joining us. Thanks to my old friend, Dave Jacoby. Love that guy. Great to have him aboard. And I'm going to be back in 24 hours after OKC and Denver game six. You can watch it live on YouTube on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. I'll see you in 24 hours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Yeah. Well, they had to get more creative because Tatum becomes this security blanket that you can always rely on because he's, you know, can create a shot whenever he wants. But now, hey, Drew Holiday should probably post up a little bit more. Let's try a couple of those. Let's set picks for Derek White. So there was some stuff that was happening that was some really good basketball. I also think

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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This version of the Knicks, I think they have some good one-on-one defenders, but as a team defense thing, this has been a problem for them all year. They're usually against it. They're attacking Towns. They got Towns into foul trouble. No, no.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Awesome movie. It's going to be me and Sean and Chris Ryan. We also did a little thing for Ringer Movies about the Superman trailer. If you subscribe to the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, you can subscribe to the Bill Simmons YouTube channel as well, where I'm going to be going live tomorrow night, Thursday, with Rob Mahoney after OKC Denver Game 6. Four podcasts this week. It's that time of year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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They did. Towns got himself into foul trouble, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Well, they did a good job of having players with the basketball near towns as he had spasms and ran into people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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His body was developing a resistance to Rufus. It was actually not working as well against him because he kept going back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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None of them are even questionable. Well, I had some Knicks fans in my life who were, I won't name them, who were very upset about Tony Brothers in the third quarter just putting fouls on Brunson. I thought four of the five fouls were like no-brainer. You had to call them calls.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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The one where he fouled Derek White's elbow with his face, I always have a problem with that call because I'm not sure where your face is supposed to go if somebody's diving into you. But ironically, the person who benefits the most from that call on the flip side of it is Jalen Brunson because he gets a lot of fouls that way where he just lurches into guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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Your body can only do so many things when you're over six feet tall and standing up. If an elbow's coming at your face, it's probably going to hit your face. You can't do the matrix.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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But that was the only one that I thought was the shaky call. So there's some big picture Celtics stuff, and then we can talk about the Knicks pieces. Actually, let's talk about the Knicks pieces first, just to mix it up. So the Knicks hasn't been the most fun 21st century, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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And finally, all of these different things have broken this year for them, including, unfortunately, for the Celtics and for the NBA. But this Tatum injury is obviously a huge competitive advantage for the Knicks. The Seas have parted. They were plus 700 before the series. They stole a couple fourth quarters. I thought they played really well in the second half of Game 4, deserved to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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They get this break with the Tatum injury. Now they're heading into the finals of the East if they win this. They don't have to play Cleveland. They get to play Indiana and get revenge on them. So everything's aligning. And then they blow this game. And now we're going MSG on Friday. And there's a lot of DNA now. swimming in the pool. There hasn't been a lot of happy memories the last 25 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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A lot of basketball going on. We didn't even get to talk with Dave Jacoby, who's coming up in a second, about Warriors Minnesota because that series was over the moment Steph Curry got hurt. Jimmy Butler, at this point in his career, was not able to win Golden State a game, no shots fired at Jimmy Butler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Luke Kornet Game and Tatum’s Road Back With David Jacoby. Plus, WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert

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I'm sorry. My bad. I know that was once a frequent porn search of yours. But yeah. So the Celtics achieved their goal. They protected home court. Chalamet wasn't pointing at Knicks fans after the game. And now there's pressure on the Knicks. who still have a better team, but at least now there's some pressure pushed the other way with that Game 7 in Boston looming, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Well, what's funny is Minnesota is a really good road team. They're 20 and 15 now on the road, which I think other than OKC is the best record in the West. The Clippers are a terrible road team. They're 14 and 20. I don't think the Lakers care where they play. And they're going to have Laker fans at any whatever. I think it matters for Houston, though. Houston, I kept waiting to fall off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And it felt like it was going to happen a couple of times, but they're kind of lingering around, hanging around. And Lakers-Houston would be a really, really fun kind of old school, new school series. I don't know how the Lakers are going to hold on if LeBron misses three to four weeks here. And who knows?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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We've seen him recover really fast sometimes and recover really slow other times when there was less at stake. But when you take him out of it... But you take his you take the rebounding defense second playmaker thing on top of all the other stuff they've already lost. And it just feels like insurmountable for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Their next ones are at Denver Friday, home Suns, home Spurs. Might be able to go two and one in those three. Home Nuggets, home Bucks, home Bulls. Josh Giddey Renaissance is here. At Orlando, at Indiana, at Chicago, at Memphis, home Rockets. That's the rest of the month. So they have to go 500 in that stage. But do you care if you're the seven seed?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And then I brought my dad on because he wanted to do a Boston sports report and went to the OKC Celtic game last night. And I had to indulge him. Anyway, that is next. Here are our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Kurt Goldsberry is here. You can read him on TheRinger.com. You can listen to him on various Ringer podcasts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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So you're probably playing the Clippers in the 7-8 game, right? With real stakes because you don't want to see any part of OKC in round one. And you're playing the Clippers at home. Like it would suck to be the seventh seed and have the extra game. But if I'm Golden State, I'm fine. You know, all right, fine. We'll beat the Clippers in the 7-8 and we'll just play the two seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Like it's not a complete disaster. It's a disaster if you lose though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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So do you like the 7-8-9-10 or would you go 7-10-8-9?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Part of me wonders if it should be 7-10, 8-9, and then the 7 still doesn't necessarily... It's not a win or go home for the 7-10. They would still get to play the 8-9 with home court. But the way they have it, I think, probably makes more sense. And the 7-8 is usually a really good game. I mean, part of the problem with playing this year is... The 10 seed in both conferences sucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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At least in the West, they have an excuse because of what happened to Dallas, the Zombie Mavericks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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But they're still the 10 seed. The Zombie Mavericks with Spencer Dinwiddie and... Uh, I don't even know what center they'd have left and PJ Washington. They might actually be the 10 seed. Phoenix is just like, guys, we've been trying to make this clear for two months. We want to have the season from out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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We don't want to be in there, but you go to the, the East and it's like, ah, all right, Chicago, Chicago is 27 and 38. It might be in there. And then you look at Miami, who's 29 and 36. They've lost five. Joe House on the Ringer Gambling Show for the last two weeks, he's convinced Miami's tanking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And his thing on the last two weeks on the Ringer Gambling Show is bet against them second half, live bet against them. They take a lead first half, then they throw it away second half. I don't know if that's true. but they're a fucking mess, and Bam looks terrible lately.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Anyway, I think the 9-10 in the East has a chance to be one of the more depressing playing games we've had, maybe the number one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Sucks us out for the year. Magic are a cross off to me. Atlanta at least has all of these wings when they get everybody back and healthy and then the random Trey Young who the hell knows game. And they have some size that could always be the Okongwu in a playing game with like 24 rebounds. I feel like Orlando is a cross off. Sorry, Saruti.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I mean, look at this. The Cavs are going to get Orlando, Miami or Chicago. Unless one of those teams beats Atlanta. But yeah, I think Atlanta is like, I'm not going to say they're frisky. But they're 32 and 34. I've watched them a lot. I have an overbet on them. And just in general, I kind of enjoy watching them. And I think they're not bad. You know, they're in the Western.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, the Hawks. Unfortunately, Jalen Johnson out for the year. But, you know, this is why you believe in Zach Riesesche. This is why I spent the number one pick on him. Let's take a break. And then we'll talk about OKC and Boston. This episode is brought to you by Audi. The all-new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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When you pick a player to score more than 30 points, this is a lot of fun. You can make a little more money, root for somebody to get 30. I tweet my picks. On Friday, there's some good games on Friday, including Clippers Atlanta, Memphis, Cleveland, Orlando, Minnesota. So we'll come up with a couple of good possibilities. And FanDuel, remember, is the home for all of your favorite prop bets.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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So whether you want to ride with my picks or make your own, just look for 30 on 30. and the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to FanDuel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday night. Don't forget, I'm going to tweet my pick. Make every moment more with FanDuel. You must be 21 plus. The president select states are 18 plus and president DC. Opt-in required.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Bonus issue is now in trouble. Profits boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at Sportsbook.FanDuel.com. Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. Hey, before we talk about OKC in Boston quickly, the bottom seven right now, Washington 13 wins, Utah 15, Charlotte 16, New Orleans 18.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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That's going to be our bottom four for capture the flag. Then we have Philly, 22 wins. Brooklyn, 22 wins. Toronto, 23 wins. Russillo's furious. Toronto's making a run at their season over out of nowhere, even though they were supposed to be tanking. So Philly right now is in the five spot. They keep their pick if it's in the top six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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He is based in Austin, Texas, where we saw each other after a depressing Spurs-Suns game with no Wemby and with the Suns team imploding. We have something really good that we're going to talk about later in the pod, this big picture idea that I'm excited to throw at the world. Short term, There's been some stuff going on as we hit these last 20 games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And they're doing everything that they scratch Paul George for reasons that remain unclear for the season and beads out. And Philly's going for it. And I think if they get the five spot, it'd be pretty hard for them to get jumped twice. So in a weird way, this could work out for our guy, Daryl Morey. You went to Sloan Conference in Boston. Weirdest Sloan Conference ever?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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That would be... Really good draft. If you get in the top five in this draft, you're getting like a legit dude.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And so they have to do this. How crazy would that be after all the hype and buzz about them if they ended up with like a top three pick? I mean, honestly, that'd be insane. What were the odds? I guess the odds were actually half decent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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The Embiid thing's tough. We've been down this road with injured older centers and you're just kind of held hostage by it for a couple of years. And then somebody will write this story. Embiid's knee feels the best it's ever been. And Embiid, full scrimmage today. And then he plays two games, he gets hurt again. And it's just this cycle you don't want to be in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Washington, Utah, Charlotte, New Orleans. The shocker in that group is New Orleans. We knew somebody in the West was going to have the year from hell, and they were a really good candidate. But for them to be in the top four of the lottery is nuts with the kind of talent they have. I mean, honestly, it's crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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So here are my OKC Celtics takes. And we might call my dad at the tail end because he went to the game after you go. But... First of all, OKC has beaten Boston twice and I watched both games and I thought they deserve to win both games. And I thought SJ was the best player in each game. There was no KP last night, but OKC didn't have Jalen Williams. So I'm not going to make excuses.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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The free throw advantage was way skewed toward OKC. I thought that was more a result of how both teams played and what they're trying to do. The Celtics took 63 threes, which is fucking absurd.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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But the thing that has jumped out to me over and over again with OKC, they play so fucking hard and they're so physical and they're so good defensively and the switching that they do and they're just so committed to a certain level of intensity and competitiveness. It's going to sound like I'm making an excuse for the Celtics and I'm not. I think I've watched it over and over again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And I talked about this with Russillo two Sundays ago, that there's always a team right around now that starts making a surge like Dallas did last year, like the Celtics did a couple of years ago. And it's like, who, who's the team? We talked about possibilities kind of glossed over Minnesota. And Minnesota kicked Denver's ass last night. The three-point shooting has gotten way better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I think teams have a lot of trouble going through an NBA schedule and then you play OKC and they're playing like they play. And it's like you can see it like the guys and then the quotes after the game. Tatum said it. Jalen Brown said it. We didn't do a good job of matching their intensity. This is why this OKC team has been so special as a regular season team. They're fucking animals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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You watch them. It's like every guy in the team is completely beasting out, going crazy. They're just like... And if you're not ready for it, you can see it. And you can fight back. You can claw back. They do it again. And they just over and over again make these teams look bad from how hard they're playing. So my question to you is... It's a one-night thing that works.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Could you get used to it over two weeks if you're playing them in a series? Over the course of seven games, would you eventually figure out how to match what they're doing, at least competitively and physically?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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It was nine free throws when the game was being decided. So they weren't good in line at all. But they got three at the end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, not only are we going to talk about basketball, I'm going to fix basketball next.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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They're 11-0 in the last 11 Randall games. Stuff's kind of happening, yet they're in the seventh seed. Golden State's 37-28. Minnesota's 38-29. Are you a believer yet? Easy schedule. Just a great matchup for them against Denver. Is something happening? What are you seeing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I was talking to, obviously, have a lot of Celtic fans in my life, some of whom don't watch a lot of OKC. And all the Celtic fans were so mad at SGA for like... the fucking foul baiting and all that stuff. And it's like, this is, he does this every game. He's the hardest guy in the league to guard like hands down. Uh, Russell and I talked about it the other day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2025.727

And when we're talking about the MVP stuff with him or Yoko, she's having one of the best guard seasons in the history of the league. And I haven't seen a team figure out completely how to guard him yet. It seems like part of the strategy is try to throw bigger guys on him like the Celtics did with Brown. You'd think on paper, with Derek White and Drew Holiday, perfect guys to go against him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2045.373

But he always gets the matchup he wants. He always gets the shot he wants. He's always either able to get to the rim, get a foul, or do a little pull-up. And I haven't seen anyone stop him yet. And if you're going to make the case for OKC to win the title. It's like they play harder than everybody else and nobody can stop their best guy. Seems like two pretty good things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2113.636

But don't low scorers do this, though? The reason I still think Brunson's the best flop foul baiter guy is he's also doing it off the ball. He's doing it when he's on defense. He's just flopping around like a marlin. SGA is just purely trying to get to the free throw line. He's like, whatever trick I can do to get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2160.43

My guy is back. Scoot Henderson. Marcelo and I are alive. I'm so excited. He was unbelievable. He looked like fucking 2010 Russell Westbrook yesterday. I was going nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2184.03

Listen, that game played the hits for things that are going to drive Celtic fans crazy. Tyler Ford as the ref. I think there's a lot of he-doesn't-like-us stuff. The free throw advantage spoke for itself. SGA is super frustrating. And then Jalen had his worst game in a couple of years, you know, and you can't survive no KP and a horrible Jalen game like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2208.687

If you're on positives for the Celts, Tatum was awesome again. I mean, I just feel like he's gone up. We're still, and I, we talked a couple of weeks ago about, I still feel like it's in play that he could make, go to that last level. Marcelo thought I was being a little too optimistic on it. I think he's at least going up a half level. And I think there's an intensity and competitiveness to that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2232.358

I just don't feel like was totally there. That physicality that is just at another level. They're also, Maz is putting a bunch of minutes on him, which I like and don't like, but like he played 45 against the Lakers and I think 42 last night and he wants to be out there. And I think that's the best thing the Celtics have going for them right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2314.83

Well, there's definitely hungrier candidates and hunger becomes such a big part of this as the season goes along. I it's funny, like I'll get texts from people sometimes or I'll hear it on a show or a podcast and We have to do this thing now about OKC's not getting enough credit. When will people start talking about OKC? First of all, I think people are talking about them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2336.92

And we did this on Sunday. I'm at the point with this where if you're not taking OKC and Cleveland seriously as the two best teams in the league that have the two best chances to win the title, I just feel like you're not watching the season. They're passing. Cleveland's had two 15 game winning streaks. I don't know what else they have to show us. That team is awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2361.62

And Mitchell is having a great year. And if like they play OKC in a series, he'll think he's as good as SGA. Like to me, they check all the boxes and OKC now that Chet's back. That was when we're talking to my dad, I think later. But my dad came away like he hadn't really seen a great check game in person.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2379.824

chet's been a fucking beast since he came back you know and i just think they can go small and big i think okc is awesome i think beating them in a series is going to be really really really hard especially with their good home team too they get a good crowd it's a weird place to play their fans are like really rabid they affect the game they affect the refs and uh I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2404.831

They're the favorite on FanDuel for a reason. They have the best team. And they have a guy who can score on every team in the league whenever he wants. That matters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2423.465

It hurts your head. That was my takeaway in the 2012 finals. I actually had a headache after the home games. I was like, this is too loud. My head hurts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2444.72

The Spurs were one of the... Dude, I wrote the... I wrote the Grantland piece after the Spurs killed... somebody about how this had a chance to be like a generational team. And I think, okay, see, swept them after I wrote the piece, like they just like destroyed them. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2466.194

Well, especially when you have, you're putting young and hungry guys in there. Yeah. And you know, look, you look at the game yesterday and you go back and watch the fourth quarter, which I did this morning, the Celts missed wide open shots. a bunch of them in the fourth quarter, whereas OKC actually made some shots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2482.908

And the big guy you have written behind you, I think because you want to remind yourself to talk about him, was Wallace. Wallace made the two dagger shots of the game. And Wallace was awesome. And Wallace is one of those guys, like I do the trade value list. I was like, where does this guy go? Because there's no way they're trading him. What's he worth? If somebody's like, yeah, we'll do this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

250.698

in march well what are you saying that's what's he doing differently because in the in the first part of the year it looked like a bad spacing fit it looked like a weird who's who should take the shot this time and it just it just seemed off so what changed i think he's playing he knows his teammates better and he's making better passes like at his best he's a scorer who can also pass and i think during this stretch i haven't looked it up i think he's leading the team in assists so yeah

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2504.299

We'll give you this awesome player. Give us back Wallace and some picks. Presti's going to go, no, thanks. You know what I mean? I'm actually going to keep Wallace. Thank you, though. Thanks for your interest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2534.023

By the way, 21 years old. Born on November 2003. Two years in, they have him at least for two more. you know, I SGA, I'm sure we'll work with them a tiny bit for salary stuff, but they're going to have to pay Chet and they're going to have to pay Wallace and they're going to have to play Jalen Williams on top of SGA. That's going to be really hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2600.886

Well, the other thing is, OKC has way better variables than the Celtics do. If you're telling me I'm getting everybody for four rounds with the Celtics, I feel great. But I have Horford, who's I think 39, who's still playing 28 minutes a game and they're still counting on him in a real way. I have Drew Holiday, who's 34, who's got a fucked up hand.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2623.832

I have Porzingis who I just have no idea when he's playing and when he's not playing at this point. And it's like a pleasure to see him, but I don't trust that he's going to be out there a hundred percent of the time. I have Pritchard who's hit or miss depending on the game and the matchup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2639.336

Whereas like I look at OKC and it's like, it would really have something weird would have to happen for any of those guys to get hurt. They're all young. They're all, you know, same thing for Cleveland. Yeah. It's a mostly young team that's, you know, you'd have like Darius Garland got hurt last year because he broke his jaw. Somebody hit him in the head.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2656.702

But I just think the durability and consistency of those young guys, when you combine the hunger piece of it, it's going to be a challenge for the Celtics. This is going to be a way different journey for them this year. Like even right now, they're 2-7. They'll play the Hawks. Let's say the Hawks are the seventh seed. They'll beat the Hawks. That's not going to be like the most fun series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2676.872

Like the Hawks are, you know, they're not going to roll over. Then they'll have the Knicks or Detroit in round two. That's not going to be easy. And then they play Cleveland or Milwaukee probably. And that's before we get to the finals. And I need all my guys to stay healthy the whole time. Like it's, it's just gonna be way harder.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2705.314

And they won last year, which you can't sleep on. Like it's so much harder to do it the second time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2716.223

So I watched the entire Knicks Portland game last night as my wife and I also watched Paradise. So I had it on the iPad, watched going back, kind of back. Paradise is the perfect show you can watch while you're also doing something else. The Knicks have had, they pulled out some of these, some of these late ones. And I kind of think they needed that game last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2737.908

I thought Bridges really needed it. Bridges was threatening and just become like this appendage. And I thought that was a really big game for them. Towns hit a couple of huge threes down the stretch in the fourth quarter. But I actually think these this Brunson injury, which you never want anybody to get hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2755.378

But I think it's a it's a weirdly OK thing for them because now they have to use this different muscle. I thought they were way too reliant on him. And now it's like, hey, guys, Mikael Bridges is a good offensive player. Maybe you should give him the ball every once in a while. Hey, Towns is a good matchup for the last two minutes of a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2773.768

So I think they're going to figure some things out about the supporting cast that's going to help him when he comes back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2790.239

I look at this constantly and they're the one outlier where you're like, why is this team there? It's because they have, you know...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2824.473

When they rebound, the rebounding is the other thing. They get second chances. They control the boards. They have size and they're nasty. It's like a nasty team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2842.068

I like that every guy in the Pistons is ready to get in a fight. Talked about it before, but I just, I love their attitude on everything. And by the way, they have a realistic chance to get the four seed. So we're taping this Thursday morning. Milwaukee's 36 and 28. Indiana's 36 and 28. Detroit's 37 and 29. Yes. And playing better net rating wise. Name a stat from the last 25 games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2866.507

I'm going to look it up right now as we're talking. Just last 25. This is nuts. I have all these bookmarks for the net ratings. And I have like 15, 25, and 20. Detroit, 69 in the last 25. And their sixth offensive rating. They have the second best D, as you mentioned. Like that's a, that's not a small sample size. 25 games is fucking, that's almost two, two months. It's like seven weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2905.381

Wow. It's beyond the breakout. Would you vote for him for most improved? Most improved.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2914.324

I'll give you them right now. Do you have a vote? I can't remember. No, I do not have a vote. I have a vote, so I'm not allowed to bet on this. I always want to mention that. Oh, there it is. Yeah. Oh, he's the favorite. Minus 270. Is Mobley in there? Dyson Daniels is plus 220. Mobley is 100 to 1. Now, I will get... The crazy one is Pritchard as the favorite for six man at minus 240.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2935.807

Malik Beasley's plus 300, which tells me nobody's watching the Pistons. Cause I would have thought Beasley should be the favorite at this point with how important he is. And he's like their, you know, their number two crunch time guy. And I tied Jerome is down to 25 to one. It used to be 55 to one. I think he's in there too. And then I guess Nas at 25 to one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2954.921

I, I don't really think of him as a bench guy because it feels like he starts so much and there's always somebody hurt, but. He's in there too. Who would you have? Would you go Beasley?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2981.411

Well, you know what? The thing with Beasley that I noticed at the end of games when they're coming out of timeouts and the other team knows they're probably going to run a play with him coming around on a three. And they're like treating him like he's Clay Thompson, 2016. This is not, this is now like, Oh, this is a nice story. We've we're well beyond that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

2998.12

Teams are treating him like he's a real guy. Cause he's been a real guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3023.281

There's just no good stats with Milwaukee. Like, last 25, they're 12th. Right? Mm-hmm. Last 20... their 16th. And then you go, if we do, yeah, well, last 15, same thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3054.674

Oh, nine. That's not bad for last 15. So there's signs of life, I guess. Um, but last, but Detroit's played better for them for seven weeks is I guess the, uh, the big point. Um, Let's take one more break and then let's do our thing. I'm really excited for this. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3071.239

So when I was in Austin, Texas last month for a live show, we went to your sports business class at the University of Texas in Austin, had a bunch of really smart people who had been working for a while on a big project. So you explain what the project was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Especially the live betting and the, yeah, all that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3171.992

So right now the season is 82 games. It starts on October 22nd this year. It ended on April 13th. It's 24 weeks, 82 games. The play-in is the mid-April. First three rounds of the playoffs this year starts April 19th, ends June 2nd. So it's seven plus weeks for those three rounds. And the final starts June 5th and ends June 22nd. And your students decided what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3255.712

So two things with that. They're launching the season October 22nd. They're going against the World Series. They're going against the NFL season has really kicked into gear. All the teams are starting to play better. It's like the height of college football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3273.763

Oh, yeah. Every four years, a presidential election is coming. And they're just popping right in the middle of that. And people are like, cool, thanks. The way they have it structured now, they're basically going against the NFL for the first 11 weeks of the NBA season. So it's like 45% of the season. They're just going head to head against the NFL. Now the playoffs, there's less games eventually.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3297.062

They have the, I talked about how stupid this was a couple weeks ago. NFL ends, Super Bowl ends. The NBA's already done their trade deadline, so they lose that whole bump from whenever that happens. And then they go right to the all-star break. And what happens during the all-star break? There's no basketball and everybody's complaining about how bad all-star weekend is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3314.837

So that's, that's your first arrival. And then what always happens is we hit the end of February and there's good basketball games and people are like, whoa, the NBA has got really good. It's like, no, the NBA was really good. Actually. You just, you, you were concentrated on the football. So I was like in 45 days seemed like a lot to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3333.959

And I did all these different, I sketched it out a bunch of different ways. And I think 45 days is around the right number. So the first thing I did was 42. So if you move everything 42 days, that's six weeks, right? That starts the season on December 3rd, the week after Thanksgiving. At least that's what would have happened this year. You start December 3rd, 24 weeks, ends May 25th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

335.646

Yeah, it's interesting because in this run, they're 16-9 in their last 25, basically. I think 16-8 last 24. So the record's better. The schedule's been pretty easy, but they did go 2-1 against OKC and they beat Denver twice, which I think are good signs, especially now that the Lakers don't have a center. Maybe those are the two teams they have to look at. I was studying it today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3362.284

Play in May 27th to May 30th. First three rounds, May 31st ends July 21st. And then the finals go July 24th ends August 10th. That seems too late to me. I love second. To me, the goal should be, how do we get away from football as much as possible? How do we take advantage of all of June instead of having the finals end on like June 18th, June 19th? Why are we throwing away June?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3392.041

And then could July really work for us? And I think we both agree it could. And your students, I mean, talk about the case they made for July.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3437.989

Yeah, I don't think this shit matters anymore. The whole model of, like... TV goes from September to May and we have three networks and we release stuff and we have sweeps and like it's fucking out. Shows can hit any time of the year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3501.1

Well, so there's two big things. One, the number of weeks you could just get away from football is just 100% positive. That's it. Like you're not equal to football. You're not going to be. It's a way bigger audience. You don't have the gambling fantasy stuff that football has. You don't have the ability for everybody to mobilize around Sundays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3520.45

And football is getting better and better at doing their own schedule. They're better at, oh, here's a Friday game. Oh, now we're going to have two Christmas games. Oh, now we're going to tackle Saturdays. Like football is just going to get better and better at killing the NBA during these first two months. So the more you can get away from that, the better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3538.777

And then I just feel like for the NBA, April, May, June, July should be the peak months and all of July. So one of the things I was looking at If you moved everything 42 days, but you had a 76 game regular season. So everybody loses three home games, three away games. Sorry, you guys just signed a $76 billion deal. You'll be fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3560.744

That would start the season on December 3rd, but ended on May 11th, 22 weeks, 76 games. Play in May 13th to May 16th. First three rounds, May 17th to July 7th. Now we're talking. Finals, July 10th to July 27th. And now all we've done is we've targeted basically post-NFL draft our three best months of the season we don't have to worry about the NFL at all. It's out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3591.883

And the only thing we'd have to worry about is like the freaking Olympics. But I don't think the NBA players should send our guys to the Olympics anyway. So we're fine. Um, with that. So I've asked NBA people about this in the past and they said the biggest reason they wouldn't move it is because of the summer schedule, because we need our summers. It's the two months off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

360.197

I test wise, I didn't really notice it until the last week. Um, just that they seem happier playing together. I thought last night they looked like last year's Timberwolves was, was noticeable. They might feel like they have Denver's number, but looking at all the numbers, um, The three-point shooting is way better, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3611.91

Our kids are home from school, whatever. Counter. You'd still have August. During July, you're working anyway with the Vegas Summer League. That's become like almost a two-week event. I would get rid of Vegas Summer League completely and use that so that we're done July 27th. The draft is July 31st. Tone down Summer League. Don't make it this huge thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3639.381

And then you basically get August and September and half of October off before we get the preseason. That makes way more sense to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3730.869

Yeah, if you're being smart about this, everything moving later also means the trade deadline is after the NFL season. Your all-star break, an all-star game, if you have one, now that's moving to mid-March, maybe even during March Madness. Maybe you just don't have an all-star game anymore and you just have all-star break is March Madness. I still love Chris Ryan's idea of having

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3756.917

all-star break actually just be bi-weeks with 10 team bi-weeks, three weeks in a row, or each set of 10 teams gets one week off. And I would get rid of the all-star game. I don't think it works that they want to have some sort of big corporate event, make that the NBA cup whenever you have that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3774.41

But the big thing to me that we know we're right is because some of the stuff that they're already doing, is a reaction to the fact that football is just killing them, right? Yeah. Moving the TNT Barkley show from Thursdays to Tuesdays during the NFL season is a direct concession that you're getting destroyed on Thursday nights. Right. Just period.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

378.883

So Nas in his last 25, he's 41% from three and he's 18 and seven and he's having a really nice free agent run. We talked about him on the Worst Contracts pod talking about how all these moves they've made, especially the Gobert extension, might have screwed them to keep Nas. And then Timberwolves fans are like, we're keeping Nas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3796.983

Doing this NBA Cup thing is a direct concession that nobody gives a shit about the NBA in late October, November, and December. And you need to do something to be like, hey, we're over here. They just need to move it. And here's the other thing, Kurt Goldsberry. We know expansion's coming, 32 teams. If there's ever a time to go to a 69-game schedule, it's when they do these expansion teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3819.899

Because 32 games, you play the other 31 teams twice. You have four 18 divisions. So you play everybody twice and you play everyone in your division one more time and it's 69 games total. All right, so let's start the season December 10th. Let's end it May 4th. Let's play a 20 week season. Let's start the play in May 6th and May 9th. Let's play the first three rounds, May 10th to June 30th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And let's start the finals July 3rd and on July 20th with a 69 game schedule. There's no fucking way you can tell me that's not going to be better for the NBA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3883.639

addition to the calendar uh and i think you're right i think we could survive in july i don't know about summer league in august that's that's a tricky part there will be people who are annoyed you just have it for the don't make it as big of a thing as it was and just make it like i thought the if you're going to do a counter on this the hardest thing to figure out is the college season ends kids graduate but you wouldn't be able to have the draft until july and end of july

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

39.85

We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Please check out the Prestige TV podcast. We are doing double episodes. Every week about White Lotus. I'm on one of them on Sunday nights, the recap pod. And then Joanna and Rob midweek doing that as well. Plus we're covering Severance. I think it's the final week of that too. New rewatchables coming on Monday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3909.136

So none of those kids would know where they're playing, who they're working out for, for an extra six weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3917.021

Maybe you have the draft between the regular season and playoffs. I don't know. But that's the only part I couldn't figure out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3934.818

I think that's fine. Right. Those kids are all working out on themselves. All right. Screw the rookies. So just I'm going to go through this one more time. 69 game regular season once we have 32 teams starts December 10th, ends May 4th. We could even say we'll give everyone next week. We'll start May 11th. But let's say May 4th. The playoffs are done first three rounds on June 30th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3957.895

Finals goes July 3rd, right before July 4th, which would be cool through July 20th. And we're done on July 20th. So we basically, if you shorten the season and then move it and it's a month longer, and now I'm concentrating all my best stuff in May, June, July, that's how you win. And this is how they have to think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

3976.955

And if they don't start thinking this way, I'm going to really start thinking that they need the leadership at the top. I know they got this giant media deal, but these are easy fixes that they should do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And it's like, well, you made this Carl Anthony Towns trade to save money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

403.922

Which leads me to believe you're not keeping Nas, especially if you have this new ownership. But who knows? He's playing 33 minutes a game and he's been great. Conley in his last 17 is shooting 48% from three. And he looked like dead legs washed up the first six weeks of the season, right? That surprised me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4071.411

Well, one of the cool things that your students did, I mean, there's all this anecdotal evidence we have anyway that football is just destroying everyone else and that it's an absolute monster. But then the college football piece, not just NFL, where college football really crests from the end of August Mid-November, probably. And then we start getting it. So it's probably mid-November range.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4092.738

So you're going against two monoliths every weekend, right? I just don't know why you would do that if you don't have to. The only thing, my big takeaway is, and I didn't really think about it until I was in your class, It makes zero sense to start on October 22nd, October 23rd, anywhere in October. It's fucking stupid. They shouldn't do it anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4113.531

And if they want to move it to mid-November, even that makes more sense. But first week of December makes the most sense. And they just have to start thinking that way. And I really think if you're just trying to get basketball NBA nirvana for how a season should go, it should be 69 games. It should start in December and it should end in July. And they're going to win if they do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4185.17

Hey, I have a question. How much fucking revenue do you need? we're going to have guys making $75 billion a year. Like how much is, how much is enough? You just signed a $76 billion deal. Like do what's best for the sport, try to grow the sport. And this is the best way to do it. You mentioned the alternative league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4203.513

So it's, it's being pushed by Maverick Carter, who's LeBron, one of his business guys. And when I heard about it, I just thought it was bullshit because I didn't think it was real because initially everyone thought those guys were getting the Vegas team. And then I think it's wide open. I don't think they have any inside track at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

422.992

more than anything I didn't think they were going to get anything out of him anymore and it seemed like he wasn't going to be able to play a crunch time for them and then DiVincenzo is the other one since Christmas he's missed some games but 16 points a game 47% from three and he's playing 29 minutes a game so you say how they don't have a second score and you're right but they've been able to patch it like Nas will have a big game

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4225.087

And in fact, there's other groups that I would bet on before them. And I thought this was a ploy by them to pretend they're doing raising Saudi money and blah, blah, blah. And ultimately, all right, we'll drop it if we get the Vegas team. That's not the case. They have got a shitload of money for this and a plan. And everything I've heard, is that it's kind of real.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4245.847

I don't know if they have all the money yet, but they have enough that could you form a six-team league and convince five, six, seven stars to basically jump when their contracts... I think the contracts would have to be over, but I look at Luka. He's down in 26. Like that's somebody like, all right, if he's, could this be a live situation? What does he carry? Does that mean loyalty to the NBA?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4268.278

He just got traded. So like, could you pay, could you build a league and have like six, seven Luca type guys? Hey, Luca, here's a hundred million dollars a year. You're playing a 35 game season and, uh, and you're going to be the face of one of the faces of this league. Like, I think it's real. And I think the NBA owners are a little more worried about it than I think has been reported so far.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4331.969

And it's also that we're in a world right now where rich people throw money at sports stuff. It's just a fact. We're in a world now where the Saudis and everybody on that side of the world is pumping incredible amounts of money into UFC and the WWE and boxing. They've completely transformed boxing. To think that they couldn't decide to just do that with basketball is nuts. It's not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4394.201

You mentioned that it's a global game. They also have players that I think unlike with some of the golfers, You have players that have huge social media footprints. that if they switched leagues or went or did something else, they'd actually be able to promote themselves, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4409.812

And it's like, I remember when, uh, when my contract was almost up with ESPN and it seemed like people thought I was going to leave and they were writing about it. It's like, well, you can't leave ESPN, can't leave the machine. It's like, guess what? And then all of these people over the next 10 years, including myself, were able to leave and start stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4426.881

And it's like, you don't need the fucking machine. I don't think the basketball players need the machine. I think if they were part of another league, I think I think people would pay attention to it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

445.011

Dante have a big game. Randall might have like, it feels like they're all rotating. Who's the second guy. Um, and they're pretty good. I'm surprised Dillingham isn't having a bigger impact for them, but maybe they don't need them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4460.931

Jason Gallagher's kid. Just repeated mentions on the pod. You're right, though. They're just going to follow. They'll follow him there. And guess what? They'll probably follow him, too, when he's playing for the Singapore Giants. That's what soccer's taught us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4485.472

Well, I'll tell you this. The NBA has to start taking all this shit seriously. They're throwing away the first two months of the season every year. The season's too long. Nobody likes it. The players don't like it. There's all these solutions that they're unwilling to explore. They're going to add two teams and somehow keep an 82 game schedule, which is fucking stupid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4503.473

And they have all this money that they already got. that allows them now the luxury to rethink this whole system. And that's how they should be thinking. And if they're not thinking that way, they need new people to run the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4547.773

Well, you'd also have a situation like Philly is now punted on their season. You don't have to watch the zombie Sixers for the next two months, not give a shit. Like, all right, we're, we're out way sooner, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4583.032

and try to get better at stuff. And that this is going to require real vision. And it's not just like, we've come up with the NBA cup. We've added a new event to all-star weekend on Saturday. It's like, we're not talking about that. Like you have a chance to actually fix it. All right. Kurt Goldsberry was fun to sit in your class. Shout out to your students. That was a great presentation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4605.467

All right, my dad is here complaining to me all during the OKC Celtic game. It's been a tumultuous year for him. He just adopted a new puppy. Lost, sadly lost Sally a couple months ago. You thought you were going to be a one dog family. And then all of a sudden you're telling me you're getting a puppy. Ruby is the name.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4625.82

And now you're up with a puppy that's peeing on pads and scratching and biting you. And was it worth it? I guess is my question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4668.128

All right, good, congratulations. So you went to the Celtic game last night and you hadn't seen this version of OKC in person. What was your in-person takeaway of the Thunder?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4760.423

I should mention my dad's not a Tyler Ford guy. Not at all. If you see Tyler Ford doing a Celtic game, just know my dad's upset immediately.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4790.18

Yeah. See all the Celtic fans were saying this, but we shot 63 threes. So at that point, you're probably not going to get a shitload of free throws. You know, I, you weren't going to the basket enough. I also think Kirk and I talked about the game a little bit, but I left some stuff for you. I thought Dort was like the worst possible guy to guard Jalen. I thought Jalen could not solve him at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4811.875

He's just strong. He's smaller and he just couldn't figure him out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4863.017

How many guards have you seen in person that were better than SGA? Oh, I mean, Jordan, obviously. Yeah. Would you, would you put him on like the, like second highest level, highest level? Like he's unstoppable. Um, and we were throwing everybody at him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4919.319

Oh, yeah. I don't know if you got a vote this year, but I'm going to pass it along anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4927.561

No, you don't get a vote. The SGA, the inability for us to control him reminded me of Andrew Toney a million years ago. I was thinking of some of the other, because I remember we went to that finals game in 08. when they beat the Lakers that year. But Kobe, there was that game too when the Lakers started coming back. And Kobe all of a sudden was unstoppable for like two minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

493.522

I'm sorry he's going to be on New Orleans next year, but you guys are right. Or Washington, wherever he's going to go. Somebody with calf space. Brooklyn? Who knows? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

4951.856

And there's the crowd, you can feel the energy kind of die because you're going, oh my God, what do we do? SGA is a little bit like that. Like I was thinking about a series against him And you'd think like with Holiday and Derek White and then some size with Brown and Tatum, this is the right kind of team to stop him. But I'm not sure anyone's stopping him this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5013.548

Yeah, but the problem is, and you and I talk about this constantly, Porzingis has hit the point where It's exciting to have him. You notice when he's in the game and he just hasn't played enough and there's this reason, that reason, another reason. And now I'm at the point where you think about having to get through the Knicks and Cleveland and OKC potentially.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5034.839

I don't think they can win all three of those rounds without Porzingis. And I have no idea if he's going to be available.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5062.508

Right. I don't get it. You've gone to a lot of these games. What's up with the, why aren't they better at home this year? What is it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5125.043

I mean, the thing is, if I showed you, if you didn't even watch the game and I just showed you the stat sheet and it was like, we shot 63 threes and 12 free throws, we lost. That's a guaranteed loss.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5157.483

Can you give us your, your Tatum? You've watched every season of Tatum's career you've been going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5163.725

I feel like he's gone up half a level. I thought he was awesome in the Laker game. I thought he was really good last night. It certainly wasn't the reason they lost. And in general feels like he's gone up a notch. So what are you seeing in person?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5211.768

I like when he goes to the basket, but then pulls up and takes that 15-footer. I feel like that's unstoppable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5261.424

Yeah, I didn't enjoy watching it on TV. I mean, the biggest thing that shifted this year is we left last season, Tatum and Brown were kind of 1A, 1B. Yeah. And Tatum has really... Jalen has had some good stretches and some bad stretches, but Tatum... the amount of stuff that he's doing game to game on both sides is he's also the best rebounder on the team. He defends everybody on the other team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5286.349

He runs the offense. I think he's having an awesome season. Like to me, he's clearly the number three MVP and there's, there's some Giannis people are like, well, Giannis is 30 and 12 and six, but I just think the Celtics are more successful and Tatum has as big of a burden. And he's also running the offense. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5348.852

Yeah, I agree. I agree. That's why I don't think Pritchard, he's favored to win six man, but I've just seen too many games where I don't think he's impactful enough. Whereas like Cleveland, that Ty Jerome will come in and he'll just swing the game when he comes in. There's games where Pritchard doesn't do that. But I also think the amount of money they're paying for

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5368.519

the top six guys in this team, it's really hard to have a bench. You know, like it's just, it's just hard to find that ninth, 10th, 11th guy when you're shelling out the amount of money that they're paying. So it makes sense. But I agree. I thought OKC just seemed so much deeper last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5406.737

By the way, we did that to the Lakers on Saturday. That was one of the big reasons they were making Luka and LeBron really work just to bring the ball up, which I don't understand why more teams don't do against them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

544.317

Sounds like he's won you over. It sounds like the Randall fan club might have to make room for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5453.404

So would you have us, you've said you saw a Boston Cleveland game in person too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5503.411

What's the Patriots fever right now with the free agents and the number four pick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5533.11

Yeah. It's tough. It's tough when the case for somebody is he has two arms, two legs and a head and he plays left tackle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5549.5

I think it's a wrap. There's some bad stats with him about getting open year by year the last five years, where last year he just doesn't get open anymore. We don't need another guy who can't get open. We already have five guys who can't get open. Here's where I've talked myself into.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5568.172

Um, well, first of all, I'm, I'm, I'm praying the giants take Sanders cause they don't have a quarterback and it seems like Rogers might go to Pittsburgh and they haven't done anything else. So it's like, please take Sanders. I'm, I am all in. I'm planting my flag in this cause they don't need a Graham cause they beefed up the defensive line. I'm all in on Travis Hunter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5588.519

I'm all in on taking him at receiver at four. And then maybe in the dime packages, he comes in and play some D back, but just can, can you turn him into a top five receiver? I think you could. That's your number one receiver. You also have the flexibility. Maybe he can play on the other side of the ball a little bit. It's just like, he's, it just seems like he's a short thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5610.214

I want a sure thing at the number four. I want like a blue chipper who would be a $35 million player a year someday. That's what I want.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5640.415

I do love the Drake May-Hunter idea. It would be super fun. But I think this has been a really fun draft to follow, especially like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5647.441

we just need two teams to take a quarterback ahead of us and then it shoves the guys down and you're just watching the giants not get anyone not make the stafford trade not get a free agent i'm feeling i'm feeling optimistic that you know what happens in these drafts teams get really anxious i don't have a quarterback

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5680.889

I can't wait. It's going to be the most exciting draft we've had in a while because to pick this high and potentially have it work out. Marshan, can we talk Marshan for a second?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5709.464

That was the worst part for me was Florida just, come on. Out of all the teams, that's who you're going to trade them to?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5737.432

And he's a legend. He's going to retire as a Hall of Famer, all that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

574.778

Well... They also have this weird bench because Shannon had a couple of really good games for them. Like when they beat OKC by three last month, end of February, Shannon played 29 minutes in that game. Alexander Walker played 35. McDaniels played 42. Nas played 40. They didn't have Gobert.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5745.078

But it's the Danny Ainge thing, right? Where Danny Ainge used to say, if I was running the Celtics in the late 80s, I would have traded Bird and McHale and started over. You can't be loyal to the memories. He traded Kevin Garnett in 2013. It's like the best thing for the team is to make the move. But I don't know. You get like a late pick in the first round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5763.123

It's not like this is making or breaking your future.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5767.765

It's a conditional second that can turn into a first. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5785.984

All right. I know he took this one hard. He did take this one hard. Uh, there's nobody left. I mean, who's like, who's going to be the, well, pastor next to your number one Jersey in the stands now, but other than that, nobody left from 2000, early 2010s, that whole run. Right. No, the,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5831.172

Well, it's a whole generation now that they won the cup the month I started Grantland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5838.396

That's a million years ago. You have like 20-year-old kids now that barely remember it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5847.801

Right. That's how, yeah, I forgot. That's how you measure dog years or living dogs. Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Uh, cause they have that. And then the other thing is the Celtics sale that somebody today, did you see it? There's four left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5863.894

And the bids are, the final bids are coming in Friday. There was five and Lori dropped out. The Eagles owner, I think pretty soon after the Super Bowl was out, they thought there was going to be five.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5890.909

So that's one of the things about, well, one of the things is nobody knows the composition of all the groups. So you have all these minority partners who are going to throw money, but nobody knows what side they picked with the four left and who's on whose team. So it's, it's a lot of, but tying to the Bruins, I think part of the play would be you'd build a new arena

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5913.36

And so you're paying for the team, but then you also know, like in the 2030s, there's going to be some sort of basketball arena that you build that's like what the Clippers did. So it's really, you're like 10 billion all in. So you need like capital behind that. But for the Bruins, it's not great because they're going to be stuck in this other building. They'll be the only tenant in seven years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

5933.973

And then the team hasn't been, you know, it's definitely arrow pointing down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Isn't that crazy? Remember driving by the garden and just seeing the carcass of half of a stadium for that whole winter in 94?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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They didn't have Randall, but they, they're able to, the nine through 11 guys, which is something I think Cleveland has. Yeah. I think the Celtics have to some degree. And OKC has 20 guys. It literally doesn't matter on OKC. They could be like, oh, Jalen Williams isn't playing. Fine. We got three more guys. We could just slot in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. No, I think the Lakers are in the same boat. The Staples was built, I think, in like 99 or 2000. It's quote unquote state of the art, but it's really not. It sucks. And now they're in this, what do you do? And you have the Clippers who have this incredible arena. So I know that's going to be a piece of the Celtics purchase. You have to think arena.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I mean- There's one part. If you go back and you read, remember when we were going to have the Olympics in Boston before it got shut down? They had a whole plan for where it was going to be. And one of the big locations was going to be on 93 past where Emerson is going toward Quincy and the Cape. And there's this whole section. Yeah. And I think that's where the arena would go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I think that's the location. And I think it's open. So whatever, it'll definitely, something's definitely going to happen over the next 10 years. But the big thing for me with the Celtics sale is like, Pag Luca is one of the four guys left. He's the number two owner right now. He's the one that if he gets it, you have the stability, you keep the organization intact. If the other three guys...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Any of those guys get it. Who knows? They just come in like, here are my ideas. I'm bringing in my own guys. And you could have just complete dysfunction.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Well, they all want to do their one thing, and then you end up in the Luka Doncic situation where you have the new Dallas owners. They're like, yeah, let's trade them. We get Anthony Davis and a pick, Max Christie. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. I think like some of it will depend on what happens in the playoffs, but yeah, I'm, I'm prepared as a fan. I'm prepared. And you are too. Like, I don't know what's going to happen. You're going to have this new owner group paying six plus billion dollars, uh, the team, let's say they don't win the title. And then they're looking at a tax bill of $200 million on top of what they just paid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I'm just going to tell you what it is right now. Days of Thunder with Tom Cruise. It's officially sports movie month. Tom Cruise, 16th rewatchables movie for him. Congrats to him. just setting all kinds of records. Great guy. Uh, so you got that coming up. You can watch that on the ringer movies, YouTube channel, or you can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And it's like, all right, first move. I've decided to do this. God only knows what that's going to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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But I do like their depth and they have a little more depth, Minnesota, than I was thinking. It also seems like they're getting a little more than McDaniels was starting to look like a possible worst contracts guy. But he got going too. And then, you know, the big thing for me when you're thinking about the late surgers is do you have like one of the best nine guys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, I might have some extra. So they jacked it like 10%?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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So now it's like, what is it now? Like $400 a ticket? No, not that high. Is it up there? We can talk after. Jesus. They flex the tickets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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If Philly comes in again, they could probably tank those tickets and knock them down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. It's funny, like, when you had... We used to go to the games in the 70s, and it was all blue-collar. All, like, just... the most normal people possible. And then the eighties, we just started watching them go away one at a time. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And I remember the guy, the guy with the hat, with the mustache, like that guy who's, and all of a sudden he was gone and just, and it just, and then by the time we got to the fleet center, it was just completely different.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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But you're like, I think you're like in the top six of longest runs now or top five. Yeah, I should be. I think. Should honor you at halftime or something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

6283.44

Right, right, right. It sounded like it should be straight through.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Right. We had that in the episode two of Celtic City. They mentioned how the Lakers trying to win their first title in Los Angeles. And, you know, they're not counting the Minnesota titles at all. And then in the 80s, all of a sudden they're like, yeah, and those five titles we won in Minnesota. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I'm sure if OKC wins the title this year, they're not going to be like, it's our second title following the one we won in Seattle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

633.98

Do you have one of the best eight guys? Do you have one of the best six guys? Edwards is somewhere in the 10. You know, you could have him, you could have him eight, you could have nine, wherever. But during this little 24 game stretch where they're 16 and eight, he's 29 a game, 8.9 free throw attempts and 10.4 threes. And I mentioned that because I felt like the threes were too high before.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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I'll tell you, the Luka thing is maddening because they love Luka. And the energy at the home games is completely different already. And this is like LeBron, like obviously one of the most popular NBA players of this century and one of the most famous and one of the best. But he's been on all these other teams and...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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it's always year to year with him and he's a Laker, but it's, it's a little more of a hired gun. They look at Luca and they're like, this guy's 25. Like this guy might be in our life for the next 15 years. Like you can just feel the energy shift.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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No, that's it. That's the door gets slammed. That's not happening. Don't worry. Don't ever worry about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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All right. Good to see you. Congrats on your dramatic debut in episode three, Celtic city.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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All right. All right. Good to see you. Thanks. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kirk and my dad. Thanks to Kyle and Sarita and Gahal as well. Don't forget new rewatchables coming Monday, prestige TV, Sunday night, white Lotus recap, and you can get all this as video podcast on Spotify, which is what you should do. I will see you on Sunday with Priscilla. Have a great weekend.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And I want, I, I ultimately like in the playoffs, I think the free throws have to be next to the threes. I want like in a playoff series, I want 10 and 10 from him, something like that. But, um, you know, he has some stinkers every once in a while. He'll have like the six for 19. He'll have the seven for 29.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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But for the most part, like I'm kind of happy where he's at in this season after the season, where are you at with him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Just like you can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify. Uh, we're also brought to you by fan dual sports book, where I hope you're checking out the 30 on 30, which we do every Friday. I tweet out my pick, try to get 30 plus score, a little boost. So stay tuned for that. All right, coming up.

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Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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It's a great point. OKC, 68 in their last 24, including four losses of either one or two points. Fifth net rating. And they play OKC really well too, which we should mention. Denver, they're built to beat Denver. And they have all these athletic wings to throw at Murray. And they have size to throw. Not as much size as they had last year with Towns.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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But they still have a bunch of size to throw at Jokic. And it's just a good matchup for them. Doesn't mean they'll beat them in the playoffs, but it's a nice matchup. OKC was interesting because when they played those games, and I thought those games were really fun to watch. There was a competitiveness, fuck you, athleticism piece that you rarely... Physicality, you saw it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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We're going to talk about OKC Boston in a second. OKC, even though I think the myth on them is they're undersized when they're really not anymore, or they're skinny... they're really physical. And I thought, I think Minnesota likes it and they like playing it. And I thought those games, I thought that was a good sign for them that they hung with them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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They also have a lot of guys to throw at SGA who nobody has shut down all year, but they probably have the best chance. And they have a guy on their team who's not afraid of any of them. You mentioned the matchups. So we're taping this in the morning on Thursday and Golden State and Minnesota are basically fighting for the sixth seed. Golden State has 37 wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Minnesota has 38, but Minnesota's played more games. And there's a world where Minnesota gets six and Denver gets three. And that's our 3-6. And Denver's like, fucking A. God damn it. Why is that our team? Just the matchups in general, like, Golden State, I'm sure, doesn't want to see Denver at all because Yoka Jones them. Minnesota would be delighted to see Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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You just go through and it's like what you said. It becomes a little rock, paper, scissory. I was waiting for Houston to drop out But Houston's kind of hung on here. Houston still has a three-loss lead over Golden State and a four-loss lead over Minnesota, and they're the five seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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And then the Lakers, who we don't know how long LeBron's going to be out, that's another team that could potentially drop, but they'd have to drop a lot down the stretch. So a lot of shit going on, but we could end up, listen to this, Goldsberry, we could have Minnesota-Denver as a 3-6. We could have Golden State-Memphis as a 2-7. And we could have Lakers-Houston as the 4-5 with M.A.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Adoka and Dylan Brooks against LeBron. The two guys who have really gone at him in the last two years. That'd be super fun. And then the other one that's in play is the 1-8 with OKC and the Clippers. You know, the Clippers trade SGA to OKC. OKC has their pick this year, and there's just all this history between those teams. So that would be the most fun version, I think, of the four matchups.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Minnesota’s Coming, OKC’s Here, and We Can Save the NBA Season With Kirk Goldsberry and Bill’s Dad

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Kirk Goldsberry and I are going to talk about some things we've noticed as we head into the home stretch of the NBA season. And then more importantly, Kirk's class did this big study of how to fix the NBA season. And we're going to dive into that. And it's really cool. And I urge you to continue to listen through the pod until we get to that part.

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The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't foul out on your chance to win with America's number one sports book. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Plus enjoy our new NBA player prop pages, your one-stop shop for player props that include FanDuel's exclusive performance trends.

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The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Yeah. And then it would be Cleveland against somebody crappy. Before we get to where it's, and I'm sorry, I may be a tangent, but am I the only one who thinks Cleveland is clearly the favorite right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I thought the Philly Super Bowl really fucked me up, Paz.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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You were in New Orleans eating fried oysters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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No, I've had a lot of regrets and I've spent a lot of time thinking about what went wrong with my Super Bowl pick because my instincts are telling me Philly. I've talked about this. But I do wonder sometimes if hunger is the most underrated thing noun in sports. And that's what worries me about Cleveland versus Boston. As Boston plays hard, Tatum plays hard every night, the team gives a shit.

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The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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You hit that, you get 30% on top of what you win. Be sure to claim the PBT, place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel website. Sportsbook app. So I think this is the fifth year we've done it. Me and Big Waz and House, we draft the worst contracts in the league. It sounds like a negative podcast. It's actually very positive because we have a lot of laughs.

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The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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But Cleveland hasn't been there before. And every guy in that team, when they play the Celtics, it will be the most important two weeks of their life. And the Celtics can't say the same. And there's that little edge of like game seven at home, Donovan Mitchell, with like, holy shit, I could actually make the finals. This is my moment right now. The Celtics had that last year.

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The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Going back to back is really hard. The history of the NBA is like, this is the single hardest thing you can do in the NBA is win the second time in a row. And that's what worries me that the health, What am I getting from Porzingis? What am I getting from holiday? And then this Cleveland team that just can play everybody 30 minutes a game or less. They have incredible depth. They have a bench.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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They have a huge lead. They're going to play somebody absolutely shitty in round one, right? Like truly shitty. Whoever that eight, nine, that is going to be a shit team. They're going to get a sweep in that. And they're just going to be fresh. In round two. And that, you know, that's a real thing. So those are my concerns. Who would be the fourth seed in the East? I'm blanking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I mean, Milwaukee's playing better than Indiana.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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They had a tough loss last night. Why is this guy Schroeder has been really good on the Pistons? That was a sneaky trade. I don't know why Miami didn't want him, especially when Terry Rozier has died, as we're going to cover in the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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They played him. He came off the bench yesterday. Harden went nuts yesterday. And Schroeder kind of took him in the fourth quarter and was just doing a whole bunch of German Schroeder things on him and just defending him full court and annoying him. And Harden was getting madder and madder. I think that Detroit team, that Detroit Knicks series is going to be an absolute bitch for the Knicks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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And I can't wait because they are going to be trying to get in the fights. try, you know, shoving matches, get chippy. They're going to try to work on towns. They're going to try to hit Brunson. They have wise. Where do we, so I talked about the Sunday, Ron Holland, who's I think averaging an altercation every 10 minutes. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Yeah, I agree. I like how feisty they are. Feisty team. OK. We're going to we're going to take a break and then we're going to do the worst contracts draft. House, are you playing FanDuel 30 on 30?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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We have a great time talking about it. We're going to talk Warriors, Lakers at the top with House and Waz and then dive into the worst contracts of 2025 in the NBA. This is always a blast. Can't wait. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we've been doing it every year since 1977. The worst NBA contracts draft. One of my favorite times of the year.

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1333.557

Because you can cash in on betting with FanDuel America's number one sports book. Every Friday night, the ringer, we came up with this idea with them. 30% profit boost if you pick a player to score more than 30 points. And what's really fun is you can look at the matchups like we got tomorrow. You can look at like Phoenix, Denver and be like, oh, Joker's going off. That feels like a 30-pointer.

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Just grab his 30 on 30 and you're ready to go. FanDuel, the home for all your favorite prop bets, whether you want to ride with my picks, because I'll be making picks on Friday on Twitter, or make your own. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduels.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday night. Make every moment more with FanDuel.

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You must be 21 plus presidents. Like states are 18 plus president in DC where Joe House is. Peter Schrager giving DC a lot of love recently. on this podcast. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-returnable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration, max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fender.com. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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Available on DoorDash, by the way. Enjoy responsibly 2025 Anheuser-Busch Michelob Ultra light beer, St. Louis, Missouri must be 21 plus to order alcohol, alcohol available only in select markets. All right, it's time. The worst contracts draft. I think this is our fifth one. It's either four or five might be the fifth one. And the rules are as follows. We go, we go in a not snake fashion.

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The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

1450.056

We just go in a circle. Um, I'll read the, you have to say the contract or I'll say it after you pick the guy. And the thing is, it's almost like reverse NBA trade value. The worst contract in the league, the one you wouldn't want the most, the most untradeable contract, the one that if you were a fan of the team, you'd be like, oh my God. And there's one clear winner this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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We'll see if it goes. House, did you want the first pick or you didn't? Because we have one wrinkle this year. Coaches and GMs are now eligible for the worst contracts draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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In the GM case, we don't even know what the contracts are, but you could still take a guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Doesn't matter. Anyway, House or Waz, one of you can have it. Do you want the first pick, Waz, or do you want it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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This is an interesting case because it actually is untradeable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Shams is reporting he's exercised it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I would argue we should name it after Andre Blatch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I know, but they gave him an extension and then amnestied him before the extension kicked in. We're never going to top that. That's never going to happen in the history of the league ever again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Right, that could be the John Wall too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Well, it's also funny that the way they got him was Chris Paul was an expiring, right? That they could have bought out after his next year. And then they had Aiton who they wanted to get rid of. And they somehow turned that into Beal. And then another guy who's going to be in this worst contracts draft a little bit later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was like they took two things where they actually would have had some flexibility and now they're just stuck. I just want to mention, His last two years, he's averaging 18 a game with 51, 40, 42, 82 percentage splits. And on paper, you could go to Basketball Reference in 50 years and be like, Bradley Beal wasn't that bad. This contract's devastating.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When do you think his last season playing 61 games was?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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We always wait for the perfect week of the season. Far enough away from the playoffs, right after the trade deadline, guys start getting sidelined, scratched, bodies start breaking down. Perfect time to do this. And we have a couple doozies at the top. House, just thinking back this decade, who was your favorite worst contract of the decade before the guys this year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Yeah. How many playoff games do you think he's played since he lost to the Celtics in the Kelly Olenek game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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He's played 15 total. So they're not making it this year. So that'll be eight playoff games, 15 playoff games in eight years for Bradley. Anyway, a stunning number one pick, but I kind of liked it. Bold. People tomorrow in the papers would be like, Big Wasp pulled with his first pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We didn't have the same depth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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It was probably the Ben Simmons, right? When he had all that money left, was he number one or somebody else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1979.975

And we don't even know how much he makes and he's number two in the worst contract draft. Yeah, I did something on my pot at the top on Tuesday and I was thinking about it. Cause remember like when LeBron left Cleveland the first time and they would do those franchise values every year. And the last year he was on Cleveland, they were like the number two team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then a year later they were like 28th. And it was just, they went from being like worth, I don't know, a billion point two to like being worth like 500 million. This is 15 years ago. If Luca wins the title with the Lakers this year, You could argue Dallas might, like this might be a, they have to move in the middle of the night and go somewhere else. Like just break leases.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Like who is the guy in the Colts? Ursae?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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They just moved to Baltimore in the middle of the night one night. It might be a move in the middle of the night one night. I don't know how they recover. And the way sports is consumed now with all these little kids get attached to players instead of teams. And all these kids love Luca. I don't know how they come back. Like, wow, this might be like a death blow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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You had to get twice as much in the trade. And then even then, I'm not sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Well, did you see? Did you see kids thing? Do you see kids thing about he was he took real offense that people thought it was the increased workload that that hurt Kyrie's knee. And he's like, it was a fluke injury. It was like, dude, offense. We've been following the NBA our whole lives.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Like this is Klay Thompson going down the 2019 finals because he was playing like crazy minutes and doing some crazy workload. And then all of a sudden his his leg blew out like this is what happens in the league. The more you put on these guys, the more likely it is they're going to break down. Dumbass.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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When they shook out a trade and backed out, became the first team in 15 years to back out of a trade? It was a smart back out. Good back out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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So the better move would have been to back out of the trade because of the physical, because of the reaction. But now you've lit a fire under Luca. That would have been a better outcome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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It was unbelievable to you as it was happening and the no trade pushed it over the top. Is there anybody else you would put, Waz? Would you put Simmons above that or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I mean, why would he even want to stay in Dallas now? He should resign. Great point. Here's the thing. I'll make a prediction because we saw this in 2011 when Cleveland miraculously won the lottery the year after LeBron left. I just think Dallas wins the lottery now. I'm going to bet on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I'm going to bet on it on FanDuel. No.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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We got safe basketball at Dallas. Oh, they got Cooper flag. Everything's okay. You don't like this idea, House? Like 101 odds?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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God, you guys took that so seriously. I'm up. I don't know how he's still on the board. It's very reminiscent of the 2014 NBA draft when he fell to three. Vince Carter was half man, half amazing. He's half man, half available. He's Joel Embiid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Five years, $299.5 million left. By the end of this season, because he's been scratched for the rest of the season, 452 games played, 440 games missed. It's a very sad story. I don't mean to sound so excited talking about it. I'm just excited he was still on the board. I'm just going to read through his injuries, guys. In college, stress fracture in his lower back, mismarch madness.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Right before the draft, stress fracture, navicular bone in his foot, 2014. Rebroke the same thing, 2015. Left meniscus tear, 2017. Fractured orbital bone, 18. Finger surgery, 2020. Right meniscus tear, 2021. So he tore meniscus in both legs. Torn ligaments, right thumb, 22. Fractured same orbital bone, 22. Right torn lateral meniscus, 23.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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There's two different meniscuses, I guess, in his right knee. Tore both of them. Bell's palsy, 24. And then this year... They don't they're not even telling us what the injury is. It's just left knee swelling management that now he's out. And what's weird is the left knee was the one that's only been operated on once unless they're not telling us about one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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And then the right knee, which isn't even the one that's having all the swelling, has two operations, four years left. it's, there's no way out of this. And we've seen with the big centers, like once you keep breaking down like this, there's really no path back. And maybe if there's a path, it's 50, 60 games. brutal contract was. Why did they do the extension? Will we ever figure this out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Yeah, but why? Why? they said, so they do the extension, but then bond temps writes that piece right before the season starts about how Philly finally has their plan to peak in the playoffs. And Embiid says, I'm never playing back to backs again for the rest of my career. That would have been my extension red flag. Call me nuts to just add the 3 million, three years and 170 million to a contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I'm already worried about house. What, from what you saw from Embiid in the Olympics, would you have given him an extension?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Oh, yeah, there was the Westbrook one. I forgot. Yeah, we had that Wall-Westbrook trade combo. Yes. Simmons was five years for 177, and I think the last four was just complete regret by everybody who had him. So we should mention, you know, we've been trying to stay positive on the pods with our Ringer NBA coverage. This isn't a sadly negative podcast, but we have fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Oh, yeah. You can't get used to the smell of shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Didn't look as explosive. No, they used his size really well, but you could tell he wasn't 100%.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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By the way, that's a red flag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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He would have been 32 and had played 60% of the games in his career. Listen, I've known Darryl a long time. I think if there's a flaw with him, I think he wants to be liked by players. And we saw that when the Harden thing fell sideways. And I just think he likes Embiid. and wanted to take care of them and, and chose to see it as a glass half full versus a glass half empty thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think the owners like can be too. And ultimately like that was what was so funny about last week when they're leaking out, like this was Daryl's fault. Daryl did this. It's like the owner makes the decision. They just stop. It's that one person is, is signing that extension. And one person is asking all the questions and getting all the answers for it. But

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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We don't, there might be some like insurance wrinkles with this that, you know, cause we found out more info about Zion's contract as he, as the months came out and there might be some wrinkles with this, but as of yet, we have not heard of any. And this just seems like a straight $300 million for a guy who doesn't seem like he's going to be able to play that much.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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He'll be 31 next year. Yeah. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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We have not seen. The only person we've seen retire is Andrew Luck. Yeah. Like just walk away from money. And that was seemed like a more like, I don't want to put my body through this anymore. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Hey, there's great contracts, great trades, great teams. The storylines are awesome right now. How sweet. We haven't talked on the pod. We have the Warriors and Lakers as legitimate contenders all of a sudden. It's unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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A lot of a tragic figure. I mean, everybody likes him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Right. Well, House and I are old enough to remember doing this dance with Bill Walton way, way, way back when. Yeah. Yao Ming, Greg Oden, Ralph Sampson. There's been a lot of big dudes that their bodies couldn't hold up because... Just fundamentally, it's really hard for a 7'3 person to run up and down a basketball for nine months a year and jump up and down and land on things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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You're playing with fire. All right, we're going to take one more break, and then we'll do the rest. All right, come back. Waz is up. There's one big kahuna still left on the board.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I honestly thought these two could be one, two in the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Amazing. So Paul George is four years to 11.6. Three years after this one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I couldn't figure out a way to look this up because I'm not smart enough. But when somebody drops six points a game, just fundamentally, when somebody goes from 22 to 16 and they played their like year 12 or later, it usually doesn't come back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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The league feels like it's been supercharged over the last couple of weeks. We were like worried. Oh, my God, this is just going to be Cleveland, Boston, OKC and literally nobody else. And now all of a sudden Denver's in there. The Lakers, the Warriors, the Knicks are kind of lingering a little bit. But was super fun NBA season all of a sudden.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I remember talking about this with Jermaine O'Neal 20 years ago, when you go from being a 24, 10 guy or 22, 11 guy, and now you're like a 15 and nine guy, it doesn't come back. And that, that would be my fear with Paul George. And I don't, they said like, something's wrong with this finger, but it doesn't explain the lack of explosiveness. It's

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Wow, we could have foreseen it. This is bad. House, this is one of those, we see this in sports sometimes, you had to do it, but you didn't feel awesome about it as you're doing it. Signings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Well, next year is year 16 for him in the NBA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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The year after that will be year 17. And then the last year of this contract will be year 18. Not feeling great about it. And he's another one that's had some physical stuff, right? He's got the rod in his leg and all kinds of things. Well, House, you're up in the... there's, I think there's one prime time guy left here, but we'll see if you take them. Oh, interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I think there's, I think there's one good one left, but let's see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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It's round two and houses already like flummoxed and can't figure out how to pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Can we give the contract? Because he's on the last year of his rookie deal, which is $10 million. Next year, we're kicking in five years, $224 million. So you're not a fan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I've been saying this for a while, and the Toronto fans get mad. I'm not against Scottie Barnes becoming potentially a guy, but they've been... He's been treated from day one like he's a future franchise guy. Remember, he wasn't in the KD trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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You go really good? I think he's a good player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Controlling the ball at the end of the game. It's that Iguodala Philly situation, right? Where it's like, all right, you're not really a number one guy, but if you're a number three guy on an awesome team, you might be awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I love it. House has replaced Trump as the number one enemy of Canada.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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It's good. And you warned us about Bradley bill. You've warned us about guys in the past. Scotty Barnes averaging 28 and six. He's shooting 27% from three. And the team loses year after year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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He turns 24 in August. Listen, they need him to be a number one guy if they're going to pay him that kind of money. That's right. I agree. I like the pick. You used history. Thank you. I think this young guy might be a Max guy, so I'm giving him a Max when there's no actual evidence he's a Max guy. Look at his stats and his basketball reference page is really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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We have seen this go wrong many times. I like the Wiggins seat too. Well, guys, I feel like I've already won the draft. I got Joel Embiid with the third pick. Kawhi Leonard still on the board. I don't know. What are you guys doing? Kawhi Leonard, three years, $149 million. He's played 20 games this season. He's played 249 games in six years for the Clippers. He's played 15 playoff games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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What is he, Cal Ripken Jr. all of a sudden?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I watched last night and it's like, there's Kawhi during a timeout wearing a, you know, jogging suit. It's like, oh, I guess he's not playing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Never know if he's going to play. You go to a Clipper game, it's like, oh, Kawhi's warming up. He's going to play. This is great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's the fact of him not being available. So the case for this contract, they had a really fun Lakers game a couple nights ago. And Kawhi played, played 40 minutes. 13 for 23, 33 points, 10 rebounds, and looked like he was every bit as good as Luke and LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Two of the highest IQ guys we've had in the last 30 years on a basketball court. I'm pretty sure they'll figure it out. It's been really fun to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And that's why he did it. Now, if you saw a tweet tomorrow and it's like Kawhi Leonard has been shut down for the next three weeks, wouldn't be surprised at all. And that's why for 50 million a year. It's fair. I got to put him on there. 249 games in six years for the Clippers is nuts. Waz, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like they, who are they competing against five years, 90 million for Patrick Williams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The bulls are your, your guy in your fantasy league, your, your friend that you haven't talked to in 12 years, who doesn't really make any moves. And then every once in a while we'll spend $58 in the free agent auction. And you're like, Oh, there he is. It's like trying to finish sixth place. what's this guy doing? I just likes being in the league. He likes being on the email threads.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Uh, they're embarrassing. I, I had Patrick Williams too. He's 26 minutes a game somehow this season, averaging 37% from, uh, on field goals house. And, uh, I've never, I just don't get it when I watched them. He doesn't really jump out of the TV. There seems like there's 20 guys like him. I don't know why you would pay him. I think five years from 50 would have been Insane.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It looks like he's completely lost his ability to play basketball. Because I looked up when they made the trade last year. Because I remember thinking like... Oh, getting Terry Rozier for what they gave up like a first for him. I would much rather do that than give all the shit you had to give up for Dame Lillard, which included Tyler Hero, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So when they traded for him last year, he played 30 Charlotte games, 23.2 points a game. Yeah. 36% from three. Yeah. And was playing awesome and was like crunch time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. This year... His stats are almost half. He's 11.8 points a game. He's shooting 40%. He's shooting 29% from three. And I test wise, he might be the worst rotation guy in the league. And I don't know what happened. And there's lots of theories floating around, not hard to find, but you know, it really seems like whatever, there might be a scandal with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There might not with some of this betting thing, but it really seems like it sent him into an absolute tailspin, but they keep playing him as the part I don't get house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Orlando's 29-34. Atlanta's 28-34. So they could fall to the ninth seed pretty easily if they wanted to. The shocking thing to me is they are a bottom half of the league from a talent standpoint. The weirdest thing to me that I think helps your theory house is why they didn't want Schroeder. Why don't they want him? Great point. Like they, they actively try to not keep him in the trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like that guy actually would have been a really fun heat that would have helped you. And now instead you're playing Terry Rozier. I don't, I've never seen some, somebody who is not past this prime, right? He was, he's, I think he was, I'm going to say he's 30. I've never seen somebody greater.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I've never seen somebody crater where last year you're watching going, man, Terry Rozier, could he make the all-star team to this guy is now the worst rotation guy in the league. Good pick house. Um, I feel really bad with my next pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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doesn't make me feel good i almost want to take a shower after um he's somebody i did not like for a long time and he really won me back over the last couple years i really respect him i really feel bad for him i feel for him and this is way too soon but i have to take kairi irving um he only has two years left at 84.9 million he's not playing this year and i don't think he's playing next year

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Well, regardless, this Kyrie, the ACL injury, when it happens at this point in the season, it's usually a season and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We saw it with Jamal Murray. In football, you can come back in less than a year. In basketball, it doesn't seem like you can. So basically, he's not going to play again on this contract. And I feel bad, but I don't see a worse contract left than two years, 84.9 for a guy who can't play. So not his fault. It's tough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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With a lot of scary history for small guards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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So we have a Celtic Laker game Saturday night. That's You know, other than that first Cleveland OKC game is probably the most fascinating game of the season. And it's two guys that the Celtics have real history with. Right. They played Luke in the in the finals last year. And then LeBron has been their biggest foil of the 21st century, both on the same team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Wait, you're saying that a team owned by Patrick Dumont who just traded the most popular guy in the history of the franchise since Dirk DeWitzki and then talked all kinds of leaky shit about him after they traded him would do something shady?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're up now. Go ahead. Actually, let's take one more break and then you're up. All right. Let's go speed round from now on. Waz, you're up. Who do you got?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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To be fair, it's three years, $120 million extension.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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And it's still awful because that's $40 million a year for a guy that New Orleans could not trade for a solid year as an expiring contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Also, I love putting a worst contract on here that hasn't officially kicked in yet. Kudos to everybody involved. It's on its way. Musayu Harry, who, remember there was that moment when it was like, could the Knicks just turn over the entire franchise to him? Is this guy the next, see the next guy? And he did a great job with the Raptors in the 2010s, but holy shit, the last five years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I disagree with basically everything they've done. I just don't understand it. House, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're so weird to watch just as a team. Now they have no center. Did no point guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, it's time. The annual NBA worst contracts draft with House and Wise. It's next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed it, we did a rewatchables on Monday night. It was Rocky, the 1976 Oscar winner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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First of all, classic house, backhanded compliment, talks about what a great fit he is, then complains about the contract. The extension was four years for 207.8. That kicks in starting next year. I'm personally fine with it. I had him way later in the draft. I had him way later in the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Long arm Jackson. But you watch that and you're like, I don't know why this is working, but it's working. And this is a team I would not want to see in a series when everything slows down and you have to play the same team every time for two weeks. And I just don't want to see these guys under any circumstances. And LeBron looks rejuvenated.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think House has moved into the clear number one spot for a guy who's going to take the most shit online from this draft. And I can't wait for it. I'm going to read you the salary years for my pick. Yet another great pick. I feel like I'm dominating the draft now. $43.827,587 this year. So almost $44 million this year. Three-year extension kicking in for $109.5 million next three years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's right. The Stifle Tower himself. Rudy Gobert. I had him circled.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is a really interesting one. They had him at 43.8 this year and 46.6 next year. And they thought they would get all smart. They're like, hey, Rudy. Let's wipe out that player option for the 46.6, and we'll give you the three years 109. And then we'll turn Carl Anthony Towns into DiVincenzo and Julius Randle. And it's a reallocation of money. It's going to be great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Rudy Gobert, who is having the worst statistical season he's had, is it fair to say he is unplayable? in a Lakers series, an OKC series, and a Golden State series?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You think he sees the court in a Lakers series? You think he sees a fourth quarter in a Lakers series with Luka and LeBron in the game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then he got played off the court by Luka Doncic in the next series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But why? That's not why they did it. I would be fine if that's why they did it. They did it because of the money, because they are worried about how much money they're paying. They didn't want to pay Townsville what he was paying. And they looked at it as like, we can get off this Randall deal, hopefully next year, because they'll have an awesome season for us. They'll go into free agency.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Guess what? Julius Randall will be opting into the $32 million next year. So they didn't get out of that contract. Deep and Shenzo, they're going to lose. And now they're stuck with Rudy for three more years. And I don't know, man. They're going to lose Nas Reed now. Nas Reed is gone. Like he's done. He's leaving. They can't keep him out. There's no chance they keep him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And by the way, LeBron started to look rejuvenated two weeks before this trade. I'm just flagging that. I'm just flagging that. Yeah, he's got – Hopping his step from about two weeks earlier.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He is going to New Orleans. He'll go to Brooklyn. He could go to your Washington Wizards. He's going to be making $35 million a year next year and will not be in Minnesota.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm going to be texting you guys when he's sitting on the bench in the fourth quarter of a Lakers series, watching LeBron and Luka run pick and rolls. Waz, you're up. But Julius Randle's still available.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Four for one, 14 for him. I mean, it could be worse. They could have traded Dyson Daniels in the weight house. You're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're just taking him anyway?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Did you say Jimmy Curry? You've already had your first malapropism of the pod. I did say it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I like it. You know, I'm upset that Patrick Williams is gone because this is right where I thought I was going to be able to get him. But he's not he's not on the list anymore. I got to do a manual quickly. We got to go back to the Raptors. Wow. Unbelievable. Got to do it one more time. He's in the first year of a deal that pays him five years, 162.5 million. And I kind of like Emmanuel quickly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like he's 38% from three. He's instant offense off the bench, but his destiny on any good team on an actual good team would be a sixth or seventh man, a bench score, instant offense. That's how you'd want to ideally use him. And you don't pay 30 plus million dollars a year for a guy like that. You pay like 14 million dollars a year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You pay the Celtics are paying Peyton Pritchard seven million a year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Right. That would, if we were doing the best contracts, that's when it was up there. For sure. I just, it's just too much money. If it was five for 100, I'd be like, all right, I guess. But, uh, when you're talking about that much and now you're basically locked into Barnes and Ingram and quickly as your three expensive guys, where the fuck are you going at that point?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What, what, what do you think is going to happen? Wait, you're going to win. 38 games? I honestly do not understand what Toronto is doing. Anyway, Waz, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, he blew out his knee, but you're saying next year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I didn't know where to put him on the board because he technically has four for 163 left, but they have all these different outs for games played, for weighing him, and it seems like a movable contract. I also think teams would have traded for it in February if they had put it out there, and I know teams kick the tires on it. I'm positive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think New Orleans was like, no, we need, but maybe this summer we could see something. He's looking at these games though. I did too. I want it to work. Um, okay. Well, I need a white guy. And, uh, this is very similar to, to what I just laid out with Emmanuel quickly, uh, Grayson Allen at four years, 70 million to basically be my ninth man. Like, yeah, he's shooting 43% from three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's Sam Houser. He's in that kind of level of like those white dudes the Cavs have. There's a bunch of these guys. And guess what? None of them are making 17, 18 million a year. They're all making like three. They're making four. They're making two. They're making, oh man, we found this guy in the waiver wire. They're not making this. So congratulations, Matt Ishbia. You did it again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, he's making Austin Reeves money. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy. He's making more than Austin Reeves. He's making more than Austin Reeves. That's correct. He's nowhere near as good. I'm glad you brought up Austin Reeves because fuck the Spurs again for not making an offer that summer. I said it that whole month and everybody's like, why are you just saying this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Because you want the Lakers to lose him. It's like, no, I'm saying because Austin Reeves is good and he should have gone. Now that's somebody, if he got a quickly deal, I would have been like, all right, a little high, but I would do it. Waz, who do you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm sorry. I love when you do this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

4986.668

So they're paying him four for 186. It's year one of the new extension. Listen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because I want to win 43 games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I think there's a world where you could build an awesome team around him, but I think it's really hard. Like you really have to put a lot of thought into every other player in that roster because he does have some limitations, but you're right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Wow. Every year, Sabotus just takes strays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're going to get to play golf at Bel Air with Doc. We got to praise him. Now you pissed off another fan base.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And wait for the playoffs, Al.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Yeah, it's very Dan Campbell, Lions-ish, those speeches he does. And, you know, it's little stuff with him, like the pulling back Dalton Connect, right? Guy gets traded out of nowhere, goes to Charlotte, meets everybody on Charlotte. Trade gets rescinded. It's like, ooh, hey, man, good to see you again. How have you been? Boy, this is awkward. And yet he's he's, you know, inspiring him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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For my next pick, First of all, House has won the draft for pissing off the most fan bases. He locked it up two rounds ago. Milwaukee's not going to be pissed. Oh, yeah. Don't be mad. The Dame fans. There's a whole Dame hive. I can't believe this guy's still available. Three years, 66 million. Contavious Caldwell Pope. Goes to Orlando.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Leaves Denver. Christian Brown comes in and is immediately like twice as good as he was. Goes to Orlando. Oh, my God. Twice as good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Here are the stats. 60 games. 8.6 points. 2.1 rebounds. 1.8 assists. Congratulations on all that. 31% from three. Yeah. He's rocking the 9.0 PER.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he's playing 30 minutes a game. And you could argue, if anyone playing 30 minutes or more a game, he might be the least useful player. And I know there's good defense. Look, he's a good defensive player. There's metrics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Great locker room guy, all that. But I promise you they were looking for more than what he's given them this year with this contract. So he is my pick. Wiles, who do you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Well, can we get the deal? One for 12. And then next year, three for 105 as an extension.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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And by the way, good content for us because he's going to be in 58% of the fake trades we make in June.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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When we get to David Booker and we try to, it's like, well, Jalen Green will be in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

5254.381

He cannot create anything for anybody else. That would be the criticism.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Yeah. There was a moment last year when it really felt like it all came together and I have not seen it. It was waiting. House, you're up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You always forget to say the contract. Three years, $85 million. That counts this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Everyone's getting groggy. We're nearing the end of the draft. And I haven't really pissed off the fan base yet. And I also haven't made Waz laugh hysterically with a pick yet. And I think this is going to be it. It's the most controversial pick of the late rounds. I got to do it. Four years, 163 million. John Morant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Listen, it's the end of the draft. I'm just trying to get value. I'm just trying to get value. Why doesn't he play? Why doesn't he play?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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It's not like he's a huge part of the team, but he's one of their best nine guys. They kind of need him. I've been fascinated watching and I've talked about this in the pod before, but watching LeBron just like his fucking Terminator brain recalculating how he should be used. with Luca having the ball this much.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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He's 25. What are we preserving him for? He should be playing every game. He can't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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So this year he's played 38 games this year. He played nine games last year. He plays 29.4 minutes a game. He doesn't even play 30 minutes a game. And they are kid gloves bubble wrapping him. And now yesterday he didn't play well. And he's like, I don't know if my shoulder is going to be good the rest of the year. So now I have a fundamental shoulder issue on top of all the other baggage. Like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Look, there's 10 teams that are paying in that contract without blinking. I'm just flagging it. We're near the end of the draft. The contract, the numbers are pretty high for somebody who doesn't seem like he's going to play all the time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

5477.847

And he's a very good defender, but I will also say that Tatum and Brown aren't exactly quaking in their boots when they see him. And that was one of the reasons they did that thing. I'm with you. For the injury issues with him that always are lingering, 212 is a scary number.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Where his team has been high fiving and shaking hands and celebration after games. It's a unique experience for him. We're missing the winning component now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think he immediately embraced, I don't need to actually use as much energy as I used to. This is actually really good for me. Now I'm like picking my spots in short bursts. It's very similar to that first Miami season when Wade was awesome. And he didn't know how to pick his spots that year, especially as we got in the playoffs. And now, you know, he's such a good three-point shooter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Woz took Bradley Beal to kick us off. House took Nico Harrison. I took Joel Embiid. And then it went Paul George, Scotty Barnes, Kawhi Leonard, Patrick Williams, Terry Rozier, Kyrie Irving. I felt bad about that one. Brandon Ingram, Jamal Murray, Rudy Gobert, DeJounte Murray, Ben Simmons, just an emeritus just has to be picked anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If they're making a million bucks, House just hasn't been on the board. Honorary. I took a manual quickly. Then Grant Williams, Zion Williamson, Grayson Allen, Dematis Sabonis, Dame Lillard, Contavious Caldwell-Pope, Jalen Green, Andrew Wiggins, John Morant, O.J. Ananobi, LaMelo Ball, and the last pick of the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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only because he has to, another guy, he's like Ben Simmons, he has to be in their house. He's so excited. Zach Levine, three for 141. We got to have him. Can't leave Zach. Zach was outside the door knocking, like, hey guys. I thought that was the worst contract party. Hey, anybody home? Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, the case for that, even though he's had a really good year, is the Bulls traded him and didn't even get good stuff back. They got a hill of beans. They just got bad contracts from other teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So apologies to the following people for not getting picked. Julius Randle, two for 64. Jimmy Butler, three for 159. Chris Middleton on house is with us. Two for six. Yep. Zach Collins, two for 35.7. Part of that contract is still happening. How is he not in our draft?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Terrence Mann, one for 11 this year, then kicks in three for 47. Lori Markkinen, five for 237. I did look at him for the last couple rounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I almost took him over John Morant. Gary Harris, two for 15. Just had to put it under their principle. Buddy Heald, four for 38. Can't believe he didn't get drafted. Teams are trying to sign him as an undrafted free agent for the draft right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He wasn't in 2011. Now he is. But then he's also figured out the defense rebounding. It's a really great team to watch right now. And I'll say this. I know a lot of Laker fans, as this was, I can't even describe how euphoric they are. They went from like, this is a wrap. I don't like watching this team. I can't take another AD up and down. He's hurt. He wants to play the four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I had a wonderful time. Me too. It was the worst contracts draft. My favorite part is that everyone's going to be the maddest at house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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I feel like maybe the Memphis fans come after me a tiny bit. Waz, who's coming after you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

5773.844

Definitely Sacramento. Oh, Sabonis. Yeah, the Sabonis hive coming at you. This was a blast though. Thanks to Saruti and thanks Kyle. Thanks Gahal. As always, you can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify. I don't know why you would, because you just finished the podcast, but it's also going to be available on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

5791.17

You can listen to the house on fairway rolling and on the, uh, ringer gambling show. You can listen to wise. I'm group chat with Mahoney and barrier on the ringer NBA show. Great to see you fellas. Thank you. Yeah. Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and president DC gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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LeBron's padding his stats. He's not playing defense. This sucks. We're fucked for the decade. In a flip, it's like they inherited money from some aunt they never knew. It's like, my aunt just gave me $10 million. I hadn't seen her in 12 years. That's the attitude. They're going absolutely crazy house, and I might have to move.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, it's at least basketball. I think it's the craziest, most invincible trade we've had in basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

648.451

And we said this when the trade happened. And I know I said this on this pod. This is the greatest thing you ever did for Luka Doncic. we talked about this was when we did the trade deadline pod, like a week after it's like, well, yeah, maybe you were worried about some stuff, but you just did him the greatest favor you could have ever done them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

65.641

Can't believe we didn't do it yet. It was me and Chris Ryan and Van Lathan. So please go check that out. You can check it out on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. As well. I'm also on the Prestige TV podcast every Sunday night doing White Lotus recaps with Joanna and Mallory. And we have a great time doing that. We're brought to you by Fandle Sportsbook as well, by the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Now, now he's going to have a comeback. And that's the other thing with LA is LA loves comeback stories. LA loves like, Oh, Ben Affleck. He's he's made gone baby gone. He's back. He looked like he had it rock bottom. Now he's putting his career back together. And this Lucas, as great as he is, but he was a little bit of a comeback story. It's gonna be fun to watch him get in better shape.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

690.696

Embrace vegan food. Embrace smoothies. Embrace the Versa climber. All this stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

706.798

He needs a celebrity relationship soon. He's going to be playing all the hits. It's going to be great. Fellas, I don't want to see this team in a playoff series if I'm basically anybody. And I'm sure there's going to be ways as we keep watching them that you can solve some of their deficiencies. But right now, it's just...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you have two guys who are putting up 60 points a game, I just don't want to see a team like that. So that story has been great. And then Golden State. Oh, excellent. The Jimmy thing is excellent. Can we officially say that worked out way better for them than getting KD? Because when we did the trade deadline, we were like, hmm, I don't know. What are we getting from Jimmy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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And we were all bullish on the Jimmy part. But I think now that we've watched it, the fact that he can give them this two-way defense stuff doesn't really necessarily need the ball. You don't get all of the up-and-down personality stuff that, sadly, KD brings to the table from time to time. We saw it the other night on TV. Wait, wait, wait, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm just talking this season, House.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

772.557

We've seen Jimmy's teeth this season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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He didn't want to go to Golden State House. If he did want to, is what I'm saying. If it had been in his brain that that was where he wanted to land. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. I mean, he didn't want to go to Golden State.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, 16, 17 Golden State. That was the last full happy season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 NBA Worst Contracts Draft With Joe House and Wosny Lambre

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And they're doing the 30 on 30 podcast. those little profit boosts that we do. Every Friday, you have to pick a 30 points plus score. Who's going to get at least 30? Look at all the matchups. I'll tweet out my picks who I think might have the best chance to do it. And if you hit, you get 30% profit boost on it. So let's say Jokic on Friday night is like, I don't know, minus 128.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. It's crazy. The other thing, it's so funny with basketball, how you can just add one guy and the entire team slides into place, right? Like, now Moody is kind of doing a Wiggins impersonation defensively, and he was really good the other night in that Knicks game. Pods, who had the ball too much, and they were almost using him as like a second...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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second playmaker because they didn't really have another choice. Now he just is who he is, which is a guy on the side who can hit some threes and rebound and play hard. And then Draymond doesn't have to worry about anything at all other than throwing entry passes to Jimmy or setting screens for Steph. And you feel, Russell and I talked about it Sunday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like you can see it's like a different human being, Steph now. Steph had weight of the world on his shoulders. Just looked like he had played nine games in 10 nights every night. And now he's skipping around. The way he played at MSG, he's a little tweaked ankle. And he's just dancing and prancing the whole day, which was awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, you know, it's funny because we talked, I don't know how many months ago, about how this league was a prisoner of the LeBron Steph eras. And they couldn't move on and create these new stars. So now, ironically, they might get these two. The thing to watch for me is, can Golden State get into the 4-5? Mm-hmm. Can they get OKC in round two? Because I want to get them earlier than later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, and, and I think avoid that Lakers Denver combo, let those guys beat the hell out of each other. And cause those are, those are going to be tough matchups for them, but if they can play OKC, I know OKC is excellent and they're a really good young team and they're having a great season, but Golden State OKC, they've already had awesome games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's a team that I think Golden State feels like we can play with this team. Um, And I just feel like if we end up, we could have a round two where we could have Celtics-Knicks, we could have Lakers-Denver, and we could have Golden State-OKC. Those would be three of the four series. And I don't even know who the other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Coming up, part one of our special live trade deadline extravaganza next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

101.38

The sequel to Before Sunrise was four of us, me, Sean, Chris, Mallory. You can watch it on Ringer Movies' YouTube channel. You can also watch, Sean and Chris and I did a trailer reaction to the new Jurassic Park movie, which I think is called Jurassic Park Money Bag, so you can watch that on YouTube as well. You can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

1019.999

Let's talk about this, yeah, because this is part of the Butler conversation. So if you look at the West, OKC, Memphis, Houston, Denver, and the Lakers, who we're going to talk about. The Lakers are 29 and 19. And I think Arrow pointing up, I think all five of those teams are in the playoffs, right? So there's one playoff non-playing spot left. We have the Clippers at 29 and 22.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Looking a little creaky. Yeah. Minnesota 28 and 23. They've looked creaky the whole time. We have four teams with 25 losses, Dallas, Sacramento, Phoenix, Golden State. So now that's 11. And then we have San Antonio at 22 and 26 with some good vibes. There's 12 teams that have a chance. Four of those teams are not going to make the playoffs. And I can stare at that list forever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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And it's like, what would your, who would your four be? Like, who's your number one? Would you have San Antonio as your number one pick for not making the playoffs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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So if they went on like a five-game winning streak, they'd be in the ballpark? Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Okay, so now it gets fun. Who's your number two pick for, sorry, the West is too loaded, you're not making the playoffs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Well, can I give you the Fando odds? See, this is cheating. Spurs plus 370 has the highest odds to make the playoffs. So they agree with us on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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And say, I've ruined my own draft. I should have looked at this after. Okay. Sacramento plus 290. Yeah. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

1142.878

They basically have thrown away the point guard position. But when you watch them, especially in crunch time, it kind of makes sense with Malik like running stuff and it's not that crazy. And then when they did the Valanciunas trade, I was like, what the fuck is that? That makes no sense to me. You can't play him and Sabonis at the same time. And I was like, wait a second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I started getting like flashbacks to bad FIBA games. And I'm like, oh, those guys were teammates. And then you go read it and those guys are boys. They've figured out how to weirdly either play with each other or not. And they got them for free. And they just have all these professional and veteran basketball players. I would put Phoenix over them.

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Phoenix is plus 198 on FanDuel to make the playoffs. I think the Phoenix thing, like the stuff you hear like through the grapevine about like the locker room. Shocking. Our guy, Coach Bud. Maybe a little Donnie Nelson on the Knicks-ish where it's just like not working out at all. You're not going to believe this, Waz, but it seems like KD might be on another unhappy team.

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There's been no track record of that over the years. That's never happened, literally. Booker looks just miserable at all times. Weird year for him. And then Beal is getting heckled at home games. So I would have them second and Sacramento third. What do you have? What's your order for the top three?

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On the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, that's where we went live and we did a part one and a part two heading into the trade deadline. This is the part one that we started at 1.45 ET heading into the 75 minutes right up to the trade deadline. We recapped a bunch of stuff that already happened, tried to anticipate stuff. So when you listen to it, keep an ear for that.

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So Dallas is minus 110 and Golden State is plus 126. And I got to be honest. I would bet on Golden State to make the playoffs over Dallas. I think this Dallas thing could go bad. We haven't had the three-week Kyrie injury. I don't trust AD's health. The team's weird. There's big three stuff going on, but Klay's in the big three. It's like, we're done. 2020's Klay in the big three is out.

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And also the fan base is so angry and so hostile. And the vibes are just so brutal that I could see it tailspinning. I really could.

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Golden State 25 and 24, Dallas 26 and 24. And my guess is you got to get to maybe 46 wins to be, it's not just about being one of the six playoff teams, but you want to be seven or eight. You don't want to have to win the two road games in a row. I want to talk about the Jimmy FU factor. We're going to take a break for the podcast.

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Sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you can get a 30% profit boost from the ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. FanDuel, the ringer, teaming up to give you a 30% profit boost when either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game. Just looking at the Friday slate,

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I don't know. You could ride the SGA train. He's dropping 50 points left and right. He's playing Toronto. They can't guard anybody. You could do Cade Cunningham against Philly. You can do Giannis against Atlanta. I like that one. There's some good ones. I'll tweet out my picks when we get to Friday. But if you want to ride those or make them your own, look for 30 on 30.

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Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at Sportsbook.FanDuel.com. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. You sign up for something, forget about it after the trial period ends, then you're charged month after month after month. The subscriptions are there, but you're not using them.

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And then part two is coming a little bit later. That is... Everything right after 3 p.m., the official trade deadline and our final thoughts, plus my million-dollar picks for the Super Bowl, which we barely talked about this week. Sorry, sometimes basketball wins. I hate to break it to everybody. Anyway, here is me, Rob Mahoney, and Big Waz talking NBA trade deadline, part one. Let's go.

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Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2.

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Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. So, and I've said this before, and I feel really strongly about it. I actually thought that was a great trade for Golden State. I don't think they gave up really anything. I know they loved Andrew Wiggins, but just fundamentally, it was an NBA 2K trade where you're just cheating the system and you're basically just turning Wiggins into Butler.

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The protected pick, whatever. Yeah. The key to me would be if you're looking at it going, is Butler still good? Can he still be that guy? Because we didn't see it last year. He kept missing games, missed the playoffs. This year was spotty. And I think I talked about this more in a pod, but like five, six weeks ago, he had a game in Detroit. when he was just awesome.

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And that was, you can go back, you can watch it on League Pass. That's all you need to see. This was not one of those, oh, Jimmy made some threes and had a good game. He was fucking awesome. He was pissed off. I think he was mad at Miami. I think this was his trade value audition tape. And he just ran amok in this game. And I just think that's what he's going to do in Golden State.

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I don't know if it's going to last two months. I don't know if it's going to last a year and two months. I think two years from now, it could be a catastrophe for them where they're just like, oh my God, we have Draymond and this guy. What the hell? But short term with Curry's window, you got to do it.

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Yeah, there's the crunch time piece, but there's also the every four games, he's just going to be awesome in a game. Right now, this Warriors team, unless Steph is awesome, you saw it last night against Utah. Yeah. They can just suck for five minutes and all of a sudden blow a game. They've blown a lot of uncharacteristically close games. You know, I'm going to say this knocking on wood.

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I love Steph. He's at a different point of his career. He can still hit the heights, but he can't do it nearly as consistently.

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He's at a different point of his career. He just is. But I still think he could be a really great piece of a good team. With Butler... The question for me is that Detroit thing that he did that I saw, is that like a once every two weeks thing? Could he dial that up? Could he carry them? Because they're going to kind of need to jump on his back.

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And then when Kaminga comes back, if they keep him, and now they have some scoring off the bench, they have less guys in the team, which I think was a weird thing for them too. They had like 12, 13 guys that needed to play now that they've got the numbers down. But I just thought fundamentally it was an awesome trade.

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I still don't feel great about it as a basketball fan, but I just think that's... We just have these moments where this guy who's making 52 and then 52 next year, it's not even the final year of his deal. He has a contract next year with a player option he can opt into, and he's just decided, I don't like my situation anymore. I'm going to torpedo it.

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I really feel like whenever the next CBA comes up, how do they figure out a wrinkle for this? Because if you're like a Miami fan, you just have to be like, what the fuck just happened?

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That's a tough one to say, though, when you're just missing games left and right last year, which I think was Miami's problem. It's like, dude, first of all, you're under contract for this year and next year.

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and play more but then Riley did the old guy thing that was that's what he does though he did it to LeBron two days before LeBron left and LeBron took it personally I kind of love every time he does it but the question is do you need an old crazy guy running your basketball franchise because he clearly doesn't he gives no shits anymore

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I don't know what my camera is, but this is the Bill Simmons Podcast, YouTube Live, presented by Nicola Beltre, Superior Light Beer, the official beer sponsor of the NBA. That's Rob Mahoney. That's Big Waz. So we're about to go live here, and a big trade happened. Cleveland gets DeAndre Hunter for Levert Niang, two second-round picks. Second-round picks, giant commodity, Waz.

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Even Hassan Whiteside. He's like, I'm fucking, I just wish it ended better. So they also got Golden State's first, which is top 10 protected for two years in a row and then unprotected. I'm not scared. I still have Steph during that home run. Poor Dennis Schroeder. Can the guy just find a house to live in? Unfortunate remarks about trade culture.

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Because last time I checked, every professional sport has trades. Oh my God, yeah. But he's kind of stuck in this new rule with the apron where if you're over $12.8 million... nobody who's over a certain apron can buy you out?

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I thought there was like a 12.8 million level too for like certain, so there's like eight teams he just can't even get bought out and go to.

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One thing I didn't get with Miami, because I actually, there was a world where they just get Wiggins, Kyle Anderson, and Schroeder for...

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I'll just tell you, my dad and I talking last night, Miami just has a slew of guys who killed the Celtics and Dennis Schroeder kills the Celtics for some reason. Wiggins had a lot of success against them in 22. Kyle Anderson's just weird in general. And we were like, I hope they don't keep all these dudes. Because if we see them in like a 2-7 series.

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You really worried about this version of the Heat?

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Another guy who I've always kind of liked.

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Okay, that makes two of you. I don't want to play Miami. They fucking pulled Jedi mind trick shit against Boston.

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Too soon? Come on. He was absolved. Stop it.

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Miami has cap space now. They're under the tax. They have a trade exception. And maybe they'll do one more thing before the 45 minutes from now deadline. I don't know, man. The way Hero's playing... Bam's been playing better. Yeah. Ware, out of nowhere, feels like they have a little bit more of an identity. They have some shooting.

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We'll see if they can get more from Rogier, who's been really bad ever since they made that trade. But just as a sneaky, you're down 2-1 in a series against them, wondering what happened. I still feel like they're on the radar for me. Nobody else in the East is. That's the only team, once you get past the four seed, that's the only team I'd be like a little worried about in a series.

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I guess the Bucks, now that they got Kuzma, because he was red hot. I mean, he was playing great this season.

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And then two first-round swaps. We don't know what they are. I like this trade more than Rob. Because I like DeAndre Hunter. And you're like, go ahead, do your thing. I'm a skeptic.

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He was doing great this season.

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I've never seen plus minuses that could get to like minus 59.

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Rob, is this happening right now?

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Absolutely. I think he's in the running for worst player of the season. Wow. If we were doing LVP, if you've actually watched Wizards games, I think he's one of the worst players I've seen this season. Can he just flip the switch and put it back? I don't know.

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Is it that bad? Like they have a bunch of young guys. They have Jordan Poole playing pretty well this year.

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Is it that bad? You're a veteran on the team. You didn't want them to trade you last year. They're trying to trade you to Dallas. You're like, I want to be here.

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There was a stretch two weeks ago when he had zero points in two of three games. Like, goose eggs. It was a lot of alternating. But somehow he's shooting like 45% from three or some crazy thing.

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It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.

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Dwight Howard was on that team.

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I think Doc's going to hate Kyle Kuzma. I think he's going to be like, I can't believe we traded for this guy. Why didn't my scouts tell me?

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I'm going into our YouTube chat. Thanks to everybody who's sending questions. Rap Stallion says, hey, if it weren't for Kuzma, we might not have the nickname Din Shitty. I forgot about that. I forgot about the Kuzma Dinwiddie feud. So people want to know if they can trade Jordan Poole. He's playing pretty well this year.

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We're going to soon find out. I think they did the Vucevic trade and they're just like... Mic trap. No more trades for us. We did it.

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It turns out he was their MVP. Who?

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So with the Milwaukee, that Kuzma trade, which is really a money trade, they have to waste their first round pick they took last year, AJ Johnson, got under the apron, which raises the question, why did the CBA suck so much? How did the league just turn into just people trying to get under the apron, make financial moves, save tax money? How did they... I know it's like on the one hand, you have...

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The NBA, the owners, Adam Silver, probably the smartest lawyers on the planet. And then on the other side, you have like a couple players, some dude who took the job because they thought it'd be cool to get a picture with LeBron. And they just, they get worked every time. But this is disgusting.

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Is that Levert though? I mean, Levert's a little ball stopper.

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I've never seen it be the number one reason for this many trades before. We've always had like financial implications and stuff, but this is different. You have eight, nine, 10 teams that are just like, we're doing this because it gets us under apron one, apron two, apron three. I also think the fans don't, want to take the time to understand it. They don't care. It's confusing.

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And it turns into this have-have-not of basketball conversation.

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Well, it seems like they were... So I talked about this. We talked about this, about the Zach Levine thing, where... It's harder to trade Zach Levine. So Zach Levine then goes, all right, I guess I'll roll my sleeves up and I'm going to have an awesome season for Chicago. It's not like I can go anywhere. But for every Zach Levine, there's been 10 other ways that this went wrong.

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And it just seems like there's more player movement. There's more guys getting bought out. There's more roster turnover. We had another trade, by the way. What do we get? The Clippers have traded Terrence Mann. a beloved Clipper guy forever, who always had the T-man game, and Bones Highland, who couldn't have been more available, for Bogdan Bogdanovich in three second round picks.

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Now we're talking. The Clips needed like a heat checky, off the bench kind of guy like this. I was really hoping Denver would get Bogdanovich because he has the Jokic thing. But as you know, Denver's not allowed to make trades or spend money. I think they're a zero apron team.

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This happened in the Celtics five years ago where they either have giant contracts or small contracts that know in between. And you can't get the $16 to $20 million guy because you literally can't put the contracts together. Bogdanovich and the Clippers.

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He's been an underrated post-Olympics slowdown guy.

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10 points a game. Yeah. The shooting percentages are bad. Well, you know how normally 50-40-90 is the standard for percentages? He's a 37-30-88 guy. Not what you want. 7.6 PR. It's like nearing Bronny James level of... Sorry, Wes. But last year, 17 a game. Yeah. And...

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Yeah, I always feel with him like, first of all, Atlanta could not have been more of a wrong team for him. I don't know if Trey Young is the catalyst for him. I want to see him on a team that's like, you're coming in, you're going to play eight minutes, we're going to run plays for you. We're going to run you off picks, go nuts, do your thing.

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And then for the Hawks, Terrence Mann, another long swing guy. There's some Clipper fans in my life who are like, when are they going to unleash this guy?

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But then he failed an IQ test. He wasn't happy playing with Nikoli Okic, which is like the number one IQ test.

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Almost borderline, we could replace DN Waiters and the Rewatchables with the Bones Island heat check. It's almost like a personality heat check. All right, so Atlanta...

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Yeah, it's like, we already lost the pick. What do we care if it's 4, 12, 15? I would personally care. I would be like, oh my God.

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We've seen this happen in the past. I remember the Clippers, that one year when they traded their number one to get rid of Baron Davis' contract. Yeah, we're just going to eat it. And then it turned into Kyrie Irving.

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I just wouldn't want to, wouldn't want to find out. Speaking of teams that we don't know what the hell they're doing. Toronto traded for Brandon Ingram. What is this? I did a tweet where I did the power rankings of teams that I don't know what you're doing. And I didn't put Toronto in the top five because I haven't known what they're doing for like over a year.

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They just every year trade their pick. They get a guy who's kind of likable. He doesn't seem to make sense with any of the other players they have. And I have no idea why you would trade Bruce Brown, Kelly Olenek, and a pretty mediocre first. That's Indiana's pick. Yeah. to then pay Brandon Ingram when you're already overpaying Scottie Barnes, you're overpaying quickly.

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RJ Barrett's making a shitload. I just don't understand their team.

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I did. I think this is a trade for our Celtics series where you're thinking we got to go against Tatum and Brown for two weeks potentially. We need a wing with size. We're not totally fired up about this LeBert and Yang situation. Can Hunter be the guy? And I don't know. I like the trade. I don't care about swaps. Cleveland's going to be good the whole decade. Niang and Levert, whatever.

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And Brandon Ingram's been available since June? Like back in the days when we had video stores and you would just stroll by the new release section, you'd be like, huh, domestic disturbance with John Travolta and Vince Vaughn. I don't think so. And then you'd walk around for 15 more minutes and then you'd pick up the VHS tape again. Ah, Travolta and Vince Vaughn.

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And then you'd stroll around again. Like that's Brandon Ingram. People were just strolling by the new release aisle for him for nine months.

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I'm already frustrated. He has a top five body of like, oh man, you're going to get hurt. Just when you see him in person, he's so skinny.

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Occasionally. Here's the red flag for me beyond all the other red flags. So you had Golden State. who was definitely strolling around that new release video store over and over again. Steve Kerr, who coached Brandon Ingram on one of those FIBA teams. No shot. And by the end, Brandon Ingram was like, he's sick. He can't play in the last two games because he was just out of the rotation.

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And Golden State, who desperately needed anything. And this was like the layup trade of all time. Give up nothing for Brandon Ingram. And they were like, we're good. We're not doing that. And then Miami, they're sitting there too. Hey, we can turn, whatever. And Miami's like, we're also good. And then you have Toronto who's like, we don't think we can get free agents ever.

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So this is how we get free agents. And then they talk themselves into it. I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

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Never, ever. And he's ball stopper-ative.

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Would there be a worse team to be, like, the fifth guy? Than this one? Meaning you never get the ball passed to you? It's like you're the, like, Agbaje. You're like, fuck. Oh my God. I'm just going to be in the corner over here, guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was wondering if he was like a sneaky trade deadline piece. And Toronto have been frisky lately. Especially on D. They've guarded really well. Well, their fans are frisky. They're like always taking everything personally. I mean, they did win the title in 2019.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's reasons to boo the national anthem right now. Right. 2019, they won the title. And since then, Masai's just been on a heater. It's like when Obama finished the presidency. He's like, I'm opening a production company and I'm playing golf. Messiah's like, I'm going to trade for Brandon Ingram.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because they feel like they can't sign a free agent? I guess. Did Danny Chow like this trade?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I can't imagine. I'm going to say Brandon Ingram is not a Danny Chow type of player. Doesn't strike me as one. And then the New Orleans side of that trade, just quickly. So they're down to, as assets, Trey Murphy, the best player on the team, who I think is their only untouchable. He's been really good. Zion Williamson, wildcard, could get traded next half hour.

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Second round picks, whatever. And Hunter's on a great deal. I think he's making like 17. It's not too bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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CJ McCollum, always in trade rumors. Herb Jones, Hawkins, Missy. Alvarado and DeJounte Murray, who will not be playing for at least a year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And their first-round picks are fine, but not their whatever. They used to have like, oh, look at all those first-round picks. They've kind of taken all of them. But you go back to that AD trade. Dude, I go back to 2019 all the time. But look at all the people in this trade. DeAndre Hunter, Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, who I think was way more of an asset back then than he got hurt. Josh Hart.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Mo Wagner. I forgot Mo Wagner was there. 22 first, which became Dyson Daniels. The 23 swap didn't apply. And then the 25 first pick. It was a lot. When you look back at like, they did get a lot of players.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think anytime you can get somebody under 20 who can play in the last five minutes of a round two playoff game, That's a pretty good deal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A ton of assets that look awesome on paper, but no longer play it in the team. Yeah, it didn't quite work out. And the Lonzo thing was the thing that I think hurt them the most because I actually really think Lonzo... And we're seeing this diminished version of him in Chicago who's still like a really additive player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but going forward, I don't know what this team is. I don't know how long they're going to be in New Orleans. I don't know how long Zion's going to be in the team. I don't know what the plan would be going forward with this roster. And the Murray trade is catastrophic. I would have traded him already. Same. I don't think it's ever happening in New Orleans. So you just have to accept that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like we all said how Jimmy Butler for Wiggins is a trade that makes no sense on paper. But if you're Miami, you don't have Jimmy Butler anymore. You have the ghost, you have zombie Jimmy Butler who's not an asset. So now you turn him into a guy who can play defense and rebound and hit some threes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We knew somebody was going to suck in the West heading into this season. We're like, there's just too many good teams. There's too much talent. Who is going to be the out of nowhere, this team sucks team? New Orleans has played 15 games and won 12th. That would not have been on my bingo card. Like they have so much talent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You can feel something stinky maybe with them, the way they're hitting the Trey Murphy thing, Zion, you never know. But this is 12 wins is nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We are going to take a break for the podcast. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year, by the way.

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And who knows, one of them could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Pepsod Complete. We all know that one of the best parts of game day is the food.

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Visit Pepsod.com to shop now, all day, based on eight-hour symptom relief studies during the day. Use product only as directed. This episode is brought to you by Workday. There are two kinds of people in the world, backward thinkers and forward thinkers. Forward thinkers have plans 15 minutes from now and 15 years from now. They're not just one step ahead, they're 1000 steps ahead.

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And when you're a forward thinker, you need a platform that thinks like you do. Workday's AI illuminates decision making and reimagines how you manage your people and money for long-term success. Workday, moving business forever forward. Find out more at workday.com. So Phoenix going forward, the Durant piece of the Butler trade, which we did not discuss.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What did you think of him being like, I'm shutting this down. I don't want to go to Golden State. If you trade for me, I'm going to be unhappy because that's confirmed. I heard all the same stuff everybody else had. It seemed like on Tuesday that was going to be a three-way trade. I think it was really close. And it basically came down to, are we sure KD is on board with this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the feedback was he's not. He doesn't want to go back. So, Rob, you're in the Bay. Why did he want to go back?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A Steve Kerr piece, the Draymond piece, this will be bad for my legacy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I went back and looked at his 2019 game log splits because he was really good to start the year. And then after the Draymond thing, I forgot like, he was like 21 a game, 33% from three. And then in the playoffs, he ran back up and he was awesome. But it was damaging for months.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I just, you know, that's what's so funny when you see these stuff now, these podcasts or these guys do these fake things together. And it's like Draymond and KD, no, no, we're good. It's like, There's no way they're good. Like Katie's never forgiving whatever happened, whatever was said. No. And there's that piece. There's probably a Steve Kerr piece.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But from a basketball standpoint, if I was him, I would have rather been on Golden State. Just like it's a no-brainer. I don't want to be in this Phoenix team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And even it's not... Honestly, just put a bullet in my head there. I just wouldn't be able to handle it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can we bring in Conspiracy Bill for a second? Let's do it. I thought he was already in the room with us. No, we bring him in. Okay. I'll put a hoodie on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Are we sure there's that lingering bitterness with KD for the Achilles injury and maybe how that was handled by the team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Conspiracy Bill is here. I'm just asking. I have no inside information. Please don't aggregate this. I just always thought it was a little weird. He hurt his calf, came back and blew out his Achilles.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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it's risky to make a trade when you're doing really well to just mess with the chemistry and the vibes of what you have. But going back to the Boston thing, like I'm looking at Hunter's last season. Cause I remember him just playing well against the Celtics, my favorite team. And they had, they played them four times last year in the regular season and he was good in three of the games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I wonder what the people think on the chat. I'm going to look in the chat for this. Oh man, that really got the chat going. People want a 90 minute conspiracy bill. So maybe I just put it on the hood every time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's out of control. We're saving all Luka Laker stuff for part two. We're on trade deadline watch. We have Cody Zeller and Houston's 2028 second round pick going to the Rockets so Atlanta can get under the luxury tax. Oh, sources tell Freep Sports that Dennis Schroeder will end up with the Pistons as part of the massive Jimmy Butler deal. Fund the Pistons. I'm just getting a little frisky.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Could I get the sixth seed? I have an awesome player. I have a team that is tough and likes playing with each other and gets a little aggro in some of these games. I have the scariest guy in the league in Beef Stew.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, here's a fun one. In the Bogdanovich trade, the Clippers got three second round picks back, including their own pick. We're trading so many second round picks. Teams are now reacquiring their own picks. You don't love any pick like your own pick. We finally got it back. They should do the welcome home jumbo jump.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know. Like these teams love trading these picks. Then they can just put like they've acquired four third round picks and a second round picks. More bites at the apple, Bill. Um, So if we say the Lakers things for part two, what else jumped from the trade deadline for you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Of course not. That's a very mature version of us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I thought it was like, the more I stared at it, it was like 62 cents on the dollar for what they paid. I can't believe... Sohan or Vassell were not in the trade. And I don't know What the Bulls, the more I stared at the Bulls part of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, and then they played in the playoffs. I can't remember what he did against playoffs, but, um, I don't know. I'm sure they're trying to figure out Tatum and Brown, that's the mountain. Who's out there that's had some success against those guys? And then they're studying these hunter things. I just don't really understand it from a hawk's perspective.

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Every time they make a trade, you're always like, wait, what are they getting? And it just seems like now it's like, cool, we get Zach Collins for two years. And like, I just don't get them at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do we know that better deals were available earlier than this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. I think Golden State was trying to get him. before they went down the Butler Road. But I think that was sitting there. I thought he was the sneaky trade piece of this whole thing. His contract's bad, but it's not that bad. It's this year, next year, and then it's an expiring. He was playing great. I think I'd said this before, but he plays well against good teams, which I think matters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I don't know what to make of that Sacramento team. We talked about it earlier, but I just... You can tell me they're going to win 10 of their next 12. You can tell me they're going to lose 12 in a row. It's a weird team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A wise GM told me once, you always want to have six or seven dumb teams that you can trade with at any time in a 30-team league. Sacramento has just always managed to be one of those teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Kahn's running a team in France right now. We have 12 minutes left in the deadline. And so far, we're in Cody Zauer, Dennis Schroeder land.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But you have Nick Claxton and Cam Johnson still sitting there. The Nets, are they trying to stink or not stink?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, because they don't have their first round pick unless it's like, what is it, like top 10 protected? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Denver is my number one. I don't know what apron Denver's in, but they seem perfectly content to stay in that apron and not do anything. I was even wondering, like when Middleton got moved to Washington, would they try to make a move with Porter?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and use that Middleton contract, get one other, try to do like a three for one, something like that, and maybe jump on the chance to dump Porter somewhere. But Porter's actually been playing pretty well lately.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So it seems like he's there. Murray, they're already all in on. Jokic obviously isn't going anywhere. Gordon, they extended. And they just don't really have the flexibility. But if they do like the Zeke Nagy with Sarich, some swaps, second, third, and fourth round picks, and just, I don't know, what could you get for that?

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A couple YouTube chat questions as we wait for a trade. Daniel wants to know if we can discuss Butler's jersey retirement in Miami and whether that would happen. Who's retired over there? I'm already on the record.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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After Vince Carter's number got retired in New Jersey and Toronto, I think everyone is eligible now. Yeah. Especially Vince in Toronto. If that can happen, I'm fully prepared for Jimmy Butler in Miami. I think that should happen, but we'll see. It'll probably be after Pat Riley's dead. Maybe like 15 years from now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Russell Martin says Sacramento turning into the Bulls is so sad. This is disrespectful to Damanis Sabonis. It's not. They're better than the Bulls. They're the Bulls with Damanis Sabonis. Yeah. That's a meaningful difference.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A couple people are asking about KD. Katie to the Spurs? Katie to the Grizzlies? Katie to the Rockets?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What's the most interesting of those three?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was wondering how you were going to make this insulting for a second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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In the two out of every five games when Ja doesn't play for some reason. Is Ja not playing today? No, he's got bronchitis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But they're being very cautious. Should I be surprised when I put the Grizzlies on league pass and it's like, here's John Moran. He's playing tonight. He's like him and Joel Embiid. I can't believe you're on my TV.

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agenda is strong. My biggest regret is not voting for him as an all-star starter. I didn't have the balls. I wasn't strong enough And then Rosillo, of course, did it. And then I was super jealous of it. Because when you watch him, there's definitely an aggro Jaron Jackson this year. Especially in crunch time. They'll run offense like Bam out of bio style.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He'll bring the ball over midcourt and be telling people where to go. Drive at people too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So if the Rockets traded... I'm trying to think what the KD trade would be, but I think Van Vliet would have to be in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If it was like Van Vliet, Terry Eason... a bunch of picks and Phoenix just gets a reboot and then they get out from under, you know, the money stuff next year. I just, I wouldn't do, I'm not wavering from my, I wouldn't do anything if I'm the Rockets this year because I don't think they're winning the title. And I want to, I want to move into the summer and make a move with Jalen Green or Shingun.

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Come on, you're adding years to him. He's like 36, 35. Mahoney, where do you stand on KD right now as an impact guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was actually looking at this. I did a little, I actually did some homework for this pod because it's my job. I was looking at KD this year versus KD career. So his last 15 years from 2010 to this year, he's 28 a game. This year he's 27. He was seven rebounds for those 15 years. He's six this year. He's five assists. He's four this year. For those 15 years, 51%. He's 52 this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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39% for three, 40 this year. 7.6 free throw attempts for those 15 years. 6.1 this year. Yep. He's 91% of what he normally is. And the only slippage I really see is when I watch because he just looks a little creakier, stiffer than he used to be. He used to be like such a... One of the smoothest players in the league. He was so smooth. He's not... He's still smooth, but he's not like that.

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Is there anything else you've noticed?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Grizzlies trading Marcus Smart and a 25 first round pick to the Wizards in a multi-team trade that sends a couple second round picks to Memphis. Memphis creates roster flexibility and cap stuff with the move. We also have Sean saying Kevin Porter Jr. to the Bucs for Mahjong Bo Champ.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I've gone to a couple of Kevin Porter games where you watch and you're like, this guy's pretty good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can we talk about the smart thing though? So they trade smart, two first round picks. They trade two first-round picks. Basically, Porzingis for Smart is the trade, right? And Smart shows up and he's been banged up the entire time, which I think is... I tried to say this delicately when the trade happened. I think the Celtics felt like this car has a lot of miles on it.

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Let's sell a year too high than a year too late. And I wonder, because he's been expiring this year or next year? Can't remember. Let's find out. But he still feels like a playoff guy for me. And I remember the Lakers tried to get him a year ago. And I wonder if that ends up being a Laker possibility would be my guess. I'll find out as you guys talk. Marcus Smart, anything left in the tank?

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So I just looked it up. That pick's on protected that the Spurs have.

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Yeah, I don't know what's left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, yeah, with Marcus, whether there's anything left in the tank or not, as somebody who watched a lot of his career, most of his games that he played, just that style of play, you're just not aging nicely. All the fucking abuse that his body took, all the charges he took, all the big guys he had to go against, and... I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just want to get to the world where he's retired and he's the lead analyst with Drew Carter on Celtic Games. Maybe with Scal. We can keep Scal. But I think Marcus Smart will be an incredible... post-career local Celtic guy would be my hope.

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So it's not, you can't even call it a tank trade because what are they tanking for to give San Antonio a better pick? Yeah. And by the way, that pick... The Darren Fox thing, the more I think about it, unconscionable that Sacramento doesn't get that pick. They get two picks and they get this flimsy Charlotte pick that really turns into two seconds. Not real. You watched Darren Fox last night.

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So they did that weird thing with LaRavia where they didn't extend his option. So he was a free agent after the year. And then he started playing really well. And they kind of fucked it up. So the Kings got LaRavia.

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I like him. I was hoping the Celtics would get him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I wonder if there's... Now I'm starting to wonder if there's some KD potential.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that awesome two games with Booker where they scored like 90 points each game together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Hey guys, we have to end part one of the podcast, but we're staying on YouTube. Don't leave. We're just ending part one of the podcast, which will go up pretty shortly. All right, that's it for part one of the BS podcast. Remember, part two is coming pretty soon, right after the trade deadline. Thanks to Kyle Creighton, Gahow. and Saruti for producing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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As always, you can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. See you for part two. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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I'm just not trading him unless I get that Atlanta pick. Especially after Jalen Johnson goes out. It's like that might be... You know, somewhere between 7 and 10. You're giving me that pick if I'm trading De'Aaron Fox. Somehow San Antonio keeps it.

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But then you see what happened last night and you're like, this is why you get Darren Fox.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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You have this guy who's this really special, potentially generational player. He's in year two. We've seen the timetable of some of these guys goes way faster than we expect. Yeah. Now you had Fox. So Hunter, it was the 2023 playoffs when he played Boston and he basically put up 17 and six, 37%. But, um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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I always felt like, I'm not saying he shut down Tatum or Brown or anything like that, but I always felt like it's the 6'8 guys that are the guys that you want against us. So from a Cleveland standpoint, I just wonder if that game changed their mindset at all. But I like the trade from them. Big picture. So Butler happens yesterday, not quite worthy of an emergency trade. emergency trade pod.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Well, Tuesday night when it seemed like Durant might go to the Warriors and it was a three teamer with Butler going to Phoenix and whatever going to, that was emergency trade worthy. I was ready for that one. Yesterday with Butler after he sulked for four months and didn't want to go to Golden State.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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And then it was like, well, can we frame it as it's a two year extension, but it's really a one year extension because he was already in a contract. So you made an extra, I don't know, 61 million bucks, maybe 69 million bucks, whatever it is, to basically torpedo this Miami situation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Would you do that for $69 million was? Would you just completely torpedo a situation to Miami? So probably, yes, he would do it for less.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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How about six point nine million dollars?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Can I give you can I do a performance theater of how the Miami Phoenix trade talks went? We would love it. Just every couple of days. What about Beal for Butler? No, Durant we would do. Okay, we'll call you back three days later. Hey, Beal maybe for Butler? No, Durant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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And I think it just went on and on. And every time Miami's like, no, Durant. We're not taking Bradley Beal. Nobody wants Bradley Beal. And then they're telling Butler, no. we're not taking Bradley Beal. And Butler's like, well, I'm gonna act like even a bigger dick. Like, fine. We can just keep doing this. We're not trading you for Bradley Beal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Before Sunset.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Without the no trade clause, is he more tradable to you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Because you think you get him this season, you have him next season, you can trade him as an expiring. But with the no trade, you're stuck with him for three years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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You honestly cannot. One of my many hot takes of this two-part Trade Deadline podcast I think Bradley Beal's playing kind of well for the Suns. Have you watched him lately? Like he's actually playing defense and he's playing hard and seems dedicated. He's been trying. But I just don't want to pay him $50 million. It's not like he's a disaster.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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What do we say when they made the trade? We were like, this is stupid. This is too much money. Why are you doing this? We said it when Washington gave him the contract in the first place. Why are you doing this? This is too much money. Why'd you put the no trade clause in? This was a comedy of errors. And now Phoenix. So they made a trade. They did. They finally dumped Nurkic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Um, Nurkic, they used one of those three picks they got from that stupid trade they made with the 2031 first that they gave up that they're going to regret. And they got back. What was it? One of the Martins. They got back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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Moves around every year. Yeah. Uh, they got back a couple seconds cause everyone loves seconds now. Sure. Got to get those seconds. Get that 1 in 20 chance you might have gotten a player. It looks good in the tweet. 1 in 18 chance we maybe got a rotation guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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The sons are like somebody who remodeled their whole house and then built like a giant movie theater in the house. And then six months later, we're like, why did we do this movie theater? We should have done, bring the contractor back. We've got to change that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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That was the Nurkic, whatever that complicated DeAndre Ayton trade where they're like, we got to get out of the Chris Paul business. If we turn him and DeAndre Ayton into Nurkic and Beal and we do all these swaps that kill all of our leverage, we'll be fine. And then six months later, they're like, oh, fuck. Now what do we do? And they're just constantly working in their house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 1: NBA Trade Deadline Reactions With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre

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and they've just destroyed their house. Their house has no value left. They paid $10 million and put in $10 million for a house that's now worth $7 million.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Coming up, Ursula and I did a live show in Denver and you're about to listen to it next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you like our pods and our videos, please go check out the redesign for theringer.com because it's awesome. It was a long time coming. It's easier to read features and columns and pieces. It's easier to find your favorite writers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Es muss jemand sein, der in seinen Zwanzigern ist, der einen riesigen Lauf über die nächsten drei Jahre macht. Also, ich bin nicht... Wemby, hat er genug Zeit? So, you guys are gonna laugh, but the only guy I think could be in the running is my guy Jason Tatum. Yeah, I said it. I'm getting booed. Just if the Celtics won a bunch of titles, that's it. But I don't think that's gonna happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Right. That's why it's not gonna happen. Best center since Kareem is in play for him, too. But yeah, I was looking back at the... What else is in play?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I do. But I like it. You're keeping track. It's one of my things when I'm bored on an airplane when we haven't taken off it. I'm like, I think I'll work on the Pantheon. How many times have you ranked the top 20 players of all time in your life? I just did it four hours ago. He sent me the text. It's interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I mean, doing best player by decade isn't totally fair because sometimes people can peak starting in the middle of the decade or whatever. But if you go back, like 2010s is LeBron and Curry. And probably in that order. It's LeBron, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Wir haben 200.000 Dollar auf das für Million-Dollar-Picks-Bereiche gesetzt. Kommen wir auf die beste Woche, die wir jahrelang hatten. Wir haben 870.000 Dollar gewonnen. Out of our seven big bets, we hit six. And we're up 1.213 million fake dollars for the year. Doing pretty well this year. So we're going to throw 200k on Packers plus four and a half with love to throw for at least 200 yards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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He wouldn't be right. In 2000s, it's Duncan and Kobe. And that's a bloodbath argument that we're not going to have right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, I have Duncan, but other people would say Kobe. Um... 1990s ist MJ allein, es gibt keine andere Person in der Kombination. 80s ist Magic und Bird, 70s ist Kareem. Ist es Magic? Und 60s ist Russell Wilt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Kareem in den 70s, Russell Wilt in den 60s. Der Punkt ist, Jokic hat noch nicht wirklich einen Rival für die 2020s, was ich interessant finde. I guess it would be Giannis if he could... I think Giannis is the second best player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. Well, here's the problem. Dramatic pause. I think he's had the worst luck with teammates of any great player. If you're talking about the top 15. Never played with an NBA guy. Murray gets hurt. When he got hurt, cost two playoffs. Now he's got Murray and Porter taking up 40% of the cap. And I hate to say it, I hope he's not here. I doubt he is. But the owner was a fucking cheapskate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Spend some money. You have Nikoli Jokic on your team. You have one of the best 15 players of all time in his prime. Go into the second apron, motherfucker. So you have him 14th as of today? For all time? Yeah. I need to see how this plays out, but he is in the 9-13 range for me now. You could make an argument for him as the 9th best player of all time today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I'll give you the list. Just cause you guys all... Jordan first, cause he's the goat until I die. LeBron, Russell, Kareem, das wäre der Mount Rushmore, Magic Bird, Duncan, Wilt. Und dann ist es so, dass ich ursprünglich Curry, Kobe West hatte. Und dann Hakeem, Shaq, Moses und Jokic ist irgendwo in der letzten sechs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Aber wenn er einen vierten MVP gewinnt und er bringt das Denver-Team zu den Western-Finals oder besser mit dem, was wir gestern Abend gesehen haben, wo er nicht mehr aus dem Spiel kommen kann für zwei und eine halbe Minuten. Er konnte nicht rauskommen, um zu sagen, dass es Zeit ist, weil das Team kratziert war. Ich denke, er ist irgendwo in dieser Range.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Aber ich denke, für mich, als jemand, der meine ganze Leben Basketball gesehen hat, er macht das gleiche, was Bird of Magic macht. Und er hat es jetzt seit sechs, sieben Jahren gemacht. Siehst du, das ist das Ring-Counting-Ding.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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And the rest of the picks will be in the third podcast of the week tomorrow night. What you're about to listen to is me and Ryan Rosillo at the Fillmore in Denver in front of an awesome crowd. So glad we did this. If you want to hear two guys talk about Nikola Jokic for a couple of minutes, you've come to the right place. Marcelo and Simmons live from Denver next. First our friends from Pearl Jam.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Was passiert, wenn er, erinnere dich an Larry Bird, das eine Jahr, als er kam, ich glaube, es war die 87, 88.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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All of a sudden there was the big off-season storyline was Larry Bird has quit drinking beer and he's in phenomenal shape. And he showed up for the season. He had this follow-up two-hand dunk in a pre-season game. We're like, oh my God, the legend. He's in shape. And then he got hurt. I don't know if I believe the quit drinking beer part. Wahrscheinlich nicht.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Aber für mich hat Jokic es nicht wirklich geöffnet. Ich weiß nicht, was sein Off-Season-Change-Programm sein würde.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Ja, wir hatten einige seltsame Dinge gegen Shaq, wo er war, als er ein Rap-Album gemacht hat. Wir waren so, was macht er? Er machte Shazam oder Kazam, was auch immer das Film war. Wir waren so, was für ein Arschloch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Okay, letzte Section von Jokic-Porn. We were saying like, we try not to have biases, especially because we have votes for OMBA. And I like to think I'm level-headed, even like with the Celtics. Like I know in the Celtics. No, listen, let me talk this out. Right down the middle. Es gibt Saisonen, in denen ich sage, sie haben es nicht dieses Jahr. Etwas ist falsch. Ich mag es nicht.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Ich versuche, objektiv zu sein. Es ist wirklich schwer für mich, objektiv zu sein mit Jokic. Und ich denke, es ist auch du. Also was sind deine anderen echten Basketball-Biasen, die du erwarten kannst? Willst du zurück und forth gehen?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. Like if the Celtics can't win, I would hope that he would be the one that won. Would be my bias.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ja, es war sehr ähnlich wie der John Elway Superbowl. Oh, ich habe vergessen, wir sind in Denver. Der John Elway Superbowl. Aber John Elway war wie diese Stats. Er konnte es nicht machen. Er konnte ein Team auf den Prezips drücken, aber nicht. Und dann hat er plötzlich gewonnen und wir haben es noch nie wieder gesprochen. Und Curry war das gleiche.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Es war wie, ah, er hatte Duran und das eine Jahr 2015, alle Kavs wurden verletzt. Und es gab immer eine Entschuldigung. Jetzt gibt es keine Entschuldigung. The NBA hit the quarter mark of the season and FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook, wants you to catch all the action. They're trying to help you. Right now, FanDuel, giving everyone three months of NBA League pass.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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All you have to do is place any $5 bet on the NBA. You can jump in on the NBA Cup because we know that's coming in a couple days. I like Houston over Golden State. They're minus three and a half. I just think that's a bad matchup for Golden State. I'll tell you something else. I kind of like Houston to win the NBA Cup, but plus 700. I think they can hang with all these teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Anyway, next time you get a hunch on who's going to win or how many points a player will score, you can watch your picks come to life live by visiting fanduel.com. You can get three months of NBA League Pass courtesy of FanDuel. Make every moment more with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA. You must be 21 plus and president in select states or 18 plus and president in DC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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After a three-month free trial, the full price of League Pass will be automatically charged monthly. Cancel anytime, no refunds. Terms, restrictions and embargoes apply. Limit one pass per customer. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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My first bias that I'll admit won't be a surprise to interview hates a strong word with sports. I was like the word sports hate. I don't actually hate anything. So it's in the context. I hate the Lakers. I just Ich denke, es ist gesund. Ich denke, es ist eine gute Sache. Ich denke, es sollten Teams sein, die du nicht magst. Und Teil davon sind ihre Fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Sie haben gut angefangen, die ersten paar Wochen. Und ihre Fans haben super schmerzhaft darüber gesprochen, wie wir den Untergang genommen haben. Sie haben heute um 40 verloren. Maybe like 41. But it's just more fun for me personally when they're not doing well. And I might be a bad person. I can apologize.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, they have good, passionate fans. I gotta hand it to them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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The Lakers panic trade would be really fun. Like if they talked themselves into, you know, Zach Levine's contract, something like that, just like taking more money on to try to save. But I think they know. I think they're so bad on defense. They're one of the top four worst defenses in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I should have worked out today. I feel scrawny. Thanks for coming out. Thank you to State Farm, because I always forget to thank them before we start this stuff. Oh, and Starry. Thank you to Starry. Here's how this show happened. I texted Brasilo and I said, Jokic is playing Golden State in the NBA Cup game on a Tuesday. Live show? And he was like, fuck yeah. Why do you love Denver so much?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Okay. Okay. Rassel und ich haben eine ziemlich große Scoot-Position. Und leider leben wir in der Ära, in der Leute einfach Klips aus deinem Video-Podcast ausbrechen können und dann dich mit ihnen über die nächsten 2-20 Jahre zerstören. Und wir hatten einige ziemlich passionierte Pro-Scoot-Takes während des Drafts. Und sie sind nicht gut aufgewachsen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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So you don't think like eight years from now we'll be in Portland doing a scoot porn intro to our live podcast? Probably not ruling that out. We probably get the venue now. Tickets are available.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Ja, fortsetzen sie. Wir haben viel getextet während der Zeit, und die Sixers haben viele Boxen beobachtet, die ich sagen würde, ich würde sie Rassilo Triggerboxen nennen. Der Typ sagt nur offensichtlich, dass es jetzt alles um April geht und nicht mehr Back-to-Back spielen. Die off-season Workout Sachen. Victory lapping before we've seen the team yet is one that will trigger you from time to time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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We don't value durability enough when we talk about players. It's one of my big lessons of the 2020s. That's why Boston is so good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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They take it seriously. They want to show up. They play back to back. Quick biases for me. I want Seattle to have an NBA team again. And I'll root for that team. Und nach dem, was du gerade gesagt hast, wenn du nicht in Form bist, ist es wirklich schwer für mich, dich so viel zu lieben. Und ich fühle mich so an wie Luca.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Nein, nicht du. Aber ich fühle mich einfach so, als wenn diese Leute den Geld machen, den sie machen. Es wäre schön, wenn du in der Off-Saison gearbeitet hättest. Das scheint mir nicht verrückt zu sein. Richtig? Es ist dein Job. Was seltsam ist, denn Ben Simmons arbeitet mehr als jeder. Richtig. My other bias is quickly, I still defend Kevin Durant, I don't know why.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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It's like being in a bad marriage, like he flies out the window on social and I'm like, you don't understand, he was upset they lost last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I have two more biases. What do you have before? Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Well, one of them is yours too. I hate heliocentric basketball. I'm just never going to like it. I'm just not. And I really respect what Harden and the Clippers are doing this year. It's way better than I thought. Their overrunner was 37.5. It was almost a lock for me. And he's playing great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just don't personally like watching it that much. Und das wird sich nicht ändern. Und dann meine letzte Frage ist, ich will, dass Jordan der Goat bleibt. Und ich fühle mich einfach so, als wäre er der Beste. Und die Jahre passen und die Leute vergessen. Und ich denke, er levitiert immer noch über jeden, den ich in Person gesehen habe. Auch Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, he asked us when the Sunday pod was coming back. I was fired up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you don't know who Tyler Ford is, he looks a lot like Jim from The Town, which is one of the reasons Ursula loves him. It's also a plus. Because he looks like he's going to at any time say, who's cow we taking? All right, new gimmick here. We're moving out of Jokic porn. We're moving to what we're calling the worry scale, where I'm going to list some topics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You were having fun the first 30 minutes. I didn't want to lose the crowd, but he might be coming up at some point. The worry scale, 1-10. Curry ever getting a fifth title, 1-10, how worried are you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ich bin ein 9 aus 10. Ich weiß nicht, wie sie es mit diesem Warriors Team machen. Ich weiß nicht, wie sie es auch machen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Glaubst du, Lejko ist einfach... Ich muss sagen, ich glaube nicht, um das Publikum zu verletzen, aber ich glaube nicht, Jokic wird jemals auf Denver sein. I don't think Curry will ever not be on Golden State. And I honestly don't think Tatum will ever not be on Boston. I think those are the three that I see staying whole career. Luka is an interesting one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then friendship lost out to the ocean. I think that people in Denver, every time I'm here, they're disarmingly nice. That's what I notice over and over again. I'm like, oh man, people are just nice here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just think those would be my three, if I had to pick three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Next Warrior Scale. Houston fucking up this cool Rockets roster that we love. How worried are you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So the Rockets, they're in the NBA Cup, they play Golden State. And I think they're 7-1 on FanDuel to win it. I think they're a pretty live bet. I watched their OKC game on Sunday, the next day, because it was against football. And it reminded me a lot of Minnesota last year, where nobody wanted to say that Minnesota was ready in December, January, but they kind of were.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it was like, wow, this would be soon. And then it just kept going. And I think Houston... Das ist so, wie ich mich fühle, wenn ich sie sehe. Sie sind so gut defensiv und sie sind so athletisch und sie haben so viele verschiedene Lineups, dass sie einfach ein Scheiß zu spielen sind.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That game, if you guys didn't see it, you ever see those Instagram videos when the two cats are fighting? And it's just like amazing to watch how athletic the cats are. And you're like, oh my God. Wow, they just jumped off a table.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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But they were just so young and athletic. It was a treat to watch. Next worry scale. Townsend, New York. I was probably an 8 before the season. I think I'm like a 2 now. Seems like they like him. And he's playing really well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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So maybe that's what happens when you trade for Karl-Anthony Towns.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Also, wir werden versuchen, eine Version des Pods zu machen, die wir am Sonntagabend machen würden. Denn wir haben dieses Jahr keinen Sonntagabend gemacht. Wir sollten warten, bis die Fußball-Saison vorbei ist. Wir haben viel Basketball-Stuff zu sprechen. Aber der echte Grund, warum wir hier sind, lasst uns ehrlich sein. Russel und ich lieben beide Nicole Jokic. Wir werden es nicht verstecken.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

2751.84

Ant-Minnesota-Warriors-Scale. Ich bin etwa 8,5. Das Team, der Körper-Language-Doktor, mag nicht, was er mit Minnesota sagt. Und dann hat Ant es ausgesprochen. Ant hatte diese Pressekonferenz danach. Er war so, wir sind alle zu negativ. Wir machen alle unsere eigenen Dinge. Es war wirklich ein bisschen verrückt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Last year, it really felt like they had an identity. I knew what it was. I didn't know if it was going to translate to winning four playoff rounds, but there was something unique about them. Ich weiß nicht, wenn ich sie schaue, ich weiß nicht, sie scheinen wie ein anderes Team zu sein. Naja, zumindest hatten sie die Defense. Sie wussten, dass sie sich darauf verlassen könnten.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Sie konnten Jokic auswählen, wie auch jeder. Niemand nimmt sie aus, aber sie waren zumindest, du weißt, große Jungs. Sie hatten einen echten Effekt darauf und sie konnten Jalen und Jason schützen, wie auch jeder. Jetzt ist es, ich weiß nicht, ich sehe es nicht. Ich denke nicht, dass es besser wird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Wo ist Randall für dich auf Jungs, die du nicht spielen möchtest, Basketball mit vier Stunden pro Woche spielen? Oh man, I'm on Julius' team? Fuck. Oh, he saw me. He's waving me over.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Right. Like, there you go, if you miss it. I had this coming up later, but I'm glad you're bringing it up now. This became that one clip went around that was like two minutes of terrible Lakers-Suns-Threes. It was bad. You guys must have seen that, right? And it was just terrible three, terrible three. And people were like, this is basketball now. And I'm watching it because... I'm old.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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And I'm like, you guys don't understand how bad the 90s were. Like watching Bobby Philz trying to post up whoever, watching Anthony Mason trying to split a double team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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And how slow it was. Remember that Cleveland team with Brevin Knight? Were they Fratello, like his whole goal? No, remember he slowed it down? und versucht, 65 Field Goals pro Spiel zu haben. Es gibt 90.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Nein, jemand im Hintergrund ist wie, endlich, Brevin Knight ist... Nein, aber ich dachte, das Clip hat gefehlt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

295.652

Wir lieben, wie der Typ spielt. Er ist ungefähr so vertraut, wie es von der Unternehmensseite her ist. Nicht nur Sport, Musik, Filme, TV. Ich glaube, Succession kam zu diesem Punkt für mich. Succession-Episode. Ich wusste nur, dass es ein guter Episode sein wird. Wir lieben einfach Jokic. Und wir wollten uns mit 1100 Leuten befinden, die auch Jokic lieben.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Somebody did a study about how much more running there is now. I just think basketball... It's way harder to play basketball now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Ja, wir haben eine Liga, in der jemand versucht, den vierten MVP zu gewinnen. Und er schießt 52 Prozent auf drei und ist Tennis-Assist und er ist im Zentrum. Die Leute sind so, das ist schrecklich. Und jeder vergesst die Mitte der 2000er, als wir... Eigentlich war es wie eine Krise mit dem Geschwindigkeit des Spiels und so viel es zu sehen hat, dass sie die Regeln verändern mussten.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Nächster Punkt für die Worry Scale. Wir müssen es einfach mit übernehmen. Jamal Murray. Hör auf, wir sind alle Freunde hier. Lass uns das erzählen. Ich will nicht, dass das wie die Intervention der Sopranos ist, wo jemand mich beurteilt. Lass uns das erzählen. Jamal Murray, how worried are you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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So we decided. No, that was a game. Doesn't have it right now or doesn't have it anymore. Right. Are two separate things. Right. But you said right now because he looks slow. It doesn't look like he's in the same shape.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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He does. He just looks creaky. I want my guys to walk around the court. Guys making 40 million a year with their chests out. I just was worried. I left the game thinking, that guy doesn't seem 100% healthy to me. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but that was what I saw.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Das ist der Grund, warum dieses erste Segment Jokic-Porn genannt wird. Wir haben es nur gebornt. Wir haben kein Slideshow für das, oder? Oh mein Gott. Wir waren gestern hinter der Scores-Tafel und er kam auf und wir waren nur ein bisschen an ihm überrascht. Wir waren so, guck dir den Mann an. Oh Mann, das ist unglaublich. Wo willst du anfangen? Willst du mit Noten von gestern Abend anfangen?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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It's not like I have my own CBS show where I'm like the mentalist. Would you turn it down? That sounds great. Here are the two things I noticed that he used to have. Elevator pitch. Doesn't seem to have the same way. When he's going coast to coast and he's going fast and he's got the defender on his hip. He always had like a little super blast where he could get ahead of that guy and get his shot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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And he doesn't seem like he totally has that yet. And then he has that little, where he goes to his right, that little 12-footer, the Chris Paul shot, which always used to go in and was like his kind of, like that was his shot. und es geht nicht mehr rein und es sieht nicht so aus, als hätte er den selben Lift. Das ist das, was ich persönlich gesehen habe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Wir werden sehen, ob es fix ist, aber es ist hier die Nuggets. Dein Boden hängt davon ab, was mit ihm in den nächsten vier Monaten passiert, weil du weißt, was du mit den anderen Jungs hast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Jim Harbaugh und John Harbaugh are brothers. What Russell Wilson won. Did you just yell Russell Wilson? Trying to throw us off. I'm an 8.5 for Jamal Murray for word. Put me down as a 6.5. He's too young. You're always conservative with this. I'm always more panicky and you're more conservative. Yeah. And be George Philly just as a group. Removing all your whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Well, the thing is, they only have to be like the ten seed. That could be 34 wins. With Maxi, George, Embiid, Yabusele, and McCain.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Here's why 8.5 might be low, because Embiid was in the Olympics, looked slow, looked creaky. Do his walk. That one would be tough. I don't know if I could do that one. Dann vor der Saison ist es so, wir nehmen es leicht mit ihm, aber er macht es gut. Seine Knie sind gut. Ich habe die Extension eingestellt. Das war eine rote Flagge. Ich war so, warum hat er diese Extension so schnell genommen?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Das war seltsam. Dann war es die ESPN, die von Bontemps geschrieben hat, die große Feature über ihren ganzen Masterplan. Es geht alles um April, Mai und Juni. Ich war so, das ist seltsam. Warum sagen sie uns das? Und dann plötzlich Embiid. Not playing tonight. It's like, ah, the season started. That seems like a problem. And then he played. He looked terrible. Then he got hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Oh, he got in a fight with the reporter. Not the fight, but the shoving thing. And then I saw today, another red flag. Embiid is ramping up. What does that mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Willst du in die große Bildung gehen? Wo willst du hin?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

3454.8

Like if my son's grades, if I'm like, hey, Ben, how are your grades? And he's like, yes, I'm ramping up. But how are your grades? As long as you're ramping up. Like, how's it going with the ladies? I'm ramping up. So you're single. Lamello Ball, worry scale. Where are you? Really high. You're high. He's averaging 30 a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I've made this joke before and I'm going to make it again. His destiny might be social media 15 years from now with clips of people saying, LaMelo Ball was a problem. And just like a one-minute highlight tape of crazy shots he made. And that's where we land. We'll see. Next one. Worry Scale. A Stringer-Avon situation with Franz and Paolo when Paolo comes back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Are they going to be in the balcony together? Franz is like, this is kind of my team now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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It certainly helped Franz. Yeah, because he Olympics wasn't great for start of the season wasn't great. The Cavs series people were acting like he sucked. I was one of them. No, it's good. Orlando's on my radar. I'm the most worried about the Cavs in the East, obviously, because I think they're really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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But I think I'd put Orlando next for teams I'm worried about, because if Franz keeps up this... For Boston or in general? For Boston. If Franz keeps this up... The Boston threats are Cleveland, Orlando to you? I think Orlando because of the defense and because if Franz can be the second guy that you never know who's going to have the 35 point game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I'm not as I just can't be as scared of Milwaukee with the with not knowing what I'm getting from Middleton. I just don't know if we're ever seeing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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And the Knicks are honestly just not good enough defensively. It's never worked. Once you get to round three, round four, you have to be able to get stops. And I don't know if they can. Next one, worry scale. LeBron going 89 Kareem on us as this year goes along.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Also war es 36 Jahre her, war die Farewell Tour-Saison. Kareem war erstaunlich. Ich meine, er hatte eine der am meisten erstaunlichsten Karrieren in jedem Sport. Er war die Finals-MVP, glaube ich, in 71 und 85. In 87 riefen sie den größten Spiel des Spiels für ihn. In Spiel 4 hat er es gemacht. Er wurde verabschiedet. 88. Pistons-Serie, der größte Spiel der gesamten Serie. Sie riefen für ihn.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Er war 42. Er war ein wunderschöner, älterer Spieler, aber er war natürlich alt. Und dann plötzlich 1989. Es war grimm. Es war schlecht. Und LeBron, er hat heute 29 gespielt. Offensiv kann er es immer noch machen. Die Defense ist... Man kann es nicht mal Defense nennen, weil er es nicht spielt. Also ist er im Grunde genommen ein DH... In Basketball. Und du spielst immer noch Pick-Up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Und ich denke, du hast viel Freude in deinem Pick-Up. Ich... Du versuchst herauszufinden, wie man von dem verurteilt wird. Ich hatte einen Renn- und Pick-Up, als ich in meinen frühen 40ern war, wo ich wirklich versucht habe, es zu halten. Und dann fängt man endlich an, all diese Tricks zu lernen, um in einem Pick-Up-Spiel zu überleben, wenn man alt ist.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Look, I can tell when somebody's trying to conserve their energy at a basketball court.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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You know what I mean though. I know exactly what you mean. You're supposed to be my friend on stage and now you're undermining me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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No, but you know what I mean though. I do know what you mean.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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But now they have Austin Reeves and Connect out there, too. And it's like, ah... Und D'Angelo Russell. Und D'Angelo Russell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I guess my reaction is based on the dialogue about him heading into the season. And all the people in the media were like, he's still a top five guy. The answer is no. Where do you have him in your top 100? He was not in the top 20. Whoa, that seems low. I'm sorry, I like defense. Do you have Rudy 3? Next worry scale. You still have worries? I have one more. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I'm always nervous when I have a good owner and now I don't know what I'm getting with the next owner. I'm just going to naturally be nervous about that. So I'm like a seven. What if the next guy comes in and it's like a A-Rod-Mark-Laurie-Situation? Like, hey, we gotta trade towns. We gotta trade towns. He's too expensive. Like, that's the shit that's happening. What if it's John Henry?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Those guys have won. We're moving on. I'm gonna save rather have right now because I want to get to your top five movie TV girlfriends. I asked Ursula. We're going to break up the hoop of the little pop culture. Five movie TV girlfriends that when you watch the show or the movie, you were like, I'm in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

412.451

Ich habe schon eine tolle Zeit. Ich glaube, das Wahre an diesem Jahr ist, dass er sich irgendwie besser gemacht hat. Ich meine, er hat schon drei MVP's und einen Titel gewonnen. Sieh, ich hab's dir gesagt, wir werden das mit Jokic verbreiten. Und ich glaube, das Beste, mein Freund hat es beschrieben, und ich werde es von ihm stehlen, wo Jokic immer Chess gespielt hat, als er da war, richtig?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

4255.17

Er ist ein Johnny. Warte, noch eine Frage. Ja. Was war das DM zu Megan Margo? War es wie, was ist geschlagen? How are you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Slideshow would have been good. My moment for that was the Charlie's Angels Hawaii episode. Ich habe gesagt, ich bin nur eine andere Person.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Er war immer zwei, drei Bewegungen vorhanden. Er war einfach so klug. Es war immer so bemerkenswert, wie er einfach das Spiel verarbeitet hat. Aber dann Minnesota. Boo. Minnesota threw some stuff at him, right? They were like, yeah, we're actually fine with you taking those threes. We're gonna beat you up. We're just gonna throw big guys at you. We're gonna try to wear you down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Ich meine, wir brauchen sie nicht. Es ist nur ein Gewinn.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Should we tell the story about when we met? Yeah, because that guy... That guy would have loved the Blake Lively character.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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So we met. Do you remember it? Well, it was the first great Celtics moment in nine years. It was the playoff game against the Nets, Game 3, where they were down like 25. Came back, really ugly game, but really fun. Everyone was just so happy. The Celtics had a nice, happy playoff moment. Literally, nine years is forever. It was a day game. Und alle sind rausgegangen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Und es war einer von diesen drunken, drunken, drunken Boston-Tagen. Und da habe ich Rosillo getroffen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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And now this season it feels like he's moved into this speed chess mode. Where it's not just chess. He's now solving stuff instantaneously and watching him in person last night. I mean, Golden State was like, you're not doing the thing you always do. We're not giving you 14 assists tonight. We're gonna take away everybody else and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Das war auch ein tolles Spiel. That was the Paul Pierce over here. I knew it was a playoff game from back then. Are you sure it wasn't that night? I think I might be right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

4650.821

This is great. It's like one of those movies where it's two different stories.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Das ist, was passiert, wenn du alt bist. Du hast diese Erinnerungen und dann morphen sie in eine andere Erinnerung.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

47.649

It's really easy to find your favorite shows and videos and some good sorting stuff. Hey Million Dollar Picks. So, I am going to do a podcast after Packers Lions tomorrow night. So that we are ending up doing three episodes this week. The one today right now that you're listening to. And then

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

4724.473

I think I would rather have Embiid, too. What's the Kawhi argument? My Clippers guy was telling me Kawhi's coming back before Christmas. I think he's ramped up. He's ramped up, ready to go, but... Das Embiid-Ding fühlt sich nicht so an, als wäre es ein guter Ort. Gib mir den besten Fall für die Embiid-Situation. Er kommt zurück. Er sagt, du weißt, die Team-Meeting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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You're going to have to do the thing you hate to do, which is score a lot. And he's like, all right, fine, fuck. And ends up with 38. He's six for seven in the fourth quarter, makes all the big shots. But I just feel like he's solving stuff faster. Does that make sense?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ich habe wirklich ein bisschen Soul-Search gemacht. Er muss den Duncan-Modell folgen. Er muss leichter werden. Okay, aber das wird nicht dieses Jahr sein. Zion oder Trey?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Well, that was here, right? Should we have done the live show at Shotgun Willys? I know a guy. Apparently, yes. Jesus. See, I had Ja. Ja, Halliburton.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I guess the question for me is... Who knows? Maybe I could take a couple lessons. If they could get out of the Zion contract after this year, do you do it? Is a question I can't believe we're even asking, but I think it's a serious question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Next, I'd rather have Bo Nix or Jaden Daniels. I agree, but can you believe this is an argument? Bo Nix looks like Drew Brees. It's like Peyton has just sprinkled Drew Brees Kool-Aid all over him for eight weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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Außer es ist nicht, weil es Drake May werden wird. Hey, ich werde fucking weg. Drake May is amazing. I'll say this with Knicks. I watched that Jets game. What do you have? 60 yards in the bad weather and the Jets kicker missed the field goal and the Broncos somehow won. It was before the Broncos turned the season around. And it looked like he was going to be like out of the league in three weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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And you watched the guy the last couple of weeks. Und er sieht einfach komplett legit aus. Er kann jeden Schuss machen. Er rennt um. Er macht zwei Fehler. Aber ich mag seine Führung. Ich mag, dass er mit dem anderen Team kämpft. Er beginnt, mit dem defensive Lineman zu schreien. Das Max Crosby Highlight. Er hat es einfach. Ich glaube, er hat es. Ich glaube, er hat Charisma. Ich mag ihn.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

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I don't know what the ceiling is. And I know he's like 25 and maybe this is the ceiling already. But he's he's he's an average to above average starting quarterback. I'm serious.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, he came into an incredible spot, too, which can't be understated, right? Like, Sean Payton is like, I'm taking this guy 12th. I'm making this work. I'm going to turn him into a QB. This is all I care about. And it actually happened. I also thought it was... He's going to be in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5074.67

Matherin or Peyton Pritchard? Let's just say I handed in a ringer 100 top players list.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5081.192

Oh, not only did I, I put him in the 80s. Er ist unglaublich. Er ist der beste Benchmann der Liga.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5106.394

Und zum anderen, ich habe mich gestorben am anderen Tag und ich war so, Pritchard ist weg, Mann, schau es dir an. Und er hatte so 29. I can't believe you're not in on this. He's been the best bench guy in the league. It's 20 games. 80th best player in the NBA. It's a 350 player league. It's in the top quarter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5138.312

How about Tatum or SGA? SGA. The advanced stuff is like... You used to be on the Tatum side of that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5214.564

Listen, I had SGA over him. I thought the last month Tatum played was the best I've seen him play on both ends. Everything he's doing, I just feel like he's gotten to another level. His shot, he fixed it. Rebounds, he plays hard every night. I just think it's harder to find 6-9 guys than guards. Is he East Coast Jokic? No, I would never say that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5253.15

I think that would be a fun one for road trip. Jordan Poole. On my basketball team, probably Draymond Green. Dinner? Interesting. Maybe Draymond. Draymond, definitely. Might have a couple good stories. Yeah. How about Otani or Connor McDavid?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5304.019

You've heard me. Did you say any of these things about Mac Jones? Comparing him to rookie Mac Jones is insane. He's so much better than Mac Jones. Mac Jones had a good first three months. He was good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5324.08

Es waren 2001-Brady-Vibes. Das ist das, was ich gesagt habe. Game-Manager-Vibes. Ich liebe das immer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5370.674

I'm not giving up. I'm an optimistic guy. We'll see. Okay. Team's playing well. How about this one? Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh? Wow, a lot of Harbaugh's.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5392.014

Give me Harbaugh. I think I would take Harbaugh too. But I think Payton's done a really good job with the Broncos. Jamal Murray or Dame Lillard?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5448.537

I would take Jamal because I feel like there's another level to where he can get to where Dame is, where he is now at the age he's at and who he is. Dame's a much worse foul baiter too. It drives me crazy. Roger Goodell or Adam Silver?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

545.902

I haven't seen him in Denver. I've seen him obviously all over the place, but not here. He did two things last night. You know, you can pick up most of it on TV. One of the things was, he was just trying to read what Golden State was going to do from what Kerr was telling his players.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5494.013

That's well put. I think if I was an owner, I would rather have Goodell. As a human being, I would rather have Adam Silver. But if it's somebody to run my business, like right now, like, uh, cause Paramount got bought, the NFL has it out in their deal. And you just know Goodell is going to be like fucking Tony Soprano with it. Like, Er sagt, du wirst uns mehr bezahlen. Und so wird es aussehen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

559.908

So he would like run down and he'd be in the paint on the Golden State side, just watching Kerr, what he was saying, what he was flashing. And then he was yelling to his teammates, they're running 5-3. And Kerr would be like, what the fuck? Like, you're cheating! He was getting mad. But he was calling out all their plays, everything they were doing with Curry, which has been a recurring theme.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5599.917

I wondered that as well. And then I was so excited. There was a Black Friday game. I was like, hey, apparently they could have the NFL every day of the week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5607.645

Three Thanksgiving games. I was like, wait, the Raiders are playing. I get to watch Aiden O'Connell against a Chiefs team that doesn't care.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5642.844

Ja. I don't have to watch this. I think they've done a better job with the Thursday schedule this year. Thursday's schedule is way better. It's Packers-Lions on Thursday. That's the other thing the NFL does.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5673.612

I'll say this. It really bothered me that the NBA got rid of Thanksgiving games and that they're so scared of the NFL now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5698.315

Jeder war einfach so furchtbar von ihnen. Aber ich dachte, die NBA, ich dachte, es wäre schön, diese zwei zu haben. Und stattdessen haben sie 15 Spiele am Dienstag. Du kannst nicht sehen, du weißt, du kannst nicht alle auf dem gleichen Tag sehen. Und ich weiß nicht, ich fühle mich, als wären sie zu weit weg. Sie haben schon den TV-Deal. Es klingt wie, oh, die Ratings sind runter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5716.847

Die Leute haben immer geliebt, das mit der NBA zu tun. Die Ratings sind runter. Nun, wer kümmert sich? Sie haben nur einen 11-Jährigen-Deal gesandt. Glaubst du, sie geben einen Scheiß? They got the money already. So put more games on times when I want to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5738.245

No, I'm just like when it became like a thing about, oh, ratings are down 12%. I was like, all right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5782.192

Can I pass up both? I got one more for you. Yellowstone or Landman?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

579.14

So that was one. The other one, they're up two. There's like, what, 16 seconds left. They're playing keep away. And he gets the ball at the top of the key. Normally when a guy gets it, Sie lassen es entweder wieder raus oder drücken es raus. Sie wissen, dass sie verletzt werden. Und er war so, oh, sie werden mich verletzen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5838.398

Landman is unbelievable. It's Billy Bob Thornton clearing out LaMelo and the Charlotte Hornets style. He's just like, can I shoot 35 times today? And Taylor Sheridan's like, you can. And Ali Larder comes in and she's like, can I just be like a way crazier Varsity Blues older person version of that? He's like, absolutely.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5861.465

Und dann sind sie so, sollen wir Sachen mit der Tochter machen, die ein bisschen unangenehm sind mit älteren Charakteren auf dem Show? Und Taylor Sheridan ist so, fertig. Und dann fliegen Dinge immer wieder auf. Es ist großartig.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5883.216

Aber ich würde nicht sagen, ich weiß nicht, über Episode 4. Ich hätte nicht erwartet, dass du das tust. Das wäre eigentlich eine tolle Freundschaft. The funniest thing is... Did you realize you peaked? The funniest thing is Demi Moore is in this show. Good for her. I actually like what Sheridan... Sheridan's casting is awesome. Let me finish. She doesn't have any lines. Oh, I haven't watched it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

5907.179

I think she's had like five lines in four episodes, but they make it seem like she's in it. But she's kind of like Joel Embiid on The Sixers, where it's like, he's not playing again. So I don't know whether they were doing her a favor or she couldn't be for the first five episodes or what's going on. Here's the deal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

593.487

Ich werde eigentlich vorwärts fliegen, in diesen Kerl fahren und sehen, ob ich einen 3-Punkt-Play bekommen kann. Ich glaube nicht, dass ich jemals jemanden gesehen habe, der es so schnell durchführt hat. Also zwei kleine Dinge. Aber wir sind weg. Wir waren einfach beamen. Wir wussten nicht, was wir tun sollten. Wir waren so, das war unglaublich. Es war wie das Chris-Farley-Show mit Paul McCartney.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6019.289

Es ist großartig. Also, du hast Succession gebildet. Ich habe Sopranos gebildet. Und äh, ich muss vielleicht, ich, ich, ich habe die volle Runde gemacht. Mhm. Ich habe angefangen und wie Ritter am Ende von der vierten Saison, ging bis zum Schluss, weil es ein Marathon gab. Ich bin so, okay, ich will weiterhelfen. Und ich bin bis zum Ende gekommen und ich war so. Saison eins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6039.813

Und dann, jetzt bin ich, und meine Frau ist jetzt einfach furchtbar. Sie ist so, was? Echt wieder? Du hast das nur zwei Jahre ago gemacht. Also vielleicht muss ich die Verbindung wechseln. Because I feel the same way about The Sopranos that you do about Succession, where I can just watch the same episode over and over again and just learn, find new things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6062.948

AJ got food. That doesn't seem very nice. Well, let's end with this. How many cities could you have actually lived in? And I mean actual cities. They can't be like, you can't say off the beaten path. Cities that have to have at least one sports team. How many could you have lived in? You have to have at least one professional sports team. Yeah, Hartford's out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6113.513

I just got that one. For me, Boston and LA, which I've already done. I absolutely could live here. I really like it here. What about San Antone? Texas, I'm out. Chicago? The extreme weather, I'm out. That's why I love Boston. Seattle, if they had an NBA team, I'd really consider it. And that's about it. It would take a lot to get me to leave LA. On Thanksgiving, it was 70 degrees.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6159.415

I didn't say NBA. You could have any team. No, because I think... Because some people are like, Nashville's getting momentum now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6187.685

So you'd have the boat in St. Barts? I don't know, I would live there. But you'd have YouTube TV?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6201.901

This would all lead to you disappear. And we do like an eight episode ringer podcast. Well, there was a thing about what happened to you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6225.169

What was the shortest amount of time where you decided that you were flying somewhere else? that wasn't in this country and then you were actually going on the plane.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6311.576

Do you tell people when you're like all of a sudden on your way to some country? Are there five people you're like, hey, just FYI, I'm going to be in Spain for a while?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6348.674

Du warst so, Scoot Hennerson bekommt zehn Prozent. Du bekommst 40. 5% T-Yoke, so you can buy another horse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6362.36

And he won't need any of my money. Last thing, what's your prediction for the Denver Nuggets this season? How many rounds?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6379.053

Wenn man sich die Kontrakte anschaut, muss es Porter sein.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6397.073

Well, the other thing is it's harder to make trades now, which I didn't... I'm still kind of figuring out the machinations, because we got to get ready for when we start doing fake trades in about a month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6410.155

But even also just matching the contracts and being like, no, no, you actually can't do that, because you're over this apron, so you can only... It's... I didn't get into sports to actually have to figure out fucking math. I'll tell you that much. And it's the most confusing it's ever been, but like even... Du siehst ihn und denkst dir, warum haben sie Michael Porter für Zach Levine getradet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6429.174

Das wäre ein interessanter Vertrag, oder? Und er sagt, nein, du kannst nicht, weil dann musst du ihm Zeke Nagy geben. Es ist ein Hypothetiker. Ein paar Porter-Fans, oder?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6459.753

Well, how many West teams do you really like? Because for me, it's like assuming Czech comes back, which we have no idea. OKC is the only one I feel great about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6479.082

I'm trying to think of a single team in the West that would be psyched to see Jokic. I'm going to say the answer is zero. But OKC would be, you know, they're just like, take your 40. We'll take out everybody else. We have a way better team than you. And that would be a really tough one. Also würde ich OKC haben und dann denke ich einfach nur TBD.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6500.63

Ich mag Phoenix und wir waren großartig bei ihnen in den Over-Unders und Durant wird schon zweimal gehört. Wenn sie zusammen sind, sind sie wirklich gut. In Dezember. Ja, aber es könnte einer sein. Eines der Dinge, die ich mit dieser Saison nachdenke, ist einfach, ob wir auf diese Mitte der 30er-Jahre zu viel zahlen. Forget about LeBron, the age he's at.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6519.191

But even Curry 36, Durant in the 2007 draft, on and on. And we see the best case version of them when they're actually playing. But the season's too fucking hard now. All these teams are good. The style of play is really hard to play. Flying up and down. Then you got four playoff rounds. It's like maybe...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6539.019

Somebody like Curry, how realistic is it that he could get through a season like this where he's carrying the burden he's carrying and then win four straight playoff rounds? No way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6554.963

Two years ago, or two and a half years ago, they barely got there and they got a lot of luck, but I just wonder if this is the year where it's like Boston, Cleveland, OKC, these young, talented, hungry teams. And it's just, those are going to be the three. I think Cleveland's in the conversation though. I believe in them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6599.169

Who booed? I thought you guys all hated Minnesota. They knocked you out last year. There's a lot of transplants in Denverville. I do not like the body language or the ball movement on the Minnesota Timberwolves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6614.368

I don't like the dueling banjos. Your turn, my turn. I'm out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6630.846

Oh my God. I thought Golden State was great last night. Everybody was standing. Body language doctor noticed that. OKC, I like when they all do the post-game interview together. Heartwarming. Boston, I think, has great stuff. Everybody's pulling for each other. You can see. You can tell which teams like each other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6651.381

Be easy to prep. Hey, Denver, this was great. I'm glad we came. We got an incredible Jokic game. That was the other reason we came. He delivered. He was great to watch in person. What a treasure. I hope you guys appreciate him. We love being here. Any last words? We'll see you at the gun. We will not see you at Shotgun Willys. Thank you, Denver. All right, that's it for the podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6688.955

Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti for producing. Thanks to Rosillo for joining me in Denver. Thanks to Elizabeth Fehrman as well. Thanks to everybody who came out for the show. It was great. Don't forget to check out TheRinger.com's relaunch. And don't forget, third podcast of the week. Coming Thursday night, well after that Packers-Lions game. And don't forget, million dollar picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

6712.747

Packers plus four and a half would love to throw for at least 200 yards, but 200k and that, that is a very, very nice parlay. Minus 101 on Fandle, wherever you can find Fandle. That's it. I will see you in 24 hours. I wanna see them I wanna waste all our little sense

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

720.357

They won by four last night. He played 40 minutes and was plus 23. So try to figure that one out. They were minus 19 when he didn't play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

746.954

Sorry to get big picture on this, but one thing I was thinking with him, there's still like mystery with him. I don't know a lot about him. And people are trying to figure out like NBA ratings are going down a little bit. What does this mean to people like the product as much? Is it too easy to follow the sport? ohne die Spiele in und aus zu schauen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

765.065

Aber ich denke, es ist kein Geheimnis mit all diesen Leuten. Sie sind alle auf Social Media. Sie machen die informativen Dokumente über sich selbst. Sie sind überall. Sie sind super vorhanden. Und ich glaube, ich kenne sie alle. Und wenn du denkst, als wir gewachsen sind, wussten wir nichts über jemanden, den wir gesehen haben. Und Jokic ist einer der letzten... Ich weiß, er hat zwei Brüder.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

782.979

Ich weiß, er mag Pferde. I know he goes to Serbia as soon as the season ends and that's it. I don't even know, what kind of car does he drive? Nothing, right? What do you know? Do you know anything other than that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

872.153

Sieh, ich hab's dir gesagt, es wird Jokic-Porn sein. Ihr glaubt mir nicht. Ihr glaubt mir nicht. Ihr glaubt mir nicht. Yeah, it would be interesting if Jokic started doing stuff that the other players do, how startling it would be. Whereas Jokic just formed a production company. Like what? He wants to make independent movies.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

90.509

Nach der Packers-Line ist es eine Reaktion mit einigen anderen Sachen, die ich im Banken habe, die ich ziemlich gespannt habe. Aber ich wollte einen Million-Dollar-Pick auf dem Board für das Spiel bekommen, weil ich in Denver bin. Fando ist legal hier. Und ich konnte nicht resistieren, die Packers plus 4,5 zu betten. Ich würde gerne mindestens 200 Yards schießen. Das ist minus 101 als Parlay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

901.565

Jokic just bought a women's soccer team. He did? Big Picture, well, it's 20 games. We're not going to do the, he's going to win the MVP. He's certainly on pace. He's averaging 30 and 13 and 10. He's shooting 56%. He's shooting 52% from three. Which is more than half, in case you can't do math.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

923.699

And if he gets a fourth MVP here, now we're in the club with Jordan, LeBron, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Will Chamberlain and that's it. Was interessant ist, zwei Dinge sind jetzt im Spiel. Nämlich der beste Mann der 2020-Jahre. Wir haben noch ein bisschen Zeit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

944.976

Wir gehen in die zweite Halbzeit. Ich weiß nicht, wer in der zweiten Halbzeit einen Wettbewerb machen könnte. Wenn man sich nur die Kandidaten anschaut. Der Resümee, den er bereits hat, wenn er vier MVP gewonnen hätte. Wer würde das in der zweiten Halbzeit der Jahrhunderte ausmatchen? Das ist viel zu fragen für Lamella Ball. Das ist mein Punkt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

0.129

Hey, happy new year. I got a good pod for you. We're talking basketball and football and movies and New York sports and Boston sports. It's a new year's buffet. It's next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

1026.216

You know what? The big picture front office mistake they made was they tried to put together this big three model, which had been so successful in the late 2000s and the 2010s because the league wasn't as deep. Now the league is deep and you need depth. You need the ability to weather an injury for 10 games. You need random guys stepping up night to night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

1049.915

And I just don't know if that big three model works. Great, cool. You have three really good players. It doesn't matter. Like you're competing against other teams that have seven, eight, nine players that have real depth. That was something the Clippers figured out when they miraculously didn't offer Paul George that fourth year and landed all these other dudes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

1066.886

And now they have depth and they have the ability to, you know, whether Kawhi not playing for two and a half months because they have enough guys. So that's a hard under for me. And I think we're going to lose our bet. And I'm bummed because that was one of my favorite streaks that we had going. The other one, San Antonio is 39 and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

108.32

You can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast. on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can watch Sal and I do our Sunday podcast live right after Vikings Lions on Sunday night on that YouTube channel. Don't forget about FanDuel Sportsbook as well. We're doing 30 on 30 every Friday, trying to figure out who the 30-point scorers are going to be. They put odds on all of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

1086.702

And that's up four wins from where we were at the start of the season. They're 17 and 16. They're plus 360 to make the playoffs. And what we've seen from Wemby, Goldspire and I talked about it a little on Tuesday. Like he's basically 29 and 12 every night now with four blocks, whatever it is, and is turning into this crunch time dude. And they have trades to make potentially if they want.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

1109.843

They want to add another guy. I kind of like the plus 360 for the playoffs for them as a flyer. Oh, okay. I don't know if they're going to make the playoffs. I just like the odds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

1130.357

So the Lakers would have to drop, which I think, I really think I could see that happening. That's not crazy talk. And then now it'd be the team. They'd have to jump the Lakers basically. And then you'd have to assume Phoenix, Sacramento, Golden State, those teams, they had to beat those teams as well. I'm not saying it's going to happen. Plus 360 though.

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I just think a four to one chance of it happening basically seems reasonable to me considering they have a guy who is now like a top seven or eight guy.

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A couple other ones. So MVP is basically a two horse race. SGA minus 105, Jokic plus 115. And I think if OKC is in the mid 60s for wins and SGA is doing the stuff he's been doing all year and Denver is like a seven seed, you know, 45 win team, SGA is going to win. I think if the way it's going now is, I think SGA wins, and I was surprised the odds were even. Where'd you stand on that?

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That's good. That's a good sign. Exactly right. So even odds, and I actually think he should be favored by more. And if I was going to suggest anyone else... Look, I don't think he's going to win. But Wemby at 110-1 on FanDuel. No, no. Listen, 110-1. By the way, he has the fifth best odds on FanDuel right now because it's SGA and Jokic. Giannis is plus 950. Tatum's 22-1. And Wemby's 110-1.

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You want to put $10 on it? No, I'm not allowed to bet on the MVP. I'm just pointing out value.

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I tweet out my favorite picks. on Friday. So stay tuned for that as well. Coming up on this podcast, I'm going to talk to Sean Fennessey about the end of the Rogers era, the rise of the Knicks, and whether I should see a certain Oscar contender before the Oscars. So there's that. I have Joe House coming out. We're going to talk about NBA futures heading into 2025.

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I'm just trying to think of the last time the number five guy out of MVP was over a hundred to one because that's how dominant SGA and Jokic has been. But we know what the league like, you know, SGA, he can get a dumb injury for four weeks. Jokic, Denver could go slide backwards. Who knows? Tatum 22 to one would be more fun if Boston was playing better.

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And we're going to find out with Boston on this road trip there on rookie of the year is a catastrophe. Zach, it is our favorite at plus one 20. Yeah. Missy on a new Orleans is second now. And by the way, plays crunch time for them, but it's a terrible team. Castle seven to one Wells is 10 to one. A research is 25 to one who would probably still be my pick.

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Cause he's starting to play more and more from them just for the odds. But I don't know who's going to win that.

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Castle 701, I like too. He had a little bit of a while the last couple of weeks, but I still like him long-term. But yeah, Edie, everything we thought before the draft of, if he goes here, he's this really interesting piece in a nine-man rotation that you can... And he's been everything... The glass half full side of the Zach Eady argument? Yes. He's hit all of it.

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Defensive player of the year, Wemby's minus 270. For me, it's like if he's below minus 500 on that, just grab it. Go ahead and lay it. Most improved, the two guys that jumped out were Jalen Johnson, 3-1 is the favorite. But Dyson Daniels, a 10-1, who is probably the best perimeter defensive player we have. I was surprised 10-1 was... as high as it was.

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And then, um, coach of the year, Kenny Atkins, his favorite minus one 80, mostly a plus nine 50 jumped out to me because that the fact that that team is five, six games over 500 with all the injuries they've had is, is, uh, is crazy to me. So anyway, that is, uh, that is my way out of all those bets we just talked about. What was your favorite?

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Yeah, I think I'm with you. It's like we already have more than enough on them. Anyway, that is our little NBA check-in. All right, we're going to take a break and come back. The Red Hot Million Dollar Picks. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome. And now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.

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Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors. with the future of the empire. At stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator II, now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Life's always changing.

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One season you're trying to break personal records and the next you're just looking for a solid routine. Peloton is here for all of it with workouts that flex to fit your schedule, whatever it looks like. You've got options from four-week strength programs to running, cycling, and everything in between.

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Peloton's got the tools to adapt to whatever goal you're chasing in this season of your life, and here's the real kicker. With Peloton's all-access membership, you can work out wherever you need to, at home, on the bike, tread, or row, or even on the go with the app. Take your favorite classes with you to the gym, on the road, wherever. So whatever you're aiming for at that 5 a.m.

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club or squeezing in a late-night session, Peloton is ready whenever you are. Find your push. Find your power with Peloton at onepeloton.com. All right. Million dollar picks week 18. So I don't remember a week 18 or in the old days, a week 17, a last week of the season that had this many question marks of who's rolling over and who's not.

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Stuff that jumped out to us with title odds and win totals, MVP, all kinds of stuff. And then Million Dollar Picks Week 18. We've been smoking hot. Can we keep it going? We'll find out. Last but not least, my dad. talking about the state of Boston sports. He's kind of a wreck these days. So we're just going to give him a platform and he can do his thing. So that is all next.

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And I don't know why that's this year, but we even have playoff teams this year. Like the Rams where I'm like, so they're, they're not going to win. Like the Seahawks are minus six now favorites and the Rams still have a chance to like lock down a three seed. We were asking Peter Schrager about it this week and, and, uh, and he was texting us like just the Rams haven't had a buy since week six.

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They're banged up. McVay wanted to give Stafford and the receivers and Kyron Williams a week to heal for the playoffs and really likes his backups. So that choice that the Rams have of like, if we lock down three, we're probably playing Washington in the three, six in LA, or we dropped down to four and we're playing the loser of Minnesota, Detroit. I don't know.

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I really would have wanted to play Washington. No offense to your C words, right? I just, I would have gone for it, but I get it. That team must be really banged up is my takeaway.

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Real stakes. It's awesome. If you win, you don't get to play for a week. If you lose, all of a sudden you're traveling somewhere in five or six days and playing around one playoff game. So, yeah. Um, well, it ties into what we think will happen with that Detroit Minnesota game, which we'll get to in a second. But, uh, I was looking at Rams plus six and a half against Seattle.

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Like maybe, maybe they hang. I don't really know what Seattle's motivation is cause they're out.

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First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Joe House is here. We're taping this late morning Pacific time. So there's some sports that are going to happen after we put this up. There's college football that will happen. There's a lot of basketball. There's some good basketball games as well. We're doing the Billion Dollar Picks. We've been doing really well.

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Rams money line with the over 38 and a half is plus four 38. It's fun. It's fun. Rams plus six and a half teased in a four point tease on FanDuel up to 10 and a half. with the chiefs 14 and a half. Oh, and you can, and that's plus one 10 on FanDuel. If you want to talk yourself into chiefs and Rams, not probably going to roll over in these games. So that's, that's there for us quickly.

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And the chiefs, I just, I'd be really scared of taking the other side in this game. I could see the Chiefs winning. I don't think Wentz is going to be that bad.

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who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers.

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Yeah, it almost seems like maybe there's two ways to play it. We could just do smaller bets on the Chiefs plus 10.5 and the Rams plus 6.5 and assume you're going to split those and maybe win both. You could tease them together with the little four-point tease, plus 10.5 to plus 14.5, plus 6.5, plus 10.5. Or you have some fun, do Chiefs money over 39 and a half. That's plus 744 on FanDuel.

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Rams money over 38 and a half, plus 438. Just put small ones on both and hope one of them hits. And we'll have an answer for you at the end of Million Dollar Picks. Two games I want to bet on. I want to bet against the Pats and I want to bet against the Titans. And here's why. The lines are crazy low. Bills are favored minus two and a half over the Pats.

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Texans are favored minus one and a half at the Titans. I have no idea why the Pats or Titans would want to win this game. And you can go back to the Giants game last week and say, well, you would have said that about the Giants. I watched that entire Giants game. It was a complete fluky collapse by Indianapolis combined with Drew Locke just had a really good game.

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And if you're Drew Locke, why wouldn't you want to have a good game? You're like trying to prove that you could be a starting quarterback next year. That game just kind of fell away from the Colts. It was a coaching abomination. There was a special teams touchdown. There are all these specific reasons.

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Bill's Pats, and I'm going to talk to my dad later in the pod about why Drake May's playing, just how awful this Pats season's been. I can't believe that they would just give away the number one pick in the last week of the season.

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But this is the problem. If the coach and everybody knew they were coming back next year, this is where we go. We're going to start Joe Milton. We want to take a look at him in week 18 and we're going to try some other guys. We're going to see Gonzalez. If you don't know you're coming back You kind of want to win. You want to end the game on a high note.

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You don't want somebody to say, hey, you guys looked like shit the last couple weeks of the season. Yeah, because I benched my quarterback, motherfucker.

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No, he's the OC. The interim GM is Elliott Wolfe, who after Drake May put together one of the worst drafts in the history of the NFL. No, you have to lose the game. And it's indefensible because if they get the first pick, they're going to be able to trade back.

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Even if they trade back three spots to number four and get more picks, you're just basically giving away players and you're not going to take a quarterback at the top anyway. There's no defense. It's long-term leverage.

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Yeah, we only have two good players and Gonzalez had a concussion last week, so he shouldn't play. May's been banged up, took a big shot last week. You sit those two guys and they just don't have enough talent to beat even the Bills second string. So I like the Bills minus two and a half. And I really like the Texans minus one half against the Titans. I think the Titans are terrible.

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The stretch that they've just been on recently is just a rollercoaster ride of shit. And, you know, the Texans have lost their last two, right? They've locked up the four seed for a while, but they kind of need to play well for a game. You could say like, oh, they don't need the game. They're already in. It's like, nah, they kind of need to look good for three hours.

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Can't wait to talk about the games, how weird the slate is. But I sent you a bunch of NBA stuff because this is a weird inflection point of the season right now with awards, with odds, with conference stuff. And I was going through it this morning and I was really surprised by some of the odds for things. The first thing was the title odds where Boston and OKC are right where you would think.

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And I just find it hard to believe they're going to toss away the game and go into the playoffs, finishing nine and eight for the season, hosting somebody good, either the Chargers or the Steelers, and just not feel good about anything that's happened for a month.

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I want to bet both of these. And I think we split at least one. If the Pats and Titans both win, That means the Browns are going to have the first pick in the draft. When do things ever work out for the Browns?

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They won the Kyrie lottery because the league felt bad for them. That's one of my top five. Are we sure this lottery was on the level?

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Yeah, and the thing is, their quarterbacks suck. I just don't see it. I think they're terrible. They lost to Jacksonville last week.

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All right. So we'll put Pat, we'll put stuff against the Pats and Titans. The two big games I want to focus on, and there's so many games where it's like, I don't know if that team's going to care. I don't know if this team's going to care. I don't know who's playing. I don't know what the motivation is. But we know Vikings, Lions, and Steelers, Bengals.

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We know all four of those teams are going to give a shit about the game. Steelers, Bengals, everybody's on the Bengals, it feels like. The line is Bengals minus one and a half in Pittsburgh. The Bengals are eight and eight for the year. The Bengals have really no good wins. Last week's win was probably the best win they've had of the season. I don't think their defense is good.

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Bo Nix missed multiple wide open guys. He hit one, but he missed three others. I thought the Broncos should have won the game. I know Burrow's really good. I know Burrow with Chase and Higgins are really good together. Chase Brown, ankle injury. They're not going to be able to run the ball the same. But to me, this is a Steelers moment. I think they need the game.

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If they win, they're the five seed. If they're the five seed, they get to go to Houston and play a Houston team that none of us think are good. They should beat the Houston team. They beat that Houston team, assuming the rest of the playoffs goes chalk for round one. Then they would go to Kansas City for round two. Kansas City coming off, you know, God only knows what they do this week.

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Bye week next week. Pittsburgh's going to go into Kansas City and be like, yeah, we can play with these dudes. I don't really like what I've seen from Pittsburgh the last few weeks, and I know you don't either, but they also had this crazy three games and 11 days stretch against three of the five best teams in the league. And now I think their stock's too low.

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Boston's plus 200, OKC's plus 250. The fact that the Knicks had better title odds than Cleveland, I was kind of shocked by. The Knicks are 10-1, Cleveland's 11-1. And then after that, it's Denver 15-1, Dallas 17-1. They have in these futures, there's legacy stuff from the start of the season. They can't jack them around too much. And then we'll go through some of the other ones later.

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We've been at the craps table house with the Steelers a lot. And we stayed a little too long in that Philly game and we got our ass kicked. I'm ready to put some money and some dice and some chips down on the craps table and the Steelers again. I think they're going to win.

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Well, think about the special teams piece, too. Amazing. Yeah. I don't trust their kicker at all. This is going to be a three point. This is going to be a classic Steelers, Pittsburgh, Tomlin game. And the Steelers have Boswell. And these guys have a kicker that I don't trust from any distance, basically.

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Steelers with some rest, 10 days between the Wednesday and the Saturday, so they're able to heal. I love this. This is a classic, classic Tomlin game. Look, if they lose, if Burrow kills them, I'm not going to regret betting on the Steelers. I feel the same way. The Steelers have come through over and over again in this spot at home. We've seen it too many times.

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And I think there's real stakes for them. That's the piece. The Rams, I get it. It's like, okay, either we're going to be hosting Washington in the 3-6 or we're hosting probably the Lions coming off a really physical, brutal playoff game. in the four or five. It matters, but it doesn't really 100% matter. This Steelers thing matters.

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The difference between playing Houston in Houston versus going to fucking Baltimore and playing Baltimore for the third time, this really matters to them. And I don't think that, I think the Bengals are 8-8 for a reason.

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It's not like, you know, T Higgins missed a few weeks, right? Other than that, this is who they are. They have a couple of good players and a lot of shitty ones. It's the defense.

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So do you like the Steelers plus one and a half or do you just like the Steelers plus one 10? Um, I like the money line.

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It's a little more appetizing. And then the other one is Vikings-Lions. And I feel like now every Thursday I'm just talking about the Vikings, how I don't understand why people don't realize they're good. They came through again last week. And the best possible thing happened in that game last week They dominated their kicker, missed a couple of field goals.

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But I was really surprised Cleveland isn't being treated more favorably by the odds community. What else do people need to see from this team? Because right now they're 29 and four. Their over-under on FanDuel for wins for the season is 61 and a half. I don't know, they're probably gonna have home court advantage round one, round two, round three. What don't people trust?

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The Packers really got it going with eight minutes left when the Vikings were way up. They stopped blitzing as much and doing some of the stuff that got them the spot there in the first three quarters, laid back a little bit. Love started to look good. And all of a sudden it was, you know, a two point game as the final score. It was not a two point game. The Vikings are awesome.

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I think the Vikings are going to win, and I want to bet on that piece of it. That's fine. But I also want to put them in a tease because I agree with you. There's stuff we could do. We could do Pittsburgh plus 4.5 and Minnesota plus 7.5. That's plus 112. Great one. We could do Washington minus 220 just to win with Minnesota plus 7.5. That's around even odds. We could do that as well.

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Those would be my two. I don't want to do Washington. You were nervous about this Washington game.

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So it sounds like we should put Vikings plus 130 and Steelers plus 110. We should just bet those. And then do a tease maybe with... I mean, the other way to do it is just do the tees and make that the big bet.

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My only fear is, I don't want to, like if one of these two teams screws up somehow and then we lose both games. That's my fear. Cause that happened last week. Cause I love Minnesota last week and you threw some water on it. You scared me off a little and we ended up putting them in a parlay with the Colts and the Colts lost.

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And then I just, I won nothing on Minnesota, even though that was one of my favorite bets. So I understand part of me wonders, just do the Viking Steelers money lines. And then maybe we do that.

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I think that's the move. So we do Vikings money line, Steelers money line, Pittsburgh with the little T's and then Bill's Texan stuff. And you want to put anything on Chiefs Rams or no?

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. We'll just put a little tiny bit on that. And do you agree that we should probably scale back this week? Yeah. Oh, my God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I know, but you know what? We should have known better. We should have known better. We should know not to put... They were seven-point favorites.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And had no business being seven-point favorites over anybody. Exactly. And that was a rare... We got suckered in on a bad team, basically just assuming the Giants would take care of business. And it was just a classic. Colts are an absolute... absolute everybody needs to go situation, right? And they probably will.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I'm staying away from the NFC South. Okay, good. Fine. All right. Million dollar picks. Week 18. Last week, we went $641,000. That's pretty good. We're up $2.177 million for the year. Double the nut. We're going to scale back this week. Smart. Because it's week 18. It's a stupid week. I want to have a nice little $2 million nest egg for the playoffs. For the playoffs, baby. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I don't want to be like, I don't want to be at the blackjack table 20 minutes too long after they change the dealers. Let's just take it nice and easy. Maybe we throw away the Moneyline bets and just do Pittsburgh, Minnesota as the tees that we talked about. Fine. It's one of my favorite bets of the week. All right. All right. First bet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Pittsburgh, we're going to do a slight adjusted parlay with them, plus 4.5 Pittsburgh against Cincinnati, with Minnesota plus 7.5 against Detroit. That is plus 1.12 on FanDuel. And the reasoning for this... We don't think Pittsburgh is being judged correctly after their horrible three games in 11 days stretch. They are now 10 days rest against a team that they put 500 plus yards on. They're home.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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They're underdogs. This is the all-time classic Tomlin situation. And then Minnesota, plus seven and a half, I think we both think they're better than Detroit, but this gives us some buffer if anything weird happens. Even if they're down 10 or 14 late, they're going to get the cheap touchdown because Detroit stinks. So that's plus 112. We'll put 150K on that. Okay. Just to respect ourselves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Fair, fair, fair. And then I want to put 50K each. Okay. on Vikings plus 130 and Steelers plus 110.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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All right. Then we are going to put 100K on two teams against two teams that should not want to win this weekend, the Patriots and the Titans. So Bills minus two and a half, 100K on that over the Pats. Good. If the Pats win... I'm going to lose my mind. I'm just telling you right now. Just don't just mute me on Twitter. Just do it. Do it now. I'm going to fucking lose my mind.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Slightly different Knicks team. I would argue slightly different Cavs team because they've got a totally different version of Garland this year, now that he's healthy. Mobley went up a level. New coach, who I think has made a real difference for them. And over and over again, they just answer these tests. I don't know if you saw any of the Warriors game the other night, but they just...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Don't watch the Sunday podcast. I'm going to lose my mind if they win this game. Oh, Texans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Texans minus one and a half over the Titans. The point shavers. Yes. The point shavers. The Titans. Texans over the point shavers. Let's go. Going for two and 15 against the spread this season, which is the most. You're just going to bet against them every week. You'd be up a kajillion dollars. That could have been a million dollar fix. Yeah. Right. A kajillion dollar.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So we're putting 100K each on that. And then last but not least, just a little 50K flyer. On Chiefs plus 14 and a half adjusted with Rams plus 10 and a half. That is plus 110 on FanDuel. We just feel like the Chiefs are going to hang around and make the Denver fans nervous. And I think the Rams are going to hang around because I don't think McVay is a, I just want to throw a game away guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I think he said, let me see. Let me see what we have with Blake Corum. Let me see what Jimmy G, what do I got here? He trusts Jimmy G. Yeah, what do I got with my third and fourth receivers? Maybe I'll run some trick shit. I just think he'll have some fun in this game and get the team ready. So 50K on that. And those are the million dollar picks for week 18.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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There's one more stake for this house heading into the weekend. I need a Houston win and I need an Arizona win. And I finish future over-unders. That's all I did before the season. I'll be 27-5. Right now, I'm 25-5. Houston win, they go over. Arizona win, they go over. 27-5, house. That's getting the job done. That's very well done. at some point that's just impressive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Like, like somebody, somebody, as I said it last week, you don't have to say it. We need the positive media account. Somebody who just points out positive takes that people had or great takes on something or like just, Hey, this person's been successful lately. Like cousin Sal with the, with the wise wagers when he was 13 and two, Hey, look at this. Kudos to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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We need more positivity on social media in 2025. Anyway, Houston, Arizona, if I can hit both of those, 27 and five. I'm rooting for you. Keeping my fingers crossed. Good luck with Washington. So when you're here for round one, Rams-Washington is in play. In play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Rams get the three seed. Washington gets the six seed. Maybe that's the Amazon Saturday night game. You're going to be here. We'd have to seriously consider... Go into that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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you know, they're just slaughtering teams. They're not, it's very similar to what was happening with the Celtics last year. And I, you know, they're plus 11. I think they're plus like 11, three rating. They're killing teams. They're up by 20 in a lot of these games. And it was like last year where people didn't trust it with the Celtics for a while. And then eventually they trusted it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I would actually root for Washington in that game, I think. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I'd also be rooting for his three and a half hour rollercoaster ride of a possible mental breakdown. Watching him do it as he just angrily eats stuff too. Like he gets out all his neuroticism with food. That would be really fun to watch. Why we get along well, me and Chang.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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This episode is brought to you by Pepsod Complete. We all know that one of the best parts of game day is the food. On Sundays, Nephew Kyle comes over. Sometimes we'll get healthy. We'll get some salads. Sometimes we'll get a little ambitious. We'll get some sandwiches. It's always the best part of my food week. Well, until heartburn strikes, then it's not as great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

3558.026

Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Sean Fantasy is here. Gamut of emotions for him right now. End of the movie year. End of another depressing jet season. But maybe the start of something special with the Knicks. So I don't know. You want to start positive for once? I would love to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, they're not going to matter that much if the team's really good for the rest of the decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I, maybe I trusted too much with them, but I, I'm, I really believe, I think they have as good of a chance as anybody. And I don't understand the odds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

3608.749

Who cares? It's a great way to think about it. The Towns thing is the win of wins though, because that could have gone nine different ways. And it feels like at least so far we are almost, we're two and a half months in the season. So far it's gone as well as it could have possibly gone. And he's way more popular than even I could have expected in my wildest dreams. And he's really fun to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And it just feels like he's at the peak of whatever his powers are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

3685.083

Yeah, I'm talking later in the pod. I talked to my dad about the Celtics, and they have a really hard part of the schedule coming up. There's a chance for the Knicks to grab the two-seed here. And have at least home court for the first two rounds if they wanted to. But the thing that I'm, I mentioned this to Goldsberry on Tuesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

37.363

I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The thing that I worry about as a Celtic fan with them is the buyout potential of one or two guys who are like, yeah, cool. I'll be in New York for three, four months and shoot some threes for you and grab some rebounds. So, I heard you say that to Kirk.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

3719.359

Well, because so many teams are doing well or doing decent or, you know, haven't really packed it in yet. You kind of don't know who the candidates are yet. So, like, Detroit had that terrible Jaden Ivey injury yesterday, right? Detroit was playing really well. He was a huge part of what they were doing. And then, you know, Cole Anthony goes into his leg. He's out for the year. It sucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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But now maybe that's a team that says, ah... Yeah, maybe we're not a playoff team now and it goes the other way and now there's buyout guys on that team. I just don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

3764.39

Yeah, I think we'd have to trade for him, though, is the problem. We would, yeah. Yeah, you're looking at more... Yeah, you're looking at more the dude's... I don't know, on the Portland, those kind of teams. The Sacramento's, who knows? But I'm sure it'll be somebody, and it won't be somebody we're expecting either. But yeah, it's fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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That Knicks-Celtics, probably going to be round two, probably going to be the 2-3. would be my guess unless something dramatic happens. And that will be the most meaningful Celtics-Knicks. These teams are actually pretty even in 40 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I'm happy for the fans. No, the league's better when the Knicks are good. I'm happy for the fan base.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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There's a really fun scenario where, where the Sixers are in the playing and somehow get to a spot where the, if the Knicks are the two seed and somehow the Sixers win the seven, eight game. And all of a sudden we get Sixers Knicks again, because that was it. That's starting to be the best rivalry in the NBA with the, with the hatred from the fan bases.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, I don't know the rule on that, but he's playing too well. I don't see a scenario for that. You'll get somebody interesting. It's weird to see you, because not only do you have this, but the Mets steal Soto from the Yankees. You have that too. Like we head into 2025 with real New York sports optimism from you for once.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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This is it. This is it for Rodgers and Devontae Adams and the coach. And you need a new GM. And you obviously need a new owner, but that's not happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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There was a big athletic story about how weird it is with the owner and his kids being involved. It was just over and over again. The data confirming, the anecdotes confirming, the eye test confirming that this is one of the most memorable shit shows in a while. You predicted it before the season. It's been even worse than I think you would have imagined.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So it's, it's been a horrible, the body language doctor is not like anything he's seen. No, but I think that point that you made earlier though, Not being able to understand what his agenda or his point is in some of his interviews, I think is a great point because sometimes I'll see transcripts or there'll be some clip that goes on Twitter and it's like, Roger says this on Mac fan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I watch it and you almost wonder is like, is this a, this is a bit. Like, what's he doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, that's especially to be the guy who's supposed to be the calming force, the driver of your race car. When you have somebody super radical now seems like he's clearly hoping he doesn't have to come back next year and seems like he's getting a little bridge Bernie. So they'll maybe get rid of him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It's a good theory. Well, I wonder how much of that ties into COVID. And how weird so many people got just being alone for nine, 10 months during COVID and getting pushed to be more and more online.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And like, if you, if you didn't have a family around, like, and you're just by yourself a lot, like what were the ramifications that we both know people in our lives that just pre post COVID just felt like they were slightly different people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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He's completely falling apart. Yeah, CR is. I mean, I wasn't going to mention that. CR is now a maniac. Now, I don't know how it plays out, but I do feel like there's some end game with him where he's not going to retire. And he clearly thinks something is happening for him next year somewhere. And I just don't know where that is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The thing that's notable this year is he used to be so great at evading pressure and buying himself two, three. So he just can't do it anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And as you said earlier, it doesn't seem like he wants to make mistakes. He's going to finish the season with... you know, 26 touchdowns and 10 picks. And on paper, it'll look great. But he also, he only does throws that are like these safe throws down the sidelines, these like timing catches or like these quick things. And, you know, you rarely see him just being like Josh Allen gunning it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I think Brady has ruined our ability to look at all of this stuff logically because quarterbacks are supposed to hit their late, late thirties and just get worse every year. And then Brady just didn't happen with him. And I've said this before, but it's very similar to the LeBron thing. Like, the LeBron thing is just really unusual.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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We're not going to see a lot of people just play until they're 40 and be able to put up 25, 10 and seven and just bowl through guys, even though they've had a kajillion miles. So I don't know. I, I, I think this is what it should end. Like this Kirk cousin, same thing. You should hit your late thirties and you should start becoming worse at quarterback. It's too hard to play movies. Yeah. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Um, I'm still getting through all the movies. Okay. There were a lot this year and I got, I fell behind because of basketball and football, but I've seen a lot of them now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. They really dumped a lot of them late. It felt like, uh, this weird award strategy or something. And it's been hard to get through all of them with all the other stuff, but I've been, I've been trying. I don't have a movie that I really absolutely love this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And I know you're talking about this on your pod constantly, but was there a movie in 2024 that you're just like, I'm fucking ride or die. I love this movie. I'll fight anybody who didn't like it. It doesn't feel like that movie exists this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. All these different films have pieces of things that feel like it's the movie of the year, but not the whole thing. We had some weird, what was that three billboards year? We never really decided. Yeah. what the movie was that year. And then.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, but those years, those were like ride or die movies. We were like Get Out. Like we had great arguments that year. I remember that three billboards year. We just kind of, it's Black Klansman. There was a bunch of them where it was like, ah, I liked it. but I wasn't all the way there. Like I thought that way about Anora, but the first hour of Anora, I was like, just absolutely riveted.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The second hour, you know, it lost an air, but I was still really glad I saw it. I thought it was a really original, awesome, creative movie, but it was a little flawed too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, it also... The second biggest part in the movie is somebody who's basically insane for two hours. He's Russian Borat. Yeah. And it's a choice. It was really... Listen, it's really memorable and it has a couple of distinct memorable scenes. But if that won Best Picture, that would be kind of shocking. Conclave has the big twist in the end. Conclave has...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. And we and we we trusted the Garland comeback year. We trusted the stability with Mitchell. And the big X factor was what's mobile got for us this year? Right. Mobile went up a level and he's hitting threes better. And I, you know, I think, I think he should be in the all-star team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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all the breadcrumbs of what a best actor, I'm sorry, best film looks like. It's another one. It's bringing you into this world. That's kind of cool. There's great actors that I like. And I got like 82% there for me doing percentages. I didn't get a hundred percent for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It was like, how do we end this? And then somebody got an idea over coffee one day and all of a sudden that was the end of the movie. I didn't think he was better than Chalamet. I thought Fiennes was really good. I thought what Chalamet did, Ciara and I did a little Ringer Movies YouTube thing about it. I know you talked about it too. I didn't love the movie. I really liked watching it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I don't know if I would watch it again, but I think I liked watching it for the actors and not the actual movie. I thought it was really conventional. But I really liked watching Chalamet. I liked all the main actors. I thought were excellent. I didn't know Chalamet had that in him. I was really proud of him. I felt like... I felt a little... I felt a little... I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Even if you look at their last 20 games, their net, their net ratings, 11.9 heading into a Thursday night and the weekend. And the, the, Cleveland, OKC, Boston, the Knicks, and the Grizzlies are all nine and above in net rating the last 20 games. And Memphis is the one I could see more confusion about Memphis, whether what's real, what's not real with them, just because

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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A friend of mine had a really good point that I was hanging out with on New Year's Eve about the movie that so much of the movie hinges on the person that's watching it, understanding the before and after of Dylan, which they try to do in the movie and they're just kind of showing you. But if you're under 35, you don't get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You don't understand it because you don't know the backstory of it, that it was like music was like this. And then it became like this. And it wasn't just Dylan. It was the Rolling Stones. It was a lot of different artists. The Beatles. All these different artists who, you know, went from basically black and white TV to color TV in music over the course of four years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And the movie shows us that, but it doesn't... And it's trying to tell us that, but I don't know if it ever gets message across for somebody like my daughter who doesn't know anything about the 60s. You know what I mean? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

4935.31

Yeah, I felt differently. Like I kind of felt like I knew everything in the movie. So I was learning basically nothing. So I was just concentrated on the actors. Right. There are no surprises at all, if you knew. I mean, you're a bigger Dylan fan than I am. We were like, oh my God, I didn't realize there was nothing like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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it doesn't, you know, Morant, I want to see if it can, can you just play for a solid month and a half and just be out there every day? Um, they've had some, some, some good schedule luck so far. We'll see if that exists, but right now they're building such a big nest egg. Like they're 23 and 11 right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It was missing that one. Like walk the line. I always had Johnny Cash, volatile guy. This relationship with his wife. It had like this hook that I was like, I kind of want to know more about this. I always wondered what this was. And it dove into it. And this didn't really have the Joan Baez relationship, but it didn't feel like just wasn't as, wasn't as riveting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Two movies that outkicked their coverage for me. Okay. We haven't talked about this. I really liked Heretic. I thought it was one of the best horror movies in a while. And I, I, the only reason I just was late seeing it, my daughter had signed into the theater and she's like, you've got to see this movie. I knew nothing about it. I intentionally read nothing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And, uh, I thought it was one of the best horror movies of the last 10 years. And I don't even know if you'd call it a horror movie, whatever, whatever genre that is. Um, I thought it was really cool, really well-written. I, I liked the actors thought Hugh Grant was great. It made me think about shit. I just thought it was really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Like I wouldn't be, it's not, wouldn't be shocking if that was one of the 10 best films. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Golden Globe to me is like Rotten Tomatoes for you when I bring up rewatchables.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Fascinating career. We're three plus decades now. Go back to early 90s with him. And there's been a lot of iterations from him. And now he's kind of into this old creepy English guy version of Hugh Grant, which I'm all in for.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals.

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They're over under is 51 and a half on FanDuel, which 51 and a half, that means you have to go 52 and 30. So at the, To me, that's a little bit of a lack of a trust, I think, from the betting community, at least with them. There's some weird ones, though. Like the Knicks being 10-1 makes sense to me. That seems like the right range for them, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

5206.26

Yeah, but that also fits into 2024 where it was like, this movie I really like, but it was missing something. I agree with you. The last 20 minutes, it's like, ah, you landed the plane, but I kind of hit my head on the ceiling of the plane as you were landing it. But we made it. Yeah. But I liked it. I was really glad I watched it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And Nickel Boys, I thought, and I'd heard some people mention it, but I just thought it was so inventive how they, the filmmaking was just, it was just a really cool movie. It was really unusual and unique and it really stood out to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. Which was probably a mistake. I wish I had seen it in theater.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I could see in a movie theater that it would make you almost want to throw up. So maybe it was better I saw it at home.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, because it made me think that guy, maybe it's his next movie or two movies from now, will have an awesome movie. You know what I mean? All the ingredients were there for, I want to see what this guy does next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Right. So two that didn't get there for me were The Substance and Baby Girl. But I was glad I saw both. Okay. I've never want to watch either again. Baby girl. I have people in my life, like my mother who absolutely hated it. And usually it's the kind of movie she likes because my mother's weird. Um, but really good performances at the top of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Movies that were trying to say stuff and took swings. I don't know. You've talked about both, but I just, I appreciated the swing. It just didn't, the movie, neither movie worked for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I don't know if it needed to be two hours, 20 minutes long, and I did not enjoy watching the last 30 minutes, which I think was the point of the movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Denver is 15-1, I think just because of the legacy of what people bet for the season. Same for Dallas, 17-1. But if you go a little further and you dig in, like Memphis is 27-1. Houston's 44-1. Memphis and Houston are going to probably be top four seeds. So when you just look at it like that, you're like, how do those people have way worse odds than Denver?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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She was like, the 80s movies did this so much better. This is trying too hard. I'm not buying it. I don't understand why Nicole Kidman wanted to do a movie like... It set her off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Nosferatu. As I told you, I'm not a gothic Dracula vampire guy. I'm just not. I'm not the audience for that movie. Some people in my life really liked it. Some other people are like, eh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

5551.855

Yeah. That's been Dracula for my entire life, though. Or vampires or whatever version of this. I just, for me personally, I'm not a fan. Break it down for me. Why do you not like vampires? Never liked any of them. I didn't even like the Coppola one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I don't, it just doesn't work for me. I can't, I can't defend it. I can't explain it. I've just, even since I was a, the last one I liked was, um, they used to do the creature, creature feature or whatever. The double features, the Christopher Lee movies, they would show all the time on channel 56 in Massachusetts. The hammer horror. Yeah. And it was always like the Dracula ones or they, they,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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those movies from the fifties. Um, I don't know. I just could never get there with any of them. I always was more like for horror. I was always more of the, I want to be able to relate to this in some way. I can't relate to go into some weird dark mansion in the middle of nowhere and trying to figure out, um, It just doesn't work for me. But other people love it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I don't... It might have been better for me in the theater being trapped to it. like being trapped at the screen versus I saw it at home. I'm sure that was a piece of it, but I was, I mean, my wife falling asleep with a half hour to go was, was like minus a thousand on FanDuel. And then that happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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A team that just seems like a mess night to night is even though Jokic is as great as he's been. What do you think of the Clippers at 75 to one to win the title? Nah. Just the complete didn't even make you stop for a second? No. I'm not saying they're going to win the title. It just seemed like those odds seemed really high to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And, uh, but what's weird is my daughter didn't like it, but my daughter's boyfriend loved it and saw it in the theater twice. I just think, and like nephew Kyle loved it. Like some people like this is a type of genre they love.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So that, and that was the fun part to watch. Like it's an exceptionally well done movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I've never, I don't even know if there's a vampire movie. I didn't even really like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and all that stuff. I just never got it. You know, maybe I'm more of a werewolf guy. Is that possible?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It's a Blumhouse movie. The Brutalist, I've not seen yet. It's 200 minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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What did you say? What was that? I said I might not have the 200 minutes until after the playoffs. It might have to be like two weeks before the Oscars situation. So... 200 minutes is... I could take a train... From Back Bay Station in Boston to New York. And The Brutalist wouldn't be over as I'm getting into New York. Maybe you should watch it on the train ride on your iPad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Just stuck on the XLR watching Brutalist? I mean, you know, the length... It seems like it's a movie for you. It seems like it's a movie for the diehard movie nerds. And I get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Okay, so 175 minutes. So you're tacking on... You're going to compare the list to The Godfather?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I'll watch 10 straight hours of NFL on Sunday and watch some of the worst quarterbacks we've had this decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I can sit through three and a half hours of The Brutalist. It seems like it's a can't misser. Well, there's been some like like Roma and there's been some over the over the last 10 years. I'm just like, I just I'm tapping out. I don't I don't care.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Nobody in the house. I just got to clear out, focus, put my phone in another room.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Even Heretic, I had little Sixers Kings going on the bottom left TV. Keep me grounded. Brutalist, no basketball on any TVs. That honestly, that like hurts my brain. The idea of running Heretic. Just wanted to see what was happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Doug, the great Doug Christie. Oh, right. Former basketball wife star.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Probably. Probably doing little finger points at her. So who wins best film right now? I mean, the odds really aren't out yet until we get to final 10. It seems like it's wide open. You know, Amanda came back to the show today. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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If I had a four-year-old daughter, like if I, or if I was you and Tate, I would have gone. I would have sat through it, but it's not, I'm out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I think there's two kinds of movie people. There's the kind like you or the movie where you have to see literally everything, right? Then there's the pick and choose diehard movie fans. And I've hit the pick and choose part of my life At this point. And it's like, I'm just not gonna, I'm not gonna see everything anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I'm gonna, I'm gonna, and if there's a couple people in my life who are really, really pushing a movie that I trust, I'm like, oh, they seem really, all right, fine. But for the most part, I don't feel, there's also way more movies out than there's ever been. And the, the, in the old days, there was always like, you kind of knew, oh, this is an awards movie. This is a big popcorn movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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This is a movie trying to get a lot of people. Now there's just a lot of movies coming out where I don't even know what the goal was the goal of the movie to make money. Like who, who greenlit this? It was the goal to try to make this an under 3 million. It feels like we have more of those than ever before. And it's really hard to, tell which are the essential ones to watch?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Plus all the streaming shit. Then you start adding in like the carry-ons and all those kind of movies. And it's just, I just feel like there's more choices than we've ever had before. And weirdly, the TV's gotten worse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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But they're also getting longer. That's the other piece. It's like when we do rewatchables and Craig's like, whoa, it's an hour 34. Like I'm so excited. All these, all these movies now feel like they have to be gigantic, but it's still, I feel like the creativity is still there. I think there's, more choices than ever for what, you know, what you like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I still feel like there's, we have a nice generation of younger actors now that we were really, you came on here a couple of years ago. We were really worried about the next generation. And now I feel like there's so many like under 35, under 40 actors that I really believe in now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Even that Florence Pugh, Andrew Garfield movie that my wife and daughter loved, like, I'm glad people are making those movies, though. It's like, here's our audience. It's cancer and cooking, and this lady's going to die in the end. That was the original title, cancer and cooking. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, we know the TV is going to get better and hopefully there's some good movie stuff too. All right. You can listen to Fantasy in the big picture. You can hear them on the rewatchables every so often. Congrats on the Knicks. Congrats on not having Aaron Rodgers in your life anymore after this weekend. Probably.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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What if they bring him back? I can't imagine. Don't, I said to you, I texted you that Garrett Wilson, the move needs to be, he just needs to go off on Aaron Rodgers and just the Jets fan base will be like, finally, our savior has spoken. Let him just say the words him or me out loud into a microphone. I would love. Yeah, that sounds great. All right. Happy New Year, Sean. Thanks, Bill.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If you want to take control of your finances, Apple Card is where it starts. A credit card that can give you up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. I have one. I can tell you this is true. I know and love Apple Card. So many places I can use it, especially during a busy time here with football, basketball, the holidays.

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All at once, I can use my Apple Card on tickets to a game, a gift from my dad, or even tickets as a gift for my dad. Plus, anytime there's a new Apple product, It's a lot easier. Apply for an Apple Card today. It's easy. Just go to the Wallet app on your iPhone. Again, that easy. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch.

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6357.29

Terms and more at applecard.com. This episode is brought to you by Hookah. I've got to talk to you guys about the Bondi 9, the new daily trainer from Hookah. The Bondi 9 delivers peak plushness for everyday miles overhauled from top to bottom. They've increased the stack height and added a new premium foam midsole to deliver that soft, resilient ride that's become synonymous with the Bondi.

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And look, I walk a lot. I walk all around LA. You need good shoes for that. These are perfect. Everybody, Bondi. Visit hookah.com, H-O-K-A.com to learn more about the Bondi 9. All right. My dad is here. We're taping this 1230 Pacific time on Thursday.

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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We're three days away from Bill's Patriots waiting to see if the Patriots are going to do the right thing and actually not intentionally lose the game, but maybe structure things a certain way so that they don't get a win. What's the mood like in Boston with this Patriots team as we head into week 18?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Right. Yeah, there's two reasons we want to shut him down. One, he gives us the best chance to win. They don't want to win because of all these extra assets you get with the pick. The other thing is he's getting the crap kicked out of him. And at this point, I'm just happy. Like that hit he took in the Chargers game, I'm just happy to... Put him on the shelf. Gonzalez, same thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Get him out of there. Let's just get out of the season and then kind of figure out what we have with the team. Instead, to win this game and to lose out on all the extra assets you would get from a trade down, To me, it almost looks like organizationally you have to look at it and go, who's running the team? Does the coach think he's going to be there? Does the GM think he's going to be there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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What do the owners want out of this? And it's a recurring theme that we've had for a year. It doesn't seem like anybody is really in charge. It's ludicrous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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They still have the the only way that makes sense to me is if you're assuming that there's a Randall trade out there for them. that they can turn him into something else. Because the thing that's changed the last couple weeks is DiVincenzo finally got going. And that's added all the stuff we thought he was going to add before that trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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But this is what happens when the coach's motivations and the GM's motivations aren't aligned with the owner's motivations, right? If the coach knows he's going to be here next year, you're totally fine throwing the game away because you know the team, it's the best thing you can do for the team. If you feel like you're on thin ice, you're thinking about it differently.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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But the guy who's really on thin ice is Bob Kraft. Who I think over the last year, it's been one of the biggest turns. I think of a, of a fan base feeling about somebody that belonged to the fan base where you would go to these Celtic games. Every time they showed Kraft, if he was in the stands, standing ovation or huge cheers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, I remember when we were talking about Missoula after that first year and whether they should bring him back or not. And we were really concerned about a bunch of stuff that we saw during this season from him. But we were always factoring in This was about as unfair of a situation as somebody could possibly be in. He gets the job right before the year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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He loses, you know, he's the number four assistant. He loses other assistants that were on the team during the year. He's young. He's friends with some of the guys in the team. Everything that there was the Grant Williams, Marcus Smart pieces. Right. There was a case like, hey, they give him the off season. They give him a better bench of people. They made the Grant Williams, Marcus Smart trades.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Let's see what he's got. And he's gotten better as it's gone on. I don't know what the case is with Mayo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, that team won a lot of games and lost Game 7 in the Eastern Finals. So it wasn't like he was a dumpster fire.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And the athletic John Krasinski wrote a really good piece about it. Just like, you know, we always forget the human element sometimes with these NBA trades. And Dante was just fucking bummed out the first month and a half of the season. Like he wanted to be on the Knicks. He had had a great run with him. It was the best professional run of his career.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, it's such a dramatic difference. Yeah. In assets, you know, and I'm not a huge tanking guy and I get why it's, I think sometimes it could be really cancerous if that just becomes a strategy. When you're in the situation they're in here where the quarterback's banged up and, you know, it just makes no sense. I don't know why they wouldn't want the number one pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

68.065

With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally.

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It's certainly the worst we've ever had since you and I have rooted for that team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, especially when he's a little bit reckless, which is a great quality, unless... Like that, you know, what he did last week in the Chargers game was pretty reckless. Like he was going out of bounds. He spun back in, ends up taking this huge hit. It's the first drive of the game. Yeah, it's weird. I feel bad for Mayo because he seems like a nice guy. And I just think sometimes...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's the wrong job. He was never... I don't know if he was ever actually the defensive coordinator. I don't... I think he was, you know, part of the team. Belichick's obviously running so much of it. Right. But he's just seemed to overmatch this whole year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The press conferences, even though they don't matter that much, but they kind of do, too, because they're the connection of the fan base and the connection is seeming like you're stable and you have some sort of North Star that's guiding you. And even... you know, that the reminder Stevenson, he's not starting this week. We're starting Gibson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It's like, no, actually reminder is starting to, Hey, what happened coach? How's the coach's decision? It's like, no other team does this where the guy just changes his mind. And he's had like five of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now he's on this weird Minnesota team and he just didn't play well and he didn't look like he was happy. Reinvested himself and now he's added a little something. I'm interested to see with Dillingham what they get out of him too. If he, if he's just, you know, him and Reed Shepard are kind of the two X factors of these rookies on good teams that don't really play. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the big thing for him, though, is that I mean, every head coach has to have some sort of specialty, right? Like sometimes there's like the culture coaches and it's somebody like Harbaugh who's like, he's good at everything as a coach, but he's really about like a culture and coaching different parts of the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I think the best coaches have always been guys that do everything and have some sort of Identity of that. But then there's other coaches who are like, well, at least I really know this. I'm really good at offense. I'm really good at defense. This way he was supposed to be this defensive guy. And the defense is abominable. I mean, it's, it's basically the same guys. Gonzalez is back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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They don't have bar. They basically flipped Gonzalez for Barmore. They lost Bentley this year, but for the most part, it's the same guys. The secondary is just a train wreck. And DVOA-wise, I think they're the worst team in the league. They never seem like they know what they're doing. And that's where you get to the other side with all the penalties and all the stupid stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They just don't seem well-coached. I don't see how anyone can watch them and be like, oh, well, they're doing this well. They're not doing anything well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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One thing he's good at is admitting that he hasn't done a good job. He seems like a nice guy, but it's like, you're the same guy who's running bubble screens on 3rd and 17. Right. We're going backwards more than we're going forwards in some of these drives. So the question for me is sometimes you can just miss with the coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And this is, I tweeted out all the one and out coaches that have happened in the NFL. It happens. It seems like it's about once a year where somebody is like, ah, we just had, we just picked the wrong guy. Like Nathaniel Hackett on the Broncos where they were like, ah, this guy's kind of a disaster. We should probably get out of this one. And they fired him during the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, and the question for me with Mayo is how attached is craft to the decision? Because this was his guy. He, he basically was out and said, I decided five years ago, this is my coach. He really believed in this guy as a person, human being. And by the way, he might be a great guy. I just haven't seen any evidence he's a real head coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And Reed Shepard hasn't been good either. I think Dillingham has been good in spots, but I'm just wondering what happens with those guys down the stretch. So the Rockets are another one at 44 to one that just like, if you're just factoring in a trade and you can, can they turn Van Vliet or Jalen Green into into a much better version of those guys, then maybe those odds go up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the problem is you have Vrabel sitting there who we know is a good coach. And that's who everybody in New England wants. And you bring this guy because they talk about, oh, can we get T. Higgins? I don't think they're going to get anybody if to the outside world they look poorly coached and poorly run. Drake May is a great asset, but that's not enough to lure people to come here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but couldn't he extricate himself with it by being like, look, I love this guy. I really believe in him. My mistake was giving him a job that maybe he wasn't 100% ready for yet because he didn't have enough experience as a coordinator. There's ways you can get out of that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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No. But that's the thing is, at least last year compared to this year, now they have this asset. They have a franchise QB. They also hopefully will have the number one pick in the draft. They have Gonzalez. They have all this cap space. So if you're looking for him from the outside and you're somebody who actually knows your shit, that's a good job now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know if it was a good job a year ago. What was the job? It's like, I hope Drake May's good. And that's really about all you're bringing to the table. Now it's like, Yeah, we have Franchise QB. Like, you can really, like, build something. I just, like, we've seen it happen too many times. Like, Harbaugh goes into the Chargers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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They probably had more assets than we have heading into the offseason, but just the move from Brandon Staley to Harbaugh was worth five, six wins, and now they're in the playoffs. And it feels like the Pats, I don't, like, do you see their schedule? They're playing the NFC South next year. They're playing all the last place teams. Right. You think, like, would it be that hard to turn this around?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, Washington did it, right? Dan Quinn, they hired Adam Peters. They did all these super smart free agent signings of these kind of second tier dudes. They got Daniels, so they got their quarterback. And they immediately built a great team around them. A great team for what the ceiling was. They're going to be a 10-win team. I don't know. Nobody saw that coming. Your home team, the Chargers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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But I don't sense the appetite from them this year making a major move. So we'll see. And then Orlando at 43-1 is the only other one, just because they'll have their guys back at some point. The infrastructure they have with the defense and the coaching and the reps that they've been getting for dudes like Da Silva and Anthony Black and people like that. So, you know...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Okay. I just think you can kind of tell when an NFL coach doesn't have it at this point, you know? So anyway, we'll see what happens. Nerve wracking week 18 Pats game. That would be unbelievable if they lost, if they somehow beat the bills for no reason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Kyle and I watched it together. I know we ended up with Drake who might end up being the best guy out of all these guys though. So we're taping this for the Celtics little road trip here. Celtics are 24 and nine. You've been to a bunch of the games. What's, what's not going well with this season. What's missing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I saw in person that Brooklyn game when they still had all their guys and those guys were going all out and it was going to be the highlight of their year if they beat the Celtics in Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And we're seeing a lot of that. You know, what's interesting about that though, because we've seen this go the other way after you win a title where you win the title and then the next year you're even better and more awesome. And you come in and now you have a chip on your shoulder in a good way. You're like, we're the champs and here's why.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I was leaning toward it being more of that kind of a season, but instead it's the, oh, we have an on-off switch button. We're always going to be able to turn it on if we need it, which I can't say I was really expecting because Tatum and Brown have been healthy this whole season. Usually when you have your two best guys, That's going to push you a certain way, but it hasn't happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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To me, the best odds are Cleveland, 11-1. I'll go along with that. I don't have any argument with that. I think they're favored in the first two rounds. It's probably going to be... I don't know. Whoever it is in round three, and it might not be my team, but game seven will be in Cleveland. That's not nothing. So a couple over-unders really quick. Celtics, 59 and a half just seems way too high.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You see, my fear with that is they just were putting way more miles on him than they wanted to this season because of the Porzingis piece and because Cornette got hurt. And, you know, it just... And I just wonder if they kind of put too many miles on the car ride for Al.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, Al's down to... He's shooting 42% from the field, 36% from three this year. But he's playing around the same minutes and playing more games than they probably... You know, we're hoping. He's played 26 of the first 33 games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I will say, if we go positive, I think Tatum's been exceptional. I think Tatum and Brown. Yeah. Brown, there's a couple shot selection things with him sometimes, but he's always playing hard. I don't really love that little... He added this weird... I don't know if he was working out all summer, that weird little turnaround at the foul line that he tries to do all the time now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I think it's gone in twice. But both of those guys are playing hard. But Tatum's been... Just awesome. I mean, he's 28, 10 and six every night. His three point shots back. He plays super hard on both ends. I don't feel like from an effort standpoint, you never see him mail it in. He really gives a shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Portals always kind of kills us, though. The other thing that changed, Derek White was awesome the first five weeks. I'm looking at it. I'm just looking at the stats quick. Yeah. His, his, all his stats were down in December and he seemed like he was banged up in a couple of different ways. So you had holiday who's been off and on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You have white who definitely was not a hundred percent as we left December. So that's why I like we're taping this before this little West coast trip they have where every game they have on the trip is hard. And last year, I would have said, they're going to rip through this trip, right? They're going to lay the smack down. They'll go 4-0 or 3-1. This year, I have no idea what to expect.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You can tell me any scenario, and I would believe it. You can tell me they're going to 0-4 on the trip, and I wouldn't be, like, shocked. Last year, I would have been shocked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. Well, they're playing teams. First of all, Minnesota was always a good matchup. against, they always played really well against the Celtics. Denver, Jokic has always been awesome, so that's the last game. And then in the middle, it's Houston and OKC. Houston's a bunch of fucking pit bulls. They're terrifying. And then OKC's the best team in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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They're 24 and nine. That 59 and a half basically is 23 losses. That's 14 more the rest of the way. They can't seem to get anybody healthy. I also don't really think they care about the one seed. Golden State is still 45 and a half, and they're 16 and 16 heading into tonight. What world are they winning 46 games unless there's a major trade coming that I can't anticipate?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But Shingun's a good example of what you were saying earlier, where there's going to have to be stretches where Tatum actually has to guard Shingun. I think the thing that they really lost this year so far, and I'm not panicking by any means, but just last year with the lineups, they could go small, they could go big, they could basically do whatever they wanted each game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And just because they haven't had all the guys together, they're kind of stuck with lineups certain night, and I think it becomes easier for teams. Also, teams know that they're going to shoot 53s a game. And sometimes those threes aren't going in the same way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So yeah, it's a work in progress. Not panicking. I think the only thing short term is... The Knicks might pass them. The Knicks might win the division. The Knicks, I think, were plus 260 on FanDuel, and they're a half game back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And I don't think they're going to catch Cleveland as the one seed. That's just a fact. I don't think they're going to have home court in round three or round four this year. And last year, it really mattered.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It just seems like he's had the worst luck where it's like he's almost even odds to step on somebody else's foot at all times in every game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Yeah. It feels like a two or a three seed. I don't think they catch Cleveland. How many times has Wick Grosbeck been to a game this year? Is he still coming at the same frequency or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because that's another one. I think that was all supposed to be settled right around now, but I think they have so many suitors. The process is taking longer and it's probably going to push to March now. I had always been told it was going to happen sooner than that, but I just think there's a lot of people kicking the tires on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's probably May. I mean, I should be saying... No, I know everyone loves Tatum, but I don't think people understand how popular May is with the Patriots fans. I should be saying Tatum, but I really think it's May.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What do you think it is? I know, but what do you think it is that he's resonating with the fans like this? Other than that, it's just so hard to get a franchise quarterback potentially.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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With decent receivers, too. That's the other thing. Well, that's the other thing. And that's what I've been trying to tell people. Watching what he's doing with the supporting cast he has, with the play calling, with the offensive line, it's kind of... I can't believe he's even upright.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And there's been so many times when it just seems like three guys were going to sack him and he turns the corner or buys some time. Yeah, it's... I, it certainly worked out way better than we ever in a million years could have expected. Right. Well, I mean, I will say though, Tatum is like coming back for a couple of games this year. Tatum really is beloved. I mean, he's hit that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It feels like he's hit that final level of Boston athletes. So it's a good battle. I just think Drake's the new shiny toy. Tatum was like this as a rookie, right? When he came in and we were all like, Oh my God, Tatum, like we could all see it. And the main thing reminds me of that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, it's just, there's more football fans too, I think is the other piece.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, that's a hard under for me. Go ahead. Well, just Clippers 46 and a half. That would make me blink just because of the injury potential. The miles are putting on hard and I don't know what they're getting from Kawhi when he comes back, but the golden state line, I, I don't see that we're already in on Indy 43 and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, can you imagine ever going to any of those games? No. How depressing that would be. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You know, speaking on the most popular athlete thing, I think Jalen's climbing the ladder too. Jalen's 2024 was really incredible for what he meant to the city, the stuff he does off the court. The fact that he came through, him and his relationship with Tatum together, to me, that's about as good of a top three as we've had in a while with the two Celtics in May.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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The Red Sox have this really interesting farm system thing brewing, like this Roman Anthony. I mean, we've had this happen before, but it really does seem like their farm system's pretty crazy loaded.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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We'll see what Drake makes. So we're not going to see you in Foxborough on Sunday for Bill's Pets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Aren't you hoping Miami trades Jimmy and makes a dumb trade? Yeah, I am. I'm really hoping this somehow doesn't work out. They're in a very strange spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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All right, Dad. Happy New Year. Thanks for the report. Good to see you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to my dad. Thanks to Joe House. Thanks to Sean Fennessy. Thanks to Saruti and Kyle Gahow as always. Happy New Year. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday with Cousin Sal. Don't forget, we are doing it live. on my YouTube channel, the Bill Simmons channel. So right after the game ends, we'll be going on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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We did the over, even though there's 16, 18, they're minus two 50 to make the playoffs. Um, Minnesota, you mentioned, They're minus 340 to make the playoffs right now, even though they're 17 and 15. So I think people are agreeing with the way you saw big picture what's happening with them. But their over-under is 47 and a half now, which seems too high to me. It's high. That's high.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We'll be talking about guessing the playoff odds, all the playoff implications of the games on Sunday, Lions-Vikings breakdown, everything you want. We're going to have all of it. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Saturday. Must be 21 plus and president in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and president in D.C. Gambling problem?

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Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn.

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In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline is here, by the way. Just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn.

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That's a tough stretch. Yeah, that means they'd have to go 31 and... like 19, rest of the way, something like that, 31 and 18. I don't see it. OKC, 62 and a half is the over-under now. They're 27 and five. I think they get it. I would still be bullish on that. Wouldn't you? Sure, it's fine. I feel like it's shocking every time they lose.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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They'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Verbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Friday Night Lights, the movie, me and Mallory Rubin. We did it as a video podcast on Spotify, but you can listen to it anywhere. You can also watch it on YouTube on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel.

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The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

906.99

It feels mid-60s to me, unless there's another injury. Plus, they haven't even gotten chip back. So here are the two hardest for me. Phoenix was 45 and a half right now. They're minus 134 to make the playoffs. So people are putting a lot of faith into something turning around here. They're 15 and 17. I just, like, even their last 20 games, they're 6 and 14. They're minus 3.1 net rating.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

937.157

We really need this. This would be the first boost, season boost that we've lost. We had our boost this year was Cleveland and Phoenix to win 45 plus, OKC to win 55 plus. And that's what we boosted on Fando. We're going nuts for it. I don't know if Phoenix gets to 45 wins. Do you see it? What's missing with them other than they're the worst centers in the league?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

983.446

And they're going to be this high scoring, like super fun, entertaining team that just is winning 120 to 115. Yeah. And they're not that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1007.793

The only thing with Przingis was talent wise and how it allowed them to be different, made a lot of sense, but you knew that for him to opt in, to do the trade and then to give him the extension or like that dude gets hurt a lot. And he's missed 65 games of the Celtics. And you know, do they win last year without him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1022.082

probably uh i know he's had some nice moments and then of course you have this the end of this year where you know watching this pacers nicks thing you're just going like perzingis killed i mean there's a bunch of things went wrong for the celtics and i want to recap that series again with you but you're just like having you know here's the pacers trying to survive with turner and then tony bradley's playing now because thomas bryant is just not um a solution and then they had the hand thing

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1047.924

And that's like, man, Tony Bradley's out there running around for a few minutes and you're up in this series. A Knicks team that just destroyed Boston around the paint and just was the more physical and just the bigger basketball team throughout all this. It feels like an answer. I'm not sitting here saying you're crazy because the more you think about it, the less crazy it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1070.456

I would push back on if you go from January 1st to February 1st that the Pacers are playing at the same level as other top teams. Net rating-wise, it isn't. Like, those other teams were just far superior statistical profile teams than what the Pacers were. But it does feel like an answer... I don't know if I'd go far superior. Because...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1090.097

They were in the top five or six for the last 50 plus games. I don't know. I mean, I've got it up in front of me now. OKC was plus 13. OKC, Boston, Cleveland were above everybody. Cleveland was plus eight. Clippers are plus seven. Indiana were like plus five and a half. Yeah. Great call. Plus five and a half. 34 and 14 in the last 48.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1130.827

Let's do it then. I mean, do you think open market like Marcus Smart a couple years, Jared Allen right now, it's the same demand?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1182.049

That's fine. The Allen part of it. I guess I was thinking of some of the more aggressive stuff that we've tossed around with Cleveland. But yeah, I think... No, I just think the default is... And we've already done this, but the Cavs go on... hey, look, we didn't have them over the game too, you know, whatever. Like that's usually I think what teams do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1201.294

Like if you talk to teams, you'd be like, hey, what went wrong? And they'll paint the picture of like the things that wouldn't be repeated the next time around. The problem is you have the Mitchell history and never getting out of the second round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1212.745

Like I thought they'd figured some stuff out where I, you know, other playoff years, I'd look at them after the series is over and go, do they have like just real fundamental problems? And I don't know that I feel that same way about him, even if history tells you that they're the exact same team. But again, they were just so good in the regular season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1227.916

I don't know that I'd be in a hurry to be take. It's one thing if there's a trade that presents itself where you feel like, hey, talent wise, we're at the same level and maybe we're a little more malleable in the playoffs and maybe just allows Mobley to. to turn it into this whole deal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1241.125

But then I think you almost would need a center again instead of just running Mobley out there for like 36 minutes a night playing center, especially with how big the league is and how, you know, these teams are going back to playing a real center and a power forward.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1253.075

The thing that I would get back to like 20 minutes later here is just, is this the kind of answer where a year or two years from now, you're like, Holy shit. Like we even asked that question because it does feel a little like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1283.64

Yeah, and by the way, if everybody had been healthy in a full year with all those guys, I thought they were going to be a really good team in the West again this year if they were ready to go in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1331.652

Let me ask you it this way. If you got the phone call and it was the owner of the Cavs, the owner of the Pacers, and the owner of, well, we can't even put the Celtics in here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1344.078

It's too much money. No, and you'd be too emotional about it. You'd be like, hold on, I've got to sit down first. Uh... If you were just the hot, like, hey, man, it's like Pete Woj. Pick a roster. Yeah, Pete Woj is like, look, he's been putting in the hours, the 20-plus years of hearing his thoughts on things. Like, out of this NBA owners meeting down here in Tampa, Bill Simmons is the story.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1369.553

They want to make this guy a GM. And you've got these three teams fighting over you. Pacers, Magic, Cavs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1377.079

Yeah. Right, right. And be like, all right, Bill, like, take your pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1475.009

They have swap rights with Dallas in 28. Yeah, in 28. Think about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1604.859

Yeah, I mean, clearly you can already see the replacement there. I don't know that Wallace, I mean, it doesn't have to be like a perfect fit because there's going to be some stuff that Dort can do against bigger guys. As much as we've all enjoyed watching Wallace grow into a player here, we didn't even mention Usman Jang. So, I mean, they unleashed that beast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1624.204

I would rather be expensive and worry about being expensive than be less talented and less expensive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1640.857

Yeah, but I think you're missing, like you're throwing a lot of like, hey, look at what this is going to be like and all the second apron stuff that we've been talking about the last few weeks and all of this looming. Yeah. I mean, sure, it'd be great if you were running a team that had some flexibility, but I'd rather have the talent first and then figure out

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1661.86

what my salary is going to look like as opposed to being cheaper going, do I have that kind of high-end talent?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

167.508

Look, the Thunder thing, you're right, whether it's roster or the flexibility of what all these future draft picks are going to be. And, you know, look in the future draft pick stuff. Sometimes it's like, oh, that didn't work out. And then there's like a pick in 2029 and you go, oh, my God, I can't believe that ended up happening. and you're going to have to sell me a little harder on the Pacers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1707.714

Yeah, I think he's going to be really good if he's healthy. I mean, he just has moments. I mean, he took Rudy. I mean, granted, game three, they got destroyed. Like, he had a play where, like, Rudy was on him. And, I mean, he worked him like he was a point guard. Yeah, and I went, holy shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1720.459

Like, he has these moments where, you know, more touches on a weaker team would probably mean his profile was even higher. But there's just, in the course of the way this team works, I mean, he's rarely going to be the first guy they're looking at unless the players run for him. That just doesn't happen very often. I'll tell you the same thing that I've said throughout all of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1741.039

Like if the Pacers end up in the finals, you know, who knows what happens there. OKC was a great shooting team. The kind of I don't know, like Thunder fans understand this, but I was going through their shooting numbers. And it really doesn't have anything to do with getting their ass kicked in Game 3, but they're just not shooting the ball well at all. And Denver made that gamble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1759.926

Yeah, Denver made that gamble. And I know, I think at some point we'll talk about the Western Conference Finals, but Denver makes that gamble. And, you know, sure, Game 7 goes the way it went, so it doesn't feel like they were in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1771.255

But, I mean, to get them to Game 7, considering what we thought about those two teams that closed the regular season, and you keep trying to figure out, like, the offensive rating's still pretty good for them for a bunch of different reasons. But this team has just not shot it well. at all. And they've been one of the best shooting teams in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1785.506

And it seems like, you know, Denver was the one to go, we're just going to find a way to sell out and not trust that those guys are going to hit their shots around you. And for the most part, they were right. So I don't think there is another argument though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1797.074

I think there's probably some women Yama stuff, but I feel like that is like rounding way up for anyone to pick San Antonio because of one guy versus what this roster has been from Presti. Did you see he might have grown?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1820.556

I hope he isn't 7'7. 7'7 is nuts. We talked about it in the draft. I mean, it's the first player I've ever heard of the agents trying to temper his true height the other way. He's definitely 7'5.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1874.141

Well, the number one rule that I always have is you can't fake desperate. And if you're any good and you're down 2-0 and you're going home, there's just no way the other team's going to come out of the tunnel with the same desperation that you have. Game two, Finch and the staff threw the kitchen sink defensively at OKC. And Finch talked about going back and watching the Denver series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

188.327

Like, this is a really nice run. It's awesome. They're up 2-0. There's tons of great things I want to say about the Pacers, but to map out the next five years of them being the franchise you want to be, you've got to sell me on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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Because if there was one concept for the Denver series, it was like once they got settled into that zone, they're like, look. if we can at least stop the first thing that they want to do, which is SGA coming downhill at the top of the key and Denver deserves credit for disrupting that part of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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And that's where the stuff we were talking about earlier with the gamble that you're willing to take going. I don't know if the guys around, SGA are going to hit enough threes and they still really haven't. I mean, you're right. Like these offensive numbers, I mean, 32% in the playoffs is 13 out of the 16 playoff teams. They were six best in the NBA this season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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Granted, you know, the number doesn't feel like it's that big of a difference at 37%. The offensive rating is okay. The defensive rating is off the charts. It's even two points better per 100 possessions than it was in the regular season when it was historically one of the best defensive ratings a team has had based on the differential from,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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the average defensive rating so they've cranked that part of it up even more but back to the original thing of like what you'd ask Minnesota clearly when they were just dazed again in that third quarter you could see like Finch's pulled Rudy then he's put him back in he's had him in drop I thought that they did less drop in game three when they went to zone they were a fucking mess because they know they don't play it and Finch had even said like we saw them do the zone stuff

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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so it was like hey we'll do some of that too and then minnesota's letting caruso and chet and these guys get this super easy catch that once you have that catch in the paint inside of the zone then everybody's scrambling and if you don't play it then it's just even nba players are going to be making mistakes being like wait where's like who am i helping off of or if i'm helping here am i is there somebody behind me and so that turned out to be a disaster so

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

1996.007

Look, it's great when Ant comes out and scores 16 points. It's great when the team starts shooting threes because so many of their guys have been abysmal on the Minnesota side of shooting threes in those first two games. But they were so much more aggressive to kind of getting back to who they are of just letting their athletes get after the ball handler. Your guy Shannon played.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2015.034

Do you know he's older than Ant? He's 25 in July. Come on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2037.759

I mean, the score was so one-sided that I don't know any of the tactical stuff necessarily, Matt. But game two, I thought, was defensive desperation. And I don't even mean that as a criticism, Bill. It's like, all right, we've got to figure something out. You could see at the very beginning of this series, SGA's like, oh, shit, I get to drive again? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2057.014

yeah and it was like all right this is finally like this is who i've been for six months i mean does that make sense to you that yeah we could talk tactics and all that stuff when you're down 20 like that um you know i don't even know i don't know if we'll see that zone again but it was i thought they were trying everything in game two and it was just a mess i agree um

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2129.454

Isn't Gobert crazy? Because it's like certain nights you just go, oh, thank God he's out there. You know, he's deterring some of these drives. And other times you just go like... And I think you've seen that from Finch throughout the playoffs. I mean, even going back to the Lakers series, there'll be these stretches. And I think that's kind of what playoff basketball is, is that the same...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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thing can look like a completely different product 48 hours later but rudy has has had moments where it's like thank god for rudy and then other times you're like all right finch is going to get him out of there then he had one possession where i i saw like he tried to go small and then he was i think it was game two and finch is just so frustrated i think he put rudy right back in the game because he was like all right whatever like i'd

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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it was like such a bad defensive possession. Do you, do you have anything like, is there any part of you with OKC as we looked at this final four being like, this is their title to lose. Does, is there any resetting for you at all with that kind of result in game three?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

236.002

Milwaukee, I think you throw in there as a like, do you want to pick them? Probably not. No, I don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2385.623

Well, I think some of the three-point shooting numbers that we talked about would be part of that. I mean, when they were having some of those bad closes against Denver and then that entire storyline shifted when Denver looked like the disastrous team late and then they win game six with having the Strother game. Yeah. you know, sometimes you're like, okay, so, okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2403.046

See, only played 24 clutch games. Does that mean that they're less comfortable in clutch games and all this other stuff? And you're like, I don't know if they played in seven more clutch games, then they would, they would be, I mean, it just sounds good because you have something to point to and say, Hey, nobody's played in less clutch games. They're, they're,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2418.132

But over a quarter of their games were still technically clutch games in the regular season. It's not like they played four of them out of 82. So I think it sounded really good. It was hard for me to buy it. And then guess what happened? The better team ended up figuring it out. The team with the MVP figures it out. And you expect the shooting variance at some point to kick in here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2439.34

But if you're trying to figure out how do you get your ass kicked that bad, Maybe part of it is like Minnesota, I think, is good. I'm surprised that at least one of those games in OKC wasn't a down-to-the-wire game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

245.585

I thought about it because for all of those reasons, but this almost feels like, can I take the field? Um, which isn't fair and it isn't the right answer, but right. As great as this Pacers thing is. And we were texting this morning about it. I brought up in the pod this week, like this is really great, but it's also usually not the way it works.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2535.677

But it only happens when the other guys are making shots. So when you have Nas miss 17 straight threes, DiVincenzo, who, you know, I don't always love every coach after a game being like, I liked our looks. Right. I've yet to ever hear a coach. I don't know if I've heard a coach. I mean, it's probably been said at some point, like, you know, we didn't have a lot of good ones tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2554.655

Yeah. DiVincenzo, who I would agree with Finch, like, I've liked so many of his looks. He's going to be better than 5'18". Granted, he hit two in game three, but he only took three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2564.736

I mean, granted, some of the overall stats, again, from game three, I don't even know necessarily what they'll mean because you're down 20, 30 minutes after you're tying your shoes if you're on the Thunder side of things. But none of the Ant stuff works unless these guys are making shots. And for... The first two games, it was pretty abysmal. Minnesota was under 30%.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2586.13

And then I think the other part is kind of the Randall, it's getting close to midnight conversation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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of if you look at who he was in those first two series and you go on any metric you want to look at and who he has been throughout his career in the playoffs and like it just ends up being part of the national broadcast i know they have access to these guys and it's like you know people doubted this guy like well no shit we doubted him in the playoffs like give me the evidence that told me i was supposed to be psyched about it and he played the

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2616.812

Great. And his matchups, he was like, when he got LeBron on him, seeing it live and seeing it on TV, he was like, let's go. It was shocking. Draymond, very honest, which is sometimes surprising. And he talked about how much Siakam had eaten him up and how much Randall had taken him out in his matchup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2638.024

But granted, I think Draymond in that series against Minnesota was tasked with doing a ton of stuff. So I don't look at like I don't look at Draymond's defensive runs in the playoffs against Houston and Minnesota. And I'm not sitting here upset because I think he was asked to do a ton of stuff for the most part battle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

265.253

And as much fun as it is in the depth and Halliburton kind of reminding people like what he can be, um, It's just hard for me to be like, yeah, I want to be the team that doesn't have a top 10 player in the NBA. Like give me that for the next five years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2651.391

But you look at it and you're like, holy, like, do you realize like how special Randall has been with these 10 games? And it's like, OK, well, now you get OKC and it's not just the primary defender.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2661.956

it's all of that other stuff that's happening and immediately like the start of game one it's like hey this back down turn dribble thing that takes a little while for you to set up so randall not being that secondary on ball creator and getting benched in game two which is all you need to know like hey i wonder how they feel about him well he played 32 of the first 36 minutes and now he's not going to play any of the fourth quarter they had it to 103 90 and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2700.737

It looked weird. I'll admit my first instinct now in any social clip is that I don't believe that is the thing that's being told me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2717.645

right then you realize oh they did ai with this i think i fell for one of those once but i didn't repost or anything i was like holy shit harbaugh's like letting him like i know harbaugh and i was like oh i was like i don't think he'd say bitches though yeah i saw that clip i mean if that's what it ended up being you know um he handled it the right way and i also think there's a part of this too with uh

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2739.025

With OKC, it's incredibly frustrating. And that first game was frustrating. I mean, SGA has seven free throws at the seven-something mark of the first quarter. And when Jaden chucked him during game two, I kind of liked it. People just could pile that in to be like, oh, they're breaking at the seams. The Timberwolves are just so frustrated. I didn't kind of like it. I loved it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2762.404

That's like the blast we grew up with. Yeah, and then it kind of gets packages like, oh, this shows that Minnesota's breaking. It's like, no, I think he's just pissed and he's sick of this guy. And by the way, that's not... SGA's free throws to me are not necessarily even the story, the outcome of the first two games here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2802.818

When he fell down and they challenged it and the official was pissed at Alexander Walker for being like, Alexander Walker was unhinged because he knew. He's like, he just fell down. And then the ref kind of looked at him. And I can't imagine being a ref and having guys yell at you for two and a half hours. Eventually you get sort of defensive and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2820.054

you know, all these guys that testosterone is flying around and the official gave it this like, look like, Hey, you know, you fouled them and it's on him. And it's like a little extra emphasis on what he's doing back to the score table. And you see the review and you're like, yeah, he just fell down. That's why those guys were all losing their minds. So,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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They definitely got way too caught up in all that stuff. I think Minnesota's a good team. I wasn't going to pick them in this series. I thought the odds were a little crazy. Then the odds looked like they might have been too low with the way the Thunder controlled those third quarters. The stuff that the Thunder can go to here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2850.964

But, you know, there's a Randall piece and the three-point piece that makes Ants night. Like, it's predetermined. If Randall can't do anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2921.002

Yeah, look, the Caruso foul game was game two. I just don't know what any of the stats will mean from any of the guys. And then, you know, they were talking about it because I was watching the broadcast a little bit with game three with... with Ruko legs and our guy, Kirk Goldsberry. And I watched some of that too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2954.876

He's been great. Can you give me an actor equivalent of like 20 years later? It's like, man, we appreciate this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

2981.078

I'm trying to do a Travolta here for you. Travolta's peaks were higher than earlier's legs' peaks. So Travolta just went away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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It's not. He was literally six feet under in the ground and came back. But he had these peaks. I don't think there's a Saturday Night Fever for legs. What I'm trying to think of is the actor who has been around forever and then later on. It's like a Liam Neeson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3017.296

It might be. Because he was around. But I mean, I think it felt like he was having a bit of a comeback with The Fugitive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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Where he played the same character for a decade. Legs is doing great. That might be it. No Country for Old Men. It's like you can build the whole thing around this guy. Did you not realize this? He's been here the whole time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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It goes back to your Pacers point, right? Because if this is real, if this is normal, this is the way you want to build your team. This goes against anything we've ever accepted.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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And for those listening, Bill did a thing where his balance was to his side. I did a thing with my arm. I did a fake human seesaw. Imagine a plane and its wings dipping a bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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But what'll happen is everyone will agree with you and say that this now is different. And as I've said this entire time, like, I would need to have this happen. This would have to be the new normal for me to accept that this is the shift and that the league has changed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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I still will refuse to believe that the outcome of this league will be dictated by players outside of the top 10 consistently.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3316.312

And there's also a study that says icebergs have gotten bigger for the first time. Global warming is maybe over the salary cap. I don't know that I believe that it's over, but there's data, there's new data bill.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3332.91

Well, hey, if you want to hit me with all of the guys that are the marquee names and they're all kind of heading towards the end of this whole thing. Yeah, you're right. Luka on the Lakers. I mean, if you're asking me, like, hey, new teams are going to start winning. It's like, well, no shit. Like sports are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3375.492

Yeah, I did. It's a really interesting spot. I saw some bad like, hey, package all four like it's the NFL draft. Like that is one of the biggest disconnects of all time. Like if you were in the NFL and you say, I'll give you 12, 17 and 20. Like, who knows? Like you might be able to get it up the top five. The NBA when it's like we don't want 2021 and 27. Like that's not going to get you. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3398.574

Uh, even though obviously Brooklyn's first pick is a lot higher than that. I was, as I've mentioned, but even, even in the NBA, like if you're sitting there with eight and two other firsts, like, Hey, can we get to four? No. In the NFL, you could. The NBA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3417.185

I don't think you could get to fourth. You don't think Charlotte? You think Charlotte wants four more rookies? No. No one wants four more rookies, by the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3442.082

Yeah, but even the most confident... GM isn't going to assume that he's going to hit on all four first round picks. And then they're going to be rotational pieces for a team that when Philly's healthy has, you know, Eastern conference finals, aspirations, championship aspirations. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3510.053

They have the Utah top eight, right? Top eight, right. Did you just say that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

353.769

Harper definitely wants to get his points. So if we were doing it, I'm not really ready for it. But if we were doing a draft conversation, like the craziest thing about some of these picks is you go, all right, even if you love Harper and you should draft based on talent, you shouldn't be drafting on fit, especially when you don't really know who you are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3626.052

You'd think Utah, if there's somebody that's available, that the agent says, yeah, my guy will stay there. Because the idea of Utah taking another rookie guard, I mean, unless the evaluation, they just look at him and go, hey, he's better than everybody we already have. And this was an upset. He shouldn't have been here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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Maybe it's just because I think Edgecombe should be in the conversation with the other two Rutgers guys. I knew you were going to be in this corner. I've been waiting for it. I need to do more work, but I am a little surprised that after the combine, whether during the combine or after it's like, okay, well, clearly we know who number one is and then it's Harper and then it's everybody else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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And Harper's shooting is better than his numbers. The reason his three-point shooting percentage is way lower than you would want is because he takes some terrible shots, which a lot of really big-time, high-profile high school guys come in being like, you know, I've got to take these to show that I'll take them. So Harper, I think, is going to be a better shooter than the numbers are. prove out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

371.907

But you're like, how do you play Harper off of De'Aaron Fox?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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And he does so many really good things like running the high pick and roll that you see all the time and all this stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3718.232

And like, you know, Castle's had a really nice year and he certainly seems to have the mentality of like, you would think he's going to attack this as a competitor, that he's going to care, you know, that he's going to love basketball and he's going to be frustrated in those moments where he feels like he's not good enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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Like it was just everything, you know, we're always trying to guess with any of these guys, but I don't feel like I see the same separation between Harper and Edgecombe that the draft conversation seems to be at right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

375.831

like it's especially if you think like san antonio with a healthy women yama is going to be a real player in the west um and then you know you think about ace bailey standing around watching his other guys and and look he got used to standing around because he watched harper and played with him so that in itself is like a really interesting conversation because they're not used to having these teams pick um

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3759.638

Oh, no. Yeah. Tatum was like consensus mock third. I just thought, at the time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3768.992

Yeah. But everybody knew it was going to be going first. Right. And everybody knew Lonzo was going to the Lakers. So at least that was a little bit more accepted. It just, you know, Ace Bailey, if he was better, is your number two guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3791.497

Okay. But remember, We're going off, and I hate the league did this, and I'm probably one of the few people that even cares about this. No shoes? The no shoes thing, like Harper's listed at 6'6", and he measures 6'4 and a half with no shoes. So now it's presented as this huge disappointment, or like, what the hell's going on with these college programs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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Like, I think one year in lacrosse, one of my roommates, just like, they were like, hey, what are you? And he was like, 6'4, 230. Yeah. And I didn't even think he was six feet. And they just let him do it. So that's been going on in college for years and years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3825.689

I mean, it's probably a little bit tighter when you're one of the top players in the high school circuit and then you end up at a D1 program. But Harper is listed at 6'6". And then he's six, four and a half. And so it's the same thing with Ace. It's like, oh, I thought this guy was 6'10". 6'10 from six, seven and a half is a little bit different.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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But it frustrates me because then you've just, I mean, I know the simple thing is like, well, hey, now they're just not in shoes. So factor that in. But then it gets relayed as if all these guys are just across the board comically shorter than all their listed heights. Like Flag was another one. Yeah, well, it's because they used to let them up until very recently.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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The official measurement was the measurement in shoes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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Well, maybe they were just like some stability. Maybe it's a lot of tariffs, Bill. It's like we need you're going to have to take your medicine. Yeah. OK, but but trust us on this one. Not a statement, not a position, just obviously the rationale behind it. And maybe the NBA is looking the same way. Like, well, he's going to just start tariffing everybody. Maybe we can start tariffing height.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

3929.869

They don't turn the ball over a lot. That's true. That's for sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4119.329

The Dallas thing is good, but I remember just having Mashburn around, who just was one of my favorites back in the day, the early ESPN stuff. And he was like, it was that bad. It was just that bad. Yeah. And so... you know, when you're with it every single day, it's easy for us to be like, how could you ever be in the business of wanting to move off from Jason Kidd?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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But then again, you know, of his own doing, it led to another transaction later on for him. So I was just talking about Kidd, I think with Raja the other day and, you know, his highlights hold up in a way where I like watch the highlights and I fear we're never going to see anything like it. I go, are we ever going to be this lucky to see a player that could see the game this way?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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what are you talking about but when you run through all the known versus unknown if the pace is your answer you're like okay that's the known but there's also the turner part of it that you're always bringing up and that this group does not pay the luxury tax and turner you know is going to be whatever you think of him um he's especially in this free agent class

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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And you knew when you were watching it even back when he was playing in college. You're like, dude, there's something incredibly special about this guy. He has this awesome career and the whole thing. I don't know that we're putting Halliburton on that level, but I like what you're doing because you're trying to figure out why would you have moved on from it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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I think the funniest thing about the Sabonis-Halliburton deal is that it happens. It's like, how do you do, you can't, no one ever does a deal like this. No one ever takes a lottery pick and then moves on from him this quickly, especially when it looks like you got it right with the pick and you can't believe he fell to where he fell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4196.568

Right. But then it, it's like, oh, here we go again with Sacramento. And then Sabonis makes all NBA two seasons. And it's kind of funny. Yeah. You look at, and you also look at like Sabonis' career stuff. Yeah. This year, everybody's like, no, thanks. Right. Because the numbers are still really, really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4219.088

But it's pretty clear, like when he's your center, there are just limitations on what you can do. But Sacramento to even have that that high seed a few years ago, like how can you get on their case when they took a surplus and added a need and it's work and it's work for a team that doesn't really get to sniff in this area. But, you know, now we get to like we're we relitigate this trade so much.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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that I think it just proves once again you can't ever give up on lottery talent so you think it worked even if you think it's redundant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4258.225

Well, yeah. I mean, did you think at the time... Did you think at the time it's like, hey, trade Fox? Because De'Aaron felt like he... You know, of all the things that I prioritize, and I've talked about it, but like, can you get your own when it matters? And De'Aaron's that guy. It's always felt like he's more that guy than Halliburton is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

435.737

despite the irony of it feeling like he'd been available on the trade market for years, that he provides something to them. And, you know, 20 million a year in this new NBA world is probably not going to cut it. But that's like a minor issue compared to some of the other, obviously, like when you look at the Celtics with all this stuff, I guess I still would rather.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4471.519

I do. Look, you can just tell a lot based on sub-patterns, too, because in that fourth quarter there, he doesn't go back to Cat until it feels like they need his offense because he didn't... I think it was... I mean, I've got it somewhere here, but he was in at 225 when it was 110-101. So at that point, you figure he's coming in because...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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they got to make up the nine points somehow and they're willing to give up. I mean, he was subbed out with nine minutes to go. I thought the other great thing was that the Pacers won that start of the fourth quarter. Cause I thought in game one, they were losing the game because of how bad they were when Brunson goes out with a foul trouble. And then it's a 10 Oh run like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4510.778

And two minutes ago, this is supposed to be, I mean, even would be a disappointment because Brunson is out in these minutes right now. And you may have just lost this game with OG getting a couple buckets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4519.95

So if Tibbs is taking out Cat with nine minutes to go in the fourth quarter and they're not really making up any ground and then he brings him back into 225, he realizes how much of an issue Cat is. And I think you said something because sometimes it is very straightforward. It's let's get the switch on Cat. Let's see what we have. Let's attack. But for Boston, it was always just that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4541.986

right it was always just that there's been a couple things and it even takes me like a second time to notice it where it's like you think we're switching into the cat hunt here with the ball handler but we're really doing is there's this other thing where somebody's like crossing underneath it and that's really what the whole play is because we've shown you this it just I know what you're saying.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4571.821

Or we're using the first screen. The first screen doesn't really even matter. So Cat's overplaying and he's freaked out, but actually what he has to do is make up ground and follow that his first primary defensive assignment is now actually setting a screen for somebody else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4587.015

So now you're like, well, shit, I was worried about Halliburton at first, but now I don't know if I'm supposed to take the cutter or stay with my original guy. And so it's just a little bit, I don't know how many times this happens, but it's not just, hey, high pick and roll, even though there's plenty of that. I mean, Halliburton, when I was watching game two, I'm kind of like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4603.61

getting frustrated even with Halliburton dancing with Mitchell Robinson for such a long time. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But you're like, okay, this is a little predictable and it's getting a little late in the shot clock. I could totally understand being a Celtics fan and watching some of this stuff going, it was all right there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4619.616

And when Cat's not the one to attack, Brunson's the one to attack. And why is that complicated?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4641.038

Siakam has been killing them on leaking out. And, you know, I was very critical of Siakam after the first game. Cause I went, you know, this is kind of who I like some good numbers and, you know, in the playoffs, he hasn't shot it really well from distance the last four years of being in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4657.156

And, you know, there's a marginal decline in place, which isn't, you know, the end of the world or anything like that. But, He's so big, and you're like, there's no matchup for him out there. There's no matchup for him. Is it as simple as, hey, it's OGs on him, and we know how disastrous that was for any ball handler with the Celtics going at OG.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4672.387

But the fact that they, early on, were like, we want to get you going, and then he starts hitting everything. And those were really nice shots from Siakam, too. That mid-post, back into you, hit you, fade away. But I wouldn't be shocked for New York matching, even though it's on the road, New York matching. Again, we don't know what's going to happen here tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4692.972

Do you think there's this massive gap between these two teams? Because I do. I don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4744.619

Bridges has taken 17 shots per game. So maybe we have seen, I just, every time with him, I feel like he finds a way to get space into a really great look.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4761.231

He has body control. He bends and nobody blocks it. I don't know what his testing would be. I don't know if it would show up even in the three cone with him. He had two plays in game two. One was the fast break football outlet to him where he has only... a foot to catch it and stop to then get up and still make the layup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4784.412

And you're thinking like, first of all, the pass is great and it hits him and it, but his feet were going to be wrong. And it was like, I've got to catch this and then get my feet right. And then still go up and finish. And it was awesome. And then he had another play where he comes baseline, he turns and it looks like anybody else's body would just like over rotate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4802.226

Because if he was trying to like pull a trick on a snowboard and he gets to And I know there's other players that are athletic enough to do this stuff, but he gets turned where you'd think his body would keep going. And then it just kind of stops in midair because he has such great body control so that he's able to get himself squared up and everything. And I don't I don't know that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4818.333

Look, when he's going to the side and those hard dribbles that we saw even in the last round, when he would have that that huge fourth quarter moment in game two. When he gets all that momentum going with his dribble to one side and then he's pulling up with his length and the way he's leaning, you're just not contesting that shot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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So I know he's taking 17 shots a game here and I'm saying, hey, more bridges. But I don't like it when he gets through these stretches where it's, you know, he's just kind of stuck in the corner. I think we saw probably maybe too much of that in the regular season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4941.126

If Maxie goes 3, I mean, you're not going to drop LaMelo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4974.741

Normally, I'd rather have scoring than defense. I like where this is going. I do. I think whatever the end of this season is for Minnesota, it feels like a win on the development part of Jaden McDaniels because he's never going to be the first or second option for this team. Yes, he gets stuck in the corner a lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

4993.938

He may never really develop into a guy who we can run some stuff for him with the ball in his hands on the other side. But whereas like there's some players I go, that's never going to happen. And it's still like unlikely for Jaden. There's a lot I really like about him, even though Bane has just been a flamethrower since he stepped in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

501.284

It's probably even higher than that. Yeah. I know like I had a huge shock of game one thing. Where I'm like, he has to initiate more, and then he comes out and almost drops 40 on him in game two. So he was terrific. He was great. I feel like he's, what, in the top 30?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5019.796

He's in the gym a lot, it seems like. So he's almost... Bane is... I'm doing an age thing here. Uh... Bain is almost 27. Yeah. And Jaden is... He's two years younger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5127.491

This is funny because I didn't think I'd spend my Sunday Memorial Day weekend going, who says no between Denny and Vassell? It's an unexpected joy for you. You know, people were like, you get a lot of work this weekend. I was like, yeah, kind of. Like, you're going to have any fun? You're going to have any fun? And I was like, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5153.752

I'm still kind of holding out, like, I think Denny's going to be pretty good, and maybe is more, there's a little bit more to Avdija than there is Vassell, but I think Vassell's the more proven, like, hey, come in and get buckets and score and give us spacing and all that kind of stuff, where, I mean, Denny's just so aggressive in the rebounding and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

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I can't believe Pritchard's still on the board for years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5226.675

This is where it gets exciting. I'll admit with Okongwu, I always think he's better. No, I always think he's better. I think they think he's better. They finally made the change this year. And maybe it's just the idea of him. Or maybe they were, I don't know, they were trying to keep the... keep his value down a little. I don't, I don't know. I kind of like, like him. Me too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5255.867

And basically this feels like property with me and the Congo Island. This feels like a make or break a Congo season. How's that? I think that's totally fair. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5274.277

He already has the extension of the super easy number here, but he Pritchard, No, no, no. I meant Okonwu. I'm still on him. Because he only started 40 games this year, but it was very clear after never starting any games. I mean, he did technically start games. It feels like Okonwu time is on the horizon down there in Atlanta.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5299.435

No, honestly, with Pritchard, I think he... is more adaptable to what you need from him where if quickly just doesn't get, you know, 16 shots against the second unit and look quickly was awesome a couple of years ago. Okay. Yeah. But it was very clear. It was like, Hey, it's quickly time. And I think he needs that freedom to be as impactful where Pritchard is Pritchard, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5325.792

I mean, it's not just the dribble pull-ups. It's not just the dribble drives, which he got really good at, I thought, this year. But it's also the catch and shoot. So I think he's a little bit more versatile in how you can use him as an offensive player, where for the most part, it's like quickly just going to go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5388.877

Um, this was not considered a great draft by the way. Also city Bay's healthy. Who knows? You know, maybe he's in the conversation. Uh, But you're right. Like, I'm shocked because I do it usually around this time every year. And I probably have a segment via slow opening monologue night before.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5406.793

But the number of guys that are in the top 10 and how rare it is now, like for that person to be on the team that drafted them. And I mean, the team that actually like has them, not the draft rights thing, which can make it even more confusing. How many of those guys get to their fourth year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5423.041

I think one stretch I did it over like a five year stretch and it was, it was less than 50% of the guys in the top 10. Cause we knew that was always my point of like, you know, Oh cool. I'm trading picks in the twenties all the time. Like who gives a shit? And history still tells you like there's a significant drop off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5440.441

And when you're grabbing a rotational guy that's going to make it to his second contract somewhere in the 20s, that's a massive win. Also speaks to your boy, Ainge, too, because you start going through this Ainge draft where it felt like Boston had a Richard Rob Williams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5456.425

I mean, he's he's had some really good picks that like, hey, that guy's going to play like 10 years. So, yeah. So as I talked about the 20 stuff, which we've talked about for a really long time, teams were on this for a long time. I always felt like those picks were just a little overrated, but it sounded really cool to be like, hey, this expiring bet or whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5472.27

And like, you know, it depends if he's expiring and you're getting something. So I'm not criticizing that transaction. But then it's like, OK, so that means all the top 10 picks are really valuable. And then you look at those and you go, my God. Yeah, this isn't this is where the stars are. So that means a chance at one of them is valuable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5491.018

But the return on even the guys in the top 10, you'd be shocked. And I'll do it again this year. But you'd be shocked how many times the guy is not even on the team in the fourth year of the rookie contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5520.756

Yeah, well, the problem for him was that team in Kentucky was loaded. So, yeah, 13th pick would call.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5559.653

Uh, that's, that's not, I, you gave me this like one minute before I jumped into the zoom. Um, it was like 20.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5577.204

I think there's going to be three major name transactions. I do. Because I think one will go, and then the other teams that we're working on at all offseason are going to feel left out. And I'd imagine one of those top five picks is moved.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5593.773

Yeah, but it also could be maybe Utah just says we have to do something like we have to figure out a way to package this unless they get done with the entire draft thing and they go, hey, look, Edgecombe fell to us. The Kyrie thing was kind of a joke, though, because I was thinking about his negotiation and he can opt out of the 44 million this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5614.784

And you're thinking, OK, but what what do I have to pay you? And you're not going back to the Nets. Like the one team with all this cap space isn't going to the Nets. And now if you're Kyrie's representation, you can go. It doesn't matter what our leverage is or isn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5636.291

Yeah, but it was almost like they admitted we had to give him this because what we gave up for him. And you're like, OK, you could argue it's going to be the exact same thing that he's going to get everything that he wants because of even with the number one pick and bringing in flag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5652.735

It's like, so wait, you're going to play hardball with me now, though, when you talked about this, this window and wanted to build this team around me and Anthony Davis. So I was trying to be cute with it. I don't actually believe that that would happen, but. I don't know what Brooklyn's going to do with all of their cap space.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5667.959

Would Detroit try to, and they might not have enough space with the way that Cade's contract goes up a little bit here, but would they just go, Hey, we'll give you the full four years to Miles Turner. You know, we have a stretch five to go with Duren. If you want to switch this and try to take away from a team that we're competing against.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5710.916

I think he is when there aren't any other good free agents out there. I mean, he's still only 29 years old. He just turned 29 two months ago. Um, even though it felt like, again, we said this at the top, it felt like he was available there for a long time, but he was available in that way where it's like, well, we don't wanna just give him away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5724.826

Like whatever you may think about his deficiencies, there's still a lot of really good stuff about it. And now here they are two games away from the NBA finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5746.151

I believe he was available for a while, but they weren't just going to give him away. But they weren't going to give him away, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5768.26

I got, you know what though? 20 plus years of doing this. We got a few minutes out of it anyway. So thanks in advance.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5840.392

I want it to end so bad. And I just thought after a certain age, honestly, with LeBron, to me at this point, there's only things he could add to his legacy. Playing this long, I don't think there should be any result, any stat line where you're allowed to then go, well, you know, I thought you were this, but this age 41 season, I've got to reassess things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5861.58

You know, and Steph is kind of getting close to that. Like if Steph loses in the first round, it's like, oh, this guy lost this many times in the first round or didn't get it. The resume is complete.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5873.61

That would be a good segment where it's like, once you're past this threshold, like we can't, it's like the over 38 rule, but it's legacy talk where we can't, we can't take anything away from you now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5895.271

Second team on NBA. Is that good enough? If you're doing game four breakdown and saying, hey, I thought LeBron wasn't showing the initiative that he showed in game three, that's totally fair. But if you're then using that as some like, hey, Jordan will never do that. Jordan will never fucking coast. It's like, dude, I don't want to do this. It makes me actually want to talk about Angel Reese more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5917.099

So that doesn't happen. Look. Angel Reese post-ups. I think we should have, I ran into Rich Paul recently and it was funny because I thought he was coming over to give me shit about something I said. And honestly, dude, he's so good. He's so good with people. I was like, Hey man. And he's like, what's up? And I was just like, are you getting on my case?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5941.979

Cause he's like, man, I don't care about any of that shit. He's like, I don't know what you're talking. And then he started talking to me about college football. He's like, I love college. Like the stuff, like you and Van, and how much you love college football. And I was like, God, I forgot. Because I hadn't talked to him in forever. And I was like, I forgot how good he is with people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5963.151

Yeah, right. But again, in a very genuine way, which I think is like our good friend Tim Walsh. He's like the Rich Paul of my friend group. Timmy Walsh. Right. Tim is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

5975.862

interested in you he's complimentary he's sincere and it always is actually very genuine it's not it's so anyway I don't know that I'll have Rich Paul on to defend himself against David Falk because I can't fucking take it anymore every time I see a first take clip that actually like legitimately addresses it they did it on Friday it was couldn't have been more news basketball news galore but guess what

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6004.301

it gets the same reason why, like when ESPN tagged the Caitlin Clark, like they lost, it was Brianna Stewart got that awful foul call. Look at me, your guy. And, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6016.51

there was there was like the headline was like despite caitlin clark's efforts yeah liberty did they lose the liberty i don't know and then it was like oh look what look what they're doing it's like no they're not they're not doing anything they're giving you what you want because somebody is going to click on that because it led with caitlin despite caitlin clark's effort not hey liberty win on controversial late free throws and it is the same thing as lebron is that

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

603.831

Well, that's another part of this exercise. You go through it and you're like, man, flag ends up in the West. You know, what if Harper's a stud? He ends up in the West women Yama just a couple of years ago. Right. You know, maybe honest. And then Atlanta's like, we'll take research, you know, who I actually do like and thought he showed a lot of promise as a rookie here, but yeah,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6045.826

until people start going i can't fucking take it anymore i'm not clicking on this i'm not watching the videos but i imagine the results are still there even though what is left there's not only there's no fucking bone left forget meat on the bone the bone has disintegrated the carbon dating on this thing and i've yet to meet anybody have you met anyone who's changed their mind and again i just did five minutes on it so

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6087.509

I'm now on Team MJ for the GOAT debate. I'm telling you right now, if you're a guy in the TV opinion world, and you already have to be being invited to being on shows. The college kid's listening right now. I'm like, I don't know if you're going to have the platform to do it. That would be the move. Instead of where Skip was just He was moving all of his belongings out of LeBron's storage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6108.654

Yeah, but like Skip was moving his stuff out of LeBron's storage unit and he was putting it in his aunt's storage unit because he thought he was like, you know, these old timey writers think these nicknames are actually fucking funny. Can't man. Can't man. And you're like, oh, that's Ruffles McHenry in the Globe in 1981.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6132.648

The move would be For an opinion guy that's like maybe not getting the, you know, it's like another fill-in shift. Like I'm not even a head count. The move would be. July 5th show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6147.364

Wait, so the jump is live on location. And then at second, you want me to be the backup third person in the LA live studios.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6159.345

And I'm only out of the first half hour. That happened to us on get up once. It was like, who is it? It's Cassidy, Rosillo and who? Right. And that person didn't show up. Yeah. Yeah. I think that'd be a win. I think that'd be a real lane. It's like, I'm open. I haven't decided. No, to go on record and say after the next, because it's going to come up again. Be like, I've been in the lab.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6184.15

I've been doing the research. I'm going to lay it out. I've changed my mind. Changed my mind, guys. I don't think he exists in TV right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

621.698

when you were thinking about the lottery going like, Hey, can the East at least get flag? Just try it. Like if he's going to be this special and you know, we've had this happen before where it felt like there was this massive migration, which really mirrors history bill, uh, where you just kept pushing things further and further out West.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6243.206

Yeah. I am so nervous for the trade machine now too, because stuff that works. It's like stat news. You just don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6287.152

Yeah, but I don't know. See, this is where...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6318.522

No, no, no. But this is the problem. Like whenever you and I are just bullshitting and talking about trades and like different stuff and then it's like, oh, that actually isn't allowed. And then you just want to yell. No, I did some. I did some. We're 13 in this guy. Just pick one. 13 to move some of the stuff around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6333.967

If Cleveland is over the tax, though, they're not going to have the full non-payer tax mid-level, which is 14, I think, this year. So now we're talking like 5 million. Look, if he's given up 50 million. You might be right. He's probably giving up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6351.982

I would say one of the things that was very consistent about the way LeBron has handled the finances here is that even if it wasn't that much of a haircut because it was a sign of trade in Miami, but there was always like this position of, hey, LeBron isn't the highest paid player in the league, isn't the highest paid player in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6368.916

He was pretty much right there. And then when they did this last deal, my guess is they're doing these deals the way they're doing them so that he has the flexibility to opt out and then tack on the next year with the next option. And the Lakers were just, I mean, I guess the Lakers could have played hard ball with them last year, but they didn't want to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

637.441

But, uh, look, I'm going to say something that's going to seem really stupid when they're up to, Oh, and they had just eliminated the calves, but I'd rather be the calves. Because their three guys are better than the Pacers' three guys. And I know it didn't happen in the playoffs. I could point to the injury stuff, but there were some games in there too where it's like, what's wrong with you guys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6447.139

What do you think? And again, I'm not the first person who thought of this. I'm not taking credit for it. What if Mitchell, what do you think Mitchell would say to his closest friend? Awesome. Cool.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6469.035

Yeah, I get what you're talking about here, but I don't really know that it makes that much sense for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6548.922

I don't trust video clips. I don't trust pictures.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6560.996

You give me a golf weekend with my buddies and on Monday I look like something's wrong with me. That's how I'm going to feel after this three-day weekend. Is something wrong with you? Did you go out last night? You were a little choppy to start the pod today. What do you mean choppy? Just tired.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

657.171

I think Orlando is in this conversation because I think Paolo is going to be better than anybody on the Pacers. I looked at them as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6587.345

That's what it is. What's going on? I think we need to address this. What's up with you with the pickleball thing? You hit that guy right in the head.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6606.641

You've never played pickleball indoors and assaulted somebody?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6616.186

There's footage of you Of me? Yeah, go in. Let's do this. We'll do this. Do it live. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6627.318

Yeah. You know what? I'll actually send it to you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6629.759

Because I've been tagged on it a million times, and it was unavoidable. So let's see here. This is people getting pissed at our mobile Giannis thing again. Oh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6646.022

Two weeks ago. Can you, can somebody, nobody's with you right now, right? All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6677.483

And another guy comes in. How about your backpedaling though? Like that guy looked like he was ready to, he was on the longest drive at some charity event after like a couple nooners.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6693.381

I'm glad we could clear that up. Yeah. Thanks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6738.76

So that's another thing. Apparently. For your argument.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6762.557

I feel like there are more problems that are unsolvable for Minnesota in that series than I do for New York Pacers. But I also say that knowing I thought Minnesota would be more competitive in one of those two games. I guess you could say they're competitive for quarters one, two, and four. And both of them, when you look at the halftime stuff, like, hey, they're sort of in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

6783.886

I just look at OKC as being that much better than everybody because of that defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

679.884

Yeah, but this feels like one of those exercises where day of... like any other answer seems like I just named the team they got rid of in five games. I mean, that seems on its surface, like I don't feel good about anyone in the East.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

721.846

Right, well, Suggs being healthy and honestly, like at some point you're going, should I give this guy an MVP vote? Because it's like, they're just not going to be able to play offense now anymore. And I think they got in some, look, I don't think they were the best offensive team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

737.779

This has been two years of this, but they, I think, got in some really bad habits offensively here with this whole thing. I'm more open to it than when you first suggested it. I think another thing in the Pacers' favor, if you were going to go ahead and pick them, and it just still feels like if you're picking the Pacers, you're kind of going like, all right, I guess I'll pick the Pacers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

756.424

It's a recency bias fix, but they did make conference finals two years in a row. That's not nothing. That's exactly it, is that this is now year two. This isn't Atlanta getting to the Eastern Conference finals. This isn't Dame and that Portland team, whereas Dallas, when they got there with Luka in 22, you were like, is this real?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

773.538

And then they're in the finals two years later, and here are the Pacers back-to-back years. just, you know, getting through the East in a way where you were like, I don't know that I've ever thought about you this way during the regular season. Like if they were really this good, you know, why were they not up there competing for, for 60 wins with some of these other teams?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

932.151

I don't know. I always feel like everybody just runs it back. Really?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

956.045

Yeah, but they weren't really giving up anything. They weren't giving up anything, though. They gave up a first-round pick in the Derek White deal. They gave up Brogdon and... Robert Williams in the Drew deal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

976.201

Yeah, I think fans in the media were like, I think the Marcus Smart stuff was pretty predictable, even though the fans in the media kind of was like, I can't believe they'd be getting rid of this guy. I was thinking Jared Allen for Cleveland would be the one that wouldn't shock me. that's fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Rare NBA Sea-Change Season, the Haliburton What-Ifs, and a 2020 Redraft With Ryen Russillo

994.605

But like Jared Allen still is a better player than any of the guys that we've named that Boston has shipped out here. And then if you start taking it to like the Garland level, that's a whole different thing. I mean, if you're getting drew holiday for the package, the Celtics are like, that's a no brainer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

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You know, I trust Joe House on hoops if he's actually watching as much as anyone in my life.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1022.232

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this has been the case since the late 80s. And I think he was more afraid of the bust potential with Sar than anybody. And he's been saying all year, like, he likes them. Doesn't, isn't positive what he is ultimately, but there's definitely, uh, some Ibaka stuff in there and he's not afraid to shoot and his stroke's pretty good. And you can kind of see what he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

104.447

We were doing goodwill hunting for everybody coming to that, uh, to that live show. We did goodwill hunting, I think in the first two years of the pod, but way more categories. Plus we got Rosilla this time, perfect movie to do in Boston. And then we're going to have a Coolidge corner, uh, Film Festival, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Check out theringer.com slash events.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1045.086

Like he was drafted as a stretch five. If they were lucky enough to get flag in the draft, you put him like SAR would be the ideal guy to put flag next to, I would say, um, with those two together. So it feels like they have something. All right. So you'd go SAR three, Buzellus four, and I would go Buzellus three, SAR four. It sounds like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1068.599

Well, I thought the guy we haven't mentioned yet is McCain, who got hurt and was looking like the most ready rookie and is only, I don't even know if he's 20 yet. But I think from what we saw from McCain before he got hurt, I might take him above Reed. Because I know Reed's not playing and I know it's not his fault.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1091.548

And I know it's probably not a great situation for him, but I also think it's weird that he's not playing. I thought it's not like Houston does need him. And they had a stretch where Van Vliet was out for a few weeks and he still wasn't really playing. And I, maybe he's just a guy that needs big minutes and isn't capable of coming off the bench and playing 15.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1109.199

But I promise you, they thought they were getting a little more from him this year than this with the shooting, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1168.871

Yeah. You're not playing defense nearly at the level I want to be at. So you're just not going to play. Sorry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1208.154

Yeah, I'm saying it more from I just loved what McCain was doing when he was playing. I see what he is. He's a combo guard. So you would take him fifth. You might be right, by the way. I don't know if either of us are necessarily even right, but I think I would take him right now over Reed. But I think it's close.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1227.472

And then after that, we move into this, you know, you got Bub Carrington, you got Jalen Wells, the kid on Memphis. Edie's still there. Ware's still around. Eve's Meecy. Yeah, Meecy on New Orleans. Ron Holland, the fight starter. And then Klingon. I think would be the kind of the next group. And then it becomes a question of what do you like? Quentin Post. Quentin Post. Shannon's out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

125.381

There's still some tickets left, I think, for some of the theater, for some of the movie stuff. Me and Sean and Chris are going to be there probably talking after a couple of the movies. So there you go. Coolidge Corner all weekend. I don't think there's going to be a live show with me and Rosillo on Sunday night in Boston. I think we're just going to do the pod regularly. We'll see, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1255.601

It's a weird, fun draft. But I think if we're looking at who has the best chance to be really good coming out of this draft, I think we hit the top six, right? Is there anybody else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1310.039

You could see it last night. He's great at alley-oops, kind of knows where to go and what to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1347.423

Yeah, he's definitely, I would say, you know, like he's after wear. There was a three-week stretch where it seemed idiotic that Miami didn't take connect and that they took wear over him. And now I think, you know, it's also not like Miami's playing well. The one that's, I think, the most polarizing with different people I've talked to is Klingon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1365.325

whether this is just kind of who he is, a guy who can block some shots, who's a little slow, doesn't really have any offense or whether this is somebody that could potentially be the anchor of a really good team. And I think the fact that he's getting actual minutes for them and they've been a good basketball team for, you know, two plus months here and really competitive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1384.781

And I, I think he's a piece and feel the same way about Edie. I don't know if they're ever, uh, you know, one of the four best guys on an awesome team? Probably not. But could they be in an eight-man rotation on a really good team? I think they could.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1425.14

Well, it's tough when you're playing with Denny and Denny all of a sudden turns into Larry Bird. In the last six weeks when he looks like he's doing an 85 bird impersonation. It's unbelievable how good he is. Even he's saying like, I've never played this well in my life. I don't know what's happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1482.425

Yeah. I just assume he's that point. Yeah. Right. If you see him, it's like a bonus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

150.819

You never know. Could there be a last second live show? Maybe. Anyway, we're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where they have these player performance doubles, two-leg parlays made for you specifically. Take an NBA player prop, like Luka's going to score 30, the Lakers are going to win. And they have a ringer player boost token. on these, placed on any of the games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1515.367

And so really it's a six and then it's kind of a, let's see, depends on who you like, but we should talk about Ron Holland for a split second, who was the fifth pick in the draft. Yeah. He is still 19 years old. He carries himself like he's 32. They throw him out there. He plays real minutes every game. Sometimes he's pretty good. Sometimes he'll make some shots. He's physical.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1544.608

He's a little early era, and I don't mean this in a melee standpoint, Ron Artest-ish. Actually, it reminds me of Ron Artest. Hopefully, he won't go charging into row three at some point in his career. But they took him pretty high, and I'm not against it. They took him fifth overall. We don't have him in our top six, but I wouldn't rule him out. Would you? We'll say he's 19.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1623.834

He's definitely going to be going into the other bench for the bench-clearing bra. He'll be the first guy behind him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1682.805

No, I would have said eight a game. Yeah, he was 31% from three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1691.177

I don't remember playing that. I didn't have league pass that year, so I can't say the 2000 Bulls were on my TV a lot that year. And he couldn't shoot either. Same size. He reminds me of him a little bit. Any Bub Carrington thoughts before we move on? Yeah, I like Bub a lot. Kaishan George?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1725.405

50-second pick. Collier. Had a couple moments on Utah. He was like averaging seven, eight assists a game for like a month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

173.148

And it's good if you hit them. And there's a lot of good games on Tuesday, including Dallas and the Knicks and Golden State Miami. So stay tuned. I'm going to tweet out my pick on Tuesday. Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. This Tuesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1751.345

It's just a pickup game that never ends with the Utah Jazz. Just 15 guys not knowing if they're getting run. Who knows? We'll see how long Will Hardy enjoys that. And Dillingham just doesn't play. Shannon Jr. had some fun moments when people were out, and then Talk to me about your Charlotte guy that you loved. Salon? It's kind of a mess. But you were expecting that? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1777.658

In retrospect, six might have been a whiff too high for him. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1794.151

You know when he's out there is not a compliment. Oh, I think it is. I think Buzella's falling to 11. is probably like looking back at the draft, who knows with all these dudes, they're all like babies basically. But that's the one that I think is going to seem weird down the road. McCain, whatever. We knew that McCain was falling too far as it was happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1819.676

But Bezelis, like a team like Charlotte, that would have been a really nice pick for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

188.077

So coming up, the original plan for this podcast was we're going to do two thirds of a podcast and then put the topper after OKC Clippers tonight. So what happened? We started taping at 1045 a.m. Pacific time and we just kept going for two hours and we just had a full podcast. So we're just going to put it up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1880.583

It's really like that team is like, if I move, I might get the ball. God, you love the Bulls. I did. I really did. I thought... Look, it was the perfect opponent for them. But I've liked that. I mean, what have they won? Like seven of the last nine? They've been on my radar for a couple of weeks here because I've been trying to figure out playing stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1896.514

And I've been scouting some teams, watching Miami just on the cruise ship to hell and just thinking like, could any, watching Atlanta a little bit, could anybody, you know, emerge and be a possible seventh seed in a team that's playing the Celtics? And I think if the Bulls got the seventh seed and played the Celtics, the Celtics would beat them. But that's not a fun series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1916.784

And those guys will be run and gun, go, go, go the whole time. You're nuts. I don't love it. You're nuts. I'm just saying it's not a fun series. I'm not saying the Celtics would lose. I just, I don't like playing teams with gimmicks that are really confident in their gimmick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1936.291

Yeah, I know. What are they? Like eight of their last 10, seven of their last nine, something like that. I mean, they traded Levine. And they're playing better now. Yeah. By the way, your guy, your guy who you sold your stock on a couple of years ago, Red Velvet, called the broker and like, just unload it. Just get rid of it. Did I? Yeah. Just get rid of it. I don't want it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1964.775

Maybe you're still in. I don't know. In my head, you sold it. I don't remember. I certainly haven't heard you talking about him that much. But Red Velvet, Red Velvet seemed a little back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1983.764

Six white guys started the game last night. Six of the 10. My wife just, cause I brought my wife and she's like, is this unusual? She was stunned.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

1996.792

I've been telling Van a lot. We're coming back. Flag, we're coming back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

20.449

And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Celtic City on HBO and Max, 9 p.m. Monday night. Larry Bird shows up. The early 80s begins and it's awesome. Please check it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2008.356

Thanks again to Workday for sponsoring that segment. I had a good time. Learn more at Workday.com. We're going to take a break and come back with more basketball. Hey, let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that FanDuel has right now. Player performance doubles. We do them on Tuesdays. Two-leg parlays already made for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2025.629

Let's say you think Luka is going to score 30 and the Lakers are going to win in a game. Well, now you can bet on that because FanDuel will take a player prop add it with that player's team to win. And then on top of it, Fando is giving all customers a profit boost token exclusively for those bets on Tuesday that you can use. Head to Fando.com slash BS and you get your profit boost.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2047.745

I'm also going to be tweeting my pick on Tuesday. My favorite player slash team prop win matchup, a player performance double. And you can make every moment more with FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Must be 21 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. Opt-in required. Bonus issue. Profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

206.769

So I hope nothing absolutely insane happens to OKC and the Clippers in that game tonight that we regret not talking about. But this is how. We landed. It's a very good podcast. It's all coming up next. First, our friends from ProJab. All right, we staggered this podcast, so this part of the pod we are taping at 11 a.m. PT. We want to do some 2020 sliding doors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2073.204

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA finals. One of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level, but all the historical legacy stuff. It's my favorite. You've heard me talk about it on the podcast many times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2098.38

Speaking of finals, Michelob Ultra has given me the chance Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2251.195

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2386.638

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

251.117

I also wanted to tell you about the Bulls-Lakers game I went to last night. Did you happen to see any minutes of that game? Yeah, I watched the entire second half. So the Bulls, first of all, are turning into a very belatedly fun end-of-the-season league pass team because they kind of know who they are, and they play really fast, and they have two good guards that attack, attack, attack.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2721.405

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

274.126

And you could tell pretty early this wasn't going to be the Lakers' night with the way how hard the Bulls were playing and how much they were attacking the rim. They're out setting threes. Yeah. It did make me wonder if there was a little bit of a blueprint in there to beat this Lakers team with go, go, go, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep attacking. They don't really have a rim protector.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2829.138

,,,,,, I guess if you took them one at a time, that kind of made sense. But the points they gave up, they gave up one-third to the Clippers, 123 to the Kings, and 123 to the Suns. And that is not good, Russillo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

292.635

They don't really want to run up and down. They want to slow things down. And I was trying to think of anyone else in the West That could basically replicate that. And it's obviously OKC. And it may be last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2959.618

And that's a guy that you would think the Cavs would be pretty well equipped to face. By the way, we should mention we're recording all this before they play Utah today and they might be able to get back on the horse. I was alarmed by a different thing in that Suns game that if you're just projecting, what does the streak mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2975.026

And then what does it mean going forward when they play Boston, whenever they play Boston? They couldn't stop Durant. They couldn't stop them. And as a Celtics fan, when I look at the Cavs and think of how the matchups could favor the Cavs, how the matchups could favor Boston, ultimately it comes down to Tatum. Can they slow down Tatum? Can they stop him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

2996.538

A big 6'9", point forward who has the ball, and that's why they traded for DeAndre Hunter. That's why they have to play a Coro, even though they probably don't love playing the minutes they have. But that's why Strews becomes an issue when it's a bigger team with wings like what Boston has. I watched that game. I'm like Durant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3014.807

That was the, I thought that was the best game I've seen him play all year. And he was really, really engaged. I think he took 29 shots. He was like 17 for 29. But if you're Boston, you watch that game and you're like, this is, this is the Tatum window in a series with these guys. Can they stop them? I don't know if they can.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

304.824

And I don't know if it's overreaction or not, but last night made me really think like I think I think they would be in a heap of trouble in an OKC series with the athletes and the speed. And I'm not positive they can match it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3093.018

No. Well, the other thing is you can kind of find your matchup, the matchup that you want against them. And you can do that against any team in the league. And they do, you know, if they have those two guards out there, you're going to try to hunt one of them. Certain teams like hunting Allen and bringing him out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3108.089

And I think one of the issues I have with the Cavs, and I don't even know if it's an issue because it'll probably solve itself, but I'm still not positive what their best five is. especially against different matchups and it might not matter, but I think they need Hunter to be that fifth guy. And he just hasn't been in a lot of big games. You know, and we talked about this last week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3128.513

He had that huge shot in the corner against Orlando and he had to sign the backboard with it. You know, if you're guarding Kevin Durant or Jason Tatum and Hunter has to be the guy, he doesn't have a shitload of reps. I really liked that trade for them, but, um, I guess the good thing for them is the schedule is about to get easier. Utah. Well at Portland's not easy anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3148.142

San Antonio home at Detroit. And then they're mostly home the rest of the way. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3227.36

Struis would be the other guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3275.003

This mattered. Really good teams, I don't think, lose four games in a row and they have real stakes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3282.869

I think it matters. Can I make the case?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3287.532

No, you can't. Well, here's the case. They have the one seed sewn up. No. They had a two-game lead on OKC for home court in the finals. And home court in the finals matters more than it ever has now because we went back to the 2-2, 1-1-1. So they had this in their grasp. And I also think one of the reasons I like them is they've been so consistent and so good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3311.146

And after a while, you go, look, man, the numbers are the numbers. This is the best three-point shooting team in the league. They're awesome defensively. They're able to hold their own against all these good players. And then they just get smoked defensively. in those last three, especially Orlando throwaway, that's a weird game. You know, you're on Sunday, it's early.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3329.435

You think you're going to extend the streak right before you go on the road. But the other ones, they had real trouble against Kawhi and DeRozan and Durant in back to back to back. That's a real thing that I think is going to ultimately, if you're the Celtics and even if you're the Knicks, you're looking at that and you're like, Hey, this is good for us. The Knicks? Come on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3350.588

If the Knicks beat the Celtics, I'm sorry. I didn't want to leave them out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3363.563

Do I think the Knicks are going to be in round three? No, I don't. I think Boston's going to beat them. I just didn't want to leave them out because we have New York listeners trying to cater.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3399.916

Yeah, I think that matters in that combo. They have done it yet because that was a really competitive, awesome series. So you can't say they've never been in a situation like that. Okay, so we agree. You at least have to point to that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3438.207

You know who doesn't need seasoning? Shea. I think we're good. I don't think there's a playoff scenario where he can't get every fucking shot he wants in a series. And Chet is the one you'd worry about in a series like this. But Chet got his ass kicked in that Dallas series. And if that didn't make him, he came back bigger, stronger. Hartenstein had a bunch of playoff stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3458.511

Like, really, the only one that worries me for real is Jalen Williams just because he's going to have the ball a lot. And what did he learn from that Dallas series? Because it's going to happen again. They're going to just send the two guys at Shea. They're going to make Jalen Williams have the ball all the time. Or Isaiah Joe or whoever it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

346.317

They kept him in near the end. We were driving home and they were like, they're keeping Giddey in in case he can get two more steals. I was like, whoa. Giddey was incredible. And by the way, let's take a victory lap. We were like the only two people in America who liked that trade for the Bulls last summer. So I'm victory lapping that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3477.062

How are those guys going to function when they're just like, hey, look, Shea's not beating us in this game. We'll play four on three against you guys. Go ahead, knock yourselves out. And who's going to step up? And that's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3520.152

Right. Cause now we're playing four on three. So good at the foul line in that four on three situation. It is like the all time. That signing was incredible. We got to take a break and then we're doing slide indoors. All right, gimmick we almost did last week, and then we got so caught up with other stuff we forgot to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3534.141

We're calling it 2020's sliding doors, the biggest what-ifs of the half-decade, because it is the half-decade now. Five years ago was COVID.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3548.348

Rocky start doing better. Um, and I asked you to write down the biggest, what ifs for you from this decade? I wrote down my own list. I'm sure we have a lot of the same stuff. Um, we are not doing this draft style. We're just doing like, we can just go back and forth. The biggest things we've seen. What's, what's the biggest sliding door? What if for you in this first five years of this decade?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3573.428

I have a bunch too. I'm ready. I'm ready for however you want to do this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3588.434

Oh, wow. That's a great one. Yeah. Was that in the mix?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3594.448

I mean, I'm just saying, but when that happened, I'm trying to remember when during that draft, were we wondering if, yeah, you're right. We were wondering if they would go two or three with that. Oh shit. I just blew your mind.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

364.325

And by the way, I have the people scouting tracks for the scoot victory lap near the end of the season. And improbable, I'd given up, but we both never sold our stock. And now I'm ready to run around the track and wave to our fans. I'm not ready for that one yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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On that pick, though, they traded for the pick because that was an OKC pick, right? And OKC got out of 16. traded it to Houston and got these two like super conditional first round picks that I don't even think have really turned in anything. So they definitely traded up for Shangoon. The question is, do you do that if you also have Mobley? I don't think so.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3711.297

That would have been an amazing combo. All right. So you're saying if they draft Mobley, no Jalen Green and no Shingun already.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3724.557

Yeah, I did all the legwork on this. And those firsts were kind of those conditional rollover, rollover, rollover. And I don't think it's one of the weird Presti moves where it's like, why don't you just take certain good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3761.934

Well, basketball reference will have that. It has that trade pocket at the bottom of the guy's pages and you read the trades and you're like, wait. Dude, it's my homepage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3816.344

The answer is definitely yes, because part of the reason they did that Mitchell trade was they were like, we feel like we've hit a home run with Evan Mobley. Now we're going to get it. We've sped up our timeline now. Let's fucking go for this because we think Mobley's that good. You're not doing that if you have Jalen Green. I don't think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3834.028

For what they gave up with marking in and five firsts and all the other shit and the Kessler. I mean, that trade was expansive. They did it because they love Mobley. I don't think it was that many firsts. It was three firsts and two swaps, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3848.37

Yeah. Right, right. Yeah, I don't think they do it. So now we've altered the destinies of Cleveland, Houston, and Utah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3881.078

All right, that's a really good one. Great start. Here's my number one. It's an injury one, which I don't usually love for what ifs, but Murray tearing his ACL when he did Like to me, the ultimate what if sliding door thing is the title shift, right? This is one where he tears his ACL and it's right after the COVID when they started it. It's after the bubble. They start the season late.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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389.37

It sounds like a victory left for both of us anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

3922.338

Murray tears his ACL on April 12th, 2021. Like a little bit before the playoffs. So he misses the 21 and the 22 playoffs. The Suns ends up making it in 2021 with a team that looking back is like, wow. Not only was that team pretty awesome, but that team came really close to winning the finals. But now I look at that team and it's like, would this team be like a five seed in the West?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3948.588

And then Golden State makes it in 2022 because Murray doesn't come back in time. And that's the one where if you're Denver, I mean, Denver ends up winning it in 23. I think Denver, if they have healthy Murray the whole time, I just would have them over that Golden State team. It's great. It is. Steph was because you had Clay at a weird point in his career.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3967.564

Draymond was at a weird point in his career. I just think Denver would have been better. But you think they would have won back-to-backs? No, I think they would have won 22, and then I don't know what happens in 23.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3983.215

I don't know. No, because Miami beat them in 23. They didn't even get to the finals. I don't know how it goes. no matter how you want to do it. But I just think they would have won the title sooner than that. It's the only injury we'll talk about. I know the net sliding doors will probably come up during this, but this is the only one where

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4002.972

I'm really confident that the 21 or 22 finals would have played out differently in some way. So I think this was the biggest injury. The honest sprained ankle in 2020, I think was a really underrated sprain injury when he got hurt in game four against Miami. And then Miami ends up going all the way through, through the bubble. I think you could argue that could have been Milwaukee that year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4024.95

And then Kyrie and Harden going down in 21, I think. I think those are the three biggest injuries where you could say the title probably swung because this happened or almost probably swung. So I would have that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4055.284

Whole time. Even during that Memphis series. And then the Celtics, when they lost the first game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4065.271

They were up 3-1. I don't know. It was like, wow, this is what we're... One of these teams is probably making the finals. It was a weird time for the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4146.869

I think if we were doing which best player in the playoffs do you trust the least, Ja would be the number one pick in that draft. I just don't. What am I getting from him? How many games is he going to play? Is he going to play seven games in a row? I just don't. I don't trust that because I haven't seen it. And I also don't think like. I don't think you're wrong on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4166.064

I think in a playoff series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4170.647

At least I know Harden would play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

4179.372

James Harden is a new man in year 19, year 17.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

4253.089

That's another one. So I think jazz in that thing too. That's a good draft. You should do that with somebody like you next week. All right. Um, talk about a few games. I'm going to do a second sliding doors. And then I'll throw it back to you because it's tied into the injury thing with Murray.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4273.396

I think they win in 22. Yeah. Because Jokic was that good by then. And their supporting cast was good. I think they would have been the best team. Which ties into the other one. It's kind of a 1A, 1B. The what if the 2021 Nets don't break down is a great one. Because they had that Celtics series where they looked like they might have a chance to be the greatest offensive team of all time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4296.281

And they're actually playing well together. And then I think Kyrie got hurt. Kyrie sprained his ankle. Harden hurt his hamstring. Tried to keep playing. There's so many... And then they end up losing because KD steps on the line. But... You know, Milwaukee barely beats them getting incredible injury luck and they still barely win. It takes them overtime game seven to beat them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4320.193

So then you got all the, if those guys don't get hurt, does Giannis ever make a finals? Do the Nets actually win the title? How do we talk about Kevin Durant now? Are those guys all still together? Do we talk about Harden? Like you just mentioned Harden five minutes ago. Well, what if they won the finals that year? How do we talk about him? How do we talk about Kyrie? Who gets traded?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4342.31

Does Kyrie even end up on Dallas? Does Harden end up on two more teams? Does KD end up on Phoenix? It's like that is one of those, when you talk about sliding doors, There's an alternate universe. And Zach Lowe always used to call them the greatest hypothetical team. There's an alternate universe where we talk about that team, like they're the 99 Rams. We're like, oh my God, remember that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4364.184

Those guys. And then they scored 130 a game and went 14 and 16 and two in the playoffs. Jesus Christ. But didn't happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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44.932

We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming up because it is still sports movie month. So we did Blue Chips. It was me and Bain Lathan and Chris Ryan. And the reason we did it was because we did it like in 2017. We didn't even have the categories yet. So we decided March Madness. Let's just go. Let's bring this baby back. So much fun to talk about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4405.296

I honestly Giannis cause I don't think there's a path for him. Otherwise I think that was their one best chance to win. And if he doesn't win there, he starts to move into that Barkley area. And it becomes the dominant theme with him for the last couple of years, even before the Dame trade. We're like, whoa, is Giannis ever, is he ever going to make the finals? How good can he be?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4428.201

We're just doing that for three years. And not like he'd give a shit. He's not even from America. He doesn't understand how stupid half the shit is that we obsess over. But I just think that I think he would have been the guy for this decade. I don't know. How good is he? Giannis and Jokic both took that off the table.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4445.75

Luca at least made the finals last year, but Luca, you know, if it doesn't happen for the Lakers for a couple of years, we'll be doing with him, but this is what we do. It's a, it's a, you, it's a, you guys, I don't feel like we're in the, you guys on this as much, but I know it is though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4527.37

I think for Giannis, it would be... Because you think Jokic has the chance to be one of the 10 best players of all time, whereas Giannis is in that 10 to 20 range probably.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4572.505

Plays his fucking ass off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

4585.348

Two bad luck injuries with him too in the playoffs, like at the wrong times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4609.602

Are people actually doing that? Cause I remember him just being this incredibly sympathetic figure, basically, you know, cause Glenn Taylor, he lost all those picks and the Joe Smith thing, Marbury left. And then it was just like, his supporting cast was so bad. At least the stuff I was writing back then was like, we got to rescue this guy from Minnesota almost became the narrative.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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461.224

Well, that's the thing. But I do think there's people in the NBA, and I've certainly considered the case, that if you're going to beat OKC, it would have to be with a pretty weird, different type of team that has a lot of... You know, guys who have been in big situations and then a big physical hard team to play with multiple scoring options would be the case for LA against OKC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4629.837

Giannis, I think has had more help than KG did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

4642.431

Right, they got one really good Cassell year and it felt like a miracle. It's like, oh my God, their point guard's averaging 17 and 8.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4700.422

No, I can tell you, Giannis is, we're talking about the Hakeem, Shaq, Moses kind of area. Right. And where do you think Jokic is? Jokic is on like the bird and magic suite, like knocking on the door now. Like I am the natural legacy to you guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4728.183

You know, I think I would have Steph's fourth ring over all of them. I think it vaulted him into a completely different area. No kidding.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4741.535

I do, because those guys still have a chance to win another one. And Steph didn't. And Steph, there always would have been a little asterisk next to him. And all it did was put him right with Kobe and West and right in that group. And he's probably leading the way in that group. I mean, you can never say, oh, the first one, LeBron, all his teammates got hurt in 15.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4762.965

And then the next two, you had Durant. That's why he won. There was always a yeah, but with him and the yeah, buts were gone. We talked about it when it happened. Giannis, MVP voting since 19, 1-1-4-3-3-4. And he's going to be three or four this year, probably four. Seven straight years in the top four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4789.704

I did not, but I liked your reasoning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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482.783

OKC hasn't been there. LA is not going to be afraid to be on the road. What I saw last night, you can really use the defaults of Luka and 40-year-old LeBron against them. And LeBron actually was trying harder than Luka and he was trying to chase down blocks. Luka, he can get carried away with the refs. I thought LeBron looked great last night physically. He looked fast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4822.134

I think I still, if I had to do MVP right now, I would still put Tatum three and Giannis four because I just think what Tatum has done this year has been incredible. being point forward, guarding five positions, being the best rebounder in the team and having more team success.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4838.98

I don't, I don't know what else you would want, you know, and Giannis is having the same 30, 12 and six that he has every year. And, you know, it's some of the same stuff with him down the stretch of games, the way teams play him. I, I think he's, I don't want to say hard to play with, but you kind of have to tailor the team to what he can and can't do. And he's really a center.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4862.608

And if you just think of him as a perimeter center, it probably makes more sense. But I just think Tatum's been slightly better this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4878.124

I was talking to a Knicks fan yesterday. Who do you not want to see in the three spot if it's between Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana? Who's the not, I don't want to see that team? And the case for Milwaukee is I just don't want to see Giannis for two weeks. How is that even a conversation? Well, because those are the three choices.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4896.997

Obviously, Detroit, you'd want to see the most because it's Cade and a bunch of guys that have been there. But Indiana is a team that plays really well against them, that pressures them. They have those guards that just pressure full time. They have a ton of confidence against them. They're deep. And Milwaukee is kind of a messed up team. Like they're not that good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4923.948

I wouldn't want to play the Pacers. Pacers are number one for me. I'd rather, I'd rather take my chances with this Bucks team and Kuzma and some of the bench dudes. And I, you know what, let's give Giannis is 30 and 12 every night. We're still beating these guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4957.145

Well, and they're also going to, they're going to really pressure Brunson who's coming off an injury. They're going to make him dribble for 90 feet. Every time it's going to foul him 30 times. We're going to hack them. We're going to talk shit. I would not want to see them. Let's take a, let's take a break and then we'll finish sliding doors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4972.575

All right, what do you have for your next sliding doors?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

523.194

No question. I thought he looked great. And was playing hard. But yeah, I think if you keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, they're going to start to bend a little bit because they don't want to play that way. And the other thing they did was they pressured Luka, which I don't understand why teams don't do this against the Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5274.315

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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538.847

I don't understand why they don't do it against Boston with Tatum. Anybody that has a non-point guard dribbling the ball up, I don't understand why it's not 80 feet of pressure. Giddy was in and around Luka all night. Luka was just getting more and more pissed. Finally got a technical. He must have shoved them three or four times. They were talking shit during the free throws.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5505.39

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. ,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

558.315

And that's another way to get at this Lakers team is you can really fuck with Luka. He takes everything personally. You can just be like, hey, like think about OKC, like, hey, Lou Dort, just fuck with Luka this whole series. Just stand around him, stand next to him in timeouts. Luka's like a big, can I have my personal space guy? And Giddy was just not having it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5781.668

His decade is fucking brutal. Like not doing the Brunson thing, selling the team to these schmucks that trade Luca within a year and then not getting nearly enough for the team. Not to mention all the behind the shit stuff, behind the scenes shit that was going on with that organization. Rough decade for our guy Cubes. And now he's trying to distance himself desperately from the Luca trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5805.891

And he'll do any interview and talk about how he can't believe. And oh my God, I had no idea. It's like you did sell the team to these dudes. This is your fault. Just like it was Howard Schultz's fault when he sold the Sonics to these fucking dudes from Oklahoma City who were clearly going to move them. Cubans sold the Mavericks to these guys and they obviously don't know what they're doing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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582.297

So I thought, look, they played out of their minds. And as you said, they were making crazy threes. The Bezelis thing is... is a real wrinkle. I don't think that's an overreaction thing. But anyway, I was just thinking like blueprint-wise, athletes-wise, OKC, that's the game they're going to watch. That's the game they're going to show their guys. Like, watch this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5826.863

And they traded Luka Doncic, which is the most insane thing that's happened in the NBA this century. Other than maybe the Artest melee.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5848.328

I honestly, I don't want to, I'm not that interested in somebody giving interviews about how they wouldn't have traded Luka Doncic if they still on the team. It's like, well, you sold the team. I want to stay on this. Why'd you sell the team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5882.188

It was $3.5 billion. It might even have been less.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

5893.117

It's a top eight or nine market in the league. And they had Luka Doncic, who's worth a billion dollars by himself for value. No question. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5929.318

Nobody who actually was in basketball circles believed that that's how it was going to be played out. And by the way, we're going through the same thing now with Wick and the new owner. Unless that's in writing, that he is going to be the governor for the next three years and that's part of the sale, I don't know if he's going to last two years, one year. We have no idea.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5946.902

But see, I want to stay on that because this is exactly where I wanted to go because...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

5998.521

No. He's been a terrific player. I think he's one of the most important NBA owners of the 21st century. He's in the top three. And he had a great first two decades. I'm just saying the stretch here, starting with Brunson to the end, it's really bad for him. It gets mentioned in the first paragraph of... everything about this. And he has to get blamed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6022.652

No, I'm saying what happened in the Mavs over the course to where they are now, where their fan base is in a full revolt with the team. I don't know. He's got to get some blame for that. He does. And don't sell the team to these people who obviously didn't know what they were doing. And then be like, oh, I never would have traded him. I thought you loved the Mavericks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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604.097

Watch what speed and athleticism and pace can potentially do if we meet this Lakers team. All right, I want to do a special gimmick here and it's going to be brought to you by Workday. Are you a forward thinker? Then you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do. Workday, the AI platform that helps propel your organization, your workforce, and your entire industry forward.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6043.546

I thought you loved their fans. I thought you loved Luka. That's crazy. That's crazy to say that after the fact. You have to take some blame. I should have vetted these guys better. I wish I hadn't sold the team. He didn't do any of it. He's just been like, oh, I never would have done it. Cool. Guess what? You don't have Luka Doncic anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6110.447

And he did that trade again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6159.774

No, here's what I believe. I think it's very possible, and I don't know for sure, that part of the conditions when they got to the final four were like, we're going to consider the bids or favor the bids that Wick is in there for three years as the governor in the transition. And if you can get to like six billion and you have that in there, you're going to have a better chance.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6181.49

And there might've been some of the other bids that were like, all right, our offer is five, eight, and we take over the team immediately. Um, I just don't know if that's in there or not. And I don't know if this is Cuban 2.0 or like, no, no, he's going to run the team. And then nine months from now, the new guys like, Hey, WIC. I took your courtside seats. So I moved you over.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6204.353

You're going to be in a suite from now on and all this stuff that happened to Cuban. We knew the Cuban thing was done. And I can't remember if we talked about it or not when he wasn't involved with the Western Conference trophy presentation and all that stuff. And then there was stuff that you were hearing during the finals about They wouldn't let him sit. They wouldn't give him the courtsides.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6222.006

He was scrambling to sit courtside and the team only gets two. There was just a lot of buzz that, oh, he didn't play this one correctly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6239.336

They want to own the team. That's why I have no idea where we're going with the Celtics. What was your last sliding door? Because we're almost done with this segment.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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626.064

into the future. I wish we could use it for the NBA draft in the best possible way, because that's what we're about to talk about. Workday, moving business forward forever. All right, so this is a no prep segment. I did not do prep for it either. I just thought of it last night watching Bozellas, who I really, really, really like. And I was just like, instant right now, blink test, redraft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6278.077

I'll just rip through really quick. The what if Dame goes to Miami is fun because it has a whole bunch of ramifications. Miami offered Hero, Lowry, and 28 and 31st. Phoenix, if this all happens, Phoenix, the DeAndre Ayton and Kamara for Nurkic and Allen, that trade doesn't happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6304.821

But I'm not positive Grayson Allen's in it because that was part of like you know, trying to get Dame and they had to move money off and put Grayson Allen somewhere. Who knows? The Bucks don't lose Drew to the Celtics. They get a 29 first and swaps in 28 and 30. Portland Portland ends up getting, they trade Drew to Boston for Brogdon Williams, a 24 Golden State first and a 29 Boston first.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6337.49

Basically, what I wrote down is every team is worse off except Portland and Boston. The Bucs are worse off with Dame and the fact that it didn't elevate them the way they thought. Even though Dame's been, I think, good this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6354.542

High test wise, he's looked really good. Stats are good. Heat are way worse off. Phoenix is worse off. So yeah, it's just a weird one. I think it helped the Celtics win the title as the biggest sliding door from that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6383.119

I think if you do that Dame trade, you then have to do the extension with Jimmy because you can't do all that and then not have a Jimmy relationship.

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6399.113

I don't think you can... You can't give up all that for Dame and be like, we're trying to win right now. Also, I didn't factor in whatever happened to Bam Adebayo in the last year. What happened? Why isn't he an impactful top 20 guy anymore? Does... If Dame's on that team, is he?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6429.216

So they're a mess right now. I know they're better. It makes Butler if he's happy and they took care of an extension and they might be a contender. So that's a good one. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6455.707

I don't know. I think they would have taken care of Butler in that scenario. So I feel like it's two guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6475.7

I think they might've thought it was, but you're right. It might've been a Sun situation where the league got way deeper and this recipe you had for a big three didn't make as much sense in 25 as it did now. I think it would've helped them more last year. Also might've helped them get some, some, some buyout dudes and who knows? I think that would add struggle, trouble against Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

648.519

Let's do a top eight. No prep whatsoever. Just top eight, gut feeling. My one would still be Castle. Would your one still be Castle, or is there anyone in this draft you like more than him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

65.546

You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify. You can watch it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well, where we also put up a reaction on the Happy Gilmore 2 trailer that I actually pitched them my idea for the sports movie sequel I want to see the most, and it involves basketball. So you can go check that out on our YouTube channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6500.637

A couple more quick ones. What if Fishby doesn't have new owner syndrome? Because he did that KD for Bridges, Cam, Crowder, four firsts and a swap. It also led to the second Beal trade, which saved... He basically saved Washington and saved Brooklyn with those two trades. So that's got to be thrown in there. What if the Udoka scandal never happens? Do the Celtics win in 23?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6527.677

What happens to the Rockets? Does any of this even matter? Did it all play out exactly the way it should have played out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6535.424

He might be third row Joe. What if Danny just doesn't blow up the Jazz in 22 coming off a 49-33 season? when they lost to Dallas because Luca was hurt half the series, but Brunson went nuts. And it seemed like, what is this? This team's broken. Jalen Brunson just lit them up, but nobody knew he was Jalen Brunson yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6554.791

And then they ended up making those two massive trades to Cleveland and to Minnesota and basically create these new, you know, real contenders. Yeah, totally. For two other teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6572.779

What if Golden State takes LaMelo and Franz in those two drafts? Again, stupid. No, it isn't stupid because I wrote it down. No, but I mean, it's like this is like in a draft, you can do this all the time. But it is. There is this alternate universe where they take LaMelo and they take Franz. Did they win the 22 title at that point? Maybe they don't. Are they better now? Maybe they are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6592.77

I don't know. It's just a step retire. Steps like I'm done. I'm out. Does LaMelo fit in their system? Do they trade him within a year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6618.838

I will say, Kamingo over Franz, which I think was argued... Really extensively in Golden State's side. And the whole case for Franz was he's an IQ guy. He's movement. He fits into what we do. That just would have been a better pick for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6678.776

I think they finally realized that the, that they, as long as Steph and Draymond were on the team, hoops IQ had to be the number one thing. Maybe they struggled with that for a couple of years. Two more quick ones. This is just a funny one. What are you saying about Wiseman and Kaminga? What if COVID never happened?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6696.291

And I went back and I looked at the standings and I remembered, and I actually listened to like 10 minutes of a pod we did that Sunday before COVID of the Lakers finally beat the Clippers. And we did a pod about what does this mean to the Lakers and say, like, but the Clippers had already beaten them twice. But the Lakers, when COVID happens, the Lakers are 49 and 14.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6717.598

They're number one in the West. The Clippers are 44 and 20. And the Nuggets are 43 and 22. And those are going to be our three teams, basically. Milwaukee was 53 and 12th. And Giannis was about to win his second MVP. And Milwaukee, I just forgot this. Milwaukee was like, that was the big obstacle. That was the one. And then it was like LA versus LA. And then here's Giannis over here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6743.081

And how is this going to play out? And COVID happens. They come back and Giannis gets hurt in the first round. And that's how Miami jumps in. The Clippers completely fall apart in the bubble. So COVID never happens. I don't know what happens that season, but it's probably Milwaukee or the two LA teams. I think the title comes from one of those three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6762.514

I think it would have been way better for the Clippers. Here's my last one. This is just for you because this is like the ultimate dumb sliding door thing. What if Philly doesn't bail on Al Horford after one year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6787.878

November 2020, coming out of the bubble season, heading to the next season, Darryl has just taken over. And Horford's got three years left on his deal. They trade him with Maldon, Micic, and a 25 first for Danny Green. That was the trade. They put OKC, they put, OKC puts Horford on ice for a year. They trade him to the Celtics for Kemba in the 16th pick. What happens to the 16th pick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

679.876

Interesting. Okay. Would it make the case for Risa Shea? Because he stumbled a little, and now it's coming back a lot, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6821.946

They pass on Shengun and Trey Murphy with the pick they get from Horford and trade it to Houston for two heavily protected Detroit-Washington picks. That was kind of a bad trade, but they just could have taken Shengun or Trey Murphy. Celtics make the 22 finals with Horford. They win the 24th title with Horford.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6841.456

And Philly is now tanking in 25 to keep this pick that they gave up because they decided Al Horford was a bad fit with Joel Embiid, who doesn't fucking play. Guess who you needed a backup center for? Joel Embiid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6863.11

What's crazy is that Al Horford had negative value. They're like, you got to take, if you take Al Horford, I need, I need, I, you also have to throw in a pick. You got to take this guy back. That's how bad it was. And now he's like one of the most beloved Celtic teammates probably ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6938.398

You know, it would have been a fun, I mentioned, forgot to mention one other, what if with this, if the, if the, the Horford shade doesn't exist for the Celtics, they're stuck with Kemba for one more year, but they take Trey Murphy with the 16th pick. who's kind of like the perfect interchangeable swing to come in. That's another one. But what ifs? Those are our favorite ones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

6963.074

Somehow we went for almost two hours, so we don't have to do the thing at the top of the podcast. I think we're good with the pod. March Madness. I'm sure you're enjoying it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7068.421

Do you think he should have done the press conference after and done the... Chris Ballin's not walking through that door, St. John's fans. Bill Winnington's not walking through that door. Walter Barrett's not walking through that door.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7094.427

Could have been my guy, Brady Dunlop.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7098.315

It's too bad. Yeah, they're missing. I'm sure he'll just recruit two shooters now. I think he should stay for a little while because I think it became a real thing in New York. I think he's smart enough to realize at the point of his career that he's been in where he's basically done everything and he's made a shitload of money. Why not try to be the king of New York for one more year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7126.337

I mean, nobody's ever resigned from as much money as he had at stake with the Celtics, where he's just like, I resign. You can have the money back. That never happens ever. It's like, let's negotiate a buyout for three weeks. He's like, I'm out. Here's my facts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7234.38

Yeah. He didn't need another team. He didn't need to add a second one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7244.985

Very possible. Uh, Rosillo back on your pod on Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah. We're doing, uh, I don't know what we're doing. All right. Well, I'll see you, uh, in Boston, Massachusetts this week, because we're doing. A live rewatchable show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7268.657

We're doing Good Will Hunting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7272.939

Thursday at night. It's sold out. It's at House of Blues. We're doing that. And then I'm making you come to at least a couple Coolidge Corner Theater. You got to come to it. You got to come see like Heat or Goodfellas or one of those movies, The Town. You got to go see one of them in a theater with us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7305.503

Right. We had a category in the rewatchables called blind call to Rosillo. And every time we called, you didn't answer because you never answer your phone. And then this time I did the call and Van goes, call back, call second time. Or Craig said that. Maybe he had his second time maybe to go through a call. You answered and you did about a minute on blue chips. It was great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7330.308

All right. I'll see you in Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7333.16

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Priscilla. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle. As always, don't forget about Prestige TV tonight. Doing a podcast episode on White Lotus, episode six. New rewatchables coming on Monday. We did Blue Chips, Celtic City on HBO and on Max, 9 p.m. Monday night. The first Bird episode, we're going into the 80s. As you can tell, I enjoyed it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7359.685

And then on this podcast, I'm definitely going to be having a podcast on Tuesday. Not sure about Thursday yet. So at least Tuesday, you're going to have me. I will see you on Tuesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

7394.028

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit

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A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

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call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

760.974

I had I had him in the blink test. No prep. He was number two to me. And I just like Castle a little more because I can see him as a top three guy on a contender down the road. Research a probably. The hoops IQ is there. I like that he's always moving. He's not like, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just going to stand over here. He moves. If they get a rebound, he'll take off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

785.086

He'll try to get... He'll think like, oh, maybe if I bust my ass on this, I'll get the ball and I'll be able to get a dunk. I don't think Trey... I think Trey's both fun to play with sometimes and then really not fun to play with other times. But he seems like he's getting better. So I would have him... I'd have him second. And I think that's a pretty good pick for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

806.001

Where this gets interesting is the third pick, because I think those are clearly one, two. I would have Castle first. You'd have Reese's shape first. But I think that's the one, too. But the third from what you've seen, who would you take? Whoa, I think this is where it gets hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

825.575

but I also saw SAR a week ago and I'm like, Jesus Christ, this guy's Serge Ibaka with three point range. Like this set, this looks great. But, uh, Look, I've watched Bozelis on TV a few times. I actually like watching the Bulls, full confession. I was excited to see him in person last night. And of course, just randomly saw the best game he could possibly have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

84.515

The Prestige TV podcast, we're still covering White Lotus, episode six. Sunday night on HBO, right after it ends, you can go there and you can listen to me and Mallory and Joanna breakdown episode six, which was fantastic. I am going to Boston in a couple of days because we're doing a live rewatchables at house of blue.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

849.323

I don't really know what he's missing from that position because he can shoot. I like his stroke. He goes to the basket. He's really athletic. And there's a little bit of a fuck you to him that I really saw for four quarters last night. He's not afraid. It's a little feisty. And I just could clearly see, I see what he is for the next 10 years. And I think they nailed that pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

874.113

So for me, it's either Saar or him for that third spot. And I'd probably lean toward Bezelis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

930.553

Right, if he was like the Wizards point guard instead of Jordan Poole.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

0.229

You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1050.502

Also, he might not be the number one pick next year because there's a couple dudes in next year's draft that everybody loves. You know you're the number one pick now. Yeah, so Cerruti says the lottery is May 15th. He'd have a month to look at it. We have not had a scenario where somebody tried to power play the top pick or one of the top picks in a while. Like Danny Ferry famously did it

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1071.118

When I was in college, because he didn't want to go to the Clippers, ended up shoving his way to the Cavs. Steve Francis basically did it. He got drafted, was unhappy about it, had one of the funniest NBA draft reactions probably ever, where he just seemed like he was being tortured, that he went to Vancouver, put the hat on, just kept looking up, and then finally pushed the trade to Houston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1093.044

It really hasn't happened since then. And I actually wonder why it doesn't happen more often, because... You know, we've been in this player empowerment era for 15 years now, but we haven't had a rookie come in and say, nah, I actually don't want to go to Charlotte. So you can either trade the pick to somebody I want to go to, or I'm just going to go back to Duke.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

111.811

Me and Russell, we're also going to talk about Duke and just a colossal collapse last night that we have to discuss. So that's all coming next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this at 10.30 Pacific time. We're going to do the made-up NBA awards for the 24-25 season in a second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1114.347

And I think he has real leverage now at the NIO to at least pretend he might want to do that. The problem for that theory is I don't think there's like a truly horrible team to go to this year. in the NBA, do you? Like even Charlotte, like is that a bad situation? Like they have a new front office, new owner. Everybody likes Charles Lee. They have some assets. Like that's not a disaster.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1134.182

Washington's not a disaster. I don't see a team where I'd be like, oh man, I feel so bad for him. He went there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1158.171

You're stumbling into it based on bad organizational stuff. Yeah. Don't say sorry. They, they played the season wrong and would somehow get compensated with that would be nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1173.397

Yeah, the Cleveland fans got mad at me. That was absurd. But I got your point. It's like, come on. Three times in five years, the same team's going to win the number one pick. What are we doing? Like, what are we doing? Philly, I think if you're talking about what would be the most interesting basketball situation for him, the Philly one would be, at least on paper, the most interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1196.485

I don't know if it would be the best for him because now he's on the Embiid. Are you playing or you're not playing clock? He's on the Paul George... whatever the hell's going on there, but at least he'd have good guards. But I think Washington would be the most fun for him from a, just as a basketball fan, just because of the weird pieces they have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1212.832

And I think he would fit in with the guys they have and, you know, be, be some sort of connector.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1342.52

Yeah, there's some tough advanced metrics with him, like the perimeter shots, like that 15 to 20 feet range. You saw it last night. He missed it. But the thing is, he's 18. He's a year younger than he probably should be. I'm just like, if you're just looking, go back and look at Tatum tape when he was at Duke or first year Celtics. He had a couple of things he could do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1360.091

And other than that, he was like a baby deer in the woods trying to figure everything out. And Flagg is... And what I see from an all-around game is closer to the Tatum now than that Tatum in 2018. But I don't really know if he has a comp. I don't think he's the same kind of natural scorer, but there's so many other awesome things he does. I can't wait to see him in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1383.98

And the bummer for him is just from a big picture standpoint, he had a chance to have this start to finish college season that just would have been mentioned with Davis in 2012, Carmelo and some of the great seasons. Now that's pulled away. I don't think this loss sticks to him though. It really felt like a team collapsed to me. Yeah, that shot, they'll replay it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1406.331

But big picture, here's a first take segment for you. is it better to lose or win a game like this if you're trying to become a great NBA player someday? Do you need like, Do you need the agony, the thing to go back to during the summer, the pain of that one loss and be like, I never want to have that feeling again? In some ways, you could argue that's actually probably better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1430.186

Bird always said like getting his ass kicked by magic in the final game was actually a really good thing for him. It gave him like a whole other level of drive. So I don't know. There's a dumb silver lining. Could have been too easy if they won right away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1451.439

If MJ had missed that shot, maybe he wins eight titles. Maybe he never plays baseball again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1522.142

When was the last time we had a college basketball loss like this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1535.151

Yeah. That's a good one. That was 2008, right? That was like 17 years ago. Just doesn't happen the same way. Wait, one more thing on the NCAA. Um, you talked about the Florida guy last week and how much you liked him. Yeah. And then you watch him last night and he just looks like he's doing a Jamal Murray impersonation. And I guess now he's crept into the, uh, into the first round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

155.926

Wanted to talk about the Final Four last night, specifically an unbelievable, unfathomable Duke collapse. One of the all-timers. Something that brought me back to where we were in college sports in the 80s, when shit like that seemed to happen way more often. Just watching. When did you start wondering... oh my God, are they going to blow this? Because for me, it was when they got the steal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1561.358

And I don't really know the knocks. He's not as tall as Murray is. And he's older. He's 22, which they always seem to penalize guys with. But, um, he's been impressive enough that I'm now rooting to see him go to a decent team in the draft, maybe a team where he could, uh, play. I'm talking about Clayton, but, uh, but I, I've, I've just been, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1583.47

really, really, really blown away by his shot making and how he seems to have a sense for when his team needs him to do something, right? If he's on Duke last night, Duke doesn't lose the game. So where do you see him? I know you only started doing the draft stuff, but where do you see him in that whole context? Does this even matter when these teams are looking at this in June?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1721.106

I would add the way he finishes after he bounces into somebody in a drive and still finishes with touch. That's the thing that reminds me of Murray the most. When Murray's really going, he has this ability to kind of bounce off dudes and finish anyway. I think he's really impressive. I was mad. I had a... I had the Auburn Duke parlay last night, which then I had to chase with Duke Clippers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1746.742

So it was a double loss for me last night. But I just thought Auburn was better. And then as you're watching him take over the second half, you're like, why the fuck did I bet against this guy? This guy thinks he's the best guy in this tournament. I'm not doing that again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1791.327

The most important question I'm going to ask you before we go to the break. Do you think stripping the inbounds passer should be worth more than one technical?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

180.116

It was the 77-76 was the first time I was like, oh my God, they might actually lose this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1802.93

You think it should be, I think it should be, it should be a two tech that it's just such a crazy thing to do. I just think it should be an extra, add an extra tech to it for how stupid, how stupid it is. And then that guy came back and made some big plays. He wasn't phased at all. All right. We got to get to the made up NBA awards. We're gonna take a break. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Welcome to a special part of the show, which is brought to you today by Audi with their all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron. So we're going to do made up NBA awards in a second, but just quick check-in because we got four games left. The biggest thing that's at stake right now is this defensive player of the year award, which Draymond has. There's like a good media campaign for him right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1842.696

Rob Mahoney and I talked about a little bit on Thursday and both of us thought Didn't, didn't really see it, but Draymond's the favorite basically based off this last 25 games. A large favorite shoe, right? Yeah. Basically based off this post Jimmy Butler trade stretch that seems to ignore the rest of the season. I'm not voting for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1862.986

I'm either voting for Moby or Dort because I just thought those guys were better. And I want to look at, I'm not going to decide today, but did you have Draymond all of a sudden as the defensive player of the year or are you leaning somewhere else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1896.063

There's some clutch defense with him, too. He'll make the single biggest play in the fourth quarter defensively, little stuff like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

1940.267

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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The Q6 e-tron, not just the new EV, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. All right, made up awards time. So we did this last year. I had a fantastic time. We're doing it again. Have a bunch of awards. I couldn't remember last year if I sent you all the nominees. I don't think I did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I think I just sent you the awards and left you on your own to come up with like a winner. But I have nominees for each category. So we're going to rip through them. And the first one, His Unicorn of the Year, which Wemba Nyama won last year. We created it for him. He got hurt. I don't think... Would you say he's eligible? I mean, he could basically win every year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I'd like to come up with a new name for this, right? Can we zag a little?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents, select states, game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit RG-HELP.com. Coming up, we're gonna do the made up NBA awards for 24, 25 with Ryan Rosillo next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I haven't seen that one yet. 500 pounds is a lot. A lot, especially with long arms. Really strong guy. Nominees I have, Wemby again, Ahmed Thompson, LeBron at age 40, Dyson Daniels, or Zach Eady for Unicorn of the Year. We could just vote for Wemby again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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You can put chat in there. Make the case.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I like the Chet one. If we can't give it to Wemby, I think Chet is a good backup choice because I've never really seen another player like him. So I think you're right. I wanted to give this to Ahmed Thompson, but I feel like he's been in the vicinity of other guys we watch. But I still feel like to have enough athletic ability that people go to see you play basketball,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And you seem like a better athlete than anyone at a basketball game with all the best athletes. Feels unicorny. So at least he's a medalist. So we'll give it to him. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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It's like a Michael Phelps in the Summer Olympics one year, just grabbing medals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Thank you very much. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, but you're taught in like seventh grade not to do that. Don't get trapped in the corner is the number one thing for the inbounds pass. The number two is just don't throw it up for grabs under your own basket. And they somehow did both.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . la in ,,,,,,, ,,,, ,,,,,,,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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He's been good last month. I've been impressed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Maybe the word's defunct. I looked at the research numbers. It was high volume.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, they had a drought that felt like a half hour with all the challenges and all the reviews and all the other things. First of all, there was a play in this game. I'll be interested to see if you've seen it because I can't remember ever seeing somebody try to strip the inbounds passer before and getting a technical. I feel like that might've made history for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Cam Thomas's stats are basically almost exactly the same as last year. So he's probably the winner, even though I feel, I felt way better watching him this year than it did last year. But yeah, we don't really have the, that's why even like LaMelo, I was like, eh, I don't know. Maybe we leave this to funk this year. What's, we got some media awards coming up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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So let's take a break before we get to this. All right. This is one of the big categories. This is like in the Oscars when all of a sudden they're doing like, you know, best supporting actor. Like, whoa, we're doing this now. It's the Perk Thinks Jokic Pads His Stats Award for Worst Sports Media Take of the Year about basketball. I'm sure you have a couple nominees written down, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I wrote down four. Perk saying Steph shouldn't be an all-star. All of Colin Coward's Tatum takes, like all of them for five straight months, which I went on his show two weeks ago and made fun of him for. Marcus Morris has been debuting some Jokic stuff lately that I really want to talk about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And then Gilbert Arena saying Bronny would be top five for rookie of the year if he played 36 minutes a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Any other ones that jumped out for you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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It probably happened at some point in my life, but I don't remember. But that happens. And I thought, oh, that's gotta be two techs in the ball. It was only one tech. So they go up six, but they have the ball. And then from that moment on, the game just completely fell apart for them. And they had, there was bad defensive stuff. Like flag got beat for a layup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Was there anybody that Jokic shoved from behind really hard and knocked him out for 20 games?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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So you think that was in the meeting? He test drove it, and they're like, that's great. You should say that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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All right. Next category is the most shameless LeBron related media moment of the year. And unfortunately, there were too many this year with people in the media. And we're just going to skip this award, including a couple last week that I was just stupefied by. Let's move on. The Virginia Beach Kings Award for most contrived story on a slow news day. I'll give you the nominees.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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This is, I think, another action-packed great category. Stephen A. versus LeBron for 10 days. The story that Minnesota at the deadline came really close to getting Kevin Durant, even though they're on the 13th apron and it's like physically impossible for them to make any sort of trade that would have allowed it. I enjoyed that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Anything, any story that involves an ex-player in a podcast taking a shot at a current player, throwing that in there. Any story that made it seem like Joel Embiid was now ramping up to play, throwing there. And then my favorite, Paul George has paused his podcast to concentrate on the 76ers season. I thought I had no notes. I thought that was a tour de force. Some blame me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Oh, some blame you for that? What else do you have for most contrived story on a slow Tuesday?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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You were going to do a Kamara open?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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They gave up that three when they were up six. When all they did was basically just you know, a little, uh, a lazy high screen and both guys jumped on the one guy and all of a sudden somebody else was wide open. They gave up the, uh, inbounds pass steal, uh, wide open three guy comes flying in from the weak side and dunks it. And then, you know, the guards on Duke were terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I think my favorite contrived story is the Durant trade, though. That was my favorite. I can't believe Minnesota was floating that out like there was ever a chance in a million years they had a chance to get Kevin Durant when all the rules make it literally impossible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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They said, what would it take to get Giannis? And we were like, what are you talking about? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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The McKeskey Award for Best American White Guy. Previous winners included Chet Holmgren, Tyler Hero, Kevin Love, and Mike Miller. So this is a prestigious one. Mike Miller actually was close to having the white belt here. He had it. He won it. Somewhere in the mid-2000s, he grabbed it. I'm not saying it's wrong. Sometimes it's a weak field. This year, it's a strong field.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Chet Holmgren, Tyler Hero, Austin Reeves. We'll throw Pritchard in there just to have four candidates. But this is probably the best category we've had. Now, Holmgren's missed a punch of time, so I'm going to penalize him and make it between Hero and Reeves. And I got to say, I think it's Reeves. It's Holmgren if we don't care that he missed the games because he's the best out of those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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But I think if you're going by this season, it's Reeves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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You're right. Chet's the best out of those guys. We don't have the all NBA rules where it's 55 games or more. We're just going best white guy. He's the best white guy. Dennis Rodman Award for best ongoing distraction. Nominees. Embiid. What's going on with his knee? Is he going to play today? Uh-oh, setback. Oh, he's ramping up. Ah, setback. Oh, he's ramping up. Zion. Is he playing? Oh, he's hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And I really think like, if you go on big picture, um, the fact that you're trying to win a title, but you don't really have that one, I got a guy's guard. It really seems like that blows up in games like that. You're playing a big football stadium. There's a crazy pressure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Whoa, he had 38 points and 17 rebounds last night. Where is he? He's not there anymore. John Morant. Jimmy Butler in Miami. Not the Jimmy Butler going on stage. Jimmy Butler in Miami. And then last one, here's where I'm going to put our guy Mark Cuban for his It's Not My Fault media tour. After probably two weeks of getting hammered by everyone in Dallas, why did you trade Luka Doncic?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Since him explaining that they didn't, he finally felt the need to give multiple interviews, rubbing salt into the open wound of the Luka trade. So who do you have for this best ongoing distraction? Biggest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Yep. I think you're right. Plus, watching how great of a teammate and contributor and the way the Golden State guys are talking about him, how amazing he is. He can score nine points, have five rebounds, and still impact a game in these 19 ways. Steph loves him. Draymond loves him. Kerr loves him. I think it's the right answer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I think he's played a lot of minutes the last 25 games in a way that hasn't really happened in a while. And I've noticed a little bit of the same thing, that it seems like he's a little bit dead legs-y. But, you know, they're in the grind now. They're trying to get trying to get a top three, top four seed. I don't think they have any choice. I was surprised he played on Friday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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But I think these guys, you know, at this point, it's such a dramatic difference to be three or four versus falling down. Eight is the scary one. Nobody wants to be eight. People will play these guys and back to backs, whatever. Nobody wants to be it. So that's it. Oh, the Jim Coughlin Award. For you thinking better than me. Last year, this was won by the LeBron JJ pod.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I guess we could give it to the Nash LeBron pod this year to mind the game. I don't know if you had any other candidates.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And then your sphincters start to get a little tight and you kind of need that one guy who's like, I got it, I got it, I got this. And they didn't have anybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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That's a good note. Oh, this is a great one. The Andre Blatch Award for most immediately regrettable extension. And somehow we had six nominees, including Joel Embiid. I'm throwing Laurie Markkinen in. Jamal Murray, throwing him in. Brandon Ingram happened during the season. Patrick Williams and Scotty Barnes. The answer is obviously Joel Embiid, but it's just fun that we had six nominees.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And Markkinen, I shoehorned a couple in there that probably weren't that regrettable, but it is Joel Embiid is our answer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up another Rewatchables on Friday night. We did The Saint, me and Kyle Brandt, because Val Kilmer died last week. And normally we put Rewatchables up on Mondays, but we decided, screw it, we put it up three days early. So you can find it as a video podcast on Spotify. You can find it on The Ringer Movies.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Would you consider changing the name next year from Andre Blatch to Joel Embiid Award if Embiid doesn't come back next year? Or did Andre, having an extension that got in the steed and making NBA history that way, should that just cement the award for him forever?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Early internet too. Early social media internet, which made it more fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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The 2025 Ewing Theory Award for star most likely to be Ewing Theory next season. I have Ja Morant, Zion, and Booker as my three candidates.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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It's like some of the Draymond stuff. He gets he gets punished for a different level of scrutiny because of the past behavior. Welcome to life. The Lou Brown Award out of nowhere team that surprised us the most, Detroit, Portland, and Houston, I think are the three. And I would have to say as great as the Portland, Houston out of nowhere seasons were, it has to be Detroit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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That team was all-time rock bottom last year and turned into a really fun league pass team. They're going to be a six seed, probably playing the Knicks in round one. There's going to be at least one awesome near fight in that thing. Cade turned into a real guy. And for me, it's Detroit. Who is it for you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Let's, uh, we'll take one more break and then we have some good awards left. All right. One of our big categories, the ML car trying to trade for a retired Michael Jordan award for goofiest, but possibly real off season subplot. I have five. What ifs for you? This is for the summer. What if the Lakers shop Luca? What if Katie opted out and signed for a vet minimum to chase a title?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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What if LaMelo Zion and job were in the same three team trade? What if Paul George demanded a trade? And what if Phoenix said, fuck this and just stretch Bradley Beal? Those are my five nominees for goofiest but possibly real offseason subplot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Send the checks every two weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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There's only one way to do it at this point. And it's happened a couple of times in the history of the NBA. I remember Reggie Theus was a good one. I can't remember if he was on the Bulls or the Kings, but he just got benched and they just didn't play him. And they basically tried to break him. The cap situation was way different back then than it is now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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But that's Phoenix's last resort is to just not play him anymore. And, you know, be like, all right, we'll keep paying you, but you're just not going to play basketball. So I think it might be a game of chicken. He might be OK with it, though. That's the problem. Whatever I watched in that Boston game, I was really startled by. I hadn't seen anything remotely approached that in a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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In the social media era, it doesn't really happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Um... So Phoenix stretching Bradley Beal, which nobody's been stretched with two years and a hundred million left on their deal. But as a way to get under the second apron and just basically take the hit for the next five years, it's not inconceivable. Um, the Zaza Picouli award for the one rule that absolutely needs to be changed. What did you have for this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I like it. I have two runner up and then my number one. I'll make the annual plea. Please don't let coaches challenge block charges anymore. Let's just say the call is the call and we just move on. I never want to watch another replay of a review of a block charge. I don't think guys should be able to have to eat the field goal attempt on a half court shot. I just get rid of that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Make it a team shot the same way they have like team rebounds. Um, because then I think it would inspire more people to try to take half quarter, three court shots. And we might have a couple.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I also think we should have 20 second instant replay challenges where within 20 seconds, it's like you think no, and we just flip it and keep the game going versus like the five minutes. But here's my big one. And you know what? I almost had this last year and I think it's gotten worse this year and I really hate it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And I don't know where, where the end game is, but the rolling the ball and the inbounds pass is, So the clock starts, but the shot clock doesn't start. And this whole game of like, the ball's just going to roll and we're going to kill time. And then somebody's like, all right, fine. I'm going to run. First of all, somebody's going to get injured on this at some point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Somebody's going to dive into somebody else's legs and somebody's going to lose their knee. I just think it's so fucking stupid. You roll the ball and the shot clock should start and the game clock should start. I don't know why they do it this way. And I would change this. So that's my passion for this year, Priscilla.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Well, 20-second quickie reviews. I left this award open for you, the Ben Simmons Award for Best Ben Simmons Moment. I figured you'd have something and you could just go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Well, so you went positive Ben Simmons moments.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I was going to go for the, uh, the preseason media day for the nets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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The 2010 Baron Davis Award for single best mail-in. This is, I think, the toughest category we've had so far because you could make a small case for Paul George on the Sixers most years, but not this year. Jimmy Butler on Miami and Bradley Beal just the whole season. And it is like bird magic in the mid 80s. We could argue about this for days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I personally think it's Butler on Miami because he was willfully trying to force their hand to get traded and doing all kinds of things. But I also can't shake Beal and I don't want to have co-winners. So I'm going to let you pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Because at least Butler, something... really seemingly catastrophic happened with him and Pat Riley. And there was some sort of breach, whoever was right, whoever was wrong, that made it impossible for Butler to play even at a decent level for them anymore. He was just broken in Miami.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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We got to rip through a couple awards here. The Shane Battier Award for Sloan Conference Statner Darling DuJour. This just happened, that big article on Jokic's defense and him kicking passes and how he's had the most kick passes ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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in this decade and more kick passes this whole thing about Jokic like the actually his defense by the way I've always felt this way I think when you take like the best players I still feel like I felt this way about Steph I felt this way about Bird and Magic once upon a time even though Magic would get torched by small guards but those guys were always they're always in steals they were always like could read what the other team was doing they're always good coming out of timeouts on defense

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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But I like this whole Jokic thing. And then the other candidate for this is Jokic's on-off stuff is just the most incredible it's ever been. I mean, when he plays, they have like a 125.4 rating or something like that, which would be the best ever. And when he doesn't play, they're 30th in the league on offense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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So they're either best all time or worst in the league, depending on whether he plays or not. There's so many good advanced stats that I swear, I think there's going to be some late Jokic momentum for MVP next week, even though it seems like Shea has it locked up. I think the stats are so crazy. And I don't want to spoil next week's pod. The stats are so crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And the season has been so unbelievable. Fandle has Shea at like minus a thousand or something like that. I don't know if it's over yet. That's all I'm going to say.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Nobody's leaning anywhere. The David Kahn award for worst GM performance. So my big question is, is this now become the Nico Harrison award? Did he do enough to supplant David Kahn? Who took Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio over Steph Curry among 17 other terrible things he did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Well, nominees, Nico Harrison, Sacramento firing Mike Brown and then panic trading De'Aaron Fox, New Orleans throwing Dyson Daniels into the Murray trade, Miami's entire handling of the Jimmy Butler deal, or Denver being 5 million under the second apron and not having a bench. Those would be my David Conner word, worst front office nominees, but the answer is Nico Harrison.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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since god knows when no not top 20 but pretty good yeah not top 20 but close yeah i mean i just i just want to shout them out you have this amazing asset you have to spend when you have an asset like that and they're not doing it and they own other teams it's not good of the money it's very strange to me you know what though is this might be the i drafted these guys i brought in pickett i brought in

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Watson you know I brought in Swather you know just trust me I know what I'm doing well I don't think you do because I think a lot of people would want to play Denver in the playoffs the way this is shaking out Denver and Memphis are the two teams I think people are fine playing as great as Jokic is it'll be funny if they get bounced out the

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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Let's see. Can we have him? He's outside the building. I would say them and Memphis are the two best candidates for the 4-0 sweep in round one. If we were going to have a shocking... I can't believe that team got swept. I would have Denver or Memphis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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The Vitaly Potapenko Award for Worst Deadline Trade, named after the time Rick Pitino during a strike season gave up an unprotected first-round pick for Vitaly Potapenko that turned out they could have either taken Sean Marion or Andre Miller, and they didn't get either because they got a backup center.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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So I don't love Miami dumping Dennis Schroeder for no reason when they got him in that deal when they clearly kind of want to be a playoff team, I guess. But at the Mark Williams trade, When you have Luka and you have this chance in the West for the Lakers to do that trade and then to back out of it and then just kind of get nothing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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And now it's unquestionably going to haunt them in the playoffs that they don't have a center. I have to nominate that. Deadline is the trade is the Mark Williams cancellation trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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I mean, we saw one Friday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

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The double big lineup. They had some issues. They kind of got pounded on the boards in a way that I was like, oh, okay. We'll fly in the ointment. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

523.924

Houston relentless made a couple of big shots, made a couple of big defensive plays like blocking can nipple when they were down six on that layup was, you know, Duke had the opposite play on the other end and they fouled the guy. Um, I was thinking about the big picture thing for me, obviously flag. Nobody's going to remember this game in five years. Nobody's going to hold it against him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

5359.94

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

545.41

No, I mean, for like, for the flag NBA arc, when he's like playing on Charlotte or whatever, age 24, he's in the playoffs. Nobody's going to be like, Hey, remember that time in the semifinals?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

5597.765

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

57.583

youtube channel as well uh i'm taping this right now it is late sunday morning pacific time tonight on the prestige tv podcast me and mally rubin and joanna robinson are going to be reacting to the white lotus season finale we're doing it live

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

581.091

Then he sucked in the last two minutes. Did he suck? Well, he gave up a couple big defensive plays, gave up a big rebound. He had the foul that over the back, which was, I thought, one of the worst foul calls in a while. But what I was going to say was... I pushed back on that he sucked. Well, he sucked in the last two minutes. He did. Sucked in the last two minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

5969.398

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

602.626

They gave up like an absolute slaughter of a run and he was a big part of it. Defensively, he was in multiple plays where his guy either beat him in the basket or he gave up a wide open three on that switch. That was his fault. When it's 7-7-7-1, 100% his fault on that. Gave up the weak side rebound.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6046.899

Oh, on the Torture Clippers? Yeah. Well, if you go to the last 25 games, which is a huge sample size, they're fifth in net rating. And when Kawhi plays and looks like the way he's looked really for a few weeks now, I just wouldn't want to see that team. And honestly, I wouldn't want to see Minnesota either if I'm OKC. We both think they're going to make the finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6072.9

But it just sucks that those are two possible 1-8 matchups. Like you play, you're going to win 68, 69 games. And that's your prize. We only have a couple of words left. We can rip through this. The white chocolate was a problem award. For 2025 guy whose season was much better in 40-second Twitter highlights, I'll give you Ja, Zion, LaMelo, Jordan Poole, or Russell Westbrook. Who do you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6107.292

It feels like that game, I mean, that's another team that might fall to 7-8. That game was a catastrophic loss. Like to waste that level of where Jokic got to that game and to have it 19 times and then blow it. And they haven't won since. Look, he's fine as your ninth guy. And as your guy, we're resting all the starters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6131.087

Russ, can you just go out there and do everything and put up a 32, 10, 10, let us hang around. But I just don't know how you play him in crunch time in some of these games. It's too much of a wild card. It's too risky, right? The risk exceeds the reward. Can't do it. You've Jokic and Murray and Gordon and Porter and Braun. That's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6153.397

Russ should never play in crunch time for them in a playoff game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

619.727

I'm just saying, he's not sending that two minutes to the Hall of Fame committee and be like, here's my case. It was bad. The whole team was bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6248.995

How many minutes do you think he's played this year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6256.118

Total minutes. How many do you think he played?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6267.833

2,002 minutes heading into tonight's game. He's played 2,000 minutes. That's crazy. They paid nothing for him. So for that, it's a win. The loss is when he's actually involved in the plot, when they're desperately trying to not fall into that... Six, seven, eight range. And they had a pretty good foothold for the three spot. And now it's looking pretty grim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

632.052

I thought he was the best guy on that team by far. But what I was going to say is that last shot, it's so funny how that fork in the road moment of like, he gets the shot he wants. I thought it was going to go in. and he front rimmed it. But if it goes in, now it's like this completely different conversation, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6331.611

Oh, he would have been killed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6342.5

Especially top five guy in the week. All right. Three words left. The Travolta and Pulp Fiction comeback of the year. Jimmy Butler, the Lakers as a franchise, or Scoot Henderson? Who do you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6355.546

Okay, me too. Well, this is it. The second most prestigious award we have. It's the 2025 Shamit Face Award. This is your award. I know you put a lot of time and thought and effort into this, so who do you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6449.285

Last award, the 2024 League Pass MVP Award. Most reliably entertaining guy day after day for six months. My winner is Nikola Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6470.652

as an alternative independent spirit awards kind of winner?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6506.501

You know, it's funny you mention this because... It's not a rational confidence because he's rational and confident. But I do think if it's 1-8 and it's OKC Minnesota... I think out of anybody in the league, he's the one who would go into that series going, I don't care what the record is. I'm better than everybody in that team. And like really genuinely, truly believe it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

652.481

They survived the scare and he has like his Larry Bird Carmelo moment and oh my God, and he finishes with 29 points and he's headed for the thing. And instead you're looking back like, ah, that was really rough. I thought he got tight. I thought the whole team got super tight. Proctor looked like He didn't want to dribble anymore by the end of the game. But that's the thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6538.558

I don't know. He's 23. Yeah. It's, That's a good one. But Jokic, this Jokic season, and it doesn't look like he's going to win the MVP, but holy shit, man. There's been 10 games from him this year that you're just like, I just can't believe somebody's doing this. Like when you go look at the Wiltshire stats on basketball reference, like, oh my God, it wasn't just a 50-point-a-game year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6566.535

There was this other season he had 44-a-game. Like, what was that like to watch that? Not that Jokic is putting up points like that, but just the day-to-day, like it honestly feels like any box score is conceivable. He's had box scores where like there's no way anyone in basketball could ever have this. And he's had five of those this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6584.862

But then when you watch how he's just how he does everything for them, like he's their only real rebounder. He runs the offense. He scores all their stuff in crunch time. He sets up everybody else, like everything he does. It's just I've never seen anything like it day to day. We didn't have league pass in the 80s for, you know, the great players of that era.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6604.618

And we only got to watch Jordan when he was on, you know, TNT. We didn't get to watch this night after night. This is fucking crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6622.232

I'm keeping an open mind for the last week of the season. It's really tough for me not to vote for somebody who's going to win 68 games and have one of the great guard seasons in the history of the position offensively. Especially when I try to value the winning piece. If he's going to win 20 more games than Denver. But the more I stare at this, that 60-10 game broke my brain.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6646.513

That was unbelievable. I've never, have you ever seen somebody just get the ball 25 feet from the basket and the other team knew what he was going to do and he would still back around and just get like a three foot sky hook? Like what the fuck? I know they were missing some guys in Minnesota, but I just thought that game was just nuts. Wasn't just the points.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6664.766

It was how he was getting the points and how easily he was doing everything. It was nuts to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

672.273

These guys are flags 18. These guys are all kids. That's what always makes me nervous when I watch college sports. I feel so bad that these guys are so young at the stage they're at, you know, which is the kind of spotlight and tension and pressure. I don't think I think you're wrong, though. I don't think it's going to hang on flag in the same way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6766.904

Um, all right. Those are our made up NBA words for 2025. Congrats to all the winners and the nominees. Yeah. Next time I see you will be Sunday night. We will know the playoff matchups. We will do some all NBA stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6780.597

We might have to go, uh, might even have to go two parts, but I can't remember that like looking at the West standings and some games are happening right now as we talk, but this West standings, the volatility of these last, uh, seven days is going to be bonkers to watch. Anyway, good to see you, Russillo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6815.889

I don't know if Joe's watching it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6837.538

That'd be amazing if they went back to the well. A double jerk. All right, I'll see you in a week. See you then. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle Gahow as well. Thanks to Saruti. And don't forget White Lotus tonight on the Prestige TV podcast. And you can watch it live on the Ringer Dash TV right after that show ends.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6858.846

And don't forget, we put up a rewatchable. It's the same. It's up. We put it up three days early. So that's what we got going. I'm going to be back on this podcast on Tuesday and I'll see you then.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6887.392

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

6908.657

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

691.282

I thought he was really good for for almost the entirety of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

709.705

Well, if we're doing the scale, the C-Web timeout game was clearly like, we'll be remembering this. Right. When he called the when he called the timeout that they didn't have at the end of that thing, that was like, oh, shit, this one's going to fall. I also think college basketball meant more when that happened. But in this case, I don't know. I just thought I thought his team really stunk.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

73.243

on the ringer dash tv youtube channel right around 7 30 pt 10 30 et right after that episode ends we'll be going live and then you can listen and watch as a video podcast on spotify or get it on the ringer dash TV YouTube channel. So that's everything we got going. Don't forget about one shining podcast as well. They had a live reaction to the final four last night, which we're still in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

730.658

And I watched Duke a bunch of times this year. That was that stretch in the second half I thought was by far the worst I've seen them. It's kind of inexplicable that they couldn't score for that long. I didn't really understand anything they were doing either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

758.649

What did he do good in the last two minutes? Because I watched it a couple of times today and I was like, ah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

765.771

There was a YouTube clip and I watched the last two minutes a couple of times because I was so fascinated by it. When you have these things that fall apart, It's almost like game six, 86, where you're like, you're watching each pitch. You're like, oh, that could end the game. Ah, that could end the game. And that Duke thing was the same thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

782.827

There was 10 plays in 90 seconds where you're like, ah, if they get that one, they win. Get the rebound, they win. You know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

863.425

It was the way Houston was pressing on those inbounds passes and how physical they were. You could have called a bunch of stuff that way either. And they weren't. And then flags getting boxed out going backwards. Um, and I thought the guy took his right arm and kind of hooked flag from behind a little bit from at least one of the angles. Either way, it's just not a foul.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

882.847

Now Houston got the ball anyway, but the issue for me is like, make them have to make a shot to win the game. Don't bail them out with some chintzy call that the guy was like, it seemed like he was just dying to call. He was calling it as they were still like, as flag was tipping the ball. I just didn't, I didn't get it. At that time in the game, I thought it was pretty inexcusable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

903.034

So from a flag standpoint, you don't think there's any way he goes back, right? Because that's another narrative. I don't see why he would. Like start the clock, start the clock on your max extension. I don't know. Why would you wait another year to do it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

939.485

Stefan Diggs, 69 million for three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

954.695

In four years, he can sign a max when he's 22 years old. I don't know why you would delay that for any reason. He's also ready to play in the league. It's not like one of those situations where...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

96.051

I are about to talk about a little bit. Uh, and then coming up right after the Monday night title game, uh, you can get that as well. Coming up on this podcast. We did it last year. We did the made up NBA awards with one week to go in the season. I had a great time. So we're bringing the gimmick back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

966.064

you know and watching him a lot it's been interesting like espn ran a comps thing about him and i'm not positive there's a specific comp there's pieces of different guys there's some stuff he does that reminds me of tatum even though they're completely different players but like body size the fact that he can impact the game the tatum version now in all these different ways but then there's pieces of other dudes i just think if i were him i'm coming in there's a weird scenario though where he could potentially wait to see who gets the pick

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

994.437

Right? Can he pull out by like... the lottery happens mid May and he, I think he can pull out like the end of May, something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Luka Gets Traded to the Lakers… What??? | With Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney

0.563

This message comes from Fred Hutch Cancer Center, whose discovery of bone marrow transplants has saved over a million lives worldwide.

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Luka Gets Traded to the Lakers… What??? | With Ryen Russillo and Rob Mahoney

293.008

This message comes from your part-time controller. They're experts in nonprofit accounting, and their services are customizable to your nonprofit's specific needs. Learn more at yptc.com.

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Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

0.069

It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't miss your chance to win some money with America's number one sports book. I mean, post-trade deadline. We had one of the craziest trade deadlines we've ever had in the history of the league. We have Fox on San Antonio, Luca on the Lakers, Kuzma on the Bucks. Kidding. The Cavs got better.

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Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1003.962

So I don't know people like this podcast, for instance, maybe, uh, maybe overreacting to the first two months, but the Murray thing was scary because the Paul George thing was also scary. And guess what? That continues to be completely terrifying. So, you know, there was real signs of danger, but Murray played himself out of it to his credit.

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Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1049.255

So right now we have OKC Memphis. Denver is the top three. Denver threatening to pass Memphis. Houston Lakers. And Houston just, you know, has not been good for a couple weeks, but they've had some injuries. Lakers, I don't know what happens with them, 32-20. Clippers, 30-23, have been confusing for about a month now. They're fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1072.657

And then we move into that Minnesota-Dallas-Sacramento-Golden State thing. And we're going to talk about it when we do the NBA six-pack. The most notable thing is the Spurs feel like they've fallen out. And I think Phoenix is not dead yet. But people are definitely around the table like Jon Hamm and Landman. They're definitely around the hospital bed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1093.411

And maybe the doctor's like, you might want to say your goodbyes soon. They're almost at that point. But it feels like we actually might know the 10 playoff teams now. Unless you think Sacramento can fall out of this because like they had a bad loss with New Orleans tonight. They've won some goofy games. They're 20, 27. They honestly could be like 22 and 34.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

111.507

Please check out TheRinger.com because we have a bunch of good content this week, including some really good SNL stuff. We have... a fun MBA project coming next week. So stay tuned for that as well. And then the big news for the Ringer Podcast Network, starting this week, starting Sunday night, White Lotus is starting on HBO. Last season, Joanne Robinson and I

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1114.842

So if Phoenix was going to catch a team, that would be the team I pick. But what do you think? Do we have our 10 now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1189.406

You made a point earlier about Minnesota and how something about them seems comfortable against OKC, which is something you couldn't really say about a lot of teams. I think that might be just a lot of length on the perimeter and interchangeable guys and just people to throw at SGA. Today was the recipe for how you beat OKC in a playoff series where one, SGA doesn't have a good game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1213.501

And then two, they don't make a ton of threes. And, you know, it is a team, and I guess you could say this about any team in the league, but I really feel with them when they're down like 12 points, And you go, I mean, this is it. This is how you beat them. And then they win like their next 13 by an average of 20 points a game. But they can have that, you know, you can hit them with the haymaker.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1237.174

So if they're down 3-2 in a playoff series on the road in a game like today, that would be the recipe, I think. I still don't 100% trust anyone else on their team offensively except SGA. Yeah. And that's the one thing that gives me pause with like, just pencil them in. Like they have the best odds to win the West and it's an easy pick for the finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1257.229

But that's the one thing that makes me nervous when it's really nerve wracking gut crunch time. Ball crunch time? Gut crunch?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1271.537

Who, who am I going to if like Shea has five fouls late in the third quarter and I just need somebody to get me offense for like six minutes. That's what makes me nervous with them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

135.367

we did the recaps of White Lotus season two. And I think we might've done season one too. I can't remember. Anyway, season two we did. We added Mallory Rubin this season. White Lotus will end on HBO. We will be putting our podcast up as a video podcast on Spotify on the Prestige TV pod. And you can watch it on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel as well. Our recaps.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1359.482

We talked about it a little last week. I'm in the camp. They're playing so well. They look so good. And Wiggins, especially, that was the spot you would have improved. But he was just playing really well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1371.848

Yeah. So, all right. We trade Wiggins and contracts and a few of our picks to try to get DeAndre Hunter. Are we even better? Wiggins was playing really well. Yeah. Would you rather pay Wiggins, like a much smaller contract, or Hunter, 18 million a year? I can see why they... They always value the continuity.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1390.306

And it's one of those things that if it's in May and they lose in round two, we're going to be like, why didn't they make a trade?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1405.086

And a close team, too, that really seems like... That's where... Even the Cavs messing with what they have. It gets a little dangerous when you have a team that clearly likes each other. For sure. Dallas is the only other team, just quickly. Who knows when Davis comes back?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1421.711

The way Kyrie has played and kind of... I mean, this is one of the great 180s we've had by an athlete, Kyrie, the last two years, where I think he senses the moment in the city of Dallas... And the press conferences, the interviews that he's given, the way he's played where he's like, no, no, I got this. Come over here. Like, don't abandon the ship yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1446.344

If they can get Davis back in time, I don't know if they can, but if they can, it is an interesting team. You know, they have size, they have length, they have defense and the fans who seem like they were going to revolt against this team even three days ago. Like, I don't know. They were into the game today. They were cheering those guys and, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1465.578

You know, so they're kind of, I guess, over here on the side, depending on where they land. Right now they are 30-26, but no Davis for at least a month. So they'll be somewhere between 8-10, I would say, in the play-in, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

1515.315

They beat a heat team that just looks mediocre every night now. It just looks like it's the, uh, the end of the line. Um, I I'm thinking about the gut crunch. It's like a nineties exercise machine. Like I'm doing, I'm doing it. Yeah. You got crunch right now. Call now it's half off. Uh, we're going to take a break and then we're going to rip off an NBA six pack.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Michelob Ultra, a superior light beer and the ultimate trophy. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand. Michelob Ultra, crisp, refreshing, only 95 calories. A superior light beer. No matter the game, sport, or season, superior is worth playing for. Always be prepared for a win in order. Michelob Ultra today.

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Available on DoorDash, by the way. Enjoy responsibly 2025 Anheuser-Busch Michelob Ultra Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 plus to order alcohol. Alcohol available only in select markets. All right, Rob, it's time. It's time for a special part of today's episode brought to you by Michelob Ultra, a superior light beer.

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Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And not just because it's great tasting, Michelob Ultra is also getting fans closer to the game with Ultra Quartzside. It lets you sign up for a chance to win signed merch, courtside seats, and other one-of-a-kind experiences. Wish one of them was go out with big wads for the night in LA. Just visit micklobalcher.com slash courtside. Micklobalcher Superior is worth paying for.

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Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And then on Wednesdays, Rob Mahoney and Joanna Robinson will have the precaps for Prestige. They're also covering Severance on the Prestige TV pod. as well. So very excited. We love White Lotus. One of our favorite shows since we've had Grantland and the Ringer. We're talking since 2011. This is one of the OGs, one of the most fun TV shows to talk about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Speaking of Superior, let's unpack six major things going on in the basketball world right now. We have to start with the 76ers. So, I was thinking big splash teams in the last 25 years that just ended up being disappointing. Going back to post lockout, the 1999 Rockets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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When they put Barkley and Pippen and it came together and they were like, look at this. And then it was bad. The 2004 Lakers, even though they made the finals, that was still kind of disappointing the way it ended. But the big ones, 2013 Lakers with Dwight and with Nash.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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The Prokerov-Netz post-KG trade with Pierce and Joe Johnson and Darren Williams and Prokerov. Oh my God, he's going to basically do what the Dodgers just did in baseball. It didn't happen. 2019 Celtics, after they made the Eastern Finals without Kyrie. Kyrie came back. Hayward came back. Tatum, Jalen Brown. I think I went on Jalen and Jacoby's ESPN show and predicted them to win in the mid-60s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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That did not happen. The 22 Lakers with LeBron. and AD and a new addition, Russell Westbrook.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They ended up winning 33 games. And then the, uh, the nets after the foot on the line season, of course, the, uh, Katie Kyrie Harden thing, where does the Sixers just sucking? They're 20 and 34. Where does this rank on the, I can't believe this is happening scale for you because there were some signs, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Yeah, so there was some Paul George stuff that came out today from Shams that he had a screwed up finger tendon on his left hand. He's getting injections for it. I'm sure that's true, but it doesn't explain the fact that he looks just slower and more plodding and doesn't seem to have nearly the same burst and just seems like... Not only a step slow, but a second slow. Yeah. It is processing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And I don't know how that's the left-hand tendon thing. I don't get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So anyway, that's coming on the Prestige TV pod. Coming on this podcast, I'm going to talk to Rob Mahoney actually about what's going on in the West. What's up with the Warriors? Can they turn it around and we're going to open an NBA six pack? And then I had a whole SNL 50 thing I wanted to do about My favorite sketches, episodes, characters, musical performances.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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He hasn't helped himself with some of the comments either. No. Like when he complained about playing the five. There hasn't been a lot of, I'll do whatever it takes to win games, whatever. If they need me to play there, I'll play there. It's just there's a lot of like basic. You have to look at how the outside world is looking at you stuff with him. That just seems to be missing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Well, the biggest thing they got was the Eagles had a playoff run and won the Super Bowl. That's very true. And Curtis and I talked about it on Thursday, this rarely seen Super Bowl news dump after they won when they were like, hey, Embiid might get surgery again. I don't know where this is going. And they just snuck that one out under the dead of night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But I think if Philly had been knocked down in round one, the Eagles... And then, you know, people really had a chance to stare at the Sixers season with the kind of season Maxie's having, where he's almost averaging 28 a game. Yabasele, they really lucked out with that. And they're still, they're 20 and 34. They're six and 14 in their last 20. In that last 20, they have the 23rd net rating.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So they're just been a bottom eight team for, you know, a good 40% of the season here. They've only gotten 17 games from Embiid. And yet they're only, uh, a game and a half behind Chicago for the 10th seed and Chicago doesn't want to keep winning? So they might stumble in anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Orlando is 27 and 29 in the seventh seed and they haven't been happy with their team for two months. No. Atlanta is 26 and 29. They're the eighth seed. They made two like borderline dump trades, the Hunter trade and the Bogdanovich trade. Those are trades you make when, um, you don't care where your season is going. They can't really dump cause they don't have their first round pick. But, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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It all makes sense when you listen to it. That's at the tail end of this pod. My fingers actually worked. I wrote some stuff. So there you go. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Rob Mahoney is here. We are taping this part of the podcast late on Thursday night, 8 p.m. PT. Just watched a bunch of basketball and tied into what I want to talk about with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And then you have Miami at the nine seed, 25 and 28, who just like, you know, I think they'd be maybe the second worst team in the West. Would you rather be Miami or Portland right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I want to audible to that as the second thing of the six pack. But before we do, the Embiid thing, do we see him again? He's played 17 games. Does he play 20?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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The problem is making the playoffs. Embiid could never play 14 games in four weeks. It's never happening. So even if you like miraculously won both playing games, I don't know where that's getting you. All right. The second thing you mentioned the draft pick. OKC gets Philly's first after the top six. So Philly keeps it first six spots. If it's the seventh pick, OKC gets it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But this is one of many things. This is the all-time, what the hell is happening in the first round thing. It's batshit. It's either 15 or six. There's so many teams. There's a couple of things I can't even really figure out who gets to pick. Yeah. So it's about half the league. OKC gets Phillies first after top six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They get Utah's first after the top, if it's out of the top 10, but Utah's probably going to keep that pick. Miami gets Golden State's first if it falls out of the top 10. I think that's probably happening. Atlanta gets Sacramento's first if it falls out of the top 12. I think that might happen. The Knicks get Detroit's first if it falls out of the top 13. I think that's happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So we already have four teams that are going to give their pick to somebody else. OKC gets Miami's first. If they don't make the playoffs, basically. So that's 50-50. We'll see. Then we have San Antonio gets Atlanta's first. Utah gets Minnesota and Cleveland's first. The Pelicans get the Lakers first. Brooklyn gets New Orleans first, Milwaukee's first, and the Knicks first. I think that's right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I'm going to take that one out. Brooklyn gets Milwaukee's first and the Knicks first. Keep in the air. Orlando gets Denver's first. And then we have this trade where OKC can swap... and get the best pick from the Clips or Houston, their choice. Houston can take the second best pick and swap it to Brooklyn for Phoenix's first.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Phoenix, I guess, loses the pick either way, and then the Clips get the worst of all those. I'm going to figure out that sequencing in about a month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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All of those picks I laid out, what is the most alarming to you for the team losing the pick? Oh, great question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So you have a chance to get all these new look teams and maybe just ride Luca forever. and his point over in the Lakers to win as a parlay over and over again as he gets vengeance on the Mavericks. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Enjoy our new NBA player prop pages. The app is safe and secure and easy to use. And when you win, you'll get paid instantly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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One thing I was thinking with all the OKC things in play, let's say they get the seventh pick from Philly. Yeah. And let's say they get Miami's pick because Miami's a playoff team and then they have their own pick. Yeah. And then they can also swap with the Clippers or Houston. So that's a middle. So they'll have four picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Three. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Three, including Philly's pick, which could be in the 7, 8, 9 range.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But then they have all these other picks because they have a million kajillion picks. Yep. And we've been watching this going, what are they going to do with all these picks? They already like their roster. They only have a couple of spots anyway. Could this be the year that they take that 7th, 8th, 9th Philly pick, if that's the pick, add like eight picks to it and just say, give us Cooper flag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Here's the all time mother load of picks. Like let's say Charlotte gets the first pick and they could just trade back like six spots. out of the Cooper flag spot and just get a war chest of the, the all time most picks ever in a trade from OKC just to move back six spots. You'd have to have like a four hour meeting about that. I feel like Cooper flags really good. Yep. I love him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I'm probably the highest on him out of, out of, uh, you know, cause he's a big intangibles guy and I know I'm going to overreact as we get closer to June. But you'd have to really think about it because it's not a Wimbinyama pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Yeah, and I know whoever gets the first pick wouldn't want to trade him, but there's a price for everything, and there's a price to make you go, holy shit, you're going to offer me 220 cents in the dollar for this pick? But I honestly think that's what OKC has to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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The West, we're going to start with. You had Golden State win today. You had Dallas hold on and win. You had Minnesota beat OKC. And then you look at the West and you have all these teams jammed together. Golden State's the 10 seed with 27 losses. Minnesota's... The seventh seed with 25 losses. I'm the most interested in the Warriors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Yeah. I don't even know how they fix it. And Adam Silver should not be the one explaining who gets what. They should maybe hire Bobby Marks just for three hours as his assistant, just to be over on the side, just letting out whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Well, OKC and San Antonio, San Antonio is the other team. Like if Atlanta's pick miraculously got in the top four and it got to like four, San Antonio would have enough assets to really try to climb three picks. So it'll come down to how generationally you think Cooper Flagg is. And, you know, I don't think he's in the Wemby Anthony Davis sure thing class.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You really have to believe in some other stuff. I personally think there's no way he misses because how competitive he is. But, you know, six, seven and a half. There's things you could, to me, he's the perfect stretch for, but we'll see. All right. Next thing on the six pack.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Speaking of the draft, the Brooklyn Nets, the team that just won't tank, the team that has players telling reporters, hey, we're going to try to keep winning games. If you don't like it, don't root for us, which I love. So they're 20 and 34. They're one and a half games behind Chicago for the 10th seed. Which is tied with Philly, but does it feel the same as Philly to you, Rob?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Not even a little bit. They have a great coach. They made the mistake of... They kept Cam Johnson and Nick Claxton, but they also have D'Lo on the... I'm so happy not to be on the Lakers anymore. I'm going to go nuts. They're 6-1 in their last seven. Their defense held all seven opponents to under 100. Seventh net rating over that time. They bought out Ben Simmons.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They traded Schroeder and they traded Finney Smith. And yet they're still hanging around. And this was not the plan. They made a trade with Houston. I'm sorry, with Houston to try to get their picks back and give them Phoenix picks. And they were going to tank. Now, I don't know. They might make the playoffs. What would you do if you were running Brooklyn?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And I've watched every minute of all of their games since they made this Jimmy Butler trade. And there's something here. And I don't know what it is yet, but I like it. I don't know where it's going to go. Their ceiling feels a little higher. I don't think they're going to win the title, but they're the most intriguing team to me. That's not Denver. The Lakers are obviously OKC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I saw this happen a decade ago with Brad Stevens and the Celtics and we were all going nuts because we wanted them to lose. But ultimately, you do build some sort of a weird DNA That you didn't just roll over, which brings me to the next person on my six pack list or next team, Charlotte, who has achieved peak tank. I don't know if you've looked at their box scores.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They tried to trade Mark Williams and couldn't get rid of him. And now I guess he's just in limbo as they fight about whether that trade was legal or not. Brandon Miller had surgery, which is too bad. They signed Alfred Payton and Taj Gibson, and both of them are playing. They have to play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They took on Nurkic in a salary dump. And Nurkic has now found his destiny where, you know, he'll have like a 27 rebound game where they still lose by 28. And then they also have LaMelo Ball, who's one of the great, great stats, bad team guys of the last 30 years. I thought it was hilarious that people are like, wow, how did he get left out of the All-Star game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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He just jacks up shots and they lose. He's not an All-Star. That's unkind.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Would you want to play with him for six months a year? Be honest. Would you want to be his small forward? Would you want to be Brandon Miller?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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This is the only team. I really like Charles Lee. I think he's a good coach. This is the only team I don't want Cooper Feig to go to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They certainly are. They're working it. Next one on the six pack. The Chicago Bulls. putting together the finishing pieces of an epic 10-year run, starting in the 15-16 season, 42-40, 41-41, 27-55, 22-60, 22-43, 31-41, 46-36 in the 22 season, lost in the first round, 40-42, 39-43, 22-33 with a chance to make the play-in again. This is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Reinsdorf's like manifest destiny just to, to, uh, to not pay luxury tax, to be somewhere near the plan, to not actually be a threat, to not really have a direction. It's like, are they tanking? Are they like they re-sign Lonzo Ball? They could have traded them for a first round pick that came out. Now they kept them, uh, They have Giddy. They have Kobe White. Kind of like Budzelas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I think they're the fourth most intriguing team to me, Rob.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Vucevic is still there. They overpaid Patrick Williams. I don't know what this team is. They don't either. And this is just what we're doing in the third biggest city in America, Rob. Apparently it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Also, what qualifier isn't a very good player, a star?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I don't think they have one very good player. I don't think Kobe White's very good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Very good to me is like if my son came home from school and I said, how did your history test go? And he said, very good. Okay. I'm thinking that's like an A minus. Very good is like really positive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They got nothing from Levine. They have no extra first-round capital other than this weird protected first-rounder they have from Portland that they'll probably never get. They have an absentee landlord as an owner. I think I would take every single team in the East's future over theirs. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Yeah, Charlotte, the Brooklyn Picks. Yep. Even Philly, I have Maxie, and I have... you know, hopefully some tradable assets and maybe Embiid will come back. Maybe I could turn Embiid into something. I would rather have every other roster in the East over Chicago's. I don't even know what their number one asset is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Jordan Poole's probably better than anyone on the Bulls.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But I thought somebody should have traded for him. We talked about it last week. I actually think he's really figured some shit out and he's at least done it on a big stage before. But Jordan Poole's had an exceedingly... Yeah, I like Koulibaly and Saar and Carrington. They've got guys. They're okay. They're going to have cap space.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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If I was a Chicago Bulls fan, I would be losing my mind. Rightly so. They're in the third biggest city in America. The Celtics are about to sell for between six and six and a half billion. So the Bulls are worth somewhere around there. Why can't they just sell the team if they're not going to run it correctly? It's a great question. How long can you live off the Jordan?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And how long can you be like, oh man, if D Rose didn't get hurt in round one, oh man, that was 13 years ago. I know. Last one on the six pack.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You wanted to talk about the Suns, who have a net rate in their last 15 games of 18th, who in their last 58 games, including the playoffs, are 26 and 32, who tried to trade Kevin Durant for about a week before they told him or his agent or his manager that that was even happening. And now it's like, yeah, this summer they're probably going to trade KD. This is grim. What are you seeing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Well, the problem is they had a certain coach last year that they made the scapegoat for everything. Frank Vogel, who won the 2020 title. Um, they brought in coach bud, completely different philosophy. He's going to unleash these guys offensively and they're even worse. But to me, it's a talent problem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I was, I was looking, I look right around this time where you have like, like I would say, okay, see Boston and Cleveland are the three best teams, right? In some order. And then you think like, they probably have the best rosters, the nine man rotation, uh, who would you take on a team like Phoenix? How many of their guys, other than the top two, would even play for one of the top three teams?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So that would be either Beal. Yeah. He would. I think Beal would play off the bench for at least Boston and Cleveland. I don't know about OKC. Maybe. Who's he playing over?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So you're giving him Isaiah Joe's minutes? Sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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OK, so he's in the seven, eight or ninth man range for the top three teams. Fair?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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First guy off the bench. I would still rather bring Pritchard off the bench before him, but that's just me. Grayson Allen or Royce O'Neal, do they play for any of the top three teams in the top nine of their rotations?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Yeah, it feels like I rounded them out. I also, like you mentioned the rebounding, the offensive rebounding, the free throws. That game yesterday that they played against Dallas, where it basically came down to Moody makes a corner three, I think they win. If Jimmy just goes to the basket with his right hand instead of crossing over, going to Kyrie, they might win that one too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Maybe Boston, like the Kata, the random Kata game. Maybe Nick Richards is getting that asset. I bring this up because it's just grim what Phoenix did with all the stuff they traded away. And, you know, I defended the Durant trade when it happened, or at least the idea of it. Even that night, none of us understood why Cam Johnson was in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But when you're throwing in as many assets as they did, but then also paralyzing themselves to trade other picks and... I don't see you now. And I don't really know what Katie is worth this summer either. Yeah. That's not like a miraculous parachute out of here. He's going to, but that it's going to be his 19th season next year. What do you, what do you, what are you getting for him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Are you getting like Jalen green and a, a first and a... I don't know. What are you actually getting for Kevin Durant at this point in his career? He's got one year left in his deal?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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How many teams did Luka fuck up during his career in the Mavs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Because that game seven definitely was some sort of weird kados with the Suns. Yep. The Minnesota, the fact that they beat Minnesota, I don't know if they trade towns if they make the finals. Probably not. Then Dallas themselves. That's another one. Yeah. Right. So there's already... There's three with the blood on his hands. Yeah, the Phoenix thing feels like a wrap.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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We have not heard a lot from Ishbia lately. No. There are no fixes. And then they're in a conference where this can't happen. We're going to have San Antonio coming.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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OKC's already there. Jokic, you're going down the line. It's like there's... This is it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But the symmetry of the team seems to make sense now because Jimmy, even though, what is he, 6'5", 6'6"?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Well, the sad thing is Brooklyn had... a few of those picks that they gave back to Houston to get their pick back so they could tank. And now they're not even tanking correctly, but they, those Phoenix picks are looking pretty juicy before we wrap up the six pack San Antonio. When do they throw the flag into this season? They're just far enough away that you could talk me into it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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What does throwing in the flag look like? Some Wemby rest management. Some Wemby, hey, we need to sit him down for three games. We're worried about some fake tendinitis and some fake part of his body.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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All right, wherever he is. There's a post-up element with them that they just didn't have before unless it was Kaminga. And when it's Kaminga, you lose some of the IQ stuff. With Butler, you don't. You get the IQ stuff. So now you have him with Draymond, with Steph. And it's funny to call them a high IQ team because they also make some of the stupidest plays you'll see every night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Portland could pretty easily pass them. They could be the third worst team in the West. And they would be either four or five or six teams worse than them in the East. They could be in the six to nine range with that draft pick, which puts you in... lottery mode. I actually really thought that they were going to make a little bit of a run and they just can't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I thought Boston really exposed some of the issues with them. I don't know if you're watching the game. They attacked Wemby in a really unique way that I haven't seen teams do before. And just in general, it just looked like two different classes of teams. And then you think the Warriors got better. I don't really see the path for them. Anything else you want to hit before we go?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Well, that's it for today's Six Pack. But if that's not enough for you, remember, Michelob Ultra Courtside can get you closer to the actual tons of different prizes. Go stock up before the next game. Enter for your chance to win at MichelobUltra.com slash Courtside. Michelob Ultra Superior Access. Courtside 2024 to 2025. Sweepstakes. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 or older.

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Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Begins October 1st, 2024. That already happened. Ends on July 1st, 2025. Multiple entry periods. Visit MichelobUltra.com slash Superior Access slash Courtside for free entry. Entry deadlines. I'm almost done. Official rules. Message and date rates may apply. Void where prohibited. Enjoy responsibly. 2025 Anheuser-Busch. Michelob Ultra. Light beer. St. Louis. Missouri.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Rob, we're both on the Prestige TV podcast. Doing White Lotus. I'm doing the recap with your TV wife, Joanna Robinson, and Mallory Rubin on Sunday nights. And then you and Joanna are doing the pre-caps, diving into theories on Wednesdays. You can find that on, that's gonna be a video podcast on the Prestige feed. That's also on our Ringer-TV YouTube channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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What are you the most excited about White Lotus?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You live vicariously. Just like nice TV. Just kind of zone in. See the trees. There's a lot of monkeys. There's a lagoon. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Really good. Anyway, you can hear us both on the Prestige TV pod. You can hear Rob on the Ringer NBA show on group chat as well. And you can read him on an excellent website called theringer.com. Mahoney, good to see you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Saturday Night Live premiered on October 11th, 1975, the same night as game one of the World Series between Pete Rose's Big Red Machine and my beloved Boston Red Sox. I turned six two weeks earlier. I have one hazy memory from that shutout victory for the Red Sox in game one. It was Louis T on teetering around the bases, somehow scoring. while wearing a puffy blue warmup jacket. It was amazing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Was I sleeping later that night when John Belushi declared his intention to feed his fingertips to the Wolverines? Of course I was. But the 75 Red Sox were my first favorite baseball team and SNL eventually became one of my favorite TV shows ever. For the rest of the 1970s, SNL thrived in some alternate universe that just would not include me. We all knew about the show in school.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I don't think any team has sloppier, worse turnovers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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We knew it was funny. We noticed the commercials. We knew our parents stayed up to watch it, but we couldn't sample it until fourth grade because something special happened that year. That's when best of SNL shows started popping up in prime time as fillers for NBC's canceled shows. Suddenly the nerds, the coneheads, the wild and crazy guys, the cheeseburger guys, they all became part of our lives.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Needless to say, I loved everyone. I loved everything, but I really loved John Belushi. The Samurai Guy, Joe Cocker, the Chocolate Donuts commercial, the But No update monologues. This human being actually existed every week on some show way past my bedtime? How is this fair? How could I watch more? How could I get there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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We didn't have DVR, YouTube, or social media in 1979, as you could probably guess. Once that week's SNL host said goodnight, the episode vanished into thin air. The only time you would watch it again is if it was in a rerun that summer. So I was out of luck until fate intervened. That same winter, my parents separated and I became an only child with an insane amount of leverage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Leverage used for self-serving proclamations like, I don't care what my bedtime is. I'm staying up late for Saturday Night Live. So one of my first live SNL shows was hosted by Margot Kidder during Kidder's brief apex between Superman and Amityville Horror. Two movies that I like. You wouldn't remember this apex unless you're over 50 years old.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But one of SNL's underrated traits as an American pop culture institution is It catches 90% of our most famous actors, actresses, and musicians at the exact point when they are precisely the most famous. Think about that. The most famous. That's SNL. The best sketch from that show? Kidder's Lois Lane character threw a birthday party for Bill Murray's Superman character.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And she invited some various superheroes to come along. And I'm watching it live. I'm just sitting there waiting for my guy Belushi. And at the three-minute mark, the doorbell rings. Kidder opens the door. There's Belushi. Strolls in cackling. He's covered in green. He's dressed like, oh my God, he's dressed like the Incredible Hulk.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And even now you can listen for the audience laughing and clapping just at the mere sight of John Belushi. Because in 1979... There was no safer comedy wager in America than John Belushi as the Incredible Hulk. So he ambled over to Superman, shakes his hand, screams in mock pain. Oh, let go, let go, let go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And then later he annihilates the bathroom with an Incredible Hulk poop as everyone recoils in horror. He comes out. Come on, take it easy. It's not supposed to smell like roses. I never laughed so hard in my life. This was done. This was a wrap. I had a new favorite guy, a new favorite show. I stayed up for a few more season four episodes, and then Belushi left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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He left with Dan Aykroyd for Hollywood, but I still watched all of season five. Once NBC started airing one-hour Best of Best in L shows on Wednesdays in the fall of 1979, suddenly kids like me could retroactively experience every famous sketch. Did NBC realize? Did they realize they were cultivating the next generation of SNL diehards? Of course they didn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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This was the same year they trotted out Super Train. There wasn't a dumber TV network than NBC in 1980, so we can call it a happy accident. But that summer, I made my father bring me to two R-rated movies, Caddyshack and the Blues Brothers, just to see Chevy and Murray and Belushi and Aykroyd. And that fall, we bought a cumbersome VCR and SNL became part of my life for good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Over the next five decades, the most important sketches and moments hinged on four impossible to totally measure questions. Factor number one, What was the impact in the moment? For instance, you might have a personal history of the Wayne's World franchise that's colored by two movies and a whopping 19 SNL sketches. You heard me, they did 19.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Maybe Wayne and Garth stopped making you laugh 25 years ago. I sure hope not because we're doing Wayne's World on Monday's Rewatchables. That still holds up, by the way. But the first Wayne sketch happened on Leslie Nielsen's February 89 show, not long after Mike Myers joined the cast when he was simply the guy in the credits who had the same name as the killer from Halloween.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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That's how we knew him. Then they did Wayne's World. Everything killed. Wayne killed. Garth killed. The whole cable show in a basement angle killed. You watched the sketch in the moment. You thought, I want more of these guys. Do this sketch again. And for me in the moment matters more than everything else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You know, you know, with more cowbell, Barry Gibb talk shows, Star Trek convention, Mr. Belvedere, you always know right away with SNL. So that's factor number one. Factor number two is the sketch still funny right now. A little less important because comedy, you know, sometimes doesn't age that great. Sometimes the things we thought were funny in 1994, we don't think are as funny now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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It's also hinging on something that happened in the moment, sometimes, which is like one of the last Wayne's World sketches ever, which happened in 1994's Heather Locklear show, yet another host apex. And in the sketch, Wayne starts dreaming that he ended up in Melrose Place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Now, this is something that would make no sense to anybody who's under 40 and can't remember Melrose Place if they watched in 2025. But in the moment, It was one of TV's hottest shows. Sandler parroting Billy the Pee-Whip Boyfriend was the highest of high comedy. You have to believe me. Everyone despised that Billy character, only the internet didn't exist yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And we couldn't properly ridicule him. So Adam Sandler spoke for everybody. And that matters, even if the sketch itself hasn't aged well. Factor number three, does the sketch have any belated significance that transcended the sketch itself? Okay, here's a good example.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Will Ferrell's first SNL season, 1995, 1996, that followed the critically reviled season 20, which nearly submarine the show and left New York Magazine's infamous takedown cover story as its enduring legacy. How about that as a legacy? That summer, NBC makes a fuss. They're blowing up the cast. They're blowing up the writing staff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And you had a real sense the show was on life support, which would have been the third time in 20 years. We felt that way. So season 21, Merrill Hemingway is hosting the first episode. I'm visiting my buddy Jim Grady in Connecticut and we play shuffleboard until 4 a.m. at Sam's in Port Chester, where I'm still the GOAT.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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One of those nights when I woke up on Sunday morning with my contact lenses still in my eyes, unable to remember how I ended up on the sofa and wondering why I didn't have a blanket. Nobody else was awake. I loaded up SNL on Jim's TV and I watched through bleary eyes as Farrell's first big sketch comes on. Get off the shed. And again, I'm hungover as all hell. I can barely see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And this new cast member is jumping right off the screen at me. Who is this guy? He dragged at least four wheezy post-cigarette binge cough laughs out of me. And at some point, Jim heard me laughing and rolled out of bed and I immediately replayed Get Off the Shed for him. And now Jim was saying, who is this guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Later, Farrell plays a husband who kept coming up with off-color excuses to derail his wife and get her off the phone. That character was funny too. Combining the impact of those two sketches. You knew that your life in 1995 was suddenly 0.77% better with this Will Ferrell guy. You knew right away. And two decades later, Get Off the Shed isn't one of Ferrell's 10 funniest SNL sketches.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Husband Excuses probably doesn't crack the top 30. But that first episode mattered. There was a new sheriff in town. You needed to start watching SNL every week again. And that matters in the big scheme of things, right? So that's the third factor. The fourth factor, it's a cousin of In the Moment. Did you know immediately that something truly spectacular had just happened?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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All right, let's go back to 1975. Richard Pryor is about to host the 11th episode. They've already banked 10. SNL has already established itself as TV's most groundbreaking show. No comedy show belonged to the baby boomer generation until SNL showed up. This is a generation that devoured Rolling Stone. They devoured their rock music. They hated Vietnam and Nixon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They revered George Carlin, Richard Pryor. They loved improv. They loved Harper Lampoon. They despised traditional sitcoms and variety shows like Carol Burnett. They needed their own show. So after 10 episodes, Michaels, Lorne Michaels, figures out a show-to-show structure for that specific audience that barely looks different than the one today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Sketches, weekend update, music, comedy performances, short film, basically in that order. I don't think he ever intended the show to reach 30 million people some nights, but who the fucking predict this shit? So Pryor was that generation's hottest comedian. which meant no season one episode carried higher expectations. Chevy Chase had already become a huge star. What happens?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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It becomes SNL's first Pantheon show. Pryor's monologue, predictably great. Exorcist parody kills. Pryor and Belushi did Samurai Hotel. And everything peaks with word association, which is a sketch that pitted two of comedy's biggest stars against one another, Pryor and Chevy Chase, who's the breakout guy for season one. And thanks to a sizzling performance by Pryor,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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The racial tension that builds during that sketch still plays 50 years later. It's not a sketch that's aged well, but it's one of the most important SNL moments ever because nobody had ever tried anything like it on live television before. This was dunking from the foul line shit. This was Dr. J in the ABA contest. That was word association.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So my favorite SNL episode ever also had my favorite SNL sketch ever and my favorite musical performance ever. This was when Stevie Wonder hosted. And they do this sketch called the Stevie Wonder Experience. This is eight years after Pryor, 1983. Wonder hosts right as Eddie Murphy is doing this wicked and slightly controversial impression of him. And Eddie's a huge star at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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It's also a team that when Kaminga comes back becomes even more interesting because now they'll have multiple things to look at. They can ride him. There's some Butler Kaminga stuff already. I don't know if you've seen it. A little hint of I might take this guy under my wing. Okay. A little mutual admiration society stuff. Maybe I'll take him to Jimmy Butler grad school.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You're watching the show live and you're thinking, There's no way that he's going to do Stevie in front of Stevie, right? But you're secretly kind of hoping he would. So it finally happens in a sketch with Joe Piscopo, who's playing an agent. He brings in Stevie, who's a celebrity impersonator, and they audition for Murphy, who's a music executive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And the catch is that Stevie's character bills himself as the Stevie Wonder experience, only he's doing a Stevie impersonation. It's horrible. And Murphy goes, no, no, no, no, you're doing it all wrong. and proceeds to slip on a pair of sunglasses and the crowd goes batshit. And he does Stevie with Stevie standing right next to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So I'm 13 when this happened, which is probably the best age to fall in love with SNL, even though I was already in love. And you can think I'm crazy. I don't care. But the most exciting non-sports TV moments of the early eighties were this sketch, Letterman taking a show to LA and having Carson as a guest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Michael Jackson singing Billie Jean and doing the moonwalk on the Motown 25 special, which was amazing. Reagan getting shot by Hinckley. Roddy Piper smashing the coconut in Jimmy Snuka's head in the premiere of Thriller on MTV. And I can't accept any other arguments. Anyway, Eddie brings the house down with an impression of Stevie singing My Sharia Mornings. Unbelievably crushes it, kills it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Stevie's standing right there. Crowd settles down. Stevie tries his impersonation again. It's still terrible. Eddie takes over, nails it a second time. Crowd settles down. Scene shifts back to Stevie for one last attempt. And only this time, fake Stevie suddenly turns into real Stevie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And he belts out an acapella version that's, you can't even describe how good it is because nobody brought it quite like Stevie in his prime. He nails the last note and the studio erupts like someone made a mid-chord shot to win a tournament game. If you watch the tape, Piscopo breaks character. He lets out this delighted yelp. That's how remarkable it was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So I know he's a first bout Hall of Famer. I know he's a musical icon. but I can't imagine Stevie Wonder ever bringing the house down quite like that. And Eddie pushed him there. Of course, Eddie never breaks character. He waits for the applause to die down and waits an extra second. And then he finally says, nah, man, it still sucks. Huge laugh, perfect ending.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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One of the greatest sketches in the history of the show. And at that specific moment, You would bet anything that Murphy would be one of the biggest stars in the world someday. But that's what made him such a unicorn. By sheer coincidence, by dumb luck, an SNL show that desperately needed energy and diversity and a real star stumbled into someone basically created by God to appear on the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So of the biggest stars in SNL history, Only Eddie broke into show business on the show. He was a cast member at 19. He was the show's meal ticket by 20. He was a movie star by 21. And he was a full-fledged super duper star by 22 and headed to Hollywood for good at 23. We will never see it again. He's the most talented SNL cast member ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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He's the only one to host the show when he was starring on it. And for that and many other reasons, I have Eddie as the SNL GOAT cast member, and I'll fight people in a bar if they want to come up with somebody else. Here's the thing. Only Eddie and Will Ferrell could carry an entire season by themselves. This is like you're using the 2009 LeBron and the Cavs analogy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So download the app today, Bet With FanDuel, an official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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How many guys could you win 60 games with if they were the only really good guy in the team? That was Eddie and Will Ferrell, and that's really it. So if you're building the hypothetical GOAT SNL cast, I think you have to have Eddie and Farrell or I can't take the list seriously. It's non-negotiable. But what would the rest of the cast look like? Well, three things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Not teach him the stuff from the last year in Miami, but the first couple years. One of the things that's been so much fun to watch with these Golden State games is just having Butler back As an invested, happy, engaged guy in the sidelines doing like fish bumps. Just super competitive aggro and not looking like he just lost his dog. And that he wants to just walk off the court.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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First of all, SNL needs to move like a basketball team. You need an eight-man rotation. You need one wild card off the bench. You want enough minutes for everyone. This is always the mistake the show makes over the years when they have these big, fat, swollen casts. You have a 90-minute show with commercials. It's really about 67 minutes of content. You have weekend update.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You have two musical acts. So maybe five, six sketches max plus a couple update things. You don't need 17 people. You need eight, maybe nine. So we'll have the wild card. We'll have the Dion Waiter spot. That's one. Second, the best SNL cast members can either carry a sketch or glue guy a sketch. And the glue guy thing is super important because that's what Phil Hartman was the best at.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You have to be able to do both. You can't just be a one man show. And in this case, it's a lot like basketball. Can you take over a game? Can you set other people up? Can you play characters? Can you play the straight man? Can you sell other people? Can you do anything? You want a whole cast of these people. Again, you got to think like it's a basketball team. You want the ball to move around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And then the third thing is I was trying to include different errors to the best of my ability. So Eddie and Farrell ran. I got seven spots left. Phil Hartman was the best glue guy in the show's history. Dana Carvey, who I think is the most underrated male cast member now, he would have thrived on any cast for the entire 15 years and was a force of nature. Same for Bill Hader.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So there's five, and I don't think you can leave any of them off. Eddie, Farrell, Hartman, Carvey, Hader. Best female cast member ever. It's still Gilda Radner. It's not fun to say because she was on the first cast and she kind of had the title to begin with. And then other people probably tried to take it from her, not knowing, but she's still the best.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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She's the best female cast member in the history of the show. Kristen Wiig was right up there. So she's included to that seven. And I thought Maya Rudolph was the most underrated female cast member ever. She could carry any type of sketch. She could do all the musical stuff. So that would be my eight. And then obviously for the wild card, I got to have Belushi.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So I have Eddie Farrell, Gilda, Wig, Hartman, Hater, Carvey, Maya, and Belushi. I'm rocking with those nine. My weekend update guy, Norm MacDonald. Come on. Still living on social media 30 years later. They're still running his jokes from update. So I have Norm. I'm turning over all digital videos. I'm doing a time machine loop here to Andy Sandberg and Adam Sandler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They're just going to work together, even though they're from different eras. Knock yourself out, guys. And then I have the following 10 hosts, Tom Hanks, John Goodman, Steve Martin, Chris Walken, Alec Baldwin, Dave Chappelle, Emma Stone, Ariana Grande, Melissa McCarthy, and Candice Bergen. If you're drawn from all the eras, that's the best 10 you're going to come up with.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But remember, this is my list. Doesn't mean it's right. I've only been watching the show for my entire life. What do I know? All right. 10 best episodes ever. So these are my 10. They might not be your 10. These are mine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Stevie Wonder, 1983, which had the Stevie experience, had the Canon camera ad, Dion the hairdresser, and three Stevie songs, including him singing Overjoyed, which is the best musical moment in the history of the show. That's one I won't argue about. Go watch it if you don't believe me. The crowd goes nuts and just keeps cheering. It's like a sporting event. So I have that episode.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Richard Pryor, 1976. which also had two standups from him too. It had Samurai Hotel, Word Association, the Chevy Weekend Update. That's the first great SNL show. Jim Carrey in 1996, which was the last episode of the aforementioned comeback season. This is Carrey at the peak of his powers. He's coming off... He'd had the mask and he's Ventura. He's Dumb and Dumber.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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He's suddenly one of the biggest movie stars and SNL had rejected him. So he comes out with a huge chip on his shoulder. There's Fireman Bill, Night at the Roxbury, Joe Pesci's show with Jimmy Stewart, does the cheerleaders, does Jacuzzi Lifeguard. Also, you had Norm on Update who was on fire and you had a David Spade Hollywood Minute. So this is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Probably the best show of the last 30 years that they had. And by the way, Soundgarden was the guest. Steve Martin in 1978. This was why they considered to be the best show of the Belushi-Ackroyd-Murray era. Blues Brothers as the musical guest. Steve Martin said, it was the peak of me. Actual quote, King Tut did the wordless guild, the dancing scene, wild and crazy guys, medieval barber.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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There was a point counterpoint on Weekend Update with Jane Curtin and Dan Aykroyd that I always enjoyed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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when uh jane would make her point and then dan would go jane you ignorant and uh a joke that would not fly 50 years later but it was really funny because that's what newscasts were like back then it was these males just dominating the show and the woman was over there so they're paired in that really funny nerd science fair was on that as well all right fifth one tom hanks in 1988 which i think is in the running for best season opener ever and probably was this had the bush to caucus debate

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Dan Aykroyd as Bob Dole. John Lovitz as Dukakis going, I can't believe I'm losing to this guy. So I have that. There's a parody of the movie, Big. Dennis Miller's on update. They do the all-drug Olympics on this one. They played a game show called Jew, Not a Jew. That's actually pretty funny.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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They did the Girl Watchers thing with Lovitz and Hanks where they're just like, my forehead's just a little too big and all that stuff. Mr. Short-Term Memory, Hans and Franz. Great episode. So this is, I think the most underrated episode for me, David Allen Greer in 1995.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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they do the wake up and smile sketch where the teleprompter and the morning show breaks and they all kind of turn on each other. Lord of the fly style. It's unbelievable. It's one of the 10 best sketches. So that's on there. Spade does Hollywood minute. Will Ferrell does a Brian Boitano impersonation. Ted Koppel as doing a Michael Jackson, Jack Obacco.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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David Allen Gray plays Brian Gumbel off camera as like this real kind of basically like a crazy hood. It's hilarious. And then Norm was on update. So I'm putting that one on there. You also had, uh, Daryl Hammond on that show as Bill Clinton reviewing American president and talking about how much he loved that the, uh, the wife died and then silver chair was somehow the musical guest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So you have that William Shatner in 1986, this had Star Trek convention and Alzheimer's Sweeney sisters at Christmas, uh, TJ hooker parody. They had the star Trek five restaurant enterprise. This is one of the top seven shows ever. They've did a wonderful life parody. Tom Hanks in 1990. Hanks with two of the top seven for me. This is the one when Aerosmith came on. Aerosmith was on Wayne's world.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Hanks was the groupie doing the siblings, siblings, short term memory, tales of ribald, ribaldry, um, girl watchers, Miller and update, probably the best SNL cast of, of that era. Um, So I have that. I have Eddie Murphy's comeback show in 2019, which was emotional because nobody ever thought he was going to come back after the show made fun of him a couple of times. He finally came back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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He did all his old characters and it was awesome. Christopher Walken in 1992, where he did Trivial Psychic, Perot and Stockdale, The Continental, Stock Talk. There was a Sinead O'Connor parody. There was a Pat sketch. There was a Hollywood Minute and Jay and Brady on Weekend Update and Arrested Development. So that's... That's my top 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I also have, as Honorable mentioned, Timberlake in 2006 when he did Dick in a Box and Barry Gibbs Show. Lindsay Lohan in 2004 when she was in that famous Debbie Downer sketch. There was also a really funny Harry Potter sketch. Sting in 1991, which had the Sinatra group in it and some other stuff. Eddie Murphy when he came back to host in 1984.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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John Goodman in 1998, when he, when, uh, this is the episode they did Neil Diamond storytellers, but he also played Linda trip with Monica Lewinsky. Uh, there was a morning latte thing. It's just a really good episode start to finish. And then Adam Sandler, 2018, when he came back, he played the Farley song, which is, I think one of the most emotional moments in show history. And then, uh, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Betty White in 2010 when she came back. It was really fun. So for my favorite sketches ever, and these are in no particular order, the Tony Bennett show, the first time Baldwin did this when he had David Guest and Liza Minnelli on it, lines were crossed. That is still one of the five funniest sketches for me. It makes me laugh so hard. They sing a song together. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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It's making me laugh thinking about it. The Sinatra group with Phil Hartman when there was a parody of the McLaughlin group and he's got Billy Idol on there and Luther Campbell and he's just killing everybody. I watched this in college with my buddy Jacko, who was my roommate at the time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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We watched it on a Sunday morning after we woke up, but I think we watched it five times and we were talking like Sinatra, yelling at Steve and Edie for the rest of the week. Stevie Wonder experience I mentioned. The Neil Diamond Storytellers, that's the one where... Will Ferrell as Neil Diamond. Just going off the rails and being like, this is a song about my hatred of immigrants.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Just incredible stuff. Mr. Belvedere fan club. This is a fan club for Mr. Belvedere, Tom Hanks hosting, where they're all deciding how to interact with Mr. Belvedere. And it's really about fan obsession, but it's really, really good. Jackie Rogers Jr., Jack Potwad. That's with Martin Short. That was the funniest character he played on there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Dysfunctional Family Dinner with Sarah Michelle Gellar when Will Ferrell with the family is like just kind of eating, but then they would yell at each other and calm down. More Cowbell, you know that one. Buckwheat Gets Shot and Buckwheat Died, those two are classics. The first Barry Gibb talk show, I have that one. Debbie Downer at Disney, a classic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Greg the Alien, I think the most underrated Will Ferrell sketch where he's hosting a sports show, but he might be an alien. Star Trek convention with Shatner when he has all the Star Trek people and he's like, what's wrong with you people? And starts yelling at them. Reagan, the mastermind. Phil Hartman is Reagan. The Referee Pittman show is one of my most underrated ones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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John Goodman as Referee Pittman. It's a talk show and all the... All the people in the audience are like, hey, referee Pittman, how do you shove your head up your ass? Is it like, do you have to bend out? And it's just, they're just making referee jokes. Chippendale sketch with Chris Farley. Comedy killers, which was like Jeopardy, but with comedy killers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And then the final answer ends up being the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand. Incredible. Unfrozen caveman lawyer. Dysfunctional family feud.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Trivial Psychic, Farley the first time he did Matt Foley, Nick Cage and Tiny Elvis, Wake Up and Smile, which I mentioned earlier, Night at the Roxbury with Jim Carrey, which was just unbelievable because they had done the sketch a couple of times and then he came in and just physically was somehow outshone both of those guys. Election Night 2016.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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I don't have a lot of ones from the last 10 years just because you got to age with those, but Election Night 2016 with Chappelle. When everyone at the party is talking about how this is the worst thing that ever happened and Chappelle's doing Chappelle's stuff, great. And then Bargatze's Washington Dream thing was really good and they've done two of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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But that was, I think, of the last five years, probably the... probably one of the greats. And then the only other one I forgot to mention was the Joe Montana one, Sincere Guys Do. And Joe Montana is the biggest star in football and he's on there and you can hear his thoughts and his thoughts were, I'm going to go upstairs and masturbate. And it just was like shocking to hear Joe Montana say that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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So that would be my episodes. And then just for the hell of it, musical acts. Best musical performance ever. Stevie Wonder overjoyed. Second best. Paul Simon when he sang the boxer right after 9-11. Really great. I think one of the best moments in the history of the show with all the New York firefighters standing there and Giuliani. It's really special.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Queens of the Stone Age when they played Little Sister in 2002 and Pharrell came out and did the cowbell. Amazing. U2 did I Will Follow at the end of an SNL episode in 2004 and ended up kind of... They broke the fourth wall and kind of went in the audience. That was amazing. The bus boys saying boys are back in town in 1983, right at Eddie's apex. And Eddie just went out and sang it with them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And Dallas in the first half of last night's game tried to use the Draymond-Jimmy Lack of shooting from deep thing against them. And then Golden State figured that out. They went with a small ball thing. Dallas didn't have their centers last night, so it's hard to make too much out of it. But they went small. I guess Jimmy was the four. And then they had Moody and Pazemski and Curry with Draymond.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And it felt like a moment. Run DMC, walk this way, 1986. White stripes, dead leaves. in 2002, which is just like Jack White and Meg White at their fucking apex. It's awesome. Billy Joel sang Miami 2017 in 1981. It's really good. Nirvana, Teen Spirit, 1992. Blues Brothers, Soul Man, 1978. Really fun to watch though. Outkast sang Mrs. Jackson in 2002. Pearl Jam Porch, In 1992, you know I love that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You know I love Porch and Pearl Jam. Hole was awesome. They sang Violet in 1994. I would encourage you to find any of these, by the way. Billie Eilish, Bad Guy, 2019. Visually, it was amazing. Cannon Crowe sang Round Here in 1994. And it was their first song, not their second one. And they crushed it. And it basically made them a hit band. which is the power of that show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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If you crushed SNL, your albums took off. Sinead O'Connor, Last Day, 1990. Last Day of Our Acquaintance, 1990. The Prince song that was actually her song. And she's incredible in that. And then two years later comes back and does the Pope thing and almost commits a career suicide. Although now I think it's played out better for her. Kendrick in 2014 sang I. And it's great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Bowie did the Man Who Ruled the World in 1979, which was, I think, one of the coolest visual ones. Eminem and Dre sang still in 1999. And it's awesome. And then the last one I would recommend if you want to go look up any of these is Stevie Nicks' Stand Back in 1983. Because there's some guy that is dancing during the performance. You'll know it when you see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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It's a moment unlike anything ever in the show. And also, it's a really good song. So that's what I got. Those are all my SNL thoughts. I can't wait to watch SNL 50. If you want to read what I thought about SNL 40, it's in the Grantland archives actually from 10 years ago. But that's it. Those are all my thoughts. I word dumped them out to you on the pod and on the YouTube.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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You can watch me actually stumble through this. So there you go. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rob Mahoney. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal as well. Don't forget, Prestige TV podcast this weekend, White Lotus. Sunday night, me and Joanna and Mallory are going to be breaking all of it down. New rewatchables coming on Monday, Wayne's World.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And that will be the first video podcast on Spotify. Very excited about that. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on this feed on Sunday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And it was fun. They were like hustling around and it was old school Draymond. Here's the thing I'm watching with them. And I've been watching this for a while. And I really started thinking about it with the Ringer 100, with that exercise of... just trying to rank the best players against each other. And Curry was just a blind top seven, top eight guy. I'm not positive he's there anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And I don't know where he is in the top 20. But there's two things I've noticed. One is the consistency of being great just doesn't seem there. He's become a once a week, I'm awesome guy. He doesn't have the great kick-ass games that he used to have. And I actually went through... And I just looked at two things, because this is hard to kind of quantify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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How do you measure somebody's ceiling as a great player versus where it's been the last 10 years? He's 36 years old. You can look at all the counting stats. They're down a little bit, but not like too much. But the thing that was interesting to me, so in 2016, his second MVP season, he had 13 40 plus point games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And then if you go on basketball reference, that weird game score thing they have that I think I mostly like, it's at least, it's something. You know, if you're in the high 20s or higher, that means something good happened with the game you played.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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It's that you did a bunch of things well in the same game at kind of an unusually high level. So about 29 is a really nice game score in basketball reference. Again, arbitrary. But he had 24, 29 plus games from a game score standpoint in 16. This season he has three. This season, he has zero 40-point games. So even if you go back to 2022, he had seven 40-point games in their final season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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We added a new podcast to the Ringer Podcast Network and Spotify. It is Good Hang with Amy Poehler. She's great. It's going to be a huge, big, fat, awesome podcast. Subscribe, follow on Spotify. Premieres next week. We're also brought to you by the Ringer. podcast network. I put up a new rewatchables in honor of SNL 50. We did the Blues Brothers, me, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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He had 10 29-plus game-scorer games. In 23, he had 13 29-plus game-scorer games. The point is, every once in a while, Steph Curry was like, we're not losing tonight. I'm Steph Curry. I'm just going to have an awesome game. And that's really not what I'm seeing from him in the same way this year. And I wonder if it changes after the All-Star break, or is this just who he is at age 36?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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Yeah, if you're saying what defender makes a guy who's in the paint who realizes he's open run full speed at him like he's running out of a cabin in a horror movie. Steph is still number one in this. The other piece of it is they had to work so hard to get him offense in the first half of the season with this goofy team they had. And he also had to play a lot because their record wasn't that good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And I do wonder with the reset of the break and then the Jimmy piece of it and the symmetry of the offense coming into play a little bit and then Kaminga comes back, maybe it'll be easier for him to rack it up and have. The thing that would make him special were like the 16-point third quarters and just the little scoring barrages. That's what's not happening anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And then you throw in the sloppiness. Like their clutch record this year, I think they're just like 500. And they've blown a bunch of dumb games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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The reason I think it's important, and I'm not doing the ESPN thing where it's like, just A block, just talk Warriors or Lakers, and that's it. That's the rule. I really do think there's something here. I think there's something here with the Butler, Curry, Draymond thing. I kind of like their role, guys.

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And I think if they can hang around, hang around, hang around, there's a competitive kind of intuitive infrastructure that some of these other teams don't have. Like, I don't trust Houston to have it. Memphis, I don't know what to make of anymore. I just assume Ja's not playing now. When I turn Memphis on, it's like surprising to see him. It's one thing after another with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then Minnesota is a mess. I don't try... Especially when Edwards has... Edwards has had two really, really, really awful games in a row. They did win tonight. They beat OKC. But just... I don't, maybe Minnesota would be the only one I see that I could see in the conference finals. I don't think it's gonna be Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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OKC Denver, is there anybody else you have on your radar to maybe make the West finals and do like what Dallas did last year? Dallas catches fire. They have that streak. All of a sudden they're in conversation. Who is that this year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was a podcast you can watch as well on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Starting next week. Video podcasts on Spotify of The Rewatchables. Everyone going forward, you'll be able to watch on the Spotify platform. We're doing another SNL movie next week. I might even spoil it at the end of this podcast. So you can stay tuned for that one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Steph’s Last Ride, Philly’s Swoon and Bill’s ‘SNL 50’ GOAT Lists | with Rob Mahoney

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And yet... And Gobert didn't play tonight either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, we had like a heart-to-heart with 1,100 Nuggets fans. Like, this Murray thing is bad. Like, you guys, this is alarming what's happening. But... The best case scenario was, ah, he just needs to play himself in shape. Yep. And he did. He played himself in shape. And he looked noticeably skinnier within three weeks. His burst came back. The 55-point game he had this week was not an aberration.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, he's been blowing by people and looked like Murray. So now, all of a sudden, those Jokic 48-point games, like, those are out the window. You don't need them anymore. Now he's back to being the... By the end of the third quarter, he's got 22, 12... nine. Porter's also playing better. They just look like the Nuggets again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.

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And now we're going to be working together again because Zach Lowe is coming to The Ringer and he's coming to Spotify and he's going to have his podcast and we are going to launch it Next week, Zach is going to be on my podcast on Tuesday. We're going to catch up on basketball and a whole bunch of things. Get ready. We have a trailer coming. We have the podcast name.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That wasn't the way to go at Rosillo. I would have attacked Blake Ladley in the town.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But will this change when I watch Memphis, especially in the last four minutes?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's just going to the basket. Right. And he's probably if he's not the most electric guy in the league going to the basket with the game on the line, he's in the top three. And that's what you're doing over and over again. I would say this with with other guys, too, in a playoff series. I kind of feel like I know what Memphis is doing in the last three minutes. And guess what?

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They're going to give Joe the ball. He's going to go to the basket. And over the course of four rounds, either I'm stopping it or he's getting hurt. And I think that's the point of the career that he's at. And that's why, you know.

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He's, Verno, he's played 301 games in six years.

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We were doing, are the Grizzlies the stealth title contender in the league before the season? Now I'm going to do a celebration if they win one round?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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True. Okay. So now, do I think. I have a question for Rosillo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Russillo, is job better in any way from three years ago? No, it's way worse. From what you've seen. You think it's worse?

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I think he might even, I don't even know if Zach knows this, but there might be a TikTok. So lots of good stuff coming. But obviously Zach's one of the best people I've ever worked with and was really hoping at some point in life we would get to work together again. So it's happening and it's going to be in time for the end of the NBA season.

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Well, there's two questions, right? Can he grow up and mature? We've seen guys do it, especially as they hit their mid-20s. The other problem is the durability thing. I was shocked. I was looking at his basketball reference. I thought there was one season when he played. He hasn't played more than 2,100 minutes in a season ever. I look at something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then you look at like the three point shootings, not better. The free throw attempts are going down from where they were a couple of years ago. I just, all that stuff worries me. The team's getting worse. This coach just got fired. And it seems like, you know, I don't know if this is, I was asking around trying to get, trying to get basically gossip about the situation from people.

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What do you think happened? And the consensus, which may or may not be true, is that the organization and the GM was higher on Ja as the face of a franchise than the coach was. And that became a real issue between the two sides.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do you think Taylor felt like he could succeed with Ja long term?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that is an issue, though. That's part of the Ja thing, that you're building a franchise around a guy who you don't know if he's going to be out there or not. That's a real thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're going to get his awards, which I always loved reading, and then we'll get him for the playoffs and beyond. So, Zach Lowe, welcome aboard. Couldn't be happier about it. Coming up, I'm going to talk to Ryan Rosillo and Chris Vernon at the very top because we've got to find out what's happening in Memphis. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, recording just after 6 p.m.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What the Pistons did this year when they got some of their old guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But, Bruno, they violated my too many guys theory too. How many guys in that roster are like, I could be playing 35 minutes right now? You can't have more than like 11 of those. Like I saw Gigi Jackson got sent to the G League, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I have a question for Ursula. And, Verno, you're not allowed to answer because you would be too positive on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If I have Ja and Bain and Triple J... for the next five years? Is that enough? Is that, could that be my version of a big three or do I need to start thinking where am I going to be two years from now? And do I need to trade Bain or, or, uh, or Ja? Can I build around those three guys and build an actual title team around those three guys?

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Well, here's the thing. To me, this is the crux of the issue.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He was awesome. And then they just gave up layups on the other end. This is the NBA that I, you know, in the 90s, This was the NBA that was kind of so fascinating and so depressing. At the same time, we had all these awesome players and teams just giving up on them or wondering if they should give up on them or I don't want to trade this guy because they might blossom.

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And they went everywhere from Kenny Anderson, Leitner, Derek Coleman. But then there would be the C-Web trade where Washington's like, ah, I don't know. We know the talent's in there, but Fine. We just got to bring a vet. Let's get Mitch Richmond. Then C-Web goes to the Kings and he's awesome. And I think that's the fear when you have one of these guys, you're not winning with them.

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I mean, they're winning, but they're not going to actually like win the title of job right now. You don't want to trade them either because you don't want to trade them. And then two years from now, you look like a complete shithead because he's in the Western finals averaging 32 a game.

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Russillo is here as always on Sunday nights. Chris Vernon joining us from Memphis. Memphis was in the news this week. They fired their coach. It was shocking. I guess it wasn't that shocking if you looked at their record last 25 games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

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Can you walk us through how much he means to Memphis? Because that's the part we're still in. I can get like what? Like how popular is he on a scale of one to ten? What does he mean? Big picture.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But, Verno, before we find out from you what happened, Russillo, give us your 30-second reaction to finding out Memphis had fired their coach with three weeks left in the season when they were a top-five seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I went to the Chicago game a week ago. He was fighting with literally every ref. He was arguing with the players of the other team.

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All right. Now, Verno's inside take. Verno, you're in Memphis. You also host the mismatch for us. But you're in Memphis. You're doing all the pregame shows. You have the radio show. This is your city. Were you surprised?

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Yeah, I think Houston will be underdogs against all three teams if Kawhi is playing. I'll wait to see if Kawhi is playing.

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There must be Cleveland today without Kawhi.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He looked awesome. I saw him in person on Sunday night against OKC. And it just seems like he has his bounce. I don't know how long it's going to last, but he had the same bounce that he had like five, six years ago. And he's so big. Now, they didn't have Jalen Williams in that game.

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But OKC, other than Jalen Williams, doesn't even have somebody, even Dortz, who I think has a chance to be defensive player of the year, as crazy as that sounds. Dortz is like 6'2". He's guarding Kawhi. Kawhi's got a legitimate six inches on him. Can we talk about Houston for a second? They're 14-6 in their last 20. Dortz is not 6'2", by the way. Oh, I think he's 6'2".

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I'm telling you, I was watching him in the game and I was sitting next to Mike Tolan, who I share the seats with, and we were trying to figure out how tall he was as he stood next to other players. We were like, that dude looks 6'2". But Jack guys always look shorter.

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Well, here's the thing with Houston though. 7-2 against the Cavs, Celts, and Clippers. OKC seems to be the only team that has their number. But the Jalen Green, has he sucked you in post-All-Star break, Rosillo? 22-6-5. They're talking about how the assist numbers are up. He's creating for other guys. Are you buying in yet or no?

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The Van Vliet step back with two seconds left for the shot clock?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Hold Minnesota for a second. One other thing happened with Houston. Your guy, Eason, has started to come on for them. To me, I think there's a couple teams, Verno, that I just can't figure out what the ceiling-basement situation is. And it sounds like a cop-out to be like, yeah, I don't know. But Minnesota's like that for me and Houston's like that for me.

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I can actually see with the amount of athletes and the defense that Houston has. I could actually see them just destroying somebody in round one. We're like, oh, my God, the Rockets are here. And I could also see them shooting 22 percent from three during entire series getting blown out. Same thing for Minnesota, where you see him on the right night and you're like, shit, they're fucking loaded.

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And they look like they like playing with each other. And then you catch them another night. It's not there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Those are my two teams where I just I don't know what to think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you have the second guy and then you have the knock yourself out guy. And we haven't talked about this. Somebody is having a, Hey, if he's going to make it, knock yourself out. Uh, somebody is now, if we did the all NBA team for that, Kyle Kuzma has my first team vote right now. Cause teams are playing Milwaukee. They're just like, that's right. Yo Kuz. Go ahead. Feel free. No, take it.

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Because there's like, oh, shit, Reeves is in the corner. Oh, shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, I forgot to guard Luka for a second. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, on Minnesota... There's some good advanced metrics for them, too. Like, their last 25 games, their sixth net, last 15, their fourth net, all the three-point shooting has been really good for them. Edwards has been better the last two months. They got a really good coach, too.

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Yeah, I'm trying not to get sucked in with them, but conversely, the Nuggets, who I think, Rosello, I think we haven't really talked about it, but I think we have equal concern. with our guy Joker. I just feel like their best, when they play the really good teams, it just doesn't seem like they have enough. Like they're 0-7 against Boston, Cleveland, and Minnesota.

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In their last 50, their 20th net and their negative net. And it just feels like there's certain nights where if Jokic isn't awesome, they're going to almost get blown out. You know, I'm really worried about them in the playoffs because I don't want... That's a team, like if you were going to say, what team is going to get swept in round one?

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and everybody would be shocked, that would be one of my candidates. And by the way, I also wouldn't be surprised if they made the Western Finals. That's why the West is so fucking hard to figure out.

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Does anyone have more knock yourself out guys than Denver, though? I mean, Denver has half of their start. Half of their 10 minute rotation is go ahead.

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So last 25 games, there were 11 and 14, 15th net rating, as you mentioned. And I didn't even realize that they hadn't had a good win in that long until you texted us that. And I went back and looked at the schedule and I was like, oh my, my God. I, I guess Priscilla, the thing that with, when you do something like this,

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Yeah. You know, I will say this... If you, Verno, please tell your new coach, the Finnish guy, what's his name? What's Finnish guy's name?

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Coach T.I., listen, if you play the Lakers, and this to me is coaching malpractice if anyone doesn't do this in the playoffs, you got to pressure those fucking guys 94 feet. Luka and LeBron bring the ball up. Neither of them want anybody to bug them until they get to midcourt. Luka gets actually mad. He almost punched Josh Giddey in the game I went to last week.

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LeBron will just pass it immediately. And you just got to like... You got to wear those guys down. It's almost like a football game where you're just like running up the middle, trying to make the defensive line tired.

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Well, but I think you're going to have to like if OKC plays the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. In the playoffs, though, if I'm like like if they play Memphis or Houston or whoever, that's those are the perfect teams to play. Hey, Tyrese and 94 feet with these guys. When you're in the game, you got to do it because I do think you can wear them down. Those guys have a big responsibility and they can't guard anybody.

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Verno, we're going to let you go. Say hi to everybody in Memphis. Say hi to my favorite team tomorrow. I hope they do well against you.

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It was like our fifth game in seven nights, something like that.

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it makes me think that they think they still have a chance to make the Western finals and it wasn't going to happen with the current situation, but if they can change the coaching, maybe they have a chance to make the Western finals. And I think I disagree, but on the other hand, like this was the team everyone wanted to play in the West.

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How dare you? How dare you? Bye, Verna. Thanks for coming on. We're going to take one more break. And now for a special part of the show brought to you by Workday. Are you a forward thinker? Then you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do. Workday, the AI platform that helps propel your organization, your workforce, and your entire industry into the future.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Workday, moving business forever forward. Rosillo, we've watched two weeks of March Madness. Your single favorite non-Cooper flag prospect that you've seen? The one that just puts a hop in your step?

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Clayton jumped out to me as well, and I looked at our draft guide to see if he was in the top 14, and he wasn't. And I don't think he's even a first-round pick right now, right? But... I don't know. I thought the same thing you did. He seemed completely unafraid.

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Guys have fooled us of March Madness though, where they look awesome and they make big shots and we go, but that guy, those were some big ass shots because it wasn't just that last one you mentioned.

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Well, thanks again to Workday for sponsoring this segment. Learn more at Workday.com. So we're going to do a gimmick called the NBA Forgotten. Teams that just don't get talked about enough on shows like this. And we did a couple of them, actually. We did Minnesota. We did the Rockets. Talked some Clippers. There is this Detroit, Indiana, Milwaukee trifecta.

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You know, like if you were in the 6-7-8 range, you were like, man, it would be really cool if we could play Memphis. So I think that's why you make the change. But I don't think they have enough talent to be dangerous in the West. Do you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it looks like where we're landing now, Detroit... um, is not going to play the Knicks, which is a huge bummer. And we're, because I was really excited for that series. We, before we started recording today, Detroit gets into another altercation in Minnesota that we probably could have predicted. I wish there was a way to bet on it.

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Does Stewart lead the league in standover guy moments this year? Is he our number one standover guy guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But if I compared him to run our test, maybe with you on this podcast a week ago, I said there was run our testy vibes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Prestige TV podcast, we broke down episode seven, the second to last episode of White Lotus, season three, me, Mallory, Joanna. You could check that out on Spotify on video. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed our Prestige TV podcast about White Lotus Episode 7, go check that out. Rewatchables is coming Monday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you think Beef Stew is just going to randomly come in and throw the quick punch as he's going to break it up?

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That was the Indiana Pacers issue. Yeah. You can't have our test with Steven Jackson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I looked at, it's funny you did the last 50. I did the last 25 before today because they got shellacked in the second half.

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Yeah, I did it this morning. 17-8 in their last 25 before today. They were third net rating, but they were fifth offense, second defense. And I put in all caps as a question to ask you, At what point do we take the Pistons seriously? Because that's a really big sample size.

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I remember like three weeks ago, we talked about, could there be a team like Dallas last year where we just didn't take them seriously, but there were all these signs in the last 30 games.

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Right. So with Detroit, they add Schroeder, who is in the equivalent of Gafford and P.J. Washington, but he did give them a little extra balance and, and a different look and crunch time. And he's somebody who's been in big games and he's another guy who's, and I mean this as a compliment, he's a fucking dick.

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They just have a team full of guys who are like, I don't care if you think I'm a fucking dick. I'm going to keep coming. And I'm going to know you and I'm coming after you. Who knew he had this?

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I'll start with the Pistons. Okay. I think Cade is the best player in a Pistons Pacers series. As good as Halliburton's been the last two months. I just, I think Cade is, I think he's a top 10 to 12 guy. So you got that. Pistons can rebound and defend. They're plus four, plus five rebounding every single game.

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And they have multiple guys that can... I think Schroeder's a huge pest in a Pacers series. And by the way, the reason we're talking Pistons-Pacers is it looks like this is going to be the 4-5. Beasley and Hardaway are making six threes a game, 40%. And they make big threes at the end of games. They run plays for them.

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I mean, one of their plays, they'll be down, you know, 1.40 seconds left, and they'll run a big play to send Beasley coming off some sort of screen, and he'll make it.

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Um, and I like that. I know Kate's missed a couple of games here, but their best guys for the most part play unless they're got suspended for fighting, which is going to happen today. Um, I think they're a real team. I was really excited for them to play the Knicks because I genuinely thought they could beat the Knicks in a series. Pacers is a little more interesting.

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Now, you mentioned that even in the last 25 games, they're top eight in net. Halliburton is the numbers that jumped out to me. Since New Year's, he's 20 and 10, 51%, 44% from three. And that's in 33 games. They're 24 and nine in those games. And eye test wise, it seems like he's back. We were worried about him, but it seems like he's back.

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And you noticed that the other day in the Laker game, when Carlisle went offense defense with him, And it was fucking stupid. And they weren't able to get it back in the last 50 seconds. It was one of the reasons they lost. My thing with Indiana, they shoot themselves in the foot so many times in these games. I feel like they're in every game. It doesn't matter who they're playing.

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They're winning or they should be winning. And yet you watch them in the last couple of minutes. You're like, why are they doing that? Why is that guy out there? Why was that their play coming out of the timeout? I think their fans are just as frustrated as, uh, as I probably am watching them. I think they're, I think the ceiling of that team is really good.

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And it feels like they're their own worst enemy. A lot of the time. That's my Pacers takeaway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You were 18-0 against the worst five teams in the East?

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Well, it almost seems like they just want offense, and they don't even care about having a guy out there who can stop the other guy because they think they can outscore whoever they're playing.

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I think it was more impressive than the Atlanta, that weird Atlanta-Philly series, because Philly just completely fell apart during that series. I mean, Atlanta was down big in some of those games. The Indy That goes back to the point I made earlier. They completely fucked up game one when Jalen hit the shot in the corner and they completely fucked up.

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I think game three and game four, they could have won both of those games. And Carlisle is a really good coach, but he does some end of the game stuff that I just, I don't understand. And the teams do weird stuff.

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They were in three of those four, though, in like a real way. But this goes back to my point. I think Indiana's good. Like, I'm actually, I'm pro-Indiana. I think that if they're in the four seed, if it's a 4-5 and it's Indiana-Detroit and I'm Cleveland, I'm like, fuck. Thank you.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I like watching really good basketball teams. I'm a snob. I like watching good sporting events and good teams. And the quality does seem a little higher. But Duke is like... When you watch them, the ceiling of the guys they're putting out there and how they play together... which is I talked about this with Tate and Kyle the other day.

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Like, it's not just like, oh, they have four, like that 2000, what was that? 2019 Duke team. And it was like Zion and RJ Barrett. And it's like, look at all these lottery prospects, but it didn't feel like a team. this Duke team now feels like an actual basketball team that you would have put together like a GM, like the way they play together.

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I think that's been really interesting to watch because I had just gotten to the point with college basketball. I was like, this all feels fucking random. Everyone's just chucking up threes and some of them will go and some of them won't. But that, but I think the quality has been higher.

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And the other thing is some of the teams feel like they have different identities almost, which is the way college, when we really love college in the eighties and nineties, the teams would have these, different personas like St. John's is like, Oh, the pressing team, Texas tech was like, these guys are just fucking huge. Like they're just like big bully ball team.

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So that, that part's been really fun to watch from afar, knowing fun, knowing nothing. Um, and then you watch, you know, the games today and it's like, Jesus Christ, Houston, it's the athlete team, you know? So that, that part I've enjoyed.

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Yeah. They were just kind of spacing it out for him and chucking it to him. And he was doing this. They didn't want to double their face ups. It was pretty interesting.

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And some of these guys aren't even going to potentially even play in the NBA or some of the threes, like the threes that Clayton Jr. is making. The artistry feels like it's gone up a level versus where we were before. Now, some stuff has changed. When we did Blue Chips for the rewatchables and you watch Bobby Hurley is in that movie and he's just like the old school classic point guard head up.

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I'm just going to set up. Those guys seem to be kind of gone and they've just been replaced by these... all these different shooting point guards that all seem like they, they, every team has like three of them. And then flag is another one who just seems like a complete anomaly for what we're watching. But for the most part, like you watch some of the shop making and it's, it's really high level.

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It's going to be the live show that we did in Boston at House of Blues. Me, Russillo, Chris Ryan, Sean Fantasy. A great time was had by all. I had a ball. It was awesome. It was great to finally do one in Boston. So that is coming and you'll be able to watch that on the Ringer Moves YouTube channel or you can watch it as a video. on Spotify. We have big announcement.

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I just wonder if, Maybe it's the camps. Maybe it's people following like the previous generations and stealing the best things from them as they watch and they're playing when they're eight years old. But it just seems like people are getting better at basketball. Is that crazy? Like there'll be finishes in traffic where guys are bouncing off each other and doing like spin, spin layups.

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Like Jesus Christ, that's like a round two NBA playoff shot. This guy's like the fucking fourth guy in Florida.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I probably didn't. And probably not the Illinois guy either, the pick and roll guy with the long last name. I didn't spend enough time with him either. But that's why we have YouTube when I'm jumping in late on the draft, falling in love with different people.

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Who is going to be a more reliable superstar?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Who do you like more as a prospect coming into the draft?

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We both really love Zion coming out of college. I'm going to say Cooper is more of a sure thing. So he'd be ranked slightly higher just because whatever he's doing is going to translate so well. There's less variance with the ceiling. And Zion was always like had the higher ceiling, but he was always in the air. There was always the injury fear with him. I just think Cooper's a safer bet.

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Verno drove him to the airport. He just wanted to make sure he got on the plane.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, Cooper's the best, he's the best kind of ceiling prospect that's come out of college since Zion, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Davis at Kentucky, Zion, like if you're just going like the last 15 years, I think he's Cooper's in that conversation.

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Well, it's interesting though, because it's different than the typical college guy that comes in because you stick them on these different teams and he can kind of fulfill whatever you were missing. You know, he goes to Charlotte. He just has this immediate impact in all these different ways for them. Right. He goes to Washington. You put him next to SAR. Same thing.

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I just be, I just don't think there's a team that's like, yeah, this is going to be a weird fit for us. Um, and I can't wait, but we'll see. We'll see with, uh, We'll see with some of these other Duke guys too, because the seven foot two guy is fascinating. I'll watch it. I don't know what to make of that guy. Can nipples good too. He's so I'm already on the record.

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He's going to go five spots too late in the draft and it's going to be stupid. I don't know if it'll be, he should have gone 11 and he ends up going 16. He should have gone 14. He ends up going 19.

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Teams will talk themselves out of them. I think.

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Also, do you have a philosophical adjustment to having Cooper Flagg on your team?

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Should I have the best guy in six years of my team? And the answer, you know, I stumbled into it, but it was yes. It's really nice to have them. We were in Boston for the rewatchables. We did Good Will Hunting on Thursday and the weather was terrible the entire time, except for like one hour, one half. You split. You lasted two days. You were out. I left a day early.

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And the first day we were there, the Red Sox were 1-0. people are feeling great. And now they're one in three and everyone's freaking out about Raphael Devers. Baseball is back, baby. We've already run the gamut of emotions in four days. I'm on three Devers panic texts and wondering that, and the Yankees are using the torpedo bats and really running the gamut of emotions already.

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Major League Baseball. I don't understand these torpedo bats at all. How did we still figure out how to innovate with baseball bats? In 2025. How did we not run out of every possibility with these things? I just didn't understand.

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You just can't use aluminum bats seems to be the only, and you can't cork your bat. Those seem to be the two rules. I don't get it. And of course, it's the Yankees that have figured this out. So we're off to a great start.

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And I saw Judge wondering, should he get a torpedo bat? Because it's been working for him the last two years. He doesn't want to change it up. I just think when you have something called a torpedo bat, it's probably going to get banned from the league within a year. Just the name itself. It's like, how long is this going to last? Probably over under three months.

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Um, any last things before we go that you wanted to hit anything weird, any book you're reading, what'd you read in the plane home?

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Did you do the, I saw your dad play at Avalon in 1994. You didn't do any of that?

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I flew back today and I had the games, but the Wi-Fi, we just, it's 2025 and the Wi-Fi just, I don't know why I thought I'd be able to prepare for a lot of this pod and that the plane would come through, but I made it work. But I just feel like the Wi-Fi should be 100% at this point on planes.

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No, it was February 2004. We're going to Houston. So we were in writer's guild. So it was first class. It was in first class. I was sitting in a seat and one of the other writers was like two rows behind. And I was like, I want to sit with him. Asked the person next to him to switch seats with me. And they switched seats.

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And then five minutes later, Jacqueline Smith from Charlie's Angels sat in the seat right next to the one I gave up. And she was still smoking hot at that point. She was probably, I don't know, early 50s. That was better for her. What would you have done? I would have been next to her for three hours. And it was like, I love Charlie's Angels. So I would have, I don't know how that would have gone.

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But the most fun, this is, I don't know if I told you this one.

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I don't know, 22 years ago? I don't know. I think I would have froze. I think I went at a bad lead.

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That's what my scouting report says. Yeah. The scouting report can move in, in different areas. Here's, here's my best airplane story. I've never told this story to you. Flying back, Superbowl, Colts,

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Flying back. And I'm flying back day of the game because I don't want to be there when Peyton Manning wins the Super Bowl. I'm still pissed off about the AFC title game. And I'm sitting next to this lady. And the plane never, it doesn't take off for like an hour. It's like a stuck on the runway situation. So I started talking to the lady. And it was Rick Riley's girlfriend.

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but she didn't know who I was. And she starts telling me about how Rick Riley's gonna leave Sports Illustrated and he thinks he wants to go to ESPN, but he doesn't really like writing his column anymore. But so much money, he's gonna have to. And she's just giving me all this stuff. And I'm like, oh my God. And goes through this whole thing. He's probably gonna do the deal.

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Or he might go back to Sports Illustrated, but he doesn't really like writing it anymore. And I'm like, oh my God. So then she's like, what do you do? And I'm like, oh, ironically, I work for ESPN. I write a column for them. And so she's like, oh, that's so weird. But how long have you had the column? Blah, blah, blah. So then she's texting with them.

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And she looks at me and goes, he's telling me not to tell you anything. But I feel like so now you can't tell anyone. But now I feel like it's almost 20 years later. I could probably tell that story because I felt bad because she was nice.

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You're sitting next to Simmons. You don't say anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think he was talking himself into it, which was really instructive to me because I was, you know, I'm still like trying to climb the ladder and I'm like, this is great. This guy doesn't sound like he's that hungry anymore. I can beat this guy because I'm a competitive psycho.

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Well, he took a shot at me. We made up. I think he came on the pod at one point, but yeah, he took a shot about how long my columns were. And I was like, what do I do? I'm just over here, motherfucker. Did you have to go to therapy for that? No, it made me mad. I was like you. I went into like fucking gym in the town mode. Like, whose car are we taking?

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They gave him a talk show, a whole bunch of stuff. He was writing the column for the magazine. It was an instructive lesson to me. I came home and I told my wife, if you're ever sitting on a plane next to anybody, don't start talking about my career or my contract, my contract negotiations with them.

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So you were telling us what was going to happen. You were texting me in-house. You were telling us revenge season.

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It was a strategic move by him where he felt like he was crippling Sports Illustrated by doing that. And it was he wasn't wrong.

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I don't know if that was true, but it was the right narrative. I think Sports Illustrated, I'm figuring out the web destroyed Sports Illustrated.

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Yeah. Well, that was a fun one. By the way, Rick Riley's girlfriend, wife, whoever she was, she was very nice. I don't want to get in trouble now if they're still together. It was also 20 years ago. Who cares? All right. That's it, Rosillo. So you got two podcasts this week. Next week, we have something fun for the Sunday episode. And then we're in the homestretch here. Good to see you.

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Thank you. See you next week. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Ryan Rosillo. Thanks to Chris Vernon for joining us. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle. As always, don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can always watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. New rewatchables coming tomorrow.

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Good Will Hunting, Prestige TV podcast, White Lotus episode seven is up. And last but not least, the Zach Lowe Show is coming. So get ready to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Very excited about that. We will see him on this podcast on Tuesday.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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So once upon a time at Grantland, I used to work with a guy named Zach Lowe. We hired him from Sports Illustrated and he became an awesome, awesome basketball writer and podcast for us over the next few years. I left Grantland. We have not worked together for 10 years.

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Enough foreplay. This to me is a whole Joss situation. And Joss doesn't play enough and Joss is not reliable enough. And I wrote down, can you actually compete for a title if you can't count on your best guy emotionally or physically? Now think about like Embiid is in that class, right? Kawhi and the Clippers. Not Kawhi before the Clippers, but Kawhi during the Clippers.

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Is he going to be out there? What am I getting? Is he going to be out there in April? I have no idea. C-Web on the Kings after the 0-1 playoffs. Is he playing? Is he not playing? I don't know. Vince Carter, Allen Iverson, Kyrie before Dallas, Zion right now. If you don't have that reliability with your best guy, can you even have a chance to win a title? And I think the answer is no. He's 25 now.

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He made all NBA second team three years ago. And this year he's missed 30 games already. And it's not even like a Brunson thing where he got hurt. And he's out for six weeks. He'll miss eight games. He'll miss six games. He'll miss three games. When you go to work, do you even know if Ja's playing? That's the season he's had.

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Super. But is that going to be his career? I guess is my question, because maybe he just seems like a nagging injury guy to me.

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It's the Bill Simmons podcast. We're going live on a Sunday night with Cousin Sal. Week 17 was a little crazy, not too crazy. Week 18 is going to be crazy and it's all coming up next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets.

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I can't believe we had to sweat out that LA-LA parlay like that. It ended up coming down to Kyler Murray whipping... a 130-mile-an-hour pass off his tight end's head that bounced up in the air for an interception. But the Rams did nothing offensively to win that game. And I would want to play them over anyone except the AFC 7 seed, I think.

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I tweeted about this from the Rewatchables account because it's on Netflix, actually, for the next couple days. But 20-year anniversary of this movie in 2024. And it's in the running for one of the best football movies ever. Some people think it might be first. We're going to talk about that and a lot more on the podcast that's going up Monday night.

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So Rudy just texted us that. And you know what? I did a shitload of research for this podcast. I really thought I was prepared. Somehow I missed this. Green Bay is not guaranteed to be the sixth seed. It could actually be Washington because Washington wins a tiebreaker. So if both of them win, Washington is going to be the sixth seed. Oh, Washington gets it if they win.

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Well, if you're Washington, I mean, first of all, they're going to have a lot of fans at that Rams game if it's Washington at the Rams. But if you're Green Bay, that's a disaster. You go from, you know... So people didn't know how much that Minnesota game meant today. It actually meant a shitload because it's different than potentially playing the Rams or playing Philly, who's the two seed.

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the Vikings, let's talk about that Vikings Packers game. Good one. A lot of people love the Packers. Yeah. It turned into an everybody believes in us, nobody believes in us situation, which I didn't fully know on Thursday, but by the time we got to Sunday, I was betting on the Vikings. And that line was moving. That line was the most erratic line of the year.

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It was minus one and a half, plus one and a half, even, back to minus one and a half. By game time, it was even, which is, I think, What, three times this year we've had an even line at game time? Yeah.

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Yeah, he's coach of the year. He has to be. It's crazy that Harbaugh completely rejuvenated the Chargers, made chicken... Hold on, I'm going to get this right. Made chicken salad out of chicken shit. Good. Yeah, I did it. I nailed it. Um, and he's not going to win coach of the year. You think like where that team was last year, all the stuff he did for them, they had some injuries too.

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It wasn't like, it was like the easiest season. Um, and he has no chance. Yeah.

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You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast. on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Coming up, Cousin Sal and I live Sunday night. We're doing it. Let's bring in Pearl Jam. We just watched Washington-Atlanta, and you lost your wise wager, which was you were 13-2 for the season.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

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Well, so KOC, I think he gets it. The Packers, um, You know their five losses? Two against the Lions, two against the Vikings, one against the Eagles. And this was everybody's Super Bowl sleeper. It'd be nice if they beat one of the top three teams in their division or conference once. I'm also not positive. I really like Jordan Love, and I think he's good in spurts.

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And I've watched the game that they played today, I feel like six times in the last year and a half, where they kind of suck. He misses a couple throws. They're a little erratic. All of a sudden, they're behind. And then they do this furious rally with like a quarter left or half a quarter left.

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And then the score, they played this exact Minnesota game happened already in the first month of the season where they were way behind, rallied back, and the final score they lost by two. This was not a two-point loss. Minnesota dominated the game. Field goal kicker missed two field goals. I just felt like this was a double figures win that it will say they won by two.

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But I thought it might be a double tight end game for them. Oh, yeah. Like, just being more physical. They were... Like, Brady was really bullish on them riding Jacobs, and he's comparing McCory Dillon and all these different running backs. But the Vikes played great, and darn, they've been underestimated all year. I really regret on Thursday not going all in on them because...

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I think they're really good. I think they could absolutely beat Detroit. I could absolutely see them in the Super Bowl. Watching them today, I was thinking... Because I felt that same way watching that Cincinnati game. And I had Denver plus 7.5 in that one. So I actually ended up hitting it. But...

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Since he's so scary when they have the ball and they just need eight yards, or it's third and eight, it's third and six, it's second and ten, and they have those two receivers, and it just feels like any time Borough wants, he can hit somebody for eight yards on and out, or he can hit them down the sidelines or across or whatever. I think Minnesota has the same thing.

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Those two receivers, when they really, really need to complete a pass, they can find one of those guys, it seems like.

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Well, we'll see. You should have said today they should have been at least like a one and a half or two point favorite. And the market said otherwise. I just think people, Sam Darnold, three years in the Jets, two in Carolina. He was on the Niners last year. And I just think people are slow to come around on this, but he's been making, he's been doing this all year really consistently.

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And I said last week to you, I felt like, um, When I really needed to make a play and that come from behind game last week, I was like, I think he's going to do it. Like, I believe... I believe he's going to make the play. I felt the same way in this game today. I just felt like he was going to come through.

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1460.817

He has one shaky throw a game, but I think you could say that about literally any quarterback in the league.

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Yeah. Raheem, not Raheem Morris guy who took two timeouts into the overtime. Our friend Raheem is on the ringer Sunday pregame. He had a good tweet about this one score win loss record, which has become a really fun way when we talk about teams after the fact or during the season, is this real? Is this not real? Yeah.

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And the theory is like if you're 8-1, 9-1, 10-1 in one score games, there's something fluky about that. We've talked about this a lot for years. And there was that Cousins Vikings year a couple years ago when they just had crazy luck in one score games, but we knew they weren't good. I don't feel that way at all about this Vikings team. I think they're legitimately good.

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And I actually think they shouldn't have been in as many one score games as they were because they just had these dumb games that all of a sudden in the last five minutes, the other team scored, this was whatever. So I, to me, they're not like, to me, they're a legitimate, uh, awesome contender. And I, I think you could make the case.

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I, I think I would bet against them in any, against any NFC team.

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No, I screwed up. I think I would bet on them against any NFC team. I like them the most.

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Yeah, and the second down, it was like second and nine. Jefferson was cutting across and Darnold just whipped it. And it was a great throw, but it was probably four receivers in the league can get that extra split second of a step and also make the catch in traffic. And then the game ender, they ran the classic fake. Everybody runs to the left.

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Oh, the quarterback circles around to the right, lofts over the screen pass. It's one of the best plays. I almost turned into Collinsworth when I watched that.

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I can't believe the JJ McCarthy thing is even a question. There's no way that Darnold's their quarterback. Now this is, this is done. It's a wrap. It's like, this is Brady blood. So multiplied by 17, Brady blood. So even heading into the playoffs was still an argument.

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There's no argument anymore, but they keep McCarthy for a year and just, you know, keep them as a backup and then figure out what to do. But, um, considering the quarterback class is pretty shaky, um, Beyond the top two, I feel like they could get like a mid-first round pick for him or a late first rounder or high second rounder. Somewhere in like the 15 to 35 range, right, for him?

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You had Washington 24-and-a-half under, which seemed like when Atlanta was about to score in the last minute, you were going to win it. And then Raheem Morris was like, how many timeouts can I take into overtime? Turned out he had the wrong answer and Atlanta blows it. Rollercoaster ride of the game. Washington makes the playoffs. Atlanta is now in a lot of trouble.

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With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. All right, switching gears. There's some big questions left. Can the Bengals make the playoffs is one of them, which I think everybody wants just as football fans because Borough's been so great this year. The scenario is this.

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They have to beat Pittsburgh. Denver has to lose to Carson Wentz and the Chiefs. And the Dolphins have to lose to that hot garbage Jets team, who was just a complete train wreck of an embarrassment until Tyrod Taylor came in in the fourth quarter. And now, granted, it's garbage time. Buffalo, they won the game. It's a wrap.

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Tyrod Taylor, all of a sudden, it was a little like the Panics Cousins thing. He can move around. He was making plays. I think they'd be crazy not to start him next week unless they, if they want to protect their pick, which is probably like top seven, top eight at this point, you play Rogers because he's just, he's, he's a sunk cost at this point.

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But if they play Tyrod Taylor, I could see them beating Miami. I mean, Miami was, you know, it doesn't seem like two is going to play next week. They, Cleveland's so bad and Thompson Robinson is so bad. Miami, like they, they had no choice but to win that game, but the Jets could beat them. I'm trying to look at it. So then it comes down to Carson Wentz.

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This is one of my favorite podcasts to do that heading into week 18. We have our playoff scenarios trying to guess the lines, but Atlanta is going to be kicking themselves all week.

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Rodgers was just horrible. Yeah. I did a 13-pointer, which I think I lost three legs of. It was my one losing bet today other than this last one at the end. Rodgers was so bad, and it was so hopeless from the moment. It was like, I don't know, 12-0, 19-0. You just knew it was over. Doesn't seem like the teammates like him that much.

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Wilson, there's stuff about if Rodgers is back next year, please trade me. That stuff's starting to float around. And it'd be really funny if Taylor came in and the Jets were Austin next week.

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You ruined Peter Schrager's season. I didn't do it. Our guy Schrags. There was a tweet that had over 3 million views at the time of this taping by somebody on Twitter named Steakfriend. He said, Jets getting Aaron Rodgers is like finally banging your high school crush when she's 40 and has four kids. That's great. It's over 3 million views at this point.

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Lost in how bad Rodgers has been is how bad Jeff Ulbricht's been as the Jets interim coach.

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Today they had 16 penalties for 120 yards. That makes the Patriots look like well-behaved by contract. He's horrible. One thing we've learned this year is that the interim coach isn't necessarily this magic elixir because the Bears are way worse, right? Yeah. The Jets, I think if they had had Salah, at least with Salah, their defense was better. We had the Clogger.

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Hard to say with the Clogger. Yeah. But yeah, rough Jets season. I feel bad for the Jets fans.

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If you're KC, do you lose intentionally to Denver is the question somebody texted me today that I thought was intriguing. I don't think teams lose intentionally in the NFL. I guess you could play like your third string QB and not give a shit. But they're just much better off if Denver is the seventh seed than Cincinnati, I think.

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Oh, so you're saying so beat Denver to try to get Cincinnati into the seventh seed.

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Their defense is pretty awful. It was interesting because that game feels like it happened 100 years ago and it was yesterday. But I don't think Sean Payton covered himself in glory yesterday with some of the calls. Right. Some of the clock management. Just in general. And it's something I've noticed over and over again with him where people seem to think he's this...

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You know, like he's just kind of what we were talking about with Kevin O'Connell earlier. But instead, it just feels like, I don't know. Were you happy with how he coached yesterday?

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Tie was as good as a win, so it didn't make sense to go for the win because in overtime, a tie would have...

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They did twice. They had two series in overtime. And they were just, they had that second and nine, or it was like second and seven. They ran the wide receiver screen. The guy got tackled for two in the first series. Bo Nix tried to throw it deep. for some reason didn't get it. It was weird. I just felt like they could have run the ball on Cincy all day. They ran the ball for five yards a carry.

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MVP race. At least when I checked it this couple hours ago, Allen was minus 300. Lamar was plus 250. And Burrow and Barkley were 50 to 1. And the thinking was if Burrow somehow got... the seventh seed for the Bengals, he has to be in the MVP consideration. I just don't agree. Burrow's 31 now. Yeah. Oh, he's 31? He went back to 30. You can't lose eight times in a season to be the MVP.

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It's tough. There's some stat stuff that's a little more favorable for Lamar. I test was a little more favorable for Josh. Um, I would say the, the infrastructure of the roster is you'd probably want Baltimore is a little bit more Buffalo had a lot more uncertainty heading into the season. Um,

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I mean, right now... And I don't know if there's a 100% right answer. I like when people get so upset about it. It's like we've had some NBA MVP things like this too. Right now, I think it could really come down to something as stupid as Baltimore's five losses and Buffalo's three. Because it's really close. And it's just like Buffalo's had a better, they've had a better team.

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I've been a little more impressed with their season. I think both guys are equally important. He doesn't have anything like Derrick Henry. He doesn't have the coaching infrastructure that the Ravens had. Even though McDermott is a top seven or eight coach, the Ravens have been doing this forever. I would just have slight edge to Josh. So Rudy's asking, does the head-to-head matter?

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So Baltimore beat them 35-10 in week four. So that's a case for LeBron. I don't know. I don't know the answer. So Rudy, shut up. We've been doing this for like 37 years.

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Another thing off this off Josh Allen. I won our Keeper Fantasy League today. Yeah, congratulations. I saw that.

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You know, it was an emotional time for me and my fans because we had Joe Burrow. We've had this league four years. I had Joe Burrow year one. We had this rule where you could keep him for a maximum of four years. So he's been with my team the whole time.

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And then he really came through. In the last game, and it meant a lot to me and my fans to watch him do that for my fake fantasy team and his fake teammates. 41.1 points. The question, though, about fantasy, is it possible to win a league if you didn't have Alan Lamar, Burrow, or Baker this year? It kind of feels like you had to have one of those four guys. Who did Tony have?

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247.96

A weird win for sure. Well, our favorite Washington fan is Chang because we're on a text with him. And Chang gets so mad during these games that I told him I would do a Patreon subscription for Chang's text during every Washington game. He was so mad. It was a lot of, fuck this team. I hope the guy makes the field goal. We're losers. He's out of control.

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Yeah, yeah. Because it was unusual because normally we always talk about our quarterbacks don't matter that much in fantasy. And then this year, yeah, who did Tony have in our knockout league?

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I would love to know percentage of leagues won by those four quarterbacks has to be like 80%.

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2522.803

Burrow? I need Burrow. I got him back. I can see it. Joe, four more years, Joe. I asked Craig Horlbeck from the Ringer Fantasy Show about who were the guys you had to have this year that seemed to be around the most titles. And he said the guys that tripled your odds of making the finals were J.J., Jefferson, Chase... I'm on Ross St.

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2548.269

Brown, Saquon, Gibbs, Lamar, James Conner, and Brock Bowers, who was wasted on my shitty team in our other league. Well, just like whatever you paid for them or wherever you drafted them, whatever the return was, was way higher than what you got. But Brock Bowers was a good example. If you had him, he's going to be the number one tight end next year.

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2581.553

That's craziness. Maybe they don't need a QB. Yeah. Oh, that's it. That's a good pivot. The Giants. So we have the Raiders who win two games in a row and completely knock themselves out of a possible Sanders or Cam Ward. I got to say, I didn't like Cam Ward leaving the bowl game at halftime.

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I didn't like it. I just don't think Drake May would have done that in North Carolina. I think he would have stayed. I think he would have played both halves. I think. All right. So the Giants.

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2614.987

Yeah. We had the Drew Locke game today. You could feel it immediately. The Colts were in a coma. I don't know what happened to them. This murdered, I think, 80% of the teases and parlays that people made today because they'd already made all their bets that they'd already won. It's like, what do I do on Sunday? All right, I'll throw the Colts in something and the Giants in my way.

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So now the Giants are four. Pats are one. Tennessee's two. Cleveland's three. And most important, the Pats are one. I was going nuts. I was going nuts. Why? I was going nuts. What are you going to do with it? We're going to trade down. We're going to get a fucking haul. I want to make that Carolina bears trade. Let's do that.

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2655.264

Let's get like, move back seven spots, get somebody else's first, get a player, get a second. Like let's, let's fucking cash that thing in. I'm so excited.

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2712.11

Counter, this Giants season was so depressing that it was kind of hilarious that it was like, all right, we're the number one pick, just two more games. And then all of a sudden they have a fun three hours and completely ruin it. But you're right.

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2728.137

This is the difference between football and basketball is you can't really tank when in a sport with like non-guaranteed contracts where they change half the roster every year.

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2757.596

If the Pats beat the Bills next week, I'm going to lose my mind. I just want you to know right now. First of all, Gonzalez has a concussion, so don't play him. He's the best defensive player. Put him on the side. I would not play Drake May. Sit him down for week 18. Play Joe Milton, the third string guy. They have to lose this Buffalo game. And if you're Buffalo, I would want the Pats to beat us.

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So the timeout, so they get basically to midfield. There's 40 seconds left or 35 seconds left, whatever it was. They had two timeouts left. And it was interesting because Brady, who I thought was good today during the Vikings-Green Bay game, he was talking about the exact timeout scenario at the end of the first half. Yeah.

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2782.506

I want that. They're in our division. I wouldn't want the Pats to have the number one pick and trade back and get Mike Vrabel as the coach. This was a huge week for Pats Manzo because there's real momentum now for like, hey, maybe we need an actual coach in a GM. Maybe he's getting worse.

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2798.119

Getting worse in every part of football over the course of four months. Maybe that was a bad sign. Maybe that we fucked up the draft and free agency and did basically everything wrong. Maybe all that was a bad sign. Now we hit the ladder with this Drake May guy.

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I feel dirty, but I'm going to do it anyway. Speaking of dirty, the Colts, four straight years of absolutely horrible, indefensible... End of the year losses or choke jobs or like even last year where they had a chance to make the playoffs and they blow it on the fourth down. They had that 2021. They lost to Jacksonville when Jim Irsay's like, get Carson Wentz off the team.

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I don't ever want to see him again. So it's four straight years of that. I think Shane Steichen's a secret might get fired after the year guy. Interesting. I have no inside info. I just think that team's like pretty ratcheted. The whole year. I don't think they're well coached. I think they've underachieved. We always have that one surprise firing after week 18. He would be my leading suspect.

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I don't think so. He's only in year two, right? He was a first-year coach last year.

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2891.063

It's absolutely ludicrous that Mike Vrabel wouldn't be getting hounded by like five teams. Right. Mike Vrabel, I think in 21, he went 12-5 with... this banged up Tennessee team, Ryan Tannehill, who I don't think ever started a full season again as a quarterback, AJ Brown, who got traded after the year. I just always felt like that team was supremely extraordinarily well coached.

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2919.497

They always overachieved. I never really understood how they were doing it. And I don't understand if you're the Jets, the Bears. People are like, the Bears need an offensive coach. The Bears need a coach. It doesn't have to be an offensive coach. Just somebody that will give them some sort of culture, which is what the Pats are. He's number one.

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2944.226

My dream would be he was in the Patriots Hall of Fame. And you think like you got Drake May, you have all this calf space and you have the number one pick. Like that seems like the best job. I don't know. You go to the Bears and their ownership's a complete mess.

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2959.583

You're doing everything wrong and you've built this team that's, you know, this run and gun team to play in Chicago in 10 degree weather. I don't know. I wouldn't want that job. The Jets' job's mildly intriguing. They do have a lot of talent. I just said a Woody Johnson thing. I'm not sure I'd want to work for him.

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296.917

And he was saying how when he liked to do it, if he had two timeouts left with under two minutes left, he always thought of it as take one timeout in that one minute to two minute mark, take the second one somewhere between 30 and a minute, and then save that third one for the kicker.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

2988.089

Yeah, why do you want to be in Detroit, Minnesota, Green Bay and battle those teams six times a year? It's too long.

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3010.28

So Matt, a couple other short things I had for you. Mac Jones has as many wins this year as Trevor Lawrence. Just pointing that out. I am 25-5. You did a great job. Season future over-unders, thanks to the Atlanta loss today. I need a Houston win and an Arizona win next week, and I would go 27-5.

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3034.585

Which we always, we have all these media accounts where everybody shits on anyone with a podcast or a calm or a feature or whatever. And it's like this cottage industry. There's no like benevolent version of it where it's like, Hey, this person did a really good job. Hey, cousin Sal is 13 and two on why is this wagers? Good luck to him this week.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

3051.882

We need like happy version of, of those terrible media accounts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

3058.369

25 and five overrunners. Put that on some fucking tweet somewhere.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

3071.022

I had two locks. I had Carolina under, New England under, three, and Green Bay over.

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3093.626

When we get the Lions, let's talk about the hedge for that. You got it. Dorian Thompson Robinson threw a pick today, no touchdown. Career, one touchdown, 10 picks. I was like, I wonder who else has done that. I wonder what other players in NBA and NFL history have one touchdown or less and 10 interceptions or more. So you have that stat head on the pro football reference. So I went up.

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3120.016

How many other people do you think have done that? History.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

3128.371

Nobody in the last 40 years. We had Stan Heath, one touchdown, 14 interceptions. Len Barnum, 0 for 10. Randy Hedberg in 1977, 0 for 10. It's like an accounting firm. Who are these people? Wayne Clark, zero touchdowns, 14 picks in the early part of the 70s. Nice. And then Rusty Lish. One touchdown, 11 picks. So he's done something nobody's done in 40 years.

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314.265

And I was thinking about that as I was watching Atlanta just completely mangle the same situation and just basically take two timeouts in the 12 seconds left in the game. They didn't do that at all. I think if they called timeout, I think they would have kicked a field goal and scored.

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3196.345

Yeah. They, now that's a team that is tanking. They want to get a top three pick. They have a chance to get one or two. If one of those teams of Tennessee or the Pats. So they're like, we're not playing Jameis again. Jameis is too unreliable. He might actually win this game. He might actually beat Miami. We can't play him. Hmm.

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3226.249

Last thing before Gus Lyons, Greg Gumbel passed away and they were talking about him in all the games the last couple of days. I was really bummed out. I feel like, you know, especially people who grew up with the 80s ESPN and he was one of the five or six people, right? It was him, it was Gail Gardner, it was Chris Berman, it was Tom Lee. We had the same six people for an entire decade.

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3249.464

And then he went on, he kind of graduated, did all this stuff. He became a studio host. He original WFAN guy too in New York. Right. Going way back. Um, and then has a really important, uh, he did the tuck roll game, AKA the snow game for Pats fans. He announced that one, but, um, beloved guy by all accounts and feels like he's been in our lives ever since we like sports. I was bummed.

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3298.551

Passed through a lot of great sports and sports moments. I was thinking about that whole ESPN crew in the 80s. that was like our lifeline to all this highlights and information back then. Right.

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3309.918

And you had these people and, and it was like the same way, like the local news anchors mean the most in your dad's house in the seventies, we had these six, seven, eight people that were just the people we found out what happened. And you really felt like you had relationships with all of them. You know, Berman was like the funny one. Tom Lee was the serious one. Bob, Bob Lee.

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3334.492

He was like the professor and then Charlie Steiner showed up. And it's just like, I don't know, Gumball was in those. And when he graduated out of that, it was like, whoa, somebody hired one of the ESPN guys. It felt like we all kind of made it. Anyway, this episode is brought to you by Uber Eats.

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3469.088

Yeah, I didn't do it that way, though. I'm just going to follow this schedule I had. Because the biggest game... the NFC one seed on the line. That's going to be Sunday night, right? That's Sunday night.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

348.146

For some reason, I was thinking about you during this whole fourth quarter because you've been so hot and you've had some luck with these wise wagers. I've been hot on million-dollar picks. We're doing great. And this had gotten to the point where I was like, Atlanta's going to somehow win this game 27-24. And we're going to be like, how did Sal do it again? How did he pull this out?

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3533.242

Lions minus one and a half against Minnesota for the one seed. I think this is a dead even game. You could even talk me into Minnesota being favorite in this, but I don't think it'll start that way. So I'm going Lions minus one and a half.

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3574.656

Detroit does not need to beat San Francisco tomorrow. Right. The game somehow doesn't matter, even though week 18 matters the most, which is just weird.

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3594.972

100% does not matter. Dan Campbell's doing the whole, we're playing anyone anyway. I think that would be crazy to do that. Sure. Week six, Detroit won 31-29. Somehow we had three two-point games that the Vikings were involved with against the Lions and Green Bay. Which is just weird.

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3651.358

So Tampa wins. They get it. Tampa loses. Atlanta wins. Atlanta gets it because they beat Tampa Bay twice. Tampa is home for the Saints, who stink. And Tampa's offense is really good. And as we discussed earlier, Baker Mayfield, fantasy MVP. At least one of them. I have the Bucs minus 10.5.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

3685.746

Can you imagine if I told you in mid-August, week 18, the Bucs are going to be favored by 13.5 against the Saints? What would you have thought happened?

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369.901

And Atlanta's driving down and see what's going to happen. Then the other way, Washington had the ball. Um, and they're driving down, they're driving down and it felt like they were setting up for the, where they're going to go for it to win the game on fourth and one and not get it. And then Atlanta would either play for the tie or do whatever.

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3702.808

And had the clogger as their coach. Yeah. God, they're so bad. This would have been so much more fun if Atlanta won today because we would have had all kinds of scenarios. Washington had to win. There was all different tiebreaker shit. We won our NFC South bet, by the way, so kudos to us. Oh, good, with the under. Nice. Yeah, because they can only have two more. Two more, yeah.

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3723.663

The highest, it could get to 28, so we made it by two.

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3735.271

A week ago? Carolina started upsetting people and it was like, holy shit. If Carolina won today and Atlanta... I guess Carolina was playing at NFC South. Yeah, they're still... But if Atlanta had won... Yeah, it got a little closer than I wanted. Falcons against the Panthers. I have Falcons. This is in Atlanta. I have Falcons by seven and a half against the Panthers.

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3807.361

NFC West on the line, sort of. The Rams are minus two and a half against the Seahawks. Oh no, that was my guess. I screwed that up. The game is in LA and I have the Rams minus two and a half over the Seahawks. I should have let you guess first.

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3846.118

They need... Oh, no, they're out. You're right. Because they needed Atlanta to beat Washington. Yeah, Washington. I think that was the last one. Oh, man. I'm keeping that.

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3859.249

Go. See, I did all the work for Washington winning. And then when Atlanta came back, I changed all the work and then Raheem screwed everything up. I was so excited to go through all the things that needed to happen in week 18 for Seattle. It's like two things. Yeah. It was actually pretty conceivable. They needed Arizona to beat San Francisco, Denver to beat KC, Atlanta to beat Carolina.

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3880.884

All three of those things could happen. Miami to beat the Jets. Still conceivable. Chicago to beat Green Bay. Not playing for anything. Not inconceivable. Chargers-Vegas. Tampa beats New Orleans.

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3893.493

No, the weird one was the Pats would have had to beat Buffalo. That's where the wheels kind of got. That's going to happen. Get ready. All right. Playoff spot on the line. Three teams. One spot.

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39.147

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I kind of like the Chiefs in that game. Yeah. I like the Chiefs. I don't know if I mind the Chiefs' money line either. I could see them being like, fuck it. We're not playing for two weeks after this. We'll play Carson Wentz. Let's run all our stuff. I don't know. Here's what I know.

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3981.721

Dolphins are home for the Jets. I'm sorry. Jets are home for the Dolphins. But Dolphins need a win.

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4000.787

I don't see how this can be less than Dolphins by four and a half.

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4012.145

Who in God's name would bet the Jets? Well, now, if they had Tyrod Taylor, I might bet them. They have a chance. That's it. Because it might be a whole spite game. Snoop against Taylor?

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4034.258

Cincy needs a win, plus Denver-Miami losses. Pittsburgh gets the three seed with a win and a Baltimore loss. Pittsburgh could drop to six if they lose and the Chargers win. I did Steelers minus one and a half.

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4060.712

Honestly, that's stupid. I'm going to bet the Steelers.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

4065.097

I'm 100% betting the Steelers. Dude, the Bengals aren't good. The Bengals are 8-8.

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4082.323

I said three weeks. I said, what, four weeks ago. I said, I thought the Steelers were playing the best of anyone in the AFC. Pickens immediately got hurt. That bunch of their guys on defense got hurt. And Russell Wilson turned into Denver Russell Wilson.

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4097.098

My words were hanging in the air, and all of a sudden, you go the other way, though, and you could say they just played three really tough teams in 11 days, and maybe they're still pretty good.

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4127.256

Steelers are home dogs and they need the game and playing a team that doesn't have a good defense. And as a pretty shaky coach, let's be honest, I know he made a super bowl.

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4165.391

Yeah, and they've beaten them a few times. They beat them earlier this year. They'll figure it out. Still lose, but... AFC seeding kind of sort of on the line. Chargers at the Raiders. Raiders are red hot. Chargers could get the five seed with a win in a Pittsburgh loss. What a stupid team. I have the Chargers favored by eight.

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418.803

Bigger picture, the favorites were 14-1. Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday. That's why we're not too upset.

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4207.347

I always suck in week 18. My fans were prepared for it. I'd take it easy like the Chiefs. You could do this, Jacoby. Hang in there. Ravens are home against the Browns. They get the three seed with a win. Cleveland clinches a top three pick with a loss. You can kind of guess where this game's going. I'm going Ravens by 13 and a half.

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4237.574

I mean, I can't even put that in a 13-point tease.

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4249.522

NFC succeed on the line, technically. Washington has the edge right now. They're at Dallas, and the Packers are home for the Bears.

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4277.711

I had a small bet on the Cowboys with the over in that game, teased. Cooper Rush was awful. I mean, your team was awful, but Cooper Rush, like, why don't they just don't want to see what Trey Lance does? What's there? They just give it up on him?

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428.453

Well, yeah, there was some very good, uh, some very good money line parlays, all kinds of plays 14 and one near the, at this point of the season for favorites. If you had, if I had said to you heading into this week, somebody is going 14 to one favorites are underdogs. I just would have assumed underdogs, right? This is right around the time of the year when weird shit happens left and right.

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4330.479

These old owners. I mean, how old is Jerry? Like he's in his eighties now, right? He's there. I think. Yep. Like we have Bob craft is 83. That's what, that's part of what, like with the pats, like, I just feel like these guys are old. How many years left do they have? Like, why do they want to mess around? Like he, we have the wrong coach and the wrong GM.

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4350.468

Just like, why do they want to live next year? I know. Other one for the succeed Packers bears. the Bears coming off, I think, probably the worst televised national TV game of the year, the Seahawks-Bears game, just a complete atrocity. Packers can lock down the sixth seed. I'm going to say Packers by 11.5.

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4411.311

All right. So we type. All right. Next category is top three draft pick on the line. The Bills are at the Patriots. The Pats clinched the first pick with a loss. Buffalo has clinched everything already. And yet, I think Buffalo is still going to be favored by five and a half, even with Mitch Trubisky.

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4458.833

We don't have a smart franchise. I don't know what to expect. But one and a half. Well, I mean, you and I thought five and six. We ran a play... I mean, the Chargers game was one of the lowest moments in recent Pats history and brought me back to the mid-70s before things turned around. Brought me back to like...

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448.208

But that's not what happened. So Atlanta, who's somehow kind of still alive, it feels like they went to Pennix, what, three weeks too late? Four weeks too late? Even though he's up and down, he's still way better than Cousins is.

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4480.543

the late 80s it was there was a play though first of all it looked like Drake May got concussed like five minutes in the game and then he came back then Gonzalez got concussed but there was a play when Drake May he turned and it was like Douglas was coming around on a reverse and it seemed like he was pitching to the running back but he was pitching to the wide receiver instead but the wide receiver wasn't there yet

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4512.05

I think Douglas started going in motion too late, and it was supposed to be turned, flipped to the wide receiver. But he was three feet back, and that was awful. I mean, it was an awful game. The crowd was booing. It was really depressing.

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4542.357

I love Drake May. The only thing that makes me worried is when he starts doing things like tiptoeing down the sidelines, spinning into a guy going 30 miles an hour. It's like, please don't get hit anymore, Drake May. Eagles-Giants in Philly. Giants clinch a top four pick with a loss, maybe even a little bit better. Philly, nothing to play for. I'm going to say Eagles by nine.

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4584.854

Texans are at Tennessee. Tennessee clinches the second pick in the draft with a loss.

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4598.141

So they're like two and 14 now? Yeah. Two and 14 against the spread. Beautiful. Great job. I have Texans by three and a half at Tennessee.

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4635.872

What in the hell? Why would Tennessee want to win this game? Right. They don't have a quarterback. Their quarterbacks are Will Levis and Mason Rudolph. There's two quarterbacks in the draft. Why would they want to win the game and move back in the draft?

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4660.315

Two more games. These are, in the category, absolutely irrelevant. Colts home for the Jaguars. I did Colts minus seven and a half.

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4676.201

And then Cardinals at home for the 49ers. I need this one for my over-unders. I need Houston to win with their underdogs, and I need the Cardinals to win, and I could go 27-5 with my NFL over-unders, which delight me to no end. Cardinals, I'm going to guess minus 3.5.

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4705.42

What a great week. You win this every year you win week 18.

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4754.07

I'm really proud of us. I like it. It's a great bet. Yeah, we did. We did it. I did more when I was in Boston on FanDuel. Just making weird FanDuel bets. That was one of them. Had some losers though. On the old fan, I had some flyers on Houston to be the one seed. I had a Green Bay to be the one seed flyer. The teams, so the five over-unders I got wrong.

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4778.92

The two that I got wrong the worst, other than the Jets, was Minnesota was one of them. I had the under six and a half for them. And then we both had Jacksonville over. I think that was like, what, seven and a half, eight?

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

4794.824

And they were awful. And the Jets, those were the three that I was...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

4799.775

the most off on Tampa I didn't hit right yeah you just feel like some of these teams are going to hit a wall I'm stupid I passed like I had the Browns over and the Raiders over all these dumb dumb ass teams that don't even try what did you think of this whole gauntlet we just went through with football because I actually got conditioned to it by today just with all the games we had two Wednesday one Thursday three Saturday yeah

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

480.755

Yeah, they would be at 10 wins already. I think it's fair to say Cousins probably cost them three to four wins by being unable to move. Yeah. What's weird, though, we're in this weird situation where Atlanta, Penix, I think, is the starting quarterback. I don't know if he's ever going to be an all-pro or anything, but he's clearly pretty good.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

4828.416

And then a bunch today. And it was nice because there was only two late games today. I kind of liked it. I did a little power walk. Really? Had the game on my phone. I just had Brady and Burkhart just walking around LA watching on my phone.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

4844.02

Well, because I didn't Miami Cleveland. I was like, I don't care. I'm out.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

4879.844

So I don't know. It led to a funny ringer Sunday pregame show where the Catholic games or games, nobody would have wanted to bet on a million years. You just kind of had to come up with stuff. All right. You want to do parent corner?

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

500.267

You know, he's at least on that, I think, has a chance to be on that Bo Nix level, maybe one notch higher. He's older. But you also can't praise Atlanta for this. Because they spent $100 million on Kirk Cousins and destroyed their salary cap. So if you're talking to GM Terry Fontenot, who Lombardi always used to make fun of, and you're like, Terry, great Penix pick, you almost can't say that.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5037.441

Wow. So how many times for tears for Melissa in 2024? Do we have a final count? Is it on wifereference.com?

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5054.027

More tantrums. Oh, tantrums. Oh, I wouldn't mind a tantrum every now and then. Well, it's, you know, the Zoe and my wife just being in the same house. It's great. Yeah, right. Wow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5082.372

My parent corner. So I had Zoe on the last 40 minutes of my podcast on Thursday and she did her teen culture awards for the last time because she turns 20. Both of our kids turn 20 next year and they're not teenagers anymore. Have you really thought about that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5102.663

I don't know what you are. It's not 20? 20 is that limbo year before you turn 21 where you're just kind of like, ah, I'm not a teenager anymore, but I can't legally drink either. What am I? Oh, man. So anyway, we went to the Clipper game on Friday. We saw the Clippers against the Warriors. You know, she wanted to see Steph Curry. It was great.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5125.073

And then Friday morning, Steph Curry's not playing tonight. The NBA just, it's like, I wonder what's wrong with the league. Well, it's cause shit like this. Cause Steph Curry's in town and then he's not playing. And you know, we don't need to litigate that for the hundredth time, but it was just kind of funny.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5138.042

And she, it's funny with your kids to go through the stages of the stuff that we've all like kind of litigated as sports fans for years and years where she's like, I don't understand. I thought we were seeing Steph Curry. Why isn't he playing? Like, how hurt is he? And it's like, well, they're playing Phoenix tomorrow night. They played on Christmas. Yeah, but still, I don't, but he should play.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5157.736

I love it. You deserve this. All these people are coming to the arena to see Steph Curry and he's not going to be there. What if he got it for a Christmas? I'm like, yeah, this is, Had a conversation for 10 years. This is one of the many reasons why this schedule should be 60 games. So Steph Curry would actually play in all the arenas.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5177.323

So I really love the Clippers Arena. They did a great job. And my daughter had a great time. And the places, they really did it. They figured out how to create this arena where they have good fans. It's loud. You feel like you're on top of the court. The fans feel like they're affecting the game. There's real energy going on. in between everything. It's just cool.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5198.59

And when you go to get like a drink or food or anything, there's no TVs anywhere. Swipe. He wants people in, in the stadium. So anyway, third quarter timeout, uh, and Zoe runs off to get a candy. And the guy behind me taps my shoulder. He's like, Hey, um, Anyone ever tell you you look like Bill Simmons? And he starts laughing. He's like, hey, how are you? He's like, I'm a fan of the pod.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5221.692

It's like, I didn't want to say it. No, it could have been. Oh, that would have been exciting. So he goes, I didn't want to say anything until your wife went. But when your wife went to the bathroom and I was like. That's not my wife. That's my daughter. She's 19. And I was just completely for the rest of the game. First time somebody has thought my daughter was my wife.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

524.602

Because the pick was so illogical when he did it. And I was thinking today, imagine if they had spent that free agent Cousins money on one other defensive player, two defensive players, whatever. And instead, they put all of that. And this is what happens. You end up losing this game in OT because your defense can't do anything. This is what we were saying in April when they took Pennix.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5271.767

Wow. Of course. I was thinking girlfriend would have been even more logical. Wife is like, What is this? Like a child bride? Like when she turned 18?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5289.216

I could see Z looking like she's like 22, 23 to somebody. But just like, I'm old. I don't know. It threw me off. But you're in LA also.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5311.431

Did she laugh? Did she laugh about it? She was horrified. Just flat out, flat out horrified. Anyway, thanks to that guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5324.372

No, he's like, oh, my bad, my bad. He did one of those. Nice guy. But yeah, anyway. That's it for Paracorner. What else do we have to hit?

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

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I'm excited for it. Casual college football fan Bill likes the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

54.388

Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

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My wife Zoe is going to Miami to see the boyfriend. Oh, yeah. On the 5th of January, 6th of January, somewhere in there. This is another thing. Her boyfriend's turning 21.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5417.872

Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Just, we're getting old, Sal. I don't know. I don't know how to stop it. I just, I, you know, so Rudy's one of the producers, like he's, you know, got this tiny kid, her whole life in front of her. She's like barely. And meanwhile, we went through all these stages and it's just sad how fast it goes. Yeah.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5456.814

So you didn't have any wrestling tournaments or anything over the break? No, not yet. No, we're good. We're good till next week. Congrats. All right, that's it for the pod. Thanks to Saruti and Kyle and Gahal. Cuz, good job by you. Good job by you, buddy. Thanks to everybody. We'll be back on Tuesday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

547.554

If you're going to spend all that money on Cousins, use the eighth pick on a defensive player. Or if you know you're going to take Pennix, use the free agent money on a defensive player. And they didn't do either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5501.234

For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

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Sam Darnold, the most emotional Twitter video during the season we've seen all year. Sam Darnold coming back late to the Vikings locker room and it turned into like a sports movie scene. I was waiting for explosions in the sky to play in the background. Playoff picture. And we'll talk about it. There's so much shit to go through.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

625.515

This is terrible. We're on this text thread with our cousin and a whole bunch of people. And anytime a super old celebrity dies, it's always like, what was the cause of death? And we do. Jimmy Carter, my favorite president, by the way. But anytime it's 100, like, what was the cause of death? Anyway, NFC playoff picture. Washington is at least the seventh seed.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

649.598

Possibility they can sneak in a six seed, but Green Bay would have to lose to Chicago. But we're looking at two seed Philly versus seven seed Washington, which I'm not happy about if I'm Washington. Three six is Rams-Green Bay. I'm super happy if I'm Green Bay playing the Rams, the way their offenses look. Four or five would be Tampa-Minnesota, which is an awesome game.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

670.732

Or Atlanta-Minnesota if something funky happens a week 18. AFC... It looks like we're going to have Buffalo versus Denver, unless Denver completely chokes the big kids Carson Wentz, and we'll go into all those scenarios in a second. Baltimore against the Chargers. and then Houston-Pittsburgh. And I didn't tell you I was going to do this.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

69.845

With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

693.551

You're going to be mad, but I already made guesses for the round one schedule, and I'm going to throw this at you.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

709.097

Well, we texted about the Shake East game, which if you haven't seen or listened to our pod before, it's the first game on the Saturday of round one Our knockout league that we're in, the loser used to have to buy pizza for everybody else for the first game. And we would do it at Shakey's in Santa Monica, which we made plenty of jokes about. Is it still open or no?

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

737.11

So anyway, Pittsburgh-Houston is the most, I would say that's like a minus 1200 favorite to be the shakiest game. With the way Houston's look, with Russell Wilson, I don't see how it's not the shakiest game. I'm trying to think who else it would be. All right, you're going to give me all of them? Go ahead. Well, these are my guesses. And you tell me, I'll rip through them.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

757.509

You're right. Go ahead. So Saturday night is going to be Amazon. And I think that's Green Bay Rams. And they keep it in LA. Al Michaels is super happy. It's like a 35-minute drive for him. Amazon in LA. Amazon is in LA. So I was going Green Bay Rams for that. And then Sunday, Denver Buffalo. uh, L the chargers versus Baltimore and then Washington Philly as the Sunday night game.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

786.504

But you could flip that and you can make Washington Philly, the Fox game with Brady and then chargers Ravens Sunday night. And then my last prediction bucks, uh, versus the Vikings in Tampa Bay, Monday night, Monday night football on Monday.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

809.234

I know. That's why I didn't prepare. I didn't tell you to prep. I wanted to throw this at you.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

855.338

We got to look out for Al. So Chargers, to get the five seed, the Chargers would have to beat the Raiders and Pittsburgh would have to lose to Joe Burrow in Cincinnati. Yeah. And that's the path. I wanted to, I was going to do this later, but I'd rather just throw this at you right now.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

872.887

And I know the Ravens aren't going to tank week 18, but if you're the Ravens, just fundamentally looking at this big picture, we're trying to make the Super Bowl. If you're the Ravens, would you rather be the five seed or the three seed? Because if I'm the three seed, I have a home game against almost definitely the Chargers. It's either the Chargers or Pittsburgh home game.

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897.746

And then round two, I'm going to Buffalo if I'm the three seed. I'm going to Buffalo unless Buffalo shockingly loses. If I'm the five seed, I play Houston. And I'll be favored and I should beat Houston. And then unless there's an upset, I'm going to KC for round two, who hasn't played a meaningful game in a month.

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90.086

Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I put up a brand new episode of The Rewatchables every Monday night, including tomorrow night. We are doing Friday Night Lights. The movie.

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917.819

And if your goal is to make the Super Bowl, I'd rather, we always talk about this, I'd rather catch KC in that round two game when they're a little rusty. So I know Baltimore is going to try to win. I know it's better to be at home, but you could argue it's a better path for them to be the five seed.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

968.119

Well, you have for the stewards Bengals game, Bengals trying to keep their playoff hopes alive. Yeah. Steelers trying to either be five or six, but you want to be five. So that game actually becomes meaningful. So that's probably why they, why they, Oh, I guess so. Right. Yes. I would still try.

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Believe in Darnold, Burrow’s Playoff Shadow, Week 18 Madness and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

996.582

Well, who, to me, who is the worst playoff team to you other than the AFC seven seed? Because I think you could make a case it's the Rams. And the Rams are going to be the three seed. But if I'm Green Bay, I'm 100% delighted to play the Rams in round one. The Rams can't score 20 points anymore. And they got, I thought, dominated by the Cardinals on Saturday night.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

0.169

You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.

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1021.959

If you're trying to get Giannis... And you're obviously keeping Thompson. I think that's the one guy we're like, we're never trading him. Sorry. Can we get Giannis? Can we get Thompson? Pretty much everybody else is a conversation, I think.

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1053.721

If it's like he has to be in the trade or we're not trading Giannis, that's a different conversation. But I'm trying to do this while keeping Thompson.

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1071.852

I feel like there's so much more there, the way he's being used on that team versus what I think might be lurking. And they're, they're basically like, go stand in the corner, right? Place the defense, go stand in the corner. And that's all we were really looking for from you. I actually think in this golden state series, I wouldn't mind if they ran some stuff through him anyway.

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1094.058

So do you have Tari ahead of Jalen green? Oh yeah. I do too. I don't think that's a crazy opinion. I would go further. I think Tari should play 40 minutes a game. I wouldn't take him out.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1118.878

Yeah, maybe he's like a guy who looks awesome in 20 minutes, but if it's 40, maybe not as good.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Would you rather keep Reed Shepard or Jalen Green? man. Has Reed done anything? Has there been one moment this year where you're like, there it is. Yeah. The Phoenix, was it the Phoenix game?

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1137.068

I, you know, I, I just feel like Jalen has more, uh, more value than maybe, um, maybe it's worth if you're trying to win a title, I would, I would say the seesaw, you could probably get more for him than you're going to get from him keeping them, but who knows?

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1162.647

Is there an Orlando? Is there a Franz Anthony Black and just a million picks scenario?

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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My favorite team's been going against him for four games. That dude has answered the call. He is a full-fledged playoff guy and really gives a shit and has been playing his absolute ass off and I'm terrified of him.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

120.859

This was an episode that we worked on not knowing how last season was going to play out. And then, of course, last season played out the title. So we had to make some stuff around. But I'm really proud of this series. You can watch all the other episodes on Max. And then this will be the last one. And then binge it.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1215.12

That's pretty good. Yeah, it is a good one. Tatum four years from now for Paolo. I definitely have to have a meeting.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I think it would have to be a miracle for it to be the injury we think it is.

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I think, you know, unlike our net, he has the title. He won a title in Milwaukee, which is a different level of freedom.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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What happens if San Antonio gets involved? What if they go, fuck it? And say, dude, what would it look like if Wemby and Giannis were in the same team?

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1354.495

We'll do four for one and be decent. Right. Yeah. Because we just saw Atlanta in that situation where... they didn't have their pick. So they actually had to keep playing hard and ended up, you know, making the play in where I think if they had their pick, they probably, once Jalen Johnson got out, they would have been done. Can I give you one more scenario?

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If you haven't watched it yet, maybe wait till the NBA playoffs, calm down a little bit and dive in. But we're really proud of it. If you're an NBA fan, I don't understand why you wouldn't enjoy watching this. So there you go. Coming up on this podcast.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1374.204

And I spent a solid 11 minutes deep diving this on Google. Love it. So Brooklyn has two versions of cap space. They have the cap space for a max guy and But they can also renounce some restricted free agents and really blow out their cap space. And if you look at what they have, they basically have $54 million worth of guys that are actually hardcore on the books, plus a bunch of restricted guys.

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1402.722

And I was thinking, is there a scenario where Milwaukee says to Brooklyn, we'll trade you Giannis, but you have to also take Dame's contract in the deal and he'll be ready in a year. And that's part of the trade. You have to take them both. And we'll just figure this out with the machinations of it. And Milwaukee's, basically they just, they clean their cap.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1424.129

Because Milwaukee right now has Kuzma at 22 and 20. Congratulations, by the way, on that. Two more years of him. Portis for 13 next year. Connaughton for 10. Porter and A.J. Green are five combined and that's it. So if for some way they could put Giannis and Dame in the same trade to Brooklyn, it's the only team that would work.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1444.434

and take some contracts back, but not a ton, and basically just have a full reboot. And I don't even know how realistic that is, but I had to mention it because I spent some time Googling it. It's a little unorthodox.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1458.812

Yeah, it's in the mid-150s. So it's kind of doable. They'd have to put a, like a couple of contracts back, but it is like doable. They'd have to renounce everybody. They'd have to do what we've seen teams do in the past where they just, they cut their books except for the guys on contracts. So I, to me, he used to makes the most sense. Maybe he's deal breaker to me.

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Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

1481.484

He used to makes the most sense because they have too many guys. As you mentioned, they also have a shitload of picks and,

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So this is a weird one because Ryan Russell and I went live right after the Indiana Milwaukee game, which featured, unfortunately, a pretty dramatic moment. Not great for Dame Lord. But so we talked about the whole weekend and then. Me, Russell, and Ben Lathan, we taped right after the Lakers-Minnesota game and talked about the NFL draft as well. So that's the second hour of the podcast.

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Yeah, if you were a GM, I'd be like, we should call Rosillo. He loves Booker. I bet he'd overpay for him. He's a huge Booker guy. He's having drinks with Rosillo at the hotel bar. He just fucking loves Booker. I bet we can get one more swap in the deal. He won't be able to handle it.

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It's basically, so the analogy would be 50 years ago, literally 50 years ago, Kareem go in LA for a bunch of stuff and like play here a year and then we'll figure out who's on your team, I think would be the idea. But then you lose another Giannis here. And he's had seven straight years of 30, 12, and six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, he was going to be a free agent after the 76 season. They traded him a year early in 75. So he'd been in college four years. He'd been on the Bucs for like six. So he's probably right around the same Giannis age.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Listen, they want a title. Could be worse. Got a title out of Giannis. You had a great player who you drafted. Was he outside the lottery or right at the tail end of the lottery? I can't remember. Yeah, 15. You hit the jackpot with this amazing pick. You had a lot of good games. And now, unfortunately, this is how the NBA works.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're going to take a break for the podcast. Keep going on YouTube and talk about our two favorite guys. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Spring is here. My favorite time of the year. That means the NBA playoffs. are here too. What am I the most excited about? I'm excited to see if the Celtics can defend their title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm excited to see if Steph Curry and Jokic can keep going and going and going round after round. I'm excited for the potential of an LA versus LA playoff series. It's never happened. Clippers, Lakers, never in my lifetime. Is OKC for real? Is Cleveland for real? Is SGA going to prove that he is the best scoring guard in the postseason? Basically, Since Michael Jordan? Since Kobe Bryant?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is he on that level? We're all going to find out. There's plenty to look forward to on and off the court. like Michelob Ultra Courtside. That's another thing. It's getting fans closer to the game with unique prizes, plus they're giving you a chance to win tickets to the NBA Finals. You heard me. The NBA Finals, which I hope are in Boston. Just head to MichelobUltra.com slash NBA Finals.

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Michelob Ultra Courtside, NBA Finals, sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up. Begins 9 a.m. ET on February 16th, 2025. Ends on May 5th, 2025. See official rules at makealoveultra.com slash rules for price and details, message and data rate may apply. Void where prohibited. All right, Rosillo, you want to go Curry or you want to go Jokic?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Where do you want to go? I'll let you choose your own adventure for this part of the podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's already up on YouTube. So if you're watching this live, watch us live, and then you can go watch that video as well. So pretty action-packed Sunday here on the BS Pod. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are here. It's nine o'clock. Rosillo is here. We already taped an hour earlier this afternoon. You can go watch it on my YouTube channel. Me, Van, Rosillo.

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I've had so many. I mean, we've had some good ones in Boston. Ortiz has to be in there. Bobby Orr has to be in there, even though I barely remember his prime. Brady. I really love Gronk. Gronk was like everything I wanted from just somebody passing through my life for 10 years as a football player. He was great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But non-Boston, Curry and Jokic are way up there for me with Jordan and Bernard King I loved. I really loved Walter Payton for some reason as a kid. I think that's normal as a kid. Cause I think, yeah, well, it would sound like he was on TV all the time, but I just loved him. I love this football cards. I love the clips. I was just always like wanting him to win. And of course he beat the Pats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So mine was Fred Lynn for a child. Fred Lynn was my favorite Red Sox player growing up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like hating blowjobs. I mean, how do you hate Steph Curry? It's ridiculous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, Curry's 37. He's two years older than Michael Jordan was in the 1998 last dance season in the finals, right? When Jordan was like, whoa, he's so old. He's still doing it. He's 35. You know, and LeBron's blown out the age barrier in a lot of ways, but LeBron is also this incredible physical specimen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Curry's this guy that comes into the league and for the first four years, like he, you know, he's having ankle problems. He's in that Milwaukee trade. They give Milwaukee the choice between Monta Ellis or Curry. That's where his stock was. And then he has this incredible 10 year run.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it started to feel like, you know, in October, November, it started to feel like we're at the tail end of it. It really did. Like his team wasn't good enough. the league around him was getting better and younger and, and just more athletic and faster. And it just seemed, it seemed like 22 is going to be his swan song.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then you watch him really since this Butler trade, but games like last night. And I had just come back from that Jokic game, which I can't wait to talk about. And there, there was a weird similarity with the two performances that, where these guys are at such a high level now that teams are throwing like the most complicated defenses at them, weird wrinkles, play to play double teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're banging them. They're doing everything possible to throw them off. And they just have such command of the offense now and what they want to do and when to pick their spots and when to the sense of like, The game's kind of slipping, right? I got to take over the game right here for like three minutes, right? Jokic has the exact same thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And even though those guys are completely different players, watching how they orchestrate the game and insert themselves in the right spots, I just think, I thought he was so good last night. That third quarter he had last night was unbelievable. And Jokic's third quarter was even better. Jokic had 16 points and eight rebounds in the third quarter yesterday against Clippers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It just fucking annihilated them. But for Curry to do that against that Houston team with the length that they have with those wings, the guys they can throw at them, all the ways they were guarding him and the fact that they didn't have Jimmy, you know, and then the other thing is Gary Payton won the game for them down the stretch. And you think like they're 22 lineup. Now Wiggins is in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Moody's in the Wiggins spot, I guess. But that was basically their 22 lineup. Peyton, Wiggins, Draymond, Curry. Who am I forgetting? Clay. Clay. So who's, and Buddy Heald in the clay spot. So you had the facsimile Clay, you had the facsimile Wiggins. And then, but basically that they were super small down this. Did you think they were going to be able to get away going that small?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right, but Buddy was the clay last night, I guess. They were using him for the spacing, and he actually made some threes. Pajemski normally would be the guy in that spot. And they keep trying Kaminga now because they don't have a choice, and it's just, you know, I think the fruit's been out of the fridge for too long with him, unfortunately.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We covered the Lakers and that's coming up later in this podcast too. Rosillo, I was all excited to talk about what a great basketball weekend this was. And then a damper in that Milwaukee-Indiana game. It looked like Dame, I assume he tore his Achilles. We've seen enough of these now to think that that's probably what it looked like. It wasn't great. And it really feels like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know if there's a lot there, but they had to win that game last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I, it was a weird, it was the rare game three must win. I agree. I felt like, uh, you know, cause now I, now I think gold state probably has a series. It's so hard for Houston to score. I just hate their plays. I hate their offense. It's one of those teams when they're up 10, 12, they look really good like they did in game two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But for normal games with real flow and they need to, and I just don't trust anything they're doing offensively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, they have three days until game four. I asked you when we did the part that's coming up with Van about who Golden State would rather play between the Lakers and Minnesota, and you were pretty passionate about Minnesota. I think the one thing, if Golden State went as small as they did last night against Minnesota, I think they'd have a little more trouble.

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I think they'd have more trouble from a rebounding standpoint because Minnesota's a little more built to... Protect the boards, I think, with smaller lineups than the Lakers when Dodgers had one rebound tonight. Incredible Steph game. All right, you want to do Clippers?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I thought about this a lot because I'm trying not to be hyperbolic. And I've been to a lot of good basketball games over the last few years. It was the best basketball game I've seen in person since game one of the 2018 finals. Seven years. I did not, for the record, go to game four of the 2022 finals when Steph had his magical game in Boston.

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been the best one i've seen but game one in the 2018 finals that was the crazy lebron game that was the jr smith um time the uh chair smith whatever happened at the end of the game and the overtime and lebron had that was the incredible lebron game um these teams played so hard it was refereed like a hockey game like one of those hockey games where it's overtime and the refs don't want to call a penalty on anybody and people are just fucking nailing each other um

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Jokic was out of his mind. And Denver did the same thing JJ did today. He's basically like, my bench sucks. I'm going to see if I can try to win this game without bringing my bench in. Jokic played the whole first quarter, the whole third quarter, the whole fourth quarter. And I was sitting with Mike Tolan, who I share my seats with. And the Clipper fans were bummed.

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And I was like, there was seven minutes left. They're down like 15. I'm like, I think they might be able to make a run. He never took any of these dudes out. And you could see Denver. You could see Gordon start to wear down. You could see Murray start to wear down. And even Jokic, who, you know, he always seems like he's worn down. Clippers make the big run. Crowd went crazy.

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And the ending was like nothing I've ever seen. So it was a spectacular basketball game. What stood out to you?

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We are now at the finish line of this Milwaukee area. So we'll start with the Dane piece because it's just been star-crossed really since the moment he showed up in Milwaukee. He's in his mid-30s. He's a small guard. Tough to come back anyway. Feel bad for him. This never worked out. And then big picture, there's a lot of Gianna stuff to talk about. So you tell me, where do you want to start?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Kawhi missed two big shots in the last minute that I think probably win them the game if he makes either of them. And he missed them.

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It's so funny you said that. I said that yesterday watching the game. First of all, he was a maniac. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's no way. The thing, the stuff he was doing, first of all, he coaches the team now. Remember like Bill Russell was the player coach in the late 60s? Jokic coaches the Nuggets now on the court. He tells people where to go. There was this one moment at the end of a quarter

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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when the Clippers were inbounding under the basket and Jokic just goes to the bench and calls for DeAndre Jordan, brings him off the bench and puts him under the basket where he wants him to be for the inbound pass. But he's telling everybody what to do at all times. He's basically making the meals. He's cutting the food for everybody and he's feeding them. And it was, I was saying last night,

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It's the highest level I've seen somebody to go to in person since that LeBron 2018 game and the LeBron 2012 game in Boston. Like the stuff that he's doing, how great he is in all these different ways. It's unbelievable. And you always feel like he's going to make a play. Doesn't matter how you defend him. If you're doubling him, he finds the right guy. He's doing everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Porter was making threes last night, but it was just awesome to watch. And then you think it's going to be a blowout. And then Kawhi is like, you know what? Fuck it. And just takes over the game for like six minutes. And even did the thing where he takes the steal at midcourt for Murray, where he does the thing where he's like, I'm going to take the ball. Is that the ball?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm just going to take... Jamal, I'm just going to take the ball from you now. He just took it. It was just awesome. It was such a high-level game. And I can't tell you how physical it was. I don't know how to translate it on TV. But this was like fucking... This was like Game 7 hockey. Like bodies flying. People ramming into each other. People like...

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you know, pulling each other backwards and over. And it was so fucking good. It was like, these are two really, really, really high level teams. I think either of these teams could, uh, could, could go a couple rounds. I okay. Versus. Okay. See, it gets tough for Denver. No bench Clippers. I think I have a better chance, but I will say the Clippers stumbled into one thing. So, uh,

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They went that small lineup, which they'd been hesitant to do with all the shooters because they always had Dunn out there, Derek Jones. But there was always one guy where Denver was like, go ahead. We're going to give you that one in the corner. Well, that's been Dunn's role this whole time. Just keep firing away. We're good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So finally, finally, the Clippers said, we're going to put all our shooters out. We're going to play this weird zone and we're trying to fuck you up with it. And it worked. And they fucked Denver up for three, four minutes. And then finally Jokic shifted to try to attack Bogdanovich. He shifted. His fucking computer brain just figured it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then he goes, he's like, right here, I will go to this right spot and this will be how I fuck up the zone. And so eventually he figured it out. But I think they're going to have to play that lineup is my point. Because they need offense. They can't have Dunn out there just bricking threes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He thought he could finish the game with like seven minutes left in the fourth quarter and sit those guys. There was one thing that happened. Pickett comes in in the first quarter. And he got stripped in the backcourt. And then he missed a shot and something else happened. And they, and you could just see his confidence. It was like watching the ninth grader in the high school game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Who's like, Oh God, this guy's not ready. They pulled them out. They went to timeout and the nuggets were like consoling him on the bench. Like, yo, yo, keep your head up. It was like, that's how bad it was. Um, so I think they realized then, all right, we can't play this guy. DJ played in the first half. And then, uh, the other one who played was Watson, but

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They were basically five guys and somehow avoided foul trouble. The other guy who was awesome was Gordon. he was possessed. He was like going after Kawhi. And the big picture thing I saw from them yesterday, because I really felt like, I don't know if you agree after game three, that that team was ready to go either way.

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And you could have told me they're going to roll over in game four and maybe get knocked out in five or six. And that was it. And it was a fucked up season and they lost our coach and GM and the whole thing. And it just, they didn't have it. Or you could have told me, they're actually going to fight because they won the championship two years ago and they have some real pride.

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They came out with like real pride. They were like, we're not going down this way. We're, we're throwing haymakers and we're ready to fight you guys to keep this, especially Jokic. And that was the difference. And I didn't know they had it in them. I gotta be honest.

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And we got to mention, I mean, there's some, I hate to do it, it's the cliche, but the Clippers in the playoffs, like this is just, This is just them. The series is 2-2. They blow game one, which we did a pod after that game. We were like, they should have won that game. That was stupid. Then they lose this game at the buzzer, basically. This ties into... They moved here in 1979.

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They've had nine first-round exits, five second-round exits, and one West Finals. And that's it. They've never won a series in less than five games. They have a bunch of playoff terrible memories. And what was different yesterday... And Mike and I were sitting there, we were watching Ballmer at one point in the fourth quarter when they were coming back and it was so loud.

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I mean, it's like, it's a top four atmosphere like that into it. I'm telling you it's top four atmosphere in the league right now, but the way how the fans are on topic, it's super loud. Like you can really, it affects the game.

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Definitely. MSG. Definitely. And I think, okay, see, it gets really, really loud. Like to the point that your head hurts. I would say those would be my three golden state used to, I haven't really felt the chase center. I don't think the chase center probably has it in quite the same way. Uh, but we looked over a bomber, uh, And it honestly looked like he was having an orgasm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He was, it was just like, he spent all this money building this building, hoping the Clippers are going to be good. He goes in on Kawhi, that crazy extension you and I never would have allowed him to do if we were conciliaries, right? We would have thrown our bodies in front of that. Keeps Harden, we would have thrown our bodies in front of that. And just had this amazing, amazing playoff game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's celebrities everywhere. Bob Iger sitting next to Michael Eisner. How about that? Those two guys sharing the tickets. They, they, but everywhere. And it's just, it felt like a Laker game. There was real energy and it was great. And it was an awesome, awesome basketball game. And we're like, wow, bomber did it, man. This is it.

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This was like, would have been like the dream to have a playoff game. That was as good as this, but Jokic is going to be the enduring memory for me for that game. He's just so incredible. And we've talked about him all the time, but the level he went to in that game yesterday and how competitive he was, you're right. This guy's playing until he's 40. You can't turn that off. Like he's a psychopath.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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He's screaming at everybody. You seem horny tonight. I love basketball this weekend. It was great. Until the Dame thing was a bummer, but I thought Curry, Jokic, that Lakers-Minnesota game, which we talk about later in the podcast and what Ant was able to do against those guys. This is like, what an incredible run for the league right now. Don't you think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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This is one of the best 24-hour stretches the league's had in a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah. Point taken. Well, and other things happen. Now we're developing some history with some of these guys, right? Like Tatum and Edwards, some of the younger guys. It's a little familiarity now. Cleveland, maybe he'll get there. People know who SGA is. Casual fans, I think, know who he is. The Luka Lakers thing, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah, I mean, this was my favorite bet of the entire first round was Indiana to win game one and Indiana to win the series. I think Indiana's underrated. I thought Milwaukee was overrated. I think Milwaukee loses the series regardless of what happens with Dame, which is why it was such a bummer because...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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The less they can go against football, the better the league's going to be, and that's the thing they need to figure out, how they can shift the schedule a couple weeks here and there just so they can avoid it, and that's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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It's a big family league. So who do you think wins Clippers Denver? Who would you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Mike and I were complaining because Mike is a Philly fan. So he's like, oh, here we go. Philly Harden. He was like fucking pissed off. And then Harden, I thought, really was a big part of that comeback and was attacking Christian Brown. And, you know, I like the decisions he made. I thought he was competitive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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When it happens in the series, when Milwaukee still seemed like they had a puncher's chance to hang around, they're favored tonight, right? They're down 2-1 in the series. They're favored minus four tonight. You never know. He could get hot. They have Giannis, who's the best guy in the series. But I just continue to think Indiana's really good. I can't think Cleveland is fired up to see them

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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So Gordon was dead at the end of that game. Somehow he had the strength of the alley-oop.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I had a Chris Dunn point that you're like 19, 2022 Marcus Smart. 2025 Chris Dunn parallels. Without the I've got this? He's like Marcus Smart with the I've got this pills that he's taken? I have another one for you that you're going to love.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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There were so many rough ones. I think I blocked them all out. You know how Jerry West is the logo? Sure. I think we should call Ben Simmons the half-court logo because he sees that thing and he comes to a screeching stop. It's the electric fence like a dog. I thought of that yesterday. I was at the game. I was like, I gotta tell Rossello we gotta start calling Simmons the half-court logo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I'm addicted to it. If they intentionally foul him once to put him on the line, I think that that'll be it. He'll be on the bench with the Norma Tech on his leg from that point on. He'll be like, I don't know if I can go. Calf's kicking up again. He's flying around a little bit defensively. He was getting feisty with Jokic. Yeah, they were going at it. It was impressive. Let me ask you this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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What do you think the line is on FanDuel for the Clippers Nugget Series right now? Games five and seven are in Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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It was minus 118 for the Clippers starting the series. And now it is 2-2 with 5-7 in Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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The Clippers are minus 164 favorites. So Vegas seems to be aligned. Vegas is like, how are these guys? How is this 2-2? Is Vegas' thing. The Warriors are minus 360. Minnesota is minus 500, as we covered before. And then in the East, all those series are. I got to be honest with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah, because you could see Houston. The problem with Houston is they could just make some shots and all of a sudden it's 2-2. Right? Especially if Jimmy doesn't play. And Kerr is definitely looking at the bench going, ah, can I get 18 minutes out of Quinton Post? Can Kaminga give me like seven minutes right now? I don't think he has a handle on the roster, would be my guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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in round two, and if you're telling me could I have Indiana in round two or could I have New York in round two as an opponent, I'm taking the Knicks 100 times out of 100 in that, aren't you? Wouldn't you rather play the Knicks than Indiana?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I'm surprised he hasn't played more. I'm actually surprised Jackson Davis hasn't gotten a sniff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Isn't he on the team still? Remember two years ago? They haven't played him at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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A couple more quick things for you. Orlando Celtics. Do you think Orlando could be genuinely good next year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah, I agree. Well, there's also there's something they did in the last game that my dad was all fired up about Orlando in the game they won. They were crashing the boards, right? They ended up with, I'm looking it up, 15 offensive rebounds in game three. And they were sending three, four guys to the boards on every shot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Sometimes four, because they weren't worried about the Celtics running off a rebound. Because the Celtics are so deliberate at this point. They were like, let's use that against them. We don't have to worry about... Like how the Lakers... they'll send LeBron almost like a wide receiver down the court for those long Luka passes. Orlando's like, we know you guys aren't going to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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You guys want to walk the ball up. So we're just going to crash the boards. And I thought it was one of the reasons Boston lost the game. They never adjusted to it. Boston wasn't playing with any pace. I also think If you don't think Drew Holiday is massively important to the Celtics, you have to watch these last two games because in these crunch times when he's not out there, you really feel it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I trust him. Other than Tatum, I trust him the most on anyone in the Celtics. And he's always in the right spots. He's always going to get one big rebound. He's going to make one defensive play. He'll hit a three in the corner. You just know he's going to do stuff. And I just felt like they really missed him the last two games. But Orlando is a guy, sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I think Black, something's there with Black. I like what I've seen from him. I think you have him, you have Suggs, you signed Ty Jerome, Palo another year. I think Wendell Carter has shown that in a playoff series, he can play with some physicality and some toughness that I think really matters in some of these seven gamers. So the pieces are there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I could see us going over locks in October with House, right? Like Orlando, 49 and a half, over. I think this is the year, blah, blah, blah. It's a, it's a good, they're going to lose the series, but I think it's a good outcome for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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He's had a couple drives on Porzingis where he made it look like Porzingis was like 6'2". He's used Porzingis' height against him. It's been impressive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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So maybe the other problem is when you go eight for 32 in every playoff game, you're probably not going to win a playoff series. Like Orlando just can't shoot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Nick's Detroit before we go. Any takeaways? Incredible Towns game. That's like one of the great... Towns games in a while. And he even capped it off with a dumb foul at the end when he got the fifth foul out of nowhere. And I was like, come on, Towns. You might go to OT. You're going to have five fouls. But I thought he was awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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If the Celts can just get in there, get some experience. No, I think it's valuable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Well, it gets worse than that because you... You're basically living and dying with Hardaway and Malik Beasley, which is fine in the regular season when you're trying to go like 46 and 36, but you're actually trying to win a playoff game and match baskets. You can feel the talent difference. But Towns made a couple 29-footers in this game that swung the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I actually thought Detroit probably should have won this game when you consider the timing of the Brunson injury, the fact that it felt like Detroit was pulling away. The crowd was crazy. I'm sure Detroit's got to be kicking themselves. And by the way, Cade had a wide open 14 footer at the end. You know, everybody was talking about whether Hart fouled Hardaway or not in the corner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And by the way, when a game's that physical, you know, I'm not good with that side in the game when you've let everything go the whole game. Cade had, they got the shot they wanted. Cade was really good all game and got a really nice open 14 footer and he missed it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Would you ever not have OG guarding Cade? I have so many issues with Tibbs in this series and especially the game today. And that's the one I just can't. I would just have OG on Cade the entire game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Bridges was on him a lot today in that game. There's some stuff Tibbs does. Like, I don't understand why Brunson brings the ball up every time. Every other team takes that pressure off the guy when a team's pressuring. Just let Bridges bring the ball up. Save those miles and those minutes on Brunson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And they're just like, yo, just work your ass off bringing the ball up against Schroeder, who's an absolute pest. He's one of the three pests in the league. I don't understand why you're putting the miles on him. They played a lineup in the second half with no Towns and no Brunson. Tibbs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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It's like one of those guys has to be in the court at all times, period. Like, what are you doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Oh, Rockets fans who are going forward, grandfathered in for 30 more years because they're in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Coming up, a wild, raucous weekend of NBA action. It's all next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I've been kind of blown away by Cade and I know he's, the turnovers are too high in these playoff games. what he's navigating against those Knicks perimeter guys, the burden that he has, but also like there's real leadership from him already. And he's pretty young. You know, like there was that Ron Holland moment. Ron Holland had to get mad because, you know, it's in the bargaining agreement.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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No, he was in last year's draft. He's 23 years old. Yeah, he's 23. No, no, no, no, no. Ron Holland? Oh, I'm saying Kate Cunningham. Oh, oh, okay. I'm sorry. No, Ron Holland's like 15 years old. A man's?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Cade Cunningham is 23 years old. And I just think that's the win is you're putting him in this atmosphere with the crowd. He's got a taste of it. I have some ESPN notes. Maybe don't go to a commercial when Jalen Brown is, when Jalen Brunson is leaning against the scorer's table, holding his ankle in complete agony and do the, we'll be back after this. And then you're gone for four minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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That's one. Number two, I don't think you need to show Jalen Rose 15 times after you fucking laid him off two years ago, three minutes before he was about to do a get up segment and gets a call and says, don't go and get up because you're about to be laid off. Maybe don't show him over and over again during the game. You motherfuckers aggregate that. I don't care.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Hey, there's Jay LaRose. We completely blindsided him two years ago after he did 15 years of great work for our company. He seems happy. Just classic. Just can't get over that place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I never like when anyone dives at the ball when they're going into somebody's legs. But in that one, that seemed pretty fluky. Ant was putting his foot back to plant right as LeBron was diving. I didn't feel like there was any ill intent at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Do we put a moratorium on the Willis Reed references for like a round one playoff game and it's game four? Willis Reed, like one of the greatest moments in the history of the league. And by the way, his hip muscle was completely torn off his body and he got shot up with a horse tranquilizer just to drag his leg around for like two jump shots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I just feel like that should be kind of put in the safe as we're not allowed to compare things to that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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All right. I think we hit everything because we have the rest of the pod. with Van that you can hear right after this break on the podcast for the YouTube audience. We are going to say goodbye. Rosillo, enjoy all the hoops this week. I'll see you now that you're the new Lakers, Diane Cannon. I'll probably see you at the Laker game on, on Tuesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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All right. Ant in person. Can't pass it up. LeBron and Luka all in person. I've heard of all of those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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He's got to get it all done. Good to see you, Russell. See you next week. Thanks. All right, we are recording a little after 3.30 on Sunday afternoon. We told Van Lathan to come join us and talk draft between the two sets of games, but the Lakers game was so awesome against Minnesota. Minnesota goes up 3-1. Now, we're just going to do this now at a sequence.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Rusillo, your guy, Anthony Edwards, 43 points, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 44 minutes, a key cut. In the last 15 seconds of the game, they're in a broken play, and they end up beating the Lakers three games to one. There was a lot of high-end offensive chess going on there with Edwards. I was really impressed. They're doubling him. They're not doubling him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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They're doubling him again, and he was just kind of figuring it out. I thought that was the best game I've seen him play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah, I think they're super confident in this series. The Bucs just aren't good enough defensively. By the time we started taping this, the Pacers had like 34 assists in this game. When you're in the high 20s and up in assists, that tells me two things. One is your team likes to move the ball, and two, you're probably playing a team that can't you know, kind of recover and rotate in time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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No, JJ did the same thing the Nuggets did yesterday. They were like, our bench sucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Extra day. Can we win this game in the first 42 minutes and maybe stagger the minutes so that the last six minutes don't matter and they go for the kill the same way the Nuggets did? And yet the Timberwolves hung around, hung around, hung around, hung around. I thought LeBron looked exhausted. And yet he made like three of the better defensive plays of the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Van, when you watch, I know you're a Laker fan, we should mention. Yeah. So you're watching this and they're just not, JJ's like, fuck it. No bench. LeBron, just run in the corner during some offensive possessions. Maybe you can grab 20 seconds there. Maybe there'll be a challenge. Are you like, why aren't you playing the bench? Or are you like, this is the right move?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah, you're watching this. You're going, they can just stay within like five to seven with five minutes left. They have the younger team and the better legs and they have Ant, who's going to be the least tired out of all of these guys. I thought what LeBron did coming off Friday night, I think you and I saw it the same way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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That Friday night game was super physical, grueling, and it almost seemed unfair. They had to play like 40 hours later. It just seemed like a bad schedule spot for them. Yeah, not even. I thought JJ was going to go the other way and be like, I got to play the bench guys more because my guys are going to be dead from Friday night. It was the opposite.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And LeBron, especially the first three quarters, I don't really understand what I'm seeing anymore at age 40 for him on defense. This is like, he looks like 2013 Miami Heat LeBron in some of these moments. But they had those two guys humming. in the first half and they're still, what was it like a three point game at halftime? Uh, I just don't think they have enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And at the same time, I would not bet against them coming back from three one. Do you, are you in the, I think this is too tall of a task for Lakers zone, or do you think there's a path for them?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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So it just, it confirmed everything I thought having in the series. I just didn't think the bucks were just good enough as a team defense. I think it's a weird team. Like they really need these weird Porter, these six minute stretches where Porter just gives up Minson offense. Cause other than that, what else do they have other than the honest piece and now Dame gone, that's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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My favorite Randall stretch I've seen been probably ever in his career from a two way standpoint. I'd given up. This would be a good, it'd be a good website or like where you just track where you like, where it's like, have you given up yet? Are you still holding on? I would have just checked the I've given up box on Randall. I'd love the way he played it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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He also seems physically like just not afraid of Luca or LeBron. And I think that's one of the problems for the Lakers in this series is Minnesota has kind of the same kind of size, like just bodies to bang with them, at least make it hard for them. But were you ever out on Randall? Where'd you stand?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Good culture thing, huh? I never thought Randall would learn how to not be a ball stopper. I'm still not convinced. Are we sure? Russell, are we sure that this is a new chapter of Randall or is this just a phase?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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So, you know, I think big picture, if I'm Indiana and, This couldn't have turned out better. We might be able to get rid of these guys in five, right? Cleveland's going to get rid of Miami in four. They'll just... That series will start a little early, but not too early. They'll have five days to really circle each other and look at each other. And I think... I don't know, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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One other thing. Reeves had a bad first half, right? But he has a bad first half you don't notice. There's guys that can be bad and you don't really notice for like an hour. When Randall's bad... You just see it. You see it on his face. His body language is bad. You're just constantly aware. It's like this black cloud just goes over his head and follows him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I would probably pick Cleveland at seven at gunpoint, but I really want to look at this because I think Indiana has a real chance in this series. I really do. I think they can hang with them. I think it's a nice matchup. I think their guards against Cleveland's guards, I think they can throw some punches and make them work on defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

5498.277

Well, the bummer is I like watching both of these teams, and I feel the same about Nuggets Clippers. I just enjoy all four of those teams, and we're going to lose two, and yet we're going to probably keep... a couple of teams I don't enjoy as much as we headed to round two. The thing with, I can't believe these are first round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Well, I was watching today wondering, cause Golden State, I don't want to jinx it, but I think winning that game, stealing that game last night without Butler was such a good sign for them. And I'm sure they're watching a game like today. They have a couple of days off in that. All right. If we can somehow get by Houston, who would we rather play?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And after that game, I don't even know what I would tell them because, yeah, the Lakers don't have a bench.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah, the ceiling of Minnesota is higher, but you watch those two guys going at the same time today. Like, I think Minnesota has a better team. I wouldn't count the Lakers out in this series yet. Like, you figure they'll win game five. Van, I looked already. I looked into the future. It's a 65 to 10 free throw advantage in game five. Ha ha ha! That's the over-under. But then game six, who knows?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think they have three-point shooting and they have a bench to throw at them that can match Cleveland's bench, which I think was a huge advantage for Cleveland this year. Now Cleveland brings in their bench, but Indiana's bringing in good guys too. I think Neesmith putting him on Mitchell and having him chase him around, that's not nothing. And I think they can at least make Cleveland sweat.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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You know that those Lakers have had some guys who have been in some big games over the years. And then you have that fear of like, if we don't take care of this, now we got to go back to LA for a game seven. Minnesota, I think has a better team though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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They have to double ant. They have to hope whoever their smallest guy isn't getting bullied by Rando or Nasrid or whatever. There's a lot of things they're hoping don't happen. The T-Wolves basically just seem like we just have to make sure Luka doesn't get easy looks. Seems to be a lot of their strategy though. Rosillo, this stat's interesting. Lakers shot 19 for 47 from three today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Usually if you're around 19, 20 made threes in the NBA, the way it is now, that's a win, right? Like 19 out of 20 times. So if I'm J.J., I'm like, fuck, we played our five out thing. We dumped Jackson Hayes finally. I tried to get away with no bench as much as possible. We made all our threes. I got a great game from Rui. I got a huge second half from Reeves and we still lost. Now what do I do?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I think Cleveland's really good. We've been talking about them all year, but I also think Indiana's really good. I think they have an identity. I think they know who they are. So do I think Cleveland's going to win? Yeah, probably. But do I think they're psyched to see Indiana? I don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

5894.926

That's my favorite thing, international basketball. Yet another person really helped by their experiences abroad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Wait, you made that key point in the beginning, Russell, about how he did this last year too, but something feels different. And I think this is what it is. When he made his playoff run last year and had those 10-11 games, we were like, shit, those look like Michael Jordan stats. What's going on here? The other teams weren't treating him yet like he's being treated this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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It was just happening in real time. where you're going, man, this guy's kind of amazing. And then finally we get to the Dallas series, and they're like, all right, this is over. We're now treating him like he's a guy. This playoffs, he's been treated in the Lakers series like he is at that level. And I think that, to me, is the difference, is understanding I am now here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I'm going to be treated this way. And the way that he feels like he's on the same level as Luka and 40-year-old LeBron, I feel like they're all peers. We wouldn't have said that last year. I didn't feel like he was like Jokic's peer last year. He was just having an awesome series. You know what I mean? This year, I feel like he's peers with those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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It's the only thing we can do. Can I read you the weirdest stat of this game? Luka Doncic, 38 points, 45 minutes, one rebound, two assists. Sure. That's a low number, Bill. It's a Cam Thomas game. What is happening? And LeBron puts up 12 rebounds, eight assists.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Whatever this version of LeBron is, it's just, I talked about it a few days ago. It's this new version he's just created now where he's like a hybrid of nine different versions of him for the past. The stuff he's doing on defense, he's just stripping dudes. He's protecting the rim. He's moving his feet on defense and blocking passing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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He hasn't played defense like this, I don't think, since 2020, personally. Am I wrong, Rosillo?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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The falling away from the basket, lefty floater layup right at a guy. It was on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Ant did a crazy, I just want to be involved in this play so badly, I'm going to do a delayed cut behind you, like a trailer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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It was almost like a wide receiver hoping for a lateral. It was like a lateral. Yeah. And he flipped it back to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Well, we're both going to be there. I know you go to every Laker game now. You're the new Diane Cannon. I'm going to go on Tuesday because I love basketball. Rosillo's there. Since they got Luca, Rosillo's... He's there wearing a Slovenian baseball jacket. He's, he's all in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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The Soho House is a bad example, I think. I think anyone can get in the Soho House.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Like Kevin Hart just walks in. They're like, hey, it's Kevin Hart.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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You're like Ant in the Lakers series right now. You're one win away.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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By the way, Kings game, I think you're in. I think you go to any Kings Oilers game, they're just like, boom.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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You'll know somebody from the Bay. It's just the way it happens. Van, I have a question. This is all really good. Thanks, guys. You're welcome. Is the league ready for Anthony Edwards to be the face of the league? Hell no.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I love him. You think they've had meetings about this? Been like, what happens if this happens?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Well, I think he's ready. Because you go through that. Think about this gauntlet, Russillo. If he can finish off the Lakers, he's finishing off LeBron and Luka, who are now in the same team. Then you would go next round, Steph, Draymond, Warriors. And that's before you even get to the third round. Or a man Thompson, Van Vliet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I'm just saying, if it's the Warriors, you'd be going through two of the league's icons back-to-back before you even got to the 68-win OKC team that just swept Memphis that is now 72-14 on the season. Yeah, but I mean, look.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, everybody had four fouls in the five-minute mark of the third quarter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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I'm surprised. How did they not cut the feed of the Skycam? It's like, yeah, it's not working. I will say this would be a very tough game for, for Minnesota on Wednesday. Cause also the LA, like the crowd's good and the crowd, the crowd does affect the refs a little bit, you know, and you have LeBron and Luca who are the two of the better ref workers in

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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you know, as the game goes on, and you combine that with the fans, shit goes down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Oh, I haven't looked yet. I would say Lakers by two and a half for game five. Minus two and a half? Minus two and a half Lakers. It's minus five and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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What do you think the series line is? Did you look? Cause I just looked. I didn't. T-Wolves are minus 500. Lakers are plus 385. Ooh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Yeah, I wouldn't say it's hope. I just think when you have two guys that can put up points like that, I think it's different. Like if Orlando were taping this as a Celtics game, if Orlando goes down 3-1, they can't score. They have real issues. It'd be really hard to put together three wins. I think it's a little similar to what had to happen for them in 2016. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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When they had LeBron and Kyrie, they fell down 3-1. The league did the ridiculous technical on Draymond that ends up getting him suspended, which is still the worst thing, the worst league decision of this century. But then those guys just went off the next two games. Remember LeBron and Kyrie? That would be my fear if I'm Minnesota. How do we make sure those guys don't combine for 80 points?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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LeBron, I guess, is just not going to get tired. at all during this playoffs. You can't count on like, oh, he's old. This will be an old legs game for him. He's just not having them. So... Let's, uh, let's take a quick break and then we'll talk about the draft. The draft. Russillo was just in his house yesterday with the McShay crew breaking it down for two hours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Sanders dropping all the way down to the Browns hijacked the draft in a lot of ways. Uh, it hijacks, it hijacked my text with Van Lathan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Um, for sure. It, uh, it ended up in a really, really weird, goofy place where Cleveland passes on them. It felt like 20 times and then finally took them and they cut to the war room and nobody in the war room seemed like remotely excited about it. So it almost made you wonder if it was an owner decision, but I wait, instead of talking about the, Oh, how could this have had blah, blah, blah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Like there's a bigger picture question of when this happens, why does it happen? So you have some thoughts, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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When somebody drops like this and it's all for the, there's the sports talk reasons for it. And then there's the actual reason. So let's have the conversation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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That's my guy, Will Campbell. who you told me dominated everybody for the entire time he was at LSU and then did the measurements and his arms were an inch short. So then it's like, I don't know, he might be a guard. But you told me nobody got by him ever at LSU.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When Rasil and I talk, we love the NBA draft stuff. We did the redraftables, and it's so fun to see how teams miss on guys. Like Brunson was somebody we all liked in college, and then he goes through the process, and it's like, yeah, he's too short. What is he? Is he a two guard? And then he falls to like 32, and it seems stupid. With Sanders, he's clearly not a fifth-round pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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If you look in last 25 regular season, Cleveland was seventh net rating and Indiana was ninth. The Indiana stats basically for the last two thirds of the season, they were a top eight team pretty consistently. And that was why I just couldn't believe the Indiana, the Indianapolis, Milwaukee stuff. thought they were clearly a better team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I do understand. Here's an example. Like Jacksonville. Jacksonville's not very good. They took Hunter already, who we played with. They have Lawrence, who we're not positive about. Lawrence is ever going to make it as like a real guy who's going to win playoff games. And we get to the fourth round with Jacksonville and it's like, this seems like a logical candidate to be like, you know what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Fuck it. We're going to take Shadrach Sanders. Let's say, and we'll have, but here's why can't you do that for Jacksonville? Because the moment you do that, everybody's like, Oh man. Oh, Could he take Lawrence's job? And then the moment Lawrence has three picks in week two, then it becomes, should Shador play? Should he get a shot?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And Priscilla, I just don't think, I think there's like 20 teams that are just like, we don't want to deal with this. We don't want to deal with all the, should he play? Should he not play? We'd rather just take this other guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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It was like, I like Cole strange. He didn't look at a single bar.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And even if you spotted, like you said, if you spotted Giannis 38 and 17 every game, I still think Indiana wins the series. What's up? Let's go big picture. Oh, go ahead.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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You also have... probably 10, 11 teams total are going to be in the pool to take them. And then individually, each team talked themselves out of him for whatever reason, the most surprising me in Pittsburgh. But I do wonder is a piece of this, you draft, like you have the coach is one of the people in the decision-making room and every room, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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you know, if you draft him, I think was one of the reports. I think Schefter said this. So he reported like, there's a coach that would be worried that the moment you bring this guy in, it's going to be just nonstop. Dion's going to replace. He's going to be the next coach. He's going to coach his kid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And I do, we know that coaches can sabotage this shit in subtle ways, but we're still the only bad interview. We've heard some bad interview stories with the NBA stuff. The only one I remember hearing was,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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was the lamella one when, when, um, when team, the team thought he tanked the interview because he wanted to go somewhere else that other than that, I don't, do you remember many interview stuff with NBA teams? Yeah, I do. Like, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Right. So Milwaukee wins the 21 title. They lose to Boston in seven the next year in round two. They lose to Miami in round one, one of your favorite round one series ever, the Jimmy Butler series. They lose to Indiana last year in round one, have some injuries. They lose in round one this year. They've had three coaches.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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But once again, how much, how much of that has to do with the position he plays and what people seem to expect from the quarterback position when you're talking about leadership, charisma, calming force, guy who lifts up your teammates and they're looking at him and it's like, if this guy's going to carry himself a certain way, but doesn't have the talent to back it up, it's almost like counterproductive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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You know what it reminds me of a little bit? I'm going to do something really dangerous. I'm going to use a cross-racial comparison. Oh, Jesus. I'm a veteran. Here we go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where Avenue Rewatch was going up on Monday night. It is a one for us. It's just me and Chris Ryan. We went old school. We just picked a movie we really like that's on Tubi a lot. It's called Someone to Watch Over Me. It stars Tom Barringer, Mimi Rogers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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They have that Dame trade that turns out part disaster to begin with, and then he gets hurt and makes it kind of a full disaster. If you look back at the last two years, the assets they gave up. They're in real trouble with draft picks. which I think they even could have started talking about on the broadcast. They don't have their pick this year. You want that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Um, I was, I was going to say Adam Morrison and here's why. Okay. Cause he had that really fun college season that everybody enjoyed. Then he flamed out in the, in the, in the tournament and he cried on the court and it became a thing. And then it was, he became one of the most polarizing prospects in a while. And some people were like, that guy's not athletic enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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to be a starting small forward in the NBA and be able to score. And other people were like, you got to look at his history, look at the college, look at all the stuff, the big game and all the carrying a team, all the same stuff. And then Charlotte ended up taking him third. Like they bought into it and he was a bust.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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But it's the same kind of thing where the fans are seeing one thing because they're like, no, no, no, no. He did this. And I watched this game in Gonzaga. We had 38, which is a little like watching Colorado on a Saturday night. I'm like, no, no, that game, the 53 52 game. And he was awesome. And then all the diehard NFL people were like, he doesn't have it. It's barely a starter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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Best case scenario, Teddy Bridgewater, maybe Andy Dalton. And it just didn't jibe with what I think the general public saw. Right. Am I crazy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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And Colin Coward, our friend Colin, who had the, what was the Pittsburgh trade? TJ Watt. Whoa. Somebody else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Dame Goes Down, Jokic-Curry Beauties, Ant’s L.A. Takedown, and Shedeur Theories With Ryen Russillo and Van Lathan Jr.

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No, I mean, it's so much bleaker than just, oh man, our second best guy is probably out next season and we don't have a bunch of assets coming in. They have a swap with New Orleans in 26. That's New Orleans call, right? So start there. Their 27th pick goes to New Orleans. Their 28 and 30 picks are swaps with Portland. That's Portland's call.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can I add one piece to that? It doesn't seem like anybody thought he was a definite starting quarterback. Because we know this because the Steelers, who literally don't have a quarterback, were like, yeah, even we don't think he's a quarterback. But it also seems like teams were a little worried that he'd be a good backup, which is the whole point.

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If you're taking a quarterback, you want somebody who can be the backup. He's in the room. Maybe he can play. Maybe he has the upside to be a starter, but he's just going to be able to fit in. And as we're so said earlier, you don't really want to hear from this guy that much. It's going to be on the bench with the headset, tell him what's play. And obviously teams felt like,

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even that seemed like a tall task for him. Cleveland ends up taking him. They have the weirdest quarterback room, I think, in the history of football. I don't know if you've seen the list.

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I would say Kenny Pickett, maybe. I hope he's renting an apartment, would be my guess.

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Can we talk about the most important story of the weekend, though? The Patriots fucking nailing a draft and getting an A-plus on Bleacher Report. We got an A-plus. Is this the only time you've ever liked Bleacher Report? This is the only time I've liked a Patriots draft, I think, this century, where I've just felt we didn't do one thing that made me go, wait, what happened?

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Even Van was like, every time we took an OSU guy, Van was like, I love that guy. That's my guy.

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I think he was on the list. The OSU running back fell to 38, I think. They didn't even interview him. They just took him.

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We got a long snapper and a kicker. My dad was like, I talked to him this morning and usually the first 50 minutes would be like, I don't know what happened in the second round. We took that guy there who's coming off the torn ACL or whatever. He was delighted. What was the biggest shock for you, Russo, in the... in the draft in general. Is there anything that stupefied you?

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And I think one of them then becomes, the 28 pick then becomes the second swap with Washington. So they get the third worst pick that year. And then their 29 first goes to Portland. So they don't have their pick the next five years. So when you think about like, oh, they're going to trade Giannis, blow it up and rebuild. They can't rebuild because they don't have their picks.

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A ton of running backs, like third, fourth round range. It's like really deep in certain spots.

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I think he was the backup if Henderson wasn't there, to be honest. I think that was... They wanted to get a weapon. They weren't going to take a wide receiver. No, I mean, he went like, what, four picks later? Three picks later?

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This is an even worse situation than Brooklyn. So whatever they do, they almost have to like stay competitive in whatever trade they get back And I was looking at the teams that were the possibilities. I hate doing this, but why not? And it's Houston, I think, has to be a consideration because Houston could make a four for one with picks, get Giannis, keep a couple guys and be really good.

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He was probably psyched he didn't have the extra miles going on him before he went to the NFL.

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We have to wrap up because I want to watch the Celtics game because right now it's 443. But I have to ask you guys this. Should I be worried about Belichick? and this girlfriend.

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Well, I mean, for me, Belichick's like a family member. You know, it's like he's like my uncle. He's like, he's just part of the fam. And I feel like this woman is so crazy. Like, I just scared for him.

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Did he frustrate me during the draft? Sure. Was he a barrel lobster in the press conferences?

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Did we win six Super Bowls? Were we awesome for 20 years? Yeah. I love Belichick. I'm worried about him.

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It reminds me of when Katie Holmes started dating Cruz and we all started getting worried for her when she got Stepford Wives by Cruz all of a sudden. It was like, oh, no. We got to save Katie Holmes. I just when that video of her in the high heels walking on the football field. That's Katie Holmes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That video of her going on the field and ordering people around like she was a party planner at a wedding. And it's like it's spring scrimmage. What are the people at the school think of this? And did you see she shut down somebody who's printing Belichick t-shirts and she like shut the account down? Yeah. I just, it's not good.

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We've seen a lot of these over the years and this one doesn't feel like it ends that well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Not well. A breakup? Yeah, like a breakup. Like they all end. A tell-all book.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just want him to win some games at UNC. I was looking forward to that. You know, I casually root for LSU because I like my friend Van. I was excited to root for UNC. I was actually excited for this college football season. Now I'm worried our guy Belichick is in trouble.

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Brooklyn has been the rumored one, but I don't know if Brooklyn can give them enough picks back that they could still stay competitive. OKC has to be mentioned. There's a Knicks trade with Towns and pick Ananobi or Bridges for Giannis, like something like that, that I don't think is realistic. And then Cerruti's Orlando Magic. I think those would be the five teams, right?

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Well, you say he's 72. I would be worried if this was Russillo. In his late 40s. And it was like, did you hear about this girl we're still dating? Yeah.

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I'm talking about the ages. I'm talking about the uprooting the life part. This Belichick, this mystical figure who never seemed like this would ever happen to him. And it's happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I hope in the title it says. He's going to be doing like dancing videos where he's dancing with his six rings. Like, what is happening? All right. Thanks, guys. Peace. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Gidhow. Thanks to Van. Thanks to Rosillo.

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Don't forget, you can watch all the clips from this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, including the second hour of this podcast, which is also just available by itself as a clip. New rewatchables coming Monday night. Someone watch over me. Celtic City, last episode, HBO, 9 p.m., Monday night. And I will see you in this podcast on Tuesday.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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And they're not giving up Paolo for Giannis, I don't think. But could you do Franz and some others, Black and a bunch of picks and, you know, maybe, I don't know. But if you hear all those teams that I just listed off, what was the one that jumped out to you?

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You forgot Shang-Goon was a little Tobias Heresy in that game three. It was like, hey, it's Shang-Goon. I didn't realize you were still here. I thought you left.

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It came out 35 years ago, maybe even longer than that, and directed by Ridley Scott, and we love it. So we just decided to dive in. I'm going to make it up to you the week after because we're doing a huge movie the week after. So there you go. Last episode of Celtic City is going to be on HBO 9 p.m. ET. That's it. Nine episodes and we're done.

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Coming up, the last edition of Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal. We're going to talk Super Bowl. We're going to talk conference finals. It's all next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets.

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Yeah, Romo, I thought, that was about as good as he's been in a few years. I thought he was all over the game, spotting stuff, spelling stuff out, telling us what was going to happen. With the Buffalo piece, the defense had a couple injuries, and it was pretty... I don't want to say flimsy, but it was, it was okay. Never like a great defense to begin with.

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They reminded me a little of what happened to Washington today. Washington probably were lost anyway, but when it came out over the weekend that they were losing their run, stopping defensive tackle.

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You can kind of pass the point and overturn. And it felt like they're secondary. I just didn't trust the people that had that poor Benford got two concussions and A week, it looks like.

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We did this live on YouTube, which you can follow if you want to, on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Please subscribe. We are going to be breaking down the two games today and... What's coming up in the Super Bowl. And I have a very action-packed parent corner for you. So it's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are on YouTube.

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And it was like the first series. Yeah. Yeah. But you have these things where you've already decided mentally where you're going in a game. And it's already like, if you're taking Washington, it's a pretty flimsy case. It's like, they're not going to turn the ball over. Jaden Daniels is going to go up a level. He's going to be able to match Philly and Hertz is going to kind of suck.

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Like that was the case. The other case was Philly's going to run all over them. Washington's not going to run out turnovers and Philly's going to blow them out. You can see the two cases. It was like, ah, I like the Washington case more. So I took that one. And then you find out their run stuffers done well. When I didn't really like the run defense to begin with.

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And it's like a 15 yard difference when he's out and when he's like, Oh, this isn't a great sign. But yeah, I mean, we'll talk about that game later, but Philly was also great. The Buffalo thing, this might've been their best chance. Cause I'll say this. I still think Baltimore might've been the best team from a talent standpoint.

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And I watched in this game, I guarantee like the Ravens, the Ravens fan watching this game today, you had to, I was texting Mallory about it and she's like still sick. Yeah. Cause you watch what was working against the chiefs. The Ravens were better at pounding the ball, running the ball, being physical. And they had a better defense than the bills. And I'm sure they felt like shit.

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If we'd just gotten in there, we could have beaten that team. but they didn't.

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Does it seem like football is just now about The turnover battle who wins, how you did on fourth and one and fourth and two, because there's so many of them now and the variance of those is huge. And did you just avoid having a massive fuck up? And it seems like in a game like this in Buffalo, all season was kind of pulling off games like this and their luck finally ran out today.

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And I know the Buffalo fans last week were pissed because everyone was dwelling on how Baltimore blew the game. And they're like, well, we also won the game. We didn't mess up. We didn't make mistakes. This game, they made some mistakes.

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It's a point and a half. That's stupid. The line was too low. I think if it was Chiefs by three, it was a different thought process. But the one and a half, how can you not... we did, we did this last year. You had the Ravens too last year, right?

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And the AFC title game. And that, that was my never again moment. I was just like, as long as they're in a half. Yeah. Yeah. As long as the chiefs are the chiefs, it's just not worth it. Cause they're going to figure this out year after year. So, um, on the plus side for Alan, before we get to some of the negative stuff, That pass he threw to Matt Collins before halftime was fantastic.

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I don't... The list of QBs who can hit that one with the speed and the accuracy that he hit is not... It's basically him and Drake May.

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You're serious. It was him, Drake May, a couple others. But he hit that one. He also had that big drive to... you know, give them the lead in the third quarter. He had the other comeback drive when it was 29, 22, he brought them down again and they scored. And I was thinking like, cause I don't, I don't, I don't blame this loss on Alan in any respect.

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He's in that zone now that I'm not sure you want to be in as a great athlete. And I would call it the Tommy Hearns zone where he, You're awesome, you're memorable, you're a generational talent, and yet you're the other guy in the sports movie over and over again. How do you get out of that? How do you snap out of that? Hearns was in all these great sports moments, and he lost most of them.

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But he was still great. He's one of the best boxers I've ever seen in my life. He was a 101. Nobody liked him. Six foot one, 147. Crazy punchy power. He fought everybody. And yet his legacy was like, he lost the Leonard fight. He lost the Hager fight.

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I think Lamar is a little bit of a different case because he's kind of come up short in these big moments. Allen's had these moments. So he's Roberto Duran? Who's Lamar? Drake May. No. Who is Lamar? I feel like Lamar's story hasn't... I'll answer that next year. I'm not quite ready to label him.

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It's tougher. What boxer didn't come through every time it mattered? I don't know who that is. The point with Josh is they've lost games where he was really good in the game. I thought he was really good in the game today.

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You know, if you're a Bills fan, you're like, man, Josh has to do more. That's not why he lost.

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I thought the play calling was atrocious. I thought the OC, I just don't understand some of those third and short, fourth and short. It felt like anytime they play action, they had guys all over the place. Mm-hmm.

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Yeah. Sometimes the toss is too soft. Right. That one kind of whipped it to the point that Cook might have, like, whatever.

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We've had a real resurgence with good running backs. This position that everybody thought didn't matter, and then you look around, it's like Barkley and Jameer Gibbs and Cook and gone down the line. It seems like it's more important than it used to be. Back to the Al and Tommy Hearns thing for a second. The sad shot at the end when the team's running out the clock.

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Cousin Sal is here taping the BS podcast after another magical NFL playoff game. Sal, I've had the worst weekend, and I can't wait to talk to you about it. This game reinvigorated me. It poured a Red Bull and a coffee and a giant line of cocaine into my body. I am ready for this podcast, baby.

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And then cut to the guy losing QB just sitting on the bench with that deer in the headlights look. It's a tough one. You don't want that to be legacy. In a weird way, from a career move standpoint, I actually think he gains human interest stature. Because now he's come so close. And he just can't get over this. Next year's Chiefs-Bills game is even more interesting.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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This year's game was so interesting. Kyle Brandt did a Rocky IV mountain parody game. With him as Sly and Mahomes as Drago. And I don't even know what next year's version of that is.

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Well, and then there's the Buffalo piece of it too, right? So it's always lingering with the Bills game. Like even it's 29-28. They had just scored a touchdown. They have all this momentum and there's Bass. And I'm sitting there going, I've watched Bass miss this. Like you're watching the PAT intently. It's like, it's the Bills. I've seen Bass miss this. I'm not positive this is going through.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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I'm thinking about Casey minus one and a half, minus one. And he made it. But the baggage of the Bills is another thing. There's some franchises like the Lions, that playoff loss they had two weeks ago. Or last week. Last week. It was last week. Yeah. It feels like January has been 75 days. Yeah. That playoff loss they had, they haven't had a lot of those because they're never in the playoffs.

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Meanwhile, the Bills have had, you know, it feels like a hundred of these.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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I think it's a hard ask though, Sal. I know. Because you look around the AFC and there's just a bunch of teams that feel like they're poised to maybe jump up a level or teams that had bad luck in 24. What are the Texans going to look like next year? You know, even in their own division, what could the jets be better next year?

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If they, if Aaron Glenn turns out to be a good coach, could the Patriots be next year's Washington? Keep my fingers crossed. Could the chargers make a jump up? Could the Broncos like you go on down and it's just, I don't, I think the AFC is just going to be better next year. And I can't wait to pick all the over unders correctly with you again. You're going to do a good job.

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Well, you know, they lose Rasheed Rice. before the season. He's just a non-factor. This guy who seemed like he was going to be Mahomes' number one target. They're able to patch together. Smith-Schuster was so bad in the preseason for the Pats. It was like, can anyone take this guy from us? And then he's making big plays today. Hopkins, who really didn't do that much today.

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Kelsey, who looked like he was 55, but then Worthy becomes the key guy. This number one pick that they really shrewdly traded up for. Their drafts, The way that they've nailed the drafts, this is the difference between them and what happened in the second part of the Pats dynasty in the late 2010s when they just started missing drafts. The Chiefs are getting Karlaftis. They're getting McDuffie.

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They're getting Worthy. Over and over again, they're nailing guys who are playing big roles in these playoff games. And that's how the Pats, that's why it ended. The 16, 17, 18 drafts, they just weren't getting people and that was it.

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who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers.

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32 to 22, I think. Yeah, they ran 32. Oh, 32, 34 attempts. 34 passes, 32 carries. Yeah. And the Chiefs were 35 carries, 26 passes. Did some really, did people look at this box score like 75 years from now, assuming the earth hasn't melted yet and be like, whoa, that game, that seemed pretty close. Right. Travis Kelsey. Well, he did nothing. What did the bills went by?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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Oh, well, then Hollywood Brown had that huge brain fart on the, on the play when he was open and didn't realize he was standing out of bounds. Right. That's another thing with the Chiefs. Hollywood Brown was supposed to be their big. Right. You know, this big guy that helped them out.

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They keep finding little things around the fringes, like the kick returner. Made a couple big plays today. You know, these guys, they are always able to locate them. And it's really its own skill because that's the biggest way you can...

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Well, don't you think part of it is everybody and their brother had the Kelsey over?

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I think that was that and Dallas Goddard were the two. Dallas Goddard hit his, but those two seemed like they were the... They gave everyone free Barkley money and then they're like, no, no, no.

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So one other thing. So we'll be talking about the Chiefs going for the three-peat. And I was going through looking who's three-peated in the last 50 years, which is half a century. That's a long time. Jordan's Bulls twice. The Jacoby Lakers. The late 90s Yankees. The Canadiens. Four in a row in the 70s. And then the Islanders four in a row in the 80s. And that's really it.

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Unless you want to count the Comets in the first four years of WNBA. This three-peat thing. especially in the age of parody, the Pats never did it.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

186.434

Yeah. So there's going to be a lot of stuff over the next two weeks about Chiefs Eagles. We had this already. The Chiefs are back. Come on. Here's where I've landed. And I feel like I've been here for most of my life, but really, especially as I get older, I really like true greatness. Like, I really appreciate this Chiefs team. I bet on them. I really wanted them to cover the bet, obviously.

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And the Steelers. It was the Eagles game. And the Niners. It was the Nick Foles, Doug Peterson game.

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We didn't do a three-peat in a game where Brady threw for over 500 yards.

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Like, think about that. That was how we didn't get it. But this is fucking hard. And you have these games where it's like they tipped our pass to the wide open guy on a fourth down. We missed the two point where the guy was, his foot was out of bounds. We missed the field goal at the end of the first half and we needed those. There's so many things to get that right for three years in a row.

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In a league with a salary cap, it feels impossible. Mahomes is great, but it's not like Mahomes was like... throw everyone on my back. I'm going to carry us all through the season. I don't even think he was one of the three best QBs this year. But he's Mahomes.

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1956.513

Yeah, it's an interesting one. Like my dad really doesn't like when the Chiefs do well because he wants the Pats to be better historically than the Chiefs. My thing is like whatever the Pats did, that's what they did. The Chiefs belong to this different generation. And if the Chiefs win three in a row, it doesn't diminish what the Pats did.

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But I think other Pats fans are like, really need the Chiefs to lose, need the Bills to come through. It depends on your perspective on it. I personally was more, I'm probably leaning more toward it would be cool if the Bills never won and we were like the last good AFC East team. But I'm more spiteful.

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Yeah. That's pretty specific. If the Bills never get one and then now with Vrabel and Drake May and $130 million in cap space and whoever we get number four and all of a sudden we can try to take the AFCs from him. I'm in that mindset.

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So much is left for him to do that. Brady won seven. Brady beat Mahomes twice. Brady had the Atlanta game, which is the greatest feat probably any quarterback's pulled off in a game. There's a long way to go.

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But I also really like the fact that every once in a while in sports, you have this measuring stick, not just for the sport, but for all the sports, right? Like, I hated the Yankees in the late 80s, you know, late 90s. I hated that team. But I respected the shit out of them. When Arizona beat them in 2001, it was like, this is momentous. Wait, the Pats were able to get that in the mid-2010s.

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I wrote down, Daniels kept trying to throw on a Superman cape and his teammates kept pulling it off. That's my half of my take of the game. The other take is the Eagles are really talented and just had more talent all over the place and actually played really well. I thought Hurts was good. They used A.J. Brown correctly. Barkley was incredible. Their defense made a couple mistakes.

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2172.259

You know, we cut with those yet another punch fumble play a couple stops when they needed it. There's a different version of this game without a couple of the turnovers that I think would have been really fun to watch if it was the Washington with, within a score with 10 minutes left with the ball. But instead it became a, an absolute blowout.

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I, I don't feel terrible about picking Washington, but you knew in the first quarter it was a bad pick.

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Yeah, it was like Dan Quinn ran out of plays. I was really surprised they went for it. I know the book probably said it was a wash, take the points, all that stuff. But the longer they're on the field, the longer the Eagles' offense isn't on the field. Right.

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2258.056

Barkley gets it. De'Ami Brown has the punch fumble. Eagles score again. Washington's about to punt. I thought it was the most obvious. I swear. I'm not just saying this. I was watching the line. Cause I was like, this is the most obvious fake punt situation I've ever seen. Cause they know if they're putting it back. And I'm watching it.

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2277.781

And I was watching the whole play develop and I'm like, Oh, they're doing it. Like as it was happening, it was in the Eagles were completely blindsided, which I didn't really understand. But then they ended up settling for, I thought they were, they only had one guy to cover two guys.

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And Philly beat them with Foles and Peterson. It was like, this feels momentous. I think you need teams like that. When the Warriors lost in 2019, you need teams every once in a while that are truly great. And then you see how everyone measures up. And they did it again. I don't know when this stops. Of course you do.

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Yeah, I wrote down it was 14-6. Washington had run 30 plays and Philly had won seven. And Washington was losing by eight. Yeah. And then Elliott missed the field goal. Right. McLaurin scores. It's 14-12, and Washington goes for two, which I didn't understand at all. I don't understand how you're not going for the fourth and three, but then you're going for the two. It's second quarter.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

2334.836

Who cares if it's 14-13? So they don't get that, and then you start doing the math. 14-12. Uh-oh, this is going to be a two-score game soon. Um, and then Philly made a couple of big plays. Like AJ Brown had that big fourth and five catch. I thought Hertz was good.

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Like if, if Hertz had shown what he showed today in previous games, I probably would have taken Philly, but I didn't, we hadn't seen it.

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20 and 12, under two minutes left, and the guy fumbles the kickoff and gives Philly the ball back. Now it's 27-12. It's 20-12, minute 44. I feel like that could have gone down, gotten a field goal, and it's 20-15 halftime. Right. Instead, it's 27-15 halftime. And then Philly gets the ball and they stop them top of the third quarter. But then Washington just kind of flamed out.

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They got the three and out and then Philly got the touchdown. That was that. And then right when it seemed like Philly or Washington might be able to drive down and get the super fun cover. Eckler fumbled. Right. And that was that. I thought Daniels was a winner in the game regardless. I thought he was really, really good.

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And a couple of... The fact that they put that team together with duct tape kind of got exposed. Oh, yeah. Great season for them, though.

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Four straight road games. Yeah. They lose their best guard and they lose their run stuff for going into Philly. And yet, I kind of needed a seat from Philly. I wasn't positive they had it. Like, just in general. Like, I... You know, were they going to do weird shit?

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Well, then they have this weird center situation where one guy's got the knee brace and the other guy has a bad back. And Brady kept talking about it because I think he knows how important the center is because he played QB. That never really mattered.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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I hate that we have to say tush push. My God. So do we need to ban this play? Or is it just not going to be until somebody breaks their back in a tush push and then they're like, we have to stop this. Somebody was seriously hurt.

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So would you get rid of it? Because Buffalo tried a couple times and it didn't work.

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Eagles big picture. Do you feel better about them than you did a week ago? Or do you feel like Washington outkicked its coverage and gave a valiant underdog effort? But this is what happens. This is the March Madness team that made the final four. Now they're playing UNLV in 1990 and it's Larry Johnson and Stacey Ogman. They're going, oh, all right, this is running out now. I like that.

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Well, Saquon, who's, if they win the Super Bowl, I think will go down as the most popular Philly athlete. Just moving into that, basically taking the Bryce Harper spot, but in the pantheon of guys that the Philly fans love. He was 15 for 118 in three TDs today. The touchdown was spectacular, the first one. Last week, he was 26 for 205. So in the two games, he's 41 for 323 with five touchdowns.

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And it's like, you remember in the late 90s when Terrell Davis was just ripping off these crazy postseasons. With the stats, you go back and you look and you're like, holy shit. That's why he made the Hall of Fame for those two years. And this feels like a very Terrell Davis-y postseason.

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His rookie season, I think I said to you on this podcast that I thought he was the best running back I've ever seen. And we fought about it. And then it became a clip that got... No, we just argued about it. I was like, this is the best running back I've ever seen. I'll send out the... It's somewhere on Twitter. And we cut a social clip about it.

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And then when he hurt his knee and then he was in the Giants and it became one of those like, oh my God. That was one of my worst takes. But now I think I'm back in it with the take. Like what running backs that you've seen in your life I guess the one thing with him, the pass catching, like he even dropped the one today. The pass catching is a little iffy with him.

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I still have Peyton as the best running back I've ever seen.

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Yeah, Terrell Davis is in there. I still think for one game, Emmitt has to be discussed seriously. If it's like 22 degrees outside and I need a running back who will rush the ball 35 times today, who's your pick? I'd probably take Emmitt. So I guess it would depend. Terrell is still the most dominant, um, running back on a good team. I've seen just felt like it was six yards.

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Every time Peyton was the best all around, just special running back. Uh, but Barkley's wait, it's, it's, it's a little video game issue with him.

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Could he get to 2,500 for the regular season playoffs combined? Oh, I think so. Yeah. That's in there, right?

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Oh, shit. I forgot that they played. What did he have in the Green Bay game? Oh, 25 for 119. Yeah, so he's been over 100 in the three games.

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So who's your number one running back ever? Is it TD? Well, I don't know.

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I mean, he wasn't on, I promise you, he wasn't on on the East Coast more than twice a year for his entire prime. But you always, he, the clips are amazing. The NFL film stuff was amazing. And then the way everyone talked about how he's the best blocking running back ever. He's the best pass guy. Like he checked all these boxes that nobody in that era was like that.

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Tomlinson hit some of that stuff too, but I was, the Peyton stuff is the most fun NFL films to me other than Barry Sanders. For sure.

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2906.641

Well, my Barry Sanders take, I've done this before, but my Barry Sanders take is probably in your wheelhouse. Yeah. I'm like in the, probably the minority, but I would rather have Emmitt Smith than Barry Sanders. Yeah. I'd rather have the four, five, six yards of pop than the guy who every once in a while can run for 70. Yeah. but was always looking to break the big play.

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Yeah, that Buffalo doesn't get the two point. And Casey gets the ball down one fourth quarter and you're just going, Mahomes is taking this down. He's going to score. He's going to get the two point and they're going to be up seven. I was already mentally in the stage of if Buffalo then gets the ball and scores the TD, will they go for one or two? Like the Chiefs hadn't even done anything yet.

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So we have Jalen Hurts in the second Super Bowl, which is twice as many appearances as

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2964.158

We have Nick Sirianni in the Super Bowl where it looked like he was going to get fired in September or early October. And since then, I think they've lost once. against Andy Reid, who is now 28 and 16 in the playoffs in his sixth Super Bowl. And starting to really legitimately breathe down Belichick's neck. And his breath smells like barbecue. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+.

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Now it's back. Bondi 9 is the best one they've had. Guess the lines. You already won. You won your first title. I got to say... Um, my team has noticed a lot of, a lot of talk with this win and now we're, we're rededicated for next season.

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And I, I just sheepishly accepted my trophy and just kept my head down. My fans shouldn't have done that. You won once and you're talking a lot of shit. So next year it's on baby.

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3113.834

Well, you know what's really annoying? The NBA has their trade deadline the Thursday of Super Bowl week. Oh, really? When it should either be this week or next week. Just for content, the NBA just shoots themselves in the foot over and over again. I've never seen anything like it. Why would you have your trade deadline during Super Bowl week? It's so fucking stupid.

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314.819

You just knew they were going to go down and do it. I mean, the Mahomes thing, just big picture. This is now five Super Bowl appearances before age 30. He's 20 and three in the playoffs. He's beaten Josh Allen, who I think along with Burrow, but I think Allen over Burrow and probably over Lamar, Allen's his number one rival. He's beaten him four times in a row now in the playoffs.

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3141.609

I don't understand it. By Thursday, everyone is either at the Super Bowl or talking about the Super Bowl. I just don't get it. I don't understand how they screw up shit like this.

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3153.375

You think Jimmy Butler's going to the Dodgers?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3196.967

Why did the football scores get so weird? We never had 29 versus 29-29 in the fourth quarter. Never happened our entire childhood. Like everything's weird. The lines are weird. Everything's weird.

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3225.204

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What's everything up? Tell me. Let's talk about it.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3258.876

For our fans on YouTube. Yeah. On the YouTubes. Barkley over under. Can I guess somebody's? Yeah, do it. Barkley over under. I'm going to say 85 and a half. No.

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3296.508

Why was that a bad guess? 114 is a lot for the Super Bowl. That means you're probably winning if you rush for 114.

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3306.38

Plus, the Chiefs can kind of try to jam the line and make him Florida Devonta Smith. I dare you. I'm betting the under. Okay. Do they have Mahomes rushing attempts yet? Because that's my favorite bet. Oh, okay. You got to be careful. He had 11 rushes today. That bet hits every single time. Mahomes in the playoffs first. rushing attempts is the safest prop in sports.

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3333.457

Oh, wait. Oh, yeah, I do see it. Okay. What do you think? I think they jack it up to like five and a half because it keeps hitting.

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3351.698

He takes gigantic... The nail-down factor kills the rushing yard thing. They got to figure that out. But you get three free. We didn't talk about that moment today when the official was slapping the... slap it in Washington with the newspaper because they kept jumping off sides. And he's like, if this happens one more time, we're awarding a score to Philadelphia.

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So what would have happened from a gambling standpoint? Who gets the score? Oh, right, right, right. We were trying to figure that out. Is there a way we could have bet on this? Could we bet on this at the Super Bowl? No player on Philly scores a touchdown. Yeah, the scolding score.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3396.362

I didn't even know that was... Not even close. I feel like they made that up.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

340.025

And he just feels like it feels like that Brady versus Mahomes, that first playoff game that the first playoff loss Mahomes had. Brady beats him. And then it's like he just handed a torch to him. And he's like, all right, go ahead, take it. And now it just feels like the Chiefs became the Pats.

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3430.629

I think the ball wasn't hitting the hash mark and the chain was actually on the hash mark. So they knew it, just missed it.

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3449.845

Wow. You're a put a chip in the ball guy. Well, what are we doing? The chain. Do you get along with the, make the goalpost hires guys? Do you guys have meetings together or you're like rival gangs? There's a big meeting.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3467.478

It's a little stupid. So what do we have for the over under? Can I guess that one?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3482.263

You know what? I'll give you a win for this week. I'll give you that win for that. I got one.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3490.285

I mean, over by 15, 20 points, usually there was a lot of dialogue about, well, Eagles, Washington, each team only gets seven possessions. There'll be these slow games. It's like, nope, that's wrong. And then KC Buffalo, they kept moving the ball up and down the field.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3520.106

So for a super bowl rematch, there's not a lot of those either. Pat's giants was probably the most famous one of this century, but we've had some other ones when we were growing up Steelers, Cowboys. was like an exciting rematch. I think, I get the feeling people now don't like rematches as much. Right. Like the KC Philly, we've already done this. I wrote it in the Jalen Hurts thing.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3543.018

People like to complain. Or the Mahomes thing. Yeah, like Buffalo or Washington being in there would have been content fodder. Right. But I think this is a really good game.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3574.932

My son who follows football on TikTok and through YouTube shorts, he watched most of the second half with me. And at one point he turned to me and said, dad, isn't every football season the same? Like the Bills come super close and then they lose. The Chiefs make the Super Bowl. They play somebody from the other team. It seems good. Then the Chiefs win. And I was like, nope. Nope. You're wrong.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3597.728

I'm going to lie to you right now. No. The answer is no. That's not true at all, son. Every season is way different. There's no chip in the ball. Of course, it's the same. Yeah. Now, Jaden Daniels, you never know, son. Right. Jaden Daniels last week in Detroit. You shocked the world, son.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

36.959

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3632.275

My son, I always impress my son by predicting what plays are going to happen. I've been playing a lot of Madden lately. I'm like, oh, empty back. I think he's going to, and half the time, that's how predictable some of these plays are though. I think it's actually a bad sign if I'm on my couch and I can figure out where the ball's going. half the time.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3651.73

Especially on those swing screen passes you can kind of see. Do you do that when you're watching the games? Do you try to predict what they're going to do? Sure.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3676.259

The one I got wrong, I would have bet my life on, it was before the Samuel touchdown when Buffalo tied it. Yeah. It was like third and goal from the five. I would have bet my life that Allen was going to do the QB draw on that play. Take off. Yeah. I just think it's been so obvious. They've been relying on it to the point that I think even they realize they probably can't do it.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3695.747

Can I ask you when the shotgun from the one started? Listen, you know my least favorite plays are fourth and goal or fourth and short, fourth and one. The QB not over the center. To me, you're just throwing away an advantage.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3721.949

It's the cousin of, it's a tie NBA game with under 10 seconds left and they do the ISO where then the guy does a step back three to win the game. But it was a tie game. It's like, we just need a basket. You don't need to do your step back 27 footer. Yeah. Um, same thing for the shotgun snap. I don't understand it. I don't know.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3741.92

I also don't understand why my homes doesn't sneak, which we always talk about. Right. Cause he got hurt that one time, like five years ago, like they can't sneak them anymore. And it was kind of like, they can't, he can't just like lean down and burrow in and go for half a yard.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3767.776

It's really impressive. We have two weeks to talk about the Super Bowl on your podcast, on my podcast. People are going to be in New Orleans, a whole bunch of things. You have a new Cowboys coach. Oh, we could skip. We can go right to parent corner, right? We don't have to talk about this. You hired Marty Schottenheimer's son, Brian. They are related. I had a feeling.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3791.641

I wouldn't say Brian was a red hot coaching candidate. Mm-hmm. which might be a good thing or a bad thing. He's the kind of guy I would have expected. Oh, the Patriots have hired Brian Schottenheimer as the QB coach for Drake man, but like good hire veteran. He's your head coach. Yeah. I don't understand it. Why didn't you hire Cliff Kingsbury?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3810.695

At least he's like from Texas and he's young and you could make excuses for the first job. It's like, maybe you didn't get along with Kyler Murray. Like I don't understand Brian Schottenheimer at all.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3854.081

No, look at the Washington fans this year.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

388.956

Well, you have on the flip side, Buffalo, Alan comes out first drive. He throws two picks that get dropped. Right. Alan fumbles twice, pulls back. Both of them recovers. Both of them, including on that fourth and one, I did have a moment where I thought to myself, maybe this doesn't happen. Cause I remember in the Pats Eagles Superbowl, uh, which I sadly watched with nephew Kyle, um,

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3899.375

What's good. Like, is it possible he doesn't have as much money anymore because he paid Mike McCarthy to the last minute of the contract and then just let it expire. And then he's obviously trying to save money with this coaching hire. Really weird. He's an actor. There are better versions of this guy out there. Maybe the landman thing. I think he said that.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3927.352

That's just nonsense. Well, it was an interesting one because the Jets interviewed, I think, 230 possibilities for their head coach. And I don't even think he cracked that list. And they were interviewing people that you didn't even know were still professionally working.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3954.426

Does the interview start like, Brian, what went wrong with your career? Why are you still here, Brian? Why did it peak five years ago? Conversely, I'm on an absolute high with the Patriots again. Why not? Vrabel's putting together this awesome coaching staff that's like the complete opposite of what we had last year. We have all these overqualified. We have Doug Marone.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

3977.446

Doug Marone almost beat the Pats in a round three playoff game five years ago. He was a good head coach. I'm really pumped. I really feel like, I think the Washington thing has given all the Pats fans so much energy that it's like, they did this in a year. They just, they hit the quarterback, they did all that. So now I'm going to be more into this NFL draft than I was last year.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4015.209

He even took a win today, I felt like. I thought he was, you know, he maybe a couple of passes were a little low. But for the most part, like his poise and the way he kind of kept them at that two point conversion he had was great. I just thought he still seems very, very cool.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4038.544

Well, the cool thing for us, selfishly, just like for the Sundays where we're trying to watch all these games at once, we just want as many fun QBs as we can get. And now it seems like at least May and Daniels are two more to the list. Hopefully, Caleb can get there. Hopefully, Herbert will take some sort of leap. Hopefully, the new Jacksonville coach will resuscitate Lawrence.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4061.755

We might get into a situation where half of the teams have a fun QB. Wouldn't that be something?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4081.658

Well, the one thing we know is we're always going to have bad owners and Oh, yeah. Bad coaches.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4086.706

By the way, the Celtics, here's a little tidbit. The Celtics, it was the first round of the buyers that they had to cut down all the prospective buyers. And like, I don't know, five people made the first round, four or five people. One of the people was the Eagles owner. Really? Jeffrey Lurie, who's apparently from Massachusetts.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4110.51

So he was... Because there's been a couple like, hmm, I wonder who these guys are. And there was a couple I couldn't figure out, but that's one that... Do you like that? I mean, that happened with your Red Sox too, right? Isn't there like a whole... So the precedent is Josh Harris owned the Sixers and then bought Washington's football team. The Crockies owned the Nuggets and they owned the Rams.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

413.448

Even did the bitter end. They've all, I don't really remember what the score was, but the Pats did get the ball with like a little over two minutes left and they're on like the 20. And we were all like, we're winning this. And then when Brady got stripped, it was, it was so shocking. It was like, Oh my God, somebody beat us. Um, that's, there was a moment in this game.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4135.957

So there's been a couple of NBA, NFL things. But I mean, I always thought the Eagles were one of the best run... Football teams, right? So if he bought the Celtics, that's a decent outcome. There's a couple of decent outcomes in this.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4157.776

Yeah, and you're way more likely to have a mediocre to bad coach and a bad owner. All right, anything else before we hit parent corner? Did you hit the sad point of the season yet? Oh, yeah. You're just going to wrestling tournaments on a Saturday and thinking about how you have no games.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4195.582

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into. it makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them, if I'm excited to do that.

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Alcohol available only in select markets. Parent corner. You go first.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

432.516

It w it was when Buffalo was driving, wondering if they were going to go for two or not and thinking like, Oh, what happens if like they go for two, they get it. And Casey, just something weird happens and all of a sudden they're punting and they're down one and Buffalo has a chance to just run out the clock on them. But that's the thing. Casey's avoided this. They say, what'd they say?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4479.884

So 10 and 11, Harrison's 11. Yeah. Those are really emotional ages for boys sports. There's a lot more crying than I was ever prepared for, like in the baseball and the basketball, like kids really melt down.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4495.645

It made me think how funny it would be if, like, we did this as adults. Like, if it was, like, in the game today. Like, Don Cacade drops the pass. He's just sobbing on the sidelines. When did they grow out of that? At age 12?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4530.616

Yeah. Cause I, I was visiting our cousin Jimmy yesterday. Yeah. Uh, in South Bay and, uh, I called you to see if you were around and I just heard whistles in the background. And I'm like, oh, I forgot. On Saturday, you just drive around to different sporting events. Yeah, that was it. My parent corner. So my wife went away for a couple of days with some friends. She still lives here.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4555.258

It's not a Michelle Obama thing. And I was left alone with me and Ben and the dog.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4563.843

Murph, who if you've noticed has not been really on parent corner all year. Cause he's four, like he really is blossomed into a great dog, mature, no accidents. We have no gates in any of the rooms in the house, anything like that. Well, um, my son had, uh, had a friend over and they made a cake and, uh, it was a female friend. And, um, he left the, the, you know, there's the frosting left.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4598.998

I think he left the frosting on the counter, but maybe not enough distance for Murph not to get it. So I come home on, on Thursday and in the, in the TV room There's just the remnants of something. And it's like white. It almost looks like somebody spilled cocaine powder. And I'm like, what is that? I'm smelling it. And it just smells like icing. And I'm like, oh my God, Ben.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4623.52

So now I'm on Murph watch. Nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. And then Saturday morning, the apocalypse. I noticed him sneak away a couple of times. Usually he's always where I am. Right. If I'm home. And I noticed him sneak away a couple of times. Like, that's where Murph, where are you going? He's like, I'll be right back. It was a poopocalypse.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4646.261

My office that I'm in right now, multiple shits. I can smell it. Our living room, which we had a gate so that nobody could go in there. That was a dog for months and months. And finally, we don't need the gate. It's ugly. Murph never goes in there. Double shit on the rug in there. What was the other place? Oh, and then the TV room. like ruin the rug that like, so like three different shits.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4672.906

Um, and I had already closed the doors for it. So anyway, I, we have this machine that I would recommend anybody as a dog who likes to shit in their house, this water tank machine where you can scrub it and it picks the shit up. And I saved two of the rugs, but I haven't saved the third one. And, uh, and he ruined it.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4693.006

And so last night I was like, I, so I didn't have a good night's sleep Friday night. And I'm like, last night, I'm like that. Hopefully the shit's done. I lock all the doors. He's locked in, in our bedroom. There's no rug for him to pee on. The bathroom doors close or poop on bathroom doors closed. There's nothing he can get to. And I'm like, now I can just get a good night's sleep.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4712.753

Got the pod tonight with the two games. Like, I just want to be like rested and prepared. Fall asleep at one o'clock. Like 245, I just hear him circling around in the room, which means he has to go. So bring him down. It's pouring rain. Goes out. He does whatever. Comes back. Towel him off. Hour and a half later, we repeat it again. 5.45, let's do it a third time.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4739.075

And now I'm up and I've been up since 5.45. So I don't know what I look like, but three shits. And I haven't told my wife because she's away. And so I guess this is, if she hears this, this is how she's going to find out.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4753.738

Well, did you reprimand your son or no? Oh, he's like, it wasn't my fault. He shouldn't have jumped on the counter. I'm like, no, it's 100% your fault. If you leave something on the counter that like if you left poison on the counter and he ate it and he died, is that his fault or yours? He's a dog. He has an IQ of 20. So I've been mad at him all weekend. Right.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4774.706

And just like, I've never picked up this many shits. So it was like he had never shit in the house. And then it was like a year and a half of shit saved up. Jesus. Just dropping them everywhere. So anyway, Murph's back. What did they make? A wedding cake? What the fuck? How much ice did he eat? I don't understand. And then I was like, do I have to take him to the vet today? Yeah.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4795.198

And I'm like, I'm not fucking taking him to the vet. The games are about to come on. If he dies, he dies. I was like, it was like Drago. Creed. If he dies, he dies. But it was just... And I actually felt bad for him because last night I was like, I'm not even bringing him in. Just stay outside for two hours. And then I kind of forgot about him. I was watching a movie for Rewatchables.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4818.111

And then I remember I heard him barking. I came back down. I brought him in. And he was like so emotionally destroyed. He's like, you left me out there. I didn't think you were going to come get me. So anyway, it's been a rollercoaster weekend. And I've had, I think, three hours of sleep. Wow. Can I say something? The lesson is don't get a dog.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4856.946

It's almost like a cheating spouse where it's like, I'll be right back. I just got to go to the bathroom. And then they're on a phone call in the closet.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4865.151

Oh, the dog. The dog. Yeah, yeah. No, he's like, I'll be right back. Just going to go get some water. And it's like, what rug haven't I shit on yet? So anyway, I'm looking at our chat. What are they saying? People... Chris Schemmer says, I love how Bill still contends he's never done blow. I have never done cocaine. I swear on my kids. I'm not even positive I've been in the same room with it.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4894.593

I'm like very virginal with cocaine. I'm not going to ask you if you've done it.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4915.406

Yeah. So anyway, Murph ruined my weekend. Yeah. And it looked like the two bets were going to ruin my weekend. And then the Chiefs came through, which brings us full circle. There we go. Can always count on the Kansas City Chiefs to save your weekend. Especially when they're the second team. I thought Romo was outstanding today. I want to mention that as well. Really good.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

493.303

Right. He didn't have an incredible game. He ran for two touchdowns. He only threw for one. Yeah. The stats, the team stats were pretty even.

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4933.486

I really thought he did a great job. Romo, we were in rough shape with him a couple of years ago. It just didn't seem like he was putting in the work, but it feels like he is.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4949.072

I think he did cocaine. That's it for, that's it for parent corner. That's it. So next time I see you will be next Sunday. We're going to be doing our annual Super Bowl props podcast.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4968.975

It's amazing. We always used to have to wait, right? Until the second week.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4977.66

You know we had that Pacers bet? Oh, yeah. Tell everybody what that is. Tell me. No, we did. Well, it's Pacers over... Minnesota under, Sacramento under. We did like four weeks ago. Now it seems like Sacramento might screw us because we need them to be under 42 inch. I think the Pacers... are about to make a little run here. Yeah.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

4998.188

I'm just talking about from a gambling standpoint next couple weeks. I like when I'm, they have other guys back. I just think there's something interesting about them that I've been monitoring. What did we get? A lot of the teams in each conference, that's, and I think Golden State's on the flip side.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5010.853

I think, did you see this, that Golden State is 1-20 after the third quarter when they don't have a lead? Right. To me, Golden State, if they don't make a trade, like this is, this season's a punt. Yeah.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5024.898

Oh, we're going to hit that one. We got it at like 41.5.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5035.822

Yeah. What's their record? That doesn't matter. Yeah, no, I don't know. Their record is... 25 and 20. So 47, they'd have to go 22. 22 and 15. 22 and 15? Yeah. That's pretty good. That seems like it comes out until last week. Yeah.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5069.025

46.5 is high. So we definitely hit that one. Golden State is 41.5 now. And unless they do a desperation trade, that one might be going under. The only other one... that I think I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Lakers look good in that Celtic game. I know. And then they look good against the Warriors.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5090.111

And I'm starting to wonder if maybe they found a little something because there's a physicality to them. I wrote them off. I thought they should have traded Anthony Davis and it's only two games. I'm not zigzagging, but I'm just watching them because I saw a team in that Boston game in person that It just seemed like they were figuring out an identity that I didn't think they had.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5110.573

And then they did the same thing against Golden State. This was a tough stretch. Like this physical team.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5132.297

Yeah, they're seven games over 500. Right. And... I wasn't even considering them potentially being good until those last two games. Because they're defending way better than they did. They have enough shooters now. Gabe Vincent's giving them something. That he was not giving earlier in the season. So I don't want to plant a flag on it yet, but I might have been wrong about them.

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5169.997

No, Bronny's the best thing that happens to go into Laker games now because people want to, they want to see him, but they usually the game's over. Right. So we, I took Hench to the Laker game. We got out of there. We were out of the garage in like 30 seconds. Cause every, it was like the easiest time. Yeah. Lakers are up 20.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5186.066

Usually people are fleeing, but everybody kind of wanted to stick around. Nice. Um, everyone just wanted Hench to leave, I think. Oh, he was in rare form. Yeah. The only other one is Cleveland. I was thinking about this for next year, that team that starts out super hot. Yeah. They're ridiculous.

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52.187

Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals.

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And then around the 40 game mark, they're huge favorites in every game, but they, they relax a little bit and they lose a couple. And I, I want to remember that for next year.

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5223.601

Wow. What's crazy is the Thunder Coach is 30-1, and that guy's doing an amazing job. He lost Holmgren for the whole season, basically. Yeah.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5239.807

Joker at plus 230 for MVP on FanDuel seems like really good odds. As you know, I'm not allowed to bet. All right.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5248.95

No, but I'll tell you. Here's why. Because... First of all, it's only game 45. Second of all, there's really only two candidates right now. But Denver's a four seed now. Like you can't win the MVP unless it's either a shitty year or you're like a top three team. They're probably going to be a top three team in the West. Which puts him in play and he's having this historic offensive season.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5271.266

It's at least an argument. So that's the hedge on Shea?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5281.534

Oh, when we were telling people early. Yeah. Yeah. If you're just talking value. Yeah. It's a two-person race. There's no one else. I would be really surprised. Oh, man.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5295.103

Yeah. Everybody's triple figures. Anybody else? No, it's those two. So if you wanted to hedge it, I would hedge it with Jokic. The rookie of the year is funny because all of a sudden Ware on Miami became the favorite because he was good for two weeks. Like that's how bad. I still think Castle plus 310 is probably a little.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

531.28

Yeah, this was a weird game because Lombardi, shout out to Lombardi, always used to talk about the middle eight, the last four minutes of the first half, first four minutes of the second half. The Chiefs have the ball, and they're driving down in the last four minutes of the first half. They get that crazy worthy call that... We do this all the time.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5317.881

Yeah, and then most improved, that one always changes right around mid-February. All of a sudden, people get excited. Same for defensive player of the year. I think six man's a little more open than Pritchard being minus 170. Because he hasn't been... Just looking at those odds, Ahmed Thompson, who's been incredible, especially lately, he's 8-1.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5338.313

He's having, I think, a more impactful year than Pritchard is. You could argue Thompson's the best rocket right now.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5381.149

Are you doing content with Tate this week? Yeah. What do you want me to ask him? Is he focused yet on Charlotte trading for Curry? That was always his dream scenario. Oh, interesting.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5395.508

I don't think Golden State's ever traded Curry. But Tate's dream was Golden State was going to become mediocre. And at some point, the move was just to cash in Curry during the last stretch of his career.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5407.297

He goes back to Charlotte. First round pick? You grew up there.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

5422.489

Anyway, ask Tate. See what he thinks. All right. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal. Thanks to Saruti, even though he's not here. You can watch all of our stuff on YouTube. Please subscribe for us. And then I got a new rewatch of us coming tomorrow. So that's the podcast. Sal, congrats on the Guest Alliance title again. Good job by you. Good job by you, buddy. And good job by the Chiefs. Thanks, everybody.

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I still don't understand the rules of football, and I watch football. Neither guy had possession, and the ball touched the ground, and it just seems like that's a dead play. Nobody gets it. They should have gone back to the 20 instead of the 5. Whatever. So they score... And you start going, wow, this could be a blowout. They're up 21-10. They stop the Buffalo here at the end of the half.

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Call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year, by the way.

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They get the ball. The Chiefs at the start of the play. Well, they didn't stop them. The Bills scored, but they didn't get the two. But I'm saying before the Bills went down, it felt like the Chiefs were going to blow the game open. I got you. Yeah, yeah. Right. Buffalo comes back down. He hits Matt Collins in that touchdown. It's 21-16.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

586.832

Now, all of a sudden, the Chiefs get stopped at the top of this. So they actually lost the middle eight because then Buffalo came down and took the lead. And they still won the Chiefs somehow.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

601.471

Yeah, I thought they were going to get last possession in the first half, first possession second half. You score both times, you're up 28-10. Yeah, they did.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

634.42

No, that turned out to help Buffalo. The challenge had been overturned. I don't, you're right. They probably don't get the first half. Right. And that was the one real mistake that the chiefs made was, uh, Leaving Hollins open on that one play. Hollins ended up having two big plays. His over-under for catches was basically... I think it was one catch. It was around even.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

653.868

It was minus 130, something like that. If I'm Buffalo and I leave this game, do you leave this game going, how did we not win that game? Or do you leave that game going, we're just like... three plays short. Every time we play this team, we have the fourth, the one, the QB sneak where Alan actually gets stuffed. Wait, who knows if he actually got stuffed or not, but they call that Casey ball.

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With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally.

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You have the Kincaid play where, um, I don't know. That was the fourth and five spags caused the blitz. You knew it was coming. Alan makes a great, just to jump up and heave it toward Kincaid was great, but they had that wide shot of it. And it seemed like the ball was almost like spinning.

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It was almost like a, like a, when a baseball, when they hit like the, the pop fly, that just is like, has some weird thing to it. And Kincaid dropped it. And I'm sure he's going to take shit tomorrow, but I actually thought that seemed like a pretty tough catch. Did you think that was a drop or a catch?

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

727.898

But it's the kind of play that a D-back drops over and over again. Yeah. Like the tip play at the line or the flutter. And it's, oh, I can't believe he dropped that. But Kincaid was on offense.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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Weird. Well, so the Chiefs have the ball after the two-minute warning. The Bills don't get it. And the Bills need to get a stop. Did you think they were going to get the stop? Because I did not. And as it turns out, they had two chances to get a stop because the Bills scored. They got the first down on second down, but the guy stepped out of bounds. So now they had this fresh set of downs. Right.

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And each time the Chiefs were able to get the eight, nine plays. Conversely, Buffalo had a bunch of chances. to make a big plan of fourth and one or fourth and five, fourth and three. And there was a couple they didn't get. So I would assume that would probably be driving them crazy too.

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They did get that when they were down, what was it, seven, when they got the fourth down play in the end zone to Samuel. Which was a nice play.

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They'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Verbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I do have a new Rewatchables episode coming for you on Monday night. Can't wait for you to hear it. You can also watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. Coming up on this podcast, Cousin Sal is joining me.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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So Buffalo missed two points, right? Mm-hmm. Then they missed a fourth and short. And you would think with Allen, they would be the most devastating team in the league with any fourth and one, fourth and short. Two point. Which was, I don't know, one of the legacies of this game. It was kind of shocking not to see them get certain plays.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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I felt like the Chiefs were slightly better just because I felt like their defense... I trusted their D a little bit more to maybe get a stop when they really, really, really, really needed it. Even that, you mentioned that spag splits on the last play, that fourth and five.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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This goes back to what I was saying earlier about how fun it is to have a team like this, that we have a real history with it. You know, we root for these NFL teams and the entire team changes over in two years, you know, or you have these teams, like look at what's going to happen to the Cowboys and they haven't even made the Super Bowl, but two years from now.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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two years from now, are Dak, C.D. Lamb, and Prescott all going to be on the team? Probably not. You know, and that's usually how it plays out.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

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You're right. But in this team, same infrastructure. It's Mahomes. It's always some cast of running backs and wide receivers with Kelsey. Yeah. They always have a decent line. Chris Jones is always there. Andy Reid always is doing some funky plays that seem like they're going to work. And then Spaggs, every time they need it, seems to dial up the perfect blitz.

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The Chiefs Break Buffalo’s Heart, Philly Rolls, and Guess the SB Lines With Cousin Sal

973.224

That blitz on Allen was a great call. I was waiting for it the whole game, and it didn't seem like they could find it. Then they found it.

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the premiere on Friday night had a bunch of people that I got to talk to Joe Mazzola about the town. So exciting. Joe Mazzola, I'm making him come on the podcast. He was a, he was a really fun Hank, but, uh, but we had a really fun premiere of episode five, which was about, um, a part of the eighties with the Celtics.

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It wasn't. Well, they also, it's weird with Bridges and OG. I texted during the game because one of my favorite Rizzolo jokes is though, was Tobias Harris out there? Oh no, he was out there for the last hour. Like I always think of you anytime I'm watching a game and I'm like, oh, it's Mikhail Bridges. I forgot he was playing. It's exciting.

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And then OG, but both of those guys had these really like quarter long stretches where they might inbounds the bottom. Like, oh yeah, Bridges, there he is. They haven't figured out the same way the Celtics, I think, with White and Holiday, who can take a backseat because Tatum has the ball a lot. They'll run the place for Porzingis.

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Jalen Brown will have his first five minutes of the second quarter as my dad's just bitching in the stands the entire time about the shots. And White and Holiday have figured out how to kind of sneak in and out and get little fast break layups or get like threes in the corner. And they're always involved.

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And what I saw today and what I've seen on TV too is there's just games where Bridges and OG just aren't involved.

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They were throwing everything at Brunson. They were really disciplined.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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Well, you know, I was ready to almost leave the pod with Tatum. And then he had this really terrible stretch where I was like, this is still like the last hump for him. Because the first half of that game, his two-way game, and you saw it in the Philly game too. And I feel like it's getting better as the year goes.

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His passing, it feels like he's going to be between seven and ten assists almost every game now when he's locked in. His rebounding. And his Swiss army knife stuff that he does on D where he can guard basically everyone on the other team. I do feel like he's going up a level, but there's that still that last piece where it's like, he never has like the awesome 48 minute.

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Oh my God, he blew my doors off game. It's like three quarters of the four. And I think that's the last level for him. If you want to be on that SGA Jokic level, you've got to do it for the whole two and a half hours. And right now he's at about an hour 45. Does that sound too nitpicky?

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

118.21

So, you know, that's in my wheelhouse, but, uh, very excited for everybody to watch it. And we'll be talking about a bunch over the next, um, next few weeks. So I wanted to mention FanDuel because on Tuesday on FanDuel Sportsbook, you have the Mavs and the Lakers playing for the first time since the blockbuster trade.

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No, because sometimes when I watch him... When he's really going well, I feel like he's got all the pieces, but at this point, I think it would have happened. I think we would have had some sort of nudge where we would have some crazy stretch, you know, that all the greatest players have had. Like what SGA just had. Where SGA was just like, I'm just going to score 50 points a bunch of times now.

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And my team's just going to win every game. And it's just, that's the last. So he's like a level below. And that, you know, all the MVP ballot stuff, the MVP is basically done. It's the top two guys. But I think Tatum's, I think he's been the third best guy in the league this year. I would put him against Giannis. I would pick Tatum. I think he's had a bigger impact on a winning team.

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I know his team's been a little bit better, but he's... The durability thing is the piece with him that I just think he doesn't get credit for. He fucking plays.

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And guarding towns on the other end. There's nobody in the league doing that other than him, basically.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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So it's the first Luka revenge game of I'm sure there's going to be like 40 Luka revenge games. FanDuel is giving all customers a 50% same game parlay boost. for that matchup. So just go all in one way or the other, because the easy way to do this is be like, I'm going to take the Lakers and I'm going to take the overs for the Luca.

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That's how I felt today watching it. I just feel like he's maximized a lot of stuff that he's been working on the last couple years. And if you took this version of Tatum and you put this version in the 22 finals, I think they'd beat the Warriors. And he wasn't even close to being able to do 40% of the stuff that he could do now. I love the rebounding. I don't think he gets enough credit for that.

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And I love the durability and the fact, you know, JJ said something about this because he was talking about the Lakers. This was even before the Dallas game when he was, you know, because they're way better on defense, the Lakers. I think they're like third in defensive rate in the last 20 games. And, you know, they were even playing better before the trade.

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And somebody asked him what was different. And he's like, you know, The NBA is about just playing hard, just making sure your team plays hard every night. And I think that's a skill that Tatum, where if he's taken off a quarter in Charlotte, you really notice it because of the level of intensity that he has game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half.

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When he doesn't have, you're like, oh shit, what's wrong with Tatum? What's he doing? He's just jacking up shots. Why isn't he rebounding? Like, it's really, like, glaring. So anyway, I think he should get probably more credit for that. I don't know if there's an extra half step for him. Maybe we'll find out in the playoffs.

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1476.847

I don't think it's ever going to be as easy. Like that, for the Jokic stuff, that Jokic night-to-night, it's just easy for him to create shots for everybody. The best possible shots, right? Last night's a bad example, but for the most part, SGA is just like, he's just getting the 35. Yeah. He's just getting to 40. It doesn't matter what you're doing. He's just going to get to where his points are.

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1498.494

And I think Luka is in that category too. I don't know if Tatum's ever going to be at that level, but I think to me, he reminds me, it's a weird one. And I know I'm thinking about it probably because we just finished this nine part Celtics docuseries. But to me, he's more like a Havlicek type guy. He's this Swiss army knife that does all these different things for your team.

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1518.303

He's never the best scorer in the league. He's never the best assist guy, but he just, he's just additive. And I think that's the level that he's gotten to. So he probably reminds me of Havlicek the most, even though he's taller and, you know, he's got size, all that stuff, but just like they could play small ball center with them if they wanted.

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1534.952

He could also play point guard for them if he wanted. Yeah. Um, the other thing with the South side, I think Cornette has been playing really well and Pritchard's been up and down hazards coming back, but they're getting more of a bench than I think. And then Horford being able to only play like 18, 20 minutes, their benches is back.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

1551.904

And I think I, I wouldn't be surprised that they went on a little run here over the next, uh, next three, four weeks. Cause they haven't really had a run this season. You know, we're going to talk about that after the break. Some teams that we think might make an actual run. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a streak.

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Like, have you been, have you felt like they've had one kick-ass three-week stretch other than, like, you'd have to go back to November? I just don't remember it.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

157.477

If you're going to take the overs, go big, go like 40 plus, go 10 assists, try to stagger it. So you get this huge thing or go the other way and just assume just about everybody's going to be going on the over with Luca. So zag, Do a couple unders. Do the couple unders with the Mavs to win. Either way, 50% same game parlay boost. And remember, goes live on Tuesday. Look for it then.

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Let's take a break. And I want to talk about teams that can make an actual run. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance. With the personal price plan and bundling home and auto, it's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs.

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1649.866

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1674.028

And some of them are easy to figure out and some of them are a little harder to figure out. But the number one subplot to me, and I can't believe I'm even saying this and it makes me mad that we're in this position, but what can you do? I think the Lakers are the number one subplot to watch over the next 30 games.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

1689.081

The Denver game was so interesting last night to see like the real Luka in a Lakers game and to watch, you know, their centers, whatever. They're just double teaming Jokic. They're just going to be happy with Westbrook and those, like whoever. Fine, shoot 16 for 41 from three. We don't care. We got to take out Jokic.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

1707.179

But the thing that I really noticed that people talked about when they made the trade was just 48 minutes of Luka and LeBron or Luka or LeBron. But you always have somebody out there who just has this crazy IQ and is a really good offensive player. And I've never wavered from thinking Luka was going to be awesome on this team. I just thought it was scary last night. And if I'm in the West...

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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I think there's four teams that can win the title and we can talk about a couple of wild cards. I think the Lakers are an official wild card for me.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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What's your explanation for that? Other than just they're playing hard.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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Claim the PBT, the profit boost token. Place your bet for Tuesday's big game. Look for it in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Coming up for the first time. On Sunday this year, I think it's like year seven for us. Ryan, Marcilla, we're going to talk basketball and basketball and more basketball. And we're just sprinkling some goofier stuff as well. He's next.

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1887.625

Well, they did the same thing that that Celtics game that we both went to in L.A. where they kicked the Celtics ass. And part of it was they just were really well prepared. And they used a bunch of things against the Celtics that I'd kind of been waiting for, you know, somebody to do. Like, oh, you're going to try to force it to Porzingis? Great. That's going to throw your whole team out of whack.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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Like, keep giving the ball. And Porzingis had a good first quarter. Nobody else did. And then it's like, oh, here's the top of the second quarter. This is when Jalen tries to get his offense for six minutes. We're going to make it really hard for him. And you were just watching it going, oh, this team's got their shit together.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

1925.319

Last night against Denver, you would think, well, why doesn't everybody do that against Jokic? First of all, it's hard to do it. Second of all, it's hard to commit to it. And your guys have to be really disciplined with it. But they also have smart players. Everyone makes fun of Luka's defense, but he's still a really smart basketball player, right? LeBron...

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1943.004

I think has been noticeably better on defense for, what, a month and a half now?

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1949.785

The first month of the season? Where it was like, oh my God, he's just not playing. He's a DH now. Now he's really active. And they just have size and physicality that I think... You saw it against the Celtics. They bullied the Celtics. Now, you know, slightly different team. But when they have those... When they have Rui and LeBron and Luke all together, like those... Like 800 pounds of dudes.

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1981.659

I wrote down... You tiered us up? No, I wrote down things I like about them. And the number one thing is just always having Luka or LeBron out there. One of the two or both. I think it's just... It's just really hard to play them. You don't have a moment like you had with the Knicks today where Brunson has to sit down. It's like, all right, it's campaign time. Cross your fingers.

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2001.079

Like, the Lakers just never have that.

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201.832

First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this 4.15 East Coast time because I'm in Boston. Just went to the Celtics' Knicks game. It's another emotional year for us, Rossello. Sundays with Rossello. We're back. We made it. Another basketball season to talk about, complain about, break down. Plus, we have a whole bunch of other things, too. We have the NFL drafts coming up.

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2014.187

He's going to think he can get to 20. The fact that the defensive numbers are like, if they were ninth or 11th, the Lakers, I'd be like, okay, that's a little fluky. There's probably some, when you're in the top five, when you're in the top three, like that's not fluky at some point. I think JJ is a legitimately good coach. Um,

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2034.924

And I thought what they did last night to Joker, who is terrible because they made him terrible. But then you just look at it. It's just that at some point it's math. Last night, LeBron and Luka had 59, 19 and 12. If you're going to get numbers that look like that from your best two guys, you're going to be heard from from a couple of playoff rounds. So if I was a Laker fan, I'd be excited.

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2056.076

But this is why we all went. That's what the trade happened. This is fucking crazy. You don't just get to add the fourth best guy on your team. In the league to your team, just, you know, for Anthony Davis, Max Christie, who, by the way, has been playing great.

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22.197

Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.

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2203.435

Yeah, they're probably trying to outscore. Yeah, the Luka dialogue was... I feel like a lot of the sports dialogue is just getting worse because it's just this quick rush to whatever judgment. He could have one bad game, his first Laker game, and everyone's like, oh my God, this is why the Mavs traded him.

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2222.886

Nobody thinks of the human element of, this guy thought he was going to be the next Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. He had no idea the trade was coming. They trade him. He's got to move to LA. He's got to figure out where he's going to live. He's taking shit about that.

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2236.845

He's got a drinking problem and that he eats too much and they didn't want to give the max and they're just, you know, laying into him left and right, leaking stuff to make him look bad. On top of that, he's got to figure out how he fits into this new team. He's got to play with LeBron, who's this guy he grew up watching, right? He's got to figure out how he fits in offense, new coaching staff.

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2255.796

He's not in shape. It's like, oh, you think this is going to go bad for like a week? Yeah, and he hadn't played. He hadn't played in two months. He hadn't played basketball. Perkins tweeted three days ago, it's going to be another two, three weeks before we see the real Luka he is to get in basketball shape, get his legs under. And then last night, he tweets, like I said, give Luka time.

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2277.055

It's like, yeah, no kidding. We got to give Luka time, sure, to adjust to his new team and get back in shape. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to figure this out. He's had one of the five best offensive starts to anybody in the history of the NBA in their first seven years. I think we're going to be okay with Luka Doncic. I'm not worried. But people were worried. I don't know what happened.

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2298.997

Who did you respect that was worried? Well, but some people have platforms. This is kind of what you do. You just go nuts. Get mad. Luka Doncic was terrible. This is why the Mavericks traded him.

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2321.383

It's fair. We can talk to Elon about it. Have you been hanging out with him much lately? I haven't talked to him. Lakers have the six best odds on FanDuel right now, so it's not a hot take to say, oh, I think they're a title contender. I think that's where they are. I think they're in that wildcard team. I went back and I looked at... I think this needs a name.

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2342.87

I came up with post-All-Star late bloomer, but I think we could do better.

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2351.154

Well, these teams that over the course of the last 30 games at some point got their shit together and became a real contender. So the reason I thought of this was because we watched it happen with Dallas last year. Dallas was 16-4 to finish the season. They were fifth net. They just... Remember they had a big winning streak, then they had a losing streak, and then they started winning again.

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2372.364

And at some point... it felt like there might be something there in a real way, right? 2023, it happened with the Lakers. They were 16-7 down the stretch, fourth net. They ended up making the Western Finals. 2022 is when the Celtics, were they 25-25, then went on the run. Their last 22 games, they were 17-5, first in net.

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2394.832

It might have been, maybe 24-25. They made the Finals. I threw out the two strike, not strike, the COVID years. And then in 2019, Portland, finished the last 25, 19 and six, fourth net, and they made the Western finals. So this does, there is a team, there's a track record of a team we didn't think was in the top three or top four moves up there. And for me, it's either the Lakers or Golden State.

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2419.789

And we're taping this right now as Golden State's playing and they're beating up on Dallas. But those would be my two picks. Golden State or the Lakers. And I'd probably lean Lakers because of Luka and the talent. Who would you have?

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2436.397

That's fair. But I don't think they... Would you necessarily say they would be an out-of-nowhere team? I guess it could conceivably happen. I think they're more likely to have more injuries and weird shit happen than to go on a run. But maybe I'm wrong.

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246.549

I'm sure you have some movie and music thoughts. Maybe some Oscar thoughts. Maybe some White Lotus thoughts. I never know what you're up to. How are you?

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2557.603

Oh, no, I'm just saying there's a scenario with these brackets where if they're not four or five, if they can somehow avoid OKC to the Western Finals.

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2569.048

Well, so they would have to get to two or three. OK, all right. I think it's completely, completely reasonable. Right now, they're 34 and 21. Memphis is 37, 19 and Denver is 37 and 20. I think they have to leapfrog. I don't think they'd want to play OKC, but I also wouldn't blindly pick OKC against Luka LeBron either. Would you?

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2588.014

I mean, I would pick them to win, but I wouldn't be like, oh, lock it in, write it in marker that OKC is 100% winning. I'd be a little nervous.

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261.558

You want to talk some James Polk? I don't know where you want to go.

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2633.312

I still have Denver and OKC in the Western Finals. But I think if you start thinking about series by series, game by game, this Lakers team is scary, especially with the fact that they're actually well coached. Right. And there's their matchup team. I think they're a team that could win on the road in a game seven. Right. How many teams could actually go on the road and win a game seven?

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2653.21

It's not the longest possible list. This is a team that would not be afraid to go on the road. I think the Vincent thing is important for them, too. because that's a guy who they signed who's been banged up or sucked for a year and a half.

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2665.958

And then people forgot that he wasn't good, that people forgot that he was actually good and valuable in Miami and was in big games for them and kind of knows where to go and what to do. He's one of those guys. And you need a guy like that on a weird team like this. And the fact that Reeves has gone up a level and JJ loves Reeves. I mean, the best thing JJ and LeBron have done

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2684.767

have been just pump Reeves up, pump him up, make him really think he's this gifted offensive player. And I think he's playing with so much confidence now. How many teams have a third guy who's as good of an offensive player as Reeves is? It's not a long list.

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272.185

Okay, we'll save it for later. I just went to Celtics-Knicks. I have just the slew of thoughts. We're watching the game. I'm sitting with my dad. And I just think the Knicks are a bad matchup for the Celtics. And we're saying that the whole time. We're like, this team can't play with us. And the Celtics get up to like in the mid-20s. It's like 24, 26. And then the Knicks come roaring back.

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2725.113

I was thinking somebody on Cleveland.

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2738.183

When you're talking about good offensive players, a good litmus test is that guy scored 45 last night. Are you surprised? Right. Like if Derek White scored 45, I'd be like, what? Did he make like 12 threes? What happened? But Reeves had that game the other day when everybody was hurt. What did he have? Like 38, 40? No, he had 45. He was 14 to 26. That's right.

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2797.604

Because you liked D'Angelo Russell so much? No, because I wanted the Lakers to not be good. I said, fuck, they got Finney Smith? Finney Smith's good. He's an additive player. There were some guys around the trade deadline that I was wondering... I still can't believe the Lakers didn't go after Nick Clarkson. Was he available, though? I don't know what... What are the Nets doing?

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2820.712

I mean... Playing their ass off. I know, but they traded to get their picks back for some tanking plan, and then they just can't stop beating teams.

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2835.962

Watford was like, I gotta get this video to the scouts.

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2863.479

In that Philly game, they had a couple moments where they blew the lead and were like, all right, valiant effort.

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2868.803

Somebody else would hit a three and they'd be winning again. Whatever Philly is doing to Embiid is one of the weirdest subplots of not just the year, but the decade. I have no idea why he's playing. And he looks miserable. He's falling down, I think, twice as much as he's ever fallen down. Looks like he's legitimately hurt.

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2888.713

I think this is the highest the last couple weeks. He had that play when he ran in to contest a play in the corner and just kind of went into the third row. He couldn't stop. It's pretty brutal. So the case for Golden State, really quick, to be the late bloomer, is just the combo of... Jimmy, I don't know what it is about Steph.

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291.115

They come roaring back, man. Brunson and Towns. And we're watching like, should we be scared of it? Should we be scared? And then now it's like, it's nine, it's seven, then it's six. But we slowly realized that Tibbs has just left his starters in basically the whole game. And that's one of the reasons they're hanging around. And my dad's freaking out. I'm like, no, there's no way.

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2911.872

It would be the greatest feature somebody wrote, but it just seems like everybody that passes through Steph's life, they turn into Gandhi for like the first three weeks. Like the way they talk about him, it's just like this religious experience to be Steph's teammate. And Jimmy is like so happy. Like there was that clip of him diagramming plays in the huddle.

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2928.837

This is a guy who was just sitting next to the water cooler the last three months of the Miami season. And now he's like, Draymond, come here. I have an idea for a high screen. And he's just so invigorated. And I think they're legitimately dangerous looking at their schedule. Um, and they're beating Dallas today as we're taping, but they got Charlotte Orlando's a mess at Philly. Great.

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2950.56

At Charlotte, at Knicks, at Nets. And then they have a seven-game homestand against Detroit, Portland, Sacramento, Knicks, Denver, Milwaukee, Toronto. It's a team that could go on a 12-2 run, and I wouldn't be surprised. So that would be the other one I'm kind of looking at. I guess the thing to watch is whether Curry can go up a level again or not, because we haven't seen it this year from him.

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310.186

Towns isn't going to play like 46 minutes. Like we're fine. And then the Celts end up finishing him off. Here's where I'll start with you. Does Tibbs know that the regular season, especially in the East, doesn't really matter and that you just want to be one of the first four seeds and that to put miles like the miles that he put on some of his guys today is insanity? I don't get it.

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3105.068

I don't know. I want to watch it for a couple weeks. Like Butler, he's averaging almost 10 free throws a game for Golden State. As we're taping this, they're beating Dallas by... 20, and he's already 6 for 6. He's plus 24 in the game, but watching the way he's playing with these guys, it's weird.

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3122.05

It reminded me of when Moss got to the 07 Pats and was just so delighted to be in a real offense with Brady, and he was just like... skipping around. Right. And just so happy and, uh, had so much space and knew that if he was going to do whatever the ball was going to be there and Butler watching the space that he has, but also the connection he has with Draymond, I wasn't prepared for.

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3145.373

I wish we were watching the game right now. Um, but the, the high IQ thing he has with Draymond, I think has been fun to watch where he's posting up and Draymond's at the top. They're playing this weird two man game, but everybody's so scared of the Curry shooting. Um, I'm not counting this team out.

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3181.47

Pool guy in Melrose Place? I feel like you're making this up.

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3189.235

So is there anybody else you would put on the late bloomer list?

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3199.222

So I had them marked down. They've been so, I mean, they were six and 14 in their last 20. So there's only a way to go.

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3217.247

So the other three I had marked down, it's not going to be Detroit, even though there's a lot of good Detroit numbers for the last 20, 25 games.

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3230.697

Yeah. Not only is Detroit... for the people listening, probably locked into the sixth seed. It's not like an easy series for the Knicks. They're going to be favored. I would pick the Knicks, but I don't know if that's like the easiest series possible for them. The other two teams I have, Minnesota, just because, who knows, 31 and 26, but maybe something happens. Is Randall playing? I'm out.

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3253.561

Is that good or bad? If Randall's playing, you're out. Okay. And then the only other one, I mean, Dallas, I guess we have to watch, but the only other one I was thinking was the Clippers. If there's a long, healthy Kawhi stretch, a Bogdanovich resurgence, they're really well coached like the Lakers. Could something blossom with them in March? I wouldn't rule it out.

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3286.584

All right, more 30 games left subplots. So your pick would be the Lakers. I think I agree with you, but I have Golden State a little closer to them than you do for a possible late bloomer. Anybody else?

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3360.604

They are. I just think they're unquestionably better when he's not out there for them. I don't know. I've been watching basketball my whole life. It's just, he screws up the spacing. He, he, He might be a good player on other teams for that team. He does not make sense to me.

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3382.027

Here's what I don't love with Minnesota. Okay, give it to me. As you know, I'm on the Amp bandwagon. There's been a lot of really high-volume field goal games for him.

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3404.34

Just the last two weeks, 28, 25, 28, 33, 18, 32. I don't think they're winning three playoff rounds with that happening, would be my point. And I don't really know. I haven't watched enough Minnesota the last three weeks to understand why that's happening. But it's just a lot of three. Like he took 14 threes in a game. He took 15 threes in a game, 17 and 14. Just a lot.

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3437.957

And then I look at the free throws. Like in one game, he had 28. They went by 19. He had 28 shots and 18 free throws. 25 shots and 15 free throws. it's just, it's a lot of ant. I don't, that's pretty easy to stop when you get to a playoff series. So I wish they had a little, but I don't know if they have a lot of other choices.

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3513.565

You did a good job on the lamello usage rate, shot rate stuff. You talked about that in your pod a couple of weeks ago.

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3545.807

They have the top Instagram handles in the NBA. Him and Lonzo have two of the top five for most viewers. People like the balls.

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3565.098

Oh, before I switch topics, that Minnesota Houston game when Dylan Brooks was talking shit to Ant and they got into it a couple of times and then that game just got more and more competitive and heated and kept going and kept going is in the running for my favorite game of the season. I love that game.

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3588.876

I wonder, is Dylan Brooks, does he do that again? Or is he like, all right, here's somebody I shouldn't do that to again. Or does he double down on it the next time they play? And what happens in a playoff series?

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3606.753

This is different, though, with Ant. I actually think he might double down because he might think Ant might punch him in a series, and then he would take Ant out of the series, basically.

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3632.85

Brooks is a better player now, though, than he was in that Lakers series.

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3758.287

That's why with Thompson, it's like at least when he's driving to the basket, And he kind of doesn't know where he's going or what's going to happen. But he always goes by whoever's guarding him.

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3798.915

Just feels like he's, depending on the matchup, he's kind of one of those guys.

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3823.277

So look, I mean, none of this was... That's one of those where they could have probably flipped Steven Adams and one of the 90 picks they have to get Capella or somebody who could actually play a little bit more for them. I had them on my list for subplots for the last 30 games because they're 3-8 in their last 11, 18th in net. They've dropped to 35 and 21 for the season.

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3845.188

And they're a 5 seed right now, but... Like if I'm Golden State and I'm five losses back from them with a bunch of time left, I feel like I can catch them. Because I thought Houston was overachieving with some of the stuff that was happening to them the first two months. The league, their conference is getting better. Clippers are better. The Lakers are better. The Warriors are better.

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3865.487

And I don't know if they're going to stay in the top six. That would be my pick to drop out. What do you think?

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3909.335

Because that's one of the subplots that's left is who are the 10 teams going to be? And more importantly, who are the play-in teams going to be? And then how can you avoid... that eight spot where you have to play OKC in round one, which would just suck no matter who you are. You know, it does feel like Phoenix is going to drop out and we should talk to them to talk about them. They're 27 and 29.

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3933.001

They have three more wins than your Portland Trailblazers, your favorite team. They're six and they're last 15. They're 19th in that. I know you talked to Goldsberry about this and you're a pot on Friday, but I sat at that game with Goldsberry and the Suns were absolutely alarming in person.

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3952.05

Oh, my God. I mean, we were pretty close to the bench, so I could really watch it. They weren't talking to each other. You know, you judge certain things, like how many guys get up after a big play on the bench. What are guys doing during timeouts? What happens when a star player walks by his coach? Does he acknowledge him? Does he talk to him? Does he just kind of stop by?

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3973.072

Does one of the star players yell at the coach? Well, KD yelled at Bud twice during that game. There was near the end, One of my favorites is when one of the stars, there's somebody shooting free throws at the other end and one of the stars moves to the furthest part of the court away from everybody just to go sulk in the corner.

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3994.337

That was KD near the end because he was so mad the way they used him in that game and the team played like crap. They were playing all the hits and it is not a team that seemed very happy. And I don't know. I actually, we were talking and it was like, I don't think Bud was trying to get fired.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

4012.19

But it was the kind of coaching where you were like, if that guy's trying to get fired, I would point back to that game where it's like, you're just leaving Grayson Allen out there for the entire crush time and get killed by Darren Fox. It was weird. It was a team that was not on the same page in any respect and seemed unhappy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

4030.147

That was my takeaway leaving for two and a half hours, an unhappy team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

4114.713

Well, you know what they unfortunately tried to do is they tried to trade him and didn't tell him. And I think that was the death knell. Because, you know, the way the NBA works.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4127.843

You think that this whole season you don't think he wanted to be there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

4141.013

I don't know. Well, I never know what to believe with Durant stuff, but I'd always heard that he likes Phoenix. But I think it was a pretty unusual move by them to shop him around quietly with the don't tell anyone in a league where somebody is immediately going to tell somebody. And that's how they found out.

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4159.483

I just thought that was the kind of thing you do when you're trying to burn the relationship. Well, Luka never found out. Um, I listen, I test while I've been watching three in his whole career. He's at a slightly different point in his career. Physically. You can see it. He's as amazing as he is. And we've never seen a guy with that kind of size and shooting and athleticism.

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418.226

Well, he had, we're looking up and I'm looking at the thing. I'm like, I don't feel like Towns has come out. My dad's like, no, no, he's come out. And then he played 33 of the first 36 minutes of the game. Right. So he just went all in on that third quarter with his starters, basically. And they were trying to hang around. And it was, but the Celtics were playing their bench guys too.

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4181.373

He's a little bit creakier than he used to be. You can see it when you watch it. And it makes sense because he's been in the league since 2007. Like this is, this is how it goes.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

42.59

Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president-elect states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Sundays with Russillo are back next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch of us coming for you on Monday. We did an Oscar winner. You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.

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4243.578

the bill thing was interesting to watch in person because he was in a funk to start the game and wasn't really trying hard. And then there was a moment where you could almost see him be like, Oh shit, this is on TV and there's fans. And then he started trying harder. Um, But, you know, it's an unhappy team. I will promise you that that team does not make the playoffs.

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4264.303

There's no solution for whatever is wrong with them. And I don't you know, it's it's probably the all time new owner syndrome example we're going to have other than Prokhorov, which I think is number one.

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4316.653

Well, think about it. If we bought the Pelicans, would we just keep the roster intact for a year? Or would we just be going out to dinner every night trying to figure out what our first trade was going to be? I feel like they would be the latter.

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4339.338

So I think Prokhorov was worse than the Luka trade. And here's why. Because the Luka trade, as ridiculous and absurd as it was, and it's going to go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the league, and maybe in the history of sports. So putting that aside, at least there was a strategy in place that I genuinely think they believed. The strategy was insane. It makes no sense.

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436.479

And, you know, trying to keep their guys fresh for the fourth quarter. And then that fourth quarter started and you could see it at the game. You could see like Hart, who was, I thought really good. He's like, any stoppage, you could see his chest heaving. And Towns started to slowly die because Towns was awesome. But he ran out of gas. And the Celtics knew it. They started targeting him.

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4364.859

It made no sense when it happened. It's indefensible. But they had a plan and a strategy. Prokhorov, his plan was, let's spend as much money as possible and do whatever it takes. I don't care about picks. Let's keep going, going, going, going. And then it didn't work for a year. And he was like, I'm out. No more money. I'm not spending anything. He just zagged the other way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4385.287

But now they had no more picks left. I just don't feel like anyone's ever going to top that. Two strategies that one was worse than the other. And in the span of two years, and he just demolished basketball in Brooklyn for no reason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4415.827

It's like digging a hole for a street. It wasn't even one house. It was like nine houses. Which way do you want these highways going? North, south? I didn't realize the sun came that way. I'm out. Let's not do this. Just spell the lots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4502.938

Also, the iconic part of the reason you're getting rid of Luka because he's not a safe enough risk physically and his devotion to the game. And then you trade for Davis who gets hurt an hour into his first game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4528.871

This is your dream. This is what I want to happen to you. You marry into the rich family that's thinking about getting into professional basketball. This is it. This is the path.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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455.907

And then Towns finally twisted his ankle. But I just watch stuff like that. And I know we've talked about this tip stuff forever about how he doesn't care about the minutes. But I think it's really reckless. This team just needs to get to the playoffs with these five guys being able to play 40 minutes a game when we get to the playoffs. They don't need to do it now. You look at the standings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4637.912

I remember when John Walsh sat me down and told me that my 10 was everyone else's seven. What did you say? Thanks, John. Just to relax on everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4657.392

Most meaningful thing John Walsh ever said to me. Um, to care about the relationships with the people you have professionally, because those are things going to last after you do whatever you're doing professionally, which I think took me a long time to realize.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4685.017

Um, more storylines for you. I almost don't want to get to Philly. I feel like Philly is like the... Let me ask you then.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4697.465

No, but I'm saying I want to almost save Philly. Philly's like the fucking huge dessert we have coming out that's got the table where the guy's going to do a baked Alaska. That's how much excited I am to talk about Philly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4722.877

I think I've had it like once in my life. Philly is 20 and 36. They have the sixth worst record in the league. They've lost seven straight. And they owe a top six picks to OKC. And now they're in the zone where it's like, should we just fucking... Should we tank it? What do we do? And it's funny, I wrote down, could this hit mid-2010 Brooklyn proportions for them?

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4744.843

Or I was thinking of like the single weakest situations we've seen in the NBA. And I think the bleakest they can get, and I've certainly rooted for Celtics teams that had pieces of it. Like when the Vin Baker trade, when it became clear that there was no way of getting out of his contract.

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476.093

It just doesn't matter after the top four and whether they're going to be two, three or four. I don't really feel like it matters. I think it matters for them to be healthy, you know, and any Knicks fan I know is like, well, just wait till we get Mitchell back. It's like, all right, so that's going to be your big X factor in the playoffs. This guy who barely ever plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4761.379

And you just start looking ahead and you're like, wow, this is... So we're going to have this for three more years. And we're just fucked. And that slow realization comes in. And I think it's hitting some of the Sixers fans with the George Embiid money. So you have that on top of... You might give the seventh pick in the draft to OKC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4781.682

You might not even get a draft pick out of this season if you can't land the plane on this lottery. What would you do? I would tank.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4799.193

It's not. It's not going to look better tomorrow. And then Paul George, he's like, yeah, my finger, I'm taking shots. It's like, well, why can't you move? Why do you seem slow half the time? Are there other injuries you have that you're not telling us about?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4830.58

What are they doing over there? Do we feel like we went strongly enough on us being concerned from the moment they did that contract to the start of the season? Because I feel like both of us danced around, including in combos with each other, recorded, where I was trying to be diplomatic. But deep down in my soul, I just felt like this was a bad fit. And it's been way worse than I thought.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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493.106

keeping your fingers crossed on him, keeping your fingers crossed on Towns and six foot one Brunson and Nananobi who always gets hurt to just be able to roll like this for 40 minutes a game. I think it's irresponsible. I don't get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4970.917

Well, I'm personally more disappointed because we had Phoenix in that big super boost, which I haven't lost all decade. So that was kind of like all of us were aligned on. We think Phoenix is going to be really good. I can't wait to watch this offense. And they've all been healthy, which is the weird part. To me, that's almost more surprising.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4993.283

I can't say I'm surprised that Embiid broke down and that Paul George looks a little long in the tooth. What's surprising to me is how miserable everybody seems and the fact that there's no outs. To go 20 and 36 is really hard. That's a bad record. Now you're on pace for... what's that like 27 and 55. Like you're just, there's a reason they're in the standings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5022.867

Can I push back on one Paul George thing now? Yeah. Cause you said ultimately you're going to remember him as like kind of disappointing. I think he's exactly, it was exactly the best version of whatever career we ever would have thought it was going to be. I don't, like, he made conference finals a couple times. He had that one nice playoff series with the Clippers after Kawhi left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5047.348

He also had a couple where he wasn't that great. I still, like, I would still take him over Vince Carter and Carmelo and people like that from a success standpoint. You'd take him over Melo? I wouldn't take him as a player from, like, I have Melo ranked in the top 75, but I'm just saying, like, his achievements... I think he's achieved more than Carmelo did as a player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5068.994

He made it further in the playoffs twice. Or three times. He was in the conference finals three times. And he was second team All-NBA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5086.55

I've heard that argument, but it doesn't explain 09 when I felt like they pretty easily could have beaten the Lakers. And I don't feel like he had a good enough series personally.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5097.357

You got me on the one. 2019 first team on Bay. I don't know. I think you said if you're going to compare him versus Carmelo and I was a Carmelo defender forever. But I also feel like now Carmelo has become a little overrated in retirement, which I think happens depending on if you have a podcast after retirement or not. I don't know. We were there for the Carmelo thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5119.576

He was an incredible scorer. But the Denver years, pretty much all the way through until 2009 were disappointing. Right? Then pushing his way to the Knicks and making them basically trade all these assets that actually could help him if he stayed. I think that he gets dinged on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5230.151

Paul's going to be taking a month off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5264.49

Well, what would scare me for a Philly fan is we've seen this with other players that all of a sudden we're at a different level and you knew it right away. Like I always remember Jermaine O'Neal. Jermaine O'Neal had those two years where he was getting traded around and people were still acting like he was 24 and 10. Jermaine O'Neal just wasn't anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5283.683

Usually when the stats drop this dramatically, they don't come back. That's, that's what we've learned. You can go on basketball reference. You can look at any of these guys. There's some sort of level, especially if it's second half of your career, when your stats go from like here to here, and that's just who you become. And we think it's coming back and it just never does. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5305.987

I'm still going to defend Paul George's 2018. I feel like that was a really good year to start to finish. Even like that Phoenix series, like he was kind of carrying them. It was like he'd kind of reached his, the 2019 OKC year was good. And then that Quipper run. I don't know what it is for Carmelo. What is it? The 2013 Knicks season, right? The regular season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5372.324

It would be a fun podcast just to discuss Paul George's career for two hours. There's been a lot of ups and downs because the bubble was really bad. The year after was really great. you could go all over the map with it. A couple more storylines quickly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5465.02

Oh, do you? I didn't mind it. They paid nothing for him. He costs like five bucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5482.822

Good for him. It's a nice team for him. Hey, Ben, just play some defense and bring the ball up for us. Can you do that? Occasionally do the thing where you drive really hard and then kick it back out to somebody. That's all we need from you. Grab some rebounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5500.074

If I'm paying Ben Simmons the minimum, I'm okay with it. If I'm paying $43 million a year for him, not as okay. Some quick storylines, quickly. Is John Moran ever going to be John Moran again?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5521.489

34 games, he's missed 22. He's averaging 20 a game, 30% from three. Free throw attempts down to 5.9. They're 23-11 with him, 14-8 without him. And there's moments and flashes, but... I was kind of expecting more from this season. We'll see. Maybe this, this is why maybe Memphis could be the late bloomer, even though they have a good record.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5547.438

Could he just go on a heater the next 20 games and look like jogging? But it's, it's not the guy from three years ago. I'll tell you that much, at least not yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

557.082

Well, and then Towns is somebody that I just think, and I thought he was really good in the first, in the second and third quarter. I thought he was really good. But he's also somebody I think you have to be a little careful with. He hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr. over the years, you know? But when they got back in the game, Brunson got cooking, which he does from time to time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5572.39

Be good for four weeks in a row with you. Yeah. Put up like a 28 and 10 for a month. Um, so I'm watching that and it's hard to take Memphis seriously, not knowing what we're getting from that dude. Even though I love like Jaron Jackson, I think it's been one of the big winners of the season. I thought he went up a level. It's noticeable. He's an all-NBA guy for me right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5600.743

Cleveland versus OKC for home court. 46-10 versus 45-10. Taping it before both of their games today. But I think that's the storyline at some point because one of those teams could get a game seven. And those are the only two teams left. Same thing for MVP where it's SGA versus York. Although it seems like SGA is... Kind of got it locked up. He's minus 500. It would take a lot at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5623.637

Next one. This is specifically for you. Can the Pistons, how frisky can we get? How much friskiness should I be prepared for? Do I need to put on a frisky jacket to combat their friskiness?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5645.301

What do you think their record is in their last 28 games?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5653.316

19 and nine. Last 20 games, they're seventh in net. Cade Cunningham, your guy, you never gave up on him. You own the most amount of stock. You were just buying other people's stock when they were down. And he's averaging 25 and nine and has, if we kept track of who is the best player in that game as an award, I feel like he would have about 25 of them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5678.048

20 of them, 19 of them, 22, somewhere in there. Uh, but he's been awesome and they can rebound and they're tough. That's what I like. They're tough. It's a tough, like kind of, it's a veteran team. And with some wild cards, beef stews out there, there's some elbows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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576.97

Uh, the Celtics got, they did the same kind of the offense slowed down, but towns who had Tatum and a bunch of forwards guarding them, which Celtics strategy. And then, and then towns was like, I'm going to actually use my weight and I'm going to bulldoze into dudes. And you know, the refs were letting him do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5772.799

Maybe he'll get invited to the Hall of Fame when Cade goes. I actually was... I've been sketching out all NBA every week just as an exercise. Good for you. Getting those reps in when no one's looking. Just part of the pod process. I have Cade. I think there's a real case for him for second team all-NBA right now. Who are your four guards?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5797.939

Well, you figure Mitchell... Like, SGA Mitchell are first team. And Brunson's going to be second team. And if you're going to go at least a little traditional and say, I want to put a guard... as my fourth, you know, but basically the fourth guard and second team on BA it's between him and Edwards. And I think that's really it. What about Kyrie? Kyrie's in there and Curry's in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5823.889

If you're, if you're betting on the Curry bump, um, I had Kyrie and Curry and Edwards all 13, but I mean, it's all like, I didn't really, I spent five minutes on it, but I was just, I was like, Hmm, I wonder where Kate is. and Cade to me with what he's done with Detroit, they lose Ivy and they somehow keep going and how hard he plays every night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5843.989

I, I'd have trouble leaving him off second team right now. It's him or Edwards. And you can talk to me in Edwards cause of the defense. And, but you know, they have the same right teams have the same record and you could say Edwards has more talent. So at least it's a good argument. So anyway, um, Kato would have on there.

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5862.325

So the reason I wanted to mention them, though, is because I think they're going to be kind of a bitch in the playoffs. Just for one round. I don't necessarily think they're going to beat the Knicks. I just think they're going to be really physical, super excited to be there. And they have a really good guy at the end of these games who's not afraid of whoever the best guy on the other team is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5883.35

And it's an unusual six seed for a conference that I think is pretty awful. Once you get past the first four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

5936.576

Some are asking. He never gave up a stock. He's still holding on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

594.452

And all of a sudden he went from like zero points to 20 and about, I don't know, it felt like 20 minutes of real time, not even game time. So when you watch the Knicks, when you see them, when they're all playing well and you see the five guys and they'll have these eight minute stretches where it makes sense. I just don't think with the way he plays the minutes in the bench, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5962.045

So a couple more subplots and then we'll go. I mentioned the all NBA battles. What's weird is the top five seem like they're locked in unless a Mitchell Brunson development can happen. But I don't know how Mitchell's, if Cleveland's going to have the best record in the East and maybe the best record in the league, he's probably going to be first team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5980.409

Anyway, worst rookie of the year race in a while. Castles, Castles minus 175 on FanDuel. It doesn't even start. I went to the game Thursday. I didn't start. Um, Tenth playoff spot, Russian Roulette in the East. Orlando, seven. Miami, eight. A game and a half back. Atlanta 9 at 26-30, and then you have three teams that legitimately don't want to even make the playing game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6009.585

Chicago at 10, 22-34, Philly 20-36 now, or 35, and then Brooklyn 20-35. Chicago, Philly, and Brooklyn I don't think want to be in the playoffs. Maybe Philly's just going to have to stumble into it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6030.393

Which is almost what happened at Dallas that year. And then Dallas ended up keeping the pick and getting lively. Remember, they were right on the edge.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6055.371

I still stand by my foundation. You know what? I look back at my playbook and... The thought process was you have Luka Dacic. You always have a chance if that guy's in your team. The next year, they made the finals. Was I wrong?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6073.283

I have no idea who's going to be the 10th seed. And what'll be funny is if it ends up being Chicago, which I think would be the team I would bet on out of those three. Chicago, a team that openly tried to sabotage their own team at the trade deadline and still might make the playoffs. So you have that. Then you have Tankapalooza. The Cooper flag stuff's heating up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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6091.278

Washington has a four-win lead over everyone else. They only have nine wins. New Orleans, Utah, Charlotte, Toronto, Philly is our top six. And Utah's hilarious because every once in a while, they look really good. I watched some of the Houston game. And Houston was really trying to win and Utah's like, nah, we're going to do this and watch this and then we'll do this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

6115.633

And they just look really confident from time to time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

614.389

I don't really take them seriously as a championship contender, which is one of the things I want to talk to you about today. I think they're one level below. I really only think it's OKC and Denver and the Celtics and Cleveland right now. And I have room for a bunch of other people that these next 30 games can climb in. But I think the Knicks are a level below those four teams right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Trying to think. How many did the mid-80s Lakers win? They won five? Nine finals in 12 years. Listen, if this season, if any great thing happened through 50 games other than Dallas making the dumbest trade I've ever seen, we might be alive with Scoot. We haven't talked about this on a pod. We might be alive. We might be.

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there's enough there and he's young enough that I feel okay. This isn't like where I was mentally, you know, a month and a half ago with this, where it felt like a sunk cost. Now I'm, you know, he's gotten better. He's getting so big. Uh, last thing. And Dallas got killed as we were taking this to go and stay, but, um, they're not getting their bigs back until the first week of March.

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You can also check out our Ringer Movies YouTube channel where it's going to be as well. All the videos and clips from this podcast are on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. But... We are now a video podcast on Spotify. So, uh, you can watch it. You can listen to it, whatever you want to do.

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What do you, where do you have them in your head? Because that's another subplot for the last 30 games.

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Well, the good news for them. it looks like they're going to keep the 10 seed no matter what happens, unless Phoenix gets their shit together, which, um, I don't think will happen. And I didn't make one be a subplot because we already know how that's going to play out. It's such a bummer.

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I thought San Antonio was kind of lurking as a party crasher for, uh, maybe a nine or a 10 seed, but now that one shot and they're going to sink back. Um, and the one B thing is a bummer. We don't, there's really not a lot to say about that one. Um, So if I had to bet, so Sacramento you would have as a 10 seed, 30 games left.

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Is there anything you've seen from Sacramento that got you excited since all the trades?

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No, I think San Antonio is out. I have Phoenix and San Antonio out, and I have Sacramento as the 10. I think that's how that plays out. And maybe Dallas passes them and becomes the 10 and Sacramento's 9. But I think that's something. It looks something like that.

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I could see Sabonis and Valanciunas back for you. I've loved it. You excited to see those guys? I know you watch a lot of Lithuanian Olympic tape. All right, any other subplots before we go that you care about?

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No, I asked you, I said... we should talk at the end of the pod or near the end of the pod every Sunday about one rabbit hole we fell into over the course of the week. Cause I think we both fall into a rabbit holes, either a book rabbit hole or, um, some sort of YouTube or somebody sends you a video and you're like, what's that? And then you're watching seven of them. Um,

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I really want to talk about this Lorne Michaels book I was reading, but we don't have to do that today. So somebody sent me a Reddit thread about the Silver Springs performance by Fleetwood Mac in 1997 in the dance. I don't know if you're familiar with this.

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Well, so this is why, this is why the deep dive so much fun. Um, So Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, they're together as a band in the early 70s. And then they end up joining Fleetwood Mac, right? Both of them together and they're dating and they're in a hot relationship. And they write the first album there together.

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Rumors, the most famous album they made, they broke up as they're making that album. And then a couple other people in the band broke up too. Basically, everybody in the band's breaking up with somebody they're dating in the band, and that's what the album becomes. So they cut out Silver Springs, which is this song she wrote about Lindsey Buckingham. And they cut it out of Rumors.

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It's a great song. They put it on the B-side instead, and it becomes one of the biggest albums ever, but Silver Springs is the B-side. And she's mad about it forever because it's one of her best songs. So when they do the dance... Now they've broken up. Lindsay's with somebody and they go on stage and they do this and they rehearse it and she's playing it the same.

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But then when they do it for the actual concert film and the album, she really gets into it and starts kind of staring at them, giving some side-eye stares as she's doing it. All performative. I think I've seen this. It's one of the best clips on YouTube is Stevie Nicks...

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by the last like minute and a half of the song, and he's just playing, and now she's like turning over and walking toward him, and she's now like, and her eyes are starting to bulge out, and she's like, you'll never forget, I forget the lyrics, the voice of the woman that haunts you, and she's just like yelling it out, and he's just like, all right, cool, and he's just playing the guitar.

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Well, and then at the end, she's like, the lyrics in the song are, you'll never get away from the voice of the woman that loves you. And she's like, you'll never get away. You'll never get away. And she's like, and it's a thing. And it's become, ever since YouTube popped up, it's become a thing.

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And then there's all these theories about the performance, how much of it was performative, how much it was a stage. This Reddit thread that I got sent was about how

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they're preparing to do this comeback thing and they might've gotten involved a little bit again and make, because they have these different interviews where they're talking about what a good place they're in and they're, they have interviews together where they seem a little lovey dovey and maybe, maybe some sparks will fly, maybe not. But then by the time they do the dance, um,

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it's clear to her that she, that he's with somebody else, like for whatever, because here's the piece. He has a kid the next summer. So this is what the thread.

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With somebody else. By the time they do this performance, he probably knew they're having the kid. And this was when it maybe died for Lindsay. So the theory was for Stevie. So the theory was when she's singing this, it's like within a few weeks of after she found out, maybe they don't have a chance to get back together. And she's pouring it on in the thing. But it's a legendary YouTube clip.

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Anyway, I read, I spent an hour and a half reading everything I could read about this on the internet yesterday. At 2.30 in the morning, Boston time.

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It was a really bad first half. It got a little better as the game went along, but it was not a great game for him.

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It's the 70s music stuff. Everybody's got a story that is at least worth an hour of your time that goes in a bunch of different directions. The other thing I found out was there's a 1977 performance of Silver Springs because people thought they never really played it that much. That's on YouTube in black and white of like an original performance of her, like right after they broke up singing it.

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I know that. And then later, I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just a chance. You'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you. This is when she kicks it up in the performance. And then the end is, was I such a fool? I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just a chance.

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You'll never get away from the sound of a woman that loves you. And then it just keeps going and going and going. Yeah. Anyway, it all played out on stage, and it's amazing, and it's one of the best YouTube clips.

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What you just laid out reminded me of what happened in Vegas when they were building the casinos and the themes got stupider and stupider. And they were like, we're going to have a casino. It's New York, New York. It's going to be like going to New York in a casino. And then somebody else would be like, whoa, I'm going to make a casino called Aladdin.

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And we just go and it's like being in a fantasy. And then somebody else was like, I'm going to create Paris. And it's just going to be like going to Paris. Except somebody else said, I'm doing Venetian and it's going to be like going to Italy. Some of these casinos stayed and then other ones just, you know, failed miserably.

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I wonder if that's going to happen with NBA trades where the KD trade was basically your version of them completely fucking up that last pyramid before they got better at it. Or maybe the Luka trade will be the last one and then we'll just get better at trades from that point on. Maybe not.

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It was really funny sitting next to my dad because he's like an old married couple with the Celtics team because he's been watching these guys so long.

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And so like the start of the second quarter, Jalen Tatum's out and it's going to be like Jalen's five minutes where it's like that part of the concert where it's like Keith Richards has a new song for you and he's going to come out and play like his song. And my dad's just like, Watch this. Jalen's just gonna, he's just gonna try to get some shots off.

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Like this is, just watch what's gonna, and it was like, he knows the team. He's been going to the games too long. He knows like every part of it. And it was just really funny because our record is like 39 and 15. We won the title last year. And it just proved to me, my 77-year-old dad, you're just never gonna be happy with sports. He's complaining about Jalen, who's awesome.

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Yeah, they're down big in every game at some point in the game.

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He'll watch the TNT ABC sometime, but he watches every Celts game. Which is kind of adorable because that's how he finds out sometimes about other teams. Like guys, like he went to see Wemby right before the break and it was his first Wemby game. And it was just his scouting report really made me laugh because it was like, he's so long. He's not wrong. You think you have him and then he blocks it.

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Well, I like with the older fans how cut and dry it becomes. Like my dad just wanted the Red Sox to sign Bregman. He's like, we need a right-hand hitter. He's going to be good in Fenway. He looked up no stats.

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He had no, there was no BIP. There was no average annual salary.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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No, he's like, we need a right-hand hitter. And he's been really good in Fenway. He can't, you know, he can't lay down any of the stats of Bregman actually in Fenway, but that's just where he stands and that's the way it is.

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It's the Doc Rivers as a GM strategy of when I played Byron Mullins that time when he hit those threes. We got to get him.

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No, I didn't do that. But I will say, I looked at his stats and noticed that he hadn't had a really awesome year since 2019, which made me nervous. But then MLB released their top 100 players. And he was like 57. I was like, yeah, baby. Bregman. Kind of sucked me back a little bit. The Red Sox had four of the top 100.

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Christian Campbell, LaMarcella Mayer, Roman Anthony.

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No, you know what? I have 20 words for you right now. The Luka trade made me feel better about Mookie. It actually, it was a trade that was so much worse than the Mookie trade, which was reprehensible and awful. Cause at least we won the title with Mookie. Like they never even won the title with Luka. And then they traded them for, you know, they probably got more in the trade.

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But I really identified with the Mavs fans because what they were feeling after the trade was like Red Sox fans on steroids and HGH, how we felt with Mookie. But at least with the Mookie thing, we had time to prepare and it seemed like it was headed that way for a year. It's like, oh man, this is not going to end well. Luka, they had no idea.

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And then Manfred just daggers. We, we didn't want to be on a declining platform or whatever he said that I couldn't believe that, but you know, he's, He's setting the table because he needs to negotiate with other people. And he's trying to make it seem like ESPN was a bad partner. And that's why our ratings were down because they didn't push the game. I get why he did it.

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It's just really unusual. But I think baseball is a local sport. And I think we've known that for 10 years. And you and I have personally talked about it 10 times. I don't think people want to say, oh, it's Sunday night. I'm going to watch the Cincinnati Reds play the Milwaukee Brewers. Like nobody's doing that.

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All right, we got to go. Rossello, good to see you. We'll see you next Sunday. And next Sunday when Celtics City starts, the last segment of the pod, we're going to do some sort of topic based off of whatever the first episode was.

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That's what the people wanted. They kept asking. Good to see you, Rosillo.

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Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle and Serena and Gahal as well. Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast. You can also check out clips on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have a new Rewatchables coming on Monday night. That is a video podcast as well on Spotify.

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And you can check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel for entire videos of that as well. I'm going to see you on Tuesday. Enjoy the next couple of days and I'll see you Tuesday.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Uh, one thing to promote Celtic city, our nine part Celtics docu series that we did for HBO and max is going to be Sunday, March 3rd, the first episode, nine straight weeks in a row. Uh, Spent four years on this, obviously meant a lot to me. And I think we did an awesome job. I can't wait for everybody to see it. I'm in Boston because we did.

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I think the Celtics are a very bad matchup for them with all the guys they have to throw up Brunson with all the ways they can attack towns with the fact that their two wings are just better than the next two wings. And those guys are really good. And, you know, I thought Josh Hart was fantastic today.

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And especially just watching, you know, there's stuff you can see on TV, but then in person, just the motor that he has. And now he's just trying to catch his breath every time the game stops. You can watch him. He's just like taking these big breaths because he knows he's got to like go like a rabbit again. But I think it's a bad matchup for them.

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And Cleveland weirdly is, I think, even though Cleveland's been great and they have 10 losses and they're playing after we tape this. I think Cleveland's a more realistic series for them than the Celtics are. With the size the Celts have. Now, the question with the Celtics is, poor Zingas we saw today. He was moving great. Are we getting that guy in April and May?

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Drew, they've been really kid gloves with the whole season. Chad Finn of the Boston Globe was writing that he's on the DJ plan. I thought that was great. I'm going to steal it from him. He's just on that, yo, man, just be there in April, May, June. We don't care about right now. Feel free to just whatever. Pick your spots. Today, he gave a shit.

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When he gives a shit and poor Zingas is healthy, this team is still, in my opinion, the best team in the league. I just don't know. Is that team going to be there in April and May? We'll see.

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Oh, because I had a Brunson thing for you. Something important happened today. There was a moment. My dad and I agreed. I think he's become the preeminent flopper in the NBA.

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It's just a whole bunch of them. He's doing it on both ends. He's doing it on defense and offense. By the way, kudos to him because it's working. But I think Harden's getting a little older, right? Maybe his best flopping days... probably 2018, 19 range. Trae Young was there for a second, but I think some of the rule changes have gotten his head. Brunson's top of his game. He's flopping on picks.

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He's flopping coming off screens. He's flopping when somebody bumps into him on a drive. He's flopping for charges. I think he's the complete package. It was some of the best flopping I've seen. He's all first team, no question. Yeah, maybe I'm premature. I mean, he's clearly in the running for MVP. Maybe I'm vaulting him up too high. But just what I saw today, I was in awe.

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The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we have a new Rewatchables coming on Monday night. We did Home Alone 2. because it's a Christmas movie, unlike Die Hard. It's also a great New York movie. It was me and Kyle Brandt. You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well.

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And it's a lot of like, it's a little Chiefs-ish.

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Where they're, if it's, if it feels like if it's close in the fourth quarter, you feel like they're going to pull it out and I'll show McVay and he's like high-fiving people and doing that whole thing. The other big scenario that happened today And you could feel coming Thursday after that game flipped with the Chargers and the Broncos.

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It's like all of a sudden Cincinnati is doing the sleeper hold. And since then it's like one, two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They've won three straight. They're missing their left tackle and their right tackle. And their defense is awful. That was pretty good today. And yet somehow they're still alive. And if they're playing Denver at home next week and then at Pittsburgh, which might not mean anything.

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Pittsburgh could be the five seed. Yeah, they could be five or six and not even care. And then they need Miami and Indianapolis to lose. Can I just say something? Which, by the way, Miami's playing Cleveland and the Jets, Indianapolis is playing the Giants and Jaguars.

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The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

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Now, nobody would believe it from the box score. I actually really enjoyed the bad football. I had bets on every game except the Rams-Jets. I'm just like, I'm not going near that. I don't like what we talked about over the Rams. But that Cleveland game was close. Their kicker missed a couple kicks.

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The producers are in Chris's ear like, Chris... please stop saying how the Cowboys have nothing to play for.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

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Dorian Thompson Robinson was terrible at exactly the wrong times, but for the most part seemed pretty competent. Their defense was doing a good job, I thought, against the Bengals. And it felt like they were hanging around, hanging around, and all of a sudden it was going to be 17-13 and they were going to have the ball with five minutes left. I was freaking out too.

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I didn't understand why the Bengals couldn't close it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

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Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's doing that. You don't want to see them. It's like, I think I'd feel good about seeing them. Actually, they can't stop any anybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you have them, you have Denver, who really looks like smoke and mirrors personified. Miami, who actually got a good game from Tua today. We'll talk about that later. And then Indianapolis, who ran for 335 yards today against a terrible Tennessee team. But if you catch them in the right 20 minutes, they look pretty good. And I don't know, one of those teams is going to be the seventh seed.

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And who would you be the most afraid of out of those four?

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What do you think? Who would you be most afraid of? Well, Miami I'd be fired up about because cold weather, they have no chance. Yeah. Indianapolis, Richardson in a playoff road game, no chance. Denver, Bo Nix, I don't see it. Sorry, I know you love Bo Nix. No, it's fine. That team has a good hour in them, and they kind of need the lead, and then they kind of hold on.

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Yeah, Benito turned into one of the best guys in the AFC. I would be the most scared of Cincinnati. I know it sounds like I'm contradicting what I said before, but I think the team that beats Buffalo in the playoffs is just going to be the classic, we outscored them. We won 42-40. We won 38-35. You're not stopping Buffalo anyway, so weirdly the Bengals not having a defense

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I don't know if that matters because whenever Buffalo wants to move the ball downfield, they do. It's interesting about them. Cooper, again, didn't do anything today. One catch for 10 yards.

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And that was their big trade deadline move. It makes me wonder, like, should anyone trade for a receiver during the season? Like the Adams is doing well for the Jets because Rogers is throwing to him 28 times a game trying to get him going. But meanwhile, they scored nine points, but.

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No, but they could win one. And I think if you look back at the season they just had. So what's their record? Are they are they 500 yet? They are. They're seven and eight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1372.998

But they had how many dumb losses? KC, 26-25. Washington, 38-31. That was stupid. Baltimore, 41-38. That was dumb. They lost that other Baltimore game, 35-34. They lost that stupid Chargers game, 34-27. And then they lost that Steelers game when they put up 38 points. They've kind of been around some of these losses. But I do think... I think they could play like a 38 to 35 type game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1401.863

And maybe Burrow is just awesome. So that's who I wouldn't want to play if I was Buffalo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

143.86

Mike, this is the hardest hitting game that doesn't matter at all. And everybody should turn the channel that I've ever seen. That was quite an ending to quite a weekend. And I got to say, I'm footballed out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1430.175

Yeah. Even, even in the Casey game this week was like, God forbid they took a 10 point lead.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1436.957

The other team always has to be within one possession with 10 minutes left for some reason. I will say though, with Casey and it's a little like Usyk watching him just kind of figure out, how to win the last few rounds. You just feel like when you're in your fourth quarter, the Chiefs, you just feel like they're going to figure it out somehow. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1454.964

And it doesn't really make sense as you're watching it. They don't seem really better than any team they're playing. You're not like, whoa, look at those guys. It just always feels like they're just going to make two plays and steal it. But if I was the rest of the league, I'd be dying to play them. I don't know. I just feel like we can beat these guys. Watch this tape. We can take these guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1512.007

It was like an ankle tweak. Yeah. That they tried to sell like it was this terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1522.358

So Denver has Cincinnati and KC left. Chargers have the Pats in Las Vegas, so they're winning with that. Miami, Cleveland, and the Jets. Colts. Giants, who are awful. They are the worst team in the league. They just suck. They're so bad. I was having fun in the first quarter of that game thinking, oh, yeah. They took the lead, 7-0. It's like, okay, just don't make any mistakes, Drew Lock.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1556.33

I'm going to throw some pick sixes. I'm not even going to throw one pick six. I'm going to throw two. I'm going to throw in a Judon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1564.834

So they play the Giants and the Jaguars. The Jaguars are pretty terrible, too. Mm-hmm. So I don't think Cincy's going to make it. Between Miami and Indianapolis, I think one of those teams are going to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1583.676

Special season for the Cleveland quarterbacks. I added up the touchdowns and interceptions. What do you think? Who was the best? Was Jameis the best? Probably the most productive both ways. What do you think for TDs and interceptions for the season? TDs. All the guys combined. 11-21. Oh, that was pretty negative. 18 touchdowns somehow. 20 picks. 18 touchdowns?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

16.604

You can watch all the clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Cousin Sal joins us every Sunday night. You can watch us live on YouTube on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, or you can just watch us on the Spotify app because we run these as video podcasts. Coming up, the Cuz and I breaking down week 16 in a football stretch of games that will seemingly never end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

160.252

I just didn't want to watch this game, especially once Dallas was eliminated, even though they're already eliminated. But I watched it because we had to watch for the pod. But, you know, big picture. This football stretch we're in, we had Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, tomorrow, two Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, nine of 12 days football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1618.295

Well, Jameis had like 13 in six weeks. Yeah, that's true. He went crazy in that one Monday night game too. What would you guess for Thompson Robinson's career? Touchdowns and picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1640.899

nine picks, one touchdown. Is that what it is? Yeah. We probably should talk about that on the ringer Sunday pregame. It's like, Hey, one of these two teams has a guy who has one touchdown and seven picks. Yeah. Now he's got one for nine. All right, switching gears. This NFL Monday Night Football Fan Duel wants you to win even bigger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1664.321

Right now, all customers can get a 30% live profit boost on the Monday Night Football game. That means you can boost your next NFL live bet by 30% and take home even more winnings during the Monday Night Football game. I love the Packers to just destroy New Orleans. I plan as soon as we guess the lines with Sal and then I know what the lines are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1686.083

I plan on taking the Packers money line and putting it with multiple games from week 17. So Packers to win, I'm all in. You can bet on over-unders, spreads, player props, so much more. And if you win, you'll get paid instantly on FanDuel. So don't wait. Download America's number one sports book. Take advantage of a profit boost today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1705.831

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1731.849

I have a segment we're going to call Murder Watch. Oh, good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1738.263

First up, the Raiders murder their top two pick. The Raiders are locked into, it's a two quarterback draft. How do you feel about Cam Ward? What's your take?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1777.506

Well, the Raiders right now it's giants one. They're taking a quarterback. Raiders were the second pick. They desperately need a quarterback, even though I guess I wouldn't say O'Connell was good, but he at least was, you know, it's like when my dad drives to my stepmom's house in Albany, it's like, he got there and you're proud of it. It's like that. Yeah. It's like a compliment. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1800.72

Raiders go from two to six because they lose today. Pats move into two. So all my Pats text threads, if we just hold on, Chargers next week, Buffalo week 18, that two spot. If we just hold on. If we just hold on at three and 14, and then we're in the trade spot. Right. So what do you want? I mean, what do you even want? I mean, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

182.968

And I'm already feeling like I'm at Foga to chow, ready to tap out, ready to turn the card. You're turning the red?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1823.933

Like, let's say the Raiders are six and they want to move up for Shador Sanders at number two. It's at least numbers, the six pick next year's first, some other stuff. Tennessee is going to need a quarterback and the Giants. So three teams in the top seven need a quarterback. There's only two. And what I didn't want was for the Pats to be third.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1843.421

So right now it's Giants, Pats, Jaguars, Tennessee, Cleveland, Vegas, Carolina. And the irony of this is Mac Jones helped us twice. After completely murdering us last year, he wins a game to push them to three wins and push them behind us and then loses to the Raiders, pushes them ahead of us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1869.685

Maybe he is. Maybe it's one of those things. We didn't change the books. Sounds like too much irony.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1891.437

No, it's like, hey, let's take a long look at Kelvin Banks Jr. in Texas. Anyway, I don't know. We'll see what that pick's worth. Because once we get closer to the draft, people start getting excited about the quarterbacks. And then you start forgetting the bad stuff. And I don't know how it's going to play out. All right, that's one murder. Miami murders the Niner season officially.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1913.237

Now, you can say it was on life support. They were awful. And I really don't know where I stand on the Brock Purdy contract extension now because I haven't, like he had another, a couple of terrible plays today. And I don't know, once you start removing those weapons, Debo's not quite Debo anymore. There's no Ayuk anymore. There's no McCaffrey.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

193.19

I can't have any more meat. This is too much, especially the college football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1935.382

And he just looks like another guy that I'm watching who's good at scrambling and occasionally throws the ball for grabs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1954.992

But you and I were both in on him. Like, we were like, this guy's impressive. You gotta hand it to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1976.199

You think all these guys are going out? I wouldn't do it. I don't, I don't want to pay $50 million a year for somebody. That's not a year in the two, a situation again, two was good today, but I don't, do you want to pay two of 50 million a year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

1993.392

I don't know how you build a, how do you build a great team around them? Cause you need a better line. Like Trent Williams has been out and all of a sudden they can't block anymore. Yeah. To me, the question would be, is there a Darnold every year now? And there won't be a Darnold this year because I think if Minnesota doesn't bring him back now, this is lunacy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2012.041

But maybe that's the move is you trade for J.J. McCarthy. You know, the Niners have like the 10th pick in the draft. Maybe they're just like, let's take that guy off your hands.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2044.505

Could be Zach Wilson next year. I guess. Could be Cooper Rush. Oh, interesting. Would you take a first for Cooper Rush or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2056.529

Yeah, I mean, you're probably right. History of the NFL says Donald's a complete anomaly. You can't count on getting lucky like that again. And other teams have tried. But like Gino Smith on Seattle, they were able to patch that together. Yeah. I think it happens a little more than people realize. But what I know doesn't work is paying somebody $50 million who might not be worth it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2098.354

When we did our futures draft before the year, And you tapped out. I won the Fogo to Challenge. I can't wait for next year now that we know it's like whoever taps out first loses. What do you mean? I did? You tapped out. Yeah. Yeah, because I had enough winners. Back and forth. You ran out. I got it. You ran out of futures. I'm going to win. I'm going to win. No, I'm definitely winning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2116.785

I hit more than this. I had some great ones. I had some plus 300s. I had some big ones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

212.459

All the faves hit except for Philly, which we will talk about thanks to Jalen Hurts. But basically any sort of Moneyline parlay with any reliable good to great team. Yeah. Five, six points and up. It was your kind of weekend. I was thinking about you because Usyk was fighting too. Our guy that we love betting on. He hasn't lost since the first Obama term.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2125.196

No, I think I'm going to win. But one of the ones I took at the tail end after you tapped out was Niners under nine and a half wins. And it was plus 260. So that I wish next year, I just want to print all these out. What do you think Niners under seven and a half wins would have been like plus 700? Yeah, that's nuts. Yeah. I think we have to remember that for next year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2150.107

There's always going to be one or two teams that are five wins worse than whatever the over-under is. And with some crazy 7-1 value, try to guess in each conference what team it's going to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2167.678

No, we were dubious. We thought he might be out for the first month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2177.808

They said really maybe a month or they weren't saying anything. It was dodgy. It was dodgy enough that it affected our fantasy draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2193.301

One of your best ones was you had Pat's worst record. Detroit best record was like 36 to one. You're not going to hit it. Oh, but I had, I hit a bunch of like Pat's unders NFC South. I had, I do. I did pretty well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2209.705

It's going to be a good battle. We'll see. There's a lot of ones left, but we did well in the over-unders too. Uh, that Miami Niners game. I don't know what happened in Tyreek. I don't know whether he got paid or he's, but it feels like he's not as, it feels like Johnny Smith's the most valuable offensive weapon they have now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2229.995

But they really ran the ball today. And it was the first time they ran the ball in a while. Now, granted they're playing this Niners team that felt like it was, But it did make me think like this is kind of the Miami team we thought they were going to be before the season. This like speedy team that could also like really pound you with this crazy run game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2248.532

And it feels like they're figuring out a little bit. I thought they played really well in that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2269.796

Sitting all that time? We've been really harsh on him. I thought he was good today, and Tyreek dropped two touchdowns.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2306.71

You're on a heater because the one today was super lucky. It really was. You were going to lose. You were under. HN is up five. Yeah, he's an idiot. With like less than two minutes left. Running for a first down. Most guys in the league fall down on the five yard line. And he's like, fuck it. America needs fantasy points to be over. And he just runs right in for the touchdown.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2338.71

I mailed you guys my 13-pointer today. You had that on there. The Bills-Packers money line. The Bears plus 20, which I somehow won. And then the other one was you're over. I teased it down to 31. They almost had that in the third quarter. You needed it in the fourth. That was good. One other funny thing about that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

234.81

And just get to throw him in with different parlays. You get the Buffalo money line and the Green Bay money line. But Philly was the letdown one. That was awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2358.864

I think Shanahan is my number one coach where it's like they're down between four and seven points and I feel like they have no chance. Remember that? I actually looked it up because I was like, I vaguely remember there was some weird Shanahan comeback thing. He was like 0 for 37 before the playoff game in January. Right. Against Green Bay was the first time they came back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2383.018

But it was yet another one where it's like, yeah, Shanahan, they'll probably not come back. All right. Next murder. Carolina murdered Arizona season. Yeah, they did. And Bryce, who we left for dead last week,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2398.228

outplayed Kyla Murray, who yet again, as a recurring theme with him, both this season and for his career, just cannot stop having three absolutely horrible, abysmal, excruciating plays per game. He can't not do it. And he's been in the league, what, six years? I'm out. I was out already, but I'm like all the way out. Doors closed, locked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2467.719

Very strange. So the guy who kicked the field goal, Chad Ryland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2472.043

was on the Patriots last year and single-handedly lost those three games with terrible kicks and is the reason we have Drake May. There's a couple of people I follow on Twitter that are Pat's people that they call him the tank master, the commander and tank chief because it was like he just brought us home and he went to Arizona and now he's just banging home 58 yarders in bad condition.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2496.217

It doesn't matter. He makes everything. He's a best offensive player. So he hits that And by the way, they got really screwed on a call on the end of that game where he was... Kyler scrambled out of bounds. And they did that weird... This is another NFL call that they just have stopped being consistent on ever. Is the guy... Did he fall forward or not?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2516.607

All of a sudden, the ref's like, no, no, no, keep it going. Even though he seemed like he, you know, was in control of his own out-of-bounds destiny. I haven't figured that out yet. And then the Panthers win an OT. And the Panthers... Now, four wins. This was my lock of the NFC. Five and a half wins under Panthers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2543.859

I'm a little nervous. They're just playing the other teams in the conference.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2555.908

Yeah, they played Tampa. They're on the road. Tampa and Atlanta. They're not going to win both of those. Yeah. They got to start thinking about top five picks now. Am I good with the NFC South? 25 wins? How many is it now? They're all playing each other. It's going to be closer to 30. I'm a little worried. That was my all-time lock. Oh, there's 25 so far.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2588.476

Yeah, Tampa's 8, 16, 20. They have 25. And there's like three where they're playing each other where somebody wins. So that's like 27. I think I'm going to get it. But I can't believe I'm sweating it out. And then we're going to win our NFC East one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2615.298

I'm furious that I'm sweating it out. Next one. The Rams. Somehow re-murdered the Jets season. It felt like this was like positive vibes with the Jets. Enigma came out. They won last week. It's like, oh, Rodgers, if you look at his stats, this is the best season a Jets QB has had in like 12 years. All that stuff. Nope. They sucked. And he sucked. He was terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2681.83

I will tell you another person who's not going to be back. Ulbricht. He's the 2024 Brandon Staley award winner. I don't think anyone has a worse sense of when to go for it, when to go for it on fourth down, when to punt. He just fucks it up every time. It's like, whatever's, whatever's going to work. He's like, I'll just do the opposite. Let me try that. This guy will never be a head coach again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2712.002

How about you'll never be a head coach again? Can we call him that? Is that a good nickname? Yeah, it's a little long. I don't know. A little long. On a license. I just feel like we should have appreciated Pit Boss Rich a little more when we had him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2725.165

And the whole concept of an interim coach with like real character coming in and just being like a substitute teacher. I don't know. There's a Garrett Wilson subplot with the Jets. that you can really feel when you're watching them. I just don't think he's going to be on that team next year. And I would love to get him on the Patriots. I'd take him right now. Oh, yeah. I think he's really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

273.139

He kept texting me. Hench is like diametrically opposed to Chris Nowitzki in concussion protocol. So get him back in there. And then our friend Brad, who hasn't won our knockout league, I don't think since we've had the knockout rule, but he's been voted out three times. Yeah, I haven't heard from him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2747.562

And I think Rodgers is just favoring Adams or Lazard or whatever guy he has some history with over like Garrett Wilson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2764.63

Come to the Patriots. Don't play with Drake.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2775.077

Forget it. Garrett Wilson murdered two of my fantasy teams. Here's another murder. Gerard Mayo murdered analytics. I don't know if you caught this. So when the Pats punted From the New England 45 on fourth and six, 833 remaining in the fourth, down 10, punting to Josh Allen, the MVP of the league. A surrender index, according to Surrender Twitter, surrender index of 9.08.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2801.826

It ranked in the 95th percentile of cowardly punts of the 2024 season and the 91st percentile of all punts since 1999. Another chapter for Gerard Mayo's new book, Scared Football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2841.451

The announcers were praising the Pats today because they rolled Drake May out a couple of times. They played with pace. They did a fake punt. They were like the Patriots aggressive. I'm like, we're three and 11. Like, of course, what are we, what are we protecting?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2865.59

Never, never, ever, never, ever did. I think we were winning that game. Cause if I had been panicking about the draft pick, There would have been a moment in that game where I was like, holy shit, we're going to blow this and actually win. But it was the perfect game. Drake may know... He knows the program. Do just enough. Get everyone excited. He's going to have a couple dumb 21-year-old plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2887.247

He has every game because he's 21 years old. But... I love him. Let me ask you something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2908.836

Well, you did. Mac Jones was always like a game manager. This guy. Oh my God. So Dabundo sent me something. NFL offensive success rate leader since week 10. Lions, Packers, Ravens, Bengals, Bills, Rams, Patriots. Yeah. Drake Bay is good. We have nobody. We have no receivers. We can't block. We have a running back that has seven fumbles this year. There's been a seven fumble player since 2020.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2939.186

You did. I'm just saying, be careful. You did love Mac Jones. I'll go further. Yeah. My favorite Boston rookie of the 21st century. What? Yeah. Yes. Really? Yeah. I'm all in. I'm all in. I'm happy to be haunted with this clip forever. Drake May is a sure thing. All the Pat's fans are nodding now. We've been watching. He's fucking incredible. Team sucks. Wait a minute.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2964.027

Wasn't Mookie Betts a rookie for you? Yeah, I love Mookie Betts. I have him above Mookie Betts. And I love Mookie Betts. Oh, man. It's so hard to get a quarterback. It's like the fucking single hardest thing to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

297.136

Yeah, so Hurts ends up with 4.5 points. He crushes anybody who had him. Not his fault, but not the big story from that game because Jaden Daniels not only locked down offensive rookie of the year, I think, five TDs, 82 rushing, another come-from-behind win. Another like super exciting DC moment. Yeah. And it feels like his mojo came back the last couple of years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

2976.55

You could go decades without one. I really thought after Brady, we'd have no chance to ever have one again. And now we have this fucking guy fell out of the sky. It's amazing. And the funny thing is he might not even be the best quarterback in his class because Daniels is also amazing. But like if you gave Caleb versus Drake May, it's like no contest. I can't believe you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3010.674

If Harrison started to be like a lifeguard at the beach. Oh, this is personal now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3016.98

My Harrison or James Harrison? Mine. And he just swam out and saved somebody's life. Still wouldn't like him. He'd be like, wow, that was nice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3038.168

The first drive today, he did five, six things that were like, I can't believe he didn't get sacked. I can't believe he got out of that. I can't believe he threaded the needle to booty. He was covered by two guys. How did he get on the ball? He's incredible. And then he sucked in the second half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3056.51

Well, not that much. That you could believe. No, I'm super excited about Drake Bane. You're not going to pour water on it. All right. And I'd be excited for Harrison if he was a great lifeguard and just saving lives every week. I think both of those are over exaggerated. Three and 12. Have you been watching him? I have. He's like shockingly good. What the fuck? What? Really? Yeah. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3077.683

All right. I got to look. Give, give somebody who's super talented, the worst coaching, the worst play calling, the worst blocking and the worst receivers. And then they're still going to get 28 first downs on the road against Buffalo. I'm just saying, be careful because we've saw Trevor Lawrence.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3094.591

Trevor Lawrence never did this as a rookie. He was never this competent ever in his life. I can't believe you have three wins. Here's what's going to happen. Mark my words. The nerds are going to come out. This was a winnable game today. We've had like seven winnable games because of him. We have no good players. We have him and Gonzalez. Here's what's going to happen this week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3114.337

The nerds, when they do the EQ, all the fancy stats, May is going to be amazing in these different stats, like the PFF, all that stuff. I'm telling you, he's going to be great. You and the nerds, you should watch games with the nerds. Can we bring in Kyle for a second? Kyle, are you listening to this? Kyle, tell Sal how good Drake May is because he doesn't seem to believe me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3143.645

He's really good. All right. You turned me around. I didn't, I didn't believe you, but just be on the right side of history. This Drake may as a guy, it's a guy, he's a guy. This is happening. How much are you going to pay for him in fantasy next year? I'll say this. He's going to be on all my fantasy teams going forward. Really? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3170.915

It's fine. It's great. I love Tatum. Tatum, first year, I was like, this guy's got it. We got somebody. This guy's like a special guy. And I feel the same way about Drake May. Felt the same way about Ray Bork in 1979. It's like, this guy's a guy. Your favorite rookie. I gotta look back. You're missing somebody here. Mookie Betts, same thing. Mookie Betts is a rookie. It's like, this guy has it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3192.343

And he did have it. He did have it. And then he took it down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3197.006

He'll be around. All right, we'll see. The Saturday games. Baltimore handled Pittsburgh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3214.15

Is it a Pickens thing? Or is this, this is always who Russ was?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

322.949

He was definitely hurt there for, I don't know how long, but now he's starting to look like him again, but that was such a great win. It felt like they had lost that game five different times. I didn't even know if it was a bad Eagles loss. You know, they had Kenny Pickett. And I had the Eagles in a parlay. And Kenny Pickett's in there halfway through the first quarter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3244.059

Yeah, I agree. I just feel like with Pickens, I'm not willing to make a definitive anything on them until Pickens is back. I want to see what that looks like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3256.883

Pittsburgh has to win out of there, the five seed. The other team is Houston, who I thought was on pace to maybe win that KC game. That tank down injury was one of the worst injuries in a while. It seemed like it sucked the life out of the game. It sucked the life out of them. All of a sudden, they only had one receiver. But it felt like they had a real chance to win that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3277.578

And I liked the way their defense was playing. After that, it was like, eh, they're not going to win this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3317.563

Yeah, that was it. So we had those two games. We had terrible college football games. But we had the fight. It was awesome. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. And both of us had a lot of money. I knew he was sick. And after round five, I was super worried because it felt like Fury had put on so much weight. It just felt like he was too big.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3343.593

And it felt like he had somehow stayed in enough shape to battle Usyk. And it felt like Usyk could not figure it out. And then, of course, he figured it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3374.09

And Fury was determined not to be leaned on, be trapped against the ropes. He was always trying to stay in the middle, moving around. Could we see it again?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3392.836

Like, why not? Just keep fighting. It was great. I would watch Usyk fight anybody. I really love how he kind of changes his style depending on who he's going against. He'll go back and forth between Southpaw and Regular. He's always up to shit. What about Drake May?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

341.503

And you're going, what the fuck? Like, I definitely never wanted to bet on Kenny Pickett again in my life. But he actually wrote me in. I was like, he seems okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3415.621

Kyle, come on. Drake May is a little brother. He's got beaten up by his brothers for his entire childhood. Does Drake May beat Usyk in a fight, Kyle? I love Drake May. I am happy to die on this hill. Good. I am happy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3432.951

So far, remember when Dak was good those first couple games with Dallas and you were like, you were like, fuck, Dak might actually be good. And you kind of just slowly realized, oh, we have a guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3455.368

A couple of random observations for you. Brian Thomas Jr. Yeah, really good. I think he's the best rookie receiver. The stuff he's doing in these games with the quarterbacks he's had and the amount of times he's been overthrown and all the different things they ask him to do, he's just terrifying. I feel like he's like a top seven receiver now, right? If we're doing fantasy again right now,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3516.868

Thomas Jr. has to have the degree of difficulty of how bad his quarterbacks have been.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3521.692

And I don't know. I'd love to see a montage of how many times he's been wide open and somebody threw it over his head. But it's at least four times that I can remember watching. But he went 23rd, so. Yeah. And Adunze went over him. Neighbors went over him. Marvin Harrison went over him. And there was three teams that needed a receiver. And then he dropped. And he dropped.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3548.057

And if you go look at the little pocket of players, all the players are good. Like Jared Verse, you go on through. Um, but I was like, God damn, I wish the Pats had traded up for him or somebody like imagine if Casey had traded up for him. He was right in that zone where it would have been pretty easy to move up like five, six spots and grab them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3567.034

But yeah, he just seems like he's a home run pick for them. So,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3586.465

I will say Van Lathan, LSU fan who watched him there, was adamant that he was going to be awesome. He was like, I don't understand why he's the fourth guy and why, like, how did they decide that he was just the fourth best guy out of all these guys? The guy was incredible in college. Jared got 33 touchdowns this year. Wanted to mention that. Touchdown passes. Outside chance for 40. Mm-hmm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3621.224

I was just thinking like, that's one of the great random trades of this century. That Stafford-Goff trade, how it rejuvenated the line. I know people have talked about it a million times, but Goff just being miles, leaps and bounds better than you ever could have expected if you're the Lions and you're getting him. And then Stafford wins the Super Bowl. But imagine me telling you three years ago,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3644.827

Goff is going to be the quarterback on a team that's 13-2, and he's going to have 33 touchdown passes with two weeks to go. You'd have been like, what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3673.291

I wrote down Caleb has replaced Kyler as the new king of garbage time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3678.994

Down 20. They fucking lights it up. Look out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3754.981

I would have been more outraged about that, but the Patriots have done that to Drake May like four times this year where they've caught the ball and then just whipped it to the other team. That should have a name when a guy does that. It shouldn't count as an interception for the quarterback. It should be like a team interception or something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3781.69

Last thing I had before it gets the lines. Ricky Henderson. Great, Matt. Kind of ahead of his time. Would have been really great with the internet. Like social media, he would have been a whole other level of famous, notorious, everything. I remember doing the unintentional comedy rating, like doing that whole, like he was one of the unintentionally funniest athletes we've ever had.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

380.855

There were two because there was that long one to Barkley, too, was another backbreaker that he should have. By the way, the Giants fans have always said he never catches those. He's got he's got like butterfingers on big pass plays. And that was he had another one. But the Devonta Smith one, there was a lot of those today, though, in the cold weather games. I think we forget how cold it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3812.611

He was also great to watch. There was nobody like him. He was way ahead of his time with the on-base steals, power, like all the stuff like we knew in the 21st century mattered. but we didn't really know in the previous century. And in person was one of like the seven or eight most memorable baseball players I ever went to see in person, right? Is this the same for you? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3864.301

The third person stuff was so fucking funny with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3867.903

Like he, other people have done it and he did it the best. I remember, um, I went to Yankee stadium once with a couple of my high school friends and we sat in the left field bleachers. He was playing left field. It was like late eighties and, uh, he'd run out every inning and our whole section was just screaming, Ricky, Ricky, trying to get him to turn around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3890.609

And he came out every inning for like five, six innings and he wouldn't turn around. And we're just, yeah, we're drinking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3899.794

He's just stonewalling us. Nothing. And then like the sixth inning, we're like, Ricky, Ricky. And then finally he turned around. huge smile on his face and tipped his hat, but we'd been doing it for like two hours. We were like, what was the tipping point for him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3914.881

I said like, we couldn't have done that in the third inning, but it was just, we just, it was so much fun to just watch him like walk around, interact with people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3933.273

I felt like he was on a lot of teams, too. Like, he was on the Red Sox. He was. You do Immaculate Grid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3942.782

Yeah. We had a fun year with him just watching him. I mean, he was an older version of himself. All right. Guess the lines. What's the score?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3957.08

Sal, I don't know if you know this, but there's Christmas Day games this year on Wednesday. Are there really? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3971.686

How is that going to work? 20 people doing the two games. Pretty much everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

3980.973

It's your nightmare. You hate that. Well, it seems like they're only going to have four or five people on the thing. But the good news for them is nothing can be worse than Jack Collinsworth interviewing Tony Dungy. What is that segment? Why doesn't Jack Collinsworth get to make points? He's like, Tony, what do you think about their defense? So you're just setting him up for questions?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

399.971

Like the Bills-Pats game, by the second half, everybody looked like they were wearing oven mitts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4021.45

Let's get a drink. I can watch these two teams play till March. Secondary. Christmas Day, Chiefs at Steelers. So spoiler alert, I have home underdogs for both games. Chiefs at Steelers. I have Chiefs by two and a half in Pittsburgh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4047.338

Should be two and a half. You need a Pickens back for this game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4065.851

I might sneak a little. I don't know what the NBA is doing with the scheduling. Three games today. God forbid they had a game going against Cincinnati and Dallas on Sunday night, a game that literally meant nothing. God forbid they had one game going against that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4080.22

No. Didn't make sense. They're like intentionally shooting themselves in the foot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4093.068

It's a bored Celtics team. Just waiting to get to April now. The Celtics are, anytime they're favored by 10 and up against anybody, you got to be careful. Just don't know. Like that first Bulls game they played. I know in the first quarter, I'm like, oh, it's one of these games. Okay. I got it. Well, let me know because I'll live bet against them. I know you won't, but just send me a little text.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4117.774

Tatum's been great. Next one is Ravens at Houston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4135.696

SD Jones. Ivan Putski. He's perfect, actually. Yeah. I have the Ravens by two and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4172.909

Thursday. So we have two Wednesday games and then somehow they're like, let's also have a Thursday game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4181.787

Seahawks at the Bears. I have another road favorite. I have Seahawks by two and a half. I changed this. I had three and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4206.836

That fixed it. It really is something. Sunday marquee. This is a really good game. Vikings Packers in Minnesota. It's like one of the five best games of the year. Really good. I had the Vikings by two because I don't think, I think people, there's a shred of doubt, like which even you have. It should be a three, but I'm going to say Vikings by two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

424.668

10-5 right now? Mm-hmm. The Hail Mary was stupid. They had one other really stupid win. And then this one. But, I mean, this one they earned. You know? Like, you have... What was it? First down and goal from the nine under 20 seconds left. That should be, like, the most... It's like a nine-yard two-point conversion. Guy's wide open. The Eagles just completely fucked it up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4242.036

I mean, what do you mean Jesus? No, people like this Packers team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4246.679

One and a half is like that's an even field line now. That means if it was in Green Bay, it would be Green Bay by one and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4260.408

People like the Packers. Wow. So Steelers-Packers is a tease. Look at that one. Watchables. I got four and it's mostly playoff related. Chargers at the Pats because the Chargers need it. I think it's a game to watch. It'll also be fun because Drake May is really good at football. You'll enjoy watching him. Drake May fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4291.312

Oh, see, I didn't mark down my Saturday games. Oh, this screws you up. This screws you up, buddy. I win the week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4299.874

No, no, no. I win the week. It's fine. Chargers-Pats. I have the Chargers by four in New England.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4316.319

It's too high. I like the Pats. No. Have you seen their quarterback? The problem for the Pats in this game is they had the lad McConkie pick. Number 34 traded backwards three spots to 37 to take Polk. Right. And then with the fourth rounder they got, they took Baker and McConkie on Thursday night had more yards in that game than those two guys had the entire season. Polk was good though. Shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4348.72

I don't know what happened. Next Saturday game is Bengals-Broncos. This is in Cincinnati. And I think there's going to be a little irrational Bengals love that pushes this line over three to three and a half. Bengals by three and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4381.122

I'm on it. I didn't realize that I actually did this correctly. Because the third one I have, I just wrote down watchables and I meant to write down Saturday. Because the other one is Rams-Cardinals, which is also a pretty good game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4395.609

Although the cards have been eliminated. It's in LA. And I'm going to say Rams by four and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4405.974

Oh. Notice I'm on with these picks. I'm very close. This is usually a good sign for my betting. The Cardinals beat them 41-10 in September? Yeah, that was when the Rams were all banged up, though. Jeez. Fairly watchables. Tampa Bay Buccaneers home for the Carolina Panthers. In a game that I think is almost guaranteed to be Joe House's underdog Moneyline special on the ringer Sunday pregame.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4438.739

He shouldn't do it. Lock it down. I have bucks by eight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4454.33

I don't think I would tease Tampa because of that. I didn't love their defense. That was another iffy game for them. Okay, next fairly watchable. Dolphins at Cleveland. What does fairly mean anymore? I got to look up fairly. Well, it's an important game for the Dolphins. The Browns are always a dumpster fire. It's cold weather. Miles Garrett. This game can go in a lot of directions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

447.944

But... So, in that case, I felt like that was almost... It wasn't a bad Eagles loss until that last drive. Because if your defense is that good, everybody's like, this is the most well-rounded, including me. This is the most well-rounded team that Detroit's done. Their defense is gone. The Eagles, they can get stops.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4480.882

I have Dolphins by six and a half. I get this. I said six. It is five and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4488.948

Six to five, you're up. That would be a nice little cold weather test for the Dolphins if it's cold. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4504.194

Is there another quarterback they can play? Are they down the road with Thompson Robinson? Is there anybody else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4523.056

And I would have said 10.5 before what I watched today. And now, I'm going to say 9.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4542.025

That's too high, especially because I'm not convinced Hurts plays next week. Are you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4557.052

It's his first, though, right? Is this his first concussion? But the game doesn't... 100% matter for them. Yeah, I guess you're right. Like, why wouldn't they be taking it easy with them and just play pick it for a week?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4570.289

Four Poopfecta games. Bills, Giants, and Buffalo. I got Bills by 12 and a half. Jets, right? Bills, Jets. My bad. Yeah. Bills minus 12 and a half against the Jets. Oh, no. I had 10. It's nine and a half. Too low.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4593.384

Saints home for the Raiders. Awful game. Mm-hmm. I have the Saints by two and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4605.673

Colts at the Giants. What's crazy is I don't think the Giants can be getting under a touchdown against anybody at this point who's half decent to somewhat crappy. No, they can.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

466.145

Not only did they not get stops, like that was like one of the worst touchdowns anyone's given up this year. It was really bad. Wide open in the middle of the end zone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4664.628

You say what you need to say to help yourself. That's what you got. Thank you. I mean, we agreed that minus one and a half is the neutral field line, right? I know. They shouldn't even have a line on this. Are the Jags one iota better than the Titans or vice versa? They both suck. I mean, that's a neutral field line.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4711.921

You get like a three-way tie at 10-7. I guess that's what it would be. If they had clinched, we would have heard that they clinched.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4720.449

Oh, and by the way, they're playing Atlanta, which is one of the teams that could catch them. Washington minus three and a half is my guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4738.787

They factored in the Kyle Pitts team interception. Last one. Monday night. A game that I guarantee they were thinking was going to be fucking awesome. Detroit at San Francisco. This was like ESPN. It was probably one of their first draft picks when they draft... what games they want to have for Monday night. It's probably a top three game, right? Oh, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4762.772

Let's put that December after the Monday after Christmas, Lions Niners. That's going to be one of our best games. We'll have an awesome manning cast. Well, the joke's on you because this game's going to suck. Lions minus six and a half is my guess. Wow. I said five and a half. It is three and a half, Bill.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4791.553

What? Three and a half. What's the explanation for that? The Lions need the game. They're trying to get the one seed. How does that make sense?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4808.162

You know, I'm in an unbelievable hedge situation with the Lions one seed if they win that game. Because we both have, we have a lot of one seed money. Yeah. Yeah. We're like, we had them at like six to one. They're going to be home for Minnesota week 18. Right. Yeah, sure. If they win, they get the one seed. If they lose, they don't get the one seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4828.497

We'll be able to take the Minnesota money line and just walk away with a profit. And yet we won't do it because we're going to have that heat moment. Where you do the Tom Sizemore and you go, for me, the action is the juice. Let's ride the Lions. And all of a sudden, we're riding the Lions. That's how it's going to play out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

483.779

Those games are always weird with them though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4856.684

Well, the parlay would be they'd have to beat Green Bay and Detroit. Yeah, but if they lose this game. But the odds wouldn't be. Right. I don't think the odds are worth how hard that's going to be to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

486.401

How many weird Philly Washington games can we have? It's true. And then there's always like fans from either side at both of the games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4871.744

Do they have the odds? I'm going on FanDuel now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4886.294

You know, another interesting thing that happened, speaking of FanDuel, did you see the MVP ads? I have not looked. Cause Alan, Alan wasn't awesome today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4896.161

It's down to minus four 50. Right. They're playing. Who did, who did they say? Who'd we say they're playing this week? They're playing the jets and then week 18 pats. He might not even play. And then Lamar's playing on Christmas. Trying to get the two-seater and three-seed. Lots of eyeballs there, yeah. So Lamar is plus 380 now for MVP. He'll have to win the division, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4922.224

I think if he's incredible on Christmas, it's in play. But Allen was 9-1 Thursday. Now he's minus 450. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4935.147

And then make the playoffs odds... Cincinnati's 22-1 not to make the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4945.575

That went up from this morning? If you bet them to make the playoffs, it's plus 1040. It was 680. They have a worse shot now. I guess because of the Colts and Dolphins. You know why?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

496.687

But like a lot of these top teams, you could say that for, well, the weird part was, uh, I just, I didn't understand like that, that the 12 man on the field guys running off all of a sudden, they're just giving up like a 70 yard touchdown to give them the lead. There's a lot of stuff I didn't like with them, but you look at the playoff picture, like they're locked into the two seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4975.734

Yeah, but they're the Colts. I know. They really are. Richardson just loves to throw. They're playing the Giants, so they'll win next week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

4984.278

But then they're home against the Jags. I guess that's pretty easy. Those might be two of the three worst teams in the league. Yeah. The Jags will try, though. So Indy...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5016.674

Is Denver in if they win? I think they have to win the last two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5044.957

Yeah, maybe they just have, or maybe they have to win one and then all the other variables if anyone loses anything. So they have one seed bets on Fandle. Detroit's minus 310. Minnesota's plus 310. Eagles are 17 to 1. They're not winning. So we could hedge right now with the Vikings plus 310 if we wanted to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5074.554

The worst defense. What do you think, Raheem? The bank is worth the risk. Raheem's threatening to go in another cold funk, by the way. I'm worried about him. What do you mean? He lost a couple bets. He was all upset in the text thread.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5093.326

What could go wrong? What could go wrong? We'll see him for a round one in my house. Yeah. I don't know what kind of shape he's going to be in mentally, what kind of shape JJ's going to be in. What if we get Dolphins in round one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5110.227

Oh, that's what we need. So Rudy says the Broncos only have to win one of the next two to get in, which we probably should have known. Minus 280, yeah. That's at Cincy, home KC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5160.311

to 2 p.m. The fight was at like 130. Got it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5189.641

It's layaway plans. Is it layaway? Yeah. When we get old and we're dying and they're taking care of us. If they complain at all, we're like, I was at that fucking wrestling tournament for you when you were 15. I wasted my whole Saturday. It was a great sports day. You're going to go get me a glass of water now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

519.58

Right. So they, they have Dallas and the giants left Dallas. Your team is like a surprisingly hard out now. I don't think that's, a cross off by any means, especially if they decide to sit Hertz for a week. So if it's you against Penny, can you pick it next week? Hey, you might be eight and eight. So they're locked into the two seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5267.867

Consurance. Consurance. So your dad, if he had played the consurance card a couple years ago, is anything different? No. You're spending more time with him on the weekends?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5281.195

You're like, I've lost your insurance papers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5304.99

I mean, I'm lying for Ben tonight. He's got girls over and he's like, don't tell mom. I'm like, all right, I won't tell her. Oh shit. I'm on a live YouTube. I guess I said something. He's got to take you to the Celtics. I'm going to invite people over while my dad's doing a podcast in a different room in the house. Perfect. Yeah, it's great. In fact, we probably should wrap it up soon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5324.725

Uh, yeah, I'm going to cash in on my, my Kinsurance. I love it. Um, So mine. So I think you just said yours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5339.898

My stepmom, who has been in my life since the mid 80s. And the whole time when we met her, she was like a young when my dad met her, she was a young doctor. Right. And, you know, doing the crazy hours like you would see on the Grey's Anatomy and just like nuts. And then eventually that got better and better at a practice. She's been, you know, delivering babies, doing all kinds of stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

536.788

And then, um, the, the, the one seed is just bizarre where Detroit feels like they, they've lost like one time in three months. And yet somehow Minnesota is controlling everything. If they just win their last two games, they're going to be the one seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5366.253

OBGYN forever. And this is this is end of the year. She's done retiring. Really? Yeah. That's it. Great career. Saw a lot of female body parts. Yeah. Delivered a lot of babies.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5383.2

Had a lot of, and it's a weird thing because like Zoe had a playoff game um, like a month ago and the coach came over the other team for the game. And it was, and Molly was like, my stepmother was like, Oh, I delivered her baby. And it's like, she just runs into these people who she's delivered babies and done these, you know, the most intimate kind of like doctor patient things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5404.801

And it's like, Oh, this is Jessica. I've delivered three of her kids. So anyway, she's wrapping it up. Um, so I thought since this is a nice moment, um, I would tell a story about my stepmother, who I don't know if I've done much on Parent Corner, who doesn't like to be talked about at all and is probably mortified right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5424.768

Um, when she, when I was in going to college in, uh, Worcester, but then I was living in Boston, I would go hang out with my dad and we would watch sports, you know, we'd go watch like South, the game football game. I would just go over, we'd get dinner and she would always be on call. And part of the reason I would be over is like, Oh, we'll watch sports. Molly's not gonna be home.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5444.583

Like she, she wouldn't want to watch her car would always, you would see like they had this driveway in front of where the TV was in the window. And there would be like a minute left and be like, tie game. We'll be back after this to see what happens with Larry Bird and the Celtics. And then the headlights would be in the driveway and it would be like, oh, she's home.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5466.391

And then she would come in and my dad would have to talk to her about her day. as like the last minute of these games. And I used to think it was like the funniest thing ever. I was like, oh my God, like uncanny timing for, for showing up anytime there's a big moment. Right. And I thought it was like a, like a couple of time coincidence thing, but it became something that happened all the time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5489.823

And I was telling my buddy Gus about this and he had the same thing with his wife. Where he'd be watching like a Mets game and she'd come home with the groceries. Oh my God, I got to tell you a story. And it's like, I think some people have this power and other people don't. Where they show up At the perfectly wrong time of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5508.109

So I was like, well, when I get married, that's never going to happen to me. And then I met my wife, same thing shows up, comes, comes home right there in these huge moments. Like I saw it. Do you think some people just have these powers? It's like a magnet because my stepmother, I feel like invented it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5546.491

Oh, waiting to fuck with us? Waiting, yes. Oh, that's interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5558.303

I like that. Her favorite Celtic was Robert Parrish. Nice. Still wears the Parrish jersey or the KG jersey to the games. Really? When my dad met her, she didn't know anything about sports. Like nothing, didn't have a TV. And now has this whole Celtic sister. Anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5574.802

Dr. Molly Clark, hanging it up. End of the year. Great job by her. Great job by you, Dr. Molly Clark.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5617.018

How many people during those two Christmas games? How many people are you going to have to navigate? Nine. That's not bad. Nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5624.451

Not too bad. You know what's interesting? The games are earlier. Yeah, right. Because they wanted to get them on in Europe. So the first game's at 10 o'clock. It's almost like Thanksgiving time. And then the second one's at 1.30. There's no night game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5654.318

But the little, the little kids part though, that's like in the morning you open, you take the pictures and then at 10 o'clock you're like, all right, I'll see you guys later. Mahomes is on. It's tough. It's a tough one to pull off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5671.962

A lot of babies, babies. They named babies after her. That's great. Like hundreds of Molly's in the, in the New England area. Cause everybody likes her. Amazing. Good job. Hanging it up. Speaking of hanging it up, we're hanging up the podcast. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. Sal, I'm going to be back with the rewatchables on Monday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5692.508

And then I'm not going to be back on this podcast till Thursday. When, what's your schedule going to be?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5737.27

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

5758.52

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

582.336

I can't believe you just used the word keister. Yeah. Is that not allowed? No, no. It's just mid-70s people and up. It's like Aunt Chippy and your dad might have gotten that one and that's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

597.861

I bet on Minnesota this week. Oh, you did? And mainly because we have all these Seattle bets. Um, but I've also, I I'm the same way. I said uncle with them a while ago. They're, they're legit. I don't know how many times they have to do it. And I thought what was interesting about that game. So rooting for Minnesota to score, Seattle takes the lead. Minnesota is down four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

620.253

They actually have to go down and score a touchdown. There's like five minutes left and I'm sitting there on the couch. where I haven't moved for like, I don't know how many hours. And I'm like, I think Donald's going to get this. Like, I swear that was my feeling in the car. I was like, he's going to get it. I really think he's going to go down the field and score.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

642.985

Sitting on the couch. You know what's funny about those is when I'm doing that as a joke to make you laugh, and then it gets cut out as blog posts. It's like, look at this weirdo, dude.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

655.193

You can't cut that out and try to make fun of me when I'm doing a joke.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

660.858

Yeah, I was like, oh my God, what's he doing? It's like, I'm doing a joke. But anyway, Minnesota down four. And Darnold, he's done it, I don't know how many times this year. but there's seven, eight quarterbacks in the league that I feel like can get that done. It wasn't an easy scenario, but he's got these two great receivers that always seem to be open in the right times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

682.15

But that throw breaks through. He's got pressure cuts through throws like almost like a semi sidearm. He's got to beat the safety. It was just a great play. And then Gino became Gino at the end of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

69.951

Sal, are you happy? What are your emotions right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

717.625

They were double teaming him. Yeah, they were taking him out. They were like, go throw to Addison and go throw to Hawkinson. They're only going to get better, I think. And so why am I going to bet against them again? God damn. I think you could, if we're just going, who do you trust the most right now? I think there's a real case for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

738.394

Because it always feels like they can score when they need a touchdown. Their defense can create enough havoc that they can get some stops. They always seem to grab a turnover when they really need one. Van Ginkle is always in. And they're exceptionally coached. We make fun of coaches a lot. Like my Patriots today. who had two really good drives in a row to start the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

759.432

But then as the game went along, the wheels start to come off. We had a backward lateral on like our own eight yard line that ended up getting recovered for defensive touchdown. Like, what are we doing? Why are we having Drake May whip a screen pass to Stevenson, who's already fumbled, who isn't exactly Mr. Hands in nine degree weather inside our own 10 yard line? Like, what are we doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

782.526

Why are we punting from, you know, midfield when we're down 10? You watch that stuff. And then you watch Minnesota. We had the nice fake there. That was fun. Well, we had the fake punt. But then you watch Minnesota and it's like, I just, I agree with everything they're doing. This team has it. They're really well coached. Flores is great on defense. O'Connell knows the fuck he's doing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

802.527

Really good team. I'm in on the Vikings. I think they're legit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

834.028

Yeah, the Pats had 28 first downs on the Bills defense today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

838.293

Wow. We have no receivers. We have an offensive coordinator that will do 10 dumb things a game. That was a winnable game. It was. We've had like six winnable games. Maybe it wasn't that good in the second half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

867.385

Why are you making fun of me? My team, I have the second pick in the draft right now. Antonio Pierce. That is nice. Antonio Pierce, like fist pumping in the sidelines. Like we did it. We dropped from two to six. We got this. Wait, going back to that. Let's talk Washington, Philly, Minnesota, that whole vortex. So the Hertz concussion is,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

891.55

I think it's in the running for one of the biggest football moments of the year because it didn't just feel like it swung the seeds. It also happened during semifinals in fantasy. I was trying to think of like what injury that, you know, he'll be fine in a week or so, but what like relatively minor, but sucky injury would have had more impact on more people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

913.251

Hurts is like a top five fantasy quarterback. Like I guarantee he was on all this. So it was just like a crazy moment. And then watching Pickett go in there and you're thinking like for Washington, like this is really good for them. Like they, if they're any good, they should probably steal this game. And then they couldn't do it for two hours. But so that happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

931.759

And then the Minnesota thing and Seattle's out now, it seems like, right. I mean, they're not officially out, but.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

941.542

I know, but they're a game back. They basically need the Rams to lose next week. They need to win next week, and then they need to beat the Rams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

956.305

So weird with them. You know what's weird about them? They're like a January team. They're like the opposite of what their profile is. You know, like you think of them, you think that they're like this dome team. They're going to be in these 37. They're in these ugly, like 19 to 16, 20 to 17. Like that, that's kind of makes more sense when you're watching them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

96.986

I thought you were doing Collinsworth, but you're doing Sal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

976.95

If the jets didn't, I don't think they punted today or they punted, they punted once, but just like ugly turnovers going for it on fourth down, not getting it. Um, I don't know. They're like one of those boxers that you can't figure out what their style is. They run the ball really well some weeks. Other weeks, they don't. Some weeks, Stafford looks like he's 40.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NFL’s Holiday Overload, Darnold’s Crazy Year, Week 16 Murders, and Guess the Lines

998.853

Other weeks, he looks like he's 25. I don't have a handle on them at all, do you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

0.229

You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

1000.708

Four point game. Yeah. Didn't never felt like it, but then all of a sudden it was close. When you did all the draft work for the Jabari Smith draft, did you think he would be a better scorer than this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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We did this live on YouTube at nine o'clock. So you're about to listen to it. First, our friends from ProJet. All right, 9.04 p.m. Russillo and I are going live on YouTube for the BS Podcast. Russillo, good to see you. We just watched eight games in two days, including the Warriors beating the Rockets in a rock fight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I like them. The most, the Rockets, the offense was brutal to watch, but they, there was one time in the fourth quarter when they posted up Thompson on Curry and he kind of, and he kind of whirled into the paint, had this little jump hook.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I was like, Hmm, that's something like, instead of just having these guys facing the basket and flying toward the basket and bouncing off dudes, whipping off the backboard, maybe try to use their athleticism, try to put them in different parts of the thing. So we'll see what they do heading into game two. I still think it's going to be a long series. That's where I sit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Hey, Rosillo, are you a forward thinker? Because if you are, you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do. Workday is the AI platform that helps propel your organization, your workforce, and your entire industry into the future. Workday, moving business forever forward, which leads us to Minnesota and the Lakers. They make this town's trade right before the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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They get DiVincenzo, and they get Randall, and it's controversial. And the trade was on full display yesterday. And I thought Towns was excellent in that Pistons game. But Minnesota looked really good against the Lakers. And I think the thing that I saw last night, re-watching that game, because I was at WrestleMania last night, but I was able to power through it this morning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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What do you think of that? I have some Cena stuff for you at the end. Cool. Minnesota's just... I'll give you a heads up. Minnesota's just really comfortable wherever they're playing. I think that's my favorite thing about them. They're just really comfortable. They don't care if they're in LA. They don't care if they're playing against LeBron and Luka.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're an irrational confidence team personified. And you saw it last night. And granted, they shot the lights out. But I saw a team that walked in there and thought, we have the best team in this series and we're winning this series. And they carried themselves that way. Now, the Lakers, I don't know what happened to them the entire game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Um, I don't know where the ball movement, they had 15 assists. Uh, there was some, a stagnant offense and on defense. I just thought that looked slow. It'll be different in Tuesday, but I really liked what I saw from Minnesota. And that was the series that it didn't flip me because I had Lakers in seven, but it did make me go, fuck. I think I, I don't feel great about Lakers in seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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So what was your takeaway?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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You're like the new Diane Cannon. You're there every game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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21 for 42 from three. It's pretty hard not to win any playoff game when you go 21 for 42. I struggled with it because I thought Gobert offensively could be a problem for the Lakers heading into the series because of the lob stuff. Because they don't have rim protection and that's like the one that Gobert is good at. And I was trying to figure out how much Jackson... If they pass to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Right, but he's still around the rim with his arms up, and if you're not playing a center at some point. So Hayes was minus 11 in eight minutes. They couldn't keep him on the floor, right? So you have that. They haven't been playing him at all, by the way. This is pretty consistent. This is like, all right, we just had to find out. Minnesota did some interesting stuff with where they put Connelly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Were you following that? where they put him on Rui for a little bit so that he wouldn't be on Reeves. And then the Lakers kind of figured that out, and then they started moving around. The second half, he was on Reeves again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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And it seems like they were so aware that the Lakers were going to attack Connolly as a strategy that they just wanted to kind of move him around like a yo-yo, which I thought was smart. I don't really know what the move is for the Lakers, if that one lineup they have, which got killed last night with the Rui, LeBron, Luka, pick Reeves and pick a swing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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If that lineup's just going to get torched by Minnesota, I don't know what the next move is. Because the next move is basically playing LeBron at center and going super small with wings and shooting. And I just think Minnesota would be delighted if they did that. But the big takeaway for me last night is when McDaniels plays like that, Minnesota looks awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he's their wild... Every team has a wild card guy, right? When McDaniels is awesome... Minnesota looks like the scariest team in the West other than OKC. And he was awesome last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Which was the fear with this Luka-LeBron combo that it would just be open three frenzy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, so those eight games, Russillo, did any of them change what you thought specifically heading into a series? And we'll talk about Warriors-Rockets in a second. But out of those eight, did anything flip your opinion? Because I'm ready to overreact.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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So Nico still in this thing, you're saying.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. He definitely, there's one person in his life that he's still like, just hold on. I'm still not out of this. It's still going to happen. Can I read you the most critical thing I read about the Lakers last night? Please. Coach JJ Redick did a great job all season, but he didn't do a good job for game one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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The Lakers stood around on offense, played too much one-on-one basketball, and he didn't make any necessary adjustments. A tweet from Magic Johnson. That's when you know things are bad. That's as critical as I think he's ever been on Twitter. He was not happy. What did you see at the game? What was the vibe? Give us the... Give us the feel in the arena because they're all excited for this game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Game one, Luka playoffs, little kids wearing the Luka jerseys, and then the T-Wolves hit threes for an hour straight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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It does feel like it's month four of let's really give him a lot of latitude here, especially in the first quarter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like those Apple News stories you read where somebody won't leave somebody's cottage and they've been there two years?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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um yeah i i was i was wondering in the two days between games if we might get some sort of something from the lebron camp lebron really wants luca to get more involved there's some sort of something it's a lot of time here 72 hours so who knows i'm on pins and needles waiting to find out i will tell you just to add though if if you were a luca detractor

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It seems like you have one. What is it? I have a half one. I thought that Minnesota-Laker game... was a worst-case scenario for the Lakers in a lot of different ways, and I want to tackle it in a second. But that was the only one, because I thought Lakers in seven, I thought they'd have the history.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He has seven years of habits. He's like a child actor who just learned on the set how to behave. It is what it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When we talk about the wildcard guides, McDaniels from Minnesota, no question. And I guess Nas too, but Nas is pretty consistent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Did they win 70 games?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. They look just amazing. And Reeves is kind of the guy for LA in a lot of ways. Because when he's awesome, all of a sudden they seem... like impossible to stop.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But Minnesota, and this was, I had such a tough time with this series and finally ended up, I think I took Lakers in seven, but I really thought it was gonna be a seven game series where you have these two teams, the strengths and weaknesses are basically the same for the most part, except for the center spot. Like Minnesota's weak spot is point guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know how many minutes Conley can play, but Conley's the guy every team targets, and he's the guy who doesn't really matter for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But watching some of the matchups and some of the stuff Minnesota did and the fact that the Lakers didn't have a lot of options for a counter... It just kind of made me tilt my head a little bit. I still don't know what's going to happen. I'm really interested in game two, but we'll talk about that. Let's talk about Warriors Rockets. So we had an Warriors Rockets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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And then they can go bigger and really not have a point guard, but then you can pressure them. There's ways you can do it, and the Lakers are similar. And Rui is basically their Nas Reed, but Nas Reed's a better player. But they have this Gobert piece that the Lakers just don't have. They have this extra...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, first two days of the NBA playoffs are in the books. We have a lot of subplots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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From 2009 to 2013, LeBron was here and Carmelo was...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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He's certainly better too. They have a bunch of guys like that. They're not a rational confidence because it's kind of rational and confident, but they have Nas Reed. I think Dante's like that. Randall can have moments where he's like, if I could just get the ball more, I'd be a 35 point a game guy. And I don't think it's a team that really cares if they're on the road or not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Here's what's interesting. So in the Clippers series, the Clippers were minus 118 favorites on FanDuel when that series started. They lost game one and now they're plus 118. So it swung a little, but not that much. Minnesota was a pretty big underdog heading into the Lakers series. They were like, I think it was like plus 160, something like that. They're now minus 153 favorites off of one game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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That's one big. So I think there was some matchup stuff there that the Sharps probably looked at and said, this is going to be long haul. Now what they're forgetting is that literally everybody in Minnesota is going to foul out a game too. I'm just preparing America now. it could be a 60 foul game for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My fear for the Warriors was they got 75 points in that Memphis game from Curry and Butler. And if these games go into the 110 to 120 range, where are they getting all those points from, right? Then the Rockets fears are, well, what happens when we get to the playoffs and somebody turns defense up on them? How are they going to score?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Anyway, that's a, that's our segment on Lakers, Timberwolves, and you can learn more at workday.com. Well, the NFL playoffs are here. You knew this already. There's no better way to be in the action than with FanDuel, America's number one sports book. So many fun things to do. We got profit boosts, future bets. You can dive in, make your bet, activate your boost, go for even bigger winnings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Monday. We have Knicks, Pistons, and then we have Clippers, Nuggets, game two. I still like all the Clippers series bets, the future bets. I think they're plus 118 for the series. I like them to win outright in game two. So I would recommend that. But don't be a spectator this postseason. Head to Fandle.com slash BS to download America's number one sports book. and make every moment more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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You must be 21 plus and president of select states or 18 plus and president of DC. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-retrievable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fander.com. Gamble problem call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Spring is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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My favorite time of the year. That means the NBA playoffs. are here too. What am I the most excited about? I'm excited to see if the Celtics can defend their title. I'm excited to see if Steph Curry and Jokic can keep going and going and going round after round. I'm excited for the potential of an LA versus LA playoff series. It's never happened. Clippers, Lakers, never in my lifetime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Is OKC for real? Is Cleveland for real? Is SGA going to prove that he is the best scoring guard in the postseason? Basically, Since Michael Jordan? Since Kobe Bryant? Is he on that level? We're all going to find out. There's plenty to look forward to on and off the court. like Michelob Ultra Courtside. That's another thing. It's getting fans closer to the game with unique prizes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Plus, they're giving you a chance to win tickets to the NBA Finals. You heard me. The NBA Finals, which I hope are in Boston. Just head to MichelobUltra.com slash NBA Finals. Michelob Ultra Courtside, NBA Finals, sweepstakes, no purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up. Begins 9 a.m. ET on February 16th, 2025. Ends on May 5th, 2025.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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See official rules at makelobeultra.com slash rules for price and details, message and data rate may apply. Void. We're prohibited. Clippers Nuggets. Game of the weekend? Has to be, right? That was the best game we saw. It was an awesome, awesome game. The Clippers curse is undefeated. I'm happy to talk about that later when I do that now. Here's my first question for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you're a Denver fan, are you more or less scared after that game? Do you feel better or worse? You won the game. Do you feel better or worse?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, that fear won out over the other fear because the Rockets couldn't score. And it was a karaoke greatest hits of all the terrible fourth quarters we've watched from the Rockets all year. It was really, really bad. What are the fixes? What'd you see today?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, I was curious on your take. If I'm a Denver fan, I can't believe I won that game. And I'm already fucking nervous as hell for the series. And I think that's why the line didn't really budge because you had Porter who was a section eight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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who basically got benched for Russell Westbrook, who was a big piece in the coach-GM drama where both guys ended up getting fired, and who was just a complete rollercoaster ride, possession to possession, and was a better option than Michael Porter, who makes $40 million a year. He's out there. And then you have Murray, who was seven for 20, and it felt worse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I don't know what I'm getting out of Porter going forward. I don't know if I'm getting 50% shooting from Jamal Murray in any game with the way the Clippers are defending him. And I don't know if I'm ever getting a worse possession performance than the Clippers in big spots where they just... Look, it's going to sound like I'm making excuses because I picked them to win the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They just fucked the game up. That was a, we fucked the game up. You leave that game and you're like, I can't believe we lost that game. You're going through. There's 12 plays you're looking at. What are we doing here? We can't inbound the ball over here. We can't get a better shot here. We're sending Jokic a double team late here and leaving this guy 10 feet open. What are we doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I guarantee their coaches, and we both think they have one of the five best coaching staffs. I guarantee their coaches were fucking knocking tables over today going, what the fuck were we doing in this? So the question for me is,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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bad game or is this just like this is what this Clippers experience is going to be like between the fact that James Harden is involved you have guys like Chris Dunn wide open open for a reason as Jalen Rose would say and you also have Jokic who's the best player in the series but I still feel like the Clippers are going to win the series and I don't think it's crazy

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Hold that thought. Um, so Harden was 32, six and 11 and played 42 minutes. Kawhi played 41 minutes. At some point they were like, we got to get this game. We can take this the way Porter's playing. Well, yeah, but I mean, with the way Porter is playing, I think they were like, we can steal this. We can steal this. And it felt like they were going to win it. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Norm Powell, who I don't think has been the same guy since he came back from his injury, and I don't know if the stats completely back it up, but I think they do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But, I mean, he's playing less minutes, too. I looked up the five-man numbers for all the— I did it before the Golden State game, for just game one. And you can see that these lineups play like 10 minutes, 12 minutes, 11 minutes. The Clippers played that one lineup 26 minutes with Dunn. 26 of the 53. And they were like minus nine with that lineup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I wonder going forward, do we see a little less Dunn and a little more Derrick Jones or maybe a little more Batum? Do they go a little bit bigger, just play Harden as a point guard? I think my point is they have moves to make. Whereas Denver has no moves. If Porter's going to suck, then it's it. It's just Westbrook. Who else is playing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Nobody else in your roster who can play in crunch time of a playoff game. So they're going to be at the whim of this Russell Westbrook rollercoaster. So take the floor because I know you have a timeline you want to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I like when he gets a rebound and he takes off with the ball like it's going to be a fast break, Magic Johnson style. But then he sees the half-court logo and he's like, three, two, one. I have to get rid of this ball. I can't dribble with it 35 feet of the basket. I can't believe he's playing. The one thing I liked with him was I thought he was physical with Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I guess if he can at least do that, he's probably playable in this series. But offensively, he's a zero.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He would take those rebounds, and he honestly looked like left-handed magics, LeBron sometimes. He really did. I don't know what happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, it's a good one for Harden, too, because that floater he has, he just knows he's getting it against the Nuggets. Nobody's blocking it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I actually felt like that got swept under the rug as one of the worst in the game plays in the history of basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Just even leading up. I mean, he was put in a bad spot. There's three seconds left, but everything about it was a botch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Did you hear Bob Myers' reaction to that? The play settled. I think they ended up getting free throws out of it somehow. And Bob, there's like a pause and Bob Myers is like, Well, I'm not sure Westbrook should have taken the... He was just like, I'm really not sure that should have happened. You kind of have to pull up there and maybe not do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was a stretch to have him out there for 12 minutes. He was a stretch while you were out there. Anyway, go ahead.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You get four yards, three yards. Maybe they spot it. It's either second and seven or second and six, depending on how they spot it. I really want to talk about the Westbrook spacing because, first of all, this was another thing we didn't properly kill the Clippers on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Whatever the fuck these staggered double teams they were sending at Jokic, it just felt like over and over again it was the wrong timing of it. And he just had it figured out in the second half in OT. They're going to do this. I'm going to just hit this open guy. But that shot, Westbrook hit the three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think I've ever seen anyone left more open at any level of basketball in any game I've ever watched in my life, including like girls high school basketball in the eighth grade. He was open. Chris Dunn just... Jokic got the ball, and Chris Dunn was closest to Westbrook, but he was probably six feet away. And he just said, fuck it. And he went to the top of the key to double Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like he had time to line up. So then he made it and he's like, that's what I do. That's what I do. He's doing that whole thing. It's like, dude, nobody's ever been left more open than you just were ever in a playoff game ever. It was amazing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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By the way, for the whole Nuggets team, because if you look at their three-point shooting, it's kind of better than you think it would be, but the reason it's better than you think it would be is because a lot of these threes are just wide open because of all the shots Jokic creates for everybody. So you're shooting 39%, but most of those shots are wide-open shots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think he is just conditioned to do, he's the Terminator walking into the bar, making the calculations with all the math and just makes the decision. I think every decision is just whatever the best basketball play is, that's what he does. So even if it's Russell Westbrook alone by 12 feet in the corner down to the biggest play of the game, I just think he's throwing it to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's like, that's a wide open guy. I am conditioned to throw it to that guy. And that's it. I think it could have been Saruti in the corner. He doesn't care. That guy has a jersey on. I'm wearing the same jersey. He's open. I throw him the ball. That's what I do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Sure. It's a great time. It's been a lot of Jokic's love lately, especially on this podcast. Go ahead.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know who used to do it once upon a time? Cedric Maxwell. 50 minutes. Larry Joe Byrd. He would get furious at the ref if they didn't throw him the ball in time. I think he saw it the same way as Jokic. It's almost like soccer where the guy puts the free kick down really fast to try to get the advantage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was going to do this later, but let's do it now. Uh, look, we both like Stephen a, I'm so tired of the historical hyperbole. There's been so many worst owners ever. over the course of 80 years than Matt Ishbia just trading a couple too many things for Kevin Durant and throwing some swaps at a Bradley Beal trade. Sarver used to just sell picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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George Shin, they had to move the team to get him out of town because the town revolted against him owning a basketball team. Ted Stipean, they had to create a rule that So that you couldn't trade draft picks and consider it because he demolished the Cavaliers for the entire 1980s and basically helped the Magic Johnson 1980s Lakers dynasty with stupid trades.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like I could go through a million of these. He's not in the top 20 yet. Was Dan Snyder that long ago? Well, he was saying NBA, right? Oh, was it just NBA? But even if it's NBA, I can come up with 20. We haven't even mentioned Donald Stroud yet. Yeah, but we've had a million of these. FYI, James Dolan wasn't exactly crushing it for 20 years there for the Knicks, right? It should be his...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know. Not to defend him, but Jesus. That's not defending him. It's ridiculous. This whole thing where everything has to be the greatest, the best.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Did that game make you feel better about voting for Jokic for MVP? Because it did for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Don't 100% retract it because that game was a fucking two-hour display of how awesome OKC is. That team's awesome. That was part of the case if you were kind of nudging a little toward Jokic and a little away from SJ. It's like, OKC's awesome. And OKC was, I mean, they beat Memphis to the point that I almost wonder, like, if you win game one by 60 points, should the series just end?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, what would be the right number where it's like, look, if you lose by 60, we're not playing the other games. It's done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But what would be a number that would be like, if you can't stay within 60 points of somebody in a game one, you can't play the rest of the games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I have a Clippers thing. I don't want to leave Clippers nuggets yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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He had an incredible candidacy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I did. I did. You could tell it was coming like two, three weeks ago. The 60-10-10 game was...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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probably the final thing for me but I just you know I talked about it on my Thursday pod at some point if somebody's having the best offensive season you've seen since Michael Jordan you gotta have to reconsider some of the some of the standards you have for the award I have but I think my point my point about you asking but I wasn't on the fence and then like the third quarter I went okay I got it I got it right thank God Clippers

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I have some Clipper fans in my life. It's an underrated, oh my God, it's happening to us again team. Because we always think of the typical, the big teams, like the Buffalo Bills, like these teams in the playoffs where if something goes wrong, you start thinking about the history. And the Clippers are such sad sacks, you kind of forget how bad the history is. And that loss was a bad loss.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. It was 66-47, five minutes left in the third. And Shingun made that just ridiculous shot clock beating three in the buzzer that never should have gone in, right? It's like, all right, mark that one down. And then Adams kind of took over the game the rest of the third quarter. And then into the fourth, he was getting those offensive rebounds. Easton had a couple of big defensive plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And yet, I still think the Clipper fans just feel like we can beat this team. We have a really good team. Kawhi being healthy and playing that many minutes and playing that many minutes, just in general, it's one of those things you don't want to talk to her in a no hitter, but he looks really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like for whatever we thought he was going to be at this stage of his career at age 33, after all the time he's kind of missed and come and gone. Like this is think like that. I think Harden, I think his legs look really good for an older team. They look pretty good. I still think they're the second best team in the West.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Maybe Minnesota can steal that ceiling title for them, but I still think they're going to win the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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They're going to put pick it in that game, which is becoming a must-win game like that. It would have been insane, but that, that was an actual option.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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And it just felt like there was some sort of combination of guys that would be the right combination. It was like watching somebody work up safe in a bank ice move. It's like, how did he get it? And he just kind of never unlocked it. And I think If I'm leaving that game and I'm watching the tape, I'm really interested in the double bigs. I'm really interested in the double bigs with Jabari.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I just got this job two weeks ago. I'm a temp. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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In 23, when they won the title, he played 20 playoff games, 32.7 minutes a game. 8.1 rebounds a game during that playoff stretch. And I thought he was good during that run, and we kind of hit Whatever you had in your head of where his career was going to go, it was like, you know, it'd be cool if he had 40% of his threes and he tried on defense and he rebounded.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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We're going to talk about all of them with Ryan Rosillo next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new Rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did Minority Report. It is our 17th Tom Cruise movie, and I think it's our eighth Steven Spielberg movie. So Cruise is number one by four movies, and Spielberg is in second place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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If you just get those three things, we're good. And now he doesn't rebound. And the effort is in there in the same way. And I said, Zach and I, I was on Zach's pod last week. We were talking about OKC. And I asked how many guys on Denver would play for OKC. And we went and he's like, no, there'd be more. And I said, well, I don't think Porter would play for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think he'd play over Wiggins. And Zach said he'd play over Wiggins. And I don't know whether that's right or wrong. I genuinely don't think he would play over Wiggins. I think Wiggins really gives a shit, plays defense, hits threes. He's athletic. He gives a shit. I said that twice. I don't think Porter would get on the floor for them because he doesn't play hard enough. He wouldn't play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He wouldn't play over Hart.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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It's basically the Wiggins spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. I'm playing both of those guys over Porter, this version of Porter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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So here's the thing. This might've worked out for Denver where Porter has some sort of come to Jesus moment, but he's also had a really, I think, difficult year. And maybe that's affected the off the court stuff with his brother, which was pretty horrible. He's already won a title. So when you win a title, it's like, I don't have to sacrifice in the same way I'm already a champion.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And maybe you're in that mode of like, I'm tired of hearing about how great Jokic is. I'm good too. Nobody will ever appreciate me on this. Who knows what's in his head, but whatever he did in game one was disgusting. It sucked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think I'd want to see Eason more because I just thought he was just a major issue the whole time. Thompson is the one. Thompson just looked like a guy who had smoke up, blown up his ass all week that he should have been defensive player of the year. And all of a sudden, he's in a playoff game guarding Steph Curry and Butler, and he just wasn't good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm looking at our YouTube chat to see if anybody has Michael Porter Jr., Yeah, doesn't seem like he's very popular in the chat. But the thing is, they don't just need him. They actually need him to play like 32 to 35 minutes a game. It's not just like, oh, it'd be nice if he helped us out. They actually need real minutes from him because the more minutes he plays...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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you know, the less other people play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I think I've been to the Atlanta airport like 30 times and I've been to Atlanta twice. That'd be an interesting one. Most airports you've been in versus times you've actually been in the city.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Hartford, Detroit to somewhere else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I skipped that one. Can we do OKC Grizz really quick? I think Memphis is not a good basketball team, and it made me mad that Dallas couldn't beat them. And I bet the sweep immediately, like immediately for this series. Maybe I'll be wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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What would they be? The odds were... I have that here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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That was as big of a first half ass kicking as I can probably ever remember watching in a playoff game. And I know there were games where there were bigger blowouts, but it wasn't just that they were killing them. It was like they were just rebounding and getting three on ones. And I thought Memphis gave up. It was a Jaron Jackson trademark, your trademark.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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an all-time Hall of Fame Tobias Harris game. I didn't realize he was out there for a half hour at one point. I thought he maybe left and was playing video games in the locker room, but it turned out he was still out there. It's just grim, and I don't see any chance. This is a team that is really built to defend Jaa

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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With as many options as you could possibly come up with, plus rim protection, and there's, you know, unless Desmond Baines just can hit 12 threes in a game, I don't see a case. But I think Memphis, can we officially make them a team to watch this summer? Because I don't feel like this will be the same nucleus in a couple months.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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The Van Vliet thing, we've seen a bunch of times, though. We've seen him have those games. And over and over again, it seems like when everything stalls... It's just him jacking up 24, 25 footers. And I don't know how he fixed that because that was the worst of Jalen Green today. When he's just going to the basket, he has no gears. He's either fifth gear or first gear.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Hartenstein was I thought incredible today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I watched the entire game. My mom was over for Easter and I was like, hold on. Like I, I was really, I liked the double.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I had it on. I was, it was on the kitchen. I was focused on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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And it just, what was that? Indy Colts banner? Yeah. What was it, the AFC South Champs or whatever? Is that what it was? I don't know. They had a bad banner. That would be a good website, Worst Banners.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm going to work on that after the pod.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Oh, that was what Saruta said. 2014 AFC finalists was the Colts banner. AFC championship finalists. It's pretty bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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And he's just going to the basket, flying in, either trying to get fouled or whipping off the backboard. They don't have that one settler. And that's why it was so interesting to talk about them in February. I felt they were a year away. So did you. But it's like, man, if they could just get one guy who could I got you guys. Let me get a couple of baskets here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You could talk yourself into, well, the coach thing was weird. We don't have Brandon Clark. Jalen Wells got hurt. Let's take a look at this in the offseason. Edie turned out to be a great pick. Feeling good there. Great pick? I think he's serviceable. Well, for number nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but... I'm just trying to do the glass half full Grizzlies case. The question for me is if you're sitting in whatever office talking about let's make a big move, who's out there? whether Memphis would admit it or not, they're not hanging up if you're like, I have this really good offer for John Moran. Can we talk about it? They're not going to be like, nope.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right. Well, they have their three guys. and they feel a million miles away from OKC, and OKC is still stacking up, and they have three draft picks in this draft. I mean, you're so far away. I don't know. It'd be a tough exit interview for the group, and we don't know if that coach is coming. I'd heard that the maybe they did that Jenkins move because they wanted to lock down that coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cause they're afraid they're going to lose them. Um, so maybe he's the coach going forward. I don't know. But anyway, I'm going to, uh, probably not watch a lot of that series going forward unless the score is like 150 and I can get excited that they might double a score.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Probably that series. Probably round two if they're just walloping whoever comes out of that Clippers-Denver thing. That's when I think people will be like, holy shit. But yeah, I just think people aren't going to believe it until they see it against real teams in the playoffs. Knicks-Pistons. What is your opinion for why Cade was so bad in that game? I have an opinion, but I'm interested in yours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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With much the way Butler was doing it for the Warriors down the stretch and tonight, and they're missing it. And yet I don't think they're out of this series. This is not like an overreaction. Uh-oh, the Warriors have control because they only scored, you know, they scored less than 100 points too. I just think this is going to be a rock fight series and Houston has a lot of wildcard guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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No, you said the number one thing I would have said is, first of all, OG's been awesome for two months here, and I thought he was really good yesterday. No, I had a big picture point. I don't think home court matters anymore, really, that much, as we saw with how good the Celtics are. on the road and at home they would just blow these games left and right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we've seen teams lose game sevens at home over and over again every playoffs. And in general, I just don't think it's not like it was in the 80s. And even if you're watching Celtic City, like some of those games that even I was lucky enough to be at, the crowds were different. The crowds were on top of you. You had the people on the bench.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They had people sitting in the rows behind them just screaming at them the whole game. There was like an intimidation factor that I think is just not there anymore. I think it's just more benevolent to be on the road just in general. Um, it's easier to fly to a game, your private jets, your standard nice hotels. There's just things that are more in your favor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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If you're the road team, I think the Knicks still have a home court advantage. I thought the Pistons got rattled when that 21 to nothing, as that was happening, it was a thing that you don't really see that often anymore. Um, a younger team getting affected by the momentum of a game and how much the crowd was into it. Because I thought the crowd was great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I knew a bunch of people that were there who said the same thing. But I thought the crowd and the energy of what they had and what some of the players had and Towns which that was about as much fun as I've had watching Towns as a two-way guy probably ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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OG, Brunson was, you know, Brunson, it seems like he's hurt, then he's not hurt, then he seems hurt again, then he's fine, but Brunson was gutting it out. And everybody won from that game except for Bridges because Bridges was bad and he was on the bench basically the entire time they brought it back. But if you're Detroit, you're like, fuck, we got this incredible Harris game. Right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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At 22, what, at halftime? Yeah. We were able to match their energy. Stewart gets hurt at the beginning of the fourth quarter. And they get nothing from Cade, but they still hung around, hung around, hung around. And then the Knicks just made them look like the young team that wasn't ready to be in an atmosphere like that. That was my takeaway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So great win. I think I still feel like this is going to be a long series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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The third quarter of the fourth quarter was hilarious from a tech standpoint because I think at this point I was either at WrestleMania or we were going there and I just decided it's too hard for me to watch this Knicks game. I'm going to just, I'll bang it out when I get home. I'll bang out like the second half. And I had these texts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I won't say who sent them, but one of them was, this is very disturbing to say the least. No ball movement. Brunson dribbling away. They're a better team with Robinson. And then 10 minutes later, I take it all back. That was one. Um, there was, uh, another one, uh, um, The Dante Julius trade is such a disaster. Motherfuck. And then right after. Timestamp above is when we tied game, by the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It doesn't matter. And then I was like, ha ha, you guys came back. It was a lot of those. The Knicks fans were freaking out in the third quarter. And that was what was so funny when the energy shifted, watching it on TV, knowing what had already happened. Look, it's a really good team. I don't think they're in the class of Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like to me, they remind me of, oh man, this is going to get clipped and probably come back to haunt me. They remind me of one of those NFL teams, like a Houston Texans season where they win the wildcard game. And it's like, do you think they can win three more? And it's like, not really. I just think they're going to beat the teams that they're better than.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And when they get to that next class, that higher class, I don't think they have enough. Even the campaign thing, that's ridiculous. He's going to do that once every three weeks, right? That's not going to be a recurring thing with campaign. If he does that again, it'll be a miracle. It's campaign.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That third quarter, I was like, what's going on here? There's one thing with Detroit that I'm going to be really interested to see if they do it a little more. I thought Schroeder had a really interesting second half. And I've always liked Schroeder, as you know. I probably like him more than most, but I think he's a pest. I always felt like he was the best guy in the league defending Steph.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Out of anybody in the league, he would have been the number one guy I picked to just bug Steph. And I feel like he can bug Brunson. And I do think there's some sort of lineup with two smaller guards... with Beasley, with the center, and then with the shooter that they might be able to at least hang around in these games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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If I'm the Pistons, I thought this was one of my favorite bets that the series would not go six games. I still don't think it's going to go six games. But if I'm the Pistons, you're at least talking yourself into, look, Cade's not going to be that bad again. He was really good all year. He has another. This will be a good motivating for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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It should be like a cornerback coming in to just defend a specific receiver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I thought it would happen during that 21-0 run. I was waiting for the clothesline or something like that. And by the way, that also should have been Memphis today. How many baskets can OKC before you just have to at least contest a layup, for God's sakes? It was pretty brutal. I'm not doing the old guy. Back in my day, we were the clothesline, blah, blah, blah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I think you're right about game two. They're going to definitely muck it up. That would be my Detroit. That would be my guess. We are going to get a way more physical game. And we'll see. The Bridges piece of it, which has been up and down all year, and we've talked about it a bunch of times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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But it was a storyline, is my point. It was discussed on and off during the season. I just want to shout out one thing that Thompson does. I think he's the number one guy if I'm inbounding the ball and I'm a point guard, I just have to dribble 50 feet to set up my offense. I think he's the number one guy I wouldn't want to see in front of me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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There's something about what he does with cutting the angles off to the guy, like pushing them toward the sidelines, but being able to move his feet with his hands up. I've never seen anybody. I can't think of anybody who's been better. Maybe like, I don't remember that one. You even go way back for me. Pippen used to do that. Remember when Pippen and Jordan would do this sometimes?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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So they'd be like, hey, let's just go get the ball. And they would just defend 94 feet, and people literally couldn't dribble the ball up to midcourt. He is so terrifying. But I think for the Pistons, putting those miles on Brunson, where he's just actually working just to get the ball 60 feet, it's a real thing. So I bet they do that more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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We're getting old. Cavs heat. Is there anything you need to see from Cleveland this series?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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He, he, how many games has he done this? Like 20 where he just completely takes over a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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You think it's where he just takes over like a four minute stretch of a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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And making like a 30-footer. Right. You left out with your Miami options. You left out the high screen with our guy Davion.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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He's definitely a rotation guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I think next year he's 100% could be on a good team playing 15 to 20 minutes a game. But the thing, I texted this to you. I still don't understand why they punted on Schroeder and what the thinking was with that. I'm sure there was tax apron stuff, but I don't understand how the team we're watching in this game today didn't need Schroeder for 20 minutes, 25 minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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They basically nudged him away, and I know there were some financial implications to it, but it's a weird one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Just on my own or floater things he's doing is yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Miami shouldn't be a playoff team. And honestly, neither should Memphis. There's 13 teams. There's Memphis and Miami. There's... I think Orlando at least can throw some punches and has two good scores. They feel playoff team-y to me. I'm okay with them in the playoffs. They're obviously a guy short.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Same for post. Don't forget to throw in post in this conversation. I think they're good with all wide open threes from him until he makes one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I think the Kyrie thing was the biggest one of all of them. I think if Kyrie had never gotten hurt, I think Dallas would have been a really good eight seed. They would have lost, but at least they would have had defense and a score, and they would have been something of a team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Don't tell Amazon because I think this is part of their package. Amazon was excited for the play-in, but how many good playing games were there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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We went two for six in the play-in this year. I'd love to know the batting average for the four years, but it's got to be about 30%.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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I enjoyed it as well. It was a fun one. I wonder if it should just be 8-9, winner of 8-9 plays the 7 for the 7-8 seeding or something like that, and we just get rid of the 10 seed. I think it's going to be hard to find a 10 seed that kind of deserves to get any sort of stage. You're going to end up in that weird Sacramento thing. I mean, we didn't even talk about the Sacramento. This is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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this is now a top three. What the hell is this organization going to do? Organization. That's a bonus piece of it. Um, you know, and my, I don't know where that goes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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Celtics, Orlando, anything before we go to Pacers bucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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The Celtics are really good. Orlando doesn't have enough good players. And Orlando needs some sort of guard who can create stuff for them because what they have is not enough. That's my analysis. The disparity between the two teams was significant. I never for a split second thought the Celtics were in danger of losing the game. And Tatum didn't even play well offensively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's had a good rebounding game. I liked how hard he played. I thought he was good defensively. I thought he attacked the rim. But the guards won the game. And Drew clearly has multiple gears. Like the Drew that was in the game today. Drew, he's doing that. Chad Finn called it the Dennis Johnson. Like, I'll turn it on when the games start mattering. He just looked great. Porzingis looks good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So that is coming Monday, and you can watch it on Ringer Movies as well. I talked about Sinners a little bit with Van Lathan. That's a special video on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, so you can Check that out as well. Don't forget episode eight of Celtic City. So we got two basketball games tomorrow night. Finish the second one, then plow right into Celtic City because it's a really good one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Team looks good. Feeling good. Jalen's knee looked okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

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didn't see any red flags anywhere Tatum wrist x-rays all good yeah oh yeah I had a couple Celtic fans in my life who were mad about that foul I thought it was I thought it was a good play I thought they were trying to stop a dunk like it's fucking playoff basketball your job is to try to stop somebody from dunking in traffic you know and they called a flag or one on it I could have gone either way on it but I didn't have a problem with that I didn't think it was cheap did you

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5804.406

Yeah, when the guards play like that, they're... Yeah, it's very hard for them to lose.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5863.948

I was trying to think of a scenario where Orlando could win a game because I still feel like Boston's not going to sweep. I think Boston will have a weird game where they just don't make threes. But I also think if they play defense, it would be impossible for Orlando to get to like 98 points. So it would have to be the combination of not making threes, not playing defense for like an hour.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5883.021

and get Orlando up. But I, it, Boston plays defense. I just don't see how Orlando is going to score. Even in the game today, they had 18 points in the first quarter, 18 in the third, 19 in the fourth. Like it's just, it's going to be really hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5918.049

I thought the single best bet on FanDuel heading into the playoffs was Pacers win game one, Pacers win the series was, I think, plus 138, something like that. Look at you. The Bucs looked horrible. Dame didn't play. There was this weird... Dame's back. I think people thought he was going to be back for game one just because of the way the announcement came out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5942.549

But even if he comes back, he's not going to be in game shape. The Pacers love to pressure the ball full court. I just think there's so many things wrong. And then you move into, well, what has to happen for the Bucs to win the series? Well, Kevin Porter needs to really come through. It's like, well, he wasn't on the team two months ago. So if it's okay, I'm not going to count on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5960.457

And just like penciling Giannis for 38 and 20 every game, I still don't think they're winning the series. And I also think the Pacers are good. I think Pacers Cleveland is going to be a really, really good series. But the big question is, you know, is the clock going to start on Giannis? That's going to be the ESPN topic tomorrow, especially if they fall down to nothing. What happens to Giannis?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5982.165

Where is he going to go? And we said all this before the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

5993.061

It was starting on Saturday after that game. It was bad. It was a bad loss, and you start going, okay, this kind of sucks if you're Giannis. He's been 30, 12, and 6 for seven straight years, and he's never been in a weaker situation with his roster. It is what it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6049.482

He did an even that team for the team that won the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6074.014

I never liked the Kuzma trade at any point of 2025.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6081.138

You think Snell is replaced by Kuzma?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6106.647

That Clippers-Denver, that was a really hard game. Of all the games I would have said, it would be nice if those guys had one more day off. I probably would have picked that series, but somehow they're playing again. So we'll see with that. But those are two really good games tomorrow. I went from thinking Indiana would win in less than six to now wondering if this could potentially get ugly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6142.361

And that just seems like I'm keeping my fingers crossed on both of those at that point. I continue to think Indiana's really good. I put some of my favorite playoff bets on Friday, and I thought the Indiana was 28-1 to win the East. I don't think they're going to win the East, but I thought those odds were pretty good because...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

615.022

Yeah, it was like the scrappy, like the football team of like scrappy, smaller guys battling some massive offensive line. They were able to get away with some stuff tonight that I don't know if it's going to work in later rounds for the record. Like Butler played 42 minutes tonight, right? Curry played 39. Once you start going every other day, the way they were leaning those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6163.854

You'd have to take out Cleveland, and they know they can play with Boston. And just 28-1, those are crazy, crazy odds. It's at least if you're going to take a crazy flyer on someone, not a bad one. I think Indiana's a good team. And sometimes they're their own worst enemies, but they are definitely better than Milwaukee, and I don't think it's going to matter what Giannis does.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6184.308

So we try not to overreact to game one, but that game confirmed everything I thought heading into the series, that Indiana just has a better basketball team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6199.686

Kuzma versus Porter, who had a worse weekend?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6238.993

He's had a good run. It's tough when a basketball player hits the point where you can give them the best possible stat line for the game and also say their team's still going to lose. Yeah, like no chance. Like game two, Giannis, 42-27 assist. Do they win? And I'd be like, eh, probably not. That's where it gets tough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6293.354

I heard from a Laker fan today who mailed me his box or like, yo, your boy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

636.21

Curry also was really quiet and then all of a sudden got hot, which is usually a danger for the other team if he's slow first quarter. And it reminded me of that. What was the best game he ever played? What was that, 2019? When he was quiet in the first half and then just completely annihilated Houston in the second half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6369.353

Kyle Kuzma does the 0-0-0 across the board. Um, so I went to WrestleMania in and out yesterday. How'd that go? Do you drive car service? No, I was, I was able to, uh, somebody I knew was going in and out same day. Uh, yeah. Um, nice. And at one point was sitting with, um, Dana White was like four seats down with his right hand guy. Very nice guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6400.475

and my son, big UFC fan, and his buddy, kind of, my son has a way of doing this. All of a sudden, he's in a conversation with the right-hand guy and got some info on International Fight Week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6414.962

And there's a fight coming in that week that my son, he'll make this face three times a year that we always make fun of where he's been making it since he was a little kid where he's overwhelmed by something and he's kind of just deer, like legitimate deer in the headlights. And he found out one of the fights and made the deer in the headlights face.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6433.112

But I'm not going to say it because I don't want to betray the confidence. But let's just say my son is now demanding we go to International Fight Week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6451.786

He's got a good handshake, eye contact, kind of knows when to move in and out of the combo. Not annoying. No, not annoying. Low usage rate. He'll space the floor. If it's somebody he wants to engage with, he'll do it. If it's something like there's a common interest thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6474.3

Yeah, or he'll move back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6480.578

It seems like we were there for the better WrestleMania day because I think today was a little bit worse, although John Cena, I know you were focused on that. Another Massachusetts title. Cena won the title again. Bad guy. Turn heel. But he won. Won the title with some help from your guy, Travis Scott. Came in and helped him out. That's cool. He's your guy. But he came in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6506.529

My highlight, though, is behind in the back room underneath, Stephen Bell was there who starred in Heels, which is a show that I really like that was on Starz. And this guy, Chris Bauer, was also on Heels. He played the bad guy. But he's been in a bunch of movies. He was Sabaka in The Wire.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6526.895

And he's been in a bunch of movies, but he was Machine in 8 Millimeter, a movie that I love and Van Lathan loves and my friend Jeff Gow loves and I'm not sure anyone else loves, Nick Cage. So I was really excited to meet him. And I opened with, I'm a huge fan of 8 Millimeter. I love Machine. I don't think he gets it much. Seems genuinely surprised by it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

654.843

Yeah, it is. You're number one. Listen. If Golden State can play those five guys together and get away with it, I think they're delighted. If they can play Moody and Podzemski with the three, and they can rebound just enough, and they can defend just enough, but then get what they want offensively, and Moody can step up like he did with that three. That's where they want to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6551.651

Oh, yeah. Frank Sabatka.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6560.994

People got to give season two another chance. Plus, Pablo's in it. Like, there's great actors in that season. Pablo Schreiber, Den of Thieves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6575.359

He probably gets Sabatka the most... I would guess from the interactions. I don't know if he got a lot of Machine. Machine was the killer in 8mm. He was the killer in the stuff film. And he wore like a gimp leather mask. And there's a big fight scene at the end with him and Nick Cage. So yeah, good one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6603.171

You know, I think Charlotte Flair is really great. I think she's the best woman's wrestler I've ever seen in person. Since China? No, just best in general. I don't think China... China's not a lot of conversations. I think China's a little more like... I don't know. She had a brief apex. Who's the Irish one? Becky Lynch. She married Seth Rollins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6628.74

She was the biggest star in the company for about a year. And then she married Seth Rollins. They had a kid. So she kind of phased back a little bit. I found her SportsCenter ad annoying. So did you notice in the Masters they were rerunning some of the old SportsCenter ads? I forgot how great those were. Like they were rerunning the Tiger Woods ad, a couple of them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6655.713

It's kind of nostalgic for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6675.724

Isn't it Wyatt and Kennedy? Yeah. That's a denim, right? They're in Portland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6701.428

I was going to say, the funniest thing about SportsCenter was the fucking jockeying to be in the SportsCenter commercial. There were so many stories about that. People being mad that this person got in and they weren't. This person's been in three. I haven't been in one yet. He's been in four. I've only been in one. It was fantastic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6729.024

Yeah, I liked him. And I saw Sinners on Friday, too, and I thought it was spectacular.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

679.092

I don't know if that's going to work for four rounds. And I'm going to say it again, and this is the most polarizing Warriors topic. I just find it hard to believe Kaminga can't play 12 minutes a game for this team. I find it hard to believe. And it seems like they're completely out. I just find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been better than those 12 Quentin Post minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6820.103

it's so original. I went into it knowing nothing. I intentionally read nothing. I didn't want to know anything. I just knew vampires are involved. The Michael B. Jordan was that I knew nothing else. And, uh, it's just so original and so cool. Um, and it shifts a couple of times and it has a couple of surprises in there. I thought it was the best Jordan performance ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6841.853

Um, he's playing, I don't want to say, I don't want to spoil it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6852.809

I was just blown away. I thought it was great. I'm going to see it again. It's a very short list.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6860.311

I'm going to go again. Yeah. It's very short list of movies I've seen twice in like two weeks in the theater. Cause I think it's a theater movie. You'll have still have fun watching it in, you know, in your house or your apartment, wherever you are out there. But yeah, Um, I think it's a crucial theater movie. And, uh, I just thought it was really cool. And I'm still glad I felt the same way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6880.04

I remember walking out once upon a time in Hollywood, same way. You're just like, man, that was just so original and so cool and so well casted. And there was, everybody was so good. And I just had a great time. Um, so anyway, I loved it. And it seems like it's doing well, which is nice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

6923.97

I like your Friends and Neighbors too. I've enjoyed that. I really enjoyed 1923. I thought it was another strong season. I really liked the Sheridan universe. I have not watched Mobland yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7029.826

Coming out in the fall. Where does it take place? Accountant 2, Affleck and Bernthal. A lot of good stuff coming out. Alright, so we're going to wrap up. You have two more podcasts this week. Tuesday, Thursday. What's the number one thing you're most excited about for the playoffs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7055.893

Me too. You know what's sad?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

706.06

I get it. That's why I tiptoe into it. I'm just hesitant. But I'm just like, man. Because at least with Kaminga, he's unafraid, he's athletic, and he's going to fight. And there's just, I don't know. There was that one Santos play when he just lost the ball. They just have dudes that are out there where you're like, man. What's this going to look like if you're playing OKC in a series?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7061.117

That happens sometimes. You know what's sad, though? The Magic weren't quite good enough today to pull Cerruti for like four minutes. That was like the bar. It's like, can the Magic be good enough that it's like, hey, there's something to pull Cerruti, and it just wasn't there. And I think deep down, he knows it too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7099.591

Paolo, Franz, Suggs, some cap space potentially, some... I don't know, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7118.544

Before the oblique virus caught him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7125.745

We got to wrap up. We got to wrap up. The shot hitch is terrifying, he said.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7137.614

How fired up are you for the draft on a scale of 1 in 10?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7151.789

I'm an eight. In fact, I'm not going to Clippers game three. Gave away my ticket already. I would rather watch Denver Clippers than watch, like with the draft. The Pats have the fourth pick. I'm not, I just not, I can't juggle it. Plus they might trade back up into the, I'm not missing it. It's too important.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7184.372

I'm kind of shocked how embedded I've been in the mock draft stuff. I even cold called McShay on Friday. We finally crossed that line. I just called him on a Friday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7194.68

Just called him. I wanted to talk about the Giants at three. I just was like, fuck it, I'm calling McShay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7215.144

Simmons can just call me on a Friday night out of nowhere. Yeah, I just had some thoughts. He has good intel. Fun person to talk to. I'm glad you brought him into my life. He's here in LA this week. We're going to be doing stuff for them here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7243.536

I think he's been, I know I'm biased, but I think he's been absolutely lights out with the draft this year. I've loved the newsletter. I love the podcast. The intel's good. I trust his mock draft stuff. I like our ringer draft guys too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7257.808

I just feel like, as you know, I don't watch a ton of college football and I'm diving into this and trying to grab all these opinions and get a feel for the tiers of the draft, all that stuff. But it's a pretty interesting draft. This Gentee, could go to the right team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7274.09

And it sounds like he could just be incredible right away, or he could be trapped behind some shit offensive line, but it really does. It is fun when these running backs can come in right away and be like one of the four or five best guys in the league coming out of the gate out of nowhere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7288.719

There's, you know, my thing with the Pats, and I'll probably say this five more times in the pod this week, but like, if you have the fourth pick, I feel like you have to get a blue chipper. You just have to, it's too high of a pick. You can't be like, we like this left tackle. He has a chance to be the 17th best left tackle of the week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7305.57

Like I need to get somebody who's like an impact fucking dude. And we'll see what happens. Need the Giants to make a mistake, basically. Anyway, you'll be covering this on Tuesday, on Thursday as well. I'm sure I will be talking about it as well, at least on Tuesday. Rosillo, great to see you on this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

731.235

You have these guys out there against that OKC team we saw today? So I think they can patch it together.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7324.582

Okay. Good to see you on this YouTube Live. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal as well. Thanks to everybody who watched and threw some stuff in the chat. I kept going in there to try to grab some stuff, but it was like scrolling fast. It was hard to follow. But... We will see you in a couple days. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Chris Sutton. Thanks to Gahal. Thanks to Saruti.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7346.76

And don't forget to rewatch what's coming on. Monday night, we did Minority Report. Don't forget Zach Lowe's first playoff podcast. He's going to be taping on Monday morning with Howard Beck. So it'll be a nice little bookend to this one. And we also have the group chat guys on Ringer NBA. They're going on Sunday morning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7365.15

So we try to stagger this so we'll have something going every little bit so pods aren't overlapping. And then we have Ringer NBA show. We have Logan and Raja. We have that going as well. We have the mismatch with Jacoby and Verno. We have Ringer gambling show. We have Stuff covered all different ways. JJ on New York, New York. Brian Barrett on Off the Pike. So we're here. NBA playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7388.87

Favorite time of the year. NFL draft coming as well. McShay show. Ring NFL draft show. McShay is in LA. Bunch of great stuff. So great week for us. Hope you enjoy all the content. I will see you in this podcast on Tuesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

741.76

And they were bad shots. There was like shot clock violation. It was like bad, bad stuff. So look, they have to go 12-9 to make the finals. Now they have to go 11-9. Could it happen? Sure. But they still feel like they're a guy short to me, Russillo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7420.53

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-health.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

7441.781

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

79.368

It's basically about the KG era in the 2000s and the 2008 title. And all those guys are interviewed and all their interviews are really, really good. And I think it's a really, really, really entertaining watch. Celtic City, HBO, 9 p.m. And then it is on Max as well. So there you go. Coming up, Brazil and I are going to rip through all of the NBA playoffs subplots from two wild days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

821.384

I like the bracket they're in more, right? They play the winner of Lakers, Minnesota. And from what we saw last night in that game, You know, two flawed teams. Minnesota looked great last night. The Lakers looked terrible. Both have some pluses and minuses, but I think they're in the right side of the bracket. And then you think, OK, see, maybe it doesn't matter the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

843.937

OK, see, it's just completely terrifying. I was thinking that Butler graphic you mentioned. Maybe they maybe just they feel like the casual ESPN fans can't understand how Jimmy Butler ended up on the Warriors. It just doesn't make sense when you're watching one of these games. You're like, how did they get that? Would they give up? Wiggins, what? Wiggins, Schroeder, Kyle Anderson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

866.012

Was there more in there? No, there wasn't. Houston going forward because we have three days between games, which means we have a Monday and Tuesday of what's Houston going to do if they can't get this going? And there'll be a trade machine team, I think. They're young. The biggest question they had. It took us 12 minutes to get to Houston. The big question is this Van Vliet player option thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

889.84

If you're talking trade machine stuff, but I, and I don't know if I'm just, it's because what we do for a living, but when I watch them, I'm constantly thinking of what player I would add to make them a championship contender, because it's clearly not the team they have now, which I still think is a very good team, but there's, there's something that they need.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

909.344

And so when I watch it, I'm like, hmm, I wonder with Booker, would you just like pay 200 cents on the dollar for Booker and just give Vishby the ultimate life raft or what would you do? But anyway, that stuff's going to go the next two days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

929.851

Do you think Houston's we look great when we're up 12 team? You know, we have those teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

NBA Playoff Reactions and Overreactions With Ryen Russillo

943.67

The Celtics, it's always the most dangerous when they're up 22. It's like, I don't know. Call timeout.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1009.106

Their last Superbowl win was deer antler Ray Lewis season. Right. So that was, uh, nine years ago, 11 years ago, 10 years ago, the blackout. Yeah. 14, 15 where I was at Grantland you and you were working for doing stuff for Grantland. So yeah, it was 10, 11 years ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1033.285

What do you mean you're doing the anniversary of House Hits 3? You're going to try to throw up on House again?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1043.535

Well, so I don't know where Lamar ends up now because he's definitely not on that Carl Malone level, but he also really needs one of these games. And it felt like he was finally going to get it. And there's this whole alternate universe where Mark Andrews just holds on to that one. And we've moved into this whole other sliding doors of more Buffalo pain. Oh, my God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1062.068

And now we have this Bill's Chiefs game, which we'll talk about when we do Guess the Lines. But the Chiefs, this all somehow worked out. I feel the best for them out of anybody, right? Son of a bitch. There's four teams left. I feel the best about the Chiefs, the team that we kind of looked at side eyes for 12 weeks, wondering what the hell was going on with them. And now I like them the most.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1121.096

There are these keep a drive alive calls, which is like that Will Anderson allegedly hitting Mahomes in the head or whatever. that play was when he didn't. Which feels like if we're going to review everything in the NBA and not nearly enough in the NFL, it feels like there's some sort of middle ground where they could look at that again and go, oh yeah, he didn't hit Mahomes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1198.269

I can't believe I'm about to say this because I hate it in basketball and I hate it in soccer, but I really hate it in basketball, especially during the glory days of this with Hardin and Trey Young and some of these people. I just hated it. I kind of enjoy when Mahomes does it because he's turned it He's turned it into some art form that we didn't know existed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

121.832

You missed my Thursday pod. I talked about some wildfire recovery stuff, some charities that I really liked. So the five that I mentioned, the Wildlife Recovery Fund, calfund.org, SoCal Fire Fund, that is eifoundation.org, LAFD Foundation Emergency Fire Fund. That is supportlafd.org. World Central Kitchen, wck.org. And then Habitat for Humanity, which is habitat.org. I donated to all of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1218.082

That thing that that one play when he was running out of bounds and he had the guy behind him and he slowed down like he was trying to get a call on a three point shot. I've never seen a quarterback do that before. Like the fact that He is so locked in on the situations at all times. Or when he does the quick slides as the guy's starting to dive, hoping to get a hit to the head.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1238.454

He's exploited these rules that were intended to protect all quarterbacks, including him. And he's taken it and he's turned it against the defense in this really creative way. I got to respect it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1260.451

It's, it's, it's kind of, it's like those people that they do the clear magic marker on their license plate so that the, the, the speeding cameras can't catch it. It's like, I got to respect it. It's pretty ingenious. All right. He has like five tricks like that. But, um, the thing, here's the thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1276.827

And I was on multiple texts this weekend and I go nuts when people say this and we were together with, for the first game and somebody said it when we were all together, this whole thing that he's inherited the Tom Brady Patriots getting, I know you don't like that. Yeah. This drives me crazy. This drives me crazy. I'm going to keep saying it. I was there for all those Patriot games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1297.23

Sure, the tuck roll, which was, by the way, interpreted correctly. But we are the only team where the team was, we had a deflate gate fake controversy as we were trying to win a Super Bowl. And then we won the Super Bowl. And then they suspended our quarterback way later anyway. And there's still no evidence. Everything has been debunked. We had a four-game suspension.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1319.172

I'm positive that hasn't happened to Patrick Mahomes yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1336.042

I will fully admit that he would get whiny and he would turn and he would yell at the rest, but Peyton Manning did too. Both of them did. Wasn't like it was just, it wasn't like Brady was the only one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1354.079

I'm in a defending Brady mode because even like his announcing, which has not been great, I'll be the first one to admit. And I know we've talked about it, but he does have moments of insight. During the game. We should hope so. Yeah. For 37 million a year. But there are moments like he caught the 12 men on the field. I've never seen an announcer catch that before. That was nice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1376.151

He had, I thought, when Goff threw that interception on the post pass, the deep one. And Brady was explaining, like, it actually was the right throw, but he should have led him right to left because he threw it straight. He loved the cornerbacks, love cutting that pass. And I was like, OK, here we go, Tom Brady. Don't throw a terrible ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1392.986

And then it's five more minutes of him just talking about big play. I got to get this. And I'm like, oh, God damn it. But I blame Burkhardt as much as Brady because I don't think Burkhardt sets him up enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1414.419

There's just no way. They were going to go through the back door, Mike, and now they're going through the front door. The Rams might take this, Mike. My balls are so frostbitten.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1427.987

Mike, I lost consciousness five minutes ago, Mike. Let's take a break for the podcast. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. From the first whistle to the final drive, FanDuel takes the NFL playoffs to the next level. Right now, new customers can bet $5, get $300 back in bonus bets if you win. $300 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1449.966

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1468.831

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1489.49

Bonus issue does not withdrawable bonus bets. which expires seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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149.001

I talked about it on Thursday. And if you want to help out everybody out here. That's how you can do it. So my schedule is going to be a little strange this week because I have to actually do a little unexpected traveling. So I'm not sure I'm going to have a Tuesday night podcast, but I will have two other podcasts. So it might be a Wednesday night, Thursday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1512.629

Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. Chiefs Texans, we'll go backwards. I'd like kudos to ESPN.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1541.23

First network ever to play in the air tonight by Phil Collins before a sporting event. Nobody ever thought of it. They should try Pressure by David Bowie the next time or Queen. That would be good. Or Billy Joel's Pressure. Yeah. Or Billy Joel's Pressure. Yeah. There's songs I'm just good with now. Songs that we like that we've grown up with that should just be banned from sports now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1565.023

And I feel like I've been doing this for 10 years, but we're really at a crisis point. In the air tonight, pressure. Anything from pre-89, just get it out. Let's go. Let's move to music from the last 35 years. We can do it. I'm positive. Let's go. There's been a lot of good music.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1595.24

in the air tonight. I honestly cannot believe we're still playing that first 40 minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1602.264

So that Chiefs-Texans game starts with a long special teams play followed by the Texans guy has like a meltdown, throws his helmet down, shoves his coach, and if the game has barely started... And the Chiefs go three down. It's three nothing. And then the Texans go back and it's tied at three. And it's just like, this is the weirdest game I've ever watched. But the Texans hung around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1626.861

I don't know if they actually should have won the game, but the game was, I think, closer than all of us thought. Their defense was good. Ultimately, I was never in real fear for the Chiefs. Were you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1664.63

But the receivers that we'd never heard of all year were making actually were like, that's his first pass attempt that's ever been thrown to him. It's round two. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

170.141

It might be a two part on Thursday, but it's not looking like a Tuesday podcast right now. So stay tuned. I promise I'll have two more. Plus you get the rewatchables mailbag. is coming. All right, coming up, Cousin Sal and I, we went live on YouTube, which you can watch with us on Sundays. We only have two left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1708.331

I know, but it's like what we were talking about earlier with that Baltimore Buffalo game. Like they don't beat themselves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1714.199

Houston had that play. It was a fourth and 10 in the second half. And they kind of rushed it to the line. And who was the announcer? It was Aikman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1724.11

He's like, I don't like this. They should call timeout. They were just going too fast. Fourth and 10. I think he got sacked. It's like it's the little things you just can't do against the Chiefs. And then the other thing is January Kelsey, who's just a different human being than regular season Kelsey, who they put in the garage with that car tarp over him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1742.557

You know, and then just like maybe take it out for a spin on Sundays for 10 minutes. But in the playoffs, they actually use him and their offense just felt a little more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1756.388

He looks like it's a snowy field, even though it's not. It looks like he's got the snow field cleats on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1771.219

Yeah. That's been the last really since Romo got attention. He's Aikman took it up a notch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1792.941

That was the best team this year, I think, right? That was my favorite.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1808.081

Houston special teams, that was another thing. It was a three-hour murder for them. That was another reason they lost. Missed field goals, missed extra point, kick return, all kinds of shit. They just weren't ready to win that game. in KC. We got a lot of Taylor Swift shots. Shout out to Tommy Alter in the background. I don't know if you saw him a couple times. Oh, nice. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1840.476

And then the safety... So this had one of the great gambling moments, I think, of the decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1847.12

And this has been a cottage industry now because of Instagram reels and TikTok. I don't know how long we've been talking about these stupid... Sure. This was beyond a bad beat. This was 14 seconds left. I still don't know what the point of the safety was. I guess to chew up... So basically... He runs, Reza runs backwards, runs around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1868.465

It really feels like he's going to get like stripped or it's going to be like a touchdown in the end zone or something terrible. Then he gets out and then they punt again. So I guess it saves seven seconds. So I guess my question is, was that worth it? All the things that could go wrong with your punter running around backwards in cold weather.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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188.911

We'll have next week and then post-Super Bowl, but you can go to the Bill Simmons YouTube channel and watch us, which is also where you get all the clips and videos. But the Cousin and I reacting right after the Ravens blew it against Buffalo. That's next. First, our friends from Pro Jam. These are the faces of two guys who just lost a decent amount of money. Cousin Sal is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1886.917

I'm positive I would just rather punt it and get rid of the ball and you can have the extra seven seconds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1924.525

How many block punts are you if you're actually trying not to get your punt blocked? I don't know. It felt like an overthink. It was a little much. So the other thing was the line was eight and a half all week. When we were doing ringer Sunday pregame show on Saturday, it was eight and a half before you guys started the show. And then as the game got closer, jumped to nine and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1943.928

So people got that Chiefs line somewhere around those two numbers, and then it ended at nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1954.137

It does feel like that should be a Twitter account or an emergency alert.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

1990.317

Cause we have the Washington that they cleaned up that Washington game made their playoffs. You think it did? Oh my God, yeah. It wasn't just the game. It was all the Lions bets. It was the Lions to win the NFC. It was the Lions Super Bowl bets. They were like really badly exposed with the Lions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2.128

Coming up, the cuz and I reacting to a pretty wild round two of the NFL next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more.

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2008.466

And then on top of it, everybody and their brother, including us, had some sort of tease with the Lions, the Eagles, the Chiefs, Ohio State, whatever. The Lions were in a lot of them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2030.4

Does Harrison like the same-game parlays? Is he old enough yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2036.625

Six months from now, when he turns 11, maybe he can do them. By the spring. No, I think Washington made Fando a lot of money. I think there were a lot of futures that could have been pretty bad because there was a moment, and we had some Lions bets, they were somehow undervalued even though they were clearly the best team on paper in the NFC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2070.914

I'm going to go on the record. I just blanket hate the safety running around to kill time to send it from 13 to 11 or whatever, 11 to nine. I'm just out. I don't like that play. Yeah. I don't trust safeties. I don't trust kickers. I don't trust any special teams like guys running around and all of a sudden he like gets and all of a sudden the ball's rolling around the end zone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2109.785

Don't run out of the end zone. Stupid. Yeah, there's a couple things. Maybe I've just been watching football too much for too many weeks in a row, but I can't watch another fair catch in the five-yard line. I just can't. Or the fair catch in the seven. I can't watch the guy... punting on the other team's 40, somehow punting it out of bounds anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2127.817

It just seems like anyone we know should be able to just punt like a little dribbler 25 yards that rolls out on the 10. It just doesn't seem that hard. The holding on the kickoff, I just like, I would tell everyone on my team, like that guy today on the Ravens who gets the hold where he's just bear hugging the dude from behind. It's just an automatic, you're waived at this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2149.472

If you hold on a kickoff, you're waived. I'm with you. I'm taking your job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2158.916

You have one job. Don't hold anyone. That's it. Don't hold anybody on the other team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2175.502

I don't get it either. Well- This was a great weekend for the Chiefs because I think the Ravens would have been a much tougher opponent for them than the Bills. I also think... They'll probably not say this publicly, but I think there's a lot more animosity with Buffalo than maybe Baltimore. I think that Buffalo Chiefs thing is a real thing. And I just like the Chiefs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2208.366

Come on, let's play again. We get it when it counts. It's very similar to the Pats-Colts dynamic that didn't really totally shift until the 2006 AFC title game. Right. So maybe that'll be the Bills version of that. Maybe they will be the Indy, but the problem is the game's in KC. All right, next one. We'll go Eagles-Rams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2229.792

We'll save the Lions game for last because that's going to be really fun to talk about. It'll be hurtful. I was thinking with Eagles-Rams... This is like the perfect Eagles win for the Eagles fans that we know in our lives, right? Kind of ugly. They had the game. They kind of fucked it up in the last four minutes. Sirianni and Hurts, still a lot of question marks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2255.473

It was a win, but it also was kind of like you escaped by the skin of your teeth. And then the only thing everyone can agree on is that Saquon Barkley is like the greatest Eagle of all time. And they all love Saquon Barkley. And he had another like magical game. It was basically like an AI spitting out an Eagles win in round two of the playoffs was how I felt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2288.527

They get another one, but they get to say, oh, I forgot Jake Elliott. That's another one. Jake Elliott missed the two extra points, but made some big field goals, but they could be bad at him. They could be bad at some of the strategy. It was perfect. Hurts. Strange one. He had the long touchdown drive. He ends up, he throws for 128 yards. Last week, he threw for 131.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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23.113

It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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230.914

It is Sunday night. We just watched the Ravens barely lose to the Buffalo Bills, which I guess is going to be remembered, sadly, as the Mark Andrews game. Right? It's got to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2312.133

So he's still 41 yards away from a 300-yard game. That's going to have to take him three games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2329.457

I don't completely trust them when I watch them. We both had the Eagles in a tease, but they were also six and a half. They somehow not cover, but I never feel a hundred percent comfortable with him. And then the AJ Brown is another one. Like he had another huge drop. He had like a touchdown and screwed it up. So they've been getting nothing out of him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2350.082

I don't remember how many things Devonta Smith did in that game. Goddard seemed like he was like the most reliable receiver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2372.514

Oh my God. Well, and they fucked up the end of the second quarter too. That was another one. They're up three drive. All of a sudden they're going backwards. Then they're just letting the clock run out. Cause he took a sack. He took another bad sack for that safety. Yeah. So, um, I, Washington's a live dog to me. Like, like they're, they're the classic playing with house money, a lot of momentum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2392.679

They're really good on offense. They're definitely not afraid of the Eagles. They beat them last year when they sucked, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2416.452

I was going to say, if I told you in late August... Two NFC East teams will be playing to make the Super Bowl on the third weekend in January. You'd have been so pumped. Yeah, that's not as fun to consider it that way. This is amazing. I can't believe we're one win away from the Super Bowl. We're playing the Giants? How did this work out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2436.325

It was two teams, and then the other two choices were the Commanders or the Giants. Right. You wouldn't have ever thought. We both like the Commanders. We went over on them. I mean, they have 14 wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2467.901

Yeah, I think we did a podcast segment probably four weeks ago where we were wondering if they had the three best teams. Yeah. Well, they didn't. They don't. Fast forward to the end of the movie. They did not. There was a cold weather element to the Seagulls game too. Yes. With the toughness, the Rams. Nakua had a huge drop. Kyron Williams had the fumble. Stafford had the fumble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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248.648

No, no, we're going to name this after me. Really good tight end, had a great career, and unfortunately, big fumble fourth quarter. Big drop. Two-pointer. Lamar, 3.30 left. the whole legacy drive coming, you know, like whatever, whatever happens is going to set the discourse and where it lands is he actually comes through. They have a touchdown drive, but then they lose anyway. So I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2495.169

And we live in LA. We talk about this a lot on the pod about how we're both from the East Coast. I was a guy that was always like, I wouldn't throw a coat on when it was 20 degrees outside unless I really had to. The wind chill was bad. Lived out here for three years. Then when I go back East, I'm fucking freezing every time. And I get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2517.622

When the Rams go to Philly, it's like, I get why Nakua probably, you know, like... Passed us through his hands. It's hard to get used to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2547.874

Yeah, Schrager asked me during the game. He texted me. Do you think, is this a good way to decide a playoff matchup where the weather comes in and you have a situation like that Eagles-Rams game today? And to me, 100% yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2562.971

It's such a huge part of football. I even think back to that Chargers-Bengals game when we were kids in 1980. I love that Chargers team. And then they go to Cincy and it was like minus 230 degrees and the Bengals just beat them. But it's like, that's why you play for home field advantage. Like you want, you know, you want people to come to your house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2584.071

And especially if it's like a team like Miami last year playing in, um, or they Buffalo or KC Kansas city. Yeah. It's it's just part of football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2617.591

Yeah, I think that's the right take. Yeah, because I remember one of the years when we beat the Colts, I say we, talk about the Patriots like I was on the team. There was one like super, it was the one when the fans were chanting, cut that meat at Peyton Manning because they had the cut that meat commercial.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2636.534

And it was just freezing. They scored three points and it was like a combo of our defense plus like just how cold it was. And it was like, that's why we won. It was really, that was it. The cold weather has been, a big advantage for the Pats over the years. I think Buffalo's won a couple of the Chiefs, definitely. But I like it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2671.567

Well, because sometimes it'll be two cold weather teams in bad weather. And those are usually great too. Like the Packers. What was that? Packers Giants 08. Packers Giants. Yeah. Freezing. It was like one degree. But at least the Giants were used to it. I did not feel like the Rams were that used to it today. Really good Rams here. Definitely.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2690.651

Not only did they make the final eight, it felt like... They were pretty close in that game, and it was very similar to the Baltimore thing, where it was just they made some dumb turnovers. Philly had a couple of dumb plays on their own end, but not as dumb as the Rams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2718.177

Can I give a shout out to Jack Wilson, the producer of the Ringer Sunday pregame show?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2725.261

Text from Jack Wilson, 1230 Pacific time. This is when the Rams are looking good in the Eagles game. It's like first quarter, the Rams are moving the ball. Text me, if the Rams win and House comes to LA next weekend, do we want to bring JJ out too? Since Raheem is in Vegas, that's easy because then we can all do the show in LA. Great. It wasn't even the end of the first quarter yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

273.488

I don't know what we do with the lawyer thing. I was thinking about it though, as we were like younger, um, when we would watch sports, we'd watch like people like Carl Malone and a rod and, um, pre-2006 Peyton Manning, people like that. And it was like really fun to call people chokers and, oh, this guy chokes. Oh, and this guy, when it matters, he can't show up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2748.416

So I just sent him back, jinx text. Yeah. And then Jack texts me back, shit, sorry, don't tell House. house is finding out right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2769.75

No house is happy. Cause he just, now that's a short ride to, uh, to Philly. I talked to house today, actually before the Philly game. Um, he, uh, he's, you know, obviously out of his mind, but we were talking about how crazy it would be if it was a Baltimore, Washington. Oh yeah. Like Superbowl have two teams located closer to each other ever played in a Superbowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2793.653

And we were like, this has to like, it's never been a New York, New York jets versus like, no, that's never happened. And it was almost like too weird. So the gods decided, yeah, this isn't happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2833.335

I feel like they're going to keep... It's all fine now. Let's take another break for the pod, and then we will talk about Washington and the Lions. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Hills Pet Nutrition. Hills Food, Shelter, and Love Program provides science-led nutrition for cats and dogs in shelters across America. They've helped more than 15 million pets find new homes.

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

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290.979

And it was like this really fun pre-internet thing that we would do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2941.906

Washington lions game of the weekend, possible game of the year. Certainly the most dramatic. I was at, uh, I went to UFC last night and I was just like, I'm going to watch this game when I get home. But I was kind of checking my phone. And every time I checked my phone, the score was different. What are those games? But, uh, uh, this will be my first question for you. Is this it for the lions?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

2966.84

Was this their window these two years? Can they get back? Is it ever going to get better than this for them?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

300.783

You either came through or you didn't. You were either in this group or this group. And that's just kind of the way we talked about sports before the discourse got smarter. But now... As I get older, I feel like I'm rooting for people not to fall in that bucket, to not be the Karl Malone, Greg Norman, A-Rod, Chris Webber.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3017.163

I don't think their defense was why they lost the game. No? I'll just read you some plays. 45 is a lot of points, but you don't think so? Third and one. They're up 7-3 in the Washington 25. They're passing for some reason and Goff gets strip sacked over and over again. Remember the first month of the season when the Lions didn't start out well? Yeah. And they were throwing the ball a ton.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3040.946

And we were talking about them in the pod and I was saying, I'm still in on the Lions. I just think they're a running team that for some reason is trying to air it out. I think they need to flip the seesaw and become like a pound the ball running team. They went back to... The old first month of the season lines. Again, they threw the ball over 40 times. Gibbs touched it 20 times total. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3060.241

He was, every time he touched the ball, it was 10 yards. It barely seemed like he had it. So that play was terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3074.071

Keep him in the game. He should be in the game on every third and short.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3080.835

You have Goff sailing the pick six. And if you freeze it, his receiver is in the middle of four guys. He's surrounded by a gang of players. It would have had to have been the all-time perfect throw. He sails it, picks six, almost gets concussed. He throws that end of the pick at the end of the second quarter on the post play where the guys open. He throws it to the wrong spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3104.026

And then the Jamison Williams... That option pass with the receiver, it's the biggest series of the game. It's 38-28. You have to score. You still have the whole fourth quarter, basically. You have to get three or seven. And they put the entire game in the hands of a receiver who never throws. And of course, he makes a dumb decision. It's not that it's like, oh, he shouldn't have thrown it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3126.445

you shouldn't put him in the position to throw it. That was a classic Ben Johnson. Just like, look at me. Hey, look at me. Watch these cool plays. It's like, you know what works? Fucking Jameer Gibbs. Just give him the ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

317.996

And I'm watching Lamar and I'm like, after the first two turnovers, I'm like, God damn, if he loses this game, it's really hard. You're on let down mountain now and it's really hard to get off. Weren't you thinking about that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3174.429

If you give Harrison a giant package, And you park across the street from FedEx. You're like, now cross the street and deliver it. And I want you to... And he fucks it up. Is that your fault or Harrison's? Uh...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3190.138

Yeah. Cause it's like, here's Jamison Williams. He's rolling out to the right and the guy's not open. He's not a quarterback. It's like, Oh my God, I can't believe he made a terrible decision and threw the ball. Yeah. But we see this happens every week in football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3227.171

Their defense had two fuck-ups. The McClure and the RPO touchdown. And both guys, it was comical how bad the tackling was. So that was bad. The fourth and two inside the five, they're down three. It's 31, 28. And they have 12 men on the field inexcusable. But for the most part, like I thought Daniels was incredible. And to just say all the lines, defense, the lines came up big a couple of times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3252.705

Like they came up the first quarter. They were really good. The beginning of the third quarter, they stopped him on the first drive to get the ball back. Daniels that like that throw he made to Diami Brown, that 50 yard Russell Wilson moon ball where he's covered by two guys and just catches it in stride on fourth and two, like some of the RPO stuff, like nobody's stopping that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3280.11

I just think if they don't turn the ball over, they outscore the commanders and they win. Daniels was great. They're zero blitzing. Daniels was great. They didn't turn the ball over once.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3307.05

The field was a disastrous, but I mean the fourth quarter yardage, the game was once they, once it's 38, 28 and Williams throws that pick, the game's over. I'll say this with Daniels. I said this to house today. Um, and we should have the Daniels house, especially his combo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3323.754

He's just, he was so good in that game and he had a couple of highlight plays, but for the most part, he's just, he's always doing the right thing. He's always calm. He never turns the ball over. Like if you compare him to Lamar today, um, you know, I think it's a real conversation. Is it where he ranks on like what playoff QBs would you trust the most? Cause yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3345.047

What he did last week against Tampa, what he did in that Detroit game on the road in a dome where it's super loud and he didn't fuck up once for three hours, that's fucking surreal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3382.688

All the guys were pretty... What is it? Flacco, Purdy, and... Sean King. Sanchez? Yeah, Sanchez.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3400.134

Yeah, Big Ben was the other one. All right. No, I think the comparison to me... I think my homes is the comparison, even though my homes, he had like a gap year, his first year on the chiefs, but you'd think like Daniels was in college for five years. My homes was in college for three and then at the gap year. So they're around the same age.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3418.282

And then my homes goes in that first full year as a starter and he's incredible. And he almost beats the paths and he almost beats Brady. I think that's, that's the level it's at. And we saw like when we were kids, like Marino, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3431.048

as a rookie he was awesome that first year and then that second year made the Super Bowl but or didn't make the didn't make the yeah he didn't make the second one he made that's when he had like 47 47 touch yeah so but it's on that level already and it's it's a weird one because the Pats

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3448.453

I love Drake May and I'm fine with how it turned out, but we, it was a big one of, there was two months leading up to that draft last year. It was like, is Washington going to take Drake May or Daniels and who do we want? And every past one, we're all talking about the same thing. And it came down, Daniels was three years older. Well, he was in college for five years. He's going to get hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3466.69

He's so, he's so skinny. Yeah. And, you know, he got hurt during the middle of the year. How's someone talking about this today? They kind of threw us off their scent because they played really well for the first like six weeks. He got hurt. And then it was pretty rocky and he was clearly hurt for four or five weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3483.002

Then Eckhart got hurt and they didn't really start to become the team they were in the first month. I don't feel like until that Tampa game. right? Or maybe like week 18.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3523.313

Or Tampa second and one, they get state, they have a chance to potentially go up for second one, get stuff. Third one, they screw up. It's the snap at the wrong time. All of a sudden they're kicking a field goal and they never got the ball. You know, I'm sure Tampa is like, we should have beaten these guys. Now they're in the fucking NFC title game. This sucks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3541.261

But the last piece with Daniels, I don't want to say, I really wanted to ask you who would you rather have and have Daniels versus all of these veteran quarterbacks we have, but we need to see him win a cold weather game before we have a full feel for, you know, like this at Detroit was a dome. He's going to be going to Philly next week. It's going to be cold.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3560.773

The field's going to be, you know, of fucking concrete. He's going to have this big defensive line. And if like he's, if he's as good as he was in Detroit in that scenario, I don't know what the ceiling is at that point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3601.337

Yeah. it's why it was a good hire, even though we all kind of were like, Oh my God, Dan, really Dan Quinn. You could add Ben Johnson, but right. I, when somebody's had real success, the first time they were a coach where you can go back and watch that Superbowl and, um, 13 plays in a row have to go well for the Pats for the Falcons not to win the Superbowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3623.862

Yeah. Yeah. Some of it was his fault, but, but he's clearly like a good coach. He was great for you on Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3638.967

So it's, it's funny how it works out. It's, I mean, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm on some Pats threads where Washington has now become the North Star for the Pats. Where it's like, they sucked last year, they got the second pick, they had nothing. They get the franchise QB, they get a good coach, they get a good coaching staff, they make some smart signings, they have a good draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3662.275

Some of the guys that were already on the team, they coached up so that they're actually better assets than were a year ago. They had an easy schedule. all these things where it's like, why can't that be the Pats? So thank you, Washington. You've given us hope here with the... Football's great. New England, yeah. You never know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3688.613

Well, we talk every year about the circle of teams... that have a chance to win the super bowl. And then it comes down to these goofy plays like Mark Andrews dropping the two point like Tampa, not getting a first down when it's second to one. And for the, like, what level are you at? How can, how close can you be to winning a super bowl? I did not have Washington in the circle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3710.572

Even heading into this Detroit game, I thought the line was too high. I never would have played Detroit nine and a half. I kind of like some of the alternate Washington lines. Like they were plus three and a half. They're plus one 90. And yet their defense seemed like it was such an overmatch. In that Lions game, I couldn't figure out how their defense was going to stop them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

372.199

Well, he was the reason they could never get in front in the first place. He had... Yeah. He sailed the pick... They score on the first drive. Buffalo comes back and scores. Baltimore has the ball again. They just look like they're in control. The running game hasn't even gotten going yet. And then he sails a pick 20 yards over somebody's head to the safety.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3732.882

And the answer was Jared Goff has to completely suck. Yeah. That was the one factor I didn't factor in. It's like, what if Jared Goff is just terrible? And he was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3747.493

Right. What if they have an option pass with their receiver on their biggest drive of the game? Yeah. So... And then we also had the Teddy Bridgewater has come into the game moment, which was pretty exciting. Teddy Bridgewater was coaching high school and all of a sudden it seems like Goff's concussed and anyone who had the Lions in a tease is like, oh my God, I can't even imagine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3768.22

I can't imagine what that game was like. Like talk about the extremes of like, if you're a Lions fan, And you're like, you're in there with the Bills and the Vikings and all these tortured franchises, but you also don't really have any terrible playoff losses because you've just been terrible. You know what I mean? I have losses to point to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3784.855

And now you have one of the worst losses we've had this decade where you can go back and just drive yourself crazy with 20 plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3797.944

Well, think about it. They might lose both their coordinators. I know. They're never going to be... You can never trust Goff in the same way again. I don't think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3839.017

But it wasn't the case. Really tough loss. Tough loss for us. We had Lions Super Bowl bets that I somehow didn't properly hedge with Washington. You know what happened?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3868.513

So if those teams play 10 times, how many times do the commanders win? Would you say three?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3890.303

Because I watched the whole game this morning knowing what happened. And I thought it was going to be way more one sided toward Washington. And I'm watching and I'm like, the fuck did the Lions lose this game? Every time they give the ball to Gibbs, he rushes for 12 yards or it's like a 15 yard screen pass. It's like, what what happened in this game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

390.907

And they come back from commercial and Romo's saying how, this is Matt Milano. He forced that pressure. And I'm watching, I'm like, I don't think so. I think Lamar just like gacked the play and just sailed the play. And then later that fumble he had when they're driving and it was a bad snap, picks it up and ends up getting stripped. But that was like, you know, that was like a Mac Jones fumble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3909.268

Dana's was great. And by the way, they hit those fourth downs. You feel like every fourth and two, fourth and three, that's the situation where I always feel like they're going to get it. There's other teams. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3928.374

Sorry. Yeah, his fingers are embedded. Jada Daniels, we have a lot of Washington fans in our life. This is just one of the most unbelievable turnarounds I can remember. We had, even when this happened to the Pats fans with Brady, We were still immersed in that whole Brady or Bledsoe. Who's the starter?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3947.519

And then we had this crazy, you know, Cinderella run to the Super Bowl, which you lost a lot of money on. Right. And even at the end, we were like, okay, Brady, I guess. Like, he's good. But this Jaden Daniels thing, this is... Like if you're just talking about the elite QBs that you feel the best about, he just has to be in the first sentence now with all these other guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3974.306

He's on that Mahomes 2018 level of like, this guy's here now. He's gonna be here for 20 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

3995.173

I know, but we were there for the RG3 thing. It was really fun to watch. Yeah. This is different. First of all, this guy's pulling out huge wins. He's this double threat. He's incredibly accurate. I have a lot of regrets. I really wish... I know we say this after the fact, but I really wish I had put more thought into the nobody believes in us part with Washington.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4020.38

Because you could feel it in the game and especially the quotes after. That team's got a chip on its shoulder. I don't know. I felt like... Looking back, a team that has a shitty defense or a mediocre defense, whatever you want to call the Lions defense, favored by a big spread against a team that's clearly good offensively, that completes a lot of passes and can run the ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4042.834

I'm never doing that again. I'm taking the underdog the next time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4047.929

I'm going to add that to the playoff manifesto. It's like bad defense, team that completes 70% of its passes and doesn't turn the ball over. The other thing that happened, which I don't know if that's going to get momentum this week or not, but Kingsbury, the Washington OC, grew up in Texas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4067.371

Is it like, could that be the Cowboys coach? And when you watch what he's done with Daniels and with Washington's offense, is that a better option than some of the options I've seen, which you showed me? Yes, it's a better, of course. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

41.958

When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4109.656

It's a little strange. It went awful for him in Arizona. And there's a chance it went awful because maybe there was stuff. Maybe it was a weird organization, weird quarterback. Kyler's tough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

412.62

That was like a Dorian Thompson Robinson fumble. That's like, these are the shitty quarterbacks we watched during the season. They make stupid plays like that. You're not supposed to make a play like that in this game. when it's like the best quarterback in the league versus the best quarterback in the league. Neither guy is Patrick Mahomes, but it was this big showdown and just two crappy plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4121.85

I can't really 100% hang on him for that. All right, we're going to take one more break for the pod and we're going to do Guess the Lines. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Winning is a great feeling, but let's be honest, it's even better with a prize like Michelob Ultra Superior Light Beer. And that's exactly what you'll get with Play You for an Ultra on DoorDash.

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Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4217.481

So before we do Guess the Lines, we were all together. Yeah. We went to Shakey's today. The original Shakey's we used to go to, Shakey's Pizza, which we've joked about for years and years in this pod, was on Santa Monica. in a not awesome area of Hollywood. And we used to go there and it was pretty grim. Well, that's gone. It did not survive COVID. There's a chance it could have started COVID.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4240.592

We're not sure. It either started in Wuhan or at Shakey's in Santa Monica. So we had to go to Shakey's on Sunset Boulevard past the 10, past where Netflix is, a little down further going toward... you know, that the Scientology place. And, uh, and we all went and it was like a really nice time. They had a lot of TVs and it was pretty clean and it wasn't the shakies I was accustomed to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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We'll post on Instagram. We took a Shakey's team photo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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And then just died in Landman. It felt like we had to go pay our respects to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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And it just felt like the whole game was off after that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4318.396

Is that a spoiler? Kyle, is that... Did I just spoil Landman? It came out a week ago. What is this, on Sunday? How long do I have to wait? It was a week ago. Kyle? At least eight days, it turns out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4327.739

I think you could call it a spoiler. I think you could definitely call it a spoiler. Thank you, Kyle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4331.961

Can we find out in the chat? Do people... Are they in the YouTube chat? Do they...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4348.816

Let him find out if this is a spoiler. Yes. Tom says, yes, that is a spoiler. One week is not enough. Matt Smith says, massive spoiler. Two weeks is the window. Did we decide that? Was that one of President Biden's last verdicts before he fell into this event?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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God damn. I guess I'd spoiled. Sorry. YouTube guys are great. My bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4383.699

Did he die at Shanky's? What happened? Did he eat something bad? Mojo potatoes? I wasn't positive he died, which means that they could always bring him back next season. All right. Good. Ham seemed in good spirits, though. I think he had a good time. It's fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4413.787

There was a moment where it felt like an L.A. sports bar. There were people rooting for the Rams. It's true. There was a basketball game on on one side. I was like, all right, Shakey's. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I walked to and from to Shakey's and a couple of interesting moments in the way. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4436.753

Yeah. I was watching, I did this yesterday too. I was walking, watching the game on YouTube TV. which I love YouTube TV. I'm so mad I didn't have it, but I'm not just saying that because we've done stuff with them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4463.341

But I was thinking, because eventually I'm going to die by getting hit by a car in LA somewhere when I'm walking, because I'm going to be looking at my phone and somebody's just going to pancake me. But it will probably 50% chance it's during a football game that I'm watching on my phone and I'm just walking across the street. And it's like, what happened to Bill? Yeah, that was it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4481.13

It finally happened. It's either that or me not wearing a seatbelt somewhere are going to be the two ways I go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4495.731

I got to say, every time Collinsworth talked, I was walking faster. Collinsworth was giving me energy. It was like a Gatorade. Interesting. He was having a great time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4506.974

I didn't walk during the Brady thing. But yeah, because that was the... Going to UFC yesterday, which I want to talk about after we do Guess the Lions. Guess the Lions. So let's set up the drama for Guess the Lions. You haven't beaten me since 1932, right before World War II. Right. Before that. Yeah. You are up one week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4531.429

So I can still win. I have to win this week and I have to hit the Super Bowl and beat you both weeks basically to win. You could clinch. You could beat me this week. And I honestly don't remember the last time you've won.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4553.166

No, I forgot to make a guess for the other one. I have the Eagles-Washington. All right. So that's your old game. That's three Eastern. Three Eastern. Fox. Right? Yep. All right, so I'll just give you my thought process. It's in Philadelphia. Philadelphia was favored by six and a half against the Rams. Now they're playing Washington, a team that's done pretty well against them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4579.419

I think the line has to be less than six and a half. And I'm going to say Eagles by five. Vegas zone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4610.915

So now you've basically clinched at least a tie for the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4631.9

Kansas City hosting the Buffalo Bills. Mm-hmm. I thought about putting this in the Tic Tac Zone and I'm not going to. I'm going to say Chiefs by two and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4652.782

Is it two and a half right now? Now I'm looking. Hold on. It's one and a half. I don't trust you. I don't trust you. I'm looking right now. Go ahead. America's number one sportsbook.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4671.386

Wow. So, Washington to 11 and a half. Chiefs to plus four and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4684.622

Why do we have to tease it? We can pick two winners.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4690.506

I felt that way about the Ravens. It turned out it wasn't a winner. It was a big L loser. Well, congratulations. Thanks, buddy. Nobody's happier for you than Dave Jacoby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4713.73

I would think so. I think that's a fair place to start. Is this President Trump has weighed in on this? Our new president started tomorrow. Can that be one of his first rulings? Is the spoiler alert ruling?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4749.354

It's not doing well. What? It's not? It's going badly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4753.375

Thanks. It's in bad shape. This edition of Parent Corner is brought to you by Hookah and Bondi9, their new daily trainer. So you go first and then I'll go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

479.268

I know. I thought they were a better team. You did. That's a great game. I mean, that's such a great win for Buffalo. Three turnovers to none. Baltimore misses both two-point conversions. Two plays that I didn't like, right? The first one felt a little rushed. Neither one of them was just, we're going to ram the ball down your throats and score. The second one, you're rolling Lamar out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4863.979

Yes. I watched you during Jimmy's wedding. You tried to shove Dixon into the wedding cake and knock over a $25,000 wedding cake.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4879.328

We've told that story before. I don't think people... Dixon, if he was almost like... I barely tried. He was like, no, you tried. It was like a Jedi mind trick. He was Jaden Daniels on the RPO, like just reading the defense. He saw you out of the corner of his eye and he jumped out of the way and...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4926.015

This feels early. What's going on in Manhattan beach? Oh, I don't know. Is that early?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

4933.76

Oh, just, I remember I was reading a Judy Blume book when I was a kid. Remember Judy Blume? Yeah, sure. And there was a wet dream reference in the book and my dad was driving and And I was reading the book and the pastor said, I was like, dad, what's a wet dream? Like, I didn't know. And he was like, I was like steering, coming traffic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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I remember like eighth grade was when, uh, when that dialogue started.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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This YouTube chat's kind of fun. Uh, yeah. That apparent, somebody said it's called embarrassing the children. One Oh one. Um, uh, my parent corner, I took, I took Ben to UFC last night and, um, it was at the Intuit dome. where the Clippers play, which is my favorite arena. I, I sound like I'm the show. Oh, I loved it the whole time. No, I'm in. Oh, I'm in. I love it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

501.35

It felt like the entire defense was going. He did have Andrews open, but that's not an easy play. It's 10 degrees outside. It's freezing. He's already fumbled a play before. He's falling backwards. We've seen guys drop that. It wasn't like an absolute, you know, he should have caught it, but it wasn't a layup. Also, his ass was hanging out too, kind of. It really was. He's almost naked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5013.222

Um, and, uh, running a Corolla and Corolla is all excited. Um, And I'm with Ben and see Corolla and Corolla's like, I got a special guest. It is a special guest. You're going to be surprised. I'm like, is it Joe Biden? He's like, not as high as Joe Biden, but high, almost as high. I'm like, all right. And it was Kevin Costner. Wow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5036.66

So we're in this row and Corolla is sitting between Kevin Costner and Mel Gibson. And then a couple of seats down is Anthony Kiedis, the Red Hot Chili Peppers lead singer. And sitting next to him is my son, Ben. Cause we were in this row of seats and he's just like talking to the red hot chili peppers guy watching UFC. And it's like the greatest, greatest night of his life.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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Like he's been waiting for this UFC card forever. And I was like, this is pretty cool. Like I'm glad I'm, you know, we, we spend a lot of time together, obviously, but I was like, I'm glad we could do this. And he's really pumped. It's nice. So just when I think it had, we've peaked Pereira's there, uh, Uh, like our favorite guy sitting over to the left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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So now he's like staring him down and he's like, how do we get the picture? How do we, like, we're just trying to figure out the prayer picture, but he's sitting and there's like a barrier in front of him. There's people. And now I'm like, what happens if we go over? Do we do like get Ben in the selfie? Like, like, how do we do it? And also the guy doesn't speak English.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5102.332

There's no way he knows who I am. Like, And ended up bailing on it and not being able to do it. But like for the last two hours, just trying to figure out, can we get the prayer picture? So then we found out after that Frank Ocean was there. who is like one of Ben's favorite artists who never leaves his house. He's like a recluse. And it was like, he was there too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5122.211

So Ben's like, maybe it's not true because he saw it on like freaking Snapchat or whatever. So we're leaving after and we're in the bottom where all the cars are and O'Malley's coming out and he's dressed like a crazy person in a good way. Ben's like, this is it. We got to get. And so we get the O'Malley picture. So it was a level B. It was great. It was one of the best pictures he's gotten.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5149.099

But we didn't get Pereira. How should we have attacked the Pereira picture, in your opinion? Well, how far away was he? He was like, we were, we were on one thing. So he was like probably 90. We were sitting at six o'clock. He was at nine o'clock basically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5170.423

He had a huge guy next to him, like huge scary guy next to him. And he was really into it because Hill and Uri were fighting. So he was like locked in like a motherfucker for that fight. Like, cause he's beaten both of those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5189.872

Well, then he came over to take a picture with Mel. So that was another thing. So he was like 15 feet away, but there was like 10. So we just couldn't pull it off. But that was the single most exciting celebrity moment. that I've seen Ben from an excitement standpoint. Really? That we've been in the same room with. And we've, you know, we went to a lot of cool wrestling events.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5213.457

We had Nikki Bella twerking. Eight feet from him. Two feet from us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5221.964

UFC is a 10 right now. Right. Wrestling was a 10 when he was like from age six to age 10. Yeah. And now it's like a five UFC is like a full complete 10. Yeah. But the funny thing with Pereira, cause part of it was, you know, if it's like an actor, right. If it was like whoever you'd be like, all right, we go over like, you know, they'll, they'll do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5242.409

But Pereira is just as intimidating when you're just watching him just exist. Yeah. Yeah. As he is when he's in the ring. Like he he was just motionless staring at the two guys like and he doesn't move. It's like watching Michael Myers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5258.039

So it's not like the number one guy. You just want to be like, hey, buddy, can I get a picture? Because it looks like he's just about to kill somebody at all times. I was riveted by him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5272.483

I know it's just, Pereira's locked in. The two best fights were Yuri and Hill. That was just a savage. Light heavyweight is such a great weight class. The guys just beat the shit out of each other. Every punch or kick seems like it could end it. And then Rob came out and just, from the moment he came out, he stole the show. He had the crowd.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5293.627

And the crowd was, for at least a couple of the matches, incredibly loud and really into it. They were in with Murab. They were just living and dying with every time he did that. It was great. I had a great time. The main event sucked, but that wasn't their fault. Well, they had to move it around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

531.079

Zero punts. Three turnovers. They missed two two-points. And, uh, and yet they, it felt like if it got to overtime, I thought they were going to win. And I thought they did a good job against Buffalo in the second half too. Like, you know, Alan had a chance to put the game away in that last drive when they're up. What was that? They were up five. Right. And they ran that same QB draw.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5342.771

Adam, he came over a few times and he was progressively less sober each time and having a great time. One of the funny things about UFC is after the fight, a guy loses everything. You know, in the crowd, they'll, they'll cheer one guy or the other guy, but then they lose and they'll, sometimes they'll interview the loser and the crowd are still like booing the guy. It's bad enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5363.363

The guy just lost. Like he's like reevaluating his career and it's like, yeah, let's bring him in. And they're fucking booing him. Everyone becomes an Eagles fan all of a sudden. Yeah. It's really, it's UFC is great. It's like one of the best in person things. The crowd's hilarious. Everything about it's really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5392.211

They properly did the whole, you know, they paid tribute and all that stuff. All right. The Bondi 9 delivers peak plushness for everyday miles, overhauled from top to bottom. They've increased the stack height and added a new premium foam midsole to deliver that soft, resilient ride that's become synonymous with the Bondi. Everybody Bondi. Visit HOKA.com to learn more about the Bondi 9.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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Multiple people texted me today that he slowed down on pass rush.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5427.177

He kind of paused between the two words. Yeah, so you think somebody talked to him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5440.31

That's it. Next time I talk to you, yeah, guess the lines. We're just going to play it out of pride, I guess. We'll still do it. It'll be like the Pro Bowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5457.386

It's funny you're wearing the Mets hat. Yeah, you don't have to sweat out the Super Bowl, the Cowboys, and neither of us have to sweat out baseball because the Dodgers are just, I guess, going to win the next five World Series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5477.263

Yeah, the 90s, early 2000s. The Giambi, Kevin Brown, and Randy Johnson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5511.01

Like a lefty reliever from Dubai who becomes the most popular person in Dubai.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5519.824

Well, the other thing we thought of was how the Seattle Mariners really missed this because they had Ichiro. They were way ahead of the game. They knew how much this stuff's worth. And they should have just been like, we're the Japanese-American team. They screwed up. Everyone in that country will root for the Mariners.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

553.013

It was like when I played Madden against Ben and he's just running the same play. And I'm like, I, by the fourth card, I'm like, oh, you're going to run the play where you do this and just put two guys there. He ran the QB draw seven times. And they finally were ready for it. They had to kick the field goal and it felt like they just left the door open a tiny bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5537.768

They will associate their best guys with us and will just overpay for every guy. And instead, they just gave that to the Dodgers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5556.004

They had it. Each row was huge. Yeah. Well, anyway, so we're not going to have to care about baseball. I'm on the fence. I might drop out of league of dorks. No, I've been talking about it. Yeah. It's too hard. It's just too old.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5573.322

No, it's just that we haven't won in a few years. It makes me feel bad about myself. I really want to reevaluate some of my fantasy league stuff. I'm in too many fantasy football leagues.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5589.788

Guillotine was good. I think we have to figure out our version of that. Have you gotten sad about no football yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5614.847

If FanDuel comes through, we're going to the Masters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5620.969

I think they will. Well, the thing we're having, we have a very special guest coming with us this year, potentially. Is it Kevin Costner? No, it's going to be James Babydoll Dixon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5636.355

He always clears it with the waifu. he won't just say yes. He'll say, it's a, it's a, it's a hesitant. Yes. I will let you know for sure tonight because he's, he's, and he's very happily married. I think this is one of the reasons he never makes decisions where I'm going away for a week without making it a collaborative effort. It's something to aspire to, or you can just call him a giant wuss.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5662.2

Like, I don't know which side you want to be on that, but.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5682.212

Well, it's watching him and the masters on Augusta without a cell phone. is going to single-handedly bring me out of the funk of that we started out here in January, where it just seems like this is going to be the worst year ever. But now it's giving me hope and strength. Because you have to give your cell phone at the front, but I know he's going to bring three cell phones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

569.685

Plus there was a great, I mean, it was a great weekend for weird gambling shit. Baltimore minus one and a half is lingering the whole time. The moment they missed the two point, it's like, of course they're going to win 25, 24.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5707.833

He'll have one in his shoe. He'll have almost like when people in prison movies put a shank in their shoe. He'll have an iPhone in his shoe somehow. There's no way he's not going to have a phone for eight hours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5746.169

So what would he. So if he does check the phone, but he'll have a pack of cigarettes. Yeah. That was my next question for you. One pack or two. He'll just have one, right? They let you do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5761.085

All right. Yeah. Nephi Kyle. He smoked. He smoked in the Masters. He was very excitedly. He loved it. Yeah, because you're not holding a phone. I might start smoking too. There's so many great possible variables. It's really giving me strength. Like him getting super golf analyst-y as we watch guys in the sixth hole and him repeatedly telling us how hard the shot is and doing all that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5831.894

We're talking like 10, 12 years ago. Yeah, exactly. So he's going to have to demand he stays in a house that has a lock on the bedroom door that he's in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5842.527

Because otherwise, horrible things are going to probably happen to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5858.904

Oh, man. All right. Cuz, congrats on the Guest Alliance title this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5869.613

That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle and Sarudin Gahal for producing. Remember, you can watch all the stuff we do on this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And we'll also be, I think, starting in February, officially, we'll be a video podcast on Spotify. So Only a couple weeks left until that happens. New Rewatchables, Rewatchables mailbag going Monday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5891.273

So stay tuned for that. That will also be on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. And as for the schedule for this podcast, probably not a podcast on Tuesday night, but definitely two more podcasts over the course of the week. So that's the schedule. You will hear from me at some point midweek. Stay safe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5917.276

On the way so I never said I don't have a few years with him On the way so I never said

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

592.721

And then Jake Elliott in the game before, just a random missed PAT out of nowhere. Now they're up 13 instead of 14. They're favored by six and a half. It's like, of course the Rams are going to score. This is preordained now. And then the Casey one was the worst one. The absolute worst.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

5937

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Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.

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Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

661.107

Allen, 127 yards passing. Cook, 67 yards. Allen was 10 for 20 rushing. Shakir was their best receiver at 67 yards. The next guy had 15. And they won. Ravens finished with 416 yards. Buffalo, 273. And they won. But that's the thing. I lost the Lions because of the big tease. I had the Lions with the other three favorites. I had a bet today with the Chiefs. I had the Chiefs and the Eagles combined.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

694.548

I had the Eagles and Ravens. So I scrambled back in real life a little. But the two games that I had wrong were the Lions and the Ravens. I'm not even positive I had them wrong because of just what you said. It's like... Turnovers. Okay. The one that we always talk about, like nine out of 10 times, you can kind of have a feel for a football game. And then that 10th time is the wonk game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

714.8

This felt, this game felt wonky, but that's the thing. It's 12 degrees and it's in Buffalo. And that's why so many people pick Buffalo. It's like Josh Allen home. They're used to this weather. And that was it. But man, I thought, I thought the Ravens were the best team in the league. I really did. I thought they were the best. I felt no one was picking Buffalo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

769.964

That was huge. And getting the ball at the top of the third quarter. Yeah, Henry and Hill combined were 22 for 134. Lamar was six for 39, just for rushing. But they were doing most of the stuff they wanted to do on offense. The first Lamar pick was egregious. The fumble was stupid. And then the Andrews fumble, they were driving. It felt like, you know, it felt like they had at least...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

78.423

But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new Rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did a pretty expansive mailbag. It's really fun.

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Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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I should have written this down, but I felt like they had at least four 25-yard pass plays. They had at least, I'm going to say, four or five runs of 10 to 20 yards between Hill and Henry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

806.777

I'm like, holy shit, we're the Bills. We never win games like this. This is a fucking miracle. Usually, if you bring in the Buffalo Bills history, it's Andrews fumbles that two-point, but then he holds on to it. OT, coin flip. Baltimore wins it. They go down. They win the game. You need a missed field goal now for Buffalo. Yeah. They win an OT. It's like, oh, my God.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

829.008

I mean, when Tyler Bass hit that long field goal, even then, I was like, oh, that's unusual for Buffalo. So maybe the vibes are shifting for them. This was your Super Bowl pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

854.498

So they had that first great TD drive. They had the pick. They had the fumble. They had the first and goal from the two when they just for whatever reason just went backwards and ended up getting a field goal instead of a touchdown. They had that third and 12 from Buffalo 29 in the third quarter when they were down 11. And they just get a delay a game. Now it's third and 17. They get five.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

875.904

They kick a field goal instead. But it was a lot of like little Raven stuff that usually if they lose a game like this, it's the stuff that happens. It's the reason they had the five losses during this season when you could look at all five and be like, oh, I'm not sure they should have lost that game. But that's who they are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

892.195

I felt like with the two tight ends, with the way they could run the ball and with the way Lamar could just kind of take off and scramble, they seemed kind of unstoppable and they could just kind of never keep it going for more than five minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

914.44

Even like that big kick return at the end, they get it to the 35, 33. Holding penalty. Now they're starting at the 12th. Right. You know, but I don't know. Obviously, we've never played football at the highest possible level in 12 degree weather. Speak for yourself. I don't know. I don't know how to factor that in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

949.335

Yeah, I even thought Chiefs-Texans was pretty good. So the Ravens heading into this game since 2018, including the playoffs, were 0-9 when they were trailing by 10-plus points at halftime. And now they're 0-10. And the only other team that is winless during that span is the Oakland-LA-Vegas Raiders, 0-26. Wow. So no comebacks, 10-plus. And I guess that's the Lamar era, right? 2018 on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

982.367

And yet I thought they were going to win. And I felt like it was going to happen. And especially when he made that improv play on the final drive to Wallace, when he ran out, bought some time, hit him over the middle. I was like, okay, Lamar, here we go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Baltimore Blows It, Jayden Daniels Grabs It, and More From the NFL's Divisional Round With Cousin Sal

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So stay tuned for that. You'll be able to watch it on Ringer Movies. By the way, we announced that the Bill Simmons Podcast is going to be live in Austin, Texas on Wednesday, February 19th at the Paramount Theater. Tickets are on sale at theringer.com slash events. And I'm not sure who my special guest is, but there's some really good options. So stay tuned because it's going to be fun.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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You think like Connelly is like the one point guard. Then they'll bring Edward. Edwards will have the ball sometimes. Then it'll get weird with like Alexander Walker and DiVincenzo. And that's when these OKC guys feast. Like they're over the midcourt line and they just come in waves where it's like, it's Caruso and Wallace. Now Dort's in too. Oh wait, here's Jalen Williams.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And they're just trying to make you uncomfortable. Over and over and over again. I think it's going to be a problem for Minnesota. But it became a problem for Denver. And it was one of the worst Russ games. Russ wasn't just bad. He had like three or four passes where you're just going... what is that? This is game seven. How is that the pass you just threw?

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Uh, and then Strother and Watson, you know, it was no surprise turned into pumpkins and Murray was, uh, not really playoff Jamal. And then Porter was playing with one arm and Gordon was playing with one leg. And then Caruso began the start of the game. And I, I guess, Caruso guarding Jokic, I feel like is a slight hit for the Jokic legacy that Caruso was able to do that.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But to defend Jokic, which I have to because I love Jokic, I really did feel like they were getting away with a lot with how they were pounding him physically, which they should have because they were getting away with it all serious. But I'm not really sure what Denver is supposed to do when they're defending him like that. I don't know what the move is.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Like if you're just, you're putting smaller guys, they're planning, they're pushing, they're shoving. If he's turning around and going into them, he's just going to knock them over. It's an offensive foul, right? He's not fast enough to go by him. You don't have any spacing because nobody can shoot. So I'm not sure.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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They finally like moved them to the top of the key, like 25 feet back to give him, try to give him more space. By that time it was too late. Not really sure what the move is, but I wonder if OKC might've stumbled onto a strategy with him. Now there's that many Caruso's in the league, but like, let's say it had been alternate universe, Celtics, Denver finals.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Could Drew Holiday have guarded him like that? Like could other teams, do other teams have guys that could do that? Or is Caruso just that special?

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But also the further he goes away, now I don't have his rebounding and I got Gordon on one leg. And that OKC started killing them on the boards too, which was another thing. But the turnovers, they had, I think, 23 turnovers halfway through the fourth quarter. Which, if you have over 20 just in a normal NBA game, that's a lot. That's like, whoa, didn't take care of the ball today.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So the ball was... Yeah. Okay. So you had at halftime, they're up 14 because they have this crazy run the last three minutes. They're five for 20 from three and they're up 14 and they have eight steals. And it's like, that's it. There's no road back for Denver. What you need, like Christian Brown to have like 35 points. So you need some complete, or you need Russ to flip it on.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And by the way, how mad do you think the Clippers were watching this series with Russ? I think Russ was like minus 86. Yeah. in the series games, five, game six, game seven, he was like just universally atrocious. And you think like he was one of the guys that swung that Clipper series and then turned into, he's another one who turned into a pumpkin.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But I saw, I, if I'm the Clippers, I'm still looking back at that round one being like, how, how did we not get past this team? Like how would it, what, what happened? But to Denver's credit, they were able to play 14 playoff games somehow. Just to get OKC to seven, I thought was remarkable. Because, I don't know. I just don't think the teams were close from a talent standpoint.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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The other thing with OKC is they have different looks, almost like a football team. Where they can be like, oh, we're just going to rush you conventionally. Now we're bringing in six defensive backs. Oh, now we're blitzing from this side. And you just kind of never know what to expect.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So I'm sure mentally just trying to, for Jokic, he was like a supercomputer trying to basically diagnose the problems that he can solve. And just the lineups keep changing over and over again. They were bringing, it was almost like they were like a hockey team bringing dudes in and out the second quarter. Yeah.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I think OKC is going to win the title and I'd be really surprised if they didn't, but the seeds were planted for how it wouldn't happen where you need a team that would just be able to go toe to toe with them and make them nervous.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Like they were at parts of game six, like they were in that first quarter today and you leverage their youth against them, I guess would be the recipe, but I, I just don't see anybody beating them. I think there, I, I said this to you last week. I think, uh, I think what they do on defense is the best thing anyone's doing right now.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And I don't, I don't, could there be, I'm trying to think of like the Knicks, like those five guys, the way they played in the second half of game four, the way they played for all the game six, five guys that have not, I don't think have gotten a ton of reps together as a five, as a healthy five sum. Maybe there's a ceiling there that maybe game six is a little more representative of that.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

143.234

We are coming off a dramatic Game 7. That was dramatic for about 40 minutes. And then it was 42 to 41 at one point. It was one of those. We ended up at 125-93. OKC blows out. Denver. And that was the OKC team. That was the ceiling of the team that we're always afraid of when we think about them. Big picture.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Maybe Indiana, their depth and their style of play and just their pace and how comfortable they are all playing with each other. Maybe that could be something. And maybe Minnesota with the Ant piece and then the Randall, just really punishing anybody who's smaller than him. Maybe there's some level there, but I can't see anyone touching OKC. Can you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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We found out today they don't need big. Just Alex Caruso is a 6'4 setter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Well, it's like we say every spring when we're doing these, how many guys do you actually have? Right? I think the Knicks in that last series... They have seven guys now. Now that Robinson can give them 15 minutes a game, and McBride has been, I think, a really good bench player all season. They have seven, which I think you can win the title with seven guys. Indiana has 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1597.52

We'll see if they get into a really hard series how many people that number actually is. But it probably is eight. And then maybe Obi Toppin, maybe that's nine. But you could work there. Minnesota is a team... I'm really interested to see what that number ends up being. Because you have Nas and Gobert. You have Rando. You have Ant. So there's four. DiFincenzo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1619.794

Conley, as the playoffs go along with his age, we'll see. That's six. Maybe Alexander Walker?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1633.44

And that's probably it. OKC... they might have nine or 10. I mean, I think Wallace, I, you know, I've loved him all year. I always put him in my ring or 100 voting, even though I think he plays like 19 minutes a game. But, uh, I just think they're bringing dudes out that Isaiah Joe's not even playing for them. I really like Isaiah Joe Wiggins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But more impressive that Denver even got to a game seven or do you look down on them that they didn't show up in a game seven? I would say the more impressive for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I really like, I almost feel like Wiggins is probably like, fuck, I could probably play 30 minutes for 20 teams in the league. So I guess that's what we're going to find out with, uh, with Minnesota because they're going to need everybody and they're going to be coming at Connelly. They're going to be, they're going to be pressuring. And, um, and I, I don't think it's a great matchup for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1675.202

What do you think the line is? Just out of curiosity for game one. Okay. No. Okay. See Minnesota as a series. Minus 175.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1687.781

I'm going to say minus 300. And the answer is. Oh, minus 375. Jesus. Well, I think Minnesota has a better chance than that, right? Yeah, that seems with the way Randall's playing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1736.592

If I'm betting against OKC, I'm just betting the money line in a game. Because it feels like they just, they cover those bigger spreads in their defense. If they're up 10, if they're up 12, all of a sudden it's 20 before you blink. But I'd rather just take the, go right against them. Hey, time for a special part of the show brought to you by Workday. Are you a forward thinker?

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Watching OKC today, I felt myself get relieved yet again that they didn't end up with the seventh pick in the 2025 NBA draft because that would have sucked. Because we got really close. We had two teams jumping Philly there. And OKC could have added the seventh pick to everything we're watching right now where they're already so deep. They have guys who are playing 10, 15 minutes less.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1793.447

J. Will, the other Jalen Williams, I don't even think he played in the first three quarters. That guy would have played 30 minutes for the Celtics in the Knicks series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1851.164

How many, if you did the player by player on each team, so Jokic, let's remove Jokic, Gordon, and Murray. The fourth best guy on the Nuggets was Brown.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I mean, even though he's disappointing, who else are you picking? So it has to be him, right? Supporter with one shoulder. Does he get on the court for that OKC team? Their fifth best guy. Does he play a minute in that series for them?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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He's not playing over Caruso, Dort or Wallace. So cross that off. Is he playing over Wiggins?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1903.614

I'm saying the guy we just watched the last two weeks. I don't think he plays for them in that series.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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No, but at least he's healthy. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We all have our routines during the playoffs. I'm the same man who once wore the same t-shirt every single day during the 2003 baseball playoffs. I am the same person who will tell my wife to come into the room when I need a team to win because she's good luck during the NBA playoffs. These are things that happen.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

1998.961

All right, let's do, what do you do first? Cause we can talk about Denver. They have Jokic, Murray, and Gordon at 124 million next year. They have Porter making 38.3 next year, 40.8 the year after. We're going to find out he has a torn labrum or some terrible injury. They have Nagy at eight, Brown at five, and Sarge at 5.4 player option. Do you want to report now on Sarge, 5.4?

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

2038.953

Yeah, but he's picking that one up. Why that's not a one-year deal, you can ask Calvin Booth, who's no longer the GM of the Denver Nuggets. They have their own first in 26 and 28. Their 27 and 29 firsts are top five protected going to OKC. They do not have a lot of flexibility to improve the roster. They were well under the second apron this year.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

2062.667

They had like seven, I think six, seven million to play with and just didn't get whoever, but we always talk about this every February, like go get a buyout guy. It's like, well, who, who are the buyout guys? There weren't really any good ones this year. Um, but the team, the roster wasn't good enough. Westbrook has a player option that I think he probably opts into too.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Cause that's like three and a half. So they might be stuck with him again, whether, whether you consider it stuck or not, but, um, going to be a tough roster to improve. And meanwhile, all these other teams in the West are getting better, which is why I led in the first segment with, you start to worry about the windows with this stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Because if this is the nucleus and you're just bringing this back and hoping everybody's healthier, I don't think that's going to be enough in the West.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But that's... You're shopping... You're not shopping at Whole Foods or Bristol Farms. You are shopping at a pretty grossly kept grocery store when you're shopping Michael Porter around. Like where you're picking up the ground beef going, ooh, this might have been here for a while. That's who you're looking at.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm President of Select States. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Gordon on one leg was kind of the decider. If there was any hope of them gutting it out, you need him for 44 minutes at 100% speed. But, you know, put a lot of miles on dude over the course of two weeks. They play 14 playoff games and he does a lot of stuff for them. He breaks down. I want to go big picture before we dive into the game. Because I was thinking about

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, they're never getting. Yeah. He's on a better contract too. So I don't really know what they do. And it'll be interesting because Jokic has done a great job over the years of doing the whole, I'm just here to play basketball. I leave every summer. I don't really have any opinion on anything. He's never really come out and said, I need help. I need more. He's just not wired like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But if he was ever going to do it any summer, I think it would be this one. I still feel like that Jokic, Murray, Gordon as a three-person foundation can compete for a title because we just saw it. And the rest of the supporting cast has been bad all year and it failed them at the worst possible time. I don't really know the answer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I guess it comes down to that Porter deal, whether you feel like would you have to attach a pick for it? Could you find the right GM who really likes him as an asset and gets excited about it? I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Are you looking at like you're talking to Milwaukee and hoping maybe they talk themselves into him and it's like, all right, we'll take Kuzma back and something else and get two guys, turn him into two guys and then where are you anyway?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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The numbers are grim next year and they were a lot less grim if it was a team that made the Eastern finals or the finals and they had cashed some playoff money this year. And you felt like, you know, they were headed for something special. And instead of the season abruptly ends, Tatum is out probably for next season. Who knows? Their starting five next year is $188 million.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Their top nine is $205 million. That's not counting Al or Cornette, who are free agents. Total salary is going to be around $227 approximately. Second apron is $207. So they have a huge tax bill plus a repeater tax. And with Tatum's injury, I don't see any way that they don't try to get under that second apron. Do you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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You can't move that. 32 next year, 35, 37. Player option. You want to report it now? Probably pick that one up. KP is 30.7 next year and then it expires. But the thing is like, they won the title last year. That was the price of doing business. They had to take care of holiday before the playoff started because he didn't know if he was staying or going. They didn't want that hanging over.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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They had to extend Pritchard as part of the, uh, Porzingis as part of the deal and they won the title. So, you know, when you win the title, it's, It's hard to be critical. But then when you look at these numbers, it's like, holy mackerel. I still feel like Drew would have real value for somebody because it's not a good free agent market.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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You know, this might be, I'm not saying the window's closed for Denver, but they might be moving into a different part of the journey here with Jokic in the 2020s. And I was thinking about how many teams the first half of the decade is now done, right? We're moving into this. We're now in the second part of the 2020s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think he's the type of person that you always hear younger teams want to get. Like the veteran who's been in a lot of big spots, who's a glue guy, who doesn't care about his own stats. Do you wish if you're trading for him that he was making 22 instead of 32? Probably. but it feels like that's one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And then KP is an expiring, I don't know, I guess we have to find out what's wrong with him and we still don't know for some reason. This is the most covered up illness, whatever, that I can remember where even like people around the team won't talk about it. I still don't know what it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I wouldn't use the word bullish. I think it's doable, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I mean, that's a ton for him. I don't know if he would have to attach, but maybe I'm being naive. Because I'm trying to factor it in. So there's 30 teams in the league and 10 of them every summer are like, we're one guy away from really being interesting. The problem is there's really no free agents this year. There's nobody to like, oh, this guy, that guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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It's like a lot of the Bruce Brown types, right? And the price for the Bruce Brown types in the free agency are always higher than you think, right? Or like Caldwell Pope last year. Caldwell Pope got what, 22 a year? You know, I, the problem for them is I didn't, I didn't think Drew was not good in the Knicks series. I mean, other than game five, I didn't think, I just didn't think he played well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. I kept thinking he was going to turn it on for the playoffs and he just didn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Granted, it's a player option, but... Hauser's at 10, who might be a little tradable. But yeah, I'm with you. I see it the same way as you. The whole, oh yeah, they'll trade guys and get under the second apron. I definitely spent a couple hours looking at all the teams, and you'd be surprised how many teams are just immediate cross-ups.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And you have these teams that in the first part of the decade seem like they were going to be the defining teams of the decade, right? Tatum, Celtics. Jokic's Nuggets, Giannis and the Bucks, Luka and the Mavericks. I had one more. Oh, and just like whoever, whatever team has Curry and whatever team has LeBron. And now it feels like all those windows are either closed or in danger of closing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Either they don't have that thing to trade back, or they wouldn't be interested in the first place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would have caught you in one of my first like 10 calls. I just would have wanted your advice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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It would have gone right to voicemail. And then I would have had to call back and you would answer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So you're looking at the 2020 Warriors scenario of let's just take our lumps for one year and try to be ready.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So I don't know who to blame for this second apron thing, because I think the owners are just going to try to get away. They're trying to protect themselves from themselves. They're trying not to spend too much money. And they want all these checks and balances. This is what's been the case for all professional sports forever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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They want to protect themselves from themselves, from the four, five, six, seven people in the league who are like, I don't care. Like Baum or Ishvia, I don't care. I don't care what stuff costs. I'm just going to pay. I'm just going to throw money around. And everybody else, so they put this infrastructure in. But the players' union...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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who has always run poorly and always does a bad job with this stuff. And this is the worst thing they've ever done because what they've created is a league where you can't keep Tatum and Brown together and you can't keep core people together because you can't afford to do it. And if you try to keep the two together, you can't put anyone else around them. So this is just the way it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you're going to have these three, four year windows, and then you're going to have to blow it up. And this is just what we have, which is not, I don't think what professional sports is about. Professional sports is about, I have these guys, I've followed them their whole careers. We drafted them and they showed up or I've watched them go through their prime and then age with them and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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which I just think is notable. I think this is a very strange season all of a sudden where you have a final four of Indiana and the Knicks and Minnesota and OKC. And I think all four of those teams are arrow pointing up, even not just for this year, but for next year too. And then everything else feels like they're like San Antonio, Houston might be coming.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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If we're just going to be this transactional league now, I don't think that's good for anybody. So when I think of the Brown trade, it probably is the one that makes the most sense on paper. But that means we're splitting up Tatum and Brown, which is something I never wanted them to do. And it might be the only move. You might be right. Because look at Houston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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If Houston was going to say, we'll take Jalen and Drew. and we'll give you Van Vlietback and Jabari and Eason, and we'll give you the 10th pick, and you'll save like $20 million. We can make it work with our cap. And that gets you under the second apron right there and gets you a rebuild. I think they would have to think about deals like that. And then if you're Houston...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And you can get Jalen and Drew in the same trade and give up assets, but not touch Thompson and not touch Shangoon and, you know, keep it, keep it up going. That's the type of trade. But I just, for me, it's like J trading Jalen is an all time last resort. There has to be a better option.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, it becomes a question of, do you want the person to stay in the city for his entire prime? Or in this case, the two people together?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Well, also like if you're Giannis, like I'm, I would rather kind of stay in the East if I felt like my team could be almost good enough. Right. The East is going to be awful next year compared to the wet. Like if you're just removing Boston from the picture next year in the East and you know, God only knows what's going to happen with Cleveland because they're way over the apron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I might rather, I might rather stay in the East and go to Houston and be in this like juggernaut of a conference against all of these awesome teams. I don't know. Does that guarantee me anything? Plus Giannis already won a title, which I think everybody forgets. And I don't think he's decided anything, but he already won the title. I think he just wants to be in a good team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I don't think it's about like, I need a ring. He won a title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Let's hear it. You were in Chicago for three days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, and then this whole other group of teams that have either already fell apart, like Phoenix or this other group that felt pretty unassailable two years ago, last year. And now it feels like they're on the outside. I don't really know what the reasons it's beyond injuries. I think the apron plays a little bit of it, but what, what do you, what do you think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do you think he'd be like, is Kuzma going to be on the team next year? And they're like, he is. Like, okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Just keep going left to right. Keep going. Keep going. There's one more year there. Wait, that's not an option? No. Well, let me ask you this with Giannis, though. What if he says to Milwaukee, I've decided I want to be traded. They're like, okay. But I only want to be traded to Golden State. That's where I want to go. And I won you a title. And I've been an awesome buck.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I've been here since 2013. And I represent the community in an amazing way. And all I've done is kick ass for you guys. And if you're going to trade me, I'd like to go to Golden State. So now what do you do if you're the bucks?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's looking like Draymond, Kaminga, and all of their picks and a million swaps, I guess. And that's not a headliner. I would not. Maybe Pods is in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, how about what Randall did to him? That ended the defensive player of the year debate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Wait, so this leads me to Cleveland, though, just talking about Giannis quickly. Okay. Do you want to be the Milwaukee GM or the Cleveland GM?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Is this just the league now where we just every three years, we just flip who's on top basically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What do you think? We could do the deal on July 1st when Mobley's kicker comes in. Straight up. He's six and a half years younger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think I'm done if I'm Cleveland too. I think I'm doing it. I think it's a great trade. And I don't even know if you had to say one side has to throw in something else, which team would you pick to have to throw something else in? Giannis is a better player, but Moby's six and a half years younger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. some sort of, I guess some swap in 2032, anything. I think it's a really fair trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can you sign and trade Kevin Porter Jr. and keeping him? Um, no, I think, uh, That trade makes a lot of sense to me. And I know they love Moby there. Does he have an option? Or is he two years? So Moby turns 24 in June. He has an option. And Giannis is 30. He turns 31 in December. Cleveland is really screwed with no first-round picks this year in 27-29 and swaps with Utah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So they have no... Their pick's thing's done. I guess the question for Cleveland is, do you overreact to what happened in those playoffs? Or do you say, eh... Garland was hurt. Mobile, we missed game two. The series got away from us. We're still really good. We won 64 games. And if you think that Garland wasn't super important in everything we did, then you didn't watch us this season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cause he was, our backcourt was the single biggest, like basically OKC's defense was the best thing they had. Their backcourt was the best thing that they had. And Garland wasn't Garland in that series. So that's what you would talk yourself into. And their role player sucked. Strew sucked. Jerome was super disappointing. That's where you would say, let's give this one more year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Counter would be, you could have a team that has Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Giannis on it. in a weakened East. And I think you're immediately the favorites in the East.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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With the Milwaukee, I just have to mention this, even though we talk about it every time we talk about this, they don't have any of their picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So it makes no sense for them to do a dump trade, which is why the mobile thing was so interesting to me, that they could bring back somebody that would keep them competitive and somebody they could build around and then hope, oh, when Dame comes back, maybe we'll be pretty good. And maybe we'll have cap space in two years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like there's light at the end of the tunnel where right now they don't have any. And I think it gets, when you don't have your own picks, it just gets so complicated with the rebuild because it's not really rebuild. You don't have your picks. Brooklyn's in that spot too. And they made that crazy trade with Houston last year to get their picks back so they could feel better about basically tanking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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which is what the league is now. And the league rewards that. And this goes back to the second apron discussion. The league rewards that over actually shrewdly building a smart team and putting your roster together the right way and winning trades and drafting. Now it's like, you know what you should actually do is just throw away four seasons in a row.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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accumulate a lot of picks, take some of those picks and keep trading and get more picks down the road so you have this never-ending fountain of picks. And then eventually, hopefully, you strike oil with a couple and you can have a contender. And then you could thwart the second apron that way, which is basically what Utah is trying to... Utah is basically emulating what OKC did, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Houston's emulating it to some degree. But that's, I guess, what the league would rather see people do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, yeah, like Mitchell was a good example last year. We talked about that last summer that, he kind of ran out of options. And it actually made the most sense for him to stay with Cleveland, which I think is part of what they were designing the CBA around to kind of nudge people to staying where they are. But ironically, now you have this new issue where the Celtics, you might be right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They might have to trade Jalen Brown just to right the ship financially for a year during this tragic Tatum injury. And then, so now you have a different problem. You still have the problem of stars not staying where their cities are, you know, which is why the SGA thing, I think the SGA thing is what people, I personally think that's what people want to root for.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I think they want to root for Edward staying in Minnesota and staying there for a while and starting to win titles. They want to, they want to root for Curry at age 37, trying to win one last time in golden state, everything Kobe did for, you know, two decades in LA. That's what people care about. That's what they respond to. And,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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we're unfortunately going to start moving away from it, it feels like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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It might be. Well, this season's definitely something. I don't know if it's a new thing going forward, but it's definitely some sort of era ended and some sort of new era is here, and I don't know how to really put my hands around it yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No. The good thing is that era is over. Well, that was the longest segment we've ever done. You can learn more about Workday at Workday.com. We're going to take a break and come back because I want to talk about Golden State as well, but we're staying on YouTube.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They have all their firsts. Basically, Miami has their firsts this year, but they have 26, 28, 29, and 31. And they basically have 32. They made this weird trade with Washington where they get the pick if it's 1 through 20, and Washington gets it if it's 20 through 30. So they basically have it. Draymond's got two years left. Curry and Butler have two years left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're basically locked into that core for $140 million. And Peyton and Looney are UFAs and then Kaminga is the sign and trade piece. I personally think somebody's going to sign and trade for Kaminga would be my guess because I think it's limited for agents. And I think there's enough there to fool you into thinking he's a 15 to $20 million guy. Some GM will be fooled.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Two guys that should end up on Charlotte? Yeah. Just putting up stats?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Look at these numbers where there's three teams that have cap space. Brooklyn is 58 million. Detroit's got 24.6. It might be able to get a little more. Memphis has 6.9, but could also potentially get a little more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Full non-taxpayer mid-level is San Antonio, Sacramento, Charlotte, Washington, Utah, and Atlanta. A couple of those teams feel a little Kaminga-y to me. And then taxpayer mid-level, but not full. That list has like 10 teams on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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You know what they call that? The Austin Reeves. That one day when he's like, how much? Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Fair. I don't know what Golden State does, and I don't know what makes them think a year from now, a team that got solely injured as the season went along and limped to the finish would somehow be super healthy next year. But. It was fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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It was fun right until the fourth quarter of game three against Minnesota. That was when the fun stopped. When it seemed like they were going to go up 2-1 against Minnesota and at least buy enough time for Curry to come back for game six and then Minnesota finished him off and Randall The Randall Renaissance. Did you keep any Randall stock? Did you ever have Randall stock?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, plus everything they traded to make that championship happen, right? They shouldn't feel bad about where they are now because they pushed all their chips in. They got the title out of it. And I think the Celtics are a little bit of the same way. Pushed all their chips in last year. Now they have this giant tax bill coming. And the dinner bell has arrived, you know, in a lot of ways.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Sean Marion versus Andre Miller. That's a couple of twists and turns.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, because I'm not positive he was healthy in that Minnesota series. I think that injury, he got fucked him up. And I think they could... You know, I think these guys get shot up with a whole bunch of stuff so they can play. Like, God only knows what Aaron Gordon had put in his body today so he could limp around for two hours. But I don't know if that was like a five-day injury Jimmy had.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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By the way, I'm not making excuses for Jimmy's brother. He looked exhausted. He just didn't look right to me in round two. I did not feel like that was like a vintage Jimmy performance.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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It's interesting because it feels like we've had this conversation now for... three straight years. If it's a younger team on the rise that needs like their version of the veteran guy who's been in some wars, maybe, but I just don't know where you're getting back. It's not like you're saving money. You're going to have to take somebody else's contract back. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

4290.529

No, I was thinking like a Rui and something else. But I don't think the Warriors are trading Draymond unless it's like this unbelievable deal for them, which I don't think they're getting. Reeves is getting traded. That one I would bet on. I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I would bet on it. I think they're going to turn him into something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I don't, it's just the logical thing because he's, it's the same situation the Knicks were in with Hartenstein last year where it's like, he's just going to be able to get more money outside the team than he will with the team. And he's not going to stay for less money again. So they have to trade him this summer. And by the way, I think it makes sense to trade him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I don't think it makes sense to have, if you're keeping LeBron for this year, next year, and you have Luka, and you have Reeves, we've already seen it. You're not going to be able to win four rounds with that as your top three. They need to turn him into a center.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I thought, maybe I'm wrong, but I thought there was something with the, it was a little hard, like for what the extension that he got, I think he can only get a certain level of raise unless they're like way under the cap. So I think that's the issue. but I think they're going to trade him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Coming up, we had a game seven. It wasn't that good, but we still talk two hours of NBA next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did Close Encounters of the Third Kind as part of Big Ass 70s Month. This was a very, very, very fun podcast. So that is coming. You can also watch on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I think from all indications, they're like, holy shit, we got Cooper flagged. Like if we're doing trade value list, it feels like he's already in the top like seven because of his age and the rookie contract and how impactful he's going to be right away, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Like how can you possibly, the list is so short of people I would even like entertain a phone call with him. And he's going to be so good right away in all these different ways. The Giannis... I do have some fear with Giannis if I'm trading for him. I'm not getting Giannis in his mid-20s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

4451.7

I'm getting a guy who's 31, who has been in some long seasons, who's already had some wear and tear, and who plays a really physical style of a game. You know? I just don't... I would just rather have the young guy in the rookie contract than take the ride with that. Do you disagree?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But they have five years from now when he turns down his rookie extension and just comes to the cells. I'm counting on you, Kelly flags, Kelly flag. She's got our backs. 2030 Celtics. Come on, Kelly Flagg.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Why wouldn't you trade Davis? as weird as that would be to consider he was the focal point of the Luca trade, but wouldn't it make more sense to trade Davis and try to build a team that has a different timeline?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But what if San Antonio said second pick and the cell, I don't even think they would do this, by the way. I'm just using this hypothetical range of what AD might be worth. If San Antonio's like, you know what? We feel like Wemby's ready right now. We'll do the second pick in Vassell right now for AD.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And it's Matt Ishbia who's already done nine things we disagreed with. I don't know. So you think Dallas would have to throw in more in that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I would say Booker's value is not as high as it used to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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He's born in 1996, so that makes him 28 years old, 29 in October. So he's, I think, three years younger than Davis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Do you have to think about this? I'm a bad person to ask because I'm not convinced AD can stay on a basketball court. I do have to think about it. So that's your answer. I was really unimpressed by Booker the last two years. I don't understand why it wasn't more of his fault that his team went to hell in a handbasket and couldn't even make the playoffs. And he was somehow absolved from this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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when we both thought he was like a really special player who should be in the short list of franchise guys. I don't understand why they were so bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I'm not the person to ask about. I'm not the person to ask with AD because I default toward not thinking he's going to be at a basketball court, but I don't know if I'm in the minority or not on that. That was one of the things I thought was so crazy with Dallas. Like, I just don't trust that he's going to play nine months of basketball in a season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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especially they trade for him and he got hurt again. What if it was... What if it was... Where's the other one? What if there was something with Brooklyn where Brooklyn traded for Davis and Cam Johnson, the eighth pick in the draft and Moore first and it was like a reboot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Maybe Nick Claxton like... I don't know. My point is I couldn't figure out the AD trade, even though I think it probably makes sense for them to trade AD, but maybe they can decide to do that in February. I don't understand the team they have now. I guess they'd have to play flag at small forward. But if I'm Dallas, all I care about is flag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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That's my number one, number two, and number three priorities is how can I put this guy in his position to succeed for the next five years? And I'm not positive him playing small forward is how he's succeeding. But they have these two centers and they have Davis. So then plan B, I guess, would be to trade at least one of the centers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And maybe you could just have Lively, Davis, and Flagg, and those are your three guys, and you split up the 96 minutes with those three guys, and you feel like Davis is going to get hurt sometimes anyway. But they probably have to trade Gafford. That might be the move. That's probably the easiest solve.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Right. If I'm them, I want to keep Flagg and Lively. Because now, short-term and long-term, that's where I'm in business with those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

4882.53

True. True. But maybe he'd have value for the right thing. Anyway, I think it'd be hard to trade AD. I have another draft trade for you. What if Philly didn't want to stay at three? And what if they wanted to move back a couple spots? And what if they called New Orleans and said, we'll give you three and Oubre's expiring for seven and Herb Jones? Call it him right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I figured you would. Feels like a Daryl-y trade, right? Still loves, he ends up with like Knipple at seven and Herb Jones, and that's what they turn the third pick into.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But I'm not I'm not letting McCain change who the right player is for my third pick. I like McCain. He was so good this year. I know. I really like him. Indiana has multiple really good guards. It's not like, oh, we have too many good guards. That feels like a good problem to have for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I feel like two and three, and I know you talk to way more people than I did this week because the combine is the Super Bowl for that. I feel like two, three, and four are wide open. I'm not convinced San Antonio is taking Harper second. I'm not. I would say Harper feels like... They think outside the box more than anybody, though. Yeah. Where they're just like, hey, we like this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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We don't care what the mock drafts say. We like this guy the most. We're taking him second. Well, is Harper the most likely guy to go there? Probably. But I just think if anyone's just... They're like Danny. I would never trust Danny with a mock draft versus if he just likes somebody, he's just going to take the guy. You know? They might say, whoa, Trey Johnson, this guy... We love this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I think it was kind of normal, though. I think what shifted...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Cause I think the mocks Durant was even bigger cause he didn't even have the resume at that point to fall back on and they would have taken Durant first.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Well, but we're going to talk about the Celtics later. And one of the things with them is you look at all the moves they made individually. Don't be sarcastic. You look at all the moves they made one by one. It's good drafting and good trades, right? That was a little sauce. But it's not like they traded five first round picks to get to where they were. But now they're screwed anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And that might be too much to flip with Philly. But if I'm Brooklyn and I can get in the top three, I'm trying to do it. And that's the other one. I just feel like Philly with the... Talk about windows. I don't know what their... Their window with Embiid might already be shattered and there might be wooden glass everywhere. But they don't have time to wait on some 19-year-old kid with Embiid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I don't think. So they're basically... And George, who's going to be 35 years old. But thank God he's podcasting again. They need to move... fast on turning this pick into people who can help them next year. If they're actually trying to get 10 plus the East, like we talked about earlier with Giannis leaving the East potentially and Tatum being out like the windows now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So, you know, if they get Cam Johnson in the eight for the three, I would do it. Unless I felt like one of those guys, like I'm kind of with, and I haven't done all my work yet. You're way ahead of me in the draft stuff, but I'm with you on the edge comb like that. His, his, The clips of him are unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like everything you want in the NBA now is a guy who is that athletic and can go to the basket like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Speaking of John Collins, we got to take one more break for the podcast. We'll keep going on YouTube. John Collins was in one of my get the Celtics under the second apron trades. Yeah. Weren't expecting that, were you? Porzingis for John Collins just saves the Celtics 4.1 million. And Utah thought they were getting Porzingis a couple years ago, and then he had a chance to go to Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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He did that instead. So they've always liked him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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All right. I was trying to steal him. Holiday to Memphis for Conchar? Maybe that's a trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

5384.075

I'd call a second time for Pippen. No, I'd keep trying for Pippen first. I love Pippen. Holiday to Detroit for Fontecchio. I thought was the most interesting because that actually makes sense to me for Detroit. That's the exact type of guy they need for the team they have with Ivy coming back in that Schroeder spot with all the other stuff they're probably going to want to do in the East.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I actually think OKC, and we should talk about the game, but OKC is probably the last team that has a chance to keep it going for seven, eight years because they have all these picks. And eventually, they'll probably trade Dort this summer, regardless of what happens, because they can replace him, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And the fact that they're not going to be able to sign a free agent. And I don't know, maybe that's one too. That would say the Celtics 24 million. I feel bad trying to trade Drew Holiday because I love Drew Holiday. But if the assignment is you have to shave 20 million, he's the most logical candidate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, Holland, I'm assuming that they think Holland's going to grab some of those minutes. The thing with Memphis is just, I think some of these smaller market teams do not lure free agents as we've seen for the last four decades. And the best way for them to add an impact veteran is to trade for one that's under contract. And that's a possibility for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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We should have won the title Celtics seasons. My top four. Do you think 25 is on the list? I'm just giving you a top four. You think 25 made the list?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And I'll tell you this. Game four was, they lost before Tatum went down. They were down nine. or I guess Tatum went down as the steel layup. They were down three, one in the series. And let's say Tatum never gets hurt. I still don't know if they, I don't think they went three in a row without Porzingis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Do you think they could have won three in a row without Porzingis or, or the ghost of Porzingis or zombie Porzingis, whatever version of Porzingis that was. It was terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I don't think they could have done it. They blew the series in those first two games is where I've kind of landed on a Sunday after the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And you could probably send that money out, maybe bet on one of your draft picks or bet on the cheaper guy or whatever. But you can constantly be replenishing as long as you have SGA and Williams and maybe Holmgren, or maybe it's two of the three. But they have the best chance to do it. But you're also, they're going to be penalized too for the same thing. They did a great job building the roster.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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The second half of game four for the Knicks and game six for the Knicks is the best I've felt about them as a team all year. I was really impressed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Oh, God. Yeah, that was great. I got to defend the Knicks fans for a second because they took some shit for the over-celebrating, getting that around too. I was fine with it. I mean, that team hasn't had anything good happen to them in 25 years, other than Linsanity and beating like the ghost of the Celtics in 2013. Like they should have celebrated like that. It's a Friday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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It reminded me a little of that when the Celtics had that comeback Nets win and then nothing good had happened with the Celtics for nine years and everybody just went out in the streets and got drunk in Boston. Same thing. It's like they deserved it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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That team, all those fans have been through so much shit and so many bad, stupid management things and owner things and so much bad luck and bad lottery luck. Like, I would have expected them to celebrate that way. And if they make it two more rounds, I can't even imagine what that's going to be like. But both of us know a ton of Knicks fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I was happy for a lot of people, even though it was at the expense of my team. I thought it was a pretty cool story.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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There's some Red Sox parallels. I see it. I feel it. They haven't won in 52 years. It's like you're talking entire generations of people. You're talking people like Koppelman's son is in his mid-late 20s now. He's never even seen them win a game like that. So I don't know. I was feeling for them positively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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They did a great job assembling all those picks. And they're probably going to be screwed anyway. Once like the MVP stuff kicks in, those little kickers, like Cleveland is screwed with the Mobley thing. His salary went up 8 million bucks. We're going to talk about them later too. They're $200 million for eight guys next year. They haven't made the conference finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Eight years of watching it. Like you kind of know the signs. It's like, you know, being in a marriage or something where you're like, oh, my wife seems pissed right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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They're going to walk the ball up and start the offense. Eight seconds left in the shot clock.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Mike Conley is still working. That's why Chris Paul can still get 30 minutes a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So I just think it almost feels like there's this reckoning coming where the salaries are going to have to really shift. We talked about it. The moment they did that CBA and you and I were trying to figure it out and we were like, what is this? Why does it seem like this is bad for the players ultimately? I think this is the summer where it's going to be bad for the players.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So you're saying like a Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, any of those old school point guards that we grew up with?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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But wouldn't you put Halliburton in this though? Because I think I really like some of the decisions he made in those first two rounds. I mean, he's a real point guard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

6011.87

But you're just talking half court. The other thing is he's getting fast break transition stuff too. You're right. But, but that's the bonus of that's the stuff you don't get with Tatum and the Celtics. Cause he's not wired to be like rebound. I'm going to try to create a, you know, even like Jokic is wired that way. But I see what you're saying though, with this stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Just over and over again, same. I see what you're saying.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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No, I think there's one other piece that you're not factoring in that I think is important. Because you were talking about how more bigs. We also have more bigs now that can play this style. And I think that took like 12 years to shift. Totally. Because remember like those 2012-13 bigs? I always think we talked about Brandon Bass and the 2012 Eastern Conference Finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Like this type of forward that just no longer exists. Or Big Baby Davis. Yeah. Or like the PJ Brown. Those guys are all gone. And now it's turned into this new version of those guys where it's like Mitchell Robinson is almost the throwback center. He totally is. He's not almost. He is. But you can... Well, you know what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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He's guarding Derek White 25 feet from the basket. That wasn't happening in 2012. So it's like even if you're big, you're accumulating these new skills that I don't think the guys from the previous generation had. Combined with you have like these Chet Holmgren types that are this new version of a center where it's like they're 25 feet from the basket, they're spacing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So I just think we have better talent to play you know, these ways to play the double big that maybe we did when it was Ante Zizic. Zizic, what was his name? Perrantich?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Wow. I know they can fix the ping pong balls. I think the whole discussion is Al Horford. If you just look at his basketball reference, that is, that is the roadmap. That is the IMDB of how basketball changed where he's zero free, zero threes a game to like one to all of a sudden he's at like five. And now when you look, he's like no free throws and threes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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And this was a guy who used to, you know, post up and play near the basket. Now he doesn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Blake Griffin, near the end of his career, became more of a three-point shooter. But if he came into the league being a three-point shooter, combined with all the other stuff he had, it's... Pretty interesting. Um, so that was what you guys were, that was one of the combine discussions of is the, the way people are playing basketball is something broken. Is it fixable? Like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Well, because it was the math was on their side. And then they won the title last year, which makes you think you're invincible. But they sure. I mean, the I mean, the last minute of game one was an atrocity. The shots they got and then the fact that they repeated it in game two. You know, it was even worse.

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It's interesting with Minnesota because Minnesota is a hybrid of both of these worlds, right? Where you're, what you're talking about is basically the ant issue where it's when they're at their worst, it's him trying to do the same thing over and over again. And teams like threatening to send a second guy, not him getting frustrated. That's usually when they unravel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then they added this Randall piece and now they have these two different versions on offense that they can kind of attack you with. It was notable in those Laker games. Like, at some point, you're realizing Randall's just not having a good game. Like, he's attacking them and they can't match up with it. And I felt the same way in Golden State. We'll see with OKC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There was a lot of pride, championship DNA, and that one game where Gordon hit the game winning three was a pretty lucky win, right? Even though it was a great win for Denver, it was still pretty fluky, I guess. Them winning three was an achievement, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Definitely. Yeah, if I was going to bet the finals, I still think OKC is going to win the title, but I would probably do the... I'd probably do the SGA to win the finals MVP, I think is the best value. Although it's basically the same as OKC. OKC is minus 185. The Knicks are plus 490. Minnesota is 6-1 and Indiana is 8-1. And this is, I guess we can hit the finish line with this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I picked the Knicks to kill Detroit. I thought they were going to win in less than six. It took a little longer. I thought the Celtics were going to kill the Knicks in round two. They didn't. I like Indiana and against the Knicks in the series. I think Indiana is going to win the series as a bet. Like the Pacers are plus one 26 and the Knicks are minus one 48. I think that should be a 50 50.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I think you're getting more value with the Pacers at plus one 26. Cause I honestly, I think the Pacers have a slightly better team. They're deeper. I think this is a good matchup for them. And I, I continue to really believe in them. I think they're really good. Um, So for me, I would take the plus 126 if I was betting on this. That line's moved a little. It was plus 140. It's dropped.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What do you have? You think the Knicks or the Pacers?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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I have one thing to say because I was too positive about the Knicks. So I'm just going to put sports hate. My sports hate. This is an actual hate. I really grew to hate Carl Anthony Towns by the end of that series. I wasn't a huge fan to begin with. I'm just talking. Oh my God. I'm just talking sports hate, irrational. I'm a Celtics fan. Just you end up not liking certain people on the other team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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By the end of game six, I was just like, oh my God, I can't wait for some team to...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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expose him he just drove me fucking crazy um especially when they go up 15 20 and then he starts like you know punishing al horford i was like oh he drives me crazy i hated rooting against him well you get to do it again well i haven't decided what i'm betting but i'm leaning toward pacers but to me this is a no-lose series because it's going to be super fun either way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Um, I really like watching Indiana. I think they've been a revelation and teams, people just continue to underrate them for some reason, which I don't really understand. Now the Cleveland thing, it's like, Oh, that mobile and Garland. And they, they, they, I thought they broke Cleveland by the, by game five. I really did. I thought, I thought Cleveland like melted.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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If you like movies, by the way, I went on Sean Fennessey's Big Picture podcast. We did a Tom Cruise movie draft. Me, Van Lathan, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Amanda Dobbins. Spoiler, I thought I won the draft, but you guys can decide. I thought I waxed everybody. Who knows? Coming up on this podcast, OKC killed Denver in Game 7, and we're going to talk about that, the ramifications.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, and it was the whole Cavs team, too. I also think they have the right level of feistiness that you actually need in MSG, which I'm not positive the Celtics... had at certain points in that Knicks series. There was a couple points where Jalen Brown stood up to Josh Hart. But I think the Knicks, they're an aggro team.

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Well, the other thing they do is the 94 feet of just putting wear and tear and I'm just bringing the ball up, which I continue to think is underrated. And the Pacers love doing that. They did it to McConnell. They love it. They want to just wear you down. They want to put miles on you during the game. Dumb miles that don't matter in the big scheme of things. But that's how they're wired.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They come, come, come, come. I think they're really good. And there's a moment here for either Brunson or Halliburton. Right. Brunson, if they make the finals... you're moving into this completely different territory in the city.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he might already be there, but you bring that team to the finals with some of the late game stuff that he's did and just how likeable and fucking awesome of a guy that he is. Just making the finals, you could dine off that for the next 50 years, much less winning. I mean, now they have a real chance to win. But Halliburton, who I didn't even vote for for All-NBA, who was in that overrated poll,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think that's because people can't stand him though he's been a pretty polarizing guy didn't play in the dream team all that stuff and I think he's been awesome in these playoffs I've been really impressed and he has a chance you know to really put himself on the map here because he's the best guy on that team so there's big stakes there the stakes on the other the other battle is easier because if Minnesota beats OKC now we're moving toward this Edwards might be actually ready

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Like that's like, I'm not ready to, we'll talk about that in a week, but like Edwards going through this gauntlet and all the fucking dudes OKC has that they'll be able to throw at him for seven games. If he gets through that, this is like, we might be ready to have the combo. Like, is it time?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Neesmith's going to be a real problem for them, too, because he's turned into one of the best defensive guys in the league. And I think one of the problems with the Celtics in that last series is Holiday didn't do a good enough job on Brunson. He didn't.

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And Tatum was covering him, too, before he got hurt. They were using their forwards to guard Brunson. Indiana has way more options.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but you could have said that about Caruso and Dorton. That's the thing. It feels like if you can establish it in the first quarter, then you can get away with it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's crazy. Well, if you're the Knicks, this couldn't have broke better. You get rid of Boston. you have Mitchell Robertson healthy, which I would have, I would have put the odds at like five to one in October. OG's at least out there. Um, And you look the best you've ever looked all season in game six.

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We were calling for half the season. Well, the other thing is everyone on the team is the hungriest you can possibly be, which was reminiscent of the Celtics last year, right? There's a hunger level with them. Not that everybody else doesn't have it, but these are all these guys that are really interesting points in their career that have this whole city behind them in this crazy way.

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It's going to be a tall task for Indiana. I think Indiana is slightly better than them. I don't think that's going to mean they're going to win the series, but I think Indiana is really good. We'll see. Those threes, when you're down 3-2 in a series...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and they're home in Indiana in game six, and they need to hit some shots, and you miss a couple, and it ends up being like that Denver game where you're down 15, and you start doing the math, like, oh, God, we got to get going, and the sphincters start tightening. Flip side will be the Knicks. But anyway, good Final Four. I think this is weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's unconventional, but I like both of the matchups, so we'll see what happens. I didn't finish my list for you before we go. My four titles. My should have won titles. Number one, 1958. Bill Russell, sprained ankle. Bob Pettit, right? Bob Pettit. Number two, 2009. KG. Number three, 1982. Tiny Archibald's shoulder. I still think we win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. I mean, he has all these picks that enable him to basically, oh, I need to get out of this $25 million guy and move him into a $12 million guy and I can reward another team. It's the situation the Celtics are in right now because it's impossible for them not to do a trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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So we're plus one. But I wouldn't put 25. I thought this team had a chance, but you know. I'm not going to look back 40 years from now and be like, oh, we should have won that year. The team... The Porzingis thing was super weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're so good to see you. We'll be back next Sunday. You have your podcast Tuesday and Thursday. I look forward to talking more basketball. Thanks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo. As always, thanks to Rosillo. I am going to be back, I think on Tuesday and probably on Thursday as well. And I'm going to be on the rewatchables on Monday doing Close Encounters of the Third Kind. And I will see you Monday and Tuesday.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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They're going to have to do one if they're over the second apron as badly as they are, which I think it's like 20 million. So like, for instance, everyone's like, well, they'll trade Holiday or Porzingis. It's like, okay, well, who's taking them? What are the Celtics getting back to make the math work for the trade? And then how does that help them? But I don't want to step in the Celtics thing.

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Let's do OKC while they won. Did you feel like they went through playoff puberty in this game in some ways? It felt like that a little bit. They were tight in the first quarter, like legit. I felt like there was two guys that showed up for their first quarter, SGA and Caruso and everybody else. The sphincters were like this.

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The Nuggets had four guys like that that OKC was like, go ahead.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Does this mean OKC is smooth sailing now until the finals? We are also going to talk about the four What Do You Do teams that lost in round two. What do you do if you're Cleveland? What do you do if you're Boston? We'll talk some draft stuff, or so is at the Combine, and some future basketball stuff as well. So this is a good one. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. Priscilla's here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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Well, especially with Gordon Hurt, you knew the zone was going to be even bigger.

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Yeah, he started to attack. He was 42-41. I'm not a lab better, and I'm also, gambling's not legal in California, but... It felt like the perfect live bet spot because Gordon had given them a lot in the first quarter. Brown had made some shots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

OKC Ends Denver, "Whaddya Do" Second-Round Losers, and Knicks-Pacers Predictions With Ryen Russillo

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okc missed everything from three i think they were like one for ten at some point and you could just feel the game you could feel it starting to shift potentially and then and they hadn't taken any free throws when it was like right and denver had like 10 free throws something like that um but that caruso wallace combo which i think is going to be a real problem for minnesota too like i like even thinking not to jump ahead to the next series but

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action.

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And I think it'll be a good series. I think OKC will win. But imagine saying that six weeks ago about Golden State. They looked like they were dead.

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It was a nine episode series and we'll be dropping episodes, I think twice a week over the course of the next month, especially relevant now that OKC is the favorite to win the NBA title. So anyway, you can check that out. And then last thing, Fandle Sportsbook doing player performance doubles, two leg parlays on Tuesdays, player prop combined with a team to win. And we're doing a ringer PBT

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No, it's just, I think the thing that I've noticed already with Butler, I think it's so hard to just kind of move into that Golden State system and figure out how to play with Steph the right ways. And Butler's already figured it out. He's like, oh, I got the ball in the corner, but now I see Steph floating around behind me. I'm going to screen my guy and give back to him.

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Like he's already, it feels like he's played like a hundred games with them, you know? And the only reason I mentioned the OKC thing, and I think OKC is the best team in the league. I just feel like they've had, I believe in the model of we've played this team really well over the years. Cause I feel the same way about Milwaukee and Cleveland.

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Cleveland's better than Milwaukee, but Milwaukee's played good games against them. I've watched some of them, like their battles. They have a real issue with Giannis.

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I don't love the Durant-Shangoon mix. I don't like them as a combo because I can't play any of their real tall guys who can protect the rim with those two.

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I know. It's weird. And their record is kind of... They've hung around. I think we all thought they were going to dip. Booker makes way more sense to me with Houston than Durant does. Booker is exactly what they need. That's one of those. If you just replace Jalen Green with Booker, you'd be like, holy shit, okay.

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But 06, remember, you remember this. Nobody else does. Pierce was awesome that one year when they went like 35 and 47. Pierce was incredible. He was like carrying, there was like nobody. So the question is, is he more Paul Pierce or is he more Ray Allen?

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a profit boost token on any player performance bet placed on Tuesday games. You get one choice. I'm going to tweet out my picks on Tuesday. We've got some good games. Milwaukee Golden State on Tuesday, Cleveland and the Clippers. Stay tuned for my picks. Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app.

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The pace was way slower back then. Everybody was, you know, 27 a game back then was like 32 now.

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Pierce is the right comparison. You're right. Cause Pierce was a little better than Ray Allen as a two way guy.

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Ishby did that in the interview. He talked about it. Everyone wants to blow it up.

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The Celtics had a bunch of assets and they had at least cap space coming down the road and moves to make in the last three years of that decade. And I think the difference with the Suns is what are the moves? Because even if you trade Durant, you got to get contracts back I don't even think they're allowed to take two guys back for him because they're so far over the apron.

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So you almost have to take one guy back or trade him to a team that could take on the cap space. You got to get assets back, but then you got to turn those assets into more booker help. You aren't able to sign anybody in free agency and you have no picks. Like, the Celtics that year, they had Al Jefferson, and they had Rondo, and, you know, they had Gerald Green, who weirdly had value.

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They had Ryan Gomes. They had first-round picks to trade. Like, the Phoenix doesn't have any of that. I would be... If I was a Suns fan, I'd be so bummed out. Because I don't think there's anything worse than being unwatchable, but also having no hope for the next couple years. And I don't see how you have hope if you're them.

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You keep them at that point, at least for another year. And you try to make the best of rant deal you can. And yeah, you fire everybody who told you you shouldn't trade for Bradley Beal with a no trade clause. I think whoever's left in the building who was like, I do it. They have to go. You just have to clear, clear the deck.

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This Tuesday coming up, Priscilla and I are going to talk a lot of NBA stuff. We are just disgusted with the Suns. Intrigued by the Cavs. OKC, where are they going? We have a lot of fun little gimmicks for you. We'll talk about season number two. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are taping this. It is 4 o'clock on a Sunday afternoon.

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Cause that's like, we did the worst contracts draft and was took Bradley Beal first. And he was right to trade for that. When you have no, to trade for a contract with no outs. is the most irresponsible thing you can do as a franchise. And then the Embiid contract's probably second. Well, I don't know what they do.

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And it's one of the most shocking things I can remember in recent NBA history because we thought Phoenix was going to be good. Like legit good. And they're the opposite. They're awful. We'll take a break. I have a couple more things to throw you related to this. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel.

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residents, excluding Maryland residents, 21 and up. Ends on May 5th, 2025. See official rules at McGlobaltric.com slash rules for price and detail. Message and data rates may apply void where prohibited. All right. So I mentioned the, I just don't have an answer with the Suns. I got really mad about the Austin Reeves thing over the weekend with the Spurs. And I almost did a whole tweet thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I was like, I think I've already tweeted about this. I went back and saw what they used their cap for that summer. It was Chetty Osmond and Cam Payne. And they just could have had Reeves. I don't think they ever made, the story I heard was that Reeves and his camp was waiting for an offer, waiting for an offer. And the Spurs were like, we're going to get one, we're going to get one.

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And then the Lakers smartly were like, you got to tell us by tonight if you're doing this. And the Spurs were just too late, never did it. And then after the fact, we're like, yeah, you know, we're a year away. But I was just, it made me so mad thinking two Texas teams have rebuilt the Lakers and The Mavericks and the Spurs.

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The Lakers are just headed toward the cliff with old LeBron and AD hitting his mid-30s and no real ability to rebuild. And now they're going to be really good for the next 10 years. And it's because of these two dumbass Texas teams. It makes me so mad.

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I'll do it every three weeks. He's Reeves is legitimately good. Like could Reeves make the all-star team? I think he could not this year, but like in the next three years, could he be an all-star? Yeah, I think he could. Is he as good as like Jeff Hornacek was? I think he is like Reeves is. I want to do a third banana list with you and see where he ranks in the third bananas.

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How? I don't, that's where, you know, and the Spurs have done good stuff over the years. Like they nailed the Castle pick last year. No, I mean, in recent times, they nailed the Castle pick. Right. I'm just saying the Spurs track record's been pretty good. Spurs track record's good. I'm talking recently. Maybe not as good.

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I think Reeves is a miss. It's a huge miss. They had the cap space. Trade him. He's an asset. Or sign him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. So that's one. Another one I don't have an answer for. That almost sounded like cowherd right there. Thank you. Still don't have a real answer for why the Embed extension happened. And here's another one you and I have talked about for a while. And there's still some buck passing going on with it. And nobody's really owned it yet. I've heard various stories about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I've gotten some intel on it. Can you share? Give me what you've heard. He means a lot to Philly. It's the right thing to do. If his body breaks down, we'll be able to cover it with insurance anyway. It'll be a huge distraction if we don't do this. We should just do it. And odds are he's going to be healthy. Was the case.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They make every decision that's even 10% as important as this. They're making the decision. It's ridiculous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Good news. No, it's so true. Well, and the owner can become the boogeyman sometimes when you talk to teams where if it was a draft pick that you're like, wow. And the owner really pushed for that. So that's kind of, we shouldn't listen to him on that. So you never know what's real and not real.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's some of that stuff too. We know the teams. I don't want to list them because I don't want to betray anybody. But there's some teams where they use owners as a boogeyman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All the March Madness stuff just came out. Our long national nightmare is over. Another Phoenix Suns nationally televised game is behind us. How much longer, Rosillo? Here's the case for the season being too long. We don't have to go through the death march of the last 20 Suns games, among other things. But God, can't they move stuff around? Can't they flex? What can they do?

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Josh has run companies. He owns two professional sports teams that are very expensive and have a lot of employees. He's not just passing off that decision to somebody else. This is not a defense of Daryl because I'm sure Daryl really wanted to do it too. But to make it seem like you had to be talked into it, but deep down you knew it was a bad idea. Like, get the fuck out of here. Stop.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Phoenix in Shambles, Cleveland’s Ceiling, Best Third Bananas, NBA Refs, St. John’s, and ‘Season on the Brink’ With Ryen Russillo

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And by the way, the ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit the ringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states game problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, going to talk a lot of basketball, and somehow we're barely going to talk about March Madness. I'm sorry. We love the NBA.

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Yeah. Take a year. Here's another one. I just don't have an answer for it. Oh, this is a good one. Is Denver good? Ooh, now you're cooking. Are they good? Like if they lost 4-1 in round one, would you be like, I can't believe it. There were no signs at all. If they made the Western finals, would you be like, I can't believe they made the Western finals. I don't know.

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To me, they are like, I don't know what to expect. They're like one of those boxers that they could knock somebody out. They could get knocked out. It could be, or they're almost like a UFC fighter. I don't know what UFC fighter that would be like. Gaethje. Gaethje might just get fucking cold cocked. Rock cold? He might have an awesome fight today. I watched a lot of the Laker game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, but I watched almost that entire Laker game. when they didn't have Luka and they didn't have LeBron. And they're just hanging with Reeves and Connect. That's what made me so mad about Reeves on Friday night. And Denver was trying and they were home and they needed the game. And they're barely hanging on against this like G League Laker team with Reeves. And I was just like, what the fuck?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like to me, we talked a week ago about the MVP of the Oak Edge. Like it's, I don't know what scenario would happen for SGA not to win the MVP at this point after the week he had. But is Denver good?

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They hate watching each other as they play basketball together. It's a pretty rare situation of a team that seems reasonably talented on paper that we have these teams that bring the best out of each other. And this team just brings the worst out of each other for whatever reason. I have no answer for it. I was going to have a little segment.

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Like coming out of the gate, you would think you have between 52 and 56 points per game from two guys. You should be in every game at that point, no matter how bad your defense is, whatever you're missing. You should at least be hanging around. They're down 10, 15, 20. Nobody seems to care. I was going to do a little segment later, but we can do it now called, I just don't have the answer.

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Plus, you can put Brunson on the side for some of these plays, and he's a 45% three-point shooter. You don't need to... I just think when you're in a playoff series, if you're running offense the way the Knicks run offense, I think over the course of two weeks, it gets easier and easier to at least get used to it.

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And the more wrinkles they have, I think they're a really interesting offensive team, and I know some of the stats are already pretty good for them. My last one. How hurt do you actually think LeBron is?

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The time the injury happened at the end of the Celtic game and they had already lost. I just... The stuff in the state championship game, like him jumping around on the sidelines. By the way, smart for him to rest up and get his shit together for the playoff run. But, you know, we were talking about this in these... Or at least the media was in these grave terms. LeBron, I...

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This might be the rest of the year. I think he's fine. And I think the Lakers have to be taken seriously and I'm not going to waver from that point. Like they showed him shooting today. I think he's fine. Would be my takeaway.

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Yeah, I didn't realize until the state championship. I think he's fine. I'm not worried about it. Okay. Okay. One thing I was thinking about with the Cavs, and then we'll take a break.

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I watched the entire game. I'm sure you watched a bunch of it, too. I thought it was a bad loss for Cleveland because I was excited for their streak, and I really wanted them to win because I was like, I love streaks. Once we get over 16, I'm in.

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I didn't bet on them. I just love streaks. And there was some stuff in there that I just am filing away in the back of my head because I think they're really good. I still think they're the favorite in the East, but there's a Hunter shot at the end of the game in the corner, right? Not a lot of huge. I'm going to say DeAndre Hunter hasn't been in a lot of huge games.

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And if I had like a son's friend who was like, what do you think's wrong with this team? And I was like, I honestly don't know. I don't know why it's even worse than it was last year when it was like, oh, it's Vogel's fault. Maybe it's Nurkic's fault. Well, they traded Nurkic. It's still bad. I don't understand it.

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The game started to feel a little big, right? The streak's on the line. They go to him. He's wide open the corner. It hits the side of the backboard. And I was like, oh, okay. Are you saying Hunter lacks seasoning? Just saying. You can go into these playoffs and be 68 and 14, but they have a bunch of guys who have never really been in these massive games. Like Mitchell has.

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Strews has been in a couple of big games. But there's some guys that have been. And sometimes when the series or the game isn't working out the way you think it is, and all of a sudden you're in the corner and you're like, oh, shit, I got to make this. You haven't been in that spot. I don't know. I just filed it away. Do you file anything away from that game?

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You're just like, hey, we didn't hit threes. That's why we lost. Let's move on.

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It's definitely one of the higher percentages of two seconds left on the shot clock, fall away 20 footer with the hand in your face. They've got to be in the top three.

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Well, I did a lot of Cleveland work this morning thinking that they were going to win this game and we would lead with the streak. Here's the one thing I can't figure out.

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I get it. Guys, teams miss stuff all the time. The question for me is what's your thing if you're going to win the title? right? I went back, I went through the last 10 years, like last year, the Celtics, what was their thing? Ultimately, if you just strip it down, you could describe it in five words. It was like Tatum and Brown are really good together. They're durable. They play well.

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Usually one of them is having a good game. It's a really special combo. And if we had to, and there's a bunch of other reasons, but let's start there. That's why they won the title. 23, Jokic and Murray. Really special combo. Just that they hit a level. They were the best. And that's why they won. 22, Curry, our guy. 21, Giannis. 20, LeBron and AD.

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And Poole. 19, Kawhi. Just went to a great level. And they had a really fun team. And he was the center force.

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I hope not. Did not. Did not take a lot of time at all. Curry, KD, and Klay for two years. LeBron and Kyrie. Curry and Klay. That's the last 10 years. The question for me was, I think about could Cleveland win the title? How do we talk about it after and be like, what was their thing? And I think it would have to be the guards.

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I think we would have to say, like you could mention all the other things, but you say, man, their guards were fucking awesome. That's why they won the title. I don't really know what else it would be other than like them shooting 50% from three for the last two rounds, something like that. So I'm just trying to compare them. The last team that you really left the season going, man,

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I can't believe they got to that level was the 14 Spurs, right? And they had, going back, they had really good players, but they just like, they meshed and they were awesome. And it made sense.

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Yeah, and they were driven. They had the hunger. So with Cleveland, I think it would be the guards. Unless, what do you think? Would it be something different? If we're talking about them in July, oh yeah, Cleveland, of course they won. They had this, this, this. Like, what would be the first thing?

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Yeah, I would still shade it toward Cleveland in that matchup because of the hunger piece.

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Yeah, if my life depended on it, I would pick Cleveland, but I don't feel great about it, but I think they're a safer bet. I was going through some of the stats with them, and you know, first of all, they're 56 and 11, which is nuts. Like they still have a chance to get to 69, but they're first in offense. They're shooting 39% from three.

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They have nobody over 31.3 minutes a game, which is incredible. They've been really fanatical about keeping everybody fresh for the playoffs, which I think is really going to help them. Hunter's at 51% from three for them. But heading into today, Strews is 42 and Jerome is 44. So their role guys are showing up.

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And then two 15-game winning streaks in the same season. Fifth time it ever happened. It doesn't mean you're going to win the title, but the 71 Bucks and the 2000 Lakers did it. 97 Jazz did it. They made the finals. 07 Suns did it. That was the Robert Horry year. They were the second best team in the league that year.

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And then you look at some of the historical stuff with teams that won 68 games, four titles, two failures. 67 wins, nine titles, four failures, 66 wins, 12 titles, five failures. The odds are like if they win 66, 67, 68 games, the odds are they're going to make the finals. We talked about this last year with the Celtics. Like you can pick them apart, say they shoot too many threes.

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The math is saying they're going to make the finals and they're going to beat Dallas. And you can either trust the math or not. With Cleveland, there's a lot of math in their favor if they can finish the season strong. But they have a tough schedule. They still have like eight road games left. So they might drop. They might end up in the mid-60s.

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I personally think, Russillo, OKC to me makes much more sense of us talking about them in July and be like, holy shit. SGA, nobody could guard them all year. That team could go big. They could go small. They were deep. They were incredible defensively. The coach is great. They had home court the whole time. It makes sense to me why they won the title.

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And then you have a Celtics team that I think has been really careful about the regular season because the last season. You know, though, and one of the things I think that's been so great, I love the Tatum season, like just a plus I positive reviews, five stars. I'm going to, I'll do the tip, like whatever.

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Potentially might be, could be, could be breaking out the Cabernet for him. The Tatum to 25 Tatum Cabernet. Um, they've done five times this year. Where they're just like, Jason, we're just going to play a bunch of those. Like, Bailey Shireman's going to play today. Is that cool? You think you can give us like 35 minutes?

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Just the two of your teammates at all times are going to be guys who are usually in the G League. but we're going to try to beat Brooklyn anyway. Are you cool? We'll just run, just don't get hurt, but also play really hard. And he's just, he does everything. I think his defense has been great. Like, and Giannis has really come on too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think that's a good argument, Giannis or Tatum for the number three for MVP. But the top four that we have this year, I think has been pretty awesome. And then Mitchell, I think is a good fit choice too.

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You're properly rating it. So there's another piece that I can't shake is the hunger piece of it. The Celtics having already won and Cleveland never winning. There was John Krasinski, who writes for The Athletic, covers Timberwolves, different one. But he led a thing. He wrote about Minnesota and Denver this week.

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No, no, we both like him. This was his first two paragraphs. He said, long after the Timberwolves had vanquished the defending champion Denver Nuggets on their home floor in Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals last season, a Nuggets official emerged from the locker room and started walking down the hallway of the parking lot. They remind me a lot of us last year, he said, shaking his head.

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They just wanted it so damn bad we couldn't match it. I think that's like the number one thing to think about when we go in the playoffs. I think OKC and Cleveland are going to be maniacs because they've never won. And if you're the Celtics, you won last year. There's this extra gear you have to have when you're going back to back. You have to be able to match

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whatever that other team is bringing, that's like all I want. Like, it's like the Eagles chief Superbowl, same thing. The Eagles just wanted it more than the chiefs. Now they were better. There are all these other reasons, but ultimately that was a way bigger game for them because the chiefs had already won. And I just keep thinking about that with these playoffs.

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I was thinking about it Wednesday night, watching OKC play the Celtics. The Celtics kept trying to match the intensity of the game. And OKC just was like hungrier. I think SGA is like, he's fucking on a mission. Have you seen that guy play a bad game? Does that guy ever suck anymore? He's unbelievable.

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I think it's really hard to win back-to-back. That's my biggest fear with the Celts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Let's take one more break. I mentioned that I wanted to do this, and then I remembered about 40 minutes after I said we're going to do it. Best third guy in the league. Should this be an award? It'd make more sense than the clutch guy award. So I'll just give you by record in descending order, best third guys. Darius Garland, Chet Holmgren.

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Derek White, Van Vliet, Desmond Bain, Austin Reeves, Aaron Gordon, Draymond, Pick a Nick, Brooke Lopez, Nas Reed, Zubach, Miles Turner. Who is the best third guy in the league? Because I think you can make a real case it's Holmgren. I can't believe how good Holmgren is. If he's healthy, I can't believe how good he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Let me add him. Just put him on there. Great. Did he get in a fight in the last four days? Did he have to be separated from anybody?

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Well, you know what else is funny when they're on on the same night where there's an awesome game? Like if you watch them after you watch like Celtics Thunder the other night and how hard everybody's going, every possession and the switching and the scrambling and the intensity and the aggressiveness. And then you watch the Suns like basically playing like it's an all-star game.

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It's next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new White Lotus recap on the Prestige TV podcast, me, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson. Episode five is an all-time, all-time banger, and we are breaking it down. As soon as you finish that episode, you can listen to our recap. Also, I have new rewatchables coming on Monday. It's kind of

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I don't think he gets enough credit in the scariest guys of the century ranking, Stephen Adams. Because what did he have, like 17 brothers and sisters? He was clearly in 7 million fights. He's from New Zealand. I don't feel like there's any NBA altercation on a basketball court that he would even break a drop of sweat to be involved in.

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He could have been in there, test melee, smiling as people were climbing over the roads.

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The New Zealand people, because they're mostly with us, but it'll be a new story right now in New Zealand that we're even talking about him. They love all Steven Adams conversations.

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You know, there was an article on ESPN on Friday. It wasn't a now they tell us because the season's still going, but there was some breadcrumbs strewn throughout, including some good Ishbia quotes. There was a hilarious Bradley Beal quote about, I've got my no trade clause, I'm doing great. But reading that piece, they're basically saying, look, Ishbia's gone bookers and untouchable.

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Hmm. No, I, no, I have a couple of thoughts. Um, I think when you're throwing out somebody out of a game, you have to factor in what their reputation is day-to-day, week-to-week as a player. And Cade's not a guy who gets technicals and gets thrown out of games. You can't throw him out. I don't think they would throw LeBron out in that situation.

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There's just certain guys you got to... Whereas if it was Draymond, I get it.

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Just like Cade, I thought that was an awesome game. You're in Detroit. You've got a great crowd. It was a good battle. I'm not throwing guys out of that game if I don't have to. It was a bad job by the refs. I thought Bickerstaff should have been mad. But I think you're right. I think you hit on something with the SGA thing. He is trying to wrestle a fucking shark in a boat.

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He did a couple moves last night. There was there. Well, first of all, it seemed like he might have shoved off, but the guy went like 10 feet backwards. But he had another move where he dusted somebody on that yo-yo move he does and then just went right in the lane. And there was a center waiting for him. And he went into the guy, held it, whipped it left handed. It went in.

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He's doing shit night to night now. That's at the highest possible offensive level that I've seen from a guard. And it's night after night after night now.

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Do you think he – Go ahead. Is he the number one guy that when they talk about breaking ankles – If somebody actually broke their ankles defending somebody, he would be like a minus 800 favorite on Fanville to be the ankle breaker guy. Guys fly backwards. Guys try to stop. He just like completely embarrasses. And he's embarrassing good defenders. Like pick a guard in the league.

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Like he does that yo-yo thing and it just works. I think he's peak of his powers right now.

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I think you would have. I think if you were a head coach, I think you would have been a great every once in a while press conference, killing the ref, sticking up for your guy's guy. Wouldn't happen often, maybe twice a year. But I think I could have totally seen you doing the press conference last night like JB did. Bang the table at the end, storm out. I feel like you could have done it.

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I would have been more like the quiet, sarcastic. I can't believe you threw me out for that just because I made 14 barbs in a row under my breath. You would have done like a Stan Van Gundy routine. I'm getting thrown out for that just because I called you a dumb motherfucker under my breath 10 times as you ran by and then you finally got mad and threw me out. What? What did I do?

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That's the one guy, like, you know, he's basically saying we're trading Durant in the summer, which everybody knows. I don't think anybody should be an untouchable on this team. The way the last three years have gone, if I was, if the two of us were in a room, we were the conciliators for Ishby, and he's like, well, we can't trade Booker. I would be like, we can't? Really?

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I was trying to think of, as you were talking, I was trying to think of that coach-referee relationship or player-referee relationship. And it's the thing, I think, as both you and I got to know people in the league better and just get under the hood a little bit. And it's so fascinating which guys hate other guys. Certain coaches have certain refs that they just detest.

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Like everybody's available in my opinion on that team. I know they're going to build around Booker, but from what we've seen from him, the last couple of playoffs and then this season and last season too, I just don't feel like there's an untouchable guy in this team. If the Rockets were going to overpay for Booker, I would just think about it at least. I wouldn't just say blanket. No way.

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And the ref knows they're detested. And then it's like, oh, Tuesday night, we got this guy. Fucking, fucking hate this guy. You know, and this is a huge part of the league. Or, you know, it came out a little bit with the Chris Paul, Scott Foster stuff. But every player has one or two people that they just see and like, ah, this fucking guy. And I wonder, like, OKC, part of their magic.

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SGA doesn't talk any shit at all, right? He just does his job, keeps his head down. Dagnall, I think, argues with the refs probably the least of any coach.

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When he gets hot, though, he can get really hot. But it's only a handful of times. Missoula will get after it every once in a while, and especially if you've sat close to the Celtic game. He's doing a lot of stealth. He's riding refs left and right. Some of the better coaches are really good at not having it seem like on TV, like they're riding the guys, because that's what the refs hate.

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They don't want to be embarrassed. They don't want to look like they're taking shit. So sometimes you'll see like, Kerr's really good at it. He'll walk over to a ref and it'll seem like he's talking to the guy in a really conciliatory way, but he learned this from Popovich. He'll come over and be like, hey, you realize you fucking suck, right? Like that was the worst fucking call ever.

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There's a smile on your face and it seems like they're just talking, but he's like laying into the guy. But he also can become unhinged. Like Kerr will have an unhinged moment.

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The former players, Redick does this now too. Redick will just lose it every once in a while.

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Well, Bill Kennedy was the guy that he... Him and Bill Kennedy, they literally hated each other.

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But if you're the ref, you're reffing the Clippers and you're like, fuck. Exactly. I hate these guys.

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Stevens used to do that. Stevens was always the most mellow and just had that kind of calm demeanor. But you know another thing they... So Tatum... I think Tatum's one of the... Like Tatum is just a great guy. He's a good role model.

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He's just a good guy. But Tatum does like three, four terrible, stupid things with refs that he can't stop doing. He does the wave... You do that, you don't get the call and you're walking back and you do the fuck you wave.

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It's not even like you might as well go toward them and like shake your fist or something. But he does this passive aggressive stuff, which I think they hate even more. Like, fuck you. I'm teeing you up for that. Fuck you. How dare you wave at me? But the best one I ever saw going to games over the years was dealing with the refs was Jordan. But I think there was so much star power with Jordan.

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I almost feel like this helps the goat case. If you're talking goats, the way the refs were just in his pocket. And I'm not talking about him getting calls. I'm talking about like they're in the dead spots when people are shooting free throws before the game. These guys treated him like, you know, it was like Beyonce walking on stage and they were like in the Bayhive.

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You know, they just it was especially the last three years after he came back. He just had a command of the fans, the refs, the room. He got every call he wanted. If he was upset at a call, he could say whatever he wanted. If he was yelling at a ref, the ref was like kind of bummed out. It's like, oh, Michael Jordan doesn't like doesn't like how I'm reffing today.

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Like you can actually see them like they would just kind of lose it. He was the best. Kobe had a little of that in the second part of the Kobe too.

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Right. And it was like, it was over. That's it. That's done. Yeah. He's a good one. Uh, second best third banana. That was a good tangent for us. Chet Holmgren one. Would you have Derek white to Garland Bain Reeves? Who's your third banana?

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Bridges is in there. Draymond. Nas Reid has been playing great. I don't know.

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So Garland number two? So you go Holmgren one, Garland two, or Garland one, Holmgren two?

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That's the whole point of this exercise. Had him right there too. Had him seven. And then Nas, the way Nas is playing was the other one.

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a in ,,,,,, And Russell had 16.2. So in the playoffs, which is that's 160 games, not a small sample size. you got six more points a game from Wilt and Russell was better than everything else. But Russell was also like the greatest teammate of all time and the best defensive player of all time. I don't know what we're arguing.

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It's like we're not going to tank. We have too much pride to do that. So we're going plan B and not everybody thinks that they should do plan B, but that's what we're going to do. It's like, OK, cool. You have no draft picks. You have no way to improve your roster. You're not going to be able to sign free agents. You're over the apron.

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And then the other thing was the, the supporting cast, which I debunked pretty quickly. Like, yeah, Russell first five years of Wilt's career, Russell had better teammates than the next, the rest of Wilt's career. He always had the best teammates, you know, so that you can't say that one either. Um,

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Yeah, he's weirdly become underrated, partially because there's no stats that capture some of the stuff he did. Like, we didn't keep track of Blackstone 1973. So you're just like, yeah, Russell had a lot of blocks that game. And that's how we talked about him in like game seven of a conference finals, whereas like kept track of points and rebounds. So yeah, I think he's underrated.

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kind of moved into sports movie month. So we're doing Days of Thunder. Tom Cruise, his 16th rewatchables movie. So you can check that out. That's on video on Spotify as well, or you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. We have the Sonic Boom podcast that we did in 2019 for Luminary. It's now available on the Ringer Podcast Network.

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He's fallen out of the GOAT conversation, even though he won the most. Everyone in his era always talked about how incredible he was and there was no greater winner, all that stuff. So obviously there's some hybrid, but to me, he's still in the top four all time.

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You're not going to get nearly what you think you're going to get for Durant. You're just not. He's going to be in year 19 next year, and he's not as impactful two ways as he used to be. And if anything, I would think he's a pretty big injury risk at the age he's at. I just don't think people are ponying up big packages for him. Who's doing it? We go through teams right now.

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It would be, it would basically be what Jonathan Isaac was doing last year in the magic and those 20 minute stretches multiplied by five, but he would have been doing it for eight straight months every year. Wow. We were like, Holy shit. Russell had 17 blocks.

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Yeah, I mean, that's certainly how we felt working on it. Because I just think people forget. And it's like, ah, there was only eight teams back then. Yeah. I remember during the last dance, you and I were doing those pods and we were so stunned how little everybody knew about the Jordan Bulls. It was one of the first times I really felt old.

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Remember there was that Rodman episode and everybody was like, Rodman, what was up with that guy? And we were like, what? He's just assuming everybody knew Rodman was this crazy up and down roller coaster ride that they were able to just kind of corral in time for these three straight post seasons.

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And basically people like my son just had no idea, which of course they wouldn't, but you just kind of forget because we know all the beats. So that was one of the things we were trying to do with the Celtic series anyway.

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for, for me, I didn't want to fuck it up. I mean, we had so many good people behind it, but I felt like I would have been so mad if somebody else did it and didn't get stuff right. So for me, it's like, just let's not fuck this up. We got one chance. Let's try to make the best version of this. And you know, I, I think what was the one like last, like last dance, I think did a great job.

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of here's this piece of unless you were his teammate right well well that's true but i mean the stuff that people got mad about was pretty honest and that was all that stuff that was in the books too it was just a lot of people to know about it you know and isaiah was mad about how he was portrayed in it which i get i understand but that was right what you think was going to happen

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But what is it, though? Let's say Miami strikes out an off-free agent. It's like, all right, let's go for KD. What's the offer? Like two years ago. Yeah, but it's the kind of team like that. It's like a semi-desperate team. There's other teams that I think with what you've seen from Durant the last couple of years with how unhappy his teams are. And I should mention, I like Kevin Durant.

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Yeah, that was Isaiah's reputation. That's why he got left off the dream team. He was a pretty polarizing guy when he played. So I think when you're doing these things, you have a responsibility to tell the history, be as fair as possible, weigh the agendas of the different people who are doing interviews for it.

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Because as the years pass, it becomes super easy to tweak stuff however way you want to make yourself look better. And these are documents. If you're doing them correctly, they're documents.

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I remember it came out that, or maybe I'd mentioned that I was writing my basketball book in the late 2000s. I think I probably told you this story, but I'll say it again. Um, and I went to a Celtic game during the KG season and some guy came up to me. He was an older guy. It was like my dad's age. And he was like, Hey, it was like at halftime games. Like, Hey, you're writing that basketball book.

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I saw, saw you writing a basketball book. And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, you better get Russell, right? Russell was the best. you don't understand. Russell was the best. I was going to those games. Russell was the best. Just make sure your book covers that. He walked away. I was like, all right, like little stuff like that matters.

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Like this guy was like, just went out of his way to tell me that for 12 seconds. Went and got a beer.

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He's been on a lot of unhappy teams now in the 2020s. I would be scared if I had a young team. Like, let's bring in this guy as the widely leadership vet. Like, can you do that?

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The crazy thing with Wilt was how many people, players, and coaches who either played with him or against him or coached with him or against him. just murdered him. And I don't know whether that was the era or if he was that frustrating, but people just had no problems talking about how he didn't want the ball in the clutch. He's a pain in the ass.

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I mean, he did get traded twice during the prime of his career, which is usually a red flag. Anyway, Celtic City, third episode, the all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron, a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, the most advanced tech of any Audi ever, experience technology that puts you center stage

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with a panoramic digital stage, plus an optional screen for front seat passengers, perfect for watching the latest sports documentary. The Q6 e-tron, not just a new EV, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at outofusa.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. Speaking of books, John Feinstein passed away.

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Um, and he wrote one of the great sports books of all time, season on the brink, which, um, I think breaks of the game is the best sports book ever. Oh, I'll fight that one probably to the death. Cause I don't think anyone's going to top it. And then there's four or five, six books after that, that have to be mentioned. And season on the brink would be one of the first ones for me.

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I remember reading it on an airplane. Um, and the airplane could have crashed and I would have been like, hold on, hold on. I'm on page 68. Like I just, I don't think you can overstate how little information we had in the eighties and to have some reporter just go behind the scenes with Bobby Knight.

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It was this mythical figure and just capture everything, how insane the guy was, how he dealt with the players and, and the story of that season. And, uh, You know, I just, it was such a memorable experience. I probably read that book five, six times over the course of my life. So after you read a book like that, you know, like the rest is gravy legacy wise.

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And during a week like this, he wrote a bunch of books, but that book was an all timer. I feel like it changed the way people approach sports books after that. And, uh, and it's a hall of famer for me, Rosillo.

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Yeah, sports books were in a weird spot because they used to be like those autobiographies that were written by the player, but they obviously weren't written by them. And when they made a splash, it was usually like when Spark Aloud did the Bronx Zoo and was shitting on Reggie Jackson in it and they excerpted it in Sport Magazine. It was like, oh my God, he said that about Reggie?

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And that's kind of where we were. There was some good... or autobiographies like Kareem. Kareem had a decent one. Wilt had a really good one. Bill Russell had two good ones. But for the most part, there wasn't books like this. Halberstam breaks into the game when he spent like a year just immersed in the NBA. It didn't hit like this season on the brink did because of the Knight stuff.

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Because Knight got mad was the difference. The way Knight reacted to the book became part of the story. And Knight was... I don't know, the first in the 70s, 80s, 90s, one of the three or four biggest coaches, period. I don't even know how to describe them now. We don't have coaches like that anymore. Like you talked about Dan Hurley before. Nate was like 100 times bigger than Dan Hurley. Totally.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, that book, that Red book was written, I think, three different times by three different authors. It was like stories about Red. I read all of them. I enjoyed them. That book came out in 86. Another really interesting thing happened with it. Then they had the Steve Alford, Keith Smart year after the book.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I didn't have like a favorite college basketball team after the BC gambling scandal. I was kind of a free agent. And that book made me like the Indiana, just kind of like, oh, I know those guys. And when that run happened and then they beat DC and Syracuse, you know, and one of the worst no timeouts of all time. Another one that's forgotten.

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Go watch that game on YouTube, young people listening to this. Keith Smart hits a shot with like three seconds left and Syracuse just completely botches. I don't know what they're trying to do. Anyway, it was so interesting watching that run with the background of this book and how vivid it was and all the characters and Offred and everybody else. It's a really great one.

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It's worth, it's worth, it's not that long. I think it's totally worth rereading. And I'm going to read it at some point over the next six weeks because everybody talking about it got me fired up. And we talked about what Russell would be like now.

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Can you imagine taking 1986 Bobby Knight and just dropping him into college sports in 2025 in the NIL era and social media and people getting triggered? I think he would get fired within five minutes. Um...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's a good character in Breaks of the Game, too. There's some good Bobby Knight stuff in there. Before we go, give us three minutes. What do we need to know about March Madness?

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You should have come back with something from like some sort of German history thing just to fuck with her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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dumb asses I remember my friend Ben who I could talk about this story now because he's not with the person anymore but the Patriots game when they lost to the Ravens in the playoffs in like 2011 when Ray Rice just first play yeah no it might have been the Jets game what was the one where Ridley got knocked out it was the Jets the rematch after they killed them yeah it's the Jets game um

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He came over halftime with his girlfriend, who I don't even think he'd been dating that long. But I was like, you should come over and watch the game with me and my dad. And it was like Pats fans. And then he showed up with the girlfriend. The moment I saw her, I knew the Pats were going to lose. I was just like, the vibe's off in the room. I feel like we're controlling this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But the Jets just went on a run right after they showed up. So I make fun of them about it now, but I thought it was a bad sign.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think you guys are going to be closer than right now. You know, can I say one St. John's thing? Because I've been, and we've probably even talked about this. I've never understood why NBA teams don't add presses if they have depth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, I feel like on the side of OKC was just like, hey, with our seven through 12 guys, let's just have a press that we can do for three minutes and the team will never know when it's coming. It would be one of the great weapons we could have in basketball, especially against certain teams that don't necessarily have that. Patino tried it as like an actual regular season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're going to do this for long stretches. I'm just saying a little three minute thing like, oh. That Austin Reeves is going to be the point guard right now? Let's press this guy for three minutes with the press that we've been working on. I just think there's something there that would work if you had the athletes. But I like that when they do it in college because it just seems so terrifying.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't even try to fake it during the championship weekend anymore. I'm just like, oh, I'll jump in when the tournament starts. I've lost. It's another thing I've just given up as I've gotten older because I'm choosing to watch OKC in Detroit. for some reason game 68. Yeah, but I was excited. He's already locked up on one seed and for some reason I'm picking that over like a college hoops game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Uh, we're still out. You're doing two pods this week. We'll be back on this pod next week. Um, we were going to do a gimmick for today, but then we farted around with all this other stuff, which is my fault. So we'll do the gimmick next week that I was really excited about, but I thought would have been really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Somehow we still killed two hours, uh, without doing the giant gimmick that I thought we were going to do. Um, we'll back that pack next week. And then, uh, thanks to Gahal and Kyle and Sruti as well for producing new rewatchables coming Monday night. We did days of thunder. We're still a cruise Kidman. Oh, no kidding. Maybe sort of. Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's really good. We're a little critical of cruise. Not going to say he's on autopilot in it, but it's, it's, he's done better. It's still great. I mean, he's still, he still puts up 25, seven and eight, but you know, it's not like you won't be telling your grandkids about cold trickle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, it's harder. It's harder. Harder. Yeah, it's great. We broke it down. Anyway, that's tomorrow. And then Prestige TV, The White Lotus, episode five, which is a capital B banger, which you got to watch tonight. Capital B pulsating in bold banger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Adolescence on Netflix is good to check that out. Anyway, we're so good to see you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Yeah, it's less the market for the players and more the desperation of the suitors. You know, the Warriors are staring at that Jimmy Butler trade for two months. And it got to the point with Steph, like, Steph's going to be 37. We're going to waste another year. He's already breaking down. We have to do something. And you talk yourself into it.

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And also the price dropped, which I think really helped them as well. It got to the point where it was basically a first Wiggins and that was it.

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And you can get it on our Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. If you remember, the Sonics were one of the most iconic franchises in the NBA. They won the 1979 title. And then all of a sudden, they packed their bags for Oklahoma. And Sonic Boom tells the story of basketball and politics, wealth and power. revealing new truths about the NBA's greatest heist.

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But the Butler thing is a really... To me, like this ties into it. If they had gotten Duran instead of Butler, do you think the Warriors would be playing this well? Because I would argue one of the things that I think, and I've watched a ton of Golden State. Like I am just so fired up about the Steph comeback. Steph's now making like a second team all NBA run.

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Like it's kind of stealth, but I think by the time we get to the end of the season, I think he's in the top 10 conversation. But I think what's made this run special for these guys is that Butler doesn't care what his stats are. Everybody on that team is sacrificing. Butler will have games where he doesn't even really shoot. Like he's doing like the 2015 Iguodala. I'll just play some defense.

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I'm over here if you need me. Oh, you need me? I'll score right now on my guy. But for the most part, he's completely bought in. I don't know if Durant at this point in his career would be able to do all the glue guy stuff that Butler's doing. I don't know if he's that kind of player anymore. To me, he's like, we need him because like Orlando. That's a weird fit, right? They have Paolo and Franz.

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It makes no sense. But Orlando needs somebody who can be like, I can score a bucket right now. I got this. Clear out. It's a team like that that needs scoring. I don't know if it was Golden State necessarily.

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There's some swagger shit with him too that I think is really important. That team has an arrogance to it again, and I mean that in a good way. That team's got its thing back. And I think he brought it back. Draymond started playing a little bit better and started carrying himself a little more.

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And the combo of them... I remember the Pistons when they lost Mahorn in the expansion draft after they won the first title. Devastating. Well, they had that whole bad boy thing. He was such a big part of that. And then he left... And it was kind of like, oh, now it's just Lambert and Isaiah and Rodman. And then Rodman had to kind of step up and fill in that bad boy thing.

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But the combo of Draymond and Butler, I think, and Moody, you can see it's infected him in a good way too. Like he's carrying himself now. And I just think that team has real playoff toughness. I'm really watching them now as a team. I don't think they can beat OKC necessarily, but they love playing OKC. They've had great games against them. I think they'll be happy to go toe-to-toe with them.

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It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't foul out on your chance to win with America's number one sportsbook. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Plus enjoy our new NBA player prop pages, your one-stop shop for player props that include FanDuel's exclusive performance trends.

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Well, it's a pastime to complain about all-star weekend. It's been 20 years of it. This was especially bad though, because it was so, so over the top overproduced. I just want to see basketball. I don't need to see, I don't need games to stop for a half hour. We don't need to honor the TNT guys forever. We don't need all these different, we don't need like a slam dunk.

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Let's remember Vince Carter in 2001, whatever that was. And we got to do that for 10 minutes. And then he comes out and, has to talk to the crowd. I don't know who that's for. It's not for you and I, but it's also not for teenagers. It's not for eight-year-olds. I honestly don't know. People just want to see three-pointers and dunks and a good game. Just go back to that.

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We are going to do Minnesota, Detroit, and Golden State to make the playoffs. Parlay, plus 160 are the current odds. FanDuel is going to boost this for us because they're our friends. They're going to add a 30% ringer profit boost token on all to make the playoffs and to make the play-in futures. So you can take that little Minnesota, Detroit, Golden State thing, which I love.

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That was one of the most famous all-star games ever. It was 1977, the year after the merger and Dr. J's first NBA all-star game. And that was when he, I can't remember if he dunked on Kareem or Bill Walton. It was one of them. And it was one of his most famous dunks, but he like Tomahawk threw it down and he was just awesome in the game in general. It really meant something.

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And it was cool to have all these guys and one game. And that, that faded out by the time Jordan retired the first time.

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To me, there's two issues. One is the competitiveness and two is the style. And I think you can pick, you can fix both. And I'm going to have a fix for you that I'm going to throw.

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Right after this break. All right, Van, it's time. We're fixing the all-star game. And this is the best I've ever felt about a fix.

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Slam dunk. And then the first All-Star game. And then Sunday, three-pointer in the second All-Star game. I'm going to explain. We need the all-star week and have coherence again. It needs to be East versus West.

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We also need stakes. And the whole thing about, well, home court advantage for the finals should go to which conference wins. You can't really do that when you have all these guys who could give a shit about, like, Trae Young's not, just wait, I have a fix. Trae Young's not going to care if the East wins because he's not going to be in the finals, you know?

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So if you make home court the prize, you go to a 40 minute game, go FIBA rules. So it moves faster and feels different. And you have eight man teams from the East and the West, right? So we pick, we pick 24 all-stars total, but only 16 of them play in the big game on Sunday with the home court advantage at stakes. Here's the catch. Only players from top five seeds can be in the all-star game.

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So everyone who's in the Sunday game is actually going to care about home court advantage. So I have it seven on each side plus an eighth person who's a commissioner pick. So eight versus, but we start everything at 7 p.m. We have the three-pointer, three-point contest, first round of it, first half of the game, three-point contest at halftime, and then the second half of the game.

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And here's what the teams would be. So we would have, Um, so the West, these are all top five seeds. Okay. Jokic, Jaron Jackson, LeBron, SGA, and Harden as the starters. Jalen Williams and Shingun coming off the bench and Curry as your exemption pick. So it's eight. East, Tatum, Towns, Giannis, Brunson, Mitchell, Mobley, and Jalen Brown. And then the exemption pick would be Cade Cunningham.

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It's basically going to come down to Golden State, and I believe in Golden State. I'm with you, Draymond. One of the rare times I'm with Draymond. So you can bet that plus 208 and it's going to be available basically from when you hear this podcast all the way until the Lakers Hornets game on Wednesday night. Fando with a ringer future specials tab that you can find really easily.

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And we're just fucking going for it. Whoever wins gets home court advantage. Everybody who's in that game is actually going to care.

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Because this is like, we might get a game seven at home if we win this. Certainly. So then you move to the other thing, the Saturday game. You take the remaining all-stars. There's eight. Wemby, Siakam, Trae Young, Garland, Dame, Anthony Edwards, AD, and Hero. And you have them play the eight best future guys. Castle, the Thompsons, the first, second-year guys. They play those guys.

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$2 million prize, $250K per person if you win. 8v8, same thing, 40-minute games. And you have the slam dunk after it.

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So that's Saturday game, slam dunk. That's Saturday. Sunday is three point. And then this home court advantage finals game with all the top five, all the best players in the league with actual stakes.

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I have the eight best Rising Stars against the eight remaining All-Stars who weren't top five seeds. So then we would have to change how we pick the All-Star game a little bit. So we'd have to have at least seven from the top five seeds to be in this game.

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Then guess what? You don't get to fucking play in the all-star game anymore. That's the other thing with this. That's my next wrinkle. Oh, the game's not good enough for you. Don't fucking come next year. You're not eligible. That's it. Adam Silver, the enabler. Let's start hitting people with a ruler.

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LeBron, you're playing on Saturday night or next year. He's not going to want to play. Okay, or next year, you're not in the game. This is it. Once you diss us with this weekend, you're out. You don't get to play for home court advantage after that. Let's put real pressure on these dudes. It's like this is an honor and a privilege to be in this game.

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How much leverage do you feel like the league has to do that? I'm asking, seriously. Well, this is an Adam Silver question because Stern would have been able to do it. Adam wants to be everybody's buddy. That's the difference. Yeah. So again, I'm going to read you the teams. Okay, go for it. East.

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Tatum, Towns, Giannis, Brunson, Mitchell, Mobley, Jalen Brown, and then Cade Cunningham is the exemption pick. Versus Jokic, Jaron Jackson, LeBron, SGA, Harden, Jalen Williams, and Shingun. Curry is the pick. 8v8. 40 minute games, three subs. That's it. Everyone's playing. We're fucking going home court advantage for the finals at stake. I'm watching that.

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It's going to include that parlay and some other eligible selection. So claim the PBT in the carousel, apply it to my booster, other futures bets. that you like. All right. We're going to bring in Van Lathan in one second. Pearl Jam's coming up.

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Victor still a privilege to be here. Go whoop on all these future stars. And by the way, next year, get a top five seed. So you can be in the Sunday game, right? Because then it would lead to some top five seed jockeying. It's like, oh, shit, there's a week to go until they pick the all-star. We got to get in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You've grabbed a carrot, which is I play for a top five team. So I am in our biggest profile game. Here's the other thing I forgot to mention. This is what they lose with the stupid, oh, guys from different teams. And you have Jalen Brunson playing against Towns. I like when teammates are on an all-star team together. Like this team I laid out, Tatum and Brown get to play together.

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Mobley and Mitchell get to play together. And then Brunson and Towns gets to play together. And that's like an advantage in a game like this, right? You have SGA and Jalen Williams get to play together.

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Yeah, and it's like, hey, it's crunch time, man. We're the two seed. This could be like a game seven in the finals. But everybody who'd be in that game, including LeBron on the Lakers, has at least a puncher's chance to play in the finals. And then you go down to the runner-up dudes. Wemby, sorry. Like, you're not a top five seed yet. You don't get to be in the Sunday game. Here's the thing.

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I would. I think they have to be that. But do you think it's that important? It's not like you're taking money from these dudes. You're just saying like, look, man, you didn't give a shit about this weekend. So we don't want to have you back. Yeah. It's a privilege to be here. You're representing the league. We're trying to build new fans. We're trying.

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I don't know if you knew this, but during the SNL 50, the music show on Friday night, Eddie Vedder came out and he sang Tom Petty, The Waiting, which was great. And then launched into Corduroy, which is the theme for this podcast. Thank you, Eddie. Here's Pearl Jam. All right, I made Van Lathan come over. We're going to talk about NBA All-Star Weekend, your new favorite sport, hockey.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Because the other thing with this, if I did that Sunday thing, I would start that at seven o'clock. Right? I want kids to watch it. I want kids to be up at 10 o'clock.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I want kids to watch it. Like the way they started last night, you had kids, it was like almost 11 o'clock at night and there's some stupid thing and they're playing to 40.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I can't tell because I know they make a lot of money from it. It's a corporate event. That's what they do. I mean, if it were up to me, it would be two nights. That's it. I think it's too many nights. I think this break is... Like right now, there's no sports. We're taping this on a Monday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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If this hockey thing wasn't happening, there'd be nothing happening right now other than college basketball and people put down mock drafts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Spring training's coming back. I saw the new Red Sox double play combo. I got a little excited about it. We got Bregman. No, I think they need to... Some sort of juice or really seriously think about not doing it anymore. Those would be my two options at this point. Because here's the thing, it's bad for the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It's bad to have a bad weekend where every type of fan you have is like, that sucked, I didn't like it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, and then you have Draymond, too, on the announcing team just killing it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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So two things. One, he was right. I give him credit for saying it. Two, you don't want somebody who's on TV when it's this thing you're trying to push and so do your fans just shitting on it, which I think is a real problem for them because football doesn't let football people do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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When the football guys are out there, everything is very like, let's go to so-and-so who talked to Pat Mahomes and it's like this glowy, glossy light set and Mahomes says nothing for three minutes. They throw it back and Gronk's talking about what a great guy he is, and it's just how they do football. But I don't know. I kind of like it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I don't want to see critical shit when I'm about to watch a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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You would go if it was a good event. You would go if it was like East versus West with finals home court at stake and people actually giving a shit. Like I've been at all-star games when people gave a shit. And maybe it was just for a fourth quarter, and it's fucking cool. It was one of my favorite things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I mean, the real week to do it is that dead week between conference championship games and Super Bowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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where they could maybe do it then. But that's also a good week for basketball because that's the one week people kind of drift toward watching games night after night after night. The question to me is like, do they care? And they claim they do. It also feels like who's deciding this? Because whoever decided the structure of this last weekend, I don't understand it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It's not like an entertainment person. It's not somebody who can look at basketball objectively. So who is it? Is it like the owners? I wonder who's spearheading this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And then 20 years ago, it started to shift. And then they would have a couple good ones. But people forget the bad ones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I remember leaving the stadium for a couple of those being like, never again, never going again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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So I'm saying is. Dwight Howard. But Dwight Howard, that was great stuff, though. Was it? Yeah. You weren't into it? I don't like watching centers dunk in the dunk contest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Have I told you my nobody should be allowed to use props in the dunk contest rule? I feel like I'm going to hear it now. Well, just like, what the fuck is a car doing on the court? And also, we've already seen it. Like, come on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I think that's about it. But I think the human has to be facing you like they're a defender. Right. Make it look at least a little like basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I either want real stars or just find me the best dunkers, three-point shooters, whatever. I think they made a huge mistake not putting a couple of WNBA players in the three-point contest, too. I just think people like the WNBA. Like, Caitlyn should have been in the three-point contest. Just period.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And I would have had an Eskew, like I would have had at least two WNBA players and I would have made the three point contest longer. And I think it would have been more interesting. Like they own the WNBA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It's not like it would be like this crazy, you know, it's basically like what NBC used to do in the nineties where they'd be like, now the friend stars are going on ER, you know, and they do those crossover shows. Yeah. Just fucking bring Caitlyn. Why can't she be at All-Star Weekend? I'm into it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

22.197

Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I know where you're going. Right. Counter. Counter. Are you turning the channel? That's where we have to go back to with all this stuff is are you turning the channel? It's like Andre Jackson from the Bucks is dunking. I'm pretty sure I can go get a tea right now and maybe come back for Mac McClung trying to jump over at Kia.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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But if it's like three point contest and Tyler Hero just went and now here comes Caitlin Clark. I'm fucking watching. I'm not turning the channel for that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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This is why I'm telling Adam Silver's got to dress up like a dominatrix and make these motherfuckers play hard again. Seriously. I don't think it's that dire because I think if you have stakes and you have stars, you can still win with a basketball sporting event. And here to bring a full circle to the hockey, we just watched all these Canadian USA dudes really give a shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It wasn't just the three fights. That game was really, that was like a game seven. It was physical. Like McAvoy had that awesome check on McDavid. Like nobody hits McDavid like that. They were fantastic. They really cared. So you can't tell me that these guys in the NBA, you can't pull that out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, I would really care if the Celtics had a chance to get home court in the finals because they won this All-Star game. Certainly. Now I'm watching that with Celtics friends. What are you doing to make it interesting for them? For the players. Got to be money. Home court matters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Home court matters for the top five seeds. That's a real thing. And then for everybody else, money. Throw money at it. Throw some money at it. It worked for NBA Cup. They threw money at NBA Cup and people, the guys that played kind of gave a shit about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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In an exhibition that meant nothing, that nobody even knew what it was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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But it had the problem that we're trying to fix with this. You have guys in the game who don't care because they're not going to make the World Series. Right. So what do they care about, you know, where a Game 7 of the World Series is? In this case, if you had all the top five seeds... They're going to care. Let's take one more break and we'll get to ref beats. Okay, cool. Kendrick versus Drake.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Day 280. I don't know. It's like the Iranian hostage crisis. Day 310. Still going. Kendrick's having like, this is like driven Kendrick to like A++ levels. He's just dominating. Coming off Super Bowl show. Drake still seems like he's interested in continuing the beef. Yeah. He's like, keeps coming out of his corner. The trainer's like, no, no, no. I'm going to throw the towels.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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One more round, one more round. Is this the last rap beef ever for you? No, no. The last huge one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And the people in Montreal care. Did you hear how quiet it got the last five minutes of that game? Yep. They were super quiet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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He's like the crazy guy in the street who's just yelling outside somebody's window.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, the reason I asked why is this going to be the last big one is because Drake lost it so decidedly. I wonder if it becomes like NBA All-Star Weekend where it becomes not worth it. The risk reward thing is almost too great because Drake would be this casual that everyone looked back at. Other people think he's just going to go away for four months, come back and be fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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The internet in full bloom we've never had for one of these, the way we have the internet and the shape it's in in 2025.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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No-holds-barred. Yeah. No-hold-barred internet in every respect. Right. And you can go as personal as you want. You can do AI stuff now. There's all these different ways you can make the other side look bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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My son Ben Simmons, not the Clippers Ben Simmons, he says it's over. Drake's dead. Nobody cares. That's his 17-year-old L.A. take.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Greatest, greatest, one of the greatest boxing photos ever. Hagler like this with his hands up and in the back you can see Hearns being like carried back to his corner. Yeah. Fucking classic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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That was the hardest fight for me. Cause Sugar Ray was my guy, but Hager was basically a Boston team. So I picked Sugar Ray. Cause Sugar Ray was my favorite from like the 76 Olympics on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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There's other people who are like passionately convinced Hagler won and they get really mad if you bring it up. I just think he was sloppy and wasn't landing and he was off balance the whole fight. I didn't think he fought a good fight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, we're taping this before all the Monday games. The Thursday finals is going to be in Boston, USA against somebody, hopefully Canada, because I can't wait to see USA versus Canada in Boston. It'll be awesome. But that's not why you're here. You're here for a few reasons. We're going to try to fix NBA All-Star Weekend and decide whether it could even be fixed. Is it a sunk cost?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Oh, sound off is important because the crowd was really behind Leonard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Hagler wasn't the same after the Mugabe fight. He had a lot of boxing miles on him at that point. Wasn't the same going into the Mugabe fight either. Early 80s Hagler against that version of Leonard, he knocks him out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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He planned out. He would steal, like, the last 20 seconds of rounds. Like, he really figured out how to win a scorecard against Marvin Aguilar. Anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah, but what do you do after you've decidedly lost the biggest rap beef at least in the last 10 years, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It's almost like arguing about different eras of basketball. Well, but the only reason why I say it is because Biggie Tupac was like, the whole art form was still evolving as that was happening, you know, and it was so tied into like this incredibly influential decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And here we're, we're already set. Music is music is what it is. Everybody's figured out their versions about it. So it's like, it's almost amazing that it got to this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, the other way to help your argument is the best song that came out of this whole beef becomes one of the best songs of the decade. Yeah. At least most famous, most influential, will be most discussed 20 years from now. And people are like, the 2020s, what were the big songs? It'll be one of the first ones mentioned. All the other rap beef songs, none of them hit the heights that this did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I mean, this is basically... I'm not going to say Michael Jackson thriller territory, but like that one level below.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It's like, all right, it's halftime at Chargers Niners. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It's a tough one. I don't know how Drake bounces back from it. It's also, there's a talent issue too. As successful and great as Drake's, some of his stuff has been, Kendrick's just levitating at a slightly different level. Whether you, how much you like his music, whatever, like he's the best artist that the genre has produced in the last 12 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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You think Drake, because Kendrick's short. I think Drake really missed the, I think like his disresponse could have just been like an entire short song.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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But he didn't really go after it. I think that's like his one move left and it'll probably be clumsy and not work well. He should have sampled short people. Just a whole short song. Just like, just mocking Kendrick for being short. It's like his only move left now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, Kendrick's going on tour. Going on tour. And this will just keep going and going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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All right, so you're Drake's Tom Hagen. You're his conciliar. He hires you for a week. What are your two pieces of advice for Drake?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, how about this? Maybe he was. They just didn't give him the chance. They just decided he wasn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Cheers is like this. And yet Seinfeld lives on and Friends lives on. But then like Family Ties didn't. So you just kind of never know when it's going to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

3654

He said it's done. He's like, nobody cares about Drake anymore. Ben Simmons quote, my 17 year old son who knows everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I like your idea of him attacking different parts of the country correctly. Almost like he's running for an election. He's like, all right, where's Kendrick week? I can get him in the South. Can I get him in the Northeast? Like just start picking different pockets culminating in the Superbowl show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah, but it's almost like wrestling. I always feel like pop artists, different musicians, different genres, you got like an 8 to 12 year shelf life. Yeah. And then you got to start figuring out next acts. Like you think about even like somebody like Hulk Hogan, right? Comes in, hits big in the 84 range.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And by the time we get to like when he turned in WCW, yeah, that was like 11, 12 year mark because it was like his character had run its course the way he was doing it. He's got to flip it. Now I'm going to darken my beard and become Hollywood Hogan. Think about how many musicians have been able to even... Hit musicians, big hits, have been able to last longer than 10 years. It's not a lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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By the way, another one is funny actors, like comedians. Like comedians in movies churning out funny stuff that we care about. It's like 8 to 10 years. But those comedians... Then they have to audible. Then they start. You make a drama. Now all of a sudden you're on like a streamer show. Like you got to start.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think it's really tough to stay relevant in music for that long because eventually the new kids that are listening to it are going to determine who's hot. And they don't want to root for like, they don't want to like their dad's music.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And if you have your Kanye playlist, maybe roll the windows up as you're jamming along to it right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're not cranking it at a July 4th party. Yeah, it's all of the lights. Hey, I got seven Kanye songs in a row here for everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's the thing. That's why you roll the windows up. Roll them up. Van Lathan, good to see you. We're doing rewatchables. Van's going to be on rewatchables on Monday and then Higher Learning and Ringiverse as well. Thank you. All right. We couldn't let SNL 50 go by without an appearance from our friend Jim Miller, who has been on here many times. He wrote the oral history of SNL.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He is an even bigger SNL student than I think I am, which I don't even know how that's possible. But we just had a three and a half hour Sunday night show last night that featured almost everybody ever who's been involved with the show who's still alive. What was your biggest takeaway from last night?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think one of the coolest Sandler, I thought kind of, I don't know if anyone wins a three and a half hour SNL episode with that many people in it, but Sandler's thing was great. And it was when you saw him, it was like, is this going to be funny? Is it going to be poignant? It's going to be both, but he really nailed it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then for me, the highlight was just seeing Eddie Murphy and Will Ferrell on a sketch together. Cause I think those to me are the goats. Those are the two best people in the history of the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, there's no question. And not, not only that, but I think he was the only person who was probably overqualified to be in the show. Like, Hey, he ascended out of it. It was like, he was like moonlighting on the, on the show almost by the end where I don't, I don't know if that phenomenon has ever been recaptured.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, you're right. Yeah, a couple of people have done that, I guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So the big people missing, Hayter, and we don't know why they didn't come, but Hayter and Aykroyd, I think were the two that jumped out to me the hardest. Colin Quinn. Yeah, but I think Hayter would have been involved in multiple sketches because you'd think like, Molly Shannon was in multiple sketches. The way they were using different people and how... how great Hayter was as a glue guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. And then Dana Carvey was the other one that I was surprised by because he's been on the show this year and he had said he was looking forward to being on it. So I'm not sure what happened with that, but I think he would have been involved.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So a lot of it has to do with How being a sports fan has changed from the late 70s to the early 2000s to now, right? When I was a kid, the All-Star Game was amazing because it was like George Gervin, David Thompson, people like that were never on television. So to have like some of my favorite Celtics in a game with people like Walter Davis, it was like I never got to see those guys play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So do you feel like part of it was SNL 40 felt like the original version of this and the 50th is, you know, they're basically rerunning a lot of the stuff they did in SNL 40 with 10 years of newer cast members, only a couple of whom have come even 20% as close to hitting the heights as some of these other people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president-elect states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, we're going to try to fix NBA All-Star Weekend plus hockey? SNL 50? HBO? Lots more next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah. There was some stuff that didn't surprise me. Like you knew Paul Simon was going to lead the show. That was just the way it's going to go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah. But Paul was like, he hosted the second show, which was basically, it turned out to be a Simon and Garfunkel reunion. The sketches were shoved to the side. And I think Lorne was so worried after that first show, what would even be in the second show? He geared it towards Simon and then Simon became... you know, this guy that's been on over and over and over again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And now, you know, it's pretty striking how old he looked and how old McCartney looked. And you'd be like, that makes sense because this show's been on for 50 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It really mattered. That peaked in 87. Best all-star game we've ever had. You remember that, right? Rolando Blackman made the free throws with time expired to send it to overtime. I have no recollection.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah, and it was basically a musical show with a couple of sketches in it. That second episode thing, I've thought about that a lot because when you're creating a show, especially if it's a drama, you're spending a year plus on the pilot, right? And you're getting notes from all these people and you're going back and then finally you cast it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And you're casting these people who have never played the characters before. And it could be a year long process. You make it. And now all of a sudden you have to make eight more episodes, nine more episodes. And you're doing that as fast as it took to do the entire process for the pilot. So it is something that I always think about when I watch new shows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah, and it probably wasn't until the prior episode that the show really knew where it was going and what it was, which was the 11th episode of the first season, right? There was a couple other good ones until then, but about midway through that season, the show became the show, but they ran the pot. They ran the first episode on a Saturday night in the 1130 spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I guarantee if you watched it, you'd have a great time. Okay, cool. Goes into overtime. Tom Chambers becomes James Worthy during the game. Magic's just feeding him. Bird's in it. Jordan's in it. Everybody's in it. It's amazing. And I think the last good all-star game was 2001. Because I did a running diary of the 03 All-Star game, which was Jordan's last one. It went into overtime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And it's, it's like Carlin's does three different monologues. The Muppets are on there. Like that, that shows all over the place. They have no idea what it is yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah, and the amount of people that watch the show as it was happening in the 70s versus how it's consumed now, which says so much to do about the choices we have now and just how we consume entertainment. Like in 1978, if you didn't see the show live, it wasn't on again until they ran the reruns in the summer. That was it. You missed it. You just heard word of mouth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Oh my God, they had the sketch last night. Now it's like you can miss the show. And if there's something amazing in it, there's a big moment. You just watch it the next day on YouTube.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah. The surprise of I'm watching this. I don't know what's going to happen. That's just shifted into something completely different. But what's weird is the show, at least from an audience standpoint in 2025 is still big. I think it's like probably the biggest non-sports property that exists.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And if you just look at the basketball reference, it's like, oh, that must have been a good game. It wasn't. 01 was the last one. I think what's changed. So I remember I got league pass in 2000 because I got a direct TV dish. I got to see all these guys constantly. Social media comes in. The internet comes in. And it's just not special in the same way to see all these guys on a court.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, we'll see how long that lasts. Some stuff from the show that jumped out to me. So Meryl Streep, who'd never been on the show, never hosted. And how many times do you think they asked her?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Weird that she never did it. She seems pretty fun. And she lives in New York City or she lives in Connecticut, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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That makes more sense to me. Because of dyslexia and the cue cards? No, because he's Tom Cruise. He's weird. I don't know what to make of Tom Cruise. Going any direction with Tom Cruise, I don't know. He's a big movie star. He's a big movie star. He's more likely to jump a motorcycle over some mountain than he would be to host a live sketch show where anything could happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Oh, I think he would definitely say the latter. So he never did it. Meryl Streep never did it. And then the other one who never did it was Jack Nicholson, who was partying with all these people in the 70s, especially. You know, he's in the Belushi books like he's early and often. So, by the way, so is De Niro, who was there last night to De Niro finally broke and hosted.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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But I think Nicholson and Streep are the two biggest stars that never hosted the show. Right. Two most famous actors other than Cruise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, he did the Joe Pesci show. Yeah, that was the best one. When Jim Brewer was... Jim Brewer, probably his best thing when he was doing the Pesci things. So anyway, I love seeing Meryl Streep with Kate McKinnon, even though that Alien Encounter sketch, which is great, but it's the same sketch every time. They're just rerunning all the beats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I know, but that's when you know... The Meryl Streep ad was fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And she's just trying to make everybody else laugh. So we had that. We had Black Jeopardy with Eddie Murphy playing Tracy Morgan next to Tracy Morgan, which was, that was the first time I really laughed in the first, I don't know, 30 minutes where I was like, oh my God, they're doing this. I mean, it was super exciting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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No, you didn't need anything else with Eddie. Yeah, there's no question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Eddie was one of the big winners last night. They tried the Lawrence Welk thing with Scarlett Johansson and Kim Kardashian, Gasteyer, Kristen Wiig. That's the same sketch every time. The Q&A from the audience was captivating, especially with the nice TV, nice widescreen, because every time they cut to somebody in the audience...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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You could watch, you could see everybody who was in like a specific section. I wasn't even really listening to the Q&A. I was like, wait a second. Oh, oh, there's that. And there's that person. And I almost feel like that's, they intentionally do that, right? So we could just see who's there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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So they have, that's problem number one. Is there anything you want to add to that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Really smart way to get a bunch of people involved in the show. I got to say the most surprising person, I don't know why Kevin Costner was there because he's never hosted the show. It just felt like they needed a star. And he seems like he's pretty available in general, like he was at UFC last month. But Letterman being there was shocking to me. That was somebody that's never hosted the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And I never felt like I had a real connection to it in any way, but maybe he did and I'm missing something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I was surprised by that. I was surprised Bill Murray ranked the weekend update people and started with Colin Quintent, who wasn't there. That just felt like a direct shot. But that was, it actually felt like old school Bill Murray, like his pace and his timing was really good, I thought.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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So we had Mulaney's New York Tribute, which was like this big giant movie that moves through the through the eras of New York that I actually thought was was really well written and interesting. I'm not positive it 100 percent worked, but I liked it. They ran back. Don't look back in anger. One of the great pieces of content that was ever produced.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And from start to finish, they didn't just run a minute of it. They actually know which I thought mattered.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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No question. I was watching with my wife, and my wife didn't totally understand why they... She's not a big SNL student.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Mine was more illegal because I lived in an apartment. I wasn't supposed to have a DirecTV dish. And I had to lie and pretend I owned the house to get DirecTV. Because it was literally illegal to have it if you just rented.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, she was like, why did they... why'd they run that? That was weird. And I was like, well, here's the backstory. Like they ran that Belushi lives in the, and he was actually the one that died first.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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So we had the stagehand. We had the in-memoriam thing I thought was probably my favorite part of the show. when they did the In Memoriam of all the times they've crossed the line, I'm like, are they gonna show Uncle Roy? They gotta show Uncle Roy. And then they, Uncle Roy, the most indefensible sketch probably in the history of the show, but it was the 70s and shit happens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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The lecherous babysitter trying to creep on Gilda Radner. But they went through all of it and I loved it because it's like, you know what? Comedy changes. The definition of what's funny and what isn't funny changes. It's not, you can't go back retroactively and litigate it. This was stuff that ran. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And then Debbie Downer, which I think has belatedly become one of the most famous sketches in the history of the show. It was funny when it happened, but I think as the years have passed, it's one of the go-to ones people mention.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I would have, if they had asked me, I would have had Neil Diamond Storytellers with James Brown and just brought Eddie and Will together and just had them do. I just think that would have gotten the biggest wow from me out of basically anything they could have done if they had just done those two together. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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But that doesn't help the Lawrence Welk sketch. I mean, Lawrence Welk isn't in there. That's the thing. If you're going to do Lawrence Welk, I would have rather, yeah, anyway, what were you going to say?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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So there's some Lawrence stuff with this. You know, there's five years where he's not on the show. Right. And Ebersole is running the show and that's been fraught. Yeah, Gene and Gene Dominion initially, she gets fired, Ebersole takes over. You've written about this a ton. It's been talked about a ton. It's always been a little icy with the two of them, but credit dating back to 75.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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It was notable to me that Eddie was really the only person from that five-year run that was prominently involved in anything. Like there was no Piscopo at all. Julie Lee Dreyfuss was in the Q&A and that's it. it was a show that just kind of pretended those five years didn't, Billy Crystal wasn't anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Martin Short was in it, but Martin Short has become kind of an honorary host slash cast member along the lines of Steve Martin. But he was a big part of that season 10 cast. But for the most part, he pretends that doesn't happen those five years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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The cast after, Carvey, not there. Hartman, not with us, sadly. Same with Jan Hooks. And Myers was really the only one. They went to Levitt's. pretty briefly, but the show was a little geared toward those last, basically last 30 years. The other notable thing to me, the last 10 years of cast members, Pete Davidson, Bo Nyang, they got attention.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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That was MJ's last game. He wasn't good in it. It went into overtime. It wasn't a great game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Marcelo got in on one of those sketches because I think out of anyone on the new cast, he seems to be the one they think they might have hit, might have struck oil on a little bit. But other than that, that show was not a big win for the current cast, which I think was different from SNL 40 when the current cast was a little more involved.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, he became a weekend update guy, you know, and it wasn't like he was, he was never like, let's build all the sketches around him. Like he would with Will Ferrell, somebody like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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And a couple of movies too. So the Lorne piece of this, I'm assuming there's not going to be an SNL 60 with Lorne Michaels. That would be insane. People always thought... Well, he could show up for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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No, but he's not going to be producing. Last night, he was sitting in an aisle seat like three, four rows up. So he wasn't producing it. He actually seemed like he was an audience member for it. I'm sure he decided every sketch and who was going to be there and who was going to sit where. But it felt like he was a little more detached than he was probably.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Were you surprised A, Chevy Chase not featured in anything? Was that because of physical health or something else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Interesting. Well, he certainly has burned some bridges over the years, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I think it's safe to say. Yeah. So that one was weird. And then Conan O'Brien. Not involved last night. Is that still going to the when he took the Tonight Show and didn't didn't include Lorne and his version of Tonight Show, which people have always said that was one of the reasons Leno was able to kind of double cross him and try to get the show back because he wasn't protected by Lorne.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I'm not talking about Conan being petty. I'm talking about, is there still some Lauren pettiness with that whole thing? Because I had always thought there was. No? No. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Do you agree with the David Stern theory with Lorne that I think we've talked about before about the moment you give up this job, you give up this power and influence that's just never going to be the same and that's one of the reasons you keep it for as long as you can. Everyone's returning your call the moment you call them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Yeah, because you can't. Mac McClung was fun, but I don't care about Mac McClung. They might as well pull somebody from the stands. He's not an actual NBA player. He's like in the G League. So at that point, just go get people from YouTube and have them dunk. It's not like Mac McClung's playing NBA minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Before we go, any predictions for the second half of the decade for ESPN? Another place you wrote a book about?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Well, they've had it for the last, I don't know, two plus decades. But how's it going to be different with this contract?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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I feel like it's just getting louder and dumber, the coverage around it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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How do you feel from people working there, happy to be working there standpoint in 2025? Because you always have a good vibe of workplace happiness.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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That's what I'm hearing as well. HBO, another place that you wrote a book about, new series coming out March 3rd, Celtic City, nine parts, Celtic's docuseries. It's really good. But wait, how are you feeling about HBO these days and the Time Warner empire?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I think with the Max app, it just shouldn't be that hard to find the best shows HBO's ever done or the new shows. You feel like you're wading through all these different choices and sometimes somebody's going on there like, I just want to watch Sex and the City.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the best way to fight off any sort of weirdness is to just keep putting out good stuff, which it seems like they had to push a lot of stuff to 2025. And it seems like they are going to have a bunch of good content this year. And the question will be, how can they push it in the Max app the best possible way?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Thanks. It was a lot of time. Anything else you're working on before we go? Got a secret project you want to tell us about now? Just writing, writing, writing. What are you writing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, all right. Mysterious Jim Miller. Thanks for your SNOW50 recap. Good to see you as always. Hey, thanks for having me, man. All right. Thanks to Van Lathan and Jim Miller. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, you can watch clips and videos from this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch this as a video podcast on Spotify. I hope you did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We will be coming back on Thursday, actually, after the big Austin live show. We're going to run that on this feed. It's going to be good. I promise. And don't forget, new rewatch was coming Monday night, Wayne's World. So I will see you on Thursday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We did Wayne's World in honor of SNL. 50, a little bit later, Jim Miller is going to be coming on to talk about the big three plus hour SNL 50 show and our biggest takeaways. Also having Van Lathan on at the beginning of this podcast to talk about NBA All-Star Weekend. And can we save this thing? Is this just the sunk cost at this point? Plus we have some other stuff we're going to cover.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They don't want to end up on Twitter, Reddit, YouTube, you name it, because they got dunked on because they missed the three, anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's turned into the worst. So the game itself has turned into just a terrible pickup game with no defense. Now that's the way it used to be for two and a half, three quarters. But the great thing about the all-star game was it would settle into being an awesome game. And it was always a nice little snapshot of like who mattered that season. You'd see the five guys on each side, East versus West.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You'd have a feel for like, all right, these are the guys now. This is it. Like everybody else got to play. Now who are 10 guys that really matter? once they started messing with the teams and doing like the thing they did this weekend. And I flagged it from the beginning, the rising, the four teams. And one of them is the rising star. That's just stupidity. Yeah, it really is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like, nobody wants to see Zach Eady and Steve and Stefan Castle, all these dudes who I like, but we don't see them on Sunday night. This is like, this is where you promote the biggest stars you have. There's nothing fun about watching these guys who have been barely in the league against like Steph Curry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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LeBron didn't play. LeBron's like, I'm good. Do you think it's weird he just decided not to play five hours before the game? It's incredibly weird. It's just a rare loss for him because there's no way you're not taking a loss and taking shit for that. So why? Everybody wants to see him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, the closest is Castle, who is probably like the third or fourth best Spur. And the Spurs have their five games under .500. He's a rookie. And he was by far the biggest star in the slam dunk contest. That's not good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.com. You know, I didn't do great at my Super Bowl bets. And, you know, I got seduced like a lot of other people with the Pat Mahomes thing. So I'm trying to make it up to you guys. We have the seasons coming back after this all-star break. I basically forced FanDuel to come up with a playoff prop for me. And this is what we did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA All-Star Fix, Kendrick Vs. Drake, and the 'SNL' 50th Anniversary Show With Van Lathan and James Andrew Miller

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Can I give you a dunk idea? I just thought of this as you were talking. What about dunk battle? Okay, what's this? It's just one guy challenges another guy at All-Star Saturday. And it's just one-on-one. So like the Thompson twins are like, dunk contest, two of us, let's go. And the dunk contest is just like four one-on-one just for pride battles. Like Giannis is like, you know what?

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I'm tired of this Wimbinyama shit. Let's go dunk contest right now. You versus me.

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And then the other thing I don't miss is either he throws the pick or a terrible pass. and the defense is celebrating, and then you just know you're going to get the cut to Mac Jones just kind of stomping off.

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I do think some quarterbacks, like Wentz was... really good for Philly and now and then all of a sudden wasn't good right like Jameis was always up and down he never had a moment where he seemed awesome but our guy Josh Freeman was awesome for like a year oh yeah Mack was never awesome but it seemed like he was going to have at least a 10 year career and be Andy Dalton

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Every payment, everywhere, every time. Don't just pay. PayPal. Terms and cash back, limits apply. See PayPal app. The PayPal debit card is issued by the Bancorp Bank. NA pursuant to a license by MasterCard International Incorporated. It may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

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Well, I had Mack. Mack was on my board. But my next guy is Richardson on the Colts. Who... Cannot complete 50% of his passes, which in the NFL in 2024, when you're not allowed to hit the quarterback, you're not allowed to hit receivers over the middle. You just have all of these advantages all over the place to not even be able to complete half your passes. It's a real obstacle for them.

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And sometimes they can overcome it, especially in close games. Like they came back and beat the Pats, but against the, the Broncos, it was so bad that it led to the worst play of the year. Yeah. If there was a worst play every year, like the ESPYs, the worst play, what was that year when Jacoby Myers lateraled backwards and it got intercepted by the Raiders and scored?

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We were like, oh my God, I can't believe it. There was a pick six on a double pass that swung the Colts-Broncos game. And this is a game where Jonathan Taylor dropped the ball before he ran into the end zone to celebrate. And somehow that wasn't the worst play of the game because this was worse. Yeah.

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And it made me sad because Lombardi, who took this UNC job for Belichick, And this is the kind of shit that he used to love. And it definitely would have been a big podcast thing for him. But now we're going to have to carry the slate that Shane Steichen has to call a double pass that gets picked off for a pick six because this quarterback can't complete an eight yard pass.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I had this coming up later, but I'm happy to discuss this now, because... Do people black out when they're about to score? It's the only thing I can think of. Is it like having an orgasm where you just kind of lose perspective? You just like lose the ball. What other explanation could there be? Do you literally like black out?

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Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold, Michelob Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them. So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens. People come over, they want a beer. They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or I've never tried one of these.

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Yeah, just cross the goal line with a ball. Come on. But the thing is, it's not like this happens once every seven years. This happens like four times a year in college and pro football. It feels like it happens once a month, right?

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Because the other thing that always drives us crazy is when the guy reaches to try to score near the goal line and the ball gets batted out or he fumbles it through the end zone. That's more understandable because it's like, all right, the guy's doing everything he can to try to score. This is just, it's a full-fledged blackout. Yeah. All right, so I had Richardson, so you're up.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Yeah, Jameis is like, he's like s'mores. It's amazing to have s'mores once in a while. They're the greatest thing ever. But if you ate it every night, you would just get diabetes and eventually die. Jameis is super fun. Toast Jameis and marshmallows. Let's get a fire. Oh, put it in the...

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I don't know. I guarantee Chang's having a great time listening to this. Jameis has 13 touchdowns and 12 picks this season, which I mentioned because he didn't play for the first half of the season. He's a 30-30 guy. Six games? Right. He's got a lot of work to do to get to 30-30. Well, there's still some good guys left. I...

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I'm going to go Rattler just because the fact that his coach decided at some point this week, let's try Hainer. To me, that's got to be on Rattler's resume. He was actually pretty good in the comeback today against Washington, but I'll go Rattler. All right, you take in... We have three left.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I actually forgot how Sam Howell's unique trait of just standing in the pocket slowly collapsed on him like a building. Right. He did it four times in the game. He never veers out. He's like, ah, ah, ah.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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for like, I don't know, one pass. And I wrote down, cause Stroud was already like kind of struggling in the Houston game. And I wrote down, we got to talk about, could Stroud versus Bryce be an argument again? And then Bryce proceeded at four picks. I might've said that on a podcast.

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I've heard you talked about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious. There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket of Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra, a superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2024, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra, registered light beer, St.

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All right, so I guess I have to take Cooper Rush, and then you could have the last pick and take Wash Rogers if you want.

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That Jets-Jaguars game. I thought was an absolute delight between some of the quarterback moments, some of the game management, and then the Jets, who really all they had to do was kneel, do something, and they just could have kicked a field goal and the Jaguars would have the ball back with 10 seconds left. Instead, the Jets charge it and score. What's that coach's name? Ulbrich?

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The guy who's going to get fired when the season ends. They can't interview Bill Belichick or Mike Vrabel, apparently, even though the season's not over. Um, so they just let, and then all of a sudden it seems like Jacksonville can come back down And it was just one of the dumber things. It kind of got under the radar because it was two terrible teams. Who cares? They're both 3-10.

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But it was just kind of stunning. Nobody does shit like that anymore.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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You hate that there's even a 3% chance that that's true. There's three scenarios. One is the Jets are full of shit and leaking this and it's not true because they hate Belichick and want to make him look bad. Right. The second scenario is that he kicked the tires with them. Yeah.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Not because he wanted to work with them, but because he wanted to gauge interest just in general, what the league interest was in him. And then the third door is that he actually wanted to work for them, which I will never believe for the rest of my life, that Bill Belichick, the guy who hated the Jets...

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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hated them every time the Patriots played them would try to pour it on and embarrass them in games like despise them then got his 12 media gigs this year and lob shots at the Jets the entire season and Woody Johnson like can't stand them and now he wants to work for them I'm just my shit detector is going off left and right he clearly they they all these different people reported it including our guy Schrager so I something happened but I don't I don't

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I don't know what it was. It almost feels like when the Turk and the Godfather is like, hey, let's meet Luca Brasi. We'll try to bring him over. And then all of a sudden, Luca's getting like the fork stabbed in his hand on the table and they're like strangling him. I wonder, like, is Belichick trying to pull a move on the Jets? Interesting. I don't know.

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I just don't think he would ever work for them. I just don't believe it.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Would you take a call from Aaron Rodgers' media company? Hey, we want to hire you, Sal. Yeah, would you work for Aaron Rodgers?

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Aaron, you know, he's misunderstood. I just don't believe it. I honestly think Bill Belichick would rather retire than work for the Jets. I don't believe it. And also, they don't have a quarterback. If he was going to be in the NFL, it would be to try to break the Shula record. He's like, good luck on that team. I just don't believe it.

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So I don't know why they had communications, but I don't think he was like, man, I hope I get this awesome Jets job. They haven't made the playoffs since 2012. Yeah. Well, they should just ask him. He'll tell the truth. I think this worked out great for him. This North Carolina thing. I know I did a pod on it the other day. The more I read and listen here, everybody like this is amazing.

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Louis, Missouri. This podcast is presented by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I have a new Rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did a Mark Wahlberg movie. It's now 10 years old. It's time to do it. The Gambler, a movie that has sucked Chris Ryan and I in, and we had to talk about it. And it's an interesting week to do that since I did not do well on my picks this week.

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He has this. He was already the greatest NFL coach ever. Now he could have this last act in North Carolina and like kick ass for them. It's cool. Everybody loves him there already.

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Yeah. Well, it's also not like Jim Harbaugh going to Michigan and having to like build the whole thing and recruit people. And like college football now, you're just basically buying a team. Right. And you're just trying to outmaneuver people and steal people.

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All right. The big game today was Detroit Buffalo. who are basically the same team, I realized as I was watching. I know Buffalo won, but need the lead, explosive offense, unstoppable, and can't get stops. So it's kind of like whoever is up 10-0, the game's over. And in this game, for whatever reason, Buffalo took the early lead, and then Detroit's playing catch-up after that.

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But it's a recipe that usually does not work to actually win the title. is my point. Like even, I read this stat. Here's a good stat for you. So Buffalo scored 30 plus in eight games in a row. Right? Pretty hard to do. The other teams who have done that, the 2000 Rams, 2007 Pats, 2010 Pats, and the 2013 Broncos. Zero Super Bowls with those teams. Wow.

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So they'd be, you know, they always have a chance to break the trim, but I just feel like we've seen teams like this that are awesome offensively with an awesome player. But if you can't get stops at some point, that's killing you.

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Because it was terrible. Let's do it. It's a terrible decision. It's terrible because if it was a sneak onside kick with the old rules, I'm all for it. I get it. You have to announce it's an onside kick. So it's basically... Yeah, but you say it low.

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What is it? Like 6%, 7%, something like that? I know. So that's one out of every 12 converts. So they're basically saying their defense...

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But you can check that out on Monday night on Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can follow all the videos and clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And you can catch up with us live when we do these Sunday night ones on which we also put on Spotify as video. Yeah, a lot of video stuff going on for us right now.

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can't stop buffalo's offense 11 out of 12 times and that an outside kick is better option than that there's no way you could tip a pass there's all different ways to stop an offense 11 out of 12 eight yards of play it's kind of the same thing right you probably look up and down nobody gets onside kicks we've seen like one recovered the whole year it's like you might as well freaking buy a lottery ticket i mean like the

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If you're just doing percentages, it's no contest. Your defense, they could fumble a shotgun snap. They could drop a pass. All kinds of things could happen. Onside kick, it's basically a miracle. Um, so Detroit, the reason I picked them and lost was I thought they were going to run the ball down Buffalo's throat. And I don't know why I wouldn't have thought that because Buffalo can't stop the run.

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Detroit's great at it. Detroit 15 carries for 48 yards. Yeah. Golf ends up throwing 59 times for four 94 and five TVs. But the team that ran the ball down somebody's throat was Buffalo. and they ran for almost 200 yards, including Allen. They ran for four TDs, 28 first downs, 559 yards. And this is what, you know, I get it.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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If you're picking Buffalo in this game, you're saying Detroit's defense cannot handle Josh Allen, and that turned out to be the correct answer.

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But lost this one. It's so stupid. The season's kind of screwy. It really is. Well, how about this? Buffalo, in the last two weeks, has given up 86 points, over 1,000 yards, and 53 first downs. In the last two weeks. I know the Josh Allen thing is super fun, but this is not how you win Super Bowls. And somebody's going to get them at some point.

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Unless he would have to be superhuman in a way very few guys in the history of the league have just thrown a team in their back, I think, to win with the defense he has. But Detroit's defense is worse. And they lost three more guys today. They lost McNeil. McNeil might be out for the year. So it's never been a better spot, I don't think, for...

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for this Eagles team that everyone gave up on, including me, three months ago.

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And a game that we had thought for weeks and weeks, that would be the game where Detroit rested everybody and Minnesota is going to be favored by 11 and a half. That's not happening. Yeah. Here's the bad news for Detroit. This is another stat I read. No team has ever allowed 45 points in a home game and then won the Super Bowl. Wow. So they did that today.

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But Cousin Sal is going to join in a second. We're going to talk about a rollicking Sunday. Just a bizarre set of early games. Then some late games that seem promising and then were disappointing, but weirdly, weirdly interesting for the season. And a whole bunch of other stuff, including parent corner. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are live.

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That's true. Well, on the positives for Buffalo. There's a mini, he's not good enough to be a Ewing Theory guy, but there's a little mini Ewing Theory case for Stefan Diggs now. They lose him and they're more exciting, more fun. Josh is having the best year ever. They beat Casey and they beat Detroit. That's good. That's good news.

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I think the big thing for me, though, is I would have said eight weeks ago, Who is going to finish the season as the most exciting guy in the league? And Lamar would have been like a minus 1,000 favorite. Like Lamar, we talked about on this pod, like Lamar almost had to be on a multi-view screen because he's so exciting. And Josh kind of leapfrogged him, it feels like, right?

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He's the most exciting guy in the league now. I don't think Lamar even got less exciting, but the shit Josh is doing... It's like watching a senior in high school playing like the freshman team. Yeah. And he's just like, I'm going to fuck around. I'm trying to impress this girl in the stands. I'm just going to do some stuff. Yeah. And just like demolishing them.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Well, the thing with Josh, I was thinking about like the great quarterback seasons. So since we were in college, 1989, only six quarterbacks have won MVP in Super Bowl in the same season unless I miss somebody. Mahomes was the last one in 22. Manning did it in 06. Oh, Manning didn't do it in 06 because Tomlinson won, so he's out. Kurt Warner, Favre, Steve Young in 94, and Montana in 89.

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A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Brady never did it? My guy never had the MVP, but then also won. He won it in 07 and 17, but they didn't win the title those years. But then there's this different title. when somebody has a season like the one he's having that it's just like a memorable season. Like Rogers had that awesome 2011 season, but then the giants beat him in the playoffs. But that whole regular season is incredible.

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Cam had that awesome 2015 season. You know, Brady had that awesome Oh seven season that was like iconic. And then they lost anyway. And I wonder which camp is Alan going to be. And if I had to bet, I would probably bet. he's going to be in that Brady 07 side. Like, incredible, memorable, unbelievable season, but it wasn't good enough to win the Super Bowl.

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I think it's a team that outscores them and gets the lead on them first and makes them play from behind, basically. It's not easy. I think that's how it would have to do. That's how it would have to happen. But the best teams are in the NFC. But yeah, you're right. This could be a year. It would be great. Did you pick them to win or you picked them to make? I picked them to win.

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I picked them to beat the Lions. That'd be amazing for you. Certainly a tone for a lot of sins of predictions you made in August.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That wasn't your fault. But yeah, I mean, the fun thing about Buffalo is that it's just super fun. But, you know, the Jim Kelly teams are also super fun. So at some point, we'll see if this can translate. But the thing that's been so cool about it is just...

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It was like this thing, I remember I talked about it after Bill Walton died when I went to see him and he was talking about Larry Bird and he was talking about this last level when it's like not just the performance but the artistry of the performance and how you resonate with the crowd. It feels like Alan's gone to another level with some of this stuff.

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Like he's just so great to watch on some of these plays. Like my wife was sitting down with me for like a quarter and she's just like, that guy's amazing. Is he the best guy in the league? I'm like, yeah, he actually is. Yeah, good call. But he's just like, he just jumps out of the TV now.

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Well, and, and for anybody who would say, no, he's been like this for a few years. He hasn't because he made turnover. He had a shitload of turnovers last year. He doesn't turn the ball over anymore. His decision-making is just way better this year. Yeah. Haley Steinfeld. Maybe that was it. He's got it all.

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Next game was Philly-Pittsburgh, which I stayed at the craps table one hand too long or one shoot too long with Pittsburgh. They were great to me this year. Pickens not playing. I like the under. The case for them was low scoring game. you know, rock fight 16, 14, 20. But what I didn't surprise was Philly moved the ball on them. Like they had some long ass drives and walk gets hurt at the end.

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Did the ball for 40 minutes. Yeah. Did 26 first downs. They were 10 for 17 on third down. And the case for Pittsburgh in this game was their defense is going to be able to stand up to Philly, and they just didn't. With that said, the rookie fumbles the punt for Philly. Pittsburgh gets the ball. All of a sudden, they're on the three-yard line.

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It is almost 8.30 Pacific time. Sal, this is the first time I've ever done a live podcast right after losing a 13-point tease. Oh, yeah. Because the Packers decided to just throw it late for a touchdown, and then the Seahawks just decided to hand the ball off the last three minutes. This is why you don't do 13-point teases, Sal. This is what I learned today. They're super dumb.

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And then this goofy penalty happens where the guy keeps blocking after the whistle. Right. There's no more devastating penalty than the we're about to score. Oh, 15 yards. Now we're on the 18. It's it's a fucking gut punch. Yeah. So they they squander that. And then Najee fumbles when they're driving again. They have this great drive going and he just fumbles a pitch.

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And it really came down to to those two plays. I didn't feel like they were that far away from them. But Philly played better, obviously.

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I in the back, back, back of my head, I was a little worried about the games today just because of how weird this stretches. We talked about in the ringer Sunday pregame where these teams play today, then Saturday, then Wednesday. There's four times. Right. And it's just I don't neither of us are going to understand just what the mentality is to be ready.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2651.818

But no, you also have to be ready two more times over the next week and a half, basically. So I don't know. They didn't seem like Pittsburgh today. No, for sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2688.075

How would you, what would you call it? He's like the secret MVP. It's like when they don't have George Pickens, they just don't get three explosive plays a game. Right. I do think, I made a mental note watching the games today, like, just for the Super Bowl. you need to be able to run the ball and you need like three explosive plays a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2709.853

And if you can't do that, I think you're like an automatic cross off. Yeah. I mean, it's like they're only, yeah. Eagles, the Eagles can do it. That's, you know, and obviously Buffalo can too. Tampa chargers, which I wisely stayed away from Tampa drops 40 on the chargers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2746.081

Mike Evans had a two-touchdown game, which is a fantasy playoff, so of course he was going to do that. Right. And then Cardinals-Pats, that was another West Lake gamer. Mm-hmm. There might be a mutiny with the Pats fans soon. The coaching is so bad. It's indescribable. I just can't believe it. And then the coach comes after the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2767.059

We have Drake May, third and one, fourth and one, like the key sequence of the game. And they don't sneak with him either time. And another time they had him in the shotgun on fourth and one. It's like this guy's almost 6'6". Like pretty sure we could QB sneak them. I know we can't block, but maybe take them. So they don't, they get stuffed and that flips the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2785.559

And someone asked Mayo about it after. And he's basically like, yeah, I don't know what we were doing. Like it was literally like he just threw the OC under the bus. Then they asked Drake May about it, who seems to be the only person on the team who's devastated after every loss. He's just like crestfallen on the sidelines.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2800.862

And they talked to him after and somebody asked him like, why don't they ever sneak you? And he's like, honestly, I don't know. I'm almost, I'm six, five. Like it's a play that's worked my whole career. I don't know why we don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2844.031

He's unbelievable. For three quarters, they just hand off and have him throw bubble screens and do nothing that he's really great at. And then they'll fall behind by 20. And then all of a sudden it's like, hey, you should throw him down, wing it downfield. And then he's like, perfect 40-yard pass. You should roll out. It's like, oh, he does that. It's like, you just did that the whole game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2865.104

I don't understand why they don't play with tempo. It's super frustrating. We have two good players because Gonzalez completely shut down Harrison.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2872.869

Shut him down. They went to him multiple times. Shut him down. I didn't think it was a great win for the Cardinals because it actually felt like the game was a little closer. It's weird. I think they're the only team with seven wins, right? Or does Seattle have? I think they're the only ones. Seattle is eight. Oh, yeah, you're right. Arizona is the only seven win team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2892.223

But we should talk about that because Seattle loses. And now we have the Rams losing. are in the three spot and Seattle's now out of the playoffs, which we were talking this morning. I have Seattle division, Seattle to make the playoffs, Seattle over like all that's, all that's a mess. Don't play. Um, I thought Seattle was going to be green Bay and was very bullish on Seattle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2916.049

And I've liked green Bay the whole year, but I just, I just thought this was a Seattle week and green Bay finally played the game that I've felt like they could play the whole year. And that of course I had the other side. They were great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2942.418

The first two drives today, he looked like Terrell Davis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2980.796

They kind of wrote me in thinking their defense was good. And then Jacobs really big boyed them, I thought. And they gave up some big plays. They had a couple of bad pass interferences. They just played like shit. It's a Sunday night game at home. You're underdogs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

2993.427

You need the game because the Rams miraculously beat Buffalo and beat the Niners in a five-day span, which the odds of that were probably 7-1. So then they have the Rams sitting there at 8-6, and they can't believe it probably. They're like, A, how are we 8-6? B, how are we leading a division?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3027.006

Yeah, so the Rams, they lost to Miami by eight. They barely beat the Pats. And they lost to Philly by 23. They lost to Philly 37-14 in Week 12. And at that point, they were five and six. With Buffalo and San Francisco looming and Seattle in week 18, Arizona week 17, they beat New Orleans, which was a little closer than it was 21-14. That game was actually kind of close.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3059.426

Beat Buffalo, beat San Francisco. Now they're playing Wash Rogers at the Jets next week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3065.416

And have a legitimate chance now for like 11 wins. It's fucking crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3079.249

Arizona is not good. And it wasn't just the couple of ways the Pats screwed up today. Kyler had his terrible Kyler pass that he does once a game. And he throws it right after we got stuffed on third and one and fourth and one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3093.204

Kyler throws this jump pass and gets drilled as he's throwing it. We intercept it. We're on like their 15th. And they call a roughing the passer. Right. The guy's jumping up in the air to block the pass and then kind of just hits Kyler because he's trying to block it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

311.158

Well, this was my first semi-ass-kicking in a long time. It's not bad, then. Four games I really liked, and I was just dead wrong on three of them. I disagree, though, because I thought the early games were so... Incompetent and awful and poorly played. And there were so many bad QBs and so much weird shit. I actually kind of enjoyed it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3140.008

So the cards are seven and seven. And yet they barely... I know they didn't barely beat the Pats by the score, but I swear the Pats were weirdly in that game. They lose to Seattle twice in three weeks, and then we see Seattle just get the tar kicked out of them tonight. So I'm going to be selling on Arizona.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3173.68

Buffalo home for the Chargers. Kind of fun. I don't know in a million years how the Chargers could keep up with Buffalo points. They could probably play out like the Tampa game today. Yeah. Pittsburgh home for Denver. We didn't talk about that Denver game enough because Denver was super lucky. I'm sure like Knicks was terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3194.429

Knicks had three picks, you know, and we talked about all the Colts stuff. Yeah. But Denver is going to be probably a six seed against Pittsburgh. Yeah. Or Baltimore, hopefully, but maybe Pittsburgh. Right, a Baltimore could pass him. And then Houston, Baltimore would be the 4-5 unless Pittsburgh and Baltimore flip. So Pittsburgh-Denver looks incredibly shaky to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3228.323

And then so what's the maybe you put Lamar on the Sunday, this early Sunday game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3243.214

So the NFC is would be right now Philly versus Washington. Solid Rams versus Green Bay. Excellent. And then Tampa, Minnesota, which I think is a good game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3258.259

And then the interesting one is I think Amazon's getting the Saturday night game, which is usually like the best game. I don't know what that is with those six matchups. It's probably Rams-Green Bay, I would think, in L.A.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3291.211

The Rams have Jets on the road, Arizona and Seattle at home. Seattle is Minnesota at home, Chicago and the Rams on the road.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3316.321

I think I hit everything. We didn't talk about Dan Quinn screwing up that Washington game and screwing up everybody's teases. I guess that was the last thing we didn't hit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

334.69

I guess we should have known. Every TV something stupid was happening. And there were some of the worst quarterback play. I mean, who did we have in the early ones? We had Mack Jones. Mm-hmm. Levis. He got benched. Yep. Jameis, he got benched. Hainer got benched. Rattler, DeVito, Boyle. Bryce Young should have been benched. Cooper Rush, and Zombie Rogers. We're all playing on different TVs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3375.241

So you don't think they could have spiked it in time? Because I actually think they could have spiked it with like a second left. Maybe. He could tackle like nine seconds left. But yeah, it was incredible that the clock, there's literally no reason for the clock to stop. Yeah. But then Quinn, they're up seven with the ball and it looks like they're running out the clock.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3391.467

McLaurin drops the touchdown or it sailed. I forget whose fault that was. I guess Daniel sailed it on him a little. Yeah. And it looked like that was going to be, and now all of a sudden they kick a field goal. God misses it. Now, freaking Spencer Rattler, he's coming back down. And all of a sudden, House is his last sentence.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3423.806

They haven't played a game that's impressed me in like two months. Right. You know, I mean, and you think like they had a couple wins there that they shouldn't have won. They could probably be three wins lighter, right? What's their record now? They're nine and five. They could easily be six and eight. Well, the Hail Mary game. There was that other stupid game. Yeah. And then this game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3459.956

I just feel like the holiday season hasn't officially started until Mahomes has some sort of injury. Is that right? Yeah, he's got to start limping around. That's how he gets ready for the playoffs. It's like how a bear needs to sleep during the winter. Same thing. He needs some sort of limp, and then he's fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3489.788

You don't think Netflix throws him in a plane and gets him to Germany for all kinds of stuff to pump into his ankles?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3512.035

No question. Well, I agree with you because I guessed my Texans game assuming he wasn't going to play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3519.418

Because... I think if it's a choice, you want to just wait. You can't play him in both if he's got a bad wheel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3539.494

We have to play the Chargers who can barely get to 20 points. Guess the lines. We have games Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and then Wednesday. This is an official don't get divorced stretch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3552.875

Especially with the holidays. Yeah, they're really, really trying to fuck with our marriages now. They don't make it easy. Yep.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3583.334

Chargers home for the Denver Broncos. And I made the line Chargers by three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3616.977

You know, speaking of Tampa, that NFC South bet, which is one of the only futures I really truly care about because we made such a big deal about it. Yeah. NFC under 30 wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3630.202

Well, I'll tell you that Tampa win, I didn't love it, but we are right now at 22 wins with three weeks left. And teams play each other, so I feel like I've clinched it. NFC East is at 29 wins. They're seven wins higher. This was one of our big bets before the year. We made FanDuel create this prop. NFC East, more wins than the NFC South, and it was minus 175.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3670.548

Yep. Chiefs-Texans in KC. And neither of us think Mahomes is playing. And I'm going to make Houston the favorite. I'm going to say Houston by one and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3688.857

I wonder how many times the Chiefs have been home dogs. Week 18.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3696.962

He can't play. No way. Andy Reid moved one win closer to Belichick, by the way. Where is he now? He is at... Hold on, let me get it. He is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

370.319

Do you want to do that? Now, I had this for later. Let's do the bad QB draft now. The Week 15 bad QB draft. Of everyone we saw today, and I have a 12-person list. Wow, okay. Who is your worst one today?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3716.867

271 he's 31 away and he's five playoff wins behind him too somehow the NFL yeah NFL will give him the record this year but yeah you've done enough it's fine please catch Belichick please catch Belichick we've decided to tamper with your salary cap space so you have more money to spend okay the other Saturday game Ravens Steelers

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3743.927

which I think I would have had Ravens by two and a half as recently as like three weeks ago. But I got to say Ravens by four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3775.839

Well, tell the audience, what was our bet? It was division champs, Chiefs, Ravens, Bills? Chiefs, Ravens, Bills, Texans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3792.524

It literally was stupid because we're losing. Yeah, it is. It's always stupid. Yeah, I think the Steelers are going to be, even if they have pickings, it's not going to be 100% pickings. but yeah, that's a lot of points to lay in a second time. They've played AFC North Raven Steelers game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3825.558

I don't know. I was texting with the fantasy guys because Craig's a big Steelers fan during that game. And it was like Steelers bingo. It was hitting all the check marks of dumb penalty to pull them out of a touchdown. And TJ Watts hurt. It hit like nine of the check marks. Nodging. Yeah. The stupid fumble. Sunday marquee game. I think it's Eagles-Washington, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3851.873

Isn't that our best Sunday game? We need to go Vikings-Seahawks. You would have said Minnesota-Seattle probably before tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3860.759

Eagles going for 11 in a row. Second time they played. Their games are always weird. And it's in Washington. So I'm going to say Eagles by three and a half. Oh, man. Really? I said five. And you got it exactly. It's three and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3891.488

I think you should be. I think they had a little smoke and mirrors those first six weeks. Daniels has not been the same since he got hurt, whatever week that was. He was like lasers to everybody the first five weeks. Sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3913.965

So I only have two watchable games and part of it is because we have two Saturday games that pulled two good ones out, but there's only two good games on, on, and these aren't even that good. One of them is Vikings at Seattle, which I, that's it for Seattle. I think if they lose and the Vikings are definitely going to be favored. I have the Vikings, uh, by three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3947.91

Sam Howell against the Vikings defense would not make me feel good. No. So then the other one I have for a watchable, you're going to laugh, but Jags Raiders in Vegas. Really? All kinds of draft pick ramifications in this. Not that, I mean, does anyone even care past Sanders? No. People aren't going to care where Hunter gets drafted. Sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3971.249

Will people care where the Boise State running back gets drafted?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

3987.201

Yeah. All right. Jags at Raiders. This is probably the Raiders' last chance. This is a huge game for the Patriots. Because the Patriots aren't going to win again. We need Mac Jones to somehow pull off a win. But I have the Jaguars favored by two in Vegas. So that's what I had. I swear I did. And it's Vegas by one and a half. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4014.947

I do not know who their quarterback is. Is it the Riddler?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4033.292

I might bet this game. Fairly watchables. Bill's Patriots, I think has to be 14. So I'm going to say 14. Yeah, I went 16 and a half. It's 14 and a half. You get that. Five to four, you're up. One thing with the Pats, they have cheap touchdown potential at the end because that's the only time they kind of let May do his thing. They had another interception that wasn't his fault today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4059.134

I don't know if you saw Boutte. Yeah. When he throws it to him. He did the receiver thing where he just flings it up in the air for the safety. That needs a name. That needs to be named after somebody. There had to be some receiver who did that better than anyone. Somebody's keeping track of these stats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4080.747

That guy fucked up and cost you an interception. Lions, Bears, and Chicago... With this Lions defense, I think putting high lines on them at this point is pretty risky. I'm going to say Lions favored by six and a half in Detroit. I mean, in Chicago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4136.861

Well, here's another home dog for us. The Jets. Because they're going to be playing the Rams in Giants Stadium. Yeah. The Jets have been moving the ball a little more the last couple games. Now, granted, it's because of their opposition. But, you know, they're a little. I think Rodgers with the Enigma coming out soon. I think he just looks freer and happier.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4164.448

I'm going to say the Rams by three and a half at the Jets. And this has all the makings of an everybody loses on the Rams bet. I see JJ picking them right now on the Sunday pregame show. Although I shouldn't talk shit because I got killed today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4196.489

Don't blow this. Don't blow this, Rams. Come on. This has all the makings. The Rams... The next couple games, who do they have after this? They have... This is all West, right? NFC West for them after this? Yeah, they're home for Arizona-Seattle. Say, all right, we'll take care of the Jets. And then we got Arizona-Seattle. And then all of a sudden, they're down 10-0.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4219.614

Garrett Wilson had a 90-yard touchdown. And Puka's going in the blue tent. Hopefully he doesn't. I'm not going to win for that. 49ers-Dolphins in Miami. I stared at this one for three minutes. You want another three? 49ers by one was where I landed in Miami. Oh, wow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4247.807

See, that's why I knew I was off in some direction. Man. So mad. So mad. I just want to point out the dolphins aren't good. Maybe shouldn't be favored by two and a half over any decent team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4278.492

What his career winning percentage was. I might have to bring that back. Not a bit anymore. Real shit. Yep. I was asking Lombardi because he came up with DJ Mikey Mack for McDonald's, like Shane Steichen. He reminded me we already came up with Thailand Shane for Shane Steichen. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's playing Madden on Twitch against somebody in Thailand.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4302.633

He's like, I'm going to call a double pass reverse. Oh, no, I got picked off. Reset. Poopfecta, four games. There's some really bad games this week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4319.89

Because remember, we've already done Raiders-Jags, which is a Poopfecta, but I put it in the matchables. Falcons home for the Giants. I have Falcons by nine. What do you have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

433.106

He really is the worst. Well, he's the worst in the sense that he tantalizes you with the potential of something that seems pretty awesome. That too. And then just pulls the rug out from underneath you. Today he had three picks and threw a pass that led his teammate right into an oncoming train, basically. And the game got stopped for 20 minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4358.648

Colts-Titans. Another one I don't really want to watch any minutes of. It's in Indianapolis, and I had the Colts favored by five and a half. That's what I had. It's four and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4377.523

Cardinals at the Panthers. It's another one. Just be careful with this one. My friends, I have Cardinals by three and a half. That's what I had to four. It's four and a half. Vegas on. Man, they're throwing Vegas on getting sacked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4393.259

Two Vegas sons in a row. I don't know if we could do a pre. By the way, Cleveland, Cincinnati is fairly watchable. Jameis is fairly watchable the rest of the way. Yeah, I'll move that up. I'll move that up to the fairly watchable. The Browns are really bad, though. Poor Nick Chubb broke his foot today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

4428.239

You love the Bengals. I don't put bad teams in teases. Sunday night also stinks. Bucks at Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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You would have been making yourself crazy. So good. McCarthy won his job back, though. Is that the Belichick shadow hanging over him now? Well, that's going to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Sunday night, Tampa at Dallas. I have Tampa by four and a half. Hmm. I get this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I might scale it back. Didn't have a great week this week after an unbelievable run. Monday night, Packers, Saints.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I have Packers by 11 and a half. I don't know if it's Saints.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I've been on this bandwagon the whole time and he's been a divisive guy since college and the Dolphins fans are really protective of him. But to me, everything has to be perfect. And every play and situation and the teammates and he's got to throw the ball within two seconds and it's got to be a quick slant. And every once in a while, a receiver is just going to get crushed over the middle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I guess I should have just said that because it's never 11 and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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It just got way out of the Seahawks by 15 and a half plus 15 and a half. Come on. Couldn't hit that. Let's do parent corner. What do you got?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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And then every once in a while, he's just going to throw the ball to the other team and the weather has to be good. And in a dome, he's great. And it's all these excuses. It's like if you hired like a personal chef who is a pizza chef. Yeah. And you were like, but I, you know, I don't want to eat pizza seven days a week. And the guy's like, OK.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I'm telling you now, I'm putting him in seven parlays with NFL teams. Every team I like, I'm just putting Usyk in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Him and Pereira are the two most reliable comeback guys on the planet. I'm just going to keep doing it until one of them loses.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Is there a good undercard too? There's a couple good... Is there on this? I thought there was at least one good fight before it. My guy Bacoli is not fighting until January, though. Yeah, what happened there? He's not even on that great card. I know. Yeah. I know. Anyway. So my daughter's come back from college actually late tonight. And my wife was...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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was ordering all this food to pick up because we need, my son's a weird eater, my daughter's the weirdest eater ever. She wanted to get food and she's like, you know, the maggots coming home. And we realized that we have nicknames for everyone in my family that happen organically based on eating habits.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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So we call Zoe the maggot because she's that one that's like with the slice of pizza, you just look down and there's just like the cheese is gone. Or like there's a piece of sourdough toast and just all the stuff around the crust is just gone. You're like, oh, the maggot must've gotten it. My wife has always been the rat because it'll be like slice of pizza or a bagel on the counter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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And just like a very small, almost imperceptible part of it is missing. And you're like, I thought that was like a bigger pizza slice. And she's just carefully cut like one eighth of it off. So we always call her the rat. Like she rats it up. It's good. And then my son is the raccoon because he like never eats. And then he goes downstairs. Everyone's asleep at like 1130. And.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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just starts you know all of a sudden all this food's gone and you're like oh my god the fucking raccoon got in the kitchen again so then I was like so what's my nickname then and she's like you're just like a bear you just eat a lot and then you sleep And I was like, I feel like that's insulting. I'm just the bear? Yeah, hell yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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And it's not like I'm like a... But I guess that's how it... Because I have like big... You know, I don't eat a lot and then I'll have a big dinner. So she said I'm the bear. You're the bear? I guess I'm the bear. Tell her you want a second opinion. I feel like... Can I be like a panda? Yeah, you have to be a specific bear or something. What's an animal that just kind of basically...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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that snacks during the day once or twice and then has like a big dinner. That's what every animal I am. I don't know who that is. And is the clogger taken? You can't tell you how it's taken. So our fridge is like, you know, my daughter comes home and there's like four different coffee-made creamers because she likes to make these homemade lattes that she drinks two sips of.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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And then like day five, it's like, hey, I made a pizza again. It's like, yeah. Like, what about chicken? Anything like could you eat? Can you make a soup? No, no. I actually whipped up this really good meatball pizza. And at some point he's just serving pizza. And that's to him. He's serving pizza day after day after day in these games. I just think he's a 500 or worse quarterback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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So all of a sudden the fridge has like this thing. My son has all the weird food he eats and it's just like a free-for-all. So anyway, it's good to be back. The Simmons family is back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Stuff's crammed in. There's coffee made on top of like, you know, my son's kelp noodles.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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It's very possible. Did you see Evil Jason Bateman in Carry On yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Well, he was evil in Ozark, right? I said he wasn't on the poster. I didn't know he was in the movie. I started watching it and it was like, there's Jason Bateman. It's like, you didn't tell me Jason Bateman was in this. That feels like it's a big deal. It's definitely him, huh? Maybe he didn't want to know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Yeah, I don't. Can't say when I was there for 30 for 30 that the Jet Sack Exchange was on any of the master list for ideas. Just leave it at that. All right, so what do you got to plug?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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It worked out way better than that because with him at Lombardi as a combo and I don't have a college football team. So now like I actually have a college football team I would genuinely care about. Awesome. I'll bet on their over. I'll put bets in. So I carry even more. I'm going to be all in. I'll wear it. They're going to be good. I was looking at hats on fanatics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I couldn't find the right hat. I got to find the right hat. Because it feels like it's got to be like the light blue with just the logo, but I couldn't find one that I liked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Yeah, we've been going for 80 minutes and you didn't bring this up. So you had the Ravens just straight, straight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I get so worried with those games where you cannot come up with a single incentive for the heavily favored team to even care in the game. Oh, I see. That's what I get worried. Off a bye.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Yeah. I think him going to Vegas or the Giants, I just think is just for us, for people who want content. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Isn't what makes him special that in college he can do both sides, but in the pros, that's completely unrealistic?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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It would seem like the move would be to play him a cornerback and then bring him in for third down and eights. Gadget plays. Special gadget plays. Yeah. Almost using him like the old Percy Harvin kind of model.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Cuz, good job by you. Great to see you as always. Thanks to Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti. And then we didn't have Gahow today, but Richter. John Richter. John Richter. Got rewatchables coming on Monday night. We did The Gambler, ironically, with Mark Wahlberg. Oh, you son of a bitch. That's a good one. And then we'll be back next week. Sal, good job by you. See you later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Well, Chang would say one-day-old Krispy Kreme is one of the most delicious desserts. Oh, he puts it in a pan with the ice cream. He pans it, pan fries it. He's a magician. That's not fair. Yeah. Yeah, there's this place in LA I don't want to name, but it's a donut place. And you walk in and when you go in to buy donuts, you're like, oh, I'll just... Can I get a half dozen donuts? You think...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Do you make the donuts individually? It's like a weird foofy LA thing. I know what you're talking about. Where it's like, no, no, tell us what donut you made and then we're going to make it right and it's going to be like fresh for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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And then you're in the donut shop for 10 minutes and by the time the donut comes out, it's like I could have already put down like two sprinkled donuts by the time I was waiting for this donut. Maybe that's Tua. I don't know. It's called Tua's. It's Tua's of LA. I just want the Dolphin fans to admit deep down they know. Like stop defending this. Just stop.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Like I was big on Mac Jones for that first year when he was a rookie and he made the playoffs and he played in the Pro Bowl. And I was like, this guy's a game manager. He can do it. And he just got worse and worse. And eventually you just have to give up and say, you know what? I was wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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The Bill Simmons. This episode is brought to you by PayPal. Sports fans, I know going to the big games can get expensive, so let's talk strategy. Let's talk how PayPal has changed the playbook. Now you can pay everywhere, online, in-store. either or both with the PayPal debit card. That's right, earn a 5% cash back up to $1,000 every month in the category you choose, like apparel and groceries.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Mac Jones is not a starting QB, which I then thought again today, as I watched him today, Mac Jones, not really a starting QB. Two is not somebody that's going to win three playoff games in a row ever at any point in his career. There's no situation where that's going to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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No, I like it. It's a passionate trap. My daughter's boyfriend, huge Dolphin fan, when we text all the time about Tua, and he vacillates between defending Tua, but then also... getting mad when he has games like he had today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Yeah, I know. My number one is this Hayner person that played for the Saints today who lasted about, I don't know, a half. And then they were like, you know what? Maybe Spencer Rattler is better than you. Like, I don't know how bad Spencer Rattler is that he lost the competition to Hayner, but Hayner was in there for a brief period I don't know, what, an hour and a half against Washington?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Too long. Nothing was happening. And we knew a bunch of people that had Washington in teases, and it just seemed like you were in safe hands with Hainer. Then Rattler comes in and it's worse for Hayner because it's like, oh no, Rattler's in. Uh-oh. So I would have Hayner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Oh my God. Well, it's so funny. Like the first year at Grantland, we did the bad QB draft. We created this whole scoring system. Jacoby wrote a piece about it every week. He did all the scoring. And the premise was like, there's just so many, this is the glory days of bad QBs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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But you would think at some point it would get better and it just hasn't, you know, like three point shooting got better in basketball and in baseball, like pitchers throw faster and you know, there's more strikeouts, like things change. And for whatever reason, quarterback play has not changed in football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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I'm just laughing because I knew who you were going to take.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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He's number two for me. Well, did you see Titans-Bengals today? It was the first game with 10 turnovers and 20 plus penalties since 2006. Wow. 18 years since we've had that kind of incompetence. And you could feel it. If you had multiple TVs and that was one of the games, you could feel the incompetence. So he had three interceptions and a pick six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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as one of the three, which maybe we call the Levis from now on. He would have had more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Yeah, they should have explained to Brian Callahan the full DeLome and how important that is. What was that? Five picks, including a pick six, was the full DeLome. Yeah, go for the record. He's bad, but that's one of those things where we knew he was bad last year. My fault.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Think about it. That's like getting cash back when you're picking up your game day snacks or grabbing a drink with the crew after the big game. I'm talking about real savings, like that energy drink keeps you hyped for the big game cash back. 17th, purchase a merch from your favorite team cash back. Post-game extra large pizza, you order like clockwork. You get the idea.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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No, no. But I'm saying the Titans, they get rid of Rabel. They're bringing this new coach. The GM wins this power struggle because Will Levis is his guy, new coach, and now they need a QB. Congrats. Um, can I have Boyle and DeVito as a combo for my next pick? Sure. A dual entry. Sure. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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You could have, I couldn't at one point they changed QBs and I just couldn't tell the difference on my, cause I had, they were on a TV that had no sound. I had no idea that DeVito even left to the concussion. Impossible to say. DeVito does this after every play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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No, you understood how bad it was because he was rolling out and he was four yards behind the line of scrimmage. Right. And the guys were coming and he was going to do the Zach Wilson where he's just going to chuck it out of bounds. And instead he did like the stutter step out of bounds and then seemed like he talked shit to one of the defensive linemen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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And it was just like, you lost four yards for literally no reason. There was no reason to lose four yards in that play that any of us could think of. But it's funny, like, having watched him as he... I swear he was really solid as a rookie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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It's not even... It's like comparing a Ferrari to, like, a Cherokee.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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now sure it is now no why what was always like an awesome suv that you could go cross country with and the stereo was going to work and right you know we always knew what he was but it was like can you be this awesome game manager and um just kind of not make mistakes and be smart but the stuff that he was doing today it was all stuff he did the last two and a half years for the pats

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Bad QB Draft, Josh Wins Multi-view MVP, Philly’s the NFC Shot Caller, and Guess the Lines with Cousin Sal

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Just the inexplicable sailing it over somebody's head. The terrible red zone stuff. Just missing a wide open guy. The scramble out of bounds for no reason. It is who he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Um, the only thing I can think of is, is anchoring when I had to anchor because it wasn't something, it wasn't something, it was, everybody told me I couldn't do it. So I was like, all right, you know, what were you anchoring? The combine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. Cause then I actually had to like pay attention to all the cues and the directors and all this stuff. I were pretty close to being called absolute losers for comparing anchoring the combine to winning the masters. But I,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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The benefit of all these other sports that we're talking about for the most part, I mean, not so much baseball, but Basketball, once you're out there and the physical part of the game takes over, it's kind of a wake-up. Even if you're nervous, it's those moments where you have time to think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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In football, most people will tell you they don't really feel like they're ready to go until they get absolutely blasted. And then once they get blasted, it's like, okay, let's play some ball here. Yeah, banging bodies probably helps with the nervous energy a little bit. With golf, to sit there and to think... And you have the guy in front of their group screwing up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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So everybody's kind of delayed on 18. So now you have even more time to think. But Rory's great off the tee. You know, it's it's that second shot that we would have thought about a lot differently and would have remembered forever. Now we'll just forget it within a week. Right. Which is great, which is which is good for Rory. But yeah, they're just.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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there's probably, you know, you always wonder like there's, there's like, it's not the G league guy, but if you ask NBA players, like, Hey, was there somebody that you grew up with or somebody who played and be like, you know, this guy was nasty. Like he just gave it to us all the time. And you're like, Oh, what happened to him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Like, Oh, it's coach fucked him, transfer, all these different things. You just wonder how many great golfers there are that can't handle any of this stuff. Like if no one's around and they're just playing another guy, they're just as good as them. But once they're on this kind of,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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platform or, you know, at this level, I just imagine it's a massive separator that we don't even think about compared to the physical skills of these guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, and look, I give Roy a lot of credit for that because... you know, there's just, everything's covered. Right. And this has been for a long time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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And so, you know, there's certain athletes, like I'll just use LeBron, for example, like, I don't know how you could be famous this long and have everybody like you, like we could get into some of the criticism of the personality, but like overall, I mean, come on, it's not, it's not that, you know, like nobody thinks he's a dick. Yeah. 23 years. Right. But he comes up

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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as it is what junior high age awareness and then cover sports illustrated mid-teens and the whole thing and you can see with certain guys they become famous so now i'm not just on lebron i'm talking generally here It's kind of like the high school kid. You see an interview on some recruiting site, and he's like, I'm all about winning. All I care about is winning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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And it's like, you don't even care about it. You probably don't. Maybe some of you might, but you've all watched what is... the highest approval response or explanation of yourself. So a lot of it feels disingenuous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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You know what you're supposed to say. You know, you're younger. You haven't really formed a ton of your own opinions on things. I mean, it's kind of impossible without more life experience to begin with. So it feels like so much of what we've seen over the last few years is rehearsed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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And I'm not sure that I entirely blame athletes, especially a younger generation kind of coming up this way, feeling like there's no escape from any of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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it like I'm constantly everything I do is consumed in some way so yeah I may play it safe or you know I guess it's it's kind of like the Russell Wilson thing where I know exactly once he does the post game he's going to thank the offensive line he's going to he's going out of his way to go over this mental checkbox to just

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Make it seem like he is the most team first dude that you've ever come across your entire life. But then you lose that connection because you already know what's coming. You've heard the same shit for years and years and years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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So there's got to be some kind of peace, especially for somebody like Rory later on or any of these other guys that get a little bit older and you just feel totally comfortable. And it's great if your default is also like a likable personality on top of everything else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Sometimes to his detriment. Did you see what happened the other night with him? Tell me. The crowd was chanting child support when he's at the free throw line and he started laughing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, because I don't think Allen's had bad playoff games. I think Lamar has had worse playoff games, but I think we all feel better about him as a quarterback now. Harden has a long resume of this stuff. And I'll admit, as I was watching it today, I mean, I know we're going to get into this game, but he was so good. And I've even joked, I think...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There have probably been a couple seasons going into where I was like, you'd think he'd just be due to have kind of a baseline. Like, I need your floor to be higher than some of those just disastrous floor games from him. That might be the pick because it would have to be...

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There's some guys that I think of like, look, I just think there's different ways to talk about different players and their failures and their successes. And sometimes we just want to label everyone that's failed a failure and it's all for the exact same reasons. And it's like, okay, well, sometimes Josh Allen's going up against Patrick Mahomes, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, like, are we going to shit on Josh Allen for it? I mean, I guess you will if you want to do that on TV because I've seen it, but... it has to be some of your own undoing as well. And Rory had that. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I think Harden's like, if we want to spend more time on it, I mean, Embiid's probably not at top of mind right now because he's been hurt, but he's probably in the, but it's just not as long. Here's a good example.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, I was, uh, I was still in Vermont and I remember because he was traded and he was teammates with one of my friends and he told this awesome Ray Bork story, which is pretty minor. So I'm not going to build it up too much, but it's too late. But like he had, he was on the team. It's Ray fucking Bork. You know, one of the guys, one of the younger guys was like, Ray, can I get your cell?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Or do you get a number? And he was like, why? So you and your buddies can call me drunk in the middle of the night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But he knew, he was like, it was in a funny way. He wasn't being a jerk about it. That's great. Because, you know, he knew based on the way the guy was asking him, it was like, it was still this hockey God. Yeah. In the locker room with him being like, hey man, you know, like maybe I'll get your number or something. And then he just, he shot it down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Back in the early days. I mean, we were thrilled. We're like, man, we get Esposito for eight minutes. Yeah. Fucking week is made. It's like a crazy Italian guy. But just the second he's on the air with you, it's just on. Yeah. He was great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A little Simmons Masters moment, fresh from Augusta? You got anything for us?

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Well, the only thing that I would counter is just all the stuff that all of us would say about, OK, well, in the playoffs, like, are they a riskier bet than these other teams? But as far as who is playing the best basketball right now, they're the second best team in the West. So I'm not going to argue with you. Last 15 going into today, number one offense, number one defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Kawhi thing is real. March, April, he's playing 36 minutes a game. He's shooting it like crazy. Zoo is one of the most underrated players in the NBA. And on top of everything else, you can just see the difference against some of these teams that may want to go small. Because I still think there's like three or four teams that would prefer to go small. OKC can do whatever they want.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Houston actually wants to play big. Golden State definitely wants to play small. The Lakers definitely want to play small. And so now that you have this first-round matchup 4-5, it's not like they're going to be, you know, I don't know. I mean, some weird stuff would have to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And again, looking at the seeding role thing, so it's not like they're just going to run through all these small teams. But if you want to go small against the Clippers, it's going to be a big problem because Zoo is such a huge part of their offense. They trust him more, and he just beats the hell out of you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, there was the Steve Young one. Remember when he won the Super Bowl and they actually were on the sideline? He was like, get the monkey off my back. And they were pretending they were pulling a monkey off of his back because it was the post-Montana thing. But for golf, I'm not educated enough to run through all of this and tell you it brings back memories of Royal Troon or anything. But I...

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Well, if you want to run your offense through him, you can. You can trust him now to catch depending on where you want to set him up because, you know, we saw, I mean, there's a few different things, obviously, that happened in the length of an overtime game, but early on, it's like, let's make sure we get some touches and let's see how Golden State wants to defend this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And so if you double him, he'll get it right out and he can swing it. So you can trust him to do that. If you let him get deeper off of a drive, like Harden plays it brilliantly. I mean, the best thing Harden's ever done his entire career, I think is off that high ball screen. And then you have the, You have almost basically the big shadowing you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But with Zoo, he doesn't even need to necessarily roll off the high screen. He can be just in the dunker spot. And then that guy comes over to help on the Harden drive because Harden's just so good on that kind of stuff. And then Harden finds these passing lanes. That wraparound that he made going to his left side with his left hand. where it looked like the angle was completely shut off is great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And if you run through the numbers, Golden State was forcing turnovers, really good on-ball defense. They got up 36-25, 10-52 the second quarter. They bring Zubac in, and they close the half 35-22. There's all sorts of numbers that just point to his impact.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I know that I was always frustrated with golf fans because they'd be like, who do you root against? Like, what are you talking about? I root for good golf. I'm like, come on. There's going to be a couple guys you hate. And Bryson, ironically, was kind of that guy. He filled this villain void.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He can turn it on. I don't know that it's ever going to be that again, so I think you're being totally fair about that because you're just talking about a level of intensity. Maybe they don't even want him to play that intensely, but you're right on the Simmons thing. I'm glad you brought up Batum not being available because I was thinking the exact same thing. They go zone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was kind of working, except they weren't corralling the basketball, so they're giving up offensive rebounds, which is one of the problems of the zone anyway, especially if you're small. And Simmons just... Doesn't really... I mean, this isn't breaking news, but... He's not playable. When he has to think about what he's doing, it's over. So he was good enough on tapping a couple balls out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He did have that one assist, but he had two other passes on the right side. where he tried to throw like a no look at one point. Right. And you're just going like, what are you doing right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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To have seen it that way, because I felt the same way. It's like the Clippers have to survive these non-Zubach minutes, especially because Simmons is in there. And the more possessions they probably roll with Simmons, the more it's just guys screaming from the Golden State bench like, Don't even worry about it. Like if he sets a screen two with the ball, if he cuts through, don't worry about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like if he's not going to catch it in the post and then turn around and work us in a mismatch or something, we'll be fine. It's just they really struggle to rebound during that stretch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then once you start to understand how golfers feel about the sport, they don't really want anyone to have that moment. They really don't. I think we enjoy it with the NBA and NFL. You're like, all right, good. I'm glad this guy choked because he's just not my favorite or backs up all my arguments. Right. As we get to Harden's awesome game later today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Look, I'm on your side on this one, so I know it would be better if we were to disagree about the whole thing. I mean, clearly Jaron Jackson has a much better offensive game than Zoo does, but he's asked to do two different things. I mean, his skill set, I wouldn't even compare the two things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If I were with Memphis, I'd be like, hey, Jaron, you know when the other team gets the ball and they're bringing it up the court? Run away from the guy with the ball in his hands. Like, stop.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but Zoo, if you look at the rim protection stuff, like Chet's off the charts. Porzingis' numbers are incredible. But Zoo's are really good there as well. So maybe the downside of Zoo was maybe you can't play five out. Does it impact some of the driving lane stuff that you want to do if you want to have a norm Kawhi Harden group out there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because I still feel like that's my favorite default of having any kind of big that can stretch a defense a little bit. So you have to worry about the shooting. But... To have Harden not have a center, as much as it's going to open up some space, those two guys are just locked in right now. And Kawhi doesn't really need to drive. It's a lot of pull-up stuff with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And even Jimmy Butler, who's changed the story for the Warriors this season. You saw when they got one-on-one, he was too big for Butler. He's too big for him. It's not like Butler's small or a guy you would question his strength or toughness. I'm so glad you brought that up. Kawhi would get him in some spots like 12 feet in, and you're like, he doesn't have a chance.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, yes, 6'7", maybe, but a chance. You're thinking, okay, at least I'm matching some of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But golfers just don't look at the sport that way. So you're absolutely right. I mean, if he ends up after the shot on 17, that's going to become something of master's lore. And then missing a putt, which looked like it really never had a chance on 18. It's not like it was the easiest putt. So it's not like he missed like a two or three footer and he's this choke artist. But...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They needed this bad for everything you just said. And to see what stuff looked like after that time off, it's a bit like that Kyrie stuff that we used to talk about a couple years ago when Kyrie was going off because he wasn't playing that much. Yeah, but it was like, I can't believe Kyrie's doing this. He's barely even playing. And you're like, no, the whole point is he's this fresh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can you imagine? You only have to play like once a week. And I'm not even turning into the Kyrie conversation, but I think it's just something to remember when somebody is not available all the time. It actually can be an advantage as opposed to losing your rhythm. So in the games where Steph came back in that Memphis game, I was watching like, holy shit, like he is flying around. And.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know that I'm necessarily looking at it being worried. He had a really slow start. Then he has 18 to send it to overtime in the fourth quarter. So it's like, okay, it's fine. He's relocating the way he should be. I look at some of the Butler stuff because the record's so absurd. They're a completely different team since that trade in every statistical category.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But maybe going to that game live against the Lakers where he decided to start playing like 14 minutes into the game, I'm like, you know, dude, these are, these are like, granted they won that game and stuff was brilliant, but you're like, you're going to need to not be as, as passive. And he, and he wasn't, I don't think at the start of tonight at all, like he got it going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think when they needed him, but overall Butler still only taking 10 shots a game, he was taking 10 shots a game of Miami. The metric story is great for him because the free throw rate is so absurd, but, they may, I don't know if it's a, Hey, it's playoff Jimmy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So none of it really matters, but there's probably still, even with this great turnaround, probably moments for him where it's like, you need to be looking for your stuff a little bit more. Cause I thought there were drives.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. He, he'll go through these spells where I would just think that in the, the post season and his, his, his work over the last few years tells us that he's going to be that guy again. But, I think it gets lost in this turnaround because he still is really pacing himself at times offensively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But the fact that he's even there has made Steph's life better because when they were just falling apart, it's like, dude, you're asking Steph to run around for 20 seconds and get free and nobody cares. Nobody cares about any of these other guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I think you're right about that. I don't know if the Lakers, who want to play small, played in the Golden State's hands in that last regular season game a couple weeks ago. Like intentionally? Well, clearly... The Warriors would rather go small, even though they're playing post, but he's kind of that five-out guy that we're talking about here a little bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They don't want to play Jackson Hayes. I don't know if that'll be a match-specific thing for the playoffs, but clearly their preference is Rui at center. And it's not that they're small, right? Because they're big at all their positions, other than Vincent or if Goodwin were to get any minutes. They're actually a really big team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was trying to figure all this stuff out this morning. I was going through the regular season series and then who missed how many games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, I did it again this year. I hate myself for it. It's a nightmare. Because even this game with the Clippers and Golden State, it's the first time everybody was ready to go. Kawhi and some of the other matchups hasn't even played against any of these teams. Um, because he came back so much later and sometimes the schedule works out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like, all right, they've already played each other four times, but the fourth game was in December. So then you go, okay, what does that even mean as you get ready for the playoffs here? But that Houston game, I'm glad you brought up because I was thinking, all right, is there a good part of this? Like I, I would think the Warriors would rather play the Lakers, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Just because there's not a size thing that's looming like Zubach. Granted, he wasn't going to be in the matchup in the first round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Absolutely. And he deserves a ton of credit for turning himself into this. But, I mean, he had plays where he stripped Norm just one-on-one at the top of it as they were trying to get another offense. He had the block on the left side.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it's just Moody's definitely, you're right, like he's turned himself into somebody that Kirk can probably trust depending on what the perimeter matchups are there. But I think that Houston win in Golden State going back not that long ago, just a few days ago, it was definitely a week ago. Yeah, he's one of 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's one of those Butler games where I'm like, does he need to take more than seven shots in 33 minutes? And sometimes the shot attempts get lost in the free throws, but he only took four free throws in that one. And you had 42 shot attempts between Pajemski, Heald, and Payton where they shot it well, but... That's probably not what you want. And they sold out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, Houston did a terrific job of not only a men being on him, but making sure that wherever he was going, there was going to be a second defender there. So, yeah, it's kind of your point. And they were super physical. Is it better to be against them because they don't have the big that scares you? Or is it, we're going to throw a million... with a ton of length at Steph.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And so when we're done with the men, then it's going to be Tari. And then we're going to have Brooks beat him up for a little bit here. Like that's where Butler, you're probably going, we need you to take 16 shots tonight in these games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, you could look and say they waved the white flag, but it's because they were getting beat. They were down 20. They were getting their ass kicked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I hate that. I don't think it'll happen this time around, but we've lost Steph in the playoffs twice because of the play-in setup. What do you mean? Oh, for LA. Oh, I know. No, he's 0-3 in play-in games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He lost to the Lakers. And then because they lost to the Lakers, they had to play Memphis. And he had 37 and 39 in those games and they lost. And then in 24, he lost to Sacramento last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think they're really good. But, you know, we're looking at a two seed that over the course of 82 games, it's kind of like our Verno ambush talking about Memphis. Yeah. Where it was like, hey, they were the two seed. They were the two seed. Hey, they were the two seed before all this stuff. I mean, it's like three years you can point to them like, hey, being the two seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The two seed some years sounds way better years removed than the reality of like what the records were of the teams that year. Denver was a one seed that year when Memphis was a two seed. And I think Denver had 53 wins in 23 when they won the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then if you go through the rest of the seeding, I mean, that's why it's so crazy to kind of look back and you're like, hey, Memphis was the two seed. Well, they had 51 wins. Sacramento was a three seed with 48 wins. 48 wins now in the West would put you either the seven or eight seed. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, look, I definitely will have hesitation about big boy playoff closing offensive minutes for the Houston Rockets. I think it's completely fair. And I think Yudoko will decide on the fly. I would be shocked if it's a steady closing five playoff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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during clutch time for them where I think he'll he'll go with some guys and he'll abandon others and he won't give a shit which is actually probably the best thing you could hope for with a coach where he's like this night I mean we just saw we did a conversation on it right about this exact topic and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, I looked, some people were giving a shit, Rockets fans, like, oh, they would never do that. That night, I think the next night, he benched Jalen Green with five minutes to go in the game and then brought him in with 11 seconds left because they were down. The game was already over, and it was like, can you get us a bucket here?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Jalen's probably the best option still with Van Vliet, but I don't know, man. I've seen enough of him this year to know that it gets clogged despite how great their record was in the clutch. Do you have anything else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because we don't know the matchup. For Memphis, Golden State?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm going to say Clippers. Because this has been going on for a while. This is like a month of this. So this isn't new. I almost feel like this might be closer to Clippers minus 200. Denver as home court. Oh, so they're just going with the home court part of this? I'm just reminding you. Clippers minus 150 then.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That actually shocks me. I mean, I realize that it's Denver and I know that it's Jokic, which I learned from one of the playoff previews on ESPN. But I... This Clippers thing is fucking real, man. So, but, you know, do we, are we, are we tricking ourselves? No, we're not. Okay, right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If Kawhi gets hurt, that's, we all understand what is potentially in play for a guy that's in street clothes to close out the last four years, I think, in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But are we tricking ourselves into believing that the elevated pace, understanding Harden's tendencies more, the deer in the headlight game two or game four from him, and then we see it and we go, how could you have ever picked this team? Because I'm going to pick him against Denver. I don't know how far I'm going to go with it, but I'm going to pick him against Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is there anything too? Because I want to ask you this question. Harden not having to be the one because of Kawhi. And it's like, okay, but that was supposed to be Embiid. So Harden wasn't supposed to be the one in the Sixers series. But then we could have this whole other Embiid playoff discussion that we don't have to do this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you're saying better than Westbrook and then P.J. Tucker at center? Yeah, slightly. I think so. And the death screens from Zoo? Like you run into one of his screens, you're going to get a step.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know if he will. I think that Sacramento game earlier this past week. No, I think that that was a sign. I think that was a sign. They went with Pickett to close when they drove with Pickett. Yeah. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Just probably pick a full statement on this. Yeah. Westbrook's actually taking, I think, too much shit on this Denver thing. Oh! Yes! Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now, if you're telling me he had to not make any mistakes all season, okay, fine. And the fact that I think game of the year is still the overtime 60-point triple-double from Jokic against Minnesota because you had Ant and Jokic dueling each other. But you're right. The stakes are not the same as game 82, but that's my favorite game of the season. And you have the Westbrook layup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're not killing clock. or then the foul at the end. But because everybody was watching that game because it's one of the best games in the entire year, then it started turning into like... Look, if you're expecting a mistake-free experience from him, then just pick a different guy. Look, even Steph, who I love, he had two bad turnovers late in this game. He got caught in the corner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He had another thing he was trying to do in the baseline, but the 18 points kind of makes up for that a little bit. But... With all of this, because of his history, where it felt like every place he's gone post-OKC, couldn't wait for him to get out of there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Although I think Wizards fans enjoyed it. I think Wizards fans enjoyed... when he was there. So I would add that one to like the positive part of this. And sure. I should Malone have let him gone to LA and, and get the vet treatments. The other guys did. I don't know, like whatever that's, I don't think that's why they fell apart, but he's being thrown into the storyline of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you tell, well, Westbrook also did this and there was some complaints over the minutes. I've been, Maybe because my standards or expectations for him are so low. He's done the best job he's ever done in his career post-OKC accepting his role. We agree. I'm just saying... You can't believe I'm saying it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's not the same though. It's not the same. Like if Chris Paul gets a ring next year, by the way, shout out Chris Paul, 82 games, 82 games. If he gets a ring now, it doesn't mean like, Hey, I was right. So I also don't know that Rory had the, as many stops as many tumultuous stops as Westbrook did. So I don't know if that one works.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that's the difference with the sport. Like, basketball doesn't really give you a chance to sit there and mope. Like, you kind of have to get back to it. I mean, most of the sports that we talk about all the time, there's very little time to sit there and kind of think about what you're going through. And for him to double one...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Are you anticipating kids don't even know clips? I think it could be there. If you put together those, they're going to be like, how many rings did he have?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and then you send me a text you go hey we may have to lead with this if he falls apart and it's almost this anticipation that he's going to fall apart because he's played so well the first three rounds and then i look it up like oh but then he's like four under the next 10 holes so i think it's kind of the sport and even him you know going into the bunker which you're right is the bigger part of him missing the pot on 18 is that he actually kind of cracked a smile

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh man. I mean, Luca was funny when he was tearing up. Did you hear about this? They asked him which moment got him in the tribute video. And he was like, when I hit that step back and go bear.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Gobert played it great, I thought. Dudes hate Gobert. Kevin Porter Jr., not afraid to get into it with everybody. Just actually important for Milwaukee lately. Been playing some good basketball. Getting into it with everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Beef stew is just like, look, first practice, new guys, we beat the shit out of you. But it's just sort of like, I don't know if you saw Colors, older movie. We're just going to have to initiate you. So, you know, ice up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think you're right about that because it's a bit like the Ime thing that we were talking about there with Finch. Like, will he? Because there were times this year it felt like he was sick of Randall. Randall's probably played the best basketball. They needed him huge in that Memphis game. He was fantastic when they just ran away from the Grizzlies.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Gobert is, especially in that matchup, he's closing. But I do wonder, with the stuff that we're talking about, how the Lakers prefer to be real perimeter-based if it'd be a situation where they're going to be bringing... bringing Rudy out. Because the best part about Rudy is the guy screens all night. He plays his ass off. He hustles like crazy, but nobody wants to pass to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then if he gets caught in a switch hunting season, then it could be, I think, like Houston, Bill. I think Minnesota's going to have a bunch of different blocks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think you're kind of shortchanging the perimeter guys, though, from what we've seen in the playoffs last year. The Minnesota perimeter guys. Defensively, Jaden's really good on the ball against somebody smaller. The problem is, is him on the ball against Luka. Like, I think we saw it against him. Right. Yeah, exactly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So with Jaden's defensive resume, which I think all of us really like, that's probably not going to hold up. And you're right. We saw some of that stuff last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He almost laughed at himself, like, you're going to be fucking kidding me. Yeah. So that there was some emotion that he was showing, I thought was a better sign. And I also think it helps probably playing 18 again all over to start the playoff, knowing, like, okay, in my second shot, like, I can't do that again. Right. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The other thing, too, is three of their games were October 22nd, December 2nd, December 13th. No, I looked this up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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No, but I think attacking Luka is going to happen, but they're probably just going to double ant and then go, all right, in the McDaniels-Conley minutes. go ahead and shoot. And if we get burned by that, fine. Maybe it changes with DiVincenzo. And then I think there's a lot of, there's just a lot of room for Randall here because you're going to sell out to stop Ant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're going to keep two with the ball on him on all this stuff. You're going to have to help out Luca. You know, it depends like LeBron energy level. You know, it's it's fascinating because you went to that game when he came back against Chicago and it would make sense. He had times off, but he moved so well in that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then you can turn on a Lakers game two nights later and you're like, what's going on? And then against Dallas, we saw him last week. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I did. How did he look in that game? It was fine, but there's... Clearly, he knows how to pace himself probably better than anybody in the entire league. This is like year four or five. We talked about him like, yeah, he kind of makes spots. It's like, all right, yep, he had 30-12 and 11 again, so he's doing fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I'd imagine that his intensity on some of the defensive stuff where I don't know that he can... get away with the kind of switching where it's like, hey, I'm always staying here, so I don't have to move on a switch or I'm going to pre-switch something to get out of it ahead of time so that I'm not in this thing over and over again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think in the regular season, you can get away with some of that stuff. I don't know that that'll happen in the playoffs. And I imagine it's intensity and the time off and a little bit, it's just an easier schedule than what you have in the regular season, even with the race intensity. Yeah, we always seem to forget that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like, hey, these built-in days off, you're staying in the same place for a little while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I think it's expected that he's going to be more intense with all this kind of stuff, but it may come down to like the Rui part of it where Gobert has to respect him and his shooting from three. So if Rui's in the screen or something like that, it's like, okay, well, I can't ignore this guy. That might be... the difference in all this stuff because we know all the stars.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I also think a lot of people in attendance, too, based on, you know, what we're talking about, just the patrons, right, and their mindset of just wanting great things to happen and not terrible things to happen. It's a very positive group.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, that's the thing. And now I'm at about an 81. Everything we're always talking about is based on like, well, where were you before? Like, you really like him. No, he was an 11 out of 100. And now he's like 50. So, yeah, that doesn't mean I'm in love with the guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If he has it going, it's like, oh, shit. He reminded me a lot of Cat. Like, you sit there and say, well, Cat was a good matchup for Jokic, and you go, all right, well... You know, is it 30 points? It's really the difference in these playoff games because Jokic is going to get his 30. Was it an easy 30? Was it a hard 30? And I think Cat at least provided some kind of resistance to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I thought that regular season game where the Lakers put it on him, they're really good on how they didn't want to space the floor defensively. And a lot of that started with Rui being tasked with, can you just at least challenge him on catches? Can you make him have to work a little bit more? And I thought he had a really good game there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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there's um there's also there's also something too which it's not i shouldn't say selfish but they want to see him complete the slam so now he's got to ever do it you get to say that you were there in 25 at augusta to see this this is one of those it's not tiger's win but it's one of the more memorable ones because he completes this career odyssey because if you think about the start of his career it was like oh my god like what what can't this guy do we're going to talk about like

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I wouldn't bet against it, would you? No, I wouldn't because I feel like we're going to look back at this Giannis stretch and go, he only won one MVP out of this whole thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, granted, everybody's going to remember what Jokic should be doing here, but this is almost like a Joe Frazier, Muhammad Ali thing in a way because I look at the numbers and it's not like when you watch it, it deceives you. It's just so stupid how good he is. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you are not ready for it... I know this isn't new, but watching that Detroit game in particular, because I wanted to see how it was playing out. Cade was coming off the great Knicks finish, so I wanted to see how they were going to defend him. And then we were looking at playoff seating and wondering what you could have as a potential matchup with all this stuff. But...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's going crazy the whole time, which is my favorite thing about him, is that he is that competitive. So when he blocks Beasley's shot, which was a huge shot in the game, and Beasley, who feels himself the entire two fucking hours of a basketball game. So they've already gotten into it. And they play it together. Right. And Kevin Porter Jr.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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dunks on Dern, which was filthy, lets him have it a little bit. Dern comes down, screens the shit out of him. Porter doesn't like it. Porter runs right into him and hits him in a way like only a smaller player can get away with doing that to a bigger guy. And then it causes kind of a melee. Like Giannis at that point was like, all right, he is one of those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think he gets enough credit for like when you piss him off. I'm not saying it's Jordan, but there's an alarm that goes off. Like, once Giannis is pissed off in a game, so he's just going to have to get pissed off, I guess, four times in this. Can something happen to him enough where it just becomes unstoppable?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because they are the better team, and I think the Bucs are still searching for it. And, you know, even with Kevin Porter getting some better nights out of it, like, that's asking a lot of that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Asking him to cover in a playoff rotation and like, hey, don't have this fall apart. Because there's other times, I'd say a couple weeks ago, I was like, what is Doc doing? And clearly Doc was like, I may need this dude. And we know how talented he is. So he was letting him kind of run the show. That Houston game comes to mind when he was just a disaster. But he's played better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then I'm like, okay, so the Pacers, who I really like all their depth, I'm going to pick Milwaukee with them still trying to kind of figure this thing out on the fly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Cause he is that good at getting wherever he wants on the floor and his athleticism and the finish and all that kind of stuff. But like, Is there a Lopez conversation on how that plays out? Is Kuzma going to play great in the first half? Does Prince hit enough shots? A.J. Green's clearly going to get minutes because he's a major part of the rotation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It is funny, though, when you think about the Pacers and why you'd pick against them. Since the All-Star break, they're eighth in defense, which feels impossible. That group's figuring it out defensively enough. And Milwaukee's, yeah, 16th. But they had a good record. I mean, they closed 19-10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is he going to win 10 majors or something like that? I remember one of the debate shows at ESPN, like after he got married, it was like, well, he is married. It's like, so he's the only pro athlete who's married and this is why he's playing bad. Now, all of a sudden, like I understand, I understand time constraints can change as the non-married guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, this will be what? This will be seven. Seven straight. To me, he should finish third in the MVP. And I even feel bad, you know, putting him there because of how special he is. But whatever. I mean, we've got a great top of the MVP class this year. But it's going to be seven straight years of the top four finishing MVP.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you start putting that resume up against, like, the birds and the magic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like I'm aware that your schedule is a little tighter, but it just, it drove me crazy because he wasn't playing as well. And there had to be a reason that was like the only thing that anybody could point to. Uh, but he's never really been somebody that, I mean, his, his game itself is so enjoyable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm glad we're not. I was like, oh no, are we doing this today? I have for defensive player of the year, I'm pretty sure I already know what I'm doing, but specifically on the defensive stuff, like I'm fine with all the other things, but defensive stuff, I want to be able to make the rounds and talk to enough people because I just don't want to miss anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't want to be sitting there and look at defensive box score and going, well, this guy was better than this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, I... I don't know that that's true. I feel a bit like the college football playoff commissioner where I'm never going to give you an answer. I'm not going to talk about conferences being better than other conferences. I'm going to say that all of it's factored in. This is important. That's not not important.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I have fundamental beliefs, but each year is a different field. So I'm not going to tell you that I'm prioritizing this all the time because I One year may not matter as much. You know, the standings thing. I know you guys do a couple weeks ago and you didn't seem to like that very much. But I was watching being you guys. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know if that's true, but I mean, with you. No, but I was watching Zach. Right. Yeah. Fired up to have him on the team. And he was talking about his MVP vote. And he was like, I've been SGA all season long. And now I'm just starting to think like, how can I not vote for Jokic?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But it's the standings, right? See, but it's the standings. And I think there's times you maybe, I mean, could it be the tiebreaker for an All-NBA? I don't think that's necessarily wrong, but I don't know, man. I'm not having a hard time with this one. I'm voting for Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think he had a shot yesterday where I was watching, he's like 209 out, hits a six iron and he smokes it into the air too. He throws it like a dart and you're like, how did you get it that far at that angle? So he's also probably as much fun as everybody or anyone on the, on the tour on top of everybody, uh, rooting for somebody, him for like, like him to complete this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I decided a while ago. And I wouldn't say anything's happened recently where I'm like, oh, I'm wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Jokic is the best player in the world. I think his stats are close enough, depending on which metrics you want to look at, if not superior to SGA's. And it'd be one thing if they were a disastrous team on the season, but I didn't really have a hard time with it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I normally always am going to just, I just think it's hard to have a perimeter guy and say this perimeter guy is as valuable as, as this other guy is that's a big who's coming over to help at the rim. In the times where Mobley could switch out of the perimeter guy and he holds up really well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's the one on the left side on the drive where he gets a decent enough bounce. And then you're like, he's going to go through that or over it or what? It's like the guy that never gives in to just go, let me save the hole. He's constantly thinking like, what's the best score can I get on? He plays the game the way no one should ever play it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I've kind of struggled with the Dort-Mobley thing, but I will tell you, again, defensively on these awards, I like to talk to people because it's just the one you don't want to miss. And it's a hard award to feel like, okay, I've absolutely nailed this, especially when you do the first and second team. And the Draymond push has been incredible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I don't want to act like you're dismissing Draymond, but sometimes... there can be this push where you're like, this is a six-month award. Let's remember that. And Mobley, to start the season, there's some numbers that tell you his impact was far greater in the first half of the season, second half of the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But back to the original asking people about defensive stuff, the number of times that people just kind of stop and take a breath when they talk about Lou Dort that are working in the league every night, you can't help but be impressionable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The smart one felt like a campaign though too. Like he just, he did all these interviews where he kept just going, oh, you know, we never get to win it or, you know. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know. I'd argue Rob Williams, although you could then go, OK, but Rob got to do what he did because he was on somebody in the corner who primarily it would be hopefully a non shooter. So then he could just roam and freelance the entire time. So the perimeter guys, usually it takes so much more for me to go into.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And by the way, he actually beat another perimeter guy that year because Bridges was in second. Gobert was third.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Since the All-Star break, and granted, the numbers are a little weird for the Knicks, but who do you think's better defensively?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Since the All-Star break, the Knicks are 11th on defense. The Pistons are 15th. And by the way, points-wise, it's a half a point. So it's not like some dramatic difference here. Now, is that because Brunson was missing some of those games? Is there something there as opposed to, no, we have Mitchell Robinson back. But I'm with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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This feels a bit like, hey, you're going to get a little playoff season in Detroit. This is an incredible story, but... are you really going to beat the Knicks despite their flaws and the flaws that we would get into as they move a little bit further on? Because that's why the Pacers-Knicks scenarios where you were like, if they end up facing each other... That was bad for the Knicks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, because it kind of felt like... Not a good series for them. There were similarities where you didn't like your point guard on defense, you didn't like your center on defense, but you liked some of your options around it. But that might be the problem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Were you more tempted to go Brunson or Ant for Mitchell's spot?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I'm sure Warriors fans couldn't make a couple of those in Game 7.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, the records, I mean, they're both around 500, but Atlanta's defense is so bad that I think if you're going up against somebody in the playoffs, you'd probably rather have a terrible, terrible defense just knowing that this is going to be easy work. Even in the night where we're not feeling it, we're not making threes, are we actually going to be scared of anything?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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As opposed to Orlando, who we know their offense at times has been unwatchable. And it's improved from unwatchable the last few weeks, but it's, it's a one, two punch of, of Palo and Franz. So, you know, and I think you could look at some of the Miami stuff, but it's just that Miami's at best a very average basketball team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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But when he was still playing, I was tracking touches. Just how many touches do you have? So it's pretty clear Jokic has more. He touches the basketball more times in a basketball game than any other player. In the league and Trey's usually right around there, if not other years where he's led the league in total touches over the course of the entire season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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During the time Jalen Johnson was playing, he'd be like third or fourth in the NBA. That's how important he was and how much they trusted him. And thinking, think about that too, playing off of Trey and having another guy that actually has that many touches.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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And he looks like he's on the way to, you know, I don't know if he's like a superstar changes the face of the franchise kind of thing, but he was really special and a lot of fun to watch. So you're right. Like, look, every summer we'll do it again next year. We do the over-unders and we're like, you know what roster I do kind of like, despite some of the obvious concerns? Yeah. It's Atlanta.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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But don't you think, look, San Antonio... They could be five better, five games better, right? They were five out of the 10 spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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There's no way he doesn't say, fine, take Reeves. It's my favorite part. Forget about what it would be like lining up a putt to win the Masters on 18. How would you handle that? Yeah. I do. I like to take ourselves through the exercise of if this person calls you and offers you this...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Will you have the balls to say no to something that you desperately want, knowing that, OK, this fixes for all of like this Lakers window extending and, you know, running in Denver in the last couple of playoffs? Like, hey, if something bounces our way like this has actually been, I think, a more successful run for the Lakers than they actually get credit for. But because LeBron's on the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're held to maybe the standard they're supposed to be a title contender, so then they're brought up as a title contender on TV shows, and you and I have talked about it. We're like, going into this year, they're like, look, they're probably not going to have the same health luck that they had with AD and LeBron the year prior.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If they're healthy in the playoffs, they get the right matchup, maybe, but this is a team that won a title... what, half a decade ago. And here we go. Like, I don't know. I can't figure them out. Like, I don't know if I should be picking them because I can't imagine that they would beat OKC in a seven game series if they're lucky enough to get that far.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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OK, but looking at that would be in the Western Conference Finals. Looking at that moment where you're Nico and you go, well, I have to ask for more because Palenka can't actually say, like Palenka would never bring it up. He'd be like, you know, I was this close to getting Luka, but I wouldn't include Reeves. And you would just go, Luka solves the next five years of your what if post LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Next 15 years. Let's call it seven. Let's call it 12. To get worked that bad. It's been two months since the trade, and I did a monologue on it the other day, and I still felt like it was somewhat relevant. Great, because it was his first time coming back, and he has 31 in the first half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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But it's so bad that I don't think they can fire him because they all acted like they were all on the same page, and they're going to have to ride it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Imagine if Nico says, well, then they would have said no. We'd be like, oh, no.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I can't believe it. The one guy that had the say in it thought the least of the asset in the entire basketball world. The one guy that exists, right? Because there's always one guy who's like, oh, he's not that good. I think Skip tried, Skip Bayless tried to have a LeBron Rory tweet or something, or it didn't, I don't know. It was basically just a new way to shit on LeBron. And interesting. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I was like, cool. Tricep pull down. He's in the lab, bro. Yeah. He was in the lab just baking them. So there's always one person that will find a way to say the thing that like, you can't fucking believe somebody believes. And this, the one person happened to be the guy who was running the Dallas Mavericks when it came to Luca.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I remember 2025 because you were able to be professional enough to go to YouTube live that night with me and Mahoney and do an hour of content. In nine minutes. Knowing deep down, for personal reasons, how much you hate this fucking transaction.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Oh, the Houston game? Yeah. It's just... Yeah, he had 39. It's a typical game. Look at 39. It was even worse than that Dallas game, too, because then AD's not doing anything. He's having the bad AD game. I always think it's so stupid when the guys are on TV going, hey, AD's not a bad player. No shit. All of us have TVs. We know AD is really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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That's also another thing in the Lakers conversation, though, because over that 18-3 stretch where their defense was first or second in the league, it was going for a month. Because when they added Luka, I think it was fair to also look at the perimeter defense going like, okay, but how is this going to hold up on the perimeter? Are these guys, is Luka going to get hunted?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I think Reeves does a good job of being in position. He's one of those guys that's smart, but clearly there's going to be times if you get him deep enough, you can overpower him a little bit. And then night to night, like, look, I expect that we're going to see a more consistent effort, somebody that's willing to not just switch into advantages for him to rest himself with LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Like, I imagine he's going to play with more intensity on that side of the basketball. But the last 15, whatever, you can throw it all away, but they're 21st in defense. So when they were one of the three best defenses in the NBA for over a month after they had made the trade, I couldn't... We could talk about coaching. That was a mirage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're giving the staff all of this credit and game in and game out. I think they prep, they adapt better. It's almost like a football team going into a Sunday being like, this is the game plan specific, which can get lost in an NBA regular season. But... I'm with like that felt it just like there's no way they're this good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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It might be the only time I watched golf and cared during college, like that round. Right. Right? I mean, sports are hard to find a way to fit into the... We didn't have cable, I think, in our house for like two or three years, too, on top of everything else. So it's like, all right, network TV, we don't have a ton of options.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're not going to be a top five defense like a it starts with defense with that group. Maybe they outscore Minnesota, but and it doesn't really matter what the scores were before, but those are actually lower scoring games. But they had played so long ago. Again, it's pre Lucas, so it doesn't really matter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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And again, the whole point of Luca is when it all falls apart and you need a bucket, it's one 10, one 10, and you're under a minute and everybody knows everything you're doing and it's game four and they're going to sell out. And it's just like, I'm just going to score. And it's at its, Worst, is it the second or third best thing in the entire league of like, hey, I need a bucket?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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And we have playoff success to prove that that works. As much as Boston ran him into the ground defensively and all that kind of stuff, you've traded this thing that is the most important thing to actually succeed in the playoffs. Him with the ball deciding what he's going to do. It might be the best thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Jokic might give you the best look. Doncic will probably give you the best shot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I don't think it's Dallas, man. When they had a lineup out there, it was one center lineup, and I think on the perimeter it was Dinwiddie, Najee, Clay, and then I think PJ may have been playing power forward with the center.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I just remember not being super dialed into 160 Red Sox games during college. And I just remember that afternoon, you know? It's a hungover, whatever. Is it muddy out or sunny out in Vermont? And then you realize that really is one of those results you'll never forget where you were.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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And the amount of resistance that wasn't happening on the perimeter defensively, and even PJ, who you think at least physically can hold up and stuff, he lost LeBron in one of those plays. I'm just watching that going like, all right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Even if AD and Kyrie were here, they have some lineups where they'd have to maybe switch some guys out and just go, we're going to have to hold up defensively here with some better options there. Memphis, I know exactly what it's going to look like at the end of the playoff game. Maybe it'll go in. Maybe it won't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, that was a tough one for Pat's fans because you're like, well, you know what? That group competed, and they can use that 25. Remember when we were supposed to lose? We fought really hard. We can build on that. They're like, yeah, we can build on it with less resources.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Question for you. Would you rather the Sixers or Spurs win the lottery? Spurs. Okay, I know last week we both agreed pretty quickly without any discussion that the Sixers winning the lottery would be the grossest of all the outcomes. It would be disgusting. Are the Spurs a little...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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It felt like it was turning on Daryl when the news came out. It was like, yeah, and ownership was really hesitant about giving Joel that deal. And you're like, oh, really? The guys who have to pay the $200 million were hesitant about doing it? I'm a little worried about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah, I think it was... Again, I was so much younger then, right? So it was 1996. I remember, I think there was some high fives that he gave the guys as he came out. Like he had done something cool and that just really bothered me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Randy Smith from Buffalo State? Yeah, he was good. He was a 14th round pick. Talk about a sleeper.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Okay, well, I think what they're doing with Saturday, trying to give everybody equal footing, right? Give everybody the day off. Make sure it's not back-to-back. Seating stuff is really going to matter. Some years it's going to go great. This year was thick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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The TV game is so competitive right now. I mean, unless you just say, hey, let's make sure we're never going to be going up against the Masters for Games 82. Okay, does that mean you move it all to Monday? But you keep moving this stuff around, the play-in part of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Okay, but isn't the fear, if you do that, right? Flex it out, NBA version of it. That game could be totally pointless, too, at some point. Or do you make that decision just days ahead of time?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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A lot of parity at the top of the American League. Just like Jeff Passan told us. Flat.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I could save it to unveil the ballot with you next Sunday. Why don't we do that? I think it's more fun. I think it's more fun. When is our stuff due? I think it's the 18th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. I don't think anybody's going to be surprised, um, by what I've said, but yeah, you're right. Like, That'd be something you'd be good at because I feel like there's times I'll text Rudy about a topic for our Tuesday, Thursday, and then I go, you know, this would be better with Bill. Like available belts. Available belts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I'm talking NBA, maybe belt availability would be the better way to title it. Oh, for an award? Yeah. No, meaning like I like when you do which player has had the belt, right? The best player in the world. Yeah. When did he have it? Who got it next? How long did this player have it? How short was this guy's belt run? Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So if you went through the entire league right now and say, all right, Jokic has the belt. How many other players? Like how long is the list of players? Like, it doesn't seem crazy where you're going like, okay, that guy could at some point be the best player in the world. That list is not over 10 players, I don't think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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However, I'd also say that we have three recent belt holders that no one could have ever seen, even if you were being incredibly generous, between Giannis, Jokic especially, and even Kawhi. It's like at one point, that guy's going to be the best player in the world, and it's three in a pretty short amount of time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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I looked at my Jokic scattering report that I wrote up. We were in a commercial when he got drafted. Right. I looked it up because I always like to go back and be like, well, I don't know what I thought of this guy, right? Yeah. Sometimes it's fun. A lot of times it's horrifying. But it was like, man, this guy's a lot of fun. And then at the end, it was like, but come on, dude. Give me a break.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Rory’s Special Win, Beware of the Clips, NBA Playoff Gut Reactions, and the Luka Trade Part 93 With Ryen Russillo

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Well, the first time, and I would only be able to watch him on Synergy, so I would just go back because he was on the list and because I was doing my own stuff. I didn't want to just read everybody else's stuff, and then I would do the draft on Synergy. whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't even know if we even talked about the second rounders when they're even picked because we'd interview so many people on the live broadcast for radio, like radio back then when we did the draft, it was like interview, interview, interview.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Like we're able to get Nicole Yoko from Serbia. So when you first watch Yoko, you're like, what is this? This is like, this is hilarious. Like, I can't believe you did this. I can't believe you did that. But then, you know, again, athletically, you're just like, well, what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But, yeah, I mean, even Giannis was physically so ridiculous that But what I saw him, it was just, and I know I've talked about this before, but he was just beating up on these dudes and this lower level stuff where you didn't really even know what to make of what you were watching. It looked like a record game. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, it's a really great way of putting it because I remember when the Sloan paper came out about there's no such thing as clutch. And I thought, okay, you know, there's all sorts of great basketball players. Like if we want to just shave it down to down one, score tied, take the shot. And then you look at the field goal makes versus field goal attempts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like your favorite players have awful stats, right? Like there's all sorts of guys you can go through and be like, this guy's a killer. And then you're like, he's two for 30 in these situations. And then if people hate one of those guys, they'll put that up. And it's like, OK, I mean, it feels a little like politics. Like, what's your guy doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, what's your guy shooting in that situation, which completely eliminates.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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like the shot down three with 58 seconds left to go that ties it it's like that's a really clutch shot that matters but it gets lost in the filtering with a lot of the stuff right so when that paper came out it it wasn't like i didn't do a oh nerds thing you know like some of the sloan papers that had come out early on or talked about like the ways to block shots because it wasn't always gaining the possession but i just felt like okay if there's math that that can't prove that this thing is true

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Do we believe that there are people that are really tight in big spots? And the sport of golf, probably that shows up more than any other sport. I don't know if it's somebody throwing an interception. I don't know if it's maybe it's missing a free throw is the closest thing we have to a putt in the other sports. Maybe it's an error, but again, that's not going to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're not going to have enough chances or the math would make any sense. So if we sit here and we agree that there are people that can choke, that are just not comfortable, then we should be able to figure out a way. Maybe there isn't math that backs it up, but there are people that are just a little bit more comfortable coming back from that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And golf presents like this reset where you open with a double Ferrari and it's like, here we go. And everybody sitting around watching just knows what would happen to them. like you're just going to fall apart. It's like, well, again, this is why these guys are the best in the world. There's nothing in the other sports. Like I don't watch a receiver get open going. I can do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't watch somebody get a shot off in basketball thinking, Oh, that, you know, I would like, we just, we've accepted the gap, but with golf, because there are moments where even the worst golfer can have like this great shot and everybody like kids around or your friends are asking you like, what would you do on 18 right now? Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's that disconnect where I don't know that we appreciate the mental reset hole to hole that these guys have to do to keep themselves in it and then ultimately win a major.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Look, probably the first time I ever called a baseball game because it was the first time I was ever on the air. The nervousness went away pretty quickly. I was definitely a little tuned up to host them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

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Over the last five seasons, the 2020s, they're 51-33. It was like, you would never think if you said to somebody who is the best team in the NFC this decade, I don't think they would have been a top four guest for anybody, but I think they are. It's either them or Philadelphia. They have a better record and more playoff wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then the loss today, like, you know, I think they would have had a chance in round two against whoever they played. But the Mayfield thing, When you think about, he goes to Cleveland, plays for four coaches his first three seasons. He wins their first playoff game with that franchise, right? Since they came back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

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He tore his labrum in his left shoulder, second game 2021, has the year from hell. They end up paying him to go away, 11 million in Carolina, and go into the Sean thing. And now Baker, he's not a top five quarterback, but he's in the top 10 or 11. And you just think, like, this whole thing is one of the biggest disaster decisions start to finish in the history of the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

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And we make fun of the South every year. It's our fault. Yeah. The thing, if you're talking about just QB assets and we always talk about a rookie QB, how that's the best asset you can have, but they have him, his contract compared to the other monster contracts where every other superstar is making 50, 55 million a year, whatever they're on the cap for.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1130.874

And I think he signed for like 30, 30 plus a year, something like that. So definitely a better asset. Anyway, that was a great game for for the weekend because up until that point, it felt like it was the worst weekend ever for a variety of reasons, real life reasons, the actual games. It was just one of those weekends you're like, Man, I used to love round one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1157.267

And this time I feel stupid watching football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

117.709

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1205.222

Yeah, weirdly the NBA might be in the best shape for a round one this year because they have so much talent and they have some teams in the 7, 8, 9, 10 range that the play-ins will be fun. Now you're mad at me about the Sacramento.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1222.475

No, because I saw your mind go to the Sacramento, Indiana, Minnesota bet we made.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1233.764

The Sacramento under, Indiana over, and the Minnesota under. And after we did it, Sacramento fired their coach. And now they're just pulling games out of their ass. Game after game after game. Let's take a break and we'll talk about the other games. I hope you're using FanDuel for the NFL playoffs right now. All customers can get a no-sweat NFL same-game parlay for the Vikings versus Rams game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1258.586

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1299.831

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1323.462

One of my favorite shows, beautiful locations, twisted characters, unexpected scenarios. The White Lotus is going to Thailand. You know, I'm excited. I mean, we're doing prestige TV again, me, Mallory and Joanna Robinson. We're doing right after every show, putting a recap episode on the prestige TV, same luxury, new reservations for all of us. How are they going to make the show better?

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1345.814

The answer is the show's great no matter where it is. I'm excited to be in a new country with our weird, mysterious, probably creepy White Lotus gang, but I love this show. And you can watch a new season of the Emmy Award-winning HBO original series, The White Lotus, premiering February 16th at 9 p.m. on Max. All right, so our schedule before we get to the rest of the games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1368.199

We have Houston and Kansas City. That's an ESPN game. On Saturday, it's the first one. We need a name for the round two first game on Saturday. It's not a Shakey's game, but it's a better restaurant that... you know you can probably rent a table for... Get a table for like $20, $25. You wouldn't exactly have your wedding reception there, but it's serviceable and solid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1393.213

It's kind of exciting, but not totally. I don't... I also don't want to insult any possible sponsors we might get, but...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

140.254

They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I did not have a podcast for you on Tuesday and Thursday last week for obvious reasons. It was the worst week ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1415.246

Kyle says the Texas Roadhouse game. Texas Roadhouses are fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1420.27

I was going to say the Bianco Pizza game, but I don't want Bianco to be mad at me. Because Bianco could do like a pizza pop-up. But you might take that personally.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1427.515

Even though I'm complimenting it because I love Bianco Pizza. Houston at KCESPN. Then Saturday night, Washington at Detroit. Sunday, NBC. Either Minnesota or the Rams playing in Philadelphia. So we get Collinsworth in Philadelphia. Oh, Mike, it's so cold. My nipples are frozen, Mike. I can't even feel my nipples.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1466.718

Baltimore at Buffalo. So the storylines, I guess, would be Casey going for the three-peat. It officially starts now. Jaden Daniels and the exciting, rejuvenated Washington Commanders against the team that's really been America's team this year, the Detroit Lions, where they've just been on every week. We like watching them. We know all the characters at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1491.621

Dan Campbell's like the dad in a Friday sitcom. Then, I don't know. What's more fun? Minnesota, Philadelphia, or Rams, Philadelphia? Probably Minnesota-Philadelphia, right? For the history of some of the games they've had?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1516.059

And then Baltimore Buffalo is the great. That's it. That's what's decided. You rarely get this. You get this in basketball sometimes. You rarely get this in the NFL where it's like, we've argued about this all year. I think it's been a fun argument. I don't feel like it ever degenerated anything bad. I'm still not positive who I think the MVP is. Like I left on the weekend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1535.532

I'm like, I don't, I, both of those guys were awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

155.438

In the history of Southern California, there was just so much devastation, so much heartache, so much fear, so much terror. And ultimately, everything about it was awful. And some people stepped up, fire department, police department, first responders, TV reporters on the ground, helicopter pilots dropping water.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1560.419

All right, the game before the good game was Packers-Eagles, which was a classic Philadelphia win where they're up 10-0 and their fans are just complaining. And the game has no flow. You don't really understand what's going on. I actually watched with a couple of Eagles fans today and they're cutting to A.J. Brown. He's reading a book at one point because he's pissed off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1583.978

He's not getting the ball. Everyone's like, what's wrong with Hurts? Is he healthy? What's going on with him? And they just kind of limped their way to a convincing win that was never in doubt. And they went by double digits and they, you leave the game and you go, what just happened? Are the Eagles good? I'm not, it's just was typical.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1666.803

They've really made it seem like it's now a reality show where it's like season 41 of the challenge. Just put 10 guys in a pile. Whoever has the ball when we pull everybody apart, they get the ball. I texted you a couple of times over the weekend. I watch football every weekend. I feel like I understand all the rules. I still don't understand what an intentional grounding is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1688.678

CJ Stroud, that was one of the biggest plays in that Chargers game. It just seemed like a cut and dry intentional grounding. And they're like, Now I got it over the line of scrimmage and he was out of the pocket.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1700.366

He was two feet to the left. How was he out of the pocket? It just seemed like an automatic. He definitely did an intentional grounding because he was about to get sacked. So they said it wasn't. And then I always felt like if the guy clearly had the ball in the pile before he disappeared into the pile, usually the guy gets the ball back. Of course.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1718.897

But this time they were like, nope, he didn't totally have it yet. It's like, he didn't? Seemed like he had it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1746.841

I don't understand. I've said this over and over again, watching them. I don't understand their offense. I don't understand why it's so slow and deliberate and has no pace and has no pep and just seems laborious at all times. I don't get it. I don't understand. We were joking about it in the first quarter. We're watching like, here we go. 39 seconds to the next Saquon handoff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1766.365

This would be 37 seconds. And it's just, they play with no pace. They, they play with no unpredictability at all. They never try to put any sort of pressure. You'd think like if you have Saquon as a running back with Hertz's ability to run and pass and the receivers they have, you could almost go no huddle and just put a defense, you know, put them on their back pedal. They don't do anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1786.363

They're just like, don't do all your subs, get all your guys in and out, do what you need to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

179.085

all of the people in various communities who banded together to get toiletries and extra clothes and all kinds of things people need if their house has just burned down or they've been evacuated. So there was some good that came out of some awful. And it was as awful as it gets. And I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I wasn't sure that we should do a podcast today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1835.73

So, I don't know. I actually rewound it. It seemed like the D-back had an angle and maybe could have chased him down 30 yards downfield. But yeah, he definitely slid a little early. There was a couple moments today with covers and over-unders because you had that play. You had Matt Collins about to go. He's setting up the bills on the two-yard line. Terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1856.427

Next touchdown covers, every tease and adjusted over if you had 41, 42, whatever. And then what was the other one? Was that the Baltimore-Pittsburgh just ending at 42 points? That felt like that could have been harder, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1875.359

Oh, and then the Chargers-Texans game somehow going over.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1901.531

Right. Well, and he's not even... When they're celebrating at the end, he seems on the side. He's such a polarizing guy within the Eagles... Like I know a lot of Eagles fans, none of them have a handle on him at all, but yet they've been winning and they've been successful with them. Right. But you watch and it's just, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1919.041

There there's, when you look at like what we saw from Allen and Mahomes in somewhat similar offensive situations from a weapon standpoint, and they're just so electric and I guess Hertz just doesn't have that. level in him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1951.404

Read inner excellence, but borrow a copy from AJ Brad. I was thinking Eagles fans. Cause they've, the team has been successful. But they also love complaining about them, and I don't really blame them. But it's like the friend who's married to the guy that you always feel like they're going to get divorced, and they're never divorced, but she's always complaining about him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1972.652

That's kind of the Eagles fans with this team. Yeah, you'd think they'd root for the Panthers all these years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1980.117

Didn't you go 13-4? Green Bay was kind of the hipster Super Bowl contender this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

1989.632

They were like the alternate pick. I know we had money on them. We both loved Detroit with the one seed and some Super Bowl bets. But then Green Bay was kind of the, well, here's plan B if the Detroit thing doesn't work out. They ended up going 0-6 against Philly and Minnesota and Detroit. And this was more alarming to me. I'm throwing out the Brazil game in week one because that game was stupid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2011.09

They're playing it. I don't understand what that field was. In the other games against those three teams, they fell behind by 21 to Minnesota, by 17 to Minnesota. They fell behind 21 to Detroit. They were down 10 to Detroit, and they were down 10 today, 10-0. This was them against any good team. They just immediately spotted 10, 12, 17 points, whatever it was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2035.267

And there was a couple of times where they would kind of come back. What changed today was they lost Watson before the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2042.234

And then they lose two more weapons. So they couldn't even do the comeback thing that Love was pretty good at. I thought Love had a really bad year for what my expectations were. If my expectations were an A minus, I thought he was like a C plus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

205.945

Sal and I have reacted after round one, really since 2007. And I don't know if we should have done a podcast, but we decided we wanted everything to feel normal again for an hour. So we decided to talk football and we talked about California at the tail end. But I wanted to just give my best to everybody out there who's been affected by this in some way because... I just can't believe it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2070.056

No, they beat up Miami on Thanksgiving. There was that Thanksgiving and the week after. We should remember this for next year because there was a moment where Green Bay looked like the most dangerous NFC team. Pittsburgh looked like they had the one seed locked up. They had already beaten Baltimore. They had a two-game lead. They, I think, were 10-3.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2088.346

And it just felt like they were going to be 13-3. They never won again. They were 10-3 and... And that was it. I think they lost their last five and just completely fell apart. We can talk about that later. But yeah, those were the two teams that I think really fell off. And then conversely, Washington came back. I think because Daniels got healthy was probably the main reason for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2116.034

And then Houston died. And then... Just randomly, their defense came back at some point during that Chargers game, which we're going to talk about in a second. But I think those were kind of the variance teams. I guess the Chiefs might have been the other one because the Chiefs were looking so creaky there. And we were like, this offense, they're just going to be able to score 20 points anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2135.55

And then they gradually figured that out. Everything else just kind of went toward what we thought.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2160.876

Well, one thing on Green Bay, because I want to move to Bills and Steelers. I thought their D was good. And I thought they did a good job today. I thought Jacobs was good. Earl Campbell run, his old jersey coming apart. It's fun. I like Watson as a player, but I don't think it should be a dramatic difference. I like their tight ends, Kraft and Musgrave.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2179.895

I don't know what... I don't remember... I don't know if Musgrave was hurt or if he played or what happened, but...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2201.503

If you pause in a playoff game and the road team is getting the opening kickoff and fumbles on the kickoff. It's almost like the live bet. You almost want to bet everything on the other team no matter. It just feels like the worst omen possible for the rest of the game. But the bottom line is Jordan Love wasn't good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2218.193

And there's probably some reasons for it that have to do with some of the weapons being gone. But he made some really bad throws. And I never felt like last year, especially in the playoffs, it felt like he was elevating. I didn't feel that way at all down the stretch here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2247.838

Let's take one more break and then we'll do Bills and Steelers. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Winning is a great feeling, but let's be honest, it's even better with a prize like Michelob Ultra Superior Light Beer. And that's exactly what you'll get with Play You for an Ultra on DoorDash.

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2268.237

You can challenge your friends to a game racer match and send the winner a Michelob Ultra because Superior is always worth playing for. Participate and play you for an ultra and send the winner an ultra through DoorDash today. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser-Busch McGlobe Ultra Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 or older to order alcohol.

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2291.226

Alcohol available only in select markets. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into. It makes it even better. I love, because we watch a lot of Prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that.

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Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2311.329

I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. All right, so I'm lumping Bill's Broncos and Steelers Ravens together because, This whole season. Cause everyone else did on a teaser.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2333.573

Cause we, we did on teaser. It was the, we call it the anchor tease or the anchor parlay, whatever you wanted. Yeah. My favorite was either these eight or eight and a half point teases you could do with them on a, on FanDuel and basically put anyone else you want, move the line eight points, eight and a half points. It's right around even odds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

235.07

And I don't think, I know you can see it from the video and the pictures, but I don't think you can fully believe how awful this is. So hopefully we can get through it. Hopefully we can rebuild it. Hopefully there's a light at the end of the tunnel here, but right now it's hard to see. So anyway, we're going to talk some football. We're not going to start with Pearl Jam.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2352.792

And it just seemed like a free way to gain eight points with everybody. It won with Tampa. It didn't win with the Chargers. It won with Houston. It won with Washington.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2372.686

Look, there's a lot of storylines for the year. Washington and Jaden Daniels, the Lions, the Vikings coming out of nowhere, the Chiefs going for a three-peat. There's a lot going on. But this Josh versus Lamar thing ended up being the most fun thing to argue about. And as I said earlier, I never thought it got ugly because both guys have been great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2392.593

And what's cool is both guys peaking at the right time. So today, Buffalo rushes 44 for 210. And experimented with putting like the sixth offensive lineman out there as a tight end and just like bully balled their way through the first half. And then Baltimore yesterday, 50 carries for 299. Buffalo had the ball 41 minutes. Baltimore at 39-33.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2420.518

So two teams that love having the ball, running it down your throats, playing each other with two magical quarterbacks who also in the playoffs run the ball more. This is like one of the best games of the decade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2474.245

Denver was going to make us sweat it out in the first quarter. That was just the law. There was just too much. And then I was thinking about if you tease them and Buffalo could win by one, but you still don't cover the tease. There are all these different ways. But then Buffalo was like, we got this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2491.04

I think combining the two of them, I think they're the two best how do you stop this offenses we've had in a while. And I'm not ready to talk about them historically, and one of them might score seven points next week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2506.39

But just when you're watching the moment in these playoff games, now that these quarterbacks don't have to worry about saving their bodies to the playoffs and can actually run and try to do stuff. Daniels was like this too with Washington. I just don't know what the move is when it's like third and four. It's like you almost have to guess what the play is, Tecmo Bowl style. Charge Allen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2528.909

He's still going to stiff arm the first guy, roll out, and try to hit somebody side-armed as he's rolling. And then Lamar is just like, he's like covered in grease. Even if you stop him, he's going by you. So I don't...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

253.719

We're just going to get to the five games. Then we're going to talk California at the end of the podcast. So that's the plan. Here we go. We're taping this a little after 8.15 Pacific time. Definitely the worst week either of us have had since we moved to LA. And we're going to talk about all the awful California stuff later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2566.633

Allen had a play in the first half when he was going around the corner and the guy knew what he was doing. And it was, I think it was a third down and the guy basically beat him to the spot. And Alan just went around him, went down the sideline and got eight, took a guy on, knocked him over too. Instead of like put his Jersey down over the puddle so that Alan could step over it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2587.353

It's getting ridiculous. But, but it's just, both of those guys just have these, oh my God. How do you stop this? Now, Baltimore might not have Zay Flowers next week. That's not nothing. Buffalo seems like they have their full team and they really feel like they've, they've every, I don't know where they got this offensive line from that. You know, we did a lot of prep before the year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2608.776

I remember liking certain things about their team and definitely they had an offensive line was one of the strengths. Now it feels like one of the best three offensive lines in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2630.057

Yeah, he's had like 15 touchdown catchers this year. I guess the difference is Baltimore is built to stop the run. They're really good at it. They're number one in the league. Buffalo is not. So if you're going to say, all right, both of these teams are going to go bully ball, I think Baltimore has a better chance to do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2646.312

Baltimore yesterday, as they broke Pittsburgh's spirit completely and totally, they had that 13-run, 85-yard touchdown drive where they did not pass, which is just a fuck you. Yeah. Honestly. That's just, you're just pulling it out at that point and just, and waving it around like a fucking lasso. 13 runs in a row. Hey, hey, hey, Tom Lynn, have some of this. Like, it's such a fuck you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2670.912

It really is. Like, not one pass. That's just like, you're like, let's break these guys. They're off. Hey, he's telling Harbaugh like, hey, I was thinking about just calling runs over and over again until we score just to fuck these guys. He's like, yeah, do it. Go for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2707.255

Well, we were betting on them over and over again, and they were overachieving and looking great. And the Philly game was when it turned. They got their asses kicked by Philly, and we all said, ah, stayed at the craps table a game too long on that one. It felt like that three days and 11 days, three games and 11 days kind of broke them. I was thinking about possible excuses for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

271.737

We'll start with football and then we'll circle back around because there's a lot to cover on that. But we want to hit the... The football first, as weird as that sounds, Sal. We had four really lousy games and then a really good one. Tampa-Washington. Washington wins their first playoff game in 20 years and it ends up being a doink that puts it over the top.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2727.433

The three days and 11 days somehow didn't break Baltimore, Casey, or Houston. They all gained strength of it, but I guess Pittsburgh could blame it. Russell Wilson maybe is like a house guest that just kind of stays too long. It's like fun to have in the guest room for two months. Yeah. Month three, it's just leaving the fridge open and you're like, oh man, this guy. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2750.579

Gotta get off the couch. All right. Tomlin, 18 years, the 18 year itch. I don't know if that's a, is that a thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2769.003

No. Was that wrong? Yeah. You were wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2772.003

Come on. Well, in the moment, was that wrong?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2776.243

My whole point was they're the best team right now. December or whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2785.048

I'm not blaming you. That's fine. I'm going to wipe my tears. I went 27-5 and over under his handkerchief. Oh, wow. You have that? So I looked at their last six playoff losses for Pittsburgh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2800.958

Gave up 36 points to the Pats. 45 to the Jaguars, 48 to the Browns, 42 to the chiefs, 31 to Buffalo last week. And then, uh, 28 to the Ravens this week, which really could have been more if the Ravens wanted to score more. Tom was supposed to be this like awesome defensive coach. We always talk about the ugly 18 to 16 games in January. It just goes away. What happens?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2861.415

I thought the first two months, I thought they had the best defense in the league. Yeah. As the... DJ Watt got hurt at one point and it never felt like he was totally the same. They had some secondary injuries. But the first two months, they were like the flying around defense. And that... Who was calling him out? Who was the announcer for that Pittsburgh game? It was... Not Collinsworth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2881.855

This week? Oh, it's Herbstreet. Herbstreet, yeah. Was... You know, he's not exactly like Mr. Supercritical. He was like calling them out in the first half. It's like, it's a playoff game. Where's the fight from this team?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2895.328

Something weird happened. I don't know what happened with this team, but whatever we saw the last five weeks was not what we saw in the first three months from them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2922.805

Yes, for the Patriots. The Steelers, they famously only had three coaches in 130 years or whatever the thing is. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I think they go in for the after-the-season meeting with the owner, and they're like, what happened this year, Mike? And he's like, I don't know. We paid $3 million for our quarterbacks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

293.768

That did not make up for the other four games from an entertainment standpoint, but really entertaining. I'm wondering, is Washington this season, they're not the best team, but they're kind of the Daniel Bryan team Uh, Brett hit man heart. Like you always have a good match when you're in a, in a match with Washington. They're one of those teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2957.757

I'm saying J.J. McCarthy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2968.888

No, I would trade for J.J. McCarthy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2971.99

Interesting. Now, if Darnold shits the bed again tomorrow, he might not be available anymore. Right, right, right. Darnold could go from two weeks ago, we were talking about why won't they just pay him now? And now two weeks, safety sucks again. I'd be like, well, at least they have JT.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

2986.794

There's not a ton of options for them. That's not a bad thought. The other guy, they could trade for Joe Milton. I'll send them some week 18 Buffalo Pats game tape. Joe Milton lighting up the Bill's second string, pretending it, you can pretend it was the first string. Chargers, Texans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3019.178

It was AI Shakey's. AI created a Shakey's broadcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3025.331

6-0, charges are up after they just gave away possible touchdowns on two straight drives. The Texans are an absolute mess. Third and 16, they snap the ball over Stroud's head. And it seems like it's either going to be a safety, a touchdown, something great. This is right after the intentional grounding, they don't call.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3044.775

And he picks it up, rolls out, everyone's charger stops, throws it to midfield, and immediately turns it to a different quarterback. And from that point on, the Texans never look back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3088.844

So was that for you? Is that a Houston is so resilient there that nobody believes in us game? Or is that a we might never get there with Justin Herbert game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

311.885

They're not going to win the title, but they've been the most fun team this season, right? They've been in the most fun games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3133.978

Everything was going their way and he still couldn't close the game. Five years, zero playoff wins. He's three games over 500. You include the playoff games, he's one game over 500. I was actually researching quarterbacks who never won a playoff game and the best one ever is Y.A. Tittle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3157.892

Interesting. Had some, was in some big spots, apparently never won one. And then Andy Dalton was the other one. Andy Dalton never won a Shakey's game? Never won. 0 for 5. But the famous one was Stafford. First 12 years, 0-3 in the playoffs, never won anything. So maybe this is a Stafford type thing, but it's really unusual for a guy this talented to, to not win. So you have that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3184.933

And then you have, you know, we used to joke about the Delome. The Delome was, was four picks with a, with the fumble. And then the Delome, the full Delome, I think was five picks with a fumble. And one of them had to be a pick six or something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3220.491

But I think people used to throw interceptions way more in the old days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3226.437

Todd Marinovich had one. Jim Kelly. Richard Todd. Joe Ferguson. Tommy Kramer. The one we watched together, the first Super Bowl we watched together, Tampa, Oakland. Oh, yeah. Rich Gannon, five picks, three pick sixes. So that was, I guess the full Gannon is five picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3248.789

So only three guys have thrown five picks with an interception, DeLome, Gannon, and Kramer. The last two to do it were Brian Hoyer in 2016 and Carson Palmer the same year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3263.401

He did the four with the... He had the pick six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3293.546

I think you move pretty quickly into, I got to get this guy more than one receiver. There's a nerd case for blaming the offensive coordinator and the play calling, but the football nerds love Justin Herbert no matter what he does. Here's the bigger question to me. Quarterbacks you'd rather have for the next eight years than Justin Herbert.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3317.876

So take it to 2033. It's really just that? I'll list them to you and you tell me when to stop. Yeah. Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow. Take all four of those, right? Yeah. Would you take Jaden Daniels?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3355.638

Come on. Let's see a little something else. If the charge is off for Justin Herbert, for Drake May straight up, fuck yeah. What are you talking about? Rather have Drake May in a rookie contract 100 times out of 100.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3372.91

Mayfield.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3376.293

Mayfield or Justin Herbert. He's been in the league since, what, 2017?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3384.458

So you'd go four years, you'd say yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3389.162

Dak, you wouldn't say eight years, but if I said four, you would take Dak for four. I think I would, yes. Darnold?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3407.586

Would you rather have Jared Goff or Justin Herbert? I'd rather have Herbert. Herbert. Yeah. Would you rather have Caleb Williams or Justin Herbert? Herbert right now. Why would I? Yeah. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3421.366

The point of that exercise is as bad as he was in that game and he's never won a playoff game, he's still one of the top 10 QB assets no matter what your preference is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3440.097

I don't love the adversity piece with him. Like when it feels like when the wheels start coming off, it doesn't get better for him. Right. You know, it, it, it feels when it's going good, he seems great. And then that's a whole other goes the other way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3464.912

Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right, let's take a break and then we'll do guest lines. This episode is brought to you by Viore. I love sports. I know you do too. I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear, especially, you know, I do a lot of walking. I walk around LA. I make calls.

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3493.977

I listen to podcasts. Here are two words that will change everything. Viore clothing. a line of active wear that is unbelievable. The best thing about Viore is you can lounge around in it. You can work out in it. You can go outside. You can go shopping down in your local wherever, and you never feel like you're either underdressed or overdressed. You're just comfortable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

350.453

House did not have the cojones to actually take Washington in the ring or Sunday pregame show. He did some bogus Tampa over. It was his way of covering his bases.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3514.762

You can wear it when you're training, traveling, lounging around the house. Go get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing in the planet. Here's the deal. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons. Once again, V-U-O-R-I.com slash Simmons. All right, so we're going to do guess the lines round two. We only have three games that have lines.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3538.589

We're going to come back Monday night after Minnesota and the Rams and do a little short, maybe 25-minute pod where we talk about the game and then guess the line because we like to guess every line. It's not our fault they changed, made it a three-day round one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3582.099

They love Glendale. They love how like middle of the road between the two teams it is for some reason. It's like we put it in Arizona. It's perfectly neutral. The NFL just feels like it's the most neutral territory possible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3595.568

It's not the first time they've went to Glendale. I'm with you. Why not go to Vegas? Go to Vegas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3603.393

Okay. I'll do the AFC games first. All right. Chiefs Texans in Kansas City. The only reason I was scared of Houston in that... I really liked the Chargers in that Chargers game. Houston had a whiff of nobody believes in us. And then you look at them more and you're like, there's a reason nobody believes in you. You guys have sucked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3632.301

The only things that would make anyone believe in you are the models on home underdogs during the playoffs and some of the stuff housed it on the show. There's... gambling nerd metrics that we should believe in you. But from what we've watched from a football standpoint, you guys have sucked. Yeah. So I don't feel bad about missing that as a nobody believes in us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3652.586

But in this game, it's going to kick up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

366.917

I think the Washington fans were believing that they actually had a real chance to win this one. And the line reflected it. It was Tampa by three. But this came down to a couple plays for me. So... Washington, they're down four. And Tampa gets the goal line stand, right? And it goes to fourth and five. There's like, I don't know, less than 10 minutes left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3664.309

You know, the thing with that game, though, I really thought the Chargers offensive line was going to be able to handle the edge rushers on Houston. They have good tackles. And yet over and over again, Houston was coming on the edge and they completely disrupted them. Right, right, right. I just pegged it wrong. Anyway, Chiefs Texans, I have Chiefs by nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3685.049

All right, don't get mad, but I hit this exactly. Seven and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3692.872

So I jacked it up because I thought they would not want us to tease the Chiefs. Mm-hmm. And I thought they'd put it at nine so that even if you teased them, you still had Chiefs minus three. Chiefs seven and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3737.548

Yeah, why are we going crazy about it? I can understand it after week 12, week 13 range when we were really worried about the Chiefs and it really felt like... Or were they 12-1? It felt like they could have been easily 8-5 or 7-6 with five different plays. I like the way they ended the season up until when they didn't have to play anymore. I thought they were more explosive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3758.275

I thought Pacheco, once he came back, that run the ball better. I just liked how they looked more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3780.25

The only case would be the Houston pass rush again. Casey's tackles aren't great. Some sort of dumb Casey first half where they have three points, you know, 20 minutes into the game. And then... Mixon...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3828.97

Bills-Ravens is our second game. I had this all week, battling back and forth between minus two and a half, minus three. And I think I'm wrong. But I have the Bills and Buffalo favored by three against the Baltimore Ravens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3861.841

Oh, you think the Ravens will get the nod? I'm just, every time we're in the 1.5 tic-tac zone, sometimes by Wednesday, all of a sudden it's like, wait a second, Baltimore's favored a Buffalo now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3882.096

Maybe they arrived the same way I've kind of arrived mentally. I like the Ravens. You do? I do. I forgot to do this before. I had this Derrick Henry thing I was going to do with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

389.892

And I always think the team should kick the field goal, take the points, make it a one-point game. Tampa doesn't do it. Fourth and five is a lot when you're inside the 10. I just didn't trust that they were going to get it. I thought it was a mistake. Tampa gets the big stop. They have the momentum going the other way. Fumble. Now we're going back again. Now it's fourth and two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3900.089

I was looking up, I was trying to think of how many guys were awesome from like the first moment they played in high school all the way through and they're still awesome now. Like, I think LeBron's been like that, right? LeBron was awesome as a ninth grader all the way through. He's been awesome for 26 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3919.966

Henry, as a freshman in high school at Uli in 2009, rushed for 2,465 yards and 7.9 yards a carry. He was like 14 years old. He finished his career. He ran for 12,124 yards in high school, 8.7 yards per carry, and 153 touchdowns, right? So he's...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3941.9

I don't know if he's the greatest high school running back ever, but whenever anybody writes that article, he has to be one of the first people mentioned. It's like Emmitt Smith and you go through. You have to have Henry in the first couple.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3958.004

So then he goes to Alabama. They're stacked at running back. He plays anyway. Second year better. And then third year, 2,219 yards, 5.6 to carry. turns pro, and he's rushed for 11,423 yards in nine years. He's had three years where he ran for over five yards a carry, and then another year he was 4'9". This last year, he ran for 5'9 a carry in 1921. It's the second best year of his career.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

3990.18

There's nobody like him. He's a complete 101. We've never seen a running back who does the things that he does. I can't compare him to anybody... we've ever, like there's pieces of like Christian McCoy, Eric Dickerson. I don't know who he is. Yeah. And he's exactly as good as he was when he came in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4007.452

And I don't know how long it continues, but it's weird that we had that one playoffs when we talked about him, when the tight, when the Titans were like nine and eight or nine and seven, and then they made it all the way to the AFC title game. And it was like, Oh my God, it's Derek Henry more valuable than any quarterback. And, That was the only time he had a moment in the sun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4024.142

And now you watch him, especially in that playoff game. And it's like, are we just completely underrated Baltimore? And is this Lamar Henry thing? Are we going to look back at this and think this was one of the most amazing combos we've had in the league this century? Anyway, that's why I like the Ravens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4050.159

But how are you this great as a running back for 15 straight years?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4058.005

He's still unstoppable. He was unstoppable as a freshman in high school. 15 years later, nobody could stop him. It's amazing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4094.943

He's 4'9 per carry for his career. Yeah. And then 5'0 in the postseason. Usually we always talk about running backs. It's like a shelf life of four years, five years, maybe six years. This guy's going to, you know, he's floating around in free agency and people are like, I might be too old. And it turned out he was just on a team that didn't have quarterbacks for four years. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

411.089

And it was like on the 11th, fourth and two, a little more manageable. I was okay with them going in second time, plus there was less time in the game and Daniels delivers, comes through, right? So now Washington's up three. Tampa goes all the way back down. They have this great drive. Baker has a scramble. It's second and one on the 11th. And there's like less than five minutes left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4116.675

I think this guy's one of the all-time freaks. I think Moss was a freak. I think Lawrence Taylor was a freak. We talk about the freak athletes that we've watched since we've been alive and love football. And Henry, it's a short list, but he's definitely on it. He's a one-on-one to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4142.037

Senior year, 13 games, 4,261 yards. Wow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4159.455

But it does, like you see, there's like the videos of Lamar from high school where he has like a couple just freaky... You know, he has that one, that run into the end zone where he just stops and the guy goes by him and he just pauses and then he goes in. And it's just like some of these dudes, they just had it when they were 14. Then there's the late bloomer types.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4179.686

Even Cooper Dijon, have you seen the basketball footage of him? Like doing two hand slams? I don't know. These guys are good athletes. These guys are good athletes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4193.109

No, I just think Henry is one of the all-time freaks since we've been watching football. He's phenomenal. I would put him at the top, top, top freak level of all these dudes. And I wonder, is he the key guy in round two? The reason I brought that up. Is he the key guy in round two, not Lamar? Because the Bills, they're medium-sized. They're not big. I do feel like you can batter and ram them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4217.808

And he just softens them up and then Lamar can do his stuff on the sides. But why did you make this line three if you like Baltimore so much? I was just trying to guess what Vegas would have because I think Vegas really likes the Bills.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4238.206

To me, I want to bet them straight up because there's still the Lamar playoff stuff still makes me a whiff nervous. So I wouldn't want to tie it with another bet. I'd rather tease the Chiefs with one of the NFC teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4260.113

4,241 yards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4262.013

It's crazy. I guess he got hurt for like eight games one year in Tennessee, but there's just no wear and tear at all. He's like a car that has 200,000 miles on it that can still go 200 miles an hour.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4285.565

I was on a text thread about this this weekend. I was saying it's like the kid in the little league world series game, the Cody Webster kid, who's just bigger than everybody else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4294.551

And then that kid grows up and he's, that's the highlight of his life, right? Derek Henry was probably that kid at age eight and he's still that guy now and he's 30. He's been that guy for over two decades. He still looks like you watch and you go, how's anyone tackling this? All right. Third game, Detroit home for Washington.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

430.247

They run this like QB option run with Baker gets stuffed. Then the next play, like fumbled snap, Bucky Irving always tackled four yards behind the line. All of a sudden they're kicking a field goal. And it was like, it just like tush push it. You have first down, first down goal to go. And you have a chance to control your destiny. Then Washington comes back down. Two huge plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4317.404

You know where this is going. It's going right in the Vegas zone for me. Detroit by five and a half. Ooh.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4339.455

We still have to do it for posterity. You don't have to start your guys. You can be like when the Chiefs rest in Week 18. Yeah. You can look up some Derrick Henry High School footage. You can go over that somewhere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4368.913

I think that's ridiculous. I don't understand that at all. With Detroit's defense? Because they look good against Minnesota because Darnold sucked? And sailed like 10 passes. Now we think Detroit's defense is back. They gave up 40 plus points like three weeks before that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4404.767

They get the one seed. They get a week off. They get Washington in round two that just pulled out yet another crazy win, but still has a rookie quarterback. The leap of just thinking mentally of Washington, I know they won 12 games. They're a good team, but just thinking about them in the NFC title game, that seems like a lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4441.824

I think I'd be the most afraid of the Vikings, as crazy as that sounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4445.288

And they might lose tomorrow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4448.21

Don't you think? Because I do think there's a world where those were the two best teams, not just in the NFC, but the whole league potentially. Withstanding the whole Chiefs playoff pedigree and all that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4466.489

He's got two weeks. With the way Hertz looks, I wouldn't be as scared of the Eagles as I would have been four weeks ago. Right. Don't you think? Yeah. I mean, he had 39 yards at halftime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

449.791

That little weird screen pass flick play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4493.217

All right, so we're going to... We'll save the rest of it for tomorrow when we react off. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4513.254

This is great. This could be your first title. This could give hope to Buffalo fans, Minnesota fans, Washington Commanders fans, Lions fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4530.459

How many great high school to their 30s athletes can you think of who were great the entire time all the way through? Because I guess like in basketball, basketball happens way more easy to figure out. Football happens with the quarterbacks, but the running backs and the receivers, I would argue it doesn't really. Emmett was like that. Emmett was awesome. Emmett was great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

455.155

But it was a really nice play. They get it. They go down in the field goal territory. Then that awesome third one by Daniels, which is that was the play of the game. That's why he's special. But Sal, like over and over again in the last like five, six, seven minutes of these games, he's just pulling them out. I'd be scared of them if I was Philadelphia. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4554.601

He was a high school college pro guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4557.562

But other than that, I don't know. So Rudy, are there other guys that I'm not thinking of? How many guys were awesome high school college pros? So we just got to turn his zoom on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4581.178

Yeah. Oh, Peyton's a good one. Was Peyton awesome like ninth grade on?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4590.146

He's still putting up stats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4593.048

He just couldn't beat Florida. Yeah. I guess Randy Moss, but then Randy Moss had to transfer when he was in college and the college went a little sideways for a second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4614.011

So Rudy, when Henry got when he went, fell to the second round after the Alabama season, did that seem like the right range for you or did you think everybody was a big mistake?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4656.414

Well, you know, I was looking at one of those lists where they had the 50 best. Tony Dorsett was apparently one of the great high school running backs of all time. And then he was really good at Pittsburgh too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4666.819

His Cowboys run was probably eight or nine years. Pretty great. Yeah. Yeah. Right in there. All right. Thanks. Suri, who do you like in the title game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4675.504

Oh, wow. What's the line in the Ohio State?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4694.098

Thanks, Rudy. All right. Should we skip parent corner this week and talk California? We could, yes. We should mention that as we're recording this on a Sunday night and we got noticed a couple hours ago that there's like a severe wind thing coming on Tuesday. So... It's hard to say where we're going next, but this was already the worst week since I've been in LA. By far, not even close.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4726.782

One of the biggest natural disasters in American history. And I can't wrap my head around it all of these days later. And you're over in the Manhattan Beach area. I don't know how much you've dealt with some of the areas that were affected when we're talking Palisades and Malibu and Eaton, Altadena were the big four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4746.529

Um, we knew, we knew a lot of people from friends of friends, people, my kids went to school with who lived in different parts. And, and, uh, I, it's, I don't even know how to describe this to people who don't live in California, like the wide swath of devastation. Um, the Palisades just basically being gone, whole parts of Malibu just being gone, eating all to Dina.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4770.344

Like I, I, it's one of those things when you see it, when you watch it on TV, um, and it's happening in other areas and it's like, man, that seems awful, but you don't really fully understand it until you live there. And I don't, I know Ella come back. I know everybody bounces back eventually, but, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4788.806

man, it's really hard to even understand how the rebuilding is going to happen and how long it's going to take. And you just see those wide overhead shots of these different areas. And it's just like, it's just so awful. And it's just been an awful week. And it just feels like it's not going to get better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

482.672

No, and I got all excited. I actually looked this up because I thought it was Washington-Philadelphia before I realized I was confused by the standings. Do you know how many times Washington and Philadelphia have played in the playoffs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4860.461

Yeah, it doesn't seem like it's over yet. We'll see. I mean, we've been here, I've been here since 02 and you've been here a few years before that. And there's been wind events and it's been windy. And I remember over and over again, especially like even taking my daughter to soccer tournaments and it would be like 35 degree, 35 mile an hour winds in Lancaster and stuff like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4882.712

For some reason, these winds seemed a little, they were pointing them out a couple of days before like, hey, this is pretty scary this time around. And then everything that happened was so much worse than you ever, ever could imagine. Even heading through Tuesday, like it was starting the Palisades. And then all of a sudden by mid, early Tuesday night here, you really felt like this could go on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4905.814

in a, in a direction you just never could have been in your worst nightmare imagined. But, um, first responders, fire department, police department, um, the helicopter pilots dropping the water, all the, all the TV people who were out there braving the elements. I mean, that, that one of the things that was, um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4926.331

really inspiring was how many people were trying to get out there, trying to tell us what was going on. And for a lot of people watching TV, not knowing if it was their neighborhood, their house. Um, and it was, you're just relying on all these people, these Twitter accounts, like that LA scanner account.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4942.217

Um, but, and it turned out to be just a 10 out of 10, the worst case scenario that we could have had.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

497.999

One. Really? One. It was the Mark Rippon year. Washington beat them 20-6. When they won the Super Bowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

4998.517

Yeah, I'm going to, I wanted to really kind of dive into it and see which ones I trusted. And maybe on the next podcast could talk about some of the, some of the possibilities. So, you know, some of the stuff's going to get rebuilt. And I'm sure it's going to take a while. There's some other stuff that I don't know how stuff comes back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5018.385

Houses that were from 1940, 1950 that you would never build the same way. And some pieces of California that just had real special characters. Certainly one of the reasons I wanted to live here. Being near the ocean and just some of the coolest parts of the country I'd ever seen. And then on top of it, just...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5039.695

I think losing your house and having no power over that and just knowing all the stuff that you kept and everything's gone. Like I don't, there's very few worse feelings than that. So it's just so much pain and so much heartbreak out here. We try to do podcasts, try to talk football and try to keep people's minds off it for an hour, but it's really, really horrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5060.415

And I really hope we've hit the end of it and that it's not going to get worse. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

507.252

Interesting. That was the only time they've ever played in the playoffs, which is weird because they played twice a year. I would have guessed it was like... And they've been in the league this whole time. I would have guessed... It would have been like eight, seven, ten. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5073.727

Well, that's it. Best of luck to everybody out there. We're really sorry about everything that happened. On one of the later podcasts that we do, hopefully this week, we'll try to have some, maybe even tomorrow when we come back tomorrow for that last game, maybe we can try to figure out a couple of good things that we actually trust and a couple ways to get the word out to try to help people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5093.831

I like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5101.076

I know that was a Monday night. It feels like it was a hundred.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5110.344

So anyway, well, we're really feeling for everybody out there and it's, it's just really heartbreaking. I really come to love LA too. And, uh, you know, it's just, uh, it's just hard to wrap your head around, especially places that you've been to a million times. And now you think, well, wait a second, what's that going to look like now? But hopefully we can all get through this and figure it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5134.252

Sal? I will see you tomorrow night. Let's do it tomorrow. Good job by you, Billy. Good job by you. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal for producing. You can watch this video on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel as well. And we will see you on Monday night. Please, everybody, stay safe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5152.423

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

5173.695

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

559.694

What did you think of Tampa potentially going for a down three with like four minutes left? That would have been like a fourth and three after they got stuffed twice. Yeah, it was like fourth and three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

588.268

Well, especially the end of the first half when he was mismanaging everything and somehow they scored anyway. I thought they should kick the field goal. And yet when they kicked the field goal, I thought Washington was going to come down and get the game-winning field goal. It was weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

601.531

I didn't think they should go for it, but I also thought they were going to lose because they didn't get those two plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

61.022

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Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

611.62

I tried to order Vita Vea at Peter Luger's. They didn't have it. I mean, big picture. And we know a lot of Washington fans. This was the official fuck you Dan Snyder game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

626.408

You know, not, it was one thing. It's a cute story. They had a Hail Mary. They got into the playoffs. Yeah. You know, Dan Quinn, it's a family atmosphere. They have a front office that actually knows what they're doing. Adam Peters, like they've turned the organization around. That makes them look bad enough. But now you have this awesome playoff win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

644.65

Now they're playing Detroit, a team that doesn't have the most awesome defense, at least until week 18 when they look pretty good against Minnesota. But Darnold also left a lot of throws. If I'm Washington, I feel like I can go in there and at least match points with Detroit. Who the fuck knows, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

683.519

Well, you knew somebody was going to get screwed with the Sunday to Saturday. I guess it would be worse if it was the Monday game. But yeah, first playoff win in 20 years. And like, you know, the Patriots hired Mike Vrabel this weekend, which was felt like it was headed that way for five days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

698.629

But I was getting intel that it was getting a little hairy on Friday night and Chicago was making a run at him. And, you know, and you think like, oh man, if we don't get him and we don't get better, all of a sudden we're looking at the Pete Carroll range of guys. But they get Vrabel, they have Drake Medealvo, there's Capspace, they have the fourth pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

718.462

And, you know, they had probably one of the worst rosters in the league, if not the worst. They're in a division with Buffalo. There's all these reasons not to believe. But I watch a team like Washington. I'm like, they turned it around in a year. That team was a fucking, you know, shit can. And they drafted the right quarterback. They changed the coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

735.875

They brought in a really good coaching staff. And all of a sudden they have 13 wins. So it's not like they're like a nine and 18 that snuck in. Like this team's won 13 times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

770.896

You need the coach, you need the QB. And I can kind of figure out everything else, right? But if I don't have those two things, where am I going? And you need at least like a solid coach, maybe better than that. And you need a top 10 QB potentially. And now they have the two things. And now they can try to build their roster. But I thought the way Washington did it was the blueprint.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

791.969

They had a lot of really smart second-level free agent signings, kind of going after the B-list guys, like the best of the B-list, and they spent a lot of money on their coaching staff. So it seems replicable. The Pats have a really super easy schedule. Anyway, I was inspired by Washington. The difference is Daniel's in his mid-20s. He was in college for...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

80.849

I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

842.473

and hopefully Drake may can get there well I'm hoping now I thought I mean I've talked about Vrabel a bunch of times on the pod I just felt like he was hands down the best coaching candidate available we'll see with Ben Johnson but there's a big difference between calling plays and actually having to run a whole team and build a whole culture I think I thought Tampa Washington was the hardest game to pick who'd you have in that game

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

872.953

What'd you do? I just, I had all those, I never did million dollar picks this week, but I had all those anchor teasers with Buffalo and Baltimore, eight, eight and a half point teases. So Green Bay covered by half point. The Tampa covered today. I had a lot of trouble with the Chargers lost yesterday. I had a lot of trouble with Washington-Tampa because I like the same thing about both teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

896.169

I like their offenses. I like the way their quarterbacks were playing. And I thought that both of them were really these close-knit teams. You know, I was reading the stories about Tampa heading into the out of the week 18 and like that Mike Evans play that we were joking about last week about, oh my God, that was kind of risky to go for it, to go for a thousand yards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

916.447

You have the game, you're like the playoffs are on the line. And you read the stories about it and guys were saying it was like the highlight of their careers. Like they all love Mike Evans. And they were like, this record meant a lot to him. He got hurt. He didn't think he was going to be back in time to try to break it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

931.716

And there was just all this stuff and you could just feel the love coming out of that. They love Baker Mayfield. They play hard for him. So I was like, man, this is almost two teams. I wish these two teams were playing two other teams so I could pick both of these teams. It was one of those because everything you read about Washington is the same thing. Dan Quinn, he's turned the vibes around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

952.888

The mood is completely different. And they end up winning the mood ball, I guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

97.761

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Round 1 NFL Reactions With Cousin Sal

987.164

I had written down, because there seemed like they were going to possibly win at one point. I was researching them. They had a case for being the best 2020s NFC team. And they still might have the case even now. Because they're one of the only two NFC teams that won a Super Bowl. They've had four division titles. They were 6-3 in the playoffs heading into this game today.

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The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

0.229

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The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1032.23

I don't know if I still would, even if they got to the finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

106.457

We're going to talk about it next. First, our friends from Pro Jam. All right, taping this top part of the podcast here. It is 7.30 Pacific time. We're doing that during the Cavs-Pacers game because that game ended about an hour ago, even though they're still playing it right now. And James Johnson just came in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1078.435

And I think that's, but that's why the comparison is back to, but that's why the 2014 Spurs, that's what made me think of, That's what this feels like a little bit, if that's how it played out. Because remember, Duncan's at a slightly different stage of his... He's at the telltale end of a really great career as a guy who could be a 35-minute-a-game guy for somebody. Kawhi wasn't Kawhi yet.

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1103.233

And Parker was probably the most talented guy in the team in terms of where he was in his career. Diaw's there. Ginobili's older. But the team made sense when you saw everybody together. And I think Indiana has a little of that. The team kind of makes sense when you watch them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1119.211

And I do think they have... Even though they're not a traditional awesome defense, they do... Neesmith's a really good defender. If you're just throwing him on whoever the best perimeter guy is on another team, you can feel pretty good about that. They hit threes, and they're deep. And they really like to play with each other, and they really...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1142.054

I feel like have an identity, which is all I'm looking for when we get to mid-May. Do you have an identity? And that's what's weird about Cleveland is, what's your identity now? Because you're not great on defense. You're very Mitchell heavy. I'm not positive who your best five guys are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1164.859

But who's the fifth guy, though? It's kind of a big thing because you have two bigs and two smalls.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1208.977

I don't know. I watched him toe to toe against Indiana and I just, it's not like I'm like, whoa, there's so much talent. It's not like the Celtics Knicks series where you're like, what's going on? The Celtics have a better team than the Knicks. How is this happening? I don't know if I feel that way when I'm watching Cavs Pacers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1263.63

It's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It was why I liked them as a possible finals team, because I felt like they had all the things I was looking for, except for I wasn't positive who the fifth guy is. But I like Struis. It's like, all right, if he's your fifth guy, he's going to have to make some big shots in the corner. I feel like he could maybe do that. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1320.107

Oh, just trying to figure out my five. I start with Pritchard. Oh, I see. Probably Tatum second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1330.25

Pritchard. Are you ready for Pritchard versus TJ McConnell in the ESPN commercial?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1340.155

Look, man, that's like one or two every three minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1356.702

Right. Well, All right, so like you mentioned, I think later in the pod, you mentioned the 64 wins Suns team that just got waxed. We had those Hawks teams in the mid 2010s. Like we've seen successful teams crater at the wrong time in the playoffs. And every time it's confusing. The bigger question to me is after it happens, is there a road back?

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1382.388

Because the only time I can think of a road back where the road actually came back was that Spurs, the Ray Allen shot. And then they came back and they even think like, Oh man, that's it. They're never coming back from that. And then they came back the next year, the Celtics in 20, uh, three Miami, uh, losing the first three where it's like, that's it. Blow this thing up. This is a wrap.

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1407.264

Then they came back and they won the next three. It's like, all right, what is up? Tatum got hurt in game seven. Maybe we just need to trade Marcus Smart and Grant Williams and, you know, fix around the edges. But normally when it goes bad like this and you really take a shit in a series, it usually doesn't come back. Like that's usually...

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1429.198

we look back and be like, ah, when they start making like a big trade two years later, we're like, ah, we should have known because that series in 25 when that Pacers game, like we should have known that was when we knew that that nucleus wasn't going to work.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1452.97

Artificially inflated 60. I just don't think they were that good. Yeah. Well, they were, Compared to when you look at the net rating, points per possession, all that shit, they were not at the level of what this Cavs team was. But, you know. Didn't they win like 64 games one of those years, though, or 62? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

146.94

The Pacers, 25 assists in the first half, which is a number I did not know was attainable. And they absolutely ran Cleveland off the floor. And just when you thought it couldn't get worse, the third quarter started and Donovan Mitchell was nowhere to be seen because he apparently hurt his ankle. And the Cavs are now down 3-1, heading back to Cleveland for game five.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1485.41

We got a lot. We got a lockdown, uh, Joe Johnson still trying to get an interview with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1496.135

So did you ever go on the radio and say, I think they could upset LeBron or were you always like, I've never taken this seriously ever at any point?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1545.242

Well, and then you have the squandered opportunity of whether the Celtics come out of this round two series or not. Either way, it's going to be a six or seven gamer with some attrition. And then Cleveland would have the home court in that one. And Boston's the team they've always played well against. And Mitchell's always done well against the Celtics. Now you're like, well, we blew.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1565.498

Like, what if the Knicks end up beating the Celtics? I'm like, we could fucking play the Knicks in round three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1579.181

How healthy do you think Garland is? Give me a percent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1618.977

You didn't look, this didn't was, I wouldn't say he was skipping around a hundred percent, but he wasn't bad. He wasn't compromised. Certainly what it didn't really affect either way. Um, I thought it was more of the Pacers were just extraordinary and also really seem to think they can be equivalent. That was another lesson in this game. They were like, we're fucking beating these guys today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1643.158

This is happening. We're beating these guys. And I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

165.852

And the Pacers have completely, thoroughly, totally, and unequivocally outplayed them and have momentum. And this is now looking really dangerous, not just for this season, Rosillo, for the Cavaliers, but big picture. If you get wiped out like this by the Pacers, I'm not sure what you do heading into the summer. And I'm not even sure what the fixes are.

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1717.204

I stand by that. It was a regular season vote. I voted for Big Jim Harden over him. Yeah, it's a regular season vote. Do I feel great about it? Not especially. Not right now? No. I don't feel awesome. I'm not going to high-five myself with Bear afterwards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1764.349

what's the weirdest possible finals we can have that actually might happen now is it indiana and minnesota golden state in minnesota or excuse me well what's the weirdest possible well weirdest possible that could actually happen like that could actually happen yeah indiana minnesota is a finals that could actually happen wouldn't denver pacers be weirder

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1788.393

I mean, the ABA part would be weirder, but Jokic being in the finals. I'm just trying to picture like a finals that people in our life who don't really follow basketball, like my mom, like who's in the finals this year. And I'm like, it's Indiana against Minnesota. And she's like, what? Or my wife. That's one of those. Yeah, Minnesota has this guy, Anthony Edwards. He was in an Adam Sandler movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1809.33

And Indiana just has a bunch of guys you've never heard of, but they're really fun to play or fun to watch. And that's going to be our finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1839.801

It's all connected. By the way, you know who would be a really good finals?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1869.635

Like due for just like a completely wacko... Yeah, are we just due for one of these?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1886.549

I have the conference odds from right before round one in Indiana, I thought was a great bet. And I actually had that in my picks. Indiana was 28 to one to win the East, which I thought those are like just great odds. I don't not saying it's going to happen. It's just 28 to one playing Milwaukee in round one. It's just good odds. Minnesota was 20 to one. to win the West. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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190.911

And maybe you look at it and you take a breath. And you go, all right, just wasn't our round, I guess. Let's run it back. We won 64 games. I find it hard to believe that's how it would play out because this is really bad how this has played out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1911.475

And if you looked at that one, kind of the same thing where you go, all right, well, if they get through round one, they're playing the winner of Houston Golden State in round two, they could potentially win that. And then who knows? They, they love playing OKC. But anyway, 28 to one versus 20 to one would be a very, very high parlay. If you did that one on Fandle. Denver was 15 to one, by the way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1936.34

yeah so maybe some momentum uh cleveland was plus 185 to win the conference and the celtics were minus 145 and the knicks were 12 to 1 some tough minutes all right uh and i'm way more nervous about the celtic game now since we did the pod since which hasn't even been on this the people listening we haven't even gotten to that yet it's about 40 minutes from now but i started thinking about

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1963.444

This Indiana game made me now nervous. You always think you know what's going to happen again. It's like game four. It's going to be a slugfest. Everyone's going to show up. Then I watch this. I'm like, all right, now I'm nervous again. I don't know what to expect anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

1986.175

Right. Mainly because it feels like they kind of broke the calves. I think that was the more impressive part. It broke me a little bit. Whoa. It's like one of those football games where you think the Cowboys lose 47 to 17 in round one. You're like, Oh my God, you didn't just lose. Like, I don't even know what you should do this summer now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2004.167

Um, all right, before we go to break, did you see the movie not as on Netflix?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

2026.093

Brenda Vaccaro. I had no idea. My wife and daughter just wanted to watch it on Friday night. I had no idea. I was getting Dr. Melfi. I was getting Adrian Balboa. I was getting, I don't know, was she Thelma or Louise Susan Sarandon? I haven't seen it yet. One of those. I'm just in Thelma and Louise. I can't remember which one she was. But yeah, interesting movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

2048.994

Made me think that stunt casting still works. I really liked it. Thumbs up. Nona's. Thumbs up. Thumbs up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

2067.972

Yeah, Staten Island Italian restaurant movie. I decided I like all food movies too. I was trying to think of one that, I even like Burnt with Bradley Cooper. I love Chef with Jon Favreau. The movie? Big Night. Hot Dog movie was not a food movie. It was a skiing movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

2093.078

chef you said you like chef a lot chef do you like the bear a lot you like the bear a lot right enjoy the bear bear's coming back mid uh mid-june they'd be dumping them all at once a lot of overhead film two seasons at once apparently uh we're gonna take a break did you get any feedback for your star wars cameo in the star wars rewatchables

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And, um, I had somebody say to me, you definitely rigged that with Ursula. Everybody thinks that he was too ready for it. I was like, I promise you there was no rigging. We have no idea if he's ever going to pick up the phone and I never tell him I'm calling or what the movie is.

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All right. We're going to take a break, come back and talk rest of the playoffs. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant. Remember last year, people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula? One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? Degree listened. They admitted they messed up.

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm president of select states. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. Coming up.

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They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent, and thank God. You've got to love when a brand can own its mistakes, and it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores right now for under $4. Grab some. Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers.

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The original degree cool rushes back, and it smells like victory for all of us. Happy Mother's Day out there to all the mothers who are not watching right now. I think it's the hardcore sports fans. I have my mother-in-law and my mother in my house right now who don't understand why I had to record a podcast with my guy, Ryan Rosillo.

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But listen, OKC Denver game four, there was a lot of things going on. That game moved to a whole other level of storylines, things I was just really intrigued by, things I wanted to find out, answers I needed. and I'll start here. We're solo, uh, really hard for Denver to score against a team as incredible defensively as OKC.

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And I don't know how they're going to win two more of these, what OKC was doing defensively, especially in the fourth quarter. Um, I thought was pretty bonkers. It's pretty, pretty, pretty high level. And it made up for all their weird offensive stuff. It's just when they want to get stops, it just feels like it's like a miracle when you're scoring against them. So that was my biggest takeaway.

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It was worse to watch than the score, which was an awful score. The actual shots and the way people were missing and how far off everything was, it was like eight points felt like a miracle. I was like surprised Denver had eight points.

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What was he said? He said, this is basically a back to back. And this is what, when we were talking on Friday, we were like, I mean, that game Friday was just immense. And we were like, God damn, they have to play Sunday afternoon after that? Because it felt like two playoff games on Friday.

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Well, here's what we found out. I mean, we could cover each team. What we found out with Denver is they're down to six guys and one of them was Westbrook who could not make a shot today, right? And was basically, they weren't even guarding him. Pick Strother and Watson were the two that played. The Watson minutes will not be released as a 4K HD DVD. I don't think anytime soon.

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Jokic looked just like they were just beating him with a two by four and they were doing exactly what they should be doing against him. They're trying to wear him down. It was so hard for them to get good shots that when they got a good shot, there was that shot Murray made in the fourth quarter when he went to his left, did a hop step and got like an open 15 footer.

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And it was like, wow, they got space on a jump shot. Like it was like celebration. The thing that was crazy to me about OKC in the fourth quarter is Dort wasn't out there for like the last five or six minutes who I voted for defensive player of the year. And they're playing defense like that. And they don't even have him out there.

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But when you think they just come in waves with... I thought Wallace was great today. Dort, Caruso, the Hartenstein and Holmgren combo, just ridiculous on Jokic. You think he goes from last year, the Gobertowns, Nas, just like some twosome of that the entire series to whatever's happened in this one. It's just... It's a lot, man.

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My big takeaway was like, I think OKC is better defensively than anyone else is at anything. would be how I would say it. It's like when we talk about football and we're like, so-and-so's defense is the best thing anyone's got going right now. And it feels like that way with OKC.

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I think you're right. But I'm also stunned that it was this much of an ass kicking today because usually game four is the... Like what we watched, which we're going to talk about later in the podcast, that OKC Denver game, where both teams kind of realize the stakes in the moment and... what needs to happen.

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Yeah, I thought... It's weird. You almost have to work backwards because they have six guys who could belong out in crunch time, right? And Caruso is kind of the odd man out in the fourth quarter of game three. Then they're trying to, you would almost think after, especially after watching the game today, you could talk me into Dort replacing Jalen Williams.

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And Jalen Williams, if he's going to be what he was offensively in this game, I voted for him 13 ball NBA, by the way. But there's a version of them where they just go the two bigs, SGA, Dort, and Caruso, and that's it. And they just try to lay the defense down as much as they can. Those are good problems to have, but the big thing that happened today was... SGA was okay.

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I think he had three shots. It was the fact that Denver just couldn't score. I think that was the most shocking piece to me. They always figure out how to get shots. I didn't like the shots they were getting. We always talk about that with Denver. I just like the shots. I like the decisions. I trust the process.

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Well, you'd think like, Game six, game seven against the Clippers series, right? Those were, I think, one day off between those. Then went right into this series. They had a really tough game one, get killed in game two, game three Friday night.

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There's a level of intensity and there's a caring that usually exists in a game like this. And from Cleveland, from the get-go, you didn't see it. They weren't rotating on defense. They were just getting sliced and diced on that 3-2 zone. I think the thing that really stands out to me beyond just the talent and whether this might not be a great matchup for Cleveland, Indy's feisty.

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And this one, I don't know if some of it is fatigue with Jokic from the burden that he has, but I think what was interesting about what, and I don't even know how to define this. They sped him up by like, fifth of a second with like his touch, maybe a fourth of a second, maybe a sixth of a second.

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His touch around the rim, which is usually one of the things that's so crazy when you watch him, you're like, fuck, how does he make these all the time? How does he make these spinning eight footers? How does he make these ones where he's going toward the basket? And how does the ball just always bounce around the rim and go in for him? What does he do? And they somehow fucked that up.

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And now when he's saying it's like hard back of the rim or it's short or it's like, you know, or sometimes it's just off the backboard. But they did something to him. I'm really interested to see if he can solve it because I think he's the best offensive player I've seen since early 2010s LeBron at least. And they've done something to him that they've sped him up and fucked him up.

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And now when he takes open threes, they don't seem like they're going to go in, which is where he was in the Minnesota series when that went sideways too. The difference here is that

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when you have a six-man team and a couple of those guys are not guys who can create their own shot really under any circumstance, if he's not going to shoot a little bit better, I just don't see how they get to 100 points for Sillow. Like that under being 227 was nuts. We should have bet the house on that one.

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I just said maybe they benched Jalen Williams down the stretch. It was pretty ridiculous. I voted for a 13-ball NBA. I think that is ridiculous. Here's why I said that, though, because I thought this was an absolute, absolute must-win. Must-win gets thrown around too much. He's your second-best player. He has to be out there.

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But I'm saying if I'm in the fourth quarter of this game four and I know I have to win, at some point with six minutes left, I'm like, I don't care whose feelings I hurt. I need to try to win this game now. And I have six options and I'm just going to go. So anyway, I wouldn't have been surprised if they did it. But that's how important I thought this game was to them.

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Because especially as a younger team, you know, you go down 3-1 in the series, you can't finish these 50-50 games where you've already lost two in the series, right? Denver's 4-0 in these. And I just felt, I felt like OKC had to have this. I didn't feel like Denver had to have this. I felt like OKC did.

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It's too risky. I'm with you. I'm just I went through the thought process. It's too risky long term with it. But and you're also removing nothing was working for them, though.

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They play with a real chip on their shoulder. They've done that all year. They love playing really good teams or teams with great players, like with the Lakers, the Celtics, like whoever it is. They really come out with their chest puffed out. They try to start shit. They're agitators. They have a real personality to them. And they kind of know who they are. They have a real identity.

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Porter was, yeah, 0 for 5 from three today. Watson was 0-2. Westbrook's airball was the biggest one in the game. And then on the OKC side, Dort was 2-10. Holmgren 0-3. Williams was 0-5. Jalen Williams. Jalen Williams was 2-13 in that game.

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Pretty rough. And then Isaiah Joe came in to give them some heat check threes and went 0-3. But the Jokic thing... He spins around and there's another guy waiting for him. When he does the thing where he tries to back down and he backs down and he can either throw it out or spin in, they're sending these guys to his blind side like little rocket ships. So now he's worried about those guys too.

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So he can't do it the same way. And it all goes to what you said. It's like watching a football team. It's like when the Ravens had the Derrick Henry year, when teams would load, they would just do eight-man fronts and he would still run through them. And then at some point in the playoffs, teams were like, how about an 11-man front? Are you going to run through that?

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How about we put everybody up on the line? Can you run through this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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that's kind of what they were doing i thought to yokich but i still listen we both watch a ton of yokich like his touch has not been greater on the the stuff that he's made all year he's not making and he's missing wide open threes and it's just this is not the best version of him and i don't want to make excuses for him um because i think he could play better and i think he looked really frustrated down the stretch where he was doing the sinking shoulders i can't believe i missed that

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And for whatever reason, Cleveland feels like it's losing its identity as these playoffs go along. It's like, what is this team? Allen had a 19-12 in Game 3, and in Game 4, he got buried in the first half as that went sideways. But they have the Garland piece, which I know he's been hurt. I know his stats are okay today, but he looks... Okay, not great.

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He just is a little discombobulated. So kudos to them because they figured out how to disrupt one of the best offensive players we've ever seen.

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Three pointers, by the way, 10 for 41 for OKC, 11 for 45 for Denver. But to Jokic, he can make some more of those. Yeah, he could. No, I don't think Denver's done in the series by any means. I think this would have been way more dangerous for OKC.

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As a young team where young guys aren't playing well, and now you're down 3-1, and now it turns into 48 hours of everybody just dissecting them, which can go either way. Sometimes it can raise the team's level. Sometimes it can tighten the sphincters.

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I think I'd lead with the Denver piece of it. I just think it's so incredible that they won two of those first three games. They stole game one. Just an outright theft. And then game three, which I think you and I both loved. Denver's just, you know, that was just the, we used to be the champs and we've been in a few of these rodeos and we kind of know what we're doing. It was one of those games.

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The physicality of it was ridiculous. It was an awesome game. Friday was a hardwood classics NBA TV showing it in August, and I'll probably end up watching the fourth quarter in the OT. This game will never be seen again. Nobody will ever watch this game. And SGA, I think that they've disrupted him in all these different ways, much like OKC has disrupted Jokic. This is the best I've ever seen

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a team defend his drives. Um, they're ready for his herky jerky stuff. They never give up on him because he loves doing that hockey move where he kind of drives through and he brings it back up. Then he cuts back in. They're always ready for that. Um, so when you think like they've only had six guys, uh, And one of them has this giant bandage on his shoulder and it's unclear how hurt he is.

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Like, it's pretty impressive. But, you know, ultimately your season comes down to stuff like Russell Westbrook's going to be wide open in the corner and he's going to airball a three that you needed because... You had to have Russell Westbrook out there. As good as he's been as a bench guy. But that's kind of the difference when you get to this level. It's a couple of plays.

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But you would think like they're equipped to fill in if he's hurt or playing 80% because of how deep their bench is. And then the bench didn't show up. And then Mitchell basically was superhuman in game two and three, right? He did so much, like his body ended up breaking down from it. It just feels like if these teams played 20 times, I'm not sure how it would go for Cleveland.

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Is he getting to the free throw line as much? There's one difference, though. Playoff officiating versus regular season officiating. These games are just more physical. And there's been times when watching them during the season, he would get calls that I don't think he's getting the same calls. And by the way, I don't think Jokic is either.

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I just think it's the playoffs and everything's physical. Everything's physical from the first quarter on. And you're just not going to get away with as much. So the stuff that he used to get away with in the paint and it would get to the line, it doesn't feel like it's happening the same way anymore.

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I mean, he had 18 in an OT game on Friday. He had 25 today, but some of those were coming at the end. It just doesn't seem like it's as easy. But he's also going against a team that certainly we did not see this kind of defense from Denver during the season. That's been the other story here. This team fired their coach with a week to go in the season, basically.

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Their effort was spotty back and forth. And to watch them just turn into the team like, oh, hypothetically, they could be this, but it'll never happen. And then to watch how hard they're playing. It all starts with Gordon, who's been, I think, the biggest winner of the playoffs from a career standpoint. I just think he's being discussed differently now, don't you? I love him. But I also love him.

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Is he our approval rating guy this year? No, I'm saying, yeah, there's a bunch of guys, but is he the 100% approval rating guy of the 25 playoffs? Like, who's zagging on Aaron Gordon at this point? Everybody's like, all in. Mr. Nugget. Mr. Clutch. One of the great... Maybe Orlando's staff.

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So I can't decide if this is a bad matchup. Could this have happened if they played Milwaukee? Big picture, what does this mean? Was this like a mid-2010s Atlanta Hawks type team? Is there a road back for them? I'm swimming with questions and I have no answers.

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Like, it's just funny to think back at that draft and how much time we spent on those three guys wondering what the possible ceilings were of each guy. And then it feels like Paolo and Chet are going to probably hit the ceiling of whatever we expected. I love how competitive he is. We knew Hartenstein was in there because of the playoffs last year. We got a glimpse of it.

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But you never know with some of these guys until they're thrown into the fire like this. I just think going against Jokic... just knowing that dude's lurking for two solid weeks, right. And to not get in foul trouble and to just battle him and you just have to battle him. That's the only way to do it. You're not going to beat him. You're not going to shut him down. You just have to fight him.

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And I, I just think he's, he's shown more fight than maybe even I thought he had. And I was a big fan of his really like just both of those guys are just traded haymakers with this guy. Who's this fucking monolith. You know, it's impressive. Anyway, what was your question?

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Great question. Came to the right place. As you know, I'm a spiteful guy. I'm guessing he has a lot of relationships and the answer would depend, well, you know, relationships with these guys. The answer would depend on whether he thinks Jokic nudged him out or not. Whether they just told Jokic they were doing it or they cleared it with Jokic. Like if Jokic had a chance to defend him or not.

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And if he feels like Jokic had his back or not would be the answer. My guess is Jokic probably was like, whatever. Hey, we got a new coach. It's going to be that guy's cool. I don't care. It might've been one of those. But it also might've been, hey, we're thinking of doing this. If you don't want us to do it, tell us now.

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count to 10 you don't have to say yes or no just count to 10 like the Watergate when they call yeah the end when they call Watergate about is that the final guy on the list and maybe he just didn't stick up for him so I don't know what do you think no I don't know that against them

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You know what, he's definitely kind of rooting against them. I think he is. My answer is yes, the more I'm thinking about it. You know, there's a youth parent phenomenon when your kid plays on a team and then somebody comes in and plays their position and you're supposed to be rooting for the team and you're rooting for everyone to do well.

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But at the same time, you're like, all right, don't do too well in this spot. Like you just, it's human nature.

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Do you feel any differently about them than you did 10 days ago?

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My answer is both. I'm actually more impressed with OKC's defense than I expected it to be because I think it's one thing to be a great regular season team, but to watch their playoff defense be even maybe a little bit more impressive. So yes on that. But that's not surprising to me.

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Was that that year? Wasn't that the year after, 17? That was Durant's first Warriors year, right? That 16 team, that was that weird NBA season where there weren't a lot of good teams that year. Remember? And they did... They did well, but it was, you know, we weren't ever really... It was always the Warriors year. It always seems like it was going to be the Warriors and the Cavs.

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But there was this last level of like, all right, now what's going to happen when you're going against this Jokic-Murray gauntlet when you're down 2-1 in a series game? what, what level can you go to? And they, they just answered my questions there. Yeah.

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I just, I didn't think, I think if there was one thing, I'll be honest, like Chet against Jokic as we have to shut down Jokic with these two guys. And one of them's Chet. I didn't think Chet was going to be big enough to handle him. And I think he's shown over the last couple of games with Hartenstein that, that maybe he can, um, the Jalen Williams piece, um,

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is the piece I'm more lukewarm on than I was. And he was awesome on Friday. I thought he had a really good game and, and actually kind of, if they won the game, he would have probably been the biggest reason, but it, you know, when you're the second guy and we saw, we saw this happen with, uh, Jalen Brown last year, when you're the second guy.

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And sometimes you also have to resemble the first guy every once in a while for a team to really achieve. It's what are you like taking numbers?

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Well, that second guy I think has to be more than a second guy sometimes if you're going to win four rounds. And Jalen got to that point last year. I think the best example is Pippen from 90 to 91. Now 90 ends the worst way possible with the migraine in the game seven. But he just in general wasn't quite

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4273.422

ready yet and then in 91 that whole season especially down the stretch was awesome and then went to that Laker game and was like just such an additive asset game after game and went after Magic and like what he did to the Pistons he was just awesome and it was consistently awesome and I'm sure people go on the basketball reference like no it was 3 for 10 in game 3 it's like I'm telling you Pippen went up a level and you could see it and Jalen Williams I can't tell if he's a year away from that or not because I think it's in there but

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4304.568

Friday night versus today, like that swing for four rounds against the wrong team that might, cause I don't, if it's not him, I don't know who the third guy is who can create offense for them. They're just swinging the ball around, you know, that I just don't see it. And I think they're going to end up in a lot of these under a hundred games where the defense is going to carry them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4325.432

And maybe it'll be more like a 99 Spurs type of situation where your defense is so awesome. That's how you win. So I'm a little more scared on that side, but the defense has been so good, I think it evens out. The coach too, by the way, I thought his game one was bad. Hasn't been in a lot of these, but I thought he blew game one. I just thought he did a couple of dumb things.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4348.406

I think this is going seven, Russillo. Yeah, it feels right. Also, I thought it was notable that OKC was favored between six or seven for this game today. In Denver. Yeah. Coming up for Friday night. Because Vegas, like with the Celtics, Celtics are down 0-2 and Vegas is like, Celtics by six, still have a favorite for the series, right? Yeah. Whoever, FanDuel, name whoever's setting the line.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4374.575

This Denver OKC one, people are like, eh, still think OKC's got it, which I thought was notable. We're going to take a break for the podcast. Our guy, Anthony Edwards. That was... Here's what I think was the tough one for Golden State. I actually really liked how they played. I thought they played hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4396.141

That's about as good of a game three, at least for three plus quarters as you're going to get from a team without Curry. And there were multiple times where it felt like they were going to bump the lead up to 10 or 11. It was always five or six. And it felt like every time they had a chance to put a cushion, Ant would hit a three. Somebody would miss a layup. Somebody would come back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4418.114

And Minnesota hung around, hung around, hung around. And then and then killed him in the end. But Ant, I thought, had some really big shots and some control of the game stuff. And then Randall, this has now hit the point with Randall that I think he might opt out. We went from thinking like, yeah, I'm in for $30 million again next year. I've exercised my poor option. I'm in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4443.228

I think he opts out now. He's been that good, right? Why would he opt into one year 30? He's going to be able to get more than that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

45.287

An action-packed weekend of NBA playoff basketball. Rasul and I broke all of it down. And lottery karma rankings next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch of what's coming for you Tuesday. Not Monday, Tuesday. We did Death Wish with Charles Bronson because it is a big-ass 70s month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4507.01

Right. It's funny. I actually thought they were going to win in the fourth quarter. Did you? Cause it just, cause the, the getting a random comingo, just going nuts game on combined with what Butler did for the first two and a half quarters. It was like, man, if they're ever going to win a game, this has to, this is the blueprint for how they would win a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4524.016

But, um, that they can't figure out the Randall piece. It's really interesting. Um, What a mismatch he's been these first two rounds. where you've seen teams go, fuck, you know, and he knows it. And I think it's the smartest, most deliberate, but not too slow, not ball stoppy, like the right level of picking his spots and taking advantage of certain mismatches. I really like watching him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4552.222

And he used to be, if he wasn't my least favorite player to watch, he was in the top three. But I've really enjoyed watching him in the playoffs. And I think this team kind of knows what it is. The part that I don't really understand is what they're getting from Conley. the fact that he's been better than I thought he was going to be. I thought he had some really good defensive stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4569.879

Like that key play of the game, he played excellent defense. I forget who it was. It was maybe Kaminga. Excellent defense where it led to that fast break where they had Gobert as the trailer, as the dunk, which was basically the play of the game. Was that the late shot clock? Yeah, and strip Kaminga. But it all started because Conley was able to actually play defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4587.773

And Conley was somebody that in December, January, we were wondering like, What were they going to do with this? Like, were they going to just bail on him? Like, that's how bad he was looking. And now he's looking pretty good. But, you know, it's a bummer. Do you think if Curry plays, do you think they're better or no? Wait.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4607.162

You think they can win this with healthy Curry the whole time? Oh, the whole time? Who would you... After watching these games without him, would you still take Minnesota?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4719.081

I had Minnesota in six. And I think even after watching this without Curry, I'd probably... I don't think that would have changed. Um, Golden State feels like one and a half guys short, right? And that, the reason I say one and a half instead of two is because that weird roster they have, you can get the random out of nowhere half from somebody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4738.509

But for the most part, it still feels like they're short. And, uh, they can't survive terrible Draymond games with or without Curry. He was awful last night. Um, he was really sloppy with the basketball. Um, I thought Randall went right at him a couple of times. It was kind of shocking. And for all the shit he talked about, go bear. Like I'm just, I was surprised that, uh, he wasn't great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4762.2

I didn't love the fourth foul that was called on him. I thought that was a really big call. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4862.764

I still think Golden State's not dead. But even if Curry was able to come back in game six, I don't know what version we're getting from him. You know, we're getting... He said earliest game five. And I would lean closer to six. It was fun, though. The Kaminga thing... I was on Kaminga Island. I went down there last night just to watch with my fingers crossed. Brought a bottle of wine. Oh, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4887.911

How's it going down there? Brought some chips, some cheese, some crackers. Nobody was there. It was just me and my wife. You must not have any public services or anything. Nothing. There's no electricity. It is a weird one. And I, you know, as Kerr is one of my favorite coaches, as you know, and I still, I think it's just so weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4907.912

that he punted on Kamingo when you watch some of the other guys in this team. And I get it from his mindset. Like he makes mistakes on defense. He doesn't fit into our flow of the up, but the guy is so athletically talented and unique with the roster they have. I still can't believe it as a play that we're, here's where I've landed though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4925.171

So I think some guys just aren't good playing 18 to 20 minutes a game. We've seen it a lot. Some guys, they just need to play big minutes. I actually think Pritchard's a little bit like this for the Celtics. I don't think Pritchard is a, let me come in for seven minutes each half guy. I think he needs bigger minutes. And he was a huge part of why they won yesterday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

4946.608

But I just think some guys are like that. And maybe Kamiga is one of those. But if I was a GM, I would really think about him. Like if I was the Pistons... Be like, you know what? Let's look at all the tapes of when Kamingo played 30 plus minutes and try to figure out what that looks like on our team. I think he's competitive. I really think there's something there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5039.603

They no question rejuvenated his trade value as a sign and trade guy. He had a play in the third quarter when, and the words had momentum and he was, had ant 40 feet from the basket and took this crazy angle and anxious went by him and had this crazy duck on him last night. Right? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5059.818

So, and I watched that and I'm like, no wonder Kerr's not playing him. Cause this is like, I, I don't understand how that would be your defensive tactic. Um, it's too bad. I, You know, Curry's 37. They put a lot of miles on him and he ended up breaking down and having an injury. And it's not shocking, but it's too bad because this would have been a really fun series. Celtics next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5085.519

I invited my wife's friend, Krista, who's very fun, came over yesterday and we had margaritas and I drank margaritas during the entire game. That was how I dealt with game three. Is that all? They drank it. They drank it up. I was really nervous and just decided to enjoy my Saturday and have some cocktails and watch the Celtics. And it was a fun one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5117.458

They're a better basketball team. They're down 1-2 in the series. They've led every game by 20-plus points. How am I supposed to feel? This is a ridiculous series. I've never seen a series like that. They're up 20 points in the second half of all three games and they're down two to one. I will say, I thought Joe called a couple of amazing timeouts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5144.285

There was a couple where it's like, just call it now, Joe. Just don't be a hero. Call the timeout now. The Knicks are rumbling. They're ready to go on a run here. And he called it three times. And I thought the most important thing he did which of course they did not mention at the halftime show, played Pritchard. He played him 18 minutes in the first half, kept him out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5168.019

Holiday played 10 minutes. Pritchard's a real problem for the Knicks. I don't fully understand it, but they don't seem to have anybody on their team who can guard him. He's not afraid to guard Brunson. He spaces the floor. The more he plays, the better he is. And I thought he was absolutely massive and the biggest reason they won the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

517.662

They ran a roller going down the middle, and then either he goes to the rim or he kicks it back out, and they were doing it perfectly today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5187.211

And then also Horford on two days rest, which, by the way, will not be happening again for three more games. But Horford, two days rest versus one day rest was... And I thought Porzingis, as much luggage as he looks like, he was still pretty important defensively in a couple patches of that game just by being long and kind of standing around with his hands up. So great win. They needed it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5213.424

I thought the Knicks, they played three games now and haven't looked good in any of them, which means they're due for a good game, which is the part that worries me the most. They haven't played a good game yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5275.661

Yeah, it's a little harder to get to the line these days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5339.452

No, but that wasn't it, though. The offense was so much more sophisticated than it was those first two games. You know what I loved? I liked how they played in the first half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5432.653

We saw it the same way. One thing I liked... And I don't know what happened in game one and game two. I have no explanation for it. But in game three, they put a real concerted effort into putting guys in spots that they like that the Knicks didn't like. Tatum was another one. Like one of the first plays they ran for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5449.92

Tatum's always good when he has the ball on the left, like 35 feet from the basket. You set him a pick and he dribbles right toward the key and he can pull up from three. And I always feel like it's going in when he takes that. Those first two games, they had him dribbling the ball up as the point forward. And, you know, playing with his food, doing the one-on-one stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5469.178

I thought they got everybody involved. And I thought they really did a good job with Pritchard. They ran a couple of Drew Holiday plays. They got White. White got a couple of plays where they set some picks for him. He was trying to go to the basket. They kept going downhill. And really smart. And then when they took the big lead in the second half, you could feel it veering back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5488.513

toward that game one, game two offense again, because they were trying to basically kill time. When this team tries to go in the prevent offense, I'm not going to like it every time. Just so you know, there's never going to be a situation where I'm happy when they go prevent offense. I don't like it. I think when they're moving, when they try to run, that was another thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5505.583

They were trying to run off rebounds and turnovers, push the ball, push the ball, push the ball. And you know, the Knicks aren't, that's where you want. You want towns like running back, trying to, you know, try to get back there. The Mitchell Robinson, Hacker Robinson stuff I thought was really good. I don't like that hack of stuff. I've never liked it, but I thought it hurt the Knicks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5530.202

It changed the energy of the game in a couple spots when the Knicks felt like they were about to make some sort of comeback. And then Ananobi was awful. Yeah, I know. I'm just raving about him. He was incredible in game one, right? He was the best guy on the floor in game one. And in game three, you didn't know he had Tobias Harris. I didn't realize you were out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Or they're trying to get 0.5 points per possession.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5656.053

And a team that's good on the road in a way that I almost feel more comfortable with them on the road than at home. Their record, I think, on the road was better than at home this year. I don't know why the home court advantage doesn't matter for them anymore. And I don't know really what's happened to home court advantage in general. They were 33-8.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5702.177

I mean, I told you I invited my wife's best friend over to have margaritas with me for the entire day because I was so nervous about game three. So that was my state of mind. It's not something I typically do on a Saturday. The Porzingis thing really makes me nervous. I think it puts an incredible amount of pressure on Horford and Cornette to a lesser degree.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5724.078

I really worry about them with rebounding. My fear for game four with the one-day rest is the Knicks pounding them on the boards and the crowd being really into it and them hanging around, hanging around and getting second chances and Horford just being luggage like he was in game two and Porzingis just seeming... I don't know what the right word is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5748.288

he's weak i mean the illness if this is what we're talking about here he seems off like almost fumbly hands like his reflexes aren't even there 100 in the same way so what he was bearish well what more more like uh who is that guy in okc that poco a little poco ish um he at least learned in the next game the game three to just keep his hands up and be like i'm tall i'm gonna do that

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5774.963

But, you know, it's a massive loss to have this guy who is a guaranteed 20, who is like their swagger guy in a lot of ways. When he was getting going, the whole team, it was like an electroshock. And also, like, it's just a huge pain in the ass. And I think specifically kills towns. And you're just removing that and you're getting this kind of luggage version of him. I thought Cornette was good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5799.522

And Pritchard, I think, has weirdly become the key swing guy of the series. Because I don't see why game three can't keep happening for him. He's getting guys in switches and he's just destroying them. And he's hitting all of his corner threes and the spacing that he gives them. We also have not had a good Tatum game yet, which I think is a positive for the Celts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5824.208

And I thought Brown looked pretty athletic. Um, so yeah, there's some positives, but yeah, they're down to one. I'm never going to feel good about this. It feels like it's going to go seven. I think the Knicks will have one awesome game when they shoot like 20 for 42 from three. And you know, it's just law of averages. They're not going to just suck for the entire series offensively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5870.683

That I can't explain. His rebounding's been great, but... I don't understand why he's not jacking up seven, eight threes a game. I always feel like they're going in when he takes them. It's one of those... I don't like when he's open. No, I wouldn't say that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5886.487

I also don't like when they put him on the low block with Horford on him or a smaller guy, and he actually gets aggressive and tries to wheel into them like he did in game two. I think that's sitting there for them. And I thought Bridges had some really nice offensive moments in game three where he's got that little funky near the baseline, little 8-10 footer that they know they can go to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

590.449

Right. And the Pacers, I say this as the highest compliment I can give because I really love this team. But they look a little 2014 Spurs-ish at times with the way they play with each other and the ball moves around. With the added bonus that I think they're a really good transition team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5907.254

So they have options, but... You know, they suck. Sometimes this will happen though with the game where it's the hottest ticket. The crowd's crazy. Oh my God, that crowd's going to be off the hook. And then the other team comes out and throws a haymaker and they're up 15 in the crowd. You know, everyone's just paralyzed. Like what happened? I thought, you know, people are there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5927.444

They went on StubHub. Their kid wanted to go. We have all these celebrities. Every Nick is there. There's this crazy energy that's happening. And then you can diffuse that in like 10 minutes. You know, and we've seen that over and over again with, with the Monday night. It'll be, I think be, that'll be not a crowd with the kids. That'll be like the real neck fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5947.947

There'll be a real energy in that game. And I really worry about the rebounding for the suffix that they need. Like Tate, it needs to be like a 14 rebound game for Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5964.093

Oh, I thought you were going the Superman ads. Like, talk about timing. Jesus Christ.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5979.28

I think this is a good PSA for all the guys out there. Maybe don't do those commercials if you might be in a tough series. I would bat that one around with maybe your manager, your agent, the other people in your life. What are the worst case scenarios for this ad? So I'm going to be in a Superman thing on a Saturday and we're down 0-2.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

5999.222

And there's just been a national dialogue about whether I'm a superstar or not for three days. And now I'm in a Superman commercial. Maybe hold off till July on those. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6021.643

Here's the thing, because I heard you do this on Thursday. You feel the same way I did about Tatum this year. I think Tatum has been awesome in the clutch this year. I voted for him third in the clutch rankings, which I still don't really fully understand the clutch rankings because it's like, why isn't Jokic the winner of the clutch player? Like he does everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6041.853

But I thought Tatum was really good and reliable and smart. in these crunch times. And, you know, that went sideways in the first two Knicks games. But I, the only thing I don't like with him is the, the step back three with the hand in the face. And, you know, there's a reason heading into yesterday. What was it? The last 32 playoff games, you're shooting 28% from three. That's bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6067.319

There's your answer. That means you're taking too many bad threes if you're at 28%. I thought he took some good ones yesterday and then near the end when they had a big lead, it got a little dicey.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

607.737

And Halliburton, you know, especially in a game like today, when there was one pass he threw, he was at midcourt, and he just threw this lob pass in the corner, almost like watching a quarterback throw a lead pass to a receiver down the sidelines. He's... casually threw it and he had a guy running down and caught it like in stride, stopped and had a look.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6089.183

So you're saying, give me this scenario. It's like 40 seconds left, tie game. It's a 2-1 in the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6107.719

I think the 2-for-1, this has now become an epidemic where we've done a 180 now where the 2-for-1 team should do this. You get two shots for one. And now the first shot that they're getting on the 2-for-1 is the worst shot of the game. And I just... It's like, cool. You're going to get a second shot now. Three seconds left. You just took a 29-footer with a hand in your face.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6137.738

They're the worst shots always by everybody. Everybody in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6255.026

We need a whole Sloan conference study on how stupid the two for one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6260.33

Can I say one thing on the Tatum end of the game shot clock off? Because you're not going to answer it? No, because normally I like it. Guess when I don't like it as much? When Ananobi is guarding him. Well, that I mean, I think he's a nightmare. I've been so impressed. I mean, he's had a really good season. I think he's had a really good stretch. He's a nightmare. He's a nightmare.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6279.431

I don't think Tatum can go by him because he's so strong and he moves his feet. So we've seen over and over again with Brown and Tatum when they go against him. It's like watching somebody try to open a front door that won't open. And they're just like, no, no, it's going to open. And they're banging. You can't get by him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

628.414

And I was like, this team sees angles that I don't normally see when I'm watching basketball. They really have fun playing with each other. They have all these guards. They pressure full court. I think they're a huge pain in the ass to play. I think you want to punch him in the face after like game two, which we saw today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's been a big winner of the playoffs. If I'm the Celtics near the end of the games or the end of the plays or when I need a basket, I just feel like there's better options. All of them are better options. If Towns is out there and Brunson is out there, whoever those guys are guarding, that's my first thought.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6368.71

And even if that means we have Peyton Pritchard with Mitchell Robinson on the right side and he's going to go one-on-one with him with 17 seconds left, I like it. Because I just feel like there's ways to attack this team that for whatever reason they weren't doing it. Well, we'll see what happens tomorrow night. I think the Celtics are going to be in for a really hard game tomorrow.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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It's not a game I would bet. And I'm worried about the Knicks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

64.567

So the reason it's Tuesday instead of Monday is because I'm going to do a podcast on Monday. We're going to do a podcast after Celtics-Knicks and after the lottery and just doing it. And I think the schedule might be Sunday, Monday, Wednesday, and either Thursday or Friday this week. So I think I'm doing four on this feed this week. So rewatchables will be Tuesday. That's Death Wish.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6408.297

I know. Why are they playing Bogut? We had four during the game, but I was also like powering water because that's the vet move. People don't realize. You don't realize that when you're in college. Just drink a lot of water. It gives you like superhuman. Yeah. All right. One more break for the podcast, and then we got to talk lottery. Lottery karma rankings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I used to do this as a column once upon a time. I did not send you my list. I was just going to go through it and have it react. I'll read you the teams with the odds and their top four odds and basically come down to who I think should win from a karma standpoint for the lottery. All right. So what does that entail? What does that mean? Karma for a lottery?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Matherin, you know, goads Hunter into a thing and then thinks he's the smart guy. And then they review it and they're like, no, actually you're getting tossed. But they just want to get under your skin. And I think they're annoying to play. It's no surprise to Celtics fans because this is a team that has come... Every time they played the Celtics, they brought it. They start shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Did you behave the right way as an organization and a basketball team? Did you bastardize your season?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Have you won in the past? Have you already been given a bunch of lottery carrots over the years?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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This is the Cleveland point. When you lost your shit on TV. When Cleveland won the lottery three times in four years. It was fucking ludicrous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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That one killed me. Everybody's just staring at me. Are you just doing the right thing as an organization? Are you on a good run? Do you deserve it basically because you're just doing the right things? You're making good decisions. You're picking good players. If you're the news, don't lie. Right. So anyway, my number one team for the lottery karma rankings. Drum roll, please. The Houston Rockets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6524.923

They have 3.8% odds to win the number one pick and 17.3% to get in the top four. They got the pick from that Brooklyn trade they have. So this is basically Phoenix's pick. And... I still, to this day, didn't really love the James Harden trade that much that they made for Brooklyn, but it turned out fine. But they've made a lot of good draft picks and they've set themselves up in a really nice way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I even like the Shangoon Green contracts they did. I'm interested to see what they do this summer. And I think if ever in the lottery, they've earned the right to say like, you know what? We've just done it the right way here the last couple of years. So that'd be my first pick. Your reaction?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6594.073

Don't think I didn't have it written down for alternate if Denver wins. No, it's like, shit, this is now happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Just proactively trade him without even asking him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Who do I get him from OKC? Holmgren has to be in it, right? He has to be in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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They're really hard to play. They have a deep bench. They're really good at home. They get a good crowd. And I think they're for real. I thought they were for real all year. With that said, I'm shocked that Cleveland could look this bad in an important game. And I don't know whether Mitchell, it took so much for him those first couple of days with, you know, such a burden. I'm not sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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What is he? Is he 22, 23? I'm a big Chet fan. I think the only thing that worries me is that he's had two injuries already. And now, granted, it's like, well, but I just... Injured big guys make me nervous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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My number two team in the ladder of karma rankings... The Washington Wizards, 14% odds for number one, 52.1 to be in the top four. And first of all, I liked their draft last year. They've changed their organization around. I don't think they've been like crazy just fine. I even kind of like the Jordan pool trade looking back, like fine. Especially if you're tanking. This is more selfish.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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We need more good players in the East. And you and I need more good players than the 4 p.m. PT games. I just feel like we're late.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6739.093

Yeah, what are we going to do? We get the Pistons, some Celtic games. I think I've watched enough Atlanta. We need to beef up that crew. And I just feel like I like the way they've handled the last couple years for the most part. So that was a strong number two, your reactions. They have won in the past a couple of times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

6844.79

Yeah, they won wall. The last really fun team that seemed like they had a chance to maybe make the finals was that 2017 team that lost to the one and only Kelly Olenek. They had a fun arenas run there for about a split second in the mid 2000s. Yeah. And they had a fun split second with C-Web and Juwan and Rod Strickland and whatever that was, even though they got swept in round one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Listen, I've known House since 1988. And he's never had anyone remotely approaching Cooper Flagg. The best players he's had since I've known him. which is two-thirds of my life now, were Bernard King in the 1990, C-Web, not washed up, but getting there, Mitch Richmond, and then Arenas, and then Bradley Beal and Wall. So anyway, I have them second. Number three, Portland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I just think basketball is really hard now in 2025. You know, it's, it's when you have those games, like that game that he had when he was literally dead at the end of the game and you're doing everything, all the running and all the contact and the amount of times he was bouncing against people and finishing and I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Oh, definitely not in the 50s. Probably like 45 and 37.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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And that was almost 50 years ago. All right, so third one. They won the title so long ago that the team that they beat has not been in their city for 20 years. That's how long it's been.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Number one odds for Portland, 3.8. Top four, 16.9. The reasons here... The Dame trade was... The right trade, I think they get rewarded for that. The Abdiah trade was probably the sneaky move of the summer last year. We're still in it with our guys, Scoot. I like their weird collection of assets. The Billups coaching hire turned out to be pretty good. I think they extended him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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And it's Arrow pointing up in a lot of ways. This would be a good spot for Cooper Fleck.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Houston, Washington, Portland. Fourth one, Utah. Number one odds, 14%. They have the best. They're in the one spot. So even if a couple teams jump them, they'll still be there. Six teams have never had the first pick in the draft. Can you name them? Utah is one of them. So there's a hint.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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One of the great lottery reactions of all time. Miami Heat have never had the number one pick. And the Oklahoma City Thunder have somehow never had the number one pick. So Utah... They took care of Will Hardy, which I appreciated. They gave him a contract till 2031. Like, sorry, dude. Sorry we had to make you do that the last two years. Their owner has been great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I think he's probably the best kind of new wave owner the league's brought in in the last 10 years. But they did really tank pretty aggressively. But I think it would be fun to have Flag go to this team. So I'm going to overlook some stuff with them. I have them fourth. your reaction.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I, I, I hate to shit on the old generations cause you know, I love all that basketball, but I just think it's harder. I think these games are harder. I think they're more physical, they're more taxing and it's a lot to ask from these dudes to put an offense on your back like that, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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They have a hockey team. It's fucking cool there. They don't have 16th Street like Denver. So that's a positive. They got rid of Sundance. I think that helps the cap. That's out? Yeah, Sundance. Going to Boulder.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Never made it. All right. I'm happy to consider them being in tier one. They should be tier one. The Will Hardy thing made me mad because I think he's a really good coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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And you just removed two years of... Imagine if you... When you came to work for us in 2018, if I was like, yo, first two years, I'm going to need you to really just fuck up the first 15 minutes of your podcast because we need the downloads to be down. And then you can try and try some stuff. But I don't really want it to be good yet. But 2021, I really want the pot to be good. So just kind of.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I'm just trying. But imagine being in the being in the position of like, don't do your best. Hey, we're not going to be ways to win this game. Don't use them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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This whole zoom thing you're seeing on the shows, moving to video, just two more years, audio only. Um, well, I just think that sucks to be like, this is how I have to coach. Like my organization doesn't want me to win, but we both agree. That's what you have to do when you're Utah. You have to play it that way. It's just a confounding thing about the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I'll move them up to tier four, tier one. You sold me. I think Washington would have the same kind of impact, though. I think he's a game changer for them. They've never had a player come in who is like, I'm going to make everyone better on this team guy in the last 40 years, which is what we think he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Jordan Poole's like, I can't wait to teach him everything I know. All right. Next one is Brooklyn. Their number one odds are 9.9%, top 4, 37%. you know, they sabotaged year one of the Geordie era. They might've been like a 38, 30, they might've been a play in team and they were just like, no way. So I got to ding them for that. But, uh, you know, they've been all over the map.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Sean Marks, I guess can just never get fired. But the, uh, the KG trade turned out to be just a grand slam. So you almost like get rewarded for that, right? All the stuff they got in that trade, that's still going and going and going. Um, I wouldn't be upset if they won. I, you know, there's a whole case of can Brooklyn even survive unless they had a guy like this in New York city.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Like when you think about what happened with the Knicks this year, I just think Brooklyn's going to be the ugly stepchild of New York basketball forever, unless they get a guy like this. So that's the case for it. And a Feeney's pizza outside Barclays. I got, I'm going to throw that in there too for karma. Great pizza.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Charlotte's next. 14% number one odds. Played the game like everybody else did. New ownership. I like Charles Lee. I wonder if you get flagged, how many guys are still on this team two years from now, if you get flagged?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

7477.396

Who's on the 2028-29 season roster. Well, it's already two with LaMelo and Miller.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

7532.032

I didn't sell the stock yet, but I do have a red flag next to it. Chicago, number one odds, 1.8%. But I like some of the trades that they recently made. We're in a weird territory here because we've got Toronto, number one odds, 7.5%. You and I have hated them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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No, it's pathetic that they don't spend money. Right? I think they've spent the tax once in 15 years. But I just like some of the guys in the team. So I was thinking from a karma standpoint, I enjoy Kobe White. I like Giddy. Vooch, I've enjoyed. Putting Flag on that team, I think, would be fun. That's really the only guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Toronto, 7.5%. You and I have not liked their moves. The only reason they're this high is because there's four other teams that have to be lower than them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Their number one odds are 12.5%. They've drafted really well, which we've talked about many, many times. they've made some really bad trades. They seem like they're jinxed as a franchise and as a basketball city. This would be the one city I'd be actually worried for Cooper Flagg if he went there because it just seems like nothing good happens there. But the fun piece is from a karma basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

7636.387

If they did get Flagg, it opens up content left and right for us. There's so many possible trades. They might be good right away. It could be like he could swing them by 20 wins potentially just because they already had a lot of talent in place. So that part's fun. But man, it just feels like they've had a lot of luck already. They won the Zion lottery. It's hard to say, oh man, they're due.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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They literally won one of the three hardest lotteries that we've had for what people wanted in the last 15 years. That's the case for New Orleans for and against.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

7756.02

Yeah, this next year. He's an expiring heading into next season. Got it, got it, got it. I looked up the Zion contract stuff to familiarize myself with it, and I thought there was partial guarantees. They could let him go before July 15th and just get completely out of it, which I... I wouldn't do that. I had forgotten that that was an option.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Let's just, I'm not saying I would do it. I'm just saying it's in play. It's a thing that they can do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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What's that? They could trade for somebody who takes the Zion contract and immediately intends to waive the contract. because this will be their way to get out of a shitload of money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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You know why you're right? Because you could do this all again next year. Yeah, you could take, even if you're trading for him, you could take a flyer on him knowing that, all right, if this goes badly again next year, I could just get out of it and waive him again. But I just, everyone is so desperate to shed money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I just think it's notable that somebody makes $39 million a year who could match with anyone in trade. You could then wave and get out of all the money, all the apron shit that comes with it. I don't, I don't think that's nothing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Like the new owners, like now that I have the team, guess what? We're cutting costs. We've traded for Zion and we're waving him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I think this is my fourth margarita. The Knicks started to come back. I was like, oh my God. All right, bottom three. San Antonio, third from last. Number one odds, 6.8. They won with Wemby. That's really the only reason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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We're right. which leads us to the second to the last karma team, the Philadelphia 76ers. Their number one odds are 10.5%, top four, 42%. If it falls seven or lower, they're in the five spot now. Two teams jump them. OKC gets their pick. I just don't think you should be able to stumble in a Cooper flag after the summer they had last year. It's ridiculous. It's outright ridiculous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

7925.732

I'd be happy for Maxie. I'd be happy for McCain. But the Embiid extension combined with the Paul George four years and trotting out the big three media dialogue and the title stuff and all of it, if it leads to Cooper flag, that's outrageous. No offense to our Philly fan friends.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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We're running ISOs for Edwards. Like, fuck you guys. They're ready to, like, Tanya Harding, Quinton Grimes. They're just going to hire some fat guy to hit them on the side of the leg on the bench.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Embiid. I'm thinking of the headline. Embiid, excited to take Cooper Flag under his wing. A new long ESPN feature. Last but not least. Now, it's weird because they should be last in the lottery karma rankings. But you could also make a case they should be first. Because of the fans. The Dallas Mavericks, number one odds, 1.8%, top four, 8.5%.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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To do that Luka trade and then end up with Cooper Flagg would be a moral outrage. Not even an outrage. I'd be morally outraged. My morals would be discombobulated by it. I just can't believe that's how it would work out. It would make me so mad. Like, really? You motherfuckers just got Cooper Flagg after making the dumbest trade anyone has ever seen?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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And it worked out and you got Cooper Flagg out of it. But on the other hand, for the Mavericks fans who are as traumatized and upset about a trade as any fan base I've ever seen since I've started to like sports, I'd be happy for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Because at least they'd be rewarded for... They've done some good stuff, San Antonio. The Fox trade was good. Castle pick was good. They tanked while also seeming like they cared about the season, which I think is a hard line to straddle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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You win this game on Saturday. You have this Knicks game on Monday that's, I think, one of the biggest Knicks games of this century. But now you're looking at, hey, we've outplayed the Knicks for 93% of this series. Let's take care of business. Win three more. We're going to have home court for round three, potentially, with Indiana. Yeah. right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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And when that team gets eliminated... When Reeves gets traded this summer, and he will get traded, and the stuff that they get back for him is going to make it seem even worse that they didn't get him in the trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I can do two more minutes on Nico. Yeah. Just set me up and.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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So I always grab a Dream Team cup when I do the pod. I love that you do that. I didn't notice that I grabbed John Stockton. I just grabbed one. Does it mean anything that I grabbed John Stockton for the lottery? Coincidence? I had 12 choices of Dream Team Cups. I guess Malone or Stockton.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

8336.28

So it was a one in six chance I was grabbing a Utah thing, which is basically the exact same odds that they have in the lottery. So I grab a John Stockton. Don't think about it. We'll see tomorrow night if it's a coincidence. All right. So we're going to watch this game. We're going to for the podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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We're going to put at the very top of the podcast, our thoughts on the Cleveland game that we're about to watch. We'll tape a little stuff at the top, but I enjoyed myself as usual. Good to see you, Rosillo. See you in a bit. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo and Eduardo and Gahal. Don't forget, I'm coming back tomorrow night with another podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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So it goes from, let's say, let's even say it goes to seven and they're able to hold on and beat the Knicks in seven and game one of the Knicks series is in Boston on a Wednesday. And you get the game seven potentially at home too. It's an amazing turn of events when you consider a team won 64 games in the conference. And I really believed in Cleveland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

8374.604

Rewatchables push till Tuesday. You still have an extra day to watch Death Wish, which is quite a movie, quite a 70s movie. And I will see you in 24 hours.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

8397.699

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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You can watch it on Ringer Movies as well. You can watch all the YouTube clips, videos, live stuff from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Rosilla and I, we recorded a bunch of this earlier today, right after the Denver OKC game. And then the top part of the podcast is right after Cleveland, Indiana, which was an absolute debacle for one of those two teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I thought this was going to be a really hard series because I'm also, as we've talked about many times, I just really thought Indiana was good. But I really was sold on Cleveland as a team. I thought they had a bench. I believed in Mitchell as a guy who could be the number one guy in a potential finals team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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Thought they were there defensively, but the signs that were there, if you're really looking back, we talked about it some with the net rating for the last 25 games, last 30 games, and they just were better the first 30, 35 games than they were the rest of the year. And the defensive stuff was the stuff that I think there were some subtle red flags.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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They just weren't a top five or six defense anymore, really from the all-star break on. And the question was why, what was happening? And then you see like today, you know, there he's, when did he put a court? Yeah. Cora was in there a bunch, but he's, I almost felt like Atkinson was grasping for straws a little bit in this game. Like he's just trying lineups and players.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Floundering Cavs, OKC-Boston Gut Checks, and Lottery Karma Power Rankings With Ryen Russillo

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I'm saying the first half, like, ah, I hope a coral has something. It's like, wow, you guys are at that stage. I hope Okoro can give us an offensive boost stage of the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Coming up, we figure out a way to talk about OKC, basketball, sports media, a lot of stuff with Priscilla and Brian Curtis next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I am on the Prestige TV podcast recapping White Lotus every Sunday night, right after the episode runs on HBO and on Max. Me, Joanna Robinson, Mally Rubin. You can hear our recap.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Oh, he's probably going to shoot here and he's already like releasing the ball and he's just so good at it now. He's so good from 18 feet that the model I was thinking was solo was, uh, It's like the most efficient version possible of where Kobe was getting to in that 03 to 09 range.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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And Kobe would try to swing between these three-pointers, get into the line, and then this 15 to 18-foot range jump shot. And SJ's just more efficient at it. He's 53, 54% per game on some of these. And they're just always going in. And I think about the Celtics. It's like, how do you stop this? What's your move? Like, do you just say drew holiday on him all the time?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Well, then they're just going to get him in switches until he gets the guy that he wants on him. And then he does it to them. But it's, this is why he's going to win the MVP. I think because when you watch them against these good teams, he always seems to get his points, no matter what the other team is doing. And that's going to be the case for him ultimately. Plus the wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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If they, you know, long rebounds or if they get a steal, they just finish plays. And SGA is really good in the open four, too, which I think that's probably the fourth way he's getting his points.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Just watched OKC Denver. I'm a little groggy today, Russillo. OK. Daylight savings combined with going to bed last night, wanted to throw something on, flip through the cable guide because I'm old and I still flip through cable guides. Castaway just started a movie I've seen 100,000 times. I did a solo rewatchables for and I'm like, I'll just watch the beginning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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That's another piece that makes it not that fun to quote unquote, talk about them because they all like each other and get along and they do interviews after the game. There's no like, ah, I wonder is Jalen Williams jealous about SGA, but there's none of that shit. So SJ is 33 a game, 53% field goal, plus 17.6 net rating heading into this game. Although a lot of the OKC guys are way up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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31.1 PR, which is really rare for a guard. That's top 20 all the time. And he plays every game, which I'm always going to say this over and over again. Durability should matter a little more when we talk about all this stuff. But if you compare it to Curry in 2016, when the Warriors went 73-9, 30 points a game, 35 and seven basically. And he had all the 50, 45, 90 percentage stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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MJ in 92, when the Bulls went 67 and 15, he was 30, six and six, 52% played 80 games. Kobe, probably his best season was 03 for team success combined with the stats, 37 and six. And then Harden in 2018 when they went 65 and 17, he was 36 and nine. So as crazy as this sounds, he's having the best statistical season of any of these guards combined with like, did you win in the mid 60s or higher?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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So if you're talking about, because I've heard some people be like, Jokic has to be the MVP again. I just think SGA, I don't know who I'm voting for yet. I'm taking it to the last week as always. But watching SGA do this over and over again in these big games, just get to his 40 points. His team is usually winning. He's doing it day after day after day. He has a dramatic effect on everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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I just think he's checking all the boxes. It would be hard for me to believe he's not going to win if they win 66 games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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He had a triple-double on Friday night in the beginning of the third quarter and then a second triple-double during the game on Friday. He put together two different triple-doubles in one game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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And I'm up till like 1.45 in the morning, which was really 2.45 in the morning. And I just loved that movie. But I had to ask you, what's your castaway move coming out of the gate? You're just stranded on the island. Like, do you figure out how to do a home gym? Like what, about a year in, what does your island look like? I've actually thought about this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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SGA's minus $600,000. I'm not deciding until the last week, but everything SJ is doing, I find it hard to believe he's not going to win. I think he's going to win too. With the team record and everything else. But I'm with you. If I'm just starting from scratch... And who is the best player in the league? It's really hard for me to think. It's not game to game. All the stuff Jokic does.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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I think he's been in a harder spot this year with his team. Not knowing where you're getting from Murray the first two months. Gordon's been up and down the last like six weeks with injuries. Westbrook, they're relying on in this insane way now. They don't have a bench at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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SJ has at least, if you're gonna like, and it's not his fault, but he at least knows when he leaves the game, they're not gonna immediately crater. Um, but it's a good battle. It's a really good battle. I hope it doesn't get, uh, I hope it doesn't get cantankerous as we get closer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Also, it's good to talk to, like, if you talk to people who actually coach in the league or run teams, um, Jokic is still the bar for the teams. It's a little like Mahomes. Mahomes wasn't the best player in the league last year in the NFL, but he was still the bar that people pointed to when they thought like, Who do we have to get by to actually win the title? You looked at Mahomes first.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Well, if OKC wins tomorrow and they win the back to back against Denver, it's probably going to be a wrap at this point. All right. We're going to take a quick break and then let's talk about lessons from Lakers Boston last night. One of the best parts of the tournament is when an underdog takes down a powerhouse. This was in my formative years with March Madness in the 80s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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It is because there's no music for like 50 minutes. So it's peaceful.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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enjoy responsibly 2025 anheuser-busch mcglobal ultra light beer st louis missouri must be 21 plus to order alcohol alcohol available only in select markets one thing i forgot to mention about okc that philly pick is such a monkey wrench in this draft if that ends up being seven eight or nine i just i kept thinking about it watching that game like what does this team even need

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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What do they look... It's like, yeah, we got to upgrade. Every part of the team I kind of like. So anyway. All right. Lakers-Celtics. Felt like a massive basketball game last night. It felt like real theater. And the Lakers were a little compromised. No Rui and no even Jackson Hayes. I can't believe I'm saying it. But not having both of those guys. Having no centers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Yeah, having no centers was an issue against a team that has size and can drive the basket. Celts didn't have KP. But that game... was really fun to watch. Tatum was awesome. Um, the crowd was really interesting about, I knew multiple people that were there and there were some Laker fans there. I think there was some secondary market Laker fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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So there was a real energy in the arena and the Lakers just couldn't keep up. It was unsustainable with, uh, those two guys and then LeBron breaks down anyway. But what, what big lesson did you take from that game? Anything? Horford,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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He's really comfortable at least banging with LeBron, which is funny because there was that whole stretch when LeBron just owned the Hawks. And even though his minutes are the same this year, it doesn't feel like they've used him in the same ways. They've been way more bubble-wrappy with him. And then if they really need him, they'll unleash him in a game like that. I agree with you. He was...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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He's awesome. I don't understand how he's still doing it. I was surprised the Lakers didn't try to get Reeves going a little bit more because I think that's somebody the Celtics have had trouble matching up with. Just those kind of herky-jerky guards in general seem to do okay against them. But I thought the Lakers just got too trapped into this idea of what they thought they... They wanted to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was also a really weird Luca game who clearly wasn't 100%. My dad was, my dad went to the game. He was texting me and he was just like, what's wrong with Luca? Like I started getting those texts pretty early. Like something's not right. He doesn't seem right. And just, he just seemed off. And then, LeBron got hurt, which he tweaked the groin. We'll see how long he's out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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But this is the problem when you're overcompensating for these other things that are missing. And you can fly around and you can look really good in a Thursday night game, but it's not sustainable. You can't put that kind of rebound and defense pressure on LeBron. So they might drop down now to the four or five seed. We might get...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Lakers-Warriors round one is not inconceivable at this point, which I think would be just a nuts series. One thing I noticed before LeBron got hurt, this is the most fun I think I've had watching him since that since the COVID season. Just some of the decisions, some of the ways he was attacking the Celtics, how comfortable athletically he was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Episode four is this weekend. It's on the Prestige TV. You can also watch it on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel. And then the rewatchable is Monday night. We're doing best in show. Yeah. Christopher Guest. Dogs. It's me and Mally Rubin and Joanne Robinson, my White Lotus crew. It's threatening. It becomes sports movie month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was actually looking a little 2018 LeBron-ish to me, that whole run he had in the Cavs team, but he has obviously better teammates. I still would not want to see this team in a series, even if they don't have a center. I assume they're going to have at least Ruby and Hayes when they get to a series. But how fast that they can make up these little eight-point whatevers

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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I just, I'm just still taking them seriously. Last night didn't change anything for me. And then from a Celtics standpoint, I thought Bob Ryan had a great tweet about it. He said, this Celtics team is like a gifted child with a concentration problem. That was Bob Ryan's take on last night's game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because how many times have they been up 22, 23 and they just fuck around for six minutes and the lead seven and the crowd's groaning and we're like, come on guys, let's finish the game here. They do it over and over again. And last night was another example. So those are all my takeaways.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Tatum didn't come out for the first 19 minutes of the game. He played 45 last night. He just played all the way through. Yeah, he went all the way through. They took him out for like a minute in the second quarter. I was like, Jesus. I think they really wanted it because the Lakers kicked their ass. It was interesting, though. My dad, after the game, because I FaceTimed him this morning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We were breaking it down. And he was like, I thought they were scarier with Davis. Which I thought was a great zag by him. I don't know if he's eligible now to come on first take and just like zag hard against Perk and SAS. But he was just like, I thought that team was really hard for us to play because how big and how physical they were.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And now it's like, you know, and he's made the same point that I was thinking watching the game and the announcers talked about too. Like Jalen loves playing against Luka for some reason. I don't know what it is. But Luka brings out the best out of Jalen. And Jalen really feels like he goes into these Luka games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Like we're at least going to be a draw in these games and the rest of my team is better. So yeah, I still feel like when it comes down to the playoffs and those two guys trying to figure out At least one of them's out there all the time. All the shit we've talked about forever. I actually think we can't talk about this Lakers team enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Wait, can I say one thing on a loan? Yeah. Yeah, of course. You don't think the wife would be like, wait a second. What just happened? You spent four months training for this show. You quit the day. Are you just a quitter? What are our kids going to be like? Did you pass along your quitting DNA to our children? I could, I mean like stay a second night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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This is such a fascinating situation to have this one guy who's one of the greatest players of all time, who's playing as well as he's played in five years. And then this other guy who had a chance to be the future of the league, who's on his team. I think I've watched every quarter of the Lakers since these two guys have been playing together. I can't get enough of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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It's a, I've watched too much of this team thing. When they're up 23, I don't feel safe at all. I'm just waiting for stupid shit to happen. And that's, that's the biggest criticism I can have against them. They're up 91, 69. I'm like, all right, there's going to be a run here. I'm just going to just hopefully, hopefully Joe Maz will call, sniff it out, call timeout before it gets too bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then it happens. You look at the net rating. So the last 20 games, they're still fourth. They're 15-5 in their last 20. They're plus 7.8. They haven't been as kick-ass as I think they were in this stretch last year. And if you look at the top six teams who I think are Cleveland, OKC, and Boston drop off, Denver, Lakers, Golden State as the teams that have a chance to win the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Minnesota, I think, has to be considered maybe as a wild, wild, wild card. Who the fuck knows? And then Detroit has just been awesome with advanced metrics for like 25, 30 games. And that's been our top eight. I just would have thought the Celtics would be doing a little bit better. That's if you're going to talk about like as a Celtic fan, what am I concerned about?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're not dominating like they did last year in some of these games. Whereas OKC... it feels like OKC is usually going to be up 20, 25 against a shitty team. And the Souths, it's like, well, maybe they will. Now they've been resting dudes. Like they had that Portland game the other night where they were just like, hey, Pritchard and White, just shoot the lights out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They had another game where it's basically just Tatum and a bunch of G leaguers. So they've been using the schedule and that is some of the net rating stuff. But I'd like to see them go on one little streak here before the playoffs. A little like what Cleveland's doing right now. A little kick-ass stretch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, you're right. It might. Let's talk All-NBA. We're going to bring in Brian Curtis in a couple minutes. Let's talk All-NBA really quick. I can't remember with 20 games left, the first team already being done. Because it's going to be Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, SGA, and Mitchell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, especially with a, there might've been some sort of LeBron push with how good he's been the last like six, seven weeks. But now if he's going to miss some time, that's probably out. Uh, I don't see there, if there's any way, I don't see any of those guys losing their spot. I think that's a wrap. Um, but then we get to the second and third teams and I think it's going to be a free for all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Where, you know, if you only want to take two guards for the second team, it's Edwards and Brunson and Cade. You have to pick two. Or you can tweak it and cheat and just put all three of them on there. I think LeBron is clearly a second team all NBA at this point with the way he's played the last two months. And then centers between Towns and Triple J if you want to do a center for the hell of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I also feel like Mobley and Jalen Williams have to be on there just because of how well their teams are. I think both of those teams should have two All-NBAs. And then after that, you could talk me into 15 guys. But is there anything, as you kind of look, because we're going to do this every week, we'll call it All-NBA Watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is there any sort of storyline you're looking at to see, could this guy pass this guy? Could this guy lose his spot? Because for me, KD is not an All-NBA guy if they're going to be an under 500 team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So LeBron versus Mitchell for a first-team spot, basically? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's really tough for me because Cleveland, Mitchell's so important in what Cleveland does. I really feel like wins should matter at least a little in this. I feel like his stats would be better if the team wasn't as good as it is. There's some games where he plays like 28 minutes. It's not his fault.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Mitchell's been awesome in big games, too. Yeah, I think he deserves it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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LeBron, like the last six weeks, it's something like 29, 10 and seven. Something like that. And he's playing defense again. And he's like their best rebounder. So I don't know. He had forged his way into the combo. There's no question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, my dream in life was for my wife to be on Survivor because I think she just would have kept winning challenges. But she also goes crazy if she's not eating regularly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So if you had to pick two of Edwards, Brunson, Cade, if you're going to go traditional, how would you rank those three just with the all-NBA seasons they're having? Because I would have Brunson, Cade, Edwards third. Because I think what Cade's doing on Detroit is unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ant's stats are great. Records are on there. It's a battle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, if Brunson misses four weeks with that ankle injury, maybe that flips. Not his fault, but that might be the thing. Do you have Cat second team? It's Cat versus Triple J. I think there's been some tough Cat games lately. You agree? Yeah. Been a couple cringers. Yeah, but he's been so good. He didn't even take a shot in the Laker game in the fourth quarter or OT.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So she would have been like, they would have been constantly trying to vote her off. And then she just would have saved her ass again at the next challenge. You know, I... I always have wanted to know somebody that I really know in my life who went on one of those shows and I'm still waiting. Maybe it'll be you. Maybe you don't know anyone in Tasmania.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I get it. I just think with Jackson on Memphis... Um, that team's 38 and 24, although they've lost four straight and they never seem to know if jobs playing or not. And, uh, he's the most reliable guy they have. I would, I had towns, but I don't, I didn't, he's, he's not in a, in pen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I right now had towns, LeBron Edwards, Brunson and Kate. I had them all in, but I'm not going to keep it that way. Cause I'm, I'm still going to go traditional, even though they gave us the out to fuck around with the position. What about Mobley? I had Mobley third team. And if, and if it has to be two forwards, I would move Mobley to second team because of the defense and some of the other stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2930.739

And I got to say, like, I think Jalen Williams has to be a third team right now with the record of that team. And, uh, And then it's just wide open after that. Cause I, the way Jalen Brown has played for the last four or five weeks, I think he's played himself back into the combo. Harden's got to be in there. Halliburton has been a lot better lately. Garland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2955.122

Yeah. He's in the conversation again. Garland is in like the distant conversation. What about Steph? Who would you go? Steph or Garland? Well, Steph is the other one. And the way Steph has been playing, I would have Steph over Garland because I think what's happening to Steph, Steph's the one to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

2974.448

Steph's the one with the arrow pointing next to him on the record charts because he's got the swagger back. Did you end up watching Pistons Warriors last night?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

2986.326

I had it on one of the small TVs. Big Stu. Big Stu is just like, I'm getting, he's like, I'm starting something with somebody. He's on the bench. He starts something anyway. But they played two really good games this year, Pistons and Warriors. Pistons making a late run for league pass MVP. The Rockets had it locked up 40 games into the year. Now the Pistons are like, they're climbing up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3010.595

They've just had a lot of good ones. The Pistons made it hard on them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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306.052

No, somebody that I'm actually like is in my life. where I'm like, oh my God, this is gonna be amazing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3068.453

Kerr had a, they had one of those post-game locker room speeches after the Brooklyn game. Kerr gave a speech and, you know, it was basically like an NFL film speech, but at the end was talking about we know we're going to win these close games now. We know how good we are in these close games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3086.626

Like he basically, their whole thing for the first 45, 50 games of the year was, why do we suck in the clutch? We have Steph Curry. Why aren't we winning these games? How are we blowing these games late? What the fuck is happening? This team now, and you can feel it last night with the Pistons game, which was a tight game and it was a back and forth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3104.376

And I was watching and thinking, where is he going to win? The key play of the game was, Jimmy Butler, left corner, takes Tobias off and hits like an 18-footer. And it was like, they just didn't have that. You couldn't go to Wiggins in that spot, right? It's just whatever happened, that Butler trade, everyone fell into place. Moody became a better defensive guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3123.295

And I'm taking them very seriously still. Golden State. Could they win four straight rounds? Probably not. But would I want to see them in any round? Yeah. Would I want to see them in any round? No. Would they be totally comfortable playing OKC? Yes. They love playing OKC. Those games are always good with that. It was wide open and crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3143.165

And I think they could absolutely hang with them in a series. I don't think they would win it, but I think they could hang.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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318.028

You wouldn't just drink like a lot of coconut, like there's probably some nutrients you could. There's no way. All right, do your castaway. What was your castaway take?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3219.293

P.J. Tucker on the Knicks now. They said experienced veteran and an enforcer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3230.298

On paper, it makes sense. We're going to take a break and come back with our friend Brian Curtis. All right. We're bringing in a third party here to spruce things up. It's like an episode of White Lotus. Brian Curtis is here, editor-at-large of The Ringer. You can hear him on the Press Box. A great podcast. Also Dallas fan. Is Dallas going to be okay, Curtis? Give us the update.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3271.345

I was like, is that the reason you sold the team? Yeah, I'm not going to buy that story, Mark Cuban. How bad can this get worse? How would it get worse at this point? I don't know. Rosillo, do you ever remember an NBA fan base being this upset at a team before since you follow basketball? Seattle. Seattle. Oh, yeah. I guess that's the last level. The team actually has to just move.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3299.462

Let me ask you this. Would you rather be a Sonics fan or a Mavericks fan? Well, if you're a Sonics fan, you know you're at least getting an expansion team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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332.981

I thought about that last night, too, because he goes to the top where he tests out whether he wants to hang himself on the top of the island. And wouldn't the move be to just set everything as high as possible, the highest peak of the island, set it on fire as much as you can so you're getting... At some point, they've got to notice. Although they did say it was a 500,000 square foot radius.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3358.035

Why he sold when he did, what the reasons for, there's some not so conspiracy conspiracy theories about it. It was an organization that had gotten into some trouble behind the scenes in a couple of different ways. There was always rumors about maybe he wasn't as liquid as people thought. And it was a deal that he made like a year before the deal actually happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3380.083

And weirdly, he sold pretty low for what the value of the franchise probably was, considering he had a top five guy. There's still some stuff that hasn't added up for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3403.78

Well, because people just bought what he was saying was like, no, no, I'm still going to be involved. And that's it's never worked that way ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3431.119

Well, it's interesting because he's not getting villainized at all for the Luca thing. And it's a little similar to when the Sonics left Seattle and everybody blamed the guys that bought the team and then moved them to OKC. We did the Sonic Boom podcast about it. But Howard Schultz, the guy that owned the Sonics, the Starbucks guy,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3449.409

He was just as big of a villain because he sold the team to these guys knowing they were probably going to move him. But then he's like, well, I didn't know that, you know, you can play dumb, you can do all you want. In this case, Cuban selling the franchise to these guys who clearly didn't know what this family that clearly didn't know what they were doing, who knows what their intentions were.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3466.997

And it's almost like, could he have put in the deal? You're not allowed to trade Luka Dacic for the entire 2020s. Like maybe he should have put something in there like that. But that's not why we brought Brian Curtis on. NBA media discourse in 2025.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3481.264

It feels like we're in the weirdest place we've ever been, culminating on Thursday night between the third and fourth quarter of a Lakers game on national TV. LeBron James walks over and gets in Stephen A. Smith's face about stuff he said about his son. And it goes viral that night. And Stephen A., He feels like he had to address it. Right, Rossello?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3508.813

He might not have addressed it otherwise, but once it went viral, he didn't want to. Might not ever come up. He had to address it. And then it's this two, three day cycle Where are we going, Curtis? What's the end game here? What is the end game with just the media getting louder and louder and becoming part of the story in all these different ways?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3532.128

Something that I'm not sure anybody likes, but it just feels like we're getting more and more of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3558.887

In the Curb Your Enthusiasm trip shack seats, same seats.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3631.407

I doing it during a game was pretty unusual.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3643.393

Well, especially he's, what, six inches taller, five inches taller. He looks intimidating.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

369.26

Yeah. I did this when I did the solo castaway pod during the first two months of COVID, I did this, but I'm always amazed the husband doesn't wake up. That's my favorite part of the movie. Cause Hank's he's back. Helen Hunt won't see him. And then that first night he just says, fuck it and takes a cab to her house. Husband's just sleeping through it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3721.517

Right. Yeah, he's 6'1", not a point guard, not a shooter, glue guy. Who's the comp? Is it Davion Mitchell, ultimately? That was the question. Could it be Davion Mitchell, who's like a ninth man?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3811.006

Well, I think when you get to the opening night and you put the Griffey's courtside and you do all that stuff, you're bringing attention to something and then to expect people not to discuss it and the merits of it, I think seems pretty naive. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3829.7

Or did he go, what the fuck? We were amazing. I don't know. I just feel bad for Bronny. That's why we haven't really talked about it that much on this pod. He seems like a nice kid. I've always heard good things about him. I don't necessarily think he has to be in this situation, but to expect people not to talk about it It's pretty nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3865.016

This happens in every other walk of life. Why can't it happen here?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

388.069

I know it's raining, but that first night I'm probably going to be sleeping with one eye open knowing my, knowing my wife is, is, is just in a tizzy that the love of her life actually survived. I'm probably going to be up for a couple of days there. Just making sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3880.359

What's the bigger picture thing? Take LeBron out of it. That Stephen A., who I think has been promoted by the network a certain way, right? As like a star on the level of the stars that we're watching in these games, right? Right down to the playoff games when they're two, instead of having the walk-ins with,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3898.035

you know, Jalen Brunson or whoever, it's Stephen A walking into a Knicks game and they're covering it like he's an all NBA guy. And this just seems like the philosophy of the network now is to be loud, loud, loud, loud, loud. It used to be some sort of a balance of like, let's do some really good stuff and let's have a couple pieces of what we're doing be loud.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3920.523

But for the most part, we're going to try to be a whole bunch of things. And now it seems like the Loud is winning, Curtis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

3992.933

What do you think, Russell? Do you feel like there's been a subtle shift of how they're presenting stuff? Is this just the way social media and the way people follow sports in 2025? Is this just they're serving the red meat to the people who want to eat the red meat? What is this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4066.221

a couple of days earlier, Barkley had that whole thing. He starts the show. They clearly planned on, I'm going to take some shots at the competition. And then Steve and they spun it after, like, he wasn't talking about me, Charles and I are good. And it was like, I think he was talking about your whole, the first take and countdown.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4084.667

He was definitely talking about the way ESPN covers basketball, which you're a part of. It wasn't just directed at Perkins, but then Perkins came back and that was another thing that happened. And all of this happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4096.01

I think the same day where we had rival guys on two different networks taking shots at each other who might end up, you know, they're not really working together because they're producing a show out of Atlanta and then the Steve May thing. And it's just like, is this just what we are now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

42.606

On the rewatchables, because we did Rocky last week, Best in Show this week, and two more spots left. I don't know. Could be another sports movie month. Hey, FanDuel Sportsbook. They have some really fun bets right now. Player performance doubles, two-leg parlays already made for you. Take an NBA player prop, combine it with a bet on that player's team to win. We have a ringer, PBT we call him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4239.215

Yeah, it's eight minute halftimes. It's an hour after the game. Eight minute halftime. Are you serious? I mean, I'm saying an eight minute segment just in a row. ESPN segment might be three minutes. You know, you have four people. You got to move it. You got to move around. They'll actually have a conversation. I was always jealous of it. Yeah, I feel like with ESPN,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4258.936

these pregame, postgame, halftime shows, the postgame show is always going to win, Curtis, because you're reacting to something we just saw. It's the same reason why we do a lot of emergency pods or pods right after games, because it's like, this just happened. What'd you think is always going to win? And ESPN, a lot of their stuff is steered toward coming up later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4278.848

What do you think is going to happen? I think this is going to happen. I think Jalen Brown's going to have a big game. It's just not because you're, you know, there's only so much you can do with that stuff, but being able to react to what just happened is a huge advantage. The other thing is the TNT show is a comedy show. Like my wife will be sitting next to me, like on her phone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4297.385

And when those guys come on and she sees Barkley, like she's interested for six minutes because she thinks those guys are funny. And I don't, you know, no other show has that. I don't think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

432.5

Yeah, maybe the move would have been to bow out. OKC Denver. So there's this, and I don't know if I just noticed it this year, but it might be every year where we have to, there's this new thing the media does and it's not new where they lecture people that we're not talking about somebody enough or we got to give these guys more credit. It's like this lecture thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4328.74

They're doing it out of Atlanta still though, right? They're basically being simulcast on ESPN. I guess they're moving there. Do you think they're worried things are going to change?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4370.642

Well, do you feel... So his main critique was all they did was talk about the Lakers and the Celtics and the Knicks. And Stephen A. 's response was, well, we have two hours and we have eight segments. And if you do, I haven't watched a lot of two-hour first takes, but they do bounce around a lot of stuff. What they lead with... is usually the biggest teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4396.033

Marcelo, they've been doing that since you were a young pup there. They're always going to push people toward talk Lakers, talk Cowboys, talk Yankees, like whoever the biggest teams are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4497.529

That's how they sell the headlines of the stuff, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

454.428

It's a way of talking about a team because you don't really have anything that interesting to say. So you look in the camera and you lecture people about, we're not talking about OKC enough. I don't know what we're doing, people. And you do that thing. We did this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4572.506

What is the strategy, if you had to describe a big picture content strategy for them as we head into the heart of the mid-2020s here, Curtis, what would it be?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4634.588

And that includes the social media strategy and how they use a lot of those clips because they're just pushing interest and fervor toward that flagship thing, which begs the bigger question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

467.474

I remember the first time I really noticed this was that the year after the Suns made the finals and they were awesome because I think I did it. where the Suns were really good that second year and nobody was talking about them. And at some point there was a week where I was like, we're not talking about the Suns. What are we doing? I did it. Right. We did it. We all did it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4677.973

Well, so where does the stuff like all the weird original stuff they do on ESPN Plus go? Like some of the stuff Omaha does, like does that stuff, is that part of their plan or is it just going to be game rights and reaction shows? And that's the future of the company.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4704.817

Hmm. Um, on the, uh, on the Barkley being on ESPN next year, piece of it, and just that show in general, Look, who knows? It doesn't feel like it's going to go great. It's just it's like one of those when when Conan took over Jay Leno show and Jay Leno didn't want to leave. And there was just even before it started, you're like, ah, this something feels off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4732.369

I just somebody delivering a show to ESPN that they're not in control of, which we're seeing now with McAfee, which I'm sure they have mixed opinions on. Um, but just in Barkley who just doesn't give a shit anymore is the other piece of this. Right. And Kenny, I'm not sure he really cares.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4750.876

Like they're just going to go and they're going to push and they're going to tweak and they're going to do their thing. It's, it really has a chance to be fascinating. I think, and I don't know how it plays out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4846.585

Around the horn going away. Which leaves some sort of hole, which I guess there's been rumors about an hour-long PTI, which I just feel like would happen over Kornheiser's dead body. I was going to say. He's been my friend for a long time. Does Tony want to do that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

486.276

I think we probably did it together. And then I think the Celtics did it last year. I think the Celtics hit that point where there was kind of not a lot to say. They shot a lot of threes. They hadn't won anything yet. And I feel like OKC is in this zone this year. I have some theories for this. OK. Basically, the subject heading would be, why is it not that fun to talk about OKC yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4863.49

He's so maniacally precious about the format of that show and how sustainable it's been for this whole century to then just double it. and be like, all right, more of us, and we're going to have an interview. I just don't see him at his age wanting to do that. Yeah, but didn't he write a book called Back for the Cash? He might have enough cash, though. I think he has enough cash.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4887.861

But I do wonder, I was thinking of PTI and there might be a chance to reinvent that show a little bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4894.305

Because when you think, and I've talked a bunch about how the content cycle has shifted in the last 15 years that I've been doing this, where it's just gotten faster and faster to the point that Sal and I went from taping Monday afternoons in the late 2000s, Guest Alliance, to now we're doing it like literally right after an NBC game ends. And you have these guys coming out at 5.30 ESPN.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4917.498

And it's like, if you don't watch that show when it's happening, it's got like maybe a two, three hour shelf life because we're going right into sports. So it's like Luka Doncic's first game back in LA. First home game. What do you think is going to happen tonight, Wilbon? Like you can't listen to that nine hours later. So I do wonder, is there a chance to reinvent the show?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4935.805

Do you think it's just too stuck in its ways at this point, Curtis, or what happens?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4945.008

Do you rebuild it? Do you rebuild the structure? Cause I think if you were doing that show now, you'd probably want it to be on at 10 in the morning. I think you would want it to be on coming off the night or nine in the morning. You'd want it coming off the night before with the same format go, I think would be a bigger advantage. I think the five 30 is really hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

4966.192

I mean, have you thought about that? We're so low. Like, I remember the six sometimes when we do pods late, I feel like it's like, this feels almost stale now when it's going to come out. Yeah. Think about what the six o'clock sports center was.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5004.633

It's pretty rare at that point. You're thinking about the games that are about to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

507.554

Because they just dusted Denver tonight and they have a guy who's going to win the MVP. And yet everybody's like, what is your opinion for why this is not fun yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5112.867

What do you think, Curtis? What is PTI two years from now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5221.644

You just run video podcasts of stuff you already did. Just just kind of chew up innings with that and save a ton of money. It is an interesting question.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5272.335

I had a great TV viewing experience the other day. Although it was a sad one too, but the Bruins are trading Marshan and there were rumors like he might be going. And my dad texted me. I'm like, what? So I'm trying to find like, is there an NHL trade deadline show? What's going on here? ended up on the NHL network. It was just two dudes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5295.111

The show is out of like 1981 and they're going through info and it's this thing is happening. I was watching it consuming in a way. And I, like that's, that's where those shows still have an impact. where it's like, this just happened. How do I get information about it? You know, you'll see it like NBA trade deadlines like that or like the day of free agency in the NBA on July 1st.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Or NFL, something happens on a Tuesday. You know, there's a trade or somebody's out for the year. It seems like the immediacy of this just happened. How do I just get any sort of information? I don't even care. I honestly don't know the names of the two guys who hosted this NHL show, but I watched it for like 45 minutes. Like they did. They didn't. It's a, it's a conditional second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5341.978

What's going on? Um, yeah, that's my NHL network story. Priscilla seems like he's enjoying it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5473.92

There were trades and there is like a five person trade and I didn't know who any of the five people were. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Surprised they did that. You have to have opinions on that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5520.981

Curtis would like this story. So I'm a kid. I'm staying at my mom's house in Connecticut. And I don't think it was the fan. It was even a New York sports station that wasn't a fan. And Dave Sims was hosting like a NBA draft show. And you remember being a kid in the eighties, there's just no information.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5541.568

You don't know any, you might be like sports illustrated, might have like, here's, here's how we think the top 13 in the draft is going to be like, Oh my God. Like there was just nothing. You couldn't find anything about anything. And there was this radio show and they just did the draft for like three, four hours. And I, I, like you could have, a bulldozer could have driven through my, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Do you think wind horse is like, fuck man, I was going to play golf tomorrow. Now I'm on a connecting flight to Hartford because they need me to get in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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I got to say, the Luka thing he did when the Celts went up 3-0 in the finals, because I actually watched that. After Luka got traded, I'm just consuming everything, trying to figure out what could have happened. And it was like a pre-planned monologue in his head. He's doing it stand up on the court. He clearly had something to say.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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I'm about to have fun talking about SGA with you just like three minutes from now, but I'm just flagging that for you now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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He also clearly had information from somebody on the Dallas side that colored why he was doing this. And he was really convicted about it. And he was like, this is a real problem for this team. That this guy is handling big games and big moments like this. He hurt the team today. He's got to fix this. And now when you look back at that moment, I haven't talked to him about it, but

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5740.836

You know, that was probably the genesis of when that trade happened, that finals, where we still think it's the dumbest NBA trade of our lifetimes, but that was probably where they were like, this fucking guy And it just, that was it. And they just start complaining about him and complaining about him behind the scenes. And that's it. But yeah, people are, there's still good journalism out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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And I also feel like the bar of people kind of policing it has been really good. I think people are getting away with a lot less chicanery and putting out false shit. Nobody wants to be wrong. I think people are really careful about when they put something out. And occasionally we get a fight at a Starbucks at the combine. We're from Howard Schultz's son. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5786.392

Did you leave the press box with that? Or was that just a deep dive investigation after the fact?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5838.08

I haven't really talked to you about this, but McShay and I text a little bit now. Interesting. I'll just sometimes text him football stuff and then he'll text me back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

5854.506

Yeah, I'm on a thread with Solo's roommate and conspiracy theorist extraordinaire, Timmy. And it's one of my favorite threads.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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It started with a UFO conversation in Denver and then we just kept going. Hey, welcome to a special part of the show, which is brought to you today by Audi with their all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron wanted to do. This isn't like, we're not going to do like a recap of Celtic city each episode, but I want to do like one little piece of,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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from each episode that I thought we could talk about in a modern context. So the first episode, a lot of it's about Bob Cousy, who I feel like has this fascinating, big picture, whatever he means in the context of American sports in the 21st century. It's either underrated or overrated, but it's not what I think people think. He's the most popular player of the first 15 years of the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He was the first exciting player the league ever had. And he actually should be discussed maybe a little more reverentially than he is. And instead, the only time he's been discussed this decade was JJ when he did the plumbers, that whole plumbers thing that he did when he kind of disparaged the first 15 years of the league and people got upset about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But Curtis, just as a sports historian, Bob Cousy, big picture. What are your immediate thoughts?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Even Boston last year, who'd had the scars and had some tough losses and gotten in the finals and it was still the same thing. Well, you know, we'll see, we'll see if they can win four rounds. Um, I think there's a couple issues with OKC. None of them are their fault. One is that they're new. Two is that there's nothing polarizing about them whatsoever. There's no argument.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Every once in a while, Bob Boos is still alive and he's still proud to be a Celtic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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It's interesting to look at the anniversary teams because they would do... They did like a 25th anniversary team for the NBA in like 1971. And Koozie was... you know, clearly on that. He's one of the 10 guys. And then you do, you know, the 40th anniversary, he's still there, and the 50th anniversary.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But just as the years pass, you just start getting shoved out, right, for the newer guys or the legends. And the thing with him, there's all these different time machine guys that would be so much fun if you could just take them out and put them in a different era. Like, you could take... I don't know, Jason Tatum right now and put him in 1955 and people would be like, what's happening?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Koozie would be fun in the reverse. Like if he just came into the way the league's played now or it's just like, he's just going nuts, throwing like these behind the back crazy passes. He's always trying to do fast breaks. How does this play out, Rosillo?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Well, have you ever, Kuzis talked about this. When you dribbled back then, you, you couldn't carry the ball. You couldn't carry it under. You had to literally dribble like that. And you're playing in these shitty sneakers. It's like night and day. It's like comparing automobiles from the 1950s to now. I think the passing, the highlights are still really fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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We had a bunch of them in the first episode. The behind the head, the way he would bring guys in. Everybody was in play when he was the point guard. I do miss, I feel like that type of point guard is... doesn't really exist anymore, right? You're almost like a score slash distributor. Now you're more like a Darius Garland type. Rondo is probably maybe the last...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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There's no like, I'm going to sit in a sports bar and have an OKC argument about Jalen Williams or Chet Holmgren. They've just done everything correctly. They've added talent really smartly. They built a fun team. I think their eight, nine-man rotation is pretty unassailably put together. They have all these picks coming. And there's no zag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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kind of piece of whatever Kuzi was way, way back then. The way Rondo played, I think, was... I don't know if we'll see it again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Curtis, in the 80s, it was Koozie and Heinsohn. with Mike Gorman. Kuzi was the third guy, a bunch. And it was amazing. And it's still like up there for my favorite announcing teams of all time because Kuzi and Heinsohn had this, you know, amazing relationship where they over, I think they overlapped for one year at Holy Cross. They played together for,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh no, they didn't overlap at Holy Cross, but they both went to Holy Cross and then they played together with the Celtics, I think for seven years. So they just, there was this real friendship with them. And they were also like pretty critical of, you know, they had a combined like 15 rings. So they'd be critical of the players they were watching. And it was just like hanging out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was like a podcast. It was amazing. Kuzi had that, there were just names he couldn't say because he had that crazy French accent. like he Rajan Rondo just would have been unachievable for Kuzu. There's no way he was even going near it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Especially when the team was bad. Well, Curtis, you remember Bill Walton when he did the NBC in the mid-90s. was considered so negative. I think they had to take him off. I think it actually like he, he was like too critical because it's another thing. Like, but Walton was one of the best 30 players, 35 players of all time. So he would watch somebody suck and he would just call it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And whenever there's not a zag, I think people have struggle. They struggle to figure out like, well, how do we talk about this then? Because you just end up going, this team's great. This team's awesome. But you watch them today and this team, I think the thing that is so impressive to me is that they can linger in these games and they'll be up like four, they'll be up three, they'll be up six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think it got too negative even for, uh, NBA coverage. You remember that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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He's killing everybody. It's funny because he's such a happy, joyous guy. It just was a thing. Anyway, the all new fully electric Audi Q6 e-tron, a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration. the most advanced tech of any audio ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage or the panoramic digital stage.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

64.55

player performance bet placed on any of the Tuesday games. So Washington, Detroit, Milwaukee, Indiana. That's a fun one because Indiana always plays well against Milwaukee. Maybe grab some Halliburton with Indiana to win. Stay tuned for my picks on Tuesday on Twitter. Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook app.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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What's your car strategy when you have the kid in the car, Curtis? iPad, just nothing. Look out the window. What do you do?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Well, you got a panoramic digital stage in the Audi, plus an optional screen for front seat passengers. Perfect for watching the latest sports documentary. The Q6 e-tron, not just the new EV, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more at AudiUSA.com. Always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. Before you go, Curtis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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So ESPN premiered their three-man lineup after the All-Star or three-broadcaster lineup. Doris, Richard Jefferson, and Breen. NBC announced that they're signing Reggie Miller to be the person next year. And it's just weird to me. It seems like in the NBA, for whatever reason, and maybe it's because they make too much money as players and the studio gig is easier. You get to whoever you want.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But it seems like the big names kind of gravitate to the studios. and not the games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because you love Van Gundy. And I still, I went like I'd probably was too down on Van Gundy because I didn't really think about what it was going to be like when we didn't have him. And I really missed him in a game like last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then they'll just have this 8-0 run out of nowhere and all of a sudden the game's 14-15. It's not even threes. It's like defense. It's a second chance rebound. It's SGA just scoring six points in a row. I think they're really scary. Do I think Denver could beat them in a series or the Lakers just by slowing things down by the pressure going up?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think there's enough time in basketball for the three people. And even like the Breen, Van Gundy, Jackson. Jackson really laid out. I mean, Jackson was... I don't know. It was Van Gundy's broadcast and then Jackson would chime in with stuff. But the balance, the usage rate... Jackson was lower. I think it's a hard thing to navigate because those games, it goes by so fast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You have like a five, six minute stretch. That's just, it's going, going, going, going. I thought Steve Kerr was the best one that I'd heard. Um, there was even a moment this year when I was thinking when it seemed like the worst season might be going sideways, like, oh shit, could we get Steve back for TV? Cause that would be incredible. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think it's probably a coach who's recently... I think Doc could have been really good last year if he hadn't left after 40 games. I think it's probably a coach... who has recently gone against everybody he's calling the games is probably the biggest advantage for this. And then the ability to actually be candid about what they're seeing. He's got to be done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm out. And now I'm going to be letting it fly from now on. But the other problem is, I think Wade could have been really interesting if he had just been like, all I want to do is be a TV color guy for games. But Wade's made $400 million or $380 million, whatever it was. He owns a piece of Utah. So I don't know if the money is the same. Whereas the NFL could be like, no, Tom Brady, come do this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Here's $35 million. Or hey, Troy Aikman, keep doing this. Here's a lot of money. The money is just different. I just don't think it matters as much in basketball. In football, there's a weightiness you kind of need. for a big game, you really want to be in good hands with the right announcers. You really want to have them walk you through stuff and teach you stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know if basketball needs that as much. Do you think it needs it, Priscilla? Like, do you feel like we needed like the greatest announcers ever for OKC Denver today? Because for the most part, you kind of know what's happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Legs did a good job today. That was one of the reasons I thought about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

681.48

I wouldn't say no way, but OKC just has so many advantages. You mentioned the two bigs thing today. Their malleability now when they do that versus when they can go small, that's something they just didn't have last year. But the SGA piece of it, I was looking at it. I was looking at all the best guard seasons. He's having one of the best guard seasons, non-MJ, in the history of the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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One thing I liked about Van Gundy that I miss now, and I actually thought the game last night needed, maybe Jefferson could get there. There is a, you know, there's the what's happening in the game. You have that whole piece. What are the storylines coming to the game? Van Gundy was really good at like the Celtics last night. Tatum just doesn't come out for the whole first quarter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They start the second quarter. Joe Maz leaves him out. He plays in the first 18 minutes of the game. And at some point during that, because I was texting with Celtic friends about it, we're like, oh shit, we're treating this like a game seven. Like this is really interesting that we're treating the game this way. Like we're going big minutes for the best guys in the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, hmm, this is an interesting subplot that's developing. And they just didn't talk about it on the broadcast. And I always thought Van Gundy, stuff like that didn't slide by him. And that's like kind of the last thing is like, when some sort of big thing is developing out of a game, you got to see it immediately. And if you don't, then why are you there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I remember when Jalen and I did a game with Tariko, we did like a Celtic Laker game, 2013 or 14. And Tariqo just let us do our thing for like 42, 43 minutes. Then last five minutes, it was like, OK, guys, I've got this. Then he just took over the last five. And I was like, oh, yeah, because it's ultimately it's a play by play sport. All right. I could talk about this stuff all day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Curtis, what do you care about this week for the pot or anything?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

7049.011

We got the Cuban interview. That one is like, just apologize. You got it wrong. If you're going to have a platform, apologize when you fuck stuff up. That's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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When you're talking about team success, his like his production, his consistency. That was his, his, uh, 40th 30 point game today. He had another 40 point game, the way that he's played against other big teams, how consistent he is night to night, how unstoppable he kind of is. Um, I think that's probably the number one talking point with them now for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He did express concern that Luca did not seem healthy. That was his thing. My dad was always scared of the Lakers with Davis. That was a real thing for him. He's always scared of teams with size in the playoffs when things slow down. So there you go. Before we go, quick question, Marcelo. So I was tweeting about, does the NFL salary cap matter when it goes up $30 million a year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, it's unbelievable. Why do we do these like hundred best free agents coming up and all of them are just going to resign with their teams because you can just spend whatever you want. Miles Garrett having a change of heart. Right. That was great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, the more I'm thinking about it. Once you put that four... in the yearly salary instead of the three. I really started to like Cleveland a lot more. Is this bad for Parsons and the Cowboys though? It feels like it might be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, because with the cap, I get it. I understand. It keeps going up. And all you're doing is just pushing money to the next year and hoping that at some point you don't have to pay the piper. And then if you get in a Russell Wilson Denver situation, that's when it goes bad. Where it's like you keep pushing the money and then it's like, oh, this guy didn't work out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now we are completely fucked for an entire season. But for the most part, it just seems like these teams can just... You know, Dallas is going to be able to afford Parsons. It just seems like all these teams can afford whoever they want. Well, because they can.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Doesn't seem like it. Well, there's one way. I mean, you can, but not really.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If you have the Deshaun Watson, Russell Wilson, like big money thing that goes completely wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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731.183

It's like, where does this SGA season rank against some of the other great guard seasons we've seen in our lifetime? When you talk about Kobe and Harden and Curry and even somebody like Jordan, statistically, he's moved into that stratosphere, which to me is the biggest surprise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

7322.786

Yeah, the Pats needed a left tackle and still do. And there was this long list of free agent left tackles and now all of them are gone. And then it's a complete panic on the Pats fans text threads because it's like our two choices now are to overpay somebody who's not good or to take a guy who might end up being a guard instead of a tackle with the fourth pick in the draft.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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And it's just like, I thought we were getting Ronnie Stanley. That was on everybody's list. Oh, wait, he's going back to the Ravens. I don't get it. My favorite cap thing ever was that whenever the hockey lost its mind and people were given like 20-year contracts as a cap, Remember that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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And it was like, this guy's going to have a 20-year, $80 million contract, and it gets spread out. It's like, what's going on? All right, Brian Curtis, great to see you as always. Russillo, I will see you next Sunday. I'm sure we'll see you at a home Lakers game since you're the new Diane Cannon. Kovalchuk, 17 years, $102 million with the Devils.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It would not be good. All right. Good to see you. See you next week, Priscilla.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Saruti and Gahal and Kyle. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. I hope you watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. Don't forget about the rewatchables coming Monday night. We did best in show. Threatening to become sports movie month. Who knows? And then a prestige TV podcast where we're hitting white Lotus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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We're also covering severance on there too. I'm not on that pod, but I am on the white Lotus recap pods on Sunday nights. And I have an absolute shitload of fun doing those with Mallory and Joanna. I will see you on this podcast on Tuesday. I,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call

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call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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This Tuesday, I have Ryan Russillo come up in a second. We taped right after this. the OKC Denver game. And then Brian Curtis is going to join us midway through to talk about some of the crazy sports media shit that's going on and also some big picture sports media stuff. So this is an action-packed two hours. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping. It's 1230 Pacific time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Yeah, and they're in the same issue the Celtics are in with that top of the second quarter, top of the fourth quarter. Can Jalen Williams run the offense for like four or five minutes, which is the Jalen Brown issue with the Celtics sometimes. The SGA piece of it, just because I've been watching him really closely because I've been trying to think like if the Celtics see him in the finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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Is there a way to defend this? What is he doing exactly? Right. And he's got basically three different things that he vacillates between. He has that thing. You just go to the basket. Like if you, if you fall asleep for a split second, he's got this first step and he can get to the rim and he can finish. But then he also has the, I'm going to pretend I'm going to do the get to the rim thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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And I just stop. And there's no way your body momentum can stop with me. And then I'm going to be elevating as you're still trying to catch up. And I make a 15 footer. But then the third thing he does, and I don't know how you stop it. And he did it a couple of times in the fourth quarter today. He has the ball like, you know, top of the three, three point line, top of the key.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

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And people are defending him and they're doing everything perfectly. And it just seems like he's trying to decide what to do and whether he wants to swing the ball. And then he'll just, he'll, he'll make like a subtle and all of a sudden he's shooting. And every single time the team is a split second late, I'm realizing he's about to take an 18-footer. And I don't know how he does it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

SGA vs. Jokic, Celts-Lakers, and the State of NBA Media With Ryen Russillo and Bryan Curtis

983.784

I've never seen a guard... get these shots that he wants without the defense realizing that that's the shot he was setting up for. Like Brunson will do different versions of this, right? He has his little spots on the court and he has that herky jerker style, but I always know he's going to shoot SGA shooting as I'm registering.

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Philly Ruins the Chiefs and Mahomes Craps the Bed With Cousin Sal

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That's it. I don't want to hear it. I'm done. Get it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Philly Ruins the Chiefs and Mahomes Craps the Bed With Cousin Sal

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Well, they checked the prices out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Philly Ruins the Chiefs and Mahomes Craps the Bed With Cousin Sal

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You can take that out of Kelsey. Take her too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Philly Ruins the Chiefs and Mahomes Craps the Bed With Cousin Sal

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Very, very, very excited about it. Keep an eye out for it early in the week. We are making an addition to the Ringer Podcast Network and to Spotify. And I'm pumped. So keep your eyes out.

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Soto’s a Met, KC Doinks It Up, Bleakest NFL Franchises, Rams-Bills Bliss, and Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

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This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck because every episode of The Rewatchables and The Big Picture now on YouTube.

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They basically got two drives where they just bully balled the Chiefs down the field, which was unusual.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Chiefs now 12-1. They clinched their division. It looks like it's probably the one seed for them now. There's only four games left. The Steelers, I would say, maybe have a chance. because they play them. But don't the Chiefs and Steelers play on Christmas?

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Really? It's going to be three days rest for everybody? They play on a Saturday and then a Wednesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you would say maybe the Steelers, if they beat them and then the Chiefs lost one more and the Steelers ran the slate, but I'm not seeing it. It feels like they're going to win games like this. Yeah. Come on. Clanking it off the post. Ridiculous team. So then that two seed goes between Buffalo and Pittsburgh, who are both 10 and three. And I'm going to say this, Sal. Yeah.

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I officially think Pittsburgh's the best team in the AFC. Come on. You can't after a Jameis game. You can't claim that. I think they're the best team. I feel the safest about them if you start nitpicking all these AFC teams. Really? I feel the most comfortable with Pittsburgh. Um, great defense. I think their defense can make plays, create turnovers, create pressure. They can cover.

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I just, I just like them. They can run the ball. They always seem to get like two or three 30 to 40 yard plays per game or a pass interference or something. They have unbelievable special teams. They have the best field goal kicker in the conference. They're going to have home court, home field advantage for at least the first two rounds. And they have an awesome coach.

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And I just think, I think right now, and I'll feel free to change my mind in two weeks, but right now I feel the best about them, all the AFC teams. Buffalo's defense, you saw it today. This Chiefs team can't get to 20 points. I think if the Steelers played the Chiefs right now is what we're watching from the Chiefs and that the Steelers would beat them.

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I'm judging the three months. I'm just been really impressed by... I thought they should have won the Colts game. Right? That Browns Thursday game, they had the lead with three minutes left. And, you know, that was stupid. I just think they've been the most impressively consistent team in the AFC this year. With that said...

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I'd have to take a big gulp before I went against my homes in a playoff game, especially if it was in Kansas city. But I don't know. I Pittsburgh week after week, people keep looking for reasons not to even today. Pickens got scratched. Like, Oh my God. The Cleveland. And it's like, they're fine.

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I think it's rock, paper, scissors. Because... The Chiefs can't get explosive plays. So if they played Buffalo, that's actually bad if you're the Chiefs, right? Because the way to beat the Chiefs is to basically move the bottom. I think the Steelers could get explosive plays on the Bills. I think they would beat the Bills.

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But I think the Bills, the way they're set up right now, would probably beat the Chiefs. Yeah. And then maybe the Chiefs would beat the Steelers because it would be an 18 to 16 type game, which they specialize in. So maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's our answer. Maybe that's it.

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Well, let's switch topics to that because that was the game of the season so far. I had some clinching questions. So the first clinching question was, did Bill's Rams clinch game of the season so far?

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There were some good ones over the first third. Even the week one, that Baltimore-KC game was really good. There's been some good ones.

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I didn't have that one. There's been a couple good Lions games. Lions-Packers on Thursday was good. Yeah. What was cool about this one was the Rams took that big lead and it was not a turn off the channel game. It was like, all right, Josh will get this back.

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Josh will bring them back into this. They had 54 plays and scored 42 points. What was that stat Hench set us? They scored six touchdowns with zero turnovers. The first team, 255 to lose. It's never been done. Yeah, exactly.

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And they use him as a running back. And he's like one of the best black and receivers in the league. Right. And just seems like he can get open whenever he wants. He's kind of like the 2.0 version of Debo. Like whatever we thought Devo was, he's a better version of it. But more remarkable catches. Oh, yeah.

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It seems like now that those two guys are healthy, anytime he had like third and seven, third and nine, third and five, and they put those two guys on the same side and you didn't know if they were going to run little pick plays for each other or what, it just felt like one of them was getting open. Absolutely.

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Rams had 457 yards on nine drives. They were 11 for 15 on third down. And... It seemed like if the Bills had scored fast enough with the three timeouts, somehow they had a chance to possibly steal the game, leading to one of the weirdest calls of the season where they do QB sneak on first down.

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They don't get it, and they call timeout, which immediately made it impossible for them to just kick off and get the stops, which Brady, who was fantastic today for him, I thought he was really good. Really? Brady called it out even before the first down. He's like, you don't want to QB sneak here because if you don't get it, then you're going to burn too much clock or use the timeout.

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He spelled out everything that was about to happen and then it happened.

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Right. Yeah. The play probably has to be like a rollout. Where he's either going to run it or pass quick or throw it out of bounds. Or like a shotgun quick pass like the Malcolm Butler play, something like that. But the thing you can't do is the QB sneak. And then you can't then also call a timeout and ruin your chance. I'm always amazed that these coaches... blow the basic like video game stuff.

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Do you think because of the YouTube multi-view and some of this other stuff and we're just watching all these games and we're seeing so many situations, we're getting in our 10,000 hours for game management now? I feel like I'm at the peak of my powers. Yeah, sure. I watch these games. I'm just like, oh, yeah, clearly you should never keep a sneaker.

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But maybe when you're on the field and it's going so fast and there's 90 things you're worrying about, sometimes you lose like a sense of just what the most normal thing to do would be, which would be to not sneak it there.

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I don't think a lot of this stuff is that hard. It's like if you have the three timeouts... and there's under two minutes left, and it's a two-score game, and you can somehow score a touchdown and keep your three timeouts. That's the goal. You want to be able to kick off and try to get a stop and hopefully get the ball back for a field goal would be the idea, which they almost pulled off.

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Ultimately, for the Bills, not a big deal because they're going to be the two-seeded or three-seeded. They've already clinched the AFC East a week ago. There's no chance they can follow the four-seeded. They weren't going to catch the Chiefs probably anyway. And Josh, I think, probably clinched the MVP once and for all today.

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It was the rare loss that helped clinch somebody's NBA. Meanwhile, Lamar didn't even play. Oh.

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That's not happening. Sorry, Saquon. Tom Brady was good. And I think, you know, there are only three games. And I just, I put the three on the one TV together because I wanted to watch basketball. Sorry. And I gave Brady the audio and I really listened like for the three hours. And he's changed a couple of things that I thought were really important.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like he's, he's definitely, it feels like you're hanging out with them a little bit more. Yeah. Um, he's reacting to what he's seeing. He's not doing like, Oh, I have prep on this situation. I'm now I'm going to do my prep. It doesn't feel like he's overproduced, but what we got, and I don't know if it was a case of like, we just had two awesome quarterbacks.

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And when it's awesome quarterbacks, he can put himself in the mind of the quarterback, but he was pointing out like, Oh, here's what, and Burkhart was doing a good job of saying, um, hey, when they're using all those words at the line, what does that mean? And then Brady's like, well, here's what that means. And that's like, that's exactly what I want from him.

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And then he was explaining like how to, how they're using the receivers, how they were exploiting certain things, the game management stuff he was all over. I thought he was excellent.

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And like Nakua had that incredible catch when he kept his feet in and Brady got so excited. It got me excited. Cause I'm like, this guy's the best quarterback ever. If he's that excited about that catch, that must've been an awesome catch. So anyway, I think the Brady thing, it started out as rocky as you would have thought.

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Is that what it was? 765 for 15. The Yankees were at 760 for 16. And then Boris is like, do you want to drop the 16th year and just go 15? And the Yanks were like, that's too rich for our blood. That's crazy. We can't do that. That was it. When did you get over like 600 million? At what point?

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I thought it was getting worse, like around week seven, week eight, week nine, which we talked about on the pod. And Thanksgiving was a little better. And I thought today was really encouraging. I really feel like he's getting the hang of it.

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If you had Cooper Rush against Drew Locke, I wonder if it would have been that great. Did the NFC West clinch Division, you've changed your mind on the most status today. Because we've had yet another shift at the top. Seattle's now 8-5 in the driver's seat, and they were dead two weeks ago.

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But they're done. They lost to Seattle twice, and they're two back. Like, it's a wrap.

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Yeah, they ran the ball. There are two running backs that weren't Kenneth Walker, 29 for 172. Gino, no turnovers. And they got the middle of their defensive lineback. My big fear with them is that they couldn't block, but they actually seem like they blocked a little bit better today. We have a lot of future stuff with Seattle.

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That was, I think, the one I had. I had division bets with them. I had over bets with them. Yeah. make the playoff bets, all kinds of things that look pretty bleak a couple weeks ago. Now we look at them. I actually think they might be good. I don't know if they're on the Detroit, Green Bay, maybe even Minnesota, Philly level.

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They're probably fifth in that group, but they have a bunch of good players on both sides of the ball. When Geno's not making any mistakes, you watch him and you go, All right, I get this. So I think they're going to be their three seed right now. They would be playing Green Bay in the 3-6. I like it.

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Wait, can we hold it for one second? I just want to rip through the NFC West quick. Arizona's 6-7. They're done. Niners are 6-7. Not totally done, but... You also have Washington at eight and five with the last wildcard spot that who the hell knows what's going to happen with them. They have New Orleans on the road this week. Home Philly, home Atlanta.

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At Dallas, I would assume that gets them to at least 10 wins, which would knock out a couple of these teams.

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But Seattle has Green Bay home, Minnesota home, Chicago on the road, Rams on the road. And then the Rams have San Francisco and the Jets on the road. Home, Zona. Home, Seattle. So it might come down to that Rams-Seattle game.

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That was the one. So that was the bet I lost this week. I did well this week. And that was the one. And I didn't just lose it. It was an annihilation. They look good, but the bears also look bad. There's no such thing as the new coach, but apparently, but I don't know what to believe with the Niners is that the bears were just bad or the Niners back. Like I, I honestly don't know.

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It's dead. Two yards. We had the Jets didn't cover with the new coach, and they didn't cover. The Clogger covered. Right. So...

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There's one Arizona question that we have to ask, because Kyler sucked again today. He had two terrible... And that game against Seattle a couple weeks ago, he had that awful play on fourth to one that basically was the swing that blew the game for them. And Harrison, considering he's the fourth pick in the draft, I can't say he's been jumping off my TV.

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Arizona was six and four three weeks ago, and we were feeling good about them. And I liked them. I liked how they were playing. And now I'm wondering, what are these last four weeks going to mean for Kyler? And is this the guy that's going to be the QB for them? Because they don't have a huge fan base. They're not going to be leading first take tomorrow. Nobody really cares.

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But, you know, this has been a recurring thing with Kyler where it feels like he can keep you around, but he's not quite good enough. He can do the garbage time TD at the end of the game that makes it seem like the game was closer than it was. But I just, we have a lot of evidence now that you might not be able to trust him against a good defense.

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Yeah. Well, Bowers turned out to be the receiver from the draft. All right, your guy, Sam Darnold. So 347 yards, five TDs today. He's had clutch games over and over again. Last week brought them down to win it. Today, like that Falcons game was a little closer. So I'm sure you watched it too. Like I know the score and I had to blow up, but yeah.

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I was nervous about the Falcons for two hours in that game. And Darnold was just winging it downfield. He really has energy with Jefferson and Addison. Addison, about three touchdowns? Crazy. So he has almost 3,300 yards, Darnold. 28 touchdowns and 10 picks. And if they are in round one, he'll probably be like a four-plus-point favorite. He's on a one-year deal. They have J.J. McCarthy.

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I'd be really hesitant not to bring him back. I think they have to. Today was the first day where I was like, wow, they might have actually found their QB and maybe they should think about trading J.J. McCarthy.

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Baker Mayfield, you know, on a smaller scale. But I would say Darnold has a higher upside than both of them because of the pedigree he had once upon a time.

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Maybe the Seahawks if they can't agree to a deal with Geno. And maybe the Niners if they can't figure out a Brock Purdy extension. And I was looking at those teams and it's like, if you're Vegas and you could get Sam Darnold and you draft Travis Hunter and you have the money to spend, I'm probably doing that. This guy, the Niners really liked him. The Vikings seem like they love him.

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And then if I'm the Vikings... I don't know. I'd have to really think about this one. He's only 27. It's not like he's Kirk Cousins. He's not 37, like heading into his late thirties. Like this is, he's entering the prime of his career. He's playing great. Right. Yeah. And he has real chemistry with the receivers.

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Yeah, if you're just watching them on red zone and you're just seeing the highlights, you've probably seen some of the long passes. The thing that jumps out to me is they're really nice, long, beautiful on-target passes. He got lucky today with the first touchdown he had. His arm kind of got touched so it was an underthrow and Addison made a great play. But when you have two weapons like that,

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You want a guy who's not afraid to wing it downfield and who has the confidence to, and if he makes a mistake, is going to come back. I think that's been the thing that's been the most impressive with him. He gets them out of trouble. We're at the point, if I was a Jets fan, I'd actually be legitimately bummed out about it. The good news is there's like a hundred things.

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I know he's been on three teams. Listen, I get it. He's been on three teams since. But I was like, oh, my God. Like, really? This guy's like this good?

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So I remember in the 70s when we plunk it was the number one pick for the Pats. And he just got the shit kicked out of him. They end up like trading him. He gets waived. Then he ends up in the Raiders in the Super Bowl. And our quarterbacks were terrible when I was a kid. And then Plunkett's like winning the Super Bowl. And it was kind of like, wait, what's going on? We had this guy?

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2374.821

it's tough with these late bloomer reclamation guys. Cause you know, that, that case Keenum year we were doing pods and it was legitimate. Like he was moving the ball and making plays, but you know, physically he wasn't a big guy. He didn't have like a cannon arm. And there was, you knew there was some smoke and mirrors in it as it was happening, but they were winning with them.

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2393.749

So you couldn't say much. Darnold's like kind of checks all the boxes for, I don't think he would be a top seven quarterback, but he has the size. He has the arm. He has the confidence. He can move around. He had one touchdown that he created today where he somehow did this Jedi fucking move to get out of it. It seemed like he was going to get sacked and bought time and just winged it down.

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2416.432

It's a touchdown. I'm really impressed. My buddy, who's a Vikes fan, loves him. He just loved Arnold. I don't want him to go.

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242.507

We beat the Yankees. That's all I care about. I was delighted because this really ruins the Yankees. There's no plan B. This was the guy. They have this short window with Judge and Cole, and this was the guy they were grooming to be the next major guy. And now, what do you do if you're the Yankees? Plus, you lose them to the Mets, the team that for the last...

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2487.637

Well, the thing with them, they won a couple stupid games. early on, right? Like that Jets game in London in week five when the Jets felt like the Jets were going to win the game and they didn't. They lost to Detroit the Rams twice in a row. They had that weird stretch where they beat Indy and the Jags and Tennessee all in a row. And it's like, what is this?

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2511.277

They barely beat the Bears in a game that it felt like the Bears should have won. Then last week against Arizona, Arizona had the game. It was 19-6. It felt like it was over. This was a real statement game for them. And it was also a statement for Atlanta because I don't know how long. I just can't imagine they can keep playing Cousins.

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2552.718

We talked about this last week, right? Like, they had that six weeks after they signed him. Right. In March, yeah. Did they know something from those six weeks? Mm-hmm. Cousins, zero TDs in the last four weeks, six picks in the last two weeks, and two awful, awful, awful picks today. I mean, the problem with them is they're not just interceptions. They're horrible.

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2575.823

They're like suck the life out of the team. Bad place. And like him compared to Darnold, there was no contest. If you said which one of these guys got 100 million guaranteed last year to somebody who just woke up from a coma, they would have thought it was Darnold.

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2604.091

That's when I felt like he had a couple that got into the low forties today. Oh, that's good. All right. Do you, there's this narrative about how the giants actually probably need Sam Darnold the most, but they can't sign him cause he was on the jets and they'd be bringing him back to giant stadium.

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2621.6

I think that's stupid, but I also can't speak for the despair of Giants and Jets fans these days, but to get somebody that was a Jets cast off mentally is some sort of invisible hump for them, apparently.

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263.669

What really since like the mid 90s, you've been kind of kicking their butt. The Mets had a couple of little tiny runs here and there. But for the most part, it just felt like the Yankees were in the driver's seat. And now it doesn't. Now you just have this rich owner who doesn't care. Yeah, that's it. That's just like, here's how much.

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2685.785

I made a business decision to not watch that game or Jags Titans and concentrate on all the other ones. And one of the games switched over to, to giant saints, right? As like that big drew lock drive at the end, big, long scramble, turn your head.

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2701.468

No, I realized that I should have actually been more focused on it because if the Giants won, the Pats would have gotten, they would have been the number two pick in the draft, basically, unless they win again. And so all of a sudden, I'm rooting for the Giants. And then, of course, they Giantsed it up at the end. That was it. So Pats are at the number three spot right now.

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2725.706

So Tampa has, Tampa is up by a game now. in the NFC South. I bet that you made it. I did not, but they have chargers next week at LA at Dallas home for Carolina and a game that's suddenly tough. Cause I guess Carolina is just going to be frisky every game now. And then new Orleans at home. to end it with Derek Carr probably not playing. So I think he might have had a good bet.

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2769.716

Well, and then Aiden O'Connell left. The Riddler came in. Desmond Ritter. He's back. So the Steelers clinched the AFC North. Maybe. I think if they split one of the next two games, they'd probably have it. They'd lead the NFL in takeaways. And the most interesting thing to me about that game was just that they did that well without pickings. And then Mike Williams made a couple plays for them.

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Except they're catching Philly during a week when they looked awful against Carolina. And then A.J. Brown had a really weird interview after. It was just like, the Eagles, they just don't want to be loved. That's who they are. There was too much love for them the last week. People, especially when Detroit's defense got banged up.

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2826.151

Even I was thinking, I thought they had a chance to maybe be the best team in the league with Detroit's defense. you know, kind of cratering. And they barely beat Carolina. And if you missed the game, I know you didn't, but Leggett had the touchdown. He dropped it. The game was over. I thought he caught it. I was furious.

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Like you, I probably had Philly and five UFC NFL parlays that I made yesterday that were lingering over. I'm like, oh my God, really? They're going to lose this? But he dropped it.

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2868.216

You know, when I saw that, that made me think Carolina had a chance because that's just too much money.

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2890.429

I think if Green Bay had beaten Detroit on Thursday and Philly had a chance to be the one seed, they might have approached that game a little differently. Now they're like, eh, we are where we are. They're basically locked into the two seed, right? Yeah, I don't think... There's no scenario where they're not the two seed. They have a three-game lead over Seattle and a four-game lead over Tampa.

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2910.558

Two seed. Bryce Young, though. So, they're on their own two. They're down six. I'm just getting excited for our stupid picks pool because I had Philly... Minus 12 and a half or 13. I'm like, oh, Bryce will throw a pick six and somehow Philly's going to cover. And then he just kind of started marching down the field. Thielen made a couple big plays. I thought Bryce was really impressive.

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2935.279

I thought I had that in my multi-view on for the whole game and was watching some of it. And I thought Bryce, he clearly has salvaged whatever he needed to salvage. He's got to be the guy for them next year.

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2977.051

And that's why I've been so kind of pissy about the Patriots. Because I think when you have these young teams that are going nowhere, once you hit late November, early December... it could go one of two ways. Either you go the way the giants are going, where you've lost eight straight and it's just a comedy of errors.

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2996.871

You can go the way the Patriots are going, where you're looking at every part of the team, other than the quarterback going, are we better at one spot than we were eight weeks ago? And you look at Carolina, they've been in these close games now. I think this was their sixth straight game. There is a point when they look like they might be the worst team in the league.

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3015.877

Well, they're still losing them all. They're losing them all, but starting... They beat the Saints. They beat the Giants. They lost to KC by three. They lost to Tampa by three. They lost to Philly by six and dropped the game-winning touchdown. That's a six-week sample size if you include the bye week. I feel like they won that. But then you look at a team like the Pats.

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3036.785

Even Vegas has shown a little... something, you know, when you consider they probably have the worst quarterback situation in the league.

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3046.435

And they almost beat Casey last week. They kind of hung around against Tampa.

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3058.003

I feel like we could be seven and six. If we had Belichick, we'd be seven and six. That's where I've landed. But with Steve Belichick? If we had Steve Belichick or we had Belichick's girlfriend. We were talking about the Jets, who clinched 2024's most depressing team today. They played actually pretty well the whole game. And Tua was bad, I thought. Thought he was all over the place.

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3083.36

He would have one good throw. He would have a terrible throw. The team had no flow at all. A couple times, it just seems like he's leading his receivers toward a spot where they're just going to get decked. Wado, a couple times, I almost felt like pulled up a little because he's like, nah, I'm not going to stop.

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3111.897

Which is why he's starting it so fast. He gets rid of it in two seconds. He was fine except when he can't, but yeah. And Rogers was okay for how he's been this year, but had some, I mean, the funniest one was he had Wilson open by 30 yards and somehow led him out of bounds on the throw. He caught it. And like, just, it was an 80 yard touchdown with anybody.

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3132.648

Um, but they had the game and it felt like they were going to win two minute warning, uh, They get a first down on Miami's 27. Miami has two timeouts left. Clock ticks down to like under 120. And here's what they did. They ran for minus five, timeout Miami. Rodgers gets sacked for minus six, timeout Miami. Miami has no timeouts left. And we're close to a minute left.

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3156.866

Rodgers throws a 14 yard out to Adams who goes out of bounds with a minute left. Jets kick a field goal, go up three. But now instead of having 15 seconds left, the Dolphins have a minute left. They return the kickoff to midfield. They end up tying it. They win it in OT. It was abominable. But the Jets suck, so nobody cares. But it was about as bad clock management as we've seen this year.

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3193.887

No, they could have kneeled three times and it would have been better. They could have kneeled.

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3242.09

That's a great point. I like it. I'm mad that he has a nickname already, thanks to Lombardi, the DJ, because I think Young Dexter would have been a good nickname too, because he's in Miami. Yeah. He kind of looks like he's just going to go back to some room and plan some murders.

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325.98

So do you feel like you're the 1A in New York now? Like, for real? Yeah. This is it? Yeah, this is it. Our guy John Jastrzemski is disconsolate. I think he knew it was coming. Because, again, they had all their eggs in this basket. You asked how I felt as a Red Sox fan. I never thought the Red Sox were going to be in this. The Red Sox are...

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3265.757

I wonder like... I've been thinking a lot about the head coach stuff. Cause I really hope the pay, I don't think they will, but I'm really hoping the Patriots just get for able. I just don't understand why we wouldn't. He's in the Patriots all fame. I know he's a good coach. Like just let's admit the Mayo thing didn't work. Let's just get for it. Let's get a real coach.

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3282.111

We have this unbelievable quarterback. Like let's not waste one year with this. Let's just get him an awesome coach. And let's try to build around the coach and the quarterback. Like we did for 20 years, Belichick and Brady. Um, But I was thinking about what makes a coach succeed and what doesn't. Over and over again, it's like the hot play caller gets called in.

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3301.427

It's like this amazing defensive whiz or like this guy is like, are we doing this wrong? I guess is my point. Because over and over again, it seems like if they fired Mayo, like we've hired Ben Johnson, the Lions whiz kid offensive coordinator. It's going to be great for Drake May. My response would be, is he? Are we sure? Does he know how to coach like all aspects of the team?

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I know he could probably draw up some cool plays like the DJ.

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But does he know how to like lead men? Does he know, understand game situations? Like we always rave about these great coaches that we have in the league that you and I love to bet on like Tomlin and Andy Reed and you know, the Harbaugh's and these guys, these aren't like whiz kids specialist things. They're like attitude. They got, they're like leaders of men who look for specific things.

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3349.952

They built through the lines. I don't understand why everybody doesn't do that.

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3390.291

Oh, that's a good point. You got to think of, you almost have to think of the post-game YouTube clip or the Twitter clip on that. You're right. For trying to win coach of the year. You almost have to memorize lines like an actor.

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34.5

The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where I'm going to have a new Rewatchables episode for you coming on Monday night. We did a Michael Douglas movie, and that's the only hint I'm going to give you. For this podcast, you can watch tonight's episode on the Spotify feed. Yeah, it's a little bit of a wrinkle.

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3405.184

Campbell uses notes, which I thought was interesting. I don't know if you've noticed that.

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3409.467

He's like, all right, first ball, and he looks down. Maybe that could be Tomlin's edge. Tomlin has no notes. He just knows who to give the game ball to. Teleprompter. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, my point is, I just think the WizKid thing, I think we're going to grow out of that soon. It feels like that goes wrong way more than it goes right.

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3437.591

The Arizona thing went so badly, they paid him to go away during the season.

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Also, all right, let's say Steve Sarkeesian is a good, no, that's not Steve, Steve Spagnuolo. I got my double S's confused. Spagnuolo is a good example. Like he was a head coach, didn't work. Right. He might go to the Hall of Fame as a defensive coordinator. Would you rather be like the most incredible offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator?

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345.834

They're the person that just goes to a bar and pretends they talk to girls all night. And it's like, I got eight numbers. I'm going to text a bunch of girls when I get home. It's like, yeah, you're going home alone. But also, are there going to be any girls available for them in the next five years? This is who they are.

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3466.379

I know you make more money as a coach, but like Josh McDaniels is a good example. He was an excellent offensive coordinator and a terrible head coach. So maybe sometimes it's okay. Maybe to be just like an overqualified, awesome, properly played defensive coordinator versus getting thrown. I know they have to do it. I know it's a bigger job. It's more money. You got to do it, but yeah.

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But yeah, you're running backs, coaches of the commanders.

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3508.269

Remember him? Yeah. That's the thing. These guys get one head coaching job and then they go back and they're like a coordinator or like a linebackers coach or running backs coach or like a D backs coach or a special teams coach. And a lot of times they get their one shot and that's it. But. The big picture point is Vrabel's sitting there.

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3527.101

Belichick might go to college, for God's sakes, because he's so disgruntled. All right, next topic. Oh, I want to do a quick Jets thing. The Jets went 0-7 in these games that they almost won. And I'm just going to remind you of the games really quick. The Denver bad weather game, 10-9, and the guy missed the field goal. Missed the field goal. And they also lost the ball on downs.

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3551.246

Minnesota and London, they had a first down inside the 30, down six, and then Rodgers threw a pick. Bills, 23-20, they lost that. They were midfield, three minutes left, driving Rodgers through a pick. Pats, 25-22, they lost. They missed a two-point to go up seven, and then the Pats drove down the field and won the game on them.

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3572.459

Colts, 28-27, they actually scored, give up a game-winning drive to Anthony Richardson, which that has somehow happened twice this year. Seattle, 26-21, first down inside the 30, lost the ball on downs. And then Dolphins, they lose by six today, and I have no idea how they lost. Is it possible the Jets weren't bad? The Jets are 3-10. Is it possible they actually weren't bad?

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3598.047

Even if they go 4-3 in those games, they're 7-6 right now, like battling for a seventh seed. They can't close games. There are plenty of bad teams that were in one-score games. You could literally pinpoint Rodgers as the reason they're 3-10 instead of 7-6. I didn't realize it was that easy to... Figure out.

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362.532

The Red Sox are just riding on the coattails of the four World Series they won because they know people like me just wanted to see one before they died. And we won four. And they've taken advantage of that for the entire 2020s. I think the thing with Soto, just paying a guy like that once they get 36, 37 and up, you just kind of know where it's going to go.

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3639.414

They were reprehensible for most of that game. They looked like they didn't really want to be there. They looked like they thought the game was three hours later than it was. And they all hustled over and got dressed and just kind of ran out and didn't warm up. I was alarmed by how... And the Jets moved the ball up and down on them the whole game. They didn't have Brees Hall.

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3658.423

It was pretty disgusting, and then Miami ends up winning anyway.

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3686.557

Let's do the most depressing franchise rankings. Okay. Right now. In your opinion, who is the most depressing franchise? If you're a fan and you're looking at the season you're having, the assets you have, your quarterback coach situation, what your picks are, your salary cap situation, the division you're in, the conference you're in, everything. Who should be the most depressed right now?

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3768.254

I had the number one as well. My second pick was the Giants. Hmm. Eight straight losses. Most incompetent NFL franchise, really, for the last decade. If you look at record, you look at all the stuff that's happened with them. They don't have a QB, coach, or GM. I want at least one of the three, if I'm, you know, they're 0 for 3. Today, a plane flew over the stadium that said, Mr. Mara, enough.

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3797.082

Please fix this dumpster fire. Was flying over the stadium. And now they're going to have the number one pick. And it's a draft where nobody really likes the QBs. Yeah. It's rough. And you're going to have to talk yourself into Sam Darnold. I think they have to be second. Would you have anybody over them?

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3824.126

Because I think you could talk yourself into Caleb and they've had some draft picks and...

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So you're really spending all the money in the first 10 years of the contract. Then you have your fingers crossed for the last five, right? Right. It's not like he's like Mookie Betts where he's like this amazing athlete where he's going to be 38 and he'll still be able to play second base and be some sort of impactful player.

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3850.752

Who do you have? I had the Raiders third for me. Oh. They're paying three coaches right now. They have the worst record in the league. They've had no results whatsoever other than that one year they made the playoffs with Carr when Max Crosby was fun. We had Pit Boss Rich. That was fun, I guess. That was good. No QB. I guess Tom Brady is now a part owner, but there's just not a lot going on.

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And I'm in a division now with Mahomes and Harbaugh. And Herbert and Sean Payton. And I'm just bummed if I'm a Raiders fan.

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3934.012

Yeah. All right, go ahead. You go. Jets. They'll unwind this Rodgers thing, but they've spent so much capital and cap, picks, everything. Their fans have no faith in anything they do. They don't have a coach. They don't have a GM. They don't have a quarterback. When you're 0-3, as I said earlier, that's where you get worried. I don't really know what the solutions are.

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3956.456

I guess the good news is they lost today. Those are pretty easy top four for me. Browns, Giants, Raiders, Jets. But anybody else you would put up there? I thought what was interesting about this exercise was... I would have the Panthers in the top three like two months ago. And now, you know, I think they might have found a coach.

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3976.805

And I think they at least have a QB that they know they can bring into the offseason and feel good about. They're going to have another high draft pick. They've paid the Caleb thing. The Caleb trade turned the way Caleb played this year. It's, you know, maybe not going to haunt them in the way we could have thought. So I dropped them down to number eight.

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400.624

Your guy will probably move more toward the Pujol Stanton who'll get bigger, who'll get stiffer. Yeah.

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4002.26

Yeah, because the thinking with the Panthers was they're in such a funky division. That's why I was comparing it. The Bucks and the Saints and the Falcons. All I have to do is find a couple good players. I can go to war. Whereas if I'm the Jags, I'm in a division with Stroud. I don't know. I guess it's not that wisdom.

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4032.288

I had Titans five and Jags six. And the only difference is the Titans definitely don't have a QB. And I don't think they have a coach either or a GM. The Jags might have a QB. Right. That's it. And I do like Brian Thomas. I do like some of the Jags. I do wonder what would happen if you gave them a really good coach next year. So I do think they have some talent.

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4072.271

I had the Bears ninth and the Cowboys tenth. All right. But, you know, it's a distant 10th compared to Jets, Titans, Jags, 4, 5, 6. Like, you're miles away from those teams.

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4086.121

I'm just talking about winning. The Saints, I had number 7. That's another one where I don't really know long-term what you got there. They're probably the weirdest ownership situation ever. Combined with what's going on with the basketball team. No QB. They're in cap hell. Peyton fled them a couple years ago for mysterious reasons. So I think they have to be mentioned as well.

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4118.585

If we didn't have Drake May, we would be in the top five for this competition.

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4126.068

I have the majors, you know. I wore it last week. That's true. Want to do Guest Alliance?

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4137.224

All right. Kyle's going to put the breaks in. Oh. Thursday night, Niners-Rams in San Francisco. Interesting one. A more exciting game than it was a week ago. If you told me like Friday, how excited are you about Niners Rams next Thursday? I would have been like, eh, four. Now it might be like a seven.

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419.977

That's all that matters. So what are the biggest free agent signings of your lifetime? Because I'm old enough to remember, and you are too, when they got George Foster from the Reds. And it was a huge deal. It was one of the big free agent signings in the 70s. And he was awesome on the Reds. He was basically like National League Jim Rice. And then he went to the Mets and it just did not go well.

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4201.17

Good job by you. Something I don't trust about the Rams... It's never easy with them. You know, even today there, what was that score? 35, 13 at one point.

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4213.016

Like that. Just don't never feel comfortable with them. And you watch that offense is so many weapons.

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4220.479

It feels like they, you watch their offense and they seem like they should be the, nobody wants to see these guys in the playoffs, but I feel like people will be fine seeing them. Sunday's marquee game. We had two really good options for this, but I'm going to go with Lions-Bills in Detroit. Jared Goff with a puncher's chance to steal the MVP. I don't think he will.

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4245.458

Bills don't totally need the game, as we mentioned earlier. They're going to be their two-seater, three-seater. Lions kind of need the game because the Vikings won't go away. And the Eagles won't go away either. So I had the Lions by three and a half.

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4284.527

I wonder, it feels like they docked the Lions... at least a point for the defensive injuries. Mm-hmm. Did you see Hutchinson might come back for round three? I saw. That was exciting.

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4316.864

All right. Texans home for the Dolphins. I put some games in the watchables and the fairly watchables because they're kind of loser-leave town matches for at least one of the teams. Like in this case, Texans-Dolphins. I don't think the Dolphins can lose again. I'm not even sure they're a playoff team. But the Broncos are also playing the Colts.

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4339.603

And that's one that normally would be like a fairly watchable, but that's actually a really good game. That's probably a seven seed. And there's a scenario where Dolphins beat the Texans, Colts beat the Broncos, and now all of a sudden we have all these scenarios to figure out. So Houston, Miami, I have the Texans by three and a half over Miami. Oh, do I get this one?

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4367.506

I might bet Houston straight up in that one. I was not impressed by the Dolphins today.

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4373.151

They just look sloppy and asleep would be my scouting report. Broncos, Colts.

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4381.298

You know, Broncos have been tough to gauge how the bookmakers think of them. So I'm going to play it safe. Broncos by three.

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4391.947

Yeah. See, that's what I mean. I can't tell if Fando and company like the Broncos or not, because sometimes it seems like they do, and then other times it seems like they don't. Five and a half's rich.

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4413.875

That was up there, too. So damn good. That was at least the gambling moment of the year. Oh, yeah. Jameis somehow taking the deaths of the one and then throwing another pick. Eagles-Steelers in Philly. This was the other candidate for the marquee game. And I think this has to be Eagles by three. That's what I said. I can't believe this, actually. Four and a half.

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4441.177

See, this is what I was telling you before. People don't see the Steelers thing. And I think it's good for us. All right.

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4455.738

I mean, Tomlin against Philly in Philly getting like four and a half, five. I guarantee I'd pick that game. Chargers home for the Bucs. And the Bucs have been scotch taping it here for a while. Chargers look good today. I had this at three this morning when I did this, but I'm going to bump at a half point. I'm going to say Chargers by three and a half. Oh, shouldn't have bumped. No bump.

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4489.154

God damn it. Why did I touch it? What's going on? I like the Chargers. I think the Bucks are going to have a lot of trouble scoring against them.

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4513.329

Yeah, how many Tampa fans would make the trip from Florida to L.A. in mid-December? Fairly watchables.

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452.759

Bobby Bonilla was a big one. Bonilla was big. Piazza, obviously. You're still paying that one.

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4527.263

In a game that, by law, has to be in the Vegas zone. And I'm going to say Chiefs by five and a half.

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4548.069

I hate them both for various reasons. They just don't know what to make these Chiefs lines anymore. Yeah. They have no idea. Washington is at the Saints. I assume no Derek Carr, which means this line has to be at least three and a half. And that's what I'm going to guess. Washington by three and a half.

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4583.087

I don't love it. Last fairly watchable. At least fairly watchable for me. Cardinals at home for the Patriots. Probably the Pats' last chance to win a game. Cardinals playing to stay in the playoff hunt. And I was in Denver on Thursday. Here's how much I love Drake May. The Patriots... over under on FanDuel was three and a half and the under was plus 152. Yeah.

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4613.961

And I'm like, we're not winning another game this year. Like this is, we're finishing three and 14 unless some crazy Drake May game happens. Plus 152. What a great line. I should bet that. I'm not betting it. I didn't bet it. Wow. I don't want to root against Drake May. I love Drake May. I can't root against him.

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4641.241

We discussed it. We were like, very unlikely win-win again, but not betting against Drake May. Yeah. This should be close. What do you think? Yeah. I got to say, so I'd have cards by six. What'd you have? I said six also. That's six and a half. Am I really matching? I think the Pats could win this game. Why not? Poop Factor. Bengals at Titans. I have Bengals by six at Tennessee.

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467.451

It's pretty cool to have a guy hitting, what is he? He's 26 next year? Mm-hmm. You just get this guy. You could be in your 70s, so still be on the team. Think about it that way. That's how I've been thinking about Drake May. I'm like, Drake May is going to take me to my 70s with a smile on my face.

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4678.234

Oh, shit. I just realized this. Jesus. What's the matter? Just a lot of home underdogs. Yeah. So we have Browns, Saints, Titans, Giants, potentially a couple more here, and then potentially a Monday nighter. Ravens at Giants. I'm going to say Ravens by 10 and a half, and I'm not going to put them in the tees.

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4707.563

Obviously, nobody's watched Lamar and Jim and John Harbaugh against a shitty team in the road.

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4717.611

And the Giants are up 14 to three heading into halftime here in Giants Stadium. Cowboys Panthers had a lot of trouble with this one. I gave this the old one and a half. Cowboys by one and a half at Carolina. I had even more trouble.

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4760.223

If I had told you six weeks ago that in week 15, the Panthers are going to be favored by a point and a half for the Cowboys, would you have assumed there was like a bus accident?

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4777.053

The Panthers have been good. This is what we talked about earlier. They've been good. I mean, a good-bad team. Not good-good.

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4796.502

Jets are at Jacksonville, speaking of depressing. I don't know if it gets more depressing than this. This is the Aaron Rodgers-Mac Jones game. Nobody wanted. And I have the Jets favored by one and a half.

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4818.589

Did they end up covering today or because it was six and a half and it dropped to five and a half?

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4839.172

I'm hitting this one. Seahawks-Packers in Seattle. A very good one. Always a problem with the uniforms. Always confusing.

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4848.98

Some good history with these two teams. I'm going to say Seahawks by one and a half.

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4904.928

Vikings home for the Bears. And I don't see how this is less than seven and a half. So I'm going to say Vikings by seven and a half.

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4941.885

What a game. Atlanta at Vegas. I'm going to say Atlanta by three and a half.

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495.876

What is the reaction with all the Mets fan texts? Is it like euphoria or is it like cautious euphoria?

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5087.757

The growlers. My daughter asked if she could Instacart some stuff in college. And I said yes. And I just wanted to redo the order as my parent corner.

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5100.788

Almond Breeze unsweetened. Almond Breeze Unsweetened Original Almond Milk Non-Dairy Milk Alternative. Hood Instant Whip Light Cream. Ready Whip Orange Original Dairy Whip Topping. These are the first four things she got. Ghirardelli Hot Cocoa with Chocolate Chips. Swiss Miss Milk Chocolate Hot Cocoa K-Cup Pods. Pillsbury Eater Bake Chocolate Chip Cookie Dough.

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5126.216

Tollhouse Chocolate Chip Lovers Cookie Dough with Chocolate Chips and Chocolate Chunks. Peanut butter, 90% less fat powdered original. That was my favorite, less fat after all these other orders. Archer Farms Women's Plaid Flannel Holiday Matching Family Pajama Set, small. Archer Farms Women's Plaid Flannel Holiday Matching Family Pajama Set, large.

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5151.953

Strawberries, Jet Puff Mini Marshmallows, and Skinny Pop Microwave Popcorn with Sea Salt. That was the Instagram order. And apparently she was at my dad's house and they decided to, um, make cookies and drink hot chocolate. And, um, and she wanted to wear all this stuff, but I got the order and I'm like, are you in college or you're in like second grade? What, what's happening?

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5177.236

Remember in college, like you used to go to college and you were just on your own and you had like, somebody had like a toaster oven and now you can just order whatever the fuck you want and it comes. That was it.

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5190.2

Having hot chocolate when we were in college, it would have been like a miracle. It'd be like, you have hot chocolate? Yeah. It sounds amazing. Do you have like a crock pot? You can make it? Now it's just... I don't know. The whole thing of being in college, I just feels like it's like in this delivery era, like, oh, I want pizza. Oh, our pizza place closed. Oh, shit.

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5209.21

I guess we can't have pizza now. It's like, oh, just order a pizza.

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5212.993

Yeah, you're right. Does college make it too easy on our kids?

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5217.481

Like, or just like 2024, it's too easy to be a kid in college compared to the way it used to be. Like, you used to like get sent off and that was it, man. You had to like sink or swim.

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523.918

It is. The only two teams I hate are the Yankees and the Lakers, and it's been a rough weekend for both of them. The LeBron trade rumors, the whispers have started. And they look like they're winning tonight against Portland. But I'm always happier when those two teams aren't doing well. Well, when you're in your 70s, I think the Chiefs will still be winning stupid games. Mahomes will be 41.

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5242.822

Red foil. Yeah. But that's the thing. She'll, she'll take like two bites of all this stuff. Cause we call her, we call her the maggot is her nickname in our house. Cause she, she'll like, there'll be a piece of pizza on the counter and she'll just take like just enough of the cheese to ruin the piece, but not eat the pizza. So I was like, Oh, the maggot got it.

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5264.071

um you know what sergeant slaughter would call his opponents a maggot you should get a sergeant maggots just like eat away at the yeah at the we call ben the raccoon because when ben when ben gets into the kitchen it's a lot different there's a lot of damage stuff like that yeah um did you watch ufc last night i did i did it was great really it's actually a better card than i thought a couple weird decisions but uh

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5295.017

Yeah, that was... I don't know if he won any round. No, I was... I wrote the bet off. I thought he lost all three rounds. What did he do?

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53.807

We did it live on YouTube as well, but we're going to start giving you that video option a little more often on Spotify. So be ready, my friends. Coming up... I am in a fantastic mood today because the Patriots did not fail Drake May. They did not play. They had a bye. But I'm in a better mood. The Pats were zero and zero today.

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5316.713

He was like 36. But Rogan made a big case for him when he came out as a Gracie. We talked to him. He said he's feeling great. And he just got completely annihilated.

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5339.103

All right. That's it for Pair Corner. Anything else we got? That's it. What number is Juan Soto going to wear?

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5358.271

We should mention on the, on the ringer Sunday pregame show, you were now 12 and two on your best bets.

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5377.338

We're having a pretty good year, just in general. I think our futures did good. Million-dollar picks are doing good. The Ringer Sunday pregame is doing pretty good. Everybody's house has been hitting some underdogs.

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5449.431

Wait, before we go, Seahawks minus 135, Rams plus 160. Tampa's minus 230. Atlanta's plus 185. Pittsburgh's minus 210. Baltimore's plus 175. They're just dying to get you to try to put Baltimore money down. Look at that Stewart schedule and there's a whole path, but I think the Stewart's going to do it. Anyway. All right. Cuz, as always, good job by you. Good job by you, buddy.

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5478.881

Thanks to Kyle Creighton. Thanks to Steve Cerruti. Thanks to Gahow. And you can watch this on Spotify. You might not have even realized that as you were listening to it, but you can watch it on the YouTube channel as well. I'm going to be back with the rewatchables on Monday night. Did a Michael Douglas movie. Oh, which one? Falling Down? No, I'm not going to say. It's a Michael Douglas movie.

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5499.415

That's the only hint. And then back on this podcast on Tuesday. Great to see you, Sal. See you, buddy.

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579.118

Well, the field goal the guy made earlier in the game from like 49 or 50, it went through and then...

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585.842

ricocheted backwards so it kind of landed in the end zone which I hadn't seen very often either that guy did not inspire a lot of confidence but I think the mascot was even fooled yeah there were multiple chances to hedge all the Chiefs parlays and teasers you had if you had them I know I had a few uh halftime 13-0 perfect time because as Collinsworth was saying during that game um

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609.008

It was going, the Chargers were weirdly in it. They had missed a big long pass for a touchdown. It felt like it was pretty toe to toe. The score wasn't reflective. Get to the third quarter, Chargers scored twice in a row. They have the lead and it's the perfect time for the hedge. And I looked at it and it was Chargers, I think plus two and a half.

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629.487

So it was basically like if the Chiefs win by a field goal, you could still win this Chargers bet. And I was just like, you know, The Chiefs win this every time. Why am I hedging with it? Why am I nervous that the Chiefs, this will be the time they blow it. I'm just going to ride the Chiefs. And that turned out to be the move.

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683.721

They never look comfortable. They miss when they have no explosive plays whatsoever anymore. And when they try to run one, he'll miss the guy by like 10 yards. Or it'll be like his arm will get hit as he's throwing it. Or it'll be like that Hopkins play where Hopkins catches it and he gets stripped. They just have nothing.

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704.911

Even like this last drive when it seemed like they would have momentum and then they'll just run the line and the guy will fall down. You never feel comfortable play to play. I was watching Mahomes today trying to remember... Like, hey, are you going to do Mahomes stuff? I can barely remember what it looks like. And then he had two of them on the final drive.

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722.457

But we just watched Josh Allen, the fucking Superman cape on in the earlier game. And it was, I didn't want to go there mentally because I know it's reactive and it's, but I was thinking like, shit, the way Josh Allen played versus the way I'm watching Mahomes play now. It just seems like Allen's better this season. I'm not saying he's better career.

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73.549

And Cousin Sal and I are going to break down a fantastic rollercoaster ride. And it wasn't that good. Week 14 NFL. There are a couple of good games. That's about it. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. What a night to go live. Cousin Sal is here. Sunday night. The Chiefs just doinked their way to 12-1. But more importantly, Sal got Juan Soto on his Mets team.

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742.912

I'm not saying he's past him, but just this season, it seems like he's better. And then Mahomes did like five things. And he's like, no, no, I'm still here.

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771.744

No, I have two iPads going because I knew you were going to ask me this. Oh, all right. So as always, I'm going to bring a Boston team into this because, you know, there's so many Chiefs-Pats parallels. Bruins, I hope. And I was trying to remember if Brady had hit a point where it was like, man, what's going on? And it happened.

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789.773

It was way later in his career, but it was the 2013 Pats who finished 12-4, and it was a season very similar to this Chiefs season. But Brady that year... was only 25 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, threw for 43, 43 yards. The whole year, it was the year Gronk was hurt, Hernandez was gone, the two receivers were Edelman and Amendola, the two running backs were Stephon Ridley and LeGarrette Blount.

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815.257

They just didn't have anybody. And it led to this whole Brady conversation of, what is this? Manning was lighting it up for Denver. It's like, what is Brady? Is it over? Do we need to think about the future? And it was just his supporting cast wasn't very good. And I think that's the case with the Holmes this year. Like, who are his good... Offensive weapons.

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835.467

Kelsey was gone in that game for two hours. I forgot he was in the game. Hopkins is okay. Pacheco's okay. Worthy's okay. They just... They don't have a single guy. You watch these other teams... You know, like you watch that Bills-Rams game, like that Nakua and Cooper Cup and Shakir, like all those guys are way better than anyone the Chiefs have.

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867.753

I think his running backs are better. Shaqiri's got Amara I'd rather have Amara Cooper than Hopkins yeah tight ends maybe maybe Kelsey in a big game but when Kincaid's out there I'm not sure it's that much of a drop off Yeah, I guess for what you're saying, the difference is Allen has these holy shit. You know, he had five of them in the game today in my homes.

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891.097

The holy shit plays seem to be these third and sevens that bring drives. Keep a drive going versus like the Allen type of play. Right. Like, oh, my God, he just ran for 38 yards.

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917.808

Oh yeah. He was Luna. I was in that guillotine league. I'm in, we needed Alan to have a bad game. As soon as the Rams took a big lead, we were like, this is going to go terribly. And then he had an awesome game. I think the other difference with them, at least this season is my homes has just taken more hits. Like they had that concert with this point out the whole game.

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936.872

They had that stat at one point, he'd been back to pass 40 times. He got hit 16 and, It just seems like physically there's a toll he's taking, whereas Allen just seems superhuman at all times. Even if he's getting hit a couple times in a game, I still feel like he's fine. It still feels like he's bigger than almost everyone he's playing against. Mahomes had a couple ones today. Herbert did, too.

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958.605

I thought that was a really, really physical, playoff-y kind of game. I thought the Chargers were the big winner of the game, even though they lost. That game made me think that team in January, I actually think, could... go toe-to-toe with some AFC teams.

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992.714

Well, and they didn't have Dobbins and they didn't have McConkie. And I thought when McConkie got scratched, which I didn't even know when we did like million dollar picks on Thursday, figured McConkie was going to play. They scratched him. And after watching what we watched from Quentin Johnson this season, Palmer's been hit or miss. It's like, how are they going to move the ball?

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1012.729

Yeah. And then you got Tomlin who was thinking like you were thinking like, Oh, maybe we don't want to play the Ravens as much easier to go against the Texans in the shaky game. Um, and they just couldn't get it done. But, uh, now 177 yards offense before that last drive, but we're bouncing around.

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1068.443

Yeah. Hustle and bustle, taking bad sacks and everything. And you're right. They did drop a lot of balls. I think Pickens was like at 900, 100 yards away from a thousand yard season and ended up with 899. Like it was ridiculous what kind of day he put forward. He was dropping everything that was thrown to him. But I don't know, man, I go back and forth with Tom one.

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1086.802

I'm like, this guy, I don't know. You know, all right. You're just going to be around nine wins every year, 10 wins, one round and out in the playoffs. And then I'm like, holy shit. I haven't liked his quarterback in a decade. Right. Big Ben's last few years. How is he even doing this? Getting it going. But you're right. Yeah. Why can't we see fields on a gadget play somewhere in there?

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1126.137

Yeah. It's also- Yeah. It's an arrogant organization too. Let's face it. Like they, they bragged about spending less than $3 million on these two quarterbacks, right? Denver still played, paid most of Russ's salary. And it's like, no, eventually you got to do it.

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1140.303

I think like they looked at their division, like we can go out and sign a Lamar or try to get like someone like Lamar or look at Joe Burrow, but they were terrified of what happened with Watson. So they looked, they took the bad example in their division and ran away from it and eventually catches up to you.

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1163.875

It's pretty easy to stop. What a cover. That was one of the ridiculous covers of the year too. Steelers getting two and a half. I loved it.

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1244.272

Definitely top three fun to watch. And our friend Hench points out, like, when does a guy get legs in his seventh season? If you look at his rushing yards this year, compared to the first six, whatever it was, just spectacular. But I wasn't able to enjoy it. I had so much money on Tampa Bay to win the division and all sorts of money line parlays with Tampa Bay on them.

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1262.497

I really felt like Pesci being led to the basement, like halfway through. through the second quarter when the Saints were up two scores, I looked down to see if the floor was covered in plastic. And I was like, oh, no. Okay. But Baker fought for me. It was beautiful. He really did. And then the game's over and they're like, wait, we got to get Mike Evans this bonus.

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1300.28

How about eight guys? That's the only reason they're snapping the ball and not taking a knee is to throw it to Evans. Come on, clogger. The crowd's cheering. They're chanting for Mike Evans.

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1368.564

Just the way they're playing. But I know that's going to be a close game probably in the fourth quarter. Oh, yeah, Houston, I don't trust too much either. One of those AFC teams, I think. Yeah, Atlanta. Roger Goodell must hate Atlanta because we didn't realize it, I don't think, because we did the podcast right after that Atlanta-Washington game. They fucked up four games this week.

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1387.296

There would have been four games that meant something, including the Rams game, including their game, Carolina, and the Washington game would have mattered too against Dallas. Goodell must have a Raheem Morris voodoo doll. No one's happier that Atlanta's not in than Roger Goodell.

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1450.1

Sometimes maybe I think they screw with the fans and like, let's see, this is a meaningless spread. It's going to be the biggest of the year. Let's see how many eyeballs we get on this game. Oh, good. Football still works. Everybody watched.

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1474.755

Right. We're going to serve a three-day-old meatloaf at the school lunch. See if people still buy it. Oh, wow. They're hungry around noon? Interesting.

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1678.601

All right. I mean, I'll give you that. Maybe they should have fired him before the game, but I just, I know people who root for bad teams and then they just never end up rooting for their team. They just end up rooting for draft picks year after year and they just never get to root for their team.

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170.34

Bill, you know, this game, these two teams saved the NFL because it was a shitty beyond shit slate for us in Week 18, and then one team forgot to show up. Football's funny.

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1710.834

Well, I mean, let's put a pin in this already. Like, tanking kind of just doesn't exist in the NFL. Because, like, first of all, three teams were in line for the number one pick in the last three weeks.

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1735.168

How many quarterbacks do you think you have? Joe Milton's your best quarterback. Kyle already ordered the jersey.

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1800.495

It's not a normal business. It's not. This was normal. You just have to lose the game. You shouldn't have hired Harry in the first place is what I would say to you. Well, that's true. And you got people paying to watch this business on a given day. All they were rooting for them to lose. I don't know. I don't know. Not Kyle. He's got the Joe Milton jersey. Kyle is devastated.

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1822.649

Yeah, because now you have to trade Drake May. Of course he's devastated.

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1869.204

That's fine. But now you have three coaches in the last three years. You're like the Panthers with the one and dones. Congrats. You root for the New England Panthers. And now it's like you can't talk about Patriot lore. And, well, we have we have grit. We're going to go. We have the staying power and all that. I love Brady, unfortunately.

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1903.114

I think it's very difficult to get tanking to work in the NFL. Buffalo did it. You have to have the coaching staff, the players, and the front office on the same page. Maybe the Giants did it today. Exactly. They didn't do it in the last two weeks. In the NBA, it's as easy as checking in at the scorer's table. This is different. It's just different. It just is in the NFL.

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1980.004

What's involved in losing today? Like the Bills play Josh Allen one play, right? Or one series, whatever. So the Bills bring in Trubisky.

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1997.549

So it's a staring contest. So like, maybe, I don't know. You know, it wasn't like you started everybody. You were throwing bombs every play. It was just a weird, weird game.

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2019.724

You need to take a knee. You could take a knee every play, but whatever.

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2045.589

Yeah, I sat my starters. I bet Tennessee. I was like, they're 2-14 against the spread. And that's why I got to warm up for the playoffs. So I'm not starting anyone good. But I felt like today was like a little bit of an outer body experience. We're used to the 1 p.m. slate being kind of shit, right? But we saw so many backups today. It reminded me like of a high school reunion.

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2065.106

Where you're like in the corner of the room, like you're sipping cheap wine and staring at name tags.

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2081.771

Yeah. What's up with the divorce? And then like Davis Mills corners you and spends like 20 minutes showing you pictures of his vintage Chevy. And you're like, all right, I'm good. I'm good. Let's get to the playoffs already. This sucks. Who is that? Billy Zappy?

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2114.517

Got zero to do that. I haven't seen the specs on Jack shit. I'll have to see a linebacker from.

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2172.195

Yeah, that's a good starting point. I'm hoping Love is 100%. I'm hoping Hertz is 100%. So we don't waste a couple games in there. But yeah, it seems like all the quarterbacks, most of them will be solid.

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2205.365

No, well, that's probably the bigger reason they fired Mayo then today.

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2228.655

He'll be in good shape if you get him. Jack Schitt's high school coach, his name is in the hat. Well, that's the thing.

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2255.899

once that went north of 10 I'm like oh the books know more than we do here they know more because it becomes more about more than Carson Wentz wants to try out for his next team it's like Carson Wentz is with the third string everything you know Carson Wentz isn't throwing you know all these all the studs so doesn't matter he's throwing away receivers um

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2309.881

Right. You talk to your kids about the fantasy studs and everything. But, you know, although I will think, you know, as Burrow, as great as he is, I was looking at their eight losses. I think Mahomes and Allen win a couple of those. I think that's kind of the difference.

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2326.24

Yeah, I know. It would have been a perfect Bengals game and a perfect Steelers game, if not for the end.

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2354.942

Goodell has fired the director who shot him on the sideline. That's one too many. We don't need to show this guy. Why are you lingering on him like that? Eyes are rolling in the back of his head. Show some terrible towels. People chewing on terrible towels. Enough.

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240.686

I'm with you, but it was a really good team, that Detroit defense. That was fucking phenomenal. That is the wild card. You didn't expect that to show up, right? All right, so you can go both ways, right? Donald missed a lot of throws in the first half, open guys. I know you thought they should have run the ball down low instead of turning it over twice.

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2421.076

Seems like it. No one goes off like he did, right? Didn't he say, I want out of this place? Yeah, he had a weird year. It would have been nice. How about Miami? I know they knew their season was over. How about win a game in cold weather so people could shut up about it for a second? Yeah. It wasn't just Tua. It's a whole team that just melts, ironically. Oh, I'm saying this.

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2445.547

Schefter said the Pats traded a second-round pick for Mike McDaniel. That's pretty good. That's not bad. That's not bad.

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2487.017

Yeah. Nothing against Tyreek Hill. One of the best there's been in the last five years, whatever.

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2493.502

You watch college football, you're like, wow, there's studs all over the place that anyone could grab in the third round. And look at the backlog for Hall of Fame. There's a ton of really good wide receivers who aren't going to get in the Hall of Fame. So that might not be the position to stage a protest.

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2568.243

Oh, it's a dead heat. I think you just split the loot. Like half your bet wins and half of it loses.

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2595.006

Hendrickson leads in sacks. Triple crown for Chase at receiver. And Burrow has the most yards. Terrific. And Chase Brown got hurt. Otherwise, you know, whatever. I'm looking at your Tyree kill. You figure he always had a long of 45, at least if not every game, every other game. He had an 80-yard catch in September 8th, Game 1. After that, his long was 30. Really? And he did it twice. Yep.

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262.071

Yeah. So in a way, that was a difference. But man, that Lions defense and Anzalone being in there and just stuff in that middle. I mean, that was just a great physical game. Every third and three call was met with hard hits and lots of good coaching decisions, like high-level QB play mixed in with some curious throws.

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2629.969

It must be. I don't know. I mean, it's not like he got a lot of pass interference calls for him.

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2659.025

Right? Oh, the Stalback and Drew Pearson? Yeah. All right. I'm going to go with that.

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2724.841

My favorite neighbor is Andy, the fireman next door.

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2744.986

Okay. My favorite neighbor is Jack Shit. He lives on Main, like 512 Main Street. He's right there. He's a good guy. Barbecue. End of the year stuff.

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279.188

But it makes me think both these teams are going to be good in the playoffs, especially the Lions, obviously.

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2792.549

And so what about the biggest outlier game of the year? It has to be the Raiders beating the Ravens?

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2814.34

How could you say salt shaker on your shoulder so easily? And Collinsworth still can't say pass rush. And I can't say Collinsworth.

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2874.691

Yeah. They have to keep trading picks. They have to say, sorry, fans, we fucked up. We're going to be bad for the next three years. It's our fault. That's not yours. You'll still have to pay top dollar to get into these games, but we're going to have to do some maneuvering to, to get these draft picks back, to get some capital back. I really feel that's the way to do it.

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2891.361

They're not a quarterback away from winning and they're already paying a ton to keep the terrible one. Yeah.

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2952.975

I don't think the buzz is going to grow for Shador Sanders. In fact, there are some experts who think he's mid-second round at this point. But I think whatever personal momentum he has is carried, it's going to plateau. And so by that regard, I don't know if that's... Travis Hunter's a nice player. Cam Ward, again...

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2973.877

a little bit shaky, but as far as if you're going to go for a quarterback, but I don't know who, I'm looking like Kelvin Banks. They talk about the Patriots taking an offensive lineman. Nobody's climbing for these guys. It's fine. I'm sure these guys are good players and everything, but it's not like it's been in years past.

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2991.283

When the Cowboys started winning and I was like, all right, I don't know what the difference between 10 and 17 is at this point. Still got to get

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3031.821

Yeah. It could be a lull. This could be the year. Could be a lull draft. Jack shit will go. I hope Jack shit. Jack shit could go higher. His girlfriend. If she's looking at her cell phone when he's drafted, he's not going to elbow her unnecessarily. Yeah.

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3095.797

I think the Jets have to show me something before I think about it. Until then, they're a joke of the franchise that everybody claims they are. And the win today over Miami is not showing me something. Sorry. It's just not there.

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3135.663

Well, I mean, far away from what, I mean, that's the division you want to be in if you need to grow. Right. Yeah. Indianapolis was eight, nine. So they ended up like two games behind the division winner. Yeah. But you and I, I think are both a little hesitant on backing that quarterback. Yeah.

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3161.334

The only reason I put the bears in there is cause I think the Packers, Vikes and lions are going to be good for a little while here. Don't you like, you kind of have to look where they reside. And, um,

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3175.126

I know. We should have just gone under 8.5 and to not make the playoffs. That was easy.

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3213.112

We didn't cherry pick the minus 180s. I don't think there were that many. I don't think there was.

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3245.168

I'm telling you. You'll have Giant and Jet fans. You could have like a three-hour podcast of Giant and Jet fans just arguing who's in the worst spot. Who's angry about their situation.

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3309.567

They have three double-digit win teams in their division. And, you know, I don't know. I mean, I know Tyreek Hill went nuts after the game. I feel like Brock Bowers is about to waste a bunch of years in that offense. Yeah, what did Brock Bowers' friends and family tell him?

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3356.506

We're tied, right? 9-8-1, you're up. Nine weeks for you, eight weeks for me. One week tied.

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3424.779

And it's three. Hmm. It's pretty fair, I guess. Compelling start. It's down to two and a half, so we got it exactly.

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3450.5

What was the Cleveland-Houston game last year? It might have been Cleveland-Houston. Might have been the very same one, but we loved Stroud then. We're a little down on that offense right now, right? Yeah. And maybe a little, oh, Harbaugh's going to want to win and keep it going. They'll go to Kansas City.

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3467.825

Well, it depends what the other teams do, but we might fall in love too much with Harbaugh and Herbert over the week and forget about that detection to the home team and how they screwed us last year.

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3496.163

When did the Texans... When was that last game like you were like, oh, wow. All right, this team's got it.

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3502.888

It's a ton, right? Yeah. Yeah. The Titans are not going to count. They beat the Dolphins 20-12, the Jaguars. Oh, they beat the Cowboys 34-10. That was it. That's how you know they're good.

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3571.307

He acts like the team could win a Super Bowl in his lifetime.

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3608.942

Good for you. You're an honorable man and a loser in this case. I said seven. Yeah. And it's nine and a half. Oh, Jesus.

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362.8

I'm not going to either. And let's, I think both of us thought that the lions needed this more, right? Like I felt like the lions defense wasn't going to be able to travel on the road. I don't even know about that first game. We'll, we'll get to that when we guess the lines and stuff, but I thought they had to be a one seed, right? So I, They needed it more.

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3620.796

I feel like I'm going to get smoked on this game. Like I'm going to be so mad at myself a minute in.

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3639.014

I mean, but I don't look, you think this is going to be, I mean, every time they play, it's 18, 16, but you don't see it.

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3656.337

I might be going the other way. You know how bad I've been in the playoffs, but the Steelers could stay in this maybe. Maybe we'll buy low on the Steelers.

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3678.024

I know they killed the Browns. They covered a 20-point spread, which is admirable in 2024. The Ravens did. But there was a whiff of, oh, shit, the calendar turned to January, and Henry early on wasn't busting out for 15 yards, and it still has to be Lamar on third and seven trying to scramble for a first down.

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3739.48

But it's always a Ravens team that averages 30 points but can't score more than 17 against the Steelers. It's kind of always that, right?

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3793.067

Yeah. You're probably right. They probably have this win in them. And then it's the following week. What are they now? Three seed? So it's Buffalo. Yeah.

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380.429

They went in there and they bullied him. And Campbell really bullied KOC, I thought, too. He had some really mischievous shit going on. Fourth and two definitely should have kicked the field goal to go up three scores, went to draw him off sides. And you kind of have to bite because he actually could go. He's like the one guy who could go on fourth and two.

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3828.319

Turn Lamar over a couple times too. That would have to be in the equation.

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3843.532

Well, it's fake money, so you don't have to worry. Oh, it is. You're right.

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3867.37

I don't know. I think their defense is just good enough that maybe... Couldn't they force a game like the Patriots played? Not today, but a couple weeks ago? The other game. Take the lead early. Couple long drives. That was a nice game plan. 10-0. I'm sure your manifesto doesn't say great things about rookie quarterbacks on the road in the playoffs. Game one. Yeah. No.

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3901.154

All right. I swear I hit this exactly. Eight and a half.

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3916.665

Their defense is pretty good. Like the Bills, I'd be surprised if they scored 40 on them. So if they score 30, then Denver has to get to 22.

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3952.352

Don't mess this up. Get past these junk teams. Sorry, Denver. And see you in the divisional round.

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399.658

So I think they were kind of bullied in all facets. And that crowd was great and everything else. But I'm not going to look. We were two in on Sam Donald. We're going to look like hypocrites. We got to. I still think he's a big contract guy. I don't think it's the pumpkin Cinderella thing, whatever they want to say there. But I think they are right with Sam Donald, Minnesota fans.

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4009.219

They almost pulled the boner of the decade with Love getting hurt today coming out. And then Shepter's like, he's questionable to return. I'm like, questionable? Why would he ever return? If his grandmother's on fire at midfield, he shouldn't return. This is nuts. What's the point? So the Bears win. Who cares?

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4045.947

Speaking of Jerry, I thought that was going to backfire. The talk is that Cooper Rush was about to hit his incentive at 55% of the snaps. He was at 52. And that's why they put Trey Lance in. I'm like, watch this MF throw for four touchdowns and then Jerry's going to have to pay him $60 million next year. That did not happen. Nope, not even close.

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4102.833

You're going to get this one. I had three. It's four and a half. So I'm up three, two with two left.

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4114

Yeah, I guess, you know, is it weird that what's now it's been a few weeks for Hertz, right? This is kind of like a fighter that we haven't seen fight like a year and a half now. Right. I don't know.

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4153.873

They should move it to Brazil. This is where it all started.

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4197.801

Yeah. Right. With the rookie quarterback on the road, although they didn't, they didn't kill a Knicks as much.

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4206.025

I'm going to look at the bucks. It's tough. The bucks played so poorly for 40 minutes today and a must win. It's hard to like them, but the Washington didn't play great either. Let's face it.

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4255.781

At this point, they have playoff experience, right? They're kind of a playoff veteran team, right? Where Washington, I'm not going to say they're just happy to be there, but there might be an element of that.

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4284.331

You crushed me here. It doesn't matter because I'm going to beat you overall. I had four and a half. It's two and a half. Minnesota minus two and a half.

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4296.076

Yeah. Stupid. So you get it. But I went four three.

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4304.677

We are tied. Now, what do you think the look-ahead line would be for this? Like, I was probably closer if, like last night, if we would have guessed the line for this, right?

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4317.802

Before we saw it 24 hours ago? Yeah, because, I mean, there is a chance that Sam Darnold's a little iffy against a tough-nosed defense, you know?

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4330.922

What do you think it would have been? They were on such a streak of scoring 30-plus points, right? So I thought it would have been four and a half. I should have moved it based on today.

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4355.851

Your guy Kelvin Banks right there, 50-1. He's not going to be the first pick though, right? I don't see Jack shit.

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4368.694

Yeah, I mean, these guys could move around. So what do we see? We see a pro day. We see Wanderlicks. I don't know. I guess these could move, but some of those guys I don't think will.

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4382.598

On this? Jimmy Butler traits? Oh, Mike McCarthy to the Pats. Come on. Schefter. This is interesting.

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4401.111

You finally have a great quarterback and Joe Milton. I'm proud of you. It's good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4446.325

You don't even know who you were going to trade for in this draft. It's fine. Get some wins. It's nice. It's nice for the team.

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4466.458

It was tight, but... But I think I said... Let's wait a few games, right? I think... Oh, no, you said their January's hard.

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4505.277

Like they have, I think they have like, tough games coming up. I think we'd get better odds. They have the Lakers twice. They're at the Bucs.

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451.294

I feel bad not shitting on anybody, but I feel like both these teams could do pretty well, and they could meet in two weeks, so we could see a totally different game.

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4519.554

All right. So my oldest was here, right? Yeah. Big Oregon fan. Ducks. Went to the Rose Bowl. Saw his team get destroyed. People are like, you're going? Why aren't you going? I'm like, I don't know. It's for the kids. At this point, it's for the kids. I'm not going to be one of these idiot fathers because I paid tuition. I sent my kid, and so now I'm the big guy. I'll root for them.

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4542.239

I'll root for him. I was trying to convince him that getting blown out is so much better. He just didn't want to hear it when he got home. He's very much into, this is the big cause he's taken on, that the Big Ten is better than the SEC. He's like, F the FCC. I can't stand it.

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4556.565

It's like, and I guess as a parent, this is a little less stressful than if it's cause involved, like protesting for or against causes in the Middle East. So, all right. Yeah, good. Hate the FCC all you want. But anyway, he was really bummed they lost and he's gone now. We went back to school, but he went back on Friday and his mother was furious and despondent.

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4577.442

Like he went back a day early and like none of his friends were going to be there. And it made her feel bad. You just kind of wanted to get away from everybody? I think so. And you just wanted to get back to no one. And I was like, listen, I try to put myself in that position. I was like, I think I would have liked this. Like, right.

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4593.176

If you could have gone back to college and had like a day to shop or whatever, just lay around and do nothing with no one there. Like, I think I would have liked that. That's fine. And the other thing I was thinking is, you know, we spent the entire weekend and entire holidays complaining about our parents, like Melissa and I, like the gift card.

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4609.949

They lost these gift cards and they're arguing about who got more or less and hospital visits and getting them to and from like, maybe that's not smart. maybe we have to have like a poker face. Like, yeah, because then I think they feed off this, right? Like, he doesn't want to be, it's like, oh, all right. It's all right to hate your parents. Good. You gave me the okay.

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4629.88

And now I'm going to do that. Now I'm going to leave early for school. So there's not really a story attached to it, but I just think like, I think you have to be careful when you think you're being cool, making fun of your parents. I think it kind of, sets a different tone with your kids, potentially.

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4677.794

I think it's just like, you know what? They raised me well, and I'm glad I'm in a position I'm in to help them. So glad they're still healthy. Things like that. They're still healthy. So lucky to have them around. I would never leave a day early to... To be away from them? I don't know. Something like that.

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4710.531

Don't you like being in an office, like getting away from everything for a few hours or something? It's nice.

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4744.394

Like I'm already, you know, there's that commercial where you're training people not to ask people about the weather and stuff. I forget. I won't say it's another insurance. I know we have our good friends at State Farm. But yeah, I don't know. I'm already writing shit down, like what to avoid. Like just... Dad's going nuts about week 18.

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475.604

He's fine. You can't make proclamations like that.

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4771.302

Oh, my dad's rooting for the Patriots to lose for 35 straight years now. What the hell? Get over it. Just once. He wants the first pick again.

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4934.128

She's talking to her friends about it right now. Retained an attorney.

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4951.405

Well, could you get to a spot where you would actually stream it? Like if you got good again, would you consider streaming it or no?

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4989.475

Yeah. I don't think, I don't know that NFL coaches, I know that most of them would be terrible with the time management at the end, the video games. I just absolutely know it. But as far as, yeah, you're right. I wonder if it is too many plays for them. I wonder if they'd call the same. Maybe that's what it is.

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5027.1

Yeah, you should fire him every game. That's the Patriots way now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Patriots Are Pathetic, Detroit Crushes Minnesota, Plus Wild-Card Guess the Lines With Cousin Sal

5045.928

You can spend 40 minutes before you kick off. Like, yeah, just going in and out of that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5057.313

I think the peak was 20 years ago. College game apparently has passed it. It's even worse, though, with that, with like with scouting and recruiting and NIL and shit like that. It's like real, it's really, like Lombardi is, Lombardi would be like, this is too hard.

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5151.43

First Raw after 32 years changing networks. Can you play Fortnite on your phone while watching Raw?

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5162.981

We're all going to be hanging out this week a little bit. We're going to be hanging out. We got the crew coming in, right? The Ringer pregame show. Everybody's flying in. House from Washington, JJ from New York, and Raheem has like 17 homes. I don't know exactly where his flight's going to originate. Probably Vegas, but they'll be out here. We'll be watching the games together.

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5182.07

And Cousin Sal's winning weekend against the odds through the Ringer, all on the Ringer podcast. Podcast Network and Fandle TV. Also, I should announce I'm holding a press conference tomorrow to address the rumors that while working at Fox, I had sex with Jason Whitlock. And I did not. I did not, in fact, do that. Was I attracted to the men? Of course. Of course I was.

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5204.823

But what's being alleged is that it did not take place. I promise you that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5220.028

Well, he has one. There was a lot of talk about when he goes to Vegas. No, I'm kidding. Oh, I see. I got you. All right. It should be great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5234.949

I was saying that today. I was like, all our teams suck. How is it that everybody, even Dabundo was on? I was like, he's a Colts fan. House is the only one who has a team now. He was really hoping that he could see a game at SoFi. But somebody didn't do their job. Well, I guess the Rams didn't do their job. Otherwise, he might have had a chance. Did their job.

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5275.487

Oh, yeah. I think let's go over four and a half pounds gained, I would say. That's good. Hey, we do two pods next week, right? I think we did it last year like that. Well, because there's a Monday game. We can't guess one of the lines.

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5298.746

I know. Yeah, they get stupid with this. I don't understand why they did it that way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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534.246

He's so quick, Gibbs, right? They also look faster than everybody too. So once he turns a corner, he's in no man's land. You're just not going to catch him. Are you comfortable with them being the Super Bowl favorite right now? Three to one odds? Is that what it is?

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551.049

They're the favorites. Chiefs plus 350. Ravens and Bills 6-1. And then the Eagles 7-1. And the Vikings bounce all the way down to 14-1. So if you want your value, 14-1, it's right there. Except they have to win four games now. So I guess that could make sense.

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600.515

I bet on the Super Bowl. You bet on the seeds. God bless. I collected 26-1 odds on the one seeds. Unbelievable. But my Super Bowl was Buffalo. I know, I know.

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612.845

Yeah, but how about you? Then we'll stop jerking each other off here. But what were you, 27-5 with the preseason picks?

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635.78

Yeah, you should probably get minus six for the Jets, betting the Jets over. But no, 27 and five. It all counts.

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651.509

We have to seek therapy and figure out why we want to bounce Buffalo from the AFC East spot every August. The top spot. Because we do. We look forward. And it's just never there.

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722.178

But anyway, we have... They can't be flexed out, Pittsburgh, right? We checked on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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777.654

Many at the Rams. We sent each other what we thought the schedules would be. You made an amateur mistake. The Monday has to be a 4-5 because they have to know before then where they're sending the winner of that game. Minnesota at the Rams so far is Monday.

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802.125

Are you surprised that NBC didn't get Green Bay at Philly Sunday night? That was like my big, I was like, wow, they're going with Tampa Bay and Washington. It's interesting. I think Fox big boyed it. They must have.

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840.653

Yeah. It hurts less to jump through tables on the morning game than it would at night, I guess.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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896.26

So I don't know. I get it. Isn't it so weird like the different philosophies like McVay is like you know what, we're injured. I've seen what this team looks like injured. We want to make sure we're in good shape next week, whoever we play. And Dan Campbell's like, screw it. This game means nothing. We're starting everyone against the 49ers. I don't care if we have 20 guys on IR.

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915.469

It is so bizarre that everybody is so different and you can't go too crazy about one philosophy over another. But even with that, they almost won that game, the Rams. I know. They were winning. Jimmy G wasn't bad. No, he wasn't. they'd sent guys after him and then eventually it caught up, but they were right there in that game.

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972.114

He was really into it. He was supposed to hold him back. Didn't he have a get-back guy for so many years?

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You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

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A couple other storylines from this game. Draymond, defensively, I know it's a theme over and over again. Today, in this game, he was like a sweeper in soccer or he was like char on hockey. He was just in front of the net, just protecting the goalie and just jumping out from under the basket and swiping down and stripping or protecting the rim or going vertical. I thought he was...

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1068.948

And they were able to steer the defense around him being able to do that and not really having to guard anybody and just pop out and help and jump in. I thought he was awesome. And those threes he hit was awesome. That was among the better. I get it. Three years ago, I didn't think he still had a game like that in him.

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When we were watching him in 2022, it felt like he was phasing toward the next phase of his career.

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1197.998

You know, the ref, one of the last Laker games, the ref did the challenge and he was given the verdict on the challenge. And he said LeBron instead of James. And I thought, I just thought that was really funny. I caught that. He was like, LeBron had position. First name or is this like a Beyonce thing now?

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1223.55

Like, come on. A couple other notes from this game. Steph is now 5-0 in playoff series against Houston. Now, that counts the 2016 one where he got hurt and they won anyway. But they still have not beaten a team with Steph Curry.

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131.346

We now have the Buddy Heald game and also an incredible Steph Curry game where he's just getting doubled the entire time. But Buddy Heald, 33 points, nine for 11 from three. And the Warriors hold off the Houston Rockets who were a tenacious band of pit bulls just coming and coming and coming. But unfortunately for them, Could not make a shot.

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1328.184

So you're coming around. I thought that was, you're on my side now. I feel like I won you over. I thought that was a good Steph game. I was ready to zag the whole time, even in halftime when he had three points. I was like, you know what? I'm going to figure out how to do this.

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I don't think they're going to be. Want me to help you with your bags as you get off the bandwagon? It's like 1923. You're just getting off the train. When I asked you, did you pick or did you just give me the odds? I'll give you a thought in a second. Can we talk about Steve Kerr for a second? Because I thought he coached an awesome game today. What did you like? I rarely do this.

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because this is the old Hubie Brown thing about Hubie Brown loved every time out. I thought Kerr called like three or four of the best timeouts of the playoffs. He felt, and I only, we've talked about this in the past. There's only a couple coaches that really understand how to protect the lead where it's like, all right, we are up between eight and 15 points for an hour here.

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I can't let them get a run. I can't let the crowd get into it. I feel something bad happening timeout right now. And he did it like every time I felt like, oh man, I think the wheels are about to come off. He was just like, I've had enough. He had that one play when they went zone in the fourth quarter and Van Gundy called it out.

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And he was like, he needs to get Jimmy Butler back in the game to break this zone. And there was like 10 seconds up in the shot clock. And Kurt's like, timeout. I don't like the position we're about to have. Let me preempt this. To not know what you're getting from any of your bench guys. Think about the bench. It was, other than Looney, just a complete no-show from everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He knows he has to play Butler and Curry big minutes. He obviously talked about that, but I think they went 44 and 45 for minutes. And it's like, how can I... Takes Curry out like a minute before the end of the quarter just to kind of buy him that little break. I just thought he did a really good job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Russillo, what are you going to remember about this game 10 years from now?

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Is it Houston or is it Golden State? But we're going to take a break. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We all have our routines during the playoffs. I'm the same man who once wore the same t-shirt every single day during the 2003 baseball playoffs.

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I am the same person who will tell my wife to come into the room when I need a team to win because she's good luck during the NBA playoffs. These are things that happen. Well, Michelob Ultra, a great addition to any game time routine. It is a superior late beer. It's really great. And they're getting fans closer to the game with exclusive prizes, including courtside seats to see your favorite team

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play, signed memorabilia, lots more. Enter for your chance to win at mcglobeultra.com slash courtside. Mcglobe Ultra Superior Access Courtside 2024 to 2025 sweepstakes. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21 or older. Ends on July 1st. 2,025 multiple entry periods. Visit MichelobUltra.com slash superior access slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, and official rules.

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Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. Here's the other big storyline. Houston lost in round one. And now I feel like if they won, the Giannis trade becomes a little bit harder as a destination. Because it's like, yo, we won. Let's follow the motto of OKC and some of these other teams. Now it's like, hey, we lost in a game seven. We have a chance to get Giannis.

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What's it going to... Oh, it's going to be Shengun and... I don't know. Jabari and... Jalen Green. Pick three. Eason, Jalen Green. Three of those guys and a bunch of picks for Giannis. Let's go. We'll re-sign Van Blee for the extra year. We'll keep Brooks. We'll have Giannis. We'll have Thompson. we'll still have some picks and some maneuverability and let's overpay.

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And they have the best chance to overpay and put Giannis in a situation. But as we talked about a week ago, they also have the best chance to give Milwaukee guys back because Milwaukee can't really tank because they're under picks. So they could at least give them a bunch of players to be like, Yeah, you guys are getting a ton of assets here. Who knows?

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Like, let's say it's Shingun, Tari Eason, and Jabari. Like, that's a pretty good haul with all the picks for Giannis. So I felt like if they lost this game, maybe the Giannis thing becomes way more realistic. Do you think I'm right?

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You and I agree. I'm just trying to get I'm trying to base that on the history of how the NBA has gone, where people can fool themselves because they won a round. To be like, oh, we're closer than we were. And I think they should try to get Giannis. And if they can keep Thompson out of the deal, just do it.

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I'd go fourth in the world. No, a men's off the table. Thompson's off the table. He's off the table. I'm not discussing him.

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At that point, I'm... And if I'm Milwaukee, I'm saying the whole summer Thompson has to be in the deal. We're going to do that dance back and forth forever. But ultimately, if I'm Houston, I'm like, look, you're not getting him. We have a ton of picks. We have all these other guys. So let's figure this out.

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I think with the Jalen piece, the part that's disappointing to me, because what I really liked about him when he had that moment that you talked about from two years ago was it wasn't just the scoring. Like I felt like he was starting to create shots for other guys. Guess how many assists he had from game four, game five, game six, game seven. Four games.

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All right. Well, for the audience, he had six assists total in four games. So he's turned into this guy that he's either looking for his own shot or he's not doing anything for anybody else. And I feel like he's gone back with that. The defense certainly isn't on the par with Thompson and Neeson and Jabari, who I think are just way, way better than him. Yeah. And I don't know what he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, would you trade for him? Let's say you're like, let's say you're a lottery team right now. And it's like, oh, we can get Jalen Green. Pretty good contract. 33 million next year. What's he worth? Is he worth a top five pick in this draft? I would say no.

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If you were Houston, like if we were running Houston, we would keep Thompson and Eason and we would try to do Shangoon with Jalen Green. with Jabari, right? Those three plus picks. We'll take one of your bad contracts back with Giannis and let's try to figure it out. And now I get to keep Eason and I get to keep Thompson and I get to put them with Giannis. I bring VanVee back.

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I have Brooks back and now my team's better. And I like Jabari as an asset. I think he's misused on this team. I just think they decide they stick them in the corner. They don't run plays for him. I think he plays hard. I like him defensively. I think he could be a stretch five in the right team. I actually, that's somebody I would target the summer if I was somebody else.

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But again, they have the advantage though, because again, Milwaukee needs to get players back so they can compete next year, unless they just decide their picks at some cost for a year. And Houston's really the only team other than maybe the Knicks that could actually give them players that could, um, still make them good because they have the Doc situation too.

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Doc's got two years left in his deal. He's never wanted to be in a rebuilding situation ever. So he's not going to be happy. He's not going to be psyched to just throw in the towel. Do you think this ultimately was a win for Houston in this playoffs?

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Can I make the case for the Steph Curry performance? Can I zag? Is it zag time already? Well, you're not comparing it to 19, right? No. All right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Would you say it's a W to go to seven against Golden State and then you lose in seven because your offense, which was the thing everybody was pointing at this entire season as the thing that was going to sink you in the end. And then that's exactly what happened in the end.

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Well, also, the Warriors lose that stupid Spurs game, which comes back to haunt them. Because now Minnesota is the sixth seed with home court. Because they lost that ridiculous Harrison Barnes game where they were trying. Yeah. And the Spurs were just like, our season's kind of sucked. Wemby's been gone for two months. This will make our season if we can somehow stick it to you guys in this game.

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Chris Paul, Barnes. And they stick it to him, and now they don't have home court. But... I will say I'm not positive how much that matters for this particular Warriors team because we've seen them stink at home and we've seen them win on the road.

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm president of select states. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

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You know what I liked about it? First of all, I think Imei from the 2022 finals was just like, fuck this. I'm not letting this guy beat us. Not only am I going to double him when he has the ball and send second guys at him, I'm going to double him when he doesn't have the ball. Have you ever seen a guy get guarded with multiple guys when he wasn't anywhere near the ball?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Clippers tried to keep it old school the way you used to remember the Game 7s. Yeah, I appreciate that. Golden State, Minnesota. I think it's a really, really, really tall task for Golden State when you consider that. Kaminga now. Do we see Kaminga again if it's not garbage time? I'm going to say no. He was so bad in that. Hey, not to defend Kaminga, but...

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I think Kerr probably broke his confidence completely, and I don't know what they were expecting was going to happen if you're throwing him in. Moody's been up and down. Post has been up and down. Peyton, who missed the game today, which I forgot to mention.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Might've helped the Warriors because Houston crafts this defense thinking we're just going to double Steph everywhere and they make these other guys beat us. And then all of a sudden Buddy Hield is in that Peyton spot playing big minutes who can actually shoot. Maybe Peyton doesn't make a couple of those, but, um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can I intervene with you on this? I got to stage an intervention. I don't think you can look at the regular season matchups anymore. I think it's a 95% chance. Nobody on both teams played in any of the games. I feel like I want the five hours of my life back where I've looked at different matchups and like, oh, Halliburton didn't play that game. No Mitchell that game. You're just learning nothing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's not like it used to be even five years ago. You're like, oh yeah, that February game when they all played and they won 138 to 130. There's never a game where everybody played anymore. Yeah. Listen, we talked before the playoffs started about how Minnesota was a long shot that we didn't totally understand because there was a path for them, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Their path was beating the Lakers, getting home court in the round two against Golden State, and then just basically being toe-to-toe and unafraid against OKC. I think Minnesota should win this series. And I think Golden State, I continue to think they're a guy and a half short. They're not even a guy short. They're like a guy and a half short.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you're going to need eight guys against this Minnesota team because they're deep. They have different lineups. They have size. They can go small. You have the Edwards piece where he's just relentless on both ends. And I think Minnesota should be more of a favorite. I would have had this at minus 200. I think the Warriors are getting a lot of respect in this. I think Minnesota is a good team.

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Because that's what they were doing. They were grabbing him. They were holding him. They were like double teaming him from back and forth. And they were just like, you're just, you're not going to beat us. So then it came down to Buddy Hield and Pazemski for three quarters. Buddy was great. Pods was, that was a rough Pods game. He played hard. But when you think, what did he finish with?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Did you know LeBron was going to sprain his MCL near the end there? I didn't know that. Who knows? That last seven minutes of that game five.

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You're right. This is a new language. Normally, he'd be out 10 days, but he's going to get through it. They did it with Darius Garland today.

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Everybody's hurt in the playoffs. Everybody has injuries, right? Like the Celtics are starting their series tomorrow. Drew's going to play. He has a hamstring. They probably rest him two more weeks. Tatum hurt his wrist. If it's December, they're probably sitting him for two weeks. Jalen's got the knee. Like it's, it's May. I would expect people to get hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm sure Steph has like two injuries that we probably don't even know about. All these guys are fucking banged up. Steph had that crazy thumb thing.

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It seems like it's happening now regularly, or at least in that last series it did. They're just bear-hugging him.

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If you're defending somebody the same way you would hold back one of your buddies from trying to take a swing at the bouncer at two in the morning, that's probably a foul.

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But they got away with it was smart. They got away with what they wanted to get away with.

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He was four for 12, 1% from three. All of those were open. But they basically were just like, we're not letting Steph. So Steph figures this out early and you can either try to go hero ball and just launch some crazy threes with a hand in your face or just continue to try to keep...

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Why he was going to punch somebody. You know what's crazy? So you get Minnesota-Golden State. That's a great series for the league, right? Curry versus Edwards. I think both of those teams are really fun to watch. I did not think... DiVincenzo-Pojemski? Right. I didn't think Houston was very fun to watch, just for the record. Not bummed out. to not get them for the next two weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was pretty much done with Houston Rockets basketball games. No offense to their fans. Wasn't exactly a great hang. It's like, Oh, cool. It's 74, 72 with five minutes left. Minnesota gold state is a great series. And yet,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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it's not even one of the two best series that we have left from like a big storyline basketball standpoint, because that Indiana Cleveland series, and we've been talking about Indiana for weeks now and the people just haven't been on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So go ahead. So Cleveland was minus 500. In the series? In the series. So you bet the Pacers. I have multiple Pacer bets. I did the Pacers plus two and a half for the games. That'll go like six or seven. I did Pacers in six was 10 to one. I bet them today. I was just like, especially when no Garland, it's like, this is, these teams are even. I looked up the last 50 games, Rosillo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cleveland was 35 and 15 in the last 50 games. And the Pacers were 34 and 16. And if you look at the net rating, the Cavs were like 7.7 and the Pacers were like 5.1. I think they're pretty even teams. And you saw it today. Like when the Pacers, when they can play the pace they want to play and they suck you into it and teams get sucked into it and they can't help it.

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And once we're doing this, they're like, they're happy. They're in, they were getting the matchups they wanted. I think they can play with that team. Like I wasn't surprised they won today. I think it's going to be a long series. And I actually think it's probably the best basketball series of the four. Just for like, I don't know what's going to happen. The styles are great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's a styles make fights. It's a great series. And I thought that first game was awesome. Today was awesome. That was an awesome basketball game.

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making the right plays swinging the ball trusting your teammates it was a great trust your teammates performance and then when when they finally let up and he saw some daylight he grabbed it and then jimmy took care of the rest but i i really thought like he did everything you had to do in this game that team there was one stretch where they had thompson and eason out there with jabari smith

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I mean, I bet them to win in six. But you bet them with the payout at 10 to one. I thought that was the best value. If I had a gun to my head, I would have probably said Cavs in seven. Right. If I had to make a pick. But do I think the Pacers come in in seven? Sure. I just feel like it's a 50-50 series is my point. It's not a minus 500 favorite series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Here's where I took a loss. I picked the Clippers against Denver and I had Clippers stuff multiple places. And, uh, I know we're going to talk about that in a second. But that was one where I was like, I think the Clippers will win this series. Pacers-Cavs is more, I think either team can win this series. And I think it's a 50-50 series. I felt that going in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And now that they won game one, it hasn't changed. I don't think it's 60-40 now. I just think either team can win. And the Garland thing is a big deal because they needed his three-point shooting. You can see it today. I think they were like eight for 39 from three. You know, it was a lot of Ty Jerome. Ty Jerome, 20 minutes, fantastic. 30 minutes, now we're pushing it a tiny bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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In 29 minutes. And also, it hurts the calibration of the team, too, because now you don't have him coming off the bench in the same way to swing a game because he's just out there playing most of the game. I will say this. If Garland's not going to be 100% healthy in this series, I actually think Indiana is going to win. But it seems like that injury, like whatever, they're being careful with it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it seems like he's going to be able to play with it and not be completely compromised.

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And there was like this three minute stretch of defense where it was like, oh my God, like it seemed like a miracle just to get a shot off in 24 seconds. But they unfortunately couldn't sustain it and they couldn't make a shot. I thought that was such an impressive win by Golden State, though. They were down to five guys plus Looney that you could trust. Five and a half, five and a third.

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And I'm by the way, he had 22 and 13 and I think he leads the league for me. And when I watch a Pacers game, I'm always like, just go buy him. Just go buy him. You find yourself saying that with him constantly. Just go buy him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but you know what, though? We both watched the whole game. I thought Cleveland played hard. The Pacers came out I've seen them do that where they, it, it, they just put you on your heels. They turn to attract me and you get excited because it's the first game of the series. Like, all right, let's run, let's go. And it's like, that's what exactly what they want you to do.

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Cavs tried to start slowing it down. Mitchell took over. And if you're the Cavs, I think you would take solace watching the tape. The Pacers made some dumb shots. Like, what was that one, Nembhard? He made like a 29-footer at one point. To the right side, yeah. Then he made another one. Then Toppin made a couple. And it was just like, every time they needed a dumb shot to go, and it did.

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But I thought Halliburton was the... I thought he controlled the game offensively. Especially some of the transition stuff, which I think if you're Cleveland, when you have guys out there like, you know, Wade... And what's it? Strews. Like I thought athletically they were kind of trying to make the Cavs pay for, are you going to put those shooters out? We're going to go, go, go on you.

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And the other thing that was interesting to me was Halliburton attacking Allen. You know, I think it's a really good defensive center, but he was like, come on out here. Let me do my yo-yo thing with you. And he got him a few times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When you take the five steps backwards to shoot the three?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That move Mitchell has where he drives right at the guy and he does the high dribble and he carries the ball by his head and then rips it forward and comes in. And I was like, where have I seen that before? And I thought about it for like an hour. It's Dwayne Wade's move. That was the old Dwayne Wade. Are those the only two guys that had that? I'm trying to think. Did Kobe have that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But did Kobe do that one, that high, bringing the ball up high, and then you're almost like driving the ball down into the guy and then bouncing off?

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No, Isaiah Ryder. Changed his name. Yeah. Mitchell was great. You know what I loved about Mitchell in that game? It was the same reason why I felt like he had to be a top five MVP thing. Like he could feel what was happening and he's like, I got this, I got this. And he really like legitimately took over the game and swung it for a couple of minutes.

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One for 11. Yeah, if I'm Indiana, I'm psyched because I almost feel like you have to win game one on the road if you're going to win a seven game series where you don't have the home court. Otherwise, now you're looking at you have to win four out of six and it's just the math becomes too hard. It always seems like winning that game one is huge. I think they know they can win there.

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And I continue to think that's as good of a team as anyone in the East. Boston obviously has a higher ceiling. Cleveland has the pedigree from the season and probably have the best player. I would say Mitchell's slight edge over Halbert. But I think Indiana can play with both those teams. I was talking to my dad today.

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My dad's like, who would you want to play in round three if we get by the Knicks out of these two? And I was like, we'd want to play Indiana because we'd have home court. He's like, yeah, good point. But Man, they're scary. And both of those teams have played the Celtics really well and know that they can hang with them and potentially beat them.

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And for the Celtics, health is going to be the biggest enemy for them these next two rounds, whether they can, on a back-to-back season, try to keep everybody upright and playing big minutes. But I think all those teams are really good. I think Indiana, if Indiana made the finals, I wouldn't be shocked. I'd be a little surprised.

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I'd be shocked if Golden State made it with how limited their roster is. Like if they actually put together two more rounds, that would be like playing Quentin Post and coming good. Hoping Moses Moody's making threes and like that would be shocking. I would not be shocked by Indiana.

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This late into the season. Moses Moody can't make a shot today. Cross him off. Game 89. Yeah. He's turning around going. He's like, do we have anybody else? Is Andre Iguodala over there? I don't know. He's not on our team anymore. You know the other thing with Indiana that I think is interesting? Everybody they bring in, I like.

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I even like him. Yeah, but like Toppin is like, all right. But when Toppin's open in the corner, do you think the shot's going in in the fourth quarter? Because I think it's going in.

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When TJ McConnell's driving to the basket, I'm like, I think he's going to score. I think they're a good team.

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continue i thought they were the best value for all the bets before the playoffs because they were like you have no hesitation then i mean thomas bryant's out there right they're playing ob top and at the five against the cleveland options that they have five minutes for thomas but i'm like i just think carlisle was showing off at that point he's like you don't think i could play 11

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I'll tell you this. If Garland's not healthy, I think Indiana wins the series. And if Garland ends up being healthy, I still think they could win it. I think it goes six or seven. I thought that was a great bet. That was one of my favorite bets, the Indiana plus two and a half. Let's take one more break for the podcast. Then we got to talk Clippers. Clippers. So big picture.

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I think this is the rare series that was decided in game four. You see this sometimes where sometimes the games, I know it's weird to be like game seven, anyone can win. And the line certainly reflected it. The line was even, then it was minus one, then it ended nuggets minus one and a half, which I asked FanDuel, like, have we had a game seven line that low? And we really haven't.

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Like they're usually like three and up for a game seven. So even Vegas was like, we don't know. But I think game four, which we talked about a week ago, the one I went to at the Intuit, and the way the Nuggets played in that game, the desperation they had, where Jokic, Gordon, Murray, all of them were like, we have to win this. And they ended up winning on this crazy alley-oop.

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But the desperation they showed in that game Versus the desperation or lack of desperation the Clippers had yesterday. It was pretty telling. And I don't know what happened. I don't know whether Clippers wore out It's an older team, maybe playing on Thursday, maybe the Denver altitude. Maybe they kind of deep down knew they missed their shot in this series.

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But that third quarter, which I asked to rewatch this morning, the first five minutes of the third quarter for the Clippers was one of the most putrid, embarrassing displays of basketball on both ends I can remember. Because it was an eight-point game. Kawhi hit a three. And then for the next four minutes, they just took a complete shit on both ends. And there's 20 mistakes. It's just awful.

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And that was it. That was their season over in four minutes, basically. It was really bad. And I don't know what they do now.

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But he had assists in the first half, which kind of, which kind of shielded some of the stuff that he did that fucked them over in that first half. Like just not running back on defense, being lazy, you know, in a bunch of different ways with specific plays. And then in the third quarter, he's like, I'm taking it up two notches. And he was so bad for five minutes.

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Stop boxing out dudes. It's not, yeah, it's not just basketball. It's like the same fight. We just watched from the warriors. You watch and you go, where's the fight? This is game seven. You're going home. If you lose this game, you realize that, right? And you just don't see it. You saw it in game six.

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Game six, he came out, he was aggressive, he was attacking, and it was like, oh, this guy really cares that they win today. Game seven, it didn't seem like he cared.

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He's rebounding. He's playing defense. He's scrapping. He's trying to create stuff. So our friend Zach Lowe, when he wrote his heart and playoff piece, that was heading into round two of the Lakers series in 2020. When they won game one. And he had in that piece, he had in 15 games facing elimination since 2013, you know, hearted 90 assists, 79 turnovers, 40% field goal.

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The crunch time stuff was really bad, 38%. Nine for 50 on threes and crunch time during that stretch, right? Damn. Well, since then, 20, that's six more playoff exits. These were his elimination game totals. He had 30 points in the Lakers one that they lost, six turnovers. 22 and 21, he had 11 in the closeout in 22, 9 in 23, 16 in 24, and 7 in this game.

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But the total shots, he averaged 16 a game, 9.3 assists. 31 for 81 field goals and nine for 42, three points. So one thing that definitely happens is you can't make threes in these big games. But then if you go further, you know, this is just statistically one of the best offensive players of all time. Like I looked at how many guys have averaged 24 points a game just for their career.

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who have played 1,000 games or more, and it's 11. It's Jordan, Wilt, Durant, LeBron James, Oscar, Carl Malone, Kobe, Dominique, Steph Curry, Kareem, and James Harden. That's why we talk about this, because that's how good the stats are. You go to the playoffs, and there's only 16 guys who have played at least 140 games and averaged 22 a game or more. And they're all guys who won titles.

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Jordan, Durant, West, LeBron, Curry, Hakeem, Kobe, Dirk. Malone's the first one who didn't. Kareem, Shaq, Larry, Wilt, Harden, Wade, Havlicek. So he statistically resides in this area with all these great guys who have all won titles. And yet his legacy is over and over again. The worst possible things happen at the worst time for him.

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And, you know, we could talk about legacy and whether it actually matters because I think what we've learned the last 10 years is sometimes the legacy stuff doesn't matter as much and people choose to remember or forget what they want. But, you know, Zach was saying four or five years ago that this was the Carl Malone of guards.

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And it's worse now than it was when we were talking about it a few years ago. And this is it. What is he, 35, 36? He's been in the league 16 years. It's not going to get better. This is just the legacy. And the Clippers, you combine that with the Clippers and it's unbeatable.

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And you're playing a different team every game versus the same team seven times in a row.

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Yeah. And I think if you're the Warriors, you're just saying yourself, is that going to happen four times in a row? I'm going to do I wrote down with like four minutes left. The Rockets were three for 14 from three right as the game had gone south. And the Warriors, how many turnovers did they end up with? Seven. They had five turnovers with like four minutes left in the fourth quarter.

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That was the point of Zach's column in 2020. He's like, why haven't we had our James Harden playoff moment yet? And we've had six playoffs since he wrote that column. I'm mailing you... I'm texting you. Check your text.

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I just texted you what I'm about to run through. This is the James Harden. This is the levels of the bad James Harden closeout games. I'm going to rank them. James Harden closeout terrible games ranked. 2017 game six Spurs, I think was the worst one ever. This was the one where they lost by 39 at home, two for 11. He was one for two in the first half field goal wise as San Antonio went up by 18.

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And by the way, Kawhi Leonard did not play. Did not play in the game because he was hurt. The next one is the 2023 game six, game seven, the Boston combo where they blew game six, lost by nine. He was four for 16, 0 for six from three, five turnovers, one for six in the second half. They lost game seven by 24. He was three for 11 in that game with five turnovers.

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Coming up, it was a game seven weekend. Rasil and I are here to talk about all of it next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch of what's coming for you on Monday. It's a big movie.

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Next one, 2015 game five warriors round three conference finals. They lost by 14. It was two for 11 with 12 turnovers. They were down six at halftime. It was over five in the second half. So you have that. I put, this is a game they won, but 2015 game six Clippers round two, which they ended up winning by 12. He was five for 20 in the game bench for the comeback.

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They had a four day Houston's 40 and 15. They won that 40 to 15. They won the fourth quarter. Harder never played. He's one for seven in that game. Uh, the game seven this year, two parade field goals, seven points. Denver goes plus 16, the third quarter. He's over two field goals in that game. Uh, and then there's other ones. There's 22 game six, Miami, uh, They lose by nine.

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He's 0-2 in the second half field goals. Last year, game six, Dallas, round one, they lose by 13. He's 0-6 from three, 5-16. It goes on and on. The point is there's not a lot of good ones. And there's not even a lot of decent ones. And there's no great one. And in fact, probably the most honorable one he has was that year when they played the Bucs when he had the hammy and they lost an OT.

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And Kerr, that's been his passion point. Like if we play defense and we don't turn the ball over, we're always either going to be in the game or we're going to win. And the turnovers drive them crazy. And this is a team that can get really sloppy with the ball sometimes. Not today. Took care of it. That's another thing with the Steph game. Steph had two turnovers.

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and he was five for 17, but he had 22 points. He got to the line. He had nine assists. Remember he was playing on one leg. That was probably the most admiration I've had from one of these games. But, um, look, people are going to remember what they want to remember. Um, But I'm going to remember that this is a guy that you're just like, I'm so mad I didn't bet on Denver in game seven.

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When you think of the Clippers piece combined with the fact that the Clippers needed Harden to really come through in a big game, he's just never done it.

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Like the argument was what he did in game six. He was really, really good in game six. Right. That was game six of the Denver series. That was really good in that game. So the argument would be like, hey, he was really good in game six. Couldn't it happen again? And the answer is it can't.

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Was he going to put in Corey Brewer, Josh Smith? Amir Coffey is playing Corey Brewer? Maybe. Ben Simmons is Josh Smith? Oh my God, he just hit a three. He's pronounced Smith. Harden's been in the league 16 years, and it's a lot to ask for him to outplay Jokic in a game seven. But it leads to a pretty good what-do-you-do conversation if you're the Clippers. Real quick, though.

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How many times did he have two guys on him where he's like throwing the ball behind his head to Draymond or throwing these cross-court passes? I don't know. He finished 22-10-7. He led the team in rebounding. He led the team in assists. Had two steals, two blocks. He led the team in every category except points.

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One of the best left-handed players I've ever seen. Good start. Recreated offensive basketball in a couple of different ways. Was one of the best two guards in the first 25 years of the 21st century. Put up huge stats and his teams were always good. And something would happen to him in playoff series that none of us could really fully understand.

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And by the way, the same thing could be said about Karl Malone, but at least Karl Malone made the finals twice as the best guy in a finals team. Did I think he was going to come through in those games? I did not. But at least he was able to get that far and he won some big playoff series, you know, and Harden you know, Zach wrote that piece six years ago. What's the James Harden playoff moment.

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We still don't have it. It's, you know, I was thinking about this stuff because I was thinking about in the context of Carmelo, right. Cause I think Carmelo has had a nice little resurgence post career. And he, I think there's, he's, I think a popular X star. Right. And I think people remember his Knicks era really fondly. He won one playoff series with the Knicks.

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If you go through Carmelo in the playoffs, he starts out with five straight first round exits. And you know I'm a Carmelo fan. I was the one who wrote the Carmelo column about how I felt like he had a chance to be on that level and he was just bad luck with his teams. My homepage. Five straight first round exits. He lost 18 of his first 21 playoff games.

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In the 2009 playoffs, they won two rounds, lost to LA in six. They lost the first round the next year to Utah. His career record in Denver, playoff record, two for seven in playoff series, 15 and 28 career record. Goes to the Knicks, three years, one for three in playoff series, seven and 14 is his record. Average 28 a game, then missed the playoffs the next four years.

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And now Brunson is hot this year and people are like, who's better? Who's the greatest Nick ever? Him or Carmelo? Because people can't remember anything. So that bringing my point back to James Harden, maybe people won't remember 10 years from now. They'll be like, oh yeah, the beard. He was awesome.

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They're not going to remember any of this stuff because they certainly don't remember anything with Carmelo.

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But I'm just saying he didn't really have any success as like from a playoff standpoint as a player. But I think now as the years pass, people feel like he was on like that LeBron Wade level in some ways. My point is you actually go through it like it's it's pretty grim.

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And had Thompson coming at him, Thompson was hitting a point in the third quarter when he just seemed like he thought he could go to the basket every single time. Cause he could. And then he was guarding Steph on the other hand, on the other end and shutting him down. And there was this moment where I was like, God damn it. Do I have to raise the ceiling of the Thompson building?

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I feel a hundred times worse about Harden. I'm just saying, I just wonder with legacy sometimes when people are like, legacy, legacy, legacy, legacy. We don't even do a good job of remembering what legacies were or what happened in somebody's career. I think Carmelo had a lot of bad luck He pushed his way to the Knicks and they traded all these guys back to Denver.

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But for the most part, for what his talent was to never, to never make a finals, to be in one round three, like it's kind of disappointing in retrospect, because I thought he was one of the best guys of that generation. And he's the one that nothing really happened.

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It's a Clippers series, yeah. Yeah. Well, he won three playoff series in his career and is 22 for 42 in the playoffs. But that's the thing. I think as the years pass, people remember what they want to remember. And the Twitter videos and the social media stuff becomes as big a part of somebody's legacy as... as anything else. And I think James will probably be okay. Big picture.

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Cause the stats are going to have them look at Carl Malone. You and I were there for the Carl Malone era and now the years pass and people are like, yeah, Carl Malone stats. Holy shit. Wow. Made the finals twice. It's like, all right, well, you wouldn't want to throw in the ball with 18 seconds left.

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Big game, Jimmy. Well, big picture, what do you do if you're the Clippers? What do you do? Well, Kawhi's going to be there two years. Harden has got a $36 million player option. They have Powell and Bogdanovich and Eubanks and Batum for $46 million expiring next year. They can put contracts together. They don't really have any picks to move.

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They can put together some contracts and take somebody else's high salary problem or somebody who's a little expensive that maybe somebody wants to dump because they're tanking. But, you know, do we run back this team and be like, hey, we lost to the best offensive player since Jordan, basically, in round one and seven. Let's not overreact. Or do you overreact?

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Well, it's more of the player acquisition list. Sure. Can you talk yourself into Zion? Can you talk yourself into Trae Young? There's eight of those guys. Yeah. It's a bonus. Hmm. What's he up to?

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Do I, do I, I, cause I had it set at 15 floors. Do I have to like blow the roofs out and bring it up to 25? He is, I thought, I just thought he was such a gem. And I think you're right. It's an interesting what if for them. If he doesn't hurt his calf, could they have like pulled this off defensively? My thing is they just didn't get any offense from anybody other than Thompson.

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But now I'm in business with James Harden for three more years. I just...

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To say the least. I mean, we just went through it for eight minutes. And now we have to bring him back for three years? I would do $36 million if you opt in. Okay, let's see how it goes. And then I have him. I have all these expirings. And I can get a little frisky either before the season or heading into February. Because the best thing that happened to them is Kawhi.

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And how good Kawhi was, I think the last three months of this season combined with Zubats at the foundation of something and have some flexibility and they have one of the, but it's a front office. You and I both really respect. Like, I feel like they're going to figure out they have options.

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But that doesn't mean you have to give James Harden a hundred million for three, like we'll shave 5 million off your deal. But I wasn't talking about a hundred million. What would you do? If he's going to opt out of his 36, then you're talking about those deals like CJ McCollum did, some other people where it's like, I'll opt out.

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Listen, you're asking me to figure out the motivations of somebody who's passed up two giant max deals over the last six years to take less money each time. But we know I did it in Philly. Yeah, no, I get it. Well, the bigger question for me is you're in the West. You're in the same division or the same conference as OKC, who's just a fucking nightmare.

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You're in the same conference as Minnesota, who's a fucking nightmare. You have Wemby and San Antonio with these draft picks and cap space. You have Luka and the Lakers. He gone through. It's a nightmare conference. And Jokic, who just beat you. I don't know. You're in no man's land. But the owner just flew 200 fans to Denver for game seven. He's going to think they have a chance on the way back.

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I mean, Shingun had some around the basket points, but everyone else, Jalen Green, three for eight in what could be his last Rockets performance. Dylan Brooks, three for nine. Jabari, one for five. Tyrese and two for six. Like they just couldn't get anybody to get hot. And then Van Vliet couldn't do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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if you had to do a pie chart of this will be better next year, this would be the same or, Ooh, this will be worse. I think the, Ooh, this will be worse is 60% of the pie. Right. Cause you, you basically have to get another healthy Kauai season. I have no, no idea how many of those are left. You know, you're never getting a better Zubat season. You got Norm Powell. You might get the same.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You might get the same. You're not getting a better season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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I thought, it's weird, his stats went down as the series went along, but I really respected how he went at Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know where the rebounding was for him. I thought he was a better rebounder in the regular season than he was in the playoffs. But I just think, I think when you play Jokic for two straight weeks, I think it starts to break your brain after a while. If you're actually, you're in charge of defending him and stopping him. Can you imagine that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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the response, but just like going to sleep and being like, yeah, I got to play yoga again tomorrow. Like, like that's like three hours sleep. He's lying in bed, staring at the ceiling. Fucking a, um, next team for what do you do?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The crazy scenario is, do you take a big contract from somebody that somebody is kind of excited to get off of? Like whatever this year's version of Brandon Ingram is. And Brandon Ingram didn't get traded. Do you talk yourself into a Brandon Ingram type? Somebody who's available and expensive. You know, that's the question for me. I don't know who that is yet because we haven't seen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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First of all, the playoffs have to shake out a certain way. Somebody might tail out in the second, you know, in the second round. Who knows? The Pistons get really interesting because they have Hardaway and Schroeder and Beasley all as unrestricted free agents. They have Tobias on a 26.6 expiring. They have Ivy coming back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you could talk me into, hey, let's just keep the trains moving. The thing I would recommend them not doing is overreacting to how the playoffs went and doing new, longer, big deals with Beasley and Hardaway and Schroeder and being like, we have our nucleus. I would go the hired gun route for those. But, you know, this is an interesting KD destination. So let's talk about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Hardaway was an old contract. So he was like 16, 17 million range. He's not saying that again. He's, he's now a six to 8 million player, I think in the market.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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So Phoenix calls and says, you know, Tobias and Thompson and Fontecchio actually works in the trade machine with KD and throw us some picks and let's start talking. You have the meeting? You have the internal meeting with the rest of the front office trying to figure it out? You definitely have a meeting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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I'm saying, do you have a small meeting with your inner circle or do you keep it open and invite a bunch of people? What is it again? Do you have a catered lunch for the meeting? How... Little Caesars. Yeah, probably get a deal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Just Tobias Fontecchio, but Thompson would be the big piece. And then you'd throw a bunch of picks. You'd do three firsts and two swaps, whatever the fuck it is, for three years of KD. Then you bring in KD for 50 plus million. You'd sign him for the two-year extension. So it's 150 million commitment. I personally wouldn't do it. Why?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Because I don't think they're going to win the title or come close with any sort of trade. The only one that I think you really have to think about is if they could get Giannis and it's a mortgage to farm thing and basically everybody's available except Cade. like Durant and Thompson are in it. Tobias' contract is in it. Fontecchio's in it. Picks are in it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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You're just like, we're going all in on Giannis and we're going to have a Giannis-Cade franchise. And we'll be able to fill it around. We'll be able to fill around those two guys and actually try to win the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. You've probably thrown in some Tigers, maybe a couple of Red Wings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So we agree. Take your time, Detroit. Like maybe even target February as let's see where we are in February. And maybe we have some expiring. So we have some stuff. I would not overpay Beasley. I'd probably go two years for him. Maybe like a 30 for two. 30 for two, maybe hard away two for 16. Try to try to do something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Yeah. I'm always nervous you're going to suggest a Jalen Brown trade. LeBron is a $52 million player option. Yep. Kleba and Vincent, $22.5 million combined expiring. Rui's on an 18.3 expiring. Finney-Smith's on a 15.4 expiring. This is all next year. Then Reeves is 14 and then 15. So they have some flexibility. Kept a couple picks. They clearly need a center and a rim runner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My question would be, would you trade Reeves? If you could get a, if you get a real, real, some sort of rim protector, somebody like a, like a richer man's miles Turner in that range, would you trade Reeves? Or do you feel like you could build around Luca Reeves and 41 year old LeBron? And then there's something there to try to win multiple playoff rounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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And then he drafted his son and gave him a four-year no-cut contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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You know what season it is though right now? It's ridiculous trades on social media for centers they'll never get. It's like they should get BAM out of Bayou. It's like, oh, cool.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, how they get somebody is if you have the two expirings. I mean, the thing is with all the expirings, they can work toward any kind of number, right? So could they get some bonus?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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like as a bam like would you do austin reeves for bam just in a vacuum no if you were the lakers no i wouldn't do it if i'm miami i'm not doing that in a million years why am i trading bam for austin i'm just trying to see where your head's at with this i was thinking sabonis i thought was an interesting one because if i'm sacramento no all right god if i'm sacramento

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You've seen it Monday night. It's going to be on the ringer movies, YouTube channel. It's going to be a video podcast on Spotify. It might be more than one part, or maybe it'll just be one part. I don't want to spoil it. Could be one part. Could be two. Get ready. Uh, This podcast is going to be back Tuesday and then Thursday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I put together this team that clearly doesn't work. I'm paying Sabonis more money than he's worth for somebody who's basically, if he's your most expensive guy, you're going to be a slightly better than 500 team. You're probably not going to have a huge playoff upside and you're going to get torched defensively unless you put the perfect amount of guys around him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And could you give them a get out of jail free card with that Sabonis contract? Be like, we'll give you all expirings and a couple firsts, and you can get out of Sabonis. I don't know if the Kings are at that point with that contract yet. They might not be. Look at the contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Allowed 11 minutes from Looney. It felt like he played like 25. He only played 11.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I'll tell you this. Paying LeBron $52 million when he's 41 years old is fucking crazy. That's a lot of money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I was thinking with Utah, who has too many guys plus a bunch of picks, and if they floated Austin Reeves to Utah, what's the reaction? That's one where you could get a three-for-one and a four-for-one and picks. That feels weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we could have Cooper Flagg? Just... I think Reeves on that contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think. I think Reeves at 14 and 15. But when you throw expirings with him, you could get some really good players at that point. I don't know if you could get BAM out of bio.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Talk about get-out-of-jail-free cards. I think the Sixers do it in a second, by the way. We'll give you all of our expirings. and a first and we'll get you out of the Joel Embiid of business. Here's your get out of jail free card right now. You don't have to deal with them anymore.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Should we say something about Bobby Barak again? We could get aggregated by them too. Let's try to get aggregated. I think Barak will pick that up. Post.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just hadn't heard that. I was excited about the info. I think Daryl talks to everybody all the time. I think he calls people constantly and they're like, fuck Daryl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. So, all right. That's my favorite Lakers move. All their expirings and two first round picks and they get Embiid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Reeves isn't in it. Oh, Reeves isn't in it. He's not in it. You don't even get Reeves. We don't know if Embiid's ever playing again. I'm like, I'll take Embiid. You can have one of our first round picks and here's a bunch of expirings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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When was the last time you got super excited watching Clint Capella play basketball?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Now we're talking. DeAndre Ayton. So a couple of expirings. Do you think when they shop Rui around all summer while pretending that they really like him, they're just hoping nobody watches the rebounding in game five? He was really good for us this year. Can we see the tape of game five? It's been destroyed. We don't have it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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LeBron has wanted to play with somebody like this for his entire career.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Luka still remembers how good Aiton was in their one playoff series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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So you're saying Rui... I feel like they could, I think they could keep Rui. I think they could get Aiton for Maxi Kleba, Gabe Vincent, and another contract and throw a first round pick. And Portland's super happy to dump that last Aiton year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. And I think I'd even say top four protected. Great. We saw the Lakers. Milwaukee Bucks, I have no solution for. I really wanted to come out here and say something provocative and smart and forward-thinking, and I don't know what it is. But the thing is, if Giannis says, I don't want to be traded, then do you trade him? What if Giannis says, I'm happy here, I don't want to leave Milwaukee?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you know the other thing? It felt like Golden State... Like you were talking about the rebounding. Because I agree. Like watching the game go along, it's like, ah, they're holding their own today. Houston out-rebounded them by 14. And it really came down to...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He'd have to ask out. And even if he asks out, I'm not trading him unless I can get a trade I'm pumped about. And that's it. I'm not going to give you away for 60 cents on the dollar because you don't want to play for us anymore. You signed an extension. Let me try to figure out a good trade for us. Can't figure it out. What's taking in this season?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And try to figure it out in the December, February range once eight teams are unhappy with how their season is going. Then we'll do the trade. But you have our word. At some point, we're going to do it. Just keep playing hard and we'll figure it out. And then you kind of keep your fingers crossed that Dame can come back from Achilles surgery in five months. Dame sets the record for coming back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's... They're... You know, they made two trades where they gave up an inordinate amount of picks for one player because they wanted to win the title and they won the 2021 title. They couldn't win it with Dame, but they traded a shitload of draft picks. Like this is what happens. If you're mortgaging all this stuff to win now, everyone forgets that part.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like, oh man, they got to get Yana some help. It's like they did. They made two massive trades and gave away a bunch of assets to try to get him help. And now they're here. This is how it works. This is how the league works. And they have Kuzma on the books. Well, that one, neither of us agreed with because we watch basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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I don't know how anybody could watch basketball this season and thought Kuzma was going to make a difference.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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The Heat got knocked out and I don't really know what the Heat do either. Where you have a Bam Hero Wiggins Foundation, right? Wiggins? Wiggins. He's still there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When you only make three three-point shots in the first 48 minutes of an NBA game and the other team ends up with 18, I don't care how many extra rebounds you get. If you're going to be minus 15 on three-pointers, that's too many points. It becomes math after a while. If one team is going to get 54 points from three and the other team is going to get 18.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Hero got barbecued in the Cleveland series. He did, but his shot making... It's really good. Maybe he should be a sixth man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The only reason I wouldn't count them out is just because they've pulled rabbits out of the hat over and over again over the last 15 years. Every time we felt like rock bottom, then they'd make some even the Butler thing, which is one of the craziest transaction sequences in the recent history of the league. And they pulled it off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I still don't know how they got anyone to take us on Whiteside. I still don't understand it. But this time it seems bleak because I thought, you know, the one guy we didn't mention that I wonder is out there in some form who I think would be considered a real asset is Jaron Jackson. If Memphis is handcuffed at all by being able to spend as much money as it's going to take to keep him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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If he makes All-NBA this year and different triggers come in, I just... Just monitoring that one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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The rebounding makes me madder than the fouls. Can you get nine rebounds?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I forgot to give you one Giannis situation. If OKC somehow lost this round or next round, huge upset loss, would Presti, who, by the way, has only made the finals once and lost the finals 4-1 and has not been back since... even though we all agree he's one of the best GMs of this century, but at some point he hasn't won titles or even finals games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I wonder if he would just be like, fuck it and do like a giant Giannis thing. And if you're Giannis and you could go to OKC and be on this incredible team, like that's a team that's actually built to make a 160 cents on the dollar trade. They want it to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, I think if OKC doesn't win this year, they have to really think, we're really close. How did we not win the title? We were favored. All the math said we were going to win the title. If they get bounced in one of these next three rounds, I think that's the biggest overreaction team, even though Preston doesn't overreact. I think you'd have to really think about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What's the point of having all these assets and all these picks if you're not going to cash them in at some point? This isn't blackjack where you just get to stack chips. At some point, you have to try to win the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They have the best chance this year, but if Giannis is on the table and they can make a run at him and they're bummed out because they couldn't get it done in the playoffs when it mattered, I don't know. I still think my bet would be in Houston. If I had to bet on a team, I think the Houston thing makes so much sense in so many different ways. I think it's a good spot for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think it's good for everybody. That's the trade that makes sense to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you insist on Chet, right? If you're Milwaukee, you're like, Chet has to be in it. I'm not even discussing this unless... Call me back when Chet's in the trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Presti... Yeah, I think a man's a quicker no. Because Chet's been hurt twice already.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You're right. He's also one of those guys when you watch him run around, you're like, ah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, and listen, you don't have to sell me on chat. It's just, you know, he said two injuries is 23. So that part does scare me a tiny bit. So I think when you ask me quick or no, I just think Thompson's like, I'm not trading that dude. Shut up. Hang up. But if I'm OKC, I'm trying to, now I'm assuming I've had some sort of terrible playoff loss. Probably trying to start with, how about Hartenstein?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then, and how about, have you seen Kaysom Wallace? He's really good, huh? You hear Rosillo talk about Usman Jang? See our lottery pick? We had the seventh pick in the draft. Like anyone in the lottery? Yeah, you're moving that way. But that's the thing. If Giannis is actually going to be traded, good people are going to be in the trade. You don't just get to not put a good person in the trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Shingun, Jabari, Eason. And Jalen Green, at least three, but maybe even all four are all in the trade, right? If I'm not getting Thompson, then I get everybody else. That's where we're starting. Just keep giving me dudes. We got to wrap it up. Do you have any, you want to do a Bill Belichick update quick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was trying to think that maybe with coaches... Maybe it just doesn't end well and that's how this usually goes with guys who are super powerful and fly a little too close to the sun and are used to controlling their circumstances, which becomes harder and harder as you get older and you have to stay on top of the ball. that maybe this goes worse more times than we realize.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And when we're talking about, I can't believe this is happening to Belichick. Maybe we shouldn't be surprised that it's happening to somebody in their mid seventies, that they're making some bad decisions because we see this in every aspect of life. It's like, what's he doing with this girl? It's like, well, you know,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But this has leaked into the actual running this UNC program in a variety of ways, which is how it became a bigger story. And also, that interview was so crazy. And for somebody who has been so intensely private where you just know nothing about him ever. And he, you know, and then for that to happen the way it happened is just like, it's just really weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He would have been a top five draft pick of, I would never expect anything like this to happen in this person.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Bad analogy. Oh, no, it was the opposite of the Clippers. My bad. I got my wire screwed up. It was the complete opposite of the Clippers. My bad. Not a lot of fight there. Not a lot of fighting over screens, protecting the rim, grabbing rebounds. This is best of nine, right? Game eight. We got to save Harden. Let's rest these dudes. So Buddy healed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Buddy Hield Game, Indy’s Dangerous, a Clips Collapse, and “Whaddya Do” Teams With Ryen Russillo

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Sounds like Schrager during the NFL draft. We're going to throw it to you and Schefter again. Just smile for a minute.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's one other level to that point. It explains a lot about what happened from the mid 2010s on with Brady and Belichick. Because everyone was like, Patriot Way, Patriot Way were just about Super Bowls, but there was clearly some sort of ego thing. And it's two guys that really understood their place in history in a whole bunch of different ways, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it was, I was like, we're in this together. There's no credit, but the credit thing was a big part of it. And Garoppolo's in there and he's really thinking about, I never wanted to believe it. I never, when Rick or Sham and people like that were reporting about it. And I was like, fuck that. I want to hear this. Stop trying to cause trouble. But there clearly was a ton of trouble.

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And I think when you win, you win titles like that. We've seen this over. We saw it with the last dance documentary. You know, and you saw the Kraus, Jordan, you saw Jordan Pippen, who no longer talk. They hated Kraus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, they seem to get like Phil Jackson, but then you look at the Kobe Shaq stuff with Phil Jackson and Phil Jackson's writing books. The credit grabbing that happens when you've had real success is surprising because the rings... should be the best example of how much success you've had, but for whatever reason.

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How many career playoff games do you think he's had? Counting the seven in the series.

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So anyway, I think that really explained to me why Brady didn't end up with the Patriots because what everybody was writing about and doing the sports radio topic of who's more responsible for all the Super Bowls, Belichick or Brady, and the right answer was always both. They needed each other and that's the answer.

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But clearly they both kind of thought each of them was more responsible than the other. So when I read that paragraph, I thought, man, Belichick must've been so pissed when Brady had that Tampa season where he won the title. Cause clearly he does give a shit about all this stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And all the media he did last year, the fact that he's writing this book, some of the documentaries, and we always thought, nah, he doesn't care. He doesn't care. He clearly really cares. And so I read that same email and I'm like, oh, he really did. He really does have a massive ego about all this stuff that he would say that.

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When you start throwing around dollar figures. Is he wrong? I mean, when Kraft bought the Patriots, they were ready to move to St. Louis and they didn't. He kind of saved the team. They were the black sheep of the local sports scene. And then Brady and Belichick, I think both of them probably built it up. But like, you know, we saw this happen when LeBron was in Cleveland, right?

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Cleveland was like a top four franchise and all the Forbes lists. And then he left and went to Miami and they were like 28th. And then he came back in 2014. It's like top five franchises and Cleveland's in there. So... you know, you get the right asset and it does make the franchise.

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But you don't think he put that in there partly because of what Kraft did with that Dynasty Apple thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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when Kraft's just rewriting history as the three of us. That last 10 years, I was just holding on. I was holding us together with all the dumb shit he said of that. And now it's just, these guys are like, they're in credit grab Bukkake. Just going at it. Just battling each other.

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Yeah, sorry. It's over the two-hour mark. Maybe I'll get aggregated again. It'd be great. Gotta get those aggregators something. Anyway, Belichick's a classic example of if you had just left four years ago and just moved to Wyoming...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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done the johnny carson yeah i don't know i talk about you so highly when you've been competing your entire life i don't blame guys for wanting to hang on to the whole thing i'll the brady tampa that's my second favorite brady super bowl i'm talking about the the unc 24 year old pr person controlling his life people wondering if it's elder abuse like really like dark shit

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Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And I was like, wow, he really replicated the Klay Thompson game. And then I was like, I got to make sure I can't remember the Klay stats from that game. 41 points, 11 for 18 from three. Clay Thompson in 2016. So yeah, Clay, you're safe. You're way over here, buddy. But I mean, to get that out of him. And I've always kind of liked Buddy Heald.

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People like this has gotten to the point that like my wife's friends are asking me about, hey, what's going on with Bill Belichick and this girl? I read like on Apple News, they had a story about how great like that's what this has reached. That CBS Sunday morning thing was like his version of Tom Cruise on the Oprah couch. It's part of his legacy now.

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No, but maybe, but this is what people are worried about. Maybe he's not, not batting a thousand right now.

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That Sunday morning thing was insane. That was insane. I never in a million kajillion years would have guessed that he would be in that position.

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Out of all people, that was... That would be a good pod.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Before we go, picks for round two. Celtics, you still going Cleveland?

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It's like everyone's game seven. So like Christian Brown became right. That was the Grant Williams game for Christian Brown, where he's just huge. Like the game seven. So there's always the random. It's the buddy healed. Yeah. You always see those. That would have been a fun one to predict for a fan. A little bit. Uh, we're silly. You got two pods this week.

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And then I will see you live on Sunday night, which will not be as fun as this one. Our guy, Steph Curry came through. Good to see you, my friend. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to basketball for giving us two game sevens over the weekend. We thought we might get zero. I will be back on Tuesday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Don't forget huge rewatchables coming on Monday. Get ready. You can follow all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And I will see you on Tuesday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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It's always been one of those, you're always, you know, certain guys in the NBA you're glass half full with. We're like, ah, it's the right situation. I can really see him thriving. And it's just never really... happened in a sustained way for a good team. Then it's, you think, is he just a good stats, bad team guy? And then he just became a bad stats, mediocre team guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you can follow the clips and videos on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel where we went live tonight after Golden State and Houston with Ryan Rosillo. And it's coming right now. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. Bill Simmons here with Ryan Russillo. It's Buddy Heald Day. Who knew? The nephew of the Klay Thompson game.

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And they sign him in the offseason, and he has a really good first four weeks with them. It's like, oh, man, he might be able to be quiet. And then halfway through the year, he's not playing anymore. And then they get this out of him, and they save him. And now they live to fight another day. The Minnesota matchup seems pretty intimidating after what we just watched.

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But a lot of pride on this Steve Kerr, Drayvon Green, Steph Curry era, I think.

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How healthy do we think Butler can be in a week? And how healthy did he look to you today? He doesn't have a week. No, I know. I assume they're going to lose game one. I mean, that game they just played counted as like a game and a half. That's the thing with these playoff games. If you start doing like, was that just one playoff game?

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Like that game we just watched was a game and a half of miles and energy expended. They're challenging everything. Yeah. Yeah, it's like the pitch count thing we always talk about. Yeah, that was a 145 pitch game by the Warriors just now. And you're asking them to basically throw three days from now and try to throw seven innings again. So I just assume.

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I have the series line. Do you want to guess Minnesota Golden State?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, you're getting really good at this. One of the things I'm proudest at in life is I felt like you were gambling. Gambling. What's the word? Lingual. When I met you. But now I feel like I feel like you could move to Vegas for an NBA season and maybe make a run at it. You're almost there. Minus 155.

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Coming up Sundays, basketball, Rosillo, you know, the drill it's next. We're also brought to you by the ringer podcast network. We're having new rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did an Oscar winner. You'll be able to watch that as a video podcast on Spotify. You can watch it on the ringer movies, YouTube channel as well. Uh, if you love the Oscars, uh,

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So, uh, they could pass the buck and I'm not defending Darrell because I thought, uh, I would have rather resigned than give and beat that extension.

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I would have been like, listen, I just, can you, can we just talk buyout? Cause this is the dumbest. I can't believe we're doing this.

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But then we're now in the bus-throwing stage with this Philly situation, and they're in a weird spot because if they get the seventh pick and they don't end up with one of these top six picks in a draft that's awesome, this is a catastrophic, we haven't had a season this bad for a team in 10 years.

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Cleveland had a big Friday. We're covering it all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we are taping this a little after 1230 Pacific time. Just watch Celtics Nuggets that we're going to talk about later. The star of Shot Caller 2 is here, Ryan Russillo. You look great.

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We're two years away from that.

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Also, you watched him in the Olympics. You watched him in the Olympics not look 100%. So if you don't sign him, you still have under contract for two years. You can't do the wait and see that. What's he going to do? Like hold out? You know, it was just it's a catastrophic decision. And it was bad when it happened. We talked about it when it happened. We talked about it in our season preview.

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What did you think? Just out of curiosity, what was the worst decision than that extension?

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Oh, fair. I thought you were talking off season. Yeah. Yeah. Lucas, you're right. Luca trades, uh, number one entrenched. I've gone to three Lakers games. Yeah. You're like, when are you buying a Jersey?

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Yeah, it's the thing he used to do in Dallas. And I've been interested in why, because I know JJ knows it. I think JJ has done a really good job this year. Luca is one of those, do I have it or not in the first quarter guys, which I think Tatum's a little bit like this too, where they'll use the first quarter to see. Steph does it all the time.

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And I think the Lakers have already been like, yeah, you figure out in the first quarter how you are. And I've been so impressed by LeBron just kind of all right, I'll, I'll wait and see too. And then I'll see where I fit in today. And then he always gets his stats and he's been, you know, I'm sure you saw it in person.

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I have this alternate pin-down defense I'm working on. Pin-down three.

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And even when you're watching them, it still feels like they have legitimate holes. And yet, collectively, they've figured out how to cover up for a lot of them. I still feel like the right kind of point guard can just get whatever shot they want. And then the bench, some of the bench guys I just don't trust at all, but it works.

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And everybody, it's like JJ said this a couple weeks ago, that the biggest lesson he learned as coach during the season was it's all about whether your guys play hard. And it's the most simple point ever. It wouldn't be an interesting mind the game episode. But I think this is the recurring theme for the best teams in the league.

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The listeners can't hear it, can't see it, but you got like a, it's like an early 2000s Red Sox setup guy, Fu Manchu kind of look. Is that a Van Dyke or a Fu Manchu?

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Like all of them give a shit game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half. And the Lakers, to their credit, it's impressive. And then you look at Philly on the flip side of that. where how many times did you watch a Philly quarter where you're like, this is the worst thing I've ever seen? What's happening? How are they allowing this?

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Same for the Phoenix Suns, where they're just like, yeah, I'm just going to go in the corner. If I'm not getting the ball, I might not run back.

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Be careful. Be careful attacking him long.

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And they're like fourth in the last 20, I think, too. So it's getting better. Every 10-game stretch is better than the last 10-game stretch.

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You get two-way LeBron back as part of all this because he was one-way LeBron for two months.

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He's been really good. The Philly thing, I don't know what the answer is.

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The thing is, they're probably going to be sixth, and all it takes is one team to jump them. It's this incredible lottery thing because... If they don't keep the top six, one team jumps them and they fall back to seven. And then OKC gets that pick and OKC's, what, going to be like a 64-win team? Probably going to be in the finals.

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They're going to get the seventh pick, eighth pick in this awesome draft that I've been dabbling in a little bit. I'm starting to get some draft opinions. We don't have to do that today, but this looks like if you're in the top five in this draft, you're getting somebody that is going to be legitimately exciting. Right.

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Like if you get edge call him with the fifth pick, it's like that guy might be awesome. He might be, um, you know, like an all NBA wing in seven years. I don't know. This draft draft just seems stacked, especially compared to this rookie class we just had. So anyway, uh, the Philly thing. Wow. And the Eagles won.

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And I think the Philly fans are still riding a high, but, uh, it's hard to imagine a bleaker situation. Unless you're the Suns, because I think that one's slightly bleaker. There's really only the, we got to trade Booker move, and it just seems like they're adamant they're not going to trade him. I just don't think they're going to get a lot for Durant.

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Last year of his deal, making 50 plus million. I don't know what you're getting for him. You're 19 in the league. Clearly not exactly the same as where he was seven years ago. What are you getting for him? Not that much.

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Washington would be the most fun for me or San Antonio would be my reckless speculation. What do you have something better?

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I love the bored with your face moments. Not just you, but me. I have them too, where you're just like, ah, fuck it. Grow a mustache. Didn't you do it for PTI? I did. We did. We did mustache week. Me and Levitard, we just both grew like big bushy, like buddy cop mustaches. Yeah, it's fun. Lately, I've been shaving.

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Or is there a Booker trade that you just overwhelm them? I know you don't want to trade Devin Booker, but how about this? And for Phoenix, it's the only get out of jail free card they have, basically. And Houston has some Phoenix picks too, is the other piece of that. So I just don't think Ishby is going to be like, okay, cool. Now we're going to tank.

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We're going to do the process for a couple of years. I think that dude is wired the opposite way, where we can get out of this. If we could just do this. My favorite story of the whole post-trade deadline was that Minnesota was trying to trade for Durant. That was my favorite.

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I just want to know how that trade's possible between Phoenix and Minnesota when they're both like well over the second apron. What is the scenario where those two teams could have made a Kevin Durant trade? It's like, well, if Minnesota had been able to shed some apron stuff, cool. Where were they doing that? Just, hey, can you guys take Randall? Sure, we'll take him.

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How are they shedding apron? I can't take some of the, some of the, after the fact. And I know where it's coming. Like Minnesota is like, you know, they leak it to whoever. We're kicking the tires on Durant. We really try to, yeah, you can run with this. We're really trying to get them. How? You're not getting Kevin Durant. Who are you trading for him? You can't make a two for one in the apron.

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Yeah. And Milwaukee had no idea he was available. It's great. There's some really good ones. Let's, uh, let's take a break. And then, uh, There's one big topic I want to hit with you. This episode is brought to you by Miclobe Ultra. Miclobe Ultra, a superior light beer and the ultimate trophy. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand.

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This is going up before the Oscars, but Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins will be reacting to the Oscars, I think right after the telecast. So check out the big picture for that. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where I don't know if you know, but we're doing these player performance doubles with FanDuel. Two leg parlays already made for you.

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1939.624

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That feels like a move now to be like, yeah, I'm going to shave like a couple of times a week. Back with the shaving.

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And I just feel like we have to talk about it because it became a huge topic on Friday. And I always judge this stuff by anecdotally, if people in my life are asking about us, like, ah, fuck, we probably have to talk about it. But LeBron started this whole thing with the face of the game and how negatively everybody's covering the league. And there was a Gilbert Arenas clip on first take.

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talking about how nice everyone was back in the day to the stars, and now they're not. And I just, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills because I've been here the whole time. I think I have a really good handle historically of the league and all the ebbs and flows.

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Thank you. I think this is the nicest era to be an NBA star that we've ever had. And, um, it's amazing to me when, when people dwell on the negativity, there's other reasons for the negativity, but if you go backwards and you look at the seventies and the eighties and nineties and two thousands and how players were treated and discussed, it is no contest compared to right now.

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Um, that's the first thing. And I have some stuff I want to do, but give me your initial take on that.

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But that's the point. It's not just the NBA. Everyone has more access to the alternate side of what you want to hear in all vocations in life. It's not an NBA thing. It's an everything thing. So to say it's just devoted to the NBA to me is like ludicrous. This is just what life is like now.

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Well, so this is the problem with this argument is that if you actually go through it, everybody has gone through the exact same stuff that the guys go through now. So I'm going to do my three minute first take monologue. We have time. 1970s. People hated the NBA. The games were tape delayed and people bitched about the league and were writing crazy pieces about this league doesn't work.

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There's actually pieces you could read in Sports Illustrated. The league's too black. What are we going to do? Like it could not have been more negative. I promise you. Dr. J, beloved star, gets to Philadelphia. He's ripped for not winning a title for the first six years until Moses gets there. That's a huge narrative of the Dr. J thing. He can't come through when it matters. Magic Johnson.

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Westhead gets fired in 81. He's booed at home. He's devastated, destroyed, crushed. It's most selfish guy. What's wrong? These are the modern athletes. He went through all that shit and he's talked about it. He's crushed after the 84 finals to Larry Bird after the title in his back pocket. Right, he already would. Larry Bird had already won two in the 85 finals. There was the bar fight thing.

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Everyone was mad at him in Boston. But then in the 90 season, when he came back from the heel surgery, took a ton of shit about being selfish. Barkley was basically driven out of Philly by the media. Hakeem almost got traded in 92 because it got so bad with him in Houston. Isaiah... Just got the reputation as you're an asshole, you're a backstabber. They left him off the dream team.

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Michael Jordan, beloved now, too selfish to win for seven years. Up until the 91 finals, it's like he shoots too much. All he cares about is his own points. He can't win with this guy. And then after he went twice, remember in the 93 playoffs, it was so negative about the gambling stuff. He stopped talking to everybody. He stopped talking to the media. And then he retired.

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And people are like, is he retiring? Because it's too much pressure. Kevin Johnson took a ton of shit, couldn't stay healthy, 94 finals. Pippen didn't take the shot in the 94 playoffs and still carries it 30 years later. David Robinson, too nice, loser. Well, didn't he come back in? Right, when they come back in and then wore that, you know, for 30 years.

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Dream Team 94, I promise you, was not popular when it happened. People were not happy with it. Shaq, in the entire 1990s, people bitched about Shaq. When is he going to take basketball seriously? Why does he do all this other stuff? Why is he doing movies and music? Patrick Ewing could have won the big one. Carl Malone, who took more shit than Carl Malone in the last two finals he was in.

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Iverson, which I think has come around and is like this beloved figure now. He was not beloved in the 90s, in the early 2000s. He took a ton of shit. Christian Laettner, bust, disappointment. All those late 90 guys, when we head into that lockout, remember how much people, how mad people were at the league? These guys are making so much money. Yeah.

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There was any Anderson can't feed his family, all that shit.

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It's like, I can't identify with somebody who's making that much money. That was an attitude through the 90s. I have a couple more. Jason Kidd traded twice, took a ton of shit. Chris Weber. One of those trades. Well, one of those trades had to happen. But the Dallas trade, Chris Weber was an all-time hot potato guy and we called him out all the time.

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His Washington career was incredibly disappointing. He got to Sacramento and it's like, watch C-Web. He's going to turn completely away from the basket to hit the ball to make Bibby. He wants no part of this. We made fun of him. Kobe, I would say was the most picked apart athlete in the 2000s. I wouldn't even say football player. And that you might go Peyton Manning.

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But there was a lot of Kobe stuff that then when he won the two titles at the end of the decade, then they kind of circled around the other way. But it got right. And there was the trial. There was a whole bunch of stuff with Kobe. But if you go to the 0-4 finals, 0-5, 0-6, 0-7, him not shooting in the second half of that Suns game, and how nuts we all went after the fact. Not great.

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T-Mac, can't win. Vince, quit on Toronto. He's soft. KG, can't win. Dirk, who took more shit than Dirk from 06 to 2011. He's soft. He's a choke artist. He's a loser. I think he took probably, other than Kobe the most, Dwight Howard. I keep going. The point is, For whatever reason, this has been the league. And I think it's because you have these personalities that drive teams.

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People feel really attached to them. Either they're defensive and passionate about them or they're mad at them. And that's just the ebb and flow in the league. I honestly think it's better than it's ever been with this stuff. You can find hate anywhere if you go online. Doesn't mean that people hate. LeBron has like 50 million Instagram followers.

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It is funny. So how many years ago was that? Like early 2010s range?

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I feel like people destroyed them back in the day. I thought that was a big narrative of his career. It's like, yeah, he's super fun, but he's Bird of Magic won titles and he didn't. My point is, this has been a narrative that we've heard forever. And if you don't win titles and you don't come through, In the NBA, you're going to take crap. But I also feel like that goes for the NFL, right?

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Cam was still in college. So it's like, I think it's 15 years ago that game. I remember between the first and second years when I was on the countdown show and I showed up for something during the summer and I had a beard and everybody was like, you're not going to have that on TV, right? Like they were freaked out by it. It does feel like the beard, the beard stuff has shifted.

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It goes for baseball with somebody like Clayton Kershaw. This is what we do with sports. If you don't win the title... We don't even do it.

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He said that, that was when I did that interview with him at the Sloan Conference. That's when he started talking about the unhappiness with the players. And that was 2018 range. So it's been a storyline for seven years. Yeah. It's like why aren't our players happier?

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Well, we have Otani and nobody's like, oh, Otani, face of the league. I don't know where the face of the league is. It's more personal.

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You got helmets on during game. I've said this forever. Basketball is the most naked sport. Whether you're at the game or you're watching TV, you feel like you have this connection with players. Yeah. That's just different than the other sports. It just is.

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Especially if you're going and you're watching them and you're watching them during timeouts, you're watching them interact in foul lines and during free throws. And I think the social media aspect of it where they can connect to fans immediately, they can see feedback immediately. Obviously, that's not awesome. But I think in some ways it's better for them too because...

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you know, in the old days you could just like, whatever. Like I think of back to the Peter Vesey, New York post pieces of the eighties. And he would just like, you know, he was just absolutely completely eviscerate people. He called Alonzo morning, the Oregon groaner. Right. Uh, it's, uh, it's just a little different now. Um, and you can mobilize people.

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And then COVID, it just was full bloom. COVID was kind of the apex mountain for beards. Everyone was just like, I don't care anymore. Yeah, that cranked it up.

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You can mobilize all your followers against somebody. There's, I, the, the face of the week thing. Yeah. What? That's another one.

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No, I think it goes together. I think, I think with the face of the week thing, we, we probably see it the same way. You don't talk about it. It's not like the people magazine sexiest man of the year issue where we just nominate somebody. Yeah. Is that who it was this year? You, uh, you kind of take it.

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And when you think about, when I was in the 80s loving basketball, I was never like, I wonder who the face of the league is right now. We didn't talk about it. We didn't talk about it in the 90s. Bird and Magic, because Magic won a title as a rookie and Bird won the title in his second year, the league just sort of shifted to them because they won. And then Bird had the three MVPs, two titles.

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Then Magic had three MVPs in four years. And he won two titles. And it was just obvious those were the guys. And then Jordan beat Magic in the 91 finals. And guess what? That made him the guy. And then Jordan went through all the 90s. And then it was like Shaq and Kobe together. I guess this is their league now. And then that fell apart. And in the mid-2000s, we're like, Duncan, Spurs, sure.

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Like, no... It wasn't like we're like Tim Duncan's now the face of the league. Because one of the cases you see with this face of the league stuff is like, oh, if Tatum wins three in a row, he's now the face of the league. I don't think it works that way. It kind of organically happens. Kobe had it at the end of the 2000s. Eventually it shifted to LeBron.

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And then it shifted to LeBron and Curry together. And that's... Just kind of what happened. We can't nominate Anthony Edwards. It's not like this would happen in tennis sometimes, especially in the eighties. It'd be like Boris Becker. See the face of tennis now. Cause he won Wimbledon once. It's like, it's not how it works. You kind of ease into it. Nobody would pick Agassi.

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And then it eventually became, Oh, it's Agassi and Sampras. What about it?

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I, he, it never took, it kept falling off him.

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Um, but the point with the face of the league now is like, yeah, it's still Stephen Curry. And then somebody is going to have to win a couple of titles and take it from him. But if Wendy comes in and wins two straight titles and he's the best part in the league, he's the face of the league. I just don't know what that means. We're solo. What does the face of the league mean?

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I think the two of them together are really in the last 10 years, uh, I do. I think it's the two of them together.

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So he's not going to try to win the finals? If he wins the title and he's the best player in the league, guess what? you get whatever this amorphous, made-up face of the league thing is because you become the guy.

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But there's a popularity piece that Jokic just doesn't have. He's just not going to have. That's why to me, it's Curry and LeBron are the meal tickets to the league. They're the guys who are going to be in the Saturday 830 game the most. They're the guys who are going to sell the most jerseys, have the most interest. And if they're on a good team, people are going to care the most.

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And it's those two.

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I mean, I would just have an opinion on his opinion. I don't think it's true, though. Because I think when you hit the point where you're kind of the guy in the league or one of the two guys, there's a lot of great stuff that comes with that. You know, you make the most money, you make the most money off the court. You probably have the best chance to win.

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You can convince the most people to come play with you on like a, you know, on a buyout contract. You can put the most pressure on your owners to do whatever you want them to do. You can make them trade everything they have for Anthony Davis. Like there's real benefits to it. I don't think it's like this heavy burden. I think for Ant, it's more a scrutiny thing that he's probably talking about.

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Like, hey, if you hit this level you're going to be picked apart in a way that's just a little different. But that's, I mean, that could be anybody, right? That could be Timothee Chalamet right now. That could be whoever is like, whoever you think is the biggest hip hop star right now. It doesn't, it just kind of comes to the territory if you're the best at anything you do.

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I don't, I don't know why that would be a burden. There's, there's good and bad to everything.

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You're not going to change your mind. There's a topic for us. There's nothing else we could say about the suns this year at this point.

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Right. Or how you treated all-star weekend, which was, you know, the first time the football season ends, the first time basketball is really in the limelight for real is all-star weekend and that everybody treats it like shit. And it's like, we're supposed to say thanks. Yeah. Like what's our, what's our role? Everyone went to all this.

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I've talked to a bunch of people to all star weekend and they were all like, it was fucking miserable. It sucked. It was awful. And the timing of it is so bad. For all the good players, like nothing, you don't care.

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But that's just life. I think everybody... I don't think that's a basketball situation. I think that's... What part isn't like that? I'm just saying like the internet breeds that. If you go to... Are you like that to your family? No, I'm saying you go and then Twitter applies. You go on a Reddit. I remember I was at a...

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I went to Goldsberry's class in Austin and they did all these studies on different things about how to follow basketball. And one of the, one of the things was about NBA Reddit, just the percentages of positive tweets versus negative tweets are not a post negative post comments versus positive about the league. And if I just told you they did that, what would your response be?

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What would you think it would be? It would probably like, what would the ratio be for you? Just guessing.

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No, it wasn't that bad. I prejudice you with my lead in, but it was like 35, 65 or 30, 70, something like that. But just people are more prone when they're on any sort of forum like that to be negative than positive. You just have to know that going in. I would argue that people at the games... are way nicer, way nicer. It's not even close.

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I would love for people to go in a time machine and go to like the fleet center in 1996, just get a feel for what those two hours were like with like an angry, you know, fan base that didn't like the product and just had the freedom to just yell at everybody. Like it's, now I look now, I think it's actually like a pretty nice experience. Like there'll be stories about, oh, there was a heckler

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who yelled at somebody, they kicked him out. It's like, fuck it, hey, like there was 30 of those. I remember going to a Golden State Sacramento game when I was visiting my buddies in San Francisco in like 98. And I had no idea that the Golden State fans hated Chris Webber so much. So it was 99, it was that first season. And they were just booing him, yelling him.

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It was like a two and a half hour Chris Webber roast. in the stands, anything he did, they're going nuts like that. Those days are over. We don't see Durant and OKC. That comeback game was probably the last time anything like that happened, right?

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Well, baseball, everyone's on their phone. So that's probably the safest place you can be an athlete. People aren't even looking up unless a foul ball's coming at them, which can't happen because there's a net.

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And what could you yell at the other players and stay in the park?

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We're not defending the past. It's just the way it was. I just think every era is a little bit different. Listen, if players feel a certain way, I'm certainly going to tell them not to feel that way. I do think a big piece of this is self-inflicted, though, by the league. The schedule's too long.

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If we had a 70-game season or a 60-game season, I don't have to watch these extra 20 games of the Suns, right? There's more urgency for the games. The load management stuff, which we've talked about ad nauseum, that made it hard for fans to connect with the league and players, right?

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Well, but I think it made it hard. It was something that got brought up. And I do think it mattered to fans that they bought a ticket and the guy wasn't there. That's a real thing.

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I would have a beard way more often, but mine just gets white and it actually, it used to hide some stuff, but now it's like you actually look younger when you don't have the beard. There's been some weird phases since, ever since I could shave. I think sideburns were a really weird stretch in that 92 to 94 stage inspired by Brandon and Dylan on 90210.

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Or, or like Philly before the start of the season, when there was pieces about here's their plan to win a championship. And it was like, Hey, a part of the plan is that a beat stock could play back to back soon. Right. But here's what they're trying to do. They're trying to be healthy. But Embiid's not going to play back-to-backs anymore. His name might be fucked up. I don't know.

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Or the Philly situation or all of it. I just feel like for us, like one of the reasons I think we connected and became friends and we like doing the pod together is we really love basketball. Like both of us will be watching these random games on stupid nights and we really give a shit about it. And... You can't just talk about all the stuff you like. You got to have a little balance both ways.

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But I think we celebrate the game as much as we criticize it. There's other shows and personalities that I think kind of dine in the, this gets me attention if I do this. I don't feel like we do that. I always feel like we're having a conversation about things we like and don't like about the league. I love watching Detroit right now. I could do 10 minutes on Ron Holland right now.

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I fucking love Ron Holland. Ron Holland's, I haven't even watched, I probably watched 15% of the Pistons games or pieces 20%. Ron Holland seems like he's ready to get into it with everybody on every team. He's like 19 years old. I really like watching them. I appreciate the Pistons. I'm excited to watch them play the Knicks in round one.

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And then all of a sudden people were doing different sideburns things for like a year and a half. That was weird. Um, there was also the high flat top look was in for a little bit. Like there's definitely been some weird stages looking back on what was going on there.

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I think if you lose that side of things, it becomes harder for me to take your criticisms seriously. You still have to fundamentally like what you're watching. I don't feel like some people out there do.

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I thought he was going to get fired this weekend. I really did. I thought there was going to be like a Don Nelson next thing. All right, let's take a quick break because I want to keep talking about this. So one last thing on the, uh, on whether people are too critical or not. I can't believe we spent this much time talking about, but I do think it's interesting. Um,

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it seems like the rise of the X player podcasts and voices has contributed to this whole, when everybody's like, we're, we spent too much time comparing the past to the present. And I think the social media piece of that too, where you see all these videos and these breakdowns of this guy against this guy.

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Um, I just really hope that people realize, and I like some of the X player stuff, how unreliable they are as narrative narrators. Um, Um, these are people that were playing the entire time. They might have opinions based on who they're against. It's not like they spend a ton of time thinking about different eras of the league and stars and comparing.

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So, and you'll just see stuff on the, on these shows or pods or on your, on your social feed where you're like, what are we doing? Like, like, I just feel like the discourse is, big picture about basketball as it relates to errors in the past is like the worst it's ever been. And I don't think that's helping with some of this stuff.

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That was just one example. Where I'm just like, just go back. Go read some of the books. Go read Phil Jackson's book about Kobe in 2005. You can't just pretend stuff didn't happen.

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What a terrible thing to do during a break at a show. Right, because then what happens?

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Yeah, you left. Right. Yeah.

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I was talking about the X players.

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Although there has been some good content lately. Did you see the Vernon Maxwell on All the Smoke talking about when Hakeem slapped him? That was one of the best three minutes I've spent all year.

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I love Barnes and Captain Jack because I think when they talk about basketball and the history and how it relates now, I actually believe in their opinions on it. I've had them on the pod and we were arguing about Kobe versus Duncan, who was the guy in... No, they both were Kobe. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. But they made compelling cases for it.

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And it's like, that's what's fun about basketball is arguing about different things. I have never, the first time I ever remember even thinking about who the face of the league was, was when MJ was retiring and we were kind of like, what do we do now? And then it was like, is it Grant Hill? It went on for years. Is it Iverson? But it was more like there was such a void.

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NFL has never really had to deal with it because they always have two or three quarterbacks who are just there ready to roll, right? Like Brady and Manning had it forever. And then Aaron Rodgers was just right there. And then he moves in. And then all of a sudden Mahomes showed up and he's there. And Joe Burrow. And they always have two or three dudes. Josh Allen's in there now. Lamar.

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Um, maybe a couple other guys will pop in over the next couple of years, but they always have the four to five, the NBA, there will be stretches. We felt it in the mid two thousands. It was like, what do we do? Kobe's on shitty teams. We thought it was going to be him. Shaq's getting old. Duncan's not clicking with people, you know, um, is it Dwayne Wade? Oh, Dwayne Wade. Oh, six finals.

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Maybe it's Dwayne Wade. And it was just a lot of that for, um, Basically all the way through until we ended up with LeBron and Kobe as kind of the guys. But I just think it's way more organic than us deciding. Ant can be the face of the league if he kicks everybody's ass and wins the title and is clearly the best guy in the league. That's how it happens. There's no other scenario. Right?

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And then he's selling shoes and people talk about him and people like my mom know who he is. Those are all the checkpoints you have to hit.

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you know, when you see it, that's probably not going to work as like the lead guy. And I think Grant Hill was a good example. Grant Hill was awesome, but I never felt like he was, there was like a sense of like, almost like danger missing with him. Right. And then Duncan was the same thing. Duncan was the best guy. I still have Duncan like sixth or seventh all, I think I am seventh all time.

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Take an NBA player prop, combine it with a bet on that player's team to win. And starting this week, We will have a ringer PBT on a player performance bet placed on one of the Tuesday games. Rockets, Pacers, Warriors, Knicks, Bucks, Hawks, Nets, Spurs, Clippers, Suns. I'm going to tweet out my pick on Tuesday. Stay tuned.

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I feel like that was baseball related because baseball really had that big comeback in the late 90s, early 2000s. Steroids driven, Yankees driven, Yankees versus Red Sox, Bonds and the home run McGuire. And then the relievers and the home run sluggers all started having weird facial thing and it just took off. Remember Duncan tried it?

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Um, and I still think he was the best guy of the two thousands. And yet there was never a moment where people were like, Duncan, like they ignored a lot of the stuff that he did. They focused on the wrong things and he just didn't care, right? And I think Tatum is a little bit like that now where Tatum's never gonna be the best guy in the league, I don't think.

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But he could be the most successful guy of this decade, right? He could be the guy when we leave the 2020s, the guy that was the best guy in the most title teams, but he doesn't have that sense of, That whiff of something, that same thing with Duncan and Grant Hill, where it's just like you have to pull on everybody and there's something about Tatum that seems like it doesn't click with people.

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I don't know what it is.

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But was really polarizing when he was playing. I think people like you and I were probably in the minority of, like, I fucking love Iverson. I love how hard he plays. But there's other people that... You know, we're like, eh.

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But as far as like, but is that everything though? It's not just the NBA. I feel like that every aspect of life is like that now.

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Well, the whole concept of celebrity and how fast people can get it and then how fast they can lose it. I feel like that process has definitely been sped up. I say it with like my daughter when I'm always, I'm always asking her like, what are you watching? Who do you care about? What's your favorite podcast? What's your favorite video podcast? And it always seems to change.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4439.416

Every, I think it was the canceled podcast, but I think now they had some shit. What's interesting is it's like the same cycle over and over again where she really likes somebody and then be like, why don't you listen to that podcast anymore? Oh, they had a meltdown. Oh, one of the co-hosts got canceled. Oh, they ended up turning on each other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

444.234

Duncan had a year in the early 2000s when Duncan went with like the shaved head. Got a little like your look right now, but it was like, what are you doing? You're Tim Duncan. Why are you trying this? What are you trying to look like? He almost looked like Dennis Haysburg.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4459.046

And it's just like the internet just like hyper charges all of these kind of rises and falls with all of these different social media characters. It's hard to keep up with. Basketball, you have the same rise and fall stuff, but the guys are making $50 million a year. That's like Kevin Durant's on the top of the world in 2018. And then he's down and then he's up and then he's down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4479.845

Then he goes to Phoenix. It's going to be great. Now he's down. Oh my God, they're trading him. Now he's going to, maybe he gets traded to San Antonio in July. It's like, oh, Kevin Durant can teach Wimbinyama how to win. And it's just like a fucking rollercoaster. And maybe that's what LeBron was talking about. That the scrutiny and the rollercoaster ride of all this is really hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4499.444

And if you're the face, I'm sure it's a bigger rollercoaster.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4507.859

Well, that's where it gets, that's where it's hard to take it seriously where it's like, so you didn't want this the whole time when you're doing Nike ads in 2003 and you did a special to change teams. And so you, you didn't want, you weren't excited for this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4527.055

He definitely has such a big platform now. When he talks about stuff candidly, it really does have reactions that last two to three days sometimes. He does make people think. Um, I think that, you know, the mind, the game pod about some of the dialogue about that, about we had to do this pod to save basketball discourse. I take stuff like that probably a little bit personally.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4548.432

Cause it's, he's basically, I don't know. We spent like going back to Graylin and the ringer. We've, we've tried to elevate discussion on pods and writing and all this stuff. And, uh, I think a lot of people have. So when somebody is saying nothing's elevated, you're kind of like, well, I mean, we're trying, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4602.625

Remember we did that one podcast right after they changed the CBA and both of us were so freaked out and we were doing, it was like, we were like trying to take a boat and cross the Pacific ocean. We were like, but then there's this other, we were like so nervous. We didn't understand it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4751.522

Yeah, so I don't know if we have the answer. My point is I think the NBA has always had more than a twinge of negativity to it. And I think it has to do with the personalities and the experience of going to games and having those guys right in front of you and the fact that there's a connection that's just different. Baseball used to have it. I think the net has really hurt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4773.569

I know why they have it. I get all the reasons. But the net is just tough. You think the net has ruined baseball? I'm not saying it's ruined baseball. I think it's tough. I think it's tough. I don't even notice it. Really? Yeah. Oh, man. I used to love the energy of like, this might be the pitch where a foul ball comes over here. Oh, you like being on your toes. Loved it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4799.594

Nobody's on their toes anymore in baseball. Middle linebacker. People are just crossing the highway, not worried about getting hit by a car when they go to a baseball game. Now you just be on your phone for 20 minutes. You feel the energy around it. It's definitely different. Let's take one more break and then we got to talk about the Celtics weekend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4819.355

So I'm going to give you biggest red flags for every contender. Just quickly, you tell me if you agree. I didn't prep you for this. Cleveland, lack of playoff experience. I would go, which just jumps to your head immediately. That's the only thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4836.365

Save that because I want to come back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4838.888

Boston, hunger, health, and mileage would be my three. Just the mileage on the guys from the 100-game season last year. The fact that they won last year. A team like Cleveland is just going to be a whiff hungrier. And the health of Porzingis and Drew, I think, would be the three things that worried me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4865.12

Yeah. Where... Everything's happening 40 feet from the basket. Oh, we got this. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4914.107

I like the term hunt happy. Congratulations on that. Here's... I agree with you, by the way. I wish they would just run plays every once in a while to mix it up. Just every once in a while, just put Tatum at the foul line and give him a Dirk Nowitzki post-up just so it's not the same thing over and over again where we're just hunting guys, hunting guys, hunting guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4932.581

Because I do think the defenses can get in the rhythm of knowing it's coming and figuring out tricks. Denver, and we'll talk about that game in a second, but they just have no room for error at all. If they're not making threes, it gets tough. If anyone, if Gordon's out or Murray's hurt or even Brown's hurt, it gets super tough for them. If Westbrook just sucks, it's almost like they can't

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

4962.481

They can't fight it. And it's just, I think they could win three straight rounds. I think they could go four and three and three straight playoffs series or four and two, but it's not going to be a team that's like ripping through the playoffs. There's just too many ways. It seems like it go wrong. Game to game would be my red flag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

500.843

He went he went blonde for a bit. I've never died or done anything. I just can't do it. I'm just like, if nature is taking me a certain direction, so be it. It's the way it's going to have to go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5110.717

I have them fourth as well, but I also feel the Jokic piece... When we get to a playoff where they just are playing the same team for two straight weeks. I think that's good for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5124.792

I know. Well, the thing that's alarming, the open threes today, how many just wide open threes they took compared to, did they even shoot 40%?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5137.258

Yeah, that's what would scare me if I'm them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

516.056

Yeah, the celebrity game really shook you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5166.782

And if I'm Denver, I feel great. It was a one possession game. I didn't have Gordon, who's my third most important guy. And I still, if I'm Denver, and I know I can be in crunch time in the playoffs with Jokic and Porter and Gordon and Murray and Brown, I still feel really good about where I'm at. If I could just get into fourth quarters with those five guys, not get crushed on those Jokic minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5190.394

But, you know, even like somebody like Torrey Craig feels like they could have helped them. I kind of like the Celtics sneaking out the Torrey Craig move. Denver doesn't have enough guys I trust. OKC, red flag, just the second score, lack of experience thing. Just ultimately, if they're down four on the road in a really big playoff game and... A team is just swarming Shea and double teaming him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5216.963

Who's stepping up? I just want to see it. I'm not down on it, but we just haven't seen it. It's very similar to the Celtics last year. I just want to see what happens with that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5258.428

Do you want to do favorite bench guys right now? Want to do a team? Because my favorite bench guy is Ty Jerome, just hands down. Ty Jerome comes in and the score changes immediately. He does nine things. I love Ty Jerome. I genuinely think he's going to make $60 million this summer. I'm predicting that now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5281.082

Oh, nice. Joining on Thursday. Great. I'm a huge fan. I love when he comes in. He it's exactly, he's like the most pure bench guy in the league comes in. It's going to play as eight, nine minutes, however long it is. He's going to affect the game. He's going to make a shot. He's going to have energy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5297.972

Um, and in that Friday night South, the game, I was like, fuck, I, I hope they don't close with Ty Jerome. Cause Ty Jerome is a problem. Um, by the way, Wiggins is up there for me as a favorite bench guy too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5412.465

Yeah. Ty Jerome, Wiggins. I'm trying to think who else are my favorites. I still enjoy Quentin Grimes. I wish he was on a good team. A bunch of the Detroit guys. They play a million dudes. They're playing 11 guys. Detroit brings their guys in and they're all playing really hard and they're ready to rough people up and get in fights. Red flag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5441.027

Lakers is easy rim protection and defending at the other team's point guard. If it's somebody who can get to the rim, I think it's going to be a problem for them that they could figure it out. And then Golden State turnovers and ball handling. They still have the dumbest turnovers. Doesn't matter who's on the team. They're just going to have dumb turnovers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5458.214

They're going to have really bad turnovers and crunch time. I think it's aging Steve Kerr and like dog years watching. I think it drives him nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5468.678

It's the fatal flaw for Steph.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5474.942

And then the last red flag, Memphis. I know you want to do some Memphis stuff really quick, and then we'll circle back to the Friday-Sunday Celts games if there's anything left. But the jaw not being able to make outside shots doesn't seem like it, and how everything is so dependent on him just getting to the rim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5491.014

I just feel like it's going to be easy to stop in a playoff series, and it, for me, lowers their ceiling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5589.001

You 10 out of 10, your luck factor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5596.585

This happened to Boston last year, though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5599.732

There's just this weird... When you say around the league, there's a feeling like there's not a total respect. This was the Boston situation last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5614.168

Does it ever happen? This circles back to the Cleveland piece a bit because I think Cleveland... is fucking terrifying. I've said this to you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5627.523

I want to see who's healthy on the Boston side. Okay, look, let's just... If you said go to the head right now, what do I think is going to happen? I think it's going to be really hard to win a game seven in Cleveland. I think Mitchell... could not be less afraid of the Boston Celtics. And he's been this way for most of the decade. He loves playing them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5647.051

They have two awesome guards, one who didn't play Friday, and they have length with swings, and they can't stop him. And if it gets to a situation where there's a couple big playoff games in a series, he's going to think he can beat whoever the best Boston guy is. And he did it on Friday night. He was the best guy on the floor in the second half. Um, they have length. Mobley's better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5668.144

Mobley was awesome in that fourth quarter on Friday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5674.113

Yeah. Well, but there was no Porzingis, no Drew. So it's hard to overreact one way or the other. But the Mitchell piece and their bench, which is real. Hunter, who has always done pretty well against the Celts, who has size, who can at least make guys think and they don't have to play a Coro. I think Cleveland's really good. And you know what my other reason is? They only have 10 losses.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

569.212

Oh, that little, he was smaller, right? Josh somebody?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5694.385

It's March 2nd. Cleveland's good. They should be the favorite. And Boston is the favorite on Fandle. They're minus 150. Cleveland's plus 270. I think Boston could beat Cleveland.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5712.962

I think they could, right. No, but Boston was the prohibitive favorites, and the odds have not caught up to Cleveland yet. They're plus 270, and they're going to have home court advantage twice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5722.566

in uh any boston series that's a real thing um right go ahead well i like the way they match up against okc too there's some garland stuff with them that boston they really went after it in the friday game where they're like we're just gonna attack them we're gonna bully him we're gonna use our wings and um and their refs were awful my dad was the most upset about the refs that he's been in two years coming home um could not believe tatum had five free throws

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5749.045

Look, you can excuse that game any way you want. That was an awesome win for Cleveland. To fall down like they did, to have Tatum do the get the fuck out of here thing, and then for them to come back, and them knowing that Mitchell might be the best guy in the series if you're just talking about who can score in a fourth quarter on both sides.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5766.7

So if I'm Cleveland, I'm delighted by how the season's going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5781.394

He's getting all the shots he wants. He gets the threes he wants. He gets the matchups he wants. He gets the runners he wants. He can get to the rim. And this will be like, you did that drew holiday extension, right? You did it to make him feel good about last season, heading into the playoffs, but ultimately you're trying to go back to back. And that's a lot of money for a guy who's 34.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

580.892

So were you the guy who tried to Josh Hutchinson? Were you the guy who tried too hard in the celebrity game? Cause in my game, it was the actor, Jesse Williams, who just was going all out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5800.629

Who's got now like a fucked up finger, but this is, that's going to be the series for drew holiday, that Mitchell series, what he can do against Mitchell will be the entire contract. Because I don't think anyone else, White doesn't seem like he can get a handle on him. And they're just putting everybody else in switches and it's going to have to be Holiday, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5843.169

It's mid 2000s Wade with three point range is what he reminds me of because he can get he can get to the basket. He can get in the paint, but he also has this three point shot that Wade never had. And he's just so athletic. And it's just who is the right guy to guard him when he's feeling it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5924.641

But that was one of the best Tatum games he's ever had. He was like he was just the matchups and spots he was picking. I thought he was incredible in that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5970.977

I agree with you. I couldn't believe the odds. I couldn't believe they were plus 270 with home court. I was stunned. The thing you mentioned... Down 25-3 and then you win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5982.919

I'm glad you mentioned that Allen not playing in crunch time because I actually thought there was a chance they were going to bench Garland in crunch time and play Ty Jerome because he was so good in that game. They have different lineups they can do, right? They can go a little smaller. They go a little bigger. They can go big in their backcourt.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

5996.948

If they feel like Garland is too much of a defensive liability and Mitchell's feeling it, they can just yank him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

60.954

Be sure to claim the ringer PBT in the carousel on the FanDuel Sportsbook page. app. Last thing to plug before we get to the podcast, Celtic City, the documentary series we did about the Boston Celtics. It's nine episodes over nine weeks. It is on Max and HBO. It premieres Monday night. Get ready for it. Once a week. It's old school. You can watch an episode. You can think about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6029.372

one threat I was on was convinced that Joe Maz didn't play Torrey Craig in that fourth quarter and did all that Hauser stuff because he didn't care about the game because they're the two seed anyway. He wanted Cleveland because Joe Maz is, you know, he looks at things completely different than everybody else, but he's like, I don't really care about this game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6045.459

I'm going to try this and see if it works. If it doesn't work, I just won't do it if we're actually in a playoff series. The Porzingis piece, I think, is still going to be a genuine problem for the Cavs if he's healthy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6057.679

That's the matchup because the other thing is he allows, when Mitchell's going to the basket, now there's somebody coming over with their hand up who's just a little bit of a different person to contend with.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6081.854

If we're doing percentages and it's, we're going to a hundred percent, a hundred percent percentages, Boston, Cleveland, that's it. I would say it's like, you love when I do this. I would say it's like, I'm writing it down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6094.197

I would say it's 55, 45 Cleveland in my mind. I think there's more outcomes when Cleveland beats Boston than vice versa. And I think that Game 7 in Cleveland really matters. And everyone always discounts this shit. And we've had some upsets. We had Minnesota go into Denver and beat them in a Game 7. I know there's games where that happens. But Mitchell, this might be like a Mitchell year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6116.207

I wouldn't rule it out. And it's also, he's an interesting MVP guy now because... It's obviously Shane Joker as the top two. And I think Tatum's third. But if Cleveland ends up like 67 and 15 with all the stuff, you almost have to have a cab in the top. It'd be weird for them not to have someone in the top three. And it's clearly Mitchell. But amazing year by him. Kudos to him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6141.429

I was a little iffy on him last year with... some of the decision making. This year, I'm not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6215.368

You think about, you think about that Friday game and again, no Drew, no KP, but Tatum had 46, 16 and nine in the Celtics lost at home. That's a little alarming. Tatum had, I think, the best all-around regular season game I've ever seen him have. And especially the rebounds with him, which just every game now it feels like he's going to get to 10-plus rebounds and 7-plus assists.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6241.801

His decision-making was amazing, and the Celtics still lost. So if I'm Cleveland, I feel great about that. All right. I think we agree on that. And I would still have OKC. I guess the last piece we didn't talk about and we probably should really quick is just maybe there's not a lot to talk about that the Lakers... I just think both of us are taking them seriously as a real playoff team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6263.857

Just because... It's two weeks. You just have to go four and three to get to the next round. Is that a team that can go four and three every two weeks? I think it is. So I'm taking them seriously. I still feel like Denver is above them. And I like your idea of Denver being in the slight layer under the top three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6282.333

I would still have them fourth, whether you're going to like under tier it or however. And then Lakers, Golden State is the next two. I just think is how I'd have it. I wouldn't have the Knicks with those two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6302.279

If Mitchell's there in round one, then I'm going to reconsider, but I just don't trust it. Do you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6318.464

How focused are you on Pistons-Knicks? Because I'm like a 10 out of 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6348.093

He was out there in crunch time on Friday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

644.75

That would be a good NBA award at the end of the year that we should vote on the joy is back award. Where we have to vote whose joy was the most back. Who's the joy of back winner this year? Next year, like the odds on Fandles posting 26 odds and like KD is a minus 300 favorite for the joy is back. He hasn't been traded yet. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6452.23

I think it's so hard to draft in football. It just seems like it's a fucking crapshoot. Can you imagine having a top four pick right now trying to decide whether you're going to get fired if Cam Ward doesn't work out for you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6467.039

I just think it's harder. I'm not willing to get in an hour debate about it. I just think there's more players, there's more positions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6517.987

Belichick took the kill Harry over DK Metcalf and AJ Brown.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6530.436

Belichick traded out of the Trent McDuffie pick and passed up on George Karlaftis to take Cole Strange. I just think the draft is like, it almost like breaks their brains how stupid some of this shit is. NBA is more simple. It's like you're going, like your ED point. Do we want to take a guy who has a chance to be potentially like an awesome guy someday?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6550.607

Or do we just take 12 and nine from Zach Eady for the next five years? Memphis was like, that sounds great. We'll do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6582.441

But we both like Dini. We both thought he was a rotation guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6590.275

That I did not see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6611.643

Well, it's a weird thing with Ja because all Ja does is go to the basket. So then you have Zach Eaddy just kind of wandering around. Not great. Can't really post up Zach Eaddy and have Ja Morant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6628.366

It's two hours into the pod. I'm groggy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6688.399

Team debate? I don't know. The more drafts I watch, sometimes it seems easier than ever. Zach Eady clearly was going to be a rotation guy. I couldn't believe there was even a dialogue about it. He's 7'5", and he has good hands. You're going to get four good years out of him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6711.966

No, I don't. I don't like Memphis or Houston. I just think it's too early for both of them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

677.549

I don't know who our Joy's back guy is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6799.309

They're like a regular season team that I just have less faith in the playoffs about because of, I don't know. I just think teams are going to have better options in crunch time when we get to April, May. And they're trading baskets in the fourth quarters. I just, I don't think their defense is as good as I thought it was going to be. The team's put up big point numbers on them. You notice that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

682.253

I think for next year, it's probably off the board. Maybe it's Kyrie. Maybe Kyrie because the trade was so late last year or the turnaround was so late last year. Maybe he's grandfathered in and he's the favorite this year. I don't know. He would have won it last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6823.442

They're way more run and gun than I think I was expecting from them this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6830.069

No, I know, but they'll have these games where they're like 126 to 125, shit like that. That Knicks game was a wild game. That was not a defensive game. Um, yeah. So I got, I have the same six that I had before. Um, and next, Hey, Robinson looks awesome for them. Maybe we could reevaluate that in a month. Do you want to do a quick deep dive before we go? I do. What do you want?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6855.966

Um, you go, we can, we can do it fast. We'll do it in like three minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6863.789

Okay. Any, any new news with the pyramids?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Talking Basketball, NBA, and Hoops With Ryen Russillo

6924.217

Did they ever master the pyramids? Was there ever a moment where like with baseball where they they just figured out guys got to get on base and that's get on base any way you can.

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Yeah, that's my question.

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Um... I really, Ben and I watched Shane Gillis on SNL last night and had a great time and laughed a lot. And I started thinking about how I think he could have been the biggest star on the show in the last 10 years. And that set me down a long deep dive of how he didn't end up on the show. And I was watching different clips. Here we go. And there was, well, we'll leave that aside.

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But there's all this different videos and stuff. And one of them was this like two minute video of Louis C.K., just blistering Shane Gillis, like half fun, but half whatever, because he was so mad that he was doing an ad, but also about to throw the podcast to a Patreon. And he was like, how much money do you need to make from this podcast? Do you really need the money that bad?

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And Shane Gillis was like, I actually do. But I was just down this whole Shane Gillis rabbit hole thinking about how interesting it would have been if he had just become like Will Ferrell on SNL. And I don't think I was alone with that last night because I thought some of the stuff last night was great. The monologue was as awkward as it's ever been.

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Like a back to back Donovan Mitchell, who I don't think was completely miserable last year, but I do think has, has like an added level of joy this year. And I think he would be somebody I would at least accept the thing. Uh, Paul George probably would be last in the voting. He'd be the, the joy is not back. If that was an award.

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It's just such a bizarre fit of performer and audience, like whoever's in that crowd where they're just... The band behind them, which a lot of people were pointing out, the band's like... Can we laugh at that one? Can we do that? But his sketches and the couple of beers thing was fucking great.

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I thought they really felt like they were pushing the envelope a little bit in a way that reminded me of some of the best eras of the show. And it was just like, man, this would have been so interesting if there's this alternate universe where he's just on the shit, like nothing happens. He never says the dumb shit and it never comes back to haunt him. And he's just on the show.

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Just kind of doing that same ride that like Will Ferrell did and Phil Hartman, some of these other guys, like what would have been the destiny of that? Anyway, I was deep diving that for an hour last night because I couldn't sleep.

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And even though it's like that stop start thing he does, if you're not used to it, you're kind of like, what's he doing?

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Yeah, no, it's Jimmy Butler. Oh, perfect.

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I think, I think it was bad for him.

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Yeah, I do. I think it set him back a couple of years. Um, but, uh, and, but ultimately became part of his story and he got over it. But, um, you know, I don't think it was, I don't think it was good for him. That, that thing that really helped him was putting that comedy special on YouTube. And it was just great. The one, I think he did it in Austin, whatever.

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That was the one when Ben was like, who's this guy? And we were just, we'd watch it over and over again. And we thought it was just so fucking funny. Like the Trump stuff, everything.

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Jimmy Butler's like he had five points the other night when Steph had 56 and they interviewed him in the locker room and he was like just delighted. He was saying, I'm just so pleased to be here for this.

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Well, and that's also, that was the bones of SNL. And it was a lot of the SNL 50 stuff. Um, when they're going back through the old cast and you think like that seventies cast, especially part of what made, made that great was they just didn't give a shit. They tried everything.

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I think it would have been like five years. And I think he probably would have done stand-up stuff. And then I don't know what the next thing is. But I think he'd be... I think it would have been really good for him. And I also think the show needed somebody like him, which was, I think the reason Lauren, the new Lauren book that came out has a little piece on it.

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Like he wanted a different type of cast member than they had. And somebody that did a lot of stuff Shane did. So I think it would have been really good for him. I also think he would have played Trump, which would have been huge for him because he's really good at it. And you've seen him do it a bunch of times anyway. Yeah. Good deep dive. Anything you got to plug before we go?

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Oh, congrats. Good luck with the facial hair. I will see you in a week. We'll see what's changed in the world of basketball. Good to see you. Thanks to Saruti and Kyle Gahow as well. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And you can watch it as a video on Spotify as well. I will see you. New rewatchables coming Monday night. We did an Oscar winner, Rosillo.

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I'll text you about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, we're taping this for the Oscar. I was really hoping Mikey Madison would win Best Actress because I thought that was the best performance I saw this year. But it doesn't seem like, as we're taping this, it doesn't seem like she's going to win.

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I thought she was awesome. Best pick. I think Onora is going to win. And by default was part, but I didn't see the brutalists. So I'm not going to pretend I wasn't worse. I just still didn't see it. I will at some point. I just didn't see it. And I didn't do the thing where it's like, I got to see every movie before, you know, I just didn't get to it yet. I'll say that at some point.

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Come on with both of us.

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It's going to happen.

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Russillo, see you next Sunday.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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It's like, oh, there's Jimmy Butler's teeth. They're back. Uh, giving these perfect long monologue answers. And if, if I was on the heat, I'd be so pissed. Like, oh my God, really? Was that happy? Yeah. You're this happy. Steph is like this much of a joy to be with. Apparently is.

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It seems that, I mean, that's another one is Steph is our joy MVP of just like, he just parcels out joy to other people. He's able to like transfer it to them.

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Then the next week, another one comes on. It's almost like how they have with White Lotus. That's Celtic City. So please check that out. We spent a lot of time on it. Really proud of it. So Celtic City. Monday, March 3rd. Get ready. All right, coming up. Got a lot of weird basketball topics to talk about with Rosillo. Some big picture stuff, some alpha dog stuff in the league between the teams.

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was somewhere between a third and nine and a third and 13. And the guys kind of covered and you throw it anyway. But the odds of Jimmy Butler just going to Golden State and being good immediately were pretty high. And then the odds of him enjoying playing with Steph, that seemed pretty high. And then just watching the weight of the world be immediately lifted off steps.

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This would have been a more fun segment if they hadn't gotten crushed by Philadelphia last night. Yeah, but he didn't play. I did not watch. Quentin Grimes went nuts. Butler didn't play. Can you believe Dallas traded Quentin Grimes? Whoa, how about, can you believe Philly traded for Quentin Grimes when it was clear that they were supposed to be headed toward a tank thing?

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I'm intentionally not, this is not an over-prepared bod because I wanted to do more back and forth stuff and not have like set segments. You nailed it so far because I didn't know we were doing any of this. There's definitely a couple big picture stuff I want to hit, but the Philly thing, which I was going to mention later, but we should talk about now because we had,

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Embiid, there was a report yesterday. Embiid went to the owner. It felt like this week was about Philly trying to subtly pin stuff on Daryl Morey, the GM. That would, you know, like that was something I saw on a show. Well, Daryl Morey was the one pushing for the Embiid extension. Right. Because if we're going to go down that road.

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Yeah. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. We have to hit this quickly because this is absurd and I'm not going to allow it. Ultimately, one guy owns a basketball team. And when it's that amount of money and it's that big of a decision, that guy's making the call. He's not deferring to the GM. He's not going, I don't want to do this. And that's a lot of money. But Daryl says we should.

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So I'm just going to do it. It's not happening. That's not how the league works. Like the reason Kaminga is still on the Warriors is because Joe Lacob didn't want to trade Kaminga. There's no other reason. Joe Lacob likes Kaminga. He wants, he doesn't want to give up on him. And that's why he wasn't part of any of those trades. The owners control the show and they're going to decide what happens.

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Coming up, more NBA. That's right. You're not going to bully me away from talking to NBA. I'm going to do it on this podcast next. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets.

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Yeah, there's long memories with the voting. I think that's a really good point about Kyrie. I've actually, like Kyrie was one of my least favorite basketball players. I really appreciated the way he's turned his career around the last couple years. You got to hand it to him. I thought he acted like a pro last year. I thought he showed up and that's all we ever wanted from him.

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But he also wasn't showing. When you're not playing basketball, when you're acting erratically and giving weird press conferences.

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I 80% agree, but even Kyrie last year was like, yeah, I acted like a jerk. There's some things I would take back.

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We have a 30 on 30 profit boost token. On Fridays, where you can boost any 30-plus point score or 30-on-30 special bet on this Friday's slate on FanDuel. You know why this is good for this week? Because we have the all-star snubs. We have people playing who didn't make the All-Star team, who then try to take it out on whoever their next game is.

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What you just said about Kyrie and the teammates made me think of Westbrook and how Westbrook's teammates always loved him. Lakers accepted. I don't know, you know, although I do think a lot of the Lakers had him, but obviously it didn't work out well at all.

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But the teammates always swore by Westbrook, even when there was stuff about, you know, him stat padding, him trying to grab all the free throw rebounds, all that stuff. And all his teammates loved him.

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Did you play like with anybody like that? Where it's just like a beloved teammate guy?

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Like a star that you played with who was like just everybody was all in and loved him.

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So the worst teammate you've ever had is Justin?

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Yeah. For the East snubs. if you want to call them snubs. They took four guards, three forwards, really no center. And the one that jumped out to me was Maxie, but I also wouldn't have put them ahead of Garland, Dame, Hero, or Cade. So I was actually fine with the entire East team. The 12 guys they landed on, I thought were the 12 all-stars. Do you have a...

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I 100% do not. And I got to say, I was a little surprised he made it, but I also understand why they made it because of the, the, whatever the winning attitude was with how the selections happened this year. I think they wanted two cells.

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I think if you weren't watching game to game and just looking at the stats and you know, the fact that he's been durable, I think, I think people like us that have watched a lot of the games, like, man, he hasn't played that well for a month.

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Like Philadelphia playing Dever, Tyrese Maxey, ideal candidate. Toronto versus Chicago, Zach Levine, he didn't make it. He's probably mad about it. Just try to match... the anger and the resentment of the snub with the game and you're good. Uh, be sure to claim the PBT and place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel sports book app.

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Well, the bigger thing is there was no guy that, oh, my God. Like, I think if Jalen Johnson had been healthy the whole year and was healthy now, I think he would have had a real chance.

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I felt like Mobley had to make it. But to me, Mobley and Jaron Jackson were non-starters. They had to be on the team for the two-way stuff they're doing on really good teams.

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Especially at crunch time. Which I think was the thing with Jimmy. If you watch Miami... Basically, everything last three minutes was revolving around here. And I don't know if Jimmy was a giant fan of it.

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I don't know. That's the big... I mean, that goes to the... You guys have talked about this a bunch, but the post-Olympics... What happened to some of these guys? Why did it take so much out of them? Bam's the weirdest one because his offense just went sideways. We had to take a break. And then I want to talk about the Butler trades and the Fox trades and what we think is going to happen.

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We either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game to have both teams to score 30 plus points in the first quarter. I talked to Fando about this. I thought we needed some sort of gimmick, and it's been super fun. And for this week, coming off the All-Star game, you got to go with the snubs. You got to go with Tyrese Maxey.

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You got to go with Zach Levine. Anybody who even has like a mild case they might have made the All-Star game and didn't make it, they always get revenge the next game. So ride with those picks. Make your own. Look for 30 on 30 in the Fando Sportsbook app or head to Fando.com. for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday. Don't miss your chance to find out how much 30 can be worth.

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Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2.

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You know what else you can look for? We did that trade by a calm, uh, podcast with Priscilla on Tuesday where we hashed out the final list. I got his help. I finally settled on a top 85. And then we ran it on theringer.com today, and I wrote an intro for it. The fingers actually kind of worked. It was like 1,200 words, but that's like 20,000 words for me. I mean, I can barely type.

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Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline is here, by the way.

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Just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team That starts with better insights from LinkedIn. With unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common, LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions.

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who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props. You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers.

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And who knows, one of them could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

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So we talked about Jimmy Butler before, and it seems like Golden State, we're taping this, it's 6 o'clock Pacific time right now, Thursday. Seems like Golden State's going to be the team if there's a move, unless there's some surprise out of nowhere team.

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And I was looking at possible trades, and I think Wiggins has to be in it because there's got to be some sort of fat salary, and it's either Wiggins or Draymond. I just don't think they're going to trade Draymond. He just... I just think that's Steph's guy. That's just like he's over here. You can't touch him. But it would have to be Wiggins.

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I think it has to be Schroeder because he's an expiring. And then there's a Kaminga piece to it where Kaminga, if Golden State doesn't want to pay him, and it could potentially be Wiggins, Kaminga, and Schroeder. And maybe like whatever else, little small thing needs to come in. So there's two separate questions here. Is that a lot to give up for a guy who's been unhappy for a year?

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And then also, if you're Miami... you might actually be pretty good down the stretch if you turn a guy who's not really playing at all into Wiggins, who's looked really good the last couple weeks and most of the season. Kaminga coming off the bench and then Schroeder at point guard?

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But would you pay him? Cause he's, you're going to have to pay him next summer.

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But anyway, I wrote an intro. I had fun. And then we laid out the whole list. It's got stats. It's got the money, all that stuff. So very excited about that. You can go read me on theringer.com. Yeah, you can read me. Remember those days? Coming up, Justin Termini and Eddie Johnson, who I call into their show all the time on Sirius, and they owed me one. So they are coming on.

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They don't. Cur is the only real trade asset they have. I don't know what the other move is. They almost got marketing, they almost got Paul George, and they're probably thanking their lucky stars neither of those trades happened because they would have given up everything.

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Yeah, but the problem is, in 2022 when they did it, the league was completely different. I just don't think the league was nearly as good. There was some injury luck with some teams that went sideways, and they kind of snuck in. They rode Curry, who I think was at a slightly different point in his career, too, in 22 versus now.

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I think that 22 team would not be able to do that in 25 with how deep the league is and how good it is. I agree. I... I'm torn on it because, Justin, you remember in the early 90s with the Celts, when we had the big three and the question was always, how long do we keep these guys? Well, we can't trade. We got to keep these guys together. They won titles for us.

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And the Celts were able to rebuild on the fly a little bit with Reggie Lewis, who was a godsend. Brian Shaw, Dee Brown, they had Ed Pinckney. And they had this cool young old thing and it... It was pretty good. Like they weren't going to win the title, but they were in the mix. Like they, you know, they had two really good seasons and then Bird and McHale's health just couldn't hold up.

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I don't even think the Warriors are close to that level, you know? So if I'm them, it's either a question of, do we owe this to Curry? Because we're never trading him. So if you feel that way, then you got to do the Butler deal and give up whatever and try to hope that you catch lightning in a bottle with him. Or you got to think about trading Curry. And I just don't think they're going to do it.

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No, I had Devin Booker in the top 20. He was not. You saw the wrong thing. See, this is, you get fooled by social media.

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You said he was behind him.

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Muscle nose. I had him number 16. I did have him behind Jalen Williams and Cade Cunningham. I did have him behind Evan Mobley and Jaron Jackson. I think that's fair.

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Well, Jalen Williams on a rookie contract. Like, would you rather pay Jalen Williams $9 million a year?

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No, it's about talent. It's about time of their career. It's about the salary. It's all those things. It's basically, you're telling me Phoenix wouldn't rather have Jalen Williams on a rookie contract the Devin Booker for 50 million a year.

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We're going to talk basketball, and it's next. First, our friends from Pro Gym. All right, we're taping this late Thursday afternoon. I go on their show all the time. All the time. And they owed me, so they're coming on. Eddie Johnson, just determined. You can hear them on Sirius NBA every afternoon.

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Wait, I'm going to state really quick. Let's say Butler goes back there. Let's say they, let's say they get a 50 cents, 40 cents of the dollar. Let's say she's Wiggins, Looney and Schroeder and some protected pick. And that's a trade. Miami is like, please take them, give them away. And Butler flips the switch. Like he's done a couple of times this year to show everybody still has it.

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does that team intrigue you at all?

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Yeah, I look at it like ceilings, like your regular season ceiling versus your playoff ceiling. So I see a team like Houston, and I'm really impressed by them. Like a young team, kind of a weird collection of assets. They barely have even one all-star, but when you watch them, it makes sense together.

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I don't know if there's another gear for them, if they're playing the same team six, seven times in two weeks. I think they'd get easy. But when you think about like Boston, Cleveland, especially the Knicks, There's another level I feel like they can go. The question for me with OKC, because I think everybody's going to defend them the same way. They're just going to trap Shea.

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They're going to send two guys at them. They're going to make Jalen Williams and some of these other guys basically have the ball in big moments, a lot like how people are defending the Celtics. The smart teams of the Celtics are trapping Jason at the top. They're sending two guys at him. They really want Jalen Brown to decide the games now because he's not playing that well.

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And I just don't know if Jalen Williams can win four straight playoffs in a row for you. And how is Shea going to figure out how do I be regular season Shea when I'm just seeing this constantly? So I think the West is open is my point.

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The Clippers game, I think, unfortunately, was a bad game for the Celtics long-term because the Clippers coaching that game was so smart. They basically laid out the blueprint or reminded everybody of the blueprint of what to do against the Celtics. And Van Gundy was amazing in that. Both of those guys.

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And now, like, Houston was basically doing a lot of the same stuff that the Clippers did in that game. And if you have... Big swings, you can protect the rim a little bit, and you just keep blitzing Tatum and making everyone else beat you. Basically, what it's going to come down to is, can Jalen Brown get back to where he was last year?

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Because last year, we were arguing about 1A, 1B with Tatum and Brown. That argument's over. It's 1-2, and we need... Can Jalen get back to 1B?

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I'm not, we're not down on him either.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we're really here to talk about Eddie's finals pick, which was Minnesota versus Philadelphia before the season. I looked it up. That finals pick is three games under .500, Eddie. Like if it can't get over 500, do you just retire at the end of the year? Like what's your plan?

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I'm a patriot, Justin. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I care about my country.

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Well, what if I said this to you? The 2025 champion will come from the East.

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I mean, by the way, what you just laid out was the reason the Lakers won all those titles in the 80s because they never had to play anybody. The East was just killing each other. And the Lakers were like, ah, we got to play the Spurs in the Western Finals.

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Yeah, that's your worst point you've made.

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Those 80s Lakers had two rivals, both of whom flamed out immediately. The 86 Rockets, who were the absolute all-time kryptonite team for them, and that team implodes with drugs. And then the Mavs, that same era, Roy Tarpley stays healthy, and they actually have to go through those two teams that they... As you know, I hate the Lakers.

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The luck that they had in the 80s was unbelievable with their opponents.

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I mean, you know. There's a lot to hate.

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I would lean toward the East to produce our champion, but I'm also not tied to it for a bunch of reasons. One, all the stuff you laid out about how competitive it's going to be. But two, there's still some West teams. I'm not crossing up Denver at all. I know they've had a goofy year. I'm just not crossing them off yet because of how good yoga is. Of course you're not. I'm just not.

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He's been definitely a hundred percent better. We talked about him a month ago on your show and I was terrified that.

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No, but he's playing better.

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The league is better. I mean, I just think it's so admirable for the very small market Denver Nuggets to...

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I'm going to whisper this one. Clippers, is there something there? As a playoff team? If Kawhi can actually start to look like... I saw him the other day.

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Justin, any comments on that one?

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Is that a 28-minute limit?

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Because, Justin, they have Zubats, who's turned into not an all-star center, but he was maybe in the borderline slot list. Harden and Powell. Kawhi, all these role players. And I think they have a top three coaching staff.

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Justin cares about that more than I, we're not going to bat a thousand. We're going to get some stuff wrong. There was no sign, none that the Clippers were going to be a possible playoff team. You were worried about Kawhi, but also they lost Paul George, who was important for them. And they replaced him with a bunch of dudes. And it's like, and then when you watch them, the team makes sense.

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Derrick Jones is a really good ad for them.

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Kawhi comes in. All he's doing is taking Batum's minutes and some Terrence Mann minutes. It's like, this is legit. Even if he plays 25 minutes a game, Harden, I still feel like the right teams can take him out because he doesn't have the same burst that he did.

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If he's going against a Houston or a Memphis, teams with young, big wings that can throw at him, I think it's hard for him to get his shots. I'll tell you another thing. I've talked about it before. Eddie, have you done a game at Intuit yet?

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They have a borderline home court advantage now, which is nuts.

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They never had anything before.

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Right. Yeah, no, I think that team's really interesting to me. The Spurs, if they got Fox, which we should talk about. I want to watch this next two Wemby months because they're 20 and 24 right now. And somehow they're only five games out of the five.

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It's probably a lot of picks. Actually, let's talk about that. We'll take one more break. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Hills Pet Nutrition. Hills Food, Shelter, and Love Program provides science-led nutrition for cats and dogs in shelters across America. They've helped more than 15 million pets find new homes.

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Participate and play you for an ultra and send the winner an ultra through DoorDash today. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser-Busch McGlobe Ultra Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 or older to order alcohol. Alcohol available only in select markets. This episode is brought to you by Hookah. I've got to talk to you guys about the Bondi 9, the new daily trainer from Hookah.

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The Bondi 9 delivers peak plushness for everyday miles overhauled from top to bottom. They've increased the stack height and added a new premium foam midsole to deliver that soft, resilient ride that's become synonymous with the Bondi. And look, I walk a lot. I walk all around LA. You need good shoes for that. These are perfect. Everybody, Bondi.

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Visit hookah.com, H-O-K-A.com to learn more about the Bondi 9. Darren Fox. I was taping a pod on Tuesday with Versillo. And then all of a sudden this trade thing came out and I was like, boy, that's weird. And that's like, he has a specific team. And then it turns out he wants to go to the Spurs. I haven't talked about this on my pod. I know you've probably talked about it in your show, Justin.

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I had great career move by Darren Fox, trying to go to the Spurs. Like this is like trying to join the hit TV show. That's going to be the number one show on TV for the next 10 years. Like it's, I get why he wants to do it. They need somebody like him. The question for me is, what is the timetable for the Spurs? Do you even need to do this now? What's the point of it?

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You have no chance to win a title. If he wants to play for you this bad, why not just wait until he's a free agent? Why am I giving up stuff for him now?

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Plus, Fox, they were a two-seed two years ago. He was the best guy on that team. So it's not like teams haven't succeeded with him. I guess the way I'm looking at it, the risk would be If we don't do this now, what if somebody trumps him? What if somebody else trades for him? What if we lose this opportunity? So then who are the other guys out there? Because they clearly need somebody like this.

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They need somebody. Give him the car keys. Let him run shit. And it's like you start looking around the league. Who else is it? Like Garland's not leaving Cleveland. Garland was the guy to get last summer and they probably should have tried to overpower them. Do you wait on Hope Maxey? Hope Philly just goes so far sideways that maybe they would just want a complete rebuild.

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You go through all the rosters and he's kind of the best fit for what they need.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, that was the worst one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because that makes Luke look like a loser. Honestly, like he's just going to This is the same shit we make.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, he went to Wade was one of the three best players in the league when he went there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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36.393

I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Wade was probably the third best player in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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In the 2011 playoffs, he was the best part of the team.

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He wasn't chopped liver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Are you in the matrix where Joel Embiid plays basketball games? Because we're living here on planet Earth when he's in street clothes every game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So if you're San Antonio and you can trade for Fox, keep Castle because Castle is just, I'm not even discussing him. Not discussing Wemby. And you can potentially keep Vassell. And then you add Fox. And I don't care. Take your pick. What picks do you want? I would probably do it as long as it wasn't an insane amount of picks. I don't know what these teams are doing with all their picks.

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I really like that Atlanta team, too. I thought they were like a six seed kind of range sleeper. And then they just can't get healthy.

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So is the league more fun if there's a Fox to San Antonio trade this year? I think it is. We basically sacrificed Sacramento as a playoff team and replaced them with San Antonio.

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If Chris Paul was in the trade.

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You think Sacramento could still patch it together? They'd have an older team, right?

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So why'd you try to trade him? Why'd you trade him from Phoenix? Why'd you sign off on that deal?

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Why are you blaming me? Remember that year when Eddie thought Yusuf Nurkic was good? We had to like kindly remind him over and over again.

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He should be on a lottery team.

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Eddie, he's in his 30s. It's not happening. Give up the ghost.

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This is too much Nerkich talk already.

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He's already packed. He goes to the Suns games and he has all his suitcases in case the trade happens.

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I remember this story.

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We messed up the other two picks, though.

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Oh, my God. Bird would have put Eddie in the Hall of Fame. He'd be like Michael Cooper.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you've been in the league since 1981 in various capacities. Have you ever seen anything remotely approaching Wemby in person?

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So when you're on the plane after a game, are all the Suns players and coaches just talking about him for the next half hour?

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Did they invite you for the poker games?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Jesus. Well, in your day, you're sitting in airports.

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People are coming up to you in the gates. That was such a fascinating era.

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Just eating like McDonald's with a two-hour connection in Kansas City, trying to go somewhere else.

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Right. He's like, are you a basketball player? So we should talk about the Suns. You'd, uh, cause you weren't on Justin's show today, so he didn't get the, uh, the privilege, pleasure, honor of, of your reaction to the ESPN story about some of the sun stuff.

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I, my take, and I've said this before is I actually think the sons, the team they built is a team that really made sense in the 2010s, but the league is just way better now. in that star system, which a bunch of teams have, where they have the two really good guys, it just doesn't work the way it did. Like you, you really need seven to nine guys who can be good at all times built around the two.

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And I don't know how they, they're kind of down this road down. I don't know how they fix it. I know they freed up some picks, but is this even fixable in your opinion? You're at every game.

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What do you see, Justin?

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I had the same reaction. You don't do that because they basically turned the $2 bill into, you know, a dollar and two quarters. You don't do that unless you know you're about to do something. So then everybody's like, all right, can't wait to see what it is. A week passed.

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Well, my guess is they're trying to use one of the picks to dump Nurkic on another team, right? So then maybe he's in a three-team or a four-team trade, whatever. But either way, once you dump him... you have more flexibility to do the next move.

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Tough one for me because that was one of my best bets heading into the year was Phoenix over 47 now. Eddie, you've watched Durant now for almost two years up close doing every game. Is there anything... that stood out that you just had no idea until you're watching him night after night?

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So it's like something he was doing from like age six. Yeah. That's just part of his life every day.

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I keep waiting for signs of slippage with him because he's been in the league for 18 years now, Justin. Yeah. You know, there's moments when he looks a little stiffer than maybe when you go back and you watch like the early OKC stuff and he's just such a crazy freak, seven foot and just so it's a whiff stiffer, but he has all the same shots and he's so smart.

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It's almost like what was happening with LeBron near the end when you just kind of know where to go, where to be. You can read everything and you know exactly what your best play is. I don't really see a lot of slippage. I don't know how much longer this goes.

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The first year, though, they had the bad luck injuries. And that's the big what ifs.

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You know, there's something Eddie said about when we talk about LeBron once, when you think like when somebody gets to the league, did they maximize whatever the potential of what they could have been, right? I think LeBron's the best example of this. Whatever you thought the ceiling was, and he had the most expectations of just about anybody. And then he hit all the expectations.

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I agree with Justin, which won't be the last time in this podcast. Sorry, Eddie.

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I think Durant's like that too. And yet he's always going to have this thing about switching teams, right? And that's going to become part of the legacy. But what's, what's interesting to me about legacies is just watching Vince Carter, right? He gets his Jersey retired in Toronto and in New Jersey. He's in New Jersey for four and a half years.

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I just don't think anybody gives a shit after a while, right? So even Toronto where you would think, Out of any fan base would be the maddest at a player who left. And even they were like, yeah, we don't care. And I just think when Durant, when he retires, everybody's like, oh, what's going to happen? Who's going to retire his number? I think he'll get his number retired at OKC and Golden State.

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And I think his legacy will be fine. At the rate they do it, they'll probably do it in Brooklyn. Brooklyn might. If they're going to do Vince Carter, maybe KD's next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Maybe. I'm not ruling anything out.

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It is crazy how that works out. The Toronto thing really blew my mind.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. I get like, there were some good times in it too, but it's, I guess there's a statute of limitations for all this stuff. But back to KD, like, I just think all that stuff washes away. He won two titles. He's one of the best, either 15 or 20 players ever, depending on, you know, what your list is. And that's just going to be the legacy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You mean not all-star Devin Booker. Embiid, a lot of wear and tear. Bad injury history of big men over seven feet who hit their thirties and have been in the automobile shop a lot, shall we say. So I think if I'm Philly, I'm just terrified. One of the things I put up a trade value list today where I ranked the best trade assets in the league. And we did at 85 this year.

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I'm going to respectfully disagree. I think Golden State won 73 games. Curry was hurt in that 2016 playoffs. In Cleveland, the next two years, Kyrie, LeBron got rocky. Kyrie left.

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those there were no big shots they were winning the series in four or five games but he hit the big shots i mean he hit the big shots in that series and then so that's the difference but this is the thing like if you just go back to that clay thompson game the sliding doors of it okc just beats golden state then okc plays cleveland in the finals and it feels like the next nine years of the league is just different i don't know how it plays out like what if okc beats cleveland

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And then it's like LeBron doesn't get the title in Cleveland. Does he stay in Cleveland until he gets the title? What happens? What happens to Golden State if Durant doesn't go there? It's probably the biggest what-if of this century.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is finally, we can all agree on Westbrook at the same time, which I don't know if it's ever happened. I love Westbrook and Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's the thing. It's weirdly bad for LeBron, Eddie. This is like in the Jokic versus LeBron argument. This is not, this is an L for LeBron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's the one real nitpick with LeBron is everybody else has to fit toward him.

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But some of the best players of all time fit to the teammates.

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An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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And I had him be number 54 on the list. And a couple of people reached out to me in NBA circles and were like, you could have put him 254th. Nobody is trading for him in that contract. I'm not positive. I feel like it's gotten to that point. But Justin, do you feel like Is he even tradable at this point? Or is it just like we have no idea what to expect with this dude anymore?

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also though the fact that westbrook is seems like he's like 95 as explosive as he was 12 years ago like he's just an all-time freak it's ridiculous even lebron like slowed down and got bigger and changed some of what he did westbrook seems like he's just like in like i don't know i don't understand yeah even though i said he should retire i'm happy that he uh is not because i do love his mental approach it's awesome we need a guy that cares every single night as much as what they

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I flew to Oklahoma City at the end of 2010 because I just wanted to go to a game. I really liked watching OKC and I just kind of wanted to see them before they ascended to whatever was going to happen with them. And I went to a practice and And at the end of the practice, they were running the wind sprints. And KD and Russ were beating everybody in the wind sprints.

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They're like busting each other's ass trying to beat some random day in December in the middle of the season. And they're flying back and forth trying to beat each other. And I really think all those early years where they're competing against each other and Harden's trying to compete against them probably had some weird...

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you know, carry on effect to the fact that we're in the mid 2020s and all those guys are still unimportant teams, you know, doing their thing. Cause now they're on their mid thirties.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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51.638

Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Vrbo, private vacation rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, before we go quick, quick, quick game. A, do you believe, uh, Do you believe in Cleveland as an actual title contender, Justin?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think I don't think it was a thought. I think I don't know if he was 100 percent happy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right now in FanDuel, they're plus 850. They have the third best odds for the title. The Celtics are plus 210. OKC is plus 230. Don't make a Terry Rozier joke.

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So my fear, I think the Knicks are really good and you can see them getting better and you know, they're going to get a buyout guy and they'll have an eight man rotation. You know, they're all going to play too many minutes and somebody will probably get hurt. But I think the ceiling, I'm really impressed by them, especially offensively.

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I do wonder with the, with the amount of stuff they're putting on Brunson, how sustainable that is for nine months. That would be my biggest fear if I'm a Knicks fan. It's not a big guy. We just haven't seen teams built around small guards. be able to survive for nine months. The only guy that really did it was Isaiah.

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And they got great crowds, but that's why I like Cleveland a little bit more. I like the way they've handled the regular season. They're winning, but you look at their minutes, and everybody's like 30 minutes and below. They're really... They're really kind of pushing toward wherever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, 36 minutes and up for the top two. Do you believe in Zion at this point, Eddie?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But what's funny about you laying that out, though, is that he came into the league as one of the best assets for the number one pick that we probably had this century.

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The one thing I've learned a couple of things, I guess, fall in sports and trying to come up with things to say and studying stuff. If the guy doesn't want it, there's not a lot else you can do. And I think you could say that if you're a parent and you have a kid that's good at a certain sport, you can't force the kid to be awesome at the sport. At some point, they're going to have to give a shit.

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And he says all the right things sometimes, but it just doesn't seem like he gets it. And now he's headed toward his mid-20s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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And at some point, it's either going to happen or it's not up here. And it just doesn't seem like it's there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Yeah, I'm on that line, Eddie, but you probably would bet on the talent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Oh yeah. Well, that contrasts that to your Durant story.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Durant probably ever since he could hit the 10 foot rim with the ball, he's probably been shooting jumpers for three, four or five hours a day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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So yeah, that that's the thing. And I, I actually think Tatum has this, I think Tatum and Brown has it too. And maybe it's a good thing that they, you know, they're a little competitive in a good way with each other. But I think they come in every year. Like this year, Jalen got too big, but at least... there was intent behind it. Right. He's like, I need to, I need to survive the nine months.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Tatum always adds to a few year after year. I know. I want Jalen to lose a little.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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This is a bigger issue with the league than I think people realize. Guys that have an extension coming, and they're afraid to get hurt, so they stop working out all during the summer. There's a list of things like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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I think it just happened to Trey Murphy. I think he started out the season shitty, and now he looks like Trey Murphy again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Cause I think everybody, here comes the anti-patriot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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I do think if I could do, if I was the czar of our Olympic basketball program, I would go 25 and under for the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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I want, like, people like Ahmed Thompson on our 2020 Olympic team. Like, let's give them the experience, put them on that stage, and maybe have, like, one or two people over 25 as, like, the adults.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Just get a dual passport and move out of here. Guys, thank you for all the time. This was great. Now I feel better when I pop on your show out of nowhere when I'm driving around. I just text Justin.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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No, but there was a reason you guys couldn't do it last week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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No, this was fun. I had a great time. Uh, you can listen to you guys every, what is it? Four to seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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All right. Safe travels. Great to see you guys. Thanks for coming up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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All right, that's it for the pod. Thanks to JT and Eddie. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahal. As always, don't forget, you can watch the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch Before Sunrise. On the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, the latest rewatchables we did. I will see you on Sunday. We're not going live because there's no football game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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So now I went from, I agreed with everything you said, Justin. I also agree with Eddie. There's always a sucker out there who's going to talk themselves into it. We see it over and over again. I never would have thought the Clippers were going to give Kawhi an extension. After he just kept missing the playoffs. They're like, here, take this. Like, we see it over.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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I never thought Zion would be able to get any sort of a multi-year anything. And he did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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I mean, that's a fair comment. There you go. Phoenix is the sucker at the poker table that all the other poker players are trying to keep at the table.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Do we not have a luxury tax anymore? I think the subject's going the other way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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I think if I had to make my they'd be crazy enough to trade for him list, I think Golden State would do it just because I think Golden State right now, it's not Hail Mary time for Golden State, but they're like, it's third and 13, third and 15. And I think they just need to do anything. Phoenix is definitely, if Phoenix could turn Beal and Embiid, they would do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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What are you talking about?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Did something happen with Bradley Beal professionally that I'm missing? We wouldn't do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends. They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Thank you. Speaking of the Phoenix Suns, the All-Star rosters came out today, and I had surprisingly very few quibbles. I would get to my one quibble. But I did notice that the great Devin Booker, who we're on a lot of texts with Eddie where we have to hear about the virtues of Devin Booker and how great he is, did not make the All-Star team. Your defense, Eddie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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So I go both ways, but first of all, I don't like the word snub with the all-star game when we have a lot of good players, right? If you go back 20 years, which I wrote about in the trade value intro today, like we, we didn't have a crap load of talent in like 2007. So if you got snubbed from the all-star game, you feel it. Now we have so many good players. Like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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I, the most surprising one was Kyrie more surprising than Booker. I didn't like the thought of having two sons, all stars when there are 500 team, but I think Kyrie, what he's done without Luca and the fact that he's just day to day, night to night, showing up, carrying them. I thought he should have made it. I, that was the biggest snub to me. I don't understand why we had all these centers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Before Sunrise, a 90s classic. You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have our friends at FanDuel who every Friday, 30 on 30 is happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Um, I have no idea why Shingun, if you're going to have four centers, how does Shingun make it over Sabonis? But then Eddie, the other side of it is I do like when they reward the guys on winning team. And it's like, yeah, I get it. Houston should have an all-star.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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So Shingun makes it over Sabonis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Roundtable With Eddie Johnson and Justin Termine

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Um, but I don't understand the Kyrie part and I would have Kyrie overhearted.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't foul out on your chance to win with America's number one sports book. Bet on fun markets like live quarter player props and parlays. Plus enjoy our new NBA player prop pages, your one-stop shop for player props that include FanDuel's exclusive performance trends.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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That's the number one thing with them. And that's the thing you read from literally everybody who passes through his life in some capacity is maniac competitor. They say that over and over again. And the older I get, the more I feel like, whether it's football, basketball, name a sport, that's the number.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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If you really want to be truly great, that's the number one quality that everybody seems to have. Just maniac competitor, maniac competitor wants it so bad. Oh, he's not that great at this yet. He's just going to keep going and going until he can go up a level. And I'm with you. If you were going to use him as a point forward, I don't think his ball handling is good enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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to do that in the NBA right now, but he's 18. But it's one of those things that I could just see him. He's like, all right, I got to work on this. I'm going to absolutely be a psycho and work on this constantly. All right, I got to work on catch and shoot threes. I'm going to just shoot 10,000 of these until I get it. I just think that's who he is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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He's at the top. Next two, Larry Bird, John Havlicek. I don't need to make the case for Larry Bird. I have him as the sixth best guy ever. Three straight MVPs, three titles. But here's a fun Larry Bird fact. MVP from 1980 to 1988. Fourth, second, second, second, first, first, first, third, second. That's over nine years. Larry Bird was amazing. And I think he even would have been better now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And all the best guys ever, and not that he has a chance to be that good, but all the best guys ever had that. So if you're adding that, Whoever gets them. And I'm already worried about the lottery because there's a couple of teams where I'm like, oh man, I just don't want him to go there. You know, like which ones?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Well, I, you know, like I don't want him to go to like a bad team where we had this NBA infection that we've had for 50, 60 years where we take these great talented players and just stick them in bad situations. Like, like what happened with LeBron and Cleveland the first couple of years, or he's done the worst possible team. And he turned out to, you know, it turned out great for him, but

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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You just lose a couple of years. The best case scenario is what happened with Bird. There's no scenario like that this year in the NBA that that could happen. But Bird goes to the 79-80 Celtics and they already have like good players. They go from 29 wins to 60 plus, but they had really good players in that team and he just elevated all of them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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So, you know, like I don't think Portland can get in there, but I think Portland is a team that, you know, if he was on a team like that, that would be really interesting. Philly. Yeah. You know, if somehow Embiid came back, if they if they were able to stay in the top six, San Antonio would be the dream of all the teams putting him next to Wemby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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I can't think of a better like sidekick for Wemby, assuming Wemby is going to be all right next year. Yeah. They have a couple of bites at the apple. But when you start talking about like just throwing them on Washington, I don't know how many of the guys in the Wizards are even going to be in that team in three years. You know, you really want to build around him in the right way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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John Havlicek, In the running for most underrated NBA superstar of all time, eight titles, 25,000 points, played 16 years, which is like playing 25 years now. I don't know how he did it. His three-year peak, 27, nine and eight. His four-year playoff peak, 27-9-6, was one of the most clutch players of his era, if not the number two clutch guy behind Jerry West.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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It's interesting because one of the guys that he reminds me of, he has nothing in common with physically really, but it's KG. Because KG was 7'1". Their bodies are completely different. I think KG was probably a better athlete. But the way as a help defender and a rim protector... and just how he's moving a second before the play is moving. And he always seems to know where shit's going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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That's the KG quality. I mean, that was, that was one of the things that made him so special. He doesn't have the same size. He doesn't have the same arm length. Um, and he's not as like a scary competitor, but he's fierce.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Like KG was, you know, and I think that's another guy who is a good comparison for him where you, you talk to, like we were doing the Celtics doc and we had so many stories from these people that played on those Oh eight Oh nine teams where they were just like, the guy was,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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a lunatic like we have these random scrimmages and you know beginning of October four weeks before the season started and he's caked in sweat and screaming at everybody and there's just certain guys like that that's why the fit's gonna be so important like New Orleans that one would worry me because of uh You know, they've been a tortured franchise for 50 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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It just seems like people go there and bad things happen. Utah's a weird fit just because of the players they already have. Toronto is kind of the other one I was looking at where they have... you know, some interesting offensive players and a couple of Barnes. I don't know what Barnes is still, but they have some talent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And could that be a place where he could go in and he just becomes a centrifugal force? How much is what happens over these next month here, the AC tournament and March Madness? Does it affect anything with him and how people are going to feel about him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Yeah, right. You've sent in your verdict already. Is he the most sure thing guy you've studied since you started doing this with us?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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You know, you could be in the team you have five years from now. Maybe nobody's on that team from right now anyway. Yeah, because Wemby was a sure thing except how tall he was and the history of guys over a certain height. So even though he was a sure thing and he checked every box, he wasn't a sure thing because... It's just hard when you get that big.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And we have the history of, it's just, it's too complicated. So it's always in the background. Every time he would land on a foot, anything, you're always nervous. Luka, to me, at least for me, was the surest thing. Just kept watching what he did that year overseas and how sophisticated his offensive game was. And I thought Anthony Davis was a sure thing. I was incredibly excited for Zion.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And the greatest thing about him, all-time Swiss Army knife guy. Had this whole career as a six-man. He could play guard. He could play forward. Whatever your team needed, He could do it. And then eventually he ended up as a forward during the last couple of titles. But there's never been a career quite like that where you're just winning when you come in, you're winning when you leave.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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I thought, you know, holy shit. But there was always that fear factor with Zion because he was so in the air all the time. Those guys always make you a little nervous. Anthony Davis was like, this guy's definitely going to be on a really good team at some point in his career. You just see it at Kentucky.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Now it took longer than we thought, but those are the guys, at least recently that I think jump out. Am I missing anyone?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Well, because you look at somebody like John Moran, you're like, all right, this guy who can't shoot from the outside. He's an electric athlete, but he's in the air. He's banging bodies all the time. There's things that make you nervous. If I'm taking a guy like this, I want it to be like... I know I'm going to have this guy for 12 to 15 years at the highest possible level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And for something for that not to happen would have to be like a legitimate fluke. It's not a legitimate fluke of like when Benyama hurts his knee or his foot or anything, because we see that with centers. But, you know, I think Anthony Davis, to me, it seemed like, man, I really hard to come up with a scenario where he's not awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Chris Paul was a short thing to me as a point guard. I was, that was like, there was no way he wasn't going to be really good. And Durant was another one from that era that if you actually watched that whole season and watched all the, just how easy it was to get whatever shot he wanted and how unusual of a player he was. It was like, there was no way this guy is going to be awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Where I usually get in trouble are the the guys who have the athleticism, but it's hard to tell what the motor is or what the competitiveness is or situations like Dwight Howard. It's like, how did the guy's 18? He's got Adonis body. I have no idea. You know, would you bet your life? LeBron was an easy one. Yeah. You know, in 03, all you had to do was watch him in high school twice.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And like, there's nothing like this right now. Six foot eight and a half, like athlete like this, this is going to be insane. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Right, you can grow out of it. But there are red flags, though, like Ben Simmons, that LSU season, and then him just ditching the team with, like, a few weeks left, and it was like, that didn't go great. Whereas if it was somebody like Cooper Flagg or if KG had gone to college, there's just no way they're not finishing the season and being a complete psychopath the entire season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And then the next level. So Bob Cousy, if I had to do a Mount Rushmore, he would be the fourth guy for that. Six rings, won an MVP, best non-center of the first 15 years of the league. The first fun, entertaining player in the history of the league. That's relevant. First great point guard ever. Relevant. 10 first all-NBAs, two second all-NBAs. He was just a dominant player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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There's stuff you can learn. To me, Flagg is as sure of a thing as I can remember. The best thing about him from an NBA standpoint is you can just see what he's going to be. Like there's such a clear position that now exists in the way, in the way the league is that I would just assume somebody is going to end up using him a lot. Like the Celtics use Tatum. It's going to have the ball a lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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He's going to bounce around depending on what the matchup is. It can be a little bit of a Swiss army knife, the same way Tatum is. Um, and can you be a crunch time guy? Maybe. Is he going to be better off as a completely overqualified number two? I think he's better than that. But yeah, that's your worst case scenario for him. It's going to be really great. All right. We're taking a break.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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I like trying to guess. I do the matchups. I look at how many people played four games in five nights, all that stuff. Try to figure out who's just going to go off and then you just get to root for it. Whether you want to ride with my picks or make your own, look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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So I asked you any NBA trend stuff that you've noticed this year. You're a big style of play, comparing stuff to history guy, as am I. Anything you've noticed this year that jumped out? You're like, hmm, well, this is something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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By the time he retired, he was basically the Babe Ruth of the league when he retired. And then he passed the torch to his teammate Russell and Elgin and Wilt and everybody else. But that's the top four. So the other two on that level that I would put, Dave Cowens, who was one of the most important players of the 70s, won an MVP, won a couple titles, and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Yeah, the discipline of we know what types of players we want to put together and we're never deviating from this. Right? The Celtics had this last year with Brissette. They really like Brissette. Incredibly popular teammate. Good athlete. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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you know, whether he's an NBA rotation guy, I don't know, but they ended the year and they're like, we're just, we're not playing anybody who can't make a wide open three if the ball goes to them. Right. So then they're testing out guys, different guys this year. And it's Jordan Walsh gets a cup of coffee and they started playing my guy, Jaden Springer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And I, they just came to the decision, like everybody in the, everybody in Florida needs to be able to shoot a three. That's what we're riding with. So then they end up with Torrey Craig. And then smart guys who all of them can guard somebody or at least not get completely embarrassed in space.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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None of them need the ball, need to be like ball stoppers because they already have two semi ball stoppers with Tatum and Brown.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure, and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly. So download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Yeah, you can have one, two. And even those guys are trying to get better at it. And that's it. And then OKC, it's pretty clear what they're trying to do. They're just getting fantastic athletes. They want the ability to go bigger or smaller depending on who they're playing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And they want guys who can fit with Shea because as great as Shea is, he's another one who is, I don't think he's the easiest guy to play with sometimes. He has the ball a lot, especially when he's feeling it. You got to have guys who aren't going to be like, all right, now it's my turn to shoot. They don't have any, it's my turn now. They don't have any of those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2239.85

right and shay's team they all know it and chet as such he's another one who's just so additive like that going back to the cooper discussion from i think chet cooper have a lot in common yeah actually he's just like he's just there to help and chip in and uh he takes nothing off the table and then jaylen williams is now their wild card and that's the guy i think when they get to the playoffs that's he's going to decide series for them because you're not going to take out shay

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225.189

The 70s Celtics or the 70s Knicks, those were the best two teams of that decade. And he was the most important player, him or Havlicek at least, for this entire Celtics run. So he's on there. And then Sam Jones, who's another underrated all-time guy, who didn't even really get to start because the league was so stacked. They had eight teams, nine teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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but you can limit him a little bit. You can make it hard for him. You can send doubles at him. You can do all the stuff that teams are trying to do Tatum over the last couple of years. And eventually you're going to need the Jalen Brown guy to step up and make some plays. And you're going to need the side guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's when I, especially, I don't know if you saw their, uh, them fall apart against Minnesota in that second game and down the stretch and no T, but I still feel like, you know, until you've done there and you have the scars, uh, And you've lost a couple of those and you have these guys who've just, they've kind of been through a few of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like I still never going to a hundred percent trust it. But then you have a situation with the 2015 Warriors where it's like, I don't trust it. And then they're hoisted the trophy, you know, but anyway, back to your original point. I think you're right. Those two teams that I think Cleveland, I think deserves credit for understanding who they are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And even that Hunter trade, I thought was such a good trade. they needed this specific thing. They went out and got it. All of their guys compliment each other. And to me, those are the three. Those are the three with Denver as the wild card for the top four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He was coming off the bench behind Bill Sharman, who was also awesome. Didn't get to start until the last two-thirds of his career. But is one of the great clutch players in the history of the league, even now, and made all kinds of crazy shots. We covered some of them in the documentary. So Russell, then Bird and Havlicek, then Koozie Collins and Sam Jones. Then these next four, pretty easy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, Golden State is a good example of knowing who you are because the Brandon Ingram trade was sitting there for them for whatever season. They're like, this is the kind of guy that doesn't work out for us. He needs a ball. He's a little bit of a ball stopper. Him playing without the ball isn't awesome. Kerr had him in Team USA. Didn't work out great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2477.587

He basically didn't even... I don't even think he played the last two games. But they kind of held the fort. And then they... Which ties into... We want to talk about Jimmy. Bring in Jimmy and you're keeping your fingers crossed that he's going to behave himself. But knowing that there's a hoops IQ element with him...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then now there's this whole low post and space and Steph pulling guys away and basically you're able to play four on three a little bit with Jimmy as your low post guy, as weird as that is. They've never really had a low post guy like that since... I don't know. Durant, if you count him, but he's kind of like a medium post guy. David Lee going way back. I guess you could throw him the ball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2518.317

Little bogey, maybe. There's a tiny bit of bogey, a tiny bit of David West. But Butler, it's been, and we're taping this before they play tonight, but it's been really fun to watch the different space that they have now. Steph's stats have immediately gotten better. I mean, he's just, it's already had an effect on him. And the more, I loved the trade when it happened. We were really bullish on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2539.035

I bet on the Warriors when I was at the Super Bowl to make the playoffs on FanDuel. Um, the more I'm staring at it, like I do, there are some Rasheed Wallace 04 parallels. Ooh. Where, um, you know, both of those guys, neither of them had actually won a title, but gotten really close. Both of them were just unbelievably talented. Both of them wore out their welcome at the road place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And both of them were, um, a non-sexy asset because of what had happened, but they were still assets. And then it's like, what if we can take this and move this here into this culture with these people? What does this look like? It's very hard to pull those trades off. We've seen a lot of people try to pull off the 2004 Rashid trade. They might've done it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is a team that had no championship ceiling at all. And now they're a team that we have to at least mention.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Iguodala is a good one for that because some of the defense that he brought to the table is some of the stuff Butler's doing for them too. I'm really intrigued by them. And Lakers are another one. I think he's going to fit in easier with Golden State than this Lakers situation. I've already gone on the record. To me, they're a legitimate contender. But it's a pretty dramatic trade for mid-season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Kevin McHale, who is one of the 40 best players of all time. And I think if he doesn't hurt his foot, maybe even can climb up into a potential, I don't know, in the 20s. I don't think it's out of the realm that he could have been in a KG Barkley area, but was never able to recover from all the playoff games they played. But best low post player I've ever seen, him and Akeem. Paul Pierce.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The history of the league is it's really hard to make a trade like that halfway through the year and then actually have it lead to you making the finals or better. There's some examples, but not somebody as talented as Luke is. The league is so much more fun than it was a month ago because Golden State was not fun to watch. I hated watching the Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And now you have these two that it just feels like we have enough teams. I think Memphis is really interesting because, you know, Ja, Ja will have these games where he's like nine for 25, but he makes the two biggest shots of the game. He's not making threes at all. He still plays the same kind of reckless offensive game that always works out for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2733.582

He hasn't really evolved from that at all, but he's still like they're down six down a point or down one with six seconds left. I just feel like he's scoring. He's one of those guys, you know, like in a playoff series, I'm not positive I'd want to see them. And I also don't think they could win the title. So I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2751.046

I think the league got really interesting and I was not interested a month ago. How about you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2854.056

It's fun to think of teams even five, 10 years ago and how they would have competed in the league now, the way how deep everything is. Because I do think the league is just better. And I think that the teams are deeper in a way that that whole model of the mid-late 2000s. I'm not sure. Like the 2017 Warriors would still be awesome.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2872.527

But you go to like that 2019 Raptors team that won. And I know Kawhi was awesome. But he wasn't as awesome in the last two rounds as I think. When we think back and we think like, oh my God, playoff Kawhi in 2019. It was like, all right, the last two rounds not quite as good. They got a really good Van Vliet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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one series and you know they patched it together they had some really good competitors but I look at that team now and it's like with that team would you pick that team ahead of Boston or Cleveland in a playoff series from what we have this year I wouldn't with Gasol and Kawhi and Siakam I think Ananobi missed the playoffs Dan Tweet Lowry I just I think that's that's the third best team in the East so you go back and you look at some of these like that Bucks team that won in 21 and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2919.249

I don't think that team could win now. That Phoenix team that made the finals, built around Booker and CP3 and DeAndre Ayton and Bridges and Cam Johnson, that team's not making the finals now. There's no way. That league's just better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The title changes everything for him, right? If the KG trade doesn't happen, who knows what happens with the second part of Paul Pierce's career. Instead, he belatedly develops into this awesome playoff guy, crunch time guy down the stretch. He just has this whole second career. Also really durable and an excellent scorer and went head to head against LeBron. A lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2985.521

I think people think I'm doing a bit and trying to reverse Jinx Cleveland when I talk about how good I think they are. I think that team's really good. I think it's going to be really hard to win a seven-game series against them, especially when they have a game seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the biggest thing that's changed, everyone's talked about how Mitchell, when they gave him the contract, and he's just pulled back enough that it's still his team, but other guys get to shine. Garland's healthy, but Mobley's the big difference.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3013.314

Cause I feel like his three is going in now, you know, last year it was like, please shoot that you're not making that you there's no way it's gonna be ugly line drive. Now he's shooting with confidence and, um, it's a team that has four of the best 50 guys in the league. Mitchell's in the top eight. Mobley's probably in the top 20 to 22 at this point. And then Hunter is a fifth guy is nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I gotta be honest, like everyone's already given the six man award to Peyton, to Peyton Pritchard. who's, it's weird. You have to watch him because his stats are better than Ty Jerome. And part of the reason they're better is because he's had games where he played in place of Wade or no Jalen Brown. And they just let him go off and I'll have like 29. So maybe that's why he should win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Ty Jerome's been the best bench guy in the league. Especially in these big games. He's like swinging games. Pritchard will have games against certain teams when he just looks like an undersized guard who can't do anything and teams are attacking him. Ty Jerome looks like, it's like, is this guy a $100 million player? What is he?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I just don't think that sixth mate of the year is over yet because I think he's been playing great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cade's the favorite on FanDuel, and I think that's justified.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, the leap that he made. Now, this is like usually most improved is either one of two things. It's either I was here, and now I'm here, or it's like nobody was even fucking talking about me last year, and now I'm here. Cade becoming a top 10, top 12 guy in the league, which I think he is. You've seen it during this win streak. You saw it last night. Yeah. that's probably the winner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3142.016

But yeah, Peyton Pritchard is my, is he's plus one. Oh, Beasley. I forgot about him. He's three to one. And like Ty Jerome, Ty Jerome's 50 to one on Fando. I'm like, is there a better sub than him? I guess they have Ahmed Thompson as a, as a six-man candidate. That's a weird one. I feel like he's a starter, but what do I know? I guess Beasley's a good choice, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My point is, I don't think Pritchard has that award locked up by any means. Beasley's been amazing for Detroit. If he'd played like this on Milwaukee last year, they might have been able to survive until Giannis came back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3176.958

Um, yeah, they, the defensive player of the year, Moby is the favorite for that one too, which, you know, some of this stuff's going to play out and then rookie of the year, um, which is just grisly right now. Castle is the favorite, but this is among the worst rookie of the year candidacy classes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Are we in Michael Carter Williams territory where, uh, we might be, well, that was tough because he just had fake stats on a team that stunk. Um, but yet I still like this rookie class. Where, where do you stand on it? You obviously did a lot of work on it last year for us. The you happy, unhappy, medium, unclear. Where are you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And his team's won against LeBron at not a super young point in LeBron's career either. So he's in there. Jason Tatum, who I think right now I have him fourth level and I have him ninth overall, definitely has a chance to leapfrog a couple of these guys pretty soon. I think especially if they won back-to-back titles this year, I think he has to go into the top six at that point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3260.52

Are you surprised by Shepard, though? Because you were pretty high on him at least being like a bench guy right away, right? I'm kind of amazed he's not playing at all for Houston. I don't really know the reasons.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Some signs the other night. I'm all in. I haven't sold any of my Dillingham stack.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I like that he seems like a great teammate and a real competitor too, which I like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm fascinated by the other Rutgers guy. And I know he's either going to break hearts. Ace? I'm fascinated by Ace. I don't know what he is. If I was a GM, I think I'd be afraid to be like, all right, this is my third pick. I'm going all in on this guy because... There's a chance it just is not going to translate to the NBA in the right way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But there's another alternate universe where it's like, this guy seems legitimately unstoppable. Yeah. And what is this going to look like if he just figures out a couple things? His offensive... The shot making is just really unusual. I don't want to compare it to Durant because that's like, you know, sainted ground.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But there's some stuff he does where I just don't think he'd be fun to play with, at least not yet. You know, it just seems like the ball's going to him. He's shooting. He's one of those guys. But there's some shot-making stuff with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Bill Sharman, who is the best two guard in the league for the first 15 years of the league. Warren's mentioning just first team all NBA year after year. Good score. And also weirdly, I think People seem to think he was the toughest guy from that era. He was just cold cock people for the hell. I didn't like the way you set that pick on me. I'm just punching you. So I'm putting him in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You take him and you're either, it's going to work out and you're getting a four year extension or you're, you're going to be on NBA TV in a year. It is a risk reward pick, but I am fascinated by him and his teammates really good too. I mean, as his teammate is a way more traditional, this is the kind of guy we've seen succeed in the NBA over and over again. I don't have a lot of takes on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's really crafty. He's going to be a really good NBA player. I don't know if he's going to be an all-NBA guy, but he'll be good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I gotta say, I've been impressed by Duke, just the team that they have. They have a bunch of guys that I could just see on NBA teams down the stretch, but I admittedly have not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, one of the wrinkles for me is I've never watched women's college basketball during the regular season before, and I've actually watched women's college over men's college a couple times, which has been really surprising to me. So I feel like I'm not as versed on the men as I usually would be at this time of year. But I have watched...

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a bunch of Duke and, um, for them to not at least make like the final four final two, I just feel like something really bad would have had to happen during a game. Like they just go ice cold. They just seem really complete. Um,

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And then the final level, the last five, Kevin Garnett, who was only with the Celtics for six years, but that 08 team. And then the first half of 2009, they make the 2010 finals. They almost make it again in 12. And a beloved Celtic too. I think the most popular Celtics ever. Since my dad has had season tickets now since the 73, 74 season bird was the most popular.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's finally, we finally have more time to watch stuff. Hey, so I want to talk Celtics a little bit because we got the big documentary Celtics city coming on March 3rd, Monday on max and on HBO. Um, you follow the history of the league. You try to intersect it with the guys we're watching now. Is there anybody from all of the different Celtics errors that you would love to have seen in 2025?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh man, that's a great question. I mean, bird, bird, you can't count bird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3756.36

Cause I feel like McHale is now a unicorn that will never happen again because whatever version of McHale happens in 25, that guy's just shooting threes all the time. It's up, which started to happen to McHale near the end of his career. He started stretching them four more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just don't know if a low post guy would ever have that arsenal moves anymore because you'd be, it would just be banged in your brain to shoot threes and clear space, get out of the way for other people. I don't see it happening again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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McHale became a better passer than... because he played with Bird. It was that osmosis thing. I think if McHale's on another team, he's probably like 1.1 assists a game. But I think when you play with somebody who's just always making extra passes, there's no way you don't start doing it. It's one of the great things about basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I guess like you would have had, McHale would have been a center. You would have put shooting all the way around him and just tried to get him on the low post with space. And that would have been a good one. The types like the Parrish types, Those guys now, they're just valued completely differently in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because back then, every team needed one or you needed a center to guard the other centers. And now, those guys are like $15 to $20 million players. Or you'll see a team like the Lakers. They're just like, I guess we're just not going to have a center. Or it's somebody like the way the Celtics use Porzingis and Horford as these stretch fives with size that...

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you know, ideally you can kind of play them off the ball and then have them come flying in on the paint. It's just, there's not a lot of parish types now. Detroit probably plays the closest to what an old, older era team plays like, right? Yeah. They have size and rebounding and they're tough and nasty.

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And I really think the next two were probably Callens and Garnett in some order. And I don't know who was ahead of who, but in terms of just beloved by the crowd and the fans, Garnett has to be up there. Tommy Heinsohn only played for like eight or nine years because this was the smoking drinking era.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They have a couple shooters and then they have one really good offensive player and it's just kind of, it's like a 1991 type of team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. We had a few of those. Havlicek's definitely one, um, who was, uh, incredibly important player to the league in the seventies, especially as one of the legacies to Russell and the Celtics, but also like as the ABA is getting more and more fun, he's one of the few stars they had left. Uh, Reggie Lewis was a big one. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, and we hadn't really seen that, you know, we, we have a lot of Reggie stuff and the last third of the series. And, uh, I just think he's one of those that kind of came and went. People remember he died, but they don't remember how good he was and how important he was to the Celtics. That was another one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Then there's moments as you go through where you're trying to explain the impact of somebody. Koozie. I mean, Koozie is a big part of the first episode. How important he was to the league. The league just wasn't entertaining. They didn't have a shot clock for eight years. And it was just a bunch of... You've seen some of the old videos. It's brutal. And it's just a lot of big guys.

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A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And it's a lot of set shots and running hooks. And then Koozie comes in and he's... easily the most fun player in the league. And he's the most fun player in the league probably for the first 15 years of the league until Elgin and Jerry West and Oscar kind of get going. And the way he ran fast breaks and just some of the old footage. It's like, it's impossible not to enjoy

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the way those teams played. It's so different. It's the same sport, but it has no correlation to what we're watching now. Everything's about three on two, three on one, two on one, four on two. Can we get a layup? Can we get a layup? Can we get a layup? And that's like the driving force.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now you're running in the same place and the guys are splitting out to the corners and Kuzi would be running and he'd be like doing like over the head tosses to somebody in the corner. It's just completely different. So yeah, there is some pressure with some of that just to explain like, hey, here's why this person was special for four minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think they were just having cigarettes at their timeouts, but was an awesome, awesome forward and a big score rebounder came through a couple of times in the playoffs, outplayed some forwards out really good, like Bob Pettit. So he's in there, Robert Parrish, 13 years, I think, with the Celtics, maybe 14, three titles. Wasn't on that Kareem level as a center, but was on that second level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then it was really, really physical. You know, you're just, people are just like, it was more like hockey. They called them cagers, you know, the first 15 years of the league. So it's a, it's a different sport. The other thing with the assists, like they're scoring all these points.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You only got an assist if it was like the guy is catching the ball and like laying in or the guy is catching it and shooting immediately or they didn't count it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh my God. I mean, they complained, they must complain about so many different things, but, uh, like the equipment they had, the money they didn't make, uh, all the statistical rules against them. But, uh, but yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then, you know, it's, it's, we try to use the Celtics as a lens to look at the league and the sport and how it changed and how it intersected with America and all these different ways. And, it is hilarious how the footage changes over the years. Even you watch the stuff from the 80s, like we have a big part about the Boston Philly series in 1981, which is like probably my favorite series ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that becomes... it's just a UFC fight. It's like a 10 man UFC fight. There's no spacing at all. Every time somebody goes to the basket, they're just getting clobbered and it becomes this kind of hybrid of like rugby basketball and UFC by the fourth quarter. And that's like, you just wouldn't, you wouldn't really see that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. We did this big docuseries for Max and HBO that premieres on March 3rd, Monday. It is about the Boston Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We see elements of that sometimes with the big tense games, but not like that. There's not, there's not, there will never be another series like that. I don't think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, that's how the 85 Lakers won the finals. They just stacked it. And if you watch some of the footage from that, Danny Ainge and DJ, they're not just wide open from three. They're wide open from like 18. So Lakers are so packed. They're just not letting McHale and Bird beat them. And they're just like, take those 18 footers all day. And the Celtics kind of didn't know how to respond.

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And when you watch it now, you're just like, why didn't you guys move back? You would have just had wide open threes. You would have made one out of every three. The points per possession would have been more, but... You know, nobody really thought that way. There's a lot of good stuff. I think for the basketball junkies, I think they're going to be pleasantly surprised.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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We were able to pack a lot of stuff in this thing. You believe in the Pistons yet, by the way? I forgot to ask you about them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think he even had a second team on NBA, so he's on there. JoJo White. Another guy really underrated from the 70s. I had him in the pyramid when I did my book in 2009 and had his most famous moment other than winning two titles was the triple overtime game, which is one of the great performances by a non-superstar that we've ever had in the finals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's a tough one. And Marcelo never wavered on Cade. Neither did I. I don't understand it. But I think, you know, he was a different guy than he was this year. Yeah. And everyone's admitting, really, from the last couple months, anyone who listened to any of our stuff or any of the stuff we were doing, it was like something really good is happening with Cade Cunningham here. Mm-hmm.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it keeps going and going and going. And the veteran shooters they put around them, I think is a good model for how to build a team. It's interesting though, Like right now they're sixth. They have a chance to bump to four or five. If I were them, I'd want to be in that sixth spot and I'd want to play the Knicks because I think they could give the Knicks a shitload of trouble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're a really tough physical team. They're probably, if they're not the best rebounding team in the league, they're in the top three. Um, I just would want to see them in a playoff series and it's probably a year too early. It's probably like what Orlando is like last year. It was like, Oh, watch out for these guys. And then they shoot 20% in a game seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But, uh, when you can rebound and you have veteran shooting and you have one guy that you can go to in the last five minutes, I just, I'm taking you seriously. So I knew they were going to beat the Celtics last night. No Jalen Brown, third game and fourth night. It's kind of a bad matchup. Celts are kind of stuck in the second spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like that felt like a loss, but it's still a really nice win for Detroit. Like they've won eight straight. I'm taking them. I'm taking them seriously as at least the first round upset threat. I think you have to think of them that way now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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their top five net last 15 games or plus 7.6. That's like you're, if you're in the top five for a 15 to 20 game stretch at this point of the season, I think you have to be taken seriously. Anyway. All right, Kyle, man, I'll, I'll, we'll, you'll come back at some point when we're in the March madness throws, but it was good to see you as always.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right. Susan Morrison is here. She works for the New Yorker. She wrote a big biography on Lorne Michaels that came out last week or this week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Last week. And how long were you working on it? Because it felt like this was like almost a decade's worth of work.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think he played 60 of the 63 minutes I went to that game. I barely remember it. But there was the famous image of him just sitting on the court at the end because he was so wiped out. But he was just a top 10 NBA player for six, seven years. And then Jalen Brown's my last guy. I think he belongs. You win a title, he wins finals MVP. the durability with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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How did you convince him to do it? Because you got some, I mean, you spent an entire week behind the scenes in an episode Jonah Hill hosted last decade, but also it just seemed like you got a lot of Lauren time, which is pretty unusual.

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The fact that in the 2020s, this team is just relevant year after year because of the Tatum-Brown connection. I think he has to be in there. So toughest cuts for me, Paul Silas, Dennis Johnson, Cedric Maxwell, Ray Allen, Don Nelson, Casey Jones. Red Auerbach as the coach. That's all I got for you. That's my Celtics pyramid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was shocked that he let you hang by his side for an entire show like that, especially if they're having pretty candid conversations about Jonah Hill was the host that week and the psychology of getting a host to either buy into a sketch or sometimes like him not wanting to promote mid-90s. Lauren didn't want to promote it, even though Jonah Hill had this movie he directed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's like, we don't do directors. We only do actors. But all the little tidbits you got from that, I just couldn't believe... he allowed, he allowed you in that inner circle. But do you think part of it was because he knew the book was coming out so much later than that episode that it was okay? Like if he had done it and it had just all run like a week later, I think that would have been weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But seven years later, it seemed okay. Cause there's a lot of other stuff in there too. Like they're having problems with Leslie Jones that week. And she's hitting that point where she's probably outgrown the show and everybody's realizing it. But You had all this stuff in there that after seven years, it seemed more benevolent than maybe in 2018.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Coming up, gonna talk basketball with Kyle Mann and we are gonna talk Lorne Michaels with his biographer. It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Crash. We are going to do another Oscar winner. this coming Monday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, because if you go back to the 80s and there was that great book that Hill and Weingrad wrote about the first 10 years of the show. And as they're finishing that up,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Woodward comes out with the book about Belushi and they talk about in the Saturday Night Live book that came out about the 10 years, like there was a chill with those guys because they felt like they were burned by the Belushi book. They'd given Woodward all this access and then he just steered the book toward basically the cocaine downfall of Belushi.

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And it seemed like they were, they basically made it seem like Lauren kind of scaled back right at the end. And he hasn't really done anything since. And I was wondering like, did he feel like, All right. Was it because you even have a quote in the book about basically he's like the less talking you do about how well you're doing, the better off you are, which I thought was interesting.

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So you can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify, check out our ringer movies, YouTube channel as well. That's also where Sean fantasy will be going live with his big picture crew right after the Oscars on Sunday night on his big picture podcast, which is also available as a video on Spotify. Uh, we're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. I felt that same way when he let me do the pod in his office. I think he knew, like, I love the show and, you know, it meant a lot to me. And I had a lot of history with it. What struck me when I interviewed him, first of all, his recall is amazing. Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was really surprised by just how specifically he could remember stuff going back to the seventies and eighties, like it happened yesterday. But the thing that you mentioned earlier about how this book could be like a, almost like a, like a business class for management. That was his sense of

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how to direct people, how to nudge people, the different points of a career you hit, um, knowing what the shelf life is of a relationship with somebody and whether they're going to leave or actually whether they're going to stay under the umbrella and just kind of stay there or they're just going to go. And are they going to come back?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It seems like he's probably put more thought into this than just about anybody. Cause a lot of people have managed successful companies and,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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not a lot of people have managed a successful company that also has to do with all the things that come with fame and managers and agents and the temptations and, you know, whether you stay loyal to the infrastructure of the show or you leave and you do something else. And it just felt like he had put like an extraordinary amount of thought into it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And that was one of the things I loved about your book is like, it's really in there. Like you really feel like all these different examples of like, it's time for them to go or they're going to find out the hard way that they shouldn't have left. Like he, it just seems like that's like one of the legacies of Lauren basically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But it's the thing, like if it lasts more than 15 minutes, you just stay an asshole or you had some quote like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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30 on 30 lives on our profit boost token, which we're doing every Friday, the rest of the way, I think, except for March Madness. You can bet on any 30 plus point score you want on Fridays. I tweet out my picks. I love this because I love just looking at the, the matchups, how many teams, uh, if you played four games in five nights, any of that stuff, and just try to guess who's going to go off.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Just like, oh, I learned this from Flip Wilson. Oh, I learned this from Lily Tom and he just takes it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, you did a good job with this because there's a couple eras with that. Where he just trusts the infrastructure and that there's going to be upheaval above him. And if he could just kind of hold on to the steering wheel. And the thing he says over and over again to people is you just got to stay in the air. You just got to keep it going. How do I stay on?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because the most famous stage for this was probably the Don Ulmer era, the mid-90s.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's trying to get rid of the show. And Lorne could have escalated it, turned it into nuclear war, and maybe he gets bounced. But he just kind of...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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So be sure to claim the PBT. Place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Don't forget about TheRinger.com. Don't forget about Celtic City premiering Monday night, March 3rd on HBO and Max. And we're going to have it every week for the next nine. So buckle up because it's a really good one. Coming up on this podcast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, you have a couple good stories about the shelf life of the moment you have. One of them was the Smothers Brothers, right? Where it's like they were cool and then you fade, you turn into something else. He could feel it probably happened in the early 80s when Letterman became the cool show, which you talked about too. SNL is all of a sudden a little late and Letterman is now the new person.

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I mean, one of the great things about this book, I knew so little about that five-year stretch when he wasn't on SNL. And just like grabbing all of these different ideas and things and really none of them worked out other than just getting Broadway video to buy a bunch of IP from the show, which turned out to be really smart financially, but all the creative stuff, none of it really worked out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But it also, I mean, you laid out part of why he went back to SNL in 1985 is it didn't seem like he totally knew what to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And this was like the one thing that he knew he was good at and he had tried all these other things and it just never totally fit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, we should mention the show's probably dying if he doesn't come back. Yes, they were going to yank it. They were going to cancel it. He's got that guilt trip part of it, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm going to talk to Kyle Mann, our old friend from The Ringer, about Cooper Flag. It's time. It's late February. We got to do it. And we're going to talk about a bunch of NBA trends and some other stuff as well. And then Susan Morrison, who wrote the definitive Lorne Michaels biography that came out last week. I loved it. I just made her come on. We spent an hour and just talked about Lorne.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I liked how you laid that out, that some people, their weakness is they can't stop tinkering with something. And it could be anything, right? It could be a magazine feature you're editing. It could be documentary. It could just somebody that never feels like it's done and they can't make final decisions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But when you're out on Saturday, 1130, one of my favorite things about your book was that process of going between dress rehearsal, And and you laid out everything that happened in that Jonah Hill show from dress rehearsal. Yeah. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So when they go live, when Lauren turns into like a different human and he's just like, all right, here's what we and it's like the one time all week where he's just he has to make decisions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, one thing that was, and I'd never really thought about it correctly until I read what you wrote, but like, I never thought of all the factors. I would always think like, Oh, he'll just pick the seven funniest things, but the stuff he's weighing about, like, is this cast member and the cast too much? Um, Did the audience respond in the dress rehearsal?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Are we going to have the right amount of energy in this part of the show? So he's like he's on some different plane that it seems like only he can see this, which makes me wonder how anybody can take that job after even though he's 80. Right. But like, how do you come in? And there are all these other factors beyond just what's funny, what's not funny.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now, maybe somebody would just approach it completely differently and be fine. But I just hadn't thought about it before.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I had a great time. So that's the podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. J. Kyle Mann is here from The Ringer. Hasn't been on in a while. Missed talking hoops with him. I was waiting to pull the Cooper flag ripcord with him. And then this week, Jim Boeheim compared him to Larry Bird. And I was like, all right, let's officially have the combo.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's just, so the whole week is about him peaking for that hour. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, one of the great things about that week you spent with the show was the show that's in dress rehearsal and then gets the sketch that gets bumped is this Beavis and Butthead sketch that they couldn't figure out. And then they end up doing it with Ryan Gosling last season. And it's one of the best shows of the decade. And it's like, holy shit, that's the same sketch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, they must have like 10 of those a year where they're like, I can't believe he didn't pick that one. Let's just like save it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right, right, right. Yeah, there's reasons he didn't do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Well, I mean, going through the years, One thing I appreciated was he was really, really grateful for some cast members that popped up at the right times. And the guy that he really effusively praised was Dana Carvey, who I still feel like is the most underrated star of the 50 years. He doesn't get mentioned in the Mount Rushmore, but he should.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he was basically... Lauren has these different quotes. She was like, this guy was a machine. This guy could do everything. We were able to ride him for the late 80s, basically. And it seems like... He felt that way about Ackroyd. He felt that he wasn't there for Eddie Murphy, but Eddie's in there. Will Ferrell was like that. Was there anybody else that he talked about where it was just clear?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Lauren was like, this is a Mount Rushmore guy for me or lady.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right, he's a force of nature. Well, you had that great thing about Ackroyd about how if they needed to do the sketch in three minutes instead of three and a half, he would talk faster to make them move it along.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It is about eight decades, how they intersect with the NBA and the city of Boston. and America and all the great players and robberies and feuds. And we're all really proud of it. So Monday, March 3rd, it's coming. In the meantime, I have a little pyramid for you. Celtics pyramid. I narrowed it to 15 players and we're gonna do it right now. Here it is. 15 players. And the catch is,

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Right. Hayter said once to me that the unbelievable thing about her was every single character she ever did was slightly different than there was no like, Oh, I'll do this and I'll just have a wig on. It was like, each thing was slightly different than the other thing. Like she was just re just inventing new people each time, which they were like, how does she do that?

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Yeah, I'm with you. I did my all-time cast, and she was the one... That was like one of the toughest cuts for me. Because I just feel like for four or five years, she was... It could do anything. I also like the people that can sing and perform and do sketches and do characters. There's some sort of total package thing that... I think only a few of them have really pulled off.

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I was going to wait until we got to March Madness, but now I couldn't even make it out of February. He's gotten better every week. The highlights have been fun. The game situations have been fun. It's crazy that he's only 18 years old and is the all around guy that he's already seems like he's becoming a Duke. I think people are raising their ceilings to him. I hate the word generational.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, we're going to take a break and come back and I want to talk about Lauren as Confucius. Okay. All right. Lauren as Confucius, which seems to be a recurring theme with everybody who's been in his orbit. He just dropped shit. Like I, I just, I took down some couple of things from your book that I screenshotted. He was talking about Belushi taking Chevy Chase's overnight fame, the hardest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he said, there's a certain kind of person who, if they're not famous by 26, they're going to burst into flames. Yeah. Which I thought was like, yeah, he's, he's probably seen that too. These people that come on the show and they're like so anxious to have it all happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But it seems like he seems to feel like, except for the rare exceptions, like Carvey, you almost need two years on the show before you can become who you are. Like what, what did you find out when you're researching the book? Like what's the, what's the arc of a cast member to actually be really good on the show?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Well, then there's someone like Kristen Wiig comes in and she's just immediately, you could tell she's going to be on the show for seven years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the week I was there... Eddie Murphy did that too with Raheem Abdul-Muhammad. The first time he did that, that was it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It feels like it's getting thrown around too much. I think a better word is just unique. There's just not prospects like this anymore who are as good on both ends and as additive all over the place. And I'm trying to debate how excited to get about this because, as you know, these are my type of players. I'm just trying to make everyone better. I'm just super competitive. How can I fit in?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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the one I mean this is another one we was talking about Chevy Chase when he said the idea that you could feel things for somebody and then you run out of it I realized so people burn out of relationships and he said that about he said that about a family member but he was talking about Chevy Chase like sometimes the professional relationship it just is what it is it's supposed to be four five six years and then it's over and that's it's like real life

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the fame back then too, it's 30 million people watching the show potentially on a Saturday night. It's just different level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think that's one of the reasons I connect with the... the whole structure of the show because it's a lot like sports.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You have to constantly think about like, all right, this person's taken off. I probably only have them for two more years. Now I got to develop a bench behind them. Another thing that I loved, I should have mentioned this three minutes ago, but his hatred of agents and managers and how... how just their agenda doesn't align.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, all they're doing is just trying to get whoever the most amount of money possible. Yeah, they don't care about career. They don't care about relationships and how he tries to navigate that. But it's like one of the few things he can't hide his contempt for, which is like these people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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These are my favorite guys. So how excited do I get, Kyle, man?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Well, yeah, it's like a live sporting event. Well, you had stuff in there about how a compliment from him is... It's rare. So when you get one, it means something. But it is... The cast members that succeed the best, I've talked about this, it's like a basketball team where... When you play basketball, it's not just about, oh, clear out, I'm going to score.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like you're trying to make other people better. You're trying to connect with people. You're trying to move without the ball and set picks. And those are the people that always do best on the show. Here's another Lauren quote. The trouble with a thankless job is that no one thanks you. But you could put the shit in like fortune cookies.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And he talked about why he's devoted to the show. When it takes every ounce of my strength to get it on and there's nothing but resistance and nobody seems to give a fuck, then I want out because you can only give up your life for something greater than you. So far, it's been worth it. Now he's 80 and he's still giving up his life for the show. But there's other reasons for that, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like the moment he's not running SNL, you're not getting your calls returned in quite the same way. Like there's a power that comes with the show that I think he's aware of.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He had a story about that you have in the book that I'd never heard about when Ray Charles was on the show. And he was going to be reunited with all these people that he had done all this great stuff with. And he's like, are you excited to see them? And Ray Charles said, most of them owe me money and wasn't excited at all. And he's like, all right, I'm going to tuck that story away too. Exactly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Down the road, you know, these special relationships I allegedly have might not be so special 20 years from now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Well, and also when he went, when he stopped doing SNL after the first five years, you have a thing about, yeah, the phone's not quite ringing. Yeah. The same way. There's some Conan O'Brien stuff in this book that I've believed and felt for a while that you really got into.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And, you know, not like in a New York Post page six kind of way, but it was, you know, that he was the one person who did The Tonight Show and he moved to L.A. and he kind of left Lauren out of it, which has been atypical for everybody who's passed through the universe. And it seems it seemed a little chilly. Could you feel that when you were reporting it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But became a really fun performer on the show in his own weird way, which you covered nicely. He became a character somehow. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, but they also broke the rule where he found out from somebody else, not them, which seems like the one way to really cross Lorne.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, and I said this at the time when all that was happening because we were doing podcasts about it. I just don't think what happens to Conan happens if Lauren's involved. He was too powerful and he meant too much to NBC. And if like the whole Leno, it just wouldn't happen. I think Conan's protected.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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A couple other things that I loved. When he brought Rob Lowe in for Wayne's World, he likes to hire people who've just had a flop because they work twice as hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Conan said about Lorne, A lot of people, myself, this is to you. A lot of people, myself included, think that Lauren has a secret and Lauren has made a career out of letting people think he has a secret. I think Lauren's real secret was to communicate to me, you have to figure out this show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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He's basically saying, I actually don't think Lauren has the secret, but he'll have like a really good thought starter that you can then take and run with it. That's how I interpreted that, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's that they just trust his take on, if he's really passionate about one thing, they'll trust him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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You had a lot in the book about the imitation game with Lauren, which has started like, God only knows since the seventies and, um, and how aware Lauren is of it and how many different iterations they were and all these different, you know, the writers would have their thing and then Bill Hader would have his thing and it would just go on and Carvey and all that stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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And Lauren would just seems like he's fine with it. Right. Cause you make fun of the boss. That's what happens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When do you think he realized that he was just going to be on the show and this was it? Like what year? It was somewhere between probably late 80s, early 90s where he just, all right, this is my life. This is what I'm doing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And a New York institution too, like simultaneously, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Even me, I hate New York. And even that, I remember rooting for the Yankees in the playoffs, hoping they'd get one for the city.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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It's interesting because when they missed the moment, which I think, and you wrote in the book that after Trump got elected, when the way they started the show, it just didn't work. I didn't think it worked in the moment. I think people behind the scenes didn't feel like it worked. And now I don't think anybody looks back and thinks, oh, what a great moment.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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A couple other things you were talking about in beats when she came back for the, uh, anniversary show. And he's kind of saying like, Oh, her career didn't kind of go the way maybe she thought it was going to go. And he said, um, you were like so many others who started the show beats. Michael said, didn't understand heat. They didn't understand that you're hot for about two or three years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And if nothing else happens, you go to the back of the line again, which it seems like he was painfully aware of with himself too. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What's the most fair criticism you heard from him, from the people who were interviewing? That was like a recurring criticism.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right, he paid for funerals. He paid for Michael McDonaghy's funeral, even though he didn't like him. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you're dealing with the ambitious people in their twenties and thirties. I mean, I'm sure I look back at some of the stuff I did like way back when I'm like, God damn it. Why did I do that? Yeah. And I'm sure they have a lot of those moments, especially a pressure cooker where it's Hunger Games every week. Everyone's pitted against each other. He said, you have this near the end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You can't spend the last half of your life watching the first half of your life, which is how he felt about nostalgia. Is that one of the reasons he's still working at age 80?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the biggest thing that's helped him is that there's hasn't been a kick-ass threat competitor to come in. And I always thought Netflix, I just can't believe Netflix hasn't challenged him yet, but I think it's because Sarandos loves the show so much. He just doesn't want to challenge.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Well, and comedy too. They're like at the, you know, they have this whole Netflix is a joke week out here. And the one thing that's missing is like an SNL type show, but I just don't think they're doing it until Lauren leaves.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Well, congrats on the book. I had you for an hour. I could have gone longer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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I thought it was so enjoyable because I'm so fascinated by him. But the management and perspective on success and loyalty and all that stuff, I just thought it was really cool. I love the way he laid it out. And the behind the scenes stuff with that Joan Hill show was just awesome. Like as a diehard SNL person, like I just thought it was so interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Cooper Flaggasm, NBA Trends, Lorne Michaels Stories, and a Celtics Pyramid With J. Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison

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Well, congrats. Go get the book. Thank you. Thank you. Good to see you. All right. That's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Mann and Susan Morrison. Thanks to Kyle and Gahal and Saruti. As always, don't forget, you can watch this as a video on Spotify. You can watch it on YouTube, on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can watch all of our rewatchable stuff on the Ringer Movies channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we have Celtics City, Get Ready, Monday night, March 3rd, HBO and Max, episode one, a nine-week journey about the Celtics and basketball and America and Boston and life. So that's happening. Enjoy the weekend. I'll see you with Priscilla on Sunday afternoon. We're going to tape, I think, right after the Denver Celtics game, which should be a barn burner. So enjoy the weekend. See you then.

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Yeah, if you're creating a stretch forward guy for the whatever, however we play basketball now, it would probably look something like this, right? Maybe you'd make him an inch taller. What is he, six, seven and a half without sneakers?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. So maybe you'd add an inch there, but he's got the long arms. But this is everything you want for somebody next to some sort of big man who could have his hands around the rim and... and do all that stuff. When you try to compare them to people, Bird is the obvious one that everyone keeps like Bayham did just because it's a white guy who does a lot of stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's more Tatum with me than I think maybe, and maybe there's a Duke parallel with them too, but the way the Celtics use Tatum now as a point forward who can defend all these different positions on defense. I feel like that's going to be Flagg's destiny.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The difference is when Tatum came into the league, we knew he had a chance to be like a special player, but there were so many things that still needed to happen with him. He was a scorer. He felt a little Durant-ish. But there wasn't any semblance of the passing game that he has now or the defensive level that he's gone up to or even how much better of a rebounder he is.

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It has to be the Celtics version of them. So this isn't like Kevin Garnett. I'm not taking Kevin Garnett's whole career. It's just Kevin Garnett on the Celtics. Anyway, pyramid. Top level. One guy, Bill Russell. I have him as the number three all-time guy. 11 of 13 titles. The most important on and off court NBA star ever. Relevant. Greatest winner in the history of sports. Also relevant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Flag's kind of already doing all those things, and I just don't know what he looks like when he's 25. Because I assume he's just going to keep working as three point shot and eventually he'll just be like a 40 to 45 percent three point shooter. I assume he'll add a couple of low post things. I assume he'll get really good at passing out of double teams.

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But for the most part, to be this close to a finished product at age 18 from a skill standpoint, that's what's so unusual, I think.

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Yeah, he got indoctrinated in the 86 Celts highlights from his great mom. One of the great moms of the last 40 years just showing him highlights.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, they would be like driving in the car watching like a DVD player and she had like old Celtic games because she wanted them to play like that.

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The Ringer Sunday pregame show is my favorite Sunday morning show. You can watch it on YouTube TV. Just subscribe to it on YouTube TV. It pops up at 11 a.m. ET, 8 a.m. PT. You can watch it on FanDuel TV. You can watch it on FanDuel's Fast Channel as well. JJ, Raheem, House, Cousin Sal. For an hour and a half, breaking down all the games that are about to happen in the NFL on Sundays.

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If you're Houston and you can turn Fred VanVleet in your picks and Terry Easton in a Fox, you're doing it. If you're San Antonio... and you have a chance to add Fox to your mix, and you think you can resign him and put him with Wemby and Castle and some of your swings, and you just give up the pick strobe you have, you're probably thinking about that.

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But to get a top 15 guy who's a point guard who's in his prime, this is about as interesting of a trade piece as we've had, not counting when Durant suddenly becomes available, but a younger guy on his way up, like... I don't know. You thinking for DC? We trade all your picks? No. Five picks to Jordan Poole plus seven swaps? Oh, no.

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It's not a this season play as much as we now have a guy. We need a perimeter guy, preferably a guard, somebody who can handle his business, run the team, play off Wemby, who's like a clear, awesome number two. I mean, Fox is about, he's a top 20 player. That's about as good of a number two as you're going to get. Right. And he's available. Potentially. If I was the Kings, I wouldn't trade him.

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I would be like, no, we're not. We're keeping you. Sorry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They have a DeRozan issue, though. I think they they might have bought a car that they might have. The odometer was turned back on. Yeah. Happens sometimes. It was like, I thought this car had 95,000 miles on it. Maybe it was 195,000.

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I think he'd be gone already if there was a trade. I just don't think there's a trade. And the most notable thing that seems to have happened in the last... couple, maybe the last week or so, is that Houston doesn't seem interested in him. They're like, we're good.

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Kuzma being in any trade rumors is hilarious. You've been watching him. I don't know what his trade value is, but I'm guessing it's low.

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If you can get a version out of him that hasn't existed for two years. Yes. So the Warriors have been mentioned with Butler. And I just, I don't know what the point is house because I just don't know if that's making a huge difference for them. You could talk yourself in a curry dream on a Butler, the old guys, let's make a run. But I, I just think the league's too good. They started out strong.

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They've gone the other way. They have a lot of like tradable pieces that have the minutes are all over the place, but he healed now all of a sudden scores five points a game. Podzemski is in the same asset. So. I don't know why Miami would want their stuff or want to pay Kaminga however much. I don't know what else. You had under for them, right?

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Yeah. And there's a, I think we talked about this before the year. We were trying to figure out overrunners with the West. There were so many good teams. Some teams are just going to end up not being happy. And right now it's Sacramento and it's Golden State. And San Antonio is a little better than we thought. Denver is a little worse than we thought. Minnesota is a little worse than we thought.

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But we knew it was going to be some... The NFL was way more easy to figure out this year, I think, than the NBA. The Celtics, you went under, I went over. And I am not going to... overreact to anything with the Celtics yet. Um, you were on it a little more about how hard it is to repeat. That was part of your under case, right?

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Yeah. Well, so glass half full, Tatum and Brown are healthy. Athletically, physically, they seem great. Brown's a little hero, probably this year. Their shooting stats are down with him a little. I haven't loved that. There's little stuff I don't love, but nothing I'm super concerned about. Like they lost to Orlando on Monday night. this depleted zombie magic team. Orlando played great.

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As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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I watched the game. The Celtics tried hard. They played well. Orlando just played awesome. They made big shots. They were super feisty. They were really fighting, and it was a really good game. It was an okay loss. The Philly game yesterday, that was Philly treated like a game seven. They came in, they really wanted to prove something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They couldn't have played harder and the Celtics couldn't match it. And, you know, I'm not, I'm not worried about that either. I think White's has been the same all month. Holiday was hurt. Porzingis keeps getting these dumb little injuries. Pritchard sometimes just doesn't show up. Yesterday, he sucked. I'm not going to really evaluate the Celtics team until the West Coast trip next month.

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That's all we'll know. All right. That's when we'll, we'll have a feeling for them. I don't love that they're four back from the calves, but, uh, but yeah, that's, so those are the big NBA storylines to me is just Milwaukee's better. Like Milwaukee, I think has moved back into contender ish kind of feeling Denver clearly needs to do something. And I don't know what the fix is for them.

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Um, Phoenix, I guess is the one kind of what's going on with this team. Um, that we thought was a contender. And I just say, it just seems like they have the worst centers in the league and they can't keep these guys in the same court.

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But, uh, but for the most part, I don't, I don't think there's been any, any major surprises this year, other than Minnesota being as bad as, as they've been, even though they won yesterday.

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1499.415

I think you and Rosillo both did. Oh, great job. Yeah, the surprises were Houston, Memphis, Clippers, and then just San Antonio being a 500 team. I'm still not If it's okay, I'm still a little dubious of the Clippers. They're only 17 and 13. I mean, it is okay, yeah. They're only 17 and 13, and they put a lot on Harden.

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1520.574

I also think the way the NBA did this NBA Cup schedule combined with the Christmas schedule, Which, hey, newsflash, I'm going to criticize the NBA again. I just think they've completely mangled all of this. Like, why aren't there Christmas Eve games? Why are they just punting on a day where there's no sports? Why are they punting on these days when there's clearly no sports?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When instead of like they load up the Monday, there's like 14 games on Monday. You can't even watch them keep track of anything. And then Tuesday, nothing.

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We did that on Spotify as a video podcast, so you can watch it on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Kind of weird. Yeah. So the reason I bring that up with the Clippers is the way they've structured this December thing, I think it's been good for the old guys. You know, like people like LeBron, Harding, Curry, you're not playing like four and seven. You're not playing five and eight. You're not, uh, you're not having these back to backs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1590.203

You're not nursing these little injuries because you're not playing that much basketball. But now we're about to hit this stretch, especially when we get to January. where the schedule just gets really hard and it's going to advantage the young guys. It's going to advantage a team like San Antonio that has Webby and Castle and Vassell and all these young dudes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1607.612

And I think it's going to hurt a team like the Clippers because the amount of offensive responsibility they're putting on Harden I don't know if it's sustainable once we get into these 16 games in 29 days kind of territory before February. So I'm watching that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think it's good for teams like Oklahoma City, Houston, Memphis, even a team like the Celtics that are built around two younger guys, Cleveland, you know. But then you look at a team like Orlando, 19 and 12, but really depleted. And once you're depleted and you get into these schedule things, kind of a nightmare. Milwaukee, it's good for it because Giannis is an alien.

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Atlanta, it's good for it because they're built around all these young guys. Indiana, a team that we bet on earlier this week. I think it's good for them. So anyway, I would watch out. If you had to pick a final, who would it be?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Hope you had an awesome holiday. The sports was really fun. We were about to talk about all the basketball and the rest of the million dollar picks, which we did a little early batch, me and house on Tuesday for YouTube only. Probably should have given more of a heads up on that, but we wanted to get some Christmas picks in. We did really well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1715.136

Well, we'll see because they have, I mean, they have a pretty, they have a wet, they have a West coast trip coming up and then a whole bunch of games in January. I mean, they just in January from January 1st to the 19th, They have 11 games and that's not counting two games at the end of December too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1732.928

So, you know, the way they're constructed, there's no way Embiid's going to play more than half of those games, I would assume. I don't love what I've seen from Paul George. I'd like to throw my voice into that chorus. Just doesn't look as comfortable. He doesn't seem 100% healthy to me. So I want to wait a month on that. But competitively, they looked really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1751.699

The Caleb Martin is just like a Celtics killer at this point. I don't know what it is about Boston, but he rises to the occasion on it. So their season looked dead. Now they're 11 and 17. The problem for them is they have no room for error. That's right. You know, no more margin for error at all. Yeah. Like that, like one more maxi three week ankle sprain or indeed goes out for a month.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1772.898

And all of a sudden you're looking at like the 10th playoff spot. Cause there's teams like Chicago and Detroit haven't really gone away. And I don't know if those are trade teams or not. Everyone thinks Chicago is, but I don't, they're not gonna be able to trade Levine. Who's taking Levine at that money.

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Somebody desperate enough. Maybe it's Vucevic. Sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm trying to think how they could hurt themselves. It would be trading one of those two guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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One thing that's a little different with the Lakers is Max Christie, who looked like a zero. He's actually been pretty good for them. for the last couple weeks. He's been okay. He's been passable. They can play him in crunch time. He might actually make an open shot. He can play defense a little bit, but it's something they didn't have a month ago. Anyway, all right, that's our NBA report.

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We're going to take a break, come back with Million Dollar Picks. Sometimes the basketball 30 points could be worth more than 30 points. And now you can get a 30% profit boost from the ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. We're teaming up with America's number one sports book to give you a 30% profit boost.

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1854.428

When you either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game, just go nuts. I'm looking at Friday's slate. I always tweet my picks on my Twitter account on Friday because I like to look on Friday morning, see who's playing, see what the matchups are. You can join me, ride my picks, or just make your own.

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1873.739

Look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app or head to fanduel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout this Friday. Don't miss your chance to find out how much more 30 can be worth with FanDuel's 30 on 30. And speaking of FanDuel, don't forget about the Ringer Sunday pregame show on FanDuel TV and FanDuel Fast Channel and on YouTube TV.

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Anyway, you must be 21 plus in president select states or 18 plus in president DC. Opt-in required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com.

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Now we're going to keep the magic going later in this podcast. After we talk hoops, after the very top, I'm going to talk about this Jimmy Butler, Miami situation for a second. And then last but not least, my daughter who always comes on near the end of every year to do her teen culture awards. And it's a bittersweet year because she's coming on.

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This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+. Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by a tyrannical twin, Roman emperors.

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1930.482

With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2. Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. All right, million dollar picks. We're already up house. We won $300,000 on Christmas Day. Thanks to the Ravens. Merry Christmas. And thanks to the Chiefs. And we still have a Seahawks bet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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We're taping this before the Seahawks game, but we have a Seahawks bet with Baltimore minus nine and a half adjusted. And the Seattle Moneyline, that was plus 312. So we could be up another like 155K after tonight. I like some of the games this week. I know you already did ringer gambling show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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1971.074

I didn't hear it yet because it's not up, but, um, the big game and the hardest one to figure out in a while. And I think the most even great matchup we've had all season is this Vikings Packers game in Minnesota and the Vikings. It's, it's around one, one and a half right now. It's Vikings one and a half. You can make really strong cases for each team. I think there's a lot of public.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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kind of love and affection for the Packers right now, which would make me a little nervous for them. Um, green Bay lost to them earlier in the year and green Bay is 10 and two in the last 12 weeks with two Detroit losses. And people are leaning green Bay in this house and we have to treat it like a playoff game means more to Minnesota. Cause if they can win this, They beat Detroit next week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2018.957

They're the one seed. Right. Green Bay's pretty locked into the five or six seed. Not sure it matters. Where are you leaning on this one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And this is the last year we're doing teen culture because this is the last holiday she's going to be a teenager. She turns 20 next year. So we had a lot of stuff to cover. It was very, very fun. We actually did it as a video piece this year too, which you'll eventually be able to watch on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel, along with all the other stuff we're doing on here. It's all next.

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That game was over. They were up like four touchdowns. And then there was a lot of garbage time stuff with green Bay and it, it kind of belatedly somewhat became a game, but not really. Yeah. Okay. It was a lot of end of the game. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I guess where I've landed in this game is if it was in green Bay, I would like green Bay. And cause it's in Minnesota. I like, I like Minnesota more. I just think these teams are dead even. Yeah. And you throw in the home field. There's one other piece with Minnesota though. First of all, I do think they're better than people realize. And we've talked about this a bunch on this podcast, but

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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they became a yeah, but team and we've had, yeah, but teams before that I thought was justified. Like there was that cousins Vikings team a couple of years ago that we were like, well, this team's not good. Well, this record's ridiculous. Look at it. They played the Vikings are eight. No with Hawkinson. Yes. Which I think matters. Yeah. The Vikings are sixth and DVO a green base. Third.

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The Vikings are second against the run. They're first in creating turnovers. They have a top five pass rush. But the thing I really like the most about them is these two receivers they have with Hawkinson. I always feel like they can get a drive if they need it. And if this game's in the fourth quarter in their home, I just like their chances to go down the field.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like one stat that I think is, I saw this and I was like, how is this the best total? But it is. They lead the league in least amount of percentage they've trailed when they're on offense in the game. They've only trailed for 22% of their snaps on offense. They've been trailing in the game, which basically means they're always ahead. They're always in charge.

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They're always in the lead, which is good for home. But then they also have the ability at the end of games to get a drive if they need it and to make a big play if they need it. And Green Bay is going to do cover too. Like they, their defense actually matches up pretty good with the Vikings. But I like this Vikings team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And to me, it's like, if you believe in this Vikings team, you kind of have to take them this week. So if you don't, you're basically saying, I don't believe in this team. I don't know. Do we go that far? Yeah, I think this is a playoff game. I do. I think this is playoff rules this week. I think we have to approach it like playoff manifesto.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm saying for Minnesota, it's a playoff game. They win this game. They have a chance to be the one seed. They play Detroit. There's also a conspiracy bill. Would you like to enter this for one second? Go ahead. There's no Sunday night week 18 NBC game right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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First, our friends from Pearl Jam. Recording this Thursday mid-afternoon, it was after I had already recorded the rest of the podcast, but something happened with Miami Heat and Jimmy Butler that I had to mention here at the top. House and I had talked about Jimmy a little bit later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's either Minnesota, Detroit or Rams, Seattle, which we might not get if the Rams just beat Arizona this week, which we're going to have coming up a million dollar picks. The only other possibility is Minnesota, Detroit, but Minnesota has to win this game. And if that doesn't happen, Now we're into... Who'd you have? Carolina versus Atlanta?

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Special guests. I pop on there from time to time. Playoffs were blown out. We're going to be Saturday, Sunday, the first two weeks. We're going to be live in LA on Saturday and Sunday in round one. So be ready. The Ringer, Sunday pregame show. Subscribe, follow, check it out. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel.

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How is that good to have Carolina-Atlanta as the last game of the season?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Carolina is itch to spunky, but go ahead. I just wonder, do they... Does Minnesota get some calls in this game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2347.248

Can't stay away. We have a big little nest egg of million-dollar picks, and this is the best game in a while. We have to put a bet on it. Go ahead. Let me give you something that I thought was interesting. Green Bay since week five. They're nine and two with two Detroit losses, right? Yeah. Here's who they beat. Matthew Stafford in week five with no Puka, no cup. Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2374.442

Kyler Murray, CJ Stroud, no Collins in that game. Trevor Lawrence barely beat him. He had his best game of the year through for 300 plus yards against them. They won by three. Caleb Williams. They were up, Chicago's up the whole game and should have won and then Green Bay won it late. Brandon Allen on San Francisco. Tua on cold weather on Thursday night Thanksgiving.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2403.926

Geno Smith and whatever the fuck was going on with the New Orleans quarterbacks last week. Those are all their wins. They haven't played anything remotely approaching Sam Darnold, Hawkinson, Addison and Jefferson and Aaron Jones. This is by far the best complete offense they've played. Now do Minnesota.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2423.729

Well, I know Minnesota is the same thing, but I'm saying you can't use that case against Minnesota and then not use it against Green Bay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2482.56

But that's the irony of this. Both teams' most impressive win the last like two and a half months with Seattle, who also might not be good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2522.167

Right? I don't think there's a wrong answer. I just feel like people have tilted more toward the Packers, and I feel like it's dead even. Well, Minnesota's favored. Well, they're at the minus one half because they're home. But I'm just saying. If this was in Green Bay, Green Bay would be minus one and a half over Minnesota.

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So we're taping this at 1117 Pacific time. Yeah. December 26th, Thursday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2569.335

The line is completely flipped. It's now Green Bay minus one and a half over Minnesota. So somebody stepped in. That's a syndicate play. That's a syndicate play. So the line moves three points. And now it's Minnesota minus 102 plus 1.5. and Green Bay minus 116. Somebody's taking a stand.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you think Green Bay is going to get to minus two and a half?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

2610.503

Vikings being plus one and a half means they're now in tease territory.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

2617.326

Well, we can do it right away. We're taping million dollar picks as we speak. Good point. Any interest in throwing them in with the Miami Dolphins in Cleveland? Mm-hmm. There's going to be rain. So you tease Miami down to... Miami down, or we could basically do... Yeah, tease Miami. What is Miami? Six and a half?

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262.384

We took out the part that isn't relevant anymore because Pat Riley came out and he said definitively, the Miami Heat are not trading Jimmy Butler. He's going to be on this team for the rest of the season. Came out and said it. Put it out in a statement so people could read it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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To a half? No, tease Miami down to Moneyline and do Miami plus seven and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2662.752

What I want to see is where Jameis is listed in terms of, did you read, I was on Brown's Reddit today, which is one of the darkest places in the internet. It's just absolutely brutal. There's even on Brown's Reddit, there's even, um, Uh, should we make a run at Kirk cousins this off season?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2680.648

That's a thread on Brown's Reddit. Oh yeah. It's dark, man. It's, it's some of the darkest shit you'll see. But, uh, Brown's Reddit was saying that apparently Jameis is hurt too. And if anything happens with DTR, it's Bailey Zappy time. Oh, well, now I'm feeling better. OK, now we can do Miami. Fine. Now we're good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's Bailey Zappi injured Jameis or it's DTR who has one touchdown and nine career picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2725.35

For some reason, you're worried about Jameis. To me, I'm not worried about Cleveland's offense in this game. I'm worried about the Dolphins in the rain just doing a classic Dolphins stink bomb.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the reason I brought them up for a teaser is just, You know, at some point, these teams, the franchises are kind of steering them toward a top five pick, right? I don't think the Giants want to win. The Raiders are stupid. They couldn't help themselves last week. But there's certain teams that I just feel like are good with not winning another game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Cleveland to me feels like one of them. Like if you're Cleveland, Bailey Zappi is the move this week. We had Bailey Zappi on the pads. He is not a competent quarterback. You want to put him out against Miami next week. You want to bench like, or you want to rest like a defensive starter who's a little banged up. Like you, there's subtle stuff you can do to make sure you don't win again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Because for sure, because there's a couple like Tennessee plays Jacksonville. Both those teams are three and 12. One of them are going to be four and 13 after four and 12 after that game. So Cleveland can jump up a spot there. The Pats might beat the Chargers for all we know. Like they they might be able to nudge up. Yeah, that was what I was thinking about. And plus, Miami really needs the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We don't see NBA teams do this that often, but I think it speaks to a bigger picture thing that we've discussed on this podcast a couple times now this month with this new first apron, second apron, how much harder it is to do trades. The NBA is starting to look a lot more like the NFL. It is so much harder to deal somebody during the season than it used to be, which is what Riley said.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're still in the playoff race. Yeah, still in the race for sure. So maybe, because I have another tease I want to do with the two LA teams. Okay. So maybe we'll mark down something with Vikings Dolphins just for fun. Next one, and I'm split on this one too, is Bengals Broncos. You said on the Ringer Gambling Show that you like Cincy at home, minus three, in what's going to be bad weather.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're kind of technically alive still. Denver...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was checking in with my buddy Gus. My buddy Gus, my only person in my life who truly knows the Broncos. And he was telling me when Moss got hurt, we're in major trouble. This guy, Levi Wallace is a disaster.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

2911.796

Levi Wallace has been cut. Released. He's not even on the team anymore. So long, Levi. Moss is back. So I feel like that. I know it's one guy, but I really feel like that's going to flip their secondary. He's an important guy. Yeah. There'd be no doubt. There's some other cases for them. Do you have more on your case? Because I was going to add some counters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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2938.724

Last six weeks, Denver's fifth in DVOA, despite some of the secondary stuff and despite some of the turnovers by Knicks. Cincinnati's 29th against the run, their defense. Cincinnati's 30th QB hits. So basically, this is the perfect team for Denver to play with Bo Nix with the way kind of how up and down they've been. This is a team that will not pressure him, hit him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're just not going to do anything. Denver's defense... They're first in hits, first in hurries. They're going to be able to pressure the Bengals' offensive line, not exactly like a juggernaut.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

2989.084

Well, then the Dallas game the week before, Dallas was going to beat them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

2994.769

Right? Dallas is going to beat them. And Dallas is pressuring them and doing stuff. So I look at Cincy's wins. Here are the quarterbacks. Have you done this? No. Quarterback Cincy beat this year. Andy Dalton. Danny Dimes. Deshaun Watson and Thompson Robinson. Same game because I think that was the one Watson got hurt. Minshew. Cooper Rush. Will Levis. Thompson Robinson. It's not great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

300.075

We're not dealing them during the season. We'll figure it out during the offseason. Butler's $48 million and then $52 million player option next year, which odds are he's going to exercise because nobody has cap space this summer. The only team is Brooklyn. He's going to go to Brooklyn. They're going to be rebuilding and just sign Jimmy Butler. I mean, it's conceivable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3023.744

I don't think since he's good is where I'm really landing. And I think we think they're good because Burrow's good. No other real aspect of their team is good other than the receivers and Burrow. Now you can make the counter case when they have Chase and Higgins together with Burrow. They've just been really good and been able to move the ball. I get it. But I kind of like the Denver plus three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3091.284

This one... This one I love. The all-LA money parlay. Yes, this is wonderful. Great. Rams, home for the Cardinals. All the Rams have to do is win, and they win the NFC West. Chargers at the Pats. All they have to do is win. They're minus four and a half. And there's some subtle cases against them, right? Their offense isn't that good. They have trouble getting first downs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3117.129

It's the type of team, even if they had a lead, Drake May in the second half, doing stuff. There's a Ladd-McConkie piece that I don't think can be undersold with the fact that the Pats had that pick, traded back three spots for a guy who basically doesn't play, who had played three snaps. McConkey's just him running a mock in this game is almost a lock.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3138.887

I don't know what the player props are for him, but chargers need the game. Rams need the game, and it just feels like a classic LA money parlay, and it's minus 114 on FanDuel, and I would like to partake.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

319.207

I just would have bet on it. And Pat Riley is looking big picture and looking at an NBA that now operates way more like the NFL, where it's way harder just to do big, complicated deals. And he didn't like the deals that were out there. And they clearly kicked the tires with a bunch of teams. Houston, I think, came out and said they weren't interested.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3220.194

I had the Colts. That goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is certain teams are just done winning games this season. The New York Giants are one of those teams. The Giants are like, we're out. We are done. We are done. It's a wrap. You had them in the Ringer Sunday pregame last year. Or last week. Last week, yeah. And I was choosing. It was dumb.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3240.769

I had already chosen Carolina as my underdog. No, it wasn't that bad. It was plus 350. Right, that's right. You knew within a quarter. It was like, oh, the Giants are done for the season. The Drew Locke pick six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3267.447

Anthony Richardson, I just can't get there. If there's any quarterback who's ready to just single-handedly kill all of our Week 17 parlays and teasers, it's him. So I just want to proceed with caution.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3284.684

Yeah. So a couple things with that Rams game really quick. Rams are sixth in DVOA last six weeks. Thanks to Aaron shots for that. They've won eight of their last 10. And I don't think people realize how grim this Cardinal situation got. Yeah. Missing both of their starting tackles on offense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3300.3

They're like, they're pulling practice squads in practice squad guys in that are now going to be starting for them. James Connor is hurt. Yeah. Play may not play. Their defense is falling apart. Hubbard had 152 yards last week. Carolina scored 36 on them. Sure did. It just is grim. And there's a reason the line is where it is. And, uh, cause initially I was like, Oh, cards upset baby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3324.26

And I looked at all the numbers. I was like, Oh my God, this is no way they're winning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3373.857

Chargers-Pats, the case for being nervous about this would be the Pats played well against Buffalo for about an hour and a half last week. I would just point you to 10 horribly game-managed, coached, executed plays. They can't help themselves. They surprisingly did not have a lot of penalties last week. Those penalties will come back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

338.321

I think they're holding out for Darren Fox, which House and I talk about in a second. But you go around that Golden State. What's the point of them trading for Jimmy Butler? They're not even really a contender right now. And they're going to give up all these assets so they can try to be the fifth best team in the West on a very short window. I'm not doing that if I'm Golden State.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3394.652

The Pats are just incapable of playing three good hours in a row. So for them to beat the Chargers, the Chargers would really have to fuck the game up. And I don't know if they're a fuck the game up team. I mean, that would be, you would have Jared Mayo beating Jim Harbaugh. You would have that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3411.551

You would have a team that would decide in week 17, maybe we shouldn't throw backward passes inside our own 10. Maybe we should punt down 10 with eight minutes left. Something would have to dramatically change with the penalties, the coaching, the execution. I could see them potentially backdoor covering that minus four and a half, but I did not see them winning. Yeah, I'm good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3435.207

We're on the same page. All right. And then the last one I want to talk about, you mentioned the Colts Giants. I mean, we don't need to talk about that. Eagles Cowboys, that line has dropped too. It was 10, nine and a half all week. Now it's seven and a half on FanDuel. And I had had a bet that I mailed you last night or this morning. Oh, hold on. I see six and a half. Oh, shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3458.398

It's still dropping, huh? Something's going on. Yeah, six and a half. Well, Hertz might not play is what's going on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3467.523

Yeah. I had wanted to do an alternate, um, alternate bet with Dallas to four and a half when it was nine and a half, it was like plus one 72. That's now plus one 26. Um, which I still like more than the six and a half. But, um, so if we had the Cowboys, um, And we do an over of like, what, 37 and a half? I don't know. What are you thinking?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3510.048

Do you think all the value's gone because of the Hertz thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

357.519

I'm sure Phoenix would talk about Bradley Beal for Jimmy Butler, but why would Miami want to turn Jimmy Butler into Bradley Beal? Why would they want to do any of these trades? They already have somebody who... when he's pissed off and playing well, he's a top 30 guy. They're not just going to take more contracts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3580.535

Yes. Cause now we're talking that that's, those are the numbers. Okay, great. Yeah. I'm into that. That's a good one. Or doubt. Yeah. Cause I don't want to tease Dallas with another team. I want to confine it to the game. Great. Good. Yeah. Me either. That's fine. Dallas. That's like nothing better than the go beat Philly. Dallas plus 10 and a half. with the over of 30 and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3604.722

And Philly's done, right? There's nothing for them to play for. I think it would be insane for them to play Jalen Hurts. I don't understand why they would do that at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3614.594

I agree. All right, it's time. Million dollar picks. Part two, holiday week. We're already up $300,000. Plus, we have this Seahawks bet coming that we could win. All the Seahawks have to do is win on Thursday night and we're up another 155. Come on, Gino. Come on, Gino. Our big bet. We are doing an all LA parlay. The LA Rams to finish business against a cards team that is arrow pointing down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3640.248

Rams have been really good last six weeks. Rams just to beat the Cardinals. Just to beat them. That's it. Just all they have to do is win the game. parlayed with the LA Chargers in New England against my beloved New England Patriots, who are feisty but are incapable of playing well for three straight hours. Chargers Rams just have to win. Minus 114, house. Are we going big? We love LA.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3671.612

I've somehow figured out a way to be more furious that the Pats won this game and knocked themselves out of a top five pick. I don't want the Pats to win anymore. Let's just get weapons. Let's finish in the top two. And then we can trade back for a team that needs a quarterback and get a lot of assets from my guy, Drake May. Please don't win this game, Pats. We're putting $250,000 on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3691.085

Chargers, Rams, minus 114. We talked a lot about Bengals versus Denver and Cincinnati in the rain. Cincy minus three. Cincy with no good wins whatsoever. Cincy a team that just loves to shoot themselves in the foot. I'm going to take adjusted Broncos plus seven and a half. Oh, okay. And I'm going to put that with the Chargers and the Rams for 50K. That's plus 169, House. That's fine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3719.195

You want to be in business. You want to be in business with Bo Nix these nights. I'm not going to get away with that business. It's a Sean Payton, Denver. The secondary is good again. Like just a little sprinkle. Love it. Uh, two more that we like the Cowboys going against this Eagles team that Jalen hurts. We don't know what's happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3739.189

The line is dropping as we're taping the pot on Thursday morning. Uh, the line dropped from nine and a half to six and a half for the Cowboys plus six and a half. We're going to bring them back up to Cowboys plus 10 and a half over 30 and a half minus one 15 hundred K. That's fine. I mean, if you want to do smaller, that's fine too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

374.314

You know, you go around the league, like what if Sacramento wanted to make some crazy bid for him with DeRozan and Keegan Murray and a first round pick? Well, you know, do you want the Rosen's contract for the next couple of years after what we've seen from him this season? So you just look through the league and you can't find the trade. And I think that was the situation Miami was in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3771.708

Michael Parsons, the only guy with a podcast who's playing well. Only athlete podcast is actually succeeding at sports these days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3786.899

Yeah, what would happen if Jerry formed a media company and then just paid $100 million for the Michael Parsons podcast? That would be an interesting idea.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3798.542

Last one. Colts against the Giants. We both love the Colts. We do love the Colts. The Giants do not want to win football games anymore. They do not. They're good. They have told us. They're done. It's a wrap. It's a wrap. Colts first half game. They have to win the first half. They have to win the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3814.471

Combined with the Vikings plus seven and a half, because we have to have some sort of scratch on this incredible Vikings Green Bay game that we argue about. You like Green Bay a little bit more. I like the Vikings a little bit more. The line has shifted. It was Vikings minus one half all week. As we're taping this, it's Green Bay minus one and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3831.485

Now we're going to grab those Viking points, bring them up to plus seven and a half. That is minus 113. I would like to put 100K on that if we could.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3847.069

And then we also have this Dolphins game that we can completely stay away from. Dolphins against the Browns in the rain. Some Billy Zappy potential. Also two in bad weather. Dolphins need the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3862.793

probably a stay away i think it's a stay away okay i'm fine staying away from uh from the dolphins good so that's it and we should mention one of the reasons i like minnesota is because the nfl needs a very good week 18 sunday night game in minnesota detroit would do the trick collinsworth they'd have to hose him down well i can't wait to see him i haven't seen anything like this

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3904.673

That is a stay away. I wish you the best. Thank you. Anyway. We are up 1.764 million for the season pending the Seahawks game. And hopefully the LA Parlay will take us over the 2 million mark. Those are the Holiday Edition Part 2 Million Dollar Picks for Week 17. House, I hope you ate a lot yesterday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

392.795

Houston was the one team that made sense and it just didn't seem like they were interested in him. So I think Riley is trying to flip this. The narrative is so strong that something was going to happen. That he went the other way and he was like, no, he's going to be here the whole season. So now Jimmy knows he can't go anywhere.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3946.608

I have an Indian food place for you. Ooh. I have some wrinkles for you for this trip. What a parlay. Can you do salads for the week before you get here? I'll try my best. You got to like really clear the intestines. I'll try my best.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3962.217

I can't wait. How's great to see you. Happy belated Christmas. Happy holidays to all. This episode is brought to you by the White Lotus season three. One of my favorite shows, beautiful locations, twisted characters, unexpected scenarios. The White Lotus is going to Thailand. You know, I'm excited. I mean, we're doing prestige TV again, me, Mallory and Joanna Robinson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

3985.758

We're doing right after every show, putting a recap episode on the prestige TV, same luxury, new reservations for all of us. How are they going to make the show better? The answer is the show's great no matter where it is. I'm excited to be in a new country with our weird, mysterious, probably creepy White Lotus gang, but I love this show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4006.853

And you can watch a new season of the Emmy Award-winning HBO original series, The White Lotus, premiering February 16th at 9 p.m. on Max. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Winning is a great feeling, but let's be honest, it's even better with a prize like Michelob Ultra Superior Light Beer. And that's exactly what you'll get with Play You for an Ultra on DoorDash.

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4029.533

You can challenge your friends to a game racer match and send the winner a Michelob Ultra because Superior is always worth playing for. Participate and play you for an ultra and send the winner an ultra through DoorDash today. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser-Busch McGlobe Ultra Light Beer. St. Louis, Missouri. Must be 21 or older to order alcohol.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4052.543

Alcohol available only in select markets. All right. We are taping this the day after Christmas. It's an emotional time here on the BS pod. My daughter Zoe Simmons is here. We're doing the end of the year teen culture awards, which I think we've done every year for the last few years. We might have missed one. You've been doing this since, I don't know, you were 12, 13, something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4071.622

But this is the last year. You're 19. Next year, you're not a teenager.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4075.396

Yeah, no awards for next year. Really appreciate this one the way you have it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4079.38

No, we'll call it the 20-something awards next year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4085.586

What's going to happen to you? Teen culture awards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4091.511

So we call it the young woman awards? What do we call it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4096.836

We'll see if it figures itself out next year. For now, this is looking like it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

410.088

So if he could really just blow this up now, that's not great for him. That's going to make teams less excited to sign him this summer. It could veer the other way where now Jimmy's like, well, if I'm going to be here, I might as well make the best of it. He could start playing better. Other stuff might happen. There might be some teams, some star might get hurt. Some situation might go sideways.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4101.428

Thanks for putting no thought into that. All right. So end of the year awards. We have a whole bunch of categories. I'm just going to set you up. Most important category every year is the TV show of the year. What was it this year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4113.993

This year we selected Tell Me Lies as my TV show for the year. Reason being, this is probably the most emotional a show has ever made me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4125.516

Because it kind of depicts perfectly like a super toxic college relationship. I think it struck a chord within a lot of people my age, especially as a college student. And the show actually casted people that look like the age that they're supposed to be playing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4141.845

For me, that's the most important thing that a TV show can do. The people on the show have to look like the age that they're trying to play. That actually makes it a much more emotionally difficult situation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4155.953

Like sex lives in college girls. I'm not sure those girls look like college girls. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4159.237

I haven't even watched it yet because I've seen the cast and it's just like, this doesn't look like people that I'd be running into in my ethics class next week. Like this is not, these people are like the older people coming back to college trying to figure it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4171.385

So what? So tell me lies. There's a lot of sex in it. Let's be honest. It's not a show I would watch with you. That's okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4177.228

That's for sure. That's for sure. But with my girlfriends, my best friend from college, my roommate, we would sit there and wait for each episode to come out every week and watch it together with our like headphones individually and our computers and just like completely jaw on the floor every single time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4192.534

Oh wait, cause you don't have a TV. We don't have a TV. So you press play at the same time?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4196.376

We'd like sync it up. But it was, I mean, jaw-dropping every single episode. It just, it got so crazy. But the manipulation of the main character, Steven, that he does to his little girlfriend, Lucy, is like, he almost makes you think that you're crazy because of how good of a manipulator he is. But the show is incredible. And that was made true with, like, all the...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

42.03

Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets, who have the most yards, tons of same game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4221.05

attention it got on TikTok and they actually renewed it after they were going to cancel it before it got all the attention.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4232.639

Can you explain how TikTok saves a show? Because this is, and there's some other parts that we're going to talk about later with this, but TikTok taking a show either in a good way or a bad way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4244.065

It's weird because now that social media is such a prominent thing, even a shitty TV show can become super popular. Even a shitty song, like no matter what it is, if people will ban behind it, that's what makes a song or show successful. And I've been talking about it a lot with my friends and it feels like a lot of producers of TV shows and song makers or whatever it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4267.052

They're trying to appeal to the social media eye rather than the critics or the other people that actually like establish whether a show or a music video is good enough. It's more about like if you get the TikTok people behind you, that will make you successful.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4283.999

I mean, it's definitely made the content that's being put out there worse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4288.504

Because it's catered to all of these people that like have short attention spans or whatever it is. But this show caters exactly to people like me who found it through TikTok. I didn't even know about the show until I saw a little clip of it on TikTok and I binged through the whole thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

430.541

And then Miami in the early February can go crazy. Listen, we didn't think we were going to trade him. We thought he was going to be here all year, but then this offer happened and they cover their bases. But Pat Riley. He's, you know, he's, I think he's late seventies, early eighties. Now it's like that old Seinfeld joke when old people are just like, fuck it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4303.433

It checks a lot of Zoe boxes, including we go back and forth in the future and everybody's older and younger.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4309.877

Yeah. I like a little, a little time sequence, but it's, the show is phenomenal. It was easily my, my top number one show this year. I think as a college student, it, that really was what hit home for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4323.723

So that's great. So like when I was in college, 90210 hit home with all of us, which is a relative normal show. You're saying for your generation, a super toxic guy fucking with all these different people on the show. This is really resonating with your generation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4339.89

That sort of thing is like never been depicted. And it also uses social media as a tactic of manipulation that the main character uses, which a lot of TV shows don't incorporate social media.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4351.477

It's kind of like a blacklisted, like you can't do it because that will take the characters out of the show, whatever. But people like me, we're always on our phones. Like it's not realistic to have a TV show that doesn't incorporate like the use of manipulative text messages or Snapchats or whatever it is. And like this show actually has that. Or non-texting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4369.729

Or ghosting. Or being ghosted. So it's like this is the most realistic depiction of like a toxic college relationship, which is why I loved it so much.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4379.012

Do you think you like toxic relationship shows because all of your relationships have been non-toxic and pretty normal?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4384.053

I think so. It's like, oh, this is what it's like. But I know it hit home for a lot of people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4388.655

All right. So that's TV show of the year. Favorite content of the year. Do you want me to read the list and you can just go? Yeah, go ahead. So some of this has to do with shows you binged.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4400.648

Because you like binging shows. Right. You like either you're doing homework while a show's on. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4408.6

Well, number one is the Gilmore Girls, which you finally stumbled into. What was it about this show?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4414.236

Well, I always I stayed away from it because I knew I would love it. I tried to start it a few different times and was kind of bored while watching it. But this year, again, my roommate was like, you need to watch this show. You will love it. So I sat myself down and I watched the first season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4429.18

The first season wasn't the most interesting because Rory, the main character, was like a fresh high schooler. in New Haven, Connecticut. And I was like, what is this? This is not my jam at all. But then as the show continues on, it kind of just, it feels like a warm hug is how I describe it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4445.609

I think a lot of Gilmore Girls lovers would describe the show as just like a warm, comforting, like when you're in need of feeling like you're around family or you just need your spirits uplifted, that's where you go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4464.326

What would be your mom-daughter show? Ours would be a lot more realistic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4468.329

The thing about Gilmore Girls is like it's supposed to be a perfect world. And Lorelai had Rory when she was like 16 years old. So there's a really short age gap between them, which makes their relationship more like sister to sister. But the show itself is incredible. It's definitely unrealistic, but it kept me interested for seven seasons. Didn't it stay too long, though?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4493.069

Yeah, I mean, some parts could have been cut out, but honestly, the last two seasons were my favorites because Roy was... in college going through college, which once again is my favorite form of TV show when the main character is going through college. And she was having boyfriends and all these different things and whatever. So I actually liked the show as it progressed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

451.811

And they just start backing out of the driveway and they don't, uh, they don't care if somebody's coming back and out of the driveway. Here I come. Pat Riley's been at this point for a while. And it's really fun to watch somebody like that run an NBA team. He had obviously had it with these Butler trade rumors and, and just was like, you know what? There's no good trade for this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4511.819

But I loved Gilmore Girls just as something to fall back on when college days were getting hard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4521.015

I don't like when you watch shows that are sad because you assume the mood of whatever the show is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4526.481

Which thank God you didn't assume the mood of Tell Me Lies. Right. But This Is Us, like it's an emotional journey. So you were kind of an emotional person as you watch this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4535.751

Yeah, but this is different. I don't think it was a Grey's Anatomy COVID situation where I was just completely put out and unable to act every day. This show definitely hits the heartstrings, but in a good way. I loved this show. It kept me interested, and it was so unrealistic to the point where I almost wasn't emotionally affected by it because it's like, when would this ever happen ever?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4560.243

Right. Okay. Yeah. Next one, the unfiltered podcast. This is one of your favorites. Basically unfiltered.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4567.588

It was the merging of two different podcasts that I really like on Spotify. The unfiltered podcast is hosted by Zane Hijazi and Heath. They were like two of David Dobrik's best friends who kind of diverged and made a podcast. And then the other one was pretty basic, hosted by Remy Cruz and Alicia Marie. And they like joined forces and made this podcast all together. So that's what it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4592.466

But what do you like about it? You're not telling us anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4597.431

Well, Remy Cruz has a salad that you pointed out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4601.695

It's a tuna bowl, a salmon bowl. But I've loved all of these YouTubers. It's like more of a nostalgic thing for me because I've watched them since I was like 13, ever since I started watching YouTube. And they join forces and they have a Patreon page, which I really love. And they'll go and do like they'll film a high episode or a mukbang episode or them like going to like on Halloween time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4626.295

They went to the Halloween like scare fest, whatever. It's just like a really fun, airy, light podcast where it's kind of like girls versus boys and they'll do challenges and stuff. But it's just easy to watch. I like it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4642.344

We Live in Time is the next one on the list. I don't even know what that one is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4648.929

Andrew Garfield and Florence Pugh. I loved this movie. I saw this like a month or two ago. Needless to say, I think mom will watch it like 15 times when she finds it. But it was great. I love Andrew Garfield. I love Florence Pugh. I love British accent. Everything about the movie was phenomenal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4669.784

I tried to watch this movie with the two of you and left after like 40 minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4673.286

Yeah. Which I don't know why, because it was also a cooking movie, which is like, that's everything that I need. Cancer, cooking, Andrew Garfield, British accent. I'm in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4683.594

Wow. That's your algorithm. I skipped that one. Blink Twice, Channing Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4691.639

I really love this movie because I'm a big psychological thriller person. I prefer that much more than I do a slasher. Right. Like I love Get Out. I love all those types of movies. So this one I thought was phenomenal. And I love when a movie takes me on a vacation. This movie was on a great resort. Things kind of started to get weird. We didn't exactly know why. It kind of revealed itself.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

470.598

We're keeping him. Here's my statement. And it was old school and I kind of loved it. But this soap opera is probably not over, I'm guessing. Anyway, we are now throwing to me and Joe House talking basketball, million dollar picks, and I'll be wearing a different shirt. You can look forward to that. All right, we're taping this. It is 1030 Pacific time. Joe House is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4717.882

Channing Tatum's gorgeous. It was a beautiful combo of things. I loved this movie.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4722.764

Speaking of going on vacation, you did a White Lotus rewatch that you put on favorite content of the year, even though you'd already seen the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4729.086

A hundred times. And I would watch it again and again. I think this is the single best TV show series ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4739.03

Granted, you've missed a lot of great TV shows. You didn't watch Sopranos. You didn't watch Mad Men, Breaking Bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4747.774

This is my number one. And re-watching it back, all of the little details and the things that I missed the first time I watched it, it's like, wow, this show is phenomenal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4761.705

Therapus. This pod is great. I think this is a perfect example of like new upcoming podcasts that are kind of trying to take like the TikTok vibes and bringing it over to a podcast. This is hosted by Jake Shane, but he just brings on all of his celebrity friends like Sophia Richie, who I love. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4783.071

all sorts of different celebrities and he does this segment called the tell me what's wrongs and he'll have his fans send in like a bunch of things that have happened to them crazy things and then him and the celebrity will give them advice on how to deal with it and then they'll prescribe them with different things to like fix that situation but he's just so funny and light and airy i love his podcast i just i enjoy listening to it i like happy things

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4810.56

When you say the TikTok piece of it, so it's a lot of people like trying to self-diagnose, figure out what's wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4815.945

Yes. And it's like an interactive podcast where his fans are basically like the basis of the podcast. He's answering people's questions and giving them advice with a celebrity, which I think is super effective. And it's personable. Like when I listen to it, I feel like I'm his friend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4834.004

Okay. Waited for an invite from Jake from Therapus. Therapus or Therapus?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4841.6

Okay. The Idea of You. Another content of the year choice for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4849.486

Yeah, should I have been concerned about that? That she was obsessed with the movie about a woman meeting a younger guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4856.599

Anne Hathaway is phenomenal and she only gets more beautiful. And this movie, it had to happen and they executed it perfectly. Like it was about time that a movie like this came out where a celebrity falls in love with a hot mom whose life has fallen apart.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4871.851

I like that. So I happened to watch this one with mom and the ending was Kind of pushing it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4881.423

Can we spoiler alert the ending? People have probably seen this. So they agree to break up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4886.75

Because, you know, she's, what, 15 years older and he's becoming a pop star. And basically they break up because it's screwing up her daughter. Right. Her daughter's having an issue with it. So she's like five years from now, my daughter's in college. Give me a call. It's like, all right. And then she's watching some TV show when he's on. He's like, I'm going to LA. It's five years later.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4908.18

Of course, she's still single, even though she's gorgeous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4912.401

Just hanging out on a Thursday night, sees it. And then all of a sudden he shows up at the end and they have kind of a look.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4921.688

And then he gets to go through menopause and all the great old lady stages with her. Happy for both of them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4927.993

Interesting that the daughter piece in that movie, like a selfish mom making a decision to get involved with a celebrity and then ruining her daughter's life, which actually happens a lot in real life. So I liked it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

493.648

It's a stripped down BS podcast this week. You know, two pods this week. We did something for YouTube. We put some million dollar picks up there. A lot of sports yesterday during Christmas Day. How'd you handle the family... Christmas Day, how to consume sports while also pretending to be a family member part of Christmas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4955.711

You guys love this. We saw this together in the theater. I was not as big of a fan, but you and Ben were. Yeah, I don't know why.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4964.657

Well, you're a bad judge with movies because you have a movie theater like 50 yards from where you go to college. So you can just go at 10 o'clock.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4971.781

But I thought this movie was really good. Out of all the horror movies that came out this year, this was my number one. Again, because I really don't like gore. I haven't even seen Smile 2 yet. I know you guys have seen it and I should see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4984.785

But there's something unappealing about it to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4987.426

You know why Smile 2 was good? Because the lead actress is great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4990.406

Right. But it's like, that's just not my... Long Legs was much more my type of movie. I also like being on the side of the detectives.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

4998.169

I like kind of trying to figure it out with them. And I thought the girl that played the main character was phenomenal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5007.078

I love Hugh Grant. I think he's great. And seeing him in this sort of light was really interesting. It added a lot of depth to him as an actor.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5014.48

So you like detectives chasing something creepy. Right. Something's wrong with the house. It's been a staple.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5019.721

And the whole vibe of that movie was good too. Just the way it was filmed, like the lighting, every attention to detail hit the checkbox for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5027.243

All right. We're going to take a break and then come back with the rest of your awards. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Life's always changing. One season you're trying to break personal records and the next you're just looking for a solid routine. Peloton is here for all of it with workouts that flex to fit your schedule, whatever it looks like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5047.556

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5067.447

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5089.064

I also know that lots of you exercise, but if you're like me and my wife, the beloved sports gal, you're sick and tired of ugly, uncomfortable workout gear, especially, you know, I do a lot of walking. I walk around LA. I make calls. I listen to podcasts. Here are two words that will change everything. Viore clothing. A line of active wear that is unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5111.058

The best thing about Viore is you can lounge around in it. You can work out in it. You can go outside. You can go shopping down in your local wherever. And you never feel like you're either underdressed or overdressed. You're just comfortable. You can wear it when you're training, traveling, lounging around the house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5126.305

Go get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. Here's the deal. Our listeners get 20% off their first purchase at Viori.com slash Simmons. Once again, V-U-O-R-I.com slash Simmons. All right. So we're continuing the teen culture awards. Last year, we're ever doing this. My daughter turns 20 next year. New category show you'd most want to go on. What's the answer?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5153.919

This was the Mystic Kitchen's last meal show, which I've binged every single episode, even of the celebrities that I don't care for. And I find it the most interesting thing that I've ever watched in my life.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5165.882

Because you think about how weird your last meal would be where it's like cottage cheese, pickles, hummus.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5171.007

That, but it's like, it's such an intimate thing to find out about a celebrity. Like this is the last thing that you would eat. Like I was watching, I'm trying to think of a good episode that I really love. But I mean, every celebrity that goes on there, it's just like, what are you putting on your plate right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5188.516

So you feel like compared to hot ones where it's just people like they're burning from chicken, right? Chicken wings. You want to know, you feel like this is a window into their actual personality.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5200.506

It's like, this is the last thing that you would put into your body on the planet. And I think the host, Josh, I don't know how to pronounce his last name. He's great too. He's really intelligent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5213.829

I wish I would have had more time to think about this one. I think a huge Caesar salad with some sort of chicken on it would absolutely be up there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5222.316

Right. Pickles, cottage cheese, all the works, hummus, carrots. But that's like, am I really going to eat that on my last meal? I think I'd need a huge cheese board and a Caesar salad with chicken on it and a Diet Dr. Pepper and a milkshake.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5237.989

All right. The last meal. I'll check that one out. Breakout stars for this year for you. Yeah. You had three people. Trinity Radman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5247.717

I love her. I watched her on the Call Her Daddy podcast last week. Not only was that episode super moving, I just think she is so smart and so cool and so normal considering her entire situation. As for a celebrity, this is the one person where I'm like, wow, I could actually see myself being friends with her. She's so normal and cool and stylish. I really love her. I idolize her, honestly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5273.777

And we really need her for the U.S. Women's World Cup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5276.638

And she's a phenomenal soccer player on top of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5278.719

She's the best forward we've produced probably since Abby Wambach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5284.481

So what did you like about that episode? Just the way she talked about her dad or just like her perspective on fame? Like, what was it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5290.544

I don't know. Yeah, I think that was a really tough topic for her to talk about. And she'd obviously never talked about it for a reason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5298.155

Yeah. And even while having that really tough conversation, she still remained so classy. And like, even though she was airing everything out, she was never speaking poorly on him because she knew there was no point in doing that. So I just like appreciated the way that she approached that situation, the way she held herself.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5316.081

Like, I just think she's going to be, obviously she's already really successful, but she's going to continue to be super successful.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5327.587

So she's just a guest? What does she do? Does she have content?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5330.448

She has a TikTok. Her wedding was like the royal wedding last year. It was like there was so much stigma around it. And she looked beautiful and she's phenomenal. But she's an influencer type. I don't know how to categorize her. I don't want to because I don't specifically know her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5346.258

What do you like about her? Is she funny? She's hilarious.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5349.321

She's like the most normal celebrity that similar to Trinity Rodman that I've ever witnessed. She's just so normal and down to earth. But I also really like her style and the way that she dresses and carries herself. I like to emulate the outfits that she does. She's like the epitome of an influencer to me, like how all the influencers should be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5381.849

Graydon Cutler and Haley Batchelder. Yeah. Who are they?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5386.238

Haley just joined the Call Her Daddy force or the Unwell content, but she has a new podcast on Spotify, which I really love called Extra Dirty. Extra Dirty?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5398.622

Because it's like a sex podcast. It's kind of like how Alex Cooper used to be before she got married. Right. But I really like her. I think she's super funny. She started off in like short form videos on TikTok talking about like all of her quests out in New York City, the guys that she would meet, the things that she'd do, whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

540.118

Not great job by the games, but the broadcast was fine. And then NBA had a really good day. I was thinking, though, the Wembley Knicks game was so good. And I was just thinking big picture about, you know, there's been so much what's wrong with the NBA stuff. And some of it's founded, some of it's stuff we've been complaining about forever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5416.49

She's like not, I don't relate to her all that much, but I really like watching her content a lot. And Graydon's her best friend who's always making weird food combinations, which you know I love.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5427.576

Okay. Storyline of the year, you went with the TikTok band.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5432.972

I just thought this is so interesting because what's going to happen to all of these influencers? I really don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5442.734

Right. It's like all of these people that have given up their jobs and have been making their livelihood by making TikTok videos. Now what happens to them? Like, I genuinely don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5454.863

I guess so. But like, I'm never even on Instagram Reels like that. Yeah. I like Instagram Reels, but like TikTok is, it's so, it's such a well-oiled machine. Like it really reels you in. And now that there's this whole TikTok shop thing, which is Amazon equivalent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5469.594

I can see how it's so detrimental to little kids because all of these videos will be promoting things that you can buy on TikTok shop. You'll literally watch the video and you can click on the thing at the bottom and you're purchasing something all of a sudden. So it's definitely an evil thing. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5485.757

But I'm most curious to see what will happen to all of these influencers and people that have devoted their lives to making TikTok videos that are no longer going to have any job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5496.979

I'm good with TikTok going away. Favorite developments. You mentioned Patreon earlier. So you're talking about like special Patreon only. I love Patreon. Like this special content.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5508.019

This really feeds into like the secrecy feeling like you're friends with your favorite influencer. Obviously, I have to pay $10 a month or whatever to have the Patreons of the people that I'm subscribed to. But it's so interesting because it's almost like a whirlpool into what old YouTube looked like before all of the monetizations and whatever were put in place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5530.158

It's like you can really just lay it all out with no care at all.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5538.723

I don't know if I want to see whatever you do on Patreon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5542.005

Thank you. Spotify video is another one you were talking about. You like when Spotify, which is good because we're tripling down on this, but you like either watching or listening to a podcast depending on where you are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5554.271

Yeah, I think it's a great advancement and it's really helpful to see the person that's talking space. Like that's just something that I connect their words so much better with whoever they are by watching the video. And I'll just put it up on the treadmill if I'm working out or if I'm in the car, I won't watch the video. But like, I like that you have the option.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5576.127

All right. Well, you're going to keep getting it. Most fascinating trend. So two things here. You have the last days of original influencer content. What does that mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

558.95

And then some of it is real issues, which is basically how do you find these under 30 American stars that people are going to give a shit about? Like they care about Steph and LeBron. And yet the Steph LeBron thing last night was the solution and the problem at the same time. Yeah. Because it was the same thing for the Olympics too, right? It was awesome watching those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5587.509

I think we were talking about the canceled podcast when we... Well, so we can... The canceled podcast is the other piece of that. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5593.89

So you're talking about there's the end of some sort of era that people don't even know is an era.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5598.911

People know. It's like the YouTube Vine era of like all of the way that old social media used to be, the way that influencers used to behave. It was like so much more raw and like upfront and people were openly crazy about And Tana Mongeau is like the face of that when I think of old YouTube because she's just like the epitome of she's been everywhere and done everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5624.919

So people beefing, getting canceled, coming back. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5627.82

It's like the cockroach syndrome where it's like you can just be openly crazy and there was really no problem with it. And you'd get canceled and you'd come back and it would just be a continuous loophole where now cancel culture is like you're canceled forever. For whatever it might be. And you're done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5644.647

But the canceled podcast, similar to its name, it really was like the last era of that. It felt like because Brooke Schofield and Tana Mongeau would like air out all of this shit that happened, all these crazy stories of living in L.A., going out in Hollywood, whatever it was. And now Tana's in a happy relationship. So is Brooke.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5665.301

And they just kind of are diverging into like this regular influencer, whatever the new

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5671.005

spotify world so do you have to basically not be in a healthy relationship to be a good podcaster apparently so or just to be an interesting influencer because i asked you what would happen if alex cooper just got divorced and you got super excited you're like whoa if she started dating again that would be amazing well that was her her whole bag all of her podcasts and stories were about like having random hookups and running around new york city and like being a degenerate and whatever

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5695.15

And now she's happy and super successful. And I'm so happy for her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5704.335

And I love like her story about hooking up with the Red Sox guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5708.518

And like her story about her times in Paris. Like all of when she does the old stories about everything that used to happen to her. I was like, wow, this is good content like this. I miss this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5720.051

Next category is couple I want to break up because I'm jealous. Couple I hope they break up, I guess. You're not literally hoping for a breakup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5730.46

No, but I'm just jealous. I wish I could be Olivia Jade. She's dating Jacob Elordi, but she never talks about it, which is really interesting to me. You're dating one of the hottest guys on earth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5744.651

Right, and Australian. And he's not in any of her content. She's still alive. I love her YouTube videos. I'm a big fan of Olivia Jade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5754.293

Yeah, she's also a good influencer where she just keeps it classy. She's not too crazy. I really like her content a lot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5762.835

Right. Okay. But I do like her a lot and I'm jealous of her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5769.557

Grossest internet moment of the year. We had the, you had the Sydney Sweeney body shaming stuff from a couple weeks ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5778.61

I don't want to say like grossest, like I was grossed out, like grossest, like wow, society is really horrific.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5784.155

Yeah, this was awful. Because I saw TikTok videos alluding to it, but not the pictures, just being like, wow, what happened to Sydney Sweeney, like all this stuff. And I was expecting to see something horrible. And she just looks completely normal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

579.495

Hey, the old guys, look at it. They still got it. But it's still coming at the expense of everybody else. Like even yesterday, it's in that eight o'clock. It's in the best spot. It's after football's over. And that's the signature game. And it's basically two 500 teams. And it's guys that have been in the league since 2003 and 2009, respectively. And yet OKC wasn't on Christmas Day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5800.989

Yeah, she's like actually putting some muscle on. Like she looks similar to how like most females look. And I was just like, this is ridiculous that in this day and age with all this cancellation stuff, people will still talk like that. I found that super disheartening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5815.958

What did you think of her post refuting all the, or did you see the post she did?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5820.44

You know, I've always been a big fan of her. I think she's wonderful in White Lotus and I love Euphoria. And her straying away from the character that she usually plays is an interesting thing to me. I'm excited to see the movie. I thought that her response definitely made me like her a lot more.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5836.07

Yeah. Well, two people you didn't really like. Feud of the year. Although I guess you're on the Blake Lively side. Blake Lively versus Justin Baldoni. So this was a big thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5847.112

This has been like a nine-month story on social media, and now it blew up again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5851.374

Well, there's been lots of back and forth because originally when the movie was being promoted, Blake Lively was kind of promoting the show up in your florals to the movie, and Justin Baldoni was taking more of the domestic violence awareness side.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5866.801

But they also weren't promoting it together. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5869.062

And people were really criticizing Blake for being insensitive of the entire intention behind the movie. But it turns out that there was some reasoning behind it. I think the situation is horrible. And looking at the intimate details of it, it's really, really weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5885.37

So I know all the mainstream journalism media angles reporting on it. What is the TikTok Instagram version?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5897.87

was being very strange during all of their sexual scenes yeah and even the girl that played the younger version of blake lively he was making really crude comments about her sex scenes with the younger character that was supposed to play atlas yeah um and on top of that he like walked in on her in her trailer this is all legend we should mention multiple times yeah a legend

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

59.922

You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5922.08

Um, but like a lot of really disgusting sentiments came out of this, just like really uncomfortable, seemingly like minor versions of, um, sexual abuse, but it's really.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5934.809

Well, the fact that she had that meeting and put all that stuff in there, like from now on, we will no longer, you will no longer add kissing scenes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5941.653

And people are really trying to turn it on Blake Lively at the beginning. Like Blake Lively is an asshole and she's like mean to reporters and everyone was turning on her. But it seems like there was a lot more to the situation. It's really sad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5954.741

What's your generation's relationship with Blake Lively?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5958.471

For a second there, people weren't liking her, but I think she's she's widely loved because of Gossip Girl and all of the movies that she's done. I mean, I like her.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5966.094

She's a friend of Taylor Swift. I think she's in good shape.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5968.555

Yeah, but I don't I don't know. She's not within my area.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5972.671

All right, we're going to be delicate with this next one. By the way, mom's take on Justin Baldoni was, I never liked his face.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

5981.233

That was it. He played the role that he played a little too well. 2025 career advice is the next category. Right. And I just have in the notes, dangerous Disney. You don't like when the Disney stars hit this phase when they get older and then they have to prove how dangerous they are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6000.796

Well, it just seems like this is a common thing that happens between Sabrina Carpenter and Olivia Rodrigo and all of these really popular Disney influencers that are now trying to desensitize themselves and escape from the Disney world.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6018.932

And like in a lot of ways it works and I support it. But then there's times where it's just like this feels like it's kind of over the top, like you're trying to prove something here. And sometimes it's like feeding into that Disney thing is is not always a bad thing. I just think that sometimes it's a little too trying to get out of the box.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

602.187

Giannis wasn't on Christmas Day. Wemby was buried at the beginning of the day. And this is like, you're kind of doing this to yourself. But at the same time, I get it because Stefan LeBron was awesome. So I don't really know what the answer is. It's like you could go glass half full, glass half empty on it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6045.136

Because she's super sexy. Like, I think she's beautiful. But she was a Disney star for a long time. And she kind of like shifted over to being who she is now from who she was then.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6054.385

What helps that she's an awesome actress. Right. And got an iconic TV show. And did a lot of movies and stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6059.11

Right. But that's the way to do it. Like, that's the poster way to do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6063.786

I don't know what the answer is, but I have written down makeup tip of the year. I don't even know if we came up with this one. You don't have one? All right. We'll move on to the next one. College food and drink weird budget MVPs. All right. This is stuff when you're in college, you're racing around, especially like you, you're playing sports.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6080.231

You have only like 30 minutes to eat, 20 minutes to eat, 10 minutes to grab something. I have a bunch of food here. So what do you want to start?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6089.554

I want to start off by saying Starbucks saved my life.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6093.7

The dining hall usually closed before soccer practice would be over. And there were countless times where the Starbucks next door to me would provide my meals. I think I ate strictly Starbucks for probably two months straight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6107.256

So you support the Starbucks. I support Starbucks. So you have, I wrote down Starbucks egg bites.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6119.625

And matcha latte was a big one for you this year?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6121.787

I love a matcha latte. I'm obviously a college student and I need as much energy as I can get. Yeah. And coffee, sometimes I'm just not in the mood for it. And matcha actually gives me the caffeine boost that I need without the comedown. Because sometimes from coffee, I'll get tired a few hours after having it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6141.701

Matcha makes my entire body feel fantastic. And it's a good, healthy energy boost because it's green tea.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6148.962

In that Starbucks that's next to your dorm, there's probably, what, 10, 11 people that work there? How many of them knew who you were?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6155.406

Oh, we're friends. I have a friend every morning that I say hello to. It's wonderful.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

616.635

But the fact that the Steph LeBron game was so good and sucked up so much oxygen from the day is actually kind of part of the problem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6165.713

Can you explain what chompsticks are? Because most people don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6168.194

It's a meat stick. I guarantee you most people know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6173.538

Yeah, it's a jerky, but it's made out of turkey. And it's delicious. Me and mom were on the ski mountain the other day and she was appalled because I was putting mustard on my chomp sticks. But chomp sticks, I don't regret it one bit. Chomp sticks are my MVP in 2023.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6188.55

So that would have been, that's the answer to the question. Weirdest thing I did with my food in 2024, putting mustard in a public place on chopsticks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6194.892

Or like the pickles dipped in the cottage cheese with the hummus. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6198.913

Yeah. That was the last MVP was hummus, pickles, and cottage cheese.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6202.474

So you would just walk to this Trader Joe's in Boston. buy a bunch of weird food and then cram them into a small college refrigerator.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6209.677

Into my little fridge. And no one would touch that fridge in my suite. They all knew. They open it up and it's like, this is a crime scene.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6217.76

Yeah, that's why I'm like a good, good as a roommate because no one wants to eat my stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6222.482

Like even if anyone was trying to eat my things, no one would want to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6227.965

Last category. Advice to my younger self as an athlete and future strong woman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6238.496

Things you learned now that you're 19 and a half, things you wish you could have told yourself at age 12, 13, 14.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6245.569

Sure. Well, I think on a relationships standpoint, because that was partially what I was thinking of when we wrote this down. And this is advice that I give to my friends a lot of the times. In a relationship, you have just as much power as the other person and succumbing to like whatever they want at all times is super unhealthy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6270.19

And I think that that's definitely something that I've learned over the years, just like not folding over. I've definitely become a lot more feisty since I've gotten to college. I think in middle school, as you know, a lot of people like walk all over me because I am a nice person.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6287.704

And I would like allow that to happen. But standing up for yourself is something obviously that you learn with age.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6292.528

It's been nice to have you home when we taught you how to be bullied again. But me and mom just telling you what to do and yelling at you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6299.773

Right. As a soccer forefront or just sports in general, I think you cannot continue on if you don't love it. That's something that I have learned to be true. I've gone through injury last year where I thought I might have to quit. There's been lots of times in my life where it's like I don't want to miss any more birthday parties or any more friend playdates.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6322.032

I feel like I'm losing friends, like I don't want to do this sport anymore. And pushing through that and knowing that you have the love to push through the sacrifices is the most important thing. You won't make it if you don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6334.13

Yeah, you know, that's interesting because I think that's the number one thing I learned as a parent too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6338.773

That if the kid doesn't love it, there's nothing you can do as a parent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6342.215

You can't make someone love something. You'll burn them out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6344.537

Like I've seen it. You had two real injuries and each time you could have said, I don't want to play anymore and it's not worth it. But each time you really wanted to keep playing and you fought to get back and healthy, which you did again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

6357.205

Recently. But I've seen other people or they're...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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Well, I've seen it happen time and time again where it's like people I've played with that are dying for it to be over. Yeah. Because it's like they either feel like they were forced to do it or like they were doing it for somebody else. And in part, I'll always play for you because I know how much you love to watch me play. But I mostly play because of how much I love it.

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And if I didn't love it, I would not be able to do it for as long as I have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. And you're playing. I mean, you're in a more physical position, too. So it's not like your body's pretty banged up by the end of the season if you're playing big minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. But I think that also feeds into like the giving yourself the right nutrients and like being a healthy person in general. Because there's a lot of like, I don't know, on TikTok especially, it's like what I eat in a day as a fat person is literally like all over my For You page. Like there's a lot of people promoting really unhealthy eating or like what I eat in a day as a skinny person.

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As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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Like these are literal headlines of videos that I've watched. Like this lady Liv Schmidt who was canceled all year because she was underweight and like kind of

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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promoting an unhealthy eating style it seems like she's like adapted a more healthy eating style but with social media and with tiktok there's a lot of promotion of the way that people eat and it's it's not anything like we've ever had before because social media was never so big so it's also making people think about food right more than maybe they would Right.

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It's like it becomes people's entire universes. And I've definitely dealt with that. And as an athlete, it's important to give yourself the right nutrients. I think that's important, too. That's what I've learned.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The more time we have with social media, I do wonder if... it reemphasizes things that are potential problems anyway.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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Like food or if you think you have some sort of hang up or something wrong.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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Well, yeah. It's like people self-diagnose themselves all the time. People change. And it's hard because when you feel like you're in a really tough place and you don't know what's wrong with you and then you see somebody else that might be having similar symptoms to you and you finally feel like you're being heard or like you found the solution. Yeah. that's a really gratifying feeling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But in the end of the day, it's probably not what you have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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And it's like people go down this rabbit hole and social media was not something that we were intended to have as human beings. And it's like, you have all of this insight on people's lives that you would never cross paths with otherwise. So it like creates a really weird

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As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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universe for a lot of people like me where it's like i'll be seeing all these food videos or all of these like whatever sorts of videos that i i normally wouldn't ever see or pay attention to so it's just weird well one other thing you learned in 2024 is you could be a good nurse I could nurse. Yeah, I could.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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Honestly, I think your boyfriend hurt his leg and was in a cast for six weeks and you had to take care of him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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But you did a good job. It seems like you did a decent job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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I tried my best, but that's, yeah, that's something I had to learn. Rolling someone around in a wheelchair is not as easy as it looks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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You finally got to be in a Grey's Anatomy episode.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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I know. I almost pushed him into traffic a few times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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Good to see you. That was it for Teen Culture. I guess we'll have to come up with another name if we do this again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Joe House. Thanks to my daughter, Zoe Simmons. Can't believe I was able to book her. Thanks to Saruti and thanks to Kyle. Thanks to you guys for listening.

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As the NBA Turns, 2024 Teen Culture Awards, and Million-Dollar Picks with Joe House and Zoe Simmons

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Well, you say this is the journey we're on, though. I still go back, and I talked about this a couple weeks ago, but the Olympics are a chance to showcase some of the younger guys and give them some new memories that they can... they can make a foundation of our experience with them as superstars. And yet those moments went to the old guys. Christmas still going to the old guys.

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And I just think they're stuck in the middle. I remember when we were in college in the early 90s, This transition felt a lot more organic to the MJ, Barkley, Hakeem, Drexler, all the Stockton and Malone, Sean Kemp GP. It just felt like it was organically shifting generations. It doesn't feel as organic this time around.

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Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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Well, Wemby, I was talking about this with Van and a couple other people on text this week. Wemby has two things going against him that historically has not been great for somebody really captivating the American public. One, he's tall. Tall people in our lifetime, it's never really totally worked. It's hard to identify with centers. You know, it's why Shaq Shaq's a one of one. Yeah.

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But even Shaq, we were there in the nineties. Shaq was pretty polarizing in the nineties, right? People were, well, he was a huge superstar. He put up huge stats, but it took a while. Charismatic. I mean, he was, but it took a while. I really feel like it was the three at Lakers titles. Yeah. that was like, all right, Shaq's arrived.

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But remember there was like the 96 Olympics, like some of the movies he did, some of the rap albums, like the Lakers underachieved. I know, but did you feel like he was the most popular guy in the league? I didn't. Like it was MJ's league and then MJ retired and we were like, who's going to be next? And I don't think anyone thought the answer was Shaq.

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But that the point is Shaq. So Shaq's probably become the closest, but it's usually a perimeter guy. Sure. That becomes, that's why I like that AJ DeBansa. Anyway, the, the Wemby thing, he's got that and he's got the foreign thing, which is another huge thing. You know, we've never really seen a foreign guy captivate this country. We can see worldwide it might be great. Who is the most popular?

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Who would you say is the most popular? We've had some great ones. I mean, you're the historian. Well, Hakeem, I think, was the best historian. foreign player of all time, right?

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Yeah. None of them are face of the leagues. Jokic right now is on the best offensive heater this decade of anyone in a long time. And nobody, I mean, part of that is he's not Mr. Personable, but, um, Yeah, it'll be interesting to see with Wemby. We've just never seen it. We've watched a lot of centers come into the league since we've loved this league.

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Walton was probably that one, and we were kids when that happened, but when Walton and the Blazers, that felt like he was the face of the league for a year, but Kareem never resonated. We watched Ewing come in. It just kind of never happened for him. He also wasn't amazingly fun to watch. Samson had a blip. And then it just wasn't going to happen with him. And you go on and on.

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I think the thing that'll tilt it for Wemby is if he keeps just having crazy games like the one yesterday. He's going to just have these 40.10 block. Like he's in the playoffs and... You know, he's putting up like 40, 15. If it's just stuff we've never seen before, that might actually work. But it's going to take a while. Needs to be on that national stage. You know, we had them as...

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This episode is brought to you by Pepsod Complete. We all know that one of the best parts of game day is the food. On Sundays, Nephi Kyle comes over. Sometimes we'll get healthy. We'll get some salads. Sometimes we'll get a little ambitious. We'll get some sandwiches. It's always the best part of my food week. Well, until heartburn strikes, then it's not as great.

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They're an 11 seed... but they're 15 and 15 in a really hard conference. And there's a feistiness. They play defense.

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They have a guy who's not afraid of whoever the other team star is. And I'm prepared to chalk that up to a loss, that San Antonio thing. I think they'll get over 35. And they also, there's trade possibilities with them too. You know, I mean, there was a lot of the Darren Fox stuff started last weekend. It really should have started a month ago.

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You know, he's this year, he's a free agent after next year. The team feels like the DeRozan thing just, it's not happening. They started thinking of Fox and the Fox stuff is so much more enticing. for teams like Houston and San Antonio than Jimmy Butler. Jimmy Butler's 35. He's been unhappy the whole year. Fox is a different animal.

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First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. So we just watched the NFL draft and three basketball playoff games all at the same time. It was really great. And I wrote down a bunch of notes for the NFL draft because anyone I wanted to have with me in this first segment is all doing another pod for the ringer. So, you know what? I'm going to solo. I'm a pro. I can do it.

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Membo, you can see this in the ringer draft guide, was called a leaner and a lunger. which I think are bad traits for a tackle, apparently. But my number one, and this is why I didn't like the Ted McMillan pick, and I thought that was the worst pick. I thought him going to the Panthers at eight was the worst pick in the draft. We'll see if I'm right or wrong.

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But Ted McMillan can't get enough separation was the thing that people were hanging on. There was also the he loves volleyball more than football. I'm not going to acknowledge that. They can't get enough separation.

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I think it's a real thing because the Patriots over and over again have drafted receivers or signed receivers like Devante Parker, who the guys are never open because they can't get any separation. And then the quarterback has to make like perfect throws just to get in the ball. You see these highlights of these guys in college making one handed catches, jumping over five, nine defensive backs.

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And I just I want guys who are wide open. If I'm drafting a receiver, I want somebody like golden where you see the clips and he's just like wide open in all the clips. I want guys like that. I don't care about the guys who can make the catches in traffic. It seems like those guys are more likely to bust than anything.

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So that I would say out of all the half glass, half empty stereotypes, that's the one I might, I might believe in most mainly because I've been burned by 20 plus years of terrible Patriots picks. Uh, Another big takeaway from this draft, which I think people say every year, but I was really thinking about it this year. Why do people go to the NFL draft?

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I feel like I get 99.9% of the sports fan experience, which is a reason that I think I've had some success over the years. This I don't get. And I was thinking like,

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During the darkest, most interesting, most bored stretches of my entire life, which is probably my mid-20s, when I was broke and barely employed or unemployed sometimes or semi-employed and then employed again, my mom was paying my mobile gas card. I was charging soda and food on it, hoping she wouldn't notice. Even then, my darkest moments, I never would have wanted to go to the NFL draft.

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I wouldn't have wanted to go if it was in Boston, much less driving to Foxborough to go. I just don't get it. And I'm not saying I'm right or wrong. I just don't personally understand it. I don't get it. And maybe if Van pops on here in a second, I'll ask him. But everybody seems like they have a great time. But this year specifically...

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To go to Green Bay, which is a really hard place to go to, to find a hotel. The airport situation is a disaster. I just don't get it. I also didn't get why Roger Goodell came out on a bike. And I don't get in general why he tries so hard to pretend he's like this... great, awesome guy when we all know he's, he's, you know, he's, he's a business assassin.

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That's the reason he stayed the commissioner of the song, but you're not going to fool us riding a bike and bear hugging, uh, teammates or, uh, draft picks. Um, one other note, the giants triple down on their defensive line. And it's fun. I have a lot of giants fans in my life to make fun of them about this because they immediately default to the first super bowl win over the paths.

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Well, it worked out for us in 2007. Um, It's not going to work out this time because the rest of your team really sucks and your quarterbacks are Jackson Dart and Tommy DeVito and Russell Wilson and Jameis Winston. And I wish you all a lot of luck. And I still hate you for 2007 and 2011. So I just want to get that in. But this is the Mike Lombardi theory.

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with if you have a strength, double down on the strength. This is one of my favorite Lombardi theories that we'll see. This giant thing will be a good example. Can we be really awesome at one part of football and can we be so awesome at it that we'll actually transfer to the rest of football? Um, those are all my notes.

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The only, the only thing about people going in the draft, I did enjoy when, when, uh, the Packer fans booed the bears, Steve McMichael came on, they had the memorial, the moment of silence or whatever happened there. And the crowd got respectful for a second and then went back to bust them. The bears again, that whole Packers bear thing is really funny. And, uh, And I enjoy that.

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I still don't know why you would stand there as people got picked. I just don't get it. I'm not, I'm not trying to sound superior to people. I, I just don't personally understand it. So if anyone can explain it to me, I'd love to, uh, I'd love to know more. Uh, all right. So Rudy, you have, do you have a take on this?

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New Year's Eve is a good example because I don't get that either. But at least I get it a little bit because it's something to do on New Year's. It's like, what did you do on New Year's? We went to Times Square. We had to do it. Yeah, it seems awful. But NFL Draft seems... Can you drink at this? Do they sell food? They must, right?

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I don't know. It looks like you're at a concert at Wembley Stadium.

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And you're way in the back watching whoever.

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No, because it's a little more confined. This just seems like this massive sporting event that I just don't get it. Do you agree with me on McFillan?

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Yeah, that's the thing is, I don't, I'm not saying, I'm leaving the door open that I'm completely wrong, and I'm just not seeing it correctly. But I don't see it in any way. Do you think Sanders should have fallen in the second round?

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But I did have some thoughts. First of all, the Jaguars trading the second pick to pick Travis Hunter, which was somehow another devastating Patriots moment. I had already mourned the fact that we screwed up week 18. We screwed up our chance to have a top pick and to trade down and get all this stuff. And then the Browns had the second pick.

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Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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are here too. What am I the most excited about? I'm excited to see if the Celtics can defend their title. I'm excited to see if Steph Curry and Jokic can keep going and going and going round after round. I'm excited for the potential of an LA versus LA playoff series. It's never happened. Clippers, Lakers, never in my lifetime. Is OKC for real? Is Cleveland for real?

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Is SGA going to prove that he is the best scoring guard in the postseason? Basically, Since Michael Jordan? Since Kobe Bryant? Is he on that level? We're all going to find out. There's plenty to look forward to on and off the court. like Michelob Ultra Courtside. That's another thing. It's getting fans closer to the game with unique prizes.

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See official rules at makelobeultra.com slash rules for price and details, message and data rate may apply. Void, we're prohibited. All right, we brought Van Lathan in. He was available, even though it's late at night. I know you're a night owl like us.

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We're talking about why Sanders fell to the second round, and I had to give you the floor because I know you watched him not just at Colorado, but even before that. Were you surprised that he fell in the second round in a league where half the teams seem like they're not happy with who their quarterback is?

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They get number five, a second, a fourth, and a 2026 for Hunter. And I just, I almost started drinking, but I knew I had a podcast. Um, It's always disorienting when the Browns do something smart. That was one of my first takeaways from this because it's just that usually the Browns lose a trade like this. I thought this was insane by the Jaguars.

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Yeah, the two things that don't make sense to me Big games on the road with crowds, right? Making plays, making clutch plays every once in a while, like which he definitely did. Like he seemed like he had a knack for the moment. And then you mentioned the key thing, how freaking tough he was.

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Which I think when you're at the next level, you're just going to either you're going to stand in the pocket and take hits or you're not. We've seen so many quarterbacks who seem like they're afraid to get hit. I'm not saying he should have gone 10th or 12th, but it's hard for me to believe once we get in the 20s with how hard it is to find a quarterback that he wouldn't have gone in the 20s.

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Which makes me think they thought he was like Andy Dalton, basically. Like a poor man's Andy Dalton.

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I know everyone thinks Travis Hunter is a one-on-one, all that stuff, but I just don't think you trade huge packages like this unless you're getting a quarterback. I think the Browns were thinking the same thing any of us would think if we were in this situation. When in doubt, trade with the Khan family. I think they've become like Vivek and the Kings in the NBA.

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If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. Coming up, NFL Draft, NBA Playoffs. Yeah. What a night. It's all next. Also brought to you by the ringer podcast network. We put up a ton of NFL coverage, uh, podcasts. We did a live show with McShay. McShay's got the newsletter. We got the ringer.com.

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I talked about this earlier, but wouldn't it be amazing if he ended up in Cleveland when we thought there was a chance he could have gone to Cleveland before people realized he was in top three? But now he could go to Cleveland, a team that has been in hell with their quarterback since Baker Mayfield left. And now he goes there. He'd have a wide open runway to be good right away.

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I think that Khan and the Jaguars, I think that whole family is the same way. It's like, cool, they're going to overpay for second pick. We can move down three spots, take Mason Graham, get a first round pick, get a second, get a fourth. Sure, let's do that. One of the cool things, though, ESPN covered this in the moment. Like Cam Ward was getting picked.

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He'd have a better offensive line than he had at Colorado.

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Handsome guy. Maybe that'll be his legacy. Handsome guy. Come in and interview him. Seems like he's like Brad Pitt's coming in. Cleveland has 33 and 36. The two teams between them are Houston, who already have a quarterback, and Tennessee, who just drafted a quarterback.

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And if they passed on him twice when their quarterbacks are Kenny Pickett and Deshaun Watson, who's out for the year and who everybody in Cleveland hates, that is just damning. And then you go to the Raiders are sitting there at 37. And could they try to move up? Like, I can't imagine him getting by at 37. Yeah. Then it's like, all right, what the fuck's going on?

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Van, when does this become one of the most reprehensible sports media people yelling at each other stories we've had in a while? What needs to happen? Jokic versus Embiid for the MVP was the last time it got really dark. I don't know if anything can get that bad.

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I think he was even going up to the podium and Schefter came right in and was like, we had a trade, blah, blah, blah. I think with the NBA, they always like kind of wait. You find out the trade happened on Twitter before anything happens. And then I liked how it felt like it was part of the action. They announced the trade when they did the pick. This isn't hard, NBA. Just get this shit together.

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the injustice to me is that we don't have enough good quarterbacks. So you have to really think this guy doesn't have it. If you're like, we still don't know who the Steelers quarterback is. Sruti, is it like Kirk Cousins now? Like what is it? Like really, they're going to do the Aaron Rodgers roller coaster, kind of keep their fingers crossed for a guy who seemed like he was washed last year.

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Yeah, that's what happens with these clusters with the draft where you're the best looking person in your cluster, but it's not a good cluster. And you can fool people into thinking you're better than you are. I thought that was really interesting that people, I saw the same stuff that people thought like Bo Nix would have gone ahead. of Cam Ward if they were in the same draft. That's crazy.

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I guess the positive for Jacksonville, if there is a positive for overpaying for Travis Hunter when we've never seen anybody be able to play both sides of the ball anymore. And I can't wait to watch because it's going to be super fun. They're probably like a top seven or top eight.

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Well, it does seem like the interviews were a real thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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People were being anonymous because they didn't want people coming at them, but it didn't seem like a fake story. It did seem like something that turned some teams off.

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Or you look it out because you want to get him the second round. And you're like, yeah, that guy's a fucking asshole. And meanwhile, you're like, I hope he falls to 33.

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It was like the draft day movie. It was the birthday party. It was Bo Calhan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I know as a Patriots fan hoping that two quarterbacks were going top three, you could feel it shifting in fucking February that once the first wave of analysis came in on him, it was pretty bleak. So I don't get it.

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I'm at least intrigued to see what's going on on the multi-view with them for the first four weeks of the season with Hunter and with Brian Thomas Jr., who I loved watching last year. But the big thing I was thinking was those London games, which they always suck when the Jaguars are involved. And now it's like Travis Hunter's in the London games for the next couple of years. that's a bonus.

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Dan, can we go rapid fire really quick? Will Campbell, number four, Patriots. His arms are apparently an inch too short. I've talked myself into the pick, but you loved him. Can you make the Will Campbell case for my Patriot fan friends?

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What was your favorite pick of the first 15 rounds? For value slash you think the guy's going to absolutely kick ass for the team.

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Notice how he's not saying Kelvin Banks to the Saints at nine.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Rudy, what was your favorite value slash I love this fit. I love everything about this pick.

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That's, that's worth getting up at six 30 in the morning in the Pacific coast. You're like, all right, get to watch Travis Hunter. Maybe he'll play D back and receiver the whole game. Um, The big thing for me, though, once again, they've overpaid to get Trevor Lawrence some toys. So they've spent money on Christian Kirk, Calvin Ridley, Evan Ingram, right? Big money on Christian Kirk.

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No-brainer. I agree with you. That one, the Falcons getting Walker, and then I really like Golden to the Packers. They just over and over again just keep getting these receivers. The Pats haven't been able to draft one in 20 years, and the Packers over and over again are just grabbing these dudes, but I thought that was a good one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Would you have taken Travis Hunter or Abdul Carter if you had the second pick? Travis Hunter. Okay. Would you have traded all that stuff Jacksonville traded to get him?

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Like Parsons, slightly poor man's Parsons, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That was a very fun pick. All right. Thanks for staying up with us, man. Thanks to Rudy. Always good to see your face as well. We're going to take a break. Come back with CR Mahoney. All right, we're recording this 9.33 p.m. No Wi-Fi in my house for some reason, so I'm using my iPhone. I think it looks fine. The Dream Team is here. Rob Mahoney, Chris Ryan.

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Just watched OKC come back from at least 55 points. Mahoney, was that the John Moran got injured game or the Alex Caruso? Not quite the Alex Caruso game, but if it was a bigger game, it would be the Alex Caruso game.

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Yeah, I mean, he's always somebody you worried was going to get injured in every game because of the way he played, but that was not his fault. That was a pretty fluky. CR, was that dirty to you at all or not really?

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But I'm sure other people have different opinions. Tough week for guys slipping and then undercutting famous stars in the playoffs.

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Not great. Not great. I'll tell you what OKC did show me, though. OK. it's never good to lose by 30 when you're, you're the favorites to win the title in a game three, when it looked like the series was over after the first two games and then jaw gets hurt, momentum shifts, but it was still like a 24 point game in the third quarter, you know, and then OKC did the thing.

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that, you know, I really appreciate it. If you're going to have some championship pedigree, can you really crack down? Can you go on a run? Can you crack the defense up another level? Um, and then all of a sudden it started to feel like the first two games. So Rob weirdly, I think that game was like a, a, a win and something that maybe okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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See needed for those last two rounds that they're going to get to would be my takeaway. No.

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That was a much maligned signing back in the day. They drafted Michael Thomas with a first round pick. That was smart. They drafted Travis Etienne 25th in the first round. I think the same year they picked Lawrence. And then they paid Lawrence huge money. It just seems like they're constantly trying to throw assets at him, hoping he's good. And the thing is, he might not be good.

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CR, as a scrappy former little basketball player, is there a kinship watching him take on Jaron Jackson? Is there anything more fun if we were just going to rank things that don't quite get enough credit?

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Oh, I didn't even think of that. There are many inroads to this metaphor, it turns out. But it's one of those things that's so secretly fun about basketball that we all enjoy but we don't talk about nearly enough is when the much smaller guy is guarding the bigger guy. who's just being completely exposed.

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We're seeing it a little bit in the Golden State Houston series, too, with Draymond and Fred VanVleet, where they're just like, Fred VanVleet's like 5'11". We're going to put him on Draymond. What are you guys going to do? And he can't do anything.

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But for Jaron Jackson, who I did not vote for all NBA, and I think is a frustrating player to watch sometimes, but I did not think that was a good look for him, C.R.

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So it seems like John might be seriously hurt. We have no idea as we're taping this, but he came back out in crutches. Crutch is never good. Maybe it's a hip thing. Maybe they think it might be. Who knows? I don't want to speculate.

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So we'll see, but at least, uh, at least the London games will be fun, but I thought that was a good trade for the Browns. Uh, next thing. So Shador Sanders, it, you know, this just kept going, um, for weeks and weeks. I'm, I'm not, I'm not throwing darts cause I certainly talked about it on my podcast a couple of times. It was weird.

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Yeah, when Verno tweets, oh no, the most likely scenario is a jaw injury. Given that the NFL draft tonight, it was probably like I have over two and a half quarterbacks in the first round. Oh no. I mean, there was all kinds of gambling possibilities too. This OKC piece. you know, there's not a lot to learn from this series. It's a, I think pretty much of a mismatch.

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And if Memphis was going to win a game, it was going to be tonight. But for the most part, this was either going to be four or five, but it did get interesting down there. Five minutes left. Memphis is playing really hard. Pippen's doing some interesting stuff against SGA. It's like a smaller guy trying to like kind of dive down on his dribble.

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And, you know, they're throwing like some flash double teams that I'm bouncing off them. And, Just trying to watch them execute. And the big guy was Holmgren, where you really felt the stretch five-ness of him. And he was not shy about taking shots. He made one big one. But I was watching that. Did you notice anything down the stretch there? Because that's going to happen to them.

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They're going to play the Clippers probably in... in round two, right there, they might play golden state or the Lakers who, who knows in round three. And then the Celtics are waiting for them. And there's going to be these little pockets at the end of games, these real crunch time moments when teams are going to be throwing everything they have at them to try to knock them out of their offense.

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It's like, all right, Jay Williams, let's see it. Hey, check. Can you make that Alex Bruce? Are you afraid of the corner? How about you, Lou Dort? Uh, what did you notice from the last five minutes? Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, it's the perfect OKC box score if you're saying what's the blueprint for what their championship clinching box score would look like, right? SGA 31-8. Holmgren, 24-8 rebounds. Williams, 26-6-5. And then Caruso. How many steals did he have? 10-6 with four steals. But how many deflections? Yeah. It was crazy.

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To think that he wasn't going to go in the first round in a league where it feels like a third of the teams always need a quarterback when teams who were drafting in this first round needed a quarterback. The Giants passed on him twice. They haven't had a quarterback since Eli retired. Um, Mel Kiper just felt, he just had, I'm going down with the, the ship energy.

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And had a couple of those Kawhi Leonard, I'm just going to take the ball from you now moments that are always fun.

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I remember the first year he started playing for the Lakers. And it became a big thing because his hair was so weird. He hadn't shaved his hair yet. And he just had one of those like super duper, almost like one of those sports writers at a Super Bowl haircuts where you're like, what is going on with that guy's head? And it became a huge talking point.

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on social media where they were like, look at this fucking guy, this white guy, the Lakers have, what's going on with this dude? And he had a couple, I remember LeBron broke some sort of record and Caruso was one of the first people that high-fived him. And it was like, wow, it's so awkward, this Caruso guy. And then we all kind of realized watching them hey, this guy's pretty good. Am I crazy?

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Or is Caruso like decent? And then it just kind of kept going. He's a decently big part of that 2020 title team and it's gone and gone. And now I find it hard to believe, Rob, that he's not a crunch time guy for them. Right. He's going to probably be out there in big games.

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Well, we thought we were going to be leading this podcast with Clippers Nuggets. I talked about this on a pod earlier this week when I had Zach on and we talked about Kawhi for a while and then at the end we were talking about this series. And I felt deep in my gut that there was a chance the Nuggets might really go sideways. Like, I bet the Clippers tonight.

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I just, I don't know if the Nuggets think they're good. I mean the Nuggets. I don't know if they believe in whatever they're doing. And you can kind of feel it. That game got away from them fast. The Clippers made a bunch of threes. I think Jokic was spectacular in the first quarter. It felt like he was on pace for 30 assists. But defensively, they're just really limited.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Their bench today... At one point... I don't know what they finished with. At one point... Well, Russ was out, right? Yeah. A foot injury apparently going on. They finished with six points from the bench. You're not going to win a playoff game. Not ideal. And they were down 20 points for basically two hours. And now, weird schedule, Quirk.

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This doesn't usually happen in the first round, but they're playing again 3 p.m. PT on Saturday. Wow. So it's 40 hours after this game ended? Yeah. And that is a make or break.

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Most of the mock draft guys just didn't think Sanders should be a top 20 pick, including, um, Todd McShay, the ringer draft guys that we have. And, uh, and Kiper was just, I, I guess like if Sanders turns out to be an awesome pro, this would be great for Kiper. But, you know, I was going nuts the year Lamar fell because the Pats had a chance to get them and,

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Wow. Chris, do you think they should have hired Vincent Hanna as their interim coach?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Westbrook saying my foot's hurt is like, you fucking get hurt walking your doggy. Be there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I feel bad for poor Edelman. I just think at this point they might've been better off just hiring actors to play, to play the coach. Just bring somebody in, bring in Ben Affleck and just tell him to be the way back guy. Wow. Yeah. Just to tell him to look like he had a few the night before and he's just going to yell at the refs and stuff. Um, I, uh,

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I have to ask the king of narratives, Chris Ryan. Oh, yeah. If the Nuggets lose badly again Saturday, I think, and combined with OKC sweeping Memphis... The narratives are going to come shooting left and right like a t-shirt gun, one of which will be, you voted for Jokic for MVP and he just lost in five and shouldn't have won day one. Who is you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Me and Russillo and probably about 20 other people, I think, voted for Jokic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I actually feel better about it because Denver has been so exposed in this series that it kind of it kind of cements why I voted for him in the first place. I couldn't believe how mediocre his team was. That's right. I really never surrender. Yeah. Now. So what else do we have for King of Narratives, CR, for this one?

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Um, you know, and, and it just, with, with Brady's advancing age, it just seemed like a no brainer. But in that case, it seemed really crazy that Lamar was falling with how talented he was in college and how he was clearly something. Everybody has picked apart Sanders to the point that I don't even know what to think anymore. So maybe he ends up in Cleveland tomorrow by the time you hear this.

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It's tough to do the down 2-1, what do they do in this offseason, but it was hard not to think of that during the entire game.

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Well, Rob, you're looking at a Michael Porter, my problem for your problem trade, right? That's probably where it starts. Do you have somebody you're not happy with? Because we have Michael Porter Jr. What about a swap-a-roo? I would say that would be the first thing they try to do.

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Yeah, when you basically have five and a half, six guys, and Russ is one of the six, and he's not even playing.

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Well, this is what I've been saying all year. And I don't I get it. America's probably not focused on the Clippers home regular season games, but they have a legitimately good home court advantage now. And you could feel it in that first half when they hit a couple of threes. The crowd was delirious. And, you know, they got hot when a team's going to make that many threes at home there.

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probably win a playoff game. But man, when Kawhi is as good as he's been, he was 21 and 11, six assists today. And Harden was probably their best player in the game. But Kawhi was still seemingly Kawhi and just seems so athletic. He had that one play in the first half when he went coast to coast on a steal. Did those two long Kawhi steps with Jokic next to him and got it in there.

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And if that happens in Cleveland, we thought maybe we'd take him at two and they get him at 33. They desperately need a quarterback. That's a really fun outcome. He got, this is great for, I was thinking this is great for us. This is just great content, right? I root for content sometimes. Sanders, chip on his shoulder now. Everyone passed me.

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And I just think the Clippers are really good. I'm just going to keep saying it. I think people have to take them seriously as... a contender. I think with the nuggets, you know, doc was on when doc was doing my pod, when, um, doc did my pod after Denver one, he was talking about how much he loves Porter and how, uh, just how happy he was for that guy and how people don't realize how big he is.

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And he can rebound. I remember him raving about him. I remember filing it away. Like, I wonder if doc ever runs a team would Porter be somebody targets. And then you're thinking about Milwaukee in this other series, uh, And that's another team that's going to be... We're stuck. What do we do? I feel like, Rob, we're at peak. We have an awesome player, but we're stuck. What do we do?

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I feel like we've hit the peak in recent NBA history. You look around these teams. We have Giannis, and we have no chance. Yeah. We have Jokic, and there's no way we're winning three straight rounds with the team we have. I don't remember... Teams with players this good just really not being in the mix. And I think it speaks to how deep the league is now.

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He's had a good series. I hope you go for 20. He's been good. Speaking of him, Ben Simmons had a couple moments in the Clips game too. Ben Simmons plus nine. Broke out a headband, made a stop on somebody and did a little like stare to the crowd, kind of yell to the crowd stuff.

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This becomes Aaron Rodgers 2.0 if he can ever be even half as good as Aaron Rodgers. We get to argue about the Giants trade back in and they take Jackson Dart, right? They pass on Sanders. That's going to be fun to monitor. I feel like there's going to be some incredible sports media stuff that happens over the next two weeks.

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Continuing his streak of dribbling hard right to the logo and then skidding to a stop and handing the ball off to a guard.

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That would be, what if we started just assigning pieces like that and telling people to just sell the hell out of them? Like somebody goes in and writes like a really heartfelt, Ben Simmons has finally found a home here. Today he exploded for zero points and three rebounds, but his defensive stop in the first half really made it. Yeah. I mean,

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Derek Jones and Batum coming off the bench is 100 times better than anything Denver has. They have seven guys. Plus the Simmons thing.

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I, uh... Do not see a path for them. I'm going to game four. I think the only way they win. Well, two things. One, the Clippers could just have a game where they go like six for three. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anybody can just suck in a game and not make any threes. And if you don't make any threes, you could lose to anybody. The only other guy I can see is Murray.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like they need like a 38 point Murray game. But when you watch how the Clippers, all these guys, they can throw at him. It's just, I think it's a tall ass. They just have too many dudes. So I think, I thought Russell and I said on Sunday that the Nuggets were up one, nothing. And both of us were like, haven't changed my opinion at all. I still feel exactly the same.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think it's going to be really hard for Nuggets to win now. I don't think they can win. Let's take a break and talk about the malice at the palace. Part two, Knicks-Pistons. Pistons-Knicks. I thought this was a potential Steve Kerr game, which is what he gave me this theory years ago. And I always monitor it. The young... We're so psyched to be in the playoffs again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Playoff team hosting the game three and the energy's through the roof. Yeah. And everybody's like, oh my God, they're going to go apeshit in this game. The crowd's going to be amazing. And then they come out and they lay an egg. They did not lay an egg. The Knicks were really good. And I think that the thing that jumps out to me, CR.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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You can kind of read between the lines on what some of the angles will be. I think people will disgrace themselves. I can't wait. And, uh, it's going to be hilarious if Sanders actually ends up being much better than the Jackson dart. But I don't, I think the thing, the legacy today was neither of those guys are even that good that people were able to get that wound up about it, but maybe, um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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the shot distribution, which was a big topic the last couple days because you have all these really good offensive players and you have Jalen Brunson in game two shooting 27 times and taking 12 free throws. I went on terminating Eddie's show yesterday and I, we were talking about like, Hey Brunson, you had 37. That's not necessarily a good thing for your team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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If towns looks like he, you know, wants to go listen to Morrissey after the game and, and, uh, you know, OG and nobody has 10 points, like maybe get maybe a little more distribution. And it's basically the Isaiah Thomas mid eighties Pistons rule of, yeah, I could have scored 35. But I scored 23 and three other guys on my team had an awesome game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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So the shot distribution this time, 20 Brunson, 18 Towns, 17 Ananobi, 13 Bridges. All four guys had 20 points and up. And that to me feels like the balance. So my question you see are intentional or unintentional?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Are you guys enjoying this? How much of this has to do with the Knicks-Sixers series last year almost torpedoing your friendship with fantasy? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Okay. What's your take, Rob, on Jalen Brunson? One of the league's most unlikely underdog stories ever. Now getting the backlash.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Maybe tomorrow, but look, I root for as many good movies as possible. I root for as many good TV shows as possible. I root for as many good point guards as possible. And I root for as many good quarterbacks as possible because I like watching football for 11 hours a day on Sunday. And over and over again, we have too many shitty quarterbacks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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I went to a Celtics-Knicks game maybe January or February, I can't remember, and was talking about how I hadn't realized that he'd become the best flopper extraordinaire in the entire league. A lot of the Knicks fans got mad about it. They're like, fuck you. How dare you? He's worse than James Harden.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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It's like, yeah, because it's not just him like driving in the basket and flailing to get a call. It's all the stuff he's doing off the ball. It's when somebody sets him a pick and it's just a lot of him throwing his arms up in the air. But it's gamesmanship and it works because he gets the crowd fired up, especially in a playoff series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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I thought the crowd was awesome and there was this great moment, the first of many altercations in this game, when it got heated and you could hear the crowd, the decibels of the crowd, everyone was so excited there might be a fight. I was trying to think, is there an arena that is more ready to see a battle on the court than Detroit?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ironically, they had the biggest one of the century, but they were just like, let's fucking go. Let's drop the gloves. They thought it was like a Red Wings game. We're not allowed to fight in basketball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Isaiah Stewart's like, I should have just worn my jersey because then I could have gone on the court easier.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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You know? So if I'm the, if I'm Detroit, I thought the Knicks were going to win this in four or five. If I'm Detroit, I feel like I'm in the vicinity of this series. It's the opposite of the Denver game. Even if you look at the box score, they got a really good hardaway game. They got a solid Cunningham game. Typical for him. Some turnovers. They had a really good Schroeder game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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And I continue to wonder why Miami didn't want Schroeder. I'm just going to ask that in every podcast. Miami's like, we're good. Now they don't have Terry Rozier. They don't really have a point guard. But Tobias was the one. He had five points, two for nine. He was the one that had the bad one. They're in these games. I think all of these games are going to be close.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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I don't see a blowout either way. I like the matchup of the two, but it feels like Detroit's What do you think, Rob? Like two hairs below? Three hairs below?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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And I hope Shador Sanders is good because we need more quarterbacks. But we'll see. Hopefully he goes to Cleveland or a team that needs him and he gets to play. And we'll find out why he dropped to 33. Another angle, Kim Ward. Poor guy goes number one. Usually that's like... I can't, we're talking about him constantly. Oh my God. What do you think? How good can you be? What's the ceiling?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I did not vote for him. You know, I voted for Jokic because he's the best offensive player in the league. And that's the ball of the time. I did see...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Yeah, he's been a bunch of late game shots. You didn't like that pick?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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The Boston fans are mad because I didn't vote for Pritchard for sixth man of the year. So am I a homer? Am I an anti-homer? Who's to say? I don't know. I'm all over the map. The Schroeder piece, C.R., When can this guy just find a home? I love having him in playoff series. Is he just like, he's like automatic QB and Thanksgiving. He's just going to bounce around every playoff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Oh, I thought you were going Durant right there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Don't do that. Don't do that. Why not?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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That's what it looks like. The Tibbs part is the key part. Is it the roster or is the roster plus Tibbs, Rob?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Also, why aren't you doing it with Bridges and Towns? It doesn't just have to be Brunson. Bridges is good at that too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Can he turn Tennessee around right now? Nobody, there were no K more conversations. I think I did multiple draft podcasts. I don't even remember talking about him. He goes, number one, gets immediately overshadowed by this Travis Hunter trade. Then there's the Sanders is falling drama that just over overtakes everything. And then the Giants take Abdul Carter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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CR, who is, when Townes does the thing where he intentionally starts some sort of altercation and then does the evil laughing thing, is that Garcia in Internal Affairs? What movie character is that for you? Cobra Kai person? Who is that? What movie villain? Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I do enjoy it. I don't know if he's ever actually been in an NBA fight, but he's always like getting around it in the mix of some of these. It's pretty funny.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I'd like to earn him this series. It was the full Towns experience. I thought he had a really good game. But then, of course, he couldn't resist having the terrible foul at the worst possible time with like two minutes left. Don't forget, I have to... It's almost like when my dog jumps in this little fountain thing we have every once in a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He gets super excited and he jumps in and then he looks at us like... I had to guys. I'm sorry. I just, it was sitting there. It was cold. I had to do it. Towns has to like, he just can't help it. He has to have the one foul in the last three minutes and he has to almost get it out of his system. I think this series goes six.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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six so you think Detroit gets one more here yeah I think I'm gonna lose one of my bets was Nixon four or five and I think I think Detroit gets one more right they get a game where they shoot really well Towns gets into foul trouble we haven't had a foul trouble game that's the other thing with these game fours the league can get a little creative with some of this stuff Lakers Wolves game three CR can I have your animosity rankings for round one

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, can we, can I have a couple other candidates?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Dame Halliburton has to be riding high, right? I was going to say Bucks Pacers just straight up. Oh, you're going straight up team versus team. Yeah, there's a lot. I would go Dame Halliburton, but also team versus team. And then, you know, it's bad when they just cut to James Johnson randomly when he's not even really playing. Like he's over there. Just lurking in the corner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then they trade back for Jackson Dart. So once again, we're not talking about Cam Ward. And plus he's on Tennessee. A team that's not very good. And a weird start to your career. But hey, good for you, Cam Ward. I have no idea if you're going to be good. I was reading some stuff where people thought maybe he would have been the fifth or sixth quarterback last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That guy's a fucking maniac watching over James Johnson. Yeah. He'll kill you. Yeah. Bucks Pacers is way up there. I think Seltz magic is starting to like they've made Al Horford badge, which is impossible. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. They made Al Horford mad. Yeah. Which happens like three times a year. I was kind of shocked by that. I don't know. One of the most popular nights of Celtics, probably the most popular Celtics teammate of the last 15 years. And he was ready to hit KCP with a two by four. His sister's going at Magic fans on Twitter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, don't you feel like that has a chance to go up a notch because the way they're guarding him with Van Vliet. Well, Van Vliet, we haven't really seen him have a moment with Dylan Brooks yet. There's going to be no Butler in game three. So Draymond's going to be in that mode. Like I've got to do more. Um, yeah, that's a good one. Oh yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think bucks Pacers is the most inexplicable one though. I don't, it's just a bunch of nice guys on both teams and yet they hate each other and it feels like it's going to be the anchorman brawl every time, every time it gets heated. Um, I'm trying to think of anything else. Maybe some Lou Dort Memphis game four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um... I told Cerruti and Kevin Clark that I had worked up a proper amount of hatred by basically the halftime of game two for the Magic and for KCP. And they said, don't worry, we also hate KCP. Because he's been... I think he was like one for 100 at that point in the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, they've hurt too. I know. They hurt Tatum and... It's a contact sport, Bill. Porzingis got split open like it was a fucking steel cage match against Roman Reigns.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, my dad was so upset. He sent me some of the funniest texts just about Patadze. He was like, who is this guy? He just comes in and fouls people. I don't think he's been logging a lot of Orlando magic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I mean, we always talk about movie coolers, right? Like Swayze in Roadhouse was the best one ever. And then we've seen people try to rip off that gimmick over and over again in movies. And James Johnson's the real life cooler, it seems like. Well, he's the same Elliot at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And instead he goes one this year. We'll see. My guy, Will Campbell, who I talked myself into officially today. I did a YouTube short. Look, the Pats need a left tackle. This was the case I made in the YouTube short. If they're picking eighths, I would have been delighted to get them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But he's still wearing a uniform, right? I guess. Or does he become an assistant coach and do it that way? It's practically what Rick Brunson did tonight. It was true. So tomorrow we have Boston, Orlando, Indiana, Milwaukee, Lakers, Minnesota. Which one are you more excited about out of those three, CR?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Lakers, Minnesota. That's been one of my favorite series so far.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, so when I was talking to Eddie in Germany yesterday, Eddie was thinking, thought Giannis and Milwaukee can come back and they're going to win the next two and this is going to be a long series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I just don't see it. I just think Indiana is just significantly better than them. And the way that the way that Milwaukee wins game three, Giannis has a big game, but you could almost spot him the big game. And I still think Indiana wins. But the game that's looming that hasn't happened yet is the Indiana fucks up the game in the last four minutes game. We have not had that yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, this is combined with. Well, combined with. You know, Milwaukee home for game three. Sure. That's that's a game where you're probably going to get some calls. And I could just see this one being like, man, I can't believe we're not up 3-0 right now. How did we lose that? It feels like it could be one of those. It's possible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, so game two, what are they up 17? And then all of a sudden it's a two point game. Like they just have a lot of those. Yeah. Yeah. Where it's just like, how did you let this team back in there? Um, Lakers, Minnesota, what I'm watching for after going to game two is just, um, is Edwards going to get involved earlier than he did? Um, There was some interesting Gobert.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We have, uh, our final draft guide with the, all the grades, everything's, everything's happening in the ringer, uh, NFL draft show, McShay show. We're silos tomorrow. Uh, go check out all of it. I did some NFL draft here at the top. Uh, I gave my thoughts and just randomly. So Rudy and van joined and we talked about, uh, Sanders and darts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It didn't feel this way at the game, but there was some interesting Gobert actually defending one-on-one against LeBron, Luka. I think it was LeBron. Maybe it was LeBron and Luka, but they were basically four for 13 when they went at him. Reeves had, I think, a little more success. I felt like Minnesota did not ever want that to happen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And if you look at how the draft broke down, we had tackles taken four, Membo to the Jets at seven, Banks went to the Saints at nine. Nobody thought Banks was going to go in the top 10. Well, he did because everybody wants fucking left tackle. And that was why Will Campbell had to be four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and they were in complete panic every time gobert was you know in isolation with those guys but i i'm gonna be interested to see if um they just keep doing that or if there's an extra wrinkle i didn't like what i saw from connelly at all in game two so what is that just hard for him to play two games in three days what do we have with that there was some interesting shannon minutes in that game that i wonder like yeah yeah could he swing it from an energy standpoint

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I still, Rob, I just still feel like the Lakers are really limited, man. That's like a team. That's a team that has five and a half guys. They have no rim protection at all. And they're just putting this incredible burden, burden on LeBron and Rui to basically protect the rim and rebound.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That I don't know if sustainable, but wait, are you seeing anything else?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I thought he was just too tentative. And I talked to somebody involved with the team at halftime and I was like, what's up with Ant? said his shoulders bothering him and seemed like he was tentative. So I think he has, he was swinging a lot. Like he was, he was kind of like moving his arm around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There was one time he came to the table to go back in the game and he had one of those giant Norma tech kind of straight jacket things on. And it almost seemed like demonstrative. Like my shoulder hurts. Look, I'm wearing this giant contraption. It was just weird. I thought it was a weird game for him, but I don't see him doing that in Minnesota. I could see him, uh,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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coming back hard so if you is there any oh and two team you think could come back rob i don't think so is there is there any yeah i don't think the heat are coming back like i mean who else would we be talking about but the heat is very promising is rogier is he just like we're never going to see him again like what's what's what was rogier's injury I mean, he's out for the year, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the analogy I made was in 2016, the Celtics took Jalen Brown because Danny Ainge felt like the league was moving toward wings who could shoot and defend and guard multiple positions. Jalen Brown, if you remember, was supposed to be the seventh or eighth pick on every mock draft. They took him third.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think Rozier is like, this feels like it should be a bigger story. This whole Rozier thing, like how I don't have to talk about some of the stuff he was involved with. Sure. This guy went from, they traded a first round pick. He was averaging 25 a game on Charlotte to now he's, he just has disappeared and nobody even talks about him during the games. It's just,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, he's hurt. I think he might be out for at least a round or two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cerruti told me two nights ago that if Orlando paid $100 million this summer for Ty Jerome, he wouldn't blink. That was what he said. He said, if it got that high, fine. At least we got our guy. Kind of how I felt about Milton Williams and Patriots CR. It's like 26 a year, whatever. We needed a nose tackle. But Ty Jerome and Suggs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Rudy's already moved mentally to the Ty Jerome, Suggs era for the Magic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You drafted a guy with dinosaur arms. Are you excited? Little T-Rex arms? You know, I've, I've heard, I've heard the jokes and, uh, you know, he's, we root for underdogs in New England and Boston. You want to get an underdog? Yeah. I just want to know how an inch became so important for the left tackle. So 33 inch arms, he's fine, but 32 and three eighths, he's not fine. We'll find out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's how we're going to go. I remember a guy when a guy named Jalen Brunson dropped to the second round because it wasn't tall enough. If you remember that one. All right. Any last things here? What's the thing you're most excited about this weekend, Rob?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would not count out Milwaukee in game three. No, I don't think they're very good. New York-Detroit feels like it might have some legs. And then Orlando pulling a rock fight routine against Boston, maybe stealing a game. But yeah, the Clippers-Denver seems like it might be headed to being a bust. Flip it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The crowd thought they were either trading that pick for Paul George in Boston or taking Chris Dunn, who was a local Providence guy. And there were some boos when they took Jalen Brown and then he turned out to be Jalen Brown. My point is just because you got a guy who probably should have gone six, seven, eight with the fourth pick, what are they going to do? There were two drafts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I think the Clippers. Because they should probably be up 3-0.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would say out of the eight series, the only one I don't have a handle on and part of it is the Butler injury, but just the matchup is just, I don't think either team is happy with how they're playing the Golden State Houston. It's just, it's a weird one. I don't like Houston's offense. I don't like anything Golden State's doing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If Butler's not out there, I just don't think, I don't think they're good enough. And a lot of it seems to hinge on how each game is being officiated, which I never really like. And then the Rockets just had these wild cards where it's like, all right, Jalen Green made a couple of threes. So is he good now? Cause I think he could go one for 11 tomorrow night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, I don't trust basically anyone on their team. Um, and then what they're getting away with defending Curry, not to be a Curry defender, but, um, the, the league's in a weird space right now because they've been really good about, you know, letting defenders be able to letting defenders be able to, uh, Make contact, yeah. Make contact when somebody's driving to the basket or whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think they've done a good job of cleaning up the stuff way off the ball and some of the holds. And conversely, I don't think they've done a good job with the moving screens either. But it just seems like all the stuff off the ball is worse than ever. And then the physicality of guys going to the basket has actually been handled really well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I just think the Rockets are getting away with crazy shit against Steph. I don't like it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, what about the rebound where no time went off the clock and then the guy ran the baseline next to the next bench and batted the ball, which I haven't seen in 20 years.

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It really warms the heart. All right. Well, Rob, I know you're going to be excited. What do you have for TV this weekend other than the basketball?

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Yeah. CR, have you still stole from your neighbors at all or you haven't crossed that line yet? No.

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Nobody has any nanny cams? He's got a device that turns off the Wi-Fi. We got to address this pretty soon. Hmm. All right. Thanks guys. Thanks for staying up with me. Thanks.

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All right. Thanks to Saruti and Gahow. Thanks to Van and CR and Mahoney. Don't forget about Celtic city. Eight episodes on max right now. Ninth episode is coming on Monday night, 9 PM HBO. It is the final episode of a series that I am really proud of. So please go check it out. New rewatch was coming Monday as well. We're still in our going live. on Sunday again on this podcast, uh, on YouTube.

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There were the first three guys, then there was everybody else. And if you look at the way the guys four through 12, it became one of those beauty is the eye of the beholder drafts, right? Campbell goes to New England. Graham goes to Cleveland. Gentee goes to Vegas six. Membo goes to the jet seven. Uh, Ted McMillan goes to Carolina at eight.

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So you can subscribe to the bill Simmons. YouTube channel. By the way, FanDuel's ringer player performance double profit boost token has moved to Sundays during the playoffs where you can claim a 30% boost on one of my favorite betting markets. I'll do a tweet that day. And if you don't know about those, you got to check them out. Two-leg parlays.

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Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Shedeur’s Slide, NFL Draft Takes, a Nuggets Code Red and Brunson Goes Villain

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Banks goes ninth and Loveland goes over Tyler Warren at 10. And it's just like, you could have done this draft two weeks ago and that order might've been completely different. So I just think with, with Campbell, um, They need a left tackle. They have nobody who can block. And the most important guy on the team plays quarterback.

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And if he could be the 12th best left tackle in the league, you got to do it. Now, a couple other Will Campbell things that have gotten me really excited. He talked about, I talked about this with Schrager the other day. Vrabel did put on the pads. And he did go at Campbell to kind of feel what his body was. And I had been hearing about this for a week or so.

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And Campbell, I guess, knocked him over. And Vrabel was really impressed by that. But Vrabel, I've got to confirm multiple ways now. He loves putting the pads on, hitting the guys, feeling their body mass, feeling how sturdy they are. So love Will Campbell. Grew up in Monroe, Louisiana. home of Bill Russell, not nothing. He cried for 25 seconds on stage today after he got drafted.

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I got a little choked up. He said, I'm going to fight and die to protect them with everything I got when was asked about how are you going to protect Drake May? I repeat, I'm going to fight and die to protect them with everything I got. I'm all in on this guy. There's, there's been a lot of jokes in the Boston area. It's been a pretty polarizing pick. Um, there was a tweet. I forget who did it.

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It was one of the, I think W guys that it was showed a picture of him crying. And it was like, well, Campbell's arms are too short to wipe away the tears. We're going to get a lot of that. We'll Campbell. I think it's an inch difference. It doesn't phase me. Um, I think we get in trouble with drafts when people don't fit the boxes we have for the types of bodies.

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And the reason I mentioned this, um, with a basketball analogy is because we watched Jalen Brunson on the next tonight as well. Campbell's getting drafted, who has now become one of the, I think 10 best players in the league, 10 or 12 best players. He fell to the second round in the NBA draft cause he was too short. Wasn't fast enough. Like, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm in my fifties now.

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So we talked a lot of NFL draft at the top and then Mahoney, Rob Mahoney and, Chris Ryan came on to talk about all the basketball that happened today too. It was an incredible, incredible, uh, sports night trying to follow everything. Uh, the games could have been better, but, um, just in general, Thursday, the last Thursday in April. Always a winner. We're going to talk about all of it next.

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We've been doing this with drafts my whole life. What the center's an inch too small. Draymond green falls to 37 in the draft. Cause what is he? Is the center? Can he shoot? Um, these guys don't fit in boxes. And if Will Campbell has been awesome his whole career and the one catch on him is his arms might be an inch too short. Like guess what? We need a left tackle.

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Hopefully his arms start too short. So I'm in on this pick. I'm going to defend it. I signed off on it. I think they did the right thing. I also think nobody wanted to trade up. So, um, that was it. So Loveland went over Ty Warren to the bears at 10 because, uh, Ben Johnson, he always needs a tight end.

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Meanwhile, anyone who spent $30 on Samuel Porter and their draft last year, wanting to, wanted to punch themselves in the face. So we'll see how Loveland does. Um, I don't know. Is that... Are the Bears falling victim to... We have Caleb Williams. Let's just keep drafting offensive weapons and not building a right team around him. We'll see. They spent a lot of money in the offensive line.

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I didn't love that pick. But the picks that I did love... And granted, I parachuted into this, but I did really get into the draft this year because of the Pat situation. I really thought they were going to trade back. So I was kind of looking at 20 guys and doing the deep dives on them. So the picks that I did like...

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Jalen Walker fell to Atlanta at 15, and he was one of the ones that seemed like he was a fast riser down the stretch, and he was even getting rumored for a second at four, and Peter Schrager was doing his whole, to a man, people will tell you that this guy just wows the room. He's one of those, like great character, wows the room guy. Fell to 15 to a team that never seems to have a pass rush.

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So I really liked that pick for them, and it just felt like they got good value. I loved Hampton to the Chargers at 22, who everyone thought was the second best running back in this draft. And maybe some people felt like the distance between him and Gente wasn't really even that significant. This guy just seems like a kick-ass, bang the line, keep the chains moving guy.

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And they needed somebody like this. And I just thought at 22, that's where you want to take a running back. And then Matthew Golden went 23 to the Packers. I'm just going to say this. I, I'm going to make a prediction. I think he's going to be better than McMillan. Uh, and I'll get to McMillan in a second. Um, and then I'd like that.

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Uh, I like that Houston was able to trade 25 for 34 99 and a third round pick because the giants got excited about Jackson dart, who might be a career backup. But I thought that was smart that they were loading up on picks cause they need stuff. My favorite dumb trade was, uh, Atlanta traded number 46, uh, number two 42 and a 2026 first round pick to the Rams for number 26. And, uh,

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I just, I love having the Falcons with this current administration in the draft. It's like in my, in my vote out draft with Sal and those guys, we have our crazy friend Brad's in there and you just never know where you're getting every year with Brad. This year he took like nine or 10 running backs and it was just like, of course he did. He's Brad. That's basically become the Falcons.

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Nobody moves up 20 spots from 46 to 26 and gives a first round pick. In a draft where by the time we got to the mid-20s, I don't think anyone was doing backflips. I thought that was hilarious. I thought it was a very fun draft for glass half-empty stereotypes. Will Campbell has short arms. Gentee runs with his pads too high, apparently. Heard that one a couple times.

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Yeah, man. It's been fun. I appreciate it. I appreciate your support and all of it. We're having a good time. It's been a whole different world, right? I didn't know anything about this world, but we've enjoyed it. And now we're kind of turning the page. We have the NFL playoffs and then the NFL draft. And so we're kind of hitting our sweet spot.

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Yeah, they did. And what's wild, too, is all the complaints about the 12-team playoff and All the adjustments we have to make and the seating's a mess and it should never be conference champions. But at the end of the day, Ohio State wouldn't have been in it in the previous four-team playoff structure. And Ohio State... was clearly the best team. And it took them going on a run.

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The Michigan loss is a Michigan thing for Ohio State. It's not reflective of the program and what they are. I mean, that's almost a headspace that they're going to have to deal with. But that was the best team. And it was... Everyone talked about, well, they bought a $20 million roster. Well... They just used a lot of that $20 million to keep the guys there that were there on the defensive side.

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And yeah, they added a running back in Quinshawn Judkins, and their quarterback, Will Howard, was a really good fit for what they do. But ultimately, the vast majority of that team was there, and they just kept a lot of guys from going to the NFL and having to take pay cuts to do so.

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Gun to head, I would say college football. Okay, so why? Why college football? What is it? I guess I grew up on it. My grandfather worked with Bo Schembechler. I grew up in Boston, outside of Boston, Swanscott, small town north of Boston. But he had worked, he lived in Ohio and helped the recruiting area of Northeast Ohio.

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And so I was around that Michigan program and kind of just understood like, you always hear like the pageantry, but it's like just how important that is. And it was weird growing up here, right? Because like it's all pro sports here in New England, all pro sports.

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Right. And so just being around that, I kind of was introduced to something that was different than what we grew up around, you know, living in this area. So I don't know. I just have always loved like going to games and the tailgating and how important it is and the flags flying as you're driving through a town and the crowd and the atmosphere. It's just home to me. It really is.

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But the personnel part, like I just I became obsessed with. in my 20s when I started in this business, just evaluating, all right, which of these guys can actually go play at the next level and building a roster. So that's kind of how it all developed for me.

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Not this version, man. I mean, I'll go back to what I said last year before the draft. If you're dropped on this planet and you could only base your evaluation off of one year of tape, like the 2023 season, Jaden Daniels was clearly the better prospect, right? Yeah.

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But throughout the process, there was Jaden Daniels at Arizona State, which was kind of this running around backyard football, all about his legs. Occasionally, he'd pop a pass down the field. And then he got to LSU. And even early on there, like I remember being on the field with Brian Kelly before the Tennessee game, okay?

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And Tennessee came in, big favorites, and they wound up blowing out LSU in that game. But I remember being on the field with him and watching Jaden and having watched his tape and just saying like, what do you see in practice that I'm not seeing? Because it looks like he can make all the throws, but he just doesn't seem to trust it. And the anticipation isn't there and all that.

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And he said, watch the first play of this game. Just watch because we're forcing him to make this throw. I'm not going to tell you where it's going, but we're going to force him to make this throw because we're trying to prove to him that if you just trust your read and your eyes and you get the ball out on time, you're special. You're different than anything we've been around or seen.

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And so the first play of the game comes, and of course I'm on the sideline like peeking over, and it's a deep comeback route to the left side. And he gets back top of his drop and just rips it. And if it gets picked, it's a pick six. And at that point, he hadn't thrown an interception. And everyone in the local media was just, oh, this Jaden Daniels is great.

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He hasn't thrown an interception through five games. How good has he been? And Brian's point was, I can't wait for him to throw an interception. Like, it's driving me fucking crazy. The media is talking about the interception thing. But the reason he's not trusting is he's so concerned about throwing a pick. So anyway, ball comes out, perfect throw right on time completion. And you saw it there.

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Like that was like the first step in his confidence. Like, you know what? If I trust what I'm seeing in my instincts, I can build from here. And he just kept getting better. And then the following season was 2023 and he just took off.

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It is inconceivable because history says it's almost impossible to happen, right? Right. What he's doing now, Bill, is so far beyond what you're allowed to expect from a rookie quarterback. I went back and looked, right? No rookie quarterback has ever led his team to a Super Bowl, right? Right. There have been five others who have led their team to a conference championship.

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And I want to rip off these names for you. Sean King.

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Ben Roethlisberger. And I want you to think back like when they actually were rookies.

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Correct. Joe Flacco. Same deal. Mark Sanchez. Brock Purdy. Now I want you to think about what we just saw last week. And then there's a whole other list of guys in their second year. Six of them since 2000 have actually, in their second year as quarterbacks, have led their teams to a Super Bowl. Brady, Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Russell Wilson, Joe Burrow, and Purdy.

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I would say of that group, Burrow probably carried more of the offensive load on his shoulders than any of those other guys. I mean, Brady back then. We were protecting Brady.

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And so then you think about what, what Jaden's doing and under pressure and not just beating the pressure with his legs, but with his arm. And then you think about like the vast majority of the run place too. I think this kind of goes unnoticed in the NFL with how quick the defenses are and how fast the action of play is.

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He's having to make reads in the run game too, with his own read option and all the possibilities there. So every snap, He is making decisions that a rookie quarterback usually doesn't have to have that much load put on them. And he's doing it at such a ridiculous level. That's why this is by far, I think by far in my lifetime, the best rookie quarterback performance I've ever seen.

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And CJ Stroud, it was awesome. But this is different, man. And the supporting cast is not to the level that it should be for a rookie quarterback to have this success. And honestly... I like Washington. I'm going to go with him. I think I am too. I think something special is happening. Here's the weird part. I trust him more than I trust Jalen Hurts.

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He is. It's going to be interesting. Like, I don't want to go too deep in the, in the mud, but like, Please do. We're here to go in the mud. Philly lives on first down running the football.

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I think I've read like 71% of the time on first down they've run the football in the postseason. And it was damn near that close in the regular season. It's all about staying on schedule. And I think in part because they don't trust their quarterback. Right? Yeah. Because if we're in third, they're one for 11 on third down conversions in the postseason when it's third and seven or longer.

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What does that tell you? You know what I mean?

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Right. And they could. I mean, they could. But I also, like, Washington has gotten to the point where they're one of the top teams in the NFL the last, like, second half of the season and in the postseason with a run blitz on first down. So, like, it could become a war of, all right, when does Philly take a chance, play action first down, and can Jalen cash in?

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You know, and, and again, if you're betting on Jalen, is that the bet you want to make?

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Yeah, especially with that number, you know?

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I'd love to see Washington jump them early.

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You know, a quick strike early in the game, kind of knock Philly back on its heels. Yeah, I just think momentum's crazy. Confidence is like... is so much of this and we've lived through it our whole lifetime. Like when teams get on a run, forget the seeds, forget the Vegas spreads. Like there's something about that momentum and like the belief in what we're doing.

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And it just feels like Washington has that. Now, again, they could walk into a buzzsaw, Philly jump gets out and has a big play early on. And now, now they can run the football and get a lead. But, but I just, I don't know. Something special is happening and happening in Washington. And I don't want to be on the other side of it anymore.

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Uh, Oh one, the first Superbowl. Yes. I just moved back from New York. I lived in New York. I went to school in Richmond, lived in New York for two years. I came back just honestly, I think five, six months before. So I was there for the whole run.

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And Eckler looked like he had juice, right?

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Like a couple years ago, when he was in his, I don't want to say prime, but when he was at his peak, a couple of his runs, I was like, oh, shit, Eckler's back.

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Oh, you're going there. Cause I think I'm picking Casey. Good. Good. I want everyone else to. And you know what? It's kind of like when your mom says to your kid, how many times are you going to burn your hand on the stove? And as life went on, I think I've come to realize I'm going to be the one who's going to burn my hand more.

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I remember watching that game and waiting to see, cause they were up for Buffalo was up for it. So every time an opponent has, has a lead over Kansas city in the fourth quarter, There's always that middle of the fourth quarter or a little bit past the midpoint of the fourth quarter, they get a drive. The opponent does. And there's some level of...

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conservative play, whether it's playing for a field goal, whether it's dialing it back, not being aggressive. The mentality has to be, we're down four. And that's what Buffalo did. They've lost three games to them in the playoffs. They've found ways to lose. They've had games pulled away from them, all of it.

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I saw kind of the switch in the mentality in that Week 11 game where, all right, we've got the ball. I forget exactly when they got it, maybe like six, seven minutes left in the fourth quarter. They're down by four, but if you didn't know the score, you'd say, oh, they're – I'm sorry, they're up by four.

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But if you didn't know the score, you would have said they're down by four points in this game because it's not by three. No, they're down by four is the mentality they had because they had to score a touchdown. And they drove the field. They went forward on fourth downs. They were aggressive the entire time. And they put the game away.

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Because what teams do all the time in that fourth quarter drive is they take for granted. It's assumed. It absolutely has to be assumed that when Mahomes gets the ball, it doesn't matter how much time is left, they're going to score and they're going to score a touchdown. So if you play with that math, it was important for that game, but I also think it showed that the Bills get it.

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They get that we can't turn the ball over. We can't give them extra possessions. And in the fourth quarter, we are full steam ahead, most important drive to save our season, even if we have a lead. And I just think the way Josh is playing, I think this is – we're witnessing –

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Again, it's impossible to say I'm confident or I have any confidence in it with Mahomes, and we know what they do. And like every good organization, they get their quarterback, and they have drafted defense after defense after defense.

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And if you put a great defense on the field, which is what has been Brett Veach, their GM, and Andy Reid, their philosophy, the second they got Mahomes and realized he was the guy, if you go back and study their drafts, it's like four of the first six picks defense. Three of the first four, five of the first seven, six in a row defense.

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And they've loaded up on that side because the quarterback's going to take care of all the problems on the offensive side.

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So we've got to have a great defense because we don't have a fixer on that side. And so that's how they built this whole thing. And so, but I look at Buffalo and Buffalo, like defensively, they're not as great as Kansas City is, but they've done a lot of the same things. They've sacrificed their offensive playmakers for their defensive talent.

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I think they're better up front in the defense than they maybe have been in previous matchups. I just, I don't know. I think it's their time.

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He's good for those in these moments. That's been the problem.

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Kelsey's the whole deal. Kelsey's the whole deal. He's the whole deal in this game. If you go back and look, he clearly has not been the player this year that he has been in the past. But you go back and look at those wins, the three times that the Chiefs have beaten the Bills. He's averaged nine catches per game, 96 yards, and almost two touchdowns in those three games, right?

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The Week 11 game that we were talking to, I want to say he had two catches for eight yards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Especially this year when he was not... I took a lot of heat for it, but I know him, right? He was not in the shape that he's been in a lot of other years. He just wasn't there. So they were getting him to this point. Had an awesome game with 117, right? Last week. So... Terrell Bernard did an amazing job in coverage on him. So that's going to be the matchup you want to watch in this game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The linebacker for the Bills the first time around. He also had the interception in that game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3140.017

Yeah. So, I mean, to me, because when Mahomes gets in these games and these types of situations, it's cute that we've got a burner and Xavier Worthy's here. You know, like all these other bells and whistles and all the things we want. But he's going to rely on himself. and Travis. I mean, it's been proven.

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He would rather extend a play and dance around and do some things and wait for Kelsey to find a soft spot versus in those moments, in the big moments, if you really watch it, he'll turn down opportunities with other guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and say i i can create a little longer i'm going to wait for travis because we have to when he has to have it that's what he tends to do so i think i think kelsey is going to be the the key to this game and not i know it's not breaking news but like he i think we kind of got lulled to sleep well they you know they're winning games and travis hasn't been huge this year

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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top of every draft going going down they have two third round picks like why can't this be them next year what are the reasons that can't happen I mean what Jaden has done is is unbelievably unique and special but it's Drake's second year and he has shown he's he's different That last year's quarterback class, man, when you go back and look at it, I'm just excited to see it develop.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But like Pennix looked pretty good. Bo Nix, Bo Nix, there's a cap on Bo Nix. But he's definitely an average to above average starter. Yeah, and it's the perfect situation for him with Sean. But the whole group, you know, and now Ben Johnson comes to Chicago and, you know, that's a whole different conversation. They're set up for that kind of success.

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I'm not saying make a Super Bowl run, but they are set up to be a surprise playoff team. To maybe be a 10-win team? To be a surprise playoff team next year. From a team that was a game away from having the first overall pick to maybe potentially making a run. Here's the hard part.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just talked about the defense, and Vrabel certainly will have his finger on the pulse and make the final decisions, but he will be pushing towards building a great defense with a great young quarterback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we'll pluck a receiver here. We'll grab a retread running back there. And we don't need to put a ton of money in that right away unless they go out and get one of the, you know, the top free agents or make a trade at wide receiver. I don't even know that that's going to be their MO, but we'll see.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But at the end of the day, what we saw from Drake May was all you needed to see to be resuscitated as a Patriots fan. They have two assets in the entire organization. I said it. It's Drake May and Gonzalez at cornerback. And Vrabel now. Now we have three assets. I'm saying before the move, before they changed over, they had two assets. And I was screaming, protect your assets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3429.386

Don't play them in that final game. You and I were texting. They should never have had the coach coach that game. Gerard Mayo should never have been in that position. But here we are. Now you've got the fourth pick. And it's not all going to come down to the fourth overall pick. If Abdul Carter was the fall to him at four, it would be...

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I don't want to say a miracle, but the odds are it's not going to happen. Right. They desperately, in my opinion, need one of the quarterbacks to fall to them. Cam Ward or... Yeah, so let's talk about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yes and no. Because you're sitting there four. Tennessee has a quarterback need. Cleveland has a quarterback need. And Giants have a quarterback need. But Tennessee said they're taking the best guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That might be posturing, but... Bill, how long have you been in this game? I'm not saying that they won't. And maybe eventually they will. But since when has a team come out with the... In mid-January? If it's a generational talent, we're going to say... That's NFL speak for, hey, come and get the pick. If not, we'll take your guy. They want out of that pick.

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Just like the Patriots would have wanted out of that pick. Because they realize they're... There is no Drake May in this class. There's no Jaden Daniels in this class. There's no Caleb Williams in this class, right? So let's try to get out of this pick and let's build it like Detroit built it, like the Eagles have built it, like San Francisco did, like the Ravens continue to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All the organizations building on defense and offensive lines, right? Yeah. And so I think Tennessee is going to try to follow in those footsteps and try to follow the blueprint and try to get out of that pick and get more picks in a draft where, yeah, those are the top three and they're elite players. But even in recent drafts, you could say there's better at those individual positions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So usually the quarterbacks drift up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An Official Celtics Funk, Plus Todd McShay and Million-Dollar Picks

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Yeah, one of two things is going to happen. Either both the quarterbacks are going to go to one of those three spots and Abdul Carter will go. And then Travis Hunter is your pick at number four. Unless you can move out of that to get additional picks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So trade back with Vegas at six or the Jets at seven. You know what I mean? Or the Saints at nine. Sure. If one of those two quarterbacks falls, right? Yep. That would be the dream scenario. I think the worst scenario is Cam and Shador go in the top three picks and Abdul Carter is gone as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Who's a wonderful, he is a generational type talent, but you're only getting them on one side of the ball for the vast majority, right? And you have him as a cornerback, right? I think he's actually a better wide receiver than he is cornerback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But if you're going to try to play him and get value from him on both sides, you better play him as a cornerback and then put in some packages for him, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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six Charles Woodson had like two you know like so there's not a there's not a history of of someone actually being like consistently you know that productive yeah so last year's draft

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3761.058

I think, I think the conversation starts at four with, with JJ. Okay. There's no conversation with Caleb, Jaden, or Drake.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think it starts at four. Most teams had J.J. McCarthy as the fourth. Some teams were higher on him than others and believed that he was maybe the second or third best quarterback in the class. I didn't... I thought he was the fourth best. Um... I think, see, the interesting part is this. The best pure passer in this draft is Shador.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Layers the ball, ball placement, good instincts as a passer, processes things real quickly. Doesn't have a great arm. not a very good... The weird part is he's Coach Prime's son. He's not a great athlete. He extends plays, but his instincts in the pocket get him in a lot of trouble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then you've got Cam who doesn't... I don't want to say he doesn't process it as quickly, but he's been in these systems where he hasn't had to go through all the reads. I don't think he can get himself out of trouble as a rookie in terms of understanding where to go with the ball. He's not as consistent with his accuracy. He makes more poor decisions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He'll make a play or two a game where you're like, oh, no. Will Levis type shit, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An Official Celtics Funk, Plus Todd McShay and Million-Dollar Picks

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But he's a better athlete than Shador. He extends plays. His arm angles, the way he's able to get the ball out, he's got a much better arm than Shador. So traits-wise, Cam is the guy if you can develop him. But if you're asking compared to last year's class, I think it may go J.J. McCarthy for... And then I would say Cam Ward-Pennix. And then Shador kind of Bo Nix. Like, in that range.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I think so. And I think it probably, it could have happened that way, but I don't know that Minnesota would have even gotten rid of him. I think they would have sat on both. Had he played great down the stretch. It was shaping, I'm actually frustrated because it was shaping up to be one of the most fascinating personnel decisions you could ever make.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But the problem is with the salary cap, like, you're now preventing your organization from building everywhere else by keeping Sam. But then are you going to gamble? You have this sure thing. If he goes and plays well, like you said, two playoff games, they lose, but he's through for 260, 270.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like, all right, we got a guy. We got our guy. And so that would have been unbelievable to watch. It's amazing what two games did to his value, you know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It'll be interesting to see how much money he lost, too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An Official Celtics Funk, Plus Todd McShay and Million-Dollar Picks

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Why is everyone overlooking him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't want to bore you with an offensive tackle, but... No, let's hear it. Josh Connerly from Oregon. Everyone's talked about this Will Campbell guy who's a guard tackle from LSU and Kelvin Banks, who's a really talented player from Texas. I think Josh Connerly might wind up being the best left tackle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4037.676

I think he's up there. Wow! He's... unbelievably athletic the way he moves he's gotten better with his hands i think he's got a chance to be a star from this class and nobody i haven't heard or talked to anyone who's who's quite as high on him as i am so keep an eye on connor lee were you high on cole strange a couple years ago or no Not as high as the Patriots were. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think more like I think he winds up going mid first, but, but if, if people see what I see, then, then maybe he goes, he goes somewhere around 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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run of dudes. We've had, we had a historic, almost decade of run, run of, of wide receivers. Like every year. Yeah. Five first round, almost surefire. Like a lot of them, you know, like all those Alabama guys, like, you know, when you look at them and then Ohio state guys and the LSU guys, like all from like five programs of the vast majority.

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It's not like Teteroa McMillan from Arizona is really talented, but yeah, But I wouldn't put him up. He's not like Jamar Chase. I see him mocked at like four or five, and I have a hard time going that high. Luther Burden's a burner, but drops a lot of passes, inconsistent. The best wide receiver in the class is Travis Hunter.

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And after that, I think there's a lot of guys you like late in the first and second round, but I don't see the value where you're going to have to pick for him. I just don't see. Last year was nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, it's possible. It's possible. But damage gets done as a rookie. It really does. And it's hard to overcome that. Sometimes it takes a change of scenery, and sometimes that's not even enough. What Adam Peters did at Washington, from the hire of Dan Quinn to the coordinators, Jaden was the easiest decision he had to make. How about Mike Sanderstrom? Right. Two interceptions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Drafting him as a rookie. Yeah, what round was he? He was... He wound up going second. Yeah. Yeah, he wound up going second.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The conversations I had with a lot of NFL teams was, like, you guys in the media are missing. I remember in, like, about this time last year. They you-guised you? You-guised us. Oh, no. You-guised me, yes. Like, we're having real conversations and fights in our draft room. Like, when we get together our meetings, we just had a January meeting. Like, it's a war in our room.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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about Jaden versus Caleb. Wars. And a lot of teams I talked to, you know, at the end, before they saw the product on the field this year, so it's not like, you know, revisionist history. We're like, yeah, we would have taken Jaden.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's third, you think? I think he is 10th.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Daniels first, May second, then Caleb.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is there a fifth quarterback in the NFL that you would take over Jaden? I saw that conversation the other day. Yeah. Would you rather have Burr or Jay Danos?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There is the second year thing. Like Stroud grinded through it, didn't have as much protection, all that. So they've got to avoid the second time around. Team's having a full offseason to study his tendencies. If he gets through his second year and is playing at this level, then we're in the clear.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Of course I do. Do me a favor at some point when you have a Freeman moment on your hands this week. I think I told Saru to you about this too. You got to go on Twitter. There's just like, do a Jaden Daniels Looney Tunes. Someone put together a great reel of him. Of all the times he just got popped?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's one thing to get popped, but the way his body parts are just flailing everywhere, because he's so lean and long, it's hysterical. It's worth a laugh. Yeah, it concerns me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Jaden pops up so many times. He's so flexible and that's just who he is. But he hasn't learned that yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Brady figured it out. Yeah. That's the whole thing. It's flexibility. Like that's why like the Brady Quinns and like the guys who are like Tebow's. Yeah. I just, I can't. Will Levis. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The dudes who look awesome with their shirt off and look like they can outbench Rosillo are the ones I really worry about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4505.429

I went to that Patriots Jets game. I brought my son.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An Official Celtics Funk, Plus Todd McShay and Million-Dollar Picks

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To see him live in person now compared to what he was two years ago. you know, like the MVP level version of Aaron Rodgers was, it was scary.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And to see Drake May before the concussion and how, how mobile and in control he was, it was like, Oh, so that's, that's next. And that's, that's my two takeaways. Like that's next. That's done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I could see him wanting to. I just don't. Why would you invest that and bring in that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh, I'm not saying he won't. I agree with you. I'm just saying, why would you? With everything that comes with it, too. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, my man. I'm glad to join you. I appreciate you having me in this ringer gig. I'm loving it. It's been fun. Great. We love to have you. Thanks. Thanks, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?

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My son was like, who the hell is Jon Stewart? His son is like seven years old. He's cursing me out. Yeah. The kid was cursing me out. What is this asshole?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?

5673.576

Oh, yeah, dog, dog, dog. That is the most humongous loss the Knicks have ever had. Dog, you're never going to see a loss like that again in the garden. I haven't gone to the garden since 1908. I saw...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Jon Stewart on a Knicks Disaster, the Soto Era, His ‘Daily Show’ Comeback, Bad Biden Coverage, and New York Fans | Plus: Is an OKC Title Now Inevitable?

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She's the greatest at all time. She's the best. What is Towns doing? What are they doing? Towns, drive the lane.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

0.189

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Wherever you like to watch the game, at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold Michelob Ultra. And, you know, we've done some stuff with them. So they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens. People come over, they want a beer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

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You can find all of it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. This Monday coming up, we are going to do a Christmas movie. We did Home Alone 2. It was with Kyle Brandt. It was the first time we'd ever done a podcast together in the same room. So that part was fun. But this is, we had a blast doing this one. So that's coming on Monday. You'll be able to watch that actually on Spotify.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1083.617

It's just not fun. So I'm thinking like with the cup, what this ties into another thing that makes me mad is they're so afraid of football. to the point they take inside the NBA, which is just the Thursday show. On Thursday nights, I watch the NBA and they're like, we have to move it away from football. Football's eating our lunch. They move it to Tuesdays. Doesn't feel the same.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1107.52

They have this NBA cup. They decide the semifinals are going to be Saturday because it's the one day we can kind of get away with not going against football. And then they keep everybody there for three fucking days because they don't want to go against a Monday night doubleheader, which by the way, was Minnesota against Chicago and Kirk Cousins' corpse against the shitty Raiders team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

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It's like, why are you afraid of that for? Maybe go try to beat them head to head. But they're doing all this stuff where they're just retreating and they're so scared of the NFL. And meanwhile, it's like, maybe you should try to throw some counter punches. Like, the NFL is going to beat you either way. Like, even the WNBA, which we thought it was all crazy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1145.959

The WNBA playoffs are going head to head against the NFL. Guess what? They did okay. They had fans. Like, people had... They had their own fan base and people... Watch that shit. So, House, why are they so scared? I just feel like when you operate from fear, you're going to lose every single time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1223.7

That's what makes the most sense. Yeah, you're talking 70-game schedule instead of starting near the end of October. you're starting maybe like third week in November, you're easing into it. And then you really kick into gear and Christmas. Cause one of the things I was thinking with the cup was you made the point earlier, the games are, the games are all really fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1241.744

The courts are fun, but we've only had four games in this super complicated scoring system trying to lead to, Oh, and then these four teams made it. And this team didn't make it because their point differential was plus 36. How about this? Have more fucking games. Like instead of four NBA cups, let's have six, let's have seven, let's get it so that it goes all the way through.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

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And you can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. You can watch all the videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And we just launched a Ringer TV YouTube channel that's got the Watch app. It has the Prestige TV pod, has a bunch of fun Hall of Fame stuff and like direct to video stuff that we did. That's where we did the Landman thing last week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1264.58

And then we get to January and then the week to do it. In my opinion, there's that week between the conference title game and the super bowl. It's a dead week. Nothing's happening. Football has finally calmed down basically starting Sunday night and just try to own that week. Right. You have like you basically have a clean slate. You're going against nothing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1285.381

You're going against you're not going against college football. You're not going against anything and make that the signature week. They're going the opposite way. Not only do they wrap up all this stuff, but the trade deadline is on the Thursday of Super Bowl week. That's another one I don't get. The trade deadline is one of the most fun days of the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1300.801

You're just burying it in the Superbowl when all your media members, all your corporate, everybody is just talking football, football, football. So I just, to me, there's, this is just easy structural stuff I don't get.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

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Or would you? Because maybe Atlanta is one of the best teams in the East. Maybe you would get Atlanta.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1414.179

Well, House, I mean, we go so far back. We remember when like USA and ESPN started showing cable games, right? We were like... Oh, it was amazing. All the teams. Oh, my God. That's what a Clippers arena looks like. You just you had no idea. And then the SportsCenter highlights are taking off at the same time. We were just so starved for any sort of NBA action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1439.542

Now it's flipped the other way where, you know, it's like having the most full fridge possible. I was telling somebody the other day. I feel like I watch as much basketball as I ever did, but I watch it completely differently now. I don't care if I see the ESPN game on Wednesday night as it's happening. But what I do is I try to watch as many fourth quarters as I can.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

1459.099

Or if like I'll I'll look at the game recap and I'll be like, oh, Houston did had a 37 to 10 run in the second quarter on Wembley. I'm like, all right, I'm going to watch that and I'll just queue it up. And it's so much more on demand. And House, I don't feel like that reflects in the ratings. So when they say the ratings are down, I'm not positive I believe it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

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So please go subscribe to that as well. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where we've been doing these 30 on 30 profit boost tokens every Friday. I've been boosting 30 point scores for you. If they get to 30 points and you bet it, you get boosted. I tweet out my picks on Friday and I did really well the first three weeks. Last week was not well, but it was weird.

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Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

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I do think that they have a star issue, which I talked about Tuesday. House and I didn't miss Michael Jordan in the 90s when he played a playoff game. It was non-negotiable. You didn't miss Jordan in the playoffs period. Unless like you had a substantial event that superseded it. Otherwise you watch Jordan. They don't have a guy like that now.

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So I sign up for that. Everyone I've ever mentioned that who's in any sort of decision-making ownership, they're all like, Don't even talk about that on a podcast. It will never, ever happen. It's too much money. There's no way. And it's like, you guys already made all this money.

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It was one of those weeks where there wasn't a lot of scoring. So be sure to claim the PBT, place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Just look for 30 on 30. on the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Coming up, gonna talk to House and Big Waz about the NBA Cup. Big picture, did this work? How can we fix it? What should it look like next year? So we did that. And why has the NFL cast such a shadow over the NBA?

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Like I say, you're saying like national games, you get your own team. Like if you live like house in Washington, he gets to still watch the Wizards.

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But maybe you get to pick like three other teams and then if you want the whole package, it's like $1,000. And it's just like completely prohibitive. There's some idea there that make it I'm not against that house. Or maybe they're just... That's it. You get your own team. You can pick three other league pass teams. Other than that, just enjoy that.

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I think he's right. I remember we did the Juice WRLD doc for HBO and Max. And it was just like, it just got pirated out of control. And that was the first time I was like, oh, wow, this still was happening on like a major level. But you're right.

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Especially as we head to this next era where you're going to need Amazon, you're going to need Peacock, you're going to need cable to get ESPN or whatever the ESPN package is. And you'll have to pay for the week pass stuff too. I mean, it's our job. So we get all this stuff, but yeah, it's, I've said it a thousand, hundred times. The schedule is the number one way to fix this. And they won't.

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They just won't. It would make it more special. The guys would be playing. They'd be healthier. Even what they did recently with this weird bye week where there were no games and stuff. It actually made me miss the NBA. I was like, last night, where the fuck is the NBA?

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It makes me mad. Anyway, we talked about that too. Then House stayed for million dollar picks. Then Peter Schrager came on to talk about dysfunction with the Jets, the weird Christmas schedule, and all the strange coaching stuff that might be happening pretty soon. It is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, it's 2 p.m. Pacific time.

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You're right, it's beyond the franchise. Sportico did this thing in the franchise values, which I always think are corny because there's no real way to know. It only takes one dumb person to be like, here's 11 billion. But they had the pie chart of how the Celtics... I think it was Sportico. Maybe it was somebody else.

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They had a pie chart of all the Celtics' revenue because they don't own their own arena. And they had it earmarked for the Celtics making $102 million from the playoffs.

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Assuming they made, you know, got to like four rounds. And you could see it was like, Jesus Christ, that's a... crazy amount of money. But I, you know, that's part of why some of these bigger market teams, they go all in on luxury tax because they feel like it's almost like a bet. You know, can we make that money back the longer the rounds go?

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I, if, if they put me in charge, I would at least go to 70 games. I mean, you could talk me into the 60 would be even better 62, but they won't. This is something Steve Kerr has been Steve Kerr at one point. I think he like hand wrote a long letter to Adam Silver, like in the last year, like it, like it was like the 1840s. Like he's dear Adam, it is Steve Kerr.

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I'm here on the, on the outskirts of Wyoming writing a letter with a feather and a pen. Um, but he wrote a letter, like just like basically begging him to cut the schedule down. And I remember talking to doc about this last year when he got back in and he was trying to take over the box and, And he was just like, we just don't practice. Like, I just got here. Our staff's changed.

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He's like, we still get to practice and I don't get to play as much golf. But he was saying, and this is something any coach I've ever talked to, they always talk about this. There's these schedule bumps.

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where you just can't work on anything and you end up like in a hotel conference room in some banquet room running through like how you're going to do, how you're going to charge the guy with the ball and shit like that. So I don't know. All right. So short term, Vegas next year for this or no was?

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So maybe the answer, if they strung it out to six games instead of four, they moved it to January, and they really, this is going to be a direct contradiction of what I said about not being wusses about going against football, but you target that week between the conference championship and the Super Bowl, which we know is open every week. We know when it is. So this year would be February 2nd.

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How about Tuesday's the quarterfinals? Then we go to Vegas Friday, Sunday, the week before the Super Bowl. And it's just Friday night doubleheader. Sunday's the final. Everyone just goes to Vegas one weekend. You're in Thursday or Friday morning. You're out Monday. You're not going against football at all.

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You have six games instead of four to determine exactly, you know, you're going to get the right order probably of the teams in some form. You might have one outlier. And the only thing we would know for sure is that the Washington Wizards won't be there.

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It can't be, it can't like really be, you know, Emirates airlines could fucking get private jets for everybody.

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Yeah, the PJs for the fans. Oh, the party plane. Not the money. OKC party plane. Did we lay it on this for a fix? Six instead of four. Target that weekend before the Super Bowl weekend. And maybe have the trade deadline right after on like the Tuesday.

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They go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or, I've never tried one of these. I've heard you talked about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious. There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket. Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra. a superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly.

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The Nuggets can't even trade for Jimmy Butler, who would probably be dying to go there. And they can't do it with the fucking apron. It's like, well, Zeke Nagy has to be in it. And please don't look at Michael Porter's back x-rays. And we have no pics. Yeah, it's really sad. All right, Woz. Great to see you. Who's winning the title, by the way?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Is the NBA Too Afraid of Football? Plus, Jets Dysfunction and Million-Dollar Picks With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Peter Schrager

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Joe House is here because we're going to do Million Dollar Picks in a little bit. Big Waz is here. He was just in Las Vegas for the NBA Cup. Is it still going or is it finally over?

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I think, unfortunately for them, I think OKC might be their kryptonite team. That's the one team that just too much speed athleticism. I guess what they have going for them is just Jalen Williams and any game that means anything.

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They're going to be in your mentions, Bill. Oh, Lord have mercy. Just have one awesome game when there's a real spotlight on. Come on. Who are you talking about? Jalen Williams. Jalen Williams. Yeah, right.

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He stunk in the Dallas series last year. He stunk in the second NBA. I just, I have a lot of Jalen William stock. I'd like for him to come through. I mean, the other reason they lost, they just couldn't hit a three, which is now happening.

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You think he's going to be all right? Yeah. I have OKC Dallas. I still feel like I want to see what happens with the Butler trade because see, Butler's clearly, this is happening soon. And if Houston got him without, changing too much what I like about them, I'm intrigued by them too. House, can you imagine Imei

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And Jimmy Butler, how fucking alpha that team's going to be if they keep doing Brooks. They're like a biker gang.

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And E-May looked at LeBron and called him a bitch and asked him what he was going to do. That happened last year. Put him and Jimmy Butler? I just think that's happening imminently. So we'll see where he goes. All right, Waz, great to see you. Later, y'all. Come back with million-dollar picks. Sometimes in basketball, 30 points can be worth more than 30 points.

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Right now, you can get a 30% profit boost. from the ringer with fan duels, 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. We've been doing this for the last few weeks with America's number one sports book, a 30% profit boost. I'm going to either pick a player to score more than 30 points or better on our new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets line. Like,

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You can bet on both teams to score 30 plus points in the first quarter if you wanted to. Look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sports app or head to fanduel.com slash BS for your chance to score a bigger payout on Friday. I'll be tweeting out my picks on Friday. Had a great first three weeks. Didn't do well last week, but hopefully we'll make a little bit of a comeback. It's really fun to bet these.

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Don't miss your chance to find out how much more 30 can be worth. with FanDuel's 30 on 30. Must be 21 plus in present and select states or 18 plus in present and DC. Opt-in required, bonus issued as non-withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration and max wage or amount. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling problem?

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Oh, is that what happened? Yeah. So walk us through the Vegas piece of this and whether it's a good idea, because I really I really want us the three of us to help the NBA. I think the NBA needs help in a bunch of different ways with their scheduling and some of their idea generation. But what what worked for you in Vegas and what didn't work for you?

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Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. All right, house. Week 16 is here. We had a rough week 15. First time I got my ass kicked by a weekend in a while. Lost $510,000 for million dollar picks, but we're still up for $1.254 million. And I like a lot of the stuff this week. The only thing that really changed for me last week, and I was just wrong, like Pittsburgh, Philly, whatever.

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Like some of the losses, like whatever. I just had the wrong side. I get it. Seattle Green Bay, I had way wrong. I thought like this is the time Seattle is going to show everybody that they might actually be like a little sleepery. And instead, Green Bay absolutely kicked their ass.

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And Green Bay, I almost wish I had gone into that game thinking one of these two teams is going to emerge as the NFC sleeper. I was shocked by how they got their ass kicked. What did you think of that game?

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Tampa Chargers. I stayed away from that. Thank God. Yeah. The Seattle defense. They had done Arizona twice and the Jets and the Niners when they were banged up. And it made us kind of threw us off a little bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. So when I was going through the games this week, you know. look, if I'm going to lose a week, I'm going to go back to the drawing board. I'm going to get back in the lab, try to figure out how I can get better. And I was really looking back, really trying to go over some of the numbers versus the schedule and who played.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And so like we have these Saturday games, Texans, Chiefs, Mahomes isn't playing. Texans are favored by two and a half. Mahomes comes back. It seems like now it's Chiefs by three and a half in Houston. And the numbers would say, hey, watch out for Houston in this game. They have the number one defense in DBOA. They're going to be able to really pressure the Chiefs.

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They just haven't played enough good teams. And they haven't looked good in the games they've played. And I'm just looking at this going, are the Chiefs really going to... They're really just going to lose in Houston to this Houston team that can't seem like they can stay out of its own way offensively, that can't really block...

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And definitely unquestionably has a good defense, but I don't want to say they're the good, bad team, but they're kind of one level above that, but below the Chiefs, Ravens, Bills level. You know what I mean?

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The other thing that worries me about it is Just when the team also then has to play on Wednesday, I just don't know what that does. We talked about this a little last week. I don't know what that does mentally for how you have an edge for that game, any of that stuff.

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And yet I don't want to stay away from the other Saturday game because I think we see it the same. The Ravens minus six and a half Steelers. I want to, there's a lot of like stuff with Lamar and watch out at the Steelers on him. And I think without Pickens, I just, I just don't see the Steelers getting there. You would have to be,

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almost the greatest hits of bad Raven Steelers games from a Baltimore perspective, miss field goals, Lamar doing something dumb, the, the tipped interception, all kinds of stupid shit, the 50 yard pass interference that the Steelers gets, give them a new drive. And as we, we stayed with, we stayed at the craps table with the Steelers, I think one way too long last week. Yeah. They're 10 and four.

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Yeah, but they're still making the playoffs. Yes, they are. And Baltimore lost them already. So if you're taking Pittsburgh, you're saying we're almost taking their touchdown underdog. On top of it, they would be beating Baltimore twice in the same season. They'd Baltimore be nine and six after this. So they wouldn't, you know, they'd be like a six or seven. I don't know.

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I just think the Ravens win. And I don't, I don't want to lay the points. I just want to take their money line and put it with stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. All right. So we're marking down Ravens' money line. Ravens' money line. That's the way to play it. So I have newsflash for you. I want to do either all money lines or adjusted underdog lines this week and tie them with a couple games. But let's hit the games really quick. Eagles minus three and a half against Washington. This is another one where I think I just like the money line.

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I just want to grab the Eagles money line and put it with something else. I don't trust the hook. I don't 100% trust this Eagles team. And I bet in this situation before, as have you, where you bet the Eagles and Jalen Hurts just has a super weird game and has some weird injury that they're not sure how much he's hurt and he's throwing a triple coverage.

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Yeah. This comes down to two things. Other than the Philly being way better than Washington. They have the best running attack in the league. Your team is 28th against the run. Washington is the third best running attack in the league. Philly's number one against the run. Your team hasn't looked really that good in six, seven weeks.

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And you've been calling it out week after week, talking about like, yeah, the schedule's catching up to these guys a little bit. They were overachieving early. It's starting to come back to earth. I just don't think they're in the same ballpark as Philly. I don't trust the hook. I don't trust the cheap TD. I'd rather do Philly Moneyline. Anything make you nervous?

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They're playing for a one seed. It's not like they're like, oh, I don't know. Should we try this week? Like they were trying to get a bye week.

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Those are the two games. Although, taking Kirk Cousins' corpse out of there, you're probably sad to see him go.

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No, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Yeah, Kyle's going to have to bleep that. Viking Seahawks in Seattle. And this isn't a reactionary. Seattle sucked last week. So I want to now go against them again because we really try not to do that. If anything, that's like the worst thing you can do. We try. I am a petty better. Yeah, me too. And Seattle, I'll be honest.

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Bye-bye. It was, it started like four, one o'clock West Coast time by 1.30. I was like, all right, cross that off. Yeah. So I just think this is a horrible matchup for them. I don't like the matchup at all. Minnesota's defense, Minnesota's ability to throw to either receiver, have explosive plays, mix the running game in. And I also think Minnesota's good. And the line is Vikings by two.

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I think this is Vikings are a top five team. Seattle's we learned last week is somewhere in the middle. And this is just bad luck. They played Green Bay and the Vikings back to back at home. And those games are just really hard. And I think the Seahawks are going to lose.

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Or like injured Gino doesn't sound great to me either. I don't even like 100% healthy Gino that much.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Metcalf got hurt and just hasn't looked the same. Lockett, I guess, is at like a different point in his career. I'm not sure what happened to him. Kenneth Walker got hurt. So now it's like just one running back. And then, you know, JSN's been their awesome receiver. But that's only going to take you so far. All right. So we agree. We'll take the Vikings are minus three.

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And I don't care because we're going to use the money line for them, too. Yeah, fine. Great. Uh, so a pass on the Raiders pass on the lions. I looked at long and hard at Rams jets for the jet side, uh, I thought when it was three and a half, the Jets have actually been playing pretty well lately. Yeah. I don't trust the Rams. A lot of momentum behind them going west coast to east coast.

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But I just don't want to bet on the Jets, especially with all the dysfunction this week that I'm going to talk about later with Peter Schrager. This athletic story that came out. And Garrett Wilson today gives a quote later in the afternoon about, do you think you'll be with the Jets last year? He's like, honestly, I don't know. There's a dysfunction... smell from them that I don't like.

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So I feel like that's a stay away. But what's not a stay away for me is another dysfunctiony team. The 49ers in Miami.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The Niners, I feel like probably should be favored in this game. As weird as their season's been. Adjust it on FanDuel to plus four and a half. I think we can get a little frisky with some people I want to put them with. But just fundamentally, Niners plus four and a half. Does that sound appealing to you?

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3454.753

San Francisco first half game is plus 165. I'm just mentioning that. Let's see. So minus... The odds just aren't great for those. It's unfandled minus 112 for the minus 2.5. They don't. Well, they... The Christian's going to get mad at you now. I know, we just can't get any value. Yeah, well, they know. That's like a smart move to bend it. So they want to keep you. So the money line is plus 106.

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Plus 106. So it moved a little bit. It moves a tiny bit, but not enough to me. You're just better off doing the plus 106. But I can also offer you plus four and a half at minus 215 that we could put with Usyk. One of the many things I want to put with Usyk.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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3504.26

That's what I was thinking. Well, I was going to do this later, but let's just say that Niner's plus four and a half with Usyk is plus 141.

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Yeah, he's like minus 145 range. Okay. All right. Well, we'll come back to them. We both like the Niners. I really like the Bengals, but I refuse. I'm just not doing it. I'm just not. I don't trust them. Great instinct. Just stay away. Good luck today. I know they have a chance to make the playoffs depending on what happens with Denver tonight.

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They are a leg in as a money line. Well, that was my question. Do we do Bengals money line? I just don't trust their defense. Oh, you can't trust it. It's the quarterback now. I don't know what that's going to look like. Oh, I have an idea. I have a suspicion. Cards minus four and a half in Carolina. I watched the cards pretty closely against the Pats. They're not very good.

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I don't like that's ridiculous Bucks Cowboys another stay away with that Bucks defense and then the two big ones for me the Bills to beat the Patriots and the Packers to beat the Saints on Monday night no Camara Rattler's gonna put I think I wanted to vote week 16 to just that being in every bet that we have. Both of them are minus 1100 on FanDuel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And could we use those teams together as swing bets with other money lines that we like?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Pats, home for the Bills, are getting 14 and a half. DeBundo today on The Ringer and his excellent gaming column recommended the Pats plus 14, cold weather, blah, blah, blah. I just don't see any scenario, like Barmore got scratched. I don't see any scenario where the Patriots beat the Bills. Like, none. All they've been doing all week is talking about the coach.

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And then Packers-Saints, Monday night, Packers still playing for stuff. Saints, I don't know what they're playing for, but you got to watch them firsthand last week. Did they impress you in any way? No, no.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, so going back to where we were before, Bill's money line, Packer's money line is the anchor. We're using the anchor strategy this week. Love it. Put that with the Vikings money line, minus 104. Okay, that's a nice even money play. Put that with the Eagles money line, minus 120. Fine. You put that with Usyk, minus 104. Yep, see? We're doing it.

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And we laid out the main strategy on Tuesday about Usyk, why it just... Just all in on him. We could also use Usyk as an anchor with the Ravens money line. Ravens money line Usyk plus 121. Niners plus four and a half with Usyk plus 141. Jets plus 7.5 and Usyk plus 128. My bad. Ravens, Bunny, and Usyk was plus 121. So all of those are plus, and now we just get to move that shit around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm going to take the Jets off for reasons we discussed, but we do have the other two. Can't do the Jets. So Niners plus 4.5, Usyk plus 141. And then the Ravens money line, maybe that's the move. And I think that's it. We just use anchors of Usyk, undefeated, the best boxer of the last few years. And then Bill's Packers money line parlay. And we just go. I mean, this is great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That's an incredible wildcard weekend. Buffalo, Cincinnati. That's our Saturday night Amazon game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cincinnati with Usyk. Minus 102. Great. Great. Great. All right, so we're putting a lot on Usyk. Jesus.

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How's the finals watching on TV? It reminded me not a little of the bubble. Oh, interesting. Where the crowd was like blacked out. I couldn't really tell if the audio was bad or if people were just in a coma. I couldn't tell how many people were there. And Giannis was just killing it. Obviously, he killed it the whole time he was there. But It just something about it doesn't work.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm on the record. Usyk and Pereira in the UFC. I'm just betting them every time they decide to do combat until they lose. I'm doing the blackjack. I'm stacking my bets on those two guys. And it's been working for multiple years. Okay. Usyk hasn't lost ever. And he's been so much fun to bet on. This would be the wipeout. Million dollar picks. Week 16. We are up $1.254 million.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Coming off a bad week where we learned some lessons. Looked in the mirror a couple times. Don't take bad offenses. Explain the anchor strategy to the audience one more time, House.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So we're using two anchors. The first one are the Buffalo Bills just to beat New England in New England and the Green Bay Packers just to beat the Saints. two of the worst teams right now. The Pats are one of the four worst teams. Saints are one of the 10 worst teams. Putting those two money lines together with the Vikings, with their money lines. So the Vikings are minus three in Seattle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we're just going to something about the minus three. We're just going to take the, let's just take the money line on it. Take the money line. Sam Darnold's due to throw a pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're just covered. Just win the game, Minnesota. So that's minus one Oh four. No offense to Seattle. We still have a bunch of bets with them. Nice little hedge against our bets too, though. That's right. And then the other one is the Eagles money line, which if you put with the Bills and the Packers, the Eagles just to beat Washington, they're minus three and a half point favorites.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You put those three together, minus 120. So we're going to put 200K down on those two events. 200K on each bet. Next one, the Ravens money line on Saturday against Pittsburgh. This will probably be a weird, ugly, strange game. The weather's going to be freezing cold. Bad weather. It's a Derrick Henry game. We don't like the Ravens minus six and a half. Just the money line.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We're putting that with Alexander Usyk, who hasn't lost in his life, as a parlay. Plus 121. Excellent. Excellent. We're going to put 200K on that. Niners. Niners. Plus four and a half adjusted in Miami. We get to bet against Tua again. What's more fun than betting against Tua and the DJ, Mike McDaniel? It's great. Niners adjusted plus four and a half with Usyk is plus 141. We'll put 150 on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4085.525

Fair enough. And then Bengals money line with Usyk. That's minus 102. Bengals just to beat the Browns and whoever the hell is on their team this week. No Nick Chubb. They're on their third quarterback. I don't know if they're trying to tank. I do don't know. They had their first round pick. What do you want to put on that one? 200 or 100? 100's enough.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, we'll do a little 100K just for fun because it's Sunday and there's no games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm sure it works if you're there, if you work for the league, if you're in the teams is like, this is great. We're all here. But I feel like there's a better idea. So where'd you stand just on the semis and the finals?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The anchor strategy. You don't want to put Chiefs plus three and a half in this? Chiefs plus three and a half. With Usyk?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, I just looked it up when we're doing this house. Chiefs adjusted to plus four and a half with Usyk to win. Plus 112.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I kind of believe in that little redheaded former assassin, Carson Wentz, to be good for one game and to try to get himself like a three-year, $50 million contract as next year's Baker Mayfield with somebody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4180.319

No way. I'd actually be excited if he played. All right. That's our last one. Chiefs plus four and a half with you, Sick. 100K on that. Those are the Million Dollar Picks. for week 16. So you did a fairway rolling end of the year awards with our guy, Nate?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Did you give the Hawk to a here's my Bitcoin? I'm going to take all your money award or was that that wasn't handed out?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, how about the new live commissioner is the brother of somebody who is our favorite basketball player we ever played with at Holy Cross.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's a great guy. Tremendous. We really, really love playing with his brother. He's got to be retired at this point. Who, Sean O? Yeah. There's no way he's still playing in his mid-50s. It was so great to just see him and be like, oh, man, let's get on Sean's team. Let's get on Sean's team. Nice little bounce passes on the break. Great stuff. All right, House. Happy gambling.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We will see you, I think, next year. We'll be here next week for Million Dollar Picks. Fingers crossed. All right, we're taping this. It is 2.30 Pacific time. Peter Schrager is in our New York Spotify ringer studios looking super snazzy. This is the most professional we've felt in a while. Really weird stretch of the schedule right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We have two Saturday games with teams that are also all going to be playing on Wednesday. Do you think the league will ever do anything like this again? Is this a one-time thing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, and then you have, it works out for the Broncos because he's like, yeah, yeah, fuck it. Let's go. We'll go right in. And meanwhile, the charges are all banged up. Yeah. So you're giving them three less days to heal, which I thought probably was an unintended consequence. Yeah. Over and over again, it just seems like everything's working out great for the Bills.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is, I don't know how they pulled it off. But the KC, the whole Mahomes goes down. Then Netflix is worried about their Wednesday game. But then Mahomes, I heard Raheem say this on the Rear Gambling Show today, where Mahomes is like LeBron, where he gets these injuries and it seems like he's going to be out for six weeks. And then he's fine two days later. He's just one of those guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4504.56

Well, you know why we know he's going to play? Because the line moved six points.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There's one other stake beyond the one seed and all that stuff. It's Mahomes kind of lost his spot in line this season. And now he's turned into this, well, when the playoffs come, he's going to turn it on. But I think just from an entertainment standpoint and from... honestly, a ceiling standpoint. Allen and Lamar Jackson have just been better. Even Burrow's been more fun to watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Mahomes is just grinding these games out. It always looks like he has seven injuries. And he's having one of those seasons you have when you're 37, but he's still in his 20s. And he's played a lot more games than probably some other quarterbacks the last few years. And the weapons have been in and out. The tackle situation has been dicey. I get it. But it's just interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just think Allen and Lamar have blown him out of the water during this regular season. But you also feel like we're going to get to the playoffs and Mahomes is probably going to yank it back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I did a thing on Sunday with Sal about the year Allen's having and how actually it's a bad sign for Buffalo Super Bowl hopes when you have these teams with the awesome quarterback having the MVP year combined with a defense that can't really stop anybody. The signs are bad.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Copyright 2024, Anheuser-Busch, Michelob Ultra, registered light beer, St. Louis, Missouri. This episode is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Seeing a band or your favorite sports team in person is great, but it could be even better with the Chase Sapphire Reserve card.

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Yeah, I went through it just in general. But then this week, Aaron Schatz had a tweet. What's he got? About... Basically, in the last 30 years, 11 teams went 9-5 and then made the Super Bowl. And the reason he did it was because for DVOA, which has been an essential part of kind of studying falling football most of the century, the Ravens are 9-5.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They're shoved aside a little bit right now, I think, especially as Buffalo's gotten the thing, but... 11 out of 30 teams have made the Superbowl and some good teams like 2016 Atlanta was nine and five, the 2002 Raiders, you can go on down the line, 2023 Casey last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I don't know the fact that they're number one in DVO way and not being talked about, they have this Pittsburgh game coming up this weekend. Um, there's six and a half point favorites against Tomlin and the Steelers when Lamar has struggled against them, you know, for his whole career basically. But, um, I do wonder if they're starting to get a little sleepy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like I was looking at their, their title odds, their AFC odds, and maybe they're the undervalued team. Cause everyone's on green day now in the AFC. That was, I was a week late on that one. Maybe it's Baltimore and the AFC. What are your Baltimore thoughts?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Chris Boswell headed for 200 fantasy points. Yeah, so Baltimore's first in offense. Pittsburgh's seventh in defense for DVOA. And yet Pittsburgh got their asses kicked by Philly last week. And I thought it was a more alarming game than a usual loss because they lost in ways that I wasn't

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just weren't on my bingo card, like them just getting manhandled, them giving up a 22-play drive to basically finish the game. But if you're a Steelers fan, you look at it and you go, well, we got screwed on that penalty where there was clear video after of the guy. They're just like punching our guy. Darnell Washington, yeah. And then they're driving down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It seems like they're going to maybe tie the game and Najee fumbles. And it's like, yeah, we're a little closer there than you thought. I thought they got pushed around and manhandled and beaten up. And now they're heading into these next two games, Saturday, Wednesday. This just feels like this all flipped at the worst possible time. What are your Pittsburgh feelings?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Part of me wonders, and I've been riding them the whole time. Part of me wonders if they outkick their coverage a little bit this season, just in general, you look back at some of the games they won, some of the schedule stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Their most impressive win was probably that first Baltimore game just for really pulling it out and seeming, but that it just shouldn't matter this much that George Pickens is hurt. I like George Pickens. he's their biggest threat though.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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4995.975

I know, but it just, it shouldn't be just an absolute deal breaker to be able to, you know, cause then they're running the ball all the time, but they're running it for three yards of carry. Cause everyone knows they have to run the ball. Let me like, cause my, my thought is like, I wonder if this is a Lamar, a Lamar, oh, I can't beat Pittsburgh. No doubt. Here we go. And he looks great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5018.096

Pittsburgh loses again. And it's like, holy shit, Pittsburgh's in a... I'm trying to think of whatever narrative comes out of that game. And that feels like a likely narrative to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5099.028

On FanDuel right now, Allen's 9-1, basically. He's a 9-1 favorite. And Lamar is plus 650. And that feels out of whack to me because Lamar having an awesome game against Pittsburgh. And then what you said, everything else he's doing is going to be major games. Josh is going to be on my top right multi-view for the Pats-Bills game, and that's about it. He's just going to be in witness protection.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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With all that said, there is another scenario where Lamar sucks against Pittsburgh again, and Pittsburgh wins 18-16, and Justin Tucker misses a couple field goals. The whole thing. Speaking of awards, I wanted to ask you this. Yeah. I hate when people do interviews and they say, I wanted to ask you this. I should just ask you. My bad. I'm still trying to get better at this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Coach of the year. Ooh. Do you know who the favorite is? Have you looked at this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5156.361

So he is. He's the only one with minus odds. He's minus 190. Dan Campbell dropped a little bit because his entire team got hurt, apparently, last fall.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5167.609

I guess the pregame speeches only go so far. Sean Payton, six to one. Dan Quinn, 10 to one. Tomlin, 15 to one. McDermott, 30 to one. And then you have to press the see rest of the bets link. to go on FanDuel to go to Sean McDermott 30-1, Sirianni, Bowles.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5244.737

We are underestimating it because he's the 10th best odds on Fandle right now. And apparently nobody's betting on him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5274.638

You think like, All the weapons they lost, the fact that they had the bullseye on them all year, all the close games they played that they had to pull out. I think he would be my number two choice. I actually think what O'Connell's been doing on Minnesota, that team is so well coached and so well prepared.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Salvaging Darnold and turning him into a guy that's now probably a $30 to $35 million a year guy in the open market.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5323.849

Yeah, he also said a few fourth quarter like they need to drive through.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5355.12

Yeah, they are the one seed. They would have all the tiebreakers. I mean, Detroit probably needs that one seed more than any team has needed a one seed in a while. I don't know how much it's going to help. I might be off Detroit right now. I don't know, man. Would you say that somebody had the graphic of all the people on IR by each team? Detroit had 22 guys. I have it here. Detroit had 22.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5380.697

Then the next team was the Browns at 18. Yeah. And the Dolphins and Giants at 15. So the Lions had basically, if you go to like the fifth most IR team, they have almost, you know, 60% more than like the fourth place. I've never seen anything like it. I don't even know. I know you have some Lions connections. Do they even have an explanation for how they can have this many injuries?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5405.159

No, it's heartbreaking. Do you look at the training staff and go, are we doing something wrong?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5431.678

They could basically do the Buffalo where they just outscore everybody. But what really made them special was that Montgomery-Gibbs combo. I know. It was a top three running back situation anyone had. Now they don't have it. I know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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5502.978

the Pats had a year like that where like Troy Brown was playing Nickelback and just, it just felt like everything was going wrong the whole year and they still almost made the Superbowl, but they had the Brady Belichick infrastructure. It's a little different. Jared Goff was never won a Superbowl and Campbell was never, you know,

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But we've seen teams, the Colts had years where it just felt like their defense had passed the point of no return and they were somehow in the AFC title game. I'm not willing to rule them out, but I got to say the Montgomery thing, that was the one that made me go, because their defense sucked anyway. They were going to have to win, like Buffalo's going to have to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but you know what's been lost though? I think if they're healthy, I really do think they win the Super Bowl and they're the best team. I think starting the year for whatever their talent was in this situation and the guys at the points of the careers they're at, I think they had the best team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, that's why I care about this as a topic because fundamentally the premise behind the tournament works because the games are more fun to watch. So you start there. You said something that I think is a bad sign for the league and maybe ties into the stuff I did on Tuesday on my pod.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think that's why it feels so wide open now because sometimes you just... Remember there was that year, the year Brady got hurt, 08. Yeah. When all of a sudden we just ended up with that weird Pittsburgh-Arizona Super Bowl. It's like, what the fuck is this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Don't you feel like something weird like that could happen this year? I'm prepared for like any Super Bowl matchup, right?

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If you're just saying talent now for who's left, It seems like the Eagles have the most talent in either conference, just all sides of the ball. If you're just going to do a ranking of grading all the players. And yet I don't even think the Eagles fans, even the Eagles fans have like their guard up with it. And there's always seems to be some weird stories popping out and chemistry stuff.

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And so part of me wonders, is that a red herring? And then the other part of me wonders like every time there's smoke like that, it never turns out well for the team. So I don't know what to think of them either. They would have to be the team that if gone to your head, you would pick, but I don't feel good about it.

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Oklahoma City is the best team in the West, and they have Shea, who's the fourth best player in the world or the fifth best player in the world, depending on what your rankings are. Giannis is the second best player in the world, maybe the first best player if you want to have the Yoko Giannis conversation. I don't want to do that here.

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Yeah. Even watching the Eagles, it doesn't seem like a team that's having like the most unbelievable time ever together. And I don't know. You notice different vibes from different teams. Maybe they'll come together. I wouldn't rule it out. But you did make me think of something. And maybe it's like two weeks too early to figure this out.

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But who is the best candidate for the nobody believes in us team in the playoffs? Because that Eagles team is a great example that 2017 Wentz goes down. Everyone writes them off. Oh, they're done. And then they it's it's the it's the force that has been kind of the most dominant playoff force year after year after year. Is it Detroit? Does Detroit have the best nobody believes in us case?

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The thing with them is they're the, no, no, fuck you. Nobody should believe in you guys. You guys are barely winning every game. I saw you losing the Jets on a Thursday night in person. No, it's your fault. You can't even score 20 points. You can't block. I would say KC last year was a good example of this when they lost that Raiders game. People were like, I'm out. I'm out.

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And he's playing out of his mind, and it's the most fun version of him that he's been in a game. So on paper, it's a great matchup, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee. And yet you laid out like, oh, it's too bad the Knicks weren't in there. It's too bad the Warriors aren't in there. Maybe that's just what the league is.

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Yeah, because I think Pittsburgh is maybe entering the waiting room for this combo, especially if they lost to Baltimore this week. They're like, all right, we're done. They're out. Fun run. I can't believe you won 10 games. You guys are out. Watts hurt now. And then Tomlin feeds off that. But yeah, I would say Detroit has to be the odds on favor for it.

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Maybe Tampa too, with just not being considered at all. And Tampa's had some good wins. Their offense is excellent. Like they're over 400 points already, you know, and they dropped 40 in the chargers and

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You know who didn't write them off? Me and Sal, because they were in such a bad division. Nobody is allowed to be, even Carolina, you could barely write off. Is seven wins going to be our champ in this division?

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Yeah, we're getting that. It's under 30. We're getting that. The, uh, the panics cousins thing was coming for a while. And I knew when they did that mile an hour stat for cousins, it was 36 miles an hour. It was just, you could, you could see it the way they called the game with the Raiders where they just weren't going to let him do anything. Is there any way to spin this?

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Like if like, let's say I'm Arthur blank. How are you spinning this to me? That is it, is it like, Hey, look, this is why we had to invest in Pennix. Like these are assets. If you go one for two, it's a win. Like what, what do you say to Arthur Blank at this point?

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And even when I was going back and trying to figure out all the unicorn situations that have happened over the years, Almost every time it's somebody in a big market, right? It's Magic and Bird, Boston, LA. It's Michael Jordan in Chicago. It's Kobe and Shaq in LA. It's Curry and the Warriors happening in San Francisco, in the Bay Area.

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Yeah, it's weird because week one, he looked like that. And then everybody took the Eagles in week two, which is now looking back, one of the weird results of the season. The game's over. Somehow they don't. And then also Natalina has the bomb. Saquon dropped the pass. Yeah. And then it comes flying back down the other way. And it's like, Kurt's back. And it turned out he wasn't back, but.

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Look, we've seen teams get out of these giant, awful cap hit things. Russell Wilson, Denver, you know, takes a huge hit with him. And they're somehow going to be like a 10-win team this year. So it's not awful. I'm, to me, more interested. Like, this makes the season more fun now that we get Pennix. You suddenly get this new guy. With all these weapons. And it's like, what if this guy's good?

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Because, you know, they have a chance to maybe, you know, it's not a puncher's chance to maybe catch Tampa if Tampa has a dumb loss.

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I want to talk about the... No, I want to talk about the Jets after that because there was a crazy article there. So big athletic article today about the Jets and the ownership and the Suns and EA ratings and Jerry Judy. This became an immediate everybody texting everybody the same thing. It's on every NFL team's Reddit. It's it just became one of the stories of the year.

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A lot of anecdotal stuff that I think had been floating around, plus some new information. And guess what? The TLDR was like, hey, the Jets are super dysfunctional, which we knew already. But I think what I didn't realize was how kind of medley... Woody Johnson is. And people had always said when he was doing the ambassador thing, it was nice. Woody's out.

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But then when he came back, that's when it got a little crazy again. So in retrospect, both of us were bullish on the Jets. You were even more bullish than I was. But this team was so dysfunctional. It's not like we didn't know they were dysfunctional. So what made any of us think that this team was going to suddenly become functional? And is there any way out of this with this owner?

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The only real time where we had a marquee kind of thing was LeBron in Miami and Cleveland. And LeBron almost became like his own franchise to some degree because he became so big. But house.

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Just structurally, if we put this, if we put the semifinals in New York and either you had both games at MSG or you had one game at Barclays and the other game at MSG and it had to be, you could hustle back and forth and potentially get both. And then you had the finals two days later at MSG. And now we have celebrities. Now it's way easier for people to come in and out.

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And Wickersham and I talked about this last week because I genuinely think one of the reasons Belichick went to college was he was like, it's not the right franchise situation with the right kind of ownership. There's no meddling son of the owner, anybody kind of messing with me. I probably don't want to do it anyway, right? So after I put that pod up, some different people reached out to me.

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And a friend of mine was saying, you should do something on your pod about the difference between NBA owners and NFL owners. Okay.

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So that's the thing. He was saying like, what's different about NFL owners versus NBA owners? NFL owners, they own these big, giant, billion dollar companies. They're in a suite. They're detached from the fans. They get to do what they want. They'll put their son in charge here. They'll do whatever. But there's still a sense of detachment. Whereas NBA owners, they're in the crowd.

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They're with the game. They're kind of in the mix for... And the type of people that have been buying NBA teams aren't like these NFL, like just these super rich families passing down the team to different generations. The NBA, a lot of the owners they have are people that...

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either came up with the money themselves because they were rich or they thought outside the box or they were some family that bought in or there's somebody like that Matt Ishbia who's like the self-made guy who's like, I know how to do everything. And it's like all over the place.

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But the point is, there's so many of these jet situations in the NFL and I don't feel like there's the same in the NBA. There's different levels of owner incompetence in the NBA, but it's somehow... a different lane than NFL incompetence. The Jets have been like this for 15 years, right? Yeah.

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Now there's like vibe and energy and we're playing it in the most famous basketball arena we have. Isn't that just better?

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This was figured out in the NBA over the course of the last 20 years because these groups would buy franchises, but really like one guy was in charge and you would have these people putting in real money and they're like, fuck, I'm not in charge of anything.

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I think the newer owners that buy teams like that and have minority groups, they're strategically picked to bring one value thing to the whole equation that they kind of need, whoever it is, whether it's somebody who's forward-facing, somebody who's really smart, somebody who might know how to build a new arena. I think when I look at some of the NBA stuff,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The family that operates the most like an NFL team, like the dysfunctional generation-by-generation NFL team that just... is the Lakers.

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That's the team where the dad had the team really from the 70s on. He passed it down to his kids. They'll never get rid of it. They don't have the kind of crazy money to, you know, like basically their money comes through the team. That's it, from the Lakers. But there's like 10 NFL teams that operate like the Lakers do.

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I think the Giants are like that, even though I know people speak highly of the Maras. The Giants have been one of the most dysfunctional franchises for over a decade now, and they don't seem like they have a plan.

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It's a multi-billion dollar company, but then the other, some, some of the people that have come in the last decade, ShotKon, Tepper, Tepper, Haslam, Haslam, the, uh, and then the Washington, Josh Harris. Yeah. Yep. Um, which is like the new kind of modern owner where they're buying these franchises. But it's just part of a bigger portfolio for them, right? Totally.

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It's not like you're not living or dying with the success of the team. Who is the NFL owner that was like sitting on the bench like Cuban was with the Mavs forever, right? Arthur Blank. Arthur Blank was the guy, to be honest. One of the biggest companies in the world. And then he just shows up and he'll come down the sidelines. But...

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Uh, it's just, it's funny how the stakes somehow seem lower for the football owners because just owning a team in this league that is like one of the best businesses in the world.

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They're 100% not selling the team. Even Snyder, who they were, they're basically trying to set his franchise on fire and he wouldn't sell the team. What are some good examples of how it should work that aren't just like the Steelers passing a franchise down? Like to me, it seems like the Cronkies with the Rams just realizing like, hey, we have a good front office and a great coach.

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He's the positive upside of a legacy kid. I would say you'd point to him as like, that's a success story of a legacy kid.

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Yeah. Cause it seems like all of these guys have the son who, or in Jerry Jones's case, the daughter that everybody likes Charlotte, who everybody thinks is good, but everyone has the son for the most part. And then if you ask other people, um, I'm talking NBA, NFL, whatever. Like, so what's the sun like? And it could go one of three ways. They could be like, oh, he's good. He's really good.

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Like, it's almost like surprising. Or they'll be like, you know, he's pretty sharp, I guess.

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Well, then there's the third one where it's like, what's the sun like? And they go. You know. And then you're like, oh, it must be a disaster. Yeah. This guy must be the absolute fucking worst.

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Well, where it gets dangerous is like the Jaguars where Shad Khan, who owns a bunch of stuff and he's just got an incredible amount of money and they've spent money in the arena. Football team's a mess. The son's kind of running the team, but he's also running AW full-time. And a soccer team. And the soccer team.

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And if you're Belichick, and even if that was a job that was, you thought, oh, if I wait a month, maybe they'll just give me the car keys. It's like, what is that job? I have a weird ownership situation. I'm in Jacksonville, Florida, and I have no idea if my quarterback will ever be good. And those will be my mid-70s.

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The more I think about it, I actually really like that North Carolina job for him because college jobs these days... unless you're in a perfect NFL situation, like I think Carbot Chargers, that's like a perfect situation. Totally. Right. Or the Broncos.

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We need you, Sean Payton. Here are the car keys. And I just don't think that situation is there for anybody. Like if you're, if you're Vrabel now, and I think Vrabel is the best candidate of all these guys. If you're Vrabel, what's the situation where you're like, oh, oh, that's a no brainer. I got to do that. Is it even Cincinnati?

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You're basically waiting for the Pat's job. If you're waiting an extra year, you're like, this Pat's thing's going to go badly. I'm just going to wait until it falls apart.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that leads to the second part of the question is, is December the right time to have the NBA Cup?

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I don't think it was a slap in the face that they didn't give him a look. I think the Mayo thing had been done for a couple of years. So that was one of my questions for you, actually, to do a little coach watch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Watching the last three weeks of the season. Peterson, I'm guessing that's a wrap in Jacksonville, right? Yes, I would think. So there's four spots. Dayball seems like he's coming back. And my guess is they'll give him one more year and then they'll hire new people for the front office and that's how that plays out. But maybe they won't hang.

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That's a big talking point right now with the Pats fans. Because if you really are completely all out on Mayo... And I was 100% out. And then a couple of the players stuck up for him this week. So now I'm like, all right, I'll give it one more week. But Drake May stuck up for him. Dietrich West stuck up for him. But he's been just awful.

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I think he said four times this year in the preseason where he said something that everybody's like, wait, what just happened? And then the next day he had to clarify something I said yesterday. Yeah. And I don't know how many more of those he gets. The Arizona game was alarming, but they got Buffalo this week. They got Buffalo in the last week, which might actually mean something for Buffalo.

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So to me, Mayo's on the coach watch list, even though I don't think Kraft will fire him after a year.

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But the thing is, that's fine that they don't want to admit a mistake and maybe he deserves a second year. The difference is, Vrabel... I just think Vrabel is a great coach. If that's going to cost you Vrabel, you're in the same situation like the Jets were in where they could have had Vrabel a year ago probably and they brought back Salah when it clearly wasn't going to work. Pierce on Vegas?

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Interesting. I mean, look, I've been depending on how the next three games go.

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All right. Here are the three I got to get your take on. And I'm watching this for the next three weeks. There's always a surprise. I can't believe they let go of that guy coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Kyle Shanahan in San Francisco. Those would be my three. I'd be shocked if they, if they were let go one day after the season, but I also wouldn't be shocked. And then I guess maybe you could put Zach Taylor in there, but I actually think there's a chance the Bengals could make the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. When you decide to have a team of like half rookies and undrafted free agents, maybe you don't want to pay two coaches. So McDaniel, Steichen, Shanahan rank in order of what would surprise you the most.

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Yeah. And that goes back to what we were talking about earlier with these, these owners are just so different than the NBA owners. Steven Ross is like, ah, fuck. Yeah. How many, how many coaches in my path? Fuck it. I don't care. And just, what does he care? He's got a kajillion dollars. Some of these guys are old.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I mean, that's for the Pats fans who have been horrified by how sloppy the Pats have been and the terrible strategy and just how awful they look. The thing that a lot of us have focused on is that Kraft's just in his 80s. And you don't have a ton of these seasons left, right? And you can't be like, yeah, let's see one more year.

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They're in such a unique situation with Drake May, like on a rookie contract where it's like the single best asset you could have in sports. And they have a lot of work to do. And do you want to set that back a year? I don't know if you do.

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Like, and it has absolutely gone terrible. Off top of your head, how many teams have benched a quarterback this year? Benched or injury? Benched? Benched. Four. Ten. Okay. That's a lot. Cousins, Levis, Daniel Jones, Brissette, Fields, Jameis, Richardson, Flacco, back and forth, Bryce Young, Minshew, and I'm counting that Hainer guy. Tanner Rattler, somebody got benched in that. I don't know.

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There's benchings all over the place. That's one third of the league benched their quarterback this year. How are we getting worse?

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Am I crazy to think Zach Wilson should have gotten one more chance with somebody to at least start a game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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How is Wentz not quarterbacking a team either? That's another one. There's been a lot of dialogue with the Chiefs where they're like, Reed asking Mahomes, how is this guy a backup? He's so good. It's like, well, you got to look at that Indianapolis game. All right, next topic. The Calais Campbell release, we rarely see, so Miami is officially out of it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You rarely see, this happens in basketball right before the March 1st deadline. You rarely see a guy get released by a team who could actually hop onto a playoff team. and have a dramatic impact, but I feel like he could. He could.

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I'm just, I'm on pins and needles wondering where he goes. It's like the hardest asset to just stumble into in week 17 would be a guy in your defensive line that could push it.

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If he actually wants to win a ring, go to the Chiefs. Go to the Chiefs. Just go to the Chiefs. Just be next to Chris Jones. Just bang some bodies around. Okay. You watched Aaron Rodgers' entire Netflix doc?

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It has nothing to do with... I would actually watch it to spite Jimmy. He's my friend. No, I just don't want to spend... I don't want to spend, you know, valuable TV time with Rodgers.

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I'm sure it's well done. I just don't want to hang out with Rodgers for two hours.

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Well, so you're saying I should watch this over La Palma, the Norwegian disaster flick, where everything's dubbed, or series that's the number one TV series on Netflix right now? Is this the number one? I don't know. La Palma. I gotta see it. I like when you start watching those and then five minutes in, you realize their mouths aren't moving with the words. You're like, oh, now I get it.

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Ben and I were watching, we were both working at the kitchen table last night, watching Halloween 6 with Paul Rudd. Yeah, that's a classic movie.

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Just really, really, really into Michael Myers. It's just an incredible performance.

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All right, we have to go because my computer is about to run out of batteries. It was fun. Schrager, great to see you as always. You're the man, dude. Thanks. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Peter Schrager. Thanks to Joe Haas and Big Waz. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerruti for producing as always. I'm going to be back on Sunday live. with Cousin Sal.

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Yeah, Giannis had that clip from 2015 when the Bucks and the Bulls had that series and he got mad at Mike Dunleavy and he did the 50-foot charge and just knocked him into the first row. Giannis is not just a cuddly dude. That dude has an edge that they try to pretend he doesn't. I don't know why they would pretend he doesn't.

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You'll be able to watch it on YouTube as we're doing it. It'll be on Spotify video afterwards as well. Enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the greatest sports day in a while on Saturday too. It should be super fun. Can't wait to talk about it Sunday. Have a good weekend.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC. Subject to credit approval. Terms apply. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. It's The Gambler with me and Chris Ryan. It was a one for us. We had a great time. 10-minute serial conversation there.

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Let's go with Giannis. It just feels like there's two things that they did wise that I just, the more I look at it, I just don't like. One is they could use the Olympics and even like the Netflix starting five show, like just push new people, push, like put the fucking Wagner's on starting five. Let's let, let's hang out with those goofy Germans and see what their life is like.

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Like, let's try to develop new people. And then the Olympics, same thing. Should anyone over 30 even be on the Olympic team? Maybe we should have it should be all like, you know, younger players are in their prime players or guys trying to have a moment because we were in this situation in the beginning of the 2010s with Durant and Russ.

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And remember, it was the same conversations about, well, who wants to watch OKC? It's a whole bunch of young team. They should be putting LeBron on and Kobe and the Celtics and Carmelo. And meanwhile, all the real basketball people are like, I fucking love watching that OKC team. Right. And then it took a while. Took a while.

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Finally, 2014, when they played the Spurs, it felt like we had enough history with OKC and they became a thing. But I I don't know why they don't push the younger guys more, why they're so beholden to the guys who have already done it. And to me, it's just about ratings. But the ratings are going down. So it's not working.

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

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But there's a whole level of casual fans that I don't think have any idea about what's going on with him, how athletically, how different he is. There are some people that voted for him for defensive player of the year or have him in the top three. I had him second team all defense. It made me rethink, like, did I fuck that up? But in person, it's unbelievable.

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And what he did to Steph a week ago or a week and a half ago now, it was notable. All right, so we have that as the most unpredictable Ready for Anything series. The other one I'd put in that category, guys, is Pacers Bucks with Dane playing. This Pacers team that has looked awesome for the last three months, basically, right? If you look at the conference odds, they're 28-1 to win the East.

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And I think those odds are nuts. I think those odds should be way lower because they are going to play, if they beat Milwaukee, they're playing Cleveland in round two. And I think they could throw some haymakers at Cleveland. I just think 28-1, like if you consider, like if they beat Milwaukee and now you have to beat Cleveland, maybe something happens to Boston. Maybe there's an injury. Yeah.

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They're better than a 28-1 to win the East. Dane playing now, I think, is going to screw up the odds and make people think Milwaukee has a chance. Giannis is the best player in the series. CR, why don't people believe in the Pacers yet?

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But go check out Celtic City on Max. The first seven episodes are up. I was on Jimmy Kimmel Live last night promoting. It was great to go back. It's been 21 years since I worked. for that show, which is incredible. Right now, there's 21-year-old people probably insulting me and Jimmy on social media right now. That's how long it's been since I worked there, but it was awesome to go back.

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Yeah. I mean, the Dame element. That's your take. Giannis is the best guy in the series.

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It did make me a little nervous, though. Like, no, now he's fine.

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Thing went away. It was miraculous. But yeah, it's definitely a mark. Do you think Indiana's underrated or properly rated, Rob?

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My biggest issue with them is how stupid they are at the end of games sometimes.

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They're my number one draft pick for, I can't believe you guys just lost that game. They had to have been the number one team that you would say that about this year. And I was looking at some of the odds with them. Like to sweep the Bucs, it's plus 920. That's insane. They're not going to sweep the Bucs. They're better than the Bucs.

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They could just put four awesome games together and Giannis could have his 35 and 20 inning game and they could still beat them if they shot well. I think there's too much three-point variance with them. The Bucs are plus 490 to win in six and plus 540 to win in seven. And the scenario that would scare me if I was a Pacers fan is you lead the series and you're like...

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how the fuck did we lose that series? We were up nine in game one. We turned the ball over three times. All of a sudden the bucks are down two and Dame hits a three and we just blew the game. They do this shit over and over again. And, uh, This is one of those, I don't know if I'm even touching this series from a gambling standpoint. I don't know what to expect.

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I don't really want to bet against Giannis because Rob, he seems like he's been pushed to the edge. He's John Wick. My dog has died.

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I think that was a... Was that a Michael Mann movie in the 80s? To Live and Die in Kuzma?

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I am... I'm probably going to lean Pacers by the time it comes to gut check time for when to make a bet because two reasons. It's impossible to overstate how involved Kevin Porter is in the future of the Bucs right now. Jesus Christ. They were really, really relying on him. And I think they actually need him to be at Indiana. And that is such a wild card for so many different reasons.

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Coming up on this podcast, Rob Mahoney and Chris Ryan join me. We're going to preview our favorite round one playoff series. And then I'm going to do my NBA awards picks and bounce them off those guys once and for all. So that happened. And then a couple of days ago, Brian Windhorst came over to watch one of the playing games with me.

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And he also needs the ball to integrate Dame back into that. And there's Porter. That's one thing. The other thing is something you mentioned about Dame, Rob. The fact that he has played basketball in three weeks. This was always kind of a bad matchup for him because the Pacers love to pressure 94 feet. Yeah. And they love to just bug people and make them work to bring it up.

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And it's like, oh, you're going to have Giannis bring the bop or we're going to guard him almost the whole court. And I think they're going to try to put Miles on Dame. And I think you're asking a lot for him to just be like, hey, I know you haven't played in a month. I know you're on this blood thinner medication.

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Oh, by the way, we're going to be pressuring you this whole game and attacking you on defense. It's a lot. It would be heroic if they won the series because of him. The safe pick is Indy here, and that's why the line is what it is. Yes.

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Uh, narratives coming out of this one, CR. If Milwaukee loses, we're just on the clock now for Giannis trade stuff. That's it. Is that, maybe that should be another, uh, godaddy.com purchase for you.

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CR, don't step on my podcast in 15 days when I go through all the possible things, please. No, my money would be on Brooklyn or the Knicks because you talk about how hard it is to match the salaries. There's a Towns, Giannis, very easy flip you can do. Sadly, the Knicks have nothing else to throw in the trade, but he's probably going to pick the trade.

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But I would bet on Brooklyn if I had to because I think Brooklyn's sitting there with a lot of assets and some other moves, pieces they can put together. I just don't want to read another Kevin Durant. Well, I don't want to read another Kevin Durant.

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Let's just put him on the Timberwolves next year unless somebody can figure out the part where the Suns are going to be like, cool, sign and trade for Randall. Sign us up. Oh, and you have no picks? That sounds great too. So we'll just get Julius Randall and Rob Dillingham for KD? Great. Let's talk to my favorite series. Nuggets Clippers. A line that has moved dramatically.

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And we just went into my office and we taped an hour plus about just a whole bunch of evergreen basketball talk, which was really fun. It was great to see him. I've known him for a long time. So that is today's podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, recording this part of the podcast on late Thursday morning Pacific time. Rob Mahoney is here.

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The Clippers are now favored. Minus 118 favorites. Wow. Denver in five is plus 620. Clippers in five is plus 680. I think it's going longer than five. Denver is six plus 570. That would mean they won in LA. Clippers in six is plus 350. And then if you think it's going seven, which would be in Denver, plus 410 for Denver, plus 570 for LAC.

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And none of us are allowed to talk about the Kawhi's been hurt every year in the playoffs and you have to factor that in. We all know. Rob, feels like a long, awesome, incredible Spurs Clippers 2015-ish series to me. And as I've said a million times, I think the Clippers are the second best team in the West. I think they're a real threat.

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And I think if Jokic can beat them, this would be way up there with anything he's done basketball-wise.

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Well, it's going to be the top five guys on the Nuggets are going to have to play 38 to 41 minutes a game. Yeah. And I think Jokic is going to have to be in the low 40s for them to... Every second he's out of the game is going to be a disaster for them. What do you see narrative got, Chris Ryan?

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What prestige TV character does Adelman look like? To me, he looks like the embattled PR person in Succession who's getting screamed at by Kendall.

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Kendall, we got to tell them something. And he's just getting berated. If Kawhi is healthy, I just think the Clippers are winning this series as great as Jokic is. I think you can give him any stat line in this series, and I'm not sure it matters. They have so many people to throw at Murray. This is a nightmare series for Murray. Just let's start there.

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And we're going to see a lot of Chris Dunn and we're going to see a lot of Nuggets welcoming Chris Dunn to shoot from wherever he wants. Sure. Go ahead. You can have that. But then he comes out. Let's go. Hey, have you met Derrick Jones Jr. yet? And I assume Batum's playing. Hey, have you met Nick Batum? Because now you're going to have him for four minutes.

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And I just think it's going to be really hard for them to get on track. They're going to use all the Westbrook minutes against them.

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I forgot about that. And then Zubat's like, here's the other thing. Jokic doesn't want to get in foul trouble in these games. And if he's going to guard Zubat, the Clippers are really good when they throw it to him. Teams always overreact. They always send a second guy. And if they try to guard him straight up with Joker, he's going to... He's going to try to put some heat on them.

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They're also a really good offensive rebounding team. Jokic is the only guy who rebounds on this team. Nobody else gets a rebound. It's basically just him.

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I'm just saying, if they need a big rebound, he's usually the one getting it. So now he's got to keep up. And then there's this separate Kawhi piece.

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Under the hot lights? And this is, now you're going case for Denver. Best player in the series. We've seen this James Harden play before.

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And Kawhi Leonard, just when you think it's going great, it's like the dun-dun. It's like in Presumed Innocent. What was that dumb episode, Rob, when the guy had the fake heart attack? Next week, is he going to wake up? Oh, he's fine. It was just a dream. Yeah, he's okay. But Kawhi is the dun-dun cliffhanger. Yeah. Just waiting to happen.

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Well, and Kendall Roy's PR guy, who I think seemed like he did a decent job in those last couple games. But he's going against, I think, one of the best four or five coaching staffs in the league. And a staff that is really committed to defense and disciplined on what they want to do and is just really smart. Everyone's on the same page. They'll bench dudes that don't look great.

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They'll take them out. We didn't mention the Ben Simmons piece of this, Chris. Yeah.

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I don't know what your relationship is with the other BS at this point, but I'm going to get estranged. Estranged might be the answer.

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My guess would be he gets phased out of this series as it goes along because I think there's too many unplayable things about him. The other thing with all the rest, Zubat always plays big minutes anyway. And it's gotten to the point with him where if he's out of the lineup, you really feel it.

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, an NBA playoff mega preview. Plus I'm going to do my NBA awards picks and a whole lot more. It's all next.

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Chris Ryan, the NBA culture ombudsman of the ringer is here. That's a great new title. Big picture czar of the ringer. You just kind of float in with takes. We're going to try on some Thursday nights at least to have the three of us reacting off of some of these games. But I wanted to go through my NBA award stuff with you later.

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One other thing, guys. I got to mention this. They really have a home court advantage now, the Clippers. There's real energy in that arena. Denver's not going to have a lot of fans there, but it's... It's not swinging games. It's never going to be the 80s again where you could just put five loud people behind the bench and just have them berate people.

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Right. Now it's, you know, there's just a nice energy to it. So we're talking narratives. Oh, go.

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I think you're looking at Porter in that case. Right, Rob? I think that would be the first piece.

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Well, if you can't get through this series, that should tell you you gotta do something here.

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I think this was bad for a while. And I think they wanted to do it a couple of different times and just, they would just win a game right when they were about to do it. And, and I just think they stared at it and stared at it. And at some point we're like, this is actually going to sink our season if we don't do something.

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So for narratives, for the Denver side, it'll be like, well, Jokic, I thought you'd think he's the MVP and he couldn't even get out of round one. Like, I promise you, if they lose to the Clippers, Jokic will not, there will be no shit on his feet. It will not be him. The Clippers will win despite Jokic.

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And he also just had one of the best offensive seasons in the history of the league. Yep. I think there's the Murray Porter question from the Nuggets side, then who's going to come in, all that stuff. On the Clippers side, if they don't win, then it's a James Harden, he fooled us again. If Kawhi can't play seven games in a row or six games in a row, he fooled us again.

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I'm going to talk about the series first because we just got news that Dame Lillard is playing in this Bucs series. And the Bucs Pacers series now is... Is a stealth most fun possibility for round one? Mahoney, series you're most looking forward to out of the eight? Now, we don't know the two play-in matchups yet, but we assume those are going to be blowouts.

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I think those would be the two things that came out of it. Let's take a break. Wanted to mention one other series to you, and then I'll do my NBA awards for you guys. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. We're in the playoffs, baby. From three-pointers to steals to assists, FanDuel has so many ways to bet your favorite player props. You can bet series prices. You can live bet.

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Fandle.com slash BS for your shot at $250 in bonus bets. Make every moment more with Fandle, an official sports betting partner of the NBA. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is almost here and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats. What do we mean by almost? Well,

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You can't get a well-groomed lawn delivered, but you can get chicken Parmesan delivered. I love chicken Parmesan. A cabana, that's a no. But a banana, that's a yes. A nice tan, sorry, nope. But a box fan, happily, yes. A day of sunshine, no. A box of fine wines, yes. Uber Eats can definitely get you that. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets.

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We didn't talk Lakers, T-Wolves. I'm really proud of us. On ESPN, they would have just led with that. We could have done a GOAT conversation about LeBron and then done that whole thing. We don't have to do that here.

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We're much nobler. We did the independent spirits award version of the same segment.

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2354.2

Adam Scott came in. Do you give the T-Wolves a chance in this series, Rob?

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2512.725

I had a Minnesota fan try to zag with Gobert. And I appreciate it. I won't name who it was. But they were like, you know, everybody's talking about playing Gobert off the court. What about Gobert's high lobs? Who's contesting those in the Lakers?

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2531.415

Who are the rim protectors on the Lakers? I was like, well, they don't really have some. And then... But the other point was that you can actually hide Gobert in this series a little bit more than people realize. Like if Jackson Hayes is out there, he just stays with him. And if they're going to set picks where Jackson Hayes is the one setting the pick, good luck to you.

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2549.934

And then when Rui's out there, he probably shades closer to Rui or Finney Smith. And does the thing that the Celtics do with Porzingis where he's near the corner, but he can jump back in.

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2561.426

And I don't know. They were just a little more bullish on it than I thought. There's a best player in the series question with this series that's really fun. Where you're like, well, obviously, Luka or LeBron. It's like, I don't know how obvious it is. Like, what if Edwards is just incredible? Edwards certainly thinks he's the best player in the series. There's some...

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2581.732

You know, LeBron's 40 years old. I feel like if you're going to always talk about, well, what if Kawhi gets hurt? I still think we have to at least mention, well, what if a 40-year-old guy playing really physical, awesome playoff games every two, three days? Like, are we counting on that for three rounds? I think that has to be mentioned. And then the targeting Reeves on defense, I think.

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The smarter teams have done it. The Lakers know it's coming. How much of that are they going to do it? I think it's an awesome series. If you had to pick, who are you picking, Rob?

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2638.399

It's an awesome series. I'll tell you this, the FanDuel line of Minnesota being a plus 156 underdog and the Lakers being almost two to one seems off to me because Minnesota has enough talent to hang with this. To me, this feels like a Lakers in seventh.

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2661.377

I liked what I saw from him last week, but I absolutely think one of Minnesota's game plans is going to be to try to agitate him and annoy her and hope that he gets mad, hope that he gets technicals, hope that he gets into mano-a-mano stuff. I just think he's shown some real immaturity on the court. All the same stuff he's been doing the first seven years of his career, he still does.

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2684.931

He still talks to people in the front row, all that shit. And I think Minnesota has a bunch of guys who love that. And the other thing with Minnesota is it's definitely an irrational confidence team. right? They're not going to be, nobody's going to be scared. They're not going to be, Oh my God, we're playing in LA. Like they're, they don't give a shit.

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2701.908

They're not going to care that celebrities are around the, uh, around the front. Um, yeah, this will be a good one. I forgot to mention with the rocket series, uh, And maybe with the Pistons-Knicks, which is the last one I want to talk about quickly. I don't think kids should be allowed in the front row for either of those series.

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2719.79

I think it has to be 12 and up. You must be this tall. It's like a Disneyland ride. Yeah, if you're 9 and under, you don't get to sit. Knicks-Pistons... I almost think that's like an NC-17 movie. You have to be 18 and older to sit in the front row.

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2736.666

If you bring your six-year-old kid to Nick's Pistons and that kid gets trampled by Ron Holland during like a massive brawl, I don't feel sorry for you. I don't feel sorry that your kid broke his wrist when he's six years old.

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2766.307

If you're over 70 years old, stay out of the first round. I'm just warning you now.

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2782.421

Yeah, because I don't think you can rule out Lakers-Wolves either for some sort of feistiness. But Rockets-Warriors, clearly shit's going down in that series. And the Rockets are going to hit Curry. They're going to hold him 50 feet from the basket on every screen. They're going to knock him down when he goes to the hoop. It's just going to be on.

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2869.636

Great regular season story, CR. Yeah. I think this is probably where the train gets off and maybe they win one. I think Knicks in four at plus 520 or Knicks in five at plus 270. Those are probably two of my favorite bets. The one question I have with the Knicks, can Tibbs figure out a way to, like could Brunson end up with a minutes per game in this series of like 48.2?

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2895.433

Are all five guys going to be in the 40s every game? Because there's like two days off between games.

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2942.617

Rob, are you watching institutional malaise on Paramount? No.

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2950.389

I thought it was good to see Carla Gugino like trying again with one of the Wilson brothers.

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2961.651

We should create a video show for the Ringer-TV YouTube thing where we just list four shows and three of them are real and one is made up and then the viewers have to guess which one we made up. Because I think it would be near impossible at this point. And Apple will have some shows where I'm just like, wow. Yeah. What is that? That was greenlit?

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2999.851

Yes. Right. The studio has almost, yeah, it's almost like made it even more noticeable. Yeah. Yeah. Rob, are you a 1923 guy? I'm not. Should I be? Oh, wow. Am I missing out?

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3030.487

I have season tickets now for Sheridan. That's where I've landed. Sure. I really like 1923, but it's one of the all-time couple shows for my wife and I. My wife loves it. I have no idea why. And she loves shows set in the 1800s and 1900s because she feels like she really would have been an impactful person back then.

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3052.804

She would have absolutely been able to defend the ranch with guns and would have been able to survive in the cold. She would have hit that train. The lady waiting for the train who was freezing to death. She's like, I would have made it. I would have been able to make it until the train showed up. Yeah. I would have died in the first episode.

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3075.88

Oh, I think Presumed Innocent is a 10 out of 10 on that scale.

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3083.788

Just ham, hamming it up. Yeah. He's having a ham old time. Okay. Playing games really quick. I picked Miami against Chicago, and I think they're also going to beat Atlanta, and that line is only minus one. There's no case for the Hawks. Is there, Rob?

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3116.121

Who do you think Cleveland would rather play? Probably Atlanta, right?

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3127.227

You guys enjoying the play-in experience? I think they could dump the 9-10 pretty easily and we'd be good. I think we could go 7-8 and then loser plays 8-9 or we go 8-9 first.

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3141.679

They play the 7, some version of that. I just, although I guess Sacramento's still in. But it's almost like they need the college football committee from the mid-80s to kind of step in and just be like... Wait, Sacramento's still in, but they fired... Sacramento's not a 9-10 team.

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315.779

Well, Steven Adams has already reminded everyone that Draymond has kicked him in the balls two different times over the course of his career. That's not even a top three feud in this series.

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3165.01

No, it's just... You know, you see those games. There was one good game out of four. I think they're probably hoping there's two good games out of four. So yeah, it's pretty tough.

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3184.052

Yeah. CR, I know about three weeks ago, I heard through the grapevine you and your financial team bought some Nico Harrison stock at the lowest possible level. You were like, I want to bet on this guy. A lot of connections. Did some great stuff in the shoe industry. Made some good trades. Pulled the Mavs to the finals last year. The stock's never been lower. I'm going to invest.

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And then Dallas looks awesome last night in the playing game. How are you feeling about your holdings?

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3249.487

Well, I, my question is if they did, if they do, there's six and a half point underdogs in Memphis. And I, to me, that game's a toss up. Cause I could just see Davis going nuts in that game. Um, if they did get in the OKC thing, um,

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3263.565

1-8 and then Davis goes nuts in the first game and it just it's the most fun random scenario none of us would have expected like oh my god Dallas is up 2-1 and Nico's like fuck all of you guys I told you if we had Kyrie we'd be winning this thing all the Mavs fans are wearing Joker masks and kind of like oh my god how am I supposed to feel Rob who do you think OKC I know they don't care either but who would they rather play

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3321.67

Lou Dort's going to be like, I don't know who to guard. Who do you want me to shut down? Oh, these guys are mediocre. I want Dallas to keep winning because I think it would be hilarious. But yeah, this worked out unbelievably well for OKC. And this is why you get the one seed. And this is what I did. All right, before we go, I wanted to do my awards that I handed in on Tuesday. Not expecting.

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3347.069

I thought I had a little more time. I thought so too. But they asked for it on Tuesday. I think they didn't want the play-in game. So I'm just going to tell you what I did. And you guys, I don't think, neither of you guys know anything I did, right?

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336.205

I had a couple of Warriors fans in my life who were very upset at me. Because Mahoney and I did a podcast after the Lakers-Warriors game, and both of us were like, that was really interesting. The Warriors really seemed like they have a handle on a Lakers matchup. We liked what we saw. That team makes sense to us as a win multiple rounds. And then after that Clippers game...

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3367.937

Coach of the Year. Bickerstaff 3. Kenny Atkinson 2. Mark Dagnall, number one. Okay.

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3405.942

I was always impressed watching them, how well prepared they were, how hard they played, and how they could basically sustain any injury, and it was somehow okay. But the way the young players have grown on that team, and it's got to the point where the trade deadline, it's like, I don't know, Aaron Wiggins is good. Why do they need a swing man? Why do they need DeAndre Hunter?

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3427.828

They have Aaron Wiggins. I just thought he did a great job, and I think sometimes we default toward It's got to be this, you know, like a Bickerstaff or like a JJ the Lakers only improved by three wins.

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And I always felt like that was stupid. So anyway, I have that. Clutch player of the year. Jason Tatum, number three. Look up the stats.

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3452.397

No. No. Jalen Brunson. He's still only 19 years old, Chris. Jalen Brunson, too. I couldn't believe how easy this was for me because I actually watch basketball. Jokic is the number one clutch player of the year. Does anyone fucking watch the Nuggets? He does everything at the end of games for them. Everything possible. How is he not clutch player of the year? Because this award is kind of bogus.

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3477.55

That's a ridiculous award. They should get rid of it.

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3485.509

We talked about other possible things that could go in for this award because I hate the Kia Clutch Player of the Year and I think it's stupid. But it could be an award like the Kia... I'd really given up on you, but you kind of won me back over Player of the Year. I really think they should have something like that. Or I really thought you sucked and it turns out you don't.

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How do you think Kia would feel about that? Well, yeah. Does that fit on a poster for them?

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3514.418

Sixth man of the year, Ty Jerome third, Peyton Pritchard second, and Malik Beasley first. And I can't believe Pritchard was favored for this award all year. I just, what Beasley did all year, clearly the sixth man to me. He didn't start really ever. He scored 16 a game. Kurt Goldsberry did a thing on my pod about how he's basically Clay Thompson for them this year. It's been really good.

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And I just thought it was a no-brainer. Who'd you have for that, Rob?

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CR, my thinking was if Pritchard disappeared for 25 games, it would suck, but the Celtics would have been fine. If Beasley disappeared, I think the Pistons would have been in major, major, major trouble because they actually ran real offense for him throughout the game.

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358.263

I expressed real concern that they didn't totally look like they knew who they were again. And Zach and I talked about that on his pod on Monday. I didn't even know about the Kaminga benching until the next day. I thought he was hurt. And it just seems like they punted on Kaminga. And this is, Rob, a different team than they were when we did that Lakers-Warriors pod where...

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3581.127

I really care about these awards. I try to do the right thing, even if it's at the expense of Pritch, please.

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3590.502

That's T-shirt in Boston. Yeah. You can look for it. Tastefully done, I'm sure. I didn't see that over there. Pritch Please is the hottest selling T-shirt in Boston.

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3602.852

Rookie of the year. I went Castle one, Reese's Shade two, ED three. I don't. Castle did enough, I feel like. Yeah, he was out there. Any arguments, C.R. ?

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3629.677

I'll skip the rookie first, second team. Most improved. I did Kamara on Portland, number three. Really? Yeah. I thought he was stunning.

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3644.366

Yeah, I really took this one seriously and looked at everybody's. Because I wanted to do Reeves, and I looked at last year's Reeves versus this year. And it's like, was he really improved? He was good last year. Same thing for Cade. Kamara became, I think, a guy that the other team was like, fuck.

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3660.45

They have this guy. Oh man, this is going to be a hard night for me. So I had him three. I had Christian Brown too, just getting thrown in the KCP thing. And then I thought Daniels was the clear number one. Who'd you have number one, Rob?

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Oh, I looked at him. I just felt like he was good last year and then went up a level, but he's coming up later.

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3696.22

I wanted to put Quinton Grimes number one for CR because he almost ruined CR's draft pick. Oh my God, dude.

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Defensive player of the year. Number three, Draymond Green.

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3729.932

Number two, Evan Mobley. Oh, fuck. We couldn't get Evan Mobley number one? Number one, Lou Dort.

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3739.578

Lou Dort's great. I looked at it every which way and I thought I was going, I thought it was really hard. And by the way, there's no Wemby this year. So this was like an Oscars year where you just take out Titanic out of 1997 and then try to figure out what best picture is.

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3754.407

um i just thought dort was the best guy i saw in person this year and i think he wrecked the most games that i saw as good as mobile as mobile like very looked like facsimile kg a lot of the times and can guard all these different things i thought what dort did to some of the best players in the league was unbelievable and i saw it in person a couple times harden wanted no part of him

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3778.462

No one does. No, it's just like he's just like this. He's like Revis on the Jets. Just like, all right, I'm going to take that guy. You guys worry about what you're going to do. This guy's not doing anything today. And I just thought he was awesome. I voted for Smart a couple years ago, which became a controversial pick after the pandemic. It's a lot of the same stuff. Like,

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378.846

I thought Kaminga, I think he brings them something extra athletically, physically, just as a bigger body. They're playing Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James against Houston. who has a bunch of physical wings. It just seemed, and they're going to play a big lineup. It just seems like you need them, but the words are done with them. And now I feel like they seem really small in this series.

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3797.904

I just think perimeter guys who can make sure the other best guy in the team doesn't hit 30 in the game, which he had a two-and-a-half-month stretch where nobody scored 30 on him. So I had him. So, Rob, you had Mobley?

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3818.547

Yeah, I had him second team and I'm already regretting it, but I'll tell you what I did for the... So I had first team all defense. I had Mobley, Green, Dort, Dyson Daniels. I felt like had to be... The poke check shit he was doing. Nobody's done that in 40 years. I've never... And the one thing I didn't love about him was the big physical guys.

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3837.914

I felt I could overpower him a little bit, but everything else was there. And then I put Zubat's first team.

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I thought their whole defense is anchored toward funneling people to him. The rebounding, which I think should matter at least a little bit in all defense, protecting the boards. And I like to have my teams look like a semblance of a team. I know these are all fake teams.

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3862.915

They're extremely stupid and fake, but I like that. I want them to look like a team. So then second team, Kamara, Ananobi, Ahmed Thompson, Jalen Williams, and I had Giannis over Gobert. I just felt like we skip over Giannis every year with all defense for some reason. Then you watch these games and he's all over the place covering everybody.

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3903.021

Stay on the fucking court. I've watched too many games where he does the dumbest foul. He did it in the playing game. He does dumbest fouls at the worst time, and I think that's a huge part of this. Zubat stays on the court. That is true. Zubat does like 2.1 fouls a game, and Jackson will be... Any big game, and watching the playing game, I'm sure it'll be the same thing.

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3920.865

He's always lingering around foul trouble, fouling dudes 20 feet from the basket. What do you have, C.R. ?

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3950.748

Yeah, I mean, it would be a weird word to have athlete of the year in the NBA, but for me, he's athlete of the year. That's the over and over again when people see Houston in person, they're like, Jesus.

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3963.536

What happened to this guy? Okay. All-NBA first team, Shea, Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, Mitchell. You knew those were the five. Second team, Edwards, Curry, Mobley, Towns, LeBron James. There's some cases against LeBron because of the net rating, Rob. He had a minus 1.3 net rating on a team that won 50 games. Do you care about that stuff when you look at votes?

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401.454

This is a classic small ball, big ball kind of matchup. I'm way more worried about them than I was two weeks ago. Is that recency bias or what do you think it is?

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4014.195

Yeah, and CR, it was just a goofy season. Davis gets hurt. They make a trade midseason, and he was the only constant. So you're good with LeBron's second team?

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4043.86

Every time I want to heap praise on him, he does stuff like saying how he was in the bottom half of the league with free throws over the last, whatever that thing he said on McAfee was, easily debunked. Or then Rich Paul goes in and talks about how the three guys in Miami weren't actually a big three. If you look at it, it's like, yeah, they were. Bosh was like a 24 and 10 guy in his own team.

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4063.169

It was a big three, dude. The constant trying to push this GOAT agenda with LeBron, they're making it worse, not better. I'll just say that. Okay. NBA 13. Cade Cunningham and Brunson, no surprise. The last three spots were pretty divisive all over the place. And a lot of people had Hal Burton and Jaron Jackson here. Neither of them made my list. Come on. Why? Jalen Williams, OKC. Sure. Yeah.

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4096.067

zoo bots. Okay. Put them on. I like that because I, I just look, the NBA does this thing where they're, they've just like, there's too much controversy with these, with the NBA teams, just pick 15 best players. And it's like, I don't want to do that. You're throwing away 80 years of history by doing that. I still think I have to have a big man on every team.

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And if, if there's no big man, then sure, I'll have four guards. But if there's somebody who deserves to be on it, I'm just picking them over having four guards. I thought Zubats, I made the case for him Sunday. I thought he was amazing and incredibly important. And it was a good litmus test of are you watching basketball or not this season?

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So that last spot came down to James Harden or Tyrese Halliburton for me. And I can't believe it. I took James Harden.

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Can I ask you a question? I have two Clippers on my third team.

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Do they have like bonuses? I didn't even, I didn't know about that. I just thought Harden, I watched, I really liked the Pacers, but there are some Pacers games where he just wasn't, didn't have to be that important. First couple months of the season wasn't great. Last three, four months, he was way, way better. Really good.

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Harden does everything for the Clippers. Even when Kawhi's out there, everything's still running through him. And he was really durable. He played, I think like 78, 79 games. And I just thought he was really, really good. I had a lot of, I couldn't leave him off. So Rob, what are your take? Two Clippers.

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Yeah, and if it was going to go, you know, hey, do whatever, then I probably would have done Halliburton and Harden. But I genuinely think Zubats deserves it.

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A man's got to have a code. Those weren't the rules in 1973. Yeah. Those weren't the rules in 1997. I'm trying to move America forward.

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Then we'll start messing around with the Constitution. All of a sudden, Trump's in there for multiple terms.

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I felt really bad about Halliburton. I had basically 16 guys for 15 spots. Jackson wasn't going to make it for me, but Halliburton. So that's it. I'll probably maybe regret it. All right, MVP, last one. I put Mitchell five. I test drove the Edwards case and I test drove the Curry case. Did you do similar test drives, Rob?

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Tatum four. He was three for me most of the year, but I thought Giannis, whatever happened to him the last month was just out of control and he just had to be three, especially when Dame goes out and it just didn't matter for them. So Mitchell, Tatum, Giannis, and then I battled back and forth between Jokic and Shea and I changed my mind a hundred times.

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And I really don't think there's a wrong answer because Shea had one of the best seasons by a guard probably in the last 40 years when you're talking about his offensive production, the consistency, how he did against teams head-to-head, what he meant to a pretty young but incredibly deep OKC team, and the fact that they won 68 games.

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I just thought he was an incredible candidate and probably would have... taken easily 80% of the seasons, and I think he's going to win this year anyway. I voted for Jokic. I thought it was the best offensive season I've seen since Jordan.

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Like, for what somebody did game after game, quarter after quarter, all the shit that he did for that team, not only was he... First of all, to be top three in points, rebounds, and assists is... it's bonkers. I just can't believe, but not trying to pad stats, not doing the shit Westbrook did in 2017, where can you box out so I can get this foul shot, rebound, all that stuff.

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His usage rates, not that high. So if you're going to compare it to Luca last year, like Luca had the ball all the time last year, Jokic kind of has the ball to necessity, but he wants the ball to keep moving almost like a hockey player. Um, I thought the stuff he did day to day, week to week, um, I've never seen anything like it. And I was leaning there, leaning there.

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And then that 60-10-10 game, I was like, we may never see anything like this again. And I just had to pick them. So that's where I landed. I felt like just the fact that he'd won before would be the only reason. I get it. Shea with the wins. I mean, there's great cases for Shea.

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I didn't like making the pick and I'll probably regret it a week from now, but I just feel like I'm never going to see a season like that again. He got 50 games. They were in a three-way tie for the third spot in the West, which was really competitive. The coach-GM situation was a catastrophe. Murray didn't show up for the first two months of the season. They had no bench.

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The advanced metrics for when he was on the court, when he was off the court, was the biggest disparity in the history of the league. And it's just like, at some point, what are we doing? So I took him. What's your take, C.R.?

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And I feel stupid. But I get it. It's a regular season award. That's the thing. And the thing is, Shea was incredible. I almost feel like it's not even like a slap on him. He had like a better season than any Kobe Bryant season. He had as good of a season as any season Jordan ever had statistically when you look at the wins and all the other stuff.

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But I just, the Jokic thing I thought was like a fucking unicorn season. Rob, what's your take?

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Well, LeBron was in the zone from 09 to 13. He won four or five. And then that Miami season, the first one was the one he didn't win. But it was just like when he was on that level that he was at, Nobody was taking the MVP from him as long as his team was winning enough games. And then he went to Cleveland.

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I think the one LeBron season you could probably make the case after 13 was that last Cleveland season when he played 82. His stats really good. But if you go back and look like Harden, Harden's team won 65 games and his stats were basically dead even with LeBron. He was a better pick.

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Or was he the best possible solution out of all the other available options they had? But they, you know, CR, you mentioned the Curry injury possibility. Yeah. Butler, just the fact that it's an older team and you have this young, hungry team of pit bulls going against them that also has home court advantage. I can't figure this series out. What are you looking at?

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Especially going head-to-head against other good teams. He did it. He was incredible. But I kept coming back. You did the Ringer 100, right? Yeah. So I had OKC. I had them. I had Shea 2, 17, 18, 62, 65, 79, and 96. I had them with seven of the best 96 guys. In Denver, I had one, 41, 60, and 78. And I'm not even sure how good I feel about the 78, which is quarter. That might have been...

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even a little bit too high. And then you think like, no, I'm just like, I don't, I don't know. I don't know how much I like Porter. Um, and then you throw in the bench, which is like every 30 seconds he wasn't in the game. You felt like Denver was going to fall apart. I, I thought it was a historic season.

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I feel terrible that I didn't vote for Shea because Shea did every single thing you ever could have asked. I just think Jokic's position is more important if you're going to look at it. To be like a point center that is also the best rebounder He did everything, but he not only made the meals for his team, but he fucking spoon-fed them teammate by teammate.

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They moved to prison food. So we'll see. Jokic could lose in five games in round one, and it could be a 2007 Dirk situation.

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Yeah, because I just feel like if Kaysom Wallace was on another team, that's a 35-minute-a-game guy for 25 other teams in the league. Straight up one of the best ISO defenders in the league.

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So if you're going to ding Shea for anything, I don't even know if it's a ding. That team is so... And they were missing, like, Hartenstein was out for a while. Chet missed two-thirds of the season. Like, I get it. But when you just think like fundamentally, that team is built so perfectly for them where they can lose any two guys for a game and it's still okay.

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They can guard everybody in every conceivable way. And Shea just really has to worry about, I just got a score for us in crunch time. This is my job. And he was awesome at it. Yep. But man, that Jokic season.

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Never. I mean, you want to be in the top four seeds. I think if Denver had fallen to a seventh seed, I think it gets a little dicer. I know everybody was split by a game, but still. The West had, what, eight? Eight of the best 11 teams in the league, basically. Mishkana, Indiana. And most of the good players in the league. So, all right, CR. I thought CR would be more upset. CR, who'd you have?

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I think OKC gets to the finals unless I think the Clippers are the only team that has a chance against them. I think they beat everybody else.

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It certainly feels like it, especially if Jalen Brown isn't 100% Jalen Brown and they play Boston in a finals where they have home court and it's an 80% Jalen Brown. And them versus Cleveland, I would just take them 10 out of 10 times. Anyway, Mahoney, CR, I kept you way longer than I promised, but I had a good time. Thanks for popping on.

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I have some good news. On FanDuel, the Ringers player performance doubles profit boost token is moving to Sundays for the playoffs when we know we're going to have awesome games. That's right. Every Sunday during the playoffs, customers can claim a 30% boost. on one of my favorite betting markets. And if you don't know about them, check it out. It's easy.

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4926.26

It's basically like, I think Boston's going to win. I think Tatum's going to score 25 points. You mix them together. If you win it, you get 30% boost. Sunday, we got Golden State Houston. Do you think Curry's going to kick butt in that game? You do? You think he's going to score 30 points and have four threes and Golden State's going to win? Put them all together.

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4946.906

player performance, just do the points and the warriors. And if you win, you get a 30% profit boost. This Sunday, be sure to claim your profit boost on FanDuel Sportsbook. Before you watch the action. Brian Windhorst is here. And we're taping this on a Tuesday because you came over to watch the first playing game with me. We're running out of Thursday.

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So we're going to try to go as evergreen as humanly possible.

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4974.88

Tonight was the greatest day of basketball I've ever had.

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Ja retired the Grenade Celebration and had a 70-point game.

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So I want to dive into your life, which I'm fascinated by. You're in LA. Yeah. But you're doing Get Up.

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What's your normal time zone? Which one are you on? Central time zone. Okay. So you're two hours, but three hours behind E.T. ?

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So you, you wake up, Quick shower just to wake up? Are you getting coffee? What's your mood?

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I remember my friend Rob Stone, who does a bunch of stuff for Fox, who I've known forever. ESPN let us do a college basketball game once at Pepperdine.

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And it was like in the mid-2000s. And we get there and we're about to go on and he pulls out this thing and he's doing this. And I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm powdering up. Do you want some? I'm like, no. And he's like, well, you're going to regret it. And then he was right.

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And you put your little thing, your little head. Yeah. And can you, are you on the delay? Cause that's always one of the hard things in this.

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Well, and then you attempt the craziest thing, which I have never done and will never do, is doing actual content on the court after games when people can interrupt you. Zach told me, you could tell the story, though. Somebody interrupted you and came in and had some amazing story and then it wasn't recording and you lost it. So what was that story?

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It's been really fun for me to watch your, I don't know, I don't want to say rise, but like whatever the journey has been.

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Watching the rise. We talked about, or the journey. We talked, you came on after the Utah thing.

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The finger point, which is still going. Get Up is still milking that.

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But then last year you did the Luca thing during the finals, which I immediately took seriously because I've known you for a long time and I don't think you do stuff like that lightly.

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And it felt like there was real thought put into it for a bunch of different reasons. And you were just like, fuck it. I'm doing this right now. I have... All this different intel I'm getting. I was at the same game you were. And I thought Luca really screwed the game up and just was acting like a brat that game. I'm pro Luca, by the way. But he was bratty and he really hurt them that game.

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Yeah. There's, there's some NBA historical stuff with this series that makes me nervous for the Warriors. One of the things that makes me nervous is Tuesday night. They got 75 points from Steph and Butler, right? That's about as good as those guys are going to play in a big game. And they barely beat a Memphis team that doesn't play defense, right?

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I was going to say, yeah, because I don't remember if I saw you after that, but we were there for...

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You're down 3-1 in the series. He proved nothing.

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Well, especially at the finals, you're going to run into them the next day. So there's a heightened level of something.

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They're not really in the... Well, I said on one of the pods I did this week about Minnesota Lakers. I can't remember because I did my pod, then I went on Zach's. Um, I really feel like Minnesota has a game plan in that series should be to mess with Luca and try to get him. I've watched him. I've watched it happen multiple times already in this Lakers season.

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He, for some reason, and I kind of, I gotta be honest, I kind of like it because it's almost like he almost seems Italian to me, even though he's Slovenian, but he just takes everything personally. If somebody talks shit to him, He can't believe it. And he'll just keep it going for five minutes. He'll talk to people in the first two rows.

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He'll get mad at a ref and keep going with the ref for 10 minutes. And then the thing that really bugs him, which is so funny, I think he's the only guy in the league that does this. If there's a foul on him, like somebody fouls him, And the guy who fouled him is then turned into the ref and complaining about the thing. And Luca thinks it was a foul. He actually gets offended.

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So you look at that and you're like, all right, that's your best case scenario. If you're not playing Kaminga, you have no other wild cards for points. Kind of need those guys. Maybe you'll have some variance with some threes. For the most part, you need Butler and Curry to be between 60 and 65 points realistically.

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And he'll get involved in the argument and he'll just go back and forth. But he plays with such a chip on his shoulder. I feel like you could use it against him. You look at Minnesota, they have Edwards, they have McDaniels, they have Alexander Walker, Randall. They have some guys who can, I think, mess with them.

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Well, and they just get so fed up with him after a while.

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The refs, they are so tired of hearing it that they... There's one other guy that's, if you're doing the first team all-NBA for this, the sneaky guy in this team is Tatum. This is a running thing with him all year. He just, and, you know, obviously I'm a Celtics fan, so I see his side on it because I do feel like he gets, doesn't get the benefit of the calls all the time.

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But now, so that he does this wave thing, refs, Certain things trigger refs and one of them is the dismissive wave. They just fucking hate it. They really don't like it. He gets whistled on that over and over again or they hold it against him. And it's weird because I think he's probably the quietest, most unassuming superstar we have.

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Yeah, and this is like his one thing. He just gets really pissed about it.

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I honestly can't even remember what happened. But I don't remember anything. I don't remember 2020, 2021.

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Well, it felt like Tatum was going to have this arc where he was going to be one of the best American, because he was just such a perfect Olympic guy.

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593.68

And Butler's not, you know, in the playoffs, he's been a little different as we've written about. But, you know, it's a lot of points. It's a lot of points to make up. So unless it's a rock fight from Houston's side, I really worry about the upside of Houston if I'm a Golden State fan. Oh, sure. That there's... Is there another level this team can go to? What is Amon Thompson going to be like...

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Well, I mean, he's the number one guy they need just because of what he does specifically.

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No, this was their sports movie and this was the ending of the sports movie.

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That's when all the coaches really fell in love with him.

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One of the things I like about you is you love international basketball and taking big, giant takeaways from them even more than I do. I really value it. I think it's such an interesting kind of laboratory to put all these great players in and see how they're going to respond. The fact that Jokic... almost beat Team USA by himself. And it was sitting there for him.

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And he didn't have the most amazing game, but the fact was his team thought he was the best guy on the court and he gave them the chance and then they missed some shots.

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Well, remember the Spain team in the 2000s where Juan Carlos Navarro? Why isn't this guy? La Bamba. Why isn't this guy a 13-mile NBA?

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on a giant stage like this where it's like, hey, yo, shut down Curry. Make this your goal for two weeks. Take this guy out. What happens if they're just throwing big physical swings against Butler over and over again? And then the offensive rebounding and the big boy lineups, Shangoon, Draymond trying to guard Shangoon.

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I still feel like if you redo... That's a classic, let's redo the career and try another... try another outcome. Let's just hit the reset button on the video game and bring him into the NBA in 2009.

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He ended up on the dumbest team ever. Kobe fell into his leg. It was just, everything went wrong for four years. I still feel like there was a lot more there.

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This to me is a series where you could tell me they have those bets where you can bet on any outcome on FanDuel. Like Houston in five is plus 790. Golden State in seven is plus 530. You could give me any of those bets. I'm like, yeah, I could see it. Warriors sweep them. Sure. Maybe. Rockets sweep them. All right. Warriors are minus 166 favorites, Rob. Did that surprise you?

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Well, then you also have France at home, which is the other one.

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6452.79

It's weird because I actually think they really couldn't use Tatum in those games. And I understand why he didn't play. And, you know, I think in a weird way. You are in the minority because... No, I really get it. I just think they won the title and he was worn out and he had a kid and he missed a couple of practices and his shot was off and...

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When the flow of the game is in person, that's the weirdest thing to get used to. Also the five fouls. Things won't stop. Yeah, right. You get all of a sudden somebody has four fouls, there's 15 minutes left in the game.

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Well, you also can't chase calls in this, in that international version. You can't lurch into somebody and you can't get bailed out left and right.

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Well, would you change? So I've said this every four years. I would put a cap on the age of the guys we have. And I would go, you have to be in your 20s or your teens and that's it.

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That's like you're on a plane for a day and a half, right?

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So he's not in the new ownership group, I'm going to guess.

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Well, when you throw in like that little bully tax you have for the other owners, it's six one plus. It actually, that part goes into the sevens.

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Boston Celtics. Not a lot of franchises and pro sports like that. But yeah, it's nuts. They don't own their own arena. Now, they have an incredible power spot in that arena because if they decide to start building their own, the place they're in now is screwed. So they'll be fine.

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Well, especially once you go four rounds in the playoffs, that is a whole other level.

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So I don't believe that. I actually, I'm going to push back. I don't think that's why. I think the dad was old and I don't think he's 90. And I think they have four kids.

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He hadn't been to a game since 2010. I think he's like, let's sell this thing. We won the title. Let's go. And that, that, I really think it was that simple. Do I think Wick want to sell it? No.

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That this new owner, whenever he feels like, okay, I'm feeling good on all my business side. I'm ready to take over.

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You would know better than me. I really think this was a family thing and I think there was a lot going on that had nothing to do with the fortunes. That guy, Herb, the 90-year-old, the legend, he's made a kajillion dollars. You think he cares that they have some big tax bills? I don't know his finances. I know he's got a lot more now.

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The thing is, I don't think this would be the same roster, which is why the Celtics, this little run is so interesting. Not only are you trying to go back to back, but Odds are this won't be the same nucleus.

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It's the age-old thing, right? Like Dallas didn't do it in 11. We've seen teams say like, yeah, we took that. We've seen teams like the Pistons in the late 80s where they left Mahorn unprotected. I personally do not think the expensive guys will all be together next year, but I don't know.

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It just seems like it would make more sense for them if you're paying, let's say Holiday or Porzingis, you're paying those guys $34 million. But with all the other things that come into play, those guys now are worth $100 million. And you could reset that way and you lose one guy and you're weaker in one spot, but you still have Tatum and Brown.

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Yeah, because everybody always thinks Jalen's the one that they would trade. But as you know, and this is why with the Durant stuff, I just, I'm doing a lot of yeah butting with the Durant stuff. Like, well, they're going to trade Durant. It's like, Okay, cool. He makes $55 million a year and everybody is handcuffed by this tax in some way. It's not easy like it was.

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It's not easy to just get somebody that's making 55 to 60.

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We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. New rewatchables coming for you on Monday. You can watch all the old episodes we've done on that feed, which is a video podcast now on Spotify, plus Ringer Movies, our YouTube channel. And you can watch all the clips from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We are a video podcast now, which I hope you realize. Celtic City.

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Also, if you're trading him to a team that's over an apron, then once we start getting into the, I can only take one guy back, it's really stupid.

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Well, you could call Daryl Morey and ask how that worked out.

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I don't know where this goes because I think I've talked to a bunch of people about it. on both sides. And just the owners in general, they're always going to be smarter and they're always going to get whatever they want to get done, actually get done. And they're trying to put in all these protections basically against themselves.

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They're basically childproofing all of the electrical outlets around their house because they don't want to have their kids stick their finger in. That's exactly, that's a good, that's good. They have like eight owners who will just say, oh, what's this? And they get electrocuted. And that's all they care about. And I don't think the players, I just don't think they saw their side.

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I don't think saw it correctly. And they didn't see how hard this was going to be with keeping teams together, keeping players in cities. And eventually I think there's going to be a backlash with the salaries. We're going to move toward a little bit more like the Hollywood system where you have your two guys on the poster. Yeah. And then everybody else is way down there.

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So you think it's going to be like more of a Jalen Brunson type of situation?

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So you don't think we'll see Bradley Beal getting a no-trade clause and $50 million again? Well...

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This LeBron thing is, I just don't understand. I voted for him second team all NBA. So did I. So did I. He entered the league. I had been working for ESPN, I think, for a year. I did have a dog at that point. I think I was married. No kids. Like, this is... I just don't get it.

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It was basically the ticker on ESPN. Yes. Was breaking a lot of stuff. Even the website wasn't really, I was writing for it at that point. It wasn't really set up to be like, oh, this happened, boom, let's go.

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Everybody just went on Twitter to like make jokes.

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I even think like how different things were just from, You go the year that Twitter took off, 09, and there were all these stages with Twitter, right? Like the decision was a stage. The Blake Griffin being the first kind of guy who when he dunked, maybe you could see some grainy video of it on Twitter.

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And he became the first like social media dunk guy. Then the DeAndre Jordan thing was another great one where that was in real time we're following through Twitter how that's going. So it's had these...

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Or, oh, I didn't realize you were going to be at this dinner. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. With the owner of the team that has Cavspace.

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It's not good. Well, you mentioned some of these young guys, the Rockets, that we don't know what we're getting. The Warriors have guys who have never been in a situation where they've been counted on in a series like this. Guy Santos might have to play.

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And then every time you think we're post Twitter, then something like the Luca thing happens.

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And then it's, there you go. When did you find out? Did you find out?

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I'm sure there was a David Griffin typed out tweet there too.

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So what is your honest take for how many people knew before the trade came out?

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I think it was bigger. I know you do. And I think about an hour and a half before when Utah found out who was in the trade, then it's out. And I think it's out at that point. And I'm actually, and my theory was that even if they were telling other people they thought Luca was about to get traded, who would have ever believed that in a million years?

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And it was like, you might as well have said a UFO just landed on my roof. Right? There's no way to even conceivably think that was possible.

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Yeah. LeBron was awesome in the game, which I thought looking back is also really interesting. He was very energized in the two games leading up to.

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Moody, they actually really, really genuinely need big stretches from. They need him to guard whoever is hot. If Jalen Green's having a hot game, ultimately, I think it's probably going to be him guarding that. They're going to need people to protect the boards. This might be a dust-off Kavon Looney series. You might see Jackson Davis, who we haven't seen in forever.

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That's one of the, but you know, the person obviously didn't know, you know, but JJ, if people think JJ and Jason kid didn't know a couple of days before that trade, there's, I just, there's no way I don't believe it was days or hours.

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And like you read the people honestly think like LeBron and rich didn't know that that trade was coming and that Davis was just like, Yeah, I'll just waive my no trade. I just found out about this trade a minute ago.

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He loved being in LA. He loved being in the Lakers and the whole thing. And he's just, all right, fine, cool. Not only am I okay with the trade, I'm going to give up money.

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I think they knew, I would say, I don't know for sure, but I'm excited for when it all finally comes out. And I'm sure there's going to be a now, as Brian Curtis would say, a now they tell us.

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I can't wait for the now they tell us because I think the circle is wider.

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Well, Rich definitely knew because he had to, you know, the trade couldn't have happened if AD didn't wave the trade kicker. It would have been way more complicated.

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That's the red herring of this whole thing. I asked Rich about it. And also, do you think they really would have traded LeBron's guy, Anthony Davis? to another team and just not tell LeBron?

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If I had to bet on a scenario, I would bet that probably two, three, four days earlier.

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But I think it probably got to the point where they were like, I got to bring you in on this. I think we actually have a chance to do this. And that's when you expand it to the coaches. I know how the league works and so do you. You don't just hide shit from your best players. Nobody does that.

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And that's why the Durant thing was so crazy that they were shopping him around and not talking to him and Rich Kleiman about it.

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I just, if the thing that worries me the most out of all this shit, other than the home court is I haven't seen a better, nobody believes in a situation in around one in a while.

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But that's why it's so hard to do three, four teams.

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Plus, every team has the six people in the front office and one person who knows how much you can trust that one person out of the six.

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I don't think you look like a fool because I think they've all stuck to their story. But I just, I think Kid knew and I think Reddick knew and I think they knew for a while.

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You have this Rockets team that's had the two seed locked up for a week that already is pissed off and has an edge and has a coach who could not be less afraid of Steph Curry and LeBron and has already talked shit to both of them in the last year. And he's going to get these guys. I watched him do it in Boston. Nobody believes in you. We're underdogs even though we don't have game seven.

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That started like the World Cup was a big one for that.

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Well, and it was a shock that everybody could feel, whether you covered the league, talked about the league, wrote about the league, liked the league, were dating or married to somebody who was involved in basketball. Everyone had the same sort of, you remember where you were when it happened, which is such a rare thing for sports.

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Even the decision, I don't remember where I was when that happened because you knew it was coming. You know, I remember watching it. I don't remember where I watched it. This, I was watching a movie with my wife and I remember where we were.

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I don't think that thing went over well when he was complaining about stuff. I know it's tough to complain when you're either guy, when they gave up like 10 assets to put the two together. That's where, that's where I started having issues.

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Now look, this is a once in a lifetime situation. And as Russell and I talked about on Sunday, to do that without Reeves is the craziest part of the whole thing. Well, to me, like. I just don't understand how Reeves isn't in the deal. I'll never understand that for the rest of my life.

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Steph is the favorite, you know, the favorite character in the league.

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Yeah. Everyone's against us. The refs are going to be against us. We're going to go. We're going to have Golden State fans in our arena. Nobody thinks we can do this. I just feel like he's going to be pushing that, pushing that. But the question for me, CR, who is the guy? There's going to be three games in this series with three minutes left and now I have to match baskets with Curry and Butler.

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Totally acceptable. And I did Kamara, who I couldn't believe wasn't in the discussion for any of this stuff. Who the fuck knew who that guy was a year ago?

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No, I looked at the Reeves thing. I had four guys I liked, and the only thing with Reeves was I liked him last year. How much did he improve? He was really good last year.

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I shouldn't say what he said, but they were... No, I know this story because he was an undrafted free agent. Yeah, well, he wanted to make sure... And nobody really came after him.

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Well, and they knew that there was no... The Spurs, what I heard, the Spurs just kind of farted around with it for a few days. And he started to panic that he wasn't going to get an offer. And I think the Lakers strong-armed him. I mean, Palenka being a former agent, I think in situations like that, really helps him.

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But at least he gives a shit. There's guys who get taken advantage of, but at least they fight. He'll at least fight. We're going to see it in the playoffs. Everybody's going to target him for three rounds.

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Well, you could go through. We could have a draft. It's like, what if Fred Van Vliet thinks it's him? What if Dylan Brooks thinks it's him? We could get ugly pretty fast.

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That's why I didn't vote for Cade. Because I was like, Cade was the number one pick.

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That's why it's... And he's one of the best 45 guys in the league right now. Best 45, 50, whatever you want to put him. So at least if it's a two for one, you can talk yourself into it more.

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Eventually, it's like, we're going to lose Luka unless we don't do this. They're trading.

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And so I'm saying... We were almost done with this Lakers team. I mean, they were... This was it. They were last legs.

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Unbelievable. Well, I think it was honestly the greatest thing that ever could happen to Luka Doncic. Like we talk about Well, because not only do you go to a bigger market, you're going to be a bigger star and a team that has, you know, big resources. You get to play on a team that has a chance to win the title right now, but also like they lit a fire under them.

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We'll find out in the playoffs how he does and how everything fits in. And we're going to find out how the LeBron and Luka together, which I think LeBron's handled great so far. Is it going to be a little different in a game four when you're down 2-1 in a series? And who gets the ball? I can't wait for all that stuff.

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It's great for the league. It's great for us. It's great for LeBron. And LeBron's never been... In a situation where he clearly wasn't the most talented guy in his own team. Now, he's age 40. If this was 2012 LeBron, it would be a little different. But the only time I can remember even close was that first Miami season, which you covered. Because Wade was incredible that year.

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And LeBron was, yeah, LeBron was a mess for a variety of reasons. And Wade was awesome. That was probably the last great Wade season. Dwayne Wade was so great in that 2011 finals. One of the best. That was at game three. He was the game they won.

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He was awesome in that game. He was, I feel like he's weirdly become underrated now because his prime wasn't kind of as long as it should have been.

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Well, I felt like in, I remember writing this in 09 when he was stuck on pretty bad Miami team and he kind of carried them, got them in the playoffs. But I just felt like he was as good as Kobe for a couple of years there. And I don't think people, you know, I have Kobe as one of the 10 best players of all time. Like I wouldn't say that lightly, but I think Wade's best was as good as Kobe's best.

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And I think you saw it in the 06 finals. Like If he really wanted to be great, you could really build the right team around him and he could carry somebody to the top of the mountain. Kobe did it way longer and I think the problem for Wade is he had a six-year peak. He got hurt. He got hurt a bunch of times, but his peak was basically from 06 to 11. Kobe had the first peak

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And then I had the second peak from like 08 to, you know, 2012, where he had like almost a whole second career. For sure. And Wade was like, basically by the 2014 finals, wasn't an impact guy anymore.

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I wrote that when it happened. It was always like, he's going back to Cleveland. And I was like, he's dumping this Miami team because he knows, because he's a fucking basketball genius. He's like, this is done. I've maximized all of my assets out of this team. I'm out.

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He was like, he felt like he had like three more years.

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Like, okay, guys... It was four years that were like six years.

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It was in Indianapolis. Another vivid memory. And LeBron had a weird first half. And I think I said something at halftime, like, that was a weird LeBron half. It's almost like it broke his brain that Cleveland was getting the first pick. And that's because we were talking about that, that whole playoffs, whether he was going to go back there.

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It was an asset to trade. And that was the Kevin Love stuff had already started.

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I got mad on TV and then everyone got mad at me about that. I thought it was outrageous that they won three and four years.

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They've done a better job with it now. Like even, you know, Bob Carrington makes a crazy shot. So Utah's one and Washington's two, but they both have 14% odds and it's not as impactful as I think it would have been.

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It's Jack Landale. Didn't expect to see him. I was trying to think of what the narrative, it's a fun exercise when you're trying to think of what's going to happen to just think what the narratives would be after the series. And what we last, what's leading a podcast title, you know, what they're talking about on first take. With the Golden State, the ones are easy.

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Well, the schedule's too long. It just is. This is what happens when you're playing for fucking ever. And, you know, you get to mid-March and eight teams just want the season to be over. That's true. That's one. Were you touched when LeBron took that shot at you and everybody rallied to your defense? It was a great online moment for you. It was. People are very protective of you.

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So we have episode eight coming on Monday night. And it's the one about how everything turns in the 2000s heading into the KG era. It's really good. You're not going to believe this, but KG is a good interview. So you can check that out on Monday night. But in the meantime, because there's no basketball, we have a couple of playing games and then everything kicks in this weekend.

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It's a weird moment. To me, I read that as like, man, that's just, he said something and I bet he would take it back a day later.

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Every year you go viral on America's behind you. I don't know.

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like I said and I'm not just saying this like he doesn't know me anything so it's fine it was a great relationship for all sets yeah well I don't know how he feels about it but it was a great relationship for me I do think we are entering in this and we've hit all these different kind of checkpoints with basketball coverage and this whatever era we're in now where fan bases can be mobilized if somebody writes or says something that a player doesn't like that's a little hairy

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I couldn't agree more. We're supposed to be fair and accurate.

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Like, oh my God, Steph did it again. Yes. Wow. They just beat a team that was definitely better than them. Oh my God, play up Jimmy, the whole thing.

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It's like, even you look at the award stuff, which, you know, Zach just dumped his ballot at, at eventually.

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But like, you know, yoga, your SGA, it's a good battle. You talk to different people, they're going to say different things. Nobody is going to do an MVP vote. Like, finally, I get to do my anti-OKC agenda. Right. I'm so glad. Right. Like, I voted for Dort for Defensive Player of the Year and Dagdol for Coach of the Year.

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Um, it's like when they say like a golfer makes like an 18 footer at Augusta, they're like the guts, the guts to read that.

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Who could have predicted? I mean, it was a disaster when they did it in the 60s, and they had people voting for MVP. Some of the votes were... Bill Russell being like fifth.

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Only the NBA governor's meeting is more petty than the.

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Well, and also you can't fuck around with your ballot. You can't be like, I'm going to put Bronny James third for rookie of the year because then it's going to be shown that you did that.

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So I don't care if my vote's public. I watch basketball year. I really care about the process. I've talked about it forever. And I'm going to do my ballot the way I want to do it. I have a whole process and I care.

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If people disagree with it, that's fine. But I do wonder though, if they should make it private And if they don't like certain ballots, just knock those people out for the next year.

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Hold us accountable. Here's why I say that. I worry about the group think for stuff because people are afraid, oh, if I do this and not enough people are with me, then people are going to say whatever, right? And then if you're just like, ah, it's just safer for me to do this because I don't want to be noticed, then we're not voting anymore. And I do think people do that.

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you know, like if you are right, you've Jaron Jackson, you leave them off third to my MBA and then you run into him.

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But Jaren Jackson's an interesting one because I didn't have him.

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I can't argue with it. And Evan Moby was on it too. Speaking of arguing, we went way too long. We have to watch a play in basketball game.

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We now missed the first quarter, but I had a great time. It was good catching up with you.

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Oh, I'm glad. Well, you were great on that one. That was a really fun one to do.

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Great to see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Windhorse. Thanks to Mahoney and CR. Thanks to Jesse and Gahow and Saruti for helping out behind the scenes. Don't forget, you can catch up on Celtic City on Max if you haven't watched it. I'm really proud of it. I hope you like it. If you like basketball, I feel like you're going to like it.

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And then enjoy the playoffs this weekend. I'm going to be back with Rosillo on Sunday night after a whole smorgasbord of games. See you then. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

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Yeah. From a narrative standpoint... I think the guys that could come out of it from Houston's side are Shingun and clearly Thompson, which I think there's a disparity now between the people that actually give a shit about basketball and watch it. A lot of them work for us. To say, hey, have you seen Thompson? This guy's incredible. You're not breaking any new ground.

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Hey, Wemby and the Spurs are going to be in Austin next month, and I decided I wanted to see Wemby in Texas, and I have to go. I'm going to see him live. But while I'm in town, let's get together. Let's do a live show. Paramount Theater in Austin on Wednesday, February 19th. Tickets go on sale tomorrow at 10 a.m. Central Time. Again, live, Austin, Wednesday, February 19th.

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Is there any explanation for the weird pace of the Eagles offense and the lack of unpredictability and just how there's a sameness to every drive? There's a methodical nature to it and they never zag. They never keep you on your toes. Why do they do it that way? I just don't understand it as a football fan.

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So just save as few plays as possible. Keep the clock moving. Yeah.

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They'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a Vrbo. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you missed part one of this podcast, we put it up earlier today and it was a mid-season power poll. that I got a lot of takes off on and really had a good time.

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Possible new rule. This is not in the manifesto. I'm just going to throw it out here as a possibility. Possible new rule. Beware of any home playoff favorite with a frustrated fan base that might kind of hate the team, coach, and or QB.

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So for the lean for a million-dollar picks, I think House and I, we were talking about it earlier. If I had to bet it straight up, I would take the Eagles, and I think the Rams won their game. I think the biggest manifesto rule is we're the team that looked too good last week. I think they fit. I like them more on a tease or a parlay though. And I think that's the play with them.

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And if, you know, if they screw us, they screw us. But I think that's the way to go. You, are you safe with that shield?

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Let's do Chiefs-Texans really quick. Chiefs minus eight and a half over the Texans. I still feel like if they call the intentional grounding on Stroud or if that fumble shotgun that goes over his head bounces to the left and the Chargers are up 13-0, that game's probably over. It was like it gave Stroud the superpower. I wasn't really impressed with either of those teams.

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Meanwhile, you got Casey, three wins from a three-peat. Andy Reid could have 29 playoff wins by mid-February. Mahomes could be 18 and three in the playoffs by mid-February. They're plus 350 for the Super Bowl, which seems high because I think I clearly think they're going to win this game. And now you're just you basically have plus 350 for two games.

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The the one that jumped out to me, though, this was in the bundles column about how Casey has failed to cover every seven plus spread this season.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Oh, and seven, even though they want all of those games shield. So this looks like the classic, just put them in a tease parlay because this is just what they do. They went by seven, they went by four, they went by three. And yet I like how the chiefs look lately. This is the best version of them we've seen this year. Could this be a little bit of a breakout party for them? Where are you leaning?

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And then Joel Anderson and Van Lathan joined me to talk about college football and a whole bunch of other stuff. The Ohio State Notre Dame game, Joel's five favorite things. Really fun pod, but we had to keep going because football is happening this weekend. Round two, NFL playoffs. I have Sheil Kapati and Joe House joining us.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So Chiefs, eighth run, eighth against the run, fourth QB hits, six QB hurries, 11th tackles behind the line of scrimmage. House, there's a random non-nerd sports hack talk case with Mahomes where it's been Lamar and Josh for three, four weeks here. And Mahomes is kind of shoved to the side. He's like old guy Mahomes, even though he was like 27, 28. It's like, oh yeah, and Patrick Mahomes.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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But all the hype with this Lamar versus Josh and everyone talking about them the whole year and the Ravens and they're the best team. And it's just fucking fuel for that. Everything we know about Mahomes, this is absolute fuel for this dude. And I wonder if this is, he pulls it out this week, House. And he waves it around and he does the lasso. And he's like, this is the first game of the weekend.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Hey, by the way, I'm Patrick Mahomes. And he just does 17 Mahomes things and reminds us how great he is.

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We're gonna break down every game, our favorite parts of each matchup, and then we're gonna do some million dollar picks. I mentioned I wanted to talk about the wildfire recovery efforts out here in Southern California. Look, there's a lot of great things happening. I wanted to pass along five charities that I really like. The Wildfire Recovery Fund, which is calfund.org.

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Winter still has to go through me. I just, I think those certain guys are like Brady was always wired like this and he's talked about it pretty openly. Like these guys take everything personally. They take every slate. They notice everything. They pretend they don't, but they do. Shield. Is this add up to it all? This could be an FU performance from Mahomes.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So one bet, and this is something we saw last week with the quarterbacks that you don't want them to run during the first 18 weeks of the season. But when we get to the playoffs, you start using your legs more. And this has been, we've cashed in on this with Mahomes so many times. Like he's basically even odds, 25 plus yards this week. Against Houston. We know he does this in the playoffs.

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In the playoffs, he starts moving around more, taking more chances using his legs. So, you know, I thought last week I was mad that I didn't think of that with Lamar. It was so obvious that, of course, they were going to do that. Of course, he was going to use his legs like that. With the Texans, their D-line's really good. That's the one, like their ends can put some pressure on.

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And the Chiefs tackles make me nervous. And as I play the game out on my head shield, that's the one thing I keep coming back to is like, let's say this is just one of those weird, classic, ugly first half Chief playoff games. They're putting pressure on Mahomes. They get the one long Nico Collins pass. Chiefs guy fumbles a punt. And all of a sudden it's like 10-7 Texans at halftime.

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We're like, what the hell is going on? My tease is in danger. What's happening? I don't see another scenario other than that. Is there anything else we're not thinking of?

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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He's an unusual quarterback because during the same game, it can feel like he lost his confidence and then he completely gained it back and it's like has swagger. And it's all happening over the course of three hours. And you saw it happen last week. The playoff manifestos for this one. This is a big one. Rule number six, never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe it has a chance to win.

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And this has been something that's been really helpful over the years. And if, look, if you bet, if you pick Casey minus eight and a half and they don't cover the odds of threading that needle between the higher number and them winning, like, you know, we call it, I, I'm just, I just want to pick winners and not worry about the line.

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It's set up by the California Community Fund. That's just trying to get money to all the places we need as Southern California is obviously in a major, major crisis right now. The SoCal Fire Fund, which you can find at eifoundation.org, eifoundation.org.

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So maybe a little bit less on that, but I don't think Houston has a chance to win. I don't think they're good enough. Um, so that's one, but where of all dome teams playing outdoors, especially in cold weather, boom, Texans, there's a beware of any team that reminds you of the 2007 giants rule. I just want to, I don't think the Texans remind me of the 2007 giants, but I just wanted to talk it out.

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There's a couple similarities, right? Mix and run in the ball, kind of a younger erratic up and down quarterback like Eli in 2007, a good pass rush, a really good coach. There's elements, but I'm not willing to go there. Sheila, you agree? I don't think so. Yeah, that would shock me.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Rule number 16 is take one last look at the quarterbacks. It's Mahomes versus Stroud. Mahomes has lost three times. He lost the D Ford game to Brady. His first year as a starter, where if D Ford doesn't say it's one of the great breaks in the history of Boston sports, D Ford jumping offsides. You have that.

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You have him get his ass kicked by the, by Tampa in the super bowl where, you know, there's real reasons for that. Tampa's defense was great. They were able to pressure him the whole game. It was a, it was a little bit of a goofy Casey season. So that was the second one.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And the third one was the game House and I lost incredible amounts of money on when the Bengals beat the Chiefs, where Mahomes got concussed at the end of the second quarter and they pretended he wasn't. But something happened and he was never the same the rest of the game. My point is, it's very unusual for Patrick Mahomes to lose in the playoffs.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And I feel pretty safe about putting money on him against the Houston Texans, guys. Yeah, agreed. I think we're unanimous. Okay, great. We're going to take a break and hit the other two games. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. From first whistle to final drive, FanDuel takes the NFL playoffs to the next level.

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It provides immediate long-term support for community-centered recovery initiatives that aid students, school employees, and families impacted by the January 2025 fires. The third one is the LAFD Foundation Emergency Fire Fund, which you can find at supportlafd.org. They provide vital equipment and fund critical programs to help the LAFD save lives, protect communities.

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Right now, new customers can bet $5 and get $300 in bonus bets if you win. That's $300 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet. The FanDuel app gives you everything you need for live bets, same game parlays, so much more. Plus, when you win, you'll get paid instantly. We're ripping through million-dollar picks. At the end of this podcast, I like round two. We have some good props as well.

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So stay tuned for that. Visit Fando.com slash BS to join today. Get started with $300 of bonus bets. Again, Fando.com slash BS. You can go check out the ringer specials as well on the NFL page. Make this playoff season unforgettable with Fando, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. Must be 21 plus in president select states or 18 plus in president DC.

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First online real money wager, only $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets, which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions by receipt terms. At sportsbook.fando.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

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State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

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Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Paramount+. Ridley Scott's return to ancient Rome in Gladiator 2 is nothing short of awesome, and now you can stream it at home on Paramount+.

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Years after the death of Maximus, Lucius is forced into the Colosseum after his home is conquered by tyrannical twin Roman emperors. With the future of the empire at stake, he must find strength and honor to return the glory of Rome to its people. Gladiator 2.

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Now streaming on ParamountPlus.com, rated R. All right, our third game, the Lions against the Washington Seawords, the beloved team of Joe House. So here are the rookie quarterbacks that have made the conference title, Game House.

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Daniels is the most talented of all of those guys. His team needs him the most out of all of those guys. And I'm just pointing that out because it's so Brady first year as a starter made the Super Bowl. Mahomes first year as a starter almost made the Super Bowl. So if you think he's on that class, maybe that's a better comparison.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Does Daniels have it in him to win two playoff games and drag this team to the conference title game?

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Paramount Theater, some special guests. Basically, the BS podcast just doing its thing. Tickets go on sale Saturday at 10 a.m. Central Time. Details will be available at theringer.com slash events very soon. Hope to see you there. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel.

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Then there's World Central Kitchen, wck.org. Their relief team is in Southern California right now supporting first responders and families impacted by wildfires in the LA area. They have a link at the top when you go right to WCK to help Los Angeles specifically. And then last but not least, Habitat for Humanity, which has really gotten involved in the last week.

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So everything House just laid out, Shiel. This is why I'm not betting it because I always lose on over-unders, but the over-under seems so high to me. It's 55 and a half. The Lions, I think, are 33 and a half, the over-under for their total points on FanDuel. And I agree with House.

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I think Washington's going to try to have these long-ass drives and try to keep it to seven possessions on each side, and that's it. Why does everybody think this is going to be a shootout?

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Also in a dome. against a not that good defense. It doesn't seem like the crowd's going to bother him because it doesn't seem like anything bothers him. And the amazing thing is how much they fucking trust him, House. Some of the things they were asking him to do in the second half, it was like he's 32 years old.

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That little lob screen pass that was one of the key plays of the game, nine things can go wrong in that play, but they trusted him. It just seems like over and over again, he has the wherewithal to know what to do in the right spots. He's really exciting. I think the line's too high.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Um, I, I'm not going to put like a ton of money on Washington or anything, but I, you know, I was looking at the outline of Washington plus four and a half is plus one 82 on Fando that I think this could be a close game. It reminds me of some of the games last year when we had, you know, green Bay, uh,

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As a, as a big underdog, we had Tampa as a big underdog with the Rams or an underdog at one point. Like I think they can score. And I think even if they're down 14 plus, they can make, you know, get a cheap touchdown down the stretch.

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They have a disaster response fund set up on their website at habitat.org for the wildfires. So I'm committing $250,000 total, 50K apiece to the five that I just mentioned. And if you're listening, do whatever you want. Do whatever you can. There's no right answer for any of this, but that's what I'm doing at least. All right, we are going to talk football right now with Sheil and House.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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That's my fear. Like you just, I always write down all the different stats and see how the teams match up in the offense versus defense. And you just see that Washington defense 30th against the run Detroit six with the run. And that was without Montgomery the last couple of weeks. And there, the fear would be Detroit just rushing, you know, 49 carries for 270 yards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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One of those games manifesto rules, but where have the, nobody believes in us team is Washington or nobody believes in us team house. Cause it seems like there's belief.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Bradley Beal was the other one. God damn it. Let's just, let's, let's move on. Well, you're talking about Washington stars with huge balls who came through in big moments. That was the other guy that jumped to mind for me. You got a bunch of pick swaps for him. You're a dick. Two more manifesto rules. Never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe it has a chance to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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I don't necessarily think Washington's going to win, but I also don't really believe in that Detroit defense either. And part of the calculus, when you think about we're back in on Detroit, partly because their defense looks so good against Minnesota. And then the Rams who were 26, the DVOA also looked awesome against Minnesota. And some, where do we stand on the Detroit defense right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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House, is it possible for you to talk about the resurgence of Washington football over the last 12 months without breaking into tears?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So Washington ultimately is a football town and this brought it back after Dan Snyder basically injected medicine into everybody's bodies to put them into a medical coma the entire time he was an owner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Stay safe out there in Southern California. Hope everybody's good. We're going to talk some football right now. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this. It is Thursday afternoon, Pacific time. Joe House is here because we did Million Dollar Picks. We did not get to do them last week. We're going to try to bounce back strong this week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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She when I met House in nineteen eighty eight. And we went to college together. You were a year ahead of me, but 88, 90, 88, 89, 90, 91. And the Washington was like, they were probably the team. There was a bunch of successful teams in the 80s, but they were the most consistently successful over like a 12-year span all the way through the Ripon Super Bowl.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And that's how I knew you as this confident football fan. And then I gradually watched it get beaten out of you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Think about how bad that was for me. Well, we both sucked in the 90s and then it went back. But is it weird for you that Washington has hope again? Because you've probably kind of given up on them as an Eagles fan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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It's funny that you can be good at owning one team and then bad at owning the other team. Yes. But it's basically like you would think it was something in the same skill set. All right, so we're going to lean toward, so Lions and a parlay or tees, we're all good with that?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And then maybe a little hedge, Washington bet, like a little tiny one house?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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All right, the big kahuna, Ravens-Bills, which flipped. It was Bills minus one and a half, and now it's Ravens minus one and a half, as predicted on this podcast with Sal on Sunday. There's so many ways to go with this. And a couple of people have brought up versions of this, but I feel like I've been alive long enough that I've seen a lot of these.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Like people throw in like the great QB matchups and they just grab two people who are really good. To me, it's different than a great QB matchup It's a point of the career QB matchup, which I think is completely different and a lot more special, right? So I wrote down, like, when we were in college, Montana and Elway played in the Super Bowl. And it was really meaningful.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Elway felt like this one-man band. Montana had a chance to be, like, the greatest ever. And it was like, who's winning this? And just that moment felt important. Elway Favre was really fun. Elway had already won. Favre was kind of the next Elway. Elway's trying to go back to back. Favre's like the next guy. That was like a QB moment.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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06, some people would say 03, 04, but Brady wasn't Brady really until 06. I don't personally think. 06, he had nobody. The Colts were the team. He goes in there in Indianapolis. It's Brady versus Manning. Manning's never beaten him in a big game. Manning comes back from 18. That was awesome. Brady versus Russell Wilson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Would you put that in there for where we were with Russell Wilson in 2014 in the Super Bowl, already winning a Super Bowl title? Felt like he was heading toward Rodgers. Is he not quite good enough, Sheil?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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All right, we'll cross off then. 2018... Brady versus Mahomes in KC, AFC title game. And then same thing 2020 when Brady was on the Bucs. That was the last time that Brady Mahomes was like the old, the old Wison champion versus the new upstart. This Lamar Josh battle is so unusual because neither guy has won. And they're at this awesome point in their career.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Even like I mentioned, 06, 98, Montana, Elway, like one side had won. This one, neither guy has won. And they're competing against each other for the right to now have to then beat Patrick Mahomes. It's a really unusual game. Sheil, can you remember any matchup quite like this in football? We've seen it in basketball, but not in football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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House, I know how you feel about this game. This just seems like a terrible matchup for Buffalo. I just don't like the matchup. It's like a basketball team that's just going against an awesome center and doesn't have enough size to defend the center, right? It's like those three Shackiers in the Lakers where they would just play whoever. They play the Sixers, the Nets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And you just felt like, man, they just... They don't have the size. I just think Baltimore has too much size for this Buffalo defense. I don't see a world... where that Buffalo defense can win the game, which means Allen just has to be perfect and has to have one of the great moments of his career, I think, to beat them. You agree on this seems stacked for Baltimore angle, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And we brought in the real star of the Ringer Sunday pregame show, Shio Kapadia, who comes in every couple weeks like Dion Waiters and just crushes it. Big heat checks from you. Congrats on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Sheil, I watch Hard Knocks because they're doing the AFC North. So I actually watched this week's episode. And they had a lot of like behind the scenes stuff of before the game and during the game. And Lamar is just so fucking confident. And all the stuff they capture, like a confident in a way that I just don't remember seeing in the previous things. I think, I think they all know something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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They have something special with this combo with the Lamar and Henry that it's just unusual. It's different. It stands out. It's hard to stop. And they have a swagger to it. You could just kind of see it. And, and what was really interesting about it, they had Cam Hayward mic'd.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And near the end of the first half, when the, when the Ravens got that last touchdown and the Steelers are on the field and he's like, we got to try to strip the ball. Like I'm, I'm dead. Like I, like they're wearing us down. We got to like force a turnover. Cause he knows he was like, they were like killing them. Um, I just don't see why that wouldn't also happen to Buffalo's defense.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So is there, what, what world does, does Buffalo win this game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Two playoff manifesto rules. Rule number nine, severely discount anything that happened in the first five to six weeks of the season. That's a good one. That's a good one. When we go back to week four, week five, guys are out. It's just stupid. I always discount that. Rule number 16, take one last look at the quarterbacks. Here's the difference. This isn't just Allen versus Lamar.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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It's Allen versus Lamar and Henry. Yeah. I like James Cook. He's good. The Henry thing is different. And especially if they have a lead in the way they can keep it. I also feel like Baltimore's defense is just awesome against the run. And we saw it again, like for Pittsburgh, it was just the all time worst case scenario matchup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So for Alan, I think to beat them, he's going to have to do stuff with his legs. He's going to have to use his different receivers. It's going to be a lot of like moving the ball, 10, 11, 12 play drives. I just think Baltimore is the best team guys. Now, we've been in this spot heading into round two, and usually it doesn't work out with whoever we think that team is. I think they're really good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And I'm always a little slow. The catch is the playoff Lamar piece. And what's interesting about this matchup is the stakes for both guys, if one of them really fails in this spot. We talk about legacy a lot in sports, but Lamar kind of needs this game. If he loses this one now with the better team,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Then I think it opens up a conversation where, cool, you're the regular season guy, but every year in January, we see the same thing happen. What are you doing wrong? Talk about playoffs with quarterback shield. Is that fair to hang the losses on them like we do? Semi-fair, a little bit fair? Where do you stand?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Shield, this is what success looks like. Success comes with a backlash. You're feeling the backlash now. Minus 110 or better. Listen, that's all I look at. And then I go with the pick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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We're going to take a break and come back and do Million Dollar Picks. Shayla, you're going to stay on. We'll do Million Dollar Picks for round two. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Here's the thing about Prime. Whatever you're into. It makes it even better.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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I love, because we watch a lot of prime movies for the rewatchables, I love being able to pop up the x-ray thing that tells you what actor is in what scene. I love that. I love being able to rent movies that just came out or buy them if I'm excited to do that. From streaming to shopping, It's on Prime. Visit amazon.com slash prime to get more out of whatever you're into.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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This message is a paid partnership with Apple Card. If you want to take control of your finances, Apple Card is where it starts. A credit card that can give you up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase. I have one. I can tell you this is true. I know and love Apple Card. So many places I can use it, especially during a busy time here with football, basketball, the holidays.

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All at once, I can use my Apple Card on tickets to a game, a gift from my dad, or even tickets as a gift for my dad. Plus, anytime there's a new Apple product, It's a lot easier. Apply for an Apple Card today. It's easy. Just go to the Wallet app on your iPhone. Again, that easy. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Can we go right to the Eagles-Rams game? We're going to break down all four games. Sheil is a Philly student. You can see him on the ringer Philly special sometimes. So I do the playoff manifesto and I'm going to read all the rules in a second. The playoff manifesto goes back to the late nineties. I've been honing it, cultivating it, working it, adding rules, taking out rules.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Terms and more at applecard.com. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year, by the way.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn. With unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common, LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying. In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them

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could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons. Once again, linkedin.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. All right. Million dollar picks round two. I'm going to throw out some possible bets. Ravens minus one and a half we talked about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Shields sounds like he's you just like the dog. You don't feel like you're, you're just afraid of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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I just, I felt before I even knew what the line was, I was like, I just like the Ravens. I think it's a bad matchup for the bills. If the bills were playing the chiefs, I'd feel better about it. I just don't like the Ravens bills. So we're probably going to put something on Ravens minus one. Now there's a couple parlay teaser options that, with Chiefs, Eagles, Lions on FanDuel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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We did a little eight-point tease, even odds. Oh. We could take the Eagles all the way to plus one and a half. I know it infuriates Raheem, but it's actually better odds than the Moneyline Parlay to do the eight-point tease and to bring everything down. There's a seven-point tease that's plus 120. And there's a six-point tease that's plus 140.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So you would have Baltimore, I'm sorry, KC minus two and a half, the Eagles minus two and a half. Oh no, the Eagles even, Lions minus two and a half. So my instinct is the eight-point tease, and you just have to win the Chiefs, you just have to win the Lions, and then you get the free point and a half in the Eagles game, and that's even odds, and who's going to fuck us? Is my instinct.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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I think that Lions 33 and a half is too high, but I don't want to bet it because I could also see a world where they score like 50 points. But I just think it's too high. I think they're trying to sucker you into. It's a lot of points, especially with how we laid out the game. I like the Mahomes 25 plus rushing yards bet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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That's one 15-yard scramble when he does the thing where he sticks the ball out at the end and then gets a cheap shot and tries to pretend he got knocked unconscious for a second to try to get the flag. And two more scrambles. It's like a four for 27 shield. Does that make sense to you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Eagles Rams has more manifesto rules attached to it than any playoff game I can ever remember.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Which one do you like more? The 4.5 runs or the 25 plus yards?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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You can do both. Yeah, no, I'm doing parlay him, but that's plus one 10 on Fando. I'm going to mark that one down. So Kelsey and Hopkins to both score touchdowns.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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It has red flags. It has come hither. This is good. It is all over the map, which is what I could imagine you're probably feeling with this Eagles game, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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It's been interesting watching them integrate him into their offense. And it seems like they really like him inside the 10. Usually it's Kelsey. It seems like they like him too. I've always had bad luck with the TD bets, but I mentioned that. Stafford and Stroud to both throw a pick. So two road QBs against good defenses. Both throw a pick. Plus 195.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Super Bowl 59 is here and you can bet on America's number one game with America's number one sports book any way you want. Fun markets. who have the most yards, tons of same-game parlays, offensive titties in the next drive, so much more. It's the most fun thing about the Super Bowl for me, other than watching the game. I love the Super Bowl props.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Henry and Barkley both scored touchdowns plus 134 on Sunday. The little Sunday running back stud touchdown parlay. Henry with Hurts bumps to plus 175. Tush pushy. Something. Five yard scramble. Play both. Hurts TD plus 175. Play both. Josh Allen touchdown is plus 105.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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House, have you ever experimented with the longest rush? I feel like I'm doing an exotic tequila shot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Barclay's minus 120 for Barclay, 19 and up. And then for Henry, it's probably, I'm going to guess the same. That will be 20 and a half minus 120. So if you try to hit both of them, probably split one, maybe lose a little big or hit both. What do you think, House? parlay him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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All right. So we're going to add that one. Plus 236. And then there's some most rushing yards that I thought were interesting. Henry plus 320. Barkley plus 155. The Barkley plus 155 I thought was a little delectable. Gibbs plus 550, but Montgomery is probably going to be back. So I don't know how many carries he's going to get.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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But the rushing receiving one I really liked was McLaurin plus 850 for most receiving yards this weekend. Some garbage time stuff. One long one. House seems dubious.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So we got to go through the manifesto. Before we do, House. You're leaning Eagles. You're Eagles-ish, too, for this game, correct?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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So plus eight 50, most rushing, most receiving for the weekend. I think it's worth that little dabble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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And then the last one, Washington plus four and a half plus one 82. Is it worth a dabble?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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It's like a very, very hairy middle, which is why you probably don't do it. If you take the Lions, you're just rooting for the Lions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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See, I've never seen House do this before with gambling where he doesn't want to jinx his own team. It's really interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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It's time. The Million Dollar Picks, round two, here with Joe House and Shiel Kapadia. We're up 1.867 million for the season. We took last week off. We're coming back strong. First bet, an eight point tease on FanDuel with the Chiefs minus eight and a half, the Eagles minus six and a half, and the Lions minus eight and a half. We're teasing all them down. It is even odds on FanDuel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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We are breaking the Raheem Palmer rule. We're teasing the Eagles through the zero. I can see him like almost having a convulsion right now, but Eagles to plus one and a half, the other two just to win. That's plus 100. We're going to put 300K on that. Next bet. The Ravens. Minus one and a half. Sheil was nervous about this one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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House and I just think it's no disrespect to the great people of Buffalo. Bad matchup. Wrong team, wrong time. Ravens minus one and a half. We are putting 250K on that one. And then we're going to dabble on some stuff. Some 10K. Mahomes, four and a half runs over, plus 110. Saquon and Henry. Saquon, 18 and a half yards over longest run. With Henry, longest run, 20 and a half, plus 236.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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That's Red Shield. I think so. Each bus runs were good. It's a great one. Stafford Stroud, both to throw one interception as the road quarterback in potentially bad weather games, plus 195. So we're doing McLaurin over 68 and a half receiving yards? One dude's two small McLaurin bets?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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McLaurin over 60 and a half. McLaurin to have the most receiving yards of the weekend, plus 850, where there's two games outdoors. He's one of the only ones indoors. And what do you want to put in the parlays? 25K or 10K? I mean, not the parlays, the prop bets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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10K. And those are the million dollar picks for round two. Shale, happy gambling. Good luck with the Eagles. House, happy gambling. Good luck with the Washington. Whatever your name is now.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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35 degrees, maybe worse. Rain and snow, potentially. Matthew Stafford coming from LA. I'll go through some of the manifesto rules because it really is eye-opening. Rule number one, beware of the looked a little too good the previous playoff round team. That couldn't be more Ramsey. Rule number three, beware of the nobody believes in us team. Don't try to talk yourself into one either.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8HOPE NY or text HopeNY in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off.

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February 6th trade deadline is here, by the way. Just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team That starts with better insights from LinkedIn.

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In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them could be your next all-star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash Simmons.

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Once again, LinkedIn.com slash Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Hookah. I've got to talk to you guys about the Bondi 9, the new daily trainer from Hookah. The Bondi 9 delivers peak plushness for everyday miles overhauled from top to bottom.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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I think the Rams are trying to, there's a nobody believes in us case. Rule number four, a sad one, but beware of any team that might use a major off-field distraction as a galvanizing force leading up to a game. We saw that last week, the Rams, all the terrible stuff in LA. It really seemed like it affected them in the game positively.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Rule number six, never pick an underdog unless you genuinely believe that it has a chance to win. I'm going to stop there before I keep going with the rules. Do the Rams genuinely have a chance to win, Sheil?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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You can also check out their Super Bowl squares, pick your own numbers, and... Make your pick for a kick of Destiny 3 between the Manning brothers. I'm picking Peyton Manning every time because Eli Manning took two Super Bowls from me, so he can screw off. When you win, you'll get paid instantly.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Unfortunately, it was the sports movie for him where the final scene was him, his teammates lifting him up after the Packers game and going nuts. And the movie should have just ended. Yeah. But there was 20 minutes to go in the movie. And he got his ass kicked by the Lions in last week against the Rams. Sheil, we didn't talk about this on the pod, at least with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Were you surprised that Darnold cratered like that? Because he roped me in. He roped me in. He roped Salen. Did he rope you in? He kind of half roped you in, right, House?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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I stayed at the craps table too long with Sam Darnold and with the Steelers heading into December. Just should have taken my chips, gone with House to get some food, some 2 a.m. pizza, and just would have been super happy with it. Hey, House, when he said the Daniel Jones mistake... which I think is a great way to frame it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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That's basically been the philosophy of the Washington Wizards for the last 40 years, right? The Daniel Jones mistake. This guy showed some hope. Here's a lot of money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Download the app today and bet the big game with FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 59. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Well, you know, Embiid, he'll be back eventually when there's not four really tough games in five. When do you play Charlotte? Embiid's going to be back for that one. Circle it. Embiid's got Charlotte circled. Is there a Toronto game? Oh, I'll play against Toronto. That's great. All right. More manifesto rules. We're not even done with this game.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Beware of all dome teams playing outdoors, especially in cold weather. Yikes. Rule number eight. Beware of any and all aging QBs in cold weather unless they drink half their body weight in water and like 40 things Tom Brady did. Rule number 15. This is working against the Eagle Shield. Okay. Make sure the team with a home field advantage actually has a home field advantage.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Philly's in that weird zone. The fans... They get fickle really fast. They get upset really fast. There's an ornery vibe in that stadium. Do you feel that changes this week with the snow and the rain or does it get worse?

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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It's the only out of the four home games house. it's the only crowd that I feel like you might be able to take out in the first quarter. I don't feel like you're taking out Buffalo. Casey's been there too many times. Detroit's going to be a mad house. I don't feel like that crowd's going to get nervous, but I feel like you can get to the Philly crowd.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Cause there's that model of the Eagles, that first quarter, 39 seconds of play. It's just, it just feels clumsy and discombobulated. It's zero, zero after the first quarter. Don't you think house? Like there's, well,

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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This episode is brought to you by Vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With Vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team In peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with Vrbo, you know all the people in your house. They'll be friends.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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The only thing I didn't believe about everything you just said is when you said the good people of Philadelphia. You don't like Philadelphia. Who are you kidding? You don't. Buddy. You don't like Philadelphia. You don't.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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After at about the 45 minute mark when everyone else is finished and the house is still eating somehow.

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Part 2: Josh Vs. Lamar, Mahomes’s F-You Game, and the Round 2 NFL Mega-Preview With Sheil Kapadia and Joe House

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Two more rules. Take one last look at the quarterbacks. And remember, there's plenty of time to bet against any QB or coach. This is specifically a Hertz question. So I know, is Hertz, what does he command on your Eagles text thread, Shiel? How much of the conversation is what's up with Hertz? Like 40%, 20%, what is it?

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Really, really, really, really great scoring guard. I mean, he was 11 for 16 today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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They were keying on him. He just always takes good shots. It's surprising when he misses. He just has figured out how to navigate all the weird pseudo-travel, pseudo-carry stuff that people get away with. He's one of the best at it. Always is able to pull off an extra foot and a half, two feet. I haven't really seen anybody... Slow them down. You know, Chris Dunn, a tiny bit. Not Chris Dunn.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Who'd they play in the last one? I'm blanking. Who was the guy? There was one guy on Memphis that I felt like. Did anyone on Memphis really slow him down? Maybe nobody. Maybe I'm just hallucinating.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Chris Dunn did a, I guess he did a good job on Murray a couple of times until he couldn't make a corner three anymore. Mixing up my series. Let's take a break for the podcast. Vandal is getting into the action right from the first tip. for the NBA playoffs. We've had a lot of tips.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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We're headed toward round three, but all customers get a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend when you bet the NBA playoffs. Use your token on three plus legs, same game parlay or same game parlay plus in any NBA playoff game. You'll get bonus bets back. if you don't win. It's the most fun to bet on Jokic. Just bet on Denver spread, Jokic over points, Jokic rebounds, and just root for Jokic.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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This might be our last time. Just join me. There's no better place to bet all the playoff action. And bet on Nicole Jokic. Bet America's number one sports book. Visit Fandle.com slash BS. Get a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend of the NBA playoffs. And then during the middle of the week, we do Taylor Fade with me. I hit it again. I've won my last two Taylor Fades.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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We do that on either Wednesdays or Thursdays. Fandle is the official sports betting partner of the NBA. You must be 21 plus and president in select states or 18 plus and president in D.C., Opt-in required. Minimum three-leg parlay required. Refund issued as a non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Restrictions apply, including token expiration. See terms at sportsbook.fando.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Degree Original Cool Rush Deodorant. Remember last year, people got really mad when Degree changed their Cool Rush formula? One dude even started a petition. What was up with that guy? Well, guess what? Degree listened.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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they admitted they messed up. They're bringing back the original Cool Rush scent and thank God. You've got to love when a brand can own its mistakes and it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores right now for under $4. Grab some. Find out why it's been the number one men's antiperspirant. for the last decade. By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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It's getting sweaty in the summers. The original degree cool rushes back and it smells like victory for all of us. Pressure rankings for game seven. Who has the most pressure in this game? Who are you the most worried about?

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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In what capacity? Guarding Jokic or threes or what? Just as a third scoring option?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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So you have, I agree with this, Jalen Williams one, Chet two. Yeah. Then a Denver guy has to be three. So who's the Denver guy?

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Do we, can you have pressure if I'm not expecting anything from you? I would say it's Christian Brown because the threes, what was he in the threes today?

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I feel like if he can hit some threes now, I at least have a semi fourth guy. Right. And Porter is just, I have no idea what I'm getting with him. And I mean, Porter just seems, I feel bad for him because I don't think we knew he was hurt in the Clipper series, at least for a couple games. Now we know like we're going to find out. It's quite bad. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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We were going to find out he has like torn ligaments in his shoulder or whatever it is. Um, but it's just too erratic. He's better than he's playing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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We get OKC versus Denver, which has been an absolutely awesome, awesome series. I felt myself getting sad in the first half when OKC started to pull away. And I was like, oh, man, what a journey this has been with Jokic with this weird team and his teammates that are either hurt or they don't show up. Then they're good again. Then they're not good. And he's the one constant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I watch a lot of Nuggets. And Westbrook, there can be like he's chest out, maniac, screaming to the crowd, Westbrook. Or he can be, I'm in my own head, Westbrook, which we've seen at a lot of different end of the seasons. I don't think he's looked the same the last two games. I'm not even talking about how he's playing. And I really wonder if that Ramona Shelburne story in ESPN...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Because I just, he's looked the last two games. As you know, I'm the body language doctor. I graduated 1998. Do you have to like recertify your boards or something? No, I just got the diploma. I just put it up. It's over there. You're done. Yeah, it's over there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Yeah, maybe I should go take a psychology seminar every once in a while. His body language the last two games felt a little last year on the LeBron Lakers-ish to me. Uh-oh. Or Clippers playoff-ish, just a little off the rails and not... I thought one of the cool things about, especially in the Clippers series...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Was he really, he really brought energy and charisma and personality and passion and seemed like was the teammates were in. You have these stories where you have unnamed teammates taking shots at you. And I don't know, like he's a human being. Like if you read that or hear about that, all of a sudden you have eyeballs in the back of your head.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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But I thought it was, I just think there's a strange vibe to him. I don't know if the playing in OKC, I think that part's also weird where he's, you know, the most popular OKC player ever. He leaves, they immediately replace him with a more popular player and a better team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And, you know, it seems like he's got, even in the first couple of games of the series, I felt like he was really taking that personally. Now he feels more like Clippers series last year, train wreck Russ. than additive Russ.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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End of the game was perfect when he broke the press and that was the clinching play of the game, basically.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I swear that's happened 10 times where for 90 seconds, it's the worst 90 seconds you've ever seen in your life. It's like four plays in a row where you're like, oh my God. He had four turnovers and two missed layups in 16 minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And I guess this is how it's going to end. And then it flips. It's a borderline Strother game, but not really. There's some Murray in there. There's Jokic. There are some heroes. Russell Westbrook, not a hero.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Okay. See favored by game seven, the case for them in game seven, if we're going to play both sides, almost like how I would do for a football playoff game where I'm like, all right, If this team wins, here's how I think it goes. If this team wins, this is how it's going to go. If OKC wins, Shea will get his 31 to 33. Figure a solid to very good Jalen Williams game somewhere in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Chet's probably in the 1911 range. The key with game sevens, and you saw it last round, There's always a weird guy. There's a Grant Williams hitting six threes. There's Christian Brown in game seven who just catches fire from three. There's always a role player who has an awesome game. And OKC has a lot more candidates for this than Denver does.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I mean, we could pick, you could go Lou Dort, you could go Caruso here, you can say Kaysom Wallace is going to come in and hit five threes. It could be one of those dudes that are up by 18, defense kicks in, and they're just comfortably ahead. I think if Denver wins... It's the classic Jokic plays 44 minutes. They have the lead most of the game. They're up seven with, you know, nine minutes left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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They're rolling the ball in. He's just killing clock. And he does that thing. Yeah. He's literally the best ever at it of I'm going to kill. I'm just going to shave seconds off this clock even before the 20. I'm going to make this a 35 second possession with all the. I think Murray has to come through. I think Brown needs to hit threes. Westbrook needs to be additive, not subtractive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I'm not even going to say we need a Strother, Watson. I'm not expecting that. I don't think those guys show up. They need five guys, and I think Westbrook has to be one of them. What do you think?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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You're going Strothergate? Because yesterday was clearly the Luke Cornette game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I have no idea. If I was a coach, I'd play it though. I don't know if we're getting Jamal Yeah, I don't know. We'll see. Game time. And then Jabal's fine. Okay. He's not going to play. Yeah. I know you said Chet's not guarding Jokic, but I still feel like he's one of the two people guarding Jokic, even though he's not really guarding. You know what I mean?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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They're basically double. And Caruso is the other one. It's those three. And then there's the 10 Jalen Williams minutes. So I think Jalen Williams has outkicked his coverage in this series. It's been pretty solid. Yeah. Been a little feisty. One of the things with the game seven, you know, some guys just, they just shrink from the moment.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it usually happens with the younger teams or the role players, or like even, I know it wasn't a game six yesterday. It was a game or not a game seven. It was a game five, but the role players can go sideways. Like you have like the Strews goes over nine. Sure. Ty Jerome doesn't look like Ty Jerome anymore. It's funny. It's funny to hear some of the dialogue about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I thought Indiana was just clearly better. And it's like, well, Cleveland had all these injuries. It's like, I don't know. Did they like their role players fell apart? Were those guys hurt?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Ferris Garland was definitely a little hampered. So they should lose in five and get killed in a couple of the games and just roll over at home in a must-win game? That's because Garland's toe hurt? There was way deeper stuff going on with them. And I thought Indiana kind of broke them as the series went along. I think that has to be Denver's goal in Oklahoma City. It's a young team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Can you break them? Can you make them doubt themselves? Can you be super physical with them? And you have this just monolith at center who needs two guys to stop him at all times. And can he just elevate everybody? Not bad against them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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You know, when I went to that game for the Clippers series, which was just the best game I've seen in eight years and the Nuggets came out, it was clearly like a game seven for them. And they had all these things they want to do. And one of them was Gordon was just going to really, really attack Kawhi 94 feet and was really aggro physical.

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And Jokic was just a maniac yelling at the refs and everything. I think if they come out that way, I think they can win. I think if Gordon comes out, I'm taking Jalen Williams out of this game. I think I can get in his head. I think I can bang guys around. I think I can control the boards with Jokic. I think we can get the rebounding advantage. I think we can talk shit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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You get Murray talking shit. I don't know. Even though they were the champs two years ago instead of one year ago, I hate playing teams that have been in a lot of games like this. So this is it. If OKC gets through this, they win the title. Nobody's that. I just don't think anybody stops them if they win this game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Indiana versus OKC, if that ends up being the finals, it's a pretty good finals. I love Indiana. I really think they know who they are, and I think they're really hard to play, and I think they're not afraid of anybody. We'll see what happens with that. All right, audible quickly to... Celtics-Knicks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Tomorrow night. So, you know, I potted with Jacoby right after the game. And then I zoomed through the game this morning. And it was really interesting how different the Celtics were without Tatum.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, when you remove like all the points and the fact that he was the best rebounder on the team and he had the ball so much, how they kind of changed their style to play without him, which I think I realized when I was watching real time, but I didn't really catch until I watched it again. They just played with more pace and it was intentional. There was more cutting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And they did some stuff that I think is bad for the Knicks defensively. Because I don't think the Knicks, I don't think Towns wants to run back. I don't think he wants to worry about fast breaks. And I don't think people, they want to worry about back cutters and all the stuff the Celts were doing. The amazing thing though is I just didn't know Jalen Brown had that game in him.

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Like basically doing a Tatum impersonation, but a little bit better in some ways because he brought the ball up faster. I think the biggest fault I think everyone has with Tatum is he's very deliberate and he'll walk the ball up and he'll just decide what to do. And there'll be eight seconds left in the shot clock and he'll get in the offense. The Celtics yesterday were like, go, go, go. Let's go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Let's go. Let's go. That was one thing. And then the other thing was Porzingis was just so bad, which we talked about last night and And then you look at the stats for the series and he's played 82 minutes. He's five field goals. Yeah. He's like a minus 27 for 100 in his rating. And he's such luggage that I think just not playing him, I feel bad for him. He's like, Mazzola said he can't breathe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm president of select states. Game problem call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And even if they play Kata, who I think, I was talking to my dad about this today because my dad likes Kata. And Kata is, you can only play him against certain teams. But Mitchell Robinson is the type of center that you can play him against. He needs to be against big guys that are near the basket because that's what he's good at. He's got long arms and he can defend the rim.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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So I think if you replace the Porzingis minutes with Cornette and a little Kata, they're just better off from a math standpoint. And then if they keep playing with pace... you know, then you're putting at least some pressure on the Knicks, right? Because the real thing is the Knicks aren't playing well. They fall behind 14 in every game. I looked it up. Bridges has zero free throws in the series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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He's shooting 39%. OG hasn't done anything in four games. Towns has two threes the whole series, right? Brunson and Hart and Robinson are the guys playing the best for them, but the door's open. So if the Celts can play with pace and hang around, maybe? How do you see it? I appreciate you talking yourself into it. I'm not talking myself into it. I'm talking myself into the case for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Well, it's funny. Strother was basically the bizarro Westbrook. Westbrook in the first half felt like he swung the game. At one point I looked, he'd played, this is in the second half, he'd played seven minutes, he was minus 14 and it felt worse. Strother came in and it felt like he played seven minutes and he was like plus 84. But, so it all balanced out. But, this is the problem with Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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An awesome Drew Holiday second half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Like, the best he's looked in a while. Yeah, they had a lot of guys playing really well. For sure. But the Knicks have a lot of guys not playing well. And that's the case. It's like, hey, these guys are trying to give us the series. We keep taking 14-point-plus leads on them every game. Like, let's just kind of bang it home. Yeah, White's not going to go 7-13 again. Can they patch together?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Porzingis played 12 minutes. So, Cornette's going to get those 12 minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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If he gets in any foul trouble, tired, whatever, then you're looking at Horford. If Horford looks tired, then some Keita as a backup, I think, over Porzingis. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I don't think they can win the game unless Jalen plays close to where he was in Game 5.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I think that's the one necessity.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Did you think he had that in him? Because I did not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Well, and to rebound like they did in game five because that's the other way. The ways this goes wrong is the Knicks control the boards. One of the two guards gets in foul trouble. Bridges or Ananobi. Yes. Catch fire offensively at least a little bit. I don't know if Towns... The rumor is that his hands hurt and that's why he's not shooting threes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But Towns having two threes in five games in the series is just weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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You get past the top three and I have no idea who's showing up like game five. It was basically those three guys and that was it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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He was somebody that routinely would have two to four. makes in a playoff game and now he doesn't make anything so and there's a Deuce McBride coming in and

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Yeah. My dad said yesterday, my dad was there and he said the crowd was just awesome. And Jalen Brown said that after the game, he said he thought it was like one of the best crowds of the year. And it really meant a lot to them that instead of being like, oh, the season's over, Tatum's hurt, all these people showed out and were like, we're not losing. And they really fed off that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And that's what, when you have this series and the generations of fans that both teams have, you would think the same crowd would be there for the Knicks, but the stakes are a little different. The Celtics won the title last year. The Knicks haven't really had anything good happen to them since 1999. And, you know, this is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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This would be a catastrophic 3-1 loss to be up with the best player in the other team going out. Everybody's already sinking into the next round. All of a sudden, it falls apart in game five. Now in game six, you're down to eight. The energy of the crowd will be really interesting. I think the crowd will be great, but it's also insane. It's going to get super nervous if this is actually a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And Brown has been, I think really good in the playoffs has been a little shakier offensive with this series, but, um, You just don't know what you're getting. So Strother, do I trust he's going to do that in OKC in game seven? I don't. But weirdly, OKC has the same issue where they're dying for somebody to have a little three minute run, right? They don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The counter is the last six halves we've played. The Knicks have played one good half. Game four, second half, they were incredible. I mean, that's in the running for best half anyone's played in the playoffs. I think they were 30 for 45 shooting. They were just lights out, flame shooting out of their ass. They were awesome. So they have it in them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, they're pretty good. But it's, you know, when Josh Hart's making threes, it's like, okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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It's just like, come on. I was happy every time he took the three. I never thought they were going in. But I thought game four, they were just getting every shot they wanted. The ball was moving and the crowd was like just electric. People forget because Tatum got hurt, but they were about to go down nine in that game. They lost that game when Tatum was incredible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Tatum was on his way to a 50-point game and they were going to lose anyway. So... Do the Knicks have that again in them? My guess would be between game six and game seven, they're probably going to have, they probably have one good game left in them. Do I think Jalen Brown can do that two more times? That seems more far-fetched.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can I make the case? I would assume you would. I don't know if I see it either, but here's the case. And I've followed him for nine years. And I really do think he cares about all this stuff and cares about his place in the hierarchy and really is one of those, I'm not appreciated enough. People don't realize how good I am. He won the awards last year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And even then, it was like he didn't make the Olympic team. Mm-hmm. Kawhi got sent home. They called in Derek White. There's always a lack of respect thing with him, which I think is somewhat genuine. It's Tatum's team. Tatum gets introduced last. Tatum gets hurt. Season's over. And I think the guy that I saw in game five was like... Tatum and Brown love each other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was Isaiah Joe for a while, but it feels like he's kind of gotten nudged out. And, you know, weirdly, sometimes it can be Caruso just kind of as a two way guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It has nothing to do with the injury. It's just like... this is my team too. I'm going to fucking protect our house. I really felt that in that game. Can you keep it going for two more days? I have two more games. I don't know, but you know, we do the ringer 100. He's always in the top 25. It's not like he's chopped liver. Like he's a really good player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's an all-star and he's somebody that is capable of having games like he had in game five. I've never seen him be that patient. be that good with the ball. Like he only had two turnovers. He actually could dribble the whole game, which was uncharacteristic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Uh, he really led the offense and it was like a side that I just, you see it sometimes when they'll rest Tatum and it's like, Oh, Jalen Brown gets his own game and he gets to like run the offense. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But you know, if you're talking about guys who have the most to gain in the playoffs, the rest of the way, if he could somehow bring the Celtics back and beat the Knicks, like this would be, people would think of them in a totally different way. I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But they're not getting that wild card. So, so much is on SGA and Jalen Williams. And then Jalen Williams stunk tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I've been in some dark places, Rob.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I said that to Jacoby last night and I really meant it. He was so good in that game yesterday that I think it reminded people because the instinct when Tatum goes out and you think next year is done and just like, all right, maybe it's time to trade Jalen Brown and break it up and, you know, try to do the quick rebuild for a year and then Tatum comes back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then you watch him in a game like that last night and it's like, I don't want to trade that guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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This is... You know, one of the best 20 to 25 players in the league and he's in his prime. What are we trading him for? Three quarters in the dollar? Why would we do that? Then the other thing, and this is what I mean by dark places, researching Achilles surgery and all the different times. And if you do it in the morning, it might add three months. Really?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Might shave three months off your recovery, which is what they did. They did the surgery in the morning.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Cause the whole, I guess the whole mindset and I think this is, somebody did this, maybe it was Kobe, but they found out about it. Um, it's before the swelling kicks in. If you do it as close as possible to when the injury happens, it saves three months of rehab. So they went, they sprung the next day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, I think there's a lot of conditional factors here we're ignoring. I don't know what to tell you, Rob. They didn't have to get on a plane. It's bad to fly before the surgery. It's bad to go up and down. That makes sense. And the longer between the injury and when you have the surgery, there's less blood in your leg and then it gets swells up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So anyway, they did it in the morning and they felt really good about it. And now they're thinking like, shit, maybe he can be back in February. This could be a nine month injury.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But I think the difference with him and like Kobe Bryant and Aaron Rodgers and some of these other people is he's 27 years old. He's in the prime of his career. He's going to heal faster. And they really do feel like they did everything. They got the best possible doctor. They did the surgery within 12 hours of the injury. And they feel like it went as well as it possibly could have gone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So who knows? So if you're thinking like, and this guy's also a maniac, like he will, you know, they're going to have to like stop him from going too far and going too hard and trying to rehab too hard. So anyway, if you feel like, hey, can we hang around in the East, which is going to suck? And could he be 90% of what he was in April? And, you know, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think that's too much to put on him. I think you're right. But where I was yesterday versus where I was today, at least I'm like, hey, maybe he'll be back in April. Yesterday, I was like, my whole decade's over. What are we going to do? We're getting rid of everybody. So I don't know. It's still as bleak as it could possibly be, but it's not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, when I hear nine months versus 18 months, I'm like, okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Yesterday was hard. Yesterday was a harsh day because there was no information. Yeah. And then it's like, is this worse? Is it like torn ankle ligaments and an Achilles? It was just not great. Before we go, do you feel better, worse, or the same about the Minnesota Timberwolves?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I feel slightly better because of Randall's now put together a little resume here. It's tremendous. What's crazy is like during the Lakers series, I went to a couple of those games. And he was doing really well in the Lakers series. And it's like, ah, well, it makes sense. You know, LeBron, LeBron's 40. They don't really have a backup. Like he was kind of attacking. Sometimes it was smaller guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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His team was a good matchup for him. Yeah. And then you watch Golden State. You know, Draymond was guarding him.

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I don't know if I've seen somebody that comfortable against Draymond.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then they're throwing Kaminga at him, but he just had his way. So then you start thinking, okay, so what's the bad matchup for him? Because it seems like he's bully balling basically everybody who is from 6'9 and under. So then I start thinking about them against OKC. I guess they would go double bigs, maybe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Maybe they'd throw Hartenstein on him.

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That's probably the best for him, yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the other thing that's happened, there was always a weird, ah, should Nas Reid be getting these minutes over him? And what's their best lineup? And then that kind of shook out organically, I think, over the last month. And now Nas Reid is a bench player again. And Randall and Gobert, and the fact that they can keep Gobert on the court, we'll see if they're able to do that against OKC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But, I don't know, they're really good. And I'll say one thing with Edwards. Yeah. He will feel like he's the best player in an OKC series, even if Shea is the MVP of that series. So, you know, I do wonder, are they one of those teams that just kind of ebbs and flows with the opponent? So it's like, oh, we're going to be Golden State. You know, they lose game one, which and they stunk. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That was the number one thing we were worried about with OKC in the playoffs. Yep. Is your second guy ready yet? You know, and you go through the history of the league and the second guy has to be a little more consistent than he's been. But there's so many ways to go here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Drew Butler... Butler stock drop for you? A little bit. Game three was his game and they couldn't steal it. And that felt like he threw all his eggs into that basket and then he was a no-show in the last two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the good news for them, Kameka now has sign and trade potential. It's the one winner of the playoffs for them. They now know they can trade him for something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like yesterday, he had 23 points in 29 minutes. Put him on some of those teams in the East and just kind of let him loose. I don't know. I would take a chance. If you're a GM of like, let's say you're the Pistons GM. You're like, we don't have a, you know, we're probably not going to get a massive free agent, but could we get one more scoring forward?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Or like you're Charlotte or you're the wizards. Like, you know, the East, I mean, this is a whole other story though. What's going on. If Giannis gets traded to the West, this is another thing with Tatum. Like can Tatum come back in April? The East is going to be awful. It's going to be like Indiana and New York. That's it. It's going to be nobody else. Maybe Orlando, maybe Detroit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do you think less at OKC because it's taken seven games to beat this pretty flawed Denver team that's built around one transcendent, one of the great playoff players of all time at this point? Or... So that's door A. Door B, these are the two best teams in the league. And if OKC gets through this, we're smooth sailing after this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The case against him. And I think that's a strong case is he put up stats and they got their asses kicked in those games. And it's like, all right, he was out there a lot and they were losing by 10 to 15 every game. Yeah. Maybe that's something. All right. So your pick for OKC Denver is OKC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm going to make a rare semi cop out, but not totally prediction. Are you allowed to do that? OKC either wins by 15. OK. Or Denver wins. That's two different predictions. but I think it's one or the other. I don't think it's like a close game that, okay, I think OKC either comfortably wins, and I think if it's close, I think Debra wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm really going to miss Jokic. My daughter was asking because I was rooting for Denver and she's like, what'd you bet on Denver? And I was like, I didn't bet on this series. I don't need to bet on Jokic. You bet your heart. It's just my heart. He has the Nuggets have my heart. I don't need to have money on them. I just want them to win. I like watching them. I don't want them to go away yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I like watching him unlock this fucking hornet's nest defense of multiple bigs throwing at him and these little gnats coming behind him and him just trying to navigate it and figure out what to do. I'm going to miss it. All right, Rob Mahoney, when's your next podcast?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Wow, we might have to spend time with our loved ones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

3672.978

What's your number one TV show right now?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

3682.568

There you go. All right, Rob Mahoney, great to see you. Thanks to everybody who hung out with us on the YouTube stream. And thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. And I will see you on Sunday with Rossella. We're going live after the OKC game. Thank you, Rob. Thank you, everybody. Thanks, Bill.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

43.976

Coming up, Nuggets, Thunder headed to a game seven. I'm talking about the Rob Mahoney along with a lot more basketball next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Have a do rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Just an awesome, awesome movie. See the whole weekend. Watch. We got no basketball on Saturday. We had a OKC in Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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That's what makes OKC one of the many things that makes them so weird as a great team. Normally teams have runs and it's with threes, especially in the modern NBA. It's like, oh my God, 12-0 run, four threes. And OKC, it's all defense related. Four steals in a row for OKC. They've all turnovers and transition points. And that's kind of how they come back in games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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with their defense, I'm still not positive they know who their five guys should be on the stretch, and I'm also not sure it matters. But you think like game five, I mean, think about it this way. If Dort doesn't get hot for three minutes in game five, and if Jalen Williams doesn't make that shot on the left side that I still can't believe went in, Those two events, Denver wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And now we have this game six where I think we probably get the same result.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

499.844

Now we're going back for game seven. And it's, this is like the kind of series that I grew up with and you grew up with too. Like this is a classic 1980s. We go back and forth. We go back and forth. Okay, here we go. Game seven. Right. This is like CBS 1987. Right. Denver came back in game six and we're just doing it. We're playing all the hits. And then OKC, they got it out. They advance.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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We talk about what an important series this was for their growth. They had to get over the hump. So it's all the makings of that. And yet. Jokic is so great. I just I just don't want to play him if it's one game. They have two days rest until Sunday. And he's probably going to play, what, 43 minutes, 44 minutes?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They did it today. Legler, who I thought was fantastic today. I really think he's the best TV analyst we have at this point. And he was talking about even to get him an extra minute and a half in the fourth quarter was so huge. Like, think how stupid that is. It's like, oh, we're able to not bring him back in until the eight minute mark instead of the 930 mark.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But that's like how important he's become now, where you feel like if you can get to eight minutes in the fourth quarter, it's like a fucking miracle. Yeah. But that's who he is. And that's where that Nuggets team is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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638.024

Well, they had the SJ gets the fourth foul right near the end of the first half. It's a terrible foul. Really? Like really, really. Even Carl Anthony Towns was like, wow. Wow. I can't believe that. So they play him the first five minutes of the third quarter. And then he pulls him because he knows, I just want to get, I'm glad I got that five minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But then he doesn't play the last seven minutes of the third quarter. And you really felt it. on OKC. That's where it's like nobody they have is really ready to run an offense in a game like that was that important for Denver for seven minutes. And if you're talking about like whatever happens to them this season, I still think they're going to win the title.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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It's headed to a game seven Celtics Knicks on Friday night. And then if that's a game seven, that's going to be in Boston on Monday. So no Saturday game. for us. I guess we're just going to have to watch movies. You can watch Close Encounters. I talked to Rob Mahoney. We did it live on YouTube and we had a great time talking about, can Jokic keep this going? Can OKC hold on?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But if they don't, probably the thing they're going to look at is who can come off the bench and be somebody who can actually create a little offense. Almost like Isaiah Joe as a lead guard type of person.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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I don't even know who that is. But like what the Celtics have with Peyton Pritchard, where he can come in and be like, oh, he might take some shots and he'll dribble and he'll push the pace and he's a change of pace. They don't really have anybody like that. So it all falls on Jalen Williams. And when he's bad, then what do you do?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And it doesn't matter when you're up 20 and you're up 15, which is where they've been the whole season. I didn't look at what the line is, but odds are they're going to be like 8, 9, 10-point favorites somewhere in there. And yet, Jokic. The Jokic stuff... So I was looking at his this year, last year, and 23, the title year. So now it was 45 playoff games for him. Pretty big sample size.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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45 playoff games, 29 points a game, 13 rebounds a game, nine assists a game. This is for 45 playoff games. What does he have today? 29, 14, and eight. Right on the money. So it's like, whoa, Jokic had a good game. It's like, nah, it's typical Jokic playoff game at this point. Made his free throws down the stretch, which was something that was getting a little shaky there for a couple games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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In general, it just feels like they played a ton. It feels like they played twice as many playoff games as everyone else in the NBA. Every single game feels like it has this extra weight to them and it's do or die and it's down the stretch and Jokic seems exhausted and nothing has been easy. That Clippers series was a nightmare until game seven.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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And then this series, I'm sure they're kicking themselves about game five. If they go home for the summer, game five is the one where they're just going to be like, really, Lou Dort?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Lots of great basketball storylines. Rob threw some water on me with the Celtics game six. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're live on YouTube. Bill Simmons here with Rob Mahoney. The Studio, episode nine. So I really liked what they... Oh, wait, what podcast is this? Talking basketball. We get a seventh game. We get one more Jokic game.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Yeah, especially when OKC is just giving them corner threes like they're free candy in a drugstore. Yeah. Like take one. No, take another one. You want to drive toward the basket this time? Go ahead. We'll give you that too. They're just packing. Everything. And that's why the Yoka just assists totals. I mean, I think he finished with eight today.

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Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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A couple of those, like that last one he had to Brown was like the thread the needle out of nowhere Larry Bird type pass. But, you know, they don't want him to finish with 12, 13, 14 assists. I still feel like he could score even more. There was a couple of times when he would get the ball at the foul line and he would turn and then he would just kick it out. And it's like, just take Hardenstein.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Denver Survives! Suddenly Dramatic Playoff Weekend Alert With Rob Mahoney

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Like, you know, you can get that little... lob jump hook on him at any time. Has this series, I know it's a regular season award. Did you vote for Jokic or SGA? I forget.

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Right. Did this series make you regret anything or feel stronger about your vote? I mean, I know it's playoffs is different than regular season, but to me, it's like, I felt like it really made the cases for both guys, especially game five, but I feel better about the Jokic vote. I just, I think he's the best player in 13 years.

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Disclosure, an absolutely bizarre movie from the 1990s with Michael Douglas and Demi Moore. Did that with Van and Big Wise. Go check that out. You can watch that on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. We're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook.com.

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Like four o'clock games, you're usually stuck with like whatever the 7 p.m. Eastern. So I've actually watched some Detroit and I've watched some Charlotte. And I like what Detroit has going. They don't have Monte Williams as a coach, which is the number one thing. But Cade's 24 points a game, seven rebounds, nine assists.

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He has hit every sort of ceiling you would have thought he was going to hit at this point. Shoot almost 40% from three. He's just really good. He's somebody that you could build a team around. Beasley and Harris were two pretty smart free agent signings. They're averaging 30 a game and shooting 40% from three. Jaden Ivey's been good. They have rebounding. And I wonder, if I'm them... fuck it.

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Do I do a trade? Do I try to get, you know, Brandon Ingram's on a discount, Zach Levine's on a discount, CJ McCollum's on a discount. Do I think about Jimmy Butler? Uh, they're, they don't have to worry about any of this apron stuff. This could be another Cam Johnson team. This is actually kind of a perfect Cam Johnson team. Um,

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I wonder if Detroit is going to look at what happened with Orlando and OKC the last couple of years and what's happening with Houston this year and think like, hmm, I wonder if we make one move here, could our ceiling increase? Especially if Miami goes backwards, Indiana's already gone backwards. Could we be a top 16 potentially? So I'm watching them.

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The other team is obviously San Antonio, who's 12 and 12, which is surprising because I haven't really enjoyed watching them. Sohan, Castle, and Johnson shoot 27% for three combined. Chris Paul, better season than we expected, but he's old and who knows with him. But the foundation I like. They have Wemby and Castle and Harrison Barnes and Pauls. They have some good bets.

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They have a couple heat check dudes. And they have a lot of picks. They have a shitload of picks. And I wonder, is that a Cam Johnson team? Probably not a Jimmy Butler team, but could it be like a CJ McCollum team? I'm watching them to see... Are they just going to be happy to be a 500 team again? I don't know why they would be because they're going to be too good to tank.

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I talked to Seth Wickersham from ESPN, who's been on here a few times to talk about NFL shenanigans and Bill Belichick craft stuff. So Belichick went to North Carolina. We had to deep dive that and we did it for almost an hour. It was really fun. And then last but not least, Million dollar picks are just hot. I don't know.

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They're not going to be in the top five or top six. So maybe think about going for it, which leads me to the sixth and last thing for the six pack Atlanta, a team that I really liked before the season. You probably remember from the over under pot house and I went all in on their over a team that I mentioned last week. when House and I, after Million Dollar Picks, we talked about NBA Futures.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I doubled down when I was in Denver last week on FanDuel with the Atlanta over-runner stuff because it was 38 and a half. Right now, they're 14-12. They upset the Knicks last night, and it wasn't even really an upset. I thought they kind of dominated them in the second half, and I really do wonder if that was a playoff series.

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I would be super scared if I was the Knicks because they don't really have a way to control the Trae Young dribble slash dribble penetration, whatever we're calling it these days. Their wings kind of match up against the Knicks' wings, the Atlanta wings. They have rebounding. I think that's a dangerous matchup for them. They're third in pace, which I like.

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And I wonder if Atlanta has a real chance to become this year's pacers. The key for them, two things. One is the three-point shooting. Daniels is only at 31%. Reese's Shea is 28%. Trey's 31%, which is bad. Hunter has been overachieving. He's 45%. But can those swings start hitting more threes? Then secondly, what are we getting from Trey? I think this is it.

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I think we've hit the let's figure this out once and for all moment with Trey, almost like a political candidate for an election. He's been dining off that conference finals thing for a few years now, which I think we all know happened because Embiid was super banged up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There were a couple of fluky games and Ben Simmons basically had a basketball mental breakdown and just completely lost it for whatever reason. Trey this year, 21 and 12, 12 assists a game solid. 38% shooting, 31% from three, which doesn't stop him from launching the 29 footers. Free throws are down to six a game. They used to be at nine. Turnovers highest they've ever been, 4.6.

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And with all of that said, this is the perfect team for him. He's got swings everywhere. He's got a bunch of guys to protect him on defense. Daniels, whoever the other team's point guard is, you saw it with the Knicks game with Brunson. Daniels can guard every team's point guard, small guard, whoever it is. Mitchell, Garland, name a guy. You can put Daniels on him. They're playing the Bucs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He can guard Dame Lillard. He can guard anybody in the league who's under 6'8". And Jalen Johnson... You know, if you're ranking the swings, Jalen Johnson, Daniels, OJ Ananobi, and Bridges, I think I would take Jalen Johnson over the other three guys. And Daniels is going to be a first team all NBA defense guy. So perfect spot for Trey. He's got rebounding. He's got shot blocking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I was trying to think of another word that would sound less braggy, but hot is the word. Million dollar picks are hot. Joe House is going to be on at the end. We're going to try to keep it going. We're at almost $2 million profit of fake money, and we're going to see if we can bump it over there. But we've been on a good streak, and I really like the slate this week. So that is the podcast.

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He's got lob guys. He's got tall interchangeable shooters all over the place. And I don't, I was thinking like, what would the trade be? Should maybe they go get Cam Johnson? It's like, I'm not even sure they need to do trade, especially now that Bogdanovich is back and they have some six man scoring stuff. It really comes down to Trey Young. How good is he? Because-

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He is in the perfect race car for him right now. And maybe over the course of these next 20, 25 games, he's going to start figuring it out. He's a guy that you saw in the next game in MSG. The bigger the stage, the more he seems to like it, whether he's missing 29 footers or not. He's one of the, him and LaMelo are the two irrational confidence superstars that we have right now.

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And if we're ever going to find out that Trae Young can be a real piece on a team that wins 50 games and actually competes in a real way, it should start happening right around now. Maybe we'll see it. Maybe we'll see it on Saturday against Milwaukee in the NBA Cup. Anyway, that was today's six major things. Remember, Michelob Ultra Courtside gets you closer to the game than ever before.

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Visit MichelobUltra.com slash courtside for free entry. Entry deadlines and official rules. Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. We will be back with Sec Worker Sham talking Belichick right after this. Hey, sometimes in basketball, 30 points could be worth more than 30 points.

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Right now, you can get a 30% profit boost from The Ringer with FanDuel's 30 on 30 during Friday's NBA action. We did this during the NBA Cup games. It was successful. We did it last week. It was successful. I've been tweeting out my picks on Friday. I've been doing really well. You can go back and check the receipts.

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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The Ringer, teaming up with America's number one sportsbook to give you a 30% profit boost. We either pick a player to score more than 30 points or bet on the new exclusive 30 on 30 special markets like any game. Go nuts. You could have both teams score 30 plus points in the first quarter. That could be the bet. Fandle hooked us up. I love this.

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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We're getting up early today before the Rams-Niners game as well. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're going to kick things off with a special part of today's episode. It is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer sponsor of the NBA, my favorite league. The NBA Cup, not only is it underway, the semifinals are this weekend in Vegas.

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Seth Wickersham is here from ESPN. He's popped on here a few times to talk about big picture NFL shenanigans at the coach owner scale and other stuff. And the Patriots and Belichick, shockingly to a lot of people, goes back to college. You wrote about it for ESPN today. I don't really even know where to begin, but I guess I'll start here.

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People see this story, however they feel about Belichick is my takeaway. And I'm just judging it from the people in my life who are emailing about it. The people who love Belichick think he's a great coach. Like, I can't believe there was another NFL job for him. The people who are done with his style of doing thought he was a little overrated or all like, see, nobody in the NFL wanted him.

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And the truth is the story really hits both sides of that spectrum, right?

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All right. So there's two major things to unpack there. One is, how do I even know if I'll get a job in January? And then the other piece is, how do I know I want the job? So let's talk about the league dynamics, because I think that's such a big part of this.

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He had such a bad experience with the Crafts the last five to seven years, really starting with the stuff you were writing about in the mid-2010s that I think, and I was one of them, a lot of the Patriot fans who had gone through Deflategate and Spygate, and then people were starting to write about the dissension between Craft and Belichick and Brady, and all of us were like, fuck you, there's no dissension, we're fine.

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But then as the years pass, clearly there was. But I think the crafts thing got so dysfunctional the last five years.

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And if you didn't believe it, you just had to watch the Apple doc, which was one of the most insane pieces of sports content anyone's ever released, where it was just an absolute hatchet job that tried to erase Belichick, especially from the first three Super Bowls, where I don't care where you stand on the Belichick versus Brady thing.

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Belichick was a bigger reason they won the first three Super Bowls. It's a fact. The way he put the roster together, the defense he had, the game planning. And it was almost like they knew that, so they had to steer it toward everything that happened after that. And part of me wonders, was he just so disenchanted

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with his experience with the crafts, that as he looked around the available jobs and you see father-son duo, incompetent franchise, father-son duo, and he's just looking around going, that looks awful. I was already in that situation. Maybe I could have control over my own situation. So just the NFL infrastructure, which you've written about a lot, is it more dysfunctional than we even know about?

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Because there's maybe seven franchises that are run smoothly and correctly, and then... two thirds of the league at least are kind of a disaster.

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Well, and he was also telling everyone in NFL circles, like, yeah, I fired him.

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And they leaked it, too, to make them look bad, which I thought was really interesting.

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Well, true, you're right.

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But you were reporting it. You're finding out that they weren't in the top three. So they're telling somebody.

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Michelob Ultra Courtside, ready to get fans closer to the action. Sign up for Michelob Ultra for a chance to win courtside seats, a trip to the Paris Global Game. That sounds fun. A trip to All-Star Weekend and other prizes. Check out MichelobUltra.com slash courtside for your chance to get closer to the game. than ever before. I'm going to open a six pack. Six things I've noticed.

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Wait, can you explain that? Because that's such a crucial piece of this. So like five years ago, there's texting, there's, hey, what's going on over there? And you're just back channeling constantly. And the Flores thing just completely ended that?

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Well, and he has a little bit of a father legacy with them. It's a great place to live. It's a place that seems like they were willing to give him the car keys. I want to go through those NFL jobs, though, because it's such a crucial piece of this. Because there's going to be a narrative like, ah, the league rejected him. And, you know, even your piece tapped into that.

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Did Belichick reject the league first or did they already reject him? But if you go through the jobs, Las Vegas... Assuming that becomes open after the year. I mean, they have two wins, but I'm just guessing. Well, Mark Davis fired McDaniels. He's a legacy kid. That's a franchise that's never, I would say, been stable the last decade. So he's not going there. Jacksonville.

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Well, and also they don't have a quarterback. There's so many variables to cross them up. Jacksonville is the team I thought made the most sense. But what do they have? They have the father-son duo who's been pretty incompetent over the last 10 years. Like he just dealt with that with the crafts. Now he's getting the more incompetent version of the crafts.

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Trevor Lawrence, you'd have to really talk yourself into. And it would have to be a situation where they just gave him everything, but they've already proven they don't really work that way. The sun runs the analytics department. And it just seems like that wasn't a match. So cross them off. New Orleans, no quarterback. The Benson family, they're a mess. He's not going there. They're in cap hell.

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You can't succeed there. That makes no sense. Cross them up. The Jets, no quarterback and he can't stand Woody Johnson. Took shots at him constantly all the way during the season in all his media places. So cross them off. The Giants were interesting because I thought that was another possibility. But it's pretty clear that he really likes Dayball.

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And even in some of the reporting was like telling them like, you guys need a better front office, but you have a good coach. He just didn't want to shank day ball. So that's out. Plus they don't have a QB. Dallas. We won't know until January, right? That's another father son duo, by the way, but won't know until January.

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And he didn't want, he couldn't wait that long because this North Carolina job was either going to be there or not. So let that one go. And then the only other one I can think of, before the one that you talked about in your piece. Cincinnati, if this ended badly, they didn't make the playoffs, and they fire Zach Taylor, who has not covered himself in glory this year.

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Six things I want to talk about. We hit a little bit with Jacoby and Goldsberry on Tuesday night's podcast. Specifically, we talked about Jimmy Butler and Golden State and how from a Golden State standpoint, you saw it last night too. I think they have a two to three year window here with Curry and Draymond to compete for a title.

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That's a really good job, because you have Borough, Ohio. But again, you can't wait till January. So the only one that really might have made sense was Chicago. And in your reporting... They seemed receptive to that one, right? But Chicago's just, they want one of those offensive whiz kid play callers. Everybody has Ben Johnson linked to them already. So it just didn't seem like a fit.

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And that was the one team that seems like they've rejected him, kind of.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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where I got to say I've been costing them money lately and I'm not ashamed to brag about it. We've been doing these 30 on 30s during the NBA Cup rounds on Fridays and then we carried it over to last week on Friday and basically it's a profit boost token. You can boost any 30 point score, 30 plus. All they have to do is get to 30, anything higher. On a 30 on 30 special bet on this Friday's slate,

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So were you devouring some of the Belichick media stuff? Because you know him so well and you know the little breadcrumbs he was dropping one way or the other. Was that like a sport for you?

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And especially like his disdain for certain things was really funny. Like sloppy special teams, just like really, really cut into the,

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Whether they're going to win a title remains to be seen, but they need... One more offensive player, somebody who can take the burden. You saw in the game last night, they're up six with two and a half minutes left and just some of the worst possessions you could possibly have. They become very easy to stop at the end of the game.

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Right. Yeah, like Belichick, if there was a punt near the end zone and the guy screwed it up and fell into the end zone. It was like Belichick was being electroshocked on the sidelines. It was the worst thing that could happen to him is somebody screwing up a basic play.

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Yeah, he seemed like he had an ax to grind against Atlanta. The Jets, he couldn't take Willie Johnson shots enough. There are a couple others, but... You know, I'm torn on this because... I really thought him trying to be the coach GM everything the last couple years just wasn't sustainable anymore, and he wasn't good at it. The free agent draft stuff the last five years, he was just bad.

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And you could see the results in the roster. He just didn't do a very good job. And that combined with, I think he had a lot of trouble replenishing assistants. Once guys got plucked left and right, that becomes really hard to just keep replenishing these guys that you kind of taught your whole system to. You get older, you don't have the same kind of motor.

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So, you know, the way he did it in the 2000s, no chance he was going to be able to do that again. But I still feel like he was a pretty good, a pretty like top player. maybe not top seven coach, but in the top 10. What was interesting about last year, the team got sloppy in ways that were really uncharacteristic for Belichick. And I do think people around the league probably noticed that.

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This wasn't like the same buttoned up overachieving thing. Now their defense overachieved and finished like I think sixth in DVOA. Some of that had to do with the schedule. Some of that had to do with when you're playing a shit team. You're not necessarily throwing the kitchen sink at them. You're just trying to get through the game.

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Some of it was smoke and mirrors, but at the same time, the team did overachieve. They were awful offensively. They couldn't have been worse. And the reason I bring this up is the irony of all of this is the best job for him, I think, would have been the Patriots for 2025 with some pieces desperately needed, like a stable hand, and they have an awesome quarterback.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right, which is the thing he didn't have for six years. And the funniest thing about all of this is that was the perfect job for him, but it never would have happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Although Ben and J-Lo happened, so maybe no chance is too strong. There have been reunions that have been shut. The Eagles got back together, but that one would have been an all-time shocker, I think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Jimmy Butler is somebody that makes sense for them and kind of fits in him, Draymond, and some role players. You can kind of see it. It's not nothing. So he makes $48.8 million this year. He has a player option. The player option is key because everybody thinks that he's either going to opt out at the end of the year and become a free agent.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The roast was the best. He just had complete disdain. He couldn't hide it. Couldn't hide it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, because you look like Sean Payton, they give him the car keys in Denver, turns it around. Now he's younger than Belichick. Harbaugh with the Chargers this year, same thing. Like, there's probably seven, eight guys that could do that. But in those cases, those guys are also... running a lot of the front office thinking. And I think Belichick, with his last five years, probably lost that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The perfect job would have been, hey, we have a good team. We ran our course with our coach. Can you just come in? That's why Philly became super interesting in September. for a couple weeks there when it looked like Sirianni was going to go badly. And that was like, whoever's taking that one, that's like a hired gun job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Could he just come in, hired gun, hey, just try to win as many games as possible and compete for titles. But then Philly turned it around. They won nine to ten games. So it makes sense to me that he did this because... I do think he just wants to coach and, and maybe he started to realize the NFL isn't for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Now, on the other hand, could he do this for two years and then realize, Oh, that job's open. And all of a sudden he's hopping back. Do you think the Shula records important to him? Because I've heard different, different takes on this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Or he'll want to do an extension of Miami, which Miami Clear doesn't want to do because they've had a year and a half to do it. Okay, so we talked about some of the apron stuff on Tuesday and how hard it is to make trades in the NBA right now. And I was saying how, on the one hand, I kind of like it because it's a little more like the NFL. Guys are kind of stuck in their situations.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So the things working against him, the crafts poison the well. GM performance last five to six years was just bad. Unknown curmudgeon, which he tried his hardest over this with the eight jobs he had to really try to prove that he wasn't. And I'm in the camp that he's probably more entertaining than a curmudgeon. But I think if.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If if he's working for you and you're just a rich guy who wants answers, he's going to be a curmudgeon. Brings a lot of like. People that come with him. some would say they're cast offs. Some would say there are people that if it was for Belichick would not be working in the league anymore, but he has a lot of those people. Right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the irony of it is, um, this is the same kind of thing he probably despises with owners. Like, why do I have to deal with your family? Why do I have to deal with your, you know, now your son's telling me what to do, but this North Carolina situation is going to, he's gonna be in, he's gonna bring a lot of his family with him, including actual family members.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But it seems like, to me, that was probably a huge piece of this for him, just working with people that he trusts and likes, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You can't just decide you're unhappy in a month and be, I want to go somewhere else. You look at Brandon Ingram, you look at Zach Levine. These are guys that are actually, well, Ingram just got hurt, but guys that were playing pretty well in situations that they weren't happy with because they didn't really have any other choice. And that could be how it plays out with Jimmy Butler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Well, this NBA has the same problem. Most, if you have between those two, there's 62 franchises, NBA, NFL. Probably three-fourths of them are terrible at hiring coaches. And the NBA coaches just change all the time. The NFL coaches change all the time. We see situations like last year where Iberflues clearly you know, that was going to be risky to bring him back with a new QB.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That could have gone either way. Salah looked like he'd already run his course with the Jets. They talked themselves into bringing him back. But a lot of the times you can kind of see it just from not being attached, just from watching your TV, being like, eh, that guy seems like a man. Like Brandon Staley last year. It's like, there's no way. There's no path out of this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I'm sure Belichick watches that, too, and it's like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, really?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, but Seth, you know how this works. The rich guys just call each other and then... you know, they weirdly look out for each other, even though they're all competing against each other in this league. And there's no way that Arthur Blank didn't call Kraft to ask for his take on Belichick. I just refuse to believe he didn't. And there's no way Kraft didn't give him a bad review.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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On the other hand, we've already seen that he can get a little frisky if he's not happy. I think Miami's feeling that pressure too. And if you're Miami, where are you going? You're light years away from the Boston OKC Cleveland group. You're not even really a second tier contender. You're probably a second and a half tier contender. And maybe you could use Butler's contract.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So then if you're Blank, yeah, you have this, if you're Blank, you have a franchise that's worth $7 billion. And you're trying to think, do I want to give the car keys to the $7 billion franchise to this guy? And his last employer is just absolutely like smashing him. You're going to hesitate, and you're going to go to the yes man, because this is the other thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Lombardi and I talked about this when he was on, I think in August, September. You have a lot of people in these organizations, and I've dealt with this professionally too, job protection people, that their job is just to keep their own job, and they're always going to push blame on other people and undermine other people because that's how they're going to keep their seat.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That happens in so many of these football. We just saw it happen with the Falcons. The Cousins Penix thing is... probably a disaster, right? Are there going to be repercussions for it? They're just going to blame other people. Well, Cousins, he didn't tell us he was healthy. They'll figure out how to blame and keep going. Rob Palenka is the master of this with the Lakers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They fire a coach every year. They've traded all their picks. They've done everything, but somehow everybody else gets blamed for it. So I just think that's such a big part of sports now, and I don't think the common person who just roots for football sees it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right, which is his Hall of Fame case, by the way. It's like he not only hired Belichick, he traded a first-round pick. He was that convinced in the guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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well, I don't think it's a mid-level program anymore with the kind of money they're probably spending. I think that for North Carolina, you always have to look like, why would somebody do, why would somebody spend, I don't know how much, it's 30 for three, I saw 50 for five, whatever it is, plus all the other people in Belichick's life, plus the commitment to NIL, it's probably like a,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know, $40 to $50 million commitment per year. But when was the last time anyone talked about North Carolina football? We just got Drake May from them. And all I read about leading up to Drake May is we have no idea how good he is because his team was such dog shit in this last year, right? So that's who you're getting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You could put Rozier with it. You could try to create a new world for yourself where you're basically just paying Hero and Bam and Duncan Robinson's last year, next year, and some other things. And you're under 110 million heading into free agency this summer with a lot of options. You might just want to blow it up and redo it. The problem is this apron stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So this writer named Ali Conley, who I think does a good job, and he was on some of the reporting on this, but he wrote a piece today about... about when Bill Walsh went back to Stanford and how badly it went. And it went badly for a bunch of different reasons. College football was totally different back then. Walsh maybe didn't have the stamina or the motor that he thought he did.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He tried to bring an NFL mindset and it just went badly. There was a book written about it. And, you know, I've been really like Stuart Mandela, the athletic wrote a piece like this is going to be a disaster. Like he was just like, mark my words, come back here in two years. This is going to be a disaster.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't know whether I'm just like a Belichick junkie at this point or a Belichick apologist. I don't know. I watched him do so many great things. I just really find it hard to believe he's going to go to college and not be good. And yet the track record says that he won't be good. So where do you stand?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There was one thing that I read in some of the stuff that's been written about this already is, um, with this college job, what he wants to do at North Carolina, I thought was fascinating, where he basically wants to turn it into this football factory that trains people to go to the NFL. So this is something Cal Perry tried to do at Kentucky, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This was a big part of their mindset of like, college sports is changing. The one and done era is coming. We are going to be this factory that sends people into the lottery, top five pick, whatever you want to be. We're going to train you to do that. And if you look at the success of the Kentucky guys that came in the NBA, there's other reasons for that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And for Miami, it's not that bad because they are not hard capped. They're over the first apron. They're under the second apron, not hard cap, which means you can actually make four for twos, three for twos, four for threes, all those kinds of trades. But some of the teams that they would be trading with It's just not realistic with the apron.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There were other people that were involved in that kind of chain. People like World Wide West is now one of the people on the next. But a lot of those Kentucky people did come into the league position to succeed. And they did. And they've had the most success I think of any college the last 15 years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So when I read that about Belichick, I was like, that's interesting that he's trying to reinvent himself basically as, you know, using North Carolina, awesome, awesome school, like one of the top 25 colleges, probably, um, ACC, you have a natural arrival in Duke. You get to play big games. You have a chance to make the playoffs, but big picture, um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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hey, if you want to play in the NFL, you're going to learn stuff here that maybe other places, it won't be the same. That makes sense to me. Now, whether he can sell that to some 17-year-old kid and their parents in Memphis, Tennessee, or Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, wherever he goes to recruit, I don't know if that's going to work, but it makes sense to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, Shams reported he had Dallas and Phoenix and some teams that I just don't think there's any way, shape, or form that there's a trade to be had with either side because of the apron stuff and because of the lack of assets. But that did lead to Jimmy's agent, Bernie Lee, getting really mad at Shams, which I loved. He's probably... He's one of the only agents that actually, like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, it made sense to me that he went to a school that actually is a strong academic school. Because the other way this could have gone that wouldn't have shocked me is if he just took over, like, I don't know what jobs are open, but Amherst, Williams, Harvard, Yale. One of those, just like he went full Div 3. Now, that would have been tougher for all the people he's bringing with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I don't know if they're the same amount of money, but the North Carolina Duke... that kind of level of really good schools that also have football at a pretty competitive level. It makes sense to me. Now, the thing he has to deal with here is if he's grumpy, curmudgeon, Belichick, Every single person he's coaching is on a one-year deal with this new college system.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And that balance, that's why we've seen a bunch of coaches get out. They didn't want to deal with it, right? He's approaching it fresh, but that's the biggest X factor to me, right? He's yelling at whoever and they're just like, okay, cool. I'm going to be at Ohio State next year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Anyway, Golden State. So Golden State is hard capped at the first apron. I swear there's not gonna be a test after this. And 1.7 million under the second apron, which is key because that means they can make three for ones, four for twos, stuff like that, as long as they don't pop over the second apron. I'm sorry, this is so much math. Here's the trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Right. Well, I'll tell you this. He's going to be going against certain coaches, uh, that he's going to be so overqualified competitively that it's going to be kind of hilarious.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I'm in the camp of, I think he's actually going to do really well because just like his attention to detail and the game management stuff he'll be able to do is going to be so far superior to some of these dudes that are in college. That's one of my frustrations when I watch colleges. I can't believe how sloppy and dumb and stupid some of the stuff is, especially late. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, it's basically he's Bobby Knight in the modern era. Exactly. If it's over 302 wins for the NFL third all time, 31 and 13 in the playoffs, including not including 13 buys. So 31 and 13 plus the buys, he's basically 44 and 13. 333 combined wins. Only Don Shula had more, 347. Six and three in Super Bowls. Three more as an assistant. So nine total.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And really the only person with a chance to catch him with any of this stuff seems to be Andy Reid, who is 32 wins behind him and five playoff wins behind him. And it's probably going to pass him. And I'm sure Belichick's probably okay with it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Probably not. I mean that it, if it was Philly, if Sirianni went sideways and he's moving in mid season, but you know, I talked to his people about him doing a podcast with Ringer and Spotify because they talked to everybody last year. One of the things they made very clear to everybody who was discussing any sort of media thing with him is Belichick will be coaching in February.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It would be Wiggins at Kaminga and Melton who's out for the year, right? So that's 46.6 million and Jimmy's making 48.8 million. Well, that doesn't work for Golden State. They also only have 14 guys. So if they do a four for one, they would have to then sign more guys to get to 14 because that's the rule. Well, that doesn't work either. So

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's like, keep it low, but this is a one-year thing. This is not a new career. He's doing this for one year. He will be coaching in February. And I always thought that was interesting that they're so honest about it. And just like, this is, he clearly wanted to do all the media stuff because he wanted to make money. But he was also trying to shift some sort of perception about him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think for the most part it worked. Because I think if you think about him in July, people just knew him as the all-time coach curmudgeon we've ever had. Not the same now, I don't think. He's inside the NFL. His humor came out a little bit. The Manning cast. There were some pretty dreary moments in the Manning cast, but there were also some fun clips too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He would do that Jim Gray podcast sometimes and he'd start throwing darts at coaches and stuff occasionally. So there was a little more, I think, that most people thought. But for people like you and me who had been watching him forever, none of it was surprising. It backed up everything we'd already heard. But I always felt like his...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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his sense of what his place was in football history and how he could shape that a little bit. I always thought he was way more aware of that. You don't let Halberstam do a biography of you. You don't let the NFL film crew follow you around for a year. Like he did care about that stuff. I think a little more than people realize, right? That was always my take.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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That was my fear with him doing a podcast with us. How far is he going to go? Is he going to hold back?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, and even the crafts. they did end up with Drake May somehow, right? They probably have one of the four worst coaches in the league. They have one of the, I think one of the worst front offices in the league that just had a horrible draft and a horrible free agency. But they do have this guy now who has a chance to be one of the five or six best QBs in the league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't really know how it works with Golden State unless they dump one of their guys, Kyle Anderson, Gary Payton, Moses Moody, who they just signed to an extension. They'd have to dump somebody to a third team. And I always get suspicious when that becomes in play. This is why Houston just seems like such the logical team to me. And I know they're on a high right now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And the whole fan base is completely in on him. And now it's become... I look at it and I'm just like, Vrabel's sitting there. Like, I don't understand. If you go back and you look at Vrabel's Tennessee career, in 2021, he was 12-5. and go look at that team. Like it's kind of like about to be washed up. Maybe already was Tannehill. They're kind of replace half the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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AJ Brown is about to get traded for Trelon Burke straight up or Trayvon Burks, whatever his name is. Um, and they overachieve with that team and then they trade, they trade Brown QB situation goes sideways. Um, Vrabel starts, you know, battling the front office and he's gone. And now he's just sitting there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And to me, like what we were talking about earlier about Harbaugh, Peyton, there's just like seven, eight coaches, Tomlin, seven, eight coaches that really matter. I think Vrabel is one of the seven or eight. You have Drake May. I don't understand if these last four games for the Pats don't go bad. If they go badly, just admit the mistake and hire Vrabel. He's a Patriot Hall of Famer.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think he'd come. Why wouldn't they do it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I agree. And yet I do feel like this is one of those situations where it, from everything we've seen this first year, there's really no glimmer of hope so far with the coach and the coaching staff and really any piece of this. And now it's like, well, so now we're going to run. And then a year from now, we'll change everything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, that's why these, well, these next four games are going to be so important because like Arizona this weekend is a winnable game for them. Arizona, I think has overachieved a little. They're not that talent. They're from a talent standpoint, not like crazy different than the Pats and may, might be able to just beat them by himself.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, but if they, they play Buffalo twice, I forget who the last game is, but I feel like if they go on four, um, and it's like a bad on for, I'm prepared for anything. Because Kraft's old. These owners get old, and they're like, fuck it. I'm in my 80s. I don't want to go down this way.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the funniest thing to me is why Chicago wouldn't hire him. And it's like, they're enamored with Ben Johnson. He calls great plays. It's like, how much evidence do we need that that might not be the deciding reason to hire a coach? In the last 15 years, Kyle Shanahan is the only... real whiz kid, new coach. Even somebody like McVay, who I think gets credit for that. McVay's a football coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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They just made the NBA Cup semifinals. With some help from Bill Kennedy. Great call. Always want to call that loose ball foul. When guys dive on each other, which never gets called ever. You definitely want to decide a game that way. Great job by him. The problem for Houston right now is the end of the game stuff. And you saw it yesterday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's doing everything on all sides. He's a people manager. He's a strategist. He's not just like, here are my 50 plays I'm bringing in the game. Frabel's like a culture changer. Chicago needs to... You know, they play in the worst weather probably in the league other than maybe two other cities. Like, they need to be, like, tougher on the lines. They need to be able to protect Caleb.

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I don't understand how just hiring a play caller is going to be the answer for them, but what do I know?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Sal and I talked about it a little on Sunday. I just think being a head football coach and being somebody who specializes on one side of the ball or the other over and over again, I would just rather have the overall head coach. Kevin Clark wrote a really good piece for us on the ringer I think it was for the 23 season about Vrabel and all the stuff that he did for the Titans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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People can go back and read it, but just about how he would grab different time with different, you know, he'd just be like, oh, I'm going to spend a half hour with the left guard because I don't like the way that he's stepping back on just every aspect of the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I think for the Patriot fans, like the stuff we read and hear about Mayo, like we're just, it just doesn't seem like that's happening. Not to mention the media stuff's been bad. The game management stuff's been bad. The team is exceptionally sloppy and I it's,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'm waiting for a light at the end of the tunnel with him because it would be a hell of a lot easier for all of us if he was a good coach or had a chance to be a good coach. But these next four games are going to determine it. All right, so you announced you have a new book coming in September. It's called American King's Biography of the Quarterback, available for pre-order now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And you just used your massive media clout to just go get time with a bunch of famous quarterbacks and find out what's going on with that position.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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As I've said before, they're probably my favorite league pass team. But the end of the game stuff... is where it gets a little dodgy with them. And a lot of that has to do with Fred VanVleet, who just has not been that good this year. 16 points a game, all shooting stats are down. And he's also a team option for next year at 42.9 million.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4741.294

Yeah, I obviously was obsessed with that draft in April and reading everything, talking to as many people as I could talk to. And I was so all in on May. But Manning, ironically, I was at a thing with him and I was just picking his brain because he knew May a little bit. And I was like, I really feel like May's the guy. And Manning was like, oh, yeah. That guy's the man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4765.002

That guy's going to be really good. I was like, really? I was like a little kid. Really? You think he's going to be good? But I do think part of, and I'm sure your book taps into that, is how the guys who have done it can spot things with the next guys. Like, oh, they just kind of know who has and who doesn't. And it's been the opposite of...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4785.407

you know, some of the other people we've had in different sports over the years. May's just been, he's checked every box. It's crazy. Like he even knows what to say in the press conferences already. It's nuts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

48.704

So FanDuel listened to me. I told them, let's do this. Let's try to get some profit boosts. Let's try to win the people some money. We started doing it. I've been tweeting out my picks on Friday. I look at the slate, start to get, I do like my favorite picks plus some long shots. I've been hitting the long shots. Just telling you, go check it out. I'll be tweeting those out on Fridays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4823.436

What happened to Sam Darnold? How does he go from it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4827.519

I think situation so much of it, which is why the Drake made thing has been amazing because he's in a bad situation. He's got bad receivers and a bad offensive line. And it doesn't seem like his coaching staff's that great. Although Van Pelt might be all right, but, um, but Darnold, holy shit. You look back at the situation he was in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

483.815

So you could actually use VanVleet as part of a mega trade, right? So they have Steven Adams at 12.6. They have Green and Tate. eight and seven and a half that are expiring. They have a lot of options. They also have a ton of picks. They have a couple Brooklyn picks. They have a couple Phoenix picks. They own some of their own firsts. So they have a lot of flexibility and maneuverability.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4843.889

It was like, of course he wasn't going to succeed, especially at the age he was at. Um,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4861.781

All right. Well, I look forward to reading that book. It's a great idea. Seth, awesome to see you read his piece today if you want even more information on this. But I hope all is well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4873.828

All right, Joe House is here. We're going to do some million-dollar picks in a second, brag about our record, do all that stuff. But NBA Cup is the semifinals are Saturday night. The odds on FanDuel, OKC's plus 115, Milwaukee's plus 270, Rockets 4-1, Atlanta, a feel-good, super-fun bet at plus 550. My instinct says just lay the plus 115 with OKC and call it a day.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4940.121

Yeah, it seemed like that OKC team is kind of a bitch to go against with all those swings they have and all those athletes. And... They just seemed like they knocked him out of his rhythm in the first half, and that was it. It shouldn't have been that easy, though. But if I'm OKC, we talked about it Tuesday night. That's such a good outcome, that that's the team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4958.167

That's one of the hurdles you needed to get over in the West, and now you just feel like you can go at those guys. So they're playing the Houston Pitbulls on Saturday night, who are just the classic. I don't know why I love this team so much, because their last few minutes of their offense is so... You know, it's just a chore, which is why a Jimmy Butler trade. Part of the eyes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

4979.034

Yeah, I talked earlier about a Jimmy Butler trade, but they just desperately need somebody who can get a really good shot. Doesn't appear like it's going to be Jalen Green. But I just like the... I think it's going to be an awesome back-and-forth game. We saw it two weeks ago. I loved it. The Atlanta game. Atlanta-Milwaukee with that weird, goofy Milwaukee team. And I know Giannis can just...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5001.331

have the 38-19 and just overpower them. But I talked about it earlier in the pod. I continue to be infatuated by this Atlanta team and you feel the same.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

504.287

And the trade that I created, being the Picasso of the trade machine, if it's Van Vliet and it's Adams is expiring and Tate's expiring and Cam Whitmore, who I actually like, who's just buried because he's got the Terra Twins in front of him, Jalen Green, and you get Butler and Rozier back,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5057.149

No, you get, you get worried about the 29 footer from Trey. So I said earlier in the pod, Trey is at this really, really interesting inflection point. Where I feel like it's either going to happen or it's not. You know, like statistically, all these signs that he's going a little bit downhill as a scorer. And yet he's on the most fun Hawks team he's ever been on. The kind of team we would create.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5077.575

We're trying to create a team for him. He's got lobbers and lob targets and shooters, all of these things. People are protecting my defense. And now I want to see him elevate. And I think both of us are suspicious that it's in there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5102.17

But not statistically for him, though. I guess that's the difference is could he become with all these weapons? Could he turn into like a 24 and 12 guy and a 40 percent shooter and all the stuff we need?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5147.603

Yeah, I thought it was a moment. You know, and I think Trey is such an interesting guy to discuss and watch. And there's so many things I don't like about his game, like that Lakers game. He just did a couple of horrible shots, but then he'll make a shot, right? But the thing I do like about him is the swagger and the competitiveness is there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5164.535

Like you knew at the end of the game, he wasn't gonna be afraid of the moment. And the guys that he has around him, even that Risa Shea, And we watched him before the season in that Brooklyn exhibition game. And both of us, you were at my house and we were just watching going, what's up with this guy? We kind of like this guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5180.526

Yeah. And you know, I, I, I just think it's a bunch of dudes that Bogdanovich comes in. He's not scared. It's a bunch of guys that aren't afraid. So I'm, I'm kind of leaning toward liking them in that Milwaukee matchup as an underdog. They are a plus one 48 plus three and a half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

521.889

and you put a pick in that trade, and Miami is saving $7 million just on that deal, plus they get a pick, they get to look at Whitmore, they get VanVleet, they get to kind of stay peripherally competitive this year. They could still move VanVleet in a one-for-one trade if they wanted to, if it was a salary close. That trade makes sense to me for both sides because it allows Miami to reboot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5244.38

Couldn't agree more. Because Giannis could still have the 38-17 and they could still lose. They're going to put Daniels. They're going to try to take out Dame with Daniels and some of the other swings. Somebody like Trey has always been a problem for this Bucs team with how to guard these shifty point guards. So if Trey plays well, they win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5262.066

I almost feel like you could do the Hawks money line with some sort of Trey overbet. All right, let's talk some football.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5274.195

We're doing really well on Million Dollar Picks. We won $551,000 last week. We are up $1.764 million. That's pretty good. This is one of my favorite weeks of the year. It almost scares me a little. There's just, it's playing all the hits for me. I love good to decent teams. Three points or under. I love Mike Tomlin getting points. You could probably guess what my picks are going to be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5303.404

There's like an easy teaser. So we'll go through some of it. Steelers, Eagles, Steelers plus five and a half. I'll let you take the floor because I heard what you said on the ringer gambling show today. And you had a couple of points in this game that I just wholeheartedly agreed with. Do your, what good defenses Philly played thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5341.039

Wait, can I give them quick? Cleveland, Giants, Cincy, Jaguars, Cowboys, Washington, Rams, Baltimore, Carolina. And it's not like they were throwing up 40 points a game either against those defenses, but that speaks to just nobody even remotely approaching what Pittsburgh has.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5411.153

31st in a passing league that has some horrible quarterbacks. They're 31st out of 32.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

544.068

It allows Houston to end up with Butler, Brooks, Shangoon, Green, Rogier, Jabari, the Terror Twins, and Landell. And I already had them third or fourth in the West anyway, and... I like Van Vliet. Oh, I forgot Shepard too. I like Van Vliet, but I think they could get by without him. And you put Butler and Butler now becomes the end of the game guy. I think he'd have a chip on his shoulder.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5444.97

Like Pittsburgh has one of the preeminent special teams of this decade. The season Boswell's having, I think Boswell might be having the greatest fantasy football season by a kicker in the last 15 years. I had him on the vote out league that I'm in with Sal and Hench and those guys. And I didn't make the playoffs. My team sucked. And I felt bad. I almost felt like sending Boswell a letter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5465.879

I'm sorry I let you down. You did everything you could. This wasn't your fault, Boswell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5481.145

He might have over 200 fantasy points this year. It's just outrageous. Kickers don't do that. The top kicker is usually 160, 170. So they have him, the Tomlin factor. Tomlin has an underdog. Philly's first rushing offense. Pittsburgh's fourth against the run in the entire league.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5499.68

And the only thing that worries me is the Pickens part. That's it. They're not going to have Pickens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5528.082

Under, under, under. You're just laying out unders left and right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5531.543

I think this has been a season about the general public underestimating things. And Pittsburgh is like the leader of the pack with that. People have underestimated them before the season, as the season was going, people kept looking for reasons. And then this is the most offensive line of them all. Like the Eagles could win and win by 14. I still think the line's offensive.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5553.092

I think it's a three point game. I can't believe it's five and a half. especially with how the Eagles looked last week, barely beating Carolina, having some sniping after the game. And this is like where Pittsburgh loves to be. Like it's going to be, the weather's not going to be that bad, but it's a Pennsylvania game. So not, not long travel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5572.492

And it, to me, it just feels like a 20 to 16, 19 to 16, 21 to 20. So I was looking at different bets. Like the other thing is the Steelers are five and a half. So Vegas is like, we don't know. We're throwing this to the Vegas zone. Steelers plus four and a half on Fando is, is even money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5591.239

Steelers plus five and a half is like minus 113. If you do Steelers plus four and a half with an under of 45 and a half, that's plus 198. It's almost two to one. And I guess my question to you is, So how many points become unrealistic for a game like this? Because if we don't think the Eagles are going to be able to run the ball, that might actually lead to more long passes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5614.428

But I don't think the Steelers are going to be able to get the same explosive plays that they used to have. So the model for them to win is just run the ball, run the ball, control it, try to wear the Eagles out. And then on defense, the Eagles stubbornly try to run against them for a half. It doesn't work. And then maybe it opens up second half, but...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5632.077

Um, I was looking at that Steelers plus five and a half under 47 and a half is plus one 63.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5642.33

Steelers win the game outright with under 45 and a half is plus 328. So there's, there's some great good ones, but I normally my instinct would be to pull the Steelers up over seven. I don't think, I think in this one, like this is, this feels like a three point game to me and they've played these games all year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5657.706

And I think, I think they're going to have a chip on their shoulder and this might be a team they see in the Superbowl. FYI.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

567.098

That's the trade I'm rooting for. I just think that's a fun trade for everybody. Plus it would be yet another Miami situation where they're doing a reboot and it seems like it's bleak and they're done. And then all of a sudden they're a 55 win team again because they make two moves. Anyway, that is number one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5707.023

What's the best unit in the game? And I would say it's Pittsburgh's defense. Now, if Philly can run the ball on them, We'll know within a quarter and the game's probably over. But I think this... To me, this feels like a close game. It feels like a field position game. Special teams will factor it in. And I just... I like some combination of... Maybe it's all the way up to 47.5.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5728.743

Maybe it's Steelers plus 5.5 with the under 47.5. Something like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5733.085

I think that's the move.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5736.547

Next one. Lions-Bills. So... This is Lions minus two and a half, which is just a complete FU to the Lions defense by everybody. People are like, you didn't fool us last week. Your team spent 38 seconds calling every play on offense and just doing everything they could to keep the defense off the field. And now you're going to play Josh Allen. We don't trust you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5760.802

My counter is that the Rams showed what to do against Buffalo last week. They ran the ball, they ran the ball, then play action or quick passes, and they just got first downs and moved the ball. And Detroit has a better offense than the Rams do. They have a better offensive line. I don't know how Buffalo, I just feel like they're gonna get pushed backwards the whole game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5782.667

I think that's, Buffalo's the team that needs the lead. And I think the Lions are just going to push him back, push him back. Maybe there's a scenario where Josh is chasing the cover late, but this defense looks like an awesome matchup for the Lions. So I'm more focused on their offense and less the defensive deficiencies. What are you looking at?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

584.229

Leading to number two, what the hell does Golden State do if they can't get Jimmy Butler? Because I think it's going to be really hard to pull off. You're going to have to trade a pick in a Jimmy Butler trade. You're going to have to trade another pick to get rid of the contract you need to make it happen or put Podzemski, send him somewhere else to create the thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5882.187

And I don't want to do this, but I'm just saying, like, if you're taking the Lions, if you're like, I want to take the Lions plus two and a half, I would take Lions money line and do over 50 and a half. Like over 50 and a half Lions money line is plus 206. I would do something like that. This is not going to be a 24 to 16 type of game. I think there's going to be points.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5900.272

But I feel like there's been a few times this year where Detroit's offense got discounted a little bit. Okay. Even Green Bay last Thursday night. We all love Green Bay. We ended up... Actually, I think we ended up winning that bet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5919.466

Yeah. But Detroit, 34 points, probably could have more. To me, this is just a... Just don't overthink it. Lions are home. They need the game. That's the other thing. It's not like they have a three-game lead in the NFC. Minnesota's one game behind them. And...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5935.728

their offense is just way better than Buffalo's, even though Buffalo's offense is really good, but like Detroit's plus 27 and touchdowns this year, Buffalo's plus 18 Detroit's net yards. They've scored almost a thousand more yards than the other team or gained a thousand more yards. Buffalo's at 300.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

5953.441

Buffalo's had weeks where they, they've just looks like they've, they're like that Baltimore game, the game, uh, last week where it just feels like you can go up and down the field in them. And, uh, I like the matchup for Detroit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6029.153

Muscle, not pot. Like Detroit really needs the game. Buffalo. They're either going to be the two or the three C. There's urgency, but not like crazy. That's urgency. Why? You think they can drop the four?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

603.985

Is it worth it to trade Wiggins and Kaminga and Mountain and a pick and then send Podzemski somewhere else to get another asset to get Jimmy Butler? I don't think it is. My advice for them, the Brooklyn Nets are in a bizarre situation right now where they're playing really well and they're overachieving because Jordy Fernandez has been a revelation as a coach.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6060.548

Incredible against the spread. With that said, I hate betting against Josh Allen. Sure. We'll take a break and then we'll hit the rest of the games. All right, come back. More games that I like. Well, there's one I don't that I stared at that I wanted to throw in. Chargers minus three at home against the Bucs. And I had them written down all week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6081.277

I kept looking at it, kept looking at the injury report, and this seems like a week to stay away with the Chargers. There's something I don't like about it. The macaque's not healthy. Dobbins is out. Herbert now has this sprained ankle situation again. And I feel like this line should be like chargers by four and the books are trying to tell us something.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6104.294

So being a three point underdog, like I, they didn't even look good last week. So it's a stay away from your house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6134.607

They played in the NFC South.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6180.274

I know I'm coming on the ringer Sunday pregame on Sunday. I could see being back in on the Chargers on Sunday. I'm not doing it now on a Thursday afternoon.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6188.82

Here's a game I do love. Houston minus two and a half against Miami. Okay. Texans off a bye. Miami's pass defense. Kind of getting semi-shredded by Aaron Rodgers, who's been done for three years. D'Amico Ryan's versus Tua. Raheem talked about that on the Ringer Gambling Show today. There was a San Francisco game with Tua that was not awesome for Tua. Houston's defense. Seventh against the pass.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6219.781

Second in sacks. Second in tackles for a loss. Most importantly, House. We're kind of due for a good C.J. Stroud game. We're just due. I would say overdue. I know that's a goofy thing to say, but he's got his receivers back. Nico Collins is back. They're coming off a bye. It just feels like this is a first quarter where they come out swinging, make a couple big plays. They hit two a couple times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6248.387

I don't think Miami's good. And I think, to me, this is a gift of a line. This line should be Texans by three and a half. People don't trust Houston. I get it. Not even sure Houston's that good. If they can't win this game, we might have to take their AFC South title house. Just give it to somebody else.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

625.982

It really reminds me of Will Hardy that first year in Utah, Brad Stevens' first year in Boston. We see this happen from time to time where the coach is just too good for the tank. So Brooklyn's going to have to start sabotaging their own team. And they have Cam Johnson, who's having the best year of his career. He's 19 a game, 45% three. Eye test, looks the best he's been. 28 years old.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6295.354

And Jalen Ramsey looked like shit in that game, didn't he?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6338.766

You know what I like the most about this game? So if the Jets just finished the game last week, that stupid game that they gave away, and the Dolphins lose to the Jets last week, what's the line on this game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6351.964

It's at least three and a half. It might even be four.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6355.245

So instead, we're at two and a half because the Jets just decided to actually have like a stroke on the field. They were so stupid. Yeah. Houston's four and one. Here's another reason to be suspicious of Houston. They're four and one against the South, a terrible division. They've also beaten the Bears, the Patriots, and the Cowboys. So this might be the best win they have in a while.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6398.207

um they're one of the worst teams they're one of the worst teams in the nfl in the second half yeah i saw the second half stuff is terrible with them right um yeah i hate doing those first half you don't you don't like the exotic it's minus one and a half we saved like a point you know okay all right i don't listen you made me you did make me think do you think two is good

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6424.805

So you're in the pro tour camp.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6427.67

I just can't get there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6455.01

Yeah. Or if he's getting pounded by the passers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6458.891

Okay. last straight up game Seahawks Packers still the stupefying line to me of the week the lack of respect for Seattle Pittsburgh and Seattle were the two I was like wow what do why am I seeing this so differently Seahawks are plus two and a half at home against the Packers I just don't get it the now that and you laid out the case on the gambling pod today but

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

646.374

He's a little older than I think you think he is. But if I was going to stay out at Audible and go after Cam Johnson and Schroeder and try to figure out, is there something we can do with Wiggins? or we want to put Kaminga in that. If we don't want to pay Kaminga next year, could you turn Kaminga into Cam Johnson, basically? Could it be Kaminga and Melton for Cam Johnson?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6485.836

I don't feel like the defense thing is a mirage. There was real reasons why they started to struggle defensively. All of their guys are back now. They're actually playing really good defense. McDonald's been there for a while. They understand what he's trying to do. And then the other thing that jumped out, especially last week, is the blocking for their offensive line went from

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6505.472

horrific to pretty passable. Like they ran the ball down the throats of Arizona last week. Their last four wins, they beat San Francisco and they won three road games last four weeks at San Francisco, home Arizona, at the Jets at Arizona. The other thing I like, House, their third, they basically have the third best passing attack in the league and that's been a weakness for Green Bay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6526.667

So I'm trying to think of How Green Bay goes in there and just waltzes and beat them. It would have to be a pretty extraordinary Jordan Love game. And I think Seattle's defense can actually contain him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, the last few games, they lost to Detroit twice. They came back and beat the Bears 20-19, Iberflues' last win. They killed the San Francisco in the game, which was a good win for them, but also San Francisco had a ton of injuries. And then they beat Miami on that Thursday night. And I like the Packers. I think they're a good team, but I don't think they should be favored in Seattle.

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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If it was the Seattle from five weeks ago, I get it, but not the Seattle we watched last month. So to me, that's I think Seattle should be favored. And the rule is if you feel like you're getting so many more points than you thought you might be getting. Anyway, there's a couple things we can do with this. I think Seahawks money line is the play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But Seahawks in a teaser is kind of fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Seahawks minus two and a half is plus 154.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

669.691

Is there some version of, would you rather pay Cam Johnson 22 million than Kaminga for 30 million? Do you try to get Schroeder in it? Could it be Wiggins, Melton, and an unprotected first for Johnson and Schroeder? It just feels like Brooklyn Golden State seems like the matchup for me. So keep an eye on that. I don't think Golden State's going to be able to get a second star.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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So maybe that's the way to play it. Maybe you play the money line and then put them in a teaser. So teaser possibilities. I'm just insisting on one. The Chiefs are minus four and a half against the Browns. So it's more of a money parlay than a teaser. But the Chiefs are only minus four and a half in Cleveland. Bad weather. It's the Chiefs. Nobody trusts them anymore to cover anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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The Browns are horrible. The Browns should be one. I went through their schedule. The Browns should be one in 12. They're not horrible. The Browns are 32nd in DVOA this year. They're last. They're dead last with DVOA. They're getting more and more injuries every week. Now Greg Newsome is out. They can't run the ball at all.

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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And to beat the Chiefs, it's just going to have to be Jameis doing stuff every week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6799.297

How about how about them in Cleveland just to win and beat Jameis Winston and a team that's missing a kajillion guys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I can name them. Josh Palmer, Quentin Johnson. Those guys stink.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6865.088

Smart stone. You don't trust the Chiefs, and yet I heard you earlier today talk about how much you like the Cowboys in a fucking tease. The Cowboys are reprehensible. So you trust the Cowboys?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6880.6

I just need the Chiefs to beat the Browns. They can win by half a point, and I win the bet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

69.271

Be sure to claim your PBT. And place your 30 on 30 bet for Friday. Look for 30 on 30 in the FanDuel Sportsbook app. You can also look for the Ringer Sunday pregame show as well, which you do on FanDuel TV, on FanDuel's fast channel, and on YouTube TV, most importantly, at 11 ET on Sundays. Sal has been... Absolutely out of his mind hot. I think he's 12 and two on best bets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I don't see a scenario where they get LeBron and Bronny back. LeBron and Bronny making $50 million combined. They'd have all the same problems that they would have trying to get Jimmy Butler that I just laid out. On top of the fact that LeBron is at his 22nd season and doesn't play defense anymore. Brooklyn seems like the spot for them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Go ahead. Yeah, I know all those stats. But in a weird way, you're proving my point. The Browns have Jedi mind. It's not sustainable. But the Browns have Jedi mind trick people into thinking they're not terrible. And they are. They're not. They're 32nd in DVOA. They have a worse DVOA than Carolina, New England, Tennessee, Las Vegas, and the New York Giants. Worse than everybody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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What about, did you see, what did Jameis do last week that you liked? Other than just sail the ball over people's heads and make terrible plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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The other tease I like is the Vikings against the Bears. Just because I'm tired of passing on Sam Darnold. Now you're talking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6963.0

I don't trust your team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

6965.502

I don't trust your team. The closest margin of victory... I don't trust your 27th run defense against the Saints just running the ball like 200 times against you. Makes me nervous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I don't trust your team. I'm sorry.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I'm not going to try to make the case. Vikings minus seven against the Bears. The Vikings' weakness is you can kind of throw at them, and the Bears are 30th pass. Um...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Minnesota fourth in sacks, not to mention all the Flores split stuff, Chicago 32nd. The only case for the Bears is just that they played the Vikings pretty well a month ago. Yep. But now that Darnold, Jefferson, Addison, they're all humming again. Did you see that there was a long video of Kirk Cousins saying goodbye to everybody in Minnesota after the game? Did you see this?

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I think I sent this to you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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It's a four minute video. All the Vikings, all their players, coaches stuck around in the field to say goodbye to him after the game.

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No, they loved him. They loved him so much that it was just guy after guy coming over, hugging him. Hey, man, it's great to see you. He just seems like he was the most beloved teammate ever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

7051.038

So you're down on Vikings minus seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

7057.765

What if I talked you into Casey money, Minnesota money.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

7064.727

Casey money, Minnesota money, Seattle plus eight and a half is plus 150.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

707.408

I'm still bullish on this golden state team, but Curry needs some help. Next thing. So the wilt 50 club, which I just created one second ago, where you have to play 50 games. And you have to average 50 points, rebounds, and assists combined at least. And it is not as easy as you think, my friends. Just since the merger, Kareem did it three times. Highest was 56 in 1971.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

7073.57

I'm not mad. What is it about the ringer gambling show that the shitty teams and the bad quarterbacks are like fucking catnip for you guys? I don't get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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So there's a Minnesota tease possibility with Seattle.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

7117.99

I still like that Seattle minus two and a half plus 154.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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All right. I think I know what we want to do for Million Dollar Picks. All right, it's time. Million Dollar Picks, week 15. We are staying away from Niners-Rams tonight. As much as we usually like throwing a little something on the Thursday night if we can get the pot up in time. To me, it's just an abject stay away, Rams-Niners. Staying away. So apologies to both of those teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We did not want to wager on you tonight. Here's what we do want to do. And we're up $1.764 million. We won $551,000 last week, house.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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First one, Steelers. We looked at this all different ways. We thought about money line with the under. We thought about Steelers plus four and a half on fan duels, even odds, like all kinds of machinations. Both of us feel like this line is two to two and a half points too high because the Steelers defense, how good it is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Don't trust the Eagles passing offense. Do not. Love Mike Tomlin as an underdog. Love. The most underappreciated discounted team of 2024, the Pittsburgh Steelers, plus five and a half in Philly. We were putting $200,000 on that one, even though George, don't call me Carl Pickens, is not playing. So there you go. That's our first one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Second one, Lions minus two and a half at home against Josh Allen and the Bills. This is a straight backing of the Lions offense. We're going in eyes wide open. Could be a fun live head, live hedge house near the end. Bills down 14 late. Just jump on Josh. Try to middle it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Who do you think is the best team right now? Just in general. Is it still the Lions for you? Detroit, yes.

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An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Yeah, that's how I feel. All right. Well, we get them under a field goal at home in a big game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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And by the way, the Bills don't necessarily need the game. They're either going to be the two seed or the three seed unless... Casey loses in Cleveland this week. If you missed the first part of the pod house, would it let me put Casey at a teaser parlay? Even though Cleveland's 32nd DVOA Cleveland sucks. They're terrible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I don't think this seemed like a layup and house through his body in front of it. So I get to just send him MF or Texas. If Casey's up by 20 next bet, Texans minus two and a half at home. against the Miami Dolphins, who came very close to losing Aaron Rodgers, who gave up a 300-yard game to Aaron Rodgers, which should get kicked out of the league at this point. Texans minus 2.5, coming off a bye.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Winging the ball around?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

7338.542

We're banking on this being a, hey, CJ Stroud, welcome back to the season game combined with if the Jets had just taken care of business beating the Dolphins last week, there's no way this line would be minus two and a half. And we're grabbing Houston 200K on that. Now we're putting a little teaser With Minnesota and Seattle, Minnesota's minus seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Luca did it last year, 52.9. Russ did it in his MVP season, 52.7. Bob McAdoo, 50.8 in 1975. Giannis is doing it right now, 50.1. Harden did it in 2019, 50.3. And Jokic, 56.1 right now, which would be the single highest number anyone has done since Wilt and Russell were playing. So the reason it's the Wilt 50 Club, Wilt has the top six. Wilt has 10 in the top 11.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Seattle is plus two and a half at home against Green Bay. So we'll nudge that up six points. We're putting 200K on that. We don't understand the Seattle line at all. Minnesota at home against Chicago. We believe in this Minnesota team. Still lingering, still hoping the Lions stumble and they can just hop up and grab the one seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Sam Darnold, would you take him on the commanders if you didn't have Daniels? I think you would.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I would take him on the pats if we didn't have Drake May, the future of the NFL on our team. I like him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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And then we're going to do a little 50K parlay of the Pittsburgh Moneyline. Combined with the Seahawks minus two and a half on FanDuel, which is plus 142. You put those two together. Plus 638. That's juicy, baby. Pittsburgh Moneyline. Seahawks minus two and a half. We're going to put 50K on that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I really was trying to figure out a way to work Drake May and a million dollar picks in Arizona because I think they actually may be dumb enough to beat Arizona this week, but we'll stay away. We don't need it. Good job.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Those are the million-dollar picks for week 15. House, we can see you on the Ringer Sunday pregame show. I might be stopping by. Can't wait.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Have you thought about who's your underdog pick? It's just going to be Pittsburgh, right? It might be.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I hope you're dumb enough to take them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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You know who I was looking at as a possible underdog? I wouldn't bet it, but just for if you're forced to take an underdog for that segment, the Riddler and the Raiders going against Atlanta in Vegas. I feel like the Raiders have one more dumb win in them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I thought that one jumped out to me. Seahawks are somehow an underdog. I'm sure JJ will take them. I don't mind that Pat says an underdog pick, though. Anyway, House, great to see you. Enjoy the NBA Cup this weekend. I will see you next week. So thanks to House. Thanks to Seth Wickersham. Thanks to Saruti and Kyle and Gahal. Don't forget, new Rewatchables coming on Monday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Don't forget, you can find all the clips. from this podcast on my YouTube channel. And I think we're running video for this podcast as well. So if you're on Spotify, just flip your phone. Just look, you might just see me in house right now. I will see you on Sunday. Enjoy the week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Must be 21 plus and president select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas star casino or 18 plus and president DC gambling problem. Call 100 gambler, visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

7577.845

Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Wilt averaged a 78.4 points, rebounds, assists combined in 1962. That's insane. Oscar Robertson did it five times. Pettit did it twice. Eldrin did it twice. Walt Bellamy did it once. We don't count Walt Bellamy. Jordan's highest ever, 48.9. Shaq's highest ever, 47.1. Bird, 45.8. LeBron, 45.6. Kobe, 45.2. Just getting to 50 is really hard. I like the 50 club. Let's create it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Jokic right now, 32, 14, and 10. And he's shooting 56, 50, and 81%. 33.2 PER. Uh, this season's just insane, but, uh, I don't know how high this goes. Cause it's too high right now. It's not going to lie. He's not going to be continuing to do the stuff that he's been doing. It's not realistic, but could he end up 31, 13 and nine? Could he end up 32, 13 and 10? I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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I'm prepared for anything. Cause nobody on the team could score. So the 50 club, uh, I think Jokic, Kareem is the highest ever, 56.0. I think Jokic could potentially set the record. I'm in on the 50 club. All right. They wanted me to do a superior take. And I have one, of course.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I've been thinking a lot about the fouling at the end of the game stuff because there was a Celtics Cavaliers game, which has now become infamous. I think it was a week and a half ago. Celtics are down four with under 30 seconds left. There are 18 free throw attempts in the last 26 seconds. Both teams just were fouling each other. Everybody was like, nobody's going to shoot a three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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Well, I'll foul you too. And it just becomes a foul off. Final score was 115 to 111. There were 20 points scored in the last 26 seconds because of all the free throws. And I think I speak for everyone. This sucks. The free throw parade down the stretch. is abominable and it feels like it's getting worse. So how do we fix it? Well, I have a regular season fix for this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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If you foul somebody in the last minute of a game, no matter what the score is, whether you're leading or trailing, the first free throw counts for two points. That's it. And if you make it, you get basically the two points for the free throws. The game keeps going. If you miss it, you still get to shoot a second free throw, but that only counts for one point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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So when we have these foul-offs at the end, Pritchard gets fouled by Cleveland, even though they're up four. If Pritchard hits one, now it's a two-point game. And that's how it goes. And I really think it would work. I don't know who would be against it. And let's speed these games up because the other options, the Elam ending, which nobody really understands.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Two points for your first free throw in the last minute of the game. Let's try it in the regular season. Let's see if it works. And if it works, we do it for the playoffs. That's my superior take. All right. Two more things really quick. Who could be next year's out of nowhere young contender?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

An NBA Six-Pack, Belichick to UNC, and Million-Dollar Picks

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So this would be a team playing right now that a year from now, maybe it would look like the Rockets right now as one of the best four teams in the West. The Rockets were 41 and 41 last year. Maybe it looks like OKC last year when they won 57 games the year before they were 40 and 42. Maybe it looks like Memphis in 2022 when they won 56 games the year before they were 38 and 34.

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And he's not shy about telling everybody that he talks to about how excited he is about that. So there you go. So on this podcast, I'm going to do an NBA six pack at the top because I had some NBA thoughts, even though we did a bunch of them on Tuesday with Goldsberry and Jacoby. I have more NBA thoughts. So we're going to do a six pack at the top.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So a team that's around 500, maybe a little bit lower, but has some pedigree, at least one young star with a chance to be like really great, need to be around 500, need to have some other fun pieces. And there's two candidates, one for each conference. The Pistons, this is a team Rosillo has been very focused on. I always admire Rosillo's love for weirdly compelling East Coast teams.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Detroit's 10 for 15. Played a pretty hard schedule. They lost to Boston twice, lost to Milwaukee twice, lost to Cleveland, lost to Houston, lost to Memphis, lost to Orlando, split with the Knicks. And they've been hanging around a lot of these games. And Rosillo's made this point in his pod, but these early afternoon games,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday, Friday player performance stuff. We have a same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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That would be a good t-shirt, the fuck-off Mavericks. Two things. One, I've never seen, it's almost like when they have those probability things of like a coin toss and it's like, this guy rolled, flipped a quarter and 23 straight times it came up heads.

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The Mavericks, 23 straight times, have made the wrong decision, where I've completely disagreed with whatever they decided to do, starting with not shopping the trade. Not shopping.

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You go on through every single piece, then the trade happens, the way they handled it, the way Mark Cuban didn't do anything, and then all of a sudden went on his little tour pretending he didn't have anything to do with it, even though he didn't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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It doesn't matter. To me, that's irrelevant. It was still the stupidest trade of our lifetime.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Get Austin Reeves in the trade, fuckfaces. I have no argument with anything that you say.

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Also, if they had called us in, I've said this before, but did anyone bring up, yo, you might be lighting a fire under him. This is already a stupid trade. But the person you're trading, you're basically killing off that person and he's going to be a much more motivated version of the same person, which is going to be bad for, like, just don't do this.

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I wonder what, off to your Davis point, I wonder what happens if they bring him in for a physical, they already have the outcry and then they fail him in the physical the way the Lakers failed Mark Williams. And they void the trade.

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All the other teams. 31 teams in the league or 30 teams in the league. And the two expansion teams. They also would have traded everything. That's right. Well, so the one thing is just I can't believe how many decisions in a row the Mavericks screwed up. Even to this week with the way they handled everything was amazing. The second thing, you know, and we've been moving this way now for 20 years.

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Maybe Jordan even started it in the 90s where fans like they play more than a team. We've never seen a trade where the fans went with the player, right? So true. We saw LeBron fans follow him to Cleveland, Miami, back to Cleveland, LA, just because they were LeBron fans. We've seen the phenomenon in the 21st century of, I just like this player, I'm following him wherever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Maybe it's Kevin Durant, whoever it is. We've never seen a fan base kind of switch sides against the team But yeah, it kind of makes sense because you think like people get divorced all the time. Sure. Right? Yeah. What is it? Like 50% of marriages end in divorce? That's the stat. Why did you say it so nervously? You got something to tell me? No, no.

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But this could be the first ever, I've divorced my team and now I am following Luca on the Lakers and that's my new team. I felt like there was real seeds in the stands last night. I don't know if it was just Laker fans. Some of those fans might have just been Mavs fans who are now like, fuck it, I'm a Laker fan.

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But this could be the next 10 years. Every time he comes back, the Lakers are treated like it's a home game for the Lakers in Dallas. That is going to happen. I expect that. Well, there's only one outcome now, and this has been the conspiracy the whole time, but that the family gets the Vegas team and they make the Dallas team the expansion team. That's actually a realistic outcome now.

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What if Cuban bought the team back? Mark Cuban, conquering hero, coming out. I shouldn't have sold the team. I'll take them back now. My bad. Maybe it's worth less because they've destroyed a billion dollars of value.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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We didn't plan on this. Let's do it right now. Teams you would rather own than the Mavericks. I'll just list every team. OKC, Cleveland, Boston, Houston, the Knicks. You'd want to own all of those teams over the Mavericks. True story. Lakers, Indiana?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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We're going to talk a lot of golf. We're going to do a big baby doll deep dive later. We have a lot of good stuff coming up on this podcast. But Joe House is here, and we stayed up late to watch Minnesota-Memphis, a game that yet again had dramatic Western Conference ramifications. Minnesota wins. Minnesota now the 7 seed. Memphis now the 8 seed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Rather have Detroit. How about that? If I told you two years ago you'd rather own the Detroit Pistons than Dallas Mavericks. Well, two years ago, no. You'd say no way. Orlando? Orlando? Yeah, I'd rather have Palo in Florida. No state tax.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Yeah, that's the first one. Atlanta, I'd rather have Atlanta. Me too. Chicago, I'd rather have Chicago and be in a major city. Miami, heat culture. Come on. Phoenix. Phoenix.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Because you inherit the crazy luxury tax and all the terrible front office stuff. I think I'd rather have Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Brooklyn? Black Sheep, New York scene, but I might get Cooper Flag in two months. That one's close. And I have a bunch of picks. I'd rather be Brooklyn. Philly? Depends on where that pick is. Five years from now. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Okay, there's another one. Not even close. Would you rather be Charlotte or Dallas? Dallas.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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What if you got the flag pick? So Dallas, unless Charlotte gets the flag pick. And I'd rather be Utah. Would you rather be the Wizards or Dallas? Would you rather own Washington or Dallas? So me, if it was me?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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So the point is, it was less than six teams. Yes. And a year ago, you would have put Dallas in the top eight. They were in the finals with Luca. They were in the finals. Come on.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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So maybe Mark Cuban buys them back for like $2.5 million. $2.5 billion? Yeah, he gets it back for a billion cheaper. I'm in a really conflicted spot, by the way. Why? Because I kind of enjoy Luka. I do want him to stick it to them, but he's on the Lakers, the team that other than the Yankees, I hate the most. Yeah. And this is like really agonizing for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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They have Austin Reeves, who I really enjoy watching. They have Luca, who I enjoy the comeback thing. The LeBron thing's fascinating.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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The irony of that, Lakers-Warriors round one, the biggest ratings in round one history. And Adam Silver like, ah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Two things happened. Football ended. And the league figured out how to get Luka Dacic to the Lakers for 80% off. Unbelievable. Who are you picking for the West right now? Still OKC?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Yeah, me too. All right. We're going to take a break. Come back with House and Nathan talking Masters. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel. It's the final stretch of the NBA season. The playoff picture changing literally by the minute. From three-pointers to steals to assists, FanDuel has so many ways to bet your favorite player props.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Plus, after the game tips off, you can combine live... prop bets into a same game parlay for a chance to win big. Join FanDuel today. You'll get started with $250 in bonus bets if your first $5 bet wins. How about that? Join FanDuel and visit FanDuel.com slash BS to get in on all the NBA play-in tournament action. FanDuel.com slash BS for your shot.

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The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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The $250 in bonus bets make every moment more with FanDuel, official sports betting partner. All right, taping this 7 o'clock Eastern time, this part of the podcast. Joe House is here. Nathan Hubbard is here from our Fairway Rolling podcast. We've been at the Masters all week. We went to round one today.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Unless they lose the 8-9 game. So Memphis, 12-17 in their last 29. That includes a coach firing. 21st net rating in those games, not counting tonight. And they would play their Sacramento or Dallas in the 8-9 game. And we were watching them this whole game. And I've watched them a few times. They can't guard anybody anymore. It just feels like anyone can go off on them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Trying to keep it a little big picture just because by the time some people hear this, the Masters Round 2 will be going. Things change. I'm pretty sure Justin Rose isn't going to be at minus 14 in two days. He's at minus 7 now. Scott is at minus 4. Why are you making a... Never say never.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Well, whatever. He's not going to be minus 14 after two days. It's not likely. Big picture stuff. First thing, the gallery excitement thing because we did not have Tiger Woods this time around. And I was trying to think who, and we were able to watch practice rounds on Tuesday. The par three was yesterday. These guys were messing around. Nathan and I had a great moment.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Well, tell the moment when we stumbled into those guys on the fifth hole yesterday. On the fifth hole?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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We were like, these guys are nice at loose. But the big thing is Rory, the gallery moves a little differently. And it made me wonder if he now has... The conch, as they said in Lord and the Flies, the conch, is that what it was called?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Two straight double bogeys down the stretch. Suboptimal. House, how did we get here where he's the number one gallery guy? Because it was Tiger forever. And if Tiger was here, it would still be Tiger. And Rory, when you see him in person, he's jacked. He's not gigantic. Nice little Irish guy, but the fans fucking love him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you're going authenticity, which is a big term in the mid-2020s. They say that. People think Rory's authentic. Turns out authentic wins.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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And by the way, The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com slash RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus presidents like states. Game and problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up, I am still at the Masters. We're going to talk a lot about golf and we're going to do some NBA at the top.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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More terrible Rory putts and shots today or more meals for you today? What was the bigger number? Meals, for sure.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So Rory's improbably a clear number one. I feel like Tiger had that spot forever. Mickelson was in there for a little bit. For a little bit.

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If they go a little smaller, they can get bullied. They can't guard anybody's perimeter, point guard, scoring guard type guy. It's a mess. And I just don't think they're any kind of threat whatsoever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He had it a little bit. It's a pretty small group of people in general. But I asked you who you think the top four is right now for gallery, just watching the way the gallery moves. And when you're at the Masters... especially when the tournament starts, people, they'll go two holes ahead anticipating when the person's coming. They want to get like a good spot so they can get as close as possible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Or you'll have the gallery just following, which is like you said today when Tiger's in the Masters when he was playing, it was like two separate tournaments happening. It was like the gallery following Tiger. 25 deep. And then everybody else who's also in the tournament. Right. So it's interesting to watch. And the number two guy on my list, I was pretty surprised by it. It's Bryson. It is.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like, clearly unquestionably. And I got to say, he's edging closer to the Rory spot than I thought. And people, so what is it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But he's not crushing the ball like he did four years ago, like as far, right? It's...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's matured. He's still hitting the piss out of it. But not like, we'll never see it again like it was a few years ago. I mean, it's interesting the way you lay it out. It's like, it's basically the Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We knew this because you had a first-half bet on Minnesota. I did. Yeah, you played that perfectly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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What a disappointment. When you think where that team was three years ago versus where they're heading going forward and what their assets are.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The most interesting thing they have going is, oh, John Morant, he's doing a grenade now. He was doing the gun before. Now he's doing the grenade celebration. It's like, how about play some fucking defense, Ja Morant? How about that? Why don't you guard somebody?

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If you got the fourth pick in the draft, would you trade Jordan Poole and the fourth pick for John Morant?

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Unbelievable stuff. Everybody loves a comeback. Beefy Bryson and Beefy Nathan. When do we eat again? Do we eat for the next podcast segment? No, I'm going to need that. Nathan and I are both going on a diet after this week.

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He was housing Bojangles last night, dipping in a ranch, eating... The rice thing Chang made late? At 1.30 in the morning. I'm feeling great.

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Unbelievable. We come back from a party and we're kind of hungry and Chang's just there making stuff. He's like... Chang's the true hero. He's a bigger hero than Scotty Scheffler.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So, does our fourth master's together? At least, yes. Anything different? Anything better or worse? Because I think the thing that always strikes me is that I get the exact same feelings, vibes every time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He'll forever hold that against Russell Henley. This is an old guy thing for me. I don't know how we started involving young kids into professional sports. Everyone has kids. Congratulations. You had a kid.

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We have kids now taking shots in the par three, these people that are waiting. Everybody's like, here are my kids. Whiffing it into the water. They're not even good. Here are my four kids. I actually wonder, did anybody who had their kids in the par three yesterday play well today? No, that's... I bet Justin Rose didn't have his kids out there. Maybe he did. Bryson doesn't have kids. That's right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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When you have little kids like that, and we've all had little kids, you're just constantly worried they're going to do something stupid. When they're six, five, seven... And you have them out in a group of public people like I would have been terrified of Ben. Ben would have like run into the freaking water and jumped in.

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As my friend Polly Walnuts once said, remember when is the lowest form of conversation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I just wanted something to be grumpy about. I love the masters. Less kids. I didn't fly here to see other people's kids. Yeah, how about this? Don't go. You don't have to go to part three. Well, we did it. We only saw like one hole.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Except he's too tall. All right, so you guys, when are you doing the next Fairway Rolling?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You should both bring your kids in to chip in on the podcast. It'll be like the par three. Definitely not doing that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know what's funny, though? You're going to be doing that at the same time your son is watching Clippers Warriors for playoff position, and his head might explode. You might be cleaning up shrapnel of his head. Well, that'll be an interesting way to bring him into the pod, then.

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Yeah, I get it. Well, so Ant has grabbed, and we knew this happened already, but Ja had that cool young on the rise superstar spot and Ant grabbed it and was awesome tonight. Now, who knows? This could flip around, but Minnesota plays Brooklyn and Utah at home. Two teams that don't want to win games anymore.

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That's part of my job. I convinced Chang's wife to have another kid. I'm just... Lord have mercy. It's all about the kids. All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks. All right. Taping this part of the podcast with David Chang, Cousin Sal, James, Baby Doll Dixon, one of the biggest celebrities here at the Masters this week. Sal, what were the highlights other than we... So let me set the scene.

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You don't have your phone at the Masters. Mm-hmm. And if you're with a group of people, the goal is don't get separated from the people. It's the worst thing you can do because you have no way of contacting them. So you take it from here.

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So we picked this spot. We're like, we're going to be there three o'clock. And then we're going to move. And you come back. You meet us with house. And it's me and Chang and Nathan. You don't have baby doll. And I immediately panic because I'm like, this is it. This is now a kidnapping movie. We might never see him again. We've turned in our phones. So we have no way. He doesn't have a phone.

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His phone's with my phone. And it's just a complete mess. And how late were you, baby? And when did you actually show up? Let's see. And why did you feel like you had to buy more stuff? It was shopping. Yeah. You spent almost $5,000 on stuff this trip, right?

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Worst case scenario, they're going to be a seven seed unless there's some sort of massive collapse. Golden State is at Portland, home for the Clippers next two. So Minnesota could potentially climb to six. Where they'd play the Lakers, potentially. I assume the Lakers, they play home Houston at Portland. I don't know. This is so... I feel stupid even bringing up all the matchups.

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Well, then the other thing that happened today was more your fault because... How was this my fault? I mean, I almost got tasered. Well, let's see if we're talking about the right... We were able to get... Well, we were able to get access to this special pro shop that's like for members only because somebody slipped us a badge. So a couple of us went in to see if there was anything.

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Yeah, we earned the badge. Yeah, you did TV today for ESPN. I wasn't invited. Um... But baby comes out with another bag of stuff. And what happens next, Chang?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I want to get into that. But in this case, it was a pretty mild-mannered one. You just took the bag and you whipped it into a roped-off area.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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To a place where there was a suddenly pissed off security guard wondering why that happened. Fully restricted area. And then multiple people came over. No, no, no. He threw it over the head of the security guard. Yeah.

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That's what happened. So then baby's trying to get the bag back. They're deciding whether they want to kick us out or not. And Sal thinks this is all hilarious.

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Well, the number one thing I ever saw you do to baby doll was Jimmy's wedding. Oh. Which was a great weekend and just a really lovely night. And everybody had a great time. And near the end, we're all talking. We're in the corner of wherever the giant reception is. And we're talking. I think you're smoking. Of course. And they're bringing the cake out.

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And it's the three of us and Louis and I think Jimmy. And they're bringing this giant cake out. And they're walking by us. And we see the cake. And you just know from knowing the cuz for 15 years.

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And Sal's watching the cake. Tongue in cheek. Sal Strong went to the side of his mouth.

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And you put it together and you just jumped sideways right as Sal was about. It was one of the greatest athletic moves I've ever seen.

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As Sal was about to try to push you, and then Jimmy admitted after, it would have been worth it. Even if you ruined the cake, the story would have been better.

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It's one of the great what ifs in wedding history. I did a Jedi mind trick. I didn't even touch you that time.

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If Baby had blown out his Achilles jumping sideways, would that have made it funnier or less funnier?

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My point is, if it's 2-7 and it's Houston, Minnesota... First of all, that's an awesome series.

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It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we launched the Zach Lowe Show this week. He did three episodes. You can watch them as video podcasts on Spotify. You can listen to them wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch it on Zach's YouTube channel that we launched as well. So check it out. I might pop on there. Next week, FanDuel Sportsbook.

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Second of all, there's definitely going to be some sort of altercation. Altercations. I don't know what it'll be, but there will be an altercation.

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When do you think the cuz is peak of fucking with you? What was the peak year? If he was an athlete, what would you say?

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I remember when I started working for Jimmy show and you were so legendary for fucking with everybody. Yeah. And then we went to San Diego for that Super Bowl thing. And I stayed in a room with you and people were like, you're staying in a room with Sal? And I was like, yeah, what's the problem? They're like, oh, good luck. Don't fall asleep.

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And then by the time we went to bed that night, I was sufficiently nervous. It was like I was in Shawshank waiting for fucking Boggs to come get me. I didn't know what was going to happen, but you left me alone because I think I was the new guy. You probably didn't think about it.

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You and I have had this. We've known each other since 1988. We never like to bet a playoff series where we don't have the best player in the series. Houston, Minnesota, 2-7. The 17 would have the best player in the series.

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But this is the side, like people know Sal on my podcast from Guest Alliance and we've been together forever, but they don't know this other side of Sal as much. Right. I see. I think the best Sal story is the security camera on J.K.L. in the outside of Jimmy's office when our friend Brad started choking on a sandwich, which he would choke from time to time because he doesn't have all his teeth.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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But he started choking and he waved over. Our friend Scott. Scott comes over. It starts performing the Heimlich on Brad, who's choking to death. And instead of being concerned, you could see Sal in the back of the footage running over, grabbing his phone and videotaping Brad choking to death. Instead of helping Brad. Two things I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Well, Chen cooked dinner last night. We had some Fando people over some other people. It was very fun. And for some reason, Baby decided to give a toast.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Baby was very social for about an hour and a half and then disappeared to make a one and a half hour business call at nine o'clock. and was just gone the rest of the night and then claimed, I was very social. I was. I talked to everybody.

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The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Now, Houston has a bunch of awesome defensive players and athletes. They do. To throw at that best player. They could. Not only do they have Ahmed Thompson, who's been coming on like a freight train. I think it has to be heard from in all defense. Tremendous. Not only have Dylan Brooks, who will try to start 19 fights with Ant.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Yeah, he shouldn't be... You know, part of the secret... We've known Baby for a while. He's known him longer than me, but part of his secret is compliments are currency. That's what he does. He always figures out a nice way... to be like just hanging out with Chang one day and be like, you know, it's just amazing everything you've accomplished. That's right. I was talking to somebody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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He probably didn't talk to anybody. I was talking to somebody the other day about just how incredible your journey's been, and it's just awesome to see, baby. Great job, baby. Thank you, baby. And then you feel great, and you're like, you know who I love? Baby doll. I'm a businessman.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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I don't, I mean, they leave and then one person, then they leave. And I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I don't know if you remember that game they had earlier in the season, which was one of the most fun games of the season. They also have Tari Eason.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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So this is like, on paper, the perfect team To just throw dudes over and over again at Ant. So my guess is, because of what I just said about, oh, you never want to not have the best player in a series, there's going to be Minnesota stuff. But I kind of like Houston if that's the matchup.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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He claims it's, I feel like you write it off. Like, what do you do? I don't write it off, no.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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doing that because he today we watched him have a long emotional um reunion with somebody from an old country club that he no longer belongs to yeah that one i i left that was one on long island i i i upgraded so i i didn't need that one of your country clubs has obama in the club yes have you played with obama i did not play with him no i asked him when we were going to play

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Mr. President. You call him Mr. President? Absolutely. I wouldn't call him that. You don't first name?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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This is another segment I wanted to do. This reminds me. Last time we talked about greatest celebrity smokers that you've had cigarettes with. We wanted to do blank canvas if you could have a cigarette top three people you would want to have a cigarette with that you haven't had a cigarette with? Is Obama in the top three? Like you're at the Vineyard Country Club. You see him out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Maybe he sees you out there. I'm going to say yes. So he'd be in the top three?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Oh, I don't even think it was really a closet smoker. I think it was in the Rose Garden, pinching butts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Johnny. You remember me, Johnny. Yeah. Yeah, Carson would be good. Those old 70s Carson shows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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There's not a lot of smokers left. I'll tell you who I smoked. I mean, you had three with Chang last night. of violently coughing this morning. I was violently coughing this morning. But it was more for you, like, I mean, it's a Mount Rushmore cigarette for you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Yeah. He went over, pulled out of parliament and immediately got heckled by baby. Yeah. It was parliament.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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So the honor was mine. So what's the greatest single out of nowhere cigarette you've had with somebody?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Peter Dinklage. Wait, let's see. Peter Dinklage would have been a good one. Queen Cersei? Nope. Jon Snow. Boom.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Yeah, but he was good tonight. He's figured out where he fits in on this Minnesota team from a bully ball standpoint. Memphis went a little small in that game tonight. And he was like, cool, I'm going to absolutely, he does that thing, he keeps banging into you, banging into you, does a little fade away. Or he goes to the basket. I don't know. I do like him going to the basket.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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I remember at Jimmy's wedding, we were out where the food trucks were and the valets, the three of us, for like an hour and a half, just smoking, watching the people come by. And then Sal just started to show up, which I won't talk about. But we had it. It was like an hour. Then my wife, both of our wives were like, where are you? Where are our guys? We were out with baby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Sounds like you need to watch Game of Thrones again. I do. I need to bone up on some of these facts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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After the Tuesday pod, we had some people say, baby should host a smoking podcast for The Ringer. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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I don't know. I mean, you're the artist. Maybe you were so recognized. Maybe you have like video podcasts are becoming more and more popular. Maybe it's one smoke a baby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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There's bad advanced metrics for them in the half court. There's half court stats that are bad. There's crunch time stuff that's terrible. Yes. And that would be the hope if you're Minnesota, is you have a guy who could score, and Houston potentially doesn't. And it's the Fred VanVleet step back. But I don't know, man.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Houston feels like the perfect team to just frustrate Ant, throw all kinds of shit at him, throw little staggered little double teams at him, just get him so that he wants to go into hero ball mode against really good defenders and... It's a really interesting series. So as unexcited as that would be about Memphis OKC or Sacramento OKC or the corpse of Dallas OKC.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Yeah. Nico! Yeah, so then here's the other thing. So it looks like the Lakers are going to be the three seed. Now, they could blow the Houston game on a... They have a home game against Houston who they... I don't know. It just feels like the Lakers... really like where they are right now against most teams. But let's say 3-6 is Lakers-Golden State.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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We're doing 30 on 30 on Fridays where you can bet on 30-point scores for the last Friday of the NBA regular season. I'll be tweeting out my picks at some point on Friday. Coming up on this podcast, Joe House and I stayed up late here on the East Coast to watch Minnesota-Memphis. Minnesota.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

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There was a moment there, though, when it seemed like the show was going to continue with him hosting the show and Larry in retirement.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Were you angry, disappointed? What's the third thing he does? Disappointed? We more insulted, disappointed, or angry when the Larry Sanders thing didn't work out? I was rip shit. What's the most rip shit you've been? Is that number one? No. What's number one? All right. So one through seven involves Daniel Callison, then eight is what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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There was some... Yeah, I know what you're talking about. There was some possible shanking in the works that you found out about. That's all I'm going to say.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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That pissed me off. You said a lot of times. The masters, they have these gnomes that you can get in different parts of the course, and people show up at 6.30 in the morning and try to buy the gnomes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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All-timer. All-time fun first round. Yeah. Just a history series. But we watched this happen two weeks ago, and the Lakers are a really good matchup for Golden State because they can go small. Any team where they can play Draymond at the five is a win for Golden State.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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You want to put them in one of your seven houses. Yeah, I want to display them, of course.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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But here's what's disappointing about... You getting screwed over on the gnome today that he thought he was getting. I'm positive Sal would have broken it at some point. I know you were thinking about it. Oh, baby, let me see what that would have been.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think it's going to be one of the big guns. This feels like a big guns tournament. Like a Schaffler kind of thing? Yeah, just one of the real – this feels like a moment this weekend. And just in general, a crazy sports weekend with this – all this stuff happening in basketball all at the same time. Because God forbid the NBA isn't on a weekend where other major shit is happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I was thinking today, cause I was talking to somebody who hadn't been here before and you know, we're walking the course, there are huge golf fans. Um, and I was trying to explain why I love the masters. It's the only sporting event that's exactly the same every year, but the people have changed, you know, and it goes back so far.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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And you know, I've been here four times and each time it feels the same. The holes are the same. It's still cool in all the same ways. But the really cool thing is, like you said, your first Masters that you remember was like 1970? Yes. Billy Casper won in 1970. I was eight years old. Yeah, so I vaguely remember the 75 one as my first one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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But I just remember Nicholas in the 70s and hoping he would win the Masters and becoming attached to him. But then you just think these different generations just move through. It's the exact same course. there's nothing else really like it. They don't play the World Series or the Super Bowl. Nothing has the continuity. And even in golf, all the tournaments are in different places.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It'll be like, oh, cool, the US Open's in Pebble Beach this year, but it might not have been for... So it's just, I think that's what it is. And even when we were talking in the last segment about seeing speed, And like Spieth is on the 12th hole and you're just like, ugh. Right, right. As they say, tradition like no other.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And they hit these different stages. Like you saw Freddie Couples today. Now he's the old guy. He takes the Tom Watson spot. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Well, and especially like being able to be that close to all these famous golfers. Yeah. Where you could just be like all of a sudden. There's Rory. He's three feet away walking by us. Why is he ignoring me?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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So if somebody wanted to ask you to cook the dinner, that would be your number one dinner you've ever cooked?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Augusta called. I did not like their offer. They wouldn't even pay for a sous chef, baby.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Baby, a pleasure as always. Sal and Chang, thank you. Thanks, bro. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Sal and Babydoll and Chang and House and Nathan. Don't forget to listen to Fairway Rowan on Sunday right after the Masters ends. You can get their recap podcast there. Don't forget about Zach Lowe's new podcast, The Zach Lowe Show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Don't forget that I'm coming back on Sunday night with Rosillo. We're going to wait until after all the Sunday night games and the masters and, uh, and we'll try to break down early preview of the playoff picture and everything we saw over the weekend. I am looking forward to that. Don't forget about Celtic city on max. First six episodes are up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, we just finished the bird error about to go into the nineties on Monday night on HBO. So stay tuned for that and, uh, enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Counter. We're going to have some sort of matchup where you're like, shit, I wish these teams were playing in round one. It's going to be somebody. If Kawhi is healthy with Clippers, that's a fun matchup just period against anybody. And then this Denver team, we were studying the internet video of Denver beats the Kings. Adelman's first game as the interim coach. Gives a little speech.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states. For Kansas, an affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or

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locker room seemed kind of raucous for him after. And it really made me think like it might even been worse than they were letting on just the vibe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I feel like we've had moments. I remember in 06 when the Lakers were up 3-1 against the Suns and then they fell apart and then Kobe didn't shoot in the second half because he was so mad at everybody. That was the year it was supposed to be Lakers-Clippers. Other than that, I don't... I don't think it's ever happened.

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The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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That's another one. Golden State probably feels like they have a more complete team, better bench. They'll just let Jokic have his 35, 15, 12 and take out everybody. Denver, the one thing they did, they started Pickett and played him big minutes and seems like they try to confine Westbrook And he was two for 11 in 17 minutes. Seems like a good idea.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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convincing we're going to talk about that with the west picture looks like for the playoffs headed into the final weekend of the season and then we talk about the masters me and house and nathan hubbard our fairway rolling house we were at the course all day today noticed a lot of stuff we're going to talk about that and then last but not least we had james baby doll dixon on the tuesday pod uh

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But some of the stuff that came out, The Athletic had a piece about how Westbrook was a big lightning rod with Booth. And it sounds like everything was a lightning rod with those guys. But Malone was playing Westbrook too much. The front office was really upset about that. I mean, he's a nightmare in these crunch times.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Where do you stand on just firing a coach in the last month or the last week of the season? Because we did not grow up with shit like that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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If it was all about this was such a poisonous thing, why not fire the GM and then figure out? They must have also felt like the coach had just completely lost the team. It's the only explanation.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think they felt like, you know, we have one of the great offensive players of all time. We're going the wrong way. Can we still salvage this? These West matchups are fucking crazy to figure out. Why not?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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Well, they're announcing this was done the way it was. So at least if we do this, maybe it's not done. But this version is done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Do this is fire the coach, try to change the energy around the team. The energy. Put somebody in there who's actually going to play, you know, the younger guys and not Russell Westbrook. I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Wacky West, Tales From Augusta, and the Baby Doll Chronicles | With Joe House, Cousin Sal, Nathan Hubbard, Dave Chang, and Baby Doll

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making dinner for 20 people so we had the laker game on and we're trying to watch then we caught up on all the highlights but uh i happen to be watching live when luca just started breaking down during that whole you called us all over yeah i couldn't believe it i because i was like is he getting choked up it's not sound on it's not believable i can't ever remember in the history of sports a situation like this with a team i'm talking about dallas not lakers

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A lot of questions from listeners, from people in my life. What's going on with that guy? So we dove into it with me and Sal and Chang and Babydoll, and we went for a full hour with them. So this is quite a podcast. I think we should bring in our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're taping this past midnight on the East Coast because we are here in Augusta, Georgia.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You're listening and watching the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel, our friends, America's number one sportsbook, and they've made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip-off. Just look for the live SGP tab on the FanDuel sportsbook app and build your own bet slip, then sit back, relax, track the outcome of your parlay right in the app.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Luca was either exhausted or hungry. I don't know if we decided. Both. Which one it was. Hangry. Luca hangry. Hangry would have helped him. Indy Cleveland, that's tomorrow night. I have no idea why it wasn't tonight. I have no idea why I only had one game. They should have moved this up once we realized Curry was out. But as I've said many times in the pod, I loved Indy's chances in this series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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We're going to talk big picture, Denver, OKC, Cleveland, Indiana, Game 3, Celtics, Knicks. And that is all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're recording this a little after 8 o'clock Pacific time. Big Waz is here. Joe House was supposed to be here. I think he sprained his MCL. He got injured. Somehow, anytime House is on any other podcast, his Zoom works.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I wasn't positive they're going to win, but I really thought it was going to be a 50-50 series. They won game one. Game two, nobody plays. Mitchell has a heroic 46 minutes and cannot finish. And Indy steals it. And Halliburton has this great moment. And it's 2-0 Indy heading back to Indianapolis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So, Waz, do you have more concern for the Cavaliers or the Boston Celtics, the team I happen to root for?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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FanDuel, because the Pacers are minus 194 favorites and the Celtics are minus 112 favorites. So I think it is way more bleak. One thing with that that I thought was a sneaky piece of the garland thing, I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, He handles the ball for them a ton.

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And Indy's kind of a bitch to play with how they go 94 feet and they just hound you and they really make you work the ball up. And that was one of the things with Mitchell. He had to bring the ball up a lot. And then near the fourth quarter, he's like, all right, I'm done with this. And other people were doing it.

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But I think Indy, it's weird because sometimes you'll watch them, they'll choke games away at the end. And you're like, how did they lose that? Then other times they come late, almost like a boxer. Where it's like, wow, they're down on the cards, but they're throwing bombs right now. Do you like this Indy team? Where do you stand on Indy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, I think, weren't they like 35 and 15? And then what'd they do in the playoffs? Four and one, now they're six and one in the playoffs. So it's something like 41 and 16 in their last 57, something like that.

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Plus, it's Ty Jerome. who's great when he's the Deion Waiters guy in the movie, but you don't want him on the poster necessarily. But you love when he comes in for some crazy scenes, like Tom Sizemore style. But I don't know if I'm building the movie around him. Yeah, look, I still think Indy could have beaten them if Cleveland was healthy. I really thought these teams were pretty even.

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I thought the Halliburton story in The Athletic this week was fascinating. about, you know, you don't hear a lot of players talk about when they get into funks. And it just, like, he did all the stuff, like, we talk to ringer colleagues about sometimes. Like, don't fucking read that stuff. Don't go on these boards. Don't go on your Twitter replies. Like, Ignore all that stuff.

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Nothing good happens in those corners. Don't read it. Don't read it. And Halliburton was like, I was reading everything and I was driving myself crazy from the moment the Olympics happened all the way through. I read everything. I saw every criticism and it got in my head and I started to lose my joy for stuff. And now I cut it out and now I have my mojo back.

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But wow, how many times can you remember an athlete like that openly talking about that? I was kind of stunned.

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Well, I think one of the things with him... You could see it the first part of the season. I didn't vote for Peral NBA mostly because of the first two months. I just didn't think he was good enough. And there was a couple games where you'd watch them some nights and he didn't have the big impact of what you would expect from a typical NBA guy. But he was on the bubble for me.

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But you watch the playoffs house. If I do my pyramid of guys who are left, it'd be a good social graphic. And Jokic is at the top of the pyramid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's never been in the Eastern Finals, so we're doing that. We're taking Curry's four rings.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, the guys right now, the guys who are left. So Curry being hurt, you're knocking them down.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right. So you agree with that, Waz? You would go SGA Brunson on that second level?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Okay, so third level. Can I put Curry in the third level or are we dinging him?

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And then when he's on mine and it's later at night, no Zoom. I'm just going to assume alcohol. That's where I've landed.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Can I do Curry, Mitchell, and Ant in the third level? Where are you going to put Halliburton? That's what I was about to say. Okay. Well, and he's there. I hesitate to say this name right now, given the week that's happened, but Jason Tatum for an MVP.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you put, you put Halliburton with Curry and Mitchell. In the third level.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I talk about it with my dad a lot the next segment. I got rope-a-doped a little bit. Hopefully, maybe it's not a rope-a-dope. Maybe it was just two bad games, but we watched them for four months. And I really believed. And then you saw what happened in the first two games. And now I don't know what to believe. What do you believe?

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I'm not surprised by that. Well, he's got a big lottery coming up with the Wizards on Monday.

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we're going to take a break, not because we need to throw to a sponsor, but because I personally need a break from talking about Jason Tatum. We'll be back in a second. FanDuel is getting you into the action for the NBA playoffs like they always do. Right now, all customers can get a no sweat, same game parlay every weekend.

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Yeah, I want to get your thoughts. I'm talking to my dad later about Celtic Snakes, but I obviously want to get your thoughts as well. We stayed up to watch Minnesota Golden State. I don't know what made me think that this might be a good game. I'll start here. Is Steph actually the non-Yoka MVP when you see what somebody's team looks like when they're not on it?

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified restrictions apply, including token expiration. See terms at sportsbook.fando.com. Get in a prom call with Andrew Gambler or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We all have our routines during the playoffs. I'm the same man who once wore the same t-shirt every single day during the 2003 baseball playoffs.

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Visit MichelobUltra.com slash superior access slash courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and official rules. Message and data rates may apply. Void or prohibited. All right, we're trying to figure out the pyramid of guys who are left and we got a little stuck on Jason Tatum of the Boston Celtics given the week that he's having and Joe House did not have a chance to chime in.

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Is there a more dramatic, oh God, than Golden State without Steph?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I mean, we really have to extend it. So his brain would have to be in his wrist.

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He's been really good, and I don't have an explanation for what happened the last two games, but talk about it later. Well, at least I get my thoughts later. So if we went Pyramid of Guys right now, And the list can move and the list can go up and down. But if we're just saying right now, guys who are playing the best, Jokic, SGA, Brunson, Caliburton, Mitchell.

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And then Curry with an asterisk because he's hurt. With Tatum. Mobley with an asterisk because he's hurt.

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Yeah, if you're talking biggest winners... For the playoffs so far, even though we're barely in the second round. And let's remove the Knicks fan base, the Knicks as a team, the Knicks as they're constructed and everybody who put it together, Jalen Brunson. This has been unbelievable what's happened with them. Halliburton, I think, is up there. And then Aaron Gordon is the other one.

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Lane, sometimes we'll see this, and House and I are older than you was, but sometimes this will happen in the playoffs with these guys who have been around long enough. I remember it happened with Iguodala in 2015. These guys that were never quite first or second team All-NBA.

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Maybe we thought they were going to be slightly better than they ended up being, and then they figured out how to be this incredibly impactful team. Zach Lowe would call them amplifiers of the awesome player. And Gordon now has turned into... Did you think that shot was going in-house, that three? I did. You thought it was going in, right? I did.

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Yeah, he's turned into this clutch, reliable man. I was so impressed in the games I went to against the Clippers. He was just...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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All right, so go little mini pyramid. Jokic, S.J. and Brunson, Halliburton, and Mitchell, and then Curry, Tatum, Mobley, and Gordon for the right now. I'll put him next level. But if you'd shown me that a week ago, And you're like, look at this pyramid you made on Thursday's podcast on May, whatever. I'd be like, why is Tatum so low? And what happened to Curry?

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus. I'm president of select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

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House, what are you seeing in this Knicks-Celtics game? It's a 1230 game on Saturday. Game four is Monday. The Celtics have been better on the road for whatever reason all year. Must win game for them. It's going to be the hottest Knicks ticket, I think, since the 1999 finals. And what do you expect? If I said to you Celtics win in six or seven or the Knicks sweep, which one would you pick?

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They got the game they needed already. So this was the gravy game.

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I texted you and House. And again, RIP House. Apparently couldn't make the pot. But I texted you guys literally five minutes before.

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Yeah, it's alarming. I think they... What was it? They had their worst offensive rating of the year in Game 2? Out of all the games they've played, it was either worst or second worst?

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The thing you said, House, the most alarming piece of this to me is you're like, I don't know what to expect from Porzingis. What's he going to be like the rest of the series? And I think the answer is he's going to be the guy you saw in game two. I don't think he's healthy. I think there's something wrong with him. And I think if it was any other situation, he wouldn't be playing.

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And that's a guy who's 20 a game for them when he's healthy with rim protection, um, and insurance for the top two guys, if either of them are off. And now, now that's gone. Um, you saw what happened to Horford, the more minutes he had to play. And, um, you know, I, teams start getting tight. Um,

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Yeah, because I was like, I wonder what quarter Draymond might try to get himself kicked out of this game. And then he did the swing the arms thing. And Stan Van Gogh, let me get the exact quote. Hold on. I'm not sure there was any intent there. Stan Van Gundy. Stan Van Gundy watching the Dahmer miniseries episode eight as Dahmer's eating somebody's genitals.

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The piece I don't understand is just the settling and the one-on-one stuff and the lack of movement, which I thought they had corrected for the most part over the course of the year. Whereas if something wasn't working, somebody starts moving, one of the guards comes over, they reset whatever they're doing, and now they're just jacking shit up. The assist totals were way down in those two games.

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It matched what you're watching when you're watching it, where it's like just whoever has the ball is going to shoot.

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Which I think is just crazy. Whereas SGA was the opposite. He comes out and he's like, we're not losing tonight. I've got this, guys. Well, here's the thing. My dad and I didn't really talk about this, so I feel like this is a relatively flesh topic. This is a real fork in the road weekend for Jason Tatum.

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Who won the title last year, but then somehow, you know, still didn't get all the spoils and left the summer with as many questions as answers in a lot of ways, which I think was immensely frustrating to him and the team and his coach. And a lot of what was happening this season was them correcting the narrative that he wasn't one of the best players in the league.

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And he was awesome the last four months. And now we're in this situation where they need him the same way the Nuggets needed Jokic in game four. the same way the OKC needed SGA last night, the same way the Warriors needed Curry to play a perfect, really smart basketball game in game seven and just make all the right plays for four quarters.

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That's what's alarming to me, House, is he wasn't making the right plays. He wasn't dissecting the Knicks in the way that he was doing all season and even in the Orlando series.

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Or Holiday or Porzingis. It's clear that the short window of this is basically a two-year run with the group they had last year and this year. And then one of those guys, just financially, I don't feel confident. I don't know which one it'll be. Long-term, they still have a longer window built around Tatum and Brown that they're in the middle of, and they've been in the middle of all decade.

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I'm not sure there was any intent there. You know, who knows with Draymond, but he is in the first team all NBA of swinging his arms into somebody's head.

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But I think this was their best chance other than last year with the contracts, with the players on the team and the quality of the players, with the state of the league. They're never going to be in a better spot than this, right, House?

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That should have been my first warning. Jesus, I wish I had known.

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Well, and, you know, you always want to do the stuff that the defense is overreacting to. Like they attacked Brunson at the beginning of the game with Drew Holiday and then the Knicks switched on that. I've always noticed when they put Tatum at the foul line in that Nowitzki spot, teams hate that when they have the right spacing around him.

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And he's really good at turning around and shooting over somebody, going to the basket, doing a little fall away or finding like a shooter if people are drifting off. That's like, That's become something that's been a really good piece of his game. And actually, Jalen Brown's pretty good at it, too. They weren't really doing that at all in the second half.

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And even I look at that last play where they do the full court all the way down score. Brunson comes back, jukes Drew and gets fouled. Then the Celtics run the exact same play again, and it's the worst play in the history of the franchise. Fucking abomination. Like, I've never seen worse spacing. There's never been worse spacing on a play ever. Five guys all next to each other.

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But I would have called timeout and done that lob to Tatum at the top of the key foul line area and just created that space. That's the stuff. I want to see them start playing chess again, House, because it was checkers in those first two games.

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No, I know. It's just I feel like 15 minutes of him playing decently is what I'm looking at.

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Nobody thought Mitchell Robinson was killing us. Not one person who watched that game was like, oh my God, we can't stop Mitchell Robinson. House, is this the biggest Knicks game that you could remember since... You were in law... 1999? You're out of law school at that point. Easily. That win is the biggest... The Vince Carter Toronto series?

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Because they had that Knicks Pacers series in 2013, but that was... No. It's kind of a done in a series.

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Well, Draymond got the game he needed to win. I guess the bigger question for him is this technical foul tally. that you would figure after 2016, he might be more aware of from a big picture standpoint because now I think it's two more and he gets suspended for the next game. So he's got, I guess, a tech to go to work with.

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I think that Monday game is going to be even crazier. Yeah. Monday nighter. So my dad, who hasn't even been on the podcast yet, he's really hoping for Scott Foster game three. We'll see. The cooler. Yeah, fingers crossed for the extender.

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He was an OKC last night. House, does watching what happened with the Knicks give you confidence with... With your team, the about-to-be-rejuvenated Wizards? He said, who the Capitals? Well, you got the lottery on Monday night.

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Well, hopefully you'll get one of the Rutgers guys. Cause I think that team went 12 and 20 last year. Those guys winning legacy of that one NIT game. They won. Um, I I'm very excited for the, for the ladder before we go. Okay. See Denver really quick. Do you see anything in those first two games was that makes you think, okay, see is not one in this series.

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Yeah. Well, the, you tell me, would you have it above anything you ever saw from Kobe?

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I ignored it. No, because I said on the pod, I left that Clipper game and that was the best game I've seen anyone play in person since Michael Jordan. Maybe LeBron in the 2012, that crazy game he had in game 6 in Boston. But it was like at that level where it was like, holy shit. This is insane that somebody is this good at basketball. So it's

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For me, it was in that area, which is, you know, House has known me a long time. I don't throw that around.

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I was on Termini and Eddie's show yesterday, and this was when they hadn't lost to OKC yet, so they're up 1-0. I said, if he somehow put this together and won four straight rounds... And went through that Clippers team in round one. The 68 win OKC team in round two. The Wolves who owned them. Gets his revenge against Minnesota, who's been his bully for two years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And then takes out pick an East team. And that's the gauntlet. That's like the best runs we've had the last 30 years are probably the Dirk 2011 run. when it was like Durant and Kobe, and then LeBron and Wade in the finals, and there was somebody else good too. And then that Hakeem run, the famous Hakeem run, when he beat every great center in the league, including Robinson, who won the MVP.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I don't think it's going to happen because I think OKC is so good. But if it did happen, I think it would immediately go in that shortlist. Right, House? That would be the territory.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, it moves him. Yeah. It elevates him another level. I thought just even getting through that Clippers series was... Shocking to me. Was any any farewell words for James Harden that you didn't use on the group chat pod?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I agree with them. Kaminga in this game tonight. Did you ever own property on Kaminga Island? Did you look? Would you go on Redfin and check out some houses? What was your plan there?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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House, you didn't get to give your James Harden thoughts on my podcast. I know you have them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, I hope we're talking about Jason Tatum favorably in eight to nine years. We'll see what happens this weekend.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You're going to be on the bench waiting to get your wings and they're never going to come. And then every six times they will. So do you think they should cut as the moment the guy gets bounced from the playoffs, we never see him in another commercial?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, the thing with House is the food commercials really hit home for House because he gets hungry every time. Well, every time I feel like- So if it's a wing stop, House immediately gets excited for wings, but then there's Jalen Green and now he's not excited.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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House, do you feel vindicated that all the Suns fans revile Bradley Beal?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Two more years of the contract when we're doing worse contracts in March. I'm already excited for whatever Brooklyn has in store for us this summer. There might be a very fun Ty Jerome overpay that might be able to make the list. Wow. Embiid, I would guess, would be the number one guy on the list when we do this. I mean, it's still 10 months away, but where's contracts?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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One of the most fun days of the year. All right. We're going to take a break and come back with my dad talking Celtics next. Waz, great to see you as always. House, thanks for logging in on your 2016 laptop. It was great to see you as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Double-edged dildo in 10% chunks. Good one to end it on as we head toward talking about Celtics Knicks for 44 minutes. Watson House, thanks again. All right, taping this part of the podcast. It is 4 o'clock East Coast time. My dad is here. We did not talk after yesterday's game. It's very rare.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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when we don't even talk or text after a game, and I finally texted you about 90 minutes after, and we just swore at each other a couple times about how bad the Celtics were. You went to both games. You were there, you were in your seat, you'd been going for 52 years. We were, I think, minus eight or 900 favorites to win the series. And they took huge leads in both games and blew the games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And yet game two felt way worse than game one. What was it like sitting there and watching the season unravel?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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I think the craziest part of it is the Knicks had, I think, their worst offensive game just by offensive rating of the entire season. They played pretty well, especially Brunson was really good down the stretch of game one, and I thought they really took the game. The one last night was just all self-inflicted wounds, some very strange coaching, which I'm excited to talk about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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No, let's go backwards. Cause. Okay. Um, I mean, there's a couple things, a couple big pictures thing here. First of all, I can't remember a Celtics playoff thing like this. I was trying to think of a series where I just think they have clearly a better team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And history would show because no team has ever blown 20-point leads, I don't think, in the same playoffs, much less back-to-back in the same playoff games. It felt like they were getting all the shots they wanted and they just missed open shots. There was that screenshot somebody had that was going around social media of Tatum in the corner with like 340 left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Brown's under the basket and Brunson's fell down. He's on the ground. And Tatum just has a wide-open 25-footer. He could have also just passed it to Brown. and it was a brick, but it was turning, and I don't know what it felt like being in the building. It felt like every time we took a three, I didn't think it was going in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was 73-53 at one point. Then it was 16 points in the fourth quarter and the Knicks weren't playing well. Right. You know, and just there's some strategy stuff I want to talk about later. But fundamentally... These two Tatum games were just atrocious.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And it's weird because then all this stuff starts up again today about he's not actually a superstar and the national media can come in that isn't watching the whole season. They're not there week after week watching what we saw. I really bought in. I thought he went up a level. We talked about it a bunch. There was a level of dissection there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and kind of artistry to what he was doing the last four months of the season in the Orlando game where I really felt like he was solving equations on the fly. He was making the right plays. He could be point forward. He could score. He had just figured out the balance. I really believed he had figured it out. And then the guy that we watched, especially in game two,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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was the guy from the 2020 playoffs and the 2022 later in the playoffs. Like it was like he reverted and you said you thought it was the worst game you'd seen him play in person in a couple of years, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You know where he's, here's how you why you should be excited. If somebody on his team who's really important gets injured and he has to play minutes by default, it becomes exciting because he walks out there and he's like, finally, I get to battle with Anthony Edwards, my peer. Nobody but me and Anthony wonders or understands what we have as a connection as rivals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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We needed points. But what's been weird about it is the whole year he was getting so good and I felt like it was getting better in real time over the course of the season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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of him being like, Oh, you're, if I can switch and get this guy on me, I'm going to go right by him and get to the basket or I'm going to get to the paint or I'm going to find, he started to develop that little shot around the foul line, right? That little 14 footer. And he, he was just really putting it together. And then this turned into the old, all the old Tatum habits came back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And I don't know what you think it was pressure. Like what was going on? Did the guys look nervous? What was happening?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, he was getting rebounds at least. He was playing defensive rebounds. Oh, no, he was getting rebounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Coming up, we're talking basketball and we're talking some Celtics. Is it over? All next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We put up a two-part Star Wars rewatchables on Monday. You can watch the whole thing on YouTube on Ringer Movies or you can watch this video podcast on Spotify. We're sticking with the 70s all month. I think that's what I've decided.

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You're talking about offensively, you never noticed him involved?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It started to seem like he was going to have a good game because he was kind of punishing. He was trying to take heart down low early.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then by the end of the game, I think he, his stats ended up being awful.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Okay. It's hard to hold off. Last year when the opponents were a little easier based on injury luck where the league was, there were still some nut crunch games when you never felt totally comfortable offensively. And it was still a lot of this your turn, my turn. Things would get a little stagnant. The difference was Jalen, I thought,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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there were a couple of games when he just athletically really seemed like he could get to the spots he wanted. He was really in complete command. And they had the Porzingis piece too, where they're, you know, they didn't have them in the entire Dallas series, but you was this extra 18 to 20 bonus points you were getting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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But when I think back to last year, there was that Indiana game that you went to that, uh, Brown hit the three in the corner to send it to OT. That felt a little like these Knicks games where it was like, ah, We're getting stagnant again. And then we lucked out, got in overtime. And then the other one was the one I went to in Dallas, game three, when Luca fouled out with five minutes left.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And all of a sudden it was sitting there for... Kyrie is going to really kill us and bring this series back. This is where the last seven years have been leading to Kyrie bringing Dallas back and 2-1 and we're going to fall in all the bad habits. But then they actually held Dallas off and won that game. And Brown had a couple of big plays and it was like, ah, finally got over the hump.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And now it feels like we're back in the other side of the hump again with this team. And that's the part I don't understand. We should be getting better, not worse.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And he just goes head to head with them. Did you think even without this Curry injury, did you think Golden State had a real chance in this series?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah. He had five, five assists, five field goals. So he created, he created 20 points. And this is a guy who, when he's really humming, he's at like 28 points, eight assists, 14 rebounds. And he's just kind of involved all over the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I actually liked how he was rebounding and kind of fighting. And it felt like they were trying to establish Jalen. Then Porzingis came in. It's like, we got to try to get him going a little bit. Pritchard took a bunch of shots. And I thought maybe he was biding his time. And that was the wrong instinct. Does first team all NBA guy bide his time in a must win game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's a tough one for, I think a lot of the Celtic fans were really defensive about him this year because we were watching game to game how good he was. Yeah, he had a great season. And then the casual fans come in or the people that aren't watching all the time and they see this version of it and they're like, that's why he got benched in the Olympics. This is why he's not a superstar.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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This is why he's not at the same level. But then you watch like Jokic in game one against OKC put up the 42-22-6. You know, you watch Shea respond in a game two. He's got 34 points in three quarters. And it's like, that's the level, that's the swimming pool you're supposed to be in, buddy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Our guy didn't, at least offensively. Well, it's tough for him when they keep showing the two, you didn't see cause you were at the game, but there are two commercials. They just keep showing a Tatum. And then meanwhile, he's sticking in the game. I mean, there's some other issues that Robinson, the plus minus numbers with him have been really good when he's out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I still don't understand why Tatum's not just getting him in a switch and then torturing him every time. I don't understand. But he's been effective. And then McBride has been, I mean, he only had five points yesterday, but at least when they know they can put him out there and he's not going to be bad. So they have seven guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And as we know, you need seven guys in a playoff series to be able to win, and they have seven at least.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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But he's at least a body that they know they can throw out. And they're playing all these other guys, you know, pretty big minutes. And then Hart is the kind of guy that has always hurt the Celtics, this version of the Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, he's around the ball. This isn't, especially without Porzingis, It's kind of a group rebounding Celtics team, and Tatum's the best rebounder in the team by far at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But the Porzingis thing's a huge piece because it has that staggered effect of it's not just bad that they're not getting the points and the extra minutes from him, but then it's pushing more minutes on Horford, who you tell me what he looked like in person. It looked like he was luggage last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So that's the coaching stuff. That was one of the things. Because I noticed this in game one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You could talk me into the three guards with Tatum and Brown versus relying on Horford as much and making Tatum almost like the undersized center and trying to attack the Knicks that way because then it becomes... When they're trying to get a switch on Brunson, they're just trying to get Horford on Brunson every time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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If Pritchard out there, they're probably going to settle on Pritchard guarding Brunson, but I just like that matchup more. And then he gives them spacing on the other side that's just better than Horford. And I don't feel like they're losing... How many rebounds did Horford have yesterday? Four. You're not losing. You're losing a little rim protection. That's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And no Hauser either, who sometimes will have the two threes in the second quarter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Before we blame Zulip, Do you take any blame for bringing your brother Don to this game? Because I can't say he's great luck over the years. I thought it was a bold move. I don't know what the other choices were, but Don gets super tense during these games. And I can't even imagine what he was like yesterday during this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, I was watching with your favorite granddaughter and when we're up 73 to 53 and she's like, well, they bounce back and I'm like, just wait. I don't trust anything that's happening right now. Let's just wait.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, and they're acting like they're four. Yeah. I was trying to think before we talk about Missoula. I can't remember another Celtics playoff team since you had the tickets. that I felt like was clearly better than the team they're losing to. And I don't mean that as like sour grapes. Like the Knicks, like we've seen this, this happens in football all the time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Like part of playing the games is this is why you play the games and somebody's got to win and you can overachieve or you can just band together. Like, and the Knicks made all the plays down the stretch and they deserve the two games. But this is also the worst the Celtics can play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And I don't remember the only, you know, I remember in 1973, Havlicek hurt his shoulder and the series got blamed on that. 1982, Tiny hurt his shoulder and they lost to Philly and series got blamed on that. I don't, even if you go back to like 2018 when they lost the game seven to LeBron that we went to, And then nobody could make a shot, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And then you leave the thing and you're like, man, we couldn't make a shot. But they still had LeBron. They still had the best guy in the game. It was still amazing that the Celtics were in a game seven in the Eastern Conference Finals. That Miami game we went to in 23, the game seven when they came back after the white miracle shot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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and then Tatum hurt his ankle like a minute in, and the game flipped. Miami still kicked their ass, and Butler was still really good, and Tatum was hurt. There were reasons for it. I can't come up with reasons for this. I can't come up for this team that was built as this offensive machine that wins 75% to 80% of its games just shitting the bed like this two games in a row.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Couldn't stop Mikael Bridges, who I don't think took three shots in the first three and a half quarters of the game. And then all of a sudden they're running plays for him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He was six for 18 to finish the game. And I think he made three in a row down the stretch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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He abused Holiday on that last play, the go-ahead basket, because he knew it was going to him. And usually, I'm going to trust Drew more than anybody in the league on that play, and he used him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Okay. He kind of overcommitted to the move, and then he grabbed him as he went behind, but...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then you get to the final two minutes and you get one foul and then the second foul and you're good to go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No, trust me. It made zero sense. I didn't understand it. I didn't understand what was happening. And we're just putting fouls on random Celtics for no reason. Especially like if you think OT... I'm looking at the, well, I guess we had some fouls to give. Nobody was in major foul trouble.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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No. Hamstrings, calves, groins. And they always do the at least a week or at least 10 days. And it's... you know, it's never, it's not good. It's too bad. But on the other hand, here's the thing. He's 37 years old. They just had this war against the Rockets for seven games, right? And that game seven is worth a game and a half of playoff kind of minutes intensity.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I didn't get it. And then he, so they run the play to Tatum to go up one. Good play. Next score. And then he does a call timeout and runs the exact same play. Yeah. Which the Knicks are like, oh, you're going to run this play again. We're going to do this this time. And the spacing on that last play, somebody screenshotted it to me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It's one of the worst plays in the history of the Celtics franchise.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Oh yeah, I sent it to you. Tatum goes left. He takes three guys with him. There's four other teammates on the court. Three are on the baseline and one is standing near him in the paint. So there's two Knicks that just have to guard four guys and then three guys can jump on him. They have nobody come to the top of the key. White is just hanging on the baseline, but he's not cutting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And Tatum could have found him underneath the basket. And everybody's just kind of standing there. I don't even know what they're watching. And maybe that's why you don't take the time out. And like, I'm sometimes I'm don't call time out, just go. You got the momentum of the thing, but coming off a free throw, I don't know.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I'd much rather call a timeout, save the three seconds, bringing the ball up. Like they ended up taking the time out in the locker room.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I would have too. Especially, I would have called timeout. I would have done a final play with the three guards, Tatum and Brown. Had better spacing and really tried. Your whole season is on the line. You're down one.

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Well, they have, there's, you know, one of the plays they run from time to time that I always really like is when they pin Tatum on the foul line. And they almost like lob the ball into him. And then basically he has this foul line post up that he can either spin, try to go to the basket, get fouled. And he's a good free throw shooter.

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I'd much rather, and then you have the right spacing around him. It's really tough for a second guy to jump over. And then if a second guy comes over, now he can kick it out to somebody.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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No, I think the best quality that he has is also the worst quality. He likes the test. He likes seeing... It wasn't the game... for the test. But you know what I mean? He likes when his team is challenged. I'm sure he was watching the game yesterday like, this is great. This is going to make us better down the road that somebody's throwing haymakers at us like this.

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I know, but now they're down 0-2 in the series. Now you're playing... Also, it's a Saturday afternoon game. It's at 3.30 ET. It's just a weird time.

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Well, also protect the lead. This is something I talked on Sunday's pod with Priscilla about game seven, Golden State Houston. Every time Houston started to crawl back, Kirk called a timeout and he just controlled. He was just like, you guys can crawl back, but I'm not giving you the momentum of like an 8-0 run, a 9-0 run. It's never happening.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Every time I feel like anything's happening, I'm cutting it off. And the Celtics, it's way more, I hate to use this word because in the wrong context, it's you know, it's a little insulting, but there's been an arrogance to the Celtics team that comes out at the worst possible times where it's like, this is who we are. We shoot threes. We don't need a timeout.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It's like a, it's like a three, it's like 150% of a game, right? And then he immediately gets hurt in game one of the next series. And that's what happens when you're relying on 40 year old LeBron and 37 year old Steph Curry. And you're relying on guys who have played a million playoff games is the variance becomes a little dicey. Right.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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We can just get Tatum going to the basket. We're just going to play Horford because this is what we do down the stretch. And I really think Pritchard should have been out there for at least one of those games over Horford.

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I thought the biggest sin of either game was the last two minutes of game one when especially Tatum was just jacking up threes over trying to get to the basket. Just trying to get in the paint. Including that one he took with like a minute left. Yeah. That was just awful as he was taking it. And he had Mitchell Robinson on him. And he can just go by that dude every time. And we've watched him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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What was the regular season for? This is what he learned during the regular season is just go by those big guys. You're going to be able to get by them. Finish at the rim. He's also blowing layups too. We missed a bunch of layups yesterday and a bunch of layups in game one.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So that's the question because like Fando has the Celtics still favored in the series, right? And the question is, are they really going to shoot that badly a couple more times. I feel like the Knicks are going to have at least one game out of these next five where they're awesome. You know, and Towns goes seven for 10 from three or Brunson has 45 points.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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They're going to, the Knicks have a good game in them that they're going to win. So at the very least, you're looking at a seven gamer. They have to win one of the next three, the Celtics or they go home. And then you got to win three in a row, basically.

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Well, so there's a couple other things at stake, big picture, that we just have to acknowledge. The Knicks, New York, the Celtics have won all these titles. The Knicks haven't won one in 52 years. Um, the Knicks have the last kind of great playoff moment they had against the Celtics was that 1990 game that you and I went to and Bird missed the dunk and Ewing hit the three in the corner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Um, they're, they had some good ones in the early seventies. They won a couple of series, the 84 Bernard versus Larry. It's Celtics win that one in game seven. Um, but then there's this whole, a lot of Knicks fans are also Yankee fans. And there's really since the, Oh, for the comeback, um, And now it feels like the Knicks knocked the Celtics out of nowhere where they're doing four or five.

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And now all of a sudden the Knicks fans and the New York fans, and we know a lot of them, all of a sudden get their swagger back. I'm dreading that more than anything, even though I like the Knicks fans.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Uh, the whole ending of the game was when you left, did you think you were going to see the Celtics team again?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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The early start on Saturday, I don't know if that's good or bad. The crowd's going to be great. But the good thing for the Celtics is there's going to be a lot of money in that arena and it might be a lot of... Maybe not, won't be as quite as raucous of a crowd as normal.

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Not Mark Davis. Give me your top three referees you don't want to see. I don't know. Your guy Foster's back. Yeah, we haven't seen him. He was injured for two months.

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Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, he's good when you're down in the series. Yeah, it's got Boston.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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So if they blow this series, do you feel like this then gets tied into last year and people start the whole thing of, well, the only reason you won last year was because everyone was hurt and you got lucky. And then the league got better this year and you didn't show up. I do feel like it opens, I don't personally believe them, but it opens these storylines. Tatum, see, this is why he got benched.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It's coming off of free throws, though. You called timeout at that point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You know what you definitely don't do is don't call a timeout and then run the exact same play. Even Tibbs in the press conference after was like, yeah, we figured they were probably going to try to run that play again. It's like, yeah, I bet you did. Do you blame the new owner, Bill Chisholm?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, and if you're going to run the same play, you have to have, somebody's got to pop up to the top in case he gets trapped or doubled.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Do you have the proper animosity for the Knicks after watching them two games or is it like a likable opponent?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Yeah, but that's where you need Tatum to basically point center it a little bit or...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Well, we'll see. This is certainly this Tatum era. Are you confident you think we're going to come back to two? This is the first time I honestly don't know what to think because they took all the shots that normally took and none of them went in. And they just shit the bed two games in a row in the last four minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And each of them just might've been these separate flukes that exist next to each other or something's wrong. And the only thing that makes me nervous is the, the Porzingis thing's a real thing. Cause that's that there, there's just a, you know, it's a domino effect of not just that, but the extra whore for minutes. Then you have Hauser. So the rotation all of a sudden got thinner.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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And now when the rotation's that thin, if Tatum's going to suck in a game, now it feels like three times worse because not a lot of backup options, you know? I thought Drew and White played like they were playing pretty hard in that game. I don't expect a ton more from those guys. And I think Jalen's 85%. You watched him all year. He's not as explosive as he was in November. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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You know, It's funny though. I wasn't even that mad last night. I was, cause you know, they won last year. So you got to factor that in. It's like, all right, keep it in perspective. We did win the title last year, but I was, I was more confused. I was just like, I don't, I just spent six months watching this team. What is happening? It was one of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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It was like, if you're just watching TV with your wife and then all of a sudden she starts speaking another language and you're like, what's going on? That, that was how I felt for both games. Like, what are you guys doing?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Best NBA Playoff Guys, Curry’s Value, and the Perplexing Celtics Meltdown With Wosny Lambre, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad

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Joe House. He's just staring. Oh, no, he's in. Choppy internet. This is great, House. You're only on Nine Ringer podcast, but somehow when you come on mine, it's like you're in a log cabin in Sturbridge, Massachusetts.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Sounds like you're going to demote them to second row again. I need to be careful. Dad, I'm going to see you for game seven, Monday night, May 19th. I'll be here. Save my seat. Good to see you. All right, I'll talk to you this weekend. Bye. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Big Waz and House. Thanks to my dad. Thanks to Eduardo and Gahal as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You can watch this as a video podcast on Spotify every single time. We'll be live with Rosillo on Sunday on YouTube. Check out my Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Check out the Star Wars Rewatchables. Don't forget, we got Death Wish coming on Monday on the Rewatchables. Enjoy the weekend. I might not be enjoying it. I guess we're going to find out. I will see you on Sunday.

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Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas and affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit

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We're doing Death Wish on Monday, which is... Just an unbelievable movie with Charles Bronson. So that's coming Monday night. You have the whole weekend to watch it. I think it's on Pluto. It's on a couple of places. So Death Wish coming on Monday night. The Celtics might have a Death Wish. We're going to talk about that later with my dad.

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Can you tell us what year your computer is that you're using? Honestly, give us the year. What year did you purchase that computer? How old is the computer?

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So many articles about the explosion of video pods. And then House calls in on his Commodore 64. Get ready. House, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Waz. After you watch the Warriors game, like tonight, is Curry the non-Yokage MVP compared to guys who actually mean the most to their specific teams?

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Yeah. Well, I think that's it. But you know what's alive? Pat Spencer's facial hair or whatever is going on gimmick-wise. What's going on here, Waz? Can you walk us through? You've seen a lot of looks over the years. I know you've taken some true delight in some different things. Where does Pat Spencer rank?

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Yeah, we might have to get him on the ringer. Here's my next question. When you watch Minnesota, and Minnesota has looked pretty spotty in these two games, right? They're bad in game one. And even tonight, they kind of picked their spots. And, you know, Edwards sprained his ankle in the second quarter and then returned pretty quickly. But, you know, I wouldn't say they look sharp as hell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He was at game one and game two and he gives us his in-person scouting report. Coming up first though, Big Waz, Joe House, we're back. We haven't had the three of us together on a podcast since our worst contracts draft, which I sent to the Pulitzer Committee. It didn't get picked, but we're going to talk about Golden State, Minnesota.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So you don't think Pat Spencer and Quentin Post may be bringing the... A game out of him yet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Um, how, so where do you stand on Minnesota? They hurt our feelings because we had a huge bet before the series. You meet Sal and Hanch. We had Minnesota game one, Minnesota for the series. Curry plays 12 minutes and we still somehow lose the game one bet. So I know I'm mad at them still. I don't know where you are.

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You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel has made it easier than ever to see how your bets are doing without even opening the app. Now you can get the latest updates, follow along in real time directly from your phone's lock screen. Yeah. Or Apple Watch. No login required. Just head to your My Bets page to turn it on.

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But Luka and Reeves out there at the same time, it's just really tough when you're playing a slashing kick team like the one today. Plus Butler, there was a couple times he was like, oh, you're putting this guy on me? And he would just go right to the basket. So it's a weird team. I I'm still afraid of them.

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If you talk, I've talked to a couple of former famous players who are all the famous players who used to play are really high in this Lakers team. I think except Barkley, just because they see like the talent and the potential, but I wonder could that end up being this team's legacy? Are we seeing things that maybe aren't quite there, but we're projecting what we think is there?

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Or is this just a team that can't really rebound or defend anybody?

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Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Yeah, I watched the Indiana Laker game with my dad last week. And the one thing I don't think this Lakers team is going to be... And the Pacers wouldn't do it all the time. We were going nuts because we're just rooting against the Lakers. We're just like, spread them out, go to the basket. Spread them out, go to the basket. Spread them out, go to the basket.

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Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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And then sometimes Indiana would just settle for these 26-footers. Like, dude, just go to the basket. You're going to get to the basket. And I think more and more teams are starting to realize this. Just go to the basket. There's going to be nobody waiting for you. We're going to get there. On the Lakers side... Um, I just think LeBron's playing unbelievable. So good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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I just, I don't really understand it. Um, that from an all around standpoint, it's probably, this is the most he's looked like 2013 range LeBron. He was 10 for 15 tonight. It's not like he's taking a shitload of shots and has the ball all the time. He's picking his spots, the defense. He's trying to rebound.

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Can I still be a 40 minutes a game guy in the playoffs? We're going to find out on Sunday. Stay tuned. Coming up on this podcast, Rob Mahoney and I, we wanted to talk about Lakers-Warriors tonight because it was an important game and had a lot of playoff implications. And also just to see those two teams play who they are right now after the trades and what they look like against each other.

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Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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He didn't really rebound tonight as much as he usually has, but the all-around stuff's been really great. I also don't know if that's sustainable when we get to mid-April going every other day. Big picture, neither of these teams wants that play-in game.

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That's just extra miles on the car. That's like, oh, we're going to go... all the way cross country to LA, but on the way, we're going to go this way and stop at the Grand Canyon. Like they don't want to stop at the Grand Canyon. It's just like, we want this trip to be straight as possible. Lakers are four, Golden State is five.

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Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Normally that sounds great, but the T-Wolves are seven, one behind the Warriors in the last column. And then the Lakers are two over them. And the Grizzlies are, who won an amazing game tonight against Miami. It was like, I, it was one of, I watched it. It was one of those, I don't know who's winning this game. And then jaw once again, comes through at the end, crazy shot, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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When it seemed like Memphis was just going to free fall into the eighth seed. And it was like, oh shit. Okay. See Memphis. We have our NBA TV series. I don't need to watch one second of this. We're going for a sweep, but Memphis wins. And now this is a mess. And I don't, I don't know how much you want to do on Western conference playoff roulette, but, uh,

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The only thing I can think is I would just much rather be in that 2-3 area so I don't have to see OKC for a little while. And I wonder, as we get into the final week, who starts getting a little chicanerous, just made up that word, to try to nudge their way. I have my eye on Denver.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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After they lost that Minnesota game, I think they're like, whatever. May the chips fall where they may. If I'm the Lakers, I don't want to see OKC until round three because that's the one team I don't think the Lakers can beat. Do you think I'm crazy? I just don't like that matchup for them in any way, shape, or form.

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Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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They're so good. And Jokic is having the best year of his career. And with six games left, I don't think I'm going to vote for him for MVP.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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I just feel like we're going to be in the high 60s with this OKC team. And it's not... You can't do the thing where... wow, you know, you can put anybody in that top spot. That team's still really good because every game I've watched and all the games I've seen OKC in person, nobody can guard Shea Gilgis-Alexander. No. Nobody in the league.

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I haven't, I saw that against the Clippers game I went to last week. He had a bad shooting game, but he, all the shots were good. They just didn't go in.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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So we talked about that. Plus, White Lotus season finale. And then my old friend Kevin Wilds came on and we talked about, is April the greatest take month? Talked about Will Chamberlain. Talked about a bunch of stuff. And then we did a slew of half-baked ideas. So that's the pod. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, recording this a little before 10 o'clock Pacific time.

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Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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They made him work for everything. He still got all the shots he wanted. He's shaking his head because he's like, I can't believe this isn't going in tonight. With that said, I don't think Minnesota would be afraid of them at all. I'm not defending it, but I just don't think that team has fear of any matchup. I think they would waltz into that series and be like, yeah, sure, let's beat them.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Um, and that's the team they could see. And I think the Clippers know they can play with them because they've had really good games against them. Yeah. Whether they can beat them, I don't know, but they're not going to be afraid of them. So I would, if I'm OKC, those are the two I wouldn't be like super pumped about.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Yeah, and all the advanced stats back it up and they can shoot. And I'm with you. I'm never going to love Randall. But there's a physicality with him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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But there's a physicality with him lately that I think there's a little bit more of an identity to the team as a whole when you watch them. Where they've got size, identity, and Ant is just... There's no player on any other team that he doesn't think he's better than for better or worse. And that's just the way it goes. I...

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Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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I thought Denver, Minnesota, I thought that other night I had already put my pot up with Zach on Tuesday before those two games. And to watch Curry and Jokic do that back to back, I know you guys talked about it in your pod, but just that five hours of two of the great offensive players in the history of the league really, really having a night. And it just was all in a row.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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And it got to the point with the Nuggets and it seemed like so many different times they had that game or they were going to lose that game. And then it really seemed like they had it. And then Russ, Who? is just wandering around with a fucking pitchfork ready to just stab somebody with it. If you see it in these crunch times, you're just terrified.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1572.345

He's the Texas Chainsaw Massacre guy if you're rooting for Denver. But he's not even doing that. He's stabbing himself.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1580.291

It's a disaster. He was already horrible in the crunch time overtime section where there was eight times where you're like, just take him out. You're better off just not having him out there. He just didn't have it. And then he has that stretch in the last 10 seconds. And it was one of those games where you're like,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1598.032

when we get to game 82 and Sunday and we're trying to figure out all the playoff matchups, I feel like we're going to go back to that game and be like, remember that stupid game when Russ screwed up the Denver game. And now, now Denver's in the, in the four spot playing the Lakers and the four or five, and then the loser or the winner plays. Okay.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1615.499

See, and they could have been three and played Houston around too. And just felt like one of those. And conversely, Minnesota who, if they can get to, uh, Even if they're in the 7-8 and they can get that 7. But I just want to play Houston. That's where I've landed with all these things. I want to play Houston. I want to play Memphis.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1634.391

Those are the two teams that I just think are a level below all these other ones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1647.415

Yeah, it's like they'd have to drop two more it looks like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1687.873

Yeah, and the other thing that really helps Houston is their half court in the last six, seven, eight minutes is pretty brutal. It can be. But against Denver's defense, it doesn't have to be that brutal.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1703.322

Well, those guys, they're going to have their team, hopefully, in this last week. Russ, I just can't imagine he sees crunch time again. You can't do it. It's too risky. Probably not. They play the Warriors on Friday night. Yeah. They end the season with the Rockets, which could be an all-time... Wait, what are these two teams up to? We're just guys...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1724.051

One team's just scratching multiple starters right before we go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1737.04

I haven't checked the schedule. Did that work? But didn't they do the non-games and then the important games? Didn't they stagger them in some way?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1751.751

Well, so then the other piece is this Dallas Sacramento Phoenix factory of sadness and Portland somehow still alive, even though they've, they're just like, can we just get Cooper flag? Oh no, we want to get Dallas at 38, 39 Sacramento, 36 and 40 and Phoenix at 35 and 41.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1772.166

I mean, I've gotten to the point where I'm rooting against Phoenix cause I don't want to see them in the play in, but I don't want to see Sacramento in the play in either. And I don't, I don't want to watch Dallas at all. I mean, Dallas might host a playing game where the crowd is chanting fire Nico about the general manager as the playoff, as the playing game's going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1791.153

So I just kind of want to get to the final eight and see where it goes. The Clippers thing, the Clippers thing is the most interesting where they land. Cause if that's, that's just, that's just a horrible one, eight draw for a team that goes 69 and 13. Here's your reward. The Clippers they're healthy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1810.534

Yeah, they're healthy for, yeah, I guess today. Wait, before you go, Draymond Green, Defensive Player of the Year. Um, I'm sure that helped today. He had a nice, big, awesome stop. Nationally televised game was all over the place. I thought that was the most, it's the Lakers. He's always a little weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1828.116

Cause I think especially when it was against LeBron and AD and you always felt like he was kind of a tempered Draymond because those were his friends and he wasn't doing like usual Draymond shit tonight. He was not tempered. Um, I thought he was very alpha E and looked like the Draymond that we're, we've become accustomed to. Defensive player of the year. Yeah, I think he's going to win.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

183.258

Rob Mahoney is here from the Prestige TV podcast. Oh, wait, you do basketball, too. I forgot. Occasionally, yeah. So we watched some basketball just now. Warriors, Lakers. A game that they used to kind of shove down our throats and we used to like it because Steph and LeBron weren't playing, but they were two ultimately harmless teams. And now they're actual contenders.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1849.978

Is he a defensive player of the year for you? I don't think so.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

19.785

If you don't already have it, download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today. to get in on the action. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus and president in select states. Game problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1904.67

I think it's a great point. Because the other one I was looking at was Lou Dort. I talked about that with Zach. Just separating everything, he's the best defensive player I've seen this year. But they're so afraid to give the perimeter guys that award. But he's done the most interesting stuff on defense for me.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1930.073

It might have. But that was a little bit like this year. This year, I mean, the problem with this year is Wemby should win defensive player of the year every year and he got knocked out. And it's, you know, it's just almost like a political convention where the candidate everybody thought was going to win is out. And now it's all of a sudden there's 10 people arguing on stage. I just,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1952.765

I don't feel like any of these are the greatest possible candidates. No. It's the same thing with Rookie of the Year, where it's like, all right, I guess we got to vote for somebody.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

1974.537

It's the most fun... award subplot since it looks like MVP is a wrap. Coach of the Year is just like, just do a shot and do a whip it and then just pick one of six guys. Is there a wrong Coach of the Year choice? I'm leaning toward Dagnall right now and he's definitely not going to win, but it's like if they win 70 games, I'm probably going to vote for him. Atkinson's good. Bickerstaff's good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

203.225

And it was a fascinating enough matchup with a lot at stake. And we decided to wait until afterwards to do a little pot about it. So what'd you learn? What was your number one thing you learned?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2055.688

Jalen Williams, 65. It's not like this team's been a healthy juggernaut all year. The first two months of the year, they didn't have a center for one of those months. None of it mattered.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2072.197

None of it mattered. Crazy. There you go. Well, for the listeners... You can skip forward from right here if you're not watching White Lotus because I have to talk White Lotus with Rob for one minute. So if you don't care about that, just skip forward ahead to Kevin Wilds because we're going to keep going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2086.607

But if you do care about White Lotus, stick around because I'm going to ask you about White Lotus. 90 minute season finale. Yep. They won't send us screeners. Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin and I are going to be downtown LA watching it live, going live right after on YouTube, have no idea what's going to happen. Is this going to be crazier than we expected?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2106.236

Or is it going to be like weirdly disappointing and more like thoughtful, existential, Buddhist? Like we're going to have like almost like a philosophical religious experience or is there just going to be bodies everywhere?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2154.93

I went back and watched the first scene. Gunshot. Pause. Gunshot. Pause. Gunshot. Gunshots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2169.223

Didn't see any monkeys. Well, I mean, I don't know. They're going Tarantino. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2407.825

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

249.858

I wanted to figure out one thing to overreact to. Yeah. That's what we do on these Thursday night pods after I'm a little groggy. I don't know if the Lakers can rebound and defend at the level you need to be to actually win four straight playoff rounds for nine straight weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

267.122

And that was in the back of my head this whole time that these guys were so talented, the three guys together, that maybe it would have mattered. And then you watch a game like this when they're getting, you know, how many, the Warriors had 14 offensive rebounds. Yep. You know, they were, I wouldn't say hunting different matchups, but they certainly got a lot of threes that they liked.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2715.202

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2846.903

,,,,,,, Well, what's crazy about the 60s, and this is how I ended up deciding to write a Chamberlain Russell chapter when I did my book. When I was doing all the research, so many people weighed in on Wilt. And it was players. It was stuff that never happens now. Like long paragraphs from like Bill Bradley saying, here's why Wilt's a loser. Just laying out like in the book that he wrote.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

289.26

They ended up going 19 for 42 from three. And defensively, they basically was small ball against small ball, which the Warriors are like delighted to do that. So if I'm the Lakers, I'm not too upset because Luka didn't play well, right? On the other hand, I didn't get anything from my bench either. And I really have an issue at center. I don't have, I have Hayes and that's about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2933.615

And you're just like, holy shit. Like people could just never decide who this guy was, whether he won or not. Even Russell was pretty critical of him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

2977.806

That's going to come back because we're in the so-and-so is a problem era of social media. This is how I was thinking about Wilt last week because one of those accounts fed me game six, Bucs-Lakers, 1972. Bucs are defending champs. They have Kareem. Kareem's just killing everybody. Wilt in the last game. Is it the blocks? He's blocking Kareem's skyhook. This was fed to me. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3016.655

Why are we being fed the same stuff? I know. It was the For You. It's the For You tab. They know we like basketball. So this sent me on some deep dive rabbit hole. I went to Basketball Reference. When I did my book, they didn't have the box scores past like 1986. So I went to Basketball Reference and I was like, I got to find out more about this series.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3036.269

It was Oscar Robertson and Kareem on one side and West and Will Chamberlain on the other. So it's four of the best 12 players ever in a series. That seems like a big deal. The Lakers won 33 games that year. Milwaukee had won the title the year before. Kareem's killing everybody. So I went and looked at the stats and it made me even more confused.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3116.559

Well, I read every Sports Illustrated story about it. And it was 2-2 after four games. And then the Lakers won the last two. And one of the keys to the series was Jim McMillan, who struggled with weight during the first part of his career. His teammates called him Pudgeball. But then he lit it up in the series. And I was like, imagine this now. This would be like two days of Jim McMillan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

314.93

And I'm playing Rui and I have this oversized, I have some size, but it goes back to that Mark Williams trade, which is still, you know, could be a sliding doors, what if for the season for them. But if he came into the game today, with what we saw from him after the trade deadline,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3147.084

But the, the league back then, like they just, you know, it was a pretty, it was doing okay. But you have this series that really, if it happened now, it would be this incredible series where you have like some of the greatest players of all time battling like real stakes back to back versus a 33 game winning streak. I didn't know anything about it. So yeah, Will.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3166.67

I have no idea why he stopped shooting. I would watch like a 15 episode Will Chamberlain thing. There we go. If it was done correctly. Start working on it. Because then he did. Start working on it. Then he did. He just quit and started playing volleyball. Like he had that whole stretch. Very interesting. Was he playing professional volleyball? Yeah. Played professional volleyball.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3205.816

Yeah, there was another thing that got fed to me with, it was Wilt Chamberlain when he was 16 playing with pros and he's the same Wilt Chamberlain body, but he's super skinny and just like completely dominating everybody. I think, I think Will's underrated as a Twitter. Cause sometimes young Shaq will have a moment on social media too, where he's just like going full court and dunking over guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3252.392

Yeah, because I'll go to Twitter. And now it, like, defaults to the For You page. But the For You page is getting better. And it's just serving me basketball now constantly. So, like, the other day I went on and it was Kobe – against Rip Hamilton in a 1996 McDonald's all America practice. And it was like, watch Kobe light up Rip Hamilton. I'm like, absolutely. How many minutes is this?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3284.355

Yeah, that's right. Instagram, it gets, they definitely, Instagram is a little gamier with the stuff they push. It's a little seedier. It's like two in the morning, kind of wandering around New York City, kind of seedy. Twitter, they'll push you mostly the sports and then something horrible that you don't have any interest in, like some sort of hardcore political or whatever.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3306.651

But I like the basketball stuff. So what sports storyline right now are you the most fascinated in? What is it? Is it NBA related?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3325.214

How about that there were two different measurements? One was 32 and a half, and then the other was 33, and he's like, I'm actually a 33.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3368.984

Yeah, and there's no answer, so you could just talk about it in circles forever and nobody knows until we see the playoff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3425.79

It's a tough suspension. It's funny because Adam Silver has been in the circles recently because there's this growing conspiracy thing that I don't know how this would be true, but it's been a fun one to monitor that the league pushed for the Luka trade to the Lakers. I mean... It's a great one, though. It's turning into this generation's version of the frozen envelope with the Ewing lottery.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3450.802

I just can't. It's because there's no other explanation for the trade. So now the conspiracy people have nudged that way to that one. And I can't wait to get aggregated incorrectly for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3474.091

That was the first one. Listen, did I hop on that tricycle and take it around for a little spin in my living room? I did. I did. I tested it out. It's pretty ludicrous. I like the league brokering a trade strategy. It's pretty funny, especially because they killed the Chris Paul trade to the Lakers 15 years ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3495.654

But that's the thing. When there's no explanation for something, that's when conspiracies start. When it's just like, this is the dumbest trade ever. There has to be a reason this happened. None of the reasons fit. That's when you have conspiracies. Just bad call.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3641.836

So skin's hanging off Nico Harrison's body right as the trade's being called in?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3657.762

The only move for him is just to resign. Because at some point, you only have one life, we think. And if your life just for the next two years is you've committed this reviled transaction. And the whole point of like being a GM or whatever for a team, other than running the team, picking the players, but you also want to go to the games. and be like, yeah, that's my team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3681.46

And now that's been, I just don't understand what the win is for him at this point.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3697.655

So wait until after the draft, make sure you didn't get in the top three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3720.174

This is good. So the best case scenario for him is the Lakers suck in the playoffs. they underachieve in some way or it doesn't work out. And there's more questions about Luca, even though there shouldn't be questions, but a little like after the finals last year, like, huh, he wasn't that good in the finals. And the Celtics really attacked him on defense. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3740.691

Maybe, maybe this could be a James Harden of this generation kind of guy. He'd have that. And then you would have whoever wins the title. It's like, man, like OKC wins the title. Holy shit, their defense. Wow. That's right. Defense wins championships. Then Nico's like, see what I mean? I'm just trying to tell you guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3768.851

You know what's funny? I have probably a hot take off the trade. If they had gotten Reeves in it with how good Reeves is. Yes. And it was Reeves and Anthony Davis and two firsts. Like we're in the ballpark of like, now I can start to see it. You can at least talk me into it after two drinks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3798.821

Yeah, it's the not getting enough is to me, if we're doing a seesaw, it's 70% you didn't get enough. And then 30%, I can't believe you traded Luka Doncic. But it's still the 70% of you just didn't get enough. Mikhail Bridges got, was it five first round picks? Yeah, two of them were kind of. But yeah, it's still Davis is Davis is like a top 12 guy, but he's a little injury prone.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3824.623

But yeah, it's I don't know what you do because you've you've hurt the sport in a city in a way that we've kind of time out. Never, never seen.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3841.594

Did not hurt. Well, that's what I mean. It's hurt the sport in one city, but it helped in the other cities. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3885.505

They traded Mookie Betts, I think February 2020. It's like a couple weeks before COVID.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3893.007

Yeah, I'm going to do the tweet, but then I'm going to dive into it a little more. Love it. The Red Sox were never the same for me after that trade. They'd won four titles. Baseball was changing. My basketball, football fascinations were growing every year. All these different reasons for it. It just was not life and death for me like it used to be. But it was really about the trade.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3925.376

I think it was like five straws that broke the camel's back because I love Mookie Betts. Like the whole point of sports is to... You want Tom Brady for 20 years. You want Jason Tatum for 20 years. Like you get one of these guys. It's like Dallas with Luca. You get one of these guys. This is like one fourth or one fifth of your life potentially that you're disguised on your team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3945.862

And Mookie was like everything I wanted from a good player.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3949.243

So they trade him. I'm never the same. And it really made me... but now with this, uh, with the Red Sox, with Christian Campbell and with Roman Anthony gumming and hopefully mayor, but especially how much fun it's been to watch Christian Campbell, these first few games.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3963.911

Um, and it's very similar to Mookie's rookie season where he just like, he's swinging from the heels on everything, but his bats hitting everything. And you just, you don't want to miss is that bats the way he carries himself. He had this thing the other day, Cora talked about where he said, um, he doesn't call his teammates, teammates, um, Did you hear this? No. He doesn't say teammate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

3985.586

He says friend. Love it. He's like, these are my friends. My friend, Raphael Devers, he doesn't use the word teammate. I was like, this guy's out of Central Castings, 22. He's the most exciting rookie they've had since Mookie Betts. But then Roman Anthony, who's coming at some point this year, who's the best prospect in baseball. And you know what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4010.169

Yeah, I was doing some spearfishing, sleeping in a cave, talking to a volleyball, but I think I'm back.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4032.857

It's the only sport where when somebody's just an awesome prospect... It makes the most sense in baseball when you just see somebody and you're like, that guy's fucking awesome. I guess that can happen in basketball too, but not in the same way because they're a little younger and they're competing against like grown ass men.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4049.016

In baseball, sometimes you have these dudes come in and you're like, wow. You see some of the Roman Anthony highlights and you're like, Are you worried about Devers on the flip side? My dad is. It's a big conversation with my dad. He had a hit yesterday. He was like, he came in fat in camp. It's his fault. He was like, offset about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4084.443

I think baseball has become the new David Stern NBA where every first month of the season, they have some sort of controversy now. Like this year, it's the torpedo bats. I was all in. I read every torpedo bat thing. I've been watching the Yankees quips of them. I was like, wow, this is, why is this legal? How are they doing this? Why don't other teams? Like, it's really fascinating. Loved it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

411.175

Yeah, they're not tall but they're big. They're big, but then in games like this, where it's just you see the other team that can move the ball around, that can get to the rim, that has a bunch of different options, that has bench scoring, that can exploit their bench against the Lakers' bench, then you start to get a little nervous.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4139.045

Let me tell you something. I look back at, uh, some of the kids sports that I had to sit through and baseball's way up there is the worst. Really? Yeah. Was he any good? No, no. It wasn't about whether... He was actually good. And I think the COVID thing kind of ended the baseball career. Oh, it stinks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4160.836

It was just... It's the seating, like the worst possible seating situations, the long drives everywhere, the games... Um, nobody has control over the pitches over the mound. The ball's going everywhere. Kids are crying. Like if you go 10, that sweet spot with the boys between eight and 11, anyone's a candidate start crying during the game. Oh yeah. Everyone's like, it's just a rollercoaster ride.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4185.234

But the sports I missed, um, Um, thank God gymnastics. That sounds horrific. Swimming sounds awful. Just from the parent standpoint. Uh, and then track and field. Those are the big three of the ones you don't want your kid to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4238.043

You know what was part of the baseball thing for me? I thought the parents were especially annoying. It's a tough parent crowd, but the guy who has to go right behind home plate, videotape all his kids' pitches, and he's blocking everybody. And then the two parents who get a little chirpy with kids on the other team, you're like, dude, these kids are 10. Shut up. It's a pretty bad scene for that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4267.819

That's great. That's really smart. See, you're always a thinker.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

43.143

Coming up, Warriors, Lakers, White Lotus, half-baked ideas. Action Pack next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Hey, I got a new Rewatchables coming this week because Kyle Brandt and I, we decided to do The Saint because Val Kilmer passed away. And we want to talk about Val Comer. We want to talk about a very bizarre movie that we both love.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4305.464

When Ben was playing third base, I would sit in left field and I really enjoyed it because nobody was out there. I was still close enough to see what was going on with him. He'd occasionally get the foul ball hit toward me. And there were no parents.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

431.983

I mean, Curry finished with 37, 10 for 21, is starting to play his way towards second-team All-NBA, I feel like. Might already be there. Especially because... it does seem like Brunson's coming back in time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4326.297

When the parents don't understand baseball. Isn't that a strikeout? No, it's three. It's two strikes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4335.66

Yeah. No, it's only two outs. We're not adding any. Haven't had three outs yet. We'll take a break. We'll do half-baked ideas. All right. So you've been doing half-baked ideas with me pretty much ever since I've had a podcast. For whatever reason, none of them have been sold for millions of dollars. They're happening, though. Every once in a while, one of them happens.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4359.81

Well, one of them got turned into a movie, The Purge. We didn't get any credit. We did our leap year movie. It became The Purge. I'll always believe it. The...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4381.972

Thank you for that one. Start ripping them off. I have three bonus ones too, but I'll intersperse mine later because this is your show and your gimmick.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4449.355

So you brought him in the house. That's the worst thing you can do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

445.309

And I, do you believe in legacy stuff at all with this? Like, do you feel like, uh, almost like in boxing where you got to actually beat the champ to take the title? Like if it's, he's on the bubble, second team or third team, same for LeBron. It's like, eh, I'm going to edge you towards second team for the pedigree.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4568.522

It's like days. Isn't it like seven, eight, nine days? It's like burning popcorn multiplied by a hundred.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4587.712

So what else? I feel like that can't be the only job for the, for the animal wolf. It's gotta be, there's gotta be a couple other things like bit by a rattlesnake. He knows what to do with that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4617.759

Tough one for the dog, man. Getting sprayed close by a skunk. It's honestly a concussion.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

464.289

Maybe that's not the right way to think about it, but for both of those guys, that's what I'm probably going to end up doing because of the pedigree.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4699.533

So it's like a grilling a cheeseburger smell just a lot of the time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4713.346

Was there another level of this where it's almost like you have a surround sound system in your house, but instead it's a surround smell system? And you're like, today I'm going to pass out the smell of burgers being grilled. And they just go through your house?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4729.878

Can AI come up with that? AI can do everything. AI is overrated. Pizza burning on a wood grill smell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4772.178

It smells great. You made me think of LA Live. walking to where we both used to do TV and do TV shows, and Grantland was there, that there was that restaurant that would spew out the hot air from the air conditioning that smelled like food, like burgers and dogs, but it was like this hot, humid, disgusting version of the smell.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4793.083

And when you walked through it, you got hit by it every time, and you would always forget it was there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4797.886

Was it good or no? Bad. Bad smell. It was like a hot, heat... Across from Tatsuya? Hot, heat, like... kind of food that was already made, gross smell. Oh, I remember that. And I got hit by it last week. And you didn't like it? Going to my car in the garage. Did not like it. All of your odors sound much better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4955.222

I talked about this two weeks ago. Brady screwed it up in football. Now we just assume Aaron Rodgers shouldn't be watching.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

4964.753

It's really only Brady and LeBron. That's right. They're the only two that made it into their forties and stayed good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

502.016

Well, the Warriors are 20 and four since that Butler trade in the games that he's actually played. He was quiet today for the most part, but also wasn't quiet. I felt like he was present in the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Do you want my worst one, a decent one, or one that I'm actually afraid to give out because I feel like it's an actual idea?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

5043.702

Okay. Um, remember masterclass when all the Malcolm Gladwell teaches you how to write a book and is that still a thing? I don't know if it's still a thing or not. And you would watch these tutorials, but it was like, they would just get all these awesome people. Yeah. What is the biggest question couples ask one another every week?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

5068.735

The number one thing, couples who are married, who are somewhere between my age group and your age group, even though we're pretty close to each other. The number one question. Number one question we ask week after week.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

5087.827

That's a good one. Yeah, that's probably, I had that number too. Number one. Should we watch this? Yeah. It's like, hey, Netflix. Go check Netflix. What's on there? Temptation Island.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

5105.936

Should we watch this? Watch one episode? What's this new show, Adolescence? Oh. Celtic city on max sports documentary at a team. I don't know. Is this a good one? Should we watch this? This is the, there's so much content. You never know what to watch, what not to watch. What's good. What's not good. Okay. And then you end up like you're on Google.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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You're checking out like, Oh, did vulture write a recap of this? They did. Oh wait, the ringer wrote a piece that said, they said this was good. Oh, I heard on the, like there's this extra step. Well, not with Master Critic. Okay, go ahead. We're doing all AI for movies, TV, reality. So reality, it's like, Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

513.197

And then there was a couple spots where he took over and he would get to the... He has a sense for when they need him. I really like the way this team plays together. The Kaminga piece was the question for me. Trying to shoehorn him in and you could have... I even looked at his props today heading into the game and his over-under for points was 13 and a half. And I was thinking like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

534.264

That feels way too high to me, but I also wouldn't be surprised if that's way too low. It was one of those. And then, you know, he was out there for big stretches in crunch time. They were playing him and Draymond, Podzemski, Curry, and Butler. And that was their five. And it was interesting because I don't know if we've seen those five guys together before. in a big situation like that before.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

555.577

They had size. Kaminga was doing the thing where he's kind of floating around the baseline and doing these weird little back cuts. They could switch a little bit on defense with all that, but it also helps that Pazemski had, you know, as you said, one of the best games of his career. But the Kaminga thing, what'd you see? What'd you notice?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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,,,,,, . . . . . .. a P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P. P,實... , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a el... ,,,,,,, Followed by Melissa, Amy, Jessica, Heather, and Angela. By the way, names that no longer exist. Those kids are not... Oh, Saruti says it's infiltrated his IG algorithm. Saruti's about to have a kid. Oh, nice. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

5928.782

Saruti, what's the name? Saruti, just come on the Zoom. So this 100% exists?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

5955.584

Has this ever happened in half-baked ideas where there's been a half-baked idea? Like, is this a sign that we're getting old?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

5997.875

Yeah, but now that you shouldn't be Jalen, Suriti, don't name your kid Jalen if you're having a boy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6010.265

See, the reason I thought this was a half-baked idea, because the move is just don't do anything that everybody else is doing in the last 10 years. Go back, like there's no Jennys anymore. Jenny was the most popular name when we were growing up. And there's like, nobody wants to name their kid Jenny because all the adults all know people named Jenny and they want to zag.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6027.716

But really the move is to zag the other way and go with Jenny. I know, but everyone is zagging. That's the problem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6045.53

Kathleen. Yeah, look, the trending names right now, Wilds. Rachel, I believe, is in the Bible.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6059.258

Well, the trending names right now. Arthur, Birdie, Celeste, Daphne, and Dorothy. So like the 1920s and 30s names are coming back. We'll probably have a Marge and a Madge, all that stuff. I like those. So Rudy, the thing you just, you just have to avoid having the name that your kid just has to have the last name initial next to their name for eight years. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6084.813

Yeah. I was, Zoe was in one class where there were three Zoes. And we were like, we thought like there were, maybe we were just naive. Anyway, Cerruti. All right, that one's fully baked. Thanks, Cerruti. Good job, Cerruti. What's your next one, Wiles? I've got, no, that one's no good. I can't believe they're baby name consultants that this is a job. I'm just stunned by this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6168.78

Bring them back. Yeah. Bring your Charlotte. You're playing out the string, put a band in there and it's happier. And it's great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6249.463

Nobody likes it and they do it because if you don't do it, it gets too quiet in the arena and then people can yell stuff and then people get upset. The band thing, I would say one of the reasons is it's taking up space somewhere. Oh, boo hoo. Well, that's, I'm just saying these guys are all greedy. That's why we have 82 games instead of 70 because these guys are grabbing every dollar they can.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6274.591

Ballmer could have done it. Ballmer could have been like, I'm building the best arena ever. And by the way, we're going to have a band and not like a college band. It's going to be like a big ensemble, Doobie Brothers kind of band that during timeouts, it's like when a late night TV show goes to commercial and all of a sudden the band kicks in. That's what we're doing, folks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6295.467

I think Steve Ballmer should do that. Maybe he's listening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6335.217

Oh, so you jump, but you don't shoot till you're like near the foul line? Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6378.189

I'm trying to think of the situation. So you need to be like a three-on-two?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6410.582

I remember that game. That was awesome. When that happened, you won the game. Yes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6436.099

Tatum's been messing around with this one-legged thing that's pretty fun.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6450.444

Oh, you're performing other people's half-baked ideas? Would Bill Byrne do this in his Hulu specials? Like, hey guys, while you're still here, my buddy has a whole bit I'm going to do.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

646.653

Yeah, it's true. Well, the Kaminga, the on-off numbers with him were pretty rough, even though it was a limited sample size. They were really good with Santos. Kind of strangely good with Post, too. And Post was out there today doing the whole, I'm not afraid of anybody. I'm not afraid of you, LeBron. Talking shit. LeBron was like, what's going on with this guy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

65.397

So we're just putting it up this week. So Monday's podcast will be this weekend. The Saint. Be ready for it. You can watch it as a video on Spotify or you can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. And then Sunday night, White Lotus. Season finale, right after it ends, we're going live on Ringer-TV, the YouTube channel that we have.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6540.389

Yeah, I would say for the spouses, that's probably a better thing. You're getting divorced?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6550.659

See, I like the idea of the transfer portal in general because it works for NBA coaches. It works for sports media people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6580.512

All right, here's my last one. Okay. You know, NBA fantasy has just been destroyed. It's the worst. It's been the worst for 15 years. There's too many injuries.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6592.317

It sucks. It is like the opposite of fantasy football. And I think it's really hurt basketball because fantasy basketball was fun in the 90s. That's a good take. And then as the years went along, you know, whereas football, you care all the way through, partly through the prism of your fantasy guys. And then you think about the end of the season, guys getting shut down, teams tanking.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6612.789

Well, how do you make that more fun? That's impossible. Well, that's why I have NBA injury fantasy league. Okay. So there's all-star break happens. We have our draft and you can draft players that are going to get prematurely shut down, but you could also draft injuries. And you can draft either as the rounds go along. So maybe end up with six players and six injuries.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6636.953

And then if the player you drafted gets the injury you drafted, you get triple points. These are fake injuries? No, these are the injuries they use. I'll read you some of the injuries that they use to shut down players this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6658.197

Zion Williamson, lower back contusion. CJ McCollum, bone contusion in his foot. Paul George, some issues with his left abductor muscle. This is my favorite, Laurie Markkinen, who's missed some time, with patellofemoral nonchondriosis with associated subchondral edema.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

668.885

But Kaminga against the Lakers has always been interesting because athletically, size-wise, physicality-wise, he can kind of battle and bounce with those dudes. And I always feel like Kerr likes throwing him out there against the Lakers because, you know, Kaminga, the best thing about him is... He's like, oh, LeBron James and I are equals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6684.744

Darren Fox, extender tendon surgery. So you just, you have like 25 things. 25 kind of fake injuries that you couldn't really, the league couldn't really crack down on, right? Like, oh, lower back stiffness. I guess take, I'll take your word for it. Neck issues.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6705.979

You draft all those, then you draft all the players in the tanking team and then you try to mix and match and try to, oh, I have Paul George and I had a left abductor muscle. 30 points. And then you go. Half-baked idea. But you can't drop bad injuries. You can't be like torn ACL. No, you can't drop real ones. It's all like the fake ones.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6728.859

Like corneal irritation. Oh, that's a great pick. I thought I was going to get corneal irritation in the fourth round.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6766.63

Wilds, I had a great time. You can hear Wilds and watch him on First Things First on FS1. Yeah, thank you. Are you traveling for the playoffs? You doing anything?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6786.5

Say hi to the fans. Say hi to the crew. Great to see you as always. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Mahoney. Thanks, Kevin Wilds. Thanks, Kyle and Saruti and Gahal for producing as always. Don't forget, you can watch this podcast as a video podcast on Spotify and you can watch videos on Bill Simmons YouTube channel.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

6805.55

You can watch me and Joanna and Valerie do the season finale White Lotus instant reaction. Our Prestige TV podcast. We're doing it live on YouTube on the Ringer-TV YouTube channel. And then also this weekend, putting up The Saint, the rewatchables that Kyle Brandt and I did after Val Kilmer passed away. We are just putting that up early because it felt like we could jump ahead three days.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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So get ready for that as well. And then Monday night, Celtic City. Catch up on the first five episodes of Celtic City on... Max, episode five was my favorite episode, so we'll see if you dig it. Enjoy the weekend, and I will see you two times on Sunday. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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You guys didn't realize we're in the same plane in the NBA pyramid.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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So I think I'm a little higher on the Warriors than you, it sounds like, from a ceiling standpoint. I actually really like where they are. What are your hesitations?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Well, they interviewed JJ before the fourth quarter with Ali LaForse, and he was friendly and curt. I mean, unfriendly and curt. Unfriendly. Yeah. Yeah, he just was like, you could tell he was just really pissed off about how the game was going.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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And I was trying to figure out what pissed him off, whether it was like, I can't believe Podzemski, really, he's going to make all those shots, or I don't like something we're doing defensively. Maybe it was a bunch of stuff. The thing that was pretty weird about this game, And again, try not to overreact.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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Well, I'm trying not to now. Okay. Because it's Luka Doncic and he's one of the best players in the world. That's fair. It was a pretty uninspiring performance by him tonight. Um, I'm not really sure what was going on with him. He seemed out of it. He wasn't even like really bitching at the refs as much as usual as he would. Didn't seem upset at anyone on the warriors.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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And just in general, it was a, it was a strange performance for him. He was the third best guy on his own team. And arguably the fourth best guy because Rudy was really good tonight, too. And that's the one I thought the Warriors were going to have so much trouble matching up with him. But they seem like they matched up really well with him. He was still doing some good kickout passes. Of course.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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He was throwing his size around, but it just was not your typical Luka game. And LeBron, who started out slow... I think sensed it pretty early and he really came on and was just able to flip this switch and ended up with over 30. But I, so I don't know what to make of the Luca thing. I think the Luca Laker experience has been pretty weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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There's been like flashes of just all time, crazy brilliance. Yeah. he'll be amazing and not that great in the same game and up and down. And it seems like he's in better shape than he was defensively. It's still not good. He was really rough tonight. And I'm going to say work in progress, but we've had, this is two plus months now.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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And we are recording our reaction podcast with me and Mally Rubin and Joanna Robinson. So you can watch us live on YouTube on Ringer-TV or just wait and watch it as a video podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I will also be doing a Sunday podcast with Rousseau that day as well. We'll see. I'm like LeBron. Can I still play at that kind of pace?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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One of the things... I agree with you. One of the things I noticed with them, and I'm wondering if the Warriors unlocked it a little bit, because JJ, this team is such a weird team to coach that I think he was doing some math formula stuff with them almost, where it's like, Luca's going to take over the first eight minutes of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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I'm going to play Luca by himself and LeBron and Reeves together. And I'm going to, I'm basically, I'm turning the game into like 10, nine, 10 different segments. And the segments are going to go like this. And then in the fourth quarter, we'll do this. And it felt like the Warriors were kind of ready for all the segments. It's like, oh, we know what you're going to do in the first eight minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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You're going to get Luka going. Well, we're not going to let him get going. And just on and on it kind of went. And the one variable they couldn't really prepare for is LeBron just all of a sudden was just playing great. Yeah, just turning it up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Lakers-Warriors Takeaways, Wilt Chamberlain, 'White Lotus,' and Half-Baked Ideas With Rob Mahoney and Kevin Wildes

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But I do feel like it's just a little bit gimmicky still with the Lakers, as talented as they are, because to not have rim protection, to play those three guys at the same time, and LeBron has been so much better on defense, but I don't know how sustainable that is when we're playing every other day in the playoffs.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And then last but not least, The great Bob Ryan. I wanted to talk about a whole bunch of historical NBA stuff, 2025 versus guys from the past. So he graciously came on and we talked hoops. So it's a big, big podcast. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. Recording the top part of the pod. It's a little after 10 o'clock Pacific time.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Right. Well, I like how they adjust in a game and in a series, right? They'll try four, five, six things. They'll change rotations, not in a panicky way. Like, all right, we gave Ben Simmons a whirl and he shot an air ball that went sideways and we're not going to see him anymore now. Yeah. Chris Dunn, they're just begging. They're leaving him open by 10 feet.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Like when it's 10 feet, maybe it's time to get somebody else. But I do think They have two lineups that I think really work in a muck it up game seven. One was that one we saw tonight where they just went long, right, with Batum. The shortest guy was Harden out of everybody that was out there.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And then that other one was that one they played near the end of game four with the shooters when they did the zone. And it was just the all-offense lineup with Bogdanovich.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And I think they have their typical lineup, but I think they have two levers to pull if the game gets weird, whereas the Nuggets... It's basically like, let's throw in Westbrook and just kind of see what happens. It's like watching somebody light fireworks in their backyard. It's like, just try not to hit the house. Please stay away from the trees. Yeah, please don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Just please shoot this up in the air. And he's their fireworks guy. Other than that, they don't have a lot of moves. It's like, is Jamal Murray going to have it? Is Michael Porter going to show up? Are we going to get good Michael Porter? They don't really know what they're getting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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So things working against them. Road team game seven. James Harden in a huge game. Yep. Jokic is the best player in the series. Although Kawhi, maybe he has something to say about that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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The fact that Porter was so bad today makes me think he's going to be good in game seven because that's basically what we saw in the game four that I went to on Saturday where he was awesome and rebounding and playing with a ton of So I went, I bet they were going to subtly call him out and challenge him. And I really liked the way Murray is moving and just looks in general.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Like if he had played this way in the, in the summer Olympics, I think Canada would have won the gold medal. It was, he did the opposite. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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So big picture legacy stuff. Let's do a little legacy. Pre-Game 7 legacy? A whiff of a legacy here. Jokic losing two Game 7s at home in back-to-back years when he's the best player in the world?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Isn't that awesome? The Nuggets blowing two Game 7s at home in a row is a pulsating sign that something now needs to happen. Right? They lose this. It's like now we have to do something. Somebody has to go.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Pulsating, but I'm not sure it's on 24 hours a day. I don't think it's like a diner sign. No? A fluorescent diner sign. But I think it does pop on. But yeah, there's multiple guys, I would wonder. Yes. And if you work back for Keepers, it's basically just Jokic, Murray, and Brown. And then you could tell me Anyone else on the team who knows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And I think Gordon's a keeper, but I think he would be the trade piece if you're going to blow it up.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Well, if we're saying they have four keepers, that's a pretty tough... tough team to change because now we are just in the pure Michael Porter Jr. trade machine era and really no other lovers. Zeke Nagy?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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By the way, you should put that on, especially we're about to hit the summer. It's getting sweaty in the summers. The original degree cool rushes back. And it smells like victory for all of us. Coming back, Nick's pissed in. So I was in the car not realizing that Beyonce was playing at SoFi tonight right next to the Clipper game. And it took an hour and a half to get to Clipper game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And my plan was to watch the fourth quarter on my phone at the Clipper game. And I could not do that. But I was listening on... on a serious and just kind of playing off the announcers. And it was the Detroit Pistons announcers who were very, very excited. And Jalen Brunson did it again. So what did, what did you see? Because I unfortunately could not watch the game with my eyes. I could hear it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I just drove back from the Clippers Nuggets game six, which was quite an affair. Rob Mahoney is here. Clippers dominated the entire game. James Harden was magnificent for three quarters.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I couldn't watch it. What'd you see? Do you feel better or worse about the Knicks after tonight?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And yet, heading into that next round, the Celtics are minus 700 favorites. Well, sure. Now, if I told you before the year, the Celtics and Knicks are going to play in round two and the Celtics are going to be 7-1 favorites, I think we would have thought somebody was hurt on the Knicks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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We would have assumed Towns, Brunson, or Inanobi, one of those three, or maybe even Bridges. But that was not a healthy five. But it is a healthy five. I mean, I know Brunson's slipping around. He had 40 tonight.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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It looked like they were about to put the game away seven times and it was just going to go into the 17, 18, 19 range. I was going to be able to drive home with six minutes left and start recording the pod with you. And then all of a sudden the Nuggets were within nine and they were within six and the PTSD kicked in. New arena. Yeah. New energy, really good team. It didn't matter.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, it's a weird one with all the Knicks fans. I know, and I'm sure you know a lot of them too. Last year, they were just so delighted. by that gritty underdog team that they had. And they just really responded to those guys. And this year, it's a lot of complaining. A lot of complaining about Tibbs. A lot of wondering. But then also a real love for Brunson.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And the fact that at least they got to round two with those five guys healthy, which I think was the number one goal. A team that was built to try to beat Boston, even though Boston spanked them all season. I do not have any Knicks fans in my life who are like, watch out for us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Well, you know who eats that up for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? It's the Celtics. If you're just going to do the same thing over and over again, they couldn't be more delighted. I mean, Brunson had 33 shots tonight and eight free throws. 33 shots for a non-overtime game is kind of bonkers.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And I just don't feel like they've, I have felt that the whole year, I've never felt like they've, it feels like somebody's always losing when somebody else is winning on this team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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You know? It's almost like a zero-sum game. Brunson gets 33 shots, so that means Towns has to have a shit game, basically. And again, I need to watch the second half and study what was going on, but 33 shots is fucking... That's a crazy number. I know he made 15 of them, but that's not sustainable against Celtics. Celtics have so many guys to throw at him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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They're going to be sending two guys at him. They're going to be putting taller guys on him. This is one of the Tatum superpowers. He's actually really good at guarding. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw Tatum at him.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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The crowd got fucking nervous and you could feel it. And I was getting flashbacks to 10 years ago, that Rockets game when they blew that 19-point lead. And they survived it, mostly thanks to a crazy Russell Westbrook play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Well, the other thing is, though, Tatum's been just playing so great. And the Knicks built this team together partly to go toe-to-toe with Tatum and Brown. Brown hasn't been as great, and I don't think he's 100% healthy. But Tatum is at the complete command of his powers at this point. And You know, there's going to be this Ananobi versus Tatum piece, and then Bridges will be the second guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I'm sure they're going to stagger him so that, you know, there's going to be stretches. Maybe he'll come out earlier in the first quarter and then come back where he's trying to go against some Knicks bench guys.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, I feel vindicated and delighted. I just think he's been awesome. And there was somebody wrote a piece about angry Tatum in that Orlando series. And I totally agree. He had developed this little sneer that he has now. It's like, where'd that come from? You're like the nicest guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I love the bully stuff that he does, which is going to be harder to do against this Knicks team. But they're going to be... I just think they're going to hunt Brunson. This is what the smarter teams... who have a lot of options. They're just going to be like, where is he? Let's try to wear him down on this end.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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They're probably not going to defend him full court, which I think if like Indiana played them, I think Indiana would try to wear him down that way and just basically make them work to dribble the ball up. Detroit did some of that too.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, that's not... If the Celtics are healthy, that's not going to work. The question would... The fear for the Celtic fans is, how healthy are we? What's going on with Drew Holiday? Are they playing it super safe? Or is this a guy who's in his mid-30s now who has a hamstring issue and this is going to bug him the whole time? How bad is Jalen's knee? When's the next Porzingis injury?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Like there's, you know, getting the rest and not having to play a game six against Orlando I think was pretty good. If I'm a Knicks fan, I'm really concerned that it was that much of a slugfest, knockdown, drag out, back and forth series with Detroit. You know, and I know that we talked about them a bunch on your pod, on my pod. Like we all respected Detroit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I went with my friend, Mike, who I shared tickets with, and we decided he was the MVP of the game because he did good stuff for both teams. Everybody had a positive interaction with him. It's true. Our guy balances the ledger. He knows what he's doing out there. So I'll tell you what I saw in person, but what'd you see on TV? What jumped out to you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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The advanced metrics are very favorable. They turned into be a good regular season team, but they're so limited in a series like that. Like the guys that they had versus the guys that Nick's had. I just don't feel like the series should have been this nail biter for six games. I don't think they should have been able to go in there and win a game five at MSG.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I don't think this game tonight should have come down to Brunson having to be heroic. The Knicks should just be better than that team. And I think some of it is coach related, which we've talked about on all of our ringer pods. I just don't think Tibbs has a feel for this team. This doesn't feel like a Thibodeau team, in my opinion.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Tim Hardaway didn't play in the finals last year. He was on a team that made the finals and did not play.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Kind of like a stealth Durant team. I wouldn't say he was the favorite, but it's a really interesting one if you're going to try to figure out a Durant destination and the price range. gets a little lower, but you just kind of put him in the Tobias Harris spot. I mean, they're not close to winning a title, but.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Well, I'm thinking about how many picks would have to be in that. But if they're trying to get picks, I, you know, if I were the Pistons, I would probably try to do what some of these other teams in that position have done in years past is, hey, it was great. We got our playoff taste. Let's try not to get crazy. Let's do this again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And then maybe two years from now, you know, they're probably hoping this story is already starting to come out about how the Celtics, this is kind of a last run with the roster they have and expect some trades. You know, I'm not surprised that came out. I'm not surprised people did the math and was like, yeah, this is probably not sustainable. The timing of it was a little weird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And if you don't already have it, download the FanDuel app today. to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus and president-select states. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLE or visit rg-help.com.

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I was wondering why it became a story when it's been a story all year for anybody who follows the Celtics to any capacity. The roster is going to cost like $250 million extra if they don't trade some salary. I don't know who it's going to be. So there's a little bit of this last... dance run just with this, this specific group. And it might just be one guy.

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A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Um, but I, I, I, Bob Ryan's coming on this pod later. And we were talking about like, just what a popular Celtics team this is with the, with the fans, like just a bunch of like dudes. There's no, like the one guy where like, Oh man, that guy drives me crazy. It's like, it doesn't, it doesn't really exist. So, um, one last thing with Celtics next.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2246.53

You would think there would be all these great storied battles over the years, and there just hasn't been. You know, I was too young to remember when they played in the 70s. I do remember the 84 series, which was Bernard versus Larry, which was just awesome. Bernard basically beat this awesome Celtics team by himself for three games. They beat them in 1990. I think they played maybe in 2013.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2270.46

Yeah. I want to say we got a, didn't we get a mellow tail end of, it was the tail end of the KG Pierce era.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2283.973

It's fucking nuts that they have no playoff. Because like, oh, what a rivalry. It's like, this really isn't a rivalry. But this is probably the closest the two teams have been from a talent standpoint, I would say. Maybe 84. I thought the Celtics were way more talented. But Bernard was maybe the second best player in the league that year. So it'll be fun to see it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2304.69

I think it's going to be a really hard ticket to get in New York. Sure. There'll be some energy behind it. And from an ESPN standpoint, they lost the Lakers. So we just move right to the Knicks, right? We move right to Knicks content. What happens? I don't know what they do. You don't think Clippers and Nuggets are moving the needle in that way? I don't.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2325.396

I'm fully expecting from somebody from the Lakers. LeBron is open to re-signing, but wants to make sure Luka is committed to being shaped next year. I'm waiting for that story. I'm on pins and needles. Just sneak that one out. I am waiting for the Austin Reeves. If they have to trade Austin Reeves to get a big guy... You know, you saw what happened with Rudy Gobert. We got to do it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2348.003

I'm waiting for that one. Maybe it'll be trading for Rudy Gobert. Who knows?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2357.65

We're good at least through round two with all this. I forgot the will LeBron retire or not. We're going to get that one. He might. He might not. Now he's thinking about it. Now he might. It'll just be in the news over and over again. Or will LeBron accept a minimum salary to go play for a contender? That'll be two days. So yeah, ESPN will be fine for probably another two weeks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2380.105

Because what they're not going to do is talk about, can OKC go 16-0 in the playoffs?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2391.513

It's a great point. But out of all these four series... what's the best one? Like, we don't know who's coming out of OKC Denver. It's probably Gold State, Minnesota, right? If that becomes the series, just from a star power intrigue standpoint.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2422.087

Are you with me on don't count the Pacers out for a massive upset corner or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2461.36

Yeah, Cleveland will win in a sweep 4-1 or 4-2. That's minus 188. I think the Pacers are going to hang in this series. I've been saying it for weeks. I really think they have... I think they're really hard to play, and I think they really know who they are, and they have an identity, and they're going to be dangerous. I know you already got your Minnesota Lakers thoughts out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

247.702

I don't think Chris Dunn played in the second half. A lot of the people in my section had been calling for this for a while. Just basically go bigger, longer. But the thing I wasn't expecting was Batum had a bunch of reps on Jokic defending him. Now, we were playing blood sport rules tonight. I don't know if you noticed. I think there were less than 30 fouls total. And it was the same both ways.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2494.1

Who was awesome. Certainly the best game he's ever had, but just to watch the Lakers not try to solve the problem? This is like, if we lose this game, we go home. Yeah. And they're just getting annihilated on the boards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2511.353

And they were just like, even the guys on the court, like they weren't playing a center, but it's, you know, Luka, it seemed like Luka was 100% healthy, but Rui and LeBron, it was basically, they weren't getting rebounds. Guess what? Nobody else is getting a rebound.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2522.701

And they're 15 feet from the basket. It was one of the weirdest games I've ever been to. I've never seen a team... in a must-win situation, just let the same thing happen over and over and over again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2567.949

When I went to game two, they were scrambling and gang rebounding and really being wary of it. In this game, they weren't. I thought when Maxi Kleber came in, I was with my friend Chen. First of all, I honestly didn't know he was on the team. I didn't know he was dressed for games. And he came in and I was like, is that Maxie Kleber?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2596.98

See if you can knock down a shot. Minnesota was like, that's great. Knock yourself out over there. We were just like, wow. And he was out there in the second half of the game. very very strange going obviously going back to that Mark Williams trade not going through but I don't know where he makes a difference I just feel like That's a bad matchup for them all the way around.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Well, it was also like such a massive rollover because Minnesota should have won that game by 35 points. They couldn't make a three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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All the threes were wide open. All of them. And guys weren't like scrambling. They weren't like, you know, road. It was just, it was such a weird one. And then the way JJ acted the net 48 hour stretch is like, wow, that feels like he's unraveling. Um, I thought the whole thing, now you go into this off season, it's like LeBron's going to be now officially in his forties.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2670.611

You know, um, really the only move is Reeves. That was weird. But for Minnesota, um, Minnesota golden state, Minnesota probably has the, the, the punchers chance against okay. See, because of the Edwards piece and the defense, but I I'm still on Clippers have the best chance to beat okay. Sea Island. And they're probably going to lose game seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

271.581

So that was how it was going. I went to the Laker game yesterday. I think there was close to 50 fouls in that game. And everything was a foul. This game, nothing was a foul. And everyone knew it. And Jokic, who was getting mauled every time he had the ball, but he was also mauling other people. There was a couple of plays where he was just shoving Batum backwards.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2745.128

Yeah, the one thing I feel like with Minnesota is when McDaniels is good, they feel almost unbeatable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2762.697

I was like, okay, here we go. Then he had a second foul. I was like, all right, good, good job. You got him out of the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2770.782

They, they were calling him on hand checks, which is so fun. Like if he had played in the, he would have loved playing in the game. I just went to, he would have been clubbing people. Um, I think the last point I'll make on Minnesota, driving home, I was listening to Gobert being interviewed and they asked him like, hey, Edwards was 0 for 10, 0 for 11. Would you think of his game?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2790.98

Because he'd still had an impact on the game. And he was like, I don't care if he was 0 for 60. He made all the right plays. And that's all we want him to do is he made the right decisions. The ball didn't go in, but he was still making the right decisions. I thought that was a really good point because I thought last year in the Dallas series,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2808.766

when he got a little discombobulated, then he stopped making the right plays. I always felt like he was doing the right thing or had the right idea. Most of the time yesterday, he just couldn't make a shot. And that, that I think is the difference in him last year and this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2881.569

Yeah, when you think he's not even in his mid-20s yet, it's pretty good. Well, a lot of good setups. Plus, we got a game seven, Rob. So group chat's going right after, like Sunday morning?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

289.687

He was shoving guys in the back to get rebounds. It was just full-on warfare, which I would think would benefit the Nuggets. But I thought the Clippers, with their size and their physicality, kept up with it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2898.995

I'm excited to hear it. Rob Mahoney, thanks for popping on. Appreciate it. Thanks, Bill. All right, Joanne Robinson is here from The Ringer. We were basically married to White Lotus for eight weeks together. Eight weeks, yeah. Me, you, and Mallory. Then we did a couple rewatchables. We did Can't Hardly Wait. We had our first fight. A lot of good stuff happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2926.414

So last year was rough for us with television because we had the writer's strike. They were moving stuff to 2025. And this year has been a pretty great run, especially for like The Ringer and for our pods where we had like White Lotus and Severance and a bunch of different things. And now we're in Last of Us. We have this Jon Hamm show. We have the studio. We have, we found out,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2948.393

I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, but the bear is going to be mid June now. So there's shits going down. What, what's the biggest TV storyline in 2025 to you?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

2992.099

Well, it also feels like the whole infrastructure of an episode happens. We talk about it. We go backwards. We go forward to the next one. What's going to happen? Oh, new episode. This happened. I was really worried the binge model was going to ruin it. And I think it has ruined it in some cases.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3010.852

Your friends and neighbors could easily just, you could have put those all up at once and just had me binge them. But for the most part, that week-to-week structure still works. I know for us with White Lotus, we got so much content out of it. It was great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3085.061

Well, so there's three versions of these shows, right? The first version is like what we went through at White Lotus, what you're doing now, Last of Us. You watch it. You probably watch it a second time. You prepare all your thoughts and takes and you really got to dive in. Then you wait for the next week, try to anticipate. That's one. The second version of that is probably the same thing.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3105.111

So maybe you don't need to watch it twice, three times. Like for me, Landman was like that, where I really look forward to it every week. I knew what it was. Then there's that third version. That's a real sweet spot this day and age, which I think your friends and neighbors fits into.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3124.268

No, no, no. Landman was good at this too. I don't have to completely pay attention the entire time. I can kind of do something else. Somebody in my call, I missed five minutes. I'm probably not missing that much. It's a show that knows what it is. I like hanging out for an hour. I wouldn't watch it twice. Probably would never watch this season again. I'm enjoying the hang.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3198.456

Well, I want to talk about the studio, but yeah, you're right. Your Friends and Neighbors was probably like a 2012 Showtime show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3207.019

Packaged with the affair. It's like the affair at nine o'clock and then your Friends and Neighbors at 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3215.422

It's got the model of a lot of those type of shows where Ham is the star. It's then you have like the second star who's like, oh, I've always liked them. In this case, Amanda Peete. It's like, oh, great to see her again. I'm glad she's still in stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3229.305

But for the most part, not it's a cast of, you know, that guys and that ladies and people you're like, I know, I know this person, but from where I can't even remember.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3258.234

It's so funny you ask this. I just was talking to somebody about this who works in TV. Yeah. And who had kids around the same age as my kids. And we're just like, it's just amazing how TV gets this wrong. Because you'd figure some of the people that write or run shows have teenage kids or just had them or are in the middle of having them. And they're... I, they just don't get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3282.552

They're all kind of like anytime you have like a female daughter, like a 15 year old daughter character. Yeah. They're always like super snarky and angry. They have no other dimensions other than that. The boys are always like crazy awkward. And that's just kind of what they've decided all the teen characters that all these shows should be. And I don't really fully understand it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3304.747

More people that I could see, like, you know, I judge it by the kids that pass through my house, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3311.31

Like my son will just have four people over randomly and I'm like, hey, what's up? You know, or the same thing when my daughter was living with us in high school. And I don't know. They're just kids. I think teens are way more interesting than we see on TV. And maybe they don't know how to write it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3352.312

Well, the funniest is Landman because I think the lady who plays the teenager is like 29 in real life. She is, yeah. And is also in 1923 in a completely different role. But... No one's getting it right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3368.48

I thought the youngest son on White Lotus... I thought was, I thought Lockie was a pretty interesting character that had some dimensions. Now he's probably, he was heading to college, right? He was like a senior.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3380.909

Well, we were talking about when we did Can't Hardly Wait, like how many of those archetypes they either got wrong or there was way more there or stuff they missed. I just think Hollywood's always had issues with this.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

340.113

Yeah. So Harden comes out and you see it immediately where game five, he was terrible. Game six, he's doing that accelerator thing that he has.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3406.113

But just like a sense of like, I think when, you know, it really depends on the year, but kids are When they're 15, they're trying to be 17, right? Yeah. When they're 17, they can kind of see 19 and 20 in college and they want to be adults, but they're not there yet. And it's super awkward. And then when they're 19, which is another age that's in these shows a lot,

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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That's when they become a rational, confident adults like my daughter now who thinks she knows everything. And, you know, she's like, I know, dad, I know. And it's like, you don't know anything. But it's just it's weird. They can never nail it. And I think a big part of it is they have tried to zag and cast the people that are more age appropriate.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And then then you're heading into a whole other thing where you don't know if you're getting good actors or not.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3500.637

The Homeland Daughter was really when that's the fork in the road for how we did this. But I mean, you're friends and neighbors. The best thing is it's basically a Jon Hamm show. And if you like Jon Hamm, you're going to like the show. And I like Jon Hamm and I support all Jon Hamm projects. But this is like, Jon Hamm, just cook. You ran out all your money. Your wife's sleeping with this other guy.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

352.789

Where it's the herky-jerky, I'm going, I'm stopping now, I'm going again. And he just said he was yo-yoing a bunch of the Nuggets defenders. Yeah. And so he's playing well and Kawhi's playing well. And I think they both ended up with almost 60 points combined. Usually they're pretty hard to beat if both of those guys are going, but you're watching Harden just toasting everybody in the Nuggets.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3523.845

You're paying alimony to her. You just got fired for no reason. just start stealing from people, you know, I love a heist personally.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3545.331

I have some questions. I have some thoughts. There was a pretty strange party basketball scene they had in one of the episodes that I was like, well, this will never, ever in a million years happen. But I do, I do think some of the dynamics they have are pretty fun about like the country club dynamics, the paying people, Paying some sort of private coach. How much should we spend?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3567.658

Do we need to get another guy? We've got to get our daughter in college to play this sport. Like some of that's pretty good. And then the dynamics of when you have this big extended circle of friends, which I'm certainly have had different versions of that as I get older.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3582.959

One divorce or separation can be such like a catalyst for conversation, whether they're in the room or not. For people, how do you bring it up or not? How do you talk about it? Do you take sides? So they've had some pretty good stuff. But this to me is like a typical Apple show. It's like the morning show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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It's just these kind of fun shows that you have to watch kind of one episode of and you get it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3618.174

But that's kind of the Apple model, right? The person to put in the square picture with the title of the show. And you always know who it is, right? It's like, oh, Vince Vaughn. Okay, what's he up to? And sometimes it doesn't work where it's like, Billy Crystal, he's a psychiatrist and he looks sad. I'm going to stay away. No thanks.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3658.41

Yeah, we did the prestige. We did the first, I think, three. And I think we were all really interested in it. You guys liked it a little more than I did. I thought the energy was definitely a choice. And they've kept that energy every episode. It's really interesting. To me, it's like the rehearsal or some of these other things where people decide creatively, we're going for it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And you're either going to be for the ride or you're against it. And they have a lot to say about the studio system, why things are made, why choices are made. They're trying to satirize and parody everybody at the expense of where sometimes you watch and you're like, oh, come on, that wouldn't happen. But I don't think they care. Right? So it's a fun hang.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I think it seems like the younger generation... Like Craig Horvath loves it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3706.834

Right. So for, there's a certain generation that isn't familiar with the player and some of the other times that people have made shows like this. And so for the first time they're seeing a show like this and they're like, this is great.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3721.42

Larry Sanders or a lot of these it's dipping and pulling from a lot of things I've already seen. So I kind of know, I like, I'm not, I don't find it that surprising. But I'm still glad that exists. So what do you think? What's been your take through seven episodes?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And it's like, just why don't you do this more often? And then what you realize is he had about 90 minutes of him And by the fourth quarter, that acceleration thing, it wasn't there anymore. And Denver had him figured out. A lot of slow possessions, reminiscent of my Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And that's been the blueprint for all of these things, where they're always able to get good cameos that are smartly thought out, where it's like, here's this public perception of you. We're going to twist this a certain way and try to use this. And this will be a win for you. And then usually it is. Ron Howard made it up in episode three.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3851.315

That's a great point. Well, I feel like You know, I think about the studio and what's missing for me. Because I've watched every episode. I look forward to it. I don't always love it, but I'm glad it exists.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3871.88

I like how he's drawn out. Like, I get it. Like, I totally get the character. But you're making him the hero of a show, but he's not a hero, which I think is the point. But it's like I saw seven episodes in. It's like, am I rooting for this guy to flame out or figure out like, oh, I can actually use my powers to save Hollywood. And maybe the show hasn't figured that out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3893.699

But we're on this journey with him. And I don't know what the journey is. And I'm not sure what my role is. Am I rooting for him or against him? I don't know if the show's figured it out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

390.79

Just a lot of like killing the shot clock so you can get a terrible shot with three seconds left, like a corner three with a hand in the face. And the Nuggets kind of clawed back. I'm trying to think what's the takeaway big picture, especially after going to two of these games. And I really do think the Clippers are slightly better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3956.161

Yeah, I know what you mean. I think it's weird. Both shows, even though I think the studio probably put a little more thought into everything it's trying to do than your friends and neighbors. But I think both of them are trying to say something that's not about the main star, right? The studio is...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3972.438

pretty obviously trying to make all of these points about this is why we all complain about Hollywood all the time. This is the thought process. These are the people that are responsible for the choices of the shows and movies that make you mad when you don't understand why there's not more good stuff. This is why you're seeing all of it right now. So I get that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

3994.585

Your friends and neighbors, I think, is way less interested in the Jon Hamm piece and more interested in this whole culture of wealthy people, their relationship with one another, their possessions, and the fact that they have stuff and they don't even realize stuff's gone when they're just collecting things. They don't even know what it is. They have a basketball court. They don't use it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4017.427

Um, they want their daughter to play tennis cause it'll get her in a college and it'll be a good thing for them, not for the daughter. And so it's, it's, it's hitting this, like, why are the choices that all these wealthy people are making? What's the point of them that I actually think is a really interesting concept.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

406.599

And I don't think that's going to mean they're going to win the series. But I would say if it's three to three right now, but it's like three point three to two point seven. I think the Nuggets have to be super pumped that they have a game seven at home because I don't I don't think they played that well as a team.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4084.525

Or a shelf of watches. Just like, here are all my luxury watches one by one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4103.935

I mean, when they went to the guy's little private basketball court, I was like, oh, that's pretty impressive. A little indoor court out of nowhere. Some of the... Part they maybe don't hit hard enough, especially with older parents, is how drunk people get.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4120.676

They've gotten it a little bit, but it's definitely something you see when people have like the kids go to college and it's just like the couple left, like people getting like hammered. It's like this whole, that's what I've never seen in these shows in the right way where it's like, whoa, they can't even walk and they're 54. Yeah.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4156.503

It doesn't even have to be well-to-do. I think it's everybody. You're, you're, If you're building like your whole life around work and your kids and then the kids just go, some people, first of all, you better really like who you're married to, which I'm fortunate enough. I really enjoy my wife's company still. But you better really like whoever you're married to.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4175.341

And you better be prepared for like, guess what? There's going to be a moment when your kids don't really want to hang out with you and they're just going to leave and they're going to go and it's just going to be you guys. And some people are like... That's how it goes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4220.608

I just wasn't, for me, those bleak end of the world type things, like you really kind of have to be in the mood and, you know, post, Post COVID, I wasn't really that interested to explore the end of the world, but maybe I'll get there in the late 2020s. I don't know. Andor is something like, that's one where I think you really have to buy into the Star Wars universe.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And I think it becomes more meaningful, right? I just couldn't step into Andor unless I had some background, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4286.101

I mean, the problem is I'm just on these terrible channels like Tubi and Pluto. I'm just like, oh, Death Wish is on. And I'm just watching some movie from 50 years ago.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

43.943

Coming up, we're going to talk NBA playoffs, television, and historical NBA. It's all next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. Put up a new Rewatchables on Monday night. We did Someone to Watch Over Me. It was a one for us, for me and Chris Ryan. We have a massive movie coming on Monday. Stay tuned for that. Readjust your schedules.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4301.347

Yeah, I love the grid. I still have cable too. Same thing. I'll zip through the movie channels. Yeah, just what's on. The Tubi main screen's great. I like what Amazon will get frisky sometimes with like 90s classics or 2000s movies you haven't seen. I like having my handheld. So you're happy with The Last of Us. I know you're covering it all over the place.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4327.741

I feel like at this point, everybody knows. Right. How would you hide from that one?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Because they did one of those things that we've gotten used to during the social media era of huge surprise, you know, and you see those moments on The Last of Us.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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So, you know, something happened, but then it just was persistent. And then the next day, of course, it's on like Apple News on my phone, like why Pedro Pascal left The Last of Us. And they strayed true to the video game. And so obviously, even me who doesn't didn't watch the show. Knew that he wasn't on. But so it stayed true to the video game, right? Or no?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Walking Dead was the best example of that. The first couple of years when it was really a water cooler show and they would kill off a couple of people and be like, what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4454.566

What's the number one? What's the number one? I can't believe they killed that off, that person off character. It's got to be the guy in Game of Thrones, right? Sean Bean? Sean Bean, yeah. Just like that, they did that. And everyone who read the books knew it was coming. But for somebody like me, it was like, I thought that was the star of the show. It was like, wait, what?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4484.74

Because it was I didn't watch it. I didn't. I came in late. And a couple of people in it was the then Grantland universe. Right. Just hammering me. But it got to the point where it was clearly such a great show and such a phenomenon that it was like, if I like TV, how do I not watch this? It was one of those.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4539.86

Yeah, that's one that I know I have in my back pocket. I never watched The Shield, which has enraged a couple people in my life, but now I feel like that's probably too dated.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4561.096

I know, but I feel like I have to support the Carrie Coon franchise. I was watching, I was watching flipping channels and Eagle Eye was on with Shia LaBeouf and Michelle Monaghan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Much, much younger because it came out 20 years ago. And I was like, wow. There's our girl. She's back. I still feel like attachments to all the characters. Although it seems like our guy, Walton Goggins, is kind of unraveling a little bit.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4607.27

Yeah. I tried to warn you with this. I don't think Mike White likes cold. It's anti-cold.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I don't know where we're going and I don't think they know where they're going, but I don't think it's going to be cold.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4618.775

You're not going to get the Swiss Alps. We're not getting Aspen. We're not getting anything with snow, I don't think.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4632.721

What else is coming? Um, I can't, I, so here's the thing with the bear. I can't do more than two. I, I think that's how you have to treat it. And I think people who binge, you try to watch like five in one night. That's not the show. You can't do it. You're doing the show to service. That's not how it was meant to be written, perceived, consumed anything.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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You know, if I was in charge of FX, I would run one on Sunday night and one on Wednesday night. And I would do a Sunday, Wednesday staggered schedule so people could talk about each one. But then the next one's coming. And that's I just think that would work better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Well, Stranger Things was the other one that just doesn't care. And that's coming to, I think, this summer, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4771.974

The one I'm the most excited about, and God knows when it'll ever finish and it probably won't be 25, is when they figure out Euphoria, especially if they do the moving the characters forward by five years gimmick, which it sounds like they did. Yeah. I've always wanted somebody to do that. I think, did Dawson's Creek do that or some One Tree Hill? One of those shows.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4794.282

Oh, that sounds like a One Tree Hill. The characters got old and they just said, fuck it, and moved everybody forward.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4809.525

Well, the best time hump of all time is Mallory's favorite moment in the history of television, which was the end of the affair with old Dominic West. With the old age makeup. She's never been more delighted about anything that's ever happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

483.989

Well, it was interesting. It seemed like they were going to bench him down the stretch. And we were watching.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4831.82

It's one of our bonds. Yeah. The first season, I would stand by the lore of everything behind the show, behind the scenes of the show.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4840.883

That just became, that would be the greatest oral history, no pun intended, I think, that's ever been written about a TV show. I still don't really know what happened. Euphoria would be a pretty good one too, but...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4859.63

What show are you the most excited about in 25 that hasn't come out yet?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

492.235

And we were watching on the bench. It was like five minutes left. There's a timeout. And Zoo wasn't coming back in. And we were like, wow, he's pissed. Like, he can't believe he's not coming back in. And then I think the Nuggets scored once and Ty Lue was like, all right, get back in. And then he made some big plays down the stretch.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4922.744

Yeah, I wish there was some way to keep like how they have... or rings and Apple watches. Wait, where your eyeballs go during a TV show. It's like, so like a 72% I'm looking at the TV during it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4951.843

And is a big show for me and my wife. Like we do, I think we, there's very few shows we equally like, like the same percentage. And that, White Lotus was another one. But 1923 seems like it's a hang show, but you actually like are, you're, Popping your head up a lot on that one. There's a lot going on. And I thought the actors were really good on this season.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4973.284

I thought the wife character who is trying to get back with her husband.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

4990.839

Interesting. I know he has some Sydney Sweeney movie coming, right? And he's in a movie with the lady from White Lotus that I think already might have come out. The girl from season two.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5006.01

So I think they're trying to make him a thing. Him as Batman though, I don't know. I mean, the one thing with him is I do feel like he's winning fights on 1923. It's like, don't fuck with it. Like he has that kind of energy to him that I think works.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5024.962

Two other shows we didn't mention before we go. Paradise was totally watchable. I thought that was probably a 72, maybe a 67 on my eyeball scale. Definitely could go on eBay and look for stuff and just pop up. And then I didn't watch it. I'm going to, but The Pit. I think was the unexpected surprise hit of the year, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5073.804

And, uh, elevated ER is a great idea. I would have bought that one in the room. Oh, we're doing elevated ER. Done.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5105.421

Yeah, I'll be banging. Once we get through NBA playoffs, when we hit like, mid June, I'm just, that's it. I will be all caught up on all TV by probably mid, mid late July.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

512.152

But I think this platoon piece is a really nice wrinkle for them on the road in a game seven because a couple of things in their favor. One, Denver lost a game seven at home last year, right? It was a year ago. Two, they're a six-man team, maybe six and a half. I've actually kind of enjoyed the DeAndre Jordan just cup of coffee minutes.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5124.855

Am I, I think I'm too old to be on that podcast, but no, we're, we're, Well, first of all, I don't want to jinx it because God only knows with all the people involved in that show if we ever get to the end of a season three filming. But they are filming it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5141.668

The one I'd want to do with you is like the five-year anniversary of The Idol. Diving back in and trying to figure out exactly what happened.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5159.283

I actually don't feel like enough's been made out of them postponing the biggest phenomenon show that they had since basically a non-Game of Thrones. Like just an absolute phenomenon that's peaking on TikTok. And instead of doing season three, the guy's like, can I do this other idea first? And then it just becomes this two and a half year shit show, however long it took.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5181.233

And then it was so bad, they had to basically combine episodes to get out of the season. Like, what are the odds?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5199.207

So you can hear Joanne on House of R with Mallory, as well as Prestige TV podcast, which was a feed. We were basically like, we were holding on to the side of the cliff, hoping for good shows. And then boom, we're having a really good year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5218.137

Thanks for coming on. We are taping this. It is Thursday morning. There's so many storylines in play, big picture, that I had to bring the guy who's seen it all, Bob Ryan, who is the best ever at comparing players, different eras. He's seen everything. What guy do you want to start with? Because I really want your big picture context on some of this stuff.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5240.151

You want to go Anthony Edwards, age 23, taking it to the Lakers, taking down Durant last year, taking down Luke and LeBron this year. What do you see with him?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5304.178

Can I say on Edwards? So World Games was two years ago, and then last year was the big playoff run. Olympics. No, I'm just getting the chronology right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

532.631

I think I've actually been pretty effective, but it's a six and a half man team. And the sixth man is Westbrook, who giveth and taketh every single game. And I do think if Harden and Kawhi play really well, if they stumbled into something or this Batum thing, this is a team that could win on the road. And then you'd think the other hand, You're trusting James Harden in an elimination game seven.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5328.277

Well, you think last year versus this year. Last year was the, whoa, Anthony Edwards, he's here. I can't believe it. I didn't realize he was like, whoa, there's a little Michael Jordan here. This year, even though he sucked in the closeout game last night, he couldn't make a three. But Rudy Gobert said something interesting after that I agreed with because I went to the game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5348.047

He made all the right plays. He wasn't making the threes, but they were the right threes to take. They kept sending these doubles, staggered doubles at him. He usually was making the right decisions. And the truth is, if they had made some threes, they would have won by 30. But I'm with you. I didn't go to the famous game. I know you did, the 63-point game that MJ had.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5368.807

And I hate comparing anyone to MJ. He's the best player I've ever seen. But there are pieces and it's undeniable when you see it in person where you're like, ah, that Connor, just the way he's carrying himself, the way he's easily going by people, the way he easily seems like he's the best athlete in this game. It does bring back some memories. I got to be honest.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5470.615

Yeah. Dennis Johnson is a good one because he had size. He could kind of jump, but he would pick his spots. We got him with the Celtics. It was like a slightly different part of his career because he was so good on Seattle and that, you know, it was a big part of those two finals teams. But the way he would pick his spots, the only person that kind of reminds me of him is Drew.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5490.37

with the way drew has gears during the season and then gears in games. And then in a fourth quarter can elevate a level where he goes from being a role player to being, you could really feel it in the Celtics Orlando series where it's just like, I, I feel like drew. And sometimes I feel like he's the second most important guy in the Celtics for the late game stuff. So he's in the right spots.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5511.742

Can always count and get the right rebound. I always feel like he's going to make a three. He can guard anybody in the other team. And that part reminds me of DJ, I think. But I think you're right. DJ was a one-on-one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

5585.273

Right. Well, you know, another one-on-one, this is a fun combo. Just cause like, I always think about this stuff and you're one of the, I probably learned it from you. I've never seen anyone rebound like Moses, like Moses at his peak. I've never seen anybody, whatever he was doing. I remember writing about in my book where he would go, he'd almost go to the baseline. almost out of bounds.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And then he would just back into people. And I've never seen anyone do that before or since. Like he would just use his ass as this like weapon. And all of a sudden guys were flying backwards and he was right next to the rim. I've just never seen it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, that's what I love. The game four of the Golden State Series, Draymond made that big stop. And then Butler came flying in for this crazy rebound in traffic. And he's just like, I'm getting this rebound. I went to the Laker game last night. And they're just getting killed on the boards. And everybody's just kind of looking around at each other. Like, I don't know. Are you good?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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But nobody was like, shit, I better get some rebounds. You know, like I think about 2010 game seven, Gasol was, you know, really taking it to KG, but Kobe, cause he wasn't making shots. And Kobe's like, I'm just going to have to go get, try to get as many rebounds as I can and came flying in. And that's what swung that game. Yeah. Nobody in the Lakers did that last night.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Everybody was like, Rudy Gobert, I wish we had a center. And you could watch them rolling over in real time. It was kind of crazy. Interesting.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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All right, more guys now and where you see them. Who is Brunson to you? Brunson almost seems like he's at a 1974, like he could have been easily on the Knicks with Walt Frazier.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Do you make anything of the fact that only one team built around a small guy? in the history of the league, has ever won a title?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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My take would be he's like a pitcher who could get about six innings. Maybe six and two-thirds. But I thought the fourth quarter, I thought he wore down a little bit. He's making some weird decisions. The Nuggets had gotten a stop. I think there was like a minute and a half left. And they inbound the ball and Harden dribbles right into a double team. And Ty Lue has to burn a timeout.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, because there was a great book about the Pistons in the late 80s, how they put together that title team with McCloskey called The Franchise. And it was all about them with this conundrum of the league had been around for four decades at that point. Isaiah was their best players, one of the best players in the league, but nobody had ever won with a small guy. So what do you have to do?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And basically the answer was Isaiah had to give up a lot of his offense. lead the team really he could have had 30 a game instead he scored like 22 a game 23 whatever it was and he was trying to get everyone else involved and sometimes I wonder like when I watch Brunson how much he has the ball if he's not like are they better off with him scoring seven less points a game you know

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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How about Luka? First of all, is he a one-on-one? And second, do you think he'll ever understand that balance of, I have to make everybody else better, maybe I don't need to score 35 a game? Where do you see for him from a title standpoint?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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You could see the double team coming seven miles away. And he just kind of... fog-headedly went into it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, I wonder – I'm sure they're going to be talking all summer. Is he going to get in shape?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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You can watch the Rewatchables on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel or as a video podcast on Spotify. You can watch this podcast as a video podcast on Spotify. You can go to the Bill Simmons YouTube channel as well, where we have all the videos, stuff from the last six, seven years.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, the Lakers case hinged on can Luka not get torched on defense? Can we get any rebounds? And how much can we ask from LeBron? And as the series went along, LeBron started to die, especially in these fourth quarters. So you said he's going to be 41 next year during the playoffs. I think that's right.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Like literally the worst place to be double teamed. And he had a couple of those down the stretch where you're thinking like, is this just an old guy who's feeling the miles of the game? Or is this the James Harden stuff we've been watching for his whole career in big spots? Now Kawhi, on the other hand, has come through in a ton of big spots. And I think he had a couple, I got this moments.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, so Havlicek played 16 years. And it seemed like 40 when Havlicek, it was like, oh my God, somebody played 16 years in the NBA. This is impossible. But then probably could have played a couple of years more. Like you were going to those-

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. Cause they always, always stories about how he would come and like, just play with them and scrimmages and stuff when like three, four years later and was still pretty good.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, so... I mean, this is the question with LeBron because we saw it with Brady where he just kept playing in the 2017-18 range. They had Garoppolo and it's like, how long can this go? They need a succession plan. Quarterbacks don't play this long. And then he just kept going and going and going. I do feel like there can be generational freaks. I really wonder how long LeBron can go

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think he could still keep playing, but if he's going to be making $50 million a year as one of your two expensive guys, that's where it becomes problematic, right? Because you're just asking, you're asking for nine months a year, potentially, if you're going to win the finals from this guy that you need to rely on for all these different things because he's in your $50 million spot.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And that's where I don't know what the, it almost seems like the answer might be, maybe he needs to take less And try to boost up the team and think about it that way. But I don't know if he would do that.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But really this, the Clippers, that corner three, which Dunn couldn't make, I think it was 0 for 3. And then Batum and Derek Jones together. I don't know what they finished with, but I looked at one of the timeouts and they were, I think, four for 10. And those four threes they hit were the difference basically in the game, right? They're two for 10 or one for 10.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Plus they make it off the court too, right? Like they can still make up money all these different ways.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, I voted for him second team All-NBA and I stand by it. I just thought he was one of the... I mean, there were a lot of injuries, but... Jason Tatum. What do you see when you see him? Who do you see pieces of with Jason Tatum?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I think the Nuggets probably pulled this up. The other thing, it was a Michael Porter Jr. milk carton game. It was like, is he out there? Oh, no, there he is. It was one of those. And they finally yanked him and Russ got all his crunch time minutes. It felt like they were trying to get him going in the second half.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I agree with you. I've been talking about it all year and then people get mad at me that I'm talking about the Tatum too much. And I just feel like he's made such a leap from two years ago to last year, but then last year to this year where there was, I thought Tatum and Brown last year were one a one B in a lot of ways.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Brown was awesome last year and the distance between them, you know, it was, you never knew who was going to be the best guy in a given game. Now Tatum is clearly the best guy in the team. I think he's, clearly either the third or fourth best guy in the league. And you didn't even talk about how good his defense is and his ability to guard all these different positions.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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But the rebounding is the thing I love the most. He's their best rebounder by far. You take a game like that Minnesota Lakers game last night, he just would have gone under there and battled Gobert and gotten like 14 rebounds because he's like, we're going to lose unless I do this. I think I appreciate that piece of it the most. I just think...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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And you just could see like it was one of his classic no show games, like a good one.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's turned into such a, I don't want to say bully, but there's a toughness to him this year.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, I think this year people will appreciate him more, I think, if this goes a couple more rounds. I think he's going to get...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So I had the, and we're taping this for game six of Clippers Denver. I had the Clippers in that conversation and just, I must've had amnesia with James Harden. I just, I just, I think I just forgot. I don't know. Maybe I blocked it out of my mind or whatever. And it's like, what am I doing? Of course, of course, they're not making the finals with, uh, with James Harden. I should have known.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Um, let's, let's take a quick break and then, uh, we'll come back. I want to talk about Jokic. All right, we're talking history, current NBA, got to talk Jokic. I went to the game Saturday when he just would not let them lose against the Clippers and basically played the whole game and just did everything. And it was a man absolutely possessed. And it was...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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It was up there for me with LeBron in game six in 2012 and some of the Jordan stuff I'd seen in person. Just when I'm thinking about the best players I've ever seen in person, this moved him just being at that game and just being like, oh my, I can't believe how good this guy is. Where do you put him? I never thought we'd see another Bill Walton. I never thought we'd see another Bird.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And yet there's pieces of both of those guys in a lot of the stuff he's doing. And he's also doing way more than that. But when you watch him, did you ever think we'd see anything like this ever?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, Russell and I talked about this a little on Sunday, that this whole theory that he's just going to retire when he's 34 and be done with it. After going to that game on Saturday, I don't believe it. The guy's too competitive. You don't shut that off. Like, he was an absolute full-fledged maniac in that game. And just in general, like...

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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You know, there's pieces, like obviously there's some Walton. There's a lot of Bird. One of the things that him on defense reminds me a lot, Bird always had the reputation of being not a good defense player. Meanwhile, he made all defenses and was always up there in steals.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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But his ability, Jokic's ability to read what the other team's going to do on offense and know what they're doing in advance and then fuck it up basically before, as they're doing it, jumping in these spots where they're like, oh, I didn't know somebody was going to be there. He's just, his brain's always moving. It's in person. It's unbelievable.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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I never thought after Bird of Magic, I never thought I would see somebody that processed a game like that. You know, to me, that's the standard.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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So you have, you have like, there's that Hakeem Moses Shaq kind of area, right? Maybe Giannis is like right underneath it. And you already have Jokic in that area, potentially looking at that spot right under Wilt and Kareem.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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All right, so we go. Your whole premise that I loved, we're playing the aliens and we can grab anybody. And Jokic, Jokic, Bird and Magic agree to come. Now we need to find two more guys to put with those three where we're just like, we're just going to have the aliens backpedaling, not knowing what's happening. Just amazing passing. Who are the other two people playing with Jokic, Bird and Magic?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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If Maravich had a three-point line, are we talking about him in the 60s and 70s like we talk about Curry?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And there's a real home. I said this Sunday too. There's a real home court with the Clippers that I just can't believe exists.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He also would have taken more of them, though, because if he knew there were three instead of two, he's taking 20 a game.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Well, he's more as the weapon. It was like either to get the crowd going or to demoralize people.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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You know, and it's not going to swing a game like they lost game four at home. It's not like it was deciding the game, but there's a real energy. And when, you know, the crowd really likes Norm Powell. And when he gets going, as they should, but when he hits a couple, it's like an electric shock for the crowd. Like they're really, really, and that's probably when they get the most excited.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Where do you put Giannis in all of this? Because he just got knocked out of the first round again.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And listen, they give up a lot of assets for Drew Holiday and then Dame Lillard. And that's it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I'm hoping Doc comes back on my podcast. Milwaukee has no first-round picks that they control of their own over the next five years, which makes the tanking a little bit harder. I got one more guy for you. Yeah. SGA is another guy who feels like he easily could have existed in 1974, right?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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This podcast, so I'm taping this before I went to Clippers Nuggets Game 6, which we're going to talk about with Rob Mahoney. We're going to talk about Nick's Pistons as well. Joanna Robinson, his podcast partner on Prestige TV. She came on with me to talk about the year in TV so far because it's been awesome. We tried to do as unspoilery a conversation as we possibly could.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And then the other one is Kawhi will have a couple moments. He has those stretches where he just like, he'll hit like three shots in a row or he'll hit like two shots and get a steal and block it. And he'll just take over the game for like three minutes. And I think the crowd now has a sense for when that's happening.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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He's... So you have... I can come up with... You have OKC still as the favorite because Vegas would agree with you.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Is this Celtics team, where is it creeping up on the popularity rankings in Boston? It just seems like people love, you know, they have a real history now with Tademan Brown because those guys grew up on the team. Porzingis is a cult hero. Horford is among the most popular role player plus guys they've ever had. Holiday and White are impossible not to like.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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And on the flip side, you know, I think Jokic had maybe 18 in the first half and finished with 25, but it's just continually terrifying. At top of the key, whatever sort of, and they're sending one guy, they're sending two guys, Batum's just standing behind him, just whacking him on the side. I always felt like he was going to score.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah. It's just, you go on and on. It's like, everybody loves everybody on this team. I don't remember many teams like this on the Celtics.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, and it's something that, I mean, I certainly grew up with where everybody stayed on the same teams. And then in the last 15 years, that kind of got blown up and people move around more. And you have something like Jokic in Denver, you have Curry in Golden State, or you have Brown and Tatum together in Boston with Horford. And I do think it's more meaningful now

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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to the fan base and to the people at the games. They have real history with these guys, you know? And like, we tried to capture some of that in the Celtic city about these generations, how they overlap and how people buy in and people overlap with the stars from the previous generation. And does this stuff actually exist? And I do think those guys care about that. I think Missoula cares about it.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Ray Allen was like, I'm a Celtic. He only played five years. And he's like, I am a Celtic. I consider myself a Celtic.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Wow. I'm probably one of the only ones that's going to get that one. What's the Larry Siegfried part?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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So every time he didn't score or they turned the ball over or blocked, it felt like almost a miracle. I think in Denver, I don't know if they're getting some of those mauling calls on Jokic, but.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Before we go, you were a big part of Celtic City. So we did nine episodes. We tried to cover 80 years of the team. When you saw all of it laid out, episode by episode, what were you expecting? And then how did you feel as you watched it?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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Yeah, we tried to hit that. I mean, that episode, not exactly a feel-good episode, but that 90s Boston, how dark it got. Like the garden got knocked down, Bias and Reggie, the Red Sox.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Yeah, the sad thing, you talked about earlier how you don't judge players by championships. You look at KG, like, just this completely misused asset in Minnesota forever. Like, gets drafted in 95. We head to 2007. He's won two playoff series. And meanwhile, everybody's like, I think he might be the best player in the league. Like, nobody even knew how to put him in context.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Cause he just had such bad luck. His owner gets penalized for the Joe Smith signing and they lose like three first round picks in a low, like, like Stefan Marbury just decides he wants to go to New Jersey. And that happens. Like it's just, there's 30 different things that prevented him from ever succeeding in the NBA in the way he should have, which sometimes that's how it plays out.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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He's one of the main reasons I decided to write a basketball book because I didn't want people 50 years from now to be putting him in the top 10 because of his stats. It's like, we got to fix this. Somebody's got to go on the record.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Your other guy like that was Elvin Hayes. Who ends up winning the title, but he's, wasn't he like benched in the fourth quarter when they actually won the title? I forget the story.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, you've been watching this forever. These centers, once the injuries start, it's not like it gets better.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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once you know they're like buildings with like real structural foundation problems and then at some point it becomes a problem and it feels like it's like once you've had a few of those surgeries injuries whatever i don't know i just don't when you're seven foot two i don't know how you like oh no i'm fine you know i don't see it yeah big guys yeah you're right you're right it's a good point so like i saw kairi irving at the laker game yesterday right and he tore his acl

The Bill Simmons Podcast

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Well, this was the dream for a bunch of different reasons, especially we would not have had basketball on Saturday. It's true. Group chat depends on that game. So how, how did that shake out that way? No contingency plans there where we're just not going to have games on Saturday, May, May 3rd or whatever day that is. That was a thing that was going to happen. Um,

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A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

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I feel like he can come back. He's six, two, like, you know, he's a guard. He can, I feel like he can bring back his movement and get back in here. But when you, you know, you've had a bunch of these anyway. All right. Well, that was a really fun hour. I'm glad we caught up. I needed your take on a bunch of stuff, Bob Ryan.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

8716.226

Um, thanks for being Celtic city, by the way, but great to see you as always hope all as well.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

8724.727

All right. Thanks to Mahoney and Joanna and Bob. Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as well. You can watch this on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can also watch this as a video podcast on Spotify going forward. We are going to be live on Sunday at some point. We don't really know the basketball schedule yet, but it's going to be me and Rosillo at some point on Sunday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

8745.785

And we'll be going live on YouTube for that. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

8765.771

Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in D.C. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or visit

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

891.983

So the over under on that game on FanDuel, I always love game sevens. And I think this is going to keep going down. I think the over today was 213. The over for game seven is 204.5. And I bet that goes under 200. Yeah. Because game sevens, game sevens, rock fights, tense, slows down. People don't really take chances in the same way. Every single thing is careful. Careful, ugly.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

918.967

You're not getting Derek Jones hitting four threes in the corner. You're not getting any of that stuff. And, you know, a lot of it will depend on how much they're letting both teams get away with. I think the more they officiate the game, the better that probably is for Denver because of the way Jokic plays.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

935.439

Do you think either of these teams is better than Minnesota from what we've seen for two weeks?

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

939.722

Now, the Minnesota thing is interesting because The Lakers just might be this like incredibly flawed team that made Minnesota look really good. They have no center. They don't really have a point guard. They had Luca gets hurt halfway through game five and just can't guard anybody or bounce off anybody. I thought, I really thought he was a little compromised.

The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Clips-Nuggets Slugfest, Brunson’s Heroics, Best 2025 TV Shows and NBA Then and Now With Rob Mahoney, Joanna Robinson and Bob Ryan

957.943

LeBron wore out, I think after four games and Minnesota might not be as good as they looked last night. Who do you, if you had to rank the three, who, how would you rank them?

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)

1455.971

Dan, I have told you, Patrick, I have told Dan this a number of times. It is always better to watch your kid do it than do it yourself. So I am guessing you're totally fine with your son being the best cornerback in the family.

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)

1748.985

Patrick, I'm wondering what it was like playing for your dad in high school, knowing that you were better than he was.

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)

1838.378

Patrick Sr., I coached my daughter in lacrosse for like 10 years, and she ended up going to Northwestern. It's like the Alabama of women's lacrosse, okay? And so, Patrick Sr., I am wondering if you did this because I did it all the time. I would go out of my way to yell at my daughter because I wanted to save face with the rest of the team. Did you?

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)

2160.911

Eric Moulds, two times a season. Like, get the hell out of here. What are you doing? You're insulting the man.

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 2: Would You Give Josh Gad Your Kidney? (feat. Patrick Surtain & Patrick Surtain II)

500.978

I officially think Pittsburgh's the best team in the AFC. Come on. You can't after a Jameis game. You can't claim that. I think they're the best team. I feel the safest about them if you start nitpicking all these AFC teams. Really? I feel the most comfortable with Pittsburgh.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1025.863

I love guy talk. Terrible at his job. Terrible. Should not be working this job.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1031.41

When Fabian's like, but like, who's in the booth?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1035.415

Terrible. So you think like a couple minutes?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1057.009

Just walks right out. On the one hand, doesn't have the balls. On the other hand, at the White Lotus, like we hear from Fabian later when he's talking to Belinda, you have to be like so delicate with these people. So I think he was trying to give Tim the opportunity to just like leave the gun on the counter and walk away and we can all pretend that this never happened.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1074.04

You know, like that kind of handling.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1139.47

Yeah. Yeah. Mallory, I know you related to several people inside of this episode.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1143.651

I'm so excited to talk to you about it. In frankly shocking fashion. What does that mean?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1149.094

Did you relate to Fabian when he said, I have antacid if your stomach upset, I get digestion issue when I'm nervous. I did.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1188.225

Lorazepam. She's going to have to drink herself to sleep.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1195.327

With apparently withdrawals from lorazepam are like intensive and kind of immediate. So I don't know what's going to happen to Vicky over the next couple of days because she was like chewing those things down. By the way, I also found out that apparently lorazepam is sweet and just dissolves on your tongue. So we don't have to worry about Tim taking them dry.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1215.471

They're just a sweet little candy. I'd like to apologize to Tim Rattler for that and that alone.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1236.657

Bill Clinton wrote books. Hillary Clinton wrote five books. The list goes on. That just absolutely killed me. No, but everything she's... She thinks they're in Taiwan. That was a revelation. It's insane. But when... Piper says, okay, I lied to you. I'm not here for my thesis. I'm here to check out.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1262.894

She says, the reason I wanted to come here was to check it out, and I did. And I really like it. Piper, you briefly walked through the monastery once. What do you mean you checked it out and you liked it? Literally the equivalent of watching one Instagram reel. Yeah, exactly.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1289.772

Shelter girls like you are constantly getting brainwashed and turned out.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1294.674

Someone needs to take Vicky's like the Netflix documentaries away from Vicky. Yeah, absolutely.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1307.156

I was going to say that's a class. It sounds like Vicky should have a podcast.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1310.357

Mike White, son of a son of a preacher. But like, you know, the Catholics, I guess, are. Open season.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1352.748

Also, yeah, I think the one extra layer of that is that I think also she's right. That's what I think is also true about Vicky here. Not that they're in Taiwan, obviously. And not that you can't explore Buddhism or whatever, but the fact that Piper has not put enough thought into this. Yeah, for sure. Yes.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1388.171

Have you been enjoying the clip of Parker Posey from like It's Good Morning America or whatever? I saw that.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1394.619

She's like, hopper. No. Buddhism. Yeah. It's great.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1399.362

I think everyone has come all the way back around on all of the accent work on this show.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1489.085

Something that, yeah, something that Jason Isaac said on the official podcast, he was talking about how, first of all, Piper is his favorite child. Clearly. Is Tim's favorite. Yeah. That he, that she can do no wrong, that anything she wants, she's like the princess, she can have whatever she wants, which is, by the way, what Saxon accused her of earlier. Yep. And then also that like,

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1508.032

All of this is bullshit. He's like, she's not staying here. Saxon's not going back to the office. Like none of, nothing is happening for them in the future as far as Tim is concerned right now. But here's my question for you. And Rob and I did talk about this.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1524.336

On a show like White Lotus where there's never consequences for the extremely rich, do you think there's a possibility that this whole thing hounding Tim just like blows over before the season's over?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1550.746

I don't know. I just like, Mike White just like really likes to let rich people off the hook as a commentary for the fact that rich people get off the hook all the time. So, you know.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1561.623

I like it. To, like, watch him spin out for a week and then nothing happens.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1616.543

We heard from a lot of listeners that occasionally, apparently most men in the UK are not circumcised. So we got a lot of emails saying that.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1628.254

Oh, interesting. However, Mallory has a counter move, which is... Jason Isaacs is a Jewish man.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1656.327

You guys go and I'll tell you the answer. Okay, so... The episode four has aired. I just want to say really quickly.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1662.674

I just want to say really quickly. Thank you for that. I just want to say really quickly. The amount of restraint that we have shown for the sake of content, not asking you right away what the answer was, but said, reveal it on the pod, Bill. We've been very patient.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1711.753

Yeah. Devastating. Geez. Thanks for doing that research though, Bill. I really appreciate you getting to the bottom of things. What does that go big or go home quote mean then? What is that about? It's been a prosthetic every season, right? It was prosthetic for Steve Zahn and Steve Zahn. Yeah, exactly.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1729.63

Yeah, you really were. However, Vlad in this episode... Right. That's got to be real. That thing was swinging.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1759.559

Or do you actually have to hold your dick to shake it? I cannot wait to see what your husband texts you about this episode. And my question is, is next week finally going to be the episode where Mallory doesn't make hand gestures? I mean, it depends on what, you know, the show gives us to work with.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1827.366

It went exactly how we said from the beginning, which is that Jacqueline was going to push Valentin on Laurie and then fuck him herself. A number of episode one predictions bore fruit here in episode five.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1845.789

That really made me laugh. Honestly, he's really great. I'm really obsessed with your, like, Arnold Schwarzenegger Russian accent. It's just the same accent for all countries.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1877.48

I wouldn't die. Okay, I have multiple things about this. First of all, I think underrated greatness actually is Leslie Bibb's terrible dancing. Oh my God, the face. Skate.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1887.869

Great stuff. Carrie Coon, great dancer. There are some moves that were a little like... Julia Stiles saved the last dance little like top that teen witch.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1898.039

A little like. Yeah. White girl hip hop. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1926.561

She's like, yeah. No, she was like, they were like looking and like laughing and stuff like that. It was very much like Jacqueline at the retiree pool is the way those girls were looking at her. And so then she was just like, yeah, it's like, look at those old women dancing with those guys.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1942.331

And so she just, yeah, she just like smeared herself on Alexi and on, and grabbed Valentin to be like, I'm hot and I deserve to be out here. That was my interpretation of what that was.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

195.772

Also Galaxy Quest. Yeah. Incredible Galaxy Quest.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1965.152

Especially when they were like pressuring Kate.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

1987.335

deeply relate. I think we should just go to bed. Time to go to bed. Mallory and I were like, that's us. And she's, she's lodging her objections. She's like, should we just call it a night? Like, haven't we done enough? And Jacqueline doesn't even dignify this with a response or a conversation because Jacqueline's like, this is my vacation and you're just my sidekicks.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2006.49

So whatever I want to have happen is what's going to happen.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2037.482

Jacqueline, who is, like, passed out.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2086.474

Well, I think they said it was their friend who was fighting.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2124.723

First of all, I want to say, Alexi, I'm really disappointed because I think he promised us that snake tattoo went all the way down.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2137.251

Barely anywhere. But as you mentioned their muscles, I looked it up. Julian, who plays Alexi, Julian Kostov, holds over 60 medals as a professional swimmer, including a bronze medal at the Balkan Games 2007. And then Arnas, who plays Valentin. Is that on WB?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

215.089

No, he has a supporting actor Oscar. Mike White once again mining the supporting actor field for... He goes on Wiki and just looks at the supporting categories.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2152.741

I would watch the Vulcan games. That sounds interesting to me. And Ernest, who plays Valentin, is a boxer. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2182.017

I think he's just like, this is, okay, we met all those criminals on the yacht and their young girlfriends. This is the idea that this is a haven for criminal activity. People who are criminals who are escaping the repercussions come to the White Lotus.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2201.928

He's like, yeah, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2210.084

No, no, I think he's just like... He just doesn't want anything to be ruffled. He's like, you might be mistaken. We shouldn't be gossiping about guests. P.S. He's not a guest, but okay, Fabian. Yeah. Some of the guests have colorful pasts, right? So it's just like... But then he ends it with, I think you'll survive.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2228.004

That very insidious evil where he's not like a villain villain. He just wants everything to be calm and does not want to ruffle any feathers.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

225.375

Who's next? But yeah, I think this is a perfect casting because you can definitely... Sam Rockwell and Wong Goggins feel like they're just pals. And we mentioned before that Sam Rockwell... That Leslie Bibb is his partner. So it's just like couples that film in Thailand together. Stay together? I don't know. What a fun family excursion for them. Chamomile tea and pajamas at the pool party.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2323.449

Something didn't sit right with him. It doesn't help that this guy recently played a notorious film Nazi, right? Oh, interesting. That vibe doesn't help. Okay.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2416.009

But I also just love when she was like, blah, blah, Greg, and he's like, Gary? Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2432.42

But on a scale of one to ten, how is there might be a murderer after me? There's a giant lizard in my...

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2481.2

Great. Finally. Just brothers being brothers. Brotherly love.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2500.398

She likes that innocent look and how they shake. Little rabbits.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2507.822

She's a riot. She's great. I'm a fresh breeze, baby. Mere hours before he's going to smooch his brother.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2540.091

Another death. Well, it's two things.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2548.896

But that line was about Chelsea. Yeah. She was like, you're a romantic. Every model that I knew was a romantic wound up broke or broken hearted or dead.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2616.383

That's not my take on Chelsea at all. You think she's materialistic?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

262.765

I think even if he's in the rest of the season, he can go for the guest actor, which is the easier one to get and what he should go for.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2632.367

I think that we have a broken hearted or worse than she was like, what's worse? What's worse than being broken hearted?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2657.253

I just think I really do think that Chelsea's motivation is like this hippie soul connection.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2683.254

I was going to say. Yeah, it's a Gretzky. What's that one? Very sporty. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Yeah. That's a sports quote. Sure is. And I knew it. Just wanted everyone to know.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2704.849

Favorite moment. That was great. That's the sort of my understanding. Please do email me if I get Buddhism wrong. But like the idea of Buddhism is every life you purify yourself towards nirvana. So the idea is like, each time, sort of like quantum leap, you're trying to be a better, like each time you're trying to be a better person.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

274.753

I think if I had to guess, I don't know. I would say he's in like two, three, but he's not coming back to the White Lotus with them. This is a character that stays in Bangkok. So if Rick's coming back to the White Lotus, I don't think he's coming with them.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2744.079

Here's what I thought was like the most, there's a lot of telling three. And which one are you on?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2751.338

Which one are you on? That sounds kind of nice.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2762.245

One day I'm going to take you down is what Lachlan says to Saxon. Yeah. And there's something in their dynamic that is just sort of like he is attracted to his brother. I think we've known that since episode one in its own way. But also like

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2778.041

hates his brother do you know like that's in the mix this idea of like I want to be you I want to have sex with you possibly and also it's a very White Lotus sort of like Jackie Shawna thing and also just like I hate you you're constantly tormenting me at the same time you know

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2859.463

I was going to ask a creepy question about it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2892.259

Big dog on the space cat. Space cat is the name of the boat, but he of course is the big dog.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2897.961

160 K a week to charter the space cat.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2916.855

Just spinning out of control sort of thing.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2926.967

Should have hung up with them. Instead, she wanted to tell them what a badass lawyer she is. That was amazing.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2956.945

Before she went to scratch her ass and snore a little bit. The dance. She was like feeling herself so much. It was very sad. It really sucks. Jacqueline sucks. She does.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

2995.927

Is this where the night ends? That's my question.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

3.65

Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to brew up two new flavors, Thai iced coffee and piña colada flavored creamers.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

3077.787

Googling HBO incest moments. I didn't have to Google any of it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

3106.448

But Lockie goes back in for the longest.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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I usually hate these exercises, but I will say this. If the genders are switched in this scene, this is like one of the most horrific things. If a girl was, like, rubbing her eyes and drugged out of her mind and there were two guys on the couch laughing and sort of, like, cheering and all this like that, that is horrifying. This is horrifying.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Like, it's... It's, like... And I like that... I don't like it, but I like that a character like Saxon, a character...

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Here's my main question, because I actually have no doubt in my mind that some upsetting combination of people are about to have sex on this boat. Schwarzenegger posted a great thing on Twitter where it's like him and Sam DiBolo who plays Lachlan. It's just the two of them. He's like, what bad could happen on a boat? Hmm. The question... Actually, my question right now is, is Chelsea involved?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Because I would like Chelsea to not be involved. You know what I mean?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Because, like, Chelsea... I would like no one to be involved. I would clearly not like brothers to have sex on the boat or whatever. Yeah, let's go to bed.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Kate was right. Kate is always not. Maybe not about the election. Not about the election.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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But I think that like Chelsea, Chelsea calling Rick and him not picking up and then Rick calling Chelsea and her not picking up. That shot is so good when, like, it's the phone. And then, like, Chloe's, like, legs in the air and stuff like that. But, like, is Chelsea going to do something she regrets on this boat?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Well, that's where the stakes are high.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Mike White thinks it's... Was it? No. Who was it then? Definitely not. Who was it? Probably Quinn. Mike White thinks it's Belinda this season. That's who he says is the moral compass. What? No, it wasn't.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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She goes back to Jane. She went back to her husband who she didn't love because she... Felt bad for her. Well, sure. I felt bad for her until she went back to Shane.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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But then I lose my- That's going to be Chelsea. Maybe. Wow. Maybe.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Definitely back. Gives him the bag with the gun. Yeah. Yeah. Has to play the director in the con.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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But it's up there. No, I mean it. And also just visually a very, very cool shot. I was just talking to our pal Sean fantasy. in the hall about like the visuals of White Lotus this season. I think this episode in particular. Did he mention anything about color grading? He didn't, but you know, I could tell that he wanted to.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Well, so when he was, yeah, when he was talking to Sitala back when he was originally starting his con, he's like, I got a friend who's a director in Bangkok.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Wow. Well, no, no, but he lost his identity because, like, his identity was, I'm a big swinging dick, I'm, like, the provider, I'm the dad, I'm... leader at the club, I'm a pillar of the community, I cover his lineage, and now I'm nothing. I'm poor, I'm broke.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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She said, just come on in. That's what she said. She said, just come straight to the villa. Yeah. And she has an overnight guest.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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They used to party together. Yeah. They used to party wild together.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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No, but like all of the color, the neons, the like flashing lights in the full moon party and the pool party. I don't know what their light system was. at the pool party, but it looked amazing. But in that scene, in the Goggins-Rockwell scene, there's, like, this wide shot where they're all sort of, like, doubled exposure on top of each other. On the mirror. Yeah. That was really cool.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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This and that. This and that. Okay, yeah. So Sam Rockwell's Californian. And I was just curious. Walton Goggins, Southern boy.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Shock and like not dismay, but like shock people. Shock people with two brothers kissing. Shock people with this monologue from Sam Rockwell. And I'm still trying to figure out like I love this show. I'm still trying to figure out what it is Mike White is trying to do with this. Like he's given interviews about it, but like this idea that he wants to make queer sex transgressive and shocking.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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I still don't fully understand what his motivation is behind it, but that is something that he wants. What do you call it? Borderline edgelord mentality is what he called it about himself. And so I just think that's provoking.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Am I the son of a vague do-gooder, like this sort of thing? Am I the son of Jim Hollinger, something that he might discover when he comes face-to-face with him? Or can I choose to be something else, which is what Amrita was suggesting to him. It's like, you can break this karmic cycle. You don't have to do this right now.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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But also that gun is in that room. I think it's also really interesting that like he, both he and Chelsea have this like, Chelsea has a speech to Chloe where she's like, Rick is always walking around like a sad sack, like everything, you know, she's like, bad things have happened to me. You don't see me walking around complaining about it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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First of all, we don't know anything about Chelsea's life at all.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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So, like, what did happen to her? And also, she's throwing herself a little bit of a pity party in that moment while she's saying, you don't see me complaining at all. She's complaining right now. And then we see Tim here at the end of the episode be like, I've had all this pressure on me my whole life. There's never been a minute where I haven't been expected to, you know, achieve. From day one.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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That was a really cool shot. That was awesome.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Yeah, from day one. And it's just sort of like, my God, this lack of self-awareness running around.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Well, this is the theme of a lot of the visions we've seen in the opening credits of like, Vulnerable animals actually becoming like sort of predators, which I think is interesting. And then the predator becoming the prey.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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So if you think about like Saxon in his sort of like alpha predator mode at the beginning of the season and then like he's just stumbling around bleary eyed saying don't take advantage of me inside of this episode. I think that's really interesting and upsetting. And I am very nervous. Can I run one theory by you that I think is interesting?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. It's a shootout. Yeah. Let's say it's not monkeys. Okay.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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What if Belinda- Gets in touch with Interpol. I don't know how, but like calls the authorities on Greg Gary.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Tim thinks the authorities are there for him. The feds are there for him. Rick thinks the authorities are there for him because of whatever happens in Bangkok. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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A day and another day or two for them to show up. My theory is a theory that's floating around. But I like this idea of the authority.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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I was really impressed. I like the theory that the authority show up and there's so many different people who could be like, oh, shit. Right. The feds are here.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Yep. All the expats on the yacht. Oh yeah, the Russians could be like, oh no, the cops are here because we smashed and grabbed the boutique.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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We talked about this earlier, this idea of, like, is Rick open to some sort of spiritual awakening? Is Tim open to some sort of spiritual awakening?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Yeah, but, like, is Tim Ratliff the last person on our list? Well, actually, Saxon's my last, but he was, like, the second-to-last person on my list of someone who might have a spiritual awakening at the White Lotus. Is he about to have some sort of moment?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Sure. Who's your least redeemable White Lotus character?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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But also Chelsea and Chloe are right there.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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To be like, here's your gun. Bye. Like, that's not what this is. Another Chekhov's gun has entered the chat. Yeah, yeah. In a really nice leather duffel. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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I still could make that choice. My thing on this is like, If they go further than this, if we get a Challengers or an Ito Mama Tambien sort of situation, there is no coming. That is with you for the rest of your life. Because those two things you mentioned are not brothers. Right. They're transgressive in their own right, but it's not two brothers. Very close friends. Yeah. Very close friends.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Matching men. Let's do matching men.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Fight Night's a really good call. I think I love a con personally. So whatever that's going to be. And I love Scott Glenn. So.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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That's what you want to know. And Tim. You're just dying for a monastery tour.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Yeah, I will say we can get to this later if we want to. But when he was like, I looked great. I was like, have we ever seen Sam Rockwell in drag before? And I couldn't find anything. But Walton Goggins, of course, like very famously was in drag for his appearance on Sons of Anarchy. played this great character, Venus Van Damme.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Looked amazing, actually. And I was just like, Sam, I would like you to put your money where your mouth is. Again, we have three episodes left. I would like to see the evidence.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Can I float a theory by you? Yeah. Well... Rob and I were talking about this about in previous seasons of White Lotus with Armand and Tanya, we never have a character who dies who has like strong emotional attachments to other characters because you don't want to end the White Lotus season on like a grieving family. That's not something they've ever done before.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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You've never had anyone at the airport montage at the end like actively majorly grieving. Right. So will he do something different this season? Maybe. But if any of the Ratliffs died, if Rick or Chelsea died, that would be such a bummer note to end a season that is usually sort of like tragicomic.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Oh, in terms of the opening. Yeah, yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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You think everyone dies at the end of the season.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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I disagree with both of you. I think Piper... is going to decide she wants to live with privilege. She's going to fall back in with her family. That's what happens on White Lotus. She doesn't want to be a Buddhist.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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I know. He couldn't jack it. So that once a 16-year-old loses their porn iPad. So did Lachlan. Lachlan lost his iPad. So that was my second thing.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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This idea that like the whole Sam Rockwell monologue is, a lost person trying to figure out who they are. Who am I? And where can I find that? Can I find it having sex with thousands of women, dressing up differently, or Buddhism and sobriety, I guess. And then Tim Ratliff... Who's praying to his Christian God at the end of this episode wants to know, what should I do?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Which is like a callback to what Saxon said earlier, where there's like two kinds of people in this world. They're people who just want to be told what to do. And so like, who am I? What should I do? These are the big questions. These are what we search for answers for inside of spirituality. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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He ended up on the other side of that guidance. He usually is the drug. I don't need drugs. I am the drug.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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Well, yeah, just Jacqueline being a person who needs to feel vital, young, have attention. But this is something you think he's trying to say something bigger with that?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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And I think also, I really agree with you. And I think also this idea that at the White Lotus, when you're at the White Lotus, you have achieved so much luxury. You have had so many desires in your life fulfilled. Every desire you could possibly want is probably filled. And how existential, how lost are you when that happens to you? How lost are so many of these privileged people?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

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And so for Jacqueline, who has so much to just need that much more, or for Sam Rockwell to have like, fucked his way through Bangkok. And he's just like, and yet I need more. I feel hollow. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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So you're convinced every time there's somebody on the phone it's a famous actor or actress?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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We'll take a break. Then we're going to rip through the episode. We open with a Parker Posey dream sequence.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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this is what it looks like before a tsunami.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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And then Lockie's there with like, Lockie's there.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Husbands on the balcony having urgent... I just don't think she's curious enough as a spouse. I don't care how many secrets you're burying in a marriage. You're going to notice when it hits this kind of tipping point where there's something clearly horrible happening.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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But it's not even a question. Something's clearly going on.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Is the show now self-aware that we're going to become attached and concerned for the characters, and now that's why six are in play?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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So apparently it's a certain, Dave was telling me about it today when I did the thing with him. It's a certain Southern draw, but there's like a weird British piece

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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It's a big passion point for the cast, I think, that they actually spent an incredible amount of time figuring this out.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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So I don't think it's as simple as like if it was a Boston or a Rhode Island accent where I would just be like, that's not right. Nothing simple about a Rhode Island accent.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Yeah. Wow. They played the card this episode, that's for sure. By the way, they said it was at the next resort over.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Or just ends with a tsunami. Everyone just gets wiped out. And then everyone dies in a tsunami. Except Naomi Watts, who manages to hold on to a piece of glass. And Tom Holland. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Yeah. Well, at the family breakfast, we get stuff like... Dude, these breakfasts look great.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I have never seen such lush colors.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I'm just deeply compelled. This is why Mallory and I can't be on White Lotus, because in this breakfast, we're getting stuff like dreams might not predict the future, but they're a window into something. Yeah. We all dream about fires. Mallory and I would just be like... Where's the half and half? We just wouldn't be coherent for like a half hour until the coffee kicks in.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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These people are just having full philosophical conversations.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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And Lori's like, you got nothing but time.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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You got nothing but time. Probably the best backhanded compliment of the series so far.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Wild stuff. The dad's on Robin, can't stop looking at his phone. We find out the FBI's in his office with a warrant.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I wrote down... This is a pretty great, my life is falling apart in slow motion sequence for a TV show that I can't remember who else did anything like this.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Well, think about him in the first episode where he's like this aggro, like just, I've seen this guy in a TV show and then by the end of the third episode, he's a sleeping pill chugging fucking maniac.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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That's a good point. Who survived the shower camp shot? I don't think so. Yeah, nobody.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Well, now that you've apologized about your feelings on his accent.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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So you go Isaac Emmy corner number one right now. Over Goggins?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I think Goggins is... But I think... Goggins has shown more stuff already in three episodes. He's done... I don't know.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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So I interpreted it completely different than you. Tell me. The Tim Ratliff and the son. I think the whole thing, it's like, this is the classic, yeah, you're going to take over the business, but the son really has nothing to do. He said multiple times.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Like, I don't like, yeah, but the office needs me and it made him feel important. Oh, yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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He says, you're going to have a phenomenal career. I can see it. I know it. There's literally no evidence other than that your son's a jackass. But if all of this father-son stuff feels really fake and like, I had this company, my son, whatever, I'm going to shoehorn him in. And it's funny because he's nipple babying.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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But Patrick Schwarzenegger, who we talked about, and that kind of became a little bit of a story this week with the nipple baby thing. I just think he's really good.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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And as we talked about in a previous episode, he's half Arnold, who's a performer and a charismatic guy. It makes sense to me he would be a good actor.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Your own reality. But the son has no insight in the business was the thing that became clear. But he loves to work.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Like if we were all hanging out doing like a ringer retreat and the whole day I was just on my phone freaking out and you were like, can I help? Can I help? And I was just like, like there's some sort of power move with that. That it's like, I don't even want to discuss what's going on here. You can't help. That's why the Sonny's got some fake office on the side and he's not doing anything.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I think all this shit's intentional.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I just think Piper Ratliff sounds like the perfect rich kid name.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Although we did call him Saxton with a T for half of one episode.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I think Joanna started it and then I took it around with it. I won't. Except for him. Well, we also have Lockheed shows the data tsunami video and Saxon got a blender. That was our big things.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Mentioning it. Yeah. Another character mentioning, well, you've had two near-death experiences already.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Nobody's been more excited to get a blender. He's fucking jacked.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I think Pam is in the running for most underrated performance of the season. I love Pam. Incredible. She's perfect at that.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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okay yeah since the beginning how wonderful for you how wonderful for you when she looks in the bag yeah this isn't even that much right carrot when she has the stare down of him like are you gonna put your phone in there that was great you know so I had some nitpicks with that okay what do you got people didn't turn off their phones first thing you're doing is turning off the phone oh yeah

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Not just so it's turned off, but also for the battery.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Tim's using a 2012 Samsung. I don't know what phone that was. Not only was it not an iPhone, but I don't know what that was.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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Oh, the feds come shoot out with the dad?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

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I just want to say there's no scenario where I give up my phone for five days.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1804.654

There's no vacation scenario that exists where I would be like, yep, no phone five days.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1823.393

Oh, Mal, I like this. So he breaks in, but then there's something else in there.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1833.686

Is it Guy Talk or Gay Talk? Was I saying that wrong? I think it's Guy Talk. I think it's Guy Talk. We were all saying it wrong.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1844.621

Well, we had Goggins, the matron.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1853.19

I have a guy in Bangkok. You're going to be in Bangkok? Yeah. Would you love a meeting?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

187.833

So Stevie Nicks oversprings. She's doing it. I'm probably, if you want to do our, I wasn't going to start the pot this way, but as well, our most worried about character power rankings. Sure. Gay talk's number one for me. I just feel like he's going to be dead unless, not a spoiler alert because everyone's seen episode three, unless he's involved in the robbery. Oh, no.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1907.137

I'm going to keep calling her the matron. That's fine.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1910.218

I feel like I'm in the right group for this question. So Ares and a Scorpio. Did either of you have thoughts on this?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1920.367

How big of a horoscope person are you?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1927.01

I feel like Joanna could be stealthy in a tiny bit.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1935.294

I'm always jealous of the horoscope people. I feel like they do have this extra perspective.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1942.877

I'm Libra, which I'm like a classic Libra apparently. I'm a Virgo. What does that do?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1965.89

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the thing about these horror, like I miss being whatever the next one was by like a day.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1972.933

It was like one of those. Or maybe like I was a day into, it could have been like one day earlier, all of a sudden I'm like a different sign. Yeah, you would have been a Virgo.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

1982.817

I was also year of the cock. Hell yeah. On the Chinese food menu.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2003.028

The fancies get off for time with the energy healer, which they steer toward our girl Carrie Coon.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2012.334

So what's her game plan? She just wants Lori to get laid? I don't understand. Why is she pushing this so hard?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

210.371

And they're doing a nice little end around with him.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2162.48

So we're calling it guy talk now?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2168.18

FanDuel Parlay, where they'll do this with sports bets where they'll be like, you can have Saquon Barkley and somebody else to score a touchdown. And if one of them scores, you win the bet. I would do that with Guy Talk and Mook. So you don't believe in star-crossed lovers? This is not the Mike White universe that I inhabit.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2198.14

Rob's got good radar for this stuff. I don't know. That might be a good take.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2208.948

It's hard to step out of the creeps.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2253.245

I just want to say creep radar would be an incredible podcast.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2258.062

Just Creep Radar once a week. It's like, all right, Creep Radar.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2263.866

Let's dive into Patrick Schwarzenegger. I'm voting no.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2279.256

Nobody knows. Lockie and Saxon by the pool. Oh, man. Makes them drink the energy drink. Says, don't you want the big dogs to respect you? You want to be neurotic your whole life and end up a virgin?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2318.652

Gym cell. Incredible stuff. That's great. That sounds like another Ringer podcast.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2326.973

Gym cell is really good. Talk to her about it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2388.24

Oh, I like that you used Greg Gary. Thank you. Been trying to get that going all podcast.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2403.453

He had a great laugh in this scene when, I don't know, I just, I really enjoyed Patrick Schwartz saying it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2410.699

And he just was like, ha, ha, ha. But it was, like, genuine. I don't know. I think he's doing a good job. He is. Little stare down with Chloe. Oh, yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2422.54

Gagging therapy session really quick. I've done a lot of bad things. I've made a lot of mistakes. Says his father was murdered. I can't get my life back. Maybe I can still get some satisfaction. How did you interpret this, Joe?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2448.487

Which is sad because we all like Chloe.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2451.842

Oh, Chelsea. I know. That's the whole thing.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2455.424

Which is Chelsea who rules. You guys are fine, Rick.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2462.29

Right. Totally forgave him immediately.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2486.77

There's some deep shit going on with him.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2495.188

Sometimes people can just feel like they're broken and that's it. And they're just like, I've now latched on to my brokenness and that's just the way I am.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2520.991

Did you just use the character's name?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2524.38

No, that was really impressive. The therapist, would you call her Amarita? She was saying Amarita, yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2529.864

I don't know any characters' names. It takes me like four episodes.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2572.414

I just did it again. I didn't call her by her name. I called her the daughter. But you knew what I was saying instinctively. Piper feels like she's— But we know she has a big appointment on Friday.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2596.561

Listen, smart move by her to get away from the rat lifts.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2600.943

It's like, oh, my close relationships with my brother who asked me about my sex life, my date-rapey older brother, my crazy mother, and my dad who's just completely unraveling. I'm going to stay here.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2636.507

And now he's in Gladiator 2. It's like CR on the beach.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2684.022

Or state of mind. Yeah. And sometimes they leave because they fell off the boat, landed on their head and drowned.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2692.028

It's another way to go. Energy session with Lori. And then we also had the corrective posture session with Lockie. So I really spent a lot of time thinking about this. And it was going to be a Google deep dive. Maybe I'll do it this week. The defensive position. Left foot on your knee. You're protecting yourself with your female side. I don't know if this is true. Sometimes like I have a bad back.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

27.93

The Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find House of R. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2714.889

Sometimes it's easier for me to throw a foot on one leg or the other. Like we do the live podcast. I got to keep my iPad up. So I don't know. I immediately got defensive. I got in a defensive sitting posture. Hearing that. Listening to him talk about posture. Okay. So now I don't want to do that rabbit hole. But do you guys believe in defensive postures? I know this is defensive if you do this.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2735.423

That's defensive. I do that sometimes.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2747.594

Fair. Which is basically what he said. Are there defensive standing postures?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2761.34

Well, the guy basically said Lockheed sat like a loser. That was his therapy session. It's like everything you're doing isn't working, buddy.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2775.205

Just what an 18-year-old wants to hear who's struggling with his sexuality.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2792.551

I was just about to dive into her.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2798.374

She thinks Greg's wife killed herself by walking in the ocean. Which, by the way, if somebody said that, what happened to your ex-wife committed suicide by walking into an ocean?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2817.301

But also, why would he tell her anything?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2869.105

Well, it's his fault because he's staying at Away Lotus. Absolutely. I mean, we covered that last episode.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2883.215

So. I thought that was the best acting of the show.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2887.924

No, Greg Gary's kind of very hidden double take where he's like, you could just see for like a split second, his eyes bulging out. And then he got his shit together.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2938.838

I have a Greg Gary present for you guys.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2952.46

It's the best high in the world. Oh, believe me, it's not the best high in the world. That's like 30 plus years ago. Just don't trust Craig Gary when you see him in anything. John Grease?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

296.778

Called out by the other bodyguards as a wuss. He's got to prove his manhood a little bit.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2967.104

Has he ever been trustworthy ever?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2973.265

That's the one. Chelsea and Rick get high and go to a snake show. How'd you feel about this? This is the weirdest sequence in the show.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

2988.56

I mean, I think the answer to this for pretty much everybody is no. But do you guys like snakes? Because I don't like snakes.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3016.212

Snake show is an immediate no thank you. It's a no.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3049.664

This is the calm before the storm episode, literally, because they're going on a boat. And I think this was just establishing snake fire and tsunami. I think they're trying to tell us all bets are off.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3083.6

But these are two pretty dramatic vacation events. Like if you went on a vacation, you'd be like, hear about what happened to Mal in Thailand. She was in a store and there was a huge robbery and she almost got shot. Like, oh my God. And it's like, hear about Mal in Thailand. She went to a snake show. She got bit by a snake. And I'll be like, absolutely not. Mal did not go to a snake show. Oh, man.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3102.726

Great. Those are two crazy things to happen.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3137.658

Well, Chelsea got bit. That was a very well done, tense scene.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3144.528

Just all the snakes. It's like, oh, God, I'm not enjoying this. But, you know, it was definitely weird. Rick got one of the sleeping pills.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3163.415

He was also upset after the robbery.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3165.656

Yeah. Tim ate a sleeping pill. There's a double date with Greg Gary. He's invited over on the boat tomorrow. And then the fancy cougar dinner. Let's dive into it. All right. After this break. All right. The fancies are out to dinner. Carrie Coon hasn't been touched by a man like that in some time. Hasn't been not touched.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

318.786

You know what's funny? People don't believe that.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3191.592

But here's what we learned about Leslie Bibb's character. What's her name on the show? Kate. Kate. Not a new age person.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3199.353

She's a church going Texas lady.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3205.507

There's no question. Did you vote for Trump? Well...

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3218.053

Silent, smiling, MAGA conservative Texas lady.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

322.409

I have no interest in watching ahead. People in my life who know me and allegedly either like me or love me are like, no, you're watching ahead. Come on.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3267.7

I actually thought this was my favorite scene in the episode.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3273.365

Yeah. They're like, because that now we're going back to, we all grew up together. I thought we would all think the same about everything. It's like, clearly this lady is a lot different than you two.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3292.971

Husband sounds great. Sounds like a fun hang. Love to go to a Cowboys game with him.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3297.775

Yeah. Sounds like a connected dude.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3301.858

Wish we'd seen him last week in Texas. Could have taken us out.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3310.589

Yeah, there's no chance. Let's start planning that Austin trip.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3321.513

Well, right. All right. So what are the lessons? They don't really talk that much.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3326.455

It's probably like some tech stuff. How you doing, honey? So good. Saw that Instagram photo. You look so great. It's like all surface fake shit.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3383.722

They were editing it during the election.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

340.641

You guys studied the trailer. I did not study the trailer. I haven't watched the trailer. At all. I feel like that's cheating.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3412.45

I loved how they did it because it wasn't necessarily political, but it was about how something like this is such a great little window into the fact that the three of them don't really know each other.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3466.979

Or like she could have pulled out like a giant thing of cocaine and just started like banging it out. And they would be like, whoa, you're doing that now? Like it's on that level of like, I didn't realize you're this now.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3485.492

Or it's a habit, the same way cocaine is, where it's like, I'm in Texas.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

35.51

You guys are still doing that one, right? Yeah, we're cranking it out. That's what we do.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3506.846

She's like, and I like Theo Vaughn.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3560.138

Anyway, I love this scene. Yeah, it was really good. And then Belinda, who for the most part was a snore fest with her scenes until she decided, I'm going to go see if that's actually Greg. And she's probably getting it. I think she's in the murder rankings.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3598.844

That's where they landed on. Doing the interview today, I forgot how haphazardly they put together season one.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3606.59

Make a show on COVID. They're still figuring out the show as they're doing it. They have to go back and refilm some of the ending and they assume it's a one and done. And then by season three now, this is like, this show might be on eight seasons. Like, so, Greg Gary becoming like the serial killer of White Lotus. Like, I'm not against it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3631.118

I know, That's true. He's the only one.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3649.879

But what if she what if she finds out day of it's like, we're all going on the boat. You should come.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3671.774

It could be Greg Gary in the closet.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3681.208

We have that plot. No. That plot's looming.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3688.775

We have Saxon going on the yacht, hopefully having sex with Chloe, which I'll enjoy that whole subplot.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3701.505

And Greg Gary to find out and be pissed off.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3713.375

I would say yachts are the single most important property in any HBO show.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3720.628

Succession. Sopranos, which you didn't watch. The Game of Thrones. Did they have yachts in the 1300s or no? They did. They had some yachts.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3733.099

Some incest. Then White Lotus. We've had multiple yacht stuff. We had the cliffhanger in season, or not cliffhanger, the end of season two.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3749.601

I was thinking I really miss Succession.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3756.688

I just miss it. I hope another show pops on that I enjoyed as much as that one.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

376.01

Snakes fire, monkeys, tsunamis, tsunami videos. A toilet snake? Watch this guy just stand here on the beach as the tsunami overtakes him.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3763.998

No, I love White Lotus. But White Lotus, the characters change every year. The succession. Because I was thinking with the yacht, I was thinking of some of those Some of those yacht scenes they had in Succession were so great.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3780.194

I feel like after five years, everyone's just going to look at each other and go, fuck it. Let's bring this thing back.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3811.534

Well, we know that's going to be a theme. Last thing, we didn't talk about Rick and Chelsea when she said, you released a bunch of venomous snakes today. You're fucking deranged. Snakes are evil. Read the Bible. Evil things shouldn't be treated like shit. It only makes them more evil.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3826.124

So we're just... Snakes are evil.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3836.616

Snakes are evil and cats are kind of deep down evil. Well, deep down.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3851.106

Some of my favorite Instagram videos are cats just fucking with dogs and little kids, which backs my point.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

386.702

Yeah, Tim's like, I would sign up for that right now.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3865.045

Cats have a dark side. We all know. And then things are closing in on Tim Ratliff is where we leave the episode. Boy, are they. He doesn't do drugs. To a major way.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3884.251

I think it's Goggins. I have Goggins.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3900.698

So lorazepam, can you walk me through how powerful this is? Is this basically... Why are you both looking at me? Well, because you know the name of the pill.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3914.359

Is it like an elephant tranquilizer type of sleeping pill?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3923.468

Because obviously Parker Posey has been chugging them down every night and is like half immune to them at this point.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3934.724

But people like the mushroom scene, which I stay out of because I'm terrible at drugs, as Mallory knows.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3941.868

Well, now you know too. I'm just bad at drugs. It's fine. I have a lot of strengths and I have some weaknesses.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3951.733

Horoscope info. Yeah. But the mushroom where some people can be like, oh, I'll do a 10 milligram or I'll do a double. And then other people can do like a single and they're completely demolished for the rest of the night. I would imagine sleeping pills works like that too. You can develop like a weird tolerance for it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3975.132

That was the Jalem Rose corollary. Jalem Rose, my friend who's like six, eight and a half. And he's drinking wine and it's just like he's just... It's just going to take more wine to knock him sideways. So if you get a bottle with him and you have two glasses and he has two glasses, it's like he's had half a glass. Yeah. Because he's just got... You know, it's got more height to play with.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

3998.127

MVP, so we split on Goggins. Yeah. Predictions. I don't want to step on you and Rob, but predictions for episode four. We know we're going on a yacht.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4009.037

This felt like a transition episode to me, and I feel like episode four is going to be a massive episode.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4019.486

I think Rick goes to Bangkok, which means we get Chelsea...

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4022.988

I think so too. Either she sees something she shouldn't see or she flirts with somebody she shouldn't flirt with.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

404.368

Yeah. By the time people hear this, I think that will have already run. But Dave Bernard with the EP of it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4043.356

Well, rich people can be trashy.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4057.987

So who's on the boat? Let's figure this out. The Doubleday crew's on the boat.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4062.25

Saxon's on the boat. That's five.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4072.839

But it's possible it's just the four of them with Saxon in the Rick spot.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4083.072

I can't wait to go on the boat with this crew.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4086.114

Something bad's going to happen. All right, that's it for episode three, right? Anything else?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

409.589

He said this whole season came out of like this fever dream Mike White had. In the hospital. In the hospital.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4098.023

The fact that cats have a dark side. You have to admit cats have a dark side.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4105.603

But Halo, would Halo kill a mouse if it was in your house?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4117.301

I don't really like mice, but we did have a- Would you kill a mouse if it was in your house, Bill? The most interesting thing, would I kill it? No, I would try to scoop it outside.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4129.176

Like a magazine? I was dating a girl once. We were staying at her parents' house, and I went down to get water, and I heard this weird sound. And it was their cat was in the foyer, had a mouse cornered and was just like slowing in. It wasn't just like, I'm killing the mouse. It was like, I'm really going to enjoy this next five minutes before I kill them. And it was like watching Wild Kingdom.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4151.779

I've never seen anything like it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

416.931

Location scouting and get so fucked up. He's like in this, they gave him some steroid that was too strong. Yeah. And he went into some haze for two days. Yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4172.121

Do I have to get one just for our relationship, for the stories?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4177.903

My wife really wants one. I just don't like kitty litter. Are you in on this?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4183.784

Would it be a male cat or a female cat?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4216.598

Doing deep dives. When does Severance end?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4227.077

Do you believe that it's Apple's biggest show ever?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4230.96

I don't know. How is it bigger than Ted Lasso? That show is like a phenomenon.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4237.922

How about this? I'll watch it when you watch The Sopranos. Okay.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

4246.226

All right. Good to see you, bud.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

426.272

Came out of the haze and was like, I have season three.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

43.194

Well, I miss him. I haven't done a pod with him. He's still doing the watch, though, right?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

430.575

And it's literally season three.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

437.1

When you say when you get sick, you mean once a month when I get sick?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

485.248

At some point, everybody's going to have a lace something.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

49.837

Still doing that. Great. You can watch this on video on Spotify. You can watch it on Ringer-TV, our wonderful YouTube channel that breaks down. Right now, we're doing White Lotus and Severance.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

490.853

Here's what we know for episode four. We're going on a boat and I can't wait.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

494.597

We're going on a boat. Greg Gary's hosting.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

498.42

Saxon's going to be there with no shirt on, just doing Saxon stuff.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

508.05

We're going backwards. Big takeaways from episode three before we got to rip through it. Tsunami, snakes, and fire.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

522.25

He's basically like, I'm going to enjoy these next five days, my drug, whatever, stupor.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

528.035

The end of the vacation will happen. They'll hand me my phone back and I'm going to jail. Yeah. Zen, I don't want to know anymore. I'm going to drop my phone in the bag.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

574.762

So they plant the toxic fruit in episode one.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

578.443

The pills are now heading toward the... Yeah, okay.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

594.921

Could you eat the toxic fruit but not die?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

60.923

Eventually, we'll get the zombies back.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

602.241

So it could be like the suicide where he doesn't actually die. He eats the fruit thinking it's going to kill him.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

612.347

The other one I was thinking was he makes a toxic fruit smoothie. but then gets distracted and then Lockie drinks it because he thinks it's a power shake. Bill!

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

632.166

I had Lockie number two in my power rankings behind Gay Talk. Oh, man.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

65.324

What happens in Last of Us? Is it zombies? Yeah, mushroom zombies. Great. We're going to talk about White Lotus now. It's coming up next. Tsunami, snakes, and fire. Episode three is coming for us. Let's do this. Well, shit's going down. Episode three. We're heading toward something. What are we heading to?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

664.227

So those two I would have as top two. I mean, Rick has to be on there just because we know Rick's going to commit some violence and then come back to haunt him.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

719.651

You guys were weird after Goggins after the first episode, and now he's full Goggins in it.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

729.197

I think he's moved into the Emmy leaderboard rankings. I think he's number one right now.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

745.367

Yeah. So we have Belinda's now in danger. That's a big takeaway. We're going to go through all these when we break down the episode.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

764.235

It felt like something was going to happen there. Oh, yeah.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

771.957

I was like, are we... Oh, I'm shipping it hard. Is this going to be our first sex scene? Belinda and this guy? Really?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

787.202

It was a PG. It was a PG-13, maybe. PG-13. That's not what we do on White Lotus. We go hard on White Lotus. That's true.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

814.073

You're signing up for that? Do you want that for you? Is that your number one spa treatment now?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

836.984

I wouldn't know what to do during the energy massage session.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

842.387

I'd be way too awkward. But what if you didn't feel it right away? Is it just, you just get your money back? No. Like, you have to, like, buy in if you're the massagee.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

894.904

Oh, time to find... This guy's going to be here for a week. I'm going to step in.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

909.587

We can't do that in two straight seasons.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

918.53

Oh, I think it's a sneak away in the cabin. Sneak away in the boat. Like the little guest cabin in the bathroom. Because Greg Gary knew right away.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

929.855

Oh. You throwing Saxon in the power rankings?

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

945.779

Yeah, who's not in peril? I know. Basically just the daughter. She's the only one I feel good about.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

959.83

Well, we have... Rick killing somebody in Bangkok is happening. Or on his way to Bangkok to do something not great. Those are big sequences. But he's got... Okay, so we know that...

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

979.832

We did not talk about that on the pod.

The Prestige TV Podcast

‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3: The Unraveling of Tim Ratliff

987.038

Not surprising, because they've done this. Yeah. They did it in season two. Did they do it in season one?

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1016.737

John Carpenter said he's too old.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1022.748

would I not own Charles Bronson and escape from New York on 4k Blu-ray? Yeah, of course. But if you, it's, I don't think he could pull off a half of what's Russell does. No, I think you need stunt doubles, all that stuff. He felt like in this movie, he said, he, he said, I was a really miscast person.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1041.819

It was more a theme that would have been better for Dustin Hoffman or somebody who could play a weaker kind of man.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1058.473

Still, shots fired. Michael Winter, the director, said, take it. We'll make him a more active and virile architect. And we'll all make a pot full of money. I don't know where Vero got in there. It's not like Charles is laying pipe there.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1135.634

Serpico, Mean Streets, Taxi Driver... And then at the same time, Woody Allen's making... Danny Hall and everything. Danny Hall and Manhattan. And this is a completely different side of New York that seems way more fun. And then by the time we get to the late 80s, they start embracing New York as a happy character. Yeah, when Harry met Sally.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

116.325

All right, CR. This is a podcast about Death Wish with Charles Bronson and vigilante movies and Charles Bronson himself. And I think all of them tie together. I think this is such an interesting movie. I don't know if it's aged that well. It has... A really awful scene in it, but this movie's also 51 years old. Do you want to start Bronson or Vigilantes?

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1161.599

Yeah, Alvy, whatever his name was. This film became a big deal. Bronson became a huge star. um, It eventually copycatted. It had these copycat vigilante incidents, most famously in 1984, which I remember because I was living in Connecticut at the time. Bernard Goetz just wiped out four subway dudes and it became the Death Wish murder. It was the biggest story in the tri-state area for a year.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1192.615

And it felt like something. And then it would turn into people going on talk shows, talking about pros and cons of just being able to shoot people.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1222.978

There was such a spectrum of responses. We're feeling the same thing with the, with the ringer team. You mean the hush from over here? I don't know if the guys, the guys over there, Craig might just be like, I'm not even reviewing this at the end of it. Michael winner, the mechanics, Scorpio, Scorpio and the stone killer. Scorpio, great title for a movie. Burt Lancaster.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1249.842

I feel like Scorpio I'm probably in good hands. I don't really need to know anything else. Yeah, it's like CIA assassins chasing each other. Yeah, I sure am. He... He kind of goes off the... They bring him back for Death Wish 2. Where he goes to LA.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1264.606

Which if you think this movie has a pretty deplorable assault scene in it, Death Wish 2 is like hold my beer and has one of the worst scenes that I actually can't... I think there's been stories written about it. It's kind of like the peak of how... Why did you guys decide this was a good idea to do in a movie that's going to be in the theater? Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1287.754

And there's a lot of stuff written about just how fucking weird he was. Michael Winter.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1331.772

And those guys, there's a great documentary that we talked about with one of the Kyle Brandt pods. Those guys are just like, need a star. Give them some money. We're just going to crank out these action movies. We don't care if they're good. And they made four Death Wish sequels. Unbelievable. Yeah. Death Wish 3 is not terrible. I mean, yeah. If you're looking for... Isn't that Cobra kind of area?

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1356.244

If you're doing the 2B surf, it's not terrible. And I got to be honest, I don't hate Death Wish 2 either. You just got to skip the first half hour. As soon as he's in LA, like... There's five guys I need to kill. I'm just going to go through and try to find them one at a time. Pretty good. He's a little bit more precise in Death Wish 2.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1374.57

There's a great scene in Death Wish 2 where I think somebody's on PCP, one of the guys he needs to kill. And the guy jumps out a window and the cops start coming at him. And all of a sudden, the guy turns into like Adrian Peterson in the 2006 season. Are you saying that Adrian Peterson was on Angel Dust? No, just like pick the best football player you've ever seen.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1393.585

He's just shedding tacklers. Flipping guys over and he fights cops for like a minute. I think it becomes a social video every once in a while.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1423.14

No. When it really got an after school special territory. Yeah. And somebody took it and just jumped off the roof of the school. Yeah. And was like, I can fly. And I was like, I'm never fucking going.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1442.909

That's right. Same thing. Yeah. You'd like to get wet. What I tell my kids. Yeah. Be careful. Uh, this movie was made for 3.7 million. And it made $30 million. Roger Ebert gave it three stars. What an interesting man. Death Wish is a quasi-fascist advertisement for urban vigilantes done up in a slick and exciting action movie. We like it even when we're turned off by the message. That was Rog.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1473.237

Yeah. Then he said... Michael Winter gives us a New York in the grip of a reign of terror. This does look like 1974, but like one of these bloody future cities and science fiction novels about anarchy in the 21st century. Literally every shadow holds a mugger. Every subway train harbors a killer. The park is a breeding ground for crime. Urban Paranoia is one thing, but Death Wish is another.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1500.896

Raj is really... Raj is like... He's not even looking at it.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1522.272

Think about the New York parks and all the shit that was going on from a movie standpoint. Oh, like with cruising? The Warriors? Yeah. If you've just ever, like, maybe AI, you just merged all these things together.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1545.587

I want Al Pacino from Cruising hanging out with Roy Scheider in Marathon Man. One other thing about this movie is we talk about titles a lot. One of the best titles.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

157.602

Well, and that's why we're doing the pod. So you have this cop vigilante era. Dirty Harry, 1971. Walking Tall, you big Buford Pusser guy. For sure. Three of those. And that was, Dirty Harry was, he's a San Francisco cop. Trying to find a serial killer. He's making his own rules. Yeah. That was, I think, the first. He's making his own rules. Watch out.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1571.26

I don't know. How do we find that out? Ask ChatGPT. ChatGPT. No, don't do that. It could be in ChatGPT. No, I would assume it popularized it. It definitely did, right? My only regret is nobody says the phrase death wish during the movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1600.674

Do they ever say that in two or three? I can't remember. Probably they work it in. They say it in 48 hours, which I forgot. There you go. Because Kate says to Reggie, they gave me 48 hours to find out whatever. I'm like, title. Yeah. Boom. You did it. We're going to take a break and we're going to come back and do the categories. All right, most rewatchable scene.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1625.314

This movie somehow doesn't have a rewatchable scene for 40 minutes, which I think means you can just come right in 40 minutes.

The Rewatchables

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1650.008

The movie starts there in Hawaii. She's great. Really loves his wife. Having a great time. Good vacation. Comes back. Maui in the 70s looks awesome. You know, every time we're in Maui, I had this in What's Aged the Best. There's been a lot of stuff from the 70s in Hawaii, and it's always amazing. Brady Bunch, I remember they went there for three episodes. It was great.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

1675.313

Yeah, you're right. Well, it also just seemed like you could go on any beach, just bring a blanket. Nobody's like, excuse me, sir. So they come back and the wife and daughter are like, let's go get some groceries. They decide to get the groceries delivered. And Jeff Goldblum and his two cronies Stalk them back to their apartment. And it's a pretty awful scene.

The Rewatchables

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1700.324

I honestly, I don't understand some of this stuff with the 70s, but it really feels like a lot of the goal was to provoke people.

The Rewatchables

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1709.189

And it wasn't just with violence. It was with sex or whatever else. And it's just like the kind of scene that would just never, ever happen now.

The Rewatchables

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1741.569

Yeah, and I wonder what... Do you do that because you're trying to set up like this is why this guy snapped?

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1768.724

Yeah. I got a thing to do in Arizona next week. The son-in-law is like, Dad, we've got trouble. Yeah. He seems not really grasping the stuff either. Anyway, it's a weird way to start a movie. Not going to defend it. And in a lot of vigilante movies after the fact...

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

180.035

Not a lot of movies about cops who follow the rules. No, this one has really set the mark, though, for don't follow the rules. Yeah. Walking tall, sheriff trying to save his town, and he decides to bend some rules. And then Magnum Force was another one with Clint. Same type of thing. But nobody had really put all of it together with normal people until Death Wish. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

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1807.076

Well, the first rewatchable scene is the role of Corderson.

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1813.982

Why is he getting $20 in quarters? What's he got in his hand? And he's just kind of waiting for somebody.

The Rewatchables

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1819.927

But the best part is when he comes back and he starts swinging the roll of quarters around. He's like, just kind of loses his mind. Easily the most gif-able moment for this. Oh my God. Yeah. Starts swinging it against the thing.

The Rewatchables

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1844.603

Actual quote from my wife. This movie makes me want to go out with a roll of quarters and beat up bad guys. Okay. Yeah. Put that in our Wikipedia. The Wild West Saloon Brawl is really good.

The Rewatchables

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1864.522

I couldn't believe how good that was.

The Rewatchables

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1930.36

The Bronson's getting better.

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1933.563

He's really workshopping.

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1960.441

Yeah. Craig, that could be a good name for your first son, Ames.

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1972.69

The best character in Deathwish. Kirstie's first shooting is my next rewatchable. Which leads to then the second shooting, which is the three-on-one. That's when the movie... That would be... What's our category? The, okay, motherfucker! When the movie goes up a notch? Yeah. When he's just looking around and it's like, hey, there's three guys robbing somebody in an alley. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

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1992.046

I'm going to take all three of them down. So, I really enjoyed the police sergeant in this movie played by Vincent Gardini. He has 40 people in the office.

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201.271

Where it's like, what happens? This guy's an architect. His wife and daughter are brutally assaulted. His wife dies. And he just kind of loses it. Yeah. And this leads to, they're still making these. I mean, I made a list. The Exterminator with Robert Ginty in 1980. Yeah. Remember that one? Yeah. Because I didn't, because I was- I remember the name. I don't know if I've ever seen it.

The Rewatchables

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2035.856

It's really funny. Another thing I love about these 70s New York police movies is just the police station scenes. Which I guess were all real. It all looks like Barney Miller on steroids.

The Rewatchables

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2072.942

That whole seems like an actual police station. Well, he... Somehow figures out in 90 seconds, check all the murders from the last three months. He's probably a combat vet. I think he's a vigilante. He just does all of this off of one alley shooting.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

2097.205

Major celebrity. The subway double murder would be my next scene. Yeah. You know, Kirstie's really getting into it because it comes back for the second shot for each guy. The make sure you're dead shot. It's like, oh, you're really... Yeah, the Neil McCauley. You're really exploring the studio space now.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Oh my God. That's where you have to do the please don't recommend me this video anymore tab. Honestly, I haven't done that yet, but okay, I will. I've done that a few times. There was one time, I don't know what happened, but it recommended a Dan Levitard clip to me, and I went right in there, and I said, I'm not interested. Next one, subway platform shooting.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Oh, no question. You know, this one, he, he raises the stakes. He ends up getting stabbed. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He's, he's flashing money and diners and stuff. Yeah. That's when he takes out, what is that giant wallet? He has, there's just like billfold.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And he's like, uh, how much is my coffee? Um, Next one is the big ending scene. Kirstie on the big park stair. In the promenade, yeah. Guy's got a gun at the top. We got Boom Boom Washington at the bottom from Welcome Back, Cotter with another guy. Shoots all three, gets shot, and then chases the dude. We got a little chase scene and then passes out. He's like, deal your hand. Draw.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And then passes out. And then I would throw in at the end, just the cop telling him to get out. Let's pretend this never happened. Inspect the sundown. And then that's it.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Fighting Back with Tom Skerritt, 1982.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I saw it in the theater. Yeah, I remember that. And then he went on to Top Gun. Death Wish 2, 1982, he moves to LA. Vigilante, Robert Forster and Fred Williamson, your guy. I don't know if I've ever seen that. Yeah, I didn't even know it existed. Death Wish 345, Falling Down, Michael Douglas, 93. The Substitute, our guy Tom Berger, 96. Yeah. The Brave One. Jodie Foster said, let me get in on this.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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This is... Ending's great. Well, one of the reasons this was a rewatchable, first of all, it was on TV. Like you said, you never saw like the really bad stuff. This was on TV.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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This was on TV for 40 years, and you could always just come in at the roll of quarters and just watch them just gun down bad guys for an hour. It's basically a Western. I'm going with the same thing. What's the most 1974 thing about this movie? God, what isn't? Creepy, scary 1970s New York City. A movie hero who is a Korean war vet. You don't get that very often.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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A 50-year-old Korean war vet, yeah. TWA Airlines, just walk on there. Man, thank you, Howard Hughes. TWA sounded great. The assault scene we mentioned, very 1974. The overcoats in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, there's like these weird, the collars are like down, and I didn't really understand those. And then this is my number one. Magazine billboards. Telling us what's happening in the story through like Harper's and New York Magazine and People Magazine and these big billboards of magazines. When's the last time we had a billboard of a magazine?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I had that in what stage is it worth? Yeah. If I went to somebody's house and they asked, Do I want the liver with the spaghetti or on the side? I'm out. That sounds... Who eats liver?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Did you guys ever... Do you ever had liver?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Smoking at the table, eating the liver and onions. Oh my God, no. Like the bad brass special. Yeah. What's aged the best? We mentioned old school 70s police stations. Yeah. Really enjoy that environment. Cities with wildly different views on guns, I think, has weirdly aged well since we're in that area still. We still are.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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A lot of the stuff they talk about in this movie, you're like, all right. Yeah. Definitely would hear that exchange right now. Yeah. Somewhere. I read this thing. There's an article about why people watch the same movies and TV shows over and over again. It's a big feature. They did a study on it. Do you know what the answer is? Why? Because it relaxes people.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Because they're not tense when they watch something. When they don't know where it's going, you get a little more whatever. And I was like, they've just described the rewatchables. I'll have to tweet that out of the rewatchables. Do you find it... Like me watching 48 Hours last night, even though I've seen it 395 times right before I fell asleep.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, that's basically a variation on this. Gran Torino, 2008. And now it just keeps going and going and going. Why do we like these? And then they remade it with Bruce Willis.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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it's comfort food yeah it's comfort but there's like an entire like calms your body down brawl between triads in big trouble little giant i don't know why it's comforting this is so relaxing yeah uh two more what's the best for me traumatized movie characters who become catatonic yeah i always feel like it's a good gimmick oh you can't snap out of it can't snap out of it she snaps out of it in death wish too

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Well, she comes to Los Angeles, yeah. Sergeant Frank picking up the People magazine that he's on, I really enjoy when he's looking at the cover. What do you have?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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That's like a film within a film. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I had that last park shootout with the stairs. It's just like really well done. Meanwhile, Pacino and Cruising's over in the little tunnel on the side. The baseball furies are walking by. What do you have for Great Shot Gordo most cinematic?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Dude, Herbie Hancock. Best needle drop. Fucking cooking in this. Herbie's cooking. Absolutely amazing score. Can I give you one other candidate? Yeah. Paul Kersey, when he invites his son-in-law over and he's blasting. And turns his record on. He's blasting game show music and making liver and spaghetti.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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There's a new website called BetterHelp. Yeah. I think you should call. He's just lost his mind at that point. Yeah. Why isn't he playing like disco or, I don't know, like Jethro Tull? And I love it. He's like, turn it up.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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The Chess Rockwell and Brock Lander's Award for Best Character Name. Ames Gianchil? Good. Is the guy's name?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Did he look like an Italian to you, though?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. Isn't... Did he look like a Frank Ochoa?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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But I think you're right.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He is. Well, he's coming up. Butch's girlfriend award for weak link in the film. Other than that scene. Jack, the son-in-law. I have the son-in-law. He's horrible.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He's just a horrible character.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I don't understand any piece of it. Why he's such a loser. Why he's not more... Like, obviously, his father-in-law is losing his mind. Yes. And he can see it. Doesn't seem concerned about that. Doesn't even really seem that concerned about his wife. Dad, they're going to put him in a sanitarium tomorrow. And just doesn't seem like, I can't believe this happened. Everything about him is off.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I had that in What's Age the Worst. Son-in-laws who call their father-in-law dad. I don't understand. Craig, do you do this? Absolutely not. I don't think anyone does this anymore. I think it's a 70s thing, though. It's like calling your wife the old lady. Yeah, but like... Certain things that went sideways.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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We rarely get to give this out, but the Steven Seagal Hard to Kill Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Intimacy Coordinator.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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The answer is yes. And then the Elizabeth Shue is an Oxford Electrochemist Award for Most Ridiculous Casting. Charles Bronson as an architect?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Look at all these. I put some olive trees right there. Everybody has a hill in a backyard. This episode is brought to you by Loom by Atlassian, who missed out on Star Wars by one week. I'm sure it was frustrating for them. You know what else is frustrating? Even more frustrating than being a week late when you could have been in the Star Wars episode and instead you're in Death Wish.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It's really frustrating when you start feeling stuck at work with too many unnecessary meetings. Luckily, there's a simple solution for that. Use Loom Video Messaging. It can simultaneously record both your screen and yourself. You should use this. It's actually good. I've used this. Share a quick update, provide feedback, train a colleague, everything in between.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I'm just going to start looming, Craig. I think you'd love that. Craig, I have some thoughts about your edit at 58 minutes. Looming me sounds like an HR violation. Plus, add Loom AI to your meetings for instant written notes and recordings. Try Loom today at loom.com. That is L-O-O-M dot com.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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For What's Aged to Worst, I mean, you'd catch the vigilante right now because they'd have cameras everywhere. This movie would be five minutes long. Yeah, it's like, oh yeah, he's right there.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Well, but the movie does a good job of like, this guy's lost his marbles. He's making liver and spaghetti and he's got bright orange walls and he's playing game show music. That architecture firm did not offer mental health days. Definitely not.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Lawrence Hilton Jacobs as one of the last muggers who then became Boom Boom Washington and, you know, Welcome Back, Cotter was one of the biggest shows of the late 70s. It's just weird to see him in this. Yeah. And Jeff Goldblum from The Big Chill and many other things.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I Spit on Your Grave. Which they remade in an even more violent and pretty awful way.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Plan B. Yeah. Um, I have for what's aged the worst, the Bruce Willis 2018 remake, because I even think when we started rewatchables, I remember the first year we, we had some sort of conversation about movies that should be remade and death wish was clearly one of those. Like it's such a great idea. And then they actually did it and it wasn't good.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I'd probably watch it. Do you have any more what's-its-worst? Was there a better title for this movie? An old category I brought back. Dino De Laurentiis was involved in this, another one of my heroes, in Paramount, and they originally wanted to call this film The Sidewalk Vigilante. Well, that's better than just The Vigilante. Because they thought death being in the title was a deterrent.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Boy, were they wrong. I think death was the opposite of a deterrent. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting were the three bad guys.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I don't know what is going on. Yeah, the guy from, the lead singer from Midnight Oil with Goldblum and then the other guy. And they're just deranged.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He's like, mom, go see my new movie, Death Wish.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford, hottest take award.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I don't know. Crime rate went down. Maybe we need some. Cut the crime rate in half in 1974.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Craig, I present to you Death Wish 2. Because he finds them one at a time. What do you have for how to state?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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So he turned it down to do Serpico. Would you have rather he did Serpico? I would rather he had done Serpico, yes. Yeah, it's tough.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I'm with you. Steve McQueen also turned it down. Clint Eastwood said, no, thanks. Allegedly, who knows? Burt Lancaster, George C. Scott, Frank Sinatra, Lee Marvin.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Who's the last one? First of all, I guess this is a relatively larger version of Elvis, right? By 74? Let me tell you something. 1974 Elvis playing Paul Kersey in Death Wish sounds like the greatest movie I'd own on anything. You would rather Presley than Sinatra? I just don't think Sinatra does it. He's like, my wife would never be assaulted. Yeah, right.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He would get some weird aggro Sinatra thing. Right. As you know, he was the coolest guy in the world. I think George C. Scott would have been good. Elvis crammed into like an architect two-piece suit that fit in better fibers.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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My wife was watching this with me for some reason, likes Death Wish. Okay. And when he gets the roll of quarters and he's just like, I'm going to take a stroll at night here. And she's like, I love this. Kind of want to do this. The roll of quarters, come mess with me. Uh, and that led to the role of, uh, the sock of sodas and bad boys.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Same like big city falling apart type of thing.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He's been a lot of stuff. He's the guy for the people who saw the movie with the huge mustache. Yeah, he's like, I'm not going to ask any more questions. The Son-in-Law is played by Stephen Keats, who was also in Friends of Eddie Coyle, big part. Black Sunday. And then one of my favorites, Silent Rage. Oh, yeah. He played one of the doctors. Did we do Silent Rage yet? We have not.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It might be one of Craig's 10 favorite movies we've ever done. Once he sees it? Yeah. It's really good. Chuck Norris, Craig? Haven't seen it. It's been a while since I've seen it. Guy wouldn't die. Dion Waiter's Award. James Janchel, would you go with? Or would you go with Amelie Brown, the lady in the newscast who fought off the muggers? Oh, with the hat pin? Yeah.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I have Stuart Mergolin as Janchel. Okay. The Lena Dunham running the Spahn Ranch Award for most jarring casting decision. I'll give you Jeff Goldblum or I'll give you Christopher Guest as the cop who finds the gun.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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They should redo this on Amazon and just have all of them in the cast like they had major parts.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Why he shouldn't have done that? Like a violent mockumentary? Recasting couch director of City. I had John Cazale as the son-in-law.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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The Rewatchables, brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. We're in a new studio for our video podcast. Look at this. Got Swayze. We brought Stallone. We brought CR. We decided to make this big-ass 70s month. Big 70s movies. I have no plan other than we did Star Wars, and we bought a lot of Goodwill. There's a lot of lobbying going on behind the scenes. For a big-ass 70s month?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Have faster internet research. Bronson asked for a California-based location so that it could be with his family in Bel Air. And they said, fuck you. We're filming in New York City. There's a lot of good... I didn't realize how much good... We've never really done a Bronson movie before. I didn't realize how much good Bronson research he was. By all accounts, rough hang.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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This is our first Bronson.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Everyone's like, yeah, kept to himself and a little difficult. Nobody was like, oh man, I love Charlie. Great guy. Yeah. Not a lot of that. Do you think he behaved himself on The Great Escape or Dirty Dozen sets, though? I think he was just super quiet and not like, where are we going tonight after the shooting?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He was basically like the Colts getting Daniel Jones because they needed a QB. Who is he in this scenario? Clint Eastwood, McQueen. Those guys were getting all the roles. And then Bronson's like... Okay, we dropped down to Bronson. We've signed Justin Fields for two years for $20 million a year. He was kind of in that mode, but then he kind of became as big as Clint Eastwood for like three years.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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The writer of the book, Death Wish. Garfield, Brian Garfield. He was furious about the film. He called it incendiary.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He wrote a follow-up called Death Sentence, which was a response to this movie, not made into a movie. Does Paul get the death sentence in it? Maybe. Bronson defended the film, said it was intended to be a commentary on violence, meant to attack violence, not romanticize it.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. Yeah. We should try to get a pyramid going. Uh, the, uh,

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I was watching it from the perspective of, man, on the subway platform, just take those two down. Don't let the guy get behind you. Just stay right in front of you. I think he wants the challenge in that case. Right. So one other thing for Half-Assed. There was always a rumor that Denzel played one of the alley thugs in his first movie appearance. No shit. At the 47-minute mark.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And this kept going and going. And then finally he gave an interview where he was like, I wasn't in Death Wish. Was he like, I wish I was? No, he just put the kibosh on it. He said he hadn't been acting yet. But he was mad that it was added to his IMDb page. That's funny. Yeah. Fishburn's in two, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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the social team rushes to their computers so is this a bronson movie or a new york is falling apart movie if you had to pick one or the other because this is another this is another reason why i find this movie so fascinating we're heading into this world of new york basically from mid 70s all the way through to the warriors where it's like new york is completely falling apart It is scary.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And yeah, he's in the scene that somehow like is a hundred times worse than the Death Wish one scene. Apex Mountain, Bronson, I think yes. I think it's Apex Charlie. Yeah, but it's not my personal Apex for him. No, but for him, this leads to hard times and he's like a massive star for this movie. I mean, no question. Vigilantes? Maybe. It turned into a phenomenon in the 70s. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Where would you go for scary New York City movies? Warriors. Yeah, me too. Right there. Vince Gardenia? I guess he was in Moonstruck. Yeah, I feel like he's... He's really good at this.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. He sees some killings that are going on in L.A. and decides to take a little Axel Foley-esque cross-country trip to make sure what's going on. Vigilante movies, I think yes. Unless you want to qualify John Wick because they killed his dog.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, I feel like when it's... Is taking a vigilante movie because he's specifically just killing those guys? Yeah, and she's not killed.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He's basically like, this broke my brain. I'm going to now solve crime by myself. And eat liver. And listen to game show music. Cruz or Hanks? Oh, no, I didn't finish. Sorry. Apex Mountain...

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He's like, hey, homie, is that my briefcase? I think this is the movie I wanted Hanks to make in the 2000s or 2010s. Let's get a little dark here, Tom Hanks. Yeah, he just never wanted to. He always wanted to do Jimmy Stewart. Scorsese or Spielberg? It's obviously Scorsese. Although Spielberg's version would have been quite different.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I had, uh, I had Kersey, but I think he would have been a good Ochoa.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It's weird. There's all these little subcultures going on here. And you kind of have to take matters into your own hands. Or you might get run over by one of these gangs. Or there's things happening over here and over here. And there was this lawlessness that's just in all these movies. It becomes a character.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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The doctor just delivers the your wife didn't make it news so abruptly.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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But his wife's okay. The son-in-law first is like, your wife's going to make it.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And he's like, oh, your wife's dead. But I'm sorry about that. Did you see Seaver through eight? Two hit innings? Yeah, my wife made me pause the movie, and we just couldn't believe how bad the doctor was. And her take was, maybe there wasn't enough awareness on how doctors should talk to patients yet, and this was actually what it was like. It was more realistic.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Maybe it wasn't a bad acting choice.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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yeah oh no your wife your wife's dead she fucking died already that was your wife yeah oh my god she was dead when she came in yeah yeah yeah she's in the room dead if you want to go your wife's catatonic but your wife um not painting her apartment within a day after the graffiti uh assault murder how about just put the place up for sale and be like you know what burn the furniture but stay in a hotel

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I had one more. People in a restaurant watching a news conference with a police officer, like it's game seven of a playoff series. They're all like just riveted by this. Like, really? We're supposed to believe that?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did we really do that in the 70s? I don't know. Were we that interested in the news?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Okay, before we answer the question, sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable, I should mention there were four sequels. Death Wish 2, Death Wish 3, 1985. Death Wish 4, The Crackdown, 87. And then for some reason, 94, Death Wish, The Face of Death. Seven years pass. Bronson is now... In his mid-70s. And they're like, we're running it back.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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But I think it speaks to how popular the sequels were on TV from a rewatchable standpoint.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Can I talk you into the Apple TV, Prestige TV, Death Wish remake? Like now?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah. Gyllenhaal. Just episode one, something bad happens.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Episode two, work trip. Goes to the range because the guy loves the range. He's like, ah, that felt good. And then we're just off.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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All the architects are like, sure, Paul. I don't know. I would, I would give death wish a chance. Yeah. You apparently you wouldn't.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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We'll combine them. Craig would watch death wish on Apple TV. Sure. Craig loves the studio. Yeah. He'd give anything a chance.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm?

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I didn't think you were going to break out Wayne for this.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I had two actually for this. I think Nell should be in the park in one of the scenes. Oh my God. We just see her once. And then the subway platform when he shoots the two guys. Uh-huh. Ryan Rucco. Kersey!

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Just one Oscar who gets it. Herbie Hancock. Yeah. I don't have any unanswerable questions.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I actually... All right, I guess I do have an answer. So... He's got to transfer, right? So he's got to talk to work. Maybe you make up some story about, yeah, you know. But he's still in the hospital with a gunshot wound. So he's got to tell work something, right? Not going to be in this week. What happened? Appendectomy. Like you come up, I guess you could get through that.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Then it's like, you know what? I really need to be transferred. And now I have a limp. They're like, okay, how about Chicago? And they just kind of, that's it?

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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But the big question I have is with the New York City police and the media, and this is now like a circus. Did they get him? Did they not get him? And then the killings stop. Are they still covering it? Well, you know how it is. After a week, they get bored and move on to something else. what piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I have the gun with the case that says Tupac. Oh yeah. Yeah. I'd put that in the, in the office.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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So it's tough to be like, what a cool coat. Maybe the People magazine? Yeah, I would like to show a People magazine. Coach Finstock or Best Life Lessons. Bring your groceries home if you live two blocks away.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It's a good choice. I agree with you. Who won the movie?

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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All right. Craig, I know you probably didn't like this one.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It's been on the list for a couple years.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, I think... And we're going to do a couple more 70s movies this month. But in general, the 70s is so interesting because they had all these great ideas for movies and some of them didn't land in the plane and some did, but then all of them existed. in the cable universe for the next 30 years, like this one. This is a really flawed movie that I probably have seen 20 times.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I think my first time was going to MSG for wrestling in 1980. Okay. Yeah. um, with my future stepdad and we were going to New York. Did you guys get confronted by the warriors? But at that point I knew a bunch of these movies and I'm like, we're going to New York. It's fucking crazy there.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Craig Horlbeck, thank you. Gahow and Jack, thank you as well.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Oh, and Ronick, thank you as well. Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Yeah. All these are on video, and we'll have two more 70s movies.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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To be. Are there three ones left in May or two?

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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That's fine. It's good. We did it. No, we have Close Encounters, Is It Possible, Heaven Can Wait. Uh-huh. Apocalypse needs too much research. Okay. Rollerball is in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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What was the other one we had? Oh, I asked for Marathon Man. Marathon Man.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I thought that was one of the ones that's not available though.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Well, we'll come back next week with one more.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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We have not. That movie's kind of a rough hang now. Yeah. Don't you think? Not that this movie was a walk in the park.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Sierra, thanks. Good to see you.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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You know, I just knew from all the movies I knew from like the Yankee games where Chris Chambliss is game winning Homer and everybody poured out in the field. So in my little kid head, I was like, this is like the most dangerous place in the world. Yeah. Did you think it was when you saw it? No. It was like, it's just this huge big city.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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But the way it was portrayed made me think that it was just like going to the wild, wild west.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Well, you hit this point when you get older with New York City where the fact that it seems like there's no ceiling and it's fucking crazy is like the best thing in the world. Yeah. But usually in New York, either... Late teens or mid-20s where you're like, this place is awesome.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I can get in so much fucking trouble here.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It doesn't shut down. I don't know what's going to happen at 3 in the morning. And then as you get older, you're right. You're like, man, New York's falling apart. I just feel like New York's basically been the same probably the entire time I've been alive. Yeah. Just it's how you portray it. Bronson, the Liam Neeson of the 70s.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And for which movies we do, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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i feel like we're in one for us like century now who did star wars so much leeway so let's do death wish with charles bronson that's next was it worth it call him a mad vigilante call him a hero either way he's always on target we want you to get out of new york permanently never make a death wish Because a death wish always comes true. And you get to love it.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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He starts out, he's in Magnificent Seven, Great Escape, Dirty Dozen, Once Upon a Time in the West in the 60s. But he's like one of those guys. He's never the star of those movies.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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But he's tough. He's fucking ripped.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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um something happens he does like the leo and once upon a time in hollywood goes to europe and becomes a huge star in europe making these spaghetti westerns yeah um and then comes back in 72 and 73 and he makes chato's land which i never seen that's another michael winner movie yeah the mechanic which i have seen pretty cool stone killer all of a sudden he's a major star

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And then in 74, he makes Mr. Majestic and Death Wish. And at that point, he has his little weird mustache. Yeah. That is kind of captivating in 4K Blu-ray because I did buy this in 4K Blu-ray. Did you really? Oh, yeah. It was like $11.99. I'm like, fine. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Twist my arm.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I got to see every mustache hair for Bronson. I can't really fully explain Bronson, but there's been a few of these. He's basically Seagal of the previous generation.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I was going to do this later. The Dr. Richard Kimball Inappropriate Body Award. This guy's an architect. He's got 2.3% body fat. He's fucking jacked. He's got a 12-pack. I don't know how to explain him. And I think we've had a few of these. Stallone is more explainable because... He always had the unintentional comedy.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Van Damme was always kind of an unbelievable athlete and always had a couple of card moves. He could imitate his accent. Schwarzenegger, giant, could do his accent. Seagal... Kyle Brandt and I have tried on a couple movies, tried to explain him. Ponytail, can't really act. Something hilarious about him the whole time. I don't know where Bronson fits in.

The Rewatchables

‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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It really is like a Liam Neeson thing because he talks like this. Yeah. And every line he delivers.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Yeah, Liam Neeson was competing against like Ralph Fiennes and people like that. And then all of a sudden, that's taken and then he just becomes Bronson. Bronson said in 74, I supply presence. There are never any long dialogue scenes to establish a character. He has to be completely established at the beginning of the movie and ready to work. So that's it. He knew who he was. Yeah. He's like...

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I don't know, like in basketball. I'm just here to set picks and grab some rebounds. Help you protect the rim a little bit. That's all I'm here for. Don't ask me to really be in a big acting scene. I'm going to have my family just get traumatized in the worst possible way. And you're not even going to be sure if I'm that bummed out about it. We're going to get into that. Yeah.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I'm just shaking it off. So... 75, it has Hard Times, and it has a movie called Breakout that apparently did well. And he's the fourth biggest star in that box office thing in 1975. It's Robert Redford, Barbra Streisand, Al Pacino, and Charles Bronson. And that was kind of the peak.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Nothing's riding on this other than the future of the country. And then he guns them both down. I'm literally going to kill you. He turned down the shootest that became a John Wayne movie, one of the last ones. He turned down City Slickers in 91 because he didn't want to die in the movie. He had this... I mean, the Bronson research, I'd defy anyone to find kind of a quirkier, weirder A-list star.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Give one normal response to a movie. Yeah, he would turn down parts because... The Shootist, I think that was the one where the guy has some sort of cancer. He's like, I don't want to have cancer in a movie. That's it. He's out. City Slickers, which was a great part that won Jack Palance the Oscar. Bronson's like, I can't die in a movie. And just turns it down.

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‘Death Wish’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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And it would have been like the crowning achievement of his career. That's one of those old once upon a time in Hollywood rules he's following. It's like, I'm not supposed to die. Charles Bronson. He didn't get Capricorn 1, a movie that I might be the only one that likes. And then he tested for Escape from New York and the studio pushed for it. And Carpenter. For him to do Snake.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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We have to film all of them at once after the football season. Yeah, we can do it. We'll have to fly there right after. Why not? I'm going to dress. I'm going to have the facial hair, hair, and shirts of the concierge in season one. That's going to be my look. That's going to be how... What was that guy's name in season one?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So do you need this after a Ravens? Do you need this after every Ravens season ends badly?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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at the end it's one of the best sports movie endings of a game sequence ever the two guys slumped at the one yard line Billingsley and Winchell and they keep cutting back to them and they're just they look like they've just been in a war and they're so despondent it's great so the history of sports movies where the good guys don't win at least modern version last 50 years yeah Bad News Bears and Rockies same year yep

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Right. That was the first time that flipped. All the Right Moves is a really good version of this where they messed around in a couple ways. They had the big game early on in the first 40% of the movie. It seems like they won. For some reason, they don't take the safety. Then the guy fumbles coming out of the goal line, recovered in the end zone in the pouring rain, touchdown.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And it's just devastating. And then poor Steph never plays football again. Tin Cup. Where now we've had a whole generation of, hey, it was really cool when the good guy didn't win.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And Ron Shelton twists it in the ending of Tin Cup. A league of their own, which is earlier than Tin Cup. But now you could argue if you're a Laurie Petty person in that movie, maybe the good guys did win.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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If you're Tom Hanks, Gina Davis, you weren't.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Any Given Sunday and Moneyball are the other two. Great list.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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This one is probably, other than Rocky, probably the best one.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah. I'm going to try to get it going. Anyway, I brought you on for the last Rewatchables of the year. I'm honored. To discuss a movie that we love very much. Friday Night Lights is next.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Season three, they won because it wasn't season two.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It's a hard thing to pull off, though, because you have to have a really good movie not to win at the end. After I've just spent two hours hoping that the good guys are going to win and they don't. So one of the reasons we're doing this pod, other than we've been dying to do this movie forever, is our guy, Billy Bob Thornton, who's having a renaissance.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The only person who loves Landman more than me is probably you. and maybe two members of Taylor Sheridan's family, and it's a Billy Bob resurgence. It's so much fun watching him on any given Sunday, basically as the Landman guy.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Should we throw it? Actually, let's throw it to a break, and when we come back, we'll talk about Billy Bob and Landman. All right. We were talking about Billy Bob before the break. First of all, best 21st century Billy Bob movie, I think, I think, hands down. I'll give you some other candidates if you want.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Monsters Ball is probably the highest end.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I would say that that will not be on the rewatchables. Great movie, though. Yeah, maybe that's probably the highest end quality movie, and Heath Ledger is amazing in that movie. But this is the most rewatchable. Some people might go with Bad Santa.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Some people would go, not me. But this was kind of the peak of that whole run that starts with Sling Blade. He's got this little 10-year run. He was a that guy forever. And then all of a sudden, Sling Blade, he's in Armageddon. He's in Simple Plan.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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He's in Pushing Tin, which they tried to do a movie about, what should we call it? The Flight Dudes. But most important, starts dating Angelina Jolie. And they become a crazy celebrity couple. They give crazy interviews. They're wearing blood around each other's neck. And at some point, it feels like this is dammit.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah. They had that interview where they just said they had sex in the limo and the way they wore it. And at some point, it was like, this guy might be insane. But he rallies back and it all culminates in him playing Coach Gaines.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It's the same kind of thing where there's chaos going all around him and he's trying to solve problems, right? He's doing it a little more subtly as Coach Gaines. Landman, he's a little more... Total, yeah. Fixer. A little more of a character and probably a little bit of a darker side. But they definitely seem like they're brothers, at least. But he's somebody I've always just really liked.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And if you kind of catch him in the right role in the right movie, whatever, you just think he's one of the best actors on the planet. He's really good in this. He pulls it back. There's some fun scenes like with him in the boosters with the way he plays it, where there's a, we really need to win this week. And he's like, yeah.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, he kind of knows what he has to do. But I think this is his... Monster Ball was really great. Yeah, that's a great movie. I've only seen it twice. I saw it once in the theater and then once a couple years later. And it's just, it is not a fun movie.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It's an upsetting movie. So Friday Night Lights has probably lasted the longest. This movie had breakout moments for a lot of people, though. Peter Berg.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Who had directed two movies, but this was the one that really catapulted him. Plus, he ended up putting together the TV show, which you can read about on a great old website called Grantland. I think it was month two of Grantland. We did a long oral history. Robert Mays did it. It was his first big assignment. And he got everybody.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Early 2010s were unusual. You could be like, I'm doing an oral history and you'd literally get everyone in the movie and everybody who was behind it. Now you'd get like three people. So Peter Berg, this launches him.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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um and by the end of the decade he was a big enough star that he was one of the first two directors we got for 30 for 30 right and from a credibility standpoint it was a huge deal with other filmmakers it was like we had barry levinson we had peter berg yeah oh oh so you guys are for real it was one of those so i'll be grateful for that explosions in the sky incredible

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Them and Tangerine Dream in the finals for movie scores.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I can't wait to talk to producer Craig about this movie. Um, at the end of the pod, he's never seen the movie of the TV show. I don't know what his history is with explosions in the sky. Um, but I feel like in the social media era, it's probably, you're probably aware of it in some way with some of the clips, but so anyway, big win for those guys.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The cast, Derek, Luke, Garrett, Hedlund, Jay Hernandez, Lucas black. They're all really good. And they all went on to do stuff. Um, And I think the casting in this movie in general, I had a lot of trouble with, oh, what would I do if I could recast a part? I don't know. Garrett Hedlund as basically Riggins. Oh, yeah. In the TV show, he becomes Riggins. Yep. Versus the actual Riggins.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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All right, Mallory. I don't think anybody loves the Friday Night Lights franchise more than you, with the possible exception of me and a couple others. I go way back to the book coming out when I was in college, Buzz Bissinger's book. And it was one of the best sports books, not only the 80s, but probably ever.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I just want to make sure. I just want to make sure.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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He's untouchable. All right, I just want to make sure. Liz Kelly, Craig's wife, has Garrett Hedlund. We did Country Strong once on the rewatchables because it's her favorite movie. I felt like I owed it to her. She's been an important person for The Ringer. But Garrett Hedlund, that was probably his peak. I always liked him as an actor. I always really liked Lucas Black.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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He ended up in one of the Fast and Furious movies. Tokyo Drift. Yeah, Tokyo Drift. Jay Hernandez has had like a long TV career. And then Derek Luke, who was the oldest of all of them. He's been a bunch of stuff too. Tim McGraw is an actor. Wasn't ready for that.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then Connie Britton, who's barely in this. Yeah. And I have a specific spot later in the podcast to discuss this. Okay. Yeah. Playing Coach's wife, different actor as her husband. She barely has any lines. Her hairdo is different. Yeah. And not really a lot of correlation to the TV series where she becomes one of the great mom-wife characters in the history of television.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You never would have guessed it from this movie.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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We'll save thoughts on that. So, oh, I messed up the Buzz Bissinger. The book came out in 1990. The team he follows, 1988. He was also cousins with Pete Berg. Wild. Which is part of how this all happened. $30 million budget. Made $62 million. Did well. Didn't do amazing. But I think a lot of people saw it, and then it led to the TV series eventually. Our guy Raj.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Three and a half stars. He loves story. He loves characters.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The movie demonstrates the power of sports to involve us. We don't live in Odessa and are watching a game played 16 years ago and we get all wound up. You're goddamn right, Roger Ebert.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It was two years after Season of the Brink with the John Feinstein book about Bobby Knight. And it was just this glory stretch of, it started with Breaks of the Game in the beginning of that decade. And Friday Night Lights came out. It was awesome. I was immediately attached to everybody. And then the question became, when is this going to be a movie? Right.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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That's exactly what happened. Great job. Dead on. Now it's time for the most rewatchable scene brought to you by Den of Thieves 2 Pantera. The original had everything you could want from an action heist movie. And now... Gerard Butler and O'Shea Jackson Jr. are back. And this time, Gerard's character wants in on the heist. That's right. Big Nick is back. And this time, that's right.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

1905.937

The cop goes gangster. See Den of Thieves 2, Pantera, only in theaters January 10th. I just saw you wipe your nose. Are you sick?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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How many times are you sick in 2024? Mm-hmm.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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One of the last COVID holdouts. Okay. Back to most rewatchable scene. I really liked the opening credits. Just going to mention that first day of practice with the camera crews. Yes. where we get Don's dad coming down to yell at him, throw him down, and completely embarrass him in front of a bunch of people. And then we also get Billy Bob.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And you're like, wow, he's not going to top that speech in the movie. And then he fucking blows by it much later in the movie. But I love this whole like the camera crews and you just get a feeling for the stakes. It's very well done.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It took 16 years for this to be a movie. It's a long time. So when did you read the book?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I'm also always a fan of the big board of the position players.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The coach moving stuff. And then at the end of the movie, he's going to be like, all right, I'm going to take that guy down.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Sad. The first game where we get some incredible music leading up to it, we get another excellent Billy Bob speech. And unfortunately, Boobie gets hurt up 42-7. Brutal. Because fucking Chris Comer, that loser, couldn't find his helmet. Terrible.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Tough one. Yeah. A scene that has been ripped off. I'll say it. I love Varsity Blues. We've done on the rewatchables, but they rip it off with the Lance Harbor injury.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Even though it's five years before this movie. And then the Friday Night Lights TV show. Yeah, sure. First episode. Street. They flip it with Jason Street, the quarterback, and they take it to the nth degree in a much, much darker, darker way to go. Sorry, Craig. Spoiler alert. Next scene. Billy Bob tells Winchell that he has to step up.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I like a little coach kicking the QB, hey, I really need you. And he gives him the whole speech with the end. If you decide to accept that, you're going to seriously fly, son.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, it's a good point. Chris Comer's breakout game leading into the let's go montage for the season. You always need that in a good sports movie. Here comes Chris Comer. Oh my God. I didn't realize he had it in him. This is emotional. Don's dad throws his ring out of the car.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Splitting with Billy Bob talking to Winchell again about curses.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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He has a couple of great quotes. There ain't much difference between winning and losing except for how the outside world treats you. I like it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I believe that our only curses are the ones that are self-imposed. You know what I'm saying? We, all of us, dig our own holes. I agree. And as this is going on, Don's dad is just losing the backseat and whips the ring out. You know what that is? Do you know what that is?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And poor Billingsley, he's just so upset. Now he's searching for the ring. For a second, it feels like it's going to be, what's that movie when the girl's head gets chopped off? We did it on the Hereditary. He's pulled outside the road. I'm like, oh my God, is Hereditary going to happen again? But we don't realize that he actually found the ring. They do a nice little save the moment for later.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, that scene has, he gives their dad the ring back. Boobie watches the garbage collectors. Yeah. Boobie packs up the locker room, and then Boobie gets in the car and cries, and that's all. How many times did you cry during the rewatch?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You'd save all your tears for round two in the NFL playoffs.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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This did the triple crown of the book, the movie, and the TV series, which there's been really good movies that led to better TV shows. We Bash is probably the most famous example of this one. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I think Parenthood, there's a really good argument. What's better, the movie or the TV series? It kind of depends what you like, but both of them ended up being pretty high end.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The coin toss scene you wanted to talk about, because that's a really good scene too. And it just shows how stupid Texas football is. It's like, yeah, we're going to do a coin toss.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And that's the only time the book really, really, really dove into the race stuff in this town.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And one of the only ways they would let

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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peterberg and the film crew even used some of the stuff in that town was it was like hey you're gonna you're gonna make a sports movie or you're gonna dive into all this other stuff because it was such a big piece the coin the where do we play the game was the only real time they dive into like are the what are we gonna have are we gonna wait we're gonna have splat graphs are we gonna mix them both and that scene dives into it the most but for the most part they stay away yeah there's a little don billingsley boobie

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Next scene I have, everyone gets on the bus for the Astrodome. Boobie shows up on crutches. Yep. Explosions in the sky. It's like, hold my beer. Let us get back in. I have that as Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness where best needle drop. You can pick like five different spots, but this is probably the best one. Heading the first game. Shots at everyone on the bus. I feel like this is the TV series.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I think was the most influenced by this sequence where they were like, Hey, as long as we have like this kind of scene, every couple episodes. Yeah.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Hmm. That's a great point. We should have mentioned that sooner.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And Allie Larner not being surprised to hear that at all. She's like, I get it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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That was the best quote of the show. All right. So we have the game.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I'm going to skip to halftime. Preacher gets pissed. They're building the whole year. He finally gets mad, goes nuts, gives his speech. And then Billy Bob's like, hold my beer.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then this one, Which I think the TV show kind of overwhelmed the movie. No question. And now the movie has become weirdly underrated.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And he does his big speech, which apparently was improvised the night before. Great nugget. They had it written differently, and then he was just, something had happened to him in his personal life. Um, so many good stuff in this, but being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down because you told them the truth.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You and I have had, we've said this to each other for a long time. Um, I want you to take a moment. I want you to look each other in the eyes, put each other in your hearts forever. He's just running, running on. I want you to think about boobie miles. He's your brother. He's right there. His eyes are rolling up. And then boys, my heart is full. My heart is full.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Uh, if you're going Kyle Chandler versus Billy Bob, uh, This makes it tough to not make a Billy Bob case.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Tell me why. Well, you just love Kyle Chandler.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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But Gaines doesn't put it together?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I'm not even going to argue with you about this. The big comeback. By the way, this whole from halftime on is my most rewatchable. This is just if this was on TV. That's great.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The big comeback. We get a shady fourth down pass. Leads to the TD. When it bounces and the refs screw him on it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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We had a kickoff return TD. Oh, there's hope. We get Chavez with the pick six. We get the Philly special. I guess it wasn't pick six because it sets up the Philly special to Winchell.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then we get a huge fourth down stop from the undersized tiny team leading to, I write Wiggle 34 switchblade for the state championship. They put switchblade in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Flag in the play. Classic swerve. We've seen this in a couple sports movies. They got to run the amazing last play again. Fall yard short. Everyone cries. Everyone's despondent. So good. But Don's dad is finally proud of Don.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Right. And he gets hit by nine guys.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So you have the game? The ending?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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That was the most rewatchable scene brought to you by Den of Thieves 2 Pantera. What happens when a cop wants in on an impossible heist? Action. Suspense. And a whole lot of chaos. See Den of Thieves 2 Pantera only in theaters January 10th. So what's the most 2004 thing about this movie? I'm going to give you the two things in the finals.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Or the football hits. This was like right near the end of the Tom Jackson screaming jacked up after they show the top five guys getting knocked unconscious. This is the EA Sports Madden, like just people getting crushed. And you actually watch this when you've seen this movie a couple of times. There's like 45 borderline beheadings.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Or clotheslines where it just seems like people are going to be carried off left and right.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And I just don't think they would make a movie that way now. Interesting.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Varsity Blues has it too. Varsity Blues has a lot of like jacked up stuff. What's aged the best? The football scenes are really good.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I would say like nine out of 10. They're about longest yard is still my favorite for football scenes, but this is way up there. I think he, I think Peter Berg did a great job. He took it really seriously. They did some cheat stuff where they actually filmed real games and then they tried to match the uniforms to the stuff in the game. So it looked great. Yeah. Like really all of it was super savvy.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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the giant home of the Permian Panthers sign with all you mentioned earlier with the years that they won. I love those in movies. What do you have for what stage the best? Cause I have a bunch of them.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Wait, hold on. Can we stay on that for a second? Yeah, please. Because I should have hit that harder at the top of you. It's obviously the theme of the movie. It's also a really good theme for a movie. That this is it. It's never going to get better than right here. And we've seen it in some sports movies. And they usually have the character...

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Um, who was, is now in their thirties and has two kids and was on the champion. They always loved that. It never really worked. That guy never becomes like, oh, he's now a state Senator. Or, oh, now he owns a couple businesses. Things have worked out great. It's always like he's just kind of looking longingly at these 17-year-olds. Like, oh, man, that really was the peak of my life.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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But even like movies, like Dazed and Confused, it was a theme for that movie too. Like, this is kind of it. Yeah. For Randy Floyd.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, it's almost not fair. They had so much time and real estate and space to explore with the TV show. And that was the great thing about this movie is... It's a TV show wrapped in a two-hour movie. There's so many plots, characters, so many interesting things going on. It's all concentrated in this one season. But for my kids, neither of my kids have watched Friday Night Lights.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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All the Right Moves, which came out in 83. Yep. And that was the first time I had really seen something dive into that in that way where it was like, This team, we've never beaten these guys. We haven't beaten them in eight years. If you beat these guys, you're a mortar on this town. And oh, by the way, when you graduate high school, if you don't go to college, there's your job.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Your uncles, your dad, you're going to be working at that mill right there. So it's never, ever going to get better than this right now. And I don't know. It's a good sports movie theme we've seen over and over again. We mentioned the Quick Cup filmmaking. Oh, go ahead. You had more.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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That's funny. I, I had a couple more Lee Jackson played preacher.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Only IMDB credit ever. Never in anything else. He was a University of Texas linebacker from 98 to 2002. Then speaking of IMDB, Billy Bob and Lucas Black, they were together in Sling Blade. So they had the connection from that. They were also in All the Pretty Horses. What's aged the best for me?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I love when it goes badly for the coach and he gets back home and there's all the for sale signs in his front lawn. It works. They did it in all the right moves too. It always works. I like Coach Gaines and Preacher. How is it out there? They're fast. They're big. They're dirty. Plus they're fast. You said that already. You said that already. Yeah. And then you mentioned the guy at the diner. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Or the outdoor, wherever they were, the guy with the baby takes a picture and he goes, don't waste a second of it before you know it's done. Nothing but babies and memories. Great. Babies and memories. So good. Good name for a sports bar. I like boobies MRI when he's distrustful of the guy from Midland too. I just thought that was accurate. Anyway.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The Fortune 3 clap award for most gif-able moment, I think, is also the great shock order award for most cinematic shot. Okay. Don and Mike slumped over the one-yard line. Yeah. Just like complete despondence despair. Great one. I took a picture of it, and I'm going to mail it to you after the Ravens get eliminated in round two.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And I kind of can't believe my daughter hasn't watched it yet because it checks a lot of boxes of things she likes on a show. But I have watched a movie with my son who really likes it and would never watch the TV show. And I wonder as the years pass... is the movie actually going to take on greater significance than the show for people who don't feel like diving into a five season show?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Probably like a week later, though. A week later. Depending on how many points you have.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The proper response is your team's not in the playoffs. You could have just said that back to me. Your team is 3-13.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It's maddening. Assuming our dumbass team doesn't beat Buffalo. The Den of Thieves Benihana Award for Scene Stealing Location. Would you go Astrodome? The Astrodome, just an incredibly important sports movie location.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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That's a great choice. I love it.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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What's going to happen? What are people going to show up there? What's going to happen? I guess. Big Kahuna Burger, where best used food to drink. Probably Mike's Burger in the beginning because it made me hungry.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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When the guy comes over and he's eating that burger. He is. He's housing it. It looks like a nice little Texas cheeseburger. What do you have?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Oh! That's great. That's gotta be the winner. Well, we only get to do this category when you're on the podcast.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The Mallory Rubin Award for Did This Movie Need a Better Sex Scene. This is a movie where a very fanatical fan of the team gets Winchell in a laundry room and has sex with him.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Kind of bullies them into it. I don't know. I don't know if you would have gone further. Is there a different sex scene? What's the move?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The other thing we have is there's going to be a reboot coming.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So I had that in What's Aged to Worst. I wrote, the coach-wife marriage, they just punted on it. Where was the Connie Britton heat check scene? So you're saying you'd even go further and have the sex scene. So in the oral history we did at Grandland, Peter Berg's talking about how he's trying to convince Connie Britton to be in the TV show. And this is what he said.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So I saw Peter Berg, who I've known forever. I saw him a couple of weeks ago at a Christmas party and this is like happening. It's in, I don't know what took so long.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Connie Britton's role in the movie was sort of pretty wife clapping in the stands, which is about the shittiest job an actress can have. At least Talia Shire got to own a pet store and go ice skating with Rocky. So then Connie Britton said, Pete got in touch with him. Why don't you play this part? I was like, no way.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The only thing worse than playing a nothing part in a movie is playing it for years and years on TV. So Pete Berg said, she said, I was out of my mind. I told her, I promise we'll create a character. We'll give you a job. We'll give you dimension. We'll give you a real voice. And they did. And she became one of the best characters. That marriage was fantastic. And it was the key to the show.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You would never know that from this movie that that was going to happen.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Keeping Coach Taylor's wife on the bench for a two-hour movie and just not even running a play for her.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And, and I, it frankly should have come out like six, seven years ago. Right. I was ready for the TV show to come back 10 years ago.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It really is. But you know what? This is a sports movie issue over and over again with girlfriends and wives. They just, if they didn't really know what to do with them, they just kind of put them on the side and they cut to them during a big game.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You're leading me to... That easily could have been, for me, the Butch's girlfriend award for weak link in the film.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I combined it with the Vincent Chase award for, are we sure this character was actually good at his job? I have a feeling you have some thoughts on this as well. Coach Gaines, maybe just a bad coach.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So just stuff I wrote down, you might have more. First day of practices, lets his starting fullback just get the shit beaten out of him on the field by his dad. Crazy. Maybe ban the dad from practice.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Guy's abusing your starting fullback. First game, if Chris Comer was the backup to the backup and he couldn't find his helmet when you're up 42-7 with 90 seconds left, Maybe put in the second string running back. You have a giant Texas football team.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Put in Wilson, the second stringer.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Then after the game, he tells the team Boobie's fine.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Boobie's going to be fine. Boobie's going to be fine.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Why doesn't he try to find any information about Boobie's knee from that point on? Crazy. Crazy. Hey, you're the most powerful guy in town. You're the football coach. You have all these boosters. You don't have one medical booster. There's not one person who'd be like, hey, something's going on with Boobie's knee. We got to get the best doctor possible. Is there somebody we can fly in? Right.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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We got to get an MRI immediately. He's acting like Boobie had COVID or something. Is Boobie's COVID done yet? No, we don't know yet. Maybe one more day. It's like, this fucking knee. This guy's going to college next year. Where are the scouts calling, finding out more about Boobie's knee? The movie just kind of, I guess they only had two hours.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Right, Kyle Chandler kind of group.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Put your brace on? We're fine. Yeah, put your brace on and let's try it in game six?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then he doesn't back up any of it. And then he's giving the speeches to Winchell about trying to elevate those guys. And it's like, you just sent Boobie out on the side. But my guess is this was probably based on some real life stuff. And I haven't read the book in a while, but I'm sure, you know. Bizarre. I don't know why it took an extra game to start airing it out with Mike Winchell.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I don't know why he didn't play Preacher at tight end, at least on like third and short. Preacher was 6'8", 490 pounds, and was Miles Garrett. Just like maybe have two plays on offense. It's high school. The best guys play both ways. I don't understand why he didn't have more info on Boobie's knee before he throws him in in the last game. Doesn't play him for three and a half quarters.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Brings him in and then immediately runs two sweeps on him where he's clearly hurt in the first sweep. He's like, run it back. What could go wrong? Deranged. And then you mentioned earlier the Billingsley. So my fullback has a separated shoulder. Here's my idea for a trick play. Against a much bigger Dallas Carter team.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Surprise handoff and just try to knock off nine of these guys with your injured shoulder. That was his trick play.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah. What other coach games, nitpicks did you have?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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No, I see what you're doing. You're worried as the years pass, the movie is going to start grabbing real estate from the TV show. So you're doing some subtle, just so everybody knows, don't touch the goat over here. Yeah, the movie's aging great, but just be careful.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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There's room for both. What's aged the worst? Anytime I see based on a true story, it's like, all right, here we go.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Based on a true story just means, hey, some of this stuff might have happened, and then we're going to take a lot of liberties. They actually stay pretty close to the true story in this one. Connie Britton's hair.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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the 80s though so let's set an 88 doesn't it feel like 80s appropriate hair i get it but i know it totally does it totally does but i just i'm watching her like oh man i just can't wait till she's coach taylor's wife yeah it's true with a more modern hairdo man this one really bugs me derrick luke was 30 years old during the filming

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Fantastic. I'm putting in the Andrea Zuckerman role. Okay. If you're in your 30s, you can't play a high school kid. Just the role.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Well, that's another example. Movie mustache buddy Garrity, does he belong in what stage is the best or what stage is the worst?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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My last one is Don's dad interrupting the hookup. It's really grim. You've really grown up. He's really kind of like... He's really getting skeevy in that one. Yeah, that's a tough one. They go pretty far. What did you have for what stage of worse, I think?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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In 2024, you'd be Googling the symptoms and you wouldn't just be like, oh, when's my knee going to be better?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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No, that is a good what's aged the worst though, because now the torn ACL, you'd fix it and you'd probably be the same or close to the same. But in 88, you were definitely going to be different. Like you were knee brace for the rest of your career type of thing.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, I think I'm blinded by Tokyo Drift because I like him in that movie and when he returns to the Fast franchise. Yeah, yeah. Could we have done better? So the one I would have rethought was... I like Jay Hernandez, but he just seems too small for me as Chavez. Maybe that was the point. He was an undersized linebacker, but he's... Really?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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As long as they have explosions in the sky, we're probably good. The thing is, though, I do feel like we've missed a lot of opportunities TV-wise to just run back a concept with different characters. Even Entourage, I think, could have easily done this and just had a different... actor or a musician or somebody in their entourage moving in and going through some of the same thing.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I mean, there's one scene when he's next to Preacher, and Preacher just seems like a foot and a half taller.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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But do you think that Winchell Saracen, maybe the quarterback on the 88 team, was a little like that? Like, you wouldn't have thought he was the quarterback, a little undersized. That must have been when they did it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Can you dig it award for most memorable core? We've mentioned a slew of them. It's probably nothing but babies and memories, right?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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That is iconic. That is a great one. All right, we're going to take one more break and then we'll hit the rest of the categories. All right, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford's hottest take award. So you kind of gave yours already.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I think Billy Bob should have played the coach in the TV show. I think it's a better move for his career.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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All right. Let me go through his career. So he's an A-lister in 2004. Here's what he does from 06 on. Again, the point of this is this is the hottest take. School for Scoundrels, The Astronaut Farmer, Mr. Woodcock, Eagle Eye, The Informers, The Smell of Success, Deadly Creatures. By 2010, he's in Faster with The Rock playing Cop.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I just think it works out better if he's on a beloved NBC show for five years playing Coach Taylor.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I don't. I am speaking sure... Purely as Billy Bob's career strategist, in retrospect, better for him to be on the TV show.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I knew that would infuriate you.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Maybe that's why he didn't do it.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Maybe it's a black, black, a hip hop star, whoever it is. I think cheers could have easily, I've talked about this in the past, just take cheers, move it into a different city and go, I think ER, which I guess they're kind of doing now with the pit max, but there's certain things that just feel like they would make sense.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Casting what ifs. So I mentioned how Brian Grazer kept the rights. Alan Jay Pakula, who's directed a couple of rewatchables, was planning to direct this film in the mid 90s. He died in 1998. That didn't happen. John Abnett, who is a pretty well-known director back then, he had a big run at it. Richard Linklater.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Was all in, wrote the script. They had a budget. And then I guess it was too expensive. That got pulled. And then it eventually led to Peter Berg. But there's apparently like seven different versions of this before it got there. Garrett Hedlund moved to L.A., was in there for a month, and won roles in Troy and Friday Night Lights. Pretty good. He'd been in L.A. for like four weeks. Not bad.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I wasn't satisfied with the casting. What if? So I texted Peter Berg and I was like, can you give me one casting? What if from the movie that nobody knows? And he's like, there's a great one. Don's dad. The person that he tried to get was James Hetfield from Metallica.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah. And he said it's a crazy story, but it didn't happen. And then Tim McGraw was great, so it worked out. Interesting. James Hetfield, who, by the way, doesn't act.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Something about James Hetfield's energy he thought would be the right guy for Don Billingsley's dad.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Great casting with If. Incredible. Sometimes you got to go off the internet and go right to the source.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I feel like you and five other people are the only people who know Buddy Garrity's name is Bradley Lynn.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I think Buddy Garrity is the best that guy because I see him in anything. I'm like, Buddy Garrity. I don't think of him as Bradley Lynn.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Really good. Dion Waiters Award, Buddy Garrett, he's eligible. Former Permian player coming in for the baby pic. Girl who seduces Mike Winchell. Or Flippy.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Or girl who's about to have sex with Don Billingsley and then it doesn't happen. I think those are all the candidates. Unless you want to go anyone with the coin flip.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, I think he wins. Remember every minute of it. Babies and memories.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And to me, high school football in Texas, they could have moved Friday nightlights, put it in Pennsylvania. Yeah. They could have put it in Minnesota. I think there's places it could have kept going, but I guess they're just saying we're running back Texas. Would you put it in a different city or no?

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Recasting couch director of City. So I'm actually, I had the Lucas Black character down.

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‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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But I couldn't think of anybody in that age range.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And what I realized was that this would have been an amazing mid-90s Matt Damon part.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Like a 1993 school ties era Matt Damon as Winchell. But he was too old by the time they made this movie. Interesting. Whoever Matt Damon was in 2003, I think might have been the move.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Oh, Chris Comer's got to find his home at Mike. He's just got to find it. Yeah, I hate it. I was thinking Chris Collins were talking about Preacher would have been really fun. Oh, yeah. I want you to watch. He's being double teamed, Mike. Every game, these guys are huge. Every play, he's killing these guys. Half-assed internet research. Mm-hmm.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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There's cameos in this movie from Roy Williams, the receiver.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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There's a highlight of Aqib Talib at some point when they're splicing highlights. Yep. The real Boobie Miles plays a Permian assistant.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You can see him next to Coach Gaines during the big halftime speech. Saw that happen. Tweaks from real life. Boobie Miles was actually a fullback in real life. Don Billingsley's father, Charlie, lost the finals in 1968.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Real boobie got hurt in a preseason game. You mentioned that. And then there's a million differences with how the 88 season went that I'm not going to go through all of them. The most interesting one was Carter High. You mentioned that they had their title revoked. So the team that they played in the finals was Converse Judson.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And they ended up being the state champions. So Permian actually could have been. And then Permian did win the next year. Then there's some stuff with how Permian was portrayed in the movie compared to it's a much bigger, robust town in real life, I think.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then we mentioned the racism stuff, too.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Berg was so obsessed with the football scenes that he spent several weekends following Permian and an Austin team called Westlake High just to just to soak in everything and then try to put as much as possible in the movie and then there's a kind of a bummer of a story about Brian Chavez because he went to Harvard got his law degree moved back to Odessa and

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Um, and then ended up in this whole thing where he, he ended up in this huge fight. He got a felony. He had to give up his license for a little bit and now he's back and it's all good. But it was, it was a big story at the time because when it happened, the movie had happened. The TV show had happened. Apex mountain. Friday Night Lights is a property. No, come on.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I don't. Okay. Billy Bob Thornton.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It's dialogue. That wasn't Sunday morning sex. That was angry Saturday night sex.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Peter Berg. No. No. But I think it's actually the TV series putting that together. Yep. Agreed. I think was such a hard achievement to pull off. And then all the ways that show almost died and it should have died after its first season. I remember writing... I wrote about this in the magazine piece I did that year.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Wrote a magazine column about it because it seemed like it was going to get canceled. I had stopped watching it like everybody else because it was pre-streaming. If you felt like the show was going to get canceled or you missed the first two episodes, it was really hard to jump into a show. And the show didn't do well. And then that summer, there was some rerun stuff.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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A friend of mine got me these Japanese DVDs that I watched that summer, caught up, and then I was like, we can't get this. The show has to come back. It came back, writer's strike. Probably should have been canceled after the writer's strike because they had a bad second season, which we don't talk about.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Three, four, and five. They also, they nailed... We have to graduate some of these guys and bring new people in. Are the new people going to hold up to the old people? And they have this new cast that included Michael B. Jordan. So everything he did with that show, I think... He's had a really good career. He's directed a lot of big movies. He's made a lot of money.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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But I would think he would agree that the show is the apex.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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believable yeah to get michael b jordan at that point in his career is unbelievable yeah my favorite show i and i wrote about this at the time but my favorite sports show ever was the white shadow and they never figured out that third season when they had to graduate some of the people and they kind of kept the coach there the people they brought in weren't as fun as the previous people and the show just got canceled right so i think by the time we got to the

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Late 2000s, they had enough evidence of how to not do this that they did it correctly. And they had a big twist. They brought in new people. They really took pains to figure out who to cast. Anyway, Garrett Hedlund, I think he's done some good stuff. I think his Apex Mountain was the country's strong rewatchables. Because he was probably as surprised as everyone else.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Black Nikes? No, but prominently displayed. Texas high school football content? Probably the TV show.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

5337.235

It's a whole scene with a coin toss. I'm going to say yes. Jay Hernandez, no, because I think he's been in a bunch of stuff. Lucas Black. It's probably Tokyo Drift.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah. Yeah. Horrible sports movie parents.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Really tough to top Charlie Billingsley.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Cruise or Hanks? Cruise. Cruise? Yeah. As Coach Gaines?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The answer is Hanks. But unfortunately, because we have a tie, we have to bring in producer Craig Early. He's got to decide it. Cruiser Hanks. Craig, you have the tiebreaker as a cruiser Hanks.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Cruz being like a diehard longtime Texas guy makes zero sense. No.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I don't know. What's the tally now, Craig? This is our last one of the year.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Typical. Can't wait to get Craig's take at the end. Racehorse, rock band, wrestler, or fantasy team name? Would you go Boobie Miles or would you go Babies and Memories?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

5501.982

Great dog name. You know, my wife looked at me last night as she was lying in bed with one dog on one side and one dog on the other side. And said, let's get a cat. And she said, when Ben goes to college, we're getting a third dog. And she didn't say it in a way that it was an argument.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I told her I was going to move out if that happened. I don't like cats.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I don't. It would be the cruelest thing ever to do to Murph. It would ruin Murph's life.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

5540.42

Mojo would be a good name for a dog. Picky knits. We did so many of these earlier. We did a lot of these, yeah. Cooper's coach didn't realize his coin was tails? You fucking moron.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Well, I think the movie's 04, the TV series is 06. Yeah. We don't have any of the stuff we have now. From a storytelling standpoint, documentaries, followed the team around for a season, QB1, social media. We didn't really know anything about these worlds other than what was on SportsCenter, what was written about in a Sports Illustrated feature. Kind of going in blank.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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My 1969 Buffalo nickel. What's that? Who flips a nickel in a coin toss? It has to be at least a half dollar.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Great stuff. Last game, there's some score issues. Again, I'm right here. I've been here for the last 30 years as a sports movie consultant. Last game goes from 18-7. It's 26-7 right before the half. They say it's 18-7, and then at halftime, it's 20. I don't know what happened with the extra eight points.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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In the game, all of a sudden, it's 26-14 in the third quarter. We don't know how they got the second touchdown. Mm-hmm. Winchell takes 30 rough in the QB penalties. Yeah. I know it was a little crazier back then, a little more violent.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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But I don't remember an era of football ever where every single time the quarterback was just getting teed off on three seconds after he released the ball. I'm positive that was always a penalty.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And I would add Preacher at tight end on any third and short. He's just going in. The defense is going to have to worry about him. You have any nitpicks or can we keep going?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Heat it up. He's like Jordan Love. As soon as he's down 20, he heats up. The Jordan Love story. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable. Well, we have an answer to that one. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Sid Goldberg, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Nell, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Evil After Ramon Raymond, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Trejo is Chavez's dad. Interesting. We get one bar scene with him. He's a little rowdy, but he's a great dad and somebody insults the team and he ends up fighting two guys in the bar and just does Danny Trejo stuff. And then maybe he gets beaten almost near death and coach Gaines comes to see him. And he's like, yeah, Gary, I like it. Don't leave me like this. It's good.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Gary, don't leave me homes. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Oh, that's, I thought you were going to go coin toss. He's there in the coin toss. Just being like 1969 Buffalo nickel. Oh, look at this guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So when they brought us into this first with Varsity Blues, which there was a couple, I don't want to call rip off things because we love Varsity Blues, but there was Against the Grain, an NBC show with Ben Affleck as the quarterback that failed. There was varsity blues. Same thing. Like, let's go into this Texas world. What is this? Why do they care about high school football so much?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Just one Oscar who gets it. probably the explosions in the sky.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Um, where does preacher rank for you? Greatest sports movie, football legends we've ever had. Cause like the bar for me is, and we did it this year on rewatchables fast times.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The forest Whitaker character, just demolishing everybody. That's like probably a 10 out of 10 preachers, a solid nine, nine. It feels like, yeah, if he doesn't have seven sacks forced to turnovers and 40 tackles in the championship game, they probably don't come close.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And I just like those characters in general, the guys who are just, you know, everybody wants some has that, which is ironically the mustache guy. What was that guy's name? Not Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell is good too, but a mustache guy who looks like Burt Reynolds and everybody wants them where it's just like, he's just clearly the best guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I like when sports movies, there's also like clearly a best guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Well, the problem is the dumbass coach was, he did a whole... Yeah. He built the whole offense around a running back and didn't even know his third down running back could do anything. Classic. I had for unanswerables, where does this movie rank in the best football movies ever? And it's in the top six.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And I think it really depends on... I think Longest Yard is just number one. It has to be. It was the first one. The football scenes are still great. And then the next five in some order are Friday Night Lights, North Dallas 40, Remember the Titans, Rudy... in any given Sunday.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I think, and it really depends on what you want out of your football movie, but I think those five, if you're starting the discussion, I think those five have to be in it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. We're Mally Rubin hosts House of R with Joanna Robinson, who we team up, the three of us, Prestige TV podcast, season three of White Lotus in February. We did the recaps for season two. We're doing them again for season three. We're not splitting up Joanna and Rob Mahoney. They're going to do the precaps on Friday.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then after that, I would do Varsity Blues, All the Right Moves, The Replacements, and Draft Day, which we did together on the rewatch. The best. Really fun football movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Then this movie nailed it. And then the TV series took it to nine other levels. But I do feel like in 2024, we do have more info on this stuff now, right?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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No, just football. Sports movies featuring football.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then the only other one, Necessary Roughness is good. And then after that, it gets pretty bad, and we haven't had one in a while. Yeah. We haven't had a good one in a while, I should say. And I'm sure I forgot one, but I think that's the list. But Friday Night Lights is somewhere number two to number six.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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On the list. Interesting. Yeah. For Craig, replacements is number one after we did replacements. Great one. Great one. All right, so we're done with unanswerables, and now we have... Wait, I wanted to ask you for unanswerables.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I think with Booby... Yeah. First of all, thank you for asking. You're welcome. I think with boobie, they're probably the number two best odds.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So they're basically where like the Eagles are right now. Right. Probably like minus or I'm sorry, plus like 300 plus 350 range. No boobie championship game. Dallas Carter, probably like 16 and a half point underdogs. 16 and a half. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Holy shit. 14 and a half? I mean, it was like an all-time powerhouse in a huge city versus a team in a smaller city missing their best player.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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They lost two regular season games.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Somewhere 13 and a half to 16 and a half, I would say. Okay. I mean, after seeing Dallas Carter, you could argue maybe they should have been like 20 point favorites, but I almost feel like you have to do like college lines for that one. Best double feature choice. Varsity Blues is too easy, but I'm going to do it anyway.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, just Varsity Blues right into this. Let's get both sides of it. We get the super fun Texas version, then we get the serious version.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Oh, yeah. We did that as a live show. I remember. What theater was that?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The Indian Reds of Watanabe Award, what happened the next day? Just notable, Gary Gaines went to college after they won the title in the next year, became an assistant in a bunch of different programs, bounced around a little bit, and then came back to Permian in the late 2000s.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah. This is like really hard. Almost impossible. Could have skipped it. What piece of memorabilia would you want from the movie? I could offer you the Boobie Miles jersey or the Boobie Miles nameplate. I could offer you the Permian coin, the 1969 nickel. I could offer you something else. Great one.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Oh, that's a great one. I should have had that. Yeah, no, that's the answer.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You could have put it right behind you. I could. In your podcast territory. Still can. Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. You may never matter again in your life as much as you do right now.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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All right, that's good too. Who won the movie? Peter Berg?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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He's great. Him and Garrett Hedlund, I think, are the performances. All right, it's time. Producer Craig Horlbeck had not seen this movie. I'm a little nervous.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It's a captivating scene for some reason. It is. Anyway, what's your take?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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uh my god just just an unfathomable situation i you guys should have hit on even byron may even byron mayo wouldn't have done that i feel like he would ask for permission from somebody dad just go back to your room so uh so did this make you want to watch the tv show now could be the next step you and liz you have to yeah i think it might be our next rewatch craig did she watch the movie with you

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Oh, because Garrett Hedlund, I thought maybe.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Bang out like two episodes and see how it feels.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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If you like the movie, there's no way you won't like the TV show. I would say it's an impossibility.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The book was about 88. And I think they were staying faithful to the book. Cause the book was like an iconic book. Like if you, if you like football and you liked reading, you read the book. So I think that's why they did it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The book was about the 88 season and it came out after the season they won.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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He was a really big newspaper writer and he took a year off to follow the team around in 88. So that was what the book was about. And then he went back to his job and wrote the book.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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So I think that's why they did it that way, but you're right. It's, I think there was a 30 for 30. I don't, I don't remember if I was still there or not, but we did a 30 for 30 about the Dallas Carter team at some point.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Um, but I can't remember if it was a short or what we did so many of those, but, uh, Yeah, the Dallas Carter having to give the title back was like a big... That was like a national story in the late 80s.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Are you watching Landman yet, Craig?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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You got the playoffs. The Steelers are going to be out after round one and no more fantasy football. And you have the draft coming in a while from now. I don't know. You have some time for a show.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I don't think Landman, I don't know if there's ever been a better show that you don't have to 100% watch as you're watching it. You can like 89% watch it, but also like kind of look at the internet.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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It's not high enough. I think it should be higher. It's the best. 110 should be the percentage rating. All right, that's it for the rewatchables. That was our last one of 2024. Thank you to Mallory Rubin. It was great to see you.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Thank you, Craig. Another great year for us. At some point, we got to do the rewatchables mailbag because we have... All of these mailbag things that we can do. So 2025 next year, some fun anniversaries. It's the 30th anniversary of the 95. Really nice run. 90 was super fun. We've done a lot of the movies from those years, but we'll probably do some more. Thanks to Good How as well. That's it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I guess we're coming back next week. We might do two next week. So just know that. And you can watch all of these that we've done for the last couple of years on the ringer movies, YouTube channel that has some great stuff on there as well. Don't forget me and Mal and Joanne on the prestige TV podcast next month, white Lotus on a nice Craig Mallory. Thank you. Great to see you guys.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Well, you hit the two big things, NIL and social media. Yeah. which in the movie don't exist. In the TV series, there's a little social media stuff. Like there was the, what was Mika Kelly's character name?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Lila, the slam page episode, which was like one of the first great social media episodes, even though we didn't really have social media.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Imagine Boobie Miles with NIL, TikTok, the whole thing. So I mentioned how it had been 16 years from book to movie. Yeah. there were seven different rejected scripts. Brian Grazer owned the rights for a while. Different people will go into some of the casting, what if stuff with it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And at some point there were seven rejected scripts that kind of got pushed aside. And according to the research, Peter Berg read all of them and reread the book. And he was like, what did they get wrong? And he realized that, All these things were about trying to get race and oil and all these different big picture Texas themes.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And he was like, the book's about what football means to this community, what football means to Texas, that you basically peak when you're in high school if you're on one of these teams. Those are the themes I need to put in the movie. And I got to say, I like the movie even more than I did when it came out. And I think part of it is because I was going to do this in What's Aged the Best.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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The way they film it was so dramatic in 2004, the quick cuts. I saw this. I actually saw a screening for it because I had known Peter forever, and he had a screening for a bunch of family friends. And I remember my one takeaway was like, I'm a little dizzy. That was, that was hard. But now I watch it. I feel like every movie is like this. I'm totally used to watching it.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And then the three of us, because we had a great time the last time.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Did you notice that this time around that it seemed way more not busy or

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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I don't even remember. It felt like, was that 10 years ago? Was it two? Was it one? How long ago was it?

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Yeah, widescreen. When this movie was on the square TVs in the five, six years after it came out, it was just harder to follow. But it felt super shaky. So a couple themes with this. One, you mentioned earlier about sports movies. The documentary boom hasn't taken off yet. Sports movies still have this outsized impact on how we consume stuff as sports fans. And this is coming off...

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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This really kind of cool, fun era of sports movies where it was like this 3.0 version of For Love of the Game, Any Given Sunday. No, Tin Cup was 96. The Replacements, Mystery Alaska. It's Summer Catch. There was like a cottage industry. All of them were making money. Remember the Titans? I can name like 20 of them. They're all doing really well.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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Friday Night Lights is moving us toward this next iteration of whatever that was. It's leading to stuff like Moneyball and Win-Win and dramas that also happen to be about sports. I think by the end of the decade, Friday Night Lights sets the tone for that. That's one thing. The other thing is it's the rare sports movie where the good guys don't win. Which has happened like less than 10 times.

The Rewatchables

‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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And it's always infuriating when it happens the first time. But then from a rewatchable standpoint, it's actually great that they don't win.

The Rewatchables

‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Karen! That was all the money we had!

The Rewatchables

‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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$12.8 million made $10.3 million.

The Rewatchables

‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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I care more about how this looks.

The Rewatchables

‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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You come back, you come back for me. It's a good line. Not for your goddamn job. You come back for me, okay?

The Rewatchables

‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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Okay. Bill, what the fuck? I'm just going through her playbook. Okay. So Claire rubs one out. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Someone to Watch Over Me’ With Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan

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There's no guy jumping the rails.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood.

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‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Do they still do the we'll see? They don't do it the same way anymore. I don't feel like we'll see is a huge move.

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It was one of those movies that also makes you reevaluate whoever you're dating at the time.

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That's how I felt for kicking and screaming. I remember leaving the theater. I was like, oh my God, I gotta get a job. One quote from this movie, being with you has made me feel like I'm somebody else. Jesse says that. I always thought that was a great quote and a good example of when you meet somebody like this, they don't know any of your baggage. They don't know anything.

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You're looking, you're looking fit today. Um, you can find this podcast and all the movie stuff we do. on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel, a great channel, which we're going to be trying to spruce up during 2025. Subscribe to that. Coming up before sunrise, three guys getting romantic about a romantic movie. Let's go.

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They're just seeing you as this fresh thing, and you learn from your past mistakes, especially if you're in that 23 to 25 range. You've had some swings and some misses. Yeah. You've run some goal line offense plays that didn't work. Yeah. You've tried to make some stuff work out of the shotgun on third and 14. Yeah. You kind of know a place to run a little bit more. Yeah.

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Right. There's no, there's no basketball reference for, for your playoff record. And you can just meet this person and just start fresh with some of the, and Jesse's at that perfect point.

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And not to bring up the second movie again, but it's one of the interesting things about the second movie is how they're not doing some of the stuff to do in the first movie, where a lot of it is that they're not, I don't want to say bits, but, But it's a lot of people kind of talking out of their ass in a really fun way.

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And then in the second movie, it's not like that as much.

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And I think if I had to summarize the theme of this movie, it's obviously about connection, but she says that thing about how she worked for the old man. And once he told me that he spent his whole life thinking about his career and his work, and he was 52, and it suddenly struck him that he had never really given himself a... giving anything of himself. His life was for no one and nothing.

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He was almost crying saying that, which I think is the point of the movie. It's like, if you don't connect with somebody, your fucking life's going to suck. And it doesn't matter how successful you are. Because Jesse, he gets that question later. Would you rather be, would you rather be really good at something or would you rather find a connection?

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And I think that's, I think that's what, whatever Linklater cared about, I think that was it. Because he probably had a little bit of a success, but he also hadn't found anybody that you know, he was with. And he was probably battling, and that somehow became the movie.

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I have no idea what your situation is, but I feel like we have some kind of connection.

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Yeah, she's able to articulate these incredibly complicated ideas. Yeah, she's just better at explaining her point in life, but he's more interesting at it.

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movie characters I always wanted to meet in real life but they didn't exist in real life Celine's way up there god she's so beautiful she's so great conversely I think I would have absolutely melted into a fucking puddle if I had met Celine at like age 24 it would have been lights out I don't even know if I would have had the balls to do what Jesse did He had even talked to her in the train.

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Yeah. Once that accent came out and she was so interesting, I just was like, oh my God. He speaks perfect English.

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So listen, here's the deal. This is what we should do. You should get off the train with me here in Vienna and come check out the town.

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slacker singles reality bites kicking screaming clerks before sunrise mall rats swingers yeah you can throw a few throw in a couple but I this could be 20 it could be 12 it could be but I feel like those eight have to be at least eight of the eight whatever the final number all movies about people in their early 20s talking about pop culture and love and existence basically kind of wandering around life hoping to connect with whoever yeah right that's the theme ultimately

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Linklater, you mentioned Slacker, Days, Before Sunrise. That's the first three for him. Solid.

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Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again.

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Well, it's weird to be an indie director, especially from this era and not, and also be a romantic filmmaker. and not have like weird shit in the movie. Cause that was another thing that the nineties, you know, couldn't resist throwing in some sort of weird monkey wrench. There are no monkey wrenches in this movie. Yeah.

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Yeah. Hawk, dead poets, which we've done. We talked about the position he was in when he did Alive. We did Reality Bites too. Dead Poets, Mr. Date, Weifang. Then he has Alive, Reality Bites. Stuff's happening with them. But this cemented it.

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I think after this movie, even though it didn't make a shitload of money, but I think the combo of this and Reality Bites and Alive, it felt like he was a young star that led to Gattaca and then it kept going from there.

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Mm-hmm. Let's take a break and then a couple more things and we'll get to the categories. All right, so we talked about Hawk and Linklater. So it took them nine months to settle on Hawk and Delpy. We'll get to some of the casting what-ifs with that. But he was... This movie was impeccably rehearsed. He spent a ton of time with them. They had a script. They had a screenplay.

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All right, this is an I remember where I saw this in what theater I was in.

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Some stuff was added after. Julie Delpy was talking about, is anyone actually going to like this? This isn't going to be boring to just watch us. And Hawk said, Linklater said... We're not making the movie for them. We don't have to tell any jokes. We don't have to be interesting. You guys don't even have to act. He wanted to make a film about the power of connection.

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And that was all he cared about. And I don't even... My guess is he never probably thought this was even going to be a big movie. I think he wanted it to be a great movie, but I don't think he was thinking, oh, my God, we're going to crush. We're opening weekend.

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Yeah, every once in a while, there's a Bad News Bears remake in there. We were like, why did he do that?

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movie um it's a movie that describes your view of life both when you saw it and then all the years later it's a true classic it's before sunrise it's a all-time gen x movie uh it's a great 90s movie it's aged perfectly and i almost don't even think we need to do the pod i have no notes see you later yeah what's aged the worst i was like nothing zero

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And it has, like, a big... Joe kept lying.

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I remember being super excited to see it in the theater because it had some Sundance momentum. And I knew about that because that was there when you were reading all the movie stuff. But I also really liked Ethan Hawke. I liked him in Dead Poets. I liked him in Reality Bites. And I liked him in Alive. And I'm like, I'm ready for the next journey with him.

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And that was kind of all I knew in the movie. you know, surpassed all expectations.

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I think I had, but I don't remember having a huge opinion on her.

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Well, Linklater, he wrote it with Kim Krasan. They wrote it in 11 days, but they didn't know the ending until the final day of filming. And then they kept tweaking it.

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The Falco Copland? This movie premiered at Sundance 1995. I'm going to read the list of movies that premiered that year and see if Sean passes out. Before Sunrise The Usual Suspects The Brothers McMullen Kids from Larry Clark Safe from Todd Haynes The Doom Generation The Addiction Party Girl, Little Odessa, Meryl's Wedding, and Crumb. Wow.

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Do you come back from that festival? It's like, what happened to Sean?

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You've got to become an Austrian man. $2.5 million budget made $22.5 million. Everyone in this film jokes that it was the lowest grossing film ever to get a sequel. I don't know if that's factually true.

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Penitentiary 2 with Lee and Isaac Kennedy happened. I'm just saying. I'm sure there were some sequels. Roger Ebert. Disappointing start to the year for Raj. Three stars. Thought for sure it'd be the three and a half. A little more muted in his praise. Yeah. He wrote, this sort of scenario has happened, I imagine, millions of times.

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It has rarely happened in a nicer, sweeter, more gentle way than in Richard Linklater's Before Sunrise, which I would call a love affair for Generation X. You're fucking A-right, Raj. Except that Jesse and Celine stand outside their generation. Especially outside its boring insistence on being bored. Yo, Raj!

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This movie, we had a mail... When we did the Rewatchables mailbag, there was that person who had that... They wanted to add the category about, did this movie achieve perfection? It didn't have to be a perfect movie, but for what the movie was trying to do... Oh, because there's also a cigarette one, too. Yeah, there's some good cigarettes. But for what the movie was trying to do... Mm-hmm.

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Well, he did write that Delpy is ravishingly beautiful and more important, warm, a matter of fact. Um... And he says, this is Linklater's third film. He's onto something. He likes the way ordinary time unfolds for people as they cross paths, start talking, share their thoughts, and uncertain philosophies.

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Categories. New category. We have some new ones because we had that mailbag. Thanks to everybody who sent ideas. What's the exact perfect age to see this movie?

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was 25 when i saw it i think i would have probably enjoyed it slightly more at 23 because you're like even a little bit more idealistic at 23. yeah but you are also you have some of your full moves down at that point too but it's somewhere in them i would say early 20s but i gotta say it was super enjoyable to watch at my age now i was like wow still this movie still got it most rewatchable scene so

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This movie starts with a mid-40s couple fighting in a foreign language, and it somehow works.

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Did it achieve it? Did it throw basically a no-hitter? And I think this movie achieved every single thing it wanted to do with the added bonus that it endured 30 years later. That it still, even though, you know, they don't have phones, they're not texting, but for the most part, this is a watchable movie now, even for people like my daughter.

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That's what they said in the other language. It's perfect.

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But then it leads to, yeah, for the series, it's a really interesting way to start it. But it leads to, do you ever hear that when couples get older, they lose the ability to hear each other, which is one of those like, might be true, might not be true. Yeah.

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But a good conversation starter. Do you think it's true?

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I just think your hearing gets worse when you get older. I don't know if it has anything to do with who you're with.

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Next scene. Jesse gets Celine to leave the train.

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That sounded like Klosterman. Great, great, great way to get her to come off the train. And then in some of the pieces about it, he said they really improv spitballed all kinds of scenarios for this and couldn't get Delpy in the right spot with No, I'd actually get off the train for that. And then they came up with this time machine thing.

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She said, he would have to show me that he was really smart. He has to be smart and funny. That's the only way I would get off the train. The time traveler thing. And she's like, okay, that I would get off the train for. And then they were off. Can you imagine if Julie Delpy was like, I don't believe it.

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Should Jesse have thrown a Shakir? Next category, the long one-shot bus ride as Jesse does advanced metrics on souls. Yeah. I got to admit, Jesse kind of blew my mind with that one.

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That should just turn first take instead of talking about sports. It should just be like Stephen A. and Matt Dogg talking about soul sleep. I would listen to that.

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The long one-shot bus ride and just long one-shots like that in general. From a rewatchable standpoint, I had so much fun in the movie. Because I watched it twice leading up to the pod. And it's just so much fun to just watch the background and be like, did they cheat this? No, they didn't cheat it. It's all one shot. And they basically did it like a play.

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Oh, yeah. The listening booth scene. That's my next one as well. Which is my winner for most rewatchable. Is it?

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Interesting. I would not have guessed that if I had to pick. That seems great. No dialogue. No dialogue and really smart and really well played. Linklater said... It was the only time he withheld anything from the two of them. About what the song was going to sound like? They had never heard the song.

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And he says, you can really see them listening because they'd never heard that yearning, creaky thing. The singer is Cath Bloom. Hawk said, it's probably my single favorite take of anything I've ever been involved with. And then Delpy said, that was really special. It was like magic. Every time I felt Ethan looking away, I would look at him and vice versa.

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I almost fell in love with him right there. But then Rick said, cut.

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there's that's a whole separate podcast also talked about this a long time with my wife last night like there had to have been one night where they got drunk and things happened i believe my question was over under how many times have they hooked up five and oh i'd say at least at least three did they date did they date for like a week they're very very circumspect about this thing too yeah

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Yeah, well, I don't want to... There is no way that they didn't get drunk and had at least a one-nighter.

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There's one other movie, Jackie Brown, Bridget Fonda, De Niro. When it was fucking her standing up from behind, I was like, those two are soulmates. I love those two.

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Oh, my God. That's De Niro's funniest moment ever in a movie.

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She's great. I can't wait to do that movie. It's on the list. I can't wait. Listing Booth is great. And the fact that it was one take and that was all the first one, I just love that scene.

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Amusement parks... This is more good Jesse theories. Rich parents give their kids too much. Poor parents don't give their kids enough. There's nothing in the middle. He's just whipping it all out at this point. All his material. Do you know any happy couples? I like being at amusement parks just in general, a movie or a TV show. Always a win. You get to see good scenery.

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A lot of people walk around. The homeless poet. My guy.

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I went and I actually read it, and it's just sweet cakes and milkshakes. I'm a delusion angel. I'm a fantasy parade. Real beat stuff.

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Really good, like, little short sentences. Yeah. I love poetry, Bill.

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Drop a tear in my wine glass. Look at those big eyes. See what you mean to me? It's great stuff. Shades of woman, whoa, man.

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Yeah, that's all amusement park. Okay. So you'd put fortune teller in there?

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I like the actress. Yeah. The fortune teller. I've got her on a list here. I should have put that in here. Great question that is asked. Would you rather find love or excel at one thing? That whole scene.

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He's got to see that. The fake phone calls.

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The reverse time traveler. I've seen the future, and it's All 22. They went empty backfield. Five wide. I'm sorry, Selene, but I'm a ball knower.

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The fake phone calls should not have worked, but I really enjoyed the scene. It's really cute. It's awesome. It's really funny. It's a really good gimmick. It's one of those things like if you're an aspiring screenwriter or director. It's a Delphi thing, though.

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I like her American accent, too, where she's like, dude, you gotta call her. She's so good. Jesse gets the bartender to give him a bottle of wine. It's great. Got a lot of questions about that.

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more wisdom from Celine in another scene when she talks about love when you talked earlier about after a few years how a couple would begin to hate each other by anticipating their reactions or getting tired of their mannerisms I think it would be the opposite for me I think I can really fall in love when I know everything about someone

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Idealistic, great. I mailed that to my wife and I said... This is how I feel when I know you're about to lose your keys. And she didn't think it was funny.

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Loves it. Okay. Like an all-timer. It might have been one of the first ones that we owned on DVD, but she bought it anyway on streaming. It was one of those. It was like one of the first double purchases. We got to get her that Criterion Collection box set. We have it. Okay. We have that now, too. Great, great criterion.

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No, because I'm only buying stuff. I go on Amazon and I have a certain price limit because I'm trying to not go crazy like Sean. But it's like total recalls, 57% off today. I'm like, fine. $11. This is how it starts.

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Oh, all five for $40? For the Bond movies. For the Bonds. Yeah.

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Thank you. I knew I'd have your support. Last scene is the ending, which I think is just brilliant and would be my other thing for most people.

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No, I'm saying... Or just the train? The goodbye, first when she's lying on his lap. Yeah. They drop the stuff off. But I think the most genius part of this movie is when he shows all the places they were. Yeah. Love that. Which is obviously stolen from John Carpenter in Halloween. And I know that was a big influence on the movie. Yeah. But I thought it worked really well. You know, Myers.

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Myers was there. And then he was standing next to that hedge. And Linklater's like, this could work for romance, too. You just saw Selene get on the train and Michael Myers. He's just right next to her. Bring it all back. Yeah. But I love that because I guess the point is like, you know, they gave all these places life. They're not there anymore, but it's still fucking cool.

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And hey, there's this memory that was in this spot, in this spot.

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CR was a big cafe car guy too. Yeah. What was your order?

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See, I was in the smoking car hoping for Julie Delpy. I mean, who wasn't?

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What's aged the best? Movies set on trains. I love a good train scene in a movie. Obviously, I was riding a train back and forth as a parent, as a child of divorce. I have a bunch of them. Sierra, give me a couple.

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I had movies that eventually had sequels where the characters age with the sequels. I don't feel like that recipe is lost yet. It's really hard to pull off.

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The Town 2, whenever that happens. Doug McCrane.

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For what takes the best, the Anonymous Cemetery I thought was cool because I just didn't know that story. I always thought that was a neat idea for a cemetery. So the film starts June 16th, 1994 and ends June 17th, 1994, which was also, we did a 30 for 30 about that day. That was the OJ car chase. The first day of the first us world cup, Nick's rockets game five ranger Stanley cup parade.

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Arnold Palmer's last US Open round and Jesse said goodbye to Celine. All happened on June 17, 1994.

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I, well. Oh, that's it. I had that for probably unanswerable. Where's Jesse from? I can't remember if they answered it.

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Follow The Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

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He feels like he's like a Sacramento. Really? Like a Northern California somewhere. I can't remember. I don't know.

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Just a couple quotes for what's aged the best. If none of your friends or family know you're dead, it's not like really being dead. People can invent the best or worst for you. That made me think. That was deep. You know what the worst thing about somebody breaking up with you?

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It's when you remember how little you thought about the people you broke up with and you realize that's how little they're thinking of you. One of the best quotes of any movie like this.

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If there's any magic in this world, it must be in the attempt of understanding someone. Solid. Do I keep potting with you guys? Great shot Gorter Award for most cinematic shot. What do you got, C.R. ?

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I had the wide shot of Jesse sitting on the railing talking to her with that beautiful building behind them. I thought it was really cool. I think the ending's really good too.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3389.71

Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop, clearly the Cath Bloom song.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3404.555

We have a new award. You guys don't know about this one. The Sean Fantasy Award. Oh. You finally got an award named after you. I'm touched. The Sean Fantasy Award for Stealth Homage That Gives Every Movie Nerd a Criteriorgasm. I came up with that word.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3426.529

I thought for you it would be the Ferris wheel that they ride in Vienna is the same one used in The Third Man.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

343.0

I think it is. Well, when I think about those movies, and you mentioned some of them... And also this Gen X era. And obviously I was the age... I was probably a year older than Jesse when I saw this movie. But it's all pre-internet to me. It's this time capsule of what life was like before email and text and everything else showed up. And...

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3435.036

The listening booth you mentioned earlier has... My Darling Clementine.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3462.018

Do you like Criteriorgasm or Criteriongasm? I think I like Criteriorgasm.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3483.828

New category from the mailbag. The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name. It's got to be Celine, right? It's got to be Celine. Easy. All right. We're going to take a break and come back with yet another new category. All right, coming back. So we added this category after the mailbag because we took out some categories, but we also didn't want to remove them completely.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3509.568

So what we're adding is a flex category for the other hosts that aren't me. CR, you can flex any category that didn't make the blueprint cut and roll with them.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3533.192

This also could be the Chris Ryan award for would this movie be better if the main character smoked? In my memory, I thought he was a smoker. Well, because in reality, he chain smokes.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3568.655

This is not only a nitpick. Not only a probably unanswerable question, but it's also the Chris Ryan Award. I don't understand the choice. Other than maybe Ethan Hawke felt like he smoked so much in Reality Bites, he's like, I don't want to be typecast as the guy who's just sucking.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3590.659

It's the only thing that bothers me about this movie is I have no idea why they're not having cigs. It's inexplicable. It's the most like, why aren't you guys smoking? Especially in this era, 94 and 95. Like they're definitely one of the two is smoking, but probably both.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3614.013

Okay. Also, Ethan Hawke, great smoker. Sure. You're just like wasting a talent. I'm just guessing Delpy wasn't a bad smoker either. Yeah. French girl? Yeah. Good one. The Butcher's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. What do you have? Do you have a weak link of the film? It's okay not to have one.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

364.022

People were really lost just trying to find connections. You would just go to a bar and hope you ran into somebody. You would meet some girl or if you're a girl, some boy, and you'd be like, maybe this is the one, but you'd have no idea. You wouldn't even know if they tried to call you again. It was like, oh, my answer machine didn't work. There was just this sense of...

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3643.848

Do you have one? I don't have a weak link for this movie. I have one, and you guys aren't going to be happy, and I might not even berate, but I didn't want to just toss away the category.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3652.75

I was thinking about the closing credit song, and I went back and I looked through all the 1995 songs that I have on every playlist, trying to figure out if there was a better song that would have made it feel more 1995-ish. Jeremy. Sorry. I have two runner-up choices, and then the choice that I actually think could have worked, but just would have been more 1995-ish. Blue by the Jayhawks.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3678.791

I don't think it totally works, but it's a really good song. And it's 1995. Good Riddance by Green Day. Probably too corny.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3686.935

Oh, it sure is. Wow. I wouldn't have guessed that early. But Bread is Yellow by the Innocence Mission. That's the one I landed on.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3701.702

I forced it. I'm not sure I'm right. What's aged the worst? I don't have anything other than there was some screenwriting credit stuff that emerged in the mid-2010s with Delpy where she basically said, we got hosed on our screenwriting credit and Linklater and Chrisanne were on the defense and it became a story that a lot of people wrote about. Then there was some pay stuff.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3722.555

Yeah, there was a pay gap thing too. She didn't make as much. But Ethan Hawke was a famous...

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

382.972

if I meet somebody, is this going to last? Is this going to get screwed up? If they, if I lose their number, we'll ever see or hear from them again. All of these things that made like the, the value of a connection. I, I, I really think we valued it more back then. I hate to be like the old man on the lawn, but it feels like it's so much easier to connect with whoever. You can go on the internet.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3824.523

I watched it with my daughter and her boyfriend, Tommy, last week because I was in Boston. Tommy's a romantic, so of course he liked it. My daughter was on TikTok half the time and thought there was too much talking. Tough beat.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3843.175

Tough beat for me. She was like, I told you I wasn't really in the mood for a movie. It was one of those, I'll watch it again when I'm more in the mood. I'm like, you're

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3856.918

Tommy's doing great. Amazing stuff. And that same night, we made a five-leg parlay in the Nuggets-Knicks games. You and Tommy? That we hit. Yeah, because he's 21 now. We can both bet on FanDuel. Shout out to FanDuel. And we hit it. Plus 125.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3871.757

Indoctrinated him young. Yeah, let's go. All I can see is you. You are Jimmy Conway. And he's coming up the stairs. It's like, you popped it, Jerry!

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3886.452

the Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting word again nothing I don't have anything for this yeah I mean you could maybe say that the street poets put a little extra Austrian mustard on it yeah Ernie Mangold the palm readers putting a little extra on as well yeah but you kind of need those distinct characters alright time for Sean's flex category what do you have

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3942.152

I had that in Picking Nets. He never gets the address. Never gets the address. Never gets the bartender's info. Nothing. The guy's just like, yeah. And then he's like happily watching them leave.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3953.941

Probably like. He probably gave him the cheapest.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3957.945

That's a good question. Had to have been a twist off. Otherwise, it didn't work.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3962.623

I mean gotta be less than $10 bottle she's stealing stemware yeah that's true she's putting glasses in her bag I love this scene it's also honestly like still we're in the AIDS era like I'm not psyched about grabbing glasses from the table it's a real hot take we didn't know any better in 1994 you weren't like oh cool let me drink this random person's glass yeah Europe you know it's all different yeah that's true

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3984.963

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. I actually have one.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4003.53

Yeah, I had this and probably unanswerable questions. Did Jesse's 365 24 hour day create Instagram reels and TikTok? So we're aligned. It did feel like he was on something there.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4031.697

It's a great take. This isn't even really a hot take. Maybe it is. I don't feel like we have enough random movie crossovers. I guess this is a hot take.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4043.877

And I was thinking, if they're walking around Vienna and they just run into Grover from kicking and screaming for five seconds, because it didn't work out for him in Prague, and then he went to Vienna, and it was just never acknowledged or explained, but he was dressed like Grover, that would have been one of the great movie moments of my life. Why don't we have more movie crossovers with just...

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

405.345

You can find your people wherever. You really couldn't in the early 90s. So if you met somebody like this in one day, it was like the most important thing that ever could have happened to you.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4065.573

I love an extended universe. I just like when things get weird. Yeah. We have the multiverse in these dumb comic book movies, but not in just indie movies. The indie movie multiverse would have been really fun. I like that.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4083.184

They could have run into the redhead from Singles who was just on a trip. Whatever her name was, Sheila Kelly.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4090.049

Yeah. She's been on a trip with some old dentist and she's just in the movie for 90 seconds.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4124.321

i think i've talked about it when uh coolidge from the white shadow ended up on saint elsewhere as the janitor yes yes and then salami from the white shadow was playing a character on the show and he saw him and he's like salami and the guy's like i don't know who you're talking about man were they on the same network the two shows yeah okay i think no actually different networks but same production company okay okay yeah uh you don't have a hottest take right

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4167.928

Casting what ifs. Apparently, Aniston and Paltrow both... both tried out for the Delpy role.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4179.409

This is true. It came down to two women and two men in the end. The two that got the role. Michael Vartan was the other option for Ethan Hawke's part. And Sadie Frost? Never really 100% hit, but I was like that.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4218.296

Best that guy award, nothing, because this is a movie set in Vienna with weird people you've never seen. Dion Waiter's award, though. We had the two guys who invite them to their play, Bring Me the Holes of Wilmington's Cow. We had the fortune teller, we had the poet, and we had the benevolent bartender. I'm going poet.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4294.864

So it would be, they'd be waiting to get on a train going from Boston to New York, but the Amtrak was shut down. Yeah. And it was out for six hours. So they had to walk around Boston. They go to Back Bay, they go to Beacon Hill.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

43.103

The Rewatchables, brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find the big picture with Sean Fennessey. Yes. Breaking down the most boring Oscar season in years. What do you mean? Deadly boring. It's wide open.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4314.573

Who's sensitive about her accent. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4318.663

yeah so they end up in North End for dinner yeah that would be a pretty good movie they could go to the Newberry Comics they could go to the Middle East but then she ends up getting in an argument with somebody at one of the bars they go to and he gets punched out some former college football player Murph's just wailing on him outside a bar my choice for the flex category is one from the mailbag a new award

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4350.432

Okay, motherfucker. When the exact moment when the movie goes up a notch, which is the listening booth. Good test drive in the new category. You're good!

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4374.114

It's just on every streaming platform now and I watch it all the time.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4387.365

I'm in. I've hit the point with Heat where now I'm analyzing the most meaningless scenes in the movie. Like when they go for the fake Van Zant drop off.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4396.429

You're watching Heat on all 22. I am. I really am.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4444.908

You know, if we could say we played a small part, then that's all you could do.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4457.611

One thing I was thinking was, I think I could do an entire heat nitpick pod and not do any of the other categories. I could do that. Because I've seen it too many times now. I can nitpick literally every scene in the movie. The director's commentary, I could just nitpick. And by the way, this is one of my five favorite movies. But I've just seen it too many times.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4487.956

I thought you were going to say do our version of Michael Mann's Before Sunrise because of how awkward his meeting dialogue is. A book about medals?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4505.369

Michael Mann trying to write the would you like to go to the cafe car with me part would have been amazing.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4521.056

Half-assed research. Some good stuff. So, oh yeah, you mentioned those books. She's reading, I'm going to mangle the names. Is it Georges Bastille? Georges Bastille? Bastille? I don't know. I'm not an expert. Ethan Hawke is reading All I Need is Love by Klaus Kinski.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4546.473

So this is sad, and I never knew this until I did the research, even though this is a movie I've seen many times. The movie was inspired by a lady named Amy Learhaupt. Linklater met her in a toy shop in Philadelphia in 1989, and they walked around the city together conversing deep into the night, and then she died of a motorcycle accident before sunrise.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4567.237

But apparently one of the reasons he made the movie was he was hoping she would see it and hunt him down because this was the 90s, and once you lost connection with somebody, that was it. You couldn't find him. But he didn't know she died for a while after that. I think it was 2010 when he found out. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

458.49

Both of them, when they meet each other, they're both reading a book. That's kind of what you did. If you're on a train, what else are you going to do? Suddenly you'd be like, oh, I'm going to go on Instagram. you were kind of stuck with your thoughts, some book or a magazine you had, or some conversation with somebody, like in a train like that. It's like, maybe I'll sit next to somebody.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4601.098

So the cemetery they visit, it's called the Cemetery of the Nameless and Simmering. The people buried have found anonymity and death. Apparently a famous place. First script for Before Sunrise, do you know where it was set? This kind of blew my mind because this is one of the most boring places I've been.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4622.945

San Antonio. Yeah. Riverwalk, baby. It took place in San Antonio and the guy was a rabid film fanatic who talked all the time about film. Better or worse movie? 95 Spurs won the... Spurs were... Yeah, that's when Rodman kind of submarine the Spurs in 95 and he took his shoes off during the game. He was torturing David Robinson. Tough one. That could have been a scene. Rodman, what's up with him?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4653.008

Apparently, the last shot of the movie, they had to time it with the train. And they rehearsed it, and it had to be perfect. And if they fucked it up, then they would have had to come back the next day and do it. And they rehearsed it, and it worked. And then Cath Bloom... Got a little resurgence from the movie. Ended up releasing more albums. Got a little bump.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4674.726

You mentioned James Joyce's Ulysses. Where'd you stand on this book, C.R.?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4692.153

Both stories are on June 16th. Both involve a journey taking place around a single city. Jesse says his real name is James, Joyce's first name. Jesse spends a lot of time wandering around the cities of Europe instead of going back home.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4710.982

They visit a graveyard. June 16th was the day James Joyce met his life partner, Nora Barnacle. Great name. Yeah. Link later. Joyce, he's an artist. Apex Mountain, Ethan Hawke.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4742.946

I think it's Training Day, but I could be talked into this movie. But the only thing is this movie didn't do that well.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4750.368

It was a slow burn. It just had a big cable run, and I think a lot of people loved it, but it took a couple years to really hit. What are you thinking?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

477.383

I remember flying places in the 90s, and you'd sit next to somebody, talk to them for three hours, and be like, all right, I'll see you later. And that was it. You never thought about them again. Because it was like, oh, that killed three hours. Now you would just kill the three hours on your own. I don't know if it's better or worse. Guy next to you is reading Inside Sports. Yeah, right.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4810.014

That's probably the answer. Joey Delpy, I would say Before Sunset. Your Rail Trains? Sure. Austrian palm readers? Absolutely. Definitely, yeah. Littering? Great littering in this movie. They just leave the wine glasses in the bottle just in the park. That's true. That's a good point. Vienna? Probably the Billy Joel song.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4862.426

Neil and Edie. Starting out at a diner, talking about a book about metals, and then they end up in some awesome place of the view.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4911.336

It's a great point. If you saw this movie in 95 and you weren't really getting along with whoever you were dating, you would leave the movie side-eyeing them and be like, I don't feel this way about you.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4927.184

That's like my gotta-see about a girl story. Yeah, from Goodwill. Apex Mountain for Gen X. I think it's a year earlier. I think 94 was the peak. 95, we're in the last remnants.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

493.807

What is that? Well, I think... What did they think of the Sun?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4950.817

Okay. We got... Reality Bites that year. I think it's 93 or 94. The music was better in 93, 94.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4987.752

I would go for this. Cath Bloom, definitely. Anonymous Cemeteries, no question. Okay, Cruiser Hanks, let's go. I got Hanks. Oh, really? No. Oh, I think Cruise is clearly the answer. It's gotta be Cruise.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5011.923

sign me up a lot of his parts are like this a lot of his movies are like this honestly he's doing there's multiple scenes in cocktail like this yes a lot of his 80s movies I'm pretty surprised that I'm on an island I'm going this far this is the movie Cruz should have made he's missing this from his IMDB young man IMDB 10 year stretch I wish he made a movie like this yeah I mean I guess the closest he gets is Jerry Maguire right

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5038.081

But that's like a huge movie. It's like, let's spend 24 hours with Cruise trying to win a girl over. He never did it. He and Meryl tried to do it once with that Meryl Streep movie, and it was a disaster. Frankie and Johnny? Is that the one? No, that was Pacino. Oh, yeah, Pacino. It was called Falling in Love, I think.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5056.26

No, De Niro did a movie called Falling in Love.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5060.704

That was a different one. Falling in Love? I haven't seen that. It was De Niro and Meryl Streep and it was positioned as these two huge actors are finally together and it just was like they had no chemistry and that's why you didn't even remember it. Stanley and Iris was De Niro and Jane Fonda. Yeah. So we trumped CR, Cruz wins, two to one.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5093.081

What do you mean? I love Cruz the most. What? What are you talking about? I fucking have defended cocktail multiple times in my life. Someone just had a criteria orgasm. I love Cruz.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5105.688

But I think if you're going to say 1984 range Tom Hanks in this movie, I think he would have been really good. I just personally, I think Cruz would have been hilarious in Vienna. Just like they would have had to work in some scene where he did something athletic. Like he played hacky sack with somebody. I think

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5155.589

No, he would have needed a bad hairdo to try to make it seem less realistic. Yeah. And he could pull someone off.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5195.303

So is the question who made more sense or which version? Maybe this category is which movie would you rather have wanted to see, Scorsese or Spielberg? Because I think I'd rather see Scorsese's Before Sunrise over Spielberg's. I know what I'm going to get with Spielberg's. I know that they'd be smoking in that version. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5239.586

This category works. Another new one. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? The poet.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5268.544

Yeah, that would have been good too. The Ed Norton Reverse Dunk Award for Did This Movie Need a Random Sports Scene.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5283.794

Can we talk about a possible hacky sack scene where they're in a park? This is the height of Hacky Sack. Where Jesse gets distracted by the sack. Jesse's like, I used to be really good at this. And then he does some Hacky Sack.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5296.172

I never liked it and I never liked anyone who did it.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5345.71

He's on a train reading Klaus Kinski's memoir. Pick a nitz. Jesse wearing a leather jacket in Vienna in mid-June.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5407.332

He never gets the bartender's address, which we covered. I have one more big nitpick, but do you guys have any?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5433.157

I get the point. Ethan Hawke not being able to play pinball.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5444.123

So the Playboy Playmate of the Month in July of 78 wasn't Crystal. It was Karen Morton, who has the distinction of being the playmate with the smallest breasts ever out of the playmate. She was the 32B. I did a deep dive on her. I'll bet you did. She played the best little virgin in the comedy feature History of the World Part 1.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5464.324

She played Jenny in the music video for 8-6-7-5-3-0-9, Jenny by Tommy Two-Tone. Yes. Wow. Her legacy is profound. Holy shit, that's a triple crown right there. This is why this is the best podcast out there, because I just gave you a July 1978 Playmate deep dive.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5485.793

Yeah, okay. I think they screwed it up because they didn't know the internet was coming or podcasts, and that we would be deciphering who actually was the Playmate. Mm-hmm. Right now, you've got many men at home furiously Googling this person's name. Karen Morton. Sequel, prequel, prestige to be all black cast are untouchable. Two sequels, so we know how that turned out. All right. Tweet category.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5507.128

Buckle up. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley and the Firm?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5574.232

I asked him, there's a Tony Romo case too, for the Ferris wheel.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

561.058

With some guy she met for 20 minutes.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5636.175

Okay, that's all I got. Good job, man. Thanks.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5671.491

Just one Oscar, who gets it? Probably Linklater, right?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5690.542

Yeah. Probably an answerable question. See, I already covered Jesse's 24-hour idea. And then for this movie only, the question was, did they have sex? We find out the answer in a later movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5735.68

Did you ever try to... We're sophomores at Denison. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5761.339

This isn't a nitpick, and it might be an unanswerable, but it's something. It's the one thing I felt like wasn't authentic about his character, but it's based on what happens in the next movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5772.625

Where he writes a book, which tells me that if he wrote a whole book nine years later, then he would have been writing at this age, right? You're writing short stories, you're writing all this stuff. And it feels like with, cause he's just throwing, he's running all the plays he can run. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5791.682

He does. You can tell. But I'm saying at some point, I think he shows her something he wrote. I think you play that move at some point during the night. Can I show you? Do you want to read this one thing I wrote? That's why he's mad at the poet.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5818.895

I just think he has writing, and I think... I don't know. I just think he would have tried it.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5840.271

I did like them, but I didn't like them. I thought they were fun to argue with in college.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5871.536

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson Connecting with someone for 24 hours is better than never connecting with anyone?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5883.883

Something about connection. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5892.694

Oh, the poem that the guy wrote. That's a good one. That's nice. I had the actual Cath Bloom album that he had. That's good too.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

59.4

I won't be talking about one of these movies 10 years from now.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

590.617

But this is why Ethan Hawke was the Gen X hero because he played this character and he played Troy. And Troy was bait. What did Troy say? All I need is a cup of coffee, a pack of cigarettes, and five bucks. Laney? Laney is all I need. And that was what all that character needed, right? This guy, he's like, yeah, I'm just going to ride the train for an extra two weeks.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5915.131

The wine bottle is an interesting one. The poem, I think, is the right answer. Best double feature choice before Sunset. And then probably the toughest of all of these. Who won the movie? I think it's Linklater.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5939.887

I had Hawk, but I don't know if I'm right. Because I think he needs this for his kind of big picture thing. And Linklater was doing great anyway. But I also think it might be... It probably is Linklater.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5954.017

Linklater really needs this. Because then it leads to the trilogy.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6028.093

Yeah. We didn't get to the Big Kahuna Burger Award. We cut that one out, but it would have been the wine. I also just have drinking coffee at night. The Dan Campbell scale for holy shit, are they really going for this right now? I don't know if this movie had this one. We also, I was, I can't wait to do the Lena Dunham running the spawn ranch award for most jarring casting decision.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6048.901

That's going to be great. We didn't have the Rosillo blind thing. Um, the devil wears Prada word for, is this movie actually perfect for what it tried to do? I think we could have given that one out. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6081.154

Nobody goes to the bathroom in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6083.916

There's some semi-subtle cutting. I'm going to drop the kids off at the pool.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6108.174

We don't get producer Craig's take this episode because he went to SNL this weekend and was somehow on camera in the monologue. So if you want to watch Timothee Chalamet's monologue when he goes into the There's producer Craig. He's like the new Zelig. Just Zelig?

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‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

611.817

I'm just going to walk around Vienna tonight. Maybe I'll sleep on the thing. But that's kind of what a lot of people were like back then.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6131.664

It's an interesting one because this would have been the perfect Chalamet movie. If we were recasting this now, Chalamet is clearly the guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6143.795

He's too big. Chalamet and Saoirse Ronan in Boston.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6151.703

She's a nice Irish girl in Boston. Before sunrise. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6160.241

That's it for the pod. We are back on the regular schedule. Please keep sending us emails on the rewatchables33 at gmail.com. Thanks to Jack and Kyle for producing. You can watch this on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel where you can see all stuff from the big picture as well. And we'll be doing some bonus stuff too. Great. Tell me when you want me to do my own personal Oscar awards for you.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

618.42

No, sports was too important to me. I was always a mixture. But if I was him, I would have been like, I gotta get back. Sports are too important, like you need to get back. That's like round one NBA's coming up.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

6198.204

Oh, those movies. Just any movie that came out last year. Longlegs shouldn't have been anything. Other than it was a really good movie. Thanks, guys.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

63.624

I am excited for Chalamet. Yeah. I'm excited for Demi Moore. Yeah, I'm excited for the Oscars. Come on. He's back.

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‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

638.185

Big picture though with this movie. And it's really... One other thing I love about this movie, and by the way, we're just going to talk about this movie. Yeah. Because we want this movie to stand on its own. Obviously, there were some sequels. But one thing with this movie, as you age with it, but your feelings on love have aged too.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

657.988

And if you see this when you're in your teens, you don't even know what love is yet. If you see this in your 20s, that's when you're the most hardcore into... I kind of know who I am and I'm ready to be in love. So if you see this at the perfect time, this movie would be like your movie. And then as you get older, you're like, oh, those two, they're not going to last.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

674.162

Like you said, you start becoming more cynical, right? So it's, and they, the only time I'll bring up the sequel, he mentions in the beginning about the difference between a romantic and a cynic. That's how you see this movie. Are you a romantic or a cynic? So when you saw this, were you a romantic or a cynic?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

730.651

It's like, hey, souls, what's going on there?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

82.487

Did you do it yet? Did you fire it up? I need after football season. Okay. Let me get through football season. Especially when the football games last for four hours.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

820.632

You made a key point there, though, about sentimental working or not working in a movie. We've seen people... Cameron Crowe is a great example. Almost famous. All the sentimentality works in that movie. And then he makes Elizabethtown, and it's a lot of the same beats, and none of it works. It's really hard to pull off somebody's falling in love with somebody else.

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‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

840.249

You see it in a lot of movies, and it takes place over the course of weeks, months, however they do it. I don't remember another movie where it's like, this is about the immediate experience of falling for somebody over the course of a night, basically.

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‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

896.813

So at the end, if you think they're seeing each other in six months when the movie ends, not knowing what happens in the sequels, if you leave that movie and you go, they're going to see each other in six months, I would say you're a romantic. And if you leave the movie going, nah, one of them's going to fuck this up, I would say you're a cynic.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

913.568

And it's weird how that one decision at the end probably says more about the viewer than it does about the movie.

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‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

923.297

Yeah, I was like, I really hoped... I was probably the most idealistic when I saw this movie. I was like, I hope they're going to make it.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

941.022

You would not have liked The Fortune Teller.

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‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

95.273

right? Yeah. Okay. Are you a playing team or no?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

969.629

What was your takeaway? Would they see each other in six months?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunrise’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

997.53

So we did Kicking and Screaming a while ago. A little bit similar... We don't know whether Grover's going to go to Prague to chase his old girlfriend down and they kind of leave it ambiguous. This was a very 90s thing. It's like, we're going to bring these characters in your life, you're going to fall for them, and then you will never know what happens. We'll see, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

0.069

The Rewatchables is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know, you're totally obsessed? Like I'm talking about ordering a book on 70s film lighting. Is that you, CR? It's me. How many lighting books do you have? I'm the guy leaving all those reviews saying five stars. Or buying the soundtrack on vinyl? Well, you're kind of obsessed.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1022.358

And then the last 40 minutes are just, like, lights out. Oh, yeah. As soon as he's, like, playing football with the servants, it's like, this is the best movie I've ever seen.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1078.001

Whether it's just your spirit and whatever is in your eyes.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1103.683

This is a huge influence on Dave. Wait, so you're telling me...

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1134.773

who had 1965 in all-time apex mountain where she won best actress for darling but also was in dr zhivago which was one of the 10 biggest movies of the of the 20th century and then had a really good career and really picked her spots and was in was not one of those oh i'm gonna do my version of sleeping with the enemy she's like just making good movies and

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1157.617

And ends up in Don't Look Now, which I think is right around when she broke up with Beatty because there was this whole thing about she might have had sex with Donald Sutherland or maybe she didn't. It was a whole, and I think it drove Warren Beatty crazy. Does Shampoo is in Nashville. And then this was kind of her last like really big movie.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1175.571

Like she turned down some big parts and Reds and she was supposed to play your girl Charlene Rampling's part in The Verdict. Oh yeah. Yeah. She turned that down? Turned that down. Just kind of took a step back. But, I don't know. Van, where is she in the Hall of Fame for you? Oh, she's not up there.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1224.11

Rain Man Lady? Can I say something about Warren Baby? Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1289.461

Just saying. There's something. I would say if he's with, what, 20,000 women, 10,000 women, whatever. It doesn't matter if you. There's a couple, probably a couple that go sideways.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1306.344

Growing up, I knew nothing. And even I knew like Warren Beatty, a lot of ladies in that dude's life. Like it was just part of the package with him in a way that I don't. Nobody would have that now. That wouldn't be a selling point as a positive for an actor. Look at all the ladies this guy gets. Nobody would care.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1339.016

But think about how many movies and TV shows were filmed in that area back then. And it just seems like the greatest place in the earth. There's no cars. Just a beach. Everyone could live on the beach. Didn't matter.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1389.647

He's mad about Tom Jarrett. He's just telling random people how mad he is about Tom Jarrett.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1399.522

Well, this was the second version of this movie. The first was... Or the second film adaptation. The play was called Heaven Can Wait. They made a movie called Here Comes Mr. Jordan in 1941. And then they bought the rights. And casting what if, that's better than a casting what if. This was supposed to be a Muhammad Ali movie. With Muhammad Ali as Lee?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1421.46

Yeah. The original idea was it was a boxing. Yeah. And a boxer. And then he comes back and he gets to fight in the big fight. And... Ali was like, no thanks.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1438.833

It had a lot of incarnations until it got to football.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1483.202

Yeah. um some really good late 70s sports stuff in this movie it's including deacon jones the rams and steelers in the heyday of like those 70s uniforms fucking coliseum la coliseum looks amazing kurt gowdy doing super bowl play-by-play dick emberg's in here there's a brian gumbel early brian gumbel and the tv a brian chickern yeah just it feels like in that rocky balboa late 70s kind of universe

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1530.552

Nine Oscar nominations for this movie. This movie was a big hit.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1549.082

Like it was like Angels in the Outfield or something.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1556.327

He was the second person after Orson Welles To be nominated for producing, directing, writing, and acting for the same film. He wrote it with Buck Henry. I feel like there are a few people from there. Jack Worden got nominated. Elaine May has the co-writing credit, right? Oh, that's what it was. He directed with Buck Henry and then he co-wrote it with Elaine May. But I think Buck Henry was right.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1576.797

Jack Worden and Diane Cannon both got nominations. That's right. That's right, Diane Cannon. We got to talk Jack again, even though we always end up talking about Jack Worden for five minutes whenever we do a Jack Worden. This is the Jack Worden wheelhouse era. This from mid-70s all the way through the verdict where it's just like, if he's in the movie, it's just a win.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1595.156

It's like Alex Caruso right now. It's like my team's better because I have Alex Caruso. I'm just better with Jack Warden.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1612.489

It's he's the trainer, but somehow has like all this time to train a billionaire. He's not there for the Superbowl. Yeah. There's a, there's nine related. I have a bunch of, I have a Mac, a bunch of Mac stuff. Mr. Superbowl. Yeah. He's got to get down this murder investigation.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1660.152

Good Oscars. Obviously, he had no chance that year because it was a loaded thing to actually win. But getting nominated was great from a release standpoint. So it was a $9.5 million budget plus whatever bait he got. He had points. He made almost $100 million. Top five that year. Grease. Superman. Animal House. Every Which Way But Loose and Heaven Can Wait. Coming in sixth, Hooper.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

168.727

I like his theory on, he's another one of those guys who put a lot of thought into stardom. Yeah. And sometimes you just have to let the camera chew you up and just be handsome. Yeah. And talk in a low voice and just stare at a woman and just keep staring and they stare back and then you stare some more and you just seem like a movie star. Yeah. Very few people can do this.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1684.564

Number seven, Jaws 2. Revenge of the Pink Panther, The Deer Hunter, and Halloween. Diane Cannon's in Revenge of the Pink Panther, isn't she? She sure is. And then Foul Play was 11th.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1722.754

I should have figured Stop Fantasy was going to be against it.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1731.24

I would get mad if we did that before Pale Rider. As a child? I thought that movie was a grand slam. It's like, he's just going to drive around the orangutan and get fist fights.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1750.735

Roger Ebert, for Heaven Can Wait, three stars. Yep. He said, it's the kind of upbeat screwball comedy Hollywood used to do smoothly and well. takes the curse off the pot's essential sweetness by getting in some nice mean digs at greed, corporate politics, adultery, professional football, and jocks in particular. Interestingly enough, Pauline Kael. Mm.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1774.551

who was Warren Beatty's number one fan for going back to Bonnie and Clyde and was really upset with this movie. She disliked it. She said it was image-conscious celebrity movie-making. Said Warren Beatty had turned into a baby-kissing politician and really went after him.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1793.096

And it became this really kind of famous Hollywood story, which I still don't know what Tarantino's movie critic script was about. Yeah. But my guess, so what happens is Warren Beatty, instead of like feuding with her, ends up trying to rebuild the relationship with her, hires her, flies her to Hollywood and she becomes like a creative executive. Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

18.625

Whatever it is, Prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com slash Prime. Follow your obsession wherever it goes. We're here to talk about... Heaven Can Wait. It is the last episode of Big 70s Month. Van Lathan is here. Pew. Pew. There you go, Bill.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1814.783

But then he buries her and she's basically buried doing nothing for a year, but she sold out working in Hollywood, but then didn't actually get to be involved in movies. And he basically like, that was his way to get back at her.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1836.635

I think partly, but he's been working on that since like 1970. He was obsessed with John Reed for some reason. But yeah, I think after reading that, I think he's like, I'll show you. And then he dove hard into Reds. But yeah, her career was kind of never the same after the Beatty thing. She came back and her stuff in the 80s that we've talked about, it just had a little tinge of... Cynicism.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

186.832

I think Brad Pitt can do this now. I think that was a big part of it.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1862.524

It's just kind of like being behind the times a little bit. Anyway. All right. We're going to take a break and then we'll do the categories. All right, most rewatchable scene. I love the first 15 minutes of this movie.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1874.61

So I don't even want to pull it out, but if I had to narrow it down, I'd go with the birthday celebration when Max comes over and just everything that's going on there. They just seem like they're buddies. Yeah, it's awesome.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

190.233

Once upon a time in Hollywood, he's basically doing that with Cliff, but very few people. I mean, who can do it now who's under 40?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1922.767

You know, they really pour on the football when he's Joe Pendleton.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1929.141

They probably could have gone away with two passes and some practice, but it's like, no, let's show some things. I really think Beatty was like, I got to show everybody. I can fucking sling it. He's got his fucking arm angle. He's like, let me show everybody a few different things I can do. He played in high school and apparently got all these scholarship offers.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1976.118

Good cadence. He has a couple short touch passes. He wasn't just throwing deep. Craig, had you seen this movie before? No. What did you think of Warren Beatty just as a quarterback?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2008.791

He was a fullback. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he was more like a Lamar Jackson. He was running QB that flying around making plays. Yeah, this is more of a system Brock Purdy slash Baker Mayfield. 70% completion rate.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2057.515

Well, they film the Super Bowl scene. They have 14 minutes at halftime of a preseason game. So he goes out there and all the plays, they're in front of the full crowd.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2100.217

There's one part in that 14 minutes, like one of the plays where he's just, he's calling plays and he's looking both ways and it almost seems like he's changing the play and he's like, red, red, red, red, red, red. And like, he just seems like a quarterback. It's really impressive. It's up there with anybody.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2129.503

The birthday celebration. I think they do a good job with the car accident. Yeah. Of showing the tunnel and the cars are fucking around and he's on his bike and then all of a sudden... They do... In this movie, they do very dark stuff in a tonally light way. Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2152.045

It's all very sweet. The thing that falls on the bed, what is that?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2175.345

I like the montage of bodies to jump into. I could have gone with a couple more. They do a race car driver and they have the balance magician guy. I could have done three more. I love all the fake rules. Yeah, I could have just kept going. Could have had a waiter in Hollywood.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2222.344

When he becomes Farnsworth and Diane Cannon freaks out. When she sees the mouse.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2228.971

Joe and Betty in the limo falling for each other a little bit. Yeah, were they like Tommy's Chili Burger or something? A lot of staring back and forth. A lot of long, long looks. I like the history and the baggage of them too. All right. These last four, I love all of these. Joe brings Max to the mansion, tells him the secret. I think the best scene of the movie.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2272.213

And Jack won't believe it. He fixes his neck. I'm calling him Jack. Until he does the, that thing that happened in Pittsburgh. I always like when those, and there's been a few movies like this where I have to convince CR that I'm CR, but I don't look like me. And then I'm like, no, no. Remember that time we did Heat in my pool house in 2019? You're like, Bill! I was Top Gun Maverick.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2323.53

I'd be like, I'm on that thread. It's you. I would just talk about the thread.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2328.877

I'd mention two things from the thread.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2346.516

I took CR and Sean to Cabots. It was great. Craig didn't want to come. He was with his in-laws. Oh, Craig.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2379.781

We need more core memories. So your cutoff line is, you're somebody I know and that I've interacted with and done some stuff with versus core memory friend.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2440.96

Yeah. Sierra and I have seen a few movies together. I can't go to any of those. Did we see The Grey together?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2454.343

Being the only two people in the theater that like Black Hat. Anyway, that goes. Joe and Max, he convinces him. It's Joe. Yeah. We go right to the football warm-up montage with the servants, which I honestly could have gone eight more minutes with. Grodin runs into the bush. The guy's trying to catch the passes. And then there's a couple shots of Warden and Beatty just kind of flinging it. Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2479.174

Warden looks pretty good. I feel like Warden might have had some football background.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

249.554

And if you're bad in it, it doesn't. It's the Burt Reynolds. And Burt Reynolds is probably somebody else who could have tried to play this role. I don't know if he pulls off the rich part of it the same way, the Leo Pendleton role. He pulls off all the football stuff.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. Come on. You got that. And then he apparently overpaid? Sounds great.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I want to live in a world where a guy could buy the Rams and make himself the quarterback and it wouldn't cause an absolute panic on social media. I have a list later on.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2574.67

No, see, you have that wrong. Okay. You want to put him on the field goal block team in the middle because he's 6'9". 6'9". He just jumps for the field goal. Right. He just comes in for special plays. It actually would make sense.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2591.734

Because he wants to play. He wants to play. Last one. Why'd you have to bring up the Celtics?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2618.703

Well, there was a Celtics minority owner, Jim Pallotta, who was like the number three guy when Wicks Group bought the team. Didn't he own Roma for a while? He sold his stake to buy Roma. Yeah. But he played all the time. And the joke was always, if he got the team from wick, he would do the, he would do the baby and just all of a sudden he'd be on the team.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

262.383

But I think what was so interesting about Warren Beatty is that he could be Leo Pendleton, and it's believable that he's also Tom Jarrett. Joe Pendleton and Leo Farnsworth. I'm getting my Joe and Leos. Be Joe Pendleton, Leo Farnsworth, and then just step into the Super Bowl quarterback at the end. And I believe all three things. I also would have believed him as a German race car driver.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But I think they have a lot of rules against this.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because, because Jordan, yeah. Jordan LeBron, if he got a team, could he make himself, could he put himself on it? Like, no, they have rules that you can't, you can't call your own.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2664.231

Newsflash. When Koozie was coaching the Cincinnati Royals a million years ago in like the 1970 and they had some injuries and he just made himself a player coach for the last seven games of the year. And they were like, okay, Bob Cousy's got me to play. And that was it. It just was the way it happened. Yeah. I'm not against that. Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2683.326

I mean, that would be fun if NBA coaches were just like, yeah, we're a little short today. I'm suiting up. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2690.612

Missoula could do it, actually. I'm sure he could.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2695.696

I think he could be the 14th man on a team, like, for break case and emergency.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2702.728

Too old? Probably too old. Reddick could definitely do it. Yeah, but Reddick would actually put himself in. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He'd be like, we need spacing.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2720.632

Well, the montage of, first of all, one of the best backyards. I mean, just enough room where you could really have a great touch football game. You were talking about the house. Slight betrayal because it's in Northern California. Well, yeah. Interesting. And then fake Leo's first Rams practice when Beatty comes in. I love that. Lights it up. Mr. Farnsworth, you play any college football?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2746.099

Well, very, very nice. Very, very impressive. I'm Tony Abbott, Mr. Farnsworth's personal private executive secretary. Very nice. Very, very nice. Don't let any of Mr. Farnsworth's racial statements offend you, for God's sakes. Let's talk.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2779.083

Did Grodin ever get his moment where we all appreciated him? Midnight Run. Okay. Midnight Run was his... That was his Oscar.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2787.409

But yeah, because he's in Foul Play too, which is, I think it's same year. Chevy Chase, yeah. He's in Seems Like Old Times. Not Foul Play, Seems Like Old Times. That's 1980. Yeah. He's amazing in Seems Like Old Times. Amazing in Seems Like Old Times. I love that movie. Yeah. Have you done that one yet? No, I don't know if... I don't know. I'd have to watch it again because as a kid, I loved it.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2835.086

Some good dogs in that movie. Good dog movie. Great. Good slapstick. It's very Three's Company era where misunderstandings... Just had a quick vision of the future of us doing the Brandy Booth month. Great dog movies. Chip and Chase month. That Rams practice is really fun. So, Joe says goodbye to Betty and then gets shot. It's like, somebody's going to come back someday.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

284.89

I could have spent five more minutes with that. Maybe he could have driven the car. He didn't like the guy because he didn't speak English. He was in his 70s. He didn't really like Germans that much.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2860.453

Maybe they're even the quarterback. Which is just insane. Yeah. And then he gets shot and falls in the well. And then the last one, he wins the Super Bowl, but then... The movie gets really sad. Yeah. Do you cry?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2947.893

It said in the Biscuit book about Beatty that that scene where he kind of doesn't recognize him and it's a little cold. that for people in Beatty's life, that's kind of what he was like, where you were, you'd be his best friend and then the light would shine on you. And then as soon as he kind of got what he got from you, he'd move on to the next thing.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2965.182

And then all of a sudden you were like Jack Ward. And then that scene, like, oh man, I guess we're not friends anymore. And then the bittersweet scene with Christie. So, yeah, I think that's my most rewatchable scene. I think the last 10 minutes of this movie are most rewatchable for me. I really liked the Christie. I love when, when it goes dark. And he's like, no, no, whatever he says.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2986.59

It's okay. Yeah, they're just closing the place down. Don't worry, it's fine.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2993.752

And just like how she plays that, it's really good. I'm totally in, I believe it.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's got very, very, very good comic timing, which Shampoo also had, that I don't feel like he used in enough movies.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3092.133

Yeah, there just weren't a lot of famous rich athletes back then. I remember inside sports, it's like 1980 or 81, Nolan Ryan became like the first million dollar baseball player. And it was like him on the cover. It's like, athletes are making a million dollars. This sport's going crazy. This is like three years before that.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3160.105

The hairdos for the females in this movie, very distinct. That kind of perm-y. Yeah. Big body era. It was the little Farrah Fawcett residue. Feathered. Yeah. That's on canon. The houses, this mansion that's supposedly the most decadent, great mansion.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3179.095

Yeah. I have some stuff on it later. The wallpaper and some of the stuff is really gaudy. The house would be totally different now. Young Dick Emberg? Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3190.261

very 1977 concussion protocol I'm pretty sure Tom Jarrett's not just running back on the field after he's been carried off on a stretcher for five minutes and then my favorite let's make it short he was dead we're the independent neurologist he was about to die no content but then the number one for me is the Rams costing 17 million but having a book value of 19 yeah

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3215.242

As a professional NFL team, these teams are worth $7 billion now.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3225.99

I have two special awards. The Sasha Jenkins Award for Actor You Can't Believe Didn't Become a Bigger Star. You could go grow it in here, too, but I thought Diane Cannon was really just, I just liked her. And I don't,

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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she just was kind of in roles like this was her peak but not if you're ready for that Goldie Hawn if you're ready for what's aged the best I am about to open a Diane Cannon six pack let's do it the Amanda Dobbins award for best piece of real estate which also goes to the Den of Thieves Benny Honner where for scene stealing location Leo Farnsworth's house although you could make the argument that Joe's place in Topanga probably gave the most value yeah it was called the Filoli Mansion it's a historical museum now

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3268.946

Craig, too bad you got married because you could have gotten married there for prices starting at $75,000. Oh, nice. It's located in Woodside, California. Too bad you got married.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3280.27

You missed out on two things so far. It's between San Francisco and San Jose. It is also seen in the opening credits of Dynasty. Oh, Carrington's. And it's the home of a movie we've already done in the rewatchables. Is it the Basic Instinct house? No. Michael Douglas' home in the game.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

330.876

I read the book again, which I really liked when it came out. It's Peter Biskin's biography of him in 2010, which is very pre-2. There's a lot of sex stuff in there that I now think would be written differently. Pre-2. Pre-2. I didn't know that was a phrase. Yeah. I just made it up. Did you really? Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3308.846

But never could have been the quarterback, right? That's the difference. I don't feel like he could have pulled it off.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3326.352

Yeah. Warren Beatty never shows the basic instinct shot of his butt with the balls hanging out between his butt cheeks. He's never doing that.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3341.765

It's just an iconic... That one scene in Dick Tracy. We can kind of see your balls in this shot. We might have to do this again. Leave it in. It's what I wanted. What's aged the best? I'll start us off. According to the movie, Joe Penison was supposed to live until 10, 17 a.m. on March 20th, 2025. We just passed it. We just passed it. He still would have been alive. No, he'd be dead. He'd be dead.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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No, and this year, and he made it to 2025, he would have been like, 85-year-old, probably CTE and dementia from playing football for nine years.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3409.069

You left out Diane Cannon as her... adultery boyfriend what is Charles Gordon her paramour whatever word you want to use yeah guns down her ex-husband and she's just kind of hanging out doing her hair dude just completely unfazed the reality of this relationship inside the movie is completely fucking bonkers

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3451.353

Yeah. Remember that movie? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3454.076

Another one's aged the best. Vincent Gardini as a police sergeant. We were two away from Gardini a month instead of big-ass 70s month.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3470.66

The score of this movie I had, I think, is just fantastic. Yeah, Dave Grusin. The music, this is almost like Shawshank, where it's just fun to hang out with the music. And when it gets the sad version, then the happy, peppy version, and it gets sad again. Hey, Van, how about for what saves the best, an overtime Super Bowl? Which didn't happen until Pat's Falcons.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Shout out to everybody in Atlanta. Seemed like a crazy idea at the time. Super Bowl to go into overtime.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3503.567

Yeah. So Steelers ran Super Bowl. Filmed at a Chargers-Rams preseason game September 1st, 1977. And a year and a half after the movie came out, January 1980, Rams, Steelers, Super Bowl in Los Angeles. Wow. That's fucking weird. Yeah. Not in the Coliseum in the Rose Bowl, but do you have any other what's at your best?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3542.442

Do you know why that is? Because quarterbacks were less essential back then because they used to get the absolute fucking shit kicked out of them. And they threw a ton of interceptions. And there were really only a few good ones. You go back and look at the stats from 1978. Guys will have like 26 picks in a season. Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3557.727

They're basically like you just had to not get killed when you were the quarterback. Oh, we get to what's the worst. I'm going to talk about his fucking stat line.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I had for what it's aged the best. Leo Farnsworth being a fucking asshole rich guy because those guys are back.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

369.591

But if you just made it up, I gotta give it up. That could be a category.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Leo Farnsworth. Interesting choice for a name. Do you think that that is the Tess Rockwell award winner? Not really. I don't. Okay. I think it's a weird rich guy name. Farnsworth? Leo Farnsworth? I would have gone with like Chadwick Farnsworth. I don't know. It doesn't sound like rich and douchey enough to me. I don't know. I guess you guys didn't fixate on it.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The Big Kahuna Burger Award for Best Use of Food and Drink is obviously the liver and waist shake. What did you have for Great Shot Gordo?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, all these stories in there. It's like, yeah, six times a day and then he'd get tired of somebody. It's just stuff like you wouldn't write about it as... Oh, this is one of the things about mid Warren Beatty. So interesting.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3751.551

um given movies it's shaped everything i think about everything i think heaven is like heaven can wait and i think hell is like ghost oh like with the when the shadows come up and pull you down i think i think that's probably what it's so when your car dies while going 75 miles per hour on the 10 and you go fuck go quickly you're gonna go to like an airplane i'm hoping to see the clouds and not see those shadows coming up out of the sewers

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3777.701

They're here for you. Tough one. Poor Willie Lopez.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3802.205

I start rattling off, like, Andor stuff.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3807.467

Yeah, if I knew all this Marvel version.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3819.15

Chesswap, Roboclander's best character name. I have Max Quirkle. I had Joe Pendleton. I thought that was a strong QB name. What'd you have, Van?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

385.659

He had sex with a lot of women and then he wouldn't call them back or he'd get bored of somebody. Um, but apparently by all accounts, just, just got it done. Just a swordsman. Yeah. That's what shampoo is basically about.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3851.45

Let's take a break and then we got to see our flex category.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3885.284

I think this movie is really PG. Yeah. Because even when Warren Beatty and Julie Christie kiss, it's not like they're like...

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3892.119

make it out yeah they're like very what is it actually rated PG oh yeah oh yeah this isn't a rated R I don't think there's a swear word but like you know you thought maybe a PG-13 they're trying to kill the guy the whole time he gets shot with a gun like you know what I mean like I would you know you would have thought they didn't have PG-13 until like 84 85 that's right it didn't even exist but I think that this movie was crying out for a sex scene

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3914.392

Listen, you don't have to sell me. Come on.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3921.438

He's just gotten carried away. Butch's girlfriend award for the weak link of the film. What do you have, Van? I couldn't think of one. I have one. I really couldn't think of one. Two Rams quarterbacks die in the span of time. What are the fucking odds? Wait, that's not a character. That's a nit, right? Yeah, it's a weak link of the movie. Two quarterbacks. One dies in a bike accident.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3946.579

To be fair, Jared doesn't die. He's about to die.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3954.026

If one of those things happened, it would be the biggest thing of the year. What if we're not watching Tua?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3984.474

At some point, there's a quote One of the players goes, looks like we got us a rich quarterback.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3989.819

And I was thinking now, like half the Brock Party makes $53 million a year. What quarterback's not rich? What else do you have for what's in yours?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

399.888

So there's a part in the book about, he was such a reputation as a swordsman that he felt like a pressure for it because he felt like when he was with a woman, they were expecting, uh, you know, a dirt digger type experience. I'm just a normal guy. But he would, you know, take these different vitamins to try to have more energy. He's trying to keep up the legend. I mean, he was with Madonna.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4027.786

That might have been like the number three QB.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4067.826

18 TDs. So Dan Pastorini had 17. He was 15th overall that year. Terry Bradshaw had 20. He was 10th. Oh, 28. No, I'm looking at the wrong thing. No, that's actually really good. Gary Danielson, 18 TDs. He was sixth. Wow. Jesus. I was looking at interceptions because those are higher. Fran Tarkington led the league that year with 32 interceptions.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And guess what? Ken Stabler had 30. Well, Ken Stabler, it was all or nothing for Ken Stabler. Steve Grogan had 23. Yeah, you were more likely to throw. Joe Pasarczyk that year had 12 TDs and 23 interceptions. These guys were just getting massacred. Yeah. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4127.595

This is What's Aged the Worst. Julie Christie trying to save Pagelsham. The town of Paglisham. Here's what we know. There's 1,760 citizens losing their homes because they're building a refinery. Are you allowed to just take people's homes? Is that a thing that happens? I guess eminent domain. I don't know if it happens in England. That's a thing that happens?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4155.538

I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I know you've read some Howard's in, man. Come on. No, but Leo Farnsworth's just like, yeah, I'll be taking, I'm just building a refinery, guys. We about to get a new pod here.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4173.945

What's her job? She's a teacher. She's a teacher. She just leaves? Yeah, it's what was Super Bowl. She's gone. She's in LA. She's going to save the town. It's in December. Right.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4197.699

Just asking questions. How did the clarinet end up in front of Tom Jarrett's locker at the end? Why did that happen? Where'd it come from? You sound like Wendy.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

421.964

Remember, he showed up in the Truth or Dare documentary.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4224.975

No, we should have, um, I don't know why it's there. I don't know why it shows up in the locker room. Just basically to make Max think that it's really Joe and it's not. But it has no purpose. Here's my big one, though. This is more than a nitpick. I just don't think it was a catch on the final play. Oh. Yeah, I don't think he had two feet down. He caught it.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4247.122

He's starting to make a football move, but not really. And then it's a fumble and... Joe Pendleton, Tom Jarrett goes 60 yards. I feel like that's an incomplete pass. I thought it was an incomplete pass.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4264.11

Do you think that was a continuation, Craig?

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4283.129

No announcers really heard that one. I don't know what, uh, Kirk Addy was doing on that play. Um, that's all I have for what's aged the worst. Ruffalo hand and ribbon neck partridge overacting word. Jack Worden dials it up during the, uh, during the murder kind of when they're trying to turn the tables and get the confession. Yeah. He starts just screaming for 40 seconds.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4314.958

I needed, needed to see Stevie Nicks with the Eagles at the halftime show.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4324.424

Um, The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford had a stake award. Do you have one, Van? I do. Okay. This is a horror movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

441.775

And then Bugsy. That was his last run.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4479.195

Well, that's not what he said, though. They took him mistakenly. It wasn't his time. He wanted to live something as close to his life as he had before.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

450.121

But it had a lot of Oscar nominations. It did. We always talk about it that year. It was like a big Bugsy. Yeah.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4527.849

So I was going to talk about this later, but we should talk about this now. For your hottest take? No, just in general. Because the different version of this movie is he just has his memory the whole time and it ends.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4538.172

But it's not as good of a movie. Yeah. Because we don't get the Jack Warden scene.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4574.773

And it's like, he's not living like the. But do you think now that Joe Pendleton's soul is in Tom Jarrett? He's just going to be like, you know what I've been thinking? We should move to Malibu.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

46.575

I have. Super 70s Month. Wow, you did the sweep. Can't wait to talk about this. I'm Bill Simmons. Heaven Can Wait is next.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4615.427

I'm not against this one. You really could say Mr. Jordan was actually the devil and he wasn't in heaven.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4645.474

And was like, yes! Jay Williams was like, straight it down. I like this egg. My hottest take, I think Julie Christie was the hottest British lady that ever lived. Oh, come on, man. I think the British goat, not necessarily in this movie, but just for me, it's her and it was Elizabeth Hurley in the finals. Eva Green? Is Eva Green British?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4675.193

Young Helen Mirren? Eva Green's British?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4678.094

Oh, yeah, she's French. My bad. Shout out to Eva Green. I still have Julie Christie against everybody. The dreamers. Oh, my God. So that's the hottest take. Ben Latham Award. Did this movie need more black people?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4733.732

Even Max being black would have worked. I was thinking... There's a whole alternate universe where Tom Jarrett is black. And it's like, you have your chance to come back and play for the Rams.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4784.443

Well, it would have been the new second string quarterback who would have been like the Joe Milton of that team. And he would have to be like, oh, okay. How bad do I want this?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4795.571

By the way, probably a better sequel. Joe Pendleton becomes the black backup quarterback after he wins the Super Bowl.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4817.476

He had that one game. Casting what ifs. Warren Beatty really wanted Cary Grant to accept the role of Mr. Jordan. offered him $1 million and had his ex-wife Diane Cannon pushing. And Cary Grant said, no thanks, I will stay retired. Turned out $1 million. James Mason. I still love the verdict, James Mason. But an incredible late period push. And that's why it should be disallowed. Furthermore.

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‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4843.42

I like evil James Mason more than heavenly James Mason. Captain Nemo James Mason is great. Diane Keaton was Warren Beatty's alleged first choice for the role. Buck Henry has said a lot after that. They tested all these actresses and it just... Poor baby really wanted to be Julie Christie because he was still kind of in love with her.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4897.021

Basically, everybody, Warren Beatty was the number one, if we get this guy, the movie's getting made. And Newman and Redford were probably 2A and 2B, I think, right? Back then? Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4933.956

Yeah, just being Eastwood. He's like, I'm ready to shoot, Jack.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4949.67

You got something itching in those pants waiting to get out, Dirk. Three directors considered to direct. Arthur Penn, Mike Nichols, Peter Bogdanovich all bounced around, but Beatty really wanted to direct it himself. Bogdanovich's version would be really interesting to me. His career was pretty much in shambles at this point.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4998.718

He definitely is lobbing grenades. Neil Diamond composed a song titled Heaven Can Wait, specifically for the film, but Beatty declined to use it. I was trying to think what that song could be. Heaven can wait. Best That Guy Award. So the Rams coach, played by my guy Dolph Sweet, who was the dad in Give Me a Break with Mel Carter. I have John Randolph, the Rams owner.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5034.837

He's on Small Wonder. Small wonder. Good one. Diane Waiter. Dion Waiter's award has to go to Diane Cannon. I think she's eligible. Oh, yeah? What about Groton? Could be one or the other.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5060.812

No, she's... She's second billing. Fine. Deacon Jones. Got a couple lines. There you go. Deacon Jones. Yeah. Recasting couch director or city. I actually really like how this movie's cast. I don't think I would do anything. You wouldn't move it to Foxborough? No. No. I think this needs to be away. We need the Malibu footage.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5117.745

the last two were the coen brothers twice for true grit and for no country for old men heaven can wait and then uh two guys for west side story not common they usually have a bunch of rules they can't have co-directors they discourage it they don't like it yeah i think you have to be like the coen brothers who are like no no no it's cool we're doing this like as a team yeah um

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5140.222

Biskin, he said Christie used to be really hard on Warren Beatty in his book about that he was basically making sellout movies. And apparently in that wide shot when he's walking with her before, like basically their last scene together in the mansion when he tells her if I ever come back as their own quarterback, the wide shot they're talking and they're just supposed to pretend they're talking.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5162.194

And apparently she was saying, I can't believe you're still making these fucking dumb movies. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5167.017

all these people are all over Europe making fabulous films and you're still doing this shit and then smiling at them like she was sweet talking them and was just like fucking with them the whole movie yeah but now in retrospect it's like what is she talking about because like Parallax View Shampoo and Make Even Mrs. Miller which are the precursors to this are all

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5186.138

And I would argue this was a really good movie that he should have done. And he was red. Typical British person. This is why they fucking suck. Get them the fuck out of here. We sent that packet in 1776. I stand by it. It wasn't we. I'm just saying.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5223.294

What is this Apex Mountain? I think it's shampoo.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5231.978

I personally would say Shampoo because I think after Shampoo, he could do anything he wanted, which ended up being this movie that he writes, produces, directs, and stars in. And the studio's like, here, take money.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5253.12

coked up 1980 I don't know if he was a coke guy 1982 Los Angeles Warren Beatty coming off reds think he's getting chicks social engagements yeah maybe who knows Julie Christie no I told you her apex mountain was 1965 movies involving heaven metaphysical body swap movies I have this like it's a question now so it's this it's like chances are which I love what you guys don't really care about Freaky Friday

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5280.131

You're talking about... Switching bodies?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5284.214

Yeah, like coming back down from... Coming back down. I think this is the most famous one.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5320.066

This isn't Grodin, but what is Grodin? Is it Midnight Run?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5329.792

Jack Worden, probably not. I think he won, got nominated for stuff. The Rams, they win a Super Bowl.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5338.276

Diane Cannon... She's going to Laker games. Magic's about to show up. Got nominated for an Oscar.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5366.759

I think she was in the Pointer Sisters NBA Fantastic commercial.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5379.927

Overtime Super Bowl games, no. Shout out to the Falcons fans. Which person mansions in a movie? Is there a better one than the Falolo, whatever it's called, mansion?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5399.916

Yeah. Cruiser Hanks. Hanks. Hanks. Hanks, yeah. Hanks, Greg.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5416.305

Come on. I think his bike, his bike riding scene would have been incredible. I don't know if Tom Hanks is convincing me as a quarterback.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5422.908

He would have really taken the football scene seriously.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5433.965

Scorsese or Spielberg, this feels like Spielberg 100 times out of 100. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5443.289

Yeah. Oh, I skipped your flex category, Van.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5494.285

The Rams coach didn't care that Tom Jared was legally dead.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5500.431

Power right on two. I like that, Craig. Picket nets. I have just a slew of them.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

551.606

And then Newman was always trying to prove that he was more than what people thought he was. Right.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5515.062

Only Alex Guerrero had that much. I was going to say, there's a lot of CB12 in this movie. Um, how do you take over somebody's body?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5530.995

How do you take over someone's body if you don't know anything about their life? And wouldn't the first two weeks be like, wait, where's the bathroom? Who are you?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5555.851

I think there should have been a scene where he picked up a picture of him and looked at a wedding picture of him and Diane Cannon and just... We get to see who it was.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5594.447

Yep. How does Max have time to train fake Leo Farnsworth for weeks when he's supposed to be the Rams trainer? It's a really solid nitpick. I have a lot more. Oh, we did. How old was Farnsworth? What was his body like? Can you buy the Rams in like four days? Probably not. You can't. Probably a vote. The fucking whole league has to vote. Yeah. The commissioner has to vote.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5616.767

The money has to be exchanged hands.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5625.513

It's like you can't. No fucking way. You can't do it. He starts trying to buy them during the playoffs. And then they're in the Super Bowl, and he's already the owner, and he's been practicing for a couple weeks.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5641.812

All the people with aggro coaches. Oh, yeah. Rabel's like, I fucking love the tush push. What happened to Tom Jarrett when Leo was practicing with the Rams? The owner just shows up and starts taking reps and they're about to play in the Super Bowl and they have a starting quarterback. What do you mean, what happened to him? Tom Jarrett's just like, all right, I'll just be over here.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5662.631

He's the starting quarterback. They're about to play in the Super Bowl. This would have been the hugest story Like insane new Rams owner takes over Rams and takes reps from Jared during a practice. This is all anyone would have talked about.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5684.197

Jared was second. He was starting for Pendleton because Pendleton was hurt. Pendleton was coming back from an injury. Oh, so Pendleton had hurt his knee. He lost his job. He was coming back.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5705.319

And steroids. Pablo Torre would have done a long podcast about Leo Farnsworth trying to practice with the team and then done a media tour about it afterwards.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5741.132

It was a story that everybody was talking about. That's fine. Maybe do two shows about it. Could an owner actually play for his own NFL team?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5761.528

Might not have been covered. I was thinking Matt Ishby was the ultimate new owner syndrome guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5812.129

It's the biggest possible gun that you could never hide for a million years. It would take five hours to take it apart.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5854.224

Max skips the Super Bowl to help the police catch the killer. We mentioned that. How did Max get to the Super Bowl that fast? It's the fourth quarter.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5878.046

Okay. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable. I think the prestige TV case is really good for this. Oh, yeah. I would be, the whole Farnsworth, I would have, I could have spent eight episodes with it.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5897.642

Maybe we go to Pagelsham and see what's going on with the refinery.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5912.17

Is this movie better than Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5965.565

I didn't have one for this one. Do you have one? What? Wayne Jenkins? He doesn't really do a lot of voices.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5972.751

I had to go back to Ryan Rucco since it's WNBA time. I'll do Rucco. Yeah. Shooting. warren baity with a long rifle he's i am from across the mountain you bet my cannon goes off you bet i just want to ask her who gets it it won an oscar for art direction so i guess that wins is that silver richard silver i guess that's the winner you know what though i felt like maybe warden

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6006.008

Word for best supporting? Best supporting. The problem is this was Walken's year for Deer Hunter. Oh, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6014.999

I don't remember. Deer Hunter. Probably unanswerable questions. What movie? Van. What's up? If heaven was like heaven can wait and hell was like ghost and you could lock that in, are you good?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6038.186

There's a real chance hell could be way worse. The plane seems solid. Yeah. The plane's taking you somewhere.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6074.807

I just feel like that. I guess my question with heaven is people are still working in heaven in this movie. Like, Buck Henry and James Mason have jobs.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6099.678

Good Heaven. Robin Williams and Cuba Gooding? Cuba Gooding. Good Heaven.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6219.215

I need to be in a state where there's sleep-lapse gambling. They show me the states and I'm like, California doesn't work. Ohio, that works.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

623.486

The other thing he did, he was always the star of the movie. Uh-huh.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6236.405

This is one of those things. There's two types of people. The people that think about this and wonder what's going to happen. And then the people who try not to think about it at all. And I'm in the latter camp.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6245.608

I'm in the latter camp. I don't like thinking about this stuff at all.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

626.969

he never fucked around he's never like i'll take this i'll take the matt damon part in oceans 11 like he never would have done that he would have been clooney he was always like i'm gonna be the guy in the movie if there's a best-looking woman in the movie that's gonna belong to me in the movie and i'm gonna be the winner in the end he also died in a lot of movies too which he wasn't afraid to um no like bonnie and clyde i mean bonnie and clyde it all takes off that's 1967 yep

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6265.664

Just the Watane Award for what happened the next day. Tom Jarrett. Probably on the Superstars that summer on ABC. Yeah. You think he moves on from Betty Prefest? Might have done like a Three's Company cameo. Maybe a Gatorade or Wheaties type ad. And I think he eventually gets CT from the hit he took in the Super Bowl. He's probably eating out of a straw in 1970, 1992. That's it for Tom.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6344.551

Ends up living in Pugsham. Packersham. Packersham. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6360.216

I genuinely love the Rams jackets that those guys are wearing. Those windbreakers. Those are fucking cool. I may or may not have looked on eBay for, for them just to see if they were kicking around, but the coach has them on too.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6371.845

Really, really, really cool. Uh, the clarinet would be an interesting thing to have. Yeah. A ticket stub for the actual preseason game.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6379.951

They was 1977. Yeah. And then Jared's Rams jersey. That's what I have. I have Jared's jersey. It's an interesting conversation.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6390.622

Yeah, what happened? No, it's like a receiver number.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6399.631

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. There's a reason for everything. There's always a plan. That was a bad James Mason. I like that concept, though. There's a reason for everything. There's always a plan. Gotta believe it if it's not true. Best double feature choice. I would say Shampoo. Let's just go mid-70s Beatty and knock it out.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6449.87

She just kind of blew it over and over and over again. Just, What was the movie she hid in? Mallrats. Mallrats, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6460.4

Who won the movie? Warren Beatty. Beatty won. Producer Craig, never saw the movie. What do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

652.122

And he rigs it so that he makes it. He ends up making a shitload of money from it. He does an Allman movie. He does Parallax View. Does Shampoo. Does Heaven Can Wait. Does Reds. He only makes, I mean, really, like six real big movies in like a 14-year span.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6640.515

Warren Beatty would have played Ken and Barbie. He would have done that. He would have taken that risk.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6650.382

He was a pussy in that, though. He was. That's it for Big Ass Stuff this month. Well done. CR, Van, had a great time. I'm sorry. Greg didn't have his good time. Greg, don't ever apologize.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6668.953

It's fine. No bad opinions. It's a podcast. We'll be back next week and it won't be a sentence. Thanks.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

672.149

Can we talk about what he turned down? Sure. The Sundance Kid. Yeah. Michael Corleone, which would have been ridiculous. Yeah. Later, he turned down Gordon Gekko and Jack Horner. The Gekko role he should have took. He would have been an amazing... The one real regret he said he had was not doing Jack Horner. He really wished he had done that one.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

692.738

And there's apparently... I don't know how apocryphal this is that he was pushing to play Dirk Diggler.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

706.565

Like, you can't... He said, no, no, here's how it could work.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

714.329

Right, he had that, he had The Sting, Great Gatsby, Superman was the original call for that, Splash, Big, Dave, Indecent Proposal, which would have been great, and then Misery, which Goldman wrote about in his book, and Warren Beatty just didn't want to be in the bed for that long. He felt like he was neutered in the bed. He couldn't do it.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

768.564

I think he did want to do it he just couldn't 100% get there because he kept circling back and like and then he's like I don't know in the bed and he couldn't get past the crippling scene yeah that was a big thing for him he either wanted to be the hero or he wanted to have like a violent death but to be play a guy who got crippled just limping around couldn't like get his head around it he also made three movies with Julie Christie

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

789.58

He made McCabe and Mrs. Miller, which was the Altman movie, Shampoo. They broke up. And then they did Heaven Can Wait. And it was... They both dated different people after, but still had some sort of connection. Yeah, it seems like he... And there's some really good stories about them doing 80 takes of the same scene and... them having a little cat and mouse game on the set.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

818.703

Yeah. Do it again, Sierra. Do it one more time. And then you're not even getting notes. I just have to do Wayne Jenkins.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

861.713

I agree. I think it's because the movies didn't... I mean, this is the first rewatchables we've ever done for movies. Think about that. We've done 17 Tom Cruise movies. We've done 11, 13 Pacino movies. We've done multiple David Caruso movies at this point. We've done 10 De Niro movies. I think some of them feel very 70s-ish or 60s-ish.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

881.397

Actually, it would be fun to do Bonnie and Clyde, but it's just, you know, that's a movie that really feels like it came out in the 1960s.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

923.93

Crazy movie. I, I love Shampoo. Shampoo's incredible. It's a crazy movie, though. It would be interesting if you just threw this on for... I should make my daughter watch it and see what her take is.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

95.157

All right, Heaven Can Wait, our first Warren Beatty movie. You said this was one of your favorite movies.

The Rewatchables

‘Heaven Can Wait’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

964.553

My wife watched this movie with me on Sunday night. And at one point, it was just a long shot on Warren Beatty. And my wife was like, God, he was so handsome. And I think that's like 90% of it. Yeah. And he also had a really good sense of who to play and what to not do. He was like a quarterback that knew exactly what...

The Rewatchables

‘Blue Chips’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

151.343

We owe it to him! Nick Nolte and Shaquille O'Neal. Blue Chips, rated PG-13. Starts Friday, February 18th at theaters everywhere.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1110.635

That's also Paul Haggis on his, like, I'm no longer a Scientologist tour.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1115.017

That's a whole part of this narrative. Like, why did this win Best Picture? Part of it is Scientology.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1122.389

Paul Haggis is a massive Scientologist. And a lot of this is like Scientology at the height of its secretive power in Hollywood before it starts. Like in 2007 is when you start getting bigger exposés on Scientology. And people start saying like, oh, hey, where is Shelley Miscavige? Like what has happened in Scientology before that? They're operating in the shadows.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1142.505

And this is like one of their biggest, you know. Haggis wins for Million Dollar Baby once.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1147.729

like he wins the screenwriting yeah wins for crash does like three films the following year like he's on a heater and then he leaves the church of scientology and the minute he does he's gone yeah and that's just like i'm sorry i don't mean to sound like conspiracy joanna but that is i'll give you the background on him longtime tv writer in the 80s 90s early 2000s won the back-to-back screenwriter oscars walker texas ranger won best film for this movie yeah did family law was that with the bald guy

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1200.231

He got like arrested abroad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1211.82

Brendan Fraser and Sandra Bullock.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1233.177

No, she goes by Tandui Newton. Yeah, she changed it.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1237.398

Ryan Philippe, you call him? Ryan Philippe.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1364.819

He is second fiddle to Ludacris in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1374.024

Ludacris is... Genuinely great in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1385.67

I mean, he's good in the Fast movies, but he's not trying to do anything in the Fast movies.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

147.571

Yeah. So just a spicy text exchange.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1557.6

Here we go. We're coming for Scientology and Oprah. Let's do it.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1616.853

Are you going to call it Oprah lose-free?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1622.773

Doesn't roll off the tongue, but we can workshop it.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1628.295

I don't. Well, here's my question about Paul Haggis pitches this as a TV show.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1634.558

What does Crash the TV show look like?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1644.122

But what does it look like in the mid-2000s? Where is it airing?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1657.955

I think it's Showtime. I think you're right.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

168.847

That's what you said. I want to know what mood you're in when you sit down to rewatch crash.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1693.351

Well, he also does a murder, but... Yeah, I mean... So it's not a bad pick. What about Fickner?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1719.852

That's the one that's closest to an actual conversation that a human has had in their life.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1766.563

But in that first conversation, the one that you're saying, the Cheadle Fickner conversation, when you had that conversation, did that person say to you, Black people, am I right? Is that something that they said with their mouth to you?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

179.632

What's happening on a day where Bill's like, I'm going to fire up crash. I got to, I got to get my crash flipping channels. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1806.095

Yeah, that conversation, just not the way that it plays out inside of this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1834.717

As I, your most Karen-adjacent member of the Ringer staff, she's way worse than a Karen. The thing about a Karen is that it's sometimes subtle or insidious. There's no subtlety here with this character. You know what I mean?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1859.429

Guys, there's no bad options in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1941.017

Because it's all systemic, the Brendan Fraser character and the Fickner character and that whole office... Again, it's Settler, especially the Brendan Fraser character, who you could argue if you're watching it, you think, well, he's close to a good guy. He doesn't want his wife to say racist shit inside of his house and stuff like that. But like... No. There's nastiness there, too.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

1966.114

And the nastiness that's hidden, I think, is much scarier than her spewing it around the house.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

204.9

I have not seen it since I saw it in theaters. Maybe we call it the hate watchable.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2190.289

Oh, I wrote 15, Baby's First Racism. Oh, interesting.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2235.831

10-minute regret. I've heard Van drop this take on countless superhero movies. It happens all the time.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2273.29

There was some good stuff in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2277.03

I think seeing it when you're younger and thinking it's really saying something and then watching it again when you're a little older.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2487.315

I'm so confused, though, but he's throwing trash into a car fire at the end of the movie. Isn't that a show of strength and character growth?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2512.709

If those decisions don't happen, he's still roadie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2531.015

My thing is a testament to how talented he is, is that he kept getting hired after these things became obvious. Because think about it.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2546.52

He was the first hired onto Iron Man. The first actor hired on Iron Man. Highest paid, too. Highest paid.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2610.122

Never before since has Danza done something like that, I think.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2626.107

That scene makes me sick to watch, honestly.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2677.866

Yeah. Michael Pena and his daughter.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2706.886

You know, I know all the sociological reasons why per capita, eight times more black men are incarcerated than white men. Schools are a disgrace. Lack of opportunity, bias in the judicial system, all that stuff, all that stuff. But still, it's it's got to get to you on a gut level as a black man. They just can't keep their hands out of the cookie jar.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2727.091

I mean, he's a Fichtner fan. Fickner doing voice only work in Mr. and Mrs. Smith is one of my top tier stealth great performances.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2742.285

The landline on Sandra Bullock that she drops as she falls down the stairs. Ooh, landline.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2757.432

Unironic racism is an enduring legacy, Bill. But yeah, no one filming any of this police stuff.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2800.499

And then he was fired up in Landman.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2853.513

Indictment of the LAPD, top to bottom. Yeah, that's age nicely.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2889.961

I will say a critique of the health insurance industry.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

291.141

Right. But this was supposed to be sort of his revival.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2932.776

Don't do that. Don't take the bait. Don't take the bait. This isn't American Idol.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

294.827

And it didn't quite work out that way.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

299.035

He was the only actor nominated out of this movie, and that's just one of the many delightful things about Crash.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

2994.396

And that's under, for me, that's under the umbrella of the LAPD indictment because there's like Keith, from Keith David to Ryan Phillippe and everything in between. It's just like, there's no good corner at the LAPD in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3056.818

And then she made All About Steve and changed it all around for herself. You know what I mean?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

306.158

I agree with Van. I don't think I've seen it. I saw it since I saw it in the theaters, but I remember it so well. So rewatching it, I was like, these are sort of iconic, comical, but iconic film scenes. You know, the Matt Dillon, Tindy Wynne Newton car crash scene, Michael Peña with his daughter. Like there's just a bunch of moments.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3095.945

Interesting. You should rewatch it. You should rewatch it. That's actually a really good rewatchable. That one gets better every time you watch it.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3102.728

What? What about Inception? Do you like Inception?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3131.901

But I think they're all better the more you watch them.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3140.826

Wow. Fickner catching another stray. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3184.601

I love having a State Farm commercial on the crash episode. That's great stuff. Great.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3209.514

This is a screenwriter who tried to direct a movie. The one flare is the reverse zoom on Michael Pena when he's screaming because he thinks his daughter got shot.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3235.124

With taking the gloves off, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3254.753

There's a Stereophonics Maybe Tomorrow drop right at the end, which I like, but there's also... It was nominated for Best Original Song. Kathleen York, who plays the cop early in the movie, she plays one of the cops early in the movie, her song In the Deep plays, and it is the most, like...

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3272.022

we want to be magnolia amy man moment yeah um okay but no but it's bad good answer like it's but you win though but it's that's good enough to win yeah chess rockwell and brocklander's award for best character names say it say it bill

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

328.153

Santa Bullock falling down the stairs, whatever it is, you know, there's something for everyone. But I just remember this movie so well.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3288.578

Shaniqua. Definitely Shaniqua. There you go.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3338.813

Are you just doing Sandra Bullock movies?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3366.921

Yeah. I was really hoping The Help would be on there. That's what I was really getting for.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3388.268

You feel bad because there's good scenes. It's like this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3394.832

I was working in a bookstore when that book came out. And this woman that I worked with who was in her 60s or 70s who worked at the store with me. hated the book so much. But people were coming in, white women were coming in by the droves to buy the help. And she was like, oh, the hep? You want to get the hep? You just call it the hep? Like to their faces.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3413.072

And they thought they were mishearing her because she was this older woman and she could just get away with it. It was great.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3439.417

It says blanks. He can't read English.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

344.464

So he could find out that Carol's a bitch.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3442.878

He can't read his insurance policy. He doesn't read English. And his wife is Diana Troy from Star Trek.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3457.859

It's just blanks. I didn't see any cartoons on this particular box.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3467.844

If there's a madman on the street with a gun, let's say.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3474.847

I mean, they might have called the cops. You don't know what they did when they got in the house.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3480.638

Is that crazy guy still out there? Oh, he is. Hey, you guys want to watch a movie? It's Christmas, too. This is a Christmas movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3489.988

There's wreaths and Christmas trees everywhere.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3496.789

He could speak it poorly and he could not read it.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3536.235

I think that character... A miscasting? I think, A, it's miscast.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3541.918

I agree. And it would be a lot better with that. But I think he's miscast because Ryan Phillippe has... I'm just saying it wrong now. Ryan Phillippe has a face that I don't trust ever. I've never trusted him.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3554.705

I want him in Cruel Intentions. Great in Cruel Intentions. I don't want him as like a, oh no, not him. He shot someone. Yeah. Which is sort of what you're supposed to feel in this moment. And then the turn from that character is... Doesn't make any sense. Makes no sense. You need a beat between... Or you need to see him visibly shaken from the interaction with Terrence Howard. It's a great choice.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3653.402

How good or watched does the movie have to be in order to get that title?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3689.978

We saw pitched in this text exchange a James Spader freak era Rewatchables series.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3738.658

The Matt Dillon hero turn. Yeah, that's easy.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3742.579

The Matt Dillon stuff and the fact that he's then the only actor nominated for this movie. Have you seen that clip?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3774.941

That's what I thought when I saw Matt Dillon was the only actor nominated for Crash.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3785.588

The image of this movie, the image of this movie is her clinging to him after the crash.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3800.257

joanna's like joanna might move here this movie's gonna get in her head can i tell you when i first moved to san francisco i i was walking down the street this is like right after this movie came out and this guy and this is gonna sound unreal because i recently said on a different podcast about an inception pickup line that a guy tried on me but i bumped into this guy and he's like let's crash into each other like the movie and i was just like like literally wow that is the thing that has happened to me san francisco's freaky

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3834.434

Do you think he was talking about this movie or do you think he was talking about the James Baker movie?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3857.556

Well, it's because everyone's racist, Bill. That's what this movie wants to teach you.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3936.237

I think it actually kind of works on him in a way, unfortunately, it doesn't work for the wife character who we literally don't know. Yeah. Because she gets a really long like, no, like a platoon.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

3965.583

But I think it's Beverly Todd as Mrs. Waters as Don Cheadle's mom.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

398.276

Yeah. Except instead you have Loretta Devine, like, coming in and saying, like, speak American to me in the car crash scene at the end.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4009.091

Oh, I am stealing. I sent you 40 options. In honor of House of R, I'm stealing the Mallory Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better or an additional sex scene?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4020.964

And I'm going to say we deserve to see Brendan Fraser and Nona Gay have sex.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4027.364

When Cedar Bullock calls him at the end.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4030.127

When Cedar Bullock calls him at the end.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4054.31

Well, I just think when Sandra Bullock calls at the end and she's like, I fell down and he's like, your friend's a bitch. Right. He should have been having sex with her rather than just like glancing at her at the elevator.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4080.984

Yeah, and then you find out that he's having sex. Good one.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4095.541

Did you guys know how to sing for this?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4100.489

Right. I think there's a really good short film in here that's just the ludicrous scenes.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4154.259

You see a guy sink down on the street, and you're like, he's just going to stay there. He's just going to stay there.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4166.722

Story has the ability to transport and change us, though.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

418.721

You saw this movie and you were like, that's where I want to be.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4180.782

I thought of the Cheadle role. Is it the Howard role?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4199.917

I mean, he makes Brokeback Mountain instead. So good for him. But yeah, I think Heath Ledger. I mean, I actually have different casting ideas for that role. But I think Heath Ledger is a huge improvement in the Ryan Phillippe role. That character still needs one more scene at least to get where he gets.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4221.445

Monster's Ball. I haven't thought about that in a long time.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4237.509

No, Cusack in the Dylan role would have been great.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4252.581

I think Cusack would have been, I think of those three, Heath Ledger's sort of the big one, but I think Cusack is the stealth. This would have been a much better movie with Cusack in the Matt Dillon role.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4270.035

The gun store owner. That's mine. Yeah. I looked at his CV. This guy usually plays cops. And here are some of his character names that he's played. Detective. Sheriff. Deputy. The Chief. There's so many roles he's played that it's just like the name of the rank of the police officer.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4298.367

Keith David was also that guy for a long time. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4304.35

I think it changed with something about Mary.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4342.227

It's not too late for Jennifer Esposito.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4358.443

When he says, he's my pick. And when he says... Do I look like I want to be on the Discovery Channel? Right. Loved it. Love that guy. I like that guy. And also, I would say the woman at the locksmiths who will not give up Michael Pena's name, who's just smoking and over it and slashing her chair and wearing all the eyeliner. I really liked her, too.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4401.941

Okay. On the Ryan Phillippe role.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4416.522

No, he's the exact same age as Ryan Phillippe. I looked up actors that were the same age as Ryan Phillippe. He's the exact same age. This is the year he made Eurotrip and Ocean's 12th.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4426.247

Eurotrip, greatest cameo of all time. Also, additionally, Tobey Maguire, Casey Affleck.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4439.393

I don't think Josh Hartnett is good enough.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4457.947

You just wanted to see Sandy's feet more than when she fell down the stairs.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4552.82

Yeah, it's a wild stab in the dark.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4556.943

How special is that underwear, right? Is it like...

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4563.333

Yeah, but he's, like, real, like... Yeah. He's really up in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4592.555

I tried. I'm like, how protective can that underwear be?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

460.07

So, okay. So when do you think LA is going to grow tired of your shtick? What do you think? Never.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4604.369

I think it has to be like the metal chastity belt from Robin Hood Men in Tights. I think you need something... A barrier. Apex Mountain.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4686.932

The Church of Scientology's influence, Apex Mountain.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4729.416

I want Cruise in this because if we're doing Magnolia Methadone, we might as well go all the way. And I also think you need cozier energy in this L.A. movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4761.876

I mean, certainly not at this time in his career. Hanks doesn't belong here.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4781.401

If it's a Church of Scientology joint, why not invite Tom Cruise? Yeah, where was he? It's true.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4799.676

He's not the reason that movie sucked.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4894.143

How's the peeping, Tommy? I think in the Fickner role, in his Charlie Wilson's war mode.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4914.012

I just wrote, oh God, all of them.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4921.956

Bill Simmons top 10 nitpicks of Crash.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4932.601

Nobody does anything that they do in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4936.043

There are no human being behaviors in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

4992.203

But that's the disease of this kind of movie. The vignette everything's connected movie. Yeah. The like fable.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5008.714

That movie's fucking awesome. No one knows about that movie except for me. Ryan Phillippe's in that movie. Dennis Quaid's in that movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5018.617

Sorry, spoiler. Great Gina Rowland movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5021.478

There's a monologue about dancing about architecture in that movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5025.899

Literally, I don't know anyone else who's ever seen that movie. It would just be me and Joe in Rewatchables. Rewatchables, Playing by Heart. Let's do it.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5056.564

And he like drops a cigarette. Yeah, drops it in the head.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5106.171

When Ludacris is slouching in the front seat.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5110.316

But Ryan Phillippe's like, let's just walk away from this.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5156.797

I think he was supposed to show up to that scene.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5185.543

He's like, first of all, they're Thai or Cambodian. Secondly.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5203.937

He got all fucking... I think he knows what he's doing.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5237.94

I think it's untouchable, but not the way you usually use untouchable on this show. True.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5269.117

The sequel to this is The Hunt for Ryan Phillippe, right? Yeah. Is Ryan Phillippe going back to work? He burned his car. Is he going to Mexico? Oh, he's going back to work. He's going back to work?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5279.185

So Don Cheadle's looking for the murderer of his brother who was on the force. All of that.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5291.328

Guess what? It's already a comedy. Crash is already a comedy.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5301.95

Yeah, get this on. What is he doing?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5326.25

Wilford Brimley in The Firm in the Fickner role. Because there's that whole scene in the firm where he's showing Tom Cruise the incriminated photos of him, the dossiers.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5350.595

Do you want to say Shaniqua again?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5389.155

And a serious rewrite of the screenplay?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5399.914

It would have been... Oh, it doesn't get any Oscars.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5412.757

How did this movie beat Brokeback Mountain? I guess that's not really the question of the category.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5476.585

Well, it's mostly, I think, that Gyllenhaal and Ledger were... But Ang Lee wins Best Director. It's not inconceivable that it wins Best Picture. I think it was really, really close.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5490.769

Yeah, no. It's just like if it's going to lose. Now it's crazy.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5496.11

Of course, but if it's going to lose to anything, that it loses to Crash.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5531.198

You don't think Ted Dewey Newton kept that?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5574.052

That movie has the hyper-racist rants from all the characters inside of it, but it's like, we did this better. This is how Spiked it. Grand Canyon.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

560.185

I think especially because at that Oscars, Ang Lee had one director. And once he won director, people thought, oh, Shirley Brokeback's going to win Best Picture.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5623.555

And we all collectively lost, I think, as a culture.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

5692.989

It didn't even make a lot of money then. It didn't even make a lot of money then. Oh, Ripley's a legend, dude. No, it made, like, $100 million. I mean, that's crazy. Yeah. Like, relative to the budget. But, like, we used to live in a society where we watched more movies. But who is watching this movie now?

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Wasn't Sound of Freedom the one that they astroturfed the theaters, though, that people weren't actually seeing that? They were just mass buying tickets to make it seem like people were seeing the movie?

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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What is your megachurch scam movie called, man? Ooh, that's a good one. Yeah.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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But it gave people license to say, I feel like it gave people license to say things that they weren't saying in the 90s. You know what I mean? Like we went through a phase in the 90s, the political PC culture, right? And then 9-11 happened and it just sort of let the lid off of a lot of things.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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It was an amazing time. Was the internet a mistake?

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Was the internet a mistake? It was inevitable.

The Rewatchables

‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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That's what we're saying about AI right now.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Great man always, almost, all the way through the movie and then we broke him.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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And he's not going to go shoot people in the street anymore.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Except we took a turn before it won Best Picture. Here's a question for you.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Watching this movie, did you think you were watching the kind of movie where, like, the kid is going to die?

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Yeah. Or, like, it's a different...

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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experience re-watching Crash I actually I hadn't seen it in a long time like Terrence Howard gets out I thought Michael Peña died in the movie that was my memory of it oh yeah when he didn't die I was like oh I forgot when you watch it the first time Terrence Howard gets out of the car with a gun in the back of his belt you're like something terrible's gonna happen yeah yeah the Peña scene was nerve-wracking I was gonna be really see how Craig liked the movie

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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There's some back, there was some backlash before the Oscar win. I, and I only know this because I read a really embarrassing Roger Ebert column where he was defending. We're going to hit that later. Yeah. Yeah. Where he's defending the movie against its, its critics.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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But I said beep, beep. It's the Midnight Boys. Beep, beep. It's pew, pew.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Why would you do beep, beep when it's pew, pew?

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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He had another bite of the apple when people were like, actually, it's not very good. And he's like, how dare you? Here's what you're missing about Crash. Here's what you don't understand about Crash. Let me, Roger Ebert, explain it to you. So that was all before, I think, the Oscar win.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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But yeah, then it really cemented itself as... I think if it hadn't won the Oscar, I mean, we definitely wouldn't still be talking about Crash. We would be talking about it a little bit, but not the way we talk about it, where it became sort of the most famously egregious... Oscar Best Picture win?

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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But that wasn't the case two months ago. I think we do still get those debates.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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I think the other difference, if you want to talk about online outrage culture, that's one thing. But there's also, we aren't all collectively watching movies like this anymore. This is a $7 million movie. It's a small movie. I don't think you get the people, as you're saying, don't go in droves to see this in the theater.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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If they're watching it at all, they're maybe watching it at home in the background. So you won't get an opportunity for people to have that kind of debate about a movie like this because- they're streaming, I don't know, White Lotus instead or whatever else they're watching.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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It didn't get made without him. Yeah. Yeah.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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I don't know. You think not a zero chance? I don't know. We're just not that far away from Green Book. Every time I think we're done with something like this, every time I think we're done, we come back to it.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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And be the hero. And be the hero in that moment. Matt Dillon running up that hill to be the hero. It's a hero shot.

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‘Crash’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Joanna Robinson

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Also, to your point, I think all the racism is so obvious and broad that it just ignores the subtle or like microaggression factuality of how we navigate our lives. And so everyone is such like a caricature of a racist that can make you feel good watching you, a white person watching it, are just like, well, I'm no Sandra Bullock, so I'm fine. I'm not racist, you know?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, when you walk in, they scan your face and whatever and you don't have a ticket. Are you serious? Are you serious?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. Listen, I don't have to wait in a line. They can have all my stuff.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's 10 extra minutes of my life. I feel like you got to have a championship to scan my face. I'm not letting the Clippers scan my face.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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What about making the Western Finals?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, maybe. Maybe they will. But they can't. Come on, man. You got to have more fans.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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They have my face and they can scan all they want out of it. What's the drug in this? Clarion? Neuronin. Neuronin? As 2054 fentanyl, basically?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Like this new drug out of nowhere? Yeah. But a little bit also, I think, supposed to be numbing and hallucinogenic.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Which is a very Philip K. Dick thing. He has lots of... I just read a book of his where it's like everybody is taking a drug and looking at a little model of reality and then they go into the reality. Wow, you have some Phil Dick energy today.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Like Phil dicking it up. Yeah, the drug part of it, because in his actual life, obviously, but the drug part of it is always a staple part of the future for him.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, I think he got down a little bit.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He liked to get wet. FaceTime is in this movie, basically. Giant, giant, awesome, clear TVs. They saw that coming. I liked how they did the highways, even though I don't know how realistic that is. But the car that leaves your place and bounces in and suddenly you're driving. And then we talked about earlier, but the targeted virtual sponsors in a mall. Mm-hmm.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I do feel like that's probably where we're heading. I mean, we're already seeing that where your phone can hear you talk about something and all of a sudden you're served the Instagram ad.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. And also the idea of everything that you do coming with a 15-second ad as like payment for it. So you think about when you're signing up for Wi-Fi on a flight, you got to watch the ad for 15 seconds. The way that the mall looks...

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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in Minority Report is essentially what the international terminal of LAX looks like like when you're sitting there there's like 15 giant billboards just like you really do feel like your brain is getting melted by advertising in there and also in the movie there's so much that's automated and stuff

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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There's so much, the future is, it's so regulated for you that in a weird way, the human interaction, the stakes in the film, they're like, they're raised.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All right, Minority Report. CR has been floating this and suggesting this for a long, long time. He's wearing a master's hat today to try to really capture the magic. Is this the master of his domain? Yeah, that's right.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And I feel like that kind of now is like when you are walking through the world and so much of what you're doing is like in this digital world, that like when you actually talk to a person, it almost feels like the stakes are higher or like what you're saying is a little bit more important. Cause when he's, cause there are parts of the movie where he, it feels like it's technology against him.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But then when he gets with Agatha, it feels like, okay, there's a person on the other side of it. Now it's about how her essential human gift, um, which is like all mystical and ethereal can help him out of his situation against the like technology that he's up against manmade stuff. I can't wait to talk to you about Agatha.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Um, Cruise and Spielberg together, zero movies up until this point, started developing this in 97. Mission Impossible 2 ran over, AI ran over. They were basically like the two guys who kept saying they would have dinner together. Yeah, no, no, we're going to have dinner. And then all of a sudden it happened, but Spielberg was supposed to do Rain Man. ended up doing Indy 3 instead.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And then it finally happened. My favorite Indy. This movie has the following production companies in it. DreamWorks, Amblin Entertainment, 20th Century Fox, Cruz Wagner Productions, and Blue Tulip, which is Jan Dubant's company. Oh, right. You're a big Jan Dubant guy. Who is it? But Cruz and Spielberg, they took 15% of the gross. to keep the... This is the Spielberg... The old Spielberg trick.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's a big bet on yourself guy. They wanted to keep the budget under $100 million.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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You know, it's interesting. I actually learned about that entire method of getting paid through the career of Tom Cruise.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because someone will go, yeah, Tom Cruise made $100 million for War of the Worlds. I'd be like, how is that possible? And then that's when you understand the breakdown of his production company and how you can make it and splits and backing and all of that stuff. I had no clue about any of that stuff until he kind of mainlined it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And this is kind of, I mean, for what it's worth, I mean, part of the reason why film budgets now seem so out of whack is people get a lot of their money up front now.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because there's a little bit less dependability. Because the studio has figured out ways to cheat people out of some of these points. So this movie costs $100 million, makes $400 million or whatever.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And they're like, it only made... Five million. Right. Because we had to spend this much on this. Cruz's director list, this was Pete Cruz. So I'm going to do tiers. This is just everybody he works with from Tony Scott on. We'll go past cocktail. Scorsese, Spielberg, Kubrick. De Palma, Sidney Pollack, Barry Levinson, Ron Howard. Oliver Stone, Tony Scott, Rob Reiner.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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PTA, Neil Jordan, Cameron Crowe, and John Woo. And then his next four after this movie were Michael Mann, Ed Zwick, Spielberg, and Abrams. Tom Cruise laying down the blueprint. And now Leo followed it. And then Chalamet is like, that's what I'm going to do too. And that's the move. I feel like CR would whore himself out a couple times.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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If you had to pick, is this a Tom Cruise movie or a Spielberg movie? I think it's a Spielberg movie, but I don't think it works if it's not Tom Cruise. But the ingenuity of it, the vision of it, the creative flair, I think in some ways it's one of Steven Spielberg's most swagged out movies. He is doing stuff in this just to amuse himself. Just because he can.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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This is how you run your acting career. If you're lucky enough to be like, if you just say, I trust the best directors working right now, you will prosper. And they want to work with you.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I mean, if you get to the position that he got to, you could... Yeah. But, like, I'm saying, like, he could... And he kind of spends the most recent act of his career working mostly with Macquarie and mostly on big blockbusters, right? Yeah. He's going to do an Ina Ritu movie next after Mission Impossible. That will be, like, his return to, like, film film or whatever.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But his run here is inspirational, I think, for anybody who ever achieves, like... any notable amount of success and has the opportunity to do so.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's coming off Eyes Wide Shut, Mission 2, and Vanilla Sky. The next three after this, Last Samurai, Corraderal. Corraderal. Oprah's Couch. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. War of the Worlds. Who directed Oprah's Couch? Well, I'm just saying, this is the time frame we're moving into. He's broken up with Nicole Kidman. Cruise is just about to get his weird on. We don't know this yet in Minority Report.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Is this the official end of Tom Cruise's prime right here? 2002. Yeah. He's bringing still no baggage really whatsoever into Minority Report.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Not only no baggage, I think we've talked about it before. There's an interview with him and Sway. I know I've brought this up on this podcast before where Sway actually looks at Tom Cruise and goes, you know what? For all of your stardom, you're just one of the celebrities that just seems like they get it. You just get it. Like, you were this Herculean everyman. What year is this?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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This is maybe like, this might be Missing Impossible 2 promo run right here because it's MTV. And he's talking to him. And Tom Cruise is just not just the biggest movie star in the world, but he's like America's nice guy. And there's no edge. Of course, there are rumors about his personal life, but all of that stuff doesn't really matter that much.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We don't really have an understanding of Scientology as an actual thing. We don't know what it is. And then, boom, four or five years later, there's this Anakin Skywalker turn where he's berating Matt Lauer in the morning on the morning show. He's jumping on a couch. What year was that?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because I was going to say that for me, probably the real drop-off, even though Mission Impossible 3, I actually love, but is probably... That's Hoffman, right?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I like that one, too. And he makes the Tropic Thunder cameo. But that's 08. That's 08.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The hardest drop-off for me is Night and Day. Because Night and Day is a movie he tried to sell really hard as if it was going to be this giant blockbuster. And I think it was a disappointment. And then after that, it's like Ghost Protocol, Rock of Ages, Jack Reacher, Oblivion. And he's basically only Mission Impossible is how we want to consume Tom Cruise.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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With the exception of maybe Edge of Tomorrow.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But see, even Edge of Tomorrow is very telling about his career. Because Edge of Tomorrow is, to me... Uh, it's the worst. A rapper gets to a certain point to where like you come along, you're building your career as a rapper. And then for whatever reason, hip hop just goes, we're finished with you. We don't like you anymore. It doesn't matter how dope the music that you put out is.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We've moved on to new rappers. And so they're guys, and you'll be trying to tell people, hey, man, I don't know if you know, so-and-so just dropped a crazy album. They just don't care anymore. And so when Edge of Tomorrow came out, that wasn't like Oblivion or some of those other movies that were up or down. I enjoy Jack Reacher, but you could take it or leave it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's like watching him play left-handed. Just like, ah, I'm going to try this. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do all my coverage with camera movement. I'm going to go up a building. I'm going to jump off the building. We're going to do all this stuff about the future, but we're not even going to explain how it works. We're just going to run right through it. It's so fast. It's so energetic.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Edge of Tomorrow is legitimately awesome music. Like, fantastic sci-fi.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I like Jack Reacher. But it kind of lands with a little bit of a thud. And that's when you go, Tom's in trouble. Like, that's when you go, like, he actually made a good album and nobody cares.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It almost had a word of mouth run because people are like, no, no, the Edge of Tomorrow is actually good. No, it's really good. People are, like, surprised by it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That whole thing was like, what's the movie called? Like, is it called Live, Die, Repeat? Yeah, or is it called Edge of Tomorrow? And, like, I think... It was a little bit ahead of its time in popularizing some of the Mexican stuff. Have you guys watched the Oprah's Couch clip?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Many times. Recently? I haven't, but I watched the thing we based... Remember we did Clatheism at The Ringer in early days, and that was based on him in the turtleneck talking about Scientology?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The Oprah's Couch thing, it became... Kind of like a go-to joke, and we all knew what it meant. But I don't know how many times people have actually gone back and watched how fucking insane it is. And it's just this audience of crazy Oprah lady fans just losing their shit every time he gets excited that he's finally in love. And Oprah's like... I've never seen you like this.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And Cruz is like, I know. I know. And then he just starts jumping up and down. And it's like, what is happening? It is way crazier than I think it gets credit for.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think it's one of the craziest celebrity moments ever. But there's a crazy trifecta. There's that. There's him being just crazy. He is furious at Matt Lauer.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And then there's the other thing where he's, whatever the video from Scientology leaks, and he's talking and he's like, yeah, have you ever met an essay before? Right.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I love the guy, but he's fucking batshit. Oh, no, no, no, no.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's really... Okay, so this is a dark time in time. I don't want to get into the... But he really has taken all of that goodwill back. In my opinion.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I agree. Top Gun Maverick. He's taken all of that goodwill. Listen, we love Tom Cruise. But yeah, there's been some moments where you're like, oh, yeah, okay. It's like if you're at a holiday dinner and you have that one uncle who it seems like it's going great and then they just say something absolutely insane after two glasses of wine. You're like, oh.

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I was thinking about this the other day about how he kind of inverted the way actors typically would progress throughout their career. He does all this great stuff with great directors when he's younger. Then he hits a certain point and he's like, I'm just going to make action movies. And I'm just going to throw myself off of stuff.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Even though he's getting increasingly older and probably that's more and more dangerous every time he tries that stuff. This is probably the perfect mix of... Acting Tom Cruise in an interesting, speculative piece of sci-fi drama, conspiracy thriller, and running Tom Cruise because he basically runs for this entire movie because everybody runs.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But I love that it's this weird thing where you'd expect, oh, as you get older, you're going to settle into being like, I'm Paul Newman now. I'm going to play a guy who's having a midlife crisis.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's definitely a Spielberg movie, and it's... Around the same time that Spielberg was messing around with the darker side of Spielberg stuff, he's doing this, he's doing AI, and then even World of Worlds with Tom Cruise again is a little bit of a darker Spielberg take. He's getting a little bit more intense with it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, we always talk about this. Cruise never had the verdict.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. He just never did it. Also, we got to a point with Tom to where we just appreciated what he was willing to do to entertain us. He's willing to live this mysterious, almost monastic lifestyle. He's willing to get on the plane. If you, look, you got on the couch, that's one thing.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But if you're willing to get on the side of the plane, if you're willing to jump off of, you just, I'm going to be like, yeah, I'm fucking with this guy. You know what I'm saying? If you're willing to get, I'm watching it, I'm like, yo, is this motherfucker on the side of the plane? Is he actually on the plane?

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And I think it was those things that kind of like, in an era where it seems like people sometimes force feed the shit, it just seems like he still gives a shit about making good movies.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Let's take a break and then we'll hit the rest of this and get to the categories. Supporting cast in this movie, including a very young, our guy Colin Farrell. Sierra and I did a pod with him. What was that, 2018? Yeah. In person.

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This is right when he was being paraded around like, this is the guy. It was after- In 02. Tigerland. This could be a next guy guy.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. It's his Russell Crowe mid-90s kind of moment where it's like, you might be hearing from this guy in a real way now.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I put it as his Jude Law Gattaca role. Jude Law, yeah, exactly. To where it's like, hey, Ethan Hawke's deleted this, but there's this new guy, Jude Law, and we're going to give him time to cook a little bit because he's going to be on the top of the... It's like Billy Jacoby and just one of the guys, same thing.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's like, this is a Joyce Heiser movie, but this is really a watch out for Billy Jacoby. Our scouts are staying behind to watch Billy Jacoby.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Just one of the guys, guy? Just one of the guys. The little brother? The comedic genius? Yeah, man. Billy Jacoby? I'm distracted by just one of the guys.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I don't want to distract you. I think about the final scene.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think about the reveal. We're already going to distract you when we talk about the precogs later. Samantha Morton as a precog? Yeah. Max von Sydow. What a formative moment for me as a kid. Your guy, Max von Sydow? Yeah. The evil Nazi from Victory. We lost Vin. Catherine Walker.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because you weren't expecting it. Are you talking about just one of the guys still? You weren't expecting it because when she does it, you're like, oh, shit. And it's a PG movie. And it's like, not only is she a girl, but she is a fucking woman. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1931.211

Wow. Wow. You're making CR uncomfortable. I'm all good. You're back, all right. Catherine Walker, Big Mom Fur. Neil McDonough from Dorchester, Mass. That's right. Better than that guy. Great guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1947.977

Throw a cowboy hat on him and put him in anything you want and he's ready to go. Walking tall with a rock. Incredible career. Bad guy in Yellowstone.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1957.26

Love that guy. Music by John Williams. Cinematography by Janusz Kaminski. Written by Scott Frank. Yep. Spielberg. Only nominated for an Oscar for sound editing. And I really want to litigate this. Oh, okay. Best picture that year. Chicago wins. Gangs of New York. The Hours. Lord of the Rings. Two Towers. Penis. Director, Polanski wins. Rob Marshall. Controversy. Rob Marshall for Chicago.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

197.23

And in those movies, to Chris's point, is when he's really showing off how technically brilliant he is just to build tension using the camera and his mastery as a director.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1987.335

Scorsese. Stephen Daldry for The Hours. Pedro Almodovar. Almodovar?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

1994.424

Whatever. Talk to her. Spielberg just shut out. Yeah. I mean, in a really weird way when, and this almost feels like a little like people are like, all right, Steve enough.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

20.6

Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe Show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts. Let's go!

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2006.595

He had his, the Schindler's private Ryan run, maybe like where everybody's just like, you're good now. I don't know how this was.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2013.0

I mean, like when you watch this movie and you watch Chicago, uh, which I have not watched this movie versus Lord of the Rings. Like really? All right. You're going to get Jesus Christ. Fucking guys in your mentions, right?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2023.528

Hobbits coming at you. What are you doing? Well, the rings is a, you're talking about the two towers. He is. I'm not even a huge Lord of the Rings fan. First of all, have you seen Lord of the Rings The Two Towers?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2038.923

Sean Astin in it? He is. You haven't even seen it. The Hours? The Hours is good. The Hours is a good movie. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2046.132

I think what hurts it, though, is we don't have the nine movie categories at this point. If it's a nine movie category, it makes it. Director, we could argue about.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2053.118

Also, Spielberg has LeBron James syndrome. You could basically give him a best directing nod for almost every film that he directs. So he's probably competing against himself. Didn't realize Rich Paul was here. Oh, God, man.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2066.648

Jesus. Now you're going to tell us that Chris Bosh wasn't part of the big three?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2077.376

All right, then the Michael Jordan syndrome. He's directing against himself. And if he is directing against himself, Minority Report is not going to be a movie that you're going to be like, oh, my God, he has to get nominated for that.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2086.623

I can never tell if Rich really likes being on McAfee. I don't know, man. Do you want to skip this topic? Let's move on.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2092.673

$102 million budget. It made $354 million. Yeah. Roger Ebert. What do you think, man? How many stars?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2104.808

I think three and a half. Four stars.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2109.91

I'm just going to read this because it's really good. American movies are in the midst of a transition period. He's right. Spielberg, who is a master of technology, trusts only story and character and then uses everything else as a workman uses his tools. He makes minority report with the new technology. Other directors seem to be trying to make their movies from it.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

211.65

Yeah, it's almost like he's like Jordan just being like, you think I can't do this? What's your nitpick now? And then he would just come up with something to shove it down his throat.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2131.857

The film is such a virtuoso high wire act, daring so much, achieving it with such grace and skill. Minority Report reminds us why we go to the movies in the first place. Wow. Raj is like fucking... That's like a four and a half stars. Yeah. It's like a Dave Meltzer five star match.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2150.456

All right, we're going to the categories. Most rewatchable scene. Howard Marks is about to kill his wife. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2156.497

Let's just say up front, there are great scenes in this movie, but this is a great sequence movie. Oh, yeah. Where it'll be like one scene bleeds into the next. You know what I mean? Chase into a chase. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2167.579

It's difficult to say whether or not it's... Are there three scenes in the Howard Marks thing? The surgery scene and then the scene after that. The spiders.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2175.901

Howard Marks' red ball. Yeah. So we learned that the, uh, the red ball killing still occur. It's like they, they don't spend 10 minutes explaining it. They're just like, Oh, this is a red ball. It's like, what's a red ball. And you just kind of get sucked in.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2188.408

Right. And the idea is basically that premeditated murder is almost extinct because people know they will be caught.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2193.532

So one of the cool things about this movie is this is a pretty far fetched, crazy premise and you get it within 10 minutes. Yeah. It's like, we're trying to stop out. This is the pre crime division.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2203.635

trying to prevent all crime with these three fucking bald women in the in the water who can see stuff ahead of time and if they tell us they'll send a red ball and we gotta stop it before it happens yeah yeah and boom i get it and like the passion of the crime and the humanity of it matter right because they can't there are a couple crimes that they can't stop yeah but murder is it it triggers the precogs and then i like the merry-go-round thing where cruz is like

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

222.755

Yeah, he comes out in 98. I mean, at the end of Saving Private Ryan, and he's done Schindler's List, he's done Amistad, he's done these heavy movies. Heavier movies, sure. He does AI. Amistad's not that heavy. No?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2230.336

With his hands moving. Yeah. And then figures out that it's a merry-go-round. Good scene all around. Next one, Cruz figures out the Leo Crow murder and sees himself.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2260.192

A very cool scene. That is... just a brilliant scene. He's got the people up there. He's got his guy behind him. He has to steal the ball, and he's figuring out for himself the shock of it. This is why I always say that, and I know people are going to say, Tom Cruise is actually underrated as an actor to me. I totally agree.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because when you see everything that's going on, he's doing so many different things emotionally, and the audience is basically reading it from his face. Yeah. And it's fantastic.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2293.414

You're talking to a guy who thinks he should have been nominated for Cocktail. For Cocktail? Yeah, he's amazing.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2298.796

This is... Remember when we were doing Wick and we talked about the moment Wick goes up to the nightclub bouncer?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2307.019

That until he falls off the balcony in the nightclub. And it's like 11 minutes or something like that. I'm like, that's like the best 11 minutes of action movies. The moment from when Wally says... I like you chief. That's why I'll give you two minutes before I hit the alarm. That's the 40th minute to where Anderton pulls out in the new car is 55 minutes. It's a 15 minute run. Wow.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I have two. Yeah. I have almost two scenes in there. Yeah. I feel like, uh, I feel like Jack Sanders would give me two minutes to get out of here.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

234.525

Well, maybe not for you, Bill. You have the comedy cut? No. I would say Amistad. The Apatow cut? I like to think of Bill on a Saturday like, I want a feel-good movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2341.693

I think so. Jack, I feel like you can give me the two minutes.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2343.535

Wait a minute. Did you just make Jack the weird fucking temple precog kissing the unconscious woman guy? Jack, bro, stand the fuck up for yourself right now.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2356.669

It was a compliment. I just think Jack would do that. I like you, Chief. I'm going to give you two minutes before I call Spotify security.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2363.554

Dan's telling me right away. He's like, here he is! Get him! Actually, y'all don't even know me because I'd be like, I'd help you escape.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2385.255

You stop. The elevator ride with Colin Farrell is a good next scene.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2389.92

We get a 2054 car chase. We get Max von Sydow now that you've seen this movie a bunch of times.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2396.973

Seedow? Yeah. Just for all my Max guys out there. I just didn't want you to... I never knew that. Yeah. Max von Seedow. I thought it was... I defer to you, but I never knew that.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2407.638

As Dr. Charles Nichols, would you realize this as you're watching this?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2412.141

Yeah. I mean, if you know who he is... Richard!

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2415.322

Where are you? I love that guy in those movies. This has too. This has the, I like you chief guy. I love when that guy's in any movie where it's guys like, I could probably, but just go and then I'll do it. And then the Charles Nichols and then Cruz jumping on the Jetsons cars. It's phenomenal. And then, which leads to the next scene. I just wrote down Cruz gets away from eight guys. Cruz runs.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2444.314

Pete Cruz running. Fire escape jet pack fight. Yep. Cruz jumps. 50 stories possible nitpick because he's climbing a fire escape for like what? Nine stories, but then falls 50 stories. Oh, just, it's good. It's noted. I love when the jump, like the skydiver move where you, you don't have a pack, but you jump on the other skydiver. They have that.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

246.336

I don't know. Amistad's all right. The deleted scenes are good. No. Amistad and Munich, I think, are two of the heavier movies. That's where we get into Schindler's List and Save Your Private Ride.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2472.398

I really like when somebody crashes through an apartment, but they show the people in the apartment not doing anything. Like, I'm just on my computer. And then Tom Cruise falls through. More Cruise running. Crane fight with Colin Farrell. I love that. Colin Farrell. WWE Hell in a Cell 1997 crane fight.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Kisses his chain, and you know that's his little good luck token.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Gets a little fucking Irish on him. And then it ends with Cruise being embedded in a Tesla. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2498.584

What a sequence. 15 minutes. And also, so cool that Spielberg is like, I'm going to do the jetpack fight. The jetpack chase. And then you're like, you're catching your breath. And he's like, not over yet, motherfucker. We're going into a car factory and we're going to throw cranes at this guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And every part of it has the little futurist elements. The little stun gun where you whip that motherfucker around and then you shoot it again. Then they're fighting. Then...

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2525.82

another futurist element a totally automated car factory that no human workers in it people are fighting nobody is stopping to go hey stop fighting go get the super right well get the conformant like the car gets built around him and then he drives around it a completely consistent movie the entire way and it's such a great image because he's being like hemmed in by all this technology anyway so he's being like imprisoned in the automation of all this and you get your product placement in there yeah lexus lexus

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

255.604

We've actually done a couple of these now. I mean, we haven't done AI, but he does AI, which is sort of this also extension of Kubrick, right? Because Kubrick was originally going to do artificial intelligence. But he does Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can. We've also done Rewatchables. The Terminal, eh. But War of the Worlds, he's just working.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2554.312

Short scene, but the Cruz flashback to when he loses his kid is good with the breath holding and the foreshadowing. Next one I have is blind Cruz moves through the decrepit apartment building as the ID spiders come after him.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2585.04

absolutely Spielberg in his bag, the overhead shot of all the little rooms, the people having sex, people fighting, but stopping for just one second so that the spiders can scan their retinas. Unbelievable.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2595.869

You can see when other people have Jack Steven Spielberg, right? Because, because he, that's the first time I had seen that. I'm sure someone had did it before, but then I think immediately, well, that's John wick, uh, four and the, uh, you know, when you're, when he's got the, the, the dragon's breath shotgun and he's doing the whole deal. It's fantastic.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2614.847

And that's also one of the, to me, scenes in the movie. That's the most heavily influenced by the matrix. Just those little spider guys.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2622.955

Oh, that's another influence. Yeah. I have two things off this scene. Spielberg was going to create the air bubbles rising with CGI. And Tom Cruise said, Steve, I got you. Give me some time to figure out how to do this myself. Which leads us to a brand new award on the rewatchables. The Tom Cruise learned how to do it himself award. Which goes to Tom Cruise.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2650.674

Steve, just give me two weeks to figure out this air bubble thing. There's no bigger maniac who's not in prison than Tom Cruise. Just think of him in bodies of water with spotters. And then popping up and going... How many with the air bubble?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2682.202

It remember like the video, the audio that came out, when Tom Cruise was explaining to the people on set how important what it is that he was doing is, like, remember that? Yeah, like on the set of, like, The Mummy or something? No, it wasn't from The Mummy. It was, I think, it was either from, it was recent.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2700.108

I think it was Mission. Yeah, it was one of the Missions. And he was like, we're trying to save movies here.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2704.549

Yeah. And people thought that that was going to be a clip that made people, like, not like Tom Cruise. No, people were like, yes.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2713.692

The best was when he broke his ankle jumping and then just kept running because he didn't want them to lose the scene. His fucking ankle was snapped. It was that guy, Kevin Ware, the Louisville guy. And he's just like, let me fucking drag my leg because I don't want to lose this shot. Cruz is nuts. There's nobody like him. So that's one. And then the other one.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2735.508

Top four blind guy scene of all time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2739.197

It's everything. I have a real, like, phobia-ic about eye stuff, just because, like, and... So I have two nominees, and I don't know what the third one is.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

274.039

It just seems like he's like, what I want to do is get into the gym and try this and try that and try this.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2751.121

The Bloodsport fight with Van Damme. When he died. When Chong Ling... that one. Uh huh. Scent of a woman dancing. Yeah. Scent of a woman dancing. That one. And there's probably one more. So this is three. I don't know what the fourth member of Mount Rushmore is for blind guys.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2778.321

Let us know in the comments what blind Mount Rushmore is.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2781.363

Craig, do you have any blind guy thoughts?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2788.849

We're still one short. Yeah. Anyone has any nominees?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2793.632

Oh, good comments. Great. Um, Next one I have is Cruz takes the precog to Dweezil Zappa's club. Yeah. I think I saw a van in one of the rooms. I rewound it. That's so funny. I thought I saw you in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

280.364

I do feel like this is the tail end of... Whatever crazy all-time apex he had, right? Probably tailing off around the mid-2000s a little bit. He's getting older. I think this is the most creative movie he made during this whole stretch, though. Even the way, like, the color correction, like the stuff my guy Janusz Kaminski did.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2806.415

What would you be doing if you could do anything in one of those clubs? Virtual what? I would be like virtual. I know everyone wants to say, oh, a van's going to be having a virtual orgy or something like that. But that's not what it would be. I would be, I would be, everybody thinks that I would be virtual LSU quarterback. Yeah. That's what I would be. I would be virtual LSU quarterback.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2827.031

All right, guys, we're going to go Y, dig, X, go, Z, post. No, this is O2.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2836.016

Yeah, that is true. Way more physical game back then.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2838.457

I would do a virtual hunt for an October rewatchables because I can't do that in real life. It's on the list.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2849.9

I really like Dweezil Zappa's club, but I like futuristic. Total Recall has this too, where they, it's like the one place that can get super fun in a sci-fi thing where it's like, well, there's going to be a nightclub or like an orgy place and they'll just, it's nuts. All right. Two more. Cruz has to kill Leo Crow. You still have a choice. Mike Bender? Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2871.927

Mike Binder? Binder. Mike Binder? Yeah. Or Bender, yeah, I'm not sure. I think it's Bender. I'm certain it's Max Von Cito, but I do not know about Mike Bender. He's the Mind of a Married Man guy?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Not a good show. Just not good. Not a good, not one of HBO's best efforts. But he's also, he's a writer-director.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2894.827

Oh, no, I love that movie. The one he did that was interesting was that one with Costner and Joan Allen. I thought that was pretty good.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2901.912

Whatever that movie was, where Joan Allen's a divorced lady with kids and falls for Kevin Costner. It's solid.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2908.276

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2909.977

What movie is that? Listen, I'm sorry I'm a Costner fan. Oh, there you go. Sorry I'm a fan of one of the great actors of the last 40 years. I fuck with him, too. I'm going to give a borderline, maybe could have toned back Agatha a tiny bit in this scene. In Leo Crow? Yeah. In the movie theater. I remember seeing this in the theater and my big nitpick was like, Agatha's just a bad hang.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2931.153

Well, she's a psychic who's been living in a pool of milk. So I get it. Yeah. I think she's got some big emotions.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

2971.751

last one Lamar Burgess gets caught this is basically the fugitive I don't know why we ran back the fugitive but we're doing all the same beats we have there's a banquet he's being celebrated he gets found out by our hero who's the fugitive and I wrote down is there a better time to spring the I know you did it move than when somebody's being honored at a banquet and there's just people in tuxedos that's probably the number one spot right yeah what else would you do I mean they can't do anything

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3001.261

So your most rewatchable is that 15-minute stretch?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3003.521

Yes, but can I throw two more in there? Just because I have some Dion Waiters nominees later and I would be remiss if I didn't highlight their scenes. I love the greenhouse. It's such a crazy gear shift. That scene freaks me out, but I'll allow it. Her improvising on set, kissing him, and that's Tom Cruise's real reaction because she didn't say, I'm going to kiss you on the lips here. Yeah. Great.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

301.755

And he told Janusz, I want this to be the ugliest movie I've ever made. Yeah, it's bleached out.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3026.805

And also just explains everything that's going on in the movie. And then... Just the Peter Stormar eye surgeon, you know, disgraced plastic surgeon who's like, remember me? You know, you put me away. And Miss Van Eck, you know, the Russian or the Swedish nurse that he has. Just really creepy and pure Philip K. Dick.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3046.721

The only one that is not mentioned is the first meetup between Colin Farrell and... Tom Cruise in the movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3056.931

Yeah, the feel-out where he rolls the ball and goes, hey, you caught that. Where there are two differing perspectives on pre-crime or clashing. Like, that's one of the best scenes in the movie. It's a good pew-pew moment for you there.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

306.119

It's just really distinct. There's a little tension in there when you watch the film between traditional Spielberg visuals and how this movie is probably supposed to look and supposed to feel. There's a version of this movie, if it's directed by David Fincher, Or someone like that with a little bit of a darker palette and a more clear aesthetic and narrative kind of thought about the milk.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3071.542

What the hell? What do you mean by that? No, just like, you went big picture for us. I like it. You pew-pewed us. I have the 15-minute stretch as well. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3083.571

But, That's about as good as it gets, man.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I gotta say, the ID spiders are fucking incredible. And the way they shoot, where you can see all these different kind of seedy apartments and rooms. And then how he tries to beat the spiders. He's afraid to go blind. You think he's gonna beat them and

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It says everything about the way the society is structured in that world where all these people living in this tenement are like, this is just a fact of life that I have to allow this fucking robotic spider to scam my retina while I'm in the middle of fighting with my wife for having sex.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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See? No banners. You sit in your seat and then these robotic spiders crawl out. But to that point though, they've traded that in order to have a society with, with no murders. So it's like even litigating, like what that Craig, what'd you have for most rewatchable scene?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Okay. What's the most 2002 thing about this movie? Still normal. Tom Cruise, no social media in the 50 year future of things.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3158.339

They didn't realize what was about to happen with phones. Yeah, also like the idea that it's like that the person is reading USA Today rather than like, you know.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I have a cutting edge virtual USA Today in 2002. Made sense. I got one too. Young Mustache Colin Farrell was the other one ahead. What do you have?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Physical media. His memories of his son aren't streaming. Nope. He has to get little discs out and put them in there. It's one of the things they got wrong.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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One last one, which I think is the winner. The TV show Cops being integrated in a 2054 movie scene. Cops is long gone. It made sense in 02, though.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I would just say probably the introduction slash warnings of government surveillance and overreach coming out of 9-11. I don't remember when the Patriot Act is exactly passed, but this is right around when it's like, are we sure we want to have unconditional surveillance powers? Like,

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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well the spider speaks of that yeah right the okay motherfucker award for the exact moment when this movie goes up a notch cruz gets grabbed by the precog oh or would you go oh i go him and neil mcdonough and him be like everybody runs and then steven spielberg stages an actual jetpack fight yeah if you were seeing the behind the scenes for that scene No. It's fucking mind-blowing.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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First of all, it's on wires, but it's all happening practically on a set. And Spielberg is basically like, It's like he's culturing. He's like, we're going to do this and then I'm going to come here. Tom, I need you for two seconds to say this. Cut. Okay, moving on. And he's just like breaking down.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's one of the coolest like behind the scenes five minute videos you can see because it's just like Spielberg with like basically no storyboard being like this. Okay, cut. Now I want you to do this. Tom, one more time. Thank you. Awesome. And it's like he just pieces this thing together in his head. It's amazing. You think Spielberg's a genius?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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No, I think to be able to see story and execute it to that level... I think he's an actual genius.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3286.794

Yeah, I agree. Because I think the word genius gets thrown around a lot. Okay. This would be a good podcast where we just decide if somebody's a genius or not each episode. I think to me it's a no-brainer. Maybe it'd be a two-minute podcast.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, no, I mean, I think that... Well, I guess the question would be, were they a genius? I mean, actually, the question would be not who is a genius, but it would be who isn't one.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because of all those high-level directors, some of them are probably just great workmen and understand film, but then some of them are able to do things and translate story and emotion in a way that is just innate in a way. They just understand what people need to see and need to feel.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's almost like the fantasy brain in your head you can see it and translate it as a director. And only, I think a few people could actually do that where they can just be like, I see this room and I storyboarded this before and that curtains get, and they just like, they're in some fucking alternate universe as they're in the real universe. Um, I have three Tom Cruise awards in a row for you.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's a lot darker. And that's a lot more intense. But you can look and see the Spielbergian notes throughout the movie. There's like little wacky parts that pull there. It's in some of the chases where they're really intense. And there's the part where he's the women are the contortionists.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Oh, the Tom Cruise award for most awkward moment. When someone kisses Tom Cruise, that goes to Dr. Iris kissing. Yeah. The Tom Cruise running award for best running in a movie. I think it's Tom Cruise, but I thought Pharoah had a nice little moment there with the skid. Yeah. So I don't know. Do you want to talk about this? That was a runoff. It was pretty good.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Pharoah, Tom gets it going. Because he comes around the corner? In the movie when Tom starts running, you go, man, Tom is the best running guy in a movie that we've seen. But then Pharoah comes right around and you go, Pharoah can run as well. He's a good athlete.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And then he did Miami Vice and he probably hasn't run since then.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3388.106

The only Tom Cruise would do this award could be telling Spielberg he's got the little drops of oxygen. Shaving his head at the end for... I don't really feel like... Well, they shaved his head because they put him in the prison thing and they have to put the halo on his head. But they could have bald capped him. He's like, no, actually shave it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And then Cruz's eyes actually being held back by those metal sticks, which seemed real. I think that's the winner.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Just thank God he didn't like, I want to replace my own eyeballs. He probably asked...

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's like, what if we actually replace my eyes? They're like, Tom, Tom, no. Steve, I've got a crazy idea. Crazy idea. There's these other eyeballs. What's aged the best?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All the noir Philip K. Dick elements. PKD loves a blind drug dealer. He loves a disgraced plastic surgeon. He loves a wheelchair-bound prison supervisor. All of these broken, damaged people are very big factors in his books. It was cool to see them show up in the movie in some way because Spielberg is usually a little bit more shiny happy.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The moving things thingy. Like him moving stuff around?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Okay. So Disclosure, man. Yeah. That aged really well. First of all, like it doesn't in Iron Man, but then like my Apple Vision Pro, which I'm back on. Oh. Oh, you bought the dip. I'm back on the Apple Vision Pro because they updated the NBA app on it. Fucking fantastic. Okay? Fantastic. Back on it. But, you know, I'm doing that. I'm moving stuff around and the whole deal. That aged really well.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I had Cruz using his hands to read pre-crime stuff.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But added, you know, he studied like Tai Chi or some sort of something to learn. He definitely had some sort of instructor for how to make the moves. I'm just going to read you what I wrote about Agatha. Samantha Morton as Agatha is so creepy and weird. It's a great performance. And I also kind of hate her in this movie. But I think it's a great performance. But she's an awesome performance.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find The Watch with CR himself, Chris Ryan. That's right, with Andy Greenwald as well. Where you can find Higher Learning.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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There's little parts where he pulls you out of being a little bit too dour about what's going on and reminds you that you're watching the Steven Spielberg movie.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But a rough hang in this movie. Intentionally. It has to be that way.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, yeah. I mean, she kind of jerks you out of the kinetic energy of the movie a little bit. And, I mean, she's the victim of the movie.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And so she has to, like, stop the momentum of everything that's happening and, like, humanize the movie a little bit. And I think you probably didn't want that. You just wanted your popcorn. Yeah.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's just, it's tough. It's tough character. When we get to casting, what if?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's an interesting conversation. So Danny says, how much time do we have after Cruz kidnaps Agatha? And a pre-crime officer says 51 minutes, 30 seconds. Steve Spielberg, our guy, that's exactly the amount of time until the end of the movie. Oh, he goes real time? He says that. I said people doing normal stuff in their room or kitchen when somebody suddenly crashes through it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Tom Cruise has the title in the movie, which you know I love.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I also love Adult Spielberg. This is a movie with sex, adultery, drug use, murder. It's still the Spielberg version of it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's got it. Howard Marks' wife in the beginning isn't riding anybody or anything. The woman in the apartment building is riding. I think he has a complicated relationship with this stuff. With what? Sex?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. One of the things I was wondering is, There's that whole new generation of directors that come in the mid-90s, right? That next class that's a little reminiscent of what he had in the 70s. PTA and Fincher, all these dudes kind of coming up. And this feels like the most Fincher-y type of movie that he could have made.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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You don't think he likes it? I think it makes him nervous. Sex makes him nervous? Yeah. You talk to him about it? I'll bring it up if I run into it.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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What do you got for Great Shot Gordo? I got two.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I love the scene when they are in the Leo Crow apartment building lobby and both of their heads are in the frame. And they both, you know, they've both like kind of like, it almost looks like Agatha is an extension of his consciousness. But the best shot is definitely the overhead of all the apartments being invaded by the spiders.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That is the best shot of the movie. There's a shot at the end where the movie reminds you that you're in Washington, D.C. Von Cito? Von Cito. Von Cito. I think. Is talking to Tom and the Washington Monuments in the back and like, you know where you are. But then I point out one. Like, this is the kind of stuff that Spielberg does. I'm going to show this to Chris. See this?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's the little bit of extra stuff. So that's the scene that's in where they're talking. And Neil McDonough's character, the camera pans back behind his head. And he, like, splits them. And visually, Spielberg just says, these are two guys on opposite sides. Opposite sides. And he uses a character in the movie to break them apart as they're facing each other.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Little stuff like that that throws you into the film.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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There's tons of video essays you can watch on YouTube that talk about this broadly. And then specifically with Minority Report is basically the way Spielberg will... do what other people usually do, like multiple camera setups and editing to shoot a conversation, right?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So if we were three of us talking, there would be a camera, camera, camera on me, and then a master shot, and he would cut between those angles. But what Spielberg can do in this movie is go into Bill. Now I'm going to pan back towards the LaCroix can, but then I'm going to whip pan over, and Chris is looking at Van, and I move slowly to Van. And it's like there's four shots in one shot.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We have to get like a, what are those called?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Those things you put over the cans? A beer cozy kind of thing? Yeah. We need like a ringer. Somebody should make us a Rewatchables beer cozy. Do you know what I love? I feel like LaCroix just gets like free advertising every episode. Let me tell you what I loved.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I do like LaCroix though. This is, I have to name this.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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What CR was just saying was this really brilliantly technical description. I had nothing to add. It was a great point.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And I really wonder if Fincher either inspired him or made him competitive to be like, oh, everyone thinks Fincher's a genius. I'm going to fucking out-Fincher him.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3771.38

we should do we should stop giving LaCroix well cause I cause I was listening to you talk and I felt like I was filming a LaCroix commercial and then I got so conscious about it I was literally enthralled I was enthralled too oh shit that's oh god Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award Best Needle Drop is Moon River in this Moon River I didn't hear one I had that theme song from Cops it is Chris or at least I heard that as well yeah when he's walking through the mall it's playing right that's right that's right

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Big Kahuna Burger Award, best use of food and drink. Blind Cruz eating a bad sandwich and eating gross milk. Fucking disgusting. Why is that stuff in there with like a nice healthy sandwich?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Because they're fucking with him, right? I always thought that they were fucking with him. I think they were fucking with him. Yeah.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's also like the idea that like he's not the first guy to be in this apartment blind waiting for his timer to go off. So it's like somebody else is in there.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for best character name. Lamar Burgess.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Pretty good. I have Agatha, Dash, and Arthur.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's 13th now in Todd McShay's draft. Lamar Burgess. Yeah. Good senior year as a receiver. Yeah.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3837.2

I was asking what position he plays.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3838.701

Lamar Burgess. How many white Lamar Burgesses would you think would be in the NFL draft? That's true.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3844.565

Yeah. Oh, big D tackle from Mike Selma.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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like he used to weigh 360 but now he's 325 he's got down for the draft he's firing let me tell you who i really love that nobody's talking about troy's lamar burgess this kid's a fucking animal yeah let's take a break and then we're going to come back with cr's flex categories have some healing to do after cr said i know sold this great point before sage steeled them

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I wonder also whether or not audiences had shown an openness to a certain level of grime, like a little bit more dirt, a little bit more smudge on the lens, like the room isn't tidy, people are a little bit more fucked up. It was definitely in the air in that 90s into the early 2000s turn, I think, cinematically.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All right, CR, what do you got? Flex category.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3876.042

I got Teddy KGB award for actor doing his own thing for Peter Stormar, the plastic surgeon.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Our guy. You know who that is. Peter Stormar? From Fargo? From... Where else? Oh, 8mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dino Velvet. Dino Velvet.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The Russian cosmonaut in Armageddon. Satan. We may have low-key done like six Peter Stormore movies by now.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3903.144

Should we do the That Guy, like what I did with the Basketball Hall of Fame Pyramid? Should we just do the That Guy Hall of Fame Pyramid with five levels? Yeah. Stormore, to me, is at least level four. He's way the fuck up there. He might even be level five. He makes...

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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every single movie that he's in better.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3918.896

You always notice him, but it's never a huge role.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's just so fascinating because he gives Tom Cruise anesthetic as soon as he walks in. He basically knocks him out. And then he just dances around Tom Cruise and chews scenery for five minutes. Has anybody ever done this to Tom Cruise before?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Where Tom Cruise has got to be like... He's in a scene with Joaquin Phoenix and Nick Cage just blowing them off the set. Yeah. I love that guy Butch's girlfriend weak link of the film I don't I don't really have one do you like Lara?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I thought Lara I thought it was going to be the Lara or the Tom Cruise wife this category shouldn't always be like the woman it's just the Lara character is not that dynamic I guess for me probably the weakest piece of the movie is Max just fucking up and saying the girl drowned yeah

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. This guy is so smart. He's fucking replacing pre-crime memories, and he's just seven steps ahead of everybody.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's recreating murders step by step.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And then all of a sudden, he's just like, yeah, the drowned girl. She's like, what do you mean? I never said she drowned. It just feels like a... Doesn't make any sense. That's probably my butch's girlfriend. What's aged the worst? No cell phones. Cruise jumping cars on the fake highway is the only part of this movie that feels CGI'd.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That I think if they do it in 25, they just have better technology, right? Futuristic misses. Those thin glass data slides you mentioned earlier, the physical media. I don't know. Feels like easy to shatter, easy to break.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That shit would be on the cloud, man.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's the best part of the movie and it's why people are like, I don't really want to make movies about cloud and iPhones because it's just like, I want to have the thing that we have to run with it.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But now we would just have the cloud. There's a stretch here with the long stretch with Dr. Iris right into the crazy eye doctor where nothing's happening for about 25 minutes and it's such an adrenaline rush before they bring you back down. It's a little long.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's definitely like time to go get popcorn. He's going down the hole there.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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When he gets into her and the fucking plants come alive and all that stuff. The plants coming alive just it seems like a different movie to me.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think on purpose though. I think it's supposed to be like he's now passed into the realm of like fantasy. Mysticism.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Internet, we're starting to be like, oh shit, this is going to be part of our lives for the rest of our lives now. Where is this going?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, exactly. Fox did a remake series in 2015 that I forgot about. Didn't last. Dr. Iris says the precogs abilities are the result of brain damage caused by parents being addicted to Neuron during pregnancy. Don't do Neuron when you're pregnant. So what's aged the worst for me? I care about your kids, even though Neuron's not an actual drug. Uh, what do you got for what stage the worst?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I didn't, uh, I just, I just can't handle eye stuff from, from clockwork or orange on when they started fucking with my number one.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. Eating gross shit. I just can't, when he eats, every time he eats the shit and he drinks, it can't physical media thing. And literally the, the, um, The CGI, when they're jumping around, that's like Star Wars prequel level, this is fake type of shit.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Unfortunately, O2 was right around... We had some stuff figured out, but other stuff... They were able to do The Matrix, so it's pretty good.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, and then the crucial... Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no. Go ahead. No. I mean, I'm saying like a little bit more of the dystopian stuff is starting to take over sci-fi. Yeah. You know, this is post... 9-11. Post 9-11. Yeah. Post The Matrix. So it's... You're... You're... I can't wait to... Hey, but that's a big part of this film. When I watch it, I'm like, hey, they got that right.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It looked better than it had ever looked. up to that point, but the jump between now and then like 2008 when Iron Man comes out. Or fucking Sinners.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's fucking crazy. Michael B. Jordan just playing two parts next to each other for two and a half hours. Yeah. The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting word. I know. That's an easy one. What do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Sagatha. I mean, not over. I mean, just it's a turning it up to fucking 14. I don't mind as much as you do, but like screaming, yelling.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's a borderline you could throw in the category. Oh, the Agatha overacting one? Yeah. When he's about to kill Mike Binder, and they do a couple ISO shots of her just screaming her fucking head off, it's like, okay, let's cut one back.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Ben, what do you have for a flex category?

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Best dick ever. Okay. So mine is always a list. And I want CR, our resident dickhead here, to... What are the best... Philip K. Dick movie adaptations. Oh. So I got Minority Report. I thought that was going to be the AVN award for a second. Jesus. Minority Report, Total Recall, Scanner Darkly, Blade Runner, and then I put the Adjustment Bureau on there because I love that movie.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I don't think so. There have been some animated series and series where it's riffing on themes from his works, but I think those are the big ones. I would put Blade Runner number one. Blade Runner number two. Give me a ranking. I would go Blade Runner, Total Recall, my... Probably Blade Runner, Minority Report, Total Recall, and then Scanner Darkly.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Even though Scanner Darkly in some ways is the most Philip K. Dick thing.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Interesting. No, sir. I think I agree with CR's list, but I think Total Recall is also the one. If I was trapped on a desert island and I only had one, I'd probably take that one.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. To me, that's the best one. Because you get the three-boob lady if you get the Puerto Rico. Yeah, it's the best. Actually, you know what? It's not the best one yet.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's the most entertaining rewatchable of all of them. But Blade Runner's the best one. Blade Runner's the best one.

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‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's like how Raging Bull is awesome, but you wouldn't want to watch Raging Bull a hundred times. Yeah, you'd rather watch Rocky or something, but yeah. Do you know that in 2006, somebody made a Jake LaMotta movie? because it was on cable. Are you serious? I've never heard of this before. And it was like Jake LaMotta and it was like something, I forget who the actor was.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4310.612

Can you imagine being like, you know what, we might be, might be time to re-explore Jake LaMotta.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4316.234

The balls on that, the balls on that fucking guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4320.015

Hey, the CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How does it take a word? Ben, do you have one? I do not. I have one. I'll do one for you. Precogs. The greatest professional sports gambling weapon ever created in a movie. Hands down. There's a whole subplot movie with precogs just basically making all these money for gamblers and then being on the run.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4342.802

If you're John Anderton, just make the run to Vegas with Agatha while you can.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4349.285

Or AC. The guy has access to the precogs. And look, the villain here is a villain. Kill someone. But he also kind of I mean, he's kind of got some points, right? He tries to stop murder. I wouldn't have tried to stop murder if I had the precogs.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

437.665

Yeah. This movie has some really interesting future.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4370.604

We playing the market. We doing all kinds of stuff. We running it up. That's true.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4381.283

Goal and a half. Plus 150. Put a nice visor on her.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

439.906

Oh, I can't wait to talk about that.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4396.215

Alright. Do you have a hottest take or not?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4399.538

This one is from the perspective of Howard Marks. Let's say you're Howard, right? Aren't you like... Why don't we just stop my wife from cheating? If you can see the whole crime, wouldn't it be better if Anderton came by and was just like, don't cheat on Howard. He's going to flip out if you do that. Just go through further back.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

441.227

To where they get a couple things right. But I'm saying maybe Spielberg and other people are looking at it as like the high concept sci-fi that you're looking at now is a little darker. Not that that didn't exist before, but people were actually going to it and craving it a little bit.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4419.537

Yeah, or just like, why is the precog only paying attention to the end result murder and not the pre-triggering event?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4428.266

Because if you're Howard, you're like, I never would have considered killing my wife unless she cheated on me. So if you could just go back in time, couldn't somebody be like, hey, we got to yank this guy who's going to cheat on me.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4440.777

So the pre-con really kind of fucks over Howard a little bit.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4443.84

Well, I mean, I understand that the ultimate crime is murder, right? Like, the people are going to cheat on each other. People are going to have feelings for one another. But it is kind of like, for that kind of crime of passion, it seems like if she hasn't cheated, he's like, oh, I thought maybe we could go to lunch together today.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4457.83

So you don't stop Rich Paul from saying that Chris Bosh wasn't really a big three. You go back further and stop LeBron James from hiring Rich Paul. That's your move. Then we don't have the Chris Bosh thing anyway. Yeah, exactly. Okay, I got you. Casting with Ifs. This was optioned in 1992 as the sequel to Total Recall with Schwarzenegger. Yep. And Caracol Productions, which we've talked about.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4482.678

A sequel? Caracol Pictures, which we've talked about on a couple of Kyle Brandt rewatchables. Fouled for bankruptcy. And there's a documentary about this whole thing. So it got worked into a different thing. Jan Dubon came in in 97. And that didn't work out. And then the biggest casting for this was Spielberg comes on, offers the role, the Colin Farrell role to Matt Damon.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4509.256

Offers Dr. Iris to Meryl Streep. Offers Lamar Burgess, 320-pound nose tackle, to Ian McKellen. offers Agatha to Cate Blanchett, and offers Lara to Jenna Elfman. And Streep declines. Damon's doing Ocean's Eleven. Everybody else falls through. McKellen's in The Two Towers.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4531.092

Javier Bardem then offered the Witwer role, the Colin Farrell role. He can't do it either. Did you see why he turned it down?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4537.354

He said he didn't feel like chasing Tom Cruise around for an entire movie. That's funny. Wow. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4542.715

And now he's going to be chasing Brad Pitt around in F1. Saw that trailer yesterday. Yeah. I'm in. You're way up on it. I'm in. It's Days of Thunder with F1 cars. I'm in. I can't tell what it's really about. I'm still going to go to the theater.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4557.598

It's about an older racer and a younger racer.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4559.782

It looks cool. They've never tried that. It looks cool, but I still haven't seen the thing that makes me go, oh, Jesus Christ, I got a CF1.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

456.5

I have seven genres happening all at the same time in this movie. It's a Spielberg movie. It's a Cruise movie. And I think CR is right. Cruise is essential to this, which we'll get into. It's a sci-fi futuristic thriller. It's a cop movie. It's a fugitive movie. It's like a psychic, how much do we know about the future? Do you believe in this shit movie? Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4566.906

Best That Guy Award. Obviously, it's going to be Dino Velvet from 8mm, unless you think Peter Stormor is his own guy. I think he's Peter Stormor.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4573.788

I think he's not always his own guy. He's in the Dion category. I had Patrick Kilpatrick, who is the guy standing next to Sean McDonough. Or Steve Harris, but I don't know if Steve Harris... Maybe.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4584.472

In movies. In movies, he might be. I had Steve Harris. You know who I have? Eric Gross is Eric Gross. But I think he's Eric Gross. He's Eric Gross to me. He's in Perfect Strangers.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4593.235

Perfect Strangers, star of one of my favorite movies. The experts.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4598.36

Oh, John Travolta and Kelly Preston?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

46.93

Yes, with Rachel Lindsay as well. And the Midnight Boys? Pew, pew.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4600.221

Fake John Travolta, Kelly Preston. Like, I'm telling you, you guys go watch the experts. The fake town in Russia that doesn't know that they're in Russia. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4611.647

I vote for Steve Harris. He's the black guy who works for Cruise.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4617.49

Really? Yeah. Why wasn't he in The Wire? That's...

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4623.268

I don't know that there's a rule that you have to cast.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4625.87

He couldn't have been like Don Barksdale, like his brother that comes in for one episode?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4630.413

Don Barksdale. That's Winters' brother, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4633.075

Dion Waiters. We have our guy Peter Stormer. With Dweezil Zappa? Tim Blake Nelson?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4640.236

Dr. Iris? I would say Lois Smith as Dr. Iris and also Tim Blake Nelson as Gideon.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4651.301

Yeah, it's an easy one right there, yeah. Oh yeah, Stormar. Yeah, you're right. Recasting Couch Director City, what do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4658.022

I think D.C. is a cool place to put this. I think it's like Boston. It's consistent. Yeah. Southie. Minority Report in Southie.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4666.548

I'm so close. I wanted this. I'm going to let you slide. Don't do it, man. I'm not going to bring it up. I like it in D.C. It feels like all the presidents, man. In New Orleans? If the movie's called Minority Report and it's in Boston, it would be a different movie. New Orleans? New Orleans would be good. Philly? You could do it in Philly.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4682.979

Running by the Liberty Bell, you know? Is this a Miami movie?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4691.753

I like the idea of an old city that has been redone in a futuristic way.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4696.174

The other place I was thinking was London. Chicago. But London's the obvious place to do it, but that's not in America. Yeah. Recasting for me... Can we test drive Jada Pinkett as Agatha?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4711.721

Can you give that a whirl? Cate Blanchett is like an incredible show.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4714.943

But Cate Blanchett's like, I don't know. She's like one of the best actresses the last 25 years.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4720.586

But in 02, she was like still making it up.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4722.467

Still coming up. So after what happened with, you know.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4726.989

Samantha Morton is also really good in a lot of stuff.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4729.13

I get it. I'm just like Jada Pinkett because she, I like when she has a shaved head anyway.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4733.313

I was about to say, you're going to get Chris fucked over 30 years before. Different Oscars.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4743.382

Portman's probably too young at that point.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4746.844

She's in her 20s. I mean, she's in Star Wars at that point where she's like, she's 22, 23.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4752.168

Can I uneasily test drive a casting suggestion for this to change the flavor of the movie a tiny bit? What about Halle Berry?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4761.675

Huh. In the precog. I think she's too, she's probably too on at this point.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4773.533

future half-assed inner research Cameron Diaz Cameron Crowe and Paul Thomas Anderson are on the subway uncredited in the Philip Dick novel John Anderton is a balding out of shape old man yeah

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4787.957

He also, at the end of, I think it will leave at the end of the novel, him and Lara get basically kicked off of Earth.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4795.741

Yeah, it's not a happy ending. Hold on, where did it go? It's like you're basically being transported to another planet as a punishment, and Witwer takes over, essentially.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4807.647

In the book, the precogs are intellectually disabled and deformed individuals. They decided that doesn't sound fun. Spielberg said he wanted to give the movie a noir feel and threw himself a film festival that included Asphalt Jungle, Key Largo, Maltese Falcon, and they decided to deliberately over-light the film and then bleach-bypass the negative with our guy Janusz.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

481.289

And it's a free will versus determination movie, which is probably like the biggest theme in the movie is how much can you control of what happens?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4832.614

The car factory scene is based on a never-shot sequence in North by Northwest that Hitchcock told Francois Truffaut about. So he took the inspiration for that. I mean, he's just fucking... He is hearing Jimmy in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4848.686

Do you know my Janusz connection? I do not. So my daughter's in like... Chris knows this. Elementary school. Yeah. And he's one of the other dads in my daughter's class. And one year, it was like second or third grade, he took all the pictures at like the end of the year thing. And it was Janusz Kaminski, multiple Oscar winner cinematography.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4870.71

So, you know, normally you have these things and it's just like a bunch of like people taking iPhones and it's a photo album. And this is like fucking... You could release this as a coffee table book. Just pictures of seven-year-old little girls blowing bubbles in the air. It's just fucking amazing. Anyway, simulators to The Fugitive.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

489.255

Yeah. Can I add two more things to that? Let's do it. I already have seven. I think it's his Hitchcock homage. So, so much Vertigo, North by Northwest stuff happening in this, especially North by Northwest. All the chases, all the man wrongly accused on the run stuff is right out of Hitchcock, some of Hitchcock's best movies.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4893.388

Richard Kimball, John Anderton, framed for crimes they didn't commit. Both recognized on the subway by another passenger. Both consulted a colleague to unravel a clue. Both pursued by a police officer and navigate through a crowded public place to try to lose them. Kimball dyes his hair. Anderton has his eyes replaced.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4920.408

discovered they were set up by a colleague that they had been talking about the whole time and trusted and then blow them up during a ceremony celebrating that colleague.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4929.811

You got Neuronin, you got Provasic. What are they taking in the fugitive? What's the drug? Provasic.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4936.033

Yeah. You'll have to excuse my friend, Dr. Richard Kimball.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4941.395

He's been sick. Is there a scene in this one that's parallel or something like the jumping off of the uh the jumping into the damn scene probably the fight the jetpack the jetpack jumping where he just goes yeah that's another similarity whatever you do you're not gonna catch me i'm willing to jump off of the thing or do whatever yeah

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4968.988

This is a borderline Sean Fennessey criteria orgasm, criteria and orgasm award, whatever we called that one. Criteria orgasm. Criteria orgasm. Cruise confronts Max at the end. He's wearing a dark hood. And it mirrors the opening of a 1957 movie called The Seventh Seal.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4987.226

Oh. Yeah. So there you go. Apex Mountain.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4992.911

I got one for you. What do you got? You ever heard of the made-up genre called Nokia Wave or Nokia Wave, depending on how you pronounce the Swedish phone company? You know about this? I don't. So it's basically an idea slash subgenre that was coined by a critic named David Rudnick. And it loosely spans from Goldeneye through the Bourne movies. So like 95 to like early 2000s.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5018.764

And it's all about like, it's like enemy of the state, It's like Matrix. It's stuff where it's like the technology is futuristic, but it's still tactile. So you were talking about like little floppy disks, but it was basically clear disks. People are still wearing earbuds, you know, like the phones are like almost there, but they're not super in the future.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5037.463

And everything is about paranoia and a state surveilling you. And basically this is like, it's this Ronin spy game, Mission Impossible, a bunch of these, but Minority Report is Apex Mountain for Nokia Wave.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5052.153

Do you think that would make me watch more cruises? No, that was great.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5060.021

He did it on purpose that time. That was great. No, you're right. This was a four-year run of inferior technology being presented as awesome technology.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5070.245

Yes, where it's like we can't find Jason Bourne because the internet is busy. The modem is not working.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5076.567

Almost like contemporary steampunk to where it's, you know what I mean?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5093.012

Yeah, because this is it. War of the Worlds.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5095.554

No, this is better than War of the Worlds. I love War of the Worlds, though. I think it's a real... Tom Cruise.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

51.74

Pew, pew. Oh, there you go. Pew, fucking pew. Pew, fucking pew, Bill. That's right. My name is Bill Simmons. We are going to do our 17th Tom Cruise movie on the rewatchables. He's like Barry Bonds in 2002. He's just lapping the field. A little bit of that. A classic. Minority Report is next.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

510.191

And then it's essentially a Philip K. Dick thing, which I don't think I really knew at the time because I hadn't really read a ton of his stuff in 02. But a lot of the side characters, a lot of the conception of the future of us being constantly surveilled, of us all being hooked up on our devices and all being mildly addicted to drugs is all out of Philip K. Dick. And he obviously wrote this.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5102.965

You're just mad because he's a Yankees fan in that movie. Throwing a baseball at his son's face. He just has to come out and say I had a torn rotator cuff, but I got to throw it. Because I threw the baseball for seven straight months before filming because I wanted to get it right. Shattered my rotator cuff.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5120.334

Spielbergian techno noir? Like between this and AI?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5124.397

Oh, that's good. I like this movie so much more than AI. I really didn't feel like AI worked. Not a lot of AI conversations lately. Although I guess the title is... Important movie, though.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5134.985

How about evil Max characters? Because this wasn't the most evil. CR knows what the most evil is. Strange Brew? No. He was the good Nazi in Victory. Oh, right. Yeah. The Nazis were all evil in victory. But Pele's bicycle kick was so good, he stood up and applauded it. But you know what? You're still fucking Nazis. You're a Nazi, yeah. Sorry, buddy. Samantha Morton? Apex Mountain? It's her time.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5163.819

Yeah, I actually think she's cooking right there. Dorchester's Neil McDonough, no way.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5170.184

No, his Apex Mountain's a 25-year Apex Mountain. He got a deep bag.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5174.545

25-year Apex Mountain. He got a deep bag. He got a deep bag of recognizable characters. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5181.666

When they, first year Yellowstone, I'm like, Neil's going to be in this. And then second year he is. He's in there. Precogs, definitely. Washington, D.C. movies, no. Precrime Departments? I don't remember seeing this in another movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5198.314

predictive crime yeah I don't think so Phil Dick movies we just said no we just said no yeah alright Cruise or Hank Scorsese or Spielberg this is the first time this has ever happened the double wow yeah what role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5219.472

I have him in the Colin Farrell role. It's an interesting idea of him playing Witwer, because it's a little bit more of a twerp, a little less hot, a little less like... The fight scene suffers, probably.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5228.078

The fight scene suffers, maybe the running and all of that. He wasn't known for... But he also was kind of sneaky, athletic, and people don't talk about it. He was a good ball player and all of that stuff. He never really got into that bag on screen, I guess, that much.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5244.15

He could have been the eye doctor. Oh, for sure. Yeah, he could have been out there.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5248.372

But I think he's the Dweezil Zappa if we're doing this again.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5251.153

He just comes in hot for five minutes. But in 2002?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5254.634

Yeah, he's just like doing a favor for Cruz. They're buddies. Craig's choice. Flex category. What do you got, Craig?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5273.404

See? This is the problem with his generation. See, I'm telling you. He's just like, I want to take Waymo.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5305.696

Think about what you give up, Craig.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5310.838

An ethically utilitarian generation. I'm telling you.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5317.301

Craig, I really enjoyed the take picking it's, um, swapping eyeballs. Let's like really talk about this. I know the technology is going to be better in 2054 than it is now. I don't know what century we're just going to be able to swap eyeballs. Where are the guys out there in an action scene three weeks later? Come on. Yeah. Like, come on.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5340.38

Like kidneys. I would, I get it, but that one is, uh, that one's a little crazy. Um, Cruz just stumbles into the exact drowning of Ann Lively in about 20 seconds from the precog thing.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

535.606

Are you a Phil Dick guy? I am a Phil Dick guy. Yeah, I actually went on a little Phil Dick run.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5356.124

I think it's the idea that the precogs are echoing that like they're trying to send a signal to him. Because that's her mother. She keeps saying.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5363.669

I know. She says to him, you can see. She wants him to see. And then Lamar accidentally saying the girl drowned.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5371.691

I'll add on to the Lamar pile on. I don't really feel like Lamar shooting himself in the heart is commensurate to the rest of the film's imagination. So when it's just the two of them together and then he's like... I'm like, come on. You guys had a jetpack fight an hour ago. I have two. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

539.989

recently yeah i got a i got a category later for for the for the dick lovers out there well so the things from that book are he has a pre-crime police department that apprehends criminals he has the precogs and it's in dc in 2054 which by the way van is now less than 30 years away

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5390.383

Who's in charge of updating the retina files? What do you mean? So Tom Cruise, his character, John Anderton... is now a fugitive and on the run and an outlaw, but his retinal still gets you into the police station.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5410.437

Oh, who's like, why didn't they turn off his security badge?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5412.657

Like you leave a place, like you fire, you get fired from a place. They discontinue your badge like right away. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5419.759

But all the way to the end of the movie, he can still get into the justice department is able to get in using his retinal file. Like he's,

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5427.68

who's in charge of one of the best pick and nits I've heard in a long time who's in charge of updating the retina files it should not still be giving you access cut your car off right away you can't get back in this is 2025 we would know this 2002 they didn't think of it I'm just saying like they get you out of it and then the other one is retina files the other one is this

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5450.12

So in the crime with the precog, the Ann Wiley, the crime, right? They come and get her murderer and then they just leave her there. for her to be killed. So they don't need her to come to the station and give a statement. Right.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5467.947

I think the idea is it's all staged, right? But I know what you mean where the cops are like, you're good. See you later.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5473.469

Yeah, the cops come get the guy and then that allows Burgess to then kill her while the cops are gone. There's not a cop that goes, hey, I know this was traumatic for you. They literally just leave her standing by the lake for him to come kill her. Well, in Craig's America, that's just how the cops are.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5489.758

Keep the pre-coxswain milk. I'm Craig Horvath and that's my 2054 stance.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5524.509

Craig, welcome to the world of dick, man.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5527.653

It's like a chicken or the egg. But that's the paradox. What did you just say? It's the whole idea. Welcome to the world of dick. You know, it's like all of this. It's like basically the whole idea.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5542.028

Colin Farrell's character is just like if we it's like here's the paradox is like if you know the ball is going to drop you catch it whatever that whole idea like the opening example in the film makes sense it's like this guy's theoretically going to kill his wife but he still has a choice but the Anderton thing doesn't make sense because he literally would have never known about it had Agatha not told him but that's the whole thing is she's trying to knock down the dominoes that will eventually lead to like her mother's murder being solved

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5568.649

It's like, Craig, it's like if Sacramento just takes Luka Doncic, number two.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5574.591

Then we don't even... Then Nico Harrison is just having a great year.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5577.832

Nico Harrison is just the boys with everybody and the Lakers are dying.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5582.514

I would say, Craig, this was a source story written under a tremendous influence of drugs. Sure. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5589.102

Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. Prestige TV probably should have worked with this.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5594.927

It feels like a show Apple would have made yesterday. I think it would just be more heady and less fun and chase-oriented. Probably less toys because they wouldn't have the budget.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

560.68

Yeah, you know what? I was thinking, are we closer to the actual imagining of the world in 2054? Or are we nowhere near?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5605.136

Although if they gave the Prestige morning show treatment money... to this, Apple? $20 million an episode?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5615.685

Yeah, it would just be like an advertisement for everything Apple's going to do in 10 years.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5618.968

Right, he's walking through the mall and it's just like, iPad!

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5622.25

I guess the question is like, when you do the prestige on this, do you do a one season limited that kind of stretches out Anderton's story? Or do you leave pre-crime around and do something based on that for like multiple seasons?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5636.28

Or would you do a prequel and it's like the first guy who gets caught by precogs? Because that guy probably was pretty salty.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5644.547

What about Law & Order Pre-Crime? Oh, shit. Just like the cheap version of this. Yeah. Just every episode. Not a lot of detective work. It's like, oh, yeah, see? It's basically just moving your hands around.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5655.758

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5666.048

In honor of the NBA playoffs, if DB was checking out a little Minority Report, we see you, Miss Agatha. You've been swimming in the photon milk for all this time, not just grinding tape, but making the tape for the pre-con police to act on. But now you're out here in your gap finest, straight off the rack, living your best life. Don't let anyone tell you that you need the twins to see the future.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5696.049

Stevie has really kind of taken on her own character now. It's not even really like a Doris Burke imitation anymore.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5701.533

I don't know. We'll see her in the playoffs. I don't know if that's far off. I had Ryan Rucco also in honor of the NBA playoffs.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5717.784

Just one Oscar who gets it. I could honestly go Kaminsky. I think this movie looks so cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think the vibe of it is so unique. It really stands out. Even if you're flicking channels on cable and you stumble across it, it just looks different.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5734.297

I like the idea, though, that this is hardly in the conversation of a Spielberg movie that missed out on an Oscar or should have won an Oscar, but people still study it. Do you know what I mean? It's a real testament.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

574.386

Do you feel disappointed? I feel like we're so far away from the cars and the traffic, how they manage that in here.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5746.926

No question. Probably unanswerable questions. Did Howard Marks' wife deserve to die? I mean, the fucking guy wasn't even in his car yet, and the next guy's coming over. I don't know. That guy's... Did Howard have some good ideas?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5760.03

Stalking the house, too, from across the street. Jesus. You can't even wait for five minutes?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5765.933

Creep affair guy. I don't know. You need to go listen to the T.K. Kirkland interview on Higher Learning. Let me tell you something. I said it was unanswerable. I will tell you this. No, but the answer is no. But I will say that that scene is really... That scene is diabolical because... he's trying to convince her to have sex in the bed.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5787.575

And she's like not wanting to do it. She's saving it. But yeah, but she's like, I don't want to do it in our bed, in the bed that we share. Even though the guy's already coming in the house, he's like, nah, nah, fuck your husband, fuck your husband. And then he's right there with the fucking scissors. But no, she didn't deserve to die, no.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

580.99

Yeah. We can't even build a train. We at least have Waymo.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5804.464

Has any actor... ever worn more masks in a movie than Tom Cruise. Oh, my God. I forgot about the paralytic that he shoots into his face. We need to talk about that. Yeah. He loves a mask. Loves it. I mean, how many, every Mission Impossible movie. Vanilla Sky. Vanilla Sky.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5820.861

This movie. It's got to be like two more. Is he wearing a mask in Tropic Thunder or is it just a lot of makeup? Oh, that's a good question.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5828.406

I think, maybe a prosthetics, maybe not a full mask, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5838.693

It's also such like a huge part where they're like, here's what you're going to do. You're going to shoot yourself this and it's like, this is not like actually that important.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

584.791

But yeah, we can't. We can't build half that stuff. I had to stop myself from legitimately following Waymos in the neighborhood. I would see a Waymo. They're freaky. Kalika goes, there's nobody inside of the Waymo. And I'm like, what the fuck?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5846.839

i have two really good ones so unless anyone has any other ones i don't all right first one what's the fan duel line on the crane fight with farrell and cruz right when right when farrell does his irish thing and it's like it's go time if that's real life on the crane who wins well i think it's like i'm going with the irish guy but it is kind of like amen thompson's first playoff series

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5870.322

We haven't seen Witwer in that kind of situation.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5873.344

I think he's like minus 310 over Cruz. He's got size on him. He's younger. And when he kisses the necklace, that tells me he's been there before. He's had some scraps.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5883.489

And by the way, he starts off fucking them up.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5887.631

Three to one. Three to one is a lot.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5892.856

So you think there'd be some cruise action? A little cruise action coming in late. Or plus 240? Yeah. Next one. Has Van ever typed in precog in a porn search? This might actually be answerable. Cog. No, I have it. Okay, good. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5913.493

I would want the pre-crime screen, but only so that I could watch Second Spectrum and grind tape. Look at this split action.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5925.982

I have the rarely seen not want for this. The eyeballs. Imagine having those. What are those? I have the eyeballs. I just need these to get into Spotify.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5941.487

The halos are cool. Coach Finstock, best life lesson. I'm going to go with careful chief. You dig up the past. All you get is dirty. I don't know. Some sort of lifeless. Okay.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5956.527

I like Everybody Runs. Yeah, Everybody Runs. That's good. Best double feature choice? I had Edge of Tomorrow. That's good.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5965.374

I had North by Northwest. Oh, I was going to say War of the Worlds just to get the combo. Yeah. Who won the movie? Steve? I'm going to go Steve. I'm going to go Steve, too. Unanimous.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

599.266

I see it all the time when I'm walking around. And every time I notice, I'm just like, there's nobody driving that car.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6009.681

Can I ask you something? Because we didn't talk about this. Is it a half hour too long? Yeah, for sure. Because I know that you're really sensitive about runtimes anyway, and this one definitely has like five extras. It drags in that middle.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6025.62

A two and a half hour blockbuster was uncommon back then.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6028.442

Yeah, I just knew Sinners. I love Sinners, but I knew I had to pee halfway at the hour mark because I was like, I know this is going to go an hour and a half longer.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

605.328

You just want to follow a Waymo for just like one block and see if the Waymo is up to the task. I know. I never see anybody riding in the back of the Waymo.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6070.08

Bad, bad, like, bad CGI, like, bad CGI effects... puts you in a position where you understand exactly what they're imagining. Middling CGI and effects makes it look like they couldn't do what they wanted to do.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6090.996

You know what's funny, though? I totally agree with Craig, but I also judge this because I know what they had and didn't have back then. Almost the same way you would watch NBA clips from the 70s and be like, oh yeah, they didn't know to shoot threes back then.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6105.307

But see, that's what he's saying, in my opinion. I'm not to speak for him because he just said it, but if you watch... if you watch total recall and you know, the things happening and he's in the stomach and all that can't be right. You get that. But then when you watch a movie from like 2002 or 2003, there are parts of the movie that look amazing. And then parts that look bad.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6127.723

And that to me takes you more out of it. Then something that looks bad pretty much throughout the entire way.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

613.31

Sometimes you want to throw the Waymo a curveball.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6134.127

I was watching a, I don't know if you guys know this movie, the thing. Last night? John Carpenter movie? Literally last night. You might have heard of it. Did you get it on 4K? Huh? Did you get it on 4K? No, it was just on cable. I do have it on 4K, though.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6149.999

But that's the thing. It's 1982. All of it feels completely genuine, even the alien whatever the fuck coming out of the guy's stomach. And in 2002, they probably tried to throw some technology at that that would make it seem less fake than it did in 1982. Yes.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

615.211

Just like run out in front of it. Does the Waymo know? I always think about that. But you also don't want to be the one guy that dies. Getting hit by Waymo. What happened to this guy? He was testing the Waymo and the Waymo said, fuck you.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6172.479

But there are parts of the movie that look fantastic. Like, all of the stuff moving around, the precog stuff, all of that stuff totally works. And then you'll get to something and you'll go, like,

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6183.161

hadn't quite mastered because they're probably producing this 2000 2001 yeah something like that they hadn't quite he shot pretty fast but yeah like it's it's it's i think it's after they certainly were doing it after 9-11 but i i think it was a quick shoot yeah i just don't love the early internet era like the early digital era on film i feel like it's kind of tough doesn't age well craig have you seen the thing yeah jack have you seen it i have huge inspiration for sinners

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6211.889

It's really good. You're showing a little leg. Are we going to do it?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6216.374

The Thing is just really good. It's one of the best movies. The testing the blood is just one of the most riveting scenes. But Sinners has a lot of Thing energy in it.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6228.991

Do you think that was an inspiration for Sinners?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6231.014

Probably. I mean, he would know. It's a whole thing. Jack, you can get to it. I haven't heard anybody say it, but I guess Jack has.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6238.827

No, Ryan Coogler has spoken about The Thing was one of the biggest inspirations for the film. I saw a video recently of Kurt Russell and Keith David, like, meeting up again for the first time in, like, 20-something years. And I was like, this is, like, I'm about to start crying. Like, this is really important.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6255.044

And you're like, oh, my God, brother, what's up? It's like, holy shit.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6258.805

Still not my favorite Carpenter, though.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6261.726

Yeah. I mean, Halloween, for God's sakes.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6265.928

That is a very good movie. Love that movie. You going, they live?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6269.869

They live. They Live is still the... It's a haunting... riveting, hyper-masculine masterpiece. Love that movie. Love it. I also like Vampires, which is a movie that nobody likes. I like Vampires.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6286.946

Yeah. Thanks to Craig. Thanks to Jack. Thanks to Laquan Cousy. Thanks to CR and Van. Great to see you guys, as always. Don't forget, you can watch this on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel or as a video podcast on Spotify. Or zoom right into your retina. See you next time.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

630.337

The problem with the Waymos from what I've seen walking around is they're better drivers than all the actual drivers.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

634.799

Yeah, but you need basically to hit a moment where there are more Waymos than regular drivers because otherwise they're just toddling along. I think right now they're more in the way than they are anything else. I agree. You're behind a Waymo. When a Waymo doesn't take that last... You can go on the left here. Go! Go!

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

655.311

But consider the Waymo, though. My great-grandfather passed away in 1987. If I could have a conversation with him and I could say, Big Papa... This would be the first thing you told them? I would be like, yo, I'm in a place right now where there are cars that drive on the street with no drivers and they drive people around. Yeah. He couldn't even imagine that. He was born in 1900.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

678.346

It's nuts to think that the Waymo is here and it's not that big of a deal.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

683.388

I have that every once in a while with my mom where she'll be like, what are you doing when I'm looking at my phone? And I'm like, well, I was looking at a cat and now I'm looking at British Parliament. She's like, what do you mean?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And I was just like, honestly, you just go like that, and then something else comes.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

721.261

um actually signed up early for waymo and was using it before we knew what was going on and we found out we were freaked out i was like there's nobody in the car it's just you and they can't go on the freeway yet they don't do freeway yeah right so just driving around in the neighborhoods he's like sometimes i get in the passenger seat sometimes i sit in the back seat there's nobody else in it

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

74.594

Chief Detective John Anderton set up the perfect crime force. People trust you, John. But now... I have a warrant in my pocket that says murder. Seems you've been left out of the loop, John. He has to run from it. He set me up! On June 21st. You can't hide. It's gonna be an entire area. Read anything with eyes and a heartbeat. So get ready to run. Tom Cruise. Steven Spielberg.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

742.708

But apparently he said some people are getting busy in the Waymo. Obviously. And you immediately lose your Waymo pass.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

750.814

If you're in the Waymo, the first thing you're going to think is, yo, this is the fuck train. Get on with it. But they're watching you in the Waymo. The Waymo sex tapes are going to be so crazy.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

761.202

Whoever hacks into the Waymo sex tapes, it's going to be... Have you seen some of the Waymo attacks where people have destroyed Waymos or tagged them or tried to surf on top of them and stuff? Oh, yeah. It's when the real repo man of LA comes out.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think it's going to be a big summer for people torturing Waymos. Anyway, back to... Back to Minority Report. Is that a prediction? Prediction. Coming up next. I'll tell you why Waymo is getting tagged up. Spielberg was really, really passionate about figuring out 2054. So I'll do some of the research stuff now.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

801.08

Consulted scientists, invited 15 experts to Santa Monica for a three-day think tank where they talked about... whatever the future is going to be with architects. Douglas Copeland from Gen X was there, the guy who wrote that. Computer scientists, all kinds of people. They made a 2054 Bible, which was an 80-page guide.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

823.826

That had all the aspects of their future world. It exactly should be a PDF or an Apple book. And then he said to Roger Ebert, I wanted all the toys to come true someday. I want there to be a transportation system that doesn't emit toxins into the atmosphere and a newspaper that updates itself. The internet is watching us now. If they want to, they can see what sites you visit.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

847.938

In the future, television will be watching us and customizing itself to what it knows about us. The thrilling thing is that will make us feel like we're part of the medium. The scary thing is we'll lose our right to privacy and ad will appear in the air around us talking directly to us. All that shit is fucking happening. Yeah. Yeah. Like he said this in 2002 and he was dead on.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Here's the best part about what he did though. Does all this research. He imagines the world. He figures all this stuff out with scientists. He has a Bible, but within the realm of the movie, it all happens as part of the action. They never stop and say, you know, we invented self-driving cars in 2034 and they became perfected in 2041. And this, you know, they don't even have toxins.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

889.51

I didn't even think that they didn't have toxins. It didn't even occur to me until you said that. But I was thinking about when, when Anderton in this movie first, you know, is first on the run and he's walking through the mall and all the ads are starting to pop at him. That's the first time you see the curated, you know, personalized advertising stuff. It's five seconds, but you're like, oh,

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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holy shit, what is going on in the future? What is going on in this world? Now, it's very different to watch this movie in 2025 and be like what you're saying within touching distance of all of this stuff basically being true, but honestly, none of the good stuff that seems to come out of Minority Report. Do you know what I mean?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The movie is like, one of the best parts of the movie is the world building that it does, right? It does it all very softly, but very definitely. Like, he's walking through there and you realize, oh, there's nowhere he can go and not be recognized. How is he going to get around that?

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And then that sets up, to me, the most disgusting, but also the most fascinating scene in the movie where, obviously, when he gets his eyes replaced, which is just... That's Spielberg just going like, you know me for making kids fly on bicycles. How much can I disgust you and disturb you in one sequence? But it all happens seamlessly.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

971.73

There's never a point where the movie seems like there's a specific point that it's trying to make to you.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I like that they use DC, and he talks about this, where... Sometimes in the futuristic movies, it just has no link to what things look like now. So they use DC and they still have a lot of the same landmarks in DC, but it's just kind of a twisted futuristic version of it, which I thought was smart. The stuff that I thought worked and tell me if I left anything out.

The Rewatchables

‘Minority Report’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

997.079

For futuristic stuff, that just was cool. The police helicopters. Yeah. The little... Yeah. I feel like we might have those 29 years from now. The eye recognition, that's already happening. You could walk into... That's clear. Yeah, that's clear. That's coming into a Clipper game. That's just staring in and they know you are. They make you scan your retinas to watch the Clippers?

The Rewatchables

A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

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Hey, it's Bill Simmons. If you want to see the Bill Simmons podcast live in Austin, Texas on Wednesday, February 19th at the Paramount Theater, you can. You can buy tickets at theringer.com slash events.

The Rewatchables

A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

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Craig. Jeff. Drink the coffee. Eddie and the Cruisers needs to come back. Tubi. You greedy motherfuckers. You're making so much money right now. And don't think we haven't noticed. Rewatchable's movies are on your carousel.

The Rewatchables

A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

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Oh, you think you're better than us, Tubi. Just put Eddie and the Cruisers on there or else we're declaring war.

The Rewatchables

A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

1038.526

But what's your one you want to do now, but you're scared nobody will listen? I mean, you've certainly sent me a couple. Why can't you just know on top of your head? Pre-vaccine, you would have been able to come up with it.

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1072.13

Yeah, so like Carlito's Way is too big.

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1077.053

So what movie have you always wanted to do and are scared nobody would listen? But you might do it anyway. I want to do Gymkata at some point. What's that? It might be a me and Kyle Branter. Jim Cotta? Yeah. I'm not even going to tell you what it's about. Give me the five word summary. So it's after the 84 Olympics. It's Kurt Thomas, this gymnast that won a gold medal.

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1104.096

And they kind of make it, it's an action movie. He goes to some country and he's got to rescue somebody. But during the movie, the action scenes, there's somehow gymnastics in them. So there's like a pommel horse where he fights a guy, but he swings in the pommel horse. I can't even describe how awful this movie is. And I was thinking Jim Cotta might be mine. All right, next one.

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1124.366

This one's for UCR. It's from Bobby Sleeth, 2E's. I listened to the There Will Be Blood episode and laughed my fucking ass off when CR did the Jackson mainline from Star Is Born in Daniel Plainview's voice.

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1137.64

I'd like to have another look at your face, please.

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1146.883

Therefore, I'd like to nominate Daniel Plainview as consideration for Would This Movie Be Better With category. and suggest that Wayne Jenkins send some of the other candidates away for a very long time. Yeah, well, so— I love adding Daniel Plainview to that. That's a great idea.

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117.972

I'm going to go through these.

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1174.394

Yeah. Do you feel like you have some Plainview in you in 2025? Sure, yeah. All right, so we'll add him. Yeah. What else are you working on at home? There's another one coming up that's even better than this. Jerry Jones?

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1194.881

A sequel question.

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1202.543

Yeah. When that happened... At what point during the scene did you realize it was fucking awesome? It took about 40 seconds for me, and then I was like, wow. When he got a little misty. Yeah, I was like, wow.

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1225.909

Yeah. I did. I asked Ham, and Ham said there was some editing.

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123.194

It's all kinds of things. Yeah. Some constructive feedback. So I think I organized this correctly. We're going to go through them. I'll try to stop after each question. First one, a new category idea from Matthew B., the Chris Ryan Award. Would this movie be better if a main character smoked?

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1231.352

I think Ham felt upstaged.

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1247.268

A sequel question from Stephen McDonald. With Den of Thieves 2 out now and Heat 2 being worked on, have you asked Affleck what the town 2 would look like? The answer is yes. I bring it up probably every time I've ever talked to him. He suggests... Does Affleck suggest? No, this is the emailer.

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1266.166

Would Shine, who has strong gem traits, be all grown up running a crew and tracking down Dougie who may or may not be Shine's pop? That's a possibility. Would they be in conflict or would Doug come out of retirement to mentor her both? Or is there a whole new storyline with Shine and Krista out of the picture? My feeling is, so Doug ends up in Florida, right? Florida Keys, right? He's checked out.

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1288.9

He's got money. I think Shine has grown up And is involved in Charlestown again. And somehow somebody's in danger. How old is Shine in the movie? Shine's a little kid. She's like 20 now. Okay. Shine would be 20 and maybe her and her boyfriend now are running Charlestown. And somehow Doug, somebody in Doug's life is in danger.

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1311.371

Right? Yeah. And he has to go back and save. So you wanted to go back to Boston.

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1318.305

Well, that could be the other way it goes, is Shine and her boyfriend, who's basically like Gary Oldman in True Romance.

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1326.332

She's like, we got to get our revenge in the Florida Keys. And then it becomes this Florida Keys crossing the town. Yeah. They could go down and get some mojitos. A little running scared. Right. Yeah. Here's the thing. I think the town has to happen. I think there has to be a heist. And I think it has to be in Boston.

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1348.092

Beyond Fenway Park? Yeah. Yeah, the Boston Garden's gone. Not like Fenway. No. I don't think so. Maybe they could rob Harvard. Oh, yeah. It's a Goodwill hunting cross. Yeah, yeah. These fucking spoiled brats. Rich kids going to Harvard. Get that money back. Rob Harvard. What are you going to rob? I don't know. Important documents.

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1395.077

Shine shows up. And Doug is like, I'll do one last job for you. Shine shows up. It seems good initially. How'd you find me? We have a how'd you find me scene. Then we have, I'm just drifting around, blah, blah, blah. Do you bring Blake Lively back? Oh, yes. We absolutely bring Blake Lively back. Is she allowed to work still? Sure. Okay. Yeah, she's back. I think. Yeah. Right?

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141.668

It's a good idea. So I've been thinking a lot big picture about the categories because we had a bunch from the last thing too. And maybe the move is going forward where it's like, let's say you and I are hosting. Yeah. I have a spot. Maybe we get rid of like Big Kahuna Burger or something like that. And I have a spot where it's like, you can take any of the extra categories you want. Right? Yeah.

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1426.361

This is it. This is how we heal the losses. We bring all the five families together. Baldoni is the drug lord in Florida Keys. I will say, I think the Florida Keys is one of the great underrated movie TV locations.

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1443.332

Oh, yeah. What was the TV show we liked on Netflix? Bloodline? Bloodsport? Bloodline. That was set in the Keys. I watched that pre-vaccine. Was that with Kyle Chandler? Kyle Chandler, yeah. Pre-vaccine.

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1456.363

running back you just did like the other day you did like here are the last 25 years of NBA history you're like oh I can't remember Baldoni is in this Bloodline had the guy Mendelsohn who ended up in Ben Mendelsohn yeah in Ozark uh huh it had our guy Kyle Chandler Ben Mendelsohn's not in Ozark wasn't he in Ozark he was season 3 season oh maybe he wasn't no I'll get on it who was the brother who was Laura Linney's brother in Ozark that wasn't Ben Mendelsohn Tom Pelfrey oh yeah you're right I'm mixing up my character actors I love

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1487.366

I like the keys. New category from Jordan G. How about a best call-out? Or what I like to call the Lieutenant Weinberg Award for a character unnecessarily calling someone out. What did Colonel Jessup have against Lieutenant Weinberg? Well...

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1504.395

for example in old school when Will Ferrell goes streaking he says come on Snoopaloop or in Superbad when Jonah Hill calls out Dave Franco and Jim Soccer for pissing himself as a kid who says no to this category you you editorial director Ryan I'm not against it. We can throw it into the possibles. I'm going to keep an eye out for it. I don't know how many movies have this.

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1540.895

And you're just like, whoa, this guy was just getting coffee a second ago. So maybe it's like the Lieutenant Weinberg drive-by shooting award for most unexpected drive-by shooting of somebody else in the movie. Yeah. All right. I don't mind that one. This is a good one. We're not going to be able to give it out that often. It's a new category from Jake Oakman. Some interesting names.

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1561.734

The Jules Winfield That Guy Graduation Award. When a that guy gal so owns the world that they go from becoming that guy to an actual name.

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1579.719

Great one. So he says, this is named after the greatest, that guy graduation in history. when Sam Jackson played Jules and went from that guy from Goodfellas or Jurassic Park to Samuel motherfucking L motherfucking Jackson. Other examples he had, Bradley Cooper in The Hangover, Glenn Powell on Top Gun Maverick.

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1603.283

Is there a graduation day in this film? So I thought, then Boogie Nights had two. Wahlberg? Cheadle? No, it had John C. Reilly and Philip Seymour Hoffman.

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1612.869

I think before and after, I didn't, I knew John C. Reilly, but I didn't. And then after that, I was like, John C. Reilly, I love that guy. Yeah. So, but Sam is the best one. So I'm going to keep an eye on this one too. I like the graduation concept. Uh, Just a fact from Todd A. in Dublin, Ohio. Love the rewatchables. Big fan of All Things The Ringer.

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163.45

So if it's like... In a flex position. Yeah, it's a flex spot. Maybe there's two flex spots in the pod and then we have like 20 possibles. And obviously, what's aged the best? Dion Waiters. All those stay in. But then when we talk about like... How many of these categories are related to smoking of the flex? Well... That's tough because the answer is always yes for that category. Well, yeah.

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1632.969

I can't believe you guys can spend so much time on the woman rounders and not cover the fact that Gretchen Moll's real-life husband, Todd Williams, used to be married to Fonky Jansen. The guy pulled off the real-life reverse Mike McD. Didn't know that. Didn't come up with the half-assed research.

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1656.496

This is really good. New category from Rob Shire. The Steven Seagal hard to kill award for did the sex scene in the movie need a better intimacy coordinator? Yeah.

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1672.641

I just like having a Steven Seagal category. Remember when you didn't know who he was and then we brought him into your life? Yeah. And it was one of the best things we ever did?

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1689.338

Good move. Way to go, Sean Baker. Category idea from Mark in Ottawa. This didn't quite get there, but I wanted to hit it. For movies that have a huge twist, rate any movie's crazy unexpected twist. And then he said, I actually thought of this when listening to the Sixth Sense podcast, which is clearly a 10 out of 10 for a twist. Psycho's 10 out of 10. Darth Vader being Luke's dad.

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1714.116

The Matrix, 9 out of 10. Humans are just batteries. Fight Club, 8 out of 10. You could also have fun when the intended surprise twist is blatantly obvious. Oregon still being alive in the two towers was a one out of ten. I don't know what that means. Aragorn. Aragorn? Yeah. Lord of the Rings. So that's a one out of ten twist?

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1736.478

So next time we do a movie with a twist, I think maybe we bring in the scale.

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1748.986

But then, this is the end of the email. Leave period, Bill. Getting into Tolkien would be amazing. I've also got a related entertaining story about another plot twist movie, Star Trek, The Wrath of Khan. My Trekkie buddies and I went opening night. The 7 p.m. show sold out, so we just waited in line for the 9.30. When the 7 p.m. show lets out, one of the guys yells out, Spock dies at the end.

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1771.719

Parentheses, personally, I'd rate this an 8 out of 10. Some large guy who was in line next to us for the 9.30 steps out of line, punches the guy out, and then calmly walks back into our line. Moral of the story, don't mess with the Trekkies. That would have been an amazing thing to see in person.

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182.744

Matthew B. had it. Dan White suggested the Sean Penn I brought my own pack award for excellence in on-screen smoking. Yeah. Is Sean Penn the right person for that or would you go Jimmy Conway?

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1851.409

Why did he do that? That's so weird.

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1855.994

I told this story in the usual suspect spot. I told the story when Jacko made me mad and I ruined Usual Suspects for him. That was the proudest I've ever been. He was being a dick. I was like, Kevin Spacey. There's nothing worse than spoiling a movie for somebody. Category suggestion from George in the UK. The Forrest Gump Premature Ejaculation Award. What do you think this is?

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1881.997

A movie ended too quickly? Yeah.

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1906.115

Yeah. Yeah. Who, who did that in a movie? I was going to say Bradley Cooper in Limitless. Oh, it's the Dirk Diggler. Yes. Jack. Yeah. I can do it again. Yeah. Yeah. All right. A request from Michael Broussard. I love your podcast on the rewatchables. I'm 44. Enjoy listening to you guys talk about films that I love. I've been waiting a long time for you to do The Hunt for Red October.

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1931.735

Many fans and I consider this an important film to cover. As it was masterfully done with an outstanding cast, please consider this movie for us raging fans. One of my favorite films. So this is just a request, no question.

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1944.45

There's a reason we haven't done it yet. Chris knows the reason. Because we're going to go to war with Russia and we're waiting for the right peg. I told you to watch Inside Moves and do Hunt for Red October. You didn't fucking watch it. All of 2024. This guy, Michael Broussard, sitting there waiting for us to do Hunt for Red October.

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1975.04

But just so you know.

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1978.403

The greedy overlords of Tubi. I will put it on. And selfish Chris Ryan. And meanwhile, Inside Moves on Tubi, at least for now. I'm going to put it up on Letterboxd. You'll see it when I watch Inside Moves. It's going to be this weekend. You know what? I won't see it because I'm not on Letterboxd.

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2001.062

Theme month suggested from Logan Van Winkle. These names are like nuts. It's because they're all from you.

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2010.689

So this is an interesting theme month. Rotten rewatchables. A month of rewatchables that deserve better on Rotten Tomatoes and currently hold a score of 50% or less. Suggestions. Billy Madison, Ace Ventura, Rat Race.

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2027.538

Did we do some sort of inverted month or something like that? No, I used to do the Rotten Tomatoes scores before Raj. And Fantasy would get super upset about it.

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2053.114

Is that possible? Probably. Yeah, we're a couple years away. I don't mind the idea of Rotten Month. I'd have to look to see what movies. There's been, definitely been some movies.

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2066.788

A decent amount, I bet. Do we need like a, like a Billy, who's the guy in Moneyball? Billy Bean's assistant? Paul D. Potesta. No, but the fake, the fake composite character. Yeah, Jonah Hill's fake character. We need like a Jonah Hill for the rewatch. A stats guy? Advanced analytics? Yeah, just like an advanced analytics department.

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208.001

Well, I remember when he came to our old studio to do the BS pod with me. and it was like a Sunday 1 o'clock, and he stunk a cigarette stand, and I was like, I really admire this guy. This guy is on brand at all times. So you're okay with the Sean Penn, I brought my own pack?

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2091.627

Well, the most disliked movie we've ever done was Country Strong. People are still upset. But we did that for your wife, Liz Kelly. The movie's not that bad. People need to relax. People can fuck off. Category idea from Connor Cussin. A suggestion for a new category is When Would I Have Died? You're the main character or member of a team crew.

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21.684

All right, I'm not sure if this is the first Rewatchables mailbag. Have we ever done this before?

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2110.557

At what point in the movie do you think you actually would have died? Example in Die Hard, Carl's brother kills me in five seconds.

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2116.421

Oh, I like this one.

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2134.914

So the boulder just gets you.

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2155.644

What about you? This is a good category. Well, I was thinking about Castaway. Uh-huh. How long I would have toughed it out on the island. Yeah, not knowing what was happening with sports. Forget about family. Just be like, fuck, what's going on in the NBA playoffs right now? It's April 19th. I wonder who's in round one.

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2179.438

Yeah, I think I would have probably attempted what he did with the raft trying to get over way sooner. I'm probably dead within a year. Um, Amity Vihara was another one. I was thinking I, I, I probably would have stayed in the house too late. Yeah. I mean, you're currently doing it, right? Well, no, we're good. We have a good relationship with the ghost right now. Yeah, it's okay.

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2198.737

It's the best it's been.

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2221.749

I was thinking, I was saying to my wife, because I told her about this category, because I can't see unless I have contacts or glasses. I was thinking basically everything before 1920, I'm gone. Oh, like you couldn't do... I just can't. Unforgiven. You're just like... Yeah, I'm just... I'm a blind guy. I'm killed in the saloon. I'm like, what's going on? Is that Will Penny?

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2239.556

Oh, that's just drunk Billy. He can't see. I'm just drunk and blind.

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2253.822

This goes to what we talked about earlier. A different host selects the movie of their choice. Co-host. Each week could be a specific selection of one of the rotating hosts other than Mr. Bill Simmons. Bill has no veto power during this month. I was thinking the theme could be referred to as Much to Bill's Chagrin.

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229.851

As you know, this is an obsession of ours, and especially mine. I always look for it, and when I watch the... Usually it's actors smoking. I always wonder, like, are they smoking the fake ones? I was wondering if Billy Bob's smoking real cigarettes. In Landman. I was thinking about that in the season finale.

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2302.261

No, I'd have to watch it.

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2306.205

Oh, good idea. Right. Yeah. So it's Chris or Sean. Yeah.

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2318.246

So basically, if it's your movie, you have to host the pod.

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2336.246

Yeah, but it would be, I mean, what was the twin? Twin Towers. Twin Towers, that one.

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2343.893

Two towers.

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2346.154

Would I have to see the first one before the second one?

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2352.7

So maybe it's like no sequels? Yeah, that's good. No sequels. So you do like some sort of UK crime thing.

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2376.974

I'm like the fourth co-host. And occasionally I have a couple points. Right. But the point is not to pick... Most of the time I'm just like, oh, man.

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2384.952

this fucking crime drama in the UK that's like when you invite me on to do I think I was I came on with you guys to do Alive right didn't I do that movie with you guys yeah yeah it'll be like that I hadn't seen it before that movie changed your life it did altruistic cannibalism another theme month idea from Mitchell Moore who says thank you for the rewatchables and all the laughs and insights you provide each week we really appreciate all the emails by the way my suggestion for a new category is unwatchables month

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2412.554

The group of movies you've mentioned multiple times that you know don't work, but you can't help watching. The list is as follows. Bugsy, Indian Summer, Another 48 Hours, Angel Heart. I really resented that he didn't do Angel Heart.

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2431.192

I don't love Bugsy, but I don't think it's... It's basically the flawed rewatchables concept. Yeah, yeah. But I think we should probably bring that back in 2025.

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2443.349

We have that. Such a good idea.

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2447.03

Another theme month idea from Amy Fleischer. She's calling it, Shit Goes Sideways Very Quickly. Adventures in Babysitting. Empire Records. Go. Don't Tell Mom the Babysitter's Dead. I'm throwing in Long Kiss Goodnight. It's like this too. But that's Shit Goes Sideways.

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2465.938

Yeah. Yeah. decent idea. So this is from Logan in Hawaii. He says, Aloha rewatchables. His category ideas. How would Van Lathan get out of this one? It was a great impromptu moment during den of thieves, the redent of thieves. When Chris Ryan asked Van Lathan, how he'd excuse himself out of an accidental text. Mr. Lathan jr's response was very entertaining. It would be a great, great addition.

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2490.914

Should opportunity allow in a given rewatch and,

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2513.847

uh probably just to be like what do you want the cops were searching the house did you want to go away for like federal drug possession the move is she should probably just leave yeah how good would you be at flushing cocaine down the toilet what is the best way to dispose of it like to disappoint they always shake it and then the cocaine just gets everywhere you really gotta like it's more about how you open the bag and no one's ever flushing cocaine down the toilet in a patient way

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2543.737

Would the toilet really flush that well with all the cocaine in it?

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255.658

Because they had, do you watch Landman?

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2555.966

I'm like, is that thing going to flush? But, like, two kilos of cocaine just in ten flushes? It was like, I don't know. Greg, why don't you go get us a kilo of cocaine? Get us some fake coke. I need 24 hours. Question from Juergen Anderson. Two S's. Hi, have a question for you. Who is Diane Waiters? Do you think Juergen's from the States?

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257.699

They had a gasoline scene in the season finale. I won't spoil it, but he's covered in gasoline. And then somebody offers him a cigarette. He's covered in gasoline? Yeah, he's still covered in gasoline. Be really careful where you ash. Be careful. He's like, I'm already, whatever. And he just starts smoking. So then Dan White also suggests, conversely,

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2582.702

I do not. Okay. This got me thinking, though. We should probably explain who Diane Waiters is. Did he say Diane? Yeah, he said Diane Waiters. That's fair. Because Dan Waiters now has not played for how many years?

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2623.522

I'm only good in this system, like system QBs.

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2632.827

Like John Michael Higgins in the Christopher Guest movies. The Sam Darnold reward is really interesting. Is that for the movie or a character?

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2646.482

But Sam Darnold's a different one. That's like you were doing good for a while and then the wheels came off.

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2663.955

Anyway, DM Waiters, he played 418 NBA games. He was a lottery pick for Cleveland. He was 2013 draft. I think it was the fourth or fifth pick.

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2674.239

No, he spent... Yeah, he was at Syracuse. He peaked at 15.9 a game on a crappy 2014 Cavs team before LeBron came back. Bounced around, went to OKC Miami, finished with the Lakers. But the reason we named the heat check after him was because sometimes he would just come in and make everything. The microwave. He'd come in in like three minutes. He would have 10 points.

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2699.65

So the idea of Dion Waiters was better than Dion Waiters because most of the time he would come in and miss a couple threes. Then every once in a while, Dion Waiters heat check would happen. So I guess the question is, do we dump Dion Waiters for a more modern heat check guy?

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27.169

Oh, that's right. We did. But we refreshed them.

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2728.62

I mean, so Cam Thomas is one. But I don't know what his shelf life is going to be. Peyton Pritchard's a good one these days because Peyton Pritchard's either three points or 28.

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274.807

You have the Sean Penn I Brought My Own Pack Award. The Tom Cruise Which End Do I Light Award for terrible on-screen smoking. I like both of those, so I think maybe we just keep it in mind. That's what I really want to do with the pod going forward. It's like conditional categories depending on... Where we are.

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2743.466

I don't know. The Dion, though, it feels like we're kind of stuck with it.

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2751.651

Yeah. All right. I think I agree.

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2761.018

Here's a heat question from Harley. I don't know if Harley's last name or first name. How many houses does Neil McCauley have and where are they? So he writes down, the house with no furniture where Chris sleeps is clearly modern, sleek, and by the water, maybe Malibu. Yeah, it's Malibu Colony. When he meets Edie at the cafe, he says he lives up here. So maybe that's Hollywood Hills.

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2782.376

They go to the house, stand on the balcony, great view. Seems too expensive to be a rental. Also well furnished. Then he leaves her that morning. So was he leaving her alone at his house? Was that her rental or his? Chris Ryan, I gave you a heads up on this question. So what's the real estate in here?

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2839.195

So what part of the hills do we think that's in? i like thought maybe beachwood yeah or like kind of like that area okay and then where do we think uh the the guy who fucks him over and then he shoots him through the tv when he's watching a hockey game what's that guy's name oh yeah van zant yeah van zant where was his house because he's climbing up a canyon on that one that

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2864.031

So we only think one house for Neil. Yeah. Probably renting. Yeah. Probably rents a year at a time.

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2878.462

Definitely. What's a burner room? Raheem has a burner room. He talks about it in Vegas. He has a burner room. It's this hotel room and then a burner room.

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2888.77

For what? For whatever you need. If you want to take somebody back.

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2895.945

Burner room. He didn't elaborate. Oh, man. They just say Joe House has been talking about it ever since. New category from Matt Hennessey. This is wonderful. In honor of Al Baldwin's Captain George Elbrey from The Departed, it's the two weeks with pay award for the movie character who should have been fired from their job.

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2918.88

Yeah, so we'd have to lose Vincent Chase for this?

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292.552

Because a lot of times we just put that on what's aged the best, what's aged the worst, but maybe smoking needs a bigger platform.

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2923.701

Is it time? Vincent Chase 20-year anniversary?

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2930.163

He had examples. The Mayor from Jaws, the Italian detective team, and the talented Mr. Ripley, and all the employees of Empire Records.

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2941.346

I know. A lot of people like Empire Records. 30th anniversary coming up. Might be on the schedule. A theme month from Jen Ducks, who says she's a longtime listener and loves the podcast. She had a quick category idea, best FanDuel line odds as we're doing something. I guess it would be what were the FanDuel live odds for, you know,

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2969.072

It's easy just to use heat as the prism for all these possible categories. Best fan do line odds. How long does Chris stay together with the Ashley Jackson character?

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2980.959

Right. Anyway, she asked, when is Philly Month going to happen? You've teased some Philly movies. Silver Linings Playbook last year was great. I think there's plenty of meat left.

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3007.051

So we did Philadelphia, we did Trading Places, we did Blow Up. Mm-hmm. Silver Linings. Which I think were three of, and then Silver Linings. And Silver Linings. So we've done some already. And Rocky. Well, we haven't done Rocky 1 and we haven't done Rocky 2.

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301.615

Especially right now.

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3022.277

Yeah, we did Creed. Yep. Did Creed Live. There's probably a couple others we forgot. Yeah. What was that Vigilante movie with...

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3031.144

tom scarrett fighting back that was in philly was it yeah tubi greedy motherfuckers a tubi fun idea from andrew rowan two ace i think a good category to add when you're doing a crime heist cop movie is where does the inevitable are you a cop scene rank yeah compared to den of thieves departed fast and furious um

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3055.703

In general, I think the next time we do one of these movies, we really have to... They need a bunch of special categories. It would be fun to apply this to, like, Grand Budapest Hotel, though.

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3067.637

I was thinking of the heist movie Staples. They're on to us.

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3072.493

Are you a cop? Nobody's ever broken into this bank before. Yeah. We're here for the bank's money, not yours. And I need to know right now, are you in? That's the five things that have to be in every- I do this job and then I'm out.

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A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

3084.977

Yeah. One last job. Yeah. Still feel like we can write one of these. Reader idea from Ryan McCabe. Rewatchables is the best podcast available. He praises us for a little bit here. One of the categories that needs to be improved is the CR thinks Luke Wilson hottest take. You have great ideas, but as a longtime Simmons fan, thank you, and supporter of mailbags.

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3107.056

They've consistently taught me that your fans have the craziest and best hottest takes. That's legitimately how every great mailbag was built in the old days. He's correct. The emails were great. Tie this to the old fans. Call it the mailbag hottest take. Solicit hot takes from readers and present those for commentary. Y'all do a fine job, but I know readers and listeners would kill this.

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3126.721

I'm not against this idea.

The Rewatchables

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3134.532

I don't think you can leak the movie ahead of time because then we're getting all these ideas that would fuck up the podcast. So one thing we could do is on the next show.

The Rewatchables

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3149.959

Maybe that's what we do. I like the idea of hot takes from readers about movies we've done. I think it's a good idea.

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316.379

So this is most believable smokers. Gabriel Byrne? Yeah, because De Niro did this thing. He'd flip it. It was these two fingers, but the way he did it.

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3164.518

I'm always, like, really hesitant of, like, going on, like, if there's, like, a 500-post Reddit thread about the movie. I want to, like, come up with my own ideas on the movie, and I always feel like that screws me up. And then I'm like, that was on Reddit. It's like, fuck. From James Rowe. He's a day one rewatchables fan. His trilogy, Holy Trinity is Godfather Armageddon in the town.

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3187.411

I have an idea that while I don't think it works as a rewatchables category, it's perfect for a Bill and CR segment. A fantasy draft between Bill and CR of heist movie crew members to build your own crew for heist. Five round draft, snake order, one crew leader, best friend road dog, two role players, fifth pick is the first to die. Did you prep this?

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3211.306

Well, we decided instead of doing a draft... We want to challenge ourselves. Yeah, we're going to try to come up with a heist crew together. So the ringleader has to be Neil McCauley, right? Yeah.

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3224.917

I think we do anything.

The Rewatchables

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3243.194

Neil McCauley. Yeah, me too. I feel like he knows his shit. I think you need somebody who's less about the violence and more about the smarts.

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3254.022

Or all the guys from one movie.

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3258.506

Well, who's the number two guy? I think it has to be Jem, right? Who's your road dog is definitely Jem.

The Rewatchables

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3283.496

Um, what do we do about like, can Merriman not be the lead guy, but also be in the crew anyway? Well, in truth, not just oil den of thieves.

The Rewatchables

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3297.748

Right. True. So yeah, Merriman could be third. All right. So, so far we have Neil McCauley and Jim. You want to throw oceans 11 in there too?

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33.274

Was that before or after I got the vaccine? Because I don't remember anything after the vaccine. Is this Firebill? It's no longer called Mac. Yeah, fuck it. We have no idea how long this is going to be. It could be one part. It could be two parts. That's producer Craig right there. Craig Horlbeck, CR, Chris Ryan. We've been doing the rewatchables.

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3312.205

I really need Sizemore in here from Heat. Kind of a wild card. I just need him. What was his name in the movie? I'm blanking. Chris Scher... No, not Scherlis. That wasn't... Whatever his name was. It was Chirito. Chirito. Yeah. Who blew it all by just calling one guy slick when everybody had just been blown up, but somehow remembered that little detail. Yeah. You gotta get the phone book.

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3336.784

Do it anyway. Because he needs to be in this so he can have his... His one big scene. His blinking. I need a one big scene for my number four guy. I need some size of them.

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3352.577

Yeah, I don't know how Merriman and Chirito would interact. Feels like there'd be some alpha dog stuff with them. Little Russell Wilson, Justin Fields. It's like, whose corner is this?

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3363.888

All he's doing is eating nachos in the back and kind of hanging out. He's always in a great suit. Do we need, is there a wisecracking guy for like the four spot?

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3381.264

Yeah. I think that's what some of these movies miss is the one funny. I was trying to make this case with then at these, but somebody who's keeping it late. And then the driver is who? Gosling from Drive. That's pretty good. Yeah.

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339.026

I think when you act, you're just in a trailer and somebody's like, you want to have a segway? Yeah, I would love to have it. You're just like, yeah. They all stink of cigarettes. Edie, Falco, and Copland. Which I was thinking that maybe is an award too. The Edie, Falco, and Copland award for this character somehow became three times hotter because she smoked. Blake Lively in the town.

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3408.592

I don't know if you've seen this movie, but it's Miami Vice. It came out in 2006. I have. I really like Jamie Foxx's performance in that movie. Me too. And I feel like he could have been good guy or bad guy with the way he plays it. I almost feel like he could have just been the driver, like the Haysburg character.

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3429.237

Yeah. So who's like your number one heist love interest? Gong Li is basically just saying over and over again that there wasn't enough time. Time's luck. I got to be honest. Lively? I got to say lively. Yeah. Now we're talking.

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3456.302

All right, we'll keep workshopping this. The important thing is that Neil has to- Wait, did we pick a first guy to die? Oh, that's a good one.

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3472.805

It's big doofus. There's no way this guy's making it to the 50-minute mark of the movie. Well, the guy in the town, the guy who gets his head shot off when he's driving, the tattoo guy, but he lasted, I guess, till the end. Theme Months from Josh Brill. Comeback Month. Much-needed hits that brought a star back into the conversation, like The Wrestler or The Nightingale Professor. Underrated Month.

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A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

3498.936

The Other Guys, Great White Hype, Outside Providence, Popstar. Comedy classics, that's easy. In Honor of SNL's 50th, maybe do something for that. That might be on the agenda. And then Oscar movies I thought was interesting.

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3517.67

Because when else are we doing like Network or One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, movies like that? I would do Network whenever. Terms of Endearment? Yeah. Did that win? Out of Africa? Yeah. New category from Eric Ritvo. This is great. This is going right in. The Don Dawson Sasha Jenkins Award from Dazed and Confused for the actor in the film that you cannot believe didn't become a bigger star.

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3540.872

Yeah. So you would have Dana Willer Nicholson. Fletch. Yeah. Be your number one. Mine would be Lisa Elbecker. Yeah.

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3549.075

But I like naming a category after Don Dawson. It could also be the who's the guy in Swingers who we never saw again. Oh, yeah. The third guy. Sue.

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3562.737

Yeah. And he was just never in another movie. It's like, what happened to that guy? I do like capturing. It feels like a cousin of the that guy. Like, why weren't you more of a thing?

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3577.171

I think we add that to the hodgepodge. Yeah. Where somebody could... Agree to do that. A plea from Felix K. It's come to this. I'm a 50-year-old man emailing a podcast to request a movie that should have been done a long time ago. Sorry. Scarface! What am I missing? Seems like a no-brainer. This is not my fault. You can say Hunt for October is my fault.

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3598.859

There's some that are just, you know, on ice in the refrigerator waiting to be done. We're doing Scarface at some point.

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3612.816

To open the door for doing it yet again later. We probably should have done Pulp earlier.

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3635.331

Yeah. Yeah, there's some good ones like Point Break and Speed and New category from Josh Ramshaw. The Kyle Brand Award for Is This Movie Better as a Menachem Golan Production. Really solid. Probably not out of that category, but a great show.

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365.673

Yeah. Well... Sean sent us, what was that Twitter account, the smoking account? It was this Twitter account where they measure how many cigarettes were smoked during the movie. And that's the entire Twitter account. That's fun.

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3665.155

Like we're doing Philadelphia?

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3672.223

Yeah. That's good. He's lost everything, but he gained it all back. Maybe that should be added to the director's commentary of the sports announcers. Like, should AD Action's voice be there? From Eric Hoover. This isn't a suggestion. It's more a fact, but I thought it was interesting.

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3690.748

After listening to the Friday Night Lights episode, I would love to submit a nominee to dethrone the undisclosed truck stop coin toss. He's a lifelong racing fan. He says the 1969 coin toss between Ogden Phipps, Claiborne Farms owner, horse racing royalty, and Penny Chenery was the most important in sports history.

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3712.934

And what happened was the 1969, I'll skim it through, but the 1969 breeding season, this horse called Chikada did not conceive, Sakata Chikada.

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3734.869

Only one fall was due in the spring of 1970. The winner of the coin toss would receive one fall, the first choice in 69. The loser would get second choice in 69, the lone fall of 1970. Ogden Phipps wins the toss.

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A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

3754.756

Ogden Phipps wins the toss, gets something royal, 1969. Chenery gets the second choice in 69 in the 1974 Secretariat. And he says, imagine losing a coin toss and ending up with Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, and Secretariat. That's got to be the best coin toss. I always thought it was Neil Walker, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the 1969 NBA draft, but no. New category from Patton, Wisconsin.

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3785.745

Best application to a high school lesson plan. And he says, for years, my colleagues, former colleagues, and I have utilized movie clips or entire movies into our instruction as social studies teachers. Examples, U.S. history, there will be blood, U.S. oil boom. Argo, Iranian hostage crisis. Pulp fiction, jewels in the robbers and diners, a metaphor for U.S.

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380.969

Yeah. That's good. So this guy went through and this was just his thing. I think cigarette smoking in movies. How many cigarettes? It's at cigarette movies on X. Yeah, there you go. That's you. That's actually my website. All right, so we're going to step up the smoking stuff for 2025. Good start. This is from Cindy Hollenbeck.

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3807.424

and German tensions following the Zimmerman note. Is that true?

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3814.91

Crime and justice. Catch me if you can, white collar crime. Psychology, Rain Man, What About Bob, Memento, Mean Girls, The Strawberry Daiquiri Scene, Philosophy, Groundhog Day. Um, I don't think this works as a category, but I really appreciate the spirit behind it. Yeah. Using movies to connect with high school kids who don't want to be in your class and are probably on their phone.

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3853.762

This is the best idea of all the ideas, and sadly, we probably won't be able to do it. It's a new category idea from Colin W. A few years ago, I was jokingly brought up to have a category where you call Rosillo and ask what he thinks of the film being discussed.

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3866.956

I feel like we as listeners have missed out on more than a few gem takes from RR by this having been implemented in the podcast. This would be an incredible category. Does Russillo like this movie? What's Russillo's take? Calling Russillo unprompted and unannounced. If he doesn't answer, he doesn't answer. I don't know why we don't do this. This is my favorite idea we've ever had.

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3886.066

This is by far the best idea. So we just put him on speaker and just call and if he answers, he answers. And we're like, hey, Friday Night Lights, what are your thoughts?

The Rewatchables

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3920.393

Call. We just call him and he's like, ah, Ethan Hawke, fucking movie sucked. New category. I thought Jesse could have done better than her, man. I really like this next idea too. New category idea from Thomas P. Is this movie perfect in that does it accomplish its stated goal? For example, Dazed and Confused attempts to capture the beginning of summer in 1976 in a small town.

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3946.668

Can you imagine a better version including the soundtrack of Does the actor playing Mitch take it from perfect to almost perfect? The answer is yes. Other perfect movie candidates. Stand By Me, Devil Wears Prada, Die Hard. Not necessarily the best movie ever, but movies that perfectly achieve their goal. Love this.

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A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

3964.471

It's a great idea. It's a better way to rate movies. Yeah, my wife had Devil Wears Prada on, which we've watched a bunch of. It's one of the most rewatchable movies the last 20 years. I think. And I was watching, I was like, this is like a no-hitter of a movie for whatever it was trying to do. Yeah, it wouldn't change a single thing. The plot makes sense.

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3985.363

Even Adrian Grenier as the boyfriend is hilarious because he's so bad. Yeah. So I like the idea of did this movie achieve its ceiling?

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399.278

Bill, you are my spirit animal, which my kids say is no longer politically correct. Ha, ha, ha. I love the Bad News Bears Slapshot Animal House. Cindy Hollenbeck is my mother, by the way. This is great. She loves Bad News Bears Slapshot Animal House, Caddyshack, Fast Times. Find myself nodding along your perspectives. I enjoy everyone's knowledge, senses of humor, dirty jokes, and analysis. Okay.

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4006.949

So do you think this is, where would we put this in the, in the episode? Is it near the end? I think you would do after. You do near the end, right? Yeah. Yeah. Who won the movie and is this movie perfect? Or right before who won the movie. Yeah. Yeah. I like that one. Top of the pot idea from Katie Mount. This is another good one.

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4022.731

I would love it if you all added a food and drink recommendation to accompany the film we're supposed to be rewatching. My husband and I plan our weeks around rewatching and listening to your podcasts. Oh, that's nice. That's nice.

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4033.197

So to immensely help my meal planning, I already have a steak on a paper plate planned for rewatching Den of Thieves, but still decided between a box of wine or champagne and a beer to go with it. Oh, man. I would go. That's an interesting one. Yeah. So what's the, what's heat? We got to go back to heat. So what's the food and drink for heat? The chicken?

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4066.322

I took it as like the mood for the movie.

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4087.252

I think the problem with this category, which I really liked, is it's really up to the person. Yeah. They know what the movie is. Take it from there.

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4101.357

This never quite got here, but Luke B thought we should do a Brad Stevens Award for the best basketball lineup you could possibly make for the movie.

The Rewatchables

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4109.6

Guys, you slot five characters into roles, positions, and a starting lineup. He said, for instance, Neal's crew from Heat. Neal's the point guard. He's a Chris Paul type. Chris is the gunslinging shooting guard. Trejo's the bruising meta world peace Corey Maggette type. And Sizemore's a Horace Grant, Serge Ibaka, David West, traditional Swiss Army knife power forward.

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4140.686

Is there a Corey Maggette in there? This is a good one for an ensemble movie. Yeah. To put together a basketball team. So like Friday Night Lights we just did.

The Rewatchables

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4152.474

So Riggins was what? Riggins is like a... He's like a banger. He's like a rebounder. He's like an undersized four. Saracen's like a 5'9 point guard. He's like Jose Alvarado. Boobie Miles shooting guard. Boobie Miles is like the Kobe. He goes down. Category tweak from John Wolfe. This is great. A cousin of the Mally Rubin did this movie need a better sex scene.

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4177.305

I thought of this during the Redentive Thieves pod. Basically, How do you have shoehorned a sports scene into this movie for no reason? The best version of this is American History X when we have the Helter Skelter pickup basketball game.

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421.786

Category recommendation. In line with Cruz versus Hanks. Can you find two female actresses? Or she said two female actors, which I probably should have said. That's why you're not the spirit animal. Can you find two female actors as well? I'm thinking of Sandra Bullock versus Nicole Kidman or Michelle Pfeiffer versus Ellen Barkin. Meg Ryan versus Goldie Hawn. You see where I'm going. All right.

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4230.43

So before sunrise. A little five-a-side soccer. Yeah, he all of a sudden is.

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4244.137

Instead of acting class, racquetball is claustrophobic. It's too much.

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4252.341

We should test drive that one. That's a good idea.

The Rewatchables

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4259.786

Oh man, what would they be in Hereditary? And you have to kind of make it work. That's a school football game where they go and something scary happens.

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4270.295

Just like dunking on her son. Well, Great Santini had all those great basketball scenes in that. You've never seen that one.

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4313.399

A slew of category suggestions from Yale Reardon. These are really good. He wants us to add the Jason Tatum, he's only 19 breakout star award. Yeah. Someone who obviously jumps off the screen. That doesn't happen enough. The Nick Saban offensive coordinator referral award, an open opportunity to give out references of comparable films. If you enjoyed this movie, I recommend you also watch this.

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4337.166

We could just call that recommended if you like.

The Rewatchables

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4342.751

But maybe is that better than double feature? If you like this movie, try this. Or does Tubi do that? The greedy overlords.

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4358.657

And then he says he wants us to change the title of the Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness needle drop. He said the ringer dramatically overestimates the importance of Project X and culture to that.

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4369.762

Yeah. I disagree too. He said he offered the Johnny Depp's Black Betty airport walk and blow. That's definitely not happening.

The Rewatchables

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4381.886

He did offer the Billy Bats Atlantis beatdown in Goodfellas. That's fucking incredible. Pretty solid. But we're not getting rid of Kid Cudi. New category from James Winston. Thought this was Jameis Winston for a second. The I used to fuck guys like you in prison award for the wildest, oddest, most fucked up line of dialogue in the movie. We'll keep it in mind. Yeah. Can you see some of these?

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4405.151

I didn't think I sent some of these to you. I can see them. How do you see them? You sent the whole thing to me. Oh, I did? I didn't mean to. I only meant to send you like seven. Yeah. No, you sent them all to me. Oh, shit. I really fucked up. I meant to only send you seven.

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4422.08

New category from Daniel in Mexico. How about a category called, would this movie work in another genre? Example, Tropic Thunder is a survival drama, Rosemary's Baby is a comedy, or Mrs. Doubtfire is a horror thriller film. So they did that with The Shining with the family dramedy. Yeah. The Torrences.

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445.411

So I put real thought on this. I like this idea. Okay. I like this Fallen, Cruise, Hanks. But I also think Cruise and Hanks are one-on-one as a combo. We don't have the actress version of that.

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4454.679

A burning question from Robert G. This is good. You've given the opportunity to have either Cruz or Hanks on for rewatchables as your co-host. You can do a movie they've been in, a movie the other's been in, or a movie of your choice. Who's a better co-host? What movie are you doing?

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4470.632

Is the play for them, one of them to come on, a movie you haven't done yet that's theirs, like Cruz for All the Right Moves or Hanks for Turner and Hooch? Or is it more interesting to talk about a movie the other one's in? Um... Personally, I think a re-cruising with Cruz is the only choice.

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4495.7

So it's almost like a subcategory for Cruiser Hanks.

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4524.817

Do we know the crews can't hang in as a podcaster? Cruise from a I can't believe this is happening standpoint is better. The upside of Cruise is higher. If we're doing like Before Sunrise with Cruise and he just fucking goes on a tangent about when he filmed Mission Impossible 5 in France. Yeah, he's like, I've been to Vienna.

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4546.167

He's just acting weird and doing Cruise stuff. It's Cruise. It's not even close. I would feel safer with Hanks. But what does that even mean? That the pod won't be a disaster? No, I just feel like it would be a safer bet to be a good pod. There's a Cruise version of the pod.

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456.783

But what I do think we have, I think you could do Julia Roberts, Sandra Bullock, Michelle Pfeiffer, Nicole Kidman, and make it a foursome. And we could keep track of that as well. Because I think those are, like Julia Roberts versus Bullock is fun. Pfeiffer we always talk about anyway. Kidman's got a little more drama.

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4568.306

uh we also had uh robert g also said you need to get burnt on all for on for sakari or the account rewatchables coast along with cr if cr can muster up the courage to do wayne jenkins with burnt on the pod keep it otherwise you got to retire it i disagree um from james mcgowan i'm slightly older than you That's my line. But I'm sure you remember the CBS late movie.

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4593.151

If the outlaw Josie Wills or Kelly's Heroes was playing, I was staying up. You could do an old school broadcast TV rewatchables month. I also love the Hollywood nights. I think that would be tough. So what would be some examples of movies from that era? It's all the Westerns. Okay. It's Towering Inferno, movies like that. Poseidon Adventure. Yeah, Poseidon Adventure. I don't know.

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4614.562

Those movies are pretty tough to watch now. Yeah. I tried to watch Poseidon Adventure and it's rough. Hackman's in that, right? Yeah, there's a lot of good people and it's like, ah, this should be good. And 20 minutes in and you're like, they can't get Shelley Winters up on a cliff.

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4629.411

She's like, leave me here. Oh my God. Really rough. A tweet from Mark McGowan. Big fan of the pot, he says. On the Redentive Thieves show this week, you threw out drinking milk from the carton for Apex Mountain. I want to submit the scene from Terminator 2 when the T-1000 kills John's foster dad through the milk carton while he's drinking from it.

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4649.581

Who knew the T-1000 cared so much about proper hygiene and etiquette? What did we say the best one? We said Anchorman, right? Yeah. How did it beat Anchorman for drinking milk out of the... We haven't done Anchorman yet. We haven't. No. It's on the list. Was that 04? Yeah. Yeah. Missed the anniversary. Category section from Mark C. Where would you cast Philip Seymour Hoffman? This is a great one.

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4687.595

That's good. So maybe it's right after Cruiser Hanks? Yeah. We'll test drive it. Where would you cast Philip Seymour Hoffman? Yeah, we'll test drive it. It'd be tough to do it before sunrise. New category from Kevin Paulman. The Sideways...

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4700.399

I'm not drinking any fucking Merlot Award for life imitating art presented when something ridiculous in the movie unexpectedly gains a cult following and becomes a bona fide thing. Examples. Sideways. When Miles' Merlot tantrum arguably torpedoed Merlot sales for years and counting, which we talked about a lot. Office space. The rise of the red swing line stapler. Big Lebowski.

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4722.327

Jeff Bridges turning into the dude in real life. Rounders. The poker boom. And Empire Records. Rex Manning Day. Another Empire Records. There's not enough times this happens, but I like the spirit behind it.

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4753.934

Yes. I was terrified of the ocean. Yeah. It's affected Bill. It really did. I remember walking by the ocean the next summer and being afraid to go in. Category tweak from Mike Roy Lance. This is great. He says he thinks he's listening to every Watchables episode. He wants to lose evil laughing Ramon Raymond. People hate Ramon Raymond.

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476.678

Yeah. So I think if those were the four, is there anybody else you would put in there? Julia, Sandra Bullock, Pfeiffer, Kidman. Because Demi Moore, probably a little too limited. There's got to be somebody more recent, right? Well, I was thinking, so somebody like under 40? Like Emma Stone?

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4781.112

He wants us to replace Ramon Raymond with Wilford Brimley from The Firm. He says it's the hardest he's ever laughed listening to a pod. I think we need more Brimley. If we had Daniel Plainview and- Well, for Brimley? For 2025, we're in pretty good shape. Yeah, that's good.

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4804.408

Okay. Yeah. It's always funny to say his words last and Philip Baker Hall. What was Brimley's character in the firm? Did he have a name? Yeah, he did. Tell you what it brings, Mitch. Heartache. Random question from Rail F. William Devisher was his name.

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A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

4822.183

Do you think movie theaters should invest more resources in auditoriums and anniversary movies and also feature more old school rewatchable movies? What do you think, Craig? You're a younger guy who likes to go out and do stuff. I think... Do you like on Alamo Drafthouse?

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4860.407

Because I saw Seven is on IMAX right now, and I was like, oh.

The Rewatchables

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4874.375

I think it's a thing. Chris had a good point about Seven.

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4878.649

Probably not a theater you want to be in with the other people there. It's just you and 17 guys by themselves.

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4892.097

I think I told this story in the rewatchables when I saw Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer by myself in Boston at the BU theater. Was there anybody else at the theater? There was like eight other guys and we were all kind of like monitoring each other. We were like, what are you... What are you up to? Everyone like separated perfectly by six seats kind of watching.

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4923.755

That would be way up there. We skip the first hour and then we can come in. The first shot of Enora, you're like, I don't want to watch this with my mom. I would say number one would be Monster's Ball. Okay. Make me feel good.

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493.967

Yeah. Oh, Jennifer Lawrence. So maybe Jennifer Lawrence replaces Julia. Julia's fine.

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4937.522

Don't open your eyes, Mary. So this one caught my attention. Category idea from Michael Morrison. Would this movie be better if it was directed by Spielberg or Scorsese? Ooh. That's fun. Could that be follow Cruise and Hanks? That's good. I like that. The only problem I had with it is, are there arguments? I feel like each one would be naturally easy to figure out.

The Rewatchables

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4982.678

Well, let's test drive it with the last couple we've done. Home Alone 2. Den of Thieves. Spielberg or Scorsese? I mean. Probably Scorsese.

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4994.131

Friday Night Lights. Spielberg or Scorsese?

The Rewatchables

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4997.152

Yeah. Home Alone 2. Spielberg. The Gambler. Well, I don't know.

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5012.015

Running Scared.

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5034.676

Because he's a big Hitchcock guy too.

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5038.137

Yeah, thanks, Spielberg. Last one, Halloween 4. What do you think? Probably Scorsese.

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5048.462

That was great. That was awesome. Category ideas from Johnny L. The Bill Simmons Hardcore Award for most inappropriate Google search on a work computer inspired by the film.

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5065.68

the innocent bystander award for the background character whose life is forever changed due to the actions of the movie. But of course, it's never acknowledged in the film. He says, the girl on the Girl Scouts team in Dodgeball who tests positive for PDs gets her team disqualified. Beaver tranquilizer. What happens to her down the road? That's pretty funny.

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5085.74

And then last idea, the memorabilia from this movie you'd want the least.

The Rewatchables

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5091.006

I think maybe we add that. It's like memorabilia you'd want the most or the least and you get either choice. Right?

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5100.996

Right. Absolutely.

The Rewatchables

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5104.096

Question from Steven M. Why would you guys do a rewatch on Rocky III and Rocky IV before the Oscar-winning Rocky I? It makes no sense. Bill, would you like to take that one?

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5116.405

I don't know what Craig's doing. I don't know what he's doing over there. We did Rocky IV. We did the first.

The Rewatchables

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5127.594

Yeah. I've been saving you for Rocky I. Thank you. I did Rocky III with Sal and Gus. Mm-hmm. My buddy Gus, because we had watched Rocky 3 together so many times. And did you do 4 with Kyle? Rocky 4 was Kyle. I think that was during COVID. Yeah, maybe. It was Zoom era. It was a Zoom pod. It was. And I just did it in the order of Rocky movies that I like. My favorite is 3.

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5151.515

My second favorite is 4. One's slow. Yeah. And features the controversial seduction scene. And then 2. Which really, Rocky should have gone to jail for 10 years. It's really rough to watch. No intimacy coordinator on that one either. Yeah, Rocky made some mistakes. But Rocky 1, we probably do 1, and then maybe we do Rocky 2, but it's just the last 25 minutes from her waking up from the coma.

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5178.425

It's a mini rewatchable. First hour and a half of that movie, shoot that in the sun. Oh, movie suggestion from Elijah. Big fan of the rewatchables. You've already done Alien. I'd love to hear you guys discuss Aliens. Me too, Elijah. It's one of the best sci-fi action films ever. One of the better sequels. It's immensely rewatchable.

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518.362

So is it modern people or old people?

The Rewatchables

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5204.319

I like that movie. Oh, you do? Yeah. Had no idea. Are you out on Aliens? No, I really like it. We've been saving it.

The Rewatchables

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5217.472

It's a long movie for a date. Nothing happened after. I'll tell you that much. Not the future sports gal. Nothing. Um... A complete from Scott Murphy. No, no, no. It's Blue Horseshoe. Blue Oyster is the bar in the Police Academy series. I know he's old and his braid is becoming mush, but damn. Either get it right or stop quoting other films. I disagree. That gives the show its flavor.

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5259.42

It's so fun. Yeah. You need that.

The Rewatchables

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5282.602

I'm... I'm fine with fucking up occasionally. I've fucked up in the, uh... meet the parents with Owen Wilson, Luke Wilson for like five solid minutes.

The Rewatchables

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5291.742

And you wanted to be corrected earlier on that one?

The Rewatchables

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5296.226

Yeah. An ad break.

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531.029

I can't figure out who it is then. Because you could go more modern. You could go J-Law vs. Emma Stone. Yeah. But I don't know if that's Cruz or Hanks worthy. I mean, Cruz has been in 15 rewatchables already. There's a... Julia Roberts versus Sandra Bullock?

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5321.367

New category idea for Jacob Murphy. Every now and then you guys talk about some great names in the rewatchables movies like Mitch McDeer or Kelly Leak. These names should be given the category of the Brock Landers and Chess Rockwell Award. Yeah, this is up there. The Whip Whitaker Award from Flight. Yeah. So you can talk me into this just being a standard category. Best name. Best name.

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5341.29

Best character name.

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5342.831

Because we always talk about it anyway. Maybe it goes in what's aged the best. I don't know. New category from Daniel C., the Carl from Walking Dead Award for what character would survive the longest in the zombie apocalypse. Classic rewatchables examples include Gem in the Town, Buck and Boogie Nights, and Tubbs in Calderon's Revenge. This cannot be a category, but I like the spirit.

The Rewatchables

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5362.345

I like that he threw in Tubbs. Yeah, he was really speaking our language. New category from Zach Smith, suggesting the Barney Cousins Award for most inexplicable accent work. Recent winners, Carrie Elwes and Twister. Lindsey Krauss and Slapshot, Dennis Christopher and Breaking Away, any bad Boston accent.

The Rewatchables

A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

5379.056

I don't know. He's drive-by. But then he says, Barney could also be a great addition to the Wayne Jenkins category. I'm not against that one. Hello, Chris. So we're going to add in a character on a movie that's not available to stream at all? Drink the coffee, Chris. New category idea from Michael Connor. I would love to see a new category called, what is the perfect age to see this movie?

The Rewatchables

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54.162

We had like, was the eight, nine, nine year anniversary. Is that right? Of when we did the heat, 20 years of heat, which by the way, in 2025, 30 years of heat.

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5404.609

Love this. Great one. Seeing The Breakfast Club at 15 is so much better than seeing it at 10 or 25.

The Rewatchables

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5416.378

One minute from now.

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5420.483

Goodfellas is the best.

The Rewatchables

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5453.382

I think one thing I've noticed is the movies that are serious but then are secretly funny are the ones that have aged the best for me, like Heat and Goodfellas, that are great movies I loved anyway. Goodfellas is so fucking funny now when I watch it. I was texting you over the break about Tommy when he shoots Spider and then he gets mad at Spider. Yeah. Get up.

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A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

5484.664

In some ways, I think the movies sometimes age where it's actually better the 35th time you've seen it than the first time. I definitely feel that way about Goodfellas. I enjoy it as much now as I ever did. But...

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5500.72

I would say sometimes movies hit we talked about this in the past when we did Kicking and Screaming you have to see a movie like that that's about those characters right around the time that you have to be the same age my son really loves those kid in the it's a summer and the kid who's got the job for the summer Snack Shack he loves those movies he's always like dad where are more movies like that the summer movies

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5529.946

Movie suggestion from used car cowboy. This is just a weird email. I'm going to read it. The 1978 invasion of the body snatchers would be awesome. He wants us to do it. A plus movie. Plus it has Jeff Goldblum playing a character called Bella check who ends up completely stoic, emotionless. And it features the 1978, 79 golden state warriors.

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5551.129

I'd like to imagine Brooke Adams' boyfriend was watching Jerry Maxwell and Alvin Martin from Inside Moves taking that team to the playoffs. Also puts me in mind of finding out how many people in my life were pro MAGA. I think used car cowboy just did the whole pod for us. Steven and Charlotte from Massachusetts wrote this one together. Hey, everyone. Love the show. My dad and I are big listeners.

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5573.181

Had an idea for a new category. the Kathy Griffin in Pulp Fiction, Mike Myers in Inglourious Bastards, Lena Dunham in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood Award for most jarring casting decision. Yeah. Thanks for such a great show. Hope you're all staying safe.

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558.156

We'll keep workshopping that one. There's no right answer yet. There's something there. I like the idea of Michelle Pfeiffer just being involved because, as you know, I love her. All right. New category idea from Will Hanselman. As a long-suffering Lions fan, Dan Campbell is my hero and number one anxiety inducer.

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5596.755

Yeah, Stanley Tucci.

The Rewatchables

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5605.831

This is an interesting category. I'm trying to think of a recent movie that we've done. This casting took me out of the movie for two minutes.

The Rewatchables

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5626.491

That's a pretty... This is more like the side... I think Lena Dunham in Once Upon a Time in My Hollywood is a great example of this. Maybe that was a little bit too much mustard.

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5639.437

tom noonan and heat yeah it's all out there it's a good one though a rocky ford nitpick from paul on the 39th anniversary of the end of the cold war i have one nitpick to regarding the greatest movie ever made paulie says what about the rose bowl game but the fight takes place on christmas day one week before the rose bowl i don't know what to do this information i'm just passing along because it obviously has been bothering paul for a long time

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5665.089

And then Danielle pointed out with the Hereditary episode, we mentioned it was piano wire. Yeah, that's what I thought. It was a rope saw. They're used to cut down trees. And the only reason I'm really mentioning this detail is to emphasize the details Ari Aster puts in his films.

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5682.7

Rope saw would make more sense due to the area the family lives in.

The Rewatchables

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5686.603

Likely used to make the treehouse. uh dave van buskirk wants us to do the sure thing which has been on the list forever but it's another movie that's just not available also a big one i'm a one crazy summer fan and a better off dead fan so sure thing just not around a slew of categories from brian greer the jenny gump award for the character who seems nice but is actually a terrible person

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5709.864

I really like this one. Maybe it's a conditional one. The Pam Beasley. Yeah. Mike Wallace in The Insider. Would this movie have been better if someone died? Yeah. Not against it. The Ice Storm Award. Would this movie have been better if some of the characters randomly had an affair or fucked? A little dark. And then he has monthly themes.

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A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

5732.172

Vengeance is Mine Month about characters seeking vengeance, but then Dog Month. Best in Show, Marley and Me, Turner and Hooch. You know, I've circled dog month for a while. I can't find the fourth movie.

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5745.205

Those three would definitely be in dog month. I don't know what the fourth one is.

The Rewatchables

A 2025 Rewatchables Mailbag

575.996

I suggest a category called the Dan Campbell scale, given to a character or scene that makes you think, holy shit, are they really going for this as it's actually happening? For instance, the Illuminati orgy in Eyes Wide Shut is a 100% Dan Campbell, Gerard Butler's big neck eating the donut off the ground, 75% Dan Campbell, etc., And then he says, best wishes. Thanks for all your awesome work.

The Rewatchables

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5750.828

Well, the Simmons family loves dog movies. Marley and me is so sad. Man. Dog's Purpose. Really good.

The Rewatchables

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5759.192

The sled dog movie that, what's his face made? Cuba Gooding. Paul Walker. Eight Below. Yeah. Awesome.

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5772.65

Hasn't gotten there yet.

The Rewatchables

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5777.032

Carl Rice writes in, for categories, I like the idea of the heat. Okay, motherfucker! Award for the moment the movie steps up a notch.

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5798.007

Last one from Jackson in Toronto. He loves the show, listens every week. He's been thinking about Full Metal Jacket for 30 years. Sergeant Hartman has a smart-ass response for every answer the privates give. In one scene, he asks Joker, do you believe in the Virgin Mary? And Joker says no. The response gets a slap in the face, but also Joker gets promoted.

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5816.781

Whole pivotal scene built around the response. What would have happened if Joker said yes? Would their response be outstanding? There's no way the sergeant could have given a disgust or response for answering. Yes. I think there should be a category for what would have happened if they just did or said blank.

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5852.838

Yeah, there's something there. We got some good ones out of that, though.

The Rewatchables

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5861.124

I can't see if I screwed up... I can't believe I screwed up and sent you the wrong doc. That's okay. I meant to send you a doc that had seven things. Did you feel like it affected my performance? No, I only wanted you to prepare for seven things. Instead, I sent you a doc with seven demons. You jumped around. That's fine. All right. We'll use a couple of those.

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5877.858

I mean, the most important thing is that Daniel Plainville and... Plainview, yeah. Daniel Plainview. How'd you correct me? I don't know.

The Rewatchables

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5896.627

Yeah. I saw H.W. What did we say we could do? Like a Wednesday rewatchable?

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5909.446

Movie hottest takes. I don't mind having people send hottest takes and doing a special little mini episode and seeing if it works. All right. Craig Horlbeck. Chris Ryan. We'll be back next week with an actual movie. So thanks for your patience. But The Rewatchables will be kicking back in every week after this episode. Thanks to everybody who sent in really fun, great email questions.

The Rewatchables

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5933.218

We didn't get to nearly all of them. But thanks for that. If you ever want to email us, therewatchables33 at gmail.com. Good to see you guys.

The Rewatchables

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609.87

What is the all-time holy shit they're really going for this? I really like the idea of them eating the donut off the ground. It's a perfect Dan Campbell.

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629.743

Oh, that's Dan Campbell. That's fourth and nine. Yeah.

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640.212

All right. That's good. I think we worked that one in somehow. Good one. Congrats to Will Hanselman. Here's a question from Kevin O'Connell. Because he's got some diamonds in his hands? I think no relation. Why the hell haven't you done a rollerball episode? I was sure you'd do it during 70s sports movie month.

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657.666

The mustaches, the lapels, the bonkers sport, the more bonkers plot, Jimmy fucking Khan. I know you're all riding the high of finally doing Pulp Fiction after teasing it for so long, but to quote the wolves, quote the wolf, let's not start sucking each other's dicks yet. I feel like every fifth episode, Bill is itching to let the rollerball discussion loose. Is he the only one who wants it?

The Rewatchables

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678.884

I would love to get into which current athletes would succeed at rollerball, how a rollerball fantasy would work. What the hell is the point of that scene of those rich people blowing up trees?

The Rewatchables

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702.102

You are my sun spirit animal. I think faking mailbag answers and questions is one of the worst things you can do as a host. I would never do it. Now, what's funny is Kevin O'Connell wrote like four or five different rollerball emails over there. He really wants it. Okay.

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731.503

Well, unfortunately, we've done most of his movies. That's the problem. Why?

The Rewatchables

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739.107

Sure. Jimmy Stewart. Yeah. Jim Carrey. Yeah. Which current athletes would succeed at playing rollerball? Josh Allen. So rollerball, they're skating around a rink.

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751.773

It's like football crossed with the roller derby, and it's just incredibly violent.

The Rewatchables

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756.275

So Josh Allen would be kind of amazing at it. He would be my pick anyway. Craig's got to see that one. Cooper Dejean. New category idea from John Hageman. Here it is. Was there a porn parody of this movie? He just wants to know. Could be a quiz-style format that would generate some surprising results. I'm pretty sure the answer is yes for the Blair Witch Project.

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778.262

I immediately thought about how bad this would be for Google and viruses searching for this stuff. I did find a Reddit thread of... like 150 porn parody titles that actually happened.

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792.354

It was not.

The Rewatchables

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801.38

I went through and found some that have actually been done of movies we did on the rewatchables, including Shaving Ryan's Privates, Titty Slickers, I don't remember that one, Forrest Hump, The Sperminator, Come and Comer, Oh, yeah. No, that existed. What about boob? Die hard on.

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822.234

Good. When Harry fucked Sally. Good. Legs wide shut. Goodwill humping. My best friend's wedding with two Ts. And then glad he ate her.

The Rewatchables

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833.294

we should make you guys come up with the porn title for every movie there's something there I do think it is going to be when we're doing one now doing one going forward I will check to see if there was a porn parody so like for Manchester by the Sea what would be the porn parody they probably didn't do that one do they still make porn parodies now it's just like now they just do scenes do they even make movies anymore that's why I was asking Craig he's younger Craig's like no comment I don't know

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862.441

Category idea from Jordan Grimmer. Best, worst, five-word summary of the movie. Similar to Bill's movie trailer elevator pitch idea. Panelists offer their best or worst five-word summary of the movie or their impression of the movie. Example, heat. An LA bank heist unravels or a guy reads book about metals.

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88.058

Really? Yeah.

The Rewatchables

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884.713

So I guess before we get in the categories, we would all have to do a five-word summary of the movie.

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890.036

I'm not against this.

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896.02

Yeah, we're explaining to Craig what the movie is in five words.

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905.565

I don't know I like the game of it we may try it for a couple Italian American family eats dinner yeah a big picture question from Captain Jack what movie I'm glad Captain Jack's doing well by the way what movie have you always wanted to do but you were scared nobody would listen also what movie have you always wanted well also what movie have you always wanted to do and are scared nobody would listen but you're doing it anyway hmm

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940.819

We'll never actually do it.

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947.724

Blu-ray 4K, Cruising coming out in March.

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95.645

He's really good, but Allison is the best. Well, Craig's been our producer since, for how many years? Since 2018? Yeah, 2018. We had Zach Mack initially, then Craig moved in and we've woven him into the podcast. He's hosted a couple. we decided he had to be involved in the mailbag. I have a lot of mailbag questions. Thanks to everybody who mailed them into the rewatchables33 at gmail.com.

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952.407

The 4K. Are we doing the re-cruising when that comes out?

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959.696

All right, so the movie I've always wanted to do, but I was scared nobody would listen is Eddie and the Cruisers, which we've talked about forever.

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968.565

It's not on streaming. You and I, you told me it was on TMC. I have it on cable. It's saved on my thing. Craig's never seen it. It really hurts my feelings that it's not available. Everything's available.

The Rewatchables

‘Close Encounters of the Third Kind’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

2870.925

That was really close. Area 31 is out of 340 on the traffic.

The Rewatchables

‘Close Encounters of the Third Kind’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

62.995

Close Encounters of the Third Kind. The experience of an ordinary man shared by people from all over the world, drawn to a single spot by a compulsion they don't understand to witness the most dramatic event in the history of the human race. And when the communication begins, it is fantastic. Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

The Rewatchables

‘Days of Thunder’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt

117.221

Go, go, go. The speed. You're very quick.

The Rewatchables

‘Days of Thunder’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt

126.099

The power. You want to control something that's out of control?

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‘Days of Thunder’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt

3135.55

Well, looks like we found something.

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‘Days of Thunder’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Kyle Brandt

3141.792

Right here. Now, the only question is... ...will he actually use it?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1006.77

It's funny, this happens sometimes on the show where the person joins the show, either start of the season or sometimes mid-season. And you know, right away, like Kristen wig was on. It was like within two episodes, like, Oh, this is easy. Hater was like that. Um, and Myers was definitely like that.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1024.071

What's weird is there were some people that I remember really like Andy Sandberg's another good one. I remember, uh, Ben Stiller. Yep. had a couple really funny things during, I think he was only on for like eight, nine episodes, but it seemed like they had something there and it just didn't happen. Sarah Silverman was another one. She was on Weekend Update a few times and I thought killed.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And we were like, who's this? This girl's great. And then was gone. So I don't know what Lauren's calculus is for some of these. Myers ended up sticking around.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1063.159

Tim Robinson was a latest one. Like the mid-2010s just didn't make it and probably should have. So Myers, pretty... And there's been a few SNL books and there's been a lot written about the show pretty early on. It's clear. He's an artist. He's a little bit of an atypical SNL cast member. A little difficult.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And this becomes part of the Myers kind of legacy as we go from the last couple years of SNL, Wayne's World, all the way through Austin Powers. There's multiple...

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1098.118

really harsh pieces written about him like a vanity fair piece in 2000 there's an entertainment weekly you can go find these pieces online um he said his dad died in 1991 and he kind of went on a spiritual quest after that and just he admits that he got a little strange but um

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1116.513

The Carvey stuff with this movie, Carvey versus Myers, and all of the research, which a lot of people know, is this... I didn't know any of it in the early 90s. A really fascinating part of this movie. Myers didn't want Carvey in the movie. He wanted it to just be Wayne. After the movie, a couple years later...

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1135.475

He kind of openly steals Carvey's Dr. Evil, which was a Lorne Michaels impersonation, just turns it into Dr. Evil. And Carvey's pissed about it for 20 years. They don't talk. And that becomes part of the baggage of this movie in a not great way. Do you care?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1204.813

And Carvey said it was a complete betrayal. I guess in the last couple of years, they've buried the hatchet. They're apparently good friends now and they're doing the whole thing. And I think Myers has apologized to him. But I think especially in the SNL circles, the people around the show, the writers, I think they were kind of shocked by the Dr. Evil thing for two reasons.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1225.748

One, that it was such a blatant Lauren invitation. And then two, that he took this thing that Carvey did No, the counter would be everybody imitated Lauren. You imitate your boss. That's what you do. But according to research, Mike didn't want Dana in the movie. He acted like a crazy star in the set. The director did not like him.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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By 2008, Entertainment Weekly wrote about Myers, his unique brand of humor driven by outside absurdist characters, psych eggs, and elaborately constructed and at times esoteric wordplay. may be falling out of fashion as audiences drift toward more grounded, relatable comedies, like Knocked Up.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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But then they add, the degree of enmity directed toward Myers by some who've worked with him, even years after the fact, is rare. Says one executive who added a rocket relationship with Myers, I honestly root against him. And there's way more stuff. And it's just like one guy, there's another exec in that thing. He's like, he's a great conversationalist, fun to talk to. It's all brain.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He's not able to intuit anything real or natural about human experience. The truth is for a lot of comedians, there's like a degree of Asperger's syndrome. His just seems more acute. These are things written in like national magazines about Mike Myers. So difficult guy made Wayne's World 2, making that happen, difficult too. And guess what?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I don't care because the movie made me laugh the entire time I watched it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Carvey had done Opportunity Knocks, a movie that didn't make it. And this ends up being the most successful movie that he's in. There's a lot of mystery why he wasn't a bigger movie star, why at least he didn't have like a Will Ferrell arc. And I don't really have the answer.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1352.745

And I don't know at the very least why he didn't have some sort of like John C. Reilly type of comedy career, where maybe he's not the main guy, but he's always in great parts. for eight, nine years. Um, he, he, he got, he had some sort of illness at some point. I forget it was the late nineties, early two thousands. I think that screwed it up a little bit. He had a family.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I don't, maybe he didn't want it as badly as some others, but I feel like we're like for Dana Carvey, great movie parts short looking back now.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You know what we can talk about? Rob Lowe's comeback movie.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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We love Rob Lowe in this podcast. Rob Lowe. Yes.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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incredible 80s just banging out hits yep huge part of the pop culture and then uh had a had a sex tape thing and it seemed like his career was over but lauren michaels loved him because he was a great snl host he hosted one of the best snl episodes of that entire era one of the sketch was sketches was uh he played carcinio no no he didn't play carcinio he played uh he played arsenio yeah

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And had like these long fingers and was just doing the whoop, whoop, whoop. He was amazing. It was like, Rob Lowe's funny? Nobody had any idea. So Michaels filed it away and then cast him as the evil TV executive.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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All right. Kyle Brand is here. Usually we do bad action movies and we celebrate the careers of Stallone and Van Damme. And I call him Van Damme and Van Damme. And, you know, I screw that up. But we're doing Wayne's World. This was a special request from you from like six months ago. Why? Yeah.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah, and I think maybe he was in Sprockets, but I just remember him being great. And by the time he got into this movie, it wasn't surprising. He ends up being in Tommy Boy, and it resuscitates his career. He ends up on West Wing. He's really good in this. Michaels picked a director who had only made really music documentaries, who was in her mid-40s, Penelope Spheeris. Yep.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1488.928

because he liked their documentaries, and he felt like this needed a hard-driving musical edge. It was a very unusual choice. It worked, because the movie's good. It was written by Bonnie and Terry Turner, who had an SNL pedigree and went on to write a whole bunch of stuff. $20 million budget, $183.1 million it makes. It's the 10th biggest movie of 1992.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Had to have a sequel, which we'll talk about later. Roger Ebert... Three stars. Good, good. See? He said, I walked into Wayne's World expecting a lot of dumb, vulgar comedy, and I got plenty. But I also found what I didn't expect, a genuinely amusing, sometimes even intelligent undercurrent. Raj! He's back. Raj likes story and comedy.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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All right, we're going to take a break, and then we're going to do the categories. mix it up a little bit. I'm starting with what's the most 1992 thing about this movie. Okay. Because the answer is actually everything, but I'll give you some choices and then feel free to throw in some more. There's a commercial for the clapper. Yeah.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Great Poupon parodies, Alice Cooper, meatloaf, nostalgic casting, Laura Flynn Boyle. When she was kind of like, hell yes. Kind of a, kind of a little bit hot career wise. Yeah. There's a conversation about the two Darren Stevenses that I guarantee producer Craig wasn't following. You have cameos from Ione Sky, who was in Say Anything. Ed O'Neill, who's married with children, and Chris Farley.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You've Donna Dixon, about 10 years removed from being a true TV babe icon from Bosom Buddies, who now married to Dan Aykroyd. Portable CD players in a car.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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That just made me happy. Rob Lowe's ties. I don't know if you noticed some of the ties he had. That was like that era that was in with just like the craziest designs possible. You never wear one of those ties on a TV set now. Never. People would think you were like trying to raise money for some sort of charity. Successful arcade owners might be my pick.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And then a Scooby-Doo ending would be my last one. Is there anything else you would have for this?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It's beautiful. I think I had four different versions of that card disc because it would just get stolen. The moment you forgot to lock a door or leave a window open, that thing was just getting pulled out.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Oh, yeah. I had that one. That was like the first one.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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What's the perfect age to see this movie? What did you have for this?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I think college really hit home in college, but I think it's like sophomore, junior, senior college somewhere in there. It's perfect. Cause a lot of the pop culture stuff, you have to be kind of old enough to get.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I never watched, but which, but I got the two Darren's joke. Like there wasn't a single joke in that movie that I didn't get, even though I was just old enough to have a history for it. And then the devil wears Prada word for, is this movie actually perfect for to try to do? I'm going to say yes.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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yeah they said it's like a 9.7 yeah and a wholly fully realized world with friends and characters and rock bands it was great most rewatchable scene opening scene you think it's an snl sketch and then it blows out bohemian rhapsody let's go i think we'll go with a little bohemian rhapsody gentlemen good call

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Probably my answer. It brings me the most joy. The first time they did it, Or the first time you saw the movie, kind of didn't know what was happening, and it was so goofy and silly, but so much fun to watch. It kind of resuscitated Queen.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Not that Queen was dead, but all of a sudden the song was number two. It had been out for I don't know how many years. It rose to number two in the rankings because the music video, everything about it. And then great Chicago footage. I mean, it's Aurora, but it's like there's a couple of Chicago adjacent landmarks. What else did you like?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I was not, you know, we didn't have a lot of musical choices in the 80s from a library standpoint because rock had only really existed since the late 60s. Yeah. Bohemian Rhapsody was not like a song that I was put on mixtapes. It was not a song we were cranking. It completely reinvented the song, even though the song was there the whole time, and then became this legendary song.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I'm sure the giant diehard Queen fans were like, no, no, we always knew that was it. I'm just saying for the general population, It was always We Are the Champions and Another One Bites the Dust were like the two giant queen dust songs.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I was really worried because I had watched Pieces, but I hadn't watched Start to Finish probably in five or six years, but had seen it, I don't know how many times, in the 90s and 2000s. And I was a little worried. I was like, is this movie trapped in 92? Is producer Craig going to be shitting on it at the end of the podcast? Mm-hmm.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1955.0

Myers was right. A parent allegedly threatened to walk off the set if they didn't listen to him on it. I think from a nostalgia standpoint, what we talked about earlier with like, this is a movie made by people raised by 70s and 80s pop culture. It made sense. And it's just fucking funny. It's like, it's campy. It's good.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1974.257

The music video, which was on for a year, and it always ended with Myers getting out of the car and doing that thing with his hands. Right. I can't tell you how many times I watched it. That was the Hyde MTV. That was the Beavis and Butthead era. Great Chicago footage. It has the stop by to look at the guitar. It will be mine. Oh, yes. It will be mine.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

1998.224

It has the stealth Garth not knowing the words.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2011.997

uh i think it has wins two extra words the kid cuddy pursuit of happiness award for best needle drop and then the okay motherfucker the award for the exact moment when the movie just goes up a notch because it's like oh it's just gonna be a wayne's world sketch and they're gonna look at the camera it's like oh shit now we're doing now we're doing bohemian rhapsody and a 1976 pacer yes that's what we're doing yes

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2035.595

And it goes right into the cop when they meet the cop. Does anyone smell bacon? I don't know. It still makes me laugh.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2046.857

Great. Next one. Stan Mikita's donuts right into the nightclub. I'm just combining those scenes. Ed O'Neill is Glenn, the manager. He's a fucking serial killer, apparently. Donna Dixon, Stacy, the psycho hose beast. We go to the nightclub, we get Meatloaf as the manager, which was like really, really impressive stunt casting in 1992. I don't know if the impact's still there.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. We get the shitty Beatles mentioned.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2084.022

We find out Crucial Taunt is just wrapping up their set. Yep. We get Tia Carrere singing Fire. Garth Tate is doing somebody, Dreamweaver, another callback to a big 70s song. And then my favorite part of this whole scene when he's trying to hit on Tia Carrere after and he says, And you are?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2121.254

And then for us, like they'd use this in the sketches, but she makes me feel kind of funny. Like when I climbed the rope in gym class was a joke for the entire nineties for me with my friends. We would say every girl we would talk about like that.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

213.1

I laughed the entire time and my wife came in for probably 40% of it. And she was just like, wow, this one really makes you giggle, huh? I was like, it just does. It hits my funny bone. Uh, I don't know why. I don't know why it's still funny. A lot of this stuff is so dated. I can't wait to talk about some of the dated stuff, but tied into SNL.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2154.198

A lot of these comedies from the 80s and 90s, the first hour or the first 45 minutes is usually the best part. And I think this probably leans that way too. The first hour is just a home run. But the first 15, 20 minutes is not a wasted minute. Really great. Really funny. Next one, Rob Lowe offers them a contract. They're at that bar with that big...

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2175.748

big drink the pineapple thing up front yeah we're between lawyers right now and then garth says i grabbed him by his big fat head i said listen man i'm not gonna go to jail for you or anybody uh we get the twilight zone analogy too and then we get the we got five thousand dollars theme song i really like that scene everybody used to walk around saying i've got five thousand dollars that's one of the thousand things you'd say from this movie and it's it's a fun little scene and low is good in it as well as usual

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2203.689

Watching airplanes take off is really fun when they're talking about Tia. In French, she would be called Le Bernard. She's Babraham Lincoln.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Craig, without spoiling your take at the end, did you find that funny or absolutely ridiculous?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Bugs Bunny. Was Bugs Bunny attractive when he wore a dress? It's an argument when you're lying on a car watching airplanes go by. I don't know. It would have made time.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2248.638

The Foxy Lady scene is probably Carvey's greatest minute in the movie. And he's just a really special comic talent. I don't know if anyone else other than maybe Jim Carrey pulls that off from a physical standpoint. Just really good.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2293.513

Well, I have this team with Myers in the underwear scene because both of them just physically are so funny in that. But Myers trying to mess with her when she's on the phone. He's in his underwear and he's walking around. It's just like he does some of that and so I married an axe murderer too. It's just like I'm just going to laugh. I'm sorry. I'm always going to think that's funny.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2314.427

Rob Lowe's apartment. Next rewatchable scene. A fully functional babe lair. Babe lair, yeah. He's got a Rolodex. Wayne orders the cream of some young guy. I laughed. Who wants Chinese takeout? I know a great place.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

233.03

Uh, this was the second sketch movie they ever turned into an action or a second sketch to actually turned into a movie. Um, improbable. I remember watching SNL in college and it was a 10 to one sketch. They used to call them. It was the last sketch before the closing credits where they were just kind of shove stuff that were like passion projects for the cast or like the weirdest sketch they had.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2345.639

Rob Lowe orders in Cantonese. I still say it. This guy's good. The first new Wayne's world show I have in there with the Noah arcades, the present sign where they're like, what the fuck is the generic announcer? Wayne changes the index cards. That's great. Then Wayne gets fired. Garth has toast. And then, uh, I put the third ending. It's pretty funny.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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All the ending, the super happy ending makes me laugh. Anything else you got?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2394.038

Yeah. So what do you got for most rational rhapsody?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2408.505

Wood's aged the best. We talked about all the Myers-Carvey, just the intrigue of their relationship aged really nicely. A Chris Farley cameo. It's great to see him.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Super early for him, too. Yeah, and he was funny, and he was doing his...

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2433.823

I mentioned the music video. The no stairway to heaven sign in the music store. Okay. Just great. I don't know if that still happens, but that was the go-to song for anybody learning how to tune a guitar in 1992.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Because they couldn't get the rights.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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So in the research... They said they didn't want to pay the $100,000 for the VHS and the DVD. And so instead they mangled the movie. It's $100,000. I can't imagine how many people bought the Wayne's World VHS. Like they definitely could have paid for it. And it fucked up the movie like forever. And then when they finally did like the Blu-ray, I think, three years ago, they fixed it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I had a different spot for her later. I'm happy to do this now. I never understood why she wasn't in more stuff and she wasn't bad. Like she was in true lies. Like she was in some good stuff. She had a good career. She was a curb, your enthusiasm, even with a, she played Richard Lewis's girlfriend. Yeah.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

256.023

And this was one of the, I think this and the Barry Gibb talk show, uh, are the two most famous 10 to 1 sketches. So they shove it in. They start doing it over and over again. It's right when Myers is starting to kind of take off. First, when he joined the cast, it's like, this guy's name's Mike Myers? Like Michael Myers?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2570.788

But everybody I knew loved her. And I almost feel like this feels like yet another Hollywood feeling, somebody who is actually talented. But there was some extra awesome part for her that I don't know what it was. Because she was really talented.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Come on. I know you're on that. Who are you talking to? I know you're on that. Who are you talking to? I thought she hung with the comedy really well and was a good wingman because we've seen, especially in these 90s, 2000 comedies,

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I thought Beyonce really struggled in the third Austin Powers movie, but Heather Graham, even though I wouldn't call her the greatest actress, was kind of good at playing off... Off Austin. But then Elizabeth Hurley, who I wouldn't have expected, was really good. You just kind of never know. And they would just always throw in. But she was great, I thought, with playing off Wayne.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2662.347

But I think Aurora, Illinois, I think maybe that was one of the things they were going for. I think they were. Craig, bringing you in again. Tia Carrera. What were your thoughts watching this and what did you leave with like wondering what other stuff she did?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2706.745

Yeah, Hollywood failed her. There was a couple other places. There was also not a lot of people like her in Hollywood at that time. So too bad. What else do you have?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And quickly, he had Wayne's World sprockets, turns into a star. And at some point, news came out they were making this movie.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I'm just, I just want to put my seatbelt on if you're going where I think you're going.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I had it in What's Aged the Best because it does a nice job of 70s, early 80s nostalgia stuff like Dreamweaver, Behemian Rhapsody. It also has Black Sabbath. It has Eric Clapton, Alice Cooper with Feed My Frankenstein, which I guess he insisted on his manager wanted him to play that instead of one of his hits. Not his best song.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2787.405

You have Tia Carrere, dude in the Ballroom Blitz, the re-recording of that one. And the Red Hot Chili Peppers song you mentioned and a whole bunch of other stuff. Hendrix. And Hendrix, which is probably the most fun Hendrix song you could have put in a movie other than Hey Joe. But it's basically three different genres of music that they're weaving into it. I know.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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So I don't know. Do you remember even hearing that when you were a teenager or an almost teenager? Yeah.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I also thought, what was Tia's band? I'm blanking.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The crucial taunt wasn't bad. Kind of like a high end club band. Like if you, if you were on a Wednesday night in Aurora, like, Oh, crucial taunts playing. This is great.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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A couple more. What's the best Dutch door action.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Is that a real thing? Or do you think Myers invented that on the spot?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Is that a possible production company for you? Dutch door action productions? Your new production company?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2863.13

rob lowe saying literally in this movie then apparently on parks and rec that became like the guy's catchphrase that he played on parks and rec so apparently did you not watch parks and rec bill i i saw some of them i didn't see all of them i'm the same boat i wasn't a huge guy yeah um

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2881.769

I didn't put this as a rewatchable scene because I only really like one part, but the Alice Cooper, the Millie Wacke.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2889.294

One of my college roommates, Chip Cain, was from Milwaukee, and we just changed it to Millie Wacke from that point on. We went to see him. We're like, we're going to go to Millie. I'd never heard it before. We loved it. Got like six, seven years out of that.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2920.686

He thought he was just like doing like a handshake scene. He didn't realize he was speaking.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

2943.815

Yeah, I had that too. Also, the blue screen taping, not quite good enough for a rewatchable scene, but when they're in the different cities and then it gets to Delaware, it's, hi! I'm in Delaware. Really funny because I have some of the Simmons family lives in Delaware, so we got a lot of enjoyment out of that.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Right. The Brandon content segment's funny.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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For 1992, it was right when we were kind of losing our minds with people shoehorning products and this stuff. How'd you feel about street hockey and Blackhawks jerseys?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3015.403

And that was in the trailer, I remember. Yeah. in the commercial when they were running the commercial endlessly. It was always her going into it. Led Zeppelin didn't write tunes that everyone liked. They left that to the Bee Gees. It just stays the best. People still love the Bee Gees. 33 years later, Wayne was calling it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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So Carvey did his own drum playing for the music shop scene and is apparently a talented drummer. That was really him and just 100% authentic.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Would you have lusting after Claudia Schiffer in What's Aged the Best or What's Aged the Worst? Or both?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Best for me, but I don't know if it's aged well because like, does how many people under like 35 remember Claudia Schiffer?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I have two more What's Aged the Best. I kind of enjoy Tia's music. I'm just going to be honest. I listen to it. She's doing all covers. I enjoyed the passion. She's really into it. Good performer. Just kind of fun to watch. It could have gone way worse is my point.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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That's probably the worst one and it's still solid.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah, it's like before it's time, not as good hole. I like the Lita Ford. I think you're right there. All right. Bits that age the best. We'll also be doing this for what stage the worst. Okay. No way. Way. I think still works. All the time. Thumbs up. Yeah, that's what she said. Still funny.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Still works. I believe I requested the hand job. Still funny. The Terminator 2 cop, which should be dated, the cameo, but I think still works because that movie's iconic and everybody knows who the Terminator 2 cop is and it's still good.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3179.76

That was probably one of the three biggest movies in 1991. So it was a good cameo. And then I still feel like the Oscar clip, extreme closeup, all that stuff still works. I wasn't embarrassed laughing at it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3202.458

Great shot, Gord or a word for most cinematic shot. Probably something with the airplane flying over them, the way they shot it with those guys down. I mean, this isn't like the crazy best directing.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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What'd you have for the chest Rockwell and Brock Landers award for best character name? Would you go with Garth Algar or would you go something else?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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All right. Flex category. I gave you a couple of choices, sent you all the backup categories. What do you got for us?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3277.051

if benjamin was a nice cream flavor he'd be pralines and dick i still laugh at that too pralines and dick is a horse name perfect that's great i love that one butch's girlfriend award weak link of the film this is hard i'd say i i'm nitpicking because i love this movie but the last like 25 minutes probably just isn't as good as the first hour would be my nitpick

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah, you know, all these comedies have the same issue. Would you have gone with something else?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I think, first of all, you're lucky that this was your cast. And you're right. When you're 12, 13, your first SNL cast becomes your favorite cast. Yeah. I think this was the best four-year stretch in the history of the show. I think they had more important stretches. I think you could talk about the... Season three and four with Belushi and Aykroyd and Bill Murray and Gilda Radner.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Well, and also he had him in So I Married an Axe Murderer. So it's not like he, and he also stole that movie for five minutes. I even thought he could have played the guy who owned the record company at the end.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You know, they filmed it right before that SNL season started. And that part of it was that 37 days to make the movie. And then they had to get right to the first week SNL. And I wonder maybe if Hartman just had like the month off or something. It's a great point though. We're going to take a break and then we'll do what's aged the worst. All right. What's aged the worst. I got to say it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3389.841

An extended Laverne and Shirley parody for anyone under 35. It's just flying right over your head. There's no way you're getting one moment of that. I can't even believe Laverne and Shirley was the number one show. It got to number one. It was the number one show in like 1980. It was the biggest show on TV. 1979, 1980, somewhere in there. And now nobody would even know what that meant.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It'd be Modern Family, I think, is a good comparison.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3437.555

Yeah. Worked for me. What takes it worse? Wayne's World 2? What's your relationship with this movie?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3471.946

It was strange when it happened. And I saw The Doors twice in the theater. I love The Doors, but I was like, wow, really? We're doing this? And I think it's really hurt the movie because it's this really elaborate Doors parody. It's got a graduate homage at one point. And I think it's dated way, way, way, way worse than Wayne's World 1. Wayne's World 2, it's like, wow, what is this?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

352.384

And you could say that. You could say Eddie's like two and a half year peak. Some people love that. I get it. You could say the Will Ferrell, basically late 90s leading into the Gore Bush election. You could talk about the cast with Sudeikis and Hader and Kristen Wiig and Amy Poehler and all that. You could go there. Ferrell.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3520.39

It felt like they had to start filming and they needed an idea. And he had about 20 minutes to bet where he was like, what if, uh, how about this? And they just kind of let him go. Um, what's the worst? Dana Carvey develops severe pain in his jaw. Cause he had to do Garth's underbait for like 35 days and had to like have ice on his face at night. Cause he was always like doing that weird thing.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And, uh, I don't know. It's a gamer that Dana Carvey.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3553.338

Um, learning English from the police Academy movies definitely is age. The worst.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Here would be how it went. You would just have to text me and say, can we do Police Academy? I'd be like, okay, fine. Twist my arm. The movie was like the number four movie of 1985 or whatever.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And then my last one, stage the worst, is stoned honking guy from Bohemian Rhapsody, Phil.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Who they pull in, don't honk in the car. Yeah. I don't know if we needed him again after that scene. I might have told him you didn't need to come back. Yeah, that's it. I think we were one and done with that. Maybe work in another character at that point.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3615.965

Well, so I had the bits that aged the worst. I have not. I have swing and the we're not worthy are the three that felt really stale to me all these years later.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3654.366

Yeah, it was a top five catchphrase from the show over the last 50 years that seeped into real culture. Everybody said it. People would also missay it and mangle it and do it incorrectly. And you knew it was getting bad when it was on like SportsCenter.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3669.98

Like a SportsCenter anchor would try to do a knot and it would just go badly. Like, all right, I guess we're done with this now. And Glenn Rice's money from the corner, knot, brick.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It's the official end of knot, yeah.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3698.439

I'd like to stick my penis in you, not.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3706.366

We're doing Borat this year. That's 100% happening. Do you have any other What Stage is the Worst?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3716.154

The Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge Overacting Award, which I think in this case is an underacting award for Frankie Sharp of Sharp Records. Yes. I can only assume like Christopher Walken was supposed to have that part and called in sick day of, and they just like grab somebody. That guy is the worst actor in this movie by far. I have no idea why he's in the movie. No idea. None.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I just think that from 89 to 92, the show had been around long enough that all the people who were on it had kind of grown up affected by it. So it was like second generation and they were just loaded. I think Carvey and Myers and Hartman and it was fucking, it's crazy. Look back that you've Farley and Sandler as like, just kind of coming off the bench, shooting a couple of threes as 10th men.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3749.991

It's really bad. He's so bad. I can't believe that's who they picked for that part. All right, you have another flex category. What do you got?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3801.933

It seemed like I, you know, he did the Dana Carvey show in the mid nineties, 96 versus not trying to really jump on, on the movie thing. I think he stayed in SNL one year too long.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3813.095

He had to do two Wayne's World movies coming out of the gate. The second one wasn't as well received. But he just missed his... He never had his Ace Ventura. If Jim Carrey doesn't have Ace Ventura, does Jim Carrey happen in the same way? I don't know. He certainly was talented enough for it to happen. But you still need the one movie. Will Ferrell was in Night at the Roxbury. Didn't do well. No.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He was in a couple other things. Didn't do well. But then Old School happened. And then it was like, okay, I'm ready for Will Ferrell to be a movie star. And Dana just... Never had his thing. There might be part of it where he was like a better character actor than as a leading man who's going to get the girl in the end. Maybe there's something about him that it didn't totally work.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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But he was so good and so smart and such a hilarious guy. I don't understand where his Ace Ventura was at least.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. And he became a big family guy. I don't think he has a lot of regrets either. I think he did fine and just threw himself into the family thing and took himself out of the Hollywood race.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3930.305

I think the mistake he made, now that we're talking about it, he was such a good musician. The thing that got him hired on SNL was the Chopping Broccoli sketch. You watch him in the first couple seasons. He was the rarest of SNL talents because he could basically do any form of a sketch. He could sing, he could perform, but he was a very old-school 70s performer.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And like you mentioned Lothar, um,

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3954.93

Maybe that Derek Stevens character could have been the movie. Yeah. I don't know. I'm with you though. Sometimes the Hartman thing never really made sense to me either. I mean, it felt like he could have carried, been the number one guy on an awesome comedy on like NBC or ABC. Instead, he was like a side character.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

3980.977

I love Carvey. I'm glad his podcast is so successful now. But yeah, it's weird. I think you just need like that one... that one part, Sandler kind of grabbed the bull by the horns and like he made happy Gilmore. And like, he, he really like tried to make his own shit, Billy Madison, then happy Gilmore. And he tried to make his own shit and control his own destiny. And maybe Dana.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

40.148

The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we are on YouTube with Ringer Movies, where you can find all the episodes and clips from this. But now, some breaking news. We're on video every episode for Spotify. If you have Spotify, if you're watching on your phone, put it in your pocket, or you could go, no, I'm going to actually look at these guys.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award. Wayne's World, the first YouTube video ever.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4031.075

Everything they're doing in Wayne's World, and they called it cable access back then, just kind of became YouTube. And I'm wondering, is YouTube just cable access? Like, are we just thinking about it wrong? Everything that worked on cable access on local channels and then just like strip it down. All you need is one cameraman. He can be drunk. It's fine. Some bad lighting. It's okay.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You can do this in your basement. And this just is now a lot of content all over the place. Really successful.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Hak'tu'a. I think it's already over for her.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You're worried about Hak'tu'a. Live fast, lift a good-looking corpse. Is it... I don't know. To me, it's like one of these weird video, almost like one of these player podcasts, like Jeff Teague's podcast. Yes. Just becoming like a podcast that people watch. And it's basically the 30 plus years later of this. It's like, I'm going to hang out with my friends.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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We might have a guest every once in a while.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Well... 15 years later, this is just a YouTube show. The cable access thing is gone.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's 2008. It just is what it is. Do you have a hottest take or keep going?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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If you want to put it against- Over like Airplane? Yeah.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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When you first started doing TV, did you think about Wayne's World? I thought about it every single time.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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21st century, probably anchorman. Yeah, Anchorman has the most material to work with, I think, scene by scene. Just things where people would understand what you're doing.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4245.27

Casting what ifs don't really have anything other than Michael's wanting to do Guns N' Roses and getting overruled. And then Cooper's manager... doing Feed My Frankenstein when Myers wanted him to do I'm 18 or School's Out. He said, no, no, we got this new song. I kind of wish he had done School's Out, but I don't mind Feed My Frankenstein. It's so weird. Best That Guy Award.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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There's some really good ones. There's a winner.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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There's a winner, but I just wanted to give a shout out to Brian Doyle Murray. Who's Brian Doyle Murray, but he's also that guy. Sure. Kurt Fuller, who's Rob Lowe's sidekick, who was the bad guy in No Holds Barred. He basically played the Vince McMahon character. And he's just a Hall of Fame, that guy. I actually know his name, so I don't know if he counts as that guy.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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So there's a legitimate, that guy... He's the guy with the round face and the mustache. At the counter. Then was that Curb Your Enthusiasm as the Amco guy. Yes. And had that great episode with Larry and Amco. I don't even know what that guy's name is.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4332.717

Okay, but the obvious winner is Beecher from Oz as one of Wayne's entourage, the guy who kept saying, I love you, man. And eventually, six, seven years later, he was on Oz saying, I love you, man, to the guy that they ended up, Schillinger, and ended up in some of the most psychotic scenes in the history of HBO. And it's so funny to see Beecher in this movie. I think his name's Glenn Turgason.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I can't remember his name, but I just see him. It's Beecher.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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That's him. Oh, he wins. That's even better than Beecher.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Wow, that's even better than Beecher. It's good. I didn't even catch that one. Great one. Great job. Dion Waiters Award. I'll give you a final four of Ed O'Neill, the Wayne's World announcer, Alice Cooper, or Chris Farley, unless you want to throw anyone else in there. Or Officer Karharski, we'll throw him in too.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah, it's tough that Cooper doesn't win this, but I think it is O'Neal.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4454.952

recasting couch director city so can we have some fun with noah's arcades noah arcade his wife who oh it's like yeah um could we could we we're going a little meadow with this movie in general could that have been heather thomas i'm just gonna gonna spitball dude could that have been jacqueline smith could that have been suzanne summers uh-huh

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

448.493

Yeah, that's true. I remember in college, we would tape it because we were out and we'd watch it on Sunday mornings. And every once in a while, they'd have the Sinatra group sketch and we couldn't handle it. I can't imagine the show. Now it's like everything's online immediately. There's just no way. There's the communal effect of the show.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4480.333

Like, could we have taken somebody from, could that have been Aaron Gray? Could we have taken somebody that we're all in love with in the late 70s, early 80s and just shoved them there as like, oh my God, her.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4505.812

Or like a Victoria Principle. I just feel like you grab somebody from that early 80s apex, throw them in there. I'm having more fun. So MyFlex, did this movie have a porn parody? Turns out it did. It was called Zane's World. And you can watch all of the actual plot with no sex on YouTube. It's got 14 minutes of all the sex cut out, but the actual thing is...

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And you're going to think you're going to want to watch 30 seconds of it, but I'm telling you, you're going to keep going. It is. It's a Biff Malibu plays Zane and Tom Byron. The great veteran, he's Garth with a wig on. They're doing the do-do-do, do-do-do, do-do-do. Madison and Trixie Tyler are in it. Oh, great.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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But this is one of the funnier YouTube clips that you think you're only going to watch for 10 seconds and you can't stop watching. They have the van. They do the whole thing. And yet Wayne is Zane and sex ensues, not comedy.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I don't want to step on the clip because I really think you're going to enjoy it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I don't want to spoil it. It's on YouTube. I actually did not know that this was a whole YouTube genre, which was people taking 80s and 90s porn movies and cutting out all the sex and just having the plot as like a 14 minute YouTube clip. I support it. I think it's a great idea. Kudos to whoever came up with that.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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We don't see the sex. Like somebody starts unbuttoning a button and it's, it's just the next scene.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The original Zayn's world on DVD.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4619.885

Half-assed internet research. We talked about no stairway to heaven. We talked about Myers being a dick. Spheeris had some quotes about him, the director. Emotionally needy and got more difficult as the shoot went along. That was one. You should have heard him bitching when I was trying to do that Bohemian Rhapsody scene. I can't move my neck like that. Why do we have to do this so many times?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4640.36

No one's going to laugh at this. She said on one occasion he stormed off the set because there was no margarine for his bagel. Got to do it. And in one of the features about Myers, his PR person said that there was no truth that he was hyperglycemic and kind of poo-pooed the story. And then they argued about the final cut, and Myers did not let her do Wayne's World 2. So there's that.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4664.961

So the Pacer, a.k.a. the Mirth Mobile, was a 1976 Pacer. The original car was sold and appeared in a 2015 episode of Pawn Stars. It was restored to running condition with the original movie props in the car. A stair system added. Sold in 2016 for $37,400. That's low.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

467.767

There's a really interesting... This is a dopey, stupid movie, right? That we love. But there's a really interesting theme that ties into the early 90s with it. It's about the concept of selling out, which was the single most important theme of Gen X and is in a lot of the movies that are from this era, including some we've already done. It's the theme that drove Reality Bites.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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We're going to cover that during Apex Mountain.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4696.872

So when Wayne speaks Cantonese to Tia. Yeah. He's just, it sounds like he's learned it, but he's just saying gibberish. And she was like, trying not to laugh because he was completely unintelligible.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The scene when they're talking on the hood of the car with the Bugs Bunny dress was the last scene filmed.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4725.481

Fender made a special run of Wayne's World signature Stratocaster guitars right after this movie. And then Stan Mikita's Donuts was a fictional donut shop. The scenes were shot at a Tim Hortons, which is a real donut shop. But I always thought for years that Stan Mikita's was a real place. I was honestly disappointed.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4748.732

I felt let down. Apex Mountain. Myers? No, it's Austin Powers.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4754.352

Carvey, you can make the case. He's still on SNL at this point. This movie's big, and you're buying all kinds of Dana Carvey stock in 1992.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4779.511

Lorne Michaels is an interesting one. Because at that point, you could say it's somewhere in the 70s when the show peaked in 78, 79. But I actually think it's probably in the early 90s when he resuscitated the show and built it back up into a franchise. And now he's dipping into movies. And it really felt like he was becoming a mogul in a completely different way. So I'm going to say yes.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4807.435

Right. It felt like there was 20 more coming.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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From a talent standpoint, they're just cherry picking all of the funniest people. Like he's, he's throwing 99 miles an hour. I'm going to say yes. Aurora, Illinois, not a real place.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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They must, they must love that.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4833.558

It's like I saw the McCourty's on Friday night. We're taping this after the Super Bowl. And Sal went up to them and was like, are you guys twins? It's such a joke. He did the parody of the parody. It's almost like it's three steps beyond the joke that they always hear, which they actually thought it was pretty funny.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I'm going to say yes for Tia.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Cause Craig makes the key part. She's disposable in that movie. It could have been 10 different people in this movie. She's not disposable, but I think you're right. Cause that was one of the four biggest movies. Yeah. It's probably True Lies.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4887.731

big deal stan makita probably not there's probably something to happen in the 60s with them great coupon commercial parodies i'm gonna say yes people they were ubiquitous you could not turn on the tv without seeing some party in a rolls royce asking for mustard it was just the thing they did it's i promise all right work with me on this one yeah prostate exam jokes where the guy puts on the glove and somebody's about to be violated it's still fletch

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

490.463

And this movie, even though it's stupid in a good way, Ultimately, it's about these guys had this great little cable access show, and then Rob Lowe, evil Hollywood executive comes in, and he buys the show, he changes it. All of a sudden, there's a narrator at the beginning, party on Wayne and party on Garth. There's a fake theme song. Wade's world, Wade's world.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4915.784

Yeah. It's got to be Fletch.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4938.21

They did have our last president. Probably not. He's probably not Apex Mountain for Delaware.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4947.232

I'm not giving him Apex Mountain.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4952.273

I think you're right. I like it. Shitty Beatles, definitely Apex Mountain. Alice Cooper, no. Rob Lowe, no. I don't know what his Apex Mountain was. I think it was really fun career for me. It's about last night. It's the St. Elmo's fire into about last night. It might be the apex for me too. For me personally, it might be my apex man.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5034.002

Scorsese or Spielberg? Probably Spielberg. This doesn't feel like a Scorsese movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5054.707

Oh, this is great. Crucial Taunt.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5076.005

I was throwing Citizen Dick from Singles.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5078.826

Although I don't know if we actually saw them play. I think they just pretended to be a band.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5086.949

Stillwater was... I mean, they played, what, three songs in front of a crowd of like 20,000 people and the songs were all actually good. I think I downloaded a couple on my Spotify or whatever.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5104.991

I thought what they pulled off with that band where Jason Lee, like his skinny beard, kind of his weird body posture was so 70s and then brought up like the guitar. Yeah, I'm going to go with that.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5117.898

Jennifer, Jennifer roulette, Aniston, Coolidge, Connelly, Garner, Lawrence, Lopez, or Ortega in the Tia spot. Who do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5139.845

You can take her from any part of her career though. You can, you could totally have money train Lopez for this.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

514.066

And it's just like, this was everyone's fear for whatever reason from 91 to 95. It was in all the music. It was in the TV. It was in the movies. Don't sell out. Stay true to yourself.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5159.213

No, I had Lopez because otherwise, as you said, this becomes the whitest movie anyone's ever made. So we really needed Lopez. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? You could talk me into Glenn, the manager. You could also talk me into one of Wayne's entourage people. As the Rob Lowe, I don't think it works, but maybe Rob Lowe's sidekick. I don't know. What do you have?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5190.83

Oh, you're going all in. Okay.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5200.837

Because if you don't, I'm going to take it back. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5205.008

He's wearing an undersized t-shirt.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5211.874

All right. We have a flex category from Craig. What do you got, Craig? What do you got, Craig?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5247.743

So this is probably my biggest one. Okay. there's that scene with Rob Lowe and Garth when Garth's just working on a severed hand for some reason. What the fuck is happening in that scene?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5259.194

Is there any explanation for it? It's not funny. I don't, what, what's going on?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5293.607

Wouldn't Wayne and Cassandra have met before is my next nitpick. She's playing in Aurora.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5301.169

I feel like Crucial Taunt has probably played that club before. There's not like a million clubs in the extended Aurora area.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5315.911

I have one more, but give me yours, and then I have one big one.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5348.902

Well, that feeds into mine. I just feel like all of these guys would have been smoking a ton of pot. I just don't think there's any scenario where Garth is in stone 24 hours a day. And I always thought when I watched the SNL sketch before they made the movie, kind of the under the radar assumption was these guys were huge stoners, but they couldn't get stoned on NBC.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5368.056

So when they made the movie, it was just, oh, clearly Garth's going to have this five foot bong and they're going to do it. But no, nothing.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5399.434

This is a weird Myers thing though. He was very averse to like sex, drugs, anything. That's why when he was in the Studio 54 movie, it was so crazy to see him as the owner just being like, I want to suck your cock. One of the craziest lines of the 90s. I don't have any more nitpicks unless you do.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5433.283

That wouldn't even happen on the NFL network. They would finish the show.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5439.806

Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. They obviously did a sequel. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Burning Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, I'll throw in Gus Johnson, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm? What do you have?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5494.71

Plainview is really winning 2025.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5500.152

Everybody wants to test drive Plainview. I've abandoned Crucial Taunt.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5512.698

Just one Oscar. Who gets it? Would you go Carvey for best supporting? What would you do?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5523.937

Probably unanswerable questions. Was Garth playing with a full deck?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5530.301

Would you say he was on medication? How would he be treated in 2024? Would he be diagnosed with specific things? What was going on there? Was he in a special class in high school? Did he graduate? Was he like a Rain Man type of savant? What's going on with Garth?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5572.935

And then we, you mentioned this earlier and it's gotta be discussed. How old were these guys? Cause I think, so I'll give you a range. Okay. You could tell me they're 19 and the actors are just playing, they're going to Ian's earring and just playing like 35 year olds as, as 21 year olds. You could also tell me they're out of college.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5593.139

You could also tell me they're like 27 to 30, but Garth also seems like he's like 38. Yeah. I don't know the range. What do you think?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

561.362

I mean, the most important sellout moment of the entire nineties was I think Pearl Jam was on time magazine.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5623.368

Yeah, because they can get into clubs, but it's interesting they're not drinking, which almost makes me wonder if they're like 19 or 20. That makes sense. So they're probably supposed to be 23, 24, or we're not supposed to know the answer, and maybe the answer doesn't exist.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5637.199

Any other unanswerables for you?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5641.222

What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want? from this movie. Um, the white guitar would be the obvious Excalibur game used hat or movie used hat. Um, the car would be my number one choice. Cars aren't allowed in this category, but what do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5677.683

Suck cut. Coach Finstock or best life lesson. Don't sell out. Best double feature choice. I could offer you Wayne's World 2 and just make it easy, or we could zag a little bit and go into that kind of Coneheads. We could do a different SNL sketch movie. We could do Opportunity Knox. What do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

569.444

And Eddie Vedder was devastated. It led to like, like all of their album choices for the next four years. They were so upset that, that there was a possible people thinking that they were too mainstream, that they didn't care about their art, their music. And Cobain was always the North star for this stuff. Like he begrudgingly doing everything. All he wanted to do is care about his music.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5698.788

Oh, you're doing Axe Murderer.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5728.897

I think it's Myers, short term.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5732.591

I wonder if it's Carvey long-term because this turned out to be like the funniest he's been in a movie and he's the funniest person in the movie and the person I enjoy the most. So it's almost like first 10 years Myers, but then over the years you could make a better case for queen or Carvey. I think the queen case is sitting there too.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5756.474

I'm team Garth. I think Garth is like the height of comedy for me. He's great. It always made me. And it was right there in the era that Beavis and Butthead era too, where it's just like fuck ups who are kind of funny, but knew their fuck ups just became this cottage industry. Yeah. Garth was really good at that. All right. It's time. I'm nervous. Producer Craig's take. Come on, Craig.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5777.111

Wayne's World. Had you seen it?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5843.38

I'm so glad you think that Craig.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5845.422

I'm really happy. I'm almost like, well, I'm welling up. What was your favorite part?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5871.377

The twilight zone. Like, yeah. When they go. Super weird, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

59.465

You can see Kyle Brandt right now on Spotify. There he is. Look. So going forward, we're going to be doing... All of these as video episodes on Spotify, but you can still listen to it too. If you don't want the video, just turn it off. Anyway, it is SNL 50 week and it just passed. By the time you listen to this, the three hour extravaganza SNL 50 episode will have happened.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

590.635

So anyway, the Wayne's world thing, which now it's, it's 30, 33 years later, it really makes sense that that became the North star for this movie is like, can these guys keep their little, their,

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5906.331

I don't think we got there. I mean, the all-time what if for this is the Sprockets movie, which they, you know, became this huge contentious legal battle because they paid Myers all this money to make it. And he basically backed out of it. And the script was supposed to be funny. And then he decided he didn't like it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5923.016

And I always thought the Sprockets movie, the ceiling of that was really high for me because I thought that was some of the most inventive stuff they were doing on that show.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5943.666

Well, so MacGruber counts, and MacGruber didn't do well, but now I think has aged really nicely. I never even saw that movie. Yeah, I think it's okay now. It was not okay for about four or five years.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5959.864

I there's some weird ones over the years that I think could have worked. Like, I think the Sweeney sisters could have actually been a movie. I don't think they would have made it. I don't think it would have made money, but they were these singing lounge acts at Sixsters that I just felt like that could have potentially worked.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5976.817

You could have taken any Will Ferrell thing and probably flipped it into something.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5986.064

They did a Ladies' Man movie. I forgot they did Ladies' Man.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5991.388

They learned, though. Some of these things were meant to be five, six minutes max, and that's it. Agreed.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

602.262

randy k black's this thing i gotta say i didn't think the show the movie was gonna work um it just seemed inconceivable that they could drag it out for 90 minutes but my faith was in garth who i thought was an all-time comedic genius i loved garth on the sketches and i was like man if they could really explore the studio space with garth maybe we'll have something with this movie and then garth is like you know the mvp of the movie he's amazing

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6025.633

you people want to sell out but they also really resent super rich people it's good it's like that's what too it's like a complete seesaw the other way it's like what can i do i will i will spawn con anything you give me if you pay me yeah

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6048.293

I knew this might be coming.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6069.659

Kyle, I'm having trouble breathing.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6093.235

Why don't we have you here? Did you watch Blues Brothers or no?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6099.849

You weren't on the pod last week because you were in New Orleans.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6128.683

I think that's fair. It's a movie that really belongs to that decade that was absolutely completely beloved. And I could get why that didn't. I gotta say, I'm really surprised Wayne's World lived up to 33 years of still being funny.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6168.216

That's great. Great. Um, Craig and I played craps on Friday night in New Orleans.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6176.465

Craig was thrown the dice lefty from the right side. He was doing a little Scott Mitchell action.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6189.344

New Orleans is the best casino in America. It's right in the middle of everything. There's no better casino.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6200.048

This podcast was produced by Craig Horbeck, who's right there. Thanks to Jack and Gahow as well. Thanks, Kyle Brandt. Anything you want to plug?

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6218.196

When are you going to watch Jim Cotta, you think?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

6229.659

All right. There's a couple others, too, that are on the list, too. All right. Great to see you, as always. Thanks, Greg. Thanks, Kyle. And don't forget, Every Watchable is now available on video on Spotify. Check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. Thank you, guys.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

665.824

You're right. Probably the best of any sketch turned in. I mean, we talked about Blues Brothers last week, which I know, big Chicago movie. I'm sure you've seen it a few times in your life. Same thing where it's like, how are they going to turn this premise into this whole bigger world.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

680.727

The only hint that they could do this with the movie in Wayne's world was when they had the, they had that great sketch with Aerosmith and Tom Hanks as like the groupie siblings, siblings. But those Aerosmith guys came into, came into Wayne's world in the basement for a little bit. And it was like, all right, this is weird. It's also kind of cool that Aerosmith is in Wayne's basement.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

705.42

And it kind of, to me, opened the door for possibilities.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

739.705

Well, Myers kicks off this whole era of like this absurdist meta referencing little stuff that had happened in the past leading to Austin Powers and all those movies. And this is like a 12-year run of just goofiness. You know, it's all the Jim Carrey movies. It wasn't really until that 03, 04 range with old school and the Apatow movies that we moved into some new version of movie comedy.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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But I think Myers really set the tone here for about a decade. Just be as goofy as possible.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

809.6

One of the other things from the early nineties, and I think the SNL would always, I've talked about it before, but SNL was, these were all kids raised on pop culture, right? We didn't have the internet. We didn't have all these different things. So we all kind of got the same jokes because we're all watching the same shows and the same movies.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

825.833

And Myers was the best at that, I think of anyone on the show. And even like you see in this movie, like he's ripping off a Laverne and Shirley parody. Yes. Where they see the sign and he's like, you know what? We're doing a shot by shot Laverne and Shirley parody. And it's like, I'm like 100% the audience for that. I'm like, are they doing this? Oh, we're doing it.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

83.939

We'll find out how they crammed 300 celebrities and executives and all that stuff in that room. You'll know all that, but we wanted to celebrate SNL one more time. We did Blues Brothers last week. It's Wayne's World this week. It was a special request from Kyle Brandt. Play the trailer.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

844.69

And I just think now I don't know what that is in 2025. I think it would be so hard to find common ground with everybody watching anything that they would get like, oh shit, I bet he's about to do the Laverne and Shirley shot for shot. And then they do it.

The Rewatchables

‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

885.396

Do you know the two Darrens from Bewitched?

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

893.447

I got all of it. I've said this before, but the SNL sketch that was one of the most dated sketches that was also a Hall of Fame sketch was when Susan Day from the Partridge family was on. And they did a Brady Bunch versus Partridge Family kind of musical showdown. And Chris Farley was Ruben. And they were able to use the whole cast. And it was just like, this is it, man. You guys have nailed it.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

915.867

This is my entire childhood in one sketch. And Wayne, a lot of the stuff that he did, Myers on the show as Wayne and Sprockets. And he was always kind of dipping back into the 70s and 80s. And then eventually with Austin Powers, just became like 60s. James Bond movies crossed with English spy movies as like this whole thing. Anyway, Myers. So he's a real star at this point. I don't know if he's...

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

943.53

the biggest star in the show, but he was probably the one doing the most interesting stuff. I think Hartman was the best guy in the show. Carvey was probably the biggest star and Myers was like, you just kind of never knew what was next for him.

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‘Wayne’s World’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

955.161

What he would, he would always be kind of zagging doing like coffee talk all of a sudden and always like taking pretty big character swings, which you don't see in the show anymore.

The Rewatchables

‘Can’t Hardly Wait’ With Bill Simmons and Joanna Robinson

0.229

Welcome to the brand new Zach Lowe Show. That's right. I'm back to have the same in-depth NBA conversations you're used to. We're going to talk about the games, the X's and O's, the drama, the playoffs are coming up. And now you get to see every episode in full on video on Spotify and on my own YouTube channel.

The Rewatchables

‘Can’t Hardly Wait’ With Bill Simmons and Joanna Robinson

20.62

Episodes drop every Monday and Thursday with a collection of guests you're going to love. So make sure you follow and subscribe to the brand new Zach Lowe Show on Spotify or wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts. Let's go!

The Rewatchables

‘Best in Show’ With Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson

110.375

That's my favorite, the miniature schnauzer. You'd think they'd want to breed them bigger, wouldn't you, like grapefruits or watermelons?

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‘Best in Show’ With Bill Simmons, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson

123.919

He went after her like she's made out of ham.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1003.636

And people are like, what's going on? These guys are on the cast. That led to the summer and everything after. Then they were on in November again. They did, for Carrie Fisher's show, they sang Soul Man. So when you look back at Belushi's

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1019.468

78 where he's on the biggest show he's opening for steve martin who's the hottest stand-up comedian animal house comes out in late july becomes a phenomenon that's going on on uh magazines and stuff then they come back for season four and they're like they've transcended the show it's like it happened to eddie murphy too but then in uh in december they put out the album from the live thing and that sells out and goes platinum

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1044.901

And it all happens in, like, nine months. And I don't think, you know, he couldn't handle it.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1130.29

Yeah. As a kid, though, I loved when Belushi would do the somersaults. Mm-hmm.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I loved Ackroyd with the briefcase where they'd unlock it. I liked how he danced. It's just all the stuff they were doing.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1153.257

That was one of the cool lessons from this whole thing. Like these guys did it and they actually did it. And part of it was because Belushi was so charismatic, but they went and got some of the best backup people in America. They took it super seriously. They really tried to figure out their performances. It wasn't some vanity thing.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1181.741

So by the end of 78, Belushi's the most important finding person. He probably took the title from Steve Martin. It's probably them in the finals at that point. The other interesting part with Belushi and Aykroyd together is there's just not a lot of great tandems. Because I feel like if Belushi stays alive, these guys probably make 15 movies together.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1202.268

Like Damon and Affleck, we saw there's a trailer for another movie with them. That looks great. Rip. I can't wait. But there's not a lot of tandems. You think like Laurel and Hardy a million years ago, Martin and Lewis.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

121.834

All right, so when this runs, this will be SNL 50 week. This was the first SNL movie, the Blues Brothers, a movie that we've been saving for the right time. I feel like this is the right time. I love this movie. I don't know how it stands for people under 25. I know how I feel.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1217.511

But not like the last 50 years. Like Farley and Spade made two movies and weren't some SNL sketches. There have been a couple of examples. Martin and Martin Short have done a bunch of stuff.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1238.522

Well, you said that earlier about this is like something that belongs to the 70s in some ways. Those were a lot of the shows that I watched as a kid. Like I love Flip Wilson. That was one of my favorite shows. Donny and Marie had a show. Like Captain and Tennille had a show. All variety shows. The Osmonds. Crocket and Tubbs. Mary Tyler Moore had a variety show.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1259.511

These shows where you do sketches, but then you would also sing. Yep. So they kind of made sense in that context. But this was, you know, I don't know how many SNL movies we've had since. I think it's eight since this. And probably pieces of other ones or characters.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1279.802

So it opened the door for at least like, oh, they're making a Wayne's World movie. All right, I'll try it. Do you think this is far and away the best Saturday Night Live movie?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1303.285

Which one would you rather order as a 4K Blu-ray?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1313.315

I watched this Blues Brothers movie on 4K Blu-ray.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1362.434

Farrell and Riley. Yeah. I guess have been a couple, but nobody thinks of them as a tandem necessarily. They kind of fell out, right? Yeah. Yeah. So the Chicago movie Renaissance is another piece of the CR. One of your favorite topics. Sure. 79 and 80, we have My Bodyguard, Blues Brothers, The Hunter, Steve McQueen. Yeah. Solid movie. And Somewhere in Time with Chris Reeve.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1385.907

And then it was because they had a new mayor, Mayor Daley. And she's like, let's grab some of that Hollywood. So eventually that leads to 1981, Continental Divide. Big chunks of Escape from New York. Filmed there. And a movie called Thief by the one and only Michael Mann. And then we're off. Risky Business, Sixteen Candles, Streets of Fire, Code of Silence, Class. We're just off.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

139.322

It's an OG. I saw it in Chicago in 1980. Get the fuck out of here. And we walked out, and Daily Plaza was there, and my head almost exploded. That is a true story. Are you serious? I was on a baseball park trip with my dad, and we saw Blues Brothers. And we were in that theater, and we came out, and I was just like, I was like in the Matrix.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

1409.168

But Booze Brothers is one of the first ones. And I think probably the biggest Chicago love letter, I would guess. They even figured out a way to put Wrigley Field in there out of nowhere.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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We also have musical numbers from James Brown, Cab Calloway, Ruth Franklin, Ray Charles, John Lee Hooker. We have cameos or extended parts from Carrie Fisher, John Candy, Henry Gibson, Twiggy, Steve Spielberg, Joe Walsh, and Frank Oz. There's a Jerry Orbach cameo in the beginning.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Famously troubled production as Sierra alluded to. Ackroyd, six months to write the script and it was 324 pages and incoherent. And then they had to whittle it down.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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With just tangents and his thoughts about Catholicism and weird shit in there.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Women loved him, by the way. Which is really weird. Stickman? When you watch... Landed Donna Dixon, which was, like, no small feat in the early 80s.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What happened, all of a sudden, he was Tommy Boy, like, the big, portly, like, Carson. Yeah, it's... I mean, he was so young when he was on SNL. I think he was like 22 or 23. And then just does the Belushi. I think he was a little more Randy in the late 70s, early 80s. And maybe Belushi gets too much credit for it. And Akron, I think they were definitely running mates from time to time.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But I think everybody was like that back then.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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He created the prototype for Hartman, Hader, all those dudes. He was the first one. There's only a few people that have been on the show where everybody else was like, the guy was like a fucking genius. It was clear he was going to outgrow the show and do something else and do more stuff. Anyway, he ended a 324-page script. And there was no budget. And it was a mess from the beginning.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Car crashes. The downtown scene at the end cost $3.5 million. Ackroyd worked cocaine into the budget because they had so many night shoots.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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How old were you? 1980, so I was 10. Wow. Whoa.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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People were cool with that because it was 1979.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Just a heads up. Blush's party like the maniac. I was going to do cocaine before we did categories.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, I mean, you can feel the cocaine oozing off the Blu-ray when you put it in. You're like, oh, yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Belushi could have talked me into it. There was so much drugs and partying that they opened a bar on the set called the Blues Club for themselves, crew, and friends.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, it ended up being a $27.5 million budget, which was like a kajillion dollars in 1979. That's a lot, yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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There's a lot of Lou Wasserman being completely pissed off about how much and calling and killing guys day after day about how the budget spiraled. They just kind of lost the control of this.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, so the Belushi thing for me, he was like my first favorite, but it started, they used to rerun the SNLs in primetime. So I think it was season four, and that's when I started seeing it because I wasn't allowed to stay up late. And then I think somewhere around there, I started watching a little bit, but Belushi was the one. I mean, especially if you were a kid.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, it made $115.2 million. It was 10th overall in 1980. It's still to this day the sixth biggest musical of all time.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It was released on the same day as The Empire Strikes Back. What a movie theater day that was. Incredible. That has to be one of the top. I remember we did that once about the best day in a movie theater. That's got to be up there. They launched a Blues Brothers concert tour the same day.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I think that movie's been canceled. It has been canceled. LA Times, Charles Champlin. Great critic. Called it a $30 million wreck, minus the laughs. Mixed reviews on the Blues Brothers. Pretty savage, because people knew it cost a lot of money, and they launched a tour the same day, and I think people were doing the whole ego's gone awry kind of thing. Didn't matter. Yeah, and then the movie did.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The champs of it were Ebert and Siskel. Siskel loved it. Ebert gave it three stars. He said the Blues Brothers cost untold millions of dollars, kept throwing the girl completely out of control, but director John Landis has somehow pulled it all together. Belushi and Akra had come over as hard-boiled city guys, total cynics with a worldview of sublime simplicity. There's even room.

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There's even room in the midst of the carnage and mayhem for a surprising amount of grace, humor, and whimsy. Raj. He must have loved Belushi. Yeah. You know Belushi probably turned up the charm of them at some point. So yeah, we forgot to mention that, or I forgot to mention the Landis directed Animal House and they got him for Blues Brothers and they were pretty tight and

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Landis as a director, any movie nerd notes?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, it's almost like they're making a comic book or something.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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level stuff you know like this is I've never seen this before so I think it's pushing it like you're saying like the pushing of the envelope is part of what makes him good at what he was going for one of the deleted scenes they leave the gas station after Twiggy drives away and Belushi's smoking a cigarette and he throws the cigarette and it blows up the gas station and I was like why'd they cut that like they left

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Didn't know about it. I didn't really know about it until season three, season four. And then anecdotally, just people like my parents' friends doing the wild and crazy guys and stuff like that. But you almost didn't know what it was and it was on so late. It was like, someday I'll stay up late and watch SNL. I think season four was probably when I snuck up a couple times.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What's the exact perfect age to see this movie? I thought about this long and hard. I think it's like late teens. It's like 18, 19. Yeah. I would say.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, the correct answer might be 10 because I really love this movie. I'm on this tech story with a couple of my best friends from high school and the guy they went to college. I was just like, hey, we're doing Blues Brothers. They're just like, orange whip, orange whip, three orange whips. All of a sudden, they're just texting lines. New Oldsmobiles are out. It's just one of those movies.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I think Stripes was like that. Caddyshack. There's just a couple from the early 80s that they just lived on for four and a half decades now.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But them rerunning the primetime stuff, Uh, it was huge, but this was, I mean, I was looking at some of the ratings numbers for this show and it's just massive. Like season four, 13.1 rating, 39 share, and it was getting 25 million people an episode.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I don't know if like if you're 30 years old right now watching this, I don't think you can correctly capture the impact of like James Brown and Aretha and Ray Charles at that point of their career. Yeah. Where it just felt like a huge deal that they had all those people. They were still functional. I didn't know who John Maynard Hooker was.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But many of them were in an ebb. You know, they were like at a lower... But it was just amazing that they were in the movie. Because it was like this whole genre of music that was like, holy shit, this isn't just like an SNL sketch.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Most rewatchable scene. I mean, the opening when Jake gets out of jail and they hug and the way they shoot it with the two things and all of a sudden we're listening to Mule to Ride. Day I get out of prison, my own brother picks me up in a police car. We're just off. And then we do the bridge jump. Like, we're just coming out of the gate. Really good opening. Reverend James Brown. Cleophas.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Epic James Brown, epic Belushi. Jesus tap dancing Christ.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Think stunt double for some of the somersaults?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The band. This is going to be a finalist for me. The first real car chase in the mall. The mall. Fucking kills me. Dixie Square Mall. Here went imports.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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belushi's like so zonked out it's like this place has everything yeah it's so good i also love any scene in a mall from like 19 like fast times had this too it's just so funny to see the malls back it's just not like that car chase needed to go up a level and they're like what if we just drove through a mall it's great that's what i had for the dan campbell skill for holy shit are they really going for this right now i think this is like at least an eight and a half yep um

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I think it's my favorite scene. When they just destroy the French restaurant. Yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I, which is like, there's no sporting event that gets that now except the Superbowl airing at 1130.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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One of the criticisms I'd have of this movie is you probably needed two more scenes just to unleash Belushi. They really like unleashed Belushi in this scene. And I wish they had just done it two more times.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Right, right. Donald Duck Dunn doesn't need like a five minute scene.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Your woman. Sell them to me. Who else is pulling that scene off? I mean, he's asking the guy at the next table if he can buy his eight-year-old daughter, and it's fucking hilarious.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Soul Food Cafe, that whole scene where we start, we just get some John Lee Hooker. Yeah. Boom, boom, boom, boom. What movie is that? What's the other movie that that's from that's like, is that Risky Business? Boom, boom, boom, is that it?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I mean, his song... That song's prominently involved in a movie we love. I think it's Risky Business.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And then we get Aretha. Dry white toast and four fried chickens.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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She sings You Better Think, and we get some of the best acting of all time from Mac Guitar Murphy. who just kind of has to move along. He's so pretty, confused. And you know they're filming takes for 10 hours, and he's just wearing an apron. There's a lot to discuss about the quality of acting from the backing band in this movie. It's tough. But Aretha's great.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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She had to lip sync, I guess. There's some stories about she had a little trouble with the lip sync. Maybe they could have let her belt it out.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The song's really good. I really enjoy it. Yeah. I mean, it's just so much fun to watch that. It's an American canon. Then we go right... To Ray Charles. Yes. We go from Aretha right to Ray Charles singing, and we're at Ray's Music Exchange. This is my favorite scene in the movie.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You think Baby Kane was like, what the fuck? Yeah. That's a good question.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Bob's Country Bunker. Got that too. Rawhide. Right in the stand by your man. It's really good.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Move him out. Would you live pod from Bob's Country Bunker in the Chicken Wire?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Minnie the Moocher. Yeah. Palace Hotel. Both Blues Brothers songs. Carrie Fisher in the Tunnel. The Iconic Line.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Boom. Let's hit it. And then the final car chase highlighted by the... The Nazis fall into their death for like two miles. Is that a pinto? The Bluesmobile collapsing, which I used as a joke in columns for like the next 20 years. And then all the guns pointed to them at the end. What do you got? Most rewatchable scene.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I have Shay Paul or the mall. The mall kills me. The mall's good. Um, The okay motherfucker award for the exact moment when the movie goes up a notch. Is that the same as the Dan Campbell scale? Maybe I got to pick one. I think they've won both of those.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Right. Yeah. One of a kind. The guy that didn't jump off the show initially because Chevy Chase did. But then when Chevy Chase leaves, then Belushi and Aykroyd kind of take over the show. Yeah. And then season three was their big year. And then they started dabbling around with the Blues Brothers and eventually led to them leaving. There's been great books written about SNL.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What's the most 1980 thing about this movie? Would you go with the 1970s police cars that are just getting destroyed left and right or expensive suit being $10?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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A production where they already had cocaine in the budget. Yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What's aged the best? Belushi and Ackroyd. Elwood's crappy apartment, if you've seen this movie enough times, you really got to study it when they're in there for... It is like... Eight by ten.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What's aged the best? Shitting on white supremacists? That's a great one.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Carrie Fisher's hair salon was called Curl Up and Die with a D-Y-E. It's so good.

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Her being in this is what's aged the best. We see a wide shot of Chicago and there's a movie theater and the three movies are Escape from Alcatraz, The Warriors, and Up in Smoke. Ooh, that's a sick lineup. Just sounds like a fucking unbelievable triple header.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Definitely not a triple header for a date. No. It's a, I'm not working today. I think I'll go see three movies in a row. The boys brought a six pack into the movie theater. Yeah. Ray-Bans, Blues Brothers and Risky Business, Supercharged, Chicago Movies, and Ray-Bans.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You mentioned Colleen Camp's Playboy magazine poster, which was also featured in Apocalypse Now, that they carefully put in Elwood's apartment, I think as a tribute to Apocalypse Now.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And especially like, this was the first test case. Chevy was the first one. And then these guys of like, when you outgrow the show and Hollywood comes calling, but then there's cocaine too, which became a big part of the legacy of this movie. They talk about it and everything you'd ever read about this movie was about how much cocaine was involved. They're so candid about it. Yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So that's a more important Linda Carter picture than the Philippine Shakey's photo? I guess so. One of the great photos of all time. Shakey's like the pizza place? She's wearing a Shakey's pizza shirt, but it says Philippine Shakey's. Oh my God. Yeah. Let's just say she doesn't not look awesome.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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What a legend. City of Chicago for what's aged the best. It just uses a lot of it. And I really appreciate it. What else do you have, CR?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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That's one of the big things for this movie, I think. The music has aged perfectly. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if this is a what's aged the best or what's aged the worst, but when Phil Hartman did the Sinatra group sketch, and Mike Myers is Steve Lawrence, and him and Edie Gourmet are just sucking up to Phil, and he's like, you tell him, chairman. Is it Jan Hooks who's Edie? Who played Jan Hooks?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Who played Sinead? No, she played Jan Hooks. Somebody else was playing Edie. Because he's like, cue ball!

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Oh my God. That's my number one favorite. He's the best. That was the chunks of guys like you in my stool. Great shot, Gordo. Most cinematic shot, Jake's footsteps when they're leaving prison, they go underneath for the shot up.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But I really like the very end when it scales back and there's 300 people pointing guns at them, that one shot. That's good too, yeah. It's really good. What do you got, anything else?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award best needle drop I don't know if the songs count when they're built in numbers so maybe John Lee Hooker I had Boom Boom just because it's not one of their songs and it's also just so sick the way they shoot it and like see him okay I agree the Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for best character name I mean Elwood Blues is pretty good Juliet Jake Blues Juliet Jake Blues I like Matt Guitar Murphy so I had Matt Guitar Murphy and Blue Lou Blue Lou Maroney yeah

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Macintyre, Marfago. All right, CR, flex category. What do you got?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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That's a good one. The Vincent Chase Award for Are We Sure This Character Was Actually Good at His Job. The Clarion Records head who just sees one song with his convicted felons. Here's a bag of $10,000 cash. And I'm also going to aid and abet your felonious escape. I know everyone's looking for you guys, but here's $10,000 cash.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No. No. Not really. It's more like 70s blues, I think is the gimmick.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, that is obviously your Butch's girlfriend award for the weak link of the film.

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How about this? Nobody was good at their job in this movie. Yeah, that's a good point. My weak link, though, is wanted fugitives trying to sell out a benefit concert that they're headlining. Just seems like a bad idea. Yeah. Let me raise awareness for this thing that the cops are immediately going to find out. It's a flaw in the movie.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, that was one of the big problems with season four for him, the last SNL season, was he started filming 1941 at the same time. He was flying back and forth and doing a ton of drugs, and his performance started to fade. But yeah, I remember seeing Neighbors in the theater. It was after Blues Brothers. And it was just so disappointing.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No Paul Schaefer in this movie. And there's a backstory to it. Where they have the Blues Brothers. They're about to film the movie. Lorne Michaels is doing this Guild Alive project with Gilda Radner, who's the other biggest star in the show. And Paul Schaefer is the one who's working on the concert album for it. Concert album's terrible. They're all upset about it.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So they decided instead of trying to do it again, they're going to do a live Broadway show and that will be the concert album. And they need Paul Schaefer for it. So Paul Schaefer tells Belushi, I'm out for the Blues Brothers movie. I can't do it. And Belushi flips out. It's like, fuck you, you're dead. Yeah, you're dead to me. SG style. I'll hit you with my car. I can totally identify.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I'm going to fishtail you into a lake. But Paul Schaefer would have been... He would have been like the... He put the band together. The Murph guy? He landed on his feet. Yeah. It's just so fun to have him in the movie.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It's sad that he's not in it, but it turned out fine.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I had, for what stage the worst, I wanted more SNL cameos. Like, I just feel like Bill Murray could have been in this. I feel like Steve Martin could have had like a minute. Yeah. I think if they're doing that, knowing everything we learned in the 90s and 2000s, they would have probably. Like Lorraine Newman could have been. Yeah, they just sort of worked in a couple people.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Imprisoned Pa Lance. That was his bitch. Blues Brothers 2000 I have as a What's Aged to Worst. We've all agreed not to talk about it anymore. Here's a great story.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It's a tough sit. It's bad. Yeah. So, the most powerful theater chain was Mann Theaters. Ted Mann was the guy that ran it. And Landis tells this whole story about, he basically said, I'm not booking this film. I'm going to play this in Compton. No white neighborhoods at all. Like this will not be in Brentwood. He didn't want black patrons going there to see the film.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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He didn't think white people would want to go see a film that had all these black musical stars in it. And the movie gets released and it has half as many theaters as it normally would have. And yet, still did really well. But, yeah, not great. That's a definition of a what's aged the worst.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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They switched roles and Ackroyd was the crazy one and Belushi was like the straight man. And then near the end, like his eyebrow goes up and he got... But it just... This was kind of the movie that became... This and Animal House were the two that became the Belushi movies. But that Animal House wasn't a Belushi movie. He was in it. It made him a star.

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But you have to think of the era this was when you think about who was on TV, who was in a movie. There were so few black stars. I mean, there was real racism back then. Yeah, of course. So, it makes sense that it was like, no, unless it's like a stir-crazy type of movie with...

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Pryor and Gene Wilder like I'm not putting it in Brentwood yeah you could get it if it wasn't John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd you know it's not it definitely hurt the box office um the Rufflo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting award I don't I have one candidate I don't feel great about it but did you have one

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But that's underacting. Yeah. They're not acting.

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Matt Guitar Murphy. Sean's choice. Flex category. What do you got?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award. I have a good one.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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There's some holes in Julia, Jake, and this lady who owned a beauty salon apparently were engaged for three years. And then he no-showed the wedding. I mean, it's hard to imagine Jake being engaged to anything or anyone.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Right? One of the many people he was engaged to.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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would you ever do MacGruber yeah it's on the list my hottest take cocaine continues to be underrated this is a great era in what specific ways but you don't know like okay go ahead Some of the stuff in the 70s and 80s is just so underrated as a creative slash cultural force that wreaks so much havoc and ruined lives and careers and killed people and all that stuff.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It led to some fucking crazy great shit like this movie that I just don't think is made if everyone wasn't on cocaine. Right. They're just like, yeah, let's have Carrie Fisher. Oh, do you know her? Yeah, I'll write in a part where it's Jake's crazy girlfriend and he's just shooting grenade launchers at him.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Up until 5 a.m. I would have been like fucking Taylor Sheridan, cranking out 9,000 words a day. No, but it led to movies and TV shows and choices. Yeah. That would just be inconceivable unless everybody around you was on cocaine. You should just get into it now. That would be funny.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Casting what ifs. Actually, let's take a break. Casting what ifs tough to find good ones. The only one they wanted Olivia Newton, John to be either Twiggy or I think the Twiggy part, but she was unavailable because she was working on Xanadu right after Greece. Yikes.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3782.333

Yeah. So I'm trying to think what the equivalent now of Twiggy is. It's like a Kardashian, not even like Kim. It's like having like Kylie Jenner.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It girl from like seven, eight years ago who wasn't even really totally an it girl anymore.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The studio wanted younger acts. They weren't happy with Aretha and Ray Charles and James Brown. And we're trying to get Rose Royce from Car Wash to get in there.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3826.38

Best that guy. Charles Napier doesn't count, I don't think, because he's Charles Napier. This would be his third or fourth victory of that guy. I think when you win three times, you're not allowed to win anymore. I was like retired. But he does have the same scream that he does when Lecter's coming at him. When the cars, when the giant Winnebago's about to go in the water.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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If you look in the driver's seat, he's like, ah!

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Henry Gibson to that guy or no? That's who I had.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I have an incredible that guy for this. Go for it. The young kid who tries to steal from Ray's guitar shop.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3878.624

He... he grew up eight years later, was the chauffeur in Die Hard. Oh. Deveree, whatever his name is. Yeah. No way. I recognized his face. I was like, I've seen that guy. And yeah, it's the Die Hard chauffeur. Oh my God, dude. That's a great one. What a fucking combo for that guy. I don't know if... It's a great TV. I don't know if a lot of great things have happened in his life.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Okay, that's not good. I think he's had some issues. There you go.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, she's also eligible for the Dion Waiters Award, along with James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Carrie Fisher, Steve Lawrence, John Candy, probably a bunch of other people we could mention. Who do you got, CR?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3949.499

I would go Aretha Franklin. Recasting couch director of City. Just Paul Schaefer. Just CGI him in here as the band leader. Let's figure out how to do this.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

399.724

I mean, that's, as a little kid, that's certainly how I felt. But I think Hollywood felt that way too. He was such a phenomenon. I mean, well, there's so much to talk about, but he did the Triple Crown in 78. He had the number one movie, he had the number one album, and he was on the number one most important show at the same time, which is like never, I don't think anyone's done that again.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

3990.359

Half-assed internet research. They used 13 different Bluesmobiles cars. They were all bought at an auction. And then 60 other police cars cost $400 each. They had 40 stunt drivers. They had over 500 extras for the next to last $3.5 million in Daly Center. The final chase scene, they dropped a Ford Pinto. from a helicopter at an altitude of 1200 feet. It's amazing.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And the FAA had to give them a special certificate to be able to do it. Again, back to my cocaine theory. This just doesn't happen in any other decade.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4041.997

Well, think about it. There's no texting, emails, cell phones, so you could just lose communication with somebody for 18 hours.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So I read the... bob woodward wired all the blues brothers parts very controversial book yeah the snl people were all like really upset about it because they were working on the snl book by hill and weingrad about the first 10 years and they were like 80 through it and then wired came out and was just like a belushi cocaine hatchet job book

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4103.275

although it's not as bad as I think it was represented but it definitely dwells on the drug stuff but there's a lot of Blues Brothers stuff in that and that the Vanity Fair thing was basically a lot of that rehashing wired but but that's a fun reread Because it's just like, we're on the set, and then Belushi disappeared. And then we had to go find him, and he was doing this.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4123.56

Turns out he was at this guy's house, like two miles away. It's like you almost could have made a movie about Belushi making this movie. It could have been the movie. Don't give anybody any ideas. Yeah, seriously. They destroyed 103 cars, which was a record. Matrix reloaded in 2003. Wrecked 300 cars. Broke it.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4143.311

There's a whole thing about how Belushi got hurt on a skateboard near the end and Lou Wasserman had to get the city's top orthopedic surgeon. Maybe this would be in the movie.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4158.439

The guy had just worked on Mitch Kupchak or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4170.27

It would be a movie that just made people mad, whatever it was. So they filmed the big musical numbers was at the Hollywood Palladium, but they made it seem like it was Chicago.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I don't think so people have done two of them three like Eddie Murphy had two with the idol and the album and the movie coming out later this year but he between the show and then Animal House he hit some level of stardom that just I don't think is you can't compare it to anything now because it can never happen

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4193.298

The only thing I don't like is that they weren't into it the beginning of the first song. They kind of no-sold it.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

42.83

The Rewatchable is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can watch it on Ringer Movies, where you can find clips and entire episodes from this podcast and the big picture with Sean Fennessey. That's right.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You weren't excited at all. Dan Aykroyd said, many theaters in the American South refused to show the film because there are too many blacks in it and that it would have done better if not for the racism in the American South. Okay. And then Elwood, his data readout, I freeze-framed it. 116 parking violations and 56 moving violations. And then it said arrest driver and pound vehicle.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4230.112

56 moving violations is a lot. Yeah. I don't even think I had that in college. How many moving violations were you ever carrying at once? I mean, I almost lost my license. Speeding? I had, it was like a point system. Yeah. And I had to go and it was, I was going to be at 10 points. So I had to go fight the ticket and I had to drive to like freaking middle Connecticut somewhere.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Did you represent yourself in court? Yeah. I was just going to, I was going to say they had like a faulty radar thing. I'm out of order. You're out of order. The cop didn't show up. Cop had like something and didn't show up. And I would have lost my license for my whole junior year. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4289.556

3.29 from Vegas to Burbank. Three hours and 29 seconds. We're speed brothers. Three hours, 29 minutes. Vegas to Burbank. Dropping off Corolla at his house. Yeah, but you wear a seatbelt. I do wear a seatbelt.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4303.243

Or he was. Listen, there's two ways to drive. Either you're a coward or you're the king of the jungle.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4312.188

Apex Mountain. But Lucy's an interesting one. I think it's probably 78, Animal House, SNL when he's still on there. The combo of that would be my official opinion.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4342.063

ooh but Belushi was like a man of the people though yeah I'm sure like everybody who was in Chicago Michael Jordan's steakhouse was available open to the public yeah he was sitting in the back I'm sure Belushi from 75 to 81 in Chicago probably everyone who lived there probably has one Belushi story but it'd be my guess like you said he never carried a wallet he ate for free he drank for free every day it's like Dave Jacoby um

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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especially when we had so few TV channels and programs, and fame was just completely different back then. But I think the thing that you feel in this movie with him was he was just so talented. Like, he's actually a really good musical performer, like, for what he is. When you feel like he's an actor, think of all the actors we've had moonlighting as...

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Ackroyd? I'm gonna say no. I think Ghostbusters. Yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So CR, when Red Art... Yeah, he gets his suit back, though. He gets his suit back. The suit was $957 and I wore the shit in.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So when we read our heist movie, we have a scene where they get their stuff back.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4412.196

One soiled condom. One used prophylactically. One same game parlay.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4426.775

I would say Ferris. That's got to be the greatest scene ever filmed in Chicago. I love Thief. Well, but that's like a different. I know. That's not the answer.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4448.565

As you know, I don't remember anything after the vaccine. No, I love Thief. The Blues. I'm going to say no. Probably not. Bushy Sideburns.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4465.94

Okay. Carrie Fisher? This comes out same day as Empire Strikes Back? Yeah, I guess this is. Pretty good day for her.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4489.349

Okay. Is that the last time you saw it? Probably. I remember being pleased. You remember being pleased? I thought Jedi was my favorite of the three. The Ewok guy.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4500.196

Jedi, the favorite of the three? Yeah. Good Lord. Well, I remember I really liked Han Solo and Chewbacca. And I felt like they really got to cook in the third one. The original Blues Brothers.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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JCPenney's? Has it ever gotten better than those guys going through the window at JCPenney's?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4524.474

Yeah, probably. These are stores that were, it was right around their apex anyway. Yeah. The 80s, late 70s, early 80s. But to have it called out by Jake and Elwood.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4538.458

Illinois Nazis, I think definitely. The theme song from Rawhide, I'm going to say no.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Orange whips. What is an orange whip, CR? I don't know.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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singers and this guy's like commanding you know they toured with steve martin in 78 after i think season three and steve martin was at the height of his fame he's doing like nine nights in la yeah and the blues brothers are opening up for them like can you imagine having like a ticket for that that universal amphitheater show that the first one that they did with steve martin became that album that you're talking about and sold almost four million copies in 1978 of just them doing

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It's a tough one. Because it has to be like a positive Apex Mountain. It can't be like this person died doing cocaine.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4589.126

It might be like a Michael Ray Richardson triple-double in like 1979. Sure. Like a 29, 17, 14. The new Oldsmobile is definitely Apex Mountain. Absolutely. It came out early. James Brown? No. Horrible apartments? Probably there's been worse. Has there been a worse apartment than Elwood's apartment that was next to the El?

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4610.439

My least favorite apartment ever in a movie is the 7-1 where the person was being starved to death. That's my number one. Sloth? That's the one you don't want to rent right after.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4620.983

It is sloth. Yeah, that's why. Tough beat for the next tenant. Dicks! You know, we did Silence as... Basically a comedy? Should we do seven as a comedy? Seven? Ready to just have just fun with that? I'm so in. What's in the box? The re-seven? A laugh riot?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Detectives! Blues Brothers as a band. I'm going to say yes.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Or on SNL. What was that one called? Briefcase Full of Blues? Yeah, it sold four million albums, which is pretty nuts. It's a lot of albums. Vengeful Ex-Girlfriends, no. John Landis, no. What is Vengeful Ex-Girlfriends? I had checking out of prison.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I think so. It's a tricky one. That's post-Twilight Zone, isn't it? Oh, yeah. No, it's probably Animal House.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4689.651

Cruz or Hanks? Why not both? No, you can't. That was my answer, too. Cruz and Hanks. No, don't be cowards. Then Hanks is Elwood. Hanks is Elwood is the answer. Okay. I won't argue. Scorsese or Spielberg? Clearly Spielberg.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4714.052

Yeah, how much for the little girl? Spielberg versus Scorsese. Although Scorsese's version of this, Scorsese gets to make the making of the movie. The cocaine is in the movie if he makes it. He makes blues. Yeah. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4730.918

Jennifer Brouillette. Aniston, Coolidge, Connelly, Garner, Lawrence, or Lopez for the Carrie Fisher part. I had Lawrence.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4751.11

Oh, Jennifer Coolidge as the Penguin's good. Coolidge wins that one.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The Ed Norton reversed dunk award. Did this movie need a random sports scene?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

481.767

the blues brothers review for an hour and then akroyd was kind of a freak too because he was smart enough like he loved belushi defended him stuck up for him um but was also really talented in his own right was the perfect straight man for him like didn't really care if he got the credit was all about kind of platforming the two of them together but also pushing john and

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4819.243

Where is Walter Payton? Well, it's summer, right? Those are both noble answers, guys. But you're both wrong. Okay. It's a pick-up-hoops basketball scene where he goes to find one of the band members because they're playing in a game. Okay. And who's in it? There's cameos from Mark Aguirre and Magic Johnson in the game.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4844.019

Okay. And that's how we get it. Pickin' its. I have a million, so I'll let you guys go.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4874.485

Yeah, I have some... You took a cheeseburger out of a bun.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4920.128

That was my biggest one. What? It's a church-owned orphanage that has to pay a property tax bill. Yeah. I'm going to guess it's tax-exempt, the orphanage.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4936.038

How did nobody get run over in the mall as a picket net? Yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

4953.835

I'm saying in real life, if you're making this movie, somebody gets hit. How did Carrie Fisher's character get a rocket launcher? Could you just buy one of those in 79? I ran Contra. Let's go. Yeah, get Gaddafi.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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This is my wife who watched the middle half of the movie with me and then went to go watch Below Deck. The Soul Food Cafe, she felt like had 40 health violations. Yeah. It was disgusting.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. I mean, the biggest nitpick in this whole movie, what happened to the good old boys? Why were they so late? They had a gig. They just showed up at the end. Everybody at the bar is gone. They're like, we're the good old boys. We're here. It's like, yeah, you guys are four hours late.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5011.923

How did the band drink $200 worth of beer at Bob's Country Bunker? It's a lot. In 1980, beers were like 50 cents.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5027.369

Is Twiggy really just like, I'm going to wait at this motel for that weird guy who smells that... That I gave $94 to? Elwood, he had a magnetism, you know? He had game. There's a nighttime daylight thing that's a little dubious in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5049.677

Concert started like eight, maybe let's say 930. And they're on chase and they're in Chicago. They weren't that far away.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5057.999

But now it's the morning and people are at work at nine o'clock. So there's 11 hours unaccounted for. Again, cocaine. Yeah. Continuity errors.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5069.668

Yeah. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable. Untouchable.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5080.692

Or there wasn't. Okay. You could apply Fletch 2 Rocky 5 rules and just live your life like it never happened. That's good. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilford Brimley in... the firm.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5121.714

Let's sing the Blues. I had a Romo? During basically any car chase.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5152.442

Mike, she's got to move on. She's just got to. I know it was three years that left her at the altar, but come on. Just one Oscar, who gets it? The soundtrack? Ackroyd? I'd say Belushi. Belushi? Best actor?

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5176.87

Was best movie that only makes sense if you know that cocaine was involved an Oscar category? They should add that.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5189.002

So the 81 Oscars, De Niro wins for Raging Bull, Duvall, Great Santini, John Hurt, The Alpha Man, Peter O'Toole, The Stuntman, maybe Belushi bumps Jack Lemmon in Tribute? Ooh, I've not seen that.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I know. I had that. That was one of the first things I wrote down. A movie that shouldn't have ever worked. Probably didn't totally work and yet became one of the great pop culture documents of this entire era. The people you're getting, you're getting Belushi and Akira at their peak.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5209.783

Probably unanswerable questions. The owner from Bob's Country Bunker just is now in a jihad trying to find Jake and Elwood. He just closed down his business. What happened? For 200 bucks. Was anyone working there? I just think he hates being made a fool of. That's it? He's just going to follow this guy all around?

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5230.828

Why was Bob's Country Bunker so close to Chicago and Illinois when it seems like it's in Arkansas?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5249.462

I have one more. Did they ever think of just having characters do cocaine in these movies when the movie is so clearly fueled by cocaine? It's funny.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5297.331

Total Recall was $10 the other day. I was like, all right, I'll take that down.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5305.213

That's what, if I was doing cocaine, that's the kind of stuff I'd do.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5322.621

They had Eternal Sunshine was on and I almost bought it even though I don't really like the movie. You don't like that. See, this is what happens.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5338.231

What piece of memorabilia would you want? Wait, I have a question. Oh, go.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You're getting James Brown and Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin and then all these randos like John Candy and Carrie Fisher. It's like an amazing document.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Good question. I talk about this with my wife a lot when we watch like 1883 and 1923. We just watched American Primeval.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And I was just thinking of like the odors as somebody who, you know, has bad eyesight. So I have a super nose. Oh, yeah. Like Spider-Man. My wife said... The odors are just so bad all the time that eventually your brain kind of phases it out. It's like if you hear a loud noise all the time, you don't hear the noise the same way. Yeah. And that's what it is. You become overpowered.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Your brain is able to shut off that scent.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The only way to compare anything to it now is the smell of a hockey locker room. That's it. That's how... If you want to know what the 1880s were like... It's pretty rough. Just going after a Triple OT game in a hockey locker room.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But way back when, they kind of liked malodorousness. A musk.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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There was that famous story about Napoleon telling his girlfriend or his wife, like, I'll be home in three weeks. Don't wash. Yeah.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5503.3

He's one of those, I want to be treated as a real actor people. So all bets are off with that. But it's possible, like that America's Guest thing you mentioned earlier, it's possible that they're doing cocaine one night and they're just like, I wrote this script called America's Guest, and all of a sudden they're making it. Because I really think that's what the early 80s were like.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I just think like... Somebody had an idea. They had a typewriter. They're just typing it out for eight days at the Chateau Marma, and then they're making a movie.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, and also he had been on the show longer and I think by the 90s people were more scared of him.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Right. So there was like the famous story of when Conan did the Tonight Show when he took it over and he didn't kind of bring Lorne into it and then Lorne couldn't protect him. Lorne's like a fucking mafia boss.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So then Leno was able to do the shit he did that if Lorne had been involved in the show they're never fucking with Lorne.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5592.004

So I don't think he had that kind of power in 1980. Right. You read all the stuff you read from the late seventies is just him realizing like, Oh God, like you're just, once these people hit a certain point, they're just going to leave or I'm going to lose them. Loyalty doesn't matter. The whole thing. Yeah. Um, what piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So I researched this and apparently Belushi lost like 500 Ray-Bans during the filming. So there's just no way to even know. Yeah, yeah. There's no original. I think the Ackroyd, the briefcase that Elwood had, I think seems reasonable. The car, the broken down car after the fact. Yeah. I think could be cool. But I think the answer is probably the poster. The Colleen Camp poster just because of the

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5659.938

a lot of history there yeah like you basically would try to get that one for you for sure absolutely yeah Captain Willard cranking it to Colin Kane or the harmonica would be another good one like the harmonica they use in the big scene Coach Finstock the word best life lesson Sometimes you need a mission from God. Yeah. Mission from God trumps everything else.

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‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Don't leave your girlfriend at the altar.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5700.498

Yeah. Guns of the M.O. Magazine. Best double feature choice. Animal House? I got a weird one. Wayne's World?

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5744.554

The Zawadney Award for what happened the next day, adding this in. How many years were Jake and Elwood in prison? What do we think?

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5760.424

A lot of property destroyed. A lot of cop cars destroyed. A mall's destroyed. Multi-time offenders. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5793.82

Well, we also, we talked about Belushi movies he didn't make. He was supposed to be in Ghostbusters, which was the fork in the road with that movie. That was why.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5802.834

Ackroyd was writing that for the two of them. Yeah. So he was going to be like Venkman? Yeah, he was going to be the Bill Murray character, I think.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5814.404

We were supposed to do it last year and I don't know what happened because it was the 40th anniversary last year.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5823.573

Well, it's another movie that got really helped by the widescreen. Because it had a really strange cable TV run because of the way it was shot. It was like a lot of this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great movie. Who won the movie? We never do two people for this, but I don't think it has to be Blush and Akron.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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All right, that's it for the pod. Thanks to Jack Sanders. We did not have producer Craig this week because as we're taping this, he is at the Super Bowl. Do we know if he has seen this?

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5869.538

Got some great emails. I'm not sure when we're doing the next mailbag, but got some really good ones at the rewatchables33 at gmail.com. You can also watch the Ringer Movies YouTube channel where we put up, Oscars are coming. Soon, less than a month. Yeah, tell me what to bet soon.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Fun one or not fun at all? It's one or the other.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5905.961

I'll never top what was the movie in Gloucester two years ago. We hit that 14-1.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5914.485

Yeah, but there's no Coda this year where you'd be like, oh, that one's going to win.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5930.978

Man, that's hard for me to believe that would win the best Oscar.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

5948.32

Oh, that's right. So you can just be like third, fourth. God, imagine if sports worked that way. That'd be so stupid. CR, thank you. Fantasy, thank you. See you next week.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

614.522

And it bridges the two decades. It's made in 79 and released in 80. Yeah. I don't like musicals. Okay. This is my favorite musical. by far. I don't even know what's second. What's your favorite musical?

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

669.178

Going back to the Belushi thing, because you're asking, like, what was it like? How was he perceived? Because you think of all the lineage of the guys, especially Farley. Farley became like the son of Belushi and just talked about him constantly and was from Chicago. And, you know, it was almost in some ways seemed like he just wanted to repeat Belushi's fast life and quick death.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The only thing I can compare it to is like athletes. When somebody comes in, like Dr. J comes in, and it's just like, whoa, you can do that? I just don't feel like Belushi, he was like a complete original. And even in the first SNL, he's the first person you see. He's doing the one where he's like, I'd like to feed you fingertips to the Wolverines.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But I remember the skit that I saw when I was like, who is this guy? It was when he played the Incredible Hulk in the Superman sketch. Yeah. And he blew out the bathroom. And it was one of the first SNL sketches I'd ever seen. I was like, what's going on? What world is this? Can I just go into this world? But that was it. He just had it. Some people just have it.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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They're saying it's like regarding Henry crossed with a doctor show. That sounds really, really good. That's good. Looks great. Well, this movie is a classic and we'll explain why we're doing it in a second. The Blues Brothers is next.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And they said he was like the all-time, all-time king of the city in Chicago. Like just kind of just moved around. Probably never had a wallet. Could like hail a cop car to take him home from the bar. People just putting cocaine in his pocket. Yeah. I think what... When you think of how short Belushi's career actually was, like you mentioned, he really didn't make that many movies.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

796.62

And not that many good movies. He was only on SNL for 80 episodes. But I think part of the legend and the stuff that I used to love when I was in the 80s after he died, it was like one of the first really sad deaths for me. It's like, oh man, I fucking love, but he's dead. But a lot of the legend was all these stories.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And just these larger than life and people trying to save him and people trying to help him. And, you know, he was just like this comet that wasn't going to last. It was kind of part of the point of him.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. You know? He did some really good stuff on SNL, but the best one, one of the most famous sketches they ever had was that Star Trek one. When they cancel Star Trek and it's Kirk. And it's like a nine-minute sketch.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But he could basically do anything. One thing that I always thought with him after the fact was all the movies he didn't make You know, like, because About Last Night came out in 86, which is a movie CR and I love. And Jim Belushi played the part that was supposed to be the Belushi part. There's this whole other era where he's just, like, randomly, he's the rom-com buddy in one movie.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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He's, like, a sports GM in another. Like, he just, I feel like his career could have been great. Obviously, that's part of the appeal.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

907.446

Like how Jamie Foxx almost did that turn when he was in Ali and all of a sudden started, I don't know what he was capable of.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

929.295

intense pathos in the characters while also being able to be Blutarski you know like he he could do both of those things so I guess I think he would do a lot of serious stuff he's just trained theater actor the documentary was excellent about him the best Belushi story was that one they're like in the Hamptons and they're up at 530 in the morning and they're like the party's way over and it's just like Ackroyd and somebody else and they hear this like

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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splashing and they look out and Belushi's just doing like cannonballs off the pool and Ackroyd looks at whoever was with them and he's like Albanian oak because Belushi was Albanian it's like pure Albanian oak so you can feel some of that even when you watch this like I'm sure there's scenes when he's just zonked out he's got sunglasses on the whole time But when he turns it on, he turns it on.

The Rewatchables

‘The Blues Brothers’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Sounds like a hard production. I can't wait to talk about that. So from an SNL standpoint, these guys pop on the show twice. They're on for the fame. First of all, they were a warm-up act. Then season three, March 78, April 22nd, Steve Martin's the host. This is still considered the best SNL of all time. And they're the musical guests. And they did Hey Bartender and I Don't Know.

The Rewatchables

‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre

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What's happening? It's Todd McShay, and I'm back with a new home and a new show at The Ringer and Spotify, The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year-round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts, and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts.

The Rewatchables

‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre

21.34

During the week, we'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the college football playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday slate.

The Rewatchables

‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre

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In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights with my immediate reaction to the full day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and get ready for the McShay Show on The Ringer, Spotify, and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He looks like a guy who got home at 6 in the morning, accidentally texted his wife instead of a stripper, and then drank from milk in the fridge. Boy, I'll tell you what. Without putting in a glass.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Oh, this is a good rewatchables category. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We had a smaller crowd and we were just... We're just in the experimenting phase. I don't know what to tell you, but we decided to do Den of Thieves again. And it's me, and it's Van Lathan, and it's Chris Ryan. And the reason we did it is because Den of Thieves 2 is coming out on Friday, and we were excited about it. So we were like, you know what? Screw it. Let's do Den of Thieves 1 again.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So when we did this in 2019, we talked about how this would have been the perfect Nick Cage role in the mid-late 2000s, and then Nick Cage aged out of it. And now it's six years. Who is the actor now that would be the big Nick O'Brien?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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No, you didn't. I don't know if we hit it. I really think it's a hard... You have to have some experience with the actor. They have to look a little physically different. They have to look like this might be happening to them as they're filming the movie. It's a hard needle to thread. Like Affleck, I think, could have done it in the mid-2000s, late 2000s.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Pablo Schreiber, half brother of the six foot five. I would say he's about as tall as you can get as an actor and be the lead in a movie when everyone else is so short in Hollywood. You can't really go higher than six five.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. He's huge. He looks like a tight end. We knew him as Sabaka on The Wire. Sabaka, yeah. Way, way, way back. And he was so good in season two. And then, you know, just was in a bunch of good stuff. Orange is the New Black. Yeah. I think this is my favorite performance of his.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Is Ray Merriman a fun hang? Probably not. It's like, come on over to the barbecue at Ray's house. It's like, not a lot of laughs at Ray's house. Ray is... Just people grimly eating.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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See, I think he's not going to have a lot of thoughts on the 12-team college playoff. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So that's what we did. You're about to listen to it. Let's play the trailer for old time's sake.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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$30 million budget made $85 million. And the key to this movie was it did well. And then it hit this whole cable world really in the last... kind of vestiges of when that would happen. Because now it's just like, it's all streamers. You're deciding, you know, what do I want to watch? Oh, I'll go to Netflix. Oh, I like that thumbnail. I'll click on that.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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This was still the era of you just went to a cable guide and looked around and saw it was on. And Den of Thieves was on, I would say for nine months straight on Showtime. There's like three Showtime channels. It was just on one of the three constantly. And that was where I think the secret sauce came in with the movie.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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No Roger Ebert for this. Every Rewatchables episode, we read a Roger Ebert review, but he was long gone because he died in 2014. But? I did ask chat GBT Roger Ebert. Oh, my God. Had to find out. It's a crime against God. They said he thought that chat GBT thought he would like it. Den of Thieves has been praised for its gritty action and tense heist sequences.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Some critics find it derivative of earlier crime films like Heat. Again, they can all fuck themselves. Did Roger Ebert write that? No. ChatGPT, Roger Ebert wrote this? Based on this, Ebert might have given it two and a half to three stars, acknowledging its entertainment value while pointing out its lack of originality or depth. ChatGPT, settle down. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think you would have gone three stars and I think you would have liked the action stuff.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But I think, yeah, he probably would have brought up other high stuff.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's the kind of movie that should be made every three, four years.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Most rewatchable scene. First one, donut store robbery. Yep. So we get eerie LA, which LA, I don't know if other cities operate in the same way, but there's this whole other world of LA at night, middle of the night, 2, 3 in the morning, where you just kind of don't know what the fuck's going on in a bunch of different parts, right? And it's just like empty highways.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's always so weird not to see cars everywhere. And there's just a couple stores open all over the place, and you just see this. Can I make a suggestion?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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You see a movie like this that gives you the card of there's a bank robber every 48 minutes. And then the next scene, it's the middle of the night with an empty, long, four-lane street. And there's a donut shop. And you're like, this isn't going to go well for the donut guys. And it's like, is that Bill Simmons walking by the donut shop talking about the Kings?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think he's talking about Drake Bay. So we get the classic, the guy who's reaching for the coffee who they have to shoot. Yep. We're out of time. We've got to engage. They know exactly how long.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Which guy would you be in the crew, Van? I mean... Would you be the guy monitoring when the... Like, we have 90 seconds, 60 seconds. Would you be the lead guy?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Right. Nice little swerve, though, because we don't know what's in the truck. He opens the door. I mean, we know after we watched the movie.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, it's interesting because there's shades of the opening in Heat, but it's also later parts of different heist movies too. It's tapping into a bunch. So next one, Big Nick shows up at the crime scene and Gerard Butler's just like, guys, in case you were wondering, I'm going for it. I'm going for it from the first minute you see me.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Is there a half a box of donuts on the floor with like splattered blood on the box? I'll have one. I'm hungry. Looks great.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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They give him the, hey, rough night? He's like, yes, next subject. And you just know he hasn't slept. There's no way he has been asleep that night. He eats the donut, man.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, your defense is, well, the box was closed. That's it.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I also love when these guys come in and they instantly know everything that can happen. where he's saying like, well, they knew the route. There's no getaway or bird support. And he's just like spelling it out. It's like, this guy has slept probably one hour in the last three days and has just ate a donut off the floor. But somehow he's like just reaching left and right, grabbing everything.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Then he gives us the, we're dealing with a different animal, boys. Like, oh, yeah, I guess we are. I wrote down, hungover Nick goes right from a donut to a cigarette while making fun of a cop in a suit for being a vegan. Elite stuff. It's great. It's some of Butler's finest work. All right, next scene. Donnie tells the story of how he met Merriman and the crew. Really fun driving scene.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's unbelievable. CR was like a kid on Christmas when he saw that on the sofa. Thank you to Lionsgate. Thank you to Den of Thieves, to Pantera, because that's why we rarely do this where we've already done the Rewatchables episode. And we say, fuck it, let's do it again. So we did this the first time. What was it, 2019 pre-COVID?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Good flashback stuff. One of the things I like about this movie is you always know where you are in the movie. Even if we're going backwards, you always have a sense of what's happening. So then they have Merriman setting up the bank of banks. versus Big Nick breaking down Merriman's crew, where they do a little back and forth. Which I think works really well.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And Merriman somehow has an incredible amount of information about the Bank of Banks. Well, we find out why later. Later on, we know. How does he know there were 53 attempts?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So is that bankrobberyreference.com? You just looked this up? Yeah, I don't know. 53, whatever. But then we find out Laveau and Merriman played football at Long Beach Poly. There's $30 million. Do you buy this thing that there's $30 million that could just disappear because they have to shred it so nobody's looking for it? I bought it, personally.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. I guess it's worth it, but... I don't know.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, Heat has, they're stealing What's-His-Face's bonds and selling it back to him.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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What was that guy's name? Van Zant. Van Zant. Van Zant, yeah. Fast Five had their breaking into the bank in Brazil. Man. That nobody's ever broken into.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's a private school charity banquet. He's just taking it down. Next scene, 50 Cent's pep talk for his daughter's prom date. One of the best scenes in American history. They let 50 Cent, finally they put a chef's outfit on him, let him cook for three, four minutes.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So this is what's up. For the past 16 years, my daughter's safety and protection has been my responsibility and my responsibility only. Now, for the first time in her life, I see I got to hand you that responsibility. Don't fuck up, or your mama will weep if she has to wheel your ass around every day the rest of your life.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Now, I worked on this because I want to say this to you as nice as possible. You understand? Yeah. Yes, sir.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And, you know, we didn't have a lot of the categories yet. We didn't have Van was the ringer yet. Van loves this movie. So we just said, screw it, let's run it back. This is a movie, the sequel, which we knew was coming.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I did the same thing to my daughter on his prom date. I had all the guys from the ringer in the garage. Just trying to, short fantasy, trying to intimidate him.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I'll go on Blue Sky and I'll ruin you. Next scene, my favorite scene in the movie, the Benihana scene. What you doing here, huh? Work around here?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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How many times have you watched this year? Do you go on YouTube and just type in Den of Thieves Benihana once a month?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, the food here sucks. We come here for the ass. He starts talking shit.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The staff's like, we're right here, guys. Starts talking all kinds of high school football shit. Yes. Number 55, right?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So what do you think? I was going to do this later, but what were the, what do you think Ray Merriman's middle linebacker tight end?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think he was definitely, he's too tall. He had to be defensive end middle linebacker.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

227.75

Dan, you said something interesting when we were hanging around before. The slow burn movie that hits on cable or wherever, and it does a certain whatever in the theater. This movie did well in the theater, but then... You know, one of the reasons we have this podcast, it gets a second life of its own. This is going to be one of those movies where the sequel does better than the original.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Linebacker and probably third down running back.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, they had, since we did the first pod, Antonio Pierce became the Raiders coach. He was the head coach for Long Beach Poly for like three, four years. So yeah, it was a big ass program. Yeah. Crushed you guys when I was there. Crushed you guys when you were there. Just like, just bizarre. Anyway. It's like, hey, bro, we're at a Benihana.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That leads to Ray Merriman standing up. I got family here, bro. Don't appreciate you popping off. It feels like we're going to have a Benihana fight. Right there, yeah. And then Butler's partner comes in. Have a good night, everybody. It's an unbelievable scene, but it leads to, because I think this is part of the same scene, them getting mad at Donnie and taking him to the murder tent. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I'm trying to think of the oh shit, like if you're walking into a room like that, like Joe Pesci's just getting whacked in Goodfellas because there's one second where he knows.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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When you see the giant garbage can and the guy wearing equipment because he's pouring acid in, that's rough.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's about to get blown the fuck up. Murder tent's great. The shooting range, gun range, whatever we want to call it. Nice little battle. And Big Dick's a little impressed by the shooting. Yeah, he's cycling that weapon. Yeah, he kind of likes it. There's an admiration.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. We had the fake robbery scene. which is a nice little swerve. The more you see this movie, the more you know where it's going. But that does have the, we're here for the bank's money, not yours or whatever, which is a staple. That's the Pico Savings and Loan.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And then... Oh, yeah. Leading to Donnie going in and having to steal the money, which is one of the most tense scenes when he's trapped in the little cash thing, whatever it's called, gets out. They shut the cameras off. It's like this whole five minutes. The guys have to sit there and pretend they're just waiting for the stuff to come on. Really, really good tense scene.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Then we have the shootout and the ending is the last two rewatchable scenes. I mean, the last 25 minutes of this movie is great.

The Rewatchables

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Action reveal, action reveal, action reveal. So where do you go for most rewatchable? Benihana?

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I think if he wants to pursue a relationship with the lady, at some point he's got to stand up and make it seem like he's... She's on hinge.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's over. Yeah, it's done. What's the most 2018 thing about this movie? I would say they're the smoking in the bars in LA, which I think now they would just come in and taser you.

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I mean, I... I feel like this is the last vestiges of it. But to me, it really is like the Showtime bump that this... Like when it goes on the cable.

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Yeah, the secondary life where if this had just been like carry-on on Netflix, it just comes on. I don't know if it hits the same way. I think just the fact that you could jump into the different parts of it I thought really helped it grow.

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Yeah. You don't have to come up with another one. We'll just keep going. What stage is the best? So the Donnie twist, once you've seen this movie a couple times, knowing what he's up to the whole time makes this a really fun rewatch.

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Well, tied into that, the art of bartending has aged the best. I love this quote. Lots of reps. I'm in complete control of my environment. People don't even know. So he says that, and it's good foreshadowing for what he's up to, but also like, shout out to the bartenders, man. Yeah. Always never miss a trick. Always know what's going on in the bar and the people around.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I heard everything. Yeah. Yeah. I heard everything. Filed it all away. Okay. What's aged the best? Suit stores? Guys hanging out in suit stores? Want to do that on Saturday, CR?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Want to come? You're invited. All right. Unspoken stares. Yeah. Yeah. Testosterone staring. A lot of testosterone.

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Right. I like that there's some good quotes like, come on, give me a hug, we'll save a fortune in therapy. There's some good one-liners in there. All the UFC fighters, which now that I know UFC a lot more than I did in 2018, there's some real dudes in this. Max Holloway? Yeah, Max Holloway. Bisping's at the end, right? Bisping's in this, yeah.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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You want to talk about Butler's leather jackets, Chris?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Would you, if there was the set of them, the game, the movie worn, Den of Thieves 1, leather jackets.

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Dan, I love any movie where there's a big board with photos of the crew with titles.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Shooting range showdowns? Yeah. I just like them. It's a great place for a thing because you don't know if they're just going to start shooting each other.

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You got to go shoot with them. Yeah, let's go shoot together. The big board with photos of the crew. Remember Sopranos had a whole two-episode arc where they ended in a really big episode.

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They put Tony up. Any other what's aged the best CR?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We've known each other a long time, since 2011. I'd say seven, eight times in my life with you, you just sent me a text and be like, Bill.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, tennis took some shots in this movie. Tennis took some real shots? Thank God Pickleball wasn't around at this point. This would have been really bad. Real men play football.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Every nine minutes, somebody gets... It does seem like more movies should just do it. It always works. I'm always down for it. The Fortune 3 clap award for most gif-able moment. Probably literally any moment from Benihana, I think, can be cut into a two-second.

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Great Shot Gorder Award, Most Cinematic Shot. I like that final traffic shootout. Yeah. Really cool overhead.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that looks great. This is so much fun when we get to give out a category that's from the actual movie. The Den of Thieves Benny Hanna Award for Scene Stealing Location. So is Benny Hanna... It goes to Benny Hanna. No. So we can't... So, I mean, obviously then... Listen, if Bill Russell had won the finals MVP after it was named after him, he gets the Bill Russell finals MVP. What?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's how this works. Well, that would be really impressive. Kid Cudi pursued happiness.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Kid Cudi, Pursuit of Happiness, or Where Best Need No Drop. Not a lot of music in this. Well, the music is incredible.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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No, but a lot of like with lyrics, but What It's Like by Everlast. Oh, yeah. Nice little squeeze that one in there.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink. Unless you guys can top drinking milk right from the cart at 6 in the morning. Bloody Donuts. Bloody Donuts?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Oh, yeah, the skirt steak. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot. A lot of food. It's a very good food and drink movie. Okay, the Butch's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. I have a thought, but I don't know. You want me to go first? Yeah, for sure. So there's 50 cars between the robbers trying to get away at the end and the cops.

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And I'm not sure the cops would just decide to turn a traffic light.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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standstill into an actual shootout well i have this in nitpicks because i just imagined sitting in the car you're halfway through you're like you're listening to the watch on the third second about oregon yeah he's got such a point at one point they actually going down the the and he's gonna get down get down get behind the engine block and

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's a class action suit like a week later. Were you in the traffic shootout on March 29th? What do you have for a weak link?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3225.558

What stage do you wear? Smoky inside a bar we mentioned. Big Nick going to see his daughter at school. I don't know. Yeah. I might have just had him outside the fence crying. But I like the shock value of the ending as a what's aged the worst because the second, third, fourth time you see it, it's not a shock anymore. So it's not the movie's fault.

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Right. Oh, yeah. He's just taking a Glutide.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The biggest one for me, and this isn't the movie's fault because they had a certain budget, but they filmed a lot of it in Atlanta. And I think if they knew it was going to be as big of a movie as it became, I just think we're getting more actual LA in this movie than Atlanta pretending to be LA. Because we noticed, but I would say almost everybody who sees this movie would not notice.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We have a category called the Mark Ruffalo, Vincent Hanna, Saul Rubinick, Linda Partridge Overacting Award, which doesn't even necessarily mean overacting. It's really for somebody who's dialing it up. Gerard Butler not only wins this, it's one of the reasons the movie is as much fun as it is because he's going for it the entire fucking time.

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Was there a better title for this movie, Van? I don't think so. I don't think so either.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Den of Thieves is sick. It's going to be interesting though when it has sequels because eventually like Fast and Furious became Fast Five, Fast Six, and then we shorthand. I don't know if we're going to be shorthanding Den or Thieves. Thieves Eight. Thieves Eight. I think it's going to be Thieves, right? Can you dig it award for most memorable quote?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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People that have things to hide never have much to say. Good high school yearbook quote.

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Yeah. Okay. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How does he make a word?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Ray was QB. Rick was the receiver. Rick's leading a good normal life. He lives in Austin. Never got into the family business. Yeah.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I have, uh, so this movie, what, you know, the movie reviewers, when they were doing the, how it's like heat, there's some stuff that's the same. Like they have, uh, there's bank guys over the top cop in a bad relationship, two sides casing each other out the side, the, the bad guys knowing they're being followed by the good guys trying to get info on them.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Big shootouts at the beginning of the end, hero cop confronting his wife's new guy, downtown LA, uh, The scene with the messed up hero cop trying to connect with the younger girl. And then the black cop sidekick. So there's a lot of stuff in there. I'm fine with all of it. Guess what? We love heat about as much as anything. Why can't more movies emulate heat? Why is this a bad thing?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So casting what ifs we couldn't find anyway. Not really. But the director is here. Where is he? Maybe you can tell us later. Was there a casting what if? Was there anybody that was supposed to be in this movie and it didn't happen? Where is he?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that's what the internet... See, this movie hasn't been out... What happens with the rewatchables is the movie's out 30 years, and then it's like... Every single person? Ryan Reynolds was going to do Den of Thieves, and then he backed out. You just never know what's true or not true, so this movie hasn't been out long enough. Oh, this is good. We get to give out the Van Lathan Award.

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Did this movie need more black people, Van?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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There it is. Best That Guy Award. I mean, that guy from this movie in Shot Caller, who we know is Evan Jones, but I think Chris and I are one of the only two people that know. Yeah. To me, he's got to win, but would you put a little bit else in there?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's Big Nick's wife? Yeah. Meadow Williams is Ray's girlfriend, but you didn't know her name.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So Dion Waiter's Award for best heat check in the movie. This is somebody that's in for a couple scenes, and then that's it. I have the two ladies ordering the Chinese food. You like that? Yeah, they're only in like two scenes. They're just bringing the heat. She's pissed off. She's like, go stop that guy. I knew it was coming. What?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Recasting couch director City. CR, we're obsessed with Landman right now. What if we had Allie Larder's character from Landman as Big Nick's ex-wife? Just going for it.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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How we could have gotten a funny character in this? Because it's a pretty weighty movie. I laugh a lot, though. If Dave Chappelle was Butler's sidekick. Dave Chappelle. Chill. Hold on. Bear with me.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Hold on. Hold on. But with like a bunch of gun training and stuff? That would look so weird. He's swimming against... You didn't know he had it in him, but he's got like the three moments where he really makes fun of Big Nick and it's funny. But I think I was wrong with that. I actually like... I wouldn't change... I would have changed the cast. This is where I landed.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, it starts out, we get the card at the top. Yeah. 2,400 times a year, 44 times a week, nine times a day, every 48 minutes, it's just flashing up. A bank is robbed here. And then it goes away, and then it comes back. This is the bank robbery capital of the world. I'm like, all right, I'm in.

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But I was trying to think, how do we get a funny person in this?

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Like one person who's like three times just busted Nick's balls.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's what I'm saying. Three jokes about Big Nick. I can't believe you ate that donut. That was disgusting. Right. Joke.

The Rewatchables

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Tony Romo, Chris Collinsworth, or someone else for the director's commentary. What do you have, Sierra?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Unfortunately, now when I watch ESPN NBA, I just think of CR during doors.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That scene when Donnie's in the bank room and they shut the cameras off and it's super tense there. Tony Romo easily, I think, could have come through.

The Rewatchables

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I was thinking about that yesterday as he was having an orgasm about Josh Allen. Half-assed research. So Christian, the director that's here, he started writing this movie in 2003. So this is a 15-year... Odyssey. Inspiring story, Van. You've worked on some movie projects in your life. 15 years. A decade and a half.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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This movie was released in some countries with the title Criminal Squad. Ziggy's Bar is in Atlanta. It's called Johnny's Hideaway. Oh, okay.

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It is. So there's a military consultant who did separate boot camps for both sides to train them.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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In the closing credits, the $100 bill has the serial number DOT00002018 for Den of Thieves. Got to really catch that. Takes some time. All right, Apex Mountain. Gerard Butler.

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300 probably played more at sporting events.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think it's become this. Pablo Schreiber. It's this or the wire.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Three for three suit store, for sure. Three for three suit store, great. The Federal Reserve Bank in Los Angeles. Didn't even know it was a thing, so yeah. Yeah, the Fed. Never been taken down.

The Rewatchables

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Yeah. Long Beach Pauly versus South Torrance. I'm going to say this was the fucking apex.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Shooting ranges in a movie. I still got a Beverly Hills Cop 2. Really important. Bigger for the plot. Benihana? It's actually Benihana which is unclear still. Christian, was it a Benihana? Benihana? That counts. We're counting it. This is invaluable, by the way.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Accidental text to a stripper that go to your wife in a movie? In a movie? Yes. In life? Not even close. In life, that would be Tiger Woods, right? What's the text?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Uh... Heat homage, second generation heat movies. It's basically this versus- The town. Versus Triple Frontier.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Tacking up for a street gunfight after a heist.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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48 minutes. Every 48 minutes feels like a lot.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think it's actually going to be the sequel.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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bad things happening at a donut store in a movie. I'm still going boogie nights.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. Even though that did lead to Buck being able to open his own stereo.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It was a terrible choice. And then, uh, angel city donuts. Yes. I think this was apex mountain for wherever that was. All right. Uh, Next category is Cruiser Hanks. I got Hanks' big neck. Really? Make the case.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I actually thought Cruise because it would have been the Cruise that I like where he just tries to become this alternate crazy personality.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Cruise just saying fuck it. Well, he'd be medium Nick. Okay. Yeah, I guess Cruise maybe... Can you imagine Cruise facing off against Pablo Shriver?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think if Cruise is in, Pablo is probably not in the movie. We're probably recasting.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So you think Hank's After trying to be America's uncle.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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You're the tiebreaker. It would have to be Hanks. I think you're right. I just wanted to see Cruz trying to play Big Nick.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And it was just like, I wonder if they'll believe this.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Racehorse, rock band, wrestler, fantasy team name. I'll give you Angel City Donuts or Ziggy's Hofbrau.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Oh, nice. Long Beach Polly is good. All right, pick a Nets. Scottish Gerard Butler as a South Torrance football star. Go.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But he hides it pretty well, but I just have the background of knowing. So Hawthorne to Wilmington 14-mile ride. Just going to flag that, just having lived in L.A. for the last 22 years. 40 miles is a long way. This is the collateral rule of L.A. traffic. Yeah, there's some math stuff. There's more later.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Should Donnie have immediately asked for an attorney when he woke up in a hotel room with P. Oliver himself? Well, I think... Like, I would have. Did you get the impression that L.A.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. I'm a cop in the gang. Before he does that, maybe I'd like to talk to an attorney.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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They don't be asking for attorneys, man. So, Van's got to explain this to the audience. What? The interrogation. Do you guys know what interrogation videos are?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I would ask for an attorney if I was Donnie. We covered why does Merriman know this much about the Bank of Banks? I don't know how he gets that information in 2018. What do you have? I have some more.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can find all the new episodes that we do on this feed on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel. Has a lot of the old episodes as well. Some fun clips. The big picture with Sean Fantasy and Amanda Dobbins. And some of the extra movie stuff that we've been doing.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

461.8

So, C.R., do your thing about a crime movie versus a heist movie.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4611.09

Yeah, maybe just drop it off at the front desk.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So Donnie bags up all the $100 bills that are being shredded, and he's got I don't know how many bags. Based on the weight of $100 bills, $1 million would weigh 22 pounds. Okay. So $30 million in $100 bills weighs 661.5 pounds, according to the internet.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Do you think he dumped 661.5 pounds over that thing in two minutes? I mean, you'd probably be like, this is for all the Marvels. And those bags were tiny. Yeah. It's a nitpick. I mean, I've seen this movie 17 times.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So Donnie, because he has access to the people that go in and out of the bank, then he writes down the entire ventilation system on a bunch of napkins? I just want to talk it out.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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How many days was the Chinese food order up above the bathroom? There's probably an answer to that. It's at least five. So if you have Chinese food in the fridge for five days, it's risky. I'm trying to think what could have been eaten by either of those ladies over the court. Does the Chinese food exist? Would it have to be cold?

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, it was cold, but remember... So I'm saying initially cold, like a cold, low-main, something like that?

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Because if it's like just beef with broccoli, that thing's like moving by Thursday.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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One of those things smelled really bad, I'm guessing. So Merriman Sprinting, Yeah? Wasn't impressed. Guy was supposed to be like this kick-ass football player. I didn't like how he ran. I don't know whether like some back injuries.

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It just didn't feel athletic enough to me. Combine, I'm crossing him off my list. Well, he didn't go pro. Right. Yeah.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We're making excuses for him. He looked slow.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Turned into, like, me insulting the military. Well, the body armor is probably heavy, too. I don't know. I just thought I wasn't impressed with Pablo.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, didn't love it. Yeah. CR, you did this when you initially wrote about this movie for The Ringer. You mapped out going from Montebello to the Federal Reserve, Los Angeles branch, all the way down to Alameda Street. Yeah, Alameda Corridor. It's a long time. And it could explain why they were in traffic and ended up getting caught.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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They put so much time and energy and thought into how to break into this bank. They never factored in the traffic part.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I can go along with that. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TVL, Blackcaster, Untouchable.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4994.333

Next category is, is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Sam Jackson? No. Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall? Do we add Big Nick to this category going forward? What movie's worse with Big Nick?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5011.084

I'm happy to do that. Okay. What movie would Big Nick not make better? Like rom-coms he'd make better? Horror films? Just be coming into a house where there's like an exorcism?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Hey, gotta get across the fucking Edmund Pettus Bridge. Let me tell you something, brother. Yeah, I'm in. So we'll add Big Nick.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Wayne! He's back. Just one Oscar, who gets it? Should we just say Christian because he's here?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5097.45

Probably unanswerable questions. Best and worst job for the people driving the armored truck. Worst job is sitting in the back. Yes. Inside. Because that guy always gets blown up if anything bad happens. I would be like, we're fucking drawing straws to see who's sitting in the back.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, the CR. With Donnie meets Merriman, that scene when he goes over and they're all like grimly eating barbecue outside. It looks like the Boogie Nights house. Did you notice that?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5285.57

Because there's the pool. When they show the back, it's on the left, but I researched this and all of this movie was filmed in Atlanta, basically, so it was not the Boogie Nights house at this point.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I didn't put him in Apex Mountain because we know what his Apex Mountain was.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that year when his album broke was his Apex Mountain.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5341.192

But this was, I think, the best movie that he's been in.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5359.67

The Indian Red Zawadney Award, what happened the next day? Den of Thieves 2.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5364.216

Yeah. What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie that's not the Chinese food that's stuck in the bathroom?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Oh, see, I had that. I had Pablo's vest in this movie.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The Coach Finstock Award Best Life Lesson. Never underestimate a bartender. Yeah. Never. That's definitely what I left the film thinking about. Or if you're going to... If you're going to pull off a heist, maybe try to figure out a better traffic situation if you're going to spend 10 weeks casing a bank.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5476.407

There you go. Merriman's crew has more size. Yeah. Because Ray's probably, what, five inches taller than anyone? He's five inches unsized more.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5491.82

I mean, obviously, the correct answer is the town because you get Jim, who fucking takes all these guys.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that's true. Who won the movie? Christian. Christian.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, 15 years of working on a movie, then all of a sudden it leads to this all these years later.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

556.346

Well, you mentioned heat. So the biggest criticism of this movie with the douchey people who reviewed it, they know who they are. They're in the wrong. Was that it was a heat ripoff. We prefer to think of it, it's the Sons of Heat, right? Triple Frontier. This movie. What are the other Sons of Heat? Because Heat comes out in 1995.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's interesting because it so rarely happens that they make a movie that has expectations for just, I hope this movie does okay in the theaters.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I would say either Christian or Pablo Schreiber because this is one of those movies that makes you wonder like, man, should... There have been more stuff for him. Could there have been an action franchise for him? I don't know. He's had a really good career, done a bunch of things, but could there have been a signature hook franchise action thing for him?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's like your people watch that, the nerds. My people? The ringerversers.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Ray's girl? No. I think this movie has the right amount of sex. Yeah. All right. We're going to wrap it up. Thank you to Lionsgate. And check out Den of Thieves 2, Pantera. All right, that's it for the Den of Thieves re-rewatchables. Don't forget, we're going to be doing a mailbag at some point this month or next month.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So if you want to send a question that you want us to answer, a category idea, whatever, just send it to the rewatchables33 at gmail.com. We will see you, not sure when next. It could be later this week. It could be next week. Stay tuned.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And there's a bunch of movies that are clearly influenced in different ways.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

64.145

You can subscribe and you'll get all of it by subscribing to Ringer Movies. You can subscribe to my YouTube channel as well, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Speaking of me, you can send us Any suggestions, ideas, whatever you want for the rewatchables, because I think we're going to do a mailbag pretty soon.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The town, yeah. Yeah, that was another one. So I had crime movie versus heist movie. A bank robbery movie for bank robbery fans? Oh, yeah. There's some touches.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The culture. Yeah, the culture of Robin Banks. And then just a lot of alpha male stare downs.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And you mentioned one of them before, but this movie, you could have maybe done two stare downs and they have like four or five.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

733.096

Yeah. Yeah. You have Benihana. You have the gun range. You have in the... Prom date. Well, you have... And then you have the day after when Pablo Schreiber's character comes on.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

766.78

Would you be able to recognize people from a high school you played?

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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22 years later? Okay. Yes. Just wanted to make sure.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All right. So after watching this movie a bunch of times, and the first time we did the pod, the movie had been out probably like a year and a half. I think so. I've seen it at least 10 times since. This movie checks a lot of boxes for the kind of thing we love, including when people say things like, what happened back there? We're cop killers now. The flashback of the parole prisoner leaving.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that was best. All right, Ben Wentz. We're cop killers now. That's good.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that's okay. That's two takes. We have one of my favorites, when a paroled prisoner leaves and the prison guard has to give the, see you soon, Ray. Such a dick move.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

83.007

So I have a good batch of stuff already, but if you want to send anything else along the way, you can send it to therewatchables33 at gmail. What you're about to listen to, we taped a couple weeks ago. We love the movie Den of Thieves. We'd already done it on the rewatchables a few years ago. We decided to do it again. We were trying to actually experiment with something in the LA Spotify office.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We have a cop saying, yeah, I guess I'm getting divorced.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We have... We have the bank that's never been robbed. Oh, my God. And that's why we're going to rob it. A fucking staple.

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And somehow there's a ton of information about the place and ventilation of it. The guy on the phone talking to the cops, you just killed a hostage. Boom. Love that. And then I like when there's intricate detail about shooting. Where, like in this one, he's like, suspects wearing body armor, limb and head shots only. It's like, that's some fucking deep dive shit. Limb and head shots only.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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This movie's playing it off. So Gerard Butler, who I knew from 300... I knew from Law Abiding Citizen. I knew from a movie my family loves called Chasing Mavericks.

The Rewatchables

The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

927.548

That was a big movie in the Simmons house. You're not an Olympus' Fallen guy? Well, he did the two Fallen movies.

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But there was some rom-com stuff with him. It was like, is he going to be Nick Cage? Is he going the Ryan Reynolds path? What is this? And then he finds himself in Big Nick, Chris.

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The Re-‘Den of Thieves’ LIVE With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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out who he was in hollywood but when gerard figured it out who is he who is did he figure it out yeah yeah all right all right all right well butler gained 25 pounds for this movie yeah and you know sometimes you hear with method actors maybe maybe off the screen they're trying to capture what's in there with the character you just get the feeling butler might have been getting after it a tiny bit well i just said it's perfect for big nick though big yeah doesn't sleep

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, it wasn't great. They could have stunt doubled him maybe.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Of course I know him. He's me. We got to save C-3PO. We find out that Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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An offense. So J.J. Redick, plumbers, and whatever he said.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

1055.711

I was trying to think, like, if, like, Shane and Sharp not being on first take anymore, if they have to jumpstart the ratings, they should do segments where they do, like, stuff like them actually breaking down Obi-Wan versus Vader and just being like, Obi tanked the fight!

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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What is he doing is a good question. Two more scenes. The Millennium Falcon comes back to save Luke, which I don't remember seeing the experience of seeing this in the theater other than being like, whoa, outer space. But I guess a lot of times people cheered in the theater when the Falcon came.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

1100.451

money falcon showed up that was like a a moment then i have you now then i don't know where he's knocked out and they don't kill vader yeah don't kill vader great shot kid that was one in a million i have you now what look out

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I'm going to do my CR. Thanks, Luke Wilson. Could have been Harrison Ford. How does it take a word right now? Chewbacca, most overrated sidekick ever. Stands out everywhere he goes. You can't slide into any. Super tough right now. Just wait. It's the hottest take. I'm sorry. I thought I was doing the hottest takes. You're right. Everywhere you go with him, he stands out. He's a fucking behemoth.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Who's not going to notice him? He speaks an unintelligible language that only one other person understands. He can't do anything. Okay, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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He never uses his size or strength, and I don't understand why he was even on the stage.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Remember the movie Sully? Who was the co-pilot? I don't remember. Aaron Eckhart. Of course I remember. I don't remember. All right. Okay.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

133.563

I don't know if he has a name. Yeah, he does. He has a name in the movie? Yeah. How do they name characters that we've never seen?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It sounds like you're making the case. For me, it's 100% the Cantina. You think it's the Cantina? I love the Cantina. I love the Cantina.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

142.236

This is a short scene for me. I just wrote down, Vader fucks up the conference room meeting and choke forces out a dude. Fucks up.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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There's been so many movies since, and so many of them have cribbed from...

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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He was on one in this movie. Mastermind. Really using the Force in the wrong ways. In a dark way, almost, yeah. What's the most 1977 thing about this movie, CR?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

1562.855

I had Mark Hamill's Cassidy Boys Andy Gibb haircut kind of vibe. It's very 1977. He could have been on 20 TV shows. Ironically, he was on 8 is Enough and The Pilot. He played the old The Sun, a show where Dick Van Patten had eight kids and then got out of the show so he could be in Star Wars. He's like, can you please let me out of the contract? Interesting. Chance to be in Star Wars.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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He just had another kid. Schrager said he just had another one.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

1642.535

Knowing some of her interests. Yeah, don't get too excited about showing any movie to your kids because they can always just watch 10 minutes and go, Dad, this sucks. Can we go get extra? That's in play, but there's a 0% chance she's not interested in Leia.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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i am watching new york detroit well for same for what saves the best the guy hitting his head oh yeah which became lore and then the stormtrooper coming in and he hits his head and it became a thing and instead of editing out lucas added a sound effect to it and it became a whole yeah i think i alluded to this but just the literal beats of the trench run which i think

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

1989.281

I mean, let's be honest. Vader, not like an awesome hang. No. Okay. All that breathing. Yeah. Yeah. He'll choke somebody out there in a conference. Very angry.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

202.287

It was like when Dylan Brooks talked back to Jimmy Butler.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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You think he got down every once in a while or no? No. We don't know what happened to his manhood. No, it burned off. Did it burn off?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I have some what's aged the best, including... Mentioned this earlier, the greatest secret probably ever kept in a movie, if you knew, which I assume Lucas knew all the beats for the first three movies. Yeah. And he doesn't tip it off at all. But then when you watch it again, he's tipping it off in a couple spots where you're like, oh, I know. I know what you're trying to do there.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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A couple more would say it's the best. Obi-Wan is the ultimate mentor. I just like mentor movies. It's fun. Every Darth Vader entrance we mentioned. Lightsabers. I had the wrestler Vader. Great gimmick.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

216.729

Sometimes you know. Sometimes you can tell by the pupils. It's alright to enjoy every Vader moment of this movie, right? To make me a bad person.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Braun Strowman. Jokes about the Star Wars bar we mentioned. How about the foreshadowing of the aunt and uncle? Luke's just not a farmer. He has too much of his father in him. The guy goes, that's what I'm afraid of. He knows. He knows. Creating a distinct world of weird aliens, creatures, and villains has aged the best. A lot of people have tried. Opening credit scroll.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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The Carrie Fisher-Harrison Ford affair during the movie? It's a what's aged the best for Star Wars Lord. Nobody knew until 2016. It's a what's aged the best? Well, it's just an amazing... Everyone thought they knew everything about this movie. 39 years after the movie. He was 33. She was 19. He was married. Do you think that aged the best?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

2249.74

Give it. All right. We're all on the same team here. I'm with it. Here's what aged the best. They kept us hidden for four decades. Nobody knew. And then she wrote this book and she's like, yeah, I had an affair with Harrison Ford the whole time. And it makes so much sense.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It makes so much sense. She's looking at Luke. She's looking at, yeah. You know, you can see the fire.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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All the Star Wars parodies all over the place and everything. It's still going. Star Wars. The Bill Murray and SNL. Spaceballs. And then I really like this quote from Mark Hamill, because he said how he was struggling, how audiences associated with Luke. You have that, I'm only defined by this part, and this is just who I am the rest of my life thing. And he told Carrie Fisher about it.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And she said, look, I am Princess Leia. Princess Leia, you are Luke. Get over it. And then he said she was able to cut to the quick and see the positives. I learned so much about her. But that's a good attitude to have.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Get ready to learn Chinese! The Star Wars bar. By the way, you can throw in after I'm done. I tried to cut it down. I got you. I think this is one of the best scenes of the entire 70s. It has led to a lot of comedy, a lot of jokes over the years of, oh my God, what bar did we just walk into? Is this a Star Wars bar? Just a million of those. We don't serve droids here? Yeah. Droid racism. Why not?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, right. And it's his weakness. That's true. We'll take a break, come back with more categories. All right, see our Great Shot Gordo Award, Most Cinematic Shot. I have a feeling I know what your pick's going to be, but what is it?

The Rewatchables

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The Binary Sunset. That's right. On the Blu-ray, they have each scene titled, and I just happened to pause it during that scene, and that was what the chapter was called, The Binary Sunset.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It's like Sean in the early 2000s after another jet sloss. Just staring out in the Long Island Sound after the butt hole. Wondering if anything good would ever happen with the jets.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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That's true. You were doing all right. You were an alternate great shot.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness Award for Best Needle Drop. I mean, Star Wars bar music?

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Main title or Return Home, which is basically like the... Main title's good. Main title's great. The Sean Fantasy Award for Stealth Homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm. Did you have one?

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Yeah. That seemed like it borrowed a lot from that movie, which I've never seen, by the way.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And Fortress is available from the Criterion Collection. The Chris Ryan Award. Would this movie be better if a main character smoked? You didn't know I was giving this one. Yeah, I think Han.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Greedo Lights? Greedo Lights? I don't know. The Chess Rockwell and Brocklanders Award for Best Character Name. There's a lot of options here. So many. Darth Vader's a really good name. Darth Vader, Han Solo, Luke Skywalker. Luke Skywalker's like trying like a whiff too hard. What was he called before that?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It's like, you guys want to come out tonight? I'm going out with Darth Vader. You're like, who? What? Guy's name is Darth?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I thought yours would be, 25 years from now, do not ask me about Joel Embiid. High school year. That would have been amazing. Yeah. The Butcher's Girlfriend Award for weak link of the film. What do you got, Van?

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I'm excited to talk about it on Casting What Ifs. I do think, when you think about how good Carrie Fisher is and how good Harrison Ford is, and you would never leave this movie going, you know who's fucking awesome in Star Wars was Mark Hamill.

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He's, I think Lucas probably saw him as the system quarterback. Yeah. who's just like, I don't need a lot from... I have so much other stuff going on. I don't really need to shoot the moon with this character. And maybe that's... I just want him to be young and a little annoying and a little whiny, and then he can grow over the course of the movie.

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But I just... The fact that this was the peak of his acting career, I don't think is an accident. Well, I mean... I'm sorry, Star Wars universe.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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So you think, I'll step on one cast and what if like Kurt Russell tested for this role. Is that too much testosterone for the role? I think he's a little too cool. He's too cool. He's too cool. Is it like a Matthew Broderick in War Games kind of? Is that what Lucas wanted from this?

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Did you have a hottest take or no? You did it? A hottest take?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Porkins. What stage is the worst? Look, I'll just start us off with this. I hate this whole Star Wars for New Hope. Star Wars was like Jaws, Rocky, Godfather. Then we somehow decided we had to change the name. I've never really understood it. I get it, but I think it's annoying. I think it's annoying. We're doing Star Wars. Which one? New Hope? It's like doing fucking Star Wars. The first one.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I have every moment when it's just R2-D2 and C-3PO is like watching Jalen Green try to run the Rockets offense. Just post up Shingun. Can Shingun just come in here? Can we get a jump hook from him?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Aunt... It's coming. Aunt Beru? Yeah. Mm-hmm. It might have been a chance maybe to put in Anne Margaret or Natalie Wood. Oh, wow. Let's put a little sexier Aunt Beru.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Okay. Some sort of attachment. What? A little milfy. You trying to fuck Aunt Beru? No, I just wanted a little more sex appeal. A little milfy. We have two women in the whole movie. We have Aunt Beru and we have 19-year-old Princess Leia.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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The laser bullets. Yeah. So what do they do when they hit you?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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What's Aged the Worst? This is just for Sean. 20th Century Fox released 20 movies a year, and this movie became so successful that they only released seven in 1978. Just lost out on some great movies. Damn. I didn't know that. Did they just hold the other ones? They were just like, let's fucking ride Star Wars. Tell that director to fuck off.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Do you think C-3PO should have had a Boston accent and then got mad at the bartender and be like, you think you're better than me?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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The Force was telling him not to tap his sister. It's like, Luke, no. Don't do this. What's aged the worst? So Marvel Comics published a Star Wars comic book series, which ran for 107 issues from 1977 to 1986. Why did they stop? There's a lot of comics out there. I wonder what made them just, I feel like by the mid eighties, maybe star Wars were starting to die down a little bit.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I feel like that comic book thing could have just kept going. They have like a lot of star Wars material. Um, I have one more big wood stage, the worst, but what do you guys have anything else?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. Probably two of the best villains of the last 50 years.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

3331.939

What's aged the worst? A 1978 Johnny Carson episode. Scientist Carl Sagan went on a heater. Talked about the overwhelming whiteness of the film. And then another writer named Walter Bremond. writing for the African-American newspaper New Journal and Guide, said that Darth Vader reinforces a stereotype that black is evil. This is a very white movie.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

335.849

No, the Verdict Bar is number one. Is this bar the same set as the bar in Raiders?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I don't know if you want to do this movie, need more black people category here.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Do you think that was a response to the Carl Sagan type of stuff?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

3463.542

Chasing Amy on the rewatchables list. Couple more small ones. We talked about the 20th anniversary when they digitally remastered everything and altered some stuff and how upset everybody got. And then there was a Star Wars holiday special on November 17th, 1978 that Lucas kind of agreed to because he wanted to keep, you know, there was really no cable rewatchable system back then.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

3488.3

And he kind of wanted to keep the movie relevant. And it's a famous abomination. Like there's been oral histories about it. Have you watched it? I have seen it. It's been taken off YouTube. Then people put it back up. It's one of those. I think Lucas spends half his time probably just getting copies taken off. Get that thing off.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

350.338

We get Monster with testicles on his chin. We get the negotiation with Han Solo for 17K. And most important, we get a shootout with Han and Greedo, which becomes the most... I never knew anything about this. It's like the security film. The Star Wars universe loses their fucking minds about this. Yeah. Why is this so important?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And then the last one, I talked about those early bird certificate boxes, which were empty boxes that promised the receiver they would get the figures once they'd actually been made. They sold for $16 at the time, and the actual figures arrived two months later. IOUs for Christmas because they didn't have the toys ready. What a fucking debacle.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Honestly, how much money did they lose just on 1978 Christmas? Van, you're up. Flex category.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Wow. You really went for it there. Yeah. I wonder if that inspired Game of Thrones in any way.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Maybe. Can't be counted out. Ruffalo Hanna, Rubenick Partridge overacting word. I got Chewbacca.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

3683.496

How about Mark Hamill getting whiny loud unhappy a couple times? Oh, yeah. There's a couple scenes where Alec Guinness is like, God damn it. Why did I take this movie? I'm fucking trading lines with Mark Hamill.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

3704.761

Sean, do you have a CR thing? Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How does it take a word?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

3779.096

Casting what ifs. De Palma was casting Carrie at the exact same time. And him and Lucas teamed up, and they did all their casting together and looked at all the same actors, 30, 40 a day. And a bunch of the actors that they looked at for Star Wars ended up in Carrie. William Catt, Amy Irving, Travolta. Do you think those guys are like, gee, thanks.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Travolta as Luke Skywalker, who was not auditioned for that, would have been interesting. Wouldn't he be Han?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Which is early years. It might hit. Keep holding. So Hamill is cast over, I mean, literally all the names from this era were mentioned, but these ones seem real. Robbie Benson, William Cat, Kurt Russell, and Charles Martin Smith. Who the fuck is that?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Andrew Stevens? The actor Andrew Stevens? Yeah. who ended up in a lot of erotic thrillers, said he and Mark Hamill were both up for an ill-fated TV series called The Oregon Trail, as well as a film called Star Wars. I got The Oregon Trail. 20 years later, it was Shane and Tweed and some Skin and Max movie. Oh, Shane and Tweed. They're worse fates. Wow. Carrie Fisher cast over Karen Allen.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Filed that one away for Raiders. Amy Irving, who ends up in Carrie and ends up having an affair with Steven Spielberg. Cindy Williams from Laverne and Shirley, who was in American Graffiti 2. And then Linda Pearl, who was bouncing around and never really found the right thing.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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But then, who knows if Jodie Foster, how real this was, but she was offered the role and couldn't do it because she had movies. But she definitely was circled. She's pretty young. I almost didn't believe that one. Russell auditioned for Luke and Han Solo.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Well, there's two where the actors claim that they turned it down, which I think like if we were actors, I would just start doing this when I hit my mid-50s. Be like, yeah, I turned down Hannibal Lecter. Demi came to me. I just didn't want to do it. But James Caan claimed he turned it down. And Pacino claimed that he turned it down. Pacino as Han Solo, it just, that movie sucks.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, all of those are great. That's a great sketch. Dreyfuss, they almost used his voice for, I think, C-3PO or one of those. He was in that orbit of guys. Yeah, he was in American Graffiti. And then before Al Guinness was cast... The guy who starred in all the Kurosawa movies was asked to be Obi-Wan.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

400.009

Han shot first. That's why they have the Han shot first t-shirts. But then in 97, what happens?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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They thought about Orson Welles for Darth's voice, decided his voice was too known because he was in a lot of commercials.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And then Peter Mayhew and David Prowse were both tall and asked which one they wanted, Chewbacca or Darth Vader. And Mayhew wanted to play a good guy. Prowse wanted to be a bad guy. They ended up doing that. Interesting choice.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Right. All right, well, maybe the movie's too old to even know who the that guy was. Yeah, that's true.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And the fucking, and the Star Wars nerds lost their minds. So this is the deal. This was like the most egregious violation ever. They retconned his decency. Right.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Re-cashing couch director of City. Boston? Star Wars. I have a Luke Skywalker suggestion. How about Mark Harmon? Oh, coming off playing at UCLA. Yeah. He's mid twenties. Athletic.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Like that's a, that's a beautiful, less handsome, more handsome, athletic, but kind of on solos corner a little bit. Yeah. A little bit. Um, Kurt Russell was like 74. Kurt Russell, I think is the answer. Do you have our recasting couch? No. Okay. We're losing Sean. He's getting tired.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4221.753

I'm here. All right. Research. Han Solo in the originals versions of the script was a large green skin monster with gills. He's almost more like Greedo. I don't really understand what happened there. We did all the ILM stuff. Lucas, a lot of, I wouldn't say a lot of great feedback on him as a director.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Care official said, gave very little direction and just would say like, faster or more intense.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4270.758

What was the movie we did where they... Oh, Spielberg in Jaws when he decided not to go in the last day because he was so afraid they were going to do something terrible to him. Yeah. They're going to throw him in the water, right? Or something like that. There's some nerdy movie stuff from this. Like when Luke says, I can't see a thing in this helmet or whatever, he actually couldn't.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And they just kind of kept him in. The Chewbacca suit, for some reason, the trash compactor scene, they were in the water too long and it just started to stink and it stunk for the rest of the movie. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4331.536

Mark Hamill said studio executives were unhappy that Chewbacca had no clothes and kept saying that he should be wearing shorts. That would have been terrible. Right.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4370.525

That's all I have for half-assed research in case you guys have anything. Because the next category is blind call for Rosillo. Oh, shit. Wow. You know he's crushing tape right now. I think this will go right to voicemail, but we're about to find out.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4392.421

Hold it to the mic also. Yeah. CR is the most excited for this of any gimmick we've ever done on a podcast. He might be going to the Laker game.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4409.158

Yeah. He probably went early to go talk to an assistant coach.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4417.08

No. Jesus Christ. Oh, tough. Mid-lift. Tough one. Really needed his takes. Apex Mountain. George Lucas? No. Probably after Empire and Raiders. As a director? No, we're talking everything. I would say it's after Empire and Raiders.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I'm going to say 81 range. Is this his apex? The third one's coming. Everyone's pumped about it. Raiders comes out. It's a fucking massive hit. And him and Spielberg have vanquished everybody.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4515.352

He still has a decent beard. Hasn't fucked his beard situation up yet.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4528.117

You could say it's selling to Disney for $4 billion. I was about to say you could say that. That's up there. The Galaxy, Apex Mountain?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4574.644

One, two, or three for her. Like her best brothers next year.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4593.158

I think cocaine was just running rampant. Yeah. I'm sure there were some choices that she might have gotten talked into at about 3.30 in the morning.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It's just his face. Dropping the from your title, is it The Star Wars or The Facebook?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4644.437

That's when he became a beloved American treasure once and for all.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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They'll come, Ray. Baseball is a part of us, Ray! People will come. They won't even know. They'll give you $5. Harrison Ford? No. We just said no. 20th Century Fox.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

467.07

Can I ask you a random question? They shouldn't have changed that. What would have been a better name for a rapper? Han Solo or Greedo? Greedo is the rapper's name. Greedo is Grape Tree Crips. I can bring him in here. Is it actually Greedo or is it like an extended name? His name is O3 Greedo. But that's not Greedo.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. Their profits went from $39 million to $77 million in one year. Yeah, they doubled their stock rate or something. Nerds. Apex Mountain for nerds.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4704.519

Yeah. You all said the nerd sketch on SNL. Yeah. They're just rounding the shape, finding out they had other people. Revenge of the nerds. A nerd.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4739.006

It does. The lightsaber sound? Yeah, of course, lightsabers. Really, really good. I think... We always say this with certain movies, but the widescreen TV, better soundbar, that whole era has just blown this movie out.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4816.65

I was going to say 1982 Cruise. That's my answer. My God. Outsiders Cruise. Like Cruise that still had the baby. Yeah. He's filming losing it with Shelley Long and making Star Wars.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4858.949

I had him as Vader's lead counsel. Yeah. He just would have dialed it up. Go to the Hunger Games. Craig, you have a flex category. What is it?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

49.77

All right, rewatchables part two. How many rewatchables have we done two parters for? We did Boogie Nights. Pulp got two?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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All right, pick a nits. It's time. Yeah. I think I'm going to have the most fun with this because I don't really know what happens.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

4952.476

Hey, we're doing rewatchables. Put it on the mic. With CR and Sean and Van and Craig. What's up, Craig? What's up? What's up, Ryan? What's up, man? We're doing Star Wars. I've seen it. Any off-the-cuff takes?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that's a great take. Great take. Thanks for chiming in. I'll see you at the Laker game tonight.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5070.607

I'll just start over picking nits. R2-D2 and C-3PO just randomly ejecting and landing on Luke's planet right near his house.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

512.579

I have R2 and Chewie playing circle chess. What's going on there, CR?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5136.029

You know what he couldn't do? Get a drink at the cantina. Yeah. It's true. Get out of here, motherfucker. We don't save you, Kanye. How'd they get on the Death Star? Or not the Death Star, whatever the big planet is. Which one? When they come back in and the thing pulls them in. Oh, no. The death saw. It's a tractor.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And then they just kind of let them in and they're like, there's nobody here. Well, they hide. They hide under the panels. No, I know they hide, but that's how bad the stormtroopers were. They're like, I don't see them. They're legendarily incompetent. Yeah. Like, how fucking terrible are you? They're just like, I don't see them.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5178.737

Well, the aiming, I think, is a new pick. There's a lot of... Only Rambo First Blood Part II has more straight, five feet away shots that just miss. Right. Luke, 130 people miss him from... Right here.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5208.118

How do you give away locations to secret rebel bases when you're in outer space? What do you mean?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5223.211

How do they know where everything is in the galaxy? Who? Just everybody. Like maps? So if we're going to go here, go there. They've mapped the galaxy. The computers. How do you map the big galaxy when it's infinite space?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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You're a flat Star Wars-er? I'm just saying, where's the end of it? It's like a force field at the end.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5263.819

I didn't really know the answers to any of those questions. There you go. The princess's outfit. I just think it's way dirtier by the time we get to the last half hour of this movie. They're in a fucking garbage dump thing. She's getting batted around. Everybody else, she's just perfectly white. Not where I thought you were going to go with that.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It's draping? That was great. Yeah. But yeah, I just think by the time we get to the hour 30 mark, probably dirt all over the place for her. What do you have for nitpicks?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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But for our job as the rewatchables is to treat this movie as its own movie that came out in 1977.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5348.869

I'm asking. They're your rules. So if you want to put, you know. I don't know the answer because I do think it's like if we did 48 Hours, And now we know Keo is the Iceman from another 48 Hours, which is... Oh, I see what you're saying. So now when I watch 48 Hours, do I have to assume Keo is the Iceman when I watch 48 Hours?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I take the maybe Lucas is full of shit and he just made this movie and then afterwards he's like, by the way, he's like, oh yeah, I had the whole thing sketched out.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Well, it's interesting. After Lost ended and he wrote a long letter to Lindelof and Carlton Cuse being like, as somebody who wants to know where my story is going, I really respect that, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, eh, maybe he's trying to tell us something. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Obi-Wan murdered or suicide mission? He sacrificed himself. Sacrificed himself, yeah. Sacrificed himself. Or maybe he just didn't want to fight Vader. Felt like he didn't want to take the L. Oh, he thought he was shrinking from the competition.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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The only case for it is he wants to pass the torch a la LeBron to Luka and be like, this is your team now, Luka. I'm going to have Anthony Edwards kill me with a lightsaber right now so I can give you the Lakers.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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But it still doesn't make sense because the best option is just fucking kill Darth Vader. He's right there. He probably couldn't have killed Darth Vader. I think he powered it out.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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He didn't do it. It's a good career move by Obi-Wan because it's like, I can either lose this fight and look like a fucking loser or I sacrifice myself.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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So which, who's the Phoenix Sons in this scenario? Who's Sarver? Tarkin is Ishpia.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5746.855

Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black, cast are untouchable. This movie did all of them eventually?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

58.474

Wow. Didn't even know this was going to be a part two, but then part one lasted so long, we were like, Jesus, we haven't even gotten to a category yet.

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Henry Hill? Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Longlegs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm?

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

5865.324

That's good. I like it. Oh, man. Ryan Rucco? You do it. Luke's feeling the force!

The Rewatchables

‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Just one Oscar, who gets it? George, I guess. Yeah, best picture. Sound? Williams?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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The sound is amazing in this movie. I would go sound. All right. Probably unanswerable questions. Did they intentionally make C-3PO look like an Oscar?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Why didn't Chewbacca have genitalia? We don't know that he doesn't.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Does he have a butthole? What are we doing? What kind of creature are we talking about here? Is he a Ken dog? I imagine he's like a giant Does he go to the bathroom? Does Chewbacca go to the bathroom?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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so it goes to the bathroom i would say so yeah okay do you wish there were more times in star wars where someone was like i gotta take a piss halloween 1978 most people dressed the same probably the most i got i'm trying to think of another halloween yeah where there was more people in the exact same costume

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. Michael Jackson. He'd wear open-collar white shirts. Okay, motherfuckers! All right, Van. Top five sci-fi women Hall of Fame.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Well, during the circle chest scene, we learn that it's not wise to upset a Wookiee. Luke tries to figure out the force of the lightsaber. Solo's like, fuck it, I don't believe in the force. You guys are fucking crazy. And then Obi's just coming in with the, your eyes can deceive if you don't trust them. Doing his thing. I really like all that's going on in that scene.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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She's in there. TV shows count. So you can go Aaron Gray, late 70s. Incredible Battle of the Network Stars performances. Go look those up on YouTube.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yes. Yes, you would. Don't make Craig mad, though. Sean Young. He didn't see it. Not the best actress in the world. You don't know Sean Young. No, no way out. Yeah, I know who Sean Young is. Wasn't in. Thumbs down from Craig. Thumbs down to Sean Young.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I think lightsaber's the answer, but we ban cars from this category. The thing Luke's driving around, whatever that fucking thing is.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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The Darth mask, I think, would be the other one. I'm trying to think what thing from this movie would go for the most money. Gotta be the lightsaber. That's a good category. So Luke's lightsaber. The game-worn Luke's... Yeah.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Trust the force. We'll always have good TV shows, Chris Ryan. Trust the force. You got another one. The bear is going to be really good season four in June. Trust the force. Reach out with your feelings for the bear. You and Andy Greenwald will have good podcasts. Trust it. Trust it, my son.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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There's a board game going on. There's somebody trying to figure out the force. Han Solo's cracking shit. You went on that scene? Of course. Okay. I have the Falcon crew breaking into the mothership. What are our thoughts on Chewie with a gun? Oh! Oh!

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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You're really going Harrison Ford? George Lucas made $4 billion from this movie.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, maybe Sinners. Sinners took us into a world. Terminator did too.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I guess we'll have to let the people decide. The nerds are going to get mad about Chewbacca. I'm going to take some shit for that. What else?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Are they gonna find her? Vader? How do you feel about Vader?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Who said, why can't we go Lucas on it and just dive back and just try to keep making it better? It's a good idea.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Well, I'll save it for Apex Mountain. All of a sudden, I'm pissed off. Right. It turns out he's not feeling the force. It's Bill Belichick's girlfriend who's trying to interrupt the scene.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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We're not talking about that. Stop talking about that. How do you feel about escape is not his plan? I must face him alone.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Let's take categories because there is a lot to cover. Most rewatchable scene. Opening shootout scene in Darth Entrance. That's in there, right? Yeah.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Mm-hmm. It's like we got to do a steel cage match and really figure this out. Yeah. We've had a couple other matches. There's some double count outs. Loser goes home. Loser leaves town. This is a loser leaves town. Loser leaves his corporeal form. And we go right into the garbage hole. What would you call it?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And we get the garbage snake. Now, was that in the original movie or are they ad shit?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It's a dark, dark, dark movie. This whole scene is really, really, this is, would you say this is the, what's our category for the, okay, motherfucker,

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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First appearance of Darth Vader. Yeah. Luke meets Obi-Wan.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Squashing scenes always work where people are like, oh, oh.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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He didn't knock my socks off in either viewing, but maybe I missed some stuff. A lot more stuff.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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So good. Darth versus Obi-Wan. No, I am the master. Your pal's a weak old man. I'm starting to sound like Chun-Li a little bit. Oh, Bloodsport.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part Two) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Little Kendrick Perkins in the low post kind of jump hook energy.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It's like Ciara was saying this about Anthony Edwards last year during the playoffs.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I have a confession. Okay. I feel like I should have gotten more involved in the Star Wars. This actually made me, watching the second time, I'm like, this is a bad job by me. I should have gotten more involved. I'm actually excited to watch the second one now. You've seen it though. Yeah, I saw it in the theater. Okay. The second one. I saw all of them in the theater. I went there. You had to go.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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You were just left out of the conversation if you didn't go.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I just never really... Never really got me in the way like some sports movies, action movies. I just never really dove in.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I blew it. I was talking to my buddy, Jim Grady, one of my best high school friends. And he had two cassettes. that we're on all the time. We watch Rocky III all the time. And then he would always have Star Wars on. And I would always be, if he was watching that, I would always want to do something else. And he was like, how dare you do rewatchable stuff?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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All right, guys. First installment of the greatest trilogy ever. Peak of the 70s blockbuster era. Godfather, Exorcist, Jaws, Rocky, Star Wars. Return of popular cinema. The highest stakes ever in an actual movie because the entire galaxy is at stake, man. Yes. What jumps out first for you? Star Wars, 1977. I'm not doing this chapter for New Hope. Fuck that. This movie's called Star Wars.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I just never got... I never really liked Star Trek either. I watched all the Star Treks, but I never really... Sci-fi just doesn't grab you.

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But when I watched it these two times, I was a little more intrigued because I just like how there's big themes and it steals from the past with all these other things. Like, this is basically a Western. It's an adventure movie.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It goes back. His family's been wiped out. It steals from 90 different things. It steals from Dune to the point that

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They also, there's some cheat stuff that they do that's really smart. Like even the ways that they name some of the characters. It's like... Han Solo.

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This guy might walk in the sky someday. And just every, like there's- Darth Vader. Rito. It's like, oh, I wonder what this guy's about. You go through. And it's stuff that if you're five years old or seven years old, you can kind of, you're just instinctively understanding everything.

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It is George Lucas. It's almost like Stephen King if he had become a director.

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People like... Yeah, Jomie likes Sith. He was excited about it.

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I'm old enough to remember how absolutely polarizing and upsetting those movies were to people.

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Well, this is... Sean mentioned this when we were texting about it. It's such a shame that... the original thing doesn't exist. I would just be fascinated to see like what the special effects were. Cause obviously there's stuff in the version I watched it. I watched it on a Disney plus, but at that I also got the Blu-ray cause I want to see that.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And there's obviously stuff they've added in the last 10, 12 years. Whereas like you watch Rocky, And that's the movie. It's like, there's empty seats when those guys are fighting. You just see empty seats everywhere. And there's, you know, really bad eye makeup. And it's like part of the charm. They made it in 1976. I don't love that they redid it.

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Although I shouldn't say much because Ciara and I have done heat four times.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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That's kind of a miss by Lucas, who clearly has wanted to profit out of this in every way.

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It's like a piece of art that you shouldn't touch. Fincher does this too, right?

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This movie hits good versus evil. The galaxy, what the fuck is even up there, right? What do you believe in? Do you believe... I mean, the Force is obviously the key to the whole universe. And what do you actually believe as a human being? Do you believe we're just randomly here? Yeah. Or is there some greater purpose for all of us?

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Are you a good teammate? Are you a mercenary? Are you a good teammate? How far will you go to dominate somebody else? How far will you go to the dark side to get more power? Which is certainly a theme that might be more and more relevant every couple of years.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Including this one. Destiny, Fathers and Sons. Getting old. Getting older? Like LeBron in this Lakers series, where it's like, hey, Obi-Wan, we need 15 rebounds and 40 points. You think Anthony Edwards is going to be stepping on the cloak pretty soon? I think Anthony Edwards is going... You've got an old, old man.

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Really good. But I'm not against it. My only regret is you didn't do that on first take with Molly and Ryan Clark. Ryan Clark in a split screen.

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Well, we had less to do. So like for me, it was baseball and football and basketball cards and hockey cards. Yeah. Right. For other people that are playing. What's funny, I forgot doing the research is how late the merch was. that they made the movie and they weren't even sure. And then it became this race. You could buy boxes that were empty.

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They were almost like IOU for Luke Skywalker dolls because they hadn't had them made yet. It's fucking crazy. They had no idea the movie was going to become what it did.

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Yeah, the kid who had the toy saber was the most popular dude in the neighborhood. Well, this episode is brought to you by State Farm. Life is all about choices. There's a lot of choices in Star Wars and the next three movies that the characters make. Luke makes some good choices. He trusts the Force. At State Farm, their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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That's why with the State Farm Personal Price Plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create a competitive price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the Personal Price Plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Availability, amount of discounts and savings, and eligibility vary by state. I had some stuff I wanted to get to, but I had to ask Producer Craig. What's your... You're younger than us. What's your lifespan with this movie?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, because you're in it. It's like they've already made the prequels and shit's going down. So how do you walk into the Star Wars universe?

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15, yeah. It's had two revivals because the 97 was the first revival. When they re-released it and it like crushed. People were like, what's going on?

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We got to get movie nerdy for a second because there's this whole... I mean, there's so many things to get in with this movie, but there's the whole impact that this movie had on movies for the next 48 years because it became massively successful.

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It's right at the tail end of all of this great creative explosion, all these directors doing amazing things, and then this movie makes a kajillion dollars and... there's so much resentment about it that it became a big thing for Lucas. And Lucas has all that stuff he's talked about, about like, look, people get mad about Star Wars ruined movies.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And meanwhile, we built multiplexes all over the country and the world because of... the money people made from this movie. And there's a lot of, and the Biskin book is the best one for this, where just a lot of directors just taking like shots at Lucas. Like he ruined it. We were doing great until that movie.

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And it's edging out other movies because there's, what, three, four movies max in every theater?

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It feels like the mid-2010s and then this whole Disney and or Mandalorian universe was like the fourth revival. Yeah.

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Regenerating new classes of young people Every five years, basically, who then dive into this movie. That did not exist. There's two other things, though. And I think it had something to do with the backlash. You just have this once-in-a-lifetime, almost like in an NBA draft class, where there's just like seven superstars in the same draft. You have all these guys that grew up together.

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There's been a million books about it. But you have Scorsese and De Palma and Paul Schrader and Friedkin, all these dudes. Coppola, yeah. Coppola. And Coppola hits it the biggest to begin with, and then it basically murders him. Spielberg becomes the most commercial and the smartest. He's always the smartest, as we'll get to in a couple of these things.

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And then Lucas is the one that figures out how to put it all together. And all these other people just start having bombs and failures. So it's kind of like, well, we're failing because... Everyone wants Star Wars. And it's like, no, maybe you're failing because you made a shitty movie that nobody wanted to go see. Or maybe the other reason for all this, the fucking cocaine era is coming in.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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And cocaine is ruining a bunch of these directors and storytellers. And Lucas and Spielberg were the ones that survived. Scorsese came back. Some of these guys ended up making good movies again. But for the most part, these guys were just built for it.

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Well, plus these guys, part of their thing, they were acting, how can I get away with spending as much money as possible and these stupid studios will let me do it? And then after a while, the gig's up and you guys start making some money for some of these people.

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One from the heart, which Coppola, he bankrolled himself. And it ended up, he thought it was going to be like, I don't know, like what? Eight, 10 million. And it ended up being like almost 30. Oh yeah.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It's the dark side of bet on yourself. It is the all time. Maybe I shouldn't have bet on myself.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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That led to a great bet on yourself moment, Ben. Because they gave him $150,000 to write what would become Star Wars and then American Graffiti hits. And they're like, hey, you're a hot director now. Here's more money. We're going to give you $500,000. And he says... Now, I'll keep the 150, but give me all the merchandising and any sequels.

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And they're like, that sounds great, because nobody did sequels.

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Well, it's like Mark Cuban, right? Buying the Mavericks, super smart. Selling broadcast.com, buying the Mavericks with it, super smart. And then selling probably low to the Vegas family. It's like, you're still going to run the team. He's like, great. And then they cut him out. You're talking about when he sells to Disney, that's what this is?

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No, it's just you can look like a genius with one decision. And then the next decision, you're like, what the fuck was that guy thinking? How did he not know? Can I read you some sour grapes quotes? Oh, is this from, uh, Pauline? It's a bunch of things. Siskel in 77 does the show with Ebert before it was called Siskel and Ebert. And, uh, Or at the movies. At the movies, yeah.

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Yeah, it was called, what was it called? Sneak Previews or whatever? I think that was the first one, yeah. And he kind of scolded the movie and hoped that Hollywood would continue to cater to audiences who care about serious pictures.

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Then you have Scorsese. These are quotes from the Biskin book.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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um where he basically says the success of star wars coupled with the failure of new york new york which was the scorsese movie couple of my raging cocaine habit right meant that the kind of movies scorsese made were being replaced by the kind of movies lucas and spielberg made scorsese said star wars was in spielberg was in we were finished well in the long run turned out to be horseshit right i listen he went on to become an incredibly prolific director that made movies that stand the test of time

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Yeah, the 80s were tough. And there might have been a couple lines. Hmm.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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He... He was equals with Lucas and Spielberg. I think a lot of these guys felt like they were all equals. And then within four years, they were, you know, half of Hollywood. They're doing Raiders of the Lost Ark together and then Spielberg's doing E.T. They're just fucking annihilating everybody.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Is there another Hall of Fame for Vance? It's a final level? What do you mean? For your Hall of Fames, the White Girl Hall of Fame. White Girl, I know, but like she's- Is there a last level of the Hall of Fame? Nah, the Hall of Fame is like, you know. Pantheon?

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John Milius said, Lucas and Spielberg showed there was twice as much money out there and the studios couldn't resist that. No one had any idea you could get as rich as this. Like ancient Rome, you can clearly blame them. And then Friedkin said, what happened with Star Wars was like when McDonald's got a foothold. The taste for good food just disappeared. Now we're in a period of de-evolution.

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Everything has gone backwards toward a big sucking hole. Shit! So then Lucas, his comeback was Star Wars didn't kill the film industry, infantilize it. Popcorn pictures have always ruled. Why is the public so stupid? That's not my fault. I just understood what people like to go see, and Steven has too, and we go for that.

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But that's the Lucas case because he's saying the theater owners had more money. They had more screens. So now people wanted to make more money to put in the screens. And now that leads to the rise of more indie movies, art house movies. And he's like, Star Wars had this you know, shelf life that basically created where the 90s got to.

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And now the stuff, the books and magazine pieces in the 90s where they're all like, the movie industry's falling apart. There are no good ideas left. And we like revere all those movies from 95 to 99.

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Think about that. This is why I think the sour grape stuff is bullshit. You go back to the 70s. They were trying to make movies like Star Wars all the time. Poseidon Adventure. I was just going to say Towering Inferno. Towering Inferno, that's another one. But in 76, I remember, I'm old enough to remember when they did this and made a big deal, but the King Kong movie-

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It was basically a Star Wars a year before where it's like, here's a huge movie. Here's Jessica Lange and Jeff Bridges. And we're going to blow this up. And that's a popcorn movie from 1933. We're going to make this a giant deal. And I feel like if you're going to blame a movie, I would blame Jaws before Star Wars because I think Jaws fucked everybody up.

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Let's go. The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where you can find The Watch with CR. That's right. Big Picture with Sean Fennessey. Higher Learning. Yes. Midnight Boys. Pew pew.

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There's the other thing. I don't think Hollywood really mastered the kids thing. Because, like, when I was a kid... The syndicated shows that we all watched were like Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, The Batman. I used to love The Batman show. Those were shows that didn't really do that well on TV. Right.

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And then they would have the second shelf life on syndicated and they kind of became a thing that way.

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Yeah, Hollywood didn't understand. I don't really feel like Hollywood understood kids were such big business for them until 77.

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This great game that we began. I was trying to think of a nostalgia as a business for Hollywood. I think it's 89. It's right around there when they had the third indie movie. They do Batman. Yeah. And they're starting to figure out. And then when we go into the 90s, Disney really starts to figure out the machine of movies and the videocassettes. And it's like, we have the Lion King.

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The Lion King is going to come out. Elton John is going to sing the song. And it became almost like a blueprint. for how to hit kids, how to make parents. And Sean knows as somebody with a little kid right now, there's a five-year window where it's like, I just want to take my kid to a movie theater for two hours. Yep. And feed them popcorn and hope they don't have a meltdown.

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But 3PO... The guy was asking for it. Don't talk back to Vader.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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We had to talk legacy and influence. I would say this was the first movie to become a worldwide pop culture phenomenon.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Two immediate sequels plus all the movies they made. Novels, comics, video games, amusement parks, merch, everything. Multiple TV series in the last 10 years. It's moved with the culture wherever it is. It's like, we're doing streaming now. Okay, here's some streaming. Lucas became, if not the most successful film producer ever. He's in the top four. Harrison Ford comes out of this movie.

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But then we talk about influence. I think this movie has to, we have to give it credit for the repeatable blockbuster. You can't say Godfather even though there were two Godfathers.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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You didn't have to see the last one to know. You could watch Russia with Love without having seen it. Lucasfilm, all the stuff he created in the 70s, which was cutting edge. Well, Industrial Lights and Magic.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I think we should do that in half-assed. Great bet on yourself story we covered. May the force be with you. Just as a concept, which we talked about. The evil empire. This became the Yankees for us in Boston almost immediately. But the whole concept of an evil side. There was no reference.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Oh, yeah. It wasn't integration? I knew I was going to walk into that. For some of us, it was Jim Crow. Trying to have a nice moment. The Squirrel, The Dark Side of the Force, Harrison Ford, all the directors that this movie influenced, J.J. Abrams, Cameron, Fincher, Peter Jackson, Chris Nolan, Ridley Scott, John Lasseter. who's not a director, but a creator. Michael Bay. Michael Bay, our guy.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Is this the number one this movie influenced the most things of all the movies we've ever talked about?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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With no sense whatsoever that it's slowing down. I think that's the crazy part.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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It would be funny if White Lotus... adopted the Star Wars strategy and like, we're doing an Armand prequel. She's like, ripping through, we're going to follow, what was the family that lost, that dad lost the money? The Ratliffs? Ratliffs. It's a Ratliffs. It's a Duke UNC. For four seasons. Let's take one more break and there's more George Lucas stuff. Just a quick backstory.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Lucas wants to do a Flash Gordon type thing. He starts working on a treatment in 73, called it The Star Wars. He wanted romance and adventure and fun and space and started showing it to people and nobody was supportive. And they were like, why the fuck are you doing this? Why don't you make some real movies? And people are just shitting on him. And then 20th Century Fox finally liked it.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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They wanted to be in business with Lucas. Gave him 150 grand. American Graffiti crushes. They're like, here's 500. He does the sequels merch thing. He bets on himself and wins to the point that no studio ever does this again to this degree where they're just like, yeah, take it. It never happens again. It's a one and only. This was the only time. The only one.

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I mean, there's been some close ones, even Kugler recently with Sinners, where you can get it back in 25 years. Nobody was ever like, yeah, it sounds great. Take it.

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Immediately and in perpetuity. So, he said the screenplay was... Almost 300 pages long. Ended up, I don't know if you want to go into how we took Revenge of the Jedi and ended up moving stuff around and saving stuff for later. Yeah. They filmed it in Tunisia in England. He did ILM. This is where you could talk about ILM if you want.

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He created basically a company to do all the special effects that he also owned.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Do we have special effects? Maybe we just never have them.

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And then Floyd Gondola comes in. He's like, guys, I don't see it. That's right. I think the future's video. I think that's like the ones right here.

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But that's why the movie hit like it did because people were just like, I can't believe they did all this shit.

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Buck Rogers and Battlestar Galacta, all those shows are happening and Star Wars just seemed like it was crushing it.

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So it came out, I think I was at the end of maybe second grade. I was still in school. And people were going to see it. I didn't see it right away. People in my class, some of them, and I was in Massachusetts, and people were going like four or five times in two weeks. And it was the first time they were like, wait, this kid David, like this kid David. You think you're better than me, David?

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Well, Fox wasn't impressed. They gave the movie very little marketing support. Did some licensed t-shirts and a couple posters, which are now worth like insane amounts of money. Like insane. Like millions? Can you go on eBay? No, they're like $80,000, $90,000.

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Yeah, possible. The lunchboxes. Anything like those toys. If you have the IOU box that you never actually cashed in or whatever that thing was, everything is worth it. Anyway, Lucas wanted it on Memorial Day weekend. And everybody was like, that's bullshit. It's a summer movie. We don't do Memorial Day weekend. We don't do stuff in May. And Lucas was like, no, no, it'll be word of mouth for kids.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Again, George Lucas. So they do May 25th. They pair it with a movie called The Other Side of Midnight starring Susan Sarandon based on a Sidney Sheldon novel. Sean, I don't know if you've letterboxed that one. Haven't seen it. Okay. I do love Susan Sarandon.

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Pair it together. Yeah, it's a one for us. They pair it together and that movie gets dumped in a week and the rest is history. This is one of my favorite anecdotes. Lucas and Spielberg, who are buddies... And they're arguing about whose movie is going to do better, Close Encounters or Star Wars. And Lucas says, your movie is definitely going to do better.

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I'll give you 2.5% of the profit on my film. You give me. We'll trade. So we'll root for each other's film. And Spielberg accepted because he thought Lucas was going to have a bigger movie. And Spielberg ended up with 2.5% of Star Wars.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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I don't remember doing that. Lucas was so sure the movie was going to flop. that he went on vacation with a bunch of people, including Spielberg, and the movie's taking off, and they're in Hawaii, and they come up with Raiders of the Lost Ark on the vacation. So he's just winning. I don't think anyone's ever winning more over the span of a month than George Lucas.

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No, no memory whatsoever. I don't remember until after it came out and the kids in class were starting to talk about it. Their lives had changed because of it. Yeah, like we're going Saturday and then we're going Sunday.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Harrison Ford. Borderline hottest take. Is this his greatest role? I mean, he was Indiana Jones.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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Don't step on Thunderbolts, man. I love Han Solo. I think he's Han Solo. It's such a great character.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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You saw Star Wars four times? He saw it six times in two weeks. And it was like, what?

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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enduring role it is but for some reason when I think of that character when I think of him as a guy I think Han Solo Han Solo 1 Indy 2 regarding Henry 3 where he had to get shot in the head to learn how to be a good guy we'll be doing that on the rewatchables at some point I love that movie you know what that movie is by the way the first screenplay ever authored by J.J.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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He went to the same movie six, like we were just like dumbfounded. And there was like the sports kids. And then there were like the Star Wars kids. And there were these certain kids that they just. Oh, shit. And there was something that overlapped. There'll be other many more times in this episode.

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He's a little edgier. He's like a little closer to training.

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Because it's a charisma role. It's a charisma. I'll steal your girl. I'll steal your money.

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Well, Mallory would be furious right now because she thinks Harrison Ford walks on water and it's the most handsome man who ever lived. But in witness though. So that's a couple of years. He got better as he got older. Music by John Williams. You guys might've heard of him. He blacked out here.

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I'm Bill Simmons. We're about to do Star Wars. It's a major movie, and you guys are really, really excited. Let's get it going.

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But there were these kids that really all of a sudden it became part of their personality, like this movie. Yeah. When we came back for. I guess the net third grade, whatever it was. And then at that point, some of the merch was out and I think that they were just into it. And it was like this whole world. I never remember seeing that before.

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Well, we've talked about whether he was the Joe Mantegna in Searching for Bobby Fischer. He's better at this than anything you've ever been at. Like, is he the number one? He's better at his job than anyone's ever been at a movie job.

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And he's in his 90s. He's just writing it now, typing, banging the keyboards on a piano that's just on a pile of cash. It's a piano. He's got a chair. It's all in $100 bills.

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What, music? No, I'm talking about associating somebody with one... You're talking about all these different things. What is John Williams' one identifiable thing? I'm saying, what are some other ones where it's instantaneously... Because for John Williams, I honestly think of Jaws before...

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It'd be funny if you asked John Williams, like, What, what do you think? Yeah. Secretariat. One other thing I want to talk about before we get to the Oscars and all that stuff. We talked about Lucas's imagination with things. And you really, I think one of the reasons this movie was so cool. The first time you saw it in the theater was because there's just all these different creatures.

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Like in the seventies, we had the Muppet show. and there were the two guys in the balcony, and then there were different things, and we knew all those people, and we had Sesame Street. And Lucas basically quintuples down on all these things.

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It's like, okay, we have... evil sand people. But then when we get to the bar, every single person in the bar looks different than the next person. There's that one guy that comes in and it seems like he's got balls on his chin. Then there's another guy with a big pig on his nose. You're just going around. It's like, where the fuck are we?

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He won five Oscars and got nominated for best film, but did not win.

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I've never seen that. What's that? I think the Annie Hall thing, I've always thought it was nuts, even before the stuff that happened with Woody, because then Titanic, 20 years later, basically, everyone's like, yeah, Titanic, that should win. But how does Star Wars not win?

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A lot of conflicting reports on how pumped he was about this movie.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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to kind of keep him happy pretty pretty it must must be nice for the guinness estate to have a couple of points on star wars it ended up being you know this guy wanted oscar and was one of the more famous actors of the 20th century and this ended up becoming the thing that that uh outlived him yeah and i mean he's in virgin river quay and lawrence of arabia you know what i mean like he's in some of the biggest movies yeah people like hey obi-wan yeah there you are greatest jedi of all time wearing a rug

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I was like, as you know, I spot the toupees out of nowhere.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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No free ads. Five Oscars. Score, sound, visual effects, special achievement, scientific and engineering, which I don't even... Is that even an Oscar anymore? No.

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‘Star Wars: A New Hope’ (Part One) With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Van Lathan

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11 million dollar budget. Ultimately made, who knows, $775 million.

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It initially grossed $410 million worldwide and surpassed Jaws to become the highest grossing movie ever. And then E.T. came out. It was reissued so many times that they had to start changing titles and doing special editions and all that stuff. If you do the inflation adjusted list, which I know Sean is very passionate about, Gone with the Wind still number one and Star Wars second.

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Are you nervous? No, not really. Four stars. Yeah. Every once in a while, I have what I think of as an out-of-the-body experience at a movie. I simply mean that my imagination is forgotten and is actually present in a movie theater and thinks it's up there on the screen in a curious sense that the events in the movie seem real and I seem to be a part of them.

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And then he just raves and raves and raves about how fucking cool Star Wars is. Me too. Raj. Raj. I knew he'd come through. Me too. Um... I feel like we should take this to a part two.

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Is this the longest intro of any Real Watchables? No, I think Boogie Nights was seven hours. We're going to take this to a part two. Thanks to Craig Horlbeck and Jack Sanders. We will see you for part two.

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The Halloween was a few years later, and everybody was dressed as, like, Luke or Princess Leia.

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I don't know. We probably tried to bully him at some point. That's cool. Where's David now? David, come on out! But it just, it wasn't for me until Empire came out. I saw it in the theater. It was cool. We didn't really have cable in the same way back then. I remember there was that famous holiday special they did a year. I didn't see that either.

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But when Empire came out, that's when it was like... That makes sense, though. When Empire came out, I was like, holy shit. And now there's going to be a third one? We just weren't conditioned to think of trilogies like that.

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Well, that came out kind of around The Shining. 80 was a really good movie here. But look, watching this twice in four days, the first time I watched, I hadn't seen it in a long time. And I was like, ah, it's dated, but nah, this is fun. This is nostalgic. And then I watched it the second time and I was like, this movie is kind of awesome.

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I think I've seen pieces of it for 50 years, but just watching it start to finish. Because when you start it, especially when we had kids, I was like, oh, I wonder if my kids will like it. And C-3PO and R2-D2 go in the desert, and the movie just dies for like four minutes. And if your kids can get over that hump, you just basically have to get your kids to the Star Wars bar scene.

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Once you're there, you're going from that point. But it does get a little slow there.

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I was in tears. That's how I felt the second time. I was like, this is just amazing. Everything pulled up. Every time Darth Vader comes in, it's the best entrance. He's the most captivating villain that's ever been in a movie. And he's in the movie for 12 minutes. There's never been a better villain, right?

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Well, when Obi-Wan tells the story about what happened to Luke's dad, but you know... I mean, we're going to talk about a bunch of shit during this pod, but keeping that secret, not knowing that secret in 1977 at all and watching the movie one way, but now knowing the secret when you watch it, it's a completely different movie.

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Well, that's the other thing when you're watching this, it's, Harrison Ford, one of the great actors from a popcorn standpoint in the last 50 years, and he's just this young version of him. It's like watching young, somebody in college, like some NBA player we would love to love, and they're just dunking on everybody.

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You feel like he can sleep with Princess Leia if you give him like three minutes. Oh, he feels like it.

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Do you think Luke doesn't have shape because of the actor or the way the character is written?

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But if that's 18-year-old Chalamet, as Luke in 1977, is Luke a better- We're already getting started on Mark Hamill.

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What's up, Rewatchables fans? As you know, we've done live shows in New York, in Philly, DC, in Chicago, LA many times. We've never done Boston. I've been saving it for the right moment. The right moment is here. It's going to be Thursday, March 27th. It's going to be the House of Blues, which is right by Fenway Park. And it's going to be

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Yeah. And then, Adrian's basically Raymond Babbitt for the first 40 minutes of this movie.

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She's playing with the Cincinnati Reds baseball cards.

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The promoter is great too. Like every Juergens moment is great, but there's that scene when they're just beating the shit out of each other in the end and it just cuts to him. He's just sitting there with his fucking cigar, just like, yeah.

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He definitely lost the first two rounds. Yeah.

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That was one of the big scenes when the meat locker, the meat, whatever, that scene when Duke's watching it. It's like, yo, man, this guy means business. And Apollo's like, yeah, yeah, I mean business too. And he's just like reading the Wall Street Journal. Right.

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It's six years after they wouldn't let Ali fight. And this is clearly an Ali-based character. And the reason Stallone came up with the idea for the movie is he's watching Webner-Ali in 75, which was the real-life version of this. Webner ends up suing him. Yeah. Undisclosed settlement.

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But that's part of the lore of the movies. Stallone watched that fight. Wepner was like this, you know, there's been documentaries, movies about him. His banged up face. He's getting killed by Ali, but lasts 15 rounds. Stallone, so inspired, pumps out the movie in three and a half days.

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But those guys had been in movies. Avfuck and Damon, they hadn't had their A-list break, but they had been in stuff. Avfuck was in Chasing Amy the year before. Damon was in a bunch of stuff. I think he had gotten the Rainmaker by then. He was in School Ties.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Stallone was in Paradise Alley. That was it.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, that's great. Well, I'm Bill, and we're about to do Rocky, one of the most important movies the last 50 years. Let's go.

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And then it's this two-year dance or one-year dance, however long it was, of people wanting to buy the script but put a famous actor in there. Right for con or whatever. I got to say, it's an amazing, in the bet on your, if there was the bet on yourself book, Stallone betting on himself is a chapter. Yeah. I'll take way less money. I have to star in it. I want to be the writer and star.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I think he's too charismatic.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, he didn't write First Blood. Rocky, the moment this comes out, it's like, all right, let's make Rocky II. Come on, guys. What are we waiting for? And then that comes out. And then he's trying. He's in Nighthawks. He's in Victory. But then he has that second run with Rocky III and First Blood same year. And then that's it. He has one of the best, probably six-year A-list movie star runs ever.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All seemed inconceivable if you watch Rocky I. He's got to lose weight. He's got to look more leading man. It was tough to separate Rocky from Stallone. You know, like he's in Nighthawks. He grew a beard. Yeah. And he's like, all right, I'm street cop Stallone. But as, and then he's in victory, he loses a ton of weight and he's the goal. And it's like, all right, it's still Rocky.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And it really took him until I would say 82, 83 to be Stallone.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. By the way, this is our 11th Stallone rewatchable, so he's moved into the top five.

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He's tied. I mean, we've done a bunch of them.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, I'm waiting for the results. Cruz, 15. De Niro, Pacino, 13. Denzel and Stallone, 11. That's our top five. Awesome top five.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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There's a couple good ones left.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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We haven't done Lock Up. We haven't done Daylight. Oh, Lock Up. You a Daylight fan?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Stallone has to save you did Cliffhanger right we did Cliffhanger I was ready to do it again though but see the Stallones I mean Rambo 2 we haven't done so you're never gonna do Cobra right Murdoch did Cobra already did Cobra oh fuck yeah love Cobra have you done Tango and Cash yes oh shit well you got Tango and Cash is one of my favorite movies well we can retango retango yeah we'll retango it one of my favorite movies let's uh we'll take a break come back a little more and talk about this movie

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Just quickly on the ultimate sports movie recipe, surprise out of nowhere star, killer supporting parts. So we mentioned Apollo Creed, but you also have Mickey. You have Pauly, the least likable character, probably the 1970s, other than maybe Travis Bickle. And then Adrian. And then you have Gotso, the loan shark guy.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And you have Gotso's driver, the funniest character probably of the 1970s. And then you have Juergens.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And Duke, who's not named in Rocky I and eventually becomes Duke. Apollo was like a son to me.

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So we got the killer supporting parts with perfect underdog story. Great music. Great all-time sports movie music. Multiple chill scenes. I always call them chill scenes when you're watching like the gonna fly now and he starts racing the boat and you're like, ah. And then the great ending. This is the recipe. This is the recipe that was then copied for 48 years.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Those were the two movies that year that flipped. Oh, you think they're going to win at the end? Watch this. And then they don't win.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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everyone like by the time you get to like Cinderella man you realize that he's not just fighting for him he's fighting for his body he's fighting for like everyone kind of gets pulled out of their thing by what this guy does well some other stuff other piece of this big picture the we mentioned the Stallone breakout movie Adrian is not a wet blanket in this movie but we get to Rocky IV and it's full bloom like doesn't even go to Russia with him

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I think for the most part, a really great sports movie girlfriend in this one. Like, just additive, supportive, wants them to win, loves them so much she can't go out there to watch the fight, doesn't want to see them get, but then can't resist, has to come out.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Gigantic. We're right across this scummy gym in a porn theater.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I'm going to start here. Rocky is now a prequel for Rocky III. Prove me wrong.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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He's coming into the gym smoking a lung dart. Hey, where's my locker?

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I got heart, but I ain't got no locker, do I, Nick?

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So this movie won three Oscars, Best Picture, Director, and Editing, 10 nominations, first sports film ever to win Best Picture. This was kind of an amazing Oscars year. Let's talk about it. It beats All the President's Men, Network, Taxi Driver, and Bound for Glory. Jesus Christ. John Avildsen wins for Best Director.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah. And it's one of the most important... I think movies of the last 50 years, I'm going to make a case, and it's prototyped for sports movies. And yet now, all these years later, I'm like, oh, I like how they're setting this up for the pinball machine in Rocky III.

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He beats Alan J. Kulud for All the President's Men, Ingmar Bergman, Sidney Lumet for Network, and whoever did Seven Beauties. And then Stallone loses.

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to Peter Finch in Network De Niro loses as Travis Bickle and William Holden I would make the argument that I think Holden's better in Network than Peter Finch but aside from that like that's probably a De Niro year if we're redoing that one and then Talia Shire not nominated But we do have Burgess Meredith and Burt Young, both nominated, but Jason Robards wins for All the President's Men.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All right, you're re-litigating this. Who wins in 76?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I would go all the, well, network's really great though. I would go all the presidents been from movie and I would go Scorsese for best director. But the important part here is it's not Rocky. It's not Rocky, but I think that speaks to how unique the movie was. And part of what made people respond to it was they just never seen anything like this. And it really affected them.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's like Crash. Yeah. Jesus. $1.1 million budget made $225 million, spawned five sequels and three Creed movies. So eight sequels overall. I wonder how that money got chopped up. 1.1 made $2.25, but it's got to be so much more than $2.25 when you factor in the sequels. This has to be a multi-billion dollar franchise, right? Like $4 billion, $3 billion?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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You could say Rocky, Jaws, Saturday Night Fever, and The Godfathers just created this new form of pop culture, at least a piece of it.

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Yeah, this is like a Hindi movie. Roger Ebert, our guy. Four stars last week for Crash.

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I know my kids didn't. My kids wanted to watch Rocky III and Rocky IV. This was too slow, first 45. Most rewatchable scene. I gotta give... I gotta start. I have a bunch. I have probably too many, but I love the beginning with the Spider Rico fight. Pre-credits. The headbutt gets me. I like the smoke after the fight when Spider Rico's just lying on the bed. You got Loki. Um...

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The Dream Team, me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Ryan Rosillo. That's right. We're all coming back. We're not doing The Town. We're not touching The Town. That one episode lives on forever on YouTube, Spotify. We're not redoing it, but we'll probably do a Boston movie. All information will be on TheRinger.com slash events very soon.

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And it goes right into, I like when they get paid. Spider gets $70.20. Rocky gets $40.55. I love that they're taking taxes out on these guys. I'm sure that's going to the government. And then he walks out and we go in to take it back with our diverse doo-wop group. Yeah. And then we're into the opening credits.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I'm combining three small scenes together because they're all in a row. Apollo breaking out his bicentennial plan. Apollo, I like it. It's very American. No, Jurgens, it's very smart. Right into Gotso's driver. Hey, Rock, I heard she's retarded.

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The zoo is very nice. The driver is like the worst human being ever. Probably ever.

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This guy just, why does he hate Rocky so much?

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Well, then we get right from there back to the office with Apollo going, this is what I'm looking for. The Italian stallion. He's a softball. I'm like, you're messing around with softballs. I like that whole section. Um, Juergen's making Rocky the offer.

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Right into the press conference. I fight in clubs. I'm really a ham and egger.

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He thinks he'd be a sparring partner.

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We don't know he's going to end the Cold War.

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Rocky, do you believe America is the land of opportunity? I said this to CR in 2011. I did. I was trying to get him to come to Greenland. It's like, CR, do you believe? I also love, I just want to say hi to my girlfriend, Yo Adrian. And then this is when the, you know, I didn't say this stuff on TV. It didn't bother me none. It did. Mickey trying to convince Rocky to hire him, we mentioned.

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follow that the monologue improvised I love the door opening and closing because he thinks Mickey left but he didn't then he slams the door again then he opens he just starts screaming incoherently which is some of my favorites Stallone yeah you talking about pride what about my pride what about my pride And then I like the wordless reconciliation from far away. Just some good filmmaking. Yeah.

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Possible great shot Gordo. What'd you have for great shot Gordo?

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Rocky's TV interview in the meat freezer. What? Which also gets the Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink. Mate, you could even argue it might have to replace the Big Kahuna Burger. I'll be honest with you. There's another candidate, though. What do you got? The turkey. Oh, that's a great one.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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The turkey. Turkey's a tough one. Because Pauly keeps like the one gross thing.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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And it's like the third worst thing he did in the movie. I like when they're doing the TV interview and they're about to film it and the guy's like, hey, the meat guy's sticking his head in. Yeah. Doing that. Duke's watching. Yeah, I'm in business too.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, it's funny because from a rewatchable standpoint, and this movie's in the running for probably most rewatched movies on cable and just diving in halfway through it, but you never watch the first half hour of it when it's just establishing over and over again what a loser he is. It's usually not in the rewatch thing. You'll come in and be like, oh shit, he's taking the Apollo fight.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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What do you think this would, if they had social media in 1976, how many views is this getting? Apollo's opponent punching meat in a meat locker. I feel like this is like 10 million views, right? I tell you what, man. Did you see this guy who's fighting Apollo?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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All of a sudden, this goes into the gonna fly now training sequence, which I forgot. We're like, oh! We're doing this! One-handed push-ups. Races the huge boat, second chance at the stairs, which we set up earlier with that 5 a.m. brutal training session. With the eggs, yeah. Honestly, I think this is one of the best sports movie scenes of all time. Of course it is. It has to be.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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If you're just arguing about them, this has to be one of the first ones. The great works... Unless you want to go Rocky II on me with all the kids.

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They got my trunks wrong, that scene, when he goes into the spectrum.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Doesn't matter, does it? I'm sure you're going to give us a great show. And then he knows, like, oh, God, I'm going to fucking get smoked. Goes back, talks to Adrian.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I love all that stuff. You got me, Rock. You had me a half hour ago. I didn't need this speech. You got me. I'm splitting the fight up into three scenes. The entire fight entrance... Pauly got three grand. I got the robe. Shrewd. The Uncle Sam entrance from Apollo, which is great. Him talking shit to Sly. Sly's like so stupid in the pre-fight, but it's great. Is he talking to me?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Yeah, he's talking to you. And then the Joe Frazier cameo is amazing.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Ducking me a long time. And then I love the nicknames. The Master of Disaster. Is that one of the best nicknames ever?

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First two rounds of the fight. The first round knockdown is one of the most exciting sports movie moments ever. Oh my God. I love the bar shot.

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And there's just some gut-wrenching scenes in that first 30 minutes, which is why it ended up winning Best Picture.

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No, I think it's just slapping. Breaks his nose. Duke does though. He doesn't know it's a damn show. He thinks it's a damn fight. Yeah. And then the end of round two is great. Yeah. Cause it's like, oh, Rocky's not going away. Here we go. We do the montage. 14th round. Next scene. I think this is my most rewatchable.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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No, I love the down, down, stay down. And he's just like, and Adrian comes out. And then Apollo with the shoulder slump is my favorite. Yeah. Where he's just like, man, are you fucking kidding me? This guy's got up again? You like that. And then he comes back with a,

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Mickey tells that guy, he goes to the body like nothing we've ever seen. Cut Me Mick is great, too. And then the ending. Cut Me Mick is so gross.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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cut me cut me make boom I didn't even know that was a thing it's so great that they bring the cut guy in at like the 8th inning hold on I got my razor blade here let me get that and then the ending it seems like he's gonna get him ain't gonna be no rematch don't want one where's your hat still champion Apollo um I don't know, best sports movie ending ever. It's in the running.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I just wanted to do Rocky III first because I think it's one of the great movies of all time. When I say it's one of the most influential movies of the past 15 years, the case would be this. created the sports movie prototype, like just period, created the underdog, the modern version of that underdog.

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They weren't counting on Blu-ray in 2025.

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Yeah, he earned the champ's respect.

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Pauly finally does something nice. He lets the rope open for Adrian. He doesn't get- And throws a turkey at her. What he wants, but he leaves the fight.

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What's your most rewatchable scene, CR?

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She's telling him about fish food. Yeah.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Hey, this episode of The Rewatchables is presented by State Farm. There's a lot to say when buying a new home or car, but only one thing to say when you need help to protect them, like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. A State Farm agent can help you choose the coverage you need like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. What's the most 1976 thing about this movie? I think White Doo-Wop.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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White Doo-Wop. Well, Color Me Bad was like really the last moment. Yeah, but like... Some of them were black, though. I know, but they had a couple white guys there.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Well, that's what I had most 1976 thing. Good-natured winos and doo-hop singers versus just fentanyl addicts, which we would have now. Oh, my God. Now we would have people with no pants on just wandering in a circle.

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There's millions of movies from 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s that did this, but this nailed it to the point that you would just compare, it could be sports, it could be non-sports, if there was like that kind of Rocky type of character, be like, oh, this is like Rocky. And then just the beats of like, something leading to the big game, big event, whatever.

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Drunk street characters were always like these benevolent movie characters. Like he picks up that one guy and brings him in the bar and she's like, let me put you over on the seat. Right. Have a drink with Eddie. Those days are gone.

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What's aged the best? See, I mentioned the Steadicam. This is the third movie ever they used the Steadicam, but the most famous one. And, uh, Steadicam, I would say. It's not an MVP of the movie, but it's first came on.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Apparently, the run up the stairs was his idea because to show them how the Steadicam worked, he did a test run with his wife to show them what it would look like. And that led to how they did it. Yeah. Apparently, they offered him either money or points in the movie, and he took the money and has some regrets. Poor guy. Got to bet on yourself. It's tough.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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That's not going to be in the bet on yourself book.

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What's aged the best, the music and the soundtrack? It's still going. You hear that? I mean, how many years have they been playing that in sporting events? Start of every fourth quarter in America, it feels like. I have a bunch. What do you have? Anything good?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I'd sing with turtles. They don't die. If you get a pet turtle, that's not like, ah, 10 years from now.

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Which I guess you could say Longest Yard started it, but once Rocky did this.

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True greatness is an interesting.

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That's why we have sports documentaries.

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I get it, yeah, for sure. Well, it's interesting because one of the best sports books ever was The Game by Ken Dryden, which was about the Montreal Canadiens at the tail end of their dynasty trying to hold it together. It's fascinating. It's basically what The Last Dance is about, too. It's like, can we stay together one last time?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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So we've seen it work in documentaries and books, but I've never seen it in a movie.

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We're hypocrites. Morewood saves the best. Race and boxing. I didn't know when this was going to come up.

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Or the English guys fighting.

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No, like, this is just a weird era for sports movies, because it's the 1.0 era, but most of them are like, you know, it's like Hoosiers, it's Rocky, it's a lot of our white hero trying to beat whoever the black guy was in front of him, or the black team.

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And then it eventually shifts. But I, you know, I just think that in this case, it's clearly an Ali thing, and it feels like less of a black-white thing, but... After the fact, it feels black-white. I really think this is an Ali thing. It definitely is. Stallone is like, what if I fought Ali? And that's the premise of the movie.

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But I think the perception after the fact was that it was. This is why it became so popular. This is why they had to have a sequel so he would win.

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I think this movie is clean on the race front from Stallone's hands. Rocky III becomes a different story. Stallone might not be that clean.

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Is that the most boxing gym moment ever? The guy taunting Rock from the ring that he digs his locker just out of nowhere? Yeah. It's a pretty good one.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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Looking at my outline. Very determined fighters is all I'm saying. Well, that was like that card we were watching the other day. Who was the guy? Sergio Mora? Yeah. He's from Ghana. Those guys are warriors. See? We were texting about it.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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But it's boxing. And every time he said it, there was just dead silence from his partners. And then he would just double back on it. This is what I was telling you about Ghana.

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the 5am this is the first day I'm going to start my training and it just being the most miserable thing ever I think is perfect in this it's like I'm going to start here's my alarm I'm going to have some eggs do a little run maybe run the steps and it's just like by the end of it you're holding your side you're coughing up 5 cigarettes and it's just super depressing I loved how they did it and then brought it back I think it's really smart can we talk about Angry Mickey?

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So like what else was doing that before this? Probably nobody.

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who has quotes like, yeah, I said that before you dumb Dago. Then he goes, yeah, I know woman.

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Rock's like, I know woman. We can legs. And he goes, we'll let her train you. Yeah. You're going to eat lightning and you're going to crap thunder. I love his like, just Burgess. So I knew Burgess Meredith as the penguin in the Batman series because I used to love that series. Same thing.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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I love the Batman series and Burgess Meredith. And then we're like, the penguin's going to be mixed trainer? Anyway. Twilight Zone.

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Morewood stage is the best. The meat freezer is just an amazing... Whoever thought of that, give them a gold star. 1970s Philly is fun.

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Well, I don't think New York and Boston were doing any better.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

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It's like that little, they call, when you lose your locker, you go to Skid Row in the box of gym at the Duskin. Buckus. Stallone's real dog that Stallone sold for $50 because he was so broke when he was writing this movie. He sold him real life, then got it back after he sold the script. That's nice. And then brings Buckus in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3610.52

He gets a lot of breaks here, Stallone, getting his script back, getting his dog back. Giving Buckus the Brandy Booth Award, Best Performance by a Pet. Multiple great scenes by Buckus. Wood Sage the Best, the Rocky Marathons that eventually get on TV once we got to three or four. And they would just run them all in a row. Although I never understood why they would...

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3628.695

run off Rocky 1 start Rocky 2 at the end of Rocky 1 again just you know what I mean just do it go right into the start of Rocky 2 it's like they do it with the godfather they'll just break put the first two together yeah Another would stage the best. Any scenario where a boxer, UFC fighter, tennis player, or golfer is an out of nowhere story and you just think of Rocky immediately.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3655.31

Especially with the combat sports, you think of that. Last thing, Talia Shire as Adrian. Three best picture movies in five years. Godfather 1, Godfather 2, and Rocky. What a run. It's like a fucking Scottie Pippen kind of 90s bulls run by her. She's great in this. She's really good in this. Yeah. I want to like nitpick it, but I can't. I think she's good. And it's different than Connie Corleone.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3681.251

I feel like she's a different character, right? Connie probably has. Well, I mean.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

37.473

Once again, The Rewatchables Live, Boston, Thursday, March 27th, House of Blues, Ringer.com slash events. And we're going to have a couple more things we're doing that weekend too. So- I'm very excited. We have not come to Boston yet and we're going to do it right. Hope to see you there.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3706.963

I like at the end when she's under Godfather 1, when she's mad at Michael. Spitting on him? Yeah. She's like, I know you did him. And then Michael's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Carlos in Vegas.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3725.859

The only other Woodstage the best I had, other than Gazzo's driver and the steady cam, was... That's true. Cosmo's driver is just a comedic genius. He's just on the screen and you're like, oh my God, this guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3739.155

John Avison, the director, said the original ending, Apollo was carried out by the crowd and so was Rocky and he pulled Adrian up on his shoulders and they had the happiest night of their life and that was going to be it and they couldn't pull it off.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3751.517

So then they did this second ending when he walks down the aisle and sees Adrian because he lost and they hold hands and they walk into the back and it didn't work. And they decided to reshoot it with the Bill Connie music and came up with the third version of the ending. And Avildsen says now that that saved the movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3770.67

Like the movie, the ending would have sucked. It would have been a downer.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3817.892

It was one of my takeaways. I don't know if you guys noticed that. What are we going to talk about it? It's coming. Great check order award. We said the 5 a.m. training ending the first time with a wide shot of Philly. Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award, best needle drop. Could you change this to Gonna Fly Now?

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3888.775

The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name. Easy. Rocky and Apollo. It's got to be Apollo Creed.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3906.111

I gotta say, don't sleep on Spider Rico. I really did enjoy him as well. Alright, Van, you're up with the flex category. Did you have a flex category you picked?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3923.6

Dude, does this need to be a new award?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3928.164

Yeah, I had him coming up. I had him coming up in What Stage is the Worst.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3963.79

He is... I thought he had some decent moments in Rocky IV. Just not to defend Pauly, but... You know, it's just him and Duke and Russia. There's no other trainers.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

3973.398

No, just there was a couple. Rocky IV is probably the best version of Pauly. Rocky I Pauly is one of the worst human beings in a movie. He's a pimp?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4014.005

He said, you're busted to his sister. That's like the worst thing you could possibly say to your sister.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4056.676

He's an abomination. It really jumps out every time you watch it because in the 70s, it's like, ah, Pauly, that irascible.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

406.201

Like I don't deserve to be in the ring with that guy. He's that self-aware.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4079.253

Pauly Panino. Yeah, we need a Pauly Panino. Why is this character so awful? Something like that. What's with you? I had the, for the Butch's girlfriend award for weak link of the film, either Polly or the, just the Rocky Adrian courting scenes are so slow now in 2025. They're just, yeah. It's 25 minutes of content that now you're probably doing nine. Yeah. 25. I like the skating rink.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4103.607

I know you like the skating rink. At the same time, if there's a transcript of it, it would be the worst transcript ever.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4138.733

Well, she's discovered parts of herself that she didn't know existed. She's become a sexual human being. Right. My flex choice. The Steven Seagal, hard to kill a word for, did this movie need a better intimacy coordinator? Um, He kind of mauls her a little bit in the first kiss. There's no kind of. Yeah. And I'm just, I'm trying to be kind of rocky. It's a little bit of a mauling.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4184.048

I also just, another one I would add is the Sean Penn Award for excellence in smoking. I thought Stallone smoking was excellent.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4208.462

Wow. Wood Sage the worst. Everything about Pauly. Chuck Wepner.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4215.898

What mean thing didn't Pauly say to his sister?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4235.526

I was like, this is not... Chuck Wepner, that whole story is the worst. Yeah. You mentioned the fight crowd scene, CR. This is the biggest kind of nitpick all these years later where I just wish somebody had done a George Lucas and just paid the 50 grand to CGI some fans all over the place. For the re-release and stuff?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4255.904

Yeah, just if you're going to be like, hey, we got Rocky on Blu-ray, just spend the 50K.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4265.006

We want to be the sports movie consultants. James Cameron should be like, let me just help out a couple of these classics. I'll just put some fans in.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

428.27

And then the Rocky III version's coming. She's looking great.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4285.935

And then Garrett Brown, the Steadicam guy, not taking points in the picture is age-worse. What else do you have? Anything?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4306.484

You hang out with those guys, use a couple of bad words.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4315.246

Well, and then the weird part about it, this is another what saves the worst, is watching that girl in this movie. She then becomes the Rocky Balboa love interest. Remember? Yeah. Girl he starts dating. Yeah. That's the girl he starts dating in Rocky Balboa. Are you serious?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

433.174

Rocky III, Adrian, looks fantastic.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4333.353

That's like how they reconnect. I don't think I've seen Rocky Balboa or I can't remember it. Wait, wait, wait. Rocky Balboa was the one. That's the one with Antonio Tarver. With Antonio Tarver. It's not a very good movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4350.915

Yes. Take it back. Do, do, do, do. Any other what's aged worse? Yeah, just Pauly as the brother.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4365.024

Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting word. It's good acting, but it's got a good Adrian freaking out on Polly.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4376.195

Just like she goes up a level.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

440.039

Yeah. Guy, loser. got nothing going, gets his one chance, actually comes through, gets the girl, and then it's ripped off for the next 48, 49 years, which I think is unfairly held against this. The only other nitpick is just that there's some slow parts. I think this is one of the five movies I've seen the most. Just because it's been around for so long.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4407.311

All right. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How does it take a word? Did you have one, CR?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4458.258

Well, what's interesting about this, a great takes here. The original script, which was much darker, it had Rocky throwing the fight.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4466.486

And Mickey was a racist. Those were the two things that they softened.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4473.254

Yeah. He's just irascible. Do you have a hottest take, Vin?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4502.315

I have... I'm going old school with a super hot, hot take. Because I feel like we've gotten... We have rational hot takes now. I'm going hot. We got away from our principles. Yeah. If this movie didn't exist, Philadelphia would basically be Delaware with more attitude, a nicer art museum, and a couple of pro sports teams. That's fucked up, though. Yeah.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4528.811

They're probably about the same size.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4531.954

But you think that if Rocky didn't exist... I think Rocky really made Philadelphia. That's my hot take. Well, what made Boston? I don't know. When we fucking knocked out the British and created America. You fucking racist. No, it was an attempt to do a hottest take, but it is funny how much this movie means to Philadelphia.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4559.68

That it almost became like another sports team.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4567.683

It's not like we were like in the desert. You had the Flyers titles in the 70s.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4595.003

I'm into it. Yeah. Casting what ifs. United Artists wanted a well-established star. Redford, who I think gets just mentioned for every movie ever. Ryan O'Neill and Burt Reynolds actually make sense and James Caan makes sense. Like if I'm thinking about Hollywood back then. Ryan O'Neill is way too good looking. Too waspy.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4615.518

I'm not saying makes sense in the movie. I'm saying makes sense I could see the studios being like, here's the list of actors we want in this Rocky movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4638.733

Like if you have... I think James Caan has too much baggage at this point to be Rocky.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4644.257

Because we know him from Godfather and a bunch of big movies. I think Rocky being an unknown really helps. Yeah. I think it worked out great. Like, Burt Reynolds, same thing. He's been in too many things.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4658.454

I needed somebody that you're almost rooting for him in real life, too, as he's in the movie. This was interesting. Ken Norton was targeted for Apollo Creed, pulled out, and they gave it to Carl Weathers. Stallone wanted Harvey Keitel as Pauly. Probably a better movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4676.232

Cary Snodgrass, I don't even know who that is, was chosen to play Adrian, and they had a money dispute, and they auditioned a bunch of people, including Susan Sarandon and Cher. And Sarandon they really liked, but they thought she was just too pretty to be Adrian.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4693.297

This is my favorite, though. They wanted Lee Strasberg for Mickey, and he wanted too much money. Is this before 2? Godfather 2? Right after.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4706.505

No one knows who gave the order, but I heard it. I wasn't angry.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4739.318

Wow. Best that guy's coming up. I think we have to take one more break. Best that guy award. Joe Spinell, I think he's not eligible. Oh, for real? Yeah, he's Joe Spinell.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4751.362

Thayer David is Juergens, the manager, or the promoter.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4756.547

I didn't know what his name was.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

476.615

There were not a lot of non-whites in the theater. I'll just say that.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4762.153

No, he's Joe Spinello. Stan Shaw was another one, but I think he's Stan Shaw who played Dipper. And then Frank Stallone is Frank Stallone.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4778.481

I think Sly's like, can we get Frank in the movie and see if we can get him like 20 bucks. Dion Waiters is a hopping category. We got Marie the Teenage Delinquent. Tony Burton as Duke.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4792.082

Joe Spinello as Gazzo. Stu Nahan and Bill Baldwin. But my pick is Buddy the Driver. You think Burgess is in too much of it? Yeah, he's in too much. He's like the number three star in the movie. I think it's Gazzo's driver. Hey, Rock, did you get the number of the license plate that hit your face? He's the definition of the award. That's right. For sure.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4812.728

By the way, me and my dad used the license plate joke over and over again. That was like, that's 20 years got out of that one. Recasting couch. I'm not touching it. You want to touch it?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4852.355

Half-assed internet research. We did some of these already. I like that Duke didn't have a name in the movie. They didn't name him until Rocky II. The first two Steadicam films were Bound for Glory and Marathon Man, so it was all around the same time. They shot the ice skating date that way because they couldn't afford extras.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

487.904

It wasn't a diverse crowd in Dedham. But first of all, it was amazing. I just never had been to a movie like that. But leaving, my big memory was being confused whether he won the fight or not and asking my dad, but what was the scorecard? Yeah, right. But they said 8-7 Apollo and then they never said what the rest of the card was. How did... And I was just so confused.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4873.131

Burgess had a fake cauliflower ear and a tube stuck up his nostril to make his nose look fucked up. And then, uh, Burt Young did some weird stuff to get in a character. Like he covered himself with vermouth on his neck. He wore too many clothes. So he was hot. He wanted to be like uncomfortable and angry. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4904.125

When they did the climactic fight, they didn't choreograph it and then realized they had to and had to basically stop and go back.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4914.553

And then they're like, wait, this is a disaster.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4953.376

the poster when he goes in and he sees the posters like those aren't my trunks that was an actual mistake they made and they felt like they had to address it so they added that scene so that they would be covered for people to be like why are the posters like this it's just another really good touch from the script it's just like him being in the spectrum before the fight is one of my favorite little moments of the movie where he's just like shit this is too big for me

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4972.594

Well, and then the spectrum doesn't become the spectrum for most of the fight because there was some sort of union issue in Philly.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

4980.027

There was a you think you're better than me union moment, and they had to film a lot of it in LA. It felt. It doesn't look like The Spectrum because you feel it in Rocky II. You're like, oh, this is The Spectrum.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5006.176

No, that's Dave Zinkoff and Dr. J. And it was Barkley.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5014.327

Yeah. I also like with the Spectrum, and I don't know because it was a hockey basketball arena. Don't try to crawl back into Philly's favor. Listen, I'm loyal to the hottest take. We're supposed to throw hot takes around. There was something about the Spectrum, the layout of it, where the fans seemed a little closer.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5034.189

They were the first, I felt like, 70s arena to move people closer. Because if you look at some of the stuff, I noticed this when we were doing the Celtics doc. Even the early 70s, the courtside seats, they're like 30 feet off the court.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5055.898

Yeah, it's cool. Last thing, gonna fly now. How high do you think it got on the Billboard Hot 100 list? I'm gonna go top 10. Yeah, seven. How about one?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

512.704

And then upon rewatches, you realize what happened.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5128.697

Ben's going through all his porn searches now.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5171.348

Well, so the glasses are so ugly. Right. They're like out of like 1925. They're like pharmacy glasses or whatever. Talia Shire. I'm going to say yes for her too.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5182.051

Yeah. And she got a couple of projects out of this, but none of them made it.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5196.029

I want to take care of you now, Michael.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5233.632

Bull Durham. Because I think he's still having sex. Yeah. Because you know what?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5239.816

I think he woke up a beast with Adrian. I think there's a lot of time for thinking in the fish store. Yeah, Van knows.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5266.834

Well, what's the phenomenon behind that? Because you have more testosterone if you haven't shot a load in a while? Is that what we're supposed to think?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5297.566

I was just kidding. Wow. Oh, God. I was going to say maybe they'd try that with Anthony Edwards. Zion. John Avildsen, even though he won the Oscar for this, could make a case it's Karate Kid. Karate Kid, yeah. Because then he's got Rocky and Karate Kid. Karate Kid definitely made more.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5319.287

whatever happened so did Ableton fall out with Stallone how come he couldn't they wouldn't I don't think he was a giant boxing fan well Stallone wanted to direct the second one himself he wanted to do the written and directed by Sylvester Stallone Philadelphia Apex Mountain CR I'll let you decide um

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5366.279

Burt Young. yeah what did Bert Young ever it's probably Rocky 3 when this character becomes more tolerable at least somewhat best Bert Young though is Back to School with Rodney Dangerfield oh yeah when he plays the driver slash muscle amazing performance we haven't done Back to School right no it's on the list Spider Rico Definitely. Ice skating dates.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5398.358

Yeah. Rocky movies. No. Boxing movies? Boxing movies was the last one I had.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5416.195

Maybe it's rewatchable boxing movies. Fine. I don't know.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5428.566

If you're going to a desert island, do you take Raging Bull or Rocky?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5469.223

I can't buy Hanks as a heavyweight boxing challenger.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5475.066

I could because I think he would do like six months of prep for it. He would gain all the weight and then would lose the weight during the five weeks of filming and get ripped.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5524.81

This is becoming one of my favorite categories. What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Pauly? Pauly. I got Pauly. Or Gotso's driver. How about Juergens?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5545.104

Picking nets. So Rocky just waltzes into the spectrum one day before the fight to look around. Let him in.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5558.377

It goes all the way down to the spectrum just to go look at the things hanging down. It's a little weird.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5575.601

This is my biggest one. Five weeks. Plenty of time to prepare to fight the heavyweight champion of the world. I don't feel like 40 guys are turning that fight down. They make it seem like, oh, not enough time. Nobody's going to take it. It's like, oh, I got the feeling.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5591.921

But he does that only because everybody keeps turning the fight down. Oh, okay.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5618.806

took the fight on basically I just think in real boxing people take it the string trick of putting string around your ankles keep your balance that seems like bullshit is that Mick's primary contribution aside from the cut man like what is what else does Mick teach him

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5656.796

Woman weak in legs. We learned that. Go to the body. You need better balance. That's three things. Stop smoking.

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‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5665.127

Okay. Rocks in a much better spot five weeks later than he was in the start.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5672.175

Yeah, got a great cut guy with a razor blade. Any other nitpicks for you guys?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5726.489

Coming in to buy some piranhas?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5732.257

Well, there's a question. So Rocky and Pauly are best friends. And Rocky's like 29, 30? 30, yeah. the first time it occurred to him to make a run at the fish store girl?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5748.972

And unfortunately, she can't communicate.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5751.555

Until she takes her glasses off and she's just like, let's smash. Yeah. I mean, she gets it. She really enjoyed it. She changes.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5774.957

That would have been a better hot of steak for me. Here's why virginity is overrated. Whoa.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5813.208

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Longlegs, Wilford Brimley in The Firm. And I want to kind of add Gotso's Driver to this going forward.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5846.714

I miss Collinsburg. Yeah. It's been like two months for him. Tony Romo.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5882.593

Yeah. Probably unanswerable questions. Do women weaken legs, Van? Did we get a decision?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5896.377

Was this like set in Vegas in the Bunny Ranch or whatever that show was? Did they merge the two shows? Right now.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5914.791

What were the odds on FanDuel heading into this fight? No, man. I don't think it would go higher than minus 2,000, but I think Creed is minus 2,000.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5928.821

Yeah, that was like 30 to 1. That was the last time they were that high. So maybe 30 to 1 here. The over-under for rounds... I think it's two and a half. Two and a half, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5938.311

For sure. And people are banging the under.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5953.055

I think after the second round, it's just hard. It's like Apollo is now like minus 400. Oh, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5958.796

There's like a lot of Rocky money. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5971.466

I guess... The gloves would be cool from the fight. The gloves, yeah. Or Rocky's gloves, his little... Or his little training gloves.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5980.857

I really like the Italian stallion gray sweatshirt he wears for three months straight, but I can't imagine it smells awesome.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

5989.339

I was looking at some of the Mickey, like the training camp, like pullovers they have and stuff like that. I think some of the posters outside of the gym would be cool. Yeah, there's a poster in Juergens' office that I really liked. Maybe the photo of Mickey when he was a younger fighter.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6022.975

Adrian's Joy of Sex book. Maybe that could be it. Adrian's Kama Sutra.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6034.464

Yeah. The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6057.238

Yeah, we went 0 for 5. It's like, it's just, he doesn't answer. He lets it ring and then calls back 10 minutes later, guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

607.35

Well, it also feels very mid-70s as a movie. This ties into a lot of other great movies. I mean, this is such an unbelievable time for movies, that 74 to 78 stretch. Yeah. And just the way they did it, I just think even five years later, the movie's different. Like we're only, they make this in 76. We're eight years away from Karate Kid, which is the next, the 2.0 version of this movie. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6085.029

Best double feature choice. Would you go Rocky II or something else? I'd go Raging Bull.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6100.429

Yeah, what's yours? Rocky II. Okay. I think you have to go right from here into the second one. And then just make sure you skip over about 40 minutes when Adrian goes in a coma. So does the audience. When we do Rocky II rewatchables, it's going to be about 50 minutes. It's my least favorite one. But the last 25 minutes are great. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6153.547

Have we ever had somebody win a movie harder than this? I feel like this might be the number one who won the movie ever. We would have said Tarantino, but Stallone as a writer and a star and then a 50, it has to be Stallone, right?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6175.095

We've only seen, at least since I started following movies, which is right around when this movie came out, There's only been a couple of rags to riches stories like this with stars.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6208.396

Tarantino is one, but he had true romance before, so he at least had a foot in the door. Chaz Palminteri. Tarantino was one for what? You're talking about for Pope? Yeah, for Pope.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6221.566

He had a foot in the door. Julia Roberts is another one, but she had Steel Magnolias and she was in Mystic Pizza. She was around and I knew who it was. This was just for somebody to come out of nowhere and immediately become an A-plus list star.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6239.199

You got Pacino and the Godfather maybe, but he'd even done Panic in Needle Park.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6247.438

Yeah, I can't. Certainly not in the last 30 years.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6266.183

Did you say Charles Holmes on Midnight Boys? That's a big one.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6299.594

All right, that's it. So now we've done three Rockies. Yeah. The only one, and we've done Creed. So we've actually, I guess, done four Rockies.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6309.801

Because people always ask why we didn't do Rocky yet, even though we've done 3 and 4. I actually think that we handled it perfectly. 3, 4, 1 is the prequel, and kind of end with 2, which is the least rewatchable of the four. Did you see Creed 3? I did. Thoughts? I thought Majors was really good. He's really good in everything. He's really good. And I think I liked it more than I liked Creed 2.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

631.133

And that is a completely different movie in every respect. This is slow. It's really trying to build character. It's trying to have these little moments. It's a love story. It has some characters that are awful.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6340.273

I don't remember too much. Yeah. You know, I think it's time for the franchise now that we're at 50 years.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6354.116

So this franchise is older than you are.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6368.971

Yeah. I mean, there is a move left that the Shields movie, which I really liked, but there's a female Rocky angle that they could do. They wanted to flip it. Basically do all the same stuff and have it be and have Pauly be the sister and But nobody wants that. Just come up with your own movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6410.231

Yeah. I mean, but even with Creed... I mean, you could. UFC's sitting there. It's weird. There just hasn't been enough UFC movie content at a high level. Warrior's by far the best one. But, yeah, I guess you could do Rocky UFC. But... I mean, yeah, I guess you could. I don't know if the UFC guys... Or you make this more of an erotic thriller with Adrian's... It's filtered on Adrian's Awakening.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6434.166

Is that what you would call it?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6461.109

There's a brief twinkle in her eye when Clubber Lang is calling her out in Rocky III. Oh, she liked it. You can see for one second, she's like, oh. She's like, maybe I'm a dark shark. Clubber.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6478.769

I've been waiting for Clubber to look my way. Yeah, she liked it. Rocky, so your rankings are still 3-4-1-2 or 3-1-4-2? 3-1. 3-1-4-2 for you? 3-1-4-2.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6537.113

I saw Rocky 2 in the theater with my best friend. Crowd standing.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

6565.12

Well, we won't invite you on the Rocky 2 pod. Shout out to Dedham. But when we do Adrian's Awakening, you're there. I'm there, of course. Fancy our great Steve. Thanks to Jack Sanders as well. Shout out to Craig Horlbeck, who wasn't there this time around for us, but we got the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. So you can check us out there. See you next week.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

664.997

Takes you to a new world, which we love on the rewatchables.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

706.883

We have a lot of Pauly stuff coming.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

725.069

We have to go backwards to 76 because I just need to, because I'm old enough to remember this. I can't explain what a giant phenomenon this was. like Jaws in 75, this in 76, Saturday Night Fever in 77, Star Wars in 77, where these movies would hit. And then there would be like seven, eight different outcomes from the movie hitting. And in this one, like the music, people started jogging.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

751.544

For real. And maybe they were jogging before this movie, but I never remember seeing anyone jog before this movie came out.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

763.812

People always claim Jim Fix, but I always feel like Rocky, the concept of just people training and being motivated to train,

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

770.456

I remember, I'm not kidding, I was a little kid being in the living room because I was the only child and I would play the Rocky soundtrack and I would just be in the main event boxing Apollo and just running around like, you know when you fake play and you're like hitting yourself and you're listening to music. Like this movie was... So you boxed Apollo, you were a Rocky and Apollo?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

799.471

But this is what you did with this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

803.853

This is what you did though. You jogged to this movie. You shadow boxed to it.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

807.474

And then the other piece of it was just alone going from, I've never heard of this person before to this person's now in my life. And then think about how he's been in our life. I mean, this is, I don't know how many rewatchables we've done with him at this point, but- I don't know if there's been a bigger rags-to-riches actor story than this.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

863.808

It's hilarious that Sly Stallone wrote it.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

878.596

One of my favorite script, like just little touches, is when they watch the interview on TV and they're kind of making fun of him in the interview after he takes the fight. And he's like, yeah, it doesn't bother me. And then he walks away and Adrian's kind of watching him leave. He's like, you remember when I said this stuff didn't bother me? It did. It did.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

89.645

We are now available on video on Spotify. We have a YouTube channel as well that you can find on Ringer Movies. Van Lathan is here. You can find him on Higher Learning. You can find him on... Midnight Boys, pew, pew. Pew, pew. Come on, you know that.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

898.673

And then he just walks out and be like, oh man, this fucking guy. Can't he buy a break?

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

932.75

Now, now this is a completely invented. This is why this is such an influential movie. We could talk about a million different things.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

941.274

I think, Until Rod Tidwell, I think Apollo was the best kind of side sports movie character ever. Yeah. Like, if you actually watch all the Apollo scenes carefully in this movie, he's a fucking amazing character. He's like a businessman. The way he talks, he's charismatic. He's doing partly Ali, but he's also... I don't think Ali was a businessman like this. He's a thinker.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

963.484

He's the one who figures out what to do in that fight. And you just get a complete feel for him. You want to spend more time with him. And I have him in the finals against Rod Tidwell.

The Rewatchables

‘Rocky’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Van Lathan

996.638

He knows what's going to sound. It's like, he's got to fight a white guy from Philly.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1130.33

Well, the big picture is the first one is about the idealism of everything. Yeah. And this one is kind of like when you've had – You've had some experiences, good and bad. Is it actually better because you appreciate it a little bit more? Kind of like how Mal didn't win the Super Bowl for 10 years and now she'll appreciate it more the next time it happens. Some respect on Joe Flacco's name.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1151.195

There's been some losses, some pieces taken from you. But it is interesting. What's better? I would argue that it's still being in that first before sunrise phase of like... The world is wide open. I don't really know. I haven't really been hurt yet. I still believe in all these things as a better place to be, but this is also a really interesting place too.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1215.356

This is my second favorite movie sequel ever. I actually went through everything to make sure that was true. Porky's 2? Godfather 2 is still my favorite. I can't put anything over Godfather 2, but it's on that short list. I had Terminator 2, Aliens, Maverick, Dark Knight. which I think counts as a sequel. I'm talking about official sequels, not like the fourth movie and a thing.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1239.486

We were following up this movie with this one, which I think goes wrong most of the time. And it's either we didn't get one person that we thought from the previous movie we couldn't get them, or it's just like, this is a money grab situation. This is like a true sequel in every respect, which it's weird. Why is it so hard to pull off?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

130.694

All right, everybody. First four-person pod we've done in a while in studio. Really exciting. Mallory, you heard the Before Sunrise pod. Oh, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1350.335

Usually it goes the way of another 48 hours. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1353.577

We've all packed some pounds on. Eddie put on some weight. Yeah. We got you out of jail again. He's not a smoking racist anymore. Where are we? Why did this happen? Can we talk about the Oscar piece of this? Sure.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1368.93

We have to take a break? Let's take a break and then we'll do the Oscar piece of this. All right, so I try not to do this with every movie we do, but I found the 2005 Oscars for the 2004 season confusing when it happened because this movie was critically adored. And I think I just don't really understand it.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1395.568

Not that we can make sense of the Oscars ever, but for best picture, it ended up being Million Dollar Baby 1, The Aviator, Finding Neverland, Ray, and Sideways. were the other ones. Best Director, he didn't get that.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1418.105

So Best Actor, Jamie Foxx wins for Ray. Don Cheadle, Hotel Rwanda. Johnny Depp, Finding Neverland. Leo and the Aviator. And Clint Eastwood, A Million Dollar Baby. I'm positive Ethan Hawke was one of the best five performances. Best Actress, Hilary Swank. Annette Bening being Julia, Catalina Sandino Moreno, Maria Fulgrace, Imelda Staunton and Vera Drake, and Kate Winslet in Eternal Sunshine.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1484.289

which Julie Delpy, which Celine were you more attracted to? Before Sunrise Celine or before Sunset Celine? Because I think it says a lot about... It's Sunset. It says a lot about us because I was more attracted to Sunset Celine. Yeah. I think that says a lot about me. What does it say? That it was just more interesting. She was crazier.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1508.239

It's like she lit that cigarette. I was like, ah. This movie did get nominated for an Oscar for Best Adapted Screenplay.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1539.009

By the way, this was a kick-ass movie year. Yeah. There was a lot of good stuff from this year. Like, even from the comedy side, like,

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1545.774

anchorman was this year there's a bunch of uh good bunch of horror movies like i was surprised going through it because in the moment we're like movies suck now what's wrong with movies now like i would take half of 2004 i i would be hard pressed to think of a movie that came out this year that i like more than the one we're talking about today this is probably this probably if i was doing that list back then in 25 or 24 like in 2004 yeah yeah 2.7 million dollar budget made 15 million

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1570.157

Our guy Raj, he let us down in the previous three-star Raj. He didn't understand these boring Gen X people. 3.5 stars for this one. He said it was a remarkable celebration of the fascination of good dialogue. But Before Sunset is better. That's what he said, Before Sunrise. Before Sunset is better because the characters are older and wiser. They more to lose or win.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1592.761

And perhaps because Hawk and Delpy wrote the dialogue themselves. The film has the materials... for a lifetime project. Like the 7-Up series.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1603.448

This is a conversation that could be returned to every 10 years or so as Selene and Jesse grow older. And yet.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1644.504

Where they didn't know anything about what was happening. Good point. Yeah, Sunrise gets a degree of difficulty because they're starting from scratch. Yeah. It's a premise that probably shouldn't have worked. We're not going to get producer Craig's feelings on the trilogy yet.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1664.432

80 minutes. 80 minutes for the second one. Did you pass out? Were you delirious?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1680.811

It's so short, I almost had that for What's Aged the Worst. I kind of wanted six more minutes.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1686.596

As soon as they get in the back of the car, I'm like, oh my God, is this almost over?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1691.92

Yeah, but it's almost like the movies never do this anymore, but they want you leaving. Wanting more. Wanting a little bit more.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1701.826

Yeah, as soon as they get in the limo, it is kind of, they get off the Paris boat and it's like, oh my God, this movie's got like 18 minutes left. Yeah. It's amazing. What is the exact perfect age to see this movie, CR? I have after you're married. So whatever age that is? Yeah. What do you think, Mal?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1754.111

Sierra went on off the pike hoping the girl from New York Comics would see him on there.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1761.492

Did I hear you on the 25th anniversary of NOMA?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1773.473

I think you have to be at least early 30s and...

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

190.345

So Before Sunrise, 1995, but it was really set in 1994. Before Sunset comes out in 2004. It's set nine years later. I'll start here. The six great questions of life. How did we get here? What happens after you die? Who killed JFK? Why does fantasy log rewatchables movies on a letterbox and spoil when a movie is coming just to impress a couple of dweebs? That's number four.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1902.853

And you're like, still thinking about it. I actually disagree with my friend Sean. I think this is an optimistic movie. I think it ultimately is like a lot of weird shit can happen and you could give up and think that the moment passed, but sometimes it doesn't and you still have a chance.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1924.502

But I see what you're saying about like this really lays out the baggage that can happen. With some bad choices. You know, it's child of divorce.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1948.107

his life goes on you know and that's the whole point of these movies but the flip side of that is if the grandmother doesn't die she's in Vienna well the flip side of that is that if the German couple aren't arguing on the train they never meet in the first place I mean it's just like the whole thing that's what's great about this movie there's 40 different points that could have gone bad it's true most rewatchable scene Jesse in the bookstore

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1968.695

Just going to start there. I weirdly really like the press conference of this random book because it's so absurd. It would never happen in real life. Please tell me what the book of basketball version of this was for you.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

1982.521

Being Paris, just doing like they get the hands going. Here's the thing about Kareem that a lot of people didn't realize. This would just never happen, but I like watching Ethan Hawke just be full Ethan Hawke. Just doing Ethan Hawke stuff, doing the, it's like my grandfather said to answer that. take the piss out of everything. It's just slightly overacting, but I'm still into it.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2003.443

Someone's like, MJ or LeBron, Bill. It's like, grandmas. I like how into it that one reporter is too, where she's a little like, a little sweet on Jessie.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2013.852

But then, watching her, the way they're using the flashbacks, I just think that scene is so well directed. So good. Cutting back and forth with the new one, and then, It's that part when they're memorizing each other's face from the first movie. They're flashing back to that. And then it cuts right to her now. And it's like, oh, my God. So good.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2043.084

It's really great. And his reaction to seeing her, everything about it. It's just great.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2093.178

I basically just have the whole movie as watchable scenes, but we have the awkward walk.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2151.349

I also like when she says, do you think I'm neurotic? Oh, my God. You must think I'm so. And it's like, yeah, you're being neurotic right now. At the cafe is really good. Do I look any different? Skinnier?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2197.428

You thought I was a little fat French girl? Wait. Um, but most importantly, the cigarettes come out CR. I mean, we'll talk about it in a minute.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2205.255

Yeah. We got, uh, we get quotes like desires to fuel life. They're really cooking in the cafe. So good. Then we get to Celine pretends she doesn't remember having sex with them.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2216.404

Um, In lines like, I remember that night better than I remember entire years. What'd you think of Jesse's six months later, lottery winners are the same no matter what their plate is, whether they're paraplegics or... Rich, they revert back to where they were.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

222.092

I believe it was Chris Ryan who spoiled Before Sunrise, not me. Number five. He said we were doing it. I'm not done with my six questions. Number five, did Stern suspend MJ? And then the sixth great question of life, what if you had a second chance with the one who got away?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2250.706

It's amazing. We've become such perverts in the last nine years.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2254.99

The boat ride. I don't know how the boat ride doesn't win most rewatchable scenes, but it's not going to. Is it possible to have a bad on a boat going slowly down Paris scene. I'm trying to think of any movie that could fuck this up.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2323.521

How do you feel about Jesse's Notre Dame story?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2327.823

Do you think that was a real story or was that another thing dipping into the routine?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2343.372

Sprint his legs for Jesse already. Jawing with Jesse?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2352.834

Great. Put him on the Prestige TV pod. He would be good. He's just breaking down severance. Yeah. Then we get near the end of the boat. You want to know why I wrote that book?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2403.134

We also get the line, I guess when you're young, you just believe there'll be many people with whom you'll connect with. Later in life, you realize it only happens a few times.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

242.517

We already did that five times. But this movie taps into that theme. There's been other ones. This did it the best, and it's one of the many great reasons why this is an all-time classic. Mal, go ahead.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2452.579

That's when your capacity in your nightclub starts getting cut down. You go from like a 350 person capacity to like 70. You wrote about this, I feel like. Yeah, when you hit your 40s, it turns, it's like a 25 person. It's like a invite only social club. We also get, I feel like I'm running a small nursery with someone I used to date.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2472.753

And if someone would touch me, I would dissolve into molecules. There's a lot of stuff going on. Plus the 11th and Broadway thing.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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Then we get to the limo freak out when we find out what actually happened. That she was fine until she read his fucking book.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2552.673

I put all my romanticism into that one night and then you took it with you. Yeah. It's really, really playing all the hits for Mal.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

256.09

No, the second chance with the one who got away.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2563.524

Then he has the good joke, I'm happy to see you even if you become an angry manic depressive activist. A little comedy in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2573.35

Really some great takes on an unhappy marriage where you're really for the full depth like, oh man, this guy. And when he says the thing about it's all worth it because he doesn't want to give up one minute with the kid or whatever that line is. And it's like, yeah, there's a million people like that who are like, you know what?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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I'll suffer the rest of this because I don't want to miss anything with this child that I created.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2612.579

Then she's like, wait, I'll get sadder than this after she almost touches his head.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2692.389

And if you think about where these two actors were at in their real lives, you can feel them putting their lives into what they're saying. Well, we should mention that. He's getting divorced from Uma Thurman. What was going on with her?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2754.467

The good news is she's not a lust object anymore, and nobody was online last night looking for photos of her smoking to send to CR. I didn't do that at all. That's not in my Google history. And I did not respond with a ready-made photo album. She's not a lust object. Called from the Google image search, Julie Delpy smoking. That never happened.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2787.703

She also says, I think I might have given up on the whole idea of romantic love. I might have put it to bed that day when you weren't there. Because she's like, how do I trump this guy burying his soul to me? I'm going to just say I'm dead inside. And that's where we land as we head to the last 15 minutes of the movie. We get a walk. We get the song. Nina Simone.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2833.32

So it's either between the limo or the end of the movie for me. I would go with the ending just because I think it's one of the best last 15 minutes of a movie ever. And the song is just... Especially the first time you see this movie, the song is just one of the breathtaking... When she sings to him. When she sings to Walt's song. It's one of the great moments of this century in a movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

2891.392

Just the lyrics and everything. The whole movie leads up to that moment and then it like crushes it. It's like a sports scene.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

291.716

Shouldn't Lamar have locked in that pass to Andrews a little bit higher?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3012.7

Also, to act in a limo is just, like, bizarre. It's tight. They're moving around. Yeah, you got Philippe up there. Who knows what's going on with that guy.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3034.234

Yeah. It's a cop-out, but the answer is everything from the boat on. But then if you go everything from the limo on. But if this movie's on, it's like, oh, they're in the limo? I'm going to watch this.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3043.924

It's 78 minutes of movie that you can just get through. I would pick The Waltz as the single most for me. What's the most 2004 thing about this movie? What do you have? Celine's Freedom Fries joke.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3059.688

That's a good one. That's a very topical, good one. I was going to say no Facebook and how easy, if it's two years later, they're hunting each other down.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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The fact, and I have some questions about why they couldn't have hunted themselves down in 2004. We had enough technology at that point. We'd email, we'd Google. Does he even know her last name?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

308.302

The wound is still so raw. See our second chances?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3100.148

I would say it's the best. What do you got, Mallory?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3252.812

Wow. That's a really good one. It's a sad one, but it's a good one. I had how they're talking about...

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3286.613

This is a really good one. I'm surprised I wanted you to mention it. Living in New York at the same time with somebody else and not realizing they were there.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3310.144

Even being alone, it's better than sitting next to your lover and feeling lonely.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3358.351

I would suffer all the torture to be there for all the minutes of his life was the divorce quote. That's just a good quote.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3373.898

And I don't really like cats, but good performance by the cat.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3412.162

This is a story that can be translated across time. He said it's a bestseller. A minor bestseller.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3416.566

So that means like New York Times extended list. It's like number 22. Yeah. Just don't think he's getting a European book tour.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3435.475

What's the big newspaper in Paris? Le Monde. The Lamond editor's like, hey, who do we have going down to the bookstore for Jesse Wallace? No, no, that's not enough. He's number 24 on the extended bestseller list.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3450.2

Don't we want someone to cover that? No, no, we need to be at the bookstore. Great shot, Gorder Award. Most cinematic shot. What do you got, Ciara?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3488.134

I actually like the very, very ending for most cinematic shot, that she's dancing and turning, and the way it fades out is really well done. You don't know if the movie's done yet, and then it's like, no, no, not only are we done, we're going to fade out.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3542.104

It's a weird but a cool choice that they make. Kid Cudi, Pursuit of Happiness, or Best Needle Drop has got to be the Nina Simone song because it's the only needle drop.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3581.087

Right. Den of Thieves, Benihana, where it's seen still in location. We don't always give this one out, but I really liked her apartment complex. Just that whole building, everything was really neat.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3596.852

We don't get to give this one out either that much. The Miley Rubin Award. Did this movie need a better sex scene?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3628.816

We'll take a break and then CR is going to do his flex category.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3639.932

All right, see our flex category. What do you got for us?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3664.261

Yeah, I have it here. Julie Delpy smokes and smokes. She smokes so much she should consider wearing ashtrays as trinkets. It's the first two. Your dream woman.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3689.364

We were, I'm still upset that they didn't smoke in the first movie. That's fine. The Butch's girlfriend or word wink leak in the film. I mentioned this earlier. I just felt like they could have done a slightly better job of trying to find each other.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3700.168

If this was the true love of your life and you've never been the same since it didn't work out that day, I just feel like by 2004, you could maybe hunt the person down. You get the impression that she didn't go the extra mile. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3733.333

I just feel like she would have known his last name by the end of spending 20 hours together in Vienna. What is his last name? Wallace. What's aged the worst? I really have nothing other than I wanted Delpy to take a couple more puffs from the cigarette. She might say it.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3901.673

I didn't like the second novel idea. I had it in picking nits that he would just volunteer to these strangers. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3909.101

It was probably my biggest nitpick in the movie because if you have an idea, the last thing you want to do is be like, what do you guys think? Because then somebody else could just write it and take it.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

3936.297

Does anyone have a CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award? I do. I'm a hot take. Okay, let's hear it, CR.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4001.83

I think when your sex PER is under three, all bets are off.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4044.619

Is there a deleted scene where Jesse's wife is just angrily stalking around in the airport because he has his plane? He wasn't on the plane? Or hysterical, like, where is he?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4112.156

No, that's a hot take. But I mean, cats are animals.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4116.919

Who would just kill rodents and different things. Bring a dead rat back into your living room and be like, look, mom.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

42.076

The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network, where we can find the big picture with Sean Fennessey. That's right. House of R with Mallory Rubin. What are you up to again? Any pod that'll have me, man. The lady of the night of the Ringer Podcast Network. The new CR pod. You'll hear him on Off the Pike with Brian Barrett a little bit later. My name is Bill Simmons.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4220.812

The End Waiters Award, the press tour questionnaire, the limo driver who looks like Larry Zbysko. What do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4240.148

Probably could have been drawn out a little more post-script editing.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

425.58

I saw it in 2004 summer at the, what's the place, the La Malay, whatever.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4264.139

Recasting couch director of City. I mean, we can run this back in Boston. Jesse's book tour in Boston.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4322.792

Right. You didn't give Celine the Edie Falco and Copland award as well for the character that became three times hotter as soon as they had a cigarette? It's not even three times hotter. She's already like non-smoking heavyweight champion of the world. Half-assed internet research. Originally, Linklater considered... a larger budget with four locations could not get the funding.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

433.585

Lamley in Crescent Heights in Sunset. We had lived in LA for, I think, 18 months. My wife didn't really like it in 03, and then eventually was starting to like it, and by summer 04... Liked it. And I was at a completely different place in my life than the first time I saw it where I was dating somebody, but I had no idea where my life was going. I was living in Boston. Nine years passed.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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It just feels like it completely betrays the whole point of the first two movies to be like a bigger budget. I just didn't get it either. They filmed it in Paris, obviously. Shakespeare and Company is the bookstore. It's on the left bank.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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So it's a little bit of a movie magic going on. There's some other French stuff that I'm not going to try to say the names, including her apartment, which was filmed in Cours des Tours. You guys have your social clip. You said you weren't going to say it. It was one of the hottest summers on record, 100 degree weather during the filming.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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And then the man and woman that Celine speaks to in the courtyard were her actual parents.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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Next to the picture where she looks like a cross-eyed baby.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4421.628

The CD is Tomato Collection by Nina Simone, which weirdly was recorded on June 16th, 1968. Oh. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4458.925

Apex Mountain. We already did Hawk and Delpy. I think this is it for Delpy. Probably.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4489.395

It's a pretty long list. Sequels, no. Romantic sequels. Might be.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4525.927

The Suicide Squad. I think for me it's probably Shawshank. Or The Shining.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4535.49

Draft Day? Yeah, Draft Day. Bueller. This is a good movie set in one day, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

455.013

Now we're out here thinking about maybe we had a dog, thinking about maybe having a kid. And it was just a great experience. Was so excited that this movie was coming out. So I was like, man, it would be cool if they made a sequel to that. I was like, hey, you hear what they made? hey, they're working. And then it was like, no, they're making it. And it's like, oh, I hope they don't fuck it up.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4556.19

I don't know if this is Nina Simone's Apex Mountain. It's not. But you could make a case because this movie will live on for like 100 years in a weird way. She was a world famous star at the time.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4567.097

I'm just saying. What is her Apex Mountain then? Maybe it's her... Feeling good, probably. Her posthumous Apex Mountain?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4622.388

Oh, CR, you're really off the reservation there. I guess this is the last rewatchables. I was trying to think like Billy Crystal, Meg Ryan. These two are way better to me. Yeah, that's what I'm just trying to think of famous couples in a movie. Yeah, I think there's obviously a lot of... Oh, I know it. It's De Niro and Fonda. Jackie Brown.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4690.449

It doesn't matter. Cruz or Hanks in the Jesse part. Pick. Yo, homie, is that my Celine?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4698.584

Alright, so Cruz wins. Cruz wins describing the second novel idea.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

473.707

And then a couple people I knew saw it and they were like, it's great. I'm like, really? It's great? And then you go and it's like, oh, my God. I remember leaving the theater being like, I don't know what to do. Let's go get coffee. It was one of those. And it still is, 21 years later. It still fires me up, especially the last 50 minutes. I think it's one of the great movies of that decade.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4737.711

What role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? This category is really growing on me.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4749.276

So I have a little special mailbag interlude from Courtney C. Yeah. who writes, the Rewatchables mailbag episode was fantastic. Thank you, Courtney. I was thinking about that email that suggested a female counterpart category to the Cruise vs. Hanks category. Yeah. How about this? Pick a Jennifer.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4769.28

Would the lead female role be better with Jennifer Aniston, Lawrence, Lopez, Connelly, Garner, or Coolidge?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4776.463

Jennifer Roulette. Oh, my God. I didn't hear Love Hewitt in there. Then she writes, P.S. I love the podcast. Whenever you get together with CR, it always feels like I'm hanging out with the guys I grew up with. Keep up the great work. Wow, thanks, Courtney. Thanks for making us feel great. You must have had some cool friends. So Jennifer Love Hewitt could be in there too.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4797.542

Could Jenna Ortega be squeezed in? Oh, wow. Jenna Ortega.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4802.883

She hasn't earned it. Not yet. She's not there. But Jennifer Love Hewitt, I think, could be in there. What about Jennifer Jason Leigh? Jennifer Jason Leigh could be in there.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4820.353

all Jennifer any Jennifer all Jennifer's are open sounds like the porn title of this movie I like this one so who would be the Jennifer for this movie I can't conceive of this character not being French so until you give me an alternative French accent how about Jennifer Connelly with a French accent yeah sure I mean who says no honestly yeah the Dan Campbell scale for holy shit are they really going for this right now the waltz yeah oh she's gonna play it oh yeah

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4849.997

All right, Mallory, it's time. Your flex category.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4860.101

No, I didn't know where you were going. You were working on these a little earlier. Go ahead.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4896.8

Before Come Rise and Before Come Set is pretty good. What does cum say?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4919.6

Thanks, Craig. Craig's going to take the safari cachet hit. I like when Mal, when we do movies with pets, Mal always remembers the pet's name.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4959.123

Did Jesse start in the Capitol on January 6th? Huge Wolfowitz guy, Jesse. He loves the Department of Defense.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4969.912

We did all my picking nits. Actually, and then the 47-minute walk. There's one where the extra in the red shirt is about to walk by them and then doesn't walk by them when they flip camera angles for like 10 seconds. That's just like a fuck-up. Do better. We hit everything else. You don't have any other nitpicks, right?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

4993.983

Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. This became a trilogy.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5001.9

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harling Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Longlegs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm? CR?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5066.194

I actually was thinking Collinsworth would be pretty good for this.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5069.956

Like, oh, Mike. She just nailed the waltz, Mike. I mean, you can't. She didn't even remember the lyrics that she was nailing it, Mike. Just want to ask her who gets it. Delpy.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5103.739

Probably unanswerable questions. When did he actually get on the plane? How many days passed?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5125.625

I'm meeting with the book company here about the second book.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5152.764

I think he stays three extra days and then tells his wife when he gets home. He's like, I'm packing. Guess what?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5162.352

get into all that i think maybe just my my my affection for hank you know i want to believe hank's collateral damage in the love affair of a lifetime hank will be fine he's got a cool new stepmom yeah yeah hank got pardoned before midnight is telling us hank got pardoned from january 6th he's fine he's doing good he internalized all of his father's ideas any other unanswerable questions for you all

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

524.033

What do you think? I don't know if there's going to be a third. I think people are going to be expecting the trilogy pod and I don't think it's happening. Oh, man. I'm there when you need me. We might be saving that for some sort of theme month. We're getting divorced. Pull my intestines out of my body through my rectum month.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5254.426

um how do you guys think the song about che the cat went we know that that's one of the three english songs one is about an x uh an xx many i had a question i had an unanswerable for that whether she was singing the waltz regardless of which one he picked because the choices she gave were like pretty lame choices i think that that's on purpose i think that she gave him those choices so that he would pick the wall that's what i'm saying and she offers it up last because who would have been like oh let me hear the song about your cat that sounds fucking awesome and we certainly wouldn't want to hear the song about the x

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5283.948

no of course not but the song about the cat would have been great the only thing for the she's like the XX would be like is that about me maybe I'll pick that one possibly possibly but we know she's had many men many men many pieces of herself were handed out all over Paris and New York

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5328.337

I have probably an answerable question. What's BookTok?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5350.953

You know why I'm not on TikTok? Because I'm going to be like Will Smith and I am legend. I'll be the only one left after the Chinese take everything from TikTok. It'll just be me. They'll not have my info.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5380.482

Do you think Jesse's in any position to make such demands? I need some press with the press.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5441.533

Yeah, she's Neil McCauley range. Why are you so interested in what I do, lady?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5464.165

I like what I'm seeing from him. I have some real questions about whether she would ever know the book came out in 2004.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5475.629

That means she's reading the newspaper from cover to cover. Does she seem like an I read the newspaper?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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Okay, let me ask you a question. There's a world where she just never knows the book.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5499.504

It hinges on that. She had to see that this book was coming out with this guy, Jesse Wallace, but was she had to know that's the Jesse Wallace. So why didn't she look him up?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5549.095

I don't think they did. You say no. Okay. I think that's crazy that they wouldn't have exchanged last names when they're 20 hours together. I have another question because we couldn't answer this in the first one because we didn't know if they had sex or not, but they did.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5565.629

Way to go, Jesse. Jesse put all his stuff in a locker.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5600.151

I'm saying the condom's in the era for when you're single and that's part of your... The question is really like, what condom was Jesse carrying? But they told us not to do that. Why?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5634.423

he runs out of money at like 7pm yeah he probably got a condom from like the one of those things that drops him out of the bar in the bathroom the thing he put in like 10 cents so for what piece of memorabilia would you want Jesse's condom from the first film I'd want Jesse's sign book of this time me too I think is the easy obvious answer which raises the question was this time a good title yeah can I ask a secondary question

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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It shows restraint to not do that. I think This Time is a terrible title.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5682.207

I actually think it should have been called Before Sunrise, even though it's corny. It makes more sense to me than This Time. What does This Time even mean? It sounds like the name of a Kenny Loggins song. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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Actually, What a Fool Believes, if we're going Yacht Rock, would have been a better title. Coach Finstock or Best Life Lesson. Memories are a wonderful thing if you don't have to deal with the past. That was a great quote from her.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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Best double feature choice has to be Before Sunrise, unless you would say Before Midnight.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5756.61

Because the movie hinges on if the waltz isn't really good, the movie kind of... That's true. It gets a little scraggly at the end.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

5772.324

Well, buckle up. Producer Craig, who had not seen any of these movies, and then watched both of them.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

581.287

Well, the other thing, so they're also playing off the first movie. Yeah. Which was so ambitious and works. And then they're like, well, how do we top that? And they basically just run it through. It's almost like the Goodfellas nightclub, walking into the Copacabana scene, and they're just trying to do that as the movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

598.197

But watching how nervous they are around each other and how the barriers start coming down, and by the time they get into the limo, Now it's just like, fuck it. I'm just going to... Incredible. I have no more secrets. I'm just going to tell you what I think now. And by the time we get to the apartment, you just watch these... I've never had an experience like that with a movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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There's something about... That's why this movie works so well with the years it was made. Because you'd also, if it was made now, there'd be phones. She would have hunted him down in five seconds. There's all these reasons why this movie could never happen in the way it happens.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

6079.63

Are you going to ruin, pull my intestines through my rectum month?

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

6156.146

Weirdly, 80 minutes is also kind of the perfect podcast interview length. When anyone I've done, I've always felt like around 70 minutes, it starts to get a little gamey.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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We'll see you next week. Not with Before Midnight, by the way.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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My name is Bill Simmons. This is Before Sunset. We did Before Sunrise last week. And now, the sequel, the classic, Before Sunset.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

758.109

There's three different themes going on, I think. And one is that what happens if you have a second chance with somebody. The second one is how do people change over the course of a decade from their 20s to their 30s, which I think they nail with this.

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‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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And then the third one, which I think she does a really good job talking about is like, she's talking about all these relationships she's had and how each one took something out of her. Right. So when you're idealistic, when you're 23 and then nine years later and she'd been in some things and these people that she was with took little things from her that she can't get back.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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What do they do with them? And even that whole road, she went down. I was like, so I was like, I don't, this is never in a movie. What happens? You have these little pieces of yourself that you give to people. I mean, everyone who's ever dated a bunch of people thinks about that. Sure. It's like these, they're not gifts, whatever.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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These things that somebody else is just storing, you're never going to get them back.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

886.39

But is it dead inside or is it dormant? And that's the other thing. And obviously it's just dormant because it comes back to life. Can we talk about Julie Delpy though? Because we were three guys who all had a crush on her. Talk about her in the first part. But we did have the female perspective on that character in the first movie, now the second one.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

911.761

No, let's hear the female perspective on Julie Delpy's character.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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Now, we talked about her a lot. We did. But your take on that.

The Rewatchables

‘Before Sunset’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, and Mallory Rubin

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We're trying to combine it to this. Don't, we have to save it for pull my intestines through my rectum.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

10.775

Just be yourself, and the guests will come. Don't be the celebrity that this is their, like, sixth thing they're doing.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, what's funny is in Hollywood that's happening too. They're battling this story that started going around that they didn't write it and that William Goldman rewrote it. He was one of the great screenwriters.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I wonder if that's happened where on both coasts people are like, yeah, they didn't do it. They didn't write it. Fuck these guys.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, Affleck's not on the set of Armageddon going, I really miss just being at Dunkin' Donuts working on a scene. I love Microsoft Word, you know? Well, there's so many touches that you can tell, like two guys from here wrote it. But one of the things they talk about a lot is they wanted to write an awesome part for a famous actor. And that's the Sean character, the professor.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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So they had Morgan Freeman or Robert De Niro, like, in their head as they're writing that character. And they wanted him to have a couple big monologues, which he ends up having. And they end up getting Robin Williams, who... You know, starts out on Mork and Mindy. That's how I got to know him, which was a sitcom in the late 70s. But then has this whole movie career.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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He's in Garp and Birdcage, Good Morning Vietnam, Mrs. Doubtfire, Dead Poets Society. But then this is what he wins the Oscar for. And I still feel like Dead Poets might have been, what was the right Oscar for him?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Like 55-45 for me between Deadman. I did some percentages for you, Rousseau.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No, we're doing Good Will Hunting because we're in Boston. We got this Coolidge Corner movie theater. We're doing heist movies and Boston movies this weekend, including this one. We did this on the rewatchables first year. We didn't have a lot of the categories yet, so we're doing it again. And for me, I'm going to do Boston movie Mount Rushmore quickly. I don't know if there's a right answer.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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those cardigans that he's wearing you just become immediately more sensitive and thoughtful this has been my dad's trick for like 50 years he's he's got three cardigans on all the time yeah yeah now that you mention your dad it's like robin williams is a pd version of your dad what do you have for the oscar for robin williams well i like you kind of grew up with him as mork

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It's his first big part. Yeah, we're going to do it on rewatch.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Minnie Driver got nominated as well. She's really good in this. She had a nice little run. Four or five movies in there that were great. Gus Van Zandt, you want to do a little 30 seconds on this, Sean?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You know, I had this coming later, but let's talk about this now. So this is a what if for this movie. He shoots a whole day of footage with them for a screen test and then goes with this whole thing about how he wants Mexican car thieves to be in it. And they're explaining to him that that wouldn't really feel like Boston. And he's all fired up about it.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, this movie won two Oscars. Robin Williams won for Best Supporting Actor, and The Boys won for Screenplay. Damon, fourth person ever at this point to get nominated for acting and writing in the same year. Sean, can you name the other three?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But for me, the verdict, Good Will Hunting, and The Town have to be in the three. And then I think the four spots are arguable. Is there anyone that has to be in there for you, Russelo?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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We're all friends here. I'm just correcting the erroneous internet facts.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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That's a tough one. And you know who brings that? Harvey Weinstein. Yeah. Well, we have two big Oscar debates that come out of this.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, we do. Buckle up, Ursula. It's coming up next! Jack Nicholson wins for As Good As It Gets. The other nominees were Matt Damon, Good Will Hunting, Robert Duvall, and The Apostle. Peter Fonda and Uli's Gold. That was the other choice for tonight. And then Dustin Hoffman for Wag the Dog. And all these years later, I just think Damon should have won. Agree.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And As Good As It Gets, which was really good when it came out. It was James L. Brooks, and it was a thing. Helen Hunt got nominated, too. I just don't think it's aged well as a movie. And it makes me mad that Matt Damon didn't win. CR?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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He got outshone. I think it's a good take. He should have won. Affleck did not get nominated. Robin Williams wins. And he beats all of the people in Boogie Nights. Burt Reynolds got nominated, but everybody else who could have gotten nominated. Wait, do you agree with that? Well, he beats Robert Forster and Jackie Brown. Sean is very partial, too. I'm not as partial.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Greg Kinnear in As Good As It Gets and Anthony Hopkins in Amistad.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I did, yeah. Yeah. There's John Quincy Adams, I think, in that film. Honestly, just rough luck for Burt Reynolds. That's brutal.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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By the way, that's going to happen to Draymond Green with Defensive Player of the Year this year. He's favored right now. That got Priscilla.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Well, this got nominated for nine Oscars. Elliot Smith nominated for Best Original Song for Miss Misery. He's all over this movie, and it's awesome. And Danny Elfman lost for Best Score to Titanic, because Titanic just obliterated everybody. $10 million budget made $225 million. Roger Ebert. So every time we do rewatchables, we read Roger Ebert's review. Three stars.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Maybe he had some bad Mexican before the movie and just wasn't a great frame of mind.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, he said the film has a good ear for the way these characters might really talk. Might? The outcome of this movie is fairly predictable. So is the whole story, really. It's the individual moments, not the payoff, that make it so effective. It's a borderline fuck you, Raj. I gotta be honest.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, when we did The Departed, we had a lot of thoughts about Nicholson's Boston accent, which was from the Bronx. What part of New York was that accent actually from? I know this is a big thing for me and Rosillo.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No, but I'm saying three and a half, I think, is about as low as you want to go.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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We're doing the categories. I have a special category. I didn't tell you guys. The single most Boston thing about this movie. Our nominees. The Overhead of Fenway Park. Morgan's I Hate L.A. T-shirt. The old school red line trolleys that they kind of brought out of retirement because those were done. A big scene on the beach in Boston Common. The L Street Tavern.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Bunker Hill Community College, which by the way looks literally, literally exactly the same. Like exactly, to a T. Eating at Kelly's and the Tasty. Yeah. Very 90s. Very 90s. Sean has a really cool Red Sox jacket. I want to shut that out. I thought Will's apartment looked very Boston. Dunkin' Donuts is just omnipresent, which I appreciated. But here's our winner.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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This is an Affleck story from the oral history. And I'm just going to quote him. One night we took Robin to the L Street Tavern. Robin wanted to get a taste of Boston. I remember thinking, this is a fucking mistake. And then it just turns into a mob scene. Guys got really drunk and wanted to fight me because I had my hat on backwards. That's the most Boston thing about this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It's on my son's list for two years from now. Can you get in state? The 99's right there. Yeah, 99. $10 chicken parmesan. In 1998. It was great. We're going to do the categories. Most rewatchable scene. The playground fight scene.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Hey, come on. Remember me? Really good slow motion battle. We got a little Baker Street from Jerry Rafferty.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The Harvard bar scene at the Bone Arrow. Here's what I wrote in my notes. Ponytail guy comes in talking market economy in the southern colonies, and then in all caps, we're Scylla's dream encounter in 1997.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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How many times did you and Ponytail guys circle each other when you lived here?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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The seesaw tilted correctly. Uh, CR, this is a hall of fame friend scene. We're using all four guys perfectly.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Howard. Howard's in. No, Thomas. Who is the Thomas? Howard's in. Gordon Wood. Gordon Wood. Wasn't there a Thomas, too? I don't know, man. I have a big doc here.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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My boy's wicked smart. There's some really good quotes in here, and then it leads to the do you like apples scene, which we could tackle now or later.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Right. So it was like a double win. Came, he came back for more. See, I had this for nitpicks for later, but in real life, they beat the hell out of this guy at two in the morning. I mean, they just did.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, the last 15 years, I feel like we've gotten better at it, especially movies like Gone Baby Gone and The Town. They actually started using locals, so we're doing better.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Next scene. Possible rewatchable candidate. Will's first meeting with Sean when, uh, he breaks down the painting and it's really awkward. And then he says, maybe we're married the wrong woman. Watch it there, chief. I will end you. I will fucking end you. Uh, trivia for this. Gus Van Sant painted the picture. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Possible Great Shock Ordo in here, CR, for this? For the light on his face? For the way he filmed Damon with the lights?

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Will's second meeting is the next one because we get that incredible Robin Williams monologue we mentioned. We get Boston Common. Great to see it. Build a statue! Well, there's a big thing about building a Robin Williams statue near that bench. This is another great Boston fact.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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When they filmed this scene in the Common, there were 3,000 people just far enough away so they weren't on camera watching. And this was the heyday, and I was living here when this happened, of when they were filming stuff here, it was like the coolest, like they filmed Blown Away with Tommy Lee Jones. Great accents in that, yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And everybody was out of their minds that they were filming it here. And then the real world house was in the fire station in Beacon Hill. And it was like, oh my God, the real world. But everybody, those kids were in trouble.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No, I was still here, but the kids were in trouble. Because they would go out and people would be like, ah, real world, huh? That's 100% true. When they were here, everyone just fucked with them. Yeah, it completely fucked up the show.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Never. Did you apply for Real World Boston? I didn't. I kind of wish I had.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, Chris and Sean didn't believe me when I was telling them the Combat Zone stories. I had to send them pictures. Sometimes it'll be on Twitter. I'll be like, Combat Zone photo. Different times. I mean, this place, it used to be Avalon and Axis. I was more partial to Avalon, which I think you were too, CR, right? Access was like a little bit of a different crowd.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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This monologue's great, and I'm not going to read it to the crowd, but I think this is some of Williams' best work ever.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It's really great, and I hope they give him the statue. Next one, the Game 6 story. We get Carlton Fisk footage, which, I don't know, it's been... Does the Fisk Homer still matter to the younger people out there? That's great, because it was one of the most important things of the 70s if you were a kid growing up here.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But he doesn't go to the game, and he tells the story about how he had to go see a bad girl, and it still bugs me that he didn't go to the game or so.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No, this is a tough one, though. They're down 3-2 in the World Series. They'd only been in 67 and in 46. Everybody loved the 75 Red Sox team, including me. And it was the Linden Rice team, and Yaz was still there. And he's just like, yeah, I'm going to take my ticket. I'm not going to go. I really feel like his friends would have, like, fucking fought him.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I just... I'm trying to think, like, what... How great would the girl have been? Yeah. She would understand, too, if it was the right girl. That's a good take. Actually, should she marry him if he didn't go? It's like he would sell out the thing he loves the most right away. Yeah, I wouldn't trust him. Um... This is a short one, but next one is the, do you know how easy this is for me?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Do you have any idea? It's a fucking joke. I just love when he lays in a Lambo, that loser. And then I got to say, the last like 30 minutes of this movie is out of control, Sierra.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Like from a rewatchability standpoint, we get Skyler leaves to L.A., looking back, seeing if he's in the, nope, he's not in the airport. We go right to the construction site. Affleck gets his big moment. Then we go to Lambo versus Sean. Then we go to the, it's not your fault, it's not your fault. Then we go to the last scene and then all of a sudden see about a girl and we're good.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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No, no, I'm putting it in here. I think because that Elliot's Miss Angeles, I think when she's waiting to see if he's going to show up at the airport or not, I think that's the winner. The Affleck monologue. You've been known to write some screenplay stuff from time to time, Ursula.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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In 20 years, if you're still living here, coming over to my house, watching the Patriots work in construction, I'll fucking kill you.

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But yeah, now it's House of Blues. So Good Will Hunting, Damon and Affleck. Let's do the backstory of this. This is, Sean, one of the great Hollywood, out of nowhere, although it wasn't really out of nowhere because they'd both been in some movies, but one of the great bet on yourself moments ever, correct? Probably the greatest since Rocky, right? Yeah. Anything else?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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He kicks Carmine's ass. Don't forget about it. Carmine takes a beating.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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In the research, they said Van Zant wanted them to write an extra scene where Chucky gets killed in a construction accident. Like, for real. And they actually wrote the scene and they're like, this does not work. America does not want Chucky to get hit by a crane.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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It's like when we do the movie about how we never stop believing in Scoot Henderson. That one game that night when we were texting each other, that was the breakthrough. Same thing. Is that better as a Netflix series? Yeah, eight episodes. One thing with the Affleck scene, I thought this was great in the research.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Those are like the biggest two in the last 50 years. I was living in Boston when this was happening. Were you here then? No, I was still in Vermont. Okay. Because I remember there was an improper Bostonian that came out with those guys on the cover and they were filming it. I'm going to say it was 96 or whenever. And...

The Rewatchables

‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I mean, they worked on this movie for five years, and this was his big moment, right? Damon has the better part in the movie. They're together, and he's the sidekick, but the construction scene's his big scene, and he's building up, and then finally the day's the day, and it's like, all right, I'm going to do my scene. He does the take, and he nails it, and they were like, That was great.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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You want to do it again? And he didn't know what to do. It was like he had just hit a game-winning homer, and they were like, all right, do you want to do this the other side? Now we'll shoot it behind Damon. And he was just like, I just felt like I climbed Mount Everest, basically. But it's cool when you watch that, because that's the scene that kind of sets up the next 30 years for him, I think.

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Well, that's why those guys... Damon's so protective of Affleck, but when I did a pod with them a couple years ago, and he was so mad about how Affleck was treated after the movie, even now, when he was like, SNL did a sketch, and they made Damon seem like the star, and Affleck was like his loser Boston sidekick, and he was like, Affleck sacrificed... Like, I had the much better part in that movie, and Affleck didn't...

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Really have one. A couple other parts near the end here. The farewell therapy scene right into when Will gets his car. Cole Hauser's best moment. Yes. Yes. It's a good car. Good car. The engine's good. The engine's good. You can see the seeds of someday this guy's going to lead a Taylor Cher to the show right here. It's a good car. And then the ending. Affleck goes to see him.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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He's not there anymore. And we get the first of many Ben Affleck faces. When he does the... And he does the whole sequence. We see it many times over the future. Then Morgan jumps in the front seat and then tell him, I'm sorry, I went to go see about a girl. And then Robin Williams ad-libs, son of a bitch, you stole my line.

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You think he propelled him to drive cross-country? It's possible. Seems like it, right? What do you have for most rewatchable scenes, CR?

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It was like, these guys, local kids, took them years to get this made, and now they're making it, and they're so excited. I was like, oh, man, I hope it works out for those wacky kids. Matt Damon, and I knew him from school ties, knew Affleck from Dazed and Confused. Never thought it would work out for them. Like it did like this.

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Yeah, I wouldn't have put this as most rewatchable, but she's so awesome in the breakup scene. It really feels like he's actually breaking up with her. She's immediately devastated and just crushed by it. I have the construction scene as my most rewatchable. What's the most 1997 thing about this movie? I was going to say just young Damon and Affleck with their whole careers in front of them.

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As we get older, it's kind of amazing this thing exists. What do you have, CR?

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That's true. There's multiple payphone scenes in this movie. Good point.

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And now this became the thing, Chris, that I think, I don't remember a movie propelling two people at the same time like this.

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I don't know. Michael Mann might have been on something. Yeah. What's aged the best? I have a bunch of them. I'll turn it over to you guys, but I want to start here. Giving someone a Dunkin' Donuts coffee after you pick them up from jail. So what saved the best for me? What do you have, CR?

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Yeah, because he was struggling a little bit from an IMDb standpoint. He made that movie Jack. He made that movie, What Dreams May Come, with Cuba Gooding that you just mentioned. He was a little bit of a slump.

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The accent's kind of still... This movie changed it, man. Now Rhode Island is the state that that happens to. This PA's from Rhode Island. You got to hear him. I have a couple more. The friendship aspect, which we mentioned. The clothes, the cardigans for Sean, but really Chucky's outfits. His track suits. These track suits, and it's cheap and fancy at the same time, but it's perfect.

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Sure. That's right. Yeah, they said there's, in that oral history, the first day of shooting, they filmed some scene with Skarsgård and Robert Williams, and Damon and Affleck were watching it on the side, and they were both bawling. But, like, not, like, sad bawling, like, just so happy, because it was a five-year odyssey, and the whole backwards of the story was that...

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The top four guys in this movie, so it ends up Casey wins an Oscar, and then Cole Hauser is the star of the biggest audience-wise TV show we've had the last 10 years, and then Damon Affleck, but you rarely go four for four. It's like when you have a family that has four siblings or more, probably not going four for four with the siblings.

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Maybe go three and a half for four. You have four? I'm one of four. You go four for four?

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Sorry, Kyle. I always just make fun of House because he had two brothers and it was like, which one's the black sheep? I still can't figure it out. Affleck has a late 90s director's DVD commentary Before the era that we knew social media and the internet was really coming the way it did. And he's just on one the entire time. He's the best director.

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He's unbelievable in these. The therapist scenes are just really good. Wanted to shout those out. George Plimpton, I don't care if you put from the rough. I don't know where they came up with that. Phenomenal.

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By the way, George Plimpton. And then my last one is the girl in the bar at the beginning who starts making fun of Chucky's dick and calls it Irish Curse and a Tootsie Roll. Just on brand. Toot, toot.

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I had that in What's Age of the Worst, but I'm happy to flip it. Jerry's boundaries. That's great. The second one is better.

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There's like a year where they're in Davis Square, living there. They'd already spent their money from when they had sold it. It was in Turnaround at Castle Rock. They're trying to get it made by anybody, and they're just kind of living in Somerville, doing these other parts of movies, not knowing if this movie was ever going to make it.

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Good call. Den of Thieves Benihana Award for Scene Stealing Location. It's... Got to be the Boston Common, right? I always loved Au Bon Pain, personally. The Au Bon Pain outdoors? Great turkey sandwich. It was. Sean, what'd you... Oh, the racetrack. The dog track. The Chess Rockwell and Brocklanders Award for Best Character Name. Chucky Sullivan. Chucky wins.

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Right. Well, Lambeau, that leads to the Vincent Chase Award, named after Vincent Chase from Montrash. Are we sure this character was actually good at his job?

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And the biggest fear they had was they were going to age out of the characters. Yeah. that they were going to hit their late 20s. Now, as we know from Hollywood, it doesn't matter if you're a jet of the characters. They could have probably been 45 and played this. Well, wasn't one of the other things with Castle Rock that they wanted to be DiCaprio and Pitt?

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Butch's girlfriend award, weak link of the film. I already talked about giving up the game six ticket in my issues. What do you have, CR?

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He's in the breakdown lane. Right. He's right before Sturbridge.

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There was a DiCaprio pit thing, and then there was a big thing with the script that the original script, this whole second part of it was a spy caper.

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And he doesn't have Skyler's number, so nobody knows. Oh, that's great. That's a great point about the car, because... You know, they patched some parts together so it could get him from South Korea to Cambridge.

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Like, those guys would be like, fuck him. Like, I'm not. I think Cole Hauser was like, wait a second, he's driving that car cross-country? Yeah.

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lawnmower engineer yeah right they thought he was just going to cambridge yeah what do you have a weak link sean um i think it would have been more fun if marky ricky danny terry mikey davy timmy tommy joey robbie johnny and brian actually existed oh we had a scene with them all right what's aged the worst uh harvey weinstein being the hero of the movie tough one awkward.

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And, like, the government's after them. And a couple people gave them the note, like, just lose the spy shit, man. Just do the first part. Do the first part of the script of The Therapist. And then that became the movie. And then it became Unqueer, who it seemed like Rob Reiner maybe had that note. Yeah, Goldman had the note too. William Goldman too.

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Damon's hair with the frosted tips. A 1997 made sense, or it just looks horrible now? You'd have to tell us, man. I didn't see a lot of that in Boston. Don't remember that look. Right? I don't remember that look that much. Backstreet Boys. But that feels early for Backstreet Boys, though.

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Damon said, even in oral history, he said, maybe I would have done that one differently, the hair. Herbstree had frosted tips. What else do you have for the what's the worst here?

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That got old after a little while. Yeah, that's a what's aged the best and the aged the worst for this movie. The it's not your fault joke was one of the better pull it out of a movie with certain real life jokes.

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Name-calling. It's Sean versus Sean violence. Going to Kelly's for takeout just because Kelly doesn't exist anymore. We got a Gerald Lambeau hitting on college students in multiple scenes and then calls Minnie Driver's character and she's like, is this Professor Lambeau? Hangs up on him. Yeah. So they made him super creepy as a way to like, oh, we got to give him some color and some depth.

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CR, smoking indoors at bars. I don't know if it's a what's aged the worst. It's what's aged the most fondly for me. Was there a better title for this movie?

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It's a double entendre. Well, I was thinking the janitor. If we go like the accountant.

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Yeah. The janitor. That's a little slower. All right. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. Hottest take award. Named after the time CR thought Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford.

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One of the funniest things with this movie was as Castle Rock is basically just giving them the runaround, they get so pissed that these guys are doing that. They write this whole scene where I think Will Hunting gives Lambo a blowjob. Yeah. And they just put it in there to see if anyone was reading it, and nobody would mention the scene. And they were like, these fuck guys aren't reading it.

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No? No, they described it as, like, Midnight Run crossed with, like, a spy movie. And it's like, that sounds awesome. I would have seen that in the theater. What do you got for us all?

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That guy? Mine's not even that hot, but I just think this is the best Boston accent ever by Damon in a movie. Like, by a star. Wahlberg's got close. Is there anybody else where you're just like, wow. I just think everything Damon does, he has the right level of anger to it.

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so gibson so casting what ifs we did most of them but uh so gibson develops it for a few months and he's also working on some other stuff and then matt goes to him and says look man we're getting too old if this keeps going we can't play these parts is there any change you'd let it go and give back to us and gibson said yeah i'll do that

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and then he probably drove to Moonshadows and said something offensive to a cop on the way home. But that was a great moment for him. And then Kevin Smith declined, and then Ben Stiller also declined. The Ben Stiller Good Will Hunting movie, that kind of broke my brain.

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Best that guy word, it has to be the ponytail guy, Scott Winters. Who ends up in Oz as the Geico guy's brother. Ryan O'Reilly's brother.

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Just an all-time that guy. Two of the great Irishmen of all time. Dion Waiter's a word. I'll give you the following possibilities. Carmine? Herve, you might remember him from Juvie. It's Harmeet Kareem. The Boston girl who made fun of Chucky's Tootsie Roll. George Plimpton, or the one I think is the winner. I think Cole Hauser is eligible because he doesn't have a lot of lines.

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And then finally, when Harvey Weinstein read it for Miramax, complicated character these days.

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Who are you talking to? Of course, I saw it in the theater. Right, but was there an extra moment of like... I never gave up on Cole Hauser. I just never did. I always liked him. Yeah. I always liked him. I always would see him be like, oh, Cole Hauser. And then Yellowstone happens. That's that. Recasting couch director of City.

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I'd like to combine this with what role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played in Volunteer Him for Harvard Ponytail Guy? Playing him as Freddy from Talented Mr. Ripley?

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I just think the movie's better. Or his character from Sensible Woman. Whatever. Yeah. Yeah. You guys down with that? Did this movie have a porn parody? What do you guys think? Oh, it did. And it was called Good Will Humping.

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Oh, Jesus. I'll work it out later with them. Half-assed internet research. Will's address you can briefly see when they go to see the other custodians. It was 357 Q Street, 3D in Southie. There you go. Um... Damon started writing this movie in a playwriting class in Harvard. It was a 40-page script. And then eventually Affleck developed it with him. And the rest is history.

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Cambridge scenes, Bow and Arrow, The Tasty, and Au Bon Pain. Those are the three. And a lot of this was sadly filmed in Toronto, the interior shots. Minnie Driver's character, Skylar, named after Damon's college girlfriend who left Damon for Lars Ulrich. Yes. Metallica drummer. Before filming began.

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Affleck said he gave two notes. I don't like the chess thing, because they had a part where Will Hunting played chess. He's like, get that out. Dude, what else are you going to be awesome at? You're like a smart guy. And he's like, in the blowjobs, they got to come out. And Damon Affleck was like, we've got our guy. This is it.

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That's a tough trade for her. Borderline Luka Doncic level type of trade. She could have bought in on Damon going up. Instead, ends up with a drummer from Metallica, one of the most dysfunctional bands of the late 90s.

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Apex Mountain. Sierra, you want to tell the audience what Apex Mountain is?

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That's not what it is. 375 movies. It's when something had the most juice in its career it ever would have had.

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That's disgusting. Yeah, that sounds terrible. So Damon and Affleck know. Would you go Red Line Trolleys? Has it ever been used better in a movie?

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Oh, we have this coming up. I'm picking Nets. We have some Nets. No one had found out prior to this? No. No special... He never advanced in a class, nothing. Nobody noticed. Minnie Driver? I think so. Oscar nominated?

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He read all the way, and then it became, the big thing was Damon got The Rainmaker, which was a John Grissom book, when those Grissom books made it, and they told Harvey, and he was like, oh, my God, those movies make $100 billion, and then all of a sudden they're making it. So five-year odyssey for this. Do you want to go through some of the elements of a Boston movie, Rosillo?

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Her Juice Mountain is right around here. Juice Mountain sounds like it would be opening on Newberry Street. Don't make fun of me because I am just trying to explain it. Juice. I like Juice Mountain. I have Juice Mountain closed. Please stop saying Juice Mountain. Please. Stellan Skarsgård? He's been in a lot of stuff.

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Oh, yeah, Ronan. Yeah. Dune Part 2? I like that. Dune Part 2 is great. Hey, what would you say for Miramax for Apex Bound? Is it probably next year or Shakespeare and Love? We don't. Let's not. I don't. No, for when they had the most power in the movie business. They wanted Shakespeare and Love. They wanted Best Picture. Don't get all pissy with me.

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We get to Mass Pike the entire end credits with Elliot Smith for like four minutes. Now it's the Tulane part, but... Yeah, but what was that shot?

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My last question is for the audience. Would you go Boston Common, Apex Mountain for a movie, or would you go... I call it the Common. I call it the Common.

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Well, they know what I mean. I'm sorry, guys. That's the end of the show. Thank you for coming out. Thank you, Philadelphia!

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What are you looking for in a Boston movie? What are the essentials for you?

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I think Young Hanks could have pulled off Chucky, potentially, but I think it's Cruise. All right, the Sean Fantasy Award for a stealth homage that gives every movie nerd a criteria orgasm.

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Sorry, that was awkward. I should have done like a fist pump point thing. Thank you to Loon by Atlassian for sponsoring this. Thank you to the Red Sox for winning today. It's like destiny. So we've done a lot of these live rewatchable shows. We have never come to Boston, Massachusetts. I want to introduce to you, well, he's from Philly, but it's fine. Chris Ryan.

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Wow. And we should have mentioned, apparently Affleck ad-libbed like half of his lines in this movie. Like, they would just write... In the script, it would be like, Morgan comes downstairs, and then he would come down and just have a baseball glove and make it seem like he was just jerking off into the baseball glove. They would never have any idea what he was doing.

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All right, we're going to pick some nits. So nobody else in this MIT class could solve the math problem. It was really hard. You're not asking a bunch of math whizzes up here. So Lambo's like, I'm going to create this problem. I'm going to put it on chalkboard and make you guys all feel like shit and then try to fuck you later. That's his plan as a math teacher. That's a great point.

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Yeah. I could do this easily. Can we use that one? Second meeting, they go, he's like, instead of the Will and Sean, he's like, let's go for a walk. And then they go from Bunker Hill Community College all the way to the Common. That's like a 10-minute cab ride if there's traffic, maybe like 15 minutes.

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like he's fucking broke right he's living in that building the first shot of the movie is like that old lady in the rocking chair you know it's a good point you don't want to live there well when they start writing the script the internet's not even the internet yet so maybe they didn't they could have zagged he could have gone to the library you know gotten on one of those computers what do you got so would casey or cole hauser call ice on mini

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Small nitpick. Kohlhauser's character is named Bill. Could we have done better? Could we have gone with like a Murph? Like a Fitzy?

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Would you call him Billy? Would you call him Mickey then? Yeah, something. Here's my big one. So the end of the movie when Affleck has this big scene and Will Hunting's not there. The guys are going to pick him up to drive him to work. They just gave him a fucking car. Why are they picking him up? He has a car.

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Also, he has a car, and they pull up, and then Chucky's amazed that he's not there. His car's not there. You just gave him the car.

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Sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. So all that cast would be interesting. What was the last Before Sunrise movie called? Before Midnight. 30 years later, would you be interested in any of these characters? Catching up with Will Hunting in his mid-50s? Yeah, for sure. So what's he doing?

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Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, Long Legs, or Wilfred Brimley in The Firm? What do you have, C.R.?

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CR, you lived here for five years. What do you need in a Boston movie? What are the essentials?

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Okay. I'm going to bring you in, though, for mine. Okay. I did want to mention Tony Romo watching the ending going, he's going to say about her, girl, Jim. He's going to say about her. Since we're in Boston, I think we have to add Felger and Maz to this. Do you want to be Felger or Maz? No, I think you know what you want to do, so I'll be Maz. All right.

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I think Maz goes, I don't know why we consider him a genius for solving one math problem, Mike.

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No, and then Felger goes, you can jump. I guess I'm doing both. Because I was like, man, that's a high-pitched Felger. You're going to have to go even higher? Do you want to be Felger?

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I think Felger says, I mean, he got lucky. He had a chalkboard in the hallway with nobody looking. Can you do it every time, Tony? We have no idea if Will Hunting can do that. We don't know if he's an alpha dog. He can't do it, Tony. Nah. I just feel like they would disparage his credentials at mass somehow.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Yeah. We don't know. He hasn't won any playoff games. He didn't get the Eastern Conference Finals or the M Finals.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Great. Great shot. I got Damon. Probably unanswerable questions. Russillo, Chucky or Jem, better Boston buddy sidekick?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Chucky. Okay, I agree. CR, what happens if Affleck and Damon switch parts?

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I mean, he's basically... We've learned, yeah. He's a genius in that movie.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I don't think it's as good of a movie, but it's an interesting thought experience. Just feels weird the bigger guy's good at math. Fair. Any other unanswerables? We did a lot of them.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Oh, my God. Fantasy lost the crowd. Jesus. I wrote a couple things down that I think all the Boston movies have that worked. They used the city, like different parts of the city. It's always a staple. To get the accents right, you got to bat at least 90% with the accents, right?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, and it's a weird one because we lost the series. Yeah. And yet it felt like we won because of the Fisk Homer, but they lost the next game.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Tough times. The Zawantanay Award would happen the next day. I have Chucky marries the girl who made fun of his Tootsie Roll. I think they end up together. I think Morgan gets banned from the Fleet Center for five years. Yeah. for something to happen in a pre-season game against Toronto.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And then, so, see how I had Will spends three weeks in California, punches out a Lakers fan who made a Patino joke, drives back to Boston, car breaks down in Cleveland, never seen again. So we're basically great minds. Yeah. What do you have for Zuan Neo? Anything? What happens the next day?

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They don't realize. Like, I know you think you're going to win. Right. Right. Sean, anything? Skyler Dumpson for Steve Jobs. Oh, I like it. Comes the first lady apple. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie?

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Yeah, I had that too. Coach Finstock Award. We're almost done. Best life lesson. Um... It's not your fault. But sometimes it is.

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Yeah, he's never run into him since he was five. Like, that was the day. I have, you could be one of the smartest people alive and still not know a damn thing about life is the message of the movie. I think bet on yourself with Damon and Affleck is kind of the bigger lesson from the movie, right?

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These guys were like, they were like, we're starring in this, we're making it, it has to be, we have to be in it, and they do it. And then don't answer yes or no if somebody asks you if you like apples, I think would be another life lesson. Just say I'm out. No thanks.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. I had the town. I mean, it's then Affleck's the star, we're in Boston, we get to be in Charlestown again.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, we have a rule for this is the last category, who won the movie. We always say it can't be two people. I don't know how this can be not the two of them. I think it has to be, right? Especially when you go watch the Oscars speech. They fucking did it. It took them five years, they made the movie, they made it happen.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Williams stumbles with it. He loses the race. Wins the Oscar. Unbelievable performance.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Oh. Gambling's legal in Massachusetts. I have multiple Red Sox bets. I think they're going to be good. Including the 90 plus win bets, which was like plus 136. I also, the NFL overrunners came out today, which you cover on my podcast. Pat's seven and a half fucking over. I did that. We're not going to be four wins better? I mean, what the fuck? We're going like at least eight and nine.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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They're saying Diggs' ACL is untorn now? Who's they? Who's they? His ACL is solid?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Producer Craig Grobeck, who's here, his counter, because I was saying I wasn't totally happy with the Diggs signing. He's like, you don't have a receiver, was his counter. I'm like, I had no counter to that counter. So I don't know. I'm super excited for the Pats. Oh, so Tatum, Drake May, who's number one right now? I don't know. Pritch, please.

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The R's kind of come and go. Hauser, I think, knew that he didn't have the accent, so he just kind of, he's more of a mystique charisma part. But I think for the most part, they nailed it. Another thing, you just have to involve the Red Sox or Fenway somehow. There's an overhead shot of Fenway in this movie for no reason at all. Yeah. But you just have to do it.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, episode 10. Thank you to Loon by Atlassian for having us. Thanks to House of Blues. It's really cool to be here. I mean, I was here when it was... It was called Avalon, but they did a good job with this. We almost did it across the street at MGM. I kind of wish we had, but I thought it was awesome. Hey, well, because we had a lot of people that wanted tickets, so I felt bad.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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But thanks for having us. No, this was perfect. I like seeing the people up there. I just wish we had more people. CR?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah. Yeah, so come down to ringer.com slash events if you want tickets. We're probably going to talk after a couple of the movies, but we're doing Heat, Goodfellas. Good Will Hunting is actually Saturday night.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And I hit Alicia. I think the bars are crucial. All the best Boston movies. Like, The Town has that. They filmed an old Sully's. That was great. The bars in this movie, the L Street Tavern, like some of those, the Cambridge ones. And then I think you have to capture... it just has to feel the essence of people that live here. And I don't even know how to quantify that, but you know what I mean?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Like there's people in this movie that just feel like Boston people that you know that somebody from Boston made it. Does that make sense?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Here's two things they missed, Sean. Well, these are things that happen in Boston movies but don't happen in real life. The weather is always awesome in a Boston movie. Nobody is ever cold. It is just early May all the time. And then there's no traffic ever. You just get anywhere you want. The T is empty at all times. Doesn't matter what time of day. There's always a parking spot.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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And the common, you just walk around, grab a bench. Nobody's going to be there. Nobody's walking around. There's no ducks. Those are the four things that we have. Sean, let's talk about 97%. One of the great movie years ever. It is. Where we launch Affleck and Damon. We have Titanic. We launch Leo and Winslet. We have peak James Cameron. Jack Nicholson wins the Oscar. Robin Williams wins an Oscar.

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And it just feels like Boogie Nights is out there. It feels like something's shifting. What's shifting?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Yeah, it's like in the NBA when we just have, like, a class. Yeah. And you're like, oh, man. Like Scoots class? Yeah. Like this year's class might be like that with all the guys in the 25 class. Or you have like in football, you have like the quarterback class. You just look at the guys in 97 range. It's like, oh, man. We were loaded.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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tortured Jets fan, host of the big picture, Sean Fantasy. For the first time ever, the four of us, with this guy, Ryan Rosillo. Yeah! So we were going to do a live rewatchables about Good Will Hunting, but Priscilla wanted to do two hours on Stephen A. and LeBron, so we're offering... Were those guys going to work it out? What's happening?

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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Do you remember your Damon Affleck thoughts in 97 heading into this movie? I don't.

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‘Good Will Hunting’ Live From Boston With Bill Simmons, Ryen Russillo, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

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I had, so he's in School Ties and plays like the most reprehensible preppy NSMite probably ever captured in a boarding school movie. And he was so reprehensible in that, that when you would see him after, you'd be like, oh, that guy from School Ties, he's a fucking prick. And the Will Hunting thing, finally, and losing a million pounds for Courage Under Fire.

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Affleck, to me, was just the dazed and confused guy. And then he was in Chasing Amy, which I thought he was really good in. But, you know, it wasn't like there was a huge history, right? Do you have a history with him, Ursula? No.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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All right, Kyle Brandt, you're basically, you were kind of semi-off this week. Kids were off from school. Wasn't really a rewatchables taping week for you, but you had to move stuff around because Val Kilmer passed away this week. People, I don't think it was a massive surprise because he'd been sick for a long time, yet it was a total surprise because Val Kilmer is no longer with us.

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Super Jim Morrison. Like, once again, dips into past roles. It's a little Jim Morrison ish.

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That's my three teeth, right?

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That's the one I wrote. His name's Bruno, right?

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I wrote that. He looks like a Danish hairdresser or the fifth BG or both.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I had all those written down. I don't want to sleep on first time we see him. He's the gimp from Pulp Fiction climbing the building. We're in the same outfit. He's Verbal Kins. Yeah. He's got that. I also enjoyed Russian Maid Lady. Sure.

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I honestly could have spent another 40 seconds with Russian Maid Lady with him. And then Ivan Tretiak lookalike guy. Yeah.

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I like that. I mean, so in the research, they openly say this because this is what he was all excited about. They didn't want him to do as many disguises because they felt like it was stepping on Mission Impossible. It was like, you motherfuckers, you were developing this before Mission Impossible. But Kilmer was like, more, more, more disguises.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And they were like, no, no, Les, you're on the corner. I feel like every scene he could have been somebody different.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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So Roger Ebert, I won't step on his review later, but he wrote, I've been trying to put my finger on the movie's key problem. And I think it may be that Kilmer plays the saint too realistically. If you take a step back and really think about James Bond, you'll realize that he is mad. So is Batman. So is the Phantom.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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They live in fantasy worlds in their own creation and bring a certain style to their delusions. The Saint still harbors ordinary human emotions and that will not do. I thought that was interesting. He's- It is. Val Kilmer almost plays it too straight. And yet, I think that's why this movie is such a good hang because I don't feel like-

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I, you know, I, I'm never like, I never have to like be too involved in fucking character arc, any of that shit. Get one flashback to the girl following her death in the orphanage. Other than that, he's just having fun stealing money from people.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And we were texting. We had talked about doing The Saint forever, which I don't think would crack... Most people's top five Val Kilmer list, but for us, it does. And we'll get to that in a second. But Val Kilmer, big picture, 20,000 feet overhead. What are your thoughts?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. The old TV show remake era, we have to mention really quick. Sure. This is a stretch of two Brady Bunch movies, The Flintstones, Adam's Family, Charlie's Angels, The Fugitive, Beverly Hills, Hillbillies, The Saint. There was more.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And for some reason, I feel like if you look back, even though the 90s were amazing for movies and we had all these great stars and directors in there, this is also Hollywood telling us they're starting to run out of ideas.

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They were like the same. Sure. Let's okay. Greenlit. Let's go. Sounds. And they're just doing this with basically everything that came out in the sixties, seventies and eighties.

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Yeah. It almost seemed like the thing that hit the hardest was the casting. even before you came out the movie, it'd be like, so John Goodman's going to be Fred Flintstone. I'm like, okay. And then you would go see the movie. I remember one of the weirdest ones was lost in space, a TV show that wasn't even like, uh, You know, I don't I'd never felt like that show held up.

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And then all of a sudden they're making it. And I think like Matt LeBlanc is in it.

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Yeah, like I remember in the 2000s, I was really, when I finally had like just enough juice to even get a meeting with anybody. And I was like, you got to remake The White Shadow. Got to remake The White Shadow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you realize like, if something hasn't really existed for 25, 30 years, why do you even have to remake it?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Because ultimately the people that are going to carry a movie or a TV show are in their teens or their 20s. And they have no history with the show. If you remade The White Shadow right now, nobody would fucking know what it was. So I felt that way with The Saint. I didn't know what The Saint was. It was like, oh, Roger Moore in a TV show in the 60s. It was like, great. I wasn't there.

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I don't know what that is.

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Yeah. Well, The Saint apparently inspired 14 movies. This was the initial thing which started. It was all these books in the 20s written by Leslie Charteris. Um, just wrote dozens of novels. So no different than Bosch or some of these ones that exist now. And, uh, and it kind of peaked with the sixties TV series, which was with Roger Moore, who then became Bond.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Um, another piece of this movie, our girl, Elizabeth Shue. Let's go. Um, you know, after Karate Kid and Cocktail, there's not a lot, not a lot left to do. Like she wanted to ask her, so what? Like, Oscars over here, best actress, fine. Other people have won best actress. Not everybody has gone toe-to-toe with Macchio and Cruise in a five-year span. I don't know.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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When you fly that coast to the sun, Kyle, I don't know what's left for your IMDb, your career, whatever. But she wins the Oscar. And this was one of her big movies after. The Oscar was really weird with certain actors. Like Adrienne Brody is another one. It's actor or actress. Sometimes that's not what you think it is.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And in this case, she makes the trigger effect, the scene, deconstructing Harry and Paul Meadow are her next four movies. And the moment kind of comes and goes. But this was the memorable one.

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And there's other stuff from that year, too, that's even worse. So he was in the 92 Oscars. Here's what we have for that one.

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Hopkins, Silence of the Lambs. Not going to argue.

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De Niro and Cape Fear. No argument.

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Robin Williams and the Fisher King. Pretty good. Nick Tolti, Prince of Tides. Maybe. I don't know. Warren Beatty and Bugsy. But Bugsy's just infuriating. Bugsy's all over the place in the Oscars. And it's like, really, Val Kilmer? He sings all of the music as Jim Morrison in the doors, not to mention everything else. So I think that was the one for him that he got boned on personally.

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No, that was before. He made it through a movie with Oliver Stone, who I don't exactly think was Mr. Drummond from Facts of Life.

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And it's also a really good Elizabeth Shue movie. It sure is. I thought she's a really important 80s, 90s person. We also have Ivan Tretiak, played by the bearded bad guy from Taken 2 all those years later. Still evil. Younger, but just as evil.

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I love that guy. I love him. I'm not even going to say his name because I don't care what his name is. I just know him from Taken 2, but he's been in 40 things.

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And then his son Ilya. Yep. Who's also really good because he has a sleazy ponytail. Yes. He's got a cocaine watch. Didn't even know those existed. Oh, yeah. But most importantly, an evil cane. Do we just not do props enough with our action movies? I don't know why. He's running around with the cane. He's using it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It's almost like you would use it if you're walking on a tightrope crossing buildings. A balance beam. You need that balance thing. But the cane, I guess he can hurt people with it. It's made out of metal. It's never explained. He never talks about it. What is it?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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At least if you're going to carry the evil cane around all movie, I need you to do some nunchuck stuff with it. Or, like, be able to flip it around and, like, just be a little more intimidating. He's carrying it. It's like, is this guy disabled? Is he doing this so he can get a better parking space? What are his reasons?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You know, I haven't revisited Batman forever in a while. It is kind of crazy how loaded that cast was. They basically, they basically 2024 NBA dream team, the Olympics with the cast. We have, you mentioned Tommy Lee Jones and, and Carrie coming off 94 when he had the three monster movies. Yeah. Nicole Kidman's in it, right? As she's doing. And then Chris O'Donnell was like, basically. Big deal.

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going to be Matt Damon. And then Matt Damon's like, fuck that. Market corrects him with Good Will Hunting. But the five of those people were pretty massive.

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Yeah, it's like a career ender.

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So the biggest thing from this movie and the legacy after it came out, other than I kind of liked that movie.

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The music was amazing at the, at the time. It's amazing now. There was a real moment, and I was a big, like, I was a big, at the same time, simultaneously, like, hip-hop rap, but also, obviously, grunge.

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And both of those things are exploding at the same time, and I loved it. And I wasn't really... The electronic scene... I was about a year late too. And I had a couple of friends that were in it. And there was a couple of clubs in Boston that had it. And I was like, I don't get it. I don't get it. And this movie kind of got me into it.

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Um, that we have orbital does the theme song, which I think is one of the better action theme songs. Um, It's got the sneaker pimp song, Six Underground, which I think is so good. Anytime you hear that in a movie, it's so good. I love it. Daft Punk does Da Funk. Moby has Oil One. Underworld Chemical Brothers and Fluke is in it.

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And then Duran Duran's in it as like the old guys trying to play this music. And there's more stuff in there. But there was a specific moment. And I think this is the only movie that hit it correctly. Because by the late 90s, that moment kind of moved into something else. And it's all in there, and I think it's a big drawing card for this movie. This wasn't your music. You were more Pearl Jam.

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Yeah, it's weird because he could vacillate. He could lead a movie and be on a poster, right? He could be on Batman. He could be on The Saint. He could be on The Doors. But usually there was some sort of gimmick that came with it. And he was really at his best in a movie like Heat.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It was a really important CD in the mid nineties. Yeah. Because, you know, we didn't have Spotify back then. We didn't have Apple. We didn't have anything. And it's like you had to buy CDs that had as many possible songs that you might have liked as possible. And this one was great.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. Above the Rim, I'd throw it too. Directed by Philip Noyce. who did Dead Calm, a really good movie with Nicole Kidman that made her not a star, but put her on the radar for everybody. Patriot Games, Clear and Present Danger, The Saint, and Sliver with Sharon Stone. So he was busy in the 90s.

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I have some thoughts on him for later. Let's take a break, and then I want to tackle the plot really quick.

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All right, so I watched this movie with my wife who really likes it. She loves Val Kilmer. We've watched this movie a couple of times. I think we might even been dating when it was on pay-per-view or maybe was on HBO, but I was always into it and she just likes Val Kilmer. So we're watching it and I look over and she's smiling and I was like, you like this movie? And she's like, I really like it.

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I don't know what it's about, and I don't really care. And I was like, that's perfect. You should have been on the movie poster. I'm going to try to explain what it's about. All right, go. Just for the people who have watched this and kind of sort of understood. So we see Simon when he's dressed like the Gimp. He steals a microchip from a Russian oil company.

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I always felt like if you're thinking of him like an athlete, you think of like Randy Moss, somebody like that, that Randy Moss could be on the wrong team and go four and 12 on the Oakland Raiders. Or you could put him on an awesome team with weapons everywhere and And then everybody's like, oh my God, Randy Moss is amazing. And there's other actors like this.

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He's caught by Tretiak, by his son, Ilya. All right, who's Tretiak? He is an oil billionaire. Yes. And this plot, which is really hard to figure out because they don't have like somebody actually explaining it to you.

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He's withholding energy from the Russians and they're like having the worst summer ever because he's trying to make the president look bad because he wants to overthrow the president.

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Yes. So he gets this microchip and then Tretiak and his son hire him instead of just killing him, which I guess is a nitpick. They could have just murdered him. But instead they're like, no, we're going to use him. He's going to try to get this cold fusion thing from us and then we'll be able to use it. And then he's going to kill Simon. So Simon figures this out.

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he learns that this guy, instead of selling the cold fusion formula, he's going to sell a fake formula to the president. The president's going to have this rally and he's going to show how the cold fusion works. Then it's not going to work. And the Russian people are going to go, what the fuck? I thought you said we had cold fusion. We've got to overthrow you.

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And now Tretiak is going to take over. Who he doesn't realize is the saint He has 12 hours and he gets the real formula in. So when the president shows them how cold fusion is going to work, it works. And then Tretiak, who's been saying it's not going to work, he basically becomes the Nico Harrison in this whole thing. And he's like, you traded Luka Doncic? We fire Nico. Fire Nico.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He's the fire Nico. And his career's over. And that's how the saint wins. That's what happens in this movie. I watched it 15 times before I understood it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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So it actually on paper sounds great. You just did a very good job explaining it. I don't think if they executed the narrative as well as maybe they could have. And if you're going to nitpick maybe one or two more set pieces... Like that, you know, one of the best scenes that we'll get to is when they're running along the river and he has to go in the water. Yeah.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It's like two scenes short of stuff like that. But this is what makes me so mad why we didn't have the Saint 2. Because I think the Saint 2 almost would have been like John Wick 1 versus John Wick 2. Where John Wick 2, they're like, we've learned John Wick 1 worked. Some stuff didn't work. Let's fix it for John Wick 2 and it'll be incredible. And I think that Saint 2 would have been incredible.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I think there's a Brad Pitt case a little bit too, where he's just way more fun in movies like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. But with Kilmer, I thought what was so weird about him, super handsome. Like anyone I've ever dated has loved Val Kilmer. So he had that, but really quirky. And just kind of hard to put a finger on.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I really do. It's like a huge missed opportunity.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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owned by the same studio and there's this whole alternate universe where the saint and mission impossible kind of crossover in a movie and we get maverick versus ice again maybe they're trying to do the same thing yeah why not uh hey this movie had a 90 million dollar budget and made 169 million so it wasn't a failure that's another thing like this movie made money why what the fuck what are we doing

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Rick Rasevich is there for no reason at all. Goose is there. Roger Ebert, two stars. He called it a James Bond wannabe, which is an irony since James Bond, in a way, is a saint clone. Says the fight scenes go on too long and are not interesting. The villains aren't single-minded enough. What does work is the chemistry between Kilmer and Shu, who seems to have a certain charm.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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There's a Siskel and Ebert TV review of this, and Siskel goes, Siskel hated it. He goes, I think the disguises are a big mistake. I think it becomes the nutty saint, if you will. And my response to that, instead of fuck you, Raj, is fuck you, Gene. Yeah. Nobody asked you. Yeah. Sorry to like disguises and, and locations and action. Fuck you.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I don't know what you're talking about. The nutty Saint sounds great. Watch that right now. Most rewatchable scene. So our choices are Moscow microchip heist, which is the Gump from Pulp Fiction disguise, but then bushy mustache, English accent disguise, where he's basically like a hockey coach. It looks like he's like coaching the Buffalo Sabres in 1996. Kind of, kind of a look. Um,

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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But he's... This is where we find out Trediak Gas and Oil Industries. You know we're in good shape there. We get the Russian National Anthem. I know that's always... Always brings it to your feet. Yeah. You think of Nikolai Volkov. Red October. Yeah. Red October. And we get to jump off the roof into the pit. Sure. Which these movies will do...

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It's just the truck is lined up down, you know, and there's just enough padding that you can fall 16 stories and it's fine. I don't know if it works this way in real life, but I'm not going to question it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It's pretty badass. When he takes off his mustache, you think like it's going to turn into a parachute. And it's like, no, he's just, it's just, he's just fucking with him. Next one. Long hair Val, your favorite character. What's this guy's name? Thomas Moore.

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And I think that's what, so like he, I don't really know what he's doing in that part. I just know I like it. The Saint, I'm not even sure he's good in The Saint, but there's something compelling about watching him the entire time.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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So he seduces her at dinner.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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There's an uneaten entire plate of spaghetti and meatballs in front of Shu for the first part of this. I don't know if my hot cold fusion scientist was really a spaghetti and meatballs person. I don't know. I'll allow it, I guess. But she never touches it. And then it all leads to seduction, seduction, seduction. Abrupt departure. Yes.

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I'm going to go smash a wine bottle against the wall for no reason. I'm going to blade like I'm Bruno Sammartino in Shea Stadium in 1978. Just blading. Bleeding. And that's just too much for her. She has to have sex with him.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I think it only works in Phantom Thread, the Paul Thomas Anderson movie with Daniel Day-Lewis. Oh, yeah. It's the only other time that works. Yeah, it's... There's some sort of you're preying on a woman who's very professionally busy. Yes. But has no self-esteem with men, which I think is the way they drew this character. Yeah.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Smoking hot, but nobody's ever hit on her because she's just, all she's doing is the cold fusion every day. Hasn't had time to meet anyone. And this guy just hits it. By the way, I skipped over a scene with her. That's one of my favorites. Dr. Emma Russell answers cold fusion questions.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And then there's other movies like The Doors and, you know, some of the other Tombstone, the classics that he's been in where you're just like, God damn, this guy's great. Top Gun. Comes in just like all-time DN waiters every time he's in. So he could do everything. And yet you're right. It wasn't like the type of career of a Cruz or some of these other dudes that could just go for 35 years.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The raw natural power just waiting to be harnessed. You could drive your car 55 million miles. It would be the end of pollution. She's going and going and I'm just like, I'm in. This all sounds great. At the same time, I still feel like You know, Brian Flanagan. Yeah. Talking about cocktails and dreams with him. I still feel like it's a 10 out of 10 for her as a career apex.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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This is pretty good, though. Her laying out Cold Fusion.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He liked it. Well, here's the thing. I think they were, they were, they probably look at it like, all right, this lady's specialty is nuclear cold fusion.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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These people probably aren't the greatest hangs. And how do we excuse the fact that she's also beautiful and fun to hang out with? So what's going to be her vice? They'll be like, oh, I can see why she hasn't found anyone. I just think they made her try to be super insecure. She's doing the thing, right? And I guess on the positive side, mission accomplished.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Because she looks like she's a 13-year-old giving a seventh grade project.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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She's like, you guys, this is about Cold Fusion, but Judy Blume's one of my favorite authors. What are we doing? All right. A couple more rewatchable scenes. The Mouse Race Club. Let's go. Anytime there's evil Russians, you know there's going to be a fun club. And you know they're all going to be hanging around a table with their arms around hot Russian women.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And there's going to be some sort of weird gambling event. And in this case, it was a mouse race. And I got to say, I was kind of in. I know ESPN's trying to come up with counter-programming. Fuck yes. Pickleball. And what's that one? Cornhole. Mouse races, I was really intrigued by.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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We're going to race rats.

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I love this scene. And then we have Simon dressed up like Trediak going, you know what the hardest part of being you is? Pretending to be bad in bed. Whoa. Next one is Emma confronting Simon after he's escaped. And she somehow figures out right away where he is, which we'll get to in picking nets. But she says, I would have given them to you if you asked, being in the cold fusion.

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There was a shelf life to it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I like calling it cold fusion. I don't even know if I'm right. Is that what it's called? Yeah. Cold fusion, right? Cold fusion. Yeah, exactly.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Why doesn't Starbucks use cold fusion ice instead of doing the cold brew? Why don't they add like a cold fusion? Because it doesn't, it doesn't even necessarily exist or be the right thing. We have a cold fusion macchiato.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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With three, with a triple nonfat vanilla. It sounds like something my daughter would order. Okay. Here's my favorite scene. I'm just going to tell you this is my most rewatchable. Simon and Emma escape from Ilya and his crew. They watch out of the river and they're running alongside the ice on the river, which is just fucking cool. It's definitely one of those, how did they do this?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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How did they not fall in? And then Val has to go in the water. I think this also gets great shock. Order of word. Val's, I think, going to be dead in two minutes, maybe 30 seconds in that water. He's looking up. He's looking up again. She pulls him out. Really good stuff. We needed like two more of these scenes in this movie.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah, Cruz is doing this for real. And there's 17 doctors on hand because he can only be in there for three minutes and 22 seconds before his body will shut down. But Cruz wants to do it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah, well, we also get the Emma stripping to warm him up. Great gimmick. I have hypothermia. Can you lie on me with just your bra on?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And then escaping the waterlogged tunnels, heading to the embassy is good. Get a good little embassy run.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Not quite an angry run that you've patented because she's a little sloppy. Ilya comes in for the grab, but she gets in. And then we get a little Russian roulette with Val during that scene as well. I like when we do a gimmick that's named after the country that we're actually in. I think they get bonus points for that. And then last one I have is a cold fusion parade rally.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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That's the actual ending question mark. Sure. That's how they end this movie with a cold fusion rally.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Okay, good. Because I'm happy to discuss it now.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. So it's a big, it's on YouTube and it's in Russian for some reason. It's not an American. I don't know how it got out. Um, but it's a whole action thing where Kilmer goes in and it's like people are getting shot and it's building, things are blowing up and, uh, Ilya dies. It's, Kind of seems more like a Mission Impossible movie and I have no idea why they didn't include it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The only thing I can think of is did they decide they didn't want the saint to actually kill anyone in this movie? Cause he doesn't kill anyone in this movie.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Well, how they ended it, it made somebody like my wife happy. She was just like, I really like this movie.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I like it ending in the cottage. So what do you have for most rewatchable?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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What's the most 97 thing about this movie? I'll give you some options. Go ahead. The soundtrack we talked about. Yeah. A movie not realizing that Mission Possible also existed as they were making it. I think their choices are a lot different. Every scene involving the internet, like all of them. My personal winner is the Nokia 9000 Communicator.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Which was a cutting edge phone in 96. It was a handheld, but it was also a clamshell pocket computer. And it had a little keyboard and apps. And I did not have it because it was expensive. And I might not have known anyone that had it, and I might not have ever seen it until this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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We could have done a rewatchables month of just how they got the internet wrong with movies in the 90s and Disclosure and this movie and The Net. There's a four-year window where they're like, the internet, we got to work it in. And they have no idea what they're doing with any aspect of it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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New category, just for you.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The Fatal Attraction Guy Gets Framed Award for original ending that the test audiences hated so much they had to reshoot it. Okay. In the original version of this movie, Dr. Russell collapses and dies during a lecture with about a half hour of the movie to go. And what happens is... Ilya, she's doing a lecture and Ilya comes from behind and stabs her with his evil cane. And it's got poison on it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And that's how it goes. And then the last 30 minutes is the saint just wreaking havoc on everybody John Wick style. And the test audiences did not like it. And they had to do two giant days of reshoots over eight days in December 96. And then another eight days in January 97 that cost two million bucks as they turned it into what you just mentioned.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And that's why I think that Russian ending was in there because he's getting his revenge.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Well, we just did the Good Will Hunting one. And Gus Van Zant was saying that he wanted Affleck to die in a construction accident. right before Will went to see about a girl and they, they like wrote the scene out and they're like, this definitely doesn't work. Let's get rid of this. Yeah. Bad ideas.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. Well, anyway, so that happened. And then that leads to another category that we never get to, um, give out that often named after Elizabeth shoe. The Elizabeth shoe. The Elizabeth shoe is an Oxford electrochemist award for most ridiculous casting. Uh, Emma Russell. She's hot. She has a heart problem. Yep. And she's making big strides in cold fusion. Um,

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

326.84

Yeah, and he could also be good in movies that weren't that good, which was another weird superpower he had. I really like Ghost in the Darkness. Goldman wrote it. Val's great in it. And Michael Douglas is horribly miscast, which Goldman wrote a whole chapter in his book about. But Val's good. He makes sense.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I wrote down I love when hot single women with unbelievable jobs can't resist a movie hero who's obviously horrible for them. Yes. It works every time. I'm always in.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The Peacemaker had one of these too. I think Nicole Kidman might've been in two movies where she had crazy jobs.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I love it. It's so rare that we get to give out the award for the actual movie we're doing. We're gonna take one more break and then we'll do what's best. All right, what's aged the best? I'll start us off with crazy, wild, wild west 1990s Russia, and then post-USSR Russian villains.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Hollywood's just trying to feel its way out here in the mid-90s, and they eventually settle on, let's get a guy who looks like the eventual taken-too bad guy, big beard, kind of handsome, charismatic, and he's going to have an evil son with a cane. Let's go.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I do love that too. Using Catholic saints as aliases. Yeah. Great work. They have a Ku Klux Klan Knights moment out of nowhere. It's so weird. I kind of like it. They were like, hey, are these guys evil enough? When we do the reshoots, can you just do a quick scene? Just work the Ku Klux Klan in there. Why? Just do it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He's got this weird, I think he's like a British accent or South African accent, whatever it is. He always has to bring some sort of weird wrinkle to it, even in Heat. You know, the hair is a little different. He's like volatile, but also hard to figure out, but kind of cool.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I have watching someone put on cool disguises. I just enjoy Russian bad guy. Cruise. Love it. Opening credits produced by Robert Evans.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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She had the kind of lips that wouldn't quit. Uh, apparently he was trying to develop this for years. And when they finally ended up making it, he wasn't involved at all. They paid him off to go away, but he got to keep his credit.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Bad Guys with a Prop, we mentioned. Cold Fusion. I think it had a moment, which we'll get to later. And then Runs to an Embassy, I think is my favorite. Wood Sage is the best. When the embassy is right there and it's like 75 yards, just somebody sprinting to the embassy. What other aspects of life are like that? You have 75 yards to get there.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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If you don't get there, you're basically getting killed, but not really. You're just getting captured.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I'm an American. It just seems to work. It just seems to be the secret key to getting into the embassy.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I have no idea. Why couldn't a Russian pretend they were American and get into the embassy and then start killing everyone?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Any more What's Edge the Best? Because I want to get to the Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Simon breaking the wine bottle and then blading San Martino style. That would be my pick, but I do want to shout out the uneaten spaghetti and meatballs in Russia. Why is that your order in Russia? Is that in Russia or is it in England? I lose track. Or England. Wherever she was, it was not a spaghetti and meatballs area. Or she was in England, I guess.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Is it like shepherd's pie or something? Fish and chips? Yeah, fish, like you're in England.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And then the way he works the gun, like they always say how like military people would study how well he was using a gun and that. The doors, he just disappears into Jim Morrison. There was some stuff, the SNL account that I really like on Instagram. They ran all the things from his SNL that he hosted in 2000. He's amazing. He was like one of the best...

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You know, that's the kind of thing my mom would have picked up. I probably should have made her watch it. So that's my bad. We should have had that earlier. The Den of Thieves Benihana where it's seen still in the location. I still think it's that river unless you have somewhere else.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Kid Cudi pursued happiness award for best needle drop. It's either the pumpkin song or sneaker pimps, six underground. Um, I like how they weave in the sneaker pimps. So I'd probably personally book.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The funny thing about him. Yeah, totally him, him, uh, blasting pumpkins, uh, Billy Corgan and Val Kilmer together probably would have lasted about four minutes before one of them offended the other. That's true. Two of the all-time. Be careful around those guys, guys.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The Chess Rockwell and Brock Landers Award for Best Character Name. I mean, Simon Templar is pretty good, but I really enjoy Ivan Tretiak. I don't know. That guy could be a Russian mob boss. He could be the best goalie in the NHL right now. He could be the person who overthrows the government. He could be a wrestler. What can Ivan Tretiak do? I think he might be in MMA as well. Right.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He's fighting Pereira next week. Yeah. It's like he didn't want to take the fight with Ivan Tretiak because he's a ground game guy, but he's going to do it anyway.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. Butch's Girlfriend Award, weak link of the film. What do you got?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Is it better if he's just doing Tom Kaczynski the whole time?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Like arrogant, like just super arrogant spy guy with like frosted hair?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I agree. I had a weak link in this similar area. Val Kilmer, Master of Disguise in this movie.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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You can recognize him every time. There's not one disguise where you're like, that's not Simon Templar. And those British police, they're like, same build as our suspects. Yeah, it's like, no, he's definitely... There's a couple that are just basically like, his hair is longer or shorter. What's aged the worst? Do you need the first seven minutes in the orphanage for the back setup of...

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It sucks. And it's like, okay, if you want to give them the superhero origin backstory, I just need more information then. So this girl fell to her death and this is why you became a thief? Yeah.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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This is definitely a start the movie seven minutes in on. It's on a bunch of places like Paramount all over the place. But I would I would start at seven minutes in the Internet in 97. We mentioned as an age, the worst. Philip Noyce said afterwards that he made a mistake casting Val Kilmer and that he should have chosen Russell Crowe instead. And I just want to tell him to fuck off.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He chose correctly. Maybe direct a better movie. Maybe this is why your career hasn't gotten that great the last 28 years. Maybe look in the mirror a little bit.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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How about this? I love both. You're standing for Val. You're right. It's Val Week. Listen, we've done proof of life on the rewatchables. If you want to know how I feel about Russell Crowe, you just go there. That was one of the four most stunning movies we've done. I love Russell Crowe. He would have been great in this movie.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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But I also think it's an important Val movie because all the reasons we talked about at the top, it's such a weird movie. If Russell Crowe's in it, it actually has a chance to be... a better movie that's probably not as memorable?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The Rewatchables, brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. You can get this podcast as a video on Spotify. I would highly encourage you to do so. You can also go on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel and see a bunch of old Rewatchables that we've done, including ones with Kyle Brandt, who's here today. Val Kilmer passed away. We're going to talk about one of our favorite Val Kilmer movies.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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And then we mentioned this earlier, but Kilmer constantly pressing for more disguises.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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But Paramount was nudging him off because they really liked that gimmick from Mission Impossible. I don't know. Hurts my feelings. Any other What's Age the Best? Because we'll move on.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Great point. Rafael Hanna, Rubenek Partridge, overacting award. I honestly couldn't find anything. I think there was some underacting.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest takeover. I already gave mine. So if you don't have one, we can move on. Or do you have one?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah, Cruz felt like he got a boner under the water there. They were really kind of going at it.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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I think she- Wow, you really did some scouting for this.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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He's going on the flight attendant. I don't like you because you're dangerous. You're dangerous. Do you want decaf?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Great one. Casting what ifs. We'll go through this quick. Mid 80s, Pierce Brosnan, allegedly attached, didn't work out. 94, we have Robert Evans, Steve Zalian writing, Sidney Pollack directing. Ralph Fiennes offered a million dollars. To be in it and pass.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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Yeah. And Ray Fines actually, I have it because it was in, I went and found the piece where he kind of shit on it. He said, this is in a premier magazine, 1994.

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He's red hot. Quiz show's coming out. He's into band. He's like, yeah, I turned down the saint. Quote, we've all seen the sort of sophisticated, smooth tuxedo gent working his way from gambling tables to sports cars to helicopters to beautiful women in bank vaults and villains with funny voices and mustaches and mountaintops and grease or whatever, says Fiennes. I just think it's been done.

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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It's boring. How about this? Fuck you, Ray Fiennes. Double fuck you in this episode. Right there, buddy. Gene Siskel and Philip Noyce. Triple crown of fuck yous. Why are you shitting on things that I like in movies? Who invited you to the party?

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‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

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That's all you need to say. Sorry, your little fucking snooty career. You didn't want to jump from a helicopter to a casino table with beautiful women and villains with a bad mustache. Sorry, buddy.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4140.323

I'm glad he didn't win the Oscar.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4149.648

I didn't believe it. So here's who I believe. So they definitely, Noyce had Mel Gibson. That was for real. And they developed it for a couple months and Mel Gibson decided he had just spent a bunch of time away from home for Braveheart. Didn't want to do it. Passes. Hugh Grant meets with Noyce. Didn't like the director's approach. Passes. Hugh Grant? And then after that,

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4173.706

It's like Kenneth Branagh, Schwarzenegger, all these. I just don't know what. I don't believe in it.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4191.192

I don't see it. Val Kilmer then turned down Batman and Robin. Made it easy for everybody. Best that guy word. Take a two guy we mentioned. I've never seen Ilya again, so he's been, but in the crew, face scars guy who's been in a couple other movies who has the big scars on his cheeks. And I swear, I don't even know where he's from, but I swear I've seen him in other stuff and he jumped out to me.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4244.437

It might be Ilya because I don't know if I ever saw him again, but I would have immediately said Ilya.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4260.53

You don't see it. Dion Waiters award. Emily Mortimer plays the stewardess.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4268.036

And she's just a minute and a half in and they had been together in the ghost of the darkness. And I think she liked Val. So this is the case of like Val Kilmer, obviously not a bad guy. Some people liked working with them. She came in and flirts with them for 90 seconds and is out. So, um, who did you have for this?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4288.917

Go get in line. We're out of fuck yous. We've already handed three fuck yous out. Ray Fiennes with a big one out of nowhere.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4298.163

Jesus. Who asked you? Beautiful woman, bank vaults, villains with funny voices and mustaches and mountaintops in Greece or whatever. Or whatever. Yeah. Oh, that sounds great, you dick.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4315.706

Get out of here. Yeah, go make your little Vatican movie. The little big twist at the end. Good luck. All right. Next one is the recasting couch director. What do you have for this?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4339.867

So you have nothing? I wouldn't change the city. How about actor, director? I have director. I've done Philip Noyce because he can fuck off.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4355.162

How about young Fincher? Let's bring him in.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4358.823

Don't do the game. Do this instead. Then do the game after.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4364.585

He's doing the game, but maybe he could have snuck out the Saint before the game, like right in between.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4379.55

Oh, Tony Scott. That's a great one.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4385.356

What do you have for flex category?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4431.879

Great one. Half-assed research. Voice of the radio announcer at the end of the movie is Roger Moore.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4440.231

Who knows if this is true, but this was in some of the stuff written. While filming the scene in 97, the crew was allegedly instructed to avoid making eye contact with Val Kilmer entirely. I never believed this. Anytime I see this in the research, I automatically don't think it's true. This is why it's half-assed. I'm just trying to think of like, imagine like you're doing good morning football.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4462.423

Yeah. Or like, let's say you're doing the Sunday Eisen show.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4467.409

And they're like, hey, we had talked to the crew. Eisen doesn't want anyone making eye contact with him. When he's coming through the hallways, you just got to look down. That's insane. Anyone who's actually been in a set or a crew, anything like that, the amount of people you have to pass by constantly, how do you tell them to look down when they see the star? I've never believed this.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4512.367

Fuck. I had always heard rumors about that, but... I can confirm. That's a bar.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4528.238

It's a great feud. Make people take sides.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4538.18

No, I have complicated feelings about it. I know. As you know, because it's ESPN, the alleged worldwide leader. A May 96 Entertainment Weekly set report cited Val as being volatile on set, missing call times, and putting out a lit cigarette in a crew member's face.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4557.481

Elizabeth Shue and producer Mace Newfield denied the misconduct, praised his professionalism dedication and pointed out how he eventually worked seven days a week during the reshirts, which were three months for the movie's release. We'll never know what actually happened.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4574.494

I'm going to say that reeks of bullshit.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4586.578

We're going to take one more break and we're going to do Apex Mountain. Apex Mountain. Kilmer? No. Right? It's a no.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4598.984

I think Batman's his apex.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4607.051

Elizabeth Shue won an Oscar, so this can't be it. Disguised movies, probably not because Mission Impossible, Mark, I corrected it. Post-USSR Moscow movies? I need to see a complete list.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4629.222

The electronic music scene in the 90s. I'm going to say this is right around the apex. This was the one that really, and especially Orbital I had, Sneaker Pimps, definitely. Moby's really feeling it right around now. All these people. It's all happening for the whole scene.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

466.88

And he could do comedies. Yep. He could do weird accent movies. He could do weird part movies. And he would say over and over again, whatever movie he was doing, he needed some sort of challenge, some sort of thing that made it interesting to him.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4666.937

I have one more Apex Mountain. So if you have any, rip them off. No, no.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4675.98

Yeah, this is going to hurt.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4680.701

Cold Fusion. I think this was Apex Mountain and here's why. I did some research and here's what the research basically came with. This is where it came out. All right. This is from Wikipedia.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4696.018

There is currently no accepted theoretical model that would allow cold fusion to occur. It's the entire premise of this movie, including the ending. And apparently it's just not a thing that can actually happen.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4735.598

Cruz or Hanks? Obviously Cruz and it kind of hurts to give this one to Cruz to begin with because he market corrected the Saint. Scorsese or Spielberg?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4774.366

I think with all the reshoots and rewrites, probably moving some stuff to Rome would have been pretty easy. The Oxford cold fusion specialist is just now in Rome.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4791.259

Aaron Cheney on the side. Um, what role would Philip Seymour Hoffman have played? Yeah. The cold fusion specialist is where I landed. The guy who has 12 hours to basically make it work.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

480.745

And it's funny because in the 90s, when all the magazines kind of showed up, people covering the industry just got way better in all these different ways. The internet's coming in the late 90s. But there was an awareness I had, just somebody living in Boston who liked movies and knew nothing other than what I read of like, oh, Val Kilmer's kind of difficult.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4838.262

A cold fusion scientist is going to tell some random handsome guy with a bad accent that she met three minutes ago that she's figured out everything with the future of the world at stake. Just volunteering this.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4863.05

I have a bunch. So you rip off yours and then I'll go.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4902.403

Yeah, he probably has some weird saint thing that he can like put something like a little like saint tack, just push it against and the boner goes right down.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4934.912

I had that as well. First of all, if he's this amazing state-of-the-art spy, you probably don't want to leave a calling card of just Saints. Anybody can crack that one in five names. Simon recovers from hypothermia in about 12 minutes.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4955.587

Pretty sure you're in the hospital overnight and they're feeding you intravenously and trying to bring your body temperature back up. He's fine. Clothes are still wet. That's better. He waltzes into the Russian president's office at one point. And it's like, I'm an American. And the guy's like, I just believed this guy right away, even though he somehow got in here. Nothing, not afraid.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

4978.922

It's very strange. Not enough disguises that we have mentioned before. How does he keep changing this many disguises when he's on the run all the time? And where does he keep them? What's in that backpack? Yeah. He's got wigs, mustaches, hair pieces. Everything is like state-of-the-art perfect.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

500.095

That became a thing with him and it kind of added to just the mystique of him. Like he does Batman once and he's signed to do other ones and they basically like let him out because he was kind of a pain in the ass. By the mid-90s, Pain in the ass, Val Kilmer. And it was kind of like hard to say what was real and what wasn't real.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5016.113

He just gets nothing got damaged during any of that. He's in cold water at one point. And then this is my big one. So Emma has a heart condition. We've established this right away. Oh, yeah. It's the first thing we see is she's grabbing for pills. She's running around the last half of this movie like she's fucking Jackie Joyner Kersey. Those heart pills are gone.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5040.969

The heart condition has been solved. She's just flying around. She's... She's Zola Budd just sprinting.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5058.841

Jesus. Ridiculous. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable. We cover this. Definitely a sequel. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Doris Burke, Sam Jackson, Nell, Byron Mayo, Barney Cousins, Tony Romo, Harley Mays, Chris Collinsworth, Daniel Plainview, long legs, or Wilford Brimley in the firm. What do you got?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5116.666

I love it. I'm going to add Gus to the main thing. You've done it now three times.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5124.013

I was going to do, is this movie better with Peter Schrager fake laughing to a Mike Greenberg Jets joke in mid-October? But I need to workshop it. I need like another month.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5160.35

It's going to be a while for me. Just one Oscar. Who gets it? So probably the theme song. Like the score.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5185.37

Deep, probably unanswerable questions. For me, ties into the Zewatne Award for what happened the next day. Yeah, sure. How long are these two lasting? She's just solved, killed fusion. He's a fucking really weird guy with clear damage from an orphanage who likes to wear disguises, who doesn't seem to have any sort of loyalty to anything. And now they're just in a cottage together.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

519.152

There was an Entertainment Weekly story about him in 96 that kind of hammered him. Premiere had this piece about him in 97. I have some quotes, but EW in 96 called him Mr. Unpopularity. Mm-hmm. He was saying how he was committing six million a picture and nobody liked working with him, which I don't think was totally true.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5208.027

And it's like, hey, should we adopt a dog? Have my eye on an Irish setter.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5231.795

But she's never kissed another man before as we find out in multiple scenes. So maybe she feels indebted to him.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5254.241

Unanswerables. We've covered everything. I don't have any other ones unless you have any.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5279.784

So I, I actually do have one. I look at my document correctly. Cold fusion saves Russia.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5287.165

Keeps the president in charge.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5291.407

What are the ramifications globally of a warmer Russia? Yeah, that's tough. Where are we now all these years later? Does Putin even take over? Oh, he takes over. Where are they going? I think he grabs it anyway. Does he hoard the cold fusion for himself? Does Russia become more of a superpower? Like, are we speaking Russian right now? Is Ivan Drago, does he win in Creed 2? It's just a lot of ramp.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5318.515

Does Trump ever get elected? Like we could just keep this Peter Schrager event up on get up fake laughing at a Justin Fields joke in mid October. Like what, what, what happens?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5357.207

Coming up next. Can LeBron use cold fusion to play 82 games next year? We're going to find out with Monica McNutt. Can Doug Prescott win the Super Bowl? We talked to Peter Schrager and get up.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

536.351

But he was coming off from 85 to 96, Top Secret, Real Genius, Top Gun, Willow, The Doors, Tombstone, Batman Forever, Heat, Ghost in Darkness. And then it starts to get weird right around The Saint, the movie we're talking about, because he's doing Island of Dr. Moreau. which I might be the only person in America who likes that movie. I've never actually seen it. It's batshit. It's batshit.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5375.986

Great job over there. These jokes are all out of love. What piece of memorabilia would you want or not want from this movie? Obviously, the cane would be just a huge win.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5387.07

You're the only other person who would be excited I had it, but the original Nokia phone, I think, would be pretty good.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5411.445

you know, I didn't write this down and I should have, and it would have been a great, probably an answerable question. Cause I thought it when he did it. And then I just forgot. I must've been distracted.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5421.253

How do you get the blade to come out of the boot? Is there, is it like, do you have to tap your heel a certain way? Is it like a little button attached to it? I've never understood how the bad guys can make the thing come out.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5436.801

Do you have to tilt your foot to the right? Like, what do you have to do?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5462.072

But his knife was even better. You could remove it out of the boot.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5469.984

I don't like a Nike in my boot.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5473.005

Maybe Nike will start making them.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5475.406

The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson. I narrowed it down to either if you have an idea that can save the world, don't put them in cocktail napkins in your bra, I think is a good life lesson. And then change up your aliases. Don't stick with the Saint gimmick. If I become a spy, I'm not just going to use dream team basketball player names. It's like, today I'm Carl Malone.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5499.571

Tomorrow, I'm Christian Leitner. We saw there's a Kevin Love on a flight to Moscow. It's like, no, I'm not. You're not going to be able to solve my aliases. I'm just going to use different aliases.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5519.274

You're doing it that way. You kind of want to get caught. Like, what's the upside? The upside is you guys are so stupid. I was using saint aliases the whole time and you didn't figure it out. It's like this weird arrogance.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5542.218

I'm using get up partners of Peter Schrager.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5552.762

We're just going to have to have him come on and do one with us. He's probably not allowed. Double feature choice. Mine's controversial, so you go first.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

556.787

It's the craziest. I was trying to convince CR to do it for rewatchables, and even CR was like, I don't know, man. It's like you're offering him plutonium. And he's doing the scene. But there's... This is from the premiere in 97. Opinions about Kilmer swing from pro, parentheses, artist, to violently con, disturbed, with demanding and difficult somewhere in between. He's aloof, though he's shy.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5590.557

I'm the only person who likes this movie. I have nobody to do it on the rewatchables with. And the only reason I like it was because it was on that pay-per-view channel and I had it on all the time and I became fascinated by it. And just the concept of this island where they were basically mating people Humans and animals. And then these hybrid kind of creatures were on the island.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5612.169

But then Marlon Brando's there and it's the end of his career. It's falling apart. He's just fat and crazy in every scene. And then Kilmer's in it with this look like, what's wrong with my career? Yeah. I think you might need to give it one more chance.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5635.407

Is that the guy who became friends with Pedro Martinez? Is it the same guy? Not positive. Yeah. Or it's like his brother.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5647.289

I don't think I might have to solo that pod. I might just have to do it myself. Like I did with Castaway during COVID. I might just have to do the self Dr. Moreau.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5664.634

Well, I was mailing you pictures of Billy Jacoby this week, trying to get you properly excited for that. We know that's coming down the road. We're definitely doing just one of the guys this spring is happening.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5681.778

It'll happen. All right. Who won the movie?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5692.95

Thanks for doing this on short notice. Thanks to Jesse Lopez and Craig Horlbeck for producing. Don't forget, you can always watch these on video on the Spotify platform and you can check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. So next time you're on, probably just one of the guys, something, we're going back to the 80s. We've done too many modern. We're not modern people.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

57.6

Not a movie you probably expected, The Saint. It's next.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

5713.276

Let's go back to our favorite decade. Kyle Brandt, great to see you as always.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

580.505

He's a liar. He's terrific. He brings out the worst in everyone. You just have to know how to handle him. And then a quote from Tom Sizemore. Never had I heard so much crap about an actor I had such a good time with. It's all bullshit. He doesn't explain himself to people, so people talk. The action is the juice. Yeah.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

61.078

For an American scientist caught in a world of espionage, there is no escape. Brings her to life. And now, the man who was hired to betray her. My name is Thomas Moore. The August Christopher Martini Boris. Is the only one who can save her. If you want to live, you can leave my side. Val Kilmer. Elizabeth Shue. I love! The Saint. Starts Friday, April 4th, everywhere.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

633.847

I miss it. Yeah, and Schumacher, I don't think history has treated him kindly the last 30 years, but he was one of the people that was killing him left and right. And then John Frankenheimer, who directed him in Now and Dr. Murrow, said... I will never climb Mount Everest and I will never work with Val Kilmer again. There isn't enough money in the world.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

651.788

And Schumacher was throwing him under the bus left and right. But I think he was just a really passionate artist who never wanted to be as famous as he got. But all these dudes at the same time, they can't resist it. It's like, here's the Batman suit. And they're like, ah, fuck. All right, fine. I'll be Batman. And then you like hate yourself that you did it, you know?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

728.297

So The Saint, which was a TV series that had been bounced around. And we'll talk about how this was like a big TV remake thing. And it comes out and it does well. It doesn't do amazing, but I had always heard about it. They're going to try to reboot it. And Mission Impossible beats it by a year. Same studio, Paramount. And we'll talk about all the ways that was bad for The Saint.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

750.232

So I'm living in Charlestown in 1997 in Boston. Yeah. I had the illegal cable box, which I've talked about many times in the rewatchables. And it would have like 12 pay-per-view channels. And if it was like the Saint was now on pay-per-view, it wouldn't be like you got it on demand. It would be, it would run from two to four and then four to six and six to eight and eight to 10.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

772.215

And that's how I would watch some of these movies. It was like a train. Just keep it on. I would be like writing my Boston Sports guy column. And I would just have the Saint on the background for three days. And I think that's why I like the movie so much because the movie's incoherent. We'll go over the plot.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

789.353

The plot is like, you have to watch this movie seven times to even fully understand what's happening. It's what it is and why I like this so much. It's a great hang. This is like, I can't think of a better like airplane movie than the saint. You can, you're paying attention. You don't really have to pay attention. Elizabeth shoe looks amazing. Kilmer looks great. He's wearing weird disguises.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

813.194

There's a couple of chase scenes and it's a hang and it's over. And this is where I'm going to throw. I'm doing it right now. The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harris for it. You're going to do it in the open. Let's go do it in the open. I've said this forever and I'm going to say it now. This should have been born Mission Impossible. There should have been six of these.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

833.674

It really makes me mad. I've felt this way for 30 years.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

857.58

So I think there's other reasons they didn't really hit the full potential of what this could have been. Partly because Mission Impossible had already happened. Now, there's this whole alternate universe where the Saint just comes out in 94 and probably shifts what Mission Impossible is. Yeah. But I think the reverse happened. But if you just look at it, Great name. I know what it is. The Saint.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

877.304

Yep. Repeatable action movie gimmick. Guy who's like kind of a spy, but he's a thief and he disguises Zara's gimmick. Great lead actor. I want to spend more time with Val. Just like Damon starts Sporn. Okay, great. More Damon. We have a superhero origin story within the orphanage.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

896.777

And the girl falls to her death and it's like, oh shit. We're on location. There's action. There's villains. Mm-hmm. What else do I need? I know. We should have had five of these. I know. The Saint, Budapest. The Saint, Argentina. Like, what the fuck are we doing?

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

944.645

It's an all-time market correction. And the irony of it is you have Maverick fucking beating the Iceman yet again. He just, Maverick just, just outlawed him one more time. Same thing. No difference than Kaczynski flying in that whatever conflict we were in in 1986 and Maverick became the hero. All Kaczynski did was just kill it. Top of his class. Just, just getting wins left and right.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

969.417

Goes on, has a better job as we found out a Maverick has just way more important than country and Maverick still somehow wins. Same thing here.

The Rewatchables

‘The Saint’ With Bill Simmons and Kyle Brandt

987.336

It's fucking bullshit. I love this gimmick. There's a couple other things I love, but we got to do the disguises now. I can't wait for the categories. It's so early. I have everything written down. You guys want some coffee or something? Go, do your thing. Do your thing with the disguises.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You're listening to The Zach Lowe Show presented by FanDuel. America's number one sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA because not only does FanDuel have all your favorite player props, but now you can even check out stats and recent performance trends right in the app. Before you make your picks, just download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

103.899

The others are long over as the Suns trudge sadly to loss after loss after loss with Bradley Beal's no trade clause hanging over their head or attached to them like the stonecutter's stone on Homer Simpson, the stone of shame. Bud's out. I mean, look, did he do a great job? No. Did he annoy Devin Booker, according to The Athletic and Chris Haynes, apparently by telling him to tone down?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

1076.616

The arena is bad. It's awful. I went to a couple games there this year, and it reminded me, like, oh, boy. And the players feel it. It's like, I know. I've heard from agents. I've heard from players. Like, they feel that they are not, let's say, in a premier NBA organization in terms of all the bells and whistles. And I just don't know what the hell they're supposed to do.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

1138.257

let's talk about the play in and the playoffs real quick. Go rapid fire through these games. You got to start with warriors, grizzlies, and just the fallout of the warriors losing a Spurs game to Harrison Barnes of all people, their revenge of Harrison Barnes, which ends up costing them the tie break with Minnesota, which was your favorite game in 2015.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It was a, the Pelicans were involved on the last day of the season, like 14 crazy things happened on the same day. And all of a sudden the Spurs and the Clippers had to play each other in what we were still working together at that point.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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it costs them, uh, ends up costing them a top six seed because they lose at home in the finale and an absolute thriller to the LA Clippers who go into your thoughts.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The Clippers have been in elite team for 35 games now. Um, They are loaded offensively when they have their four best guys on the court. Their net rating is incredible with Kawhi, Norm, Harden, and Zubats. And that game and his strong end to the season culminating in that game, Harden is an all-NBA player for me now. I think he has to be on the all-NBA team.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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His shooting numbers aren't great, but I got seduced by... the raw shooting numbers and the so-so mark on twos, and he takes so many threes and still gets to the line so much that his true shooting, his advanced shooting, is above a lot of the other borderline All-NBA candidates. I just think he has to be in it, and Kawhi has been Kawhi. look, I mean, I don't know.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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We're going to talk about Clippers Denver, which I'm just like irrationally excited for that series. It has so many of like players that I've loved and loathed and loved again in the last 15 years of the NBA. Um, Everyone's waiting for Kawhi to get hurt because that's just what happens all the time. And he played 47 minutes in that game yesterday, and he had a 42-minute game leading up to it.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He's clearly confident, and the team is clearly confident. Let it fly. We're here. If you need to play 45 minutes, you can play 45 minutes.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

130.012

It wasn't great. You know, is it embarrassing that we're now on a fourth head coach in three years for the roster that 26 other teams would trade for? It's a little embarrassing. The Suns are officially embarrassing. Who's fixing this team? I mean, did Bud do great? No. I think Bud's still a good coach. What did he do so? I don't know. It's like, look, it didn't work. The locker room was bad.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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That's a Denver in seven or Clippers in six or even Clippers in seven series. Those are the only outcomes, the only picks I will accept in that series. I think it's going to be a war, but I don't want to talk about it yet. The other thing that happened with the Warriors is benching Kaminga is an all-time like, whoa, okay, in the biggest game of the year.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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the coaching staff, and look, you and I both have good relationship with Steve Kerr. I disagree with him heartily on the way that he has handled Kaminga for years now. To do that in that game, in that spot, and essentially say, all of our problems are your fault, and we're going to play Not a shooter in your place.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

1363.4

We're going to play another guy who doesn't really take threes or space the floor in Gary Payton II and still play these three-man combinations, including closing with one that have three quote-unquote non-shooters in Draymond, Jimmy, and GP2. And we're not going to play you at all? I'm tempted to say there's no coming back from that.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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in terms of team player relationship, but there's always a coming back because there's always the next game. And there's always a limited restricted free agency market that the warriors might win. But that was, even though the rumblings were starting and Steve had kind of laid the groundwork for a rotation change of that nature. What'd you think of that?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It's no secret that coming as people and the coaching staff have not seen eye to eye for years. The front office has sort of been this intermediary between those two parties higher on coming than the coaching staff, I think. But, you know, they respect Steve Kerr's Hall of Fame coach. They're not going to sit there and tell him what to do. I think they just have a blind spot.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I think this happens sometimes where coaching staffs just you're too close to it and they see all the warts and he's not their kind of player traditionally on offense. And they just I don't know. I disagree with the way they've handled it. It's been a slow burn leading leading to this. Yeah. They might need them again.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And by the way, everyone's already doing the thing where it's like, oh, well, this could work out for the Warriors. Like, you know, they win this game at home against Memphis. They get the second seed. They get the Rockets like Rockets can't score the half court. That's terrible for them. First of all, I know the Grizzlies are sliding and they can't beat any good teams anywhere of any kind lately.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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OK, fine. if they have Moran Bain and Jackson, they're, they're dangerous. Now the Wells injury really hurts them. And it hurts them in this matchup because he was the only guy who had any chance guarding Steph. And they, they didn't really have much of a chance guarding Steph anyway, particularly when Edie and Jackson are out there and they're just this behemoth team against the smaller warriors.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that's by the way, what a size, the size discrepancy between these two starting five, like Butler and Draymond guarding Edie and Jaron Jackson jr. Is just an incredible size discrepancy. And if the Grizzlies don't just match them on the offensive boards, I don't think they can win the game, but like, you're a little more bullish on the Grizzlies than I am. I think they're, I think they're DOA.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I think the Warriors are gonna win the game. The Grizzlies are obviously like, not quite playing out the string because they have two chances now and they should at least win the second one and then get rolled by the Thunder in the first round. But they're a dangerous team. The Warriors have lost them in the play-in before. And the downside is you get Oklahoma City. The upside is

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I get Houston's F court offense is a big question mark, blah, blah, blah. Anyone watched that game like 10 days ago when I'm in Thompson look like seven different guys on the court and Steph Curry could even get the ball. And they're just so unpleasant. And Shen goon beat the crap out of everyone. The warriors threw at them. They're just really unpleasant to play against.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that that's no picnic. And even if you win that series, you're coming out of it and older. relative to Houston unathletic team. That's going to get pounded for six or seven games. And then you got to come out of that and play, you know, whoever you end up playing in, in the next round out of the three, six thing, which is a war. I think it's terrible for them.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Well, look, the Warriors are a small team. They're a horizontal, not a vertical team. They get a little shot full of it at the rim sometimes when they see people coming at them. And... Houston is going to be bigger and more athletic across the board. And that's a challenge.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The Warriors have solved going on 10, 15 years now of being the less athletic, but smarter, more ball movement, more motion offense team. It's still, it's still a challenge though. And by the way, Steph was fantastic against Memphis in the regular season. He put 50 something on him the last time they played. He was fantastic in the finale against the Clippers. He had a mislay up late.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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That was a tough shot and then a turnover, but it was largely fantastic. And we're not going to do too many awards, but I'll tell you this. I'm putting him first team all NBA on my ballot over Donovan Mitchell. He has the fifth spot for me. And I'm not really sure what the case is that it should be Donovan Mitchell other than the Cavs have a much better record. Steph has him in points per game.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the numerous resources and helplines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Must be 21 or over and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show, we got a massive play-in and playoff preview.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Points per 36 minutes is identical. 27 and a half apiece. The shooting numbers are edge Steph across the board. The passing numbers are edge Steph. The advanced stats are edge Steph. Defense probably edge Mitchell. Yeah. And I just like we saw it. This is like not a very good offensive team. The Warriors have even with Jimmy Butler, just an OK offensive team to good on some nights.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Just the power of his shooting 40 percent from three on 11, 12 attempts a game moving all over the floor. It's just a complete one-of-one in the history of the NBA in terms of just the ever-present impact, all the eyes on him, all that. I just think he's had a better season than Donovan Mitchell by a teensy, teensy, teensy bit. And if you disagree, that's fine. The Cavs were the story of the East.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

191.412

So I'm going to take the L. I understood. I understood the trade for them. I was like, Chris Paul's almost 40. He's probably not the future of the team. Obviously not the future of the team. He's probably on the decline. And you know, he's a single digit score this year. I get it.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And his sort of mini by his standard slump toward the end of the season, Mitchell was was so much less meaningful than Curry's midseason mini slump because the Cavs have already had the number one seed.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

1977.56

That's why I did look at points for 36 minutes to sort of even it out, and they're dead even there. But to your point, he could have won that. The advance numbers aren't close, and the shooting numbers are not that close.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

1993.935

Edwards is right there because the minutes are incredible. The durability and the minutes are to be commended and maybe rewarded. He's second team for me as well.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2009.5

If you're playing 78 to 80 games... This makes me so happy that you're going to be Team Zubats all the way.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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There's still enough with his decision-making like that late in games or just the games where he decides, I'm just going to take a lot of shots tonight. Um, That paused me for first team, but he's second team with a bullet. And when he dials in, he's an amazing defensive player. There's nothing not to like about Anthony Edwards as a basketball player.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Like you're all, you're pot committed with Durant, which is the original sin of the whole thing is the Durant trade going bust, right? You're pot committed to that.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He's still 25-8-8 and an Ironman on a team that had a lot of turmoil throughout the season.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2182.188

I'll just do my all NBA teams rapid fire now. Let's hear it. I want to hear it. First team, Jokic, SGA, Tatum, Giannis Curry. Second team, Ant, Mobley, LeBron, Mitchell, Carl Anthony Towns. All right.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I flipped Halliburton to third team, Kat to second team. Third team is Brunson, Halliburton, Cade Cunningham, Jaron Jackson Jr., James Harden. Apologies to a number of people, Zubat, Shengun, J-Dub was a tough one, Domas, Trey Young, I talked about with, well, I'm going to talk about with Mo coming up, Siakam, and Zoo has a case.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

221.902

I was lukewarm at best, but look, once you're pot committed, you're pot committed. Let's get younger. The upside's there. Maybe he'll get healthier with his agent. His agent's son works for the sun. So maybe there's some good Intel here and it just, I got it. The swaps you can like wish in the moment, you can kind of wish away the swath. They're just swaps. You still have picks.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And I just, like, can I just give you a couple of Zoo stats to back up his case? Please. Second most post-ups in the NBA on offense. He's still more of a dependent offensive player than pretty much everybody else on this list, but much less so than he has ever been. Second to Jokic in total posts and over 1.1 points per possession, according to Second Spectrum, on those post-ups.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It's like five guys. I still don't think he presents as much versatility on defense in terms of schematically as some of the other elite, elite, elite defensive players. He's going to be all defense for me. And then you look at total isolations defended. He's 11th most in the NBA. Mobley is number one. So they're daring to switch him a great deal is what that means.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And he's 0.84 points allowed per possession on those isolations. Just an incredible season for him. He just falls. I just can't decide who of those guys on third team I could take off given that he's still...

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You know, the range offensively sort of pigeonholes you into playing a certain amount of style and the range defensively, although it's broadened, kind of doesn't pigeonhole you because you have the third best defense in the NBA. I just couldn't quite get there. But if you wanted to remove Jaron Jackson Jr. punishing him for the Memphis slide late, I wouldn't quibble that hard with it.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And I can't take off Cade and I can't take off Brunson and I can't take off Halliburton.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

241.436

They're just swaps. And now they look like, oh my God. And I've taken the L to the trade is a complete disaster. They can't extricate themselves from it and they're stuck. Yeah. And they have to trade KD. It's the least, it's the least, the most anticlimactic superstar, apex superstar trade in the NBA maybe ever is going to be when the Suns trade Kevin Durant this summer.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2453.007

Zoo's an all-time developmental success story. And he's worked... I know Zoo. He's worked really, really hard. He comes to Croatia almost every summer. He's played a lot of national team, too. It's going to be awkward when you tell me to vote for him. Well...

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2581.912

Did you believe the Babe Ruth quote from Jason Cade was real when you first saw it tweeted? Or did you think that it had to have been fabricated by one of these fake joke accounts? I didn't think the quote was real. I didn't think the trade was real.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2604.557

Does Jason kid know what the Babe Ruth trade was? Like what happened to the team that traded Babe Ruth? Does he like,

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2640.677

The 2097 NBA title. Great. Look, it's going to be great in Dallas when the curse of the trade is finally over.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2659.512

Wow. The owners? Yeah. Are you positing something afoot? I'm just asking you. I haven't thought about it. I've thought more about Nico Harrison and the owners just saying this sucks. We hate this. We're selling the team. Is that what you're positing? I don't know.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

268.374

I'm talking like a guy who's like a top 12 to 15 at worst all-time NBA player. Oh, all-time.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2699.323

The sad thing is when you were saying the one, two, three Cancun comparison, I actually thought you might be talking about the Kings.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Speaking of Zubats' foul rate, let's do a rapid-fire preview of the two series, starting with Clippers' Nuggets, because Zoo is about to face the king of the Balkan bigs, Nikola Jokic. This is, like, loaded with history. This is, like, the Nuggets acquired Aaron Gordon to guard Kawhi Leonard in a playoff series.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2738.82

They announced themselves a contender in a regular season blowout of the Clippers before Jamal Murray tore his ACL. in 2021. There's the bubble where they humiliated the Clippers. What was supposed to be their best team, their best chance at a championship coming back from three, one is the Clippers just fell all the way apart and didn't really want to be there. There's the Russ revenge factor.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2773.854

Clippers trending the right way. Nuggets trending, I guess, the right way in three games with David Adelman after firing everybody for firing both the GM and the coach.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2793.619

Here's my takeaway. You ready for my takeaway? Yeah. When the best player in the world. says things like maybe the beast gets unleashed when he's vulnerable. And after that game, after the rockets did try to win the game, they played their guys for until the game got on hand and says, after that game, something like, if we play like this, we can make a real run. I stand up as a, Oh, Uh-oh.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2816.646

Like, yeah, there's been drama. Yeah, they have no shooting when they take one of Murray and Porter off the floor. Yeah, they have a lot of defensive challenges in this series. Like, who is guarding Norm Powell? Is it Jamal Murray? Is it Michael Porter Jr.? Like, how is that all going to work? I assume Christian Brown will guard Harden and A.G. will guard Kawhi when the starters are all out there.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2839.237

Zubats has actually played Jokic as well as could be anybody could play him. They actually leave him on an island sometimes, and he does not do horribly. Because he doesn't foul. That's like the best thing about Zubats. He stays in the court. Now, I think Jokic has left something in the tank for this matchup. I'll give you a stat. You ready for a good stat?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2856.331

Jokic led the league in post-ups this year, 11.5 per 100 possessions. In three total games against the Clippers, he posted up 10 times. He just decided he didn't want to do it in these games. And now he has no choice but to do it as much as they need him to do it. Clippers have a lot of defensive answers, right? Like they can put Dunn on Jamal Murray. They can put Kawhi on Aaron Gordon.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2877.787

Harden has been good kind of moving around, just hiding himself, switching here and there. And yet I just... I mean, they have Jokic, and Jokic is the league's ultimate problem solver. I think this is going to be an absolutely awesome series that would not surprise me if it goes seven.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2902.542

I do. I think watching Kawhi problem solve, like, all right, where's Jamal Murray? Can I go at him? Harden, Hunt, and Michael Porter Jr.,

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2913.027

Jokic do we double do we shade and this is like the Clippers are a great help and recover team a great team of big rangy wings who can shade towards Zubats if he needs help but not give up the easy kick out passes and Jokic is Jokic and I do you know I mentioned the defensive challenges and I went through the matchups for for the Nuggets and

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2935.444

it, it made me a little worried that I'm not worried, but will we see more Peyton Watson in Michael Porter juniors, his place for defense? Will we see like Russ has, has guarded, has guarded Harden at times before every, but when everyone was not fully healthy and I think more, more Russ is bad for the nuggets.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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But I think there's a lot that the Clippers bring to the table here, including like the Clippers allow a ton of threes on defense. The Nuggets shoot none. So there's one, you know, not weakness, but strategic choice that can't come back to haunt them. The Nuggets are an amazing offensive rebounding team. The Clippers are number one in defensive rebounding rate.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

2975.815

What a feather in Zeus cap among everyone else. And yet you don't have my MBA. Stop. Your zoo is going to be mad. But I just, they, the nuggets have the ultimate Trump card. I don't know who I'm picking yet in this series, but I would lean nuggets in seven. I just, but, but again, like Jamal Murray just came back. Is he going to stay healthy? Is he going to be healthy?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

3027.272

Why is he eligible? Again, I misspoke about Ty Jerome last week. I checked with people on this. It's the 20-minute-a-game rule. He's not going to hit 20 minutes in enough games. I don't think he's eligible, but I reserve the final answer for when the league actually sends out the ballot.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

3119.841

Bogdanovich has settled in there after a cold start and really, really helped their team in terms of just my stock from nine years ago. Yeah. Just a lights out a lights out shooter. Yeah. I mean, I get what you're saying. And like they, they absolutely do. And Jamal Murray is not going to have a safe hiding place on defense, but you can put them on, on Chris Dunn to start games.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And when the bench comes in, there's places to put them. But if you put him on Chris Dunn, Michael Porter jr. Is guarding Norm Powell, which is not a good matchup for Michael Porter jr. And he's going to get hunted. Yeah. mercilessly in the series.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Well, you feel shitty saying it. And I mentioned his minute totals and how great he's been. It just happens in the playoffs. It's just happened too many times. It's been a half decade of it.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Specifically mid series. Like you said, just, Oh, he tweets something. So just knock on wood. Cause you know, they could, They could absolutely win this year. I don't know who I'm picking, but they could absolutely win this series.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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A big series for Aaron Gordon because the clips are going to switch a lot and one to four and he's feasted in the post against some of those matchups and they'll look for him and he's had an incredible season. I mean, now he's been in and out of the lineup too.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that's it. Yeah. I mean, you've watched his games. You and I have not decided on MVP yet, or I haven't at least. I'm starting to lean.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Yeah. Yeah. So you lose the Wiggins defense? Defense is not persuasive to me in this argument.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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how do you factor in the organizational turmoil and the team firing the coach? I've seen it spun both ways that, well, I saw Waz say, you know, you can't vote for someone MVP's coach gets fired at game 79. Then I've seen other people say for them to have won 50 games. I mean, 50 is a real number in the Western Conference and get home court in the first round.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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and he be the beacon of stability throughout all this other crap going on around him is almost a point for him. I'd lean that way a little bit, but, like, I can't. The Malone Booth stuff to me is not about him at all.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The West is absolutely no joke. Let's do a few minutes on Lakers-Wolves. Luka versus Gobert, 2.0, after the iconic shot of last year. Not going to be a great series for Gobert. He's going to have to go against some of these five-out lineups that the Lakers are going to throw at him.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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big Julius Randall series. He's got a lot of playoff demons to exercise. He's going to have to guard LeBron a lot. How Minnesota, Minnesota, I suspect will change the matchups a lot. Move Mike Conley from Austin Reeves on Austin Reeves is kind of, they're hunting him with that. Let's put them on Rui. Okay.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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We'll see if that works, but however you slice it, both Julius Randall and Ant are going to spend time on LeBron. Ant may be more than people expect. It's a power versus power series. That's kind of one of the fun parts about it. The Wolves don't really have, unless there's a Rob Dillingham moment in here somewhere, like the water bug super speedy guard who can get by the Lakers guys.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And it's Ant. It's Ant against some of the gods of the game, two of the gods of the game in Luka and LeBron. And it's just... Minnesota has got a lot. They're deeper. I think than the Lakers by a little bit there with the quality of the, there are three best bench guys. They're big, they're nasty.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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There are a top 10 team on both ends of the floor and the Lakers have Luca Donchesson, LeBron James together on a team that makes sense around them. I think it's a fascinating matchup and I would be shocked if it's not a long series.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It's going to go game to game. And Chris Finch is showing no fear about benching Conley or benching Randall or benching Gobert or benching anyone. It could be, it could be Jaden McDaniels at the four and Nas Reed at the five in, in some game. And the Lakers, you know, when Nas Reed's out there with Randall, they're going to have to rejigger the lineups. So there's a wing guarding Nas Reed.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It could be Devin Shenzo, Edwards go bear read, you know, pick, pick McDaniels, whoever like McDaniels is going to be huge in the series. He's going to be the primary guy on Luca a lot. And I think to start the series, I don't know the answers to that, but I know Chris Finch is not messing around. Like he will bench those guys.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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If the spacing is bad or the defense is bad, whatever way he's got to cut, he'll bench. Yeah.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I think the Lakers would be absolutely stoked if Ant approached this series like, I'm winning this by myself. This is my moment.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I have a Julius Randall rule for this series. If you're going to play that ISO ball, you can only do it if there's a mismatch. If we run some two-man action where now Reeves is on you and Reeves is going to be the point they pick at, yeah, go to town. Like, bully him, draw the defense, kick it out.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Not against Rui, not against LeBron, because you know LeBron's going to get the benefit of the doubt with the whistle.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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When Hayes is out there, he can play when Vanderbilt is out there. He can play. And I think the Rudy in space thing has been overdone. Like, he can guard Rui or Finney Smith when those five are out there. But the Lakers will go at him. And even if it's not damaging to Minnesota, it's suboptimal enough that you can see them saying, we have other cards to play on this roster. Sure.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Luca, we should talk more about obviously lit up the wolves last year in the playoffs when he was playing for the Dallas Mavericks. Sorry, Dallas fans. If there was an overarching lesson, the Timberwolves took internally from that series and an overarching lesson, the Celtics took watching it. With an eye on the finals, it was the Wolves let Luka off the hook defensively.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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They let him sit there on Jaden McDaniels and say, you know what? Jaden McDaniels just isn't good enough for us to tilt our offense toward him as a screener, as a whatever, just to hunt Luka Doncic. And the Celtics watched that and they're like, now we... every player they play is a better offensive player than Jaden McDaniels, but we don't care where he is.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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We're going after him every single possession. And I expect the wolves to do that more, even if it means pulling Jada McDaniels into ball screens with ant. And if you watch the film of the one game, Luca played against the wolves as a Laker, that's it. The Lakers actually switched Luca onto ant quite willingly, instead of doing the, like, you're going to hedge and we're going to double.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And then you're going to rotate back. They'll mix it up. JJ is really smart. JJ has been thinking about this for a long time. Um, And they've just sort of said, yeah, switch on to him. He might be off the dribble, but we're a really smart, help defensive positional team and we'll at least make his decision-making complicated.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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But I expect them to try to run Luka ragged in this series after not doing it at go time last year.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Moe DeKeele's coming on to talk about the East. And a guy you might know, Bill Simmons, is coming on to talk about the West. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show, because that's what we're calling it now. And we got the podfather on the line to preview the Western Conference playoffs in play. And that's what we were supposed to do. But we got some breaking news.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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That's an interesting subplot to me because the matchup that makes the most sense for Minnesota is Conley on Reeves. That's that looks to be on paper, the only safe place to put my Conley, but it's not a safe place. Austin Reeves will hurt you in a million different ways.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Which is why I wonder if they will sell out to put their three best defensive players on the Lakers big three and just say, Conley, you're guarding Hachimura. I know there's a size disadvantage. We're just going to live with that or play Conley less. And it'd be interesting to see. I think that's what happens.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Yeah, or I'm fascinated by who guards Reeves because I have a good feeling who's going to guard Luka and who's going to guard LeBron. It's going to be a series of the McDaniels, Randall, Ant. Who do they put on Reeves? What priority do they place on? Like, we just can't let this guy get off. We can't make it easier for him to get off. The other thing with Ant is, you know, I mentioned switching.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The wild card with Ant is you talk to coaches and scouts. he's very unpredictable handling hard blitzes. Like sometimes he'll throw the wrong pass or he'll hold the ball too long. And you know, there are some coaches just like we're blitzing them every time because we just don't trust his decision-making.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that's the one, there's still a little bit of that, like not just with Ant, with the whole Wolves team of like, they will go through a five minute period where they just make bad decisions. All they just make decisions that are just beneath them as a team.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And when they had towns, they had the sheer talent and spacing where the decisions were easier and they had a fail safe that they don't quite have now. Like that bucks game. Did you see them play against the bucks a few games ago in a game that was like massively important for them? The bucks wins. That was the game. The bucks were down 24 points in the fourth quarter. Oh, I did see that.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I saw that come back. The bucks went zone. And if you want to see, I mean, literally, this is not an exaggeration. The worst offense and NBA team could plausibly play against his own defense. That was what the wolves, it was like, without Ben Simmons, they, they, they just went haywire for six minutes. And I know the Lakers are not going to go haywire because of who has the ball on their team.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that's, The haywire factor is why if you're going to pick the Lakers, I think that's why I just trust them more because top to bottom, I think this Wolves roster might be a little stronger than the Lakers and has a lot of size and toughness.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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They could definitely beat him. Alexander Walker has actually guarded Luka pretty well, though. I think Luka has enough size where he should be able to solve that. Nas Reed has gotten some chances guarding LeBron. It's just a way to, you know, if that's the matchup that you need to go to to keep Nas Reed on the floor, they've been willing to do it.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It's the navigating pick and roll when you're guarding the ball handler, which Randall just it's just not something that bigs have to do as much. And he's going to have to do it. But I think we'll see some of Randall on Rui and Ant on LeBron, which is going to be super fun because, you know, Ant's going to relish. that moment.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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That was one of my favorite bits of spin from the sun's off season a year ago was when they were like, yeah, second apron. You know, we were going to go in it anyway, so we figured, like, why don't we just go all the way in it and do X, Y, and Z? And everyone got galaxy brain tricked into being like, that sounds smart. Like, that's really smart front officing.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I think this is a very, a very fun series and sort of contrast in styles in a lot of ways. All right, you got to go. I've taken up too much of your time. Did we not get anything you wanted to get to?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It was the perfect amount because that game's going to be awful. Someone has to win. Someone has to win. And whoever plays that team, whoever loses the Warriors-Grizzlies series, I mean, can you imagine if it's the Warriors and they're in that spot, how much pressure they would be under? And again, your prize is the Thunder. But even the Grizzlies, like, do we really want to go out like this?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Like, we're going to lose to Dallas, the remnants of Dallas or the remnants of, sacramento all right bill simmons uh you are at the master i don't need you the bill simmons podcast is whatever it's great to have you aboard zach thank you sir i'll be in touch All right, to preview the Junior Varsity Conference, I am thrilled to bring in one of my favorite guests.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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First time on the Zach Lowe Show, the ZL Show, I don't know what we're calling it. Moe DeKeele, you can find him on Twitch. He's been writing for Bleacher Report and The Athletic and all over the place the last few years. Former video coordinator for the LA Clippers and the San Antonio Spurs. Both very relevant teams in the NBA discourse in the last 20 years. Moe, what's up, my friend?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You know what, Moe? I don't hear those words enough from my loved ones. I missed you. It's really, it's really heartening to hear. It's mostly, did you forget to do this? Why did you forget to do that? How did you lose that thing? Okay. Let's fly through the East and we're going to go play and play in.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And then we'll do the, both the two series that are set New York, Detroit and Milwaukee, Indiana, both juicy, juicy series. But we must get the play-ins out of the way because they are the soonest. And yeah, We're not going to belabor these, okay? These are not juggernaut versus juggernaut, powerhouse versus powerhouse. We will start with the Orlando Magic and the Atlanta Hawks in the 7-8 game.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The winner gets the Celtics. Have fun with that. The loser plays for its life to face the Cleveland Cavaliers. Have fun with that. We should note, Moe, We must start by noting that this is a game featuring the first-place finisher and the runner-up in the glorious, much-hallowed Southeast Division. Congratulations to the Orlando Magic.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You are the 2024-2025 Southeast Division champions with a robust record of 41-41. And I am imploring you, Orlando Magic. I know your history as an organization has been sad since Dwight Howard left. Do not hang this banner. Don't do it. It's embarrassing. You are going to be way above this status to begin with.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And it's like, no, we're just in jail now. I don't think the Durant – the tough thing with the Durant trade is – you kind of have to aim for a win now mood with Booker.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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If Paolo and Franz and the rest of your roster Suggs did not get hurt, you are going to be above this stature next year. This act is going to be beneath you. It's beneath Stuff the Magic Dragon. Don't do it. Don't hang the banner. Okay. Magic Hawks. Two teams very close to each other in the standings. We have a terrible offensive team in the magic. It was 27th on offense elite.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Number two on defense, a net rating of exactly 0.0 for the season. How about that against the Hawks who are a bad defensive team? We know that, but sneakily just 18th, And offense lost jail and Johnson, their second best player and maybe best all around player for most of the season. He ain't coming back. What is the most interesting place to start with this play in game?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And by the way, I thought the most eyeopening quotes coming off their end of season loss or their official elimination was Booker saying something to the effect of, I don't have it in front of me, but what really hurts is that three years ago we were so close and now this is where we are.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Yeah, Dyson Daniels, first-team all-defense for me. Many people's choice for defensive player of the year. Not mine, but a fine, fine defensive player. We'll guard Franz. That would be the primary assignment. Now, an interesting wrinkle there is that Franz will be guarding Trey Young a lot on the other end of the floor.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And if Trey is ever stuck on Franz, can't get out of that cross match, you go right there. You waste no time. You do not pass go. You go right to putting Trey Young in jail. Paolo, without Jalen Johnson, has been a riddle that the Hawks haven't been able to solve. In the last matchup, they guarded him with Onyeka Okongwu, their center, who's had a fantastic year. Made a nice jump this year.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And they put their power forward. Mo Gay and whether they start or play Mo Gay is going to be an interesting subplot here, too, because his lack of shooting really cramps their offense. And they've they toyed with starting the Yang at the end of the season for that reason. And then went back to Mo Gay, who's a much better defense player.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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But anyway, they put a Kongu on Paolo and crossmatched their power forward onto Wendell Carter Jr., And, you know, that didn't really slow down Paolo at all. He's still going to do what he does, which is, where's Trae Young? Trae Young, Trae Young's guarding KCP. Come set a screen for me. Trae Young, you're stuck on Franz. We can do our two-man game with our best players and go from there.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that's basically, other than forcing turnovers, and by the way, both of these teams commit a crap ton of turnovers on offense, and both of them force a crap ton of turnovers on defense. Whoever has the least crappy turnover game on offense is going to have a little small small edge in this battle of the Titans.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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But I mean, that's basically Orlando's offense in a nutshell and a Congo did an okay job. It's just, it's a tricky cross match for him. It's not the kind of defense he's used to playing. And you know, the personnel around him is okay. Research is okay. Trey is what he is. Daniel's is elite. And then off the bench, they bring this interesting trio of, of Niang Terrence man and Karis Levert.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that's been their answer to the power forward riddle. more and more as the season has come down the stretches, just go small. Don't, don't play Nyang. Don't play Mo gay. And sometimes don't even play research. I just played those three wings together. I like research enough that I'm not psyched about just sort of excising him that way and crunch time. But I mean, if Orlando can score enough,

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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you would think that would give them the edge and has given them the edge in this series because we know their defense is going to be stout, barring a Trey explosion. But what else are you watching for here, X's and O's, Wes?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And I read that and I'm like, Oh my God, this guy is very much in tune with the trajectory of this franchise and how all these moves have gone bust. And yeah, He wants to be a son for life. I've heard nothing but that from his camp over the years. I just don't know what the Durant trade is that satisfies his, I'm in my prime, I need to win now.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Yeah, and the Magic can obviously switch almost across the board, and we'll mix in that against Trey, even if they have to switch Wendell Carter onto him. As for their backup lineups, they get even more switchable because they've been leaning more into Isaac at center instead of Batadze.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I do have to say, I saw my friend and colleague Bobby Marks tweet that Jonathan Isaac hit some kind of games played bonus for this year that was quite substantial. Kudos to Jonathan Isaacs agent. I don't know who it is off the top of my head. Cause my takeaway from the season has been, I guess this dude's just never actually going to play.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Like he's just going to like, he's averaging even fewer minutes now he's healthy and he just plays 12 minutes, 18 minutes, six minutes. And he got a bonus. He got, I think it was like $2.6 million. He got a big bonus. The one thing I did notice on Trey, first of all, kudos. I want to bring up Trey real quick. he's getting like no all NBA buzz at all.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And I think he's being a little bit unfairly punished for the fact that the Hawks are just not very good. And again, I think the Hawks would have a much better, they're 40 and 42. I think they'd be three, four games better than that, at least with Jalen Johnson. But Trey Young, 24 a game, 11.6 assists, Yeah, 41% shooting, 34% on threes, 47% on twos.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Those are roughly equivalent shooting-wise to James Harden's numbers, and James Harden's getting much more all-NBA love, and I think that's fair given the Clippers' record versus the Hawks' record and the conferences that they play in, respectively. Both are negatives on defense.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Trey, I think, is still a bigger one, but I'm not going to have Trey on my all-NBA teams, but I can see a Hawks fan saying, wait a second, If Harden's this sort of low efficiency, high volume, elite assist man, negative on defense, and he's going to make third team All-NBA, I don't understand the argument against Trey. And to your point, he deserves some credit for...

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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opening up his pick and roll attack a little bit to like, yeah, I'll work with Dyson Daniels as a screener. I'll work with Risha Shay as a screener earlier in the season, a critical development. I will lean all the way into jail and Johnson and I'll set ball screens for jail and Johnson.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I mentioned two episodes ago, Trey set more ball screens this season in this one season than in his prior combined career, all seasons together. That's not nothing like, like that's not nothing anyway. Um, Just one thing. Orlando did have problems with the last matchup. Trey loves those stagger screens with Niang and a Congo setting that double drag.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And Durant's camp can look at these other teams and say, yeah, it's 51 million next year for me. But look, you got aping problems. Like I'll take a discount going forward. I'll do this. It's still 51 million next year and the rules still are what they are. And the son's level offer of picks and stuff for him is just not, it's not going to be there this summer.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Orlando got confused a little bit in that alignment. Look, if their defense is stout and they get anything off the bench and Anthony Black's been searching for them toward the end of the season, I'd pick them to win this game at home. But who the hell knows? It's a play in game.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Both teams draw a ton of free throws, and both teams hack the crap out of you. Orlando actually hacks the most crap out of everyone in the league. They're dead last in free throw rate allowed. So just, you know, keep an eye on that. Get your fast-forward button ready. Miami, Chicago. The 9-10 game, the winner will face the loser of the 7-8 game.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The loser will go home head hung in shame for not even getting out of the lower bracket of the plate in the East. These are the 20th and 21st ranked offenses in the NBA. However... The Chicago Bulls are 15-5 in their last 20 games, surging, chugging toward the finish line with an offense in that stretch that would rank about fifth or sixth for the season.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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They play at the second fastest pace in the NBA. They fly, baby. They heat. They play at the third or fourth slowest pace in the NBA. The Bulls take a ton of threes. Third most threes in the NBA. The Heat allow a ton of threes on defenses. It's been their custom the last few years. You know, if Chicago gets hot from three... And Josh Giddey is playing the best ball of his career.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He got a little nicked up toward the end of the season. I'm assuming he's going to play. The matchups in this one are really interesting. Who guards Kobe White? Who does Bam guard? Who does Bezelis guard? But the Bulls are undeniably playing much better than the Heat coming into this game. They have this game at home. They present some interesting stylistic sort of challenges for Miami.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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But Miami's Miami. They are both of these teams. Veterans of the play-in. Veterans of the play-in. Grizzled. The Heat, more success in the play-in maybe than the Bulls. When this game tips, what's the number one thing you're watching?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You know what was funny about that? I was watching that game because I'm dialed into the play and prep baby. When that game came on the schedule, they must must watch. That happened in my brain, like didn't even register it as a thing. My brain was like, oh, Tyler here is going to shoot a three. OK, I guess you're going to shoot a three. He missed it. Didn't even like it.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Just like I knew it was a slightly audacious decision, but it was it's now to the point where I was like, oh, I guess this is just what's going to happen.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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let's just dig into the matchups a little bit for people who have not maybe paid attention to these teams, starting with like, who are the starting lineups on these teams? Now the bulls have been starting giddy. Kobe white. Who's just liable to score 35 points. Any game now. Right. Kevin Herter. He now plays for the Chicago bulls for those just tuning in.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Cause the bulls and Kings trade with each other on a semi-annual basis. Like JC Penny has sales. Yeah. Oh, Buzelas has usurped Patrick Williams, the $90 million man, as the starting power forward. And Vooch, still hanging around. It's a powerful offensive lineup. Defensively, we'll see. It's been actually okay lately. Where it gets interesting to me is the Heat.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The Heat's go-to starting five toward the end of the season has been Hero, Alec Burks, Andrew Wiggins, Bam, and Kal-El Ware. Why that's interesting to me is starting with the question of who guards Kobe White. In that group, in the last matchup, it was Wiggins that started on Kobe White with Burks chipping in now and then.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The trickle-down effect was that Bam guarded Josh Giddey because Wiggins was being used on Kobe White. Bam can guard anybody. I just think it's interesting. And Kevin Herter has gotten the Tyler Hero match. I'm sorry. Tyler Hero has guarded Kevin Herter, which is a place that the Bulls are obviously going to try to pick on when they can.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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What's interesting to me is I wouldn't be surprised if Spoh made a one-game adjustment and started Davion Mitchell in this game to guard for Alec Burks, to guard Kobe White so that Wiggins has more flexibility to guard Giddy and Bam can guard Buzellas and maybe test the rookie, maybe Rove a little bit, although Buzellas has been shooting it really well. That's an interesting one to me.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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On the other end of the floor, The question of who does Buzella's guard is central to this game. In the last game, they started him. They were scared to put him on BAM. And so they started him on Kahlil Ware and put Vucevic on BAM. And Kahlil Ware just feasted on the offensive line. He's just too big. Then they switched it up and put Buzelis on Bam and Vucevic on Ware.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And Bam didn't kind of go crazy, but has the potential to go crazy in that matchup. So those are the areas where I'm looking. I think both teams will play a good deal of zone, and have played a good deal of zone against each other. The Heat, obviously the kings of the zone. And both teams are, like, Hero is going to go at...

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Hero is going to go at a herder and the, the bulls are going to go at hero. And I'm interested to see if, if giddy is guarding Wiggins, which it could be the matchup. I think the heat will need a big Wiggins game to, to win this game. Can you, can you exploit that matchup at all? Can you run bam Wiggins inverted pick and rolls, like lean into the versatility of your roster.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Those are, those are some of the things I'm looking at trying to get myself. I actually am kind of psyched for this game.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Vooch is a dropback defender. Tyler Hero is a pull-up shooter. It just could come down to Tyler Hero goes 15 of 25 and just goes bananas on jump shots and the Heat win the game. I never know what to make of these things, Mo. So the two things the Heat do really well on defense. By the way, they finished eighth in defensive efficiency. This is a very good defensive team.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Bam deserves a ton of credit for that. They're fourth in defensive rebounding and third in free throw rate allowed. So they don't foul. Great. They're not giving you any extras, right? That's, that's fantastic. The bulls don't do either of those things. They're 29th and getting to the line and 28th and offensive rebounding. And I can't decide, is that like bizarrely good for the bulls?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Like, like all the, the heat strengths don't match up with our strengths at all. Like that's actually good for us. I never know what to make of those kinds of things. All right, let's go to the real playoffs. Are you ready? Do you have any parting thoughts on this? Are you ready to go to the real playoffs? No, I'm ready to go to the real playoffs. Let's see, where did we clock in there?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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19 minutes, not terrible. We bullshitted around a little bit, so we weren't too terrible. Goodbye, play-in teams. I want to start Knicks-Pistons. The history of Bucks-Pacers is delicious, but I want to start Knicks-Pistons. Good for the Detroit Pistons. Just one of the biggest season-to-season improvements of all time, and they get the Knicks, against whom they went 3-1 in the regular season.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Now, the Knicks had a bunch of players out for some of those games, including Cat in a game that I sat... frighteningly close to James Dolan seats for with a buddy of mine, James Dolan was not at the game. Um, so I saw that.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It's hard, but I don't think they can. Players would have to go to third teams. We've seen it before, obviously.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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If he's like looking at you going like, Hey, you said this band, let's, let's put it this way. I, the, the buddy who was kind enough to invite me, who there are four of us, there was a text thread where I was like, Hey, look, I don't really know the probability of anything like this happening, but I just want to give you a heads up. And, and that's all I'm going to say. Um, nothing happened.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He wasn't at the game. Uh, I find this a fascinating matchup. We get Cade Cunningham's playoff debut. Cade had a great deal of success against the Knicks, lit them up in the regular season, going at Cat in the pick and roll, trying to get Brunson switched on to him before going at Cat in the pick and roll, which is an artful little thing that the Pistons are good at. Made a lot of threes.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Has to take care of the ball. That's been the Cade bugaboo all season. If he's not going to make an all NBA team, he'll be on mine. But I think that would be why it really drags down his efficiency and sort of chips away at what looked like can't miss counting stats. But he's on my third team, all NBA. The Knicks force a decent amount of turnovers. Not, not so many.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I have a place where I want to start in this series, like the puzzle piece of the series. The first thing I'm going to be looking for, but I'm going to let you lead off. Where do you want to go?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Cade also guarded Brunson a fair bit in these games, particularly when Asar Thompson was coming back from the blood clot issue. I suspect Asar will get that assignment to begin with, and boy, is he a monster. But that's one thing I want to give. Cade's not a great defensive player.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He has his on nights and his off nights, his nights where he's a little bit less alert, maybe off the ball, and then nights when he's dialed in. I think he gets a lot of credit. He gets a lot of credit from me for taking on tough assignments throughout the year, Like, being willing to be physical against ball handlers more or less his size.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And just as an example, recently, I watched the first Bucks-Pistons game, the one that was actually important. The Bucks won and clinched the fifth seed. There was a stretch of that game where they assigned Cade to guard Bobby Portis, which is no picnic. Like, Bobby Portis is mean. And...

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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There was a possession where Cade stood him up in the post, they got the stop, and then the bonus of that, which is very much calculated into how they use Cade, is Portis is now stuck on Cade. He can't extricate himself from that assignment. Cade just dribbles up, hits Bobby Portis with one nasty jab step, and pulls up and hits a three in his face when Bobby Portis is falling back a little bit.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Like... That is a massively valuable sequence of events that he deserves a lot of credit for buying in defensively enough to enable it happening. Anyway, that's Cade. Love Cade. Can I tell you where I'm going to start? Yes. Who's guarding Cat? And I was actually surprised –

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The Pistons did not hardly at all do the thing that I would classify as the smart team thing against Cat and the Knicks, which is put a wing or a big power forward on Cat and put your center on Josh Hart. No. They put Jalen Dern on cat more or less permanently. And if that's the case and Jalen Dern's made huge, I am a, I am in the tank for Jalen Dern.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You can, the guys I went to that game with the whole game. I was like, you got to watch this Jalen Dern guy. He's a, if he ever figures it out athletically, he is, I need a big game in that game. I was very happy. And he's, he's got the foot speed and the combination of, I think they want to be physical with cat. I think they want to, they want to hit them a little bit. Now they,

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Talk about a series where foul trouble looms large as a variable. Foul trouble for Jalen Duren and foul trouble for Cat, who until last season's playoff run could simply not stay out of foul trouble in any playoff series against anyone. But he's got the physicality to get under Cat's skin and the foot speed to kind of half hedge on Brunson and get back to Cat before he can pop for three.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Now, if I'm the Knicks and you're giving me that matchup, I am spamming Brunson cat pick and roll. I'm leaning even more into it than I did through the regular season because, and I'm especially going to try to get Tim Hardaway Jr. on Brunson with some pre-screening action leading into that because I just don't think

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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if you really hit him with it over and over again, I don't think Detroit's defense is going to be able to sort of handle just the relentlessness of it. I think they will wobble and break down a little bit, and it will not surprise me at all if by game three of this series, Jalen Dern is guarding Josh Hart here and there. And the Knicks, by the way, Josh Hart is...

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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When that happens, when he gets that assignment, he's setting screens. He's like, you don't want Jalen Dern in the pick and roll? Too bad. He's come with me. You want to switch him out on the way? We know how to counter that. I'm crashing the offensive glass if you ignore me because your center's on me. So they know how to do that. But that's where I'm starting.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And if Dern is indeed on cat, the Knicks need to just win that matchup. And if they win that matchup, I think they should win the series.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You've seen a couple of teams flirt with using Ananobi. And I think the idea is you'll see coaches try to play chess and just think, yeah, Ananobi is a better all around offensive player than heart. He's a better shooter than heart. In theory, he's not the place for this assignment. But maybe we can sort of tempt the Knicks into overdoing the Ananobi factor and get them out of rhythm.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It hasn't worked, but I agree with you. There's just not a lot of great options here for the Pistons against an elite. I mean, this is the fifth best offensive team in the NBA. By the way, and for all the Knicks defense crap, like, oh, bad season, they finished 13th. Like, they're not a bad defensive team.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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When they've inverted matchups like that, he has gone into beast mode. Like, I will take you to the post. I will roll hard to the rim and unlock that part of my game. I'm just going to beast you inside. He has had an absolutely magnificent all-around offensive season.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I mean, to boil it down even simpler than that, Even though the Knicks were a mediocre defense this season, I'm not sure the Pistons offense has enough juice to keep up in this series. You're telling me there's a lot of upset buzz for the Pistons. That's cool. The Pistons have had a great year. I am picking the Knicks to win this series, and I'm not really thinking that hard about it.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Now, I know they have not looked awesome since Brunson's return. I'm just chalking that up to late season malaise, getting him back in rhythm. I think they're going to be fine. They're getting a week off now. I just think offensively this team is monstrously talented. They know how to attack the Pistons. I think they're going to score fine. Now the Pistons know how to attack them too.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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You're going to see a lot of Cade, Tim Hardaway pick and rolls to try and get Brunson involved. And the Knicks, for the most part, have tried to have Brunson hedge and get back to Hardaway Jr. instead of switching him onto Cade. You know, I get why. What that does, though, is unlock Detroit's kick-around game where they start moving the ball. They put two on Cade.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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They move the ball around for an open three. they've toyed with, Hey, maybe we should try switching Brunson. We don't want to do too much. You won't want him to get banged up and tired out, but we have all these rangy wigs wings around him to sort of cover space and, and shade toward him and help him out. And, and in the meantime, we don't give the Pistons to on the ball.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Yeah, I mean, he shut that window pretty hard, but windows tend to get reopened when situations are narrow and the money is where it might be. Houston's going to be fascinating to watch in the playoffs, and if they do decide to make a big move in the offseason, is that even a move? And there will be other teams. Better question.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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We don't give them the thing that triggers their passing game. I'd like to see some, some of that from the Knicks, a couple of interesting things. Yeah. The Pistons, similar to Bulls Heat, the Pistons foul everybody, and the Knicks do not get to the line. The Knicks bizarrely get no free throws.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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If that changes at all in this series because of Detroit's handsiness and the Ron Holland, Isaiah Stewart will beat the crap out of you every game philosophy, that could swing it. Nick's offense, fourth most shots at the rim. Detroit's defense, fifth fewest attempts at the rim. That's a sort of strength versus strength battle that's really interesting.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And I think part of Detroit's path to an upset is they've got to migrate some of those shots to the mid-range because the Knicks don't take a lot of threes either. I think they're 28th or 27th. and three-point rate. And they're going to go at Cat.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And the more they give Cat stuff to do before the pick-and-roll, like hit him with a screen on the way up and a screen-to-screener action, use some misdirection, I think... the more effective that gets. Ironically, Tibbs never does it. I do wonder if there's a point in this series where they put Cat on a Sar Thompson and try to switch more on the pick and roll by putting Hart or Ananobi on Durin.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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That risks Durin playing some big boy ball on the offensive glass. He's a monster athlete, all that. They do that when they play their two bigs together, the Knicks. They'll put one of them on Asar Thompson or Ron Holland or one of those guys and the other on Dern when they play Cat and Achua or the wild card everyone's waiting on, Cat and Mitchell Robinson.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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So it's not like that tool is foreign to them. But, you know, interesting wrinkles. The K-Dennis-Schroeder combo has been effective for the Pistons as a sort of double point guard look. I just... To me, this centers on... you know, sort of on Detroit's offense.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And just one last thing, the Knicks allow very few threes and Detroit takes very few threes, which could be good for Detroit, bad for Detroit, depending on how you want to spin it. I'm just not sure they have enough juice offensively. Maybe they'll prove me wrong. Anything else on this series before we move to the Heartland battle?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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If I were a GM, I would just – I would be like – I would be so tempted to give Balik Beasley an insane contract because I just like him so much as a player. I loved that when Giannis hit him with the shimmy, Giannis blocked his potential game-winning – I can't remember game-winning, game-tying three. And he hit him with the shimmy like three times. Yeah.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He hit him with the shimmy when Malik Beasley was on the floor. He hit him with the shimmy when he tried to help Malik Beasley up. And then he hit him with the shimmy when he was backing away from Malik Beasley. Then he tried to shake Malik Beasley's hand like, oh, former teammate, what's up, man? And Malik Beasley was like, get that hand out of my freaking face, man. And I slapped it away.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I loved every bit of that. Get out of here with your clownishness, Giannis. Get out of here. I'm Malik Beasley. I'm the three-point champion. OK, speaking of Milly Giannis Pacers Bucks, a lot of history between these two teams from the play in last season when Halliburton gave the Dame time sign.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I know you're excited to get to Bill Simmons live from the man cave with the Boston stuff in the background. How you doing?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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One of my favorite I'm using your against you moments and a first round playoff series last year that was marred by injuries to both Dame and Giannis that Indiana won in Indiana ended up going to the conference finals.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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How did you forget Ballgate? How did Ball... It was... It was... Wait, what... It was Oscar Kishibui's first points.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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That was, I remember that there was an extensive investigation and I even called, like, I actually embarrassingly had to call Rick Carlisle, like Rick Carlisle, hall of fame coach, Rick Carlisle, head of the coaches association, Rick Carlisle suffers no fools or foolishness. Rick Carlisle, like, we'll just hang up on your ass. If he thinks your question is stupid and be like, Hey man,

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Stein and I talked about Dallas. You know, I saw I think Perk went on and said, you know, the only way Nico Harrison can save his job is getting Durant. And that buzz has been out there. And I've heard that, like, it's again like Dallas. It's three fifty million dollar contracts and you've got to aggregate a million players to get to it. Like, I'm not really sure. We'll see.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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So the ball, like any idea where the real game ball went? And I don't remember the answer. And I was not my finest moment as a capital J journalist. Don't remember what Rick Carlisle said to me. Anyway, obviously, look, the. we don't know if Dame is going to play as he recovers from his blood clot issue.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And as boring as it is, like, I think the analysis has to start there and almost end there because if Dame doesn't play and they start Ryan Rollins has been fine. Like Ryan Rollins has been good for the bucks. They have poured us back. They're playing Giannis at center more often, which I think is healthy for their team.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And one of the reasons that they got Kuzma to sort of unlock more of those lineups is I just don't think they can win without Dame. I don't think they can beat the Pacers four times without Dame, as amazing as Giannis is, as incredible as a season he's had. I don't know whether we should posit he plays or he doesn't play. It's noon Eastern on Monday right now. We may know more later in the day.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Right now, we don't. You can go either way on this. But, you know, I prepped as if he was going to play just for optimism and all of that. Where are you going to start with your analysis of this one?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Um, let's start with Pacers offense, which is, you know, one of the elite offenses in the league, obviously, um, Torian Prince has gotten the Halliburton assignment quite a bit. Giannis has guarded Siakam quite a bit. And they have shown the Bucks that they will switch the Halliburton-Siakam two-man game.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I don't think the Pacers have leaned in enough to posting up Siakam when they get that switch. I think you can do a lot of damage there. The other major question, and we've seen the Bucs go back and forth on this, including back and forth within last year's playoff series, is who does Brooke Lopez guard? They actually started the series last year with Brooke Lopez on Siakam.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I think theorizing, as other teams had, the Sixers used to do this with Embiid, He's more of an interior player. Let's put Lopez on him and try to snuff out the miles Turner pick and pop threes by putting a faster player on miles Turner. They flip that back halfway through the series because it does unlock the Halliburton Siakam two man game in a little bit more easily.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He can roll, he can get into the pocket Siakam can. So that that's an interesting one to me. And obviously if he guards Turner, which he's done mostly this season, they put him on miles Turner. you know, a lot of possessions are going to start with the most, you know, I think that was the number one pick and roll combination in the league, Halliburton Turner.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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So those are some places where I think the Pacers will look to attack. And there's some interesting matchups that are exploitable there. Both teams have played a lot of zone against each other, which is interesting. When the Pacers have the ball, what else is interesting to you?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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It's when the other guys come in, Neesmith making plays, you know, it's, it's when he's there, he's their second guy on Giannis, you know, Siakam will get mostly the assignment to start, but Neesmith has guarded him too.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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They have three they can trade because they got that Lakers pick in the Luka trade. Well, it's so clutch to get that Lakers pick. They really rung a lot. Yeah, he's only about to hit his prime. It'll be great to have that one. All right. I don't want to spend too much time on the also rants. We should just talk about the Pelicans who fired David Griffin today.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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They obviously have the best card in the series. And that's Giannis. Siakam is going to start off guarding on his needs, misguarded him a little bit. Toppins actually dabbled in it a little bit. I don't really trust that. And the Pacers are going much more frequently now with no traditional backup center with the top in Siakam. Wouldn't shock me. Caitlin Cooper hit this in her newsletter today.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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If Jairus Walker has a role in this series and in those lineups, his skill set kind of matches. I think the Bucks pretty well. Halliburton is the weak link, right? Like we know that defensively they're going to hide them on Prince. But look, I mean, if Dame plays, they're going to hide them on Prince. If Dame doesn't play, they have a lot more flexibility of where to put him.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Nem heart has gotten the Dame assignment. And they, it's, it's an interesting thing because to hunt Halliburton, they've really used story and Prince a lot on offense in this matchup. They've had them curl around pin downs from Giannis, you know, empty the left side of the floor, have them effectively run a pick and roll with Giannis. And that's great. It works.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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If you can get Giannis rolling to the rim, that's death for most defenses. Yeah. I do think they've gotten in watching. I was like, they've gotten a little in, in obsessing with Halliburton. They've gotten a little bit away from the Dame Giannis two man game. It's not like Nem heart can switch on to Giannis. He can't. And actually I checked the second spectrum for the season.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

7000.962

Dame Giannis, 21 pick and rolls per 100 possessions. against the Pacers that dropped down to 11 and a half per 100 possessions. I think they got away from it a little too willingly as like their number one go-to offensive play. Um, They love the Giannis Lopez pick and roll is another one they love.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The Pacers, rather, have shown an inclination to switch that if Siakam gets hung up on a screen, and they have the personnel to do that. Indiana also was the number one transition defense in the league this year in terms of frequency of possessions, and the Bucs need to get out and run. So it's interesting.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

7037.309

It's just sort of it sucks that we don't know Dame's health status because with him, I think this is a toss-up. and I probably pick Indiana anyway. I just think they're deeper and more together. The Kuzma thing has not been great. I mean, he's fine, but it hasn't really changed their team without Dame. It's, it's a very strong Indiana, you know, four, two max pick for me.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

707.337

I said last week, this is the toughest riddle in the NBA that now a new person will have to solve is like, what the hell are you supposed to do as. the GM of the Pelicans. Now the lottery may just answer that riddle for you. And boy, would that be a dose of good luck for a team that already got a dose of good luck getting Zion all those years ago. Now Zion doesn't play enough.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

7164.965

one thing Giannis has to do is get to the line a lot and make his free throws because that's one clear statistical edge the Bucks have. The rebounding thing is very interesting and I think tilts Pacers. Bucks are an incredible defensive rebounding team. The Pacers are 29th in offensive rebounding. They just simply don't care. So Bucks, great. You get all the defensive rebounds.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

7190.382

Um, the, uh, the bucks don't force a lot of turnovers. That's a doc thing. And the Pacers are, have the third lowest turnover rate. So they figured like step one, get a shot up. That's if the Pacers get even more shots up than usual, because you don't turn them over at all. Good for the Pacers. Um, and let's see what else we got here. Rebounding wise. Um,

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

7210.848

the bucks are dead last in offensive rebounding. And the Pacers can be a little bit vulnerable on the defensive glass. And so that, you know, we'll see if, if the bucks amp that up a little bit. All right. Mode to kill. I always tell people, if you want to know what's going on in the games, this is the guy to follow. Where can they follow you coming up in the first round?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Look at that. Just on the ball with your promos, Mo. You're the best. It's great to see you. I'll talk to you soon. All right. Thank you for having me. All right. Hope you guys enjoyed that. We'll be back later in the week. Once we sift through the remnants of the first play in games, look ahead to a couple other matchups that will materialize by then. It's a great time to be an NBA fan.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Obviously we know that you have like 30 games a year. That's great. You have C.J. McCollum, who just doesn't fit this timeline, is just here for some reason earning $35 to $40 million and getting mad at you for putting him in fake trades. Sorry, C.J. You've got DeJounte Murray, who is going to miss a huge part of next season, presumably, you know, after his injury.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And that's a veteran win-now player. You have Trey Murphy, who made a huge leap this year. He's awesome. And Herb Jones on the wing, who are just perfect complementary players for whatever direction you go to.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

767.591

You got an in his prime superstar who doesn't play. So I don't know what he is. And your other sort of timetable matching star that you had, you offloaded to the Raptors for what's going to amount to one crappy Pacers first round pick. Every part of this roster is pointing in different team building directions.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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And the one part that's pointing squarely in a win now team building direction is the most unreliable health risk outside of Philadelphia in the NBA. I just don't even know other than, oh, my God, we got a top three pick in the draft. Oh, my God, we got Cooper Flagg, whoever it ends up being. I don't even know what you're whoever takes this job. What are you supposed to do?

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

876.98

every like they've had like seven of them so you know but the team collectively doesn't make sense i didn't understand the mccollum extension i just didn't and they well and again they from a value perspective they did well in the ad trades and the drew holiday trade so those are easy kind of trades to do easier kind of trades to really nail because you're selling and someone is very hungry to buy and you have a lever you have some leverage and

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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The other one that didn't work out was as part of that AD trade, they got the Lakers pick that you remember was DeAndre Hunter at four. They flipped that one for Alexander Walker and Hayes, who are now contributing to other teams, but not them. It's just a strange situation.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

92.091

Oh, there's always something we're not expecting. Okay, quick take on Bud getting fired after one of the three disaster seasons from hell in this year's NBA. Remarkably, one of them, the Mavericks season, is still going.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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I don't know who you blame for all the injuries that are constantly befalling that team. Cause they've changed out members of the training staff, like multiple times now under Griffin's leadership. And so like, I don't know, it's like, I don't know what to do with it, but just everyone's hurt all the time. And by the way, DeJounte Murray wasn't even very good for them this year when he was healthy.

The Zach Lowe Show

Zach’s Mega-Playoff Preview! Reaction to Breaking News, Plus All the Action Out West With Bill Simmons, and Eastern Previews With Mo Dakhil.

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He never really found his sea legs with them. I think if you're going to be critical,

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I mean, we've been talking about this for how many years? 15 years. It should be a 70-game season max. I think basketball is just harder to play than it used to be. And watching these guys break down over and over again, even though they have better equipment, better conditioning, better training, better dieting, everything, they shouldn't be getting hurt more.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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They should be getting hurt less, right? We've never seen this many Achilles injuries ever. It's a lot of lower leg stuff. I think...

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Yeah, and as somebody who watched this whole Celtics season, Tatum just got pounded all year. And part of it is he's this incredibly durable 6'9 guy who can guard three, four positions, who's the best rebounder on the team, who goes to the basket over and over again, who takes big hits. But he took a big punishment, and he had a big, big, big burden.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Day after day after day, no different than Giannis, no different than LeBron and some of these other guys that we always feel like are superhuman until they go down and get hurt. But yeah, listen, I don't think they're ever going to care. I think Greed's always going to win out.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Getting those extra 12 games during the season and the six home gates and all that, they're just always going to pick that.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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83-game season. But if Adam Silver really wanted to make a difference, improve the quality of the league, improve the sport, he would make the season shorter and he would fight for it and he would get these guys to buy into it. And look at the Celtics right now. Okay, you got the six extra games during the season because we have 82, but now you're not in round three or round four.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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You just lost $150 million in playoff revenue or whatever it is. It's like 15 million a game for them because your best guy went down. So I think they should think about it. The injuries are alarming. I saw that stat too, and it backed up what you and I have been noticing and talking about. The only two guys, really the only guy that hasn't been hurt is LeBron. Even Giannis.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Giannis has gotten hurt. He got knocked out of two playoffs, right? But he still seems like he's superhuman. But Dwight Howard, Kobe went down finally, and he blew out his Achilles later in his career. But Duncan, go through 21st century, everybody went down. Yeah, I think they have to look at it. I don't think they'll fix it, though.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

1269.91

So he's just hoping they fall to seven and he gets the pick.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

1298.123

Yeah, go. So, when do you realize... Cause they do, it's four numbers, right? Yeah.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

1311.566

Right. So they do the first like number. And then you are you can you follow in real time the combinations or you're just being told what's happening?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

1361.333

So 10, 10 and 14 means the lottery is officially drunk already with two balls left.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

153.082

Yeah, that was the best two-way game I think I'd ever seen him play up until the point he got hurt. Yeah, I woke up at 5.30 this morning, checked the phone to see if there was any news. We still don't know, but I think we're like 99.9% sure it was a torn Achilles. That's definitely the vibes coming out. They lost the game before it happened. I mean, that's a whole separate conversation.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Yeah, I agree with that. We talked about it last night because there's two ways to go, right? You could say, all right, we'll take Harper. We'll grow together with this little young nucleus we have and see where it is two years from now. Or you say, fuck it. Let's go. Let's go for this now. We could have Giannis and Wemby and Darren Fox and Castle. Let's see what happens.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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No, I know he was there. Was it too big of an emotional swing? Would you have been able to be around other people? I feel like I just would have stayed home in a dark room.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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But the big picture Tatum thing to me, I was looking, like he had to be one of the three most durable stars of this century, right? LeBron, Giannis, and Tatum. And when you think about how he looked athletically and physically just yesterday, he was all over the place and really at the peak of his powers. Now the question with an Achilles is, You know, a lot of times it happens to older players.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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tense, I would say. Like he just had his cold removed?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Do you like doing for four instead of three with the lottery boss? Like that somebody can get knocked backwards that many spots? Although I guess it would have happened anyway.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I don't think Clay was ever really the same athletically.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Didn't discourage tanking. I like the rules this way more because as you know, I hate rewarding incompetence, which is where we were for years and years and years where, you know, Philly broke it in the 2010s with how they handled stuff. But, you know, if you're going to do it, go back to the old way.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I then think you have to change the rules a little bit so you can't win the lottery twice in a row or you can't be in the top two two years in a row. And, you know, you got to add wrinkles that make it so that you can't be bad for like three years in a row. But I didn't mind what happened yesterday, to be honest. this is what they voted for.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

206.546

Right. Boogie Cousins, center, never the same. Kobe happened way later in his career. We don't know with Kyrie yet, but you go down the line. Aaron Rodgers last year didn't look right, but they're catching it. You know, they're basically you punt on next season with him. you don't try to rush them back, I think for any reason.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Well, the bigger issue is there's so much talent in this league now that even if you tank for a couple years and you end up in a situation like, wait, just happened to Utah. How many years did they throw away now? Three or two? I can't remember.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

2114.535

And now they have nothing at all to show for it. And you're also in the West where you still have the worst roster in the West. You know, so... I don't know. I mean, if you're just looking at this, if we're writing this in a professional wrestling standpoint, flag going to the Mavericks is hilarious. It was the funniest outcome.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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The best basketball outcome would have been San Antonio to watch him with Wemby. But... I don't know. I don't feel bad for some of these teams because they disgraced the sport of basketball for two and a half months. This is kind of how it goes. And it didn't work out for the Celtics in 07. I mean, we've had all these teams that didn't work out for Charlotte in 2012.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

2158.52

What did they go, like 5-45 or whatever that lottery was?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

2167.246

Yeah, that might have been it. So it's not like this has not happened before. I'm OK with the lottery ad. So I can't tell. Are you for it or against it?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I tend to I tend to the Philly stuff was the funniest. Yeah, I mean... That was... I mean, I don't even... They made up injuries I'd never even heard of before. And then they're like, here's Adam Bona. He's going to be playing 48 minutes a game now.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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And you just try to, you basically punt on next season, which basically puts them in the same position. The Patriots were in, in 2008, where, um, this is an all time traumatizing injury. You lose the season and you hope the guy comes back.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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The bigger issue to me is where the league stands right now with talent. If Tatum's out for a year and Giannis goes to the West, right? Let's say Giannis does get traded to San Antonio. And just look at the East compared to the West. This was the standings this year. Cleveland, we have no idea what's going to happen to them next year. The Celtics, the Knicks, they'll be good. Indiana, sure.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

2337.81

Milwaukee, in flux. Detroit, okay. maybe one guy away from being interesting, Orlando, the same. And then we go Atlanta, Chicago, Miami, Toronto, Brooklyn, Philly, Charlotte, Washington. None of those teams are going to be good for the next two, three years, except maybe Philly. And then you go to the West and it's like, it's a freaking murderer's row.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Like if you're golden state right now, and there was like, this is the last dance with, with our guys. Like it really is the last dance. You have no way out of this now. And you're in the West with, you know, eight, nine awesome teams. I, the one thing there was some, I was bouncing around today. I was watching ESPN.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I was reading different websites and people were wondering about like, could Dallas trade flag for Giannis, which we talked about last night when we did our thing. I was thinking about it today.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Yeah. I think that would be really stupid by Dallas.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Yeah, it's just like you're basically adding 12 years to an asset. You're buying into somebody who's already put together this seven, eight year run who I don't know where it's going to go the next five, but he's got some miles on him versus like you're buying in a flag. He's still 18. who can fit in with the roster you have now because he's so good defensively, he can play small forward.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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The only thing I would ever have a meeting for if I'm them is if San Antonio basically offered to overpay for the flip.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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How many picks are we talking about? Do you want to go all of our picks? Two-thirds of them? Let's at least have the conversation. But I just think Dallas is going to take them. And I don't think there's... I just don't think there's a trade that would make sense, especially like Dallas doesn't have their picks from 27 on. Davis is 32.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Kyrie's coming back from his injury, but you figure this allows them to thread the needle both ways.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Also, it's hope for a fan base that either gave up on the team and moved on to somebody else or is so mad at them. Now they have something to hold on to. And I don't think you give that up.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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So if Orlando dangled them fronds for Paul George in number three, you're hanging up?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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What do you mean? Franz, his contract kicked in. That's like a contract match, isn't it?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Yeah, it's somewhere around that class of... That's not bad. ...of player. I think Philly keeps the pick and I think they take Edgecombe. I have no inside info. I just... Having known Daryl for 20 years, Edgecombe seems like... one of their type of guys, but it's a weird one because you could also say it makes way more sense just to have Max and McCain, this number three pick and just go young.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Right. But they can't because they have this and beat extension that they just gave out that nobody's going to want. And then Paul George for three more years. So kind of threaded the needle, uh, both ways. I wonder that's a, that's maybe that another possibility is they could trade back. dump a contract, still keep some sort of asset. But yeah, it's a weird one.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Who do you think are the best players that might actually be available in June? other than Giannis, who I'm still not convinced is gonna be available. I said this on my pod yesterday, I still didn't really fully understand that story, where it's like Giannis is now open-minded about maybe, I would assume every star is open-minded every off-season. He didn't ask for a trade.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Until he asked for a trade, it's a non-story to me.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Two years ago, he was on the cliff with a bathing suit on, ready to make the jump.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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interest on your level someone with the Rockets uh there's there's a little bit of I'm interested to see how aggressive Detroit gets this summer if you're talking about a team that's kind of here and maybe wants to go here Durant's the obvious one right I mean yeah yeah uh Booker the Suns keep insisting no no no okay is there a Jaron Jackson maybe

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Is there something with San Antonio Memphis that wouldn't shock you?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Jaron Jackson, the number two, a whole bunch of things. My guess is that I think they keep Jaron Jackson. And then OKC is another one. If for some reason they fall short, they don't win. They have all these picks. They're not close enough for whatever reason. Do they get a little more aggressive? I mean, Presti's won one finals game.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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It's going to go down in history as the greatest GM who never actually won a title or came close.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I'm just saying, like, at some point, when do you cash in those chips? What are you going to do with them?

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Thanks for asking. I would try to build around my three and try to upgrade around and maybe solve the issue that they seem to have now where they have seven guys for five spots at the end of games. which can be a great problem to have, or watching game four and they end up winning, but it was kind of tough to keep Wallace off the court. He was really good that game.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Also, Lou Dort was off the court. He could make a three, but maybe you try to... cash in and get somebody awesome from those spots. I don't know. It hasn't been Presti's thing. Presti's always been about asset accumulation and never really panicking. The only time he really got a little gamey was that last Durant year. That was when he started.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Right. Well, I, you know, and then you go big picture, you'd think how much, I don't want to say luck, but how fortunate the last eight years were with the Celtics run. Right. Or even you go back the year before they got Tatum with the Isaiah Thomas year, all the way through to this year where, you know, they're competitive pretty much every year. Tatum's in the league eight years.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I remember he started making some moves, started taking some swings. But yeah, I'm with you. I think this OKC Denver series goes seven. The Celtics, I think it's going to be so hard for them even to win game five with basically a five-man team.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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All the offense running through Jalen Brown, which if you've ever watched the first three minutes of the second and fourth quarters, can be an absolute rollercoaster ride. My dad calls them the Brown minutes. Um, but you know, you think like the Knicks, that series can be done in five. Indiana feels like it's going to be done either in game five or game six.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Although they're like seven and a half point underdogs today. I was surprised by that. Minnesota seems like a wrap and okay. See, Denver seems like it's our one chance to have a long series. We didn't talk about the Minnesota. Um, are you, are you buying, um, Are you buying what we're seeing here with them? Because this is the best they've looked all year.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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They're either favored to win the title or one of the favorites, I think for six of the eight, the Hayward injury was bad luck. Um, and then this year they seem like at least the favorites to get out of the East. Now, now this feels like the, uh, Oh nine Celtics a little bit. Although this, I guess would be the Oh nine Celtics season where it's like, we could have gone back to back. Didn't happen.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Minnesota loves to play with their food and rise and fall with the level of competition. And they're up 3-1 in the series. And they're like, oh, we just need to show up. They have seemed immature at times, right? Like the Game 2 Lakers series I went to.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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they just kind of no-showed the first half and it was weird and then Edwards like slowly got into the game but that would be the one outcome and then just trying to drag it back for game six I don't see it though OKC Denver is the series left and I hate to sound like I'm throwing the white flag on the Celtics, but when you think no-houser, Tatum's out, who does everything.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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There's no silver linings in this Tatum thing, but at least people will finally understand how much he did for the team game to game when they don't see it for 40 minutes out of the 48. The way Porzingis is playing, I just don't see any scenario where they win a game the rest of the series unless the Knicks just shoot like 20% from three. That's it. The Knicks would have to just have a brick fest.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Um, you know what I noticed last night that I noticed in game three, two, even though they, Nick's got killed, but Brunson fights so hard when he gets hunted. Um, Um, and he uses some of the playoff physicality to his advantage. Like he's just like, he's throwing the elbows and the guys, but he's turned it that it's not a walk in the park just to be like, Oh, I got switched on a Brunson.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I'm going to torch this guy. He really fights that whole team fights. Um, and I think the Tatum injury, um, kind of overshadowed what an awesome game that was for the Knicks. Like they really, really, really showed up. There was multiple points in the first half where it seemed like the Celtics could blow that lead out to 20, which has been every game of the series.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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They hung around, hung around, hung around, and then really came back hard. And I don't know what happened in the Celtics defense in the second half, but the Knicks just played better. Unquestionably, they've been the, even though it's weird to say this, because I felt like the Celtics could have swept the series. The Knicks have been the better team.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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The whole point is when you have to raise a level when it matters, they've done it in three of the four games. The Celtics didn't.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I was so mad the first two games that he didn't play more. And then in game three, he played a ton. And then I was mad that ESPN didn't notice it for an hour and a half before they finally, when he had like 20 points, they're like, oh, Pritchard. But he was the key to the first half of that game. And then in game four, he didn't even come into the three-minute mark, which I thought was weird.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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And to play the double big lineup over just playing Pritchard like 35 minutes a game, I just don't get it. I don't understand why they played it that way. I also don't understand why Torrey Craig couldn't have played four minutes in this series. That was a weird one to me, too, when Porzingis looked the way he looked.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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You know, basically all Porzingis was bringing to the table was being able to put his hands up and be in seven foot three. Which he can't shoot anymore, but he can't shoot. They were just leaving him open by game four. They weren't even guarding him.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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What does this look like now? The Celtics came back. They made the finals in 2010. This is a younger team. But it's hard not to think, you know, there's two things going on here. One is like, oh, fuck, is Tatum ever going to be the same? And then the other thing is, what do you do with the Celtics short term and long term now?

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Also, they got away from the Drew post-ups, which I thought were really effective. They stopped doing the things that the Knicks don't want them to do. Drew post-ups, Pritchard in space against the Knicks bigs. You know, just like basic stuff that was working. It's like their brain breaks when they start losing a lead.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Like Tatum, before he got hurt, he took like that 30-footer when it was a three- or a five-point game. It was like 20 seconds in the shot clock, and he just jacked one up. It was like the whole team was just panicking, which is weird. They won the title last year, Zach. Yeah.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Well, and also this team that sells... This team that sells for six point whatever billion dollars that it ends up being once the bully tax goes in. And from two months later now, the best guy on the team whose five-year contract is kicking in is going to be out for the first year of the deal. And you have all these dramatic decisions to make. Pretty tough spot for a new owner.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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But listen, the Celtics have been incredibly fortunate really since the KG trade. when you think like they won two titles, probably could have won a second one with KG. I think they should have. The over was like one and a half. I think the over under with this Tatum era, at least at this point was at least one and a half.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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They're under that, but they still, you know, the Brooklyn trade was amazing. The Tatum Brown thing, getting Derek White, they made so many good moves and they played a lot of this perfectly. And now you end up with one title. Now you're looking at where are we going for the next couple of years? It's just weird that this is now uncertain.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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This felt like the most certain situation, at least in the East. And now it's uncertain. Unbelievable.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Because I was going through, I mean, people have gone through these numbers, but they're starting five just for next year is 188 million. That includes Tatum. The top nine with Alan Cornett, who are both free agents, 205 plus the two free agents. Second apron is 207.8. They're going to be way over that. Their salary is going to be in the high 220s.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I'm going to I'm doing a pod tomorrow night and I was going to do a fourth one later in the week. But I think I think after tomorrow night, I might throw the white towel.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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It's been that kind of week. All right. Thank you, sir. All right. Thanks, Zach.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Repeater tax, tax bill, all of it. And it's just hard to fathom that they're not going to make some moves. And it's going to be Drew and White and KP, one or two of those three, I would assume would be the guys they trade.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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But they have their next two first. Yeah, their next two. For some reason in my head, I didn't think they had their 26, but they do, and they have their 27. So if they were going to do... I don't think that, I wouldn't say tanking, but I don't think a rebuild is as crazy as what you laid out.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Well, so that's the other one. And I don't want that to happen because I want Tatum and Brown to play their whole careers together. But Brown would be the other piece. KP is an expiring free agent, 30.7%. Drew's got three years left and White's got four years left. So I think Drew and KP would be the two. Hauser makes 10 next year. He's another one that could potentially go.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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But, you know, they have players that people are going to want if they're trying to win a title. The problem with some of these trades, though, is you still have to take back contracts to make the trades work, right? So there's only, I was, I ironically was looking at this a couple, a few days ago to figure out I was starting to do the prep for the summer.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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There's a couple like Duncan Robinson type contracts where you can waive it before June 29th. Van Vliet has one now where you can waive him before you don't have to guarantee the contract before June 29th. And so you can basically trade it, trade for it and then dump it. But man, I just can't believe when you think where the Celtics were 10 days ago,

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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to where we were this morning, Googling Achilles injuries, Googling tax stuff. I had some dark Google searches today, Zach, including like Timberland boots and Achilles injuries. Oh God. That's how bad it got for me.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Yeah, it's, I, there's a whole separate conversation about game four. What happened? It's tough to think about because of how badly the Tatum thing ended, but holy mackerel. I thought Missoula in the second half. The Knicks shot 30 for 45 in the second half. They made 67% of their shots.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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The Knicks in the first halves of the four games, 41, 38.6, 39.5, 42.6. They made a bunch of threes in the second half of game one. Game two, they shot 48. But I mean, that was really the first great shooting half they've had. But the Celtics defense played a huge part of it. Like they lost Brunson over and over again in the third quarter.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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The Porzingis, did you see the defensive ratings for Porzingis and Al Horford together? They played 14 minutes. They had 140 defensive rating per 100 possessions. And I'm with you. Him not playing Pritchard enough in this series is the reason they're down 3-1.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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That's the biggest mistake they've made. The Knicks can't match up with them. I felt like I was losing my mind.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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But anyway, that's... We shouldn't gloss over how great Brunson was in that game. He was 11-13 in the second half. He made every big shot. And he basically took this Tatum game that was threatening to become... Not only one of the greatest games of his career, but the greatest game of his career. And he started matching the points.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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And then it became the Knicks' best five versus the Celtics' best five. And the Celtics' best five, you take out Hauser. They're not playing Pritchard. Porzingis is a disaster. Al Horford on one day rest. He was luggage again. That's another reason I was worried about Estre's game. When, you know, Al Horford's 39. He just doesn't have the same bounce. And they just... The Knicks have just...

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I don't feel like they've stolen this series. They've come through in these fourth quarters now three of the four times. That's the whole point of basketball. The Celtics were going to lose this game anyway. I don't know what happened to Jalen Brown yesterday. And the irony of Tatum getting hurt in that play where Jalen just fumble fingered the pass. But that was the whole game for him.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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He just seemed out of sorts for two hours. They just weren't good enough. And when you think you're defending the title with the success that this team has had,

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I have no idea what happened to KP in this entire playoffs.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Yeah, supposedly he battled anemia in the past. I don't know. I just don't fully understand it. And then they got Drew Holiday. And he's one of the best defensive guards of this century. And it just didn't seem like he could stay in front of Brunson. And Brunson was the best guy in the series for these four games.

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Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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So, you know, even you remove the Tatum injury out of it, Brunson outplayed the best guy in the Celtics until the guy got hurt.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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I will say this, though. I think the Pacers are really good. Oh, for sure. The Knicks have the second-best odds to... make the finals now. To me, that's a 50-50 series. I think the Pacers love playing the Knicks. They have a deeper team. They're going to pressure the Knicks. They're going to pressure Brunson. They're just going to throw guards at him 94 feet.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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We've seen them be really comfortable against the Knicks. I think that's going to be a really good series.

The Zach Lowe Show

Inside the Drawing Room, Lottery Reactions, and Heartbreak for Boston With Bill Simmons

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Knicks-OKC would be weird. With Hartstein coming back against his old team. I think every combination now is weird. Minnesota next. Minnesota-Indiana would be, I think, the smallest market series we've had since, what, San Antonio-Cleveland? Oof.